Re: [dev] Community Council Elections 2010-06: Announcement and Nomination

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello everyone,

I would like to thank both Jan and Frank for nominating candidates.
I think we have two perfectly legitimate candidates for the elections
of the Product Development Representative. 

May the best of the two win!

Charles-H. Schulz. 

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Re: [dev] Can application work well in the system without installing OOo !

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le 15 mai 2010 à 19:46, eric b a écrit :

> 
> Le 15 mai 10 à 19:23, Charles-H. Schulz a écrit :
>> 
>> 
>> I think that if you want to stick to c ++ you may find more resources here: 
>> http://www.odftoolkit.org ; otherwise I'll coin in the project I'm working 
>> on:
>> http://www.lpod-project.org  :-)
>> 
> 
> 
> Can we see your code ?
> 
> /me curious


Sure: http://lpod-project.org/get-the-code#get-the-lpod-source

Charles.




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Re: [dev] Can application work well in the system without installing OOo !

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Qzi er,




Le 15 mai 2010 à 19:13, Alexandro Colorado a écrit :

> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Qzi er  wrote:
> 
>> I am thinking how to develop a application with odb inside using c++!
>> 
>> Maybe it will be used in some machines without OOo !   It can just record
>> the data without open it !
>> 
>> I will open it in my machine !   can it ?
>> 
> 
> Have a look at JODConverter or PyODconverter they do exactly that. Except is
> more oriented to just manipulate formats, you could arguably do something
> else.
> http://www.artofsolving.com/opensource/jodconverter



I think that if you want to stick to c ++ you may find more resources here: 
http://www.odftoolkit.org ; otherwise I'll coin in the project I'm working on:
http://www.lpod-project.org  :-)

Best,

Charles.


> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Mathias Bauer 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 13.05.2010 16:39, Qzi er wrote:
>>> 
 Can application work well in the system without installing OOo !
 
 I want to develop a appliciont using mfc&  OOo uno , but I don't know
>> how
 can't it work well  !
 
>>> 
>>> OOo runs without installing it, it's enough to copy another installed
>>> instance. Of course this copied instance then will have no system
>>> integration. So doubleclicking ODF documents will not start OOo and -
>>> perhaps more important for you - simple bootstrapping of UNO connections
>>> won't work and you have to connect "manually", explicitly specifying
>> OOo's
>>> location.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Mathias
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer
>>> OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
>>> Please don't reply to "nospamfor...@gmx.de".
>>> I use it for the OOo lists and only rarely read other mails sent to it.
>>> 
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 作智慧的减法 ...
>> 
>>   体会生活的微妙的富足  ...
>> 
>> 嗯 ...
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Alexandro Colorado
> OpenOffice.org Español
> http://es.openoffice.org



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[dev] Re: [native-lang] Results for the Community Council Elections (2010-03)

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Er... sorry. Congratulations Olivier Eike, and thank you very much
Thorsten.

Best,
Charles.


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[dev] Re: [native-lang] Results for the Community Council Elections (2010-03)

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Congratulations Olivier and Thorsten!

Charles-H. Schulz.

Le Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:12:46 -0400,
Christoph Noack  a écrit :

> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> the results of the elections held earlier this month are now
> available. Two of the three candidates have been confirmed to
> represent "you" in the Community Council. Unfortunately, one member
> hasn't been confirmed in his role. But first the detailed results ...
> 
> >>> Native Language Confederation Representative
> 
> Candidate: Olivier Hallot
> Results: 36 Yes, 2 No (116)
> 
> >>> Code Contributor Representative
> 
> Candidate: Eike Rathke
> Results: 57 Yes, 0 No (69)
> 
> >>> Product Development Representative
> 
> Candidate: Thorsten Behrens
> Results: 12 Yes, 28 No (50)
> 
> 
> The observers, Sophie Gautier and Drew Jensen have all approved and
> confirmed the results. My thanks to them and to Stefan Taxhet, who
> managed the voting apparatus that allowed us to vote.
> 
> Please join me in welcoming Olivier and Eike! I have no doubt they are
> all quite familiar to you, and I and everyone else on the Council,
> hope that you will grow more familiar with them and the working of the
> Council. The time in the Council gives us the chance to develop a good
> relationship.
> 
> And this good relationship is also true with regard to Thorsten - we
> all know him, respect him, and value his contributions. The
> constituency of the "Product Development Representative" just
> expressed their opinion that there might be another community member
> who better fits this role. My personal thanks to Thorsten for being a
> candidate!
> 
> In the next Community Council meeting it will be decided how to
> proceed with regard to the "Product Development Representative". Most
> likely, the whole elections for this role will be re-done. Thus,
> other community members might consider their nomination.
> 
> If you want to know more about the current elections, the underlying
> process, or the Community Council - please have a look at:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Elections/2010-03
> 
> 
> One last thing: Dear project leads, please forward this mail to your
> project members if you think they are interested in. Thanks in
> advance!
> 
> Cheers,
> Christoph
> 
> 
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
> 
> 



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Re: [dev] Re: OpenOffice.org Product Development

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le Thu, 1 Apr 2010 01:03:35 +0200,
Thorsten Behrens  a écrit :

> Cor Nouws wrote:
> > >What I currently see is a big chasm between Sun/Oracle people, who
> > >unanimously reject my candidature on various grounds, and the
> > >"rest
> > 
> > Are you really sure about that?
> > I've only read three or four opinions. And not all that strong.
> > So IMO your statement does make the contrast look harder than it is.
> > And that is - sorry that I have to notice - contrary to what you
> > state below here.
> > 
> Hi Cor,
> 
> hm, at least this is my perception. I saw four public statements,
> ranging from mounting a campaign, endorsement of that campaign, 
> seeing conflict of interest, and being a bit scared. I may have 
> managed to appear a bit less scary, but have not yet received 
> any indication that, with the clarifications, I may now be 
> acceptable. ;)
> 
> Charles' question was about my view, which is subjective of course,
> and my brain reading capabilities are limited. I'd love to be proven
> wrong, and profoundly apologize to those I might have unintentionally
> misrepresented.
> 
> Thanks for keeping an eye on this, and the moderation,
> 
> -- Thorsten

Thorsten, it's actually not what I have asked you. I have asked you how
you feel about the OOo community, and its unity. You don't need brain
reading capabilities for this :-)  So I'm waiting for your answer here,
although for me, your nomination is perfectly acceptable.

 As Eric just replied to this thread I would however like to clarify a
 point here: FOSS does not entail democracy. It never had, never will,
 and no, your patches don't *always* have to be accepted.

 

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Re: [dev] Re: OpenOffice.org Product Development

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello all,


Le 31 mars 2010 à 17:56, Mathias Bauer a écrit :

> 
> Hi Sophie,
> 
> Sophie wrote:
> 
>> I feel that currently there is a deep smog on our communication flow, 
>> see Rene's feeling today, mine on l10n, others on lingu list, may be a 
>> not so well balanced mail from Bjoern, whatever the great work he has 
>> done and the not answered question from Volker about odficons01. I guess 
>> we have some strange times to pass along. That should not disturb us 
>> from what we have to do: keep the community strong, working in 
>> confidence, attach importance to what really has, and forget the rest.
> Your last sentence really is a wise one and I thank you very much for
> it. But at the beginning of this paragraph you mixed very different
> things and put them together though they have completely different
> backgrounds.
> 
> I don't know much about the things on l10n, linguistic and
> odficons, but my own experience from may years lets me think that they
> are the usual consequences of bad communication and mistakes on what
> side ever - just normal life that happens at times, not only currently.
> (Doesn't make it better, but also not an extraordinary event). The
> problems mentioned in the release status meeting are somewhat similar,
> though I dislike the reaction to them in the meeting.
> 
> If people make mistakes, this shouldn't be brushed under the carpet.
> Nevertheless discussions about the mistakes should happen in a
> respectful manner and with an appropriate tone. So if you mention Rene's
> feeling in the meeting, what about the feelings of those being talked to
> so rudely as it is documented in the IRC logs of several meetings?
> 
> Now to the other things that IMHO should be seen as something different.
> 
> I don't think that Björn's mail was unbalanced. There is only one person
> (Eric Bachard) that obviously read it as a personal attack. As Eric is
> already known to take nearly everything personally, I wouldn't give that
> too much attention. And Björn and I have reacted immediately to Eric's
> mail (though it was quite impolite), just to make things clear.
> Moreover, all the work from Björn has been presented and discussed on
> the dev list upfront, nothing was done in secrecy. I can't see how we
> could have done that much better (perhaps except of adding a footer
> "This mail is not an attack against the education project or one of its
> members" to every mail sent to an OOo list). There will always be people
> who misunderstand even the most balanced mails you can think of. If you
> are looking for not so well balanced mails: take the reply from Eric to
> Björn (though IMHO naming it "not so well balanced" would be an euphemism).
> 
> And Martin's blog? He has reasons not to vote for Thorsten and IMHO he
> is totally entitled to have them. He made them public to demonstrate
> that his "no" vote for Thorsten is not founded in personal problems with
> him, on the contrary: he doesn't want to give his vote to Thorsten in
> spite of the respect and sympathy he has for him in person. I can't see
> anything wrong here.
> 
> Best regards,
> Mathias
> 


I have so far refrained to intervene, but now I think it's the good time for me 
to do so.

First of all, and sorry if I sound like an aloof officier of the European 
Union, I would like to salute and commend the quality of the discussion here. 
People could have lost their temper and would not have formulated their 
thoughts adequately.

Sophie indeed highlights issues that may have a totally different background, 
but she is right in taking this approach. We face a period of uncertainty in 
this project, and we feel we could be more ambitious while at the same time not 
have to do the same mistakes over and over again. This is why it is important 
to stick together as a community. The branding initiative was an unfortunate 
issue that Stefan and Cor are working on to make sure this will not happen 
again. I for one am happy with the new logo but it's about process, not about 
what we like better. 

Regarding Thorsten, I did not want to speak up, because of my complicated and 
quite public relation with his employer. True, I have been a vocal critic of 
Novell, for several reasons that are out of context here. 
The main issue that has been formulated, is that Thorsten is an engineer that 
may not be the best person for Product Development representative. Another one 
is that he and his employer have been creating what became over the year a fork 
of OpenOffice.org, regardless of how inaccurate or extreme this word might be 
for some. So these could be two valid reasons for me to vote against Thorsten 
and I would understand if some would do so. 

I may surprise some here, but I have to remind that Thorsten has been regularly 
contributing patches and bug reports  ever since he started his work at Novell. 
What's more, he has been an enthusiastic member of our community, and a 
knowledgeable person to turn to. His involvement with

Re: [dev] Help improve OpenOffice.org

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Emilia,

Please feel free to join the Slovak community here:
http://sk.openoffice.org/

Regards,

Charles-H. Schulz

Le Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:07:22 +0100,
Emília Alezárová  a écrit :

> Good day
> 
> I would like to help you produced OpenOffice.org 3.2 In my opinion,
> it would be good if he had a better design around too, as is
> Microsoft Office. To make it easier to use. To help and help what is
> it? were entirely in Slovak. To be more capacity than it had before.
> To put data into a format Microsoft Office 2003. For a higher quality
> than before. That grammar was better.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> And I hope you at least somewhat helpful.



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Re: [dev] A Brand Refresh for OpenOffice.org (was Re: Changes to Site/Product Elements due to Oracle Acquisition)

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Andrea;

Thank you for your contribution. Please contribute on the branding
mailing list indicated on this page:   
  http://marketing.openoffice.org/brand

Nothing will come out of whatever you will submit on the
dev@openoffice.org as it is not made for that.

Thanks,
Charles.

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Re: [dev] information

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Bokar,

there are many possible ways for you to contribute to Openoffice.org. 
See here: http://contributing.openoffice.org/

If you're not a native english speaker you may find it more convenient
to contribute in a community of your language. I assume, given your
name that you might be interested by this one:
http://ro.openoffice.org 

But there are others, of course.

best,
Charles-H. Schulz. 

Le Sun, 28 Feb 2010 06:47:49 -0800 (PST),
Bokar Ovidiu  a écrit :

> To who it may concern,
> 
> I would like more information about joining the contribution on
> OpenOffice, if is possible.
> 
>  
> Thank you,
> Ovidiu B.
> 
> 
> 
>   


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[dev] Re: [native-lang] Call for Nominations for Community Council Election

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello all,

I would like to nominate myself for the "Lang" seat in the next
Community Council.

I will be  available if anyone has questions during the presentations
period. 

Best Regards,

Charles-H.Schulz,
Lead of the Native-Language
Confederation, OpenOffice.org 


Le Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:47:48 -0400,
Louis Suarez-Potts  a écrit :

> 
> All:
> 
> A new election cycle for the Community Council begins now. We, the  
> Council members, hope that we can meet the new members in Orvieto,  
> Italy, at OOoCon 2009 early this November. To do that, however, we
> may have to bend the timing rules a little and accelerate things
> when possible.  But for now.
> 
> This election cycle inaugurates a new Community Council. Not only
> will we have one more member (to 10) but what we do has changed over
> the year and we have now a greater ability to promote OpenOffice.org  
> around the world. Being part of the Council is to be part of the  
> governing board of what is widely understood to be one of the most  
> important Free and Open Source Software projects in the world. We
> urge you to join us.
> 
> 
> **Call for Nominations**
> 
> On behalf of the Community Council, I would like to announce the new  
> round of elections for the Council and start the process by asking
> the OpenOffice.org Community members to nominate those they think
> would best contribute both to the Council and to the OpenOffice.org
> Community.
> 
> You may nominate yourself. We define membership in our Guidelines.
> [0] This election cycle, one of several, begins with this call for  
> nominations. After a week, candidates will present themselves and
> then we will vote. We detail all this in the Election Process wiki.
> 
> A copy of this message will be posted
> tohttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/council/items/call_for_nominations_20091013
>  .
> 
> *** The period for nominations ends 24:00 UTC 20 October.***
> 
> 
> **About the Council**
> 
> The Council is our governing board and among other things, it helps  
> resolve conflict among projects and people and develop guidelines
> for the smooth operation and growth of the Community. Our charter
> explains what we can and cannot do.[1] The current members are
> lighted on the Council's home page. [2]
> 
> Until now, the Council's work has been fairly quiet and its scope  
> limited. But as the OOo project has matured and grown, our focus has  
> evolved. For instance, we now have in place procedures for budgeting  
> and allocating funds for a variety of Community-sponsored events and  
> doings. (These funds derive from donations given by users as they  
> download OpenOffice.org or otherwise independent expressions of  
> support and satisfaction; the funds are the Community's, held in
> trust by the Council.)
> 
> For this cycle, two standing Council members need to be replaced and  
> one fresh member to be elected.
> 
> * Sophie Gautier and André Schnabel, both exemplary contributors to  
> the Project and Council and members of OpenOffice.org almost since
> its inception, have resigned, effective upon their replacement. I do
> not think that we, the Council and the Community, can thank them
> enough for their achievements in makingOpenOffice.org the community
> and global force that it is. My thanks to them both.
> 
> 
> **Rules**
> 
> The rules for the process are detailed in a wiki on the subject. [3]  
> This election inaugurates a new Council, as the number of members
> has changed, from nine to ten, as has their characterization.
> 
> Several categories of OpenOffice.org contributors make up the
> Council membership. Those categories cover the breadth of
> OpenOffice.org. All but one, the permanent Sun representative, are
> elected by community vote. In this cycle, one of the Native Language
> Confederation Representative (aka "Lang") seats (there are two) is up
> for election. As well, we are asking for nominations for one Code
> Contributor Representative and one Product Development Representative.
> 
> ** The point of the categories of representatives is to ensure that  
> the breadth of OpenOffice.org is represented and that its key  
> constituencies find a voice on the Council. We are not saying nor do  
> we wish to imply that you can only nominate and vote for someone in  
> your constituency. Rather, we hope and anticipate that the work done  
> by developers, marketers, translators, document writers, localizers,  
> business people and so many of the other contributors constituting
> our varied constituencies is represented on the Council. We will
> thus strive to promote the election process on the relevant public
> lists, as I detail below.**
> 
> The nomination process starts now and ends 20 October (24:00 UTC).  
> Nominations and the attendant discussions should be conducted on  
> popular public lists, such as disc...@openoffice.org,  
> dev@openoffice.org and so on.
> 
> We will be using tried and true technology for the actual voting:
> the Survey

[dev] Re: [native-lang] Call for Nominations for Community Council Election

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello all,

I would like to nominate myself for the "Lang" seat in the next
Community Council.

I will be  available if anyone has questions during the presentations
period. 

Best Regards,

Charles-H.Schulz,
Lead of the Native-Language
Confederation, OpenOffice.org 


Le Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:47:48 -0400,
Louis Suarez-Potts  a écrit :

> 
> All:
> 
> A new election cycle for the Community Council begins now. We, the  
> Council members, hope that we can meet the new members in Orvieto,  
> Italy, at OOoCon 2009 early this November. To do that, however, we
> may have to bend the timing rules a little and accelerate things
> when possible.  But for now.
> 
> This election cycle inaugurates a new Community Council. Not only
> will we have one more member (to 10) but what we do has changed over
> the year and we have now a greater ability to promote OpenOffice.org  
> around the world. Being part of the Council is to be part of the  
> governing board of what is widely understood to be one of the most  
> important Free and Open Source Software projects in the world. We
> urge you to join us.
> 
> 
> **Call for Nominations**
> 
> On behalf of the Community Council, I would like to announce the new  
> round of elections for the Council and start the process by asking
> the OpenOffice.org Community members to nominate those they think
> would best contribute both to the Council and to the OpenOffice.org
> Community.
> 
> You may nominate yourself. We define membership in our Guidelines.
> [0] This election cycle, one of several, begins with this call for  
> nominations. After a week, candidates will present themselves and
> then we will vote. We detail all this in the Election Process wiki.
> 
> A copy of this message will be posted
> tohttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/council/items/call_for_nominations_20091013
>  .
> 
> *** The period for nominations ends 24:00 UTC 20 October.***
> 
> 
> **About the Council**
> 
> The Council is our governing board and among other things, it helps  
> resolve conflict among projects and people and develop guidelines
> for the smooth operation and growth of the Community. Our charter
> explains what we can and cannot do.[1] The current members are
> lighted on the Council's home page. [2]
> 
> Until now, the Council's work has been fairly quiet and its scope  
> limited. But as the OOo project has matured and grown, our focus has  
> evolved. For instance, we now have in place procedures for budgeting  
> and allocating funds for a variety of Community-sponsored events and  
> doings. (These funds derive from donations given by users as they  
> download OpenOffice.org or otherwise independent expressions of  
> support and satisfaction; the funds are the Community's, held in
> trust by the Council.)
> 
> For this cycle, two standing Council members need to be replaced and  
> one fresh member to be elected.
> 
> * Sophie Gautier and André Schnabel, both exemplary contributors to  
> the Project and Council and members of OpenOffice.org almost since
> its inception, have resigned, effective upon their replacement. I do
> not think that we, the Council and the Community, can thank them
> enough for their achievements in makingOpenOffice.org the community
> and global force that it is. My thanks to them both.
> 
> 
> **Rules**
> 
> The rules for the process are detailed in a wiki on the subject. [3]  
> This election inaugurates a new Council, as the number of members
> has changed, from nine to ten, as has their characterization.
> 
> Several categories of OpenOffice.org contributors make up the
> Council membership. Those categories cover the breadth of
> OpenOffice.org. All but one, the permanent Sun representative, are
> elected by community vote. In this cycle, one of the Native Language
> Confederation Representative (aka "Lang") seats (there are two) is up
> for election. As well, we are asking for nominations for one Code
> Contributor Representative and one Product Development Representative.
> 
> ** The point of the categories of representatives is to ensure that  
> the breadth of OpenOffice.org is represented and that its key  
> constituencies find a voice on the Council. We are not saying nor do  
> we wish to imply that you can only nominate and vote for someone in  
> your constituency. Rather, we hope and anticipate that the work done  
> by developers, marketers, translators, document writers, localizers,  
> business people and so many of the other contributors constituting
> our varied constituencies is represented on the Council. We will
> thus strive to promote the election process on the relevant public
> lists, as I detail below.**
> 
> The nomination process starts now and ends 20 October (24:00 UTC).  
> Nominations and the attendant discussions should be conducted on  
> popular public lists, such as disc...@openoffice.org,  
> dev@openoffice.org and so on.
> 
> We will be using tried and true technology for the actual voting:
> the Survey

[dev] Re: [native-lang] Preparing the council elections - looking for observers

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello André, all,

As I will run as a candidate I will not apply as an observer.

Best Regards,
Charles-H. Schulz.


Le Mon, 04 May 2009 08:15:10 +0200,
André Schnabel  a écrit :

> 
> Hi,
> 
> something I forgot:
> Although there are no formal restrictions to this role, you should
> not apply as observer, if you are going to candidate for one of the
> council seats (just to prevent conflict of interests).
> 
> André
> 
> 
> André Schnabel schrieb:
> > Hi,
> >
> > you may have noticed that we are are going to prepare the upcoming 
> > council elections. (See [1] for some rough notes.)
> >
> > According to our election process proposal [2] the election will be 
> > lead by a supervisor who is assisted by two observers. To "spread"
> > the work we are looking for people who like to act as observer.
> > The main duty would be to keep track of the election process,
> > verify that the elections are correct and fair - and after all
> > verify the vote calculation and approve the result.
> >
> > As we are going to have three seats elected, we may have more than 
> > just two observers.
> >
> > If you are willing to help, please drop a mail until end of the
> > week.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Andre
> >
> >
> >
> > [1] 
> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Elections/200904 
> >
> > [2] 
> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal
> >  
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org
> >
> 
> 
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> 
> 




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Re: [dev] Re: [project leads] On Modularization ...

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Kay, Christian,


Le Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:43:02 +0200,
Kay Ramme  a écrit :

> 
> Hi Charles,
> 
> Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> > 
> > I have read the wiki pages, and while I'm all for this kind of
> > vision, I am not sure if I understood this correctly:
> > modularization for you seems to essentially takes place at the
> > building level, and not so much an  application level. This would
> > mean, for instance, that we could have several "sub-versions of
> > OOo", but this would be different from having an office suite with
> > "modular" applications (with less common dependencies, etc.). Am I
> > getting this right or am I making things too complex?
> You get it right, though you are missing the pre-build thing ...
> 
> First goal is to ease building OOo and variants in a static way, by 
> developing a "build helper" and by extending/adapting the configure 
> script as well as the code.
> 
> If you have taking a look at what "configure" currently offers wrt 
> Mozilla, you see that you actually can re-use pre-build binaries. To 
> improve and simplify the overall build experience, we would like to 
> generalize this approach to other parts of OOo as well. Some obvious 
> candidates for this are the build-system and Uno, as developers 
> typically don't change them so much, thus having them pre-build would 
> reduce build times etc.
> 
> To make things simple, we just would like to achieve the above in a 
> static way, e.g. during "configure". If it proves viable, we
> certainly would like to convert this approach to be more dynamic,
> e.g. offering the different pre-build modules as extensions (or
> similar) ...
> 
> Let's just start with something simple, things tend to become complex 
> over time anyway :-)


They do indeed. I just wanted to clarify where this initiative was
going and you have my support.

Best,
Charles.


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[dev] Re: [project leads] On Modularization ...

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Kay,



Le Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:29:47 +0200,
Kay Ramme  a écrit :

> 
> OOo Folks,
> 
> by now OOo has been regarded as the only real alternative office
> suite, sometimes hard to build, often admired for its feature
> completeness, somewhat beaten because of the memory footprint,
> understood to have one of the most classical graphical user
> interfaces ever, loved to recover MS documents, and so on ...
> 
> Many words may be used for OOo, though small is not with them :-)
> OOo is a huge project, with lots of code and a more or less monolithic
> architecture. (Even :-) the ESC understands that size does not only
> has advantages (though it sometimes matters :-).
> 
> (see http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/ESC_dashboard)
> 
> It seems a hero (or five) is needed ... we (Cynthia, Xiuzhi, LiuTao,
> Ingo and I) want to move out to fill this position and therefore need
> your (mental) support ...
> 
> ... we are not (yet) many copies, but we also have a plan, and we do
> look human etc. :-)
> 
> The Goals are:
> - Adapt the OOo source to enable (more) custom-tailor products.
> - Support custom-tailor products in the build system by
>   - checking out what is needed only,
>   - building what is needed only,
>   - re-using intermediate or final deliverables.
> - Enable pre-build intermediates and their usage.
> 
> And this is what we want to do first:
> - Create a "build helper", responsible for
>   - getting the source,
>   - getting prerequisites and pre-builds,
>   - configuring the sources, taking care of dependencies ...,
>   - and (optionally) building it.
> - Add missing/useful configuration switches (e.g. for headless
> support).
> - Re-factor according to needs (e.g. writer only etc.).
> 
> This "build helper" may be compared to the Linux kernels menuconfig /
> xconfig, first configure it extensively, ideally in a graphical way, 
> than build it.
> 
> Later on we may
> - rework SCP to configure the sources more dynamically,
> - provide pre-build intermediates to reduce build times for many,
> - disentangle the OOo applications, and
> - do even more ...
> 
> We would like to create a(nother) (incubator) project as the umbrella
> for our enterprise, which we would like to call
> 
>  "Modularization"
> 
> See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Modularization for a
> first sketch.
> 
> It may be important to mention, that we want to keep things SIMPLE.
> Please give feedback or show interest!, this is needed according to
> our rules.
> 
> 
> May the force be with you ... argh - wrong movie :-)

I have read the wiki pages, and while I'm all for this kind of vision,
I am not sure if I understood this correctly: modularization for you
seems to essentially takes place at the building level, and not so much
an  application level. This would mean, for instance, that we could
have several "sub-versions of OOo", but this would be different from
having an office suite with "modular" applications (with less common
dependencies, etc.). Am I getting this right or am I making things too
complex?

Anyway; you have my interest :-)

Best,
Charles.

>


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Re: [dev] suggested contribution

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Peter,

welcome to the OpenOffice.org community!
I may perhaps ask a stupid question, but would it be possible to have  
your application available as an extension (or as several extensions)?


Best,
Charles-H. Schulz.

Le 16 janv. 09 à 20:03, Peter Ambagtsheer a écrit :



hello,

I have made an ERP application for my small business.

Some collegues ask if I will 'port' or tailormake it for their  
practice. Which I won't. it's not my mission.


But I am willing to donate it to the OpenOffice Project. If you are  
interested, you could convert it to an small size ERP template for  
OO Base. Currently it is written menu driven in MS Acces.


Now I won't find the resources to lead such a project. But i can  
donate it and where needed give explanations. You may find  
programmers and perhaps even finance people / students willing to  
contribute or achieve a good job reference.


The package is project /activity based and has the fundamantal  
structure for invoicing, activity registration, VAT calculation, P&L  
and balancing. And some more.
Currently it is filled with 5 years of administration and some 12 Mb  
in size. Without data I estimate it would become 1 or 2 Mb.
making a tax report is now the work of some 5 minutes. With making  
financial statements or YTD reports its just pushing one button.
When writing it i put ease on the first prority and found a  
technique to convert single entry bookkeeping to double entry  
administration. its really "one entry does it all" work.


It was written in Dutch but should be easily convertible to English.

A 'bonus' is that you can see which funcionality really pays off  
when writing (D)base applications.


If you are interested, let me know.

Yours Sincerely

Peter Ambagtsheer

MENTASPEX
assessment coaching training
www.mentaspex.nl

Drs. P.R. Ambagtsheer
Postadres:
Het Kasteel 270
7325 PS Apeldoorn
T 055 360 3263  Werkdagen van 08:30 tot 17:30 uur
F 055 360 4705
cont...@mentaspex.nl

Bezoekadres:
Lange Amerikaweg 67
7332 BP  APELDOORN

Bedrijfs Psychologisch Adviesbureau Ingeschreven KvK Veluwe en  
Twente nr 8124788

Geregistreerd bij het Nederlands Instituut  van Psychologen


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[dev] Pictures of the OOo3 Launch Party

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,

for those who couldn't attend, and those who could as well, here's  
some pictures of the event:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ooo3launch/

Best,
Charles-H. Schulz.


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Re: [dev] Re: [discuss] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Becoming an (Incubator) Project

[Charles-H. Schulz]

André,
Le 8 oct. 08 à 12:14, Andre Schnabel a écrit :



Hi,

 Original-Nachricht 

Von: "Charles-H. Schulz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




I can only second Kay's words.  We cannot stay on the users' desktop
the way we do today, as the state of the art is changing. This does
not mean that services such as Google Docs are the necessary  
answer; I

believe they serve a specific market and so do we. But the key to
OOo's future and relevancy lies in hybrid use cases. This involves an
online strategy combining wikis, online editing tools and so on.



Regarding the [EMAIL PROTECTED] project I'd say it is a nice idea. (Fully  
aware, about what "nice" means).


Regarding the OOo's future and relevant use cases - I disagree, that  
this lies in hybrid desktop / web use cases. Yes - we need to work  
on that, but this is not the key market to become relevant.


The key and relevant use case is integrated workflow with other  
busines applications (ERP, accounting, controling, project  
management, CRM ...).


André

PS.: I second the proposal for [EMAIL PROTECTED] to become an incubator  
project - but I have no voice on that ;)


You do, actually :) . I would not say that we disagree on what the  
future will look like; I'd rather put it that way: what you express is  
not a future concern, it is an immediate concern. The hybrid notion is  
a future concept :-)


Best,
Charles.

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Re: [dev] Re: [discuss] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Becoming an (Incubator) Project

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,
Le 8 oct. 08 à 11:24, Kay Ramme - Sun Germany - Hamburg a écrit :



Hi Mathias,

Mathias Bauer wrote:

I think the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" project at least in its current state is still
bound to OOo as it is the central building block. As long as this  
is not
becoming a subject to change it makes a lot of sense to keep it in  
the

OOo project. But YMMV.
it is currently bound to the OOo suite, as the suite is used to  
actually do all editing etc., though this is not necessarily the  
case, e.g. it could use AbiWord or any other application capable of  
dealing with ODF and WebDAV. It is bound to the OOo site, as I am  
bound to the OOo site and as long as people think that it is a  
valuable addition :-)


I know it may sound ?foolhardy?, but I think that we may need to  
extend the scope of the OOo site somewhat, to be able to stay  
competitive in the market and in the Open Source movement.


If you remember our mission statement,

"To create, as a community, the leading international office suite  
that will run on all major platforms and provide access to all  
functionality and data through open-component based APIs and an XML- 
based file format."


you see, that our defined goal basically only is about developing a  
classical desktop application. As the world moves forward, we can  
see that the WWW and HTML (and is flavors) as well as Ajax etc. are  
becoming more and more important. In my little world this threatens  
ODF and OOo and any other "classical" document format and  
application suite. Luckily we have the chance to integrate into the  
WWW world, as OOo already supports WebDAV etc. and as ODF is quite  
expressive, though there are some (glue) pieces left ... namely  
something on the server, e.g. the [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-)



I can only second Kay's words.  We cannot stay on the users' desktop  
the way we do today, as the state of the art is changing. This does  
not mean that services such as Google Docs are the necessary answer; I  
believe they serve a specific market and so do we. But the key to  
OOo's future and relevancy lies in hybrid use cases. This involves an  
online strategy combining wikis, online editing tools and so on.



Cheers,

Charles.

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[dev] OpenOffice.org 3.0 Launch Party

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello,

OpenOffice.org, the Region Ile de France, Silicon Sentier and Sun  
Microsystems invite you to celebrate the release of OpenOffice.org 3.0  
and the 8th Anniversary of the OOo Project.
A party will take place on the 13th of October in Paris, France, at  
the Region Ile de France's Main Hall.


More information and registration link here: http://fr.openoffice.org/launch3

We hope to see all of you!

Charles-H. Schulz,
Lead, of the Native-Language Confederation, OpenOffice.org

Links:
http://iledefrance.fr
http://siliconsentier.com

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Re: [dev] Re: Grand Concept, splitting up the monolith, dynamic content

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,

Bernd,

Le 24 sept. 08 à 17:44, Bernd Eilers a écrit :




Kay Ramme wrote:

Hi there!


Hi Charles,
[... snip ...]



did you see Leonard Madas "Grand Vision" document yet?
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User_Experience/ 
Grand_Concept


Just went through that thing just to still find the same old  
prejudice about our internal architecture.


Am still thinking that anyone who still comes up these days  
presenting with that 'new(?) idea' to split up the than in such  
new(?) concept strategy so called 'monolithic-OOo' didn´t understand  
the concepts of shared libraries of modern operating system and didn 
´t understand the basic concepts of UNO and OpenOffice.org's  
component model.


Just to repeat that here for the few-hundred-and-and-a-dozeneds- 
times for those who still do not know: just because there is one  
soffice executable and a shared framework to open documents for all  
OpenOffice.org modules doesn´t mean every functionality available  
has to be loaded on startup at once.


It´s all already 'modularized' and there do exists already ongoing  
efforts to split up the installation files into packages which  
depend of each other - been there done that! - so what? This is not  
something that is such a great new idea that we would not already  
working on since a long time.


Also I do not currently see why to bring concepts like the Lively  
Kernel into play when talking about dynamic content in Impress or  
other modules. Impress and other modules already have an API that  
you can program it with which is defined in UNO and available to all  
supported programming languages which have a language binding  
available for UNO. I more and more get the feeling that there´s a  
strange kind of battle going on these days named something like "on  
which virtual machine and API´s do you want to run your virtual  
machines and API´s today?" or "Here´s the right stack to use for  
your stack!" After all if I want to extend something like impress  
with dynamic content features I just need SOME sort of API to do so  
and preferable support for some programming language which I can  
know how. Why care whether that is something based on UNO and  
OpenOffice.org existing UNO API´s and the existing OpenOffice.org  
extension features plus a few possible future enhancements thereof  
or something tight to a new API on top of some other new API based  
on javascript and SVG/HTML support in firefox or on an new API based  
on top of installed java support or an API based on top of installed  
Flash support or an new API based on support for IE and Active-X  
controls being there or .



Mind joining us? http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Pinneberg

Best,
Charles.



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Re: [dev] Re: Pinneberg status update

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Kay,

Le 24 sept. 08 à 12:48, Kay Ramme a écrit :



Hi Charles,

charles-h.schulz wrote:

Hello,
I finally completed the first step of Pinneberg, the work on future  
versions of OpenOffice.org. Feel free to contribute here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Pinneberg
this partly describes what I would like to see us achieving with the  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] :-) Some things are new though, did you see Leonard Madas  
"Grand Vision" document yet?


http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User_Experience/Grand_Concept


I didn't but I'm reading it; I don't have his emaila address though.




Feel free to add more high-level objectives to the list. Meanwhile,  
we have to categorize them as explained on the page. Kay, Thorsten,  
Sophie, we can start to work on the existing list now; but other  
volunteers are welcome. We may want to setup another mailing list,  
although I'm unsure about this.
I just contacted Louis about creating an incubator project for the  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] stuff, if others agree on this being a good thing, we may  
want to use these mailing lists etc. for communication ...


+1 from my side.





Next IRC meeting: 19th of october, 5pm CET, Freenode, [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
In my calendar this is a Sunday (though not necessarily sunny ;-),  
and I just noticed that I am on vacation this date anyway ;-)


Hmm. How about the 22nd?






Best,
Charles-H. Schulz.


Best regards

 Kay

P.S.: Are you coming to China?


Actually no, but I would have loved to.

Best
Charles.

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[dev] Reminder: IRC session on Pinnberg

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello,

The IRC session on the future concepts of OOo starts in twenty  
minutes, on Freenode, [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Hope to see you there !

Charles-H. Schulz.


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Re: [dev] charter discussion ?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le 16 sept. 08 à 17:13, Andre Schnabel a écrit :



Hi,

 Original-Nachricht 

Von: "Charles-H. Schulz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




That's some progress, but again, where do Category leads fit?  
"Product

Development Representative"? Can you confirm something about it?


sorry, I obviously neet to prepare an "entry page" so that we can  
easily

find all information.

As said - all project memebers (including category leads) are  
eligible.
The difference is in the electorate or constituency. Category leads  
are

mentioned for the electorates:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal#Council_Constituencies


Ah, I had never seen that page. So do you (and others ) confirm that  
according to this council draft that the Category leads of the  
Incubator project can be elected as a product development  
representative and the Category leads of the NLC as a NL  
representative? . Then we have a basis for discussion. I am not  
exactly satisfied with the numbers of NLC represenatives as I wrote  
earlier, but I'll start the conversation on this on [EMAIL PROTECTED]








Well, I don't really agree with that but if in general the NLC does
not see anything wrong with this I won't object...
Do you think we could perhaps discuss this on [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Yes, please. But please try to focus on this special topic.
It is very hard to follow the discussion on 4 or more lists.


Sure. I'll keep it on focus.

best,
Charles.

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Re: [dev] charter discussion ?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello André,
Le 16 sept. 08 à 15:58, Andre Schnabel a écrit :



Hi Charles,

 Original-Nachricht 

Von: "Charles-H.Schulz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


For eligibility of Cathegory leads:
they are eligible, as *everey* community member is eligible.
(if this is not obvious in the current draft, feel free to change
the wording)


Thank you, but I have to say that not only this is not obvious, but I
wouldn't even know where to change the wording in the proposal. Could
you please elaborate on this? Your help would be much welcome.


http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Charter_Proposal

4. Council Members ...
 2.  Terms Of Service  ...
   1.  Elections 
  1. Each OpenOffice.org community member is eligible for  
election.

and
  3. Each community member is allowed to nominate candidates  
(including self-nomination).


That's some progress, but again, where do Category leads fit? "Product  
Development Representative"? Can you confirm something about it?







more NLC representatives:

... To me and although it's a bit indirect on the paper NLC
does represent as well the voice of localizers; these people are
developers as well, and one could see this extended to the people in
charge of the QA... but you know all this :-)

Do you understand my concerns?


Yes - I understand, but do not share them ;)
Anyway - my voice is not the only one that counts.

The proposal (number of representatives) was mainly derived from a  
suggestion
done by khirano at [EMAIL PROTECTED] (sorry, I would need to search for the  
link).
We not not much answers on the topic,  comments came from Sophie,  
Ian Lynch

and me (afair). So we had three contributors from NLC commenting
(and the discussion open for others to comment). The composition of  
seats was

considered to be "fair" at this time (and nobody argued against this).



Well, I don't really agree with that but if in general the NLC does   
not see anything wrong with this I won't object...

Do you think we could perhaps discuss this on [EMAIL PROTECTED]





And - this is also no troll - no matter what group will get how many  
seats - it always
will be "unfair" to some of the groups (at least many might feels  
so, when

thinking about their own group).
The council would only be efficient, if all members understand that  
we are one
community that needs to work together and needs to respect each  
other. This
means to listen to the concerns and problems of the "other groups"  
but heading

for compromises at the same time.


I totally agree and don't get me wrong, I won't be the voice for  
"balkanization". My concern was aimed at balance, not at division.


Best,
Charles.

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Re: [dev] charter discussion ?

[Charles-H . Schulz]

Hello André,
Le 16 sept. 08 à 12:29, Andre Schnabel a écrit :



Hi Charles,

 Original-Nachricht 

Von: "Charles-H. Schulz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




+1 from my side. I would however appreciate a discussion on my
proposal on the eligibility of Category leads and more NLC
representatives (in the Talk section of the charter proposal).


Sorry, I found you comments in the talk section just a few days ago
and did not comment on it yet.


no problem. John also wrote some comments there I think.




For eligibility of Cathegory leads:
they are eligible, as *everey* community member is eligible.
(if this is not obvious in the current draft, feel free to change  
the wording)


Thank you, but I have to say that not only this is not obvious, but I  
wouldn't even know where to change the wording in the proposal. Could  
you please elaborate on this? Your help would be much welcome.






more NLC representatives:
I second your opinion, that NLC is a vers strong and important part
of the OOo community, doing a lot of work. And (as I still feel "at  
home"
in the NLC) I'm in favour of a strong position of the NLC in the  
council.

But - every part of the OOo community is important and needs a good
representation within the council. If we do not want a "unlimited"  
number of

council members, we had to remove some other seats. No matter how you
deal with this - it would be somewhat unfair to any of the groups.

I think, two "NLC" representatives are ok, as there is one good thing
about NLC: we are used to be multitalents :)
Means - people from NLC do not only work in NLC projects, but do a lot
of work in other projects (documentation, qa, marketing,  
development ...)
I think, all these can perfectly be represented by other council  
members

(Code / Project contribution reps). The NLC-Representatives may focus
on the very special situation of NLC teams (e.g. multi cultural  
topics,

language barriers ...)

Hope this answers some of your concerns.



I agree with what you said. We are not anymore in a situation where  
NLC was a secluded area. Today you are a very example of a  
"multitalent", and there are of course many others. We see them on the  
QA, marketing , dba, porting, api, and documentation projects to name  
just a few. I am not very worried about the yield of the NLC as such.  
There is no case to be made any more on this, as this has already been  
done by the contributions of our members over the past years. Yet I  
would like again to outline my initial intent: the real issue here is  
the one of representativity. That's not a troll, don't worry. I know  
people stemming from the native-language projects are everywhere; some  
even own cws. But it does not change the fact that NLC has too few  
representatives *relative to what the other constituencies have*. The  
outcome of this is that the interests and the voice of native-language  
projects may be very well represented as it has always been but its  
actual influence is diminished by the number of representatives. One  
cannot open a -meaningful and important- discussion on how to reform  
the representativity of the CC by only taking into account code  
developers. To me and although it's a bit indirect on the paper NLC  
does represent as well the voice of localizers; these people are  
developers as well, and one could see this extended to the people in  
charge of the QA... but you know all this :-)


Do you understand my concerns?

best,
Charles.




André

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Re: [dev] charter discussion ?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le 11 sept. 08 à 18:52, Christian Lohmaier a écrit :



Hi *,

On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Martin Hollmichel
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]

regarding the new draft of the charter
()

there is a paragraph 4.1.1 "Three "Code Contributor Representatives"
[...]
From my perspective with active code contributor a people  
described, who
constantly contribute code to the project under the general rules  
of the

project, [including SCA, cws-process]

Is this something we can agree on as being an active code  
contributor for

OpenOffice.org ?


+1 from my part


+1 from my side. I would however appreciate a discussion on my  
proposal on the eligibility of Category leads and more NLC  
representatives (in the Talk section of the charter proposal).


Best,
Charles.

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[dev] IRC session on Pinneberg

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,

this is just a reminder of the IRC session on OOo's future concepts   
that will be held next Friday. More info here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOo_Next#4._IRC_sessions_.2F_Work_items


Best,
Charles.


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[dev] Register to the NLC conference in Bolzano

[Charles-H . Schulz]

Hi,

For those who haven't already done it, you may register to the  
OpenOffice.org Native-Language Conference in Bolzano, Italy. It will  
take place on the 3rd of October. Please register before the 17th of  
September!

More info here: http://www.plio.it/ooonlm08

Best,
Charles-H. Schulz.


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Re: [dev] charter discussion ?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Martin,

What you are saying makes sense. You should perhaps add it to the Talk  
section of the Charter draft: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Talk:Community_Council/Items/Charter_Proposal


Best,
Charles.

Le 10 sept. 08 à 13:03, Martin Hollmichel a écrit :



sorry, for stepping in that lately.

by looking at the current charter there are mainly two areas of work  
described for the Community Council:


* legislative tasks like representation of the community,  
coordination with various entities, voting, doing proposals


* judiciary tasks like arbitrate between different parties inside  
and outside the community.


IHMO one big part is missing, the executive part and if I review the  
work of the CC this is the main issue within the CC: Doing the  
actual work, e.g. doing the new elections, make a proposal for  
something (budget, year plan, policies, etc.) is not making that  
progress we would like to see. The voluntary approach that the  
members of the CC are also doing the actual work does simply not  
work. Typically the current CC members have a lot of other jobs/work  
so I think most of them are already looking for what they can do  
less instead of taking over more responsibilities and work.


I would propose to delegate the actual work to "officers" which are  
preparing proposal and let the CC make the final decisions. In that  
way we can establish subject matter experts which are willing and  
able to do the actual work and make the CC at the same time more  
effective. What I can think of that we establish at least following  
officers:
* Exec Officer: preparing meetings, minutes, elections and other  
administrative stuff

* a Secretary: minutes, invitations, etc.
* Treasurer
* Conference planning officer: planning and coordinating various  
conferences

* Infrastructure Officer:
* Engineering/Development Officer:
* Localization and Internationalization Officer:
* Legal Officer: legal issues, e.g. trademark policies etc.
* public relations officer:
other Offices (ODF, can be added as needed

These Officers can be elected out of the community based on the  
principles of meritocracy. Officers then would have the right to  
speak in the CC. The Officers also would be the owner of the  
according budget.Officers can build working groups.


I know that this does not address the concerns regarding the  
discussion who's electable for the council but I also think that  
this is not the main point to get the CC to get the work done. From  
my experience from the last years in the CC I just can say that I'm  
not able to follow _and_ to work on all the stuff we had on the  
agenda, what I would like to do is either to judge and vote about  
well prepared proposals or to work in just one area for the CC. And  
having the proposals is the harder work to do. But sceptic as I am,  
I don't think that we'll find people for the all above proposed  
Offices. And I just don't think that the proposed changes alone in  
the charter for making more people electable for the CC makes the  
work in CC better.


Martin

Michael Meeks wrote:

Hi Martin,

I notice, at:

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council_Minutes#Minutes

there is a section:

[snip]
"Work on modification of the CC charter

The draft for the proposal is now on the wiki. Martin will bring the
discussion on the charter to the dev@ list in order to get more  
feedback

from developers (core and non core developers) about the interest of
that group to get involved in issues not related to source code.
AI: Martin to bring the discussion on dev@
[snip]

The draft proposal is here:

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Charter_Proposal

is there already a thread discussing this ?

Thanks,

Michael.





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Re: [dev] Pinneberg status update

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Eike,

Le 5 sept. 08 à 00:18, Eike Rathke a écrit :


Hi charles-h.schulz,

On Tuesday, 2008-09-02 15:39:18 +0200, charles-h.schulz wrote:

I finally completed the first step of Pinneberg, the work on future  
versions of OpenOffice.org. Feel free to contribute here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Pinneberg


Was the name Pinneberg chosen to ensure that no Hamburg developer will
ever touch it?


No. Although I have heard rumours that a team of developers is aiming  
at taking over OOo and they work in Pinneberg ;-)


Best,
Charles.



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Re: [dev] IRC session on "OOo online"

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le 14 juil. 08 à 23:32, Thorsten Behrens a écrit :



On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 08:24:42PM +0200, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
Kay Ramme, Louis Suarez-Potts and I would thus like to invite you  
to an
IRC session on Monday 21st, 5pm CET (Hamburg time), 4pm GMT to  
initiate a

discussion on these topics and perhaps go forward on some ideas that
could emerge then.


Hi Charles,

excellent idea - just to clarify, 4pm GMT is 6pm CEST (Hamburg time
currently).



Oops... I mixed up the summer glitch. So I confirm that the session  
will start at 17:00 Hamburg time (Germany)


Best,

Charles.

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[dev] IRC session on "OOo online"

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello,

Following Kay Ramme's demonstration of the OOo "online ODF editor",  
the need has been felt to discuss OOo's online aspect and more  
generally what could come in the next major releases of OOo.
Kay Ramme, Louis Suarez-Potts and I would thus like to invite you to  
an IRC session on Monday 21st, 5pm CET (Hamburg time), 4pm GMT to  
initiate a discussion on these topics and perhaps go forward on some  
ideas that could emerge then.
The channel would be on Freenode, [EMAIL PROTECTED] . A wiki page has been  
opened: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOo_Next and I  
encourage you to start adding content to it.


Best Regards,

Charles-H. Schulz.


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Re: [dev] lxr.go-oo.org

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Terrence,

go-oo.org does not depend from openoffice.org . Please ask Michael  
Meeks from Novell about your issue.


Best Regards,

Charles-H. Schulz

Le 5 juil. 08 à 15:48, Terrence Enger a écrit :



Greetings,

Not strictly on topic here, so I apologize in advance.

For the last several days, every identifier search at lxr.go-oo.org  
has

returned ... zero definitions, zero references.

I do not see a contact listed on the search page (and the existence of
class `contact` makes code results dominate a google search).  To whom
should I whine, I mean complain, I mean offer my useful feedback about
the site ?

Thank you, all, for your attention.  Suggestions welcome.

Cheers,
Terry.



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Re: [dev] Microsoft released Word file format spec

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,
Le 30 juin 08 à 12:43, Moty a écrit :



Release date Jun 27 2008.
See http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc313153.aspx for the  
full spec

(553 pages !)



Thanks for the link. May I just point out that it's just one part of  
the spec (the structure) and that MS claims all sorts of patents on it?


best,
Charles.



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Re: [dev] Hi, I'd like to know how do i contibute openoffice.org

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Dear KyuNam,

Please also feel free to check http://ko.openoffice.org

Best,
Charles-H.Schulz.

Le 17 juin 08 à 03:46, 조규남 a écrit :


Hi, This is kyuNam Cho from Korea.

I'm a software developer in samsung electronics.
These days I have interest in OpenOffice.org and develop core of  
Writer.


But I don't know how to start this work.
Also don't know start with what, where.

Finaly I find message in OpenOffice.org.
If I don't know how to start contirbute, Send email to dev@openoffice.org
So, I send mail to you.

Plz, give to me guide to start contiribute OpenOffice.org.
Plz, Let me know what can I study.

Best Regard
KyuNam




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Re: [dev] Is it in your todo list?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,


Le 9 juin 08 à 12:26, Bernd Eilers a écrit :


Suren Khachatryan wrote:

Hello OpenOffice,


Hi there!

I would like work on translating OpenOffice to my native language -  
Armenian.

Do you know anyone working on it?


You can find the Armenian OpenOffice language community and  
OpenOffice.org localized to your native language here:


http://hy.openoffice.org

I am not sure about how active that part of our community really is  
as as there seems to have been no traffic on their mailing lists at  
all.


Languages statuses for all languages someone in the OpenOffice.org  
community has been working on is usually collected here:


http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Languages

[EMAIL PROTECTED] is listed as a contact for Armenian language  
there but the status information is missing.



Does it have some priority for you?
Regards,
Suren


Regards,
Bernd Eilers



I know the project is more or less active, but they would do with  
another contributor. Suren, please go ahead and join the HY team!


Best,
Charles.

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Re: [dev] Localized Windows Build

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Huda,

make sure to subscribe to the localization list  
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) where people will be able to help you out as  
well.


Best,
Charles.
Le 29 avr. 08 à 11:33, Huda Sarfraz a écrit :


Hi,

I'm trying to build a localized (Urdu, ur-PK) version of OpenOffice
(OOH680_m12) for Windows. I have translated PO files for OOE680_m6  
which I

want to use for the localized build.

So far, I have successfully built the en-US version for OOH680_m12  
using the

instructions available at:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_OOo_with_Cygwin_on_Windows

I have also been able to make another build (ur) in which the layout  
is RTL

by using some of the Arabic localization files and the instructions
available at:
http://www.khmeros.info/tools/localization_of_openoffice_2.0.html

Now I am trying to incorporate some of the translations into the  
build. This

is what I tried:

  1. Entered only one translation into the PO files for OOH680_m12
  (entered the tooltip text which appears on the OpenOffice Writer  
shortcut)

  2. Created the GSI_ur.sdf file using translate-toolkit 1.1.1
  3. Tried to merge the translation into the source using
  ./transex3/scripts/localize -m -l ur -f GSI_ur.sdf
  4. Created the "ur" build

I get the ur build with the RTL layout, but I cannot see the  
translation
that I entered, and I did not get errors in the process described  
above. Can

someone please let me know how I should proceed now.

If there are any instructions available for incorporating  
translations into
a localized build, please let me know. I could not find any online,  
and I am
following the instructions I have found in the book, PAN  
Localization Guide

to Localization of Open Source Software which has a chapter on
OpenOffice.org Localization.

Thanks & Regards,
Huda




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Re: [dev] Re: [OOoCon2008] Possible need to postpone the OOoCon (November 5 to 7)

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le 8 avr. 08 à 08:37, Maho NAKATA a écrit :

From: "pj @ OOo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [OOoCon2008] Possible need to postpone the OOoCon  
(November 5 to 7)

Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 13:55:59 +0800


Dear OOo community,

after evaluating the pros and cons of several possible dates to  
hold the
OOoCon, we are now planning to welcome you to Beijing from November  
5 to 7.


The main reason to eye November is the fact, that flight prices  
normally

drop significantly after October. Another important reason for us is,
that we are quite sure, that OOo 3.0 can be celebrated at the OOoCon.


Just +1
better for me :)



It turns out to be indeed a convenient date. The only question that  
comes to my mind is what's the weather like in November (and please  
don't answer "polluted").


Best,

Charles.
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Re: [dev] ODF Compatability ODFellowship

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le 21 mars 08 à 22:12, Cor Nouws a écrit :

Charles-H. Schulz wrote (21-3-2008 22:02)

No problem; but keep in mind this test suite is unfortunately not  
finished - it would be great if such work could restart on it...


Indeed. On the list there is no reply on Frank's comment with all  
the problems, announcing that it is finished/repaired.

So is the test suite currently in the same unusable state??



It is usable for simple documents but it is definitely not finished yet.

Best,
Charles.
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Re: [dev] ODF Compatability ODFellowship

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le 21 mars 08 à 20:14, Cor Nouws a écrit :

Cor Nouws wrote (20-3-2008 17:17)

Charles-H. Schulz wrote (20-3-2008 17:02)
Don't have any right now but check out the OASIS ODF Adoption TC  
mailing lists.
Thanks Charles. Can be useful, but can't be the thing that I've  
seen earlier ..


Apologies Charles. It was that list. Though I've never read it  
before, somehow I must have seen some of the messages. Frank Meies  
pointed me to them, as you may have seen.


No problem; but keep in mind this test suite is unfortunately not  
finished - it would be great if such work could restart on it...


Best,
Charles.
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Re: [dev] ODF Compatability ODFellowship

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Cor,


Le 20 mars 08 à 16:43, Cor Nouws a écrit :

Hi *,

I remember to have seen a mail / reply / complaint about a sort of  
ODF compatibility test by the - IIRC - ODFellowship.


My own archives don't hold it. But it must be know by someone here ..

Any link? Thanks!




Don't have any right now but check out the OASIS ODF Adoption TC  
mailing lists.


best,
Charles.



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Re: [dev] Thank you for voting Beijing

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le 10 mars 08 à 05:18, pj @ OOo a écrit :


Hi Charles,

Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

...



I hope you'll be able to make it to Beijing. I'm really looking  
forward to meet you again.
I hope I will be able to, but am afraid I will have to ask for  
funding...


no problem, that's exactly, why we have this program. I would also  
like to encourage other readers to consider our funding program  
before disregarding attendance right away. We will work on this with  
top priority to provide detailed informations ASAP, we know a lot of  
planning depends strongly on this issue.




Thanks Peter,

Charles.
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Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Michael,
Le 10 mars 08 à 12:20, Michael Meeks a écrit :


Hi Charles,

As always it's entertaining talking with you.

On Fri, 2008-03-07 at 16:02 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

Yes, it is one; I thought it was a community event. While technical
discussions are perennial to our project, I don't see the need for
segregating the community between hackers and non hackers;


As I understand it this is a normal practice for organic communities:
eg. the Linux Kernel Summit[1] - has purely technical talks, or say  
the
Gnome Developers Summit[2], or perhaps aKademy (AFAIR originally  
billed

as a "developers conference"). There are of course a myriad of
hack-fests, and other highly technical conferences on many topics
everywhere.

	Are you suggesting that these are fundamentally evil ? that  
developers

meeting to talk, enjoy each others' company, work together and discuss
technical detail is bad ? it's not as if we are excluding anyone -  
just
warning ahead of time this will be technical, and our core  
constituency

is hackers. Clearly broader conferences have their place too.


I'm just suggesting to respect the way we work inside OOo, that's all.






every part of our community is legitimate


Did I suggest it was not ?






Honestly, I'm happy to talk politics[1] vigorously: will you
share an hour slot with me for a debate on the future of  
OpenOffice in

Beijing ?


I will be more than happy to do so


Great; I suggest the Parlimentary debating style[3] and a proposal of
the form:

 "Contribution to OpenOffice.org by entities with
  diverse motivations is a strength not a weakness"
[ or you can cast it negatively if you wish ].

I'm sure Sun, or someone can provide an impartial speaker to compare
it: I'm not sure how well it would go over to a predominantly non  
native

speaking audience, though with slides we might get somewhere: sounds
fun.



Well, I suggest both of us work on this a bit later on with details,  
etc. We should have to fill out some call for papers proposal, etc.  
And that would happen in a few months, if I'm not misstaken.
I am busy at the moment on OOXML; so is your employer but on the other  
side of the fence, as usual.


Best,
Charles.



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Re: [dev] Thank you for voting Beijing

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le 8 mars 08 à 14:19, Eike Rathke a écrit :


Hi Charles-H.,

On Friday, 2008-03-07 15:10:35 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:


do you happen to know if a specific mailing list for the conference
(something like [EMAIL PROTECTED]) has opened or will be  
opened?


There's [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Thanks, was already on that one, Peter got the right one.

Cheers,

Charles.

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Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le 7 mars 08 à 16:09, Pavel Janík a écrit :


Hi,

Besides, the scheduling -roughly at the same time than the OOoCON  
if I understood things well- is also counterproductive.


no Charles, you haven't even looked at the Wiki to see when it is...  
But you have to say your wors anyway.


:-(


My fault, wasn't sure of the dates as I wrote.

Best,
Charles.
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Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Michael,
Le 7 mars 08 à 15:35, Michael Meeks a écrit :


Hi Charles,

On Thu, 2008-03-06 at 19:39 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

- it will be 'hackers' only


Well, given the content of the talks and company, I'm
confident it will be much less interesting to non-hackers, so modulo
some really patient people coming, you're prolly right, is that a
problem ?


Yes, it is one; I thought it was a community event. While technical  
discussions are perennial to our project, I don't see the need for  
segregating the community between hackers and non hackers; every part  
of our community is legitimate (see your [2]) So, I don't understand  
why this event should be constrained within the limits and among the  
people you define.






- nobody will be able to speak politics (ah, those darned politics
and, always pointing out awkward things about your employer!
Why do they even exist?)


Honestly, I'm happy to talk politics[1] vigorously: will you
share an hour slot with me for a debate on the future of OpenOffice in
Beijing ?


I will be more than happy to do so, although debating with somebody  
from Microsoft could have probably sped up things. Of course, such a  
debate is possible provided I can get the funding to go there, and I  
realize that you and I, just like many other contributors, are facing  
this problem.





However, I realise that other people are not; in particular
our friends among the Sun hackers. Indeed, at the last two ESC
meetings, it has been similarly forbidden to discuss so called
'politics', instead focusing on technical issues.






which in essence means, that discussions will be managed


Sure, self regulated - I agree it sucks at some level, but
don't believe for a moment it's for my benefit.



I don't. I'm just afraid of ads replacing discussions, that's all.





- you seem to be ignoring the existence of "RegiCons", or regional
conferences that work very well.


Yep, was unaware of them; on the other hand I want to meet,
talk to and drink beer with hackers from all over the place: is that
what a RegiCon is ? if so, lets call it a RegiCon.



See my first comment: provided that the community as a whole is  
invited, it is a Regicon, yes.







In short, you advertise for a Novell event. Notice that I think a
Novell event could be an interesting idea, but, as I wrote above,
the way it is being pictured looks problematic to me.


Problematic because it tramples on some existing RegiCon ? or
that it is primarily focused at developers[2] ? or because it's (as I
said) tacked onto the end of an existing Novell event, or becuase it's
organised by Novell ? or ... ?



It is problematic because of how it is advertised and because of how  
it seemed to divide potential attendees.
Besides, the scheduling -roughly at the same time than the OOoCON if I  
understood things well- is also counterproductive.


Best,
Charles.


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Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Marcus,

thank you for your last message. I hope you can contribute to  
OpenOffice.org through broffice.org ; if you need more information,  
just let me know.


Best,
Charles.

Le 7 mars 08 à 15:04, Marcus Silva a écrit :


Sorry Robert and every one.
I will not comment about GoOOoCon or any other action related to that.
No flameswar.
Marcus

Robert Vojta escreveu:
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Marcus Silva  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




What do I think???
Novell is tring to break OOo apart. It was predictable.
-1 to Novell



This is what? Do you want to start some flamewar again? Or what? Just
to refresh your memory, dev@openoffice.org mailing list description:

This list provides a general entry point for developers; it is also
strongly urged that all developers subscribe to this list for
announcements, etc. If you are unsure which project fits your needs
best, ask for redirection here. But do not expect user discussions or
support. Rather, discussions are focused on the development of the
technology.

Do you like this event? Come, meet people and be happy. Don't you?  
Stay at home.


I don't like these stupid emails about nothing. Do you want to say
something like this to Michael / Novell? Say it, but off-list,
directly to Michael, Novell, in your blog, ...

Anyone else wants to start virtual fight against Sun, Novell, SCA,
JCA, LGPL, GPL, ... for whatever reason here? Me not, so, please, try
to resolve these things off-list. Thanks!





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Re: [dev] Thank you for voting Beijing

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Peter, John,

do you happen to know if a specific mailing list for the conference  
(something like [EMAIL PROTECTED]) has opened or will be opened?


Thanks,
Charles.

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Re: [dev] GoOOoCon2008 / Prague ...

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Michael,

I am sorry but given the way you describe this event, it seems that:

- it will be 'hackers' only
- nobody will be able to speak politics (ah, those darned politics and  
politicians, always pointing out awkward things about your employer!  
Why do they even exist?) which in essence means, that discussions will  
be managed
- you seem to be ignoring the existence of "RegiCons", or regional  
conferences that work very well.


In short, you advertise for a Novell event.
Notice that I think a Novell event could be an interesting idea, but,  
as I wrote above, the way it is being pictured looks problematic to me.


Best,
Charles.

Le 6 mars 08 à 19:24, Michael Meeks a écrit :


Hi guys,

The Novell team thought that, what with the next OOoCon being in
Beijing and the cost of travel there (etc.) and of course the broad
focus of that conference; that it would be good to have a very
hacker-focused event in Europe. So, we're inviting all hyper-technical
people (with or without long hair) to join the Novell go-oo team for
part of their annual team face-to-face in Prague.

	To re-iterate, this is not an attempt to undermine OOoCon - if you  
can

only afford to go to one conference (money, time, spousal -patience /
whatever); go to OOoCon.

Having said that, it should be a fun time to sit and chew over the
latest developments, problems, and opportunities - while getting to  
know

other people.

   Conference site:
   + http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/GoOOCon_2008
   The place:
   + Prague, beautiful city, home to SUSE labs, an
 inexpensive place to stay & eat
   The time:
   + April 11th / 12th
   The (preliminary) plan:
   + April 11th, ad-hoc presentations, hacking, evening
 drinks / meal.
   + April 12th, am: more of the same
 pm: fun ropes course / team building
+ check the wiki as time passes for more details.
   Getting there:
   + unfortunately, we can't pay expenses, which is sad.
   + on the other hand, cheap flights & cheap hotels
 shouldn't bust the bank.

   We're trying to keep the event small & friendly, focusing on
hard-core coding, and vcl/source/inc/hardcore.hxx type topics. There
is no need to speak, but if you have something you want to talk about,
please do show up with some slides, and drop Kendy a line with some  
idea

of what you'd like to say.

* There will also be a moratorium on overt politics *

   Inevitably, this being the .cz republic, unless you are
careful, there will be a certain amount of walking through forests,
and with the ropes course it's worth bringing some good footwear.

   Please poke Kendy [ NB. not the mailing list ;-> ] if you can
come.

   Thanks for reading,

  Michael, JP & team.

--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot




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Re: [dev] RFC: java 1.5

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,
Le 6 mars 08 à 18:09, Malte Timmermann a écrit :


My point of view:

Most people agree that OOo mustn't loose (meta) data when Java is not
available, but plug ins for working with meta data can rely on Java.

Changing OOo's Java base line from 1.4 to 1.5 is fine for most  
people then.


+1

Charles.



Malte.

Charles-H. Schulz wrote, On 03/06/08 18:02:

Hi,

well, I was wondering where we were standing on this issue..

Best,
Charles.

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Re: [dev] RFC: java 1.5

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,

well, I was wondering where we were standing on this issue..

Best,
Charles.

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Re: [dev] RFC: java 1.5

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,
Le 4 mars 08 à 15:23, Frank Schönheit - Sun Microsystems Germany a  
écrit :



Hi Hubert,

I don't know if you have noticed, but they are been several request  
from
people to have OOo ported to embedded devices like Maemo and  
iPhone, for

which Java is likely to be an even bigger problem.


Come on. When we ever port OOo to one of those platforms, Java is  
one of

our smallest problem. For the concrete case, this means that any other
third-party library we could use will most probably also not run on
those platforms. So effectively, you say "don't use third-party  
libraries".


So without judging the concrete case, the argueing with possible  
future

ports to platforms without Java is simply not a valid point, IMO.




I am personnaly more interested by the aspect related to freedom (as  
in speech) on this question. Many of them have been sorted, but  
freedom is also "freedom to leave" and freedom not to rely on one  
specific platform, although java can of course be a compelling choice.  
So the question I have now can be summarized in one word:  
'adherence' . Adherence to Java, maintenance, adherence to a VM,  
breadth of alternatives (not just for java), etc. I am putting myself  
in perspective of the ToolKit as well.

Any thoughts?

best,
Charles.


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Re: [dev] RFC: java 1.5

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,
Le 3 mars 08 à 17:57, Malte Timmermann a écrit :


Seems we have to distinguish here a little bit:

It is NOT acceptable for me if I (silently) loose the meta data when  
not

having Java. Data must be kept when loading/manipulating/storing the
doc, and the user should be able to see that/where extra data is.

It IS acceptable for me if Java is required for writing Plugins to
manipulate meta data or advanced features. Then I also have no  
objection

to raise the requirement from Java 1.4 to 1.5.

Probably it needs some more discussion to define the requirements what
exactly must be possible w/o having Java, and how the user can see
existing meta data in some way then.



I think you have presented the question in a clear way. I don't think  
Java should be *required* to write plugins though, but that's just my  
opinion.


Best,
Charles.




Malte.




Malte Timmermann wrote, On 03/03/08 17:36:


Thorsten Behrens wrote, On 03/03/08 17:21:

On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 04:08:16PM +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

On Mon, 2008-03-03 at 15:37 +0100, Michael Stahl wrote:
what are your opinions on making java 1.5 a requirement for OOo  
3.0?

Unfavorable.
(this is a personal opinion)

If -and only if- this question is framed in that way, I am also
unfavorable. AFAICT java is not required for OOo to run.


Yep. The party line up to now was to have Java used for
non-essential, non-core features.


Yes. That's the way it works nowadays, and we shouldn't change that.

Requiring Java for an OOo core feature like ODF 1.2 Meta Data  
support is

a no-no, IMHO.

Malte.

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Re: [dev] RFC: java 1.5

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,
Le 3 mars 08 à 15:59, Hubert Figuiere a écrit :



On Mon, 2008-03-03 at 15:37 +0100, Michael Stahl wrote:

what are your opinions on making java 1.5 a requirement for OOo 3.0?


Unfavorable.
(this is a personal opinion)


If -and only if- this question is framed in that way, I am also  
unfavorable. AFAICT java is not required for OOo to run.
If by making java a requirement you mean updating the requirement for  
the jvm to be used by OOo to java 1.5, then it its acceptable.





OOo is often strongly criticized by its weight (bloat) and slowliness
(bloat). This would just add to it. I always considered that to be a  
bad

idea to introduce it in the first time.



Indeed. And while we're there, perhaps there are other tools than  
Sesame? Extended metadata support is perennial for ODF 1.2 but I hope  
we can achieve this even without Sesame...


Best,
Charles. 
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Re: [dev] Extending the new StartCenter

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Ahah! That was absolutely not obvious on the GULLFOSS blog entry  
though (you had only pointed out to the specific Aquavcl05).

Great news then!

thanks,

Charles.
Le 3 mars 08 à 15:26, Philipp Lohmann a écrit :

The StartCenter is already cross platform (not Mac only), so I gues  
we can consider that point checked :-)


Kind regards, pl

Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

Philipp, Frank, Stella,
As a Mac user I tested the OOo300 build with the new StartCenter  
and I must say I'm very impressed. This has created a Wow effect to  
everyone I showed it. I am actually so impressed that I would like  
to see this start center replacing the standard StartModule on  
every platform.

So I'd like to know if:
- something would oppose this
- if not, is there already an issue/RFE related to it or shall I  
create one?

thanks,
Charles.
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--
If you give someone a program, you will frustrate them for a day;
if you teach them how to program, you will frustrate them for a  
lifetime.

-- Author unknown

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[dev] Extending the new StartCenter

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Philipp, Frank, Stella,

As a Mac user I tested the OOo300 build with the new StartCenter and I  
must say I'm very impressed. This has created a Wow effect to everyone  
I showed it. I am actually so impressed that I would like to see this  
start center replacing the standard StartModule on every platform.

So I'd like to know if:
- something would oppose this
- if not, is there already an issue/RFE related to it or shall I  
create one?



thanks,

Charles.

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Re: [dev] Butler Office Pro - really a violation ?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hey Hubert,
Le 6 févr. 08 à 15:30, Hubert Figuiere a écrit :



On Tue, 2008-02-05 at 18:51 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

A quite practical situation, even if the terms of the JCA themselves
could certainly be improved. But after all you know the benefits of
such copyright covenants, as Gnome and Evolution provide their
developers with similar terms.



Maybe you should get you facts straight up. Gnome does not require any
copyright assignment to be able to contribute. And for Evolution it is
apparently no longer required, as http://live.gnome.org/Evolution does
not mention anything for whoever is interested in contributing.



Well, I think links were posted earlier. Perhaps you're right on  
Evolution, but when it comes to Gnome it would be quite surprizing to  
have no copyright assignment.
Anyway, it does not change the rest of what we discussed (Mono, other  
Novell software, FSF, Mozilla, etc.)


Cheers,

Charles.
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Re: [dev] Butler Office Pro - really a violation ?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Michael,

I'm truly sorry you take things in that way. It's not my intent to  
criticize you personally, I would never dare to do such a thing.
Just realize that you cannot come out in public by suspecting Sun -or  
anybody else- to have ulterior motives without sound arguments, and it  
appears you don't have any, for the moment.


The problem is, you work for a corporation that is going quite against  
anything we're fighting for, and goes certainly in a sense that is  
contrary to what we're building. I'm becoming tired of stumbling upon  
legal agreements between MS, Novell and customers that validate every  
piece of FUD some have ever spoken about FOSS and Open Standards. I'm  
getting tired of reading in French newspapers that "thanks to Novell,  
OpenOffice.org is now a viable alternative to MS Office 97 (PC Expert  
a few months ago, interview of a Novell sales rep or manager)"  
"Questions about formats?OOXML just works with OpenOffice Novell  
Edition"  "Novell is the second largest contributor to OpenOffice.org"  
Thank you, with this kind of contributor we don't need any competitor!


You will notice we don't really hear the same thing from Sun or  
anybody else. Heck, even IBM didn't do such a wrong to us in all the  
years they were refusing to contribute to OOo.


I understand you are not in charge of your employer's corporate  
strategy, that's quite natural. But please, have the decency to look  
at your shoes before posting such accusations; yours are dirtier than  
the ones of many others here.


Best,

Charles. 


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Re: [dev] Butler Office Pro - really a violation ?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Allen,
Le 5 févr. 08 à 21:00, Allen Pulsifer a écrit :


Heck, even the FSF does that...


You're telling me that the FSF will not accept contributions to an  
open
source project unless it is given an assignment of copyright that  
allows it
to license the contribution under any terms it wants, including a  
commercial

license?  Please direct me to the web page at fsf.org that says this.



You're mixing two things here: license and copyright. The very fact of  
owning the copyright automatically gives you the right to relicense  
the software covered by your copyright under any terms you wish, and  
this applies to the FSF just like anybody. What the FSF does not do,  
of course is to develop its software under a dual license of course.  
What I'm saying about the FSF applies to every software that is called  
GNU, or more exactly the software projects that have given their  
copyright to the FSF (i.e, the GNU project): https:// 
savannah.gnu.org/  (check the copyright notices of the software)


I'm surprized that you didn't know this, Allen. By the way, what I'm  
describing (copyright) is exactly what allows a company like MySQL to  
have a dual license strategy (GPL + commercial license)


Best,
Charles.




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Re: [dev] Butler Office Pro - really a violation ?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le 5 févr. 08 à 20:37, Allen Pulsifer a écrit :


I am quite
"amused" -to put things very mildly - to see somebody from
Novell make
this kind of arguments. Novell does the same thing, and even worse:


I'm sorry, are you saying the Novell has an open source project for  
which it
does not accept open source contributions under the same license as  
the

project, but instead asks all contributors to make an unrestricted
assignment of their copyrights to Novell?  If so, please tell me which
project that would be.


OpenSuse is directly copyrighted to Novell. Other open source projects  
such as iFolder, AppArmor would fall in that category although I'm not  
sure about them (although I don't see them being "given" to an  
external entity) Evolution, just like many Gnome projects and the  
Gnome desktop as a whole also has an copyright umbrella (under the  
Gnome Foundation). Once again, I don't complain about that, I believe  
it's just normal practice for the majority of FOSS projects. Heck,  
even the FSF does that...


Best,
Charles.
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Re: [dev] Butler Office Pro - really a violation ?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Allen,
Le 5 févr. 08 à 19:36, Allen Pulsifer a écrit :


Sure - so (it seems to me) rather hard for anyone except Sun to
prosecute an LGPL violation here -


Indeed, they're the copyright holder of the entirety of the code.



Redmond. In short, criticzing the JCA may be valid, but it's
particularly unappropriate - or perhaps just pathetic- coming
from you.


Charles,

That comment is way out of bounds.  It is very appropriate for  
Michael to

comment on this.

Michael's point is this: under the JCA, Novell is the JOINT holder of
copyright in all of their contributions to OpenOffice.org.  Novell  
could
INDEPENDENTLY assert a copyright violation claim against Butler  
Office Pro

for violating Novell's copyright to Novell's contributions.

The problem that Michael is pointing out is that under the JCA, Sun  
has the
right to license Novell's contributions to anyone they want under  
any terms

they want.  This means that Sun could simply settle Novell's copyright
violation claims against Butler Office behind Novell's back, without
Novell's permission, by offering Butler Office a license to Novell's
contributions.

I think that is the point of Michael's post,


So do I.


and it is a very valid point.
Even though Novell holds joint copyright to their contributions  
under the
JCA, they have essentially surrendering their right to assert  
copyright

violations.



And so did we all. I have two comments about this though: the practice  
of copyright umbrella (call it JCA or SCA or anything else) is  
widespread in FOSS project. OpenOffice.org is by no way an exception  
Sun does it, Mozilla does it, Gnome does it, Novell does it, IBM does  
it I think. This approach has benefits and drawbacks (mainly the ones  
Michael and you summarized). But what matters at least as much in a  
conversation is who speaks, and who speaks what words. I am quite  
"amused" -to put things very mildly - to see somebody from Novell make  
this kind of arguments. Novell does the same thing, and even worse:  
Notoriously, disrupting OpenOffice.org's image to the benefit of its  
own version in the press and to customers and prospects (which is not  
very constructive) and creating interesting legal situations both of  
the whole GNU/Linux stack and OpenOffice.org. I'm talking specific  
legal agreements on "IP protection" from Microsoft made to specific  
corporate customers. That they do. So I find it quite wild to have  
somebody from Novell lecturing us about JCA. It might be wiser to look  
back at one's own business.


Cheers,

Charles.
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Re: [dev] Butler Office Pro - really a violation ?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Le 5 févr. 08 à 17:30, Michael Meeks a écrit :



On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 00:05 +0900, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote:

But now that I think about it, since SUN holds the copyright to the
code it would be actually possible for SUN to make modifications to
the code without releasing it and that may well happen in StarOffice.


Sure - so (it seems to me) rather hard for anyone except Sun to
prosecute an LGPL violation here -


Indeed, they're the copyright holder of the entirety of the code.



since it's quite possible that these
guys have a confidential agreement with Sun that makes it perfectly
legal for them to rip off people's code, and their customers, and get
away with it. How can we know that is not the case ? How can anyone be
sure if litigation was commenced, Sun wouldn't just settle for cash.

One of the deep joys of the JCA with it's single steward.



A quite practical situation, even if the terms of the JCA themselves  
could certainly be improved. But after all you know the benefits of  
such copyright covenants, as Gnome and Evolution provide their  
developers with similar terms.
Of course, the main difference here is that it's up to Sun, not to  
Novell to call the shots. And despite the existence of legal  
agreements between Sun and MS, at least we're not being infected as a  
result of the active and lavish collaboration  of your company with  
Redmond. In short, criticzing the JCA may be valid, but it's  
particularly unappropriate - or perhaps just pathetic- coming from you.





Is there an update on Butler Office ? they clearly have a nerve using
Microsoft's Office logo & claiming 100% compatibility too ;-)



And in that regard, they're not that different from Novell. But don't  
you think Sun developers on this list would know if their company was  
in business with Butler?


Best,

Charles. 
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Re: [dev] Pertenecer a OpenOffice

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hola Omar,

please go to http://es.openoffice.org

Saludos,

Charles.

Le 23 janv. 08 à 15:28, Omar Londoño a écrit :


Saludos,



Mi nombre es Omar Londoño, y soy programador de una Universidad de  
Colombia,

me interesa formar parte de la familia de OpenOffice.org ya que puedo
aportar mucho para la construcción de nuevas versiones de OpenOffice  
tanto

para Windows como para Linux.



Muchas Gracias





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Re: [dev] Probable GPL violations - Butler Office Pro

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Martin

my fault, I hadn't found the screenshots...

Best,
Charles.


Martin Hollmichel a écrit :

Hi Charles,

* you see this in the screenshots on their website

* you can download a trial version
** this trial version claims that on my box that a newer version of 
butler office is installed :-)
** The Windows version identifies itself in the about box as a build 
9095 (OOE680m6). The Mac version as build 9161 (OOF680m18).


I assume that also people who paid for the office also get no access 
to the source code.

The included license looks weired, I will have a deeper look into it.

Martin

Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

Hello Kevin,

ButlerPro is not one of our contributors. However, I'd be curious to 
know how you can see that they're using the OpenOffice.org codebase.


Best Regards,

Charles-H. Schulz.


Kevin Ogden a écrit :

http://www.butlerofficepro.com/

http://www.butlerofficepro.com/ebay

It's certainly a modified version of OpenOffice.  They don't mention 
OpenOffice nor do they provide source.  Right down to the 
soffice.bin executable in the OS X package.


Also check out

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-2008-Office-Pro-for-Mac-Microsoft-Vista-XP_W0QQitemZ190187536162QQihZ009QQcategoryZ80241QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem 



They openly bash open source software on this page yet their product 
is based on it.


I've had an unsuccessful discussion with them on this if you all 
would like me to forward it to the list.  The only contact info on 
the page was the customer service e-mail address 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.  I have a feeling it's just a 
guy or 3 in a basement because the reply was instantaneous and 
whoever it was didn't seem like a typical customer service rep.  He 
was a bit more knowledgeable than a typical customer service rep.


If I'm wrong and they do contribute code back, my apologies.  I 
certainly haven't seen anything however.  I just felt the need to 
point this out.


--Kevin



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Re: [dev] Probable GPL violations - Butler Office Pro

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Kevin,

ButlerPro is not one of our contributors. However, I'd be curious to 
know how you can see that they're using the OpenOffice.org codebase.


Best Regards,

Charles-H. Schulz.


Kevin Ogden a écrit :

http://www.butlerofficepro.com/

http://www.butlerofficepro.com/ebay

It's certainly a modified version of OpenOffice.  They don't mention 
OpenOffice nor do they provide source.  Right down to the soffice.bin 
executable in the OS X package.


Also check out

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-2008-Office-Pro-for-Mac-Microsoft-Vista-XP_W0QQitemZ190187536162QQihZ009QQcategoryZ80241QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem 



They openly bash open source software on this page yet their product 
is based on it.


I've had an unsuccessful discussion with them on this if you all would 
like me to forward it to the list.  The only contact info on the page 
was the customer service e-mail address 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.  I have a feeling it's just a 
guy or 3 in a basement because the reply was instantaneous and whoever 
it was didn't seem like a typical customer service rep.  He was a bit 
more knowledgeable than a typical customer service rep.


If I'm wrong and they do contribute code back, my apologies.  I 
certainly haven't seen anything however.  I just felt the need to 
point this out.


--Kevin

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Re: [dev] Meet me: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Shalom Zvi,

welcome to the project!
I do not know exactly how you can help to improve the issue you pointed
out, but perhaps you might be interested in helping out with the Hebrew
localization?
Check this out: http://he.openoffice.org

Hope this helps,

Charles.


Zvi Har'El a écrit :
> Hi,
>
>
> I am new to this list.  As you see from my signature, I am a
> mathematician by education, but also a computer hacker with 25 years
> experience. As an advocate of open source software, I have been using
> OOo from day one, and have a lot of experience with it. Now that I have
> started to be involved in open access journal publishing,  I  am using
> OOo as the main publishing tool. I have met several problems in the OOo
> Writer export filters, and entered a bug report in the the issue data
> base, at . I have
> proceeded in pursuing this issue, and got the feeling I am talking to
> myself! I also made a suggestion how to fix the defect, but the issue is
> still in the unconfirmed status. My experience with other open source
> development communities, like Mozilla (Firefox, Thunderbird, Calendar
> project), was quite different. Is there anything I can do to improve the
> situation? Perhaps discussing the issues in this forum may help? I tried
> to subscribe to the users mailing list but noticed it is certainly wrong
> for discussing defects.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Zvi.
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>   

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[dev] question on custom XML schemas

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,

this may not be the best list for this. Anyway, it was first asked in an
ODF forum, but turned out to me (imho) a purely OOo-related question.
See here: http://opendocument.xml.org/node/838#comment-74

An answer would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Charles.

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Re: [dev] Some thoughts about our community

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Allen,

please calm down. It is useless to end up conversations in that way.
Can you please let us know what you feel the problem is?

And sorry, but as a long time independent contributor of OOo, please be
aware that not all of us here share your opinion on Sun, the JCA, etc.

best,
Charles.


Allen Pulsifer a écrit :
> Hello Juergen,
>
> I deleted your message without reading it because I'm not willing to look at
> anything that starts with that tone.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Allen
>
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>
>
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Re: [dev] Some thoughts about our community

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Juergen, Davide, Allen, all,


Juergen Schmidt a écrit :
> Hi Davide,
>
> Davide Dozza wrote:
>> Hi Juergen,
>>
>> I wouldn't discuss about [2] and [3]. They are just examples and they
>> have been discussing on other places.
>>
>> I would like to discuss about [1] and why we are almost the same people
>> any year, why the number of participants doesn't grow and why large
>> proportion of people comes from few companies.
> i think that is obvious because these companies invest a lot of money
> in the project in form of developer resources. The work has to be done
> and it is good that some companies pay full time developers for their
> work. Otherwise we wouldn't be there where we are today. Each
> individual contributor can help a little bit and that is fantastic.
> Every little contribution is important. See for example localization,
> it is an area where our community works great because it is much
> easier to extract this piece of work from the normal development process.
> It is more difficult in other areas but it is not impossible and of
> course i claim that things become better and better. And we do of
> course can do a lot of more things to improve and simplify it.
>
> And of course i would say it is the same as for other open source
> projects as well, isn't it. I think Linux is driven in the same way.
> Huge amount of work is done by full time developers of companies and
> additionally to that tons of smaller contributions from individuals.


I think this analysis goes without speaking here Jürgen. And that should
never be seen as an issue.
>
> i think not, what would it really change? Ask yourself if you would
> change anything for your own work on the project. And if yes what does
> you really prevent form doing it today?
Nothing prevents Davide from contributing if you see this issue just in
terms of processes. But what could repel Davide and others is the
feeling (and perhaps a justified feeling) that individuals are nothing
but large companies everything. You may notice that this is not an issue
confined within OOo :-) ...
More seriously, part of the attraction of FOSS is that there is a degree
of appropriation of the software/project in the psyche of any
contributor. If governance shows the exact evidence of the contrary, you
have unhappy contributors, and one day, you'll end up having no more
individual contributors.

The demand here is thus to strike a (much difficult to evaluate) balance
between major corps and individual/small org contributors. Why? To
please Davide or myself? No. Because you know Jürgen, just like many
others than this part of the community (the "independent" contributors
matters a lot, both in terms of code contribution than in terms of usage
expansion, QA, etc.).

So that's the crux of the issue according to me. How do we address this
feeling? How do we strike a balance between the different stakeholders?
These are the questions we must answer.

best,
Charles.

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Re: [dev] Some thoughts about our community

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Davide,

might be worth to listen about that (at least at the beginning):
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/04/open_season_four_shuttleworth/

Best,
Charles.



Davide Dozza a écrit :
> Hi all,
>
> some days ago I launched a stone into the water. I posted some
> consideration [1] about the OOoCon and more in general about our community.
>
> It seems that things don't happen alone. After the Michael Meeks
> announce [2] following the Kohei [3] post I think there is something to
> discuss about our "community" and how they should evolve. In fact it
> seems clear to me that the actual community rules, and more in general
> about how the project is managed, are not anymore suitable to manage
> what the Community asks.
>
> I'm deliberating using two terms, "community" and Community, because I
> think there is a common misinterpretation about what a community is.
>
> Hoping this start a constructive discussion,
>
> Ciao
>
> Davide
>
>
>
> [1]
> http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/10/02/openofficeorg-conference-2007-some-thoughts/
>
> [2] http://www.gnome.org/~michael/activity.html#2007-10-02
>
> [3] http://kohei.us/2007/10/02/history-of-calc-solver/
>
>   

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[dev] Some pictures from the conference

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,

here are some (more) pictures from the conference that are not on Flickr...

http://arsaperta.org/ooocon2007/

Enjoy,
Charles.

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[dev] NLC Party in Barcelona

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hear, Hear!

The Native-Language Confederation Party shall take place in Barcelona on
Tuesday the 18th of September, at 7 pm local time (19:00). Food and
Drinks shall be provided.
The event will occur in the gardens of the University, which is also the
place of the conference.

Everybody is invited, member of OOo, of the NLC or otherwise!

Looking forward to meet you all there,

Charles-H. Schulz.

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Re: Fwd: [dev] Re: Thunderbird - Integration

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Michael, Thunderbird list,

please disregard Michael's last message who seems he has misunderstood
my comments.
groupware.openoffice.org IS NOT THE NEW HOME FOR THUNDERBIRD.

I, nor anyone else DID NOT GRANT CVS ACCESS TO THE THUDERBIRD TEAM ON
OPENOFFICE.ORG.

If the Thunderbird team wishes to be part of OpenOffice.org, they're
welcome to do so, this is Free Software.

Until then, I'd like us to close the discussion on this topic, at least
on dev@openoffice.org . No new mailing list will be created.

Thank you,
Charles-H. Schulz.



Michael Schmidt a écrit :
> Hi Charles,
>
> thanks for the CVS of Thunderbird at OOo: http://groupware.openoffice.org/
> We need a mailinglist for "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> Can you create that? So that developers and interested people can join
> and that CVS access is discussed and given there?
>
> One Task is left: if officially someone from OOo or Sun or Community
> or whatever can ask Scott and David if there is interest to join. As
> you communicate the most on this atm, maybe you?
>
> Thanks Michael.
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Michael Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Jul 30, 2007 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [dev] Re: Thunderbird - Discussion about Sun vs. Mozilla
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Hi
>
> I forward you the new adress of Thunderbird with Lightning Sunbird Calendar
> for the OpenOffice suite:  http://groupware.openoffice.org/
> Please join the OOo-dev mailinglist, until there is an mailinglist
> announced, which is for that development.
>
> Tasks:
> - check in the actualized code of TB into groupware
> - get a team, to get CVS access (who is interested, should announce)
>
> Thanks Michael.
>
> On 7/30/07, Charles-H. Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Hello Jonathon,
>>
>>
>> jonathon a écrit :
>> 
>>> Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>> If Scott and David wish to join the OpenOffice.org project, they simply
>>>> can request it and the developers and community, wether through the
>>>> decision of our community council or mere consensus will approve or deny
>>>> the integration inside the project.
>>>>
>>>> 
>>> I know that the email component of OOo has been killed, and
>>> the sub-project relating to email is as good as dead.
>>>
>>>   
>> that was a long time ago. The works were nowerdays hosted there:
>> http://groupware.openoffice.org/
>>
>> 
>>> Thunderbird and OOo, so that the two are as tightly
>>> integrated as Outlook and Microsoft Office are.
>>>
>>>   
>> Now there is a two-men effort to integrate Thunderbird and Lightning
>> inside OOo as additional packages.
>>
>> And besides, Thunderbird can join the project without the need of a
>> corporate agreement of Sun.
>>
>> Best,
>> Charles.
>> -
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>> 
>
>   

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Re: [dev] Re: Thunderbird - Discussion about Sun vs. Mozilla

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,


Michael Schmidt a écrit :
> On 7/30/07, jonathon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> integrated as Outlook and Microsoft Office are.
>>
>> 
>
> outlook *is* a component of office.
>
> Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
>   
>> Hope it helps,
>> 
>
> ok. but let me ask: helps whom? helps what? for which goal?
>
> - helping OOo to get the missing emailclient?
>   
presumably yes.

> - helping persons, by saing not: good cow coder, bad cow managerial?
>   

???
> - helping TB to stay within Mozilla?
> - helping OOo not need to give the handshake, by waiting the TB Coders do it?
>   

Sorry I am afraid I don't understand what you're saying here.

>   
>> wish TB to join the OpenOffice.org project, they simply
>> can request it.
>> 
>
> It has been requested on the mailinglist: OOo needs an Email Client
> and Instant Messenger. Ideally both under one hood/gui
>   
> so please decide, and if the core developers are not joining, then it
> is a fork-partnership.
>   


a fork by whom?

> What is the difference, by Scott requesting a Mailclient in OOo or
> anyone else in OOo?
> OOo Dev should know the history of the lack of an Emailclient, so I
> wounder why there is no initiative now.
>   


Okay. Perhaps you misread my former statements: There is right now, a
project aiming at the integration of Thunderbird and Lightning inside
OOo. It started without Thunderbird being spun off from Mozilla.

> ;-)
>
> This is, why I wrote yesterday to the HR department of SUN, to start
> an initiative to employ them.
>   

Sorry. I am not a Sun employee and besides, who are you write to Sun HR?
Do you work with Scott? Did he tell you to do it?


> And I ask the OOo managerials to send feedback on that here on the
> list, or to decide, if in this critical situation of the death of the
> bird a fork-partnership is planned and implemented for OOo.
>   

I suggest you wait until the answer of the "OOo Managerials" then. :-)

> We should set with the community a timeline, in which the managerials
> of OOo declare, if or what they have done to find a solution, and with
> which result.
>
> Things look not brighter, the more nights you sleep.
> So I hope, the decision is soon done (and not "far-fetched") and told
> to the community:
> If or if not OOo get´s an open source Email-Cient (which could be
> based on TB code or on core-dev-ls knowledge).
>
> Don´t get me wrong, OOo can decide it anytime to add email or
> serverless IM functionalities to OpenOffice, but for the case of
> Thunderbird, the time is nowerdays.
>
> Kind regards Michael.
>
> PS: Sun uses a lot of money to be neck to neck with Microsoft. Use
> this money for TB.
> It is really not a question to make a fork or a friendly-overtake of
> TB. It fits the strategy. Outlook is Office ! so don´t get in identity
> turbulence with the birds flying around your head, sun! So let´s wait
> for the feedback of the headquarter.
>   

You seem to imply that Sun decides everything in OOo, or that OOo is
only made of Sun. That's quite a wrong assumption. Sun is certainly a
very important member of our community, but it's far to be the only one.
And besides, Thunderbird can join the project without the need of a
corporate agreement of Sun.

Best,
Charles.

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Re: [dev] Re: Thunderbird - Discussion about Sun vs. Mozilla

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Jonathon,


jonathon a écrit :
> Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
>
>   
>> If Scott and David wish to join the OpenOffice.org project, they simply
>> can request it and the developers and community, wether through the
>> decision of our community council or mere consensus will approve or deny
>> the integration of Thunderbird inside the project.
>> 
>
> I know that the email component of OOo has been killed, and
> the sub-project relating to email is as good as dead.
>   

that was a long time ago indeed. The works were hosted there:
http://groupware.openoffice.org/
> However, that does not preclude them from rewriting
> Thunderbird, (and maybe OOo) so that the two are as tightly
> integrated as Outlook and Microsoft Office are.
>   

Now there is a two-men effort to integrate Thunderbird and Lightning
inside OOo as additional packages.

Best,
Charles.



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Re: [dev] Re: Thunderbird - Discussion about Sun vs. Mozilla

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Michael,

please keep off your bashing of Mitchell Baker off this list. Reading
Scott's blog I don't clearly see (please point me where exactly) he says
that he'd like to get his project hosted on OpenOffice.org
OpenOffice.org to this day has no calendaring/email application. There
is a project that preexisted to the Mozilla's foundation announcement
though, that aims to integrate Thunderbird and Lightning to OpenOffice.org .

I do not know what prompted the Mozilla Foundation to change the
organizational framework where Thunderbird is being developed and
distributed. Surely there is room for interpretation.

If Scott and David wish to join the OpenOffice.org project, they simply
can request it and the developers and community, wether through the
decision of our community council or mere consensus will approve or deny
the integration of Thunderbird inside the project. Anything beyond that,
like for example the Thunderbird team being hired by Sun, or
collaboration with Retroshare, is at the moment far-fetched.

Hope it helps,

Charles.



Michael Schmidt a écrit :
> Mohamed Samy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]":
>
>   
>> Basically they summarize to specific "big ideas":
>>
>> - Integrating multiple forms of online & offline communication,
>> including IM retroshare and others. Making Thunderbird the interface
>> to disparate services.
>>
>> - Adding more improved addresses and calendering.
>>
>> - Better support for corporate needs to compete with the Outlook
>> +Exchange duo.
>>
>> I think these could be fine starting points for a new plan. And I'd
>> like to add my own suggestion of integrating
>> 
>
> On 7/30/07, Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
> on "[EMAIL PROTECTED]":
>
>   
>> Anybody is free to fork Thunderbird or other Mozilla code. However I'm
>> here as a part of the Mozilla community and I guess that will stay that
>> way ;-)
>> 
>
>
> Hi Mohamed, Eddy and List,
>
> if only 2 developers are working on Thunderbird and the main reason to
> start such a public discussion is just revenue or the retrun on
> invest, then it would much more easier to say to Scott and David: work
> 6 hours per day on Firefox and only 2 hours on Thunderbird. Or: make a
> pause on Thunderbird for one year. It would be so easy to make
> Thunderbird bigger, just by adding the Sunbird Calendar by default and
> adding Thunderbird to the Firefox Installer by default.
> The reasons for organizational change are not the one that
> Thunbderbird is a bad product or missing something (adding Calendar
> and TB to FF-Installer by default is a thing of hours!! and if not
> done to make TB bigger a question of "Miss-Management" Mitchell
> Baker).
> The reasons may lay in another direction
> a) maybe Google wants a filetated/cutted clean core Foundation for G-Browser
> b) maybe the employment of the coders is difficult due to social
> reasons and they want to have them in an own Company.
> c) a financial view to say always: why employing you, though
> thunderbird has no sponsors. Either you regard a Foundation
> responsible for the whole, or you are an oeconomist.
> That this oeconomic view of an open source project, which grow up in a
> philosophic orientated community now gets a lot of bashing in the
> comments.. leads to the question, if Mozilla is still the open source
> organization many contributors are working for. Accepting many hours
> of work from freelancers making Firefox big at it is -- with the
> consequence google is raping it - and then on the other hand saying
> that the income of two salaried has no return on the invest and that
> they should be outsourced from the mother... mitchel, you have no
> heart! I do not like doctors, which focus only on the stomac and not
> on the whole person, situation and history of the ill person. So my
> question is, if Mozilla is only defining Thunderbird as ill, with any
> development discussion and any meeting Mitchell with the TB Developers
> had.
> But Thunderbird is not ill. It just needs a release with Sunbird
> Calendar and some Bundling with FF. So this leads to Mitchells wrong
> view. She is the problem, shortening the income of the TB developers
> with any view and sentence and/or throwing the bird into environment
> circumstances, in which synergy-effects are excluded.
> So to ask direct: Do you await MORE development, if TB is on one of
> these Options (e.g. like in an own company with direct return on
> invest)? No...  it is like cutting the water for a tree. I think this
> decision is very wrong.
>
> The other option to make a subproject somewhere in Mozilla is not
> really a question to discuss in such a wide public range, as this
> could be done as said (less hours, making a pause, just changing the
> path from Mozialla/TB to Mozilla/projects/TB ???).
>
> So why this discussion? there is a wider history and wider meaning
> behind it, we all do not  know and the developers of TB cannot say
> anything about it. They comment it,

Re: [dev] Thunderbird will be outsourced: OOo is maybe a new home...

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Michael,

Michael Schmidt a écrit :
> On 7/29/07, Caio Tiago Oliveira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
 Also, the two developers should still receiving from Mozilla to work for 
 TB.
 
>>> Think they are located in San Jose, which is not far away from the San
>>> Diego Technology Center of Sun, just make them an offer, they
>>> cannot deny.
>>>   
>> I said that with the intention to say that they shouldn't migrate the
>> sourcecode from repository and to emphasize they are not going away,
>> completely, from Mozilla.
>> 
>
> right, but the lead TB developer spoke himself in the blog of sf.net,
> so the SVN would be there. Why then not at OOo?.
> Thunderbird: San Jose -> SUN San Diego
> Retroshare-IM: Cambridge, UK -> SUN Chamberley, UK
> For David, second TB developer, I dunno, he should say something in
> this discussion. They are all three excellent coders, Sun should
> employ in any project and half the day they get retroshare serverless
> IM and Thunderbrid  with ligthning together. The coder for lightning
> may bring himself in the discussion, but I think the calendar is ready
> already: http://sourceforge.net/projects/portablesbird/
>   


I think we're sliding a little bit off topic here  :-) . First, I don't
think Sun is going hire them. Then, the Sun OpenOffice.org team is based
in Hamburg, Germany. Third, it's OpenOffice.org and not Openoffice.
Fourth, the link to the portable calendar does not seem to me to be an
official Mozilla project. Fifth, OOo primarily uses CVS although SVN
access is possible.

Best,
Charles.


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Re: [dev] Thunderbird will be outsourced: OOo is maybe a new home...

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hi,

I don't know if such a move will happen. I welcome Scott and the
Thunderbird team here but that's just me speaking.
However, I'd guess we could say that it's already happening: after all
OOo has a project of Sunbird/Thunderbird integration inside OOo going on
(and there's a speech about this topic at the OOoCON!)
so maybe it could make sense.

Cheers,

Charles.


Kirill S. Palagin a écrit :
> Hopefully, whatever we will do will not take resources from developing
> our core product which is office productivity suite. 
>
>   
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Michael Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 6:06 PM
>> To: dev@openoffice.org
>> Subject: [dev] Thunderbird will be outsourced: OOo is maybe a 
>> new home...
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Mozilla wants to get rid of Thunderbird.
>> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/archives/2007/07/email
>> _futures.html
>>
>> The lead developer agreed on a new home, which could be 
>> sf.net or openoffice.org http://scott-macgregor.org/blog/
>>
>> Openoffice is a quite good home.
>> There was the request, that OOo needs an Instant Messenger, 
>> there are serverless (retroshare protocol = jabber2) and serverbased
>> (old-jabber) open source IM Protocols and clients-
>>
>> OOo and Retroshare serverless Messenger already contacted for 
>> a project start Workingtitle "RooSIM"):
>> http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1751518&forum
>> _id=618174
>> http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1753227&forum
>> _id=618174
>>
>> In the new setting of a new vision for Thunderbird, one would 
>> be to add Instant Messaging to  Thunderbird Email and have both for
>> OpenOffice:
>> - serverbased and serverless
>> - Mail and Instant Message
>> - Online- and Offlinecommunication.
>>
>> Any Ideas, how to check in the SVN of Thunderbird in a OOo-SVN?
>> How to add retroshare Messenger and Sundbird.sf.net lightning 
>> Calendar project to TB?
>> Please contact from the managerial side of OOo Mozilla and 
>> negotiate about the Thunderbird Name and Trademark. Otherwise 
>> a rebranding is needed.
>> Who would join this project and can implement the retroshare 
>> code into the contact list of Thunderbird? What are the needs 
>> for a roadmap? all Thunderbird users then can send serverless 
>> Instant Messages amoung each other.
>>
>> First of all, a platform (SVN) is needed, where people can 
>> subscribe to.
>> Please post a url with the SVN of TB at OOo.?
>> Feedback is welcome. Michael
>>
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>
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Re: [dev] Contribution

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Ganesh,

thank you for your interest in OpenOffice.org . As a programmer, there
are two main options for you.
-Either join the VBA project (http://vba.openoffice.org and
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/VBA)
- Help with the localization . OpenOffice.org is localized in many Indic
languages (Hindi, Gujarati, Punjabi, Malayalam, and much more). See
here: http://projects.openoffice.org/native-lang.html

Or help by working in two projects... :-)  In any case, don't forget to
register and sign the JCA.

Welcome to OpenOffice.org,

Charles-H. Schulz.



Ganesh Dattatreyan a écrit :
> Dear Friends,
>
> I am Ganesh Dattatreyan Iyer from India. I am using Open-office 2.2.0 and
> have found it as a good replacement for MS-Office. My Details are as
> below:
>
> Work Profile : VB Programmer
> Company : Fast Facts Computer Systems Ltd
> Place I live in : Dombivli ( suburb closer to Mumbai) , India
>
> I also work on GNU Linux at my home and a keen follower of Open Source
> activities. Richard Stallman, Linus Torvalds and many others have
> motivated
> me through their works.
> I would definitely like to contribute to Open Office as a developer or
> as a
> writer. Please guide me accordingly.
>
> Regards,
> Ganesh Dattatreyan Iyer
>

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Re: [dev] Hi, guys! I am from shanghai china. An OOo developer. Want to do some coding things for OOo.

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Dear Paul,

what is the fork of OpenOffice.org you're developing? Is there a page we
can have a look at?
Also, I'd recommend you to have a look at the Chinese OpenOffice.org
community: http://zh.openoffice.org
Hope this helps,

Best,
Charles-H. Schulz.


Martin Hollmichel a écrit :
> Paul,
> paul.yang wrote:
>   
>> Hi, OOo developed team manager:
>>
>>  I am an OOo developer working for one chinese company.
>> We are developing our own chinese version office suite based on OOo.
>> I have been coding on OOo nearly one year! Now, want to do some works for 
>> OOo.
>>
>>   
>> 
> this sound great, welcome to the project,
>   
>> How could I start. Could I get one openoffice mail account like [EMAIL 
>> PROTECTED]
>> (my name is paul.yang).  and then submit some bugs , next fix it!
>>
>>   
>> 
> please use http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/Join to register for an
> account in the project,
>   
>> I am looking forward to receiving your reply, thank you so much! :-)
>>
>> Best regards! 
>>
>>   
>> 
> Martin
>
>
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Re: [dev] May I help?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Dear Benigno, Pierre-André,

Perhaps you might be interested in helping the PLIO, the Italian
Native-Language Community. They need localizers, QA testers... and it is
also a good place to start before contributing to the core of the code.
See here: http://it.openoffice.org

Bienvenutti all'OpenOffice.org Benigno!

Charles-H. Schulz.

PA Galmes a écrit :
> On 5/13/07, Benigno Maeso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> My name is Benigno Maeso and I'm from Madrid (Spain).
>>
>> I'd like to contribute to Open Office.
>>
>> I've some experience programming in C++ and C running on Windows
>> though my
>> knowledge may be a little "rusty". The las job I made was in 1999.
>
>
> In fact, as OOo is a huge project, the first thing you should do is
> choose
> a project (Writer, Calc...) you love and you would like to work on. Then,
> you should contact directly the team leader and say you would like to
> help.
>
> Here is a list of projects that were submitted as Google summer of code
> proposals:
>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2007/proposals
>
> and the ones that were accepted:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2007
>
> I suppose you could grab one of those to start.
> BTW, the other thing you should start with is setting your environment
> and compiling OOo. Check the wiki about that:
>
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/
>
> I hope it will help you start the adventure ;-)
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> -- 
> Pierre-André Galmes
> Free Software consultant
> StarXpert - www.starxpert.fr
> 6, rue
>
> Eugène Varlin - 75010 Paris

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Re: [dev] Trying to play a slideshow on AMD64 fails.

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Travis,

just a qucik question: are you sure that it's a problem related to the
architecture and not to your graphical card?
Is your gaphic card an ATI?

Cheers,

Charles.

Travis Athougies a écrit :
> I would just like to let you guys know that trying to play a slideshow on
> AMD64 freezes up openoffice. It seems that it is trying to wait on a
> mutex
> although I can't tell what piece of code is trying to call that because
> gdb's backtrace shows that the address that called the pthread library is
> 0x00 which is invalid.  If there is anything I can do to fix
> this or if there already is a way to fix this please let me know.
>
> Thanks.
>

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Re: [dev] Spørsmål vedr. Open Office

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Jens,

forwarding your question to the Norwegian OOo project lead. Feel free to
visit http://no.openoffice.org as this is an english mailing list only.

Best,
Charles-H. Schulz.


Jens Hunnestad a écrit :
> Hei!
> Oppdal kommune har i forbindelse med et investeringsprosjekt i grunnskolen i 
> Oppdal, gått over til å bruke OpenOffice. Undertegnede har vært leder for 
> gruppa som har stått for innføringen. Alle bærbare PC'er serves fra en server 
> sentralt i kommunen. Fra denne "rulles" program og oppdatteringer ut.
> Elever og lærer logger seg opp mot server når de starter maskinen. Hver gang 
> de logger seg på, kommer skjermbildet med OpenOffice opp. Registrering av 
> bruker osv. Kan dette utelates eller gjøres slik at en slipper dette hver 
> gang.
> Det neste problemet vi har er å få programmet til å lagre i word-format. 
> Dette på grunn av at mange har word på maskinene heime. Har dere en god 
> løsning for oss her?
>  
> Hilsen
>  
> Jens Kr. Hunnestad
> Leder IKT-gruppa
>   

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Re: [dev] Mirroring OpenOffice.org Premium

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello all,

(cutting the previous thread for the sake of clarity).
I wish to appease this debate but weigh in it as well. While it's true 
that OpenOffice.org "Premium" is a rather unfortunate name in a 
marketing sense (it really sounds like something you actually pay), and 
while I certainly see the advantages of bundling OOo with extra fonts 
and templates, I wonder what you do concerning the promotion of the 
actual OpenOffice.org software in Hungary.


Please take no offense in this. But it's really a question I would like 
to ask. By stressing on the "Premium" rather than on OpenOffice.org 
itself, you may end up harming the actual software's image more than 
anything else. It's of course a discussion you should have inside the 
Hungarian-speaking OOo community. And by the way, how does all this fit 
in the overall community works of the HU community? How do you sort out 
the licensing issues?


I certainly appreciate your dissemination work, but maybe a better 
mutual understanding should be necessary here.


Best Regards,
Charles-H. Schulz,
Lead of the Native-Language Confederation,
OpenOffice.org .

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Re: [dev] MS Project Open Source

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Mr Fraser,

Stuart Fraser a écrit :

I have a product I have been working on called FeatureDrive. It's positioned
as an MS Project competitor. How can I discuss with you the value of added
FeatureDire to OpenOffice?


Well, on a business point of view, the BizDev 
(http://bizdev.openoffice.org) project may be the right place. Please 
subscribe to dev@bizdev.openoffice.org (send an empty email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]). People like me will discuss these 
matters with you there.


Best,
Charles-H. Schulz.

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