[Emc-users] cutter radius compensation versus tool table data

[charles green]

i am confused about the treatment of the value used for cutter radius 
compensation.  it looks like the examples in the documentation use a program 
command to write a radius value in the tool table, but when i edit the tool 
table from axis, there is a diameter value column.  are g41/42 using half this 
diameter value when they are fed a D number?  or is the value in the D column 
treated as a radius?  and G10 L1 P# Rr => D# = 2*r in the tool table?  (i guess 
that's an easy experiment.)

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[Joachim Franek]

On Tuesday 29 May 2012 07:00:50 Jeshua Lacock wrote:
> I have been dreaming of making a removable plastic extruder nozzle for my 
> machine. It would turn it into a *huge* 3D printer.
> So I read this page with great interest:
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5233
 
Greetings all,

Which "extruder controller board" is used?

I have http://shop.arcol.hu/item/arcol-hu-hot-end-v4-unassembled-035
and a wire feeder with a stepper motor and a small mill with LCNC. 
I am looking for a solution for the analog a/d part with a resolution of 12 bit
with interface to LCNC (temperatur control of head and bed).

Joachim 

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[andy pugh]

On 29 May 2012 06:00, Jeshua Lacock  wrote:

> Is it possible to make those changes to LinuxCNC? In other words, can 
> LinuxCNC currently command a serial port using those additional M words?

M100-M199 can easily call a shell script, and a shell script can write
to a serial port.
http://superuser.com/questions/301753/how-do-i-print-directly-to-lpt-port-in-ubuntu

Why not control the temperature with a PWM direct from LinuxCNC?

Alternatively, you  could use an Arduino:
http://axis.unpy.net/01198594294

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[andy pugh]

On 29 May 2012 08:48, Joachim Franek  wrote:

> I am looking for a solution for the analog a/d part with a resolution of 12 
> bit
> with interface to LCNC (temperatur control of head and bed).

An Arduino is one solution. http://axis.unpy.net/01198594294

Another idea is to use PWM output and a comparator. This would need a
hal compoenent to be written.
The idea is that the PWM is converted to analogue voltage (with
optical isolation this could even be mains voltage). A comparator chip
then sets an input bit depending on whether the PWM voltage is over or
under the voltage to be measured. A simple inc/dec or P controller
adjusts the PWM duty cycle to track the measured voltage.

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[Michael Haberler]

Jeshua,

wrt the words, assuming you look at the master branch

The existing 'S' (spindle speed) and 'F' (feed) can be redefined with an NGC 
procedure or Python code.
New 'M' codes can be either introduced by the same method, or the 'M100 to M199 
User Defined Commands' feature

see documentation here, 
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/remap/structure.html and 
configs/sim/remap for examples

I'm not sure that the F on each line per se would actually be a problem with 
linuxcnc, as I dont understand what 'totally messing up Mach3's movement' means 
in this context

re serial I/O: it would be straighforward to build a HAL component which takes 
a float input pin and outputs some serial command if its value changes.

---

let me know when you start working on it, I'willing to help a bit. I think it 
would be great to have a working config for linuxcnc demonstrating how it can 
drive a 3D printer.

- Michael

Am 29.05.2012 um 07:00 schrieb Jeshua Lacock:

> 
> Greetings all,
> 
> I have been dreaming of making a removable plastic extruder nozzle for my 
> machine. It would turn it into a *huge* 3D printer.
> 
> So I read this page with great interest:
> 
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5233
> 
> Is it possible to make those changes to LinuxCNC? In other words, can 
> LinuxCNC currently command a serial port using those additional M words?
> 
> If not, I would be willing to write some code and commit it. Some advice to 
> help me get started would be extremely helpful as I have never looked at the 
> branch.  
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jeshua Lacock
> Founder/Engineer
> 3DTOPO Incorporated
> 
> Phone: 208.462.4171
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[Joachim Franek]

On Tuesday 29 May 2012 11:26:14 andy pugh wrote:
> On 29 May 2012 08:48, Joachim Franek  wrote:
> 
> > I am looking for a solution for the analog a/d part with a resolution of 12 
> > bit
> > with interface to LCNC (temperatur control of head and bed).
> 
> An Arduino is one solution. http://axis.unpy.net/01198594294
10 bit ad resolution. 

> Another idea is to use PWM output and a comparator. This would need a
> hal compoenent to be written.
> The idea is that the PWM is converted to analogue voltage (with
> optical isolation this could even be mains voltage). A comparator chip
> then sets an input bit depending on whether the PWM voltage is over or
> under the voltage to be measured. A simple inc/dec or P controller
> adjusts the PWM duty cycle to track the measured voltage.
Tricky. Advantage is only two pins on the parport for 1 ad conversion
and software only in hal. For debug: halscope.
Summary: easy and cheap solution (if timeconstant is low of analog input)

Thanks Andy,
Joachim 

 

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

I spent the day swapping out the 15hp idler in the RPC for my 10hp idler 
(much quieter by far) and balancing the RPC per the directions in the 
Fitch pdf. I did notice that my Vac and Vbc was reversed from his chart 
no matter what I tried. In the end I had Vab 244, Vac 252, Vbc 252, Va 
122, Vb 122, Vc 212 with c being the generated leg.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/FitchWConverter.pdf

I did a test run and it would take a S3000 M3 without an error, above 
that it would error out. Then I remembered that I had the taps wrong on 
the step up transformer. I changed them from 208 to 240 and it would 
error out at S2000. I moved the taps to the 220 lugs but ran out of time 
to test it.

Just to recap a bit everything including the RPC is grounded to a common 
ground. The RPC does not have a neutral. The inputs to the machine are 3 
phase + ground. The only neutral in the machine is from the step down 
transformer for the 120vac circuits. The Simodrive 611 is grounded to 
the same common ground.

I won't have much time today but I'll try and test a few more things and 
gather up the part numbers and call the Siemens tech support line 
Wednesday to see what they say. I do have a small line reactor that I 
plan on hooking up just to scope what it might do. Line reactors are 
cheap compared to other options...

Thanks
John

On 5/28/2012 12:37 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> John Thornton wrote:
>> I've been searching for "isolation transformer" but they all seem to be
>> 480 to 240 or similar. Not had any luck so far on finding a 240-240
>> transformer.
>>
> Many dry transformers that do 480 - 240 can be restrapped for
> 240 -240.  Also, voltage adjusting transformers can often be
> set for 1:1 ratio.  Especially in the delta-wye use where a
> neutral needs to be derived from a delta substation.
>
> Still, I'm not sure this will solve your problem, if the phase
> converter is unbalanced.  I'd try to improve the balance first,
> before adding another half ton box to your shop.
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

While laying on the floor to change taps yesterday on the step up 
transformer I noticed it says INPUT WYE. The transformer has 3 sets of 3 
lugs for input 208, 220, 240. The only other wires on the transformer 
are 3 lugs for 390v to the infeed unit and 3 lugs at 480v for the 
cooling pump. The step up transformer frame is grounded to the same 
place as everything else in the machine.

John

On 5/28/2012 8:34 PM, Dave wrote:
> Yes, many/most big servo drive systems that I have worked on use a Delta
> primary - Wye secondary with a grounded neutral.
>
> I think the grounded neutral on the Wye keeps the voltage in check on
> the drive capacitors from a line to ground standpoint.
>
> I've purchased this type of  transformer for a couple of different servo
> projects.  They tend to start at about 10 KVA and cost about $1200 at
> that size.
>
> I think I have a 6 KVA unit in my shop.  Hmm... come to think of it, I
> have used that transformer to power Siemens VFDs and Parker servo drives
> off of my rotary phase converter without any problems.
>
> If you were closer, I'd loan it to you.
>
> Delta primary, Wye secondary transformers are pretty common around
> here.   But many are sold  specifically as drive isolation transformers.
>
> You have a step up transformer in your machine right now though, prior
> to your Siemens 611U power input module (fancy DC power supply);   How
> is that wired?
>
> Dave
>
> On 5/28/2012 8:05 AM, John Thornton wrote:
>> Gene,
>>
>> The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need balanced
>> voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after their device. So
>> I have to assume they are out there but so far my google only turns up
>> descriptions of the beast.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 5/27/2012 4:09 PM, gene heskett wrote:
>>
>>> Now, here John, is another thought if my train of thought follows and this
>>> thing is hooked up delta on the outside, but is 3 individual loads to
>>> ground inside the kit, and which I can see objecting to the over voltages
>>> the phase converter generates,you might be very pleased with how it works
>>> IF you interpose a 3 phase transformer between your phase converter output
>>> and the supply to this kit.  Hook the input side up as a delta load,
>>> ignoring the center of the wye this idler motor has AND the center of the
>>> primary side wye (other than making sure, if it has individual bolts per
>>> phase, that they are connected together).
>>>
>>> Then ground to the machines neutral and effectively to ground, the center
>>> of the wye of this 3 phase 1/1 transformers secondary, and feed your kit
>>> with the outside 3 corners of the wye.  That should go a long ways to
>>> restore the "to ground" voltage balances.  The transformer will of course
>>> need to be rated at about 125% of the kits actual load.  And not having
>>> researched it, I'd have no clue as to the ready availability of such a
>>> beast.
>>>
>>> Doing a google search, I came across this:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> which might make it a bit clearer than my word pictures.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene.
>>>
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Re: [Emc-users] cutter radius compensation versus tool table data

[John Thornton]

Actually the docs should/will say Cutter Diameter Compensation to avoid 
that confusion. And yes your correct the radius is calculated from the 
diameter information to do the actual offsetting.

Do you have a link to the example that is confusing?

John

On 5/29/2012 2:13 AM, charles green wrote:
> i am confused about the treatment of the value used for cutter radius 
> compensation.  it looks like the examples in the documentation use a program 
> command to write a radius value in the tool table, but when i edit the tool 
> table from axis, there is a diameter value column.  are g41/42 using half 
> this diameter value when they are fed a D number?  or is the value in the D 
> column treated as a radius?  and G10 L1 P# Rr =>  D# = 2*r in the tool table? 
>  (i guess that's an easy experiment.)
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 07:33:26 AM John Thornton did opine:

> While laying on the floor to change taps yesterday on the step up
> transformer I noticed it says INPUT WYE. The transformer has 3 sets of 3
> lugs for input 208, 220, 240. The only other wires on the transformer
> are 3 lugs for 390v to the infeed unit and 3 lugs at 480v for the
> cooling pump. The step up transformer frame is grounded to the same
> place as everything else in the machine.
> 
> John
> 
You said "INPUT WYE", but made no mention of a center N connection.  How 
can it be a WYE if there is not a neutral?  Perhaps I'm still a pint low on 
coffee?

More to the point, what voltage do you actually measure, to ground, from 
those 390 volt points?

> On 5/28/2012 8:34 PM, Dave wrote:
> > Yes, many/most big servo drive systems that I have worked on use a
> > Delta primary - Wye secondary with a grounded neutral.
> > 
> > I think the grounded neutral on the Wye keeps the voltage in check on
> > the drive capacitors from a line to ground standpoint.
> > 
> > I've purchased this type of  transformer for a couple of different
> > servo projects.  They tend to start at about 10 KVA and cost about
> > $1200 at that size.
> > 
> > I think I have a 6 KVA unit in my shop.  Hmm... come to think of it, I
> > have used that transformer to power Siemens VFDs and Parker servo
> > drives off of my rotary phase converter without any problems.
> > 
> > If you were closer, I'd loan it to you.
> > 
> > Delta primary, Wye secondary transformers are pretty common around
> > here.   But many are sold  specifically as drive isolation
> > transformers.
> > 
> > You have a step up transformer in your machine right now though, prior
> > to your Siemens 611U power input module (fancy DC power supply);   How
> > is that wired?
> > 
> > Dave
> > 
> > On 5/28/2012 8:05 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> >> Gene,
> >> 
> >> The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need
> >> balanced voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after
> >> their device. So I have to assume they are out there but so far my
> >> google only turns up descriptions of the beast.
> >> 
> >> John
> >> 
> >> On 5/27/2012 4:09 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> >>> Now, here John, is another thought if my train of thought follows
> >>> and this thing is hooked up delta on the outside, but is 3
> >>> individual loads to ground inside the kit, and which I can see
> >>> objecting to the over voltages the phase converter generates,you
> >>> might be very pleased with how it works IF you interpose a 3 phase
> >>> transformer between your phase converter output and the supply to
> >>> this kit.  Hook the input side up as a delta load, ignoring the
> >>> center of the wye this idler motor has AND the center of the
> >>> primary side wye (other than making sure, if it has individual
> >>> bolts per phase, that they are connected together).
> >>> 
> >>> Then ground to the machines neutral and effectively to ground, the
> >>> center of the wye of this 3 phase 1/1 transformers secondary, and
> >>> feed your kit with the outside 3 corners of the wye.  That should
> >>> go a long ways to restore the "to ground" voltage balances.  The
> >>> transformer will of course need to be rated at about 125% of the
> >>> kits actual load.  And not having researched it, I'd have no clue
> >>> as to the ready availability of such a beast.
> >>> 
> >>> Doing a google search, I came across this:
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> which might make it a bit clearer than my word pictures.
> >>> 
> >>> Cheers, Gene.
> >> 
> >> -
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

I filled out the quote form to see what they say.

John

On 5/28/2012 11:12 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Monday, May 28, 2012 11:53:29 AM John Thornton did opine:
>
>> Gene,
>>
>> The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need balanced
>> voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after their device. So
>> I have to assume they are out there but so far my google only turns up
>> descriptions of the beast.
>>
>> John
> These people have made transformers for me several times, at what I
> considered at the time to be great prices, considering it was usually
> needed yesterday if not before.  Dating back to 1985, none of the 3
> replacements they made me for that old GE transmitter has ever failed.
> Good stuff.
>
> 
>
> This is an arm of Peter Dahl, (or vice-versa) and their products use modern
> grain oriented steel laminations, which made their product more efficient
> by far than the 1950's style OEM transformer it was replacing AND about
> half the weight because of the improved efficiency.
>
> The most recent, and smallest one they made had about a 10kw rating, a
> plate transformer for the 5kw rated driver cabinet of a 35kw rated big box,
> came in the door at less than $2k at the time, and in only 10 days, which
> is now about 15 years back up the log.  How they might compete today, I
> have no clue, but they have been keeping broadcasters with old transmitters
> on the air for at least 50 years.
>
> I'd be interested in what your quote might be.
>
> Cheers, Gene

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

There is no N connection on the transformer so I remain confused as well 
and I'm on my second cup of joe. I didn't measure the 390v to ground but 
I assume one leg is pretty high, but I can wander out and measure it 
easy enough.

John

On 5/29/2012 6:44 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 07:33:26 AM John Thornton did opine:
>
>> While laying on the floor to change taps yesterday on the step up
>> transformer I noticed it says INPUT WYE. The transformer has 3 sets of 3
>> lugs for input 208, 220, 240. The only other wires on the transformer
>> are 3 lugs for 390v to the infeed unit and 3 lugs at 480v for the
>> cooling pump. The step up transformer frame is grounded to the same
>> place as everything else in the machine.
>>
>> John
>>
> You said "INPUT WYE", but made no mention of a center N connection.  How
> can it be a WYE if there is not a neutral?  Perhaps I'm still a pint low on
> coffee?
>
> More to the point, what voltage do you actually measure, to ground, from
> those 390 volt points?
>
>> On 5/28/2012 8:34 PM, Dave wrote:
>>> Yes, many/most big servo drive systems that I have worked on use a
>>> Delta primary - Wye secondary with a grounded neutral.
>>>
>>> I think the grounded neutral on the Wye keeps the voltage in check on
>>> the drive capacitors from a line to ground standpoint.
>>>
>>> I've purchased this type of  transformer for a couple of different
>>> servo projects.  They tend to start at about 10 KVA and cost about
>>> $1200 at that size.
>>>
>>> I think I have a 6 KVA unit in my shop.  Hmm... come to think of it, I
>>> have used that transformer to power Siemens VFDs and Parker servo
>>> drives off of my rotary phase converter without any problems.
>>>
>>> If you were closer, I'd loan it to you.
>>>
>>> Delta primary, Wye secondary transformers are pretty common around
>>> here.   But many are sold  specifically as drive isolation
>>> transformers.
>>>
>>> You have a step up transformer in your machine right now though, prior
>>> to your Siemens 611U power input module (fancy DC power supply);   How
>>> is that wired?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On 5/28/2012 8:05 AM, John Thornton wrote:
 Gene,

 The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need
 balanced voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after
 their device. So I have to assume they are out there but so far my
 google only turns up descriptions of the beast.

 John

 On 5/27/2012 4:09 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> Now, here John, is another thought if my train of thought follows
> and this thing is hooked up delta on the outside, but is 3
> individual loads to ground inside the kit, and which I can see
> objecting to the over voltages the phase converter generates,you
> might be very pleased with how it works IF you interpose a 3 phase
> transformer between your phase converter output and the supply to
> this kit.  Hook the input side up as a delta load, ignoring the
> center of the wye this idler motor has AND the center of the
> primary side wye (other than making sure, if it has individual
> bolts per phase, that they are connected together).
>
> Then ground to the machines neutral and effectively to ground, the
> center of the wye of this 3 phase 1/1 transformers secondary, and
> feed your kit with the outside 3 corners of the wye.  That should
> go a long ways to restore the "to ground" voltage balances.  The
> transformer will of course need to be rated at about 125% of the
> kits actual load.  And not having researched it, I'd have no clue
> as to the ready availability of such a beast.
>
> Doing a google search, I came across this:
>
> 
>
> which might make it a bit clearer than my word pictures.
>
> Cheers, Gene.
 -
 - Live Security Virtual Conference
 Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
 threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
 Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the
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Re: [Emc-users] cutter radius compensation versus tool table data

[andy pugh]

On 29 May 2012 12:30, John Thornton  wrote:
> Actually the docs should/will say Cutter Diameter Compensation to avoid
> that confusion.

Even for a lathe?

-- 
atp
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 07:48:08 AM John Thornton did opine:

> I filled out the quote form to see what they say.
> 
> John
> 
Yes, thanks.

I have another wild idea, your Vab, Vac, Vbc voltages would appear to be 
moderately well balanced, as they should be.  The generated C, measured to 
ground, is quite hot as is also expected.  So a set of readings to ground 
from the taps labeled 390 are the next bits of data I need to cogitate on.

Hook the meter up cold with clip leads, than power up just long enough to 
take the reading of course, we sure don't need a fried John.

I can personally testify that that is not a pleasant experience, and 
neither was the shingles it triggered.  If you survive the burns, they are 
a minor detail, but the shingles will recalibrate even a diabetics pain 
threshold, upward by about an order of magnitude.

> On 5/28/2012 11:12 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Monday, May 28, 2012 11:53:29 AM John Thornton did opine:
> >> Gene,
> >> 
> >> The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need
> >> balanced voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after
> >> their device. So I have to assume they are out there but so far my
> >> google only turns up descriptions of the beast.
> >> 
> >> John

Can they supply a suitably sized "matching" device?  It would seem to me 
they are missing the chance to make a higher profit if they did not do so.  
Not being able to supply a complete solution would not make business sense 
to me if I was PhasePerfect.  But I'm not, so...

> > These people have made transformers for me several times, at what I
> > considered at the time to be great prices, considering it was usually
> > needed yesterday if not before.  Dating back to 1985, none of the 3
> > replacements they made me for that old GE transmitter has ever failed.
> > Good stuff.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > This is an arm of Peter Dahl, (or vice-versa) and their products use
> > modern grain oriented steel laminations, which made their product
> > more efficient by far than the 1950's style OEM transformer it was
> > replacing AND about half the weight because of the improved
> > efficiency.
> > 
> > The most recent, and smallest one they made had about a 10kw rating, a
> > plate transformer for the 5kw rated driver cabinet of a 35kw rated big
> > box, came in the door at less than $2k at the time, and in only 10
> > days, which is now about 15 years back up the log.  How they might
> > compete today, I have no clue, but they have been keeping
> > broadcasters with old transmitters on the air for at least 50 years.
> > 
> > I'd be interested in what your quote might be.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> 
> -- Live Security Virtual Conference
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> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the
> latest in malware threats.
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Cheers, Gene
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

Well I'll be a monkeys uncle, the step up transformer does have a N lug 
but nothing is connected to it.

Voltages at the drive input are
UV 525
UW 512
VW 508
Ug 225
Vg 225
Wg 370

John

On 5/29/2012 6:44 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 07:33:26 AM John Thornton did opine:
>
>> While laying on the floor to change taps yesterday on the step up
>> transformer I noticed it says INPUT WYE. The transformer has 3 sets of 3
>> lugs for input 208, 220, 240. The only other wires on the transformer
>> are 3 lugs for 390v to the infeed unit and 3 lugs at 480v for the
>> cooling pump. The step up transformer frame is grounded to the same
>> place as everything else in the machine.
>>
>> John
>>
> You said "INPUT WYE", but made no mention of a center N connection.  How
> can it be a WYE if there is not a neutral?  Perhaps I'm still a pint low on
> coffee?
>
> More to the point, what voltage do you actually measure, to ground, from
> those 390 volt points?
>
>> On 5/28/2012 8:34 PM, Dave wrote:
>>> Yes, many/most big servo drive systems that I have worked on use a
>>> Delta primary - Wye secondary with a grounded neutral.
>>>
>>> I think the grounded neutral on the Wye keeps the voltage in check on
>>> the drive capacitors from a line to ground standpoint.
>>>
>>> I've purchased this type of  transformer for a couple of different
>>> servo projects.  They tend to start at about 10 KVA and cost about
>>> $1200 at that size.
>>>
>>> I think I have a 6 KVA unit in my shop.  Hmm... come to think of it, I
>>> have used that transformer to power Siemens VFDs and Parker servo
>>> drives off of my rotary phase converter without any problems.
>>>
>>> If you were closer, I'd loan it to you.
>>>
>>> Delta primary, Wye secondary transformers are pretty common around
>>> here.   But many are sold  specifically as drive isolation
>>> transformers.
>>>
>>> You have a step up transformer in your machine right now though, prior
>>> to your Siemens 611U power input module (fancy DC power supply);   How
>>> is that wired?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On 5/28/2012 8:05 AM, John Thornton wrote:
 Gene,

 The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need
 balanced voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after
 their device. So I have to assume they are out there but so far my
 google only turns up descriptions of the beast.

 John

 On 5/27/2012 4:09 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> Now, here John, is another thought if my train of thought follows
> and this thing is hooked up delta on the outside, but is 3
> individual loads to ground inside the kit, and which I can see
> objecting to the over voltages the phase converter generates,you
> might be very pleased with how it works IF you interpose a 3 phase
> transformer between your phase converter output and the supply to
> this kit.  Hook the input side up as a delta load, ignoring the
> center of the wye this idler motor has AND the center of the
> primary side wye (other than making sure, if it has individual
> bolts per phase, that they are connected together).
>
> Then ground to the machines neutral and effectively to ground, the
> center of the wye of this 3 phase 1/1 transformers secondary, and
> feed your kit with the outside 3 corners of the wye.  That should
> go a long ways to restore the "to ground" voltage balances.  The
> transformer will of course need to be rated at about 125% of the
> kits actual load.  And not having researched it, I'd have no clue
> as to the ready availability of such a beast.
>
> Doing a google search, I came across this:
>
> 
>
> which might make it a bit clearer than my word pictures.
>
> Cheers, Gene.
 -
 - Live Security Virtual Conference
 Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
 threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
 Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the
 latest in malware threats.
 http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>> --
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>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>> Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the
>>> latest in malware threats.
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>>> https://

Re: [Emc-users] cutter radius compensation versus tool table data

[John Thornton]

Yea, the tool table is diameter as well as all the G codes no matter if 
your in lathe mode or not.

John

On 5/29/2012 7:03 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 29 May 2012 12:30, John Thornton  wrote:
>> Actually the docs should/will say Cutter Diameter Compensation to avoid
>> that confusion.
> Even for a lathe?
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

It seems that phase perfect works together with

http://www.transformeronline.com/prices/threephasetransformer.htm

The have several sizes of 240 delta to 208 Y... how do you pick a size?

John

On 5/29/2012 7:09 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 07:48:08 AM John Thornton did opine:
>
>> I filled out the quote form to see what they say.
>>
>> John
>>
> Yes, thanks.
>
> I have another wild idea, your Vab, Vac, Vbc voltages would appear to be
> moderately well balanced, as they should be.  The generated C, measured to
> ground, is quite hot as is also expected.  So a set of readings to ground
> from the taps labeled 390 are the next bits of data I need to cogitate on.
>
> Hook the meter up cold with clip leads, than power up just long enough to
> take the reading of course, we sure don't need a fried John.
>
> I can personally testify that that is not a pleasant experience, and
> neither was the shingles it triggered.  If you survive the burns, they are
> a minor detail, but the shingles will recalibrate even a diabetics pain
> threshold, upward by about an order of magnitude.
>
>> On 5/28/2012 11:12 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>>> On Monday, May 28, 2012 11:53:29 AM John Thornton did opine:
 Gene,

 The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need
 balanced voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after
 their device. So I have to assume they are out there but so far my
 google only turns up descriptions of the beast.

 John
> Can they supply a suitably sized "matching" device?  It would seem to me
> they are missing the chance to make a higher profit if they did not do so.
> Not being able to supply a complete solution would not make business sense
> to me if I was PhasePerfect.  But I'm not, so...
>
>>> These people have made transformers for me several times, at what I
>>> considered at the time to be great prices, considering it was usually
>>> needed yesterday if not before.  Dating back to 1985, none of the 3
>>> replacements they made me for that old GE transmitter has ever failed.
>>> Good stuff.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> This is an arm of Peter Dahl, (or vice-versa) and their products use
>>> modern grain oriented steel laminations, which made their product
>>> more efficient by far than the 1950's style OEM transformer it was
>>> replacing AND about half the weight because of the improved
>>> efficiency.
>>>
>>> The most recent, and smallest one they made had about a 10kw rating, a
>>> plate transformer for the 5kw rated driver cabinet of a 35kw rated big
>>> box, came in the door at less than $2k at the time, and in only 10
>>> days, which is now about 15 years back up the log.  How they might
>>> compete today, I have no clue, but they have been keeping
>>> broadcasters with old transmitters on the air for at least 50 years.
>>>
>>> I'd be interested in what your quote might be.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene
>> 
>> -- Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>> Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the
>> latest in malware threats.
>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene

--
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 08:34:33 AM John Thornton did opine:

> Well I'll be a monkeys uncle, the step up transformer does have a N lug
> but nothing is connected to it.
> 
> Voltages at the drive input are
> UV 525
> UW 512
> VW 508

And those 3 are 390v lug to 390v lug of a different phase?
That seems high.

> Ug 225
> Vg 225
> Wg 370

And these 3 are 390v lugs when measured to ground?
Seems low except for the last one.

Are all "input" connections to the same voltage taps?

You reported that when you changed taps to a higher voltage, you faulted at 
a lower S value, so...

What happens when you put the UV feeds on the 208 labeled lugs, and the W 
on the 240 lug?  Use the Sm3 to see how large an  it takes to fault 
it.  Then move W to the 220 tap and repeat.  If better, move W to the 208 
lug.  I'm getting the impression it may be starved a bit.

> John
> 
> On 5/29/2012 6:44 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 07:33:26 AM John Thornton did opine:
> >> While laying on the floor to change taps yesterday on the step up
> >> transformer I noticed it says INPUT WYE. The transformer has 3 sets
> >> of 3 lugs for input 208, 220, 240. The only other wires on the
> >> transformer are 3 lugs for 390v to the infeed unit and 3 lugs at
> >> 480v for the cooling pump. The step up transformer frame is grounded
> >> to the same place as everything else in the machine.
> >> 
> >> John
> > 
> > You said "INPUT WYE", but made no mention of a center N connection. 
> > How can it be a WYE if there is not a neutral?  Perhaps I'm still a
> > pint low on coffee?
> > 
> > More to the point, what voltage do you actually measure, to ground,
> > from those 390 volt points?
> > 
> >> On 5/28/2012 8:34 PM, Dave wrote:
> >>> Yes, many/most big servo drive systems that I have worked on use a
> >>> Delta primary - Wye secondary with a grounded neutral.
> >>> 
> >>> I think the grounded neutral on the Wye keeps the voltage in check
> >>> on the drive capacitors from a line to ground standpoint.
> >>> 
> >>> I've purchased this type of  transformer for a couple of different
> >>> servo projects.  They tend to start at about 10 KVA and cost about
> >>> $1200 at that size.
> >>> 
> >>> I think I have a 6 KVA unit in my shop.  Hmm... come to think of it,
> >>> I have used that transformer to power Siemens VFDs and Parker servo
> >>> drives off of my rotary phase converter without any problems.
> >>> 
> >>> If you were closer, I'd loan it to you.
> >>> 
> >>> Delta primary, Wye secondary transformers are pretty common around
> >>> here.   But many are sold  specifically as drive isolation
> >>> transformers.
> >>> 
> >>> You have a step up transformer in your machine right now though,
> >>> prior to your Siemens 611U power input module (fancy DC power
> >>> supply);   How is that wired?
> >>> 
> >>> Dave
> >>> 
> >>> On 5/28/2012 8:05 AM, John Thornton wrote:
>  Gene,
>  
>  The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need
>  balanced voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after
>  their device. So I have to assume they are out there but so far my
>  google only turns up descriptions of the beast.
>  
>  John
>  
>  On 5/27/2012 4:09 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> > Now, here John, is another thought if my train of thought follows
> > and this thing is hooked up delta on the outside, but is 3
> > individual loads to ground inside the kit, and which I can see
> > objecting to the over voltages the phase converter generates,you
> > might be very pleased with how it works IF you interpose a 3 phase
> > transformer between your phase converter output and the supply to
> > this kit.  Hook the input side up as a delta load, ignoring the
> > center of the wye this idler motor has AND the center of the
> > primary side wye (other than making sure, if it has individual
> > bolts per phase, that they are connected together).
> > 
> > Then ground to the machines neutral and effectively to ground, the
> > center of the wye of this 3 phase 1/1 transformers secondary, and
> > feed your kit with the outside 3 corners of the wye.  That should
> > go a long ways to restore the "to ground" voltage balances.  The
> > transformer will of course need to be rated at about 125% of the
> > kits actual load.  And not having researched it, I'd have no clue
> > as to the ready availability of such a beast.
> > 
> > Doing a google search, I came across this:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > which might make it a bit clearer than my word pictures.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene.
>  
>  ---
>  -- - Live Security Virtual Conference
>  Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>  threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> >>

Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 09:02:11 AM John Thornton did opine:

> It seems that phase perfect works together with
> 
> http://www.transformeronline.com/prices/threephasetransformer.htm
> 
> The have several sizes of 240 delta to 208 Y... how do you pick a size?
> 
> John
> 
Is there a nameplate somewhere that quotes the maximum KVA of its draw?  
Then pick the next one up.

Those prices look pretty good from here.

> On 5/29/2012 7:09 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 07:48:08 AM John Thornton did opine:
> >> I filled out the quote form to see what they say.
> >> 
> >> John
> > 
> > Yes, thanks.
> > 
> > I have another wild idea, your Vab, Vac, Vbc voltages would appear to
> > be moderately well balanced, as they should be.  The generated C,
> > measured to ground, is quite hot as is also expected.  So a set of
> > readings to ground from the taps labeled 390 are the next bits of
> > data I need to cogitate on.
> > 
> > Hook the meter up cold with clip leads, than power up just long enough
> > to take the reading of course, we sure don't need a fried John.
> > 
> > I can personally testify that that is not a pleasant experience, and
> > neither was the shingles it triggered.  If you survive the burns, they
> > are a minor detail, but the shingles will recalibrate even a
> > diabetics pain threshold, upward by about an order of magnitude.
> > 
> >> On 5/28/2012 11:12 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> >>> On Monday, May 28, 2012 11:53:29 AM John Thornton did opine:
>  Gene,
>  
>  The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need
>  balanced voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after
>  their device. So I have to assume they are out there but so far my
>  google only turns up descriptions of the beast.
>  
>  John
> > 
> > Can they supply a suitably sized "matching" device?  It would seem to
> > me they are missing the chance to make a higher profit if they did
> > not do so. Not being able to supply a complete solution would not
> > make business sense to me if I was PhasePerfect.  But I'm not, so...
> > 
> >>> These people have made transformers for me several times, at what I
> >>> considered at the time to be great prices, considering it was
> >>> usually needed yesterday if not before.  Dating back to 1985, none
> >>> of the 3 replacements they made me for that old GE transmitter has
> >>> ever failed. Good stuff.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> This is an arm of Peter Dahl, (or vice-versa) and their products use
> >>> modern grain oriented steel laminations, which made their product
> >>> more efficient by far than the 1950's style OEM transformer it was
> >>> replacing AND about half the weight because of the improved
> >>> efficiency.
> >>> 
> >>> The most recent, and smallest one they made had about a 10kw rating,
> >>> a plate transformer for the 5kw rated driver cabinet of a 35kw
> >>> rated big box, came in the door at less than $2k at the time, and
> >>> in only 10 days, which is now about 15 years back up the log.  How
> >>> they might compete today, I have no clue, but they have been
> >>> keeping
> >>> broadcasters with old transmitters on the air for at least 50 years.
> >>> 
> >>> I'd be interested in what your quote might be.
> >>> 
> >>> Cheers, Gene
> >> 
> >> -
> >> --- -- Live Security Virtual Conference
> >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> >> Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the
> >> latest in malware threats.
> >> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> 
> -- Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the
> latest in malware threats.
> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: 
No two persons ever read the same book.
-- Edmund Wilson

--
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Re: [Emc-users] cutter radius compensation versus tool table data

[charles green]

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/

and then looked at

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode/tool_compensation.html#_tool_table_a_id_sec_tool_table_a

and

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode/tool_compensation.html#_cutter_radius_compensation_a_id_sec_cutter_radius_compensation_a

i think.  it looks like there may be multiple instances of links to parts of 
documentation, and i cant say if the landing spot is the same in every case.  
the examples for cutter comp have pictures of of part and path, and code 
fragments with g10 in the introduction.

i did the g10 experiment and found that the commanded R value was entered as 
R*2 in the .tbl file.  i also tried putting an R0.1 in the .tbl file, and that 
generated a "bogus lines ignored" message from axis tool table edit.


--- On Tue, 5/29/12, John Thornton  wrote:

> From: John Thornton 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] cutter radius compensation versus tool table data
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Date: Tuesday, May 29, 2012, 4:30 AM
> Actually the docs should/will say
> Cutter Diameter Compensation to avoid 
> that confusion. And yes your correct the radius is
> calculated from the 
> diameter information to do the actual offsetting.
> 
> Do you have a link to the example that is confusing?
> 
> John
> 
> On 5/29/2012 2:13 AM, charles green wrote:
> > i am confused about the treatment of the value used for
> cutter radius compensation.  it looks like the examples
> in the documentation use a program command to write a radius
> value in the tool table, but when i edit the tool table from
> axis, there is a diameter value column.  are g41/42
> using half this diameter value when they are fed a D
> number?  or is the value in the D column treated as a
> radius?  and G10 L1 P# Rr =>  D# = 2*r in the
> tool table?  (i guess that's an easy experiment.)
> >
> >
> --
> > Live Security Virtual Conference
> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's
> security and
> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can
> respond. Discussions
> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the
> latest in malware
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Re: [Emc-users] cutter radius compensation versus tool table data

[charles green]

why should one linear axis have a metric that is 2x or 1/2x any of the others, 
even on a lathe?

--- On Tue, 5/29/12, andy pugh  wrote:

> From: andy pugh 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] cutter radius compensation versus tool table data
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Date: Tuesday, May 29, 2012, 5:03 AM
> On 29 May 2012 12:30, John Thornton
> 
> wrote:
> > Actually the docs should/will say Cutter Diameter
> Compensation to avoid
> > that confusion.
> 
> Even for a lathe?
> 
> -- 
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] cutter radius compensation versus tool table data

[John Thornton]

Typically inserts used in a lathe have the nose radius measurement not 
the effective diameter. So for lathe tooling you have to double the nose 
radius to put an entry into the tool table. Also important for a lathe 
is the tool orientation...

Give the online docs about an hour to update and see if they are less 
confusing now.

John

On 5/29/2012 8:08 AM, charles green wrote:
> why should one linear axis have a metric that is 2x or 1/2x any of the 
> others, even on a lathe?
>
> --- On Tue, 5/29/12, andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> From: andy pugh
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] cutter radius compensation versus tool table data
>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>> Date: Tuesday, May 29, 2012, 5:03 AM
>> On 29 May 2012 12:30, John Thornton
>> 
>> wrote:
>>> Actually the docs should/will say Cutter Diameter
>> Compensation to avoid
>>> that confusion.
>> Even for a lathe?
>>
>> -- 
>> atp
>> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
>> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>>
>> --
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>> security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can
>> respond. Discussions
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>> latest in malware
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Re: [Emc-users] Question with gantry setup

[Bryce Johnson]

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:

> 2012/5/28 Bryce Johnson :
> > I've just been trying to tune my gantry setup and I have had a few
> > problems.  I am using 2.5.
> >
> > I am using gantrykins with XYZX.  I am trying to set up my limits for for
> > speed on my Z axis of 180ipm.   In joint mode, jogging around, it seems
> to
> > obey this.   When I switch to world it doesn't listen to that limit
> anymore
> > and I can (try to)  jog it up to my MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 6.00 in my
> >  [TRAJ] in my ini.  This will throw a joint error.
> >
>
> I guess "joint following error" is meant here.
>
> >
> > It seems like I lose some flexibility when using gantrykins vs just
> slaving
> > the drives together (although I would like to be able to home both X1 and
> > X2 independently).  Is there a way to home the drives and then run it as
> if
> > they were slaved?
> >
>
> If I understand correctly, then You are having difficulties with Z
> axis, but gantrykins simply maps 2 joints to X axis, so I do not see,
> how changing kinematics module (and hardwire slaving the 2nd joint)
> will help here.
>
>
If I remember correctly on my previous machine (3axis 3 motors), even if
the jog speed was high, it would get limited by the axis speed in the ini.
 This was nice so I could jog my x and y at high speed and then my z was
limited.  If on my new machine (XYZX) if I set it up the same way (hardwire
slaving) then the machine would respect those limits instead of throwing a
joint error.

Also If I had it this way, the soft limits would be in place... which is
nice for jogging around.


My suggestion (could be considered as workaround) is:
> in [TRAJ] section
> 1) set default_linear_velocity to something that Your Z axis can handle
> 2) set max_linear_velocity to something that Your X and Y can handle
>
> when You need to jog Z, simply jog it at default speed. When You want
> to jog X or Y at max speed, press "shift" and arrows - it will jog at
> max velocity.
>
> I am not sure, how that all really works, but explicitly telling
> LinuxCNC to jog a joint faster than it is capable to do so is
> something it will complain about. I guess that simply limiting that
> speed to joint's max velocity would be better, but I assume there may
> be a reason for not to be set up this way, I really do not know.
>
> >
> >
> > And then some other problems are my somewhat poor base period (this is
> the
> > reason my Z can't go about about 180ipm on a screw drive).  I have a
> > 3 GHz pentium 4.  Tried the SMI fix, an external video card,and disabling
> > all the power saving stuff in the bios and can't seem to get it below
> > ~45000 jitter worst case.  I've thought about getting one of those little
> > atom boards to improve the stepping, or should I get one of those mesa
> > cards I keep seeing you guys use (like 5i25?  at $90 that would be as
> cheap
> > as a atom board).  Could I plug that directly into my C10 breakout board
> > from keling (http://www.kelinginc.com/c10.pdf)?
> >
>
> 45000 is really unpleasant. Is that single-core or dual-core cpu? I am
> typing this on dual-core Pentium - I do not know, when did Intel
> manage to put those out, I  thought they were calling all dual-core
> cpus to be " core2duo" or something like that until I got this PC.
>
>
Single Core.  I should have held on to my older cnc pc that got better
numbers (around 25000 or 3).


> FPGA cards available for LinuxCNC will connect directly to PC either
> via LPT port (Pico Systems cards and Mesa's 7i43) or in pci slot
> (Mesa's 5i23, 5i25 etc). FPGA cards will not plug in any breakout
> board of whatsoever.
> If You want to use Your existing Keling breakout board, I would
> suggest 5i25. Take the pinout of that board and check with Mesa
> people, if it matches with any of existing firmwares (there should be
> a match, but AFAIK they will adjust one for You, if there isn't). So
> in the end You should be able to plug the lpt cable from Your breakout
> board in 5i25 and just tweak Your config a little bit.
>
> Cost-wise it would be the same as atom board, but performance-wise use
> of FPGA card beats any software-stepping setup in many points,
> including smoother step signals, increased number of i/o pins, better
> realtime performance etc.
>
> --
> Viesturs
>
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
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Bryce
--

Re: [Emc-users] Question with gantry setup

[Bryce Johnson]

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 2:55 PM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 28 May 2012 20:34, Bryce Johnson  wrote:
>
> > It seems like I lose some flexibility when using gantrykins vs just
> slaving
> > the drives together (although I would like to be able to home both X1 and
> > X2 independently).  Is there a way to home the drives and then run it as
> if
> > they were slaved?
>
> Not that I know of. Though I think it is possible to automatically
> switch to world mode when homed.
>
> I am surprised that it will try to drive a joint faster than the max
> velocity for that joint though.
>
> > atom boards to improve the stepping, or should I get one of those mesa
> > cards I keep seeing you guys use (like 5i25?  at $90 that would be as
> cheap
> > as a atom board).  Could I plug that directly into my C10 breakout board
> > from keling (http://www.kelinginc.com/c10.pdf)?
>
> I think it will probably plug straight in with the correct firmware
> loaded. It gives you much more than a swap to an Atom board. An Atom
> board will give you 4x the current step rate, a 5i25 will give you
> nearer 400x. You don't need 400x, but there is an advantage in the
> much lower step rate granularity.
>
> There is a daughter-board for the 5i25 (7i76) which does a lot more
> than a simple BoB, but that requires a different firmware on the 5i25.
> It can be changed, but it is akin to a BIOS flash, so is some effort
> (and I don't think the Linux version of the utility is ready yet)
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
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>

I think I'll look into one of the mesa boards. Probably the 5i25.  That
would fix part of the issue with not being able to drive the Z fast enough.
 I'll also have to look into auto switching from joint mode, so I
don't accidentally jog one of my x joints.

Can you set parms in the INI that are just used by the world mode?  Like X
axis speed?  The soft limits?
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

This is a shot of the stepup transformer. All the taps are for the input 
side... I kinda wondered about jacking with the hot leg but didn't try 
it. X goes to the infeed unit.

http://imagebin.org/214319

The nameplate just has FLA 50a and largest motor load 20a

John

On 5/29/2012 8:04 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 09:02:11 AM John Thornton did opine:
>
>> It seems that phase perfect works together with
>>
>> http://www.transformeronline.com/prices/threephasetransformer.htm
>>
>> The have several sizes of 240 delta to 208 Y... how do you pick a size?
>>
>> John
>>
> Is there a nameplate somewhere that quotes the maximum KVA of its draw?
> Then pick the next one up.
>
> Those prices look pretty good from here.
>
>> On 5/29/2012 7:09 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 07:48:08 AM John Thornton did opine:
 I filled out the quote form to see what they say.

 John
>>> Yes, thanks.
>>>
>>> I have another wild idea, your Vab, Vac, Vbc voltages would appear to
>>> be moderately well balanced, as they should be.  The generated C,
>>> measured to ground, is quite hot as is also expected.  So a set of
>>> readings to ground from the taps labeled 390 are the next bits of
>>> data I need to cogitate on.
>>>
>>> Hook the meter up cold with clip leads, than power up just long enough
>>> to take the reading of course, we sure don't need a fried John.
>>>
>>> I can personally testify that that is not a pleasant experience, and
>>> neither was the shingles it triggered.  If you survive the burns, they
>>> are a minor detail, but the shingles will recalibrate even a
>>> diabetics pain threshold, upward by about an order of magnitude.
>>>
 On 5/28/2012 11:12 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Monday, May 28, 2012 11:53:29 AM John Thornton did opine:
>> Gene,
>>
>> The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need
>> balanced voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after
>> their device. So I have to assume they are out there but so far my
>> google only turns up descriptions of the beast.
>>
>> John
>>> Can they supply a suitably sized "matching" device?  It would seem to
>>> me they are missing the chance to make a higher profit if they did
>>> not do so. Not being able to supply a complete solution would not
>>> make business sense to me if I was PhasePerfect.  But I'm not, so...
>>>
> These people have made transformers for me several times, at what I
> considered at the time to be great prices, considering it was
> usually needed yesterday if not before.  Dating back to 1985, none
> of the 3 replacements they made me for that old GE transmitter has
> ever failed. Good stuff.
>
> 
>
> This is an arm of Peter Dahl, (or vice-versa) and their products use
> modern grain oriented steel laminations, which made their product
> more efficient by far than the 1950's style OEM transformer it was
> replacing AND about half the weight because of the improved
> efficiency.
>
> The most recent, and smallest one they made had about a 10kw rating,
> a plate transformer for the 5kw rated driver cabinet of a 35kw
> rated big box, came in the door at less than $2k at the time, and
> in only 10 days, which is now about 15 years back up the log.  How
> they might compete today, I have no clue, but they have been
> keeping
> broadcasters with old transmitters on the air for at least 50 years.
>
> I'd be interested in what your quote might be.
>
> Cheers, Gene
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>> 
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>> latest in malware threats.
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> Cheers, Gene

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[Dave]

But those voltages do sound high if those are the 390 volt taps.

I'd tie that neutral to machine frame ground and see what happens.   You 
might want to put a fuse in ground line - just in case.. when you try it.

Dave

On 5/29/2012 8:16 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> Well I'll be a monkeys uncle, the step up transformer does have a N lug
> but nothing is connected to it.
>
> Voltages at the drive input are
> UV 525
> UW 512
> VW 508
> Ug 225
> Vg 225
> Wg 370
>
> John
>
> On 5/29/2012 6:44 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 07:33:26 AM John Thornton did opine:
>>
>>  
>>> While laying on the floor to change taps yesterday on the step up
>>> transformer I noticed it says INPUT WYE. The transformer has 3 sets of 3
>>> lugs for input 208, 220, 240. The only other wires on the transformer
>>> are 3 lugs for 390v to the infeed unit and 3 lugs at 480v for the
>>> cooling pump. The step up transformer frame is grounded to the same
>>> place as everything else in the machine.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>> You said "INPUT WYE", but made no mention of a center N connection.  How
>> can it be a WYE if there is not a neutral?  Perhaps I'm still a pint low on
>> coffee?
>>
>> More to the point, what voltage do you actually measure, to ground, from
>> those 390 volt points?
>>
>>  
>>> On 5/28/2012 8:34 PM, Dave wrote:
>>>
 Yes, many/most big servo drive systems that I have worked on use a
 Delta primary - Wye secondary with a grounded neutral.

 I think the grounded neutral on the Wye keeps the voltage in check on
 the drive capacitors from a line to ground standpoint.

 I've purchased this type of  transformer for a couple of different
 servo projects.  They tend to start at about 10 KVA and cost about
 $1200 at that size.

 I think I have a 6 KVA unit in my shop.  Hmm... come to think of it, I
 have used that transformer to power Siemens VFDs and Parker servo
 drives off of my rotary phase converter without any problems.

 If you were closer, I'd loan it to you.

 Delta primary, Wye secondary transformers are pretty common around
 here.   But many are sold  specifically as drive isolation
 transformers.

 You have a step up transformer in your machine right now though, prior
 to your Siemens 611U power input module (fancy DC power supply);   How
 is that wired?

 Dave

 On 5/28/2012 8:05 AM, John Thornton wrote:
  
> Gene,
>
> The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need
> balanced voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after
> their device. So I have to assume they are out there but so far my
> google only turns up descriptions of the beast.
>
> John
>
> On 5/27/2012 4:09 PM, gene heskett wrote:
>
>> Now, here John, is another thought if my train of thought follows
>> and this thing is hooked up delta on the outside, but is 3
>> individual loads to ground inside the kit, and which I can see
>> objecting to the over voltages the phase converter generates,you
>> might be very pleased with how it works IF you interpose a 3 phase
>> transformer between your phase converter output and the supply to
>> this kit.  Hook the input side up as a delta load, ignoring the
>> center of the wye this idler motor has AND the center of the
>> primary side wye (other than making sure, if it has individual
>> bolts per phase, that they are connected together).
>>
>> Then ground to the machines neutral and effectively to ground, the
>> center of the wye of this 3 phase 1/1 transformers secondary, and
>> feed your kit with the outside 3 corners of the wye.  That should
>> go a long ways to restore the "to ground" voltage balances.  The
>> transformer will of course need to be rated at about 125% of the
>> kits actual load.  And not having researched it, I'd have no clue
>> as to the ready availability of such a beast.
>>
>> Doing a google search, I came across this:
>>
>> 
>>
>> which might make it a bit clearer than my word pictures.
>>
>> Cheers, Gene.
>>  
> -
> - Live Security Virtual Conference
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[Dave]

Those prices are ok, but shipping from SD to your place might make them 
not such a good deal.

I've bought some larger transformers off Ebay - I bought a Square D 150 
KVA Nema 1 floor mount for $500 a few years ago.  It looked like new.

I had to drive 100 miles to get it but it was well worth the drive.   
Transformers are oftentimes slow movers on Ebay, so sometimes you can 
strike a good deal if the guy wants to sell
in less than 6 months.

Dave

On 5/29/2012 9:04 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 09:02:11 AM John Thornton did opine:
>
>
>> It seems that phase perfect works together with
>>
>> http://www.transformeronline.com/prices/threephasetransformer.htm
>>
>> The have several sizes of 240 delta to 208 Y... how do you pick a size?
>>
>> John
>>
>>  
> Is there a nameplate somewhere that quotes the maximum KVA of its draw?
> Then pick the next one up.
>
> Those prices look pretty good from here.
>
>
>> On 5/29/2012 7:09 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>>  
>>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 07:48:08 AM John Thornton did opine:
>>>
 I filled out the quote form to see what they say.

 John
  
>>> Yes, thanks.
>>>
>>> I have another wild idea, your Vab, Vac, Vbc voltages would appear to
>>> be moderately well balanced, as they should be.  The generated C,
>>> measured to ground, is quite hot as is also expected.  So a set of
>>> readings to ground from the taps labeled 390 are the next bits of
>>> data I need to cogitate on.
>>>
>>> Hook the meter up cold with clip leads, than power up just long enough
>>> to take the reading of course, we sure don't need a fried John.
>>>
>>> I can personally testify that that is not a pleasant experience, and
>>> neither was the shingles it triggered.  If you survive the burns, they
>>> are a minor detail, but the shingles will recalibrate even a
>>> diabetics pain threshold, upward by about an order of magnitude.
>>>
>>>
 On 5/28/2012 11:12 AM, gene heskett wrote:
  
> On Monday, May 28, 2012 11:53:29 AM John Thornton did opine:
>
>> Gene,
>>
>> The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need
>> balanced voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after
>> their device. So I have to assume they are out there but so far my
>> google only turns up descriptions of the beast.
>>
>> John
>>  
>>> Can they supply a suitably sized "matching" device?  It would seem to
>>> me they are missing the chance to make a higher profit if they did
>>> not do so. Not being able to supply a complete solution would not
>>> make business sense to me if I was PhasePerfect.  But I'm not, so...
>>>
>>>
> These people have made transformers for me several times, at what I
> considered at the time to be great prices, considering it was
> usually needed yesterday if not before.  Dating back to 1985, none
> of the 3 replacements they made me for that old GE transmitter has
> ever failed. Good stuff.
>
> 
>
> This is an arm of Peter Dahl, (or vice-versa) and their products use
> modern grain oriented steel laminations, which made their product
> more efficient by far than the 1950's style OEM transformer it was
> replacing AND about half the weight because of the improved
> efficiency.
>
> The most recent, and smallest one they made had about a 10kw rating,
> a plate transformer for the 5kw rated driver cabinet of a 35kw
> rated big box, came in the door at less than $2k at the time, and
> in only 10 days, which is now about 15 years back up the log.  How
> they might compete today, I have no clue, but they have been
> keeping
> broadcasters with old transmitters on the air for at least 50 years.
>
> I'd be interested in what your quote might be.
>
> Cheers, Gene
>
 -
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>>> Cheers, Gene
>>>
>> 
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>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
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Re: [Emc-users] Question with gantry setup

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/5/29 Bryce Johnson :
>
> If I remember correctly on my previous machine (3axis 3 motors), even if
> the jog speed was high, it would get limited by the axis speed in the ini.
> This was nice so I could jog my x and y at high speed and then my z was
> limited.  If on my new machine (XYZX) if I set it up the same way (hardwire
> slaving) then the machine would respect those limits instead of throwing a
> joint error.
>
> Also If I had it this way, the soft limits would be in place... which is
> nice for jogging around.
>

Would You like trying to assign 2 joints to 1 axis the hardcore way
right in kinematics module? I start thinking that there is only one
way to find out, if changing kinematics module will help.
To do so, You will need:
1) linuxcnc-dev package installed;

2) install git packages and get source code; see first 2 commands here:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_git
I would suggest replacing emc2 with linuxcnc for the second command;

3) in the folder with source code:
go to ~/src/emc/kinematics/
open trivkins.c and save with name of Your choice (afterwards I will
assume it to be called mykins.c, update the commands in steps 4 and 5
to reflect the actual name);

4) now edit that file to assign joint[3] to X

for that You will need to "free" joint[3] from A axis, so remove this line:
pos->a = joints[3];

and assign it to X by changing this line:
joints[3] = pos->a;
to this one:
joints[3] = pos->tran.x;

5) replace "trivkins" with "mykins" in both places - first line and
9th line from bottom, otherwise next step will cause errors;

6) install the new kinematics module by running in terminal:
cd linuxcnc-dev/src/emc/kinematics
sudo comp --install mykins.c

7) adjust HAL file to load the new kinematics module;

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[andy pugh]

On 29 May 2012 13:16, John Thornton  wrote:
> Well I'll be a monkeys uncle, the step up transformer does have a N lug
> but nothing is connected to it.

Do you know if that is on the input or output side? (it should be
possible to test with a multimeter)

I seem to recall that some of the installation diagrams in the manual
showed the input transformer neutral connected to ground.

That transformer is likely to be an accessory for the US market. Euro
3-phase is 400+V. it might be that it can do double-duty as the
matching transformer shown in the installation manual.

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Re: [Emc-users] cutter radius compensation versus tool table data

[andy pugh]

On 29 May 2012 14:08, charles green  wrote:
> why should one linear axis have a metric that is 2x or 1/2x any of the 
> others, even on a lathe?

Inserts are described by nose radius, not nose diameter, whereas
milling cutters are described by diameter.

Though, the pedant in my would like to point out that in lathe mode
you can already double/halve one axis when switching to diameter mode.
But that is a different issue.

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

I assume that I should be able to see some resistance between N and H1, 
H2, and H3 if it is on the input side?

John

On 5/29/2012 9:18 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 29 May 2012 13:16, John Thornton  wrote:
>> Well I'll be a monkeys uncle, the step up transformer does have a N lug
>> but nothing is connected to it.
> Do you know if that is on the input or output side? (it should be
> possible to test with a multimeter)
>
> I seem to recall that some of the installation diagrams in the manual
> showed the input transformer neutral connected to ground.
>
> That transformer is likely to be an accessory for the US market. Euro
> 3-phase is 400+V. it might be that it can do double-duty as the
> matching transformer shown in the installation manual.
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[Dave]

It looks like that Neutral termnal is on the input side of the 
transformer.I would NOT connect that to ground as bad things would 
likely happen since your input off the phase converter is not balanced 
around ground.

So the input power goes into the H2 terminals.   The coolant pump is 
tapped at H4 which makes that an autotransformer connection to the 
coolant pump.   Then your infeed is off X-X-X.

Make sure your meter probes wires are in good shape as that H4 
connection made up phase leg could be a long ways above ground.  I think 
that most probe leads are rated for 1000 volts.. but if they are old.  :-/

Dave

On 5/29/2012 10:01 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> This is a shot of the stepup transformer. All the taps are for the input
> side... I kinda wondered about jacking with the hot leg but didn't try
> it. X goes to the infeed unit.
>
> http://imagebin.org/214319
>
> The nameplate just has FLA 50a and largest motor load 20a
>
> John
>
> On 5/29/2012 8:04 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 09:02:11 AM John Thornton did opine:
>>
>>  
>>> It seems that phase perfect works together with
>>>
>>> http://www.transformeronline.com/prices/threephasetransformer.htm
>>>
>>> The have several sizes of 240 delta to 208 Y... how do you pick a size?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>> Is there a nameplate somewhere that quotes the maximum KVA of its draw?
>> Then pick the next one up.
>>
>> Those prices look pretty good from here.
>>
>>  
>>> On 5/29/2012 7:09 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>>>
 On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 07:48:08 AM John Thornton did opine:
  
> I filled out the quote form to see what they say.
>
> John
>
 Yes, thanks.

 I have another wild idea, your Vab, Vac, Vbc voltages would appear to
 be moderately well balanced, as they should be.  The generated C,
 measured to ground, is quite hot as is also expected.  So a set of
 readings to ground from the taps labeled 390 are the next bits of
 data I need to cogitate on.

 Hook the meter up cold with clip leads, than power up just long enough
 to take the reading of course, we sure don't need a fried John.

 I can personally testify that that is not a pleasant experience, and
 neither was the shingles it triggered.  If you survive the burns, they
 are a minor detail, but the shingles will recalibrate even a
 diabetics pain threshold, upward by about an order of magnitude.

  
> On 5/28/2012 11:12 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>
>> On Monday, May 28, 2012 11:53:29 AM John Thornton did opine:
>>  
>>> Gene,
>>>
>>> The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need
>>> balanced voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after
>>> their device. So I have to assume they are out there but so far my
>>> google only turns up descriptions of the beast.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
 Can they supply a suitably sized "matching" device?  It would seem to
 me they are missing the chance to make a higher profit if they did
 not do so. Not being able to supply a complete solution would not
 make business sense to me if I was PhasePerfect.  But I'm not, so...

  
>> These people have made transformers for me several times, at what I
>> considered at the time to be great prices, considering it was
>> usually needed yesterday if not before.  Dating back to 1985, none
>> of the 3 replacements they made me for that old GE transmitter has
>> ever failed. Good stuff.
>>
>> 
>>
>> This is an arm of Peter Dahl, (or vice-versa) and their products use
>> modern grain oriented steel laminations, which made their product
>> more efficient by far than the 1950's style OEM transformer it was
>> replacing AND about half the weight because of the improved
>> efficiency.
>>
>> The most recent, and smallest one they made had about a 10kw rating,
>> a plate transformer for the 5kw rated driver cabinet of a 35kw
>> rated big box, came in the door at less than $2k at the time, and
>> in only 10 days, which is now about 15 years back up the log.  How
>> they might compete today, I have no clue, but they have been
>> keeping
>> broadcasters with old transmitters on the air for at least 50 years.
>>
>> I'd be interested in what your quote might be.
>>
>> Cheers, Gene
>>  
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[Dave]

Probably just a few ohms..

If that is on the H side of the transformer - I would not connect it to 
ground.

Dave

On 5/29/2012 10:37 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> I assume that I should be able to see some resistance between N and H1,
> H2, and H3 if it is on the input side?
>
> John
>
> On 5/29/2012 9:18 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>
>> On 29 May 2012 13:16, John Thornton   wrote:
>>  
>>> Well I'll be a monkeys uncle, the step up transformer does have a N lug
>>> but nothing is connected to it.
>>>
>> Do you know if that is on the input or output side? (it should be
>> possible to test with a multimeter)
>>
>> I seem to recall that some of the installation diagrams in the manual
>> showed the input transformer neutral connected to ground.
>>
>> That transformer is likely to be an accessory for the US market. Euro
>> 3-phase is 400+V. it might be that it can do double-duty as the
>> matching transformer shown in the installation manual.
>>
>>  
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>


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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

Nothing today within 750 miles of my location.

Found these in NY

http://www.ebay.com/itm/27kva-transformer-230v-230v-133v-3-phase-delta-wye-230-133-volt-240-scr-drive-l-/280824419312?pt=BI_Circuit_Breakers_Transformers&hash=item41627093f0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30kva-transformer-240v-208v-120v-3-phase-delta-wye-volt-t0130-/280826678581?pt=BI_Circuit_Breakers_Transformers&hash=item4162930d35

John

On 5/29/2012 9:06 AM, Dave wrote:
> Those prices are ok, but shipping from SD to your place might make them
> not such a good deal.
>
> I've bought some larger transformers off Ebay - I bought a Square D 150
> KVA Nema 1 floor mount for $500 a few years ago.  It looked like new.
>
> I had to drive 100 miles to get it but it was well worth the drive.
> Transformers are oftentimes slow movers on Ebay, so sometimes you can
> strike a good deal if the guy wants to sell
> in less than 6 months.
>
> Dave
>
> On 5/29/2012 9:04 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 09:02:11 AM John Thornton did opine:
>>
>>
>>> It seems that phase perfect works together with
>>>
>>> http://www.transformeronline.com/prices/threephasetransformer.htm
>>>
>>> The have several sizes of 240 delta to 208 Y... how do you pick a size?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>> Is there a nameplate somewhere that quotes the maximum KVA of its draw?
>> Then pick the next one up.
>>
>> Those prices look pretty good from here.
>>
>>
>>> On 5/29/2012 7:09 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>>>
 On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 07:48:08 AM John Thornton did opine:

> I filled out the quote form to see what they say.
>
> John
>
 Yes, thanks.

 I have another wild idea, your Vab, Vac, Vbc voltages would appear to
 be moderately well balanced, as they should be.  The generated C,
 measured to ground, is quite hot as is also expected.  So a set of
 readings to ground from the taps labeled 390 are the next bits of
 data I need to cogitate on.

 Hook the meter up cold with clip leads, than power up just long enough
 to take the reading of course, we sure don't need a fried John.

 I can personally testify that that is not a pleasant experience, and
 neither was the shingles it triggered.  If you survive the burns, they
 are a minor detail, but the shingles will recalibrate even a
 diabetics pain threshold, upward by about an order of magnitude.


> On 5/28/2012 11:12 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>
>> On Monday, May 28, 2012 11:53:29 AM John Thornton did opine:
>>
>>> Gene,
>>>
>>> The phaseperfect install guide did mention that when you need
>>> balanced voltage to ground to use a delta wye transformer after
>>> their device. So I have to assume they are out there but so far my
>>> google only turns up descriptions of the beast.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
 Can they supply a suitably sized "matching" device?  It would seem to
 me they are missing the chance to make a higher profit if they did
 not do so. Not being able to supply a complete solution would not
 make business sense to me if I was PhasePerfect.  But I'm not, so...


>> These people have made transformers for me several times, at what I
>> considered at the time to be great prices, considering it was
>> usually needed yesterday if not before.  Dating back to 1985, none
>> of the 3 replacements they made me for that old GE transmitter has
>> ever failed. Good stuff.
>>
>> 
>>
>> This is an arm of Peter Dahl, (or vice-versa) and their products use
>> modern grain oriented steel laminations, which made their product
>> more efficient by far than the 1950's style OEM transformer it was
>> replacing AND about half the weight because of the improved
>> efficiency.
>>
>> The most recent, and smallest one they made had about a 10kw rating,
>> a plate transformer for the 5kw rated driver cabinet of a 35kw
>> rated big box, came in the door at less than $2k at the time, and
>> in only 10 days, which is now about 15 years back up the log.  How
>> they might compete today, I have no clue, but they have been
>> keeping
>> broadcasters with old transmitters on the air for at least 50 years.
>>
>> I'd be interested in what your quote might be.
>>
>> Cheers, Gene
>>
> -
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> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
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> latest in malware threats.
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> h

Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

N reads 2.5m ohms to ground and 0 ohms to every other terminal on the board.

John

On 5/29/2012 9:18 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 29 May 2012 13:16, John Thornton  wrote:
>> Well I'll be a monkeys uncle, the step up transformer does have a N lug
>> but nothing is connected to it.
> Do you know if that is on the input or output side? (it should be
> possible to test with a multimeter)
>
> I seem to recall that some of the installation diagrams in the manual
> showed the input transformer neutral connected to ground.
>
> That transformer is likely to be an accessory for the US market. Euro
> 3-phase is 400+V. it might be that it can do double-duty as the
> matching transformer shown in the installation manual.
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:39:54 AM John Thornton did opine:

> This is a shot of the stepup transformer. All the taps are for the input
> side... I kinda wondered about jacking with the hot leg but didn't try
> it. X goes to the infeed unit.
> 
> http://imagebin.org/214319
> 
> The nameplate just has FLA 50a and largest motor load 20a
> 
> John
> 
That's a bit odd, so lets check one last thing,  cold, disconnect all 3 'X' 
wires, then measure for continuity from N -> any X. and N -> any H, and 
lets settle it as to whether this transformer actually isolates the 
important winding.

> On 5/29/2012 8:04 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 09:02:11 AM John Thornton did opine:
> >> It seems that phase perfect works together with
> >> 
> >> http://www.transformeronline.com/prices/threephasetransformer.htm
> >> 
> >> The have several sizes of 240 delta to 208 Y... how do you pick a
> >> size?
> >> 
Humm 390 volts, assume 22 amps/phase, 390*66 is a hair over 25KVA, so 25 to 
30 KVA should cover it.

> >> John
> > 
> > Is there a nameplate somewhere that quotes the maximum KVA of its
> > draw? Then pick the next one up.
> > 
> > Those prices look pretty good from here.


Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Question with gantry setup

[Bryce Johnson]

Viesturs,
I'll grab the code and give it a try.  So is Gantrykins just a trivkins
that someone compiled for those changes?

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:

> 2012/5/29 Bryce Johnson :
> >
> > If I remember correctly on my previous machine (3axis 3 motors), even if
> > the jog speed was high, it would get limited by the axis speed in the
> ini.
> > This was nice so I could jog my x and y at high speed and then my z was
> > limited.  If on my new machine (XYZX) if I set it up the same way
> (hardwire
> > slaving) then the machine would respect those limits instead of throwing
> a
> > joint error.
> >
> > Also If I had it this way, the soft limits would be in place... which is
> > nice for jogging around.
> >
>
> Would You like trying to assign 2 joints to 1 axis the hardcore way
> right in kinematics module? I start thinking that there is only one
> way to find out, if changing kinematics module will help.
> To do so, You will need:
> 1) linuxcnc-dev package installed;
>
> 2) install git packages and get source code; see first 2 commands here:
>
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_git
> I would suggest replacing emc2 with linuxcnc for the second command;
>
> 3) in the folder with source code:
> go to ~/src/emc/kinematics/
> open trivkins.c and save with name of Your choice (afterwards I will
> assume it to be called mykins.c, update the commands in steps 4 and 5
> to reflect the actual name);
>
> 4) now edit that file to assign joint[3] to X
>
> for that You will need to "free" joint[3] from A axis, so remove this line:
> pos->a = joints[3];
>
> and assign it to X by changing this line:
> joints[3] = pos->a;
> to this one:
> joints[3] = pos->tran.x;
>
> 5) replace "trivkins" with "mykins" in both places - first line and
> 9th line from bottom, otherwise next step will cause errors;
>
> 6) install the new kinematics module by running in terminal:
> cd linuxcnc-dev/src/emc/kinematics
> sudo comp --install mykins.c
>
> 7) adjust HAL file to load the new kinematics module;
>
> --
> * Viesturs*
>
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

N to each X is.1 ohm
X to X is .2 ohm

John

On 5/29/2012 9:57 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:39:54 AM John Thornton did opine:
>
>> This is a shot of the stepup transformer. All the taps are for the input
>> side... I kinda wondered about jacking with the hot leg but didn't try
>> it. X goes to the infeed unit.
>>
>> http://imagebin.org/214319
>>
>> The nameplate just has FLA 50a and largest motor load 20a
>>
>> John
>>
> That's a bit odd, so lets check one last thing,  cold, disconnect all 3 'X'
> wires, then measure for continuity from N ->  any X. and N ->  any H, and
> lets settle it as to whether this transformer actually isolates the
> important winding.
>
>> On 5/29/2012 8:04 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 09:02:11 AM John Thornton did opine:
 It seems that phase perfect works together with

 http://www.transformeronline.com/prices/threephasetransformer.htm

 The have several sizes of 240 delta to 208 Y... how do you pick a
 size?

> Humm 390 volts, assume 22 amps/phase, 390*66 is a hair over 25KVA, so 25 to
> 30 KVA should cover it.
>
 John
>>> Is there a nameplate somewhere that quotes the maximum KVA of its
>>> draw? Then pick the next one up.
>>>
>>> Those prices look pretty good from here.
>
> Cheers, Gene

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Re: [Emc-users] Question with gantry setup

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/5/29 Bryce Johnson :
> Viesturs,
> I'll grab the code and give it a try.  So is Gantrykins just a trivkins
> that someone compiled for those changes?
>

Oh, no, far from it! Gantrykins allows any combination. You can assign
5 joints to 1 axis, if You want. It is generalised, so that user can
define particular case, but that also is why it is hard for me to
understand that code.
Take a look around those modules, once You have the code.

Another possible place of interest might be /src/hal/components
directory. It is where source for realtime HAL components is located.
If You ever need/want to create some custom HAL component, this is the
place to look for a place to start.
The procedure for customizing them is the same as for kinematics
modules - take one starting file, save with different name, edit (do
not forget to replace the name inside the file) and in terminal cd to
that directory and install with sudo comp. And adjust HAL files, of
course.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[andy pugh]

On 29 May 2012 17:00, John Thornton  wrote:
> N to each X is.1 ohm
> X to X is .2 ohm

That sounds like the tapping you needed.

I would say earth it, put on rubber boots, rubber gloves and operate
the machine with a long, dry stick :-)

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[Alex Hunt]

Hi Jeshua,

I mounted a "Wade" type extruder to my gantry router and have been 3D
printing with LinuxCNC for about 6 months now.  The extruder thermal
control is managed by RepRap firmware on an Arduino.  I have to manually
set the temperature of the extruder before printing, but it works.  I have
a Mesa 5i20 card for control with 2M542 motor drivers, but the extruder
driver is a simple single chip stepper driver.

My intent was to close the thermal loop with a thermocouple to PWM circuit,
but I'm not there yet.  Sending serial port commands from LinuxCNC would
automate my current setup better, so please let me know if you make any
progress on that.

When you get your hardware ready to go, I might be able to help you smooth
over some of the speed-bumps getting started.

Regards,
Alex Hunt

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:00 AM, Jeshua Lacock  wrote:

>
> Greetings all,
>
> I have been dreaming of making a removable plastic extruder nozzle for my
> machine. It would turn it into a *huge* 3D printer.
>
> So I read this page with great interest:
>
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5233
>
> Is it possible to make those changes to LinuxCNC? In other words, can
> LinuxCNC currently command a serial port using those additional M words?
>
> If not, I would be willing to write some code and commit it. Some advice
> to help me get started would be extremely helpful as I have never looked at
> the branch.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeshua Lacock
> Founder/Engineer
> 3DTOPO Incorporated
> 
> Phone: 208.462.4171
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[Joachim Franek]

Joachim 

On Tuesday 29 May 2012 18:22:00 Alex Hunt wrote:
> I mounted a "Wade" type extruder to my gantry router and have been 3D
> printing with LinuxCNC for about 6 months now.  The extruder thermal
> control is managed by RepRap firmware on an Arduino.  

Which type of Arduino hardware do you use?

see also:
http://reprap.org/wiki/EMCRepRap

Joachim 



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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[Dave]

So you get a very high resistance reading from the N to the H 
connections with all of the wires off the transformer?

If so, I would ground that N terminal via a fuse (in case you have 
overlooked something) and see what happens.

Dave

On 5/29/2012 12:00 PM, John Thornton wrote:
> N to each X is.1 ohm
> X to X is .2 ohm
>
> John
>
> On 5/29/2012 9:57 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:39:54 AM John Thornton did opine:
>>
>>  
>>> This is a shot of the stepup transformer. All the taps are for the input
>>> side... I kinda wondered about jacking with the hot leg but didn't try
>>> it. X goes to the infeed unit.
>>>
>>> http://imagebin.org/214319
>>>
>>> The nameplate just has FLA 50a and largest motor load 20a
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>> That's a bit odd, so lets check one last thing,  cold, disconnect all 3 'X'
>> wires, then measure for continuity from N ->   any X. and N ->   any H, and
>> lets settle it as to whether this transformer actually isolates the
>> important winding.
>>
>>  
>>> On 5/29/2012 8:04 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>>>
 On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 09:02:11 AM John Thornton did opine:
  
> It seems that phase perfect works together with
>
> http://www.transformeronline.com/prices/threephasetransformer.htm
>
> The have several sizes of 240 delta to 208 Y... how do you pick a
> size?
>
>
>> Humm 390 volts, assume 22 amps/phase, 390*66 is a hair over 25KVA, so 25 to
>> 30 KVA should cover it.
>>
>>  
> John
>
 Is there a nameplate somewhere that quotes the maximum KVA of its
 draw? Then pick the next one up.

 Those prices look pretty good from here.
  
>> Cheers, Gene
>>  
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[andy pugh]

On 29 May 2012 17:22, Alex Hunt  wrote:

> I have
> a Mesa 5i20 card
…
> Sending serial port commands from LinuxCNC

One of the Mesa card functions is a serial UART and I am currently
working on HAL hooks for it.
I should have something usable in the next few days.

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/5/29 andy pugh :
>
> One of the Mesa card functions is a serial UART
>

Can You tell, what is that? Where can I read more?

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[Jon Elson]

gene heskett wrote:
>
> I have another wild idea, your Vab, Vac, Vbc voltages would appear to be 
> moderately well balanced, as they should be.  The generated C, measured to 
> ground, is quite hot as is also expected.
Perfect should be 208 V, so 212 is quite close.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[Jon Elson]

John Thornton wrote:
> I spent the day swapping out the 15hp idler in the RPC for my 10hp idler 
> (much quieter by far) and balancing the RPC per the directions in the 
> Fitch pdf. I did notice that my Vac and Vbc was reversed from his chart 
> no matter what I tried. In the end I had Vab 244, Vac 252, Vbc 252, Va 
> 122, Vb 122, Vc 212 with c being the generated leg.
>   
Well, this is a LOT closer to perfect.
> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/FitchWConverter.pdf
>
> I did a test run and it would take a S3000 M3 without an error, above 
> that it would error out. Then I remembered that I had the taps wrong on 
> the step up transformer. I changed them from 208 to 240 and it would 
> error out at S2000. I moved the taps to the 220 lugs but ran out of time 
> to test it.
>   
Well, you need to have the meter set up and see what happens to the 
voltages when it
is near the tripping point.  If the voltages are shifting during spindle 
start-up, especially
the generated leg is sagging, then you may need a bigger idler motor, or 
possibly
the caps need to be optimized for the high-load condition, not the idle 
condition.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 01:05:21 PM John Thornton did opine:

> N to each X is.1 ohm
> X to X is .2 ohm

Damn, another good what if shot to hell. I hate it when that happens. :(

So, we're probably back to an about 30 KVA isolation transformer.

Has Siemens offered any advice yet?

How about the 2 wires U,V on 208 lugs, the third one, W IIRC, on a 220 or 
240 lug that test I mentioned?

Also, what is the paper rated top speed on this drive?

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[Alex Hunt]

I am using a Duemilanove board.  The typical RepRap thermistor circuit and
a HEXFET for the heater coil is on a prototyping shield.  The firmware is
called "teacup".

I got frustrated trying to get the serial port to work following the links
on that webpage, so I decided to go down the PWM route.

Alex
On May 29, 2012 11:36 AM, "Joachim Franek"  wrote:

>
> Joachim
>
> On Tuesday 29 May 2012 18:22:00 Alex Hunt wrote:
> > I mounted a "Wade" type extruder to my gantry router and have been 3D
> > printing with LinuxCNC for about 6 months now.  The extruder thermal
> > control is managed by RepRap firmware on an Arduino.
>
> Which type of Arduino hardware do you use?
>
> see also:
> http://reprap.org/wiki/EMCRepRap
>
> Joachim
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 01:20:00 PM Jon Elson did opine:

> gene heskett wrote:
> > I have another wild idea, your Vab, Vac, Vbc voltages would appear to
> > be moderately well balanced, as they should be.  The generated C,
> > measured to ground, is quite hot as is also expected.
> 
> Perfect should be 208 V, so 212 is quite close.
> 
> Jon
>
I agree, but with the raising of the std line voltages over my lifetime, 
such that wall socket voltages are now about 127 to ground, that original 
208 has also risen by the same scale amount, and is now (reaches for kcalc 
since I don't do vector additions in my 8th grade educated head at all 
well) =219.970452561 volts phase to phase when the 3 phase input lines, 
measured to ground are 127 volts each.

So yes, 212 is close, but a hair low.  But recall we are using Johns meter, 
which may or may not be traceable to the NBS and we've no idea if his 
single phase feed is up to snuff.  If he only has 112 volts at a wall plug, 
either his meter is off a tad, or the power co. folks need to come out and 
raise his pole can by one tap.

That likely will be a pull the pole flag and fuse, open the top of the can 
and actually move the tap which may be under 6" of what is loosely called 
crisco because it looks like Crisco cooking oil.  BTDT, except I was dumb, 
the cans, because they were inside the building, had to have a fireproof 
oil in them, aka Askerol, aka the stinkiest damned PCB's, and it takes 
about a year to get that shit back out of your body after working up to 
your elbows in it for half a day.

I made my youngest son not too long after that, and it was hell to get him 
to his 5th birthday, lots of trips to the Mayo Clinic.  I will always blame 
the PCB's in my system at the time I made him for that.  The 'crisco' cans 
used outside on pads or poles aren't a problem because that is just a 
vegetable oil.

127 has been the std here in the lower 48 for about 35-40 years.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[rob c]

I use Generation-6 electronics, it has an Atmega chip like Arduino. The most 
recomended is RAMPS, this is the Arduino Mega with a stepper sheild.
The firmware is good because it gives you an idea of how things work. It is 
written in "C" language. 
 

> From: joachim.fra...@pibf.de
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 18:34:59 +0200
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?
> 
> 
> Joachim 
> 
> On Tuesday 29 May 2012 18:22:00 Alex Hunt wrote:
> > I mounted a "Wade" type extruder to my gantry router and have been 3D
> > printing with LinuxCNC for about 6 months now. The extruder thermal
> > control is managed by RepRap firmware on an Arduino. 
> 
> Which type of Arduino hardware do you use?
> 
> see also:
> http://reprap.org/wiki/EMCRepRap
> 
> Joachim 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Question with gantry setup

[andy pugh]

On 28 May 2012 20:34, Bryce Johnson  wrote:

> I am using gantrykins with XYZX.  I am trying to set up my limits for for
> speed on my Z axis of 180ipm.   In joint mode, jogging around, it seems to
> obey this.   When I switch to world it doesn't listen to that limit anymore

Playing with the gantry sim it seems that your observations are
correct. The axis MAX_VELOCITY INI file options are ignored in World
Mode.

This does seem a little unexpected. However, I have been playing
around with the Gantry sim and it does appear that only the [TRAJ]
limit is considered when in World mode, with no means to limit the
joint velocities.

I think that your intention to simply link the axes together has
merit. It is simple to connect the output of one stepgen to two sets
of parport pins.

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[Adam Okon]

You have almost ready solution with electronics and soft for EMC2 (now 
called LINUXCNC):

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6480

It is working, you should study www.reprap.org for *.openscad -> *.stl 
-> *.gcode tools or we can help you.

Yours
Adam Okon






W dniu 29.05.2012 07:00, Jeshua Lacock pisze:
>
> Greetings all,
>
> I have been dreaming of making a removable plastic extruder nozzle for my 
> machine. It would turn it into a *huge* 3D printer.
>
> So I read this page with great interest:
>
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5233
>
> Is it possible to make those changes to LinuxCNC? In other words, can 
> LinuxCNC currently command a serial port using those additional M words?
>
> If not, I would be willing to write some code and commit it. Some advice to 
> help me get started would be extremely helpful as I have never looked at the 
> branch.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeshua Lacock
> Founder/Engineer
> 3DTOPO Incorporated
> 
> Phone: 208.462.4171
>
>
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> .
>


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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[andy pugh]

On 29 May 2012 18:10, Viesturs Lācis  wrote:
> 2012/5/29 andy pugh :

>> One of the Mesa card functions is a serial UART

> Can You tell, what is that? Where can I read more?

http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=hostmot2-firmware.git;a=blob;f=regmap;h=b3a2a77c27de0c71278dc910992efeddd7deb577;hb=HEAD
(UART section)

http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=hostmot2-firmware.git;a=blob;f=uartr.vhd;h=c1e26321374f3ff6338da8d63071de122c3a;hb=HEAD

That's all there is, I think.

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/5/29 andy pugh :
>
> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=hostmot2-firmware.git;a=blob;f=regmap;h=b3a2a77c27de0c71278dc910992efeddd7deb577;hb=HEAD
> (UART section)
>
> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=hostmot2-firmware.git;a=blob;f=uartr.vhd;h=c1e26321374f3ff6338da8d63071de122c3a;hb=HEAD
>
> That's all there is, I think.

Thank You for the links!
Unfortunately I did not understand anything. Probably just a bad day,
because today I do not understand a lot of things...

-- 
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If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[rob c]

Jeshua Lacock pisze:
 
If your looking for something simple try using the Generation-6, RAMPS, or any 
Atmega based hardware along with some Opto limit switches. All you have to do 
from there is set the machine paramiters using the Firmware configuration.h 
file.
The firmware can be "Teacup" "Sprinter" "Marlin" and the control software can 
be anything including EMC Linux CNC, but most people use Sprinter or 
ReplicatorG. 
EMC is alot like Mach3, it sends pulses to a parallel port either a COM or DB25 
style but with the TFID chip you can connect your device using a USB port. You 
will need to write a post or something to have EMC function properly, I will 
look into it and post what I find. I have been trying to do this with Mach3 for 
a while now with no luck, however I can read from a txt file containing G code 
and have Arduino run three steppers without any sheild.
 

> Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 20:19:26 +0200
> From: adamo...@gmail.com
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?
> 
> You have almost ready solution with electronics and soft for EMC2 (now 
> called LINUXCNC):
> 
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6480
> 
> It is working, you should study www.reprap.org for *.openscad -> *.stl 
> -> *.gcode tools or we can help you.
> 
> Yours
> Adam Okon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> W dniu 29.05.2012 07:00, Jeshua Lacock pisze:
> >
> > Greetings all,
> >
> > I have been dreaming of making a removable plastic extruder nozzle for my 
> > machine. It would turn it into a *huge* 3D printer.
> >
> > So I read this page with great interest:
> >
> > http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5233
> >
> > Is it possible to make those changes to LinuxCNC? In other words, can 
> > LinuxCNC currently command a serial port using those additional M words?
> >
> > If not, I would be willing to write some code and commit it. Some advice to 
> > help me get started would be extremely helpful as I have never looked at 
> > the branch.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jeshua Lacock
> > Founder/Engineer
> > 3DTOPO Incorporated
> > 
> > Phone: 208.462.4171
> >
> >
> > --
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> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > .
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Question with gantry setup

[Bryce Johnson]

That is true, but then I will lose the ability to square off my gantry when
I do homing.  I suppose what I could open an linuxcnc with one ini in joint
mode.  Close that down and open my slaved one up and home it again in place.

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 1:11 PM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 28 May 2012 20:34, Bryce Johnson  wrote:
>
> > I am using gantrykins with XYZX.  I am trying to set up my limits for for
> > speed on my Z axis of 180ipm.   In joint mode, jogging around, it seems
> to
> > obey this.   When I switch to world it doesn't listen to that limit
> anymore
>
> Playing with the gantry sim it seems that your observations are
> correct. The axis MAX_VELOCITY INI file options are ignored in World
> Mode.
>
> This does seem a little unexpected. However, I have been playing
> around with the Gantry sim and it does appear that only the [TRAJ]
> limit is considered when in World mode, with no means to limit the
> joint velocities.
>
> I think that your intention to simply link the axes together has
> merit. It is simple to connect the output of one stepgen to two sets
> of parport pins.
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

Where should the 208v be? The mains are 244vac.

John

On 5/29/2012 12:11 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> gene heskett wrote:
>> I have another wild idea, your Vab, Vac, Vbc voltages would appear to be
>> moderately well balanced, as they should be.  The generated C, measured to
>> ground, is quite hot as is also expected.
> Perfect should be 208 V, so 212 is quite close.
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

When it trips it is so fast you can't see any change on the meter, if 
only I had an analog meter I could watch the needle swing.

John

On 5/29/2012 12:14 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> John Thornton wrote:
>> I spent the day swapping out the 15hp idler in the RPC for my 10hp idler
>> (much quieter by far) and balancing the RPC per the directions in the
>> Fitch pdf. I did notice that my Vac and Vbc was reversed from his chart
>> no matter what I tried. In the end I had Vab 244, Vac 252, Vbc 252, Va
>> 122, Vb 122, Vc 212 with c being the generated leg.
>>
> Well, this is a LOT closer to perfect.
>> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/FitchWConverter.pdf
>>
>> I did a test run and it would take a S3000 M3 without an error, above
>> that it would error out. Then I remembered that I had the taps wrong on
>> the step up transformer. I changed them from 208 to 240 and it would
>> error out at S2000. I moved the taps to the 220 lugs but ran out of time
>> to test it.
>>
> Well, you need to have the meter set up and see what happens to the
> voltages when it
> is near the tripping point.  If the voltages are shifting during spindle
> start-up, especially
> the generated leg is sagging, then you may need a bigger idler motor, or
> possibly
> the caps need to be optimized for the high-load condition, not the idle
> condition.
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

The spindle drive is 6,000 rpm.

I've not tried tap hopping yet... any downside to that?

John

On 5/29/2012 12:17 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 01:05:21 PM John Thornton did opine:
>
>> N to each X is.1 ohm
>> X to X is .2 ohm
> Damn, another good what if shot to hell. I hate it when that happens. :(
>
> So, we're probably back to an about 30 KVA isolation transformer.
>
> Has Siemens offered any advice yet?
>
> How about the 2 wires U,V on 208 lugs, the third one, W IIRC, on a 220 or
> 240 lug that test I mentioned?
>
> Also, what is the paper rated top speed on this drive?
>
> Cheers, Gene

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Re: [Emc-users] Question with gantry setup

[andy pugh]

On 29 May 2012 19:45, Bryce Johnson  wrote:
> That is true, but then I will lose the ability to square off my gantry when
> I do homing.

You could just unpower the drives with F2 and push to end-stops.

I imagine (with no evidence) that the JA3 branch of LinuxCNC (which
attempts to de-couple joints and axes) handles axis velocity limits
rather better.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Question with gantry setup

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/5/29 Bryce Johnson :
> That is true, but then I will lose the ability to square off my gantry when
> I do homing.  I suppose what I could open an linuxcnc with one ini in joint
> mode.  Close that down and open my slaved one up and home it again in place.
>

And how will You ensure that machine does not lose position, when
LinuxCNC window is closed?

I once tried to switch a joint from one axis to another in HAL - so
that it was independent, when homing and then slave it with a vcp
button. Did not work out, because after homing it does reset joint
position, but it does not reset motor position, so some offset is
there. I could have created a HAL module to take care of that, but I
preferred fixing the cause instead of fighting consequences.
But You could "disconnect" one joint in HAL:
1) home X with the slaved joint connected to a homing switch in slave
end of the gantry (so that the gantry does not get racked more than it
would be at that moment),
2) then disconnect the slaved joint
3) and rehome to a homing switch on master end of gantry (and square
the gantry out).
For that You would need to slave the joint in HAL -  route x-step and
x-dir signal each to 2 LPT pins.
Connecting/disconnecting can be done with mux2 component - route step
signals to slave joint through mux2 component (set the other input pin
to be 0 with setp command). If no step pulses are issued to stepper
drive, it will hold the position.
But You will need to customize mux2 to have bit pins on both inputs and output.
And use the same mux2 to select, which home switch - on master or
slave end - is connected to axis.0.home-sw-in.
And drive both mux2.sel pins with the same button in vcp, so that they
are switched together.

But I would like to see, if that fiddle with kinematics modules does
help or no. If it works, then it would be most convenient to use.

-- 
Viesturs

If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[Joachim Franek]

On Tuesday 29 May 2012 20:19:26 Adam Okon wrote:
> You have almost ready solution with electronics and soft for EMC2 (now 
> called LINUXCNC):
> 
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6480
> 
> Yours
> Adam Okon
> 

Someone can do a makefile for Adam's software?
Maybe this way?
http://mjo.tc/atelier/2009/02/arduino-cli.html

Joachim 

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 03:10:01 PM John Thornton did opine:

> Where should the 208v be? The mains are 244vac.
> 
That means your wall socket voltage is about 122.  Using the same math in 
kcalc, I get 211.310198523, but the meter will be great if it actually 
displays the .3. :)

The math is simple enough, sin(120)*voltage, where the 120 is the phase 
angle under ideal conditions.  FWIW sin(120) and sin(60) return exactly the 
same value because the sin is mirrored around modulo 90 degrees where it is 
1.0, and is zero at 0 and 180 degrees.

That is just about 1 step on the taps of your service pole can.  The 
substation regulators can usually do finer work.  That pole can, from the 
looks of this, should be able to feed your place with at least 25kw in 
order to be adequately 'stiff' enough for this level of load variations.
I was bumping the 4 or 5 houses on my can just enough that my eyes could 
see it, so both the bigger bandsaw, and my 6" delta jointer (the one I 
trimmed my fingernails with) are now reconfigured for a 250 volt single 
phase feed.  I don't even see the lights in the shop dim now.  Its 6 gage 
buried range-like cable back to the 200 amp house service, nice and stiff. 
:)  My AC has a 2.5 horse 127v motor on it and I need to do it the same 
way.

Got a summer thunderboomer moving thru, noisy outside, but I am tempted to 
go setup the mill and see if I can make another encoder disk for the lathe.  
I have some thinner material now, salvaged from the color panel in the 
front door of a dishwasher that failed, black but I'll have to magnet test 
it to see if its ferrous, that if plastic I maybe can carve with a pcb 
drill for a mill.  And I need to modify that code a bit so there is no 
width discontinuity for the long slot that is the index pulse.

I may have to hit up Andy up for some math help because I don't think that 
code compensates for the mill radius when it tapers smaller at the inside 
radii of the slots.  I get the impression that the taper it uses needs a /2 
in order to aim the side of the carved slot directly at the center of the 
circle.

> John
> 
> On 5/29/2012 12:11 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> > gene heskett wrote:
> >> I have another wild idea, your Vab, Vac, Vbc voltages would appear to
> >> be moderately well balanced, as they should be.  The generated C,
> >> measured to ground, is quite hot as is also expected.
> > 
> > Perfect should be 208 V, so 212 is quite close.
> > 
> > Jon
> > 
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Cheers, Gene
-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 03:46:29 PM John Thornton did opine:

> The spindle drive is 6,000 rpm.
> 
> I've not tried tap hopping yet... any downside to that?
> 
> John
 
I think the trip off will tell you that.  So far, IIRC, you've managed to 
hit half speed, and when you lowered it by choosing the higher tap on the H 
terminals, it got worse.  That tells me it needs to go up by feeding it on 
the 208 taps.

I've lost track, have you tried all of them on the 208 taps yet?

Basically if it still trips then, the isolation transformer you order 
should also be able to do a 10-15% step up I'm thinking.  Feed it on the 
208 taps, and load it on the 220 taps perhaps.

Where are you John?  I'm wondering how long a drive it might be to check 
your beer supply. :)


> On 5/29/2012 12:17 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 01:05:21 PM John Thornton did opine:
> >> N to each X is.1 ohm
> >> X to X is .2 ohm
> > 
> > Damn, another good what if shot to hell. I hate it when that happens.
> > :(
> > 
> > So, we're probably back to an about 30 KVA isolation transformer.
> > 
> > Has Siemens offered any advice yet?
> > 
> > How about the 2 wires U,V on 208 lugs, the third one, W IIRC, on a 220
> > or 240 lug that test I mentioned?
> > 
> > Also, what is the paper rated top speed on this drive?
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> 
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Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[Adam Okon]

W dniu 29.05.2012 21:45, Joachim Franek pisze:
> On Tuesday 29 May 2012 20:19:26 Adam Okon wrote:
>> You have almost ready solution with electronics and soft for EMC2 (now
>> called LINUXCNC):
>>
>> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6480
>>
>> Yours
>> Adam Okon
>>
>
> Someone can do a makefile for Adam's software?

The software is not mine. I am just pointing it out.

Adam

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Re: [Emc-users] Question with gantry setup

[Tom Easterday]

Bryce,

I would (and did) avoid using Gantrykins.  It is rife with bugs (like ignoring 
MAX_VELOCITY, or try jogging with keyboard keys in Manual Tab/World Mode and 
over 488ipm - gives immediate fault but in Joint Mode/Manual Tab, can jog at 
any speed) and/or gotchas (World Mode only supports continuous jogging not 
incremental, and I guarantee you will screw up and jog in Joint Mode).  We 
spent a long time trying to get Gantrykins to behave including modifying Axis 
to switch to World Mode automatically, but ultimately gave up and are very 
happy with our trivkins configuration.  See documentation here:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine

I reported a number of bugs on the mailing list back in Dec/Jan/Feb related to 
Gantrykins and World/Joint mode and was ultimately convinced to just use 
trivkins.  If I were you I'd save myself the frustration.  Wait, I was you and 
I didn't!  Go ahead and experience the frustration and then switch ;-)  Or as 
we say, Learn from the mistakes of other's by repeating them yourself!

BTW, good name.  10 years ago I named my son Bryce :-)

Tom

On May 29, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Bryce Johnson wrote:

> That is true, but then I will lose the ability to square off my gantry when
> I do homing.  I suppose what I could open an linuxcnc with one ini in joint
> mode.  Close that down and open my slaved one up and home it again in place.
> 
> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 1:11 PM, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
>> On 28 May 2012 20:34, Bryce Johnson  wrote:
>> 
>>> I am using gantrykins with XYZX.  I am trying to set up my limits for for
>>> speed on my Z axis of 180ipm.   In joint mode, jogging around, it seems
>> to
>>> obey this.   When I switch to world it doesn't listen to that limit
>> anymore
>> 
>> Playing with the gantry sim it seems that your observations are
>> correct. The axis MAX_VELOCITY INI file options are ignored in World
>> Mode.
>> 
>> This does seem a little unexpected. However, I have been playing
>> around with the Gantry sim and it does appear that only the [TRAJ]
>> limit is considered when in World mode, with no means to limit the
>> joint velocities.
>> 
>> I think that your intention to simply link the axes together has
>> merit. It is simple to connect the output of one stepgen to two sets
>> of parport pins.
>> 
>> --
>> atp
>> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
>> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[Jon Elson]

gene heskett wrote:
>
> So, we're probably back to an about 30 KVA isolation transformer.
>
>   
Oh, MY!  If he needs a 30 KVA transformer, then he probably needs a 40 HP
idler motor.  And, that will draw about 130 Amps from the 240 V mains,
mostly inductive power factor.  This keeps getting worse!

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Question with gantry setup

[Jon Elson]

andy pugh wrote:
> Playing with the gantry sim it seems that your observations are
> correct. The axis MAX_VELOCITY INI file options are ignored in World
> Mode.
>
>   
This has been reported sporadically for some time, maybe at least a year.
> This does seem a little unexpected. However, I have been playing
> around with the Gantry sim and it does appear that only the [TRAJ]
> limit is considered when in World mode, with no means to limit the
> joint velocities.
>
> I think that your intention to simply link the axes together has
> merit. It is simple to connect the output of one stepgen to two sets
> of parport pins.
>   
Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Question with gantry setup

[Jon Elson]

Bryce Johnson wrote:
> That is true, but then I will lose the ability to square off my gantry when
> I do homing.  I suppose what I could open an linuxcnc with one ini in joint
> mode.  Close that down and open my slaved one up and home it again in place.
>   
Horrors!  No, there are other ways to do this.  A scheme I dreamed up, 
but haven't tried
is this.  When the home command is given, both motors are given 
identical step
rates toward the home position.  When the first motor trips the home 
switch, the
step pulses are interrupted to that motor.  When the second home switch 
is tripped,
everything is re-enabled.  LinuxCNC is only told there is one axis, and 
the home
switch input is shown to it when both switches are tripped.  That is 
done with the
OR2 hal component.  Gating the steps to the two drives is a little more 
complicated,
but standard HAL components should be able to do it.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:40:24 PM Jon Elson did opine:

> gene heskett wrote:
> > So, we're probably back to an about 30 KVA isolation transformer.
> 
> Oh, MY!  If he needs a 30 KVA transformer, then he probably needs a 40
> HP idler motor.  And, that will draw about 130 Amps from the 240 V
> mains, mostly inductive power factor.  This keeps getting worse!
> 
> Jon

Those were SWAG's, pulled out of you know where, Jon.  The x taps on that 
autoformer we've been putzing with say 370-390 volts at 22 amps, but do not 
say total, or per phase, so I chose the worst case scenario or 22 
amps/phase, which in power in kw would be 390*66=25,740 watts, aka 26kw.  
Probably, likely wrong.  Feel totally free to correct that assumption.  KVA 
to kilowatts is one conversion that has NEVER made sense to me.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: 
 netgod: er, are these 2.2.0 packages 2.0.0pre9 or do you have a
direct line with the gods?
 joeyh: i have the direct line

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[Jon Elson]

John Thornton wrote:
> Where should the 208v be? The mains are 244vac.
>   
If you measure from the mains neutral (which is NOT the center point
of the 3-phase system) to the generated leg, it should be about 208 Volts.

The three-phase system is an equilateral triangle, with each side 240 V.
The neutral is the center of the bottom side, the 240 V mains are
the left and right corner of the bottom.  The generated line is the top
of the triangle.
So, if you cut it in half vertically, you have two 30/60/90 degree 
triangles,
with the 90 degree angles against each other.  The left and right
sides of the big triangle are also 240 V.  So, the hypotenuse of the
30/60/90 triangles are 240, the base is 120.  sin (60) * 240 =
207.8

So, that's where the 208 comes from.  If your mains are actually
244 V, then neutral to L3 would be 211.3 V.

But, you really should not be measuring from the mains neutral, as
that is not germane to the 3-phase system.  Just measure from each
line to another.  You should get 240 on each one.  I have not
derived the math on this, but I am pretty sure that it is impossible to
have 240 V from each line to another and have the phase angles
wrong.  So, if the voltages read balanced, the phase angles ALSO
have to be correct.


Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[Jon Elson]

John Thornton wrote:
> When it trips it is so fast you can't see any change on the meter, if 
> only I had an analog meter I could watch the needle swing.
>   
Right, that's why I was suggesting making the spindle accelerate to just 
less than what
causes it to trip.  I assume the spindle takes a second or so to spin up 
to 2000 RPM.
That should be enough to detect a voltage dip (or surge).  You say the 
DC bus
does NOT fluctuate when it trips, is that right?

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?

[Jeshua Lacock]

Wow! Thanks for all the suggestions! 

There are so many suggestions pointing in various directions it will take me a 
while to study all of them in detail to see which options makes the most sense 
to proceed with. I am sure I will have to follow up with some questions and 
ultimately I will share my plan of attack.

The board already working with LinuxCNC sounds like it is the most ready to 
use, but on the downside it looks like I would have to have the board custom 
made for me. 


Thanks again,

Jeshua Lacock
Founder/Engineer
3DTOPO Incorporated

Phone: 208.462.4171


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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:04:48 PM Jon Elson did opine:

> John Thornton wrote:
> > Where should the 208v be? The mains are 244vac.
> 
> If you measure from the mains neutral (which is NOT the center point
> of the 3-phase system) to the generated leg, it should be about 208
> Volts.
> 
> The three-phase system is an equilateral triangle, with each side 240 V.
> The neutral is the center of the bottom side, the 240 V mains are
> the left and right corner of the bottom.  The generated line is the top
> of the triangle.
> So, if you cut it in half vertically, you have two 30/60/90 degree
> triangles,
> with the 90 degree angles against each other.  The left and right
> sides of the big triangle are also 240 V.  So, the hypotenuse of the
> 30/60/90 triangles are 240, the base is 120.  sin (60) * 240 =
> 207.8
> 
> So, that's where the 208 comes from.  If your mains are actually
> 244 V, then neutral to L3 would be 211.3 V.
> 
> But, you really should not be measuring from the mains neutral, as
> that is not germane to the 3-phase system.  Just measure from each
> line to another.  You should get 240 on each one.

Neglecting ohmic losses, if all 3 phases read within 2 or 3 %, A/B, B/C, 
C/A, then the generated phases absolutely have to be within 10 degrees of 
120 degrees when referenced to either of the other combo's.

So basically, adjust the capacitor sizes, under load, so that the A/C 
voltage is very close to the B/C voltage, and the phases have to be "close 
enough for the girls we go with."  Larger capacitors, ISTR tend to reduce 
the load sensitivity, but there could well be a way to overdo that.

> I have not
> derived the math on this, but I am pretty sure that it is impossible to
> have 240 V from each line to another and have the phase angles
> wrong.  So, if the voltages read balanced, the phase angles ALSO
> have to be correct.

Yes. 
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
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Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: 
The goal of science is to build better mousetraps.  The goal of nature
is to build better mice.

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[Jon Elson]

gene heskett wrote:
> Those were SWAG's, pulled out of you know where, Jon.  The x taps on that 
> autoformer we've been putzing with say 370-390 volts at 22 amps, but do not 
> say total, or per phase, so I chose the worst case scenario or 22 
> amps/phase, which in power in kw would be 390*66=25,740 watts, aka 26kw.  
> Probably, likely wrong.  Feel totally free to correct that assumption.  KVA 
> to kilowatts is one conversion that has NEVER made sense to me.
>   
Well, you can't, unless you know the power factor.  And, as this thing 
is a rectifier,
the power factor is not linear, either.  But, a well-behaved 3-phase 
rectifier shouldn't
have a power factor less than about 80%, so multiplying KW by 1.25 
should give
a reasonable guess at KVA.

It is insanity to try to run a real 25 KVA machine from a 200 A 240 V 
single-phase service.
Although that service is capable of 48 KVA, the imaginary currents of 
the machine
PLUS the horrible imaginary current of a rotary phase converter will 
play havoc
with the service.  If you have your own, private pole transformer (like 
I am so lucky
to have) that helps, but it is still pushing what you are supposed to 
do.  If you are
sharing the transformer with neighbors, it could really cause problems.

Jon

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