[e-gold-list] Re: [e-gold-tech] spend using confirm.asp
sidd, a bit of a guess, but check to see if the form submit you're doing is a GET instead of a POST...if so try POST. jay w. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sidd wrote: Hi All, When I use the confirm.asp URL and fill in the optional "memo" field, I find that all white space is removed. Thus "Thanks for dinner" submitted in the form field returns "Thanksfordinner" when I view the payment history on the e-gold site. Has anyone else noticed this? Can this be fixed? --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] If you own the password and login....
Business opportunity and major design challenge: Philadelphia Inquirer: Locked out. Active Web users have to manage about 15 passwords for daily use, according to Forrester Research Inc., an Internet research firm. By some estimates, half of all service calls to Web businesses are from people asking some version of the question, What's my user name and password? http://inq.philly.com/content/inquirer/2000/12/28/tech_life/PASSWORD28.htm from http://www.tomalak.org/todayslinks/newsletter.html --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Indentity Theft vs. Anonymous services
General reputation trackers/sellers are going to have a hard time coming up with a method that works for most needs. "Any week now" there will be a general one available. Most will be willing to participate at least a little. The bad news is you need a funded e-gold account (although I just got an idea to minimize this :), the good news is an exchange provider (or anyone) can have a field on their website that says: To help us serve you faster and cheaper, enter your reputation service here: Or send your reputation to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have designed a flexible and open format so that anyone can send and receive a digitally signed reputation (to some degree or another - its version 1). Not perfect of course, but one can convieniently get a good feel about a person in a short time AND (maybe) have a public way to say the individual was a bum while alerting others to this. Will generating this reputation be a lot of work? No. It is a byproduct of a normal activity we all do. ps. I really respect the way SR has handled the recent questions. I am sure if we had the option of privacy friendly services we all would use them. Instead we need to do a lot of research or create them along with the business we are creating too. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Indentity Theft vs. Anonymous services
At 6:06 AM -0800 12/30/00, Jeff Fitzmyers wrote: General reputation trackers/sellers are going to have a hard time coming up with a method that works for most needs. "Any week now" there will be a general one available. Most will be willing to participate at least a little. The bad news is you need a funded e-gold account (although I just got an idea to minimize this :), the good news is an exchange provider (or anyone) can have a field on their website that says: Disclaimer: I'm somewhat-peripherally involved in Jeff's project, and I'm a big fan of it also. I'm speaking (as usual) only for myself here. ... Will generating this reputation be a lot of work? No. It is a byproduct of a normal activity we all do. Actually, one business (MetalSavings) appears to have operated by the owner's individual opinion of (among other things) postings to this list. Once, long ago, on the basis of my writings, a very interesting person snailed me a few thousand dollars worth of really cool stuff.* I think that I'd trust a number of list members with gold, some of whom I've never seen/met. I suspect others feel the same way. ps. I really respect the way SR has handled the recent questions. I am sure if we had the option of privacy friendly services we all would use them. Instead we need to do a lot of research or create them along with the business we are creating too. I think/hope that a variety of services may spring up. Some may be cheaper, for example, in exchange for giving up your SSN or letting others email you once in a while. I personally don't like the use of SSNs for identification, either, but in spite of the law itself, they are used primarily for that, and a service that's large and available and using them now is likely to be less expensive than a new, possibly- ideal-for-privacy-fans, service. Sellers of privacy on the 'net have, in the past, seen disappointing results (see ZKS) compared to expectations, and therefore buyers of privacy should probably remember the TANSTAAFL principle. JMR * What was shipped to me were Comsec 3DES (now Starium.com) telephone encryption devices. I've been testing it out, and they work ok (but not perfectly). Needless to say, someday soon I hope these neat little devices will be available for e-gold from someone. IMNSHO widespread usage of these devices could solve a lot of the privacy problems mentioned by others recently here. I'm still not sure on the price for these, but they won't be $99 like I'd hoped, for the near term. I plan to buy the device I'm testing, if they let me. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Indentity Theft vs. Anonymous services
He had just been scammed by five individuals utilizing PayPal. So much for trusting those you do not know If the light was turned-on, you'd probably find that those 5 individuals sending payments through PayPal are, in fact, the same person. Craig --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Indentity Theft vs. Anonymous services
"Any week now" there will be a general one available. Most will be willing to participate at least a little. The bad news is you need a funded e-gold account (although I just got an idea to minimize this :), I have no problem with spending metal. For this to work in the long run, a profit has to be made. I'm not worried about getting my money's worth. I meant as in lowering barriers for initial use. It's no fun to go to a site and have to do a bunch of stuff before you can participate. I am thinking of giving a small local loan of ~ 50-100 mg so people can participate immediately. (If this is confusing, just wait a week :) BTW, exchange providers can easily generate a reputation too. Participation should be very low cost and hopefully really fun too. I don't believe it can to be perfect in the beginning. It's probably impossible. It can be refined/improved/changed as feedback comes in. Great going, Jeff. Thanks! I am so excited to get this project out the door. Although very interesting to design, it has been quite a challenge. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: SR Identity
I think what we are all getting at is that no one cares who you are if you pay, provide a service, or ship product on time. If you break a 'contract' we want a way to get you to honor the contract, or refund us, or failing that lower your reputation to warn your customers (maybe a little retribution too). Then we need an arbitration mechanism so if someone is unjustly accused they can clear their name. The bounds of transactions have grown past historical limits of nations and so we can make the limits bigger - get a world government :( or replace historical limits with something that is flexible enough to allow sometimes severe cultural differences to get along well enough. jeff --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: SR Identity
I think what we are all getting at is that no one cares who you are if you pay, provide a service, or ship product on time. If you break a 'contract' we want a way to get you to honor the contract, or refund us, or failing that lower your reputation to warn your customers (maybe a little retribution too). Then we need an arbitration mechanism so if someone is unjustly accused they can clear their name. The bounds of transactions have grown past historical limits of nations and so we can make the limits bigger - get a world government :( or replace historical limits with something that is flexible enough to allow sometimes severe cultural differences to get along well enough. Well said and good thinking. This is a productive direction. CCS --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] The offer still stands (sincerely!)
Craig, Actually, thank you for your reply. I hope I did not appear "harsh" or "conceited" as I do appreciate your offering suggestions. Sometimes I reply a "little to quickly" and my replies are often mistaken for criticisms or insult. To the contrary, I just enjoy engaging in a good debate! You are sooo right about things not working in their current state. I personally have been hit for close to $18 K in bad checks (not counting the ones I never even bothered to deposit) this MONTH alone. These were from people in the US, all the details panned out (banks verified funds available, addresses, so on) but they turned out to be counterfeits of legitimates. My point being for every method we come up with to verify a payment or endorser, scammers then sidestep and move on. It is currently impossible to know all of our endorsers. We must rely on "fresh blood" coming into the system to grow the Gold Economy. If you think about it, I believe there are currently less than 100,000 funded active e-gold accounts. That is a drop in the bucket compared to the global economy with fiat currency, yes? Now, the trick is to convert the rest of "old economy" (fiat users) into converting into the Gold Economy (bullion users). To do so, we must accept their currency (checks, money orders, credit cards, etc.) to issue them gold currency. Since no one has a method to verify these masses in a *cost effective* manner, we have to engage in a huge amount of trust/risk. Identification verification scares off a certain amount of scammers. Therefore, less risk. Less risk then equals improved efficiency in converting to the Gold Economy. Improved efficiency then means a faster growing Gold Economy with a better *trust model* as the Gold Economy payments are non-reputable.You then do not need to know your endorser as there payments are ALWAYS good or they cannot pay. We must find a way to build that trust at the start instead of waiting until the end. Does that make sense? And yes, your right, it does not appear anyone is working on solving that at the moment. I personally am too busy with the currency conversion. Therefore, I rely on ID verification (again, mostly just to scare off the undesirables) until something else comes along. Let me say that I appreciate your sarcasm and the "put up or shut up" offer. And it is likely deserved; especially from the point of view of someone "in the trenches". Again, I did not mean to be so blunt, but yes, I am in the trenches and my enemies (hackers, thieves, counterfeiters, etc.) are a massive force to fight in such a battle. It is not unlike WW II. The Allies tried to rely on the "gentleman's war" tactics: bullets, tanks, bombs, grenades and sheer numbers. Axis powers used mustard gas, ethnogenocide, starvation. We Market Makers (I like to think) try to uphold certain principals and values while still engaging in this war. Our opposing forces just meet those tactics with something more brutal at every turn. It seems something of an "atom bomb" type influence will be needed to rid us of these types (scammers, thieves, counterfeiters) once and for all. Problem with that? Symbolically the atom bomb was the opening of the Cold War. See where I am going with this? Technology that is so powerful usually becomes destructive by the sheer nature of the fear it then instills in the side without the technology which then races to create something of equal or more strength. If we create a method to verify all endorsers *cost effectively* and quickly, that means we can id someone, anyone, anywhere, rather quickly. Imagine the fear such technology would spread. Look at all the postings on this list ALONE from people who fear giving out their SS #. Such technology would ultimately lead someone to create opposing technology for those who DO NOT want to be able to be identified so easily. I guess what is needed is the best of both worlds. A method to verify someone is "trustworthy" when making payment without needing to know *who they are* in a sense. The e-gold system does that partially. A payment can only be made if it is backed by the appropriate gold stores. However, e-gold is now rampant with thieves, counterfeiters, and hackers who have obtained their gold stores illegally. The trust is then gone. Sure the payment is "good" at the moment, but it ultimately cost someone (Market Makers, GSR, fellow e-gold users) a great deal because the gold was stolen from them. Back to square one, yes? Please consider my offer in your spare time. I am always looking for a better, faster, cheaper way to work. If you have some thoughts, please share. If they work, I will share the returns with you. Together we can make this a better system I am confident of that. Have a great New Years, Craig, and I wish you health and fortune in the very near future! With Great Respect, Eric - Original Message - From: Craig
[e-gold-list] Re: The offer still stands (sincerely!)
"Eric Gaither, Gaithman's E-Gold Exchange" wrote: You are sooo right about things not working in their current state. I personally have been hit for close to $18 K in bad checks (not counting the ones I never even bothered to deposit) this MONTH alone. These were from people in the US, all the details panned out (banks verified funds available, addresses, so on) but they turned out to be counterfeits of legitimates. Now, the trick is to convert the rest of "old economy" (fiat users) into converting into the Gold Economy (bullion users). To do so, we must accept their currency (checks, money orders, credit cards, etc.) to issue them gold currency. If we create a method to verify all endorsers *cost effectively* and quickly, that means we can id someone, anyone, anywhere, rather quickly. Imagine the fear such technology would spread. Look at all the postings on this list ALONE from people who fear giving out their SS #. Such technology would ultimately lead someone to create opposing technology for those who DO NOT want to be able to be identified so easily. I guess what is needed is the best of both worlds. A method to verify someone is "trustworthy" when making payment without needing to know *who they are* in a sense. I am always looking for a better, faster, cheaper way to work. If you have some thoughts, please share. If they work, I will share the returns with you. Hi Eric, This discussion is very positive bringing out a lot of hithertofore unknown details at least to me. Seems the market makers, by accepting checks and credit cards, are open to fraud and scammers by the very nature of checks and credit cards. Why accept them at all? I admit this allows for quicker growth of the number of gold accounts and convenience for customers but such a practice opens up to "low life" types. Why not accept only bank wire and Western Union transfers? These are all paid for before remitting so we are back to an asset based and verified currency. This one tactic would eliminate a broad array of risk. I can transfer funds from my bank to any other bank with a single phone call. That's not too inconvenient for me to do. I realize some would like to eliminate banks and the FED involvement as soon as possible. I agree. But until there is a viable and global alternative we must use what we have at hand. In fact the sales from my internet online catalog are wired directly to my bank from another bank. Optionally I could have these wired directly to an e-gold based debit card account if such a thing were properly available and affordable. -- Regards, Dale Pond Delta Spectrum Research http://www.SVPvril.com Sympathetic Vibratory Physics Sacred Science - Sacred Life SVP Discussion Forum: http://www.egroups.com/list/svpvril/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: Standard Reserve
Could not agree with you more. Does anyone think that some sort of escrow sytem similar to ebay might help solve some of the problem with the dishonest buyers and sellers on the egold system? Boyd Pate --Original Message-- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: December 30, 2000 4:40:14 PM GMT Subject: [e-gold-list] Standard Reserve Anyone else sick to death of Standard Reserve's posts here? Andthree cheers for Destiny Worldwide's philosophy! --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Play for fun or for Real, Win Gold http://www.thegoldcasino.com/win.cgi?3202416 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Indentity Theft vs. Anonymous services
At 11:21 AM 12/30/2000 -0600, Eric Gaither, Gaithman's E-Gold Exchange wrote: Jeff, . I really respect the way SR has handled the recent questions. I am sure if we had the option of privacy friendly services we all would use them. Instead we need to do a lot of research or create them along with the business we are creating too. I could not agree more! Does anyone from E-gold or GSR ever post on these *e-gold* discussion lists? Maybe they are afraid of getting beaten up eh? ;-) Actually, while many have slammed Standard Reserve, I personally want to thank everyone for their opinions. It is the only way we will improve. One of our staff was taken aback with one of the comments, and thought we should discuss the issue privately. I disagree wholeheartedly. Your comments, both pro and con are invaluable to us. Right now we are investigating using other means to track identities rather than SS#. As I stated before, I am a list junkie, and really understand the value. Thanks again George __ George Matyjewicz, Chief Executive Officer Standard Reserve Corp. -- Atlanta, GA Acct# 120018 Tel: 770-300-3070 Ext 2818 World Wide Currency for the World Wide Web http://www.standardreserve.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: The offer still stands (sincerely!)
--Original Message-- From: Dale Pond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: December 30, 2000 8:07:58 PM GMT Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Hi Eric, This discussion is very positive bringing out a lot of hithertofore unknown details at least to me. Seems the market makers, by accepting checks and credit cards, are open to fraud and scammers by the very nature of checks and credit cards. Why accept them at all? I admit this allows for quicker growth of the number of gold accounts and convenience for customers but such a practice opens up to "low life" types. Why not accept only bank wire and Western Union transfers? These are all paid for before remitting so we are back to an asset based and verified currency. Excellent idea This one tactic would eliminate a broad array of risk. I realize some would like to eliminate banks and the FED involvement as soon as possible. I agree. The ones who don't want to involve banks, just use the WU option Boyd Pate Play for fun or for Real, Win Gold http://www.thegoldcasino.com/win.cgi?3202416 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: The offer still stands (sincerely!)
--Original Message-- From: Dale Pond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: December 30, 2000 8:07:58 PM GMT Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Hi Eric, This discussion is very positive bringing out a lot of hithertofore unknown details at least to me. Seems the market makers, by accepting checks and credit cards, are open to fraud and scammers by the very nature of checks and credit cards. Why accept them at all? I admit this allows for quicker growth of the number of gold accounts and convenience for customers but such a practice opens up to "low life" types. Why not accept only bank wire and Western Union transfers? These are all paid for before remitting so we are back to an asset based and verified currency. Excellent idea This one tactic would eliminate a broad array of risk. I realize some would like to eliminate banks and the FED involvement as soon as possible. I agree. The ones who don't want to involve banks, just use the WU option Boyd Pate Play for fun or for Real, Win Gold http://www.thegoldcasino.com/win.cgi?3202416 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: The offer still stands (sincerely!)
Dale, Yes, you are correct about this (more than you probably know!): Seems the market makers, by accepting checks and credit cards, are open to fraud and scammers by the very nature of checks and credit cards. Why accept them at all? I admit this allows for quicker growth of the number of gold accounts and convenience for customers but such a practice opens up to "low life" types. However, as the "portal" from the *Old Economy* to the Gold Economy, Market Makers have to accept the traditional methods of payment to operate. (Some refer to us as a "currency conversion service") Believe it or not, MANY people out there still do not maintain a regular checking or savings account due to their financial status or educational back ground. Some simply still fear banks and financial institutions as a result of the American Depression when banks collapsed along with their investors monies. Why not accept only bank wire and Western Union transfers? We are always streamlining our payment options. Did you know that money orders and postal orders can be counterfeited? Checks can be reversed up to 30 days (in some cases) later? Credit cards can be "charged back" months down the road? Bank wires ca be reversed for up to 24 hours? Even cold hard cash can be counterfeited. (And W/U is SOOO expensive it is not cost effective, not to mention they do not like people using it for e-gold transactions!) So, as we know it, there is no *safe* payment method for the Old Economy payments yet. Again, that is the brilliance of e-gold. But, converting to e-gold safely is the hard part. Optionally I could have these wired directly to an e-gold based debit card account if such a thing were properly available and affordable. We are all waiting with baited breath for this to be reality. If you catch wind of it happening, please let me know! Have a great new year's celebration! Eric - Original Message - From: Dale Pond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 2:07 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: The offer still stands (sincerely!) "Eric Gaither, Gaithman's E-Gold Exchange" wrote: You are sooo right about things not working in their current state. I personally have been hit for close to $18 K in bad checks (not counting the ones I never even bothered to deposit) this MONTH alone. These were from people in the US, all the details panned out (banks verified funds available, addresses, so on) but they turned out to be counterfeits of legitimates. Now, the trick is to convert the rest of "old economy" (fiat users) into converting into the Gold Economy (bullion users). To do so, we must accept their currency (checks, money orders, credit cards, etc.) to issue them gold currency. If we create a method to verify all endorsers *cost effectively* and quickly, that means we can id someone, anyone, anywhere, rather quickly. Imagine the fear such technology would spread. Look at all the postings on this list ALONE from people who fear giving out their SS #. Such technology would ultimately lead someone to create opposing technology for those who DO NOT want to be able to be identified so easily. I guess what is needed is the best of both worlds. A method to verify someone is "trustworthy" when making payment without needing to know *who they are* in a sense. I am always looking for a better, faster, cheaper way to work. If you have some thoughts, please share. If they work, I will share the returns with you. Hi Eric, This discussion is very positive bringing out a lot of hithertofore unknown details at least to me. Seems the market makers, by accepting checks and credit cards, are open to fraud and scammers by the very nature of checks and credit cards. Why accept them at all? I admit this allows for quicker growth of the number of gold accounts and convenience for customers but such a practice opens up to "low life" types. Why not accept only bank wire and Western Union transfers? These are all paid for before remitting so we are back to an asset based and verified currency. This one tactic would eliminate a broad array of risk. I can transfer funds from my bank to any other bank with a single phone call. That's not too inconvenient for me to do. I realize some would like to eliminate banks and the FED involvement as soon as possible. I agree. But until there is a viable and global alternative we must use what we have at hand. In fact the sales from my internet online catalog are wired directly to my bank from another bank. Optionally I could have these wired directly to an e-gold based debit card account if such a thing were properly available and affordable. -- Regards, Dale Pond Delta Spectrum Research http://www.SVPvril.com Sympathetic Vibratory Physics Sacred Science - Sacred Life SVP Discussion Forum:
[e-gold-list] Re: The offer still stands (sincerely!)
Eric, Thank you for your comments. I hope I did not appear "harsh" or "conceited" as I do appreciate your offering suggestions. No, I wasn't bothered a bit. Sometimes I reply a "little to quickly" and my replies are often mistaken for criticisms or insult. Same here. I was worried about the same thing. You are sooo right about things not working in their current state. I personally have been hit for close to $18 K in bad checks (not counting the ones I never even bothered to deposit) this MONTH alone. Ouchhh!!! These were from people in the US, all the details panned out (banks verified funds available, addresses, so on) but they turned out to be counterfeits of legitimates. So much for the effectiveness of the statist approach. My point being for every method we come up with to verify a payment or endorser, scammers then sidestep and move on. I can't even imagine what what they must be doing! But clearly you are not determining what you really need to know. You are trying to determine something else and use it as a proxy for what you really need. Determined and resourceful people will probably always be able to exploit the fact that there is a difference between the proxy and the reality. It is currently impossible to know all of our endorsers. Don't dismiss the idea so fast! You don't need to know them all personally. I'm sure that you have heard the old saw that you can make contact with anyone in the world thru 3 or 4 intermediary acquanitances. The point is that it only takes a few levels of endorsement to connect you with anyone on earth. That sounds practical to me. Another poster on the board has suggested he has something imminent in this regard. Perhaps he will solve your problem. For a more specifc proposal of my own see the end for a more concretes. We must rely on "fresh blood" coming into the system to grow the Gold Economy. I don't think that is true either. What it needs is not a continual flow of new entrants but for present e-gold users to engage in genuine productive activity and trade using gold. Then the gold economy will be self-sustaining even if small and will have a sound basis on which to base healthy growth. If you think about it, I believe there are currently less than 100,000 funded active e-gold accounts. Closer to 50,000. That is a drop in the bucket compared to the global economy with fiat currency, yes? Now, the trick is to convert the rest of "old economy" (fiat users) into converting into the Gold Economy (bullion users). It is not so simple or direct. There has to be genuine productive activity first. I think you have things a bit backward. To do so, we must accept their currency (checks, money orders, credit cards, etc.) to issue them gold currency. Since no one has a method to verify these masses in a *cost effective* manner, we have to engage in a huge amount of trust/risk. I think you are too eager and that is making you a ripe target. And as long as they can rip you off for $18K a month and you keep doing it you will keep attracting the crooks! I understand and sympathize with all your points about using ID verification as a makeshift, however. If we create a method to verify all endorsers *cost effectively* and quickly, that means we can id someone, anyone, anywhere, rather quickly. Imagine the fear such technology would spread. You are still thinking like a statist. And, yes, it is scary! I guess what is needed is the best of both worlds. A method to verify someone is "trustworthy" when making payment without needing to know *who they are* in a sense. Exactly. However, e-gold is now rampant with thieves, counterfeiters, and hackers who have obtained their gold stores illegally. The trust is then gone. Sure the payment is "good" at the moment, but it ultimately cost someone (Market Makers, GSR, fellow e-gold users) a great deal because the gold was stolen from them. That is one of my great concerns and a problem that needs as solution if the gold economy is ever to amount to anything or freedom is to become practical again. Thinking about the problem the following occured to me. Zimmerman build into PGP an idea for a "web of trust" which he clearly set great store on. It always seemed like a good idea to me but I have never personally found a real need for it in key management. However, as a result of Zimmerman's original design there is an existing global infrastructure of key-servers that supports it. It implements a hierarchical "web of trust" based on proximity of trusted endorsers. Suppose you ask your most trusted customers to generate and send a public key to the key-servers. You can sign and endorse their keys. And other people, including your trusted customers, can sign and endorse the keys of people they know and trust. Then you can adopt as a criterion for doing business with someone that they demonstrate
[e-gold-list] Re: SR Identity
E-Gold needs to identify account owners too. I don't know if they plan to do this, but I would like to see some sort of 'low balance limit' on accounts whose owners cannot be identified with certainty. That would be the END of e-gold. Why? Craig Because the value of e-gold derives from its utility as a means that enables individuals to trade freely in defiance of the state. It would cease to be useful for this purpose if submission to the state, which is what identification amounts to, is required as a condition of using the system. CCS --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold / SR ??
I'm OK with "DEBT instruments" denominated in Gold as long as its clear they are NOT money. IMO, it was the fraudulent issue of more gold certificates than gold, which started the corruption of modern currencies. Instead of convicting the fraudsters, governments licensed them, so banks have been pretending to lend from reserves, when they are actually creating 'fiduciary media' for centuries, and sharing some of them with governments. 'Fractional reserves' is the fancy name used to disguise this scam. If SR does this without a licence, we can expect governments to get indignant and worse! So what is it to be for SR? Will it maintain or confuse the distinction between certificates and 'fiduciary media'? Jim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Elwyn Jenkins Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 4:09 PM To: e-gold Discussion Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: e-gold / SR ?? Sidd So the question is: Is there a possibility that in the future Standard Reserve currency will at least in part be backed by DEBT instruments or investments other than e-gold? YES. But always instruments denominated in Gold. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: The offer still stands (sincerely!)
"Eric Gaither, Gaithman's E-Gold Exchange" wrote: Why not accept only bank wire and Western Union transfers? We are always streamlining our payment options. Did you know that money orders and postal orders can be counterfeited? I've heard of this. Characteristic of "creatable" paper-type money. Checks can be reversed up to 30 days (in some cases) later? Did not know checks can be reversed. Credit cards can be "charged back" months down the road? This is known and an awful capability especially if dealing in large valued items sold at a distance. Credit cards and the system that supports them are scary. In fact all systems of credit should be banned from the face of the earth as public enemy #1: Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:26:09 -0600 From: Dan Meador [EMAIL PROTECTED] One of my list subscribers forwarded the URL for Federal Reserve tabulation of American debt from 1959 through October 2000. Check it out at http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/hist/h6hist1.txt In January 1959, the nation had what I presume to be a cumulative private debt of $643.7 billion. By January 2000, the cumulative debt was $17,454.7 billion, with the October 2000 figure clocking in at $18,115.0 billion, or a 10-month increase of $660.3 billion. In other words, in the first 10 months of Y2k, American debt increased in excess of the nation's cumulative private debt through the first 170 years following implementation of the Constitution. Even at the nominal rate of 5%, the interest payment on existing debt as of October would be $905 billion in the next year. That figures in the neighborhood of 15% of GDP if we have a good year. If the economy heads south, as increasing numbers believe it will, the liquidation grist mill will take over. It isn't a comforting prospect. On a per-capita basis, the cumulative debt is about $72,460. If you don't have your fair share, you're obviously doing something wrong. Dan Meador Bank wires ca be reversed for up to 24 hours? Didn't know this one either. Treacherous ground you fellows are walking on Even cold hard cash can be counterfeited. Yep. Try counterfeiting gold. (And W/U is SOOO expensive it is not cost effective, not to mention they do not like people using it for e-gold transactions!) I've had some strange experiences with WU. I think they were created and operate SOLELY to remove cash from circulation. You can put cash into WU as cash but you get back a check they refuse to cash - gotta run it back through the system. Personally I am very hesitant to support WU. Optionally I could have these wired directly to an e-gold based debit card account if such a thing were properly available and affordable. We are all waiting with baited breath for this to be reality. If you catch wind of it happening, please let me know! You and everyone else. -- Regards, Dale Pond Delta Spectrum Research http://www.SVPvril.com Sympathetic Vibratory Physics Sacred Science - Sacred Life SVP Discussion Forum: http://www.egroups.com/list/svpvril/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: SR Identity
E-Gold needs to identify account owners too. I don't know if they plan to do this, but I would like to see some sort of 'low balance limit' on accounts whose owners cannot be identified with certainty. That would be the END of e-gold. Why? Because the value of e-gold derives from its utility as a means that enables individuals to trade freely in defiance of the state. It would cease to be useful for this purpose if submission to the state, which is what identification amounts to, is required as a condition of using the system. CCS Gad! I don't see it that way at all. The purpose of e-gold is to create an international internet currency, NOT to defy the state. There are so many good things that can be done with a digital, gold-backed, currency that there should be no NEED or DESIRE to defy the state. I am somewhat appalled by your comments. Don't take that personally. I am just quite surprised that you want to trade in 'defiance' of the state. If e-gold becomes a token for that sort of activity, I believe that the 'state' will shut them down. Sincerely, Craig Haynie --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: The offer still stands (sincerely!)
Hmmm,, some more bad news,,, to a certain extent,, even Gold can be counterfeited,, could you tell the difference between a gold plated bar and a solid gold bar with just a cursory visual inspection? Tis all a slippery slope if one's not careful. It is difficult, though, to counterfeit gold and maintain the precise weight of a gold coin or a gold bar. Additionally, a coin would have to be minted. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold
markab23 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am getting a HTTP1 Server busy with the e-gold site . Also the e-biz sites have been shut down I notice. I wonder if they are related? What's e-biz? Another one of those ponzi scams? If so, then in no way will e-gold be related to it. Edwin --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold
Eric Wrote: Did you ever see the public apology Reid Jackson posted on the e-biz site? Oops! Eric, that public apology was addressed to the e-gold list, and was merely COPIED by the operators of e-biz to their site. The apology did not in ANY way refer to e-biz at all, it was a GENERAL APOLOGY to ALL e-gold users... Amazing how easy it is to lead people astray... Regards, Sidd. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: SR Identity
Fact is, any method of payment to an MM (besides cash in hand) leaves a trail back to the payer. Even an "anonymous" reputation system that allowed me to accept a CC or cheque from someone without knowing his identity, would result in the banking transactions revealing his identity to me, so there would be really no point in using the "anonymous" system in the first place! Thus, unless the buyer was using cash to pay me, it would be pointless to use an "anonymous" reputation system, and if he was using cash to pay me... I wouldn't need to know his reputation anyway! Regards, Sidd. Precisely, Gold has always been a bearer instrument, and should stay that way -- what this whole discussion boils down to is this: I really do not care who you are (and have no desire to find out),, so long as you pay for the gold with Cash -- either FRN's or Bank Wire. It's real simple -- If you want to retain anonymity -- then do not request to settle with anything else but Cash, period. Then the exchange provider doesn't have to worry about tracking you down if the payment goes bad,, because the payment will not go bad. Frankly,, lets call a spade a spade,, the only reason we require any kind of ID or verification is simply incase your payment goes wrong -- then we have some means of finding you and extracting the payment for the bullion you received (on your word that your payment was good). Now,, once we have established a business relationship and completed some trades without problems,, then we have some mutual trust built up between us and we both may feel comfortable with alternative means of settlement. Regards, --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: SR Identity
Sidd wrote: BUT, anyone who has a credit card or cheque account is already deeply ensconced in the "system" and is obviously not TOO concerned about privacy anyway. Not so (in my case anyway). I went around and around with my bank about the SS# illegal requirement. The bank is bound by their contract with the FED system to acquire the SS# or they are fined as per their private contract. Eventually I relented because I needed to conduct business - kind of a survival cop-out to my own principles about preserving my own business as my own business and doing business with those who break the law on purpose and FORCE others to go along. What I am interested in is helping to develop a viable and legal ALTERNATIVE to the crooked pirate scheme of the FED et al. This is NOT in defiance of the system but is a reach for freedom and privacy (to be left alone and in peace) - things not respected or valued by the system. I would hazard a guess that the VAST majority of e-gold users would enjoy the convenience of being able to fund their e-gold account using a CC... Yes, I agree. The convenience part is great. It's the other parts that stink. -- Regards, Dale Pond Delta Spectrum Research http://www.SVPvril.com Sympathetic Vibratory Physics Sacred Science - Sacred Life SVP Discussion Forum: http://www.egroups.com/list/svpvril/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold
Sidd, I agree with you on the fact it was copied and pasted. I did not mean to imply it was written specifically for E-biz ventures. Reid, I am sorry if that was misconstrued. What I meant was the volume of spends being done to E-biz on a nightly basis caused many a technical problem for e-gold and its servers. The fact that e-biz was shut down (again!) and that e-gold is down today leads me to believe there may have been a connection between the two as far as an accounting or data round up by a governmental agency.( I am probably wrong, but can anyone tell us the facts?) I hope I am wrong. So, to prove my sincerity on that, I offer the same challenge I offer ALL THE TIME: Attention Reid Jackson: PLEASE post a notice on the E-gold website at ALL times when the system is down (or expected to be down) with an explanation. This will prevent speculation, rumor spreading, and general distrust from spreading like wildfire in these situations. Or, did I miss the public posting e-gold would be down today? Or, did I miss the current explanation posted somewhere as to why it is down? I have been rather busy today, so perhaps I overlooked that. The small red "Recent Outages" link on the front page still does not "do the trick". Can I prove that statement? Can I back up my challenge for this thought? You bet! e-biz is shut down and the e-gold site is down. I wonder if the two are related? Sounds like someone does not know. If HE doesn't know, and poses these kinds of questions on the discussion lists. I can only imagine the rumors that are spreading NOW! By the way, Destiny Worldwide and those tired of Elwyn Jenkin's postings, although you are sick of SR's postings on this list at least they have the courtesy to keep the general public informed. (hint, hint) This is why I feel it is such a disappointment that outside of Jim Ray, GSR and E-gold are strangely silent on discussion lists that are for the sole purpose of promoting e-gold and its uses! Would this not be a great place for Reid Jackson (or anyone at GSR) to say: Attention e-gold users! We are experiencing a technical difficulty. Do not be alarmed. The Market Makers are not hording your funds. We expect to be operational again in. Just some food for thought. Eric - Original Message - From: Sidd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 5:44 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: e-gold Eric Wrote: Did you ever see the public apology Reid Jackson posted on the e-biz site? Oops! Eric, that public apology was addressed to the e-gold list, and was merely COPIED by the operators of e-biz to their site. The apology did not in ANY way refer to e-biz at all, it was a GENERAL APOLOGY to ALL e-gold users... Amazing how easy it is to lead people astray... Regards, Sidd. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: SR Identity
Jim., Frankly,, lets call a spade a spade,, the only reason we require any kind of ID or verification is simply incase your payment goes wrong -- then we have some means of finding you and extracting the payment for the bullion you received (on your word that your payment was good). You may not hear this, but I am giving you a standing ovation as this is precisely what I have been blabbering (but not quite so eloquently parlaying) about. I do not care WHO someone IS, or WHERE they are FROM, all I want to know is WHERE can I find the person if they try to scam my company. People who do not accept fiat monies for conversion to gold do not seem to understand this. (By the way, can I borrow that spade to pay a visit to a few mutual *friends* we both know in a quaint little California town??? I promise to wash it off when I am finished with it!) ;0) If people were honest about the payments that they sent, I would not care if they sent it to me from California's State Penitentiary because it would be a GOOD payment. The ONLY reason we need to id people is because of the rampant fraud going on out there. I will stop clapping now! Eric - Original Message - From: Goldfinger Coin and Bullion Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 5:45 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: SR Identity Fact is, any method of payment to an MM (besides cash in hand) leaves a trail back to the payer. Even an "anonymous" reputation system that allowed me to accept a CC or cheque from someone without knowing his identity, would result in the banking transactions revealing his identity to me, so there would be really no point in using the "anonymous" system in the first place! Thus, unless the buyer was using cash to pay me, it would be pointless to use an "anonymous" reputation system, and if he was using cash to pay me... I wouldn't need to know his reputation anyway! Regards, Sidd. Precisely, Gold has always been a bearer instrument, and should stay that way -- what this whole discussion boils down to is this: I really do not care who you are (and have no desire to find out),, so long as you pay for the gold with Cash -- either FRN's or Bank Wire. It's real simple -- If you want to retain anonymity -- then do not request to settle with anything else but Cash, period. Then the exchange provider doesn't have to worry about tracking you down if the payment goes bad,, because the payment will not go bad. Now,, once we have established a business relationship and completed some trades without problems,, then we have some mutual trust built up between us and we both may feel comfortable with alternative means of settlement. Regards, --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold
"Eric Gaither, Gaithman's E-Gold Exchange" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another one of those ponzi scams? If so, then in no way will e-gold be related to it. How trusting you must be in this inter-related world. Yes, there is a good chance the two are not related, however, due to the volume of money e-biz had in e-gold, my thoughts steer to the relation. Did you ever see the public apology Reid Jackson posted on the e-biz site? Like I said, I have no clue at all about what e-biz is. So I haven't seen their website. Do you or anyone else have a copy of this public apology? (BTW: is Reid still an e-gold/gsr employee?) Oh, and uhm... I indeed trust e-gold and GSR not to be actively involved in any ponzi scam. Edwin --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold
Eric Gaither said on Saturday, December 30, 2000 7:34 PM: How trusting you must be in this inter-related world. Yes, there is a good chance the two are not related, however, due to the volume of money e-biz had in e-gold, my thoughts steer to the relation. Did you ever see the public apology Reid Jackson posted on the e-biz site? Actually, perhaps *you* are excessively trusting. I've never posted anything, let alone an apology, to the e-biz site. I *did* post to this list on November 28, 2000 regarding recent e-gold web site performance problems. A similar document was published on the e-gold website and linked to from the e-gold homepage. The version posted to e-gold-list can be located via its web interface: http://www.e-gold.com/unsecure/lists.html Also available in this public archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg00867.html Somebody apparently posted the text of this document to the e-biz site, judging by the unsolicted e-mail I've received from e-biz customers. If this somebody also modified these words or attempted to make it appear that I posted to the e-biz site, that would not speak well for their character. If somebody knows whether or not this is the case, I suppose I'd be mildly curious. - Reid - --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: SR Identity
Dale wrote: Not so (in my case anyway). I went around and around with my bank about the SS# illegal requirement. The bank is bound by their contract with the FED system to acquire the SS# or they are fined as per their private contract. Eventually I relented because I needed to conduct business - kind of a survival cop-out to my own principles about preserving my own business as my own business and doing business with those who break the law on purpose and FORCE others to go along. Ok, no problem there, you ARE concerned about your privacy, BUT (by your own admission), you were "persuaded" by force of circumstance to comply to the invasive ID requirements. That is precisely my point, few people would probably even go to the lengths you did, and to operate in the existing system, one MUST (to a certain extent) toe the line. What I am interested in is helping to develop a viable and legal ALTERNATIVE to the crooked pirate scheme of the FED et al. This is NOT in defiance of the system but is a reach for freedom and privacy (to be left alone and in peace) - things not respected or valued by the system. The viable and legal alternative is already there; it's called e-gold! No need for ID or reputation to know a payment is good etc So, all we do is we have one life that operates WITHIN the (FED etc.) system as far as is necessary to do business with the uninitiated, and we have another life that operates OUTSIDE in the "free" world as far as is practical as the "free" world gets stronger, our involvement shifts more and more out of the "system" its not really that difficult! Have a great new year! Regards, Sidd. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold
When I asked if e-biz and e-gold were related I was referring to the down time and closure of e-biz. It occurred to me masses of e-biz 'participants' would be trying to asccess their egold accounts at the same time. As there are about 30 thousand of them (i have been told) I imagine that would cause any well run site to falter momentarily. I did not wish to infer there was any commercial connection between the two. My understand is that e-gold holds itself aloof from any transactional business through the accounts. Mr Jackson is correct. I read his apology and no where does it mention any account holder or business or venture. simply addressed to the e-gold account holders as a whole. Chucky = Original Message From [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Eric Gaither said on Saturday, December 30, 2000 7:34 PM: How trusting you must be in this inter-related world. Yes, there is a good chance the two are not related, however, due to the volume of money e-biz had in e-gold, my thoughts steer to the relation. Did you ever see the public apology Reid Jackson posted on the e-biz site? Actually, perhaps *you* are excessively trusting. I've never posted anything, let alone an apology, to the e-biz site. I *did* post to this list on November 28, 2000 regarding recent e-gold web site performance problems. A similar document was published on the e-gold website and linked to from the e-gold homepage. The version posted to e-gold-list can be located via its web interface: http://www.e-gold.com/unsecure/lists.html Also available in this public archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg00867.html Somebody apparently posted the text of this document to the e-biz site, judging by the unsolicted e-mail I've received from e-biz customers. If this somebody also modified these words or attempted to make it appear that I posted to the e-biz site, that would not speak well for their character. If somebody knows whether or not this is the case, I suppose I'd be mildly curious. - Reid - --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Powered by http://www.telstra.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold
Reid, Your alive! Oh, I am so happy to know your reading these discussion lists! Now, can you please answer the $65 K dollar question of the day: What is the reason the e-gold website is down and how soon are you projecting it to be back up? My phone has been ringing off the hook (as it always does) when the e-gold website goes down. People ALWAYS think that we *independent* Market Makers are in control of the e-gold website. I spend hours explaining that is not the case. E-gold and GSR are separate companies and THEY control the e-gold website. Actually, perhaps *you* are excessively trusting. I've never posted anything, let alone an apology, to the e-biz site. By the way, interestingly enough, your public apology WAS pasted on the e-biz website for quite sometime. Seeing that e-biz was handling such volume of e-gold, it did appear you wrote that for them. Sounds like you did not. Did you ever ask them to remove it from their site? Or, do you ever review sites? I imagine your a busy guy so maybe not. But, with a title like yours, I would be judicious in my letting people post my words on a public site. Based on the number of page views your apology got from the e-biz site, many a person (myself included initially) thought YOU did do just that. Perhaps *you* could share the truth and enlighten us, yes? What is up with the e-gold website down time? Any expectations for it going back up today? Thanks, Reid! Eric - Original Message - From: Reid Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 6:35 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: e-gold Eric Gaither said on Saturday, December 30, 2000 7:34 PM: How trusting you must be in this inter-related world. Yes, there is a good chance the two are not related, however, due to the volume of money e-biz had in e-gold, my thoughts steer to the relation. Did you ever see the public apology Reid Jackson posted on the e-biz site? Actually, perhaps *you* are excessively trusting. I've never posted anything, let alone an apology, to the e-biz site. I *did* post to this list on November 28, 2000 regarding recent e-gold web site performance problems. A similar document was published on the e-gold website and linked to from the e-gold homepage. The version posted to e-gold-list can be located via its web interface: http://www.e-gold.com/unsecure/lists.html Also available in this public archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg00867.html Somebody apparently posted the text of this document to the e-biz site, judging by the unsolicted e-mail I've received from e-biz customers. If this somebody also modified these words or attempted to make it appear that I posted to the e-biz site, that would not speak well for their character. If somebody knows whether or not this is the case, I suppose I'd be mildly curious. - Reid - --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: SR Identity
Boyd wrote: It can also work in the reverse, I want to sell, the MM deposits cash to my acct, I spend the egold to his. It does take a leaf of faith the first time this is done, or maybe even the first 2 or 3 times ... Not for much longer... watch this space... Sidd. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: SR Identity
At 8:48 PM -0500 12/30/00, B Ray wrote: http://www.yoursolutions.net/goldrush/ I musyt say that's a good, SIMPLE, sensible looking xchange provider (I have absolutely no idea who's running it, if it's a crooked one, or whatever! :) ) Thank god for simple, clear instructions. Whoever is running it, buy yourself a domain name for $20, for god's sake! You can pay for a domain name w/ gold at domains.jhcloos.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: SR Identity
--Original Message-- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: December 31, 2000 1:59:06 AM GMT Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: SR Identity At 8:48 PM -0500 12/30/00, B Ray wrote: http://www.yoursolutions.net/goldrush/ I musyt say that's a good, SIMPLE, sensible looking xchange provider (I have absolutely no idea who's running it, if it's a crooked one, or whatever! :) ) All I can tell you is that the 2 transaction I did with James Shupperd were clean, quick, and with no BS and completed within half an hour at most. I believe there have been others who have dealt with him who post the fact that they were very pleased also. B Pate Play for fun or for Real, Win Gold http://www.thegoldcasino.com/win.cgi?3202416 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Free Visa Card?
Hi there, Would you believe it, I have found a Free VISA CARD. Take a quick look at www.visarebates.com . They're giving away free Visa cards with free flight miles on any airline and paying people a ton of money to refer their contacts. And this isn't very hard! This thing is spreading like wildfire, and they're passing out millions of dollars for referring something that's free. what can I say! Take look and see if you want to get in on the action. If you sign up for one of these free Visa cards, be sure to enter my Referral IDgoldtoday One of my customers has just gotten 66 referrals in three hours. He is beside himself with joy. I don't normally look at MLM's but this is quite impressive! They're also giving away free Visa cards with free flight miles on any airline and paying MLM commissions to refer other Cardholders. They pay out on a huge 10-level plan - $10 for the first level and $2 on the next nine - nobody buys a thing. The money comes from the bank because of the value of cardholders. This thing is spreading like wildfire. i suggest you check it out. If you sign up for one of these Visa cards, please be sure to enter my Referral ID: goldtoday Remember, ITS FREE! When you apply for your card, enter my Referral ID: goldtoday Thanksfor your timeand have a great new Year 2001! Kind regards, Michael Moore[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.gold-today.comSign up with e-gold today and get grams of e-gold here.https://www.e-gold.com/newacct/newaccount.asp?cid=129542 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Accounts/Privacy/Fraud
This whole issue of annonymous accounts/fraud/privacy can be resolved quitesimply it seems to me.Firstly the accounts.e-gold, or SR or Goldmoney and who ever is the new gold supplierthat willbe openingin the new year simply sets up three types of accounts.xx is the standard account which is currently set up by e-gold. Anyonecan open this account and it is relatively annonymous.xxM would be a merchant or business account. To open this accountFull ID would need to be supplied. Anyone dealing with this account wouldbe aware that full ID has been provided and know that the person istrackable and bona fide. Alpha designations can be applied simply at the endof the account number and would form part of the account number. The nameof the Account would also be fixed at the time the account is opened. Mfor merchant B for business C for charity S for 'those special investmentschemes' and so forth. If there is no alpha designation at the end of theaccount number you might think twice before spending to that account. Theresponsibility lies with the spender. It also reinforces the non repudiablepolicy e-gold has.xxP of course would be an accredited service provider or Market Maker.(Of course I am not an accredited Market Maker as far as e-gold is concernedso I might be hoisting my own pertard with this one)Those people who wish to remain annonymous can do so. Those with alegitimate business to run can do so and those who wish to run somethingdubious can also do so. It is then the responsibility of the personspending the gold. No more crying victim.This also answers the question of privacy. Those who wish to remainannonymous can do so. The one disadvantage is that they cannot run abusiness and remain annonymous at the same time. Secondly, what about the fraudsters who pass bad cheques, the scamstersand such choice items as paypal etc? Well paypal firstly. Simply do notpromote it, do not use it, do not accept it if you consider it is notreliable. I will not use Paypal as is another avenue for criminals touse and really costs more that it saves in time and aquiring customers. andit does not replace doing the work to verify a customers veracity. anyway.Now, having been the recipient of some particularly nasty cheques I canspeak with some authority and the first step is simply do not acceptcheques, do not accept credit cards (after all we are trying to get awayfrom that type of transaction so why encourage it?). "Oh...but I will losebusiness!.." I hear you say. Ask any money maker how much business theyhave lost by not accepting credit cards... you will find it is very little.in fact you would be hard put to find an MM who DOES accept credit cards ona consistent ongoing basis.The same goes for cheques. I do not accept overseas cheques any more(particularly US cheques) but this has not affected my business at all. People will adapt and this is what we are striving for as well as make a fewbob doing it. If all the MMs said "No more Cheques. Cash, Bank Wires andWestern Union Money orders Only ". Are your customers going to go somewhereelse? I think not! But of course there will the that MM who will say "Heyover here...I will take your cheques...give them to me.." and all thefraudsters will say, "Hey look, an opening.. let's use it quick!", and thatMM willget clobbered and will then decide it IS more prudent to go with theflow.Additionally instead of saying "oh...we need some perfect software to doour job for us." . let us simply set some policy which we will agree to andenforce with regard to payments and I can assure you the customers will cometo the party. The next step is of courseverify. Do you have a verification process inplace? If not do you want to buy one? I can sell you one. It is a sheetof paper with 10 steps written on it. (I bet graham has one too). i cansell it to you for 100USD, or you can sit down and write one yourself ifyou have not already and save the 100USD (damn!)The last step is to locate a system easy for clients to use that replacesthe cheque/credit card system and that is reliable and secure and has nochargeback threat or can freeze. In Australian there is such a a systemand it is called Technocash. This will be the system that will replace allothers for the most part. I'm sure a similar system is obtainable in the USand other countries (if not technocash soon will be). Or you can deviseone.As an aside, almost ALL my business is referrals and word of mouth. Afterthe cheque senario my business came to a virtual stop. But over time ithas started to build up again and with no advertising (apart of theoccasional announcement on the discussion board) is building up very nicelyby word of mouth and referrals and all my clients and stable, known to meand I have no problem accepting cheques or any other form of payment fromthem. These types of clients are the best you can get, they are loyal andreliable. I will
[e-gold-list] More Questions
a) must all of Michael Moore's posts always be accompanied by sheaves of blockquotes and equally as abundandant quanities of irritating hieroglyphic html code? b) Re: rip-offs what do people expect when they deal with inherently dishonest systems such as credit cards and bank debt instruments? c) are some people really making an attempt to keep records of every miniscule transaction they make with e-gold, or any other monetary system, in order to surrender some part of their assets to greedy and unscrupulous government agencies? d) am I the only one in the world to never to have had a credit card and to have had eschewed traditional banking for very nearly the last 20 years? e) are a majority of people in the world really as stupid as they continue to appear to be? f) ...if I have offended, may I offer my recent consumption of two gigantic and delicious Manhattans as an expedient excuse for my tactlessness? ..Oh, and by the way, Happy New Year! --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
