subject:"Re\: \[H\] Dell Laptop Batteries"


Oh sorry didn't mean to make your opinions unwelcome.

Ben Ruset wrote:


So the only opinions welcome here are pro-whitebox anti-Dell rants?

You want a crappy Dell story? Look at my blog - http://www.benruset.com 
- Dell sent me a new laptop to replace the absolute fucking lemon they 
sent me 9 months ago. But, at least they sent me a new laptop.


joeuser wrote:


So I can now counter with a crappy dell story?

I give; you win. Dell rules!


Ben Ruset wrote:

I needed to buy two Opteron capable servers with PCI slots. I finally 
found one that had both PCI-X and PCI. It was an Asus.


So when we got it in, I noticed that it only came with a PCI-X riser. 
I went back and forth with Asus "support" who finally gave up and 
said that they had no part # for a PCI riser card. We had to 
communicate through email because I could not, for the life of me, 
understand him through his Asian accent.


After much trial and error I finally found some guy on the internet 
who had risers that worked with those servers.


That's my pretty crappy whitebox support story. And the whitebox 
itself (no processors, drives, or RAM) was $1000+.


joeuser wrote:


I'd have to say white boxes are quality PC's for the most part.
I'm not blindly anti-dell, my eyes are wide open. Not all home brew 
PC's are quality, I would say for the most part they are. You won't 
get me to swear on anything or deal in absolutes except to say Dell 
sucks.










--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

My 8700c is the greatest thing since sliced bread (imho). ;)

I rarely sit at my damn pc and it keeps me up to date with multiple serves in a 
flash :). I was really torn between it and the Cingular 8125 but I really 
didn't like the wince design function as well. Too much crap not enough purpose

CW
Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  

-Original Message-
From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:44:53 
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> The kind of support someone gets with a dell in a corporate agreement is 
> significantly different then what you get as jo blo home user or worst case 
> Dell-bought-at-big-box-store buyer

Not necessarily. It took a lot of bitching, whining, letters to Mike 
Dell, and posts on my blog to get Dell to deal with my laptop problem. 
While the laptop is mine, and not my companies, it's still listed under 
our customer number.

> I've got a small business client who buys nothing but dell and that's cool 
> until Dell ripped them apart verbally on the phone over a laptop with 
> pci-express port instead of pcmcai (which I posted here)

Why they are switching over to Express card when there are not many 
Express card devices out there, I have no idea.

> Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  

Have you worn out your blackberry's keyboard yet? :)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


The kind of support someone gets with a dell in a corporate agreement is 
significantly different then what you get as jo blo home user or worst case 
Dell-bought-at-big-box-store buyer


Not necessarily. It took a lot of bitching, whining, letters to Mike 
Dell, and posts on my blog to get Dell to deal with my laptop problem. 
While the laptop is mine, and not my companies, it's still listed under 
our customer number.



I've got a small business client who buys nothing but dell and that's cool 
until Dell ripped them apart verbally on the phone over a laptop with 
pci-express port instead of pcmcai (which I posted here)


Why they are switching over to Express card when there are not many 
Express card devices out there, I have no idea.


Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  


Have you worn out your blackberry's keyboard yet? :)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Oh I agree on IBM nothing but positive about big blue to say for server 
support. And Sun. I would deal with either of those two in a minute, both have 
been ungodly good in their support of clinicians for me

Realize a lot of negative for Dell comes from how they handle Peon home user 1 
pc owner

The kind of support someone gets with a dell in a corporate agreement is 
significantly different then what you get as jo blo home user or worst case 
Dell-bought-at-big-box-store buyer

I've got a small business client who buys nothing but dell and that's cool 
until Dell ripped them apart verbally on the phone over a laptop with 
pci-express port instead of pcmcai (which I posted here)

Every business has faults. I would put Dell way ahead of some boxes behind 
others but everyone has their own experience. Hey, we can all agree they aren't 
powerspec or emachine or somethink of that ilk :)

CW

Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  

-Original Message-
From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:28:44 
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED], The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

It wasn't a board. It was a the RS161-E2/PA2 1U barebones server. 
Nowehere did it mention anything about 1) not coming with that riser or 
2) that Asus would have no idea what riser to use. And to be honest, if 
I was using the board that you used, and it was in the manual, the tech 
telling me to go fuck myself and RTFM would have been acceptable. This 
guy took 2 days to research it, then got back to me saying he had no idea.

That was after I had another tech email me this:

"Each system comes with the riser card, if your system did not come with 
it; we will need the Serial Number and pictures (of riser card area) and 
forward to our factory. Unfortunately the “riser card” is not easily 
replaced, as it should be in your system. We have no other option but to 
replace your systems entirely. Sorry for any inconvenience this may 
cause your or your customer."

I went with this system over the Tyan GT-20 because the rack rails that 
come in the GT-20 absolutely SUCK to deal with. The next server I had to 
build was made with a GT-20, and I just had one of my minions deal with 
the rails.

It wasn't so much a matter of accents, as the feeling like I was on the 
phone with some bench tech somewhere. Seriously, it was the most 
unprofessional experience I have had with any vendors support.

So far the best support experience I have had with is with Apple when I 
had to get a new drive for my old ipod. The second best vendor is IBM - 
they are pretty chill to deal with, but then again we are an IBM 
Partner, and have a metric ton of IBM kit in our racks. Dell is the 3rd.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I don't know though that's partly bad research on your part. That information 
> regarding the riser is in the pdf on their website...  I've built with that 
> board
> 
> And if you needed this configuration you probably could have saved heartache 
> going with a supermicro or tyan prebuild or just had the build speced by Boxx 
> or Racksaver etc. :)
> 
> Yes I understand the issue with accents but its funny when most non-corporate 
> clients deal with that from every major vendor right now
> 
> CW
> 
> Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:05:58 
> To:The Hardware List 
> Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries
> 
> I needed to buy two Opteron capable servers with PCI slots. I finally 
> found one that had both PCI-X and PCI. It was an Asus.
> 
> So when we got it in, I noticed that it only came with a PCI-X riser. I 
> went back and forth with Asus "support" who finally gave up and said 
> that they had no part # for a PCI riser card. We had to communicate 
> through email because I could not, for the life of me, understand him 
> through his Asian accent.
> 
> After much trial and error I finally found some guy on the internet who 
> had risers that worked with those servers.
> 
> That's my pretty crappy whitebox support story. And the whitebox itself 
> (no processors, drives, or RAM) was $1000+.
> 
> joeuser wrote:
>> I'd have to say white boxes are quality PC's for the most part.
>> I'm not blindly anti-dell, my eyes are wide open. Not all home brew PC's 
>> are quality, I would say for the most part they are. You won't get me to 
>> swear on anything or deal in absolutes except to say Dell sucks.
>>
> 
>

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

It wasn't a board. It was a the RS161-E2/PA2 1U barebones server. 
Nowehere did it mention anything about 1) not coming with that riser or 
2) that Asus would have no idea what riser to use. And to be honest, if 
I was using the board that you used, and it was in the manual, the tech 
telling me to go fuck myself and RTFM would have been acceptable. This 
guy took 2 days to research it, then got back to me saying he had no idea.


That was after I had another tech email me this:

"Each system comes with the riser card, if your system did not come with 
it; we will need the Serial Number and pictures (of riser card area) and 
forward to our factory. Unfortunately the “riser card” is not easily 
replaced, as it should be in your system. We have no other option but to 
replace your systems entirely. Sorry for any inconvenience this may 
cause your or your customer."


I went with this system over the Tyan GT-20 because the rack rails that 
come in the GT-20 absolutely SUCK to deal with. The next server I had to 
build was made with a GT-20, and I just had one of my minions deal with 
the rails.


It wasn't so much a matter of accents, as the feeling like I was on the 
phone with some bench tech somewhere. Seriously, it was the most 
unprofessional experience I have had with any vendors support.


So far the best support experience I have had with is with Apple when I 
had to get a new drive for my old ipod. The second best vendor is IBM - 
they are pretty chill to deal with, but then again we are an IBM 
Partner, and have a metric ton of IBM kit in our racks. Dell is the 3rd.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I don't know though that's partly bad research on your part. That information 
regarding the riser is in the pdf on their website...  I've built with that 
board

And if you needed this configuration you probably could have saved heartache 
going with a supermicro or tyan prebuild or just had the build speced by Boxx 
or Racksaver etc. :)

Yes I understand the issue with accents but its funny when most non-corporate 
clients deal with that from every major vendor right now

CW

Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  


-Original Message-
From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:05:58 
To:The Hardware List 

Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I needed to buy two Opteron capable servers with PCI slots. I finally 
found one that had both PCI-X and PCI. It was an Asus.


So when we got it in, I noticed that it only came with a PCI-X riser. I 
went back and forth with Asus "support" who finally gave up and said 
that they had no part # for a PCI riser card. We had to communicate 
through email because I could not, for the life of me, understand him 
through his Asian accent.


After much trial and error I finally found some guy on the internet who 
had risers that worked with those servers.


That's my pretty crappy whitebox support story. And the whitebox itself 
(no processors, drives, or RAM) was $1000+.


joeuser wrote:

I'd have to say white boxes are quality PC's for the most part.
I'm not blindly anti-dell, my eyes are wide open. Not all home brew PC's 
are quality, I would say for the most part they are. You won't get me to 
swear on anything or deal in absolutes except to say Dell sucks.

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I don't know though that's partly bad research on your part. That information 
regarding the riser is in the pdf on their website...  I've built with that 
board

And if you needed this configuration you probably could have saved heartache 
going with a supermicro or tyan prebuild or just had the build speced by Boxx 
or Racksaver etc. :)

Yes I understand the issue with accents but its funny when most non-corporate 
clients deal with that from every major vendor right now

CW

Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  

-Original Message-
From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:05:58 
To:The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I needed to buy two Opteron capable servers with PCI slots. I finally 
found one that had both PCI-X and PCI. It was an Asus.

So when we got it in, I noticed that it only came with a PCI-X riser. I 
went back and forth with Asus "support" who finally gave up and said 
that they had no part # for a PCI riser card. We had to communicate 
through email because I could not, for the life of me, understand him 
through his Asian accent.

After much trial and error I finally found some guy on the internet who 
had risers that worked with those servers.

That's my pretty crappy whitebox support story. And the whitebox itself 
(no processors, drives, or RAM) was $1000+.

joeuser wrote:
> I'd have to say white boxes are quality PC's for the most part.
> I'm not blindly anti-dell, my eyes are wide open. Not all home brew PC's 
> are quality, I would say for the most part they are. You won't get me to 
> swear on anything or deal in absolutes except to say Dell sucks.
>

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


So the only opinions welcome here are pro-whitebox anti-Dell rants?

You want a crappy Dell story? Look at my blog - http://www.benruset.com 
- Dell sent me a new laptop to replace the absolute fucking lemon they 
sent me 9 months ago. But, at least they sent me a new laptop.


joeuser wrote:

So I can now counter with a crappy dell story?

I give; you win. Dell rules!


Ben Ruset wrote:

I needed to buy two Opteron capable servers with PCI slots. I finally 
found one that had both PCI-X and PCI. It was an Asus.


So when we got it in, I noticed that it only came with a PCI-X riser. 
I went back and forth with Asus "support" who finally gave up and said 
that they had no part # for a PCI riser card. We had to communicate 
through email because I could not, for the life of me, understand him 
through his Asian accent.


After much trial and error I finally found some guy on the internet 
who had risers that worked with those servers.


That's my pretty crappy whitebox support story. And the whitebox 
itself (no processors, drives, or RAM) was $1000+.


joeuser wrote:


I'd have to say white boxes are quality PC's for the most part.
I'm not blindly anti-dell, my eyes are wide open. Not all home brew 
PC's are quality, I would say for the most part they are. You won't 
get me to swear on anything or deal in absolutes except to say Dell 
sucks.

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


So I can now counter with a crappy dell story?

I give; you win. Dell rules!


Ben Ruset wrote:

I needed to buy two Opteron capable servers with PCI slots. I finally 
found one that had both PCI-X and PCI. It was an Asus.


So when we got it in, I noticed that it only came with a PCI-X riser. I 
went back and forth with Asus "support" who finally gave up and said 
that they had no part # for a PCI riser card. We had to communicate 
through email because I could not, for the life of me, understand him 
through his Asian accent.


After much trial and error I finally found some guy on the internet who 
had risers that worked with those servers.


That's my pretty crappy whitebox support story. And the whitebox itself 
(no processors, drives, or RAM) was $1000+.


joeuser wrote:


I'd have to say white boxes are quality PC's for the most part.
I'm not blindly anti-dell, my eyes are wide open. Not all home brew 
PC's are quality, I would say for the most part they are. You won't 
get me to swear on anything or deal in absolutes except to say Dell 
sucks.






--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries





The printer market isn't a bad one to be in. OEM the components from 
Lexmark, then sell the ink online. Just like every other company 
now, the profit on the printer comes from the ink. It's almost like 
free money. As long as the amount of money it takes to manage that 
supply chain is less than the profit the chain makes, then it's a 
good decision for them to make.


Free money?  Ink sales have dropped like software sales 
recently.  Many (possibly most) people buy a new printer everytime 
they run out of ink.  I think the inkjet market is an even better 
area to see the failure of the race to bottom mentality.  The funny 
part is that we are supposedly in a reduce/reuse/recycle world.


T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I needed to buy two Opteron capable servers with PCI slots. I finally 
found one that had both PCI-X and PCI. It was an Asus.


So when we got it in, I noticed that it only came with a PCI-X riser. I 
went back and forth with Asus "support" who finally gave up and said 
that they had no part # for a PCI riser card. We had to communicate 
through email because I could not, for the life of me, understand him 
through his Asian accent.


After much trial and error I finally found some guy on the internet who 
had risers that worked with those servers.


That's my pretty crappy whitebox support story. And the whitebox itself 
(no processors, drives, or RAM) was $1000+.


joeuser wrote:

I'd have to say white boxes are quality PC's for the most part.
I'm not blindly anti-dell, my eyes are wide open. Not all home brew PC's 
are quality, I would say for the most part they are. You won't get me to 
swear on anything or deal in absolutes except to say Dell sucks.

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


I'd have to say white boxes are quality PC's for the most part.
I'm not blindly anti-dell, my eyes are wide open. Not all home brew PC's 
are quality, I would say for the most part they are. You won't get me to 
swear on anything or deal in absolutes except to say Dell sucks.



Ben Ruset wrote:


Yet in your last email you said "Not Dell."

So what is it? Are you just blindly anti-Dell, or do you dislike all non 
homebrew/mom & pop PC's?


joeuser wrote:


I'd agree with that.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


For chain manufacture dell is as good as any
Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless -Original Message-
From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:05:19 To:The Hardware List 


Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Who makes a quality computer?

joeuser wrote:

I would hope so, since I don't think anyone considers Dell as 
quality. Save for Dell zealots. They don't count. Let them drink 
Kool Aid!












--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

We buy low-end Dimensions (Dimension 3100's) for our developers. I get 
them with 2GB of RAM, load my Windows image + VMware Workstation on 
them, and send them on their way.


So far, 0 failures. I could give a rats ass if they have cheap power 
supplies. None have failed, and even if one did, a Dell tech would be 
here the next day with a replacement. For less than $1000 I am getting a 
3ghz P4 EM64T, 80gb SATA drive, 2GB of RAM, 17" LCD, WinXP, and MS 
Office Basic Edition, with a 2 year on-site warranty. That's including 
tax and shipping. My developers don't need anything better.


Dell only keeps about 7 days worth of inventory on hand. Those 40gb 
drives in their machines rolled off a truck sometime the week that 
system was built. Dell has no warehouses with inventory. I am sure they 
have parts on hand to fix broken machines, but that's about it. It's 
cheaper for Dell to optimize their supply chain than keep inventory on hand.


http://www.tmi.umich.edu/dell.pdf

I find supply chain management and logistics very interesting.

The printer market isn't a bad one to be in. OEM the components from 
Lexmark, then sell the ink online. Just like every other company now, 
the profit on the printer comes from the ink. It's almost like free 
money. As long as the amount of money it takes to manage that supply 
chain is less than the profit the chain makes, then it's a good decision 
for them to make. Bad for the HP's and Epson's of the world, but hey, 
it's a free market.


[Chris Reeves] 
One thing that I want to point out, though is that dell's newer "cheap"

boxes really are POS.  I find almost nothing to separate them out from
eMachines.  They are basically uber-cheap boxes with low end power supplies,
bargain basement ram, no software to speak of except piled up with
advertisement ware (Earthlink 6 Months!, AOL Six Months! And so forth) and
basically discontinued HDDs.  What the hell is Dell doing shipping any box
with a 40GB HDD right now?  Except eliminating inventory.

That's Dell's issue.  They've built up a fair inventory and debt that they
are going to struggle with.  Screw the batteries, it's the ability to pawn
off all the old PentiumD processors they are holding at a price that doesn't
make them eat their lunch.  It's the ability to flog warehouses of HDDs,
CDRW/DVDROM combo drives that are passé amongst whiteboxers.

That's Dell's big task.

I really don't mind Dell in the higher end market segment or in servers.
But I've had numerous people with customer support nightmare phonecalls on
cheap nothing PCs that don't provide them spit.  Dell also went into some
market segments it should have stayed out of (Printers?)

Dell is a better manufacturer then many, but that's a little bit like saying
you can drool more then other lobotomy patients.

Dell's high end and server segment is solid.  Their low end (read: sub $500
PCs) are garbage.  And you get what you pay for.

RE: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

2006-08-17 Thread Chris Reeves

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Ruset
> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 2:52 PM
> To: The Hardware List
> Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries
> 
> Thane Sherrington wrote:
> 
> > You do know they are one of the largest computer manufacturers in the
> > world?
> 
> Sure do. Ask the common person on the street. "Who is Acer?"
> 
> > Affordable is one thing.  Cheap to the point of low margins eroding
> > quality and service is another.  Dell is in the latter camp.
> 
> Build quality? Customer service quality?
> 
> Dell has acknowledged that their CS quality largely sucks. They're
> working on fixing that. I have found that a lot of IT companies have
> just as poor, if not worse, support than Dell. The fact that they have
> acknowledged this and are working to fix it gives them high marks in my
> book.

[Chris Reeves] 
One thing that I want to point out, though is that dell's newer "cheap"
boxes really are POS.  I find almost nothing to separate them out from
eMachines.  They are basically uber-cheap boxes with low end power supplies,
bargain basement ram, no software to speak of except piled up with
advertisement ware (Earthlink 6 Months!, AOL Six Months! And so forth) and
basically discontinued HDDs.  What the hell is Dell doing shipping any box
with a 40GB HDD right now?  Except eliminating inventory.

That's Dell's issue.  They've built up a fair inventory and debt that they
are going to struggle with.  Screw the batteries, it's the ability to pawn
off all the old PentiumD processors they are holding at a price that doesn't
make them eat their lunch.  It's the ability to flog warehouses of HDDs,
CDRW/DVDROM combo drives that are passé amongst whiteboxers.

That's Dell's big task.

I really don't mind Dell in the higher end market segment or in servers.
But I've had numerous people with customer support nightmare phonecalls on
cheap nothing PCs that don't provide them spit.  Dell also went into some
market segments it should have stayed out of (Printers?)

Dell is a better manufacturer then many, but that's a little bit like saying
you can drool more then other lobotomy patients.

Dell's high end and server segment is solid.  Their low end (read: sub $500
PCs) are garbage.  And you get what you pay for.

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


Thane Sherrington wrote:

You do know they are one of the largest computer manufacturers in the 
world?


Sure do. Ask the common person on the street. "Who is Acer?"

Affordable is one thing.  Cheap to the point of low margins eroding 
quality and service is another.  Dell is in the latter camp.


Build quality? Customer service quality?

Dell has acknowledged that their CS quality largely sucks. They're 
working on fixing that. I have found that a lot of IT companies have 
just as poor, if not worse, support than Dell. The fact that they have 
acknowledged this and are working to fix it gives them high marks in my 
book.


And they've skimped on quality and QC, as is clear illustrated in 
battery issue.  Will they address that too?  And if so, will it save 
them?  Selling on price is one of the worst worlds to be in.  Anyone can 
take that away from you.


Well, six batteries failed out of how many millions shipped? Seems to me 
that that's a pretty good track record.


And yes, they are addressing it too. This is a voluntary recall.

Computers are a commodity product now. The only way to mass market sell 
them is based on price. Even Apple realized that, which is why the 
prices of new Mac's are much lower than they were before.


-ben

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

2006-08-17 Thread Steve

I do, we have a variety of IBM, HP and Dell laptops, mostly Dell and they 
are the most reliable out of the three.  HP are very poor in particular. 
Laptops are throw away items these days - bin them after 3 years and move 
on, Dell in part have made that possible !  (This is corporate market, not 
home user trying to eek out 15 years from a laptop !)


Dell servers in the 2/4 CPU market are fantastic, unbeatable, load them up, 
stick them in a rack and leave them, perfect, do just what they say on the 
tin.  Cheap too, much easier to buy then IBM or HP, pita.  Dell support in 
UK is great too.


I specify and buy Dell laptops and servers every week and Dell, so far, have 
never let me down and have saved me a fortune against IBM..




- Original Message - 
From: "joeuser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


I would hope so, since I don't think anyone considers Dell as quality. Save 
for Dell zealots. They don't count. Let them drink Kool Aid!




[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Most of the people I know who buy and recomend Dells will certainly not 
be

put off in the slightest by this.

They buy Dell for reasons other then quality.

Regards,

Jason Tozer
Database Analyst
London
Ext 1131 - 3SC.5


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--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)


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Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

When I was looking at notebooks I was considering the Asus W7V, which 
looks like a (hardware based) clone of the Macbook. The Lenovo books 
seem ok. I had a 17" widescreen Toshiba that was stable, but only had a 
90 day warranty and came with way too much bloatware.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I admit I really do like the acer and lenovo notebooks, more then dell that is. 
Very negative on Toshiba though... What pieces of crap

Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  


-Original Message-
From: Thane Sherrington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:27:17 
To:The Hardware List 

Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

At 01:04 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
I don't know how much I would believe that it's because the battery 
is located too close to a heat source, since the new Apple notebooks 
are well known for heat problems and none of them have toasted yet.


Well, I'm dealing with Dell laptop after Dell laptop that runs 
insanely hot (too hot to put on one's lap after five minutes.)  Never 
used an Apple laptop, so I can't compare, but my Acer, while warm 
after 45 minutes of being on my lap, is still bearable.


T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Its slightly different;

Intel made a mistake in their R&D

Dell had years of open market R&D at other people's expense as consumer 
complaints about offshoring support came under fire as early as 2002

Dell had the research they new they result and they made the decision. Then 
afterward they decide it was a mistake :)

Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  

-Original Message-
From: "Hayes Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:14:31 
To:hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Kinda like that Intel pentium bug.


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], The Hardware List 
>
>To: "The Hardware List" 
>Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries
>Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:08:04 +
>
>Its nice to give them credit for an effort to fix it. Nicer if they hadn't 
>broke it in the first place :)
>
>
>Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:01:16
>To:The Hardware List 
>Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries
>
>I lump Acer in with the whitebox category.
>
>Since when has making a product affordable been a bad thing?
>
>They have used a variety of tactics to lower the price of their gear.
>They have mastered keeping a minimum amount of inventory on hand to
>operate. They have very low overhead compared to a lot of other vendors
>who operate stores, etc.
>
>They have skimped on support. According to Dell they're addressing that
>problem. It's rare for a company to come out and say "we suck and we're
>trying to fix it" which to me is pretty refreshing.
>
>Thane Sherrington wrote:
> > At 03:05 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
> >> Who makes a quality computer?
> >
> > I'm very happy with Acer.  And the whiteboxes I sell are excellent.
> >
> > Before we start saying "All major brands sell crap today" we have to
> > remember the Dell spearheaded the rush to the lowest possible price* and
> > that's when the quality and service dropped off the cliff.  Dell is the
> > Walmart of the computer world.  Too stupid to teach customers how to buy
> > a good quality computer (or too scared to let them see how bad their's
> > were) Dell went the route of the bottom feeder and pushed price only.
> > The other manufacturers (admittedly, also too lazy to educate customers)
> > tried for awhile to compete on quality over price but failed to teach
> > customers how to understand quality.  Price is a easy thing to compare,
> > and given nothing else, customers bought the cheapest thing they could.
> > Sure they bitched about quality and service, but they consoled
> > themselves by thinking that every company was the same.  If Dell goes,
> > then perhaps Acer, HP and Lenovo will start thinking that a $1500-$2000
> > computer with good quality components and support by English speakers
> > would be better for everyone and the industry will right itself.
> >
> > *While not the first to take this route, they were the most successful.
> >
> > T
> >
>

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


At 04:01 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:

I lump Acer in with the whitebox category.


You do know they are one of the largest computer manufacturers in the world?


Since when has making a product affordable been a bad thing?


Affordable is one thing.  Cheap to the point of low margins eroding 
quality and service is another.  Dell is in the latter camp.


They have skimped on support. According to Dell they're addressing 
that problem. It's rare for a company to come out and say "we suck 
and we're trying to fix it" which to me is pretty refreshing.


And they've skimped on quality and QC, as is clear illustrated in 
battery issue.  Will they address that too?  And if so, will it save 
them?  Selling on price is one of the worst worlds to be in.  Anyone 
can take that away from you.


T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

2006-08-17 Thread Hayes Elkins


Kinda like that Intel pentium bug.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], The Hardware List 


To: "The Hardware List" 
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:08:04 +

Its nice to give them credit for an effort to fix it. Nicer if they hadn't 
broke it in the first place :)



Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless

-Original Message-
From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:01:16
To:The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I lump Acer in with the whitebox category.

Since when has making a product affordable been a bad thing?

They have used a variety of tactics to lower the price of their gear.
They have mastered keeping a minimum amount of inventory on hand to
operate. They have very low overhead compared to a lot of other vendors
who operate stores, etc.

They have skimped on support. According to Dell they're addressing that
problem. It's rare for a company to come out and say "we suck and we're
trying to fix it" which to me is pretty refreshing.

Thane Sherrington wrote:
> At 03:05 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
>> Who makes a quality computer?
>
> I'm very happy with Acer.  And the whiteboxes I sell are excellent.
>
> Before we start saying "All major brands sell crap today" we have to
> remember the Dell spearheaded the rush to the lowest possible price* and
> that's when the quality and service dropped off the cliff.  Dell is the
> Walmart of the computer world.  Too stupid to teach customers how to buy
> a good quality computer (or too scared to let them see how bad their's
> were) Dell went the route of the bottom feeder and pushed price only.
> The other manufacturers (admittedly, also too lazy to educate customers)
> tried for awhile to compete on quality over price but failed to teach
> customers how to understand quality.  Price is a easy thing to compare,
> and given nothing else, customers bought the cheapest thing they could.
> Sure they bitched about quality and service, but they consoled
> themselves by thinking that every company was the same.  If Dell goes,
> then perhaps Acer, HP and Lenovo will start thinking that a $1500-$2000
> computer with good quality components and support by English speakers
> would be better for everyone and the industry will right itself.
>
> *While not the first to take this route, they were the most successful.
>
> T
>

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Its nice to give them credit for an effort to fix it. Nicer if they hadn't 
broke it in the first place :)


Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  

-Original Message-
From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:01:16 
To:The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I lump Acer in with the whitebox category.

Since when has making a product affordable been a bad thing?

They have used a variety of tactics to lower the price of their gear. 
They have mastered keeping a minimum amount of inventory on hand to 
operate. They have very low overhead compared to a lot of other vendors 
who operate stores, etc.

They have skimped on support. According to Dell they're addressing that 
problem. It's rare for a company to come out and say "we suck and we're 
trying to fix it" which to me is pretty refreshing.

Thane Sherrington wrote:
> At 03:05 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
>> Who makes a quality computer?
> 
> I'm very happy with Acer.  And the whiteboxes I sell are excellent.
> 
> Before we start saying "All major brands sell crap today" we have to 
> remember the Dell spearheaded the rush to the lowest possible price* and 
> that's when the quality and service dropped off the cliff.  Dell is the 
> Walmart of the computer world.  Too stupid to teach customers how to buy 
> a good quality computer (or too scared to let them see how bad their's 
> were) Dell went the route of the bottom feeder and pushed price only.  
> The other manufacturers (admittedly, also too lazy to educate customers) 
> tried for awhile to compete on quality over price but failed to teach 
> customers how to understand quality.  Price is a easy thing to compare, 
> and given nothing else, customers bought the cheapest thing they could.  
> Sure they bitched about quality and service, but they consoled 
> themselves by thinking that every company was the same.  If Dell goes, 
> then perhaps Acer, HP and Lenovo will start thinking that a $1500-$2000 
> computer with good quality components and support by English speakers 
> would be better for everyone and the industry will right itself.
> 
> *While not the first to take this route, they were the most successful.
> 
> T
>

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


I lump Acer in with the whitebox category.

Since when has making a product affordable been a bad thing?

They have used a variety of tactics to lower the price of their gear. 
They have mastered keeping a minimum amount of inventory on hand to 
operate. They have very low overhead compared to a lot of other vendors 
who operate stores, etc.


They have skimped on support. According to Dell they're addressing that 
problem. It's rare for a company to come out and say "we suck and we're 
trying to fix it" which to me is pretty refreshing.


Thane Sherrington wrote:

At 03:05 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:

Who makes a quality computer?


I'm very happy with Acer.  And the whiteboxes I sell are excellent.

Before we start saying "All major brands sell crap today" we have to 
remember the Dell spearheaded the rush to the lowest possible price* and 
that's when the quality and service dropped off the cliff.  Dell is the 
Walmart of the computer world.  Too stupid to teach customers how to buy 
a good quality computer (or too scared to let them see how bad their's 
were) Dell went the route of the bottom feeder and pushed price only.  
The other manufacturers (admittedly, also too lazy to educate customers) 
tried for awhile to compete on quality over price but failed to teach 
customers how to understand quality.  Price is a easy thing to compare, 
and given nothing else, customers bought the cheapest thing they could.  
Sure they bitched about quality and service, but they consoled 
themselves by thinking that every company was the same.  If Dell goes, 
then perhaps Acer, HP and Lenovo will start thinking that a $1500-$2000 
computer with good quality components and support by English speakers 
would be better for everyone and the industry will right itself.


*While not the first to take this route, they were the most successful.

T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Hayes - agree on the live chat. I will say Sun and IBM have been great to work 
with in many of the environs I'm in

CW
Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  

-Original Message-
From: "Hayes Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:51:37 
To:hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

When anybody asks about what computer to buy, I just tell them to price out 
the cheapest dell possible and then tac on the three year in home service 
warranty. Desktops are all the same commodity crap from taiwan, it's the 
service that you want. Not sure what strides HP has made with their retail 
store brand of desktops, but for a while nothing touched Dell.

As far as servers go (which are about as commoditized as desktops at this 
point) I still go with Dell as the support champ, well gold support at 
least. Technicians generally know their stuff and you are talking to 
somebody in the country without a thick accent. I do however like how HP now 
uses live chat support to mask their thick-accented outsourcing. As I said 
before, I think Indian support staff generally have better typed grammar 
than most americans, lol.

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

2006-08-17 Thread Hayes Elkins

When anybody asks about what computer to buy, I just tell them to price out 
the cheapest dell possible and then tac on the three year in home service 
warranty. Desktops are all the same commodity crap from taiwan, it's the 
service that you want. Not sure what strides HP has made with their retail 
store brand of desktops, but for a while nothing touched Dell.


As far as servers go (which are about as commoditized as desktops at this 
point) I still go with Dell as the support champ, well gold support at 
least. Technicians generally know their stuff and you are talking to 
somebody in the country without a thick accent. I do however like how HP now 
uses live chat support to mask their thick-accented outsourcing. As I said 
before, I think Indian support staff generally have better typed grammar 
than most americans, lol.

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

2006-08-17 Thread Hayes Elkins


***z

Huh what? People actually arguing about desktop vendors who push the same 
cheap commodity crap all from the same taiwanese plant?


***z



From: joeuser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:48:40 -0500

I would hope so, since I don't think anyone considers Dell as quality. Save 
for Dell zealots. They don't count. Let them drink Kool Aid!




[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Most of the people I know who buy and recomend Dells will certainly not be
put off in the slightest by this.

They buy Dell for reasons other then quality.

Regards,

Jason Tozer
Database Analyst
London
Ext 1131 - 3SC.5


***

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For further information about Clifford Chance please see our website at 
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This firm is not authorised by the Financial Services Authority.  However, 
we are included on the Register maintained by the Financial Services 
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--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I admit I really do like the acer and lenovo notebooks, more then dell that is. 
Very negative on Toshiba though... What pieces of crap

Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  

-Original Message-
From: Thane Sherrington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:27:17 
To:The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

At 01:04 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
>I don't know how much I would believe that it's because the battery 
>is located too close to a heat source, since the new Apple notebooks 
>are well known for heat problems and none of them have toasted yet.

Well, I'm dealing with Dell laptop after Dell laptop that runs 
insanely hot (too hot to put on one's lap after five minutes.)  Never 
used an Apple laptop, so I can't compare, but my Acer, while warm 
after 45 minutes of being on my lap, is still bearable.

T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


Yet in your last email you said "Not Dell."

So what is it? Are you just blindly anti-Dell, or do you dislike all non 
homebrew/mom & pop PC's?


joeuser wrote:

I'd agree with that.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


For chain manufacture dell is as good as any
Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless 
-Original Message-

From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:05:19 To:The Hardware List 


Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Who makes a quality computer?

joeuser wrote:

I would hope so, since I don't think anyone considers Dell as 
quality. Save for Dell zealots. They don't count. Let them drink Kool 
Aid!

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


At 03:05 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:

Who makes a quality computer?


I'm very happy with Acer.  And the whiteboxes I sell are excellent.

Before we start saying "All major brands sell crap today" we have to 
remember the Dell spearheaded the rush to the lowest possible price* 
and that's when the quality and service dropped off the cliff.  Dell 
is the Walmart of the computer world.  Too stupid to teach customers 
how to buy a good quality computer (or too scared to let them see how 
bad their's were) Dell went the route of the bottom feeder and pushed 
price only.  The other manufacturers (admittedly, also too lazy to 
educate customers) tried for awhile to compete on quality over price 
but failed to teach customers how to understand quality.  Price is a 
easy thing to compare, and given nothing else, customers bought the 
cheapest thing they could.  Sure they bitched about quality and 
service, but they consoled themselves by thinking that every company 
was the same.  If Dell goes, then perhaps Acer, HP and Lenovo will 
start thinking that a $1500-$2000 computer with good quality 
components and support by English speakers would be better for 
everyone and the industry will right itself.


*While not the first to take this route, they were the most successful.

T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


HURRR!

joeuser wrote:

Not Dell.

Ben Ruset wrote:


Who makes a quality computer?

joeuser wrote:

I would hope so, since I don't think anyone considers Dell as 
quality. Save for Dell zealots. They don't count. Let them drink Kool 
Aid!

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


Just google for "Macbook heat problems."

My old Inspiron 700m, which was covered under the warranty, had it's 
battery stick out the back. It was a good 4" away from where the 
processor is, and even farther from the hard drive. So I don't think 
it's heat related.


Both the 700m and now the XPS M1210 that replaced it run cool enough for 
me to not be bothered to have it on my lap.


Thane Sherrington wrote:

At 01:04 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
I don't know how much I would believe that it's because the battery is 
located too close to a heat source, since the new Apple notebooks are 
well known for heat problems and none of them have toasted yet.


Well, I'm dealing with Dell laptop after Dell laptop that runs insanely 
hot (too hot to put on one's lap after five minutes.)  Never used an 
Apple laptop, so I can't compare, but my Acer, while warm after 45 
minutes of being on my lap, is still bearable.


T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


I'd agree with that.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


For chain manufacture dell is as good as any
Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  


-Original Message-
From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:05:19 
To:The Hardware List 

Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Who makes a quality computer?

joeuser wrote:

I would hope so, since I don't think anyone considers Dell as quality. 
Save for Dell zealots. They don't count. Let them drink Kool Aid!







--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


Not Dell.

Ben Ruset wrote:


Who makes a quality computer?

joeuser wrote:

I would hope so, since I don't think anyone considers Dell as quality. 
Save for Dell zealots. They don't count. Let them drink Kool Aid!






--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


At 01:25 PM 17/08/2006, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:



Thane Sherrington wrote:

From what I read, Sony makes batteries to spec for various customers.
The batteries come in two basic configurations, and one of those 
tends to overheat when placed close to a heat source in the 
laptop.  Is Sony at fault for the model Dell spec'd out and the way 
Dell installed in their laptop?


Yes.


Huh?

T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


At 01:04 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
I don't know how much I would believe that it's because the battery 
is located too close to a heat source, since the new Apple notebooks 
are well known for heat problems and none of them have toasted yet.


Well, I'm dealing with Dell laptop after Dell laptop that runs 
insanely hot (too hot to put on one's lap after five minutes.)  Never 
used an Apple laptop, so I can't compare, but my Acer, while warm 
after 45 minutes of being on my lap, is still bearable.


T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


At 01:03 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
I don't put enough faith in the average customer to remember this 
recall 2 weeks from now.


Who still remembers the huge recall Toyota did not too long ago? Did 
Toyota's stop flying off dealer lots?


Good point.  But I'll be doing my best to remind everyone. :)

T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

For chain manufacture dell is as good as any
Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  

-Original Message-
From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:05:19 
To:The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Who makes a quality computer?

joeuser wrote:
> I would hope so, since I don't think anyone considers Dell as quality. 
> Save for Dell zealots. They don't count. Let them drink Kool Aid!

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


Who makes a quality computer?

joeuser wrote:
I would hope so, since I don't think anyone considers Dell as quality. 
Save for Dell zealots. They don't count. Let them drink Kool Aid!

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I would hope so, since I don't think anyone considers Dell as quality. 
Save for Dell zealots. They don't count. Let them drink Kool Aid!




[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Most of the people I know who buy and recomend Dells will certainly not be
put off in the slightest by this.

They buy Dell for reasons other then quality.

Regards,

Jason Tozer
Database Analyst
London
Ext 1131 - 3SC.5


***

This message and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or 
otherwise protected from disclosure.  If you are not the intended recipient, 
please telephone or email the sender and delete this message and any attachment 
from your system.  If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy this 
message or attachment or disclose the contents to any other person.

For further information about Clifford Chance please see our website at 
http://www.cliffordchance.com or refer to any Clifford Chance office.

This firm is not authorised by the Financial Services Authority.  However, we 
are included on the Register maintained by the Financial Services Authority so 
that we can carry on insurance mediation activity in the UK, which is broadly 
the advising on, selling and administration of insurance contracts.  This part 
of our business, including arrangements for complaints or redress if something 
goes wrong, is regulated by The Law Society.   The Register can be accessed via 
the Financial Services Authority website at www.fsa.gov.uk/register.




--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

It's the beginning of the end.

"Just last month, Dell warned that for its fiscal second quarter ended
Aug. 4, it expected earnings per share to be 21 cents to 23 cents, down
44 percent to 49 percent from the year-earlier period and substantially
below analysts' estimates of 32 cents per share. Dell said its fiscal
second-quarter revenue should reach $14 billion, up 4.3 percent from
second-quarter 2005 but below analysts' expectations of $14.2 billion.

Dell blamed the shortfall on "aggressive pricing in a slowing commercial
market worldwide." But analysts and some customers say there are other
things contributing to company's shortfall, namely service and technical
glitches.

Cindy Shaw, vice president of research, computer hardware and services
at Moors & Cabot, an equity research firm in San Francisco, said in a
report last month, "We are reducing estimates and our price target to
reflect increasing concern about Dell's customer experience challenges
and ability to succeed given current market trends."

Shaw, in the report, said she was responding in part to a Better
Business Bureau (BBB) report that for every PC or printer sold to a U.S.
consumer, a Dell customer is about 2.5 times as likely to complain to
the BBB as a Gateway customer and possibly 16 times as likely as an HP
customer. "

http://www.crn.com/sections/coverstory/coverstory.jhtml?articleId=191901795&printableArticle=true

I can't find the graphic but Dells' sales are waning by the day.

Ben Ruset wrote:

Uhm, there is nothing in the WSJ today, and in fact Dell's share prices
are up 1/2 point right now.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=DELL

Historical: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=DELL

DateOpenHighLowCloseVolumeAdj
16-Aug-0622.1322.8821.8022.7332,107,70022.73
15-Aug-0621.4122.2021.3922.0826,268,60022.08
14-Aug-0621.3721.9521.1121.2423,928,90021.24
11-Aug-0620.9021.3020.7421.0721,720,90021.07
10-Aug-0621.0621.2520.8820.9917,882,20020.99

But hey, this is THG! Lets all bash Dell because it's the cool thing to do!

joeuser wrote:

The writing is on the wall Ben. Temporary? Read your periodicals.

--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

The Ford Explorer was, up until 2005, still the best selling SUV. And 
those had a very public recall a few years ago.


IBM sold their drive biz to Fujitsu because the market sucks. Even 
Fujitsu realized that because they recently stopped making drives.


Remember, IBM offloaded their entire PC/notebook biz - and their 
notebooks at least are well known for their quality.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

In large part though things like a toyota recall are counterbalanced by the 
fact other manufacturers are constantly doing recalls

So people don't look at it the same

Here's a better comparison: IBM had to do a major hard drive recall after a 
large number of deskstars basically went into the crapper

What happened to their hdd business?

CW

Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  


-Original Message-
From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:03:15 
To:The Hardware List 

Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I don't put enough faith in the average customer to remember this recall 
2 weeks from now.


Who still remembers the huge recall Toyota did not too long ago? Did 
Toyota's stop flying off dealer lots?




Thane Sherrington wrote:

At 12:16 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
Except that the recall isn't costing Dell anything. Sony is picking up 
the tab.
You think the average customer isn't thinking "I don't want a Dell 
laptop because it might catch fire and burn down my house?"  The cost of 
perception is worse than the cost of replacing batteries.


T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Well, I guess we'll have to wait and see. I don't see people out in the 
streets yelling "Don't buy a Dell, it will catch on fire!" I don't see 
their stock going down. They're being proactive with recalling these 
batteries instead of letting the problem work itself out.





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I think this will have more impact then just stock market assessment today

Dell has had a good public pr image whether this is Dell's fault or Sony's 
doesn't matter it's a PR hit for Dell in the same sense that 'Unsafe at any 
speed' made a signifant impact on domestic cars

This incident now also links Dell, not Sony with a lack of quality control 
which people will remember

CW
Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  


-Original Message-
From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:56:23 
To:The Hardware List 

Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Uhm, there is nothing in the WSJ today, and in fact Dell's share prices 
are up 1/2 point right now.


http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=DELL

Historical: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=DELL

DateOpenHighLow Close   Volume  Adj
16-Aug-06   22.13   22.88   21.80   22.73   32,107,700  22.73
15-Aug-06   21.41   22.20   21.39   22.08   26,268,600  22.08
14-Aug-06   21.37   21.95   21.11   21.24   23,928,900  21.24
11-Aug-06   20.90   21.30   20.74   21.07   21,720,900  21.07
10-Aug-06   21.06   21.25   20.88   20.99   17,882,200  20.99

But hey, this is THG! Lets all bash Dell because it's the cool thing to do!

joeuser wrote:

The writing is on the wall Ben. Temporary? Read your periodicals.

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

2006-08-17 Thread Anthony Q. Martin




Thane Sherrington wrote:
From what I read, Sony makes batteries to spec for various customers.  
The batteries come in two basic configurations, and one of those tends 
to overheat when placed close to a heat source in the laptop.  Is Sony 
at fault for the model Dell spec'd out and the way Dell installed in 
their laptop?




Yes.

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

In large part though things like a toyota recall are counterbalanced by the 
fact other manufacturers are constantly doing recalls

So people don't look at it the same

Here's a better comparison: IBM had to do a major hard drive recall after a 
large number of deskstars basically went into the crapper

What happened to their hdd business?

CW

Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  

-Original Message-
From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:03:15 
To:The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I don't put enough faith in the average customer to remember this recall 
2 weeks from now.

Who still remembers the huge recall Toyota did not too long ago? Did 
Toyota's stop flying off dealer lots?



Thane Sherrington wrote:
> At 12:16 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
>> Except that the recall isn't costing Dell anything. Sony is picking up 
>> the tab.
> 
> You think the average customer isn't thinking "I don't want a Dell 
> laptop because it might catch fire and burn down my house?"  The cost of 
> perception is worse than the cost of replacing batteries.
> 
> T
>

RE: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

2006-08-17 Thread Jason . Tozer

Most of the people I know who buy and recomend Dells will certainly not be
put off in the slightest by this.

They buy Dell for reasons other then quality.

Regards,

Jason Tozer
Database Analyst
London
Ext 1131 - 3SC.5


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Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

According to the last article I read, sony was now blaming it on Dell's 
charging system.


I don't know how much I would believe that it's because the battery is 
located too close to a heat source, since the new Apple notebooks are 
well known for heat problems and none of them have toasted yet.


Thane Sherrington wrote:

At 12:27 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
Well, what was it specifically about Dell laptops that makes Sony 
batteries fail?


 From what I read, Sony makes batteries to spec for various customers.  
The batteries come in two basic configurations, and one of those tends 
to overheat when placed close to a heat source in the laptop.  Is Sony 
at fault for the model Dell spec'd out and the way Dell installed in 
their laptop?


T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I think this will have more impact then just stock market assessment today

Dell has had a good public pr image whether this is Dell's fault or Sony's 
doesn't matter it's a PR hit for Dell in the same sense that 'Unsafe at any 
speed' made a signifant impact on domestic cars

This incident now also links Dell, not Sony with a lack of quality control 
which people will remember

CW
Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  

-Original Message-
From: Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:56:23 
To:The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Uhm, there is nothing in the WSJ today, and in fact Dell's share prices 
are up 1/2 point right now.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=DELL

Historical: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=DELL

DateOpenHighLow Close   Volume  Adj
16-Aug-06   22.13   22.88   21.80   22.73   32,107,700  22.73
15-Aug-06   21.41   22.20   21.39   22.08   26,268,600  22.08
14-Aug-06   21.37   21.95   21.11   21.24   23,928,900  21.24
11-Aug-06   20.90   21.30   20.74   21.07   21,720,900  21.07
10-Aug-06   21.06   21.25   20.88   20.99   17,882,200  20.99

But hey, this is THG! Lets all bash Dell because it's the cool thing to do!

joeuser wrote:
> The writing is on the wall Ben. Temporary? Read your periodicals.

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I don't put enough faith in the average customer to remember this recall 
2 weeks from now.


Who still remembers the huge recall Toyota did not too long ago? Did 
Toyota's stop flying off dealer lots?




Thane Sherrington wrote:

At 12:16 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
Except that the recall isn't costing Dell anything. Sony is picking up 
the tab.


You think the average customer isn't thinking "I don't want a Dell 
laptop because it might catch fire and burn down my house?"  The cost of 
perception is worse than the cost of replacing batteries.


T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I think the office for super cheap bit is over as part of the agreement with 
the feds. That's why now everyone just supplies that bs 60 day trial of ms 
office

CW

Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless  

-Original Message-
From: joeuser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:54:25 
To:The Hardware List 
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Well volume helps but then again so does buying Windows and Office at a 
buck a copy or whatever. Replacement parts are also where they make 
money. HP is picking up Dell slack now. The computer is personal again.
LOL YEAH. Push 1 for sales Push 2 for Technical support, etc etc.

Thane Sherrington wrote:

> At 11:10 AM 17/08/2006, joeuser wrote:
> 
>> Dell's going down the shitter also. This is just the tip of the 
>> iceberg. CRN magazine had a little write up. I stripped naked and 
>> danced around a pile of Dell catalogs and a laptop like a wild indian 
>> in celebration.
> 
> 
> LOL!  I love it.  I think I'll do that too. :)
> 
> You can only sell so many computers at a $50 profit and expect to 
> survive.  They (and all the other bottom feeders) are idiots.  You can 
> sell a donut with no customer service for no markup, but computers just 
> don't work that way.  The race to the bottom always ends with the 
> company splattering against the ground.
> 
> T
> 

-- 
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Uhm, there is nothing in the WSJ today, and in fact Dell's share prices 
are up 1/2 point right now.


http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=DELL

Historical: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=DELL

DateOpenHighLow Close   Volume  Adj
16-Aug-06   22.13   22.88   21.80   22.73   32,107,700  22.73
15-Aug-06   21.41   22.20   21.39   22.08   26,268,600  22.08
14-Aug-06   21.37   21.95   21.11   21.24   23,928,900  21.24
11-Aug-06   20.90   21.30   20.74   21.07   21,720,900  21.07
10-Aug-06   21.06   21.25   20.88   20.99   17,882,200  20.99

But hey, this is THG! Lets all bash Dell because it's the cool thing to do!

joeuser wrote:

The writing is on the wall Ben. Temporary? Read your periodicals.

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


At 12:16 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
Except that the recall isn't costing Dell anything. Sony is picking 
up the tab.


You think the average customer isn't thinking "I don't want a Dell 
laptop because it might catch fire and burn down my house?"  The cost 
of perception is worse than the cost of replacing batteries.


T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


At 12:27 PM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
Well, what was it specifically about Dell laptops that makes Sony 
batteries fail?


From what I read, Sony makes batteries to spec for various 
customers.  The batteries come in two basic configurations, and one 
of those tends to overheat when placed close to a heat source in the 
laptop.  Is Sony at fault for the model Dell spec'd out and the way 
Dell installed in their laptop?


T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Well volume helps but then again so does buying Windows and Office at a 
buck a copy or whatever. Replacement parts are also where they make 
money. HP is picking up Dell slack now. The computer is personal again.

LOL YEAH. Push 1 for sales Push 2 for Technical support, etc etc.

Thane Sherrington wrote:


At 11:10 AM 17/08/2006, joeuser wrote:

Dell's going down the shitter also. This is just the tip of the 
iceberg. CRN magazine had a little write up. I stripped naked and 
danced around a pile of Dell catalogs and a laptop like a wild indian 
in celebration.



LOL!  I love it.  I think I'll do that too. :)

You can only sell so many computers at a $50 profit and expect to 
survive.  They (and all the other bottom feeders) are idiots.  You can 
sell a donut with no customer service for no markup, but computers just 
don't work that way.  The race to the bottom always ends with the 
company splattering against the ground.


T



--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

I ever tell you about that Eddie Murphy deal, he talks about being 
starved in the desert and someone gives him a saltine cracker. He says, 
"OMG is this a Ritz? This is the best damn cracker I have ever eaten"


Customer service (Lack thereof) is one of the things that is killing 
Dell. They are doing the right thing but I wouldn't call it top notch. 
Then again, I eat mostly Ritz crackers.



Ben Ruset wrote:

Well, what was it specifically about Dell laptops that makes Sony 
batteries fail?


Dell doesn't make the battery. Dell barely makes the laptop. They are 
being proactive and doing a massive recall.


I am not a huge Dell fan anymore, but I think that what they are doing 
is top notch customer service.


Thane Sherrington wrote:


At 11:21 AM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:

One would hope that the ODM who actually build the laptops would also 
go down the shitter as well.



Why?  If Dell specified crap, then it's all their fault.

T



joeuser wrote:

Dell's going down the shitter also. This is just the tip of the 
iceberg. CRN magazine had a little write up. I stripped naked and 
danced around a pile of Dell catalogs and a laptop like a wild 
indian in celebration.




__ NOD32 1.1712 (20060817) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com








--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


The writing is on the wall Ben. Temporary? Read your periodicals.

Ben Ruset wrote:

Except that the recall isn't costing Dell anything. Sony is picking up 
the tab.


Any drop in their share price will be temporary.

Thane Sherrington wrote:


LOL!  I love it.  I think I'll do that too. :)

You can only sell so many computers at a $50 profit and expect to 
survive.  They (and all the other bottom feeders) are idiots.  You can 
sell a donut with no customer service for no markup, but computers 
just don't work that way.  The race to the bottom always ends with the 
company splattering against the ground.





--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Well, what was it specifically about Dell laptops that makes Sony 
batteries fail?


Dell doesn't make the battery. Dell barely makes the laptop. They are 
being proactive and doing a massive recall.


I am not a huge Dell fan anymore, but I think that what they are doing 
is top notch customer service.


Thane Sherrington wrote:

At 11:21 AM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
One would hope that the ODM who actually build the laptops would also 
go down the shitter as well.


Why?  If Dell specified crap, then it's all their fault.

T



joeuser wrote:
Dell's going down the shitter also. This is just the tip of the 
iceberg. CRN magazine had a little write up. I stripped naked and 
danced around a pile of Dell catalogs and a laptop like a wild indian 
in celebration.



__ NOD32 1.1712 (20060817) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Except that the recall isn't costing Dell anything. Sony is picking up 
the tab.


Any drop in their share price will be temporary.

Thane Sherrington wrote:


LOL!  I love it.  I think I'll do that too. :)

You can only sell so many computers at a $50 profit and expect to 
survive.  They (and all the other bottom feeders) are idiots.  You can 
sell a donut with no customer service for no markup, but computers just 
don't work that way.  The race to the bottom always ends with the 
company splattering against the ground.

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


At 11:21 AM 17/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
One would hope that the ODM who actually build the laptops would 
also go down the shitter as well.


Why?  If Dell specified crap, then it's all their fault.

T



joeuser wrote:
Dell's going down the shitter also. This is just the tip of the 
iceberg. CRN magazine had a little write up. I stripped naked and 
danced around a pile of Dell catalogs and a laptop like a wild 
indian in celebration.



__ NOD32 1.1712 (20060817) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries


At 11:10 AM 17/08/2006, joeuser wrote:
Dell's going down the shitter also. This is just the tip of the 
iceberg. CRN magazine had a little write up. I stripped naked and 
danced around a pile of Dell catalogs and a laptop like a wild 
indian in celebration.


LOL!  I love it.  I think I'll do that too. :)

You can only sell so many computers at a $50 profit and expect to 
survive.  They (and all the other bottom feeders) are idiots.  You 
can sell a donut with no customer service for no markup, but 
computers just don't work that way.  The race to the bottom always 
ends with the company splattering against the ground.


T

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

One would hope that the ODM who actually build the laptops would also go 
down the shitter as well.


joeuser wrote:
Dell's going down the shitter also. This is just the tip of the iceberg. 
CRN magazine had a little write up. I stripped naked and danced around a 
pile of Dell catalogs and a laptop like a wild indian in celebration.

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

Dell's going down the shitter also. This is just the tip of the iceberg. 
CRN magazine had a little write up. I stripped naked and danced around a 
pile of Dell catalogs and a laptop like a wild indian in celebration.


Neil Davidson wrote:


Don't know about Dell, but the Sony stock price dropped yesterday according
to the BBC News 24. 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Thane Sherrington

Sent: 17 August 2006 09:54
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

At 11:53 PM 16/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:

Except that the same batteries are in various other manufacturer's 
laptops. Dell is the only company to come forward and admit 


there is a 


problem, so far.


But according to what I've read, a lot depends on the battery 
configuration (which is probably a Dell decision) and the 
position in the laptop (also a Dell decision, and given how 
poorly they cool their laptops, I can understand why the 
batteries blow up.)


It will be interesting to see if there are further recalls.  
Does this hurt Dell or damage Sony?



T 







--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

RE: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries

2006-08-17 Thread Neil Davidson

Don't know about Dell, but the Sony stock price dropped yesterday according
to the BBC News 24. 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Thane Sherrington
> Sent: 17 August 2006 09:54
> To: The Hardware List
> Subject: Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries
> 
> At 11:53 PM 16/08/2006, Ben Ruset wrote:
> >Except that the same batteries are in various other manufacturer's 
> >laptops. Dell is the only company to come forward and admit 
> there is a 
> >problem, so far.
> 
> But according to what I've read, a lot depends on the battery 
> configuration (which is probably a Dell decision) and the 
> position in the laptop (also a Dell decision, and given how 
> poorly they cool their laptops, I can understand why the 
> batteries blow up.)
> 
> It will be interesting to see if there are further recalls.  
> Does this hurt Dell or damage Sony?
> 
> 
> T 
>

Re: [H] Dell Laptop Batteries