Re: [hlds] whining s
At least then I wouldn't have to sift through 100+ e-mails of 99% garbage every single day. So hard to get any useful information out of this; Seriously. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Arg! Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:18 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] whining s perhaps this mailing list should become a moderated forum instead. On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Ferenc Kovacs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:09 AM, steve grout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > can we please please please stop this thread it really isnt going > > anywhere. The only way this will get resolved is by mailing valve > > support themselves not on this mailing list. afaik this list is for > > questions relating to server setup and issues people are having, (before > > you go off on one) given the fact that there are no such documents > > released by valve when a game is released..if ever. > > > > Keeping this discussion alive on here is now pointless. Not everyone is > > going to agree with each other, which they are entitled to do and given > > that you make a few good points and come across well you are starting to > > harm your argument by carrying it on. Get in-touch with valve. > > > > Ok lets agree to end it (oops i said the 'agree' word) > > > > Kitteny Berk wrote: > > > Can someone drop me an email once all this shit is done with. > > > > > > The list is completely useless to anyone needing any support right now, > > > It's not worth staying subscribed. > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > I think we should delist the custom servers from the internet tab. > That should silence the l4d trolls. :) > > Tyrael > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? (shoskins73)
http://left4dead411.com/ You will need to go back through the news stories, and may be embedded in a multi-topic story headline, for the most recent mention of it from Chet Faliszek. The original mention of them working on the servers and related connection issues was back when the demo was out, and stated they hoped for a release "next week" (obviously didn't happen), which take into effect "Valve Time"...it could be any time. Sorry but I dont have a link as someone linked it on forums somewhere. But I seem to recall the response was from the mailing lists here. Around the 12th of Nov. Sean On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 6:52 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > -- > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:21:06 -0800 > > From: shoskins73 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > >files? > > > > Fact is, Valve have already publicly stated (when the demo was out) and > > again by Chet Faliszek that they are aware of the issues, they are > working > > to implement the Server Browser and surrounding functionality back into > the > > game while maintaining the Lobby system. So your statement here is > in-fact > > incorrect. Do they want to use the Lobby system, yes. Do they want to > > stiff Server admins and the community overall? No. > > > > This is great news, if true. Do you have any links? > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? (shoskins73)
> > > -- > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:21:06 -0800 > From: shoskins73 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg >files? > > Fact is, Valve have already publicly stated (when the demo was out) and > again by Chet Faliszek that they are aware of the issues, they are working > to implement the Server Browser and surrounding functionality back into the > game while maintaining the Lobby system. So your statement here is in-fact > incorrect. Do they want to use the Lobby system, yes. Do they want to > stiff Server admins and the community overall? No. > This is great news, if true. Do you have any links? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] L4D working server.cfg for Public server
Thank you! On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:41 PM, shoskins73 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi folks, seems a lot of negativity going around, figured I'd post > something > that may help a few. And if Valve by some chance haven't already figured > out > the problem and are working towards a fix for the problem I outline below, > this just might help them as well. > > Below is a server.cfg (with notes added) that I am currently running > without > issue on my Public server. > It allows Lobby connections to find the server, regardless of game mode and > the server will load the proper map, game mode and set # of players all > correctly. Also allows connection to the server via Server Browser. > Players changing the game settings via the Call A Vote function will not > effectively "break the server" if they change it from Versus mode to > Campaign (see Answer below). > > Copy and paste the below server.cfg, define the hostname and rcon_password, > set the mapcycle.txt file and you should have a working public server. > I'm not convinced the mapcycle.txt couldn't just be empty, as the server > still loaded a Campaign from a Lobby when the mapname wasn't listed. > > Q. How do I setup a server with a specified to Campaign or Versus only? > > A. That would be controlled by the cvar director_no_human_zombies (0 = > Versus, 1= Campaign), however currently Lobby connections looking for a > Campaign will connect to Versus servers and change the server settings > based > upon the Lobby Game Settings. However the Lobby Connection does not seem > to > change the cvar director_no_human_zombies, which results in the server > running as 4/8 players and AI Infected will not spawn for that campaign. > This can also be broken via the Call A Vote function if Versus is defined > in > the server.cfg and Campaign mode is called by vote. > > This server.cfg is intended to allow the Lobby Game Settings defined by the > players to control what the server does for them. > > Hope this helps some folks. Good luck. > > Sean (Puscifer on Steam) > > - > // server.cfg > > hostname "Left 4 Dead Server" > > rcon_password " " // Defines Rcon password > > exec banned_user.cfg > exec banned_ip.cfg > > // sv_password " " // Define this if you want to prevent Lobby Connections. > Only thos ewith the password can join with this defined. > // z_difficulty Hard // Do not enable this unless server is locked from > Lobby Connections or will be micromanaged > // director_no_human_zombies 0 // Do not enable this unless server is > locked from Lobby Connections or will be micromanaged > > sv_allow_lobby_connect_only 0 // 0 allows connection via Server Browser > sv_steamgroup " " // Steam Group # is available on the Group Admin page in > Steam Community > sv_steamgroup_exclusive 0 // 1 would restrict server connection to only > your defined Steam Group. > > mp_disable_autokick 1 // Player using Take A Break function to go idle > they > won't be kicked > sv_cheats 0 > sv_consistency 1 > sv_contact > sv_downloadurl > > sv_voiceenable 1 > sv_alltalk 0 > sv_voicequality 5 > sv_voicecodec vaudio_speex > > sv_region 1 > sv_maxupdaterate 120 > sv_minupdaterate 20 > sv_unlag 1 > sv_maxunlag .5 > > sv_log_onefile 0 > sv_logbans 1 > > setmaster add 68.142.72.250:27011 > setmaster add 72.165.61.189:27011 > > - > // mapcycle.txt > > l4d_vs_farm01_hilltop > l4d_vs_hospital01_apartment > l4d_airport01_greenhouse > l4d_smalltown01_caves > l4d_hospital01_apartment > l4d_farm01_hilltop > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] L4D working server.cfg for Public server
Hi folks, seems a lot of negativity going around, figured I'd post something that may help a few. And if Valve by some chance haven't already figured out the problem and are working towards a fix for the problem I outline below, this just might help them as well. Below is a server.cfg (with notes added) that I am currently running without issue on my Public server. It allows Lobby connections to find the server, regardless of game mode and the server will load the proper map, game mode and set # of players all correctly. Also allows connection to the server via Server Browser. Players changing the game settings via the Call A Vote function will not effectively "break the server" if they change it from Versus mode to Campaign (see Answer below). Copy and paste the below server.cfg, define the hostname and rcon_password, set the mapcycle.txt file and you should have a working public server. I'm not convinced the mapcycle.txt couldn't just be empty, as the server still loaded a Campaign from a Lobby when the mapname wasn't listed. Q. How do I setup a server with a specified to Campaign or Versus only? A. That would be controlled by the cvar director_no_human_zombies (0 = Versus, 1= Campaign), however currently Lobby connections looking for a Campaign will connect to Versus servers and change the server settings based upon the Lobby Game Settings. However the Lobby Connection does not seem to change the cvar director_no_human_zombies, which results in the server running as 4/8 players and AI Infected will not spawn for that campaign. This can also be broken via the Call A Vote function if Versus is defined in the server.cfg and Campaign mode is called by vote. This server.cfg is intended to allow the Lobby Game Settings defined by the players to control what the server does for them. Hope this helps some folks. Good luck. Sean (Puscifer on Steam) - // server.cfg hostname "Left 4 Dead Server" rcon_password " " // Defines Rcon password exec banned_user.cfg exec banned_ip.cfg // sv_password " " // Define this if you want to prevent Lobby Connections. Only thos ewith the password can join with this defined. // z_difficulty Hard // Do not enable this unless server is locked from Lobby Connections or will be micromanaged // director_no_human_zombies 0 // Do not enable this unless server is locked from Lobby Connections or will be micromanaged sv_allow_lobby_connect_only 0 // 0 allows connection via Server Browser sv_steamgroup " " // Steam Group # is available on the Group Admin page in Steam Community sv_steamgroup_exclusive 0 // 1 would restrict server connection to only your defined Steam Group. mp_disable_autokick 1 // Player using Take A Break function to go idle they won't be kicked sv_cheats 0 sv_consistency 1 sv_contact sv_downloadurl sv_voiceenable 1 sv_alltalk 0 sv_voicequality 5 sv_voicecodec vaudio_speex sv_region 1 sv_maxupdaterate 120 sv_minupdaterate 20 sv_unlag 1 sv_maxunlag .5 sv_log_onefile 0 sv_logbans 1 setmaster add 68.142.72.250:27011 setmaster add 72.165.61.189:27011 - // mapcycle.txt l4d_vs_farm01_hilltop l4d_vs_hospital01_apartment l4d_airport01_greenhouse l4d_smalltown01_caves l4d_hospital01_apartment l4d_farm01_hilltop ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 9, Issue 262
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:31:23 -0500 From: "Mike O'Laughlen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? "The whole approach to the game was to allow the players to control the dynamics of their sessions. TF2 and other games in the past were geared towards the server admins. L4D lobbies solve a lot of issues." Oh, wow. Are you seriously saying this is a good idea? The guys who own the very infrastructure that Valve depends upon are just supposed to give up control of their computers?? How on Earth did anyone at Valve ever think this was a good idea? lol Sigh. OK, I know what I have to do, then. If I want to run co-op servers only, I'm going to have to take one or more of several steps: 1. My L4D servers that are set to public will probably go private. 2. The Versus maps have to come off the hard drive. 3. Auto update has to be disabled. If I want to run versus servers only, step 2 becomes remove the co-op maps. What an awkward, clumsy way to handle what should have been a simple game mechanic. Heck, it would have been trivially easy for another variable or two to be added to the lobby system. One to indicate co-op or versus mode could have been a simple Boolean response from a lobby query would have made this transparent to both server admins and players alike. I'll keep my handful of L4Dservers on my hardware up for the time being. However, I'm going to think long and hard about how I want to promote them beyond my circle of friends. Also, I'm going to think long and hard about whether or not I choose to host another Valve game. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Heck, even quake1 and quakeworld came with some type of documentation. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Karl Weckstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've been at this for 10 years at least, starting with LMCTF on Quake 2. > > Compare valve's documentation to any of the quake releases. All relevant > CVARs were documented *SOMEWHERE* when it was released, usually with the > dedicated server package. Some on idsoftware's website. They included > various configs for different game modes. > > Look at COD4. Out of the box, the standard config for a ranked server lists > all the cvars and what they do. You could put up a ranked server in 10 > minutes. > > I've seen better documentation come from mod developers than this. It's > inexcusable, and it's totally not what I would expect from a company like > valve. Dissent is EXACTLY what valve needs to break this habit. > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Gottlieb > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:58 PM > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > files? > > How long have you been working with dedicated server? > No company his implemented a huge support system and documentation that > people seem to be begging for. > > While I understand that documentation would help, just deal with it. This > listserv and SRCDS.com and other sites are working together as a community. > > Yes, it's bad. Yes, it's hard. But yelling that valve is some type of > devil is just wrong. > > ~ Matt > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Patrick Shelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >wrote: > > > To you 'fanboys' defending valves lack of product documentation - > > > > Through valves complacency you've basically been conditioned to think > this > > is normal, as a web developer i can assure you this is NOT how products > are > > rolled out. > > > > When companies release a product, it is industry standard to release full > > product support and documentation. > > > > When we release a new module for our in house content management system, > > this is what we do, and heres why we do it: > > > > 1) It cuts support requests drastically > > > > 2) it shows the customer that the comapny they are dealing with are > > professionals they can rely on. > > > > 3) it generates trust and repeat business. > > > > If i were to build an app or website for a client, do you think it would > be > > ok to just tell them 'there it is - work it out for yourselves and if you > > can, chuck up some stuff on a wiki and let others know' > > > > Rubbish - i wouldnt last 5 mins. > > > > I mean, look at the sv_steam_group_exclusive 2 thread! It was > conjecture, > > but as no reliable documentation was involved, you had admins actually > > trying exclusive 2 thinking it was concrete. > > > > This is NOT how you roll out new products. > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
I totally disagree. I have (or currently do) host(ed) those games. There are sample configs with documented cvars, particularly in the case of COD4. All cvars for Quake3 were documented well (though some didn't work). Ut2k had all SORTS of documented configs, like Instagib, Onslaught, etc. Not sure how you can say this L4D business is "on par" with any of those releases. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Gottlieb Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:19 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg) Documentation for Source Dedicated Server has always been bad. What makes you think that valve is hiding something? If you need help, talk to the community. Both this listserv and srcds.comare great tools. Get used to it. Documentation is bad. Releases are never smooth. Plugins break. Do you know of another Dedicated Server community that has better official documentation? Because it's not any better for CoD4 or UT2k4 or Quake3. ~ Matt On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Karl Weckstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It isn't my job to start a wiki page or write valve's documentation. It's > THEIR job. Not ours. To defend their lack of documentation is simply absurd. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike O'Laughlen > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:57 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server > instructions and server.cfg) > > Yeah this thread has become unhelpful to anyone but yourself. I don't even > see what your problem is except complaining that the Internets aren't > structured enough for you. > > Furthermore, some of these new cvars such as sv_steamgroup and > sv_steamgroup_exclusive were added to the product just before release, so > any documentation would have be kept up to date. Admins are typically > technically savvy and able to google for this information. And the > attitude > that you need to be compensated to create the appropriate documentation is > bollocks. > > Here's a document on all the cvars (sans sv_steamgroup) > http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf > > If that doesn't help, start a wiki page for l4d cvars/guide. You can even > add a link from the Valve developer wiki (not sure if it's the appropriate > wiki since its geared towards the SDK devs... but whatever): > > http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Left_4_dead > > > > > > I'm *not* supporting L4D until Valve gets their act together. I made > the > > > decision a day or two after release and numerous frustrating attempts > to > > get > > > it behaving the way I wanted. > > > > > > To say "If you can't figure it out, then you shouldn't be a server > > > operator" doesn't carry *ANY* weight with me. That's simply a childish > > jab > > > at best and an excuse for valve at worst. > > > > > > There is no substitute for proper documentation. <---Read that. Now > read > > it > > > again. Keep reading it until you understand what it means. > > > > > > Everyone on this list should be *EXPECTING* proper documentation for > this > > > product. Not begging for it or relying on the few people who managed to > > > kinda-sorta figure it out. It's half-assed, and I expect better from > > Valve. > > > I blindly believed that Valve would do right by server ops. I won't > > blindly > > > believe that anymore. > > > > > > Call me a whiner. Call me an attention-craver. I don't care. I *will* > > voice > > > my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it. > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
I've been at this for 10 years at least, starting with LMCTF on Quake 2. Compare valve's documentation to any of the quake releases. All relevant CVARs were documented *SOMEWHERE* when it was released, usually with the dedicated server package. Some on idsoftware's website. They included various configs for different game modes. Look at COD4. Out of the box, the standard config for a ranked server lists all the cvars and what they do. You could put up a ranked server in 10 minutes. I've seen better documentation come from mod developers than this. It's inexcusable, and it's totally not what I would expect from a company like valve. Dissent is EXACTLY what valve needs to break this habit. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Gottlieb Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:58 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? How long have you been working with dedicated server? No company his implemented a huge support system and documentation that people seem to be begging for. While I understand that documentation would help, just deal with it. This listserv and SRCDS.com and other sites are working together as a community. Yes, it's bad. Yes, it's hard. But yelling that valve is some type of devil is just wrong. ~ Matt On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Patrick Shelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > To you 'fanboys' defending valves lack of product documentation - > > Through valves complacency you've basically been conditioned to think this > is normal, as a web developer i can assure you this is NOT how products are > rolled out. > > When companies release a product, it is industry standard to release full > product support and documentation. > > When we release a new module for our in house content management system, > this is what we do, and heres why we do it: > > 1) It cuts support requests drastically > > 2) it shows the customer that the comapny they are dealing with are > professionals they can rely on. > > 3) it generates trust and repeat business. > > If i were to build an app or website for a client, do you think it would be > ok to just tell them 'there it is - work it out for yourselves and if you > can, chuck up some stuff on a wiki and let others know' > > Rubbish - i wouldnt last 5 mins. > > I mean, look at the sv_steam_group_exclusive 2 thread! It was conjecture, > but as no reliable documentation was involved, you had admins actually > trying exclusive 2 thinking it was concrete. > > This is NOT how you roll out new products. > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
It's yet to be seen if Valve is willing or able to make L4D community-friendly. It is not community-friendly as it stands right now and there is insufficient documentation and/or sample configuration files to make it so to my liking. I put my money where my mouth is. I took L4D down. And it will stay down until they make improvements to it that make it community-friendly. L4D, in essence, is a mindless console game with some stuff duct-taped onto it in an obvious effort to not annoy their biggest userbase. It didn't work, at least not for me. It's ok to release something that's mindless fun. I'm sure Valve's made plenty of money with this title. But a community game it ain't. Maybe they'll make it friendly, but I have my doubts. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J T Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 7:14 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:21 PM, shoskins73 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You can bitch and complain and whine but nothing will happen. Shut off > your > > servers or make them all private so no from the lobby can join. If you > don't > > take down your server, then you're not even standing up for what you're > > blurting out over and over like an idiot. > > While I don't agree with throwing a tantrum and threatening to shut down a > server and never buy a Valve game...your comments are no better. Most > people will have rented servers. We still have 3 weeks left on the first > month of service. So just shutting down the server may not be an option. > My comments were directed to his attitude towards Valve, he should be following through with his "actions/threats" not talking about them and not doing anything. > > > The fact is, the lobby is what valved wanted for the game. It stiffs > server > > administrators that own servers and want to build a community around > their > > servers. This isn't going to change from the looks of it, so instead of > > talking about, do something about it. > > Fact is, Valve have already publicly stated (when the demo was out) and > again by Chet Faliszek that they are aware of the issues, they are working > to implement the Server Browser and surrounding functionality back into the > game while maintaining the Lobby system. So your statement here is in-fact > incorrect. Do they want to use the Lobby system, yes. Do they want to > stiff Server admins and the community overall? No. > > The server browser exists, it wasn't fully removed. Hidden, yes. However we haven't seen anything that suggests it will get any better. And we still don't if the changes they make, or rather the functionality they back will be what everyone was looking for. > > I like the game, I have my server and I can join it whenever I feel like > it > > within 10 minutes. > > a) Why would it take you 10 minutes to join your server? Well, typically I have to check what server has open slots. And sometimes I will have to wait for someone to drop or will have to restart one of my servers and take the password off. Depending. I'll be looking at other my other servers to see what's going on. Either way, I don't really have to wait 30 minutes to play with people I don't know or my friends. b) If it takes that long to get a game going, wouldn't you rather provide > useful feedback for them to streamline that process so it takes less than a > minute (like it should) ? Finding a game on expert on a campaign I want to play with enough players isn't going to take minutes. Bottomline here is, some people need to shut their pie-holes and let people > explain their issues and suggestions without someone jumping all over them > telling them "it's by design" or "shut down your server if you don't like > it". I didn't say "shutdown your server if you don't like it" as an attack. I was just stating that if you're going to threaten to shutdown your server, do it. I'm not going to, but if you feel so strongly to post on the mailing list upset enough to shutdown your server, then actually do it. Don't talk about it. If you don't want to contribute feedback or help maturely then just don't > post. I was maturely discussing points made by the poster, and I've contributed enough positive feedback and actually helped people that had issues with getting their servers up when the demo was released. Insightful suggestion nonetheless. > Sean > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:04 PM, J T <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Don't threaten to take down your server, do it. You're not bitching or > > whining about it. You're trolling and going on and on and not actually > > doing > > anything but blowing hot air. The less servers there are to play on, the > > harder it will be for people to play and then Valve with be hit with > > complaints after complaints and even charge backs. That's what YOU need > to > > do. > > > >
[hlds] Complaint about L4D steam group server and steam maintenance
I was just enjoying a game of L4D (and doing quite well) on one of our steam-group-only servers. Steam server went down for routine maintenance and we get disconnected from the server and can't join again. I'm assuming this is because Steam doesn't have any way to know if I'm in the steam group when the servers are down, but I'm just wondering if there can't be a better way to handle this situation since we had progressed quite far on Expert. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] whining s
Thats what I said... its very hard to read the archive and it clutters peoples inboxes. Its also impossible to moderate since the message is sent to everyone and if it was seen by someone first it would take forever to get through since the person would be reading a lot of emais. A forum would be nice, one that isnt on steam powered that is. From: Arg! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 4:18:16 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] whining s perhaps this mailing list should become a moderated forum instead. On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Ferenc Kovacs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:09 AM, steve grout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > can we please please please stop this thread it really isnt going > > anywhere. The only way this will get resolved is by mailing valve > > support themselves not on this mailing list. afaik this list is for > > questions relating to server setup and issues people are having, (before > > you go off on one) given the fact that there are no such documents > > released by valve when a game is released..if ever. > > > > Keeping this discussion alive on here is now pointless. Not everyone is > > going to agree with each other, which they are entitled to do and given > > that you make a few good points and come across well you are starting to > > harm your argument by carrying it on. Get in-touch with valve. > > > > Ok lets agree to end it (oops i said the 'agree' word) > > > > Kitteny Berk wrote: > > > Can someone drop me an email once all this shit is done with. > > > > > > The list is completely useless to anyone needing any support right now, > > > It's not worth staying subscribed. > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > I think we should delist the custom servers from the internet tab. > That should silence the l4d trolls. :) > > Tyrael > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Wrong. Documentation, among other things, describes what a project is designed to do. Without documentation, no one can say what the project is designed to do. Thus, no one can say what is by design and what is not. Simple facts. Simple deductive reasoning. Simple. > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:16:50 + > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > > People here say "if you need help, just read the mailing list, look at > > the forums". I say I have, and there's some basic stuff that is simply > > impossible, by design or by flaw. > > This is not a documentation issue, Unless your issue with the documentation > is "the documentation doesn't tell me how to do something the server isn't > designed to do" > > Other things it can't do that Valve don't make explicit: "Server can't make > ice cream. Server can't help you pull girls. Server can't see your house > from here" > > The reason there's a backlash here is because you're using "lack of > documentation" as an excuse to tell valve how you think they should have > done things. Some of your points I agree with. Some of them I don't. But > your line of argument I think is what I take issue with. > > "Square peg does not come with instructions on how to fit it into round > hole" doesn't impress me. "Peg should support being round, because there's > a lot of round holes here" might. But the way you phrase your opinions, > probably not. > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_faster_112008 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
Let's all do that. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 6:47 PM, James McKenna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How about everyone shuts up? > > Sounds good. > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] whining s
perhaps this mailing list should become a moderated forum instead. On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Ferenc Kovacs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:09 AM, steve grout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > can we please please please stop this thread it really isnt going > > anywhere. The only way this will get resolved is by mailing valve > > support themselves not on this mailing list. afaik this list is for > > questions relating to server setup and issues people are having, (before > > you go off on one) given the fact that there are no such documents > > released by valve when a game is released..if ever. > > > > Keeping this discussion alive on here is now pointless. Not everyone is > > going to agree with each other, which they are entitled to do and given > > that you make a few good points and come across well you are starting to > > harm your argument by carrying it on. Get in-touch with valve. > > > > Ok lets agree to end it (oops i said the 'agree' word) > > > > Kitteny Berk wrote: > > > Can someone drop me an email once all this shit is done with. > > > > > > The list is completely useless to anyone needing any support right now, > > > It's not worth staying subscribed. > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > I think we should delist the custom servers from the internet tab. > That should silence the l4d trolls. :) > > Tyrael > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
> People here say "if you need help, just read the mailing list, look at > the forums". I say I have, and there's some basic stuff that is simply > impossible, by design or by flaw. This is not a documentation issue, Unless your issue with the documentation is "the documentation doesn't tell me how to do something the server isn't designed to do" Other things it can't do that Valve don't make explicit: "Server can't make ice cream. Server can't help you pull girls. Server can't see your house from here" The reason there's a backlash here is because you're using "lack of documentation" as an excuse to tell valve how you think they should have done things. Some of your points I agree with. Some of them I don't. But your line of argument I think is what I take issue with. "Square peg does not come with instructions on how to fit it into round hole" doesn't impress me. "Peg should support being round, because there's a lot of round holes here" might. But the way you phrase your opinions, probably not. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
I can totally agree on the sv_steam_group_exclusive part. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:50 PM, Patrick Shelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > To you 'fanboys' defending valves lack of product documentation - > > Through valves complacency you've basically been conditioned to think this > is normal, as a web developer i can assure you this is NOT how products are > rolled out. > > When companies release a product, it is industry standard to release full > product support and documentation. > > When we release a new module for our in house content management system, > this is what we do, and heres why we do it: > > 1) It cuts support requests drastically > > 2) it shows the customer that the comapny they are dealing with are > professionals they can rely on. > > 3) it generates trust and repeat business. > > If i were to build an app or website for a client, do you think it would be > ok to just tell them 'there it is - work it out for yourselves and if you > can, chuck up some stuff on a wiki and let others know' > > Rubbish - i wouldnt last 5 mins. > > I mean, look at the sv_steam_group_exclusive 2 thread! It was conjecture, > but as no reliable documentation was involved, you had admins actually > trying exclusive 2 thinking it was concrete. > > This is NOT how you roll out new products. > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:21 PM, shoskins73 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You can bitch and complain and whine but nothing will happen. Shut off > your > > servers or make them all private so no from the lobby can join. If you > don't > > take down your server, then you're not even standing up for what you're > > blurting out over and over like an idiot. > > While I don't agree with throwing a tantrum and threatening to shut down a > server and never buy a Valve game...your comments are no better. Most > people will have rented servers. We still have 3 weeks left on the first > month of service. So just shutting down the server may not be an option. > My comments were directed to his attitude towards Valve, he should be following through with his "actions/threats" not talking about them and not doing anything. > > > The fact is, the lobby is what valved wanted for the game. It stiffs > server > > administrators that own servers and want to build a community around > their > > servers. This isn't going to change from the looks of it, so instead of > > talking about, do something about it. > > Fact is, Valve have already publicly stated (when the demo was out) and > again by Chet Faliszek that they are aware of the issues, they are working > to implement the Server Browser and surrounding functionality back into the > game while maintaining the Lobby system. So your statement here is in-fact > incorrect. Do they want to use the Lobby system, yes. Do they want to > stiff Server admins and the community overall? No. > > The server browser exists, it wasn't fully removed. Hidden, yes. However we haven't seen anything that suggests it will get any better. And we still don't if the changes they make, or rather the functionality they back will be what everyone was looking for. > > I like the game, I have my server and I can join it whenever I feel like > it > > within 10 minutes. > > a) Why would it take you 10 minutes to join your server? Well, typically I have to check what server has open slots. And sometimes I will have to wait for someone to drop or will have to restart one of my servers and take the password off. Depending. I'll be looking at other my other servers to see what's going on. Either way, I don't really have to wait 30 minutes to play with people I don't know or my friends. b) If it takes that long to get a game going, wouldn't you rather provide > useful feedback for them to streamline that process so it takes less than a > minute (like it should) ? Finding a game on expert on a campaign I want to play with enough players isn't going to take minutes. Bottomline here is, some people need to shut their pie-holes and let people > explain their issues and suggestions without someone jumping all over them > telling them "it's by design" or "shut down your server if you don't like > it". I didn't say "shutdown your server if you don't like it" as an attack. I was just stating that if you're going to threaten to shutdown your server, do it. I'm not going to, but if you feel so strongly to post on the mailing list upset enough to shutdown your server, then actually do it. Don't talk about it. If you don't want to contribute feedback or help maturely then just don't > post. I was maturely discussing points made by the poster, and I've contributed enough positive feedback and actually helped people that had issues with getting their servers up when the demo was released. Insightful suggestion nonetheless. > Sean > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:04 PM, J T <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Don't threaten to take down your server, do it. You're not bitching or > > whining about it. You're trolling and going on and on and not actually > > doing > > anything but blowing hot air. The less servers there are to play on, the > > harder it will be for people to play and then Valve with be hit with > > complaints after complaints and even charge backs. That's what YOU need > to > > do. > > > > You can bitch and complain and whine but nothing will happen. Shut off > your > > servers or make them all private so no from the lobby can join. If you > > don't > > take down your server, then you're not even standing up for what you're > > blurting out over and over like an idiot. > > > > The fact is, the lobby is what valved wanted for the game. It stiffs > server > > administrators that own servers and want to build a community around > their > > servers. This isn't going to change from the looks of it, so instead of > > talking about, do something about it. > > > > I like the game, I have my server and I can join it whenever I feel like > it > > within 10 minutes. > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Blood Letter < > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > I KNOW I can't. > > > > > > People here say "if you need help, just read the mailing list, look at > > the > > > forums". I say I have, and there's some basic stuff that is simply > > > impossible, by design or by flaw. > > > Peo
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Just deal with it fantastic Why dont you demand what is normal and standard? I'm not gonna threaten to boycott source games - i like them, in fact i love them, however, i cant sit by and not say anything about this issue. I've said my bit, and you wont hear from me again on this subject :) FYI this is my 2nd year dealing with source servers - i was silent about this when TF2 was released, but i just cant be quiet this time (apart from now that i've said you wont hear my opinion on this again) BTW - did i mention that valve should release full product documentation and support? ;) Love to the wife and kids, Pat On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Matthew Gottlieb < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How long have you been working with dedicated server? > No company his implemented a huge support system and documentation that > people seem to be begging for. > > While I understand that documentation would help, just deal with it. This > listserv and SRCDS.com and other sites are working together as a community. > > Yes, it's bad. Yes, it's hard. But yelling that valve is some type of > devil is just wrong. > > ~ Matt > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Patrick Shelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >wrote: > > > To you 'fanboys' defending valves lack of product documentation - > > > > Through valves complacency you've basically been conditioned to think > this > > is normal, as a web developer i can assure you this is NOT how products > are > > rolled out. > > > > When companies release a product, it is industry standard to release full > > product support and documentation. > > > > When we release a new module for our in house content management system, > > this is what we do, and heres why we do it: > > > > 1) It cuts support requests drastically > > > > 2) it shows the customer that the comapny they are dealing with are > > professionals they can rely on. > > > > 3) it generates trust and repeat business. > > > > If i were to build an app or website for a client, do you think it would > be > > ok to just tell them 'there it is - work it out for yourselves and if you > > can, chuck up some stuff on a wiki and let others know' > > > > Rubbish - i wouldnt last 5 mins. > > > > I mean, look at the sv_steam_group_exclusive 2 thread! It was > conjecture, > > but as no reliable documentation was involved, you had admins actually > > trying exclusive 2 thinking it was concrete. > > > > This is NOT how you roll out new products. > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some serverinstructions and server.cfg)
Amen. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James McKenna Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 4:47 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some serverinstructions and server.cfg) How about everyone shuts up? Sounds good. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
How long have you been working with dedicated server? No company his implemented a huge support system and documentation that people seem to be begging for. While I understand that documentation would help, just deal with it. This listserv and SRCDS.com and other sites are working together as a community. Yes, it's bad. Yes, it's hard. But yelling that valve is some type of devil is just wrong. ~ Matt On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Patrick Shelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > To you 'fanboys' defending valves lack of product documentation - > > Through valves complacency you've basically been conditioned to think this > is normal, as a web developer i can assure you this is NOT how products are > rolled out. > > When companies release a product, it is industry standard to release full > product support and documentation. > > When we release a new module for our in house content management system, > this is what we do, and heres why we do it: > > 1) It cuts support requests drastically > > 2) it shows the customer that the comapny they are dealing with are > professionals they can rely on. > > 3) it generates trust and repeat business. > > If i were to build an app or website for a client, do you think it would be > ok to just tell them 'there it is - work it out for yourselves and if you > can, chuck up some stuff on a wiki and let others know' > > Rubbish - i wouldnt last 5 mins. > > I mean, look at the sv_steam_group_exclusive 2 thread! It was conjecture, > but as no reliable documentation was involved, you had admins actually > trying exclusive 2 thinking it was concrete. > > This is NOT how you roll out new products. > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
This isn't like Valves other games, and that's why everyone is so upset. Have you ever played Combat Arms? It's a free game (you pay money to buy things in game, however you can still play for free and get good items). You can create rooms. People can join. You can set the game mode and map and the amount of players. Everyone ready's up and plays. The game ends and you're back in the lobby. Left 4 Dead is exactly the same. Except server owners foot the bill on hosting the games, Combat Arms hosts the games on their servers. I think Valve needs to have two types of servers that interact with the lobby and steam groups. Public servers can be used for public lobby's and private lobby's (passworded/invaite only), servers are picked at random. Locked servers can only be used by specific steamid's apart of a specific steam group. A lobby is created and then the person that created it can choose what server they want to use. Their steam group would have 5 servers available, 2 which are in use (games being played) and 3 that are free. The three free servers would be available to choose from. Bam. Reservation sent. Only way I see it working properly. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:54 PM, shoskins73 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So because "it's by design" means we can't point out bugs and functionality > problems with the "design"? > > Because "it's by design" means can't get the system adjusted so that it > works for everyone and allow admins to set up servers with specific game > modes like they have been able to do for all their games in the past? > > Sean > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:38 PM, msleeper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It's by design, because it's not an accident? It's by design, because of > > exactly what you said? It's not like there are CVARs that control it's > > usage that aren't working. If it was designed to be allowed to do those > > things, there would be options to set. > > > > I say it's by design because of *drum roll* common sense and logical > > reasoning. > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 14:27 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > Who are you to say that it's by design? Did you design it? Were you > in > > on the meetings? > > > > > > The fact that you can change to a different mission implies that the > > lobby system is NOT intended to lock the server into a particular > > map/mission. > > > Yet the fact that you CAN'T change to a different game type implies the > > lobby system IS intended to lock the server into a particular game type. > > > > > > The ONLY reason I can see for this being that case is that if a vote > were > > called to switch from versus to coop, up to 4 players would potentially > be > > booted. > > > The easy way around this problem (and it looks like this is the path > that > > Valve took) is to simply disallow game mode switching. > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:07:39 -0500 > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > files? > > > > > > > > These have been addressed before. I'll go warm up a thread on srcds > for > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > You cannot; it is by design. The Lobby system handles map decision > > making. It is somewhat possible to control this by removing the specific > BSP > > files, but this really isn't doing what you want - the Lobby System tells > > your server to change to X map; it can't find it so it errors out and > sends > > the players elsewhere. This results in having Coop or Versus only play, > but > > is again a huge hack. > > > > > > > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > > Not sure what this has to do with Dedicated Server management, it > > sounds like more of a question for the Steam Forums. But again - you > cannot > > and it is also by design, again because of the Lobby. You started a Coop > > game, so you will have to leave find a Versus lobby to play a Versus > game. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:55 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > > > Ideally, documentation is due before the release of a product. > > > > > Valve's track record is not an excuse, it's a shame. > > > > > > > > > > I have problems, I've posted them here, and in other places. > > > > > They don't get answered, they go ignored, because no one has an > > answer. > > > > > > > > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:48:42 -0500 > > > > > > Subject
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
To you 'fanboys' defending valves lack of product documentation - Through valves complacency you've basically been conditioned to think this is normal, as a web developer i can assure you this is NOT how products are rolled out. When companies release a product, it is industry standard to release full product support and documentation. When we release a new module for our in house content management system, this is what we do, and heres why we do it: 1) It cuts support requests drastically 2) it shows the customer that the comapny they are dealing with are professionals they can rely on. 3) it generates trust and repeat business. If i were to build an app or website for a client, do you think it would be ok to just tell them 'there it is - work it out for yourselves and if you can, chuck up some stuff on a wiki and let others know' Rubbish - i wouldnt last 5 mins. I mean, look at the sv_steam_group_exclusive 2 thread! It was conjecture, but as no reliable documentation was involved, you had admins actually trying exclusive 2 thinking it was concrete. This is NOT how you roll out new products. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
How about everyone shuts up? Sounds good. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
Funny how you guys are the ones telling others to shut up about this...yet you are the ones that started a new thread, childishly renamed it and are STILL harping on about it. If you don't want to help solve problems, or provide feedback on problems so they can be fixed, then stop posting. The same goes for the folks that are excessively ranting/whining on the server functionality shortfalls and not being constructive with their criticisms. Sean On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:28 PM, msleeper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thank you. > > http://www.msleeper.com/files/hi5.gif > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 17:19 -0600, Matthew Gottlieb wrote: > > Documentation for Source Dedicated Server has always been bad. > > What makes you think that valve is hiding something? > > If you need help, talk to the community. Both this listserv and > > srcds.comare great tools. > > > > Get used to it. Documentation is bad. Releases are never smooth. > Plugins > > break. > > > > Do you know of another Dedicated Server community that has better > official > > documentation? Because it's not any better for CoD4 or UT2k4 or Quake3. > > > > ~ Matt > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Karl Weckstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > It isn't my job to start a wiki page or write valve's documentation. > It's > > > THEIR job. Not ours. To defend their lack of documentation is simply > absurd. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike O'Laughlen > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:57 PM > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server > > > instructions and server.cfg) > > > > > > Yeah this thread has become unhelpful to anyone but yourself. I don't > even > > > see what your problem is except complaining that the Internets aren't > > > structured enough for you. > > > > > > Furthermore, some of these new cvars such as sv_steamgroup and > > > sv_steamgroup_exclusive were added to the product just before release, > so > > > any documentation would have be kept up to date. Admins are typically > > > technically savvy and able to google for this information. And the > > > attitude > > > that you need to be compensated to create the appropriate documentation > is > > > bollocks. > > > > > > Here's a document on all the cvars (sans sv_steamgroup) > > > http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf > > > > > > If that doesn't help, start a wiki page for l4d cvars/guide. You can > even > > > add a link from the Valve developer wiki (not sure if it's the > appropriate > > > wiki since its geared towards the SDK devs... but whatever): > > > > > > http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Left_4_dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm *not* supporting L4D until Valve gets their act together. I > made > > > the > > > > > decision a day or two after release and numerous frustrating > attempts > > > to > > > > get > > > > > it behaving the way I wanted. > > > > > > > > > > To say "If you can't figure it out, then you shouldn't be a server > > > > > operator" doesn't carry *ANY* weight with me. That's simply a > childish > > > > jab > > > > > at best and an excuse for valve at worst. > > > > > > > > > > There is no substitute for proper documentation. <---Read that. Now > > > read > > > > it > > > > > again. Keep reading it until you understand what it means. > > > > > > > > > > Everyone on this list should be *EXPECTING* proper documentation > for > > > this > > > > > product. Not begging for it or relying on the few people who > managed to > > > > > kinda-sorta figure it out. It's half-assed, and I expect better > from > > > > Valve. > > > > > I blindly believed that Valve would do right by server ops. I won't > > > > blindly > > > > > believe that anymore. > > > > > > > > > > Call me a whiner. Call me an attention-craver. I don't care. I > *will* > > > > voice > > > > > my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it. > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailma
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
Thank you. http://www.msleeper.com/files/hi5.gif On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 17:19 -0600, Matthew Gottlieb wrote: > Documentation for Source Dedicated Server has always been bad. > What makes you think that valve is hiding something? > If you need help, talk to the community. Both this listserv and > srcds.comare great tools. > > Get used to it. Documentation is bad. Releases are never smooth. Plugins > break. > > Do you know of another Dedicated Server community that has better official > documentation? Because it's not any better for CoD4 or UT2k4 or Quake3. > > ~ Matt > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Karl Weckstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It isn't my job to start a wiki page or write valve's documentation. It's > > THEIR job. Not ours. To defend their lack of documentation is simply absurd. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike O'Laughlen > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:57 PM > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server > > instructions and server.cfg) > > > > Yeah this thread has become unhelpful to anyone but yourself. I don't even > > see what your problem is except complaining that the Internets aren't > > structured enough for you. > > > > Furthermore, some of these new cvars such as sv_steamgroup and > > sv_steamgroup_exclusive were added to the product just before release, so > > any documentation would have be kept up to date. Admins are typically > > technically savvy and able to google for this information. And the > > attitude > > that you need to be compensated to create the appropriate documentation is > > bollocks. > > > > Here's a document on all the cvars (sans sv_steamgroup) > > http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf > > > > If that doesn't help, start a wiki page for l4d cvars/guide. You can even > > add a link from the Valve developer wiki (not sure if it's the appropriate > > wiki since its geared towards the SDK devs... but whatever): > > > > http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Left_4_dead > > > > > > > > > > I'm *not* supporting L4D until Valve gets their act together. I made > > the > > > > decision a day or two after release and numerous frustrating attempts > > to > > > get > > > > it behaving the way I wanted. > > > > > > > > To say "If you can't figure it out, then you shouldn't be a server > > > > operator" doesn't carry *ANY* weight with me. That's simply a childish > > > jab > > > > at best and an excuse for valve at worst. > > > > > > > > There is no substitute for proper documentation. <---Read that. Now > > read > > > it > > > > again. Keep reading it until you understand what it means. > > > > > > > > Everyone on this list should be *EXPECTING* proper documentation for > > this > > > > product. Not begging for it or relying on the few people who managed to > > > > kinda-sorta figure it out. It's half-assed, and I expect better from > > > Valve. > > > > I blindly believed that Valve would do right by server ops. I won't > > > blindly > > > > believe that anymore. > > > > > > > > Call me a whiner. Call me an attention-craver. I don't care. I *will* > > > voice > > > > my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it. > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
> You can bitch and complain and whine but nothing will happen. Shut off your > servers or make them all private so no from the lobby can join. If you don't > take down your server, then you're not even standing up for what you're > blurting out over and over like an idiot. While I don't agree with throwing a tantrum and threatening to shut down a server and never buy a Valve game...your comments are no better. Most people will have rented servers. We still have 3 weeks left on the first month of service. So just shutting down the server may not be an option. > The fact is, the lobby is what valved wanted for the game. It stiffs server > administrators that own servers and want to build a community around their > servers. This isn't going to change from the looks of it, so instead of > talking about, do something about it. Fact is, Valve have already publicly stated (when the demo was out) and again by Chet Faliszek that they are aware of the issues, they are working to implement the Server Browser and surrounding functionality back into the game while maintaining the Lobby system. So your statement here is in-fact incorrect. Do they want to use the Lobby system, yes. Do they want to stiff Server admins and the community overall? No. > I like the game, I have my server and I can join it whenever I feel like it > within 10 minutes. a) Why would it take you 10 minutes to join your server? b) If it takes that long to get a game going, wouldn't you rather provide useful feedback for them to streamline that process so it takes less than a minute (like it should) ? Bottomline here is, some people need to shut their pie-holes and let people explain their issues and suggestions without someone jumping all over them telling them "it's by design" or "shut down your server if you don't like it". If you don't want to contribute feedback or help maturely then just don't post. Sean On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:04 PM, J T <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Don't threaten to take down your server, do it. You're not bitching or > whining about it. You're trolling and going on and on and not actually > doing > anything but blowing hot air. The less servers there are to play on, the > harder it will be for people to play and then Valve with be hit with > complaints after complaints and even charge backs. That's what YOU need to > do. > > You can bitch and complain and whine but nothing will happen. Shut off your > servers or make them all private so no from the lobby can join. If you > don't > take down your server, then you're not even standing up for what you're > blurting out over and over like an idiot. > > The fact is, the lobby is what valved wanted for the game. It stiffs server > administrators that own servers and want to build a community around their > servers. This isn't going to change from the looks of it, so instead of > talking about, do something about it. > > I like the game, I have my server and I can join it whenever I feel like it > within 10 minutes. > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Blood Letter <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >wrote: > > > > > I KNOW I can't. > > > > People here say "if you need help, just read the mailing list, look at > the > > forums". I say I have, and there's some basic stuff that is simply > > impossible, by design or by flaw. > > People defending Valve's lack of documentation and support do nothing but > > stick their fingers in their ears and repeat "if you need help, just read > > the mailing list, look at the forums". > > > > I point out obvious flaws or omissions or behavioral oddities, and people > > ignore them. Some people will respond and say "the lobby controls that" > or > > "you can't". > > > > If Valve's answer is "you can't" (without a good reason) for some basic > > functions, my server is going down, and I will never buy another Valve > game. > > If Valve continues to ignore server operators, my server is going down, > and > > I will never buy another Valve game. > > > > Valve basically has free labor, hosting, and marketing for their games. > > They are dependent on us, NOT the other way around. > > And yes, I will continue to bitch and whine and moan about it. > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:26:15 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > files? > > > > > > >I want USERS to be able to change between coop and versus maps. > > > You can't. > > > > > > >If this is not possible, I want to restrict my server to coop only. > > > You can't. > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 14:21 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > > You can't "drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the lobby > > system" - you have no control over that. > > > > I want my server to be public at all times, so I won't be using using > > sv_search_key. > > > > > > > > I know how to change the map via rcon, I want USERS to be able to > > change between coop and versus maps. > > > >
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
Documentation for Source Dedicated Server has always been bad. What makes you think that valve is hiding something? If you need help, talk to the community. Both this listserv and srcds.comare great tools. Get used to it. Documentation is bad. Releases are never smooth. Plugins break. Do you know of another Dedicated Server community that has better official documentation? Because it's not any better for CoD4 or UT2k4 or Quake3. ~ Matt On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Karl Weckstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It isn't my job to start a wiki page or write valve's documentation. It's > THEIR job. Not ours. To defend their lack of documentation is simply absurd. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike O'Laughlen > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:57 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server > instructions and server.cfg) > > Yeah this thread has become unhelpful to anyone but yourself. I don't even > see what your problem is except complaining that the Internets aren't > structured enough for you. > > Furthermore, some of these new cvars such as sv_steamgroup and > sv_steamgroup_exclusive were added to the product just before release, so > any documentation would have be kept up to date. Admins are typically > technically savvy and able to google for this information. And the > attitude > that you need to be compensated to create the appropriate documentation is > bollocks. > > Here's a document on all the cvars (sans sv_steamgroup) > http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf > > If that doesn't help, start a wiki page for l4d cvars/guide. You can even > add a link from the Valve developer wiki (not sure if it's the appropriate > wiki since its geared towards the SDK devs... but whatever): > > http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Left_4_dead > > > > > > I'm *not* supporting L4D until Valve gets their act together. I made > the > > > decision a day or two after release and numerous frustrating attempts > to > > get > > > it behaving the way I wanted. > > > > > > To say "If you can't figure it out, then you shouldn't be a server > > > operator" doesn't carry *ANY* weight with me. That's simply a childish > > jab > > > at best and an excuse for valve at worst. > > > > > > There is no substitute for proper documentation. <---Read that. Now > read > > it > > > again. Keep reading it until you understand what it means. > > > > > > Everyone on this list should be *EXPECTING* proper documentation for > this > > > product. Not begging for it or relying on the few people who managed to > > > kinda-sorta figure it out. It's half-assed, and I expect better from > > Valve. > > > I blindly believed that Valve would do right by server ops. I won't > > blindly > > > believe that anymore. > > > > > > Call me a whiner. Call me an attention-craver. I don't care. I *will* > > voice > > > my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it. > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] whining s
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:09 AM, steve grout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > can we please please please stop this thread it really isnt going > anywhere. The only way this will get resolved is by mailing valve > support themselves not on this mailing list. afaik this list is for > questions relating to server setup and issues people are having, (before > you go off on one) given the fact that there are no such documents > released by valve when a game is released..if ever. > > Keeping this discussion alive on here is now pointless. Not everyone is > going to agree with each other, which they are entitled to do and given > that you make a few good points and come across well you are starting to > harm your argument by carrying it on. Get in-touch with valve. > > Ok lets agree to end it (oops i said the 'agree' word) > > Kitteny Berk wrote: > > Can someone drop me an email once all this shit is done with. > > > > The list is completely useless to anyone needing any support right now, > > It's not worth staying subscribed. > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > I think we should delist the custom servers from the internet tab. That should silence the l4d trolls. :) Tyrael ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] whining s
can we please please please stop this thread it really isnt going anywhere. The only way this will get resolved is by mailing valve support themselves not on this mailing list. afaik this list is for questions relating to server setup and issues people are having, (before you go off on one) given the fact that there are no such documents released by valve when a game is released..if ever. Keeping this discussion alive on here is now pointless. Not everyone is going to agree with each other, which they are entitled to do and given that you make a few good points and come across well you are starting to harm your argument by carrying it on. Get in-touch with valve. Ok lets agree to end it (oops i said the 'agree' word) Kitteny Berk wrote: > Can someone drop me an email once all this shit is done with. > > The list is completely useless to anyone needing any support right now, > It's not worth staying subscribed. > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] server.cfg
If you were more descriptive we'd help you. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:14 AM, EKemp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Post your config? > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:10 AM, Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Yeah thanks for that it works now > > > > Will Murray wrote: > > > You should try lathering it in butter > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> Can anyone help me? > > >> > > >> Dean wrote: > > >> > > >>> its broken :( > > >>> > > >>> ___ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>> > > >> please visit: > > >> > > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> ___ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >> please visit: > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Can a mod please close this now useless shithole argument? On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:54 PM, shoskins73 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So because "it's by design" means we can't point out bugs and functionality > problems with the "design"? > > Because "it's by design" means can't get the system adjusted so that it > works for everyone and allow admins to set up servers with specific game > modes like they have been able to do for all their games in the past? > > Sean > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:38 PM, msleeper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It's by design, because it's not an accident? It's by design, because of > > exactly what you said? It's not like there are CVARs that control it's > > usage that aren't working. If it was designed to be allowed to do those > > things, there would be options to set. > > > > I say it's by design because of *drum roll* common sense and logical > > reasoning. > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 14:27 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > Who are you to say that it's by design? Did you design it? Were you > in > > on the meetings? > > > > > > The fact that you can change to a different mission implies that the > > lobby system is NOT intended to lock the server into a particular > > map/mission. > > > Yet the fact that you CAN'T change to a different game type implies the > > lobby system IS intended to lock the server into a particular game type. > > > > > > The ONLY reason I can see for this being that case is that if a vote > were > > called to switch from versus to coop, up to 4 players would potentially > be > > booted. > > > The easy way around this problem (and it looks like this is the path > that > > Valve took) is to simply disallow game mode switching. > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:07:39 -0500 > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > files? > > > > > > > > These have been addressed before. I'll go warm up a thread on srcds > for > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > You cannot; it is by design. The Lobby system handles map decision > > making. It is somewhat possible to control this by removing the specific > BSP > > files, but this really isn't doing what you want - the Lobby System tells > > your server to change to X map; it can't find it so it errors out and > sends > > the players elsewhere. This results in having Coop or Versus only play, > but > > is again a huge hack. > > > > > > > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > > Not sure what this has to do with Dedicated Server management, it > > sounds like more of a question for the Steam Forums. But again - you > cannot > > and it is also by design, again because of the Lobby. You started a Coop > > game, so you will have to leave find a Versus lobby to play a Versus > game. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:55 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > > > Ideally, documentation is due before the release of a product. > > > > > Valve's track record is not an excuse, it's a shame. > > > > > > > > > > I have problems, I've posted them here, and in other places. > > > > > They don't get answered, they go ignored, because no one has an > > answer. > > > > > > > > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:48:42 -0500 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and > > server.cfg files? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not defending it, I just think it's absurd to be freaking > out, > > up in > > > > > > arms about not having it. The game has been out for what, 2 > weeks? > > Has > > > > > > Valve EVER had 100% documentation after release? > > > > > > > > > > > > The people who can't seem to get their stuff working seem to be > in > > the > > > > > > minority. If you have problems, email them here, and put notes on > a > > wiki > > > > > > or a forum somewhere until Valved EVENTUALLY documents things. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:31 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > > > > > I honestly can't believe the people defending the lack of > > documentation. > > > > > > > This kind of behavior is unheard of in software development. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't care if running a server was as simple as: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1: Download this file. > > > > > > > 2: Run it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Documentation is a fundamental requirement for any programming > > project. > > > >
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Don't threaten to take down your server, do it. You're not bitching or whining about it. You're trolling and going on and on and not actually doing anything but blowing hot air. The less servers there are to play on, the harder it will be for people to play and then Valve with be hit with complaints after complaints and even charge backs. That's what YOU need to do. You can bitch and complain and whine but nothing will happen. Shut off your servers or make them all private so no from the lobby can join. If you don't take down your server, then you're not even standing up for what you're blurting out over and over like an idiot. The fact is, the lobby is what valved wanted for the game. It stiffs server administrators that own servers and want to build a community around their servers. This isn't going to change from the looks of it, so instead of talking about, do something about it. I like the game, I have my server and I can join it whenever I feel like it within 10 minutes. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Blood Letter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > I KNOW I can't. > > People here say "if you need help, just read the mailing list, look at the > forums". I say I have, and there's some basic stuff that is simply > impossible, by design or by flaw. > People defending Valve's lack of documentation and support do nothing but > stick their fingers in their ears and repeat "if you need help, just read > the mailing list, look at the forums". > > I point out obvious flaws or omissions or behavioral oddities, and people > ignore them. Some people will respond and say "the lobby controls that" or > "you can't". > > If Valve's answer is "you can't" (without a good reason) for some basic > functions, my server is going down, and I will never buy another Valve game. > If Valve continues to ignore server operators, my server is going down, and > I will never buy another Valve game. > > Valve basically has free labor, hosting, and marketing for their games. > They are dependent on us, NOT the other way around. > And yes, I will continue to bitch and whine and moan about it. > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:26:15 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > files? > > > > >I want USERS to be able to change between coop and versus maps. > > You can't. > > > > >If this is not possible, I want to restrict my server to coop only. > > You can't. > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 14:21 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > You can't "drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the lobby > system" - you have no control over that. > > > I want my server to be public at all times, so I won't be using using > sv_search_key. > > > > > > I know how to change the map via rcon, I want USERS to be able to > change between coop and versus maps. > > > If this is not possible, I want to restrict my server to coop only. > > > > > > The lobby system should dictate the game mode, sure. But if I don't > want hat game mode running on my server, I should be able to turn it off > (and the lobby system would then not pick my server when looking for a > server). What frequently happens is people make a versus lobby and join the > server, then after a while the server empties out, and is still in versus > mode. No new lobbies join the server, and people are less likely to > manually join because it's at 0/8 instead of 0/4, or because they don't like > versus. > > > If I, or my friends, were to join the server and they try to change it > to a coop map via the gui, we would find that it's IMPOSSIBLE via the gui. > We would then have to rcon and force a map. We could set up a coop lobby > and hope we get matched to that server, but the odds of that are very very > low. We could use sv_search_key, but that again involves rcon, so I might > as well just manually change the map. This doesn't work so well if I'm not > around and my friends want to play on my server. They don't have my > password, and I'm not giving it to them (well, one of them does...). > > > > > > Of course I can do whatever I want with rcon. The point is I want the > server to do a few simple things automatically. I'm not even asking for > something difficult. I just want the server to obey the maplist file. > Anything involving rcon is NOT a solution. I don't know about you, but I > have a full time programming job, and I do not have time to babysit a > server, injecting commands into it. Nor do I want to fiddle around with > commands while I'm actually playing. I want the server to be a dedicated > coop server, open to the public. Or, a server open to the public, with a > gui option for ANY user to vote for ANY map (including switching between > versus and coop maps). > > > > > > You can't find a solution, can you? There is none. > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:04:13 -0500 > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > Subjec
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
I have actually raised the question of custom maps and campaigns in other places and I think it is a real concern. I'm not sure if Valve is going to have some sort of official Custom Campaign list or setup a new Custom option for clients. But considering they have not officially released any SDK updates and that people are having to, at best, hack in entities to control map instances and changes, we won't get any information about that until it is necessary. On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 14:43 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > Do you know what "by design" means? > We do not know the intended behavior of anything because we have no > documentation. > For all we know, there is simply a missing ui component that allows people to > switch game modes. > > For all we know, servers are supposed to obey their maplist files, and > lobbies requesting a specific map that doesn't exist on a server will not > choose that server. > > I say this because of *drum roll* common sense and logical reasoning. Ever > consider custom maps? The maplist is central to this issue. Yet now, it is > completely ignored. > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:38:23 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > > > It's by design, because it's not an accident? It's by design, because of > > exactly what you said? It's not like there are CVARs that control it's > > usage that aren't working. If it was designed to be allowed to do those > > things, there would be options to set. > > > > I say it's by design because of *drum roll* common sense and logical > > reasoning. > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 14:27 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > Who are you to say that it's by design? Did you design it? Were you in > > > on the meetings? > > > > > > The fact that you can change to a different mission implies that the > > > lobby system is NOT intended to lock the server into a particular > > > map/mission. > > > Yet the fact that you CAN'T change to a different game type implies the > > > lobby system IS intended to lock the server into a particular game type. > > > > > > The ONLY reason I can see for this being that case is that if a vote were > > > called to switch from versus to coop, up to 4 players would potentially > > > be booted. > > > The easy way around this problem (and it looks like this is the path that > > > Valve took) is to simply disallow game mode switching. > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:07:39 -0500 > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > > > files? > > > > > > > > These have been addressed before. I'll go warm up a thread on srcds for > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > You cannot; it is by design. The Lobby system handles map decision > > > > making. It is somewhat possible to control this by removing the > > > > specific BSP files, but this really isn't doing what you want - the > > > > Lobby System tells your server to change to X map; it can't find it so > > > > it errors out and sends the players elsewhere. This results in having > > > > Coop or Versus only play, but is again a huge hack. > > > > > > > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > > Not sure what this has to do with Dedicated Server management, it > > > > sounds like more of a question for the Steam Forums. But again - you > > > > cannot and it is also by design, again because of the Lobby. You > > > > started a Coop game, so you will have to leave find a Versus lobby to > > > > play a Versus game. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:55 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > > > Ideally, documentation is due before the release of a product. > > > > > Valve's track record is not an excuse, it's a shame. > > > > > > > > > > I have problems, I've posted them here, and in other places. > > > > > They don't get answered, they go ignored, because no one has an > > > > > answer. > > > > > > > > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:48:42 -0500 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and > > > > > > server.cfg files? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not defending it, I just think it's absurd to be freaking out, > > > > > > up in > > > > > > arms about not having it. The game has been out for what, 2 weeks? > >
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
So because "it's by design" means we can't point out bugs and functionality problems with the "design"? Because "it's by design" means can't get the system adjusted so that it works for everyone and allow admins to set up servers with specific game modes like they have been able to do for all their games in the past? Sean On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:38 PM, msleeper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's by design, because it's not an accident? It's by design, because of > exactly what you said? It's not like there are CVARs that control it's > usage that aren't working. If it was designed to be allowed to do those > things, there would be options to set. > > I say it's by design because of *drum roll* common sense and logical > reasoning. > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 14:27 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > Who are you to say that it's by design? Did you design it? Were you in > on the meetings? > > > > The fact that you can change to a different mission implies that the > lobby system is NOT intended to lock the server into a particular > map/mission. > > Yet the fact that you CAN'T change to a different game type implies the > lobby system IS intended to lock the server into a particular game type. > > > > The ONLY reason I can see for this being that case is that if a vote were > called to switch from versus to coop, up to 4 players would potentially be > booted. > > The easy way around this problem (and it looks like this is the path that > Valve took) is to simply disallow game mode switching. > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:07:39 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > files? > > > > > > These have been addressed before. I'll go warm up a thread on srcds for > > > you. > > > > > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > You cannot; it is by design. The Lobby system handles map decision > making. It is somewhat possible to control this by removing the specific BSP > files, but this really isn't doing what you want - the Lobby System tells > your server to change to X map; it can't find it so it errors out and sends > the players elsewhere. This results in having Coop or Versus only play, but > is again a huge hack. > > > > > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > Not sure what this has to do with Dedicated Server management, it > sounds like more of a question for the Steam Forums. But again - you cannot > and it is also by design, again because of the Lobby. You started a Coop > game, so you will have to leave find a Versus lobby to play a Versus game. > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:55 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > > Ideally, documentation is due before the release of a product. > > > > Valve's track record is not an excuse, it's a shame. > > > > > > > > I have problems, I've posted them here, and in other places. > > > > They don't get answered, they go ignored, because no one has an > answer. > > > > > > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:48:42 -0500 > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and > server.cfg files? > > > > > > > > > > I'm not defending it, I just think it's absurd to be freaking out, > up in > > > > > arms about not having it. The game has been out for what, 2 weeks? > Has > > > > > Valve EVER had 100% documentation after release? > > > > > > > > > > The people who can't seem to get their stuff working seem to be in > the > > > > > minority. If you have problems, email them here, and put notes on a > wiki > > > > > or a forum somewhere until Valved EVENTUALLY documents things. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:31 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > > > > I honestly can't believe the people defending the lack of > documentation. > > > > > > This kind of behavior is unheard of in software development. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't care if running a server was as simple as: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1: Download this file. > > > > > > 2: Run it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Documentation is a fundamental requirement for any programming > project. > > > > > > Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. I hope you don't have jobs > in the industry, and I pray no accredited university has awarded you a > degree in the field. > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:55:41 -0500 > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server ins
[hlds] whining s
Can someone drop me an email once all this shit is done with. The list is completely useless to anyone needing any support right now, It's not worth staying subscribed. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Do you know what "by design" means? We do not know the intended behavior of anything because we have no documentation. For all we know, there is simply a missing ui component that allows people to switch game modes. For all we know, servers are supposed to obey their maplist files, and lobbies requesting a specific map that doesn't exist on a server will not choose that server. I say this because of *drum roll* common sense and logical reasoning. Ever consider custom maps? The maplist is central to this issue. Yet now, it is completely ignored. > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:38:23 -0500 > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > It's by design, because it's not an accident? It's by design, because of > exactly what you said? It's not like there are CVARs that control it's > usage that aren't working. If it was designed to be allowed to do those > things, there would be options to set. > > I say it's by design because of *drum roll* common sense and logical > reasoning. > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 14:27 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > Who are you to say that it's by design? Did you design it? Were you in on > > the meetings? > > > > The fact that you can change to a different mission implies that the lobby > > system is NOT intended to lock the server into a particular map/mission. > > Yet the fact that you CAN'T change to a different game type implies the > > lobby system IS intended to lock the server into a particular game type. > > > > The ONLY reason I can see for this being that case is that if a vote were > > called to switch from versus to coop, up to 4 players would potentially be > > booted. > > The easy way around this problem (and it looks like this is the path that > > Valve took) is to simply disallow game mode switching. > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:07:39 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > > files? > > > > > > These have been addressed before. I'll go warm up a thread on srcds for > > > you. > > > > > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > You cannot; it is by design. The Lobby system handles map decision > > > making. It is somewhat possible to control this by removing the specific > > > BSP files, but this really isn't doing what you want - the Lobby System > > > tells your server to change to X map; it can't find it so it errors out > > > and sends the players elsewhere. This results in having Coop or Versus > > > only play, but is again a huge hack. > > > > > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > Not sure what this has to do with Dedicated Server management, it sounds > > > like more of a question for the Steam Forums. But again - you cannot and > > > it is also by design, again because of the Lobby. You started a Coop > > > game, so you will have to leave find a Versus lobby to play a Versus game. > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:55 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > > Ideally, documentation is due before the release of a product. > > > > Valve's track record is not an excuse, it's a shame. > > > > > > > > I have problems, I've posted them here, and in other places. > > > > They don't get answered, they go ignored, because no one has an answer. > > > > > > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:48:42 -0500 > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > > > > files? > > > > > > > > > > I'm not defending it, I just think it's absurd to be freaking out, up > > > > > in > > > > > arms about not having it. The game has been out for what, 2 weeks? Has > > > > > Valve EVER had 100% documentation after release? > > > > > > > > > > The people who can't seem to get their stuff working seem to be in the > > > > > minority. If you have problems, email them here, and put notes on a > > > > > wiki > > > > > or a forum somewhere until Valved EVENTUALLY documents things. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:31 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > > > > I honestly can't believe the people defending the lack of > > > > > > documentation. > > > > > > This kind of behavior is unheard of in software development. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't care if running a server was as simple as: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1: Download this file. > > > > > > 2: Run it. > > > > > > >
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
I KNOW I can't. People here say "if you need help, just read the mailing list, look at the forums". I say I have, and there's some basic stuff that is simply impossible, by design or by flaw. People defending Valve's lack of documentation and support do nothing but stick their fingers in their ears and repeat "if you need help, just read the mailing list, look at the forums". I point out obvious flaws or omissions or behavioral oddities, and people ignore them. Some people will respond and say "the lobby controls that" or "you can't". If Valve's answer is "you can't" (without a good reason) for some basic functions, my server is going down, and I will never buy another Valve game. If Valve continues to ignore server operators, my server is going down, and I will never buy another Valve game. Valve basically has free labor, hosting, and marketing for their games. They are dependent on us, NOT the other way around. And yes, I will continue to bitch and whine and moan about it. > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:26:15 -0500 > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > >I want USERS to be able to change between coop and versus maps. > You can't. > > >If this is not possible, I want to restrict my server to coop only. > You can't. > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 14:21 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > You can't "drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the lobby system" > > - you have no control over that. > > I want my server to be public at all times, so I won't be using using > > sv_search_key. > > > > I know how to change the map via rcon, I want USERS to be able to change > > between coop and versus maps. > > If this is not possible, I want to restrict my server to coop only. > > > > The lobby system should dictate the game mode, sure. But if I don't want > > hat game mode running on my server, I should be able to turn it off (and > > the lobby system would then not pick my server when looking for a server). > > What frequently happens is people make a versus lobby and join the server, > > then after a while the server empties out, and is still in versus mode. No > > new lobbies join the server, and people are less likely to manually join > > because it's at 0/8 instead of 0/4, or because they don't like versus. > > If I, or my friends, were to join the server and they try to change it to a > > coop map via the gui, we would find that it's IMPOSSIBLE via the gui. We > > would then have to rcon and force a map. We could set up a coop lobby and > > hope we get matched to that server, but the odds of that are very very low. > > We could use sv_search_key, but that again involves rcon, so I might as > > well just manually change the map. This doesn't work so well if I'm not > > around and my friends want to play on my server. They don't have my > > password, and I'm not giving it to them (well, one of them does...). > > > > Of course I can do whatever I want with rcon. The point is I want the > > server to do a few simple things automatically. I'm not even asking for > > something difficult. I just want the server to obey the maplist file. > > Anything involving rcon is NOT a solution. I don't know about you, but I > > have a full time programming job, and I do not have time to babysit a > > server, injecting commands into it. Nor do I want to fiddle around with > > commands while I'm actually playing. I want the server to be a dedicated > > coop server, open to the public. Or, a server open to the public, with a > > gui option for ANY user to vote for ANY map (including switching between > > versus and coop maps). > > > > You can't find a solution, can you? There is none. > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:04:13 -0500 > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > > files? > > > > > > Inline responses. > > > > > > > What about maplists and map cycles? Or mission cycles? > > > > > > Typically you should drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the > > > lobby system and restrict your dedicated server search using sv_search_key > > > cvar. This is good if you want to create a public lobby but use your > > > dedicated server. If you're finished playing and want to let others find > > > your dedicated server you can disable it by clearing the sv_search_key > > > cvar > > > via rcon (e.g. rcon sv_search_key ""). > > > > > > > What about switching between versus and coop maps? > > > > Why is my server currently on a versus map, when I only have coop maps > > > > in the maplist, and it starts on the hospital coop mission (via command > > > > line)? > > > > > > Again it should be controlled by the lobby system, but if you joined and > > > want to switch maps as an admin use the changelevel command. > > > > > > For a versus map: > > > > > > rcon c
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
It's by design, because it's not an accident? It's by design, because of exactly what you said? It's not like there are CVARs that control it's usage that aren't working. If it was designed to be allowed to do those things, there would be options to set. I say it's by design because of *drum roll* common sense and logical reasoning. On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 14:27 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > Who are you to say that it's by design? Did you design it? Were you in on > the meetings? > > The fact that you can change to a different mission implies that the lobby > system is NOT intended to lock the server into a particular map/mission. > Yet the fact that you CAN'T change to a different game type implies the lobby > system IS intended to lock the server into a particular game type. > > The ONLY reason I can see for this being that case is that if a vote were > called to switch from versus to coop, up to 4 players would potentially be > booted. > The easy way around this problem (and it looks like this is the path that > Valve took) is to simply disallow game mode switching. > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:07:39 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > > > These have been addressed before. I'll go warm up a thread on srcds for > > you. > > > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > You cannot; it is by design. The Lobby system handles map decision making. > > It is somewhat possible to control this by removing the specific BSP files, > > but this really isn't doing what you want - the Lobby System tells your > > server to change to X map; it can't find it so it errors out and sends the > > players elsewhere. This results in having Coop or Versus only play, but is > > again a huge hack. > > > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > Not sure what this has to do with Dedicated Server management, it sounds > > like more of a question for the Steam Forums. But again - you cannot and it > > is also by design, again because of the Lobby. You started a Coop game, so > > you will have to leave find a Versus lobby to play a Versus game. > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:55 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > Ideally, documentation is due before the release of a product. > > > Valve's track record is not an excuse, it's a shame. > > > > > > I have problems, I've posted them here, and in other places. > > > They don't get answered, they go ignored, because no one has an answer. > > > > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:48:42 -0500 > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > > > files? > > > > > > > > I'm not defending it, I just think it's absurd to be freaking out, up in > > > > arms about not having it. The game has been out for what, 2 weeks? Has > > > > Valve EVER had 100% documentation after release? > > > > > > > > The people who can't seem to get their stuff working seem to be in the > > > > minority. If you have problems, email them here, and put notes on a wiki > > > > or a forum somewhere until Valved EVENTUALLY documents things. > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:31 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > > > I honestly can't believe the people defending the lack of > > > > > documentation. > > > > > This kind of behavior is unheard of in software development. > > > > > > > > > > I don't care if running a server was as simple as: > > > > > > > > > > 1: Download this file. > > > > > 2: Run it. > > > > > > > > > > Documentation is a fundamental requirement for any programming > > > > > project. > > > > > Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. I hope you don't have jobs in > > > > > the industry, and I pray no accredited university has awarded you a > > > > > degree in the field. > > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:55:41 -0500 > > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and > > > > > > server.cfg files? > > > > > > > > > > > > Seconding. It has more or less been the community's place in the > > > > > > past to > > > > > > explore options that are outside the box, and I don't see why L4D > > > > > > is or > > > > > > should be any different. > > > > > > > > > > > > Want documentation? Play with CVARs and throw you findings up on > > > > > > srcds.com or the Developer wiki. Thank you for helping us help you > > > > > >
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Who are you to say that it's by design? Did you design it? Were you in on the meetings? The fact that you can change to a different mission implies that the lobby system is NOT intended to lock the server into a particular map/mission. Yet the fact that you CAN'T change to a different game type implies the lobby system IS intended to lock the server into a particular game type. The ONLY reason I can see for this being that case is that if a vote were called to switch from versus to coop, up to 4 players would potentially be booted. The easy way around this problem (and it looks like this is the path that Valve took) is to simply disallow game mode switching. > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:07:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > These have been addressed before. I'll go warm up a thread on srcds for > you. > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > You cannot; it is by design. The Lobby system handles map decision making. It > is somewhat possible to control this by removing the specific BSP files, but > this really isn't doing what you want - the Lobby System tells your server to > change to X map; it can't find it so it errors out and sends the players > elsewhere. This results in having Coop or Versus only play, but is again a > huge hack. > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > Not sure what this has to do with Dedicated Server management, it sounds like > more of a question for the Steam Forums. But again - you cannot and it is > also by design, again because of the Lobby. You started a Coop game, so you > will have to leave find a Versus lobby to play a Versus game. > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:55 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > Ideally, documentation is due before the release of a product. > > Valve's track record is not an excuse, it's a shame. > > > > I have problems, I've posted them here, and in other places. > > They don't get answered, they go ignored, because no one has an answer. > > > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:48:42 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > > files? > > > > > > I'm not defending it, I just think it's absurd to be freaking out, up in > > > arms about not having it. The game has been out for what, 2 weeks? Has > > > Valve EVER had 100% documentation after release? > > > > > > The people who can't seem to get their stuff working seem to be in the > > > minority. If you have problems, email them here, and put notes on a wiki > > > or a forum somewhere until Valved EVENTUALLY documents things. > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:31 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > > I honestly can't believe the people defending the lack of documentation. > > > > This kind of behavior is unheard of in software development. > > > > > > > > I don't care if running a server was as simple as: > > > > > > > > 1: Download this file. > > > > 2: Run it. > > > > > > > > Documentation is a fundamental requirement for any programming project. > > > > Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. I hope you don't have jobs in the > > > > industry, and I pray no accredited university has awarded you a degree > > > > in the field. > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:55:41 -0500 > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > > > > files? > > > > > > > > > > Seconding. It has more or less been the community's place in the past > > > > > to > > > > > explore options that are outside the box, and I don't see why L4D is > > > > > or > > > > > should be any different. > > > > > > > > > > Want documentation? Play with CVARs and throw you findings up on > > > > > srcds.com or the Developer wiki. Thank you for helping us help you > > > > > help > > > > > us all. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 10:09 -0600, Dustin Wyatt wrote: > > > > > > QFT. Documentation complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source > > > > > > > servers, as > > > > > > > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your > > > > > > > IP and > > > > > > > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and > > > > > > > you've > > > > > > > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a ste
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
>I want USERS to be able to change between coop and versus maps. You can't. >If this is not possible, I want to restrict my server to coop only. You can't. On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 14:21 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > You can't "drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the lobby system" - > you have no control over that. > I want my server to be public at all times, so I won't be using using > sv_search_key. > > I know how to change the map via rcon, I want USERS to be able to change > between coop and versus maps. > If this is not possible, I want to restrict my server to coop only. > > The lobby system should dictate the game mode, sure. But if I don't want hat > game mode running on my server, I should be able to turn it off (and the > lobby system would then not pick my server when looking for a server). What > frequently happens is people make a versus lobby and join the server, then > after a while the server empties out, and is still in versus mode. No new > lobbies join the server, and people are less likely to manually join because > it's at 0/8 instead of 0/4, or because they don't like versus. > If I, or my friends, were to join the server and they try to change it to a > coop map via the gui, we would find that it's IMPOSSIBLE via the gui. We > would then have to rcon and force a map. We could set up a coop lobby and > hope we get matched to that server, but the odds of that are very very low. > We could use sv_search_key, but that again involves rcon, so I might as well > just manually change the map. This doesn't work so well if I'm not around > and my friends want to play on my server. They don't have my password, and > I'm not giving it to them (well, one of them does...). > > Of course I can do whatever I want with rcon. The point is I want the server > to do a few simple things automatically. I'm not even asking for something > difficult. I just want the server to obey the maplist file. Anything > involving rcon is NOT a solution. I don't know about you, but I have a full > time programming job, and I do not have time to babysit a server, injecting > commands into it. Nor do I want to fiddle around with commands while I'm > actually playing. I want the server to be a dedicated coop server, open to > the public. Or, a server open to the public, with a gui option for ANY user > to vote for ANY map (including switching between versus and coop maps). > > You can't find a solution, can you? There is none. > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:04:13 -0500 > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > > > Inline responses. > > > > > What about maplists and map cycles? Or mission cycles? > > > > Typically you should drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the > > lobby system and restrict your dedicated server search using sv_search_key > > cvar. This is good if you want to create a public lobby but use your > > dedicated server. If you're finished playing and want to let others find > > your dedicated server you can disable it by clearing the sv_search_key cvar > > via rcon (e.g. rcon sv_search_key ""). > > > > > What about switching between versus and coop maps? > > > Why is my server currently on a versus map, when I only have coop maps > > > in the maplist, and it starts on the hospital coop mission (via command > > > line)? > > > > Again it should be controlled by the lobby system, but if you joined and > > want to switch maps as an admin use the changelevel command. > > > > For a versus map: > > > > rcon changelevel l4d_vs_farm01_hilltop > > > > For a coop map: > > > > rcon changelevel l4d_hospital01_apartment > > > > Notice the coop maps don't have _vs_ in the name. If you're interested in > > the complete list of maps start typing the changelevel command to let the > > console autocomplete with the available maps. Once you've found the desired > > map, prepend the command with rcon and you're good to go. > > > > > There is no way for users to vote for a different map type in the gui. > > > There should be. (Then there should be an option for server admins to > > > restrict their servers to a specific type or not.) > > > > Wy?? Lobby system should dictate the gamemode. > > > > > What about controlling team balance between survivors and zombies in a > > > versus map? Too many times I've seen it be 4 survivors vs 2 infected. > > > What about controlling the behavior of the director, the hitbox values, > > > the max number of infected spawned at any given time, etc.? > > > > I've seen a good strategy for evening team skill. Change the difficulty > > when the stronger team is playing as survivors. This can be done using the > > z_difficulty cvar. There are other z_* commands that affect the zombies, > > but I haven't used them. > > > > > My server is up and running fine, except for it randomly switching to > > > ve
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
You can't "drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the lobby system" - you have no control over that. I want my server to be public at all times, so I won't be using using sv_search_key. I know how to change the map via rcon, I want USERS to be able to change between coop and versus maps. If this is not possible, I want to restrict my server to coop only. The lobby system should dictate the game mode, sure. But if I don't want hat game mode running on my server, I should be able to turn it off (and the lobby system would then not pick my server when looking for a server). What frequently happens is people make a versus lobby and join the server, then after a while the server empties out, and is still in versus mode. No new lobbies join the server, and people are less likely to manually join because it's at 0/8 instead of 0/4, or because they don't like versus. If I, or my friends, were to join the server and they try to change it to a coop map via the gui, we would find that it's IMPOSSIBLE via the gui. We would then have to rcon and force a map. We could set up a coop lobby and hope we get matched to that server, but the odds of that are very very low. We could use sv_search_key, but that again involves rcon, so I might as well just manually change the map. This doesn't work so well if I'm not around and my friends want to play on my server. They don't have my password, and I'm not giving it to them (well, one of them does...). Of course I can do whatever I want with rcon. The point is I want the server to do a few simple things automatically. I'm not even asking for something difficult. I just want the server to obey the maplist file. Anything involving rcon is NOT a solution. I don't know about you, but I have a full time programming job, and I do not have time to babysit a server, injecting commands into it. Nor do I want to fiddle around with commands while I'm actually playing. I want the server to be a dedicated coop server, open to the public. Or, a server open to the public, with a gui option for ANY user to vote for ANY map (including switching between versus and coop maps). You can't find a solution, can you? There is none. > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:04:13 -0500 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > Inline responses. > > > What about maplists and map cycles? Or mission cycles? > > Typically you should drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the > lobby system and restrict your dedicated server search using sv_search_key > cvar. This is good if you want to create a public lobby but use your > dedicated server. If you're finished playing and want to let others find > your dedicated server you can disable it by clearing the sv_search_key cvar > via rcon (e.g. rcon sv_search_key ""). > > > What about switching between versus and coop maps? > > Why is my server currently on a versus map, when I only have coop maps > > in the maplist, and it starts on the hospital coop mission (via command > > line)? > > Again it should be controlled by the lobby system, but if you joined and > want to switch maps as an admin use the changelevel command. > > For a versus map: > > rcon changelevel l4d_vs_farm01_hilltop > > For a coop map: > > rcon changelevel l4d_hospital01_apartment > > Notice the coop maps don't have _vs_ in the name. If you're interested in > the complete list of maps start typing the changelevel command to let the > console autocomplete with the available maps. Once you've found the desired > map, prepend the command with rcon and you're good to go. > > > There is no way for users to vote for a different map type in the gui. > > There should be. (Then there should be an option for server admins to > > restrict their servers to a specific type or not.) > > Wy?? Lobby system should dictate the gamemode. > > > What about controlling team balance between survivors and zombies in a > > versus map? Too many times I've seen it be 4 survivors vs 2 infected. > > What about controlling the behavior of the director, the hitbox values, > > the max number of infected spawned at any given time, etc.? > > I've seen a good strategy for evening team skill. Change the difficulty > when the stronger team is playing as survivors. This can be done using the > z_difficulty cvar. There are other z_* commands that affect the zombies, > but I haven't used them. > > > My server is up and running fine, except for it randomly switching to > > versus maps when I want coop only. > > So you're fatal flaw here is that you're doing it wrong. Valve wants > everyone to use the lobby system. I know that the steam group server > concept doesn't reflect that, but if you're looking to kick start your > server try creating a public lobby and using the sv_search_key cvar. If > that's not the approach use the changelevel command when you're co
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
http://forums.srcds.com/viewtopic/8879 That link is useless and provides no answers, only the same questions that everyone else is asking. As I just mentioned in my previous post. Despite what settings you add to the server.cfg or how you edit the mapcycle file, Lobby players with Campaign selected can and will still find your server to connect to, even if you think you have it setup as Versus only. The result of this is the server shows 4/8 players on the server and no AI infected will ever spawn (except the Witch)...unless the server admin is micromanaging and can set the cvar to 0 for them. Not to mention the effect it has on the Call A Vote function. > 2) The majority of the population probably prefers playing with their > friends. These are the people that may not belong to a steam group or > community such as yours, so allowing them to choose the campaign/versus mode > and connecting to a server is a good approach. The caveat is that the > admins of public servers lose control to the lobby system. Yea I think we all get that now...but no thanks to Valve for making it clear what they intended...BEFORE the game was released. But I can't even join my own server from a Lobby with friends, or select a specific server for us to join from the Lobby. We finish a map on my server, go back to the Lobby, change campaigns, Start Game...and then we end up on another server. Using sv_search_key is buggy, and a pain in the ass to get everyone to cooperate, let alone have them all get the command right. This also requires the admin to be playing and micromanaging, as putting this string in the server.cfg will pretty much mean that your server is always empty. Sean On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Mike O'Laughlen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > > I may want to set up co-op only because my testing has found that co-op > > only requires less CPU and/or RAM resources. > > > This will probably need to be addressed in a patch, but I found this thread > that discusses restricting the server to versus maps: > > http://forums.srcds.com/viewtopic/8879 > > In addition, why would a "lobby" (I'm still unclear what a lobby is > supposed > > to do that a decent server browser can't) want to connect to a server > that > > doesn't want the traffic? > > > The whole approach to the game was to allow the players to control the > dynamics of their sessions. TF2 and other games in the past were geared > towards the server admins. L4D lobbies solve a lot of issues. > > 1) The game isn't as fun if you are on an empty server (e.g. popping the > server). > 2) The majority of the population probably prefers playing with their > friends. These are the people that may not belong to a steam group or > community such as yours, so allowing them to choose the campaign/versus > mode > and connecting to a server is a good approach. The caveat is that the > admins of public servers lose control to the lobby system. > > So if you wish to restrict your server to coop, make it a private/steam > group only server. Good luck with trying with getting it to pop though > (unless you have a strong community). > > Granted Valve could have accommodated the admins more, but that's typically > why admin mods are created. I would say in the next couple of weeks look > for a L4D version of Beetles_mod (http://www.beetlesmod.com/comm/) or > Mani's > admin mod (http://www.mani-admin-plugin.com/). > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
If anyone wants to help I am setting up a wiki for L4D server documentation here http://gulfy32.com/l4d/tiki-index.php On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:44 PM, shoskins73 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey Mike, and everyone else defending the lack of documentation... > > All of those things that you just responded with answers for...were all > figured out by admins, not you, nor Valve. Valve changed how the server > setup works for Left 4 Dead when it has been essentially the same for 10 > years or so with their MP games. A little heads up on how to setup > properly > would have been nice. > > You know like telling us things like director_no_human_zombies set in the > server.cfg will have adverse effects as they did not intend for people to > setup servers with specific game modes. This cvar alone causes all sorts > of > issues if you try to force the server to go into Versus mode as players > will > still be able to connect from a Lobby even if they are playing Campaign. > > Or that setting z_difficulty should also not be used in the server.cfg > either and is irrelevant when players connect from Lobbies with specified > difficulty setting anyways. And that if the difficulty gets voted on to > change in the game, once the map change, it will revert back to the default > difficulty, messing with peoples Achievements and the game overall. > > The list goes on. A simple short guide/explanation by Valve would have > been > really easy to get out to the community and would have prevented sooo much > frustration with Admins and Game server hosting companies. > > Sean > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Mike O'Laughlen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >wrote: > > > Inline responses. > > > > > What about maplists and map cycles? Or mission cycles? > > > > Typically you should drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the > > lobby system and restrict your dedicated server search using > sv_search_key > > cvar. This is good if you want to create a public lobby but use your > > dedicated server. If you're finished playing and want to let others find > > your dedicated server you can disable it by clearing the sv_search_key > cvar > > via rcon (e.g. rcon sv_search_key ""). > > > > > What about switching between versus and coop maps? > > > Why is my server currently on a versus map, when I only have coop maps > > > in the maplist, and it starts on the hospital coop mission (via command > > > line)? > > > > Again it should be controlled by the lobby system, but if you joined and > > want to switch maps as an admin use the changelevel command. > > > > For a versus map: > > > > rcon changelevel l4d_vs_farm01_hilltop > > > > For a coop map: > > > > rcon changelevel l4d_hospital01_apartment > > > > Notice the coop maps don't have _vs_ in the name. If you're interested > in > > the complete list of maps start typing the changelevel command to let the > > console autocomplete with the available maps. Once you've found the > > desired > > map, prepend the command with rcon and you're good to go. > > > > > There is no way for users to vote for a different map type in the gui. > > > There should be. (Then there should be an option for server admins to > > > restrict their servers to a specific type or not.) > > > > Wy?? Lobby system should dictate the gamemode. > > > > > What about controlling team balance between survivors and zombies in a > > > versus map? Too many times I've seen it be 4 survivors vs 2 infected. > > > What about controlling the behavior of the director, the hitbox values, > > > the max number of infected spawned at any given time, etc.? > > > > I've seen a good strategy for evening team skill. Change the difficulty > > when the stronger team is playing as survivors. This can be done using > the > > z_difficulty cvar. There are other z_* commands that affect the zombies, > > but I haven't used them. > > > > > My server is up and running fine, except for it randomly switching to > > > versus maps when I want coop only. > > > > So you're fatal flaw here is that you're doing it wrong. Valve wants > > everyone to use the lobby system. I know that the steam group server > > concept doesn't reflect that, but if you're looking to kick start your > > server try creating a public lobby and using the sv_search_key cvar. If > > that's not the approach use the changelevel command when you're connected > > to > > the server. > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Hey Mike, and everyone else defending the lack of documentation... All of those things that you just responded with answers for...were all figured out by admins, not you, nor Valve. Valve changed how the server setup works for Left 4 Dead when it has been essentially the same for 10 years or so with their MP games. A little heads up on how to setup properly would have been nice. You know like telling us things like director_no_human_zombies set in the server.cfg will have adverse effects as they did not intend for people to setup servers with specific game modes. This cvar alone causes all sorts of issues if you try to force the server to go into Versus mode as players will still be able to connect from a Lobby even if they are playing Campaign. Or that setting z_difficulty should also not be used in the server.cfg either and is irrelevant when players connect from Lobbies with specified difficulty setting anyways. And that if the difficulty gets voted on to change in the game, once the map change, it will revert back to the default difficulty, messing with peoples Achievements and the game overall. The list goes on. A simple short guide/explanation by Valve would have been really easy to get out to the community and would have prevented sooo much frustration with Admins and Game server hosting companies. Sean On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Mike O'Laughlen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Inline responses. > > > What about maplists and map cycles? Or mission cycles? > > Typically you should drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the > lobby system and restrict your dedicated server search using sv_search_key > cvar. This is good if you want to create a public lobby but use your > dedicated server. If you're finished playing and want to let others find > your dedicated server you can disable it by clearing the sv_search_key cvar > via rcon (e.g. rcon sv_search_key ""). > > > What about switching between versus and coop maps? > > Why is my server currently on a versus map, when I only have coop maps > > in the maplist, and it starts on the hospital coop mission (via command > > line)? > > Again it should be controlled by the lobby system, but if you joined and > want to switch maps as an admin use the changelevel command. > > For a versus map: > > rcon changelevel l4d_vs_farm01_hilltop > > For a coop map: > > rcon changelevel l4d_hospital01_apartment > > Notice the coop maps don't have _vs_ in the name. If you're interested in > the complete list of maps start typing the changelevel command to let the > console autocomplete with the available maps. Once you've found the > desired > map, prepend the command with rcon and you're good to go. > > > There is no way for users to vote for a different map type in the gui. > > There should be. (Then there should be an option for server admins to > > restrict their servers to a specific type or not.) > > Wy?? Lobby system should dictate the gamemode. > > > What about controlling team balance between survivors and zombies in a > > versus map? Too many times I've seen it be 4 survivors vs 2 infected. > > What about controlling the behavior of the director, the hitbox values, > > the max number of infected spawned at any given time, etc.? > > I've seen a good strategy for evening team skill. Change the difficulty > when the stronger team is playing as survivors. This can be done using the > z_difficulty cvar. There are other z_* commands that affect the zombies, > but I haven't used them. > > > My server is up and running fine, except for it randomly switching to > > versus maps when I want coop only. > > So you're fatal flaw here is that you're doing it wrong. Valve wants > everyone to use the lobby system. I know that the steam group server > concept doesn't reflect that, but if you're looking to kick start your > server try creating a public lobby and using the sv_search_key cvar. If > that's not the approach use the changelevel command when you're connected > to > the server. > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
> > I may want to set up co-op only because my testing has found that co-op > only requires less CPU and/or RAM resources. This will probably need to be addressed in a patch, but I found this thread that discusses restricting the server to versus maps: http://forums.srcds.com/viewtopic/8879 In addition, why would a "lobby" (I'm still unclear what a lobby is supposed > to do that a decent server browser can't) want to connect to a server that > doesn't want the traffic? The whole approach to the game was to allow the players to control the dynamics of their sessions. TF2 and other games in the past were geared towards the server admins. L4D lobbies solve a lot of issues. 1) The game isn't as fun if you are on an empty server (e.g. popping the server). 2) The majority of the population probably prefers playing with their friends. These are the people that may not belong to a steam group or community such as yours, so allowing them to choose the campaign/versus mode and connecting to a server is a good approach. The caveat is that the admins of public servers lose control to the lobby system. So if you wish to restrict your server to coop, make it a private/steam group only server. Good luck with trying with getting it to pop though (unless you have a strong community). Granted Valve could have accommodated the admins more, but that's typically why admin mods are created. I would say in the next couple of weeks look for a L4D version of Beetles_mod (http://www.beetlesmod.com/comm/) or Mani's admin mod (http://www.mani-admin-plugin.com/). ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Okay, your opinion has been voiced. Despite the fact that you said you gave up on L4D a few days after release, you're still here repeating the same things. We get it. Great, thanks. The rest of us are going to go be a -community- and build information pools and be constructive. Do I agree with this approach? No. Do I think Valve should properly document their software from Day 1? Yes. But you know what, we don't live in that world, and they have been hearing it since the beginning and it hasn't changed yet, so I really doubt it is going to change any time soon. It's the way they do things, and it's stupid, and it's a pain in the ass, but until Valve stops making great games I doubt they are going to bend over backwards to please the 2 or 3 "OMFG NO DOCS RAGE QUIT VALVE SUX" members on the mailing lists. On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 16:12 -0500, Karl Weckstrom wrote: > Nowhere in the mailing list agreement did it say I could not voice my opinion. > > We server ops contribute time and money to support their releases. Most of my > server infrastructure is dedicated to source-based games. I have every right > to bitch and moan. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of msleeper > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 4:09 PM > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > Yeah, Valve dropped the ball. They should have had their act together, > but they didn't. Why does it warrant an 80 thread discussion about it? > > If you don't want to support the game - why are you still here? > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 15:58 -0500, Karl Weckstrom wrote: > > I sincerely hope you steer clear of any programmer/developer career. This > > isn't how software works. Ever. > > > > Ask anyone who develops software for a living. Heck, ask anyone at VALVE > > that develops software! The question is simple: "How important is > > documentation to a software project?" > > > > To those of you defending valve for their lack of documentation and/or > > configuration examples - let's face it; you already know the answer to > > this, you simply won't admit it in public. > > > > Valve dropped the ball, plain and simple. They know it. You know it. I know > > it. Valve needs to know how we feel about it, or it will be the same crap > > release after release. Proper documentation is PARAMOUNT for having > > maintainable software for all parties involved. It isn't the role of the > > community to document someone else's software. This is clearly in Valve's > > court, and they need to step up. > > > > Then, and only then, will I support this product - because as-is it's a > > junky console game with nothing in it for a gaming community. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of msleeper > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:56 PM > > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > > > Seconding. It has more or less been the community's place in the past to > > explore options that are outside the box, and I don't see why L4D is or > > should be any different. > > > > Want documentation? Play with CVARs and throw you findings up on > > srcds.com or the Developer wiki. Thank you for helping us help you help > > us all. > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 10:09 -0600, Dustin Wyatt wrote: > > > QFT. Documentation complete. > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source > > > > servers, as > > > > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP and > > > > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and you've > > > > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group ID, > > > > and > > > > optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else > > > > needs > > > > doing. > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or vie
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Nowhere in the mailing list agreement did it say I could not voice my opinion. We server ops contribute time and money to support their releases. Most of my server infrastructure is dedicated to source-based games. I have every right to bitch and moan. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of msleeper Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 4:09 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? Yeah, Valve dropped the ball. They should have had their act together, but they didn't. Why does it warrant an 80 thread discussion about it? If you don't want to support the game - why are you still here? On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 15:58 -0500, Karl Weckstrom wrote: > I sincerely hope you steer clear of any programmer/developer career. This > isn't how software works. Ever. > > Ask anyone who develops software for a living. Heck, ask anyone at VALVE that > develops software! The question is simple: "How important is documentation to > a software project?" > > To those of you defending valve for their lack of documentation and/or > configuration examples - let's face it; you already know the answer to this, > you simply won't admit it in public. > > Valve dropped the ball, plain and simple. They know it. You know it. I know > it. Valve needs to know how we feel about it, or it will be the same crap > release after release. Proper documentation is PARAMOUNT for having > maintainable software for all parties involved. It isn't the role of the > community to document someone else's software. This is clearly in Valve's > court, and they need to step up. > > Then, and only then, will I support this product - because as-is it's a junky > console game with nothing in it for a gaming community. > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of msleeper > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:56 PM > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > Seconding. It has more or less been the community's place in the past to > explore options that are outside the box, and I don't see why L4D is or > should be any different. > > Want documentation? Play with CVARs and throw you findings up on > srcds.com or the Developer wiki. Thank you for helping us help you help > us all. > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 10:09 -0600, Dustin Wyatt wrote: > > QFT. Documentation complete. > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source servers, > > > as > > > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP and > > > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and you've > > > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group ID, and > > > optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else needs > > > doing. > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Yeah, Valve dropped the ball. They should have had their act together, but they didn't. Why does it warrant an 80 thread discussion about it? If you don't want to support the game - why are you still here? On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 15:58 -0500, Karl Weckstrom wrote: > I sincerely hope you steer clear of any programmer/developer career. This > isn't how software works. Ever. > > Ask anyone who develops software for a living. Heck, ask anyone at VALVE that > develops software! The question is simple: "How important is documentation to > a software project?" > > To those of you defending valve for their lack of documentation and/or > configuration examples - let's face it; you already know the answer to this, > you simply won't admit it in public. > > Valve dropped the ball, plain and simple. They know it. You know it. I know > it. Valve needs to know how we feel about it, or it will be the same crap > release after release. Proper documentation is PARAMOUNT for having > maintainable software for all parties involved. It isn't the role of the > community to document someone else's software. This is clearly in Valve's > court, and they need to step up. > > Then, and only then, will I support this product - because as-is it's a junky > console game with nothing in it for a gaming community. > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of msleeper > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:56 PM > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > Seconding. It has more or less been the community's place in the past to > explore options that are outside the box, and I don't see why L4D is or > should be any different. > > Want documentation? Play with CVARs and throw you findings up on > srcds.com or the Developer wiki. Thank you for helping us help you help > us all. > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 10:09 -0600, Dustin Wyatt wrote: > > QFT. Documentation complete. > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source servers, > > > as > > > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP and > > > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and you've > > > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group ID, and > > > optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else needs > > > doing. > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
These have been addressed before. I'll go warm up a thread on srcds for you. > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? You cannot; it is by design. The Lobby system handles map decision making. It is somewhat possible to control this by removing the specific BSP files, but this really isn't doing what you want - the Lobby System tells your server to change to X map; it can't find it so it errors out and sends the players elsewhere. This results in having Coop or Versus only play, but is again a huge hack. > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? Not sure what this has to do with Dedicated Server management, it sounds like more of a question for the Steam Forums. But again - you cannot and it is also by design, again because of the Lobby. You started a Coop game, so you will have to leave find a Versus lobby to play a Versus game. On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:55 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > Ideally, documentation is due before the release of a product. > Valve's track record is not an excuse, it's a shame. > > I have problems, I've posted them here, and in other places. > They don't get answered, they go ignored, because no one has an answer. > > How do I make my server coop or versus only? > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? > If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:48:42 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > > > I'm not defending it, I just think it's absurd to be freaking out, up in > > arms about not having it. The game has been out for what, 2 weeks? Has > > Valve EVER had 100% documentation after release? > > > > The people who can't seem to get their stuff working seem to be in the > > minority. If you have problems, email them here, and put notes on a wiki > > or a forum somewhere until Valved EVENTUALLY documents things. > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:31 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > I honestly can't believe the people defending the lack of documentation. > > > This kind of behavior is unheard of in software development. > > > > > > I don't care if running a server was as simple as: > > > > > > 1: Download this file. > > > 2: Run it. > > > > > > Documentation is a fundamental requirement for any programming project. > > > Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. I hope you don't have jobs in the > > > industry, and I pray no accredited university has awarded you a degree in > > > the field. > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:55:41 -0500 > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > > > files? > > > > > > > > Seconding. It has more or less been the community's place in the past to > > > > explore options that are outside the box, and I don't see why L4D is or > > > > should be any different. > > > > > > > > Want documentation? Play with CVARs and throw you findings up on > > > > srcds.com or the Developer wiki. Thank you for helping us help you help > > > > us all. > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 10:09 -0600, Dustin Wyatt wrote: > > > > > QFT. Documentation complete. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source > > > > > > servers, as > > > > > > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP > > > > > > and > > > > > > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and > > > > > > you've > > > > > > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group > > > > > > ID, and > > > > > > optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else > > > > > > needs > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > > > archives, please visit: > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > _ > > > Get more done, have more fun, and stay more connected with Windows > > > Mobile®. > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119642556/direct/01/ > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > _
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Inline responses. > What about maplists and map cycles? Or mission cycles? Typically you should drive the cycle of maps on the server based on the lobby system and restrict your dedicated server search using sv_search_key cvar. This is good if you want to create a public lobby but use your dedicated server. If you're finished playing and want to let others find your dedicated server you can disable it by clearing the sv_search_key cvar via rcon (e.g. rcon sv_search_key ""). > What about switching between versus and coop maps? > Why is my server currently on a versus map, when I only have coop maps > in the maplist, and it starts on the hospital coop mission (via command > line)? Again it should be controlled by the lobby system, but if you joined and want to switch maps as an admin use the changelevel command. For a versus map: rcon changelevel l4d_vs_farm01_hilltop For a coop map: rcon changelevel l4d_hospital01_apartment Notice the coop maps don't have _vs_ in the name. If you're interested in the complete list of maps start typing the changelevel command to let the console autocomplete with the available maps. Once you've found the desired map, prepend the command with rcon and you're good to go. > There is no way for users to vote for a different map type in the gui. > There should be. (Then there should be an option for server admins to > restrict their servers to a specific type or not.) Wy?? Lobby system should dictate the gamemode. > What about controlling team balance between survivors and zombies in a > versus map? Too many times I've seen it be 4 survivors vs 2 infected. > What about controlling the behavior of the director, the hitbox values, > the max number of infected spawned at any given time, etc.? I've seen a good strategy for evening team skill. Change the difficulty when the stronger team is playing as survivors. This can be done using the z_difficulty cvar. There are other z_* commands that affect the zombies, but I haven't used them. > My server is up and running fine, except for it randomly switching to > versus maps when I want coop only. So you're fatal flaw here is that you're doing it wrong. Valve wants everyone to use the lobby system. I know that the steam group server concept doesn't reflect that, but if you're looking to kick start your server try creating a public lobby and using the sv_search_key cvar. If that's not the approach use the changelevel command when you're connected to the server. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
I sincerely hope you steer clear of any programmer/developer career. This isn't how software works. Ever. Ask anyone who develops software for a living. Heck, ask anyone at VALVE that develops software! The question is simple: "How important is documentation to a software project?" To those of you defending valve for their lack of documentation and/or configuration examples - let's face it; you already know the answer to this, you simply won't admit it in public. Valve dropped the ball, plain and simple. They know it. You know it. I know it. Valve needs to know how we feel about it, or it will be the same crap release after release. Proper documentation is PARAMOUNT for having maintainable software for all parties involved. It isn't the role of the community to document someone else's software. This is clearly in Valve's court, and they need to step up. Then, and only then, will I support this product - because as-is it's a junky console game with nothing in it for a gaming community. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of msleeper Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:56 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? Seconding. It has more or less been the community's place in the past to explore options that are outside the box, and I don't see why L4D is or should be any different. Want documentation? Play with CVARs and throw you findings up on srcds.com or the Developer wiki. Thank you for helping us help you help us all. On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 10:09 -0600, Dustin Wyatt wrote: > QFT. Documentation complete. > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source servers, as > > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP and > > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and you've > > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group ID, and > > optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else needs > > doing. > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Ideally, documentation is due before the release of a product. Valve's track record is not an excuse, it's a shame. I have problems, I've posted them here, and in other places. They don't get answered, they go ignored, because no one has an answer. How do I make my server coop or versus only? If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? How can I switch modes (by calling a vote) in game? If I can't do that, is it by design, or is it a bug/omission? > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:48:42 -0500 > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > I'm not defending it, I just think it's absurd to be freaking out, up in > arms about not having it. The game has been out for what, 2 weeks? Has > Valve EVER had 100% documentation after release? > > The people who can't seem to get their stuff working seem to be in the > minority. If you have problems, email them here, and put notes on a wiki > or a forum somewhere until Valved EVENTUALLY documents things. > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:31 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > I honestly can't believe the people defending the lack of documentation. > > This kind of behavior is unheard of in software development. > > > > I don't care if running a server was as simple as: > > > > 1: Download this file. > > 2: Run it. > > > > Documentation is a fundamental requirement for any programming project. > > Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. I hope you don't have jobs in the > > industry, and I pray no accredited university has awarded you a degree in > > the field. > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:55:41 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > > files? > > > > > > Seconding. It has more or less been the community's place in the past to > > > explore options that are outside the box, and I don't see why L4D is or > > > should be any different. > > > > > > Want documentation? Play with CVARs and throw you findings up on > > > srcds.com or the Developer wiki. Thank you for helping us help you help > > > us all. > > > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 10:09 -0600, Dustin Wyatt wrote: > > > > QFT. Documentation complete. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source > > > > > servers, as > > > > > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP > > > > > and > > > > > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and > > > > > you've > > > > > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group > > > > > ID, and > > > > > optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else > > > > > needs > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _ > > Get more done, have more fun, and stay more connected with Windows Mobile®. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119642556/direct/01/ > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_faster_112008 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
It isn't my job to start a wiki page or write valve's documentation. It's THEIR job. Not ours. To defend their lack of documentation is simply absurd. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike O'Laughlen Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:57 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg) Yeah this thread has become unhelpful to anyone but yourself. I don't even see what your problem is except complaining that the Internets aren't structured enough for you. Furthermore, some of these new cvars such as sv_steamgroup and sv_steamgroup_exclusive were added to the product just before release, so any documentation would have be kept up to date. Admins are typically technically savvy and able to google for this information. And the attitude that you need to be compensated to create the appropriate documentation is bollocks. Here's a document on all the cvars (sans sv_steamgroup) http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf If that doesn't help, start a wiki page for l4d cvars/guide. You can even add a link from the Valve developer wiki (not sure if it's the appropriate wiki since its geared towards the SDK devs... but whatever): http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Left_4_dead > > I'm *not* supporting L4D until Valve gets their act together. I made the > > decision a day or two after release and numerous frustrating attempts to > get > > it behaving the way I wanted. > > > > To say "If you can't figure it out, then you shouldn't be a server > > operator" doesn't carry *ANY* weight with me. That's simply a childish > jab > > at best and an excuse for valve at worst. > > > > There is no substitute for proper documentation. <---Read that. Now read > it > > again. Keep reading it until you understand what it means. > > > > Everyone on this list should be *EXPECTING* proper documentation for this > > product. Not begging for it or relying on the few people who managed to > > kinda-sorta figure it out. It's half-assed, and I expect better from > Valve. > > I blindly believed that Valve would do right by server ops. I won't > blindly > > believe that anymore. > > > > Call me a whiner. Call me an attention-craver. I don't care. I *will* > voice > > my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
I'm not defending it, I just think it's absurd to be freaking out, up in arms about not having it. The game has been out for what, 2 weeks? Has Valve EVER had 100% documentation after release? The people who can't seem to get their stuff working seem to be in the minority. If you have problems, email them here, and put notes on a wiki or a forum somewhere until Valved EVENTUALLY documents things. On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 12:31 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > I honestly can't believe the people defending the lack of documentation. > This kind of behavior is unheard of in software development. > > I don't care if running a server was as simple as: > > 1: Download this file. > 2: Run it. > > Documentation is a fundamental requirement for any programming project. > Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. I hope you don't have jobs in the > industry, and I pray no accredited university has awarded you a degree in the > field. > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:55:41 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > > > Seconding. It has more or less been the community's place in the past to > > explore options that are outside the box, and I don't see why L4D is or > > should be any different. > > > > Want documentation? Play with CVARs and throw you findings up on > > srcds.com or the Developer wiki. Thank you for helping us help you help > > us all. > > > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 10:09 -0600, Dustin Wyatt wrote: > > > QFT. Documentation complete. > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source > > > > servers, as > > > > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP and > > > > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and you've > > > > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group ID, > > > > and > > > > optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else > > > > needs > > > > doing. > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _ > Get more done, have more fun, and stay more connected with Windows Mobile®. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119642556/direct/01/ > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
I honestly can't believe the people defending the lack of documentation. This kind of behavior is unheard of in software development. I don't care if running a server was as simple as: 1: Download this file. 2: Run it. Documentation is a fundamental requirement for any programming project. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. I hope you don't have jobs in the industry, and I pray no accredited university has awarded you a degree in the field. > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:55:41 -0500 > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > Seconding. It has more or less been the community's place in the past to > explore options that are outside the box, and I don't see why L4D is or > should be any different. > > Want documentation? Play with CVARs and throw you findings up on > srcds.com or the Developer wiki. Thank you for helping us help you help > us all. > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 10:09 -0600, Dustin Wyatt wrote: > > QFT. Documentation complete. > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source servers, > > > as > > > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP and > > > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and you've > > > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group ID, and > > > optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else needs > > > doing. > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Get more done, have more fun, and stay more connected with Windows Mobile®. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119642556/direct/01/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:06 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:09:54 - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg >files? > To: "'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'" > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > None of this is about documentation. It's about the server being done in a > certain way, and you wishing it was different. Some of the things you are > talking about make good sense to me (there should be a proper lobby for > direct connect / steam group joins, although this is a client issue not a > server one). Some of them should not imo be possible without a server-side > mod (like changing game behaviour like the amount of zombies; can't > remember > offhand if that exists as a cheat command atm or not). Some of them make > no > sense (like wanting to limit to coop or versus only - what's supposed to > happen after a versus lobby has tried to connect to a server that's > restricted the maps to coop only?) > [BIG snip] You're looking at it from the wrong point of view. I've been managing all kinds of servers both as a hobby and professionally for about 25 years. Valve's lack of documentation has historically been pretty bad in comparison to the other app- and game- servers that I've run over that time. L4D seems to take that lack of documentation to an entirely new level. In addition, there does seem to have been no thought put into what server admins (you know, the guys who actually own/rent/maintain the boxes that people play on) might want in terms of control. For example, take the lack of documentation (or capability, no way to tell /because/ we don't have any doc) concerning a simple co-op only or versus only option. I may want to set up co-op only because my testing has found that co-op only requires less CPU and/or RAM resources. (That does seem to be the case, btw, based upon what I've seen for load averages when people play different games.) Or, I may want to set up co-op only server(s) and versus only server(s) because I know that I have people who play on my server who happen to prefer one or the other. You make this statement: "Some of them make no sense (like wanting to limit to coop or versus only - what's supposed to happen after a versus lobby has tried to connect to a server that's restricted the maps to coop only?)" To begin with, if there were clear documentation we'd know if it were possible to prevent that from ever happening in the first place. In addition, why would a "lobby" (I'm still unclear what a lobby is supposed to do that a decent server browser can't) want to connect to a server that doesn't want the traffic? Let me restate that a bit... why would any player want to connect to a server that wasn't set up the way that he wanted to play. Further, why should I let a player or any group of players dictate to me how my server will be run? I paid for it, I maintain it. I don't charge anyone for the privilege of playing on it. I do, however, expect that anyone who plays on my server will play by my rules or leave. I've got 4 L4D servers running right now on a dual CPU box. 3 of the servers are public and 1 is limited to members of a single Steam group. I did my best to set them up as co-op only. I even went so far as to delete the versus maps only to see the automatic update process put them back in (I know, stupid sysadmin trick #47! lol). I've found that when players vote two or more of the servers to run versus maps, there's lag that shows up on all servers. I don't like it, but there it is. Now, take my little example and expand it to cover a vendor renting out hundreds or thousands of servers. If they can't restrict the number of players connecting, then they have no control over the level of service that they provide all of their customers. Simply going from all co-op to all versus doubles the amount of bandwidth that they need to budget because it doubles the number of players. That's such a highly variable demand that it essentially blows their capacity planning out of the water. No vendor is going to be happy with that kind of uncertainty, and will have to find other ways to limit what people can do with an L4D server. No, the lack of documentation, as illustrated in this one simple example, has huge implications for every server admin. Personally, I think Valve is being very shortsighted. If they cause server admins enough pain, they simply will find other games to host. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Seconding. It has more or less been the community's place in the past to explore options that are outside the box, and I don't see why L4D is or should be any different. Want documentation? Play with CVARs and throw you findings up on srcds.com or the Developer wiki. Thank you for helping us help you help us all. On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 10:09 -0600, Dustin Wyatt wrote: > QFT. Documentation complete. > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source servers, as > > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP and > > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and you've > > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group ID, and > > optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else needs > > doing. > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
; > >> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Dr.Stinglock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> We are not paying them (valve) a cent to host servers. > >>> > >>> There is a once payment for the client install though. > >>> > >>> -Original Message- > >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ccfan4326 > >>> Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2008 2:01 PM > >>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > >>> > >> files? > >> > >>> We're the ones paying them and paying for servers to support their > >>> game, is it too much to ask for some decent documentation? > >>> > >>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 7:57 PM, John Du Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> > >> wrote: > >> > >>>> Indeed. Everyone needs to stop whining about this. > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 8:28 PM, msleeper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> > >> wrote: > >> > >>>>> I bet the Valve guys don't either. > >>>>> > >>>>> http://instantrimshot.com/ > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 17:07 -0800, Midnight wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I'd be happy to. My consulting fees are $250/hr, 50% in advance. I > >>>>>> don't work for free sorry. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> gulfy wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sounds like you're up to the challenge. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Midnight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>>>> > >> wrote: > >> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Like he said though, there is not a central consolidated and up > >>>>>>>> > > to > > > >>>>> date > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> list of information about running L4D servers. It shouldn't take > >>>>>>>> > >>> more > >>> > >>>>>>>> than 30 minutes to put together and add to a wiki or forum page. > >>>>>>>> Leaving everyone to their own devices to scour mailing lists and > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> forums > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> looking for answers is pretty unprofessional frankly. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Kevin Ottalini wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> There have been qute a few posts from valve on the linux email > >>>>>>>>> > >> list > >> > >>>>>>>> (about > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> L4D), look there too. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.html > > > >>>>>>>> ___ > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>>> > >>> archives, > >>> > >>>>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ___ > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>> > >>> archives, > >>> > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> > >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> ___ > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list prefe
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
; > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ccfan4326 > > > Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2008 2:01 PM > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and > server.cfg > > files? > > > > > > We're the ones paying them and paying for servers to support their > > > game, is it too much to ask for some decent documentation? > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 7:57 PM, John Du Hart > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > >> Indeed. Everyone needs to stop whining about this. > > >> > > >> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 8:28 PM, msleeper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > >> > > >>> I bet the Valve guys don't either. > > >>> > > >>> http://instantrimshot.com/ > > >>> > > >>> On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 17:07 -0800, Midnight wrote: > > >>> > I'd be happy to. My consulting fees are $250/hr, 50% in > advance. I > > >>> > don't work for free sorry. > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > gulfy wrote: > > >>> > > Sounds like you're up to the challenge. > > >>> > > > > >>> > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Midnight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > >> Like he said though, there is not a central consolidated and > up > to > > >>> date > > >>> > >> list of information about running L4D servers. It shouldn't > take > > > more > > >>> > >> than 30 minutes to put together and add to a wiki or forum > page. > > >>> > >> Leaving everyone to their own devices to scour mailing lists > and > > >>> forums > > >>> > >> looking for answers is pretty unprofessional frankly. > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> Kevin Ottalini wrote: > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >>> There have been qute a few posts from valve on the linux > email > > list > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >> (about > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >>> L4D), look there too. > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > > > > > > http://www.mail- > archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.html > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> ___ > > >>> > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > >>> > >> please visit: > > >>> > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > > ___ > > >>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > ___ > > >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ___ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > > >> ___ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > please visit: > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >> > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > __ NOD32 3638 (20081125) Informatie __ > > Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. > http://www.nod32.nl > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
It's too bad Daitengu let serverwiki.org die ... that was a good place to document anything game server related. Anyone got his phone number and care enough to give him a call? :P I tried sending him an e-mail awhile back but never got a response mauirixxx -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Kellaway Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:44 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? Srcds.com doesn't really go beyond getting the game installed, which is the easiest part (one command-line command, one shell script and a five minute coffee break). I think what people would like to see is a more complete set of documentation on configuring map cycles and MOTDs, the peculiarities of each game, workarounds for any bugs that pop up, etc. It seems there are a lot of "how do I configure x" questions on this list, and they're mostly referring to cvars or files that would be very easy to change if people just knew they existed or how to get at them. -Dave steve grout wrote: > i find srcds.com is all that's needed :) > > David Kellaway wrote: > >> I have some unfinished rough documentation I wrote for myself a while >> back. Would anyone be interested if I were to transfer that into a >> wiki format as a general resource for server stuff? >> >> -Dave >> >> ccfan4326 wrote: >> >>> All I'm saying is it would be nice to have some decent documentation, >>> what's so wrong about that? I'm not trying to whine about it. I can >>> get a server up and running just fine, but some better documentation >>> would make it a lot easier. >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:54 AM, Olly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> They don't make it a pain.. If you don't know how to setup servers, then maybe you shouldn't be doing so. There are 1000's of other servers that are up and working fine without posting a whine thread. 2008/11/25 ccfan4326 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > What I meant is that those who rent and host L4D servers are helping > to support the game. I guess it's not as significant as with > CSS/TF2/etc, but yeah. It's not just Valve either. Why developers tend > to make it a pain for server admins to setup a server for MP-centric > games I do not know. > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 8:28 PM, msleeper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> > >> wrote: > >> > >>>>> I bet the Valve guys don't either. > >>>>> > >>>>> http://instantrimshot.com/ > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 17:07 -0800, Midnight wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I'd be happy to. My consulting fees are $250/hr, 50% in advance. I > >>>>>> don't work for free sorry. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> gulfy wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sounds like you're up to the challenge. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Midnight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>>>> > >> wrote: > >> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Like he said though, there is not a central consolidated and up > >>>>>>>> > > to > > > >>>>> date > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> list of information about running L4D servers. It shouldn't take > >>>>>>>> > >>> more > >>> > >>>>>>>> than 30 minutes to put together and add to a wiki or forum page. > >>>>>>>> Leaving everyone to their own devices to scour mailing lists and > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> forums > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> looking for answers is pretty unprofessional frankly. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Kevin Ottalini wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> There have been qute a few posts from valve on the linux email > >>>>>>>>> > >> list > >> > >>>>>>>> (about > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> L4D), look there too. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.html > > > >>>>>>>> ___ > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>>> > >>> archives, > >>> > >>>>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ___ > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>> > >>> archives, > >>> > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> > >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> ___ > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>> > >> archives, > >> > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> > >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>> > >>>>> ___ > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> ___ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>> > >>> please visit: > >>> > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>> > >>>> > >>> ___ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> > >> please visit: > >> > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>> > >> ___ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > >> > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > __ NOD32 3638 (20081125) Informatie __ > > > > Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. > > http://www.nod32.nl > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
Yeah this thread has become unhelpful to anyone but yourself. I don't even see what your problem is except complaining that the Internets aren't structured enough for you. Furthermore, some of these new cvars such as sv_steamgroup and sv_steamgroup_exclusive were added to the product just before release, so any documentation would have be kept up to date. Admins are typically technically savvy and able to google for this information. And the attitude that you need to be compensated to create the appropriate documentation is bollocks. Here's a document on all the cvars (sans sv_steamgroup) http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf If that doesn't help, start a wiki page for l4d cvars/guide. You can even add a link from the Valve developer wiki (not sure if it's the appropriate wiki since its geared towards the SDK devs... but whatever): http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Left_4_dead > > I'm *not* supporting L4D until Valve gets their act together. I made the > > decision a day or two after release and numerous frustrating attempts to > get > > it behaving the way I wanted. > > > > To say "If you can't figure it out, then you shouldn't be a server > > operator" doesn't carry *ANY* weight with me. That's simply a childish > jab > > at best and an excuse for valve at worst. > > > > There is no substitute for proper documentation. <---Read that. Now read > it > > again. Keep reading it until you understand what it means. > > > > Everyone on this list should be *EXPECTING* proper documentation for this > > product. Not begging for it or relying on the few people who managed to > > kinda-sorta figure it out. It's half-assed, and I expect better from > Valve. > > I blindly believed that Valve would do right by server ops. I won't > blindly > > believe that anymore. > > > > Call me a whiner. Call me an attention-craver. I don't care. I *will* > voice > > my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
t;> >>>>>> gulfy wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sounds like you're up to the challenge. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Midnight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>> >> wrote: >> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Like he said though, there is not a central consolidated and up >>>>>>>> > to > >>>>> date >>>>> >>>>>>>> list of information about running L4D servers. It shouldn't take >>>>>>>> >>> more >>> >>>>>>>> than 30 minutes to put together and add to a wiki or forum page. >>>>>>>> Leaving everyone to their own devices to scour mailing lists and >>>>>>>> >>>>> forums >>>>> >>>>>>>> looking for answers is pretty unprofessional frankly. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kevin Ottalini wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There have been qute a few posts from valve on the linux email >>>>>>>>> >> list >> >>>>>>>> (about >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> L4D), look there too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.html > >>>>>>>> ___ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>> >>> archives, >>> >>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ___ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> >>> archives, >>> >>>>> please visit: >>>>> >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> ___ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> >> archives, >> >>>>> please visit: >>>>> >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ___ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> >>> please visit: >>> >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> >> please visit: >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > __ NOD32 3638 (20081125) Informatie __ > > Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. > http://www.nod32.nl > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Yes, you can change the number of zombies, hitboxes, etc. I was just listing it as an example of undocumented things you can do. This has everything to do with documentation. Documentation is supposed to tell us what does what, what we can change, what we can't change, what the effects are, etc. I want to limit my server to coop only because whenever it becomes a versus server it sits empty, and if i want to play with my friends I have to rcon in and force a map change, or restart it. I don't particularly like the versus mode. If a lobby is set to versus mode, and my server is set to coop only, it shouldn't join my server. As it is, we have NO DOCUMENTATION to tell us what the intended behavior of versus vs coop modes is, the effect of lobbies of a different type trying to join your server, etc. Valve Fails At Documentation. > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:09:54 + > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > None of this is about documentation. It's about the server being done in a > certain way, and you wishing it was different. Some of the things you are > talking about make good sense to me (there should be a proper lobby for > direct connect / steam group joins, although this is a client issue not a > server one). Some of them should not imo be possible without a server-side > mod (like changing game behaviour like the amount of zombies; can't remember > offhand if that exists as a cheat command atm or not). Some of them make no > sense (like wanting to limit to coop or versus only - what's supposed to > happen after a versus lobby has tried to connect to a server that's > restricted the maps to coop only?) > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blood Letter > > Sent: 25 November 2008 16:30 > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > files? > > > > > > What about maplists and map cycles? Or mission cycles? > > What about switching between versus and coop maps? > > > > Why is my server currently on a versus map, when I only have coop maps > > in the maplist, and it starts on the hospital coop mission (via command > > line)? > > There is no way for users to vote for a different map type in the gui. > > There should be. (Then there should be an option for server admins to > > restrict their servers to a specific type or not.) > > > > What about controlling team balance between survivors and zombies in a > > versus map? Too many times I've seen it be 4 survivors vs 2 infected. > > What about controlling the behavior of the director, the hitbox values, > > the max number of infected spawned at any given time, etc.? > > > > My server is up and running fine, except for it randomly switching to > > versus maps when I want coop only. It's not an issue of people being > > unable to set up servers, it's an issue of non-existent documentation > > from Valve. Valve has no documentation. I'm done working for Valve. > > I'm not going > > to support their games with my money, my time, and my servers until > > they support me. > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:09:05 -0600 > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > > files? > > > > > > QFT. Documentation complete. > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source > > servers, as > > > > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP > > and > > > > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and > > you've > > > > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group > > ID, and > > > > optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else > > needs > > > > doing. > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _ > > Proud to be a PC? Show the world. Download the "I'm a PC" Messenger > > themepack now. > > hthttp://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119642558/direct/01/ > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Proud to be a PC? Show the world. Download the “I’m a PC” Messenger themepack now. hthttp:/
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
None of this is about documentation. It's about the server being done in a certain way, and you wishing it was different. Some of the things you are talking about make good sense to me (there should be a proper lobby for direct connect / steam group joins, although this is a client issue not a server one). Some of them should not imo be possible without a server-side mod (like changing game behaviour like the amount of zombies; can't remember offhand if that exists as a cheat command atm or not). Some of them make no sense (like wanting to limit to coop or versus only - what's supposed to happen after a versus lobby has tried to connect to a server that's restricted the maps to coop only?) > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blood Letter > Sent: 25 November 2008 16:30 > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > files? > > > What about maplists and map cycles? Or mission cycles? > What about switching between versus and coop maps? > > Why is my server currently on a versus map, when I only have coop maps > in the maplist, and it starts on the hospital coop mission (via command > line)? > There is no way for users to vote for a different map type in the gui. > There should be. (Then there should be an option for server admins to > restrict their servers to a specific type or not.) > > What about controlling team balance between survivors and zombies in a > versus map? Too many times I've seen it be 4 survivors vs 2 infected. > What about controlling the behavior of the director, the hitbox values, > the max number of infected spawned at any given time, etc.? > > My server is up and running fine, except for it randomly switching to > versus maps when I want coop only. It's not an issue of people being > unable to set up servers, it's an issue of non-existent documentation > from Valve. Valve has no documentation. I'm done working for Valve. > I'm not going > to support their games with my money, my time, and my servers until > they support me. > > > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:09:05 -0600 > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > files? > > > > QFT. Documentation complete. > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source > servers, as > > > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP > and > > > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and > you've > > > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group > ID, and > > > optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else > needs > > > doing. > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _ > Proud to be a PC? Show the world. Download the "I'm a PC" Messenger > themepack now. > hthttp://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119642558/direct/01/ > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Left 4 Dead is a product. To release a product without any documentation to support it, whether its front end or back end - is poor, very poor. How about, Zanussi releasing a washing machine without any manual or support? Or Sony releasing a DVD player without any information on it? Think people would be happy or even buy them? Why doesnt the update tool create a server.cfg that is relevant and completely correct for the game it is updating? Why isnt the update tool configured to just "do it" correctly and save hours and hours and hours of our time? I'd reckon that 80-90% of the questions asked on this list need not be asked if Valve actually recognised that they have an obligation to document and provide support for the product. You'd think, with the brains that are in Valves building right now (very clever brains) and the fact that Gabe's signed checks for 10 million dollars in advertising, someone, just one person, could have been paid to compile and configure and study the product rollout. Not only did we have to pay to be BETA testers in the "o, better pre order this quick" campaign, but now we have to deal with the un-ending problems that we face with just wanting to connect to our own servers and play with our friends. I must have to f**k about for at least 30mins each time i want to set up a game and connect to my servers and play with my friends. Great game, useless marketing (Lombardi) and non-existant product documentation. I think you need a new structure as far as rolling out products go. Server admins are the only reason valve makes good money - because of the sheer time, effort and scale that these non paid (in fact they're out of pocket most of them) put in to this list and the games valves makes. I'd love to see every sever admin turn off their CS:S, TF2 and L4D et al; server for a couple of days and see the flood of crap that would no doubt sling its way into valves mailboxes. Valve, you should have a close knit mailing list aside from this one thats by invitation only. You know who the hardcore clever bods on this are, invite THEM to it and give them free BETAs of your products and test test test it with them WEEKS in advance of any release. IMHO, peace and respect - happy easter, hows the wife and kids? Pat ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
What about maplists and map cycles? Or mission cycles? What about switching between versus and coop maps? Why is my server currently on a versus map, when I only have coop maps in the maplist, and it starts on the hospital coop mission (via command line)? There is no way for users to vote for a different map type in the gui. There should be. (Then there should be an option for server admins to restrict their servers to a specific type or not.) What about controlling team balance between survivors and zombies in a versus map? Too many times I've seen it be 4 survivors vs 2 infected. What about controlling the behavior of the director, the hitbox values, the max number of infected spawned at any given time, etc.? My server is up and running fine, except for it randomly switching to versus maps when I want coop only. It's not an issue of people being unable to set up servers, it's an issue of non-existent documentation from Valve. Valve has no documentation. I'm done working for Valve. I'm not going to support their games with my money, my time, and my servers until they support me. > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:09:05 -0600 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? > > QFT. Documentation complete. > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source servers, as > > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP and > > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and you've > > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group ID, and > > optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else needs > > doing. > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Proud to be a PC? Show the world. Download the “I’m a PC” Messenger themepack now. hthttp://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119642558/direct/01/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
QFT. Documentation complete. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Left4dead servers are very much easier to run than other source servers, as > so much is decided runtime by the matchmaking system... set your IP and > port, edit the motd and host files, and set a custom hostname and you've > pretty much done all that's needed... optionally set a steam group ID, and > optionally make it exclusive, and I'm struggling to think what else needs > doing. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
> wrote: > > >> Indeed. Everyone needs to stop whining about this. > > >> > > >> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 8:28 PM, msleeper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > >> > > >>> I bet the Valve guys don't either. > > >>> > > >>> http://instantrimshot.com/ > > >>> > > >>> On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 17:07 -0800, Midnight wrote: > > >>> > I'd be happy to. My consulting fees are $250/hr, 50% in > advance. I > > >>> > don't work for free sorry. > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > gulfy wrote: > > >>> > > Sounds like you're up to the challenge. > > >>> > > > > >>> > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Midnight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > >> Like he said though, there is not a central consolidated and > up > to > > >>> date > > >>> > >> list of information about running L4D servers. It shouldn't > take > > > more > > >>> > >> than 30 minutes to put together and add to a wiki or forum > page. > > >>> > >> Leaving everyone to their own devices to scour mailing lists > and > > >>> forums > > >>> > >> looking for answers is pretty unprofessional frankly. > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> Kevin Ottalini wrote: > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >>> There have been qute a few posts from valve on the linux > email > > list > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >> (about > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >>> L4D), look there too. > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > > > > > > http://www.mail- > archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.html > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> ___ > > >>> > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > >>> > >> please visit: > > >>> > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > > ___ > > >>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > ___ > > >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ___ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > > >> ___ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > please visit: > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >> > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > __ NOD32 3638 (20081125) Informatie __ > > Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. > http://www.nod32.nl > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
t; >>> > gulfy wrote: > > >>> > > Sounds like you're up to the challenge. > > >>> > > > > >>> > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Midnight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > >> Like he said though, there is not a central consolidated and up > to > > >>> date > > >>> > >> list of information about running L4D servers. It shouldn't > take > > > more > > >>> > >> than 30 minutes to put together and add to a wiki or forum page. > > >>> > >> Leaving everyone to their own devices to scour mailing lists and > > >>> forums > > >>> > >> looking for answers is pretty unprofessional frankly. > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> Kevin Ottalini wrote: > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >>> There have been qute a few posts from valve on the linux email > > list > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >> (about > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >>> L4D), look there too. > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > > > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.html > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> ___ > > >>> > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > >>> > >> please visit: > > >>> > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > > ___ > > >>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > ___ > > >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ___ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > > >> ___ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >> > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > __ NOD32 3638 (20081125) Informatie __ > > Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. > http://www.nod32.nl > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > welcome to the harsh real world. :) Tyrael ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
gt;> > >> than 30 minutes to put together and add to a wiki or forum page. > >>> > >> Leaving everyone to their own devices to scour mailing lists and > >>> forums > >>> > >> looking for answers is pretty unprofessional frankly. > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Kevin Ottalini wrote: > >>> > >> > >>> > >>> There have been qute a few posts from valve on the linux email > list > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> (about > >>> > >> > >>> > >>> L4D), look there too. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>> > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.html > >>> > >> > >>> > >> ___ > >>> > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > >>> > >> please visit: > >>> > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > > ___ > >>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > ___ > >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >> ___ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds __ NOD32 3638 (20081125) Informatie __ Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. http://www.nod32.nl ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] server.cfg
Post your config? On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:10 AM, Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yeah thanks for that it works now > > Will Murray wrote: > > You should try lathering it in butter > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> Can anyone help me? > >> > >> Dean wrote: > >> > >>> its broken :( > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> > >> please visit: > >> > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> ___ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
/hlds > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > > ___ > >>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > ___ > >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >> ___ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds __ NOD32 3638 (20081125) Informatie __ Dit bericht is gecontroleerd door het NOD32 Antivirus Systeem. http://www.nod32.nl ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] server.cfg
Yeah thanks for that it works now Will Murray wrote: > You should try lathering it in butter > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Can anyone help me? >> >> Dean wrote: >> >>> its broken :( >>> >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> >> please visit: >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] server.cfg
You should try lathering it in butter On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Can anyone help me? > > Dean wrote: > > its broken :( > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- Windows Live Messenger Tag: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] server.cfg
Can anyone help me? Dean wrote: > its broken :( > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] server.cfg
its broken :( ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
Srcds.com doesn't really go beyond getting the game installed, which is the easiest part (one command-line command, one shell script and a five minute coffee break). I think what people would like to see is a more complete set of documentation on configuring map cycles and MOTDs, the peculiarities of each game, workarounds for any bugs that pop up, etc. It seems there are a lot of "how do I configure x" questions on this list, and they're mostly referring to cvars or files that would be very easy to change if people just knew they existed or how to get at them. -Dave steve grout wrote: i find srcds.com is all that's needed :) David Kellaway wrote: I have some unfinished rough documentation I wrote for myself a while back. Would anyone be interested if I were to transfer that into a wiki format as a general resource for server stuff? -Dave ccfan4326 wrote: All I'm saying is it would be nice to have some decent documentation, what's so wrong about that? I'm not trying to whine about it. I can get a server up and running just fine, but some better documentation would make it a lot easier. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:54 AM, Olly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: They don't make it a pain.. If you don't know how to setup servers, then maybe you shouldn't be doing so. There are 1000's of other servers that are up and working fine without posting a whine thread. 2008/11/25 ccfan4326 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> What I meant is that those who rent and host L4D servers are helping to support the game. I guess it's not as significant as with CSS/TF2/etc, but yeah. It's not just Valve either. Why developers tend to make it a pain for server admins to setup a server for MP-centric games I do not know. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
i find srcds.com is all that's needed :) David Kellaway wrote: > I have some unfinished rough documentation I wrote for myself a while > back. Would anyone be interested if I were to transfer that into a > wiki format as a general resource for server stuff? > > -Dave > > ccfan4326 wrote: >> All I'm saying is it would be nice to have some decent documentation, >> what's so wrong about that? I'm not trying to whine about it. I can >> get a server up and running just fine, but some better documentation >> would make it a lot easier. >> >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:54 AM, Olly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> They don't make it a pain.. If you don't know how to setup servers, >>> then >>> maybe you shouldn't be doing so. There are 1000's of other servers >>> that are >>> up and working fine without posting a whine thread. >>> >>> 2008/11/25 ccfan4326 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> What I meant is that those who rent and host L4D servers are helping to support the game. I guess it's not as significant as with CSS/TF2/etc, but yeah. It's not just Valve either. Why developers tend to make it a pain for server admins to setup a server for MP-centric games I do not know. > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
I have some unfinished rough documentation I wrote for myself a while back. Would anyone be interested if I were to transfer that into a wiki format as a general resource for server stuff? -Dave ccfan4326 wrote: All I'm saying is it would be nice to have some decent documentation, what's so wrong about that? I'm not trying to whine about it. I can get a server up and running just fine, but some better documentation would make it a lot easier. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:54 AM, Olly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: They don't make it a pain.. If you don't know how to setup servers, then maybe you shouldn't be doing so. There are 1000's of other servers that are up and working fine without posting a whine thread. 2008/11/25 ccfan4326 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> What I meant is that those who rent and host L4D servers are helping to support the game. I guess it's not as significant as with CSS/TF2/etc, but yeah. It's not just Valve either. Why developers tend to make it a pain for server admins to setup a server for MP-centric games I do not know. On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Dr.Stinglock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We are not paying them (valve) a cent to host servers. There is a once payment for the client install though. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ccfan4326 Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2008 2:01 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files? We're the ones paying them and paying for servers to support their game, is it too much to ask for some decent documentation? On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 7:57 PM, John Du Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Indeed. Everyone needs to stop whining about this. On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 8:28 PM, msleeper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I bet the Valve guys don't either. http://instantrimshot.com/ On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 17:07 -0800, Midnight wrote: I'd be happy to. My consulting fees are $250/hr, 50% in advance. I don't work for free sorry. gulfy wrote: Sounds like you're up to the challenge. On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Midnight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Like he said though, there is not a central consolidated and up to date list of information about running L4D servers. It shouldn't take more than 30 minutes to put together and add to a wiki or forum page. Leaving everyone to their own devices to scour mailing lists and forums looking for answers is pretty unprofessional frankly. Kevin Ottalini wrote: There have been qute a few posts from valve on the linux email list (about L4D), look there too. http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.html ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
All I'm saying is it would be nice to have some decent documentation, what's so wrong about that? I'm not trying to whine about it. I can get a server up and running just fine, but some better documentation would make it a lot easier. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:54 AM, Olly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > They don't make it a pain.. If you don't know how to setup servers, then > maybe you shouldn't be doing so. There are 1000's of other servers that are > up and working fine without posting a whine thread. > > 2008/11/25 ccfan4326 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> What I meant is that those who rent and host L4D servers are helping >> to support the game. I guess it's not as significant as with >> CSS/TF2/etc, but yeah. It's not just Valve either. Why developers tend >> to make it a pain for server admins to setup a server for MP-centric >> games I do not know. >> >> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Dr.Stinglock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> > We are not paying them (valve) a cent to host servers. >> > >> > There is a once payment for the client install though. >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ccfan4326 >> > Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2008 2:01 PM >> > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg >> files? >> > >> > We're the ones paying them and paying for servers to support their >> > game, is it too much to ask for some decent documentation? >> > >> > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 7:57 PM, John Du Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >> Indeed. Everyone needs to stop whining about this. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 8:28 PM, msleeper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> I bet the Valve guys don't either. >> >>> >> >>> http://instantrimshot.com/ >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 17:07 -0800, Midnight wrote: >> >>> > I'd be happy to. My consulting fees are $250/hr, 50% in advance. I >> >>> > don't work for free sorry. >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > gulfy wrote: >> >>> > > Sounds like you're up to the challenge. >> >>> > > >> >>> > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Midnight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> Like he said though, there is not a central consolidated and up to >> >>> date >> >>> > >> list of information about running L4D servers. It shouldn't take >> > more >> >>> > >> than 30 minutes to put together and add to a wiki or forum page. >> >>> > >> Leaving everyone to their own devices to scour mailing lists and >> >>> forums >> >>> > >> looking for answers is pretty unprofessional frankly. >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> Kevin Ottalini wrote: >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >>> There have been qute a few posts from valve on the linux email >> list >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >> (about >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >>> L4D), look there too. >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >> >> >>> >> > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.html >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> ___ >> >>> > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> > archives, >> >>> > >> please visit: >> >>> > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > ___ >> >>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> > archives, >> >>> please visit: >> >>> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > ___ >> >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >> >>> please visit: >> >>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ___ >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> >>> please visit: >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >>> >> >> ___ >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> > please visit: >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> > >> > ___ >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> > please visit: >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> > >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> > >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailma
Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg files?
They don't make it a pain.. If you don't know how to setup servers, then maybe you shouldn't be doing so. There are 1000's of other servers that are up and working fine without posting a whine thread. 2008/11/25 ccfan4326 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > What I meant is that those who rent and host L4D servers are helping > to support the game. I guess it's not as significant as with > CSS/TF2/etc, but yeah. It's not just Valve either. Why developers tend > to make it a pain for server admins to setup a server for MP-centric > games I do not know. > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Dr.Stinglock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > We are not paying them (valve) a cent to host servers. > > > > There is a once payment for the client install though. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ccfan4326 > > Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2008 2:01 PM > > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > Subject: Re: [hlds] How about some server instructions and server.cfg > files? > > > > We're the ones paying them and paying for servers to support their > > game, is it too much to ask for some decent documentation? > > > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 7:57 PM, John Du Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> Indeed. Everyone needs to stop whining about this. > >> > >> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 8:28 PM, msleeper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> > >>> I bet the Valve guys don't either. > >>> > >>> http://instantrimshot.com/ > >>> > >>> On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 17:07 -0800, Midnight wrote: > >>> > I'd be happy to. My consulting fees are $250/hr, 50% in advance. I > >>> > don't work for free sorry. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > gulfy wrote: > >>> > > Sounds like you're up to the challenge. > >>> > > > >>> > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Midnight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > >> Like he said though, there is not a central consolidated and up to > >>> date > >>> > >> list of information about running L4D servers. It shouldn't take > > more > >>> > >> than 30 minutes to put together and add to a wiki or forum page. > >>> > >> Leaving everyone to their own devices to scour mailing lists and > >>> forums > >>> > >> looking for answers is pretty unprofessional frankly. > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Kevin Ottalini wrote: > >>> > >> > >>> > >>> There have been qute a few posts from valve on the linux email > list > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> (about > >>> > >> > >>> > >>> L4D), look there too. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>> > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/maillist.html > >>> > >> > >>> > >> ___ > >>> > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > >>> > >> please visit: > >>> > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > > ___ > >>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > ___ > >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >> ___ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] L4D: Cross-Platform Multiplayer
> > "Games for Windows Live." > Epic fail 2008/11/25 ccfan4326 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cross-platform FPS problems aren't really an issue when you're playing > co-op with friends though. Even if a friend of mine is gimped or has > an advantage due to auto-aim or whatever, I'm not really going to > care, I'm just going to have fun playing with them. An option to allow > Xbox players in friends-only games would be cool, but I doubt it'd > happen since it doesn't use Games for Windows Live. > > On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Jonah Hirsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Cross-platform FPSs just don't work, since PC gamers have such an > > advantage with the mouse and keyboard. Accuracy and agile movement is so > > much more increased with a mouse and keyboard over an analog controller. > > > > [??R] The-/ >> Halo 2 for PC is also, possibly gears but I don't think so. but you have > >> to have an xbox live silver account or something just to play multi for > >> pc, kinda stupid but PC players always get kicked from servers for > >> "hacking" aka just using a mouse and keybo i say suck it console > players > >> > >> Burton Johnsey wrote: > >> > >>> I think Shadowrun might be the only game that is... > >>> > >>> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 3:21 PM, Jake E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > Is COD4/5? or anytihng? lol > > On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Yatin Vadhia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > I wish > > > > Regards > > > > Yatin > > > > On 23 Nov 2008, at 22:49, "Jake E" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Is the Left4Dead multiplayer cross-platform so that a PC player can > >> play > >> with an XBOX 360 player? > >> ___ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> archives, please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > >> > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > >>> ___ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> ___ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > >> > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
