Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
Hi Andrew, On 26 Jun 2009, at 9:22 PM, Andrew Moschou wrote: If it's not the next best thing, then what do you propose is better that it, but not as good as vertically centred text? I didn't mean "this is not the next best thing" literally. My point was that the solution you propose is not at all comparable to just selecting the option for vertically centered text. You will need to do some calculation: Call the page height p (say 9"), the top margin t (say 0.5") and the bottom margin b (say 0.75"). Call the font size a (say 96 pt), this is the distance from bottom of descender to top of ascender. No, it isn't. There are differences between glyphs. Some are taller than others. Some have descenders, some don't, etc. There is no need to open the font in a font editor, Yes there is -- see above. Regardless, even once I know the actual height of the character (or lines of text) I'm trying to center vertically, having to run these calculations is an enormous pain in the ass. Finale's had vertically centered text for as long as I've been using the application -- there's no reason why Sibelius shouldn't be able to do this quickly and easily and without the user having to break out a calculator. Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: was WHAT Sibelius can't do
John, you can use the similar combinations to move your cursor around as well. Just don't use the Shift, as that does the selecting of the text. eg Ctrl-Arrow will move the cursor a word at a time. I just hold my thumb on the right Ctrl key and use my little finger on the left or right arrow key. After a while it becomes second nature, which helps to explain my frustration when using a Mac. Have fun Frank 2009/6/27 John Howell > At 2:18 PM +1000 6/27/09, Frank Prain wrote: > >> Long-time lurker here. I had to jump in to say that on a PC it's perfectly >> possible to select text in Word (and many other programs) using >> combinations >> of the Ctr and Shift keys and the Home and End keys and the left- and >> right-arrows. >> >> eg, Move cursor to where you want to start. To select to the end of the >> line, just hold the Shift key and hit End. Voila! >> Shift-Ctrl-End will select to the end of the document, etc. >> > > Hi, Frank, and thanks for that information. But i have to ask, how many > keystrokes would it take to more the cursor in the first place without using > the mouse at all? I doubt that I'd have the patience!!! But I haven't > tried it, so I guess I shouldn't knock it. > > > John > > > -- > John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music > Virginia Tech Department of Music > College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences > Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 > Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 > (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) > http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html > > "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition > of jazz musicians. > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: was WHAT Sibelius can't do
At 2:18 PM +1000 6/27/09, Frank Prain wrote: Long-time lurker here. I had to jump in to say that on a PC it's perfectly possible to select text in Word (and many other programs) using combinations of the Ctr and Shift keys and the Home and End keys and the left- and right-arrows. eg, Move cursor to where you want to start. To select to the end of the line, just hold the Shift key and hit End. Voila! Shift-Ctrl-End will select to the end of the document, etc. Hi, Frank, and thanks for that information. But i have to ask, how many keystrokes would it take to more the cursor in the first place without using the mouse at all? I doubt that I'd have the patience!!! But I haven't tried it, so I guess I shouldn't knock it. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: was WHAT Sibelius can't do
Long-time lurker here. I had to jump in to say that on a PC it's perfectly possible to select text in Word (and many other programs) using combinations of the Ctr and Shift keys and the Home and End keys and the left- and right-arrows. eg, Move cursor to where you want to start. To select to the end of the line, just hold the Shift key and hit End. Voila! Shift-Ctrl-End will select to the end of the document, etc. My experience with Macs has however been a bit different, although I understand you can get software which will emulate this behaviour. I try to use the mouse as little as possible and these short cuts allow for this. Hope this helps - cheers Frank 2009/6/27 John Howell > At 1:53 AM +0100 6/27/09, Owain Sutton wrote: > >> >> Measuring 'numbers of clicks' isn't a good way of rating productivity, >> however - I very rarely resort to the mouse to make such changes, in Word or >> in OpenOffice. >> > > Hi, Owain. This puzzles me. To change text formatting in Word, you first > have to select the text you want to change, right? That's a double click > (or more than one, or a sweep, but still it's done with the mouse). After > that, sure, I know the usual keyboard shortcuts in Word and use them all the > time, but you can't get completely away from the mouse. > > John > > > -- > John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music > Virginia Tech Department of Music > College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences > Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 > Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 > (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) > http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html > > "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition > of jazz musicians. > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: was WHAT Sibelius can't do
At 1:53 AM +0100 6/27/09, Owain Sutton wrote: Measuring 'numbers of clicks' isn't a good way of rating productivity, however - I very rarely resort to the mouse to make such changes, in Word or in OpenOffice. Hi, Owain. This puzzles me. To change text formatting in Word, you first have to select the text you want to change, right? That's a double click (or more than one, or a sweep, but still it's done with the mouse). After that, sure, I know the usual keyboard shortcuts in Word and use them all the time, but you can't get completely away from the mouse. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On Jun 26, 2009, at 9:16 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 26 Jun 2009 at 21:00, Kim Patrick Clow wrote: I have several friends that are graphic designers, and I'm in awe of watching them work in Photoshop or Illustrator without having to use the mouse at all. When I asked about it, they told me their productivity would shrink by 3/4 if they didn't have the keyboard shortcuts. And yet, the actual research on this subject completely contradicts that user perception. That is, Apple and Microsoft's usability labs have run the tests many times and mousing is faster than keyboarding. It's counterintuitive to me, but them's the facts. Yeah, but mousing is not faster when you start going into menus three layers deep, and have to aim and click a little button. A single, or even two or three, keystrokes is faster by far. Plus, the more you use a certain keystroke, the faster you get at it. Mousing speed reaches its upper limit quickly. It's made up for, though, by the mouse's ability to pick out an item among hundreds on a screen, and click-and-hold or click-and-drag, plus all other goodies a mouse GUI brings. THAT stuff is very slow with keystrokes, which may have skewed the results. Let's say that sometimes a mouse is faster, and sometimes the keystroke is faster. Maybe a mouse is faster ON AVERAGE, but I bet an experienced user using their own choices can beat the control groups handily. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 27 Jun 2009 at 2:20, Owain Sutton wrote: > David W. Fenton wrote: > > On 26 Jun 2009 at 21:00, Kim Patrick Clow wrote: > > > >> I have several friends that are graphic designers, and I'm in awe of > >> watching them work in Photoshop or Illustrator without having to use the > >> mouse at all. When I asked about it, they told me their productivity would > >> shrink by 3/4 if they didn't have the keyboard shortcuts. > > > > And yet, the actual research on this subject completely contradicts > > that user perception. That is, Apple and Microsoft's usability labs > > have run the tests many times and mousing is faster than keyboarding. > > > > It's counterintuitive to me, but them's the facts. > > And the tests run by third parties? I don't know. While one could say that Apple had an agenda, MS came late to that ballgame. Why would Apple and Microsoft have an incentive to misrepresent the research? What good would it do them to design their products to be less useful than they could be? -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
- 2009/6/27 Darcy James Argue > Hi Andrew > > On 26 Jun 2009, at 6:47 AM, Andrew Moschou wrote: > > You can do the next best thing and say put the text at 130 mm (or >> whatever) >> from the top margin. >> > > But this is not the "next best thing." If I want a 96 pt. page turn arrow > vertically and horizontally centered on a 9" tall page, what values do I > enter? Well, it depends how tall the font arrow glyph is. But how do I know > how tall it is? I would have to buy a font editor to find out. And then what > if the client decides they want 9.5" tall paper instead, mid-project? > > The whole UI for this is a bit absurd -- Finale can do this easily, > Siblelius makes me eyeball it. > If it's not the next best thing, then what do you propose is better that it, but not as good as vertically centred text? You will need to do some calculation: Call the page height p (say 9"), the top margin t (say 0.5") and the bottom margin b (say 0.75"). Call the font size a (say 96 pt), this is the distance from bottom of descender to top of ascender. Note that 72 pt = 1", so a = 96/72 = 1.333" and 1" = 25.4 mm. Now the distance from the top margin to put the text is: (p - t - b - n*a)/2 = (9 - 0.5 - 0.75 - 1*1.333)/2 = 3.208" = 3.208*2.54 = 81.5 mm, where n = 1. In my testing, I found that this calcuation is accurate to within about 2 millimetres. I don't know where the error came from. Note that this calculation applies to a single line text. If you have two lines of text, then set n = 2, etc. If you client wants decides to have 9.5" paper, then set p = 9.5 and recalculate the value. There is no need to open the font in a font editor, the point size of the text tells you how tall each line is. Andrew ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
David W. Fenton wrote: On 26 Jun 2009 at 21:00, Kim Patrick Clow wrote: I have several friends that are graphic designers, and I'm in awe of watching them work in Photoshop or Illustrator without having to use the mouse at all. When I asked about it, they told me their productivity would shrink by 3/4 if they didn't have the keyboard shortcuts. And yet, the actual research on this subject completely contradicts that user perception. That is, Apple and Microsoft's usability labs have run the tests many times and mousing is faster than keyboarding. It's counterintuitive to me, but them's the facts. And the tests run by third parties? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 26 Jun 2009 at 21:00, Kim Patrick Clow wrote: > I have several friends that are graphic designers, and I'm in awe of > watching them work in Photoshop or Illustrator without having to use the > mouse at all. When I asked about it, they told me their productivity would > shrink by 3/4 if they didn't have the keyboard shortcuts. And yet, the actual research on this subject completely contradicts that user perception. That is, Apple and Microsoft's usability labs have run the tests many times and mousing is faster than keyboarding. It's counterintuitive to me, but them's the facts. (BTW, those who think there's no keyboard equivalent of RIGHT-CLICK on Windows are wrong -- there's an entire key devoted to it on any standard Windows keyboard, including laptops) -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On Jun 26, 2009, at 5:43 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: The single button mouse has a command that is equivalent to the right click. I seem to recall it's some form of slow click, but I could be misremembering. Control/Click on Mac, David. Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Owain Sutton wrote: > > Measuring 'numbers of clicks' isn't a good way of rating productivity, > however - I very rarely resort to the mouse to make such changes, in Word or > in OpenOffice. Multiple clicks either indicates an unawareness of keyboard > shortcuts, or an unavailability of them for the software in question. > I have several friends that are graphic designers, and I'm in awe of watching them work in Photoshop or Illustrator without having to use the mouse at all. When I asked about it, they told me their productivity would shrink by 3/4 if they didn't have the keyboard shortcuts. Thanks Kim ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
John Howell wrote: At 7:07 PM -0400 6/26/09, David W. Fenton wrote: On 26 Jun 2009 at 23:50, Owain Sutton wrote: I can see how the regular use of a persistent 'properties' window makes sense for some users, who will be routinely modifying all sorts of details. I just experimented, using a Sib5 score I maintain for experimenting. I entered the word "arco" in Technique Text (a text class which automatically causes certain things to happen, in this case switching from pizz. to arco or back again). Using the Properties Window I very quickly changed that text to italic and then made it bold. Piece of cake, and a total of 3 clicks since I have the Properties Window open anyhow for the project I'm now working on. (It can be made more or less transparent, by the way.) Measuring 'numbers of clicks' isn't a good way of rating productivity, however - I very rarely resort to the mouse to make such changes, in Word or in OpenOffice. Multiple clicks either indicates an unawareness of keyboard shortcuts, or an unavailability of them for the software in question. (IIRC a long-standing principle of Microsoft was that all Windows software should be potentially fully controlled by the keyboard alone - which is particularly useful when, for example, a non-standard input device for people with a disability is being developed. As long as it can create all combinations of keystrokes, it'll work. Except with software which decides it knows better, and allows non-standard use of mouse clicks etc.) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 26 Jun 2009 at 20:23, John Howell wrote: > At 7:07 PM -0400 6/26/09, David W. Fenton wrote: > >On 26 Jun 2009 at 23:50, Owain Sutton wrote: > > > >> I can see how the regular use of a persistent 'properties' window makes > >> sense for some users, who will be routinely modifying all sorts of > >> details. > > I just experimented, using a Sib5 score I maintain for experimenting. > I entered the word "arco" in Technique Text (a text class which > automatically causes certain things to happen, in this case switching > from pizz. to arco or back again). Using the Properties Window I > very quickly changed that text to italic and then made it bold. > Piece of cake, and a total of 3 clicks since I have the Properties > Window open anyhow for the project I'm now working on. (It can be > made more or less transparent, by the way.) > > Of course I didn't know I could do this until someone HERE mentioned > it within the last 24 hours, but I can and I did and it worked > exactly as I wanted it to! > > Am I wrong, or isn't arguing about the way two different development > teams chose to implement any particular action something less than > helpful? Yes, of course it's helpful. Applications should implement features in a way that is consistent with the platform the application is running on: > And as far as the Windows GUI goes, those of us who have never used > Windows at all couldn't care less, But those of us running Windows want an application that uses Windows UI conventions, just as you want an app that uses Mac UI conventions. This is not a triviality -- an app should not feel "foreign" to the OS it's running on. If it does, it's more difficult for users to learn and use. > and most Mac users don't even have > multi-button mice (although I do happen to have one). Oh, come on! That dogma went out the window years ago! > So complaining > about what right-clicks do or do not do isn't very useful either. The single button mouse has a command that is equivalent to the right click. I seem to recall it's some form of slow click, but I could be misremembering. > Of COURSE any software will do things in one way or in another, and > one of the most persistent complaints I've read on this List is the > way functions in Finale have been moved around from one version to > the next. As David Bailey has so calmly pointed out, maybe Finale > does exactly what you need, or maybe Sibelius does, or maybe neither > one of them does (especially in contemporary or non-measure-attached > notation), but complaining just because they're different strikes me > as something of a waste of time and effort. This is a very different kind of discussion. Applications should follow well-established UI conventions for the platforms on which they are running. Right click for properties on Windows is a UI requirement, not something that is optional. That Finale is inconsistent in implementing it is not an excuse for Sibelius to get it wrong. > >I suspect that Sibelius is not as rigid as it's being made out to be, > >and that Finale users like me who've found it frustrating have just > >not figured out how Sibelius conceptualizes the desired tasks. > > The best summary I've seen, David. A beginner would no doubt say > exactly the same thing about Finale, coming from, say, Mosaic, or > Music Construction Set!! Or Score, for that matter. But let me repeat that there are basic OS UI conventions that should be respected. Whether or not the Mac version exposes the properties dialog via an easily accessible shortcut menu is really irrelevant -- on Windows, that is the way it ought to be, because that's the standard for the OS and has been so for a very, very long time. Discoverability depends on consistency with user expectations, and failing to implement a properties dialog that is accessible via a shotcut menu is not helpful for discoverability. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
At 7:07 PM -0400 6/26/09, David W. Fenton wrote: On 26 Jun 2009 at 23:50, Owain Sutton wrote: I can see how the regular use of a persistent 'properties' window makes sense for some users, who will be routinely modifying all sorts of details. I just experimented, using a Sib5 score I maintain for experimenting. I entered the word "arco" in Technique Text (a text class which automatically causes certain things to happen, in this case switching from pizz. to arco or back again). Using the Properties Window I very quickly changed that text to italic and then made it bold. Piece of cake, and a total of 3 clicks since I have the Properties Window open anyhow for the project I'm now working on. (It can be made more or less transparent, by the way.) Of course I didn't know I could do this until someone HERE mentioned it within the last 24 hours, but I can and I did and it worked exactly as I wanted it to! Am I wrong, or isn't arguing about the way two different development teams chose to implement any particular action something less than helpful? And as far as the Windows GUI goes, those of us who have never used Windows at all couldn't care less, and most Mac users don't even have multi-button mice (although I do happen to have one). So complaining about what right-clicks do or do not do isn't very useful either. Of COURSE any software will do things in one way or in another, and one of the most persistent complaints I've read on this List is the way functions in Finale have been moved around from one version to the next. As David Bailey has so calmly pointed out, maybe Finale does exactly what you need, or maybe Sibelius does, or maybe neither one of them does (especially in contemporary or non-measure-attached notation), but complaining just because they're different strikes me as something of a waste of time and effort. I suspect that Sibelius is not as rigid as it's being made out to be, and that Finale users like me who've found it frustrating have just not figured out how Sibelius conceptualizes the desired tasks. The best summary I've seen, David. A beginner would no doubt say exactly the same thing about Finale, coming from, say, Mosaic, or Music Construction Set!! Or Score, for that matter. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 26 Jun 2009 at 23:50, Owain Sutton wrote: > I can see how the regular use of a persistent 'properties' window makes > sense for some users, who will be routinely modifying all sorts of details. I haven't seen the exact implementation of this persistent properties window, but it reminds me of the highly annoying "task pane" that Microsoft introduced in Office XP, continued through Office 2003 and then almost eliminated in Office 2007. If find the non-dialogue-based interaction with the task pane extremely frustrating (Word 2003's mail merge just baffles me). And Microsoft realized there was something dreadfully off with their UI, which is why they made the huge change to the ribbon interface. Whether or not you think this was a good idea is another issue. > However, I think what is the unspoken query here is "Why can't I change > the appearance of text as easily as in Word?" In other words, drop-down > boxes. Yes, Word automatically assigns styles according to what you > choose, but 99%+ of users never notice this. (Whether that's a success > of the 'style' implementation or a criticism, I'm not sure.) Microsoft makes it possible to do things in multiple ways, either directly interacting with a particular piece of text, or altering the properties of a whole class of text objects that have a style applied to them. This is a good way to do things, as you sometimes need to override the basic style for a particular instance. This should be easy to do, not something that is complicated by the style interface. If MS had insisted on using its style editing interface (which has always been pretty hideous), everybody's Word documents would have been in 10 point Times New Roman! Styles are very powerful. But they take a lot of planning, and it's sometimes not worth it to have to go through that level of thought just to get a quick-and- dirty result. I admire the application of styles to music layout. Certainly Finale suffers from its over-flexibility (i.e., complete lack of enforcement of consistency), but rigidity is just as much a problem. I suspect that Sibelius is not as rigid as it's being made out to be, and that Finale users like me who've found it frustrating have just not figured out how Sibelius conceptualizes the desired tasks. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
I can see how the regular use of a persistent 'properties' window makes sense for some users, who will be routinely modifying all sorts of details. However, I think what is the unspoken query here is "Why can't I change the appearance of text as easily as in Word?" In other words, drop-down boxes. Yes, Word automatically assigns styles according to what you choose, but 99%+ of users never notice this. (Whether that's a success of the 'style' implementation or a criticism, I'm not sure.) DANIEL CARNO wrote: Hi David, No, Sibelius menus cannot be configured; just access to them can be altered via keystrokes. The properties menu cannot be accessed via the context menu for a given object. It remains a separate window. Maybe next upgrade Dan -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of David W. Fenton Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 5:45 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: RE: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do On 26 Jun 2009 at 16:53, DANIEL CARNO wrote: First of all, you can right-click directly on an object in Sibelius and bring up the context menu. Standard Windows UI is that the context menu include PROPERTIES at the bottom of it. Are the Sibelius menus configurable? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
Christopher Smith wrote: On Jun 26, 2009, at 2:41 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi guys, Sibelius's Daniel Spreadbury monitors the Finale list so he emailed me with additional info. HOLY CRAP! (sorry for the strong language. Actually, not really.) Man, this is the kind of support we want from our notation software of choice, isn't it? He even monitors the COMPETITION'S grassroots listserve for info about what pros are looking for, and to jump in and offer solutions when he ISN'T EVEN ASKED, and it isn't even his job at the company, really. I must say, it is things like this that kick me closer to the S camp, especially after the dismal upgrade of 2010 Christopher On a sidenote, I think there are many Sibelians over here and many Finalists over there... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
Hi David, No, Sibelius menus cannot be configured; just access to them can be altered via keystrokes. The properties menu cannot be accessed via the context menu for a given object. It remains a separate window. Maybe next upgrade Dan -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of David W. Fenton Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 5:45 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: RE: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do On 26 Jun 2009 at 16:53, DANIEL CARNO wrote: > First of all, you can right-click directly on an object in Sibelius and > bring up the context menu. Standard Windows UI is that the context menu include PROPERTIES at the bottom of it. Are the Sibelius menus configurable? -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
Hi Darcy, Hmm. I wonder if this is a platform difference? On my PC (Sib 5), when I right-click on a blank part of the score, I get the create menu. When I right click directly on title (or any other) text, I get a context menu that includes, among the usual items (cut, copy paste), hide/show, voice, color, etc. Sib 6 includes more items, but neither version includes properties (a weakness as far as I am concerned, since it does not allow for changing properties with macros). Dan -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of Darcy James Argue Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 5:47 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do Hi Dan, On 26 Jun 2009, at 4:53 PM, DANIEL CARNO wrote: > Interesting thread guys, > > First of all, you can right-click directly on an object in Sibelius > and > bring up the context menu. No you can't. At least not in Sibelius 5 for Mac. When I right-click on a piece of title text before left-clicking on it, I don't get the contextual menu for the title text. I get the generic contextual menu instead, which appears if you right-click on a blank portion of the score. To get the actual, you know, *contextual* menu for the title text, you need to select the title text first (by left-clicking), then right-click on it. Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
I'm with you here. The absence of consistent access to 'properties' in Finale context menus is one thing I'm regularly surprised by anew. They seem, instead, to be 'things we guess you might want to do' menus. Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 26.06.2009 David W. Fenton wrote: It's these kind of little details that always made it hard for me to even attempt to use Sibelius. Well, I don't see that Finale is any better in regarding UI standards. It has in fact been known for having a rather non-standard UI. Johannes ___ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On Jun 26, 2009, at 2:41 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi guys, Sibelius's Daniel Spreadbury monitors the Finale list so he emailed me with additional info. HOLY CRAP! (sorry for the strong language. Actually, not really.) Man, this is the kind of support we want from our notation software of choice, isn't it? He even monitors the COMPETITION'S grassroots listserve for info about what pros are looking for, and to jump in and offer solutions when he ISN'T EVEN ASKED, and it isn't even his job at the company, really. I must say, it is things like this that kick me closer to the S camp, especially after the dismal upgrade of 2010 Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
Hi Dan, On 26 Jun 2009, at 4:53 PM, DANIEL CARNO wrote: Interesting thread guys, First of all, you can right-click directly on an object in Sibelius and bring up the context menu. No you can't. At least not in Sibelius 5 for Mac. When I right-click on a piece of title text before left-clicking on it, I don't get the contextual menu for the title text. I get the generic contextual menu instead, which appears if you right-click on a blank portion of the score. To get the actual, you know, *contextual* menu for the title text, you need to select the title text first (by left-clicking), then right-click on it. Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 26 Jun 2009 at 16:53, DANIEL CARNO wrote: > First of all, you can right-click directly on an object in Sibelius and > bring up the context menu. Standard Windows UI is that the context menu include PROPERTIES at the bottom of it. Are the Sibelius menus configurable? -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Cleanup a hymn file...
Thanks to Cecil and those who have responded, got some answers and they are appreciated! noel jones On Jun 26, 2009, at 5:03 PM, Cecil Rigby wrote: Hi Noel- if you haven't had a response you're happy with yet I'd be glad to look your file over. I use FinWin09 & earlier versions as needed. -Cecil Rigby rig...@earthlink.net - Original Message - From: noel jones To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: [Finale] Cleanup a hymn file... I'm in a project and am not pleased with the look of the hymn pages that I am producing. If you do this kind of design tweaking and would like to have a look and give me a price for doing this, I can send a page. Drop me an email. noel jones noeljo...@usit.net ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] oops
'm I bad for replying onlist to Noel. Sorry, everyone. Cecil ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
Interesting thread guys, First of all, you can right-click directly on an object in Sibelius and bring up the context menu. The properties window is brought to the screen with a keyboard shortcut. Since Sibelius allows for re-mapping the keyboard to implement most of its features, I have programmed the letter "P" to bring up the properties box, instead of the Sibelius default, "Playback". Hope this clears a few things up. Dan Carno -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of David W. Fenton Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:33 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do On 26 Jun 2009 at 16:27, Darcy James Argue wrote: > Right-clicking in Sib (after left-clicking an object to select it) > does invoke a contextual menu, but "Properties" is not one of the > options. Two clicks is user-hostile and nonstandard behavior. Any click should select the object. It's these kind of little details that always made it hard for me to even attempt to use Sibelius. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Cleanup a hymn file...
Hi Noel- if you haven't had a response you're happy with yet I'd be glad to look your file over. I use FinWin09 & earlier versions as needed. -Cecil Rigby rig...@earthlink.net - Original Message - From: noel jones To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: [Finale] Cleanup a hymn file... I'm in a project and am not pleased with the look of the hymn pages that I am producing. If you do this kind of design tweaking and would like to have a look and give me a price for doing this, I can send a page. Drop me an email. noel jones noeljo...@usit.net ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 26.06.2009 David W. Fenton wrote: It's these kind of little details that always made it hard for me to even attempt to use Sibelius. Well, I don't see that Finale is any better in regarding UI standards. It has in fact been known for having a rather non-standard UI. Johannes ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 26 Jun 2009 at 16:27, Darcy James Argue wrote: > Right-clicking in Sib (after left-clicking an object to select it) > does invoke a contextual menu, but "Properties" is not one of the > options. Two clicks is user-hostile and nonstandard behavior. Any click should select the object. It's these kind of little details that always made it hard for me to even attempt to use Sibelius. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 26 Jun 2009 at 22:19, Torges Gerhard wrote: > Am 26.06.2009 um 22:12 schrieb David W. Fenton: > > > If there's a properties sheet that's not accessible on Windows via > > right click, then it's a nonstandard implementation of a properties > > sheet, and would confuse me, too. > > It's a floating window, like a palette in a painting program. > Always on top of other windows of the same program. And how do you retrieve or dismiss it? Regardless, it should be accessible via the standard UI convention, and on Windows, that is right clicking the object to get a shortcut menu that offers a PROPERTIES choice. There's nothing esoteric about that -- it's been the standard UI convention for this in Windows for almost 15 years. Failure to implement standard UI conventions is a user-hostile action on the part of programmers. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
I am one of the users who have Sibelius 5 for the client or two who requires that and use Finale (since 3.7.2 and now 2010) for most things. That withstanding, don't you all think it's pretty cool that Sibelius' product development man, while monitoring the Finale list, is willing to jump in and help?? Sure accentuates the difference in how Sibelius and MakeMusic treat their customers, doesn't it? Just a thought, now back to work Rick Neal Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi guys, Sibelius's Daniel Spreadbury monitors the Finale list so he emailed me with additional info. I've reproduced it below with my replies. -- Rick Neal Teacher, Composer, Arranger, Bassist, Guitarist rickm...@earthlink.net rickm...@gmail.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
Both, I am pretty sure (though I've not used Sibelius for Windows.) Right-clicking in Sib (after left-clicking an object to select it) does invoke a contextual menu, but "Properties" is not one of the options. For instance, if I left-click then right-click a bit of title text, my contextual menu has: Cut Copy Paste Delete Capture Idea Voice > Hide or Show > Color Reapply color You will notice there is nothing in there about either "Properties" or "Fonts." If I want to modify the font, I have to left-click the title text, open the Properties window, click the "Text" triangle to expand it, then choose the font from a pull-down menu. (Or go to Edit Text Styles and create or modify a Text Style.) Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY On 26 Jun 2009, at 4:12 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 26 Jun 2009 at 16:04, Darcy James Argue wrote: Objects in Sibelius can't be right-clicked to invoke Properties or a contextual menu. You have to open the Properties window, then left- click on the object, then open a bunch of disclosure triangles in the Properties window to see if what you want to do is there. On Mac or Windows? Or both? If there's a properties sheet that's not accessible on Windows via right click, then it's a nonstandard implementation of a properties sheet, and would confuse me, too. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
Hello David, Am 26.06.2009 um 22:12 schrieb David W. Fenton: If there's a properties sheet that's not accessible on Windows via right click, then it's a nonstandard implementation of a properties sheet, and would confuse me, too. It's a floating window, like a palette in a painting program. Always on top of other windows of the same program. Gerhard ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 26 Jun 2009 at 16:04, Darcy James Argue wrote: > Objects in Sibelius can't be right-clicked to invoke Properties or a > contextual menu. You have to open the Properties window, then left- > click on the object, then open a bunch of disclosure triangles in the > Properties window to see if what you want to do is there. On Mac or Windows? Or both? If there's a properties sheet that's not accessible on Windows via right click, then it's a nonstandard implementation of a properties sheet, and would confuse me, too. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
Hi David, Objects in Sibelius can't be right-clicked to invoke Properties or a contextual menu. You have to open the Properties window, then left- click on the object, then open a bunch of disclosure triangles in the Properties window to see if what you want to do is there. Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY On 26 Jun 2009, at 3:59 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 26 Jun 2009 at 15:30, Darcy James Argue wrote: The Properties window does not open by default when you launch Sib. It's not mentioned in any of the basic tutorials. It was a while before I even realized it existed. It seems obvious to me since the introduction of Windows 95 that if you want to manipulate the characteristics of anything at all on screen, you right click on it in hopes of getting a menu choice to view the object's properties. Perhaps this is a Windows thing, but it is bog standard UI on Windows that a properties dialog is a couple of clicks away for any clickable object. It takes up a lot of screen real estate so I tend to leave it closed when I work. It's context- sensitive, so you can't see all the things it is capable of controlling at a glance -- you have to select an object first to see what properties are available for modification. I don't quite understand why you'd want it to work any other way. It's certainly the convention for properties dialogs as implemented in Windows applications for 15 years or so (and it was present before that in MS Office 4.3, and before that in Borland's products, though it was called the "object inspector"). And when I am trying to do something I don't know how to do in an application I'm not 100% familiar with, I tend to look in the *menus* -- I don't think I'm that unusual in that regard. Certainly one of the Windows UI rules is that any shortcut menu should be accessible from the standard menu without the requirement for a right click (or the neglected properties button on any standard Windows keyboard). Many applications (including MS's own), and particularly Finale, ignore this rule, in fact, so I'd say you're certainly correct to expect a menu option in Sibelius to give you access to the properties sheet for whatever is currently selected. If a feature is not accessible via the menus, but only appears in a separate, context-sensitive window when you have precisely the right object selected, it's easy to overlook. It's certainly a very different UI philosophy from Finale. I would not be stymied by the lack of a menu choice. Indeed, I'd much more likely right click than go hunting for a menu choice. I guess this UI convention has not been around long enough for it to be second nature to Mac users. And it's yet another of those things that the computer software makers slip into to their products in the interest of making things EASY!!! and INTUITIVE, yet nobody ever gets any training on these aspects of of user interface. It's been that way since the advent of GUIs, where you're supposed to be able to figure it out, but you're out of luck if nobody has ever clued you into the secrets. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 26 Jun 2009 at 15:30, Darcy James Argue wrote: > The Properties window does not open by default when you launch Sib. > It's not mentioned in any of the basic tutorials. It was a while > before I even realized it existed. It seems obvious to me since the introduction of Windows 95 that if you want to manipulate the characteristics of anything at all on screen, you right click on it in hopes of getting a menu choice to view the object's properties. Perhaps this is a Windows thing, but it is bog standard UI on Windows that a properties dialog is a couple of clicks away for any clickable object. > It takes up a lot of screen real > estate so I tend to leave it closed when I work. It's context- > sensitive, so you can't see all the things it is capable of > controlling at a glance -- you have to select an object first to see > what properties are available for modification. I don't quite understand why you'd want it to work any other way. It's certainly the convention for properties dialogs as implemented in Windows applications for 15 years or so (and it was present before that in MS Office 4.3, and before that in Borland's products, though it was called the "object inspector"). > And when I am trying > to do something I don't know how to do in an application I'm not 100% > familiar with, I tend to look in the *menus* -- I don't think I'm that > unusual in that regard. Certainly one of the Windows UI rules is that any shortcut menu should be accessible from the standard menu without the requirement for a right click (or the neglected properties button on any standard Windows keyboard). Many applications (including MS's own), and particularly Finale, ignore this rule, in fact, so I'd say you're certainly correct to expect a menu option in Sibelius to give you access to the properties sheet for whatever is currently selected. > If a feature is not accessible via the menus, > but only appears in a separate, context-sensitive window when you have > precisely the right object selected, it's easy to overlook. It's > certainly a very different UI philosophy from Finale. I would not be stymied by the lack of a menu choice. Indeed, I'd much more likely right click than go hunting for a menu choice. I guess this UI convention has not been around long enough for it to be second nature to Mac users. And it's yet another of those things that the computer software makers slip into to their products in the interest of making things EASY!!! and INTUITIVE, yet nobody ever gets any training on these aspects of of user interface. It's been that way since the advent of GUIs, where you're supposed to be able to figure it out, but you're out of luck if nobody has ever clued you into the secrets. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
Hi David, The Properties window does not open by default when you launch Sib. It's not mentioned in any of the basic tutorials. It was a while before I even realized it existed. It takes up a lot of screen real estate so I tend to leave it closed when I work. It's context- sensitive, so you can't see all the things it is capable of controlling at a glance -- you have to select an object first to see what properties are available for modification. And when I am trying to do something I don't know how to do in an application I'm not 100% familiar with, I tend to look in the *menus* -- I don't think I'm that unusual in that regard. If a feature is not accessible via the menus, but only appears in a separate, context-sensitive window when you have precisely the right object selected, it's easy to overlook. It's certainly a very different UI philosophy from Finale. Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY On 26 Jun 2009, at 2:49 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 26 Jun 2009 at 14:27, Darcy James Argue wrote: Sib hides a lot of its more useful features in the Properties window. While I haven't used Sibelius, the idea that access to the properties of text would be "hidden" by putting them in the properties window seems completely absurd to me. A properties sheet is the first place I'd look! -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On Jun 26, 2009, at 11:18 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Thanks, that works for mid-document blank pages. But how about a blank page the end of a document? I still can't figure that one out. Pages are added automatically to the end when changing the layout or adding additional measures. You could have a page break that can simply be deleted. But there are ways in the layout menu to accomplish this. A font menu or panel! You know, like every other application ever. I want to select the text, then modify the font or font size. Finale even has keyboard shortcuts for modifying the font size. I agree. I would like to see a more direct way to control fonts and associated settings. The pull-down menu in Properties is really a time-consuming frustration if one has a lot of fonts. Heck, even Finale's Text box is better at this point. J D Thomas ThomaStudios ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 26 Jun 2009 at 14:27, Darcy James Argue wrote: > Sib hides a lot of its > more useful features in the Properties window. While I haven't used Sibelius, the idea that access to the properties of text would be "hidden" by putting them in the properties window seems completely absurd to me. A properties sheet is the first place I'd look! -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
Hi guys, Sibelius's Daniel Spreadbury monitors the Finale list so he emailed me with additional info. I've reproduced it below with my replies. HI Daniel, Thanks for your reply -- much appreciated. On 26 Jun 2009, at 2:25 PM, Daniel Spreadbury wrote: Hi Darcy, I happened to see this post of yours on the Finale mailing list and wanted to try to offer you some assistance: 1. To add a blank page at the end of the score, select the final barline, and choose Layout > Break > Special Page Break. In the dialog that appears, choose the number of pages, and away you go. Aha! It would not have occurred to me to select the final barline. I did a search for "blank page" in the manual, which did not turn up any helpful info. I see now that if I had searched for "blank pages" (plural), the "special page breaks" item is the fourth result, but it didn't occur to me that I'd get different results searching for "blank page" vs. "blank pages." 2. You can't centre text vertically on a page, Feature request please! but if you know your page dimension, you can create text that is vertically aligned halfway down the page via the Edit Text Styles dialog (notwithstanding your dislike of text styles!). Actually, this doesn't work for my purposes. I would need to know not just the page size but also the font height of whatever character or characters I am using. If I'm using multiple lines of text I'd need to know the total height of all of the lines. I don't dislike Text Styles! I just disliked having to create a new text style every time I wanted to modify the font or font size of a single element. (I didn't know this could be done via Properties.) 3. You can edit the font, style and size of any text object directly using the Text panel of Properties (switch on Window > Properties to see this). You can use this to e.g. change a single piece of text from 24pt to 27pt, or change its font, or make it bold, etc. Gotcha. Hope this helps, It does and is much appreciated. Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
Hi Andrew On 26 Jun 2009, at 6:47 AM, Andrew Moschou wrote: You can do the next best thing and say put the text at 130 mm (or whatever) from the top margin. But this is not the "next best thing." If I want a 96 pt. page turn arrow vertically and horizontally centered on a 9" tall page, what values do I enter? Well, it depends how tall the font arrow glyph is. But how do I know how tall it is? I would have to buy a font editor to find out. And then what if the client decides they want 9.5" tall paper instead, mid-project? The whole UI for this is a bit absurd -- Finale can do this easily, Siblelius makes me eyeball it. The normal header and footer text styles should work already and repeat across music and blank pages on left or right or both sides. This does not work for new pages added before the first page. I also always find it incredibly frustrating that there is no mechanism in Sibelius for directly changing the font and/or font size. Everything has to be done via Text Styles. It's in the Text pane of the Properties window, font and size selection and Bold, Italic, Underline attributes, which can be applied to any portion of the text. Ah, so *that* is where it is hidden! Thank you, that is extremely helpful. (I should have known to check there -- Sib hides a lot of its more useful features in the Properties window.) Text styles can be powerful when used exclusively, but we're not limited to them for good reason (otherwise text like "p cresc." would be impossible because "p" is in the music text font). I have always done that by using the keyboard shortcuts for the dynamic "p" and then typing cresc. -- or, when there is no keyboard shortcut, but selecting the needed symbol by right-clicking. I wasn't aware you could also do this via the Properties window, so thanks for the tip. Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 26 Jun 2009, at 6:01 AM, Torges Gerhard wrote: Hello Darcy, Am 26.06.2009 um 10:39 schrieb Darcy James Argue: I'm actually working in Sib 5 tonight. Here are some incredibly frustrating things that I couldn't get Sib to do: - insert a blank page in the middle of a document Easy. Insert a page turn (cmd-Enter), select its symbol and change it to "special page turn" in the properties window. You could make shortcut for that. Thanks, that works for mid-document blank pages. But how about a blank page the end of a document? I still can't figure that one out. - add a Text Style that aligns to the vertical center of a page (I use these for page number arrows) There already is one: Create -> text -> Empty pages test -> Simple text (centered) Nope, that is only centered *horizontally*, not vertically. - repeat the main headers (including page numbers) on added blank pages Works here automatically, though there are special text styles for it, too. This does not work for blank pages added to the beginning of a file. I also always find it incredibly frustrating that there is no mechanism in Sibelius for directly changing the font and/or font size. Everything has to be done via Text Styles. Hmm. What would be more "direct"? A font menu or panel! You know, like every other application ever. I want to select the text, then modify the font or font size. Finale even has keyboard shortcuts for modifying the font size. If I want to change a single bit of text from 24 pt. to 27. pt., I should not have to jump through all of these hoops to create or modify a Text Style. Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Sibelius 6 non-install
I have not been able to install Sib6 due to a 1935 error on my Vizzta machine. I tried on my wife's Vizzta and could not get it to run due to a known conflict;-( I have never had such problems with Finale. I own Sib to share things with friends, but it cannot be considered ptofessional music software. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Cleanup a hymn file...
I'm in a project and am not pleased with the look of the hymn pages that I am producing. If you do this kind of design tweaking and would like to have a look and give me a price for doing this, I can send a page. Drop me an email. noel jones noeljo...@usit.net ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
2009/6/26 Darcy James Argue > I'm actually working in Sib 5 tonight. Here are some incredibly frustrating > things that I couldn't get Sib to do: > >- insert a blank page in the middle of a document Layout > Break > Special Page Break... (or Ctrl+Shift+Enter shortcut) >- add a Text Style that aligns to the vertical center of a page (I > use these for page number arrows) You can do the next best thing and say put the text at 130 mm (or whatever) from the top margin. Be sure to use a system text style, based on Title, or Composer, etc, and not a staff text style like Technique or Expression. >- repeat the main headers (including page numbers) on added blank > pages The normal header and footer text styles should work already and repeat across music and blank pages on left or right or both sides. New text styles based on these will also work. To print the current page number, use the wildcard "\$PageNum\". I also always find it incredibly frustrating that there is no mechanism in > Sibelius for directly changing the font and/or font size. Everything has to > be done via Text Styles. It's in the Text pane of the Properties window, font and size selection and Bold, Italic, Underline attributes, which can be applied to any portion of the text. Text styles can be powerful when used exclusively, but we're not limited to them for good reason (otherwise text like "p cresc." would be impossible because "p" is in the music text font). Andrew ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
Hello Darcy, Am 26.06.2009 um 10:39 schrieb Darcy James Argue: I'm actually working in Sib 5 tonight. Here are some incredibly frustrating things that I couldn't get Sib to do: - insert a blank page in the middle of a document Easy. Insert a page turn (cmd-Enter), select its symbol and change it to "special page turn" in the properties window. You could make shortcut for that. - add a Text Style that aligns to the vertical center of a page (I use these for page number arrows) There already is one: Create -> text -> Empty pages test -> Simple text (centered) - repeat the main headers (including page numbers) on added blank pages Works here automatically, though there are special text styles for it, too. I also always find it incredibly frustrating that there is no mechanism in Sibelius for directly changing the font and/or font size. Everything has to be done via Text Styles. Hmm. What would be more "direct"? Gerhard ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 26 Jun 2009, at 4:39 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: - add a Text Style that aligns to the vertical center of a page (I use these for page number arrows) Er, page TURN arrows. Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
I'm actually working in Sib 5 tonight. Here are some incredibly frustrating things that I couldn't get Sib to do: - insert a blank page in the middle of a document - add a Text Style that aligns to the vertical center of a page (I use these for page number arrows) - repeat the main headers (including page numbers) on added blank pages I also always find it incredibly frustrating that there is no mechanism in Sibelius for directly changing the font and/or font size. Everything has to be done via Text Styles. Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] sibelius beams
Hi Dennis, You really ought to have contacted Daniel Spreadbury. Seriously. I never bother contacting anyone else from Sibelius. Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY On 26 Jun 2009, at 4:00 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Fri, June 26, 2009 1:04 am, Darcy James Argue wrote: Did you really never get it activated? I emailed Daniel Spreadbury and he was happy to set me up with an activation using only my Finale serial number. No activation. I remembered on this list that it was only a simple request, no manual-ripping -- but not so for me. At first Zac Johnson refused to activate it, then it went to Peter Filipowski who wrote, "Tearing 2 pages from a table of contents is hardly an act of defacing, especially if it is a book that most people don't read anyway (not too many people take time to read manuals)." I actually have all the manuals and installation disks (I think I even have 5-inch floppies) in new condition since 1993. The collector in me, I suppose. Before that, though, I had a frustrating exchange with tech support (Feb. 23 - March 3) even trying to get it to run; it would hang on the playback engine. There were several tech suggestions on their help site, but none worked. Apparently the program doesn't like some ASIO drivers, and they finally provided an ASIO blacklist file that let it run. But it's still a slow starter (and closer). Ultimately the time to register ran out, and it's a $99 file reader now. Way to reinforce my lack of enthusiasm. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] sibelius beams
On Fri, June 26, 2009 1:04 am, Darcy James Argue wrote: > Did you really never get it activated? I emailed Daniel Spreadbury and > he was happy to set me up with an activation using only my Finale > serial number. No activation. I remembered on this list that it was only a simple request, no manual-ripping -- but not so for me. At first Zac Johnson refused to activate it, then it went to Peter Filipowski who wrote, "Tearing 2 pages from a table of contents is hardly an act of defacing, especially if it is a book that most people don't read anyway (not too many people take time to read manuals)." I actually have all the manuals and installation disks (I think I even have 5-inch floppies) in new condition since 1993. The collector in me, I suppose. Before that, though, I had a frustrating exchange with tech support (Feb. 23 - March 3) even trying to get it to run; it would hang on the playback engine. There were several tech suggestions on their help site, but none worked. Apparently the program doesn't like some ASIO drivers, and they finally provided an ASIO blacklist file that let it run. But it's still a slow starter (and closer). Ultimately the time to register ran out, and it's a $99 file reader now. Way to reinforce my lack of enthusiasm. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
