Re: [GNC] Why or why not to do year-end closing journal entries? (Close Books?)

[Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)]

Oops! Thanks for the heads-up, Geoff.

I mentally tune out those figures at the bottom because I never
understand what they mean, so I failed to cover them up when covered the
others. And it was only after I'd sent the screenshot that I realized I
could have cut off everything below the header line anyway.

I don't have Liz's contact info, but sent John a request.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com

On 2023-12-04 17:48, Stan Brown (using GC 4.14) wrote:
> 
> 
> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com
> 
> On 2023-12-04 17:29, Eric Chapman wrote:
>> Stan,
>>
>> Could you please take a screenshot of the down arrow you are talking
>> about and attach it? I can't seem to find it.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On 12/4/23 20:25, Stan Brown wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-04 17:07, Eric Chapman wrote:
 OK, it looks as if it's just as good not to close the books, if, e.g., I
 might want to run an income statement comparing 2022 and 2023.

 However, does that mean that every time I look at the "Accounts" tab I
 will see ever-growing amounts that reflect transactions from "Day 1" of
 starting to use GnuCash? And, correspondingly, I'll have to run a
 current year income statement report to see what I was able to see at a
 glance in Year 1? Seems less than ideal, but …

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Re: [GNC] Why or why not to do year-end closing journal entries? (Close Books?)

[Eric Chapman]

Thanks, Stan. Got it.

--

Eric Chapman
GnuCash 4.14 on MacOS 14.1 Sonoma running on an Apple M3 Max computer.

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Re: [GNC] Why or why not to do year-end closing journal entries? (Close Books?)

[Eric Chapman]

Thank you, Geoff! I got it to work.

Eric

On 12/4/23 20:43, Geoff wrote:

Eric, see attached.

Try making your screen wider - or maximising it.

Regards

Geoff
=


--
Eric Chapman
GnuCash 4.14 on MacOS 14.1 Sonoma running on an Apple M3 Max computer.

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Re: [GNC] Why or why not to do year-end closing journal entries? (Close Books?)

[Geoff]

Eric, see attached.

Try making your screen wider - or maximising it.

Regards

Geoff
=

On 5/12/2023 12:29 pm, Eric Chapman wrote:

Stan,

Could you please take a screenshot of the down arrow you are talking 
about and attach it? I can't seem to find it.


Thanks!

Eric

On 12/4/23 20:25, Stan Brown wrote:

On 2023-12-04 17:07, Eric Chapman wrote:

OK, it looks as if it's just as good not to close the books, if, e.g., I
might want to run an income statement comparing 2022 and 2023.

However, does that mean that every time I look at the "Accounts" tab I
will see ever-growing amounts that reflect transactions from "Day 1" of
starting to use GnuCash? And, correspondingly, I'll have to run a
current year income statement report to see what I was able to see at a
glance in Year 1? Seems less than ideal, but …


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Re: [GNC] Why or why not to do year-end closing journal entries? (Close Books?)

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 12/4/2023 8:07 PM, Eric Chapman wrote:

Hi, Geoff,

OK, it looks as if it's just as good not to close the books, if, e.g., 
I might want to run an income statement comparing 2022 and 2023.


Eric 



But THAT would unlikely be a good reason unless you were not regularly 
running/storing such reports.


Thus for every set of books I keep, that entity has a directory, with 
sub directories under it. One for the books (and the logs, etc.) and one 
for "financial reports". After a report is run, export to there. So you 
would have all back reports to compare.


But also, a matter of dates. IF you have a YE date that is not a fiscal 
date (no external transactions on that date) you could use that date for 
the close the books transactions. For example, Jan 1st is a bank holiday 
so you could use that date. You could still run an end of the year 
income statement/P at the end of business 12/31.


Note that some of us closing the books would be doing it for entities 
where we would do it manually, not using the the tool << for example, 
"pass through" entities, so we want to distribute gains and losses to 
accounts under equity, not just to equity itself. >>


Michael D Novack

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Re: [GNC] Why or why not to do year-end closing journal entries? (Close Books?)

[Geoff]

Eric, you can still do this if you close the books each year:

> OK it looks as if it's just as good not to close the books if, e.g., I
> might want to run an income statement comparing 2022 and 2023.

Be brave! Try it and see for yourself ;--)

Regards

Geoff
=

On 5/12/2023 12:07 pm, Eric Chapman wrote:

Hi, Geoff,

OK, it looks as if it's just as good not to close the books, if, e.g., I 
might want to run an income statement comparing 2022 and 2023.


Eric

Geoff or anyone else,

However, does that mean that every time I look at the "Accounts" tab I 
will see ever-growing amounts that reflect transactions from "Day 1" of 
starting to use GnuCash? And, correspondingly, I'll have to run a 
current year income statement report to see what I was able to see at a 
glance in Year 1? Seems less than ideal, but …


Thanks,

Eric

On 12/4/23 19:40, Geoff wrote:

Hi Eric

To close or not to close is entirely a personal decision.

From https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Closing_Books
"Using Close Book Option
Since 2.2.4, there has been a menu item for closing the books under 
{Tools->Close Book}. This item creates two zeroing transactions (one 
for expense accounts, one for income accounts). Each account in those 
portions of the accounts tree is reset to zero by transferring from 
the equity account of your choosing."


Try it yourself and see.  It is a non-destructive process that you can 
simply cancel, either by deleting the two transactions it generates in 
the Equity account you nominated, or closing without saving.


If you are interested in what other people do, this topic is discussed 
periodically:


https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2022-January/099274.html

Regards

Geoff 


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Re: [GNC] Why or why not to do year-end closing journal entries? (Close Books?)

[Eric Chapman]

Stan,

Could you please take a screenshot of the down arrow you are talking 
about and attach it? I can't seem to find it.


Thanks!

Eric

On 12/4/23 20:25, Stan Brown wrote:

On 2023-12-04 17:07, Eric Chapman wrote:

OK, it looks as if it's just as good not to close the books, if, e.g., I
might want to run an income statement comparing 2022 and 2023.

However, does that mean that every time I look at the "Accounts" tab I
will see ever-growing amounts that reflect transactions from "Day 1" of
starting to use GnuCash? And, correspondingly, I'll have to run a
current year income statement report to see what I was able to see at a
glance in Year 1? Seems less than ideal, but …


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Re: [GNC] Why or why not to do year-end closing journal entries? (Close Books?)

[Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)]

On 2023-12-04 17:07, Eric Chapman wrote:
> OK, it looks as if it's just as good not to close the books, if, e.g., I
> might want to run an income statement comparing 2022 and 2023.
> 
> However, does that mean that every time I look at the "Accounts" tab I
> will see ever-growing amounts that reflect transactions from "Day 1" of
> starting to use GnuCash? And, correspondingly, I'll have to run a
> current year income statement report to see what I was able to see at a
> glance in Year 1? Seems less than ideal, but …

Here's the answer I got when I brought that up. In the accounts panel,
hit the down arrow and select Total (Period). That shows only the total
of transactions since the first day of the cur5rent period. That way you
have e.g. YTD interest at your fingertips without having to run a report.

You do still want to keep the Total column, though, because for Asset
and Liability and Net Worth you never close the books anyway: the
relevant total is always the total of transactions since Day Zero.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com/

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Re: [GNC] Why or why not to do year-end closing journal entries? (Close Books?)

[Eric Chapman]

Hi, Geoff,

OK, it looks as if it's just as good not to close the books, if, e.g., I 
might want to run an income statement comparing 2022 and 2023.


Eric

Geoff or anyone else,

However, does that mean that every time I look at the "Accounts" tab I 
will see ever-growing amounts that reflect transactions from "Day 1" of 
starting to use GnuCash? And, correspondingly, I'll have to run a 
current year income statement report to see what I was able to see at a 
glance in Year 1? Seems less than ideal, but …


Thanks,

Eric

On 12/4/23 19:40, Geoff wrote:

Hi Eric

To close or not to close is entirely a personal decision.

From https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Closing_Books
"Using Close Book Option
Since 2.2.4, there has been a menu item for closing the books under 
{Tools->Close Book}. This item creates two zeroing transactions (one 
for expense accounts, one for income accounts). Each account in those 
portions of the accounts tree is reset to zero by transferring from 
the equity account of your choosing."


Try it yourself and see.  It is a non-destructive process that you can 
simply cancel, either by deleting the two transactions it generates in 
the Equity account you nominated, or closing without saving.


If you are interested in what other people do, this topic is discussed 
periodically:


https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2022-January/099274.html

Regards

Geoff 


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Re: [GNC] Why or why not to do year-end closing journal entries? (Close Books?)

[Geoff]

Hi Eric

To close or not to close is entirely a personal decision.

From https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Closing_Books
"Using Close Book Option
Since 2.2.4, there has been a menu item for closing the books under 
{Tools->Close Book}. This item creates two zeroing transactions (one for 
expense accounts, one for income accounts). Each account in those 
portions of the accounts tree is reset to zero by transferring from the 
equity account of your choosing."


Try it yourself and see.  It is a non-destructive process that you can 
simply cancel, either by deleting the two transactions it generates in 
the Equity account you nominated, or closing without saving.


If you are interested in what other people do, this topic is discussed 
periodically:


https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2022-January/099274.html

Regards

Geoff
=

On 5/12/2023 11:32 am, Eric Chapman wrote:

Hi, again.

I think I read a discussion on the list about this, but now I cannot 
find it.


I searched the PDF for these things: "year-end", "year end", "closing", 
"end of the year". I was surprised how little I found.


I found this at "Duplicating an Account Hierarchy":

    In some cases, it might be useful to duplicate the structure of an
    existing data file in a new file. For example, you might want to try
    out new accounting techniques without corrupting your actual
    accounting data, or you might need to follow accounting guidelines
    that require you to close your books at the end of the year and
    begin each year with a fresh set of books.

Other than that I also found this at "Other Considerations for Expense 
Accounts":


    One point to consider is that as your use of GnuCash continues, the
    balances in these accounts will grow, since there are usually very
    few credit transactions that reduce the balances. There is nothing
    wrong with this situation, but some users may wish to clear the
    balances in their expense accounts periodically. Zeroing
    transactions can be entered that transfer the balance of the account
    to an Equity account. GnuCash includes a Closing Books procedure
    that includes zeroing out expense accounts. Keep in mind that this
    is not necessary, and that if you need to gather information on a
    given expense account, you can use various reports to extract that
    data without zeroing the account out.

(1) I'm from an old school accounting background, so I like the idea of 
closing the books after all journal entries have been made for a fiscal 
year. Is there a reason I should not do that?


(2) Is the "Closing Books procedure" referred to above the one under the 
Tools menu called "Close Books"? I even searched the PDF documentation 
for "close books" thinking that surely if there is a menu command named 
that, then there will be info on how it's used and what it does, but 
I've not found anything.


Once again I could use your advice.

And I remain grateful to the developers and the community of helpful 
souls who seem very patient with us newbies to GnuCash



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[GNC] Why or why not to do year-end closing journal entries? (Close Books?)

[Eric Chapman]

Hi, again.

I think I read a discussion on the list about this, but now I cannot 
find it.


I searched the PDF for these things: "year-end", "year end", "closing", 
"end of the year". I was surprised how little I found.


I found this at "Duplicating an Account Hierarchy":

   In some cases, it might be useful to duplicate the structure of an
   existing data file in a new file. For example, you might want to try
   out new accounting techniques without corrupting your actual
   accounting data, or you might need to follow accounting guidelines
   that require you to close your books at the end of the year and
   begin each year with a fresh set of books.

Other than that I also found this at "Other Considerations for Expense 
Accounts":


   One point to consider is that as your use of GnuCash continues, the
   balances in these accounts will grow, since there are usually very
   few credit transactions that reduce the balances. There is nothing
   wrong with this situation, but some users may wish to clear the
   balances in their expense accounts periodically. Zeroing
   transactions can be entered that transfer the balance of the account
   to an Equity account. GnuCash includes a Closing Books procedure
   that includes zeroing out expense accounts. Keep in mind that this
   is not necessary, and that if you need to gather information on a
   given expense account, you can use various reports to extract that
   data without zeroing the account out.

(1) I'm from an old school accounting background, so I like the idea of 
closing the books after all journal entries have been made for a fiscal 
year. Is there a reason I should not do that?


(2) Is the "Closing Books procedure" referred to above the one under the 
Tools menu called "Close Books"? I even searched the PDF documentation 
for "close books" thinking that surely if there is a menu command named 
that, then there will be info on how it's used and what it does, but 
I've not found anything.


Once again I could use your advice.

And I remain grateful to the developers and the community of helpful 
souls who seem very patient with us newbies to GnuCash


--
Eric Chapman
GnuCash 4.13 on MacOS 14.1 Sonoma running on an Apple M3 Max computer.
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Re: [GNC] Need advice I use Quickbooks and only for personal use. All I do is bank accounts entries & credit cards, just use P & Balance Sheet reports

[Adrien Monteleone]

Brad,

Does Square have a CSV (or Excel) export option?

It wouldn't be 'integration' but you should be able to get the data out 
of Square and into GnuCash that way.


Part of that process could perhaps be somewhat automated, though likely 
not all of it.


Regards,
Adrien

On 8/17/23 4:43 AM, Brad Morrison wrote:

Hi Michael/all,

It does not appear that Square lists a GnuCash app as an option - 
https://squareup.com/us/en/app-marketplace Square also doesn't have Odoo 
(https://www.odoo.com/) listed as an app option.


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Re: [GNC] Need advice I use Quickbooks and only for personal use. All I do is bank accounts entries & credit cards, just use P & Balance Sheet reports

[john]

Donating money isn't going to get anything implemented. Not only is it really 
expensive to hire or contract for programmers, the GnuCash project doesn't have 
the necessary overhead resources to even try: There's no GnuCash corporate 
entity to make contracts and nobody in the core group with the time or 
inclination to find, recruit, hire/contract, or manage paid programmers--or 
even to create that corporate entity to make contracts.

At this point we don't even have enough programmers to make much progress on 
moving GnuCash forward on the published roadmap 
(https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Roadmap) never mind the several hundred open 
enhancement requests, several hundred more open bugs, paying down GnuCash's 
huge burden of technical debt, and keeping up with technology changes in 
dependency packages.

Regards,
John Ralls


> On Aug 17, 2023, at 02:43, Brad Morrison  wrote:
> 
> Hi Michael/all,
> 
> It does not appear that Square lists a GnuCash app as an option - 
> https://squareup.com/us/en/app-marketplace Square also doesn't have Odoo 
> (https://www.odoo.com/) listed as an app option.
> 
> I do not know what those kinds of technical integrations would involve, but I 
> assume that it would be a lot of work!
> 
> My point in reminding people of the limits of GnuCash's capabilities is to 
> say that if we want to increase those capabilities, they need to be paid for. 
> It is unfair to expect people to donate as much to this or any open source 
> project as the core folks of such projects typically do.
> 
> "If anyone is interested in expanding GnuCash's capabilities, feel free to 
> donate to the project here (https://www.gnucash.org/donate.phtml), just be 
> aware that for US based taxpayers, GnuCash is not a 501c3 registered 
> nonprofit and does not have a fiscal sponsor like some other open source 
> projects (https://sfconservancy.org/projects/current/ or 
> https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/), so those donations may not be tax 
> deductible if the taxpayer itemizes their deductions 
> (https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc506)."
> 
> I wouldn't mind donating my time to try to help GnuCash apply to SFC &/or SPI 
> to become a fiscally sponsored nonprofit, but I would need help and 
> permission.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> On 8/12/23 06:39, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
>> On 8/12/2023 9:02 AM, Brad Morrison wrote:
>>> Hi Gregory/Susan/Richard/all,
>>> 
>>> I think that it is important to remember that GnuCash is an all volunteer 
>>> project and not an accounting system suitable for almost any type of 
>>> organization, other than a very simple one:
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/1623#issuecomment-1583966278 - "But 
>>> GnuCash isn't suitable for large, or even small, enterprises and never will 
>>> be. GnuCash is for tiny and simple enterprises; we often say individuals 
>>> and sole proprietorships. Even having employees makes using GnuCash a 
>>> dubious proposition (no payroll module), as does carrying more than a very 
>>> few line items of inventory (no inventory module) or performing any sort of 
>>> manufacturing (no bill of materials or cost accounting modules). 
>> 
>> 
>> I disagree in the sense that in the days of pen and ink on paper all of 
>> those things were done before we had computers. Using gnucash you can do 
>> anything you could pen and ink on paper.
>> 
>> What is being said is that gnucash is not an "integrated business system" 
>> with multiple components sending feeds to each other. Components like POS, 
>> inventory, payroll, etc. are not PART of ":general ledger" (gnucash as 
>> normally used). Those other components would be storing data that isn't 
>> financial as well as what is and is sent to by "feeds".
>> 
>> For example, besides things like unit cost of batch an inventory system is 
>> dealing with things like shelving location, restock level, primary and 
>> secondary sources, etc. A POS system is tracking things like the ID of the 
>> sales person currently at the register. The payroll system things like 
>> emergency contact, length of service, etc.
>> 
>> MY druthers? I am opposed to "monolithic" systems, much preferring "modular" 
>> systems << and remember, I used to work on/design LARGE systems >> If 
>> nothing else, makes changing and testing MUCH easier since well defined 
>> boundaries and data exchange between components. So while I do not think the 
>> developers of gnucash should tackle these other components PERHAPS it would 
>> make sense to make gnucash (the general ledger component) a module that 
>> could receive "feeds". Then others could decide to tackle one or more of 
>> these other parts of "a business system". Hopefully also keeping them 
>> modular (as they might be feeding each other as well as feeding general 
>> ledger. For example, POS would feed both "general ledger" (the money part of 
>> the sale)  AND inventory  (the physical part of the sale).
>> 
>> Michael D Novack
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [GNC] Need advice I use Quickbooks and only for personal use. All I do is bank accounts entries & credit cards, just use P & Balance Sheet reports

[Brad Morrison]

Hi Michael/all,

It does not appear that Square lists a GnuCash app as an option - 
https://squareup.com/us/en/app-marketplace Square also doesn't have Odoo 
(https://www.odoo.com/) listed as an app option.


I do not know what those kinds of technical integrations would involve, 
but I assume that it would be a lot of work!


My point in reminding people of the limits of GnuCash's capabilities is 
to say that if we want to increase those capabilities, they need to be 
paid for. It is unfair to expect people to donate as much to this or any 
open source project as the core folks of such projects typically do.


"If anyone is interested in expanding GnuCash's capabilities, feel free 
to donate to the project here (https://www.gnucash.org/donate.phtml), 
just be aware that for US based taxpayers, GnuCash is not a 501c3 
registered nonprofit and does not have a fiscal sponsor like some other 
open source projects (https://sfconservancy.org/projects/current/ or 
https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/), so those donations may not be tax 
deductible if the taxpayer itemizes their deductions 
(https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc506)."


I wouldn't mind donating my time to try to help GnuCash apply to SFC 
&/or SPI to become a fiscally sponsored nonprofit, but I would need help 
and permission.


Thanks,

Brad


On 8/12/23 06:39, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:

On 8/12/2023 9:02 AM, Brad Morrison wrote:

Hi Gregory/Susan/Richard/all,

I think that it is important to remember that GnuCash is an all 
volunteer project and not an accounting system suitable for almost 
any type of organization, other than a very simple one:


https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/1623#issuecomment-1583966278 
- "But GnuCash isn't suitable for large, or even small, enterprises 
and never will be. GnuCash is for tiny and simple enterprises; we 
often say individuals and sole proprietorships. Even having employees 
makes using GnuCash a dubious proposition (no payroll module), as 
does carrying more than a very few line items of inventory (no 
inventory module) or performing any sort of manufacturing (no bill of 
materials or cost accounting modules). 



I disagree in the sense that in the days of pen and ink on paper all 
of those things were done before we had computers. Using gnucash you 
can do anything you could pen and ink on paper.


What is being said is that gnucash is not an "integrated business 
system" with multiple components sending feeds to each other. 
Components like POS, inventory, payroll, etc. are not PART of 
":general ledger" (gnucash as normally used). Those other components 
would be storing data that isn't financial as well as what is and is 
sent to by "feeds".


For example, besides things like unit cost of batch an inventory 
system is dealing with things like shelving location, restock level, 
primary and secondary sources, etc. A POS system is tracking things 
like the ID of the sales person currently at the register. The payroll 
system things like emergency contact, length of service, etc.


MY druthers? I am opposed to "monolithic" systems, much preferring 
"modular" systems << and remember, I used to work on/design LARGE 
systems >> If nothing else, makes changing and testing MUCH easier 
since well defined boundaries and data exchange between components. So 
while I do not think the developers of gnucash should tackle these 
other components PERHAPS it would make sense to make gnucash (the 
general ledger component) a module that could receive "feeds". Then 
others could decide to tackle one or more of these other parts of "a 
business system". Hopefully also keeping them modular (as they might 
be feeding each other as well as feeding general ledger. For example, 
POS would feed both "general ledger" (the money part of the sale)  AND 
inventory  (the physical part of the sale).


Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] Need advice I use Quickbooks and only for personal use. All I do is bank accounts entries & credit cards, just use P & Balance Sheet reports

[Susan Wrinkle]

   Brad,

   Thank you for answering! I appreciate it very much!

   Susan
   Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 12, 2023, at 6:02 AM, Brad Morrison 
 wrote:

   

 Hi Gregory/Susan/Richard/all,

 I think that it is important to remember that GnuCash is an all
 volunteer project and not an accounting system suitable for almost
 any type of organization, other than a very simple one:

 [1]https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/1623#issuecomment-1583966
 278 - "But GnuCash isn't suitable for large, or even small,
 enterprises and never will be. GnuCash is for tiny and simple
 enterprises; we often say individuals and sole proprietorships. Even
 having employees makes using GnuCash a dubious proposition (no
 payroll module), as does carrying more than a very few line items of
 inventory (no inventory module) or performing any sort of
 manufacturing (no bill of materials or cost accounting modules).
 Adding those modules is a non-starter: Consider that it's been 10
 years since we began working on separating libgnucash from the
 application, converting from GObject to C++, and changing from a
 program that can load its data from a SQL database and put it back
 to one that is built around SQL queries. We haven't gotten very far.
 Those seeking a F/LOSS accounting solution for larger enterprises
 should look to Odoo." ([2]https://www.odoo.com/ &
 [3]https://www.odoo.com/accounting-firms)
 I include that last part just to make any expectations you might
 have more grounded in the reality of GnuCash's current capabilities.

 If anyone is interested in expanding GnuCash's capabilities, feel
 free to donate to the project here
 ([4]https://www.gnucash.org/donate.phtml), just be aware that for US
 based taxpayers, GnuCash is not a 501c3 registered nonprofit and
 does not have a fiscal sponsor like some other open source projects
 ([5]https://sfconservancy.org/projects/current/ or
 [6]https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/), so those donations may not be
 tax deductible if the taxpayer itemizes their deductions
 ([7]https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc506).

 Good luck!
 Brad

   On 8/8/23 12:10, R Losey wrote:

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 6:40 AM Gregory Robertson [8]
wrote:


I'm use to QuickBooks Pro but as I mentioned I only use a few of the
features. Is this a good software for me to do just the basics. Also, I
just want to do on desktop, no online. I am not use to your format. Could
you please send me an answer to [9]mswr...@gmail.com[10].
Thank you, Susan
___


I used Quicken for about 20 years and then changed to GnuCash... I also
only used it for checking, credit cards, and some investments.

I did not import anything; I just started afresh some years ago with
GnuCash (I figured that if I had to go back to Quicken, I could, but as the
years pass, this is less and less likely to be needed).

I have enjoyed GnuCash very much. I especially enjoy the fact that I can
run it on iMac, Windows, or Linux.

The one warning I'd give is that the reports in GnuCash are nowhere near as
ready-to-go as they were in Quicken. I struggled to get the reports to
report how and what I wanted.

But, on the other hand, people in this list are very helpful.

_
Richard Losey
[11]rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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References

   1. https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/1623#issuecomment-1583966278
   2. https://www.odoo.com/
   3. https://www.odoo.com/accounting-firms
   4. https://www.gnucash.org/donate.phtml
   5. https://sfconservancy.org/projects/current/
   6. https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/
   7. https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc506
   8. mailto:gregr2...@hotmail.com
   9. mailto:mswr...@gmail.com
  10. mailto:mswr...@gmail.com
  11. mailto:rlo...@gmail.com
  12. mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org
  13. https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] Need advice I use Quickbooks and only for personal use. All I do is bank accounts entries & credit cards, just use P & Balance Sheet reports

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 8/12/2023 9:02 AM, Brad Morrison wrote:

Hi Gregory/Susan/Richard/all,

I think that it is important to remember that GnuCash is an all 
volunteer project and not an accounting system suitable for almost any 
type of organization, other than a very simple one:


https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/1623#issuecomment-1583966278 - 
"But GnuCash isn't suitable for large, or even small, enterprises and 
never will be. GnuCash is for tiny and simple enterprises; we often 
say individuals and sole proprietorships. Even having employees makes 
using GnuCash a dubious proposition (no payroll module), as does 
carrying more than a very few line items of inventory (no inventory 
module) or performing any sort of manufacturing (no bill of materials 
or cost accounting modules). 



I disagree in the sense that in the days of pen and ink on paper all of 
those things were done before we had computers. Using gnucash you can do 
anything you could pen and ink on paper.


What is being said is that gnucash is not an "integrated business 
system" with multiple components sending feeds to each other. Components 
like POS, inventory, payroll, etc. are not PART of ":general ledger" 
(gnucash as normally used). Those other components would be storing data 
that isn't financial as well as what is and is sent to by "feeds".


For example, besides things like unit cost of batch an inventory system 
is dealing with things like shelving location, restock level, primary 
and secondary sources, etc. A POS system is tracking things like the ID 
of the sales person currently at the register. The payroll system things 
like emergency contact, length of service, etc.


MY druthers? I am opposed to "monolithic" systems, much preferring 
"modular" systems << and remember, I used to work on/design LARGE 
systems >> If nothing else, makes changing and testing MUCH easier since 
well defined boundaries and data exchange between components. So while I 
do not think the developers of gnucash should tackle these other 
components PERHAPS it would make sense to make gnucash (the general 
ledger component) a module that could receive "feeds". Then others could 
decide to tackle one or more of these other parts of "a business 
system". Hopefully also keeping them modular (as they might be feeding 
each other as well as feeding general ledger. For example, POS would 
feed both "general ledger" (the money part of the sale)  AND inventory  
(the physical part of the sale).


Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] Need advice I use Quickbooks and only for personal use. All I do is bank accounts entries & credit cards, just use P & Balance Sheet reports

[Brad Morrison]

Hi Gregory/Susan/Richard/all,

I think that it is important to remember that GnuCash is an all 
volunteer project and not an accounting system suitable for almost any 
type of organization, other than a very simple one:


https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/1623#issuecomment-1583966278 - 
"But GnuCash isn't suitable for large, or even small, enterprises and 
never will be. GnuCash is for tiny and simple enterprises; we often say 
individuals and sole proprietorships. Even having employees makes using 
GnuCash a dubious proposition (no payroll module), as does carrying more 
than a very few line items of inventory (no inventory module) or 
performing any sort of manufacturing (no bill of materials or cost 
accounting modules).


Adding those modules is a non-starter: Consider that it's been 10 years 
since we began working on separating libgnucash from the application, 
converting from GObject to C++, and changing from a program that can 
load its data from a SQL database and put it back to one that is built 
around SQL queries. We haven't gotten very far.


Those seeking a F/LOSS accounting solution for larger enterprises should 
look to Odoo." (https://www.odoo.com/ & 
https://www.odoo.com/accounting-firms)


I include that last part just to make any expectations you might have 
more grounded in the reality of GnuCash's current capabilities.


If anyone is interested in expanding GnuCash's capabilities, feel free 
to donate to the project here (https://www.gnucash.org/donate.phtml), 
just be aware that for US based taxpayers, GnuCash is not a 501c3 
registered nonprofit and does not have a fiscal sponsor like some other 
open source projects (https://sfconservancy.org/projects/current/ or 
https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/), so those donations may not be tax 
deductible if the taxpayer itemizes their deductions 
(https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc506).


Good luck!

Brad


On 8/8/23 12:10, R Losey wrote:

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 6:40 AM Gregory Robertson
wrote:


I'm use to QuickBooks Pro but as I mentioned I only use a few of the
features. Is this a good software for me to do just the basics. Also, I
just want to do on desktop, no online. I am not use to your format. Could
you please send me an answer tomswr...@gmail.com.
Thank you, Susan
___


I used Quicken for about 20 years and then changed to GnuCash... I also
only used it for checking, credit cards, and some investments.

I did not import anything; I just started afresh some years ago with
GnuCash (I figured that if I had to go back to Quicken, I could, but as the
years pass, this is less and less likely to be needed).

I have enjoyed GnuCash very much. I especially enjoy the fact that I can
run it on iMac, Windows, or Linux.

The one warning I'd give is that the reports in GnuCash are nowhere near as
ready-to-go as they were in Quicken. I struggled to get the reports to
report how and what I wanted.

But, on the other hand, people in this list are very helpful.

_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Need advice I use Quickbooks and only for personal use. All I do is bank accounts entries & credit cards, just use P & Balance Sheet reports

[R Losey]

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 6:40 AM Gregory Robertson 
wrote:

> I'm use to QuickBooks Pro but as I mentioned I only use a few of the
> features. Is this a good software for me to do just the basics. Also, I
> just want to do on desktop, no online. I am not use to your format. Could
> you please send me an answer to mswr...@gmail.com.
> Thank you, Susan
> ___
>

I used Quicken for about 20 years and then changed to GnuCash... I also
only used it for checking, credit cards, and some investments.

I did not import anything; I just started afresh some years ago with
GnuCash (I figured that if I had to go back to Quicken, I could, but as the
years pass, this is less and less likely to be needed).

I have enjoyed GnuCash very much. I especially enjoy the fact that I can
run it on iMac, Windows, or Linux.

The one warning I'd give is that the reports in GnuCash are nowhere near as
ready-to-go as they were in Quicken. I struggled to get the reports to
report how and what I wanted.

But, on the other hand, people in this list are very helpful.

_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Need advice I use Quickbooks and only for personal use. All I do is bank accounts entries & credit cards, just use P & Balance Sheet reports

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 8/7/2023 8:44 PM, Gregory Robertson wrote:

I'm use to QuickBooks Pro but as I mentioned I only use a few of the features. Is 
this a good software for me to do just the basics. Also, I just want to do on 
desktop, no online. I am not use to your format. Could you please send me an answer 
to mswr...@gmail.com. Thank you, Susan


If you are now using QuickBooks Pro you already know the basics of 
double entry bookkeeping (unlike somebody coming from Quicken). How much 
trouble would you have switching to gnucash? I can't tell. I do know 
that back at the start of 2007 (after the late Fall 2006 house fire) 
instead of replacing QuickBooks Pro for Non-profits I moved all of the 
orgs for which I was keeping the books to gnucash. I had absolutely no 
trouble doing that, but do keep in  mind that I learned bookkeeping in 
the old days of pen and ink on paper << had total freedom how to use the 
replacement amount for "computers and software so why replace QuickBooks 
for non-profits since it had NONE of the special features a non-profit 
would want -- and if needing to do those things "manually" why not use 
free software and use the money for other computer stuff >>


Michael D Novack


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[GNC] Need advice I use Quickbooks and only for personal use. All I do is bank accounts entries & credit cards, just use P & Balance Sheet reports

[Gregory Robertson]

I'm use to QuickBooks Pro but as I mentioned I only use a few of the features. 
Is this a good software for me to do just the basics. Also, I just want to do 
on desktop, no online. I am not use to your format. Could you please send me an 
answer to mswr...@gmail.com. Thank you, Susan
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Re: [GNC] quandary with proper entries for cost-of-goods-sold and inventory

[Fred Bone]

On 17 June 2023 at 15:28, Stan Brown said:

[...]
> One important point: If you receive messages in a  digest, you'll also
> need to (a) edit the subject line, by copy/pasting the subject of the
> individual message you're referring to, and (b) Delete all the text of all
> the messages you're _not_ referring to, as well as any parts of the
> remaining message that are not needed to give context to your answer.

That should read "... If you receive messages in a PLAINTEXT digest ..."

The MIME-Digest works just fine, including having the necessary headers 
to enable "reply all" to work.


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Re: [GNC] quandary with proper entries for cost-of-goods-sold and inventory

[Stan Brown]

Welcome to GnuCash, Eric! I can't respond to your accounting question,
but here are some pointers for your mailing-list questions.


On 2023-06-17 11:50, Eric Hammond wrote:
> First, what is the proper way to reply / request to this email sequence?

You managed to do it right in the end. It looks like you found the
correct mailing list address, "gnucash-user@gnucash.org" in the
instructions that are automatically appended to every message the serer
sends out.

If your mail program offers "Reply List" to a particular message, that's
what you should use. Otherwise, you may need to copy/paste the
"gnucash-user@gnucash.org" address manually to your outgoing message's
To or Cc field.

One important point: If you receive messages in a  digest, you'll also
need to (a) edit the subject line, by copy/pasting the subject of the
individual message you're referring to, and (b) Delete all the text of
all the messages you're _not_ referring to, as well as any parts of the
remaining message that are not needed to give context to your answer.

> I follow the instructions at the end:
>   "Please remember to CC this list on all your replies."
>   "You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All."
> But only end up with "gnucash-u...@gnucassh.org" and get mildly chastised for 
> not replying properly.

What does "mildly chastised" mean? For future reference, always, always
include the _exact_ text of error messages when asking for help with a
problem. Reporting a problem is a lot like giving testimony in  court:
tell us what you did and exactly what you saw; don't interpret or give
opinions.

The rest of your message is an accounting question, not a GnuCash
question. I'm not an accountant, and even if I were you didn't tell us
which jurisdiction you're in, which can have a large impact on the
correct answer.

What would you have done in the old
pen-and-ink-in-tall-leather-bound-ledgers era? That is just what you
should do in GnuCash.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] quandary with proper entries for cost-of-goods-sold and inventory

[john]

I don't think Michaels explanation is very clear, but he's right that you're 
not thinking of this right.

Purchasing the widget is an asset transfer, so you DR inventory and CR what 
ever account sources the funds. That would be Accounts Payable if you're doing 
accrual accounting or a bank or liability account if you're doing cash.

When you book the sale you CR Expenses:COGS and DR inventory; you also CR 
income:sales and DR whatever account receives the payment, normally Accounts 
Receivable or some bank account.

GnuCash is OK for this kind of activity if you don't do a lot of it and have 
only a very few line items, otherwise you'll want to switch to a more capable 
program like Odoo.

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Jun 17, 2023, at 12:46, Michael or Penny Novack 
>  wrote:
> 
> You are expecting the cost of goods sold at the wrong time. It is unrelated 
> to when the goods are obtained (added to inventory)
> 
> To perhaps make this easier for you to see, we'll use an example from one of 
> "my" org as "organizations which had tee shirts, both sold to supporters AND 
> given to volunteers as "recognition". In other words, when we bought a batch 
> of tee shirts, we don't (yet) know how many will end up being sold and so 
> affect the expense "cost of goods sold" and how many the expense 
> "recognition".
> 
> So lets say we buy another batch of 100 @ #7.20 So we debit inventory:tee 
> shirts:debit batch 5 $720 and credit checking $720  NOT (yet) an expense. 
> inventory is an asset so it's just one type of asset (money) to another (tee 
> shirts)
> 
> Now we get back a report from the group who tabled at an event. They sold 
> seven tee shirts for $29 each. There were still four remaining from batch 4 
> (@ $7.15 and three from the new batch 5 (@ $7.20).  So the complete 
> transaction looks like this (if entering as a two way split -- you could 
> instead use two transactions to avoid that)
> Debits
> Cash   $100
>  Cost of goods sold $50.20
> Credits
> Sales  $100
>  batch 4  $28.60   <<  note batch 4 now 
> cleaned out so could be hidden if desired >>
>  batch 5   $21.60
><<< note -- doing inventory FIFO and on the cash basis so invoicing and 
> when those paid not involved   and you could instead have done in 
> multiple transactions to avoid the two way split >>
> 
> But really Eric, this isn't a gnucash question. You aren't asking how do I 
> enter this but "what accounts should I be debiting or crediting?" Gnucash is 
> a tool that automates double entry bookkeeping and those of us who learned 
> doing it the old way pen and ink on paper can appreciate what it is doing for 
> us. But you STILL need to learn the basics of accounting/bookkeeping. If the 
> tutorial isn't enough for you, obtain a beginners text (paper or virtual)
> 
> Michael F Novack
> 
> On 6/17/2023 2:50 PM, Eric Hammond wrote:
>> First, what is the proper way to reply / request to this email sequence?
>> I follow the instructions at the end:
>>  "Please remember to CC this list on all your replies."
>>  "You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All."
>> But only end up with "gnucash-u...@gnucassh.org" and get mildly chastised 
>> for not replying properly.
>> 
>> My tax accountant needed me to supply cost of goods sold, "COGS", but I have 
>> not figured out how to do this
>> Current sequence:
>> I schedule a visit with the client, and determine the likely need for a 
>> widget of some type.
>> I purchase it ahead, and document with a Purchase order. At some point I 
>> receive it and log it into Inventory.
>> Original attempt:
>> Item AcctDr  Cr
>> ---
>> Widget   Payables   $10
>>  Inventory  $10
>> 
>> Payment   Bank $10
>>Payables   $10
>> 
>> 
>> Clean, but no COGS entry.  My best attempt is this:
>> Item AcctDr  Cr
>> ---
>> Widget   Payables   $10
>>  COGS $10
>> 
>> Payment   Bank $10
>>Payables   $10
>> 
>> And when I get the part from vendor:
>> 
>> Item AcctDr  Cr
>> ---
>> Widget   Purchases$10
>>  Inventory  $10
>> 
>> 
>> I am ok with the extra step, but what kind of account is Purchases?
>> Is this even proper accounting?
>> Thank you!
>> Eric
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Subject: 

Re: [GNC] quandary with proper entries for cost-of-goods-sold and inventory

[R Losey]

To discuss the first part, you post to gnucash-user@gnucash.org (as you
did).

I'm using Google's gmail web interface, and if I just hit "Reply", it goes
to you instead of to this list. I have to use the "Reply to all" to make
sure it goes to the list (I don't have a "Reply to list" option). Other
email clients or applications behave differently. Most people starting out
just hit "Reply", and the email only goes to the user, and not to the
mailing list.

I hope this helps.


On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 1:50 PM Eric Hammond  wrote:

> First, what is the proper way to reply / request to this email sequence?
> I follow the instructions at the end:
> "Please remember to CC this list on all your replies."
> "You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All."
> But only end up with "gnucash-u...@gnucassh.org" and get mildly chastised
> for not replying properly.
> ___
>

-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] quandary with proper entries for cost-of-goods-sold and inventory

[Michael or Penny Novack]

You are expecting the cost of goods sold at the wrong time. It is 
unrelated to when the goods are obtained (added to inventory)


To perhaps make this easier for you to see, we'll use an example from 
one of "my" org as "organizations which had tee shirts, both sold to 
supporters AND given to volunteers as "recognition". In other words, 
when we bought a batch of tee shirts, we don't (yet) know how many will 
end up being sold and so affect the expense "cost of goods sold" and how 
many the expense "recognition".


So lets say we buy another batch of 100 @ #7.20     So we debit 
inventory:tee shirts:debit batch 5 $720 and credit checking $720  
NOT (yet) an expense. inventory is an asset so it's just one type of 
asset (money) to another (tee shirts)


Now we get back a report from the group who tabled at an event. They 
sold seven tee shirts for $29 each. There were still four remaining from 
batch 4 (@ $7.15 and three from the new batch 5 (@ $7.20).  So the 
complete transaction looks like this (if entering as a two way split -- 
you could instead use two transactions to avoid that)

Debits
Cash   $100
 Cost of goods sold $50.20
Credits
Sales  $100
 batch 4  $28.60   <<  note batch 4 
now cleaned out so could be hidden if desired >>

 batch 5   $21.60
   <<< note -- doing inventory FIFO and on the cash basis so invoicing 
and when those paid not involved   and you could instead have done 
in multiple transactions to avoid the two way split >>


But really Eric, this isn't a gnucash question. You aren't asking how do 
I enter this but "what accounts should I be debiting or crediting?" 
Gnucash is a tool that automates double entry bookkeeping and those of 
us who learned doing it the old way pen and ink on paper can appreciate 
what it is doing for us. But you STILL need to learn the basics of 
accounting/bookkeeping. If the tutorial isn't enough for you, obtain a 
beginners text (paper or virtual)


Michael F Novack

On 6/17/2023 2:50 PM, Eric Hammond wrote:

First, what is the proper way to reply / request to this email sequence?
I follow the instructions at the end:
"Please remember to CC this list on all your replies."
"You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All."
But only end up with "gnucash-u...@gnucassh.org" and get mildly chastised for 
not replying properly.

My tax accountant needed me to supply cost of goods sold, "COGS", but I have 
not figured out how to do this
Current sequence:
I schedule a visit with the client, and determine the likely need for a widget 
of some type.
I purchase it ahead, and document with a Purchase order. At some point I 
receive it and log it into Inventory.
Original attempt:
ItemAcctDr  Cr
---
Widget  Payables   $10
Inventory  $10

Payment   Bank $10
Payables   $10


Clean, but no COGS entry.  My best attempt is this:
ItemAcctDr  Cr
---
Widget  Payables   $10
COGS $10

Payment   Bank $10
Payables   $10  

And when I get the part from vendor:

ItemAcctDr  Cr
---
Widget  Purchases$10
Inventory  $10


I am ok with the extra step, but what kind of account is Purchases?
Is this even proper accounting?
Thank you!
Eric

--

Subject: Digest Footer

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--
There is no possibility of social justice on a dead planet except the equality 
of the grave.

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Re: [GNC] quandary with proper entries for cost-of-goods-sold and inventory

[Eric Hammond]

First, what is the proper way to reply / request to this email sequence?
I follow the instructions at the end:
"Please remember to CC this list on all your replies."
"You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All."
But only end up with "gnucash-u...@gnucassh.org" and get mildly chastised for 
not replying properly.

My tax accountant needed me to supply cost of goods sold, "COGS", but I have 
not figured out how to do this
Current sequence: 
I schedule a visit with the client, and determine the likely need for a widget 
of some type.
I purchase it ahead, and document with a Purchase order. At some point I 
receive it and log it into Inventory. 
Original attempt:
ItemAcctDr  Cr
---
Widget  Payables   $10
Inventory  $10

Payment   Bank $10
   Payables   $10


Clean, but no COGS entry.  My best attempt is this:
ItemAcctDr  Cr
---
Widget  Payables   $10
COGS $10

Payment   Bank $10
   Payables   $10   

And when I get the part from vendor:

ItemAcctDr  Cr
---
Widget  Purchases$10
Inventory  $10


I am ok with the extra step, but what kind of account is Purchases?
Is this even proper accounting?
Thank you!
Eric

--

Subject: Digest Footer

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Re: [GNC] Zero entries in Balance Sheet

[Vincent Dawans]

This fix was just committed a few days ago and should fix it hopefully.
https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/1609

Sincerely,

Vincent Dawans

On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 12:36 PM Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> I'm pretty certain I saw a bug and fix on that in the last day or so. If
> you want to test a Flatpak nightly, you might be able to confirm the fix.
>
> Do a bugzilla search or check the PRs on Github first to see when it was
> implemented.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 4/24/23 2:25 PM, Fred Tydeman wrote:
> > In the Balance Sheet options, Display:
> > I have unchecked Include accounts with zero total balances.
> > I have checked Omit zero balance figures
> > Yet, my report has many entries with 0 shares and $0.
> > Is there I am missing?
> >
> > OS: Linux Fedora 37
> > GnuCash 4.14
>
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Re: [GNC] Zero entries in Balance Sheet

[Adrien Monteleone]

I'm pretty certain I saw a bug and fix on that in the last day or so. If 
you want to test a Flatpak nightly, you might be able to confirm the fix.


Do a bugzilla search or check the PRs on Github first to see when it was 
implemented.


Regards,
Adrien

On 4/24/23 2:25 PM, Fred Tydeman wrote:

In the Balance Sheet options, Display:
I have unchecked Include accounts with zero total balances.
I have checked Omit zero balance figures
Yet, my report has many entries with 0 shares and $0.
Is there I am missing?

OS: Linux Fedora 37
GnuCash 4.14


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[GNC] Zero entries in Balance Sheet

[Fred Tydeman]

In the Balance Sheet options, Display:
I have unchecked Include accounts with zero total balances.
I have checked Omit zero balance figures
Yet, my report has many entries with 0 shares and $0.
Is there I am missing?

OS: Linux Fedora 37
GnuCash 4.14
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[GNC] Tax schedule report outputting entries outside of selected date range

[jeffrey black]

I'm trying to generate a tax report (federal 1040) for entry into my tax 
software, as I do every year and have never ran into this issue.

Not sure of the version of GNC I'm running on Windows 10.  Running Version 4.13 
Build ID: Flathub 4.13 Finance Quote: 1.5301 under Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.

Both versions are including a transaction from 07/02/2020 when the date range 
for the report is 01/01/2022 to 12/31/2022. The transaction of concern is 
listed as "Tax Report Only - No TXF Export".

I have limited internet access right now so I can not confirm that this is a 
known bug.  My concern is that the report may also be skipping transactions 
from 2022.  I have exported the report as a pdf file with no options selected 
other than the time frame, and the transaction shows up there as well.  If I 
edit the options to suppress $0, no printing of full account names/action:memo 
data/transaction detail, and print TXF export parameters, the errant 
transaction shows up.

Any ideas why?

--Jeffrey Black M.B.A.
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Re: [GNC] problem to delete multiple entries

[Glenn Fowler]

Here is a link to that post:
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2021-December/098934.html

It does work as expected, so there must be a typo somewhere.

Make sure GnuCash is closed first before opening the file and editing. Make
sure the semicolon and space is removed at the beginning of the line & add
the blow in the second set of quotes. It will read like this:

(gtk_accel_path
"/GncPluginPageRegisterActions/DeleteTransactionAction"
"Delete")

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:31 AM Sh. Pepper  wrote:

>
>I have gnucash and windows 10. I read somewhere that to be able to
>delete multiple entries quickly one can make keyboard shortcut by
>editing ; (gtk_accel_path
>"/GncPluginPageRegisterActions/DeleteTransactionAction" " ")
>in the accelerator-map file to (gtk_accel_path
>"/GncPluginPageRegisterActions/DeleteTransactionAction"
>"Delete") (without the ; in the beginning of the line and by
>adding Deleter). This was meant make control – delete  delete
>an entry. I did this but it didn’t work. Do you what I could be doing
>wrong.
>
>Thanks a lot and have a great day
>
>Shevach
>
>Sent from [1]Mail for Windows
>
> References
>
>1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
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[GNC] problem to delete multiple entries

[Sh. Pepper]

   I have gnucash and windows 10. I read somewhere that to be able to
   delete multiple entries quickly one can make keyboard shortcut by
   editing ; (gtk_accel_path
   "/GncPluginPageRegisterActions/DeleteTransactionAction" " ")
   in the accelerator-map file to (gtk_accel_path
   "/GncPluginPageRegisterActions/DeleteTransactionAction"
   "Delete") (without the ; in the beginning of the line and by
   adding Deleter). This was meant make control – delete  delete
   an entry. I did this but it didn’t work. Do you what I could be doing
   wrong.

   Thanks a lot and have a great day

   Shevach

   Sent from [1]Mail for Windows

References

   1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[john]

> On Aug 16, 2022, at 8:18 PM, list+gnuc...@jdlh.com wrote:
> 
> On 2022-08-16 19:54, john wrote:
> 
>> OTOH I'm pretty sure that gnc_commodity is fully exposed to the Python 
>> bindings so you should
>> be able to write a python script using them to do the same thing without 
>> voiding your warranty
>> or needing to unzip the file or, for that matter, caring which backend is 
>> used.
> 
> Ah! Thank you for this nudge, John. I like using Python. Doing my import via 
> Python would likely be very comfortable for me.
> 
> This question may end up leading me to learn not just how to automate my mac 
> UI, but also how to use the Python bindings in GnuCash.
> 
> I have been using the macOS GnuCash app downloaded via GnuCash.org, which I 
> understand does not include Python bindings. However, I use MacPorts all the 
> time, and it looks like MacPorts will be happy to provide me GnuCash with the 
> Python bindings enabled.
> 
> I appreciate the pointer. (Well, not pointer exactly, because it is Python 
> after all, but… reference?)
> 

Jim,

It's python wrapped around C, so you may well bump into pointers. ;-)

I don't include the python bindings in the macOS app bundle because every 
release of macOS has a different version of Python, and the bindings have to be 
linked against the same libpython as the interpreter. MacPorts custom builds 
everything on your machine so it's easier.

If you wanted you could also build GnuCash the way I do and include the python 
bindings. The instructions are at https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/MacOS/Quartz.

You didn't mention Homebrew, but I'm going to as a warning to others who might 
read this thread later: Homebrew's GnuCash is just a cask with my macOS bundle 
in it. It doesn't use any of the Homebrew infrastructure and so can't use the 
python bindings.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Fred Bone]

On 16 August 2022 at 17:11, Robert Simmons said:

> > running the *.gnucash through gunzip, add in the text, and run it back
> through gzip
> 
> As a connoisseur of bad ideas for adding data to GnuCash myself, I have to
> point out that one should use a programming language that has a library
> with support for the structured data format that one wants to add to. You
> use the parser provided by the language to generate objects in that
> language. You then perform operations on those objects. Finally, you use
> the library function to emit well formatted structured data.

Not so much fun, though, as trying to unscramble the results of manual 
tweaking.


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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[list+gnucash]

On 2022-08-16 19:54, john wrote:


OTOH I'm pretty sure that gnc_commodity is fully exposed to the Python bindings 
so you should
be able to write a python script using them to do the same thing without 
voiding your warranty
or needing to unzip the file or, for that matter, caring which backend is used.


Ah! Thank you for this nudge, John. I like using Python. Doing my import 
via Python would likely be very comfortable for me.


This question may end up leading me to learn not just how to automate my 
mac UI, but also how to use the Python bindings in GnuCash.


I have been using the macOS GnuCash app downloaded via GnuCash.org, 
which I understand does not include Python bindings. However, I use 
MacPorts all the time, and it looks like MacPorts will be happy to 
provide me GnuCash with the Python bindings enabled.


I appreciate the pointer. (Well, not pointer exactly, because it is 
Python after all, but… reference?)


 —Jim DeLaHunt

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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[john]

> On Aug 16, 2022, at 2:11 PM, Robert Simmons  wrote:
> 
>> running the *.gnucash through gunzip, add in the text, and run it back
> through gzip
> 
> As a connoisseur of bad ideas for adding data to GnuCash myself, I have to
> point out that one should use a programming language that has a library
> with support for the structured data format that one wants to add to. You
> use the parser provided by the language to generate objects in that
> language. You then perform operations on those objects. Finally, you use
> the library function to emit well formatted structured data.

Not that I would suggest altering your GnuCash data outside of the GnuCash 
library...

Gnome's libxml2 XML library is reasonably comprehensive, widely supported with 
bindings, and 
one heck of a lot less weighty than the Apache equivalent.

You also don't need to re-gzip the file. As long as you don't break anything 
GnuCash doesn't care
whether it's gzipped or not.

OTOH I'm pretty sure that gnc_commodity is fully exposed to the Python bindings 
so you should 
be able to write a python script using them to do the same thing without 
voiding your warranty
or needing to unzip the file or, for that matter, caring which backend is used.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Adrien Monteleone]

Indeed, my apologies David. I got lost in the thread, which it seems has 
now broken again (2 new messages I see are threaded separately as a new 
topic) and one reply from Chris Good concerning OFX import having the 
auto-creation option somehow ended up in a thread "Due Invoices Reminder 
form"! So please accept my apologies for the noise.


I'm not sure why threads get broken, though I suspect that is a digest 
thing. It may not even look that way to everyone. It could be 
Thunderbird (my reader of choice using Gmane) could be the culprit. 
(though Mail.app on my Mac did the same)


To the topic, it seems OFX *might* or should be able to autocreate 
missing securities, but Jim noticed there were problems. (and his file 
is CSV anyway)


I think there is some agreement here, that it would be really, really 
nice if both importers could offer and properly create new securities 
when importing transactions from a broker and such.


That is an interesting approach you offer. And I agree, after that much 
work, it just might be saner to add them manually. If the # of 
securities were really high, then maybe it would be worth the outside 
effort.


Regards,
Adrien

On 8/16/22 1:48 PM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:

Adrien,

It has been complicated, I agree. However, this thread originated with 
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2022-August/102395.html 
written by Jim. Flywire has added a number of good comments related 
generally to importing investment transactions on the thread, but is 
misunderstanding Jim's specific problem regarding mitigating the burden 
of creating a large number of securities in the securities database.


I will admit, as I re-read Jim's original post, he buried the primary 
problem midway through the second paragraph, making it easy to think his 
problem had mostly to do with importing investment transactions. 
However, a closer reading of the post, along with his explanations later 
in the thread, make it clear that his primary problem is the creation of 
130 entries in the Securities database.


Your final comment summarizes the conundrum.

If I were in that situation, I'd might go the latter route, fraught with 
danger though it is.


NOTE: THE FOLLOWING STEPS ARE NOT RECOMMENDED BECAUSE YOU RUN THE RISK 
OF RUINING YOUR DATA FILE ENTIRELY. MY WORDS HERE ARE MEANT ONLY AS A 
SPECULATIVE SET OF OPERATIONS WITH RISKS THAT NO SANE ACCOUNTANT WOULD 
ACCEPT. DON'T DO THIS. I KNOW I WOULDN'T!


First, I'd create a new GC test file (test.gnucash) and add one account 
and one security to it (the account is necessary to force GnuCash to 
save the commodity entry, apparently) and save the file. Then I'd save 
it as an SQLite3 file. Then, I'd use an online GUID generator (e.g., 
https://www.uuidgenerator.net/guid) to create a bunch of GUIDs for my 
new securities records. Next, I'd merge the GUIDs with the list of 
commodities into a single list (containing: GUID, namespace, mnemonic, 
fullname, fraction, quote_flag, quote_source), open test.gnucash in a 
database app and insert the entries into the Commodities table. Then I'd 
save the whole content to XML and paste the commodities content into a 
***copy*** of my real data file (I don't know whether you need to fix 
, but I imagine you would). Then I'd 
open the new Frankenstein file and confirm that the new commodities are 
there and add a transaction or two to verify that it was functional. 
Having confirmed all this, I'd begin importing actual transactions.


Of course, I might just find all this unsupported hacking too stressful 
and just bite the bullet and enter things through the UI.



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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[list+gnucash]

Chris:

On 2022-08-16 02:36, Chris Good wrote:
…There is code in the ofx import to handle creating securities which 
is done before an investment transaction if the security (commodity) 
does not exist and Preference, Import, "Automatically create new 
commodities" is ticked.
I have never used it but maybe some-one else can supply an example ofx 
file. 


Thank you for pointing out this preferences option, and this OFX import 
code.  I was not aware of either.


I just checked with a test book. With Preferences -- Import -- 
"Automatically create new commodities" checked, I performed an input of 
an Accounts CSV file which referred to a novel security. The CSV 
importer rejected it with an error message about the missing commodity.


CSV import is not the same as OFX import, of course. I don't have the 
information to quickly create an OFX test case.


And I have not tried CSV import of a transaction. It might be that 
transaction import has some code to create new commodities which account 
import is lacking.



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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Robert Simmons]

> running the *.gnucash through gunzip, add in the text, and run it back
through gzip

As a connoisseur of bad ideas for adding data to GnuCash myself, I have to
point out that one should use a programming language that has a library
with support for the structured data format that one wants to add to. You
use the parser provided by the language to generate objects in that
language. You then perform operations on those objects. Finally, you use
the library function to emit well formatted structured data.
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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[David G. Pickett via gnucash-user]

As xml is text, and xml storage is used in my gnucash, one might add securities 
by running the *.gnucash through gunzip, add in the text, and run it back 
through gzip, unless there is a nasty checksum in there somewhere?  Keep a copy 
of the original!

I pulled this from my file using shell tools, first for SPY SPY SPY 1000 in 
namespace AMEX with quotes from yahoo_json.  id is Symbol, name is Name, value 
is Display Symbol.  I don't use ISIN or TimeZone, but you can make a test 
security and look in the file if you want these fields:
gunzip   AMEX  
SPY  SPY  
1000    
yahoo_json    
          user_symbol      SPY       . . 
.  FUND  
31617E620  FID GROWTH CO POOL CL 
3  1000        
    user_symbol      FGCP       . . 
. .
A csv import would be nice, though!
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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Adrien,

It has been complicated, I agree. However, this thread originated with 
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2022-August/102395.html 
written by Jim. Flywire has added a number of good comments related 
generally to importing investment transactions on the thread, but is 
misunderstanding Jim's specific problem regarding mitigating the burden 
of creating a large number of securities in the securities database.


I will admit, as I re-read Jim's original post, he buried the primary 
problem midway through the second paragraph, making it easy to think his 
problem had mostly to do with importing investment transactions. 
However, a closer reading of the post, along with his explanations later 
in the thread, make it clear that his primary problem is the creation of 
130 entries in the Securities database.


Your final comment summarizes the conundrum.

If I were in that situation, I'd might go the latter route, fraught with 
danger though it is.


NOTE: THE FOLLOWING STEPS ARE NOT RECOMMENDED BECAUSE YOU RUN THE RISK 
OF RUINING YOUR DATA FILE ENTIRELY. MY WORDS HERE ARE MEANT ONLY AS A 
SPECULATIVE SET OF OPERATIONS WITH RISKS THAT NO SANE ACCOUNTANT WOULD 
ACCEPT. DON'T DO THIS. I KNOW I WOULDN'T!


First, I'd create a new GC test file (test.gnucash) and add one account 
and one security to it (the account is necessary to force GnuCash to 
save the commodity entry, apparently) and save the file. Then I'd save 
it as an SQLite3 file. Then, I'd use an online GUID generator (e.g., 
https://www.uuidgenerator.net/guid) to create a bunch of GUIDs for my 
new securities records. Next, I'd merge the GUIDs with the list of 
commodities into a single list (containing: GUID, namespace, mnemonic, 
fullname, fraction, quote_flag, quote_source), open test.gnucash in a 
database app and insert the entries into the Commodities table. Then I'd 
save the whole content to XML and paste the commodities content into a 
***copy*** of my real data file (I don't know whether you need to fix 
, but I imagine you would). Then I'd 
open the new Frankenstein file and confirm that the new commodities are 
there and add a transaction or two to verify that it was functional. 
Having confirmed all this, I'd begin importing actual transactions.


Of course, I might just find all this unsupported hacking too stressful 
and just bite the bullet and enter things through the UI.



Cheers,

David T.

On 8/16/2022 6:18 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

David,

This thread keeps breaking, but unless I've lost track as a result, I 
thought this was flywire's thread from the start. (who also has 
several other related threads dealing with specific aspects of the 
task at hand.)


The goal was to import transactions for, and as a result, mass create 
130+ securities, but then discovered that importing their transactions 
does not create or offer the option of creating them (like an account).


Since there is no import option otherwise, the only choices left are 
to create them manually, or take the risk of editing the data file 
directly.


Regards,
Adrien

On 8/16/22 2:52 AM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:

flywire,

You're crossing up threads here. Jim specifically needs to create 
Security entries in his GnuCash file (and has stated this on several 
occasions) so that he can add transactions for those securities 
later. Your advice regarding adding commodity transactions using csv 
import tools is besides his point and off his topic.


It would be preferable for you to add your comments to a new thread, 
so that others can focus on Jim's problem here while more directly 
helping you address the issues that you have encountered on a 
separate thread.



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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Adrien Monteleone]

David,

This thread keeps breaking, but unless I've lost track as a result, I 
thought this was flywire's thread from the start. (who also has several 
other related threads dealing with specific aspects of the task at hand.)


The goal was to import transactions for, and as a result, mass create 
130+ securities, but then discovered that importing their transactions 
does not create or offer the option of creating them (like an account).


Since there is no import option otherwise, the only choices left are to 
create them manually, or take the risk of editing the data file directly.


Regards,
Adrien

On 8/16/22 2:52 AM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:

flywire,

You're crossing up threads here. Jim specifically needs to create 
Security entries in his GnuCash file (and has stated this on several 
occasions) so that he can add transactions for those securities later. 
Your advice regarding adding commodity transactions using csv import 
tools is besides his point and off his topic.


It would be preferable for you to add your comments to a new thread, so 
that others can focus on Jim's problem here while more directly helping 
you address the issues that you have encountered on a separate thread.



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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Actually, it was clear to me. Jim's point was that if you do these steps 130 
times in a row, your brain will explode. Certainly it would be nice to be able 
to import them.

On Aug 16, 2022, 14:05, at 14:05, flywire  wrote:
>Obviously it wasn't clear that the post copied below identifies the
>keystroke operations from opening GnuCash through the Security Editor
>with
>*** as user input. The Import accounts was an aside comment. (Thanks
>David
>for start the account tree comments.) Interestingly New security is one
>of
>the few GnuCash forms specifically requiring a name, yet many people
>wouldn't recognise the name of a share but would recognise the security
>code.
>
>The bleeding obvious is, "Why can't securities be imported by csv"? OFX
>is
>a good suggestion. It generally seems much more automated than csv so
>it
>would be worth investigating..
>
>https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v4/C/gnucash-guide/appendixa_xmlconvert1.html
>> An enterprising individual could go so far as to write a stylesheet
>to
>transform the *GnuCash* data file to an *Apache
>OpenOffice*/*LibreOffice* Calc
>(or vice-versa, for that matter).
>
>Does it follow it could be written directly into an existing file?
>(Note
>the guid issue
>https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2022-August/102422.html
>). The
>two examples only output data from GnuCash.
>
>btw A lot (the majority?) of
>https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Published_tools
>are so old they won't work.
>
>
>https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2022-August/102438.html
>
>> Once share securities are created the share accounts can be created
>with
>> File, Import, Import accounts from CSV.
>>
>> File, New
>> Cancel
>>
>> Tools, Security Editor
>>
>> Securities: Add
>> New security
>> Full Name: ***
>> Symbol: ***
>> Type: *** - Sticky
>> Fraction Traded: ***
>> OK
>>
>> File, Import, Import Accounts from CSV
>> Next, DemoAccountTree.csv Next, Apply, Apply, Close
>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Frank H. Ellenberger]

Hi,

Am 16.08.22 um 13:03 schrieb flywire:

btw A lot (the majority?) ofhttps://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Published_tools
are so old they won't work.


as it is a wiki you can just update it.

The page would probably also deserve more links from other pages so that 
it is easier found.


Regards
Frank
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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[flywire]

Obviously it wasn't clear that the post copied below identifies the
keystroke operations from opening GnuCash through the Security Editor with
*** as user input. The Import accounts was an aside comment. (Thanks David
for start the account tree comments.) Interestingly New security is one of
the few GnuCash forms specifically requiring a name, yet many people
wouldn't recognise the name of a share but would recognise the security
code.

The bleeding obvious is, "Why can't securities be imported by csv"? OFX is
a good suggestion. It generally seems much more automated than csv so it
would be worth investigating..

https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v4/C/gnucash-guide/appendixa_xmlconvert1.html
> An enterprising individual could go so far as to write a stylesheet to
transform the *GnuCash* data file to an *Apache OpenOffice*/*LibreOffice* Calc
(or vice-versa, for that matter).

Does it follow it could be written directly into an existing file? (Note
the guid issue
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2022-August/102422.html ). The
two examples only output data from GnuCash.

btw A lot (the majority?) of https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Published_tools
are so old they won't work.


https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2022-August/102438.html

> Once share securities are created the share accounts can be created with
> File, Import, Import accounts from CSV.
>
> File, New
> Cancel
>
> Tools, Security Editor
>
> Securities: Add
> New security
> Full Name: ***
> Symbol: ***
> Type: *** - Sticky
> Fraction Traded: ***
> OK
>
> File, Import, Import Accounts from CSV
> Next, DemoAccountTree.csv Next, Apply, Apply, Close
>
>>
Type,Full Account Name,Account Name,Account Code,Description,Account Colour,Notes,Symbol,Namespace,Hidden,Tax Info,Placeholder
ASSET,Assets,Assets,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,T
BANK,Assets:Broker,Broker,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,F
ASSET,Assets:Broker:Shares,Shares,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,F
STOCK,Assets:Broker:Shares:ALL,ALL,ALL,ASX,F,F,F
STOCK,Assets:Broker:Shares:CBA,CBA,CBA,ASX,F,F,F
STOCK,Assets:Broker:Shares:NCM,NCM,NCM,ASX,F,F,F
STOCK,Assets:Broker:Shares:REA,REA,REA,ASX,F,F,F
STOCK,Assets:Broker:Shares:RIO,RIO,RIO,ASX,F,F,F
STOCK,Assets:Broker:Shares:WOW,WOW,WOW,ASX,F,F,F
STOCK,Assets:Broker:Shares:WPL,WPL,WPL,ASX,F,F,F
BANK,Assets:Broker:Funds,Funds,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,F
INCOME,Income,Income,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,T
INCOME,Income:Capital Gain,Capital Gain,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,F
INCOME,Income:Capital Gain:Short-term,Short-term,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,F
INCOME,Income:Shares,Shares,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,F
INCOME,Income:Shares:Dividend,Dividend,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,F
INCOME,Income:Shares:Franking,Franking,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,F
EXPENSE,Expenses,Expenses,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,T
EXPENSE,Expenses:Brokerage,Brokerage,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,F
EQUITY,Equity,Equity,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,F
EQUITY,Equity:Opening Balance,Opening Balance,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,F
BANK,Bank,Bank,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,F
BANK,Bank:Savings,Savings,AUD,CURRENCY,F,F,F
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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Chris Good]

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2022 19:19:44 -0700
From: Jim DeLaHunt 
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?
Message-ID: <137f3e3b-148f-feb2-9950-d7fcb32f6...@jdlh.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Kalpesh:

Thank you for the advice.

 > ?see if your broker provides transactions in OFX format instead of CSV.

But remember, I am trying to import Securities, not transactions. I am
trying to automate what is done manually in Tools -- Security Editor, and
pressing the Add button.

Best regards,
  ?Jim DeLaHunt

On 2022-08-14 17:34, Kalpesh Patel wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Not sure if anyone has mentioned or not but see if your broker 
> provides transactions in OFX format instead of CSV. With CSV I imagine 
> that you will have to perform some pre-processing before importing into
GNC.
>
> You will have much better success in minimizing import clicks and 
> errors with importation.

Hi Jim,

Just to hopefully add a little to what Kalpesh said...

There is code in the ofx import to handle creating securities which is done
before an investment transaction
if the security (commodity) does not exist and Preference, Import,
"Automatically create new commodities" is ticked.
I have never used it but maybe some-one else can supply an example ofx file.

I lean towards using a key stroke scripter but I just want to make you aware
of this possibility.

I've had a quick look at the code and it seems to me it may ask you for some
extra info (that is not supplied by the ofx file)
and you may well end up having to later correct or supplement the security
details anyway.

The ofx spec can be downloaded from
https://financialdataexchange.org/FDX/About/OFX-Work-Group.aspx after
clicking on "The Spec"
at the top of the page. All my ofx files are version 1.0.2.

Regards, Chris Good

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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Jim,

As you continue down this project, consider how you want to handle 
various aspects of accounting for stocks and mutual funds--particularly, 
how you want to manage tax-related transactions, such as dividend 
income, capital gains income, etc. With that many commodities, you will 
want to get your thoughts in order before you begin the import/create 
process.


For example, you may wish to track dividends and gains by individual 
commodity, which may be easier to manage with separate income accounts. 
Or, you may opt to track your income by brokerage account and tax status 
(I use this method). Or you may not want that detail at all. The 
decision is yours, but it is easier to get it right first, rather than 
have to alter the transactions and account structure after the fact. 
(Note that with GnuCash, you *can* change any and all such structures 
after the fact; it's just less convenient.)


For clarity, my method is to use per-brokerage aggregated income accounts:

Income
- Dividends
- - Taxable Dividends
- - - Brokerage Acct A
- - - Brokerage Acct B
- - NonTaxable Dividends
- - - Brokerage Acct C
- - - Brokerage Acct D

With capital gains, I additionally have separate income accounts for 
short term and long term gains, since they need to be tracked separately 
in my tax realm.


Another thing to consider: how do you want transaction descriptions to 
appear in your books? Many exported transactions use generic 
descriptions("Dividend", "Realized Gain/Loss", etc.). You may decide 
that it is worth modifying the incoming data to be more descriptive (for 
example, "AAPL Dividend"), so that the information in your books is 
sensible to you.


Best,

David T.

On 8/15/2022 8:07 PM, Jim DeLaHunt wrote:

On 2022-08-15 06:54, flywire wrote:


Once share securities are created the share accounts can be created with
File, Import, Import accounts from CSV.


True. But the topic of the thread is, how to bulk create the share 
securities themselves.




File, New
Cancel

Tools, Security Editor

Securities: Add
New security
Full Name: ***
Symbol: ***
Type: *** - Sticky
Fraction Traded: ***
OK

File, Import, Import Accounts from CSV
Next, DemoAccountTree.csv Next, Apply, Apply, Close

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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[David T. via gnucash-user]

flywire,

You're crossing up threads here. Jim specifically needs to create 
Security entries in his GnuCash file (and has stated this on several 
occasions) so that he can add transactions for those securities later. 
Your advice regarding adding commodity transactions using csv import 
tools is besides his point and off his topic.


It would be preferable for you to add your comments to a new thread, so 
that others can focus on Jim's problem here while more directly helping 
you address the issues that you have encountered on a separate thread.


David T.

On 8/16/2022 6:13 AM, flywire wrote:

I haven't used GnuCash securities before the last week and I'm still not
clear about them. I understood importing security entries were
transactions. Further to my last post with minimal security information the
fraction traded is not required.

I hadn't realised importing transactions with securities was failing
because the securities hadn't been created. Anyway, that's done now.

File, Import, Transactions from CSV
Next, PP-Demo_Transactions.csv, Next
Multi-split, DateFormat, Leading Lines to Skip 1,
  Date, Description, Action, Account, Deposit, Price
Next
Map Account ID to Account Name, Next, Next

In contrast to importing accounts from csv, which runs nicely, the header
line is not recognised. The mapping process is still a meaningless chore
that would be worth automating.

Unfortunately, it fails on security capital gains as shown in the
screenshot, so the imbalance has to be manually moved back to the security.
With that, the portfolio is fully loaded.

[image: image.png]


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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Geoff's suggestion (to use an external automation tool) would best be 
placed on the Using Gnucash page 
(https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Using_GnuCash) that Adrien suggested.


Flywire suggested Piecash, which is already listed on the Published 
tools page.


On 8/16/2022 12:05 AM, Frank H. Ellenberger wrote:


Am 14.08.22 um 18:33 schrieb Adrien Monteleone:

Check the 'Using GnuCash' page perhaps.


And for tools https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Published_tools

Regards
Frank


Regards,
Adrien

On 8/14/22 9:50 AM, Tom Browder wrote:

P.S. Is there a spot on the Wiki to list things like Geoff's 
suggestion and

flycatcher's program? If not, I will be glad to start one--suggestions
welcomed.


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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[flywire]

I haven't used GnuCash securities before the last week and I'm still not
clear about them. I understood importing security entries were
transactions. Further to my last post with minimal security information the
fraction traded is not required.

I hadn't realised importing transactions with securities was failing
because the securities hadn't been created. Anyway, that's done now.

File, Import, Transactions from CSV
Next, PP-Demo_Transactions.csv, Next
Multi-split, DateFormat, Leading Lines to Skip 1,
 Date, Description, Action, Account, Deposit, Price
Next
Map Account ID to Account Name, Next, Next

In contrast to importing accounts from csv, which runs nicely, the header
line is not recognised. The mapping process is still a meaningless chore
that would be worth automating.

Unfortunately, it fails on security capital gains as shown in the
screenshot, so the imbalance has to be manually moved back to the security.
With that, the portfolio is fully loaded.

[image: image.png]

>
Date,Transaction ID,Number,Description,Notes,Commodity/Currency,Void Reason,Action,Memo,Full Account Name,Account Name,Amount With Sym,Amount Num.,Reconcile,Reconcile Date,Rate/Price
01/01/2021,32cef65624eb47adba63ef6b53682065CURRENCY::AUDAssets:Broker:Funds,Funds,"$60,000.00","60,000.00",n,,1.
,Equity:Opening Balance,Opening Balance,"-$60,000.00","-60,000.00",n,,1.
04/01/2021,6cfb8f0c8ef14881bc649b7eb3a17276,,REA,,CURRENCY::AUDAssets:Broker:Funds,Funds,"-$9,880.86","-9,880.86",n,,1.
,,,Buy,,Assets:Broker:Shares:REA,REA,64 REA,64,n,,154.3884375
01/02/2021,ef1c5517ace64c328d24cc3aff7726f4,,RIO,,CURRENCY::AUDAssets:Broker:Funds,Funds,"-$9,912.53","-9,912.53",n,,1.
,,,Buy,,Assets:Broker:Shares:RIO,RIO,89 RIO,89,n,,111 + 3353/8900
01/03/2021,bea7a4ce794a420abc41955796f30a59,,WPL,,CURRENCY::AUDAssets:Broker:Funds,Funds,"-$9,998.02","-9,998.02",n,,1.
,,,Buy,,Assets:Broker:Shares:WPL,WPL,397 WPL,397,n,,25 + 3651/19850
29/03/2021,9713115f950649428012298f621fbdf8,,WOW,,CURRENCY::AUDAssets:Broker:Funds,Funds,"-$9,998.18","-9,998.18",n,,1.
,,,Buy,,Assets:Broker:Shares:WOW,WOW,247 WOW,247,n,,40 + 311/650
26/04/2021,06a40a3f22dd48ae8476bae18bbe9d90,,CBA,,CURRENCY::AUDAssets:Broker:Funds,Funds,"-$9,983.10","-9,983.10",n,,1.
,,,Buy,,Assets:Broker:Shares:CBA,CBA,112 CBA,112,n,,89 + 151/1120
24/05/2021,32dd7acb7738403eaafc84b7aadc1032,,WPL,,CURRENCY::AUDAssets:Broker:Funds,Funds,"$8,695.86","8,695.86",n,,1.
,Income:Capital Gain:Short-term,Short-term,"$1,302.16","1,302.16",n,,1.
,,,Sell,,Assets:Broker:Shares:WPL,WPL,397- WPL,-397,n,,21 + 17943/19850
,Assets:Broker:Shares:WPL,WPL,0 WPL,0,n,,0.00
24/05/2021,f2c8d2a8358d49929b851f28744ede48,,All,,CURRENCY::AUDAssets:Broker:Funds,Funds,"-$18,690.80","-18,690.80",n,,1.
,,,Buy,,Assets:Broker:Shares:ALL,ALL,459 ALL,459,n,,40 + 1654/2295
21/06/2021,7abcaaac39fb4e1189c1f5ed63394c15,,NCM,,CURRENCY::AUDAssets:Broker:Funds,Funds,"-$9,986.65","-9,986.65",n,,1.
,,,Buy,,Assets:Broker:Shares:NCM,NCM,383 NCM,383,n,,26 + 573/7660
23/03/2021,82b79d9570b64d84a9e39de489d768b7,,REA,,CURRENCY::AUDBank:Savings,Savings,$53.95,53.95,n,,1.
,Income:Shares:Franking,Franking,-$16.19,-16.19,n,,1.
,Income:Shares:Dividend,Dividend,-$37.76,-37.76,n,,1.
15/04/2021,f98132fd491249c9a4e97bb6d8965a4f,,RIO,,CURRENCY::AUDBank:Savings,Savings,$657.47,657.47,n,,1.
,Income:Shares:Dividend,Dividend,-$460.23,-460.23,n,,1.
,Income:Shares:Franking,Franking,-$197.24,-197.24,n,,1.
02/07/2021,697b27119ac54df38ca55fda389c1335,,ALL,,CURRENCY::AUDBank:Savings,Savings,$98.36,98.36,n,,1.
,Income:Shares:Dividend,Dividend,-$68.85,-68.85,n,,1.
,Income:Shares:Franking,Franking,-$29.51,-29.51,n,,1.
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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Frank H. Ellenberger]

Am 14.08.22 um 18:33 schrieb Adrien Monteleone:

Check the 'Using GnuCash' page perhaps.


And for tools https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Published_tools

Regards
Frank


Regards,
Adrien

On 8/14/22 9:50 AM, Tom Browder wrote:

P.S. Is there a spot on the Wiki to list things like Geoff's 
suggestion and

flycatcher's program? If not, I will be glad to start one--suggestions
welcomed.


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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Jim DeLaHunt]

On 2022-08-15 06:54, flywire wrote:


Once share securities are created the share accounts can be created with
File, Import, Import accounts from CSV.


True. But the topic of the thread is, how to bulk create the share 
securities themselves.




File, New
Cancel

Tools, Security Editor

Securities: Add
New security
Full Name: ***
Symbol: ***
Type: *** - Sticky
Fraction Traded: ***
OK

File, Import, Import Accounts from CSV
Next, DemoAccountTree.csv Next, Apply, Apply, Close

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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[flywire]

Once share securities are created the share accounts can be created with
File, Import, Import accounts from CSV.

File, New
Cancel

Tools, Security Editor

Securities: Add
New security
Full Name: ***
Symbol: ***
Type: *** - Sticky
Fraction Traded: ***
OK

File, Import, Import Accounts from CSV
Next, DemoAccountTree.csv Next, Apply, Apply, Close

>
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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Jim DeLaHunt]

Kalpesh:

Thank you for the advice.

> …see if your broker provides transactions in OFX format instead of CSV.

But remember, I am trying to import Securities, not transactions. I am 
trying to automate what is done manually in Tools -- Security Editor, 
and pressing the Add button.


Best regards,
 —Jim DeLaHunt

On 2022-08-14 17:34, Kalpesh Patel wrote:

Jim,

  


Not sure if anyone has mentioned or not but see if your broker provides
transactions in OFX format instead of CSV. With CSV I imagine that you will
have to perform some pre-processing before importing into GNC.

  


You will have much better success in minimizing import clicks and errors
with importation.

  

  


--

  


Message: 8

Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2022 18:28:22 -0700

From: Jim DeLaHunt mailto:list+gnuc...@jdlh.com> >

To: Gnucash Users mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> >

Subject: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

Message-ID: mailto:c70b6819-fef8-511e-28ac-350b49e3b...@jdlh.com> >

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

  


Hello, folks:

  


I am a long-time GnuCash user, and for all those years I have pretty

much not attempted to track my investments in GnuCash. But now I want to

start.? My first goal is to import many years of past activity.

  


I have downloaded the transactions from my brokerage account as a CSV

file. The first thing I get out of this is the name and symbol of about

130 securities. I am wondering if there is a practical way to bulk

import these into GnuCash. That is, instead of visiting Tools --

Security Editor, and pressing the Add button 130 times, and filling out

the "New security" dialogue 130 times, is there a more efficient path?

  


Looking at the File? Import menu, I do not see an option to import

Securities. Looking at the documentation, wiki, and list archives, I

don't see a mention of this. Is there some bulk import mechanism I am

overlooking?

  


I took a look at the uncompressed XML contents of a new, simple .gnucash

book file. It appears that the data entered in the "New security"

dialogue gets stored as  entities. There appears to be a

pretty simple relationship between the fields of the dialogue and the

text within the  entity. The entities are stored in a

certain order, sorted by  then . There is a

 entity which seems to contain a

text count of the non-CURRENCY gnc:commodity entries.

  


This makes me wonder if I could transform my list of 130 security names

and symbols into  entities, and insert them into the

GnuCash XML of my book.

  


Are there complexities or pitfalls about this approach which I might be

overlooking?? We can certainly stipulate that manipulating the XML

content directly is unsupported and risky, I must be careful and keep

backups, I might blow off my fingers, etc.? For what it's worth, I

believe that I am pretty proficient with editing XML, processing CSV

files, and scripting manipulations of text data.

  


Once I have the securities added to the book, I then need to add the

appropriate child accounts to my brokerage accounts, each denominated in

the appropriate security type and symbol. It looks like that is

straightforward to do with a CSV of accounts in the correct format, and

the File? Import?? Import Accounts from CSV? menu item. I have a few

child accounts which I entered from the UI which will serve as

examples.? Is there any way in which this is more difficult than it looks?

  


Cheers,

 ?Jim "ADBE ALNIX AOL ? VUG VWO ZTD81" DeLaHunt

  

  

  


--

  


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[GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Kalpesh Patel]

Jim,

 

Not sure if anyone has mentioned or not but see if your broker provides
transactions in OFX format instead of CSV. With CSV I imagine that you will
have to perform some pre-processing before importing into GNC.

 

You will have much better success in minimizing import clicks and errors
with importation.

 

 

--

 

Message: 8

Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2022 18:28:22 -0700

From: Jim DeLaHunt mailto:list+gnuc...@jdlh.com> >

To: Gnucash Users mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> >

Subject: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

Message-ID: mailto:c70b6819-fef8-511e-28ac-350b49e3b...@jdlh.com> >

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

 

Hello, folks:

 

I am a long-time GnuCash user, and for all those years I have pretty 

much not attempted to track my investments in GnuCash. But now I want to 

start.? My first goal is to import many years of past activity.

 

I have downloaded the transactions from my brokerage account as a CSV 

file. The first thing I get out of this is the name and symbol of about 

130 securities. I am wondering if there is a practical way to bulk 

import these into GnuCash. That is, instead of visiting Tools -- 

Security Editor, and pressing the Add button 130 times, and filling out 

the "New security" dialogue 130 times, is there a more efficient path?

 

Looking at the File? Import menu, I do not see an option to import 

Securities. Looking at the documentation, wiki, and list archives, I 

don't see a mention of this. Is there some bulk import mechanism I am 

overlooking?

 

I took a look at the uncompressed XML contents of a new, simple .gnucash 

book file. It appears that the data entered in the "New security" 

dialogue gets stored as  entities. There appears to be a 

pretty simple relationship between the fields of the dialogue and the 

text within the  entity. The entities are stored in a 

certain order, sorted by  then . There is a 

 entity which seems to contain a 

text count of the non-CURRENCY gnc:commodity entries.

 

This makes me wonder if I could transform my list of 130 security names 

and symbols into  entities, and insert them into the 

GnuCash XML of my book.

 

Are there complexities or pitfalls about this approach which I might be 

overlooking?? We can certainly stipulate that manipulating the XML 

content directly is unsupported and risky, I must be careful and keep 

backups, I might blow off my fingers, etc.? For what it's worth, I 

believe that I am pretty proficient with editing XML, processing CSV 

files, and scripting manipulations of text data.

 

Once I have the securities added to the book, I then need to add the 

appropriate child accounts to my brokerage accounts, each denominated in 

the appropriate security type and symbol. It looks like that is 

straightforward to do with a CSV of accounts in the correct format, and 

the File? Import?? Import Accounts from CSV? menu item. I have a few 

child accounts which I entered from the UI which will serve as 

examples.? Is there any way in which this is more difficult than it looks?

 

Cheers,

 ?Jim "ADBE ALNIX AOL ? VUG VWO ZTD81" DeLaHunt

 

 

 

--

 

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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Robert Simmons]

The program you want to use that is the macOS equivalent of what the other
reply suggested is called "Automator". As long as you have not moved it, it
is located in "Launchpad > Other > Automator" or "Applications > Automator".

Also, this is just a general suggestion about XML manipulation (or
manipulation of any structured data for that matter): don't edit it
directly with a text editor even if you're confident you know what you're
doing. Humans will always make mistakes. Use a library in the language of
your choosing to parse the data into objects in that language. Then
manipulate the objects. When you're done, all libraries have functionality
to emit well formed structured data back from the modified objects. For
XML, I use Python's xml.etree.ElementTree, but the concept that I'm
referring to is language agnostic. Pick whatever language you feel
comfortable with.
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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Jim DeLaHunt]

Geoff:

On 2022-08-13 22:38, Geoff wrote:

Hi Jim

I don't have any experience manipulating GnuCash XML files, but in 
principle what you want to do should work, although it does void your 
GnuCash warranty.


However, if you are going to all this effort you may find it more 
worthwhile to invest your time in learning how to use a general 
purpose automation tool.  This approach has two advantages over data 
manipulation:
(1) Automation drives the GnuCash GUI and thus protects you from 
accidental data corruption.
(2) You will be able to use your new automation skills to automate any 
subsequent GnuCash tasks, for example loading historical transactions 
to your 130 securities.


Thank you for this suggestion!

I think about XML files more often than I script application GUIs, so I 
did not even consider this approach.


I am on macOS. Apple has a built-in scripting system, with a language 
"AppleScript", which can perform GUI actions[1]. There is also a bridge 
to the Python language via the "PyAutoGUI" module[2].


I will give those a look. Maybe it will not just help me get my 130 
securities entered, it will also give me a reusable approach.


[1] 
<https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/LanguagesUtilities/Conceptual/MacAutomationScriptingGuide/AutomatetheUserInterface.html>

[2] <https://pypi.org/project/PyAutoGUI/>

Best regards,
 —Jim DeLaHunt



For Windows, check out:
AutoHotKey https://www.autohotkey.com/
or:
Power Automate Desktop https://powerautomate.microsoft.com/en-us/desktop/

I can't recommend anything for Linux, but Google is your friend:
https://alternativeto.net/software/autohotkey/?platform=linux

Hope this helps.

Regards

Geoff
=

On 14/08/2022 11:28 am, Jim DeLaHunt wrote:

Hello, folks:

I am a long-time GnuCash user, and for all those years I have pretty 
much not attempted to track my investments in GnuCash. But now I want 
to start.  My first goal is to import many years of past activity.


I have downloaded the transactions from my brokerage account as a CSV 
file. The first thing I get out of this is the name and symbol of 
about 130 securities. I am wondering if there is a practical way to 
bulk import these into GnuCash. That is, instead of visiting Tools -- 
Security Editor, and pressing the Add button 130 times, and filling 
out the "New security" dialogue 130 times, is there a more efficient 
path?


Looking at the File… Import menu, I do not see an option to import 
Securities. Looking at the documentation, wiki, and list archives, I 
don't see a mention of this. Is there some bulk import mechanism I am 
overlooking?


I took a look at the uncompressed XML contents of a new, simple 
.gnucash book file. It appears that the data entered in the "New 
security" dialogue gets stored as  entities. There 
appears to be a pretty simple relationship between the fields of the 
dialogue and the text within the  entity. The entities 
are stored in a certain order, sorted by  then 
. There is a  entity 
which seems to contain a text count of the non-CURRENCY gnc:commodity 
entries.


This makes me wonder if I could transform my list of 130 security 
names and symbols into  entities, and insert them into 
the GnuCash XML of my book.


Are there complexities or pitfalls about this approach which I might 
be overlooking?  We can certainly stipulate that manipulating the XML 
content directly is unsupported and risky, I must be careful and keep 
backups, I might blow off my fingers, etc.  For what it's worth, I 
believe that I am pretty proficient with editing XML, processing CSV 
files, and scripting manipulations of text data.


Once I have the securities added to the book, I then need to add the 
appropriate child accounts to my brokerage accounts, each denominated 
in the appropriate security type and symbol. It looks like that is 
straightforward to do with a CSV of accounts in the correct format, 
and the File… Import…  Import Accounts from CSV… menu item. I have a 
few child accounts which I entered from the UI which will serve as 
examples.  Is there any way in which this is more difficult than it 
looks?


Cheers,
  —Jim "ADBE ALNIX AOL … VUG VWO ZTD81" DeLaHunt

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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Adrien Monteleone]

Check the 'Using GnuCash' page perhaps.

Regards,
Adrien

On 8/14/22 9:50 AM, Tom Browder wrote:


P.S. Is there a spot on the Wiki to list things like Geoff's suggestion and
flycatcher's program? If not, I will be glad to start one--suggestions
welcomed.



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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Tom Browder]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 00:40 Geoff  wrote:

> Hi Jim
>
> I don't have any experience manipulating GnuCash XML files, but in
> principle what you want to do should work, although it does void your
> GnuCash warranty.
>
> However, if you are going to all this effort you may find it more
> worthwhile to invest your time in learning how to use a general purpose
> automation tool.  This approach has two advantages over data manipulation:
> (1) Automation drives the GnuCash GUI and thus protects you from
> accidental data corruption.
> (2) You will be able to use your new automation skills to automate any
> subsequent GnuCash tasks, for example loading historical transactions to
> your 130 securities.
>
> For Windows, check out:
> AutoHotKey https://www.autohotkey.com/


Geoff, that looks very interesting, thanks for the link. I do most of my
work on Linux, but I do have to do some things on Windows (TL;DR), so this
is very useful.

One of the things I'm not sure about is how powerful the script is. For
instance, can it determine the date for 16 months before the current date?
That's one of the requirements for one of my banks earliest date of data
retrieval. And one has to start over again for each different account.

If it can't, then I will use the power of Raku to regenerate the autohotkey
script for the current date.

Best regards,

-Tom

P.S. Is there a spot on the Wiki to list things like Geoff's suggestion and
flycatcher's program? If not, I will be glad to start one--suggestions
welcomed.
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[GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[flywire]

Jim, this overlaps with what I was putting into
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2022-August/102404.html so
I stripped the data exchange part out. The sample data sets and references
might still be useful.

The GnuCash GUI won't import security data so in addition to what has been
mentioned that seems to leave python extensions, which I consider basically
inaccessible to users, or piecash.

Piecash has some good tutorials but they are hidden in the code repository.
I found it very easy to use and extended them in a fork but I haven't
looked at securities.

I understand the risk with piecash is there was limited GnuCash database
documentation so some of it is reverse engineered, and perhaps some of the
GnuCash data structures in code were added to make it work. Anyway, no
matter how small there is a risk it might fail in the future.
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Re: [GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Geoff]

Hi Jim

I don't have any experience manipulating GnuCash XML files, but in 
principle what you want to do should work, although it does void your 
GnuCash warranty.


However, if you are going to all this effort you may find it more 
worthwhile to invest your time in learning how to use a general purpose 
automation tool.  This approach has two advantages over data manipulation:
(1) Automation drives the GnuCash GUI and thus protects you from 
accidental data corruption.
(2) You will be able to use your new automation skills to automate any 
subsequent GnuCash tasks, for example loading historical transactions to 
your 130 securities.


For Windows, check out:
AutoHotKey https://www.autohotkey.com/
or:
Power Automate Desktop https://powerautomate.microsoft.com/en-us/desktop/

I can't recommend anything for Linux, but Google is your friend:
https://alternativeto.net/software/autohotkey/?platform=linux

Hope this helps.

Regards

Geoff
=

On 14/08/2022 11:28 am, Jim DeLaHunt wrote:

Hello, folks:

I am a long-time GnuCash user, and for all those years I have pretty 
much not attempted to track my investments in GnuCash. But now I want to 
start.  My first goal is to import many years of past activity.


I have downloaded the transactions from my brokerage account as a CSV 
file. The first thing I get out of this is the name and symbol of about 
130 securities. I am wondering if there is a practical way to bulk 
import these into GnuCash. That is, instead of visiting Tools -- 
Security Editor, and pressing the Add button 130 times, and filling out 
the "New security" dialogue 130 times, is there a more efficient path?


Looking at the File… Import menu, I do not see an option to import 
Securities. Looking at the documentation, wiki, and list archives, I 
don't see a mention of this. Is there some bulk import mechanism I am 
overlooking?


I took a look at the uncompressed XML contents of a new, simple .gnucash 
book file. It appears that the data entered in the "New security" 
dialogue gets stored as  entities. There appears to be a 
pretty simple relationship between the fields of the dialogue and the 
text within the  entity. The entities are stored in a 
certain order, sorted by  then . There is a 
 entity which seems to contain a 
text count of the non-CURRENCY gnc:commodity entries.


This makes me wonder if I could transform my list of 130 security names 
and symbols into  entities, and insert them into the 
GnuCash XML of my book.


Are there complexities or pitfalls about this approach which I might be 
overlooking?  We can certainly stipulate that manipulating the XML 
content directly is unsupported and risky, I must be careful and keep 
backups, I might blow off my fingers, etc.  For what it's worth, I 
believe that I am pretty proficient with editing XML, processing CSV 
files, and scripting manipulations of text data.


Once I have the securities added to the book, I then need to add the 
appropriate child accounts to my brokerage accounts, each denominated in 
the appropriate security type and symbol. It looks like that is 
straightforward to do with a CSV of accounts in the correct format, and 
the File… Import…  Import Accounts from CSV… menu item. I have a few 
child accounts which I entered from the UI which will serve as 
examples.  Is there any way in which this is more difficult than it looks?


Cheers,
  —Jim "ADBE ALNIX AOL … VUG VWO ZTD81" DeLaHunt

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[GNC] How to bulk import about 130 Securities entries?

[Jim DeLaHunt]

Hello, folks:

I am a long-time GnuCash user, and for all those years I have pretty 
much not attempted to track my investments in GnuCash. But now I want to 
start.  My first goal is to import many years of past activity.


I have downloaded the transactions from my brokerage account as a CSV 
file. The first thing I get out of this is the name and symbol of about 
130 securities. I am wondering if there is a practical way to bulk 
import these into GnuCash. That is, instead of visiting Tools -- 
Security Editor, and pressing the Add button 130 times, and filling out 
the "New security" dialogue 130 times, is there a more efficient path?


Looking at the File… Import menu, I do not see an option to import 
Securities. Looking at the documentation, wiki, and list archives, I 
don't see a mention of this. Is there some bulk import mechanism I am 
overlooking?


I took a look at the uncompressed XML contents of a new, simple .gnucash 
book file. It appears that the data entered in the "New security" 
dialogue gets stored as  entities. There appears to be a 
pretty simple relationship between the fields of the dialogue and the 
text within the  entity. The entities are stored in a 
certain order, sorted by  then . There is a 
 entity which seems to contain a 
text count of the non-CURRENCY gnc:commodity entries.


This makes me wonder if I could transform my list of 130 security names 
and symbols into  entities, and insert them into the 
GnuCash XML of my book.


Are there complexities or pitfalls about this approach which I might be 
overlooking?  We can certainly stipulate that manipulating the XML 
content directly is unsupported and risky, I must be careful and keep 
backups, I might blow off my fingers, etc.  For what it's worth, I 
believe that I am pretty proficient with editing XML, processing CSV 
files, and scripting manipulations of text data.


Once I have the securities added to the book, I then need to add the 
appropriate child accounts to my brokerage accounts, each denominated in 
the appropriate security type and symbol. It looks like that is 
straightforward to do with a CSV of accounts in the correct format, and 
the File… Import…  Import Accounts from CSV… menu item. I have a few 
child accounts which I entered from the UI which will serve as 
examples.  Is there any way in which this is more difficult than it looks?


Cheers,
 —Jim "ADBE ALNIX AOL … VUG VWO ZTD81" DeLaHunt

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Re: [GNC] Example of accounts for a personal residence with entries for US tax basis

[Michael or Penny Novack]

If you need, you can split the expenditure between the Asset (affecting 
the basis) and the Expense accounts.



The purpose of accounting is INFORMATION. That is what my "PS" was all 
about. Thinking that you have to split the expenditure is an illusion. 
You might want/need all of part of that expenditure considered BOTH as a 
(current) expense and as an increase in basis (for future capital gains 
calculation).This is unlike the situation for a business, as personal 
home expenses are not expenses in the tax sense. So "double counting" is 
not an issue.


This is not unlike the situation for a non-profit paying an expense that 
meets the qualifications of one of the restricted funds. You 
transaction(s) have to BOTH record the expenditure and expense AND 
release that amount from restriction. Exactly what that latter part 
looks like depends on how the restricted funds are accounted for.


Michael D Novack



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Re: [GNC] Example of accounts for a personal residence with entries for US tax basis

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

On Tue, July 12, 2022 11:32 am, Tom Browder wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 09:38 Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
[snip]
> Thanks, Michael.  Yes, I understand the need for carefully determining,
> according to IRS rules, what is allowed for basis. But I'm not sure of
> what
> you're doing with the things not allowed for basis, e.g., maintenance
> expenses. (Unless you're talking about an invoice which might need to be
> split such as a reroof job plus chimney or dry rot repair.)

I think what I would do is that those are literally Expense categories,
and I would make appropriate accounts for that (e.g. Expenses:Landscaping
or Expenses:Maintenance).  If you need, you can split the expenditure
between the Asset (affecting the basis) and the Expense accounts.

>
> -Tom

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: [GNC] Example of accounts for a personal residence with entries for US tax basis

[Tom Browder]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 09:38 Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On 7/12/2022 9:01 AM, Derek Atkins wrote:
> > The way I do it personally (note: IANAA) is that I have an Assets:Fixed
> > Assets: account with subaccounts for, e.g. Purchase,
> > Renovations, etc.
> >
> > That way I account for improvements that change the basis, and the summed
> > balance of A:FA: is my current basis.
> >
> > -derek
>
> This is very much not a gnucash question per se. Or rather the gnucash
> part of it rather simple, just make "basis" a parent with two children,
> one for the original acquisition basis and one for later "improvements".
>
> BUT --- you need to know WHAT is allowed for each of these according to
> IRS rules. The first part, "acquisition basis" is relatively simple and
> probably already done long go. It's the second that is not so simple.
> Not beyond the examples the IRS will use. In other words, what counts as
> "improvements" which you can add to the basis and what is considered
> "general maintenance" and you cannot add to the basis. Thus .


Thanks, Michael.  Yes, I understand the need for carefully determining,
according to IRS rules, what is allowed for basis. But I'm not sure of what
you're doing with the things not allowed for basis, e.g., maintenance
expenses. (Unless you're talking about an invoice which might need to be
split such as a reroof job plus chimney or dry rot repair.)

-Tom
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Re: [GNC] Example of accounts for a personal residence with entries for US tax basis

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 7/12/2022 9:01 AM, Derek Atkins wrote:

The way I do it personally (note: IANAA) is that I have an Assets:Fixed
Assets: account with subaccounts for, e.g. Purchase,
Renovations, etc.

That way I account for improvements that change the basis, and the summed
balance of A:FA: is my current basis.

-derek


This is very much not a gnucash question per se. Or rather the gnucash 
part of it rather simple, just make "basis" a parent with two children, 
one for the original acquisition basis and one for later "improvements".


BUT --- you need to know WHAT is allowed for each of these according to 
IRS rules. The first part, "acquisition basis" is relatively simple and 
probably already done long go. It's the second that is not so simple. 
Not beyond the examples the IRS will use. In other words, what counts as 
"improvements" which you can add to the basis and what is considered 
"general maintenance" and you cannot add to the basis. Thus .


With the understanding that I a NOT "qualified" to give such advice

Adding an addition or a garage -- obviously yes, add to basis

Having the roof reshingled  or the house repainted-- I think so, but 
best look up


Replacing the carpeting -- I think not, but best to look up.

Etc.

Michael D Novack

PS: If it is actually a different question you are asking along these 
lines: "I want to show, in our personal expenses, the cost of 
"improvements" that are allowed to be added to the basis << I want BOTH 
accounts debited >> what does the transaction look like?"


In THAT case, you can do either two transactions or a two way split 
transaction, with the basis adjustment part a "journal transaction" 
(equity is the other side)



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Re: [GNC] Example of accounts for a personal residence with entries for US tax basis

[Tom Browder]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 08:01 Derek Atkins  wrote:

> The way I do it personally (note: IANAA) is that I have an Assets:Fixed
> Assets: account with subaccounts for, e.g. Purchase,
> Renovations, etc.
>
> That way I account for improvements that change the basis, and the summed
> balance of A:FA: is my current basis.


Thanks, Derek. I think that’s all I need.

Best regards,

-Tom
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Re: [GNC] Example of accounts for a personal residence with entries for US tax basis

[Derek Atkins]

The way I do it personally (note: IANAA) is that I have an Assets:Fixed
Assets: account with subaccounts for, e.g. Purchase,
Renovations, etc.

That way I account for improvements that change the basis, and the summed
balance of A:FA: is my current basis.

-derek


On Tue, July 12, 2022 8:38 am, Tom Browder wrote:
> I have looked at several accounting books and websites for an example of
> accounting for an owner's personal residence and US fedral tax treatment
> for improvements contributing to basis, but I haven't yet found a recipe
> suitable for my lame level of bookkeeping knowledge.
>
> Can anyone point to such an example?  The Gnucash docs do a good job for
> business applications, and I will try to adapt that to my case, but a
> better example for one's personal residence would be much appreciated.
>
> Best regards,
>
> -Tom
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-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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[GNC] Example of accounts for a personal residence with entries for US tax basis

[Tom Browder]

I have looked at several accounting books and websites for an example of
accounting for an owner's personal residence and US fedral tax treatment
for improvements contributing to basis, but I haven't yet found a recipe
suitable for my lame level of bookkeeping knowledge.

Can anyone point to such an example?  The Gnucash docs do a good job for
business applications, and I will try to adapt that to my case, but a
better example for one's personal residence would be much appreciated.

Best regards,

-Tom
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Re: [GNC] Itemize multiple tax entries in invoice

[Adrien Monteleone]

If you are viewing a report, the menu entry is found in the Edit menu, 
but in this case, it is always a toolbar icon as well.


Regards,
Adrien

On 6/15/22 10:02 PM, Jay Thompson wrote:

Where can I find the "report options" in the menu? Thanks


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Re: [GNC] Itemize multiple tax entries in invoice

[Jay Thompson]

Where can I find the "report options" in the menu? Thanks

On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 10:32 PM Derek Atkins  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, June 15, 2022 10:22 pm, Jay Thompson wrote:
> > I use a tax table that contains multiple entries. For example:
> > Tax table entries:
> > 1- Federal ; 5%
> > 2- State ; 7%
> >
> > The tax breakdown *absolutely* needs to show up on the invoice. For
> > example:
> > 1 item= $100
> > *Federal tax* = $5
> > *State tax* = $7
> >   ==
> > Total price = $112
> >
> > Currently, GnuCash lumps all taxes under a single line item in the
> > invoice.
> > How can my invoice breakdown and itemize the different tax entries on the
> > invoice? I also need to specify what each line item represents. I don"t
> > want it to simply say "tax".
>
> Make sure the tax table entries go to different accounts, and then make
> sure you have "Use Detailed Tax Summary" is selected in the report options
> (it defaults to "off").
>
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
> -derek
>
> --
>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Itemize multiple tax entries in invoice

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

On Wed, June 15, 2022 10:22 pm, Jay Thompson wrote:
> I use a tax table that contains multiple entries. For example:
> Tax table entries:
> 1- Federal ; 5%
> 2- State ; 7%
>
> The tax breakdown *absolutely* needs to show up on the invoice. For
> example:
> 1 item= $100
> *Federal tax* = $5
> *State tax* = $7
>   ==
> Total price = $112
>
> Currently, GnuCash lumps all taxes under a single line item in the
> invoice.
> How can my invoice breakdown and itemize the different tax entries on the
> invoice? I also need to specify what each line item represents. I don"t
> want it to simply say "tax".

Make sure the tax table entries go to different accounts, and then make
sure you have "Use Detailed Tax Summary" is selected in the report options
(it defaults to "off").

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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[GNC] Itemize multiple tax entries in invoice

[Jay Thompson]

I use a tax table that contains multiple entries. For example:
Tax table entries:
1- Federal ; 5%
2- State ; 7%

The tax breakdown *absolutely* needs to show up on the invoice. For
example:
1 item= $100
*Federal tax* = $5
*State tax* = $7
  ==
Total price = $112

Currently, GnuCash lumps all taxes under a single line item in the invoice.
How can my invoice breakdown and itemize the different tax entries on the
invoice? I also need to specify what each line item represents. I don"t
want it to simply say "tax".
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Re: [GNC] Zero price entries

[Gyle McCollam]

PS, sorry I don't see the screenshot, so I'm flying blind.  Since you say they 
are in the PriceDB, maybe there is a way to edit the DB directly, nit using 
GnuCash and price to sort as I suggested.


Thank You,
Gyle McCollam

Gyle McCollam

609.680.2326 Mobile

gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com>   email


From: Fred Tydeman 
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 10:54 AM
To: Gyle McCollam 
Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
Subject: Re: [GNC] Zero price entries



On Thu, Jun 9, 2022 at 7:46 AM Gyle McCollam 
mailto:gmccol...@live.com>> wrote:
Fred,
The key is in your question.  You can use Edit/Find and search for zero values 
and apparently, if you do it from the accounts screen you can search all 
account at once or you could search in each account.  Once it finds the 
transaction it displays them in a new tab.  All you have to do is delete them 
from there and they will gone in the account they were found in.


I am not looking for transactions with zero price.
I am looking for entries in the price database (Tools->Price Editor)

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Re: [GNC] Zero price entries

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Fred,

Technically, these are not price entries, which implies the PriceDB in 
GnuCash. They are transaction entries in a register. I am not sure 
whether Gyle's solution would work, since I'm not sure how you'd search 
for those entries; from your screenshot, it looks as if the entries have 
a null value, and I'm not sure how that would get searched. But I am 
most definitely not any expert.


My low budget kludge would be to try to sort the register by value, 
which should put all those transactions at the top of the register for 
your editing pleasure.


David T.

On 6/9/2022 10:45 AM, Gyle McCollam wrote:

Fred,
The key is in your question.  You can use Edit/Find and search for zero values 
and apparently, if you do it from the accounts screen you can search all 
account at once or you could search in each account.  Once it finds the 
transaction it displays them in a new tab.  All you have to do is delete them 
from there and they will gone in the account they were found in.


Thank You,
Gyle McCollam

Gyle McCollam

609.680.2326 Mobile

gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com>   email


From: gnucash-user  on behalf of 
Fred Tydeman 
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 10:38 AM
To: Gnucash Users 
Subject: [GNC] Zero price entries

Is there an easy way to find all the zero price entries in the price
history?

I have several hundred stock and currency items, some with zero price
entries.

I am used to using Enter (instead of Tab) as a way to advance to the next
field in a new transaction.  Because of that, I believe that caused zero
price entries to end up in the price history.  I would like to find those
zero price entries and delete them.
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Re: [GNC] Zero price entries

[Fred Tydeman]

On Thu, Jun 9, 2022 at 7:46 AM Gyle McCollam  wrote:

> Fred,
> The key is in your question.  You can use Edit/Find and search for zero
> values and apparently, if you do it from the accounts screen you can search
> all account at once or you could search in each account.  Once it finds the
> transaction it displays them in a new tab.  All you have to do is delete
> them from there and they will gone in the account they were found in.
>
>
I am not looking for transactions with zero price.
I am looking for entries in the price database (Tools->Price Editor)
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Re: [GNC] Zero price entries

[Gyle McCollam]

Fred,
The key is in your question.  You can use Edit/Find and search for zero values 
and apparently, if you do it from the accounts screen you can search all 
account at once or you could search in each account.  Once it finds the 
transaction it displays them in a new tab.  All you have to do is delete them 
from there and they will gone in the account they were found in.


Thank You,
Gyle McCollam

Gyle McCollam

609.680.2326 Mobile

gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com>   email


From: gnucash-user  on 
behalf of Fred Tydeman 
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 10:38 AM
To: Gnucash Users 
Subject: [GNC] Zero price entries

Is there an easy way to find all the zero price entries in the price
history?

I have several hundred stock and currency items, some with zero price
entries.

I am used to using Enter (instead of Tab) as a way to advance to the next
field in a new transaction.  Because of that, I believe that caused zero
price entries to end up in the price history.  I would like to find those
zero price entries and delete them.
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[GNC] Zero price entries

[Fred Tydeman]

Is there an easy way to find all the zero price entries in the price
history?

I have several hundred stock and currency items, some with zero price
entries.

I am used to using Enter (instead of Tab) as a way to advance to the next
field in a new transaction.  Because of that, I believe that caused zero
price entries to end up in the price history.  I would like to find those
zero price entries and delete them.
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Re: [GNC] How to handle multiple entries of multiply reconciled entries

[Jeff]

On 2/3/22 10:07 AM, Alan A Holmes wrote:

Hi Jeff,

Did you take a copy of the database before you upgraded to version 4.9. If so 
you could take a copy of this backup and open that in version 4.9, which might 
tell you if the corruption existed before upgrading to version 4.9.

Do you have anyway of finding out which version you had before version 4.9? Was 
it another flatpack version, or was it the version as part of Ubuntu 20.04 LTS? 
That version might still be available on your machine, or you could re-install 
that version, which would allow you to look at any backup copy before upgrading 
to version 4.9 in that version to see if the corruption existed.

You could also look at any/all backup copy taken automatically by version 4.9 
to see if the corruption exists. This depends on how many days of backups/logs 
you have specified should be kept in the settings. This might show when the 
corruption first started.

If you can find a backup copy that isn't corrupted then you could start with 
that copy and then either manually enter all transactions since then, or use 
the log files created since then to re-apply a subset of transactions (I think 
I remember a thread somewhere that said you can be selective in which 
transactions to re-apply).


Alan A Holmes

-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  
On Behalf Of Jeff
Sent: 03 February 2022 07:43
To: Gnucash userlist 
Subject: [GNC] How to handle multiple entries of multiply reconciled entries

How I did this is beyond me, somehow I confused GNC to let it happen or had a 
data corruption when the journal was improperly saved (power outage, GNC lost a 
poker game, thought it was Quirken, etc).  I use uncompressed XML on Ubuntu 
20.04LTS.

I have discovered multiple (dozens) of transactions that are duplicates in 
several registers but; reconciled to the wrong accounts.  I am not sure of the 
easiest and proper way to correct them.

Example of the simplest ones are:  using Check 101, Cash, salary.

01/01/10 chk 101 -> Cash -> chk 101 reconciled

01/01/10 chk 101 -> salary -> salary reconciled

These are posted as 2 entirely separate transactions, in the same register, but 
are supposed to be only one transaction:

01/01/10 chk 101 -> salary -> both reconciled

As a result my current balance is now off by off by over $4,000.

And the real kicker, is that these errors now go back 3 years in this journal.  
I know these errors did not exist prior to FlatPak 4.9, not sure which version 
I upgraded from to 4.9.  Plus they would have shown up when I did reports for 
taxes and income expense statements last year.

Suggestions, besides burning more midnight oil than this old man has left, 
other than to delete all of them and enter all of them correctly as I find 
them.  I'm in tax time crunch here.

--
--JEffrey Black M.B.A.

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.


I always make a backup before doing an upgrade, unfortunately I deleted 
it some time after upgrading as I believed that everything was working 
as it should.  I do not remember what version I used prior to FlatPak 
4.9.  I want to say 4.2 but I'd be lying if I said I knew that for sure.


As for the log copies I only keep 7 days worth and I have the bad habit 
of running GNC multiple times on any given day.  I could try loading the 
oldest one and see if the problem is still there.


It may be that I got the backups mixed up while trying to build 4.9 from 
source.  I have yet to successfully create a version that runs.


--
--JEffrey Black M.B.A.

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Re: [GNC] How to handle multiple entries of multiply reconciled entries

[Greg Feneis]

Duplicate transactions could happen if the user isn't carefully reviewing
what the matcher has cooked up during importing of account data from the FI
to GnuCash. EG if I import credit card data, payments to my credit card are
automatically attributed to my checking account.  Then, If I import data
from my checking account data, a failure in matching promotes the same
transaction to be added again because the existing transaction isn't
matched to the transaction being imported.  The matcher's automation is
good for the majority of the work, but the user still needs to review its
work and occasionally correct things.  Anyway, perhaps a scenario like this
is causing your duplicates?




Kind regards,

Greg Feneis




On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 8:09 AM Alan A Holmes 
wrote:

> Hi Jeff,
>
> Did you take a copy of the database before you upgraded to version 4.9. If
> so you could take a copy of this backup and open that in version 4.9, which
> might tell you if the corruption existed before upgrading to version 4.9.
>
> Do you have anyway of finding out which version you had before version
> 4.9? Was it another flatpack version, or was it the version as part of
> Ubuntu 20.04 LTS? That version might still be available on your machine, or
> you could re-install that version, which would allow you to look at any
> backup copy before upgrading to version 4.9 in that version to see if the
> corruption existed.
>
> You could also look at any/all backup copy taken automatically by version
> 4.9 to see if the corruption exists. This depends on how many days of
> backups/logs you have specified should be kept in the settings. This might
> show when the corruption first started.
>
> If you can find a backup copy that isn't corrupted then you could start
> with that copy and then either manually enter all transactions since then,
> or use the log files created since then to re-apply a subset of
> transactions (I think I remember a thread somewhere that said you can be
> selective in which transactions to re-apply).
>
>
> Alan A Holmes
>
> -Original Message-
> From: gnucash-user  alanaholmes.me...@gnucash.org> On Behalf Of Jeff
> Sent: 03 February 2022 07:43
> To: Gnucash userlist 
> Subject: [GNC] How to handle multiple entries of multiply reconciled
> entries
>
> How I did this is beyond me, somehow I confused GNC to let it happen or
> had a data corruption when the journal was improperly saved (power outage,
> GNC lost a poker game, thought it was Quirken, etc).  I use uncompressed
> XML on Ubuntu 20.04LTS.
>
> I have discovered multiple (dozens) of transactions that are duplicates in
> several registers but; reconciled to the wrong accounts.  I am not sure of
> the easiest and proper way to correct them.
>
> Example of the simplest ones are:  using Check 101, Cash, salary.
>
> 01/01/10 chk 101 -> Cash -> chk 101 reconciled
>
> 01/01/10 chk 101 -> salary -> salary reconciled
>
> These are posted as 2 entirely separate transactions, in the same
> register, but are supposed to be only one transaction:
>
> 01/01/10 chk 101 -> salary -> both reconciled
>
> As a result my current balance is now off by off by over $4,000.
>
> And the real kicker, is that these errors now go back 3 years in this
> journal.  I know these errors did not exist prior to FlatPak 4.9, not sure
> which version I upgraded from to 4.9.  Plus they would have shown up when I
> did reports for taxes and income expense statements last year.
>
> Suggestions, besides burning more midnight oil than this old man has left,
> other than to delete all of them and enter all of them correctly as I find
> them.  I'm in tax time crunch here.
>
> --
> --JEffrey Black M.B.A.
>
> ___
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Re: [GNC] How to handle multiple entries of multiply reconciled entries

[Alan A Holmes]

Hi Jeff,

Did you take a copy of the database before you upgraded to version 4.9. If so 
you could take a copy of this backup and open that in version 4.9, which might 
tell you if the corruption existed before upgrading to version 4.9.

Do you have anyway of finding out which version you had before version 4.9? Was 
it another flatpack version, or was it the version as part of Ubuntu 20.04 LTS? 
That version might still be available on your machine, or you could re-install 
that version, which would allow you to look at any backup copy before upgrading 
to version 4.9 in that version to see if the corruption existed.

You could also look at any/all backup copy taken automatically by version 4.9 
to see if the corruption exists. This depends on how many days of backups/logs 
you have specified should be kept in the settings. This might show when the 
corruption first started.

If you can find a backup copy that isn't corrupted then you could start with 
that copy and then either manually enter all transactions since then, or use 
the log files created since then to re-apply a subset of transactions (I think 
I remember a thread somewhere that said you can be selective in which 
transactions to re-apply).


Alan A Holmes

-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  
On Behalf Of Jeff
Sent: 03 February 2022 07:43
To: Gnucash userlist 
Subject: [GNC] How to handle multiple entries of multiply reconciled entries

How I did this is beyond me, somehow I confused GNC to let it happen or had a 
data corruption when the journal was improperly saved (power outage, GNC lost a 
poker game, thought it was Quirken, etc).  I use uncompressed XML on Ubuntu 
20.04LTS.

I have discovered multiple (dozens) of transactions that are duplicates in 
several registers but; reconciled to the wrong accounts.  I am not sure of the 
easiest and proper way to correct them.

Example of the simplest ones are:  using Check 101, Cash, salary.

01/01/10 chk 101 -> Cash -> chk 101 reconciled

01/01/10 chk 101 -> salary -> salary reconciled

These are posted as 2 entirely separate transactions, in the same register, but 
are supposed to be only one transaction:

01/01/10 chk 101 -> salary -> both reconciled

As a result my current balance is now off by off by over $4,000.

And the real kicker, is that these errors now go back 3 years in this journal.  
I know these errors did not exist prior to FlatPak 4.9, not sure which version 
I upgraded from to 4.9.  Plus they would have shown up when I did reports for 
taxes and income expense statements last year.

Suggestions, besides burning more midnight oil than this old man has left, 
other than to delete all of them and enter all of them correctly as I find 
them.  I'm in tax time crunch here.

--
--JEffrey Black M.B.A.

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[GNC] How to handle multiple entries of multiply reconciled entries

[Jeff]

How I did this is beyond me, somehow I confused GNC to let it happen or 
had a data corruption when the journal was improperly saved (power 
outage, GNC lost a poker game, thought it was Quirken, etc).  I use 
uncompressed XML on Ubuntu 20.04LTS.


I have discovered multiple (dozens) of transactions that are duplicates 
in several registers but; reconciled to the wrong accounts.  I am not 
sure of the easiest and proper way to correct them.


Example of the simplest ones are:  using Check 101, Cash, salary.

01/01/10 chk 101 -> Cash -> chk 101 reconciled

01/01/10 chk 101 -> salary -> salary reconciled

These are posted as 2 entirely separate transactions, in the same 
register, but are supposed to be only one transaction:


01/01/10 chk 101 -> salary -> both reconciled

As a result my current balance is now off by off by over $4,000.

And the real kicker, is that these errors now go back 3 years in this 
journal.  I know these errors did not exist prior to FlatPak 4.9, not 
sure which version I upgraded from to 4.9.  Plus they would have shown 
up when I did reports for taxes and income expense statements last year.


Suggestions, besides burning more midnight oil than this old man has 
left, other than to delete all of them and enter all of them correctly 
as I find them.  I'm in tax time crunch here.


--
--JEffrey Black M.B.A.

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Re: [GNC] Report Options - Closing Entries Pattern

[Adrien Monteleone]

Derek and Liz give the correct advice to keep separate books, but to 
your particular question of getting a filtered P—"you can't."


You can however, get really close to one using the Transaction Report 
and its more robust filtering abilities. Then export that to a 
spreadsheet and fill in your formulas for totaling the various sections.


Regards,
Adrien

On 1/22/22 12:34 PM, Louise wrote:

I'm trying to set up a sort of classes in Gnucash like Quickbooks.  I like
to keep one file with multiple bank accounts and businesses together.  So,
I wanted to use @bookkeeping, @rental and @personal etc in the description
field to be able to pull a P and filter only to show transactions
with @bookkeeping or @rental in the description.  Then I would be able to
separate a P for each rental or business.

My issue is that I'm trying to use Options > Entries > Closing Entries
Pattern to filter a P  When I put @bookeeping in the field it is showing
me exactly the opposite.  I get totals of everything that does NOT
have @bookeeping in the description field.  I'm having a hard time finding
any documentation on how to use the closing entries pattern to help filter
a report.  Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way?  Any help is
appreciated!


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Re: [GNC] Report Options - Closing Entries Pattern

[Liz Dodd]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 13:34:10 -0500
Louise  wrote:

>  I like
> to keep one file with multiple bank accounts and businesses together.
>  So, I wanted to use @bookkeeping, @rental and @personal etc in the
> description field to be able to pull a P and filter only to show
> transactions with @bookkeeping or @rental in the description.  Then I
> would be able to separate a P for each rental or business.

I keep several sets of books. It makes it much easier for my
accountant. I have to pay for their services by the hour, so having my
information close to what they want to see helps with that.

Think about selling one of the rental properties. You want to be able
to produce accounts showing what you really paid on upkeep and the true
income. A P report is just a summary and your purchaser might want
more details. You would not want them to know how much cash you had in
the bank, nor what other businesses you operate. Such information could
change the price offered.

Your tax rules may be clear on separate accounts. I need to show
separate bank accounts and separate accounting. 

Liz
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Re: [GNC] Report Options - Closing Entries Pattern

[Derek Atkins]

HI,

On Sat, January 22, 2022 1:34 pm, Louise wrote:
> I'm trying to set up a sort of classes in Gnucash like Quickbooks.  I like
> to keep one file with multiple bank accounts and businesses together.  So,
> I wanted to use @bookkeeping, @rental and @personal etc in the description
> field to be able to pull a P and filter only to show transactions
> with @bookkeeping or @rental in the description.  Then I would be able to
> separate a P for each rental or business.
>
> My issue is that I'm trying to use Options > Entries > Closing Entries
> Pattern to filter a P  When I put @bookeeping in the field it is
> showing
> me exactly the opposite.  I get totals of everything that does NOT
> have @bookeeping in the description field.  I'm having a hard time finding
> any documentation on how to use the closing entries pattern to help filter
> a report.  Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way?  Any help is
> appreciated!

Yes, I think you are going about this the wrong way.

The "Closing Pattern" option is how you tell GnuCash what to look for in
the Close Book transactions.  When you run Tools -> Close Books, it
creates a closing transaction to move all your value from Income/Expense
to Equity.  However, when you run a report, you need to "ignore" those
transactions.  Hense, you use the option to tell GnuCash how to find those
transactions to ignore...

And this is why you're seeing the "opposite" of what you want.

GnuCash does not have Classes, and really there is no good way to
replicate that behavior.

However, I question why you are including Business and Personal
transactions in one set of books?

Note that there are SOME filtering options you can use within, e.g., the
transaction report..  But the MAIN reports (P, BS, etc) do not have
those same features.

Good Luck,

> Thanks,
>
> Louise

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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[GNC] Report Options - Closing Entries Pattern

[Louise]

I'm trying to set up a sort of classes in Gnucash like Quickbooks.  I like
to keep one file with multiple bank accounts and businesses together.  So,
I wanted to use @bookkeeping, @rental and @personal etc in the description
field to be able to pull a P and filter only to show transactions
with @bookkeeping or @rental in the description.  Then I would be able to
separate a P for each rental or business.

My issue is that I'm trying to use Options > Entries > Closing Entries
Pattern to filter a P  When I put @bookeeping in the field it is showing
me exactly the opposite.  I get totals of everything that does NOT
have @bookeeping in the description field.  I'm having a hard time finding
any documentation on how to use the closing entries pattern to help filter
a report.  Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way?  Any help is
appreciated!

Thanks,

Louise
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Re: [GNC] Customer Invoice Ledger Entries (Debits & Credits) for Freelancers?

[Michael or Penny Novack]

It's NOT just "freelancers". It's the more general problem of invoicing 
only supported for when on accrual basis, not for when on cash basis. I 
have been keeping books for non-profits and these are usually cash 
basis. On the other hand, some individuals are required to use accrual 
basis.


So the issue is (for you) how hard to make the annual or quarterly 
adjustments (depends on how you file tax). I don't know what YOUR "line 
items" might be, but if you are a freelancers providing a service, the 
income side adjustments might not be hard at all. And you are in a 
position not to have "pending" expenses at end of year/quarter.


Michael D Novack

ps -- producing the report with various accounts excluded not hard at 
all. Your extra work is entering twice for each invoice when posted 
received or paid (the second transaction moving from "pending" to 
"paid"in income and expenses.




On 6/17/2021 7:07 PM, GrantSRobertson wrote:

When entering a customer invoice, it appears that the only balancing accounts
(the non-Accounts-Receivable accounts) GnuCash will allow one to choose from
are income accounts and certain,  non-special, liability accounts. Normally,
this would be just fine for a business accounting system because businesses
accrue their income when it is earned. However, individuals (such as
freelancers) accrue their income only after it is paid. Therefore, if I am
not paid for months (it happens), then all my tax calculations will be off
because I will be paying taxes on income earned (the business way) instead
of only on income paid (the individual's way).

If I had complete control, I would assign an Equity:Pending_Income account
as the balancing account, to show that I had "equity" but not income, up
until the time I actually get paid. Then, after I get paid, I would manually
transfer that money from that special Equity:Pending_Income account to an
appropriate income account. I recognize that when applying a payment to a
customer invoice, the only ledger entries made are the transfer from the
Assets:Accounts-Receivable account to the Assets:Whatever_Banking_Account
account. So, any other transfers/ledger-entries would need to be made by
hand.

However, because the above is not possible, I am looking for other
alternatives.

My first thought is to simply introduce another level to the income accounts
hierarchy. Something like:

Income:Pending
Income:Paid   (placeholder)
   :

I would still have to manually create a separate ledger entry to transfer
money from the Income:Pending account to the actual income account it
belongs in.

And, I would then have to figure out how to generate reports that ONLY
reported income from under the Income:Paid placeholder parent account. Would
that be too very difficult? Or would I just be creating an ever-increasing
amount of compounding complexity to my accounting workflow?

In the end, it seems GnuCash is not really designed for freelancers yet. All
assumptions are that one is operating as a business with paid employees. It
seems to me, to achieve the most flexibility, GnuCash should allow users to
custom configure the behavior of the invoice and payment features, to allow
us to automatically do whatever transfers and ledger entries we see fit to
achieve the intended goal.



--
Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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Re: [GNC] Customer Invoice Ledger Entries (Debits & Credits) for Freelancers?

[Derek Atkins]

See https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95700

-derek

On Thu, June 17, 2021 7:07 pm, GrantSRobertson wrote:
> When entering a customer invoice, it appears that the only balancing
> accounts
> (the non-Accounts-Receivable accounts) GnuCash will allow one to choose
> from
> are income accounts and certain,  non-special, liability accounts.
> Normally,
> this would be just fine for a business accounting system because
> businesses
> accrue their income when it is earned. However, individuals (such as
> freelancers) accrue their income only after it is paid. Therefore, if I am
> not paid for months (it happens), then all my tax calculations will be off
> because I will be paying taxes on income earned (the business way) instead
> of only on income paid (the individual's way).
>
> If I had complete control, I would assign an Equity:Pending_Income account
> as the balancing account, to show that I had "equity" but not income, up
> until the time I actually get paid. Then, after I get paid, I would
> manually
> transfer that money from that special Equity:Pending_Income account to an
> appropriate income account. I recognize that when applying a payment to a
> customer invoice, the only ledger entries made are the transfer from the
> Assets:Accounts-Receivable account to the Assets:Whatever_Banking_Account
> account. So, any other transfers/ledger-entries would need to be made by
> hand.
>
> However, because the above is not possible, I am looking for other
> alternatives.
>
> My first thought is to simply introduce another level to the income
> accounts
> hierarchy. Something like:
>
> Income:Pending
> Income:Paid   (placeholder)
>   :
>
> I would still have to manually create a separate ledger entry to transfer
> money from the Income:Pending account to the actual income account it
> belongs in.
>
> And, I would then have to figure out how to generate reports that ONLY
> reported income from under the Income:Paid placeholder parent account.
> Would
> that be too very difficult? Or would I just be creating an ever-increasing
> amount of compounding complexity to my accounting workflow?
>
> In the end, it seems GnuCash is not really designed for freelancers yet.
> All
> assumptions are that one is operating as a business with paid employees.
> It
> seems to me, to achieve the most flexibility, GnuCash should allow users
> to
> custom configure the behavior of the invoice and payment features, to
> allow
> us to automatically do whatever transfers and ledger entries we see fit to
> achieve the intended goal.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
> ___
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-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: [GNC] Customer Invoice Ledger Entries (Debits & Credits) for Freelancers?

[Clint Chaplin]

More formally, GnuCash seems to account using accrual basis, while an
individual tends to account using cash basis?

On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 4:09 PM GrantSRobertson  wrote:

> When entering a customer invoice, it appears that the only balancing
> accounts
> (the non-Accounts-Receivable accounts) GnuCash will allow one to choose
> from
> are income accounts and certain,  non-special, liability accounts.
> Normally,
> this would be just fine for a business accounting system because businesses
> accrue their income when it is earned. However, individuals (such as
> freelancers) accrue their income only after it is paid. Therefore, if I am
> not paid for months (it happens), then all my tax calculations will be off
> because I will be paying taxes on income earned (the business way) instead
> of only on income paid (the individual's way).
>
> If I had complete control, I would assign an Equity:Pending_Income account
> as the balancing account, to show that I had "equity" but not income, up
> until the time I actually get paid. Then, after I get paid, I would
> manually
> transfer that money from that special Equity:Pending_Income account to an
> appropriate income account. I recognize that when applying a payment to a
> customer invoice, the only ledger entries made are the transfer from the
> Assets:Accounts-Receivable account to the Assets:Whatever_Banking_Account
> account. So, any other transfers/ledger-entries would need to be made by
> hand.
>
> However, because the above is not possible, I am looking for other
> alternatives.
>
> My first thought is to simply introduce another level to the income
> accounts
> hierarchy. Something like:
>
> Income:Pending
> Income:Paid   (placeholder)
>   :
>
> I would still have to manually create a separate ledger entry to transfer
> money from the Income:Pending account to the actual income account it
> belongs in.
>
> And, I would then have to figure out how to generate reports that ONLY
> reported income from under the Income:Paid placeholder parent account.
> Would
> that be too very difficult? Or would I just be creating an ever-increasing
> amount of compounding complexity to my accounting workflow?
>
> In the end, it seems GnuCash is not really designed for freelancers yet.
> All
> assumptions are that one is operating as a business with paid employees. It
> seems to me, to achieve the most flexibility, GnuCash should allow users to
> custom configure the behavior of the invoice and payment features, to allow
> us to automatically do whatever transfers and ledger entries we see fit to
> achieve the intended goal.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
> ___
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-- 
Clint (JOATMON) Chaplin
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[GNC] Customer Invoice Ledger Entries (Debits & Credits) for Freelancers?

[GrantSRobertson]

When entering a customer invoice, it appears that the only balancing accounts
(the non-Accounts-Receivable accounts) GnuCash will allow one to choose from
are income accounts and certain,  non-special, liability accounts. Normally,
this would be just fine for a business accounting system because businesses
accrue their income when it is earned. However, individuals (such as
freelancers) accrue their income only after it is paid. Therefore, if I am
not paid for months (it happens), then all my tax calculations will be off
because I will be paying taxes on income earned (the business way) instead
of only on income paid (the individual's way). 

If I had complete control, I would assign an Equity:Pending_Income account
as the balancing account, to show that I had "equity" but not income, up
until the time I actually get paid. Then, after I get paid, I would manually
transfer that money from that special Equity:Pending_Income account to an
appropriate income account. I recognize that when applying a payment to a
customer invoice, the only ledger entries made are the transfer from the
Assets:Accounts-Receivable account to the Assets:Whatever_Banking_Account
account. So, any other transfers/ledger-entries would need to be made by
hand.

However, because the above is not possible, I am looking for other
alternatives.

My first thought is to simply introduce another level to the income accounts
hierarchy. Something like:

Income:Pending
Income:Paid   (placeholder)
  :

I would still have to manually create a separate ledger entry to transfer
money from the Income:Pending account to the actual income account it
belongs in.

And, I would then have to figure out how to generate reports that ONLY
reported income from under the Income:Paid placeholder parent account. Would
that be too very difficult? Or would I just be creating an ever-increasing
amount of compounding complexity to my accounting workflow?

In the end, it seems GnuCash is not really designed for freelancers yet. All
assumptions are that one is operating as a business with paid employees. It
seems to me, to achieve the most flexibility, GnuCash should allow users to
custom configure the behavior of the invoice and payment features, to allow
us to automatically do whatever transfers and ledger entries we see fit to
achieve the intended goal. 



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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[Liz Dodd]

On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 11:11:22 -0400
"David T. via gnucash-user"  wrote:

> Given how easy it is to correct these problems (i.e., change the
> Account in the erroneous entry from Imbalance-XXX to some other
> account and press enter), I don't see why we continue to beat upon
> this subject.

I think that this is a worthwhile topic, and as the moderator I see no
reason to shut down discussion on how unbalanced transactions are
handled in Gnucash


Liz
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[arctostaphylos]

I'm going to repeat, probably, what's already been discussed. I understand
why GnuCash creates the Imbalance account (among a few others, like Orphan
and Equity:Opening Balance). I have no problem with that, and in practice
those accounts have been useful - especially in catching errors. 

I use GC for personal books (and now that my bookkeeper aka significant
other has tried GC to review my records it is generally approved), and also
for a small nonprofit I was drafted as treasurer of (because I admitted that
my IT education included a basic bookkeeping class). For personal books, I
ran GC, for a year or more, in parallel with an ancient system of
spreadsheets that I developed over the decades, and finally converted at the
beginning of this year. That's one thing the family bookkeeper very much
likes: the spreadsheet were always having link problems and imbalance
issues, and GC fixes all that.

The argument seems to be one of appearances: the accounts are useful, but
where they appear in the CoA should be more flexible than it is. I'll never
argue against flexibility (Semper Gumby!), but it works both ways. The
default should be the default, so people and the software know where to
expect things to be. Variations on that should be possible, because various
people and organizations don't do things the same way. That should be the
end of the argument. 

GC is designed (it seems) to be relatively rigid because it didn't start out
as full-fledged accounting software, competing with the Quickbooks and *
Accounting of the world, though it has evolved in that direction. It was
supposed to be simpler, more like Quicken. Either way, it works if you're
not trying to do things that are too complicated for it. Keeping extra
details for some records on the side can be helpful if it's too complicated,
initially, to understand how to make it work right) in GC - stocks & mutual
funds are a good example, for me - and spreadsheets are good for that. But
anyway, my 2c worth, for what it's worth.



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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[nvsoar]

On 06/03/21 11:14, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:



The only problem I have is that it is far too easy (IMO, IME!) to
accidentally create or use Orphan-* and Imbalance-* accounts just by
hitting the tab key one time too many. I'd prefer to be able to set an
option to disable that and to force me to balance the transaction
before leaving it.


You mean by (on the fly) creating an account with a name like 
"Imbalance" (or "Not-yet-assigned") to serve as a placeholder for when 
you don't know where it should go? That anything in there means an 
issue yet to be addressed? Gee, gnucash comes with that built in.


I know if the ONLY books you are keeping under gnucash are informal 
personal books, you might think it easy to just "create an account" on 
the fly. But some of us are keeping more formal books and might need 
to consult with somebody before making that decision. Sometimes it was 
as simple as getting an answer to "what was that item?" in a packet of 
receipts submitted for reimbursements.  Maybe need to get the 
accountant involved, maybe the board of directors, or the owner(s) of 
a business.


Note that "Imbalance"isn't the only sort of special account used to 
hold amounts until resolved. Many. if not most businesses have a 
"Suspense" account used when a payment comes in without necessary 
information to determine "what for". Then somebody's job to resolve 
everything in suspense. Businesses that do not ordinarily handle cash 
(and so not making daily bank deposits) might have an "undeposited 
cash" account to deal with rare cash situations.


Michael D Novack
Roger that.  I use a 'Pending Exchange' account when I haven't  yet 
figured out the situation at hand.
Many thanks and blessings to all who contribute to the health of 
GnuCash.  nvsoar

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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[Michael or Penny Novack]

The only problem I have is that it is far too easy (IMO, IME!) to
accidentally create or use Orphan-* and Imbalance-* accounts just by
hitting the tab key one time too many. I'd prefer to be able to set an
option to disable that and to force me to balance the transaction
before leaving it.


You mean by (on the fly) creating an account with a name like 
"Imbalance" (or "Not-yet-assigned") to serve as a placeholder for when 
you don't know where it should go? That anything in there means an issue 
yet to be addressed? Gee, gnucash comes with that built in.


I know if the ONLY books you are keeping under gnucash are informal 
personal books, you might think it easy to just "create an account" on 
the fly. But some of us are keeping more formal books and might need to 
consult with somebody before making that decision. Sometimes it was as 
simple as getting an answer to "what was that item?" in a packet of 
receipts submitted for reimbursements.  Maybe need to get the accountant 
involved, maybe the board of directors, or the owner(s) of a business.


Note that "Imbalance"isn't the only sort of special account used to hold 
amounts until resolved. Many. if not most businesses have a "Suspense" 
account used when a payment comes in without necessary information to 
determine "what for". Then somebody's job to resolve everything in 
suspense. Businesses that do not ordinarily handle cash (and so not 
making daily bank deposits) might have an "undeposited cash" account to 
deal with rare cash situations.


Michael D Novack



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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[w...@theprescotts.com]

I concur. It seems like this is a too minor an issue to warrant the number of 
posts on the subject. But I guess people feel strongly about it.

Will

On 2021 Jun 3, at 06-03 10:11:22, David T. via gnucash-user 
 wrote:

Given how easy it is to correct these problems (i.e., change the Account in the 
erroneous entry from Imbalance-XXX to some other account and press enter), I 
don't see why we continue to beat upon this subject.

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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[Jack Frillman via gnucash-user]

Maybe because for those new to GNC, like myself, it's not a very 
intuitive process and is easy to screw up.
After two months I still muck it up from time to time especially when 
I'm trying to modify a duplicated transaction that has splits.
I'm not complaining but providing an explanation to your "I don't see 
why we continue to beat upon this subject" comment.


On 6/3/21 11:11 AM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
Given how easy it is to correct these problems (i.e., change the 
Account in the erroneous entry from Imbalance-XXX to some other 
account and press enter), I don't see why we continue to beat upon 
this subject.


On 6/3/2021 10:12 AM, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2021-06-01, DaveC49 wrote:


Laura,

The reason Imbalance entries exist is that it is a fundamental 
principle in

double entry accounting that the sum of the debits and credits to the
various accounts that make up a transaction must be zero.

The Imbalance results if a user creates and saves a transaction in 
which
this is not true. GNuCash tries to force your hand on this. You will 
notice
that if you create a transaction in which the sum of the debits and 
credits
is not zero, GnuCash will open a new line with an amount which will 
balance
that sum with no account selected in the account column. If you 
select an
account to assign that imbalance to, then the transaction is then 
balanced.
If you do not and save the transaction without specifically 
assigning an
account to it, GnuCash will assign the amount by which the 
transaction is
unbalanced to an Imbalance account in the currency of the accounts. 
If the
transaction involves more than one currency it will be in the 
currency which

is imbalanced in the transaction.

The only problem I have is that it is far too easy (IMO, IME!) to
accidentally create or use Orphan-* and Imbalance-* accounts just by
hitting the tab key one time too many. I'd prefer to be able to set an
option to disable that and to force me to balance the transaction
before leaving it.

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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Given how easy it is to correct these problems (i.e., change the Account 
in the erroneous entry from Imbalance-XXX to some other account and 
press enter), I don't see why we continue to beat upon this subject.


On 6/3/2021 10:12 AM, Adam Funk wrote:

On 2021-06-01, DaveC49 wrote:


Laura,

The reason Imbalance entries exist is that it is a fundamental principle in
double entry accounting that the sum of the debits and credits to the
various accounts that make up a transaction must be zero.

The Imbalance results if a user creates and saves a transaction in which
this is not true. GNuCash tries to force your hand on this. You will notice
that if you create a transaction in which the sum of the debits and credits
is not zero, GnuCash will open a new line with an amount which will balance
that sum with no account selected in the account column. If you select an
account to assign that imbalance to, then the transaction is then balanced.
If you do not and save the transaction without specifically assigning an
account to it, GnuCash will assign the amount by which the transaction is
unbalanced to an Imbalance account in the currency of the accounts. If the
transaction involves more than one currency it will be in the currency which
is imbalanced in the transaction.

The only problem I have is that it is far too easy (IMO, IME!) to
accidentally create or use Orphan-* and Imbalance-* accounts just by
hitting the tab key one time too many. I'd prefer to be able to set an
option to disable that and to force me to balance the transaction
before leaving it.

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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[Adam Funk]

On 2021-06-01, DaveC49 wrote:

> Laura,
>
> The reason Imbalance entries exist is that it is a fundamental principle in
> double entry accounting that the sum of the debits and credits to the
> various accounts that make up a transaction must be zero.
>
> The Imbalance results if a user creates and saves a transaction in which
> this is not true. GNuCash tries to force your hand on this. You will notice
> that if you create a transaction in which the sum of the debits and credits
> is not zero, GnuCash will open a new line with an amount which will balance
> that sum with no account selected in the account column. If you select an
> account to assign that imbalance to, then the transaction is then balanced.
> If you do not and save the transaction without specifically assigning an
> account to it, GnuCash will assign the amount by which the transaction is
> unbalanced to an Imbalance account in the currency of the accounts. If the
> transaction involves more than one currency it will be in the currency which
> is imbalanced in the transaction.

The only problem I have is that it is far too easy (IMO, IME!) to
accidentally create or use Orphan-* and Imbalance-* accounts just by
hitting the tab key one time too many. I'd prefer to be able to set an
option to disable that and to force me to balance the transaction
before leaving it.

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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[Stephen M. Butler]

On 6/2/21 2:36 PM, David Carlson wrote:

Stephen,

There have been several posts explaining why it can be desirable to 
allow postponement of the completion of a balanced transaction because 
not all the details are known but the core of the transaction should 
not be postponed into oblivion.


I was responding to the question "Why delete an account that's only 
going to get created again?".  Not commenting on whether or not the 
account should be created as needed.  Yes, most times being more careful 
will eliminate the sudden appearance of the account.  Again, note the 
"most".




On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 4:24 PM Stephen M. Butler 
mailto:stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:


On 6/2/21 11:22 AM, D. via gnucash-user wrote:
> Why delete an account that's only going to get created again?

1.  So you know when something needs attention.
2.  Make you more careful to not let the account be created in the
first
place.

--Steve
>
>
>  Original Message 
> From: Michael Hendry mailto:hendry.mich...@gmail.com>>
> Sent: Wed Jun 02 12:25:39 EDT 2021
> To: Peter West mailto:p...@pbw.id.au>>
> Cc: GnuCash users group mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ??
JUST CURIOUS
>
>> On 2 Jun 2021, at 02:44, Peter West mailto:p...@pbw.id.au>> wrote:
>>
>> I’m a fairly naive user, but I find the Imbalance-XXX and
Orphan-XXX accounts (at top level in my CoA) extremely useful, and
I understand why they are there. If I ever see a balance, I know I
have to fix something, which is a good reason to have them at the
top. I can’t comment on any changes that might have occurred in
the behaviour of these accounts recently. However, in respect of
the tidiness of the CoA, one possible solution is to create a
special case for these accounts, such that they only display in
the CoA listing when they have a non-zero balance.
>>
>> Peter
>
> Why not simply delete the Imbalance and Orphan accounts when
you’ve sorted out the problem and zeroed their contents - they’ll
be created automatically if required.
>
> Michael
>
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[David Cousens]

David,
You have to look at the use cases of a wide range of users Some may have
multiple vehicle and want to track expenses separately for each vehicle for
example. being able to name the accounts the same for each vehicleis a great
benefit They would want be be able to create 2 or more subaccounts named fuel
each undera placeholder for the specific vehicle. Some may have accounts tagged
with a customer's name. Having to have unique names for each account at the leaf
level would likely create difficulties across the board. The path down the
account tree gives you the necessary  level of visual uniqeness and the GUID
assigned to each account is unique so there is no problem with uniquely
identifying a special account.

 What is necessary to implement what David T desires and what appears to have
been the default behaviouris for there to be a pointer to the unique guid of the
imbalance account for each currency in use stored when it is first created and
if GnuCash requires an Imbalance account it searches those pointers before
creating a new one. That way it doesnt matter where the account sits in the  CoA
heirarchy (accounts are not stored internally in a tree structure but are just a
serial linked  lists of data objects with parent and child pointers) so it can
be moved around with impunity and because there is a special pointer to its
guid, located quickly without a tree search.

Since it appears to have been introducedin the changes from 4.4 to 4.5 it should
not be too hard to track down. It is most likely introduced when changes were
made to the code for an unrelated reason. I think David T raised a bug report
and if not he should as that will put it on the radar to be looked at. The
discussion here is useful though as it highlights that a lot of us use Gnucash
in sometimes subtly different ways and sometimes not so subtly different ways
and it gives whoever does the programming information which can help to keep
GnuCash flexible

At the moment, I simply do as Michael Hendry suggested and delete the Imbalance
accounts once I have fixed any problems when they do occur. My accounts in
retirement are pretty simple though and I don't have a large number of errors.

On Wed, 2021-06-02 at 16:05 -0500, David Carlson wrote:
> Since you bring up the concept of reserved names, perhaps any account name
> that Gnucash creates probably should be a reserved name so the entire
> argument about creating accounts with the same name should be moot.  Then
> the previous behavior of allowing it to be moved would not be an issue.
> 
> On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 3:56 PM David Carlson 
> wrote:
> 
> > As David pointed out in his very first post of the other thread. GnuCash
> > has removed an existing function without warning.  Some of us use it and
> > want it back.
> > 
> > On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 3:40 PM Michael or Penny Novack <
> > stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > On 6/2/2021 2:27 PM, D. via gnucash-user wrote:
> > > > The discussion about the location of Imbalance-XXX accounts is under a
> > > different thread, and I explained there my reasons for my account
> > > structure
> > > and Gnucash's previous implementation. Suffice to say that I'd rather keep
> > > Imbalance-USD around (since it will get created all over again), but put
> > > it
> > > in the location of MY choosing.
> > > 
> > > The "location" of an account is, in effect, part of its name, its full
> > > name. You could have half a dozen accounts with the "name" Imbalance as
> > > long as each was a different leaf of the tree (location in the CoA). How
> > > do you propose gnucash to "know" WHICH of these you intend to be used as
> > > the account to use for imbalance situations?
> > > 
> > > What you are asking form in effect, is the ability to specify an account
> > > to be used for the purpose.
> > > 
> > > I know you are thinking, just look for a leaf with name Imbalance. That
> > > could work IF gnucash reserved the name, disallowed you creating an
> > > account with that name. Account names in gnucash do NOT have to be
> > > unique/distinct.  Is it the case that in your own books you do not have
> > > accounts with the same "name" but different leaves of the tree so you
> > > don't see the problem. The developers put Imbalance at the top level of
> > > the tree precisely because that would be unique (could only be one).
> > > 
> > > Michael D Novack
> > > 
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> > --
> > David Carlson
> > 
> 
> 
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