Re: [PSES] SCCR Rating Question
Starting on page 7, the white paper that Rich linked to also references UL 508A, supplement SB, which is a method of determining SCCR for industrial control panels without test. The method at a high level involves carrying over the SCCR rating of the "weakest link in the chain" from a protective component standpoint to the overall panel. I wonder if that method may have been used for the machinery in question, with a component level voltage rating (improperly, in my opinion) shifted over to the end device. Note that UL 508A includes "at a nominal voltage" in its definition of SCCR. On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 12:33 PM Richard Nute wrote: > > > Hi Brian: > > > > See the very last line of: > > > > > https://www.mouser.com/pdfDocs/littelfuse_industrial_whitepaper_increase_sccr.pdf > > > > Best regards, > > Rich > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Ralph McDiarmid > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 14, 2024 11:41 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] SCCR Rating Question > > > > Could this number to used to select a suitable circuit breaker and so the > interrupting voltage is an important parameter? > > > > The nameplate rating on the machine should be the information an > electrician needs during installation and selection of wire size and type. > > > > Ralph > > > > *From:* Brian Kunde > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 14, 2024 11:29 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* [PSES] SCCR Rating Question > > > > Greetings to all. > > > > I am new to SCCR ratings on industrial machinery. The ratings I have seen > sometimes has a "Maximum Voltage" included, such as; > > > > SCCR: 22kA, 600V Maximum > > > > Where does the voltage value come from? In one case, the machine had a > line voltage rating of "120/208 Vac", but the SCCR rating had a voltage > rating of "Max 600V". > > > > Can this be confusing? Might something think the machine can operate at > 600Vac? > > > > Thanks for any replies. > > The Other Brian > > > > > -- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ > <https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> > > Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ > Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> > List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net > Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ > <https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> > > Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ > Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> > List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net > Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ > > Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ > Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> > List ru
Re: [PSES] 61010-1 hazardous live classification
t; > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ > > Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ > Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> > List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net > Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1
Re: [PSES] American Vs. European 30 Ground Fault Leakage Current Standards
Internationally, this type of protection is provided by a Residual Current Device. Application note from Eaton here <https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/circuit-breakers/xeffect-rccb/eaton-rcd-application-guide-br019003en-en-us.pdf> that should be helpful. See IEC 61008-1 <https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/4264> and/or IEC 61009-1 <https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/4273>. On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 6:18 AM Ronan Shanley < 205e1cfd8f16-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote: > Thanks Richard, > > > > Looking UL-943 the voltage ranges outlined cap out at 120/240 VAC. Does > anyone know if GFCI standards for higher voltages like 400/230 VAC exist? > > > > Best, > > > > Ronan > > > > *From:* Richard Nute > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2023 3:18 PM > *To:* Ronan Shanley ; > EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* RE: [PSES] American Vs. European 30 Ground Fault Leakage > Current Standards > > > [EXTERNAL] > > > > Hi Ronan: > > > > GFEP North America: > > https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.GFEP130.pdf > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.eaton.com_us_en-2Dus_skuPage.GFEP130.pdf=DwMFAg=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=yG7zFfFYJf5TmIkJ-eeYmawQKncirVqCiwrZOGH86XpaIs8LlOYdSHyCznhhMWI6=8ip0moSdrMlLkpXo2MmAGhOi5RDgtEbZPYq5nYx_kSwBA2OmVYaXt-Qm9C2lzuMz=8IIZ9S0pF6IITwMnUaaWgwyJtLKJ27Bvob0ztcckfTs=> > > > > GFEP Europe: > > > https://library.e.abb.com/public/a9cd966c1794415d945b232fb2d7a9ee/1SXU430091L0201_GFEP_Info_Tool.pdf > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__library.e.abb.com_public_a9cd966c1794415d945b232fb2d7a9ee_1SXU430091L0201-5FGFEP-5FInfo-5FTool.pdf=DwMFAg=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=yG7zFfFYJf5TmIkJ-eeYmawQKncirVqCiwrZOGH86XpaIs8LlOYdSHyCznhhMWI6=8ip0moSdrMlLkpXo2MmAGhOi5RDgtEbZPYq5nYx_kSwBA2OmVYaXt-Qm9C2lzuMz=y7hxsn9vhqB90df2cx7Ga6KvC7gCX3RRQHiTnY9isGM=> > > > > According to: > > https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/gfci-vs-gfep.116424/ > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forums.mikeholt.com_threads_gfci-2Dvs-2Dgfep.116424_=DwMFAg=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=yG7zFfFYJf5TmIkJ-eeYmawQKncirVqCiwrZOGH86XpaIs8LlOYdSHyCznhhMWI6=8ip0moSdrMlLkpXo2MmAGhOi5RDgtEbZPYq5nYx_kSwBA2OmVYaXt-Qm9C2lzuMz=pJd0a4XsP_11t5dUduoxP0TMVMDQiHslgFW7p_lWeqk=> > > “GFCI and GFPE have different trip thresholds and GFPE is for protecting > equipment not humans.” > > > > Richard > > Bend, Oregon > > > > > > *From:* Ronan Shanley <205e1cfd8f16-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2023 11:37 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* [PSES] American Vs. European 30 Ground Fault Leakage Current > Standards > > > > Hello Experts, > > > > Does anyone know if a GFEP breaker, that meets the USA standards, will > meet the EU standard for human protection? If not, why is that? What is the > difference between the USA and EU standards? > > > > Best, > > > > *Ronan Shanley* > > Automation Engineer > SIO Electrical > > > > > > This message (including any attachments) may be confidential and > privileged communication to the intended addressee. If you are not the > intended addressee, you have received this message in error. In that case, > please permanently delete this message and notify us at > wrong-recipi...@alertinnovation.com so that we can avoid this > inconvenience in the future. Thank you. > -- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All > emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ > > Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ > Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> > List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net > Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussi
Re: [PSES] Reese’s Law (P.L. 117-171) - Has the CPSC's Section 2 rule been published?
4JrqHl_FVpxdOqkHDBo3f6BvwvAwIWGH8=jxGbTlpkT38P_OtOPygNDS86hYRvWfpo-ppR05jtzshovdEqRqxRHZVKdQDIFFOl=pMvAs__-UF6BxOLYU8rxfGo6Fxq-IQutBw_0uQzV4L0=> > [image: A close-up of a fire Description automatically generated with > low confidence] > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_Celestron=DwMFaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=x40qV4DM3u4JrqHl_FVpxdOqkHDBo3f6BvwvAwIWGH8=jxGbTlpkT38P_OtOPygNDS86hYRvWfpo-ppR05jtzshovdEqRqxRHZVKdQDIFFOl=qb36gjnzbtAdQP7Kk0KNYQBPtd63o9dYEPgL_-aA628=> > [image: A picture containing text, clipart Description automatically > generated] > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_celestron=DwMFaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=x40qV4DM3u4JrqHl_FVpxdOqkHDBo3f6BvwvAwIWGH8=jxGbTlpkT38P_OtOPygNDS86hYRvWfpo-ppR05jtzshovdEqRqxRHZVKdQDIFFOl=IRuu-YdFVYJRRzcnTAeLEpZ-bp4K0gSjK7N_7fg3IEU=> > [image: Icon Description automatically generated] > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_user_CelestronDotCom=DwMFaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=x40qV4DM3u4JrqHl_FVpxdOqkHDBo3f6BvwvAwIWGH8=jxGbTlpkT38P_OtOPygNDS86hYRvWfpo-ppR05jtzshovdEqRqxRHZVKdQDIFFOl=LWs6LaO76LlS5ywq8K9yWIQbad5Mcbqx3kBRmj0zwxk=> > [image: Icon Description automatically generated] > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linkedin.com_company_celestron-2Dllc-2D=DwMFaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=x40qV4DM3u4JrqHl_FVpxdOqkHDBo3f6BvwvAwIWGH8=jxGbTlpkT38P_OtOPygNDS86hYRvWfpo-ppR05jtzshovdEqRqxRHZVKdQDIFFOl=0GIkvptNr_PHZfqy_JoKXEdX_HqCUhuqPbr5GUL5nhw=> > > > -- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All > emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mail-2Darchive.com_emc-2Dpstc-40listserv.ieee.org_=DwQFaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=x40qV4DM3u4JrqHl_FVpxdOqkHDBo3f6BvwvAwIWGH8=jxGbTlpkT38P_OtOPygNDS86hYRvWfpo-ppR05jtzshovdEqRqxRHZVKdQDIFFOl=u2raHrcYKG00GHa-Lf9yO_L5Q7eVxk1EqwKhtBP-5XY=> > > Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ewh.ieee.org_soc_pses_=DwQFaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=x40qV4DM3u4JrqHl_FVpxdOqkHDBo3f6BvwvAwIWGH8=jxGbTlpkT38P_OtOPygNDS86hYRvWfpo-ppR05jtzshovdEqRqxRHZVKdQDIFFOl=LgEwogwEqjxmvpP5Nhuz6vQuifVzAhuzqkOLZMsGprA=> > Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ewh.ieee.org_soc_pses_list.html=DwQFaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=x40qV4DM3u4JrqHl_FVpxdOqkHDBo3f6BvwvAwIWGH8=jxGbTlpkT38P_OtOPygNDS86hYRvWfpo-ppR05jtzshovdEqRqxRHZVKdQDIFFOl=JErGurdXgTixv_lovL8fTYF99tf3DBwCNI4umC7sK9g=> > (including how to unsubscribe) > List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ewh.ieee.org_soc_pses_listrules.html=DwQFaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=x40qV4DM3u4JrqHl_FVpxdOqkHDBo3f6BvwvAwIWGH8=jxGbTlpkT38P_OtOPygNDS86hYRvWfpo-ppR05jtzshovdEqRqxRHZVKdQDIFFOl=X3ll0OZsMsYgjMAJ8gI3dKA3ql_TltnOPnpjPaeGiR0=> > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net > Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__listserv.ieee.org_cgi-2Dbin_wa-3FSUBED1-3DEMC-2DPSTC-26amp-3BA-3D1=DwQFaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=x40qV4DM3u4JrqHl_FVpxdOqkHDBo3f6BvwvAwIWGH8=jxGbTlpkT38P_OtOPygNDS86hYRvWfpo-ppR05jtzshovdEqRqxRHZVKdQDIFFOl=mTGELgQ2tma_JL0-AisfjOq8EfhLIz8yiDrPzuFcIi4=> > > Caution: This Message Originated Outside of the Company > > > -- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All > emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ > > Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ > Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> > List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net > Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > J
Re: [PSES] Clearances >30 kHz
Hi Ryan, Clarification at the end of 5.4.2.2 (before the tables) indicates that which table you use is dependent on the frequency of the associated circuit. The implication is that you could have some circuits use Table 10 and some circuits use Table 11. It seems appropriate to use Table 11 for the power supply working voltage. The key question here is whether temporary overvoltages associated with AC mains circuits have a frequency > 30 kHz or not and so also should use Table 11, or if Table 10 should be used. FWIW, here <https://code-authorities.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/40/2015/02/UL_WP_Final_Effects-of-High-Frequency-Voltage-Stress-on-Air-Insulation-and-Solid-Insulation_v4_HR.pdf> is a paper from UL from 2010 (so before IEC 62368-1 3rd Edition was published) that has an example based on the IEC 60664 series standards. You will notice that the example calculates clearances to withstand transient overvoltages separately from the clearances to withstand periodic voltages, taking the highest of the two as the final requirement. Though it doesn't address temporary overvoltages specifically, the example is interesting. On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 3:39 PM Ryan Jazz wrote: > Dear Members, > > Hope you can help me understand the requirement for the clearance needed > between the bottom PCB of power supply to metal chassis. > > Looking up UL 62368-1 Third Edition, and using the ‘Voltage up to an > including peak’ of *2000 V* for overvoltage category II Table 10 for *<30 > kHz*. > > I see the clearance is 1,27 mm. > > Going over to Table 11 *>30* kHz this clearance value jumps to 13,2 mm. > > Am I doing this correctly? Or should I be using the ‘working voltage’ of > the power supply, Primary to Earthed Dead Metal 392 Vpk, Primary to > Secondary 520 Vpk. > > 100-240 Vac, 100 W, *90 kHz* switching frequency, AC power supply with a > 2x3 inch footprint. > > End product is, overvoltage category II, pollution degree 2, material > group III. > > Indoor audio music processor, Class 1. > > All guidance would be appreciated. > > If this 13,2 mm value is indeed correct, I may need to use an insulator > under the power supply. > > Any recommendations for a UL rated insulator type? > > Thank you, > > Ryan Jazz > > Ryan Jayasinghe > > Regulatory Compliance Engineer > > rjayasin...@line6.com > > > > "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - > Aldous Huxley > > > > LINE6 > > 26580 Agoura Road > > Calabasas CA 91302 > > 818.575.3711 <(818)%20575-3711> > > line6.com > > ampeg.com > > > -- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All > emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ > > Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ > Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> > List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net > Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1
Re: [PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting
t; Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ > Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> > List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net > Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 <(650)%20253-1994> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1
Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates
https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 <(650)%20253-1994> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1
Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for safety
>> Jim Bacher >> David Heald >> -- >> >> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: >> https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 >> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential information. Please see >> https://meyersound.com/legal/#email-policy for our complete policy. >> - >> >> >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to >> emc-p...@ieee.org >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >> >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org >> David Heald dhe...@gmail.com >> -- >> >> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: >> https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 >> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1
Re: [PSES] Are Australia/New Zealand approvals needed for IEC 60320 Appliance Inlet ?
Be careful. Appliance connectors are AU Level 3 equipment <https://www.eess.gov.au/registration/registration-in-scope-electrical-equipment/level-3/>. You can find the full list in AS/NZS 4417.2 <https://www.standards.govt.nz/shop/asnzs-4417-22020/>. On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 9:27 AM Ryan Jazz wrote: > Hello List Members, > > An update that the NRTL withdrew their request for the “Australia/NZ” > approvals document for the appliance inlet > > The IEC certificate was acceptable. > > Sincerely, > > Ryan Jazz > > Ryan Jayasinghe > > Regulatory Compliance Engineer > > rjayasin...@line6.com > > > > "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - > Aldous Huxley > > > > LINE6 > > 26580 Agoura Road > > Calabasas CA 91302 > > line6.com > > ampeg.com > > > > *From:* Ryan Jazz > *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2023 1:36 PM > *To:* emc-p...@ieee.org > *Subject:* Are Australia/New Zealand approvals needed for IEC 60320 > Appliance Inlet ? > > > > Dear list members, > > We are trying to get a CB Report for our guitar amplifier from our local > NRTL. > > For the Australia/New Zealand deviations they are asking us to provide an > ‘Australia/NZ’ approval document for the appliance inlet. > > Is this a new requirement, I always thought Australia/New Zealand accepts > IEC approvals. > > If it is a new requirement does anyone know the regulation name or > standard number. > > Thank you, > > Sincerely, > > Ryan Jazz > > Ryan Jayasinghe > > Regulatory Compliance Engineer > > rjayasin...@line6.com > > > > "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - > Aldous Huxley > > > > LINE6 > > 26580 Agoura Road > > Calabasas CA 91302 > > line6.com > > ampeg.com > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1
Re: [PSES] Safety: 60335-1 conflicting clauses question - earthing (or not) of handles
> help. > > All the best > James > > James Pawson > Managing Director & EMC Problem Solver > > > *Office hours: * > > *My mornings are reserved for full attention on consultancy, testing, and > troubleshooting activities for our customers’ projects. I am otherwise > contactable between 1300h to 1730h from Monday to Friday. For inquiries, > bookings, and testing updates please send us an email on > he...@unit3compliance.co.uk <http://he...@unit3compliance.co.uk> > <mailto:he...@unit3compliance.co.uk > or call > 01274 911747. Our lead times for testing and consultancy are typically 4-5 > weeks. * > > * Unit 3 Compliance Ltd * > *EMC : Environmental & Vibration : Electrical Safety : CE & UKCA : > Consultancy * > www.unit3compliance.co.uk <http://www.unit3compliance.co.uk> | > ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk <mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk > > > +44(0)1274 911747 <+44%201274%20911747> | +44(0)7811 139957 > <+44%207811%20139957> > 2 Wellington Business Park, New Lane, Bradford, BD4 8AL > Registered in England and Wales # 10574298 > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1
Re: [PSES] e-Labeling
>From 4.5.1.4 of the 2022 Blue Guide <https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=OJ:C:2022:247:FULL=EN> (emphasis mine): Regulation (EC) No 765/2008 and Decision No 768/2008/EC lay down that the > CE marking must have the dimensions, format and proportions defined in > Annex II of Regulation (EC) No 765/2008 and be legible and clearly affixed. > Regulation (EC) No 765/2008 and Decision No 768/2008/EC do not forbid any > kind of design (e.g. ‘hollow’ design) as long as the above conditions are > respected. *However, electronic labelling only is not allowed.* On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 10:51 AM wrote: > Hi Peter, > > > > The below page indicates which labels exist: > > > https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/product-requirements/labels-markings/index_en.htm > > > > How do you affix the CE label: > > > > *The CE marking must be visible, legible and indelible.* > > *The CE marking must consist of the initials "CE", both letters should > have the same vertical dimension and be no smaller than 5mm (unless > specified differently in the relevant product requirements).* > > *If you wish to reduce or enlarge the CE marking on your product, you > should respect the proportions of the two letters. As long as the initials > remain visible, the CE marking can take different forms (for example > colour, solid or hollow).* > > *If the CE marking cannot be affixed to the product itself,** you can > affix it to the packaging if there is any, or to any accompanying > documents. If your product is subject to several EU directives/regulations > which require a CE marking to be affixed, the accompanying documents must > indicate that your product conforms to all applicable EU > directives/regulations.* > > > > So I guess e-labelling a product is not sufficient. Maybe there are other > opinions… > > > > Greetings, > > Bart > > > > *From:* 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org < > 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> > *Sent:* maandag april 2023 5:14 > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* [PSES] e-Labeling > > > > Hello group, > > > > Does anyone know if EU accepts e-Labeling for IT products? > > > > Thank you > > Peter > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1
Re: [PSES] Time zone? RE: [PSES] SI amendment providing UKCA label deadline extension.
I don't know, but would assume time zone local to BEIS. With regard to the legislation title, I don't know that either. I was planning on just checking the new legislation link. On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 1:52 PM wrote: > Scott, > > > > One more question…. 3pm in what time zone? > > > > Best Regards, > > -Lauren > > > > *From:* Scott Aldous <0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> > *Sent:* Monday, November 14, 2022 10:52 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] SI amendment providing UKCA label deadline > extension. > > > > You don't often get email from > 0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org. Learn why this is > important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> > > > > > > *External Email:* Do NOT reply, click on links, or open attachments > *unless* you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. If you > believe this email may be unsafe, please click on the “Report Phishing” > button on the top right of Outlook. > > > > Thanks, Scott, for sharing. Some additional information from the same BEIS > announcement I received through ITI > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.itic.org%2F=05%7C01%7CLauren.Crane%40lamresearch.com%7C6a523e3589c64411aa0c08dac6609bc3%7C918079dbc9024e29b22c9764410d0375%7C0%7C0%7C638040415495784422%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=6ao18QupeXdRfSf%2BQOyTh8qjbr%2By1u01CkP3QCUxOsM%3D=0>: > > > > > We expect the legislation to be laid later today. You will be able to find > it on legislation.gov.uk > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flegislation.gov.uk%2F=05%7C01%7CLauren.Crane%40lamresearch.com%7C6a523e3589c64411aa0c08dac6609bc3%7C918079dbc9024e29b22c9764410d0375%7C0%7C0%7C638040415495784422%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=YcpZNl3FJ%2F8CtGhcY4Cvw32pOneGv5GD8Es113E%2F4nI%3D=0> > . > > > > We are also hosting a webinar specifically for businesses and > intermediaries regarding these measures on *November 16 at 3pm* (you can > access it using this link > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.itic.org%2Fservlets%2FemailLink%3Fuuid%3Df8465fa6-332a-4150-b1d7-391715b4854a=05%7C01%7CLauren.Crane%40lamresearch.com%7C6a523e3589c64411aa0c08dac6609bc3%7C918079dbc9024e29b22c9764410d0375%7C0%7C0%7C638040415495784422%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=GBp7gHra9fvwzmUY3baFyNnpfW6AqVJb8%2FUMjfVQXf4%3D=0> > ). This is intended to help stakeholders understand the changes. Please > feel free to share this link with your networks. > > > > We have also published a news story > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.itic.org%2Fservlets%2FemailLink%3Fuuid%3Da8516fb7-a5f5-4da8-8122-515862f57d42=05%7C01%7CLauren.Crane%40lamresearch.com%7C6a523e3589c64411aa0c08dac6609bc3%7C918079dbc9024e29b22c9764410d0375%7C0%7C0%7C638040415495784422%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=dRADf0gKkZuZhTl%2FAaZnyQeNFxDV0CTssu28740yeBk%3D=0> > on GOV.UK > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgov.uk%2F=05%7C01%7CLauren.Crane%40lamresearch.com%7C6a523e3589c64411aa0c08dac6609bc3%7C918079dbc9024e29b22c9764410d0375%7C0%7C0%7C638040415496096874%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=dlO%2Bf2afx3z7xKRfDaFlgZOQsUIvNHYdw%2BSH9eqSw6k%3D=0> > and updated our guidance on GOV.UK > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgov.uk%2F=05%7C01%7CLauren.Crane%40lamresearch.com%7C6a523e3589c64411aa0c08dac6609bc3%7C918079dbc9024e29b22c9764410d0375%7C0%7C0%7C638040415496096874%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=dlO%2Bf2afx3z7xKRfDaFlgZOQsUIvNHYdw%2BSH9eqSw6k%3D=0> > : > > ·Using the UKCA marking > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.itic.org%2Fservlets%2FemailLink%3Fuuid%3D3728c05f-db3d-48d5-8a08-47899a73e09e=05%7C01%7CLauren.Crane%40lamresearch.com%7C6a523e3589c64411aa0c08dac6609bc3%7C918079dbc9024e29b22c9764410d0375%7C0%7C0%7C638040415496096874%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=yA43V2linaFyNd8eFFQlB%2F4ycDPBh2ZZBC2OOQMHZYc%3D=0> > > > ·Placing manufactured goods on the market in GB > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.itic.org%2Fservlets%2FemailLink%3Fuuid%
Re: [PSES] SI amendment providing UKCA label deadline extension.
Thanks, Scott, for sharing. Some additional information from the same BEIS announcement I received through ITI <https://www.itic.org/>: We expect the legislation to be laid later today. You will be able to find it on legislation.gov.uk. We are also hosting a webinar specifically for businesses and intermediaries regarding these measures on *November 16 at 3pm* (you can access it using this link <https://www.itic.org/servlets/emailLink?uuid=f8465fa6-332a-4150-b1d7-391715b4854a> ). This is intended to help stakeholders understand the changes. Please feel free to share this link with your networks. We have also published a news story <https://www.itic.org/servlets/emailLink?uuid=a8516fb7-a5f5-4da8-8122-515862f57d42> on GOV.UK <http://gov.uk/> and updated our guidance on GOV.UK <http://gov.uk/>: ·Using the UKCA marking <https://www.itic.org/servlets/emailLink?uuid=3728c05f-db3d-48d5-8a08-47899a73e09e> ·Placing manufactured goods on the market in GB <https://www.itic.org/servlets/emailLink?uuid=14162e61-121b-4014-8d4b-c59ec4645b5c> ·UK conformity assessment and documentation <https://www.itic.org/servlets/emailLink?uuid=ebec0d15-493c-43d9-aaac-9d9c6506b3d8> ·Roles and responsibilities <https://www.itic.org/servlets/emailLink?uuid=ce0eb152-1f08-49e8-af9f-22fe28df5974> On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 8:30 AM Scott Xe wrote: > Dear Scott & Lauren, > > Today, I received the following info to supplement the above development. > > *"Some news from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial > Strategy (BEIS):-* > > *HMG intends to introduce legislation to continue recognition of the CE > marking and reversed epsilon marking until 31 December 2024 for most goods > being placed on the market or put into service in Great Britain as part of > new ministers’ commitment to reduce burdens for industry.* > > *This package of measures is intended to provide businesses with more > flexibility and reduce burdens for businesses. We will use our regulatory > autonomy to help businesses navigate the current global economic and supply > chain challenges whilst prioritising growth. * > * In parallel, we will also consider how we could reduce costs and burdens > associated with the UK regulatory framework in the longer-term, including > opportunities under the Product Safety Review. * > > *We also intend to introduce legislation to give effect to the measures > previously announced in June 2022 with amended timescales, in line with the > extension. These measures intend to: * > > *• Reduce labelling costs by continuing to allow businesses to affix the > UKCA marking, and to include importer information for products from EEA > countries (and in some cases, Switzerland) on an accompanying document or a > label until 31 December 2027. * > > *• Reduce re-testing costs for UKCA certification by allowing conformity > assessment activities for CE marking undertaken by 31 December 2024 to be > used by manufacturers as the basis for UKCA marking, until the expiry of > the certificate or until 31 December 2027, whichever is sooner."* > > Cheers, > > Scott > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 at 05:55, Scott Aldous < > 0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote: > >> Hi Lauren, >> >> It's a good question. A draft amendment was published on 6 September to >> effect the extension, but the draft was withdrawn on 10 October, stating >> that "a new version will be published in due course". More information >> here >> <https://www.gov.uk/eu-withdrawal-act-2018-statutory-instruments/the-product-safety-and-metrology-amendment-regulations-2022> >> . >> >> ExVeritas published an article on this on 3 November (in the context of >> ATEX Directive but generally applicable). You can find that article here >> <https://www.exveritas.com/2022/11/03/proposed-ukca-ex-atex-legislation-changes-withdrawn/>. >> Unfortunately the article doesn't give much more information. >> >> On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 11:14 AM Lauren Crane < >> 1afd08519f18-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote: >> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> >>> >>> Among all the UKCA discussion I have not noticed information on whether >>> the promised no-label extension to 2026, though promised on government >>> websites, is actually in the works with hope of becoming law before Jan 1, >>> 2023. >>> >>> >>> >>> Does anyone have information on this point? >>> >>> >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> >>> -Lauren >>> >>> >>> >>> LAM RESEARCH CONFIDE
Re: [PSES] SI amendment providing UKCA label deadline extension.
Hi Lauren, It's a good question. A draft amendment was published on 6 September to effect the extension, but the draft was withdrawn on 10 October, stating that "a new version will be published in due course". More information here <https://www.gov.uk/eu-withdrawal-act-2018-statutory-instruments/the-product-safety-and-metrology-amendment-regulations-2022> . ExVeritas published an article on this on 3 November (in the context of ATEX Directive but generally applicable). You can find that article here <https://www.exveritas.com/2022/11/03/proposed-ukca-ex-atex-legislation-changes-withdrawn/>. Unfortunately the article doesn't give much more information. On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 11:14 AM Lauren Crane < 1afd08519f18-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote: > Hello All, > > > > Among all the UKCA discussion I have not noticed information on whether > the promised no-label extension to 2026, though promised on government > websites, is actually in the works with hope of becoming law before Jan 1, > 2023. > > > > Does anyone have information on this point? > > > > Best Regards, > > -Lauren > > > > LAM RESEARCH CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any > documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it, > (collectively, "E-mail Transmission") may be subject to one or more of the > following based on the associated sensitivity level: E-mail Transmission > (i) contains confidential information, (ii) is prohibited from distribution > outside of Lam, and/or (iii) is intended solely for and restricted to the > specified recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, or a person > responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the > information contained in or attached to this message is STRICTLY > PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please > immediately notify the sender and destroy the original transmission and its > attachments without reading them or saving them to disk. Thank you. > > Confidential – Limited Access and Use > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1
Re: [PSES] CE marking of a high voltage output supply for laboratory / industrial environmental use
You may find this article from UL helpful: https://code-authorities.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/40/2015/02/UL_WP_Final_Effects-of-High-Frequency-Voltage-Stress-on-Air-Insulation-and-Solid-Insulation_v4_HR.pdf On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 12:59 PM Gert Gremmen wrote: > Dear Bart, > > As the input is within the LVD limit, the whole equipment is. > > EN 61326-1 comes to mind for EMC > > EN 61010-1 for electrical safety > > The output is just a "circuit" (in terms of 61010) and clearance and > creepage requirement (up to 60 kV) are given in Table 6 and 7 > > There are more requirements than just clearance and creepage. > > Good luck in making your equipment safe. > > Gert Gremmen > > > On 18-8-2022 21:43, bart.de.gee...@telenet.be wrote: > > Dear experts, > > > > A client is looking for regulatory guidance to CE certify a high voltage > output supply (with regular AC mains 230V/50Hz input). > > The supply has an output voltage upto 25kV (upto 50kHz) output. It > concerns a supply to be used for plasma reactor applications. > > > > As the output voltage is not inside the voltage limits for the Low > Voltage Directive, the LVD directive is not applicable? > > The Machine Directive also excludes these high voltage products. > > > > So, wondering which Directive to apply related tot he safety testing > part. (The General Safety Product Directive?) > > Any suggestions as to which safety standard to apply for such products? > > > > Any suggestions are highly appreciated. > > > > Thanks ! > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > > -- > Independent Expert on CE marking > EMC Consultant > Electrical Safety Consultant > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- > > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1 > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1
Re: [PSES] Fuse designations
Hi Doug, As the link Rich provided from Littelfuse indicates, the international symbols come from IEC 60127-1. See the last page of this preview <https://www.sis.se/api/document/preview/568043/>, section 6.1. On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 2:22 PM Richard Nute wrote: > > > > > Here is some info: > > > > https://www.swe-check.com.au/pages/learn_fuse_markings.php > > > https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/files/littelfuse/technical-resources/documents/reference-documents/littelfuse_5x20mm-iec-fuse-cap-marking_guide.pdf > > > > Rich > > > > > > > > *From:* Brian Kunde > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 2, 2022 1:08 PM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Fuse designations > > > > I do not know where the information I have originally came from, but I got > this and have been using this for over 30 years: > > > > FF = Very Fast Acting > > F = Fast Acting (Common) > > M = Medium Time Lag > > T = Time Lag (Common) > > TT = Long Time Lag > > > > I got this from Bud Lang who was our Safety Guru at Heath Kit many years > ago. > > > > The Other Brian > > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 5:33 PM Douglas E Powell wrote: > > All, > > > > Over the years, I've seen various ways people include a caution or warning, > in their user documents or product labels, for replacement fuses. Similar > to: "replace only with same type and rating of fuse"; followed by a code: > T1.6AH250V. > And for those who may not understand the code, they may sometimes add in > parentheses some variant of "(1.6 Amp time-lag, ~250V, high breaking > capacity)". > > > So now to my question, US manufacturers sometimes use the phrase "SLO-BLO" > or "Slow Blow" instead of Time-Lag or Time-Delay. Are these terms commonly > used internationally and if so, are they clearly understood? > > > > I took some time to look up SLO-BLO and found it's a registered trademark > for Littelfuse going back to 1957, and it has been continuously renewed > since that time. > > > Incidentally, a German Engineer once told me the way he would designate a > fuse type for a variety of tripping characteristics was in this order from > very slow to very fast: TT1.0A250V, T1.0A250V, 1.0A250V, F1.0A250V, > FF1.0A250V. > > > > Thanks, -Doug > > > > > > Douglas E Powell > > Laporte, Colorado USA > > > > (UTC -07:00) Mountain Time (US-MST) > > > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] IEEE Xplore access
Hi Doug, My understanding is that the ISPCE proceedings are intended for registered attendees only. I imagine at least part of the reason is to encourage attendance at the conference. On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 2:03 PM Douglas E Powell wrote: > Well, at least the EMC society posts copies of their symposium CD-ROM on > the member website behind the login. > > Maybe we can get the others to do something similar. > > All the best, Doug > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 2:37 PM Richard Nute wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> I have the same problem. >> >> Rich >> >> Life Fellow >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Douglas E Powell >> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 15, 2021 12:58 PM >> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >> *Subject:* [PSES] IEEE Xplore access >> >> >> >> All, >> >> >> >> I have been an IEEE member for over 15 years and member of the EMC, PES, >> and PSES societies. >> >> >> >> When I visit the IEEE Xplore I find that many of conference proceedings >> have me locked out. For example, Symposium on Product Compliance >> Engineering (PSES) >> <https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/conhome/1001426/all-proceedings>. >> >> >> >> Being a paid-in-full member, shouldn't I be able to access all those >> papers? >> >> >> >> Thanks, -Doug >> >> >> >> >> >> Douglas E Powell >> >> Laporte, Colorado USA >> >> doug...@gmail.com >> >> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/coloradocomplianceguy/> >> >> - >> >> >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < >> emc-p...@ieee.org> >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >> >> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site >> at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in >> well-used formats), large files, etc. >> >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Scott Douglas >> Mike Cantwell >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher >> David Heald >> > > > -- > > -Doug > > Douglas E Powell > Laporte, Colorado USA > doug...@gmail.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Creepage and clearance requirements
primary and secondary > circuits, does it make any sense as long as the device has no cables and is > encapsulated by a plastic enclosure > > I understand that there should be some Creepage and clearance to withstand > OVC II (250V transient). > > > > Best regards Amund > > > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] [PSES] Over Reliance on Automated Safety Controls (Friday question)
earchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C49fe9945d84e4b210fee08d96ee34d5a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637662744821911039%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=8emj%2FA5kanRX0THrNK9zt4YyzTWSo3CvHGju9n5GHjU%3D=0> > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C49fe9945d84e4b210fee08d96ee34d5a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637662744821921028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=48xiITNQVzZHmpnVt31eEghav0MtPA5qUVpLWAw9TnM%3D=0> > can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C49fe9945d84e4b210fee08d96ee34d5a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637662744821921028%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=%2FfvNIYid%2BRiJros5TfrYID%2FFhX9qsqomBTVmFeq2eXo%3D=0> > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flist.html=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C49fe9945d84e4b210fee08d96ee34d5a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637662744821931021%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=kA9VTJ4bVDZqPqleG6kDbEYby%2Bwaad3XmI8fl5pnUvw%3D=0> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flistrules.html=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C49fe9945d84e4b210fee08d96ee34d5a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637662744821931021%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=gMzwjfSRmdw4p6mr%2B7CssmSSRMDFoEQJSF4UCKNgves%3D=0> > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Product for detecting missing earth connection
Hi James, I haven't looked into this product in detail, but I wonder if the Bender Linetraxx GM420 <https://www.benderinc.com/products/measuring-and-monitoring-relays/linetraxx_gm420> might do the trick. You might want to reach out to Bender directly to check if it or something else they offer would meet your needs. On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 7:22 AM James Pawson (U3C) < ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk> wrote: > Hello experts, > > > > Does anyone know of an off-the-shelf product for detecting the presence of > an Earth connection on an incoming AC supply? > > > > There are plenty of ways of detecting earth fault currents like RCDs and > GFCIs but I seem to be hitting a block finding something that explicitly > monitors the Earth connection. > > > > I’ve seen simple circuits that claim to do this, but primarily I’m looking > for an off the shelf item. > > > > If there’s one out there that controls a relay to switch the AC mains off > if the Earth is disconnected then I am super interested. > > > > Thanks in advance > > James > > > > > > James Pawson > > The EMC Problem Solver > > > > *Unit 3 Compliance Ltd* > > *EMC : Environmental : Safety : CE + UKCA : Consultancy* > > > > www.unit3compliance.co.uk | +44(0)1274 911747 <+44%201274%20911747> | > +44(0)7811 > 139957 <+44%207811%20139957> > > 2 Wellington Business Park, New Lane, Bradford, BD4 8AL > > Registered in England and Wales # 10574298 > > > > > -- > [image: AVG logo] <https://www.avg.com/internet-security> > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. > www.avg.com <https://www.avg.com/internet-security> > > <#m_5021860262550986653_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Overvoltage Categories (OVC) and "Reliable" Earthing - 62368-1 vs 60601-1
lent clause regarding overvoltage categories >and reliable earthing in EN 61010-1. >- Also, I cannot see anything in EN 62368-2 that explains this >decision. >- It looks like EN 62368-1 is a bit of an outlier in this respect. > > > > *Questions:* > >- Have I missed the clause in EN 61010-1 that covers this? (I’ve >looked carefully through Clause 6 and Annex K) >- Do any other safety standards share this reduction in OVC for PE >connected circuits? >- Have I understood the clauses in EN 62368-1 properly? >- I’ve seen (and subsequently unable to find again) a reference that >resistance to transient overvoltages is partly a reliability of equipment >issue. Are the writers of EN 62368-1 less concerned about reliability? ;-) > > > > As always, thanks in advance > > James > > > > > > > > James Pawson > > The EMC Problem Solver > > > > *Unit 3 Compliance Ltd* > > *EMC : Environmental : Safety : CE + UKCA : Consultancy* > > > > www.unit3compliance.co.uk | +44(0)1274 911747 <+44%201274%20911747> | > +44(0)7811 > 139957 <+44%207811%20139957> > > 2 Wellington Business Park, New Lane, Bradford, BD4 8AL > > Registered in England and Wales # 10574298 > > > > > -- > > [image: AVG logo] <https://www.avg.com/internet-security> > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. > www.avg.com <https://www.avg.com/internet-security> > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] NFPA Codes, law or not?
Hi Doug, The free viewer works great... if your goal is to comply with the letter of the law of providing free access while still attempting to maximize your revenue from sales of the docs. I hadn't heard about no more pdf version available from NFPA. Looks like they have a digital access version <https://catalog.nfpa.org/NFPA-LiNK-Individual-Plan-P21459.aspx>, which is a subscription service, and requires access to the internet to use. If a subscription will give you access to all the NFPA docs, that would be more interesting, but it doesn't look like this is the case. From this site <https://www.nfpa.org/NFPA-LiNK>: Q: What information and content will I be able to access with NFPA LiNK™? A: NFPA LiNK™ includes the four most recent editions of the *NEC*® (NFPA 70®) and NFPA 70E® (2021), *Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace®*, but you can expect to see codes and standards covering a variety of topics being added to NFPA LiNK™ on an ongoing basis. Eventually, NFPA LiNK™ will house additional NFPA codes and standards, expert commentary, visual aids, and more. With a subscription to NFPA LiNK™, you will have unlimited access to all of this! On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 1:44 PM Douglas Powell wrote: > Yes, > > This "free" version is what I was referring to about being very deficient > with regard to usability. The pages cannot be scaled and are in jpg format > only. To search for content you can only page through. You can find a > table of contents but chapter level is about as granular as it gets. These > codes are very expensive and I've been needing to research content of > several: NFPA 1, NFPA 2, NFPA 55, NFPA 70, NFPA 70E, NFPA 79, NFPA 497, and > NFPA 855. Using this "free viewer" is very painful when there are > potentially 1,800 pages of code to read. > > I've recently learned the NFPA is going away from purchased PDF and doing > hardcopy only, this is really going backward. > > Oh well, it's almost time for the weekend, so I'll tackle it again on > Monday, > > Best, Doug > > -- > Definition of EXPERT - ex·pert /ˈekˌspərt/ > > noun > a person who is a "*has been*" (ex-) and "*drip under pressure*" > (-spurt) > > Usage: "*a compliance engineering expert weenie*" > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 2:09 PM Scott Aldous > wrote: > >> FYI, the California version of the code is also available to view online >> for free: >> >> >> https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/codes-and-standards/free-access?mode=view >> >> There is a California Article 89 which is specific to the state of CA, >> and various amendments throughout, with amendments varying depending on the >> agency involved. There is a table before each article which gives a >> summary. Example: >> >> [image: image.png] >> >> On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 12:24 PM Douglas Powell >> wrote: >> >>> Rich, >>> >>> I knew about adoption policies and actually have a web monitor on >>> https://www.nfpa.org/NEC/NEC-adoption-and-use/NEC-adoption-maps so I >>> can capture any updates. I recommend reading the report "Falling behind on >>> electrical safety" . >>> >>> I suppose that when adopted by any locality into law, then those >>> portions may become publicly available. The NEC is on a three-year cycle >>> and the example I always think of is LA County & City. Even though the >>> State of Calif may at times be up to date, They are at least one edition >>> behind at all times. >>> >>> Being optimistically cautious in Colorado... >>> >>> Doug >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 11:47 AM Richard Nute wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Doug: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If I remember correctly, the intro to the NEC says that it is a model >>>> for adoption by various AHJs. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In Oregon, each edition of NFPA 70 is formally adopted with exceptions >>>> and additions. So, most of NFPA 70 is law. The amendments are freely >>>> available. Many other jurisdictions do the same. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2017 Oregon Electrical Specialty Code (OESC) >>>> <https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/codes-and-standards/free-access?mode=view=other=ORNEC2017> >>>> Effective Oct. 1, 2017 >>>> Based on the 2017 NFPA 70, National Elect
Re: [PSES] NFPA Codes, law or not?
FYI, the California version of the code is also available to view online for free: https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/codes-and-standards/free-access?mode=view There is a California Article 89 which is specific to the state of CA, and various amendments throughout, with amendments varying depending on the agency involved. There is a table before each article which gives a summary. Example: [image: image.png] On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 12:24 PM Douglas Powell wrote: > Rich, > > I knew about adoption policies and actually have a web monitor on > https://www.nfpa.org/NEC/NEC-adoption-and-use/NEC-adoption-maps so I can > capture any updates. I recommend reading the report "Falling behind on > electrical safety" . > > I suppose that when adopted by any locality into law, then those portions > may become publicly available. The NEC is on a three-year cycle and the > example I always think of is LA County & City. Even though the State of > Calif may at times be up to date, They are at least one edition behind at > all times. > > Being optimistically cautious in Colorado... > > Doug > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 11:47 AM Richard Nute wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> Hi Doug: >> >> >> >> If I remember correctly, the intro to the NEC says that it is a model for >> adoption by various AHJs. >> >> >> >> In Oregon, each edition of NFPA 70 is formally adopted with exceptions >> and additions. So, most of NFPA 70 is law. The amendments are freely >> available. Many other jurisdictions do the same. >> >> >> >> 2017 Oregon Electrical Specialty Code (OESC) >> <https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/codes-and-standards/free-access?mode=view=other=ORNEC2017> >> Effective Oct. 1, 2017 >> Based on the 2017 NFPA 70, National Electrical Code >> Oregon amendments to the 2017 NEC *Updated Oct. 2020* >> <https://www.oregon.gov/bcd/codes-stand/Documents/17oesc-table1-E-2020Oct.pdf> >> >> >> >> Stay safe! >> >> Rich >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Douglas Powell >> *Sent:* Friday, October 30, 2020 7:00 AM >> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >> *Subject:* [PSES] NFPA Codes, law or not? >> >> >> >> My Friday Question, >> >> >> >> NFPA Codes, law or not? Officially the answer is, "No, these are not >> laws." >> >> >> >> I recently saw a clarification stating: >> >> "*As a national consensus safety standard, NFPA 70 is not a law and it >> has not been incorporated into the Code of Federal Regulations. Therefore, >> compliance is not deemed mandatory. Even so, OSHA has cited NFPA 70 in >> cases where lack of compliance has resulted in a workplace accident*." >> >> >> >> The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) is a nonprofit >> organization and not a government entity. In the USA, possibly the best >> known published document is the NFPA 70 which is the National Electric Code >> or NEC ®. And indeed, this code has been translated and adopted in other >> countries in places like Latin America >> <https://www.nfpa.org/NEC/NEC-adoption-and-use/NEC-adoption-and-use-in-Latin-America>. >> Nevertheless, in my view, the whole system is bordering on becoming a >> legal requirement, especially at the local level where Authorities Having >> Jurisdiction (AHJs) adopt these into their local city and county codes. >> >> >> >> Occasionally a discussion is raised on electrical forums where someone >> wants to point out that in this country any code which is officially >> mandated law must be freely available for public use. NFPA does indeed >> offer a "free view" but these are very deficient with regard to usability. >> >> >> >> The question then becomes, "Should these codes be law? >> >> >> >> Food for thought... >> >> >> >> Doug >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Douglas E Powell >> >> doug...@gmail.com >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 >> > > > -- > > Douglas E Powell > > doug...@gmail.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived
Re: [PSES] Short Circuit Current Rating (SCCR)
The video gives a good overview, and refers to Supplement SB from UL 508A, which is a good resource. However, these are applicable to industrial control panels. It isn't clear that Brian's equipment would fall into that category. Assuming just industrial control equipment, would a short circuit test have to be performed to validate the rating? On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 8:38 AM Douglas Nix < 0bb8ff993b10-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote: > I did a little hunting for you and found this video that explains the > process pretty well: > > https://youtu.be/v7W0JAp-XBQ > > -- > Doug Nix > d...@mac.com > +1 (519) 729-5704 <(519)%20729-5704> > > "He who closes his ears to the views of others shows little confidence in > the integrity of his own views." -- W. Congreve > > On 30-Oct-20, at 09:54, Brian Kunde wrote: > > Greetings to all. I hope this finds you well. > > Once again the subject of SCCR has come up. I have struggled for years to > find a document or someone who can explain this to me. The bottom line is > I need to know how I would determine the SCCR for my product. In one case > in particular I am currently working on, it is a 3 phase motor-driven > industrial device. It draws less than 8 amps at 230V. Internal to the > device, we have three "CC" type fuses with a SCCR of 200KA. However, ahead > of that we have a lockout/tagout disconnect device that is only rated 10KA > SCCR. > > How exactly can I determine the SCCR of my device? > > Thank you all. > > The Other Brian > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] NFPA Codes, law or not?
I agree with Joe. Since jurisdictions across the US do not adopt the same revision of NFPA 70 <https://www.nema.org/docs/default-source/technical-document-library/nec-adoption-map.pdf>, mandating a single edition at the federal level could be problematic. On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 8:15 AM Joe Randolph wrote: > Hi Doug: > > > > The short answer is that compliance with NFPA 70 is, in fact, the law in > most states and localities. > > > > Most states have passed laws that require compliance with NFPA 70. In > these states, when the electrical inspector visits a site, the code book > used to determine compliance with the state’s electrical code is NFPA 70. > > > > I think the situation is similar to the ITU standards, which are > officially called “Recommendations” and do not, by themselves, have the > force of law. However, the laws in many countries call out certain ITU > standards. > > > > Similarly, UL standards in the USA are not, by themselves, legally > binding. However, many UL standards are called out by law by OSHA and in > state electrical codes (which typically call out NFPA 70). > > > > > > Joe Randolph > > Telecom Design Consultant > > Randolph Telecom, Inc. > > 781-721-2848 <(781)%20721-2848> (USA) > > j...@randolph-telecom.com > > http://www.randolph-telecom.com > > > > *From:* Douglas Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Friday, October 30, 2020 10:00 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* [PSES] NFPA Codes, law or not? > > > > My Friday Question, > > > > NFPA Codes, law or not? Officially the answer is, "No, these are not > laws." > > > > I recently saw a clarification stating: > > "*As a national consensus safety standard, NFPA 70 is not a law and it > has not been incorporated into the Code of Federal Regulations. Therefore, > compliance is not deemed mandatory. Even so, OSHA has cited NFPA 70 in > cases where lack of compliance has resulted in a workplace accident*." > > > > The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) is a nonprofit > organization and not a government entity. In the USA, possibly the best > known published document is the NFPA 70 which is the National Electric Code > or NEC ®. And indeed, this code has been translated and adopted in other > countries in places like Latin America > <https://www.nfpa.org/NEC/NEC-adoption-and-use/NEC-adoption-and-use-in-Latin-America>. > Nevertheless, in my view, the whole system is bordering on becoming a > legal requirement, especially at the local level where Authorities Having > Jurisdiction (AHJs) adopt these into their local city and county codes. > > > > Occasionally a discussion is raised on electrical forums where someone > wants to point out that in this country any code which is officially > mandated law must be freely available for public use. NFPA does indeed > offer a "free view" but these are very deficient with regard to usability. > > > > The question then becomes, "Should these codes be law? > > > > Food for thought... > > > > Doug > > > > -- > > > > Douglas E Powell > > doug...@gmail.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for grap
Re: [PSES] Electric Current Abroad
Hi Doug, Have you seen the list from worldstandards? It doesn't cover the phase configurations directly but does have a column for number of wires. https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/three-phase-electric-power/ On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 1:48 PM Douglas Powell wrote: > All, > > In the distant past I struggled to learn what were the expected electrical > voltage, frequency, and phase configurations (delta, wye, high-leg, etc) > for commercial/industrial facilities in various countries. I know about IEC > 60038 standard voltages, but standard voltages don't always represent real > life in specific locales. What I wanted was a good country-by-country > listing for three phase power. The source I most often used was " > http://www.ita.doc.gov/media/Publications/pdf/current2002FINAL.pdf;. A > 2002 reprint of the 1998 document, and now a broken link. After a generic > search of www.ita.doc.gov, It seems it is no longer available. > > Yes, I realize the information was getting old but finding no up to date > alternative, I searched elsewhere. And besides, It's not likely that such > things like this change rapidly. > > > Google Books: Link > <https://books.google.com/books?id=0hAdYfH_feQC=1_redir=1=Electric%20Current%20Abroad=PA1#v=onepage=Electric%20Current%20Abroad=false> > Wayback Machine: Link > <https://web.archive.org/web/20130423040219/http://www.ita.doc.gov/media/Publications/pdf/current2002FINAL.pdf> > > > > I seem to remember a place on the web with a database lookup. Does anyone > know of a comprehensive resource for three-phase power in this world? No > need to refer to orbital platforms, the moon, or other planets just yet. > > Thanks! Doug > > > -- > Douglas E Powell > doug...@gmail.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] UL840 and required clearances
Hi Boštjan, Note that clause 8 of the standard is relevant for controlled overvoltages. 8.7 states that the clearances from Table 8.1 are appropriate for circuits that are "protected for the rated impulse withstand voltage peak identified in Table 8.1. The switching test detailed in Section 12, Switching Test, should be conducted unless circuit analysis reveals that the appropriate protection is provided wherever Table 8.1 clearances are used." The switching test of clause 12 specifically mentions line and load terminals for measurements, but I think it is reasonable to apply this test to internal voltages as well. So in this case, I believe if there is doubt that the max peak voltages of the resonant circuit in question will never exceed 4.0kVpk, then the test should be performed to verify. As long as the peak voltages do not exceed that value, then it should be OK to use the clearance from the table. Also note that there are some shortcomings in this standard. It doesn't require the clearance values to be adjusted due to altitude (though altitude of the test location is considered in clause 7). It also does not have any requirement for Double or Reinforced Insulation. The values it presents as limits for clearance and creepage come from IEC 60664-1 for Basic Insulation. On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 12:43 AM Boštjan Glavič wrote: > Dear experts, > > > > I hope you can help me with determination of required clearances. > > > > Product is intended for connection to 3P 480V, 60Hz system, OVCIII. > > > > After Input EMI filter (with SPD) and rectifier, unit has a resonant > circuit which generates high voltages, up to 2300Vpk towards ground (PE). > > > > Main standard allowes as an alternative option to use UL840 for spacings. > > > > If I go to table 8.1 for required clearances, there in the heading of the > table I need to use only supply voltage (phase to ground voltage). So for > this particular case required clearance between resonant circuit and > internal heat sink connected to ground would be only 3,0mm (phase to ground > voltage is <300V). > > > > This table completely ignores measured working voltage. Am I on the right > track? > > > > I think this standard only considered impulse withstand voltage for > clearances. > > > > Required creepage distance is based on working voltage and this brings > high value, however this is not now the concern. > > > > Thank you for your support. > > > > Best regards > > Bostjan > > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 <(650)%20253-1994> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Risk Assessment question
; these values to identify level of risk. Commonly these parameters are > severity, frequency of exposure, and possibility of avoidance. Today the > use of FMEA goes far beyond design, manufacturing, and processes. > > > > Often times, a particular standard will say something like "*documents > that can be used as guidance for the safety analysis include...*" > followed by a short list of standards from IEC, EN, ISO, ANSI, MIL STD and > so on. Notable to me is the use of the word "can" or "may" which implies > the user has some leeway in selecting which document they prefer. > Additionally, further guidance is often given for "active" protection > devices and software/firmware controls for safety function (i.e. safety > integrity levels and performance levels). Once again, using the methodology > of FMEA as a way of assigning risk levels. > > > > So after all that, here is my question. Given wide-ranging product types > and use models, the long list of risk assessment standards, has anyone > produced a comprehensive list or matrix correlating products to applicable > standards? I believe a list such as this would be very helpful. > > > > Stay safe and stay frosty all, > > > > Doug > > > > -- > > > > Douglas E Powell > > Laporte, Colorado USA > > doug...@gmail.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 > > > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] UL Listed Fuse vs Recognized
l to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] 62368-1 Section 6.4.8 Flammability Confusion
Hi Carl, The 2 tests have different purposes, as explained in the -2 rationale doc. I think it's difficult to definitively state that either the S.1 test or the S.2 test is more stringent than the other. Note that the pass/fail criteria are different for the 2 tests, with only S.2 requiring that no additional holes develop. Note that a fire enclosure that does not meet PIS separation requirements of 6.4.8.4 would have to comply with both S.1 and S.2, be rated V-1 and comply with S.2, or be rated V-0 or better (no additional test). On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 11:46 AM John Woodgate wrote: > This is the sort of thing that can easily happen in a huge document. It is > extremely difficult, especially where there is a chain of forward and back > cross references, and text pushed off from its primary context to multiple > annexes, to ensure internal consistency. > Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk Rayleigh, > Essex UK MAY THE VIRUS NOT BE WITH YOU > On 2020-05-06 18:35, Carl Newton wrote: > > I'm wondering if any list members can explain the rationale behind > 62368-1, in sections 6.4.8.2.2 and 6.8.8.4. I'm looking at the 2014 > edition. > > Clause 6.4.6, Control of fire spread in a PS3 circuit, states that, "*Fire > spread in PS3 circuits shall be controlled by applying all of the following > supplementary safeguards*:". In that clause it includes, "*by providing > a fire enclosure as specified in 6.4.8.*" > > Clause 6.4.8.2.2, * Requirements for a fire enclosure*, states "*For > circuits where the available power does not exceed 4 000 W (see 6.4.1), a > fire enclosure shall comply with the requirements of Clause S.1.*" That > clause then goes on to say that V-1 is acceptable > > Clause (6.4.8.4) is addressing "Separation of a PIS from a fire enclosure > and a fire barrier" and is only requiring the application of the S.2 flame > test, which I believe is less demanding in that only a 60 s flame is > applied rather than three steps up to 120 s for the S.1 test method. > Clause 6.4.8.4 then goes on to state that a V-0 material is excluded from > the requirement. So unless I'm mistaken, this clause 6.4.8.4 (which > addresses separation) is requiring a lesser flame requirement than S.1, yet > goes on to exclude V-0, but not V-1. > > I don't see the rationale. I must be missing something here. The most > fundamental question in my mind here is why does 6.8.8.4 allow the S.2 test > method? > > Thanks, > > Carl > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, sen
Re: [PSES] Intertek website issue
Hi Doug, You can contact them to raise it to their attention. From the page: Contact UsETL listed products that are in doubt or for products that do not appear in the directory, please request a verification of certification. Americas+1-888-347-5478 (or +1-847-660-7407) Email etldirect...@intertek.com On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 7:48 AM Douglas Powell wrote: > FYI, > > In trying to access the Intertek Certifications database, I ran into a > problem. On the web page https://www.intertek.com/directories/, I clicked > into ETL Listed Mark Directory > <http://etlwhidirectory.etlsemko.com/WebClients/ITS/DLP/products.nsf/$$Search?OpenForm> > and > the error popped up. It appears several links on that web page have issues. > I have been unsuccessful in locating a reference to contact the webmaster. > > The problem seems to be an expired certificate, ironic as this web page is > all about certificates of one sort or another... > > NET::ERR_CERT_DATE_INVALID > Subject: *.intertekconnect.com > Issuer: DigiCert SHA2 High Assurance Server CA > Expires on: Mar 25, 2020 > Current date: Mar 25, 2020 > > > I'll give it a day or two, but until then this is rather inconvenient. > > Thanks! Doug > > > -- > > Douglas E Powell > Laporte, Colorado USA > doug...@gmail.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] HV relay
Hi Boštjan, I've worked with this type of relay in the past. Distance between contacts in the vacuum is unlikely to meet standard clearance requirements if you are relying on the contact gap for safety isolation. Presumably the reason for the vacuum in the first place is to provide very low pressure in order to take advantage of the low end of Paschen's curve (see Paschen's law <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law> from Wikipedia), so smaller clearances can be used without breakdown. IEC 62368-1, Annex K (for safety interlocks) has some requirements that might be useful, but the 3rd edition is clearer than 2nd. See K.7.1 from 3rd edition. There is an allowance for the contact gap to be evaluated by electric strength test rather than the separation requirements outlined in a), b) or c), as well as some other clauses that must be applied including endurance test. Note that reed switches tend to fail closed as the contacts can stick, so some type of periodic functional check or other detection method is advisable. Also, the standard doesn't address reliability of the vacuum integrity over the life of the relay other than by application of the endurance test. On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 7:22 AM Boštjan Glavič wrote: > Dear experts, > > > > Is anyone familiar with requirements for HV relay in vacuum? Are > clearances and creepage distances between contacts applicable for such > relay? > > > > Thank you for your support. > > > > Best regards, > > BOštjan > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] classification of the output
ist.html> > > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Scott Douglas > > Mike Cantwell > > > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Jim Bacher > > David Heald > > > > - > > > > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > > emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your > > e-mail to > > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities > > site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for > > graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. > > > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Scott Douglas > > Mike Cantwell > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Jim Bacher > > David Heald > > > > - > > > > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > > emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your > > e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> > > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities > > site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for > > graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. > > > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > > unsubscribe) > > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> > > Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> > > David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: > David Heald: > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel
s, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] [BULK] [PSES] Economical operator name & postal address on EEEproducts
r policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Cable Flammability Standard Comparison
Hi James, The note that Rich referenced is found in the 3rd edition of IEC 62368-1. It was not present in 2nd edition but has been added to address the problem you described (as well as the text "or the equivalent" to the body of 6.5.1). More information here <https://62368-ul-solutions.com/engineers/clause-6-of-iec-62368-1-flammability-requirements/> . There is no EN equivalent of IEC 62368-1 3rd edition <https://www.cenelec.eu/dyn/www/f?p=104:110:885545800959701FSP_ORG_ID,FSP_PROJECT,FSP_LANG_ID:1257189,67625,25> yet. On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 11:20 AM Richard Nute wrote: > > > > > Hello James: > > > > I can’t point you to reading material, but I can point you to IEC 62368-1, > sub-clause 6.5.1: > > > > NOTE Wire complying with UL 2556 VW-1 is considered to comply with these > requirements. > > > > Also, IEC 62368-2, sub-clause 6.5.1: > > > > Rationale: > > > > Wiring flammability proposals have now been included for all wiring > (external and internal). > > > > Compliance with IEC 60332-1-2 for large wires and IEC 60332-2-2 for small > wires has historically proven adequate for *mains *wiring. These > documents include their own material flammability requirements. > > > > The requirements of IEC/TS 60695-11-21 are also considered adequate given > that the flame spread requirements for vertical testing are more onerous > than the IEC 60332 series of documents. > > > > The compliance criteria are based on application of the above test > methods. These are consistent with international wiring standards. National > standards may have more onerous requirements. > > > > > > Best wishes for the New Year! > > Rich > > > > > > *From:* James Pawson (U3C) > *Sent:* Monday, January 7, 2019 7:55 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* [PSES] Cable Flammability Standard Comparison > > > > Hello all, > > > > Happy new year folks, I hope 2019 brings health and happiness to you all. > > > > I’m trying to gain a better understanding of cable flammability standards. > > > > Safety standard EN 62368-1 states that, for PS2 and PS3 circuits, wire > insulation flammability should meet the requirements of [ IEC 60332-1-2 and > IEC 60332-1-3 ] or IEC/TS 60695-11-21. > > > > I don’t have a copy of 60695-11-21 but have read that it uses a 500W > flame. Does anyone have a feeling or understanding for the equivalence > between 60695-11-21 and the UL 1581 test for VW-1 rating of cables? > > > > I ask because I don’t see many cables with a 60332-1 or 60695-11-21 rating > but lots with a VW-1 rating, for instance on PC ATX power supplies, the > outputs of which are definitely PS2 and PS3 circuits. > > > > If someone could point me towards some further reading material on the > subject that would be appreciated. > > All the best > > James > > > > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] My update and tracking services
Thanks, Doug! A few others related to recalls: - Canada recalls: http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/index-eng.php - EU RAPEX Alert Search: https://ec.europa.eu/consumers/consumers_safety/safety_products/rapex/alerts/?event=main.search - METI (Japan) Product Safety Page, includes recall notifications: http://www.meti.go.jp/english/policy/economy/consumer/index.html - ACCC Recall Page (Australia): https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recalls On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:35 AM Doug Powell wrote: > All, > > I thought I would share a list of URLs I monitor for Update Services and > Product Alerts. Obviously this list is not comprehensive and some require > you to have a subscription. One category I would like to locate is a > centralized information outlet for counterfeit components and products. > For many on the list, I use a tool called Distil Web Monitor, available as > an add-in for both Firefox and Chrome browsers (https://distill.io/). It > has some nice features for filtering and monitoring periods. In the case of > RSS, I use Distil to notify me and then use my RSS reader. For web pages > Distil cannot interpret, I set up a reminder to check manually. If anyone > has other resources to help out in the day-to-day of compliance > engineering, I hope you are willing to share. > > *Update Services:* > >- IEC Just Published https://webstore.iec.ch/justpublished >- IEC Just Published (RSS) >https://rss.iec.ch/Webstore/IECCata.nsf/wsrssfeed.rss?OpenPage >- Interference-Causing Equipment (Canada) >http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/h_sf06127.html >- Intertek SUN http://www.intertek.com/standards-updates/ >- Punto Focal (Argentina) >http://www.puntofocal.gov.ar/formularios/ultimas_notif.php >- Radio Equipment (Canada) >http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/h_sf06128.html >- Technical Barriers to Trade (WTO) >https://tsapps.nist.gov/notifyus/data/home/home.cfm >- Techstreet Tracking >https://www.techstreet.com/account/tracked_products >- Travel Alerts (USA) > > https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html >- UL Updates (RSS) >https://rss.iec.ch/Webstore/IECCata.nsf/wsrssfeed.rss?OpenPage > > *Product Alerts, Notices & Recalls:* > >- CPSC Recalls https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls >- CPSC Recalls (RSS) >https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/CPSC-RSS-Feed/Recalls-RSS >- CSA Group > > https://www.csagroup.org/services-industries/marks-labels/brand-protection/product-alerts-recalls/ >- ESA Recalls (Canada) >https://www.esasafe.com/electricalproducts/recalls-and-alerts >- ESA Safety Alerts (Canada) >https://www.esasafe.com/contractors/safety-alerts >- ESA Flash Notices (Canada) >https://www.esasafe.com/contractors/flash-notices >- Export Controlled or Sanctioned > > https://doresearch.stanford.edu/research-scholarship/export-controls/export-controlled-or-sanctioned-countries-entities-and-persons >- FM Approvals >https://www.fmapprovals.com/product-alerts-and-news-events/product-alerts >- Intertek http://www.intertek.com/public-notices/ >- UL Notices & Recalls https://www.ul.com/newsroom/publicnotices/ >- Conflict Minerals >https://www.gleif.org/en/lei-data/global-lei-index/lei-search# > > > All the best, Doug > > -- > > Douglas E Powell > > doug...@gmail.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society em
Re: [PSES] Rechargeable li-ion batteries in toys for infants...
With regard to your first query, if you plan to ship this product to the US market, you will need to comply with ASTM F963 <https://www.cpsc.gov/Business--Manufacturing/Business-Education/Toy-Safety/ASTM-F-963-Chart> also. Clause 4.25 has specific requirements for battery operated toys. Even if not applicable, taking a look may be worthwhile. On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 8:00 AM Schmidt, Mark wrote: > Matt, > > > > I think your problem will be that the POD is removable which then makes it > user accessible when washing or otherwise. End user will have access to > pins/connector to charge the battery. I am note a toy expert but If the > charger is shipped with the toy product then it is intended to be used with > the toy - what is Note 3 in section 1 (scope) of EN62115. > > > > Mark > Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information. If > you are not the intended recipient, please notify us by email by replying > to the sender and delete this message. The sender disclaims that the > content of this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the acceptance > of, any agreement; provided that the foregoing does not invalidate the > binding effect of any digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual > signature that is included in any attachment. > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] LVD votlage scope query
Hi Regan, See the LVD guidelines <http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/20341>, section 6. From the guide: "The Directive applies to all electrical equipment 8 designed for use with a voltage rating of between 50 and 1000 V for alternating current and between 75 and 1500 V for direct current. Voltage ratings refer to the voltage of the electrical input or output, not to voltages that may appear inside the equipment. Following discussions with Member States, the Commission has taken the position that the term “designed for use with a voltage range” shall be understood as equipment having either a rated input voltage or a rated output voltage inside this voltage range. Internally there may be higher voltages. For products with multiple voltage ratings, input or output, the products are considered within the scope of this Directive as soon as one of the ratings fall within the given voltage rating." On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:45 PM Regan Arndt wrote: > Hi folks. > > It's been a while since I went on the europa website and I just saw this > (never noticed it before). The general europa webpage section of the LVD > has bolded the text " *input* *or* *output voltage* ". More > interestingly, the conjunction ‘*or*’. Some could now argue that their HV > power supply (120/240 VAC input, >1500 V output) or ESD test equipment > (4KV+), etc. is exempt from the LVD because they think they have an option > due to the interpretation (or misinterpretation) of the word 'OR'. > (Yes, I have already seen cases like this) …….perhaps the website should > have stated “*and/or*” rather than just “*or*” or word it differently. > Again, the key point here is the word 'or'. > > Also, when I was at the PSES symposium this year in San Jose, I asked a > similar question related to this and some seemed to think that this was > ‘input’ voltage only. > > Your comments, opinions & advice on this topic are greatly appreciated. > > Below are the excerpts: > > About the Low Voltage Directive (LVD) > > The LVD covers health and safety risks on electrical equipment operating > with an *input* *or* *output voltage* of between: > > ·50 and 1000 V for alternating current > > ·75 and 1500 V for direct current > > Excerpt obtained from: > http://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/lvd-directive_en > > > The directive itself does not specifically call out input or output per > se. It only states ‘rating’. > > *Chapter 1, Article 1:* > > *This Directive shall apply to electrical equipment designed for use with > a voltage rating of between 50 and 1 000 V for alternating current and > between 75 and 1 500 V for direct current, other than the equipment and > phenomena listed in Annex II.* > > > > Excerpt from the Directive obtained from: > https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32014L0035 > > > Regan Arndt > IEEE PSES SCV Chair > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Messages Not Getting Through
I got at least 2 of them, including this one. On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 8:10 PM Scott Douglas wrote: > This is my third attempt at getting a message through to the list. > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Safety Test Templates Question
Yes. And no. On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 11:52 AM Ted Eckert < 07cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> wrote: > Does the testing involve Schroedinger’s cat? > > > > Ted Eckert > > Microsoft Corporation > > > > The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of > my employer. > > > > *From:* Kevin J Harris > *Sent:* Thursday, August 2, 2018 10:06 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* [PSES] Safety Test Templates Question > > > > Hello > > > > On test templates from several laboratories I have noticed where they > indicate whether or not a particular test was successful or not, that there > is an arrangement of text such as this > > > > Conforms:Y □N □ > > Non-Conforms: Y □N □ > > > > Is there a technical or legal reason behind this sort of double statement? > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Kevin > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C6c46e43617ba4308b8b108d5f89c5c29%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636688272809178981=McEWb4ckaMoySL9wDgTIPtQnsIJjPiMgpPm2QYaF0rE%3D=0> > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C6c46e43617ba4308b8b108d5f89c5c29%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636688272809178981=YNhdj%2B8J8WpawXIJK6j33NKRLFHvp01FlOvkPupsufU%3D=0> > can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C6c46e43617ba4308b8b108d5f89c5c29%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636688272809178981=HGyMEMuMf6g3qIWg8OWHqpeSIrbmNpymkYvIO5Mz3VM%3D=0> > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flist.html=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C6c46e43617ba4308b8b108d5f89c5c29%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636688272809178981=%2FSCB6vfA7eta8qslJ1kjKYreMqcwc%2FnXEIj4w3v26sc%3D=0> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flistrules.html=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C6c46e43617ba4308b8b108d5f89c5c29%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636688272809335249=js7Uvx%2BrFLpooa91%2B5ntZcENucnQuK55Lx1%2BmfgaAsc%3D=0> > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IE
Re: [PSES] Short Circuit Rating of a machine
Hi Eunice, This article <https://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2015/06/08/electrical-equipment-rating-requirement/> may be helpful. It discusses the relevant requirement from the Canadian Electrical code (CSA C22.1). The article refers to the 2015 edition of the code, but I assume that the same requirement exists in the 2018 edition. On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 8:47 AM Eunice Yang < eunicey...@cem-international.co.uk> wrote: > Dear Colleagues > > Any who know the Canadian ESA inspection requirements on “short circuit > rating” of a plastic injection moulding machine. Is there any limits for > RMS > symmetrical amps and the max of VOLTS? How this information shall be > presented? > > Eunice > CEM International > e-mail: eunicey...@cem-international.co.uk > > This message is intended only for the use of the person(s) (\"Intended > Recipient\") to whom it is addressed. It may contain information, which is > privileged and confidential. Accordingly any dissemination, distribution, > copying or other use of this message or any of its content by any person > other than the Intended Recipient may constitute a breach of civil or > criminal law and is strictly prohibited. If you are not the Intended > Recipient, please contact the sender as soon as possible. > > Tel: +44 (0)1252 547721, www.cem-international.co.uk Registered Office: > Westmead House Farnborough Hampshire, GU14 7LP. Registered in England No: > 4513974. Notified Body Number 1942 for EU Directives 2000/14/EC, > 2006/42/EC, > 2009/42/EC, 2014/30/EU, 2014/53/EU, 2014/68/EU and Regulation (EU) > 305/2011. > > > > -Original Message- > From: T.Sato > Sent: 24 July 2018 14:45 > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: Re: [PSES] Dips and interruptions when connected to UPS > > On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:35:57 +0200, > Amund Westin wrote: > > > If a device is permanent connected to an uninterruptible power supply > > (UPS) via its AC input port, can the Voltage dips and interruption > > test be omitted? It could sound like a possibility, but maybe it > > depends on the UPS performance. > > > > Any experiences? > > Depends to the type of UPS, UPS may have transfer time of order of ms or > tens of ms, which means the equipment powered through a UPS may still > experience short dip or interruption. > > If specific UPS will be used, maybe it is possible to test the equipment > with the UPS. > > Regards, > Tom > > -- > Tomonori Sato > URL: http://t-sato.in.coocan.jp > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: > David Heald: > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: > David Heald: > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.htm
Re: [PSES] EMC tests called up in Safety standards
n them like this one does? This is the first one I’ve come >across where this is the case but I’m not very familiar with safety >standards in general. > > > > Thanks and all the best, > > James > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] insulation between SELV and protective earthed accessible part- IEC 62052-31
istance for > basic insulation from Table 9 is 3,2 mm, but the creepage distance for > functional insulationfrom Table 14 is 4,0 mm. > > 2)Connections to the protective conductor shall comply with > 6.5.2.4. Otherwise, this shall be considered to be an unearthed circuit. > > 3)There shall be at least basic insulation between HLV > non-mains circuits and HLV mains circuits. > > 4)Insulation between an unearthed non-mains circuit at > hazardous voltage and an unearthed accessible conductive part shall satisfy > the more onerous of the following: > > - double/reinforced insulation, the working voltage of which is > equal to the hazardous voltage; or > > - supplementary insulation, the working voltage of which is equal > to the voltage between the non-mains circuit athazardous voltage; and > > · another non-mains circuit at hazardous voltage; or > > · a mains circuit. > > 5)See Annex Bfor the conditional use of basic insulation for > PEB. > > 6)Supplementary or basic insulation shall be used if one of > the circuits is an independent circuit or is adjacent to a conductive part > which may be earthed when the equipment is installed. > > 7)A functional earthed circuit shall be treated as an > unearthed accessible part. The exception is where the functional earth is > bonded to the protective conductor and this meets the relevant > requirements, then it may be treated as an earthed accessible part. > > 8)For a PELV system earthed at one end of a cable run, it > would be permissible to connect a SELV system at the other end. > > NOTEReference is made to the respective tables specifying clearances > and creepage distances. > > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are for the sole use of the > intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies and the original message. Any > unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, forwarding, printing > or copying of this email or any action taken in reliance on this e-mail is > strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. The recipient acknowledges that > Ymllabs.com or its subsidiaries and associated companies (collectively " > Ymllabs.com "),are unable to exercise control or ensure or guarantee the > integrity of/over the contents of the information contained in e-mail > transmissions and further acknowledges that any views expressed in this > message are those of the individual sender and no binding nature of the > message shall be implied or assumed unless the sender does so expressly > with due authority of Ymllabs.com. Before opening any attachments please > check them for viruses and defects. In case you have any problem or issue > with the E-mails from YMLLABS.com, Please do lets us know on > netad...@ymllabs.com Ymllabs.com Udaipur- Rajasthan -313001 > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] IATA/ICAO and U 83.3 rules
8589bcd847f1c277%7C1%7C0%7C636525099150703187=9e30o6ffwiJrOFQm%2FXcta59F2vhGfJGKqr6wViqmQII%3D=0> > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] EN60825-1 Date of Withdrawal
Hi Monrad, According to the CENELEC project page <https://www.cenelec.eu/dyn/www/f?p=104:110:1085402520156601FSP_ORG_ID,FSP_PROJECT,FSP_LANG_ID:1257167,55314,25>, the DOW is 19 June 2019. I would guess that at some point a date will be published in the OJ that is with this one, but would love to hear from others on this list more in the know than I. On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 4:43 PM, Monrad Monsen <monrad.mon...@oracle.com> wrote: > When will EN60825-1:2014 become exclusive harmonized standard for safety > of laser products in Europe? > > > > In the EU published the harmonized standards listing for the Low Voltage > Directive 2006/95/EC on 8 April 2016, the EN60825-1:2014 appeared in the > listing alone with a date of withdrawal of 19 June 2017. But then a new > harmonized standards listing was published on 8 September 2017 for the > recast Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU, and it lists two revisions of the > EN60825-1 (one revision dated 2007 and the other 2014). This time, there > is no date of withdrawal for conflicting superseded standard published for > EN60825-1:2014. As a result, it appears that a manufacturer can continue > to use either revision of the standard forever. > > > > Am I correct that a manufacturer can choose either EN60825-1:2007 or > EN60825-1:2014 to support compliance with the Low Voltage Directive > 2014/35/EU … seemingly forever? Has EU expressed any intent to eventually > mandate transitioning to EN60825-1:2014? > > > Thanks. > > > > Monrad Monsen > > > > NOTE: All opinions expressed in this email are wholly my own and are not > necessarily those of any company I work for. > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] short range device alternate suppliers and labeling
ISED does have a similar allowance. Details: http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/ceb-bhst.nsf/eng/tt00099.html On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Peter Tarver <ptar...@enphaseenergy.com> wrote: > My thanks to all for their input. > > I chanced on some interesting reading yesterday in Federal Register / Vol. > 82, No. 211 / Thursday, November 2, 2017 / Rules and Regulations. In this > document, there are some exceptions to physical labeling where an > electronic display of the required information is allowed, if certain > guidelines are followed. > > This is a particularly attractive method to convey the required > information and a potentially excellent method to address my concerns in > this thread. > > Has anyone used this method that can identify any foibles and pitfalls? Is > a similar (or the same) approach accepted by IC? > > > Regards, > > Peter Tarver > > > -Original Message- > > From: Dennis Ward [mailto:dennis.w...@pctest.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 13:07 > > To: Peter Tarver <ptar...@enphaseenergy.com>; EMC- > > p...@listserv.ieee.org > > Subject: RE: short range device alternate suppliers and > > labeling > > > > > > The ID number of the module inside the actual host must be > > identified. Option 1 does not do this. Option 2 is also > > questionable as it probably does not follow the instructions > > provided by the module manufacturer. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Peter Tarver > > [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 12:44 PM > > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > > Subject: [PSES] short range device alternate suppliers and > > labeling > > > > Hello. > > > > Imagine a Class B product and assume there are two > > suppliers of short range intentional radiator devices that are > > identical and use an identical reference design (one buys > > the device from the other and resells). Both have been > > evaluated using the modular approach for FCC and IC. > > > > Assume also that there is negligible differences in emissions > > test result. > > > > For either device, the unit is marked to show the FCC ID and > > the IC ID. To allow these devices to be used interchangeably > > for one another without having to purchase new labels to > > support each device, is it acceptable to label either: > > > > 1) "May contain FCC ID: , IC ID: yyy or FCC ID: aaa, IC ID: > > bbb," or > > 2) "Contains FCC ID: , IC ID: yyy or FCC ID: aaa, IC ID: > > bbb" with a check box before each set of ID strings? > > > > Option 1 is preferred, since Option 2 requires a manual > > operation on an otherwise automated production line. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Peter Tarver > > > > - > > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering > > Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the > > list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> > > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the > > web at: > > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online > > Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ > > can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, > > etc. > > > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including > > how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee- > > pses.org/listrules.html > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscrib
Re: [PSES] IEC 61000-3-2 Confusion
Hi James, The flowchart in Clause 7 in the version of the standard that I have access to sends you to Clause 4 for professional equipment that uses techniques not allowed by 6.1. The second paragraph of Clause 4 addresses professional equipment that does not comply with the requirements of the standard, mentioning that the instruction manual must indicate to ask the supply utility for permission to connect and that additional recommendations can be found in IEC/TR 61000-3-4 or IEC 61000-3-12. On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 7:01 AM, James Pawson (U3C) < ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk> wrote: > Hi folks, > > > > I apologise as I seem to be all take and not much give on this forum at > the moment; I’m trying to do a lot of learning very quickly. Someone ask a > question about HDMI so that I can feel useful! > > > > Today’s question is what appears to be a contradiction in IEC > 61000-3-2:2014. > > > >- The customers equipment is a triac controlled high-power PSU for >welding plastic parts together using resistance heater coils >- Power is over 1kW and the customer is suggesting that it is >“professional equipment” which, according to Clause 7, means that harmonic >“limits are not specified in this standard” >- Flowchart in Clause 7 says that Clause 6.1 for allowed control >methods still applies even to equipment with no limits >- Clause 6.1 says symmetrical control methods which produce large low >order harmonics (arguably this applies to triac control) that are used to >power heating elements (applicable) provided that either input power is >less than 200W (it isn’t) or the harmonic limits of Table 3 apply >- Clause 6.1 also says that symmetrical control for professional >equipment is OK provided one of the “above conditions” is fulfilled (which >it is, see previous bullet) > > > > So we’ve gone from Clause 7 saying no limits apply to Clause 6 saying that > Class D equipment limits apply. > > However the flowchart in Clause 7 suggests that just by being exempt from > Clause 7 limits means it automatically conforms to 61000-3-2 > > > > I feel like I’m going in circles. Does anyone have any insight that might > help? > > > > Much appreciated, > > James > > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] power strip details
pstc.html=02% > 7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C460c37fbc456443dbbb308d4fc390b53% > 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636410769320565642= > 5dBvPox7C0mCx%2FMgb233Yjkfb46zriT9rOidRvvoy3I%3D=0 > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct- > compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com% > 7C460c37fbc456443dbbb308d4fc390b53%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011 > db47%7C1%7C0%7C636410769320565642=JCOF2Ybff10utEHWkev4PiDn5eOv% > 2FTL4xCKbQSPEy14%3D=0 can be used for graphics (in well-used > formats), large files, etc. > Website: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F=02%7C01%7Cted. > eckert%40microsoft.com%7C460c37fbc456443dbbb308d4fc390b53% > 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636410769320565642= > eEf4QoehQXB70sNJSGMtXavZ99vUiefFeNBBMqKobyc%3D=0 > Instructions: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flist.html=02%7C01% > 7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C460c37fbc456443dbbb308d4fc390b53% > 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636410769320565642= > NIBbkZFTMHUztTrweht7Ifwp%2FTTSTAaal8wqyEXNmlc%3D=0 > List rules: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flistrules.html=02% > 7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C460c37fbc456443dbbb308d4fc390b53% > 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636410769320565642= > gGkEheEXEaBcAUqKye3YFEk6cf37IRqYro4nAvMpMYw%3D=0 > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html=02% > 7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C460c37fbc456443dbbb308d4fc390b53% > 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636410769320565642= > 5dBvPox7C0mCx%2FMgb233Yjkfb46zriT9rOidRvvoy3I%3D=0 > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct- > compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com% > 7C460c37fbc456443dbbb308d4fc390b53%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011 > db47%7C1%7C0%7C636410769320565642=JCOF2Ybff10utEHWkev4PiDn5eOv% > 2FTL4xCKbQSPEy14%3D=0 can be used for graphics (in well-used > formats), large files, etc. > Website: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F=02%7C01%7Cted. > eckert%40microsoft.com%7C460c37fbc456443dbbb308d4fc390b53% > 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636410769320565642= > eEf4QoehQXB70sNJSGMtXavZ99vUiefFeNBBMqKobyc%3D=0 > Instructions: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flist.html=02%7C01% > 7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C460c37fbc456443dbbb308d4fc390b53% > 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636410769320565642= > NIBbkZFTMHUztTrweht7Ifwp%2FTTSTAaal8wqyEXNmlc%3D=0 > List rules: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flistrules.html=02% > 7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C460c37fbc456443dbbb308d4fc390b53% > 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636410769320565642= > gGkEheEXEaBcAUqKye3YFEk6cf37IRqYro4nAvMpMYw%3D=0 > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > > __ > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. > __ > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-comp
Re: [PSES] Why higher value for DC in SELV
Hi Vincent, Note that IEC 60950-1 allows the normal SELV voltage limits to be exceeded (up to higher max limits) for up to 200ms under single fault condition. AC current becomes hazardous at lower levels than DC current due to the way the body reacts to it. This includes greater probability of ventricular fibrillation at mains frequency vs DC current at the same current level. IEC 60479-1 has good information, including curves that show at what current levels different physiological effects may be expected. The AC-3 curve and DC-3 curve both include strong involuntary muscular reaction (there are other effects also), but at long durations the AC-3 curve starts at 5mA where the DC-3 curve starts at (I believe) 30mA. The curves are time dependent, so shorter exposure times are associated with higher currents for the same physiological effects. I don't have a copy of this one, but IEC 61201 was used as one source for IEC 62368-1 for voltage limits, and could be a good source of information also for this question. On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Vincent Lee < 08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > Good evening, > > In most IEC product safety standards, e.g. IEC 60950-1, SELV is defined as > voltage not exceeds 30 Vrms or 60 VDC under both Normal and Single Fault > conditions. May I know why is a higher DC voltage value allowed, i.e. 60 > VDC compared to 30 Vrms ? > > Is it because AC voltage are more dangerous than DC voltage ? And if yes, > why ? > > Hope to hear from you soon. > Thank you a lot. > > Vincent > > Regards, Vincent > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Solar electric cars built by college students
UL 2202 is the UL standard for EV charging system equipment. Section 14 is on EV Bonding, and it requires the output circuit of the charger to provide a means for bonding the EV during charging for grounded system of protection. There are different protection schemes, so the need for bonding is dependent on which is applicable. In general, I would think that separate grounding of an EV from the charging system could create a ground loop and so would not be desirable. On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Ted Eckert < 07cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> wrote: > I recommend against following Ferrari’s practice. Apparently, portions of > the FXX K supercar are energized to 480 V when charging. There is a fin on > the roof with flashing LEDs. Red means stay away and green means safe. > > http://jalopnik.com/the-ferrari-fxx-k-might-electrocute-you-1796961190 > > > > Ted Eckert > > Microsoft Corporation > > > > The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of > my employer, Ferrari or the Society of Automotive Engineers. > > > > *From:* Dale Reid [mailto:re...@lexmark.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:52 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* [PSES] Solar electric cars built by college students > > > > Hello, > > > > Speaking of grounding, can someone share some thoughts on what would be > the best practice regarding an earth ground for an electric car while > plugged in and charging from the grid? Would it be best to tie a car's > metal frame to ground while it's hooked up for a charge? > > > *Dale Reid* > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C43daf57bbe664288643e08d4ce05dedd%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636359971985041978=sK8n2jfTVfAfHmfuDZmBy%2FxfCbgCpUkWH1iSGqlQHmg%3D=0> > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C43daf57bbe664288643e08d4ce05dedd%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636359971985041978=DAXDbrDJs1rpiWzDiRaywNEaUHhgwgnSdoHo%2Bjt%2Bf%2FE%3D=0> > can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C43daf57bbe664288643e08d4ce05dedd%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636359971985041978=Cj6HL9lGNYURhuipX7qz%2FOsQ1Gefy3bAuCDvP8w0ljY%3D=0> > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flist.html=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C43daf57bbe664288643e08d4ce05dedd%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636359971985051991=w2nveKq2EHL4vTGL2JKZkinG4dSQFtBGa0mtl4jD17I%3D=0> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flistrules.html=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C43daf57bbe664288643e08d4ce05dedd%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636359971985051991=qYBjFlquiKAaTcubblTjCGQpk5jfC85OEyjYgLmiPQo%3D=0> > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> &g
Re: [PSES] RED Harmonised Standards
Hi Scott, Article 3, 1(a) of the RED refers to the essential health and safety requirements of the LVD. This is also noted in section 9.5 of the RED guide. This isn't very explicit, but it implies that the harmonized standards list from the LVD should be used for presumption of conformity to these particular requirements. The alternative, at least for the moment, would appear to be use of a Notified Body if standards that are not considered harmonized are used. I don't think the intent was for manufacturers to have to go to a NB when standards harmonized under the LVD have been applied, but I also don't think the intent was to allow manufacturers to use any safety standards they please without NB involvement. On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:13 AM, Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com> wrote: > According to RED-CA guide, the clause 11.3 states that after 12 June 2017, > only RED is applicable. Now the HS list is empty and the manufacturer is > allowed whatever standards that they consider appropriate. Don’t > understand why they don’t allow this transitional period to use HS of > previous R until they publish the HS for RED. > > > > Regards, > > > > Scott > > > > *From: *Scott Aldous <scottald...@google.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, 28 June 2017 at 11:45 PM > *To: *Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com> > *Cc: *"EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" <EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org> > > *Subject: *Re: [PSES] RED Harmonised Standards > > > > Thanks, Scott, for asking this question! I've been wondering about this > for a while now. I wonder if the intent is to leverage the list for the > LVD, but I know of no documentation that indicates this. > > > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:43 AM, Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com> wrote: > > In addition to 3.1b EMC requirements, 3.1a health & safety requirements > are also none of HS. It looks they deliberately arrange it. Is there any > particular reason behind the scene? > > > > Regards, > > > > Scott > > > > > > > > *From: *"Paasche, Dieter" <dieter.paas...@christiedigital.com> > *Reply-To: *"Paasche, Dieter" <dieter.paas...@christiedigital.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, 28 June 2017 at 11:21 PM > *To: *<EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> > *Subject: *Re: [PSES] RED Harmonised Standards > > > > > > Interesting. One additional question is I don’t see any of the 301 489 > series. Is this going to be published in the RED harmonized standards list, > as it is strictly speaking and EMC requirement, or is this part of the > article 3.1 b requirement:” an adequate level of electromagnetic > compatibility as set out in Directive 2014/30/EU.?” > > The EMC directive only lists 301 489-1 and 301 489-34. > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Dieter Paasche > > Senior Product Developer, Electrical > > CHRISTIE > > 809 Wellington Street North > > Kitchener, ON N2G 4Y7 > > Phone: 519-744-8005 ext.7211 <(519)%20744-8005> > > www.christiedigital.com > > > > This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is confidential. Any > unauthorized use, distribution or disclosure is prohibited. If you have > received this e-mail message in error, please notify the sender by reply > e-mail or telephone and delete it and any attachments from your computer > system and records. > > > > *From:* Douglas Nix [mailto:d...@mac.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 27, 2017 2:27 PM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* [PSES] RED Harmonised Standards > > > > Colleagues, > > > > I just heard about a new Communication and list of Harmonised Standards > under the RED: > > > > http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri= > uriserv:OJ.C_.2017.180.01.0005.01.ENG=OJ:C:2017:180:TOC > > > > -- > > Doug Nix > > d...@mac.com > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the lis
Re: [PSES] RED Harmonised Standards
gt; emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] CE Compliance [General Use]
See section 4.4. of the 2016 Blue Guide <http://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/newsroom/cf/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=7326>, as well as Article 15 and Annex IV of the EMC Directive <http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32014L0030>. Article 15 mandates that the DoC follow the model outlined in Annex IV, which includes 8 specific elements. Article 15 also requires that the DoC "be continuously updated". On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Brian O'Connell <oconne...@tamuracorp.com> wrote: > ISO17050-1,-2 provides a generic specification for the D of C. The > directive itself clearly indicates the scope of the requirements (to > include the various party responsibilities) for the mark and the > declaration. > > There is a difference between 'proof' and the basis for a presumption of > conformity. 'Proof' is not necessarily part of the D of C. > > Brian > > > -Original Message- > From: Price, Andrew (Leonardo, UK) [mailto:andrew.p.price@ > LEONARDOCOMPANY.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 5:46 AM > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: [PSES] CE Compliance [General Use] > > Hi all, > > Can a statement that a product is compliant with the EMC Directive > 2004/108/EC or 2014/30/EU in the support documentation be regarded as proof > of conformity or does there have to be a Declaration of Conformity which > states compliance with the Directive via appropriate standards??? > Also to refresh my memory does the DofC have to be supplied to the end > user or can it be held by the products distributor in the EU?? > > Regards > Andy > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] IEEE1547 - Unintentional Islanding
The memory is a bit fuzzy now that a few years have gone by, but from what I recall I don't believe we were asked to do this by the relevant agencies at my previous company. We did have to perform other tests, such as harmonics, at different static PF settings. On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Ralph McDiarmid < ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com> wrote: > Has anyone been asked to perform the Unintentional Islanding tests in > IEEE1547.1 at different static PF settings? > > > Ralph McDiarmid > Product Compliance > Solar Business > Schneider Electric > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Hosedown test
A Google search <https://www.google.com/search?q=scope+of+accreditation+ul+50e+hosedown=1CAZZAD_enUS625US626=scope+of+=chrome.0.69i59l3j69i57j0l2.1705j0j7=chrome=UTF-8> on "scope of accreditation UL 50e hosedown" gives a few hits, none in the EU. For example, see the bottom of page 3 of this doc <http://www.certifygroup.com/documents/CertifiGroupScope.pdf>. On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 7:48 AM, john Allen <john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > Could try one of the NRTLs with companies in the UK or your own/nearest > country (UL, TUV, Intertek, etc.) to see if they can help. > > > > John E Allen > > W.London, UK > > > > *From:* Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] > *Sent:* 03 May 2017 12:06 > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Hosedown test > > > > Bostjan > > > > My experience has been that if you need NRTL listing of the product, the > test needs to be done at a suitable lab in the USA > > > > Be good to know if someone has experience to the contrary > > > > Regards > > Charlie > > > > *Charlie Blackham* > > *Sulis Consultants Ltd* > > *Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 <+44%207946%20624317>* > > *Web: **www.sulisconsultants.com* > <https://outlook.hslive.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=02be3bf3e3a544d1bdf7b6c99fbd12f5=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sulisconsultants.com%2f> > > Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 > > > > -Original Message- > From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si <bostjan.gla...@siq.si>] > > Sent: 03 May 2017 11:21 > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: [PSES] Hosedown test > > > > Dear experts, > > > > Is anyone familiar if there exists laboratory with accreditation for > hosedown test according to UL 50E (type 4X)? The best would be in EU. > > > > Thank you for your support. > > > > Best regards > > Bostjan > > > > - > > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org
Re: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification
The end product compliance engineer. ;) On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Pete Perkins <peperkin...@cs.com> wrote: > Scott et al, > > > > Ah. As we suspected, it is a regulatory mark. Who > inspects? > > > > :>) br, Pete > > > > Peter E Perkins, PE > > Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant > > PO Box 23427 > > Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 > > > > 503/452-1201 <(503)%20452-1201> > > > > p.perk...@ieee.org > > > > *From:* Scott Aldous [mailto:0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] > *Sent:* Thursday, April 13, 2017 7:58 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification > > > > Hi Rich, > > > > The doc's stated purpose for the mark is as follows: > > > > "The international efficiency marking protocol provides a system for EPS > manufacturers to designate the minimum efficiency performance of an EPS, *so > that finished product manufacturers and government representatives can > easily determine a unit’s efficiency. *" > > > > Class VI is more stringent than Class V, and has been mandatory in the US > since February 2016. > > > > On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 5:48 AM, Nyffenegger, Dave < > dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com> wrote: > > If the mark is required to meet legislated efficiency requirements then > it’s likely the customs inspectors will be looking for it on imports. > > > > -Dave > > > > *From:* Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 3:00 PM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification > > > > > > Hi Scott: > > > > Thanks for the reference. However, > > > > “*This mark does not serve as a consumer information label,* but rather > demonstrates the performance of the EPS when tested to the internationally > supported test methods.” > > > > Hmm. If the mark does not serve as a consumer information label, who is > it for? Bragging mark (to other power supply manufacturers)? > > > > My power supply is marked “V.” This appears to be more stringent than > “VI.” True? > > > > Best regards, > > Still cynical Rich > > > > > > > > *From:* Scott Aldous [mailto:0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 10:53 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification > > > > It is an efficiency marking for external power supplies. Current US > requirement is level VI. You can download more info from the DOE here > <https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=EERE-2008-BT-STD-0005-0218>. > > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 10:31 AM, John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com> > wrote: > > What does the letter V in a circle mean? > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/li
Re: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification
Hi Rich, The doc's stated purpose for the mark is as follows: "The international efficiency marking protocol provides a system for EPS manufacturers to designate the minimum efficiency performance of an EPS, *so that finished product manufacturers and government representatives can easily determine a unit’s efficiency. *" Class VI is more stringent than Class V, and has been mandatory in the US since February 2016. On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 5:48 AM, Nyffenegger, Dave < dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com> wrote: > If the mark is required to meet legislated efficiency requirements then > it’s likely the customs inspectors will be looking for it on imports. > > > > -Dave > > > > *From:* Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 3:00 PM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification > > > > > > Hi Scott: > > > > Thanks for the reference. However, > > > > “*This mark does not serve as a consumer information label,* but rather > demonstrates the performance of the EPS when tested to the internationally > supported test methods.” > > > > Hmm. If the mark does not serve as a consumer information label, who is > it for? Bragging mark (to other power supply manufacturers)? > > > > My power supply is marked “V.” This appears to be more stringent than > “VI.” True? > > > > Best regards, > > Still cynical Rich > > > > > > > > *From:* Scott Aldous [mailto:0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 10:53 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification > > > > It is an efficiency marking for external power supplies. Current US > requirement is level VI. You can download more info from the DOE here > <https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=EERE-2008-BT-STD-0005-0218>. > > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 10:31 AM, John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com> > wrote: > > What does the letter V in a circle mean? > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification
It is an efficiency marking for external power supplies. Current US requirement is level VI. You can download more info from the DOE here <https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=EERE-2008-BT-STD-0005-0218>. On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 10:31 AM, John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com> wrote: > What does the letter V in a circle mean? > > > > Only adepts of the 9th order of All High Jimbo or higher may know. > > > > With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only > > www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England > > > > Sylvae in aeternum manent. > > > > *From:* Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 5:38 PM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification > > > > > > > > Hi Brian: > > > > It’s is so funny to me how our company seems to spend more time on the > simple issues. And we are not even talking about the Current rating, the > 80% rule on pluggable equipment, how some inspectors want to see an > “Average Current” or “Max. Continuous Current” rating on the instrument, or > where some standards allow you to include an additional current rating in > “brackets” that represent current levels higher than 10% of the rated > current that occurs within the first minute of operation. Crazy man. > > > > This is a topic which everyone “understands,” whereas the other safety > topics belong to the regulatory person. Everyone is an expert on ratings: > how to “clearly” and “completely” (in their opinion) express the ratings. > And, everyone (even the standards committees) have their opinion of what > the customer needs to know (yet the customer just plugs it in and doesn’t > pay any attention to the rating markings or the details in the manual). > For the most part, the ratings and their expression are for the > certification house or the inspector. You can’t satisfy them all. Assert > your authority as the regulatory person. > > > > Best regards, > > Cynical Rich > > > > ps: I wanted to know if my new phone direct plug-in charger would work on > 230 volts; it does. Small, grey printing on the white body was hard to > see. 120-volt plug; would require an adapter. House symbol without the > arrow pointing in or out. What does the letter V in a circle mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To pos
Re: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification
More info from PG on US grid voltage ranges here <https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/energystatus/powerquality/voltage_tolerance.pdf> . On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 4:32 AM, Pete Perkins < 0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> wrote: > Brian, et al, > > I don't believe that anyone has pointed out that voltage > tolerances are derived from the range that is assigned by the power > utilities - regulated in most developed countries - and needed so that the > national power grid can be interconnected without additional trouble. > > In North America the usual Voltage tolerance is +6/-10% (why > deliver a higher voltage so that the user gets more power for the same > price, but regulate the lower limit so that the user gets a minimum amount > of power for their money). > > Much of the rest of the world uses a Voltage tolerance of +10/-10%. > > So, test houses use these values in testing equipment to ensure > that it will work properly over the usual range of Voltage. > > Designers need to understand this in designing the product but no > need, as has been said, to put this on the product. The nominal voltages > or voltage ranges provided imply that the equipment will work at the > Voltages shown including their tolerances. > > The advent of electronic power supplies on lots of equipment has > simplified the designers life since, in a simple descriptive way, the power > supply is current driven and works independent of the supply Voltage to > provide the needed output. > > :>) br, Pete > > Peter E Perkins, PE > Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant > PO Box 23427 > Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 > > 503/452-1201 > > p.perk...@ieee.org > > -Original Message- > From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 11:18 AM > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: Re: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification > > Hi Brian: > > > Is something like this allowed? > > > > 100-115-120/208-220-230-240 > > Unless the applicable standard says otherwise, yes. > > What is the safety issue (injury) that results from non-compliance with > the standard's rules for marking configuration of the input rating? > > > Will a ±10% tolerance always be assumed? > > Usually, yes. > > > If your tolerance > > was something different, such as -15%/+10%, does this information have > > to be on the device or is the manual good enough? > > Your "tolerance" will be used by the certification house if it is greater > than the standard's "tolerance." However, you need not specify the > tolerance. > > The "tolerance" need not be marked on the product; the standard does not > require that you specify a tolerance. So, it is your choice to specify a > tolerance or not, and where to place a tolerance. > > Best regards, > Rich > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules
Re: [PSES] Questions on RCB, RCCB and ELCBs and GFCI protection devices
Thanks, Pete, for the detail! On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Pete Perkins <peperkin...@cs.com> wrote: > Vincent et al, > > > >There have been several really good responses to your > question on this listserv; it’s great to see everyone chime in and provide > their info. > > > >I’d like to add a bit of background and detail to all of > this. > > > >Scott pointed out the time vs current curve in the ABB > paper. This curve is from the original version of IEC 60479-1 ‘Effects of > electric current on humans …’ and has been slightly updated in the current > version of the standard. The small changes do not however affect the > overall argument nor the application of this base data to the problem at > hand. > > > >There are 3 electric shock levels stated in 60479-1. > Perception of electric current is highly variable among persons and extends > well into the low microamp range. In 60479-1, the lowest level, the > startle-reaction level (‘a’ line) is at 0.5mArms level; the next level, the > letgo-immobilization level (‘b’ line) is 5mArms for times above one ac > cycle (which provides protection for all individuals – men, women and > children); the third level, the Ventricular Fibrillation level (‘c1, c2 and > c3’ lines) is intended to illustrate a statistical distribution for VF and > the lowest, ‘c1’ line is 30mArms for times above one ac cycle. > >The selection of 5mArms for the GFCI units is chosen to > prevent immobilization if the earth/ground current goes above that value. > These units are widely used in North America especially in homes but also > in commercial buildings anywhere there is ground present – bathrooms, > kitchens, laundries, garage and outdoor outlets. > >The RCD units have been used in Europe for some time for > industrial use intended to prevent serious hazard to workers. The choice > of the 30mArms limit has been considered adequate for that application. > >There is some question about the adequacy of the 30mArms > limit in that the ‘c1’ line is not an absolute limit for persons. It is a > statistical limit, having been considered a 5% line in the past (but some > folks today like to call it a 1% line). In either case it is clear that > there are humans who lie to the left of this line and will be subject to VF > at lower currents. [When considered a 5% line it means that there are about > 350 Million persons on planet earth to the left of the curve.] > >The US will introduce a higher current device for use in > industrial and other high power uses (such as electric car chargers). It > looks like the devices will be 15mArms or 25mArms (and the limit prescribed > for various installations). > >A further issue is that mains electronic switching devices > are no longer sinusoidal and the circuits on which they work are subject to > impulses which will push the current levels in the circuit being protected > above the desired level (whether 5mArms, 15mArms, 25mArms or 30mArms). The > impulses are invading the space of the next higher protection level since > it is the peak value of the impulse which causes the harm. These impulse > currents can be harmful to humans when accessible. > >Today there are issues using electronic switching units > connected to GFCI and RCD units. The feedback signals from the equipment > will, in some cases, either falsely trip the protection device or not > properly trip when the current exceeds the protection value. > > > >Obviously coordinated levels for outgoing emissions and > incoming susceptibility between equipments need to be fully worked out. > > > >Hopefully this further explanation is helpful to you and > other on this network. > > > > :>) br, Pete > > > > Peter E Perkins, PE > > Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant > > PO Box 23427 > > Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 > > > > 503/452-1201 <(503)%20452-1201> > > > > p.perk...@ieee.org > > > > *From:* Scott Aldous [mailto:0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] > *Sent:* Thursday, February 16, 2017 8:29 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Questions on RCB, RCCB and ELCBs > > > > Hi Vincent, > > > > Here > <https://library.e.abb.com/public/c4e584f06cc6c4fbc1257ad800496193/2CSC420004B0201_RCDs%20EN.pdf> > is a technical guide from ABB that you may find helpful. With regard to the > 30mA trip level for an RCD, the paper refers to IEC 60479-1 and reproduces > a Figure from that
Re: [PSES] Questions on RCB, RCCB and ELCBs
essage is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] dimension of the stud for PE
I've done this test at several hundred amps before (not to 60950-1, but similar). I used an old Sorensen <http://www.programmablepower.com/brands/sorensen.htm> DC power supply (low voltage, high current), with external calibrated measurement for both current and voltage drop. Care must also be taken in connecting the power supply to the EUT to make sure it is low resistance. On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 1:52 PM, John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com> wrote: > Reminds me of an amusing argument between a student and a 5 V 1000 A MG > set, observed from a safe distance. > > > > With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only > > www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England > > > > Sylvae in aeternum manent. > > > > *From:* Ted Eckert [mailto:07cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] > *Sent:* Thursday, December 1, 2016 7:11 PM > > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] dimension of the stud for PE > > > > The test of 2.6.3.4 does get interesting for high current equipment. I > have personally run this test only on equipment rated up to 50 A. Even > then, it required applying a 100 A test current for 4 minutes. For the 130 > A rated product, you would have a test current of 260 A applied for 8 > minutes. > > > > It may not be easy to find a ground bond tester capable of supplying this > current. I did my testing at 100 A using a transformer salvaged from a > large scrap uninterruptible power supply. It allowed me to step down a 15 > A, 120 V circuit to provide the necessary current at a voltage below the 12 > V limit. With this transformer, only a calibrated volt-meter and > current-meter were required. > > > > One significant issue with this test setup is that additional care must be > taken to ensure operator safety. Purchased equipment often has sensors to > detect a faulty connection or other error that triggers the equipment to > shut off power quickly. You likely won’t have this in equipment you build > yourself for such testing. Proper PPE and safety precautions should be used > when using any high-power equipment, but it may be necessary to talk with > your facility safety staff as home-built equipment doesn’t come with a user > manual telling you what is required for safety. > > > > The lower voltage used should provide some safety benefit. However, a > loose connection that comes in contact with an earth-grounded circuit may > result in significant arcing. Even low voltages should be treated with > respect when you have high current available. > > > > Ted Eckert > > Microsoft Corporation > > > > The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of > my employer. > > > > *From:* Scott Aldous [mailto:0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org > <0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>] > *Sent:* Thursday, December 1, 2016 9:04 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] dimension of the stud for PE > > > > Ken alluded to this before - alternately, 2.6.4.2 allows you to run the > test of 2.6.3.4 for constructions that don't meet the requirements of Table > 3E. > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 8:42 PM, IBM Ken <ibm...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Bostjan; > > > > That is my understanding; use the table to determine the cross-sectional > area (as wire) required, and then ensure that the stud > arrangement provides at least triple that contact area. > > > > -Ken > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Boštjan Glavič <bostjan.gla...@siq.si> > wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > > > Thanks. > > So on short, if table 3B brings requirement of 50mm2 conductor, you would > accept terminal if it brings contact area of 150mm2? > > > > Best regards, > > Bostjan > > > > > > > > *From:* IBM Ken [mailto:ibm...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, December 1, 2016 5:24 AM > *To:* Boštjan Glavič <bostjan.gla...@siq.si> > *Cc:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] dimension of the stud for PE > > > > Hi Bostjan! > > Can note (c) in Table 3E be applied to this product? > > > > I think it is justifiable to extend the protective bonding rules to the PE > connection; i.e. to pass the bonding test or to verify via inspection that > the PE conductor is "not smaller" than the mains supply - but that's just > my opinion. > > > > -Ken > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 10:53 PM, Boštjan Glavič <bostjan.gla...@siq.si> > wrote: > > Dear experts > > > > I hope there are some experts dealing with IEC 60950-1 standard. We have a > product that has rated in
Re: [PSES] dimension of the stud for PE
Ken alluded to this before - alternately, 2.6.4.2 allows you to run the test of 2.6.3.4 for constructions that don't meet the requirements of Table 3E. On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 8:42 PM, IBM Ken <ibm...@gmail.com> wrote: > Bostjan; > > That is my understanding; use the table to determine the cross-sectional > area (as wire) required, and then ensure that the stud > arrangement provides at least triple that contact area. > > -Ken > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Boštjan Glavič <bostjan.gla...@siq.si> > wrote: > >> Hi Ken, >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> So on short, if table 3B brings requirement of 50mm2 conductor, you would >> accept terminal if it brings contact area of 150mm2? >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Bostjan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* IBM Ken [mailto:ibm...@gmail.com] >> *Sent:* Thursday, December 1, 2016 5:24 AM >> *To:* Boštjan Glavič <bostjan.gla...@siq.si> >> *Cc:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] dimension of the stud for PE >> >> >> >> Hi Bostjan! >> >> Can note (c) in Table 3E be applied to this product? >> >> >> >> I think it is justifiable to extend the protective bonding rules to the >> PE connection; i.e. to pass the bonding test or to verify via inspection >> that the PE conductor is "not smaller" than the mains supply - but >> that's just my opinion. >> >> >> >> -Ken >> >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 10:53 PM, Boštjan Glavič <bostjan.gla...@siq.si> >> wrote: >> >> Dear experts >> >> >> >> I hope there are some experts dealing with IEC 60950-1 standard. We have >> a product that has rated input current 130A. Unit is intended for permanent >> connection to mains and provide special terminals for 3 phases and bolt >> with stud for PE connectio. >> >> >> >> Question is how should we evaluate dimension of this PE stud according to >> clause 2.6.4.2, 3.3.5 and table 3E of IEC 60950-1 since values in the table >> go only up to 80A rated current. >> >> >> >> Thank you for your support. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Bostjan >> >> >> >> >> >> - >> >> >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to >> emc-p...@ieee.org >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >> >> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site >> at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in >> well-used formats), large files, etc. >> >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org >> Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org >> David Heald dhe...@gmail.com >> >> >> > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is f
Re: [PSES] Paper Manuals?
LjfWTYQkksq4Trqw=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY=oT1qUHgJ6W1ZB9Sll7JqxGkc27pG9r_d1dmqqJCloQI=3ausFnkdcma56WIjEGLV_vHX-Nc703o6Ci8B-ws6Jk4=> > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_list.html=DgMFaQ=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY=oT1qUHgJ6W1ZB9Sll7JqxGkc27pG9r_d1dmqqJCloQI=D1pfaK-Q0Zbuo-3mXT8LClTejoMzaltuGnGBQrlCVhw=> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_listrules.html=DgMFaQ=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY=oT1qUHgJ6W1ZB9Sll7JqxGkc27pG9r_d1dmqqJCloQI=6Rpf6FIyvHSIuZ8teqsKfQKyJreKAyVQwrx_kAFAlsg=> > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Shorting switch - appropriate markings
e files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] standard for power suply for server room.
ly > voltage (boost stages in a SMPS, inverters for CCFL tubes, HV supply for > corona wire in a laser printer, TV flyback, etc). > > > > Would 61010 work? > > > > -Ken A > > > > On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 12:09 AM, Boštjan Glavič <bostjan.gla...@siq.si> > wrote: > > Dear experts I again need your opinion on below issue. > > > > Customer was asked for development of power supply which will be used to > supply a server in data centre. Input to power supply is defined as > 750VDC. Unfortunately no information is available how this DC supply > voltage is generated and reference to PE. Most probably it will be floating. > > > > Now the problem, what standard to use for such product? > > > > - Standard IEC 60950-1 which is most often used is limited to > 600V rated voltage. Does it mean 600VRMS? Is it then allowed to approve > also products with 600xsqrt(2)=848VDC rated voltage according IEC 60950-1 > or limit is also set to 600VDC? Where this limit actually comes from? If > you check requirements for clearance and creepage distance they go quite > higher than 600V. > > - Standard IEC 62477-1 could be appropriate standard however > problem is that this standard is not worldwide harmonised and therefore no > national certificates (US/CAN, China) are possible based on report > according to this standard > > - What other standard would be OK for US/CAN? > > > > I appreciate your feedback. > > > > Best regards, > > Bostjan > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - -
Re: [PSES] Fire ants
Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US
dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] NEC 2017
ll <mcantw...@ieee.org> >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> >> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> >> - >> >> >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to >> emc-p...@ieee.org >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >> >> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site >> at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in >> well-used formats), large files, etc. >> >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org >> Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org >> David Heald dhe...@gmail.com >> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | scottald...@google.com | 650-253-1994 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval
Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > <emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > -- Scott Aldous Regulatory Compliance Program Manager Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Transformer insulation class
Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] EN 62133 2013
See the last paragraph of the Austrian National Foreword in this preview <https://shop.austrian-standards.at/Preview.action;jsessionid=6309A0F60DB57CF4295DE51A402136B7?preview==507572=en>. I didn't see a similar note in other country national forewards that I could find. On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 6:33 AM, Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Matt, >> >> >> >> Where did you get dow of 10/01/2016? >> >> >> >> Thanks and regards, >> >> >> >> Scott >> >> >> >> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for >> Windows 10 >> >> >> >> *From:* Larkin, Matthew [mailto:matthew.lar...@tuv-sud.co.uk] >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 26, 2016 1:54 PM >> *To:* Leber, Jody (Suwanee); EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >> *Subject:* RE: [PSES] EN 62133 2013 >> >> >> >> Hi Jody >> >> The dow date is 2016-01-10; so 10th January 2016 for EN62133 for >> conflicting National standards to be withdrawn. >> >> Best Regards >> >> Matthew >> >> Sent from my Windows Phone >> >> *From: *Leber, Jody (Suwanee) <jody.le...@sgs.com> >> *Sent: *26/04/2016 17:58 >> *To: *EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >> *Subject: *Re: [PSES] EN 62133 2013 >> >> Hi Scott, >> >> >> >> I actually thought the dow was in October. Where did you see the July >> date? I do not believe it is any Directive as most batteries are outside >> of the scope of the LVD. You will find in end product standards and it is >> required for CB Scheme. >> >> >> >> 8.3.9: Design evaluation – Forced internal short circuit only applies to >> Korea, >> >> Japan, Switzerland and France. >> >> >> >> It is not clear about the enforcement of 8.3.9, because that is country >> difference. Can it be enforced for the EU? >> >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> >> >> *Jody Leber* >> >> *Consumer and Retail* >> >> Global Battery and Accumulator Technical Manager >> >> Battery and Performance Laboratory Manager >> >> >> Direct: 770.570.1838 >> >> Main: 770.570.1800 >> >> Mobile: 678.469.9835 >> >> >> >> >> - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] [SPAM] Re: [PSES] Commom mode current vs. differential mode current and LISN
That assumes that the input neutral in the product is always actually connected to the neutral of the supply. Even with polarized plugs (or plugs in a configuration where the connection itself cannot be reversed) it is possible for residential house wiring to be incorrect. This is fairly common in the US with old houses or where homeowners have done wiring rather than an electrician. http://howdyinspections.com/2015/02/13/reverse-polarity-fix/ IEC 62368-1 indicates that a neutral conductor is considered to be a class 3 electrical energy source. This seems to assume that one cannot rely on the N to E impedance in a product to be low enough to assure safety. On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 3:30 AM, John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com> wrote: > I suppose it has been realised (or assumed?) that the impedance from N to > E, even at quite high frequencies, is already low enough that an > additional 4.7 nF makes insufficient difference to justify its inclusion. > An experiment is indicated. > > > > *From:* Richard Marshall [mailto:richard.marshal...@btinternet.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:34 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* [SPAM] Re: [PSES] Commom mode current vs. differential mode > current and LISN > > > > *Re Richard Nute’s “**All of the products I have seen have two Y > capacitors, one from L to E, and one from N to E. “* > > > > *Sorry for the delay in the following comment: I’ve been on Holiday with > no email.* > > > > I have now checked the 13 mains-powered devices for which I have definite > knowledge of their Y cap. disposition. They are all commercially-produced > products that are commonplace in domestic or office locations worldwide. > > > > Of the 13, 4 have only a SINGLE Class Y capacitor. 4/13 is 30% > > > > I think that this represents a trend, since now SMPS are so nearly > universal and these give the opportunity – some might say the necessity - > to be quite subtle in the circuit design around the Y capacitor(s). > > > > Richard > > > - > > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] "For indoor use only" on External Power Supply
Hi Scott, Information on symbol 5957 of IEC 60417 here <https://www.iso.org/obp/ui#iec:grs:60417:0:5957>. The link includes a list of IEC standards that reference the symbol by number, including IEC 60335-2-29, which is the safety standard for household and similar electrical appliances - particular requirements for battery chargers. On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com> wrote: > I notice a warning “For indoor use only” and a its symbol on the EPS, but > not a must on on portable units. What does it mean and which standard does > mandate it? > > > Thanks and regards, > > > Scott > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Reliable means to attach thermocouple to object
Hi Scott, Though not relevant to your product, UL 1741 has requirements on how to hold a TC in contact with the surface being measured that may be useful. Use of tape is not allowed except as strain relief only. If you are a UL customer, you should be able to access the standard. See clause 43.8. When I was at UL, we used an adhesive with accelerator, similar to Rodney's suggestion. On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Rodney Davis <rodney.da...@mitel.com> wrote: > I have never heard of taping a thermocouple. > may i suggest simple Loctite and eccelerator for quick application, a dip > of thermal transfer paste would also be good for good concise measurements. > > Rodney Davis > > From: Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com> > Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 11:52 AM > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: [PSES] Reliable means to attach thermocouple to object > > I used to attach thermocouple to the object under temperature rise test > using Kapton tape. Currently I looked at an SMPS that is operating at a > temperature of 120 degC under an ambient temperature of 20 degC. The tape > seems not very reliable and rigid enough for long period of testing. Is > there any other more suitable means to attach the thermocouple to such high > temperature point of interest? > > The spec quotes the max temperature of 150 degC. Is it normal for the > rectifier to have such high operating temperature? > > Thanks and regards, > > Scott > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > > NOTE: This e-mail (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the > intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is confidential > and/or protected by legal privilege. Any unauthorized review, use, copy, > disclosure or distribution of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you > are not the intended recipient, please notify Mitel immediately and destroy > all copies of this e-mail. Mitel does not accept any liability for breach > of security, error or virus that may result from the transmission of this > message. > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Insulation testing
g%2femc-pstc.html=01%7c01%7cted.eckert%40MICROSOFT.COM%7cfbd455e0d2d54349520b08d33dfab269%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=JsPyfLlt6vUvvT7jfedy2m2%2b1SoewGbPKODY6c8H9f4%3d> > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2f=01%7c01%7cted.eckert%40MICROSOFT.COM%7cfbd455e0d2d54349520b08d33dfab269%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=BsSWYvYKscxegbQbK3j3LiPww30FWn11ofLQiGedMv8%3d> > can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ieee-pses.org%2f=01%7c01%7cted.eckert%40MICROSOFT.COM%7cfbd455e0d2d54349520b08d33dfab269%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=cG%2fno4js%2bp7Bitkl37tXsdjqM%2fY3k0BmlUMNwhl%2b8cs%3d> > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ieee-pses.org%2flist.html=01%7c01%7cted.eckert%40MICROSOFT.COM%7cfbd455e0d2d54349520b08d33dfab269%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=7U45gzlhXBfcaSKSttoMEXbG6i6dkZYRbDt9vG88IKU%3d> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ieee-pses.org%2flistrules.html=01%7c01%7cted.eckert%40MICROSOFT.COM%7cfbd455e0d2d54349520b08d33dfab269%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=8cxqLqyQhfPgfFw2hTfPyRgtuVfnEkI2O9pojzKQhcM%3d> > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Is your company doing enough to ensure adequate EMC complia nce?
have an impact. They > spoke publicly. They used plain English. They were specific in describing > what the DOJ and SEC expect to see or not see when evaluating whether to > bring an enforcement action. > In house lawyers and outside counsel can measure the company's behavior > against those words, and argue why an enforcement action isn't warranted. > Public accountability of the DOJ and SEC and how they make decisions to > bring FCPA enforcement actions just increased. > Beyond that, Caldwell and Ceresney last week gave companies more reasons > to have strong compliance programs. And they gave compliance officers more > tools to work with, and more authority. Those are the same objectives of a > compliance defense. > Last week was a good one for the compliance profession. > - See more at: > http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/2015/11/11/feds-as-thought-leaders-a-back-door-compliance-defense-takes.html#sthash.vw9uPoS1.dpuf > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses
Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 query
Hi Ronald, It may be helpful for you to purchase a copy of 62368-2, which has the rationale for the requirements in 62368-1. Others can provide more detail and probably explain better than I, but in general Table 4 has voltage *or* current limits, and Table 5 has capacitance *and* voltage limits. Table 4 is based on current (concerned with electrical shock), while Table 5 is based on energy (concerned with energy hazard), so you aren't comparing apples to apples by just looking at the voltage values in each table. *Table 4 (Electric Shock)* See Figure 21, and the explanation at the end of 5.2.2.1. "For any voltage up to the voltage limit, there is no limit for the current. Likewise for any current up to the current limit, there is no limit for the voltage..." - For low voltage circuits, the current is limited by the impedance through the human body. The currents assumed to flow through the human body at the ES1 voltage limits are lower than that which causes undesirable physiological effects. - There could be an ES1 circuit up to 25kV, or even higher in theory (with currents in normal, abnormal and single fault conditions limited to comply with the applicable limit). As long as the current is limited to values below that which causes undesirable physiological effects, the voltage doesn't matter. This is similar to the Limited Current Circuit from 60950-1, clause 2.4. *Table 5 (Capacitor Energy)* For the energy from a capacitor, the table takes into account capacitance and voltage, so both need to be taken into account since the equation for available energy from a capacitor includes both variables. This is similar to 2.1.1.5c)2) from 60950-1. A bit more info here <http://ewh.ieee.org/r10/taiwan/pses/archive/Historical%20data/Article_IEEE_PSES_CFP2005_Hazard-Based%20Safety%20Standard.pdf> (see section III). On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Ronald Pickard < ronald.pick...@compoundphotonics.com> wrote: > For all those more familiar than I with this standard, I would appreciate > a clarification. > > > > I’ve just purchased EN 62368-1 (assuming IEC 62368-1, too) and have > started immersing myself in it, but in 5.2.2.3 (Table 5) ES1/ES2 voltage > limits from a charged capacitor appear to violate the ES1/ES2 voltage > limits from 5.2.2.2 (Table 4). As Table 5 doesn’t address Vdc or Vac, I am > assuming absolute voltages (Upeak not defined) apply here. It appears that > up to 25KV (50KV for ES2) are allowed depending on capacitor value. And, > how would a capacitor be charged to 25KV in or then connected to an ES1 > circuit without consequence? Am I reading this correctly? Are these voltage > limits intended for capacitor rating limits only? What is the purpose of > 5.2.2.3 and Table 5? > > > > The further I get with this, the more questions that pop up for me. I > can’t seem to resolve this in my own feeble grey matter as to why such > voltages would be allowed. I would like to understand this better and would > appreciate if someone would clarify this for me and possibly others that > may have these or similar questions as well. > > > > I look forward to your reply. > > > > Best regards, > > > > *Ronald Pickard* > Regulatory Compliance Engineer > *Compound Photonics* > D | +1 (602) 883-8039 > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com > -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site a
Re: [PSES] requirement for spacings
Hi Bostjan, It's difficult to give detailed guidance without knowing what end standards are being applied, but the general guidance in IEC 60664-1 should be helpful. In general, +30% tolerance on input voltage is outside the assumptions of most (if not all) safety standards. An electrical rating of 560Vdc +30%/-15% doesn't seem to be appropriate and should be expressed as a range instead. The range here is from 476 - 728 Vdc! For example, 600V rated wire would seem to be an acceptable choice for external wiring for the input of a device marked with a 560V input rating, but in this case the input voltage may be able to be significantly higher than 600V for extended periods. A marked rating of 560Vdc would be misleading. If your end standard allows the clearances to be determined based on assumed transient levels, then the nominal input voltage (or voltages) becomes less important for clearances as long as you are able to make an accurate assumption about the transients. The 840Vdc level potentially could be taken as a temporary overvoltage for the purposes of calculation of clearance, again depending on the end product standard. At least one end product standard that I know of, IEC 62109-1, takes both transient overvoltages and temporary overvoltages into account for calculation of clearances. For creepage, at a minimum, I think you would want to base creepage distance requirements on the 728Vdc high end of the input voltage (560Vdc + 30%). Whether or not you should use the 840Vdc level instead may depend on the specifics of the case, such as how frequently this can happen, what controls are in place to ensure that this is reliably the case, etc. Again, the requirements of the end product standard need to be taken into account and will certainly influence your decision. On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 4:03 AM, Boštjan Glavič <bostjan.gla...@siq.si> wrote: > Dear Experts, > > Manufacturer specified rated voltage of his product as 560VDC +30%/-15% > but input voltage can temporarily reach 840VDC (max 1 min). > > Do we need to consider 840VDC for determination of required distances? > Usually standard requires to consider rated voltage only what is in this > case 560VDC (marked on the label). > > Thank you for your support. > Best regards, > Bostjan > > > > Boštjan Glavič > Laboratory of Electronic Engineering > Head of Laboratory > SIQ Ljubljana, Tržaška cesta 2 > SI-1000 Ljubljana, Slovenia > T: + 386 (0)1 47 78 265 > F: + 386 (0)1 47 78 444 > E-Mail: bostjan.gla...@siq.si > > > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] rapid shut down requirement for solar inverter
Hi Bostjan, With regard to the US, the rapid shutdown requirement is in the 2014 NEC, see 690.12. The NEC is not automatically normative throughout the USA. What is required is controlled at the state and sometimes more local level. More information here http://www.electricalcodecoalition.org/state-adoptions.aspx. It is already mandatory in quite a few states. On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 1:02 AM, Boštjan Glavič bostjan.gla...@siq.si wrote: Dear Experts, Do you know when this requirement will become mandatory in US/CAN? It is intended to protect firemen. Thank you for your support. Best regards, *Boštjan Glavič Laboratory of Electronic Engineering Head of Laboratory *SIQ Ljubljana, Tržaška cesta 2 SI-1000 Ljubljana, Slovenia T: + 386 (0)1 47 78 265 F: + 386 (0)1 47 78 444 E-Mail: bostjan.gla...@siq.si - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;sdoug...@ieee.orgGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] D of C and product safety warnings and caution markings
Hi Ron, Your devices don't fall under the RTTE Directive? There is guidance in the RTTE Directive http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:31999L0005 (see Article 6, 3rd indent) as well as the Guide to the RTTE Directive http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/rtte/files/guide2009-04-20_en.pdf (see section 7.2). The Directive requires a DoC to be provided to the user. The guide indicates that this can be satisfied by including a short statement of compliance in the user info, together with an address or e-mail site where the full DoC can be obtained. On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Ron Baugh ron...@verifone.com wrote: I have a question that has been presented to me for several years now and I need this groups help. When we ship our products to the end user and our products meets all of the LVD requirements (per IEC/EN 60950), we place a physical copy of our D of C with EACH terminal. I have been ask if we could put our D of C on our company web site and make reference, physically on the shipping box to the web address where our D of C would be posted. The issue I need help with is this….. does the D of C have to be shipped physically with EACH product in the shipping box OR can the shipping box have a web address printed on it to direct the end user to our D of C? Also, if the D of C is NOT physically in the shipping box, how does the country customs inspector know if we meet the required EU LVD requirements? Thanks Ron Baugh -- This electronic message, including attachments, is intended only for the use of the individual or company named above or to which it is addressed. The information contained in this message shall be considered confidential and proprietary, and may include confidential work product. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any unauthorized use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and deleting this email immediately. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;sdoug...@ieee.orgGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] D of C and product safety warnings and caution markings
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 2:37 PM, John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk wrote: In message camjgkmyz2lsiuypaqmgod9lfbl86yy1sxw3uaxbtonqgq_6...@mail.gmail.com, dated Thu, 28 May 2015, Scott Aldous 0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org writes: There is guidance in the RTTE Directive (see Article 6, 3rd indent) as well as the Guide to the RTTE Directive (see section 7.2). The Directive requires a DoC to be provided to the user. Is this carried over into the RED? Since copy DoCs have no legal validity, it seems strange that a Directive should may their supply mandatory. Indeed it is. Here is the text from the RED: 9. Manufacturers shall ensure that each item of radio equipment is accompanied by a copy of the EU declaration of conformity or by a simplified EU declaration of conformity. Where a simplified EU declaration of conformity is provided, it shall contain the exact internet address where the full text of the EU declaration of conformity can be obtained. Also from the RED, here is the explanation given for why they did that: (31) The requirement laid down in Directive 1999/5/EC to include an EU declaration of conformity with equipment has been found to simplify and to enhance the information and the efficiency of market surveillance. The possibility to provide a simplified EU declaration of conformity has allowed the burden associated with this requirement to be reduced without reduction of its effectiveness, and should therefore be provided for within this Directive. Furthermore, in order to ensure easy and efficient access to an EU declaration of conformity, including a simplified EU declaration of conformity, it should be possible to affix it to the packaging of the radio equipment concerned. -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Branch and Supplementary Overload Protection
Hi Jim, My comments below are focused on the USA. Will the machine be NRTL Listed as a whole? If not, then branch circuit rated devices will be required in the end installation. If so, then it will be the judgment of the NRTL that does the Listing evaluation. I would expect that they may require that a short circuit current rating be assigned to the machine. The question of whether branch or supplementary overcurrent protection is required internally may depend on the overall short circuit current rating and whether the internal overcurrent devices (and downstream components) can withstand the worst case short circuit currents without giving rise to a hazardous situation. You may want to look at UL 508A, Supplement SB. In that supplement, there is a method to assign a short circuit current rating without test. It assumes a branch circuit rated breaker can withstand 5kA whereas a supplementary protector can only withstand 0.2kA. Of course, testing can be performed instead, or your devices could have different ratings based on their own certifications. Providing an upstream fault current limiting device can be beneficial also. Some additional info from UL here http://ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ul_OvercurrentProtectionSupplementary.pdf . Of course, abnormal tests will also be performed as part of the overall Listing of the machine, with the internal protection and external overcurrent protection in circuit. Results that are dependent on testing may lead you to have to call out a specific external overcurrent protection device in the manual (i.e. the one it was tested with). There may be other considerations specific to the standard(s) applied for Listing. On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 7:40 AM, Jim Hulbert jim.hulb...@pb.com wrote: I have been looking at overload protection requirements for machinery, and I am a little unsure about application of branch protection versus supplementary protection. For example, suppose a machine is powered from AC mains (single phase or 3-phase, I don’t think it matters). The power entry to the machine contains a main disconnect (breaker). The AC power is then distributed within the machine to power supplies, motor controllers, and internal-only outlets. These internal outlets are used during installation by trained service personnel for defined auxiliary devices and are accessible behind tool-accessed covers, not intended for operator access. Each internally distributed circuit is further protected by a overcurrent device (breaker) in addition to the main disconnect breaker. Individual motors have further overcurrent protection. The machine installation requires the customer to provide a dedicated circuit of sufficient capacity for the machine, with a nearby disconnect. Questions: If the facility disconnect is a UL 489 listed circuit breaker that meets the requirements for branch protection, are we required to have additional branch protection within our machine or is supplementary protection sufficient? If we do need branch protection in the machine itself, is it sufficient only for the main disconnect at the power input? Are there differences in the requirements for U.S. and Europe? Thanks. *Jim Hulbert* -- - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;sdoug...@ieee.orgGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http
Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional
A couple of resources that might be helpful: First, a very high level overview https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/agrm4_e.htm#TRS from the WTO. Second, an article http://incompliancemag.com/article/a-primer-on-global-regulatory-requirements-for-ite/ from inCompliance magazine giving basic information on worldwide certifications for ITE, with a focus on EMC. Good luck! On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote: I’m not looking for justification, just a primer on these subjects for the non-engineer. Thank you. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 -- *From: *Richard Nute ri...@ieee.org *Reply-To: *ri...@ieee.org *Date: *Tue, 31 Mar 2015 12:57:08 -0700 *To: *'Ken Javor' ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Subject: *RE: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional Hi Ken: Oh, boy. EMC and safety requirements are a cost without a sale. That is what a VP of marketing told me. For the most part, management would prefer to keep the costs at a minimum. EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that the products must comply with in order to sell in various countries. 1) The requirements must be included in the design of the product. 2) Tests verify that the product complies with the requirements and determine whether the product can bear certification marks. 3) Marks applied to the product attest to compliance with the requirements. 4) For some countries, documents accompanying the product attest to compliance with the requirements. 5) Some countries and certification houses require factory inspection as a condition for marking the product. 6) Some certification houses require periodic factory surveillance. 7) The cost of compliance at our company is… The number of full-time employees in this activity is… I’m sure that you can amplify on any of these points if asked. Good luck, and best regards, Rich *From:* Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Subject:* [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the subject matter for management at a higher level not interested in details? Especially as to impact on selling equipment outside a country’s own borders. Thank you, Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;sdoug...@ieee.orgGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Can Safety Related Instructions be On Line Only?
Hi Jim, For EN 60950, there is an OSM decision that addresses this, basically saying that safety info must be provided in hardcopy form. See sheet number 95/11 from this link: http://www.iecee.org/ctl/osm_sheets/osm-ee_decisions.html UL has a PAG on this as well for UL 60950-1. The reference is 1.7.2-3. Guidelines there are more complicated, and depend on intended application. On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Jim Hulbert jim.hulb...@pb.com wrote: Operator Instructions, including the obligatory safety instructions, are often now provided on a DVD or website. For commercial products, is there a minimum amount of printed instructions that must still be included with the product if the user manual is on line? We have been told in the past by an NRTL that the safety instructions must still be provide in printed form with the product, because the assumption cannot be made that the user can easily access the information on a website. I can’t find where that is stated in the standards, such as ITE Standard UL/EN 60950-1. The standard says the information must be provided to the user, but it doesn’t say in what form it is to be provided. And in the Machinery Standard EN 60204-1, it states that the technical information can be provided in a media that is acceptable to both manufacturer and user. It doesn’t say anything has to be printed. So I guess the question is, is it OK to go 100% electronic? Thanks. Jim Hulbert -- - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;sdoug...@ieee.orgGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] USB Mains Outlet sockets
Hi Charles, Relevant (maybe) is the DOE for External Power Supplies (comes into force in 2016): http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/appliance_standards/product.aspx/productid/23 On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 1:13 PM, Grasso, Charles charles.gra...@echostar.com wrote: Hello Scott - What Energy Star/DoE standards are you referring to? Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications (w) 303-706-5467 (c) 303-204-2974 (t) 3032042...@vtext.com (e) charles.gra...@echostar.com (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com *From:* Scott Aldous [mailto:0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] *Sent:* Friday, March 13, 2015 9:06 AM *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Subject:* Re: [PSES] USB Mains Outlet sockets Hi John, Interesting topic. Yes, these are offered in the US as well. Here's one example: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1693478.pdf According to the datasheet, this product is UL Listed to UL 498 and UL 1310. The online cert directory has this under UL file number E2186. The UL category for this file is RTRT, which typically includes UL 498 only. UL 1310 is the standard for class 2 power supplies. For permanently connected units, the requirement for a disconnect device is that the instruction manual indicate that a disconnect device shall be incorporated in the field wiring - clause 71.2g). I imagine the branch circuit breaker is considered acceptable as a disconnect device in this case. I didn't take the time to search further so don't know if certification to UL 1310 is common for this type of product. If someone at UL judged that it was appropriate, then it well may be since I would guess that most receptacles (if not all) for the US market are going to have UL Listing to meet NEC requirements. Maybe there has been internal discussion at UL regarding whether UL 60950-1 is applicable - I don't know. For energy efficiency, the datasheet makes no reference to efficiency requirements, but does include some power consumption ratings. The no load power consumption stated does not meet guidelines from Energy Star or the US DOE. It stands to reason that these devices should meet all requirements applicable to traditional power supplies. I would think that these would have even more impact on energy consumption since they will likely almost never be disconnected from power. The current regulations were not written with this type of product in mind, so I would guess that they might slip under the radar until formal judgments start to emerge. On the restriction on insulation resistance testing, my guess is that the product that has this restriction may have MOVs or other transient suppression device that wouldn't be happy with a high voltage test. The datasheet I linked to above indicates 2kV dielectric withstand, so maybe it doesn't have the same issue. If there is an installation code in the UK that requires compatibility with regular insulation resistance testing, then I would think these types of products need to be able to withstand such testing or have a means to disconnect to allow the test to be run. Whether ITE, it's hard to imagine how these products could be considered exempt from CE marking. I am curious to know what others have to say. On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 6:50 AM, Pearson, John john.pear...@polycom.com wrote: Here is a Friday discussion topic for you guys. In the UK we are seeing a plethora of aftermarket 250v AC mains outlet sockets which are supplied for installation, it seems by the homeowner, (this has been a traditional practice over here. In the US I understand that this happens less). The advantage of these sockets is that they also give you 2 USB charging ports in the wall as well as two socket outlets. I see large distributors (Screwfix, Amazon.co.uk and Ebuyer for e.g.) selling several https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lap+mains+socketsourceid=ie7rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-Addressie=oe=gfe_rd=crei=edoCVauNDquD8Qekq4HgBQgws_rd=ssl#rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-Addresstbm=shopq=usb+mains+power+socket+outlet . Look out for an explosion of these items is my suspicion as the idea of getting rid of plug in USB chargers is very appealing, even to me! Questions from the compliance side *Energy Efficiency* Single rail PSU’s are subject to mandatory Energy Efficiency marking and performance. All the units I have seen thus far do not mark or declare any performance figures. The PSU being wired into the mains does not to my mind preclude these products from compliance with the Eco-design Directive and 278/2009 specifically, or am I missing something? *Safety of USB port* All of the devices I have seen are stamped with EN 60950-1 on the back thus appear to be purporting compliance this std. Not seen any DoC’s. I do not understand how they can meet the Disconnect Device requirements of CL 3.4 by design unless the mains switches are the disconnect
Re: [PSES] USB Mains Outlet sockets
product issued this http://www.groupgear.co.uk/catalogue/27-2000-Counterfeit-warning.pdf Does outlet sockets require CE marking by the placer on the market and if they also incorporate a PSU for charging ITE product doesn’t it become an ITE product itself subject to EMCD and LVD and thus require CE marking for that purpose also? All this said it seems that they are getting great reviews but likely from the user benefit rather than the above Look forward to interesting responses. John - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;sdoug...@ieee.orgGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] SELV rated power supplies
For the power supplies that are certified by UL under category code QQGQ2, UL does have a standardized table format on their online cert directory that includes a code they call the Output Category. The intent is to identify those supplies that have been evaluated for SELV output, or other types of output. More information can be found in the guide card for that category: http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ2.GuideInfoccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technology+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipment+-+Componentobjid=1073787375cfgid=1073741824version=versionlessparent_id=1073787374sequence=1 On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com wrote: Mr. Nute’s response is significant and is worthy of re-emphasis. And Mr. Woodgate answered this same question to Mr. Nyffenegger previously: The power supply as a whole cannot claim that unless ALL its outputs meet the SELV requirements. But it does meet the requirements for safety isolation, so those outputs that meet the voltage requirements are SELV. SELV, TNVx, LPS, LCC, etc are *specific ratings* that would be indicated in the Conditions of Acceptability in both the test certification document required to bear a CAB’s logo and the respective CB report. And as many power supplies are *components, *the report will be necessarily incomplete; and only the assessment in the end-use construction can provide a complete report. Per Mr. Nute, other than simple flyback converters, most component SMPS are too complex to be evaluated by other than an assessment directed by the original manufacturer (in last 15 years, have encountered only three agency engineers capable of a complete and independent assessment of SMPS). There is never any logical reason to assume a ‘certified’ component power supply will meet any specific ratings unless stated in a CAB’s report. Brian -Original Message- From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 12:55 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] SELV rated power supplies Hi Dave: EN60950-1 is not equal to SELV. Certifications and reports do not necessarily indicate outputs are SELV, although careful reading of the test results can conclude that the outputs are SELV or not. Not all outputs of EN60950-1 power supplies are SELV and need not be. The power supplies are nevertheless EN60950-1 power supplies. The requirement for SELV is whether or not the circuit is accessible. Accessible circuits must be SELV. To perform a single-fault test, one must understand how the circuits operate, and what faults could cause the output to possibly exceed SELV limits. In today's power supply topology, such circuit analysis is not necessarily straight-forward. Your statement Therefore my contention is it cannot be assumed that a power supply listed as EN 60950-1 compliant on a manufacturer's data sheet is also SELV compliant unless explicitly stated so or proven in the test report results. is correct. Best regards, Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;sdoug...@ieee.orgGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott
Re: [PSES] Manufacturer's Stated Accuracy (MSA)
- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;sdoug...@ieee.orgGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] fusing outputs of small power supplies
Hi Bob, I believe that you are concerned about overloading the output wiring beyond its ampacity, so that's what my comment below addresses. Output of 4A at 24Vdc could fall within the guidelines for Class 2 (UL 1310) or Limited Power Source (UL 60950-1) power supplies. If the power supplies you are using are separately certified as Class 2 or LPS, and outputs are not paralleled and run through a single set of wires, then I would guess your certifier may not look any further. Even if this is the case, it would be a good idea to make sure your wiring can carry at least 8A continuously. If this is not the case, then the easy way may be to just test in the end application, as Doug suggested. Also, make sure the input overcurrent protection falls within the guidelines or Conditions of Acceptability of the supplies. On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry all, My decimal place was off. Blame it on thumb typing. That should be 84.6 Watts and for standards like IEC 60950-1 this may indeed meet the 100 VA limit in Table 2B. Doug On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com wrote: Bob, The quickest way to determine the need for output fusing is to do the test. That is a short to the output should not result in a hazard such as spread of fire, electric shock, ejecting of parts, lifted circuit traces, melted insulation, etc. You use the word small, but 4 x 24= 816 watts. By the reckoning of most safety standards this is not low energy, meaning you can achieve ignition. Thanks, - doug Douglas Powell http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 *From: *Bob LaFrance *Sent: *Tuesday, December 23, 2014 11:39 AM *To: *EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Reply To: *Bob LaFrance *Subject: *[PSES] fusing outputs of small power supplies Greetings, I am curious to know what guidelines to use when fusing power supplies. I have a machine with some small 4amp 24v power supplies. I have placed breakers on the input side of supplies. I don’t know if the current limit circuits within the power supply can be expected to protect output wiring. I am mainly concerned with NFPA 7 NEC, but I would like to hear UL or IEC thoughts on the subject. The power supply manufacturers I have asked don’t seem to know – that struck me as very odd. Many years ago I worked for a manufacturer of motor drives. We developed a software implementation of a motor overload relay and got UL 508 blessing. I am looking for similar arrangement. Thank you and Merry Christmas. Bob N9NEO - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com -- Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com Skype: doug.powell52 http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;sdoug...@ieee.orgGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable
Re: [PSES] 60950-1 PSU in a 61010-1 product
=0hKVUfnuoBozYN8UvxPA-wr=RJLDFgHJo89sjFN46b74hFXEuxvz4Z1iAx-glaOgP0km=ItAZAjE5ITF7TMSwtF_e_YWGP5Brw2KYLN56_B7iN24s=B_pFZ6PwqCISYZtGcY_AwA2rpn2Cyv9jqwDFa1qcIx0e= Instructions: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_list.htmld=AwIDaQc=0hKVUfnuoBozYN8UvxPA-wr=RJLDFgHJo89sjFN46b74hFXEuxvz4Z1iAx-glaOgP0km=ItAZAjE5ITF7TMSwtF_e_YWGP5Brw2KYLN56_B7iN24s=UmLkJD2B_PcOSrg9AnKjH3uyiXOTjl5rLmv9sbpFC0Ae= (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_listrules.htmld=AwIDaQc=0hKVUfnuoBozYN8UvxPA-wr=RJLDFgHJo89sjFN46b74hFXEuxvz4Z1iAx-glaOgP0km=ItAZAjE5ITF7TMSwtF_e_YWGP5Brw2KYLN56_B7iN24s=Hq7odB6Vcnf8ANB7DxuPzo04nohHE9L0oxcfiPf5RMse= For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Certification of Unique Equipment
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;sdoug...@ieee.orgGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Arc Flash Requirements NFPA 79
...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Open Protective Earth Conductor Fault
Standards typically apply touch or leakage current limits to plug-connected products. I believe that potential for an unreliable ground connection at the receptacle the product plugs into is at least as important a concern as the potential for faults inside the product itself. For example, in an old house in the USA with 2 prong outlets, it is common for the homeowner to simply use cheater plug adapters to avoid having to connect the ground pin at all. This could well be considered outside the intended use, but people will do it anyway, at least for a consumer product. On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 11:00 PM, John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk wrote: In message 01cffc76$850f8100$8f2e8300$@wellman.com, dated Sun, 9 Nov 2014, Ronald Wellman rwell...@wellman.com writes: I would like to know if anyone has had an experience where a product actually experienced an open protective earth conductor fault after it left the factory. If you have, what was the Root Cause? Two cases: - failure of weld of PE connection stud to metalwork; - enclosure fixing screw severed PE connection in mains cable internal to the product. Both products were small and no excessive touch current occurred. I ask this because there are various standards that allow you to waive the touch current test because of the product connection means to the building branch circuit. Because of this, I would like to know who has actually experienced a touch current hazard and under what conditions. Regardless of what the standard allows, I would measure and minimise touch current, and as far as possible make the internal PE connection secure (i.e. screw or nut and bolt, no welded stud). -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Quid faciamus nisi sit? John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com -- Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Google 650-253-1994 scottald...@google.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
