Did OpenBD Replace the Free BlueDragon Server?
I no longer see the free BlueDragon Server on New Atlanta's site. Did Open BlueDragon basically replace it? Certainly seems like a different beast. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:314865 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Did OpenBD Replace the Free BlueDragon Server?
I would assume it did but I am concerned about the later comment. I read it with a negative connotation and I am curious how is it a different beast? Adam On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Dan LeGate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I no longer see the free BlueDragon Server on New Atlanta's site. Did Open BlueDragon basically replace it? Certainly seems like a different beast. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:314867 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Did OpenBD Replace the Free BlueDragon Server?
What you mean with Certainly seems like a different beast. ? Kind Regards, Nitai On Nov 5, 2008, at 6:49 PM, Dan LeGate wrote: I no longer see the free BlueDragon Server on New Atlanta's site. Did Open BlueDragon basically replace it? Certainly seems like a different beast. -- Razuna On-Demand - Hosted Digital Asset Management Solution Razuna - Open Source Digital Asset Management with Web Content Management http://www.razuna.vom/ Razuna - Open Source Forum Solution http://www.kabunto.org/ Roozani - memorize everywhere http://www.roozani.com/ SixSigns - Enrich peoples lives and web experience http://www.sixsigns.com http://blog.sixsigns.com ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:314868 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Did OpenBD Replace the Free BlueDragon Server?
In short, and unofficially, yes. NewAtlanta released their J2EE version of BlueDragon as open-source (and released management of it back to the initial developers of BD's core engine), then discontinued BD Free. It's not a replacement per-se, but it can be used in a very similar way. Without putting a negative connotation to it, OpenBD is indeed a different animal then BD Free was. OpenBD is not delivered as a standalone product like BD Free was - rather, it's meant to be used in conjunction with a J2EE server. If you're interested in a deployment that's similar to BD Free, check out this Linux installer: http://openbd.viviotech.net/downloader.cfm/id/48/file/openbd_rhel.sh If you've installed BD Free on a RHEL (or CentOS) linux machine before, this installer functions VERY similarly to how BD Free did. It uses Tomcat as the J2EE server and comes with one caveat - you will need to tell Tomcat what sites you are hosting so that it knows how to process them. Although the documentation isn't entirely complete, this aspect of the installer is discussed in detail here: http://openbd.viviotech.net/downloader.cfm/id/49/file/openbd_tomcat-apache_install-INCOMPLETE.pdf Hope this helps! Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ Open BlueDragon Steering Committee Adobe Solution Provider Dan LeGate wrote: I no longer see the free BlueDragon Server on New Atlanta's site. Did Open BlueDragon basically replace it? Certainly seems like a different beast. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:314871 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Did OpenBD Replace the Free BlueDragon Server?
I read it with a negative connotation I wouldn't read too much into it. The way I see it there are two basic flavors of CF run times. There is the Adobe CF Server Standard flavor that works with IIS and Apache out of the box and the the J2EE flavor that installs on top of a, well... a J2EE server (and is a bit foreign to ppl accustom to traditional php/asp/.Net type environments). I know... JRun is a J2EE server. But you get the point. The Free version of BD was that of the CF Server Standard flavor so in that light, OBD could be seen as a different beast. G On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Adam Haskell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would assume it did but I am concerned about the later comment. I read it with a negative connotation and I am curious how is it a different beast? Adam On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Dan LeGate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I no longer see the free BlueDragon Server on New Atlanta's site. Did Open BlueDragon basically replace it? Certainly seems like a different beast. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:314874 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Bluedragon Server
I'm not concerned about implementation details as a developer, I'm concerned about API and funcctionality. In this example, I believe the actcual CFMX cfsearch/cfcollection supports the search of pdfs and word documents, and the usage of additional languages other than english, ,whereas it appears BD does not support any of that. Additionally some of the search features apparently require a different syntax or return different results. My observation is that it is unlikely that anyone chooses BD because of the variances that remove, reduce or alter functionality without improving the development process. Which doesn't mean that there aren't reasons to choose BD. You may be correct about the features in Blackstone, but that's as much speculation as I've been doing. None of which alters the current reality that there are significant differences between CFMX and BD, which folks considering moving from one to another should realize may make migration between the two challenging without sufficient planning, if considering writing an app that can be resold to be deployed on either. Or alternatively writing for one only. And there are more insididous differences as well. For example you can write cfset #variablename# = my valuecfoutput#variablename#/cfoutput in CFMX, but it will error in BD. In effect, as with HTML/CSS, if you want to deploy on CFMX BD, you will be limited to a subset of both feature sets (and the usable features set probably continues to diminish if you want to consider Railo and the other one-offs). - Calvin Jeffry Houser wrote: BlueDragon has implemented cfcollection / cfsearch for a while (In their initial 6.1 release?). The underlying engine is not Verity, though. It uses one from the Apache project (I believe Lucene). It is not identical to Verity, although from the point of CF code, it doesn't make much difference. I believe a lot of the features in Blackstone are merely one layer of abstraction above issues that are relatively simple for a knowledgeable Java programmer. If so, I suspect the New Atlanta folks will be able to implement them very quickly. At 08:02 PM 11/4/2004, you wrote: Subject: Bluedragon Server From: Calvin Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 04 Nov 2004 15:17:54 -0600 Thread: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm/method=messagesthreadid=36359forumid=4#183417 I don't think that's entirely accurate. For example, isn't one of those differences is lack of support for some features in cfcollection/cfsearch? -Calvin -- Jeffry Houser, Web Developer, Writer, Songwriter, Recording Engineer AIM: Reboog711 | Phone: 1-203-379-0773 -- My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com My Recording Studio: http://www.fcfstudios.com My Energetic Acoustic Rock Band: http://www.farcryfly.com -- When did Reality Become TV ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183454 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
At 04:01 AM 11/5/2004, you wrote: Subject: Bluedragon Server From: Calvin Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 02:46:38 -0600 Thread: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm/method=messagesthreadid=36359forumid=4#183454 I'm not concerned about implementation details as a developer, I'm concerned about API and funcctionality. In this example, I believe the actcual CFMX cfsearch/cfcollection supports the search of pdfs and word documents, and the usage of additional languages other than english, ,whereas it appears BD does not support any of that. Additionally some of the search features apparently require a different syntax or return different results. I'm not sure about word docs / PDFs. You could be right. Does the searching syntax make a big difference? My users want to type in a word and get results. From the stand-point of your users, how many people actually know the verity syntax for advanced searching? I assume they want to type in a word or phrase and have it work. But, you are correct; the syntax is a bit different; because of the underlying engine. My observation is that it is unlikely that anyone chooses BD because of the variances that remove, reduce or alter functionality without improving the development process. Which doesn't mean that there aren't reasons to choose BD. I would agree. People choose BD because of the things it does better, or differently. You may be correct about the features in Blackstone, but that's as much speculation as I've been doing. None of which alters the current reality that there are significant differences between CFMX and BD, which folks considering moving from one to another should realize may make migration between the two challenging without sufficient planning, if considering writing an app that can be resold to be deployed on either. Or alternatively writing for one only. And there are more insididous differences as well. All of my CF apps worked on BD w/o change. I understand my experience is not uncommon. -- Jeffry Houser, Web Developer, Writer, Songwriter, Recording Engineer AIM: Reboog711 | Phone: 1-203-379-0773 -- My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com My Recording Studio: http://www.fcfstudios.com My Energetic Acoustic Rock Band: http://www.farcryfly.com -- When did Reality Become TV ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183465 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
--- Gert Franz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well generally you are right, but who allways writes variables.name or something like that. I do. No unscoped variables in my code. __ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183508 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
What about Railo or IgniteFusion? Does anyone know much about these two cfml engines? Are they up to the task, or a step behind CFMX and Bluedragon? Railo: http://www.railo.ch/en/index.cfm IgniteFusion: http://www.ignitefusion.com/ ~| Sams Teach Yourself Regular Expressions in 10 Minutes by Ben Forta http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=40 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183336 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
They are still behind, but I truly hope they become powerful enough to form competition for Macromedia. For us, the developers, such competition is always good. :) Micha Schopman Software Engineer Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ~| Purchase from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=35 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183337 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
I got the impression from the IgniteFusion site that their product is a cgi-based app server, as opposed to java-based like all other cfml engines these days. Anyone know if this is true or not? Outside of that, both IgniteFusion and Railo look really intriguing. They lack support for some CFMX tags and functions, but not many. ~| Purchase from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=37 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183340 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
No that's not true, you can load jar and java classes it's just not as straightforward as simply adding them to the class path. See Spike's article on loading jars. Cheers G On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 09:40:53 -0400, Ryan Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well Tom, at this point I guess my primary concern is this: Say along the way I decide to do something with our site that is not directly handled by one of the currently available cfml tags... With PHP I am basicly open and free to code and make the language do just about anything I want it to. With cfml, I could find myself at a place where I need to call on java. However, if I understand correctly, the free version of Bluedragon does not support calls to java nor the parsing of jsp code. I may be wrong...? On Wednesday 03 Nov 2004 13:30 pm, Ryan Jones wrote: Will Bluedragon Server really offer me everything PHP does? Yes. And more. Did you have something specific in mind ? servers take up huge amounts of memory, and tend to crash often once the traffic starts increasing. Are these stories true, or rumors? I expect a full J2EE app like CF will use more resources than PHP embeded in Apache's httpd. But if you are that close to your hardware limits, you have other problems :-) -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834XXX web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** ~| Sams Teach Yourself Regular Expressions in 10 Minutes by Ben Forta http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=40 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183341 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
Keep in mind. There is 44 pages of variance where BD does not work in the same fashion as the actual CFMX product that you will want to factor into your decision making. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Ryan Jones Date: 11/4/04 2:17 am To: CF-Talk Subj: Re: Bluedragon Server What about Railo or IgniteFusion? Does anyone know much about these two cfml engines? Are they up to the task, or a step behind CFMX and Bluedragon? Railo: http://www.railo.ch/en/index.cfm IgniteFusion: http://www.ignitefusion.com/ ~| Purchase from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=34 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183343 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
Actually, that's not quite true. The BlueDragon 6.1 CFML Compatibility Guide is indeed 44 pages (PDF). However, the first 7 pages are title page, table of contents, intro, etc. Then everything from page 15 to 44 describes enhancements that BD 6.1 provides that aren't supported by ColdFusion (such as CFIMAGE, CFIMAP, etc.). So only pages 8 through 14, inclusive (a total of 7 pages), describe BD limitations, most of the document describes BlueDragon enhancements. In BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter. Regards, Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:29 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Bluedragon Server Keep in mind. There is 44 pages of variance where BD does not work in the same fashion as the actual CFMX product that you will want to factor into your decision making. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Ryan Jones Date: 11/4/04 2:17 am To: CF-Talk Subj: Re: Bluedragon Server What about Railo or IgniteFusion? Does anyone know much about these two cfml engines? Are they up to the task, or a step behind CFMX and Bluedragon? Railo: http://www.railo.ch/en/index.cfm IgniteFusion: http://www.ignitefusion.com/ ~| Purchase from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=38 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183345 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
I should have said: in BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter, but the list of enhancements is longer. Vince -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:46 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Bluedragon Server Actually, that's not quite true. The BlueDragon 6.1 CFML Compatibility Guide is indeed 44 pages (PDF). However, the first 7 pages are title page, table of contents, intro, etc. Then everything from page 15 to 44 describes enhancements that BD 6.1 provides that aren't supported by ColdFusion (such as CFIMAGE, CFIMAP, etc.). So only pages 8 through 14, inclusive (a total of 7 pages), describe BD limitations, most of the document describes BlueDragon enhancements. In BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter. Regards, Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:29 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Bluedragon Server Keep in mind. There is 44 pages of variance where BD does not work in the same fashion as the actual CFMX product that you will want to factor into your decision making. - Calvin ~| Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=17 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183346 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
Sorry, I should get my thoughts together completely before writing these... Of the 7 pages of BlueDragon 6.1 incompatibilities, many of these are same incompatibilities you'll find when upgrading from CF5 to CFMX, such as lack of support for DSN-less connections and differences between the way Oracle stored procedures are invoked. I don't have the CFMX docs handing, but I wonder how many pages there are describing incompatibilities between CF5 and CFMX? Vince -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:49 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Bluedragon Server I should have said: in BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter, but the list of enhancements is longer. Vince -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:46 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Bluedragon Server Actually, that's not quite true. The BlueDragon 6.1 CFML Compatibility Guide is indeed 44 pages (PDF). However, the first 7 pages are title page, table of contents, intro, etc. Then everything from page 15 to 44 describes enhancements that BD 6.1 provides that aren't supported by ColdFusion (such as CFIMAGE, CFIMAP, etc.). So only pages 8 through 14, inclusive (a total of 7 pages), describe BD limitations, most of the document describes BlueDragon enhancements. In BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter. Regards, Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:29 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Bluedragon Server Keep in mind. There is 44 pages of variance where BD does not work in the same fashion as the actual CFMX product that you will want to factor into your decision making. - Calvin ~| Sams Teach Yourself Regular Expressions in 10 Minutes by Ben Forta http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=40 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183347 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
Yes on enhancement DB has that Macromedia STILL does not support is better implementation of xpaths and I applaud BD for this...i can't beleive you can't do xmlsearch(myXMLobj,'count(//node)') in MM's ColdFusion...its madening. Isn' Ralio still in Alpha, or atleast early beta? Adam H On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:48:33 -0500, Vince Bonfanti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I should have said: in BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter, but the list of enhancements is longer. Vince -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:46 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Bluedragon Server Actually, that's not quite true. The BlueDragon 6.1 CFML Compatibility Guide is indeed 44 pages (PDF). However, the first 7 pages are title page, table of contents, intro, etc. Then everything from page 15 to 44 describes enhancements that BD 6.1 provides that aren't supported by ColdFusion (such as CFIMAGE, CFIMAP, etc.). So only pages 8 through 14, inclusive (a total of 7 pages), describe BD limitations, most of the document describes BlueDragon enhancements. In BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter. Regards, Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:29 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Bluedragon Server Keep in mind. There is 44 pages of variance where BD does not work in the same fashion as the actual CFMX product that you will want to factor into your decision making. - Calvin ~| This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=11 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183348 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
Yes, according to their website, Railo is in Alpha 4, with an expected release of version 1.0 during the first part of 2005. Yes on enhancement DB has that Macromedia STILL does not support is better implementation of xpaths and I applaud BD for this...i can't beleive you can't do xmlsearch(myXMLobj,'count(//node)') in MM's ColdFusion...its madening. Isn' Ralio still in Alpha, or atleast early beta? Adam H On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:48:33 -0500, Vince Bonfanti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ~| Purchase from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=36 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183349 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
So has anyone here actually used IgniteFusion on a site in production? I realize it is a bit behind CFMX and Bluedragon, but perhaps it has enough to justify using it, considering its no-strings-attached free license. I mean, for common database interaction, email transaction, etc, certainly it is up to par. ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183357 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
I actually said variances not limitations. If you are developing products that are intended to be deployed cross platform, then you have consider all variances. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti Date: 11/4/04 6:46 am To: CF-Talk Subj: RE: Bluedragon Server Actually, that's not quite true. The BlueDragon 6.1 CFML Compatibility Guide is indeed 44 pages (PDF). However, the first 7 pages are title page, table of contents, intro, etc. Then everything from page 15 to 44 describes enhancements that BD 6.1 provides that aren't supported by ColdFusion (such as CFIMAGE, CFIMAP, etc.). So only pages 8 through 14, inclusive (a total of 7 pages), describe BD limitations, most of the document describes BlueDragon enhancements. In BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter. Regards, Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:29 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Bluedragon Server Keep in mind. There is 44 pages of variance where BD does not work in the same fashion as the actual CFMX product that you will want to factor into your decision making. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Ryan Jones Date: 11/4/04 2:17 am To: CF-Talk Subj: Re: Bluedragon Server What about Railo or IgniteFusion? Does anyone know much about these two cfml engines? Are they up to the task, or a step behind CFMX and Bluedragon? Railo: http://www.railo.ch/en/index.cfm IgniteFusion: http://www.ignitefusion.com/ ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183377 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
While that may be true, it seems probable the the release of Blackstone will further create a gap between actual CFMX and BD - Calvin -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti Date: 11/4/04 6:49 am To: CF-Talk Subj: RE: Bluedragon Server I should have said: in BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter, but the list of enhancements is longer. Vince -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:46 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Bluedragon Server Actually, that's not quite true. The BlueDragon 6.1 CFML Compatibility Guide is indeed 44 pages (PDF). However, the first 7 pages are title page, table of contents, intro, etc. Then everything from page 15 to 44 describes enhancements that BD 6.1 provides that aren't supported by ColdFusion (such as CFIMAGE, CFIMAP, etc.). So only pages 8 through 14, inclusive (a total of 7 pages), describe BD limitations, most of the document describes BlueDragon enhancements. In BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter. Regards, Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:29 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Bluedragon Server Keep in mind. There is 44 pages of variance where BD does not work in the same fashion as the actual CFMX product that you will want to factor into your decision making. - Calvin ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183378 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
Calvin Ward wrote: While that may be true, it seems probable the the release of Blackstone will further create a gap between actual CFMX and BD Of course, this is pure speculation. Speculating here myself, because I'm not on the beta test, but I would not be surprised if MM shortened BDs list of enhancement by adding that functionality to Blackstone and the list of incompatibilities didn't really increase that much. Plus how many people will actually upgrade to Blackstone? Yeah there will be the die-hards that go with every upgrade and the luck ones who will be handed Blackstone on a plate, but currently I'm still on CF5. Clients dictate upgrades. I personally can't justify the expense of upgrading to CFMX, as much as I'd like to, and most clients have no requirement for for some of the additional functionality provided by CFMX. Again, as much as I'd like to look into building apps with the likes of Mach-II, I can't justify upgrading to CFMX purely for this reason. I know someone who, until very recently, was still running cf4.5.2, because he had no requirement to upgrade and only upgraded recently, because he moved/upgraded his servers and felt that it was an appropriate time to upgrade CF too. At the end of the day, it comes down to your requirements and the requirements of your clients. Personally, I don't use BD. I have used BD in the past, back in the alpha testing days. It looked great and held a lot of promise back then, but wasn't production ready, so I had to go with MM CF. Since then I've, unfortunately, never had the requirement to look into using it. If and when the opportunity arises, then I will definately be looking at BD in detail as well as at MM CF Server. If it meets the requirements of the project that is paying for it and is cost effective, then I will go with it. What a developer should never do is chose not to use an alternate product, because it isn't the original. hmm... sorry that turned into a bit of a rant I'll go back to my dark corner now... regards Stephen PS. http://www.mxeurope.org/ - Registration is open!! The list of speakers and topics looks to be excellent. ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183389 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
Yes, of course. But you should note that it's *because* of those variances (the enhancements, not the limitations) that people are choosing BlueDragon. Which only makes sense: if BlueDragon didn't do some things better than CFMX, there wouldn't be any reason to use it. Vince -Original Message- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:50 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Bluedragon Server I actually said variances not limitations. If you are developing products that are intended to be deployed cross platform, then you have consider all variances. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti Date: 11/4/04 6:46 am To: CF-Talk Subj: RE: Bluedragon Server Actually, that's not quite true. The BlueDragon 6.1 CFML Compatibility Guide is indeed 44 pages (PDF). However, the first 7 pages are title page, table of contents, intro, etc. Then everything from page 15 to 44 describes enhancements that BD 6.1 provides that aren't supported by ColdFusion (such as CFIMAGE, CFIMAP, etc.). So only pages 8 through 14, inclusive (a total of 7 pages), describe BD limitations, most of the document describes BlueDragon enhancements. In BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter. Regards, Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:29 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Bluedragon Server Keep in mind. There is 44 pages of variance where BD does not work in the same fashion as the actual CFMX product that you will want to factor into your decision making. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Ryan Jones Date: 11/4/04 2:17 am To: CF-Talk Subj: Re: Bluedragon Server What about Railo or IgniteFusion? Does anyone know much about these two cfml engines? Are they up to the task, or a step behind CFMX and Bluedragon? Railo: http://www.railo.ch/en/index.cfm IgniteFusion: http://www.ignitefusion.com/ ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183398 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
Perhaps. As I've stated before (in this forum, I think), there's really nothing special or tricky in Blackstone that we shouldn't be able to implement fairly quickly in BlueDragon. Blackstone is an incremental feature release without fundamental architectural changes, such as CFCs or the reimplementation in Java that we got in CFMX (Macromedia is even touting the lack of architectural changes and incremental nature of Blackstone as a feature, since it implies--correctly--stability of the release). Based on information that's publicly available, we've already prototyped the major Blackstone features in BlueDragon--such as CFDOCUMENT and the message gateway. Which new features of Blackstone do you consider must have? It's interesting, though, that Blackstone is managing to close the gap with BlueDragon, adding some features that BlueDragon has had for more than two years: - standard J2EE WAR/EAR deployment - support for WebSphere Network Deployment clusters - source-less precompiled CFML templates - serialization of CFCs - CFIMAGE tag Vince -Original Message- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:50 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Bluedragon Server While that may be true, it seems probable the the release of Blackstone will further create a gap between actual CFMX and BD - Calvin -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti Date: 11/4/04 6:49 am To: CF-Talk Subj: RE: Bluedragon Server I should have said: in BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter, but the list of enhancements is longer. Vince -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:46 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Bluedragon Server Actually, that's not quite true. The BlueDragon 6.1 CFML Compatibility Guide is indeed 44 pages (PDF). However, the first 7 pages are title page, table of contents, intro, etc. Then everything from page 15 to 44 describes enhancements that BD 6.1 provides that aren't supported by ColdFusion (such as CFIMAGE, CFIMAP, etc.). So only pages 8 through 14, inclusive (a total of 7 pages), describe BD limitations, most of the document describes BlueDragon enhancements. In BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter. Regards, Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:29 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Bluedragon Server Keep in mind. There is 44 pages of variance where BD does not work in the same fashion as the actual CFMX product that you will want to factor into your decision making. - Calvin ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183399 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
Well, my speculation is based on what has been made public on MM's site and at MAX, the the stated focus of Blackstone appears to be feature set, I'd say that BD will be chasing CF7 much like they are over a year behind CF6.1. My commentary on the differences is in part related to the current frustration we all deal with in CSS implementation across browsers. It is true that BD has added some enhancements, but it also appears to be true that the don't support existing capabilities or consistently support certain functionality. How important that is will depend on each developer's needs, and code portability between the two different servers looks likely to become less simple as each company continues to go forward. Just as choosing between technologies such as J2EE, .NET and CFMX is a valid choice, so might be considering BD. However, as the two languages continue to grow apart, they will become more distinct. For better or worse, BD is not exactly CF. -Calvin -Original Message- From: Stephen Moretti (cfmaster) Date: 11/4/04 12:36 pm To: CF-Talk Subj: Re: Bluedragon Server Calvin Ward wrote: While that may be true, it seems probable the the release of Blackstone will further create a gap between actual CFMX and BD Of course, this is pure speculation. Speculating here myself, because I'm not on the beta test, but I would not be surprised if MM shortened BDs list of enhancement by adding that functionality to Blackstone and the list of incompatibilities didn't really increase that much. Plus how many people will actually upgrade to Blackstone? Yeah there will be the die-hards that go with every upgrade and the luck ones who will be handed Blackstone on a plate, but currently I'm still on CF5. Clients dictate upgrades. I personally can't justify the expense of upgrading to CFMX, as much as I'd like to, and most clients have no requirement for for some of the additional functionality provided by CFMX. Again, as much as I'd like to look into building apps with the likes of Mach-II, I can't justify upgrading to CFMX purely for this reason. I know someone who, until very recently, was still running cf4.5.2, because he had no requirement to upgrade and only upgraded recently, because he moved/upgraded his servers and felt that it was an appropriate time to upgrade CF too. At the end of the day, it comes down to your requirements and the requirements of your clients. Personally, I don't use BD. I have used BD in the past, back in the alpha testing days. It looked great and held a lot of promise back then, but wasn't production ready, so I had to go with MM CF. Since then I've, unfortunately, never had the requirement to look into using it. If and when the opportunity arises, then I will definately be looking at BD in detail as well as at MM CF Server. If it meets the requirements of the project that is paying for it and is cost effective, then I will go with it. What a developer should never do is chose not to use an alternate product, because it isn't the original. hmm... sorry that turned into a bit of a rant I'll go back to my dark corner now... regards Stephen PS. http://www.mxeurope.org/ - Registration is open!! The list of speakers and topics looks to be excellent. ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183416 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
I don't think that's entirely accurate. For example, isn't one of those differences is lack of support for some features in cfcollection/cfsearch? -Calvin -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti Date: 11/4/04 1:29 pm To: CF-Talk Subj: RE: Bluedragon Server Yes, of course. But you should note that it's *because* of those variances (the enhancements, not the limitations) that people are choosing BlueDragon. Which only makes sense: if BlueDragon didn't do some things better than CFMX, there wouldn't be any reason to use it. Vince -Original Message- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:50 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Bluedragon Server I actually said variances not limitations. If you are developing products that are intended to be deployed cross platform, then you have consider all variances. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti Date: 11/4/04 6:46 am To: CF-Talk Subj: RE: Bluedragon Server Actually, that's not quite true. The BlueDragon 6.1 CFML Compatibility Guide is indeed 44 pages (PDF). However, the first 7 pages are title page, table of contents, intro, etc. Then everything from page 15 to 44 describes enhancements that BD 6.1 provides that aren't supported by ColdFusion (such as CFIMAGE, CFIMAP, etc.). So only pages 8 through 14, inclusive (a total of 7 pages), describe BD limitations, most of the document describes BlueDragon enhancements. In BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter. Regards, Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:29 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Bluedragon Server Keep in mind. There is 44 pages of variance where BD does not work in the same fashion as the actual CFMX product that you will want to factor into your decision making. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Ryan Jones Date: 11/4/04 2:17 am To: CF-Talk ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183417 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
I didn't know cfimage was in Blackstone, I don't any specific feature that I'm refering to, however how about the flash related stuff? -Calvin -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti Date: 11/4/04 1:30 pm To: CF-Talk Subj: RE: Bluedragon Server Perhaps. As I've stated before (in this forum, I think), there's really nothing special or tricky in Blackstone that we shouldn't be able to implement fairly quickly in BlueDragon. Blackstone is an incremental feature release without fundamental architectural changes, such as CFCs or the reimplementation in Java that we got in CFMX (Macromedia is even touting the lack of architectural changes and incremental nature of Blackstone as a feature, since it implies--correctly--stability of the release). Based on information that's publicly available, we've already prototyped the major Blackstone features in BlueDragon--such as CFDOCUMENT and the message gateway. Which new features of Blackstone do you consider must have? It's interesting, though, that Blackstone is managing to close the gap with BlueDragon, adding some features that BlueDragon has had for more than two years: - standard J2EE WAR/EAR deployment - support for WebSphere Network Deployment clusters - source-less precompiled CFML templates - serialization of CFCs - CFIMAGE tag Vince -Original Message- From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:50 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Bluedragon Server While that may be true, it seems probable the the release of Blackstone will further create a gap between actual CFMX and BD - Calvin -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti Date: 11/4/04 6:49 am To: CF-Talk Subj: RE: Bluedragon Server I should have said: in BlueDragon 6.2, the list of incompatibilities is even shorter, but the list of enhancements is longer. Vince -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:46 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Bluedragon Server Actually, that's not quite true. The BlueDragon 6.1 CFML Compatibility Guide is indeed 44 pages (PDF). However, the first 7 pages are title page, table of contents, intro, etc. Then everything from page 15 to 44 describes enhancements that BD 6.1 provides that aren't supported by ColdFusion (such as CFIMAGE, CFIMAP, etc.). So only pages 8 through 14, inclusive (a total of ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183418 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
hi there, just take a look at the performance tests we did with railo alfa 4 in comparison to cfmx. http://www.railo.ch/en/documentation/index.cfm?treeID=30 We have a lot of improvements and in railo and no big limitations (except for the couple of tags and functions that we still have to implement). Take the scope cascading for example. By turning it off you can boost the performance of railo greatly. Scope cascading allows you to implicitly reference variables. For example you can write the statement cfset test = Name. The variable Name has no Scope-Qualifier so Railo normaly checks the usual scopes (in a predefined order [variables, current query, form, url a.s.o.]) to find it. You can turn this behaviour off so that you have to write cfset test = url.Name. This leads to a large improvement in execution-speed. And adding to this the code can be easier read. Of course this is a (configurable) limitation, but with the advantages you get, you won't consider it to be a limitation. Check out www.railo.com for updates. We plan to release Railo Beta in the first quarter of 2005. cfregards from=Gert Franz who=railo developer location=switzerland respondto=[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. November 2004 22:18 An: CF-Talk Betreff: Re: Bluedragon Server Well, my speculation is based on what has been made public on MM's site and at MAX, the the stated focus of Blackstone appears to be feature set, I'd say that BD will be chasing CF7 much like they are over a year behind CF6.1. My commentary on the differences is in part related to the current frustration we all deal with in CSS implementation across browsers. It is true that BD has added some enhancements, but it also appears to be true that the don't support existing capabilities or consistently support certain functionality. How important that is will depend on each developer's needs, and code portability between the two different servers looks likely to become less simple as each company continues to go forward. Just as choosing between technologies such as J2EE, .NET and CFMX is a valid choice, so might be considering BD. However, as the two languages continue to grow apart, they will become more distinct. For better or worse, BD is not exactly CF. -Calvin -Original Message- From: Stephen Moretti (cfmaster) Date: 11/4/04 12:36 pm To: CF-Talk Subj: Re: Bluedragon Server Calvin Ward wrote: While that may be true, it seems probable the the release of Blackstone will further create a gap between actual CFMX and BD Of course, this is pure speculation. Speculating here myself, because I'm not on the beta test, but I would not be surprised if MM shortened BDs list of enhancement by adding that functionality to Blackstone and the list of incompatibilities didn't really increase that much. Plus how many people will actually upgrade to Blackstone? Yeah there will be the die-hards that go with every upgrade and the luck ones who will be handed Blackstone on a plate, but currently I'm still on CF5. Clients dictate upgrades. I personally can't justify the expense of upgrading to CFMX, as much as I'd like to, and most clients have no requirement for for some of the additional functionality provided by CFMX. Again, as much as I'd like to look into building apps with the likes of Mach-II, I can't justify upgrading to CFMX purely for this reason. I know someone who, until very recently, was still running cf4.5.2, because he had no requirement to upgrade and only upgraded recently, because he moved/upgraded his servers and felt that it was an appropriate time to upgrade CF too. At the end of the day, it comes down to your requirements and the requirements of your clients. Personally, I don't use BD. I have used BD in the past, back in the alpha testing days. It looked great and held a lot of promise back then, but wasn't production ready, so I had to go with MM CF. Since then I've, unfortunately, never had the requirement to look into using it. If and when the opportunity arises, then I will definately be looking at BD in detail as well as at MM CF Server. If it meets the requirements of the project that is paying for it and is cost effective, then I will go with it. What a developer should never do is chose not to use an alternate product, because it isn't the original. hmm... sorry that turned into a bit of a rant I'll go back to my dark corner now... regards Stephen PS. http://www.mxeurope.org/ - Registration is open!! The list of speakers and topics looks to be excellent. ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183434 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http
Re: Bluedragon Server
Intriguing. I was always under the impression that if you defined the scope in the first place, the same kind of performance increase would occur? Is that not what happens? Thanks! Keep up the good work! -Jordan Gert Franz wrote: hi there, just take a look at the performance tests we did with railo alfa 4 in comparison to cfmx. http://www.railo.ch/en/documentation/index.cfm?treeID=30 We have a lot of improvements and in railo and no big limitations (except for the couple of tags and functions that we still have to implement). Take the scope cascading for example. By turning it off you can boost the performance of railo greatly. Scope cascading allows you to implicitly reference variables. For example you can write the statement cfset test = Name. The variable Name has no Scope-Qualifier so Railo normaly checks the usual scopes (in a predefined order [variables, current query, form, url a.s.o.]) to find it. You can turn this behaviour off so that you have to write cfset test = url.Name. This leads to a large improvement in execution-speed. And adding to this the code can be easier read. Of course this is a (configurable) limitation, but with the advantages you get, you won't consider it to be a limitation. Check out www.railo.com for updates. We plan to release Railo Beta in the first quarter of 2005. cfregards from=Gert Franz who=railo developer location=switzerland respondto=[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183435 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
Well generally you are right, but who allways writes variables.name or something like that. Even if you have defined the scope the checks still have to be done and the engine has to check wether it is a valid scope (or a structure or something else) or not. By configuring the scope cascading to strict (see below), railo knows, that a variable without a scope can only be found in the variables or arguments scope. And please recall that in CFMX something like this (might be stupid) still works: cfset test = caller.name If in the caller scope there is a form variable called name CFMX will find this variable, allthough the form scope is present in the current template too. You could also write cfset test = caller.form.name Well exactly spoken in railo you can configure scope cascading in the following way: Extract of the railo.xml: !-- scope configuration: cascading (expanding of undefined scope) - strict (argument,variables) - small (argument,variables,cgi,url,form) - standart (argument,variables,cgi,url,form,cookie) cascade-to-resultset: yes|no when set to yes, railo allows inside a cfoutput query=queryname and cfloop query=queryname to call columns of the resultset implicitly merge-url-form:yes|no when set to yes all form and url variables are merged into both scopes -- scope cascading=standart cascade-to-resultset=yes merge-url-form=no - Gert - -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jordan Michaels [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Freitag, 5. November 2004 01:20 An: CF-Talk Betreff: Re: Bluedragon Server Intriguing. I was always under the impression that if you defined the scope in the first place, the same kind of performance increase would occur? Is that not what happens? Thanks! Keep up the good work! -Jordan Gert Franz wrote: hi there, just take a look at the performance tests we did with railo alfa 4 in comparison to cfmx. http://www.railo.ch/en/documentation/index.cfm?treeID=30 We have a lot of improvements and in railo and no big limitations (except for the couple of tags and functions that we still have to implement). Take the scope cascading for example. By turning it off you can boost the performance of railo greatly. Scope cascading allows you to implicitly reference variables. For example you can write the statement cfset test = Name. The variable Name has no Scope-Qualifier so Railo normaly checks the usual scopes (in a predefined order [variables, current query, form, url a.s.o.]) to find it. You can turn this behaviour off so that you have to write cfset test = url.Name. This leads to a large improvement in execution-speed. And adding to this the code can be easier read. Of course this is a (configurable) limitation, but with the advantages you get, you won't consider it to be a limitation. Check out www.railo.com for updates. We plan to release Railo Beta in the first quarter of 2005. cfregards from=Gert Franz who=railo developer location=switzerland respondto=[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183436 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
Honestly? I do. ;) However, I've been particularly up-tight about my code recently, so it's probably just me. However you're entirely correct that other checking must go on anyway. That's a great feature! I like it a lot! Warm regards, Jordan Gert Franz wrote: Well generally you are right, but who allways writes variables.name or something like that. Even if you have defined the scope the checks still have to be done and the engine has to check wether it is a valid scope (or a structure or something else) or not. By configuring the scope cascading to strict (see below), railo knows, that a variable without a scope can only be found in the variables or arguments scope. And please recall that in CFMX something like this (might be stupid) still works: cfset test = caller.name If in the caller scope there is a form variable called name CFMX will find this variable, allthough the form scope is present in the current template too. You could also write cfset test = caller.form.name Well exactly spoken in railo you can configure scope cascading in the following way: Extract of the railo.xml: !-- scope configuration: cascading (expanding of undefined scope) - strict (argument,variables) - small (argument,variables,cgi,url,form) - standart (argument,variables,cgi,url,form,cookie) cascade-to-resultset: yes|no when set to yes, railo allows inside a cfoutput query=queryname and cfloop query=queryname to call columns of the resultset implicitly merge-url-form:yes|no when set to yes all form and url variables are merged into both scopes -- scope cascading=standart cascade-to-resultset=yes merge-url-form=no - Gert - -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jordan Michaels [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Freitag, 5. November 2004 01:20 An: CF-Talk Betreff: Re: Bluedragon Server Intriguing. I was always under the impression that if you defined the scope in the first place, the same kind of performance increase would occur? Is that not what happens? Thanks! Keep up the good work! -Jordan Gert Franz wrote: hi there, just take a look at the performance tests we did with railo alfa 4 in comparison to cfmx. http://www.railo.ch/en/documentation/index.cfm?treeID=30 We have a lot of improvements and in railo and no big limitations (except for the couple of tags and functions that we still have to implement). Take the scope cascading for example. By turning it off you can boost the performance of railo greatly. Scope cascading allows you to implicitly reference variables. For example you can write the statement cfset test = Name. The variable Name has no Scope-Qualifier so Railo normaly checks the usual scopes (in a predefined order [variables, current query, form, url a.s.o.]) to find it. You can turn this behaviour off so that you have to write cfset test = url.Name. This leads to a large improvement in execution-speed. And adding to this the code can be easier read. Of course this is a (configurable) limitation, but with the advantages you get, you won't consider it to be a limitation. Check out www.railo.com for updates. We plan to release Railo Beta in the first quarter of 2005. cfregards from=Gert Franz who=railo developer location=switzerland respondto=[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183443 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
BlueDragon has implemented cfcollection / cfsearch for a while (In their initial 6.1 release?). The underlying engine is not Verity, though. It uses one from the Apache project (I believe Lucene). It is not identical to Verity, although from the point of CF code, it doesn't make much difference. I believe a lot of the features in Blackstone are merely one layer of abstraction above issues that are relatively simple for a knowledgeable Java programmer. If so, I suspect the New Atlanta folks will be able to implement them very quickly. At 08:02 PM 11/4/2004, you wrote: Subject: Bluedragon Server From: Calvin Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 04 Nov 2004 15:17:54 -0600 Thread: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm/method=messagesthreadid=36359forumid=4#183417 I don't think that's entirely accurate. For example, isn't one of those differences is lack of support for some features in cfcollection/cfsearch? -Calvin -- Jeffry Houser, Web Developer, Writer, Songwriter, Recording Engineer AIM: Reboog711 | Phone: 1-203-379-0773 -- My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com My Recording Studio: http://www.fcfstudios.com My Energetic Acoustic Rock Band: http://www.farcryfly.com -- When did Reality Become TV ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183445 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Bluedragon Server
Hello, I posted the following to the Bluedragon mailing list over at New Atlanta, but would also love to have the insight of the members of this site. *We are a small outfit that runs a PHP-based content site. I would really like to move to cfml, as my job description includes webmaster, web developer, content co-editor and promotions guy... cfml's ease of use could really save me some time and allow me to do more advanced things than PHP would, as with PHP these things would presumably take more time to learn - time I don't have. On Ben Forta's blog, Vince Bonfanti of New Atlanta made the following claim: * *///The free BlueDragon Server edition is being offered directly as an alternative to PHP to keep people using CFML instead./ Will Bluedragon Server really offer me everything PHP does? I have also read horror stories about how cfml is nice, but that the servers take up huge amounts of memory, and tend to crash often once the traffic starts increasing. Are these stories true, or rumors? *Thank you, Ryan Jones ~| Purchase from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=37 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183253 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
Hello there, You could check here for some comparison info... http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/product_info/cfml_tag_support.cfm http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/product_info/features.cfm#FCMatrix I believe that the free version does have certain license restrictions... I'm sure there are some BD people on the list who may answer any questions. Hope that helps a bit.. Yves On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:30:11 +0200, Ryan Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I posted the following to the Bluedragon mailing list over at New Atlanta, but would also love to have the insight of the members of this site. *We are a small outfit that runs a PHP-based content site. I would really like to move to cfml, as my job description includes webmaster, web developer, content co-editor and promotions guy... cfml's ease of use could really save me some time and allow me to do more advanced things than PHP would, as with PHP these things would presumably take more time to learn - time I don't have. On Ben Forta's blog, Vince Bonfanti of New Atlanta made the following claim: * *///The free BlueDragon Server edition is being offered directly as an alternative to PHP to keep people using CFML instead./ Will Bluedragon Server really offer me everything PHP does? I have also read horror stories about how cfml is nice, but that the servers take up huge amounts of memory, and tend to crash often once the traffic starts increasing. Are these stories true, or rumors? *Thank you, Ryan Jones ~| Protect your mail server with built in anti-virus protection. It's not only good for you, it's good for everybody. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=39 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183256 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
On Wednesday 03 Nov 2004 13:30 pm, Ryan Jones wrote: Will Bluedragon Server really offer me everything PHP does? Yes. And more. Did you have something specific in mind ? servers take up huge amounts of memory, and tend to crash often once the traffic starts increasing. Are these stories true, or rumors? I expect a full J2EE app like CF will use more resources than PHP embeded in Apache's httpd. But if you are that close to your hardware limits, you have other problems :-) -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834XXX web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** ~| Purchase from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=36 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183257 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
Well Tom, at this point I guess my primary concern is this: Say along the way I decide to do something with our site that is not directly handled by one of the currently available cfml tags... With PHP I am basicly open and free to code and make the language do just about anything I want it to. With cfml, I could find myself at a place where I need to call on java. However, if I understand correctly, the free version of Bluedragon does not support calls to java nor the parsing of jsp code. I may be wrong...? On Wednesday 03 Nov 2004 13:30 pm, Ryan Jones wrote: Will Bluedragon Server really offer me everything PHP does? Yes. And more. Did you have something specific in mind ? servers take up huge amounts of memory, and tend to crash often once the traffic starts increasing. Are these stories true, or rumors? I expect a full J2EE app like CF will use more resources than PHP embeded in Apache's httpd. But if you are that close to your hardware limits, you have other problems :-) -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834XXX web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** ~| Protect your mail server with built in anti-virus protection. It's not only good for you, it's good for everybody. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=39 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183258 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
Well Tom, at this point I guess my primary concern is this: Say along the way I decide to do something with our site that is not directly handled by one of the currently available cfml tags... With PHP I am basicly open and free to code and make the language do just about anything I want it to. With cfml, I could find myself at a place where I need to call on java. However, if I understand correctly, the free version of Bluedragon does not support calls to java nor the parsing of jsp code. I may be wrong...? On Wednesday 03 Nov 2004 13:30 pm, Ryan Jones wrote: Will Bluedragon Server really offer me everything PHP does? Yes. And more. Did you have something specific in mind ? servers take up huge amounts of memory, and tend to crash often once the traffic starts increasing. Are these stories true, or rumors? I expect a full J2EE app like CF will use more resources than PHP embeded in Apache's httpd. But if you are that close to your hardware limits, you have other problems :-) -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834XXX web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** ~| Sams Teach Yourself Regular Expressions in 10 Minutes by Ben Forta http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=40 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183259 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
Actually, I have another concern: mass mailing. We run a newsletter with over 3,000 subscribers. With PHP I sent out to this list on a daily basis using phpmailer class sending via smtp. Works great. I am afraid of using the cfmail tag for such mailings based on the fact that php's mail() function should NEVER be used to send out bulk mail. I may be way off base here though... maybe the cfmail tag is capable of handling thousands of addresses. But even if it is, Bluedragon itself is a concern for me here. I say this because on the Macromedia site, their feature matrix for CF notes that while CF Enterprise has High-Performance Email Delivery, the Standard Server version does not. I am assuming that the Bluedragon Server is comparable to Coldfusion MX Standard, meaning that I am also assuming it does NOT feature High-Performance Email Delivery. Am I wrong here too? On Wednesday 03 Nov 2004 13:30 pm, Ryan Jones wrote: Will Bluedragon Server really offer me everything PHP does? Yes. And more. Did you have something specific in mind ? servers take up huge amounts of memory, and tend to crash often once the traffic starts increasing. Are these stories true, or rumors? I expect a full J2EE app like CF will use more resources than PHP embeded in Apache's httpd. But if you are that close to your hardware limits, you have other problems :-) -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834XXX web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** ~| Purchase from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=36 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183260 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
On Wednesday 03 Nov 2004 13:49 pm, Ryan Jones wrote: may be way off base here though... maybe the cfmail tag is capable of handling thousands of addresses. Certainly is, failing that there is the CFML that powers this very list :-) Standard, meaning that I am also assuming it does NOT feature High-Performance Email Delivery. I wouldn't call 3000/day high. With cfml, I could find myself at a place where I need to call on java. Only in the same way that if PHP doesn't do it, you need to call on C. Drop the BD sales people a line, they are very responsive and helpful. -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834XXX web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** ~| Purchase from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=35 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183262 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
Some of you might find this a little weird But I once looped a cfmail to test BlueDragon' 3.x version and my mail server I can't remember how many emails I was (and had) set to receive, but I had no problem what so ever And the loop was several 10s of thousand... probably about 50 000 emails.. This was done on a Linux platform. PS, this server was in production at the time of the test... Yves On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:59:51 +, Thomas Chiverton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 03 Nov 2004 13:49 pm, Ryan Jones wrote: may be way off base here though... maybe the cfmail tag is capable of handling thousands of addresses. Certainly is, failing that there is the CFML that powers this very list :-) Standard, meaning that I am also assuming it does NOT feature High-Performance Email Delivery. I wouldn't call 3000/day high. With cfml, I could find myself at a place where I need to call on java. Only in the same way that if PHP doesn't do it, you need to call on C. Drop the BD sales people a line, they are very responsive and helpful. -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834XXX web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** ~| Protect your mail server with built in anti-virus protection. It's not only good for you, it's good for everybody. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=39 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183264 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
Ryan, My suggestion is to use a blend of tools. CFML, IMO, will provide you with faster application turnaround but that doesn't mean that you should abandon tools that aren't built in it. Use what's best for the specific task at hand and don't rewrite something for the sake of doing it. If you have PHP code that already handles your mailings, just continue to use it. Rey... - Original Message - From: Ryan Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 8:49 AM Subject: Re: Bluedragon Server Actually, I have another concern: mass mailing. We run a newsletter with over 3,000 subscribers. With PHP I sent out to this list on a daily basis using phpmailer class sending via smtp. Works great. I am afraid of using the cfmail tag for such mailings based on the fact that php's mail() function should NEVER be used to send out bulk mail. I may be way off base here though... maybe the cfmail tag is capable of handling thousands of addresses. But even if it is, Bluedragon itself is a concern for me here. I say this because on the Macromedia site, their feature matrix for CF notes that while CF Enterprise has High-Performance Email Delivery, the Standard Server version does not. I am assuming that the Bluedragon Server is comparable to Coldfusion MX Standard, meaning that I am also assuming it does NOT feature High-Performance Email Delivery. Am I wrong here too? On Wednesday 03 Nov 2004 13:30 pm, Ryan Jones wrote: Will Bluedragon Server really offer me everything PHP does? Yes. And more. Did you have something specific in mind ? servers take up huge amounts of memory, and tend to crash often once the traffic starts increasing. Are these stories true, or rumors? I expect a full J2EE app like CF will use more resources than PHP embeded in Apache's httpd. But if you are that close to your hardware limits, you have other problems :-) -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834XXX web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** ~| Sams Teach Yourself Regular Expressions in 10 Minutes by Ben Forta http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=40 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183265 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Bluedragon Server
Ryan, In my past life, working for an ISP that was a CF house, we had several high subscriber e-newsletter clients. One technique that we employed, which greatly reduced server load and errors, was to send out these newsletters in batches of 500. Fairly easy to script, did not drag out system resources, easy to troubleshoot in an error situation, and definitely doable on BD. Cutter Ryan Jones wrote: Actually, I have another concern: mass mailing. We run a newsletter with over 3,000 subscribers. With PHP I sent out to this list on a daily basis using phpmailer class sending via smtp. Works great. I am afraid of using the cfmail tag for such mailings based on the fact that php's mail() function should NEVER be used to send out bulk mail. I may be way off base here though... maybe the cfmail tag is capable of handling thousands of addresses. But even if it is, Bluedragon itself is a concern for me here. I say this because on the Macromedia site, their feature matrix for CF notes that while CF Enterprise has High-Performance Email Delivery, the Standard Server version does not. I am assuming that the Bluedragon Server is comparable to Coldfusion MX Standard, meaning that I am also assuming it does NOT feature High-Performance Email Delivery. Am I wrong here too? On Wednesday 03 Nov 2004 13:30 pm, Ryan Jones wrote: Will Bluedragon Server really offer me everything PHP does? Yes. And more. Did you have something specific in mind ? servers take up huge amounts of memory, and tend to crash often once the traffic starts increasing. Are these stories true, or rumors? I expect a full J2EE app like CF will use more resources than PHP embeded in Apache's httpd. But if you are that close to your hardware limits, you have other problems :-) -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BlueFinger Limited Underwood Business Park Wookey Hole Road, WELLS. BA5 1AF Tel: +44 (0)1749 834900 Fax: +44 (0)1749 834XXX web: www.bluefinger.com Company Reg No: 4209395 Registered Office: 2 Temple Back East, Temple Quay, BRISTOL. BS1 6EG *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of the company. BlueFinger Limited cannot accept responsibility for the completeness or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public networks.*** ~| Purchase from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=35 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183267 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Bluedragon Server
From: Ryan Jones wrote: With PHP I am basicly open and free to code and make the language do just about anything I want it to. With cfml, I could find myself at a place where I need to call on java. However, if I understand correctly, the free version of Bluedragon does not support calls to java nor the parsing of jsp code. I may be wrong...? The free version of BlueDragon does not support JSP, but does support calls to Java via CFOBJECT/CreateObject(). So you can either call the built-in Java APIs or Java classes that your write yourself. The free version of BlueDragon also support Java and C++ CFX tags. Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com ~| This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=11 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:183288 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
On Saturday 22 Feb 2003 17:10 pm, Vince Bonfanti wrote: The only conflict to watch out for is when you go to install a web server adapter to IIS or Apache--in that case you can only have one of BlueDragon/CFMX/CF5 attached to the web server. But you can just use ProxyPass or mod_rewrite to map the server on port 8500 into the URI space of your port 80 Apache server, so it's not much of an issue. -- Tom C Unanswered Questions #6: Who created the Universe ? ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
The only conflict to watch out for is when you go to install a web server adapter to IIS or Apache--in that case you can only have one of BlueDragon/CFMX/CF5 attached to the web server. But you can just use ProxyPass or mod_rewrite to map the server on port 8500 into the URI space of your port 80 Apache server, so it's not much of an issue. You don't even have to do that. You can just enable BlueDragon or CFMX or CF5 within specific virtual servers or directories, on Apache or IIS. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
| | You don't even have to do that. You can just enable BlueDragon or CFMX or | CF5 within specific virtual servers or directories, on Apache or IIS. | | Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software | http://www.figleaf.com/ | voice: (202) 797-5496 | fax: (202) 797-5444 | I would be interested in seeing more details on this feature ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
You don't even have to do that. You can just enable BlueDragon or CFMX or CF5 within specific virtual servers or directories, on Apache or IIS. I would be interested in seeing more details on this feature I've described this more than once on this list, I'm sure, so it's probably in the archives. Nevertheless, it's not too difficult to do. With IIS, you can use wsconfig to configure CFMX to work with an individual virtual server; what this does is configure either an ISAPI filter or extension to work with that virtual server, and create a virtual directory called JrunScripts, which maps to the same folder that contains the ISAPI DLL. You can set up CF 5 manually, for a specific virtual server or application, by mapping the .cfm extension to \CFusion\BIN\ISCF.DLL. With Apache, you simply put the appropriate directives within a VirtualHost directive. Here's an example, from my laptop: VirtualHost mycf5.figleaf.com ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED] DocumentRoot C:/htdocs/mycf5/ LoadModule coldfusion_module modules/mod_coldfusion.so AddHandler type-coldfusion cfm dbm /VirtualHost VirtualHost mycfmx.figleaf.com ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED] DocumentRoot C:/htdocs/mycfmx/ # JRun Settings LoadModule jrun_module C:/CFusionMX/runtime/lib/wsconfig/2/mod_jrun20.so IfModule mod_jrun20.c JRunConfig Verbose false JRunConfig Apialloc false JRunConfig Ssl false JRunConfig Ignoresuffixmap false JRunConfig Serverstore C:/CFusionMX/runtime/lib/wsconfig/2/jrunserver.store JRunConfig Bootstrap 127.0.0.1:51010 #JRunConfig Errorurl optionally redirect to this URL on errors AddHandler jrun-handler .jsp .jws /IfModule /VirtualHost To make this work on my laptop, with both hosts using the same IP socket, I added the appropriate entries to my hosts file. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
On Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 10:24 AM, Vince Bonfanti wrote: Note that the BlueDragon implementation is via the new PAGE attribute of the CFINCLUDE tag (and not via the GetPageContext function), which allows you to include the output of JSP pages or servlets in a CFML page: BlueDragon also implement a new CFFORWARD tag to do a server-side redirect equivalent to CFMX's GetPageContext().forward(): BTW, we plan to add support for GetPageContext() in BlueDragon 3.1 in order to provide compatibility with CFMX, but we still like our implementation better. :-) ColdFusion now has all three: -- start includeanything.cfm -- !--- The includeanything tag will include any type of page, not just a CFM template. @attribute page (required) Relative path to the template you want to include. --- cfif #thisTag.executionMode# is start cfparam name=attributes.page / cfscript getPageContext().include(attributes.page); /cfscript /cfif -- end includeanything.cfm -- -- start forward.cfm -- !--- The forward tag will perform a server-side redirect. @attribute page (required) Relative path to the template you want to forward to. --- cfif #thisTag.executionMode# is start cfparam name=attributes.page / cfscript getPageContext().forward(attributes.page); /cfscript /cfif -- end forward.cfm -- Christian ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
On Saturday, Feb 22, 2003, at 07:24 US/Pacific, Vince Bonfanti wrote: My apologies--CFMX does indeed offer similar capabilities as BlueDragon in this regard. It was an oversight on my part, and not a deliberate attempt to mislead. No problem. I expected it was just an oversight. I've been reading through the compatibility guide (thank you) to see what other enhancements New Atlanta has added. Note that the BlueDragon implementation is via the new PAGE attribute of the CFINCLUDE tag (and not via the GetPageContext function), which allows you to include the output of JSP pages or servlets in a CFML page: cfinclude page=header.jsp cfinclude page=/servlet/myServlet BlueDragon also implement a new CFFORWARD tag to do a server-side redirect equivalent to CFMX's GetPageContext().forward(): Can you obtain the page context object in any way in BlueDragon? I was just wondering if there was a way that people could write their JSP include/forward so that it was compatible between both products. Details of CFINCLUDE, CFFORWARD, and other CFML enhancements introduced by BlueDragon (such as the CFIMAP tag) are in the BlueDragon CFML Compatibility Guide: This is a good piece of documentation - I learned some interesting things about CF5 from it! It's also good that you point out these enhancements and incompatibilities so that developers who are keen to write portable code can continue to do so. Anyone's who's interested in learning more about the CFML/Java/JSP integration features offered by BlueDragon will be interested in attending my talk at the upcoming MXNorth conference: I assume this will cover more ground than your (enjoyable and informative) BACFUG talk from a few months back? BTW, we plan to add support for GetPageContext() in BlueDragon 3.1 in order to provide compatibility with CFMX, but we still like our implementation better. :-) Ah, that answers my question above then. Roll on version 3.1 then! Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
I'm giving two talks at MXNorth. The first, Intro to JSP for CFML Developers is a slightly updated version of the presentation I gave at BACFUG in December (I also gave this presentation to the Atlanta CFUG, and somewhere else I don't remember offhand). This one is on Friday at 2:15 pm. The second talk is Integrating CFML and J2EE Web Applications on Sunday at 1:00 pm. I think I gave a presentation with the same title at CFNorth last year, but this one is completely different. Last year was all slides and theory, this one will be mostly practical code examples. Finally, for anyone who's interested, we'll be demonstrating BlueDragon for .NET in our booth at MXNorth (the first ever public demonstration). Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 11:59 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! ... Anyone's who's interested in learning more about the CFML/Java/JSP integration features offered by BlueDragon will be interested in attending my talk at the upcoming MXNorth conference: I assume this will cover more ground than your (enjoyable and informative) BACFUG talk from a few months back? ... ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
When I install on a machine without IIS v5, it asks me if I want to install the web adapter for IIS. On another box I have uninstalled ColdFusion and started to install Blue Dragon. The installation program does not offer me an option to install the web adapter for IIS, and the administrator crashes when I go there later. Does this make sense? Eric From: Vince Bonfanti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:10:31 -0500 Yes CFMX and BlueDragon (and CF5) can all peacefully co-exist on the same machine. CFMX has a built-in web server that runs on port 8500 by default. BlueDragon Server has a built-in web server that runs on port 8080 by default--as long as you don't have anything already installed using port 8080 (such as Tomcat) you'll be OK. You can also specify a port other than 8080 when installing BlueDragon. The only conflict to watch out for is when you go to install a web server adapter to IIS or Apache--in that case you can only have one of BlueDragon/CFMX/CF5 attached to the web server. Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Frank Mamone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:44 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Vince, I apologize if I missed your response on this, but my question was if CFMX and BlueDragon can co-exist on a development server for testing and maybe access blue dragon on a port other that 80? Thanks, Frank Mamone ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
Hi Eric, See responses inserted below. Vince -Original Message- From: Eric Dawson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:14 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! When I install on a machine without IIS v5, it asks me if I want to install the web adapter for IIS. The BlueDragon installer prompts for a web adapter based on registry entries. My only guess would be that IIS was installed previously and then removed, but the registry wasn't cleaned up properly. On another box I have uninstalled ColdFusion and started to install Blue Dragon. The installation program does not offer me an option to install the web adapter for IIS, and the administrator crashes when I go there later. Again, BlueDragon detects the presence of IIS based on registry entries--if the registry entries aren't there, then BlueDragon thinks IIS isn't there. We've seen this in one or two other cases and are putting together a set of instructions for manually installing the IIS adapter in this case. What do you mean by the administrator crashes? Does the BlueDragon administration console display at all or do you get an error message in the browser? Can you serve the home page of the built-in web server: http://localhost:8080/index.cfm For completeness, which operating system are you running? Do you have the disk formatted as NTFS or FAT32? ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
Thanks for the help, and quick response. My current guess is... I previously had TomCat installed, and I was experimenting with using IIS as the thingy for the jangy. There might be some residual stuff hanging around. This was essentially a dev box I grabbed from a pile, and powered on to test a couple of things. So I don't quite remember its history. I may install from scratch. I am running w2k, ntfs. cleaning registry now... Eric From: Vince Bonfanti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:26:49 -0500 Hi Eric, See responses inserted below. Vince -Original Message- From: Eric Dawson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:14 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! When I install on a machine without IIS v5, it asks me if I want to install the web adapter for IIS. The BlueDragon installer prompts for a web adapter based on registry entries. My only guess would be that IIS was installed previously and then removed, but the registry wasn't cleaned up properly. On another box I have uninstalled ColdFusion and started to install Blue Dragon. The installation program does not offer me an option to install the web adapter for IIS, and the administrator crashes when I go there later. Again, BlueDragon detects the presence of IIS based on registry entries--if the registry entries aren't there, then BlueDragon thinks IIS isn't there. We've seen this in one or two other cases and are putting together a set of instructions for manually installing the IIS adapter in this case. What do you mean by the administrator crashes? Does the BlueDragon administration console display at all or do you get an error message in the browser? Can you serve the home page of the built-in web server: http://localhost:8080/index.cfm For completeness, which operating system are you running? Do you have the disk formatted as NTFS or FAT32? ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
Yes, we've made significant strides based on feedback from customers like you. If you continue to have problems with the 3.0.1 service pack please contact me directly ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and I'll make they get addressed. Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: AJ W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! I hope that New Atlanta has worked on the compatibility problems I was seeing last year. I was quick to try out Blue Dragon as an alternate to CFMX Linux, primarily because CFMX at that time did not run very well w/ Linux. After a month or so with BD I hung up that hat and went back to CF5. There was WAY too many tags that either weren't supported or were supported partially. Probably the largest frustration was the problem with how BD would interpret variables sent with or w/o quotes. It would choke on them in a bad way and also it didn't have the forgiveness of CF to interpret character types. But, as I told them, I hope that they do eventually present a compatible product so that we can send Macromedia a message or two. :-} ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
My apologies--CFMX does indeed offer similar capabilities as BlueDragon in
this regard. It was an oversight on my part, and not a deliberate attempt to
mislead.
Note that the BlueDragon implementation is via the new PAGE attribute of the
CFINCLUDE tag (and not via the GetPageContext function), which allows you to
include the output of JSP pages or servlets in a CFML page:
cfinclude page=header.jsp
cfinclude page=/servlet/myServlet
BlueDragon also implement a new CFFORWARD tag to do a server-side redirect
equivalent to CFMX's GetPageContext().forward():
cfforward page=nextpage.cfm
cfforward page=nextpage.jsp
Details of CFINCLUDE, CFFORWARD, and other CFML enhancements introduced by
BlueDragon (such as the CFIMAP tag) are in the BlueDragon CFML Compatibility
Guide:
http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/self_help/docs/index.cfm
Anyone's who's interested in learning more about the CFML/Java/JSP
integration features offered by BlueDragon will be interested in attending
my talk at the upcoming MXNorth conference:
http://www.mxnorth.com/speakers.cfm?ID=16
BTW, we plan to add support for GetPageContext() in BlueDragon 3.1 in order
to provide compatibility with CFMX, but we still like our implementation
better. :-)
Vince Bonfanti
New Atlanta Communications, LLC
http://www.newatlanta.com
-Original Message-
From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 10:22 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
On Friday, Feb 21, 2003, at 13:49 US/Pacific, Vince Bonfanti wrote:
In this case we're using the BlueDragon/J2EE edition
running within a
standard J2EE WAR file side-by-side with the JSP pages. In
fact, some
of the common page elements (headers, footers, menu bars) are
implemented via CFINCLUDE of JSP pages, demonstrating a unique
CFML/JSP integration feature offered only by BlueDragon.
That's not unique - CFMX allows you to include JSP pages:
cfm.cfm:
cfoutput
We're in CFML.br /
cfset getPageContext().include('jsp.jsp')
We're back in CFML.br /
/cfoutput
jsp.jsp:
% String s = new String(JSP); %
This is a %= s % page.br /
This produces:
We're in CFML.
This is a JSP page.
We're back in CFML.
Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive.
-- Margaret Atwood
~|
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Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
Vince, I apologize if I missed your response on this, but my question was if CFMX and BlueDragon can co-exist on a development server for testing and maybe access blue dragon on a port other that 80? Thanks, Frank Mamone - Original Message - From: Vince Bonfanti [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 10:11 AM Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Yes, we've made significant strides based on feedback from customers like you. If you continue to have problems with the 3.0.1 service pack please contact me directly ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and I'll make they get addressed. Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: AJ W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! I hope that New Atlanta has worked on the compatibility problems I was seeing last year. I was quick to try out Blue Dragon as an alternate to CFMX Linux, primarily because CFMX at that time did not run very well w/ Linux. After a month or so with BD I hung up that hat and went back to CF5. There was WAY too many tags that either weren't supported or were supported partially. Probably the largest frustration was the problem with how BD would interpret variables sent with or w/o quotes. It would choke on them in a bad way and also it didn't have the forgiveness of CF to interpret character types. But, as I told them, I hope that they do eventually present a compatible product so that we can send Macromedia a message or two. :-} ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
Yes CFMX and BlueDragon (and CF5) can all peacefully co-exist on the same machine. CFMX has a built-in web server that runs on port 8500 by default. BlueDragon Server has a built-in web server that runs on port 8080 by default--as long as you don't have anything already installed using port 8080 (such as Tomcat) you'll be OK. You can also specify a port other than 8080 when installing BlueDragon. The only conflict to watch out for is when you go to install a web server adapter to IIS or Apache--in that case you can only have one of BlueDragon/CFMX/CF5 attached to the web server. Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Frank Mamone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:44 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Vince, I apologize if I missed your response on this, but my question was if CFMX and BlueDragon can co-exist on a development server for testing and maybe access blue dragon on a port other that 80? Thanks, Frank Mamone ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
-Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 2:27 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Wow. The 'free' part doesn't extend to a production box, right? Not sure about the definition of 'deployment'. Hi Matt, Indeed it does extend to production! The only restriction is on redistribution. From: http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/product_info/pricing.cfm Deployment Licensing: The base version of BlueDragon Server is FREE for deployment, with restrictions only on redistribution*. Prior license purchases of BlueDragon Server will be upgraded for free to BlueDragon Server JX. Please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] to receive your free upgrade. *Redistribution of BlueDragon as part of a packaged application requires a VAR/OEM Licensing Agreement with New Atlanta. For more details on New Atlanta's VAR/OEM licensing program, please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please be sure to read the pages on CFML Tag Support, http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/product_info/cfml_tag_support. cfm Feature Comparisons http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/product_info/features.cfm BlueDragon CFML Compatibility Guide http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/self_help/docs/index.cfm section for additional details. Regards, Dan Ganter New Atlanta Communications, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
Yes, absolutely it extends to a production box. You may use the BlueDragon Server free edition however you want, for no charge. The only thing you can't do is redistribute it--for that you'll need an OEM/VAR agreement (pricing will be very reasonable, or even free depending on what you want to do). Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 2:27 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Wow. The 'free' part doesn't extend to a production box, right? Not sure about the definition of 'deployment'. Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, which never had any validity in the first place. All sorts of implications here. Sure would like to see a lot of new cfml developers enter the world as we know it. Interesting times :) Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:59 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Yes, absolutely it extends to a production box. You may use the BlueDragon Server free edition however you want, for no charge. The only thing you can't do is redistribute it--for that you'll need an OEM/VAR agreement (pricing will be very reasonable, or even free depending on what you want to do). Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 2:27 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Wow. The 'free' part doesn't extend to a production box, right? Not sure about the definition of 'deployment'. Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
Unfortunately, as long as the extensibility of the free version is pretty much non-existent, it's only place will be small limited scope projects. -- jon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Friday, February 21, 2003, 1:53:55 PM, you wrote: MR This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, MR which never had any validity in the first place. All sorts of MR implications here. Sure would like to see a lot of new cfml developers MR enter the world as we know it. MR Interesting times :) MR MR Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MR MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com MR MR -Original Message- MR From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] MR Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:59 AM MR To: CF-Talk MR Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! MR Yes, absolutely it extends to a production box. You may use the MR BlueDragon MR Server free edition however you want, for no charge. The only thing you MR can't do is redistribute it--for that you'll need an OEM/VAR agreement MR (pricing will be very reasonable, or even free depending on what you MR want to MR do). MR Vince Bonfanti MR New Atlanta Communications, LLC MR http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 2:27 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Wow. The 'free' part doesn't extend to a production box, right? Not sure about the definition of 'deployment'. Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com MR ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
I don't think you will ever kill that argument. There are some people who - for whatever reason - think ALL commercial software is the tool of the devil, and if you try to sell code you are commiting a mortal sin. They will NEVER be convinced otherwise. (Or so it seems.) === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Mindseye, Inc Member of Team Macromedia Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog : www.camdenfamily.com/morpheus/blog Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda -Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 12:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, which never had any validity in the first place. All sorts of implications here. Sure would like to see a lot of new cfml developers enter the world as we know it. Interesting times :) ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
Will be interesting to see what kind of traction BlueDragon gets in the marketplace. And if it suceeds, what kind of pricing pressure this puts on MM. And one could argue that if it causes sufficient pricing pressure, MM might have to respond in a way that reduces their revenue and therefore cash available for future enhancements to CF. Ken -Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 1:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, which never had any validity in the first place. All sorts of implications here. Sure would like to see a lot of new cfml developers enter the world as we know it. Interesting times :) Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:59 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Yes, absolutely it extends to a production box. You may use the BlueDragon Server free edition however you want, for no charge. The only thing you can't do is redistribute it--for that you'll need an OEM/VAR agreement (pricing will be very reasonable, or even free depending on what you want to do). Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 2:27 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Wow. The 'free' part doesn't extend to a production box, right? Not sure about the definition of 'deployment'. Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Installation Advice (was: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!)
Are there any issues with installing Blue Dragon on an existing W2K, IIS, CF4.5.2 box? or will it be a clean install? Eric From: jon hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:01:40 -0500 Unfortunately, as long as the extensibility of the free version is pretty much non-existent, it's only place will be small limited scope projects. -- jon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Friday, February 21, 2003, 1:53:55 PM, you wrote: MR This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, MR which never had any validity in the first place. All sorts of MR implications here. Sure would like to see a lot of new cfml developers MR enter the world as we know it. MR Interesting times :) MR MR Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MR MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com MR MR -Original Message- MR From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] MR Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:59 AM MR To: CF-Talk MR Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! MR Yes, absolutely it extends to a production box. You may use the MR BlueDragon MR Server free edition however you want, for no charge. The only thing you MR can't do is redistribute it--for that you'll need an OEM/VAR agreement MR (pricing will be very reasonable, or even free depending on what you MR want to MR do). MR Vince Bonfanti MR New Atlanta Communications, LLC MR http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 2:27 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Wow. The 'free' part doesn't extend to a production box, right? Not sure about the definition of 'deployment'. Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com MR ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Installation Advice (was: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!)
Eric Dawson wrote: Are there any issues with installing Blue Dragon on an existing W2K, IIS, CF4.5.2 box? or will it be a clean install? I would recommend a standalone install, shouldn't give any problems. Then you should be able to verify your code works using the BlueDragon internal webserver, and only change the mappings in IIS from CF 4.5 to BlueDragon when you are happy with the test results. Exactly the same procedure as I would recommend for CF MX. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! (It is all about competition)
Will be interesting to see what kind of traction BlueDragon gets in the marketplace. And if it suceeds(sic), what kind of pricing pressure this puts on MM. And one could argue that if it causes sufficient pricing pressure, MM might have to respond in a way that reduces their revenue and therefore cash available for future enhancements to CF. That sentiment is a double-edged sword. No one owns the syntax of the CFML markup language, anyone can implement ColdFusion in their products (as long as it properly done). True competition is the breeding ground for innovation IMO. If Macromedia is forced to earn its market leading position in the CF market, then it will have to put out a better product. It is ok to charge for the product: it just has to be better. I will keep on using the official MM version as long as they stay innovative and allow for true competition. Choice is a boon in the software world. With choice you can pick one vendor or another, whichever suits your needs best. If one company owns the CF world you get to lap up whatever they send your way. Sure, MM responds to community feedback, and it is in their best interests to do what benefits their developers. That still doesn't change the fact that a single entity is responsible for providing CF to the CF development world in a uni-vendor scenario. Granted that is how it has been for a long time with CF, it doesn't have to be and the entrance of other players is fine with me. You end up with a Microsoft when you encourage behaviors like snubbing competitors by intentionally breaking compatibility with competition. Saying that, because MM must compete it might provide them with less revenue for enhancements, leads down a slippery slope in my opinion. In a market leading position it is *easy* to snub the competition and break their products and create a sufficient rift in the vendor compatibility. When people want the a version of CF compatible with the official (undocumented/authentic) version of CF you have one choice for a vendor again. By keeping CF innovate, fresh, and better MM will stay competitive, in the lead, and keep CF developers happy by providing more and more features to keep the product relevant. If they make a lot less money because some competitor is getting some of their revenue that says to me they are losing their competitive edge. In that situation others are choosing to use a different platform for some reason. The very existence of other platforms people are buying into is better in my opinion than blindly filling the MM coffers for future enhancements. It is an enhancement to the CF marketplace for consumers to have a choice with what vendor provides them their CF platform. Jeremy ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, which never had any validity in the first place. I don't know if I'd go as far as that. First of all, BlueDragon != CFMX. Second, there's validity to the argument that free software is better than non-free software, all other things being equal. Of course, in the real world, all other things usually aren't equal. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
At 01:01 PM 2/21/03 -0600, Raymond Camden wrote: I don't think you will ever kill that argument. There are some people who - for whatever reason - think ALL commercial software is the tool of the devil, and if you try to sell code you are commiting a mortal sin. They will NEVER be convinced otherwise. (Or so it seems.) That's true. How do people like that make money? T ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
Part of me is elated and part of me has the shivers. We'll just have to sit and watch. With multiple *viable* platforms any manner of outcomes are possible. Viable doesn't just mean technically sound, or even superior. Have seen some great products flushed to neverland via poor marketing or ill-conceived pricing strategies. I was pretty ticked to see CF go back up in price late last yr. Seemed like a mystifying move in the wrong direction at the time, and now... Like I said, interesting times. --- Matt Robertson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com --- -- Original Message -- From: Ken Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:16:52 -0500 Will be interesting to see what kind of traction BlueDragon gets in the marketplace. And if it suceeds, what kind of pricing pressure this puts on MM. And one could argue that if it causes sufficient pricing pressure, MM might have to respond in a way that reduces their revenue and therefore cash available for future enhancements to CF. Ken -Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 1:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, which never had any validity in the first place. All sorts of implications here. Sure would like to see a lot of new cfml developers enter the world as we know it. Interesting times :) Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:59 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Yes, absolutely it extends to a production box. You may use the BlueDragon Server free edition however you want, for no charge. The only thing you can't do is redistribute it--for that you'll need an OEM/VAR agreement (pricing will be very reasonable, or even free depending on what you want to do). Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 2:27 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Wow. The 'free' part doesn't extend to a production box, right? Not sure about the definition of 'deployment'. Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
At 01:01 PM 2/21/03 -0600, Raymond Camden wrote: I don't think you will ever kill that argument. There are some people who - for whatever reason - think ALL commercial software is the tool of the devil, and if you try to sell code you are commiting a mortal sin. They will NEVER be convinced otherwise. (Or so it seems.) That's true. How do people like that make money? They make their money in some other way and programming to them is a hobby. Or they give away free software in the hopes of creating a reputation for themselves which will help them sell the service of software development / integration for in-house projects for large corporations, small contracts, or just plain landing a good job. I do that myself ( http://www.turnkey.to/tapi ) although I also sell software licenses. I suspect the thinking is that because software can be distributed for free (if you really wanted to you could distribute software via a Geocities, Angelfire or Tripod website) that all software licensing should also be free, leaving any and all competition between consultants over money spent on services rendered. In other words, if it doesn't cost you anything, don't charge anything. Even free software costs something to the person developing it (time) but I think they rationalize that expense as the cost of doing business -- marketing dollars essentially. Though with it now being horribly easy to hire programmers from India or the Phillipines I wonder that the consultant cowboy is apt to be hardest hit by future shifts in power when the software they've spent so many hours developing as a marketing effort is being implemented more often by people who will do their job for 1/3rd of their wage. s. isaac dealey954-776-0046 new epoch http://www.turnkey.to lead architect, tapestry cms http://products.turnkey.to tapestry api is opensource http://www.turnkey.to/tapi certified advanced coldfusion 5 developer http://www.macromedia.com/v1/handlers/index.cfm?ID=21816 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
I guess once I've finished implementing multiple languages for Tapestry (soon I hope) I need to investigate a VAR agreement with New Atlanta so I can start distributing self-installing CD's. Part of me is elated and part of me has the shivers. We'll just have to sit and watch. With multiple *viable* platforms any manner of outcomes are possible. Viable doesn't just mean technically sound, or even superior. Have seen some great products flushed to neverland via poor marketing or ill-conceived pricing strategies. I was pretty ticked to see CF go back up in price late last yr. Seemed like a mystifying move in the wrong direction at the time, and now... Like I said, interesting times. --- Matt Robertson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com --- -- Original Message -- From: Ken Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:16:52 -0500 Will be interesting to see what kind of traction BlueDragon gets in the marketplace. And if it suceeds, what kind of pricing pressure this puts on MM. And one could argue that if it causes sufficient pricing pressure, MM might have to respond in a way that reduces their revenue and therefore cash available for future enhancements to CF. Ken -Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 1:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, which never had any validity in the first place. All sorts of implications here. Sure would like to see a lot of new cfml developers enter the world as we know it. Interesting times :) Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:59 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Yes, absolutely it extends to a production box. You may use the BlueDragon Server free edition however you want, for no charge. The only thing you can't do is redistribute it--for that you'll need an OEM/VAR agreement (pricing will be very reasonable, or even free depending on what you want to do). Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Matt Robertson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 2:27 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Wow. The 'free' part doesn't extend to a production box, right? Not sure about the definition of 'deployment'. Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com ~~ ~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index. cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/uns ubscribe.cfm?user=633.558.4 s. isaac dealey954-776-0046 new epoch http://www.turnkey.to lead architect, tapestry cms http://products.turnkey.to tapestry api is opensource http://www.turnkey.to/tapi certified advanced coldfusion 5 developer http://www.macromedia.com/v1/handlers/index.cfm?ID=21816 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
maybe its just me but I find it interesting when companies offer a product but then they use a different product to deliver it to you. What I mean is that take bluedragon for example, obviously its a cfm app but they are using jsp. While I realize that cfmx can use jsp, I wasn't aware that blue dragon could. maybe im just crazy but I notice things like that. kinda like if you are buying a honda but you see the sales manager driving a toyota, if its so great, then why aren't they using it? I'm not knocking bluedragon just something that I notice but it would also probably keep me from even trying it out. Dave - Original Message - From: Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, which never had any validity in the first place. I don't know if I'd go as far as that. First of all, BlueDragon != CFMX. Second, there's validity to the argument that free software is better than non-free software, all other things being equal. Of course, in the real world, all other things usually aren't equal. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
I totally hear you with that one. Although it could well be that their needs are such that JSP/Servlets is a better choice, and so they are marketing a product to an audience that they themselves are not a member of. Still, since they're obviously running a J2EE server (which BD will run on) it seems like they'd at least do the product site in cfm via BD for this exact reason. barneyb -Original Message- From: Dave Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 1:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! maybe its just me but I find it interesting when companies offer a product but then they use a different product to deliver it to you. What I mean is that take bluedragon for example, obviously its a cfm app but they are using jsp. While I realize that cfmx can use jsp, I wasn't aware that blue dragon could. maybe im just crazy but I notice things like that. kinda like if you are buying a honda but you see the sales manager driving a toyota, if its so great, then why aren't they using it? I'm not knocking bluedragon just something that I notice but it would also probably keep me from even trying it out. Dave - Original Message - From: Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, which never had any validity in the first place. I don't know if I'd go as far as that. First of all, BlueDragon != CFMX. Second, there's validity to the argument that free software is better than non-free software, all other things being equal. Of course, in the real world, all other things usually aren't equal. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
If I understand correctly, and there's a very good chance that I don't, BD allows you to use the CFML language while using a Java App server instead of the CF App server. It basically allows you to embed CFML into JSP pages (or something like that). So, just because the file ends in JSP, it could still be written in CFML. -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 942-5378 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ -Original Message- From: Dave Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! maybe its just me but I find it interesting when companies offer a product but then they use a different product to deliver it to you. What I mean is that take bluedragon for example, obviously its a cfm app but they are using jsp. While I realize that cfmx can use jsp, I wasn't aware that blue dragon could. maybe im just crazy but I notice things like that. kinda like if you are buying a honda but you see the sales manager driving a toyota, if its so great, then why aren't they using it? I'm not knocking bluedragon just something that I notice but it would also probably keep me from even trying it out. Dave - Original Message - From: Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, which never had any validity in the first place. I don't know if I'd go as far as that. First of all, BlueDragon != CFMX. Second, there's validity to the argument that free software is better than non-free software, all other things being equal. Of course, in the real world, all other things usually aren't equal. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
i dont know enough about it to really know. It was just my immediate thought Dave - Original Message - From: Mosh Teitelbaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:19 PM Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! If I understand correctly, and there's a very good chance that I don't, BD allows you to use the CFML language while using a Java App server instead of the CF App server. It basically allows you to embed CFML into JSP pages (or something like that). So, just because the file ends in JSP, it could still be written in CFML. -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 942-5378 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ -Original Message- From: Dave Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! maybe its just me but I find it interesting when companies offer a product but then they use a different product to deliver it to you. What I mean is that take bluedragon for example, obviously its a cfm app but they are using jsp. While I realize that cfmx can use jsp, I wasn't aware that blue dragon could. maybe im just crazy but I notice things like that. kinda like if you are buying a honda but you see the sales manager driving a toyota, if its so great, then why aren't they using it? I'm not knocking bluedragon just something that I notice but it would also probably keep me from even trying it out. Dave - Original Message - From: Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, which never had any validity in the first place. I don't know if I'd go as far as that. First of all, BlueDragon != CFMX. Second, there's validity to the argument that free software is better than non-free software, all other things being equal. Of course, in the real world, all other things usually aren't equal. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
Hi Dave, I think your delivery inference means that our download page is a JSP, which is correct: http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/download.jsp However, that's merely due to legacy JSP code leveraged across all product downloads, including ServletExec and JTurbo. New Atlanta's website runs BlueDragon/J2EE on top of ServletExec, with the entire site deployed within a J2EE archive (WAR file). Our hybrid JSP/CFML website runs JSPs for most sections (again, legacy..), but the BlueDragon section is CFML. And if we had to re-write it all from scratch, I'm sure the entire site would be CFML. Most pages beneath the BlueDragon main products page: http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/index.cfm on down are CFML pages rendered by BlueDragon. I think showing both technologies side-by-side is very effective, and in our case reflects a real world situation when maintaining a site over a long period of time We crave our own dogfood here ;-) Regards, Dan Dan Ganter New Atlanta Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Dave Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! maybe its just me but I find it interesting when companies offer a product but then they use a different product to deliver it to you. What I mean is that take bluedragon for example, obviously its a cfm app but they are using jsp. While I realize that cfmx can use jsp, I wasn't aware that blue dragon could. maybe im just crazy but I notice things like that. kinda like if you are buying a honda but you see the sales manager driving a toyota, if its so great, then why aren't they using it? I'm not knocking bluedragon just something that I notice but it would also probably keep me from even trying it out. Dave - Original Message - From: Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, which never had any validity in the first place. I don't know if I'd go as far as that. First of all, BlueDragon != CFMX. Second, there's validity to the argument that free software is better than non-free software, all other things being equal. Of course, in the real world, all other things usually aren't equal. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
its like i said, i wasnt trying to knock it. It was just my first reaction. But i knew if i posted it here it would get clarified. I'm more of a business man than a developer so i tend to look at things like that. :) Dave - Original Message - From: Daniel Ganter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:29 PM Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! Hi Dave, I think your delivery inference means that our download page is a JSP, which is correct: http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/download.jsp However, that's merely due to legacy JSP code leveraged across all product downloads, including ServletExec and JTurbo. New Atlanta's website runs BlueDragon/J2EE on top of ServletExec, with the entire site deployed within a J2EE archive (WAR file). Our hybrid JSP/CFML website runs JSPs for most sections (again, legacy..), but the BlueDragon section is CFML. And if we had to re-write it all from scratch, I'm sure the entire site would be CFML. Most pages beneath the BlueDragon main products page: http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/index.cfm on down are CFML pages rendered by BlueDragon. I think showing both technologies side-by-side is very effective, and in our case reflects a real world situation when maintaining a site over a long period of time We crave our own dogfood here ;-) Regards, Dan Dan Ganter New Atlanta Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Dave Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! maybe its just me but I find it interesting when companies offer a product but then they use a different product to deliver it to you. What I mean is that take bluedragon for example, obviously its a cfm app but they are using jsp. While I realize that cfmx can use jsp, I wasn't aware that blue dragon could. maybe im just crazy but I notice things like that. kinda like if you are buying a honda but you see the sales manager driving a toyota, if its so great, then why aren't they using it? I'm not knocking bluedragon just something that I notice but it would also probably keep me from even trying it out. Dave - Original Message - From: Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! This finally kills dead all of that php/asp 'but its free' garbage, which never had any validity in the first place. I don't know if I'd go as far as that. First of all, BlueDragon != CFMX. Second, there's validity to the argument that free software is better than non-free software, all other things being equal. Of course, in the real world, all other things usually aren't equal. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
New Atlanta's web site is built entirely using New Atlanta technology. The J2EE Server is our ServletExec JSP/Servlet product, so it's entirely appropriate that portions of our web site are implemented using JSP (just as portions of Macromedia's web site are implemented in JSP on top of JRun). All database access is to Microsoft SQL Server via our JTurbo JDBC driver (which is bundled with BlueDragon). And, yes, most of the BlueDragon portion of our web site is running on BlueDragon: http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/index.cfm In this case we're using the BlueDragon/J2EE edition running within a standard J2EE WAR file side-by-side with the JSP pages. In fact, some of the common page elements (headers, footers, menu bars) are implemented via CFINCLUDE of JSP pages, demonstrating a unique CFML/JSP integration feature offered only by BlueDragon. Session variables are also shared across CFML and JSP pages. Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com -Original Message- From: Barney Boisvert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:16 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released! I totally hear you with that one. Although it could well be that their needs are such that JSP/Servlets is a better choice, and so they are marketing a product to an audience that they themselves are not a member of. Still, since they're obviously running a J2EE server (which BD will run on) it seems like they'd at least do the product site in cfm via BD for this exact reason. barneyb ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
I hope that New Atlanta has worked on the compatibility problems I was seeing last year. I was quick to try out Blue Dragon as an alternate to CFMX Linux, primarily because CFMX at that time did not run very well w/ Linux. After a month or so with BD I hung up that hat and went back to CF5. There was WAY too many tags that either weren't supported or were supported partially. Probably the largest frustration was the problem with how BD would interpret variables sent with or w/o quotes. It would choke on them in a bad way and also it didn't have the forgiveness of CF to interpret character types. But, as I told them, I hope that they do eventually present a compatible product so that we can send Macromedia a message or two. :-} ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
I hope that New Atlanta has worked on the compatibility problems I was seeing last year. I was quick to try out Blue Dragon as an alternate to CFMX Linux, primarily because CFMX at that time did not run very well w/ Linux. After a month or so with BD I hung up that hat and went back to CF5. Has MM weeded out most of those problems with MX in the 2 updaters? There was WAY too many tags that either weren't supported or were supported partially. Probably the largest frustration was the problem with how BD would interpret variables sent with or w/o quotes. It would choke on them in a bad way Imho any good tag-based language engine _will_ choke to death (or better gracefully :) on unquoted variables. So for my part I see this as a failing on the part of Allaire / MM. Flash I think does a good job by refusing to acknowledge unquoted attributes in it's imported html. Now if we could just convince M$ and the other big players in the wysiwyg editor department that attributes should be quoted, we'd be good. :) and also it didn't have the forgiveness of CF to interpret character types. But, as I told them, I hope that they do eventually present a compatible product so that we can send Macromedia a message or two. :-} I don't know about sending MM a message. But for my part it'd be nice to be able to distribute self-installing CD's with my CMS and I'm hoping I can get it to work on BD (preferably with a single codebase) since I'm more inclined to think that New Atlanta will be more appreciative of having me as a VAR than MM will. s. isaac dealey954-776-0046 new epoch http://www.turnkey.to lead architect, tapestry cms http://products.turnkey.to tapestry api is opensource http://www.turnkey.to/tapi certified advanced coldfusion 5 developer http://www.macromedia.com/v1/handlers/index.cfm?ID=21816 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
On Friday, Feb 21, 2003, at 13:49 US/Pacific, Vince Bonfanti wrote:
In this case we're using the BlueDragon/J2EE edition running within a
standard J2EE WAR file side-by-side with the JSP pages. In fact, some
of the
common page elements (headers, footers, menu bars) are implemented via
CFINCLUDE of JSP pages, demonstrating a unique CFML/JSP integration
feature
offered only by BlueDragon.
That's not unique - CFMX allows you to include JSP pages:
cfm.cfm:
cfoutput
We're in CFML.br /
cfset getPageContext().include('jsp.jsp')
We're back in CFML.br /
/cfoutput
jsp.jsp:
% String s = new String(JSP); %
This is a %= s % page.br /
This produces:
We're in CFML.
This is a JSP page.
We're back in CFML.
Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive.
-- Margaret Atwood
~|
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FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
New Atlanta is pleased to announce the release of the BlueDragon 3.0.1 service pack, including the FREE BlueDragon Server edition, available for immediate download: http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/download.jsp New Atlanta is also pleased to make the formal announcement of BlueDragon for .NET: http://www.newatlanta.com/promo/bluedragon/bluedragon3_01/BDemail.html Regards, Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: FREE BlueDragon Server Released!
Wow. The 'free' part doesn't extend to a production box, right? Not sure about the definition of 'deployment'. Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
