Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Now it is time to get rid of Cox and Comcast. We might not agree on everything Tom, but I wholeheartedly agree with you here! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
We will and we wont. Three things I see missing from the mix nowadays which made ATT so powerful. Manufacturing. None of the companies today not even the New ATT have manufacturing capabilities today. In the old days AT did all their own manufacturing. Not a p[hone sold, installed,used on the ATT network was made by an outside company. Even teh wire they used to run lines was all ATT manufactured. None of it exists anymore. Bell Labs. I am not sure what happened with Bell Labs but they were a premiere research arm at one time. I think someone has mentioned it here before but the transistor and some other stuff came out of Bell Labs. ATT long lines. I am not sure what happened to that one either. Long Lines was were a lot of the money was. The biggest fight was over who got paid and how much for long distance connections and coverage. MCI made heir money by reselling long distance between certain points. They undercut AT by using high volume points to make their money. I am not sure who controls the long distance lines anymore. But there is no loner the strangle hold that ATT once held. We are seeing a convergence once again but it is a different convergence than what it was. Cell coverage and Home coverage. Stewart At 12:03 AM 9/18/2008, you wrote: Well, it soon will be under either the same or another name. The whole reason SBC rebranded itself as ATT after they bought the old ATT was that people didn't know SBC from a hole in the wall but they DID know ATT. No it's not the same company. But it's all a part of what WAS the Bell System. Verizon chose to call itself Verizon when it bought GTE, not when it bought NYNEX. Then it was still Bell Atlantic. When we bought MCI at a fire-sale price we got UUNET and MCI, but we were not going to call ourselves WorldCom or MCI. Alcatel/Lucent (and Telcordia) are on the table as I see it. I know what happened, my question is why we had to jump through these hoops to get back to where we were in 1984. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Tell me about it. In 2003, I bought a cell phone plan with ATT Wireless. They've since been bought out by Cingular who has since changed their name to ATT. When calling in for questions, I'm still in the habit of asking if the person is a blue or orange agent as the blue agents were from ATT and the orange are from the Cingular side of the house. The blue agents are still friendly and helpful. The orange agents would rather rain agent orange down on you than help you. -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rev. Stewart Marshall Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:34 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes In 1984 Judge Green forced ATT to divest itself of the baby bells. They all became separate and independent companies who no longer had to buy equipment from ATt etc. After 1984 Western Electric became ATT manufacturing (I know my dad worked for them at this time) The plants got smaller and smaller because the baby bells did not have to buy from mama bell anymore and all did their own thing. I believe that there are no phones manufactured in the US anymore. Most of the old Western plants are all closed. Later on AT manufacturing got spun off as Lucent, they combined with Avaya (sic) and then they got absorbed by Alcatel. ATT got ealner and worse off. The Baby Bells have become bigger than their parent and yes they are converging back. No doubt about it, but the new ATT is not the old ATT. Stewart At 11:21 PM 9/17/2008, you wrote: By the way the ATT they talked about in the article no longer exists. The new ATT is actually one of the baby bells that was divested in 1984. Are you sure about that? Start by clicking on some of the links. You should be done reading by say, late October. And I know you're a fast reader. Early in my career an older and wiser employee said, You think the phone company broke up? You're wrong. Culturally Verizon/Nynex/Bell Atlantic/GTE/MCI and SBC/Bell South/Ameritech/ATT/Pacific Telesis, and Qwest are basically all Bell System components. Except that now they all play in all arenas as far as transport is concerned. Equipment and RD are still separate but convergence is inevitable. We are heading in the direction of what we had before all of the regulation. I'm going to get in trouble for saying that. *** ** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *** ** Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
The solution may be as simple as to void all exclusive franchises and any legislation that keeps communities from entering the market to correct market inefficiencies that may cause them to get bypassed. Or... go running to ISPs that don't have limits and don't plan to use them. Which ones are those? The smaller, independent firms. In Northern California is a 15 (or so) year old firm called Sonic.Net that currently doesn't have and doesn't plan on imposing limits. I just have to get SBC (the local baby bell that bought out ATT) to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe the static on my phone lines is *their* problem. Once that's licked, I'll gleefully switch to Sonic.Net Larry * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Bell Labs. I am not sure what happened with Bell Labs but they were a premiere research arm at one time. I think someone has mentioned it here before but the transistor and some other stuff came out of Bell Labs. Does Bell Labs still exist? Depends on what you mean by Bell Labs. I saw a PBS program (a Nova, I think) in which Bell Labs veterans of the 50's, 60's, and 70's complained that the atmosphere and working conditions had changed so much, just before they left, that it was no longer possible to do the same kind of breakthrough research that had been possible under the more generous support that had been provided earlier. As far as THEY were concerned, Bell Labs had ceased to exist. However, the laboratories continued in various forms and through various mergers after the breakup of ATT, with some impressive achievements. This year, the current form of Bell Labs (Alcatel-Lucent) stopped research in basic science and announced that research in the future would concentrate on applied research in marketable areas. This narrow focus on applied research is not in the spirit of the earlier Bell Labs. So did the breakup of ATT kill Bell Labs? Maybe, maybe not. The earlier Bell Labs has been portrayed as a scientific utopia, which it may well have been. But few corporations are anywhere near that generous, and it's probably unrealistic to expect utopias to last. --Constance Warner * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
That explains that. If it is part of Alcatel Lucent it is a dead horse. Western Electric did some of their own testing research (I visited the plant a lot as my dad worked there, and even I worked there one summer) They manufactured almost 100% of what went into the phone, even down to the screws. Not many companies do that anymore. Stewart At 01:30 PM 9/18/2008, you wrote: Does Bell Labs still exist? Depends on what you mean by Bell Labs. I saw a PBS program (a Nova, I think) in which Bell Labs veterans of the 50's, 60's, and 70's complained that the atmosphere and working conditions had changed so much, just before they left, that it was no longer possible to do the same kind of breakthrough research that had been possible under the more generous support that had been provided earlier. As far as THEY were concerned, Bell Labs had ceased to exist. However, the laboratories continued in various forms and through various mergers after the breakup of ATT, with some impressive achievements. This year, the current form of Bell Labs (Alcatel-Lucent) stopped research in basic science and announced that research in the future would concentrate on applied research in marketable areas. This narrow focus on applied research is not in the spirit of the earlier Bell Labs. So did the breakup of ATT kill Bell Labs? Maybe, maybe not. The earlier Bell Labs has been portrayed as a scientific utopia, which it may well have been. But few corporations are anywhere near that generous, and it's probably unrealistic to expect utopias to last. --Constance Warner Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
My dad was one of those manager-engineers, and managed an Industrial Engineering department. He helped make the lines run efficiently, but also well. Even for line workers pay was good. I made 5.50 an hour 30 years ago. That was as a summer college (well I was in grad school) student working on the line. They had a program where they would hire the children of workers for the summer to give them summer employment. (both of my brothers worked there at one time. That summer there were two of us plus my ad, all working different shifts.) They also had college loan programs for employees to help put their kids through school. Oh did I mention their credit union? They were a top class outfit at the time. By the way they also had top flight security. No one got in without an ID and no one walked out with a package unless it was inspected. (Remember this was 30 years ago.) Got one of my first computers (IBM) from my dad. They sold ATT 6300 refurb's to employees at a huge discount. For that day as a middle level manger my dad earned well. (I actually earn less than my dad did in actual dollars not event taking in account inflation etc.) Western Electric was a great company in it's day. Stewart At 05:54 PM 9/18/2008, you wrote: Not directly, but certainly indirectly. As a regulated utility ATT was a haven for manager-engineers. There was an emphasis on making things the right way. After the break up the reformed companies were flooded with MBAs who disdained technology, knowing that the best way to make money was to slash the workforce, slash research, and manipulate the stock price. So they went from one extreme to the other. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Regulated public utilities worked well. It limited the ability of utilities to just raise rates to increase returns, and limited them to request rate increases when they could prove increased costs. Regulated public utilities stopped working well when their regulators got politicized by the neo-cons. Look at the FCC. This was once run by manager-engineer types whose goal was to make the technology work to the benefit of the owners of the airwaves (and those owners were the American people). Then the neo-con jihad replaced the manager-engineer types with sleasy pols. Their goal was to help jack up the share prices of megacorps owned by friends and contributors. Ditto for the financial regulators. We need to get the pols back out of the regulatory agencies and put engineers, scientists, economists, and other smart people in charge. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Not directly, but certainly indirectly. As a regulated utility ATT was a haven for manager-engineers. There was an emphasis on making things the right way. After the break up the reformed companies were flooded with MBAs who disdained technology, knowing that the best way to make money was to slash the workforce, slash research, and manipulate the stock price. So they went from one extreme to the other. Not really, I would have noticed. I think. I'm actually in it because I like playing around with a really big ass network and some bitchin' cool technology. This place is hacker heaven with climate control, I love my job. The culture really hasn't changed that much from the Bell days. We may have a fair number of MBAs scuttling around but most of the management did it the hard way and came up from the ranks, at least in core telecom. Our CEO started out as a cable splicer's assistant. Twenty-five years ago I was a directory assistance operator. Those aren't bad jobs, either. That was the Bell System way. I'm not saying it was a perfect system or that it is a perfect system, it's hierarchial to a military extent. But when you have a responsibility to maintain and manage a national communications infrastructure that's the way it has to be. I don't know how anyone else runs their business. I don't honestly care. I know bad decisions and bad regulation have happened in the past and will likely happen in the future. I have to play the cards I have today and do it by the book that has been written by all the managers, engineers, and other personnel that have come before me. Sometimes I get to add or edit a page in the book. Sometimes I get to reward emerging talent. I really like to be able to promote deserving people. At the end of the day I absolutely have to be responsible for the continuing, reliable operation of the network. We're still a regulated public utility. Which is hard for a former free-range hacker to grasp, but if I can get used to it I guess it isn't hard to imagine that others can. I speak only for myself. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Back then we were at the point where a regulated monopoly was no longer serving the public good. ATT and become ossified. We had a communications network that only allowed voice communication when the world was opening up to communication between machines. I'm building out as fast as I can. I can see an eight-ball when I'm behind it and the bus is coming, thanks. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Is pursuing a murderer or a thief micromananging? How about those meddlers in the fire department? Should we not let fires rage free? Oh my. Being a half-assed govt created and approved monopoly is now the equivalent to that of a violent criminal? Has Comcast actually committed a *crime*? You must be a pip at your neighborhood watch meetings. I saw you not come to a complete and full stop at the stop sign the other morning and YOU, you, your hedges are exactly 1 inch over the height allowed by association rules! Guards! GUARDS! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Oh my. Being a half-assed govt created and approved monopoly is now the equivalent to that of a violent criminal? Has Comcast actually committed a *crime*? You are quite a spinner. Here we go for another round of Thank You for Not Smoking. I think the events in the financial markets over the last few days should have refocused our attention on what should be considered criminal. If I were to drive a car recklessly and cause you to leave the road and be injured that would be a criminal act. In fact, just the first part would be criminal. Why should some fat cat who pays himself $1,000,000/day not be held responsible for operating a company recklessly in a manner that causes huge losses to the nation's economy, causes innocent people to lose their jobs, homes, savings, pensions, etc. and leaves the government holding the bag for $trillions? With Comcast and their ilk we are seeing new storm clouds on the horizon. Instead of upgrading their networks they downgrade our service, lie about the technology, and corrupt our governing system to perpetuate their thievery. Their greedy mismanagement is going to crash the USA's information economy. Acting today could right the system with mininal impact. Waiting until we discover that the USA has slipped way behind the rest of the world in this vital field will put the country into a position not unlike the current financial crisis, except fixing it will be a lot harder and costlier. The solution may be as simple as to void all exclusive franchises and any legislation that keeps communities from entering the market to correct market inefficiencies that may cause them to get bypassed. Another solution would be to enforce universal service to eliminate cherry picking and to set minimum service standards (network neutrality, no caps, no throttling, etc.). As we have seen with FIOS and they systems now spreading in Europe and Asia, broadband can be a lot better and cheaper than it is in tha USA. What kind of nonsense is it when companies lie to us about the high cost of a product that is demonstrably cheaper to produce than even a year ago! We're quibbling about 2Mb, 6Mb, 10Mb service while they're testing 1Gb service in Amsterdam and in Sweden! Amen! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
On Sep 16, 2008, at 9:45 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: If Comcast is a regulated public utility and you pay your bills do they really have the right to cut off your service for any other reason? I do not believe that Comcast is a publicly regulated utility, at least not around where I live. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Cable companies are not anywhere. Cable companies operate at the whim/franchise agreement of a local community. Nothing about them is a regulated utility. That is why Phone Companies have screamed about what Cable can get away with while they are regulated. Stewart At 10:36 AM 9/17/2008, you wrote: I do not believe that Comcast is a publicly regulated utility, at least not around where I live. Steve Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Steve Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Why should some fat cat who pays himself $1,000,000/day not be held [responsible?] snip! The pit bull with lipstick is gonna roll into DC and correct all of this with her big 'ole moose guttin' knife. In the meantime, just chill. Help is on the way. Steve Awesome! I will start holding my breath...now! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
-Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Emmerling Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:22 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Steve Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Why should some fat cat who pays himself $1,000,000/day not be held [responsible?] snip! The pit bull with lipstick is gonna roll into DC and correct all of this with her big 'ole moose guttin' knife. In the meantime, just chill. Help is on the way. Steve Awesome! I will start holding my breath...now! In the interest of equal opportunity political whining... Don't worry about this, Barack and Biden will make everything all better. In the meantime, just chill. Help is on the way. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
BTW, Palin will be VICE President if McCain is elected. If that happens, let's hope he stays healthy and that she doesn't try to pull a Cheney. Incidentally, she has turned against and betrayed nearly every political figure who has ever helped her, so if McCain is elected, it could be an interesting four years. (BTW, as far as an improved internet or wireless network goes: she has a record of not funding infrastructure, other than a hockey rink that left the town of Wasilla in debt.) Pit bull is a pretty good description. (OT Warning: posting a link to a news story at the BOTTOM of this email, on Palin Wasilla under her watch. If you don't want anything OT, please avoid it.) --Constance Warner On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Steve Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Why should some fat cat who pays himself $1,000,000/day not be held [responsible?] snip! The pit bull with lipstick is gonna roll into DC and correct all of this with her big 'ole moose guttin' knife. In the meantime, just chill. Help is on the way. Steve Awesome! I will start holding my breath...now! Here's the OT link: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/11/politics/animal/main4441978.sh tml * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
On Sep 17, 2008, at 1:37 PM, Larry Sacks wrote: In the interest of equal opportunity political whining... Don't worry about this, Barack and Biden will make everything all better. In the meantime, just chill. Help is on the way. Absolutely. We would not want to leave any of our hot air laden politicians out of the solution. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
My connection is that nothing much will happen NO MATTER WHICH of the two major party candidates are elected. We will not elect anyone who wants to change the status quo. They will just move around the deck chairs a little on the cruise ship. Stewart At 01:29 PM 9/17/2008, you wrote: Absolutely. We would not want to leave any of our hot air laden politicians out of the solution. Steve Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
At 1:46 PM -0500 9/17/08, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: My connection is that nothing much will happen NO MATTER WHICH of the two major party candidates are elected. We will not elect anyone who wants to change the status quo. They will just move around the deck chairs a little on the cruise ship. That's awfully cynical for a man of the cloth! I thought you guys (and gals, nowadays) were all about hope? -- Roger Lovettsville, VA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Yes but not in the things of man. My hope is built on nothing less, than Jesus and his righteousness. That is how the hymn is sung. I pray for my leaders and such, but I do not put my faith in them dangerous thing, putting faith in man. Stewart At 02:24 PM 9/17/2008, you wrote: That's awfully cynical for a man of the cloth! I thought you guys (and gals, nowadays) were all about hope? -- Roger Lovettsville, VA Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
The solution may be as simple as to void all exclusive franchises and any legislation that keeps communities from entering the market to correct market inefficiencies that may cause them to get bypassed. By God, there's hope for you yet. Maybe the idiot king of the FCC, Kevin Martin, can abuse his powers for good for a change and do just that. It would probably fall apart in the first court case, but waiting for counties and municipalities to give up their fat franchise fees, well, Godot, would get there first. Take 'em kicking and screaming out of the 1950's, I say. Another solution would be to enforce universal service to eliminate cherry picking and to set minimum service standards (network neutrality, no caps, no throttling, etc.). Oo, so close. So much for hope. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
On Sep 16, 2008, at 9:21 AM, Jeff Wright wrote: Or, allow competition in the market instead of perpetuating the same idiotic guvmint-enforced monopoly scheme. Are these monopoly schemes that are enforced by the government actually hatched by the corporation to whom the government has capitulated? In other words, in the county where I live, Cox has the monopoly. Was the concept of providing a monopoly to some entity solely the idea of my local government, or were corporations pushing the concept upon the government through their lobbyists and political donations, with Cox managing to come out on top? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
This issue is getting noticed: On WAMU right now (NOT the Computer Guys): a program on limiting bandwidth (and spam laws). FWIW. --Constance Warner * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Hopefully this show is more knowledgeable then CG is. None of the guests at present with Kojo seem to know much at all about any computers, at least with Tom there you could get good mac info between the occasional windows is dog doodoo rant. Small example...Allison said google chrome had no bookmarking feature, after being corrected she amended that well yes it was there but burried. Burried right at the top next to the address bar. Then she said something about liking a new feature where you could search in the same field as where you input web addresses, only it isn't a new feature it's been in FF for some time. I note these small things just because of the general unfamiliarity with computers they seem to have. As if they don't actually use them or the programs they talk about...they just have read things about something called computers. I keep thinking there must be guests out there with more knowledge, I listen to most of Leo Laporte's twit casts, as well as his radio show at times. The guy has a big brain on macs and windows. He can't be the only one. I hope at some point WAMU will get at least one on the panel that knows what they are doing. Mike On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 9:10 AM, Constance Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This issue is getting noticed: On WAMU right now (NOT the Computer Guys): a program on limiting bandwidth (and spam laws). FWIW. --Constance Warner * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
8 years of failure isn't enough for you true believers? After stripping the People of their legal protections they let the corporate giants run amuck. What we got is in the daily news -- a crumbling economy. Did you 'cc' this to Craigslist's Rants and Raves Surf over to Google news and see what responsible journalists are reporting. Stop reading fantasy-land bloggers. Do you mean the responsible journalists that write for Washington Post, the NY Times, CNN, etc? Or were you referring to some other publication? Seems most journalists write what they think you should think and not the facts. I know it's difficult not to get caught up in the story and want to let your feelings run amok, but really, journalists *should* be impartial in their writing. Shame they rarely ever do Larry * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
A rant that could use a healthy dose (okay, any dose) of fact-checking itself. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry Sacks Seems most journalists write what they think you should think and not the facts. I know it's difficult not to get caught up in the story and want to let your feelings run amok, but really, journalists *should* be impartial in their writing. Shame they rarely ever do * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
If you want the market to rule you can't allow oligopoly to rule. Pushing both simultaneously is crazy talk. Yes, when reality is right there in front of you and you keep preaching fantasy-land politics instead on well-established economics that is crazy talk. You and your ilk created the damaged situation by supporting politicians that allowed decades of local monopoly control of cable and phones and and now you don't like the results? Too bad. Stop voting for people who promise you free ponies. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Are these monopoly schemes that are enforced by the government actually hatched by the corporation to whom the government has capitulated? In other words, in the county where I live, Cox has the monopoly. Was the concept of providing a monopoly to some entity solely the idea of my local government, or were corporations pushing the concept upon the government through their lobbyists and political donations, with Cox managing to come out on top? Who knows which came first, but the scmucks at the local level bought into the flawed idea that only way anyone could get cable is if they gave the cableco a monpoly to recoup the costs of laying the cable. The infrastructure has long been installed and costs long ago recovered, but even now, as in the case in Monkey County MD, you can sell cable services only if the powers that be magnanimously deign to allow you to do so, as was the case with Verizon. And Comcast fought them every step of the way to maintain their stranglehold. (Which led to one corrupt and/or dunderheaded council member in to pronounce that competition doesn't work a whole *3 months* (!) after Verizon was granted permission to compete, because Verizon only managed to wire a couple thousand homes in that time.) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Or, allow competition in the market instead of perpetuating the same idiotic guvmint-enforced monopoly scheme. Yeah, I know, crazy talk. That's heresy! ;-) Competition in the market..bite your tongue. Paula/IN/USA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
(Which led to one corrupt and/or dunderheaded council member in to pronounce that competition doesn't work a whole *3 months* (!) after Verizon was granted permission to compete, because Verizon only managed to wire a couple thousand homes in that time.) Are the Council critters required to file FPPC (Fair Political Practices Commission) statements (or anything) showing campaign contributions? If so, go through 'em (yeah, I know, it can take a good deal of time) but you might find some information the local newspaper (or blog) might find interesting. Larry * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Note that if they can gat away with that, they can do anything else they please. Next they will be sending you a list of approved partner websites where traffic won't be counted against your bandwith cap. Only option I see is local: getting the neighbors together to let the local pols know that Comcast is reneging on its charter commitments and its charter should be voided. Let a more honest company take over its operations. Comcast will argue that Federal regs preempt local control. I couldn't agree more, Tom. But getting MY neighbors to join in an effort to fight Comcast is an exercise in futility. I live in Big Business country and with the exception of maybe 2 other people in a neighborhood of over 100 families, I am vastly outnumbered. Signs I put in my yard just asking for the protection of Habeas Corpus, no political signs, are stolen immediately. The one neighbor I am in touch with who would agree that this (comcast's edict) is wrong would tell me he is afraid to draw attention to himself. I live amongst sheep and wolves. Does anyone know what Verizon's policy is regarding bandwidth? Do they also restrict it? I could go back to their slower service over the phone lines if Comcast kicks me off. Paula/IN/USA Continuity of Government: a nice way to say Martial Law so the sheep don't get scared. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Does anyone know what Verizon's policy is regarding bandwidth? Do they also restrict it? I could go back to their slower service over the phone lines if Comcast kicks me off. From an engineering point of view, I think there would be little incentive to cap FIOS because it does not have the same flaws as cable provided broadband. Of course they still could apply caps as a means of charging extra for something that costs them almost zero. Evil has no bounds. We had the cable vs DSL/fiber discussion here a few months ago and our cable fan bois insisted that cable provided broadband was not technically flawed and severely bandwidth limited. We now see that cable can not carry the load. Of necessity, as more people sign up for cable provided broadband, the caps will get lower and lower and lower. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
On Sep 16, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Paula Minor wrote: Does anyone know what Verizon's policy is regarding bandwidth? Do they also restrict it? I could go back to their slower service over the phone lines if Comcast kicks me off. How would a Comcast subscriber know when that usage limit has come close to being exceeded? Does Comcast provide subscribers with notifications about how much or how little usage they have left before being kicked off? Is it the subscribers duty to keep tabs on all their bandwidth usage? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
I live in Big Business country and with the exception of maybe 2 other people in a neighborhood of over 100 families, I am vastly outnumbered. The world is full of people who are not paying attention or with ideologically clouded minds. Ironically, your Big Business neighbors will probably be among the first sheep to be shorn. And, alas, you along with the rest of the herd. So sad that the best we can hope to achieve is an oligopoly. We have just about arrived at a state like Terry Gilliam depicted in Brazil. You need something like its renegade heating engineer to help you conquer the malfunctioning technology. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
How would a Comcast subscriber know when that usage limit has come close to being exceeded? Does Comcast provide subscribers with notifications about how much or how little usage they have left before being kicked off? Is it the subscribers duty to keep tabs on all their bandwidth usage? They let you know at sentencing. This reminds me of a story by Franz Kafka * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Who knows which came first, but the scmucks at the local level bought into the flawed idea that only way anyone could get cable is if they gave the cableco a monpoly to recoup the costs of laying the cable. The infrastructure has long been installed and costs long ago recovered, but even now, as in the case in Monkey County MD, you can sell cable services only if the powers that be magnanimously deign to allow you to do so, as was the case with Verizon. That was realistically true back in 1970. But as recently covered in our RAID discussion, times change, technology advances, and behavior should change accordingly. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
That was realistically true back in 1970. But as recently covered in our RAID discussion, times change, technology advances, and behavior should change accordingly. Except that ther powers that be thinking hasn't changed. If you have to ask for permission to compete then you don't have a free market and you shouldn't be too surprised with the results. Maybe you should be expecting more from your legislators instead of trying to micromanange an industry so that the results are just right. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Maybe your cable can't, Cox out here has more then enough. Limiting bandwith has nothing to do with ability to serve. More people on cable does not mean less bandwith. On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We had the cable vs DSL/fiber discussion here a few months ago and our cable fan bois insisted that cable provided broadband was not technically flawed and severely bandwidth limited. We now see that cable can not carry the load. Of necessity, as more people sign up for cable provided broadband, the caps will get lower and lower and lower. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Maybe you should be expecting more from your legislators instead of trying to micromanange an industry so that the results are just right. Is pursuing a murderer or a thief micromananging? How about those meddlers in the fire department? Should we not let fires rage free? Why should an evil monopolist be allowed to ravage the country just because they are a corporation? Where in your holy book is it written that corporations get a pass? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We got out notification email today from Comcast telling us that we will be restricted to 250 gb /mo bandwidth usage beginning Oct. 1. It doesn't say what they'll do if we go over. Only option I see is local: getting the neighbors together to let the local pols know that Comcast is reneging on its charter commitments and its charter should be voided. Let a more honest company take over its operations. I wonder what would happen if a significant percentage of the subscribers went over one month? I'm guessing that they couldn't afford to lose that much business. Comcast will argue that Federal regs preempt local control. Aren't public utilities such as cable companies granted a limited time to the right to the exclusive franchise? -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Maybe your cable can't, Cox out here has more then enough. Limiting bandwith has nothing to do with ability to serve. True. But it has everything to do with justifying charging more for a service. More people on cable does not mean less bandwith. But, more people on cable means more profits! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
It is my understanding that the local municipality negotiates contracts with the cable companies and they have to meet specific goals and or marks to keep the franchise. I know locally Charter just about lost their franchise when the local municipality had their accounts audited and it turned out Charter had shorted them a number of years in a row, plus there were some other marks that had not been met, plus local unhappiness with Charter. Local municipalities hold the franchise in their hands and if enough local pressure is applied they can get terms changed and/or companies changed. It all depends on how the franchise agreement is written. Like locally all non profits must pay to have any of their activities advertised on the local access channel. Most of the municipalities in our area do not charge non-profits to advertise, but then again they are not Charter. Stewart At 05:48 PM 9/16/2008, you wrote: Aren't public utilities such as cable companies granted a limited time to the right to the exclusive franchise? -- John Duncan Yoyo Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
I believe you're correct - the local municipality can hold Comcast (or the cable provider to their contract and wield power over them with it) accountable for the TV portion of the service. The internet service is something outside a city's purview. However, someone in the municipality can inquire about the service and when they do, the cable company (in this particular case, Comcast) gets very interested very fast. After months of intermittent internet service from Comcast, 1 phone call to the City Manager's Office earned me an apologetic phone call from Comcast Government Affairs and 2 trucks in my neighborhood looking and finding! the cause of the problem. -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rev. Stewart Marshall Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 4:04 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes It is my understanding that the local municipality negotiates contracts with the cable companies and they have to meet specific goals and or marks to keep the franchise. I know locally Charter just about lost their franchise when the local municipality had their accounts audited and it turned out Charter had shorted them a number of years in a row, plus there were some other marks that had not been met, plus local unhappiness with Charter. Local municipalities hold the franchise in their hands and if enough local pressure is applied they can get terms changed and/or companies changed. It all depends on how the franchise agreement is written. Like locally all non profits must pay to have any of their activities advertised on the local access channel. Most of the municipalities in our area do not charge non-profits to advertise, but then again they are not Charter. Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Maybe you should be expecting more from your legislators instead of trying to micromanange an industry so that the results are just right. Is pursuing a murderer or a thief micromananging? In and of itself no. But should the legislators be pursuing a murderer or a thief? But legislators want everyone to know they're tough on crime so they pass get tough on crime laws to show they're tough on crime. One problem is many of those laws tie judges hands and force them to enact sentences harsher than deserved. When you get into an election year, then it gets really fun. How about those meddlers in the fire department? Should we not let fires rage free? I recall there was some debate that the best way to prevent those massive wild fires in remote areas was to let nature run its course and not put the fires out when they happen. Why should an evil monopolist be allowed to ravage the country just because they are a corporation? I thought MS was the only evil monopolist ever talked about here. I know you don't like Windows but I hardly see it as ravaging the country. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Does anyone know what Verizon's policy is regarding bandwidth? Do they also restrict it? I could go back to their slower service over the phone lines if Comcast kicks me off. From an engineering point of view, I think there would be little incentive to cap FIOS because it does not have the same flaws as cable provided broadband. Of course they still could apply caps as a means of charging extra for something that costs them almost zero. Evil has no bounds. Unfortunately, FIOS isn't available at my home tho it IS just 3/4 mile away! When I temporarily tried the Verizon DSL the technician couldn't believe we didn't have it but we don't. It's CONcast for high speed or nothing. We had the cable vs DSL/fiber discussion here a few months ago and our cable fan bois insisted that cable provided broadband was not technically flawed and severely bandwidth limited. We now see that cable can not carry the load. My download speed last night varied from 4874 kb/sec to 8676 kb/sec. It used to be a lot faster. Of necessity, as more people sign up for cable provided broadband, the caps will get lower and lower and lower. I'm afraid you are right about that. Paula/IN/USA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
So, I wrote to Comcast today to let them know that this LONG time Comcast customer was going to have serious issues with their bandwidth limit because I would be backing up many hundreds of GB's of data to an online service and that was perfectly legal to do. Was I going to be 'punished' by being banned for a year if I exceeded the limit several months in a row while I was backing up? Here is the answer I got from themand it was patently obvious he wasn't answering my question/concerns at all. And , yes, I have responded to them. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Web Form Submission: General Inquiry (KMM3291V93103L0KM) Date: September 16, 2008 3:25:39 PM EDT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Paula, Thank you for your message concerning the Comcast High-Speed Internet service. My name is Jordea, I will be glad to assist you today. We maintain an Acceptable Use Policy as part of our high-speed Internet service. The policy describes what constitutes unacceptable conduct and use of the service, including requirements regarding data usage. We?ve had our Acceptable Use policy in place for years and the policy itself remains the same. The only thing that is changing is now we?re going to provide a specific number (250 GB) for what would qualify as excessive use. We?ve been evaluating a monthly data usage threshold for quite some time and we?ve heard from customers that they would like us to provide a specific number for excessive use. Excessive users consume substantially more data than typical residential users?only less than 1% of customers use excessive amount of data today. It?s important to keep in mind that that the vast majority of customers don?t fall into the excessive use category. To learn more about excessive use, you can go to our FAQs page at http://help.comcast.net/content/faq/Frequently- Asked-Questions-about-Excessive-Use The 250 GB monthly threshold will begin October 1, 2008. You will continue to get the same amount of speed you?ve been getting. Keep in mind that only a very small number of customers actually reach 250 GB in a month today. As part of our pre-existing policy, we will continue to contact the top users of our high-speed Internet service and ask them to curb their usage. A typical residential high-speed Internet user doesn?t even come close to using that amount of data. To put it in perspective, currently, the median data usage by our high-speed customers is approximately 2 - 3 GB each month. 250 GB falls more into the excessive use category?going well above and beyond typical Internet usage. To reach 250 GB in a month, for example, a customer would have to do any of the following: Send 50 million emails (at 0.05 KB/email) Download 62,500 songs (at 4MB/song) Download 125 standard-definition movies (at 2 GB/movie) Upload 25,000 hi-resolution digital photos (at 10 MB/photo) There are a number of online tools you can use to measure your data consumption. You can find such tools by simply doing a Web search ? for example, you can search ?bandwidth meter? to locate some options. If you use multiple computers in your home, you should make sure to measure and combine their monthly data usage to get an accurate read of total data consumption for your entire account. Thank you for choosing Comcast. We value your business. Sincerely, Jordea Comcast Online Customer Support Paula/IN/USA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
How would a Comcast subscriber know when that usage limit has come close to being exceeded? Does Comcast provide subscribers with notifications about how much or how little usage they have left before being kicked off? Is it the subscribers duty to keep tabs on all their bandwidth usage? No, they do not let you know. In the post I sent a bit earlier with the response from CONcast, it tells me that I can do a search online to find my own software for monitoring my own bandwidth usage and that I'll have to do it for every computer in the house and add them up myself. THAT is not their problem. Paula/IN/USA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Very nice Cut and Paste response that doesn't even being to address anything you've asked. For fun, check with your local City Manager's Office and voice your concerns to them. Explain you're just trying to backup tax records, photos of your kids and other things you don't want to lose in case of a fire. Try to find something personal that will get them to hear you as a concerned resident - that always helps. Whatever you do, don't yell or belittle them but appeal to them for help. They might just call Comcast. It might do some good, but it might also be a waste of time... Could be a fun experiment. -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paula Minor Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 4:48 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes So, I wrote to Comcast today to let them know that this LONG time Comcast customer was going to have serious issues with their bandwidth limit because I would be backing up many hundreds of GB's of data to an online service and that was perfectly legal to do. Was I going to be 'punished' by being banned for a year if I exceeded the limit several months in a row while I was backing up? Here is the answer I got from themand it was patently obvious he wasn't answering my question/concerns at all. And , yes, I have responded to them. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: Web Form Submission: General Inquiry (KMM3291V93103L0KM) Date: September 16, 2008 3:25:39 PM EDT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Paula, Thank you for your message concerning the Comcast High-Speed Internet service. My name is Jordea, I will be glad to assist you today. We maintain an Acceptable Use Policy as part of our high-speed Internet service. The policy describes what constitutes unacceptable conduct and use of the service, including requirements regarding data usage. We?ve had our Acceptable Use policy in place for years and the policy itself remains the same. The only thing that is changing is now we?re going to provide a specific number (250 GB) for what would qualify as excessive use. We?ve been evaluating a monthly data usage threshold for quite some time and we?ve heard from customers that they would like us to provide a specific number for excessive use. Excessive users consume substantially more data than typical residential users?only less than 1% of customers use excessive amount of data today. It?s important to keep in mind that that the vast majority of customers don?t fall into the excessive use category. To learn more about excessive use, you can go to our FAQs page at http://help.comcast.net/content/faq/Frequently- Asked-Questions-about-Excessive-Use The 250 GB monthly threshold will begin October 1, 2008. You will continue to get the same amount of speed you?ve been getting. Keep in mind that only a very small number of customers actually reach 250 GB in a month today. As part of our pre-existing policy, we will continue to contact the top users of our high-speed Internet service and ask them to curb their usage. A typical residential high-speed Internet user doesn?t even come close to using that amount of data. To put it in perspective, currently, the median data usage by our high-speed customers is approximately 2 - 3 GB each month. 250 GB falls more into the excessive use category?going well above and beyond typical Internet usage. To reach 250 GB in a month, for example, a customer would have to do any of the following: Send 50 million emails (at 0.05 KB/email) Download 62,500 songs (at 4MB/song) Download 125 standard-definition movies (at 2 GB/movie) Upload 25,000 hi-resolution digital photos (at 10 MB/photo) There are a number of online tools you can use to measure your data consumption. You can find such tools by simply doing a Web search ? for example, you can search ?bandwidth meter? to locate some options. If you use multiple computers in your home, you should make sure to measure and combine their monthly data usage to get an accurate read of total data consumption for your entire account. Thank you for choosing Comcast. We value your business. Sincerely, Jordea Comcast Online Customer Support Paula/IN/USA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
On Sep 16, 2008, at 5:00 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: Except that ther powers that be thinking hasn't changed. If you have to ask for permission to compete then you don't have a free market and you shouldn't be too surprised with the results. While I can perceive logic in your argument, the fact is that the corporation that holds an exclusive agreement within a jurisdiction to provide a certain service will fight tooth and nail to retain that exclusive arrangement. Once they become King of the Mountain, most companies will make every attempt to prevent any challenge to their exclusive arrangement. Corporations in such a position have no interest in free market principles. The free market is for wannabes. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Yes and no FCC did change some of the rules and many cable companies are just waiting at the door for a municipality to get upset and go looking for a new provider. Just south of us is a municipality with 50-75K inhabitants. I believe they have a choice between 3 different Cable operators. This also allows them the choice of three VOIP providers. One was a local Internet company that got bought out by Knology. In some areas competition enhances and helps the residents get better service and better variety. Stewart At 07:08 PM 9/16/2008, you wrote: While I can perceive logic in your argument, the fact is that the corporation that holds an exclusive agreement within a jurisdiction to provide a certain service will fight tooth and nail to retain that exclusive arrangement. Once they become King of the Mountain, most companies will make every attempt to prevent any challenge to their exclusive arrangement. Corporations in such a position have no interest in free market principles. The free market is for wannabes. Steve Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
On Sep 16, 2008, at 7:03 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: It is my understanding that the local municipality negotiates contracts with the cable companies and they have to meet specific goals and or marks to keep the franchise. Not so. In the county where I live, the authorized cable provider has consistently, from the very beginning, failed to meet numerous benchmarks and goals, thus violating the terms of their contract, and they get poor marks from many of their subscribers that often result in official complaints being filed with Consumer Affairs. In fact, the county had to create an office purely for cable complaints. The cable provider's contract with the county has never been seriously threatened despite these oft repeated failures. The reason they have not been so punished? It would be far too troublesome to introduce a new provider while simultaneously retaining full service for current cable customers. Additionally, it may also be too expensive these days for anyone to install a new cable system while at the same time keeping the rates being charged customers from increasing. In other words, it would just be a lot of hassle. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
At 08:05 PM 9/16/2008, you wrote: Date:Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:48:30 -0400 From:John Duncan Yoyo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Comcast puts on the brakes I wonder what would happen if a significant percentage of the subscribers went over one month? I'm guessing that they couldn't afford to lose that much business. Has anyone figured out; when Comcast turns off your internet access for excessive use, does that mean you still have to pay them for internet service? Or would that fee now be considered a fine or penalty.. Sound to me that some fantail lawyer will break that up and make them refund your internet charges for any month that you can't use the service.. Not a sermon, just a thought.. rich * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
The cable provider's contract with the county has never been seriously threatened despite these oft repeated failures. The reason they have not been so punished? It would be far too troublesome to introduce a new provider while simultaneously retaining full service for current cable customers. Additionally, it may also be too expensive these days for anyone to install a new cable system while at the same time keeping the rates being charged customers from increasing. In other words, it would just be a lot of hassle. We had that situation here in DC too. As of Jan 1 we will have a second provider: FIOS. It would be great to have somebody show up with WiMax too. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Sound to me that some fantail lawyer will break that up and make them refund your internet charges for any month that you can't use the service.. If Comcast is a regulated public utility and you pay your bills do they really have the right to cut off your service for any other reason? Can the power company shut you off for using too much electricity? Even if you don't pay your bill they have to go through a long process before cutting you off. I guess the water company could fine you if you use too much during a drought, but I doubt they would be able to shut you off even then. A big fat class action against Comcast would be a wonderful thing. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
I live in Big Business country and with the exception of maybe 2 other people in a neighborhood of over 100 families, I am vastly outnumbered. The world is full of people who are not paying attention or with ideologically clouded minds. Ironically, your Big Business neighbors will probably be among the first sheep to be shorn. And, alas, you along with the rest of the herd. So sad that the best we can hope to achieve is an oligopoly. We have just about arrived at a state like Terry Gilliam depicted in Brazil. You need something like its renegade heating engineer to help you conquer the malfunctioning technology. We're long past Brazil. This has to be Idiocracy. Why else would people be so hypnotized by a world of faux news, faux everything. So, it's sophomoric. That's the point. Drink the green stuff. Then thank Comcast, et al, for overcharging us. Yes, sir. Thank you sir. Hit us again! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Comcast puts on the brakes
Your broadband speed on cable will slow down as more people use it. Cable is like a party line on telephones 50 years ago. We have basic slow broadband, but it's as cheap or cheaper than dialup. Verizon gives that choice, if you catch the deal on the right day. It still sucks, just not as much as dialup. The United States keeps getting further behind other countries that act like broadband is important to their economies--it is. Broadband companies are suffering from old ways of thinking. They can't/won't solve problems that aren't particularly complicated because it will cut into the profits that monopolies have allowed and enabled. They needed monopolies to develop the networks, but that system was supposed to expire--just not where I live, and not where Paula lives either. It's the last few miles that are most expensive once the main grid is laid out. Cable vs. FIOS? It makes sense to make the rest wireless, or pooling resources to make the neighborhood the client instead individual homeowners. Your entire community can have faster, cheaper broadband by acting together and contracting to have a neighborhood network. It's been done in Virginia near Reston. The city of Lafayette, Louisiana is dealing with what happens when free markets end up not wanting to serve them at all, but they're finally getting municipal broadband. The broadband companies have lobbyists to prevent free markets from cutting into their profits. Those same companies back things like Consumer Choice for Television Act in Louisiana and Georgia that strips municipal and parish governments from negotiating their own cable franchise agreements and gives that power to the Secretary of State who's already in the pocket of the corporations. Next thing the same kind of phony deregulation legislation will show up in other states like Indiana or Virginia, or nationally. What kind of nonsense is it when companies lie to us about the high cost of a product that is demonstrably cheaper to produce than even a year ago! We're quibbling about 2Mb, 6Mb, 10Mb service while they're testing 1Gb service in Amsterdam and in Sweden! It's only preliminary tests, but that's to improve service that's already faster than what we have here--and not limited by Gb or BS. BTW, Comcast sends threatening letters to customers who use the unlimited service they contracted to receive, but doesn't tell them how much they've used until it they exceed the limit, whatever that means. Does anyone know what Verizon's policy is regarding bandwidth? Do they also restrict it? I could go back to their slower service over the phone lines if Comcast kicks me off. From an engineering point of view, I think there would be little incentive to cap FIOS because it does not have the same flaws as cable provided broadband. Of course they still could apply caps as a means of charging extra for something that costs them almost zero. Evil has no bounds. Unfortunately, FIOS isn't available at my home tho it IS just 3/4 mile away! When I temporarily tried the Verizon DSL the technician couldn't believe we didn't have it but we don't. It's CONcast for high speed or nothing. We had the cable vs DSL/fiber discussion here a few months ago and our cable fan bois insisted that cable provided broadband was not technically flawed and severely bandwidth limited. We now see that cable can not carry the load. My download speed last night varied from 4874 kb/sec to 8676 kb/sec. It used to be a lot faster. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
