RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I think that's a great idea Baz. Makes perfect sense to me. Pay for the features you need as you grow. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Baz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:21 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta I definitely don't think limiting features is the way to go. In fact I would like to see the opposite happen. Right now we have CFStandard and CFEnterprise, which are 2 totally different products, with different installs, paths and administration. Adding a CFFree to the mix with more limitations and idiosyncrasies is just going to make things more confusing. There should only be one CFServer that has ALL functionality including gateways. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:235195 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I definitely don't think limiting features is the way to go. In fact I would like to see the opposite happen. Right now we have CFStandard and CFEnterprise, which are 2 totally different products, with different installs, paths and administration. Adding a CFFree to the mix with more limitations and idiosyncrasies is just going to make things more confusing. There should only be one CFServer that has ALL functionality including gateways. The pricing should perhaps be more granular, such as: -0$: limited to 3 IPs (like developer edition today) - 500$: max of 1 instance/sandbox (similar to CF Standard is today) - 1000$: max of 2-5 instances/sandboxes - 2000$: max of 5-20 instances/sandboxes - 3000$: max of 20-50 instances/sandboxes - 4000$: unlimited instances/sandboxes (like CF Enterprise is today) At least like this small shops will be more encouraged to implement secure environments using sandboxes without having to dish out 5K. Perhaps a free version could be limited to 3 concurrent connections (rather than 3 IPs) so that small sites who can't pay can get up and running. When they start to get popular and grow, it will be a no-brainer to dish out 500$ or 1000$ to upgrade, instead of recoding the whole site in PHP to avoid it: - 0$: limited to 3 concurrent connections Just some thoughts, Baz ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:235129 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Right now we have CFStandard and CFEnterprise, which are 2 totally different products, with different installs, paths and administration. This isn't quite accurate. The primary difference between installs isn't between CF Standard and Enterprise, but between a J2EE and a standalone server install, both of which can be done with Enterprise. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:235144 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Right, the only difference really is that and what serial number you put in. You can install cf standard and then put in a new enterprise serial number and it just starts working as enterprise, with no reinstall. On 3/12/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right now we have CFStandard and CFEnterprise, which are 2 totally different products, with different installs, paths and administration. This isn't quite accurate. The primary difference between installs isn't between CF Standard and Enterprise, but between a J2EE and a standalone server install, both of which can be done with Enterprise. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:235145 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I actually did not know that. Things just got a lot nicer... -Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Right, the only difference really is that and what serial number you put in. You can install cf standard and then put in a new enterprise serial number and it just starts working as enterprise, with no reinstall. On 3/12/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right now we have CFStandard and CFEnterprise, which are 2 totally different products, with different installs, paths and administration. This isn't quite accurate. The primary difference between installs isn't between CF Standard and Enterprise, but between a J2EE and a standalone server install, both of which can be done with Enterprise. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:235146 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Yeah, it is a very nice feature. In fact, you can install the developer edition and then later when you buy the server just put in the serial number and it just removes all of the restrictions. On 3/12/06, Baz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually did not know that. Things just got a lot nicer... -Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Right, the only difference really is that and what serial number you put in. You can install cf standard and then put in a new enterprise serial number and it just starts working as enterprise, with no reinstall. On 3/12/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right now we have CFStandard and CFEnterprise, which are 2 totally different products, with different installs, paths and administration. This isn't quite accurate. The primary difference between installs isn't between CF Standard and Enterprise, but between a J2EE and a standalone server install, both of which can be done with Enterprise. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:235147 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Rick, That is not the plan for CFEclipse, it wont (as far as I am concerned) do any WYSIWYG functions in the near future but there will be a lot of improvements and functions going in over the next few months. Its simply not our focus, since we dont particularly want to compete with DW MD On 1 Mar 2006, at 15:39, Rick Faircloth wrote: So...what combination of development tools and the compiler would make Flex 2 not free...? And what did he show about CFEclipse that was so great? I don't use it, so I'm not that familiar with it. I'm a WYSIWYG interface developer and I code around that, so I perfer WYSIWYG tools. Will CFEclipse have a WYSIWYG environment in upcoming versions? Thanks for the info... Rick -Original Message- From: Brad Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:26 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Flex 2 and Ben Forta I just saw Ben Forta speak last night at a Kansas City user group about Flex 2 and I am sooo excited. I think there's a chance we can actually convince my boss to go for it now. One thing I didn't know that Ben said: If you wanted to code your markup in notepad and download the flash compiler for free, you could be using flex 2.0 for absolutely free. Of course, I don't know how you could stand to do that with the sweet stuff he was showing us in CFEclipse. :) ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:235052 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Yes. That is correct. The Flex Framework and compiler will be free, and don't require the Flex server to integrate with ColdFusion. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dave Watts wrote: According to my understanding, you don't necessarily have to purchase any server component at all. You can use Flex to talk to CF applications, web services, etc. without any server component. The optional server component is very impressive, though - it provides some very useful pieces of functionality, like the ability to tie into JMS very easily. As for your not-for-profit development team, Adobe may offer alternative pricing for different sorts of organizations, so you may be able to get it cheaper than I can. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:234029 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Free use for those who never copy, modify or distribute. As long as you never distribute the MySQL Software in any way, you are free to use it for powering your application, irrespective of whether your application is under GPL license or not. It's probably obvious, but I wanted to make it clear that 'distribute' does not refer to putting MySQL behind a public facing web application. But if you wanted to ship CDs (or downloadable binaries), and include MySQL with your application, you'd have to buy a license. I'm not sure if you could ship it without MySQL, but state that it is required and then point your customers to the MySQL website (and thus avoid a license charge). Seems like a gray area/loophole. Heck, last I checked the licenses are pretty cheap anyway. :) - This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:234049 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Rick, A full version of studio is $800. A full version of Adobe creative suite is $1200. Upgrades of course are much less expensive. People are already working on alternatives using primalScript and ANT. For me, I have already set aside my $1000. Adobe's will be the best for sure and will be the only one with a visual design component similar to dreamweaver. And from what I have seen, it is quite useful. To each there own. Mark -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta It's hard for me to believe an IDE would be worth $1000 (oh, excuse, me $999, which is less than $1000 :P ) Most design software, whether it's for web design, as in Dreamweaver, photo manipulation, as in Photoshop, graphics, as in Illustrator, etc., is not even that much...most of it not anywhere near $1000 unless you get everything in a bundle. Perhaps I'm just showing my ignorance about the Flex IDE, but with it priced so high (I don't, at this point, see how it could possibly be worth that much money), it's wide open for a company with hungrier developers to come in and sell something for half that and take a lot of business from Adobe and Flex...what makes it worth $1000? Rick ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233868 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
But Flex isn't C++ or Visual Studio, both of which have proved themselves over time. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Joe Rinehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Hey Rick, After using Flex Builder 2.0, I can't believe it's only $1,000. That's pretty dirt cheap in the world of enterprise software, much less development software - heck, one seat of Visual Studio 2005 Team Suite can be like $3.5k, and that's *cheap* compared to the price of some of the Borland modelling/development tools. -Joe On 3/1/06, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's hard for me to believe an IDE would be worth $1000 (oh, excuse, me $999, which is less than $1000 :P ) Most design software, whether it's for web design, as in Dreamweaver, photo manipulation, as in Photoshop, graphics, as in Illustrator, etc., is not even that much...most of it not anywhere near $1000 unless you get everything in a bundle. Perhaps I'm just showing my ignorance about the Flex IDE, but with it priced so high (I don't, at this point, see how it could possibly be worth that much money), it's wide open for a company with hungrier developers to come in and sell something for half that and take a lot of business from Adobe and Flex...what makes it worth $1000? Rick -Original Message- From: Brad Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:07 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Wonder how long it will be before someone just writes their own IDE or plug in for Eclipse and offers it for free, much like CFEclipse. Or is there something legally preventing that from happening? According to Ben Forta, there is nothing legally to keep someone from doing exactly that. As Ben put it, it would be very difficult to reproduce the entirety of the functionality they have put in Flex builder and he thinks enough people will still continue to pay for Adobe's IDE because of those features for a while. I am very interested to see what free-ware versions will come about, however. ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233875 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I'll give a thorough check-out...thanks for the info, Mark. Rick -Original Message- From: Mark Fuqua [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:55 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Rick, A full version of studio is $800. A full version of Adobe creative suite is $1200. Upgrades of course are much less expensive. People are already working on alternatives using primalScript and ANT. For me, I have already set aside my $1000. Adobe's will be the best for sure and will be the only one with a visual design component similar to dreamweaver. And from what I have seen, it is quite useful. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233876 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Mark... Just to be nitpicky...you can't compare full versions of Studio or CS because they each contain multiple programs, Studio has 5 and CS has 4. From what I've heard here, Flex is just...well...Flex. You're paying $1000 for one application. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Mark Fuqua [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 7:55 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Rick, A full version of studio is $800. A full version of Adobe creative suite is $1200. Upgrades of course are much less expensive. People are already working on alternatives using primalScript and ANT. For me, I have already set aside my $1000. Adobe's will be the best for sure and will be the only one with a visual design component similar to dreamweaver. And from what I have seen, it is quite useful. To each there own. Mark -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta It's hard for me to believe an IDE would be worth $1000 (oh, excuse, me $999, which is less than $1000 :P ) Most design software, whether it's for web design, as in Dreamweaver, photo manipulation, as in Photoshop, graphics, as in Illustrator, etc., is not even that much...most of it not anywhere near $1000 unless you get everything in a bundle. Perhaps I'm just showing my ignorance about the Flex IDE, but with it priced so high (I don't, at this point, see how it could possibly be worth that much money), it's wide open for a company with hungrier developers to come in and sell something for half that and take a lot of business from Adobe and Flex...what makes it worth $1000? Rick ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233879 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Rick, You need to see what Flex Builder does. If Ben makes it to an Users Group near you go see the presentation. I am pretty old fashioned, I don't use many visual tools unless I have to, so I still develop in Homesite and Eclipse but after seeing Flex Builder 2 I am now a big fan and starting to put aside cash for this. You will have to code the actions for the interface but things that would take a flash developer hours or days to do you can now do in minutes. Visit labs.adobe.com and download the beta and you too will become a believer! ;-) -- Donnie Bachan Website: http://www.que7.com Nitendo Vinces - By Striving You Shall Conquer == The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233882 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
It does seem expensive, especially given that from what I understand its basically a plugin for an open source program? Have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick here, is it more than that? On 3/2/06, Andy Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark... Just to be nitpicky...you can't compare full versions of Studio or CS because they each contain multiple programs, Studio has 5 and CS has 4. From what I've heard here, Flex is just...well...Flex. You're paying $1000 for one application. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Mark Fuqua [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 7:55 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Rick, A full version of studio is $800. A full version of Adobe creative suite is $1200. Upgrades of course are much less expensive. People are already working on alternatives using primalScript and ANT. For me, I have already set aside my $1000. Adobe's will be the best for sure and will be the only one with a visual design component similar to dreamweaver. And from what I have seen, it is quite useful. To each there own. Mark -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta It's hard for me to believe an IDE would be worth $1000 (oh, excuse, me $999, which is less than $1000 :P ) Most design software, whether it's for web design, as in Dreamweaver, photo manipulation, as in Photoshop, graphics, as in Illustrator, etc., is not even that much...most of it not anywhere near $1000 unless you get everything in a bundle. Perhaps I'm just showing my ignorance about the Flex IDE, but with it priced so high (I don't, at this point, see how it could possibly be worth that much money), it's wide open for a company with hungrier developers to come in and sell something for half that and take a lot of business from Adobe and Flex...what makes it worth $1000? Rick ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233885 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
It does seem expensive, especially given that from what I understand its basically a plugin for an open source program? Yes, that's all it is. However, it's one hell of a plugin. The problem that a lot of people seem to have when looking at software pricing is that they expect it to match the complexity or size of the application in question. This is silly. The value of a piece of software - like anything else - isn't derived from how big it is, or how complicated it is, but whether it saves you money that you'd otherwise spend doing things some other way. If you're interested in building Flex 2 applications - and I strongly encourage everyone to take a good look at Flex 2 - you can build them with your favorite text editor, or you can use FlexBuilder. Having worked with FlexBuilder myself, I'd buy it in a minute - it makes building Flex 2 applications so much simpler, that you'll recoup your labor costs in a week. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233891 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Answers in line On 3/2/06, Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It does seem expensive, especially given that from what I understand its basically a plugin for an open source program? Yes, that's all it is. However, it's one hell of a plugin. The problem that a lot of people seem to have when looking at software pricing is that they expect it to match the complexity or size of the application in question. This is silly. The value of a piece of software - like anything else - isn't derived from how big it is, or how complicated it is, but whether it saves you money that you'd otherwise spend doing things some other way. I do still think it's a bit of a cheek to charge the equivalent of a full app suite (or a new PC for that matter) for a plugin - no matter how wonderful it is. As to whether it would save me time/money thats a moot point. Flex 2 is not the only option out there, and wearing either of my hats (as an independent developer or as a member of a large dev team working for a not for profit) $1000 is a lot to spend per seat - especially as we would probably need the server as well. If you're interested in building Flex 2 applications - and I strongly encourage everyone to take a good look at Flex 2 - you can build them with your favorite text editor, or you can use FlexBuilder. Having worked with FlexBuilder myself, I'd buy it in a minute - it makes building Flex 2 applications so much simpler, that you'll recoup your labor costs in a week. I am interested in Flex2, I am also interested in Ajax and several other options - money will be a big part of any decisions made. To set up 2 servers and 12 developers to use Flex might be a very significant outlay. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233906 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Is there a single developer version that's less? No, I don't think there will be. However, the Flex framework itself - the compiler that builds Flex apps - will be free, if I understand correctly. But again, if the product saves you enough development time, $1000 isn't very much. I strongly encourage you to download the public beta and see what you think. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233907 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I've got the labs.adobe.com site open in a browser window...just waiting to have time to view the videos and read the white papers! Thanks for your feedback... Rick -Original Message- From: Donnie Bachan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Rick, You need to see what Flex Builder does. If Ben makes it to an Users Group near you go see the presentation. I am pretty old fashioned, I don't use many visual tools unless I have to, so I still develop in Homesite and Eclipse but after seeing Flex Builder 2 I am now a big fan and starting to put aside cash for this. You will have to code the actions for the interface but things that would take a flash developer hours or days to do you can now do in minutes. Visit labs.adobe.com and download the beta and you too will become a believer! ;-) ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233913 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
It some interesting stuff, I'd like to see more examples integrating it with CF. The one example I found ended up crashing my CF7 box when I tried to apply the updater for it to run, have yet to get back to trying to fix that installation. On 3/2/06, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've got the labs.adobe.com site open in a browser window...just waiting to have time to view the videos and read the white papers! Thanks for your feedback... Rick ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233917 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I do still think it's a bit of a cheek to charge the equivalent of a full app suite (or a new PC for that matter) for a plugin - no matter how wonderful it is. As to whether it would save me time/money thats a moot point. Flex 2 is not the only option out there, and wearing either of my hats (as an independent developer or as a member of a large dev team working for a not for profit) $1000 is a lot to spend per seat - especially as we would probably need the server as well. I don't really understand why it matters whether it's a plugin or a full app suite. What matters to me is what it allows you to do. I'd much rather pay $1000 for FlexBuilder as a plugin to Eclipse, which is somewhat of a known quantity, than have Adobe spend time and developer resources to build an entire IDE from scratch. They'd have to charge more for it just to cover their costs, and it probably wouldn't be nearly as good. And again, the only thing that should matter is whether it helps you deliver better applications faster, at least enough to offset the per-seat cost! And yes, Flex 2 is not the only option out there. But it's fundamentally different from the other options that are available. Based on what I've seen so far, I think it's quite a bit better than the other options. In my opinion, AJAX is hardly comparable to Flex 2 - and I've been working with AJAX (and AJAXish predecessor) applications for a long, long time. You don't need to listen to me, though. Download the open beta and see for yourself! I am interested in Flex2, I am also interested in Ajax and several other options - money will be a big part of any decisions made. To set up 2 servers and 12 developers to use Flex might be a very significant outlay. According to my understanding, you don't necessarily have to purchase any server component at all. You can use Flex to talk to CF applications, web services, etc. without any server component. The optional server component is very impressive, though - it provides some very useful pieces of functionality, like the ability to tie into JMS very easily. As for your not-for-profit development team, Adobe may offer alternative pricing for different sorts of organizations, so you may be able to get it cheaper than I can. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233918 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
So what about those of us who just don't like Eclipse? I've tried it several times and each time I return to my copy of Editplus wondering what all of you are raving about. I'm now knocking it, or you Dave, but it I don't care WHAT it can do, the fact is that it's competing against other stuff that can do the same thing and some of those options are free. It just seem a little excessive for Adobe to charge $999. Why not $500? Or even $600. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta I do still think it's a bit of a cheek to charge the equivalent of a full app suite (or a new PC for that matter) for a plugin - no matter how wonderful it is. As to whether it would save me time/money thats a moot point. Flex 2 is not the only option out there, and wearing either of my hats (as an independent developer or as a member of a large dev team working for a not for profit) $1000 is a lot to spend per seat - especially as we would probably need the server as well. I don't really understand why it matters whether it's a plugin or a full app suite. What matters to me is what it allows you to do. I'd much rather pay $1000 for FlexBuilder as a plugin to Eclipse, which is somewhat of a known quantity, than have Adobe spend time and developer resources to build an entire IDE from scratch. They'd have to charge more for it just to cover their costs, and it probably wouldn't be nearly as good. And again, the only thing that should matter is whether it helps you deliver better applications faster, at least enough to offset the per-seat cost! And yes, Flex 2 is not the only option out there. But it's fundamentally different from the other options that are available. Based on what I've seen so far, I think it's quite a bit better than the other options. In my opinion, AJAX is hardly comparable to Flex 2 - and I've been working with AJAX (and AJAXish predecessor) applications for a long, long time. You don't need to listen to me, though. Download the open beta and see for yourself! I am interested in Flex2, I am also interested in Ajax and several other options - money will be a big part of any decisions made. To set up 2 servers and 12 developers to use Flex might be a very significant outlay. According to my understanding, you don't necessarily have to purchase any server component at all. You can use Flex to talk to CF applications, web services, etc. without any server component. The optional server component is very impressive, though - it provides some very useful pieces of functionality, like the ability to tie into JMS very easily. As for your not-for-profit development team, Adobe may offer alternative pricing for different sorts of organizations, so you may be able to get it cheaper than I can. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233920 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Do you use coldfusion? You know it competes against other products that can do the same thing, and some of those options are free right? PHP, ASP, RoR, etc? Did you pay for the coldfusion server? or do you use a hosting plan that you pay for that costs more than some of the other options? Do you think that 12xx for coldfusion is excessive? Of course they could release coldfusion for less money, but it costs money to develop the software, to maintain it, to train on it, etc. They think 12xx for the server is a pretty good price and so do plenty of corporations / developers. The point is, that while you can get other software that may be cheaper or even free, its worth paying for because you are getting value for your money. While you may pay 1000 for flexbuilder, while you could get some other product for free, flexbuilder is going to allow you to do more faster, increasing your return on investment. Also, if you dont like eclipse, or flexbuilder, use whatever xml / actionscript editor you want. You can get the compiler and flex framework for free... Just realize that you aren't going to have the IDE thats going to make everything easier for you. But I dont see 1000 per developer as excessive at all for the power that you get out of flexbuilder. Truth is, i dont see why anyone is trying to convince you... If you dont use it, it just means less competition later... ;) On 3/2/06, Andy Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what about those of us who just don't like Eclipse? I've tried it several times and each time I return to my copy of Editplus wondering what all of you are raving about. I'm now knocking it, or you Dave, but it I don't care WHAT it can do, the fact is that it's competing against other stuff that can do the same thing and some of those options are free. It just seem a little excessive for Adobe to charge $999. Why not $500? Or even $600. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 got google talk? Chat me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com Use CF and SQL? Try qBrowser - http://www.ryanguill.com/docs/ www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233922 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Eclipse is not bad... it could use some improvement, and I'm guessing after whatever adobe contributed to eclipse gets released it will be even better, but it's good now... It was kind of buggy and still is in the 1.2 version (which is the final stable version posted on cfeclipse.org), but if you download the nightly build, it's much more user friendly (at least I feel it is). Russ -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:09 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta So what about those of us who just don't like Eclipse? I've tried it several times and each time I return to my copy of Editplus wondering what all of you are raving about. I'm now knocking it, or you Dave, but it I don't care WHAT it can do, the fact is that it's competing against other stuff that can do the same thing and some of those options are free. It just seem a little excessive for Adobe to charge $999. Why not $500? Or even $600. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta I do still think it's a bit of a cheek to charge the equivalent of a full app suite (or a new PC for that matter) for a plugin - no matter how wonderful it is. As to whether it would save me time/money thats a moot point. Flex 2 is not the only option out there, and wearing either of my hats (as an independent developer or as a member of a large dev team working for a not for profit) $1000 is a lot to spend per seat - especially as we would probably need the server as well. I don't really understand why it matters whether it's a plugin or a full app suite. What matters to me is what it allows you to do. I'd much rather pay $1000 for FlexBuilder as a plugin to Eclipse, which is somewhat of a known quantity, than have Adobe spend time and developer resources to build an entire IDE from scratch. They'd have to charge more for it just to cover their costs, and it probably wouldn't be nearly as good. And again, the only thing that should matter is whether it helps you deliver better applications faster, at least enough to offset the per-seat cost! And yes, Flex 2 is not the only option out there. But it's fundamentally different from the other options that are available. Based on what I've seen so far, I think it's quite a bit better than the other options. In my opinion, AJAX is hardly comparable to Flex 2 - and I've been working with AJAX (and AJAXish predecessor) applications for a long, long time. You don't need to listen to me, though. Download the open beta and see for yourself! I am interested in Flex2, I am also interested in Ajax and several other options - money will be a big part of any decisions made. To set up 2 servers and 12 developers to use Flex might be a very significant outlay. According to my understanding, you don't necessarily have to purchase any server component at all. You can use Flex to talk to CF applications, web services, etc. without any server component. The optional server component is very impressive, though - it provides some very useful pieces of functionality, like the ability to tie into JMS very easily. As for your not-for-profit development team, Adobe may offer alternative pricing for different sorts of organizations, so you may be able to get it cheaper than I can. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233923 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
and you would whine less if it was 600? Somehow I doubt it. Mark -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:09 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta So what about those of us who just don't like Eclipse? I've tried it several times and each time I return to my copy of Editplus wondering what all of you are raving about. I'm now knocking it, or you Dave, but it I don't care WHAT it can do, the fact is that it's competing against other stuff that can do the same thing and some of those options are free. It just seem a little excessive for Adobe to charge $999. Why not $500? Or even $600. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233924 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I am interested in Flex2, I am also interested in Ajax and several other options - money will be a big part of any decisions made. To set up 2 servers and 12 developers to use Flex might be a very significant outlay. I've had the same questions running through my mind. I used Ajax to build cfQuickDocs, and I loved it. One thing I do think that will be nice with Flex is cross platform compatibility. You build one app, and every client that has the flash player will run it. The one thing I'm not sure about is flash player versions. I think Linux people are still stuck with Flash Player 7, so if Flex requires the latest versions then some folks will be out. --- [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233926 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
TOAD? Oracle DB tool Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233925 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Actually, yes, I do think that $1200 for the server is excessive. Seeing as how CF is the ONLY language that makes you pay for the engine. PHP = free ASP = free (with the windows OS) Java = free ( I beleive ) Perl = free Python = free Ruby = free Are you seeing a pattern here? I personally LOVE Coldfusion and I'm not complaining about it at all. But I do think that it should be free, not because I don't see a value in it, but because I want CF to proliferate. It's such a great language that if it were free LOADS of people would be using it. Because WHY NOT? It's powerful, easy to use and fun. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Do you use coldfusion? You know it competes against other products that can do the same thing, and some of those options are free right? PHP, ASP, RoR, etc? Did you pay for the coldfusion server? or do you use a hosting plan that you pay for that costs more than some of the other options? Do you think that 12xx for coldfusion is excessive? Of course they could release coldfusion for less money, but it costs money to develop the software, to maintain it, to train on it, etc. They think 12xx for the server is a pretty good price and so do plenty of corporations / developers. The point is, that while you can get other software that may be cheaper or even free, its worth paying for because you are getting value for your money. While you may pay 1000 for flexbuilder, while you could get some other product for free, flexbuilder is going to allow you to do more faster, increasing your return on investment. Also, if you dont like eclipse, or flexbuilder, use whatever xml / actionscript editor you want. You can get the compiler and flex framework for free... Just realize that you aren't going to have the IDE thats going to make everything easier for you. But I dont see 1000 per developer as excessive at all for the power that you get out of flexbuilder. Truth is, i dont see why anyone is trying to convince you... If you dont use it, it just means less competition later... ;) On 3/2/06, Andy Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what about those of us who just don't like Eclipse? I've tried it several times and each time I return to my copy of Editplus wondering what all of you are raving about. I'm now knocking it, or you Dave, but it I don't care WHAT it can do, the fact is that it's competing against other stuff that can do the same thing and some of those options are free. It just seem a little excessive for Adobe to charge $999. Why not $500? Or even $600. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 got google talk? Chat me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com Use CF and SQL? Try qBrowser - http://www.ryanguill.com/docs/ www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233927 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
How is that when someone brings up VALID concerns about a software application it's considered whining? !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Mark Fuqua [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta and you would whine less if it was 600? Somehow I doubt it. Mark -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:09 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta So what about those of us who just don't like Eclipse? I've tried it several times and each time I return to my copy of Editplus wondering what all of you are raving about. I'm now knocking it, or you Dave, but it I don't care WHAT it can do, the fact is that it's competing against other stuff that can do the same thing and some of those options are free. It just seem a little excessive for Adobe to charge $999. Why not $500? Or even $600. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233928 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Did you not like Eclipse or CFEclipse? I personally do not care for CFEclipse, I randomly try it out and leave wondering what all the hype is about. I have used Flex Builder a little bit and was impressed with how it worked as a tool. If you do not like the price of Flex Builder you can still build Flex applications and for free you just use the compiler with whatever text editor you like. So I really do not see the issue here, you either spend whatever they decide to charge and potentially save that much money in regards to time saved on the first Flex project you do or you spend more time coding the same stuff in your preferred text editor then use the free compiler on that. On 3/2/06, Andy Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what about those of us who just don't like Eclipse? I've tried it several times and each time I return to my copy of Editplus wondering what all of you are raving about. I'm now knocking it, or you Dave, but it I don't care WHAT it can do, the fact is that it's competing against other stuff that can do the same thing and some of those options are free. It just seem a little excessive for Adobe to charge $999. Why not $500? Or even $600. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233931 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
So what about those of us who just don't like Eclipse? I've tried it several times and each time I return to my copy of Editplus wondering what all of you are raving about. I'm not a huge fan of Eclipse either. I can take it or leave it. The value that FlexBuilder 2 brings to the table isn't that it improves Eclipse. The fact is, Adobe had to start somewhere to provide the kind of IDE functionality that something like FlexBuilder 2 needs, and they didn't have suitable starting point in any of their existing products. If you ever tried to use FlexBuilder 1.5, which was built on Dreamweaver, I think you'd agree. I like Dreamweaver, but it simply doesn't fit the needs of something like FlexBuilder. I'm now knocking it, or you Dave, but it I don't care WHAT it can do, the fact is that it's competing against other stuff that can do the same thing and some of those options are free. It just seem a little excessive for Adobe to charge $999. Why not $500? Or even $600. I haven't seen anything that can do the same thing as Flex 2. I don't think anything yet exists. It's not an incremental improvement to web applications; it's something entirely different. As for how much exactly it'll cost, there hasn't been an announcement. All they've said so far is that it'll probably be under $1000. So everyone's assuming that it'll be $1000, but for all we know it could be any of those numbers you've given. For all we know, it could be $5. I don't think they've decided yet, frankly, but I don't know any more than you do. But again, you should really check it out for yourself, and see how much you think it's worth. After you've done this, you may well think that $1000 is more than fair. I don't think you'll find anything else that can do the same thing at any price. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233933 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Let me step back here and say that I'm probably coming across badly and I apologize. I tend to argue more than is necessary and for that I'm sorry. I'm excited about seeing this Flex application succeed. I love Macromedia products and I think that they can only get better. I want to look at it and see if it might be the solution for some of our clients, but at this point it's yet another thing I need to learn. I'm going as fast as I can, learning as much as is possible, but they keep coming out with new stuff. Anyway...sorry for the argumentative pose. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:36 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Actually, yes, I do think that $1200 for the server is excessive. Seeing as how CF is the ONLY language that makes you pay for the engine. PHP = free ASP = free (with the windows OS) Java = free ( I beleive ) Perl = free Python = free Ruby = free Are you seeing a pattern here? I personally LOVE Coldfusion and I'm not complaining about it at all. But I do think that it should be free, not because I don't see a value in it, but because I want CF to proliferate. It's such a great language that if it were free LOADS of people would be using it. Because WHY NOT? It's powerful, easy to use and fun. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Do you use coldfusion? You know it competes against other products that can do the same thing, and some of those options are free right? PHP, ASP, RoR, etc? Did you pay for the coldfusion server? or do you use a hosting plan that you pay for that costs more than some of the other options? Do you think that 12xx for coldfusion is excessive? Of course they could release coldfusion for less money, but it costs money to develop the software, to maintain it, to train on it, etc. They think 12xx for the server is a pretty good price and so do plenty of corporations / developers. The point is, that while you can get other software that may be cheaper or even free, its worth paying for because you are getting value for your money. While you may pay 1000 for flexbuilder, while you could get some other product for free, flexbuilder is going to allow you to do more faster, increasing your return on investment. Also, if you dont like eclipse, or flexbuilder, use whatever xml / actionscript editor you want. You can get the compiler and flex framework for free... Just realize that you aren't going to have the IDE thats going to make everything easier for you. But I dont see 1000 per developer as excessive at all for the power that you get out of flexbuilder. Truth is, i dont see why anyone is trying to convince you... If you dont use it, it just means less competition later... ;) On 3/2/06, Andy Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what about those of us who just don't like Eclipse? I've tried it several times and each time I return to my copy of Editplus wondering what all of you are raving about. I'm now knocking it, or you Dave, but it I don't care WHAT it can do, the fact is that it's competing against other stuff that can do the same thing and some of those options are free. It just seem a little excessive for Adobe to charge $999. Why not $500? Or even $600. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 got google talk? Chat me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com Use CF and SQL? Try qBrowser - http://www.ryanguill.com/docs/ www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233935 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I've had the same questions running through my mind. I used Ajax to build cfQuickDocs, and I loved it. One thing I do think that will be nice with Flex is cross platform compatibility. You build one app, and every client that has the flash player will run it. The one thing I'm not sure about is flash player versions. I think Linux people are still stuck with Flash Player 7, so if Flex requires the latest versions then some folks will be out. Flex 2 applications will require the latest version of Flash (8.5), which is in beta right now along with Flex 2 itself. So, yes, some folks will be out. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233936 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
The one thing I'm not sure about is flash player versions. Flex 2 runs on Flash 8.5. Completely rebuilt VM and MUCH FASTER! My current cfform stuff uses flash 8 (and flex 1 in the back-end) and sometimes takes up to TEN SECONDS to initialize on the screen. The examples Ben F was showing us, were coming up instantly and he said that speed would not slow even as your app grew. Truthfully, that was one of the most exciting things for me. I couldn't sell my powers that be on cf flash forms even because they were so dang slow to load in the past. ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233937 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
By the way... For anyone that's interested, here's a recorded Breeze presentation made by Jesse Warden for the Nashville CFUG. http://mmusergroup.breezecentral.com/p86821128/ !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Brad Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:55 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta The one thing I'm not sure about is flash player versions. Flex 2 runs on Flash 8.5. Completely rebuilt VM and MUCH FASTER! My current cfform stuff uses flash 8 (and flex 1 in the back-end) and sometimes takes up to TEN SECONDS to initialize on the screen. The examples Ben F was showing us, were coming up instantly and he said that speed would not slow even as your app grew. Truthfully, that was one of the most exciting things for me. I couldn't sell my powers that be on cf flash forms even because they were so dang slow to load in the past. ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233939 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Are you seeing a pattern here? I personally LOVE Coldfusion and I'm not complaining about it at all. But I do think that it should be free, not because I don't see a value in it, but because I want CF to proliferate. It's such a great language that if it were free LOADS of people would be using it. Because WHY NOT? It's powerful, easy to use and fun. Andy, A company's primary purpose for its existence is to make money. If CF were made available for free, who is going to pay for the developers' time and product support? ASP is not really free if you think about it. Microsoft had already factored in the costs of ASP into the price of every copy of Windows OS sold. -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:36 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Actually, yes, I do think that $1200 for the server is excessive. Seeing as how CF is the ONLY language that makes you pay for the engine. PHP = free ASP = free (with the windows OS) Java = free ( I beleive ) Perl = free Python = free Ruby = free Are you seeing a pattern here? I personally LOVE Coldfusion and I'm not complaining about it at all. But I do think that it should be free, not because I don't see a value in it, but because I want CF to proliferate. It's such a great language that if it were free LOADS of people would be using it. Because WHY NOT? It's powerful, easy to use and fun. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Do you use coldfusion? You know it competes against other products that can do the same thing, and some of those options are free right? PHP, ASP, RoR, etc? Did you pay for the coldfusion server? or do you use a hosting plan that you pay for that costs more than some of the other options? Do you think that 12xx for coldfusion is excessive? Of course they could release coldfusion for less money, but it costs money to develop the software, to maintain it, to train on it, etc. They think 12xx for the server is a pretty good price and so do plenty of corporations / developers. The point is, that while you can get other software that may be cheaper or even free, its worth paying for because you are getting value for your money. While you may pay 1000 for flexbuilder, while you could get some other product for free, flexbuilder is going to allow you to do more faster, increasing your return on investment. Also, if you dont like eclipse, or flexbuilder, use whatever xml / actionscript editor you want. You can get the compiler and flex framework for free... Just realize that you aren't going to have the IDE thats going to make everything easier for you. But I dont see 1000 per developer as excessive at all for the power that you get out of flexbuilder. Truth is, i dont see why anyone is trying to convince you... If you dont use it, it just means less competition later... ;) On 3/2/06, Andy Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what about those of us who just don't like Eclipse? I've tried it several times and each time I return to my copy of Editplus wondering what all of you are raving about. I'm now knocking it, or you Dave, but it I don't care WHAT it can do, the fact is that it's competing against other stuff that can do the same thing and some of those options are free. It just seem a little excessive for Adobe to charge $999. Why not $500? Or even $600. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 got google talk? Chat me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com Use CF and SQL? Try qBrowser - http://www.ryanguill.com/docs/ www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233942 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Andy, A company's primary purpose for its existence is to make money. If CF were made available for free, who is going to pay for the developers' time and product support? ASP is not really free if you think about it. Microsoft had already factored in the costs of ASP into the price of every copy of Windows OS sold. -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:36 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Actually, yes, I do think that $1200 for the server is excessive. Seeing as how CF is the ONLY language that makes you pay for the engine. PHP = free ASP = free (with the windows OS) Java = free ( I beleive ) Perl = free Python = free Ruby = free Are you seeing a pattern here? I personally LOVE Coldfusion and I'm not complaining about it at all. But I do think that it should be free, not because I don't see a value in it, but because I want CF to proliferate. It's such a great language that if it were free LOADS of people would be using it. Because WHY NOT? It's powerful, easy to use and fun. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233943 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Flex 2 applications will require the latest version of Flash (8.5), which is in beta right now along with Flex 2 itself. So, yes, some folks will be out. Hmm, that's a bummer. I'd not release any major apps from Flex 2 until 8.5 has a wide install base. However, the upgrade to new versions /is/ pretty painless. I was very surprised the other day when I hit a site in my new install of Ubuntu, Flash was required and Firefox did the install painlessly, then sent me back to the original page without restarting the browser! Very slick! --- This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A1. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233944 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Hmm, that's a bummer. I'd not release any major apps from Flex 2 until 8.5 has a wide install base. However, the upgrade to new versions /is/ pretty painless. I was very surprised the other day when I hit a site in my new install of Ubuntu, Flash was required and Firefox did the install painlessly, then sent me back to the original page without restarting the browser! Very slick! I think that the 8.5 install base will grow very quickly. Current versions of Flash, as you've noticed, can upgrade themselves pretty easily. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233945 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I think that the 8.5 install base will grow very quickly. Current versions of Flash, as you've noticed, can upgrade themselves pretty easily. You now..I don't think I've ever seen an automatic Flash Player update (kicked off from a Flash based site) work. How about the rest of ya? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233947 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Once... but it has to be deployed and implemented *perfectly*. In a way it's like seeing an albino family eating at Burger King... it happens, but it's rare. !k -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 2, 2006 12:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta I think that the 8.5 install base will grow very quickly. Current versions of Flash, as you've noticed, can upgrade themselves pretty easily. You now..I don't think I've ever seen an automatic Flash Player update (kicked off from a Flash based site) work. How about the rest of ya? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233949 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
You now..I don't think I've ever seen an automatic Flash Player update (kicked off from a Flash based site) work. How about the rest of ya? Yes, I have. I have never seen a Flash player update not work. I have once experience of a system that, no matter how many times I try, is not able to install Flash. But for systems that have flash, updating has never been a problem. -- Ian Skinner Web Programmer BloodSource www.BloodSource.org Sacramento, CA - | 1 | | - Binary Soduko | | | - C code. C code run. Run code run. Please! - Cynthia Dunning Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete any copies of this message. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233950 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I think we need to remember that there has been no set pricing on the tool yet. Ben noted that it could be under $1000 and that could mean anything from $1 - $999 even though I think it will be on the higher end. The fact of the matter is that if you decide that you like what the tool does and how it works you will fork over the money. I personally think it is worth the investment. Adobe will, I assume, allow you to download a trial when the final version is shipped so you can test it out. From Ben's presentation in NYC, Adobe was working on some RDS functionality as well that may be contributed to Eclipse or just be part of the Flex Builder tool, that alone in my opinion is worth it's weight in gold. Not everyone is going to like the product, some people hate Dreamweaver while other swear by it, you can't please everyone but there is nothing else at present that can accomplish what this tool will deliver when released. That is the bottom line and Adobe will price it accordingly for their target audience. If you don't like the product and want to either build one or hand code everything you can do so also since the XML style markup is quite easy to use but again, it's up to you if you prefer to spend 100 hrs hand coding it versus using the visual tool. I really think that all the AJAX talk is going to quiet down a bit when Flex is released. Just my 2 cents. On 3/2/06, Andy Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what about those of us who just don't like Eclipse? I've tried it several times and each time I return to my copy of Editplus wondering what all of you are raving about. I'm now knocking it, or you Dave, but it I don't care WHAT it can do, the fact is that it's competing against other stuff that can do the same thing and some of those options are free. It just seem a little excessive for Adobe to charge $999. Why not $500? Or even $600. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta I do still think it's a bit of a cheek to charge the equivalent of a full app suite (or a new PC for that matter) for a plugin - no matter how wonderful it is. As to whether it would save me time/money thats a moot point. Flex 2 is not the only option out there, and wearing either of my hats (as an independent developer or as a member of a large dev team working for a not for profit) $1000 is a lot to spend per seat - especially as we would probably need the server as well. I don't really understand why it matters whether it's a plugin or a full app suite. What matters to me is what it allows you to do. I'd much rather pay $1000 for FlexBuilder as a plugin to Eclipse, which is somewhat of a known quantity, than have Adobe spend time and developer resources to build an entire IDE from scratch. They'd have to charge more for it just to cover their costs, and it probably wouldn't be nearly as good. And again, the only thing that should matter is whether it helps you deliver better applications faster, at least enough to offset the per-seat cost! And yes, Flex 2 is not the only option out there. But it's fundamentally different from the other options that are available. Based on what I've seen so far, I think it's quite a bit better than the other options. In my opinion, AJAX is hardly comparable to Flex 2 - and I've been working with AJAX (and AJAXish predecessor) applications for a long, long time. You don't need to listen to me, though. Download the open beta and see for yourself! I am interested in Flex2, I am also interested in Ajax and several other options - money will be a big part of any decisions made. To set up 2 servers and 12 developers to use Flex might be a very significant outlay. According to my understanding, you don't necessarily have to purchase any server component at all. You can use Flex to talk to CF applications, web services, etc. without any server component. The optional server component is very impressive, though - it provides some very useful pieces of functionality, like the ability to tie into JMS very easily. As for your not-for-profit development team, Adobe may offer alternative pricing for different sorts of organizations, so you may be able to get it cheaper than I can. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233951 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
You now..I don't think I've ever seen an automatic Flash Player update (kicked off from a Flash based site) work. How about the rest of ya? Well, it's not looking too good. I have flash player 8 and I just went to labs.adobe.com and clicked on all their flex 2.0 examples (requires Flash 8.5) and every one of them gave me a blank screen, or an infinite loading page. I've gotta say, they need to work on their detection script. I even waited for about five minutes to see if it was just loading in the background with out telling me, but nothing ever happened. ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233952 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
yeah, I love when people go on about ASP being free. It's not free, it's just that you've already paid for it. As a shareholder, I don't ever want to see CF made free. Nick Han wrote: Are you seeing a pattern here? I personally LOVE Coldfusion and I'm not complaining about it at all. But I do think that it should be free, not because I don't see a value in it, but because I want CF to proliferate. It's such a great language that if it were free LOADS of people would be using it. Because WHY NOT? It's powerful, easy to use and fun. Andy, A company's primary purpose for its existence is to make money. If CF were made available for free, who is going to pay for the developers' time and product support? ASP is not really free if you think about it. Microsoft had already factored in the costs of ASP into the price of every copy of Windows OS sold. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233953 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Can't say for certain that I've seen it NOT work. --Ferg Bryan Stevenson wrote: I think that the 8.5 install base will grow very quickly. Current versions of Flash, as you've noticed, can upgrade themselves pretty easily. You now..I don't think I've ever seen an automatic Flash Player update (kicked off from a Flash based site) work. How about the rest of ya? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233954 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Once... but it has to be deployed and implemented *perfectly*. In a way it's like seeing an albino family eating at Burger King... it happens, but it's rare. !k hehe...and my most recent failure was on www.tv.com you'd think they'd get it right with the traffic they must have ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233955 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I haven't tried it, but my guess is the reason it doesn't work is because CF 8.5 isn't released yet, and therefore not part of the auto update. -Original Message- From: Brad Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 1:59 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta You now..I don't think I've ever seen an automatic Flash Player update (kicked off from a Flash based site) work. How about the rest of ya? Well, it's not looking too good. I have flash player 8 and I just went to labs.adobe.com and clicked on all their flex 2.0 examples (requires Flash 8.5) and every one of them gave me a blank screen, or an infinite loading page. I've gotta say, they need to work on their detection script. I even waited for about five minutes to see if it was just loading in the background with out telling me, but nothing ever happened. ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233956 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
You now..I don't think I've ever seen an automatic Flash Player update (kicked off from a Flash based site) work. How about the rest of ya? Yeah, I have, actually. Well, it's not looking too good. I have flash player 8 and I just went to labs.adobe.com and clicked on all their flex 2.0 examples (requires Flash 8.5) and every one of them gave me a blank screen, or an infinite loading page. I've gotta say, they need to work on their detection script. I even waited for about five minutes to see if it was just loading in the background with out telling me, but nothing ever happened. The 8.5 version is a beta. It will not be automatically installed by any of the examples, for obvious reasons. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233957 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I thought there was no automatic update to the beta player. On 3/2/06, Brad Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You now..I don't think I've ever seen an automatic Flash Player update (kicked off from a Flash based site) work. How about the rest of ya? Well, it's not looking too good. I have flash player 8 and I just went to labs.adobe.com and clicked on all their flex 2.0 examples (requires Flash 8.5) and every one of them gave me a blank screen, or an infinite loading page. I've gotta say, they need to work on their detection script. I even waited for about five minutes to see if it was just loading in the background with out telling me, but nothing ever happened. ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233958 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Tech support. Plenty of companies make their money supporting free products. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Nick Han [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 12:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Are you seeing a pattern here? I personally LOVE Coldfusion and I'm not complaining about it at all. But I do think that it should be free, not because I don't see a value in it, but because I want CF to proliferate. It's such a great language that if it were free LOADS of people would be using it. Because WHY NOT? It's powerful, easy to use and fun. Andy, A company's primary purpose for its existence is to make money. If CF were made available for free, who is going to pay for the developers' time and product support? ASP is not really free if you think about it. Microsoft had already factored in the costs of ASP into the price of every copy of Windows OS sold. -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:36 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Actually, yes, I do think that $1200 for the server is excessive. Seeing as how CF is the ONLY language that makes you pay for the engine. PHP = free ASP = free (with the windows OS) Java = free ( I beleive ) Perl = free Python = free Ruby = free Are you seeing a pattern here? I personally LOVE Coldfusion and I'm not complaining about it at all. But I do think that it should be free, not because I don't see a value in it, but because I want CF to proliferate. It's such a great language that if it were free LOADS of people would be using it. Because WHY NOT? It's powerful, easy to use and fun. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Do you use coldfusion? You know it competes against other products that can do the same thing, and some of those options are free right? PHP, ASP, RoR, etc? Did you pay for the coldfusion server? or do you use a hosting plan that you pay for that costs more than some of the other options? Do you think that 12xx for coldfusion is excessive? Of course they could release coldfusion for less money, but it costs money to develop the software, to maintain it, to train on it, etc. They think 12xx for the server is a pretty good price and so do plenty of corporations / developers. The point is, that while you can get other software that may be cheaper or even free, its worth paying for because you are getting value for your money. While you may pay 1000 for flexbuilder, while you could get some other product for free, flexbuilder is going to allow you to do more faster, increasing your return on investment. Also, if you dont like eclipse, or flexbuilder, use whatever xml / actionscript editor you want. You can get the compiler and flex framework for free... Just realize that you aren't going to have the IDE thats going to make everything easier for you. But I dont see 1000 per developer as excessive at all for the power that you get out of flexbuilder. Truth is, i dont see why anyone is trying to convince you... If you dont use it, it just means less competition later... ;) On 3/2/06, Andy Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what about those of us who just don't like Eclipse? I've tried it several times and each time I return to my copy of Editplus wondering what all of you are raving about. I'm now knocking it, or you Dave, but it I don't care WHAT it can do, the fact is that it's competing against other stuff that can do the same thing and some of those options are free. It just seem a little excessive for Adobe to charge $999. Why not $500? Or even $600. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 got google talk? Chat me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com Use CF and SQL? Try qBrowser - http://www.ryanguill.com/docs/ www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233959 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I haven't tried it, but my guess is the reason it doesn't work is because CF 8.5 isn't released yet, and therefore not part of the auto update. What would CF have to do with a Flash Player update??? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233960 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Same here. I get a blank blue screen on any of the examples found here: http://labs.macromedia.com/showcase/ !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Brad Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 12:59 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta You now..I don't think I've ever seen an automatic Flash Player update (kicked off from a Flash based site) work. How about the rest of ya? Well, it's not looking too good. I have flash player 8 and I just went to labs.adobe.com and clicked on all their flex 2.0 examples (requires Flash 8.5) and every one of them gave me a blank screen, or an infinite loading page. I've gotta say, they need to work on their detection script. I even waited for about five minutes to see if it was just loading in the background with out telling me, but nothing ever happened. ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233961 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
From Ben's presentation in NYC, Adobe was working on some RDS functionality as well that may be contributed to Eclipse or just be part of the Flex Builder tool, that alone in my opinion is worth it's weight in gold. I'm pretty sure that the RDS functionality for Eclipse is separate from FlexBuilder. I suspect that it'll be released for free. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233962 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
For those just joining us, we're talking about Flex2, which requires Flash 8.5. russ -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 2:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta I haven't tried it, but my guess is the reason it doesn't work is because CF 8.5 isn't released yet, and therefore not part of the auto update. What would CF have to do with a Flash Player update??? Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233965 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Regarding the anticipated pricing of FlexBuilder: What is it with all you people who think everything should be free? Are cars and houses free? Are bread and milk free? Do you work for free? If you think everything should be free, then you need to stop billing your clients for work, or stop accepting paychecks from your employer. Or maybe it's that YOU get to charge money for YOUR services, but you shouldn't have to pay anyone else for their services... is that it? Maybe some day, in some bright and shining utopian wonderland, everything will be free. In the meantime, do those of you who constantly bitch about everything costing money know ANYTHING about BUSINESS at all? I cannot believe that someone on this list actually said they think CF should be free! As far as FlexBuilder goes, I think $2000 would still be a bargain. As someone once said, If you can't run with the big dogs, then stay on the porch! Or, if you can't afford to buy good tools, there are always the free ones. But quit complaining that good tools cost money -- they always have and they always will. I just needed to vent. The best to you all. Tom Harris ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233966 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
For those just joining us, we're talking about Flex2, which requires Flash 8.5. russ Thanks Russ...gee I hadn't noticed ;-) That still does not explain why you'd need CF to update a Flash Player!! for your refernce: I haven't tried it, but my guess is the reason it doesn't work is because CF 8.5 isn't released yet, and therefore not part of the auto update. Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233968 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
If Adobe could get their return of investment solely through tech support revenue stream, they would have gone that route. The business reality is they want to get their return of investment and return on investment for their shareholders in the relative shortest timeframe. -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:09 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Tech support. Plenty of companies make their money supporting free products. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Nick Han [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 12:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Are you seeing a pattern here? I personally LOVE Coldfusion and I'm not complaining about it at all. But I do think that it should be free, not because I don't see a value in it, but because I want CF to proliferate. It's such a great language that if it were free LOADS of people would be using it. Because WHY NOT? It's powerful, easy to use and fun. Andy, A company's primary purpose for its existence is to make money. If CF were made available for free, who is going to pay for the developers' time and product support? ASP is not really free if you think about it. Microsoft had already factored in the costs of ASP into the price of every copy of Windows OS sold. -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:36 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Actually, yes, I do think that $1200 for the server is excessive. Seeing as how CF is the ONLY language that makes you pay for the engine. PHP = free ASP = free (with the windows OS) Java = free ( I beleive ) Perl = free Python = free Ruby = free Are you seeing a pattern here? I personally LOVE Coldfusion and I'm not complaining about it at all. But I do think that it should be free, not because I don't see a value in it, but because I want CF to proliferate. It's such a great language that if it were free LOADS of people would be using it. Because WHY NOT? It's powerful, easy to use and fun. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Do you use coldfusion? You know it competes against other products that can do the same thing, and some of those options are free right? PHP, ASP, RoR, etc? Did you pay for the coldfusion server? or do you use a hosting plan that you pay for that costs more than some of the other options? Do you think that 12xx for coldfusion is excessive? Of course they could release coldfusion for less money, but it costs money to develop the software, to maintain it, to train on it, etc. They think 12xx for the server is a pretty good price and so do plenty of corporations / developers. The point is, that while you can get other software that may be cheaper or even free, its worth paying for because you are getting value for your money. While you may pay 1000 for flexbuilder, while you could get some other product for free, flexbuilder is going to allow you to do more faster, increasing your return on investment. Also, if you dont like eclipse, or flexbuilder, use whatever xml / actionscript editor you want. You can get the compiler and flex framework for free... Just realize that you aren't going to have the IDE thats going to make everything easier for you. But I dont see 1000 per developer as excessive at all for the power that you get out of flexbuilder. Truth is, i dont see why anyone is trying to convince you... If you dont use it, it just means less competition later... ;) On 3/2/06, Andy Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what about those of us who just don't like Eclipse? I've tried it several times and each time I return to my copy of Editplus wondering what all of you are raving about. I'm now knocking it, or you Dave, but it I don't care WHAT it can do, the fact is that it's competing against other stuff that can do the same thing and some of those options are free. It just seem a little excessive for Adobe to charge $999. Why not $500? Or even $600. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 got google talk? Chat me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com Use CF and SQL? Try qBrowser - http://www.ryanguill.com/docs/ www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
That still does not explain why you'd need CF to update a Flash Player!! for your refernce: I haven't tried it, but my guess is the reason it doesn't work is because CF 8.5 isn't released yet, and therefore not part of the auto update. Cheers I'm going to speculate typo and he meant Flash, not CF. CF is a ways away from an 8.5 version since it is currently only on 7.01. -- Ian Skinner Web Programmer BloodSource www.BloodSource.org Sacramento, CA - | 1 | | - Binary Soduko | | | - C code. C code run. Run code run. Please! - Cynthia Dunning Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete any copies of this message. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233970 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I haven't tried it, but my guess is the reason it doesn't work is because CF 8.5 isn't released yet, and therefore not part of the auto update. I'm assuming that was a typo and they meant Flash 8.5 hasn't been released yet. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233971 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Lets not forget that Flex is currently a $12,000 product that requires it's own server to run and can't even be run on shared servers. So they are dropping the price over 90% and making it serverless and anywhere deployable, i think thats a pretty good deal! Especially with the kinda $$ you can quickly make off of it. ~Dave the disruptor~ ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233973 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
+1 for Tom Harris. Seems like software is the only industry where people expect free products. Since CF is presumably making us all money in one way or another it's only fair that Adobe should also make money on the product. Flex has huge potential to create a better end user experience, thus ultimately making us developers more money and so easily justifies the price tag. I was amazed when I got into CF and found out the developer edition is free. Since I use shared hosting, CF is essentially free for me. I would gladly pay some kind of a subscription or up front fee to use developer edition if it was imposed and it seemed reasonable. To me the reason CF has been slow to catch on is not because it isn't free, but because of crusty C++ and Windows guys who think PHP or ASP is the greatest thing since sliced bread (my boss is one of those guys). Also some programmers (no one on this list obviously) tend to be stubborn and unwilling to learn new technologies. -- Josh - Original Message - From: Tom Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Regarding the anticipated pricing of FlexBuilder: What is it with all you people who think everything should be free? Are cars and houses free? Are bread and milk free? Do you work for free? If you think everything should be free, then you need to stop billing your clients for work, or stop accepting paychecks from your employer. Or maybe it's that YOU get to charge money for YOUR services, but you shouldn't have to pay anyone else for their services... is that it? Maybe some day, in some bright and shining utopian wonderland, everything will be free. In the meantime, do those of you who constantly bitch about everything costing money know ANYTHING about BUSINESS at all? I cannot believe that someone on this list actually said they think CF should be free! As far as FlexBuilder goes, I think $2000 would still be a bargain. As someone once said, If you can't run with the big dogs, then stay on the porch! Or, if you can't afford to buy good tools, there are always the free ones. But quit complaining that good tools cost money -- they always have and they always will. I just needed to vent. The best to you all. Tom Harris ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233974 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Lets not forget that Flex is currently a $12,000 product that requires it's own server to run and can't even be run on shared servers. So they are dropping the price over 90% and making it serverless and anywhere deployable, i think thats a pretty good deal! Especially with the kinda $$ you can quickly make off of it. ~Dave the disruptor~ Just a point of consideration, the current Flex is the IDE and the FES (Flex Enterprise Server). The price of the Flex2 FES has not been announced. Ben Forta did say that he expects the price barrier for FES would be greatly reduced for Flex2, but could not be more specific then that. He also gave an interesting explanation on the price point for the current Flex version. But the point is that the IDE price of less then $1000 does not include the FES that will be some kind of extra cost, IF YOU NEED/WANT it. The neat thing is that you should only need or want the FES if you are building applications that will push data from a server to the clients. To pull data in Flex2 does not require FES and can be done for free, as long as you don't mind coding in an alternate IDE. -- Ian Skinner Web Programmer BloodSource www.BloodSource.org Sacramento, CA - | 1 | | - Binary Soduko | | | - C code. C code run. Run code run. Please! - Cynthia Dunning Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete any copies of this message. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233975 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
On 3/2/06, dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lets not forget that Flex is currently a $12,000 product that requires it's own server to run and can't even be run on shared servers. So they are dropping the price over 90% and making it serverless and anywhere deployable, i think thats a pretty good deal! Especially with the kinda $$ you can quickly make off of it. Actually, Flex is now $29,000 USD. They dropped the $12K offering a long time ago in favor of a package that includes Flex plus support and maintenance. At least, that's what our sales rep told us. Regards, Dave. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233976 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Also some programmers (no one on this list obviously) tend to be stubborn and unwilling to learn new technologies. Hey wait a second, I resemble that remark!!! --Ferg Josh Nathanson wrote: +1 for Tom Harris. Seems like software is the only industry where people expect free products. Since CF is presumably making us all money in one way or another it's only fair that Adobe should also make money on the product. Flex has huge potential to create a better end user experience, thus ultimately making us developers more money and so easily justifies the price tag. I was amazed when I got into CF and found out the developer edition is free. Since I use shared hosting, CF is essentially free for me. I would gladly pay some kind of a subscription or up front fee to use developer edition if it was imposed and it seemed reasonable. To me the reason CF has been slow to catch on is not because it isn't free, but because of crusty C++ and Windows guys who think PHP or ASP is the greatest thing since sliced bread (my boss is one of those guys). Also some programmers (no one on this list obviously) tend to be stubborn and unwilling to learn new technologies. -- Josh - Original Message - From: Tom Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Regarding the anticipated pricing of FlexBuilder: What is it with all you people who think everything should be free? Are cars and houses free? Are bread and milk free? Do you work for free? If you think everything should be free, then you need to stop billing your clients for work, or stop accepting paychecks from your employer. Or maybe it's that YOU get to charge money for YOUR services, but you shouldn't have to pay anyone else for their services... is that it? Maybe some day, in some bright and shining utopian wonderland, everything will be free. In the meantime, do those of you who constantly bitch about everything costing money know ANYTHING about BUSINESS at all? I cannot believe that someone on this list actually said they think CF should be free! As far as FlexBuilder goes, I think $2000 would still be a bargain. As someone once said, If you can't run with the big dogs, then stay on the porch! Or, if you can't afford to buy good tools, there are always the free ones. But quit complaining that good tools cost money -- they always have and they always will. I just needed to vent. The best to you all. Tom Harris ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233977 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I'm sorry... typo... meant to say Flash 8.5... -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 2:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta For those just joining us, we're talking about Flex2, which requires Flash 8.5. russ Thanks Russ...gee I hadn't noticed ;-) That still does not explain why you'd need CF to update a Flash Player!! for your refernce: I haven't tried it, but my guess is the reason it doesn't work is because CF 8.5 isn't released yet, and therefore not part of the auto update. Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233979 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
This is the point that's got me laughing now. I was leading the bitch-fest about Flex costing so freakin' much for the server... Now I'm incredibly exited that the cost is being so drastically reduced. I'm finally going to get to do some cool Flex work, Yppp! And now I see people complaining about that too! I'm certain you'd waste no time finding something else to complain about if they made the IDE free. I'm convinced that some of you chuckleheads would complain about a penny pitcher of beer, just because it wasn't free! --Ferg Ian Skinner wrote: Lets not forget that Flex is currently a $12,000 product that requires it's own server to run and can't even be run on shared servers. So they are dropping the price over 90% and making it serverless and anywhere deployable, i think thats a pretty good deal! Especially with the kinda $$ you can quickly make off of it. ~Dave the disruptor~ Just a point of consideration, the current Flex is the IDE and the FES (Flex Enterprise Server). The price of the Flex2 FES has not been announced. Ben Forta did say that he expects the price barrier for FES would be greatly reduced for Flex2, but could not be more specific then that. He also gave an interesting explanation on the price point for the current Flex version. But the point is that the IDE price of less then $1000 does not include the FES that will be some kind of extra cost, IF YOU NEED/WANT it. The neat thing is that you should only need or want the FES if you are building applications that will push data from a server to the clients. To pull data in Flex2 does not require FES and can be done for free, as long as you don't mind coding in an alternate IDE. -- Ian Skinner Web Programmer BloodSource www.BloodSource.org Sacramento, CA - | 1 | | - Binary Soduko | | | - C code. C code run. Run code run. Please! - Cynthia Dunning Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete any copies of this message. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233980 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Hmmm... So CFEclipse must not be a good tool then. Open Office must not be good. Winamp, the Flash player, Linux. All of those must be total trash because they're free. The point I'm wanted to make is that I love ColdFusion and want it to succeed. Some clients/companies simply can't get past the fact that CF costs $1200 minimum to get into ColdFusion when PHP is free. You and I both know the pros and cons to free software like PHP, but the client doesn't see past the dollars signs. And by the way...I said ColdFusion should be free...my names Andy Matthews. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Tom Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 1:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Regarding the anticipated pricing of FlexBuilder: What is it with all you people who think everything should be free? Are cars and houses free? Are bread and milk free? Do you work for free? If you think everything should be free, then you need to stop billing your clients for work, or stop accepting paychecks from your employer. Or maybe it's that YOU get to charge money for YOUR services, but you shouldn't have to pay anyone else for their services... is that it? Maybe some day, in some bright and shining utopian wonderland, everything will be free. In the meantime, do those of you who constantly bitch about everything costing money know ANYTHING about BUSINESS at all? I cannot believe that someone on this list actually said they think CF should be free! As far as FlexBuilder goes, I think $2000 would still be a bargain. As someone once said, If you can't run with the big dogs, then stay on the porch! Or, if you can't afford to buy good tools, there are always the free ones. But quit complaining that good tools cost money -- they always have and they always will. I just needed to vent. The best to you all. Tom Harris ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233982 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Concerning CF server cost... I wonder, however, since many cutting edge developers tend to be college students who have no money and are out to see what they can do, how CF would compete if it were free or at least less expensive... I don't think the kids would purposefully use a less-intuitive language just for the fun of it. Thost kids who can afford PHP and ASP in college and grow used to it become the developers who sway organizations to use those languages instead of CF when it comes time for them to develop for profit and for a company. Perhaps Adobe should consider a version which lacks advanced features to offer for free...that would give students something to play with, learn from, and grow comfortable with. And give small business (especially single developers) a start with the server, begin to make money, then invest in more advanced versions. I see software vendors doing this all the time. And I don't think charging for CF server is unreasonable. I think it's perfectly normal for it to cost money. I make money from it... (I do think the upgrade prices are too high...50%...to much... way abovethe norm for the range of products I use, which tend to be non-enterprise and *part* of the reason I'm still using 4.5.2, and happily so...I know it, understand it, and it does all I need to do at this point.) Rick -Original Message- From: Josh Nathanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta +1 for Tom Harris. Seems like software is the only industry where people expect free products. Since CF is presumably making us all money in one way or another it's only fair that Adobe should also make money on the product. Flex has huge potential to create a better end user experience, thus ultimately making us developers more money and so easily justifies the price tag. I was amazed when I got into CF and found out the developer edition is free. Since I use shared hosting, CF is essentially free for me. I would gladly pay some kind of a subscription or up front fee to use developer edition if it was imposed and it seemed reasonable. To me the reason CF has been slow to catch on is not because it isn't free, but because of crusty C++ and Windows guys who think PHP or ASP is the greatest thing since sliced bread (my boss is one of those guys). Also some programmers (no one on this list obviously) tend to be stubborn and unwilling to learn new technologies. -- Josh - Original Message - From: Tom Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Regarding the anticipated pricing of FlexBuilder: What is it with all you people who think everything should be free? Are cars and houses free? Are bread and milk free? Do you work for free? If you think everything should be free, then you need to stop billing your clients for work, or stop accepting paychecks from your employer. Or maybe it's that YOU get to charge money for YOUR services, but you shouldn't have to pay anyone else for their services... is that it? Maybe some day, in some bright and shining utopian wonderland, everything will be free. In the meantime, do those of you who constantly bitch about everything costing money know ANYTHING about BUSINESS at all? I cannot believe that someone on this list actually said they think CF should be free! As far as FlexBuilder goes, I think $2000 would still be a bargain. As someone once said, If you can't run with the big dogs, then stay on the porch! Or, if you can't afford to buy good tools, there are always the free ones. But quit complaining that good tools cost money -- they always have and they always will. I just needed to vent. The best to you all. Tom Harris ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233983 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Perhaps Adobe should consider a version which lacks advanced features to offer for free...that would give students something to play with, learn from, and grow comfortable with. And give small business (especially single developers) a start with the server, begin to make money, then invest in more advanced versions. I see software vendors doing this all the time. Would this be something like Adobe's nee Macromedia's Free Developer edition? This is exactly how I got started with CF back in 1996/97 during the 4.5 days. And is the version I still do all my development in. And the developer version doesn't even lack advanced features, just lacks the ability to be run on a public server. But one can get CF hosting accounts for a very reasonable rate these days, albeit not free. -- Ian Skinner Web Programmer BloodSource www.BloodSource.org Sacramento, CA - | 1 | | - Binary Soduko | | | - C code. C code run. Run code run. Please! - Cynthia Dunning Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete any copies of this message. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233984 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I wonder, however, since many cutting edge developers tend to be college students who have no money and are out to see what they can do, how CF would compete if it were free or at least less expensive... Rick...it is free to use to play with..developer version...so I don't see your point Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233986 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
See my reply to Ian..not even a student wants to develop something no one can see or use... -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta I wonder, however, since many cutting edge developers tend to be college students who have no money and are out to see what they can do, how CF would compete if it were free or at least less expensive... Rick...it is free to use to play with..developer version...so I don't see your point Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233988 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
But one can get CF hosting accounts for a very reasonable rate these days, albeit not free. Good point...perhaps Adobe should consider setting up some free hosting accounts with basic CF features, to allow students to use CF *publicly*...I think a development version is a waste of hard drive space, except for those who are developing for production. No students wants to develop and then not be able to show off his work... The key is to get new developers in the door and I think the best breeding ground for developers is in the colleges. I remember being in college and there were times when it wouldn't have been possible to pay for hosting...especially an account that provides CF. And yes, I think there are free CF accounts (?), but how many college kids know about them? Adobe should start a massive outreach program to provide free accounts for verifiable students. Hosted at Adobe...free students for registered, verifiable students who want to see what they can do. They develop portfolios and free components for the CF community because they can afford to work for free and have time to kill. Give 'em the goodies at first and they'll pay for them later once they're hooked...how do you think crack sellers work? Rick -Original Message- From: Ian Skinner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Perhaps Adobe should consider a version which lacks advanced features to offer for free...that would give students something to play with, learn from, and grow comfortable with. And give small business (especially single developers) a start with the server, begin to make money, then invest in more advanced versions. I see software vendors doing this all the time. Would this be something like Adobe's nee Macromedia's Free Developer edition? This is exactly how I got started with CF back in 1996/97 during the 4.5 days. And is the version I still do all my development in. And the developer version doesn't even lack advanced features, just lacks the ability to be run on a public server. But one can get CF hosting accounts for a very reasonable rate these days, albeit not free. -- Ian Skinner Web Programmer BloodSource www.BloodSource.org Sacramento, CA - | 1 | | - Binary Soduko | | | - C code. C code run. Run code run. Please! - Cynthia Dunning Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete any copies of this message. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233987 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Thats interesting since over the past 6+ years I have worked with a lot of students who did CF work. On 3/2/06, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See my reply to Ian..not even a student wants to develop something no one can see or use... ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233990 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Free ColdFusion could work. It would have to work for Adobe too though. How about adding one more level... ColdFusion BasicFREE no cfmail, cfchart, cfr's, cfc's, cfforms, no mysql support (essentially the old free version of Blue dragon). License limited to one domain. ColdFusion Standard (renamed professional?) 1200 (although 900 looks better) ColdFusion Enterprise $5000 Adobe would benefit from increased market/developer share as more people became acquainted with the power and simplicity of ColdFusion, then the benefit of ColdFusion Professional for 1200 would be easy to grasp. And once a company needs enterprise level software, $5k is not much, especially if all your apps already run on coldfusion. Mark -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Hmmm... So CFEclipse must not be a good tool then. Open Office must not be good. Winamp, the Flash player, Linux. All of those must be total trash because they're free. The point I'm wanted to make is that I love ColdFusion and want it to succeed. Some clients/companies simply can't get past the fact that CF costs $1200 minimum to get into ColdFusion when PHP is free. You and I both know the pros and cons to free software like PHP, but the client doesn't see past the dollars signs. And by the way...I said ColdFusion should be free...my names Andy Matthews. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233991 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I wonder, however, since many cutting edge developers tend to be college students who have no money and are out to see what they can do, how CF would compete if it were free or at least less expensive... Rick...it is free to use to play with..developer version...so I don't see your point With the very small caveat that you have to pay for CF hosting somewhere, a few bucks a month. -- Josh - Original Message - From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233992 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I wonder, however, since many cutting edge developers tend to be college students who have no money and are out to see what they can do, how CF would compete if it were free or at least less expensive... Maybe Adobe can release a tool for creating a portable archive file (war/ear/jar) that you can just dump into a free J2EE server.similar to what they are doing with Flex. It is already possible with the enterprise version of CF. A free version of this tool may give some of those new developers incentive to develop in it since they will not need to pay for the server . -- Donnie Bachan Website: http://www.islandwizards.com Blog: http://angrytrini.blogspot.com Nitendo Vinces - By Striving You Shall Conquer == The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233993 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Mark... I think that could be a great idea. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Mark Fuqua [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 2:38 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Free ColdFusion could work. It would have to work for Adobe too though. How about adding one more level... ColdFusion BasicFREE no cfmail, cfchart, cfr's, cfc's, cfforms, no mysql support (essentially the old free version of Blue dragon). License limited to one domain. ColdFusion Standard (renamed professional?) 1200 (although 900 looks better) ColdFusion Enterprise $5000 Adobe would benefit from increased market/developer share as more people became acquainted with the power and simplicity of ColdFusion, then the benefit of ColdFusion Professional for 1200 would be easy to grasp. And once a company needs enterprise level software, $5k is not much, especially if all your apps already run on coldfusion. Mark -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Hmmm... So CFEclipse must not be a good tool then. Open Office must not be good. Winamp, the Flash player, Linux. All of those must be total trash because they're free. The point I'm wanted to make is that I love ColdFusion and want it to succeed. Some clients/companies simply can't get past the fact that CF costs $1200 minimum to get into ColdFusion when PHP is free. You and I both know the pros and cons to free software like PHP, but the client doesn't see past the dollars signs. And by the way...I said ColdFusion should be free...my names Andy Matthews. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233994 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
See my reply to Ian..not even a student wants to develop something no one can see or use... 2 IPsthey can show it to whomever they wish...reset IP as needed. Now if you mean make publicly accessible sitethey SHOULD have to pay for hosting...period. If not then chaos ensues when every student on the planet has a free hosting account ;-) I think you'll see it could get ugly and result in total crap that is suppoed to represent CF. Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233995 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Sounds like a winner! (But leave the CFMail...that's a great outreach tool that would be used to send email promoting Cold Fusion...anything that helps get into an inbox is invaluable, therefore CF takes on a huge value just with that feature...) No MySQL support? Don't know about that one...since MySQL is free and powerful (I use it) I wouldn't cut that one out...they might start using Access... ;o) Since you want to be able to introduce the newbies to all the powerful features of CF, would a full-featured free version work if it were limited to one domain? Would that hurt Adobe too much? Rick -Original Message- From: Mark Fuqua [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:38 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Free ColdFusion could work. It would have to work for Adobe too though. How about adding one more level... ColdFusion Basic FREE no cfmail, cfchart, cfr's, cfc's, cfforms, no mysql support (essentially the old free version of Blue dragon). License limited to one domain. ColdFusion Standard (renamed professional?) 1200 (although 900 looks better) ColdFusion Enterprise $5000 Adobe would benefit from increased market/developer share as more people became acquainted with the power and simplicity of ColdFusion, then the benefit of ColdFusion Professional for 1200 would be easy to grasp. And once a company needs enterprise level software, $5k is not much, especially if all your apps already run on coldfusion. Mark -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Hmmm... So CFEclipse must not be a good tool then. Open Office must not be good. Winamp, the Flash player, Linux. All of those must be total trash because they're free. The point I'm wanted to make is that I love ColdFusion and want it to succeed. Some clients/companies simply can't get past the fact that CF costs $1200 minimum to get into ColdFusion when PHP is free. You and I both know the pros and cons to free software like PHP, but the client doesn't see past the dollars signs. And by the way...I said ColdFusion should be free...my names Andy Matthews. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233998 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Did they work for you or were they making the choices about what langauge they would use? And...more importantly, were they footing any bills associated with their work? Rick -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:46 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Thats interesting since over the past 6+ years I have worked with a lot of students who did CF work. On 3/2/06, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See my reply to Ian..not even a student wants to develop something no one can see or use... ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233999 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
I said since day 1 when adobe was annouced taking over that they should have a free version, especially with their already deep roots in the schools. But you can't take out some of the stuff like cfmail, hell just give schools a license. The funny thing is cfmail could be one of the biggest reasons to actually give it to them. You see all these designers and such make these flash apps and the only processing they use is for sending mail, like a contact form and so of course they are taught php to do it. Then when they get in the real world and have to learn more programming they of course go with php. Now if the school had cfm they of course could learn that mail tag a lot quicker and then they'd probably continue on with cfm because that's human nature, it's not rocket science either. One of the biggest pitfalls for cfm is that these students are taught in school that coldfusion is very expensive and it will cost them $1200 just to try it, so of course they stay well clear of it. These are ppl that use shared hosting and as we all know means they don't actually have to pay anything for for cfm but instead they go to php. That and since php has so many free apps but thats our fault. ~Dave the disruptor~ From: Mark Fuqua [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 4:03 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Free ColdFusion could work. It would have to work for Adobe too though. How about adding one more level... ColdFusion Basic FREE no cfmail, cfchart, cfr's, cfc's, cfforms, no mysql support (essentially the old free version of Blue dragon). License limited to one domain. ColdFusion Standard (renamed professional?) 1200 (although 900 looks better) ColdFusion Enterprise $5000 Adobe would benefit from increased market/developer share as more people became acquainted with the power and simplicity of ColdFusion, then the benefit of ColdFusion Professional for 1200 would be easy to grasp. And once a company needs enterprise level software, $5k is not much, especially if all your apps already run on coldfusion. Mark ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:234000 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Not familiar with that but it sounds interesting. Anything to get an offering of CF to let the kids play for free... -Original Message- From: Donnie Bachan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:59 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta I wonder, however, since many cutting edge developers tend to be college students who have no money and are out to see what they can do, how CF would compete if it were free or at least less expensive... Maybe Adobe can release a tool for creating a portable archive file (war/ear/jar) that you can just dump into a free J2EE server.similar to what they are doing with Flex. It is already possible with the enterprise version of CF. A free version of this tool may give some of those new developers incentive to develop in it since they will not need to pay for the server . ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:234002 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
But there's the rub...PHP and ASP allow the *crap* to be developed along with the good stuff. People who need to spend money on the Professional or Enterprise versions should be smart enough to fully investigate the capabilities of the product. The The more you try to protect the product and stifle creativity for fear of *abuse* the less used it will be. Why do you think we have high school orchestras? It's certainly not for the performance quality... Rick -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 4:14 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta See my reply to Ian..not even a student wants to develop something no one can see or use... 2 IPsthey can show it to whomever they wish...reset IP as needed. Now if you mean make publicly accessible sitethey SHOULD have to pay for hosting...period. If not then chaos ensues when every student on the planet has a free hosting account ;-) I think you'll see it could get ugly and result in total crap that is suppoed to represent CF. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:234004 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Hi, No MySQL support? Don't know about that one...since MySQL is free and powerful (I use it) I wouldn't cut that one out...they might start using Access... ;o) AFAIK MySQL is not free, at least not for commercial use. But, you are definitely right about Access, so better leave the MySQL driver in. ;-) Since you want to be able to introduce the newbies to all the powerful features of CF, would a full-featured free version work if it were limited to one domain? There are free alternatives... BlueDragon (for non-commercial use), IgniteFusion (upcoming version looks pretty good), and Railo (IMHO better than Ignite, targets 6.1 compatibility, very good performance, in most parts better performance than the original). One could easily start with one of these, and, if necessary, switch to CF for enterprise projects. Best, Chris ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:234006 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
AFAIK MySQL is not free, at least not for commercial use. But, you are definitely right about Access, so better leave the MySQL driver in. ;-) Actually MySQL is free for commercial use. The only time you have to buy a license is if you want to redistribute MySQL with a product. [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:234007 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
It's my understanding that MySQL is free for any use, except for development which packages MySQL in the product. Free alternatives, yes...but if I were Adobe, I'd want them cutting their teeth on my version of CF server... Rick -Original Message- From: CF [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 4:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Hi, No MySQL support? Don't know about that one...since MySQL is free and powerful (I use it) I wouldn't cut that one out...they might start using Access... ;o) AFAIK MySQL is not free, at least not for commercial use. But, you are definitely right about Access, so better leave the MySQL driver in. ;-) Since you want to be able to introduce the newbies to all the powerful features of CF, would a full-featured free version work if it were limited to one domain? There are free alternatives... BlueDragon (for non-commercial use), IgniteFusion (upcoming version looks pretty good), and Railo (IMHO better than Ignite, targets 6.1 compatibility, very good performance, in most parts better performance than the original). One could easily start with one of these, and, if necessary, switch to CF for enterprise projects. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:234008 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Lets be realistic though, we can't even market coldfusion right so how are we/they gunna market those alternitive products? Hell most of us don't even know about them. That's kinda like making a web site with the navigation only being done as keyboard shortcuts and having us expect that all the users will know the shortcuts...hell I don't even know the damn shortcuts lol. ~Dave the disruptor~ From: CF [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 4:53 PM To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Hi, No MySQL support? Don't know about that one...since MySQL is free and powerful (I use it) I wouldn't cut that one out...they might start using Access... ;o) AFAIK MySQL is not free, at least not for commercial use. But, you are definitely right about Access, so better leave the MySQL driver in. ;-) Since you want to be able to introduce the newbies to all the powerful features of CF, would a full-featured free version work if it were limited to one domain? There are free alternatives... BlueDragon (for non-commercial use), IgniteFusion (upcoming version looks pretty good), and Railo (IMHO better than Ignite, targets 6.1 compatibility, very good performance, in most parts better performance than the original). One could easily start with one of these, and, if necessary, switch to CF for enterprise projects. Best, Chris ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:234009 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
MySQL is definitely free, even for production use. --Ferg CF wrote: Hi, No MySQL support? Don't know about that one...since MySQL is free and powerful (I use it) I wouldn't cut that one out...they might start using Access... ;o) AFAIK MySQL is not free, at least not for commercial use. But, you are definitely right about Access, so better leave the MySQL driver in. ;-) Since you want to be able to introduce the newbies to all the powerful features of CF, would a full-featured free version work if it were limited to one domain? There are free alternatives... BlueDragon (for non-commercial use), IgniteFusion (upcoming version looks pretty good), and Railo (IMHO better than Ignite, targets 6.1 compatibility, very good performance, in most parts better performance than the original). One could easily start with one of these, and, if necessary, switch to CF for enterprise projects. Best, Chris ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:234010 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Actually MySQL is free for commercial use. The only time you have to buy a license is if you want to redistribute MySQL with a product. Hmmm... going from http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/ to the license detail pages, all I could find was, if your software is not GPL Licensed and free, you have to pay for MySQL. Although I don't use MySQL myself, I have friends who use it, so the information still is interesting to me. I submitted a question about this which license for web application use scenario via their web site, they should know. Best, Chris ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:234017 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Also from that site: Free use for those who never copy, modify or distribute. As long as you never distribute the MySQL Software in any way, you are free to use it for powering your application, irrespective of whether your application is under GPL license or not. http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/opensource-license.html On 3/2/06, CF [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually MySQL is free for commercial use. The only time you have to buy a license is if you want to redistribute MySQL with a product. Hmmm... going from http://www.mysql.com/company/legal/licensing/ to the license detail pages, all I could find was, if your software is not GPL Licensed and free, you have to pay for MySQL. -- CFAJAX docs and other useful articles: http://jr-holmes.coldfusionjournal.com/ ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:234024 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
So...what combination of development tools and the compiler would make Flex 2 not free...? And what did he show about CFEclipse that was so great? I don't use it, so I'm not that familiar with it. I'm a WYSIWYG interface developer and I code around that, so I perfer WYSIWYG tools. Will CFEclipse have a WYSIWYG environment in upcoming versions? Thanks for the info... Rick -Original Message- From: Brad Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:26 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Flex 2 and Ben Forta I just saw Ben Forta speak last night at a Kansas City user group about Flex 2 and I am sooo excited. I think there's a chance we can actually convince my boss to go for it now. One thing I didn't know that Ben said: If you wanted to code your markup in notepad and download the flash compiler for free, you could be using flex 2.0 for absolutely free. Of course, I don't know how you could stand to do that with the sweet stuff he was showing us in CFEclipse. :) ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233755 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Hey Rick, Flex Builder 2.0 is a WYSIWYG environment built on top of the Eclipse platform, so it can act as a plugin alongside CFEclipse, meaning you only need one IDE open to do both. Pretty cool stuff...! -Joe On 3/1/06, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So...what combination of development tools and the compiler would make Flex 2 not free...? And what did he show about CFEclipse that was so great? I don't use it, so I'm not that familiar with it. I'm a WYSIWYG interface developer and I code around that, so I perfer WYSIWYG tools. Will CFEclipse have a WYSIWYG environment in upcoming versions? Thanks for the info... Rick -Original Message- From: Brad Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:26 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Flex 2 and Ben Forta I just saw Ben Forta speak last night at a Kansas City user group about Flex 2 and I am sooo excited. I think there's a chance we can actually convince my boss to go for it now. One thing I didn't know that Ben said: If you wanted to code your markup in notepad and download the flash compiler for free, you could be using flex 2.0 for absolutely free. Of course, I don't know how you could stand to do that with the sweet stuff he was showing us in CFEclipse. :) ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233757 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
So...what combination of development tools and the compiler would make Flex 2 not free...? From what I understand, with the standard version of flex 2 (not enterprise), all you are paying for is your IDE per developer seat. You can do it one of two ways: - You can download Eclips for free, and then purchase the flex plug in for it - You can purchase a bundled version of eclipse with the Flex stuff already in it After you code your flex, it is compiled to a SWF ONCE, and then you deploy that SWF to the server just like any other flash animation with no special flex server needed (once again standard- NOT enterprise edition) There is no cost to deploy the Flex site, the only cost is in the software used to build it. But as Ben said, CFEclipse is a WYSIWYG editor which simply generates the markup and action script for you. You can use ANY editor you want (including notepad) to generate your code and Adobe won't care. They are just confident that their IDE is superior enough for people to buy it. You can download the compiler by itself for free if you wish (even though it is built into the $$ IDE) And what did he show about CFEclipse that was so great? Well, I have never used Eclipse before, but there were a number of cool things. You could control-click a cfc name and it would introspectively give you a list of methods. There was code auto complete for CF, the flex markup, and action script. When you declared a variable as a certain type, the IDE would add the appropriate import for you. And there was some cool things he did that I didn't totally understand were he would have the IDE generate an action script class to match the methods and properties of a CFC and vice versa-- so when flash remoting returned a CFC object the action script would be able to assign it to a class or something and it would understand what was in it. (PLEASE correct me here if necessary, I was barely following some of Ben's examples last night) And it was super easy to handle some sweet-looking transitions with no need for a timeline like traditional flash. You would just define two states, and tell it which transition to use to get from one to the other, and everything else was taken care of automatically. (That's probably more of a Flex 2 praise, than a CFEclipse goodie) ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233761 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Hi, Joe...thanks for the info... Now...is what you describe the current state of Flex Builder 2.0 or is that the version that's future state... And how much does (or will) it cost to play in this game of Flex 2.0 plugin and CFEclipse? What is and what will be is pretty confusing for someone on the outside looking in... Rick -Original Message- From: Joe Rinehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:47 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Hey Rick, Flex Builder 2.0 is a WYSIWYG environment built on top of the Eclipse platform, so it can act as a plugin alongside CFEclipse, meaning you only need one IDE open to do both. Pretty cool stuff...! -Joe On 3/1/06, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So...what combination of development tools and the compiler would make Flex 2 not free...? And what did he show about CFEclipse that was so great? I don't use it, so I'm not that familiar with it. I'm a WYSIWYG interface developer and I code around that, so I perfer WYSIWYG tools. Will CFEclipse have a WYSIWYG environment in upcoming versions? Thanks for the info... Rick -Original Message- From: Brad Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:26 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Flex 2 and Ben Forta I just saw Ben Forta speak last night at a Kansas City user group about Flex 2 and I am sooo excited. I think there's a chance we can actually convince my boss to go for it now. One thing I didn't know that Ben said: If you wanted to code your markup in notepad and download the flash compiler for free, you could be using flex 2.0 for absolutely free. Of course, I don't know how you could stand to do that with the sweet stuff he was showing us in CFEclipse. :) ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233762 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Now...is what you describe the current state of Flex Builder 2.0 or is that the version that's future state... This is right now. FlexBuilder 2 and Flex 2 are in public beta now, but I'm fairly confident that they won't change too much from their current form. FlexBuilder 2 can be installed as a plugin within your current Eclipse environment, or it can install Eclipse itself. And how much does (or will) it cost to play in this game of Flex 2.0 plugin and CFEclipse? Eclipse is free. The CFEclipse plugin is free. The Flex 2 framework will be free. The FlexBuilder 2 IDE will not be free, and Adobe hasn't released final pricing for it yet, but many Adobe people have made statements to the effect that it will be under $1,000, which is competitive with IDE pricing in general. What is and what will be is pretty confusing for someone on the outside looking in... Come on in! http://labs.adobe.com/ The public beta is free and open to everyone. I strongly recommend that you take some time to check it out. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233763 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
From what I've heard, CFEclipse will never have a WYSIWYG interface. !//-- andy matthews web developer ICGLink, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 615.370.1530 x737 --//- -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta So...what combination of development tools and the compiler would make Flex 2 not free...? And what did he show about CFEclipse that was so great? I don't use it, so I'm not that familiar with it. I'm a WYSIWYG interface developer and I code around that, so I perfer WYSIWYG tools. Will CFEclipse have a WYSIWYG environment in upcoming versions? Thanks for the info... Rick -Original Message- From: Brad Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:26 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Flex 2 and Ben Forta I just saw Ben Forta speak last night at a Kansas City user group about Flex 2 and I am sooo excited. I think there's a chance we can actually convince my boss to go for it now. One thing I didn't know that Ben said: If you wanted to code your markup in notepad and download the flash compiler for free, you could be using flex 2.0 for absolutely free. Of course, I don't know how you could stand to do that with the sweet stuff he was showing us in CFEclipse. :) ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233764 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
On 3/1/06, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Joe...thanks for the info... Now...is what you describe the current state of Flex Builder 2.0 or is that the version that's future state... And how much does (or will) it cost to play in this game of Flex 2.0 plugin and CFEclipse? What is and what will be is pretty confusing for someone on the outside looking in... Rick Rick, Hopefully this FAQ will answer all your questions: http://www.macromedia.com/software/flex/productinfo/faq/flex2_faq.html To specifically answer the pricing question: http://www.macromedia.com/software/flex/productinfo/faq/flex2_faq.html#item-2-3 Regards, Dave. ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233765 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Thanks, Brad, and everyone else for the info... I'll do some more checking into it and see if all this justifies a programming paradigm shift. Rick -Original Message- From: Brad Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 11:13 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta So...what combination of development tools and the compiler would make Flex 2 not free...? From what I understand, with the standard version of flex 2 (not enterprise), all you are paying for is your IDE per developer seat. You can do it one of two ways: - You can download Eclips for free, and then purchase the flex plug in for it - You can purchase a bundled version of eclipse with the Flex stuff already in it After you code your flex, it is compiled to a SWF ONCE, and then you deploy that SWF to the server just like any other flash animation with no special flex server needed (once again standard- NOT enterprise edition) There is no cost to deploy the Flex site, the only cost is in the software used to build it. But as Ben said, CFEclipse is a WYSIWYG editor which simply generates the markup and action script for you. You can use ANY editor you want (including notepad) to generate your code and Adobe won't care. They are just confident that their IDE is superior enough for people to buy it. You can download the compiler by itself for free if you wish (even though it is built into the $$ IDE) And what did he show about CFEclipse that was so great? Well, I have never used Eclipse before, but there were a number of cool things. You could control-click a cfc name and it would introspectively give you a list of methods. There was code auto complete for CF, the flex markup, and action script. When you declared a variable as a certain type, the IDE would add the appropriate import for you. And there was some cool things he did that I didn't totally understand were he would have the IDE generate an action script class to match the methods and properties of a CFC and vice versa-- so when flash remoting returned a CFC object the action script would be able to assign it to a class or something and it would understand what was in it. (PLEASE correct me here if necessary, I was barely following some of Ben's examples last night) And it was super easy to handle some sweet-looking transitions with no need for a timeline like traditional flash. You would just define two states, and tell it which transition to use to get from one to the other, and everything else was taken care of automatically. (That's probably more of a Flex 2 praise, than a CFEclipse goodie) ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233783 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta
Ben also mentioned that if you don't want to pay for Flex at all, you're free to use any other editor to hand code the XML file, and just compile it using the FLEX SDK. So basically the same thing as java, you can write it in any editor, and compile using the sdk, but if you want a nicer editor, you can pay for it. Russ -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 2:16 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta Thanks, Brad, and everyone else for the info... I'll do some more checking into it and see if all this justifies a programming paradigm shift. Rick -Original Message- From: Brad Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 11:13 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flex 2 and Ben Forta So...what combination of development tools and the compiler would make Flex 2 not free...? From what I understand, with the standard version of flex 2 (not enterprise), all you are paying for is your IDE per developer seat. You can do it one of two ways: - You can download Eclips for free, and then purchase the flex plug in for it - You can purchase a bundled version of eclipse with the Flex stuff already in it After you code your flex, it is compiled to a SWF ONCE, and then you deploy that SWF to the server just like any other flash animation with no special flex server needed (once again standard- NOT enterprise edition) There is no cost to deploy the Flex site, the only cost is in the software used to build it. But as Ben said, CFEclipse is a WYSIWYG editor which simply generates the markup and action script for you. You can use ANY editor you want (including notepad) to generate your code and Adobe won't care. They are just confident that their IDE is superior enough for people to buy it. You can download the compiler by itself for free if you wish (even though it is built into the $$ IDE) And what did he show about CFEclipse that was so great? Well, I have never used Eclipse before, but there were a number of cool things. You could control-click a cfc name and it would introspectively give you a list of methods. There was code auto complete for CF, the flex markup, and action script. When you declared a variable as a certain type, the IDE would add the appropriate import for you. And there was some cool things he did that I didn't totally understand were he would have the IDE generate an action script class to match the methods and properties of a CFC and vice versa-- so when flash remoting returned a CFC object the action script would be able to assign it to a class or something and it would understand what was in it. (PLEASE correct me here if necessary, I was barely following some of Ben's examples last night) And it was super easy to handle some sweet-looking transitions with no need for a timeline like traditional flash. You would just define two states, and tell it which transition to use to get from one to the other, and everything else was taken care of automatically. (That's probably more of a Flex 2 praise, than a CFEclipse goodie) ~Brad ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:233785 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
