Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On Jan 14, 2006, at 11:41 PM, Amber R. wrote: I have a D-Link wireless router - there are options to change from the WEP 128 bit encryption to WPA personal.Would doing this create enough of a wall for most people trying to hack in ? Just turning on one of the 2 built-in restrictions will keep 99.999% of people out of your network. The 0.001% that want in and want to bother, can get in no matter what. While I have been trying not to use the wireless router (given the situation with my neighbour that I mentioned earlier today), I really need to have access to it here and there as I have a lot of work to get done and cannot easily do it at my computer desk. I was thinking I could perhaps create another network name and WPA and perhaps stay hidden from her brother. Changing the name of our station will last all of 5 seconds or so before someone looking will know. Even if you turn off SSID broadcast (of the name of the network) sniffing software will still be able to see that it is there, and what the name is, if someone (you) is connected. WPA is easier to crack than WEP, per the proof-of-concept articles I just found googling for WPA crack. I didn't look for software for cracking WPA but I'm sure it exists, I've read articles about software for WEP decryption, there are several options. Turn on WEP, turn on MAC address filter as I mentioned before, whitelist the MAC ID of your laptop(s) and keep half an eye on your logs. It is really unlikely they will hack in, and if they do, you can either ban the MAC ID of anything that does connect, or call someone about it, or both. Their breaking in is really not likely to be an issue if you enable the built-in security options, and if it is, you will see it going on and can do something at that time. There's a lot of media hype and not a lot of there there, if you know what I mean. Put MacStumbler or KisMac on your Mac laptop. Look around when you are out and about, to get a feel for how this works, and what is really available and what is not accessible even though you can see it. Look at your own network with one of these softwares to make sure the setting you think you have enabled, are enabled. A bit of education and experience and you will worry less about your setup, and be comfortable with the technology and be able to keep your LAN useful to you yet sensibly protected. -B -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Amber-- It also sounds like a story you could sell to a TV writer. Keep us informed as to what happens. It DOES sound like they want your connection for something more than just checking their email and surfing once in a while! LaterHoward -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
I think the bottom line is: Whether or not you thinks laws are good or not, or protect people or not, or are in favor of anarchy or not, laws do exist, usually for a purpose. If you feel it's ok to share YOUR wireless connection with someone else, that's your choice. If you feel it;s NOT ok to share said connection, that's your choice and others should respect that. Should they not accept it to the point of threats (and that's what next-door-neighbor is doing) then the cops should be called. Immediately. Later.Howard -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Brian - Thanks so much for the feedback and guidance. You said: Setting a password, turning off remote admin, and making sure you check for firmware updates once in a while (you are current at the moment for a v3 BEFSR41) are the important things for your setup, as I see it. Password is a strong one, remote admin is indeed turned off and I do check every once in awhile for firmware updates. You also said: You need to look under wireless/security and turn on MAC address filtering and WEP to control these things on a wireless router. I did not provide sufficient info on my setup. Here it is. DSL modem connected to the wired Linksys router. Linksys connected to my G5 iMac via ethernet cable AND connected to my ancient Graphite Apple Base Station which in turns links our two laptops in a small home network. I checked out the ABS and found under the Access Control Tab's sub tab AirPort ID, I have entered the AirPort ID number of each of my two iBooks. Tell me...am I good to go, security-wise? bob -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
At 8:41 PM -0800 01/14/2006, Amber R. wrote: I have a D-Link wireless router - there are options to change from the WEP 128 bit encryption to WPA personal.Would doing this create enough of a wall for most people trying to hack in ? WEP will lock out 99.9%. WPA is better (but pls remember to use a long key). You could also set your router to only talk to specific MAC addresses. That way your users have to be on a specifically authorized computer AND know the WEP or WPA key. I was thinking I could perhaps create another network name and WPA and perhaps stay hidden from her brother. Not worth the effort, IMO. Just secure what you have and let the cops handle any further threats. - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On Jan 15, 2006, at 1:14 PM, bobgir2004 wrote: I did not provide sufficient info on my setup. Here it is. DSL modem connected to the wired Linksys router. Linksys connected to my G5 iMac via ethernet cable AND connected to my ancient Graphite Apple Base Station which in turns links our two laptops in a small home network. I checked out the ABS and found under the Access Control Tab's sub tab AirPort ID, I have entered the AirPort ID number of each of my two iBooks. Tell me...am I good to go, security-wise? AirportID is just a cute JobsSpeak for MacID, apparently, per google, so getting them listed is good; on all my WAP's (non apple) you can have a listing but still turn the MAC ID restrictions on/off (or whitelist or blacklist by MAC ID); so just make sure you really are doing something with an appropriate menu item and you should be as good as reasonably possible! B -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Indeed. Aber's neighbor seems to think she's entitled to use the connection. That's rude. There might be other options though. I heard a friend mention that he had some router setting that allowed him to not broadcast the SSID. I wasn't too interested at the time so I didn't ask what brand of router he was using. But this capability would be a clean solution to the nosey neighbor and still allow Amber to use her own wireless systems, which she ought to be able to do. Masking the SSID might be the only way to solve the intrusion without making everyone uncomfortable. There are also some directional antenna setups that limit transmission in one axis to amplify it in another. But why she should have to spend money to solve this rudeness is beyond me. Hard to live with a neighbor like that though. JS On Jan 14, 2006, at 5:01 PM, Shawn Harley wrote: Amber, Sounds like you should return the favor with a visit to your neighbor (along with a member of the local law enforcement community) to explain your position and let her try out her implied strong arm tactic (regarding her brother dealing with you) on your new found friend. I would not put up with crap like that, and would make it clear that she and her brother understood that. Plus, it gives you a documented record in case he does hack into your network illegally. Shawn On Jan 14, 2006, at 7:14 PM, Amber R. wrote: My neighbour was back at my door this AM asking again (third time this past week) for access and the WEP password. She was extremely ticked off when I informed that I was still not interested or comfortable with giving her access, then said her brother was going to be coming by to deal with me later. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com --- -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com --- -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On Jan 15, 2006, at 6:24 PM, John Siple wrote: broadcast the SSID. I wasn't too interested at the time so I didn't ask what brand of router he was using. But this capability would be a clean solution to the nosey neighbor and still allow Amber to use her own wireless systems, which she ought to be able to do. This can make WinXP clients drop a connection a little more often (due to a bug in XP) (bad if you are a legitiamte user of the LAN) but if someone looks, you can still see the station ID if the station is in use. With the cloaking, the SSID is not in the broadcast packet, but it is in the response packet, so anyone sniffing will have access to it anyway (assuming a legit user connects sometime). See any of many pages for details. http://www-128.ibm.com/ developerworks/wireless/library/wi-roam5.html for example. Again, it's one of those things that only keeps mostly honest people out, like all of wireless security. B -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks (was Re: Wireless router that handles AppleTalk)
At 6:00 PM -0800 01/13/2006, John Siple wrote: There are a few considerations here. I've thought about this a bit. I have a neighbor who is running an unencrypted network. I sometimes log on to see if network problems are because of my ISP or because of my hardware. Mostly my connection is handier so I use mine. I also have an unencrypted network. She could log onto mine if her ISP gets goofy. I don't think she knows that. But the legalities of exactly who owns bandwidth are undefined. No, they're not. The bandwidth is owned by the ISP. You're permitted to use it based on the limitations set in the AUP/TOS. AUP = Acceptable Use Policy TOS = Terms of Service For instance let's say that I pay an outrageous fee for my connection, which I do, but I need to go on a little trip and while visiting relatives I find an unencrypted access point that connects to my original comcast ISP. Am I stealing bandwidth to use it? I would be doing the same stuff at home but ... In the case of Comcast... Sharing your connection beyond your premises is Theft Of Services. Using a Comcast connection that someone has left open is Theft Of Services. Being a Comcast customer in one area does not give you carte blanche to jack in anywhere. And what is the situation of my own home use? I have 4 Macs and a printer all clawing their way to my router. Sometimes, like during Christmas when my girls are home with their own laptops, I have five. It's all my own family. I still pay rent for all these kids. Woohoo! Kids that you can return when the lease expires! This is why I don't mind babysitting -- you get to give them back when they get cranky! :) Why shouldn't they be able to use my WAN the way they can use the heat inside my house? You mean yer LAN. Even with a wireless hop, it's still local. They should, do, and are permitted per the Comcast agreements. Comcast will not provide technical support your LAN, unless you pay for that support. But you're certainly allowed to fill your home with your kids (leased or owned) and their equipment. ...I remember the early @Home days, when in many areas the TOS specifically stated you could not use NAT. To connect multiple computers, you had to purchase an individual IP for each, for a few bucks per month. Entre the Bells and xDSL - who permitted NAT. The pressure made @Home change their policy. Havoc then occured in some areas because the MSOs had used the 192.168/16 block for some of their intranet (local routers and such)... it made routing interesting when customers misconfigured their home routers! And why should the woman next door, who has one, maybe two computers and no family be paying the same rate I pay? Is she getting ripped off? I kind of think so. She has the same service level caps that you do. She can use the same amount of bandwidth as you. So of course she should pay the same. Same goes for her phone line, sewer, water, gas, and electric hookups. +/- metering. Beware them people what live alone. They're often the heavy gamers or p2p'ers that eat all the upstream bandwidth on your drop! I have also gone down the block to a free internet zone sponsored by the city and connected there. Sometimes I go to the library and they have open connections. Is it somehow unfair use that my neighbor can't take her PC downtown and connect with it? She pays the same taxes I pay. Why can't she take her PC downtown? I know someone who borrows her neighbor's wireless connection for free. He knows about it. She admits it would be better if she got her own. Interesting ethos there. If you saw two people steal merchandise worth, say $45, each month, don't you have an obligation to report them? And if you keep mum about it, doesn't that make you liable as part of their criminal conspiracy? Oh there are just sooo many annoying things you could do to this person. Change your SSID to a racial slur. Change it to something that pokes her politics. hum. hum? hum! oOOOo *chuckle**cough**LOL**ROFL**cough**lung**cough**LOL* - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
At 11:52 PM -0800 01/13/2006, Clem Bacani wrote: Drive around the neighborhood, park your car, open your laptop with broadband wireless adapter and presto you are connected online. Chances are you will have more than one signal within that area. You are not stealing a signal because you are not intruding to someone else's property. Incidentally, the signal is there in the air for you to use. Indeed it is a gray area. Unless the signal is originating from a source with a TOS that permits sharing beyond the premesis, it is theft of services. Period. This is not like radio - where you're only receiving. This is bi-directional communication. - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On 13-Jan-06, at 11:52 PM, Clem Bacani wrote: Drive around the neighborhood, park your car, open your laptop with broadband wireless adapter and presto you are connected online. Chances are you will have more than one signal within that area. You are not stealing a signal because you are not intruding to someone else's property. Incidentally, the signal is there in the air for you to use. Not true - it is theft of service and you are intruding, even though you are not literally in their home. The signal you pick up is likely only open simply because a resident in that area who has a wireless router did not bother to, or does not know how to, set up security to protect their network. This does not make it legal for you to surf and is not a gray area at all. Actually, what you suggest above is just as much a crime as walking into somebody's home because you found the door unlocked and using/ stealing their property. Amber -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
I totally agree on this one. I don't think the laws have caught up with the technology yet. It's a matter of the (restating the obvious) the technology having advanced so fast that legislation has not been able to act on the legality of intrusion into somebody else's home network. Yes, a lot of people have no clue about how to secure their networks. Right now, as I sit here typing this, if I click on the Airport icon, I can see 3 other networks in my area. 2 are secured as is mine. The other, it just calls itself 'linksys' is totally open. I have been able to connect to the net with it and get my mail. I wish I knew who this network belonged to, I'd certainly offer to help him/her secure it. Tim On Saturday, January 14, 2006, at 10:40AM, Amber R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 13-Jan-06, at 11:52 PM, Clem Bacani wrote: Drive around the neighborhood, park your car, open your laptop with broadband wireless adapter and presto you are connected online. Chances are you will have more than one signal within that area. You are not stealing a signal because you are not intruding to someone else's property. Incidentally, the signal is there in the air for you to use. Not true - it is theft of service and you are intruding, even though you are not literally in their home. The signal you pick up is likely only open simply because a resident in that area who has a wireless router did not bother to, or does not know how to, set up security to protect their network. This does not make it legal for you to surf and is not a gray area at all. Actually, what you suggest above is just as much a crime as walking into somebody's home because you found the door unlocked and using/ stealing their property. Amber -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com --- Exterminate all rational thought. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Is it illegal if I'm visiting a person and log on with my PowerBook? Or if 2 unrelated persons are sharing an apartment, is it illegal for both to utilize the service? Seems like a gray legal area. Jerry You will find that there usually is not a gray area at all if you read the TOS ( terms of service) for the ISP involved. They are quite specific about how their services are to be used. Of course, I am sure there are hundreds of people who visit friends with wireless connections and just open up their laptops and surf. Is it legal ? again depends on the ISP TOS, but there can be serious consequences. i.e. The person paying for the service would be liable for anything illegal their guest/visitors were caught doing on-line as it all would come back to their IP address. Unless you could prove it was your guests who were responsible, you would be the one going to jail. This was just one concern I had about my neighbour and her brother having access to my network. As for 2 unrelated persons sharing an apartment - In most cases, tenants will share the cost of the service and both have legal access to it. As long as this is permitted by the ISP, it's legal. Most ISP's allow this as many families will have multiple computers and want internet access for all of them. Amber -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
This theft of service bull is nonsense! If I buy a subscription to say, MacWorld, then leave it in the break room at work for my coworkers to read after I've read it, that's sharing, not stealing. If I buy bandwidth from the local telco or cable company and let my neighbors have what I don't need, that's sharing, not stealing. Granted, the telcos and cable industry with their lobbyists have managed to persuade congress otherwise, but those laws are unenforceable anyway- is anyone doing time in club fed for theft of service with their home computer? On 13-Jan-06, at 11:52 PM, Clem Bacani wrote: Drive around the neighborhood, park your car, open your laptop with broadband wireless adapter and presto you are connected online. Chances are you will have more than one signal within that area. You are not stealing a signal because you are not intruding to someone else's property. Incidentally, the signal is there in the air for you to use. Not true - it is theft of service and you are intruding, even though you are not literally in their home. The signal you pick up is likely only open simply because a resident in that area who has a wireless router did not bother to, or does not know how to, set up security to protect their network. This does not make it legal for you to surf and is not a gray area at all. Actually, what you suggest above is just as much a crime as walking into somebody's home because you found the door unlocked and using/stealing their property. Amber -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
There's a difference between sitting outside a public library that offers free internet (with the permission and understanding of their service provider) and sitting outside someone's home and accessing a wifi signal that wasn't locked down. To say there isn't, or that just because it's there and you can use it, is just rationalization of theft. If the laws change to allow that, fine, but 1) the laws aren't written that way, and 2) with the vested interests that the service providers have in selling service, they probably won't be. Have I done some signal sniffing? Sure, I'll bet we all have, just to see if we could do it. Did I continue to do so? Nope--in fact I tracked down the person who had the open signal in my area and advised them to encrypt their signal. At that point it's their responsibility.l My Airport widget tells me there's 2 WEP signals nearby--at least these folk know how to turn their security settings on. :) Later..Howard -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On 14-Jan-06, at 8:18 AM, Dyna wrote: This theft of service bull is nonsense! If I buy a subscription to say, MacWorld, then leave it in the break room at work for my coworkers to read after I've read it, that's sharing, not stealing. If I buy bandwidth from the local telco or cable company and let my neighbors have what I don't need, that's sharing, not stealing. Actually, the latter is normally against your terms of service so it is theft of service - not from you, but from the cable company. You allowing it to happen makes you just as guilty. Granted, the telcos and cable industry with their lobbyists have managed to persuade congress otherwise, but those laws are unenforceable anyway- is anyone doing time in club fed for theft of service with their home computer? Just because the laws governing the theft of signal are currently difficult to enforce, it doesn't mean it's okay to break these laws. It would seem that as long as you can get away with something, it's okay for you or others to do it. Here is an example of a law being temporarily unenforceable - There is a major riot going on in a large city and people are looting stores/businesses left and right because there are not enough police resources to apprehend them. Laws are still being broken. Theft and vandalism are still are occurring. Just because these people are not being caught and charged does not mean a crime has not been committed. Amber -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Howard and Amber, perhaps my age is showing here, and the fact that I don't work in the computer biz. I was raised in the day when you were expected to pay for things like new books, bicycles, etc But once you'd bought them they were yours and you could loan or give your magazine or bicycle to a friend or neighbor as you wished. What has happened in the past few years is that the software companies, telcos, and cable companies have managed to pass tyrannical laws that stand centuries of legal tradition dating back to english common law on it's head. As a result people working in the computer biz are terrified that they'll be fired and blacklisted for installing an unwrapped copy of Windoze 95 on a friends old computer, etc. For us ordinary civilians who do not rely on the Micro$oft et al food chain for our sustenance this paranoia is pretty ridiculous. For example over the years when I had nothing to do at work I'd download my e-mail from the coffee shop across the streets Wi-Fi. I also went over their on breaks often and bought coffee and such. Was I stealing, or merely taking advantage of a free service they were providing? While travelling at night I have also parked next to a closed public library and used their Wi-Fi to check my e-mail, the weather, etc Was that stealing? Now if I were to walk into my local police station and turn myself in for these crimes they'd laugh me outa the place- they have real crime to deal with and don't want to be bothered with this BS. If I really insisted and it was a slow day they might write me a ticket for petty misdeanor theft and give me a phone number to call to set a court date months off. When I arrived in court (most likely an office cubicle with a fresh out of law school referee presiding) my case would go to the bottom of the docket. Around 5 pm, after all the real petty misdemeanors had been dealt with, I'd get my day in court. His eye on the clock, the prosecuting attorney would offer to drop the charges... when I refused to accept that he'd tell me to prosecute myself then, and head out the door. The referee would sentence me to one hours probation and maybe $100 court costs if I complained further as she put on her jacket and raced out the door. So let's quit being paranoid and let some common sense prevail. On 14-Jan-06, at 8:18 AM, Dyna wrote: This theft of service bull is nonsense! If I buy a subscription to say, MacWorld, then leave it in the break room at work for my coworkers to read after I've read it, that's sharing, not stealing. If I buy bandwidth from the local telco or cable company and let my neighbors have what I don't need, that's sharing, not stealing. Actually, the latter is normally against your terms of service so it is theft of service - not from you, but from the cable company. You allowing it to happen makes you just as guilty. Granted, the telcos and cable industry with their lobbyists have managed to persuade congress otherwise, but those laws are unenforceable anyway- is anyone doing time in club fed for theft of service with their home computer? Just because the laws governing the theft of signal are currently difficult to enforce, it doesn't mean it's okay to break these laws. It would seem that as long as you can get away with something, it's okay for you or others to do it. Here is an example of a law being temporarily unenforceable - There is a major riot going on in a large city and people are looting stores/businesses left and right because there are not enough police resources to apprehend them. Laws are still being broken. Theft and vandalism are still are occurring. Just because these people are not being caught and charged does not mean a crime has not been committed. Amber -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com --- -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info:
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
I've also recently noticed a LinkSys open network, and I'd like to know who it is so I could offer to help. I'm also surprised, since our house is several hundred feet away from the nearest neighbor. I guess they installed a high-gain antenna. I also use a (directional) high-gain antenna on my SMC Barricade G, so the signal can penetrate an area with high interference (which i haven't been able to identify). One of these days I'll walk around the neighborhood with MacStumbler on so I can figure out whose signal the LinkSys is, and make sure my signal doesn't reach the neighbors. Since I use an OS X 10.4.4 PowerBook and my wife uses an old clamshell iBook, we can't use (AFAIK) the same WEP encryption (and the iBook can't use newer security methods). I've figured it didn't matter since we're so far from neighbors and set back quite a bit from the road, but I guess I'll check. Regards, Harry Corsover -- On Jan 14, 2006, at 8:57 AM, Tim Collier wrote: I totally agree on this one. I don't think the laws have caught up with the technology yet. It's a matter of the (restating the obvious) the technology having advanced so fast that legislation has not been able to act on the legality of intrusion into somebody else's home network. Yes, a lot of people have no clue about how to secure their networks. Right now, as I sit here typing this, if I click on the Airport icon, I can see 3 other networks in my area. 2 are secured as is mine. The other, it just calls itself 'linksys' is totally open. I have been able to connect to the net with it and get my mail. I wish I knew who this network belonged to, I'd certainly offer to help him/her secure it. Tim = Feel better, look younger, live longer and make more money with Synergy Worldwide: Harry Corsover [EMAIL PROTECTED]303-909-9218 www.harryc.biz -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
You hit the nail in the head. You are the modern day Robin Hood. On Jan 14, 2006, at 9:33 AM, Dyna wrote: Howard and Amber, perhaps my age is showing here, and the fact that I don't work in the computer biz. I was raised in the day when you were expected to pay for things like new books, bicycles, etc But once you'd bought them they were yours and you could loan or give your magazine or bicycle to a friend or neighbor as you wished. What has happened in the past few years is that the software companies, telcos, and cable companies have managed to pass tyrannical laws that stand centuries of legal tradition dating back to english common law on it's head. As a result people working in the computer biz are terrified that they'll be fired and blacklisted for installing an unwrapped copy of Windoze 95 on a friends old computer, etc. For us ordinary civilians who do not rely on the Micro$oft et al food chain for our sustenance this paranoia is pretty ridiculous. For example over the years when I had nothing to do at work I'd download my e-mail from the coffee shop across the streets Wi-Fi. I also went over their on breaks often and bought coffee and such. Was I stealing, or merely taking advantage of a free service they were providing? While travelling at night I have also parked next to a closed public library and used their Wi-Fi to check my e-mail, the weather, etc Was that stealing? Now if I were to walk into my local police station and turn myself in for these crimes they'd laugh me outa the place- they have real crime to deal with and don't want to be bothered with this BS. If I really insisted and it was a slow day they might write me a ticket for petty misdeanor theft and give me a phone number to call to set a court date months off. When I arrived in court (most likely an office cubicle with a fresh out of law school referee presiding) my case would go to the bottom of the docket. Around 5 pm, after all the real petty misdemeanors had been dealt with, I'd get my day in court. His eye on the clock, the prosecuting attorney would offer to drop the charges... when I refused to accept that he'd tell me to prosecute myself then, and head out the door. The referee would sentence me to one hours probation and maybe $100 court costs if I complained further as she put on her jacket and raced out the door. So let's quit being paranoid and let some common sense prevail. On 14-Jan-06, at 8:18 AM, Dyna wrote: This theft of service bull is nonsense! If I buy a subscription to say, MacWorld, then leave it in the break room at work for my coworkers to read after I've read it, that's sharing, not stealing. If I buy bandwidth from the local telco or cable company and let my neighbors have what I don't need, that's sharing, not stealing. Actually, the latter is normally against your terms of service so it is theft of service - not from you, but from the cable company. You allowing it to happen makes you just as guilty. Granted, the telcos and cable industry with their lobbyists have managed to persuade congress otherwise, but those laws are unenforceable anyway- is anyone doing time in club fed for theft of service with their home computer? Just because the laws governing the theft of signal are currently difficult to enforce, it doesn't mean it's okay to break these laws. It would seem that as long as you can get away with something, it's okay for you or others to do it. Here is an example of a law being temporarily unenforceable - There is a major riot going on in a large city and people are looting stores/businesses left and right because there are not enough police resources to apprehend them. Laws are still being broken. Theft and vandalism are still are occurring. Just because these people are not being caught and charged does not mean a crime has not been committed. Amber -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com --- -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
At 8:17 AM -0800 01/14/2006, Amber R. wrote: Of course, I am sure there are hundreds of people who visit friends with wireless connections and just open up their laptops and surf. Is it legal ? again depends on the ISP TOS, but there can be serious consequences. i.e. The person paying for the service would be liable for anything illegal their guest/visitors were caught doing on-line as it all would come back to their IP address. Unless you could prove it was your guests who were responsible, you would be the one going to jail. This was just one concern I had about my neighbour and her brother having access to my network. Very real concerns. You've heard of Spam Vans? Spammers that outfit a vehicle with equipment, then drive around looking for access... Originally, they were going to small ISPs and offering them $5K cash for a cat5 hookup for a day. When the ISPs caught on to the blacklist nightmares that caused, the spammers went wireless and started wardriving... As for 2 unrelated persons sharing an apartment - In most cases, tenants will share the cost of the service and both have legal access to it. As long as this is permitted by the ISP, it's legal. Most ISP's allow this as many families will have multiple computers and want internet access for all of them. To take this a step further... I had a great experience with Comcast a year ago... A friend's son wanted to have his buddies over to play some game over the 'net. A dozen computers, etc. He drafted me to help set up the LAN to handle it. Then the boy started complaining that the Comcast hookup wasn't fast enough for all those people. So we contacted Comcast. Not only were they ok with having that many people connected to thru the one residential service point, but they even doubled the speed caps for the weekend - and only charged him $5 for it. - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
At 10:18 AM -0600 01/14/2006, Dyna wrote: This theft of service bull is nonsense! If I buy a subscription to say, MacWorld, then leave it in the break room at work for my coworkers to read after I've read it, that's sharing, not stealing. If I buy bandwidth from the local telco or cable company and let my neighbors have what I don't need, that's sharing, not stealing. Granted, the telcos and cable industry with their lobbyists have managed to persuade congress otherwise, but those laws are unenforceable anyway- is anyone doing time in club fed for theft of service with their home computer? Sorry, you're off base. Sharing a magazine is a one-way product loan. You get it back, with no resources lost. Sharing an ISP's service uses the ISP's resources. If you are not licensed / authorized to be using the service then it is Theft. People ARE prosecuted for it. An example: Two years ago, we had problems with our Comcast service dropping to below v.90 speeds during the evenings. We complained. Comcast investigated and determined there are more people on the drop than were paying. They hunted the two offenders down and filed theft charges. The people were arrested, arraigned, then cut deals - they paid fines instead of being tried. ...Then they threatened to sue us because we dropped their names at a home-owners association meeting. :) - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
At 10:31 AM -0600 01/14/2006, Howard Katz wrote: Have I done some signal sniffing? Sure, I'll bet we all have, just to see if we could do it. Did I continue to do so? Nope--in fact I tracked down the person who had the open signal in my area and advised them to encrypt their signal. Some of our home-owner association folx patrol the neighborhood on weekend evenings. One of the things they look for is warchalks, so they can notify the home-owner... - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On Jan 14, 2006, at 12:52 AM, Clem Bacani wrote: Drive around the neighborhood, park your car, open your laptop with broadband wireless adapter and presto you are connected online. Chances are you will have more than one signal within that area. You are not stealing a signal because you are not intruding to someone else's property. Incidentally, the signal is there in the air for you to use. Indeed it is a gray area. Not everywhere. A man in Florida was arrested recently for doing just this. -- Bruce Johnson No matter where you go, there you are, B. Banzai -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On Jan 14, 2006, at 11:25 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:18 AM -0600 01/14/2006, Dyna wrote: This theft of service bull is nonsense! If I buy a subscription to say, MacWorld, then leave it in the break room at work for my coworkers to read after I've read it, that's sharing, not stealing. If I buy bandwidth from the local telco or cable company and let my neighbors have what I don't need, that's sharing, not stealing. Mac World is not providing you with a continuous feed of Macworld. You get one magazine a month. When you're reading it, your co-worker, (barring the really annoying shoulder surfer ones) can't read it at the same time and vice versa. It's a discrete product, not a service. Try scanning every MacWorld as they come in and putting them up on your web server...see how soon Ziff-Davis' lawyers come a-calling. Granted, the telcos and cable industry with their lobbyists have managed to persuade congress otherwise, but those laws are unenforceable anyway- is anyone doing time in club fed for theft of service with their home computer? Typically what's carried out is civil or misdemeanor actions: pay restitution, legal costs, perhaps a fine. They only prosecute as a felony in egregious violations. This is the same as someone without cable TV snaking a cable to their neighbors house, installing a splitter, and getting cable TV for free, something the cable companies prosecute for all the time. Or this, you hire a maid to clean your house, then tell them to go clean your neighbors house, too, only you're not going to pay for that, you're already paying a monthly maid service fee. Do you really think they'll do it? These are exactly the same legal issues. -- Bruce Johnson No matter where you go, there you are, B. Banzai -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Some of our home-owner association folx patrol the neighborhood on weekend evenings. One of the things they look for is warchalks, so they can notify the home-owner... Must be nice to live in such an elite neighborhood that you can concern yourself with such crime. In my 'hood you don't wander about after dark unless you're heavily armed. Warchalks- I wish our kids were doing that instead of crack and shooting at each other! I've got plenty of bandwidth though, because I'm about the only person with cable internet access on my block... the local gangbangers are more interested in pirating cable TV. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On 14-Jan-06, at 7:57 AM, Tim Collier wrote: Right now, as I sit here typing this, if I click on the Airport icon, I can see 3 other networks in my area. 2 are secured as is mine. The other, it just calls itself 'linksys' is totally open. I have been able to connect to the net with it and get my mail. I wish I knew who this network belonged to, I'd certainly offer to help him/her secure it. Tim Tim, I agree the technology has not caught up. It is unfortunate because it seems to have given people the idea that because there appears to be little enforcement, it is okay for them to sit outside people's homes and steal their signals. Regarding the last part of your note - when I was visiting my dad over Christmas, I obtained permission from his ISP to temporarily use his cable internet connection. However, when I opened my Powerbook to check some websites, the network Linksys popped up instead. I changed to my dad's network immediately. I am not sure who the Linksys network belonged to but had been able to sort it out, I would have gone and advised them and suggested a way to secure it. Amber -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On Jan 14, 2006, at 8:31 AM, Howard Katz wrote: There's a difference between sitting outside a public library that offers free internet (with the permission and understanding of their service provider) and sitting outside someone's home and accessing a wifi signal that wasn't locked down. To say there isn't, or that just because it's there and you can use it, is just rationalization of theft. If the laws change to allow that, fine, but 1) the laws aren't written that way, and 2) with the vested interests that the service providers have in selling service, they probably won't be. Have I done some signal sniffing? Sure, I'll bet we all have, just to see if we could do it. Did I continue to do so? Nope--in fact I tracked down the person who had the open signal in my area and advised them to encrypt their signal. At that point it's their responsibility.l My Airport widget tells me there's 2 WEP signals nearby--at least these folk know how to turn their security settings on. :) Later..Howard -- Is there a difference then between someone who knows how to turn security on and someone who doesn't if they both have open networks? I kind of like the idea of leaving mine unencrypted. I'm a bit of a commy nist at heart. I haven't left it open because I'm too dumb to set a password. And maybe my ISP will come after me some day. But as long as there's a marketplace out there I can drop them. The reality of the marketplace is that no ISP is going to find it worthwhile to chase down it's subscribers who don't encrypt. They want more customers, not fewer. For a prime example of what's really happening take a war drive through a college campus. You'll find more open and encrypted networks than your screen can scroll through. If service providers wanted to hunt down malefactors they could do it easily. So far the only example of a theft of services trial was the result of a guy who noticed that there was a neighbor parked in front of his house all the time and when the home owner asked him to stop he didn't. So the homeowner called the cops. It's a bit like the laws about copyright infringement on music CDs. Is there anyone out there who hasn't burned a music CD for a friend or relative? Like the service thing I much prefer paying for my music and I like having the real thing when it's a bit of art I really enjoy. I even like the idea that I'm sending money to the artist. Allows him to keep making music. But the idea of copy protection for CDs is just laughable. Nobody listens, not the industry and not the consumers. Even been through Camden Yard in London? They actually sell green discs in public and nobody stops them. J -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
At 1:01 PM -0800 01/14/2006, John Siple wrote: Is there a difference then between someone who knows how to turn security on and someone who doesn't if they both have open networks? An interesting question! The latter can plead ignorance, to the ISP. The former cannot. Then it's up to the ISP to decide what to do (apply penalty, press charges, etc). I kind of like the idea of leaving mine unencrypted. I'm a bit of a commy nist at heart. I haven't left it open because I'm too dumb to set a password. Me too (when I have a WAP here for testing). But I leave it open for nefarious purposes... When I see someone has connected, I try to reach into their computer. ;) For a prime example of what's really happening take a war drive through a college campus. You'll find more open and encrypted networks than your screen can scroll through. If service providers wanted to hunt down malefactors they could do it easily. I think they have to strike a balance... The cost of the lost bandwidth vs the cost of the hunt vs the payback and bad press nailing your customers generates. It's a bit like the laws about copyright infringement on music CDs. Is there anyone out there who hasn't burned a music CD for a friend or relative? Like the service thing I much prefer paying for my music and I like having the real thing when it's a bit of art I really enjoy. I even like the idea that I'm sending money to the artist. Allows him to keep making music. I agree. But there's a big diff between sharing a copy or two with a friend or relative, and sharing thousands of copies to the world at large. I think the same things applies to ISPs. I doubt they fret over the open WAP where someone shares access periodically to their broke neighbor. It's the ones that facilitate the neighbor's bandwidth-sucking p2p server, or the spammer, or ... - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Personally, I do not bother with WEP, but I keep MAC address filtering on. Brian - When I saw your post, I went to my Linksys BEFSR41 Router, v.3; firmware version 1.05.00 and checked under the Security tab. I found the following choices and their settings: Block Anonymous Internet Requests: Enabled. Filter Multicast: Disabled. Filter Internet NAT Redirection: Disabled. Are these properly set? Thanks, bob -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Drive around the neighborhood, park your car, open your laptop with broadband wireless adapter and presto you are connected online. Chances are you will have more than one signal within that area. You are not stealing a signal because you are not intruding to someone else's property. Incidentally, the signal is there in the air for you to use. Indeed it is a gray area. I did this once when I was making several deliveries in several neighborhoods. Airport _always_ found some network or other wide open. I just loaded a web page from Apple to see if it worked and it always did. I was stunned! bob -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
I think the same things applies to ISPs. I doubt they fret over the open WAP where someone shares access periodically to their broke neighbor. It's the ones that facilitate the neighbor's bandwidth-sucking p2p server, or the spammer, or ... - Dan. Hello Dan, I agree - My ISP didn't seem too alarmed at all when I discussed the fact that my neighbour was attempting to get onto my connection. However, he was very quick to warn that were I to allow this to happen that I could be held responsible for everything she or her network analyst brother did on-line. Should he be the type to download thousands of child porn files or engage an undercover officer in a chat about sex with a minor, I would be the one explaining myself when the police came to the door with a search warrant and seized all my stuff - just as Bob suggested. I could face charges and at least temporary seizure of my computers and all my hard drives - not to mention the possibility of being arrested and taken to the police station. No thank you !! My neighbour was back at my door this AM asking again (third time this past week) for access and the WEP password. She was extremely ticked off when I informed that I was still not interested or comfortable with giving her access, then said her brother was going to be coming by to deal with me later. So, I have taken the router off-line for now and am just staying wired directly to the cable modem until this situation settles down a little. Amber -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Amber, Sounds like you should return the favor with a visit to your neighbor (along with a member of the local law enforcement community) to explain your position and let her try out her implied strong arm tactic (regarding her brother dealing with you) on your new found friend. I would not put up with crap like that, and would make it clear that she and her brother understood that. Plus, it gives you a documented record in case he does hack into your network illegally. Shawn On Jan 14, 2006, at 7:14 PM, Amber R. wrote: My neighbour was back at my door this AM asking again (third time this past week) for access and the WEP password. She was extremely ticked off when I informed that I was still not interested or comfortable with giving her access, then said her brother was going to be coming by to deal with me later. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com --- -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
At 4:14 PM -0800 01/14/2006, Amber R. wrote: My neighbour was back at my door this AM asking again (third time this past week) for access and the WEP password. She was extremely ticked off when I informed that I was still not interested or comfortable with giving her access, That is one persistant neighbor! then said her brother was going to be coming by to deal with me later. Deal with you? I really don't like this. Sounds to me like there needs to be a cop sitting in your kitchen drinking coffee when he gets there. Please, be careful. - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Arguing this issue is a waste of bandwith, minds will not be changed. 700MHz iBook G3 640MB Ram OS 10.3.9 Laugha while you can monkeyboy. Dr. Lizardo(Bukaroo Bonzai) -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On Jan 14, 2006, at 8:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: then said her brother was going to be coming by to deal with me later. Deal with you? I really don't like this. Sounds to me like there needs to be a cop sitting in your kitchen drinking coffee when he gets there. Please, be careful. Yah. At this point it is becoming harrasment. I'd call the cops or have someone you know that happens to be a rather large guy be there. They seem to be a little to interested in getting you to say yes now. It's rather strange. --Larry -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Hi, Listers! After reading all those theft of service dire warnings, unenforsable (sp.?) in my view, and considering that I live in Mexico, just across the border from Texas, I went to see the top engineer in my Cable Company Internet Division. The official line: I can have 5 computers connected via the Ethernet ports, and up to 24 via Wireless. So to me closing or opening my Wi-Fi transmiter (sp?.) is a moot point. After 2 years of having it open, I decided to close it (only registered Wi-Fi cards can have access) because I began to worry if someone could be using it to do some nefarious thing, so now, sadly, my network is closed. I liked the idea of givinf free access to anyone living in the range of my signal, or parking near my apartment. I even met some very nice medicine students that way. 2 of them have their cards registered, and can come anytime near my apartment to check their mail or work on their projects. I do miss those simpler times when I knew almost all the people in my city that had an Internet connection. Best regards from Reynosa, Tamaulipas, Mexico! Hugo Diaz -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter Bob Dylan, Brownsville Girl -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On Jan 14, 2006, at 6:21 PM, bobgir2004 wrote: Personally, I do not bother with WEP, but I keep MAC address filtering on. Brian - When I saw your post, I went to my Linksys BEFSR41 Router, v.3; firmware version 1.05.00 and checked under the Security tab. I found the following choices and their settings: Block Anonymous Internet Requests: Enabled. Filter Multicast: Disabled. Filter Internet NAT Redirection: Disabled. Are these properly set? Thanks, bob Well they are set properly, but they have little to do with security- or at least, limiting access related to sharing of a wireless connection. These setting help filter incoming requests/attacks as well as deal with some internal redirection things that don't really matter unless you are running an internal gaming server. You need to look under wireless/security and turn on MAC address filtering and WEP to control these things on a wireless router. Except, my old BEFSR41 wasn't a wireless router :) so the discussions about MAC filtering and WEP, don't really apply to this router or you! If you aren't running any servers in your house, you can check the port forwarding tab and make sure nothing is getting forwarded into your LAN, and a BIG thing, is to make sure you set the admin password on the router to something only you know, and turn off remote administration- some Linksys firmwares were easily hacked and people could get admin rights remotely if you had remote administration enabled. Setting a password, turning off remote admin, and making sure you check for firmware updates once in a while (you are current at the moment for a v3 BEFSR41) are the important things for your setup, as I see it. Hope that helps! Brian -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
I have a D-Link wireless router - there are options to change from the WEP 128 bit encryption to WPA personal.Would doing this create enough of a wall for most people trying to hack in ? While I have been trying not to use the wireless router (given the situation with my neighbour that I mentioned earlier today), I really need to have access to it here and there as I have a lot of work to get done and cannot easily do it at my computer desk. I was thinking I could perhaps create another network name and WPA and perhaps stay hidden from her brother. Amber -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Is there anyone out there who hasn't burned a music CD for a friend or relative? YES Of course, many of us stick to a personal code of conduct and do not justify our actions based on what others might do or not do. Fortunately, most us do not throw wrappers, make noise, speed around, nor fail to pay our taxes. We don't do it to set an example. We simply can't envision doing it any other way. Couldn't have said it better. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Since she didn't take no for an answer, you might want to first contact your local Attorney General's office, and see what could be done. I suspect that both your police dept. and internet provider would be interested in this too--since brother probably has done this for others. If it's feasible, you might also either go with a wired router, or just turn your wifi base station off when not in use--that would deter her from breaking into your signal and stealing service. Later.Howard -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On 1/13/06, Amber R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I told her that I had no interest in this arrangement at all as it is obviously illegal and I am also concerned about the security of my files.She has shown up a couple of times at my door since then saying that her brother is a network analyst and would ensure the cable company would never know about her surfing on my connection and said all he would need is my WEP password to access it. Their persistence is not only getting annoying, but concerning as well. Sharing the connection is not illegal. It will violate the terms of service most likely though if you knowingly let them share it. There is nothing that could get you arrested though. I wouldn't do it either way though, too many potential problems letting them onto your network. Now if they sneak into your network and use it that is a problem since it would fall under breaking into your network. Also they might be liable for stealing of the service from the provider. PS. It did sort of strike me as odd that even though her brother is a Network administrator/analyst, he has not been able to get past the WEP password. Aren't these supposed to be relatively easy to crack if you know what you're doing ? Maybe they don't want to take that route. That could get them in legal trouble. You may want to look into WPA instead of WEP. It's much better from a security persepctive, and OS X will support it. -- Larry there are three things to cry for in life - things that are lost, things that are found, and things that are magnificent.~douglas coupland [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.roadtobabylon.org http://www.citruspub.net -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On Jan 13, 2006, at 10:09 AM, Larry Sica wrote: PS. It did sort of strike me as odd that even though her brother is a Network administrator/analyst, he has not been able to get past the WEP password. Aren't these supposed to be relatively easy to crack if you know what you're doing ? Maybe they don't want to take that route. That could get them in legal trouble. You may want to look into WPA instead of WEP. It's much better from a security persepctive, and OS X will support it Only newer powerbooks, with a Airport Express do. I'm, unsure if it's supported with third party cards, but it is NOT supported on original Airport cards. You can change your SSID, and not advertise it (see the settings info for your particular router) and it won't be easy to get at. Your neighbor's brother could be simply being polite and not hacking your network (which is, btw, illegal, and a federal crime) Their ongoing persistence, in the face of a simple No is troubling, though. If they continue you have the basis of a harassment claim, and I'd involve the police if it seems at all likely to escalate. -- Bruce Johnson This is the sig who says 'Ni!' -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
At 12:09 PM -0500 01/13/2006, Larry Sica wrote: Sharing the connection is not illegal. It will violate the terms of service most likely though if you knowingly let them share it. There is nothing that could get you arrested though. Sharing an internet connection against your ISP's AUP/TOS *is* illegal. It is Theft Of Services. Depending on the jurisdiction and the $-loss claimed by the ISP, it could even be a felony - chargable to both the you (depending on your involvement) and the person doing the stealing. - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On Jan 13, 2006, at 10:09 AM, Larry Sica wrote: PS. It did sort of strike me as odd that even though her brother is a Network administrator/analyst, he has not been able to get past the WEP password. Aren't these supposed to be relatively easy to crack if you know what you're doing ? WEP is easy to crack in that you can record a session off the air, then use some serious computer power to figure out that session's key. That doesn't get you access to your protected WAP. And it doesn't get you access to the SSL-encrypted data within the session (https web browser connections, eg). At 11:33 AM -0700 01/13/2006, Bruce Johnson wrote: Your neighbor's brother could be simply being polite and not hacking your network (which is, btw, illegal, and a federal crime) Their ongoing persistence, in the face of a simple No is troubling, though. If they continue you have the basis of a harassment claim, and I'd involve the police if it seems at all likely to escalate. IMO, set your passwords and let 'em hack you if they can. Just check your router's DHCP table periodically to see if they're talking. That MAC address it records will be your evidence for when you turn 'em in. - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On Jan 13, 2006, at 11:09 AM, Amber R. wrote: I told her that I had no interest in this arrangement at all as it is obviously illegal and I am also concerned about the security of my files.She has shown up a couple of times at my door since then saying that her brother is a network analyst and would ensure the cable company would never know about her surfing on my connection and said all he would need is my WEP password to access it. Their persistence is not only getting annoying, but concerning as well. There's no way (IMO) that he could guarantee this; anything he puts on will have to have a separate MAC address, so that packets get routed back to his CPU and not yours. The MAC address gets tracked, ISPs can tell how many CPUs are using a given connection if they wish to bother. Will the cable company ever know that one wireless CPU is in your house and one is next door, connecting thru the same router? Not unless they come in and physically see what CPU is physically not in your house. Currently, I have turned the router off and just have the cable modem going directly into the PB but this is really an inconvenience to me as the whole idea of buying the router was so that I could use my PB anywhere in my place. I would really like to know if there are any measures I can take to protect my connection so they cannot access it and to ensure my files are safe. All wireless is hackable, it's a question of if it is worth it to bother or not. PS. It did sort of strike me as odd that even though her brother is a Network administrator/analyst, he has not been able to get past the WEP password. Aren't these supposed to be relatively easy to crack if you know what you're doing ? On a non-Apple CPU, it is not hard, there is software now that can do predictive attacks on the key that can often find the right key in a matter of seconds (WEP keys anyway). At most it's a matter of collecting a few hundred thousand packets via sniffing then working with the collection. (Airport cards cannot be put into promiscuous mode, which is needed to monitor packets that are not yours, so Macs need a 3rd party card to do this- but it's much easier for most regular computers). For all the hype, though, you are not likely to be victimized by this. If you wish to go whole-hog: -Keep your WEP on (or WPA if you have it in the router AND all your computers support it). -Turn on MAC address filtering, and allow access to only your computer. The MAC address is a long ID string, specific to a given ethernet card. and just keep an eye on your router logs. If they hack in (not likely, media people talk about it a lot but it's not common), you'll see their CPU and MAC address in your router access (DHCP) table, and you can totally block access to them via you router config. They'd have to change their MAC address on their CPU to get in at that point (which is possible but again, not common). If someone were being bad, you would see them in your router table that lists connecting MAC addresses (my routers have all always shown that anyway, but I don't use Apple ones), and you can then blacklist them. In fact, you could open it up for a day/week (long enough to let them find it and rejoice), note their computers MAC ID, and then blacklist them :) Personally, I do not bother with WEP, but I keep MAC address filtering on. I figure if someone wants in, WEP will not stop them, so there's not a point to bothering with it. They'd have to clone my MAC address to get in, which is a pain and they'd have poor connectivity as packets would get lost (I think). I'd still see them in my logs as I'd notice connections when I wasn't online via wireless, and I could deny them access and change my own ID to let me stay in (repeat as needed). But of course, there isn't anyone doing any of this, at least on my LAN. HTH. Brian -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
On Jan 13, 2006, at 2:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:09 PM -0500 01/13/2006, Larry Sica wrote: Sharing the connection is not illegal. It will violate the terms of service most likely though if you knowingly let them share it. There is nothing that could get you arrested though. Sharing an internet connection against your ISP's AUP/TOS *is* illegal. It is Theft Of Services. Depending on the jurisdiction and the $-loss claimed by the ISP, it could even be a felony - chargable to both the you (depending on your involvement) and the person doing the stealing. - Dan. Is it illegal if I'm visiting a person and log on with my PowerBook? Or if 2 unrelated persons are sharing an apartment, is it illegal for both to utilize the service? Seems like a gray legal area. Jerry -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
At 8:34 PM -0600 01/13/2006, Gerald Buc wrote: On Jan 13, 2006, at 2:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:09 PM -0500 01/13/2006, Larry Sica wrote: Sharing the connection is not illegal. It will violate the terms of service most likely though if you knowingly let them share it. There is nothing that could get you arrested though. Sharing an internet connection against your ISP's AUP/TOS *is* illegal. It is Theft Of Services. Depending on the jurisdiction and the $-loss claimed by the ISP, it could even be a felony - chargable to both the you (depending on your involvement) and the person doing the stealing. Is it illegal if I'm visiting a person and log on with my PowerBook? Or if 2 unrelated persons are sharing an apartment, is it illegal for both to utilize the service? Seems like a gray legal area. Not gray at all. Service is typically sold to a specific household or address, and names a responsible party/human. If you be in that household/address, it's legit for you to use it. ...By analogy - it's ok to use your neighbor's phone while you're standing in his kitchen, but it's not ok for you to sneak a line thru his window to hijack his signal. In my first reply, I clarified with against your ISP's AUP/TOS - that's the critical point. Give yours a read. Most residential services have explicit no-sharing-beyond-your-premisis clauses. Some business grade services permit limited sharing. Full off-premisis sharing is usually only permitted when you get into larger business or ISP-level contracts. - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: security re: file sharing/networks
Drive around the neighborhood, park your car, open your laptop with broadband wireless adapter and presto you are connected online. Chances are you will have more than one signal within that area. You are not stealing a signal because you are not intruding to someone else's property. Incidentally, the signal is there in the air for you to use. Indeed it is a gray area. On Jan 13, 2006, at 11:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 8:34 PM -0600 01/13/2006, Gerald Buc wrote: On Jan 13, 2006, at 2:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:09 PM -0500 01/13/2006, Larry Sica wrote: Sharing the connection is not illegal. It will violate the terms of service most likely though if you knowingly let them share it. There is nothing that could get you arrested though. Sharing an internet connection against your ISP's AUP/TOS *is* illegal. It is Theft Of Services. Depending on the jurisdiction and the $-loss claimed by the ISP, it could even be a felony - chargable to both the you (depending on your involvement) and the person doing the stealing. Is it illegal if I'm visiting a person and log on with my PowerBook? Or if 2 unrelated persons are sharing an apartment, is it illegal for both to utilize the service? Seems like a gray legal area. Not gray at all. Service is typically sold to a specific household or address, and names a responsible party/human. If you be in that household/address, it's legit for you to use it. ...By analogy - it's ok to use your neighbor's phone while you're standing in his kitchen, but it's not ok for you to sneak a line thru his window to hijack his signal. In my first reply, I clarified with against your ISP's AUP/TOS - that's the critical point. Give yours a read. Most residential services have explicit no-sharing-beyond-your-premisis clauses. Some business grade services permit limited sharing. Full off- premisis sharing is usually only permitted when you get into larger business or ISP-level contracts. - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com --- -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
