Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Tacho Generator?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2020, Todd Zuercher wrote:


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 14:47:56 +
From: Todd Zuercher 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Mesa Tacho Generator?

Is it possible to set up a firmware for a Mesa FPGA that could read the 
encoder velocity from an encoder input and output that velocity as an analog 
command directly to an analog output (hopefully at faster than the servo 
thread rate) in order to bypass having to do that connection in Hal?  Can the 
analog outputs of any of Mesa's daughter cards be updated faster than the 
Servo-thread rate?


Its possible but a fair amount of work, I would try servo thread operation first
(4KHz or so servo thread operation is possible with a decent CPU and PCI/PCIE 
cards) There are a number of people that have done this with decent results



Note that the encoder velocity estimation uses delta_count/delta_time
calculations where delta_time is the time between counts (_Not_ the sample 
time) so the quantization noise is much lower than the +-1 count you would have 
with a delta_count/sample_time velocity calculation.




Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031


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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Tacho Generator?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2020, Todd Zuercher wrote:


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:08:00 +
From: Todd Zuercher 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Tacho Generator?

Mostly, I was hoping to avoid the thread delays of having to go through hal adding 1-2 
more thread cycles to the "staleness" of the data.  (Encoder read/process to 
velocity, Hal read from Mesa, Hal process value/scale, Hal write back to Mesa), and was 
just curious if it had been tried before.


There is less than one thread delay in the "read, process, write" path since all 
operations would be done in a single invocation of the servo thread, though the 
velocity would be the average of the velocity from the last servo thread 
invocation to the current one. (assuming proper thread order). The bandwidth of 
course would be limited by the servo thread rate.




Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-----Original Message-
From: Peter C. Wallace 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2020 1:08 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Tacho Generator?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

On Mon, 7 Dec 2020, Todd Zuercher wrote:


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 14:47:56 +
From: Todd Zuercher 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

Subject: [Emc-users] Mesa Tacho Generator?

Is it possible to set up a firmware for a Mesa FPGA that could read
the encoder velocity from an encoder input and output that velocity as
an analog command directly to an analog output (hopefully at faster
than the servo thread rate) in order to bypass having to do that
connection in Hal?  Can the analog outputs of any of Mesa's daughter
cards be updated faster than the Servo-thread rate?


Its possible but a fair amount of work, I would try servo thread operation 
first (4KHz or so servo thread operation is possible with a decent CPU and 
PCI/PCIE
cards) There are a number of people that have done this with decent results


Note that the encoder velocity estimation uses delta_count/delta_time 
calculations where delta_time is the time between counts (_Not_ the sample
time) so the quantization noise is much lower than the +-1 count you would have 
with a delta_count/sample_time velocity calculation.



Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.<http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/index.php>
630 Henry Street
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031


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Re: [Emc-users] [was Spindle indexing] now rigid tapping help

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2020, Gene Heskett wrote:


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 17:07:58 -0500
From: Gene Heskett 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [was Spindle indexing] now rigid tapping help

On Monday 07 December 2020 12:20:17 Jon Elson wrote:


On 12/07/2020 06:17 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

But it may take a bit, my wife has reached the end stage
of her COPD. Hours, maybe a day or so left. I was invited
to come and visit yesterday despite the covid lock down.
And I'll go back today.


Sorry to hear that, very sad.  Hang in there, and maybe you
can get your mind off it in the shop later.

Jon


Thanks Jon, she was aware I was there, and glad to see me yesterday, but
was unresponsive today when I got back a little after 8ish. Officially
about 13:30 when her struggle to draw another breath was finshed.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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So sorry Gene, And bless you for taking care of her so well.


Peter Wallace



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Re: [Emc-users] 7i96 multi wire input

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020, Sven Wesley wrote:


Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 00:17:11 +0100
From: Sven Wesley 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] 7i96 multi wire input

Friends,


I am in the process of refreshing a CNC that has been running in "temporary
state" the last 12 years, time to give it an overhaul. I've found the magic
little piece we all call 7i96. It will do magic.

The servo drives have been running flawlessly and the plan is to keep them.
They have a neat error/reset feature via two pins and the old parallel port
BOB supports it. If one drive or an emergency stop is triggering the stop
pin, all drives will be halted by the BOB.
The manual for the drive says:







*Error line is pin number 6 in the Main connector and is a dual purpose, bi
directional line.This pin is ??active low??, meaning that the line is
normally high indicating no problems andnormal operation. The drive will
stop if this pin is pulled low (grounded) by one of thesesources:EXTERNAL
activation; The line can be pulled low by an external source (CNCsoftware,
E-stop, etc).  INTERNAL activation; The line is pulled low by the drive
itself due to a faultcondition.*

Am I totally off the chart if I wire all the drives' pin number 6 together
and connect them to one of the inputs on the 7i96 and get it to stop the
program with a big alert? And maybe add a mechanical switch shortcutting to
ground for those panic moments?
If I am not totally stupid, what would the Mesa pin config look like?

All the best,
Sven


I think this is possible if you wire the 7I96 input commom
to +5V so the can sense a logic low. You could also
use a 7I96 output to short the fault pin to ground
if you wanted a software reset capability


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Re: [Emc-users] 7i96 multi wire input

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020, Sven Wesley wrote:


Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 00:53:25 +0100
From: Sven Wesley 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 7i96 multi wire input

Den ons 9 dec. 2020 kl 00:37 skrev Peter C. Wallace :


On Wed, 9 Dec 2020, Sven Wesley wrote:


Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 00:17:11 +0100
Friends,



I am in the process of refreshing a CNC that has been running in

"temporary

state" the last 12 years, time to give it an overhaul. I've found the

magic

little piece we all call 7i96. It will do magic.
...
The manual for the drive says:
Error line is pin number 6 in the Main connector and is a dual purpose,

bi

directional line.This pin is active low, meaning that the line is
normally high indicating no problems and normal operation.
...


Am I totally off the chart if I wire all the drives' pin number 6 together

and connect them to one of the inputs on the 7i96 and get it to stop the
program with a big alert?


I think this is possible if you wire the 7I96 input commom
to +5V so the can sense a logic low. You could also
use a 7I96 output to short the fault pin to ground
if you wanted a software reset capability

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



Hi Peter, thanks for your quick reply!
I'm not sure I am following you, the wire should already be high if it is
in normal state?
There is another pin on the drives for resetting a previous error, it works
the same way and an output should work. Today I use a simple push button
inside the cabinet. :)
/Sven



Yes, the fault pin is normally high and pulled down when a fault occurs
(this allows the fault pins from all axis to be paralleled)

A 7I96 output could be used to reset all drives if desired

A side effect of using a common +5 for the 7I96 inputs is that
you must use a common ground for all limit/home switches etc


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Re: [Emc-users] calibrating the BS-1 battle

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020, Gene Heskett wrote:


Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 19:34:36 -0500
From: Gene Heskett 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] calibrating the BS-1 battle

Greetings all, math whizes in particularly;

I couldn't keep the halmeters out of floating point for displaying
integer numbers when testing at 75+ turns, and I just spent several
hours running it backwards because there is no reset to zero for the
mesa encoders.



setp hm2_card.0.encoder.nn.reset true
setp hm2_card.0.encoder.nn.reset false

will reset the encoder position



So the last attempt was only for ten trips past the home switch. That
kept the halmeters out of sci notation. Tracking the encoders rawcounts
with two sample-holds, first freezing the rawcount at the first switch
passing, the second freezing the raw count at the 10-11 transition. Then
subtracting the first from he second gave 2400114 rawcounts difference.

Divide that by 10 to get 1 turns worth, then divide that by 360 to get 1
degres worth which is a scale of 666.698.

Have I missed anything in my math?

It seems to be working ok, even turns in the right direction now. :)
With around 3 hours at max speed. the psu warmed a bit, the motor warmed
a little more, maybe to 90F, the heat sink on the driver (Look for IBT-2
ON EBAY, its about $7) may have warmed 5F above ambient if that. Within
its voltage limitations of nominally 27 volts, running on 24, no heat
and it makes the motor do almost exactly what you asked. Oh, and claims
it can handle a motor drawing 43 amps.

Now if I could get rid of the bias in stopping points, it always stops
about .0016 degrees lower than requested. From either direction.  The
almost in the previous paragraph.

That is plenty close enough for the girls I've gone with.  And my first
attempt at making a servo work seems to be a success. It can move around
15 degrees a second which is slower than I'd like, but not by that much.

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] for PCW

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 25 Dec 2020, Gene Heskett wrote:


Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2020 15:03:43 -0500
From: Gene Heskett 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] for PCW

Greetings and Merry Christmas.

The 7i76 manual has mention of modes 0, 1, and 2 for reading the analog
voltages applied to the first 4 inputs.

But no place in that lengthy manual does it mention how to switch it so
this mode 1 is enabled so as to enable that ability.


The hostmot2 man page has the information

basically you set the mode with a token/value pair
in the hm2_xxx driver command line like:

sserial_port_0=23xx

(this sets sserial port 0 channel 0 to mode 2 and channel 1 to mode 3)



And it does output a 0-9.9 volt signal for a 0 to 397 HZ input on the
vfd's VO terminal.  So where do I put this mysterious "mode 1" ???

Thanks Peter.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 7 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2021 22:05:32 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

I have a Raspberry Pi 3b+ successfully talking to a
Mesa 7c81, but am now trying to get it working with
a 7i90hd.  I have a very compact pcb made to go
from the 2x20 header on the pi to the 2x13 header
on the 7i90hd.  It is wired:

Signal   Rpi7i90hd
SDI19 13
SDO   21 15
SCK   23  11
SCS   24  17

+5V   2,4 26
GND6,9,20,25,30,34,39 10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24

My test is:
$  mesaflash --device 7i90hd --addr /dev/spidev0.0 --spi --readhmid

Response is:
unable to set bpw32, fallback to bpw8
Unexpected cookie at 0100..0110:
  
No 7I90HD board found

Since a 7c81 works, it would seem my software setup is ok.
The problem would seem to lie with either my little adapter
board or with the 7i90hd.  I have a bypass cap right between
pins 4 and 6 on the RPi connector (22uF 0805 ceramic).  Do
I need to use a four layer board to have sufficient ground
plane?  I have copper pour on the top and bottom of the board,
but it did not go between pins of the connectors.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
-- Ralph




Looks right

2 layer should be fine as long as the ground is solid (wide)
between the 7I90 and the RPI (and lo longer than a couple of
inches

You might try adding a pullup to SDO (7I90 15) to see if you read
0x which would indicate the the 7I90 is not driving SDO

Sure you have a SPI config in the 7I90?


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 7 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2021 23:37:03 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

I assumed that the 7i90hd would recognize SPI
directly, like the 7c81 does.  Do I have to go
dig up a parallel port computer from somewhere
and get at least mesaflash running on it just
so I can get spi working for the pi?  That is an
unfortunate hurdle.  I don't see anything in the
manual about needing to load the correct bitstream
over parallel in order to use spi.  In fact, I read
this in the manual:


Yep, you need to have SPI firmware loaded in the 7I90HD
default 7I90HD firmware is EPP, so a device with a EPP
interface is needed to load the SPI configuration
I would suggest loading the SPI interface into the
secondary flash leaving the primary as EPP for a fallback

That is, power the 7I90 with the flash jumper in the "P" position
them move the jumper to "S" before loadin the SPI firmware




"Linux and Windows utility programs mesaflash and mesaflash.exe are provided to
write configuration files to the 7I90HD EEPROM via the RS-422 interface and 
LBP16. The
linux utility can also write configuration files via the EPP interface. These 
files depend on
a simple SPI interface built into both the standard user FPGA bitfiles and the 
fallback
bitfile."



Well there are 2 SPI interfaces, the HM2 compatible host interface (which needs 
specific SPI firmware) and the SPI Flash memory interface (which is in HM2 
memory space and allows access to the SPI flash chip)




I can tack on a pullup to SDO.  I have put four
scope probes on the four signals, and see data
when interrogating the 7c81, but not the 7i90hd.
The clock from the pi is correct.

Thanks again.
-- Ralph
____
From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2021 3:18 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd


Looks right

2 layer should be fine as long as the ground is solid (wide)
between the 7I90 and the RPI (and lo longer than a couple of
inches

You might try adding a pullup to SDO (7I90 15) to see if you read
0x which would indicate the the 7I90 is not driving SDO

Sure you have a SPI config in the 7I90?


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2021 21:08:55 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

Not having Xilinx Impact tool on the Rpi (or anywhere
at the moment), I found a tutorial on setting up
OpenOCD for jtag on the Rpi.  I have installed OpenOCD
on my RPi 3B+ and connected the gpio to the JTAG pins
on the 7i90HD, following this tutorial:

https://movr0.com/2016/09/02/use-raspberry-pi-23-as-a-jtagswd-adapter/

The last step seems to be to make a configuration
file for the target device.  The EEPROMs are WInbond
25Q16JVNIQ as best I can read the chip labels.  OpenOCD
doesn't have anything that looks directly applicable.
I also don't know where the two chips are in the jtag
chain.


You dont need to do this if you can program the FPGA
(and JTAG programming large EEPROMS is glacially slow)

If you can program the FPGA via JTAG, you program the FPGA with a SPI 
configuration, and then run mesaflash from the RPI to write the

flash memory




Am I heading down a rat hole, or getting close to success?

Thanks again.
-- Ralph
____________
From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2021 3:47 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


On Thu, 7 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2021 23:37:03 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

I assumed that the 7i90hd would recognize SPI
directly, like the 7c81 does.  Do I have to go
dig up a parallel port computer from somewhere
and get at least mesaflash running on it just
so I can get spi working for the pi?  That is an
unfortunate hurdle.  I don't see anything in the
manual about needing to load the correct bitstream
over parallel in order to use spi.  In fact, I read
this in the manual:


Yep, you need to have SPI firmware loaded in the 7I90HD
default 7I90HD firmware is EPP, so a device with a EPP
interface is needed to load the SPI configuration
I would suggest loading the SPI interface into the
secondary flash leaving the primary as EPP for a fallback

That is, power the 7I90 with the flash jumper in the "P" position
them move the jumper to "S" before loadin the SPI firmware




"Linux and Windows utility programs mesaflash and mesaflash.exe are provided to
write configuration files to the 7I90HD EEPROM via the RS-422 interface and 
LBP16. The
linux utility can also write configuration files via the EPP interface. These 
files depend on
a simple SPI interface built into both the standard user FPGA bitfiles and the 
fallback
bitfile."



Well there are 2 SPI interfaces, the HM2 compatible host interface (which needs
specific SPI firmware) and the SPI Flash memory interface (which is in HM2
memory space and allows access to the SPI flash chip)



I can tack on a pullup to SDO.  I have put four
scope probes on the four signals, and see data
when interrogating the 7c81, but not the 7i90hd.
The clock from the pi is correct.

Thanks again.
-- Ralph

From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2021 3:18 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd


Looks right

2 layer should be fine as long as the ground is solid (wide)
between the 7I90 and the RPI (and lo longer than a couple of
inches

You might try adding a pullup to SDO (7I90 15) to see if you read
0x which would indicate the the 7I90 is not driving SDO

Sure you have a SPI config in the 7I90?


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 23:48:56 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

I've made a bit of progress now.  I found a Digilent HS2
jtag dongle, and got to the point of (apparently) successfully
loading an SPI bitstream to the 7I90 (chose 7i90_spi_svst4_8.bit).

Running:

$ mesaflash --device 7i90hd --addr /dev/spidev0.0 --spi --readhmid

gives me the same "no 7I90HD board found" error though.  I tried
adding a pullup resistor to the SDO pin, without change, which
would seem to indicate the 7I90HD is actively driving it low.

Is there a very simple blinky bitstream I can try loading to
be sure the jtag loading is successful?  The /INIT yellow led
flashes briefly, and /DONE red led does go on during the load
and goes off afterward.

Thanks again.
-- Ralph



Theres no blinky light test bitfile but if you load the sserial
remote bitfile 7i90_ssremote.bit, The init LED should light once
configured (well 50 ms after configured indicating a watchdog timeout)


________
From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 1:22 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


On Fri, 8 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2021 21:08:55 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

Not having Xilinx Impact tool on the Rpi (or anywhere
at the moment), I found a tutorial on setting up
OpenOCD for jtag on the Rpi.  I have installed OpenOCD
on my RPi 3B+ and connected the gpio to the JTAG pins
on the 7i90HD, following this tutorial:

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmovr0.com%2F2016%2F09%2F02%2Fuse-raspberry-pi-23-as-a-jtagswd-adapter%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C0e816ca3cbad4d7d899008d8b41b9984%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637457377919675638%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=6NnpSk67I%2FpHEaLUmq1Fmg0%2FX6XH2KpNqNghMfBq6lk%3D&reserved=0

The last step seems to be to make a configuration
file for the target device.  The EEPROMs are WInbond
25Q16JVNIQ as best I can read the chip labels.  OpenOCD
doesn't have anything that looks directly applicable.
I also don't know where the two chips are in the jtag
chain.


You dont need to do this if you can program the FPGA
(and JTAG programming large EEPROMS is glacially slow)

If you can program the FPGA via JTAG, you program the FPGA with a SPI
configuration, and then run mesaflash from the RPI to write the
flash memory




Am I heading down a rat hole, or getting close to success?

Thanks again.
-- Ralph

From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2021 3:47 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


On Thu, 7 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2021 23:37:03 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

I assumed that the 7i90hd would recognize SPI
directly, like the 7c81 does.  Do I have to go
dig up a parallel port computer from somewhere
and get at least mesaflash running on it just
so I can get spi working for the pi?  That is an
unfortunate hurdle.  I don't see anything in the
manual about needing to load the correct bitstream
over parallel in order to use spi.  In fact, I read
this in the manual:


Yep, you need to have SPI firmware loaded in the 7I90HD
default 7I90HD firmware is EPP, so a device with a EPP
interface is needed to load the SPI configuration
I would suggest loading the SPI interface into the
secondary flash leaving the primary as EPP for a fallback

That is, power the 7I90 with the flash jumper in the "P" position
them move the jumper to "S" before loadin the SPI firmware




"Linux and Windows utility programs mesaflash and mesaflash.exe are provided to
write configuration files to the 7I90HD EEPROM via the RS-422 interface and 
LBP16. The
linux utility can also write configuration files via the EPP interface. These 
files depend on
a simple SPI interface built into both the standard user FPGA bitfiles and the 
fallback
bitfile."



Well there are 2 SPI interfaces, the HM2 compatible host interface (which needs
specific SPI firmware) and the SPI Flash memory interface (which is in HM2
memory space a

Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Tue, 12 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 01:10:47 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

Ok, 7i90_ssremote.bit lights the red led after
configuration, so it appears I can successfully
load bitstreams over jtag.  Mesaflash still does
not recognize the board over spi with an spi
config loaded though (all  cookies).

Is there anything that needs to be done
differently on the RPi 3b+ to communicate
with the 7i90 via spi versus the 7c81?


It should be identical, and AFAIK the mesaflash interface
should be less picky since it runs at a lower clock speed
than the default hm2-rpspi driver

Are all RPI grounds connected to all 7I90 26 pin
header grounds?




Is the next step to cobble up some vhdl to
verify all the pins on the spi interface side
are functioning?  I suppose somewhere along
the line I might have blown a pin.



If you blow a  pin, it will usually show as the
protection diode being damaged. You can check
this with a DVMs diode check function. Connect
the DVMs positive lead to 7I90 ground and check
the diode voltage drop on the SPI leads, they should
all be ~.7V






I'd really like to get this working, as I'm putting
together a standard package I can use for all
our custom controllers for machines and instruments.
Bioprinters, syringe pumps, bioreactors, routers,
pick & place, hotwire foam cutters.  I'm tired of
random castoff pc's.

Thanks again,
-- Ralph
____________
From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 4:34 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


On Mon, 11 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 23:48:56 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

I've made a bit of progress now.  I found a Digilent HS2
jtag dongle, and got to the point of (apparently) successfully
loading an SPI bitstream to the 7I90 (chose 7i90_spi_svst4_8.bit).

Running:

$ mesaflash --device 7i90hd --addr /dev/spidev0.0 --spi --readhmid

gives me the same "no 7I90HD board found" error though.  I tried
adding a pullup resistor to the SDO pin, without change, which
would seem to indicate the 7I90HD is actively driving it low.

Is there a very simple blinky bitstream I can try loading to
be sure the jtag loading is successful?  The /INIT yellow led
flashes briefly, and /DONE red led does go on during the load
and goes off afterward.

Thanks again.
-- Ralph



Theres no blinky light test bitfile but if you load the sserial
remote bitfile 7i90_ssremote.bit, The init LED should light once
configured (well 50 ms after configured indicating a watchdog timeout)



From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 1:22 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


On Fri, 8 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2021 21:08:55 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

Not having Xilinx Impact tool on the Rpi (or anywhere
at the moment), I found a tutorial on setting up
OpenOCD for jtag on the Rpi.  I have installed OpenOCD
on my RPi 3B+ and connected the gpio to the JTAG pins
on the 7i90HD, following this tutorial:

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmovr0.com%2F2016%2F09%2F02%2Fuse-raspberry-pi-23-as-a-jtagswd-adapter%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7Ca6b208efa1e04d60413b08d8b691d2fb%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637460084714990924%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=kGU9s6afPWfk9ojmZVO7CbY4DVNPM%2F6rgwAFTrJsqT8%3D&reserved=0

The last step seems to be to make a configuration
file for the target device.  The EEPROMs are WInbond
25Q16JVNIQ as best I can read the chip labels.  OpenOCD
doesn't have anything that looks directly applicable.
I also don't know where the two chips are in the jtag
chain.


You dont need to do this if you can program the FPGA
(and JTAG programming large EEPROMS is glacially slow)

If you can program the FPGA via JTAG, you program the FPGA with a SPI
configuration, and then run mesaflash from the RPI to write the
flash memory




Am I heading down a rat hole, or getting close to success?

Thanks again.
-- Ralph

From: 

Re: [Emc-users] measuring frequency with 7i90

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 14 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 17:40:51 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
Subject: [Emc-users] measuring frequency with 7i90

I am using an AD7740 voltage-to-frequency converter
and Mesa 7i90 encoder input to measure an analog
voltage.  The AD7740 circuit is working ok, with a 0-100kHz
pulse train output.  I have the encoder function set to
counter-mode 1, and have the pulse train connected
to the encoder A input.  I am not getting any velocity
or counts though.  Is there some additional step needed
to enable frequency measurement?  The encoder B input
is not connected.  I have tried it with and without hires-timestamp.

Thanks,
-- Ralph


That should work, in fact, thats how our THCAD for plasma works.
what is the pulse length? if the encoder filter is enabled
it will ignore the pulses if they are shorter than 15 encoder
sample periods (nominally 600 ns at the default 25 MHz
encoder sample rate)




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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] measuring frequency with 7i90

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 14 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:13:57 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] measuring frequency with 7i90

Pulse widths are 16us or greater.

I am using a custom bitfile.  For the pins I wanted to
connect my AD7740's to, I changed the NullTag lines
to:

   IOPortTag & x"00" & QCountTag & QCountQAPin, -- I/O 21
   IOPortTag & x"01" & QCountTag & QCountQAPin, -- I/O 22

The encoder #0 and #1 pin A's show up when loading
linuxcnc.  I also tried adding QCountQBPin's to unused I/O's,
but that did not make any difference.  Do I need to have
index pins loaded too?  I didn't get any errors from the
Xilinx tools (except the sim error at the end after bitstream
generation is finished).

I've posted my configuration at:
https://gab.wallawalla.edu/~ralph.stirling/projects/linuxcnc/2gbp

-- Ralph


No, there is no requirement for all pins to be present in any hm2 module. In 
fact, the plasma configurations that may use multiple THCADs replace the spindle 
encoder A0,B0,Z0 pins with A0,A1,A2 pins to support up to three V-F converters. 
Note that unconnected input pins will be terminated to a logic low level so the 
unconnected 'B' input will be at a low level so the counting will be in the down 
direction when in counter mode (and a negative velocity value)






From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:59 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] measuring frequency with 7i90

On Thu, 14 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 17:40:51 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
Subject: [Emc-users] measuring frequency with 7i90

I am using an AD7740 voltage-to-frequency converter
and Mesa 7i90 encoder input to measure an analog
voltage.  The AD7740 circuit is working ok, with a 0-100kHz
pulse train output.  I have the encoder function set to
counter-mode 1, and have the pulse train connected
to the encoder A input.  I am not getting any velocity
or counts though.  Is there some additional step needed
to enable frequency measurement?  The encoder B input
is not connected.  I have tried it with and without hires-timestamp.

Thanks,
-- Ralph


That should work, in fact, thats how our THCAD for plasma works.
what is the pulse length? if the encoder filter is enabled
it will ignore the pulses if they are shorter than 15 encoder
sample periods (nominally 600 ns at the default 25 MHz
encoder sample rate)




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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] measuring frequency with 7i90

[Peter C. Wallace]

Does the state of the A input show up in hal?
that is, does hm2_7i90.0.encoder.00.input-a
reflect the status of the FPGA pin?


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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Re: [Emc-users] Another Mesa vhdl question

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 16:40:29 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Another Mesa vhdl question

The AD7740 v-to-f converters don't work as well
as I'd like, and I'm thinking about just using a
little microcontroller, like the STM32G031 to do
my A/D conversion.  While I could generate a
pulse train with frequency or period proportional
to voltage, I got to looking at bit files that include
a UART.  For the tiny amounts of data I need to
send, the simple UART with 115kbaud rate should
work fine at normal servo thread periods.

So, I have tried both stock *UA* bitfiles and a custom
bitfile with UART incorporated, and I get errors about
InstanceStride not matching expectations with either.

Turning on debug_idrom, I see that InstanceStride is
either 0x04 or 0x40, but the expected value is 0x10.
It isn't clear to me whether I want to select Instance
Stride 0 or 1 in my vhdl, but neither would match the
expected value.

hm2/hm2_7i90.0: Instance Stride 0: 0x0004
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: Instance Stride 1: 0x0040
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: Register Stride 0: 0x0100
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: Register Stride 1: 0x0100
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: inconsistent Module Descriptor for UART Transmit Channel, not 
loading driver
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: Version = 0, expected 0
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: NumRegisters = 4, expected 4
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: InstanceStride = 0x0040, expected 0x0010
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: MultipleRegisters = 0x000F, expected 0x000F
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: inconsistent Module Descriptor!
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: failed to parse Module Descriptor 4

Am I doing something wrong, has a bug crept into the
code, or is this just untested territory?  If it is a bug, is
it in the vhdl or the hostmot2 code?

Thanks again,
-- Ralph

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Note that you can improve V-F readout performance by setting the
encoders "hires-timestamp" pin true

The UART requires the alternate instance stride (stride 1) set to 0x10
This is done in the top level file (its a awful kludge and means some
typs of modules cannot be combined)

I would suggest using the PKTUART instead as the PKTUART
uses standard instance strides (0= 0x04,1=0x40)

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed changes with threading.

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 15:58:12 -0800
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed changes with threading.

---


Just trying to get my head around this.  The spindle position is really only 
known by the index pulse.  Knowing both Z axis acceleration and target speed 
the Z is started N spindle encoder counts before an index pulse so it's up to 
speed the instant the spindle ticks over another index.  How many turns of the 
spindle that takes then doesn't matter.


John




AFAIK the Z position for threading is fully "geared"to the spindle position
during the entire threading pass so index is only used for initial sync. The Z 
position will alway be correct after the initial Z acceleration to reach

synchronization, regardless of the speed or change in speed of the spindle.

_But_ Changes at the beginning of the thread can occur with varying spindle 
speeds because of X and Z acceleration and velocity limits. These can change the 
start of thread position or even make threads with varing pitch if Z is not up 
to speed when cutting begins




Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed changes with threading.

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Gene Heskett wrote:


But because once locked, its not a big deal if the cutting load slows the
spindle 25%, its still locked at that phase angle and it will stay that
way until the end of THAT cut stroke.  But if YOU change the spindle
speed, then YOU have changed the synch delay at the start of the next
stroke and that changes the cutter position as it tracks the next
stroke, cutting a wider groove with that next stroke. If you speed it
up, the extra cut is the back edge of the tool because it synched later
in the spindles rotation.


I dont think thats true, the initial delays do not affect the thread
past any initial issues when the thread starts.
This is because once synchronized, the Z is effectively in a _position_
locked loop with spindle rotation relative to the accumulated angle
past the index. Changing the speed may change the start of the threads
due to the lock-in time but not that main threading pass. You can verify this
by turning the spindle by hand and doing multiple threading passses.



Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed changes with threading.

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Gene Heskett wrote:


Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 23:36:37 -0500
From: Gene Heskett 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed changes with threading.

On Monday 18 January 2021 22:21:00 Peter C. Wallace wrote:


On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Gene Heskett wrote:

But because once locked, its not a big deal if the cutting load
slows the spindle 25%, its still locked at that phase angle and it
will stay that way until the end of THAT cut stroke.  But if YOU
change the spindle speed, then YOU have changed the synch delay at
the start of the next stroke and that changes the cutter position as
it tracks the next stroke, cutting a wider groove with that next
stroke. If you speed it up, the extra cut is the back edge of the
tool because it synched later in the spindles rotation.


I dont think thats true, the initial delays do not affect the thread
past any initial issues when the thread starts.
This is because once synchronized, the Z is effectively in a
_position_ locked loop with spindle rotation relative to the
accumulated angle past the index. Changing the speed may change the
start of the threads due to the lock-in time but not that main
threading pass. You can verify this by turning the spindle by hand and
doing multiple threading passses.


This is true of both G76 and G33.1, with G33.1 maintaining sync until the
tap has been totally withdrawn, while G76 releases the synch during the
Z retrace, so it can move at G0 speed, then both checks spindle-at-speed
and if true, starts the next pass on the index if you've written a peck
loop, exactly the same as for a single pass if your spindle has the
hueavos to do it in one pass.

Hidden in this is the fact that either resyncs the spindle to z phaseing
at the starting/resting place for either a G76 or a g33.1 for every
stroke it makes. And a change in spindle speed will change that phasing,
screwing up the thread.


I dont think so, both G33 and G76  are _position_ locked so the initial
start of thread may vary but the thread phasing is independent of spindle
speed.


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed changes with threading.

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021, Gene Heskett wrote:


It wasn't the last time I tested it Jon, and most of the recent
conversations here are ignoreing the fact that every new stroke,
starting from its resting position, regardless of whether its a G76 or
you are "pecking" a G33.1 for rigid tapping, is a NEW sync action, and
its here that diddling the the spindle speed affects both the accel time
to get Z up to sync speed, so in addition to the spindle turning further
at a higher speed, it also takes Z longer to get up to that higher speed
and become phase locked. This combined change in the delay from 0 to
locked is changing the phasing between the spindle and the tool at about
2x the change in spindle speed. And screwing up your thread.



As long as the sync can happen before the tool hits the metal that will be no 
error in the created thread (no phase error) regardless of when the speed change 
occurs. The only change will be where the thread starts. Once synced, this is 
basically identical to a mechanical lathe (when the half nut is engaged).



Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed changes with threading.

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021, Todd Zuercher wrote:


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2021 20:50:49 +
From: Todd Zuercher 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed changes with threading.

I under stand the analogy, but I wonder if Linuxcnc is erroneously behaving as 
if the "leadscrew" were multiple start, with the number of starts equal to the 
encoder's counts/rev.  Resulting in the syncing of the axis to the spindle is 
inconsistent if the syncing move isn't always the same?  (Not saying this is 
how it is, just proposing a possible reason if the problem is real.)


I don't do any threading or have any machines with a spindle encoder.  But I 
have observed this debate on whether this problem exists in Linuxcnc for years 
now here on this list.


Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031


I dont think, the z position is "geared" to the counts beyond
index so locked unambiguously to spindle angle beyond index,
after initial sync is acheived.


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics
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Re: [Emc-users] Another Mesa vhdl question

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 22:06:45 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Another Mesa vhdl question

I've got the STMBL code flashed on an STM32F407G Discovery
eval board, and running with the Servoterm control software
(which I am very delighted to have achieved).

I seem to be missing something in setting up sserial in Linuxcnc
though.  Axis loads without error, but shows only gpio for the
pins that are supposed to be sserial.  Here is what I've done:

1. Vhdl file has sserial module tag defined.

   (SSerialTag,x"00",  ClockLowTag,x"01",  
SSerialCommandAddr&PadT,SSerialNumRegs, x"10",  SSerialMPBitMask),

2. Vhdl file has sserial pins defined.

   IOPortTag & x"00" & SSerialTag & SSerialRX0Pin,  -- I/O 48
   IOPortTag & x"00" & SSerialTag & SSerialTX0Pin,  -- I/O 49
   IOPortTag & x"00" & SSerialTag & SSerialTXEn0Pin,-- I/O 50

3. HAL file has config including sserial_port_0 defined.  Linuxcnc version is 
2.8.1
  running on Raspberry Pi 3b+ buster.

  loadrt hostmot2 debug_idrom=1
  loadrt hm2_rpspi config="num_encoders=2 num_pwmgens=2 num_stepgens=4 
sserial_port_0=0XXX" spiclk_rate=12500

4. The STMBL sserial rx pin (PA10) is connected to the 7i90 pin P3-01 and 
sserial tx pin (PA8) is connected to 7i90 P3-03.

5. When I run linuxcnc, those pins show up as gpio.

  hm2/hm2_7i90.0: Smart Serial Firmware Version 43
  
  hm2/hm2_7i90.0: IO Pin 048 (P3-01): IOPort
  hm2/hm2_7i90.0: IO Pin 049 (P3-03): IOPort

6. A scope watching PA8/P3-03 and PA10/P3-01 shows
   a series of 10us active low pulses on PA8/P3-03.
   PA10/P3-01 has short glitches.  To minimize signal
   integrity issues, I stacked some connectors to join
   the STMBL board and the 7I90.  Signals were the
   same using 6" jumper wires though.

(see photos at 
https://gab.wallawalla.edu/~ralph.stirling/projects/linuxcnc/stmbl)

7. On the STMBL board, I have a config of:

load sserial
load adc

sserial0.pos_fb = adc0.cos0

I'm hoping there is just some simple step I'm missing.  I
don't know if the problem lies at the STMBL or 7I90 end.


Looks like you have RX connected to RX and TX to TX
you need RX to TX and TX to RX


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] Another Mesa vhdl question

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 22:27:34 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Another Mesa vhdl question

I've tried it both ways, and while the pulse train
moves to the other trace, I get no more response.

-- Ralph


Well its  neccesary  for FPGA TX --> uC RX  and  uC TX --> FPGA RX
but clearly not sufficient. Are you sure the uC baud rate is correct?




________
From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 2:15 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Another Mesa vhdl question

Looks like you have RX connected to RX and TX to TX
you need RX to TX and TX to RX


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] hostmot2 bspi interface

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 25 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 16:49:10 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
Subject: [Emc-users] hostmot2 bspi interface

So while I'm exploring hostmot2 communication interfaces,
I figured I might as well be thorough and try out BSPI (again,
as I looked into it several years ago briefly).  In the latest
incarnation, the man page (hostmot2, lcnc 2.19-pre0) says
that a set of functions are exported:

BSPI
  The  BSPI  (Buffered  SPI) driver is unusual in that it does not create
  any HAL pins. Instead the driver exports a set of functions that can be
  used  by  a sub-driver for the attached hardware. Typically these would
  be written in the "comp"

  pre-processing  language:   see   http://linux‐
  cnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp.html  or man halcompile for further details.
  See man mesa_7i65 and the source of mesa_7i65.comp  for  details  of  a
  typical sub-driver.  See manhm2_bspi_setup_chan,man
  hm2_bspi_write_chan,   man   hm2_tram_add_bspi_frame,   man   hm2_allo‐
  cate_bspi_tram,  man  hm2_bspi_set_read_funtion and man
  hm2_bspi_set_write_function for the exported functions.

  The names of the available channels are printed to standard output dur‐
  ing   the   driver   loading  process  and  take  the  form  hm2_..bspi. For example hm2_5i23.0.bspi.0

So, I have a bitstream loaded with a BSPI channel and get this in my axis load:

...
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: created Buffered SPI function hm2_7i90.0.bspi.0.
...
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: IO Pin 024 (P2-01): Buffered SPI Interface #0, pin /Frame 
(Output)
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: IO Pin 025 (P2-03): Buffered SPI Interface #0, pin Serial 
Out (Output)
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: IO Pin 026 (P2-05): Buffered SPI Interface #0, pin Clock 
(Output)
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: IO Pin 027 (P2-07): Buffered SPI Interface #0, pin Serial 
In (Input)
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: IO Pin 028 (P2-09): Buffered SPI Interface #0, pin CS2 
(Output)
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: IO Pin 029 (P2-11): Buffered SPI Interface #0, pin CS1 
(Output)
hm2/hm2_7i90.0: IO Pin 030 (P2-13): Buffered SPI Interface #0, pin CS0 
(Output)

I do not, however, see any of the advertised functions appear in the machine 
configuration.
Am I misunderstanding what "exported functions" means?  The only functions that 
appear
are ones I addf'ed.  I've looked at the mesa_7i65.comp example, but I'd like to 
see a hal
file that uses mesa_7i65.  There doesn't seem to be any such example in the 
source tree.

Thanks again.
-- Ralph




http://freeby.mesanet.com/7i65.zip

Peter Wallace
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Re: [Emc-users] Some questions about 6i25 and 7i77+7i74 combo

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sat, 13 Feb 2021, Viesturs L?cis wrote:


Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 20:44:58 +0200
From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Some questions about 6i25 and 7i77+7i74 combo

Hello!

I am trying to figure out, how to set up HAL config for 6i25 card that
will have 7i77 and 7i74 attached to it.
I flashed it with 5i25_7i77_7i74.bit firmware. I did also --verify and
it reports that board configuration verified successfully. Is this
correct approach?

Then I am puzzled about pwmgens. I do not see tham in HalConfig. I
suspect that they are replaced with analogout0, analogout1 etc. How do
I connect them in HAL? Are they equivalent for pwmgen.n.value pins?


Yes, they are replaced by the analogoutN pins plus they have associated scaling 
and bounding pins.


I would use pncconf to create a sample configuration which will illustrate the 
pin connections and parameter setting. Also 'man sserial'





Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] Some questions about 6i25 and 7i77+7i74 combo

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021, Viesturs L?cis wrote:


Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 16:26:41 +0200
From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Some questions about 6i25 and 7i77+7i74 combo

sv??td., 2021. g. 14. febr., plkst. 11:57 ?? lietot??js andy pugh
() rakst??ja:

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 at 09:46, Viesturs L??cis  
wrote:


> What I did notice there is that I do not understand, how to determine,
> which gpio pins are outputs and which are inputs. For 7i96 board
> outputs have ssr in the pin name. 7i77 also has output drivers on
> board so I would expect them assigned to particular gpio pin number.

No. The 7i77 GPIO is serially addressed. If you have a 7i77 you will
not use the 5i25 GPIO pins at all, as they are allocated to other
tasks (in the main)

Your 7i77 GPIO inputs and outputs will be under

hm2_5i25.0.7i77...


Then I have no idea, what I am missing.
I have only analog outputs under hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1


This likely means you do not have field power applied to the isolated digital 
I/O section of the 7I77 (orange connector)



https://www.picpasteplus.com/v.php?i=32f5542e1e

Viesturs


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Some questions about 6i25 and 7i77+7i74 combo

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021, Viesturs L?cis wrote:


Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 18:50:12 +0200
From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Some questions about 6i25 and 7i77+7i74 combo

sv??td., 2021. g. 14. febr., plkst. 17:43 ?? lietot??js andy pugh

() rakst??ja:


On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 at 15:06, Viesturs L??cis  wrote:

> How do I specify in HAL file, what mode 7i77 should use? I intend to
> use mode 0 - analog outputs, encoder inputs and onboard I/O pins,

It will default to Mode 0.

But you set it with the "loadrt hm2_pci
config="...sserial_port_0=02xx." (for mode 2)



Ok, thank you!
Just wanted to confirm that after connecting field power to 7i77 all
the gpio pins did show up and now they were like I expected - inputs
and outputs already defined.
I used the opportunity to connect also 7i66 and 7i64 boards to 7i74
and they also showed up in HalShow with all the pin names all clear to
me - so far so good.

I have one more question: do I understand correctly that there is no
field power input for 7i64, meaning that I cannot power it with 24
VDC? in that case - any suggestions for simple 24V to 5V voltage
conversion? It will be placed on top of Y axis carriage in a retrofit
Biesse-equivalent woodworking machine and only 24 VDC are available
there.

The 7I64 has low enough power draw that it can be powered via the CAT5 serial 
cable



Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] Some questions about 6i25 and 7i77+7i74 combo

[Peter C. Wallace]

The 7I64 has low enough power draw that it can be powered via the CAT5 serial
cable



Manual says that it is for cable length less than 5 feet, which is
about 1,5 m. This machine will have cable length of 10+ m. I thought
that voltage drop would be too large.
Well, I guess that there is only one way to find out for sure :))

Viesturs


You can get some improvement by using 22GA CAT6 cable
which woud be about 0.5 Ohm for 10 Meters so about
100 mV drop in the 5V



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Re: [Emc-users] 7i76 spindle speed control with Cyclotrol C150 Controller

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2021, Alan Condit wrote:


Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:53:26 -0600
From: Alan Condit 
To: "Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" ,
Wallace Peter C. 
Subject: 7i76 spindle speed control with Cyclotrol C150 Controller


PCW,

I am trying to use my 7i76 Mesa card??s spindle control to control the speed on 
my DanFoss Cyclotrol C150 controller. The manual says,


"PROCESS CONTROL SIGNALS
A 0-10v dc control signal input may be used by connecting process signal(+) to 
SP2 and process(-) to SP3. With tachometer feedback, the motor speed will track 
the process voltage to better than 1 % linearity. The input impedance is 
approx. 50K ohms.
Current process signals may be used with an additional resistor. A 1-5 mA signal can be 
accommodated by shunting SP2 and SP3 with a 2.0K ohms, 1 /2 watt resistor; for 4-20 mA, 
use a 500 ohms , 1 /2 watt. Set the "P" switch in the closed (up) position, to 
allow the Cycletrol 150 to operate with current process signals.??



OPEN SWITCHES (DOWN)
"A??, ??B??, ??C??, ??D"
BASIC SPEED CONTROL
Control RUNS/STOPS from a single input command.
Closure on JOG puts Cycletrol into a RUN mode.
Opening the JOG produces a STOP command.





I am not sure if SP1 should connect to Spindle+ or Spindle-. I am pretty sure 
SP2 should be SpindleOut. SP3 should connect to either Spindle- or Spindle+ 
which ever is left open after connecting SP1. Can anyone tell from the info I 
have furnished what the correct wiring should be. I am leaning towards Spindle- 
to SP3, SpindleOut to SP2 and Spindle+ to SP1. If I guess wrong will it damage 
the 7i76 board?

The full manual is at 
>


Thanks,
Alan


As long as the voltage at SP1 is less than 15V, (relative to SP3) you should be 
OK with


SP1 --> SPIN+
SP2 --> SPINOUT
SP3 --> SPIN-

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics
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Re: [Emc-users] rt data logging

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 18:48:37 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
Subject: [Emc-users] rt data logging

I would like to do some realtime data logging
from hal to disk at servo thread rates.  It seems
like it shouldn't be terribly hard to make something
out of scope_rt.c, but I would hate to reinvent any
wheels.  Halscope as such captures too short an
interval.  I'd like to write out the captured data in
blocks, but not lose data between blocks.


Isnt this what hal-sampler does?




Anybody done something like this?

Thanks,
-- Ralph

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Re: [Emc-users] Rpi4 -> 7i90

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 19:26:58 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi4 -> 7i90

You have to get an spi bitfile loaded before you can use spi.  I rigged up jtag 
with openocd on my Rpi3b+ to bootstrap the 7i90.

-- Ralph


You can use EPP also since the defualt 7I90 firmware is EPP
(assuming you have a PC with a EPP parallel port +mesaflash)




On Feb 26, 2021 11:10 AM, dave engvall  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


Hi all,
I finally decided I needed to bite the bullet and see if I could get my
Rpi4B-7i90 combo to work.

So: mesaflash --device 7i90   -spi  --addr  /dev/spidev0.0 --write
/bitfiles/7i90_spi_svst8_8im2.bit

unable to set bpw32, fallback to bpw8
unexpected cookie at 0100..0110:
  
No 7i90 board found.

What am I missing? | what to I need to add/change?

The combination I'm looking for is: 6 encoders, 6 pwm  and enough i/o to
sense axis limits.
follow on from 7i90 is one or two 7i33's

Thanks.

Dave




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Re: [Emc-users] Rpi4 -> 7i90

[Peter C. Wallace]

The 7i90 is designed to be programmed from an epp parport, and I don't 
believe it can be programmed again once an spi interface has been put in 
it with out doing some jumper moving to reset it to parport drive before 
it can be reprogrammed again.  Its explained in the docs for it. It is 
also an unbuffered 3.3 volt device, and any noise below ground or above 
3.4 volts will destroy it, so make sure you have enough 7i42TA's to 
buffer and protect it. A single bolt star ground is very important 
around the 7i90. Each 7i42TA buffers 1 50 pin, 24 i/o lines, so all 72 
needs 3 of them and short 50 pin to 50 pin ribbon jumpers. Substitute 
7i33TA's for the 7i42TA's in your case so you'll need two 7i33TA's and 
one 7i42TA for the gpio stuffs since each 7i33TA only handles 4 servo's 
including their encoder returns. The TA versions are worth their price 
in bottled beer because of the built in  screw terminals.


Cheers, Gene Heskett


Thats not quite true, the 7I90 I/O pins will all take voltages from about
-0.5V to +7V. That said, the I/O pins are bare IC pins and are easy to
damage with negative inputs unless there is some current limiting. This is 
because all I/O pins have ESD protection diodes with anode to ground and

cathode to the I/O pin. These diodes are tiny and can be damaged by current

10 mA. How do you get a negative input? Its very easy, simply connecting
an I/O pin to frame ground will do it if there is any high frequency, high 
current device in the immediate area (Step drives, servo drives, VFDs etc)

Also connecting any external device to the FPGA card when a common ground
has not been established between the device and the FPGA card will do
it as well. If you are using bare FPGA pins and you have noisy grounds
you can protect the I/O pins by adding a series resistor (say 470 Ohms)


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] Following Error Joint 2

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 3 Mar 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2021 16:42:25 -0800
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Following Error Joint 2


I made another video with the new 3D printed pulley.  Much better balanced as 
I made the inner hole and outside hub thicker and then bored and turned it to 
the correct diameter and concentric with each other. Now just shows the Z axis 
jogging up and down after homing.  I still get the occasional following error 
but it seems that's a LinuxCNC issue and not the motor.  Or it's electrical 
noise because the table is loaded down with two vices and a rotary table.  I 
think close to 200 lbs extra.  I'll have to weigh it. 
https://youtu.be/AJWI09C6h7U


I've read through this thread.  I'm using the MESA 7i92H which is Ethernet 
based and it's only the PC and the MESA on the network. 
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration/27171-joint-2-following-error?start=10


Without all the extra weight on the table there is no following error.  If I 
remove BACKLASH compensation there is no following error.  It appears to go 
away if I make sure that the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL is set to double the 
MAX_ACCELERATION.


My parameters are
P = 1000.0
I = 0.0
D = 0.0
FF0 = 0.0
FF1 = 1.0
FF2 = 0.0
BIAS = 0.0
DEADBAND = 0.0

PCW on that forum stated that "For PID control of the stepgen, the stepgen is 
put into velocity mode and a basic velocity mode PID setting is used (FF1 = 
1.000, FF2 = .001 (servo period) P= ~150)"


My SERVO_PERIOD = 100 So should FF2 be set to that?  Or is the stepgen 
even in velocity mode and does it matter?


You need to double the stepgen acceleration settings if backlash
is enabled. That alone may be the reason for your following errors.


Normally FF2=0 is ok unless you are worried about following errors in the u 
region (FF2 should be set for the number of seconds between reading the stepgen 
position and writing the new velocity so normally a very small number)






What I don't understand is why extra weight made it show up. The AC Servo 
Drive is not showing an error and motor current rarely goes above 3.5A at 
220VAC or about 770W.


John


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Re: [Emc-users] Following Error Joint 2

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 3 Mar 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2021 23:11:23 -0800
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Following Error Joint 2



The comment on the link about Ethernet latency is what interested me.
Again if electrical noise causes retries or delays in the Ethernet
signalling then that could cause this sort of error under heavy load.

John


And this is what the high frequency gains do, FF2 and Dgain, giving a
boost when the velocity changes. All this assumes that the actual power
available is sufficient to achieve what the controller is asked to make
it do. If the available power sags with the initial accell but the speed
being asked is so high the power available cannot catch it up and is
limiting you then following errors creep into long distance moves.

Hi Gene, My AC Servo is run open loop with step/dir.  It's not the Servo 
Driver that is calling out a following error.  It's LinuxCNC that also has no 
clue where the motor actually is unless the AC servo asserts a fault output. 
And it can't do that because I disconnected it for this test.


I don't know how the Ethernet Communications with the MESA 7i92H works.  Page 
8 of the user manual says it's UDP which means launch and forget.  The sender 
has no way of knowing if the message was received although with only two 
devices perhaps there's a lower level that does verify that.


In either case Page 31 states there are error counters so if there is a packet 
error that is detected after a new motion command is issued; like change 
direction for example.  Then LinuxCNC might well decide to throw up a 
following error.


I will admit that I misread the HAL instructions and had the MAX_ACCELERATION 
parameter set to 125% higher.  But with Backlash it was supposed to be 200%. 
Once I changed that the problem went away.  So bad HAL info generates a 
following error?  Except that never happened without the extra 92 lbs on the 
table.


A following error is _expected_ if the stepgen maxaccel parameter is not at 
least 2x the joints maxaccel value (or if any stepgen constraint is lower

than what linuxCNC may command it to do) So HAL setup can absolutely cause
following errors.


But if electrical noise from the higher load did cause a damaged UDP packet 
then there's the answer.  A quick change in direction to handle backlash and a 
missing message throws out the timing and results in a following error. John


You can check this by plotting hm2_7i92.packet-error , but if setting the 
stepgen maxaccel value stops the following errors it does not seem likely they 
are caused by lost packets. Plotting the following error will also give you some 
insight into whats going on.










Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] Following Error Joint 2

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2021 12:40:34 -0800
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Following Error Joint 2


From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]

I'm going to guess that low-level I/O error is a general 
_Following_Error_Joint_2_?


No. It is a different error. I can't remember the exact wording but I
have seen it before.

The following error message is correct. With steppers you have two
acceleration settings. There is the joint acceleration which is used by
the trajectory planner and the stepgen acceleration. STEPGEN_MAXACCEL is
used to simulate the physical limits of the stepper and it's load. It's
a simulated equivalent to to a servo motor running out of torque. If the
trajectory planner commands a higher acceleration than STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
the stepgen will not be able to keep up and you get a following error in
exactly the same way you would on a servo system that ran out of torque.

Les
That doesn't explain why, if STEPGEN _MAXACCEL is set to 125% of 
MAX_ACCELERATION that the trajectory planner or Stepgen tries to use a number 
larger than that.


The trajectory planner has no notion of what the stepgen/physical hardware 
limits are, it just obeys is maxaccel constraints (with the one exception:

if you have backlash compensation enabled, the maximum acceleration during
backlash compensation can be double the joint constraints)

If you set the stepgen maxaccel to 125% of the joint constraint, and you have 
backlash compensation enabled, the stepgen constraint will likely cause a 
following error during backlash compensation moves because the stepgen

cannot follow the requested motion.




It's like saying I know you have a 1 gallon pail but because I have 1 gallon 
in my pail I'm going to pour it into yours.  Too bad it overflows when I pour 
two of my pails into one of yours.  You should have had a 2 gallon pail. What 
the heck is the point of a parameter like STEPGEN_MAXACCEL or MAX_ACCELRATION 
if it can be broken so easily.


Well you cannot ask for more than the physical hardware can produce so there 
need to be bounds. Stepgen Maxaccel is useful for a couple of reasons:


1. If the stepgen is used alone, it be used to bound acceleration
(say for step/dir controlled VFD spindle)
2. It can improve robustness with regard to host servo thread jitter
(that is, it can bound velocity corrections to a value the mechanics can follow)





Just confused here.
John





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Re: [Emc-users] Muxed encoder counters vs regular encoder counters

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2021 05:07:15 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Muxed encoder counters vs regular encoder counters

I am making a custom configuration to replace a Fagor 8050
cnc control with Linuxcnc and a Mesa 7i80hd or other triple
2x25 header interface.  I have four servo channels, and three
mpg wheels for jogging.  There only seems to be four regular
encoder channels, and beyond that muxed counters are required.
I don't see just how the muxed counters work, however.  Can
the two types be mixed?  I see in various PIN source files a
mux selection pin.  How is this used?  Here are the relevant
lines from the vhd file:

   IOPortTag & x"00" & MuxedQCountTag & MuxedQCountQAPin,  
-- I/O 24
   IOPortTag & x"00" & MuxedQCountTag & MuxedQCountQBPin,  
-- I/O 25
   IOPortTag & x"01" & MuxedQCountTag & MuxedQCountQAPin,  
-- I/O 26
   IOPortTag & x"01" & MuxedQCountTag & MuxedQCountQBPin,  
-- I/O 27
   IOPortTag & x"02" & MuxedQCountTag & MuxedQCountQAPin,  
-- I/O 28
   IOPortTag & x"02" & MuxedQCountTag & MuxedQCountQBPin,  
-- I/O 29
   IOPortTag & x"00" & MuxedQCountSelTag & MuxedQCountSel0Pin, 
-- I/O 30


Thanks again,
-- Ralph



You can have as many regular encoders as desired (until 64 or you run out of 
FPGA pins)


Muxed encoder save pins by multiplexing the even/odd A,B,Z signals on single 
pins, so a FPGA pin A0 caries the A signal for counter 0 when the muxed select 
pin is low and the A signal for counter 1 when the select pin is high. Typically 
the muxed select pin switches at 6 or 8 MHz so the encoder sample rate is 3 or 4 
MHz. Daughterboards with muxed encoders use the output enable lines of the 
RS-422 recievers to select whether the even or odd encoder input drives the 
FPGA.


Currently you cannot mix muxed and normal encoders in the same configuration (a 
driver limitation) but you can use all muxed encoders in a situation where you 
have muxed and non-muxed hardware (it just wastes encoders as you get an aliased 
encoder with duplicated data when a muxed encoder FPGA pin is used on non-muxed 
hardware)


For MPGs I would suggest using the inm module as this provides 4 MPG inputs
that have the 1x mode thats typically desired for MPGs to get one motion 
increment per MPG detent (this requires 2.8.1 or >)




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Re: [Emc-users] Muxed encoder counters vs regular encoder counters

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2021 18:40:45 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Muxed encoder counters vs regular encoder counters

Ok, I figured out my problem with the regular encoders.
I failed to see the fourth column in the ModuleID table is the
number of instances:

   (QcountTag, x"02",  ClockLowTag,x"07",  QcounterAddr&PadT,  
QCounterNumRegs,x"00",  QCounterMPBitMask),

works now.

I'm curious about the new 'inm' module though.  Is this
implemented purely in the hostmot2 driver source, rather
than in the fpga?  I find no mention of 'inm' in any vhdl source.
I would assume it just uses NullTag gpio pins then.

Thanks again,
-- Ralph



Its implemented in the FPGA (its a clone of InMux which has a identical 
register map but uses external multiplexing to support more inputs with limited 
daughterboard I/O pins) InM is not multiplexed and works with bare input pins


It adds hardware input debouncing and 4 MPGS per instance

A module instance looks like this


(InMTag,x"00", ClockLowTag, x"01", InMControlAddr&PadT, InMNumRegs,x"00", 
InMMPBitMask),


There is also a width tag in the module ID section (after a null module tag so 
the driver doesnt see it) This will likely dissapear later but is needed for 
compilation now:


(InMWidth0Tag, x"00", NullTag, x"00", NullAddr&PadT, x"00", x"00", x"000B")
(the 0x000B is the width)


And InM pins look like this:

IOPortTag & x"00" & InMTag & InMData0Pin, 
IOPortTag & x"00" & InMTag & InMData1Pin,

IOPortTag & x"00" & InMTag & InMData2Pin,

Note that currently the minimum number of InM pins per module is 8

Take a look at PIN_7I96_inmD_51.vhd



From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 6:24 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Muxed encoder counters vs regular encoder counters

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2021 05:07:15 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Muxed encoder counters vs regular encoder counters

I am making a custom configuration to replace a Fagor 8050
cnc control with Linuxcnc and a Mesa 7i80hd or other triple
2x25 header interface.  I have four servo channels, and three
mpg wheels for jogging.  There only seems to be four regular
encoder channels, and beyond that muxed counters are required.
I don't see just how the muxed counters work, however.  Can
the two types be mixed?  I see in various PIN source files a
mux selection pin.  How is this used?  Here are the relevant
lines from the vhd file:

   IOPortTag & x"00" & MuxedQCountTag & MuxedQCountQAPin,  
-- I/O 24
   IOPortTag & x"00" & MuxedQCountTag & MuxedQCountQBPin,  
-- I/O 25
   IOPortTag & x"01" & MuxedQCountTag & MuxedQCountQAPin,  
-- I/O 26
   IOPortTag & x"01" & MuxedQCountTag & MuxedQCountQBPin,  
-- I/O 27
   IOPortTag & x"02" & MuxedQCountTag & MuxedQCountQAPin,  
-- I/O 28
   IOPortTag & x"02" & MuxedQCountTag & MuxedQCountQBPin,  
-- I/O 29
   IOPortTag & x"00" & MuxedQCountSelTag & MuxedQCountSel0Pin, 
-- I/O 30


Thanks again,
-- Ralph



You can have as many regular encoders as desired (until 64 or you run out of
FPGA pins)

Muxed encoder save pins by multiplexing the even/odd A,B,Z signals on single
pins, so a FPGA pin A0 caries the A signal for counter 0 when the muxed select
pin is low and the A signal for counter 1 when the select pin is high. Typically
the muxed select pin switches at 6 or 8 MHz so the encoder sample rate is 3 or 4
MHz. Daughterboards with muxed encoders use the output enable lines of the
RS-422 recievers to select whether the even or odd encoder input drives the
FPGA.

Currently you cannot mix muxed and normal encoders in the same configuration (a
driver limitation) but you can use all muxed encoders in a situation where you
have muxed and non-muxed hardware (it just wastes encoders as you get an aliased
encoder with duplicated data when a muxed encoder FPGA pin is used on non-muxed
hardware)

For MPGs I would suggest using the inm module as this provides 4 MPG inputs
that have the 1x mode thats typically desired for MPGs to get one motion
increment per MPG detent (this requires 2.8.1 or >)

Re: [Emc-users] Spindle rps and index

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:


Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2021 19:07:50 +0100
From: Nicklas SB Karlsson 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle rps and index

Den 2021-03-19 kl. 10:53, skrev andy pugh:

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 at 01:46, John Dammeyer  wrote:

I take it then that you can't actually move the spindle to the index 

position unless you have some sort of control beyond velocity?

Velocity control + PID = position control.

Here is a schematic of a typical LinuxCNC spindle orient setup:
https://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/orient.svg
Yes schematic it is, once concluded .hal file is more or less a netlist 
and have been able to use gschem to draw schematics and generate .hal file.



Think it is similar or same as VMC_toolchange among the simulation 
machines in Linuxcnc. orient.N.position is a float  and it will work if 
it overflow each turn?


Otherwise then spindle rotate, position get larger, decimal point is 
moved and after slightly more than 77 hours at 3 600 rpm resolution is 
so bad it can't count a full turn. To get a resolution of 256 degrees 
per turn 8 bits are necessary and this point is passed already after 
slightly more than 18 minutes. Reason is for a float 24 bits are used 
for digits, the other eight bits are used for sign and placement of 
decimal point, there are also a few special cases like NaN/-Inf/Inf. 
Often used float for analog values, there it have been great since 
resolution have been known while scaling vary.



Nicklas Karlsson


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If spindle position is the same as other LinuxCNC axis, its a double precision
float so will take a _lot_ longer to lose precision.

That said, typical spindle orient routines use the index so the count gets reset
when orienting.


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain LS403 scale

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021, Feral Engineer wrote:


Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:34:05 -0400
From: Feral Engineer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Heidenhain LS403 scale

Does anyone have a working solution for using Heidenhain LS403 scales with
LinuxCNC? They're 2 phase sinusoidal feedback. Trying to connect to a mesa
7i95.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer


The common way would be to get a Heidenhain EXE box to do the interpolation



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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 4 Apr 2021, Feral Engineer wrote:


Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 10:04:29 -0400
From: Feral Engineer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

But home should be referenced from the switch and reset with the proxy as
the index pulse. I don't see this as normal behavior. Homing against the
switch then moving to some arbitrary position defeats the purpose of having
a homing sequence. If you watch my video, "zero" is purely dependent on
where the machine is when you start the software. All of my ini settings
are zero. Between the two reference returns I show in my video, nothing
changed but the position the machine was in when the software was started.
This behavior is not present when only using the mechanical switch.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer



I would expect this behaviour if you are using the stepgen feedback
since the stepgen feedback is not cleared by index




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On Sun, Apr 4, 2021, 4:45 AM Frank Tkalcevic 
wrote:


What I'm seeing (and I'm not a linuxcnc expert) looks correct.  After the
homing sequence it jumps to HOME.  This is documented here (0.1.3.7)
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_ini_homing.html




-Original Message-
From: Feral Engineer [mailto:theferalengin...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, 4 April 2021 1:58 PM
To: EMC developers; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

Finally getting back around to messing with this mechanical/prox home
issue. See attached video link. I show what it is doing and explain what I
want it to do.

Thanks in advance for your help

https://youtu.be/XVz6v2YNXJQ

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 4 Apr 2021, Feral Engineer wrote:


Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 11:04:10 -0400
From: Feral Engineer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

That's the thing, though. The behavior is completely arbitrary based on
where the machine is powered up.

When I use the mechanical switches, it'll find them, back away and zero is
right there. Works perfect.

As soon as I add the index pulse, it just takes off and goes back to where
it came from on startup. It makes no sense to me, especially since I
eliminated the prox sensors from being energized until after the mechanical
switches were triggered. It's gotta be pulling a value from somewhere. Even
the documentation doesn't talk about this weird behavior, considering
everything else is set to zero.


This is totally expected behavior, since LinuxCNC expects the feedback position 
to have been cleared on index, and it is not...


Normal homing to index sequence with encoder feedback is:

LinuxCNC (motion) searches for home switch
When home switch is detected, LinuxCNC asserts index enable
LinuxCNC moves while watching index enable
Encoder hardware/software detects index pulse and
 1. Clears index enable, informing linuxCNC that index has been detected
 2. Clears the position feedback count to 0
LinuxCNC detects that index enable has been cleared stops motion
and sets its commanded position to the feedback position when stopped



I'm on my way to go get the information Andy requested.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021, 10:51 AM Scott Harwell via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


 Phil,
I agree with you.

The one event that scared me the most was setting up a new AB 8400
retrofit. AB improved the "G" software to go to zero after home
(undocumented).The machine was a P&W Wolverine with three spindle heads X
120" Y 50" Z 24" and 40HP. The true thrill of Z axis trying to put the face
of the spindle flat on the table with a test bar in it will stop your
heart.Z home is near the top of Z stroke, and you define it as required. Do
not assume home is zero, it is a preset value from Zero, or it should
be.(Home is where the marker pulse is)
Scott H

On Sunday, April 4, 2021, 9:08:01 AM CDT, Feral Engineer <
theferalengin...@gmail.com> wrote:

 But home should be referenced from the switch and reset with the proxy as
the index pulse. I don't see this as normal behavior. Homing against the
switch then moving to some arbitrary position defeats the purpose of having
a homing sequence. If you watch my video, "zero" is purely dependent on
where the machine is when you start the software. All of my ini settings
are zero. Between the two reference returns I show in my video, nothing
changed but the position the machine was in when the software was started.
This behavior is not present when only using the mechanical switch.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021, 4:45 AM Frank Tkalcevic 
wrote:


What I'm seeing (and I'm not a linuxcnc expert) looks correct.  After the
homing sequence it jumps to HOME.  This is documented here (0.1.3.7)
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_ini_homing.html




-Original Message-
From: Feral Engineer [mailto:theferalengin...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, 4 April 2021 1:58 PM
To: EMC developers; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

Finally getting back around to messing with this mechanical/prox home
issue. See attached video link. I show what it is doing and explain what

I

want it to do.

Thanks in advance for your help

https://youtu.be/XVz6v2YNXJQ

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 4 Apr 2021, Feral Engineer wrote:


Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 11:23:32 -0400
From: Feral Engineer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

But that's how I have it set up. The prox is set as encoder index and it
finds it but after it finds it, it goes back to the position the machine
was at during startup. That's what I'm trying to fix. How do i fix this?


But you are not getting position feedback from the encoder so the
feedback position is not cleared. This means that linuxCNC will move
to a position determined by wherever the stepgen feedback happened
to be at index detection.




Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021, 11:20 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:


On Sun, 4 Apr 2021, Feral Engineer wrote:


Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 11:04:10 -0400
From: Feral Engineer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
is

right there. Works perfect.

As soon as I add the index pulse, it just takes off and goes back to

where

it came from on startup. It makes no sense to me, especially since I
eliminated the prox sensors from being energized until after the

mechanical

switches were triggered. It's gotta be pulling a value from somewhere.

Even

the documentation doesn't talk about this weird behavior, considering
everything else is set to zero.


This is totally expected behavior, since LinuxCNC expects the feedback
position
to have been cleared on index, and it is not...

Normal homing to index sequence with encoder feedback is:

LinuxCNC (motion) searches for home switch
When home switch is detected, LinuxCNC asserts index enable
LinuxCNC moves while watching index enable
Encoder hardware/software detects index pulse and
  1. Clears index enable, informing linuxCNC that index has been detected
  2. Clears the position feedback count to 0
LinuxCNC detects that index enable has been cleared stops motion
and sets its commanded position to the feedback position when stopped



I'm on my way to go get the information Andy requested.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021, 10:51 AM Scott Harwell via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


 Phil,
I agree with you.

The one event that scared me the most was setting up a new AB 8400
retrofit. AB improved the "G" software to go to zero after home
(undocumented).The machine was a P&W Wolverine with three spindle heads

X

120" Y 50" Z 24" and 40HP. The true thrill of Z axis trying to put the

face

of the spindle flat on the table with a test bar in it will stop your
heart.Z home is near the top of Z stroke, and you define it as

required. Do

not assume home is zero, it is a preset value from Zero, or it should
be.(Home is where the marker pulse is)
Scott H

On Sunday, April 4, 2021, 9:08:01 AM CDT, Feral Engineer <
theferalengin...@gmail.com> wrote:

 But home should be referenced from the switch and reset with the proxy

as

the index pulse. I don't see this as normal behavior. Homing against the
switch then moving to some arbitrary position defeats the purpose of

having

a homing sequence. If you watch my video, "zero" is purely dependent on
where the machine is when you start the software. All of my ini settings
are zero. Between the two reference returns I show in my video, nothing
changed but the position the machine was in when the software was

started.

This behavior is not present when only using the mechanical switch.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021, 4:45 AM Frank Tkalcevic <

fr...@franksworkshop.com.au>

wrote:


What I'm seeing (and I'm not a linuxcnc expert) looks correct.  After

the

homing sequence it jumps to HOME.  This is documented here (0.1.3.7)
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_ini_homing.html




-Original Message-
From: Feral Engineer [mailto:theferalengin...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, 4 April 2021 1:58 PM
To: EMC developers; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

Finally getting back around to messing with this mechanical/prox home
issue. See attached video link. I show what it is doing and explain

what

I

want it to do.

Thanks in advance for your help

https://youtu.be/XVz6v2YNXJQ

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 4 Apr 2021, Feral Engineer wrote:


Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 11:40:54 -0400
From: Feral Engineer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

What kind of voodoo do I use to have the index pulse of the prox reset the
encoder position? It finds the index signal from the prox, but doesn't
behave the way i think it should. If I don't have the prox index set up, it
just keeps drifting along because it doesn't find the index.



Its probably resetting the encoder position now but that's basically a no-op
since the encoder position is unused.




Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021, 11:37 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:


On Sun, 4 Apr 2021, Feral Engineer wrote:


Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 11:23:32 -0400
From: Feral Engineer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 

But you are not getting position feedback from the encoder so the
feedback position is not cleared. This means that linuxCNC will move
to a position determined by wherever the stepgen feedback happened
to be at index detection.




Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021, 11:20 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:


On Sun, 4 Apr 2021, Feral Engineer wrote:


Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 11:04:10 -0400
From: Feral Engineer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <

emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net


Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue

revisited


That's the thing, though. The behavior is completely arbitrary based on
where the machine is powered up.

When I use the mechanical switches, it'll find them, back away and zero

is

right there. Works perfect.

As soon as I add the index pulse, it just takes off and goes back to

where

it came from on startup. It makes no sense to me, especially since I
eliminated the prox sensors from being energized until after the

mechanical

switches were triggered. It's gotta be pulling a value from somewhere.

Even

the documentation doesn't talk about this weird behavior, considering
everything else is set to zero.


This is totally expected behavior, since LinuxCNC expects the feedback
position
to have been cleared on index, and it is not...

Normal homing to index sequence with encoder feedback is:

LinuxCNC (motion) searches for home switch
When home switch is detected, LinuxCNC asserts index enable
LinuxCNC moves while watching index enable
Encoder hardware/software detects index pulse and
  1. Clears index enable, informing linuxCNC that index has been

detected

  2. Clears the position feedback count to 0
LinuxCNC detects that index enable has been cleared stops motion
and sets its commanded position to the feedback position when stopped



I'm on my way to go get the information Andy requested.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021, 10:51 AM Scott Harwell via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


 Phil,
I agree with you.

The one event that scared me the most was setting up a new AB 8400
retrofit. AB improved the "G" software to go to zero after home
(undocumented).The machine was a P&W Wolverine with three spindle

heads

X

120" Y 50" Z 24" and 40HP. The true thrill of Z axis trying to put the

face

of the spindle flat on the table with a test bar in it will stop your
heart.Z home is near the top of Z stroke, and you define it as

required. Do

not assume home is zero, it is a preset value from Zero, or it should
be.(Home is where the marker pulse is)
Scott H

On Sunday, April 4, 2021, 9:08:01 AM CDT, Feral Engineer <
theferalengin...@gmail.com> wrote:

 But home should be referenced from the switch and reset with the

proxy

as

the index pulse. I don't see this as normal behavior. Homing against

the

switch then moving to some arbitrary position defeats the purpose of

having

a homing sequence. If you watch my video, "zero" is purely dependent

on

where the machine is when you start the software. All of my ini

settings

are zero. Between the two reference returns I show in my video,

nothing

changed but the position the machine was in when the software was

started.

This behavior is not present when only using the mechanical switch.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021, 4:45 AM Frank Tkalcevic <

fr...@franksworkshop.

Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 4 Apr 2021, Dewey Garrett wrote:


Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 15:36:30 - (UTC)
From: Dewey Garrett 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

The git *master* branch has an ini setting that may be relevant
for this use case:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/master/html/config/ini-config.html

"HOME_INDEX_NO_ENCODER_RESET = NO - Use YES if the encoder
used for this joint does not reset its counter when an
index pulse is detected after assertion of the joint
index_enable hal pin. Applicable only for HOME_USE_INDEX = YES."

Refs:

https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/5ea573adde

Also see forum thread starting here:
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration/31813-tcp-5-axis-kinematics?start=120#139881
--
Dewey Garrett



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Thats interesting. I guess that allows index detection if the pulse is too short
but may be off a few counts...

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 4 Apr 2021, Feral Engineer wrote:


Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 12:05:45 -0400
From: Feral Engineer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

I'll do some repeatability testing on Tuesday. Between Easter family
visits, work and band practice tomorrow night, I won't have a chance to get
back on the machine until then.

When I had the and2 gate connecting both switches last night as my last
ditch effort, it repeated perfectly over a dozen times.


Right and as Sam said, adding index to this really doesnt add anything but 
complexity if you can detect the index at linuxCNCs servo thread rate.


Where index can improve homing accuracy is when you have high resolution 
encoders (and you clear on index) so the actual high resolution count is 
captured in hardware without any servo thread sampling uncertainty


LinuxCNC master and Hostmot2 do support stepgen index with the right firmware
but this requires a high speed index input since the index input is a fully
hardware signal that captures the stepgen position.



Happy international carrot day, everybody! (Yes, it's really a thing)

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021, 11:59 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:


On Sun, 4 Apr 2021, Dewey Garrett wrote:


Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 15:36:30 - (UTC)
From: Dewey Garrett 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Home_use_index issue revisited

The git *master* branch has an ini setting that may be relevant
for this use case:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/master/html/config/ini-config.html

"HOME_INDEX_NO_ENCODER_RESET = NO - Use YES if the encoder
used for this joint does not reset its counter when an
index pulse is detected after assertion of the joint
index_enable hal pin. Applicable only for HOME_USE_INDEX = YES."

Refs:

https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/5ea573adde

Also see forum thread starting here:


https://forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration/31813-tcp-5-axis-kinematics?start=120#139881

--
Dewey Garrett



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Thats interesting. I guess that allows index detection if the pulse is too
short
but may be off a few counts...

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:34:30 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?


From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]


On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 17:40, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Your photo of the 7I80 is clearer than the one on the MESA site.  But I can't 
figure out what the difference is between the 7I80DB-16
and -25.  Which one do you have and why?

It's a "16" as it has a 16 k-gate Startan 6 FPGA. The "25" has 25 k-gates.

You can fit a bigger, more complicated, firmware on the 25k one. I am
not sure if any 7i80 firmwares need the 25kgates.

I have the one that I have because that's the one PCW gave me  as a
development sample ;-)

Ah!  Now that makes sense.  Possibly the larger could be used to allow a 
non-firmware reprogramming to allow step/dir _or_ pwm/dir on the same two pins. 
Right now my MESA 7I92H can't do that while an Ethernet Smooth Stepper with 
MACH can. 

But that's an apples and oranges comparison from what I understand because of 
what happens inside the FPGA on both. 


John


You could do this in hal either by using the stepgen as a PDM generator
(assuming the PWM is just filtered to obtain a analog voltage)
or disabling the stepgen and using software PWM (low PWM frequency only)

The issue is not FPGA resources, but rather the overall architecture differences

Besides you could simply re-write the firmware for each machine automatically
(it would take a while to wear out the 100K write cycle life flash chip even if 
done 10 times a day or so)





--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
?? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 11:32:12 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?



-----Original Message-
From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: April-09-21 10:59 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:34:30 -0700
From: John Dammeyer < <mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com> jo...@autoartisans.com>
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
< <mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" < 
<mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Small PC for use with 7i90 / 7i96?


From: andy pugh [ <mailto:bodge...@gmail.com> mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]


On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 17:40, John Dammeyer < <mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com> 
jo...@autoartisans.com> wrote:


Your photo of the 7I80 is clearer than the one on the MESA site.  But I can't 
figure out what the difference is between the 7I80DB-

16

and -25.  Which one do you have and why?

It's a "16" as it has a 16 k-gate Startan 6 FPGA. The "25" has 25 k-gates.

You can fit a bigger, more complicated, firmware on the 25k one. I am
not sure if any 7i80 firmwares need the 25kgates.

I have the one that I have because that's the one PCW gave me  as a
development sample ;-)

Ah!  Now that makes sense.  Possibly the larger could be used to allow a
non-firmware reprogramming to allow step/dir _or_ pwm/dir on the same two pins.
Right now my MESA 7I92H can't do that while an Ethernet Smooth Stepper with
MACH can.

But that's an apples and oranges comparison from what I understand because of
what happens inside the FPGA on both.

John


You could do this in hal either by using the stepgen as a PDM generator
(assuming the PWM is just filtered to obtain a analog voltage)
or disabling the stepgen and using software PWM (low PWM frequency only)

Thanks for the idea Peter,

In this case it's one of those really cheap 0-10V modules from China.  So IIRC, 
it's a 1kHz PWM.  I'm only able to get 240 Hz at the low end.

How do I set up a software PWM verses step/gen?  The adaptor board I built 
takes the same two pins and routes it out as step/gen and PWM into the little 
module.  The Bergerda Servo drive is where a parameter is selected for one or 
the other since I bring the analog and the step/gen into the drive.


You can look up the pwmgen manual page, Probably for a 1 KHz PWM filter and 
running the pwmgen at the 1 KHz serco thread I would use the software pwmgens 
PDM mode (so 50% is 1 ms on 1 ms off) This also depends on being able to
disable the stepgen so this will only work if the stepgen has a higher number 
than any needed stepgen.

(because you can enable stepgens 0..N not arbitrary stepgens)




DB-25 for step/dir/select/fault and a small green  2 pin connector for 0-10V 
from the module stacked on top.  The connection to the  Break Out Board is just 
those 4 pins.




John

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] ethernet card not loading

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 11 Apr 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 15:31:46 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] ethernet card not loading

hey everyone

I have a ethernet 7i82m card from mesa here and it was working 1 hr ago but
now is failing to load

I re ran Pncornf and changed a few things and now I get the following error
report

I am stuck anyone have any ideas?

hm2_eth: ERROR: 10.10.10.1: Could not retrieve mac address


10.10.10.1 is not a normal 7I92 address

(10.10.10.10 would be standard)

I would change the ip address in your hal or ini file


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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Re: [Emc-users] Motion information.

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 14 Apr 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 20:55:01 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Motion information.

I've returned to playing with the BeagleBone Black and Xylotex Cape to make it 
match the MESA 7i92 pins on the DB-25.  I've run into issues with naming of 
pins in the HAL file.

Is there something newer than this?
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html#MOTION%20PARAMETERS

The reason I ask is for both my LinuxCNC with MESA 7i92H and the MachineKit on 
the BBB pins like:
motion.spindle-speed-out-abs


Those are older spindle names



aren't documented in the above document.  But they are what I believe was 
created
What's in the document is
spindle.M.spindle-speed-out-abs(where M is 0..n)



This changed sometime in 2.8

So there's a disconnect from this manual compared to what is in both the 
MachineKit and LinuxCNC 2.8.  Both the PC and the Pi4 version.


The manual reflects the current release (2.8.1)



The PNCconf generated the initial hal file for me and the stepconf generated 
the parallel port version.  Maybe those programs haven't been updated for 
years and the new motion software still supports the 'old' way?


If you update to 2.8.1, both motion and pncconf use the new spindle names
(like spindle.M.spindle-speed-out-abs)



John Dammeyer





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Re: [Emc-users] wiring up mesa ency encoder

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 15 Apr 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 15:15:56 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] wiring up mesa ency encoder

Hey guys

looking for info on how to wire up a mesa ency encoder card to my vfd.

I have a encoder card that outputs 12v to the encoder that I have (which is
also a 12 v encoder)  but would like to split the encoder pulses off to my
7i77 as well as back to schiender altivar 71 vfd.

the vfd does output the encoder pulses but won't output the z pulse so I am
thinking of using the ENCY card to allow me to tap in to signals.

couple of questions

1 does the ency card handle 12v


No, the ENCY supports 5V single ended or differential signals



2 what is the best way to wire it up.  I have a standard quad encoder but
with push pull outputs

regards

Andrew

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Re: [Emc-users] Motion information.

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 14 Apr 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 22:27:08 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Motion information.


From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
On Wed, 14 Apr 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:

Is there something newer than this?
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html#MOTION%20PARAMETERS

The reason I ask is for both my LinuxCNC with MESA 7i92H and the MachineKit on 
the BBB pins like:
motion.spindle-speed-out-abs


Those are older spindle names



aren't documented in the above document.  But they are what I believe was 
created
What's in the document is
spindle.M.spindle-speed-out-abs(where M is 0..n)



This changed sometime in 2.8


So there's a disconnect from this manual compared to what is in both the
MachineKit and LinuxCNC 2.8.  Both the PC and the Pi4 version.


The manual reflects the current release (2.8.1)


The manual says absolutely nothing about which release it supports.  The 
implication is that if I changed from 2.8 to 2.8.1 I have to rewrite the HAL 
and INI files?  Is there a document that describes what needs to be changed?

Where is the manual for 2.8 then?  Say I don't want to update to 2.8.1 can I 

get a copy of the manual that uses the old naming?




The PNCconf generated the initial hal file for me and the stepconf generated
the parallel port version.  Maybe those programs haven't been updated for
years and the new motion software still supports the 'old' way?


If you update to 2.8.1, both motion and pncconf use the new spindle names
(like spindle.M.spindle-speed-out-abs)


So all the work put into a particular cudtom HAL and INI file combination is 
tossed out the door unless you remain totally stock and use pncconf to 
recreate the system?


No, the first time you run LinuxCNC 2.8.1 on a configuration with the 
older spindle names, The startup script will detect this and patch the names

in the hal and ini files.


The change was made to support multiple spindles




Does anyone know if the BeagleBone MachineKit has also been updated?



AFAIK Machinekit and LinuxCNC have diverged significantly so
Machinekit is closer to LinuxCNC 2.7 (pre Joints-Axis changes)
so unlikely to have multiple spindle support



Thanks
John






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Re: [Emc-users] 7i43 usage

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2021, dave engvall wrote:


Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 08:14:34 -0700
From: dave engvall 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] 7i43 usage

Hi all,
I'm trying to use a 7i43 I've had on the shelf for awhile.
200K version despite the error message. :-)

I've tried it on several motherboards and several paraport cards with 
pretty much the same result.

Hopefully someone can give me a hint of what is really wrong.

Below is the message I get:

LINUXCNC - 2.7.14
Machine configuration directory is 
'/home/dave/linuxcnc/configs/by_interface.mesa.hm2-servo'

Machine configuration file is '7i43-small.ini'
Starting LinuxCNC...
Found file(REL): ./hm2-servo.hal
Note: Using POSIX realtime
hm2: loading Mesa HostMot2 driver version 0.15
hm2_7i43: loading HostMot2 Mesa 7i43 driver version 0.3
hm2_7i43: failed to clear EPP Timeout!
hm2_7i43: /DONE is not low after CPLD reset!
hm2/hm2_7i43.0: board has FPGA '3s400tq144', but the firmware in 
hm2/7i43-2/SVST4_4.BIT is for FPGA '3s200tq144'
hm2_7i43.0: board at (ioaddr=0x0378, ioaddr_hi=0x, epp_wide ON) not 
found!

hm2_7i43: rtapi_app_main: Invalid argument (-22)
./hm2-servo.hal:43: waitpid failed /usr/bin/rtapi_app hm2_7i43
./hm2-servo.hal:43: /usr/bin/rtapi_app exited without becoming ready
./hm2-servo.hal:43: insmod for hm2_7i43 failed, returned -1
Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
hm2: unloading
Note: Using POSIX realtime

So  is there a cure or do I go find another approach?

TIA

Dave


What parallel port are you using?

Motherboard ports are much more likely to work than add-in cards
On add-in cards, you either need to figure out the cards base address
(it cannot be 0x378) or use 0 as the address (assuming Linux finds
the parallel port)




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Re: [Emc-users] 7i92 hardware question

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 18 Apr 2021, Karl Jacobs wrote:


Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 19:02:47 +0200
From: Karl Jacobs 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] 7i92 hardware question

Hi all,
sorry if this has been asked before: I am planning on using a Mesa 7i92M
board and connect it to an existing BOB that has 10kOhm pullup resistors
to 5V on its 74ACT14 inputs. I know about the 3.3V logic and the 5V
input option of the Mesa boards, but I could not find definite info
about the outputs. They seem to have an open drain mode, but can they
safely take the 5V pullups or do I have to get rid of them (or connect
them to 3.3V)?
Thanks,
Karl


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Pullups to 5V are fine when the 7I92 I/O is in 5V tolerance mode.
(in fact the 7I92s built in 4.7K pullups are connected to 5V in
5V tolerance mode)

The outputs will swing to 5V even in push-pull mode (but are only actively 
driven up to 3.3V, above that the pullups take over)



Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] wiring up mesa ency encoder

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 23 Apr 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 16:23:35 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] wiring up mesa ency encoder

update on encoder splitting to altivar vfd and mesa card


hey guys just a update and a few more questions

so I managed to get the encoder mounted on my spindle and working fine.
the vfd works in closed loop control now and I get quite nice power control
at almost zero rpm its great actually.

now I need to get that encoder output into my mesa card

the encoder I have can have any voltage from 5/25 and output equals input.

the vfd senses low state at under 1.5 and high state at over 7.7v


the vfd sends 12v out into encoder currently

so my plan is to just put a resistor in series on the 12 v out to encoder
to bring the power down to 10v or so.  then the mesa ency card will work I
think and I can split off the feedback to the mesa card and get the
orientation in linuxcnc working and rigid tapping.

so big question is what value of resistor do i need to bring the volts down
a bit.

regards

Andrew


Rather than a resistor, I would use a few diodes to drop the voltage
since the diode drop is mostly independent of current.

3 1N4001 diodes in series would drop the voltage to about 10V




On Sat, Apr 17, 2021 at 1:11 AM andrew beck 
wrote:


Question on that.

My vfd encoder card reads encoder pulses at above 7v and under 5v I think.

My encoder I bought from a company in China which made it for me.  It can
do 10k rpm.  And accepts 5-24v input.  Output just corresponds to whatever
the input value is.  So maybe one solution is drop the voltage down to 10v
from vfd and then that is a bit safer.

And I just read that my particular vfd encoder card doesn't output the
encoder  pulses.  So I definitely have to tee onto the line. I bought them
as they were the only ones cheap on ebay.  They rest were so expensive.  Or
unavailable

I'll post up the encoder card manual tomorrow.

First steps are to get the vfd working in closed loop vector control with
the encoder.  Then I can try getting the logic into Linuxcnc.  It's rough
but worst case I put two encoders onto the spindle lol..  I have several
laying around.  One is a nice 5v ttl one that is 5000 ppr.

On Fri, 16 Apr 2021, 7:41 PM andy pugh,  wrote:


On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 at 07:25, andrew beck 
wrote:

> if manual says I can run up to 13v do you think I will be fine?

I am not PCW, but I would be nervous about 12V with an absolute max of 12.
Maybe you can use one of the tiny buck-converters from eBay to supply
the encoder with 5V (or 8V) from the 12V?

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
?? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Analog servo system

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 25 Apr 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2021 17:43:12 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Analog servo system

Getting back to my Realmeca C2 mill retrofit now.
I'm giving up getting the Fagor 8050 control going,
so plan on retrofitting with LCNC.

I'd like to use ethernet to a NUC-type computer.
I'm looking at this chain of boards, but am not
sure about compatibility of some:

Mesa 7i94 eight-port smart serial to Ethernet
  ->  7i69   48 i/o sserial   -> 7i33 analog servo (have already)
  ->  7i84   32i/16o sserial
  ->  7i73   pendant sserial

My main concern is if the 7i33 will work with the
7i69, and if latency will become an issue with
everything running over sserial and ethernet.

The 7i94 is in stock at Mesanet, and the 7i69
and 7i73 are in stock at Mesaus.  Some other
approaches, like the 7i97, are not in stock.

Thanks,
-- Ralph




I have a 7I97 with one bad analog channel for free if you want it

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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Re: [Emc-users] Best Mesa Thermistor Reading Combo

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 29 Apr 2021, Curtis Dutton wrote:


Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 12:01:56 -0400
From: Curtis Dutton 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Best Mesa Thermistor Reading Combo

I'm upgrading the old spindle motor for my Fadal VMC 15 rebuild project. I
found a new old stock 11 KW 1RPM Fadal spindle motor that I'll be
installing in it's stead. A06B-1446-B100#0102.

It has an MZi encoder and a thermistor in the motor. I would like to
integrate temperature monitoring. I'm using all mesa hardware.

Does anyone have a good recommendation as to a nice clean "DIN" mountable
way to interface the thermistor to my control? The manual says 30 to 90
KOhm at 20 to 30 deg Celsiuis.

I don't know if they increase resistance with temp or decrease. Hopefully
someone out there has some fanuc motor experience.

Thanks,
 Curt




If its a normal NTC thermistor, its resistance will go down with increasing 
temperature. If you have 7I76,7I76E,7I77 or 7I84 in the system, you could read 
the thermistor by using one of the analog inputs:


+24V --> Thermistor.T1 --> Thermistor.T2 --> 7IXX analog input

The resistance vs temperature is quite nonlinear so you would probably need to
feed the analog value to lincurve to linearize the temperature readout






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Re: [Emc-users] homing off glass scale

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sat, 22 May 2021, dave engvall wrote:


Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 17:12:35 -0700
From: dave engvall 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] homing off glass scale

Talk about having a bad day. Sure glad the extras were just a recipe and 
not something private. :-)


Dave


I was having more than a bit of trouble figuring out the relevance

Precision food machining?

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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Re: [Emc-users] How to change step pulse width for stepper driver

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 2 Jun 2021, Fox Mulder wrote:


Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 20:06:05 +0200
From: Fox Mulder 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] How to change step pulse width for stepper driver

So i tried setting stepspace = 1 but no change. Then i tried setting
both steplen and stepspace to 1 and also no change. It seems as if
LinuxCNC ignores my values.

When i open HAL Meter and show the current value it shows me 75000 for
both of them. But this would mean 75s pulse width which i don't have.
It is still around 2,3s.

I attached my old confiurations and maybe someone can see what the
problem is. I don't know if i have to change something else for the
current version of LinuxCNC. I only know that the configs worked back
then when i last used them 15 years ago. :)

Ciao,
Rainer




"setp parport.0.reset-time 5000"

is what is setting the step pulse length

When you use reset mode its normal to set steplength and stepspace to 1


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] Multiple 7i90 cards on Rpi 4b

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 14:58:24 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Multiple 7i90 cards on Rpi 4b

The man page for hm2_rpspi indicates that multiple SPI
cards may be connected to a single pi4, using the spi_probe
parameter to which SPI port and chip enable line should
be used for each card.  Has this been found to work well?
I have an application that needs two 7i90hd's, and I will
be making a small pcb to connect the 7i90hd's and the 4b.
My single 7i90/4b card is working fine.

Thanks,
-- Ralph

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I have not tried it. Cabling and signal integrity might be an issue.

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] Multiple 7i90 cards on Rpi 4b

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 19:22:20 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Multiple 7i90 cards on Rpi 4b

I'm not too worried about signal integrity issues, as
I am using a four layer board and the traces are similar
length for the original 2x13 connector and the second
one.  I'm more worried about whether the Rpi 4B can
handle double the traffic, and not sure whether it is
better to use SPI0/CE0 and CE1, or SPI0 and SPI1/CE0.
Also whether the multiple board functionality of hm2_rpspi
has even been tested.

I guess the board won't cost much from JLC, if I combine
the order with another board I need.

-- Ralph



You are very likely the first person to try this...
the SPI0+CE0 and CE1 seems simpler but I dont know
what hm2_rpspi has implemented.


________
From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2021 11:56 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Multiple 7i90 cards on Rpi 4b

On Thu, 10 Jun 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 14:58:24 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Multiple 7i90 cards on Rpi 4b

The man page for hm2_rpspi indicates that multiple SPI
cards may be connected to a single pi4, using the spi_probe
parameter to which SPI port and chip enable line should
be used for each card.  Has this been found to work well?
I have an application that needs two 7i90hd's, and I will
be making a small pcb to connect the 7i90hd's and the 4b.
My single 7i90/4b card is working fine.

Thanks,
-- Ralph



I have not tried it. Cabling and signal integrity might be an issue.

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] Pi4 issues with MESA 7i92H

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 21:25:35 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Pi4 issues with MESA 7i92H

BTW, used the same process for the BBB to install mesaflash.

Attached file shows the result.  Works like a charm so the issue isn't the 
mesaflash program and ARM libraries nor PC running LinuxCNC.  The issue is 
probably with the Pi4 libaries used by the mesaflash.


John



I would think its more likely a host network setup issue. I'll try mesaflash on 
a RPI4 with a Ethernet card tommorow but I do know mesaflash works properly on 
SPI connected FPGAs card on the RPI4. (and linuxCNC runs fine with Mesa Ethernet 
cards on the RPI4)





-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
Sent: June-10-21 8:02 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: [Emc-users] Pi4 issues with MESA 7i92H

Peter Wallace and I have been working on getting the Pi4 to work with the 7i92 
mesaflash program.

He asked me to do this but I get the error below.
pi@linuxcnc:~/mesaflash $ sudo ./mesaflash --device 7i92 --readhmid
lbp16_access.send_packet: Resource temporarily unavailable
Aborted

When I do this on the PC with the same 7i92 it dumps the Pins table.  The 7i92 
is communicating with the board.  It can ping it.  It can
detect what type of board it is.  But the --readhmid parameter always returns 
this access.send_packet error.

Any ideas on how to solve this problem?  It appears to be some sort of network 
issue.  The Pi4 has successfully run my CNC
hardware through the 7i92 so Ethernet works.  At least from LinuxCNC to the Pi. 
  Clearly not from the mesaflash to the pi.

To get mesaflash onto the Pi4 you have to do the following.
pi@linuxcnc:~ $ sudo git clone http://github.com/linuxcnc/mesaflash
pi@linuxcnc:~/mesaflash $ sudo apt-get install libpci-dev
pi@linuxcnc:~/mesaflash $ sudo make

Once that's all done:
pi@linuxcnc:~/mesaflash $ ./mesaflash
Mesaflash version 3.4.0~pre1
Configuration and diagnostic tool for Mesa Electronics PCI(E)/ETH/EPP/USB/SPI 
boards
Try 'mesaflash --help' for more information
pi@linuxcnc:~/mesaflash $ sudo ./mesaflash --device 7i92 --addr 192.168.1.121
ETH device 7I92 at ip=192.168.1.121

Any suggestions are welcome.
Thanks
John Dammeyer


"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
Automation Artisans Inc.
www dot autoartisans dot com


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Re: [Emc-users] Pi4 issues with MESA 7i92H

[Peter C. Wallace]

I dont see this issue (though if have my 7I92 at 10.10.10.10 and the RPI at 
10.10.10.100)


pi@raspberrypi:/boot $ uname -a
Linux raspberrypi 4.19.71-rt24-v7l+ #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Thu Jan 23 16:59:28 PST 
2020 armv7l GNU/Linux
pi@raspberrypi:/boot $ mesaflash --device 7i92 --addr 10.10.10.10 --readhmid
Configuration Name: HOSTMOT2

General configuration information:

  BoardName : MESA7I92
  FPGA Size: 9 KGates
  FPGA Pins: 144
  Number of IO Ports: 2
  Width of one I/O port: 17
  Clock Low frequency: 100. MHz
  Clock High frequency: 200. MHz
  IDROM Type: 3
  Instance Stride 0: 4
  Instance Stride 1: 64
  Register Stride 0: 256
  Register Stride 1: 256

Modules in configuration:

  Module: DPLL
  There are 1 of DPLL in configuration
  Version: 0
  Registers: 7
  BaseAddress: 7000
  ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
  Register Stride: 256 bytes
  Instance Stride: 4 bytes

  Module: WatchDog
  There are 1 of WatchDog in configuration
  Version: 0
  Registers: 3
  BaseAddress: 0C00
  ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
  Register Stride: 256 bytes
  Instance Stride: 4 bytes

  Module: IOPort
  There are 2 of IOPort in configuration
  Version: 0
  Registers: 5
  BaseAddress: 1000
  ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
  Register Stride: 256 bytes
  Instance Stride: 4 bytes

  Module: QCount
  There are 1 of QCount in configuration
  Version: 2
  Registers: 5
  BaseAddress: 3000
  ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
  Register Stride: 256 bytes
  Instance Stride: 4 bytes

  Module: SSerial
  There are 1 of SSerial in configuration
  Version: 0
  Registers: 6
  BaseAddress: 5B00
  ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
  Register Stride: 256 bytes
  Instance Stride: 64 bytes

  Module: StepGen
  There are 5 of StepGen in configuration
  Version: 2
  Registers: 10
  BaseAddress: 2000
  ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
  Register Stride: 256 bytes
  Instance Stride: 4 bytes

  Module: LED
  There are 1 of LED in configuration
  Version: 0
  Registers: 1
  BaseAddress: 0200
  ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
  Register Stride: 256 bytes
  Instance Stride: 4 bytes

Configuration pin-out:

IO Connections for P2
Pin#  I/O   Pri. funcSec. func   Chan  Pin funcPin Dir

 1  0   IOPort   StepGen  0Dir/Table2  (Out)
14  1   IOPort   StepGen  0Step/Table1 (Out)
 2  2   IOPort   StepGen  1Dir/Table2  (Out)
15  3   IOPort   StepGen  1Step/Table1 (Out)
 3  4   IOPort   StepGen  2Dir/Table2  (Out)
16  5   IOPort   StepGen  2Step/Table1 (Out)
 4  6   IOPort   StepGen  3Dir/Table2  (Out)
17  7   IOPort   StepGen  3Step/Table1 (Out)
 5  8   IOPort   StepGen  4Dir/Table2  (Out)
 6  9   IOPort   StepGen  4Step/Table1 (Out)
 7 10   IOPort   SSerial  0TXData0 (Out)
 8 11   IOPort   SSerial  0RXData0 (In)
 9 12   IOPort   SSerial  0TXData1 (Out)
10 13   IOPort   SSerial  0RXData1 (In)
11 14   IOPort   QCount   0Quad-IDX(In)
12 15   IOPort   QCount   0Quad-B  (In)
13 16   IOPort   QCount   0Quad-A  (In)

IO Connections for P1
Pin#  I/O   Pri. funcSec. func   Chan  Pin funcPin Dir

 1 17   IOPort   None 
14 18   IOPort   None
 2 19   IOPort   None 
15 20   IOPort   None
 3 21   IOPort   None 
16 22   IOPort   None
 4 23   IOPort   None 
17 24   IOPort   None

 5 25   IOPort   None
 6 26   IOPort   None
 7 27   IOPort   None
 8 28   IOPort   None
 9 29   IOPort   None 
10 30   IOPort   None 
11 31   IOPort   None 
12 32   IOPort   None 
13 33   IOPort   None


pi@raspberrypi:/boot $

Peter Wallace
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Re: [Emc-users] Pi4 issues with MESA 7i92H

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 13:44:51 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Pi4 issues with MESA 7i92H

Try to set the jumpers for 192.168.1.121 and your pi4 at 192.168.1.1 or .10...

Something in the mesaflash is having issues that LinuxCNC isn't.  At this 
point no idea what it is and whether WiFi is on or off doesn't seem to matter.


John



LinuxCNC does some network modifications that mesaflash does not
so this still suggests  some kind of network setup issue on your RPI

Did you try setting the host address to 10.10.10.100 and the 7I92 to 10.10.10.10
This is less likely to have routing issues (and is suggested in general to 
avoid overlaps with common NAT ranges)










-----Original Message-
From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: June-11-21 11:04 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Pi4 issues with MESA 7i92H


I dont see this issue (though if have my 7I92 at 10.10.10.10 and the RPI at
10.10.10.100)

pi@raspberrypi:/boot $ uname -a
Linux raspberrypi 4.19.71-rt24-v7l+ #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Thu Jan 23 16:59:28 PST 
2020 armv7l GNU/Linux
pi@raspberrypi:/boot $ mesaflash --device 7i92 --addr 10.10.10.10 --readhmid
Configuration Name: HOSTMOT2

General configuration information:

   BoardName : MESA7I92
   FPGA Size: 9 KGates
   FPGA Pins: 144
   Number of IO Ports: 2
   Width of one I/O port: 17
   Clock Low frequency: 100. MHz
   Clock High frequency: 200. MHz
   IDROM Type: 3
   Instance Stride 0: 4
   Instance Stride 1: 64
   Register Stride 0: 256
   Register Stride 1: 256

Modules in configuration:

   Module: DPLL
   There are 1 of DPLL in configuration
   Version: 0
   Registers: 7
   BaseAddress: 7000
   ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
   Register Stride: 256 bytes
   Instance Stride: 4 bytes

   Module: WatchDog
   There are 1 of WatchDog in configuration
   Version: 0
   Registers: 3
   BaseAddress: 0C00
   ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
   Register Stride: 256 bytes
   Instance Stride: 4 bytes

   Module: IOPort
   There are 2 of IOPort in configuration
   Version: 0
   Registers: 5
   BaseAddress: 1000
   ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
   Register Stride: 256 bytes
   Instance Stride: 4 bytes

   Module: QCount
   There are 1 of QCount in configuration
   Version: 2
   Registers: 5
   BaseAddress: 3000
   ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
   Register Stride: 256 bytes
   Instance Stride: 4 bytes

   Module: SSerial
   There are 1 of SSerial in configuration
   Version: 0
   Registers: 6
   BaseAddress: 5B00
   ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
   Register Stride: 256 bytes
   Instance Stride: 64 bytes

   Module: StepGen
   There are 5 of StepGen in configuration
   Version: 2
   Registers: 10
   BaseAddress: 2000
   ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
   Register Stride: 256 bytes
   Instance Stride: 4 bytes

   Module: LED
   There are 1 of LED in configuration
   Version: 0
   Registers: 1
   BaseAddress: 0200
   ClockFrequency: 100.000 MHz
   Register Stride: 256 bytes
   Instance Stride: 4 bytes

Configuration pin-out:

IO Connections for P2
Pin#  I/O   Pri. funcSec. func   Chan  Pin funcPin Dir

  1  0   IOPort   StepGen  0Dir/Table2  (Out)
14  1   IOPort   StepGen  0Step/Table1 (Out)
  2  2   IOPort   StepGen  1Dir/Table2  (Out)
15  3   IOPort   StepGen  1Step/Table1 (Out)
  3  4   IOPort   StepGen  2Dir/Table2  (Out)
16  5   IOPort   StepGen  2Step/Table1 (Out)
  4  6   IOPort   StepGen  3Dir/Table2  (Out)
17  7   IOPort   StepGen  3Step/Table1 (Out)
  5  8   IOPort   StepGen  4Dir/Table2  (Out)
  6  9   IOPort   StepGen  4Step/Table1 (Out)
  7 10   IOPort   SSerial  0TXData0 (Out)
  8 11   IOPort   SSerial  0RXData0 (In)
  9 12   IOPort   SSerial  0TXData1 (Out)
10 13   IOPort   SSerial  0RXData1 (In)
11 14   IOPort   QCount   0Quad-IDX(In)
12 15   IOPort   QCount   0Quad-B  (In)
13 16   IOPort   QCount   0Quad-A  (In)

IO Connections for P1
Pin#  I/O   Pri. funcSec. func   Chan  Pin funcPin Dir

  1 17   IOPort   None
14 18   IOPort   None
  2 19   IOPort   None
15 20   IOPort   None
  3 21   IOPort   None
16 22   IOPort   None
  4 23   IOPort   None
17 24   IOPort   None
  5 25   IOPort   None
  6 26   IOPort   None
  7 27   IOPort   None
  8 28

Re: [Emc-users] Pi4 issues with MESA 7i92H

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 17:05:53 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Pi4 issues with MESA 7i92H


From: Ralph Stirling [mailto:ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu]
I don't think this is his problem, since his rpi Linuxcnc talks to the 7i92 
just fine. Only mesaflash is having trouble.

Is there any difference between a 7i92 and a 7i92h?  I have a straight 7i92 
with one 2x13 and one db25.
Have you tried explicitly specifying --addr 192 168.1.121?

-- Ralph



There is no electrical difference.  Just one DB connector and one header for 
the non H variety.  It turns out setting the address as --addr 192.168.1.121 
or if the W5 and W6 are changed to reflect EEROM IP address of default 
10.10.10.10 then all commands must have --addr 10.10.10.10.


Reading the manual again it appears that --addr is only needed if the default 
192.168.1.121 is not in use on the 7i92.  That's incorrect with a Pi4.  It's 
correct with a PC and a Beaglebone.


Looking at the code, thats pretty strange. The address default is just 
"192.168.1.121" Have you tried without the "sudo"? That's not needed

for Ethernet connected cards



John




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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Tue, 15 Jun 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 16:14:00 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

Kind of cool to do an M3 S10 and see the what would be the spindle turning at 
10 RPM with STEP/DIR control.  (all on my test bench with a smaller motor at 
the moment and Pi4/7i92H instead of PC/7i92H.


Been working on that all afternoon.  Moved controllers around.  Moved motors. 
Nothing.  And yet the motor worked fine on the machine and under the Pi4 and 
7i92 also ran correctly with PWM/DIR.  But not STEP/DIR.  Didn't seem to 
matter what parameters I changed in the servo motor.  I'd switch back and 
forth between the two different .BIT files in the 7i92H.


I took a step backward and started cloning the Z axis parameters into the 
spindle parameter in the INI file.  The P parameter was 0.0 Once I set it to 
1000.0 spindle stepping worked.  Which makes sense.  No Proportional Gain, no 
velocity.


MAX_VELOCITY = 50.0
MAX_ACCELERATION = 300.0
P = 1000.0
I = 0.0
D = 0.0
FF0 = 1.0
FF1 = 0.0
FF2 = 0.0
BIAS = 0.0
DEADBAND = 0.0
MAX_OUTPUT = 3000.0

So when controlling an intelligent AC Servo Drive what is an ideal value for 
P?  It's open loop at the moment, until I add an encoder to the spindle. 
Anything else required to make open loop reliable?  Once there's an encoder on 
the spindle how much tuning is needed given that it's step/dir and not PWM 
with encoder feedback?


Thanks
John



If you are outputing a velocity command (either a stepgen rate or a PWM 
value), P=0 should be fine, because FF0=1 meaning the PID output that drives the 
stepgen or PWMgen will equal the input command. Basically the PID compoment is 
just passing the commanded spindle RPM to its output so when P=0 (and I=0) you 
are running open loop, but it should work in this configuration. If you are 
using a stepgen, there should be no need for P (or PID) at all, since the stegen 
rate accuracy will be better than .01% or so.







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Re: [Emc-users] Setting of maximum velocity and acceleration in ini file

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 16 Jun 2021, suraj kumar wrote:


Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 18:04:28 +0530
From: suraj kumar 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] Setting of maximum velocity and acceleration in ini file

Dear Forum,

I see, I have to set the maximum velocity and acceleration in ini file at
more than one place, like in [DISPLAY], [TRAJ], [AXIS_X], [JOINT_0]. I can
also see in [JOINT_0], I need to set two times, one for Max velocity and
acceleration and another for STEPGEN MAXVEL and MAXACCEL (25% larger than
MAX_VELOCITY and MAX_ACCELERATION).

I don't have an idea what to set here. I keep it default like MAX_VELOCITY
= 25 and MAX_ACCELERATION = 750 and follow the guidelines for 25%
increament for stepgen velocity and acceleration.



It depends entirely on the drives/motors/system inertia. What drives and motors 
are you using and what are you driving?




Some time I get error of max vel clipping/touching when I change the
parameters of STEPSPACE, STEPLEN, STEP_SCALE, etc. And I really don't know
how do they calculate. I decrease some value and get ok. My driver supplier
don't tell me the value settings for STEPLEN, STEPSPACE, DIRSETUP, and
DIRHOLD. And I need help to set them properly.


You get that error because its impossible to reach the velocity limits
with the steplen, stepspace, step_scale settings you have, that is the maximum 
velocity of a step/dir system is bound by the pulse timings: maximum velocity = 
1/((steplen+stepspace)*stepscale).


Unless you know the timings, good working numbers are 5000,5000,2,2 
(steplen,stepspace,dirsetup,dirhold) This will allow steprates up to 100 KHz
also dirsetup and dirhold are not critical to performance so it OK to set these 
to large numbers.




Servo period is the heart beat of computer, I need help to set the value
for that after doing latency test. Currently, I have set only SERVO_PERIOD
= 100 in [EMCMOT] section, no other period setting is there. I just
kept the default.


Usually the is no reason to change this



Please explain the importance of above parameters settings.


I am facing following error problem, my CNC stage is not moving at
commanded high velocity due to these limitations.



If you get following errors, its usually because you are asking the stepgen to
do something it cannot do (stepgen maxaccel or stepgen maxvel bounding the 
actual motion because they did not have 25% headroom)





Thanks & Regards
Suraj Kumar.

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Re: [Emc-users] Setting of maximum velocity and acceleration in ini file

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 17 Jun 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 09:17:51 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Setting of maximum velocity and acceleration in ini
file


From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 at 13:37, suraj kumar  wrote:


I see, I have to set the maximum velocity and acceleration in ini file at
more than one place, like in [DISPLAY], [TRAJ], [AXIS_X], [JOINT_0]. I can
also see in [JOINT_0], I need to set two times, one for Max velocity and
acceleration and another for STEPGEN MAXVEL and MAXACCEL (25% larger than
MAX_VELOCITY and MAX_ACCELERATION).


They all do slightly different things.

Starting with the stepgens: The stepgen modules (both software and
fpga versions) have internal limits on velocity and acceleration. You
can set these to zero and no limits are applied.
The reason for this is so that it is possible to connect a stepgen to
a stepper motor and pass position/velocity commands _without_ passing
the command through a trajectory planner. A GUI, for example, can pass
a new position to the stepgen position command and
the internal limits will mean that the motor will accelerate smoothly
to position and stop.
If a system is configured with backlash compensation then the stepgen
limits need to exist too.

Then there are the joint and axis limits. These are often exactly the
same with a cartesian machine, but are not the same thing when the
kinematics is more complicated.

The [DISPLAY] section sets how high the sliders are allowed to go that
set the velocities. You might want to have these different to the
actual machine hardware limits.

And the [TRAJ] limits are the limits foro tool-point velocity in
multi-axis motion, which can be significantly higher than for a single
axis.

--
atp


I have a follow up question to Andy's answer.  I recall Peter Wallace (I think 
it was Peter) mentioning that the PID wasn't needed for stepper drives but 
would be needed for a PWM driven spindle with encoder feedback.  So for stepper 
motor or servo drives driven with their own closed loop controller these aren't 
needed?

addf pid.x.do-pid-calcs   servo-thread
addf pid.y.do-pid-calcs   servo-thread
addf pid.z.do-pid-calcs   servo-thread
addf pid.a.do-pid-calcs   servo-thread

And therefore lines like this can also be removed?



For a spindle speed controller in open loop velocity mode
there is no need for PID since you just set the stepgen rate
to the commanded spindle speed. For position mode step/dir
its a bit more complicated. You can run these with the
built-in position mode in the stepgen driver, but using a hal PID
loop provides better robustness WRT servo thread jitter, missed
cycles etc. Ideally the built-in stepgen position mode should
be implemented with a (hidden) PID for hal simplicity, but this
is a fair sized project.





#***
#  AXIS X
#***
setp   pid.x.Pgain [JOINT_0]P
setp   pid.x.Igain [JOINT_0]I
setp   pid.x.Dgain [JOINT_0]D
setp   pid.x.bias  [JOINT_0]BIAS
setp   pid.x.FF0   [JOINT_0]FF0
setp   pid.x.FF1   [JOINT_0]FF1
setp   pid.x.FF2   [JOINT_0]FF2
setp   pid.x.deadband  [JOINT_0]DEADBAND
setp   pid.x.maxoutput [JOINT_0]MAX_OUTPUT
setp   pid.x.error-previous-target true

net x-index-enable  <=> pid.x.index-enable
net x-enable=>  pid.x.enable
net x-pos-cmd   =>  pid.x.command
net x-pos-fb=>  pid.x.feedback
net x-output=>  pid.x.output

Especially since the pid.x.___ aren't used anywhere else?

Have I got it right?
Thanks
Joihn




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Re: [Emc-users] About the 7i76E and possible DB25 expansion cards

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 20 Jun 2021, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:


Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2021 23:24:05 -0300
From: Leonardo Marsaglia 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] About the 7i76E and possible DB25 expansion cards

Hello to all,

I'm deciding which hardware I'm about to use with the CNC router. I'm
mostly inclined to the 7i76E because it has all that I need to drive the
router in one compact board.

I think this board covers anything I'm thinking of at the moment but just
in case I need I/O expansion in the future I would like to ask: Is the 7i75
breakout board the way to add more I/Os to the 7i76E? And in that case I
suppose the direction of the I/O pins in determined in HAL at the startup
right?


You could use a 7I75 to add more protected TTL level I/O. You can also
use 1 or 2 standard parallel port type breakouts for more I/O. There are also
daughtercards for specific I/O like additional encoders or step/dir outputs.
Another option would be using the serial expansion port. One 7I84 added to the 
7I76E's serial expansion port doubles the amount of 12/24V I/O by adding an 
additional 32 inputs and 16 outputs.





Just curious about this because I'm always using new hardware on every
machine :).

Thanks as always for your help!

Leonardo

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Re: [Emc-users] About the 7i76E and possible DB25 expansion cards

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Gene Heskett wrote:


Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 12:51:03 -0400
From: Gene Heskett 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] About the 7i76E and possible DB25 expansion cards

On Saturday 26 June 2021 12:17:15 Feral Engineer wrote:


Hey John,

I guess i should've explained better, I was half awake when I asked
that. I'm running dmm servos on my mill, which are currently driven on
a 7i76e with step/dir and are only semi closed loop (closed loop from
the motor to the drive, but not to LinuxCNC). I'm Curious if it's
possible to use the external encoder feedback from the dyn4 to
LinuxCNC to create a full closed loop arrangement using that encoder
and step/dir or do the servos have to be controlled via analog signal
and pid tuning to get the encoder feedback to be closed loop?

Also, I'm looking for the secret sauce to get full closed loop from my
vfd to LinuxCNC if anyone has pointers on that. I have encoder
feedback to LinuxCNC, but i feel like I'm missing a key element to get
the pid working properly. Most of the adjustments I've made to pid
never result in LinuxCNC compensating for the error (i.e. G97 S200 =
S210 actual with p =0, changing P results in a runaway in most cases).
I'm wondering what the magic net command might be to get everything
working so I could thread on my lathe.



Phil T.
The Feral Engineer


Exchange the A & B signals from the encoder to LCNC, either in the .hal
file, or physically, it sounds as if the LCNC PID thinks its running
backwards. Check for sure by watching the encoder output with a
halmeter, it should be counting up when the motor is turning fwd, and
vice-versa.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Genes Web page 


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Also the hal connections or encoder scaling of the PID feedback signal may be 
wrong. Check the PID feedback value, it should be close to the commanded value.



Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Tue, 6 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 18:35:26 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for
configs to study

hey everyone.

i have been messing around all day with my cnc mill trying to get spindle
orientation working so that I can get my toolchanger working



I found a video on youtube from Tallas83 that showed what  I want to do but
he used a 5i20 card and 7i33 and I am having trouble converting it to a
standard 7i77 mesa card set up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoXoOYSFY2Q


I got it to load the new config eventually had to change all the motion
pins to spindle.0 stuff but still getting a bit stuck when I issue a m19 r0
command the spindle locks but doesn't rotate.  and I can see on my vfd that
the frequency reference is not getting through even though in the hal
configuration the hm2 analog 05 output is showing a value.  If I switch
back to my old config it fires right up so hardware is fine.




Is hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena true?
(analog out 5 has a separate enable)




does anyone out there have this working that can help.  I don't need too
much hand holding I think and I have played with linuxcnc for several years
now.  just getting stuck up against a wall.

regards

Andrew

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Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 20:47:35 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for
configs to study

peter you found it lol!

I have the spindle turned on by a standard output from the 7i77 card anyway
so didn't check that the spindle enable signal was turning on the
hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena pin

i just went through it again and double checked stuff and netted the
spinena pin also and it works.  I didn't realise that the analog out value
only works if the spinena is on.  but I know now

so next issue is I have a 5v pnp prox that I want to put on the spindle for
a index sensor as my motor/gearbox ratio is not 1-1.

PCW can I use a 5v pnp sensor straight into the 7i77 encoder input same as
I would do with the field io?



The encoder inputs have a 2K pullup resistor to 5V so you would need a 
relatively stiff pull down resistor on the output of the PNP sensor for that to 
work (say 270 ohm)




ps john.  I will add post up my config once I have it working real nice for
everyone to copy.  anyone that has a 7i77 card should be able to just plug
in and get spindle orientation so long as they have a suitable vfd


regards

Andrew

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On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 3:38 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:


On Tue, 6 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 18:35:26 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
but

he used a 5i20 card and 7i33 and I am having trouble converting it to a
standard 7i77 mesa card set up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoXoOYSFY2Q


I got it to load the new config eventually had to change all the motion
pins to spindle.0 stuff but still getting a bit stuck when I issue a m19

r0

command the spindle locks but doesn't rotate.  and I can see on my vfd

that

the frequency reference is not getting through even though in the hal
configuration the hm2 analog 05 output is showing a value.  If I switch
back to my old config it fires right up so hardware is fine.




Is hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena true?
(analog out 5 has a separate enable)




does anyone out there have this working that can help.  I don't need too
much hand holding I think and I have played with linuxcnc for several

years

now.  just getting stuck up against a wall.

regards

Andrew

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Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 01:34:02 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for
configs to study

Also when you say Pull down resistor can I just solder that between the pnp
prox output wire and the encoder input?



This would be a resistor between the prox output and ground



On Thu, Jul 8, 2021, 1:27 AM andrew beck  wrote:


Looks like I bought the wrong type of switch then lol.

Do you think I'll lose accuracy with a resistor?


Remember this is my index pulse for spindle..



On Thu, Jul 8, 2021, 1:15 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:


On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 20:47:35 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <

emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>

Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card

looking for

configs to study

peter you found it lol!

I have the spindle turned on by a standard output from the 7i77 card

anyway

so didn't check that the spindle enable signal was turning on the
hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena pin

i just went through it again and double checked stuff and netted the
spinena pin also and it works.  I didn't realise that the analog out

value

only works if the spinena is on.  but I know now

so next issue is I have a 5v pnp prox that I want to put on the spindle

for

a index sensor as my motor/gearbox ratio is not 1-1.

PCW can I use a 5v pnp sensor straight into the 7i77 encoder input same

as

I would do with the field io?



The encoder inputs have a 2K pullup resistor to 5V so you would need a
relatively stiff pull down resistor on the output of the PNP sensor for
that to
work (say 270 ohm)



ps john.  I will add post up my config once I have it working real nice

for

everyone to copy.  anyone that has a 7i77 card should be able to just

plug

in and get spindle orientation so long as they have a suitable vfd


regards

Andrew

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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 3:38 AM Peter C. Wallace 

wrote:



On Tue, 6 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 18:35:26 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <

emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net


Subject: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking

for

configs to study

hey everyone.

i have been messing around all day with my cnc mill trying to get

spindle

orientation working so that I can get my toolchanger working



I found a video on youtube from Tallas83 that showed what  I want to

do

but

he used a 5i20 card and 7i33 and I am having trouble converting it to

a

standard 7i77 mesa card set up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoXoOYSFY2Q


I got it to load the new config eventually had to change all the

motion

pins to spindle.0 stuff but still getting a bit stuck when I issue a

m19

r0

command the spindle locks but doesn't rotate.  and I can see on my vfd

that

the frequency reference is not getting through even though in the hal
configuration the hm2 analog 05 output is showing a value.  If I

switch

back to my old config it fires right up so hardware is fine.




Is hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena true?
(analog out 5 has a separate enable)




does anyone out there have this working that can help.  I don't need

too

much hand holding I think and I have played with linuxcnc for several

years

now.  just getting stuck up against a wall.

regards

Andrew

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Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 01:47:18 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for
configs to study

Hey I do have npn proxy switches.  They run on 6v how do I power Them
though?

Can I use 24v field io?



You can, but you have to make sure that the prox ground lead does not become 
disconnected or you will feed 24V to the input.


Also some NPN prox's have built in pullups so may source 24V to the 
output when off. You can check this by measuring the prox output when powered by 
24V (make sure to check both states)




On Thu, Jul 8, 2021, 1:40 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:


On Thu, 8 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 01:34:02 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
looking for

configs to study

Also when you say Pull down resistor can I just solder that between the

pnp

prox output wire and the encoder input?



This would be a resistor between the prox output and ground



On Thu, Jul 8, 2021, 1:27 AM andrew beck 

wrote:



Looks like I bought the wrong type of switch then lol.

Do you think I'll lose accuracy with a resistor?


Remember this is my index pulse for spindle..



On Thu, Jul 8, 2021, 1:15 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:


On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 20:47:35 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <

emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>

Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card

looking for

configs to study

peter you found it lol!

I have the spindle turned on by a standard output from the 7i77 card

anyway

so didn't check that the spindle enable signal was turning on the
hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena pin

i just went through it again and double checked stuff and netted the
spinena pin also and it works.  I didn't realise that the analog out

value

only works if the spinena is on.  but I know now

so next issue is I have a 5v pnp prox that I want to put on the

spindle

for

a index sensor as my motor/gearbox ratio is not 1-1.

PCW can I use a 5v pnp sensor straight into the 7i77 encoder input

same

as

I would do with the field io?



The encoder inputs have a 2K pullup resistor to 5V so you would need a
relatively stiff pull down resistor on the output of the PNP sensor for
that to
work (say 270 ohm)



ps john.  I will add post up my config once I have it working real

nice

for

everyone to copy.  anyone that has a 7i77 card should be able to just

plug

in and get spindle orientation so long as they have a suitable vfd


regards

Andrew

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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 3:38 AM Peter C. Wallace 

wrote:



On Tue, 6 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 18:35:26 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <

emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net


Subject: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card

looking

for

configs to study

hey everyone.

i have been messing around all day with my cnc mill trying to get

spindle

orientation working so that I can get my toolchanger working



I found a video on youtube from Tallas83 that showed what  I want to

do

but

he used a 5i20 card and 7i33 and I am having trouble converting it

to

a

standard 7i77 mesa card set up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoXoOYSFY2Q


I got it to load the new config eventually had to change all the

motion

pins to spindle.0 stuff but still getting a bit stuck when I issue a

m19

r0

command the spindle locks but doesn't rotate.  and I can see on my

vfd

that

the frequency reference is not getting through even though in the

hal

configuration the hm2 analog 05 output is showing a value.  If I

switch

back to my old config it fires right up so hardware is fine.




Is hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena true?
(analog out 5 has a separate enable)




does anyone out there have this working that can help.  I don't need

too

much hand holding I think and I have played with linuxcnc for

several

years

now.  just getting stuck up against a wall.

regards

Andrew

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Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, andy pugh wrote:


Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 15:25:37 +0100
From: andy pugh 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for
configs to study

On Wed, 7 Jul 2021 at 15:20, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:



Also some NPN prox's have built in pullups so may source 24V to the
output when off.



Would a 5.2V zener at the terminal block be a sensible precaution?


Yes, a Zener woud protect the encoder input

(actually the 7I77 encoder input chip is OK to 25V,
but the 2K pullup resistor would be damaged)

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
?? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:17:09 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

Maybe it's a MESA issue?  It's set up as output type 1 which is 0-100% which 
means either the Out2 should invert when pwmgen gets negative?  Or the output 
should clip to 0 when the calculation determines a negative output.

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen


PWM mode 1 is basically sign-manitude mode so if you connect
the PWM direction to the drives direction control,
and give signed command and feedback inputs to the PID
it should work properly.

BTW this is commented out. 
setp   pid.s.maxerror .0005
If I set it to 0.05 then the spindle does stop but now the PID isn't very 
responsive.  I have to add large amounts of P and I to get it to stabilize 
quickly and at 100RPM it then surges


Set it to 0.5 and it goes wonky with the negative error again.  Any smaller 
than 0.05 and response is so poor that it's really not a manageable system.


I could just switch over to using step/dir and do away with the PWM but that 
likely won't solve the closed loop problem.   The AC Servo by itself is 
responsive and stable.  But the pulley ratio means what I tell it isn't what 
it's doing and that's an issue for tapping.


John




-Original Message-
From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-08-21 4:25 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 at 00:21, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> Oh and I was using this series of postings as a guide.
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/32553-spindle-pid-control
> but he never ran into this issue.  Same with the other postings where they 
have problems achieving the speed.  Not running away
with a negative correction.

I have had exactly your problem in the past, but I can't remember how
I fixed it, as it was years ago.

But it was definitely caused by the PID going negative, but negative
output giving positive speed/

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
?? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 18:16:15 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.


From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]

From: John Dammeyer 

Maybe it's a MESA issue?  It's set up as output type 1 which is 0-100% which
means either the Out2 should invert when pwmgen gets negative?  Or the output
should clip to 0 when the calculation determines a negative output.
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen


PWM mode 1 is basically sign-manitude mode so if you connect
the PWM direction to the drives direction control,
and give signed command and feedback inputs to the PID
it should work properly.

I don't understand that Peter.  The PIN file for my device doesn't have an 
explicit PWM Direction controlled by the PWM module.  And in either case the 
potential for a random change in direction as it approaches 0 RPM is 
unacceptable behavior for a spindle.



This is required behavior if you wish to control the velocity around 0
via PID



What should the pwmgen do when hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.value is assigned a 
negative value if it's configured with setp hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.output-type 1


The PWM duty cycle should be the same for positive and negative numbers
(only the direction pin will change), This is what is meant by sign-magnitude



If there isn't anything in the PIN file that assigned a direction output to 
the pwmgen shouldn't the PWM output pin then stay at 0?  For the spindle it's 
not safe to have the pwmgen decide to change the direction because the 
response to slowing down isn't fast enough so the error term goes negative.


If you need a valid direction signal, you could use the absolute functions
sign bit as Andy suggested. This is like the only way to get a stable PID
because if you have 0 output for negative number you have a nonlinearity
the PID cannot really deal well with.

If you really want 0 output for negative PWM values, you could choise
PWM mode2 (up/down mode)



I'll just double check again to see if indeed a negative value is assigned 
into 00.value.


It should not, that would be contrary to mode 1's definition







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Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:21:05 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for
configs to study

hey Peter

using a 7i77 mesa card

I just tried my PNP sensor now i have wired up the ground and 5v correctly
and have the signal wire into the pin 7  which is the index channel.  I
have also changed the jumper for the index channel to single ended
operation.

it doesn't work...  what am I doing wrong?

also I am testing by using the command setp hm2 7i92
encoder.03.index.enable 1  (etc  command probably is wrong here as I am
working from memory but it changes the pin color in hal configurator)





I can see the proxy is switching as the led turns off and on at the back of
the thing

for reference here is the link to the proxy I am using

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867535621.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3a3b4c4d5BJjid

On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 7:37 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:



I would check the prox voltage ouput voltage in both states

You can check the index state directly in hal by monitoring
hm2_7i92.0.encoder.0N.input-index (N is the  encoder channel
you are testing) I think this is inverted from the pin state.

Note that if you do not have the stiff (270 Ohm or so) pull down
resistor, the prox output will always be high (around 5V)

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:49:05 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for
configs to study

also just confirming that the

hm2_7i92.0.encoder.03.input-index doesn't change state.

I can see a few options to change.

should I change to the IDX/ input?

or should I change the value of resistor?



You should measure the voltage at the prox output/index input
in both states. It should be lower than .7V in one state and
higher than 3V in the other.




regards

Andrew

On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 4:46 PM andrew beck  wrote:


just confirming that I hava a 265ohm resistor between ground and the
encoder index input


On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 4:39 PM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:


On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:21:05 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <

emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>

Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card

looking for

configs to study

hey Peter

using a 7i77 mesa card

I just tried my PNP sensor now i have wired up the ground and 5v

correctly

and have the signal wire into the pin 7  which is the index channel.  I
have also changed the jumper for the index channel to single ended
operation.

it doesn't work...  what am I doing wrong?

also I am testing by using the command setp hm2 7i92
encoder.03.index.enable 1  (etc  command probably is wrong here as I am
working from memory but it changes the pin color in hal configurator)





I can see the proxy is switching as the led turns off and on at the back

of

the thing

for reference here is the link to the proxy I am using



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867535621.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3a3b4c4d5BJjid


On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 7:37 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:



I would check the prox voltage ouput voltage in both states

You can check the index state directly in hal by monitoring
hm2_7i92.0.encoder.0N.input-index (N is the  encoder channel
you are testing) I think this is inverted from the pin state.

Note that if you do not have the stiff (270 Ohm or so) pull down
resistor, the prox output will always be high (around 5V)

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] Ideal Atom?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sat, 7 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:

> Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 20:07:05 +0200
> From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Ideal Atom?
> 
> 2012/1/7 Kirk Wallace :
>> mATX with PCI slots and Atom. Looks ideal to me.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Point-View-MB-D510-MATX-Motherboard-6-channel/dp/B0037L739U
>> http://alturl.com/hzxab
>>
>> I don't see it available in the US though.
>>
>
> Any particular reason to get MB with 2 separate PCI slots?
> D510 / D525 mini-ITX boards have 1 PCI slot. I do not know, how do
> they behave, if they are used with those riser cards, which have 2 PCI
> slots on them.
>
> Viesturs


Umm I would be cautious about a 2 slot riser. This violates just about every 
PCI electrical spec in the book...


>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Servo drive?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:

> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 17:43:21 +0200
> From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo drive?
> 
> 2012/1/12 andy pugh :
>> On 12 January 2012 15:27, andy pugh  wrote:
 Is it supposed to receive any additional 5V, 12V or something similar
 for logic power?
>>>
>>> Yes, Vdd.
>>
>> On reflection, it might be wise to use a DC/DC convertor for Vdd, so
>> that it has a floating, isolated logic power, that can be safely
>> referenced to PSU gnd.
>>
>
> And how much would such a convertor cost? I would need to convert
> 330VDC to 12VDC.
>
> Since I have to connect controller's GND to Vss, I could take +12V
> from PC PSU for logic power. But that introduces a risk of burning
> down a PC, if something happens in the chip, so I could sacrifice a PC
> PSU just for +12V supply to the logics of these chips.
>
> Viesturs



Yow! Yow! Yow!

Dont even think about running a line operated drive with a PC power supply

_Everything_ connected to the IRAM module must be isolated with a minimum
test voltage of 3750VAC from low side control and 2500VAC from ground!

I am advising against this unless you are familiar with high voltage high 
power circuits, isolation circuits, and guaranteeing that DC-DC converters and 
isolators to not fail in such a way as to compromise isolation.

>
> --
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> Mar 27 - Feb 2
> Save $400 by Jan. 27
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Re: [Emc-users] Servo drive?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:


Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 21:49:16 +0200
From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo drive?

2012/1/12 andy pugh :
On 12 January 2012 18:14, Viesturs L??cis  wrote:


I was meaning a 12 to 12 (or 12 to 15) one, like
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/dc-dc-converters/6727408/

That gives the IRAMS board an isolated 15V supply,


Thanks for the link!


I have a feeling that that might not have a large enough current
capacity, though. I just found my proto circuit, and it has a
transformer on it, and I probably did that for a reason.


The manual says:
Quiscent VCC supply current: typical = 1.6, max = 2.3 mA


Quiesent means inactive (I would expect 60 - 100 MA at 20 KHz gate drive)


Do I understand that this is how much current does logics consume with 15VDC?
In that case one for each chip should be totally fine, because that
dc-dc converter has 200 mA output.


Oh yes, I really would like to do that.
Unfortunately I do not have much of a choice to get those motors
running. So it is just one more case, where I will have to learn
things the hard way.


With large capacitors at 300VDC the hard way can be very hard indeed.
You might not get the chance to learn from mistakes.


Do You mean risk of high voltage and even higher power electrical shock here?


Re your question about a 1:1 transformer, I think you probably want a
2:1 anyway, as rectified mains will give you >300V and your motors are
specced for 160V.


Am I missing something? Where do You see 160V?
Here is motor data (from the first email of this thread):

Motor type: T3-0130-60-560
Winding number: 01-00111

Rated Speed: 6000 min^-1
DC Bus Voltage: 560 V
Nominal AC Voltage: 330 V
Rated Motor Voltage: 309 V
Rated Torque: 1,00 Nm
Rated AC Current: 1,40 A
Stall Torque: 1,30 Nm
Stall AC Current: 1,67 A
Peak Torque: 5,2 Nm
Peak Current: 7,2 A
Max. Speed: 12000 min^-1
EMF Constant: 47,0 V/1000
Torque Constant: 0,78 Nm/A
Terminal Resistance: 12,7 ??
Terminal Inductance: 21,5 mH
Number of poles: 6

El. Time Constant: 1,7 ms
Mech. Time Constant: 2,4 ms
Thermal Time Constant: 30 min
Rotor Inertia: 0,65 kg*cm^2


If motors were meant for 160V, I would already had purchased
GraniteDevices drives weeks ago...

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] source code link request

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Spiderdab wrote:

> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 16:34:45 +0100
> From: Spiderdab <77...@tiscali.it>
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] source code link request
> 
> Sorry for the stupid question, but really i can't find where emc2 source
> code is!
> i'm looking for master code.
> Need to take vismach.py, cause i've messed it..
> thanks!
>



git.linuxcnc.org?

Peter Wallace

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Re: [Emc-users] source code link request

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Spiderdab wrote:

> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 16:54:44 +0100
> From: Spiderdab <77...@tiscali.it>
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] source code link request
> 
> On ven, 2012-01-13 at 07:39 -0800, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012, Spiderdab wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 16:34:45 +0100
>>> From: Spiderdab <77...@tiscali.it>
>>> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>>> 
>>> To: Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> Subject: [Emc-users] source code link request
>>>
>>> Sorry for the stupid question, but really i can't find where emc2 source
>>> code is!
>>> i'm looking for master code.
>>> Need to take vismach.py, cause i've messed it..
>>> thanks!
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> git.linuxcnc.org?
>>
>> Peter Wallace
>
> uhu.. ok.
> i asked 'cause i needed to download only a file, and i couldn't from
> here. i think the only way is to use a git command. i don't know which
> but i think i can realize.

Sure you can, just point you browser at git.linuxcnc.org
scroll down to "heads"

pick the branch you want and then "tree"

>
>
>
>
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Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] tapping problem?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012, a...@conceptmachinery.com wrote:

> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:42:44 -0700
> From: a...@conceptmachinery.com
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: [Emc-users] tapping problem?
> 
> Hi
> i there spindle motor and motor drive that can be better used for tapping?
> Problem with use tap is that spindle motor can easy crash tap and after
> that extra  charge - + equipment - to remove broke tap from hole.
>
> Every one try to get max from each tap and many times tap that "look good"
> crashed in the hole.
> Where is solution?
> The solution is in torque sensitive motor- motor drive system for spindle.
> Example: tap 1" can hold 80 lb.ft. More than that tap will be crashed.
> Motor drive that can be programmed - do not exceed 80 lb.ft , and if so
> E-Stop  machine.
> For smaller tap torque can be programmed for 20 lb.ft for bigger tap  200
> lb.ft and etc.
> Idea is clear.
> Put this kind motor drive under EMC2 control and problem solved.
> Is there better solution to prevent breaking tap in hole?
>
> Thanks
> aram
>



This is just a standard torque mode drive with a PID output limit applied.
I do wonder is this would really help though, since the spindle 
inertia is sufficient to break the tap if it "grabs"

A torque mode drive could possible be used another way however. Since the 
torque applied to is measureable (just the PID output)
Having a work-per-tapped-hole figure could warn of a dull tap




>
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Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Software stepgen through Mesa GPIO pins

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:

> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:14:39 +0200
> From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Software stepgen through Mesa GPIO pins
> 
> 2012/1/16 Chris Radek :
>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 05:44:47PM +0200, Viesturs L??cis wrote:
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> I have a question:
>>> How can I do software step generation and export it through gpio pins on 
>>> 5i23?
>>
>> Why do you want to do this?
>>
>
> Because the machine has 3 servo motors to be controlled by 7i39 card
> and also 2 stepper motors.
> Ideal solution would be modifying 5i23 firmware for 7i39 card to add
> stepgens, but I have no skill to do that by myself. Can anyone help me
> out on this? Usually Peter helped me out on such situations (which
> added lots of bonus points to my evaluation of their customer service
> and my loyalty), I asked him, but it seems that he is too busy this
> time.
> I have to go to client's site day after tomorrow and now I am figuring
> out all the possible ways to get machine working.
>
> Viesturs





I can do this sometime today

I was very busy last week so got behind on custom bitfiles.


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Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Ian W. Wright wrote:


Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 15:55:30 +
From: Ian W. Wright 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine
Controller

On 18/01/2012 16:28, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:

It's no good, we'd just get sued by the Large Magellanic Cloud…

Who are they going to sue in an open source project - the
developers ( who are they? anyone who has ever mage any
alteration to the software? ), everyone who usues the
software? or who?

Ian


No telling who a Large Magellanic Cloud might sue :-)

Peter Wallace
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Possible Retrofit candidate for someone in the heartland

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012, BRIAN GLACKIN wrote:

> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:03:00 -0500
> From: BRIAN GLACKIN 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: [Emc-users] OT: Possible Retrofit candidate for someone in the
> heartland
> 
> Kansas is just too far for me.
>
> http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=4975994
>
> Looks like the were a litte agressive on the control system with the
> forklift.


Ahh, they just tenderized it a little...

There's also an enormous 5 axis waterjet:

http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=4988692

appropriately rusty of course.


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] mesa info

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:

> Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:37:12 -0600 (CST)
> From: kqt4a...@gmail.com
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] mesa info
> 
> I would like to take a look at programming the mesa hardware but I can not 
> locate any resources
> I sent an email to t...@mesanet.com but have not received a reply yet
> I have one of their 5i25 cards on order and have been eying the 4c81
> Are there any mailing list or forums for people programming this hardware
>
> Richard

Have you looked at the 5I25 manual and the 5i25.zip file at
www.mesanet.com/software/parallel/5i25.zip? This contains all
the sources for all the firmware used with linuxcnc.

The 4C81 is not a linuxcnc supported device




Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] mesa info

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:

> Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:26:32 -0600 (CST)
> From: kqt4a...@gmail.com
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mesa info
> 
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2012, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2012, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:37:12 -0600 (CST)
>>> From: kqt4a...@gmail.com
>>> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>>> 
>>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> Subject: [Emc-users] mesa info
>>>
>>> I would like to take a look at programming the mesa hardware but I can not 
>>> locate any resources
>>> I sent an email to t...@mesanet.com but have not received a reply yet
>>> I have one of their 5i25 cards on order and have been eying the 4c81
>>> Are there any mailing list or forums for people programming this hardware
>>>
>>> Richard
>>
>> Have you looked at the 5I25 manual and the 5i25.zip file at
>> www.mesanet.com/software/parallel/5i25.zip? This contains all
>> the sources for all the firmware used with linuxcnc.
>>
>> The 4C81 is not a linuxcnc supported device
>
> Thanks for the link I am not able to connect to mesanet right now
> I realize this is not stickly a LinuxCNC question
> Mesa makes programmable hardware designed to interface with the world
> I would like to find people that are programming this
> I only mentioned the 4c81 as an example
>
> Richard
>
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Yeah theres some connectivity problem now but you can always use our 
(SLOW) local copy at freeby.mesanet.com

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA questions

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012, Andrew wrote:

> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:26:50 +0200
> From: Andrew 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: [Emc-users]  MESA questions
> 
> Hello,
>
> Some questions regarding MESA cards:
> 1. Please confirm the configuration 7i43+7i48 for 6 channel analog servo.
> Is there full firmware support?

Yes, but you do need to use LinuxCNC 2.5 to support the 7I48

a 5I25/7I77 might be a better solution if you need additional 12/24V I/O

> 2. The friend's machine has 7 servos (including 3 spindles) in step/dir
> mode, and RS422 is preferred for higher input frequency. Which RS422
> daughter cards for 5i20 (or other FPGA) are supported with hardware? Also,
> is there any possible config with 7 steppers and 7 RS422 quadrature
> encoders?
Its a little awkward with 7 but for example:

The 7I52S has 6 RS-422 step/dir outputs and 6 RS-422/TTL encoder 
inputs so 2 of these would give 12 of each. This would require a
5I23 as this is too much logic for a 5I20. This requires LinuxCNC 2.5 as well

2 7I47s would also do, giving 8 encoder inputs (RS-422 only) and
12 RS-422 step/dir outputs.


>
> Thanks,
> Andrew
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA questions

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012, Andrew wrote:

> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 20:36:21 +0200
> From: Andrew 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA questions
> 
> 2012/1/25 Peter C. Wallace 
>
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012, Andrew wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:26:50 +0200
>>> From: Andrew 
>>> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>>> 
>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" >>
>>> Subject: [Emc-users]  MESA questions
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Some questions regarding MESA cards:
>>> 1. Please confirm the configuration 7i43+7i48 for 6 channel analog servo.
>>> Is there full firmware support?
>>
>> Yes, but you do need to use LinuxCNC 2.5 to support the 7I48
>>
>> a 5I25/7I77 might be a better solution if you need additional 12/24V I/O
>>
>
> Thanks! I probably stick to 7i43 as I already have it. Which firmware
> should I use here?
>
SVST6_6
>
>> > 2. The friend's machine has 7 servos (including 3 spindles) in step/dir
>>> mode, and RS422 is preferred for higher input frequency. Which RS422
>>> daughter cards for 5i20 (or other FPGA) are supported with hardware?
>> Also,
>>> is there any possible config with 7 steppers and 7 RS422 quadrature
>>> encoders?
>> Its a little awkward with 7 but for example:
>>
>> The 7I52S has 6 RS-422 step/dir outputs and 6 RS-422/TTL encoder
>> inputs so 2 of these would give 12 of each. This would require a
>> 5I23 as this is too much logic for a 5I20. This requires LinuxCNC 2.5 as
>> well
>>
>
>> 2 7I47s would also do, giving 8 encoder inputs (RS-422 only) and
>> 12 RS-422 step/dir outputs.
>>
>> Which 5i23 firmware goes for both cases?



Both would need a new firmware files (SVST12_12_7I52S, SVST12_12_7I47)
>
>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Andrew
>>>
>> --
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>>
>> Peter Wallace
>> Mesa Electronics
>>
>> (\__/)
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>> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA questions

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012, Andrew wrote:

> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:13:51 +0200
> From: Andrew 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA questions
> 
> 2012/1/25 Peter C. Wallace 
>
>>> Thanks! I probably stick to 7i43 as I already have it. Which firmware
>>> should I use here?
>>>
>> SVST6_6
>>>
>>>> Which 5i23 firmware goes for both cases?
>> Both would need a new firmware files (SVST12_12_7I52S, SVST12_12_7I47)
>>
>> Thanks, Peter! Just ordered 7i48.
> I found freeby.mesanet.com/SVST6_6.BIT, is it the last version?

Dont think its for a 7I43. What size 7I43 do you have?

>
> Andrew
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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 5i23 & 7i39 - possible damage?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:


Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:10:02 +0200
From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 5i23 & 7i39 - possible damage?

Hello again!


I checked 7i39 manual 2 more times, did not find any warning that
would tell not to pull up to 5V, so I turned PC off and set all the
5i23 connectors to pull up to 5V.

What I am seeing now makes me think that there is something wrong:

In HAL file I have:
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.040.is_output 1
setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.040.invert_output 1

When output is "false":
There are 3,46V between 5i23 pin and GND.
There are 1,68V between 5i23 pin and +5V.

When output is "true":
There are 0.6V between 5i23 pin and GND.
There are 4.65V between 5i23 pin and +5V.

I measured: it actually has 5,4V between +5V and GND.

I think that voltages, when output is "true" are ok, but I think that
there is something wrong with the "false" state.

Am I missing something here?

Viesturs


This is expected. The FPGA outputs only swing to 3.3V when driven by the FPGA, 
You can get 5V output swing, but only if you set the FPGA outputs you wish to 
have 5V swing to open drain mode and you have the connector (W1,W4,W7) set to 
5V (UP) and pullup power (W2,W5,W8)  set to 5V (UP) and bus switch mode 
(W3,W6,W9) set to 5V (UP)


Note that in open drain mode the the output can sink significant current
(pull the output down) but can only source what the pullup resistor supplies 
(~1.6 mA from 3.3K pullup returned to 5V with output grounded)




2012/1/27 Viesturs L??cis :

Hello!

In my attempts to understand, why I cannot get my diy output driver
for switching the laser power on/off, I discovered that 5i23's gpio
pins aru pulled up to only 3,3V, not 5V, when turned off, so there is
1,7 V still remaining supplied to optoisolator.
There are jumpers on 5i23 that determine, if pins are pulled up to 3,3 or 5V.
I have 7i39 card attached to the same connector. Is there a chance for
possible damage for 7i39, if I will set that connector to pull up all
pins to 5V instead of 3,3V?

Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:

> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:45:30 +0200
> From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
> 
> Hello, folks!
>
> I would appreciate some advice on servo tuning.
> I have Keling Nema23 BLDC servo motors attached to Mesa 7i39.
> And also zero experience with this :)
>
> The way I am doing the tuning is:
> 1) start Emc, hit F1 and F2;
> 2) open Machine -> Calibration;
> 3) change P value, for example, from 1 to 3, press "Test" and then try
> jogging the joint;
> 4) my target max velocity is 10m/min, which would require 4000 rpm on
> motor, so I start jogging at 1100 mm/min - seems fine, increase speed
> to ~3000 mm/min and motor starts oscillating;
>
> When motor starts oscillating, I hit F2 to disable any movement and motor 
> stops;
> So here I would like to change some PID values and then try again.
> The problem I have encountered is:
> Motor starts oscillating again as soon as I hit F2 regardless of what
> are the PID settings. If I restart Emc and start over, it is fine with
> the same PID settings until the moment it gets a chance to start
> oscillating again - then I cannot stop it from doing that. Setting PID
> values back to default also does not help - it will oscillate anyway.
>
> Why on earth would it oscillate as soon as motion is enabled? Is there
> a way to aviod it?
>
> Default PID values are:
>
> DEADBAND =  0.000
> P = 1
> I = 0
> D = 0
> FF0 =   1
> FF1 =   1
> FF2 = 0
> BIAS =  0


Start with no FF0 and FF1

>
> I have been playing only with P parameter so far, following this guideline:
> 1) increase P up to the moment, when motor becomes unstable;
> 2) add I to make it stable;
> 3) add D to make the loop stiffer;
>



This is wrong, you add D to  make it more stable not I

I is added in small does only when all other tuning is close to remove the 
last bit of static error and slew errors

> In my previous attempts I had:
> DEADBAND =  0.0005
> P = 90
> I = 40
> D = 1,65
> FF0 = 0
> FF1 = 1,5
> FF2 = 0
> BIAS = 0,0005
>
>> From previous discussions I recall that FF1 should be very close to 1,
> like 1,001 or something like that. Since I have it larger, I decided
> to start over, because the motor still was oscillating at 2700 mm/min.
>
> Viesturs
>
> P.S. How hard would it be to create some kind of auto-tuning routine?


FF1 will only be close to 1 with the PID/PWM scale set correctly for the 
situation

BTW what is you sample period? depending on motor poles and RPM required you 
may need to decrease the sample period from the default 1 ma to maybe 250 uSec 
(4 KHz)


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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:

> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:49:18 +0200
> From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
> 
> Hello again!
>
> I tried searching my mailbox with more than 2 years of this mailing
> list in it for some "servo tuning for noobs" (actual keywords used
> were "servo tuning"), but found only 1 viable thread, which contained
> this link;
> http://www.newport.com/servicesupport/Tutorials/default.aspx?id=152
>
> My problem is:
> I can tune servo motor to move smoothly up to ~3600 mm/min, which is
> ~1500 RPM for motor.
> In higher speeds at one moment motor stalls and oscillates.
> Where can I read, how to proceed to reach higher velocities?
> I have been playing with P and D parameters, but do not see any improvement.
>
> Viesturs


Whats is your servo thread period, and how many poles does the motor have?


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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:


Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:58:27 +0200
From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?

2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace :

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:


Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:49:18 +0200
From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
    
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?

Hello again!

I tried searching my mailbox with more than 2 years of this mailing
list in it for some "servo tuning for noobs" (actual keywords used
were "servo tuning"), but found only 1 viable thread, which contained
this link;
http://www.newport.com/servicesupport/Tutorials/default.aspx?id=152

My problem is:
I can tune servo motor to move smoothly up to ~3600 mm/min, which is
~1500 RPM for motor.
In higher speeds at one moment motor stalls and oscillates.
Where can I read, how to proceed to reach higher velocities?
I have been playing with P and D parameters, but do not see any improvement.

Viesturs



Whats is your servo thread period, and how many poles does the motor have?



Servo period is default 1ms.
Motors have 4 poles, motors have 2048 CPR (8192
PPR) encoders.

Viesturs


What BLDC mode are you using?

When it fails and oscillates does the motor behave normally when stopped 
(equal torque both directions)?


If not you may somehow have lost encoder counts, this should be checked

Do you have the encoder filter on?




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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:

> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:22:33 +0200
> From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
> 
> 2012/1/27 andy pugh :
>> On 27 January 2012 19:54, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
>>
>>> What BLDC mode are you using?
>> ...
>>> If not you may somehow have lost encoder counts, this should be checked
>>
>> Try mode "h" and comment-out the rawcounts lines, that ought to make
>> it stick in Hal-sensor mode, and then it can't lose synch.
>>
>
> Hmm, I used "h" mode, when I tried to set up bldc component to move
> motors properly. How is that going to help me?
> Motors move smoothly up to ~1500RPM, but my ideal target is 4000RPM.
> minimum target is 3000RPM, so I would like to find out, if there is a
> place to read about the strategy, how to tune servos from this point.
> I tried increasing/decreasing P and D parameters, but do not see
> improvement.
>
> Viesturs

This is not likely a tuning problem...

More likely that you have either run out of headroom (what is the motor 
voltage vs supply voltage?) or you have a commutation problem. Commutation 
problems will happen if you have encoder count errors in q, qi, or  qh mode
Of course if you have encoder count problems these need to be fixed  whatever 
commutation mode you use, but using h mode will eliminate encoder count 
problems as a suspect in you oscillation troubles.

Another detail that can cause strange behavior if you are close to the maximum 
RPM because of voltage limits, is the maximum PWM duty cycle. This should be 
limited via the PID components max_output parameter to about 95% of the PWM 
components full scale value.



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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:


Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:49:38 +0200
From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?

2012/1/27 andy pugh :
On 27 January 2012 20:37, Viesturs L??cis  wrote:


What's the PID output maxing out at?


OUTPUT_SCALE =  166.667
OUTPUT_OFFSET = 0.0
MAX_OUTPUT =166.667


So if you set the PID comps MAX_OUTPUT to 158 (and PWM scale is 166.67) that 
will limit maximum PWM to the desired 95%




I don't know what these numbers mean. But if the PWM is hitting 95%
and the motor isn't going any faster then it might be a voltage or
current problem.


Any place for reading to find that out? Manual has a little
information only about output_scale.



If you go over 95%


How can I check that?

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:

> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 11:25:00 +0200
> From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
> 
> Hello!
>
> I have spent some time with the machine and have tried some of the 
> suggestions.
>
> 2012/1/27 andy pugh :
>>
>> At that speed with a 2-pole motor a 1ms servo period ought to be OK,
>> but you should try 500uS to see if that helps.
>>
>
> This was the only thing that helped - I reduced servo period to 500 us
> and the motor oscillation borderline shifted from 3660 mm/min to 5114
> mm/min.
> Reducing servo period down to 250 us did not provide any additional 
> improvement.
>
>>
>> What happens if you disconnect the PID (and the motors from the
>> machine!) and setp bldc.0.value 0.95 ?
>>
>
> I did the following:
> # net motor.00.command  pid.0.output  =>  bldc.0.value
> setp bldc.0.value 0.95
>
> Result: nothing. Motor does not move.
>
> If I change back:
> net motor.00.command  pid.0.output  =>  bldc.0.value
> # setp bldc.0.value 0.95
>
> Then I can jog motor.
>
> I tried 3 times switching back and forth - with PID disconected and
> BLDC value set to 0,95 motor does not move.

Thats very strange, the motor should run at full speed with a fixed bldc drive 
value. Can you post your hal file somewhere (like pastebin.com)


>
> 2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace :
>>
>> So if you set the PID comps MAX_OUTPUT to 158 (and PWM scale is 166.67) that
>> will limit maximum PWM to the desired 95%
>>
>
> I reduced those values and also set max output to be less than 95% of
> output scale:
> OUTPUT_SCALE =  125
> OUTPUT_OFFSET = 0.0
> MAX_OUTPUT =118
>
> It did not provide any additional improvement.

It would not provide any improvement, just prevent pathological behaviour if 
the PID sets the PWM to 100% (which should be prevented)



>
> So this far only reducing servo period did help. Unfortunately that is
> coming with RTAI error warning messages. I ran latency test for a
> while and got 12000 ns max jitter on servo thread.
>
> Viesturs

Is this on a 5I23?

2 KHz should be easy (I am running a 8I20 test at 6 KHz currently with a 5I23)

Do you have a base thread? (you shouldn't need one)

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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:


Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 18:42:03 +0200
From: "[UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis" 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?

2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace :



I tried 3 times switching back and forth - with PID disconected and
BLDC value set to 0,95 motor does not move.


Thats very strange, the motor should run at full speed with a fixed bldc drive
value. Can you post your hal file somewhere (like pastebin.com)



Done:
http://pastebin.com/0M1ASyhB

I tried one more, this time with joint1 (Y1 section in HAL file).
What I did:
Changed to trivkins
Added setp bldc.1.value 0.95
Commented out pid.1.out => bldc.1.value

Still the same - no movement.
If I reattach pid.1, I can jog the motor.




It would not provide any improvement, just prevent pathological behaviour if
the PID sets the PWM to 100% (which should be prevented)





So this far only reducing servo period did help. Unfortunately that is
coming with RTAI error warning messages. I ran latency test for a
while and got 12000 ns max jitter on servo thread.



Is this on a 5I23?



Yes, 5i23 with 2x 7i39s.



2 KHz should be easy (I am running a 8I20 test at 6 KHz currently with a 5I23)

Do you have a base thread? (you shouldn't need one)



No base thead.
The PC is:
Intel D525MW
2GB RAM
4GB CompactFlash in SATA adapter


I have been trying to get the tuning right.
So far I have managed to get one motor move smoothly up to 4000
mm/min. In HALScope it seems that f-error stays within 0,1 mm during
movement, which I find to be accetable, static f-error is less than
0,003 mm.

Here are PID parameters for that motor:
# PID tuning params
DEADBAND =  0.002
P = 380
I = 10
D = 1.9
FF0 =   0
FF1 =   0.1
FF2 =   0
BIAS =  0

I hav a problem with remaining 2 motors.
Firstly I thought that I might copy these settings, since drives and
motors are equal and then try to adjust for the different load.
That failed.
Then I started from scratch and I cannot find any settings to turn the
motors smoothly. I set everything to 0, P to 1 and it is already
oscillating. Then I set P and got "joint exceeded following error".
The f-error is set to 100 mm, so obviously P should be higher.
I have tried numerous values between 1 and 300, but nowehere I get
smooth motion.


What should I do?




Sounds like your commutation is wrong, no amount of tuning will help this
(wrong Hall order if you are using Halls wron paratmeyets if you are using q 
mode etc etc)




2012. gada 28. janv??ris 18:14 noel  rakst??ja:

All interested in Servo Tuning.

Have a look at:
http://support.motioneng.com/Downloads-Notes/Tuning/default.htm



Thank You! I will do some reading.

Viesturs

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