Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
On Sat, 4 Feb 2006, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: > if you want to look at the CC archives, go here: > > 1. General archives http://tinyurl.com/aj2bt > 2. IRC log http://tinyurl.com/8teso > 3. Minutes: http://tinyurl.com/csorc > 4. Addendum to minutes: http://tinyurl.com/at3bz There is also something wrong with the infrastructure if you have to use tinyurl to point to information within the infrastrukture... The most enjoyable greetings -- Claus Agerskov ###= Analyze OpenOffice.org Co-lead/owner #=== Requirements Project Management Tool [EMAIL PROTECTED] Design/model Subproject http://ooo.chbs.dk/ Implement http://oopm.openoffice.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: Look at the archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] There were two messages that Laurent forwarded to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, which is where a lot of the agenda items for Council discussions come from: 1. From Adam Moore via Laurent G.: http://tinyurl.com/9urx5 2. From Ian Lynch via Laurent G.: http://tinyurl.com/ccog7 I do invite everyone to read those and form an opinion. Ian's post indeed seems to be basically an expression of concern. I thought that was very clear. Adam's seems to be expressing concerns over the way Louis and Jacqueline manage this project. I could be mistaken, but I really think that Ian and Adam were asking for procedures; not for the CC to ask Jacqueline to tell us why she fired Ryan. Certainly that was the gist of what I wrote. [snip] Unfortunately, the gist of what you wrote could have been more precise and productive of action. How would you have rephrased Ian's message to make it clearer? I think it was clear. Maybe other people can chip in and say if they think it was unclear. Look at who has been posting in the last ten days and at the tone. As the tone becomes more acrimonious, only you, Daniel, Jean, and a few others more or less in your circle continue to post (and I every now and then respond). What about new people? If you are really interested in broadening the scope of this project, let others speak. Looking at the most recent emails (I last cleared my inbox) this is what I see: Posts from Cristian: 15 Posts from Jean: 13 Posts from Louis: 10 Posts from Ian: 8 Posts from Steven: 6 Posts from Daniel: 6 Hm. I am not sure quite how to reply. I suppose the direct answer is the best: I corrected his misstatements I said that the project has high barriers for contribution. That is, to an extent, a matter of opinion. It appears that several people share that opinion. Hence, it is an opinion worth considering. If you feel that some of those concerns are purely a mistaken perception, then it would be good to try to change that perception. If some of those are more than perception, then try to correct those. As Daniel has been a longtime critic of the Marketing, Website, and Documentation Projects, strongly correcting him made sense. Have I mentioned that the documentation project has improved enormously? I am very happy with their progress. They have been doing a lot of good things and you can see the leads making an effort to lower barriers. Like GRS' regular welcome email for new members and the web page re-design. Best, Daniel. -- /\/`) http://oooauthors.org /\/_/ http://opendocumentfellowship.org /\/_/ \/_/I am not over-weight, I am under-tall. / - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
Hello, On 2006-02-05, at 13:42 , Ian Lynch wrote: On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 11:48 -0500, Daniel Carrera wrote: Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: * When people asked the MP lead why she fired a MarCon the issue was sent to the CC. Ian and Adam asked Laurent for the CC to intervene. The CC did not ask to see this and sent the issue back to the MP. IIRC Adam asked what the procedure was for expressing a grievance if it was not allowed on the list and Louis referred him to the CC. Since the CC rep is Laurent, that is what happened. Presumably the project has to have some procedures to deal with something that appears to be an injustice. In this case it seems the outcome ended up as - Don't post about this on the marketing list, its off topic. ok who do we contact? The Community Council - who then referred it back to the marketing project. To me that seems totally bizarre. Look at the archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] There were two messages that Laurent forwarded to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, which is where a lot of the agenda items for Council discussions come from: 1. From Adam Moore via Laurent G.: http://tinyurl.com/9urx5 2. From Ian Lynch via Laurent G.: http://tinyurl.com/ccog7 As the ultimate agenda for the council discussion stated, there was no clear request for Council action. Your clamour that it was an injustice with, at the time, crucial evidence lacking, was not enough for the Council to do specific things. The Council returned the issue to the MP to get the needed evidence and then to discuss it. As I mentioned in my last email on this subject, I would expect that will happen once Jacqueline returns this week. Should it be the case that the discussion results in specific things that are relevant to the CC, then it could be returned there and the Council would then be able to act on it. It would help greatly if you read the actual content of the posts. For instance, here is what Laurent wrote to the Marketing Project on 2006-01-17: "The CC decided that it had not enough informations to decide anything. The CC states that this is an internal marketing project issue to be discussed and can be call as the last solution." To translate: The CC needed the letter sent by Jacqueline to Ryan to be made public and further wanted the Marketing Project to resolve this on its own. If the CC needs to be involved, it can be, as mentioned above. I could be mistaken, but I really think that Ian and Adam were asking for procedures; not for the CC to ask Jacqueline to tell us why she fired Ryan. Certainly that was the gist of what I wrote. [snip] Unfortunately, the gist of what you wrote could have been more precise and productive of action. FWIW, the CC is not in the business of specifying how each project should be run. It can set guidelines and it can look at specific instances where there seems to be a problem. It can then act on specific items. [snip It seems to me that the asking for money thing is perhaps a complete misunderstanding again underlining the need for caution when acting on a flame war. It also seems that in practice the CC is not at all geared up to deal with this type of situation and really it should be. I can only make an observation here, I have no means of changing anything. Looking more closely over the archives, the money situation was probably a misunderstanding. I referred the request to the CC because I understood there to be a call for funding travel, lodging, etc., to the DLS, which we (OOo) had not really decided on. Last year, we had extensive discussions on the matter, you may recall. As my posts on this subject have indicated, I am *for* having procedures to target certain events and for getting funding for those. As of right now, I understand the CC to manage funding, via Team OpenOffice.org. It did anyway for last year's DLS and for all prior OOoCons. Sun has helped out with some events where it is represented but not where it is not, which makes obvious sense. I am *for* improving things so that there is an obvious procedure for getting funds for events that are deemed to be meritorious. Most of the people here are volunteers. They do not want to be in a community or on a list where there are constant fights, constant battles and some fear. You don't think that is an apt description of your email? No need to lose your temper Louis. If you think I'm wrong simply say so. I think that the project is a Cathedral and gave reasons. You are welcome to disagree politely. If you do not like the OpenOffice.org project Daniel, why do you stay here? Why do you assume because someone disagrees with you or even in the past might have said things that make your management job more difficult that they don't like the project? [snip] I do not make such an assumption and do not personalize things as you state. I usually do not find personal disagreem
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 11:48 -0500, Daniel Carrera wrote: > Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: > >> * When people asked the MP lead why she fired a MarCon the issue was > >> sent to the CC. > > > > Ian and Adam asked Laurent for the CC to intervene. The CC did not ask > > to see this and sent the issue back to the MP. IIRC Adam asked what the procedure was for expressing a grievance if it was not allowed on the list and Louis referred him to the CC. Since the CC rep is Laurent, that is what happened. Presumably the project has to have some procedures to deal with something that appears to be an injustice. In this case it seems the outcome ended up as - Don't post about this on the marketing list, its off topic. ok who do we contact? The Community Council - who then referred it back to the marketing project. To me that seems totally bizarre. > I could be mistaken, but I really think that Ian and Adam were asking > for procedures; not for the CC to ask Jacqueline to tell us why she > fired Ryan. Certainly that was the gist of what I wrote. I don't know what other people said. I would hope that we could establish at least the level of support to community members that companies give to employees without it being necessary to form a union :-) Yes people sometimes say things in haste and regret at their leisure. Also many people are not native speakers of English so sometiomes the way things are worded sound worse than intended. Then there are people getting passionate and emotional because they believe strongly in something. Mailing list are notoriously good at polarising debates and ending up in acrymony. There should at least be a cooling off period before important decisions are made that affect the individual volunteers. > > In fact, the CC dislikes intervening in a project's affairs. I brought > > the issue of the DLS to the CC because it involved money and a decision > > had to be made soon. > > Ryan didn't ask for money. He said he wanted to go at his own expense. I have to concur that this was spelled out several times. The post that invoked the community council was this one. * Adam > I'll say that this may have not been the best post, but can you point > us to where we take our grievances? Maybe it will help us keep posts > like this off of this list and directed to the right place. Louis Sure. If any user has problems with the project (OOo big or small; individual or overall stuff), then the Council is always there to hear the user. * It seems to me that the asking for money thing is perhaps a complete misunderstanding again underlining the need for caution when acting on a flame war. It also seems that in practice the CC is not at all geared up to deal with this type of situation and really it should be. I can only make an observation here, I have no means of changing anything. > > Most of the people here are volunteers. They do not want to be in a > > community or on a list where there are constant fights, constant > > battles and some fear. > > You don't think that is an apt description of your email? No need to > lose your temper Louis. If you think I'm wrong simply say so. I think > that the project is a Cathedral and gave reasons. You are welcome to > disagree politely. > > > If you do not like the OpenOffice.org project Daniel, why do you stay > > here? Why do you assume because someone disagrees with you or even in the past might have said things that make your management job more difficult that they don't like the project? Heck all of us can find fault with the project and no-one expects you to be a miracle worker, Louis. Its obvious to me that Daniel has got het up about OOo not because he hates the project but because he loves it. If you dedicate most of your life to something you do tend to be more strongly attached to it than is sometimes healthy (No offence Daniel but you can be obsessive - but that has some real advantages too). Its obvious to anyone that Daniel's previous commitment was more than you would get from an average paid employee. > OOo is an important project and I'd like to see it succeed. I > participate in a way that I feel will help the project most. For > example, by pointing out barriers to participation. That's the same > thing that most people in this thread are doing. > > > Well, good for you. Perhaps one day you will be as popular as OOo. In > > the meanwhile: do not bother us with more of your baseless attacks. This is just so petty its unbelievable. Don't take all the analysis so personally. There has to be analysis of weaknesses if anything is to change and if things don't change they die. I think the discussion of these things has been constructive so let's not make it otherwise. Even if you personally can't stand the sight of Daniel, as a member of the project he is entitled to an opinion and it doesn't seem a lot diffe
Re: [Marketing] Moving forward
Hi Steven, Steven Pauwels wrote: Since now there is a wiki for marketing, I'd like to use it. Sure, feel free to use it. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Talk:Marketing It can be there but I think it would be better to use a dedicated section in the MP wiki like this one I initialized here for proposals, discussing, etc. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing--Incubator Feel free to add it and start discussions. What do you think ? Thanks! Cristian Steven P - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Cristian DRIGA == OpenOffice.org Romanian Native Language Project Lead [EMAIL PROTECTED] ro.openoffice.org www.openoffice.org --- Attorney at Law - Iasi, Romania Phone: +40.78.87.000.60; +40.747.49.88.94 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.kfacts.com/driga/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Moving forward
Chad Smith schreef: Hello John, On 2/5/06, John McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Chad - I think its your name on the pages - thanks for setting up http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing No problem. I like wikis. They are fun and inviting. I mean literally every page says "Edit Me!" Okay, maybe no exclaimation point, but that's how I see them. there's a lot of expertise in marketing on this list. Agreed! There are some brilliant minds on this list. Let's see if we can use the wiki to collate this expertise, provide 'best of breed' examples to those who are new to the black art, and generally move from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nice choice of words. -- - Chad Smith http://www.gimpshop.net/ Because everyone loves free software! Since now there is a wiki for marketing, I'd like to use it. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Talk:Marketing Steven P - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: * When people asked the MP lead why she fired a MarCon the issue was sent to the CC. Ian and Adam asked Laurent for the CC to intervene. The CC did not ask to see this and sent the issue back to the MP. I could be mistaken, but I really think that Ian and Adam were asking for procedures; not for the CC to ask Jacqueline to tell us why she fired Ryan. In fact, the CC dislikes intervening in a project's affairs. I brought the issue of the DLS to the CC because it involved money and a decision had to be made soon. Ryan didn't ask for money. He said he wanted to go at his own expense. * As Jean just said, only a very few people can modify the MP site. Have people asked or volunteered? Well, this is a bit tricky. If people leave because they are tired or stressed by the way the project is managed, it would be wrong of me to identify them. On the other hand, if I don't, you may think I'm making this up. Hmm... well, I'll tell you that two were web developers. One wanted to work on usability and another on a simplified interface for IZ. One wanted to work on a "classifieds" project to attract more volunteers. One was a good artist. One wanted to write documentation. One was a MarCon who got fired. One used to be marketing lead. And one was an OASIS OpenDocument TC member who brought an offer from the TC to partner with OOo Marketing. But these examples shouldn't be necessary. Jean just wrote about her experience. Chad wrote about his. Steven wrote about his. Ian used to spend money on booths to promote OOo and got his motives questioned for it and told not to do that again. So on the last conference he went to he didn't. I used to spend 40 hours/week on OOo, doing QA, or writing documentation, or web pages, or bi-weekly IRC talks, or tech support. Today I don't. Although I'm still subscribed to the list, if you've lost 35 of those hours to another project, that's like losing two volunteers. Most of the people here are volunteers. They do not want to be in a community or on a list where there are constant fights, constant battles and some fear. You don't think that is an apt description of your email? No need to lose your temper Louis. If you think I'm wrong simply say so. I think that the project is a Cathedral and gave reasons. You are welcome to disagree politely. If you do not like the OpenOffice.org project Daniel, why do you stay here? OOo is an important project and I'd like to see it succeed. I participate in a way that I feel will help the project most. For example, by pointing out barriers to participation. That's the same thing that most people in this thread are doing. Well, good for you. Perhaps one day you will be as popular as OOo. In the meanwhile: do not bother us with more of your baseless attacks. I'm pretty sure I didn't attack anyone. I certainly didn't say anything bad about any individual. I can't imagine why saying that the project is a Cathedral is an attack. If I may give you some friendly advice, please consider the tone of your emails. Some people might take those as an attack, which is not what you want. Cheers, Daniel. -- /\/`) http://oooauthors.org /\/_/ http://opendocumentfellowship.org /\/_/ \/_/I am not over-weight, I am under-tall. / - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Moving forward
Hello John, On 2/5/06, John McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Chad - I think its your name on the pages - thanks for setting up > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing No problem. I like wikis. They are fun and inviting. I mean literally every page says "Edit Me!" Okay, maybe no exclaimation point, but that's how I see them. > there's a lot of expertise in > marketing on this list. Agreed! There are some brilliant minds on this list. Let's see if we can use the wiki to collate this > expertise, provide 'best of breed' examples to those who are new to the > black art, and generally move from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nice choice of words. -- - Chad Smith http://www.gimpshop.net/ Because everyone loves free software!
Re: [Marketing] OOo at digital library conference in Spain
On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 08:17 -0500, Lars D. Noodén wrote: > OOo could have a presence at the 10th European Conference on Research and > Advanced Technology for Digital Libraries (ECDL) which will be held in > September. > http://www.ecdl2006.org/ Unfortunate use of ECDL as the title as most people will think its to do with an IT qualification! > If there is someone here who might find themselves in Alicante, Spain in > September, the deadlines for posters, tutorials and demos have not passed: > http://www.ecdl2006.org/tutorials.jsp > http://www.ecdl2006.org/posters.jsp > > Seeing as OOo now supports OpenDocument and that five library associations > in the US felt the OpenDocument in important enough that they drafted a > letter of support to Massachusetts, that might be one topic, or the > database front-end, Base, or, the bibliographic reference functions, or > the licensing of OOo and OpenDocument. > > However, even just an overview of the advantages OOo could have for > libraries (both staff and visitors) might be an option. > > Some of the main themes this year are: > > # System architectures, integration and interoperability. > # Information organization, search and usage. > # Multilingual information Access and Multimedia Information Handling. > # User studies and system evaluation. > # Digital archiving and preservation: methodological, technical and legal > issues. Spain would be a good place to go as I visited twice recently and they are very friendly to Open Source migration. I could probably go but it would need some Spanish native speaker support. -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMS Ltd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Marketing] OOo at digital library conference in Spain
OOo could have a presence at the 10th European Conference on Research and Advanced Technology for Digital Libraries (ECDL) which will be held in September. http://www.ecdl2006.org/ If there is someone here who might find themselves in Alicante, Spain in September, the deadlines for posters, tutorials and demos have not passed: http://www.ecdl2006.org/tutorials.jsp http://www.ecdl2006.org/posters.jsp Seeing as OOo now supports OpenDocument and that five library associations in the US felt the OpenDocument in important enough that they drafted a letter of support to Massachusetts, that might be one topic, or the database front-end, Base, or, the bibliographic reference functions, or the licensing of OOo and OpenDocument. However, even just an overview of the advantages OOo could have for libraries (both staff and visitors) might be an option. Some of the main themes this year are: # System architectures, integration and interoperability. # Information organization, search and usage. # Multilingual information Access and Multimedia Information Handling. # User studies and system evaluation. # Digital archiving and preservation: methodological, technical and legal issues. -Lars Lars Nooden ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Software patents endanger the legal certainty of software. Keep them out of the EU by writing your MEP, keep the market open. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Marketing Wiki Sections
On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 14:21 +0200, Cristian Driga wrote: > Hi Ian, > > Ian Lynch wrote: > > On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 13:56 +0200, Cristian Driga wrote: > > > > > > > I think we just need to publicise this as far and wide as possible over > > the next few days so people know about it and start using it. Sunday > > might not be the best day but there is a marketing job to do in getting > > the new facilities known so they get used and then flourish. > > > > I agree that Sunday is not a good time. I tried to have a basic startup > for those having some time to spend during the weekend. > > *One proposal about publicising:* > - Let's first limit this to MP only for now and get some good example of > using the wiki going. > - If all the community jumps now on the wiki it might not be so good. I think it would be a nice problem to have ;-) Ok, no problem with starting conservatively, let's see how it goes. > We > are talking here about implementing a new tool for the community and it > would be wise to have some procedures in place prior to moving to all > the projects. > > Chad rushed and published that on discuss even if I asked him to wait a > bit and think it over together. > > What do you think ? I don't think putting it on discuss will cause too many problems. I have a feeling we are not going to get immediately swamped with help - I hope I'm wrong - it will take people time to get into the habit of using the Wiki and we need to keep reinforcing th habit. -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMS Ltd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Marketing Wiki Sections
Hi Jean, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: Cristian Driga wrote: Hi Jean, I tried that before I wrote my earlier note, but was unable to edit the title of the page. Maybe I misunderstood. Unfortunately I don't have time to work on it any more right now. I'm signing off for the night, and I may not get a chance to get back online (except possibly to get and send some email) for several days because I am starting on a trip to the USA tomorrow (with some stops on the way). Sorry, my mistake. The right command should've been "move". I just did it and also edited the link on the main page. Apologies for the mistake. Have a good night and thanks for being with us. ;-) Cristian --Jean . -- Cristian DRIGA == OpenOffice.org Romanian Native Language Project Lead [EMAIL PROTECTED] ro.openoffice.org www.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Marketing Wiki Sections
Cristian Driga wrote: Hi Jean, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: Cristian Driga wrote: I have created a section in the MP wiki homepage named Incubator: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing--Icubator I hate to say this, but you spelled "Incubator" wrong in the name of that page. I would fix it, but I don't know how. Ouch :( Thanks for letting me know. Would you like to edit it ? Login to the wiki: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/mwiki/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&returnto=Special:Userlogout Go to that page: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing--Icubator And use the edit button (tab) at the top of the page..as highlited in the instructions I pasted on the MP wiki homepage. Thought it's time to let you try. Just let me know if I am to do it. I tried that before I wrote my earlier note, but was unable to edit the title of the page. Maybe I misunderstood. Unfortunately I don't have time to work on it any more right now. I'm signing off for the night, and I may not get a chance to get back online (except possibly to get and send some email) for several days because I am starting on a trip to the USA tomorrow (with some stops on the way). --Jean - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Marketing Wiki Sections
Hi Ian, Ian Lynch wrote: On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 13:56 +0200, Cristian Driga wrote: I think we just need to publicise this as far and wide as possible over the next few days so people know about it and start using it. Sunday might not be the best day but there is a marketing job to do in getting the new facilities known so they get used and then flourish. I agree that Sunday is not a good time. I tried to have a basic startup for those having some time to spend during the weekend. *One proposal about publicising:* - Let's first limit this to MP only for now and get some good example of using the wiki going. - If all the community jumps now on the wiki it might not be so good. We are talking here about implementing a new tool for the community and it would be wise to have some procedures in place prior to moving to all the projects. Chad rushed and published that on discuss even if I asked him to wait a bit and think it over together. What do you think ? Best, Cristian -- Cristian DRIGA == OpenOffice.org Romanian Native Language Project Lead [EMAIL PROTECTED] ro.openoffice.org www.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Marketing Wiki Sections
Hi Jean, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: Cristian Driga wrote: I have created a section in the MP wiki homepage named Incubator: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing--Icubator I hate to say this, but you spelled "Incubator" wrong in the name of that page. I would fix it, but I don't know how. Ouch :( Thanks for letting me know. Would you like to edit it ? Login to the wiki: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/mwiki/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&returnto=Special:Userlogout Go to that page: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing--Icubator And use the edit button (tab) at the top of the page..as highlited in the instructions I pasted on the MP wiki homepage. Thought it's time to let you try. Just let me know if I am to do it. Cristian --Jean - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . -- Cristian DRIGA == OpenOffice.org Romanian Native Language Project Lead [EMAIL PROTECTED] ro.openoffice.org www.openoffice.org --- Attorney at Law - Iasi, Romania Phone: +40.78.87.000.60; +40.747.49.88.94 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.kfacts.com/driga/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 22:01 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > John McCreesh wrote: > > On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 21:27 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > > > >>Maybe you could put something on the Marketing Project's home > >>page that leads people to the Marketing page on the wiki? > > > > > > Will do once as soon as there's some content there ;-) > > > I thought the wiki was as much for brainstorming as for anything > else. If you want people to contribute, they need to know it's > there. Not everyone reads this list all the time, even if they > are generally active on the project. Agreed, I'll publicise it through various lists I'm on. If everyone does this we should get more people involved. In fact it would be an excellent way for schools to contribute and the kids can use the contribution to count towards their Gold INGOT certification. It'll probably take some time to get this going fully but I'll get onto it. -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMS Ltd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Marketing Wiki Sections
Cristian Driga wrote: I have created a section in the MP wiki homepage named Incubator: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing--Icubator I hate to say this, but you spelled "Incubator" wrong in the name of that page. I would fix it, but I don't know how. --Jean - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Marketing Wiki Sections
On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 13:56 +0200, Cristian Driga wrote: > Hi, > > Pushing it even further for those fearing that ideas would get lost in > the email threads: > > I have created a section in the MP wiki homepage named Incubator: > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing--Icubator > (note the naming convention with Marketing-- in front for easy search > results by "marketing") > > ..as a place for immediate writing. I think that a proper usage would be > to add your name and the subject with bullet in the way of creating the > real page where you propose the idea for debating. What do you think ? > > Something like: > * [[Marketing--Incubator-Cdriga-Title of idea here]] - short description > if needed > > Instructions on adding a new page are on the MP wiki main page > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing > > Personally I would preffer writing in my own user section but others > might want to see it immediately under marketing auspices. > > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing > > > Opinions ? Other suggestions on organizing this section ? > If not, guess at least here we can start expressing ourselves in the > first place. I think we just need to publicise this as far and wide as possible over the next few days so people know about it and start using it. Sunday might not be the best day but there is a marketing job to do in getting the new facilities known so they get used and then flourish. -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMS Ltd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
John McCreesh wrote: On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 21:27 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: Maybe you could put something on the Marketing Project's home page that leads people to the Marketing page on the wiki? Will do once as soon as there's some content there ;-) I thought the wiki was as much for brainstorming as for anything else. If you want people to contribute, they need to know it's there. Not everyone reads this list all the time, even if they are generally active on the project. --Jean - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] Marketing Wiki Sections
Hi, Pushing it even further for those fearing that ideas would get lost in the email threads: I have created a section in the MP wiki homepage named Incubator: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing--Icubator (note the naming convention with Marketing-- in front for easy search results by "marketing") ..as a place for immediate writing. I think that a proper usage would be to add your name and the subject with bullet in the way of creating the real page where you propose the idea for debating. What do you think ? Something like: * [[Marketing--Incubator-Cdriga-Title of idea here]] - short description if needed Instructions on adding a new page are on the MP wiki main page http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing Personally I would preffer writing in my own user section but others might want to see it immediately under marketing auspices. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing Opinions ? Other suggestions on organizing this section ? If not, guess at least here we can start expressing ourselves in the first place. :) Best, Cristian Cristian Driga wrote: Hi, Let's see how we should build the tree of the MP wiki pages so that they can be easily found/understood/read. I mean: We should start with major categories or, let's name it sub-projects of the marketing activity ? * Something like: - PR - Marcon - Strategy - Product features - Events - Art Project (linking to the existing pages) - etc ? ...each with it's own subset of current To-Dos, etc * Also some general contributor's guidelines ? *One category I see for sure is *Brainstorming* or *Incubator*: I see it as the corner where we gather the ideas and refine them. This definitely needed because many new or old MP contributors would like to go on and start writing and organizing ideas and things. This could be some sort of incubator for almost anything Marketing related. * Same with Resources - in which we for instance will have the contributors profiles with skills and availability * timelines for the activities together with the volunteers taking care of them, etc. These are just a few ideas. Suggestions ? Anybody able to come out with a more coherent list ? It is important as it will help us not get a bloated wiki in just a few months. ~in the hope that this helps, Cristian -- Cristian DRIGA == OpenOffice.org Romanian Native Language Project Lead [EMAIL PROTECTED] ro.openoffice.org www.openoffice.org --- Attorney at Law - Iasi, Romania Phone: +40.78.87.000.60; +40.747.49.88.94 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.kfacts.com/driga/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 12:26 +0100, Steven Pauwels wrote: > Finn Gruwier Larsen schreef: > > > > >> So this is what I *want* to do for MP if the MP *lets* me do it: > >> > >> - change the MP wiki to be usefull because the idea gets a lot of > >> support. > >> - start a discussion on the items I find fundamental for the succes > >> of OOo marketing one by one and get a consencus. > > > > > > I'm not sure if John's latest posting was a "yes" or a "no" to Stevens > > two concrete proposals, or neither-nor, or maybe it wasn't an answer > > to these proposals at all. But personally I think the marketing lead's > > answer should be "Yes, please, go ahead. We really need guys like you > > to push OOo marketing forward". I just got out of bed so its taken a bit to catch up :-) Steven, I think you are very welcome. Perhaps some of this is a language thing. Its easy to misunderstand English if its your native language never mind if its not ;-) Christian and Chad have made a start and there are some wider implications since Stefan set up the Wiki and he is away just at the moment. That doesn't mean we can't get started and I think Christian is providing the right leadership in that by getting some headings organised. Its really just a matter of good manners to consult Stefan and to spend a little time asking for people's ideas and discussing them at this early stage. I don't think this is like some of the endless discussions of the past that got nowhere, we have a concrete task and we know broadly what we want to achieve so we can just get on and do it. I'm just considering at the moment whether we should have an entirely separate section for education or whether it should stay under marketing. In principle education should probably have its own Wiki heading, I'm just hesitant because I'm not sure how others would see this. Certainly a section where schools can edit the Wiki and say what they are doing with OOo would be a good idea, maybe with a link to their school website. Ok, I can just stick a page up but I want to think about that a bit first. -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMS Ltd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 21:27 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > Maybe you could put something on the Marketing Project's home > page that leads people to the Marketing page on the wiki? Will do once as soon as there's some content there ;-) John - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
John McCreesh wrote: I'm more than happy to test if the wiki works as a home for the MP Good on ya, John! Maybe you could put something on the Marketing Project's home page that leads people to the Marketing page on the wiki? Cheers, Jean - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
Finn Gruwier Larsen schreef: So this is what I *want* to do for MP if the MP *lets* me do it: - change the MP wiki to be usefull because the idea gets a lot of support. - start a discussion on the items I find fundamental for the succes of OOo marketing one by one and get a consencus. I'm not sure if John's latest posting was a "yes" or a "no" to Stevens two concrete proposals, or neither-nor, or maybe it wasn't an answer to these proposals at all. But personally I think the marketing lead's answer should be "Yes, please, go ahead. We really need guys like you to push OOo marketing forward". Finn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you Finn for replying for me. :) This is axactly what I mean... We are a some posts down the thread and jipiejahee, we agree to some extend, quickly put something online *without* the so needed discussion, and the say we have to discuss everything before one can do something. Well :) you guys should be happy I am persistent and not easely demotivated... My Oh My I will do something *if* I get the responsability to do it. I will not provide others with my knowledge to do what they can not do without doing what I did in the past 22 years. Steven P. I will gladly welcome any posts that do provide some information that is usefull. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Marketing] Marketing Wiki Sections
Hi, Let's see how we should build the tree of the MP wiki pages so that they can be easily found/understood/read. I mean: We should start with major categories or, let's name it sub-projects of the marketing activity ? * Something like: - PR - Marcon - Strategy - Product features - Events - Art Project (linking to the existing pages) - etc ? ...each with it's own subset of current To-Dos, etc * Also some general contributor's guidelines ? *One category I see for sure is *Brainstorming* or *Incubator*: I see it as the corner where we gather the ideas and refine them. This definitely needed because many new or old MP contributors would like to go on and start writing and organizing ideas and things. This could be some sort of incubator for almost anything Marketing related. * Same with Resources - in which we for instance will have the contributors profiles with skills and availability * timelines for the activities together with the volunteers taking care of them, etc. These are just a few ideas. Suggestions ? Anybody able to come out with a more coherent list ? It is important as it will help us not get a bloated wiki in just a few months. ~in the hope that this helps, Cristian -- Cristian DRIGA == OpenOffice.org Romanian Native Language Project Lead [EMAIL PROTECTED] ro.openoffice.org www.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Marketing] Using the OOo Marketing Wiki
Hi, To move things a bit further, I have added to the MP wiki page the basic rules we have been using for some time in the Art Project wiki. I addapded a bit to reflect the MP situation but they should be refined further (added to, edited, removed from, etc). http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing#Marketing_wiki_usage_-_basic_rules Best, Cristian -- Cristian DRIGA == OpenOffice.org Romanian Native Language Project Lead [EMAIL PROTECTED] ro.openoffice.org www.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
So this is what I *want* to do for MP if the MP *lets* me do it: - change the MP wiki to be usefull because the idea gets a lot of support. - start a discussion on the items I find fundamental for the succes of OOo marketing one by one and get a consencus. I'm not sure if John's latest posting was a "yes" or a "no" to Stevens two concrete proposals, or neither-nor, or maybe it wasn't an answer to these proposals at all. But personally I think the marketing lead's answer should be "Yes, please, go ahead. We really need guys like you to push OOo marketing forward". Finn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
Hi Steven, Steven Pauwels wrote: Hi all, I have not read the entire thread yet but as always, there are good ideas :) Perhaps it would be a good idea to read the thread throughly ? (the "wiki usage" oriented part of the thread) What has been done since you started the thread is only creating a new page indended as index/hub for the marketing part of the wiki. Chad placed some links in there as a start, but it is, of course not over yet. Nothing else has been done as we should first decide how exactly are we going to better put it to use. Dangers have been highlited as reason for having a bit more patinece (few days ?) and first participate in a process of planning. MORE: The wiki was untill now used mostly by developers. It is possible that we will create a whole Section in it for MP - afaik like a separate site or something ? I'll have to discuss that with admins but for this we'll have to wait some days as Stefan is out of town. A suggestion: If you already registered with the wiki you could use for now the page under your user name to write down (draft) things you want to discuss. You can describe there how you see the MP wiki, proposed changes, as well as other other items you find important. This way you can reference its URL in discussions and we can afterwards also copy/move in the MP wiki once we have set a basic structure for it. What do you think ? My question last week: how many times can a skilled volunteer say he wants to help out? Or should I start where I started 22 years ago? The answer right now: So this is what I *want* to do for MP if the MP *lets* me do it: AGAIN: For the wiki case it is not about letting you or not. It is about planning and coordinating with future needs in mind. Starting to write right away by everybody without a collective effort to organize things first will make us need another wiki or site in a few months. :) And we have not seen yet input from other contributors and especially the leads as it is still weekend. - change the MP wiki to be usefull because the idea gets a lot of support. What changes do you mean ? Can you describe ? - start a discussion on the items I find fundamental for the succes of OOo marketing one by one and get a consencus. I will drop the effort on a posted item if the discussion goes viral or back to fundamentals on infrastructure. (because I want to change it and I will do so starting with the marketing wiki.) Now I want to know how to change the wiki (not the content, the wiki). :) What do you mean ? Changing sections ? Appearance ? The software ? I do not know yet how the wiki was configured in therms of liberty to change anything. I know one can create new pages, etc. For the rest of it we'll have to wait untill Stefan gets back. Meantime can you give us more details on what do you intend to do ? As I said above here on the list (under *another thread* please) or if you preffer the wiki: in your personal page of the wiki for now ? Thanks for willing to contribute! Best, Cristian Steven P -- Cristian DRIGA == OpenOffice.org Romanian Native Language Project Lead [EMAIL PROTECTED] ro.openoffice.org www.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Marketing] Broken link on Marketing home page
Yeah, I know, I should probably file an issue, but this is such a classic example of what I've been saying about taking longer to file an issue (or write this note) than it would to fix the problem... In the "Events" section of the Marketing Project's home page is the sentence "Further conferences and events that OpenOffice.org is planning to attend are included on our Calendar." Calendar is a link to a page that does not exist... in fact, the URL for that page is http://marketing.openoffice.org/conference/pageyettobeuploaded.html Cheers, Jean - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 05:35 +0200, Cristian Driga wrote: > In the same time I really want to have input from John and Jacqueline > also before we go further with big changes. I'm more than happy to test if the wiki works as a home for the MP John - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Marketing] Moving forward
Chad - I think its your name on the pages - thanks for setting up http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Marketing I'm quite happy to focus my activities there and see if it works better as a home for the Marketing Project. So folks, Chad has set a challenge - there's a lot of expertise in marketing on this list. Let's see if we can use the wiki to collate this expertise, provide 'best of breed' examples to those who are new to the black art, and generally move from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to [EMAIL PROTECTED] John - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Marketing] OOo - where should it go...
Louis Suarez-Potts schreef: Hello, On 2006-02-04, at 13:06 , Ian Lynch wrote: On Sat, 2006-02-04 at 18:38 +0100, Steven Pauwels wrote: These recurring discussions mean that there is a need... and the CC refuses to egnoledge this need. Seems so - glad you said it not me though ;-) maybe we could use moodle? Nice and adaptable, but I am sure there are other tools. If we need hosting with php and mysql support, I will provide it. Maybe there should be a fundamental re-think about how participation occurs. In education here all the talk is about Web 2.0 and it changing the paradigm for learning because students can freely form their own learning communities and easily collaborate to create new information. Wikipedia shows that you can give more freedom than was thought sensible and by opening up the contributions more resources come to the table. There has been quite a lot of talk about Wikis - maybe its time to analyse all aspects of the project and decide which essentially need to be secure through SSH tunnels etc and which can be openly participative Wiki-style. There is a potential reduction in costs for Sun in doing this because it reduces the demand for Collabnet. That of course might be a political thing in that Collabnet might not want to reduce its contribution but even if the same resource was committed better value would be achieved because that resource would be more focussed and one would therefore expect better quality in that area of the work. Hosting a Wiki is really trivial, getting one started is trivial, the non-trivial bit is to get agreement from the CC to do it under the name of OpenOffice.org. Personally I can't see any disadvantage in things like the marketing project and documentation projects being wikis. Probably a number of the others too but I don't know enough about them. The advantage would be that it would be easier to contribute and any lowering of the barriers to participation has to be a good thing. I'm kind of lost here... we *have* wikis. I have pointed members of this project to our main page and we (the OOo community) use the site a lot: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Main_Page So, what is the problem, then? We have used them for writing press releases and for other marketing things, like synchronizing the 2.0.1 release and now will surely use it for the 2.0.2 release and beyond. We also use it for other marketing related things. You might also want to look at the recent discussions in the CC. We touch on the things you mention. Best, Louis Hi all, I have not read the entire thread yet but as always, there are good ideas :) My question last week: how many times can a skilled volunteer say he wants to help out? Or should I start where I started 22 years ago? The answer right now: So this is what I *want* to do for MP if the MP *lets* me do it: - change the MP wiki to be usefull because the idea gets a lot of support. - start a discussion on the items I find fundamental for the succes of OOo marketing one by one and get a consencus. I will drop the effort on a posted item if the discussion goes viral or back to fundamentals on infrastructure. (because I want to change it and I will do so starting with the marketing wiki.) Now I want to know how to change the wiki (not the content, the wiki). :) Steven P - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
