Re: skylar
This message is from: Robin Churchill So sorry to hear . My deepest condolences on the loss of your friend. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Questions for people using slow feeders
This message is from: Robin Churchill I use busy bags and nibblenets for my horses and I have not had trouble with these particular horses tearing them up. I have the smallest hole bags that both of them make for the two fjords and find that although it slows them down some, they are still very proficient at getting the hay out of them. I generally feed timothy with some coastal mixed in because I am worried about the colic risk associated with feeding straight coastal. We used to have a hay around here called Tifton 85 that was not as fine as regular coastal but still a Bermuda-type hay that had less calories and sugar but we can't get it anymore. The local hay is called Pangola but even the fjords won't eat it unless you can get it right when it is cut and has some green in it. At least in my part of Florida, we just get what is available and can't keep large amounts of hay like the people in cooler climates and what is available is always changing depending what the stores get in.  Anyway to my questions: 1. What kind of hay are people generally feeding out of slow feeders?2. Do fjords really self-regulate if they have access to hay in a slow feeder at all times? 3. Do people who have things set up to give their horses access to hay in a slow feeder at all times generally keep them on a dry lot or stalled? I would like to find some way to make it less work for me and for the horses to be more satisfied but don't know how to do it without having them get so fat that they can't get through the barn door. Right now, I decide how much hay (by weight) I want them to have based on an appropriate percentage for their weights combined with how much grass is available for grazing and divide that into 3- 4 feedings (3 in summer when there is grass and 4 in winter when the grass is sparse due to the dry conditions here) which they get in the busy bags/nibblenets. By doing it this way, I keep their weights in check but it is a lot of work to fill multiple bags multiple times a day and they still have a fair amount of time without hay, although they do pick around at whatever grass is available when they are turned out which is pretty much all day in the winter. Thanks for any advice Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Fjords in Florida
This message is from: Robin Churchill Hi Lois, I think fjords in Florida are more work than a warm weather breed, but it is not insurmountable. I am way down on the southwest coast so it is much worse here than it would be in Lake city. You do end up clipping a lot in the beginning of the fall because it is still hot here. I don't know when it cools down in Lake City but it is hot until November here. I think it would be maybe the end of September there and it is much colder in the winter that far north because a lot the cold fronts reach there. Well I guess you are experiencing it now. I have had 5 fjords in this climate and some are worse in terms of coat thickness and growth than others. Some you may need to clip twice as often as others. They do grow less coat after they are here several years. The first fjord I had here had to be clipped into June the first year he was here. The next 2 years it was March and the last two years not after January or beginning of February. You usually need to start clipping sometime in the first 2 weeks of August depending on the horse. I live on a sandy property but have not had problems with sand colic. I feed out of busy bags or Nibblenets with mats underneath them and make sure I feed an adequate amount of forage which can sometimes be a challenge when trying to keep them from foraging around in the dirt/sand versus getting too fat. Sometimes you have to accept them a little heavier to prevent them from taking in too much sand. I manage weight by weighing hay, feeding at least some "diet" hay (which the horses are not always in favor of) and regular exercise.  I also use one of the pelleted psyllium products for one week every month to hopefully mitigate sand intake. In summer, it is imperative that you have adequate shade for fjords and other warmblood/draft type horses in the heat of the day. Because mine will not stay in the shade by their own volition, I lock them in the stalls in the afternoon with fans on from about July to October. They are turned out in the am, in in the afternoon, out in the evening and in at night because of the mosquitoes I have here.  I have had problems with anhidrosis both in my warmblood and in one of the fjords. I also use a supplement called True Sweat in the summer. Since starting True Sweat and putting them in during the heat of the day, I had no more problems with the fjords but I did have it again this past year with the warmblood when I stopped the True Sweat too soon. I know there are other people with fjords who are closer to where you would be and maybe they can weigh in on how much of a burden it is for them. I am looking forward to moving farther north hopefully in the next 2 or 3 years and getting out of this sauna.  Hope that helps, Robin in SW Fl Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Hoof Boots
This message is from: Robin Churchill For riding, with my warmblood, I have used both Boa boots (which I think they are not making anymore but you may still be able to find the occasional pair on closeout) I liked them because they are easy to put on and hold up well. Unfortunately, the wires in them break on a fairly regular basis (this may be because I also use them on this horse for turnout and someone just riding wouldn't have the problem so frequently) and have to be replaced which is not a huge deal but costs about $5. I have also used Cavallo sport boots which have been fine and are pretty easy to put on. My horse has the problem that one foot is bigger than the other and these are sold in pairs so sometimes it is a struggle to get the one on the bigger foot when it is close to time for a trim. These have held up ok but not great. I recently bought a pair of their new Trek boots which are also easy to put on and seem to fit better but have not used them yet. They are a bit more expensive than their other boots but I got some promotional deal on the pair I bought. With the Boas or the sport boots I have not had any problems with rubbing and have not used gators or anything like that with them. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Bring it back
This message is from: Robin Churchill I do Facebook for certain things but much prefer this list over the Facebook group just because it is such a large group and it really feels like this list serves a different purpose. I think maybe some people like Facebook because it allows posting of pictures and it is certainly fun to see everyone's fjords. In Florida, this is the best time of year for riding because usually we are spared some of the oppressive heat and humidity. I have been riding Magnus and Levi about 5 times a week and they are both making progress in their fitness and training. It is hard to make much headway in the summer here because you feel lucky that you and the horse can survive a 30 minute ride in August or September. We missed the closing date on the last schooling show which was this past weekend so didn't get out for that. I have to decide about more showing for the rest of the season. We went to a recognized show in August and a schooling show in November, both of which went well. Levi was off with a mild lameness issue for about 6 weeks that got better without being able to figure out exactly what it was in spite of a $1500 vet evaluation. He is back to full work now and seems fine. My big warmblood is sound and under saddle again. He has done much better since I pulled his shoes, switched farriers and put him on Prascend which is expensive but seems to do the job. We ride him in front hoof boots and I have had a lot less problems with his feet now that he no longer has shoes. He is going to be 20 years old in March which I wasn't sure he would see a couple years back. That's about it for SW Florida. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Bogie
This message is from: Robin Churchill Kay,So very sorry to hear about Bogie. My deepest condolences to you. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: We are new
This message is from: Robin Churchill Welcome to the group Jo Anne. I think most people would advise caution about having a fjord out on unlimited grass without a muzzle especially in more northern areas with cool season grass. I have used a muzzle on one mare I had and she didn't like it but she put up with it and I know a number of people in this group have used them. I have my fjords out most of the day but I live in Florida where the grass is nonexistent in the winter because it is too dry and my grass is a common bermuda which is not very rich. I manage our fjords weight by weighing their hay and feeding them out of busybags or nibblenets and exercising them. I just have a small place but I have a dressage arena and ride them both 4-5 times a week. I also cut back severely on the hay when the grass is heavier in the summer. They should have at least 1% of their body weight in forage daily as a minimum including what grass they eat. My fjords are about 900-950 lbs and get about 12-13 lbs of hay in the winter and probably 7 lbs in the summer. I have one gelding who is an easier keeper and I am considering muzzling him at least part of the day next summer because he does tend to gain about 30-50 lbs in the summer if I am not careful because in my experience, fjords are very heavy and efficient grazers and eat every blade of grass or hay they can get. If any of the barns you are looking at have a dry paddock that your mare could be in part of the day with hay and perhaps muzzling her on the grass would be an option or just restricting her time on grass so that she doesn't gain too much weight. I think the exercise they get being out of the stall is beneficial as well. Robin in Florida where this winter has been hot and humid so far--ugh From: Jo Anne Wylie To: "fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com" Sent: Sunday, January 4, 2015 9:30 AM Subject: We are new This message is from: Jo Anne Wylie We would like to introduce ourselves to you. I am Jo Anne, grandmother to Emily, age 13, who has had her fjord for a year and a half. Her horse, Emma came with that name and it has caused a bit of confusion. Emily kept her name Emma because, when she would arrive at the barn and call her name, she would look up and come right over to the fence, even when she was busy eating hay! Emily bought Emma from a lady's small backyard farm, here in Maryland, where she had bred and raised her for Emma's first three years. She came to us at least 200 lbs. overweight, and not worked very much, but she has a sweet disposition and a willingness to work. She is 14-3-1/2 hands and weighs 950 lbs now. She lost that 200 lbs. the first year with helpful advice from our barn owner/trainer, and her muscle development and hind-end impulsion has improved a good bit. Emma is very food oriented, she makes us think she is hungry all the time. The fields at the barn she is at have no grass, but hay is always available. We searched for a group like you because we have an issue we would like some advice on, and also because we thought it would be fun to follow other fjord stories. We have not met any other fjord owners in our area. Emily would like to change barns to one that has more space for her to ride in. Her current barn has some trails, but not long, and only one small ring, with no place else to get Emma moving. The barns we have looked at have lovely grass fields and we worry how to manage her weight and other possible complications from all her grazing. She does not like being in a stall, unless she is eating, and we have not tried to keep her in a stall for very long. She becomes very impatient! She has been field boarded and seems to enjoy her herd, although she is always the bottom rung. She currently gets hay pellets, vitamins, and about two teaspoons of Vetra Calm to help diminish her appetite. We are really afraid she would be frustrated with a grazing muzzle. What have you experienced with a muzzle? The only thing we have read is that it can cause fur damage if needed all the time. Do you have any other advice for us. We certainly do not want the problems that can happen from an overweight horse! Thanks for any advice you have, Jo Anne & Emily (written by Gram and Edited by Emily) Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Levi's update
This message is from: Robin Churchill Here is the link to the update of Levi's blog with several pictures and a few videos. I apologize for the bad videography. Some of it was on an iPhone and it was hard to see due to the lighting and also I got a brand new video camera and haven't quite got the hang of it completely. http://elix.ca/2014/09/first-place-in-his-first-show/ Cheers and Happy Fall, Robin in SW Florida where Magnus has already been clipped three times since the 2nd week of August and Levi twice but with fairly decent weather for Florida in September. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
RIP Gustav
This message is from: Robin Churchill So sorry to hear of the loss of your old friend. Although nothing takes away the acute pain of the loss that you feel, one thing that I did that helped me a few years ago when my favorite dog died was to make a video collage of photos set to music. I had never done anything like that before and somehow it helped for me to be able to share her life in photos with others who did not know her as well as I did. Also someone on the list, I don't recall now who, did something similar for their horse and it was really beautiful. If you don't have the time or energy for a project like that, as someone else mentioned, we would be interested in hearing your remembrances of Gustav. Deepest condolences, Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
question
This message is from: Robin Churchill If anyone on the lists live in the general area of either Sioux Falls, SD, Grand Rapids or Lansing Michigan or Albany N.Y. could you email me privately with information on resources for horses in your area. I have a friend that may be relocating to one of those areas. Thanks, Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: blankets
This message is from: Robin Churchill I always blanket mine because I keep them clipped. I have used different brands but have found that some of it depends on how the particular horse is built specifically how the neck is set and how broad the chest and shoulders are. I have used weatherbeeta, Rambo, Hug,Dover brand and others and some of them seem to slip down too far on the shoulders on certain horses. Last winter I actually traded Levi and Magnus' blankets because some that slipped down on Magnus didn't do it on Levi and he definitely the lighter built horse. I think I've had the best luck with Rambo (kind of expensive but last forever) and weatherbeeta, although some people really like the hugs. Robin in still hot Florida Sent from my iPhone > >> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 16:56:59 -0400 >> From: jhalst7...@aol.com >> Subject: Blankets >> >> This message is from: jhalst7...@aol.com >> I need some advice on what kind of blanket I should buy for my fjord > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
[no subject]
This message is from: Robin Churchill Hi everyone from boiling, muggy, buggy Southwest Florida, I thought some of you may be interested in an update about a horse that some of you followed on a blog that was posted by Lori Albrough as she retrained him from October 2011 to July 2012. Most of you know this horse by his barn name, Levi. Levi is a 2006 (Felix X Nagia) fjord gelding bred by Marg Kerr, and sold as an untrained horse. He had an unsuccessful first training experience with his first owner and her chosen trainer and was retrained by Lori Albrough. I purchased him in July 2012 and have been working with him since that time. After his initial adjustment period, he has made very good progress and this weekend went to his first show--a recognized dressage show at Fox Lea Farms which is the main show venue on the more southern west coast of Florida. We could not be more proud of him as he won his class with a 65.5% at Training Level with a rider for whom this was also her first recognized dressage show ! He was completely good and did not put a foot wrong. In fact, my other gelding who I rode in the show, and is the same age, was much more difficult, despite having been out more than Levi. It was also Magnus' first recognized dressage show, but he has been to a few schooling shows before, whereas Levi had not ever been to a show of any kind before this one. We are anticipating more success with this guy, as he really seems to take going places pretty much in stride and actually sometimes seems to work better away than at home. It seems to kind of "wake him up" a bit without causing him to be out of control. Since we started taking him to clinics and now to a show, he is seeming to take his job much more seriously. I have asked Lori to update his blog with some pictures and maybe even a little video if possible, and will post the link when the update is available. Keep cool, Robin in southwest Florida Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Fjord in Dressage Today
This message is from: Robin Churchill I love my fjords and have always done dressage with them. I did not take offense to what was said in the section because basically it is true and I don't think it was said in a way meant to insult the breed. To my knowledge, there have been very few fjords that have made it successfully to the FEI levels of dressage in North America. I know Anne Appleby had one horse that was successful at Grand Prix and at least a couple others that made it to 4th level or above. I don't know any fjords that are showing at Grand Prix now, but maybe I just missed them. There have been a smattering of fjords that I know of that have been shown successfully 3rd level or above. The very talented Prisco with Lori Albrough is one and I can't name any others. There are, of course, more that have shown at 2nd level and I can think of at least a few of those. Many fjords do have shorter necks, thicker throat latches and bigger shoulders that make the movements more difficult. Doesn't mean they can't do them necessarily but it takes a lot of work and consistent, correct training to get them to do it. In recent years, I have seen some fjords that conformationally are more suitable for dressage with longer legs and necks and perhaps a little lighter build, but in addition to the conformation, they have to have a rider who wants to do dressage and is skilled enough or can hire a trainer who can take the horse up the levels. I would say the majority of people who can do it easily aren't that interested in riding a fjord. The other thing to consider, if you change the conformation too much, you may end up with something that is no longer a fjord as we think of them. Speaking from personal experience, it is very much different being able to do the movements of a level at home versus riding a successful test of that level at a show. I don't think Suzanne von Dietze is saying that fjords can't do dressage, she is just pointing out some challenges that they and their riders face. In fact, I think she was quite complementary about the breed and about the particular horse she is evaluating and explains some training tips to overcome some of the challenges that this rider may face with her horse. If it was easy to do dressage with a fjord, everybody would be doing it and the shows would be filled with little yellow horses instead of big, brown horses. At the Florida shows I have been to, I have the only fjord and if there is a second fjord, I brought it, too. I haven't made it over to the east coast shows that Bonnie Dobson goes to, only the west coast and Wellington. That is just my take on her photo critique "clinic". I also thought the fjord in the picture was lovely and ridden very nicely. Robin in SW Florida where the typical hot, muggy, buggy summer weather is upon us Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Prascend vs. Compounded pergolide
This message is from: Robin Churchill My 19 year old warmblood is on Prascend. He was initially started on 1 mg and he shed out his long coat very soon after it was started. He is a big horse and is now on 2 mg and is doing well. He has a history of chronic laminitis and his feet are the best they have been for several years. The Prascend is pretty expensive. The cheapest legitimate place to get it I could find was Valley Vet and to buy the larger pack which is 160 tablets. If I remember correctly, my vet said the liquid pergolide is very unreliable in terms of the amount of bioavailable drug. I think there are other forms of generic pergolide available but since my horse was doing well on this, I decided to stick with it. I know the starting dose for Prascend is 1 mg and I would assume that the bioavailable drug would be more consistent than the compounded formulations. I hope that helps. Robin On Saturday, June 21, 2014 7:19 PM, Jane Brackett wrote: This message is from: Jane Brackett Cushings question. Geilo, our 21 yr old Fjord has had cushings for a few years. We've used a locally compounded pergolide, however his last blood test showed the highest ATCH levels yet (437). We have a new vet since our old one has retired and she suggested we switch to Prascend since she felt the compounded was inconsistent. Geilo has been on 1.5 mg but she also lowered his dosage to 1 mg of the prascend and wants to recheck his levels in a couple of months. Have others switched and found the prascend to be more effective at lower doses? Thanks Jane Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Turnout on wooded acreage
This message is from: Robin Churchill I agree with Mary that you need to make sure that none of the trees are poison and with Amy that they don't bear some sort of nut or fruit that will make the horses colic, founder or get fat as pigs eating it. I have a lot of trees on my property and we have something called java plum that makes thousands of fruits and the horses like it and I have had one colic the first year we lived here when I didn't really know what it was. Also that seems like a lot of horses for that much acreage. I have 2 fjords and a warmblood on 6.5 acres that has a house, barn and small lake and I don't think it is enough room for them. I feed them plenty of hay and they still completely destroy the grass. Robin in Florida On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 3:41 PM, Cindy B Giovanetti wrote: This message is from: Cindy B Giovanetti The problem isn't the woods, it's the fallen trees. If they were to take off running, would they be able to maneuver without injuring themselves? Cindy > > Why exactly would wooded pasture present a problem? Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Curious fjords
This message is from: Robin Churchill My fjords and my warmblood will follow and push around anything that comes into their pasture including turtles, raccoons and iguanas and the resident barn cat. Robin in Florida Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Free used paddock boots
This message is from: Robin Churchill If anyone would be interested in a pair of used black leather lace-up Ariat paddock boots size 61/2, I will send them to use for the shipping cost. They fit in a medium flat rate shipping box. These are several years old but haven't been worn much. I don't think they have any dry rot --the soles seem to be tight, but of course can't guarantee it. I don't know why I have them, I don't really wear paddock boots and when my foot was broken, I got a pair of zip paddock boots and have no need for these any more. Email me privately if interested and we can exchange addresses. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Bit rubs
This message is from: Robin Churchill I use Vaseline in the corners of my horses mouths every day and never have cracks or rubs but don't use driving bits. Do driving bits have bit guards like some of the hunter people use? Robin where it went from 38 to 50 in about an hour this morning Sent from my iPhone Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Getting horses to drink in cold weather
This message is from: Robin Churchill We usually don't have this problem where I live but I take something we do in very hot weather and also use it when the weather is cold. I know some people are going to laugh and think we are crazy (which is probably not far from the truth) but in my part of Florida, we give our horses Gatorade in the hot weather after work when they have sweated a lot. I add electrolytes to it because the amount of Gatorade we give is not really for electrolyte replacement. After work, we give them an 8 quart bucket with 2 or 3 scoops of the powder. I use the lemon-lime, orange or blue so when they splash it on you, your clothes don't get stained. In the winter, if it gets below 50 at night which is cold for us, they really slow down their drinking so I throw a couple scoops in one of their water buckets at night and the bucket is empty in the morning. This also works if you want them to drink on the trailer or at a show. Any drink powder can be used, in fact, I have used crystal light for my warmblood that has had laminitis in the past. The downside is that some of them like it so much that they become almost crazed when they smell it or think you are making a bucket or giving some to another horse so the rule here is that they don't get it until they are rinsed or sponged and ready to be turned out and they have to stand politely without pawing or being rude in the crossties. Robin in chilly, windy SW Florida where it hasn't gotten out of the mid 60's for the past couple days and it is going to get in 30s tonight. Brrr--I know we're a bunch of wimps. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Fjords and cold
This message is from: Robin Churchill >> All the other horses (it seems) in the state were bundled up in blankets and put in barns. My 2 fjord girls partied all night in the pasture.They were fluffed up w/their wooly coats and in great spirits.<< I think it all depends on what temperature your horses are used to and whether your horses are clipped or not. I'm sure if they have their natural coats then they wouldn't need blankets in Florida or a lot of other places, even for the recent cold snap. Mine are clipped short from August to whenever in the spring they stop growing winter coats, so I generally put sheets on them if it's below 60 and light or medium weight blankets if it is below 50, depending on how low it is supposed to go. Mine are used to temperatures generally ranging from about 60-90 degrees most of the time. I'm sure they could probably survive if I didn't, but I am also trying to deter them from growing more hair than they already do. You can even see that short hair puff up when it gets the least bit cool around here. I am looking forward to moving in a little more northern direction when my husband retires but for now, the fjords and I are stuck in south Florida like it or not. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: RFDTV gentle giants
This message is from: Robin Churchill You can watch it again right now on KTLA website. The fjords are about to be on again in a few minutes Robin Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Kim Manzoni wrote: > This message is from: Kim Manzoni > > > Had some drama here at home unfortunately so I missed the parade. > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: RFDTV gentle giants
This message is from: Robin Churchill I agree that it seemed like the camera was on them a very short time esp compared to some of the floats Robin Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2014, at 1:14 PM, Carol Makosky wrote: > This message is from: Carol Makosky > > >> I was somewhat disappointed that the coverage of the Fjords in the parade >> was considerably less than other horse units. >> >> Important FjordHorse List Links: >> Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e >> FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw >> FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l >> >> >> >> > > > -- > "God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses." > R.B. Cunningham Graham > > Built Fjord Tough > Carol M. > On Golden Pond > N. Wisconsin > Home of Heidi, > The Wonder Pony > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
RE: Rose Parade video suggestion
This message is from: Robin Churchill I was just thinking that I would be interested in a DVD showing the fjords in the parade because we don't watch TV, don't have cable or even an antennae set up and I don't really have time to sit down and watch a whole parade to probably see a very short view of what I'm interested in seeing. Maybe some others would be interested also. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Dressage Today Magazines
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have a boatload of Dressage Today Magazines going back years. I always think I am going to go back and look at them again but I never do. If anyone is interested in some or all of them, I will send them to you for the price of shipping and I guess they could go magazine rate (I don't know how much that is). If no one wants them then I think it is time for them to go to the recyclers. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Mare
This message is from: Robin Churchill Why can't she separate them temporarily with temporary electric fence rather than let the mare get beat up until she can find a place for her? I do it at my place all the time when I want to keep my horses out of something like standing water, java plums etc. I'm sure she wants to get rid of the mare at some point but some people don't seem to have any problem solving ability. Sorry to be blunt but that is ridiculous. Robin Sent from my iPhone Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
vaccine reactions
This message is from: Robin Churchill But the vaccine that I've had horses most often have a local reaction to is the Flu/Rhino, so I give that one only to horses who are going off farm and prefer to do it intra-nasal if possible. If IN is not possible then the vet gives some banamine at the time of injection hopefully to head off any pain/swelling. As Lori points out above, the vaccine with the highest rate of reactions is flu/rhino. I have had problems with Magnus with that one and sometimes it may be the vaccine adjuvant not the vaccine itself. This year, my vet separated it out and we are going to pretreat with Benadryl and Banamine as Magnus gets a nasty case of hives with it although they don't really seem to bother him. Nevertheless, I don't like it when he gets them so have decided to see if we can avoid it. In fact, he is coming to give that one to Magnus tomorrow so we will see if the pretreatment works. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Rabies
This message is from: Robin Churchill Regarding the horse Finlay that Beth mentioned, many people are not aware of the importance of rabies vaccination or they just assume the horse got it with his spring or fall shots or if someone sells them a horse and says the "shots are up-to-date" (which was the case with the horse that I mentioned here in FL--the people just assumed the horse had been vaccinated). If you buy a horse, you should always ask to see the records so you really know what the horse has had. If you cannot obtain the records, I would assume they have not been vaccinated. When I bought both of my horses, I made sure the flu-rhino, encephalitis vaccines and rabies vaccines were up-to-date before they were shipped. I guess I do not understand why veterinarians are not more proactive about recommending the rabies vaccine and educating their clients as to the importance, particularly because they are putting themselves at risk when they attend to a rabid horse since sometimes it is not clear what the problem is at the beginning of the illness. Most vets have been vaccinated, but I will bet the majority of them let their boosters lapse and at least here, they do not wear appropriate personal protective equipment when working with a horse with an unknown illness. It is also more expensive if they let the boosters lapse because I think if they are up to date and they are exposed they just need one booster but if they are not they have to get 2 or 3 if I remember correctly. My vet was the one who worked with the horse here and was vaccinated but had not kept his boosters up to date. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Rabies vaccine?
This message is from: Robin Churchill I am a pediatric infectious diseases specialist and I have always vaccinated all my horses for rabies every year with no problems. Horses can and do get rabies and it is a significant problem when a horse contracts rabies because many people can be exposed before it is determined the horse is infected, if it is determined at all. There has never been an actual documented case of rabies transmission from a horse to human but because rabies is essentially a fatal disease no one wants to take a chance and there is a first time for everything. If your horse contracts rabies, there is no treatment, the horse will die. If you or anyone else is exposed and that means exposed to the horses saliva, it doesn't have to actually bite you, then it will be recommended that you undergo post-exposure prophylaxis. Currently if you are not bitten, it consists of 1 injection of rabies immunoglobulin (if you are bitten, the immunoglobulin is injected in the tissue around the bite which patients love) and 4 injections of rabies vaccine given on days 0, 3, 7, and 14 after the exposure. This is very effective, but it is inconvenient and if your health department no longer provides it as ours here does not due to budget cuts, it is very expensive and I mean in thousands of dollars for this treatment if you do not have insurance or your insurance does not cover it. This past year in our county of Florida there were 2 cases of rabid horses and I was involved with one of them. We had to vaccinate 18 people who were exposed to that one horse. In my opinion, that was a total waste of health care resources when it could have all been avoided if the horse had been vaccinated because the rabies vaccine is safe and effective. Also, there was some mumbling about who was responsible for the fact that the horse was not vaccinated since some of the exposed persons incurred bills of $10 - 15,000 for the post-exposure prophylaxis, like they were considering consulting a lawyer. I don't know that that went anywhere, but keep in mind, people tend to be litigious in our country and even if it doesn't go anywhere, it is a significant pain and expense to be sued. The reason we don't have more rabies in humans in the US is because of the requirement for vaccination of dogs and cats, which is not the case in some developing countries. Any vaccine can cause a reaction but almost never is a vaccine going to kill your horse like rabies definitely will if he/she contracts it. I also know a relative of one of my former relatives by marriage who bought a draft mare somewhere around WV and the horse fell ill and ended up dying on the way to Ohio State with rabies. Same deal with the prophylaxis, everyone who came in contact with the horses saliva had to be vaccinated. Robin in Florida where the weather is cooling down somewhat and drying out. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Fjord temperament, breeding, and evaluations
This message is from: Robin Churchill Similarly most of the warmblood registries require that the stallions go through a 100 day stallion performance test which is similar to what Lori described but more in-depth. In that testing temperament and rideability accounts for 45% of the stallion's score. Here is a link with a description of what the testing consists of if anyone is interested. http://www.equisearch.com/horses_care/health/breeding/test41203/ When my friends got their Dutch Warmblood stallion approved, the cost of sending him for the testing was about $10,000 and I think that was about 10 years ago, so a significant investment. Robin in SW Florida where the weather is getting a bit better but still hot Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Winter Blankets for Fjords
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have used Hugs, Weatherbeeta, Rambo, Shires and Dover's Rider's International brand. I think that choosing one with a gusseted shoulder can be helpful. Some sheets/blankets seem to be cut too big or too low so they want to creep down on the shoulders, some are too small in the shoulders and some are too long or short. There are brands that have ones made for bigger bodied horses. If you are going to be using them a lot then the ones you adjust and then clip rather than buckle make things easier. Robin in SW Florida now officially known as "The Big Swamp" > Anyone have any winter blanket brands that work for your fjords? Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Trip across country
This message is from: Robin Churchill I never would have thought of that. great idea. Robin Sent from my iPhone > > we contacted the fair and rodeo grounds for the area we wanted to stay in, > and got permission to camp on the grounds, thus being able to use the arena > to turn the horses loose in. There are some real nice facilities out there. > As a thank you we then sent a small donation to the fair or rodeo board. > > Janet > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Hoof Soaking
This message is from: Robin Churchill That works but you usually have to have the big vet bags not the ones for people unless you know someone on dialysis. Robin I saw an idea for using an empty IV fluid bag to soak a hoof. http://www.pangaeaequestrian.com/1/post/2012/11/tip-use-an-empty-iv-fluid-bag -to-soak-your-horses-hoof.html Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Correct frame vs. pulling in
This message is from: Robin Churchill I was thinking about this topic this morning as I worked my two fjord geldings. In my opinion or experience, sometimes this is easier said than done. What we all want is for the horse to carry themselves and do the work instead of us doing the work for them. How quickly or if they ever do this ability depends on the horse's conformation and temperament as well as the skill and temperament of the rider. It took me years to ride well enough and have enough skill to get my warmblood to carry himself. It was the reason I got into fjords as a matter of fact, but what I didn't realize at the time was that it was my lack of skill and timidness that was making the horse miserable to ride. However, the techniques I used to make that horse carry himself have not worked on one of the fjords I am riding now. The warmblood was very big and long-necked, a little too straight in the hock and stifle and somewhat lazy. He liked to carry his poll low and go behind the vertical and refused to take the connection making it impossible to half-halt. Part of the issue with him was that in my inexperience and timidness, I did not let him or make him go consistantly forward and would let him stop if something felt bad. What happened was that I trained him that he didn't have to carry himself especially in the canter and that he could lean on me and pull me around in the trot when he wanted to. This horse also had a lot of health issues and had periodic breaks from work so he had to kind of be "restarted" every so often. Eventually long after I had my first couple fjords and developed more skill and confidence, I was able to retrain this horse and he became really fun to ride. Unfortunately now his health problems have caused him to be a pasture ornament but we had about 2 years that he was really a joy to ride. What worked with him was to not care what he did with his head except not to let him go behind the vertical and get him very forward then gradually as he gained strength take the connection and eventually he would connect in the bridle. Also I had someone help me ride him in the canter because his favorite trick was to just wear you out in the canter so you would just get tired and frustrated and give up. We would tag team him so pretty soon he was cantering twice as long and eventually he gained the strength to carry himself in the canter and the canter became easy to ride. This was after years of literally having him drag me around and work me to death and drop out of the canter when he wanted to. I tried this technique with one of my fjords who is difficult to put in the correct frame and it didn't work at all. This horse is the opposite of that horse in that he being a fjord has a shorter neck and shorter back. Of the two fjords I have, he is the draftier. He likes to stick his head out and go around strung out and letting him go forward in a strung out frame and trying to gradually bring him in doesn't work at all. I am still struggling with him especially in the hot weather which he hates and realize now the mistakes I made with him earlier --one being that because I don't like the feeling when the horse pulls or gets heavy, I would give. What that teaches the horse is that if he pulls or gets heavy, the reins get longer and he doesn't have to stay in that pesky frame and work from behind. I think with this horse if I had taught him in the beginning that if he pulled or got heavy that he was going to get tapped from behind and that there would be no give until he gave that I wouldn't be struggling as much with him now. I mistakenly thought at the beginning that if he was forward he would naturally go into the correct frame which just isn't true for this horse. Putting him in shoulder-fore helps because it makes him step over with his inside leg and carry more behind but I still find him to be a challenge. One thing that also made it more difficult was that for whatever reason, this horse was scared to death of the whip when I got him. I have taught him not to be afraid of the whip, but it took a year or more for him to accept the whip without freaking out a little. I feel like you need to be able to tap them when they need it otherwise if they are a little lazy, you end up just using more and more leg until they are completely unresponsive to it. BTW there is a good article in I think the July Dressage Today by Jane Savoie about getting your horse to go forward on his own accord. On the other hand the other fjord gelding that I have now is the same age and same height as the one above but different conformationally and is no problem to put on the bit. Both of these horses had training from a competent dressage trainer in the beginning so that isn't the difference in them. It is just easier for the second guy. His neck is longer, his back is longer and he is built lighter and tolerates the heat better.
Thanks regarding trucks and review of cool medics saddle pad
This message is from: Robin Churchill Thanks to all for your truck opinions. We are going back to the Ford dealer tomorrow so maybe we will make a deal. I don't know if anyone has used any of the Cool Medics products. I know people who have used the vests and the reviews online are good. I decided to try one of the saddle pads because it is so hot here. My advice is don't bother. I didn't think it felt cool hardly at all. It is just like putting a wet saddle pad on your horse. I sent a complaint e-mail to the company but I kind of doubt that they will do anything but thought I would save someone else some money if anyone was thinking about one. Robin in Florida where it is wet, wet, wet Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Fw: Truck Info--regarding hauling a gooseneck with a short bed
This message is from: Robin Churchill - Forwarded Message - From: Robin Churchill To: EmailUser bolinsj Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 7:46 AM Subject: Re: Truck Info I have the short bed now and I have one of those hitch extender balls which has made it a little easier although I hauled it for a long time without with no problem but I am aware of the potential and was just careful. I don't know the difference but the guy that delivered our trailer because they didn't have it right when we went to pick it up was an experienced trailer hauler and he put it through the back window of his boss' short bed pickup--don't remember what brand that was.. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Trucks
This message is from: Robin Churchill My understanding is that the last year they made the 7.3 L engine was 2003 then they went to the 6.0 then a 6.4 and now they are back up to a 6.7 L diesel. Like you I like the taller truck and want the power of the diesel. I absolutely feel I need 4WD because I live on an island and the property has been filled and it is sandy so if it is real dry you can get stuck in sand or if it is wet you also can lose traction. I also don't need it often but do use it. I also would like one of those tailgate steps (although I haven't seen them much) because I frequently have to climb into the bed of the truck to unload stuff and I am short. I can hoist myself up now but I'm not getting any younger last time I checked. Since I have been looking I have learned a lot more about trucks like the significance of the axle ratio, etc. I find the Dodges and Chevys more difficult to understand, I guess because I am just unfamiliar with them. Robin From: Gail Russell To: "fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com" Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 4:44 PM Subject: RE: Trucks This message is from: Gail Russell Here is what I sent Robin. I might be able to find my specifications list if anyone is really interested. A friend who hauls horses a lot specified it for me. We took almost every option. There are probably used versions of this truck out there, but you would have to make certain it had all the heavy duty hauling options. We LOVE this truck. It has revolutionized our hauling lives. We currently haul at least 3200 miles every year taking our horses to Cedarville. We have a 2007 F350 Crew Cab Long Box Dually with a big engine. Diesel. . Had running boards put on it, which we believe were essential. They go all the way back next to the bed so you can get into the bed to hitch up a gooseneck. It has running lights on the cab and doors, which make it look good, and probably make it more visible. It is four wheel drive, which makes it heavier and makes the box higher, which has implications if you have a gooseneck trailer. It has an engine braking system that is an absolute Godsend. We travel steep mountain roads hauling three horses at a time, and you tap the brake once or twice, and then the engine holds that speed. It feels much, much safer than driving our old 1993 F250. This truck has a much shorter turning radius for its size than our 1993 F250. Ford changed the frames so that this truck almost feels like driving a car. That said, one is hard pressed to drive this truck to a grocery store. I would never again buy a truck that did not have at least some kind of space behind the driver's seat, and we have used the extra seating quite a bit. There is nothing we do not like about this truck thus far. I would not get the gas version as the diesel is much better at hauling. The 4 wheel drive is expensive. It does help the truck hold its value, but I suspect one is still out some money. Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
RE: Trucks
This message is from: Robin Churchill I pull a 4-star 3 horse gooseneck trailer and fairly frequently I have 3 horses in it, one of which is a 1500 pound warmblood. I have to trailer to the farrier once a month plus any other clinics, etc I do. The trailer weighs I think about 4500# empty and I put 3500# of horse in it plus whatever else is in there. I imagine it usually weighs about 1#. Right now I have a Ford F350 diesel that we bought new. It is a 2005 and besides seeming to go through a lot of batteries, I never had any problems with it until the last 6-8 months and it seems like it has been one thing after another. People say this year was one of the worst for Ford engines and that the new 6.7 liter diesel is a lot better. I think I want to stick with a diesel because I don't want to be close to the towing limit, although my husband thinks diesels now are more trouble because of all the emissions control equipment they have. On this truck, I have had problems with the brake calipers on the front wheels (got stuck 2 different instances when I was pulling the trailer--now both replaced), oil cooler, turbo, transmission fluid sensor. All the stuff got fixed but it was a hassle and now I don't trust the thing. I test drove a new one the other day and it obviously is a lot nicer but it had a long bed and I have a very difficult driveway to get out of (thanks to hubby's landscaping--sometimes I just get mad and run over it) and the long bed would probably make it near impossible so I think I want to stick with the short bed. The truck I have now is a crew cab but I was thinking of just going to an extended cab because I rarely have anyone travel with me but there are not as many of those available it seems. Also trying to decide whether to try to get a good deal on a 2013 or wait until 2014 and have a newer model but that kind of goes against my nature because I like to get a good deal and I think that seems unlikely if I get one just as they come out new. Some people swear by Dodge others hate them. Ditto for Chevy. No one has recommended a GMC. My advice to anyone who is looking at a used Ford with a 6.0L diesel is to pass based on my experience. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Trucks
This message is from: Robin Churchill If anyone on the list has a heavy truck (i.e. F250/350, Ram 2500/3500, etc) that they bought in the past few years, please e-mail me privately and tell what you like and don't like about your truck and what made you decide to purchase the particular brand and features. I need a new truck and I am having a terrible time deciding exactly what I want and which brand and features are worth the money also the reliability factor. Thanks, Robin in Florida Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Fwd: Re: Disposition/intelligence
This message is from: Robin Churchill I know some may disagree but I would not be interested in using a trainer who smacked the side of my horse's head crisply unless there was a really good reason. There are probably lots of differences between us mere mortals and those who train horses professionally for a living but it doesn't mean that we can't get the horse to do the same stuff for us. It may take longer to train it or someone may prefer not to spend the time or is a novice and really needs the help of a trainer but once the horse is trained and we are trained, the horse should be able to do most of the basic stuff for the owner/handler. I understand that they are not likely to take the horse to the Olympics or something but that's not what I mean. This may be true in some situations, but in general most horses are smarter than my husband's former orthopedic residency collegue for whom every operation was totally new. For some reason, the guy was unable to generalize things from one context to the next, however, most of us can and horses can too. If specific context were really that important then you could never take a horse to a show or clinic or have someone else ride or work with it, and all these trainers are wasting our money because what you are saying is that if the context of the learned behavior is not exactly the same, the horse doesn't understand what it is being asked and that is just not true. I am not saying that a horse or other animal is never confused when you change something, but in general, I think they catch on to most stuff, even if it is not asked exactly the same way and in the same location with the same clothes on or whatever. The main reason horses do what we want is that they are generally submissive and that they are astute observers of the behavior of people and other animals. They read our demeanor, behavior and level of confidence. We are training them all the time whether we know it or not, sometimes to do things we don't want. Robin in SW Florida Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Fwd: Re: Disposition/intelligence
This message is from: Robin Churchill It is not a training issue. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Fwd: Re: Disposition/intelligence
This message is from: Robin Churchill <"Respect" is another word that has no meaning when applied to animals. The behavior is either trained, or it isn't. > If that is the case, how do you explain the situation when a horse is trained to do something and another handler asks the horse to do whatever the trained behavior is in exactly the way it was trained and the horse says "no". This happens all the time and we've all seen and experienced it. A horse we've trained won't perform said task for someone else or we send a horse to be trained and we can't get the horse to do what the trainer can. Why does that happen? It's not because the horse is confused. It's because the horse either does not respect (or whatever you want to call it ) the person enough to cooperate and says "no" or sometimes senses a lack of confidence or conviction in the person and therefore won't cooperate. Sometimes if you try to do something with a horse and the trainer is there the horse does it and then when that person is not there, it won't do whatever you asked. That is because before it was doing it for the trainer not you. If you think a horse doesn't assess your level of confidence with every interaction then you are mistaken. My friend who trained horses for 40 years always says they know your level of confidence as soon as your foot goes in the stirrup (and I would argue even before that). My big warmblood is extremely safe and well-trained so much so that you can completely steer him just with light pressure of your legs at the walk (and probably other gaits as well when he's being cooperative). Put a novice on him and he acts like he has no idea what they want him to do. Granted, they may not have much finesse in their aids but trust me, he knows what they want, he just doesn't think he has to do it. So training is not the only thing that goes into getting horses to do or not do what you want, there are other factors involved. IMO, that is. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
CT/Training
This message is from: Robin Churchill I understand that you are not supposed to treat if the horse mugs you or demands a treat. I think if you like CT that's great but I think it takes considerable skill to get the timing of it and I guess after the first couple minutes when it's really cool, I find it time-consuming and boring. I'm sure it has a place in the training spectrum but it seems to me that I can train my horses to do the same things with much less effort and faster with whatever it is that I do. I'm sure there are people on the list and elsewhere that are more skilled at horse training particularly under saddle training but I tend to be pretty good with all the ground handling things and my under saddle training skills are improving particularly now that I have 2 horses that are well-suited to my temperament. For example, I can consistently load my 3 on the trailer in probably 6 minutes--the time it takes to walk them to the trailer from the barn. I don't know how I trained them to do it, partially by practicing when we are not under pressure and by putting treats and hay in the trailer but mostly because they "respect" me and when I tell them to get on the trailer, they get on, even if they are not thrilled about it. Similarly, I didn't teach Magnus to self-load, I walked him on the trailer the first few times and he went because I said so, then one day, I just threw the rope over his neck and he walked on and has ever since. Now Levi, that's another story but I think it is harder to get them to self-load in a box stall which is where he goes when I haul 3 horses which is at least once a month. Maybe I just have easy to handle horses, but as far as trailering goes, I don't think the way you get a horse on a trailer is not for him to know he's going on, it's because you know he's going on. I personally think most of this stuff is in the trainer's head and it's their "aura" and confidence that get the horse to do what they want. And the NH stuff gives people a method and confidence and that's what makes it work. I also think there is something to the idea that whoever moves the horse is the boss. I have seen horses that are boss move other horses and personally experienced how much more respectful and submissive the horse is when the trainer moves him/her. Once I was lunging a horse that kept falling in and didn't really respect pointing the whip at the shoulder. When he would fall in, I would back up then I thought "wait a minute--this horse is moving me" Next thing I did was step forward boldly when he tried to fall in. Guess what, he went out on the circle and stayed there. From then on, I paid attention and didn't let a horse back me up when lunging again. Sometimes you just have to be smarter than the horse :) Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Disposition/intelligence
This message is from: Robin Churchill > All that stuff about being "herd leader" is mythology< To that end there is an article in July Equus by Jennifer Williams PhD who I think is an equine behaviorist about the importance of the horse's place in the herd hierarchy as it affects trainability and what type of handler would be most suitable. RBC Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: NH and CT?? Mouthy?
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have the same problem. I cannot feed any of my horses by hand if I don' t want them to start mouthing everything and eventually nipping. This includes the warmblood. All their treats go in their feed buckets or outside feed pans. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
NH and CT
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have done a little NH and by no means am I any expert but I thought that it was helpful in gaining the respect of the horse. I also have played around with clicker training both with horses and dogs. Magnus caught onto it in about 15 sec, Levi not so much. I think it takes a lot of patience and it is difficult to get the timing right. I think it is much easier with dogs but am no expert at that either. I just find that I don't really need it because I have taught mine pretty much anything I wanted them to know so far by just talking to them, rewarding them when appropriate, etc. The stuff I see people teaching with CT my horses already know. That is not to say that if I wanted them to do something that they didn't seem to be catching onto that I wouldn't be willing to try it again but I just find it difficult and time-consuming. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Belligerent rider
This message is from: Robin Churchill I respectfully disagree. I think they are a lot smarter than we give them credit for and at times animals certainly know when they have done something they are not supposed to and it is not just by training or instinct. People think they are not smart because they don't speak our language. The real problem is that we don't always understand theirs. We really have no idea what they do or don't think or feel. My husband who is a big, tough analytical, unemotional surgeon always says it is people who are the morons who think animals are not intelligent, don't have emotions, etc. I think it is clear that they love certain people or their animal friends, they grieve over losses, they sometimes do things just for the fun of it. They remember people, places and other animals years later. One evening, I had put out hay for the two fjords I had at the time, and went to open the gate to let them in. The mare sprinted forward in true fjord fashion hurrying to get to the hay. The gelding just stopped while I was closing the gate and I thought to myself "what is he doing, she is going to eat all the hay" When I walked up beside him, he fell in step with me and then I knew that what he was doing was waiting for me. I have a gelding now that is the smartest horse I've ever met because I think he understands what you say to him in a more complex way than just one word commands or praise. One evening I was in the feed barn behind the main barn getting the food buckets. Most horses I know are going to follow whoever has the food, not turn and go in the opposite direction if they are told to. I said to this horse with the buckets in my hand, "go to your stall and I'll bring your food". He turned immediately away from the direction I was going with the food and went to his stall and waited for me to come around the other way and dump his food. Now he's conditioned to do it when I tell him, but the first time I told him, I think he understood what I said. My other fjord is not smart in that way. You can dump his food in the bucket and he'll come in the stall, not look in his bucket and come to the stall door and look at me and I have to go over and show him his food is in the bucket. On the other hand, he is smart enough to know to stay in the shade when it's hot, something the other two horses often fail to do. I think as humans we frequently underestimate an animal's intelligence and ignore the fact that they have emotional lives. I think particularly horses can be really traumatized when they are sold and sent to a different place. We expect them to be carted away and then get to some strange place where they know nobody and immediately settle in and do what they are supposed to and what they have been trained to do. We don't acknowledge or realize that they may be grieving for the loss of their owner/handler and their horse friends. There was an article in the past year in the USDF connection (Dec 2012/Jan 2013) about this that is well worth reading because I think it can give some insight into how long it can take for a horse to settle in and bond to a new owner. That article really hit home with me because I had a similar experience when I got my latest fjord. He seemed nothing like the horse I went to look at, so much so that I actually wanted to send him back. I have now said at least a hundred times that I am so glad I didn't because he has turned out to be super. He is friendly, engaging and very steady and also the under saddle work is relatively easy for him. I think he was very bonded to the person who sold him to me and he was completely upset and overwhelmed when he got here because it was totally different. It took about 3 or 4 weeks for him to start to bond to me and actually quite a bit longer than that before he would actually work willingly for me. But, once he decided that I was ok, he really demonstrated a better work ethic than my other fjord. Horses also know the difference between when they are sent to a new owner and when they are just moved someplace else. Levi who had kind of flipped out when he got here, didn't blink an eye when I moved him and the other horses out for a possible hurricane about a month or so later. He seemed to understand that he wasn't being abandoned, his new friends were with him and he didn't give me or anyone else any trouble at all--how did he know that? Part of it was the other horses were with him but they weren't stalled where he could see them. Also I went to see them every day they were gone but one, but I am convinced that he knew that I would be back for him even though he had only known me for 4-6 weeks at the time. Sorry to be so long-winded but I guess you can stop reading anytime you choose. Robin in Fl where it was less humid and a little breezy today for a change. __
Re: Runaway Fjords
This message is from: Robin Churchill I totally agree with your comments. I think some horses and handlers/riders just find the right connection and others don't. It doesn't mean the horse or the person is bad necessarily, they just didn't work out. The fjord that would take off with me was not a bad horse and it wasn't that he didn't like me and I certainly adored him. I think I was too inexperienced and not confident enough for a horse of his age and temperament at the time. I sold him to someone who to be honest, is a more skilled and confident rider and I think he has worked out fine for her. I have a horse now that didn't work out for someone else but after a little bit of adjustment here is working out great for me. I couldn't be more thrilled with the two geldings I have now. They are both different in a lot of ways but they both suit me. I am totally comfortable working with them and riding them which is actually something I was not sure I would ever achieve since I learned to ride as an adult and therefore was fairly timid for a number of years. Especially Magnus really restored my confidence because he is just so brave and steady but after he settled in here, Levi became very steady as well. I have learned a tremendous amount from working with the fjords and I think it has made me a much better horseperson. Two things I have taken away from the experience is that not every horse is going to work for every person and it doesn't mean it is a bad horse or you are a failure if it doesn't and the old saying that "this too shall pass". In other words, most likely if the horse is not doing what you want in some way, if you are just patient and don't get too worried or upset, eventually you will work through it and the horse will either stop doing the thing you don't want or start doing the thing you do want. And then some other thing will crop up that you will work through. It just seems to be the nature of working with horses. Of course, there are some people that seem to have the magic touch and every horse instantly loves them and is totally obedient but I think that is not the case for most of us. Robin Some of them I get along famously with, and there are others that I/we can't get a connection no matter what I do. And I'm sure we've all heard about someone selling an animal they didn't click with, only to have the next owner find the horse of a lifetime. It's happened to me. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: mules & more............
This message is from: Robin Churchill Mary, I guess you have been lucky. It is true that some of these things may be caused by poor handling or training or perhaps just the interaction between certain people and certain horses, but I've had horses for 20 years and fjords for 10 and have owned 8 horses, 5 of them fjords. Only one of those horses ever bolted and it was a fjord and he did it several times with me and also with one of my friends. Other than that you couldn't have asked for a nicer, better, friendlier, more talented horse so it wasn't that he was just a bad, crazy horse. He had a lot of training and none of it was rough or abusive. He was trailered extensively to clinics and successfully shown locally and regionally. It is likely he required a more confident leader than I was, but he was a fjord and he would bolt, not often but on occasion. And when he would do it, he never got to quit work or got me off, so he was not rewarded for it. I personally believe any horse will bolt given the right set of circumstances, but some are more likely to do it than others and fjords are not exempt from it. I think it is discouraging, particularly to people who are new to fjords to be told everything the horse does is their fault. It is probably true that the majority of the time it is the trainer/handler and not the horse that causes problems either through inexperience or lack of skill and I have been there many times, but fjords are horses and they do all the same things other horses do and require the same if not more effort, and skill to train. People tend to think they are easier and maybe some of them are, but I think sometimes they require more finesse to train than other breeds because in my opinion, they tend to be pretty smart and more invested in their relationship with the handler. Robin in Florida I have never seen any of these qualities in any of the Fjords I have been around. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: bridles
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have always been able to use a horse size bridle but needed an oversize browband for my fjord geldings and even then they sometimes barely fit. On the mare I had, I used a horse browband/bridle but cob cheekpieces. I think it is nice if you have easy access to someone who can custom make the bridles for a reasonable price but if not, you can improvise by putting together parts from different size bridles. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Mules & Fjords
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have owned 5 different fjords and they were all different. In general, I find them to be more stoic than other horses, and I think developing a trusting relationship with the handler is more important with them. They will do a lot more for you if you are "their person" and they respect you. The ones I have had would not have done well with rough handling. Calm, consistent handling with positive reinforcement but with very definite expectations is what works best with them. In this way they remind me of my chows. Chows don't respond to rough handling but they must have discipline or they will walk all over you. I agree with Mary that the best way to correct them is through work, if they are naughty they get to work harder not in an angry way, just in a matter of fact way and if they are good they may get to quit early. The other important thing is if you need to take it slow in training them, do so but always set things up for a positive result and so that you win (in other words, get the outcome you were looking for) Some people among us are more skilled with horses than others but that doesn't mean that someone who is inexperienced or not as brave cannot be successful, it just may take longer. Robin in SW Florida where it is really hot and miserable and Magnus and Levi are planning on calling the SPCA if I don't let them on vacation until at least October Some of us run at a higher speed than others - mentally and physically. Our critters can do the same - each is a little different, still those stereotypes persist for Fjords and mules. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Items for sale
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have the following items for sale: Used Barnsby Bonfire Dressage saddle. 17.5 inch seat, XW tree. Has some fading of the leather on the seat but is otherwise in very good condition. I like this saddle but don't have anyone who it fits. Small knee rolls and gusseted panel. $500. Used Hennig Dressage saddle. Seat measures 17. This is a very deep saddle that makes the rider very secure. Also has a gusseted panel. Will not fit a very flat backed horse. I love this saddle but have come to the conclusion that my warmblood's riding days are over. This tree can be changed by a saddle fitter with the correct press. This does not have one of the titanium trees that some Hennigs were made with which are prone to breakage. Hennigs are very high-end usually retailing for over $5000. This saddle in very good condition and priced at $2000. Nearly new M. Toulouse Larissa with Genesis Tree. 17 inch seat. Adjustable tree that is very easy to adjust. This saddle is a monoflap design also has a gusseted panel and will fit a broad or flat-backed horse and would have fit either of my fjords but was not a comfortable saddle for me mainly due to the medium twist. I should have seriously ridden in it before it was too late to return but did not. This saddle has literally only been ridden in for probably a total of 4 times for 90 minutes or so. These retail for ~1900 and I will take $1200. All of these saddles have been kept in air conditioning and cleaned after every ride and conditioned on a regular basis. I also have a brand new set of cob sized Dover Pro Shipping Boots that have never been worn for $45 and several pairs of new or slightly used black web dressage reins. If anyone is interested in any of these items, email me privately for more info or pics. Robin in SW Florida where it is hot and miserable and will be until October. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: fjordhorse-digest V2013 #102
This message is from: Robin Churchill What type or brand of saddle would be best for your fjord is going to depend on many factors. First off, what type of riding do you want to be able to do in the saddle? You may choose a different brand depending on the discipline. You want to find a saddle that not only fits your horse but also fits you. You should give some consideration to what your access is to a decent saddle fitter which in my experience are few and far between. If you have no access to a saddle fitter you may want to consider a saddle with a changeable gullet or adjustable tree. Your budget is also going to affect which saddle you will choose. I only ride dressage or hack, but I have had a bunch of different dressage saddles for my fjords some which fit them and didn't fit me and vice-versa. In fact, I just have gotten a new saddle last week after having a terrible time fitting the fjord that I bought last July because all fjords are not the same. I have had fjords since 2004 so you would think I would have had a saddle to fit another fjord but I tried 7 different saddle brands and 8 saddles before getting one to fit him and also fit me. Wintec, Bates and I think Thorowgood saddles can work well for fjords because they make models which are for wider horses and have changeable gullets. Most of them also seem to have a gusseted panel which tends to do well on fjords, which seem to have broader and flatter backs. These saddles are also relatively inexpensive compared to some of the more high-end brands as well. Some people also recommend Barnsby or Black Country saddles for horses that are built more substantially. Be aware that some saddles have trees that can be adjusted by a saddle fitter but don't believe that it means the tree will fit any horse. A saddle fitter can adjust the fit with flocking or by changing the tree if the saddle allows it and they have the proper type of saddle press but you have to have a good fitter to tell exactly what needs to be done to make it fit and some saddles just won't fit certain types of horses. Some people also like the Duett saddles for fjords and I think they are helpful but I don't think the trees on those can be changed. They can tell you how to do a wither tracing to help you find the right size though. I just bought a saddle for Levi from a company called Equine Inspired. The fitter is a guy named George Guillikson and he has some unconventional ideas but is extremely knowlegable and I have never had anyone spend the time and effort that he has spent trying to get us into the correct saddle. He will work on any brand of saddle and he does have the correct saddle press to change the saddle tree and knows which trees can be changed. He also adjusted my Hennig saddle for the other fjord and I have had 2 other fitters adjusted it in the past and neither of them made it fit nearly as well as he did. He is very fair in his pricing for fitting, but to have them make a new saddle for you is in the $4000 range. That being said, the first time he was here, he spent over 5 hours and adjusted 3 saddles and didn't charge me anything because I ended up making a deposit on a new saddle. Fitters usually charge a consultation and fitting fee depending on what they have to do. Most, I think will waive the consultation and fitting fee on a horse that you buy a new saddle for, but I have certainly never had one fit other horses for free before this guy. In fact, some fitters will still charge you a consultation fee even if you buy a saddle. If possible, see if anyone you know has saddles you can borrow and try before actually buying one. I would advise against buying a saddle that you can't really ride in several times prior to purchase. If you are interested in a dressage saddle, I have 3 for sale that have fit fjords in the past. Email me privately and I will tell you about them. One is nearly new and has an adjustable tree. It fit both my fjords but not me and I ended up with it because I didn't really ride in it before I bought it, thinking that I could get used to it. Don't make the same mistake. Hope that helps, Robin in very hot humid SW Florida--Magnus and Levi want the summer off :) Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: horses on pasture
This message is from: Robin Churchill Whether or not you can leave horses out on grass or in the weather probably depends to a great extent on what type of grass you have and what type of weather, specifically if your hot weather is accompanied by excessive levels of humidity. Here in Florida in the winter, my horses stay out from about 6 am to 10 pm. I put them in at night because of the set-up of my property and in the summer because of the bugs. They get excessive mosquito bites on their heads and necks if you leave them out at night because they go back by more swampy areas of the property. A couple episodes of anhidrosis, once for about 2 weeks in my Hanovarian who has always lived in a hot climate and never had a problem before and for a few days in one of the fjords, cured me of leaving them out in the afternoon in the summer. I have shade but they won't use it, so I find I have to lock them up with a fan and a sun shade on their paddocks from about 11 or 12 to 4 or 5 in the summer. Right now I live in SW Fl but at some point we plan to relocate to property we have in Ocala. There I expect to have to make a dry lot on some part of the property for the fjords to spend part of the day because the grass there tends to be richer than what there is here but probably still not as rich as places where northern grass types grow. Generally here we grow some type of Bermuda or Bahia. On my present property, I have common Bermuda and nothing else will grow here. Fortunately the fjords seem to do well on this because it seems to be relatively low calorie/low sugar. I would like to leave my horses out 24/7 but unfortunately I don't think our conditions here permit it. Robin in Sw Fl where it is getting hot and humid This message is from: Eric Kozowski They are out 24x7x365 in weather from 100+ to -20. -- " Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Another fjord story
This message is from: Robin Churchill Yesterday I was trailering my 2 fjord geldings home from spending the night at a friend's farm for a dressage clinic. First we were delayed on the interstate because of an accident and then when we were a few miles from home one of the brake calipers on my truck got stuck and the driver's side brake got hot and I had to pull over and stop. I checked the horses and they were kind of looking around like "what's the hold-up?" but stood quietly until we got going again. We got the brake cooled down with some water and were able to make it the rest of the way home without incident. It was pretty hot outside, although my trailer has a lot of drop windows and is insulated and stays fairly cool most of the time. Nevertheless, I figured since we had had two delays, the horses would be anxious to get off and went to try to unload them right away after we arrived. Lo and behold, they didn't want to get off the trailer! The only time they get to eat as much hay as they want, as fast as they want, is when they are on the trailer and they still had hay left and they intended to eat it. So I let them stay on the trailer and eat their hay while we unloaded everything. The other funny thing that happened while we were away was that my friend turned Magnus out in a little paddock out in front of her barn and she noticed him walking slowly around with his nose to the ground and thought "what is that horse doing?" Turns out he was hoovering up every little piece of leftover hay that her horses had rejected. I told her--"that's a fjord for you." Robin in SW Florida where I think summer has arrived--hot and humid already Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: quiet on the list
This message is from: Robin Churchill We have had a decent winter in Florida although it has been unseasonably cold this week--down in the 40s at night here and 30s on the mainland. I had to pull out the blanket liners that were already in the attic. I retired my 18 year old warmblood due to foot issues and he is walking around as a now barefoot pasture ornament. I feel I have made some good progress with both fjords, not as fast as I would like, but learning to be satisfied with the pace of my progress rather than being unhappy that it is not as good as someone else might make. I have 2 same-sized, same age fjord geldings who nonetheless are very different and it is fun to interact with them and try to figure out what approach suits them each the best. I finally have Magnus (who I call the wonder horse because of his intelligence but utterly bombproofness--is that a word?), who I have had about 2 years going reliably on the bit and improving in his lateral work and in my ability to sit his trot. Like Bonnie, who wrote in a couple weeks ago about her new horse, the newer gelding Levi and I got off to a little bit rocky start, but with patience (not my strongest suit) and persistance, things eventually smoothed out . I find him a bit quirky, but he has become quite affectionate and more and more obedient and steady as time has gone on. When I take him somewhere, he is a "chick magnet" regaling friends and acquaintances with his cuteness and engaging personality. So all in all, a good winter season for us, with participation in some clinics, lots of trailering to the farrier and other places but not much showing. Dreading the hot, humid weather and hurricanes that are likely not far off for our part of the country. Robin in SW Florida Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Feeding the chubbies
This message is from: Robin Churchill Technically, horses are supposed to get 1-2% of their weight in good quality, however what their real needs are varies with breed, age, activity level and the individual horse's metabolism. I have 2 fjord gelding that are both 6 years old, 14.2 hands and essentially on the same work schedule of light to moderate riding 4-5 days a week. If I feed them the same, one gains weight and the other doesn't. I am restricted here in Florida by the hay that is available as well since most of it is imported. I usually feed 10-15 pounds of mature Timothy or something they sell as Timothy but I would call some kind of nondescript grass hay plus some local hay either some type of bermuda or pangola. The local hay is generally not as nice and not as palatable and you have to be careful with the bermudas which usually tend to be finer and have an increased colic risk. I only use them because they are lower in calories and sugar and as your horse, my horses seem to always be starving. My pasture is common bermuda because the more nutritious grasses such as bahia won't grow here. The common bermuda is good for the fjords because again it is lower in calories and sugar but it becomes very sparse and dry because of the lack of rainfall in the winter so they usually kind of turn up their noses or worse, dig it up by the roots to get the more tender roots. In the summer when the grass is good, I cut their hay significantly. I try to put the weight tape on them every 2 weeks which generally underestimates the weight by 10-20% depending on the horse and the tape but it gives a trend. I was remiss in doing this recently and waited about 6 weeks and low and behold, my little air fern fjord had gained some weight whereas they other one was exactly the same. My horses get only a handful of low starch feed along with some forage feed called Equisafe plus their supplements. I don't know anything about the type of hay you use but I would think that 20 pounds of hay a day is quite a bit for a fjord and should be plenty for him unless he is in regular hard work. My 17 hand 1470 lb warmblood gets about 25 lbs of hay a day but it is more of a premium timothy and some alfalfa plus some of the lower quality timothy and local hay. He can't maintain his weight without the better hay even if I liberalize his food but I have to be careful because he has EPSM and has had laminitis in the past. I would figure out what you think your horse should weigh and weight tape him regularly and if he is maintaining his weight then he's getting enough. He will likely say he is hungry no matter what he is a fjord. That is what mine do, especially the one who tends toward getting chubby. Every day he complains bitterly for me to hurry with his food at every op[portunity because he is obviously almost ready to faint from weakness. Hope that helps. Cheers, Robin in SW Florida where the good weather is almost over. From: Cindy B Giovanetti To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 3:51 PM Subject: Feeding the chubbies This message is from: Cindy B Giovanetti What are you doing? Cindy Lots of pictures of his fine self here: https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Loose stools
This message is from: Robin Churchill I wish it were that simple. I have used probiotics many times on horses with loose stools that do not have parasites and usually have found it to have little effect. I have a big warmblood gelding who has had a lot of problems with off and on loose stools over the past year which seem to be related to stress vs. hay changes vs. medications vs. I don't know what and although I have given him probiotics on a regular basis to try and help, it really hasn't seemed to do much. I don't think it hurts to try it because in some instances it is probably beneficial but there are a lot more causes of diarrhea in horses (and in humans) than parasites or derangement of the gut flora. Robin in Florida According to my trainer, loose stools, unless they are from worms, are almost always a sign of insufficient digestive microbes in the gut. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Hoof Boots
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have looked at the Soft Touch Grinder and I have been starting to rasp some myself. I now have a farrier that I am taking the one fjord to who while he is not a "barefoot trimmer" does mostly barefoot horses and gets the toe shorter and that has helped with the cracks and the horse's tripping. I am planning on switching all the horses to him since he is more accomodating of what they need but I still will have to take them to him. I will look at the heels on the horse that gets cracks, but that horse's hooves are not upright--they more want to spread out. The other fjord actually has a more upright hoof and his are perfect and never a problem except that he had thrush when I got him and his frogs are still growing out from that. The big horse actually has a mild club foot on the right, but in general has the hooves that want to spread instead of growing down. It seems to me that those type of hooves need frequent reshaping to keep the toe from getting too long without taking off too much and making the horse sore. I tried to find a real barefoot trimmer in our area with no luck. There are some in Ocala and I think Wellington but they are both hours from me. I will check out the yahoo abrasive trimming list. Thanks for all the advice. Some days these hoof/foot issues just make me want to beat my head against a tree. Robin From: Gail Russell To: "fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com" Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 3:43 PM Subject: RE: Hoof Boots This message is from: Gail Russell Have you considered trimming yourself? Have you seen the Soft Touch Grinder? Subscribed to the yahoo abrasivetrimming list? Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Hoof Boots
This message is from: Robin Churchill This horse has a foot that is longer than it is wide partially naturally and partially the way he was currently trimmed. My thought about this whole thing is that I want to get these horses on the same farrier schedule because trailering out on different schedules is killing me and I am just fed up with the shoes on this horse. He lost the right front shoe two weeks before he was last shod and then again 2 days after he was shod. Also I feel like (and I could be wrong) that despite his problems, if I could get the hoof in a more natural shape and get rid of the nail holes perhaps he would do better. My objective is to have him walk around comfortably and if he can be ridden that would be a plus. My main riding horses are now the 2 fjords and one of them needs to be on a 4 week schedule to keep the flare out of his hoof and keep it from cracking at the toe. I've mentioned before that the farrier that does the big horse only does a 6 week schedule because he has so many clients and for his personal life. Unfortunately the west coast of Florida is not like the east coast or Ocala area where good farriers and horse vets are a dime a dozen and if you don't like one you can easily get another. Right now I am putting a Boa boot on the unshod hoof when he is turned out and a softride boot in the stall but my objective would be for him to be barefoot most of the time unless he is being ridden once his feet get used to being without shoes and are gradually brought into a more natural shape. I also saw a product called sole guard that I thought might be appropriate when he first has the shoes pulled but I don't know anyone who has used it. I am going to take a look at the Renegade and Cavallo boots but I also was looking at the Easy Boot Trail which are supposedly easy to put on and off, more appropriate for an oval foot and ok to turn out in. I guess they are pretty new but the reviews of them on-line seem positive. Thanks to everyone who wrote with advice and if anyone else has any opinion still would be glad to hear it. One thing I know for sure if you are looking at a horse with any kind of foot problem or feet that have potential to cause problems, RUN. I have had this horse for 16 years and his foot problems have been the bane of his existence and mine. I think if I had been more experienced and had access to better farriers at times things might have been different but I guess that's water under the bridge now. I would never put shoes on a horse now unless there was no other option. Robin fit an oval foot better (they were designed for Arabians and endurance horses first I think) than a really round foot, but the gaiter helps stabilize the boot. Easy Boots are not super easy to put on, though. If you are riding on groomed trails and fields, I'd suggest the Renegades. Sue Banks Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Fjord Hair Coats
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have had 5 fjords in Florida and all except one came from cold climates originally. There is variation among individuals on how heavy a coat they grow and how often they need to be clipped but what I have found is most usually, the longer they are in the warm climate, the less coat they grow and the fewer times a year they need clipped. The first 2 fjords I had down here were a mare and a gelding and they came at the same time in late September. The gelding had to be clipped about every 4-6 weeks up until June of the following year. I thought my arm would fall off :). The mare probably had to be clipped half as many times. The 2nd and 3rd years the gelding had to be clipped until March and then after that no more clipping after the 1st of February. I tend to clip them quite often early in the season when the weather here is unbearably hot and humid like it is now. Because of the bugs, I do not clip their legs or stomachs early and sometimes use a coarse blade so they have a little more protection from both the sun and the bugs. I am getting ready to clip Magnus for the second time this late summer/early fall. He would not need clipped again at this point if I weren't working him but it really makes a difference in their ability to cool themselves in this very humid climate. So there is probably light at the end of the tunnel once your horse becomes acclimated to your particular climate. Robin in Florida--all of us sick of the heat, humidity, mosquitoes and especially those nasty little no-see-ums From: S Sexton To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 12:27 PM Subject: Fjord Hair Coats This message is from: S Sexton Hi All, I'm curious about fjord hair coats in general. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: peeing ponies
This message is from: Robin Churchill I think a lot of this depends on the climate and what kind of property a person has and personal preference. If I had my druthers, I would keep my horses out all day/night long but I have found that here in far SW Florida that doesn't work well. Horses can tolerate cold a lot better than heat. I put mine in at night in the summer because if I don't, they have hundreds if not thousands of mosquito bites on their heads and neck and we don't even have as many mosquitoes here as some places because they spray a lot because of the tourists. Also I started putting mine in in the afternoon in the summer when I had two different horses at two different times but the same time of year temporarily develop anhidrosis which sometimes is not reversible. They have access to shade but sometimes will not stay in the shade. My property is not set up the way I would have it if I had built the stuff here, but to make significant changes would be extremely expensive, not to mention getting it through the planning committee here. When I move to Ocala which I hope will happen before I am 90, things will be different but for now, I have to work with what I have available as I am sure others do as well. Robin in SW Florida From: "jern...@mosquitonet.com" To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 5:16 PM Subject: Re: peeing ponies This message is from: jern...@mosquitonet.com Why do you keep them in stalls? Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Heat
This message is from: Robin Churchill I guess it depends on if they have access to shade with some breeze and will use it. I think if they will stay in the shade during the hot part of the day, they are probably ok and if they sweat alot that's good. Read up on anhidrosis- it doesn't seem to be that well understood what causes it. What you will notice is that it is hot, they are dry and usually have an increased respiratory rate. The fjord gelding I have now didn't sweat good the beginning of his first summer here. I have mine on something called True Sweat that supposedly helps them sweat. I put him on that and kept him in in the afternoons and now he sweats fine. You should make sure they get plenty of salt and fluids. If you notice they are not sweating, wet them down right away and put them under a fan. When I ride here in the summer, I wet mine down before I start or sometimes mist them with alcohol and water and then give them gatorade with extra electrolytes usually a gallon before I ride and 2 gallons after I ride which they suck right down. I use 2-3 scoops to an 8 qt. bucket. I haven't really started giving them pre-ride gatorade yet but it will be coming soon. I also usually only work them for about 30 minutes with several walk breaks. They can't work like they would in normal weather when it is as hot and humid as we get in the summer. I also ride so I am finished by 9:30 in the morning or start after 6 in the evening. Stay cool, Robin Should I shut them into the run in shed during the day? Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Fjord Smarts
This message is from: Robin Churchill The perimeter of the property where we live is surrounded by chain link fence and originally had barb wire on top. When we moved here, I had what I thought was all the barb wire removed and put electric fence inside the perimeter fence to keep the horses away from it. It would be very expensive to take down the present fencing because half of it is grown in with vegetation, etc and knowing Sanibel, they would say I couldn't put up another fence. At any rate, one day I looked out and did not see our previous fjord gelding so went looking for him. He had foraged his way into a little thicket where there was a piece of old barb wire that got missed and got it around one of his legs. He was just standing there waiting for me to save him. There was not a scratch on him so it seemed he had not struggled at all, but realized he was in trouble and just waited. A similar situation happened to my warmblood when he was a baby before I owned him. The people who sold him to me told me he got into some old barb wire and just waited for them to come and get him and he has usually been extremely sensible in other situations as well. Robin The thing which we find remarkable is that when it happens they have always displayed the presence of mind to stand quietly and wait until their humans arrive to extricate them. This is so unlike many instances we have known where horses of other breeds have panicked in similar situations and done themselves serious damage. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Hay
This message is from: Robin Churchill The sad thing about it is that I am almost happy to pay what I am paying if the hay is good and all edible. Sometimes we will get hay that 1 or 2 or more of 10,20,30 bales either were cut on the edge and are full of weeds or weren't cured well enough and smell off and I won't feed something like that because $50 is nothing compared to taking a horse across the state for a visit to Palm Beach Equine in the middle of the night so I end up giving it away to feed to someone's cows. At some places, I can take it back, but it is so far that it's not worth the fuel and the trouble. Here we just get whatever we get and if you don't have air conditioning for your hay in the summer, you can't keep it long. I have a little air conditioner in my hay room so I can keep hay for a long time and kind of stock up but nothing compared to people in cooler climates who can buy hundreds of bales at a time. I think I can fit about 60 in my little feed barn if I really stuff it full. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Feed for obese fjord
This message is from: Robin Churchill Hay here is anywhere from $12-16.50 or more for a 50-60 # bale of Timothy, T/A or orchard grass. I pay $40 for a 110-120 pound bale of straight western or canadian timothy. Today I paid $24 each for 2 bales of some kind of orchard grass probably about 70 lb. I guess it is because we are so far away from where the cool grass hay is grown. Local hay which is some kind of Bermuda either coastal, jiggs or tifton is anywhere from $8-10 for about a 40# bale but generally it is kind of dry and fine without much nutritional value or at least that's what we get. Sometimes early in the summer you can get some pretty nice local hay. Also if you are using a weight tape on your horse, I was always told they underestimate the weight by around 10%. Well, my 17 h warmblood weighs 1230 lb on the weight tape. I took him to UF last month for something and they actually weighed him--1470 pounds, so the weight tape underestimated him quite a bit more than 10%. I knew he weighed more than 1230 but I couldn't believe he almost weighed 1500 pounds because he is not at all fat. Robin in SW Florida where it is hot, humid and buggy already This message is from: jern...@mosquitonet.com And I thought hay was expensive here! Probably about the same right now at the feed store as yours, but was $350/ ton at the growers last summer or about $12.50/ 70 lb bale. . Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Another confirmed case of rabies in a horse in SW Florida
This message is from: Robin Churchill North Fort Myers, the previous case was in Felda which is near Fort Myers. We are concerned that this represents an increase in the rabies incidence among wild animals in the area. My vet diagnosed the case and our group saw all the exposed people. The whole thing could have been prevented had the horse been vaccinated and many of the exposures could have been prevented had people used some common sense, but I guess they just didn't realize the horse could have something that was potentially contagious to people. On the other hand, were I a boarding barn owner, I would not take a known sick horse into my facility without a good way to quarantine it. The horse almost was not diagnosed because it went down and the people called the vet to cancel since they thought it was too late since the horse seemed to be dying which it did. He came anyway and realized what the horse likely had and proceeded accordingly. I think it is ridiculous that states require coggins tests but not rabies vaccination for horses. Does anyone on the list live in a state where rabies vaccination is required for horses? Robin From: Kathleen Prince To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 3:25 PM Subject: Re: Another confirmed case of rabies in a horse in SW Florida This message is from: Kathleen Prince Robin do you know what city? My girls both got vaccinated wednesday :-) -- Kathleen Prince kathl...@pookiebros.com Pookie Bros. Pet Sitting Professional Pet Care In Your Home! http://www.pookiebros.com On Apr 20, 2012, at 9:08 PM, Robin Churchill wrote: > This message is from: Robin Churchill > > > We have had a second case of confirmed rabies in a horse in our > area in the > last 2 months. There was no documented history of vaccination in > the horse > who became ill last Friday and died on Sunday. Approximately 8-10 > people were > exposed and are receiving post-exposure prophylaxis which > apparently costs > more than $2000 for people who are uninsured or whose insurance > will not pay > for it. The health department in our county no longer provides it > due to > budget cuts. If you purchase or somehow acquire a new horse, ask for > documentation of the horse's vaccinations. It is unwise to take > someone's word > that the horse's vaccines are up-to-date as the owner of this horse > did. It is > also prudent to keep new horses separated and minimize exposure to > people and > other horses until you are sure that they are healthy and they have > been > vaccinated. Keep your horses and yourself safe and vaccinate them > for rabies > annually. > > Robin in SW Florida > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Browbands, Fly masks for sale
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have several black leather dressage browbands for sale. Some are plain, some are fancy, some new and some used. They range in size from 151/2 to 16 1/2 inches and all are too small for either horse's head. I can't believe the fjord is now in a 17 inch browband but he is. I will sell them for $5 to $20 depending on whether new, used etc. There are 2 plain black leather, one with little crystals, one with different colored jewels and one with copper clenches. I have 2 horse size Farnam supermasks, one is lightly used kind of copper colored with black trim but looks like new and the other is new still in the box white with green plaid and green trim. Again both too small for my fjord's head. These run about $14 new. I'll sell the new one for $10 and the used one for $8. If anyone interested, e-mail me privately and I can send you a picture of the browbands with the size. Any of this stuff should be cheap to ship in an envelope or flat rate box. Cheers, Robin in SW Fl Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: neighbors
This message is from: Robin Churchill This message is from: "Debby" . But the 4wheelers and the dirt bikes, that are not street legal anyway, are noisy, the more noise they make, the more fun they have, and it will get the horses to running. I can understand the concern about the footing being muddy but if he does it all the time, they should get used to it and settle down. Maybe you could put them out one or two at a time when he is doing it until they get used to it.Probably with a big group,they feed off each other's excitement. I am afraid if you threaten the guy to call the sheriff, he might do something mean to your horses. I think your best bet is either make friends with him or get the horses used to the 4-wheelers. I have two of them, which I use to drag my arena and do other work around here and my guys don't blink an eye at them. I can drive right up to them, no problem, but they are used to them. In fact, since I broke my foot about 2 weeks ago, I ride one of mine to the back to feed in the morning and night and my guys are thrilled to hear that ATV speeding down the driveway. I am also right next door to a little shopping plaza thing and they have a bunch of dumpsters which for some reason they usually empty right about the time I am riding in the arena. My guys got used to the noise, which is so close and loud, you can almost feel it--so annoying. They don't blink an eye or miss a step. Same for people blowing or weed whacking at the next door neighbors or the shopping plaza right across the arena fence. It happens all the time and they could care less. I used to get really annoyed at all these distractions but now I just figure it is good training for when they go somewhere and may encounter some of this stuff. Most of the time you can't do anything about this kind of stuff anyway except stew. I would either talk to the guy and try to get him on your side or use it as a training opportunity. Robin in SW Florida Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Heart murmurs in horses
This message is from: Robin Churchill http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/11100.htm http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/horse-health/2004/december/25/veterinary-top ics-when-foals-have-heart-problems.aspx http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ceh/docs/horsereport/pubs-HR24-4-bkm-sec.pdf I think this is an interesting topic and did a little reading about it although there is not as much information as I would expect. Apparently, congenital cardiac disease in horses is fairly uncommon. I did find out that horses and people basically have the same structural congenital defects. They can even have the very complicated defects like Tetrology of Fallot. Horses also can have innocent murmurs that will never cause them any problem, because they do not indicate structural disease. They say the most common defect is VSD or ventricular septal defect, which is a hole between the two pumping chambers of the heart. As in children, if these are smaller than a certain size, they can close on their own without any intervention. As this happens, the murmur may become louder. The prognosis for these is very good. This defect is what people usually mean when they say: "my baby has a hole in his heart". As Mary pointed out, murmurs can come from valvular disease like a leaky valve allowing blood to flow back into the heart but also a stenotic valve that does not open fully. If the valve leaks, it can cause the chamber to dilate and if the valve is stenotic it can cause the muscle to thicken because the heart has to pump against an obstruction. In either situation, the heart works harder and heart failure can eventually develop. In other situations, there is a hole or connection between two places where it should no longer be, sometimes in that type of case, the oxygen-poor blood mixes with the oxygen-rich blood so the animal or person has a decreased oxygen content in the blood. In children, that makes them turn blue at times. I would think it is fairly unlikely that a vet would confuse a murmur with an arrhythmia because they do not sound at all alike. The murmur is just a symptom like fever and unless you know the cause, you cannot tell how serious it is. For example, both mild, self-limiting and life-threatening infections cause fever, so the fever itself doesn't tell you how serious things are. You really need to have someone figure out what is causing this murmur because it may be nothing to worry about, or very serious. I would think though, that a significant cyanotic defect that allows mixing of the oxygen rich and poor blood would already cause this young horse to have exercise intolerance. I didn't see anything about treatment of congenital heart malformations in horses. I know in dogs they do balloon valvuloplasty but heart defects in dogs are apparently much more common. Some people on the chow list I am on have had that procedure done to dogs in their care. However, depending on the cause there may be medical treatments that can help alleviate the symptoms somewhat. Above are some links that give information about congenital heart defects in animals in general, and in horses specifically, which may be helpful to better understand the specific defects that may occur and their significance. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Heart Murmurs in Fjords
This message is from: Robin Churchill From: Beillard We have had him ultrasounded twice, Cheryl, What do they say the results of the ultrasounds show? As in people, the prognosis for this horse depends on what the cause of the murmur is. Some people, for example, have what we call innocent murmurs or flow murmurs that don't indicate a structural heart defect and really are of no consequence. These occur more frequently in certain situations and generally children grow out of these. The vet described the murmur as massive, but what did he or she mean by that? The loudness of the murmur is sometimes but not always associated with the severity of the defect. For example when a child has a VSD or ventricular septal defect, the murmur may actually get louder as the hole gets smaller. In other situations, the loudness of the murmur and the phase in which it occurs can be diagnostic of the problem and it's severity. A good pediatric cardiologist, especially an old one can tell what the heart defect is by just listening to a child's heart. The murmur in this young horse is obviously congenital but some of the others who wrote in sound like they have horses with acquired murmurs which may have been the result of endocarditis or infection of the heart or other conditions which would have a different prognosis. If you can take this horse to a university for evaluation or a cardiac specialist, they can probably give you a much better idea of the exact diagnosis and the scope of the problem which will help determine what the long-term prognosis for the horse's condition is and what course you should take. I am sure everyone would be interested in what you find out about this fellow, I certainly am. Best regards, Robin in warmer than usual for this time of year southwest florida Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Busy Horse Bags and Rabies
This message is from: Robin Churchill Just a follow-up on the Busy Horse Bags. I purchased several of these for my fjord gelding who would bolt his hay to the point of almost choking as well as my warmblood who didn't need them that much but, what the heck. They have been great. They are holding up very well and easy to maintain with just rinsing out weekly. I was afraid the fjord would get frustrated and tear his up, but no problem yet. He actually seems to enjoy the challenge of it. I would highly recommend them. On another note, a horse in our local area was euthanized last week and confirmed to have rabies. As you may or may not know, rabies is fatal in humans and animals after clinical symptoms begin.There is no effective treatment, only prophylactic vaccination after exposure, before symptoms begin. The problem with rabies in horses is that at the beginning of the illness or possibly through the whole illness, the diagnosis may not be suspected and therefore anyone who comes in contact with the horse's saliva is exposed. I don't know about your horse,s but it is difficult not to get slobbered on on at least a daily basis with mine, which is how the virus is spread. If you do not vaccinate your horse against rabies, you should. It is a safe vaccine and much less expensive than having several family members vaccinated with the 4 dose series if they are exposed, not to mention the risk of death to your horse if it comes into contact with a rabid animal and is unvaccinated and the risk of exposure to anyone who comes in contact with the horse. Also, post-exposure prophylaxis vaccination used to be free at local health departments, but due to budget cuts, many like ours are no longer providing the vaccine and it is not an inexpensive series. Robin in Florida where some cold Canadian air is going to drive temps down into the 50s for the next couple of days Brrr Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: fjord blood values
This message is from: Robin Churchill When my fjords have had blood drawn in the past, they also had low RBC or hemoglobin values without any symptoms. I think it is probably normal for them. My understanding of it is that horses sequester red cells in the spleen and it is difficult sometimes to get a totally accurate measurement of what their real RBC count is. It is probably unwise to supplement with iron unless there is some reason to really think they have iron deficiency. At least in people, too much iron can be worse than not enough, although most people with iron overload get it from repeated transfusions rather than supplementation. I would probably research the risks and potential benefits of iron supplementation in horses before giving Red Cell. In terms of the fibrinogen and WBC, unless she did the test because he was showing signs of infection, as an infectious disease specialist, I would ignore it. Values on the high end of normal are still normal and don't indicate anything in the absence of clinical symptoms. Robin in Florida To the vets and my surprise, his red blood cell count was a bit on the low side (RBC 5.66) which she considered borderline anemic (normal 6.18-9.53). FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: training for Ynde
This message is from: Robin Churchill I think it is hard to find a good trainer particularly in certain areas. In our area, there is no one that I let really ride my horses except a girl who just exercises them for me at times. I do take lessons but then I am in control of what happens and if I think it is something inappropriate, I just won't do it. When I have them trained, I ship them 4 hours away to a trainer in Ocala who understands that not all horses are the same and doesn't drill them. She understands that not every horse responds to the same approach and what works with one may not with another. I agree with what Beth said about the stoic but sensitive nature of fjords which is something many trainers do not understand. I would look for someone who is fair, even-tempered, calm and confident. Good luck. Robin From: Debby To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:36 PM Subject: training for Ynde This message is from: "Debby" I appreciate the support. Iâd worked hard I thought, to find someone that worked with horses individually. Iâd not thought of mules and I donât think Iâd have a mule trainer close to me that does more than heavy harness. Iâd found a swedish dressage trainer, was told he was classical. Visited with the barn owner for over a year and at first she was very excited about him. I also visited with a few of his students who were happy with him. Went to a show he was riding in and coaching his students. Unbeknownst to me, he is close to 70, and TALL. Long legs. He was riding a pretty hot lusitano in warm up and handled him great, never abusive. Then did his class and won. Is a students horse. She rode the horse later and did well also. I did talk to him about him riding Ynde, and he thought it not be a problem, but weâd also talked in length about long lining, getting Ynde strong in her backend, and also balanced. His students mentioned heâd hosted a clinic in long lining at their barn. Well, even though Iâd visited with the barn owner before bringing Ynde, she did not tell me theyâd had a falling out. She and her trainer at her barn do not speak unless it is necessary. Talk about DRAMA! But he is popular with at least half of her boarders and until she finds the perfect one to replace him, she just avoids him when he is there. Rides with her friends when heâs not. Itâs a wonderful facility. But he did push Ynde too fast, too much too soon. I gave them no time limits, in fact we wanted her there through the winter as they have the nice indoor facility and wanting to still sell my place, I felt this was good timing. We would go visit once a week, its 3hrs. away. The caretakers are good. The owners way of riding is more along my idea of training. I wish I had a coach around. Rural Texas is hard. Iâve not any plans on sending her off again and not being able to be there daily. The trainer ended up not riding her, had one of his students ride her. Heâd ride another horse and work with others while supposedly giving her a lesson with Ynde. He tries to get as much done in as little time as possible. Iâm sure its uncomfortable somewhat for him too, with the friction between he and the owner, but still, I was paying for four 45 minutes private lessons and it was clear to me that was not what I was getting. After showing up and finding her tail and backend slathered with poop, and her anxious and stressed, this last Friday, we talked to the owner, they had a vet come out and check on her, give her some meds, said no riding until it clears up, which it did after 3 days. We brought her home the Monday. Now she is still a little bit unsettled, confused, but ok. Maybe sheâs worried sheâs just home for a vacation. But her poop is normal and cleared up. Iâd hoped Iâd found the right place, the safe place. Do they even exist?? Debby in Tx Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky941 Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky941
Re: Mineral Oil/Fall Colic
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have a friend who swears by warm water for horses in the winter to keep them drinking. Other things you can try to get them to drink more is either add some apple juice, powdered gatorade or powdered rice bran to water to get horses to drink. My horses like gatorade so that works for them. Some people who trail ride here will add a few handfuls of rice bran to a 3 or 5 gallon water bucket before they go out and their horses suck it right down. I tried that just to see if it would work but mine didn't care for it that much but they say it is kind of an acquired taste. Robin in SW Florida where it is still in the 90s in the daytime and the horses are hoping for cooler weather One of the other things I did for him was make sure that he had access to a big bucket warm water every evening or chilly morning. > From: rjrfj...@verizon.net > To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > Subject: Re: Mineral Oil > Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 14:32:26 -0700 > > This message is from: "Jo Wilgus" > > > > Did the Vet say what the cause of the colics are? Does he colic at the > > same > > time every year? > > > > > it seems to be october or november. my personal feeling is the weather > changes and he does not drink enough. we add some salt to food and put > buckets in stalls, which he repeatly knocks over. each year we try differnt > things. this year the oil and more exercise. we shall see. > > jo > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: To clip, not to clip?
This message is from: Robin Churchill I live in Florida and I body clip all my horses every fall/winter as many times as it takes to keep them comfortable. Different horses have different propensity to grow coat. The first fjord gelding I had here had a heavy coat and the first year he was here, I clipped him when he arrived at the end of September and then every 4-6 weeks until June. The subsequent years it became less and less until the last year he was here, I only had to clip him 3 or 4 times and not after about February. The mare that came at the same time never had to be clipped that much. The gelding I have now came in February and his hair was about 4 inches long. I clipped him immediately and then had him clipped again to include the head and legs (when I clipped him the first time, I don't think he had ever seen a body clipper, he was in new surroundings, etc so it was too stressful to do his head and legs). I haven't had to clip him again until this week and I really wouldn't have absolutely had to yet, but I am working him pretty hard and it is still quite hot here. I try to wait as long as possible in the late summer/early fall because we still have bugs and the sun is hot. I had an aged mare that was here as a companion. I clipped her year-round to keep her comfortable. I think my climate is probably a little hotter than yours but I think you should at least trace clip the horse and there are lots of different ways to do it depending on how skillful you are and how much work you want to do. Robin in SW Fl From: Kathleen Prince To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 4:35 PM Subject: To clip, not to clip? Question - is it better to clip her or let her be and just cool her off as need be? BTW, her daughter (who was born here) does not get the same coat as mom and was not half as sweaty today. -- Kathleen Prince kathl...@pookiebros.com Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: knee replacement #2 and Busy horse bags
This message is from: Robin Churchill I think you are right. People always say they want to come ride then show up once or twice then that's it. My neighbor was like that and I stopped messing with her because it was a waste of my time to help her if she wasn't going to be consistent then later, she went and half-leased a horse an hour away and manages to make time to go ride it--go figure. It's the old adage that people don't appreciate what they get for free. The busy horse bags so far are a big success. My fjord loves his, the warmblood is a little less enthusiastic but that's ok because he doesn't need to be restricted nearly as much. The fjord doesn't seem frustrated at all, he seems to really like working for his food. Robin in Florida From: kngould To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 9:49 PM Subject: Re: knee replacement #2 . I was able to choose the best fit for both of them, and found that they were ridden much more consistantly because the person was paying for the privilege. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Body Condition Score
This message is from: Robin Churchill Well, I don't want my fjord to be as lean as an Arab or Thoroughbred that someone mentioned but because they tend to be easy keepers and can really get fat, I am trying to do all I can to keep the horse fit. I think it is easier to keep it under control than to let them get fat and then have to take the weight off or have them get laminitis or some other weight associated problem. I have been weight taping him every 1-2 weeks and he tapes about 900 # and is 14.2. I ride him 4-6 days a week but because of the heat this time of year, I have to kind of take it easy. I think being fat isn't generally good for anyone unless maybe you are a grizzly bear getting ready for hibernation. I think with these kind of horses, it can be difficult to strike the balance of keeping them at an appropriate weight without them acting like they are dying of starvation. Luckily my pasture is not very nutritious so it is hard for them to really get fat on it alone. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: slow feeders
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have little paddocks for them to walk out in and I wish I had someway they could stay out and not be zapped by the evil death ray of the Florida sun. Every one who comes here says the sun is just different here. In the summer, it will burn most people to a crisp in short order especially if you are a tourist. Although my warmblood can seem to take it most of the time, he did stop sweating for a short period 2 years ago and the current fjord gelding has had trouble sweating since it really got summer. He has been doing much better since I started putting him in in the afternoons. I have a lot of shade but they won't stay in it because that is not always where the best grass is apparently. I also tried leaving them out at night and this year the mosquitoes are so bad that their heads and necks become a mass of welts if you leave them out past about 9 pm. Usually we get sprayed a lot but must have cut down probably due to budget cuts. Robin My girls are out 24/7 now but also spend a lot of time in their run- in sheds under the fans. We seem to be doing ok. I hated them having to be shut in the stalls for 12 hours at a time. -- Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Slow feeders for fjords
This message is from: Robin Churchill I know we have seen some discussion about slow feeders on the list. I have a gelding that is out on pasture a good part of the day and so this time of year he gets very little hay in order to control his weight (my pasture is common Bermuda which is a warm-season grass that stores carbohydrate as starch rather than sugar and seems to be reasonably low calorie since I don't have a problem with the horses getting too fat on it as long as I don't feed them too much hay). He is almost frantic when he eats his hay because he acts like he is always starving. Now he isn't fat, but he is by no means too thin either. I was considering getting him a slow feeder and have looked at a number of these. In reading about them, some of them supposedly eventually are supposed to relieve the horses' food anxiety because they allow them to have constant forage and then "self-regulate" their intake. This is supposed to take some time but I think they are referring to horses in general. Does anyone use one of these big slow feeders and fjords ever really self-regulate? I thought about getting a slow feeder and feeding more hay but muzzling this fjord when he is on pasture so he could eat all the time just more spread out but I didn't have good luck with a muzzle with one of my other fjords because she would get so frustrated with it although I guess she did eventually resign herself to it. I just feel sorry for these guys because they are always hungry and we as owners are always trying to keep them from eating too much. I am also a little concerned this gelding is going to choke because he bolts his hay as fast as he can eat it. Robin in Florida Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Truck and trailer
This message is from: Robin Churchill Yes in Bonita Springs which is about 40 minutes south of me. I just thought if anyone was interested, I could send them the ad and even possibly go look at it for them. My friend had some lady from Ohio buy her horse trailer and I bought one in Indiana once--probably wouldn't do it again but who knows? If it is the right trailer at the right price, might be worth it. Robin From: S K To: "fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com" Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Truck and trailer This message is from: S K This horse trailer is in Fla? From: Robin Churchill To: "fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com" Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 6:27 AM Subject: Truck and trailer This message is from: Robin Churchill If anyone is in the market for a truck and/or trailer, there was a nice-looking four-star two horse bumper pull and an F-150 with 42K miles on it for sale on craigslist here. The woman said she was getting out of horses so she was selling them. She was asking 9k for the trailer and 15.5k for the truck but probably is negotiable. I have a four-star and they are good trailers. Just thought I would mention it. If anyone is interested, e-mail me privately and I can send you the listing Robin in Florida where it is certainly stinkin hot, muggy and miserable--did I mention buggy? Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: high heat and humidity
This message is from: Robin Churchill Here in south Florida, we generally have hot temperatures and high humidity all summer. The problem you can get into particularly if the horses are not used to it is anhidrosis--they stop sweating and can overheat fast. It does not seem to be well understood why it happens just that their heat dissapating mechanisms are overstressed and stop working. I had it happen to my warmblood a couple of years ago and he has always lived in hot climates and I have been having some problems with my new fjord gelding. I have plenty of shade but the problem is that he won't stay in the shade. If I turn out at night they are inundated with mosquitos. Basically what I have had to do is turn out at 6 am then put him in under the fans every day from about 12 to 5 so that he stays in the shade and that has helped a lot but I don't know what you do if the horse has to stay outside. A couple things is to make sure the horse gets enough salt and electrolytes, has plenty of water and possibly use one of the sweat supplements like ONE A.C. or True Sweat. Even with high humidity, hosing, sweat scraping them and putting them under a fan is the best way that most of us have available to cool them and that is probably helpful even if you can't have him that way all day long. If they do stop sweating you will notice them breathing fast and no sweat, hose them down with cool water and put them under a fan and take their temperature until it gets down. I saw in one article they recommended air conditioning their stall to cure them of anhidrosis--I thought "yeah that sounds practical. Good Luck, hopefully the temperatures will come down for you soon. For us they are here until November. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Amish Trained Horses
This message is from: Robin Churchill I agree that it is best not to generalize and to know who your trainer is and their methods before entering into a training agreement with them. That being said, I was advised by a friend who is a vet not to get a horse trained by the Amish to drive because the training methods some of them employ are very harsh. However the same thing could be said about some other trainers I have observed. There is no question that the horses are exposed to a lot of situations and seem to be very well-behaved after they are done with them. I think the best advice would be to go and observe training by whoever you are considering as a trainer and see if their methods are acceptable to you and not to consider a particular Amish person to be a good trainer without looking into their methods just because Amish people, in general, tend to be well thought of. I personally have no experience with Amish-trained horses, but I have seen a lot of horses driven by the Amish looking rather thin and stressed as well as being driven in extremely hot conditions that I wouldn't take a horse out in, but then again, I don't use a horse as my main transportation. Robin in Florida Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Setting up a paddock
This message is from: Robin Churchill I live on a barrier island in Florida and in my experience, you cannot feed a fjord enough good quality hay to keep it from eating the vegetation. I had two fjords here that ate everything in sight like vacuum cleaners including the trees and I was giving them very good quality hay several times a day. I would assume that the horse may sample anything and try to get rid of the stuff that is really known to be toxic. There are usually a bunch of books available on the topic of plants toxic to horses, including ones specific to certain areas.Also would be good to check with the local people who keep horses. Luckily someone else had my property before me and their horses managed to survive it and so have mine. I now have a warmblood and an old fjord that can't chew and they don't eat half of what the younger ones did. They almost ate through a large palm tree trunk in a couple hours one time--the tree still has a big divet out of the trunk 5 years later. I had to fence all the smooth-barked trees off from them. Hope that helps--probably not much. Robin in Florida --- On Mon, 2/7/11, Alice MacGillivray wrote: > > Will a fjord > have any common sense about what to eat or not eat (assuming > she has good hay etc.)? Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: the Jenny Craig paddock
This message is from: Robin Churchill I know that some people on the list like the Nibblenet (maybe I posted this before) but although I thought it was well-made, the fjord mare we had who was on stall rest, made fairly short work of hers. I finally had to throw it away because she just tore the little squares into big squares and defeated the purpose of it. I have seen some of those small hay nets but have never tried any. Robin in chilly SW Fl but no snow - > > Have you considered a Nibblenet, or another type of hay > net? Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Tifton hay
This message is from: Robin Churchill What is the problem with Tifton hay that you are referring to? I don't know about Tifton 44 but I have used Tifton 85 with success in my warmblood who has EPSM and developed laminitis after being trimmed too short. I was advised by my vet and the special laminitis farrier I now use to decrease the use of cool season grass hay as much as possible.I also researched it on the internet when my horse first had his bout of laminitis. It is my understanding that the warm season grass hays like Tifton, Coastal, Jiggs etc do not have the same sugar content as the cool season grasses because they store their carbohydrate as a starch rather than a sugar. The thing I don't like about them is that sometimes they tend to be fine so are a colic risk if you feed them alone so I always mix them with a thicker hay and also they don't have the caloric value of cool season grasses so you either have to feed more feed or fat or give more cool season grass hay in winter when the grass is poor. Of course, a warmblood is a much harder keeper than a fjord. They are also less palatable than Timothy or orchard but they will eat them in the stall or if they are really hungry. Robin in SW Florida Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Hay net
This message is from: Robin Churchill Willi must be more polite than Ulyssa. I had one of those for her when she was on stall rest and she gradually tore it to pieces and it wasn't that it wasn't sewn strongly. She just ripped at it until the seams gave way. Robin --- On Sun, 12/12/10, mypump...@windstream.net wrote: > From: mypump...@windstream.net > Subject: Hay net > To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > Date: Sunday, December 12, 2010, 9:44 AM > This message is from: > > > The hay bag-net-thingy with the little holes is called a > Nibble Net. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Anyone headed south..?
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have used u-ship to transport a dog with no problem. Robin in COLD SW Florida --- On Tue, 12/7/10, Sarah Clarke wrote: Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE:Soft ride boots
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have several pairs of the Soft-Ride boots and although I don't like the design of the more recent ones as much as the original ones, mostly because they are less durable, they can be a lifesaver in terms of protecting the foot without having to do elaborate wraps. There are different orthotics you can get depending on what the horse needs. The Soft-ride might be good for cushioning the opposite foot that must be bearing more weight.I started out with 2 pairs when my horse (warmblood, not fjord) had hoof problems on his front feet so that I would have a clean pair to switch to when the other pair got wet or dirty. They hose off well and dry pretty quickly. I kept him in Soft-Rides for 3 months once when he couldn't be shod then for 6 months when he had laminitis due to trimming issues. They really kept my horse comfortable and the hoof well-protected. I have also used them in a bigger size without the orthotic just to keep a wrap clean and dry. They have a website where you can order them directly from the company. The disadvantage is that they are pretty expensive. Also an equine slipper can be helpful to keep a wrap on if the horse is in the stall.It doesn't have the cushioning of the Soft-Ride, though. Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
riding pants for give-away
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have 2 pairs of Be-lo Boink riding pants and one pair of low-rise tropical rider pants that made it in the dryer too many times by accident and no longer fit me right. The Boinks are a cotton-spandex blend size small . They are faded but otherwise no holes or anything. The tropical riders are some synthetic that is supposed to keep you dry and a size medium. All are full-seat with a synthetic seat. These would fit someone who wears a 24 to 26 size breech. If anyone wants them for the price of shipping, email me privately. Thanks, Robin in SW Fl Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Trees
This message is from: Robin Churchill Our fjords ate a lot of the trees on our property but almost never touch the buttonwood trees or the sabal palms but did eat the other types of palms and palm berries. When we hadn't had them long, I almost fainted when they almost ate half the trunk of one of the coconut palms in a couple hours. I thought it was going to kill the tree for sure but it didn't. It looked like a giant just took a bite out of the middle of the trunk. We had to fence them away from the smooth barked trees especially strangler figs. I don't think they like the very rough barked trees as much which the buttonwoods and sabals are. Robin in rainy SW Fl. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: scratches
This message is from: Robin Churchill I never had any problems but try not to clip their legs close and except for the very old mare I have now, did not clip my other two fjords in the summer. In my experience, it seems that compared to other horses, fjords are less likely to get skin problems with their legs I assumed because of the thickness of the hair and skin. I don't know if anyone else has noticed but their skin is thicker than other horses which you can tell when you try to give them an injection. You really have to be committed to get the needle quickly through the skin of a fjord. Robin in very rainy SW florida --- On Tue, 8/10/10, bbd...@aol.com wrote: > > Has anyone ever dealt with scratches on a > clipped or hairy-fetlocked > Fjord? Any ideas for prevention until the hair grows back? > > Kind regards: > > Bonnie in Florida > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: young horses
This message is from: Robin Churchill I have had several young horses and none of them tripped. I agree with Lori, get the horse checked out and if the vet says there is nothing physically wrong with her then you can try to figure out other reasons for the tripping. Cheers, Robin in Florida Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Horses and Thunderstorms, Turn-out 24/7
This message is from: Robin Churchill I think the best routine depends on where you live, what you have available and are able to provide and the individual horse and how many horses someone has. In a perfect world, I think it would be best for most horses to stay outside most of the time provided they have a dry area to stand, shelter available from sun, storms, etc but that is not the situation that everyone has. In Florida, which is the lightening capital of the U.S. if not the world, it is not that uncommon for horses to be killed by lightning especially in some of the areas where they have big pastures with one or two trees where the horses congregate to get out of the storm, so lightning is a valid concern.Also extreme heat is a concern and horses that can't get out of the sun die from heat exhaustion here. There were several deaths in my area when the weather turned hot at the beginning of summer. I think all horses should be turned out as much as possible but people should not feel guilty if it is not 24/7 if that is not possible in their situation. I turn one of my horses out 12-16 hours a day and the other can run in and out all the time. The reason I don't let them both run in and out is that one has foot problems and special shoes with pads and it is imperative that he not be standing in water. And before anyone tells me to leave him barefoot, believe me there is nothing I would like better but it just has not worked out, I have tried-he is not a fjord and has terrible feet. When it rains in Florida, sometimes it really rains and there will be some standing water for a while no matter how dry your property usually is. I don't want to run out in a thunderstorm in the middle of the night, so I put him in at night or if it seems likely to rain hard and no one is going to be around because he doesn't seem to understand that he is not supposed to stand in the water. I used to put the horses in at night when we had a lot of big gators around because they move at night and when I first moved here, I didn't know where they would really go. Now most of them are gone and I have learned where they do and do not travel. Predators that are out at night are valid concerns for some people. As we all know, some people on this list have had horses severely injured or killed by predators of one sort or another. Also some people don't have the luxury (or curse depending how you look at it) of keeping their horses on their own property and have to get along with what is done at a boarding stable. There are definitely worse things than not being turned out 24/7 but I agree that as much turn out as possible should be a goal. Robin in hot, pretty dry so far this summer SW Fl Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Tip it good
This message is from: Robin Churchill Just because the helmet looks fine doesn't mean it is. It is advised to replace your helmet if you sustain a fall in it but hey, it's your head. Robin in Florida where the weather is finally like it is supposed to be--sunny and warm. --- On Wed, 4/7/10, Carol Makosky wrote: > From: Carol Makosky > > My helmet is just fine and does stand up to soft sand > impact. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Dressage Disgrace - not just in dressage
This message is from: Robin Churchill > "training" as they tied her head to her body in a bitting > rig and left her standing in a stall. My personal opinion is that anyone who ties a horse with their head in a certain position--to a tree, in the stall, wherever should be taken out and whipped THEMSELVES. > AND you are > welcome to watch any and all of their methods from the > ground up and all of it seems sensible and logical to you > and you are comfortable with it. I had several trainers that I have ridden with that would have jumped at the chance to train Ooruk despite him being a fjord. However, even though I have ridden with some of those people, when I was riding the horse, I was there to monitor what was going on and to protect him from inappropriate actions. Two of the trainers who were interested in him are very accomplished FEI riders but I didn't send him to them because I've seen them do things like lose their tempers with horses and use the whip more than liberally and I thought inappropriately. Whips are to reinforce the leg, not to beat the horse with if you get pissed. I think when you lose your temper with a horse, it is time to get off. That doesn't mean that you should let horses do what they want, it's just that I think when you lose your temper, your effectiveness as a trainer is gone and you need to come back another time. I also don't agree that as a rider you should be willing to accept any kind of treatment from a trainer. Some of these people get results but at what price? In terms of treatment of horses, if someone is doing something that you think is cruel or inhumane, it probably is and we shouldn't stand for it. In dressage, in western, in hunters, in eventing, in saddleseat (it happens in all disciplines) people need to show the courage to speak out against abuse and stop rewarding the people that perpetuate it. Robin in Florida where it is hot again Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Video of Toronto Cadora Demo
This message is from: Robin Churchill Kudos to Lori and Ooruk who did a terrific job with their demo especially considering it was put together in about three days. If anyone has tried to do a musical freestyle, it is a lot harder than it looks and especially on short notice. I think they did a great job representing the fjord breed and the focusing attention on the ability successfully use smaller horses and ponies for dressage in general. Robin in Florida where the weather has been crappy considering it is winter and is supposed to be dry and sunny every day Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Hoof armor
This message is from: Robin Churchill Has anyone tried a product called hoof armor? I posted before about my horse with the laminitis. He has gotten much better on Laminasaver and Inflammasaver in combination with a change to mostly warm-season grass hay (Coastal, Tifton 85 and Jiggs) from cool-season grass hay (orchard and timothy). His hooves now look good and I would like to keep him barefoot if I could because a lot of his problems particularly in the wet season seem to start with shoeing and this episode of laminitis started after getting trimmed too short--long story but basically the farrier came too soon and did him even though he didn't need to be done yet. Anyway this hoof armor stuff is some kind of epoxy product that is supposed to protect the hoof from cracking and chipping and allow them to be better able to stay barefoot. The website is www.hoofarmor.com Robin in cool, windy southwest Fl Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: rideability
This message is from: Robin Churchill I think it depends on the fjord. My gelding Ooruk is very smooth to ride and not jarring at all. The mare we had was more like a pony to ride. I think you need to look at the conformation and try the individual horse. Robin in wet SW florida > > I've had some > horse people tell me that Fjords ride like a pony - very > jarring. Is this > true? > > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Toronto Cadora Demo
This message is from: Robin Churchill I am excited that Lori has been invited for this demo which I think is a great opportunity to showcase the fjord breed. Ooruk has been shown in dressage successfully on the Florida winter circuit including Wellington. I am not going to be able to attend due to distance and fairly short notice but I hope anyone who is close will attend and cheer on Lori and Ooruk. > I > will be riding the 8 year old Fjord gelding Ooruk, owned by > Robin Churchill. Anyone in the Toronto area who has an > interest in Fjords, dressage and/or youth, please stop by! Robin in SW Fl where it has finally cooled off Instructions to manage subscriptions are found at: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e The FjordHorse List archives are found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: Dry Hooves
This message is from: Robin Churchill Our area is sandy and is very dry in the winter. I have had problems with chipping when it is time for a trim as well. Maybe your farrier could do them more frequently and take less off. I would absolutely not put shoes on unless you have to. Robin - Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
