[CTRL] House Bill: "A Republic - Not A Democracy"

[BB]

Ron Paul is one of the very few patriots left in Congress,
Let's support his legislation and let our congressmen know we want
them to support Ron Paul.  Did any of you watch
the debates or speeches for or against MFN for China, Dana Rohrbacher
was leading the pack to turn down MFN for China, and
he did great until he said we are fighting for this democracy, they
don't even know we live in a Republic, and that is on
purpose, so that all people in the U.S. will come to forget we live in
a
Republic, and as we loose our freedoms one by one, no
one will notice, and all will be fine, when the UN takes over without
firing one shot!  We must fight for this Republic
and the freedoms guaranteed us in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights!
Please pass this on to all of your e-mail friends.
 Yours in Liberty & Reform Virginia Brooks
 
Congressional Legislation
 
A Republic; not a Democracy
Bill # H.CON.RES.48
 
Original Sponsor:
Ron Paul (R-TX 14th)
 
Sponsor/Cosponsor Total: 6
(last sponsor added 06/19/2001)
  6 Republicans
 
About This Legislation:
The United States is not a democracy. The U.S. is a constitutionally
limited republic and it must remain a republic if we are
to remain free. Yet few Americans understand the critical
distinction between these two incompatible forms of government.
Democracy gives the majority power to destroy your liberty
and your property. Our national constitution, by contrast,
expressly protects your liberty and your property.
Politicians and the media bombard us with the message
that America is a democracy. They attempt to equate the "will of the
people" or "popular support" with political and legal
legitimacy. The underlying message is clear: democracy is noble, the
Constitution is irrelevant.
 
Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy.
The Constitution guarantees a republican form of government; the
word "democracy" does not appear. Its authors knew that
majority fervor would threaten freedom, so they created a republic
designed to strictly limit the size and scope of government.
Accordingly, the Constitution is replete with undemocratic
mechanisms. Obvious examples are the First Amendment
and the electoral college system.
 
H.Con.Res. 48 calls for Congress to reaffirm our nation's
status as a constitutional republic. It also voices opposition to
recent calls for the abolition of the electoral college
system. Support for H.Con.Res. 48 sends a strong message that liberty is
more important than shifting majority sentiment, and
that our constitutional republic is incompatible with majority tyranny.
 
Taken from: http://capwiz.com/liberty/issues/bills/?bill=29969

Re: [CTRL] I have a friend who wants to join this list; profile isbelow

[BB]

What the Hell
 
 
 
Don Daniels wrote:
Screenname:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

Re: [CTRL] [OT] Report: President Bush Has Lowest IQofallPresidentsofPast 50...

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

That's fine. Discuss it forever.  Maybe by endless complaining about the
outcome, and the facts of the election itself, it will somehow change.

It just seems to be the same as fighting the Civil War all over again.



"Samantha L." wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> If 8 months or less is the acceptable shelf-life around here, then we are
> limited severely in what we are free to discuss.
>

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[CTRL] [Fwd: Boeing 747-400 Used In Anti-Gun Advertisement]

[BB]

{Please forward to relevant lists and forums}

Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 23:52:41 -0700
To: Matthew Gaylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "E.J. Totty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: We need to answer the "Brady Campaign".

Matt,
Please give this as wide a dissemination as you can.
Thank you in advance.

ET

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: "E.J. Totty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Boeing Company corporate image.
Cc: Steven Kendrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To Whom it may concern,

The following website is using outline images of the Boeing 747-400
in its advertising:

http://www.bradycampaign.org/activism/heston/movie.asp

I would like to know whether the Boeing Company explicitly approves
of these images, or if they were used without The Boeing Company's
permission.

I would also like to know if The Boeing Company approves of the
message being delivered as well.

As an employee of The Boeing Company, I find it ethically repugnant
that such image utilization is used to convey what is known as a
deceitful and corrupt depiction. That such a message is allowed to be
carried on the Boeing image is despicable. Everyday we are reminded
of the idea of integrity, intellectual honesty, and pride in the
company's working relationship with the rest of the world. If this
matter is allowed to go unchallenged, it will severely tarnish the
company's image.

Most respectfully,

E.J. Totty

--
In Liberty,
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"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything."
Mark Twain

"Hell, I've got no memory at all, I can't ever lie."
Dan Albrecht, Lark in The Morning, suppliers of all things Bagpipes, and
a whole lot more. If it's music, we have it, or we can get it (or else!).
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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ET

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[CTRL] [Fwd: What Johnny learns at school]

[BB]

[Note:  Judge Robert Bork in wrote, in Slouching Toward Gomorrah,  "Now,
however, the educational system has become the weapon of choice for modern
liberals in their project of dismantling American culture."  This use of
schools in the dismantling of our culture began with the very beginnings of
our communist style collectivist system of education, with Horace Mann, and
the creation of teacher colleges.  In recent decades the intensity of the
attack has been multiplied.  Listen to what those who educate our teachers
have to say:  "Formal education carried on subversively, can be in the
forefront of building a new moral order...  it provides some measure of the
physical and social isolation necessary for the incubation process."
(Roberta T. Ash; "Durkheim's Moral Education Reconsidered: Toward the
Creation of a Counterculture".  In SCHOOL REVIEW, November, 1971, p. 132) -
"... our efforts as educators must not be directed to restoring the past
order of morality but to participating in creating a new one... when it is
shed there will be a new moral order to take it's place...  a
counterculture that will burst through the surface." (Roberta T. Ash;
"Durkheim's Moral Education Reconsidered: Toward the Creation of a
Counterculture".  In SCHOOL REVIEW, November, 1971, p. 112) - "teachers
who conform to the traditional institutional mode are out of place.  They
might find fulfillment as tap-dance instructors, or guards in maximum
security prisons or proprietors of reducing salons, or agents of the
Federal Bureau of Investigation - - but they damage teaching, children, and
themselves by staying in the classroom."  (NEA book, Schools For the 70's
And Beyond).  Just what does our "modern" education system support?
"Education is thus a most powerful ally of humanism and every American
public school is a school of humanism. What can the theistic
Sunday-schools, meeting for an hour once a week, and teaching only a
fraction of the children, do to stem the tide of a five-day program of
humanistic teaching? " -C. F. Potter (a signer of the "Humanist Manifesto")
Humanism, A New  Religion (1930).  The answer I believe, does not lie in
reforming the system, or vouchers (he who takes public money will live
under government rule because of it), or such schemes as that, ideally it
lies in removing your children from the public indoctrination centers,
lacking that we MUST counter the indoctrination, teach your children, take
the time, some time, any time, every day, to teach your children what is
right.  Get them into a good Bible believing and teaching Church.  Here is
a good book that will open your eyes on the subject, one of a number of
good books:  None Dare Call It Education by John A. Stormer, published by
Liberty Bell Press, Florissant, Missouri.  John Stormer short bio states -
..a researcher, writer, school superintendent and pastor.  It is a must
read for all. - Tony]


What Johnny learns at school
Linda Bowles

© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=23665


There was a time, let's call them the good old days, when parents could
send their little children off to school with full confidence they would be
in good hands.

Sadly, the good old days are gone.

It is appropriate that most of the criticism of government schools deals
with academic failure. But that is only half the wretched story. Contrary
to what many parents think, most of those responsible for the education of
our children are not socially and politically neutral. They are ideologues
with an agenda.

While a good case could be made to say we are on the verge of being overrun
by an avalanche of academic ignorance, it would not be accurate to say our
kids are graduating empty headed. Perhaps it's time for another updated
review of some of the important things our children are learning in
government school classrooms.

While Johnny and Jill may not be learning how to read, they are learning
that: teachers are underpaid, God is irrelevant, big business is ruining
the environment, the Bible says driving an SUV is a sin, rewards should be
based on need rather than performance, bisexual individuals are under the
command of unstable genes, the Alamo was a great Mexican victory, society
rather than the individual is responsible for crime, saving the sucker fish
is more important than saving farmers, teachers' pay should be doubled, a
diversity of cultures and languages is America's strength, Thomas Jefferson
was a racist, two plus two equals whatever, competition is destructive, the
right to be wrong makes wrong right, the Boy Scouts are a hate group,
Ronald Reagan is responsible for the disappearance of the dinosaurs, the
Catholic Church is a hate group, defending yourself promotes violence, the
government is the source from which all blessings flow, Southern Baptists
are a hate group, high taxes are good for America, equality is more
important than excellence, carbon dioxide is poisoning the world, cops hate
black people,

Re: [CTRL] [OT] Report: President Bush Has Lowest IQofallPresidentsofPast 50 Years

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Perhaps you are right.

But consider, government IS big business, and big business IS
government, and it has been so for at least 150 years.

They are NOT separate entities. Ever notice, that when a person
leaves a high level government, he slides over to a board seat on
some huge corporation, and when government positions are
recruited, they come from the ranks of large corporations?

BB



Gore would not be in bed with the oil industry to the degree with
Bush/Cheney.

Steve

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[CTRL] Russia's friend China

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

News reports of July 16 tell of a recently signed friendship pact
between Russia and China.

We are assured that "it is not clear what this will mean for the
United States."

Well, the brilliant story writer might not be clear, but I'm pretty
sure
I could figure it out, and I don't think it means more business and
repayments of past loans, grants, aid and investments for us from the
friendly couple.

The same report mentioned that a majority of Russia's weapons output
goes directly to Red China.

Just to remind, these appear to be the SAME RUSSIANS that just a short

few years ago, assured us - along with the U.S. press, that they
NEEDED
our financial help, our food, our technology and our help in
rebuilding
their infrastructure, and they DESERVED it since they made the supreme

sacrifice in abandoning communism and adopted democracy.
They claimed we were their friends and BROTHERS, and were deserving
of all of the aforementioned assistance.

I wonder if the Chinese got the same pitch.

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Re: [CTRL] [OT] Report: President Bush Has Lowest IQ ofallPresidentsofPast 50 Years

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

STOLED?  DUH?  Perhaps you will ponder this:
Your precious press now alleges that SIX MILLION
votes nation wide were improperly counted or discounted.
Could you suppose that ANY of them just might possible
have been cast for non-democrats??

I heard nothing from your side when the entire 18,000
military ballots were challenged from our overseas
personnel.

Let me say this softly, so as not to blast ears  ---
ghwb's Supreme Court (I guess he appointed them all) --
STOLED the FRIGGIN ELECTION?

One can only ask then, what about the REGULAR election?

You're so ignorant that you cannot see that the same agenda
which would have been followed by ag is now being followed
by the inheritor of the father's Supreme Court, gwb.

If you'd be so kind, would you please give an estimate of just how
LONG you are going to whine about an election which took place
8 months ago, and as you might have heard in whatever metropolis
you inhabit, is now over. Six more months?  A year?  Two years?
I'd like to know, so I can ignore your snipings for that length of time.

You lefties have WON, EINSTEIN, and you haven't been able to
figure it out yet!!!

WAKE UP!

And your memory's not too hot either, if you can't remember who
posted an article, even as you snipe a reply to it!!

And YES, you are DUH!   Good signature for you.







MIKE SPITZER wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 10:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] [OT] Report: President Bush Has Lowest IQ of
> allPresidents ofPast 50 Years
>
> On 15 Jul 01, at 23:22, BB wrote:
>
> > >
> > > He won ...Get over it.
> > >
>
> Steve, who was it that wrote the above, I forgot?
>
> Here's what I have to say to whomever it was: Man, if you would have been
> reading the posts regarding the FINAL FINDINGS regarding the FL ballot
> miscounting and theft that has appeared in the main stream media over the
> last several days, ... well, it is beyond me how anyone that has been on
> this list, AND READ THE STUFF POSTED ON IT, could even POSSIBLY have any
> doubt as to who REALLY WON!
>
> Can you read lips, Einstein?
>
> Here, let me speak louder, for the benefit of the hearing impaired:
>
> HE AND HIS DADDY'S SUPREME COURT JUSTICES STOLED THE FRIGGIN ELECTION,
> PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
>
> I mean, DUH!
>
> >
> > So does that mean we should not examine the President critically?
> >
> > Not even a Bush?
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
> 
>  Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT
>
>FROM THE DESK OF:
>
>*Michael Spitzer* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>   The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends
> 
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
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> ==
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> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
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> Om

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Re: [CTRL] [OT] Report: President Bush Has Lowest IQ of all Presidentsof Past 50 Years

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Ah, YES  -- The  Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, Pennsylvania

EVERYONE knows of them  MORE paragons of truth!!






Dale Stonehouse wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> > If late night TV comedy is an indicator, then there has never been as
> > widespread a perception that a president is not
> > intellectually qualified
> > for the position he holds as there is with President GW Bush.
> >
> > In a report published Monday, the Lovenstein Institute of Scranton,
> > Pennsylvania detailed its findings of a four month study of the
> > intelligence quotient of President George W. Bush.
> >
>
> People who found it a good idea to vote for a borderline intellect must like
> the idea of having a president who is as dumb or dumber than they are. This
> is one of the drawbacks of letting everyone vote; they don't have to pick
> the best or smartest candidate. Maybe we need an IQ qualification for the
> right to vote. I think the Third Reich may have considered doing just that.
>
> The image of the USA will suffer during the Bush administration, but the
> American people will survive it, just as we survived other
> less-than-brilliant presidents. And if Nixon is an indication, intellect
> isn't always used to the country's benefit. And the brains of Jimmy Carter
> that we loved so much didn't make him a great leader.
>
> Maybe intellect is overrated.
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
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> ==
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>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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Re: [CTRL] [OT] Report: President Bush Has Lowest IQ ofallPresidentsofPast 50 Years

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

No, it doesn't mean that.
But will "exposing" it, complaining about it, delighting in it
raise his IQ even one point?
Will it help our country one bit?

Rejoice folks,  gw is only doing those things which ag would have.
You've basically won.  Not a Constitutionalist in sight.



Steve wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On 15 Jul 01, at 23:22, BB wrote:
>
> > He won ...Get over it.
>
> So does that mean we should not examine the President critically?
>
> Not even a Bush?
>
> Steve
>
> ANOMALOUS IMAGES
> http://www.anomalous-images.com
>
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> ==
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> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
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Re: [CTRL] [OT] Report: President Bush Has Lowest IQ ofallPresidentsofPast ...

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

And are you going to whine for that same very long, long time?
Is this the first time in history that a President was elected by a
majority of the electoral vote, but not the popular?

If you STILL do not understand the purpose and design of the
Electoral College, and are STILL outraged that a huge mob of
folks all jammed together in one area still did not prevail with their
"block" voting, then we have very little common ground for
a reasonable discussion.

The Electoral College may seem unwieldy NOW, but there was a
definite wise PURPOSE for its design and inclusion in our
Constitution.

Just like the "current wisdom" of the intellectuals and sheeple in 1913,
who decided it ever so much more desirable to have "direct" election
of Senators by the people, it seems clever now to abolish this
so unwieldy and cumbersome Electoral College, not realizing that it was
designed EXACTLY FOR SCENARIOS LIKE THIS ONE PAST.



"Prudence L. Kuhn" wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 07/16/2001 1:22:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << He won ...Get over it. >>
>
> No, he didn't win.  He got over that necessity quite nicely.  He has the
> presidency.  We do have to adjust to the Republican way of taking over the
> country.  Most of us have resigned ourselves to having a Bush Boob in office
> who is making sure that his corporate benefactors get to rape and exploit us.
>  It will take this country a long, long time to get over it.  Prudy
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
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> Om

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==
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always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] [Fwd: What are the Brady's up to now?]

[BB]

>I wonder if someone on our side will come up with a counter to this bit of
>baloney.


Somebody already has. This is the best flash movie of any kind and the
message is awesome. Make sure your volume is on for the full effect.

The Legacy Of Gun Control

http://www.cphv.com/fl_legacy.htm

Doreen



Thanks Doreen!

Tony




[Forwarded For Information Purposes Only - Not
Necessarily Endorsed By The Sender - A.K. Pritchard]

--

A.K. Pritchard
http://www.ideasign.com/chiliast/

To subscribe to  "The Republican"  email list - just ask!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


""The constitutions of most of our States assert that
all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right
and duty to be at all times armed;..."

Thomas Jefferson letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5,
1824.

Re: [CTRL] [OT] Report: President Bush Has Lowest IQ of allPresidents ofPast 50 Years

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

He won ...Get over it.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] New York Times says Florida accepted flawed overseasballots

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Yup - the NYT - no bias there..



>
>
> New York Times says Florida accepted flawed overseas ballots
>
> The Associated Press
>

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] AP: NYT says Florida accepted flawed overseas ballots

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Ah, yes - that paragon of virtue and publishers of all truth ---

The NYT

THEY said .

News flash--  gore lost.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] [Fwd: Stop Bill Clinton and the UN!]

[BB]

Could things get any worse?  Will we EVER be rid of this guy?
I cannot IMAGINE that we will EVER see the last effects
of this communist that was once our President.
We need to act on this or forever live with the results.
Charlene
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message -
From: "Mountain States Legal Foundation"
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 10:33 AM
Subject: Stop Bill Clinton and the UN!


TREACHEROUS CLINTON REPORT CREATES CRISIS

OVER SUPREMACY: U.S. CONSTITUTION OR U.N. TREATY?

Just when you thought you had heard the last of Bill
Clinton.  Just when you thought you had heard the last of
his treachery and his secret attempts to circumvent the
Constitution and the rule of law.  Just when you thought you
had heard the last of the way he insults the United States
and its most revered institutions when he is on foreign
soil.

Now comes shocking news from the United Nations!  New
information from Geneva, Switzerland reveals that Bill
Clinton filed a stealth report with the United Nations to
circumvent the U.S. Supreme Court.  As a result, that
Clinton Report could cause an unprecedented constitutional
crisis when some claim that U.N. Treaty obligations trump
U.S. Constitution provisions.

In 1995, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled, in Adarand
Constructors, Inc. v. Peña, that Congress may not
willy-nilly use racial quotas and preferences: "We are one
race here; it is American!"  Experts say the ruling means an
end to racial quotas and the dawn of the dream of a
color-blind Constitution.

Clinton was furious with that ruling.  So furious, he vowed
he would "not end" racial quotas and preferences.  In fact,
he sent one of his top officials to tell the Senate that he
would not obey the Supreme Court until it issued a second
ruling!  Can you imagine the arrogance of that testimony?

Millions of Americans, including judges, knew Clinton and
his lawyers were stonewalling the Supreme Court.  Three
judges at a federal appellate court fumed:  "[T]he integrity
of the judicial process has been compromised [because
Clinton's] United States Attorney [has been forced to
choose] between allegiance to politics and service to the
court..  The uncomfortable sense that the rule of law was
sacrificed to politics is all but escapable."

But stonewalling the federal judiciary was not the only way
Clinton was fighting to save racial quotas and preferences.
While his first way was bold and brazen, his second way was
sly and sneaky.  And it was classic Clinton; after all,
Clinton quibbled over the definitions of "is," "alone," and
"false."

In 1994, the U.S. Senate ratified a treaty called the
International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of
Racial Discrimination (ICERD).

The Treaty did just what it said; it barred each and every
form of racial discrimination.  No quotas, no preferences,
no type of racial discrimination!

Clinton saw an opening.  While the American people were
watching the close presidential election of 2000, the
Clinton Report was submitted to the United Nations.  As
interpreted by the Clinton Report, the racial quotas and
preferences that had been barred by the Treaty not only
would be permitted, they would be required!  The Clinton
Report turned the Treaty on its head!

That's not all.  In the Clinton Report, Clinton impugned
the Supreme Court, openly attacking its recent decisions.
It was bad enough that Clinton stonewalled the Court.  Now,
before foreign nations, he openly assailed it!

It gets worse.  Because the Constitution places treaties on
a par with the Constitution, the Treaty, as interpreted by
the Clinton Report, could place the Treaty in direct
conflict with the rulings of the Supreme Court.  Imagine
that, the United Nations would be telling the United States
that on matters of racial quotas and preferences, the
ultimate authority is not the Constitution, as interpreted
by the U.S. Supreme Court, but a Treaty, as interpreted by
Clinton and as enforced by the U.N.  This could cause a
constitutional crisis unlike any in our history, especially
since it involves the volatile issue of race!

If you don't think the United Nations would foment such a
crisis, consider two things.  First, the unceremonious way
the U.S. was dumped from the U.N. Human Rights Commission
after European "allies" assured the U.S. that they would
vote to keep the U.S. on the panel.  Second, the ungracious
way President George W. Bush was received on his June visit
to Europe; one writer described it as "a European orgy of
anti-Americanism [and] Yankee-bashing . not seen since the
days of Ronald Reagan."

Can it get any worse?  Yes!  Remarkably, the very Clinton
official who gave the Clinton Report to the U.N. is still
our representative on the Treaty.  That's not all.  She has
assembled a powerful team of non-governmental organizations
(NGOs) that favor racial quotas and preferences to help her
lobby for approval of the Clinton Report.  Worst yet, she
will argue f

Re: [CTRL] Who Cares What You Think?

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Yup, sounds absolutely true to me  he said, she said 







Steve wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Who Cares What You Think?
> From Ariel Ky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>7-12-1
>
>

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] NM: Condit Girlfriend Saw Evidence of SadomasochisticSex

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Yes - surely - kill the messenger.
The witness is NOW a possible suspect.

The same as a young white house intern stalking a president,
and her subsequent behavior
being simply a youthful indiscretion - the poor dear was confused

But the woman who documented and reported the idiotic behavior
was vilified, prosecuted and subjected to public ridicule -
it was HER fault, if only she hadn't told
anyone what she heard and knew.


You people have a most interesting view of the law, and justice.


MfzzglrJrwnzdBlthrskt


__


YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] [Fwd: WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO SAFEGUARD AMERICA'S FREEDOM?]

[BB]

Title: Blank



 
 
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body   
of people always possess arms..."
 -- Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters
from the Federal Farmer 53 (1788)
 


  
  

  

  

  


  
  
Letter From A South
African Gun OwnerJune
2001
by Pierre van der WaltSubmitted by a friend of
hisAlso published in OffGuard
Magazine
Dear American Hunter,My name is Pierre
van der Walt; my homeland is South Africa.
I am from Afrikaner stock.
Since 1985 when the gun grabbing started in our country, I have been
intimately involved in the pro gun cause. I have served and still
serve on many of the associations leading our struggle. In the past
I have practiced law, and served in our national defense force in
Armored Infantry and Military Intelligence Corp, eventually
attaining the rank of captain and Unit S-1.
I come to you today at the
request of my dear friend Bradley Rolston, an excellent Professional
Hunter and pro gunner to the core. Last year Bradley hunted with one
of your Washington Arms Collector members, Mack Wilcox, and they
became friends, as always happens with people meeting
Bradley.
As sportsmen and hunters,
Bradley and Mack had much in common, foremost, their concern over
the continuing encroachment of our right to bear arms which extends
into the whole issue of all civil rights. Mack’s wife suggested that
a letter from the South African gun owners to the gun owners of
America might be appropriate at this time. I trust you are aware the
weekend of July 7th, 2001 will kick off the UN’s meeting
on small arms. It is their desire to disarm citizens worldwide! I
know that as I personally attended their West African meetings in
Accra, Ghana, as an observer.
I would like to tell you
some of what took place in our country and hope that you will
recognize on a personal level the danger that threatens you and your
countrymen, and the heartbreak that lies ahead, if you fail to
resist.
When Africa was truly dark,
the law of the jungle naturally prevailed. From a socio-political
perspective it mostly meant that the king with the largest army held
life and death in his palms. Later the Arabs came with their
guns.
In 1652, the first white
colonials permanently settled the southernmost tip of Africa. They
came with their guns and their traditional right to keep and bear
them, much as it was in your country.
One of the first things the
settlers did to ensure domination and supremacy was to impose a ban
on the possession of firearms by indigenous peoples (the blacks). It
is not coincidental that this ban resulted in the colonial
subjugation of the indigenous peoples until the twentieth century.
Indigenous peoples then began armed revolts and national liberation
followed. Those who had been suppressed for centuries used firearms
to ensure that the political will of the masses prevailed in the
absence of democracy. Democracy was instilled through the barrel of
the gun. Apartheid came to a formal end in 1994.
As a result of the so-called
‘armed struggle’, amongst other things, South Africa experienced its
second national liberation. The liberation was not the sole result
of the armed struggle, as the fight for freedom had been fought on
many fronts, but it was crucial. The threats of democratic will
being enforced violently caused the elite to bow to democracy. It is
an irresistible force that you as Americans must never loose sight
of as protectorate of the world’s freedom. You are the last front of
the ‘armed struggle’ – the struggle not for national liberation, but
for the preservation of personal freedom.
National liberation has
rarely equated in advances of personal freedom. For once look
outside America to evaluate my words. THEN OPEN YOUR EYES TO YOUR
OWN PREDICAMENT!
I want you to think for a
moment. As the twentieth century aged, the political cry for
increased freedoms became the rallying cry for political correctness
and liberty. The plight and rights of the individual were seemingly
put on the forefront. The so-called flag bearers of these rights and
 

[CTRL] [Fwd: A tale of tragic irony]

[BB]

Friends,

Many of us have known all along that the crazy people who support the 
unconstitutional position of controlling our guns were a couple of fries 
short of a Happy Meal. This helps prove it.

Jim Hardin

The Freedom Page
http://www.freedompage.ws
To receive Freedom Page mail, put "Subscribe"
as subject to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To be removed, put "Remove" as subject.

Alabama Committee To Get Us Out of the UN
http://themustardseed.home.mindspring.com


From: The Republican <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: A tale of tragic irony

A tale of tragic irony

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=23518

© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com


Barbara Graham was sentenced to 10 years to life for shooting and
paralyzing an innocent 23-year-old man she blamed for killing her
19-year-old son.

That's a triple tragedy, for Graham is a 49-year-old mother who has now
been removed from her other children.

It's also ironic beyond words because Barbara Graham is an active member of
a Maryland group that helped organize the Million Mom March against
firearms last year in Washington.

Let me repeat that: Barbara Graham used a gun to paralyze an innocent man,
is pleading for leniency from the courts for her actions, and she is an
activist involved in demanding that firearm possession be more severely
restricted in this country.

To top it off, when she was arrested in the shooting case, police found two
guns at her bedside.

Graham had supporters throughout her trial - leaders of the Million Moms
group. Even though she owned guns and used one to shoot an innocent man,
she is a heroine, in an odd sort of way, to a group that seeks more
government controls on firearms, more limits on gun possession, maybe even
an outright ban on them.

Hello? Earth to the Million Moms - why does this not compute?

By the way, Graham, who sometimes uses other names - like Lipscomb and
Martin - did not shoot Kikko Smith in a fit of rage or on instinct. She is
convicted of plotting an ambush of him along with a co-defendant, Erskine
Moorer, who has already been sentenced to 15 years to life in the case.

Meanwhile, a trial has been set for Daniel William Jackson Jr., the accused
shooter of Graham's son.

I raise all this with you today because I think it symbolizes the total
disconnect from reality that infects the minds of those who want to seize
my guns and your guns but see no problem possessing and using guns
themselves. Clearly, if anyone in this country should be denied the right
to own a gun, it's someone like Graham. Yet, she is one of the organizers
of the anti-gun movement.

It's incredible. Yet it's a story that has hardly been told - a factoid
that is probably too discomfiting to warrant big play in the
pro-government, anti-freedom, anti-Second Amendment big media.

For instance, here's how the Washington Post played it last Wednesday in
its metro section: "A grieving mother convicted of shooting a young man she
blamed for her son's killing was sentenced to 10 years to life yesterday in
an unusual case that laid bare the despair and rage of the city's gun
battles."

You had to read until paragraph 14 of the story to get the connection to
the Million Mom March.

It kind of reminds me of a silly incident that occurred last summer when my
wife and I were in Philadelphia around the time of a Million Mom
demonstration.

We were walking around Independence Mall, minding our own business, as they
say. The Million Moms (there were really only a few dozen) had thousands of
shoes on display representing the victims of gun violence. Elizabeth
pointed out that they were using faulty statistics in their display. She
told them they were "an abomination" in the sight of Independence Hall and
all it represented with regard to the birth of freedom in America. She let
them know of the statistics demonstrating that thousands of times a day
guns actually prevent violence.

A commotion ensued and an older, wild-haired man (obviously not a mom, but
a sympathizer) appeared to be on the verge of assaulting my wife. He was
being held back from physically attacking my wife who was guarded only by
four of our daughters, then 14, 11, 8 and eight weeks.

I looked on in amazement, but I wasn't a bit worried. I knew Elizabeth
could deck this would-be assailant. He'd be out for the count. He would
never even know what hit him. But I thought it was interesting that these
practitioners and advocates of nonviolence and disarmament were not eager
to engage in civil debate, but were rather quick to resort to fisticuffs.

It didn't faze this bum that he was threatening the mother of a newborn
only a few feet away. After all, he was fighting for a bigger cause -
disarming every man, woman and child in America and thus destroying the
very foundations of our freedom.

That's right. With Independence Day 2001 just behind us, it ought to be
fresh in our minds that too many good men have sacrificed their lives,
their fortunes and risked their sacred honor fighting for

Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust j2

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

I don't have much of a problem, except perhaps for Nasty Newcomers,
who show up from out of nowhere and bash everyone on the list instead
of employing civil, mannerly, gentlemanly disagreement.

My, how touchy your are - ease up a little - you'll live longer.

I'm pretty sure that we're on the same page with some issues, it's
just that the vituperative rhetoric gets in the way of understanding.

You seem to have remarkable insight into my grasp of WWII history--
I understand all your points about censorship,  I do not understand
your point in the last paragraph regarding Roosevelt ---

Did you somehow conclude that I thought him a "good guy?"

BB




"Damian B. Cooper" wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> At 01:07 AM 7/6/01 -0700, BB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  wrote:
> >-Caveat Lector-
> >
> >Duh-uh!  Pick on a word, and divert  attention away from the main
> >point which was that fdr and the fedguv had firsthand reports of massive
> >deportation, concentration camps, and systematic murder of as many Jews
> >as the germans could process.
> >
> >So the word "holocaust" wasn't used in '41  --  SO WHAT??
> >Does that mean it never happened???  What a clever rebuttal.
> >
> >Do not lose sight of the fact that Jews were not the only target
> >of the lunatic's ethnic cleansing.
>
> Jews served in the armed forces of the Third Reich all the way up
> to and including the rank of Field Marshall.
>
> How do you explain that?
>
> You're problem is that you don't know that World War II occurred
> under a regime of OFFICIAL UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
> CENSORSHIP.
>
> The Roosevelt administration censored the
> news, and the censored news became censored history.
>
> Can you tell me:  when did the U.S. Government officially announce that
> it would stop censoring the news, AND when did it release all of
> the information that it held back from the American public?
>
> The answer is:  there are still hundreds of thousands, perhaps
> millions of World War II era documents that are still classified
> or restricted from public examination in the archives of the U.S.,
> Russia, and other European countries.
>
> Your grasp of  WW II history is nothing more than the Pavlovian
> reaction to a propaganda cartoon painted for you by  Harry
> Hopkins, Alger Hiss, Henry Morganthau, and the other Commies
> who operated Roosevelt.
>
> DBC
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
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> 
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> Om

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Face of Jesus on Europa

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

As you wish.  Just wait..

With some experience, and a little maturity, you may have
a change of attitude.

Perhaps an attitude adjustment




Steve wrote:

> Well goddamn.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Bush's Disgraceful Payback

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

At last, a modicum of truth, however inadvertent.
Check the yearly increase of the national debt since
1980, then try to tell which was a republican administration and
which was a democratic administration.  Impossible.

As Tom Anderson wisely observed back in 1963,
"socialist party candidate A" and "socialist party candidate B."

Or, as another wag observed, vote democratic and get socialism...
Vote republican, and get socialism ...  a little slower.

_



Steve wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Yeah, YOUR bad politician is much, much worse than MY bad politician.
>
> Steve
>
> On 5 Jul 01, at 22:47, Damian B. Cooper wrote:
>
> > And the Janet Reno stonewalling in conjunction with the Clinton's pardons
> > left "MANY, MANY MORE questions still unanswered - not least the
> > extent of the former president's own involvement in the MANY, MANY criminal
> > affairs of
> > the Clinton era.
> >
> > DBC
>

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always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust j2

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Duh-uh!  Pick on a word, and divert  attention away from the main
point which was that fdr and the fedguv had firsthand reports of massive
deportation, concentration camps, and systematic murder of as many Jews
as the germans could process.

So the word "holocaust" wasn't used in '41  --  SO WHAT??
Does that mean it never happened???  What a clever rebuttal.

Do not lose sight of the fact that Jews were not the only target
of the lunatic's ethnic cleansing.  Germans other than Jews -
"undesirables" such as cripples, victims of MS and ALS, the
mentally ill and retarded all qualified, as well as "gypsies" and
catholic priests and nuns, in addition to others qualified as victims
of 'der fuhrer' and his maniacal, sadistic butchers.

Don't get round-shouldered from patting yourself on the back
just because you looked it up in a reader's guide in a library.
That's wonderful, but the "Duh-uh!" belongs to you for trying
to pick a fight over a word instead of considering the idea the
author conveyed in his original post.

WHAT was your purpose in doing that?

___


"Damian B. Cooper" wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> At 07:05 PM 7/5/01 -0400, "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  wrote:
>
> >>
> >> THE TIMES
> >> WEDNESDAY JULY 04 2001
> >>
> >> Allies 'were told of Holocaust in 1941'
> >>
> >> BY BEN MACINTYRE
> >>
>
> Duh-uh!  How could the Allies have been told of "the Holocaust" in 1941
> when the term wasn't in use until 1967.
>
> Go look it up in the "Readers Guide to Periodical Literature" in you library.
> I did.
>
> DBC
>

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] [Fwd: Is the U.K. gun ban OK?]

[BB]

Title: Is the U.K. gun ban OK?



More ammunition and proof that the NWO's gun-control policy benefits no-one but "them". ~ Honeybee.

Commentary: Is the U.K. gun ban OK? 
By IAIN MURRAY, Special to United Press International

Wednesday, 4 July 2001 14:43 (ET)

WASHINGTON, July 4 (UPI) -- When we read about children carrying weapons, of 
course we worry. Their inexperience and naiveté could lead them to do stupid 
things with tragic consequences.

Therefore, it is only natural that one response should be to push for more 
restrictions, to make it more difficult for children to get access to 
weapons. If it works for children, why shouldn't it work for adults? If we 
want to stop criminals carrying guns, for instance, wouldn't the best way be 
to restrict everyone's access to them?

One of the best ways of checking hypotheses like these is to look at actual 
"tests" of the theories. The test lab in this case is the United Kingdom, 
with its subjects being the guinea pigs, as the government enacted strict 
gun control 
laws five years ago following an especially tragic school shooting. But the 
results so far are not good.

We in the United States were shocked, for instance, when the Josephson 
Institute of Ethics revealed data in April that showed that 14 percent of 
all high school pupils -- and 21 percent of all boys -- had carried a weapon 
to school at least once in the past year. Addressing these findings, a 
spokesperson for Handgun Control told Time.com: "The least we can do is keep 
guns out of kids' hands."

That's exactly what Britain's strict gun laws aim to do, but, according to a 
survey for the U.K. government's Youth Justice Board released recently, 
fully 26 percent of high school-age pupils there have carried a weapon for 
aggressive or defensive purposes in the past year. Unfortunately, neither 
survey broke down the results by weapon type (although 17 percent of the 
British children admitted carrying a knife). But worryingly, among British 
"excluded" pupils (those who had been suspended or expelled from school), a 
staggering 23 percent claimed to have had access to a gun in the last year.

This is in a country where it is virtually impossible to get access to a gun 
legally. Some commentators have suggested that part of the reason that the 
current outbreak of foot and mouth disease spread so rapidly there was 
because veterinarians could not shoot infected animals on the spot as they 
are now forbidden to carry pistols. Yet we have evidence that almost a 
quarter of the children who need the most help in avoiding taking the wrong 
path have access to firearms. Strict gun laws don't seem to be helping them 
much.

Nor are they helping hold down crime in general. The recent International 
Crime Victimization Survey, which provides a good indication of overall 
crime levels around the world, shows that, while crime fell dramatically 
during the 1990s in the United States and most of the rest of the world, it 
has remained steady in Britain and Australia (which also enacted a gun ban 
during the late Nineties).

Meanwhile, gun crimes are increasing. According to London's authoritative 
Sunday Times, the number of firearm offences in the United Kingdom increased 
almost 40 percent from 4,903 in 1997 to 6,843 in 2000. These are still small 
figures in comparison to the United States, but the trend is the opposite of 
what might be expected.

It does not seem that Britain can be said to be a safer place as a result of 
the gun ban. The police there have traditionally gone unarmed, but the 
number of incidents in which police officers have had guns issued to them in 
recognition of potential danger increased from about 6,000 in 1994-95 to 
more than 12,000 in 1997-98. And with such incidents come the inevitable 
mistakes: British police recently shot dead a drug dealer in his own 
bedroom. He was both unarmed and naked at the time.

Nor has strict control had much effect on the number of guns available to 
criminals. U.K. police estimate that there are nearly 300,000 illegal guns 
in circulation there -- one for every 200 people. To put that figure in 
perspective, the leading U.S. authority on gun numbers, Gary Kleck of 
Florida State University, estimates that 180,000 guns are used in crimes in 
the United States each year. So despite the strict gun control laws, there 
are more than enough illegally held guns in the United Kingdom to allow gun 
crime there to reach U.S. proportions.

These figures speak for themselves. The United Kingdom enacted strict gun 
control laws and has achieved a rise in gun crime, a decline in safety and a 
position where access to firearms among delinquent children seems 
commonplace. These are valuable lessons for us here. If we enact strict gun 
laws nationwide, we cannot expect to see a swift drop in crime or our police 
able to do their jobs with less risk. Most of all, we cannot expect such 
laws to free delinquent children from the seduction of the gun

[CTRL] [Fwd: re: UTAH town says, "No to U.N.!"]

[BB]

Title: A spark is struck! UTAH town says, "No to U.N.!"



A spark is struck!  UTAH town says, "No
to U.N.!"This to inform you that today, 4th of July, 2001, the city of Laverkin, Utah, struck a
spark for liberty.  The city council passed a local ordinance declaring
themselves a "United Nations-free Zone,"
effective immediately.  It is now illegal to fly the U.N. flag on city
property.  The city has forbidden itself from doing business with the
United Nations in any way.  It also forbids doing business with contractors
who do.  As soon as possible, they will post a sign on the city limits
signs at all approaches to the city, stating, "Welcome to Laverkin - a United
Nations-free Zone by city ordinance, 2001."The City Fathers of
Laverkin were careful to preserve the First Amendment rights of all citizens to
fly any flag from their private property.  Mayor Dan Howard and Councilmen
Allison Snow were particularly pleased with the community support.  Where
normally five to ten people show up for a city council meeting, there were 150
citizens present for this 225th birthday of the USA.The Laverkin version
has modifications from the version drawn up by Dr. Herb Titus and myself. 
I am waiting to see what changes they made.  The original version forbids
the paying of any levy, tax or fee to any United Nations agency, forbids any
judgement by any International Court to be imposed upon local citizens, forbids
the quartering of United Nations troops in the city limits, forbids the forcing
of local citizens for involuntary servitude as soldiers under a United Nations,
etc.  (You can see the original at the link below.)United Nations-free Zone
OrdinanceMayor Jay Lee, of nearby Virgin, Utah,
expressed his support, even though he was disappointed that Virgin did not beat
Laverkin to the punch.  In a conversation with Mayor Lee tonight, he told
me that nearby Toquerville has asked for someone to present the ordinance to
their next town council meeting.  Can city councils do something
like that? Well, there's a pretty good precedent, which apparently withstood
several court challenges in the Sixties, when Berkeley, California, decided to
declare themselves a "nuclear-free zone."  It really didn't affect the city
of Berkeley so much as it affected the national debate.  Supporters of this
ordinance agree that the psychological effect is probably the greatest.  It
expresses the way people feel about the United Nations, and about their own
nation's sovereignty.  As one in Virgin told me last week, "American has a
lot of problems, and nobody's saying it's perfect, but I would rather they be
fixed by Americans than by some foreign bureaucrat who has no clue about what
makes America work."The legal doctrine of "interposition of the lower
magistrate" is well recognized.  When a higher governmental authority
either breaks the law, or refuses to enforce it, it is the right and the duty of
lower magistrates to intervene and function as a check and a balance on the
system.  That is how Magna Carta was passed in 1215.  It's how the
Declaration of Independence was passed in 1776.  It's how Sheriff Richard
Mack sued the US government over the Brady Bill, and at great personal cost,
wound up with a Supreme Court decision declaring Brady as
unconstitutional.  It's how Army Spc. Michael New said, "No, I'll not
violate my exclusive oath of allegiance to my country by wearing a United
Nations patch and headgear, and serving under foreign (illegal) officers." 
And it's how the town of Laverkin, Utah, tells "elected servants of the
The People" that they have gone too far.Inquiries from towns all over
the United States are beginning to roll in.  The question now becomes,
"What will this nation do with such a spark?"  Will it die for lack of
tinder?  Will others nurture it, and add fuel to the fire, and strike other
sparks in their communities?What can I do?  If you know your
city councilors, or county commissioners, and if they are already informed on
the threat the United Nations poses to our national sovereignty, to our very
concept of private property, to freedom, then get a copy of this ordinance and
urge them to pass it.  If they aren't informed, then don't go in and badger
them with this out of the blue.  Start today, educating them to this issue,
and their role in protecting the private property of our local citizens. 
Pass it on.  Daniel NewTexashttp://www.UNWatch.com/Real
Americans don't wear U.N. blue!http://www.MikeNew.com/




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"If you suppress the truth it becomes your enemy . . . if you expose the truth it becomes your weapo

[CTRL] [Fwd: The downing of TWA Flight 800]

[BB]

THE DOWNING OF TWA FLIGHT 800How the cover-up 
unraveled
Editor's note: The following column by independent filmmaker 
Jack Cashill explores how the official explanation of the TWA Flight 800 
disaster fell apart upon examination in his new video documentary "Silenced: 
Flight 800 and the Subversion of Justice." It is available  online through 
WorldNetDaily's store. http://www.dxmarket.com/worldnetdaily/products/V0028.html
By Jack CashillCopyright 2001, 
WorldNetDaily.com
On the evening of July 17, 1996, when Mike Wire quit the 
switch gear room on Beach Lane Bridge for a breath of fresh air, he had no idea 
he would be strolling on to the center stage of one of the most explosive 
political cover-ups in American history. 
For the unassuming Wire (Mick to close friends) to play this 
critical role took a combination of unlikely and unrelated factors, among them 
the reckless cunning of the CIA, an unthinking bit of bureaucracy by the 
National Transportation Safety Board, a seemingly trivial slip-up by the FBI, 
the keen-eyed detective work of ***Accuracy In Media's Reed Irvine, and above 
all, the stalwart character of Mike Wire himself, a man whose courage and 
resolve the CIA would fatally underestimate. 
Wire, a union millwright from suburban Philadelphia, had 
been working all that day on this Westhampton Bridge.  At day's end, he 
leaned his burly six-foot-six inch frame against the rail on the southwest end 
of the bridge and looked out toward the sea beyond the house line.
At that moment a white light caught his eye.  Twelve 
days later, during a 90-minute interview at his Pennsylvania home, he told an 
FBI agent - "a real nice guy" - exactly what he saw.  Here is how the agent 
recorded the conversation on his "302":
"Wire saw a white light that was traveling skyward from the 
ground at approximately a 40 degree angle.  Wire described the white 
light as a light that sparkled and thought it was some type of fireworks.  
Wire stated that the white light "zig zagged" (sic) as it traveled upwards, and 
at the apex of its travel the white light "arched over" and disappeared from 
Wire's view. ... Wire stated the white light traveled outwards from the beach in 
a south-southeasterly direction." 
After the light disappeared, the 302 continues, Wire "saw an 
orange light that appeared to be a fireball." This description, by the way, 
matches the description Wire gave the FBI a few days earlier by phone and 
perfectly mirrors what the eyewitnesses observed in the NTSB missile test: the 
white smoke trail, the zig-zag, the arch, the disappearance.  At the end of 
the 302, the agent added the now ironic notation, Wire "wishes to cooperate in 
any way he can and can be re-contacted at any time."
Wire was hardly alone in his sighting.  Seven-hundred 
and thirty-five other citizens shared their observations of the crash with the 
FBI.  The patterns in their testimony are undeniable, flare after flare, 
streak after streak, zig-zag after zig-zag.  
At least 96 of these eyewitnesses saw the light rise up off 
the horizon. Many saw the explosion from a clearer angle than Wire.  At 
least four of them, for instance, saw the nose of the plane blow off; two of 
these shared this information with the FBI even before the authorities knew the 
nose had fallen off first.  Wire did not parrot these details.  He had 
left Long Island for home the next morning before any story might have 
circulated. Had a co-worker not alerted the FBI to what Wire had seen, Wire 
would have played no role in the drama to follow.
After his July 1996, interviews, Wire returned to his 
uneventful, workaday life in Pennsylvania.  Having little interest in 
politics and less in the Internet, he did not follow the controversy swelling 
around the crash.  Wire did, however, see the CIA recreation of the flight 
presented by the FBI in November of 1997, at least the abbreviated version shown 
on the news. He presumed this to be some temporary scheme to pacify the public 
and was fully unaware of his own role in it.
This CIA video, however, proved to be the central, most 
visible element of a disinformation campaign designed to discredit the 
eyewitnesses. In an animated sequence, The CIA argued that when the nose of the 
plane broke off -- due to a spontaneous explosion in the center wing tank --the 
plane pitched up and climbed like a rocket for more than 3,000 feet. According 
to the CIA, this climb, not a missile, is what the 736 official eyewitnesses 
saw.
Forget for a moment the all-but-unanimous rejection of this 
scenario by aviation world.  Forget, too, the total absence of any 
eyewitness corroboration in the FBI 302s or in the accompanying sketches. Focus 
instead on the role Mike Wire played in the video's creation.
For reasons not fully explained, the CIA chose to build its 
case squarely on Mike Wire's testimony. "FBI investigators determined precisely 
where the eyewitness was standing," says the CIA narrator of Wire while t

Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

FDR's deviousness, his pretending "surprise" at Pearl,
his blaming Kimmel and Short for HIS machinations,
(after all, he DID win his 4th term with the promise that
'your sons will never again fight on foreign soil'),
his knowledge of german atrocities and refusal to act,
all have been known and documented by knowledgeable
historians and patriots since AT LEAST the middle '50's.

Our ambassador to Poland wrote a book entitled "I Saw
Poland Betrayed", thus ending his career in the late '40's.


The press has chosen to remain silent.





flw wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> The evidence indicates FDR knew about Pearl Harbor and
> did nothing; now it is clear he knew about the impending Holocaust
> and did nothing. Now we know what FDR really stands for:
> "F**king Dirty Rat."
> flw
>
> THE TIMES
> WEDNESDAY JULY 04 2001
>
> Allies 'were told of Holocaust in 1941'
>
> BY BEN MACINTYRE
>
> BRITISH and American intelligence services knew of Nazi genocide plans months 
>earlier than previously thought,
> according to a newly declassified document in the United States, but did not warn 
>Jews of the impending
> Holocaust.
> A report written in November 1941, obtained by British agents and passed to the US 
>in March 1942, stated
> unequivocally that it had been decided to eradicate the Jews.
>
> Most historians had concluded that the West did not become aware of the Holocaust 
>until August 1942. The
> information came from Gonzalo Montt Rivas, the Chilean consul in Prague, in a report 
>to his superiors in
> Santiago.
>
> The consul described a German decree that Jews living abroad could no longer be 
>German subjects and that their
> property would be confiscated by the Nazis. Then, interpreting the decree, he wrote: 
>"The German triumph (in
> the war) will leave Europe freed of Semites. It has been decided to eradicate all 
>the Jews and send some to
> Poland and others to the town of Terezin, while looking for a more remote place."
>
> The consul may have been working for German intelligence, despite his country's 
>neutrality, according to
> Richard Breitman, chief historian for the government agency overseeing 
>declassification of wartime records at
> the National Archives and Records Administration.
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
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>
> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Art Bell smear campaign

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

But... But... But...   Art Bell's WIFE is Filipino ..!!??
What an absurd topic to smear him with 



Schmidt wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> This is hot off the wires from drudge, so the URL may change.
>
> Check my website daily
>
> http://leviathan.weblogs.com
>
> http://www.drudgereport.com/flash1.htm
>
> X DRUDGE REPORT X SAT JUNE 30, 2001 20:28:31 ET X
>
> TALKRADIO SENSATION ART BELL VICTIM OF GLOBAL SMEAR CAMPAIGN
>
> Overnight talkradio sensation Art Bell has been falsely labeled a 'Filipino basher' 
>after a phony e-mail message signed 'Art Bell' makes its way around the digital world 
>and finally into print, reproduced in a leading Philippine newspaper.
>
> MORE
>
> "ENTERTAINMENT US TALK RADIO HOST INSULTS FILIPINOS ON INTERNET" headlines the July 
>1 edition of the Philippine Daily Inquirer.
>
> "In the article, 'Filipinos . . . make me puke,' Bell lambastes Filipinos," the 
>paper reports.
>
> "We are printing excerpts from Bell's article: 'The Philippines is a Third World 
>country. Nothing respectable has ever been created by Filipino people during our 
>entire human history. Nothing good has ever come from Philippines and I don't believe 
>anything good ever will...The only Filipinos that can live successfully in Japan are 
>the Filipino prostitutes."
>
> Slight problem.
>
> The e-mail purporting to be Bell's thoughts and words -- is a hoax!
>
> The phony Bell message has been posted repeatedly on USENET newsgroups and has been 
>referenced in chatrooms.
>
> One posting has been traced to the Library computer lab at the University of 
>California in San Diego. "This vicious writing is so obviously a fraud to anyone who 
>listens to Bell's program and to those of us who know Bell personally," said a close 
>source to the radio host.
>
> "What is so surprising, and alarming, is how it has spread... now a newspaper half 
>way around the world has gone and published it!"
>
> Bell is heard on 500 stations nationwide.
>
> END
>
> ---
> Filed By Matt Drudge
> Reports are moved when circumstances warrant
> http://www.drudgereport.com for updates
> (c)DRUDGE REPORT 2001
>
> _
> Get your own FREE allofyourgodsaredead.com Email account at...
> http://www.evilemail.com
>
> http://allofyourgodsaredead.com - Someone had to tell you.
> _
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
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> Om

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==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] god gw

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Well, you're right there on several points, and thanks for the first
friendly response in a long time.

There are elements, as you know, who take every opportunity to
engender divisive chatterings, and many times some poor hapless
soul, simply posting an idea, gets lambasted by some nasty wicked
verbage by someone who's having a very bad day.

I've often thought, that if we were all in a foxhole together, we would
be comrades, fellow Americans, and be watching out for each other's
butts.

Enjoy lunch, the weekend, and the Holiday  --  Our Country's Birthday!

BB



Kris Millegan wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 6/30/01 1:09:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >Had you read the other postings, the answer to your question would have
> >
> >been self evident.
> >
> >
>  I think most of us realize that the left and right are both created beings
> of the forces most of us rail against.
>
> Can we talk more about what we have in common instead of divisive chaterrings
> and get down to substance?
>
> gotta run, lunch is calling.
>
> Om
> K
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
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> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: [CIA-DRUGS] Forbidden Politics

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

A, yes   Just what we NEED on this list - another
anti-Mormon hate group.  Perfect.

He's new on the list, hasn't had time to "read much of your
posts",  but has time to bash an entire church.

Now, THIS will help our country with all the problems we have.






Kris Millegan wrote:

>   --
>
> Subject: [CIA-DRUGS] Forbidden Politics
> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 04:28:59 -
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Hey everyone, I'm new to the list and haven't had time to read much
> of your posts yet (i've been busy on my web site).
>
> Anyway, the following might be of interest since it deals with
> Mormons and the Mormons are grossly over-represented in the CIA. Are
> Mormon/SBC missionaries used as drug couriers? Who knows? All I know
> is that Reagan used them in the 1980s to subvert the leftist in
> Nicaragua.
>
> Have fun!
>
> FORBIDDEN POLITiCS JULY UPDATE
> *
>
> The Southern Baptist Convention organized in 1845 because it wanted
> to support the established practice of slavery in the United States.
> Using the Bible as their cornerstone, they preached vicious sermons
> glorifying the need for the continued enslavement of humans across
> the United States and the globe.
>
> After the United States Civil War, the SBC grew in strength and
> numbers and continued to spread their gospel of hate to the masses.
> Many of its members helped establish the Ku Klux Klan and
> participated in lynch parties where African Americans were
> disemboweled, hanged, and then burned at the stake for their "holy
> amusement".
>
> Today the SBC is the largest Baptist group in the United States. They
> have missionaries across the globe spreading their leaders'
> doctrines. But who are these people? What are their true beliefs? Why
> do they continue to dominate United States politics? And why is their
> leadership filled with Freemasons?
>
> Explore these issues and more with the new update of the Forbidden
> Politics site. We're at:
> http://forbiddenpolitics.i8.com/
>
> Also...
> We've updated our Mormon page with various articles about the current
> state of Mormonism in the world. Here you will find information on
> the elusive Mormon missionaries. You'll find solid links between
> these Mormon "ultra-faithful" and the CIA, Nicaragua in the 1980s,
> blood atonement, arson, Freemasons, and child molesters, child
> molesters, child molesters.
>
> We've also made a page critiquing the art of Mormons in the hopes of
> creating an understanding of the enigma that is the Mormon mind. Are
> they "true believers" or just another mind-controlled establishment
> version of Plato's "ultimate warrior race"? You decide.
>
> Enjoy!
> -Forbidden Politics Staff
>
> NOTE: Forbidden Politics does not endorse ANY religion. We apologize
> if our tone or facts discredit your current belief system. But isn't
> that what evolution is about?
>
> Please let us stay on topic and be civil.
> To unsubscribe please go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cia-drugs
> -Home Page- www.cia-drugs.org
> OM
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] god gw

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

You would have had to read my post of 2:57 a.m. and the message to me
to which it was a reply, wherein the person in question referred to
my "God Bush."

Yes, I can be civil, but you might consider, instead of attacking me,
to avail yourself of the online information, and see what the thread
is all about before getting yourself all in an uproar.

Had you read the other postings, the answer to your question would have
been self evident.

Regarding my view on the first family, you might RE-READ my message
which you yourself just re-posted below, wherein I discuss that very
topic.Shsh!!!




In a message dated Sat, 30 Jun 2001 14:03:10 EDT,
Kris Millegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:




> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 6/30/01 1:55:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >If you leftwingers would use what little brain power you have left,
> >you would
> >realize and gloat in the fact that your enemy bush is not one iota
> >different from
> >the would-be pres algore--  you had the deck stacked both ways, you've
> >won-
> >you just seem incapable of realizing it.
>
>  Pray tell, your vitriperation is seething, why?
>
> And why do you  change the subject into some wierd dialectic?
>
> Can you discuss a topic civily?
>
> Do you have any suggestings other than quibbling?
>
> What is your view on the Bushes?
>
> Om
> K
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
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>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
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> 
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>
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> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] [Fwd: Steve, disruptor, Lies]

[BB]

You've taken so many drugs, that your psychosis is becoming
painfully more obvious by the minute.

I did not set my clock ahead, although one wonders what purpose
your twisted mind might think that would serve.

If you would check the list and time posts, dear clunko,
you will see that my post shows 1:06 and 1:08, and your
accusatory babblings were posted at 1:09.

You depart from the point at issue  --  left-wingers propaganda
publicly identified.  Now, you wander off into the weeds of my
time posting  you poor person.







Steve wrote:

> If you are so concerned about truth and accuracy they why do you set your
> clock ahead so your posts appear to be sent earlier than they really are?
>
> Do Conservatives lie if it suits their purpose? It appears that they do. This
> speaks volumes about your God Bush.
>
> Steve
>
> ANOMALOUS IMAGES
> http://www.anomalous-images.com

[CTRL] god gw

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

If your poor brain wasn't so cooked by the drugs you love so much,
your short term memory would remind you that bush is no god of mine.

If you leftwingers would use what little brain power you have left,
you would
realize and gloat in the fact that your enemy bush is not one iota
different from
the would-be pres algore--  you had the deck stacked both ways, you've
won-
you just seem incapable of realizing it.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] MORE UNDERHANDED REPORTING FROM ABC NEWS

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Yup --  the liberals and socialists just HATE the fact that for once,
a network reporter has unmasked publicly, from the mouths of babes,
the left-wing propaganda that has been indoctrinated into our
children at the hands of the left-wing educational bureaucracy.

They are so angry, not because the children have been propagandized,
but because the fact has been uncovered and made public.

So typical.  It's ok for generations of 'educators' to take everything
good and noble from textbooks, no mention of religion allowed,
God forbid that prayer even be THOUGHT of, George Washington
reduced to a single paragraph, where Marilyn Monroe is given several
pages, ZERO TOLERANCE for a kiss on the cheek, or a boy should
stick out his finger at another in an age old game, or draw a picture
of a weapon, or that a girl in school should have IN HER CAR IN THE
PARKING LOT A FORGOTTEN KITCHEN KNIFE, illegally searched
by school 'authorities', all this is OK, acceptable, desirable.

BUT, when a left-wing ox is gored by the uncovering and publicizing
of a beloved practice of "orienting" our children toward one of THEIR
political viewpoints, just LISTEN to the howls of outrage!!!

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Breast Cancer

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Oh, you're just SO incredibly clever, you little Dickens, you!!

You just KNOW SOOO MUCH - it's so NOBLE of you to point
out the foibles of your fellow, if lower, human beings.

Damn,  I thought we got rid of you.  No such luck.





Steve wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> This is a stupid hoax, an urban legand. It is surprising that anyone falls for
> this.
>
> Steve
>
> On 29 Jun 01, at 23:14, Bill Richer wrote:
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > I thought this was interesting and wanted to share
> > --
> > Original Message
> > From: "kris"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: FWD:Fw: Fw: FW: FW: Fw: Information -- Breast Cancer
> > Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 19:16:40 -0500
> >
> > Some information for us womensomething to think about!!!
> >
> > A friend of mine who has rec'd chemotherapy and is now receiving Radiation at
> > Princess Margaret hospital for breast cancer phoned me today to tell me what
> > they have now found about causes of breast cancer.  And then tonight, got the
> > same information from another friend in Montreal. The person with the cancer
> > has been told by the hospital to only use deodorant rather than an
> > anti-perspirant.
> > The reasons are outlined in the letter below.
> >
> > Anyway, I thought it was worth sharing:
> >
> > Elizabeth Morin
> > Dept. of Medicinal Chemistry
> > Merck Frosst Canada & Co.
> >
> > Tel. (514) 428-3222
> >
> > I'm forwarding this to everyone I know because it makes so much sense. Please
> > forward it to everyone you care about and even those you don't.
> >
> > Ladies - some awareness!
> > Gentleman - pass on to the ladies in your life!
> >
> > Please read this... very important... Some time ago, I attended a Breast
> > Cancer Awareness seminar put on by Terry Birk with support from Dan Sullivan.
> >  During the Q & A period I asked why the most common area for Breast Cancer
> > was near the armpit.
> > My question could not be answered at that time.
> > This email was just sent to me, and I find it interesting that my question
> > has now been answered.  I challenge you all to re-think your every day use of
> > a product that could ultimately lead to a terminal illness.
> > As of today, I will change my use.
> > A friend forwarded this to me.
> > I showed it to a friend going through chemotherapy and she said she learned
> > this fact in a support group recently.
> > I wish I had known it 14 years ago. I just got information from a health
> > seminar that I would like to share.
> > The leading cause of breast cancer is the use of anti-perspirant.
> > What?
> > A concentration of toxins leads to cell mutations:  a.k.a. CANCER.
> >
> > Yes, ANTI-PERSPIRANT.
> >
> > Most of the products out there are an antiperspirant/deodorant combination,
> > so go home and check.  Deodorant is fine but antiperspirant is not.
> >
> > Here's why:
> >
> > The human body has a few areas that it uses to purge toxins behind the knees,
> > behind the ears, groin area, and armpits.  The toxins are purged in the form
> > of perspiration.  Anti-perspirant, as the name clearly indicates, prevents
> > you from perspiring, thereby inhibiting the body from purging toxins from
> > below the armpits.
> > These toxins do not just magically disappear.  Instead, the body deposits
> > them in the lymph nodes below the arms since it cannot sweat them out.
> > Nearly all breast cancer tumors occur in the upper outside quadrant of the
> > breast area.
> > This is precisely where the lymph nodes are located.
> > Additionally, Men are less likely (but not completely exempt) to develop
> > breast cancer prompted by anti-perspirant usage because most of the
> > anti-perspirant product is caught in their hair and is not directly applied
> > to the skin.  Women who apply anti-perspirant right after shaving increase
> > the risk further because shaving causes almost imperceptible nicks in the
> > skin, which give the chemicals entrance into the body from the armpit area.
> >
> > PLEASE pass this along to anyone you care about.
> >
> > Breast cancer is becoming frighteningly common.
> >
> > This awareness may save lives.  If you are skeptical about these findings, I
> > urge you to do some research for yourself. You will arrive at the same
> > conclusions, I assure you.
> >
> > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > ==
> > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> > directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply

[CTRL] [Fwd: unconstitutional strip searches]

[BB]

The phrase "bad cops" near the end of this article is a key factor
in this ongoing, popular "law enforcement" sport.



>From houstonpress.com
Originally published by Houston Press June 28, 2001
©2001 New Times, Inc. All rights reserved.

http://www.houstonpress.com/issues/2001-06-28/feature.html/page1.html

Naked Shame
Years ago, courts ruled that routine strip searches in jails were
unconstitutional. But for Fort Bend
County women, if you got booked, they took a look.
By Wendy Grossman

Lupe Cantu lay in the back of her brother's Ford Mustang wanting to
throw up. It was Good Friday, so instead of a beef taco,
the 41-year-old Catholic woman ordered El Patio's spicy shrimp
flameados. After a few bites, she had started vomiting in the
restaurant. Cantu asked her brother to stop the car, but he told her to
hang on, they were almost home. But a few minutes later
he pulled over -- a Fort Bend County sheriff's deputy asked her brother
for his driver's license, while Cantu puked on the side
of the Southwest Freeway. Sweating in the closed car, Cantu stretched
out in the backseat while the officer conducted
field-sobriety tests on her brother. Cantu is an office manager for a
cardiologist; she had never been stopped by police before,
and she thought they would soon be on their way.

The officer opened the driver's-side door, told Cantu to get out,
handcuffed her and arrested her for public intoxication. She
had drunk only one margarita and says the officer didn't do any sobriety
tests on her before putting her in the patrol car with
her brother's girlfriend.

Cantu started sobbing. They were a mile from her house in Rosenberg's
Greenwood subdivision. She told the officer if he took
the next exit he could take her home. It was almost midnight, Friday the
13th, when they arrived at the Fort Bend County Jail.
Cantu was ordered to remove her thin silver watch, three rings and six
earrings before she and her brother's girlfriend were
taken into a small freezing-cold room where two female officers ordered
the women to strip.

What? Cantu asked. I'm not taking off my clothes.

Take them off, the officer said. Now.

Cantu's friend removed her shoes, jeans and shirt, stopping at her bra
and panties. The guard told her to remove them too.

Afraid that they'd start beating her if she didn't, Cantu pulled off her
black boots and slowly took off her jeans, yellow
turtleneck sweater and underclothes. The guard ordered the women to
raise their arms and then lift their breasts. "What in the
hell could I hide under a size B-cup bra?" Cantu asks. Next the women
were told to turn around, bend over and spread their
butt cheeks while the guard shone a flashlight on their asses. The
larger officer, Cantu insists, was leering at her like she was
enjoying seeing her naked. The other guard, Cantu says, seemed to feel
sorry for them: She offered to bring the women
breakfast.

Cantu was fingerprinted, photographed and placed in a holding cell until
almost 7 a.m., when her daughter came and paid the
$200 bail to free her. A guard again watched Cantu undress and dress as
she changed back into her street clothes.

Her brother's strip search, Cantu says, was worse. The guards peeled
back the foreskin on his penis to make sure he was
wasn't hiding anything there. "I never, ever, knew that they did that,"
Cantu says. "I thought you go to jail, you make a phone
call, they put you in a cell. It's degrading."

Months later, Cantu's brother still avoids leaving the house. He goes to
work, he comes home, and he sits in his bedroom. He
worries what people he works with and people in the community would
think of him if they knew what happened. He thinks
the cops might have pulled him over because of his Mustang, so he wants
to buy a less sporty car.

Cantu couldn't sleep after the strip search. Her doctor had to prescribe
sleeping pills. By Tuesday, everyone in Rosenberg
knew what had happened to her. She felt embarrassed and humiliated and
didn't talk to her brother's girlfriend for weeks.
Cantu is planning to file a federal civil rights suit for the violation
of her constitutional rights against unreasonable searches; she
has three daughters aged 17 to 22 and says she can't let this happen to
them.

"It just shocks me that something as plainly written as the Fourth
Amendment can be so wildly ignored by law enforcement,"
says her attorney John McDowell.

The county's lawyer, John Zavitsanos, admits that until April, guards
strip-searched all women booked into the jail. Federal
courts have said that officers must have a "reasonable suspicion" to
search people arrested for misdemeanors.

Fort Bend County justifies its actions based on nothing more than the
jail's floor plan. Arrestees are separated by sex, and the
holding cells are situated so men and women cannot see or hear each
other. Since the duty officer, seated in front of the men's
cell, can't see into the women's cell, guards automatically searched
every woman arrested regardless of her charge

[CTRL] [Fwd: Airline pilots watch documentary in horror]

[BB]

 TWA 800 controversy heats up
 Airline pilots watch documentary in horror

 On a warm June evening in Kansas City, the historic home of TWA and the
 current site of its huge overhaul base, a group of 75 or so airline pilots
 watched the documentary "Silenced: Flight 800 and the Subversion of Justice"
 in stunned horror, writes filmmaker Jack Cashill in WorldNetDaily.

 Afterwards, not a one among them, either publicly or privately, challenged
 the video's thesis that TWA Flight 800 had indeed been shot down, he writes.
 Offered instead were corroborating details, particularly from angry TWA
 pilots, about the money trail and the inexplicable Pentagon visits of then
 TWA CEO Jeff Erickson. Said one TWA pilot: "90 percent of us believe there
 was a government cover-up."

 Cashill says the fifth anniversary of the TWA Flight 800 disaster on July 17
 presents the last great opportunity to share this story with a mainstream
 media that definitely does not want to hear it. If the overwhelming public
 response in the last two weeks is any indication, this is one story that may
 well from the bottom up.

 If you want to be out front on this one, make sure you have seen Jack
 Cashill's amazing video documentary, "Silence: Flight 800 and the Subversion
 of Justice," available exclusively at the WorldNetDaily online store.
 http://www.dxmarket.com/worldnetdaily/products/V0028.html

[CTRL] [Fwd: Nebraska Police Officers Posing as INS Agents Severely BeatImmigrant, ACLU Charges]

[BB]

Nebraska Police Officers Posing as INS Agents
Severely Beat Immigrant, ACLU Charges

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Monday, June 25, 2001


LINCOLN, NE--A Scottsbluff police officer claiming to be an
Immigration and Naturalization Service agent entered a man's house
without a warrant and severely beat him in front of his family, the
American Civil Liberties Union of Nebraska charged in a civil rights
lawsuit filed this afternoon.

Two of the officers used so much pepper spray in arresting Ramon
Villa-Velazquez of Scottsbluff that the rest of the family had to
vacate the house for several days and his infant son suffered
breathing and skin problems.

"These officers acted with malice and with reckless disregard for the
rights of the Villa-Velazquez family," said ACLU of Nebraska
Executive Director Tim Butz. "A 13-year-old girl had to watch in
horror as her father was beaten for no other reason than the color of
his skin."

"This is not some theoretical violation of the Constitution," Butz
added, "The actions of these officers resulted in severe emotional
and physical damage that may never be repaired."

The lawsuit, filed against the Scottsbluff Police Department, names
Officers Bruce Ferguson, Steven Bonds and (First Name Unknown) Lucky
and alleges violations of the federal constitutional right to be free
from unlawful searches and seizures and the right to due process.

The lawsuit also alleges that the detention and beating of Mr.
Villa-Velazquez was racially motivated.

According to a filing made in Federal District Court in Lincoln, on
March 16, 2000, Officer Ferguson entered the Villa-Velazquez home
without a warrant or permission. He was later joined by Officers
Bonds and Lucky.

Ferguson, who was not in uniform, claimed to be an INS agent and
demanded that Villa-Velazquez show his immigration documents. When
Villa-Velazquez showed a visa, Ferguson told him that he was under
arrest. When Villa-Velazquez asked Ferguson for a warrant or
identification, Ferguson flashed his badge in manner that did not
allow Villa-Velazquez or his daughter to see it.

Aware of his rights, Villa-Velazquez refused to leave his home
without proof that the officers were with INS or had a warrant. He
made no threats, nor did he act in a physically threatening manner
towards the police, the ACLU said.

Nonetheless, Ferguson, aided by Officer Steven Bonds, used pepper
spray on Villa-Velazquez and beat him on the back, chest, neck and
shoulders. The lawsuit also alleges that when taking Mr.
Villa-Velazquez out of his home, the officers deliberately rammed his
head into the doorframe. When the officers placed him in a car driven
by Officer Lucky, they again beat Villa-Velazquez, banging his head
against the car and banging the door against his head.

According to the lawsuit, the beating resulted in "serious and
permanent physical injuries" to Mr. Villa-Velazquez. Today, 15 months
after the incident, he cannot stand upright as he could before his
arrest and he continues to suffer physical pain from the beating.

The lawsuit was filed by Lincoln attorney Stephen Charest from the
firm of Berry Kelley Charest & Reiman.

"It is ironic to me that on the one hand communities encourage
Hispanic workers to come and work in towns where there is a labor
shortage, yet tolerate flagrant abuses of power by community
officials such as these," Charest said.

The lawsuit, filed on behalf of Villa-Velazquez, his wife, Maria
Villa, daughter Crystal, 13, and infant son Ramon, seeks damages for
emotional distress, mental anguish, loss of liberty and humiliation.

Charest is a member of the Board of Directors of the ACLU of Nebraska
and is bilingual in English and Spanish. He is representing the
family without cost to them. The other costs of the litigation are
being born by the ACLU of Nebraska Foundation, which is financed by
private donors and ACLU members. The ACLU of Nebraska is an affiliate
of the national American Civil Liberties Union.

A copy of the complaint is online at
http://www.aclu.org/court/villa-velazquez.pdf.


Copyright 2001, The American Civil Liberties Union

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[CTRL] [Fwd: Inappropriate Attire]

[BB]

Friends,

Zero tolerance, 100 % control. How can we expect our children to be
educated when our "educators" are so stupid?

Jim Hardin

The Freedom Page
http://www.freedompage.ws
To receive Freedom Page mail, put "Subscribe"
as subject to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To be removed, put "Remove" as subject.

Republic USA
http://www.republicusa.org


From: "GG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Inappropriate Attire

Now this causes me to have a rather strong reaction to this! Maybe someone
should inform the FOOL that did this that he/she has insulted all those that
have fought and died in uniform, much less those that are currently serving
in the defense of this country, which granted this nefarious slime-bucket
the honor of residing in our country.
Maybe someone in INDIANA should provide me with the email address of this
nefarious school officials and ASSociated minions  Yes, I want some
of the hair from this dog (a flank or two to eat would not be bad).
walt
-
"Two graduating seniors at Indiana's Elkhart Memorial High School were
kicked out of their graduation ceremonies for failing to comply with the
school's dress code, which, the Associated Press reports, required 'that
males must wear socks, a shirt with collar, tie and slacks.' These guys
weren't wearing ratty T-shirts, blue jeans, backward baseball caps and nose
rings. They weren't in drag. No, they were wearing Marine uniforms--dress
blues, no less.
"Pfc. David Hobbs and Pvt. Josh Beam had enlisted in the Marines, gone to
San Diego for three months of basic training and returned to graduate with
their class in Elkhart. They might as well not have bothered: 'Hobbs said
he was pulled aside by school officials and given a choice on his attire.
'They said I either had to take my (jacket) off and put on a shirt and tie o
r put a tie on my military uniform.' Hobbs said he told school officials
that neither one would be possible because military personnel can neither
wear an incomplete uniform or add anything to it that is not part of the
uniform. 'I told him several times that I was going to wear the cap and
gown,' he said. It was at that time Hobbs said he and Beam were asked to
leave and escorted out of the Joyce Center.'"
- Best of the Web, 6/11/01

Interested in Constitutional Issues? Checkout The Freedom Page
radio show audio tapes.  Just click:
http://freedompage.home.mindspring.com/store.html

Re: [CTRL] Captain John Birch

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Just to be clear, I never said you did.  I was making a point that you made an
error
saying  "John Birch and his latter day followers, were alarmists, IMHO."

He was never an alarmist, since he was never part of the movement
whose followers you say were alarmists.

He was never an extremist patriot either - one can only wonder at
where you get these thoughts from. He died 13 years before the
JBS was founded, was simply a member of the U.S. Armed Forces,
and expressed no alarmist or extremist views.

As to Goldwater, you're on your own with that.

You might, however, wish to avail yourself of a copy of
"The Life of John Birch."






Steve Wingate wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Just to be clear, I never stated that John Birch was a member of the John
> Birch Society.
>
> But I think he might have been an extremist patriot, not that that is a bad
> thing to be (Extremism in the virtue of freedom is not a dead horse, or
> some such progress. Please update me on Goldwater, how soon the
> liberals forget, or some such rot... Or do you dispute that also. :)
>
> On 19 Jun 01, at 1:14, BB wrote:
>
> > Steve Wingate wrote:
> > "John Birch and his latter day followers, were alarmists, IMHO."
> >
> > Captain John Birch was on active duty in the U. S. Army, when murdered
> > by the Red Chinese in 1945, 13 years before the founding of the society
> > which bears his name.
> >
> > Captain John Birch was never a member of the John Birch Society.
>
> ANOMALOUS IMAGES
> http://www.anomalous-images.com
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
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> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Captain John Birch

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Steve Wingate wrote:
"John Birch and his latter day followers, were alarmists, IMHO."

Captain John Birch was on active duty in the U. S. Army, when murdered
by the Red Chinese in 1945, 13 years before the founding of the society
which bears his name.

Captain John Birch was never a member of the John Birch Society.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Mormon...Mason...What's The Dif'???

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Sorry Aleisha, but I think you are mistaken on this one:

"The only thing I do not like about them is this:
They wrote me once to say I descended from Demons and Satan as in their
Archives they claim the Plantagenets and Fitzgeralds descend from same -
like bright morning stars?"

The mormon church does not send information to individuals, does not
contact people through the mails.  I  have never heard any of the four
references above, from the mormon church, regarding people descending
from them, and the 2 families named.

At one time there was a REORGANIZED Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints (It has since changed names). I am not aware of any of those references
coming from them, either.

Could you possibly still have the letter or materials that were sent?  It would
be interesting to see where they really came from.

Bill

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Mormon...Mason...What's The Dif'???

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

June, I do not believe you realize the theology, or "religion" of the
"mormon" church.

You made one comment which is very wrong in both fact and logic--

"Mormonism, while basing some of its tenets on Christ, is a religion
separate from Christianity, just like Christianity is separate from
Judaism, even though it has its roots in Judaism...calling an anti-Mormon
post "anti-Christian" makes as much sense as saying someone who bashes
the Catholic Church is antisemitic..."

It is NOT "a religion separate from Christianity", and your analogy of
"Catholic   antisemitic"  is very much off base - it does not apply.

You must go back and read my post more carefully - I DID NOT
call an anti-Mormon post "anti-Christian", WHAT I SAID WAS:


"Seems like the author's name of this viscous trash is "psychotic",
or "anti-Christian", or "religion-hater", or something similar."

I used the same sentence structure and format as the original poster.

But now that you bring up the old saw about Mormons not being Christian,
may I simply remind you that the name of their church is:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

So please don't tell the world that "Mormonism, while basing some of its
tenets on Christ, is a religion separate from Christianity" -

That statement is simply not true, and it is wrong to say so.

The main point of my post IN THE FIRST PLACE,  is--

WHY AN ANTI MORMON POST?  Why bash a religion?
Why out of a clear sky bring this up? What's the motivation?
I covered all these questions, and strangeness of the anti-
Mormon post when I first wrote.  Nobody seems to be
addressing the question of why would someone, unprovoked,
wish to post an anti -ANY RELIGION message in the first place?

Is there NOTHING more important to concern ourselves with
on this group?  Have we NO national or world problems?

Bill

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Mormon...Mason...What's The Dif'???

[BB]

Better check some stats on Utah.  And yes, there are NO mormon towns.
You're right, it SEEMS to you that the entire state of Utah is "pretty
much
mormon" - but, check again.
You folks are confusing the 1940 movie "Brigham Young", some statements
by a "former mormon", the donneybrook regarding some desert town,
non mormon polygamists with the reality of 2001 America.
What you would LIKE to believe "ain't necessarily so."
Now, you KNOW that I never suggested anything, so don't try the
"putting words in my fingers" gambit.  The overriding question
here
is not whether religion is above reproach, but WHY someone would
just come out of the woodwork with a viscously anti-religion post.
 
 
 
 
 
 
William Shannon wrote:
In a message
dated 6/17/01 12:30:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 
There
are NO "mormon" towns.

Hmmm, no
Mormon towns eh? Well seems to me that the entire state of Utah is
pretty
much Mormon and I'd venture to guess that there are a few Mormon towns
to be
found there no?
Are you
suggesting that religion is above reproach?
Bill.

Re: [CTRL] Mormon...Mason...What's The Dif'???

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Yeah, yeah, name withheld.  Of course. I wonder, where did this COME
from?  How did this topic suddenly land on this net?  Must be a slow
news day.

Yes, what WAS the name of "that doctor"??  This well informed intelligentsia
never did say, or recall.

There are NO "mormon" towns.

He assaulted and raped almost the entire female population - yup, that
sure sounds likely.  Sounds like a scene from Don Giovanni.

Oh yeah, fox, or wolf, or something  yeah, what WAS his famous name?
Seems like the author's name of this viscous trash is "psychotic",
or "anti-Christian", or "religion-hater", or something similar.



Schmidt wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> >>FORMER MORMON CONFIRMS
> >>THE HYPOCRISY OF THE MORMON CHURCH
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >>Name withheld
> >
> >
> >While I'm no fan of the Mormon church, I always take anonymous
> >allegations with a grain of salt...
> >
>
> I've heard far more serious allegations which were well documented. What was the 
>name of that Doctor, there was a true-crime-cheap-thrill novel about him, who worked 
>in a Mormon town for years. He sexually assaulted and in many cases raped almost the 
>entire female population of the town, young or old, yet the Mormon Elders not only 
>did nothing but covered up the numerous allegations that were brought to them. The 
>reason he was so succesful for so long is that many Mormon women are very ignorant 
>about sex, and are trained not to question the men of the community at all. I think 
>his name might have been Fox or Wolf or something similar.
>
> _
> Get your own FREE allofyourgodsaredead.com Email account at...
> http://www.evilemail.com
>
> http://allofyourgodsaredead.com - Someone had to tell you.
> _
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
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http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] Mormon...Mason...What's The Dif'???

[BB]

'What's the Dif'?  Perhaps there's a library in your town, you might
avail yourself of its facilities, and educate yourself somewhat in
these
matters.
It's not true that the Baptists molested all those young girls in that
town.
No, the priests and nuns do not sleep together.
It's a lie that they found all those newborn babies buried in the
    Catholic Convent basement...
WHEN will the numbskulls who write this garbage EVER LEARN?
And when will the fools who read it and believe it realize that these
psychotics
are sick, and are doing these things simply to divide Americans any
way
they can.
This supposed female viscously lies in her pitiful quotation of the
"ritual."
"She" hasn't a clue about which "she" speaks.
"Her" husband running off after one month says alot about her role
as a
wife and woman.
Yes, "David" is a truth teller all right - and so is "Name Withheld."
A most credible witness, to air "her" dirty laundry, in a venue such
as this, anonymously.  What a heroic American.
Friends, don't fall for this hogwash.  It's junk.  Concentrate
on our
real problems.
William Shannon wrote:
 
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/index1c.html
 
FORMER MORMON
CONFIRMS
THE HYPOCRISY
OF THE MORMON CHURCH
 
I have been reading
the articles about the Mormon church on David's site and
I just wanted
to tell you that you are definitely on the right track. I was
raised Mormon
here in Fairbanks, Alaska. I was married in the Salt Lake
Temple in April
1980.
The ceremonies,
word for word, were exactly the same as the Masonic rituals.
I especially
was disgusted by the part of the ritual where I was told that my
husband would
have to "bring me into heaven" - I could not get there by
myself, no matter
how good I was. My husband ran off with an underage hooker
one month after
we returned from the temple, and informed me that I must
remain married
to him, because he wanted to be able to "get some" from me any
time he was
bored with the hooker.
The church told
me, when I complained to them, that I must do as he said, and
that I could
not divorce him. Well, I knew where the court house was, so I
got my divorce,
anyway and left the church in the dust.
Since that time,
I have investigated several organized religions, and have
decided that
I am a spiritual person, but not a religious one. Tell David to
keep on telling
the truth!
Name withheld

[CTRL] [Fwd: Dam Bureaucrats -- A Must Read]

[BB]

This is
wonderful!  An actual event to show the foolishness that is going
on in our country.  Send this on.  
Virginia 
This was an actual
letter sent to Ryan De Vries from The Michigan Department of Environmental
Quality, State of Michigan. One must read the entire letter and response to
enjoy the full significance of arrogant, ignorant government
bureaucrats.   Enjoy!  
== Mr. Ryan De
Vries 2088 Dagget Pierson, MI 49339 Dear Mr. De Vries:
SUBJECT: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; Montcalm County
It has come to the attention of the Department of environmental Quality
that there has been recent unauthorized activity on the above referenced
parcel of property. You have been certified as the legal landowner
and/or contractor who did the following unauthorized activity:
Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams across the outlet
stream of Spring Pond. A permit must be issued prior to the start of
this type of activity. A review of the Department's files shows that no
permits have been issued. Therefore, the Department has determined
that this activity is in violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of
the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public
Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled
Laws, annotated. The Department has been informed that one or both
of the dams partially failed during a recent rain event, causing debris and
flooding at downstream locations. We find that dams of this nature are
inherently hazardous and cannot be permitted. The Department therefore
orders you to cease and desist all activities at this location, and to
restore the stream to a free-flow condition by removing all wood and brush
forming the dams from the stream channel. All restoration work shall be
completed no later than January 31, 1998.  Please notify this
office when the restoration has been completed so that a follow-up site
inspection may be scheduled by our staff. Failure to comply with this
request or any further unauthorized activity on the site may result in this
case being referred for elevated enforcement action. We anticipate and would
appreciate your full cooperation in this matter. Please feel free to contact
me at this office if you have any questions. Sincerely, David L.
Price District Representative Land and Water Management Division
 ~~~ RESPONSE
Dear Mr. Price: Re: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20;
Montcalm County Your certified letter dated 12/17/97 has been handed to
me to respond to. First of all, Mr. Ryan De Vries is not the legal
landowner and / or contractor at 2088 Dagget, Pierson, Michigan. I am the
legal owner and a couple of beavers are in the (State unauthorized) process
of constructing and maintaining two wood "debris" dams across the outlet
stream of my Spring Pond. While I did not pay for, authorize, nor
supervise their dam project, I think they would be highly offended that
you call their skillful use of natural building materials "debris."
I would like to challenge your department to attempt to emulate their
dam project any time and/or any place you choose. I believe I can safely
state there is no way you could ever match their dam skills, their dam
resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence, their dam
determination and/or their dam work ethic. As to your request, I do not
think the beavers are aware that they must first fill out a dam permit
prior to the start of this type of dam activity.  My first dam
question to you is: (1) Are you trying to discriminate against my Spring
Pond Beavers or (2) do you require all beavers throughout this State to
conform to said dam request? If you are not discriminating against
these particular beavers, through the Freedom of Information Act I request
completed copies of all those other applicable beaver dam permits that have
been issued. Perhaps we will see if there really is a dam violation of Part
301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental
Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101
to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, annotated. I have
several concerns. My first concern is - aren't the beavers entitled to legal
representation? The Spring Pond Beavers are financially destitute and are
unable to pay for said representation - so the State will have to provide
them with a dam lawyer.  The Department's dam concern that either one
or both of the dams failed during a recent rain event causing flooding is
proof that this is a natural occurrence, which the Department is required to
protect. In other words, we should leave the Spring Pond Beavers alone
rather than harassing them and calling their dam names. If you want
the stream "restored" to a dam free-flow condition - please contact the
beavers - but if you are going to arrest them (they obviously did not pay
any att

Re: [CTRL] 'I Want Bush Girls to Get Into Big Trouble'

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Little being the operative word here

Aleisha Saba wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Steve you are a lying little bastard.
>
> Saba
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
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http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Cross posting

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Since WHEN is "cross posting" against SNET rules?
Virtually EVERY message is posted from somewhere else.

You've posted messages from SNET to CTRL and vice versa,
so now WHAT'S THIS ABOUT?

I suspect this case is special, because it showed the folks on SNET
just what kind of a rude juvenile was running their group.

Many have said it, I'll say it again - you lie repeatedly when you say you
never call names (which you abhor on the part of others). I've seen it.
That's why I let your double standard be demonstrated by your own words.

I wondered how you'd figure a way to ban me - you have done so to every
individual who disagreed with you and could not be bullied by your
strong-arm methods.

Below, you tell Amelia to get her facts straight.

To you, I say, grow up.

And, what is your FETISH about "someone calling himself BB?"
I call myself BB because I am in fact, BB, and have been posting
to SNET for 2-3 years as "BB".  How could you never have noticed?
I have written to you DIRECTLY as BB - and you seemed to know
who it was then, so what's all this nonsense about someone
"calling himself BB?"

You ARE something!

BB

__

Steve Wingate wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Amelia,
>
> I realize this is off topic for CTRL, but since you are once again lying, I will
> respond. Get your facts straight and stop trying to defame people. *Last
> night* I removed a person calling themselves 'BB' for cross posting
> messages from CTRL that were in violation of SNET rules. Now I think as a
> moderator and list owner I have the right to make judgements and take
> actions to enforce the rules.
>
> It is pretty obvious to everyone here that you are twisting the facts to suit
> your devious purposes. Get a life and grow up, Amlelia!
>
> Steve
>
> On 11 Jun 01, at 13:29, Amelia wrote:
>
> > It appears that I am NOT the one LYING.  This speaks for
> > itself for that is exactly what you are doing, AGAIN, as
> > always.  Reasonable people DESIRE that all sides of an issue
> > be presented.  Those with an agenda only want THEIR side
> > presented and must always either eliminate or discredit anyone
> > holding any other viewpoint.
> > ~Amelia~
>
> ANOMALOUS IMAGES
> http://www.anomalous-images.com
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
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Om

[CTRL] Steve accuses Amelia

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

She's lying, he says.

He wrote, "I did not kick anyone off SNET for being offended. You LIE,
Amelia."

He kicked ME off of SNET.  If it was not for being offended, then was it
because he liked me so much?

He was furious because I posted some of his rantings, nastiness and
foul attitude that he wrote to CTRL. How's that for fair exchange of ideas?

Liberals sure aren't very liberal when it comes to a conservative viewpoint.

BB


Amelia wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> It appears that I am NOT the one LYING.  This speaks for
> itself for that is exactly what you are doing, AGAIN, as
> always.  Reasonable people DESIRE that all sides of an issue
> be presented.  Those with an agenda only want THEIR side
> presented and must always either eliminate or discredit anyone
> holding any other viewpoint.
> ~Amelia~
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Steve Wingate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 6:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] 'I Want Bush Girls to Get Into Big
> Trouble'
>
> -Caveat Lector-
> I did not kick anyone off SNET for being offended. You LIE,
> Amelia.
>
> And get your facts straight next time, Amelia. You have a
> tendency to distort
> the truth (LIE) sometimes, unfortunately.
>
> Steve  (BUT THEN WHAT DOES STEVE DO??)
> - Original Message -
> From: "BB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 2:21 AM
> Subject: [CTRL] [Fwd: Goodbye from SNETNEWS]
> Hi,
>
> You have been removed from the mailing list 'SNETNEWS'.
> Thank you for participating.
>
> Please visit Topica at http://www.topica.com/ and browse
> our Directory to find another list that may be of interest
> to you.
>
> If you have any questions, please visit our help system at
> http://www.topica.com/ (click on "help" on the bottom of the
> screen) or email our Customer Support Department at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Thank you,
>
> Topica Customer Support
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
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> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] [Fwd: Goodbye from SNETNEWS]

[BB]

Hi,

You have been removed from the mailing list 'SNETNEWS'.
Thank you for participating.

Please visit Topica at http://www.topica.com/ and browse
our Directory to find another list that may be of interest
to you.

If you have any questions, please visit our help system at
http://www.topica.com/ (click on "help" on the bottom of the
screen) or email our Customer Support Department at
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Thank you,


Topica Customer Support

Re: [CTRL] Disturbing

[BB]

What in the world is the difference?
Having gestapos means NO FREEDOM.
Having FREEDOM means not having gestapos.
 
 
 
Foxter wrote:

 I
think it has to do more with the fear of gestappoism than freedoms.  

- Original Message -

From:
William Shannon

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 6:36
PM

Subject: Re: [CTRL] Disturbing
 In a message dated 6/9/01
1:12:32 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
 
 
How
come you guys whine so loud about your civil liberties when the
issue is your
religion, but you're silent about my civil liberties when
the issues is
which drugs I am allowed to take? Could it be that you are
a bunch of self
serving hypocrites who only groan when their ox is
gored, or am
I jumping to conclusions?

Excellent
questions!!!
Will await
answers...
Bill.

Re: [CTRL] Disturbing

[BB]

Excellent questions?
They are STUPID questions - posed for agitation only. You know
they are not meant to be answered.  If you lefty types have a
gripe,
act like men and post it, but don't try to look cute by talking big
and
abusing some soul who simply came to the group seeking information.
I notice none of you heroes ever forwarded him the information he
requested  --  only abuse.
    I'll bet you were a bully in high school, also, weren't
you?
He didn't whine, he documented - he told you what happened.
The issue was not religion, but abuse of power.  Just remember
something, when HIS freedom goes, so does YOURS.
If you want to take more drugs, TAKE IT UP WITH YOUR
GOVERNMENT, don't make an obnoxious nuisance of yourself
in upsetting the list.
Sounds to me that you are the self serving hypocrite, jumping on
his issue, and bawling your own griefs on it.
How do you know when he groans, or how many others he has
helped?
    Jumping to conclusions?
    Appears more like Leaping to Lunacy.
PS  Have you sent him the info he requested yet?
 
 
William Shannon wrote:
In a message
dated 6/9/01 1:12:32 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
 
 
How
come you guys whine so loud about your civil liberties when the
issue is your
religion, but you're silent about my civil liberties when
the issues is
which drugs I am allowed to take? Could it be that you are
a bunch of self
serving hypocrites who only groan when their ox is
gored, or am
I jumping to conclusions?

Excellent
questions!!!
Will await
answers...
Bill.

Re: [CTRL] Disturbing

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

No, you are jumping to idiocy.  This person documents an outrageous
incident of violation of several Constitutional rights, and you BLAST
him for it???

What side are you on, anyway?  Maybe he should have thrown in a
pro-drug plug just for you, and you would have applauded him for it.

Why is it that when you complain, it is justifiable, but when some other
citizen complains, he's 'whining?'   hmm?

What kind of person are you anyway??
Just want to stir things up?
Get an argument going?
Bust up the group?  What?  Hm???

I'll tell YOU who the self serving hypocrite appears to be..

___

Nessie wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> How come you guys whine so loud about your civil liberties when the
> issue is your religion, but you're silent about my civil liberties when
> the issues is which drugs I am allowed to take? Could it be that you are
> a bunch of self serving hypocrites who only groan when their ox is
> gored, or am I jumping to conclusions?
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> =CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing 
>propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
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>
> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Troubles and makers

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

OK Steve, whoever you really are.

I guess some of my disinformation comes from YOU attempting
to portray yourself as a gentleman, a reasonable person willing to
discuss issues, and being intelligent.

I was bamboozled by you on all 3 counts - your recent abusive
behavior, nasty rudeness, far-left wing bias, and disruptive antics
and the perversion of TWO post nets have painted a much more
accurate picture of yourself.  Time for you to move on and find
some other sites to ruin, get the folks squabbling, and some new
victims to abuse.

Our country does need any more of your socialist, left wing
propaganda.  Your liberal ideas have gotten us EXACTLY WHERE
WE ARE TODAY.

You frequently tell people they are not informed, are mistaken, are
not aware...  etc.  Try reading some books.  Inform yourself.
Find out what's going on.  Wake up and Wise up.

Your friend,

        BB

Steve Wingate wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On 9 Jun 01, at 2:21, BB wrote:
>
> > Sorry day when I cannot simply forward
> > a post without you going ballistic on me.
>
> I was not replying to a post you forwarded, BB, whoever you really are.
>
> Get your disinformation straight.  ;)
>
> Steve
>
> ANOMALOUS IMAGES
> http://www.anomalous-images.com
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
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http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] More land of the free-[Fwd: Postal Service Has Its Eye on You]]

[BB]

->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List



Postal Service Has Its Eye on You




By John Berlau
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Since 1997, the U.S. Postal Service has been conducting a
customer-surveillance program, ‘Under the Eagle’s Eye,’ and reporting
innocent activity to federal law enforcement.

Remember “Know Your Customer”? Two years ago the federal government
tried to
require banks to profile every customer’s “normal and expected
transactions”
and report the slightest deviation to the feds as a “suspicious
activity.”
The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. withdrew the requirement in March
1999
after receiving 300,000 opposing comments and massive bipartisan
opposition.
   But while your bank teller may not have been snooping and
snitching
on your every financial move, your local post office has been (and is)
watching you closely, Insight has learned. That is, if you have bought
money
orders, made wire transfers or sought cash cards from a postal clerk.
Since
1997, in fact, the window clerk may very well have reported you to the
government as a “suspicious” customer. It doesn’t matter that you are
not a
drug dealer, terrorist or other type of criminal or that the the
transaction
itself was perfectly legal. The guiding principle of the new postal
program
to combat money laundering, according to a U.S. Postal Service training
video obtained by Insight, is: “It’s better to report 10 legal
transactions
than to let one illegal transaction get by.”
   Many privacy advocates see similarities in the post office’s
customer-surveillance program, called “Under the Eagle’s Eye,” to the
“Know
Your Customer” rules. In fact, in a postal-service training manual also
obtained by Insight, postal clerks are admonished to “know your
customers.”
   Both the manual and the training video give a broad definition of
“suspicious” in instructing clerks when to fill out a “suspicious
activity
report” after a customer has made a purchase. “The rule of thumb is if
it
seems suspicious to you, then it is suspicious,” says the manual. “As we
said before, and will say again, it is better to report many legitimate
transactions that seem suspicious than let one illegal one slip
through.”
   It is statements such as these that raise the ire of leading
privacy
advocates on both the left and right, most of whom didn’t know about the
program until asked by Insight to comment. For example, Rep. Ron Paul,
R-Texas, who led the charge on Capitol Hill against the “Know Your
Customer”
rules, expressed both surprise and concern about “Under the Eagle’s
Eye.” He
says the video’s instructions to report transactions as suspicious are
“the
reverse of what the theory used to be: We were supposed to let guilty
people
go by if we were doing harm to innocent people” when the methods of
trying
to apprehend criminals violated the rights of ordinary citizens. Paul
says
he may introduce legislation to stop “Under the Eagle’s Eye.”
   The same sort of response came from another prominent critic of
“Know
Your Customer,” this time on the left, who was appalled by details of
the
training video. “The postal service is training its employees to invade
their customers’ privacy,” Greg Nojeim, associate director of the
American
Civil Liberties Union Washington National Office, tells Insight. “This
training will result in the reporting to the government of tens of
thousands
of innocent transactions that are none of the government’s business. I
had
thought the postal-service’s eagle stood for freedom. Now I know it
stands
for, ‘We’re watching you!’”
   But postal officials who run “Under the Eagle’s Eye” say that
flagging customers who do not follow “normal” patterns is essential if
law
enforcement is to catch criminals laundering money from illegal
transactions. “The postal service has a responsibility to know what
their
legitimate customers are doing with their instruments,” Al Gillum, a
former
postal inspector who now is acting program manager, tells Insight. “If
people are buying instruments outside of a norm that the entity itself
has
to establish, then that’s where you start with suspicious analysis,
suspicious reporting. It literally is based on knowing what our
legitimate
customers do, what activities they’re involved in.”
   Gillum’s boss, Henry Gibson, the postal-service’s Bank Secrecy
Act
compliance officer, says the anti-money-laundering program started in
1997
already has helped catch some criminals. “We’ve received acknowledgment
from
our chief postal inspector that information from our system was very
helpful
in the actual catching of some potential bad guys,” Gibson says.
   Gillum and Gibson are proud that the postal service received a
letter
of commendation from then-attorney general Janet Reno in 2000 for this
program. The database system the postal service developed with
Informat

Re: [CTRL] 'I Want Bush Girls to Get Into Big Trouble'

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

You have one fine nerve blaming Laura Bush.

I guess everyone in your household was perfect, and
did everything your parents expected.

However, some families simply do not work that way, and
some children simply do not do as expected, or instructed.

It's lamentable that you have no sympathy, I wish for you that
someday when you need it, there will be people there for you,
with some sympathy, and not say to you "cry, and go to jail."



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Let them cry and let them go to jail!! I am TERRIBLY disappointed
> in these immature kids who have not grown up enough to know that
> you can have PLENTY of fun without drinking. SHAME on them!
> And I am terribly disappointed that Laura Bush
> did not raise them to know better than to embarrass their father like
> this. I have NO sympathy. In my father's house WE KNEW that
> we had better not do ANYTHING that would bring disgrace on
> our name-and my father was just a little old coal miner!
> All these kids, and those mentioned below are just undisciplined,
> immature brats.
>
> On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 01:42:52 -0500 Amelia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > {{Not only has Al Gore Jr. been arrested for pot, he was
> > driving in North Carolina 90 MPH in a 30 MPH zone.  The
> > Officer contacted the governor and a deal was made and the
> > Gov. instructed that young Gore was NOT to be tested for drugs
> > nor alcohol.  Discussed on CSpan and various news shows
> > recently.  This in addition to his alcohol episodes in other
> > areas being hushed up.  At least one of the Gore girls has
> > been arrested for marijuana also but not a word in the
> > mainstream media.  Now they go after these girls like sharks!
> > Amazing!  So does this mean we can now openly discuss Tipper's
> > 'nervous breakdown' and subsequent 'hospitalization'? AKE}}
> >
> > With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff
> > For the story behind the story...
> >
> > Friday, June 8, 2001 5:02 p.m. EDT
> > Jenna Booze Buster: 'I Want Bush Girls to Get Into Big
> > Trouble'
> >
> > With first daughter Jenna Bush in tears, the manager at an
> > Austin Tex-Mex restaurant who called 911 on her and her twin
> > sister Barbara told police who responded to the scene: "I want
> > them to get into big trouble," according to a police report on
> > the incident.
> >
> > Austin police were summoned to Chuy's Restaurant on the night
> > of May 29 after manager Mia Lawrence used the police emergency
> > line to report that the 19-year-old twins were drinking
> > maragaritas.
> >
> > According to the police record obtained Friday by the Austin
> > American-Statesman, Officer Clifford Rogers confiscated the ID
> > Jenna Bush presented to Chuy's waitstaff before being served.
> >
> > "She handed it over and started crying," the report indicates.
> >
> > "She then stated that I do not have any idea what it is like
> > to be a college student and not to be able to do anything that
> > other students get to do," Rogers wrote in his report.
> >
> > In a separate report, Sgt. Rodney Keene detailed his
> > conversation with manager Lawrence around the same time.
> > Lawrence insisted on police action.
> >
> > "She said, 'I want them to get into big trouble,'" Sgt. Keene
> > wrote.
> >
> > Keene responded that police would "handle the situation the
> > same way we would for any person under those circumstances,
> > which was to confiscate the fake ID and turn them loose."
> >
> > Lawrence told detectives investigating the incident that she
> > wasn't responsible for notifying the media about the Bush
> > booze bust. "She told me that a regular customer named Owen
> > (no last name available) ... had called the [Austin
> > American-]Statesman," Detective Mark Gil wrote in his report.
> >
> > On Friday, Barbara Bush pleaded no contest to charges of
> > underage drinking, though sister Jenna pleaded not guilty. Her
> > decision to contest charges that she used fake ID to purchase
> > alcohol could expose Chuy's management to further scrutiny as
> > evidence mounts that the Bush twins were singled out.
> >
> > In another development, the office of Austin's City Attorney
> > has deferred a decision on whether to release a tape recording
> > of Lawrence's controversial 911 complaint.
> >
> > On Thursday the city's Law Department faxed news organizations
> > around the country, apprising them of its decision to withold
> > the 911 tape pending the outcome of legal proceedings against
> > the Bush sisters.
> >
> > The recording could shed further light on the question of
> > whether Ms. Lawrence targeted the Bush sisters unfairly.
> >
> > John Steiner, Division Chief at the City Attorney's office
> > would not say Friday when a final decision on the 911 tape
> > would come.
> >
> > "It depends," he told NewsMax.com, suggesting that unless the
> > Austin prosecutors win criminal convictions

Re: [CTRL] 'I Want Bush Girls to Get Into Big Trouble'

[BB]

For a guy who claims Never to have name-called, and refuses to allow
anyone on HIS list to do so, (especially when it is directed at him),
your
calling Amelia 'church lady' SURE sounds like an epithet.
    Let's get real juvenile, and start calling each other
names now.
    Why care about punctuation when you don't care about
your
filthy language?
    Everyone here has heard those words, so your use
of them is
not all that impressive, but we DO NOT need to hear them here.

 

Steve Wingate wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
On 9 Jun 01, at 3:16, Amelia wrote:
> And such language from someone who
> sometimes makes statements purporting to speak for Christians.
I have Never purported to speak for Christians, or even claimed to be
one!
(Naturally you will attempt to use that 'against' me. HA!)  I
think it would be
great if Christ died for my sins, but I am more concerned that he died
at all
considering he was supposedly the Son of God (whoever God is, based
on
your religion I guess). And if you consider the word f**k to be 'such
language', well thenI am sorry I have offended you,  Church Lady!
All I care about is getting the punctuation right.
Steve
ANOMALOUS IMAGES
http://www.anomalous-images.com
http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These
are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups
with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts,
and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives
of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] 'I Want Bush Girls to Get Into Big Trouble'

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Amen, Amelia.  Thanks for stating the obvious, and putting it clearly.

Amelia wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Because people like you make asinine statements as you
> recently did that Chelsea Clinton had no such problems and
> continue to promote YOUR side of every issue in a totally
> subjective manner.  Why don't you show me how to do this which
> you propose because I have never seen you budge an inch from
> your stance that the farther to the left, the better.  Bet if
> I were promoting YOUR viewpoint, you wouldn't be flaming me.
>
> You are one of the most biased posters I have ever seen.  I
> left SNET to get away from your intolerance of the opinions of
> others as did many , many other people and now you think you
> have a right to inflict that on this list, too. Go bash people
> on your own list at which you are all too quick at doing.  No
> one is supposed to DARE disagree with L'il Stevie there.
> Whine, whine, whine.  And such language from someone who
> sometimes makes statements purporting to speak for Christians.
> Mind your own business, Steve!  If you do not like my posts,
> delete them or mark me as a blocked sender for I assure you
> that I am NOT posting them for YOUR benefit but rather for
> someone who might be interested or appreciate the information.
>
> Didn't go to the Grand Canyon this weekend?.  I was wondering
> if you hike all the way there and back, wearing all -manmade
> shoes and eating the local flora along the way in honor of
> your environmentalist beliefs.  Otherwise, it would be very
> hypocritical to bemoan the energy shortage in California
> while contributing to the problem.  Robert Klein said on a
> talk show last week he was just there and the waste of energy
> is appalling.  I would think that you would have better things
> to do with your time than flame other posters but then again,
> judging from your behavior on SNET, that is your favorite
> pastime~controlling what others post.
> ~Amelia~
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Steve Wingate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 1:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] 'I Want Bush Girls to Get Into Big
> Trouble'
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> A big f*g SO WHAT?!! You are still stuck on Democrats vs.
> Republicans. Can't we agree they both do things wrong at
> times, even as
> far as *gasp* breaking the law!
>
> Steve
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>  http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl

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SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] 'I Want Bush Girls to Get Into Big Trouble'

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

My, My, Steve, such ANGER!!!  
Kinda hard to express yourself without resorting to . *

No, YOU'RE stuck on the D v R theme - Sure we can agree that
most people do things wrong, the main point is that you folks that
take such glee in the recent mishaps, are FURIOUS when it's
pointed out the the former occupants had wayward children, and the
press buried it.

I guess it's appropriate for ME to ask "so what?" - why the BIG DEAL
over the 2 "breaking the law" girls.

 How about agreeing the the latest miscreants are getting a lousy deal
from the press, national news, and list R haters, as compared with the
former miscreants?  Can we agree on that?

Who called 911 when the D young'uns got into trouble?
Who then called the local newspaper to ENSURE that it would be
spread nationwide?

No one.  They were exempt.

Calm down, take a deep breath, no need to go nasty on me, I never
was disrespectful to you.  Sorry day when I cannot simply forward
a post without you going ballistic on me.

BB

--

Steve Wingate wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> A big f*g SO WHAT?!! You are still stuck on Democrats vs.
> Republicans. Can't we agree they both do things wrong at times, even as
> far as *gasp* breaking the law!
>
> Steve
>
> On 9 Jun 01, at 1:42, Amelia wrote:
>
> > {{Not only has Al Gore Jr. been arrested for pot, he was
> > driving in North Carolina 90 MPH in a 30 MPH zone.  The
> > Officer contacted the governor and a deal was made and the
> > Gov. instructed that young Gore was NOT to be tested for drugs
> > nor alcohol.  Discussed on CSpan and various news shows
> > recently.  This in addition to his alcohol episodes in other
> > areas being hushed up.  At least one of the Gore girls has
> > been arrested for marijuana also but not a word in the
> > mainstream media.  Now they go after these girls like sharks!
> > Amazing!  So does this mean we can now openly discuss Tipper's
> > 'nervous breakdown' and subsequent 'hospitalization'? AKE}}
> >
> > With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff
> > For the story behind the story...
> >
> > Friday, June 8, 2001 5:02 p.m. EDT
> > Jenna Booze Buster: 'I Want Bush Girls to Get Into Big
> > Trouble'
> >
> > With first daughter Jenna Bush in tears, the manager at an
> > Austin Tex-Mex restaurant who called 911 on her and her twin
> > sister Barbara told police who responded to the scene: "I want
> > them to get into big trouble," according to a police report on
> > the incident.
> >
> > Austin police were summoned to Chuy's Restaurant on the night
> > of May 29 after manager Mia Lawrence used the police emergency
> > line to report that the 19-year-old twins were drinking
> > maragaritas.
> >
> > According to the police record obtained Friday by the Austin
> > American-Statesman, Officer Clifford Rogers confiscated the ID
> > Jenna Bush presented to Chuy's waitstaff before being served.
> >
> > "She handed it over and started crying," the report indicates.
> >
> > "She then stated that I do not have any idea what it is like
> > to be a college student and not to be able to do anything that
> > other students get to do," Rogers wrote in his report.
> >
> > In a separate report, Sgt. Rodney Keene detailed his
> > conversation with manager Lawrence around the same time.
> > Lawrence insisted on police action.
> >
> > "She said, 'I want them to get into big trouble,'" Sgt. Keene
> > wrote.
> >
> > Keene responded that police would "handle the situation the
> > same way we would for any person under those circumstances,
> > which was to confiscate the fake ID and turn them loose."
> >
> > Lawrence told detectives investigating the incident that she
> > wasn't responsible for notifying the media about the Bush
> > booze bust. "She told me that a regular customer named Owen
> > (no last name available) ... had called the [Austin
> > American-]Statesman," Detective Mark Gil wrote in his report.
> >
> > On Friday, Barbara Bush pleaded no contest to charges of
> > underage drinking, though sister Jenna pleaded not guilty. Her
> > decision to contest charges that she used fake ID to purchase
> > alcohol could expose Chuy's management to further scrutiny as
> > evidence mounts that the Bush twins were singled out.
> >
> > In another development, the office of Austin's City Attorney
> > has deferred a decision 

[CTRL] [Fwd: TIME TO FORM A NEW NATION......]

[BB]

->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

Subj:   Time to Form a New Nation   
Date:   6/8/01 1:38:31 AM Central Daylight Time 
From:    [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pro Christo Libertate)
To:    [EMAIL PROTECTED] (President George W. Bush)


Dear Mr. President, 
The subject of this article is a very grave matter.  The paradigm has 
shifted; it's a new ballgame.  Please be advised that many Americans will 
soon be seeking your support on related proposals, and we will do well to 
keep these matters in our daily prayers. 
Thank you, PCL
- 
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=23122 
- 
Wednesday June 6, 2001 
Consider it Said: Time to Form a New Nation 
- 
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com 
Jane Chastain and Linda Bowles, two of the smartest women and best columnists 
on the national scene these days, each wrote separate but equally alarming 
tomes on Tuesday, regarding the progression (or regression, depending on your 
point of view) of American government over the past several decades. 

Essentially, each said America today resembles little to nothing of the 
nation our ancestors founded, then fought and died for - to say nothing of 
the scores who died defending it since then. 

A more subtle point made in both articles was this: If we don't like the form 
modern America has taken, there is little time left for concerned citizens to 
change its direction, lest it become the kind of socialist, authoritarian 
hellhole we supposedly despise and - at least once - ideologically opposed. 

In her column, Chastain, citing data from a new study on the huge growth of 
federal outlays, spending and bureaucracy since the passage of the 16th 
Amendment (authorizing an income tax, in 1913), warned, "it is time this 
nation has a frank and open discussion about the size and cost of government 
before we reach the point of no return." 

Meanwhile, Bowles' column, which decried the rapid encroachment of federal 
control and regulatory authority over private property ownership and rights, 
mentioned that little debate about this dictatorial phenomenon had taken 
place, outside of the localized areas where some of the worst abuses were 
occurring. 

"One hopes this is due to a lack of coverage by the mainstream media, rather 
than a fatalistic American submission to state socialism. One fears that only 
in retrospect, when it is too late to resist, will it be understood that 
freedoms have been irretrievably forfeited and the Constitution irreversibly 
abandoned," Bowles wrote. 

On the 57th anniversary of D-Day, the allied invasion launched during World 
War II to exterminate the Nazi threat to the world, I think it is more than 
appropriate to explore the incredible usurpation of federal power in the past 
several decades and, perhaps most importantly, discuss what we ought to do 
about it. 

There are lots of "mini-issues" floating about, but they basically revolve 
around the general issues of whether our nation, our people, prefer the 
continued encroachment of state (meaning federal) control over every aspect 
of our lives, vs. those who don't. 

In the pro-big government camp are Americans who don't mind sacrificing most 
of their earnings to unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats and unresponsive 
elected officials. 

They don't mind relying on Washington for a host of taxpayer-funded benefits, 
and they are agreeable to the notion that personal responsibility and 
independence should be sacrificed to the power, arbitration and façade of 
"security" offered by most of our leaders. 

To them, there is no limit to Washington's power or reach, save for small, 
specific limits on just a handful of personal liberties. And they view people 
who oppose these ideals as anachronistic, pinhead extremists who are too dumb 
and unsophisticated to know what's good for them. 

On the other side is the small government camp, inhabited by people who 
believe in our Constitution, verbatim, and who hold personal liberty and 
responsibility so dear that they dare to expect others to hold similar views. 

They abhor all but the most limited, specific and narrowly defined forms of 
taxation because they believe their money belongs to them, and that the 
federal government only needs enough funding to perform its few, narrowly 
defined, constitutional duties. 

These folks hate waste, fraud and abuse, would rather seek a hand-up from a 
friend or church than a hand-out from the government, and believe Washington 
has proven it cannot solve our problems, try as it may. 

They hate regulations, unfunded mandates, interference in personal affairs 
and subjugation of constitutional liberties. They see the huge growth of the 
federal government as an impetus towards global imperialism, 
authoritarianism, and eventual dictatorship. 

In sho

Re: [CTRL] Fla. Vote Rife With Disparities, Study Says

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Steve, let me preface this by saying I favor neither the democrat nor
republican party - I've taken on issues because I felt unfairness in some
of the attacks, but I am not a partisan republican. That having been typed,
I must point out the the rest of us look at the doneybrook going on in
California's power generation and feel things have gotten pretty bad there
also.

Bill

Steve Wingate wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> One reason is because Florida did not play such a pivotal role in the
> election of President. Another is because I was not aware how bad things
> had gotten in Florida under Republican leadership, living in Democratic
> California. :)
>
> Steeve
>
> On 6 Jun 01, at 22:37, BB wrote:
>
> > Why didn't you who are outraged at Florida's voting procedures
> > say something in all the previous years?
>
> ANOMALOUS IMAGES AND UFO FILES
> http://www.anomalous-images.com
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
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> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
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Re: [CTRL] Fla. Vote Rife With Disparities, Study Says

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Boy, you DO make leaps in logic.
I guess I'll have to spell out my point a little HARDER---

Why didn't you who are outraged at Florida's voting procedures
say something in all the previous years?

Steve Wingate wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> If you do not understand the significance of Florida in this particular election
> then you need to think a little harder
>
> On 6 Jun 01, at 20:57, BB wrote:
>
> > It's funny - 150 years of elections, and no one ever gave a hoot about
> > Florida before  but now that it's come down to Florida in the election,
> > why...  it is the most corrupt and backward voting state in the Union.
> >
> > Why?  Because the Washington  POST  says so.
>
> ANOMALOUS IMAGES AND UFO FILES
> http://www.anomalous-images.com
>
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> ==
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> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
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Re: [CTRL] rWhite House property destruction by departingClintonstaffers

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Is it not possible that there WERE NO photographs?

Is there NEVER any crime unless a pototgraph of it exists?

The Washington POST seems to think the vandalism occurred --
the Same POST that has testified to the awful voting procedures
in Florida.

And, I would not consider the WP a member of right-wing,
pro Republican media --  would you?

BB

Steve Widget wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Yes, BB I read the article the first time. Like I said before, why no
> photographs? All we have is a few anonymous sources reported on by right
> wing pro-Republican media.
>
> Steve
>

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Re: [CTRL] Fla. Vote Rife With Disparities, Study Says

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

It's funny - 150 years of elections, and no one ever gave a hoot about
Florida before  but now that it's come down to Florida in the election,
why...  it is the most corrupt and backward voting state in the Union.

Why?  Because the Washington  POST  says so.

radman wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Fla. Vote Rife With Disparities, Study Says
>

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
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==
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Re: [CTRL] rWhite House property destruction by departing Clintonstaffers

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Steve Wingate wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> There has not been a single shred of factual evidence to support these
> allegations. Not a single photograph, nothing but claims by certain Bush
> officials of questionable integrity and motivation.
>
> Why no evidence? It did not happen anywhere close to the extent claimed.
>
> Steve
>

CHANGING OF THE GUARD
Post confirms earlier
WND vandalism account
White House property destruction by departing Clinton staffers


© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com


The Washington Post's current stories detailing destruction of
White House property by outgoing Clinton staffers confirms the
detailed, exclusive reporting done by WorldNetDaily.com last
January.

When vandalism reports surfaced upon George W. Bush's move
into the White House, initial official outrage was quickly
doused by the newly inaugurated president's stated desire to
"change the tone in Washington."

However, Rep. Bob Barr, R-Ga., a leader in the move to impeach
Clinton, asked the General Accounting Office to check into the
matter. In an April 27 letter, the GAO told Barr that there
was "no record of damage that may have been deliberately
caused by the Clinton administration." That is, the White
House had not maintained a written accounting of any damage.

The matter seemed dead and buried.

However, apparently unable to leave well enough alone,
Democrats like Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., seized upon the
GAO report as vindication of Clinton and evidence that the
Bush people had been fabricating their initial vandalism
reports - and even demanded an apology from Bush.

Pushed against the wall, the Bush White House responded by
doing what it refrained from doing last January - and issued
late last week an extensive list of damage done by outgoing
Clinton staffers. The list includes obscene graffiti in six
offices, a 20-inch-wide presidential seal ripped off a wall,
10 sliced telephone lines and 100 inoperable computer
keyboards, according to the Washington Post.

Jake Siewert, Clinton's last presidential press secretary,
called the White House's actions "incredibly infuriating,"
reports the Post.

'We tried to be gracious'

"Most of the incidents described yesterday by White House
press secretary Ari Fleischer," said the Post, "were said to
have occurred in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building,
adjacent to the White House. Pornographic or obscene greetings
were left on 15 telephone lines in the offices of the vice
president and White House counsel and in the scheduling and
advance offices, Fleischer said. As a precaution, all phones
were disabled and reprogrammed, he said."

"The details were provided to The Washington Post after
several days of inquiries about the degree of White House
cooperation with the GAO, the investigative arm of Congress,"
reported the Post.

White House officials added that they did not release the
information sooner because of Bush's desire to "move forward
and not live in the past," said the Post.

But in the face of accusations the White House fabricated the
tales of vandalism, Fleischer says the Bush team was forced to
respond.

"The White House will defend itself and the career employees,"
Fleischer said, according to the Post account. "We tried to be
gracious, but the last administration would not take
graciousness. By getting the information out, we hope to put
an end to this, so everyone can go on with the policy and
business of the government."

Sunday's Washington Post story confirms -- five months
later -- WND's earlier investigative reporting, based on
knowledgeable sources such as career White House computer
technicians, on exactly what was damaged in the White House by
departing Clinton staffers.

Here are a few comparisons:

Post (June 3, 2001): "Fleischer said that workers were able to
affix new 'W' caps to many computers but that 100 keyboards
had to be replaced."

WND (Jan. 26, 2001): "Based on a preliminary survey, an
estimated 50 to 60 computer keyboards were actually destroyed,
and not just temporarily disabled as originally believed,
after outgoing aides removed the plastic key with the letter
'W' -- President Bush's new famous middle initial.

"'We'll actually have to replace the whole keyboards, because
they also gouged out the contacts underneath (the plastic
keys),' said a White House computer technician in an exclusive
interview with WorldNetDaily."

Post: "Fleischer also said five brass nameplates bearing the
presidential seal were missing in the Eisenhower building [the
Old Executive Office Building]."

WND: "Outgoing staffers pried several official U.S. emblems,
about the size of 50-cent coins, from doors in the Old
Executive Office Building, according to a General Services
Administration worker involved in the maintenance of White
House offices."

Post: "White House officials yesterday released a list of
damage ... including ... 10 sliced telephone lines ... ."

WND: "Former White House aides also cut telephone lines
throughout the White Hous

[CTRL] [Fwd: Student removed from class because of drawings]

[BB]

How precious that the bureaucratic numbskulls have an 11 year old
hauled off in handcuffs  --  for a DRAWING!!!  What about the freedom
of speech that these brain-dead, liberal creeps keep squawking about??

Perversions of religious icons entrenched in filth are lovingly
protected
by these oh-so-modern and "accepting" leftists - as long as the
subject
tends to diminish and pervert those segments of our civilization which

are considered good, and clean.  But NOT the right of a boy to draw
an image of a GUN!  No first amendment rights there - because it goes
against the left-wing, anti-Constitution, NWO, one world agenda of the

controlling bureaucrats. UN gun registration, control, and
confiscation
is a primary goal right now.

Things like this are happening at an ever-increasing rate, and the
press
and media tend to accept it as normal, and even desirable.
The "zero-tolerance" lunacy has become the new Mantra of the
educational bureaucracy.  No pictures.  No finger-pointing.
No kisses on the cheek by a 6 year old boy to a 6 year old girl.  That

will not be tolerated.  Bureaucracy-generated sexual courses of every
description as well as free artifacts, however, are acceptable.

Notice that in the following  ..."after classmates told school
officials
about the drawings."
"There were some drawings that were confiscated by the teacher,"

Classmates turned the criminal in.  Fine. Now we have citizens,
neighbors,
CHILDREN encouraged to turn in to "authorities" anyone who violates
the
"zero-tolerance" mandate.  Sound familiar?  Germany, 1930's?  Their
major
thrust was total gun confiscation, also.

Notice that the teacher "confiscated" the drawings.  Obviously,
important evidence, for the trial.

WHERE did "zero tolerance" come from?  Why have we let it become
an entrenched foundation of all school life, reaching its slimy roots
down to
the first grade and kindergarten?

Americans, we are fast asleep  --  changes to our basic lifestyle
and
beliefs are occurring at an ever-increasing rate.  Freedoms of every
description are being curtailed as though part of an avalanche.
What is happening to our beloved country, and why are so few noticing?

Read the Bill of Rights, the first 10 amendments to the
Constitution, and
see how many of them have been the target of the Legislative, the
Judicial,
the press, the media, and the educational cartel.



AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

AMENDMENT I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise
thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the
right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and
bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

AMENDMENT III

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without
the consent of the Owner, nor in
time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

AMENDMENT IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,
and effects, against unreasonable
searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall
issue, but upon probable cause,
supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the
place to be searched, and the persons or
things to be seized.

AMENDMENT V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous
crime, unless on a presentment or
indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or
naval forces, or in the Militia, when in
actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person
be subject for the same offence to be
twice put in jeopardy of life or limb, nor shall be compelled in any
criminal case to be a witness against
himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due
process of law; nor shall private property
be taken for public use without just compensation.

AMENDMENT VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a
speedy and public trial, by an impartial
jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been
committed, which district shall have been
previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and
cause of the accusation; to be
confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process
for obtaining witnesses in his
favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

AMENDMENT VII

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed
twenty dollars, the right of trial by
jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury shall be
otherwise re-examined in any Court of the
United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

AMENDMENT VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor
cruel and unusual punishments
inflicted.

AMENDMENT IX

The enumeration in the C

[CTRL] [Fwd: Knock Daylights Out of UN, Says U.S. Gun Dean]

[BB]

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Title: Knock Daylights Out of UN, Says U.S. Gun Dean




 
Knock Daylights Out of UN, Says U.S. Gun Dean
U.S. Newswire
1 Jun 17:42
Knock Daylights Out Of UN, Says U.S. Gun Dean
To: National Desk
Contact: John Snyder of Citizens Committee for the Right to
Keep and Bear Arms, 202-326-5259 or 703-418-0849
WASHINGTON, June 1 /U.S. Newswire/ -- "It's about time we
knocked the living daylights out of the United Nations," John
Michael Snyder, public affairs director of the Citizens
Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, said here today.
Snyder condemned yesterday's UN General Assembly treaty vote
calling on all nations to adopt firearm registration and other
gun control laws. He said, "the treaty action is a direct and
insulting attack on the individual Second Amendment civil right
of law-abiding American citizens to keep and bear arms."
He added that, "apparently, it wasn't enough for these
globalists to insult our country by throwing us off the UN's
so-called Human Rights Commission in favor of dictatorships such
as Sudan, Libya, China and Cuba. Now these characters are
trying to add insult to injury, knifing our sovereignty in the
process.
"Congress should cut off the U.S. money spigot unless the UN
mends its ways. Why should U.S. taxpayers' dollars go to
support these anti-American shenanigans? No way!"
Snyder, named "dean of gun lobbyists" by national media
outlets, for the last several years has submitted a resolution
on the United Nations to the Gun Rights Policy Conference. Each
submission has been approved by unanimous vote.
The resolution notes that the right to keep and bear arms "is
an object of attack by United Nations personnel and entities,
such as the United Nations Panel of Experts on Small Arms." It
notes further that the panel "recommends that nation states,
including the United States of America, impose on their citizens
laws, regulations and administrative procedures inimical to the
right to keep and bear arms, such as licensing requirements on
all civilian possession of small arms and the specification of
arms permitted for civilian possession."
The resolution provides that, "henceforth it should be the
policy of the United States of America that the government of
the United States of America, including any of its entities or
subdivisions, provide no funds or support of any kind to the
United Nations or to any of its entities or subdivisions unless
and until it and all of its entities and subdivisions cease
support for policies or activities inimical to the traditional,
individual right of law-abiding American citizens to keep and
bear arms, including, but not limited to, those specific
policies enumerated in this resolution."
 
KEYWORDS:
INTERNATIONAL, GUNS/FIREARMS, POLICY
-0-
/U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/
06/01 17:42
Copyright 2001, U.S. Newswire

Re: [CTRL] FBI sharpshooter may be tried BREAKING NEWS

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Unfortunately, the current pres and his father are both globalists.

Amelia wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Amazing what can happen when the Globalists are removed from
> the White House and Reno is no longer aiding and abetting in
> crimes against the citizenry.
> ~Amelia~
>
> FBI sharpshooter may be tried
>
> Agent in 1992 Ruby Ridge killing could face charges
>
> ASSOCIATED PRESS
>
> SAN FRANCISCO, June 5 - A federal appeals court said Tuesday
> that an FBI sharpshooter may be tried for his role in the 1992
> Ruby Ridge standoff and death of Vicki Weaver. The wife of
> white separatist Randy Weaver was shot and killed during the
> incident.
>
>  THE DECISION by an 11-judge panel in San Francisco
> reverses a ruling by a three-judge panel from the same court.
> It ruled last year that state prosecutors could not try the
> agent, Lon Horiuchi, for "actions taken in pursuit of his
> duties as a federal law enforcement officer."
>
>This is a developing story and will be updated.
> Cover Page
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
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> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
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credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] More of Gay Pride

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Censorship? Not me, ever...  I'm the person complaining that
I cannot get 2 messages posted to this list for 4 days now.

A test message before and after posts OK, but there's
something magic in the wording of these 2 texts which
someone or something will not allow through.

I am being censored.

Bill

YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, BB wrote:
> >It scares me that people like you are allowed to post to
> >a public forum...
>
> It scares me that people like you advocate censorship...
>
> June
>

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Om

Re: [CTRL] More of Gay Pride

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

It scares me that people like you are allowed to post to
a public forum...

Nate Fischer wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Aleisha,
>
> I am getting very frustrated with your lack of intelligence again.
>
> A:  Sodomites are not exclusively homosexuals.  Look it up in the 
>dictionary
> before you use it.  Your misuse of the term shows your lack of intelligence.
>
> B:  The below document is just pure filth.  It is a piece of literature 
>from
> the religious right included as a scare tactic to corporation not to
> withdraw support from the Boy Scouts.  I again tell you that not all
> pedophiles are exclusively homosexuals, nor is there a large percentage of
> them.  It scares me that there are people who actually believe this stuff
> out there in the world.
>

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Om

[CTRL] Reply to an Amelia Basher

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

So, you're enough of an intelligentsia to KNOW that another needs
"pshychological help."

You "believe" she is holed up, in a corner, and know of her lifestyle.
Maybe, using your magnificent insight, you can tell us all just HOW,
simultaneously, ALL of these "gay" programs, financial support,
"governor's task forces", blind eyes by teachers and administrations,
gay clubs, cirricula, hatred of straights, major corporation withdrawal
of financial support for boy scouts and other straight groups, parades,
gay pride rodeos, came suddenly into being. Just happenstance, perhaps?

Just normal consequences of living? No outside influence, no support,
it JUST HAPPENED? No AGENDA on the part of any controlling entity?
We're psychotic because we see what we see?  Within 2 years, EVERY
TV sitcom has it's one or more gay plots and  major characters...
What are you, NUTS??

YOU, my strange one, are either blind, or a very upset one of them
posting flames at someone you know absolutely nothing about,
or MOST LIKELY a typical, rude abusive DISRUPTER to this group.

I suspect the latter.  You're not the first, probably not the last, but
your intent and methods are typical.  Maybe you'd care to offer an
explanation as to why no crimes by gays against straights make it into
the newspapers.  Just happened, I guess. Normal roll of the dice.
No influence anywhere.


And you, my strange one, appear far more psycho than the person
you railed against. From your writings, it would appear that YOU are
the one who is mentally unstable.

Knock off your gay agenda - I don't want to see it.  Blast yourself into
your own past.  There's a fine bunch of folks here who could do without
your tirades regarding anyone's opinions of the gay deluge all around us,
but speaking for me, I'd like to see you put an egg in your shoe, and beat it!

You ARE the weakest link! c

Good bye..



Nate Fischer wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Amelia, you need to seek pshychological help.  I believe that you are holed
> up in a ball in the corner with fear that homosexuals are outside your door
> waiting to "sanitize" your clearly missionary lifestyle.
>
> You are truly mentally unstable.
>
> -

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Mixed dancing caused disaster (fwd)

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Sounds like a line directly out of Fiddler on the Roof!!!



Yardbird wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Rabbi: Mixed dancing caused Versailles disaster
>
> http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/05/31/LatestNews/LatestNews.27273.html
>
> The collapse of the Versailles banquet hall last Thursday night was caused
> by men and women dancing together, Rabbi Reuven Levy, who officiated over
> the marriage of Keren and Asi Dror, said today.
>
> According to Army Radio, Levy said that every dance between an unmarried
> man and woman is a sexual indiscretion punishable by death.
>
> Twenty-three people were killed and over 300 injured in the worst building
> disaster in Israeli history.
>
> Experts investigating the Versailles wedding hall disaster have ruled out
> the theory widely reported in the media that supporting walls had been
> removed from the hall's second floor, leading to the catastrophic
> collapse.
>
> The Jerusalem Post obtained documents written by city engineer Uri
> Sheetrit, as well as the top engineer of the city's licensing department,
> Micha Ben-Nun, which state that tests conducted at the site have proved
> that "no constructive elements were removed from the hall prior to its
> collapse."
>
> Meanwhile, while a government-appointed state commission of inquiry
> regarding building and construction safety was being established
> yesterday, the Jerusalem police continued to arrest and remand suspects
> involved in the Versailles case.
>
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> ==
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>
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> Om

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Bush daughter allegedly tried to buy alcohol

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

I have tried to repost the article you mentioned, but 3 times now in
the last 2 days it has been gobbled up and WILL NOT post on CTRL.
BB

YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On Thu, 31 May 2001, BB wrote:
> >To cluck cluck gossip over a 19 year old having a beer is a ridiculous
> >waste of time, effort, net space and national attention.  Better to be
> >paying attention to the enemy.  Better to examine some real issues.
>
> I think a symptom of the 'real issues' is the question why the press
> treated Chelsea Clinton with kid gloves, to the point where even the
> editor of her college newspaper wasn't allowed to write about her, but
> the Bush daughters are fair game.
>
> There was a news article within the past year reporting a drinking spree
> the underaged Ms. C. Clinton partook in with some friends, but the story
> disappeared quickly.  One should be asking why the media follows this
> double standard...if negative coverage of the First Daughter of one
> administration was verboten, why is it okay for another administration?
>
> June
>
> Check out Alternative Kite radio:  http://www.live365.com/stations/242153
>
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> ==
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>
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Om

[CTRL] Big Brother

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Someone is censoring messages to the CTRL list.

Anyone else having problems?

BB

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Om

[CTRL] test

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

test

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Bush daughter allegedly tried to buy alcohol

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Do not accept as a given that a CRIME was committed.

An allegation was made.

**

Steve Wingate wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On 31 May 01, at 23:21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > That's right. Jenna commited a crime and we all know that
> > Bill Clinton is a saint.
>
> Oh, I thought the debate was about the media's reporting on the Bush
> daughters vs. Chelsea Clinton. Funny me. :)
>
> Steve
>
> ANOMALOUS IMAGES AND UFO FILES
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>
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Bush daughter allegedly tried to buy alcohol

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Should BE NO debate  --  grown men discussion a swig of beer
by a 19 year old girl.  Great.



Steve Wingate wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On 31 May 01, at 23:21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > That's right. Jenna commited a crime and we all know that
> > Bill Clinton is a saint.
>
> Oh, I thought the debate was about the media's reporting on the Bush
> daughters vs. Chelsea Clinton. Funny me. :)
>
> Steve
>
> ANOMALOUS IMAGES AND UFO FILES
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>
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>
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Re: [CTRL] Bush daughter allegedly tried to buy alcohol

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

It  IS irrelevant as far as this venue is concerned  --  you cannot
think of anyone in the USA who has committed a greater crime???

To cluck cluck gossip over a 19 year old having a beer is a ridiculous
waste of time, effort, net space and national attention.  Better to be
paying attention to the enemy.  Better to examine some real issues.

BB

Steve Wingate wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On 31 May 01, at 9:20, Dale Stonehouse wrote:
>
> > Jenna's personal life is as irrelevant as Bill Clinton's.
>
> It is not irrelevant if she commits a crime, which she apparently has on
> more than one occasion.
>
> Steve
>
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>
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>
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Re: [CTRL] Bush daughter allegedly tried to buy alcohol

[BB]

Yes, you BETTER  mean "Duh!" because you are the epitome.
You're not doing your homework, and in the process are either
showing your ignorance, or refusing to acknowledge knowing
the truth and therefore lying.
    Tell me that you didn't see printed reports of a
near drunken
rout about 3 or 4 weeks ago, wherein your princess had to be
hauled out of self-instigated harm's way be the SS boys.
 
    I write a reasonable question, and you burst forward
with the
WISE MOUTH.  Wake up, grow up, and civilize up a little.
    And your cutesy-poo attempt at perverted English
is less than juvenile.
I mean, "Childish!"

MIKE SPITZER wrote:

Maybe cuz Chelsea is/was
not the politically-incorrect, fake-I.D. passing, super freaky party girl
like the latter has been *proven* to be lately!?!  "Might-could" [as
they say in Tejas] that be it..., maybe?!?  Ya think? I
mean, "Duh!"  ===
 
Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT  
FROM THE DESK OF:
*Michael Spitzer*    <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends
=======
 

- Original Message -

From:
BB

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:23
PM

Subject: Re: [CTRL] Bush daughter
allegedly tried to buy alcohol
 Chelsea was off limits.  Why not Jenna?
 

Re: [CTRL] Bush daughter allegedly tried to buy alcohol

[BB]

Chelsea was off limits.  Why not Jenna?
 
 

[CTRL] [Fwd: Close the Gun Show Loophole?]

[BB]

->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

  Close the Gun Show Loophole?

by Jeff Elkins

http://www.lewrockwell.com/elkins/elkins16.html


Have you ever been to a weekend gun show?

The ones I’ve attended have a county fair atmosphere, lacking only
Ferris wheels and 4H farm animals on display – otherwise, they have the
cotton candy, hot dogs, and large crowds required for such an event.
They are largely family affairs as well. It’s not uncommon to see the
picnic tables scattered throughout the area where I attend filled with
families enjoying a basket of home-made goodies packed by Mom for the
outing, little tykes chasing each other playing tag, and Dad discussing
the available bargains for sale.

Federally licensed firearms dealers are actually a minority of the
vendors on hand. In addition to firearms, you’ll see tee-shirts, books,
reloading supplies, knives, balloons, hunting supplies, foods, and many
other various and sundry items for sale as well. Firearms dealers are
unfortunately a diminishing breed, mainly due to the onerous constraints
placed on them by government regulations.

You’ll also occasionally see a humble table with a private individual
selling his gun collection, or perhaps even a widow selling her deceased
husband’s hunting rifle and bedside pistol.

It’s a scene that could have well been the subject of a Norman Rockwell
painting, but the picture drawn by our State/Media opinion conglomerate
is considerably uglier.

What they would have you believe is that these bucolic slices of
Americana are instead brooding centers of violence and evil, haunted by
criminals and misfits; armed militia dressed in camouflage, shopping for
tools to assist in government overthrow; and furtive thugs seeking
weapons denied them by a benevolent State.

The venerable weekend gun show is under an assault so grave I doubt it
will survive much longer. The newest attack comes in the form of a
Senate bill introduced by champions of freedom, Senators John McCain and
Joseph Lieberman.

"With rights come responsibilities…. Our bill will stop criminals from
evading background checks at guns shows. Despite the tragic lessons we
have learned, it is still far too easy for a convicted felon to buy
firearms at a gun show. We also feel that this is a reasonable approach
to the gun show loophole. This is clearly, clearly something that must
be closed if we are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals,"
said John McCain (R-Ariz.).

"We all agree that the laws on the books should be enforced and we all
agree that convicted felons shouldn’t be able to get guns. The bill we
are introducing today would write both of those principles into law.
There is nothing in this proposal that compromises at all the rights of
law-abiding citizens to buy and possess firearms. We have the right to
own guns, but we have the responsibility not to sell guns to criminals,"
said Joseph Lieberman (D-Conn.).

The McCain-Lieberman bill requires background checks on all firearms
transactions at any public event, gun show, or otherwise, where a
minimum of 75 guns are available for sale. The bill, co-sponsored by
Senators Mike DeWine (R-Ohio) and Charles Schumer (D-NY) would also
impose three-day waiting periods on gun show purchases to allow time for
background checks.

The assault on gun shows is twofold in nature. Firearms are truly
implements of freedom, anywhere they are celebrated is sufficient cause
for loathing and hatred by agents of the State; hence gun shows are a
priori, evil gatherings that must be opposed, demonized, and eventually
outlawed.

More insidious, the demonization of gun shows hides two agenda items
dear to the hearts of all statists: the eventual outlawing by federal
law of private weapons transfers between individuals at any time and the
holy grail of gun-grabbers: a federal registry containing details on all
weapons ownership by law-abiding citizens.

Unfortunately, private transfer of firearms are already forbidden in
several states. In those locales you can no longer easily leave a valued
hunting rifle to a favorite nephew in your will; instead the weapon must
pass through the hands of a federal firearms licensee who will perform
the requisite background check; then, if the state approves, with
payment of a fee, that nephew can take possession of the rifle.

The weapon is now de facto registered; it’s location is on file in
paperwork maintained by the FFL who processed the transfer, open for
examination by BATF agents at any time, and ready for eventual entry
into the upcoming federal database of gun owners.

Federalization of this blatantly unconstitutional practice will only
speed the day when you will no longer be able to own a weapon. Like all
the other "common sense" gun laws, both those on the books and those
proposed, the only purpose of the McCain-Lieberman bill is to make you a
slave.

May 26, 2001



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Re: [CTRL] More Zero Tolerance Stupidity

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

The web site itself does not accept comments,
but does list the following email addresses:

Mr. Fred Bode, Principal
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Mrs. Nancy Durham, A.P.C.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Mr. Howard Wendland, A.P.A.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Mr. James Nassiff, A.P.A.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Mr. Ted Ferreira, Director, Athletics/Activities
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Freedom Page wrote:

>  Friends,
>
> Interesting, you can e-mail the school through their web site which
> is linked at the bottom of the article. Please note that I have not
> personally verified this story but did verify the school web site.
>

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] [Fwd: More Zero Tolerance Stupidity]

[BB]

First the election, now THIS  --  What's in Florida's water??


ZERO TOLERANCE  --  What a wonderful excuse for empty headed
idiots entrenched in the school system authoritarian bureaucracy,
to invoke when practicing their idiotic tirades.  They would never

abide the Ten Commandments, but daily mandate from on high and
invoke the "zero tolerance" mantra.

I cannot help but wonder with WHAT do these anti-freedom,
socialist numbskulls, "ON CAMPUS", eat their lunch?

For that matter, with what do the students eat THEIR lunch??

Let's make sure I have my facts correct  --  a knife in a car in
the
parking lot is reason for arrest and jail for an 18 year old girl,
but
one in the hand of every person in the cafeteria is OK??

THIS goes a long way in explaining why the country is in the shape

that it is in.

And to top it off, if this is not enough to raise your blood
pressure to
about 375,  is Gestapo "Officer Braveheart's" wise remark that:

"This young lady made a bad choice," Byrus said. "But, the statute
says
what she did meets the probable cause requirements for an arrest."

Fine.  Admirable.

How refreshing it would have been had he exercised perhaps 10 of
his IQ
points and simply said, "Folks, this was an oversight - an error -
leave it go."

I ALSO wonder what "bad choices" would be discovered in the cars
of the
staff of Clunko High, and, for that matter, the police car and
personal car
of the arresting "officers?"



Friends,

Interesting, you can e-mail the school through their web site which is
linked at the bottom of the article. Please note that I have not
personally verified this story but did verify the school web site.

Jim Hardin

The Freedom Page
http://www.freedompage.ws
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From: margi crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Subject: [piml] Zero tolerance 

WHEN WILL WE STOP THIS ZERO TOLERANCE IDIOCY?

The young lady on the left is Lindsay Brown. You can see that she’s not too happy. So, why isn’t Lindsay happy? She’s getting ready to graduate from Estero High School in a few weeks. 

What’s more, she’ll be wearing a gold tassel on her graduation gown, a tassel which honor’s her position as a National Merit Scholar. After summer vacation Lindsay will start at Florida Gulf Coast University where she was awarded an academic scholarship.

Well, not really. Yes, she’s a National Merit Scholar. Yes, she has an academic scholarship. But she won’t be wearing that gold tassel. She won’t even be wearing the graduation gown. 

Lindsay, you see, is our latest victim of the hysterical and intellectually vapid zero tolerance crap that permeates our insipid government schools across the nation.

Last weekend Lindsay Brown moved some of her belongings to her new apartment. During the move a kitchen knife ­ not a steak knife, not a butcher knife ­ just a simple little kitchen knife fell out of a box and became wedged under the front passenger seat.

When Lindsay drove that car to school on Monday the knife was spotted by a security officer. Lindsay was arrested and taken to jail. Taken to jail because there was a kitchen knife in her car. 

The local Sheriff’s office considered the presence of this kitchen knife to constitute probable cause to believe that Lindsay intended to use this knife as a weapon to hurt someone.

Lindsay Brown spent nine hours in jail. NINE HOURS! Nine hours in the custody of the state because of a kitchen knife in the car! Now she won’t get to graduate with her friends. She won’t go to the Senior class breakfast. She won’t get to go to the yearbook party. Yeah, she’ll get her diploma ­ and a record -- a record for bringing a “dangerous weapon” onto school property.

This is nothing less than mindless hysteria. The leftist mania over guns has brought us to the point where common sense is virtually lacking in the operation of our government schools.

A kitchen knife is a weapon? Consider this. If you had to retrieve a weapon from your car, which would you chose? A kitchen knife or the jack handle? How about the tire iron? Every single car in that parking lot at Estero High School has a tire iron. They have transmission dip sticks that could be used as swords. They have spark plug wires that could be used as garrotes. The car itself could be used to mow down a fellow student.Mindless, abject stupidity!

Aren’t we supposed to be trying to teach our kids how to think rationally? Is there anything rational about this zero-tolerance nonsense?

Lindsay is just one in a long list of victims of these idiotic zero-tolerance policies.

There was that Eagle Scout in Florida. Remember him? He had a Scout meeting one night at which he taught young Boy Scouts the proper handling of a hatchet. The hatchet was in the trunk of his car, along with the rest of his Scouting gea

[CTRL] [Fwd: Fort Myers Honor Student Arrested Under Zero-Tolerance Policy]

[BB]

->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

Here we go again...


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,25425,00.html


Fort Myers Honor Student Arrested Under Zero-Tolerance Policy

 Tuesday, May 22, 2001

 [Image]

 [Image] Email this Article

 FORT MYERS, Fla.  — A National Merit Scholar was sent to
 jail and will miss graduation after a kitchen knife was
 found in her car and officials invoked a policy that
 forbids weapons on campus.

Lindsay Brown, an 18-year-old senior at Estero High School, spent Monday
in jail on a felony charge of possession of a weapon on school property
and suspended for five days.

Officials saw the knife on the floor of the passenger's side of Brown's
car while she was in the school, a report said.

Brown will take her final exams Wednesday and will most likely get her
diploma, but she will miss graduation activities and the May 29
commencement.

"They're taking away my memories," Brown said, as she walked out of the
Lee County Jail on Monday afternoon after posting $2,500 bail.

"I'm so angry, I won't get to graduate with my friends because of a
stupid kitchen knife."

The knife, which has a 5-inch blade, had been left in the car after
Brown moved some possessions over the weekend, she said.

Brown said she didn't know it was there until school security and Lee
County sheriff's Corporal John Scheall pointed it out to her.

Her family claims the arrest is a case of political correctness run
amok.

"Lindsay is a good kid," said her mother Melissa Ashworth, who spent
Monday trying to free her daughter from jail. "The punishment is too
harsh; she didn't even know the knife was there."

Brown is scheduled to return to court June 22. Brown and her parents
hope the arrest will not harm her academic scholarship to Florida Gulf
Coast University.

Sheriff Lt. Bill Byrus said he sympathizes with Brown, but said the
arrest is not up to the discretion of the officer or based on the
student's behavior record.

"This young lady made a bad choice," Byrus said. "But, the statute says
what she did meets the probable cause requirements for an arrest.

Lisa Luciani, a school district spokeswoman, said the district is still
reviewing the arrest.

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[CTRL] [Fwd: Little Rock to Seize Man's Property for Clinton Library]

[BB]

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,25398,00.html

This guy just wont go away.
Mark

Little Rock to Seize Man's Property for Clinton Library

 Tuesday, May 22, 2001

 [Image]

 [Image]Email this Article

 LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — The city defended its plan Monday to
 seize land from a private property owner for President
 Clinton's presidential library.

Eugene Pfeifer III has asked the Arkansas Court of Appeals to overturn a
lower court ruling allowing the city to take his 2.9 acres, based on a
state law that allows the city to take land from property owners for
public parks.

Pfeifer argues that the 27.7-acre Clinton library site does not fit the
definition of a public park, so the city has no right to his land.

On Monday, the city of Little Rock filed a motion with the court arguing
that the definition does apply.

"For several years, the city has talked about a chain of parks along the
Arkansas River," city attorney Tom Carpenter wrote.



The city has offered $400,000 for Pfeifer's property

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[CTRL] YOUR PRIVACY

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

Since your President has ALLOWED those changes regarding your
private medical information, written and submitted in the last days of

the previous regime, I'm seeing a flurry of activity in mail
coming to me from all sorts of providers, which attempt to
"assure" me regarding THEIR privacy policy concerning information
about ME.  About an hour's worth of tiny print.

I suggest each of you tell these Big Brothers exactly what YOU
feel about your own privacy.

My outgoing letters read:

Dear Sirs:

I am in receipt of your policy regarding my privacy.
Perhaps mine will take a shorter time to read, and be
more easily understood:

YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO DIVULGE ANY INFORMATION,
ABOUT ME, TO ANYONE, OR ANY COMPANY,
AT ANY TIME,
FOR ANY REASON,
EVER.

Sincerely,

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl

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Om

[CTRL] [Fwd: Fw: (Lost Child)]

[BB]

I don't forward many of the messages I receive, but this one got to me.
The WAL-MART procedures are impressive.Hopefully, many other retail
stores will adopt them.   Perhaps we should be asking the merchants we deal
with what they do when a child is missing.
>
>
>Subject: (Lost child)
>A friend of mine sent this to me today and I want to send it on to you.
>Although I don't have little children that are liable to get lost, I do have
>grandchildren and great grandchildren whom I love dearly.   This is a great
>
Dottie/Dorothy
>
>- Original Message -
>
>>
 Wanted to share  something that happened today
 while  shopping at Sam's Club. A mother was leaning
 over looking for meat and turned around to find
 her 4 yr. old daughter was missing. I was standing there
 right beside her, and she was calling her daughter
 with no luck. I asked a man who worked at  Sam's to
 announce it over the loud speaker  for Katie. He
 did, and let me say he  immediately walked right past me
 when I  asked and went to a pole where there was a
  phone. He made an announcement for all the doors
 and gates to be locked, a code something. So they
 locked all the doors at once. This took all of 3 minutes
 after I asked the guy to do this. They  found the
 little girl 5 minutes later in a  bathroom stall.
 Her head was half shaved,  and she was dressed in her
 underwear with  a bag of clothes, a razor, and wig
 sitting  on the floor beside her to make her look
  different. Whoever this person was, took the
 little girl, brought her into the bathroom, shaved half
 her head, and undressed her in a matter of less than
 10 minutes. This makes me shake to no end. Please
 keep a close eye on your kids when in big  places where
 it's easy for you to get  separated. It only took a few
 minutes to  do all of that-another 5 minutes and
 she  would have been out the door. I am still in shock
 that some sick person could do this, let alone in a
 matter of minutes. The days are over when our little ones
 could run rampant all over the place and  nothing
 worse would happen then them  annoying people. The little
 girl is fine.  Thank God for fast workers who
 didn't take  any chances.

 BE SURE TO FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE, SO THEY KNOW
 JUST HOW SICK PEOPLE ARE OUT THERE!!! (This happened at
 the Sam's Wholesale Club in Omaha,  Nebraska.)

 This message has been added to the story above: I
 received this e-mail from one of my friends today. Let me
 first tell you that I work at the Sam's  club in
 Lincoln, NE. The code that was  spoken of is called
 a "Code Adam" It is  named after John Walsh's (of
 Americas most  wanted) son Adam who was kidnapped
 and  murdered many years ago. It is used in all Sam's
 clubs, Wal-marts, and Wal-mart super centers to
 locate lost children. This is how it works. If by
 some means you have been separated with your child
 tell the nearest employee! The employee  will page
 a "Code Adam" (missing child in  the store) over the
 intercom system  followed by a description of the
 child  (height, weight, hair color, age, name, etc.).
 When that page goes out all the exits are immediately
 guarded, and/or locked in some cases, also every
 employee will stop whatever they are doing no
 matter what it is and help look for the  missing child.
 This will continue until  the child is found. If the
 child is not  found within a reasonable time then the
  police are notified and the store will conduct an isle by
 isle search. So if ever you are separated from
 your child now you know what to do. Missing children
 pictures hang by the exits of all Wal-mart  and
 Sam's club stores, please take a few  minutes to look
 these over as you leave,  you just might have seen one of
 the  children on them and you might be the one to give
 there parents hope and give the police a new lead
 in finding them. Thank you.
 Sincerely,
 Rudy Magee
 Sam's Club #6413
  Even if you do not have little kids, pass this one
 on to everyone you can think of. You never know who
 you might save by sending this e-mail! Please take the
 time and forward this to any friend who  has
& grandchildren!
>>>
>>>

[CTRL] [Fwd: FOX NEWS SPECIAL "VANISHING FREEDOM 2: WHO OWNS AMERICA" WILLAIR THIS WE]

[BB]

->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List



visit my web site at  http://www.voicenet.com/~wbacon
My ICQ# is 79071904
for a precise list of the powers of the Federal Government linkto:
http://www.voicenet.com/~wbacon/Enumerated.html

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 05:48:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Bacon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Against Constitutional terrorists <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: SNET: FOX NEWS SPECIAL "VANISHING FREEDOM 2: WHO OWNS AMERICA" WILL
AIR THIS WE. (fwd)



visit my web site at  http://www.voicenet.com/~wbacon
My ICQ# is 79071904
for a precise list of the powers of the Federal Government linkto:
http://www.voicenet.com/~wbacon/Enumerated.html

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 00:29:09 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: SNET: FOX NEWS SPECIAL "VANISHING FREEDOM 2: WHO OWNS AMERICA" WILL
AIR THIS WE.

->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List


> Subj: FOX NEWS SPECIAL "VANISHING FREEDOM 2: WHO OWNS AMERICA" WILL AIR THIS
> WEEKEND, MAY 19 & 20
> Date: 5/19/01 6:23:04 PM Central Daylight Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (spiker)
>
>
>
>
> WILL YOU PLEASE GET THIS OUT TO YOUR FRIENDS VIA YOUR E-MAIL FREEDOM
> EXPRESS.
>
> IT'S DONE!  "VANISHING FREEDOM 2: WHO OWNS AMERICA" WILL AIR THIS WEEKEND,
> MAY 19, 20TH.
>
> SATURDAY 10 P.M.  EST / 7 P.M.  PACIFIC SUNDAY 8 P.M.  EST / 5
> P.M.  PACIFIC THE FOX NEWS SPECIAL "VANISHING FREEDOM 2" EXPOSES HOW AN
> EXTREME ENVIRONMENTAL AGENDA IS ROBBING AMERICANS OF THEIR RIGHTS, STOPPING
> ENERGY PRODUCTION, SHUTTING DOWN ENTIRE INDUSTRIES AND PUTTING THOUSANDS
> OUT OF WORK.
>
> IT BEGINS WITH A LOOK AT THE WILDLANDS PROJECT: A RADICAL VISION TO TURN
> BACK TIME, TO SEIZE UPTO HALF OF AMERICA AND RELOCATE MILLIONS OF AMERICANS
> TO MAKE ROOM FOR WOLVES AND GRIZZLY BEARS.
>
> FOX ALSO LOOKS AT EFFORTS TO END GRAZING ON PUBLIC LAND, USING THE SAGE
> GROUSE TO JUSTIFY GOVERNMENT ACTIONS TO YANK PERMITS AND PROHIBIT AN
> AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE..
>
> OTHER STORIES INCLUDE:
>
> - AGENDA 21, AND HOW THE UNITED NATIONS WANTS TO CONTROL WHERE AMERICANS
> LIVE AND WHAT THEY DO.
>
> United Nations Sustainable Development - Agenda 21
> http://www.un.org/esa/sustdev/agenda21.htm
>
> - THE EARTH LIBERATION FRONT'S CAMPAIGN OF ECO-TERRORISM,
> - ABUSE OF THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT IN KLAMATH FALLS, OREGON
> - GREEN PORK, A LOOK AT HOW PRIVATE FOUNDATIONS AND U.S.  FISH AND WILDLIFE
> SPENDS TAXPAYER MONEY ABROAD TO PROMOTE A CONTROVERSIAL ENVIRONMENTAL
> AGENDA.
>
> - ENERGY AND THE ENVIRONMENT.  MAJOR ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS OPPOSE DAMS,
> NUCLEAR POWER, NATURAL GAS PIPELINES, OIL EXPLORATION, COAL MINING EVEN
> WINDFARMS.  SO WHAT BLAME DO GREENS ACCEPT FOR AMERICANS' ENERGY CRISIS?
>



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[CTRL] [Fwd: Chapter of United Way to fund gay organization]

[BB]

Friends,

Another reason that everyone should investigate where their money is
going. You may be supporting things of which you do not approve and not
even know it.

Jim Hardin

The Freedom Page
http://www.freedompage.ws
To receive Freedom Page mail, put "Subscribe"
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Republic USA
http://www.republicusa.org



From: spiker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Subject: Dallas chapter of United Way to fund gay organization 

Source: 
The Dallas Morning News 
http://www.dallasnews.com/
United Way to fund gay organization 
Move a first for Dallas chapter, which cited group's good deeds 
http://www.dallasnews.com/metro/stories/369357_unitedway_17me.html
Thursday | May 17, 2001
05/17/2001 By Kendall Anderson / The Dallas Morning News
For the first time, the United Way of Metropolitan Dallas will provide funding to a predominantly gay and lesbian organization, officials announced Wednesday.
The Resource Center of Dallas, an Oak Lawn nonprofit that serves gays and lesbians through education and support services, including HIV and AIDS health programs, was selected along with Central Dallas Ministries and the Mi Escuelita preschool program, among others, to receive United Way funding next year.
"Institutionally, to accept an openly gay and lesbian organization would have been pretty difficult 10 year ago ­ it would have stirred discussion about them being gay," said Jesse Gonzalez, the United Way's senior vice president for community investment. "But our discussion was what service do they provide and do they have good outcome measures ­ the same criteria as other organizations. I think that's progress."
The United Way is Dallas' largest source of nongovernmental funding for human services.
The Resource Center, founded in 1983 by gay activists, sought United Way funding years ago but did not get it. Karen Estes, co-executive director at the center, said she thinks that's because the organization was too small at the time.
"I am thrilled to death about this," she said. "This says very clearly that the United Way does not have a problem funding a gay and lesbian organization that does good, credible work."
The Resource Center served more than 5,000 gays and lesbians last year. Some of the United Way funding will go toward a planned food pantry near Fair Park and a new outreach site in Oak Cliff, Ms. Estes said.
Officials at Cathedral of Hope in Dallas, which has the nation's largest gay and lesbian congregation, said the move is significant.
"I think it's an incredible step forward for Dallas," said Randy Sprabary, director of development for the church. "Maybe it will open their eyes to the resource that is the gay and lesbian community."
Dallas joins the ranks of several other United Way chapters, from Atlanta to San Francisco, that fund organizations with a gay and lesbian focus.
Many United Way chapters across the country also have established anti-discrimination policies and, in some cases, pulled funding from groups such as Boy Scouts of America, whose policy to exclude gays was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court last year. The Boy Scouts is based in Irving.
Funding the Resource Center goes along with the United Way's inclusive approach, said Sabrina Slater, spokeswoman for the Dallas chapter.
The agency's mission statement is "to improve the quality of life of all people by responding to priority health and human service needs."
Ms. Slater said "we cannot exactly say we're helping to improve the quality of life of all people if we're not reaching out to diverse groups."
The three new groups will receive money in April from the agency's 
2001-02 fund-raising campaign, which begins this summer. They are the first new groups funded by United Way since 1999.
Central Dallas Ministries runs a food pantry and medical clinic and provides educational and other resources to low-income housing complexes and nine schools.
Mi Escuelita, Inc. is an accredited English-language preschool program with locations in Oak Cliff, West Dallas, Oak Lawn and East Dallas. 

Interested in Constitutional Issues? Checkout The Freedom Page 
radio show audio tapes.  Just click: http://freedompage.home.mindspring.com/store.html

[CTRL] [Fwd: America's Amnesia]

[BB]

Friends,

I cry for our children that don't have a clue about Freedom and Liberty.

Jim Hardin

The Freedom Page
http://www.freedompage.ws
To receive Freedom Page mail, put "Subscribe"
as subject to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To be removed, put "Remove" as subject.

Alabama Committee To Get Us Out of the UN
http://themustardseed.home.mindspring.com


From: The Republican <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: America's amnesia

[Note:  It is both interesting and revealing that "a third of the people
who were asked the origin of the statement, "From each according to his
ability and to each according to his need," responded by saying it's from
our Bill of Rights."  No wonder we are in the state we are, that is the
Marxist Socialist mantra! - Tony]


Excerpt:

"Time is the engine of forgetfulness; mankind's drive for pleasure makes us
now-oriented; the rise of science and technology combines to devalue the
past and undermine the importance of memory; materialism and affluence
produce attitudes whereby what is old -- including the past -- is regarded
as useless and obsolete; and, finally, since our own history is so short,
we're especially susceptible to devaluation of it."



America's amnesia
Walter E. Williams

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22851

© 2001 Creators Syndicate, Inc.


Arthur M. Schlesinger wrote in "The Disuniting of America": "History is to
the nation ... as memory is to the individual. An individual deprived of
memory becomes disoriented and lost, not knowing where he has been or where
he is going, so a nation denied a conception of its past will be disabled
in dealing with its present and future."

Professor Stephen Bertman of the University of Windsor analyzed this threat
in his article titled "Can America Remember Its Past?" which was reprinted
in the December 2000 issue of Current magazine.

Ask an American why Veterans Day falls on Nov. 11 (Nov. 11, 1918, was the
day the armistice was signed that ended World War I). Bertman says you'll
be lucky if anyone has a clue.

In a 1990 survey, almost half of college seniors couldn't locate the Civil
War in the right half century. More recently, 60 percent of American adults
couldn't name the president who ordered the dropping of the first atomic
bomb and over 20 percent didn't know where, or even if, the atomic bomb had
ever been used. The same people didn't know who America's enemies were
during World War II (Germany, Japan and Italy).

In a civics survey, more American teen-agers were able to name the Three
Stooges than the three branches of the federal government (executive,
legislative and judicial branches). Many Americans are similarly ignorant
about our Constitution -- so much so that a third of the people who were
asked the origin of the statement, "From each according to his ability and
to each according to his need," responded by saying it's from our Bill of
Rights.

Bertman says that Americans cannot preserve our free institutions and build
a better society if we've forgotten liberty's value and price. We cannot
recognize that liberty is rare, precious and easily lost if we've forgotten
the words and meaning of the documents upon which the American experiment
was founded. We cannot wisely choose between fighting or not fighting a war
if we've forgotten war's human cost and become oblivious to the historical
necessity of giving one's life in order to preserve a way of life for
others.

If we're ignorant of the historical sacrifices that made our liberties
possible, we will be less likely to make the sacrifices again so that those
liberties are preserved for future generations. And, if we're ignorant, we
won't even know when government infringes on our liberties. Moreover, we'll
happily cast our votes for those who'd destroy our liberties.

Thomas Jefferson summed it up best: "If a nation expects to be ignorant and
free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will
be."

What accounts for American amnesia? Bertman has several explanations that
he says have less to do with our educational system than with the nature of
today's culture and the kind of civilization America has become. Among his
explanations are: Time is the engine of forgetfulness; mankind's drive for
pleasure makes us now-oriented; the rise of science and technology combines
to devalue the past and undermine the importance of memory; materialism and
affluence produce attitudes whereby what is old -- including the past -- is
regarded as useless and obsolete; and, finally, since our own history is so
short, we're especially susceptible to devaluation of it.

I am not sure whether Bertman's explanations accurately diagnose America's
amnesia. One thing for sure is that the disease isn't even recognized, much
less is a remedy being sought. Our historical amnesia doesn't bode well for
our future. As such, it makes a mockery of all the political demagoguery
that we hear to justify one government program or another: We want to do it
for Americ

[CTRL] [Fwd: IS THIS THE SECRET SERVICE OF THE......]

[BB]

->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

...GOVERNMENT THAT YOUR CHURCH SUCKS UP TO WITH 
IT'S 501-(c)-3 STATUS AS A CORPORATION TO THE DEVIL??

I AM ONLY A MORTAL MAN - PERHAPS OUR GOD WILL ASK
YOU ONE DAY - PRAY TELL, WHAT BE YOUR ANSWER??

Respectfully and Prayerfully Submitted,
Bob Worn, Major-USAF (Retired)
Route 8  -  Box 422
Pritchett, Texas  75644-8825
903-734-6970




White House: No-pray zone
Secret Service boots out students who asked God to bless president

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22855

By Matthew Mittan of The Asheville Tribune
© 2001 TRIBUNE PAPERS, INC.

Eleven high-school students, two parent escorts and a teacher were
abruptly escorted out of the White House this week after daring to stop
during a tour of "the people's house" to pray for its chief resident,
President George W. Bush.

When students from Merrimon Christian School in Asheville, N.C., left
for the nation's capital Monday, little could they foresee the
controversy they would find themselves in. Being booted from the White
House and having one of their chaperons "pounded" and yelled at by
security agents was the furthest thing from their minds.

Their tour of the White House State Floor, where major political
receptions take place, was nearly completed, and they were waiting to go
on to the next part before exiting the White House. Ahead of the MCS
students was another group. According to Ms. Pat Aldrich, a high school
teacher at MCS, the group ahead of them had loitered around for about 10
minutes before moving on with the tour. Once that group left, MCS
students decided to join hands in a circle -- off to the side of the big
room but not beyond the public area -- and pray. Aldrich told the
Asheville Tribune by cell phone yesterday, "We [had] decided we were
going to pray for the president [while in the White House]." She also
said that they wanted to thank God for giving them safe travel to
Washington, D.C.

That's when things took a sudden turn.

"Larry, the group leader, started with his prayer first and each person
was going to say a brief prayer," Aldrich, whose prayer was second,
continued. "We had been there less than a minute (praying quietly)" when
a Secret Service agent came over and, according to the teacher, started
physically intervening in the prayer.

"He was pounding on her (Mrs. Renee Gordy, a parent) shoulder while I
was praying, yelling 'MA'AM! MA'AM! MA'AM!'" she said. Aldrich completed
her brief prayer before the group let go of each others' hands.

Aldrich says that the official then "rudely" began ordering the group to
"take it outside" and that they couldn't stay in the room. When it was
mentioned that the group before them had lingered in the room a full 10
minutes, the security officer is said to have yelled at the group,
saying, "I make the rules here, and you obey them!"

"We feel like we were told to leave because we were praying," Aldrich
said. "He was rude beyond all belief."

She said of the students, "The kids were angry that this is supposed to
be 'the people's house' and they treated us this way." Aldrich said that
the agent was particularly rude toward one female student, Jessica
Banks.

Scott Thompson, Headmaster of MCS, was fully supportive of the group's
prayer and the response of his students and adult chaperons to the
incident.

Asked if Aldrich might face any consequences with the school upon her
return, Thompson said, "None whatsoever!" In fact, when Aldrich asked
Thompson if she could draft a letter of complaint against the White
House, he gave her immediate approval to do so. He also said that if the
kids were feeling any anger, fear or curiosities about the confrontation
that they should also be encouraged to write to government officials.

Thompson continued, "John Locke wrote about toleration. Toleration is
the ability to discuss our differences and tell someone why you believe
the way you do. I think we've redefined toleration in America today.
Tolerance now means not talking about things you believe in." He
believes that is what happened Tuesday at the White House, that there
was a lack of tolerance of public prayer.

Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., has his office "aggressively pursuing
answers" as to what, exactly, led to this confrontation between White
House security and the student group from Asheville.

Michael Briggs, a spokesman from Edwards' Washington, D.C., office told
the Tribune that Edwards is co-chair of the Senate Prayer Breakfast and
that he very much wants to "find out what happened." Briggs said that
their office had contacted the Secret Service and was waiting for a call
back from them.

Edwards later called the Tribune to add, "I can't imagine what the
objection would be to students praying on government property. I pray
regularly on government property. I want to make sure this doesn't
happen again."

The office of Rep. Charles Taylor, R-N.C., has told MCS that this is an
executive branch issue and they are from the legislative branch.
Ta

[CTRL] Million Mom March Dangerous To Women And Kids

[BB]

 Original Message 
 Subject:
   
Million Mom March Dangerous To Women And Kids
   Date:
   
Mon, 14 May 2001 15:24:29 -0700
  From:
   
"Liz Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    Reply-To:
   
"Liz Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization:
   
Analon
 To:
 
 
 I wrote this a year ago. I thought
maybe this Million Mom thing would go away and be seen for the
 fraud it is. But apparently,
some in power insist upon its resurrection. Accordingly, I believe I need
 to restate why this so-called
movement, which is nothing more than a political manipulation, is
 dangerous and will cost lives.
 Liz
 
 Million Mom March Dangerous To
Women And Kids
 by Liz Michael
 LizMichael.com, www.lizmichael.com
 Released May 13, 2000 for immediate
release
 
 I'm going to come right out and
say this. I can't mince words any longer.
 The so-called "Million Mom March"
represents a clear and present danger to every
 woman in this nation, especially
every teenage girl in this nation. Every woman
 participating in this march
is participating in an act that may very well lead to her own death,
 assault, or rape, as well as
the death, assault or rape of any woman or young girl in her
 family. Every individual participating
in this march or financing this march is
 effectively sponsoring a future
criminal assault on me and people I love, and I hold
 them as responsible as the criminal
himself.
 I know what you're going to say:
"Liz, isn't that a bit strong? Can't intelligent people agree
 to disagree?"
 No, not on this. I'm tired of
trying to make peace with these people. I'm tired of having to
 defend my right to protect myself
and my family. Tired of protecting my right not to be
 raped. Not to be murdered. Not
to be a victim.
 I usually approach the subject
of the Second Amendment with the approach for which I
 believe it was designed: namely
that the Second Amendment was designed to keep various
 arms in private hands to insure
against the establishment of a tyrannical government. I'm
 gonna not talk about that: for
now. The Jewish Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide
 notwithstanding.
 I'm gonna frame the firearms
issue strictly in terms of one factor. Natural law.
 First of all, let's establish
one premise. A person under attack from an assailant has an
 inherent human right to defend
themselves from that attack by any means necessary. I think
 most of us, in our hearts, believe
that. If you do not believe that, you're already a stupid
 idiot. YES! YOU! STUPID! I said
it. I meant it. Deal with it.
 Second. That right is natural
and inherent. It is a right that any creature on this earth has by
 nature of their creation. Look
at mammals, birds, insects, you name it. The vast majority of
 them are vested by a survival
instinct to automatically repel any attempt to harm them, to
 prevent it, to hide from it.
They are also given, in addition to their natural characteristics for
 self-defense, a brain, to devise
ways of protecting themselves from attack, sheltering
 themselves from attack, and
so forth.
 Third, this right and instinct
extends to THEIR FAMILY. Look at almost any animal
 species, and you will always
see vigorous attempts by mothers, and often even fathers, to
 protect their young. But it's
not just blood relatives. That instinct toward self-protection also
 extends to the pack, the pride,
the colony. Even if members of the colony really aren't
 related.
 Fourth, the right and instinct
also extends TO THEIR PROPERTY. You see this in the
 wild. You even see it among
pets. It's why dogs make such good guards. They instinctively
 protect the turf. And not just
real property, but THINGS also.
 I had to lay all that out. Because
I think everyone who deludes themselves into thinking they
 are civilized, or live in a
civilized society, ties themselves to the bizarre concept, that all
 society's problems can be solved
if only they can pass some STUPID LITTLE LAW.
 The criminal, though, like the
predator in the jungle, is under no such delusion. The criminal
 determines exactly what he wants,
what his soul craves, and he goes after it. Sometimes
 the law does dissuade him. But
the more vicious and demented he is, or the greedier he is,
 the less likely any stupid little
law will deter him.
 So into this eternal battle between
criminal and citizen, come these individuals. They say
 that "we all will be safer if
we all submit ourselves to restraints upon when and how
 we are allowed to defend ourselves,
and we must get government approval to defend
 ourselves, and only defend ourselves
in the way the government states we can. And
 we don't want any defense methods
to be transferable from one person to another.
 And kids shouldn't 

Re: [CTRL] SNET: Are children deliberately 'dumbed down' in school?

[BB]

-Caveat Lector-

See Jay Leno's interviews with young people in the street,
hear them struggle with "how many feet in a yard?",
then draw your own conclusions.

Misty wrote:

> ->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List
>
> SUNDAY Q&A
> Are children deliberately 'dumbed down' in school?
> Geoff Metcalf interviews former U.S. education adviser Charlotte Iserbyt
> http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22792
> 
> 
>
> Editors Note: Most parents want their children to receive a quality
> education. Yet, low test scores, drugs and violence on campus are
> increasingly prevalent in public schools and the disconnect between parents,
> educators and administrators is widening. Why is this situation occurring
> when so much time, money and attention is being directed toward improving
> education in the United States?
>
> Today, WorldNetDaily staff writer and talk-show host Geoff Metcalf
> interviews someone who has some shocking answers, Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt.
> During the '80s, Iserbyt was a senior policy adviser in the U.S. Department
> of Education and has also written "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America,"
> a chronological history of the past 100 years of education reform. In this
> interview with Metcalf, she discusses the impact of the federal government,
> the United Nations and influential corporations on the American educational
> system and a little-known program called "School-To-Work."
>
> Metcalf's daily streaming radio show can be heard on TalkNetDaily weekdays
> from 7 p.m. to 10 p.m. Eastern time.
>
> By Geoff Metcalf
> © 2001 WorldNetDaily.com
>
> Question: The first thing I have to ask you -- I’m still not sure if this is
> a blessing or a curse -- but ever since I returned to talk radio ten years
> ago, I promised myself I wouldn’t interview any author until I read their
> book. I was intimidated when yours arrived in the mail.
>
> Answer: I don’t blame you.
>
> Q: It is a big puppy. 714 pages worth.
>
> A: It is a big baby.
>
> Q: What led you to this project? You were with the Department of Education
> in the '80s -- why the book?
>
> A: I actually started collecting research in the early '70s. I was on a
> local school board after living outside the country for 18 years for the
> United States Department of State. When I came back, I was very upset with
> the changes I had seen in our school district -- which had happened to be a
> pilot-school district for change. The kids were rolling around on the
> floor -- they didn’t have to learn grammar or anything -- and I was shocked.
> I started asking questions and, as the only parent who ever complained, I
> would go to school board meetings and ask very legitimate questions like,
> why don’t they teach grammar?
>
> Q: How dare you ask such a silly question?
>
> A: And, finally, a retired teacher came to me and she said, "You are right
> on! I want you to go for some training to become a 'change agent.' We’re
> going to find out what is going on." So, she paid for me to go to this
> training. The training came out of the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor,
> and was funded by what was to become my office in the U.S. Department of
> Education. It was funded earlier in the '70s -- and it was still funded
> under Ronald Reagan, by the way. This particular project was called
> "Innovations in Education/Change Agents Guide."
>
> Q: So what did you learn in the training?
>
> A: I was taught how to identify the resisters in my community. Those people
> who -- good people -- good Americans who have seen and know clearly these
> programs in the schools were not there to help our children academically.
>
> Q: Hold on. This sounds as if instead of any modification in curriculum, the
> objective was to go after the people who were complaining about changes in
> curriculum?
>
> A: Complaining about "values clarification" and complaining about "sex ed"
> and complaining about all of these subjects that have education hanging off
> the end of them. You know, we didn’t used to have "math education" and
> "reading education" -- that’s not really education. When you have
> "education" hanging off of it, you know that they have another agenda
> (except for "Drivers Ed"). Anyway, these were the people in our communities
> in the '70s who were saying, "I don’t like that sex education. I don’t think
> it is up to schools to teach my children there’s no right or wrong." And
> saying, "I don’t like that drug education and what’s that critical-thinking
> education?"
>
> I was trained because they didn’t know who I was.
>
> Q: Who were you?
>
> A: I was a resister. I was actually being trained to identify myself. And I
> didn’t like it. The other part of it was, I was trained to go to the
> highly-respected people in our community ...
>
> Q: Wait a minute. So, once you identified these so-called resisters, these
> people who were critical of people who defend the indefensible, then what do
> y

[CTRL] [Fwd: Yet another nightmare - Why credit agencies need your social security number]

[BB]

Friends,

And, all of this tracking is without your permission.

Jim Hardin

The Freedom Page
http://www.freedompage.ws
To receive Freedom Page mail, put "Subscribe"
as subject to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To be removed, put "Remove" as subject.

Republic USA
http://www.republicusa.org


From: "W.G.E.N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Don Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: Why credit agencies need your social security number

http://sightings.com/general10/amm.htm



FBI Spends Millions Buying
Dossiers On Almost All
American Adults
By Richard Smith
http://www.privacyfoundation.org/commentary/tipsheet.asp
5-12-1
I was a bit surprised to learn last month that I have an FBI file. You have
one, too.

The FBI spent $8 million last year with a company called ChoicePoint Inc.
to buy dossiers on almost all adults who live in the United States.
ChoicePoint, formerly a part of credit-reporting giant Equifax, is a
publicly-held database firm with a market value of $2.25 billion, based in
Alpharetta, Ga.

Using our Social Security numbers as a key personal identifier, ChoicePoint
compiles dossiers on citizens from credit reports, and from public records
such as court files, property tax documents, business incorporations, and
professional license applications. ChoicePoint bundles the information and
resells it to business and government clients. The FBI is apparently such a
good customer that they get their own website to access the database.

The Wall Street Journal reported on the FBI's use of this database on April
13. After reading the article, I e-mailed ChoicePoint CEO Derek Smith
asking to see the dossiers on my family. A couple weeks later, after paying
$20 apiece for the privilege, I received by mail a packet of more than 60
pages of computer print-outs from ChoicePoint containing information about
myself and my wife.

Sixty pages seemed like a lot of information for one family. Looking
through the first few pages of my dossier I saw that my credit card
companies gave ChoicePoint my current address, plus my previous two
addresses. My town gave them information about my house: when I bought it,
how much I paid for it, and my property taxes. They even had the square
footage for the house, which I've been curious to know ever since we moved
in. Since my wife and I have the same phone number in the White Pages,
ChoicePoint correctly deduced that she and I are related.

The deeper I dove into my dossier, however, the weirder things got. A lot
of misleading information is included, perhaps because my name is a common
one. ChoicePoint noted, for example, that I might have been previously
married to some lady named Mary, but that I had died in 1976. Yikes! They
did a search of Texas criminal records and found nothing under my name.
However, the report suggested a further search under names such as "Ricky
Smith" and "Rickie Smith" because there were some bad guys in jail under
these names. ChoicePoint touted me as a real estate agent in my town. They
also thought I might be involved in more than 30 small businesses around
the country simply because the name "Richard Smith" appears as a company
officer.

On my wife's dossier I learned with amazement that she had a son named
"Kyle" three years before we met. It was unclear from the report how
ChoicePoint made this connection and where Kyle is today. Pretty funny how
they missed our two real daughters. They did list one of my daughters as a
neighbor, but she actually hasn't lived at home for the last eight years
since she went away to college.

Memo to the FBI: The ChoicePoint dossier for my household contains more
misinformation than correct information. I'm not sure how someone looking
over these reports could use them in any meaningful way without already
knowing a good deal about myself and my wife.

After seeing these reports, I wanted to opt-out. Guess what? Just as with
credit reporting agencies, you can't. They choose to have a relationship
with you, but you have no choice in your relationship with them. In my
original e-mail message to the ChoicePoint CEO, I asked about opting out. I
got a nice letter back from the ChoicePoint chief privacy officer saying
"No." Here was the reason given:

"Our individual reference products are used by legitimate businesses and
government agencies to identify and locate individuals to make society a
safer place, including detecting and preventing fraud, locating and
apprehending fugitives, and finding missing children and reuniting them
with their families. Given these uses and the adverse effect opt-out would
have on our ability to provide quality information for these decisions that
matter, I am unable to remove your information from these products." Hmmm.
My next level of concern is about how the misinformation in these files
could be used against me. Besides providing information to the FBI,
ChoicePoint helps companies conduct employee background checks, fraud
investigations, and review insurance applications. I don't want to be
has

[CTRL] [Fwd: There are certain things you don't draw [Think]- Pinellas fifthgrader cuffed]

[BB]

 The land of the free -



http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/sfl-511gunboy.story?coll=sfla%2Dhome%

Pinellas fifth grader cuffed, sent home after classmates turn him in 
for drawing weapons
The Associated Press

May 11, 2001

OLDSMAR -- A boy was taken from his elementary school in handcuffs 
after his classmates turned him in for drawing pictures of weapons.
The 11-year-old fifth grader was not charged with a crime in the 
Wednesday incident. His name is not being released to protect him, 
school officials said.

``There were some drawings that were confiscated by the teacher,'' 
Oldsmar Elementary School Principal David Schmitt said. ``The 
children were in no danger at all. It involved no real weapons.'' 
Still, Schmitt refused to discuss details of the boy's case. ``All I 
can tell you is it was a threat . . . against students,'' he said. 
``Nobody in particular, but students in general.

``We just need to get it through kids' heads that there are certain 
things you don't say and there are certain things you don't draw,'' 
he said. The boy was handcuffed by school police for his safety, 
according to Pinellas County School District spokesman Ron Stone.

[...]



Copyright © 2001, South Florida Sun-Sentinel

**
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Send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words subscribe FA
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Re: [CTRL] F.B.I demands server logs

[BB]

AND, in the land of the free, the FBI FURTHER demands the the
existence of the first demand be kept quiet and secret.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List


In a message dated 5/12/01 8:25:24
PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 
Source:
COUNTER INSURRECTION
http://www.counterinsurrection.com
Turn 'em in OR ELSE. F.B.I
demands server logs.
http://seattle.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=3014

   FULL SCRIPT
FOLLOWS - Bob
 

 
 
  IN THE
MATTER OF THE APPLICATION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
FOR AN ORDER
AUTHORIZING THE DISCLOSURE OF RECORDS AND OTHER
INFORMATION
PERTAINING TO ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION SERVICE
PROVIDED BY
INDYMEDIA.
 
THIS MATTER having
come before the Court pursuant to the Application of the
United States
of America, which Application requests that an Order be issued:
(1) directing
that INDEPENDENT MEDIA, and any other provider of electronic
communications
service and their agents and employees, not disclose to the
user of said
electronic communication service, nor to any other person, the
existence of
this Application and Order or the existence of this
investigation
unless and until otherwise ordered by the Court;
(2) directing
INDEPENDENT MEDIA, a provider of electronic communications
service, as
defined by Title 18, United States Code, Section 2510(15), to
examine all
account records and system/accounting log files and supply the
Federal Bureau
of Investigation with all Information listed on Attachment A
to this Order;
and (3) directing that the Application and Court's Order be
sealed;
IT APPEARING
that there is an ongoing criminal investigation into acts which
would constitute
violations of Sections 322 (theft) and 430 (mischief) of the
Criminal Code
of Canada, and that one or more of the subjects of said
investigation
are unknown, and
IT APPEARING
that Independent Media is an Internet publisher of information,
administered
by Jonathon Jay at 1415 3rd Avenue, Seattle, Washington 98101,
and
IT APPEARING
that the Application has been made in good faith in the @erance
of a pending
criminal investigation, and the Court finding that the
Applicant, as
the attorney for the United States, has offered specific and
articulable
facts showing that there are reasonable grounds to believe that
the records
of electronic communication sought are relevant and material to
an ongoing criminal
investigation.
IT APPEARING
that there is reason to believe that notification of the
existence of
this Order will result in destruction of or tampering with
evidence, or
will otherwise seriously jeopardize the investigation,
IT IS ORDERED,
pursuant to Title 18, United States Code, Section 2703(c) and
(d);Title 28,
United States Code, Section 1651; and Rule 41, Federal Rules of
Criminal Procedure,
that INDEPENDENT MEDIA, 1415 3rd Avenue, Seattle,
Washington 98101,
a provider of electronic communications service, as defined
by Title 18,
United States Code, Section 2510(15) examine all account and
system/accounting
log files and supply the Federal Bureau of Investigation
with all information
described in Attachment A to this Order.
IT IS FURTHER
ORDERED, pursuant to Title 18, United States Code, Section
5(b), that INDEPENDENT
MEDIA, and their agents and employees, shall not
disclose to
the user of electronic communication service, nor to any other
person, the
existence of this Application or Order, or the existence of this
investigation,
unless and until otherwise ordered by the Court; and
IT IS FURTHER
ORDERED, pursuant to Title 28, United States Code, Section 1651
that this Order
and the Application be sealed until otherwise ordered by the
Court.
DATED this 24
day of April 2001.
STEPHEN C SCHROEDER
Assistant United States Attorney
UNITED STATES
ATTORNEY
Seafirst Fifth
Avenue Plaza Building
800 Fifth Avenue,
Suite 3600 Seattle, Washington 98104
(206) 553-7970
ATTACHMENT A
All user connection
logs for 216.213.32.98 for the time period beginning
April 20, 2001,
to the date of this Order for any connections to or from that
IP address.
User connection
logs should contain the following:
1. Connection
time and date;
2. Disconnect
time and date;
3. Method of
connection to system (e.g., SLIP, PPP, Shell);
4. Data transfer
volume (e.g., bytes);
5. Connection
information for other systems to which user connected via ,
including:
a. Connection
destination;
b. Connection
time and date;
c. Disconnect
time and date;
d. Method of
connection to/from system (e.g., telnet, ftp, http);
e. Data transfer
volume (e.g., bytes);
add
your own comments
 
IP Address
216.213.32.98 isn't even IMC (!)
by Incompetecy
vs. fascism... who will win? 8:21pm Fri Apr 27 '01
n/a
 
 
 
 

 
Did a trace on
the IP listed above-- It looks like its from
Jersey City
(!?)
Here's the readout:
IP Address: 216.213.32.98
Location: Jersey
City (40.704N, 74.013W)
Network: QV
Trading
Didn't the FBI
even bother to look up the right address before they started
visiting judges?
I suppose if
they can't be bothered to read the big p

[CTRL] [Fwd: You have a right to a firearm]

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You have a right to a firearm
  

© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

So long as there are idiots out there who are trying to convince people
to disarm themselves so they can be maimed or killed by violent
criminals, I will fulfill my journalistic duty to remind folks that they
don't necessarily have to become a statistic if they don't want to.

You have a constitutional right to own a firearm -- handgun, shotgun,
rifle -- if you so choose. And, like all our other rights -- free
speech, freedom of religion, the right to avoid self-incrimination --
your right to own a gun cannot be "infringed," taken away, banned,
limited, or ignored.

You may not agree with or like Buddhism, Wicca or Islam, but in America
you don't have the right to forbid people from observing or practicing
those religions.

You may not agree with or like what WorldNetDaily or Rush Limbaugh or
Bill Clinton or the New York Times has to say, but you don't have the
right to order them to shut down or shut up.

Consequently, you can belong to all the "million mom" or "handgun
control" groups you want, but you don't have the right to forbid, limit,
or ban persons from buying and owning firearms. It's as much a
constitutional right as any other.

Maybe too few people realize this because too few schools provide kids
with proper constitutional instruction. I know of and have heard of
teachers who badmouth and ridicule the Second Amendment just because
they personally don't like guns. Ironically, however, they use their
First Amendment right of free speech to trash the Second.

Or maybe it's because too few media pinheads have a clue about the
proper constitutional rights and responsibilities of citizens and
government alike. I know of lots of journalists who would rather be
invited to parties held by anti-liberty minded politicians than remind
their readers of their right to own a firearm.

Or maybe it's because too many communities ban or severely restrict
access to guns while too many judges and lawmakers let these communities
get by with it. I know of lots of local big fish who are of the mind
that they should be dictators of their own little domain and should have
the right to restrict gun rights (and others) at their leisure or whim.

But whatever the reason, the one irrefutable fact of the matter is this:
Americans do now and have always had the right to "keep and bear arms,"
because our Constitution says we can -- and there isn't a damned thing
gun opponents can do about it.

Or rather, there shouldn't be anything they can do about it. Far too
many federal, state and local politicians and judges are just as
anti-gun, all-controlling and hypocritical about the Constitution and
the rights it guarantees we the people.

Oddly, they will let kids view pornography on the Internet but are
against letting a 100-pound woman carry a gun in her purse so she can
defend herself against a 220-pound male rapist.

My guess is if more lawmakers and judges were attacked, beaten or raped,
they'd suddenly "see the wisdom" of the Second Amendment. I'm not
advocating that, mind you, but unless you've been in that kind of
situation, it's very easy to deny others the right to defend themselves
-- especially if you're personally surrounded with a boatload of armed
personal bodyguards or cops.

People should understand that while some anti-gun advocates really
believe what they are doing is right, their efforts to make sure you're
unarmed are inherently more dangerous to you than guns themselves.

Criminals love helpless, hapless victims. Always have, always will; the
more helpless, the better.

Consequently, the more gun control laws anti-gunners convince lawmakers
to pass and judges to uphold, the more violence and deaths our society
will suffer because lawbreaking maniacs don't care much about laws --
against guns or anything else -- in the first place.

The cardinal rule of safety that you should follow is this: You should
never let someone who is not responsible for you determine what's best
for your personal safety.

Also, even if you don't like guns you shouldn't be willing to accept
limitations or bans on them because sooner or later, somebody will get
around to limiting or banning other constitutional rights you do
"approve" of.

If anti-gun proponents want to disarm themselves, tell everyone they see
that they're disarmed and post a sign in their front yard that says,
"Don't worry -- I don't have a gun," that's their business. And their
right.

But if any group or politician seeks to infringe upon, limit or ban the
"right to keep and bear arms," remind them they have no "right" to do
so. You can use your First Amendment right of government redress to do
the reminding, as well as your constitutional right to vote.
  

Jon E. Dougherty is a staff reporter and 

[CTRL] [Fwd: Gun-wielding agents raid tax activist's home]

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Gun-wielding agents
raid tax activist's home

Officers on 'fishing expedition' also take items from business location



By Ed Oliver
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

Armed revenue agents from the California Franchise Tax Board, with
support from local police, raided the home and business of a
high-profile tax-resistance activist Wednesday morning.

"They are here on a fishing expedition," business owner George "Nick"
Jesson told WorldNetDaily on his cell phone from outside his offices at
N.T.D. Electronics in Huntington Beach, Calif. Inside, agents were
breaking into file cabinets, removing hard drives and boxing up the
company's books and records.

Jesson is one of several employers who have directly challenged the IRS
and state revenue departments by publicly declaring that they will no
longer withhold taxes from their employees and will no longer pay taxes
because they say the law does not require them to do so.

The employer tax revolt gained national attention this year with the
help of several full-page ads in USA Today -- including one in March
featuring an open letter from Jesson to IRS Commissioner Charles
Rossotti. The letter referred to a February New York Times article in
which reporter David Cay Johnston pointed to Jesson and other employers
by name in the context of reporting that the IRS was planning to
prosecute "some business owners" for "tax evasion and other crimes."

Also in the letter, Jesson requested a face-to-face meeting with
Rossotti or a delegate in order to clear up any misunderstandings about
the tax law and regulations that the employers say they are acting on.

Jesson told WorldNetDaily that the raid occurred while he was driving
his two boys to school about 8:45 a.m. Wednesday morning. His wife Trina
was already at the office. At that time, approximately 10 state tax
agents went to his home in nearby Fountain Valley and demanded the nanny
let them in.

The nanny did not open the door for the agents, but asked them for a
warrant. She said the tax agents then kicked the door in, terrifying her
and her 3-year-old boy. Agents then proceeded to search the house
without showing her a warrant, said Jesson.

Meanwhile, a second team of armed tax agents stormed the offices and
warehouse of N.T.D. Electronics. Trina Jesson said she was sitting at
her desk when three agents burst in and held guns to her head. She said
they told her to get away from the desk, cooperate and she wouldn't get
hurt. Revenue agents also rounded up warehouse employees at gunpoint,
according to Jesson. Everybody was escorted out of the building.

After Nick Jesson arrived, he said he was informed verbally that agents
were there because he did not pay his taxes. They presented him with a
search warrant. A partial copy of the search warrant faxed by Jessson to
WND refers on the front page to a possible felony. Two pages were
missing from the warrant, said Jesson, who claimed that is how he
received it, and he assumes those pages describe probable cause.

Jesson said he asked Senior Special Agent Edward Wilson what the felony
charge was, but that Wilson couldn't tell him.

"I called the district attorney handling the case. I asked him, 'What is
the felony charge?' He couldn't tell me," said Jesson.

Jesson said he asked the agents to leave after he noticed the warrant
was incorrectly dated with the year 2000. The agents refused to leave,
he said, but later told him that they called the judge who said he made
a mistake and would correct the date. According to Jesson, a corrected
warrant was never delivered.

Describing the armed raid, Deputy District Attorney William Overtoom
told WND: "There are no charges. Nobody was arrested. Basically, this is
an investigation into possible violations of California criminal law.
The search warrant was to get hold of records and other evidence as part
of that investigation."

Overtoom said he could not discuss what prompted the investigation. When
asked what was on the two missing pages of the search warrant faxed by
Jesson, Overtoom said there were actually four search warrants served
Wednesday at different California locations of properties belonging to
Jesson.

"Those pages he's not talking about are descriptions of items and
property to be seized at other locations," said Overtoom. "I don't know
what he's talking about."

Overtoom added that he could not fax copies of the warrants for another
two weeks by law because the searches are still ongoing.

"The search warrant is saying that the judge made a finding that, based
upon the affidavit that is not available for public viewing yet, there
is probable cause to believe that there are at specific locations
certain items which tend to show that a felony has been committed.
Basically, a finding of probable cause has been made by the judge," said
Overtoom.

The prosec