Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
Jim Cox wrote: Amen Joe. It is amazing the gripes you hear and the justifications for them. The specs were advertised; if you didnt like them, why did you purchase a K3? I am a very satisfied K3 customer and I have used the K3 to work weak dx on all the bands 160-6 meters.. Jim K4JAF I believe the right to freedom of speech extends to this reflector, Jim. I think Elecraft themselves may have inadvertently helped to feed the impression that the K3 was below par on 6m by rushing out an accessory preamp that was not announced at the time of the K3 launch, even ahead of accessories that were announced then such as the voice recorder. I have even had the opinion expressed to me privately that since the preamp was necessary Elecraft ought to be providing it free of charge to existing customers! Therefore I make no apology for raising this matter. I hope that others have found the ensuing thread informative and ultimately reassuring that the external preamp is only necessary for those who require the ultimate performance - just as with any other transceiver. I believe the K3 would not be as good as it is today if the only feedback Elecraft got from its customers was fanboy adulation. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1371401.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
David Ferrington, M0XDF, wrote on Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:10 AM . hell, no 6M until next May anyway! :-) 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 Don't count on that! :-) At any point in a solar cycle 6m 'Sporadic E' openings do occur during any month of the year, being much more frequent and of longer duration during the mid summer and winter 'seasons'. A fact that I have noted since first using 6m in 1956. 73, Geoff GM4ESD ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
Well, I 'may' not be QRV on 6M until then - depends when the PR6 ships :-) Thanks for the insight Geoff - I don't have a brilliant Ant for 6 here, so hoping the pre-amp will help me hear better. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- Dear God, Did you mean for the giraffe to look like that or was it an accident? -Norma [Children's Letters to God, 1991] On 23 Oct 2008, at 11:39, Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote: David Ferrington, M0XDF, wrote on Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:10 AM . hell, no 6M until next May anyway! :-) 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 Don't count on that! :-) At any point in a solar cycle 6m 'Sporadic E' openings do occur during any month of the year, being much more frequent and of longer duration during the mid summer and winter 'seasons'. A fact that I have noted since first using 6m in 1956. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: Well, I 'may' not be QRV on 6M until then - depends when the PR6 ships :-) Thanks for the insight Geoff - I don't have a brilliant Ant for 6 here, so hoping the pre-amp will help me hear better. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 Well, given the current economic climate, at $250 (KXV3 + preamp) plus shipping to get performance that the stock K3 ought to have been capable of anyway, I think I'll pass on this. I can always use the FT-817. Just how deaf is the K3 on 6m really, anyway? - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1367908.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
Well, difficult for me to tell, since I don't have a great 6m ant., but I think about par with 857 - a good many people on here have said is quiet deaf. I have the KXV3 since I also have the XV144 - which I'll get around to building sometime! -- Study without desire spoils the memory, and it retains nothing that it takes in. -- Leonardo da Vinci On 23 Oct 2008, at 13:05, Julian, G4ILO wrote: David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: Well, I 'may' not be QRV on 6M until then - depends when the PR6 ships :-) Thanks for the insight Geoff - I don't have a brilliant Ant for 6 here, so hoping the pre-amp will help me hear better. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 Well, given the current economic climate, at $250 (KXV3 + preamp) plus shipping to get performance that the stock K3 ought to have been capable of anyway, I think I'll pass on this. I can always use the FT-817. Just how deaf is the K3 on 6m really, anyway? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: sorry, found it - thanks for the heads up - ordered mine to ship with KDVR3 - hell, no 6M until next May anyway! :-) 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 You will appreciate the extra dB improvement if you try to make any weak signal contacts. I know that most of the 6m operators around the world live in geomagnetically friendly places and only get on for strong signals on Es and F2, but there are a growing number of us weak signal operators who are coming to appreciate the real magic that 6m has to offer. Now that we are at the bottom of the solar cycle, the conditions for EME are BEST, and I worked two new DXCC so far this week on 6m EME. Frankly, there is DX EVERY MONTH on 6m if you are patient and willing to look for it ;-) The K3 (with an external preamp) is ready-made for working weak signal modes such as JT65A because the computer interface is built-in - GREAT JOB, Elecraft! I am very much looking forward to the next new 6m DXCC contact with someone who has a K3 and an ACOM 1000! GL and VY 73, Lance -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
Julian, from my earlier measurements (from per my web site): Adding an external pre-amplifier between the RF out and RF in of a KXV3 interface improves the sensitivity by 10 dBm giving 10 dB SINAD at -136 dBm in 400 Hz bandwidth and a MDS of -146 dBm -which compares to an MDS of -136 dBm without the pre-amp. The pre-amp I am using is an Advanced Receiver Research Inc. model P50VDG with power derived from the +12 Volt output of the K3. There is no need to add a 10 dB attenuator after the pre-amp as the K3 attenuator works fine to reduce strong signals and in any event the pre-amp can be switched out by pressing the RX ANT switch on the K3. The 0.5 dB NF Advanced Receiver Research 6m pre-amp is a similar package to the PR6, except it only has the IN/OUT sockets. http://www.advancedreceiver.com/ 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 = Well, given the current economic climate, at $250 (KXV3 + preamp) plus shipping to get performance that the stock K3 ought to have been capable of anyway, I think I'll pass on this. I can always use the FT-817. Just how deaf is the K3 on 6m really, anyway? - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
Dave G4AON wrote: Julian, from my earlier measurements (from per my web site): Adding an external pre-amplifier between the RF out and RF in of a KXV3 interface improves the sensitivity by 10 dBm giving 10 dB SINAD at -136 dBm in 400 Hz bandwidth and a MDS of -146 dBm -which compares to an MDS of -136 dBm without the pre-amp. That sounds like a huge improvement, but the ARR is a high-end preamp if I am not mistaken. I guess my question is really, is the K3 inferior to other transceivers in its price class as regards 6m sensitivity? Most people would accept the need to purchase accessories to get the last bit of performance. Paying out $150 (or $250) to bring the performance up to what it should have been in the first place is a different matter. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1369090.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
That sounds like a huge improvement, but the ARR is a high-end preamp if I am not mistaken. I guess my question is really, is the K3 inferior to other transceivers in its price class as regards 6m sensitivity? I believe the tests were made with the economy version of the ARR preamp (P50VD: 1.3 dB nf, 15 dB gain). The P50VD is $49.95 ... A similar preamp is available from Down East Microwave .. the 6MLNA (0.7 dB nf, 18 dB gain) is $64.00 ($35.00 kit). Most people would accept the need to purchase accessories to get the last bit of performance. Paying out $150 (or $250) to bring the performance up to what it should have been in the first place is a different matter. I don't know that you can say performance on six meters should have been higher than the performance on the HF bands. There are probably more K3 users who will never use six meters in any serious way than those who will. However, the Elecraft preamp does represent a substantial premium for RX Loop pass-through and ease of integration. Whether the premium is justified is a decision for the user and the option allows those who need it to get the performance without taxing those who will never benefit from it. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:35 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp Dave G4AON wrote: Julian, from my earlier measurements (from per my web site): Adding an external pre-amplifier between the RF out and RF in of a KXV3 interface improves the sensitivity by 10 dBm giving 10 dB SINAD at -136 dBm in 400 Hz bandwidth and a MDS of -146 dBm -which compares to an MDS of -136 dBm without the pre-amp. That sounds like a huge improvement, but the ARR is a high-end preamp if I am not mistaken. I guess my question is really, is the K3 inferior to other transceivers in its price class as regards 6m sensitivity? Most people would accept the need to purchase accessories to get the last bit of performance. Paying out $150 (or $250) to bring the performance up to what it should have been in the first place is a different matter. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1369090.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote: I don't know that you can say performance on six meters should have been higher than the performance on the HF bands. There are probably more K3 users who will never use six meters in any serious way than those who will. However, the Elecraft preamp does represent a substantial premium for RX Loop pass-through and ease of integration. Whether the premium is justified is a decision for the user and the option allows those who need it to get the performance without taxing those who will never benefit from it. I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have been higher than the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying that it should not be worse than an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 or an FT-2000 would be, considering the claims made about the K3's performance. I have no idea of the proportion of K3 users who will never use 6 meters in any serious way. However I think there are quite a few, such as myself, who will have some fun on the band from time to time simply because modern HF transceivers now include it. I'm certainly not serious enough about 6m to spend money on a preamp for it, so I'm feeling a little short-changed after receiving information that the K3 is so deaf on 6m that you need one. The other radios mentioned above certainly are usable on 6m without a preamp by all but the most diehard enthusiast who would probably want it at the masthead anyway. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1369367.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
I wonder if someone from Elecraft might step in here with a comment on what their position is regarding 6 mtr sensitivity. Here, I am able to hear a beacon that is about 25 miles from my QTH with a very minimum of an antenna. I am waiting for a 6 mtr opening to see if I can make any contacts but would be interested in knowing what Elecraft says about the 6 mtr operaiton of the K3. 73 Doug N3QW - Original Message - From: G4ILO Julian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:52:27 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote: I don't know that you can say performance on six meters should have been higher than the performance on the HF bands. There are probably more K3 users who will never use six meters in any serious way than those who will. However, the Elecraft preamp does represent a substantial premium for RX Loop pass-through and ease of integration. Whether the premium is justified is a decision for the user and the option allows those who need it to get the performance without taxing those who will never benefit from it. I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have been higher than the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying that it should not be worse than an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 or an FT-2000 would be, considering the claims made about the K3's performance. I have no idea of the proportion of K3 users who will never use 6 meters in any serious way. However I think there are quite a few, such as myself, who will have some fun on the band from time to time simply because modern HF transceivers now include it. I'm certainly not serious enough about 6m to spend money on a preamp for it, so I'm feeling a little short-changed after receiving information that the K3 is so deaf on 6m that you need one. The other radios mentioned above certainly are usable on 6m without a preamp by all but the most diehard enthusiast who would probably want it at the masthead anyway. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directory http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1369367.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
Julian, G4ILO wrote: I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have been higher than the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying that it should not be worse than an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 or an FT-2000 would be, considering the claims made about the K3's performance. I have no idea of the proportion of K3 users who will never use 6 meters in any serious way. However I think there are quite a few, such as myself, who will have some fun on the band from time to time simply because modern HF transceivers now include it. I'm certainly not serious enough about 6m to spend money on a preamp for it, so I'm feeling a little short-changed after receiving information that the K3 is so deaf on 6m that you need one. The other radios mentioned above certainly are usable on 6m without a preamp by all but the most diehard enthusiast who would probably want it at the masthead anyway. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 Hello Julian, Yes, other HF/6m transceivers such as the IC756 and IC746 are also relatively insensitive when it comes to 6m. I understand the typical HF/6m transceiver has a front end noise figure in the neighborhood of 5 or 6 dB on 6m and some are much worse. Part of the tradeoff for handling strong signals on 20m I suppose. For most strong signal applications it makes little difference. Putting a low noise preamp such as the one offered by Elecraft ahead of your receiver typically will give you a dB or so more sensitivity, provided you have low loss feedline. If you are using lossy old RG8 or RG58 then you might as well not bother with a preamp because if there was a weak signal there at the antenna, it will be gone at your rig anyway. For strong signal openings who cares about a dB or two? For weak signal contacts from a quiet QTH, that can make all the difference. It is great to have a rig like the K3 where you have an option. GL and VY 73, Lance -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
While having a 6-meter preamplifier may help when signals are weak, if the band well and truly opens, signals will be so strong that overload will be most operator's main problem. Remember that during the openings of 1948 and 1959, many stations managed to work WAS with transmitters that put out less than 10 watts (Gonset Communicators and the like) and had receivers where a 10 db noise figure was considered good, and many were much worse, plus many were using very simple antennas (eg: a ground-plane vertical). Up this way, Tim, KL7WE (SK) did indeed work WAS (from Alaska) with a barefoot 2 to 3 watt output ICOM IC-502 set in the 1970's. Not trying to discourage anyone from having a preamplifier available, but just mentioning that with a bit of patience, a stock radio may be all you need. - Jim, KL7CC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp K3
Yes, the 502, I had one of those and worked with the built in antenna to great results with 2 watts. The K3 has some good noise filtering and the filters are helpful. I have two other radios capable of 6 meters and have not done a comparison. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Wiley Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 3:32 PM To: Greg-N4CC Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp While having a 6-meter preamplifier may help when signals are weak, if the band well and truly opens, signals will be so strong that overload will be most operator's main problem. Remember that during the openings of 1948 and 1959, many stations managed to work WAS with transmitters that put out less than 10 watts (Gonset Communicators and the like) and had receivers where a 10 db noise figure was considered good, and many were much worse, plus many were using very simple antennas (eg: a ground-plane vertical). Up this way, Tim, KL7WE (SK) did indeed work WAS (from Alaska) with a barefoot 2 to 3 watt output ICOM IC-502 set in the 1970's. Not trying to discourage anyone from having a preamplifier available, but just mentioning that with a bit of patience, a stock radio may be all you need. - Jim, KL7CC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
As some one who bought the K3 purely for it's RX performance on 6m, can some one tell me once and for all if it is as good as, or better/worse than, other radios like the Icom 756 pro etc... It was my understanding from information provided that it was, is this not the case?? 73 Andy http://www.gd0tep.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO Sent: 23 October 2008 19:52 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote: I don't know that you can say performance on six meters should have been higher than the performance on the HF bands. There are probably more K3 users who will never use six meters in any serious way than those who will. However, the Elecraft preamp does represent a substantial premium for RX Loop pass-through and ease of integration. Whether the premium is justified is a decision for the user and the option allows those who need it to get the performance without taxing those who will never benefit from it. I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have been higher than the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying that it should not be worse than an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 or an FT-2000 would be, considering the claims made about the K3's performance. I have no idea of the proportion of K3 users who will never use 6 meters in any serious way. However I think there are quite a few, such as myself, who will have some fun on the band from time to time simply because modern HF transceivers now include it. I'm certainly not serious enough about 6m to spend money on a preamp for it, so I'm feeling a little short-changed after receiving information that the K3 is so deaf on 6m that you need one. The other radios mentioned above certainly are usable on 6m without a preamp by all but the most diehard enthusiast who would probably want it at the masthead anyway. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1369367.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1741 - Release Date: 23/10/2008 07:54 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have been higher than the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying that it should not be worse than an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 or an FT-2000 would be, considering the claims made about the K3's performance. No, you are asking for a lower MDS than on HF without regard to the overall performance of the radio in terms of dynamic range. There are many K3 users who rely on dynamic range and freedom from interference on HF that blows away any of the radios you list. Even on six meters they K3 dynamic range far exceeds that of the YaeComWood radios you cite. Above all, your information concerning sensitivity is just plain wrong. The ARRL Lab data shows the FT-2000 sensitivity (MDS) on 50 MHz (preamp off) at -122 dBm ... and measures the K3 MDS at -128 dBm (preamp off). Similarly, with preamp 1 the FT-2000 measured at -131 dBm vs. -135 dBm for the K3 (internal preamp). If you want to compare the TS-2000, its MDS (preamp off) is -127 dBm rising to -142 dBm with preamp on but with a dynamic range of only 66dB (worse than a 30 year old FT-101!). To complete your comparisons, the Icom has the same -136 dBm MDS with preamp 1 and a dynamic range of only 74 dB. I would say that Eric and Wayne made exactly the right design decisions with a -136 dBm MDS and 100 dB dynamic range. Yes, the K3's MDS is slightly worse on 50 MHz than on 14 MHz due to the additional filtering in the front end. However, even with a lousy vertical antenna, my receiver noise always increases by at least 2 dB when switching from a dummy load to the antenna. A second higher gain, preamplifier would be of no value to the vast majority of K3 users ... in fact it would likely be counter- productive as it would harm the excellent dynamic range of the radio. Why should those who have no need for the ultra high sensitivity on a band they rarely use subsidize performance that benefits only a limited few? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:52 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote: I don't know that you can say performance on six meters should have been higher than the performance on the HF bands. There are probably more K3 users who will never use six meters in any serious way than those who will. However, the Elecraft preamp does represent a substantial premium for RX Loop pass-through and ease of integration. Whether the premium is justified is a decision for the user and the option allows those who need it to get the performance without taxing those who will never benefit from it. I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have been higher than the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying that it should not be worse than an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 or an FT-2000 would be, considering the claims made about the K3's performance. I have no idea of the proportion of K3 users who will never use 6 meters in any serious way. However I think there are quite a few, such as myself, who will have some fun on the band from time to time simply because modern HF transceivers now include it. I'm certainly not serious enough about 6m to spend money on a preamp for it, so I'm feeling a little short-changed after receiving information that the K3 is so deaf on 6m that you need one. The other radios mentioned above certainly are usable on 6m without a preamp by all but the most diehard enthusiast who would probably want it at the masthead anyway. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1369367.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote: No, you are asking for a lower MDS than on HF without regard to the overall performance of the radio in terms of dynamic range. There are many K3 users who rely on dynamic range and freedom from interference on HF that blows away any of the radios you list. Even on six meters they K3 dynamic range far exceeds that of the YaeComWood radios you cite. Above all, your information concerning sensitivity is just plain wrong. The ARRL Lab data shows the FT-2000 sensitivity (MDS) on 50 MHz (preamp off) at -122 dBm ... and measures the K3 MDS at -128 dBm (preamp off). Similarly, with preamp 1 the FT-2000 measured at -131 dBm vs. -135 dBm for the K3 (internal preamp). If you want to compare the TS-2000, its MDS (preamp off) is -127 dBm rising to -142 dBm with preamp on but with a dynamic range of only 66dB (worse than a 30 year old FT-101!). To complete your comparisons, the Icom has the same -136 dBm MDS with preamp 1 and a dynamic range of only 74 dB. I would say that Eric and Wayne made exactly the right design decisions with a -136 dBm MDS and 100 dB dynamic range. Yes, the K3's MDS is slightly worse on 50 MHz than on 14 MHz due to the additional filtering in the front end. However, even with a lousy vertical antenna, my receiver noise always increases by at least 2 dB when switching from a dummy load to the antenna. A second higher gain, preamplifier would be of no value to the vast majority of K3 users ... in fact it would likely be counter- productive as it would harm the excellent dynamic range of the radio. Why should those who have no need for the ultra high sensitivity on a band they rarely use subsidize performance that benefits only a limited few? Because the K3 is advertised as a high performance 160-6m transceiver, not a high performance 160-10m transceiver with 6m coverage at a lower level of performance. I don't see why good 6m receive performance is necessarily incompatible with good HF dynamic range. Preamps can be switched out, and some Japanese made radios I believe have separate preamps for their VHF bands. Wayne has explained why the sensitivity on 6m is not as good as on other bands and it is clear that this is as a result of a design compromise made on the basis that HF performance was paramount. As someone else in this thread pointed out, this compromise is not something that is widely publicised, and it might have affected some people's purchase decisions. I might not have sold the 6m transverter I used with my K2 if I had known that the K3 was not going to have the superior performance on all bands that I thought it was going to have. Still, I'm glad to hear from other contributors to this thread who have said that they have found the stock K3 just fine. Given that I'm in a fairly noisy urban environment, perhaps the preamp would have been a waste of money for me anyway. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1370007.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
gd0tep wrote: As some one who bought the K3 purely for it's RX performance on 6m, can some one tell me once and for all if it is as good as, or better/worse than, other radios like the Icom 756 pro etc... It was my understanding from information provided that it was, is this not the case?? The K3's sensitivity specification corresponds to a noise figure of about 13dB. My K3 meets its sensitivity spec almost exactly, but at this site it can barely hear antenna noise on 6m. By contrast, the old IC-746 hears 6m antenna noise easily because it has a VHF-optimized preamp built in. Even that ageing mid-range rig has a choice of two different preamps (and a third dedicated to 2m). Of course it's still possible to work lots of weak DX on 6m using the standard K3 receiver; but in the limit, some QSOs will be lost that could have been completed with a more sensitive receiver. The K3 with a preamp is probably the best 6m receiver available; but this high-end rig should have included a competent 6m preamp and bypass relays on the original KVXV3 board, and not as a clumsy afterthought. -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 05:05 -0700, Julian, G4ILO wrote: I can always use the FT-817. Just how deaf is the K3 on 6m really, anyway? Not very deaf at all. It's just not capable of hearing to the thermal nose floor at a good setup. Having said that Stock K3's have managed EME contacts so it's not far off and the stock K3 is definitely better on 6m than many of the other mid priced HF+6m, radios out there and runs veritable rings around the 817 on 6m in the sensitivity stakes. Adding the preamp here ( I am one of the 6m-pre beta testers) to my good set-up (7 element long yagi in a very quiet rural location) helps by a couple of dB, well worth having for weak signal work but makes no difference for 95% of my 6m Contacts If your local noise floor is not quiet then the 6m pre won't help a bit. A quick test is does the received nose level drop significantly (several dB) when you switch from your antenna to a 50Ohm Dummy load? If so then it is unlikely a preamp will help. 73 Brendan -- Don‘t complain. Nobody will understand. Or care. And certainly don‘t try to fix the situation yourself. It‘s dangerous. Leave it to a highly untrained, unqualified, expendable professional. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
The K3's sensitivity specification corresponds to a noise figure of about 13dB. My K3 meets its sensitivity spec almost exactly, That's the point. The K3 meets its specifications. The K3 with a preamp is probably the best 6m receiver available; but this high-end rig should have included a competent 6m preamp and bypass relays on the original KVXV3 board, and not as a clumsy afterthought. You will never get agreement as to what should be included in the KXV3 (transverter board) or the overall package. Low band fans will tell you the transceiver should include full receive antenna switching (e.g., relays to allow the KRX3 to use the transmit antenna while the main receiver uses the RX antenna and/or allow each receiver to use a different low noise receive antenna. There is simply is no room for the other functions on the KXV3 and no justification for adding the extra cost (and operational complexity) for features that will only be used by a small fraction of users. Elecraft have struck an excellent balance - designing a rig with an equal level of performance across the operating range and providing an interface (KXV3) that allows those who want additional performance or features (better rx antenna switching, higher sensitivity on 50 MHz, UHF/VHF transverters, KRX3, etc.) to add them as needed and at reasonable cost. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian White GM3SEK Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:23 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp gd0tep wrote: As some one who bought the K3 purely for it's RX performance on 6m, can some one tell me once and for all if it is as good as, or better/worse than, other radios like the Icom 756 pro etc... It was my understanding from information provided that it was, is this not the case?? The K3's sensitivity specification corresponds to a noise figure of about 13dB. My K3 meets its sensitivity spec almost exactly, but at this site it can barely hear antenna noise on 6m. By contrast, the old IC-746 hears 6m antenna noise easily because it has a VHF-optimized preamp built in. Even that ageing mid-range rig has a choice of two different preamps (and a third dedicated to 2m). Of course it's still possible to work lots of weak DX on 6m using the standard K3 receiver; but in the limit, some QSOs will be lost that could have been completed with a more sensitive receiver. The K3 with a preamp is probably the best 6m receiver available; but this high-end rig should have included a competent 6m preamp and bypass relays on the original KVXV3 board, and not as a clumsy afterthought. -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
Julian, clear that this is as a result of a design compromise made on the basis that HF performance was paramount I don't think it was a compromise, if it was intentional to keep performance at peak. Weak signal work usually requires preamp at the antenna not at the radio, and personally I'd rather have the focus on MDS with excellent ears. The excellent ears without MDS are useless in high noise and strong adjacent sigs. 73, Bill K9YEQ K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods -Original Message- Still, I'm glad to hear from other contributors to this thread who have said that they have found the stock K3 just fine. Given that I'm in a fairly noisy urban environment, perhaps the preamp would have been a waste of money for me anyway. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
Amen Joe. It is amazing the gripes you hear and the justifications for them. The specs were advertised; if you didnt like them, why did you purchase a K3? I am a very satisfied K3 customer and I have used the K3 to work weak dx on all the bands 160-6 meters.. Jim K4JAF - Original Message - From: Joe Subich, W4TV [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Ian White GM3SEK' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 5:57 PM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp The K3's sensitivity specification corresponds to a noise figure of about 13dB. My K3 meets its sensitivity spec almost exactly, That's the point. The K3 meets its specifications. The K3 with a preamp is probably the best 6m receiver available; but this high-end rig should have included a competent 6m preamp and bypass relays on the original KVXV3 board, and not as a clumsy afterthought. You will never get agreement as to what should be included in the KXV3 (transverter board) or the overall package. Low band fans will tell you the transceiver should include full receive antenna switching (e.g., relays to allow the KRX3 to use the transmit antenna while the main receiver uses the RX antenna and/or allow each receiver to use a different low noise receive antenna. There is simply is no room for the other functions on the KXV3 and no justification for adding the extra cost (and operational complexity) for features that will only be used by a small fraction of users. Elecraft have struck an excellent balance - designing a rig with an equal level of performance across the operating range and providing an interface (KXV3) that allows those who want additional performance or features (better rx antenna switching, higher sensitivity on 50 MHz, UHF/VHF transverters, KRX3, etc.) to add them as needed and at reasonable cost. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian White GM3SEK Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:23 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp gd0tep wrote: As some one who bought the K3 purely for it's RX performance on 6m, can some one tell me once and for all if it is as good as, or better/worse than, other radios like the Icom 756 pro etc... It was my understanding from information provided that it was, is this not the case?? The K3's sensitivity specification corresponds to a noise figure of about 13dB. My K3 meets its sensitivity spec almost exactly, but at this site it can barely hear antenna noise on 6m. By contrast, the old IC-746 hears 6m antenna noise easily because it has a VHF-optimized preamp built in. Even that ageing mid-range rig has a choice of two different preamps (and a third dedicated to 2m). Of course it's still possible to work lots of weak DX on 6m using the standard K3 receiver; but in the limit, some QSOs will be lost that could have been completed with a more sensitive receiver. The K3 with a preamp is probably the best 6m receiver available; but this high-end rig should have included a competent 6m preamp and bypass relays on the original KVXV3 board, and not as a clumsy afterthought. -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
Hi all, Personally I wish Elecraft had resisted the temptation to include the 6m band in the K3. Grafting the 6m band, which is a VHF band, on to a HF transceiver will always be a compromise at best and at worst it might affect HF performance negatively. In my opinion ICOM made a good choice in their low end transceivers (IC-718, IC-7200) to eliminate 6m and FM mode. Both choices are generally unneeded by HF operators and both make good engineering optimizations possible for the mainstream HF modes. Knut - AB2TC W7GJ, Lance wrote: Julian, G4ILO wrote: I'm not saying that performance on six meters should have been higher than the performance on the HF bands. I'm saying that it should not be worse than an IC-756 PRO III, a TS-2000 or an FT-2000 would be, considering the claims made about the K3's performance. I have no idea of the proportion of K3 users who will never use 6 meters in any serious way. However I think there are quite a few, such as myself, who will have some fun on the band from time to time simply because modern HF transceivers now include it. I'm certainly not serious enough about 6m to spend money on a preamp for it, so I'm feeling a little short-changed after receiving information that the K3 is so deaf on 6m that you need one. The other radios mentioned above certainly are usable on 6m without a preamp by all but the most diehard enthusiast who would probably want it at the masthead anyway. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directoryhttp://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 Hello Julian, Yes, other HF/6m transceivers such as the IC756 and IC746 are also relatively insensitive when it comes to 6m. I understand the typical HF/6m transceiver has a front end noise figure in the neighborhood of 5 or 6 dB on 6m and some are much worse. Part of the tradeoff for handling strong signals on 20m I suppose. For most strong signal applications it makes little difference. Putting a low noise preamp such as the one offered by Elecraft ahead of your receiver typically will give you a dB or so more sensitivity, provided you have low loss feedline. If you are using lossy old RG8 or RG58 then you might as well not bother with a preamp because if there was a weak signal there at the antenna, it will be gone at your rig anyway. For strong signal openings who cares about a dB or two? For weak signal contacts from a quiet QTH, that can make all the difference. It is great to have a rig like the K3 where you have an option. GL and VY 73, Lance -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com - AB2TC - Knut -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/6M-Preamp-tp1366337p1370384.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
sorry, found it - thanks for the heads up - ordered mine to ship with KDVR3 - hell, no 6M until next May anyway! :-) 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book. -Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator and writer (106-43 BC) On 23 Oct 2008, at 01:22, Greg-N4CC wrote: The 6M preamp is now on the order page...just ordered mine... :-) 73 de Greg-N4CC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6M Preamp
David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: sorry, found it - thanks for the heads up - ordered mine to ship with KDVR3 - hell, no 6M until next May anyway! The 6m band often has great single and double hop E skip during late November and most of December here in the USA. My European 6m DX contacts were worked in mid December, but that was F2 propagation during the peak of the previous solar cycle (assuming that we're now into the new cycle). Gus Hansen KB0YH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp news?
Perhaps I am missing something; its 10/21 and I still can't find it? Is there a link we can get, or is it not up yet? Thanks and 73 de Dave, W5SV Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote: I'll be putting it up on the order page and on the main web page by Monday. We've released it to production and it will be shipping by mid next month. Eric _..._ Bob Tellefsen wrote: Does anyone know how the 6m preamp kit is coming along. Been a while since the field testers got theirs. I'd think it should be close by now. Anyone know? 73, Bob N6WG ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp news?
I'll be putting it up on the order page and on the main web page by Monday. We've released it to production and it will be shipping by mid next month. Eric _..._ Bob Tellefsen wrote: Does anyone know how the 6m preamp kit is coming along. Been a while since the field testers got theirs. I'd think it should be close by now. Anyone know? 73, Bob N6WG ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp news?
Hi Eric, I haven't monitored for a while. Is this something that is external to the K3? Is it a mast mount pre-amp with switching capabilities?? Please clue me in or point me to some info. Thanks, Stan W5EWA --- On Fri, 10/10/08, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp news? To: Bob Tellefsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Reflector Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 4:46 PM I'll be putting it up on the order page and on the main web page by Monday. We've released it to production and it will be shipping by mid next month. Eric _..._ Bob Tellefsen wrote: Does anyone know how the 6m preamp kit is coming along. Been a while since the field testers got theirs. I'd think it should be close by now. Anyone know? 73, Bob N6WG ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description??
I brought a 6m preamp kit from Down East Microwave. It cost only slightly more than if I had sourced the components in the UK. The end result means that now I can hear the K3 noise level increase when I add an antenna. 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:33:21 -0700, Jim Brown wrote: On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:32:42 -0700, Bob Tellefsen wrote: I've heard that there is a prototype 6m external preamp being tested. I bought an ARR preamp several years ago when I was living in Chicago. I patched it into the external antenna insert loop and it works well. 73, Jim K9YC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description??
Hi Jim, Been there with the PT2. It worked somewhat on 6M. It was quite useful on 10,12,15,17 and 20M as well. It seemed to have too high a noise figure and added significant noise on 6M. So it was doubtful that it would help me with the weak ones. I bought a Down East Microwave kit ($35). It is significantly better. It supposedly has too much gain (15-18 db) but I've not noticed this to be a problem. The nominal noise figure is under 1db so it doesn't seem to add noise. Of course, the best place would be at the antenna, but that isn't going to happen. Now to figure out how to switch in the PT2 for HF and LF RX antenna reception. 73 de Brian/K3KO Robert Tellefsen wrote: Thanks Jim I've heard good things about their products. Glad yours is working well. I'm going to try patching in my Ameco PT-2 preamp, just as an experiment. I'll probably go ahead and build my little J310 preamp though. 73, Bob N6WG - Original Message - From: Jim Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Reflector Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description?? On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:32:42 -0700, Bob Tellefsen wrote: I've heard that there is a prototype 6m external preamp being tested. I bought an ARR preamp several years ago when I was living in Chicago. I patched it into the external antenna insert loop and it works well. 73, Jim K9YC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/6m-preamp-description---tp536066p551078.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description??
Yesterday, I hooked up my old Ameco PT-2 preamp to the K3, and even that old dog made an improvement. There is a much more pronounced change in the noise level when connecting or removing the antenna now. Hope it helps in the CQ VHF contest this weekend. 73, Bob N6WG - Original Message - From: Stewart Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jim Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Reflector Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 1:46 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description?? I brought a 6m preamp kit from Down East Microwave. It cost only slightly more than if I had sourced the components in the UK. The end result means that now I can hear the K3 noise level increase when I add an antenna. 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:33:21 -0700, Jim Brown wrote: On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:32:42 -0700, Bob Tellefsen wrote: I've heard that there is a prototype 6m external preamp being tested. I bought an ARR preamp several years ago when I was living in Chicago. I patched it into the external antenna insert loop and it works well. 73, Jim K9YC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description??
I bought an ARR peamp for six. It has a bit too much gain, so I have a BNC 10 Db pad after it. You can get these attenuators on Ebay for $ 10 or so. I have the ARR preamp supported by a double male BNC barrel coming off the back of the K3 KXV3 panel. The attenuator/pad sits on the back of the preamp with a 12 bnc jumper back to the KXV3. Power comes from that handy RCA connector Elecraft put on the K3. Now the rig is real solid on six. And the even better news is that my K3 # 2 just arrived yesterday. This one will replace a TS-2000 at my six meter remote base. Currently, it's raining outside. Nuts, I can't do any yard work! tom bosscher K8TB ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description??
Thanks for the info, Tom. 73, Bob N6WG - Original Message - From: K8TB [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Elecraft Reflector' elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description?? I bought an ARR peamp for six. It has a bit too much gain, so I have a BNC 10 Db pad after it. You can get these attenuators on Ebay for $ 10 or so. I have the ARR preamp supported by a double male BNC barrel coming off the back of the K3 KXV3 panel. The attenuator/pad sits on the back of the preamp with a 12 bnc jumper back to the KXV3. Power comes from that handy RCA connector Elecraft put on the K3. Now the rig is real solid on six. And the even better news is that my K3 # 2 just arrived yesterday. This one will replace a TS-2000 at my six meter remote base. Currently, it's raining outside. Nuts, I can't do any yard work! tom bosscher K8TB ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description??
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 09:46:56 +0100, Stewart Baker wrote: I brought a 6m preamp kit from Down East Microwave. They are well respected in the US. It cost only slightly more than if I had sourced the components in the UK. Ah, the weak dollar! 73, Jim K9YC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description??
I'm ready for another holiday in the US next year, before the UK economy gets much weaker :-( 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:45:57 -0700, Jim Brown wrote: On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 09:46:56 +0100, Stewart Baker wrote: I brought a 6m preamp kit from Down East Microwave. They are well respected in the US. It cost only slightly more than if I had sourced the components in the UK. Ah, the weak dollar! 73, Jim K9YC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description??
Bob Tellefsen wrote: I've heard that there is a prototype 6m external preamp being tested. If so, can anyone give us a thumbnail description of this little unit? And how well does it seem to work? Thanks and 73 Bob N6WG ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com In addition to Bob's questions, I would be very interested in learning how to go about obtaining one ;-) My K3 is scheduled to arrive next month and I intend to use it almost exclusively for 6m, and primarily for 6m EME. It sounds like it would make sense to get a preamp for it if one is offered, but the order desk at Elecraft does not know about any options to improve the sensitivity of the unit on 6m. Otherwise, I will hook up my own external preamp with relays as I have in the past. VY 73, Lance -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description??
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:32:42 -0700, Bob Tellefsen wrote: I've heard that there is a prototype 6m external preamp being tested. I bought an ARR preamp several years ago when I was living in Chicago. I patched it into the external antenna insert loop and it works well. 73, Jim K9YC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description??
Thanks Jim I've heard good things about their products. Glad yours is working well. I'm going to try patching in my Ameco PT-2 preamp, just as an experiment. I'll probably go ahead and build my little J310 preamp though. 73, Bob N6WG - Original Message - From: Jim Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Reflector Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description?? On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:32:42 -0700, Bob Tellefsen wrote: I've heard that there is a prototype 6m external preamp being tested. I bought an ARR preamp several years ago when I was living in Chicago. I patched it into the external antenna insert loop and it works well. 73, Jim K9YC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description??
Bob Tellefsen wrote: Thanks Jim I've heard good things about their products. Glad yours is working well. I'm going to try patching in my Ameco PT-2 preamp, just as an experiment. I'll probably go ahead and build my little J310 preamp though. 73, Bob N6WG - Original Message - From: Jim Brown To: Reflector Elecraft Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 6m preamp description?? On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:32:42 -0700, Bob Tellefsen wrote: I've heard that there is a prototype 6m external preamp being tested. I bought an ARR preamp several years ago when I was living in Chicago. I patched it into the external antenna insert loop and it works well. 73, Jim K9YC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com I used to recommend LNA TECHNOLOGY as the best provider of 6m preamps, but since they have gone out of business, I have been pleased with the units provided by Hamtronics: http://www.hamtronics.com/lnk.htm Since the K3 provides a receive-only line for insertion of a preamp, a simple inexpensive preamp is all that is required to add sensitivity on 6m. GL and VY 73, Lance -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
