Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Andy, I think you're spot on and what you say about moving beyond the page totally resonates with the approach I'm trying to take on social interaction design. There are of course constraints on what can be done within a framed space, but you're right that present and future applications will require thinking "outside the box," so to speak. The interface will in some cases be a window onto a space, that space being a visual space, an information "space" (misnomer I think), may even be video/televisual. In the case of social media, where user interaction is often communication, and is social, meaning that it is as much about how a user relates to other users as it is about how she relates to the screen, I use the concept of a "social interface." I break the screen into three modes: mirror, surface, and window, where the mirroring mode is involved when users see themselves reflected in the social "space," the surface is a filmic, print, web app or other representational design of content and activity, and the window mode is involved when users communicate directly to one another. Ascribing modalities seems to liberate, at least for me, the screen constraints (including layout, nav, visual design) from the user's mode of interaction. As I see it, the user mode of interaction is very different when he's engaged in a self-reflective relation to his own profile (e.g. on facebook) than when he's viewing a friend's profile. In the former, the user reflects on his own self as presented back to him; in the latter he projects into the friend's profile and brings to it the history of their relationship. (The user "experience" of viewing that profile pag differs for a good friend vs a new friend). This stuff transcends what's on the page, so it's seemed to me that we need design language for the modality of the user's engagement -- what each user brings to the personal and social representations framed in the page. Where you say action>reaction>interaction -- which is great -- I'd then add, for social media: action>reflection reaction>interaction action>communication communication>reciprocation and so on. Not worked out, but the gist of it would be to formulate action systems for mediated social environments. I take a stab at this in some of my slideshare presentations http://www.slideshare.net/gravity7 (originals are at: http://gravity7.com/slides.html). Actions in social systems are not limited to the interaction with what's on the screen -- social actions such as in facebook social games are better understood through the framing and handling of social interaction as covered by Erving Goffman, for example. Other communicative actions, which are those that solicit a response, again are governed by social convention, linguistics (questions vs promises vs gifts vs greetings etc etc), and so on. It's immensely complicated but I think a three part framework for social interaction can be designed around a few insights provided by sociology and psychology: self (self reflecting on self) other (self interested in other, or paired) relation (self interested in social action, requiring three + people) which gives us: monadic (one person) dyadic (a pair) triadic (a group) This works out nicely too in that it's reflected in social network analysis, where networks are understood in terms of an individual node, a pair, and triads. The triad is significant in that it forms the basis of social, as opposed to inter-personal, interaction. Triads mean that if A, B, and C are in a relation, then an interaction between A+B affects C. You can build all of society on 1, 2, and 3. A group of 4 can be two pairs, or a triad and an isolate. And so on... Social action then forms the basis of the interaction end of social interaction design; and screen modalities of mirror, surface, and window form the basis of the visual design. Or something like that! ;-) adrian On Oct 29, 2008, at 4:49 PM, Andy Polaine wrote: I suppose I'm thinking of the pure action>reaction>interaction of interactivity and interaction design when I think about trying to think beyond the page. It's often a case of moving beyond thinking of the screen (or browser window) as a framed space where things can be placed and more thinking of it as a window on a space where things can happen and that window can move over the space (as we're now seeing with things like the iPhone UI). Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Visual design and interaction should not be considered separate issues, and as long as they are, the final design will not be truly great. The very fact that exceptional visual design can compensate for poor interaction should be a big clue that, for the user, the whole design is one thing - that the visual aspects *are* the design in many ways, and to draw some imaginary line between visual and interaction design is artificial and often likely to erode the synergy of the final design. When these skills are found in one person - which does happen - so much the better. It's easier and faster to get holistic design when the designer has solid skills in both areas because there's a lot less back-and-forth involved; having a great interaction and a great visual designer is fine too, but they should become conjoined twins for the design process to enable great design. Having visual skills absolutely helps to design interaction. One of the first interactions the user has with a product is eye movement. Where the user's eye travels, how it tracks the product, what it is drawn to, all are a direct result of the visual design. If a workflow consists of "click this, go there, click that," the workflow is really "notice this, ignore those, click this, go there, ignore all of that, click that." If the visual flow isn't supporting that workflow, even subtly, you have a usability problem. The visuals - not just icons and prettiness, but how the design principles are employed, such as visual flow, continuity, hierarchy, feedback, proximity, visibility, mapping, visual distribution, etc. - are part of the overall experience and users will react to them. And this emotional response is absolutely a part of the interaction. "... no one "interacts" with our artwork, except to form an [...] emotional response..." That is the interaction. Consider these two things: http://screencast.com/t/pXQ9ia7FG Their designs are pretty much identical with only visual differences, but will a user interact with them in the same way? Sylvania Dye User Experience Designer Techsmith Corp. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Swurl is interesting, for its calendar view of user posts: http://gravity7.swurl.com/timeline Even more cool is dipity, which uses a horizontal timeline: http://www.dipity.com/gravity7 (also check the flipbook mode; both are cool-looking but add little in terms of utility) Swurl's timeline is nice, but still very much in the paper calendar mode (kind of retro blog these days even). I suppose I'm thinking of the pure action>reaction>interaction of interactivity and interaction design when I think about trying to think beyond the page. It's often a case of moving beyond thinking of the screen (or browser window) as a framed space where things can be placed and more thinking of it as a window on a space where things can happen and that window can move over the space (as we're now seeing with things like the iPhone UI). That's where, for example, Exposé was so interesting when it came out. It totally broke the metaphor of the desktop, but didn't interrupt the flow of working. In fact it enhanced it because it tapped into an metaphor of intention (analogous, I think, to peeking into a pile of papers and pulling the one you want out) as well as a wish for a magic desktop that spreads all its wares out and then neatly piles them back again. That more abstract or lateral usage of metaphor can be really powerful and is why I suspect that Bumptop is an awful idea: http://www.bumptop.com as a UI or OS. It's so literal it suffers from the same problem of a real, physical desktop, which seems to defeat the purpose. (I haven't used it yet though, maybe it feels great). Best, Andy Andy Polaine Research | Writing | Strategy Interaction Concept Design Education Futures Twitter: apolaine Skype: apolaine http://playpen.polaine.com http://www.designersreviewofbooks.com http://www.omnium.net.au http://www.antirom.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Andy, I think the point you're making is extremely valuable. I've been posting recently about lifestreaming apps, and the need for new paradigms for designing time-based social media. The user experience in lifestreaming (twitter, friendfeed, etc) involves message and presence-related issues, notifications, message addressing (@reply, direct), grouping, channels, and embedded media in a river or flow- based view that breaks the framework set up in web-page based social media. Swurl is interesting, for its calendar view of user posts: http://gravity7.swurl.com/timeline Even more cool is dipity, which uses a horizontal timeline: http://www.dipity.com/gravity7 (also check the flipbook mode; both are cool-looking but add little in terms of utility) And of course most of us use desktop apps or mobile for tweeting, where the scrollbar is a much more effective navigation mode than paging back through older posts. cheers, adrian http://www.gravity7.com/blog/media/ Andy, Now we're just coming out of that and thinking a bit differently again, but I think the ripples of 'page design' are still prevalent. All the multitouch stuff is the first really new set of interactions I've seen for a long time - the other sensor and camera-based stuff has been around for decades. Multitouch presents a whole new and interesting set of interactions (and I'm looking forward to Dan's book on it!) Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Interesting to hear. I guess it packs it all into a small device. The pen looks too thick for my tastes though. Both of the guys using the pen have evolved interesting indexing strategies with the special notebooks the pens use. I saw this - they've cleverly made some faux Moleskines for it - Fauxskines maybe? Best, Andy Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
user experience is primarily visually driven...then visual >skills are important to think through and design the >interaction How do "visual skills" help you think through and design interaction? When is an interactive system not action driven? Remember, we're talking about interaction design...(emphasis on the "-action"). How can action not always be implied? I think this is a real issue in much interaction design and certainly in a great deal of web design. The web's roots and (initial) underlying paradigm of pages has narrowed a lot of thinking and design. Many graphic designers moved over from print or static design to the web and the screen and web pages felt very static for a long time. Then Flash happened and we all know what went on there. Now we're just coming out of that and thinking a bit differently again, but I think the ripples of 'page design' are still prevalent. All the multitouch stuff is the first really new set of interactions I've seen for a long time - the other sensor and camera-based stuff has been around for decades. Multitouch presents a whole new and interesting set of interactions (and I'm looking forward to Dan's book on it!) Best, Andy Andy Polaine Research | Writing | Strategy Interaction Concept Design Education Futures Twitter: apolaine Skype: apolaine http://playpen.polaine.com http://www.designersreviewofbooks.com http://www.omnium.net.au http://www.antirom.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
>user experience is primarily visually driven...then visual >skills are important to think through and design the >interaction How do "visual skills" help you think through and design interaction? In my art class, we talk about weight, line, mass (etc)...but no one "interacts" with our artwork, except to form an opinion or emotional response. When is an interactive system not action driven? Remember, we're talking about interaction design...(emphasis on the "-action"). How can action not always be implied? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Hi Andy, There are two guys I work with who use them. One is the writer on our dev team - he records every meeting with his pen while taking notes and gets a lot of interesting little details that way. We chuckle sometimes when he says "hold on a sec - I need to reboot my pen" but he's capturing good stuff with it. Both of the guys using the pen have evolved interesting indexing strategies with the special notebooks the pens use. It's like a real-time IA project for them to configure navigation into content. They've created tables of contents and so on in their notebooks. It's the first time I've seen end users invent their own content navigation into a repository that's half paper and half digital and entirely spontaneous. I have noticed that both of them take deliberate concise notes in a neat hand. Scrawlers/doodlers like me probably would have some trouble with it. Michael Micheletti On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 3:15 AM, Andy Polaine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Any thoughts about whether http://www.livescribe.com/ Pulse constitutes >> great interaction? >> > > Has anyone here used one much, for that matter? Are they any good as a pen > as well as the tech of it? Looks like it might be a quick way of capturing > research notes, but then a scanner/camera and a normal pen and paper might > be just as fast. > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Barbara, The idea seems good, but even from the video it is hard to know how it all executes. But to the point of the thread there are a ton of Visual elements throughout the design ecosystem for sure! Please send a Pen & notebook my way for evaluation and review. ;-) -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
I think I mentioned ticketing machines a while back in this thread, albeit in the other direction, that they can have a lot of visual design sometimes but very little direct interaction (a single button press on some). Both, of course, are part of the UI, which just goes to show how overlapping interaction design and visual design can be. I really think the answer to the question "Can an interaction designer create (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?" is: It depends. If the user experience is primarily visually driven (something with a lot of graphic information design, for example) then visual skills are important to think through and design the interaction. If it's primarily action driven (perhaps on a physical product) then the interaction skills would come to the fore. Multitouch requires them both because often the interface and the content are the same thing, as it were. Then, of course, there are disciplines like Service Design that might be about designing verbal or human-human interactions, which requires another set of skills, not primarily visual, although it helps to describe what you are on about. It also depends on who you are working with too. Martin Scorsese's storyboards for Taxi Driver were pretty much just stick men drawings. Michael Chapman's cinematography brought to life the miserable rain- soaked loneliness of late-night New York taxi driving. (Thanks to the wonder that is YouTube, you can watch a side-by-side comparison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvQV21hkMjI ) Best, Andy Andy Polaine Research | Writing | Strategy Interaction Concept Design Education Futures Twitter: apolaine Skype: apolaine http://playpen.polaine.com http://www.designersreviewofbooks.com http://www.omnium.net.au http://www.antirom.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Any thoughts about whether http://www.livescribe.com/ Pulse constitutes great interaction? Has anyone here used one much, for that matter? Are they any good as a pen as well as the tech of it? Looks like it might be a quick way of capturing research notes, but then a scanner/camera and a normal pen and paper might be just as fast. Best, Andy Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
On Oct 28, 2008, at 1:46 p, allison wrote: My point was that while interactive products need to have great interaction, not every interactive product needs to have *visual* design. What about the Metro card machines in the NYC subway system? They're cute but the UI is pretty basic. Despite this the interaction design is great b/c they're fast and so easy to use. What level of visual or product design skill, or engineering for that matter, did those designers need to have in order to create a great interaction design? Any thoughts about whether http://www.livescribe.com/ Pulse constitutes great interaction? --- Barbara Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Designing compelling, usable, and device-appropriate software and web sites for mobile devices. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
great point -- as there are also many ticketing machines that are well designed, visually, but hard to use. Some because they use similar or even the same slot for inserting ccard or ticket (that always throws me off); or because the sequencing of steps is out of visual order (e.g. not top left to bottom right but higgledy - piggledy). I love the ones that have pasted-on hand-written explanations or drawings. For example of the proper way to hold the ccard when sliding -- strip in or out (this one also throws me all the time). Which creates an example of good interaction but bad UI on the help messaging (there's nothing wrong with the ccard slider but the graphical perspective of the card is weird). and what of the interaction design on a voicemail navigation system? interaction and interface, whether its visual, acoustic, sequenced, serial, discontinuous, continuous, seem only loosely coupled to me a My point was that while interactive products need to have great interaction, not every interactive product needs to have *visual* design. What about the Metro card machines in the NYC subway system? They're cute but the UI is pretty basic. Despite this the interaction design is great b/c they're fast and so easy to use. cheers, adrian chan 415 516 4442 Social Interaction Design (www.gravity7.com) Sr Fellow, Society for New Communications Research (www.SNCR.org) LinkedIn (www.linkedin.com/in/adrianchan) Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
> that there is a strong dependency on how/if the interaction will work Rein, what do you mean by this? I'm under the impression that "how/if the interaction will work" would be the main focus of an interaction designer's job... This statement sort of sounds like, well, it's not...?? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
I think most companies who care about having great interaction design would also have at least pretty good and probably great visual design. Have you used Craigslist in the last 5 years? What visual designer would put the Craigslist design in their portfolio? Yup. It's a great idea, service and system, but it's no great shakes in either interaction design or visual design. That's not where its strength lies. It doesn't make it bad (it's good) and it does go to show a simple idea can have a simple design, but it doesn't go against what I originally said. I still can't think of something that has great interaction design and rubbish visual design, but I can't think of plenty the other way around. Best, Andy Andy Polaine Research | Writing | Strategy Interaction Concept Design Education Futures Twitter: apolaine Skype: apolaine http://playpen.polaine.com http://www.designersreviewofbooks.com http://www.omnium.net.au http://www.antirom.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
> Ah, but the question was (I think) whether they have great interactions even if they don't have great visual design. I understood the question to be 'Can the designer create great interaction without great visual design skills?' This seems like a difficult question to answer objectively without personally knowing a designer and their designs. My point was that while interactive products need to have great interaction, not every interactive product needs to have *visual* design. What about the Metro card machines in the NYC subway system? They're cute but the UI is pretty basic. Despite this the interaction design is great b/c they're fast and so easy to use. What level of visual or product design skill, or engineering for that matter, did those designers need to have in order to create a great interaction design? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
On Oct 28, 2008, at 3:49 AM, Andy Polaine wrote: I think most companies who care about having great interaction design would also have at least pretty good and probably great visual design. Have you used Craigslist in the last 5 years? What visual designer would put the Craigslist design in their portfolio? Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Ah, but the question was (I think) whether they have great interactions even if they don't have great visual design. I have a feeling that this is a self-selecting process, though. I think most companies who care about having great interaction design would also have at least pretty good and probably great visual design. The reverse isn't true though - there are plenty of things that look great but the interaction is rubbish – almost all consumer electronics by Sony, for example. Best, Andy On 27 Oct 2008, at 17:31, allison wrote: Here are things in my apartment that I interact with that do not really have (great) visual designs: Microwave Digital display on my stove DVR/cable menu DVD/VHS player TV menu iPod - maybe the one exception...but really it's mostly text mp3 player alarm clock Here's stuff at work: Printer/Copy machine IP phone Vending machine Car radio (on the way to work) Badge security scanner (actually only consists of a dual LED, dual sound response, and a scanner, but everyone who's never used it before always sets it off b/c you have to wait 2 seconds before going through the gate.) Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Here are things in my apartment that I interact with that do not really have (great) visual designs: Microwave Digital display on my stove DVR/cable menu DVD/VHS player TV menu iPod - maybe the one exception...but really it's mostly text mp3 player alarm clock Here's stuff at work: Printer/Copy machine IP phone Vending machine Car radio (on the way to work) Badge security scanner (actually only consists of a dual LED, dual sound response, and a scanner, but everyone who's never used it before always sets it off b/c you have to wait 2 seconds before going through the gate.) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Hello Jonas Loevgren, i agree with you. I myself isnt a (great) visual designer yet I was able to communicate your `fluency` concept in my Low Involvement Interaction solution. (Thesis) Your work was suggested to me by my thesis advisor Tomas Sokoler. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
As a side note, I recently met with a recruiter for an interaction design job. In the job description they asked for people who could research requirements/competitors, define the behavior of XYZ in wireframes and written documentation, and conduct user testing, etc. However, for all practical purposes it seemed that what they really wanted was an information architect to make lots and lots of wireframes. That is interaction designer == information architect. They also stated that an understanding of visual design was desired, since you may work side by side with visual designers. Prototyping as a skill or responsibility was not mentioned at all. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Yes, unless the people doing the hiring have confused interaction design with visual design. However, you will probably be better off (and more marketable) if you know about visual design, but I see it as more akin to having understanding something about programming (or whatever medium you're designing for.) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great)interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Hi Rein, I believe as Interaction Designer you should work closely with your visual designers (and developers, industrial designers, etc). In my opinion this part can never be missing. Some interaction problems can best be solved graphically or can better be combined with a nice piece of visual design. IxD is important, it makes sure that everything works the way it should (sounds easy when I type it :-) ). Anything big until the tiniest of nuances needed so the user has a great experience working with the product - or at least doesn%u2019t get irritated using it. Truth is that the visual design is often the first thing the user will notice. Any mistakes made on this part aren%u2019t necessarily killing (take myspace), but success will become more difficult and maybe even a guessing game when you ignore the visual designer. IMHO both should always go hand in hand. Best, Erik . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great)interaction without (great) visual design skills?
ressive (from a dramatic visual design >perspective-- I loved doing double-truck full bleed print designs, heavy >with photos, 20x30 color posters, etc), and bandwidth concerns are always >nipping at our heels. As a visual designer, I still find the constraints of >the web too... constraining. Good thing I'm not doing that full time, >nothing but visual design, obsessing on fonts, color palettes, pixels, and >res. I think I'd be going crazy. > >Sorry in advance if I am blaspheming overmuch. I mean, because we do still >have trendy wireframe fonts, and are rounded corners in this year, or out? >Hemlines. Should I wear a miniskirt? Or are the hemlines coming back down >again? > >Chris > >On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 12:03 AM, Hernandez, Barbara < >[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hi all >> >> I work every day with multi-talented designers who are the whole package >> and more. They take our designs from concept to finished art. They are >> masters of both interaction and visual design (and no you can't have them >> :)). >> >> That said, I have worked on both sides of this argument. I have worked as >> an interaction designer who relied on graphic artists to create the >graphics >> for my designs. Looking back, and now having worked with the designers on >my >> team, most of the graphics artists I worked with in the past with could >> function easily as interaction designers. Some of them did - but only on >> their portfolio sites, not at work. >> >> In other cases, I struggled with graphic artists that worked in the print >> world and didn't get the interactive component so it was near impossible to >> get the visual design to support the interaction. >> >> Is there room for both specializations, sure, IMHO we get great, world >> class design from designers with talent for both interaction and visual >> design. And yes, we call them User Experience Designers because they design >> the whole experience. >> >> Regards >> Barb Hernandez >> User Experience Manager | TechSmith Corporation >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Zaki >> Warfel >> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:32 AM >> To: Dennis, Alan >> Cc: IxDA list >> Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) >> interaction without (great) visual design skills? >> >> >> On Oct 17, 2008, at 8:53 AM, Dennis, Alan wrote: >> >> > Basically, my point is that if you want to make great designs, I do >> > believe you need to have somewhat of an understanding in the various >> > disciplines involved. Visual design is one of those disciplines that >> > can help immensely. >> >> Having an understanding and appreciation for a related discipline >> isn't the same as being a master of it. Good visual design can enhance >> interactions, or can break them. The interaction design is the >> foundation of a good design. >> >> I believe that being a good interaction design who has good visual >> design skills is better than one who doesn't. However, I don't believe >> for a minute that you can't be a good interaction designer if you >> don't have good visual design skills. As long as you understand the >> practice and appreciate it, then you can be a great interaction >> designer. >> >> Stating interaction designers have to be good visual designers is like >> saying good programmers have to be good interaction designers. >> Software development is an evolutionary process. We rely on each other >> as a team. >> >> >> Cheers! >> >> Todd Zaki Warfel >> President, Design Researcher >> Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully. >> -- >> Contact Info >> Voice: (215) 825-7423 >> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> AIM:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Blog: http://toddwarfel.com >> Twitter:zakiwarfel >> -- >> In theory, theory and practice are the same. >> In practice, they are not. >> >> >> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! >> To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe >> List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines >> List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help >> >> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! >> To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe >> List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines >> List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help >> > >Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! >To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe >List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines >List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
My short answer is yes. I think they're different but related skills. I'm not saying I'm a great interaction designer, but I do feel more of an interaction designer than a graphic designer. I can do graphic design, but it doesn't interest me as much. I can creatively direct much better than I can do it myself (re: do what I say, not what I do). The main reason is that whilst I can see where a piece of graphic design needs work, I don't have the patience to work it into where it needs to be. Other people find the same with writing - I like editing and re-writing my written work, but others hate that process. If there was any truth to the idea of 'talent' I would say it is being willing to work through the inevitable dip that all projects have. At some point it's just hard work. But I can design interaction and I have enough visual skills to get that across. Wireframing should give you the answer to your question here anyway. That's where the meat of the interaction design often happens and they're deliberately not visually rich. We had the "interaction design" vs "interface design" thread just recently and I was thinking about this again last night. I'm always tempted to call interface design a subset of interaction design, but they can both be subsets of each other depending on the project. The interface to a ticketing machine might involve a great deal of graphic design and just one button for the actual interaction. On the other hand something with a lot more interactive controls or interactive elements and experiences is more dominated by the interaction design than the graphic design. In other words, you can have crappy interaction and a great visual interface or vice versa. It's easy for either side to get too absorbed in their own area and neglect the other part. Graphic design and illustration obviously require great visual design skills, but the most important design skill in design is the way you think. I think that is what separates designers of all kinds from non- designers who know how to use some of the tools. Graphic design and illustration and product and industrial design have had this overlap issue for years (my grandfather was a "commercial artist" who did illustration, design and hand-drawn typography, for example). I don't think we'll resolve it in interaction/interface design anytime soon. We're all interfaceraction designers. Best, Andy Andy Polaine Research | Writing | Strategy Interaction Concept Design Education Futures Twitter: apolaine Skype: apolaine http://playpen.polaine.com http://www.designersreviewofbooks.com http://www.omnium.net.au http://www.antirom.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
o support the interaction. > > Is there room for both specializations, sure, IMHO we get great, world > class design from designers with talent for both interaction and visual > design. And yes, we call them User Experience Designers because they design > the whole experience. > > Regards > Barb Hernandez > User Experience Manager | TechSmith Corporation > > > -Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Zaki > Warfel > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:32 AM > To: Dennis, Alan > Cc: IxDA list > Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) > interaction without (great) visual design skills? > > > On Oct 17, 2008, at 8:53 AM, Dennis, Alan wrote: > > > Basically, my point is that if you want to make great designs, I do > > believe you need to have somewhat of an understanding in the various > > disciplines involved. Visual design is one of those disciplines that > > can help immensely. > > Having an understanding and appreciation for a related discipline > isn't the same as being a master of it. Good visual design can enhance > interactions, or can break them. The interaction design is the > foundation of a good design. > > I believe that being a good interaction design who has good visual > design skills is better than one who doesn't. However, I don't believe > for a minute that you can't be a good interaction designer if you > don't have good visual design skills. As long as you understand the > practice and appreciate it, then you can be a great interaction > designer. > > Stating interaction designers have to be good visual designers is like > saying good programmers have to be good interaction designers. > Software development is an evolutionary process. We rely on each other > as a team. > > > Cheers! > > Todd Zaki Warfel > President, Design Researcher > Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully. > -- > Contact Info > Voice: (215) 825-7423 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > AIM:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Blog: http://toddwarfel.com > Twitter:zakiwarfel > -- > In theory, theory and practice are the same. > In practice, they are not. > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Hi all I work every day with multi-talented designers who are the whole package and more. They take our designs from concept to finished art. They are masters of both interaction and visual design (and no you can't have them :)). That said, I have worked on both sides of this argument. I have worked as an interaction designer who relied on graphic artists to create the graphics for my designs. Looking back, and now having worked with the designers on my team, most of the graphics artists I worked with in the past with could function easily as interaction designers. Some of them did - but only on their portfolio sites, not at work. In other cases, I struggled with graphic artists that worked in the print world and didn't get the interactive component so it was near impossible to get the visual design to support the interaction. Is there room for both specializations, sure, IMHO we get great, world class design from designers with talent for both interaction and visual design. And yes, we call them User Experience Designers because they design the whole experience. Regards Barb Hernandez User Experience Manager | TechSmith Corporation -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Zaki Warfel Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:32 AM To: Dennis, Alan Cc: IxDA list Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills? On Oct 17, 2008, at 8:53 AM, Dennis, Alan wrote: > Basically, my point is that if you want to make great designs, I do > believe you need to have somewhat of an understanding in the various > disciplines involved. Visual design is one of those disciplines that > can help immensely. Having an understanding and appreciation for a related discipline isn't the same as being a master of it. Good visual design can enhance interactions, or can break them. The interaction design is the foundation of a good design. I believe that being a good interaction design who has good visual design skills is better than one who doesn't. However, I don't believe for a minute that you can't be a good interaction designer if you don't have good visual design skills. As long as you understand the practice and appreciate it, then you can be a great interaction designer. Stating interaction designers have to be good visual designers is like saying good programmers have to be good interaction designers. Software development is an evolutionary process. We rely on each other as a team. Cheers! Todd Zaki Warfel President, Design Researcher Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully. -- Contact Info Voice: (215) 825-7423 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog: http://toddwarfel.com Twitter:zakiwarfel -- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
On Oct 17, 2008, at 8:53 AM, Dennis, Alan wrote: Basically, my point is that if you want to make great designs, I do believe you need to have somewhat of an understanding in the various disciplines involved. Visual design is one of those disciplines that can help immensely. Having an understanding and appreciation for a related discipline isn't the same as being a master of it. Good visual design can enhance interactions, or can break them. The interaction design is the foundation of a good design. I believe that being a good interaction design who has good visual design skills is better than one who doesn't. However, I don't believe for a minute that you can't be a good interaction designer if you don't have good visual design skills. As long as you understand the practice and appreciate it, then you can be a great interaction designer. Stating interaction designers have to be good visual designers is like saying good programmers have to be good interaction designers. Software development is an evolutionary process. We rely on each other as a team. Cheers! Todd Zaki Warfel President, Design Researcher Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully. -- Contact Info Voice: (215) 825-7423 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog: http://toddwarfel.com Twitter:zakiwarfel -- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
So, this is actually my first reply to this list, but I thought I'd jump in because this actually spawned a conversation here where I work. Janne, I think your response hits the nail on the head. As we are heading into a more visual and all around higher fidelity world of interactions in software products (iPhone, Vista with WPF, Core Animation on the Mac, etc...), visual design skills are becoming more and more valuable for interaction designers - or whatever title you give yourself for being the person that "figures out the user interface." Certainly there are specializations as products grow complex (as someone pointed out with the game industry, which started out with a programmer doing EVERYTHING and now has full time people just making 3d props!). However, I believe cross discipline talents are key as we're navigating these new waters of interactions. Animations, graphic design, typography, general layout - all of these things are going to play key roles in establishing excellent experiences with software. Basically, a gigantic mixture of disciplines are coming together to form what we consider to be excell ent interactions. So, do you need to be a master of each discipline? Absolutely not. I hardly expect myself to be a master of animation. I've taken 2 animations classes in the past and I hope to never have to draw a walk animation cycle ever again. But I took the classes - and I have an understanding of the fundamentals and my work has improved because of it. In fact, the information I gleaned from all my "visual design" research and classes over the years has proven invaluable while creating interactive prototypes to design Uis that I'm working on. Of course, I've also made a point to learn programming (to a noobish level, I'll admit, but I only make prototypes), because that plays a role in the future as well. In a sense, I believe that interaction designers need to strive to be rennaissance computer nerds. Which, hey, that's the fun part, right?! We should count ourselves lucky. :) Basically, my point is that if you want to make great designs, I do believe you need to have somewhat of an understanding in the various disciplines involved. Visual design is one of those disciplines that can help immensely. Sure, sometimes you can have a situation where you have an interaction designer and a visual designer and they are completely separate. And sometimes that situation will produce a great product. But, I truly believe there would be far more synergy if that visual designer had some interaction design chops, as well as the interaction designer knowing a thing or two about visual design. And if that were the case, that great product just went from great to awesome. -Alan Dennis User Experience Designer TechSmith Corporation | www.TechSmith.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janne Kaasalainen Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 4:15 AM To: IxDA list Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills? My gut feeling and experience is that an interaction designer should have a good understanding of the medium he's designing for, whether this is visual, physical, aural or something else. Visuals are a nice example case, though, so pardon me for concentrating on that for the rest of this reply. One of the issues with using just the wireframes is that some problems can extend to visual domain and vice versa. A solution to an interaction problem can be a visual design issue. A visual design issue can be solved via interaction. The separation of all parts of the systems (coding, visuals, interaction, marketing, etc.) seem to be artificial, to me at least, and mostly due to practical issues. The more you can break down the barriers, the easier design seems to become. To what level that can or should be done is another complex issue. However, all this also depends on the team, how it operates and what kind of people are in it. One can't be an expert in everything, of course, yet there needs to be understanding about the various aspects. Diversity can be a solution, but there are practical limits with that as well. Plus there are benefits of keeping teams small. Thus, imho, interaction designer should be able to be at least adequate in visual design (or applicable field) to be worth his salt. Regards, Janne Kaasalainen Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
The "visual design" fades quickly ... a stellar interaction design remains constant and is what keeps people engaged with the product. If the visuals are nice but the IXD is crap, no amount of nice visuals will help the product. Its like applying a nice skin on a flawed IXD/wireframe/workflow. Note -- Both are important but IXD has a lasting effect. :) rgds, Dan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Unlikely, what you're asking from someone is too visualise the potential of your solution, and visionary business clients are few and far between my friend. It's your job to make them recognise the business value of what you do. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Bugger. Just did a reply instead of a reply to all. Tim On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Tim Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > So, I'm not a visual designer and don't think you have to have visual > design skills to create great interaction. However, you do need visual > design skills to make them look good! > > http://www.sbscanworks.com/ > > It's designed to be easy to interact with. Sure, a visual designer could > make it look better. But the interaction is easy. I've even done user > testing! (and have a couple of changes to make as a result). On a different > note, I've seen many "visual designer's" websites that are damn near > impossible to use. > > The real question, of course, is: > > For project X, what mix of visual design and interaction design skills do > we need to deliver value for our stakeholders? > > (the mix will vary depending on the project and the users) > > Tim > > > On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 8:35 AM, Andrei Herasimchuk < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Oct 15, 2008, at 12:32 PM, mark schraad wrote: >> >> examples of what? >>> >> >> Examples of "great working interaction without having visual design >> skills." >> >> -- >> Andrei Herasimchuk >> >> Principal, Involution Studios >> innovating the digital world >> >> e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> c. +1 408 306 6422 >> >> >> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! >> To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe >> List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines >> List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help >> > > > > -- > Kei te kōrero tiki au. Kei te kōrero tiki koe. Ka kōrero tiki tāua. Kōrero > ai tiki tāua. > -- Kei te kōrero tiki au. Kei te kōrero tiki koe. Ka kōrero tiki tāua. Kōrero ai tiki tāua. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
I agree with lot of previous comments that its very important to have a good sense of visual design to be a good interaction designer. However it depends on product you are building are the target audience. For e.g. I have developed Call Center application and didn't do much visual design at all. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
If you are designing a user interface, visual design skills are a plus. But if you're working with a great visual designer, you should be all good. If you're designing how different silos of an organization interact with each other, great visual design skills are still a plus, but may be irrelevant. Let's not assume all interaction design deals with screens or visuals. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Janne, I think your gut is correct; the better a designer understands the constraints of the medium he is designing for, the better the end result will be. The process of generating a "great interaction design" is a consideration that is at least as important as the final design itself. While one does not need to know the constraints of HTML, CSS, Javascript, and cross-browser compatibility to design a web site, it certainly makes things a lot more efficient. Otherwise, you'll spend a lot of time going back and forth with developers telling you what is and is not possible. And since time is a fixed resource, that is a massive opportunity cost that could otherwise be spent interating on a good design to make it even better. Also, there are many facets to "visual design". I strongly believe that all interaction designers should understand the basics of page layout, visual heirarchy, alignment, grid systems, and typography. As such, I highly recommend all interaction designers internalize the concepts in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Non-Designers-Design-Type-Books-Deluxe/dp/0321534050/&t=readishmael-20 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
How to Design for Start-Up without Closely Defined I'm noticing a pattern with certain web startups. They want you to design for their website or app, but the problem is they have different audiences. So my dilemma is since a startup is needing to launch a product as soon as possible and their budgets are low, what are some good approaches for handling this type of pickle? I am eager to hear anyone else's advice and shared experiences. ~Phil . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
I think, interaction design is about to guide the user, to explain the meaning of elements in a non-verbose way. For example: you can use visual elements like shadows or texture to simulate surface feel ... The shadow has not to be beautiful or proportional to look like a shadow. Also the designer does not need expert skills in using Photoshop or similar software. He needs to know what interaction design is all about. -- Stefan Nitzsche http://nitzsche.info/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
I seem to be alternately skillful in interaction work and graphic design work (and programming for that matter), but seldom all at once. Seems like a few days and a serious change of focus is needed to switch between the crafts. I'm mindful of athletes who compete in multiple sports during the year, but need to train and focus on one sport at a time. So even though I'm alternating between sketch pad and code today, the sketches are raw and I'm more technically focused. Programmer Brain and Designer Brain are different. And I think you're right Will. I've known Great graphic designers and Great programmers (currently surrounded by the latter), and look up to them with respect. They give me something to aspire to and lots of ideas. They're fun to work with. But even if I've a long ways to go yet, there's some benefit in occupying the intersection between related crafts. Having some facility in coding, graphics work and interaction design has been very helpful to me. I try to be aware of which craft I need to seriously focus on and learn about at the moment (right now it's code, I suspect next will be graphic design), and I would recommend this sort of cross-training to others as well. Michael Micheletti On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 3:34 AM, Will Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > "But to argue that a designer can't be both? I'm sorry, Will, but you don't > have a leg to stand on." > > I did not argue that they can't be both - I merely argues that I have not > seen one that is "Great" at one also "Great" at another. Perhaps my > judgment > of what constitutes Great is very different than many others. I know for a > fact that IxD can learn GD, and vis verse - I am talking about greatness - > not merely possessing the skills. I was more hinting that the greatness in > both is orthogonal b/c I have not seen it overlap in one person - and this > is completely a subjective call since what I may consider decent/okay GD - > you may consider great. > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
"But to argue that a designer can't be both? I'm sorry, Will, but you don't have a leg to stand on." I did not argue that they can't be both - I merely argues that I have not seen one that is "Great" at one also "Great" at another. Perhaps my judgment of what constitutes Great is very different than many others. I know for a fact that IxD can learn GD, and vis verse - I am talking about greatness - not merely possessing the skills. I was more hinting that the greatness in both is orthogonal b/c I have not seen it overlap in one person - and this is completely a subjective call since what I may consider decent/okay GD - you may consider great. On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 1:18 AM, Jack Moffett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Oct 15, 2008, at 7:34 PM, Will Evans wrote: > > I have seen some great interactions. I have known some fantastic >> interaction >> designs. I have also know some fantastic visual designs/designer/s. the >> two >> sets are orthogonal and do not overlap - I have not met one great IxDer >> that >> was also a great visual designer. Not even in La-la SF/bay area moonbat >> treehugger land. >> > > > Will, perhaps you haven't, but we exist nonetheless. I have known many, and > I'm sure there are many others on this list that can claim both skill sets. > I've even known a couple that are extremely talented in IxD and GD, and are > decent programmers. > > Your assertion that Interaction Design and Visual Design are orthogonal > couldn't be more wrong. It is a perfectly logical route to move from > Graphic/Communication Design into Interaction Design. It is also completely > natural for an Industrial Designer to practice IxD. The training in either > field is a perfect background to build upon. > > Do I then believe, like Andrei, that an IxDer must have this combination? > No. I've known enough very talented IxDers that aren't visual designers to > be disabused of such a notion. Do I believe that visual design skills make > an IxDer better than s/he would be without them? Absolutely. > > But to argue that a designer can't be both? I'm sorry, Will, but you don't > have a leg to stand on. > > Best, > Jack > > > Jack L. Moffett > Interaction Designer > inmedius > 412.459.0310 x219 > http://www.inmedius.com > > > First, recognize that the 'right' requirements > are in principle unknowable by users, customers > and designers at the start. > > Devise the design process, and the formal > agreement between designers and customers and users, > to be sensitive to what is learnt by any of the > parties as the design evolves. > > - J.C. Jones > > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > -- ~ will "Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems" - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.1281 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
My gut feeling and experience is that an interaction designer should have a good understanding of the medium he's designing for, whether this is visual, physical, aural or something else. Visuals are a nice example case, though, so pardon me for concentrating on that for the rest of this reply. One of the issues with using just the wireframes is that some problems can extend to visual domain and vice versa. A solution to an interaction problem can be a visual design issue. A visual design issue can be solved via interaction. The separation of all parts of the systems (coding, visuals, interaction, marketing, etc.) seem to be artificial, to me at least, and mostly due to practical issues. The more you can break down the barriers, the easier design seems to become. To what level that can or should be done is another complex issue. However, all this also depends on the team, how it operates and what kind of people are in it. One can't be an expert in everything, of course, yet there needs to be understanding about the various aspects. Diversity can be a solution, but there are practical limits with that as well. Plus there are benefits of keeping teams small. Thus, imho, interaction designer should be able to be at least adequate in visual design (or applicable field) to be worth his salt. Regards, Janne Kaasalainen Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
On Oct 15, 2008, at 7:34 PM, Will Evans wrote: I have seen some great interactions. I have known some fantastic interaction designs. I have also know some fantastic visual designs/designer/s. the two sets are orthogonal and do not overlap - I have not met one great IxDer that was also a great visual designer. Not even in La-la SF/bay area moonbat treehugger land. Will, perhaps you haven't, but we exist nonetheless. I have known many, and I'm sure there are many others on this list that can claim both skill sets. I've even known a couple that are extremely talented in IxD and GD, and are decent programmers. Your assertion that Interaction Design and Visual Design are orthogonal couldn't be more wrong. It is a perfectly logical route to move from Graphic/Communication Design into Interaction Design. It is also completely natural for an Industrial Designer to practice IxD. The training in either field is a perfect background to build upon. Do I then believe, like Andrei, that an IxDer must have this combination? No. I've known enough very talented IxDers that aren't visual designers to be disabused of such a notion. Do I believe that visual design skills make an IxDer better than s/he would be without them? Absolutely. But to argue that a designer can't be both? I'm sorry, Will, but you don't have a leg to stand on. Best, Jack Jack L. Moffett Interaction Designer inmedius 412.459.0310 x219 http://www.inmedius.com First, recognize that the ‘right’ requirements are in principle unknowable by users, customers and designers at the start. Devise the design process, and the formal agreement between designers and customers and users, to be sensitive to what is learnt by any of the parties as the design evolves. - J.C. Jones Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
but perhaps its just the nature of the fact that this list is, frankly, so webcentric. I think back to some very good work that I admire - the Bose Media system's IxD in the Ferrari 612 is something I admire - and would loved to have worked on, save for the fact that I couldn't work at a cult-of-personality company like Bose with their forced socialization policies, but I digress. Audio system IxD in cars presents so many great pitfalls and concerns that web ixd design will simply never have to work under that they should be considered different fields. Same thing for airplane cockpits and air traffic control UIs. Compared to those - web ixd is moveable type (Gutenberg, not blogging) compared to emacs. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Will Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Andrei et al, > > I have seen some great interactions. I have known some fantastic > interaction designs. I have also know some fantastic visual > designs/designer/s. the two sets are orthogonal and do not overlap - I have > not met one great IxDer that was also a great visual designer. Not even in > La-la SF/bay area moonbat treehugger land. > > I have also seen very few - if any at all - great web interaction designs > because in that regard you are right - the web was built as a document > linking platform and to the extent that there is a "browser" you have a > page-link-page underlying system model - not a rich interactions paradigm > like you get with sovereign applications. Doesn't mean we don't need to > train up IxD folks that only know the web - but for those who have spent > many years doing thick client IxD work - the RIA-less web with its links and > simple form elements is kindergarten no matter how you slice it - and > spending 5 or 10 years doing just web IxD will never let you explore the > deeper issues that any 2nd year HCI student should know like the back of > their hand. But these are just my opinions and as we all know, 1. they are > like __ (everyone has one) and 2. they won't even buy you a cup of coffee. > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 7:21 PM, Jeff Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Andrei wrote: >> > No. No matter what anyone else says. >> > Ok... let's see some example then? >> > Examples of "great working interaction without >> > having visual design skills." >> >> I feel like we covered this upstream in the thread. Pick any >> "great" interaction without a visual component and your argument >> quickly unravels. >> >> Audio phone interfaces are probably the most common example. You >> can't "see" them, but that's the point. >> >> 1-800-555-TELLME >> >> I have no idea whether the designer for the Tell Me service had >> visual design skills but it isn't expressed in the interface because >> the interface isn't visual. >> >> There's no need to address whether it's possible to find >> counter-examples in the visual domain because the argument you're >> making is absolute in nature. Only one counter-example is necessary. >> >> Perhaps we can quibble over whether this service is in fact a >> "great" interaction, but that's a topic for another thread. >> >> // jeff >> >> >> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> Posted from the new ixda.org >> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 >> >> >> >> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! >> To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe >> List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines >> List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help >> > > > > -- > ~ will > > "Where you innovate, how you innovate, > and what you innovate are design problems" > > > - > Will Evans | User Experience Architect > tel: +1.617.281.1281 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] > aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 > twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill > > - > > -- ~ will "Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems" - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.1281 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
http://www.google.com/mobile/default/sms/#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=hu&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google sms&dc=gh0sss I'm really sorry. This is what I meant to post as the link. I'm gonna shut up now. Last time ever, I promise. Will . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Andrei et al, I have seen some great interactions. I have known some fantastic interaction designs. I have also know some fantastic visual designs/designer/s. the two sets are orthogonal and do not overlap - I have not met one great IxDer that was also a great visual designer. Not even in La-la SF/bay area moonbat treehugger land. I have also seen very few - if any at all - great web interaction designs because in that regard you are right - the web was built as a document linking platform and to the extent that there is a "browser" you have a page-link-page underlying system model - not a rich interactions paradigm like you get with sovereign applications. Doesn't mean we don't need to train up IxD folks that only know the web - but for those who have spent many years doing thick client IxD work - the RIA-less web with its links and simple form elements is kindergarten no matter how you slice it - and spending 5 or 10 years doing just web IxD will never let you explore the deeper issues that any 2nd year HCI student should know like the back of their hand. But these are just my opinions and as we all know, 1. they are like __ (everyone has one) and 2. they won't even buy you a cup of coffee. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 7:21 PM, Jeff Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Andrei wrote: > > No. No matter what anyone else says. > > Ok... let's see some example then? > > Examples of "great working interaction without > > having visual design skills." > > I feel like we covered this upstream in the thread. Pick any > "great" interaction without a visual component and your argument > quickly unravels. > > Audio phone interfaces are probably the most common example. You > can't "see" them, but that's the point. > > 1-800-555-TELLME > > I have no idea whether the designer for the Tell Me service had > visual design skills but it isn't expressed in the interface because > the interface isn't visual. > > There's no need to address whether it's possible to find > counter-examples in the visual domain because the argument you're > making is absolute in nature. Only one counter-example is necessary. > > Perhaps we can quibble over whether this service is in fact a > "great" interaction, but that's a topic for another thread. > > // jeff > > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > Posted from the new ixda.org > http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > -- ~ will "Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems" - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.1281 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
http://www.google.com/mobile For people who don't want to spend the 10cents to txt google, they have a demo here that will show you all the fun things it can do. Sorry for the double post Will . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
google sms 411. Text a person's name and city where they live to GOOGL. This is a great, graphic-less, visual interface. Will . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Andrei wrote: > No. No matter what anyone else says. > Ok... let's see some example then? > Examples of "great working interaction without > having visual design skills." I feel like we covered this upstream in the thread. Pick any "great" interaction without a visual component and your argument quickly unravels. Audio phone interfaces are probably the most common example. You can't "see" them, but that's the point. 1-800-555-TELLME I have no idea whether the designer for the Tell Me service had visual design skills but it isn't expressed in the interface because the interface isn't visual. There's no need to address whether it's possible to find counter-examples in the visual domain because the argument you're making is absolute in nature. Only one counter-example is necessary. Perhaps we can quibble over whether this service is in fact a "great" interaction, but that's a topic for another thread. // jeff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
coming back online after an accidental detour... On Oct 15, 2008, at 6:50 PM, Andrei Herasimchuk wrote: Hope you don't mind, I'm adding Dave to this so I don't have to repeat myself. 8^) On Oct 15, 2008, at 2:18 PM, mark schraad wrote: I think Dave mentioned a few... craigslist... google. This is where we tend to disagree, or where I largely disagree with folks on this list. I think both Google and Craig's List are horrible examples of interaction in action. Crude at best. Nothing "great" about them at all to be honest. You have to remember, I come from desktop application worlds, where I helped design 3D software and painting products, both of which require immense interaction problem solving to make them work with keyboards, mice and styluses. The interaction needed to make such apps work elegantly is a hundred times more complicated than anything Google or Craigslist has done. I find the web world to be so far behind on so many fronts it's upsetting to a guy like me on how much was lost in 1995 when the web browser became popular. There is a huge overlap between the visual designer and the interaction designer, but they are different skill sets. The delta between what is not part of that overlap is also where I don't understand the issue. It's not that big a delta, and further, it's very straight-forward to learn the skills and craft of that delta. It just takes practice. Pure and simple. But the more people keep avoiding the delta, the more than entrench themselves into thinking there's some sort of wall where there isn't any. There is also overlap between interaction, front end code, and back in development. In the case of Google, the interaction isn't spectacular... it does not have to be. The visual presentation did not require a huge effort or great skill either. These elements can and often do compensate for one another. These are just excuses in my mind. The only reasons that Google products are the way they are is simple: They were built inside the crippled interaction models of the web browser, and they were built by engineers or "designers" with no aesthetic skills whatsoever. But then... it feels like we are heading into some sort of groundhog day re-run here. Your view on this is different than many of us on this list. The more robust software building tools become -- where we are all back at the same state of richness of interaction that was happening back in 1984 when the Mac first made popular the act of double-clicking an icon to open a file -- the more it will become clear where my view comes from, and that it's not really a stretch at all. It's just not that large a chasm to cross. It's more like crossing a stream, not a raging river. -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
squarely on the head, dude. You'd probably be good at Stocknagaln. (what's Stocknagaln? http://skisnowboardeurope.com/zellamsee/nightlife.html) .scot On Oct 15, 2008, at 6:39 AM, William Brall wrote: You can't create a great product without great visuals. Where those visuals come from does not need to be, and should not be, the interaction designer. The IxD can make use of graphic skill, just like they can make use of code skill and any other skill. However, like a house built by your grandfather, nothing will be perfect if you do it all yourself. We have different groups of professionals for a reason, that reason is that no one person can do everything at the great level. What will get by on the small scale is impossible on the large scale. Like Video Games. So the answer is a resounding YES! You don't need to have great visual design skills to be a great interaction designer. You merely need to be able to communicated your ideas effectively to the graphic designers, coders, and everyone else involved as to what needs to happen. They are professionals too, they know how to make things pretty or run fast. Will . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
I'd agree, if the designer is working alone. Teams of specialists with complementary skills and good creative direction can and do achieve create great design. Robert. Robert Reimann IxDA Seattle Associate Creative Director frog design Seattle, WA On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Andrei Herasimchuk < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To further clarify: You can't look at the tasks or process or whatever it > is that you think that you do in the field and ask the question. You have to > look at what you are building and then ask the question what is required to > design it. Design in all of its forms is not a theoretical exercise. At the > end of the day, something is built, constructed, made or created out of some > set of materials available based on the design direction created by one or > more people. To create "great" anything requires a deep understanding of all > the components required to actually build that "great" thing. > > So, I think you have to ask yourself: > > Can a [DESIGNER TYPE] create a great [PRODUCT TYPE] without having [SKILL > TYPE]? > > In the case of interface and software design, the question then reads: > > Can an interface designer create a great software or web application > without having visual deisgn skills? To which the answer is no. > > > -- > Andrei Herasimchuk > > Principal, Involution Studios > innovating the digital world > > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > c. +1 408 306 6422 > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 10:35:39 +0200, Rein wrote: >in my daily work as an interaction designer I mostly create wireframes and >support the visual designers in their creation of the visual design for >these wireframes. > >I notice though, that there is a strong dependency on how/if the interaction >will work and the (eventual) visual design. > >My question: can an interaction designer create great working interaction >without having visual design skills? My interpretation of your question is that you create black and white wireframes and layouts, which creatives than apply visuals to. If this is correct, and having read most of the responses so far, my comment is, ho for goodness sake, OF COURSE. An effective user interaction is a combination of the interaction design (within my understanding of what you mean by it), and the creative/visual design that is then applied to it. If either don't work, then the end result will be worse. Depending on the context, one or the other may be more important. So to say that one, or the other, is what makes or breaks, misses the point. *Nick Gassman - Usability and Standards Manager - http://ba.com * Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
examples of what? On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Andrei Herasimchuk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Oct 15, 2008, at 12:05 PM, mark schraad wrote: > >> Several have elluded to this, but the Ixd must have enough visual >> tools and chops to communicate the interaction. So in that regard, >> yes. Do they need to produce polished and finished for production >> mocks? No - no matter what Andrei says. > > Ok... let's see some example then? > > -- > Andrei Herasimchuk > > Principal, Involution Studios > innovating the digital world > > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > c. +1 408 306 6422 > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
I also think it really depends on the collborative environment you want to work in. I have had much more success working with great visual/3D folks than doing it on my own. They are deep in viz and I'm deep in IxD and the combination is rocket fuel when applied well. So I don't think this is an always situation at all. I have been giving some thought to this b/c I think the answer depends a lot of your perspective when you answer it. If I were to think about this from a career path/education perspective, I actually agree MORE with Andrei than not. What I mean is that I don't think that there is a real path for an entry level interaction designer (purist). IxD is best when it is work done in conjunction with form design (graphic or industrial). The next level of education is mastery in Interaction outside of any specific medium (or across any medium). This is like converting from a screen writer to a creative writer regardless of medium. The goal of the master grad is to be able to direct, not to build directly and work with great form-giving talent while guiding the narrative & interactive aesthetics to the next level. The one thing I totally agree on with Andrei is that none of this is theory for theory sake. Theory w/o a grounding in practice is mental-masturbation. And practice w/o grounding in theory is just a waste of time and resources. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
On Oct 15, 2008, at 12:32 PM, mark schraad wrote: examples of what? Examples of "great working interaction without having visual design skills." -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
examples of what? On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Andrei Herasimchuk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Oct 15, 2008, at 12:05 PM, mark schraad wrote: > >> Several have elluded to this, but the Ixd must have enough visual >> tools and chops to communicate the interaction. So in that regard, >> yes. Do they need to produce polished and finished for production >> mocks? No - no matter what Andrei says. > > Ok... let's see some example then? > > -- > Andrei Herasimchuk > > Principal, Involution Studios > innovating the digital world > > e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > c. +1 408 306 6422 > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
On Oct 15, 2008, at 12:19 PM, Jens Meiert wrote: Can a [DESIGNER TYPE] create a great [PRODUCT TYPE] without having [SKILL TYPE]? It clearly depends, again... That was the point. 8^) -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
On Oct 15, 2008, at 12:05 PM, mark schraad wrote: Several have elluded to this, but the Ixd must have enough visual tools and chops to communicate the interaction. So in that regard, yes. Do they need to produce polished and finished for production mocks? No - no matter what Andrei says. Ok... let's see some example then? -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
> Can a [DESIGNER TYPE] create a great [PRODUCT TYPE] without having [SKILL > TYPE]? It clearly depends, again. Unless you'd narrow down at least "skill type". -- Jens Meiert http://meiert.com/en/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Several have elluded to this, but the Ixd must have enough visual tools and chops to communicate the interaction. So in that regard, yes. Do they need to produce polished and finished for production mocks? No - no matter what Andrei says. Mark On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 10:07 AM, R. Groot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Jens, > > thanks for reaction. > > Well maybe the word "great" can be dropped, I added it to make the question > more black&white. > > For the word "without": > > I mean to ask if it is possible/works well to just make wireframes (gray and > white blocks) to design and explain the interaction of a digital artifact > (website, application, etc). Leaving any visual design for a visual designer > to go wild on. > > Hope that clears the question. If not, ask me more :) > > Rein > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
To further clarify: You can't look at the tasks or process or whatever it is that you think that you do in the field and ask the question. You have to look at what you are building and then ask the question what is required to design it. Design in all of its forms is not a theoretical exercise. At the end of the day, something is built, constructed, made or created out of some set of materials available based on the design direction created by one or more people. To create "great" anything requires a deep understanding of all the components required to actually build that "great" thing. So, I think you have to ask yourself: Can a [DESIGNER TYPE] create a great [PRODUCT TYPE] without having [SKILL TYPE]? In the case of interface and software design, the question then reads: Can an interface designer create a great software or web application without having visual deisgn skills? To which the answer is no. -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
On Oct 15, 2008, at 1:35 AM, R. Groot wrote: My question: can an interaction designer create great working interaction without having visual design skills? No. No matter what anyone else says. -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Hi Jens, thanks for reaction. Well maybe the word "great" can be dropped, I added it to make the question more black&white. For the word "without": I mean to ask if it is possible/works well to just make wireframes (gray and white blocks) to design and explain the interaction of a digital artifact (website, application, etc). Leaving any visual design for a visual designer to go wild on. Hope that clears the question. If not, ask me more :) Rein Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
> My question: can an interaction designer create great working interaction > without having visual design skills? Define "great" and elaborate "without", please. ;) -- Jens Meiert http://meiert.com/en/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Cool point there, too. It seemed to fill a need, then become so common as to become the default. Every time I go to it (to reference a band I just heard or because someone friended me), I can all but see the words "DANCING BEAR" blinking across the screen. Scott On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 9:39 AM, Will Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To Dave's point: > "So yes, an interaction designer can create great interactions without great > visual design." > > But many compelling interactions require great creative to give them emotive > appeal - and as we have all read Norman's book - we know that emotive > attraction IS perceived usability. Great IxDs don't need to be great visual > designers - but they should team up with them and understand the power of > attraction. Gestural interface interaction on the iPhone is great - but the > GUI is sexy - it looks good and it feels good. > > I agree about MySpace - the visual design, to say the least and be kind - > sucks sewer water through a strychnine-laced straw. I agree with Dave that > the interaction design has been successful, but I think the IxD of MySpace > is just as fetid - autoplay music anyone? Success yes - good IxD - notably > horrid. > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 9:30 AM, David Malouf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Wow! what a great conversation. >> >> I need to totally agree and forgive me also disagree. >> For the types of artifacts (media) that is being discussed thus far >> visual design in many respects is the receptical for the interactions >> we are designing and thus the communication layer. Successful >> interactions need to be communicated and need to respond to >> communications and thus for the former to occur where relevant great >> visual can help an interaction design immensely. >> >> Ok, here is where I disagree. >> What about where vision is not in play? What about the interaction >> design of gestural audio systems? So yes, an interaction designer >> can create great interactions without great visual design. But that >> doesn't mean he can do so without great care towards crafts of form. >> >> >> Now the other disagreement is going back to the true spirit of the >> original point, but I want to ask in a question. Where does >> Craigslist, Google Maps and MySpace fall. >> Yup, none of these have GREAT visual design, but arguably all 3 had >> greatly successful interaction design, no? >> >> To me the greatest problem we have is that we actually do not have a >> well articulated method for actually determining what is GREAT IxD. >> There is no methods of "critique" in IxD that I have uncovered or >> seen based in a strong relationship to both foundation and design >> history which is are required for any design critique to be anything >> other than well "opinion" and "utilitarian". >> >> >> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> Posted from the new ixda.org >> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 >> >> >> >> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! >> To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe >> List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines >> List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help >> > > > > -- > ~ will > > "Where you innovate, how you innovate, > and what you innovate are design problems" > > - > Will Evans | User Experience Architect > tel: +1.617.281.1281 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] > aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 > twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill > - > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > -- "The future is unwritten." - Joe Strummer Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
"you merely need to be able to communicated your ideas effectively to the graphic designers, coders, and everyone else involved as to what needs to happen." Amen, brother. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 9:39 AM, William Brall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You can't create a great product without great visuals. Where those > visuals come from does not need to be, and should not be, the > interaction designer. The IxD can make use of graphic skill, just > like they can make use of code skill and any other skill. However, > like a house built by your grandfather, nothing will be perfect if > you do it all yourself. > > We have different groups of professionals for a reason, that reason > is that no one person can do everything at the great level. What will > get by on the small scale is impossible on the large scale. Like Video > Games. > > So the answer is a resounding YES! You don't need to have great > visual design skills to be a great interaction designer. You merely > need to be able to communicated your ideas effectively to the graphic > designers, coders, and everyone else involved as to what needs to > happen. They are professionals too, they know how to make things > pretty or run fast. > > > Will > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
To Dave's point: "So yes, an interaction designer can create great interactions without great visual design." But many compelling interactions require great creative to give them emotive appeal - and as we have all read Norman's book - we know that emotive attraction IS perceived usability. Great IxDs don't need to be great visual designers - but they should team up with them and understand the power of attraction. Gestural interface interaction on the iPhone is great - but the GUI is sexy - it looks good and it feels good. I agree about MySpace - the visual design, to say the least and be kind - sucks sewer water through a strychnine-laced straw. I agree with Dave that the interaction design has been successful, but I think the IxD of MySpace is just as fetid - autoplay music anyone? Success yes - good IxD - notably horrid. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 9:30 AM, David Malouf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Wow! what a great conversation. > > I need to totally agree and forgive me also disagree. > For the types of artifacts (media) that is being discussed thus far > visual design in many respects is the receptical for the interactions > we are designing and thus the communication layer. Successful > interactions need to be communicated and need to respond to > communications and thus for the former to occur where relevant great > visual can help an interaction design immensely. > > Ok, here is where I disagree. > What about where vision is not in play? What about the interaction > design of gestural audio systems? So yes, an interaction designer > can create great interactions without great visual design. But that > doesn't mean he can do so without great care towards crafts of form. > > > Now the other disagreement is going back to the true spirit of the > original point, but I want to ask in a question. Where does > Craigslist, Google Maps and MySpace fall. > Yup, none of these have GREAT visual design, but arguably all 3 had > greatly successful interaction design, no? > > To me the greatest problem we have is that we actually do not have a > well articulated method for actually determining what is GREAT IxD. > There is no methods of "critique" in IxD that I have uncovered or > seen based in a strong relationship to both foundation and design > history which is are required for any design critique to be anything > other than well "opinion" and "utilitarian". > > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > Posted from the new ixda.org > http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > -- ~ will "Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems" - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.1281 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
You can't create a great product without great visuals. Where those visuals come from does not need to be, and should not be, the interaction designer. The IxD can make use of graphic skill, just like they can make use of code skill and any other skill. However, like a house built by your grandfather, nothing will be perfect if you do it all yourself. We have different groups of professionals for a reason, that reason is that no one person can do everything at the great level. What will get by on the small scale is impossible on the large scale. Like Video Games. So the answer is a resounding YES! You don't need to have great visual design skills to be a great interaction designer. You merely need to be able to communicated your ideas effectively to the graphic designers, coders, and everyone else involved as to what needs to happen. They are professionals too, they know how to make things pretty or run fast. Will . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Wow! what a great conversation. I need to totally agree and forgive me also disagree. For the types of artifacts (media) that is being discussed thus far visual design in many respects is the receptical for the interactions we are designing and thus the communication layer. Successful interactions need to be communicated and need to respond to communications and thus for the former to occur where relevant great visual can help an interaction design immensely. Ok, here is where I disagree. What about where vision is not in play? What about the interaction design of gestural audio systems? So yes, an interaction designer can create great interactions without great visual design. But that doesn't mean he can do so without great care towards crafts of form. Now the other disagreement is going back to the true spirit of the original point, but I want to ask in a question. Where does Craigslist, Google Maps and MySpace fall. Yup, none of these have GREAT visual design, but arguably all 3 had greatly successful interaction design, no? To me the greatest problem we have is that we actually do not have a well articulated method for actually determining what is GREAT IxD. There is no methods of "critique" in IxD that I have uncovered or seen based in a strong relationship to both foundation and design history which is are required for any design critique to be anything other than well "opinion" and "utilitarian". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=34316 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Hi Rein, In the specific case you described, having a visual design skill would help a bit. As a designer (with industrial and graphic design background), I've always felt much more confortable when I used to do information architecture and wireframes for websites/software interface projects. But I have some friends doing the same stuff who have no former visual design education/skills, and they did a fine job as well. So, I would say it would be a "nice to have" skill, but not needed. What is needed is a good visual designer working along with you. And I would like to broaden the discussion. To me Interaction Design is neither (only) about visual, nor it is about creating wireframes. If you take a look on what is being done in most Interaction Design schools, you will notice that the "screen based" applications belongs to the past. As interaction designers, we have to think about the future, where computers are embedded to ordinary objects. Some interfaces are more in "industrial design" rather than in "visual design" basis. I would suggest you to take a look at: Design Interactions at Royal College of Art - http://www.interaction.rca.ac.uk/ Interaction Design at Carnegie Mellon University - http://design.cmu.edu/show_program.php?s=2&t=3 Banff New Media Institute - http://www.banffcentre.ca/bnmi/about/ Interaction Design Centre in Middlesex University - http://www.cs.mdx.ac.uk/research/idc/ Copenhagen Institute of Interaction Design - http://ciid.dk/ Media Lab at University of Art and Design Helsinki - http://mlab.taik.fi/ M.I.T. Media Lab: http://www.media.mit.edu/research/ And also: Design for the Elastic Mind, at MoMA - http://www.moma.org/exhibitions/2008/elasticmind/ Ambient Intelligence, ubiquitous computing, pervasive computing, augmented reality...these things are changing the scope of our work, and we better have a broader vision of what interaction design is all about, in order to be able to create good interaction! Taking these examples, I would change your question to: Can an interaction designer creat great working interaction without having computer science skills? Most of this works and Labs I've listed above demand a strong prototyping practice, and a basic understanding on computational stuff. Visual design skill is nice to have. What about computer science skills? all the best -- prof. mauro pinheiro universidade federal do espírito santo centro de artes depto. de desenho industrial http://www.feiramoderna.net On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 6:35 AM, R. Groot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, > > in my daily work as an interaction designer I mostly create wireframes and > support the visual designers in their creation of the visual design for > these wireframes. > > I notice though, that there is a strong dependency on how/if the interaction > will work and the (eventual) visual design. > > My question: can an interaction designer create great working interaction > without having visual design skills? > > Kind regards, > Rein Groot > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Very well put, Jonas! On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Jonas Löwgren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > I notice though, that there is a strong dependency on how/if the >> interaction >> will work and the (eventual) visual design. >> >> My question: can an interaction designer create great working interaction >> without having visual design skills? >> > My take is this: as a designer, you should really know a lot about communicating. Graphics are a medium for communication, so it would probably help to know the basic principles - so that you know if you are communicating what you mean to. If you don't, you should hope that your graphic designer is really a designer and not an artist disguised as a designer. What I feel I'm missing sometimes in graphic design is the ability to make those graphics really compelling (not just clear), and that's where I feel I would like to cooperate with a graphic designer with some artistic talent. Sebi Rein, > > I think the point is that users don't normally distinguish between > interaction and visuals. To them, the experience of using the product > unfolds over time, synthesizing what it looks like and how it behaves with a > range of other elements (such as what it says, what it means and how they > can perform socially with it). > > The development side, however, tends to separate interaction from visuals. > There are several historical reasons for this but I think it is > fundamentally problematic -- if our focus is on the use experience. > > The subject line of your post states your question as: "Can an interaction > designer create (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?" > > I would say that an interaction designer can create interaction without > great visual design skills. It happens every day. > > It is more doubtful whether an interaction designer can create great > interaction without visual design skills. > > Not many of us are blessed with expert skills in multiple fields, of > course. My conclusion is that in order to create great interaction, great > skills are needed in interaction structuring and info architecture, visual > design, and a range of other fields. But it is hardly realistic to expect > that from a single person. Multidisciplinary teams seems to be the way to > go. > > Jonas Löwgren > > > > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help > -- Sergiu Sebastian Tauciuc http://www.sergiutauciuc.ro/en/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
I notice though, that there is a strong dependency on how/if the interaction will work and the (eventual) visual design. My question: can an interaction designer create great working interaction without having visual design skills? Rein, I think the point is that users don't normally distinguish between interaction and visuals. To them, the experience of using the product unfolds over time, synthesizing what it looks like and how it behaves with a range of other elements (such as what it says, what it means and how they can perform socially with it). The development side, however, tends to separate interaction from visuals. There are several historical reasons for this but I think it is fundamentally problematic -- if our focus is on the use experience. The subject line of your post states your question as: "Can an interaction designer create (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?" I would say that an interaction designer can create interaction without great visual design skills. It happens every day. It is more doubtful whether an interaction designer can create great interaction without visual design skills. Not many of us are blessed with expert skills in multiple fields, of course. My conclusion is that in order to create great interaction, great skills are needed in interaction structuring and info architecture, visual design, and a range of other fields. But it is hardly realistic to expect that from a single person. Multidisciplinary teams seems to be the way to go. Jonas Löwgren Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Can an interaction designer creat (great) interaction without (great) visual design skills?
Hi all, in my daily work as an interaction designer I mostly create wireframes and support the visual designers in their creation of the visual design for these wireframes. I notice though, that there is a strong dependency on how/if the interaction will work and the (eventual) visual design. My question: can an interaction designer create great working interaction without having visual design skills? Kind regards, Rein Groot Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
