Re: [EVDL] e-volks upgrade....

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Congratulations!  Makes me want to change to lithium sooner than later. 
Presently, I have 18 US125 FLA batteries that weigh about 1,200 pounds, and an 
old Curtis controller that is limited to about 350 amps. Makes for some 
ponderously slow acceleration.
http://evalbum.com/4331
Sounds like you're having a good time and success with the project!

Tom Keenan


On Jul 18, 2014, at 7:09 AM, Zeke Yewdall via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Update and EV grin.  I took the VW bug out for the first serious drive
 with Lithium last night.  WOW.
 
 Before -- with the 12 volt AGMs.  I was getting maybe 280 amps peak battery
 amperage on a freshly charged pack, dropping to less than 100 amps after 5
 miles or so.  Pathetic performance (lots of driving on the shoulder).
 
 With the 100AH, 72 volts of CALB lithium, I was regularly getting 200 amps
 on acceleration, and I got 370 amps peak once (should probably not do that
 too much for the health of the batteries).  The alltrax 450 never even got
 warm, with it's new heat sink and cooling fan. It's peppy now... way more
 than a ICE VW bug.  30mph up hill, and can pull out onto the highway just
 fine (highway being the 45mph road -- not 75mph freeway).  And... the motor
 (6.7 series) is actually running cooler than before as well.  I think
 because the controller is able to keep the speed up, the motor RPM is not
 dropping like it was before, so it's actually cooling better with its
 internal fan.  And, it takes less time to climb the hill when you can keep
 up 30mph instead of 15.  After climbing a two mile hill at 250+ battery
 amps most the way, it was hot but not too hot to hold onto.  I kept it in
 2nd up to about 40, then switched to 3rd for more power on the highway.
 1st is able to peel out in the dirt.  I'm sure that driving it like that
 doesn't help the efficiency, but it's way more fun that it was as a lead
 sled (it's also about 400lbs lighter).  One thing 50mph around curves
 is a little scary... something to do with standard suspension and brakes of
 a '73 VW bugI only took 20AH out of them, because I don't have the
 BMS connected to the controller yet, but this weekend, I'll do a full range
 test with the BMS operating.
 
 Makes me want to get lithium for my Ford conversion. 
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Re: [EVDL] How crazy am I?

[Tom Keenan via EV]

The discharge rate of the cells should play into the calculations as well. If 
the cells have a 3C max rate, 45 90 ah cells could produce about 52 HP (270 
amps max@144v), resulting in a somewhat underpowered vehicle.  
How much does exceeding the discharge rate reduce the life of the pack?  Is 
there a discharge rate that, once passed, makes the pack subject to random cell 
failures (i.e. more than 10C will damage the internal structure of a certain 
brand cell )?

Tom Keenan


On Jul 21, 2014, at 11:21 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org 
wrote:

 On 21 Jul 2014 at 14:12, Ben Goren via EV wrote:
 
 I'm really only looking for a battery pack big enough for local trips;
 a couple dozen miles would be plenty. I suspect that the smallest pack
 that puts out the necessary voltage is going to be just about the
 right size ...
 
 Hmm.  Maybe.  Let's do some math.
 
 A typical subcompact conversion uses around 250 Wh/mi.  (Some have done as 
 well as 150-160 Wh/mi, carefully driven.)  You're not going to match that 
 with a heavier, less aerodynamic car that wasn't designed with fuel 
 efficiency in mind, however.
 
 What can you do?  Well, in the EV Photo Album I found a '66 Mustang 
 conversion that does 375 Wh/mi.
 
 http://www.evalbum.com/733
 
 Here's a '65 ragtop that does 330 Wh/mi.  That sounds a little better.
 
 http://www.evalbum.com/2056
 
 One other similar Mustang entry estimated his energy use as at most 500 
 Wh/mi, but we'll take that with a grain of salt that since he doesn't seem 
 to have measured it accurately yet.
 
 Now, these are BEV conversions.  You're leaving in all the ICE bits for a 
 car that will probably weigh in the 2800-3000lb range before conversion, 
 maybe 3500 or more after.  You'll might also pass up the skinny LRR tires 
 for sticky high performance ones.  So let's be conservative (and assume you 
 probably won't drive like I do ;-) and allow 400 Wh/mi.
 
 You want about 25 miles of range.  So you need 10 kWh, but you don't want to 
 size your battery to that.  You probably want to not exceed 80% DOD for good 
 life, but let's say you're OK with giving up a little battery life, and go 
 to 90%.  So you actually need a battery capacity of about 11.1kWh.
 
 Doing that with lead in the space you have is going to be a non-starter, so 
 I guess we'll go right to lithium.  A LiFePO4 cell has a nominal voltage of 
 3.2v.  Let's say you're going to use a 144v drive system, so you'll need 45 
 cells.  (In a more reasonable world, you'd determine how much energy and 
 power you need, and size the battery from that.  THEN you'd decide what 
 motor and controlller would work with that battery.  However, we'll assume 
 for now that you've already chosen a motor and controller, because it makes 
 the calculations easier.)
 
 We'll start with, as you suggest, the smallest pack that puts out the 
 necessary voltage.   The laptop-size cells are obvously too small unless 
 you go to massive paralleling a la Tesla, so let's jump to something like 
 Headway 38140 cells. I'm no lithium expert, but I'd guess that these are 
 about the smallest lithium cells practical for an EV (and a pretty light one 
 at that). 
 
 The 38140s are 12ah cells, 38mm in diameter and 152mm long.  Because they're 
 cylindrical, packaging isn't optimum, but (allowing a little wiggle room) a 
 5x9 matrix would be 152mm (6) high, 200mm (7.9) wide, and 360mm (14.2) 
 long.  Your battery box will need to be at least 25-50mm (1-2) larger in 
 all dimensions than this, to allow for wiring, ventilation, and (in the 
 winter) insulation.  So you're looking at maybe 8h x 10w x 16l.  I don't 
 know how that compares to a banker's box, not being familiar with such a 
 critter.
 
 Each cell is good for about 38.4 Wh, so 45 of them would be ... 1.73kWh.  
 Hmm. That would get you about 4.3 miles of range.  We're going to need 
 something larger.  
 
 How about CALB?  The smallest one EVSource sells (that's not an endorsement, 
 it's just one place I found offering them online) is 40ah.  
 
 Each cell is 181mm x 115mm x 46mm.  Again allowing a couple mm per cell for 
 breathing room between (the lithium experts here can give you more info on 
 whether this is necessary), your battery is now 181mm (7.1) high x 585mm 
 (23) long x 432mm (17) wide.  Again add at least 25-50mm (1-2) to each 
 dimension to allow for battery box sizing, to get to around 9h x 25l by 
 19w, maybe even a little higher to allow for installing a BMS.
 
 Now with 45 cells we're talking 5.8kWh and a practical range of 13 miles 
 with new cells, declining to perhaps 9.8 miles after a few years of use.  
 Still only about half what you want.  (But can you live with it?)
 
 Let's see what we can do to get closer to your target range.  The Winston WB-
 LYP90AHA is a 90ah cell.  This will give you nearly 13kWh for a practical 
 range of 29 miles, perhaps 22 miles as they age.  Now we're talking.
 
 Each cell is 218mm high x 143mm long x 61mm wide.  

Re: [EVDL] EVDL biz: H2 and FCEV discussion

[Tom Keenan via EV]

My vote is to retain the rules as is.  As noted previously,  the endless 
production horizon blather of FCEV and H2 is available elsewhere, and generates 
much more heat than light here.

Tom Keenan
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Re: [EVDL] afk ...

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Hope things go well for you Bruce, and looking forward to your return!

Tom Keenan

 On Oct 3, 2014, at 10:05 PM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 
 
 I had queued this message for 10/8 my last day, but it might be better to
 post it now even though we all expect the best for the scheduled evdl server
 downtime/changes. 
 
 Because of the scheduled down time
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVDL-downtime-tp4671941.html
 I may be posting some additional newswire items to offset the downtime
 (there may be more than the usual two news posts per day I usually do). Also
 ...
 
 
 On Oct 8, I will be going under the surgeon's knife to hopefully follow my
 request to only remove the left half of my thyroid that has a goiter
 (growth). Afterward, I will be in a VA hospital bed (which does not allow
 public WiFi, Internet access), recovering before being released to return
 home. So, to some it may seem like I have done another disappearing act/
 falling off the face of the planet (when really I will be going through
 Internet withdrawals). 
 
 While everyone involved keeps saying all will be well  the likelihood of
 problems are minimal, there is a chance that I may become a 'bricked'
 salvaged Tesla that has no hope of being re-enabled. 
 
 If so, at least I got to have a great time and see all the EVs at last
 month's world record EVent
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-507-EVs-In-One-Place-New-Guinness-World-Record-eaasv-org-NDEW-tp4671722.html
 
 If all goes well, after being sent home and recovering a bit from an extra
 smile on my throat, I will be posting what newswires I have queued, and also
 playing newswire catch-up for the x-number of the days the VA kept me afk
 (incommunicado).
 
 
 
 
 . 
 ~/__|o\__
 '@- @'---(= Get Amp'd
 Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
 Electric Vehicle List News
 brucedp.150m.com
 *Originator of the above ASCII art
 % Renewable Energy for your Electric Vehicle %
 (Near Silicon Valley, south of SF, CA USA)
 ...
 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=afk
 
 
 
 --
 View this message in context: 
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/afk-tp4671942.html
 Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
 Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] OT: Alive, back-home after-surgery, and working on getting well ...

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Glad everything went well, and welcome back!

Tom Keenan

 On Oct 10, 2014, at 1:35 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 
 
 [ref
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/afk-tp4671942.html
 afk ...
 ]
 
 While this post does have a whiff of EV stuff to it, it is mostly OT about
 my medical stuff (so, lets try to not post OT medical responses if possible
 - and if you are not interested, please delete this message now ... ).
 
 I had checked into the VA Hospital yesterday morning, and my big/large mouth
 had no problem taking in the breathing tube down my windpipe which my
 anesthesiologist was quite concerned about after seeing on the CAT scan that
 my left side thyroid goiter (growth) was pushing on my wind pipe, narrowing
 it and pushing it to the side (I did not notice any of this as I was in no
 pain, but all the VA doctors were hot to yank the whole thyroid, but got
 them to back off a bit and only take the left side which was causing the
 issue).
 
 I am really glad I do not remember most of the beginning before they knocked
 me out. Though my memory isn't as sharp as when I was younger, I can still
 replay my life experiences a little too well (a good memory did have its
 upside, when I could remember/visualize in my mind my homework pages I had
 done the night before when taking a test that day - it let me be an A
 student). 
 
 All in all, I awoke doing pretty well, with all the doctors and staff
 looking at me amazed at how large the goiter was (?). I had a large bandage
 across my throat
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Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV

[Tom Keenan via EV]

They generally tow cars away for free if the scrap metal is worth at least the 
cost of the tow. You may be able to work a charitable contribution for taxes if 
you call the correct place. 
If you live far from any wrecking/scrap yard, there may be a towing fee. 

Tom Keenan

 On Jan 13, 2015, at 5:04 PM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer.  So
 I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car.  What's
 the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard?  Do you have to
 pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands
 for whatever remaining parts it may have?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Bill
 
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Re: [EVDL] Damaged ADC FB1-4001A Motor

[Tom Keenan via EV]

It sounds to me like an overspeed. One or more of the individual commutator 
segments has broken free of the bonding. Although it may be possible to rewind 
the motor, a replacement may be the less expensive/most reliable route. 
If only the commutator is damaged (one or two bars lifted under the brushes) 
you may be able to get by with turning the commutator and strengthening with 
Kevlar tape. Best to check with a competent and local motor shop. 

Tom Keenan

 On Mar 4, 2015, at 8:33 AM, Ted Lowe, FVEAA via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 Hi EVers,
 
 i have a 1992 S-10 conversion i've been driving for 14 years.  It has an ADC 
 FB1-4001A 9 motor.
 
 Last year i made a mistake and over-spun the motor with the clutch activated. 
  The motor made a big nasty mechanical sound and i thought i would be walking 
 home from there.  But the motor still works as long as i keep the RPMs down 
 (perhaps below 2000).If i go above that RPM, the banging sound happen 
 again.  i realize i'm driving 'on borrowed time' and want to get the motor 
 fixed/rebuilt.
 
 So my questions are:
 
 1) What is likely damaged inside?
 2) What would be involved in getting it repaired?
 3) What kind of parts and costs are likely involved?
 4) Can this be a DIY project for a handy person?
 
 Thank you!
 
 Kind regards,
 ted
 
 
 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Utilities seek larger part in charging station rollout

[Tom Keenan via EV]

 In the Southeast, Southern Co.'s Georgia Power subsidiary is spending
 $12 million on a pilot program to install as many as 50 public EV charging
 stations by the end of 2016 (EnergyWire, March 5).

That's $240,000 per station.   Hopefully they will be installed where they are 
truly needed...

Tom Keenan
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Re: [EVDL] Easy EV Comparison - The Enemy is Us?

[Tom Keenan via EV]

 It'll mostly be an all-electric vehicle -- to the point that, as with Volt 
 owners, save for road trips, I'll have to pay attention to not letting the 
 gasoline get stale in the tank.

In speaking with Volt manufacturer reps, they say that the Volt engineers 
thought of that as well.  They programmed the vehicle to turn on the engine 
(while driving - may take several trips if they are short) and use a good 
portion of the fuel if it detects that it hasn't been fueled in a year.  

Apparently, even the most conscientious Volt owner will have to go to the gas 
station and fill up every once in a while.  

Tom Keenan
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Re: [EVDL] Last call for LeSled

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I can understand the lack of potential conversion buyers.  My present EV, a 
1989 Ford Escort converted by a company in Santa Rosa, was on sale at one point 
for $2,000 but it never sold. Ultimately, the owner put it up for grabs on the 
local EAA list.  I put a set of new lead acid batteries in, and it has been 
relatively trouble free for the past three years.  It has had its share of 
mechanical problems, but it is a 1989 Ford Escort at heart.

The big quandary for my EV will come in a year or so when it needs another 
battery pack.  Does one spend over $8,000 to upgrade to a marginal lithium 
pack, charger, and BMS, or $2,500 on a lead acid pack that will work, but with 
the lackluster performance it has always had just to drive it a few thousand 
miles for the next few years?

Putting $8,000 into a battery pack for an old, and otherwise unremarkable car 
would seem to be the height of folly, particularly when modern but used, 
factory made EVs (Leaf, iMiEV) can be had for just a bit more.

Tom Keenan

 On Jun 14, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 
 
 This is the state of used home built EVs.  No interest.  The parts in this 
 vehicle are worth 10 k.  What a shame.  With the right pack this vehicle out 
 range and perform any factory EV.  It will also be better when the factory EV 
 is broken as it will be fixable by the owner or any ev converter.  The 
 factory ev will cost big bucks to fix.  When people realize this 
 conversations will rise in value.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Comuta-Car PbSO4 batteries

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Another thing to consider when getting batteries is the overall height, 
including terminal posts.  There isn't much room height-wise in the bumpers 
where the batteries are located. Will the 8v batteries have the same physical 
dimension as the T-105?  The batteries nearest the ends of the Comutacar will 
have less of a problem, but the inboard batteries have a metal frame right 
above some of the terminals.
Changing from eight 6v to six 8v batteries to keep 48v may create too much room 
in the battery boxes, as they were designed to be more or less crammed in place 
and held down with a single bolt in the center of the four batteries, with the 
edges of the box keeping the square arrangement in line.
The charger in stock Comutacars is somewhat underpowered because there is 
another charging system for the 12v system battery that lives under the 
driver's seat.  If memory serves, the 48v charger puts out about 20 amps (~1kW) 
compared to the Lester chargers in older Citicars that put out about 25 amps 
(~1.2 kW). Both use about 14-15 amps from the wall plug, and the chargers are 
very sensitive to input voltage. If a normal 120 - 125 volts is present at the 
plug when charging, they would charge relatively quickly.  If the wiring wasn't 
up to spec, or the pole transformer was set low, (perhaps 110 to 115 volts) 
they would take forever to finish a charge, and would probably not get a good 
finish charge because they ended below 60 volts.
If the new buyer goes down to 36 volts (6 6v batteries) they will need a 
different charger, and the top speed will be reduced significantly, from about 
35 mph for 48v to 28 mph at 36 volts.  

Tom Keenan
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Re: [EVDL] Extra ground wires on Nissan Leaf J1772 inlet & cable?

[Tom Keenan via EV]

If I remember correctly, the charging area was unlighted until the 2013 model 
year. There is a LED light between the CHaDeMo port and the J1772 inlet on 2013 
and newer model years.  Not sure if the J1772 wiring involved anything with the 
lighting setup.  

Tom Keenan

> On Nov 14, 2015, at 7:54 PM, Jay Summet via EV  wrote:
> 
> The charging "bay/door area" on the Leaf is lighted, but that light is in a 
> different location and separate from the actual inlet.
> 
> I don't see any LED's/lights inside the inlet itself (and I can't find any 
> other wires for LED's (unless they are powered by the pilot/proximity lines 
> themselves...)
> 
> Jay
> 
>> On 11/14/2015 10:02 PM, Alan Arrison via EV wrote:
>> Jay, is the inlet lighted?
>> Could it be ground returns for LED's?
>> 
>> Al
>> 
>>> On 11/12/2015 9:34 PM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:
>>> I've taken the J1772 inlet & cable from my salvaged (2013) Nissan Leaf
>>> and am planning on connecting it up to the new charger for my S-10
>>> pickup truck conversion.
>>> 
>>> It has the standard 5 pins (Hot/Hot/Ground/Proximity/Pilot). The two
>>> hots connect to two large orange wires. The  Proximity/Pilot connect
>>> to two small wires that come out of the harness close to the inlet.
>>> 
>>> However, there are THREE green wires that emerge from the back end of
>>> the harness. One large, which is connected to the ground pin on the
>>> J1772 inlet, and two other smaller green wires that are connected to
>>> the large green wire via a shared ring terminal.  I don't know what
>>> these two small green wires go to, but it's not any of the pins on the
>>> J1772 inlet!
>>> 
>>> When I disconnected them from the ring terminal, they do not have
>>> connectivity to any of the other wires, or to any of the pins on the
>>> inlet.  As far as I can tell, they just go into the harness heading
>>> towards the inlet and disappear!
>>> 
>>> The only thing I can think of is that they are routed near to the HOT
>>> wires in such a way that if the hot wires are compromised they may
>>> short out to ground?
>>> 
>>> Has anybody got a definitive answer to what these two guys are for?
>>> I can post photos of them if you want to see, but I figure that
>>> anybody who already knows the answer won't need the photos
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jay
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: I have a Tesla and I didn’t even know that’s an electric car

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Perhaps I'm the one out of touch - like most celebrities, I've never heard of 
her until this article.

Tom Keenan

 On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:06 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 
 
 http://www.celebritycarsblog.com/2015/08/chelsea-handler-tesla/
 Chelsea Handler Owns a Tesla but Doesn’t Know How it Works
 [2015-08-14]  ht2 Anders
 
 [image  / @chelseahandler
 http://cdn.celebritycarsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/Chelsea-Handler-Tesla.jpg
 Chelsea Handler Tesla   a photo Chelsea shared of her dog sitting in the
 back of her Tesla
 ]
 
 Chelsea Handler's jumped on the celebrity bandwagon by driving around in a
 new Tesla Model S. Unfortunately, we're really disappointed by a quote we
 found from Chelsea saying, I have a Tesla and I didn’t even know that’s an
 electric car. I mean, I know it’s an electric car, but I never put two and
 two together that it didn’t need gas. #SMH.
 
 
 comment:
 Koenigsegg says:  August 17, 2015 at 10:59 am 
 probably just joking, or she really isnt and had her people charging it up
 without her knowing and she never drove it and ran out of charge lol
 regardless she loves it more than her bentley which she sold for it.
 [© celebritycarsblog.com]
 
 
 
 [dated]
 http://mashable.com/2015/07/28/chelsea-handler-silicon-valley/
 Elon Musk is scared of Chelsea Handler, according to Chelsea ...
 By Sandra Gonzalez  Jul 28, 2015
 
 LOS ANGELES — Chelsea Handler has a bone to pick with Elon Musk, and she
 planned to do so when filming her upcoming Netflix documentary about Silicon
 Valley. There was just one problem: He didn't want to talk. 
 
 We were trying to get Elon Musk, but I think he's scared of me, said
 Handler, speaking to press at the Television Critics Association press tour
 after a panel. I don't blame him, actually. I might actually rip him a new
 one because my Tesla is acting a little funky.
 
 And she means that literally. 
 It just doesn't get me to the right place at the right time when it says,
 Handler says. Listen, this is supposed to be the best car in the world. The
 guy screwed me over. ...
 ...
 http://www.thewrap.com/chelsea-handler-opens-up-on-e-netflix-going-topless-at-twitter-hq-at-the-2015-power-women-breakfast-in-san-francisco/
 Chelsea Handler Opens Up on E!, Netflix, Going Topless At Twitter HQ at the
 2015 Power Women Breakfast in San Francisco
 By Lia Haberman  May 8, 2015 ... While speaking to a room full of tech-savvy
 women who were live-tweeting the event, Handler admitted “I don’t know
 anything. I drive a Tesla and don’t know how it operates. I can’t turn
 anything on in my house. I’m not stupid but as far as that goes I don’t have
 the patience.” ...
 ...
 http://www.ew.com/article/2014/09/11/chelsea-handler-netflix-interview
 Chelsea Handler on Netflix series: 'Enough with the celebrities'
 by Stephan Lee  Sep 11, 2014 ... A big part of the show is talking about how
 ridiculous my lifestyle has become. Before you know it, you have all these
 people working for you when you’re doing a show every day and you’re on the
 road and you have people who are doing the most simple things for you. I
 went to go get gas in my car one weekend because I was like, “I have to go
 to a gas station, this is getting ridiculous, I haven’t been to a gas
 station in years.” My assistant just looked at me and went, “All right.”
 First of all, I have a Tesla and I didn’t even know that’s an electric car.
 I mean, I know it’s an electric car, but I never put two and two together
 that it didn’t need gas. People say, “Oh, you can’t talk about how out of
 touch with reality you are,” but I’m like, “I have to! That’s what’s
 happened.” I hate the idea of pretending that’s not what my life is. That a
 lie, and obviously I’m not lying about much. My heart’s in the right place,
 I just can’t really execute anything properly ...
 ...
 http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/archive/index.php/t-7532-p-2.html
 ... jaanton 2013-05-24, 08:06 AM  Last night on Chelsea Lately, Chelsea
 Handler said she was selling her Bentley for a Tesla S ...
 
 
 
 
 For EVLN posts use:
 http://evdl.org/evln/
 
 http://www.autoevolution.com/news/deadmau5-is-going-green-with-his-tesla-model-s-p85d-98800.html
 The Insane Mode made bragging DJ Deadmau5 buy a Tesla-S P85D EV
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadmau5
 
 http://mashable.com/2015/08/21/tesla-retail-apparel/
 Tesla offers high-end clothing, accessories made from car interior
 
 http://www.chinookobserver.com/co/business/20150818/charge-your-electric-car-at-shelburne
 L2  HPWC EVSE @theshelburneinn.com Seaview-WA
 http://www.chinookobserver.com/storyimage/CO/20150818/ARTICLE/150819950/AR/0/AR-150819950.jpg
 +
 EVLN: Doug-George.ca loves his Tesla-S and Roadster EVs
 
 
 {brucedp.150m.com}
 
 
 
 --
 View this message in context: 
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-I-have-a-Tesla-and-I-didn-t-even-know-that-s-an-electric-car-tp4677305.html
 Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list 

Re: [EVDL] EVLN status ... feast or famine> sign of the times

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Hi Bruce,
Thanks for going through all the articles and posting the best.  I do a similar 
function for my 'day job', so my appreciation for what you do is that much 
greater.

My daughter likes the combination of a Verizon iPhone and a tethered iPad for 
connectivity.  I have ATT, and the connectivity isn't as good much of the time. 
 Not sure if either system is what you're looking for. 

Have a great week!

Tom Keenan

> On Dec 8, 2015, at 5:05 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
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Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!)

[Tom Keenan via EV]

About two years ago, I asked a gas station/convenience store owner what the 
normal amounts of electricity they used were, and he said about 350 kWh in 
summer, and 250 kWh in the winter. (Natural gas heating). I asked if this was 
for an entire month, and me said no, that was the amount used for a single day! 
 He showed his power bill as proof.  I was quite surprised, as my house uses 
roughly that amount per month. 

Granted, most of the energy was used for beverage and food coolers (about a 
dozen) and air conditioning. He estimated that the eight gasoline and two 
diesel dispensers and lift pumps was about a quarter of the total energy use 
for his station. 

If one considers this a typical store/gas station, and it serves perhaps 2,000 
vehicles a day, each vehicle's share of energy is between 125 and 175 Watt-hours
(0.125 to 0.175 kWh) when they fuel up.  This takes into account their 'use' of 
powering the store, whether they buy soda and cigarettes or not. 

Obviously, energy used at a gas station is only a small part of the equation- 
extraction, transport, and refining of crude oil use vastly more amounts of 
energy in the whole petroleum cycle.  The total energy used per vehicle would 
need to include that power used as well. 

Thought of another way, if the station were to go away (due to customer 
attrition)  there would be an additional 250 to 350 kWh available per day for 
the grid to power plug-in vehicles.  At 250 Wh/mi, that would translate to 
1,000 to 1,400 miles per day of electric driving. Or enough miles/power to 
satisfy about 25 to 35 EVs doing forty-mile (round trip) commutes.   The gas 
station attrition model would appear to need to eliminate about 2,000 ICE 
vehicles to shut down one gas station. 

Feel free to check my math - done on an iPhone...

Tom Keenan

> On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> That would be interesting information.  I'll take a stab at an answer, based 
> on this EIA graph:
> 
> http://www.eia.gov/beta/MER/index.cfm?tbl=T02.01#/?f=A=21
> 
> Overall, it shows that commercial uses about 80% the amount of residential 
> (this is a visual interpretation).  The figure, from EIA, for residential is 
> 11MwH per year.  So, let's say the average commercial location uses 8.8MwH 
> per year.
> 
> https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97=3
> 
> Now for the EVs:  If the average EV uses 300wH = .3KwH (including 
> accessories, charging losses, etc.) per mile and the average driver goes 
> 2 miles per year, that's 6MwH of charging per year.
> 
> So, based on averages and some EV assumptions, the gas station uses enough 
> electricy to charge somewhere between 1 and 2 EVs.
> 
> Peri
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Sent: 04-Dec-15 6:47:23 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas 
> too!)
> 
>>> : MP Amber Rudd sez the UK grid too weak for 34M EVs
>>> BRITAIN’S electric car revolution could trigger blackouts by overloading
>>> our power network, senior Tories fear.
>> 
>> Typical right wing ignorance.
>> 
>> What happens when 50% of cars are EV's.  Then only 50% of the gas stations
>> remain operating.  How much ELECTRICITY does a gas station consume  My
>> wild a$$ guess is maybe the same as what it takes to charge 50 EV's.  Now
>> add up all the ELECTRIC savings by closing all those gas stations, and
>> turning off half the gasoline pipelines, and half of the gasoline
>> distribution system, and turning off HALF of all the electricity consumed
>> pumping gas ouit of the ground, etc, and I bet it’s a WASH!
>> 
>> Tonight I'm going to drop by my neighborhood gas station and see if the
>> owner will tell me his electric bill and even better, if he will tell me how
>> many cars he serves.  I DOUBT he will tell me anything about the number of
>> cars and the amount of gas since he is in EXTREME competition with the
>> statinon across the road, but maybe he will reveal the electric bill.
>> 
>> But we need this number.  GO get your local number and lets compare notes.
>> 
>> Bob
>> ---
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Repairs Needed

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I've made an open EVSE as well.  They work great.  Just make sure you get a 
main relay of sufficient capacity, as the first one I built only had a 20 amp / 
240v (4.8 kW) max.  Installing a 30 amp version takes the same amount of time 
and physical space, and only costs a few dollars more.

Tom Keenan

> On Dec 10, 2015, at 5:46 PM, Rick Beebe via EV  wrote:
> 
> If it was me and ClipperCreek didn't give me the response I wanted I'd take 
> out the board and replace it with an OpenEVSE. I've built two OpenEVSE units 
> and they've both worked flawlessly.
> 
> http://store.openevse.com/ and https://code.google.com/p/open-evse/
> 
> --Rick
> 
>> On 12/9/2015 4:46 PM, Steven Lough via EV wrote:
>> Afternoon EVDL,  from a very soggy Seattle:
>> 
>> Can any one REPAIR my ClipperCreek LSC-25 ?
>> 
>> It was on the north side of our home here in Seattle, where it has operated 
>> for over 2 years.,
>> and was out of harms way by weather for the most part.
>> 
>> But if any one has been following the Weather in the Pacific NW, we have 
>> hadFLOODS,  Mud Slides, and record rain fall.
>> 
>> So water finally got into the bottom of the unit.  And no amount of drying 
>> and cleaning has brought it back to LIFE.
>> 
>> Only an inch or so of the bottom of the circuit board was exposed to water, 
>> and ruined several components
>> 
>> Have not found any one who could replace or source the board. Have a inquiry 
>> into ClipperCreek.
>> 
>> A whole NEW unit is $379.  But the cord, the housing and alike are all OK.
>> Shame to buy a whole new unit for the lack of a new board.
>> 
>> Pictures of the Unit, and the damage at the bottom of the board can be seen 
>> at:
>> ( https://www.flickr.com/photos/23079348@N08/sets/72157662078004711/ )
>> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf. 2,600 original miles.

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Sounds like a great deal - congratulations!

Tom Keenan

> On Dec 26, 2015, at 5:39 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> I got a used Leaf for 14k 0 down & 0% for 60 months. First payment & money 
> out of pocket is in February.  It is pristine.  Did I do good?  Lawrence 
> Rhodes  
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Re: [EVDL] Question: L5-30P vs L6-30P

[Tom Keenan via EV]

If you look at the linked chart, the main difference is that the hot and 
neutral (two hots on the L6-30) are reversed, as far as width goes.  Because of 
the switched widths, they won't plug into the other voltage receptacle.  
https://frentzandsons.com/Hardware%20References/twistlockplugandreceptacle.htm

Tom Keenan

> On Jan 17, 2016, at 8:16 AM, Seth Rothenberg via EV  wrote:
> 
> I am assembling my OpenEVSE
> and contemplating the extension cords
> and adaptors I will need
> 
> When I decommissioned some old Sun servers
> a few years ago, I saved the power cords.
> 
> 30' with a 30 am 250 V locking plug on the end,
> To my eye, it seems to be identical
> to the 30a 125 V locking plug on the desk-side UPS
> that I got (from the same source :-)
> But they are labeled with different voltages.
> 
> Are these the same?   I could get a socket for
> one or both and see, but a link to more info
> would be great.
> 
> Thanks
> Seth
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Re: [EVDL] VW is claiming new EVs will use 48-volt systems

[Tom Keenan via EV]

48 volts does indeed seem low for a modern EV, particularly one that weighs 
more than 3,000 pounds and is expected to go more than 60 MPH.  
I had a 48vdc (nominal) Citicar (about 1350 pounds empty) a few years back. It 
would struggle to go over 35 MPH. With a 450 amp controller, there is about 29 
HP available.  For reference, a 1967 Beetle (about 1,800 pounds empty) had 
about twice the power available (53 hp), and they weren't exactly known for 
their acceleration or high speed prowess. 
Typical lithium cells have about a 3C discharge rate; 450 amps continuous would 
require 150Ah cells. Any discharge greater than 450 amps (in this 48v scenario) 
would need higher capacity cells, and physically larger cables and contactors.  
To increase power, it is easier and less expensive to increase voltage, rather 
than amperage. 
Based on the same physics, it would appear that any 48v system would only be 
useful as a parallel augmentation system in a hybrid vehicle, and not as a 
primary propulsion system in a vehicle intended for use on a modern freeway.  
My guess is that VW plans might include using  a 48v battery linked to a higher 
voltage inverter driving a 120v or so AC motor.  Even so, the stress on a 48v 
pack  feeding this sort of system would be significant. 
Using a 48v pack might have a legal precedent, aimed at keeping some 
regulations or specific legislation at bay, as 48v is not considered high 
voltage. 

Tom Keenan

> On Feb 6, 2016, at 7:18 PM, Paul Wujek via EV  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts on VW using 48-volt systems in planned EVs?
> 
> Here's an article that claims that number 
> (http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/05/volkswagen-golf-eighth-generation-information/#slide-endcap),
>  and I've seen others that repeat it.
> 
> This seems a very low voltage for a modern EV.
> 
> What kind of effects will this have on the design?
> -- 
> *Paul Wujek*  about 
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Re: [EVDL] The secrets of Avcon or smashing the hell out of a glued together claw.

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Is this similar?
http://www.tucsonev.com/EVIDS50.html

Tom Keenan

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 5:09 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:
> 
> Avcon was very through in star screw binding and gluing together the CLAW.  
> After application of mallet and screwdriver the insides were reveled.  
> Comparing the contact surfaces on the front to the back wires. Bottom.  
> Ground.  Center left.  Hot.  Center Right. Hot.  One from right.  Probably 
> pilot.  Right.  Maybe proximity if Avcon had that.  Colors of wire.  Green 
> Ground.  Black and Red.  Hot.  Blue is wired to the 14-50 plug as neutral. 
> More evidence of pilot. Green(small) might proximity but is unknown. I 
> couldn't find an Avcon pinout on the web. The small green wire seems to have 
> some function on Avcon.  If someone has the Avcon pinout that would be 
> helpful. Lawrence Rhodes
> 
> 
> http://s546.photobucket.com/user/larry94110/media/20160126_155410_3.jpg.html 
> scroll right or left to see all three photos.  One of the contacts and two of 
> the wires.  Clearly showing 5 contacts.  5 wires.  Green big.  Red. Black. 
> Blue and small green.
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Re: [EVDL] Disinformation: EVLN: Leaf EV is Still Better Than a Tesla

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Told from someone that has experienced the ride. A ride in a Leaf is nice, but 
driving a Tesla is on a totally different level. Hard to capture in words.

Tom Keenan

> On Apr 14, 2016, at 6:56 PM, Mike Nickerson via EV  wrote:
> 
> I have noticed, though, that attitudes towards electric vehicles change 
> significantly after a 15 minute ride in a Tesla Model S P85.  8>).
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
>> On April 14, 2016 2:48:01 PM MDT, EVDL Administrator via EV 
>>  wrote:
>>> On 14 Apr 2016 at 12:36, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>>> 
>>> We can always rely on the evdl's own testy,crotchety ol'-sourdough
>> (David) to
>>> not suffer ignorance.
>> 
>> I've been called a lot of things over the years, but "sourdough" is a
>> first. 
>> I kind of like that one.  ;-)
>> 
>> Though maybe it should be "crusty ol' sourdough."  Yeah, that's it.
>> 
>>> An EV would need a 300 miles range on a single charge for 56% of
>>> respondents to be willing to consider purchasing one.
>> 
>> You have it right.  When 300 mile range is common, they'll insist that
>> they 
>> need 400 miles.  
>> 
>> The surveys may be accurate, but IMO it's an excuse.  The respondents
>> can't 
>> seem to let themselves say "No special reason, I just don't want one." 
>> 
>> Similarly, for years I've had friends who thought that EVs were a great
>> idea 
>> - for someone else.
>> 
>> There are people who by custom don't make rational buying decisions, 
>> especially for vehicles, and thus can't be convinced through reason
>> that a 
>> EV might be a good (better) solution for them.  The paid-for negative
>> media 
>> blitz just reinforces these attitudes.
>> 
>> It reminds me of the exchange I witnessed in one of the big box home
>> stores 
>> several years ago.  An older couple were shopping for a weed whacker
>> type 
>> trimmer.  The male half, a slim, well-dressed, soft-spoken gentleman, 
>> quietly suggested, "Here's an electric one."  The female half, loud,
>> large, 
>> and loutish, practically shouted, "No!  We ain't gettin' no 'lectric
>> s**t."
>> 
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EVDL Administrator
>> 
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
>> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
>> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> 
>> 
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[EVDL] Engineered “Sand” May Help Cool Electronic Devices

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I imagine this can have application in battery and inverter/charger/controller 
thermal management.  
http://www.techbriefs.com/component/content/article/1198-ntb/news/news/25219
If it works as advertised, it might save some weight in reduced coolant volume 
needed. 

Tom Keenan
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Re: [EVDL] HPGC AC-31-01 Diagram or Manual

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I also have an older DC powered conversion with a clutch. I've found that 
shifting with the clutch is much faster and much more forgiving.  I've driven 
it 'clutchless' a couple of times as an exercise, but found it to be very slow 
to shift with the foot off the clutch.  Matching motor speed with selected gear 
normally results in time wasted between gears waiting for the motor to wind 
down - traffic behind becomes very intolerant if you miss the split second 
between go and no-go. 
Tougher on hills because the vehicle may slow down to almost nothing before the 
motor winds down enough to shift clutchless. Then you are back to square one 
(first gear again).
However, since AC motors have a much wider RPM operating range, frequent 
shifting isn't really necessary as with most DC motor conversions. 
One conversion I've seen with an AC motor was a clutchless Geo Metro 
(Solectria). The AC motor twisted off the transmission input shaft in that 
particular vehicle twice, requiring a transmission replacement both times. 
Might be a poorly matched transmission design, or it might be that the clutch 
provides a bit of overtorque protection. 
Based on what I've seen and operated for the last few years, I'd recommend 
retaining the clutch.  If you have a clutch-type conversion of any type 
available to test drive in your area, try to drive it both ways to see what 
fits your driving style before you commit. 

Tom Keenan

> On Jan 29, 2017, at 4:59 PM, Jay Summet via EV  wrote:
> 
> I have an S-10 conversion with the clutch left out, and you certainly can 
> shift it without the clutch. But the shifts take several seconds as you wait 
> for the motor to sync up in speed, and the time I spend coasting, unless 
> planned well in advance to be going down a hill, etc, can cause cars to ride 
> up on me.
> 
> If I were do another conversion, I would probably leave the clutch in, 
> despite the efficiency hit, just so that you can shift quickly. That way you 
> could start in 1st and shift to 2nd quickly, instead of using extra amps to 
> start up (slowly) in 2nd.
> 
> I have a DC motor, so I find myself shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear around 
> 40 MPH. Perhaps with an AC motor that has a larger RPM range you could get 
> 0-50 which would be fine for all city driving, or even 0-60 MPH in one gear 
> and shifting wouldn't be much of an issue.
> 
> Jay
> 
>> On 01/29/2017 05:24 PM, Cruisin via EV wrote:
>> It doesn't surprise me of the lack of support from HPEVS. maybe their door is
>> locked
>> Regarding the AC-31 which I have a lot of experience with, the motor already
>> has a
>> front bearing. The information you received from the seller of the motor is
>> false. Do your
>> conversion but leave out the flywheel and clutch assembly. If you want to
>> shift, it can be done
>> without a clutch as long as you are not using regeneration, else you will
>> have to feather the
>> accelerator during the shift. NO CLUTCH NEEDED.

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Re: [EVDL] MAXIMUM VOLTAGE: Curtis 1238-6501

[Tom Keenan via EV]

The 1238-6501 uses 48 to 80 volts DC (nominal). The voltage of the pack will 
likely be a bit higher than the nominal rating. 
As an example, a 48 volt (nominal) lead acid pack might have a fully charged 
resting voltage around 52.5 volts, and similar 72 volt pack would have a 
resting voltage just under 80 volts. If someone made up an 80 volt pack, the 
resting voltage would be about 88 volts or so. 

That being said, what is more important is the highest voltage expected on the 
system. This will happen when the battery pack is being charged. The maximum 
voltage on a 72 volt pack while finishing a charge is about 92 to 96 volts, or 
about 100 to 104 volts on an 80 volt lead acid system. These are approximate 
numbers. (finishing/equalizing voltage varies by battery manufacturer, and 
occasionally by charger programming facility). 

The highest potential charging voltage for an 80 volt nominal system is close 
to the 108 volt number you have - I would consider that to be an absolute 
maximum voltage that is encountered on rare occasions.

Anything higher than an '80 volt' pack risks popping this controller. Staying 
with 72 volts max (nominal) will give you a good safety margin and longer 
controller life. 

Tom Keenan

> On Feb 20, 2017, at 10:17 AM, m gol via EV  wrote:
> 
> Hello
> 
> What is the maximum voltage of a Curtis 1238-6501 controller?
> 
> EVWest is telling me 75 volts, but I have heard 108volts?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Michael

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Re: [EVDL] Used EV's for sale on Autotrader

[Tom Keenan via EV]

A big part of the increased availability of used EVs is that most electrics 
(according to an October 2015 CNBC article, around 80% in 2013 and 2014, 
currently around 75%) are leased as opposed to sold outright. This compares 
with about 28% of ICE vehicles being leased.  As these three-year leases end, 
they are either auctioned off or sold by the dealership they were returned to. 
I haven't seen any data yet on the 'loyalty' rate of lease returnees either 
getting another EV or getting oil regressing back to fossil fuel.

Tom Keenan

> On Aug 21, 2016, at 1:43 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 21 Aug 2016 at 0:28, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>> 
>> Bob is right there are a lot of used EVs out there.
> 
> Do we know what that means?  Does it mean that a lot of people bought EVs, 
> and then decided they didn't like them, or they didn't work for them?  Did 
> they then go back to ICEVs?  
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Na Researchers reveal 650mi on single-charge Tesla 'superbatteries'

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Perhaps the next thing in charging will be to post a sign at the charge station 
with a $/kWh sign - somewhat like $/gallon at gas stations. Could be different 
prices for L2 and fast charging. Once there are enough  charging stations in an 
area, drivers could choose based on price they see, rather than poking around a 
smartphone app and trying to decipher the various charges online. Might make 
the cost of charging more competitive and less random.

Tom Keenan

> On Sep 14, 2016, at 3:50 AM, paul dove via EV  wrote:
> 
> Hey Lawrence, 
> 
> Yeah I don't believe that is true. Their may be some game by reducing weight 
> I don't think aerodynamics is going to play into it unless it's a sports car. 
> Most people purchase a car
> For other reasons then economy. Comfort, utility, whatever fits their 
> lifestyle. Weight is the greatest factor in the range of your vehicle. I have 
> two electric vehicles and they both follow the rule of thumb weight/10 = 
> watts per mile. This changes based on how you drive but that's the average 
> again. I believe battery technology will continue to improve for another 10 
> years. I think the bigger problem is the charging infrastructure. The cars 
> are good enough now and the batteries are good enough now there's just a 
> shortage of places to charge. They shouldn't start charging stations at every 
> gas station preferably fast chargers.they need to quit giving away free 
> energy and start charging for the electricity so that the stations are 
> reliable and maintained by someone making a profit. Then there would be no 
> obstacle as to where you could drive your car and that's coming I'm sure of 
> that.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 12, 2016, at 10:10 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Clearly the next frontier in electric automobile design is not the battery 
>> but the efficiency of the vehicle.  If it is lighter and more aerodynamic 
>> this will allow the use of smaller packs and longer range.  With smaller 
>> packs the charging time is reduced taking away the #1 problem with electric 
>> cars.  The charging time.  Currently Solar Cars from the Tesla Crusier Class 
>> at the World Solar challenge with out solar assistance have a 400 mile range 
>> on 15kw of batteries.  Of course the vehicles weigh under 1000 pounds have 
>> seating for four and the tires are very narrow.  I've been in Stella.  It is 
>> comfortable and practical.  The next electric vehicle I build will be light 
>> and efficient.  Lawrence Rhodes.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Na Researchers reveal 650mi on single-charge Tesla 'superbatteries'

[Tom Keenan via EV]

It would billed by kWh (amount of energy delivered). There would likely be an 
increased cost for fast charging (higher power charging = more kW) because fast 
charging may be more convenient in some situations. But ultimately the final 
cost would depend on amount delivered. 

Tom Keenan

> On Sep 14, 2016, at 7:47 AM, Mark Abramowitz <ma...@enviropolicy.com> wrote:
> 
> Why kWh, and not kW?
> 
> Sent from AltaMail
> 
> 
>> 
>> From:Tom Keenan via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>> To:  paul dove <dov...@bellsouth.net>,   Electric Vehicle Discussion 
>> List <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>> CC:  Lawrence Rhodes <primobass...@sbcglobal.net>
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Na Researchers reveal 650mi on single-charge 
>> Tesla 'superbatteries'
>> Date:9/14/16, 7:08 AM
>> 
>> 
>> Perhaps the next thing in charging will be to post a sign at the charge 
>> station with a $/kWh sign - somewhat like $/gallon at gas stations. Could be 
>> different prices for L2 and fast charging. Once there are enough charging 
>> stations in an area, drivers could choose based on price they see, rather 
>> than poking around a smartphone app and trying to decipher the various 
>> charges online. Might make the cost of charging more competitive and less 
>> random. 
>> 
>> Tom Keenan 
>> 
>> > On Sep 14, 2016, at 3:50 AM, paul dove via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: 
>> > 
>> > Hey Lawrence, 
>> > 
>> > Yeah I don't believe that is true. Their may be some game by reducing 
>> > weight I don't think aerodynamics is going to play into it unless it's a 
>> > sports car. Most people purchase a car 
>> > For other reasons then economy. Comfort, utility, whatever fits their 
>> > lifestyle. Weight is the greatest factor in the range of your vehicle. I 
>> > have two electric vehicles and they both follow the rule of thumb 
>> > weight/10 = watts per mile. This changes based on how you drive but that's 
>> > the average again. I believe battery technology will continue to improve 
>> > for another 10 years. I think the bigger problem is the charging 
>> > infrastructure. The cars are good enough now and the batteries are good 
>> > enough now there's just a shortage of places to charge. They shouldn't 
>> > start charging stations at every gas station preferably fast chargers.they 
>> > need to quit giving away free energy and start charging for the 
>> > electricity so that the stations are reliable and maintained by someone 
>> > making a profit. Then there would be no obstacle as to where you could 
>> > drive your car and that's coming I'm sure of that. 
>> > Sent from my iPhone 
>> > 
>> >> On Sep 12, 2016, at 10:10 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
>> >> wrote: 
>> >> 
>> >> Clearly the next frontier in electric automobile design is not the 
>> >> battery but the efficiency of the vehicle. If it is lighter and more 
>> >> aerodynamic this will allow the use of smaller packs and longer range. 
>> >> With smaller packs the charging time is reduced taking away the #1 
>> >> problem with electric cars. The charging time. Currently Solar Cars from 
>> >> the Tesla Crusier Class at the World Solar challenge with out solar 
>> >> assistance have a 400 mile range on 15kw of batteries. Of course the 
>> >> vehicles weigh under 1000 pounds have seating for four and the tires are 
>> >> very narrow. I've been in Stella. It is comfortable and practical. The 
>> >> next electric vehicle I build will be light and efficient. 
>> 
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Re: [EVDL] New EV world record set

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Yep - setting an EV record in a Mirai is kind of like saying they broke the 
'all electric' mileage record with a Volt or Prius Plug in. Just has a 
different type of generator on board. Probably why the tease line and the 
cryptic URL without referencing that it was really a fuel cell advertisement - 
hoping to get a few congratulations before anyone checked. 

Tom Keenan

> On Sep 26, 2016, at 4:16 PM, Willie2 via EV  wrote:
> 
>> On 09/26/2016 06:00 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
>> That is interesting, too bad it is irrelevant since Hydrogen passenger
>> cars are not viable, but we have been over that before so I won't start
>> that again.
>> It is just sad that so many millions of dollars are wasted on this,
>> instead of pushing the current viable technologies further ahead.
>> Oh well, eventually we'll all see the light, time will tell what will
>> come out ahead.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Abramowitz
>> via EV
>> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 1:54 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: [EVDL] New EV world record set
>> 
>> 
>> 1,438 all-electric miles in 24 hours!
>> 
>> http://vrl.ht/3r3Rf
>> 
> About a year ago, I covered about 1500 miles in about 35 hours in my Tesla.  
> One driver.  I napped during charges.  I did some slow driving when I 
> mis-estimated my energy needs for a couple of legs. I believe an average of 
> about 60 mph is possible with only moderately illegal speeds.  Two drivers 
> would make things go more smoothly.  And a navigator to avoid energy 
> estimation blunders.
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Re: [EVDL] Electronics help anyone

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I ended up replacing the bi-metal 'voltage regulator' with a solid state 7805 
(if memory serves) to provide voltage to the fuel gauge and the temperature 
gauge (I use an OEM temp sending unit attached to the motor case). Works fine 
with the ZEVA unit on the '89 style gauges. 

Tom Keenan

> On Oct 26, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Cor van de Water via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> Reason your resistor goes up in smoke at the end of the scale
> is that the display of the tank level takes quite a bit of power,
> the (cheap and rugged) way Ford did this was using a bi-metal to
> drive the needle and a *heater* to control the position of the needle
> by bending the bi-metal due to it getting warm.
> So, if it requires say 1/4 Amp at the minimum resistance of the heater
> then the resistor may need to be able to dissipate 2 Watts or burn up
> if it is too light...
> You should be able to drive the needle by outputting a voltage, probably
> the easiest is a PWM controlled output, with the duty cycle controlling
> the position of the needle. 
> No resistors needed. But you are likely to see that the PWM must stay
> below
> about 50% duty cycle or it overheats the bi-metal (needle in the corner)
> so set the start (empty) and end (full) PWM limits accordingly.
> 
> Success!
> 
> Cor van de Water 
> Chief Scientist 
> Proxim Wireless 
> 
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 
> 
> http://www.proxim.com
> 
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT via EV
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 3:21 PM
> To: Bill Collins; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electronics help anyone
> 
> So.  What does it matter?  Did the PCM drive the gauge or did the tank
> sensor?  Look at the vehicle wiring diagram.  If the sensor came to the
> PCM, and the PCM output a signal to the gauge then you will never figure
> out the PCM signal type or level.  The PCM is gone.  Look at what you
> have at present  a gauge and Amp transmitter and determine their
> signal requirements.  Do not guess ... get the spec or you may damage
> the devices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: EV  on behalf of Bill Collins via EV
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 11:33 AM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electronics help anyone
> 
> 
> The PCM probably had a resistor to a regulated voltage source, so that
> the tank
> sender produced a varying voltage instead of just a resistance.
> 
> Bill
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Re: [EVDL] 2015 Chevrolet Spark EV Code Reader Scanner OBD2

[Tom Keenan via EV]

If GM goes the same route as did Nissan with the Leaf, the OBD2 port will 
likely be used for monitoring the CAN buses. That being said, there may place 
some info on OBD2 about non-engine related codes, such as ABS, entertainment, 
and other common systems that interface with the vehicle's onboard computers. 
There are multiple threads on the mynissanleaf forum on the topic; here is a 
recent one asking a similar question about OBD 2: 
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=20210

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=20210

Tom Keenan

> On Nov 24, 2016, at 12:17 AM, Michael Ross via EV  wrote:
> 
> obd1 & 2 are all about emissions monitoring and reportage.
> 
> I would be interested to know if obd2 scanners are useful at all on EVs.
> Don't know, sort of doubt it. There is a guy Rick Sapienza at the NC Clean
> Energy Technology Center who might know or know who knows
> https://nccleantech.ncsu.edu/about-ncsc/staff/char/S/
> 
> On Nov 23, 2016 6:45 PM, "EVDL Administrator via EV" 
> wrote:
> 
>>> On 23 Nov 2016 at 18:29, Mark Hanson via EV wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi folks does anyone have any experience with using this on the Spark EV
>> to
>>> measure individual cells and fault codes?
>> 
>> I don't, sorry.  However, the linked Ebay sales page seems to be offering
>> completely generic OBD1 and OBD2 code readers, with no indication that
>> either supports any EV functionality whatsoever.
>> 
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EVDL Administrator
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Re: [EVDL] Electronics help anyone

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I have a similar device in my old Electron Ford Escort - a ZEVA fuel gauge 
driver plus. It works quite well with the old Ford analog gauges. 
http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=144
You might try their setup file - might be the same device as the one you have, 
just made in Australia. 
Tom Keenan

> On Oct 25, 2016, at 1:05 PM, Rick Beebe via EV  wrote:
> 
> I have a 1998 Ford Ranger (http://evalbum.com/4674) that I bought as a
> lead-acid EV and converted it to Lithium. In the process I replaced
> almost everything. I bought an AutoblockAMP from RechargeCar (sadly,
> discontinued). It's a slick hall-effect current sensor that measures
> current and counts amp-hours. It outputs a pulsed signal to show amps on
> a tach (works great). It has another line that puts out 12v to light up
> a "low battery" light at some specified threshold and a third one that,
> I believe, uses PWM to ground to simulate a variable resister to drive
> the fuel gauge to show SOC.
> 
> I have the service manual for the truck and indeed it shows a single
> wire from the gauge to the sensor in the tank. 22ohms empty and 240ohms
> full (that's from memory so don't quote me). The problem is it doesn't
> work. Connecting that wire to ground through any resistance does
> nothing. The engine computer (PCM) was removed during the initial
> conversion. The fuel sensor wire also went to the PCM but I don't see
> anything in the wiring diagram that should influence the gauge. What I
> have discovered is that I can make the gauge work by supplying voltage
> rather than a connection to ground. 2volts is empty and 9volts is full.
> 
> I haven't got a clue as to the piece of magic that the PCM (or some
> other wire) must have provided such that the gauge is now "backwards."
> So I've tried seeing if I can convert the AutoblockAMP signal. My first
> attempt was to use it as 1/2 of a voltage divider and that sort-of
> worked except for finding the right value to drive the gauge full scale.
> Plus  if, while I'm adjusting the ABAMP and I get too close to one end
> of the scale the resister burns up. My second attempt, thinking it was a
> PWM signal, was to use a PNP mosfet. That looked promising but isn't
> driving the gauge linearly enough. It goes from full to empty in the
> first quarter of the SOC.
> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Charging station with amps watts and KWh

[Tom Keenan via EV]

We built up about a dozen kits that day - my EVSE is still working well also. 
If anyone is interested in having another build party, I'm sure it can be 
arranged.  They take at most about three or four hours to put together. Faster 
folks might take an hour. 

Tom Keenan

> On Dec 3, 2016, at 7:02 AM, tomw via EV  wrote:
> 
> I think it was list member Tom Keene who organized a build of these around 5
> years ago at their EAA chapter's meeting place in Alameda CA.  I was one of
> the attendees who built a kit. It's still working well.
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Charging-station-with-amps-watts-and-KWh-tp4684701p4684721.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Back then the Citicar was competing with ICE cars like the Pinto and the Vega. 
Either could be had for about $3,600 in 1976. The Citicar was about $1,000 
higher at about $4,600. 

Tom Keenan

> On Jan 1, 2017, at 10:26 AM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> 
> EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>>> The result is a vehicle that closely resembles the Isetta of old, just
>>> a bit bigger and rounder...
> 
>> This is a pretty good start... The problem is the price... Make it cute,
>> make it fun... and make it cheap.
> 
> I think that is what Bob Beaumont and Bob Rice were after with the CitiCar. 
> Simple as dirt, fun to drive, and so ugly it's cute. And, it was the cheapest 
> car in America! This is why they sold thousands of the little buggers.
> 
> The problem is that it was such a tiny company that they couldn't afford to 
> put the quality into it. Great idea; poor implementation.
> 
> -- 
> Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
> Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
> implement, test, and execute!
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] Shorted FB1-4001A DC motor?

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I have a similarly sized GE motor, and it takes about 30 amps to run with no 
load. However, it overheats my 30 amp power supply if used for too long, and 
the motor needs about 50 amps to start turning.  You can start them
with a 12v battery in parallel with the power supply for a few seconds if the 
PS won't start it on its own. 
One older EV I had failed due to a commutator crossover link short to the motor 
case inside the motor.   Made a lot of copper snot when it violently melted at 
about 40 mph. But ultimately repairable
for relatively cheap. 
You should not have a low resistance reading between the case and any field or 
comm winding terminals; if so it might indicate a problem. Higher resistance 
usually indicates carbon dust inside the motor, and open rarely is seen on a 
well used DC motor. Low resistance between field terminals, or between winding 
terminals is OK (in general - but doesn't rule out a short). 
My present EV blew a fuse once due to water getting into the charger after a 
hard rain (a real oddball). 
One other item to check - There is the possibility that one of your HV cables 
has rubbed through the insulation, and is shorting to another HV cable or the 
vehicle frame someplace. 

Tom Keenan

> On Dec 27, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Jay Summet via EV  wrote:
> 
> Hurm, that is interesting. I figured the 0.1 ohm was way too low, but if
> that is in the generally correct range there is a possibility that it
> was just a bad fusebut I really don't want to test by blowing
> another fuse if there is a cheaper alternative ;>
> 
> How many amps do you think I should fuse a 12 volt battery at to try and
> spin the motor in neutral?
> 
> (I have a 3 amp 30 volt bench power supply...would 90 watts be enough to
> make it turn at all in neutral?)
> 
> I haven't looked at the brushes yet, I'll probably want to tow it home first 
> (it's only about 1/2 mile away as this happened about 1 minute after I left).
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
>> On 12/27/2016 02:24 PM, Ben Apollonio wrote:
>> I'm pretty sure terminal resistance is supposed to be 0.03 ohms so a
>> normal ohmmeter won't tell you much...  How about spin the motor in
>> neutral with a (fused) 12V battery?  Any signs of arcing on the
>> commutator?
>> 
>> -Ben
>> 
>> On Dec 27, 2016, at 1:13 PM, Jay Summet via EV 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Today my HV fuse blew, and after testing my controller, I believe
>>> the problem is that my 9"  FB1-4001A DC motor is shorted.  The
>>> motor leads are measuring at 0.1 ohm right now.
>>> 
>>> Anybody have suggestions as to anything to look at/for before I
>>> start the process of removing the motor?
>>> 
>>> I may also be in the market for a new/used FB1-4001A depending upon
>>> how things go
>>> 
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[EVDL] Sustainable Aviation and the Pipistrel Alpha Electro Trainers

[Tom Keenan via EV]

In case you are interested in electric aircraft, there will be a seminar in San 
Carlos on Saturday April 8th. I'm not sure, but this will probably just be a 
classroom presentation. 

Tom Keenan

"Sustainable Aviation and the Pipistrel Alpha Electro Trainers"
Topic: Safe, green, quiet and economical
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 12:00 Pacific Daylight Time
Location:
San Carlos Flight Center
655 Skyway Rd,
Suite 215
San Carlos, CA 94070
Select Number:
WP1575080

Description:

 

Joseph Oldham will present the Sustainable Aviation Project; the first 
deployment of production electric aircraft in commercial flight training 
service in the United States.  A joint effort between the City of Reedley, City 
of Mendota, Reedley College, Mazzei Flying Service, the Fresno Business 
Council, and the CALSTART San Joaquin Valley Clean Transportation Center, the 
project is using $1,071,348 in funding from the Fresno Council of Governments 
New Technology Reserve Fund Grant program for equipment, electric aircraft 
charger installation, technical assistance, and low-income student assistance 
costs.  Mr. Oldham will discuss the origin, development, and stakeholder 
engagement process for the project and provide updates on the current status of 
deployment of the aircraft and network of chargers to support their operation 
at four (4) airports in Fresno County.  The project benefits include:

Zero emission operations.

90% reduction in noise levels

Increased safety due to no flammable fuel on board for both pilots and ground 
personnel

Improved access to aviation careers through lower cost for flight training

Increased utilization and revitalization of rural airports

The Sustainable Aviation Project is designed to provide an essential first step 
for gaining public acceptance of the advanced electric aircraft technology 
being developed by entrepreneurs around the world.


 

Joseph Oldham, Director of the San Joaquin Valley Clean Transportation Center.

A native of the San Joaquin Valley and a private pilot since 1974, Mr. Oldham 
has had a passion for aviation since early childhood.  A graduate of California 
State University, Fresno, Mr. Oldham has spent most of his professional life 
working to improve air quality in the region through deployment of clean energy 
and clean vehicle technology.  

When the opportunity to develop a plan to deploy production electric aircraft 
for the first time in the United States in a practical way to support lower 
cost flight training operations, Mr. Oldham seized the chance, developed the 
plan, and helped organize an amazing team of people from local government, 
business, and education to make the plan a reality, and wrote the successful 
grant proposal that secured the funding for the project.

The Sustainable Aviation Project is not just the vision of one person; it is a 
vision of a region designed to change the way outsiders view the San Joaquin 
Valley and open doors for veterans and youth from the area to enter into an 
aviation career.   The project also will begin the process of getting the 
public familiar and comfortable with electric propulsion in aircraft as a step 
toward the advanced electric powered aerial sky taxi vehicles of the future and 
larger commercial electrically powered aircraft.

Mr. Oldham lives in Fresno, CA, with his wife Donna and two adult children.  He 
is co-owner of a 2007 Aeroprakt A-22 light sport aircraft and is working on 
getting his Sport Pilot CFI rating to be able to assist with flight training in 
the Pipistrel Alpha Electro aircraft when they are operational sometime in late 
2017.


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Re: [EVDL] Fair Radio parts and Rudman Mk1 docs needed

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I've found breaker/switches at West Marine. I believe they come in  5, 15, 20, 
and 30 amp versions. 

Tom Keenan

> On Jul 22, 2017, at 1:38 PM, David Chapman via EV  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know of a source for the AC and DC switch / breakers on a Fair 
> Radio charger? These appear to be some type of aircraft or mil spec switch 
> with I believe an integral breaker. When I first rebuilt this charger I got a 
> pair from Bob Rice but I forgot to ask him where he found them. Or I forget 
> what he said. Either way. Could use a pair and prefer stock replacement ones 
> so I don't have to adapt or butcher the case. When I first got this unit I 
> opened it up, cleaned and checked all the diodes and connections and 
> installed a large 120v fan and it has been the neatest charger / power supply 
> I have ever owned. It has charged everything from Citicars to Jets, Zappys 
> and golf karts and been used for various electrolysis projects like refining 
> and plating. Damn the US used to make great stuff. Dach.
> 
> PS, still got about 50 Rudman Mk I regulator un-populated boards if anyone 
> has the parts list / docs laying around to share. Shame to see them going to 
> waste in a box. 
> 
>  "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are" - Theodore Roosevelt 
> “We reached the old wolf in time to watch a fierce green fire dying in her 
> eyes  I was young then, and full of trigger-itch; I thought that because 
> fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters’ paradise. 
> But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the 
> mountain agreed with such a view.” - Aldo Leopold
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Re: [EVDL] spray on PC board protectant

[Tom Keenan via EV]

The MiniBMS bypass resistor is a 5w/4.7ohm power resistor (cement type with 
axial leads). SMD (surface mount device) was probably meant to describe the 
other devices on the board.   The large resistor on the MiniBMS (the version 
I've worked with only has one) gets hot in use, so spraying a coating on it is 
probably not a good idea. 
Tom Keenan

> On May 8, 2017, at 2:10 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> 
> Jay Summet via EV wrote:
>> The miniBMS units have two large SMD resistors that dissipate up to 0.5 amps 
>> of
>> current while top ballancing, and get quite hot to the touch when doing so. 
>> No
>> heat sinks on them however, so I don't know if that would be "too hot" or 
>> not.
> 
> 4v at 0.5a is 2 watts; that's a lot for a surface-mount resistor. In general, 
> I think it's a bad idea to use surface-mount for hot parts. If you don't mind 
> replacing the resistors, I'd rather use a leaded 5-watt resistor.
> 
> -- 
> Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple,
> reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and
> affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy.
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] Complacent Leaf execs talk 200mi range in 2yrs

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Although the title is based on a dated article (2016) the longer-range 
redesigned 2018 model year Leaf is due out later is year. It does seem that 
they have been resting on their laurels a bit long. 
Looks like they are dumping current model year inventory ahead of the new 
version. At least one dealership around here (Bay Area) is offering $39/mo 
leases. That deal requires $3,500 down, plus a $13,500 Nissan rebate - so 
simply driving the lease off the lot lowers the potential used resale by 
$17,000.  

Tom Keenan

> On May 9, 2017, at 3:35 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> 
> Complacent Leaf execs talk 200mi range in 2yrs

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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack overheating due

[Tom Keenan via EV]

6 bars doesn't sound bad - 80 degrees or so  ambient will give you 6 bars. 
Here's a story on Reddit about a long trip in a Leaf - this guy definitely had 
a hot battery- at 11 bars. 
https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/66k5pm/did_a_long_haul_trip_today/?st=J4BYZSR8=51ae1d60

Tom Keenan

> On Jun 24, 2017, at 11:56 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> When we went to 45% depth of discharge we got one bar hotter when fully 
> charged.  65% or more we stayed at 6 bars.  Lawrence Rhodes
> 
> Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device
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Re: [EVDL] looking for cheap load tester (Battery Recycling lead-acid)

[Tom Keenan via EV]

The last couple of batteries I took to the recycler ended up being 27 cents a 
pound. Oakland, CA. 

Tom Keenan

> On May 27, 2017, at 8:47 PM, Alan Arrison via EV  wrote:
> 
> Wow! Last time I took some lead-acids to recycle (about a year ago in NJ) 
> they were paying 8 cents a pound.
> 
> Hardly worth the effort of lugging them around.
> 
> Al
> 
> 
> On 5/27/2017 4:14 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
>>>  set the duds aside for recycling (you should get some money for them!
>> Just yesterday I was at the Maryland Recyclers and my favorite one off on
>> a side street was offering 22 cents a pound for lead-acids and the more
>> highly visibile recycler everyone goes to was only offering 20 cents.  So
>> it pays to check around.
>> 
>> Bob
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> 
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Re: [EVDL] $614 poorer Oslo.no Leaf EV driver busted> used mannequin as hov passenger

[Tom Keenan via EV]

...And the picture was also taken while a blue Leaf SV drives past, seen out 
the driver side window. 

Tom Keenan

> On May 5, 2017, at 9:09 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> [ref
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/614-poorer-Oslo-no-Leaf-EV-driver-busted-used-disheveled-mannequin-as-hov-passenger-tp4686647.html
> ]
> 
> I got to wondering about what brand of EV that guy was driving. Was it
> really an EV or just a clueless media outlet calling an electrified (hybrid)
> an EV.
> 
> Looking at the image the media outlet provided
> https://i1.wp.com/norwaytoday.info/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/tbdaa3eb.jpg
> 
> I zoomed in on the center console shifter as the item I would used to ID
> which vehicle this was. An image search 
> http://www.roperld.com/science/graphics/LEAFShifter.jpg
> 
> of what plugins were sold in Norway led me to believe his was a ~2012 Leaf
> EV
> http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/1d44369b-f753-4f1a-bb61-a8dd96c205ce
> 
> Though not many styling changes occurred over the years of the Leaf EV's 
> release, I figured any guy that wanted a free ride in (Hwy) E18's priority
> lane (like equivalent to CA's hov lanes), went cheap and brought an older
> used model Leaf EV to pinch pennies (kroner).
> 
> Also take a look at the mannequin. He only used the top half, and he didn't
> even spend the time to make her look less disheveled
> https://wardrobelooks.com/disheveled-messy-womens-hairstyles/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
> http://evdl.org/evln/
> 
> 
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/614-poorer-Oslo-no-Leaf-EV-driver-busted-used-mannequin-as-hov-passenger-tp4686653.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] K BC20 96 volt charger replacement?

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I have a BC20 with the full set of resistors, and a Zivan NG3 that are used, 
and either should work well for your needs. Before that, you should check for 
ground faults. Spilled acid is one of the main reasons for increasing nuisance 
trips of the built-in GFI. Could just need to rinse off the pack. 

Tom Keenan

> On Sep 28, 2017, at 10:02 AM, Mary Eriksen via EV  wrote:
> 
> Hoping someone can recommend a replacement for K BC20 charger (home
> converted 62 MG Midget with that has suddenly stopped being able to charge
> fully without tripping... can only output 7 A ) or if someone has one they
> are selling as an upgrade? Its worked for 12 years but suddenly does not
> seem to be able to fully charge the battery pack(new) and i'm afraid its
> going to damage them..
> 
> I'm using 8 12v deep cycle (flooded lead acid) batteries and have a
> separate DC converter for auxillary...
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated!
> thanks
> m. perillat
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Re: [EVDL] Ford's Energi pih abandonment raises questions> (AK writer's EV-ignorance dogmatized)

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Way OT here, but months ago we drove a rental truck across country.  It was an 
E85 flex-fuel rig.  We stopped someplace in Corn Country and filled up on 
‘cheap fuel’ (E85) instead of regular E10 because it happened to be available. 
Instead of getting 10-11 mpg as averaged for the first part of the trip using 
E10, the mileage dropped to 6-7 mpg - a drop of about 25% in mpg over a 
relatively flat section of interstate. Came back up to 11 mpg or so once we 
filled back up with E10 at the next fill up (which came quickly after fewer 
miles per tank using E85).
This reflects very well the known difference in energy content between ethanol 
and gasoline.  Never bought E85 again, as it was very slow to accelerate the 
moving truck to freeway speed using that fuel, and zero advantage in cost/mile. 
At the prices mentioned below ($2.45/$3.01), the energy content is almost 
exactly the same per $ for E85 and E10 (‘regular gas’). In other words, as we 
found out during our real-world example, if you were to place either in your 
flex-fuel vehicle, they would have virtually the same cost-per-mile. So, one is 
not ‘way cheaper than the other’ when considering actual miles per $.  
Performance wise, I’d consider E85 inferior to E10 based on around 250 miles of 
suffering with it, and wondering why the gas needle was dropping so quickly. 

Tom Keenan

> On Nov 15, 2017, at 3:27 PM, Jorg Brown via EV  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Cor van de Water via EV 
> wrote:
>> Flex-fuel vehicles are notorious for *never* running on anything but
>> regular gas,
> 
> What??  That's bonkers.  At least where I live, E85 is way cheaper ( see
> https://goo.gl/maps/FCHNRzSm7TF2 ) - $2.45 per gallon versus $3.01 per
> gallon for regular unleaded.
> 
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
> wrote:
> 
>> I don't get why people get so excited about PIHs.
>> 
>> California data shows a big problem with folks not even bothering to
>> charge them.
>> 
> 
> Really?  I was just reading
> https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1102004_why-isnt-the-2016-chevy-volt-a-flex-fuel-plug-in-hybrid-that-can-use-e85-ethanol
> and it said:
> 
>> And Chevrolet's data on driving and usage patterns for more than
>> 80,000 Volts indicates that nine out of every 10 trips taken in the
>> longer-range 2016 Volt will be powered exclusively from grid
>> electricity used to recharge the battery.
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Re: [EVDL] (ot): EVLN EV newswire status ...

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Best of luck Bruce - take it easy on the drive, and don’t forget to stop and 
have some fun along the way. 

Tom Keenan
>> On Dec 16, 2017, at 9:09 PM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In the past I have mentioned that I am spending time doing tasks and
>> research to relocate (to more affordable digs). I thank the people who have
>> helped advise me offline (especially Willie), so I can keep my head straight
>> and aimed toward achieving my goal. I have made decisions and actions (like
>> a commitment) toward that goal. If all goes well I will begin my trip on
>> Monday.
>> 
>> Not to go into all the details ... how this will impact my EVLN posts we
>> will have to see. Knowing my energy levels are not as high as when I was a
>> younger man, I am limiting my driving time before stopping for an over night
>> motel stay (this might be a rather painful week long trip for others, but
>> this trip will be at a slow enough pace so I do not over tax/load myself. I
>> plan to avoid large cities to minimize traffic jams, etc. (map)
>> https://goo.gl/maps/zBuMbT71Npr
>> 
>> There may be days when I do not post, or days where I post a couple of days
>> worth. I am hoping, my slower pace method (and motel WiFi) will allow me the
>> energy levels& connectivity  to make this transition seamless.
>> 
>> A lot of challenges await this old-man, but I am hoping for the best.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>> http://evdl.org/archive/
>> 
>> 
>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>> 
>> --
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Re: [EVDL] Advice on new battery pack

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I have an old Zivan Charger (1.2/2.2 kW switchable, 120v input) that was set up 
for a 54 cell lead acid pack.  Tops out around 2.45 volts per cell (132.5 
volts) if you would like to use it.  Can be reprogrammed by a shop in 
Sacramento if needed.  Located in the Bay Area.

It was used in an old conversion that was decommissioned about a year ago.  I 
have a number of parts from that vehicle (9” GE motor, ‘gas gauge’ converter, 
large breaker switch, vac pump, etc.) if anyone needs a part or two for a 
conversion.  

Tom Keenan

> On Jun 21, 2018, at 12:41 AM, Cor van de Water via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> I have 2 full Leaf packs in my truck.
> Since my motor controller does both driving and charging (and regen, which
> is essentially charging from the motor) there are no diodes, the two packs
> are always in parallel. I did put a 200a fuse in each parallel string so
> that a failure in one pack or a short in the controller, leading to
> excessive current, would blow one or both of those fuses.
> Cor
> 
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 8:54 PM John Lussmyer via EV 
> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed Jun 20 19:00:25 PDT 2018 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
 I should mention that a Leaf has 48 modules ina  pack.  So if you
>> bought a whole pack, you could put 3 in parallel, and have a few extras.
>>> 
>>> That sounds like a good move. The Leaf pack is designed for high voltage
>>> and low current. I'm not sure the modules would like 500a peak currents.
>>> It would be better to divide that up between 3 parallel strings.
>>> 
>>> I think I'd also use a commoning diode and fuse per string. That way, a
>>> failure in one string doesn't allow the other two strings to dump all
>>> their power into it!
>> 
>> I used sets of 3 modules in parallel, with 40 sets in series on my truck.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Bobcats and Cougars, oh my!  http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets
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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I have a 2013 Leaf.  It has a charging door open button inside at the left of 
the steering wheel.  I normally use the ‘inside’ button when I get home and the 
EV is parked for the day.  
Occasionally, I forget to unlock the door before I get out, or if I happen to 
not plug it in until later in the evening. The remote button is useful (saves 
opening the car, pressing the inside button, locking the car again) but really 
is only a small convenience.  Especially if you get the plug from the EVSE rack 
only to find you’ve forgotten to unlock the charge port door. 
I like having the remote charging door unlock on the fob, even if I only use it 
once every few weeks. 

Tom Keenan

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 2:12 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 14 Oct 2018 at 7:57, Tom Parker via EV wrote:
>> 
>> My 2016 Leaf has remote charge port opening -- the key fob has a 3rd 
>> button, if you hold it down for about 2 seconds, the door opens.
> 
> Darned if I can see the point of this.  How hard could it be to open the 
> charging port door with your left hand, when you're standing there with the 
> charging connector in your right hand?  (Or vice versa.)  
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like I'd be more trouble to get 
> the keys out and find the right button.  And then you have to hold it down 
> for a while.  Nuisance.
> 
> OTOH, inside release fuel filler doors make sense.  They help prevent fuel 
> theft.  But with an EV, who's gonna steal your electrons?  Or is that a 
> thing now somehow?  Or EV charging port vandalism?  If so, does a remote 
> release really help?
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] AM radios dropped from plugins (RFI, EMI, +)> (go digital)

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I have a 2013 Leaf, and the AM radio works fine. Same with my old 2005 Prius.  
I use the AM radio on a daily basis during my commute to work.  Not sure if it 
is perhaps an issue with certain radio suppliers/car manufacturers?

Tom Keenan

> On Nov 9, 2018, at 10:09 AM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> 
> paul dove via EV wrote:
>> Is the problem radiated emissions or conducted emissions anyone know?
> 
> If radiated, it will cause problems not only for your own car; but will also 
> wipe out AM in the car next to it!
> 
> Our Prius has an AM radio, though it has a "tin ear" -- poor weak signal 
> reception. This has been a problem for me on long trips. FM stations fade in 
> and out as you drive, but especially at night, you can listen to the same AM 
> station for your entire drive.
> 
> -- 
> Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple,
> reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and
> affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy.
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM boosts Bolt production> (after killing-off Sonic ice)

[Tom Keenan via EV]

The article mentions low sales for the Sonic as a reason for possible end of 
production of the Sonic. Oddly, the monthly and yearly sales numbers of both 
the Bolt and Sonic are relatively similar - less than 2,000 each most months, 
and less than 20,000 each for 2018. 

Tom Keenan

> On Jan 22, 2019, at 8:07 PM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> % Bolt EV is based of Sonic ice, both are made at same plant %
> 
> http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2019/01/chevy-sonic-could-be-next-as-gm-kills-off-slow-selling-passenger-cars/
> Chevy Sonic Could Be Next as GM Kills Off Slow-Selling Passenger Cars
> Jan.18, 2019  Paul A. Eisenstein
> 
> [image  
> http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/2017-Chevrolet-Sonic-sedan.jpg
> The Sonic (ice) sedan in a sporty RS trim level as well, including blacked
> out wheels, wasn't enough to jumpstart sales.
> ]
> 
> Several more plants also on endangered list.
> 
> The Chevy Sonic is limping along and appears ripe to be discontinued by GM.
> 
> 
> In the northern Detroit suburb of Orion Township, one of General Motors’
> assembly plants is hanging on by a thread. The factory is barely running on
> one shift and, were it not for the Chevrolet Bolt EV, might have been a
> fourth plant on the list of assembly lines GM said it would shut down last
> November.
> 
> The automaker has actually increased production of the all-electric Bolt in
> recent months, but demand for the Chevrolet Sonic, the other model rolling
> off the line there has dropped to less than 2,000 a month, barely enough to
> bother, it seems.
> 
> 
> The Last Word!
> 
> TheDetroitBureau.com first warned that the subcompact Sonic was on the
> endangered list in April 2017 and now, it seems, its fate may be sealed. The
> Wall Street Journal is reporting Sonic’s days are numbered, though a
> spokesperson for Chevy says that, at least for now, there is nothing formal
> to be announced.
> 
> Chevy had high hopes for the Sonic when it launched the small car in 2012 as
> a replacement for the old Aveo. It was one of several small models, along
> with the even more Lilliputian Chevrolet Spark, targeted at buyers on a
> budget and struggling with gas prices that had surged as high as $4 a
> gallon. To justify building the two models in the States, rather than Korea
> or Europe, GM had asked for and received concessions from the United Auto
> Workers Union that added up to hundreds, even thousands of dollars a
> vehicle. That was major news on products with only the slimmest of profit
> margins.
> 
> Initially, the Sonic seemed to fare reasonably well, by 2014 sales peaking
> at just over 93,000. Last year, however, they barely topped 20,000, And with
> the economy reasonably strong, while gas prices are hovering just below $2 a
> gallon in much of the country, Sonic has become little more than an
> afterthought for buyers – especially with reasonably affordable alternative
> in the crossover category, such as the Chevrolet Trax.
> 
> 
> The only reason Chevy didn’t kill off the Sonic earlier, according to one
> well-placed source who spoke to TheDetroitBureau.com, is that it could fill
> in the gaps on the line between Chevrolet Bolt EVs. But with sales of the
> electric vehicle gaining momentum it’s become less and less necessary to
> keep the Sonic rolling at the Orion plant, too.
> 
> Were it not for the importance of the Bolt as Chevrolet’s first all-electric
> model, the bowtie brand might simply abandon it, too, shuttering the
> suburban plant, as well.
> 
> 
> GM already is set to close three assembly plants – one in Detroit, one in
> Lordstown, Ohio, and a third in Oshawa, Ontario – as well as two component
> plants. All told, more than 14,000 workers will be impacted by those
> closings, as well as a cutback of white-collar staff.
> 
> Six passenger car models will drive off into the sunset, meanwhile,
> including three other Chevy products: the compact Cruze, the Volt plug-in
> hybrid and the full-size Impala sedan. Add to the list Cadillac’s CT6 and
> XTS sedans, and the midsize Buick LaCrosse.
> 
> At least a few more GM plants are considered at risk, according to industry
> analysts, including one near Michigan’s capital city Lansing, one in Bowling
> Green, Kentucky, and another in Fairfax, Kansas.
> 
> Officially, GM has only said that it has “unallocated” product that had been
> built in the Detroit-Hamtramck, Oshawa and Lordstown factories. Technically,
> that means they could stay open if new products move in to replace vehicles,
> like the Cruze, that are being dropped. That will be one of the key demands
> from the UAW when it begins negotiating a new, four-year contract with GM
> next summer.
> 
> GM CEO Mary Barra earlier this week indicated new products are coming –
> including an all-electric Cadillac that brand teased during a preview ahead
> of the North American International Auto Show’s opening.
> 
> But Barra quickly dashed hopes that those upcoming products could save the

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Toyota dealers say there is no sale$ demand.us for EVs

[Tom Keenan via EV]

If this is based on dealership interviews/meetings, then then perhaps the 
dealership answer was really (...since we make less money on servicing 
electrics) we don’t want to sell them. Thus, we pretend there is no demand. 

Tom Keenan

> On Dec 13, 2018, at 12:46 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> https://evbite.com/there-might-not-be-toyota-all-electric-car-and-heres-why/
> There Might Not Be Another Toyota All-Electric Car, and Here’s Why
> December 8, 2018  David Mowatt
> 
> [images  
> https://i2.wp.com/evbite.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/RAV4-EV.jpg
> ]
> 
> While the Japanese automaker has made considerable strides in the electric
> plug-in and hybrid market thanks to their various Prius model variants, it
> has been quite some time since we’ve seen a purely electric vehicle from
> Toyota. According to Jack Hollis, the general manager of Toyota Motor North
> America, it is unlikely we’ll be see a Toyota all-electric car anytime soon.
> 
> With other well-known automakers pushing desperately towards
> electrification, it always appeared rather odd that Toyota never seemed to
> step outside of the plug-in and hybrid world in order to construct a
> fully-electric car to compete with the ever changing marketplace.
> 
> According to Jack Hollis, Toyota dealers don’t believe they can sell enough
> fully-electric vehicles to warrant a business case, plain and simple.
> 
> During a roundtable interview at the recent Los Angeles Auto Show, Hollis
> shared:
> 
>“If our dealers, and we just met with our national dealer council two
> weeks ago, if our dealers felt like there was a significant demand (for EVs)
> we would have already had fully electric and electric vehicles already on
> the road today.
> 
>“Having that technology, which you’ll remember if you go back the
> electric RAV4 was one of the first electric offerings in the marketplace in
> the US, period. So the technology there and what we can offer is available,
> but like any good demand and supply economy, if the demand is low, do you
> really want to supply?”
> 
> Longtime fans of the Japanese automaker may remember the RAV4 EV, the first
> Toyota all-electric car. Initially introduced in 1997, the fully-electric
> crossover was discontinued in 2003 before Toyota later reintroduced a second
> model in 2012. The second generation RAV4 EV, unfortunately, was
> discontinued after just a few years on the market. In spite of the RAV4 EV’s
> relatively short lifespan, its very existence shows that Toyota do know how
> to make fully-electric vehicles—they just don’t believe they can make money
> doing so at the moment.
> 
> Hollis added:
> 
>“But I will say at the exact same time, there is daily investment ... of
> our electrification strategy, so I do not believe that our dealers, and they
> would agree, that we should not go down just with an electric offering but
> we should with an electrification offering where we have a wider range of
> products, a wide range of energy sources and uses available. And that’s
> really what were pursuing, a wider range. And then as we go over time well
> be able to see where the marketplace moves. But at this point, there is no
> reason to race that to market.”
> 
> Toyota clearly plans to take their time as they ease into the electric
> vehicle marketplace, which we can’t fault them for. Unlike automakers like
> Volkswagen who claim to be able to pump out over 50 million electric
> vehicles, it’s interesting to see Toyota opt for a slower, more relaxed pace
> in regards to their electrification goals. Only time will tell when we’ll
> see another Toyota all-electric car, but we hope it will be well worth the
> wait.
> [© evbite.com]
> 
> 
> https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2018/12/toyota-if-our-dealers-thought-they-could-sell-evs-we-d-already-have-one.html
> Toyota: We Don't Have a Business Case to Make EVs » AutoGuide ...
> Dec 06, 2018 - Toyota sells a ton of electrified vehicles between its
> various Prius model ... “If our dealers, and we just met with our national
> dealer council two ... was a significant demand (for EVs) we would have
> already had fully ... And make no mistake about it, Toyota will offer an EV
> one day – it's just ... 
> https://www.autoguide.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Toyota-RAV-4-EV.jpg
> 
> 
> [dated]
> Toyota expanding NEV manufacturing in China - electrive.com
> https://www.electrive.com/2018/08/17/toyota-expanding-ev-manufacturing-in-china/
> Aug 17, 2018 - Specifically, Toyota plans to increase production capacities
> for electric vehicles in their factories in Tianjin and Guangzhou. The first
> location ...
> 
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-china-gac-exclusive/exclusive-toyota-plans-to-roll-into-chinas-ev-market-in-gac-motor-vehicle-idUSKCN1IJ07K
> Exclusive: Toyota plans to roll into China's EV market in GAC Motor vehicle
> May 17, 2018 - BEIJING (Reuters) - Toyota plans to start selling the GAC
> Toyota ix4 by the end of the year. The 

Re: [EVDL] Charging adapter for J1772?

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I made an adapter to use J1772 level 2 when I had an older conversion car. The 
charger used an input of 120v. I found that most ‘commercial’ locations have 
220 volts at the plug, so I had to get a transformer that would put out 120v 
when supplied with 220v.

When plugged in to the rare Level 2 charging station with 240v (such as at a 
house) the transformer output would be about 160v, much higher than the charger 
could use. 

   I say this because if your charger expects 240v, and it is 
transformer-based, you may not be getting full charging voltage from the 
typical Level2 charging station. 

If it is OK with a wider range of voltage -around- 240v, than an adapter will 
probably work out. 

Tom Keenan

> On Aug 30, 2019, at 3:20 PM, Paul Compton via EV  wrote:
> 
> In theory, you can have a pair of EVSE outlets sharing the same feed,
> so each one can supply 3Kw, but if both are in use then that capacity
> has to be shared.
> 
>> On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 at 23:01, John Lussmyer via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> On Fri Aug 30 14:06:19 PDT 2019 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>>> Well, a little quick Googling found a J1772 Adapter Box 
>>> (http://www.tucsonev.com/) -- at
>>> $150 I'm sorely tempted!  Anybody have experience with this or any other 
>>> J1772 adapter?
>> 
>> The one issue I have with those is that it doesn't prevent your charger from 
>> trying to draw MORE current than the EVSE allows.
>> As long as you have a 3.3KW (or less) charger, it will likely be fine - 
>> Unless plugged into a 120V 15A outlet where the EVSE is telling your charger 
>> to limit itself to 12A (about 1500W).  In which case you need a REALLY wimpy 
>> charger.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Tigers prowl and Dragons soar in my dreams...
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Paul Compton
> www.morini-mania.co.uk
> www.paulcompton.co.uk (YouTube channel)
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Re: [EVDL] Dieselgate part two.

[Tom Keenan via EV]

The video explained that the Dieselgate ‘fix’ for a specific Diesel engine used 
in at least one model of VW only was enabled between a specific outside air 
temperature range, 5 to 35 c if I remember correctly. If the temp was less than 
5c, the emissions fix was turned off. If above 35c it was turned off. In many 
parts of Europe (where this specific vehicle was sold) the emissions fix would 
be turned off much of the time. 

Tom Keenan

> On Aug 23, 2019, at 10:37 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 23 Aug 2019 at 16:27, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
>> 
>> VW is at it again cheating on emissions via software again.  This time it is
>> temperature and again they got caught. 
> 
> Sorry, I didn't watch the video clip; I prefer to read about such things.  
> Is it this?
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/26/business/audi-vw-emissions-scandal.html
> 
> "Newly uncovered documents viewed by The New York Times show that 
> Volkswagen´s Audi luxury-car unit was more deeply involved in developing the 
> emissions cheating scheme than previously known, and continued to sell 
> vehicles with illegal software even after the scandal became public ... Most 
> of the recent set of documents were prepared in 2007 and 2008 ...
> 
> "So ingrained was the use of illegal software that Audi continued to use it 
> even after American authorities formally accused Volkswagen of emissions 
> cheating in September 2015. In December 2017, according to documents that 
> did not become public until earlier this month, German regulators ordered 
> Audi to recall 150,000 [European-sold] Q5 midsize S.U.V.s with 3-liter 
> diesel engines because they contained defeat devices."
> 
> From what I've read recently, almost all European automakers were doing the 
> same thing as VW/Audi, using similar onboard software that detected when the 
> vehicle was under test and kept emissions within legal limits only then.  
> 
> They got away with it for years, because the EU emissions certification 
> program is pretty much broken. Remember, VW was collared not in Germany (fat 
> chance), but right here in the US.  Clearly, "regulatory capture" isn't 
> unique to the US.
> 
> This may be one reason that much of Western Europe is now pushing hard for 
> EVs and against Diesels. 
> 
> Please correct me if I've misstated anything in this post.
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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> 
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Re: [EVDL] NDEW updates: 9/14 Austin, 9/21 San Antonio; vw's E.America L3 EVSE @Walmart

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Not related to a VW install, but I went to a ‘dual’ CCS/Chademo location one 
time, and as no one was using it I plugged in (and paid...) to top off some of 
the battery. While there, another user plugged in to the CCS side.  I finished 
my lunch, and the other driver was standing near her car.  She said that at 
that particular pylon, the first one on had to finish before the second one 
would start up. She had some problems there in the past when people would 
unplug/end her charge so the other side would start.

I’ve also seen some that divide the available power between the two sides - so 
if a second car plugged in, the ‘50 amp’ EVSE was suddenly only putting out 25 
amps.  Still faster than L2 (due to higher voltage) but not by much. 

Tom Keenan

> On Sep 14, 2019, at 4:47 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9/14/19 12:11 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>> 
>> Today, I went to the Walmart superstore in N.W. San Antonio that vw's
>> E.America installed L3 EVSE. Its located between the front parking of that
>> Walmart's auto center and the back of Gold's gym.
>> https://www.plugshare.com/location/169448
>> There are 8 dual-port L3 EVSE (16 ports total): 4 ports 350kW ccs, 3 ports
>> 150kW ccs, 1 port 50kW CHAdeMO. No L2 EVSE. Plugshare check-ins report
>> several problems ...
> 
> Did you see any cars charging?  If so, what cars using what protocol?
> 
> I unexpectedly encountered a VW/ChargeAmerica charge station a few miles from 
> the Tesla SuperCharger in Lima Montana:
> https://wmckemie.blogspot.com/2019/08/ev-charging-adventures-in-north.html
> 
> Same deal on a smaller scale.  Four pylons, one low power chademo, no J1772.  
> I saw no one charging during my brief visit.  I did not check PlugShare for 
> reliability.  I had understood that it is one customer per pylon.  Were that 
> true, it would be pointless to have two "CCS"s on a single pylon as 
> photographed.  I guess it is one customer per pylon when the options are 
> chademo or CCS on that pylon?  So the four pylons photographed could 
> accommodate up to 7 cars concurrently?  Maybe I'm confused by the EVGo charge 
> stations?  Maybe the VW pylons will do one chademo and one CCS concurrently 
> on the same pylon?
> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] sacrilege> Obrist mutilates Tesla-3 EV into 17kWh 2cyl pih r:1000km

[Tom Keenan via EV]

And it makes me wonder what kind of emissions control it will have. If it is 
just a ‘standard’ generator, the hybrid will likely will not have a catalytic 
converter, vapor control, etc.  those systems take significant engineering to 
control and keep emissions low, much less find space to mount all the high temp 
items away from anything flammable or easily degraded by high heat - something 
a low-budget outfit probably doesn’t have the ability to do. Mounting the 
generator and a gas tank in the front area will likely change the crash 
worthiness of the Model 3. 

Beyond that, I wonder how they get around the Tesla software. If found, I’m 
sure the hack job will be disabled by Tesla to keep their brand from being 
tarnished. 

Tom Keenan

> On Jan 5, 2020, at 12:45 PM, moskowitz via EV  wrote:
> 
> It sounds like they've re-invented the Chevy Volt's powertrain.
> 
> 
> Len Moskowitz
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Re: [EVDL] FĒNIX POWER subscription based EV pack nissan Leaf replacement program

[Tom Keenan via EV]

I haven’t heard of this company, but I wonder if they will be able to use the 
name Fenix without a copyright problem.  Garmin (GPS devices) has a series of 
GPS running watches that use the same name and spelling (FĒNIX).

Also, the lease/service fee they are proposing is about $99 a month plus 
installation. Originally, in some markets new Leafs - the entire vehicle - 
could be leased for $99 a month.  I guess whether it is worth paying $99 a 
month to keep an older EV running depends on how in love one is with the tech 
when it was built.

Tom Keenan

> On Apr 26, 2020, at 12:56 AM, cleanair--- via EV  wrote:
> 
> Anybody familiar with this company FĒNIX POWER?
> Looks like one can have their Leafs prismatic flat pack pack with no TMS 
> replaced with cylindrical lithium cells with thermal management at less than 
> half of what Nissan will charge you for a new pack. Plus you can buy into a 
> low cost battery degradation prevention subscription service. 
> 
> Danny Ames
> 
> 
> https://fenix.systems/product/nissan-leaf-battery-pack-replacement-pre-production
> 
> Nissan Leaf Battery Pack Replacement
> 
> We are currently taking reservations for our Nissan Leaf Battery Pack 
> Replacement solution.  This is a wholly new battery pack design that will 
> initially be compatible with earlier generations of Leaf.  (Prior to 2018)  
> This pack will use Lithium-Ion technology and will use cells similar to those 
> used in Tesla’s battery packs.
> 
> Much of the technology we are using will be revealed at a later date as we 
> are still working on the patenting of our solution.  We can tell you a few 
> things about our solution, for example, we will be using cylindrical cells 
> rather than the Leaf’s prismatic/pouch cells.  To the Leaf’s computers, the 
> pack will appear to be identical to the original pack.  Our replacement does 
> have an active thermal management solution for the pack, unlike Nissan’s 
> stock pack that lacks temperature management.  And the pack WILL be 
> serviceable, allowing replacement of individual modules that contain cells 
> that are starting to degrade and be able to keep the pack in top performance 
> indefinitely.  Understand that you’re not buying a battery, you’re 
> subscribing to a guarantee.*
> 
> We are currently taking reservations for our Nissan Leaf Battery Pack 
> Replacement solution.  This is a wholly new battery pack that will be 
> compatible with earlier generations of Leaf.  (Prior to 2018)  This pack will 
> use Lithium-Ion technology, with cells very similar to those used in Tesla’s 
> battery packs.  Reservations also gain access to our early battery 
> replacement program with the option to replace their existing stock battery 
> with a certified pre-owned and minimally degraded Nissan battery pack.  
> Customers also subscribing to our Battery as a Service program will enjoy 
> access to a degradation warranty, if the replacement battery ages quickly, we 
> will replace it again, on us.  Warranty details to be announced when 
> installations begin.

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Re: [EVDL] Stranded ICE assets

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Oddly, fuel prices where I live (SF Bay Area) really haven’t changed much. 
Still a bit over $3 per gallon for regular. Has been that way for several 
months at least.

Tom Keenan

> On Apr 26, 2020, at 3:09 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> 
> EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>>> Electric adoption will happen much quicker if the security of the oil supply
>>> changes or the price of oil skyrockets or people become aware of the harm 
>>> and
>>> cost pumping, refining and  burning fossil fuel poses.
>> 
>> Awareness of the harm won't do it.  It's not sufficiently immediate, and
>> it's not personal.  A few people kind of care, but it's mostly lip service,
>> forgotten as soon as the car sales person starts to push yet another big ICE
>> SUV.
> 
> Sadly, I agree. Most people are too wrapped up in their day-to-day "instant 
> gratification" lives to care about any big-picture issues.
> 
> Today, gas is cheap; so they don't/won't think about EVs.
> 
> "Herd memory" is also a strange thing. What's happening today drowns out 
> whatever happened before; so it comes as a total surprise if it happens again.
> 
> Thus, they barely noticed that gas prices have fallen 2:1. But watch the hue 
> and cry when they go back up 2:1! They barely notice that the air got cleaner 
> without all the ICE pollution. But here them shout when it shoots back up 
> again when the crisis passes!
> 
> If we lived in a logical world with rational people, we would have already 
> switched to EVs. Instead, we balance at the tipping point, with powerful 
> forces pushing us back away from the brink.
> 
> Lee Hart
> 
> -- 
> Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
> our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
> and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] : V2g for DIY EV's (economics)

[Tom Keenan via EV]

For those interested, here is a slightly more detailed write-up of my solar 
power system at home. 

The supplier for my system is Electriq.  They provided a Darfon(Panasonic) 
charger/inverter and the Panasonic batteries. I believe the battery cells are 
similar to the ones used by Tesla, but am not sure. 

The inverter itself runs at 48v (nominal).  I have six sets of 48v batteries 
wired in parallel to the charger/inverter input. Each of the individual units 
of the six pack is rated around 3 kWh, but in practice they are kept to about 
2.5 kWh by limiting how far up and down they can go while charging and 
discharging in order to maintain the health of the overall battery system.  
Thus gives me around 15 kWh at about 48 volts for the battery. 

The solar array is two strings of six panels, for about 2kW (@240v) for each of 
the two strings, making it a 4kW (nominal) system. Depending on the sky clarity 
and temperature, I’ve seen the array put out up to 5kW for brief periods of 
time. More normal to see it around 3.8 or so kW. If I had to do it again, I’d 
have two strings of 7 panels to make the MPPT more robust.  But putting up two 
more panels and this point would only add to the amount of ‘credit’ I’ll lose 
at the end of the year, so I’ll take the efficiency hit. 

As it is, the voltage of six panels is on the edge of being able to use 
inverter-based MPPT or not, depending on how much sun they are getting. 
Generally the voltage is just a little bit (1 or 2 volts) too low to work 
consistently. With an extra panel in the string, it would normally be in MPPT 
mode.  Unfortunately, I can’t simply combine the 12 panels into one string, 
because even though the voltage would be very good, the total power is higher 
than the inverter can handle on a single string (3.7kW max per string). 

The inverter is rated at about 5.7(?) kW continuous, but will peak higher for 
certain brief periods. I saw it around 8kW once when I plugged in my EV without 
first checking the charge amp limit, and it handled it gracefully. 

I will be charging the Kona tomorrow because I drove it about 50 miles this 
evening. I’ll plug it in around 10:30 am after the house battery has finished 
charging. Depending on how sunny it is, and if it is warm enough that I want to 
turn on The A/C in the house (not likely), I’ll set the car charge amps 
somewhere between 10 and 20 amps (@240v). 

Tom Keenan

> On May 28, 2020, at 7:11 PM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> Thomas's post didn't make it to me.  I'm pleased to see it completely quoted 
> here.
> 
>> On 5/28/20 8:09 PM, Alan Arrison via EV wrote:
>> Tom, could you give some specifics on this system, or point us to a web page?
>> What battery? What inverter?
>> Thanks, Al
>>> On 5/28/2020 1:24 PM, Thomas Keenan via EV wrote:
>>> Where I live, the local utility has some odd rules, but I do get credited 
>>> $0.06968 for each kWh given back to the grid.  I have a permitted 4 kW 
>>> array that feeds a Darfon/Panasonic inverter/charger for a 15kWh (useable) 
>>> battery that was commissioned in January.  The battery covers times when 
>>> the panels aren’t putting out enough to power the house, such as overnight. 
>>>  Overnight, the house uses two or three kWh that comes from the battery.  
>>> In the morning the battery recharges, and is typically done charging around 
>>> 10:30 in the AM.  After that, any excess is sold.
>>> 
>>> This inverter/battery setup has been working very well.  The battery has 
>>> not been below about 50% so far, and that was during a three-day rain event 
>>> where the system wasn’t producing much.  Aside from those (somewhat rare) 
>>> rain events, I generally have around 10-20 kWh excess that is sold back to 
>>> the grid daily.
> 
> This is much the same as my PowerWall set up which has been running about 15 
> months.  The PW allows me to avoid all electricity  purchases. But the PW 
> cost can not be justified by the savings.
> 
> I sell over production for $.0645/kwh and buy at about $.10.  The PW allows 
> me to not buy about 10kwh each night.  So, my daily savings from using the PW 
> is only about 10 x ($.10-$.0645) or less than $.50/day.  I don't buy the 
> 10kwh at night but I have to use 10kwh during the day to charge the battery 
> and thus do not sell that 10kwh.  The PW cost $13k. I justify that cost with 
> grid down security.
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Re: [EVDL] Game over the Tesla NACS wins the day

[Tom Keenan via EV]

If NACS does become the standard, I’m curious how Tesla will do billing for 
non-Tesla vehicles. Will the vehicle be identified by the charging station (as 
Teslas are at superchargers?) or will it be via app?

I also wonder if Tesla will disallow some vehicles (or certain models) from 
charging on the supercharger network if something were to occur, such as a 
battery recall, a vehicle being reported as being involved in an accident, or 
even a dispute with the other manufacturer?

From the direction of other EVSE providers (such as EA), is it possible to 
modify current EVSE to have both CCS and NACS on the same equipment?  Perhaps 
swap out one of the two CCS cables (such as is done with some Chademo 
installs)? 

Seems odd that EA oftentimes installs two CCS cables on a device that only 
serves one parking space, so that might make more sense. 

Or is it significantly more complicated than adding a digital handshaking part 
for NACS to work with the analog-based CCS stations?

Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that some issues with EA charging stations might be 
related to poor cell signal coverage at some sites. It seems that when I’ve had 
troubles getting EA EVSE to work/process payment, it is typically in a spot 
with less than two bars of cell service. 

Tom Keenan

> On Jun 9, 2023, at 3:35 AM, EV List Lackey via EV  wrote:
> 
> Interesting.  For me, strictly academically so, since neither GM nor Ford 
> now offers an EV that I'd even consider buying.
> 
> Regrettable too that we can't have a worldwide charging standard, and one 
> not dictated by a particular automaker.  
> 
> That second condition may be just the foul aftertaste left by Magne Charge, 
> rammed through by GM.
> 
> CCS Type 2 is the EU standard.  Even Teslas use it here.  Works for me. :-)
> 
> In China it's GB/T.  
> 
> I think that Japan is still "plugging away" with Chademo.  Not that it 
> matters that much, since Japan is even more of an EV laggard than the US, 
> thanks to Toyota's anti-EV influence.  Though I read recently that Toyota's 
> new chairman may be less opposed to EVs.
> 
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
> 
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> 
> Believe it or not, there are physical structures called stores 
> designed for in-person shopping. Most have signs outside, adver-
> tising what they sell. Grocery stores sell food; clothing stores 
> sell clothing. Home Depot sells homes and depots, Trader Joe's 
> sells sloppy joes, and Target sells everything but what you wanted.
> 
>-- Janet Periat
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> 
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[EVDL] NACS Implementation Timeline from EV Manufacturers

[Tom Keenan via EV]

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Re: [EVDL] NEMA 14-50 Receptacles for EVSE, EV Charging

[Tom Keenan via EV]

NEC article 625.17 has a mention that the input cord length shall not exceed 
12” if the personnel protection system (GFI?) is located in the EVSE enclosure. 
That appears to be an ‘out’ for needing a GFI breaker?  Just speculation. 
Tom Keenan

> On Apr 12, 2024, at 7:14 AM, Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks
> When reading the 2020 NEC for a master electrician exam, I noticed 210.8(B) 
> says that 50A and below must now have a GFCI breaker at the panel that Tesla 
> etc says will cause nuisance trips (see article). 625.54 in the EV section 
> further states “All receptacles for EV charging shall have GFCI protection.  
> The article states that hardwired EVSE gets around this requirement since the 
> GFCI is contained but I don’t see that in the code book.  Anyway I have not 
> installed GFCI protection on EVSE circuits and don’t know of electricians 
> here that have since it causes nuisance trips.  The code looks like using a 
> 60A breaker is a loophole to get around this requirement as the Tesla EVSE 
> installation manual recommends (and the fact that Teslas can draw up to 48A 
> instead if the typical 30A others use).  
> Say does anyone know why there’s a 12” cord limit on portable EVSE?  That 
> seems silly unless they’re afraid it might lay on the floor in a water puddle.
> Best regards Mark
> https://www.seahurst.com/nema-14-50/
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] BYD EV's US available?

[Tom Keenan via EV]

There appears to be a couple of main reasons why BYD is not importing EVs to 
the US:
25% tariff on Chinese made EVs (initially put in place by Trump, and extended 
under Biden).
Chinese EVs are specifically exempted from qualifying for any rebates or 
incentives. 
BYD Likely does not meet US safety standards for items like glass, headlights, 
crash testing, etc. doesn’t mean that they are unsafe, but more likely that 
they just have not gone through the expensive process to have the parts listed 
and made specific to US standards. 
BYD itself feels that the US market is somewhat soft for EVs, as they don’t 
seem to be pursuing exporting to the US. 
Congressional resistance to have Chinese EVs in the US market will likely make 
any import attempts difficult and expensive. 
I’ve heard they importing a -European- vehicle can be problematic to import to 
the US, and imagine the process to import a single example of a Chinese EV 
would be at least that difficult - time consuming, expensive, and probably no 
viable source for parts (like glass, passenger restraints, tail light lenses, 
door locks, and a host of other parts) that would make it a compliant 
road-worthy vehicle. 
Other items, such as the Chinese-standard charging inlet, would need to be 
re-wired to work with CCS/J1772, and the charging system might need to be 
adapted as well - not sure how the Chinese GB/T connector system communicates 
between the EVSE and the vehicle. 

Tom Keenan

> On Apr 25, 2024, at 12:55 PM, Mark E. Hanson via EV  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill etc
> 
> 
> 
> Are BYD chinese EVs available in the US?  I haven't seen any nearby.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes doing conversions was about 600 hours labor (for me baking
> controller/charger from scratch) and $15K parts (in the 90's) and you'll
> never have something as reliable or the performance of a factory EV with
> thousands of engineering hours & crash testing.
> 
> 
> 
> Have a renewable energy day,
> 
> 
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Mark E. Hanson
> 
> 184 Vista Lane
> 
> Fincastle, VA 24090
> 
> 540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell
> 
> REEVA: community service RE & EV project club
> 
> Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery)
> 
> UL Certified PV Installer
> 
> My RE Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh
> 
> REEVA Demo:   http://youtu.be/4kqWn2H-rA0
> 
> 
>  75b8d/signature> Fincastle Solar Weather Station
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2024 05:27:50 +1200
> 
> From: Bill Dube mailto:billd...@killacycle.com> >
> 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org 
> 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] '91 BMW 318i conversion to electric
> 
> Message-ID:   >
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> 
> 
> What is important to keep in mind is that BYD is is now offering a
> Corrola-sized EV for about $15k.
> 
> https://electrek.co/2024/02/19/byd-launches-15k-qin-plus-ev-kicking-off-pric
> e-war-gas-cars/
> 
> 
> 
> It is impossible to build your own EV for even double this price, even
> getting all the labor for free.
> 
> 
> 
> It would likely be less expensive to buy a brand new $15k BYD and move all
> the components into your motorless BMW. Seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> In "days of yor" there were no OEM EVs to be bought, so we built them
> ourselves. This is no longer the case.
> 
> 
> 
> Bill D.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] want soc spread sheet

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Can the SOC for a 40kWh conversion be calculated from the canbus gids data 
packet? Or are gids only oriented to the original battery size?

Tom Keenan

> On Mar 12, 2024, at 8:03 AM, Zeke Yewdall via EV  wrote:
> 
> I am not sure about the leaf batteries in particular, but my experience
> with lithium batteries in general is that voltage cannot be used to
> determine SOC for most of the range between 20% and 90% SOC.  The curve is
> just too flat to be meaningful.  Above 90% and below 20% it gets steeper
> and may give some useful info.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Mar 11, 2024 at 9:15 PM EV List Lackey via EV 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 11 Mar 2024 at 20:14, redscooter via EV wrote:
>>> 
>>> can someone make a spreadsheet
>> 
>> What's your budget?  Maybe you could hire a skilled contractor through a
>> "microtask" website.
>> 
>> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>> 
>> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
>> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>> 
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> 
>> Endless loop: See loop, endless.
>> 
>> Loop, endless: See endless loop.
>> 
>> -- Stan Kelly-Bootle, "The Devil's DP Dictionary"
>> 
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> 
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