Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
Why would you want temps hired for a few weeks to add new users while you are boring people at networkers, that dont sound so smart, on any os. Oh I know they could just assign Show Lebug privledge level 4 right:) And what account is needed to bounce a unix box are they running around with that too. Hi - Original Message - From: Sean Young To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 7:20 PM Subject: RE: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] These guys are CCIE certified. I checked with cisco. Wait a minute, I didn't say that these guys have to configure a Tacacs Server. Tacacs Server is already configured. They just have to restart it and add new users. I don't think it is too much to ask for CCIEs to learn the basic skills set of Unix. It seems CCIEs know how to use Microsoft Windows? Why not Unix? Didn't these guys ever attend college? As far as I am concerns that's where most people learn their Unix skills From: David Wolsefer To: 'Sean Young' CC: Subject: RE: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:37:35 -0700 While I agree that a lot of engineers could use more Unix skills (myself included), the CCIE in routing and switching does not test skills for running Unix TACACs servers. The CCIE in ISP-DIAL, however, is a different matter entirely since the ISP-Dial CCIE tests the ability to configure Cisco Secure under Windows NT and Solaris. Many RS CCIEs are not from a carrier background, but many are. When I worked at a major carrier, I never had to configure the Tacacs server. There was a seperate team for that. I did, however, frequently configure Tacacs+ on routers and switches. I have yet to have a single customer request to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). A CCIE is not an all knowing being. All that you can really infer from a person's CCIE status is that he/she knows routing and switching reasonably well on the 3600s, 2600s, 2500, Cat 5000s etc. I do think that even though a CCIE (RS) might not know how to configure a Tacacs server off the top of their head, they should have the skills to research the appropriate documentation, get help from TAC, and configure things given a reasonable amount of time. I would also like to point out that there are many people out there calling themselves CCIEs these days. Did you verify with Cisco that these people are really CCIEs? Why didn't you ask these people about their Tacacs knowledge before you hired them if this was important to you? Finally, this post is off topic. Why is it even posted to a Cisco certification mailing list without OFF TOPIC in the subject. Regards, David Wolsefer, CCIE #5858 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sean Young Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 4:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
u should have used 3 tacacs servers Sean Young wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13336t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
Yeah! ;-b -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of B.J. Wilson Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 6:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] You're attributing a fault in these guys to a certification which doesn't test on UNIX skills. In other words, they're CCIEs - they know more than you or I do about routing and switching on Cisco routers (presumably). But the CCIE is the *beginning* of an overall understanding of how networks work - it's not the end-all-be-all certification which automatically elevates someone to godlike status, as much as you might want them to be networking gods. This is actually one thing I'm worried about, should I ever achieve the CCIE certification: I don't want some future employer to say Oh, you're a CCIE, great - come over here and fix this NT server, only to be disappointed to learn that I know nothing about NT! The bottom line is: don't criticize a CCIE because they don't know how to use or manage a UNIX server. That's not what they've been trained to do, it's not what they're certified to do, and if you're smart, you won't hire someone to do UNIX stuff without making them prove that they *can* do it. In other words, quit your bellyaching. ;-) BJ - Original Message - From: Sean Young To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 6:14 PM Subject: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13362t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
Bugger off Sean! You've got quite a bit of nerve to presume that all CCIEs are created equal and share the same backgrounds. Some CCIEs are quite proficient in Unix and other disciplines while others prefer to stay more focused on Cisco centric solutions (nothing wrong with either option). Lets approach it from a different angle shall we? Lets say you were an emergency room physician and while during the course of an unusually busy evening, you approached a group of podiatrists(highly trained, and amply educated SPECIALISTS), to see if they could lend a hand and keep things afloat. A gun shot victim is admitted to the ER and our resident hero is nowhere to be found leaving only our fearless SPECIALIST to deal with something completely foreign to him. Would you fault the podiatrist who when left to realms that he is facil in dominates his speciality or would you penalize the numbskull ER doc who assumes that all DRs are created equal. Toodles, Will -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sean Young Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 6:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13363t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
I have a few comments. It sounds like Sean is looking for a confidence boost by this group. Wow, Sean, you must be really smart! I mean to have these Unix skills _and_ know something about Cisco routers. Oh my goodness! Maybe I could introduce you to my sister! Normally I don't respond to such messages, but for some reason, I thought this one required a response. If you're going to flame a group of people, I strongly suggest you do it with proper grammar. Yup, when I'm away for whatever reason, my company usually has to hire about a dozen CCIEs to replace me! Maybe you should design your network and servers to include a bit more redundancy, huh? Usually my better judgment prevails and stops me from sending messages like this. So, for all of those that I offended, I apologize. Enjoy your summer! Also, you work for such a great company, that you're the only one with these Unix skills? What company is it, Wal-Mart or Kmart? Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13184t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
I think the CCIE demonstrates an ability to learn at a certain level, and guarantees a certain level of knowledge on subjects tested by the written and lab exams. In my experience CCIE's tend to specialise in one (or a few) specific area(s) after that. I think there's a danger of being Jack of all trades, master of none otherwise. It always amazes me that companies will pay a set fee for a CCIE even though he may never have seen the equipment he's going to work on. The very fact that he's a CCIE, shows a higher than average aptitude to fault finding, so he may well succeed whatever, but there is no guarantee. There are occasions where an unqualified engineer may have more knowledge of a specific equipment than a CCIE and we've had occasions where the specification has been CCIE plus one junior engineer. The junior engineer has been the one doing a lot of the work because it's been something like Radius/RSA, where the junior engineer has been specialising. In my opinion, the people hiring the CCIE need to specify, for example, thorough understanding of Unix, and experience with Tacacs, otherwise they're only guaranteed subjects from the CCIE syllabus. My two penneth anyway. Got to go, the plumber's just turned up to fix my television? :-) Gaz Sean Young wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13189t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
I agree with Sean that a CCIE should be able to perform basic UNIX tasks and be familiar with UNIX as such but this here can quickly become a grey area . Because UNIX and networking are both vast fields in themselves ,expecting one person to be a master of both is not right . I work as a System Administrator and I have worked as a Network Engineer during my past projects . Not to say that I am a master of UNIX , I just know how to find my way through it . And then there are gifted individuals who have been around too long and came from Sys Admin positions and moved to Network Engineer positions .They might have best of both worlds .But remember Sean , you cannot have your cake and eat it too... Just my 2 cents Jaspreet Sean Young wrote: What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13152t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
Last time I checked, there was none of the following on the CCIE written or lab: Unix Tacacs Server Configuration X-application tunneling over SSL Would you also expect a CCIE to be able to configure CICS on your mainframe and troubleshoot terminal controller problems in VTAM on your FEP? No, I don't think so. Remember, the first C in CCIE stands for CISCO. Just because it's incredibly hard to get does not mean it's the ultimate pinnacle of networking achievement and there is nothing left to learn. In fact, I relate it to a black belt in martial arts. Those with experience understand that a black belt is yet another starting point, it's not the end of the road. Okay, enough rambling. Time to go home! John Sean Young 7/20/01 5:14:47 PM What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13153t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
Sean Not everyone can know everything about all Networking and OS's. You obviously know how your network runs, but is it documented?, and if so, is the documentation in a coherent library format? Sounds to me like this important information may not have passed on during your network turnover to these CCIEs. If you had planed ahead, you would have hired the people with a skill set that matches your business need. Yes, there may be CCIEs that can't do anything but Cisco products, but the assumption that everyone has your exact, and (by the sound of it) diverse skill set. I never would have turned my network over to a group without making sure they had the required skill set, or at least access to a large skill set base. Clarify before you flame! BTW, I'm not a CCIE, and may never be one. (only Cisco VARs benefit in my opinion) -Original Message- From: Sean Young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 4:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message or attachments hereto. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of this company shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13155t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
While I agree that a lot of engineers could use more Unix skills (myself included), the CCIE in routing and switching does not test skills for running Unix TACACs servers. The CCIE in ISP-DIAL, however, is a different matter entirely since the ISP-Dial CCIE tests the ability to configure Cisco Secure under Windows NT and Solaris. Many RS CCIEs are not from a carrier background, but many are. When I worked at a major carrier, I never had to configure the Tacacs server. There was a seperate team for that. I did, however, frequently configure Tacacs+ on routers and switches. I have yet to have a single customer request to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). A CCIE is not an all knowing being. All that you can really infer from a person's CCIE status is that he/she knows routing and switching reasonably well on the 3600s, 2600s, 2500, Cat 5000s etc. I do think that even though a CCIE (RS) might not know how to configure a Tacacs server off the top of their head, they should have the skills to research the appropriate documentation, get help from TAC, and configure things given a reasonable amount of time. I would also like to point out that there are many people out there calling themselves CCIEs these days. Did you verify with Cisco that these people are really CCIEs? Why didn't you ask these people about their Tacacs knowledge before you hired them if this was important to you? Finally, this post is off topic. Why is it even posted to a Cisco certification mailing list without OFF TOPIC in the subject. Regards, David Wolsefer, CCIE #5858 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sean Young Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 4:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13157t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
At 07:14 PM 7/20/01 -0400, Sean Young wrote: process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? So what is the problem? I mean, yes, it is unfortunate. However, in no way is it a requirement to become a CCIE. Would I prefer a CCIE with a unix background, yeah definitely. However, that is just asking for more candy coating. My guess is, past CCIEs had more experience because Cisco ACS was only available on unix maybe? -Carroll Kong Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13159t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
Hmm, maybe the fault lies in companies that only hire people who have a specific set of certifications to manage their networks. I, and for that matter several other non-CCIEs I know, could easily have handled your problem. I'm betting that you never even got the chance to see us, as the insistence on having a CCIE never let us get past the recruiter, HR department, or whoever made the hiring decision. I have met a lot of CCIEs that don't understand the first thing about supporting a production network. In fact, having a CCIE does not guarantee anything to anyone about anything other than you have passed the CCIE lab. If, in fact, your network has mutiple OSPF areas with a non-broadcast Frame-relay WAN, redistribuition of RIP, EIGRP into damn near everything, BGP confederations for three routers, and no static routes ever, the CCIEs would be emminently qualified to support your network. A CCIE number does not guarantee the ability to isolate and correct non-cisco issues, or the ability to clearly articulate a thought to a non-techie person. For that matter, the same can be said for hiring someone on the basis of having a 4.0 GPA, or being class president, or being a friend of your uncle Larry. When looking for someone to support your network you really need to sit down and discuss what that means and having an open mind as to the ability of the person sitting across from you to do the job. Of course, that is a lot harder than calling a recruiter and saying I need a CCIE to manage my network. - just doing a little not getting through HR venting! Sean Young wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13161t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
Come on guys. Everyone's point is very well taken. I am NOT saying that a CCIE also has to be an expert with Unix. All I am saying is that at the very least, have a basic understand of Unix OS so that one can accomplish basic tasks required by the job. I bet that all CCIEs knows how to change the network configuration in microsoft windows but not all CCIEs know how to do the same thing to a Unix system. The point I am trying to make here is that know the basic. I do notice the older CCIEs (#3500 and lower) are very well diversifed with both their Cisco and Unix skills. The newer only know point and click. From: John Neiberger Reply-To: John Neiberger To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:32:53 -0400 Last time I checked, there was none of the following on the CCIE written or lab: Unix Tacacs Server Configuration X-application tunneling over SSL Would you also expect a CCIE to be able to configure CICS on your mainframe and troubleshoot terminal controller problems in VTAM on your FEP? No, I don't think so. Remember, the first C in CCIE stands for CISCO. Just because it's incredibly hard to get does not mean it's the ultimate pinnacle of networking achievement and there is nothing left to learn. In fact, I relate it to a black belt in martial arts. Those with experience understand that a black belt is yet another starting point, it's not the end of the road. Okay, enough rambling. Time to go home! JohnSean Young 7/20/01 5:14:47 PM What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13167t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
Well, a ccie doesn't know how to fix the NT server; however, he/she does know how change the IP address of the NT server or how to reboot the box right? I would expect that CCIE to be able to do the same thing with a Unix box. He/she doesn't have to manage the Unix server, just know that basic troubleshooting stuffs. To my knowledge, Linux and Solaris x86 are free so those basic Unix skills can be learned very quickly. From: B.J. Wilson Reply-To: B.J. Wilson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:38:56 -0400 You're attributing a fault in these guys to a certification which doesn't test on UNIX skills. In other words, they're CCIEs - they know more than you or I do about routing and switching on Cisco routers (presumably). But the CCIE is the *beginning* of an overall understanding of how networks work - it's not the end-all-be-all certification which automatically elevates someone to godlike status, as much as you might want them to be networking gods. This is actually one thing I'm worried about, should I ever achieve the CCIE certification: I don't want some future employer to say Oh, you're a CCIE, great - come over here and fix this NT server, only to be disappointed to learn that I know nothing about NT! The bottom line is: don't criticize a CCIE because they don't know how to use or manage a UNIX server. That's not what they've been trained to do, it's not what they're certified to do, and if you're smart, you won't hire someone to do UNIX stuff without making them prove that they *can* do it. In other words, quit your bellyaching. ;-) BJ - Original Message - From: Sean Young To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 6:14 PM Subject: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13168t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
These guys are CCIE certified. I checked with cisco. Wait a minute, I didn't say that these guys have to configure a Tacacs Server. Tacacs Server is already configured. They just have to restart it and add new users. I don't think it is too much to ask for CCIEs to learn the basic skills set of Unix. It seems CCIEs know how to use Microsoft Windows? Why not Unix? Didn't these guys ever attend college? As far as I am concerns that's where most people learn their Unix skills From: David Wolsefer To: 'Sean Young' CC: Subject: RE: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:37:35 -0700 While I agree that a lot of engineers could use more Unix skills (myself included), the CCIE in routing and switching does not test skills for running Unix TACACs servers. The CCIE in ISP-DIAL, however, is a different matter entirely since the ISP-Dial CCIE tests the ability to configure Cisco Secure under Windows NT and Solaris. Many RS CCIEs are not from a carrier background, but many are. When I worked at a major carrier, I never had to configure the Tacacs server. There was a seperate team for that. I did, however, frequently configure Tacacs+ on routers and switches. I have yet to have a single customer request to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). A CCIE is not an all knowing being. All that you can really infer from a person's CCIE status is that he/she knows routing and switching reasonably well on the 3600s, 2600s, 2500, Cat 5000s etc. I do think that even though a CCIE (RS) might not know how to configure a Tacacs server off the top of their head, they should have the skills to research the appropriate documentation, get help from TAC, and configure things given a reasonable amount of time. I would also like to point out that there are many people out there calling themselves CCIEs these days. Did you verify with Cisco that these people are really CCIEs? Why didn't you ask these people about their Tacacs knowledge before you hired them if this was important to you? Finally, this post is off topic. Why is it even posted to a Cisco certification mailing list without OFF TOPIC in the subject. Regards, David Wolsefer, CCIE #5858 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sean Young Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 4:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13169t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
X-application tunneling over SSL. This is a very interesting concept. I didn't know that this is possible. From: John Neiberger Reply-To: John Neiberger To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:32:53 -0400 Last time I checked, there was none of the following on the CCIE written or lab: Unix Tacacs Server Configuration X-application tunneling over SSL Would you also expect a CCIE to be able to configure CICS on your mainframe and troubleshoot terminal controller problems in VTAM on your FEP? No, I don't think so. Remember, the first C in CCIE stands for CISCO. Just because it's incredibly hard to get does not mean it's the ultimate pinnacle of networking achievement and there is nothing left to learn. In fact, I relate it to a black belt in martial arts. Those with experience understand that a black belt is yet another starting point, it's not the end of the road. Okay, enough rambling. Time to go home! JohnSean Young 7/20/01 5:14:47 PM What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13170t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
Okay, what is BASIC? Knowing how to change network configuration of windows is basic, because most people use windows on their PCs. If some CCIEs do not know how to configure Unix boxes and still finish their daily tasks, this means to these CCIEs Unix skills are not basic. When you hire them, you should know what they can do, if you want to them to do something they still do not know yet, let them know your requirement and give them time or some training to learn it. All CCIEs know how to learn, this is how they got their numbers. If I am not the administrator of a box, the last thing I want to do is to touch the box without letting the admin know it, we all know this typical story happening to everyone all the time: You walk into a computer room, put a card on a router, the time you finish this, the router on a seperate rack 30 feet away reboots itself, you are the only one in the computer room, so you, to some extend on your boss mind, are resposible for this. KY Sean Young wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Come on guys. Everyone's point is very well taken. I am NOT saying that a CCIE also has to be an expert with Unix. All I am saying is that at the very least, have a basic understand of Unix OS so that one can accomplish basic tasks required by the job. I bet that all CCIEs knows how to change the network configuration in microsoft windows but not all CCIEs know how to do the same thing to a Unix system. The point I am trying to make here is that know the basic. I do notice the older CCIEs (#3500 and lower) are very well diversifed with both their Cisco and Unix skills. The newer only know point and click. From: John Neiberger Reply-To: John Neiberger To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:32:53 -0400 Last time I checked, there was none of the following on the CCIE written or lab: Unix Tacacs Server Configuration X-application tunneling over SSL Would you also expect a CCIE to be able to configure CICS on your mainframe and troubleshoot terminal controller problems in VTAM on your FEP? No, I don't think so. Remember, the first C in CCIE stands for CISCO. Just because it's incredibly hard to get does not mean it's the ultimate pinnacle of networking achievement and there is nothing left to learn. In fact, I relate it to a black belt in martial arts. Those with experience understand that a black belt is yet another starting point, it's not the end of the road. Okay, enough rambling. Time to go home! JohnSean Young 7/20/01 5:14:47 PM What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13171t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.
Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Sean Young wrote: Come on guys. Everyone's point is very well taken. I am NOT saying that a CCIE also has to be an expert with Unix. All I am saying is that at the very least, have a basic understand of Unix OS so that one can ??? Cisco has no relation to any UN*Xso why should a CCIE be expected to be familiar with it just becuase he is a CCIE? Obviously, if you had spec'd that you needed a CCIE who was familar with unix, as well as the software in question, you would have had people who could do the task. accomplish basic tasks required by the job. I bet that all CCIEs knows how to change the network configuration in microsoft windows but not all I'd be willing to bet last months rent payment that there is at least one CCIE out there who /doesnt/ know how to make the required changes on a windows machine..perhaps he or she grew up out of a Mac environment, for example. If you have a position that requires certian skillsets make SURE the people who fill the position match those skillsets. If you rely on a certification that has nothing to do with any of the other skills you need..well. You get what you get. Everyone was a newbie at one time or another. And the rest of us find there is always more to learn, certifications or no. ...david --- david raistrick (deep in the south georgia woods) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13172t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
Hey, Please dont use the CCIE Certificate number to classify the level of the CCIE . that's your opinion, please respect with those late comers... Sean Young wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Come on guys. Everyone's point is very well taken. I am NOT saying that a CCIE also has to be an expert with Unix. All I am saying is that at the very least, have a basic understand of Unix OS so that one can accomplish basic tasks required by the job. I bet that all CCIEs knows how to change the network configuration in microsoft windows but not all CCIEs know how to do the same thing to a Unix system. The point I am trying to make here is that know the basic. I do notice the older CCIEs (#3500 and lower) are very well diversifed with both their Cisco and Unix skills. The newer only know point and click. From: John Neiberger Reply-To: John Neiberger To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:32:53 -0400 Last time I checked, there was none of the following on the CCIE written or lab: Unix Tacacs Server Configuration X-application tunneling over SSL Would you also expect a CCIE to be able to configure CICS on your mainframe and troubleshoot terminal controller problems in VTAM on your FEP? No, I don't think so. Remember, the first C in CCIE stands for CISCO. Just because it's incredibly hard to get does not mean it's the ultimate pinnacle of networking achievement and there is nothing left to learn. In fact, I relate it to a black belt in martial arts. Those with experience understand that a black belt is yet another starting point, it's not the end of the road. Okay, enough rambling. Time to go home! JohnSean Young 7/20/01 5:14:47 PM What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again. Comments anyone? Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=13177t=13151 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151]
Well, This Cisco guy knows how to configure, trouble shoot, install, and just about anything on an NT or 2000 box... As well as a Novell Box v3-1x -4.x. As far as Unix, well, not much expertise there... I can install various versions of Linux, but my demands of other areas have been far too great to specialize in everything... If it were my company, and I needed someone to work on my NT servers, I would hire an MCSE, or Novell Servers, a CNE... if I need a Cisco guy, thats what I would hire... I agree that skills should be spread around, but you need to specialize... Not be a jack of all trades... master of none... But instead a master of one, and some knowledge of a few others... A CCIE is a bit too expensive to be fooling around with unix Box configs... But knowledge of different systems wont hurt, but I dont see it as beeing mandatory... Now for the first CCIES... I doubt they have had any pressing need over the past few years to learn or certify in Operating Systems... In fact the first ones, have been held on to by Cisco, and are probobly the ones who came up with things like EIGRP etc... Doubt the company they work for has asked them to modify client systems... - Original Message - From: Sean Young To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 9:12 PM Subject: Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] Well, a ccie doesn't know how to fix the NT server; however, he/she does know how change the IP address of the NT server or how to reboot the box right? I would expect that CCIE to be able to do the same thing with a Unix box. He/she doesn't have to manage the Unix server, just know that basic troubleshooting stuffs. To my knowledge, Linux and Solaris x86 are free so those basic Unix skills can be learned very quickly. From: B.J. Wilson Reply-To: B.J. Wilson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:38:56 -0400 You're attributing a fault in these guys to a certification which doesn't test on UNIX skills. In other words, they're CCIEs - they know more than you or I do about routing and switching on Cisco routers (presumably). But the CCIE is the *beginning* of an overall understanding of how networks work - it's not the end-all-be-all certification which automatically elevates someone to godlike status, as much as you might want them to be networking gods. This is actually one thing I'm worried about, should I ever achieve the CCIE certification: I don't want some future employer to say Oh, you're a CCIE, great - come over here and fix this NT server, only to be disappointed to learn that I know nothing about NT! The bottom line is: don't criticize a CCIE because they don't know how to use or manage a UNIX server. That's not what they've been trained to do, it's not what they're certified to do, and if you're smart, you won't hire someone to do UNIX stuff without making them prove that they *can* do it. In other words, quit your bellyaching. ;-) BJ - Original Message - From: Sean Young To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 6:14 PM Subject: what's wrong with CCIE today? [7:13151] What's wrong with CCIEs today? I know that I am making a general assumptions; however,this is the second time that it has happend to the company that I work for. We have several tacacs servers that use to authenticate users. These tacacs servers are running on a combination of Linux and Solaris platforms. While I was away at the Networker Conference, one of our tacacs servers (solaris) die due to hardware failure and the amazingly the tacacs process on the Linux die. Because of this, everyone has to login to the routers and switches via local account. We hire these CCIEs to maintain the network while I am away for a few weeks. None of these CCIEs have any background with tacacs servers running on Unix platforms. As to our problems, the simple to do is just to restart the tacacs process byfirst: killall tac_plus and second /usr/sbin/tac_plus -C /etc/tacacs/tac_plus.cfg but these CCIEs guys have absolutely no clues. Furthermore, they don't even know how to use editing in Unix (i.e vi or emacs) and ended up screwing up my tacacs configuration files. We have a few employees that need tacacs account but these CCIEs guys have no clues how to addnew users to a configuration file which if anyone has done tacacs on the unix platform know that you just modify the configuration file tac_plus.conf and restart tacacs process. These CCIE guys say that they come from a windows environment so they don't have too much with Unix platforms. I also notice that a lot of CCIEs these days lack the Unix skills that are required for the Service Providers environment. Most don't even know how to tunnel X-application through Secure Shell (SSH). I still remember those days when Cisco Engineers are very well verse in both unix and routers skills. I long for those days again
