Re: HFS file questions
In 4d59a9f4.3050...@bremultibank.com.pl, on 02/14/2011 at 11:17 PM, R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl said: We are here TO HELP EACH OTHER AND TO LEARN FROM OTHER'S RESPONSES. How does responding to a message soley to whine about a correct further either of those goals? c) start new war PKB. just to How does lying about others' motivations futher your alleged goals? f.) Request clarification. g.) Attempt to infer the intent, point out the error and respond based on the infered intent. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A better abbreviation (Was: HFS file questions)
In a6b9336cdb62bb46b9f8708e686a7ea005d9901...@nrhmms8p02.uicnrh.dom, on 02/14/2011 at 11:51 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com said: Or that AIX port that ran on the S/390 whose name I can't recall off-hand. My recollection is that there was an AIX/370 and an AIX/ESA, neither of which used the code base from the RS/6000 version. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Etre épéegrammatic (Was: HFS file questions)
indeed. I found my own fencing much easier in the fencing hall than in the bruy
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
Chris Mason
Sent: Tuesday, 15 February, 2011 01:25 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Etre épéegrammatic (Was: HFS file questions)
Tuco
If we are to levitate our contributions with the yeast of jest:
In his time Jean de la Bruyère had a rather more effective remedy at his
disposal assuming he was assured of greater skill than his detractor. Of
course, he should make his stand on de la pelouse ou de l'herbe rather than de
la bruyère.
Chris Mason
On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:10:57 -0500, Bonno, Tuco t...@cio.sc.gov
wrote:
It's sad that a very few knowledgeable and otherwise professional people
here feel the need to engage in pissing contests over such insignificant
minutiae as a perceived malappropriation of an overloaded acronym at the
expense of someone who asks a legitimate question.
it is indeed a great misfortune neither to have enough wit to speak well, nor
enough judgement to remain silent
Jean de La Bruyère, (my favorite 17th century french epigrammist)
if you don't have anything worthwhile to say lieutenant, then just shut the
f*ck up
Captain-who-shall-remain-nameless, my favorite mentor, somewhere in
the Mekong Delta, 1971
/s/ tuco bonno;
Graduate, College of Conflict Management;
University of SouthEast Asia;
I partied on the Ho Chi Minh Trail - tiến lên !!
--
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Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
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Re: A better abbreviation (Was: HFS file questions)
roflmao thnx I needed a laugh IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu wrote on 02/14/2011 09:01:06 PM: From: Ron Hawkins ron.hawkins1...@sbcglobal.net Well, I think the whole subject zUX. - The information contained in this communication (including any attachments hereto) is confidential and is intended solely for the personal and confidential use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review, dissemination, copying, or unauthorized use of this information, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. Thank you -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Linda Mooney Hi Peter, No, I was not aware of that list, just this one and the Marist VM list - through Share and zNextGen. Are you suggesting that I leave this list and go there? I won't presume to speak for Peter, but will say that you need not leave this list unless you're fed up with all the irrelevant BS that has attached to your questions in this thread. The MVS-OE forum, as its name implies, is more centered around the UNIX side of z/OS, and has a MUCH higher signal-to-noise ratio than IBM-MAIN. It's sad that a very few knowledgeable and otherwise professional people here feel the need to engage in pissing contests over such insignificant minutiae as a perceived malappropriation of an overloaded acronym at the expense of someone who asks a legitimate question. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Typo corrected! I am reminded once again of the pitfalls of attempting written humor with an international audience. How embarrassing. You got me. We use to say that a joke that has to be explained is no longer funny. However, you just proved that this does not hold true in every case. I'm still smiling about your joke, now that I got it. ~~~ -- Peter Hunkeler CREDIT SUISSE AG -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
It's sad that a very few knowledgeable and otherwise professional people here
feel the need to engage in pissing contests over such insignificant
minutiae as a perceived malappropriation of an overloaded acronym at the
expense of someone who asks a legitimate question.
it is indeed a great misfortune neither to have enough wit to speak well, nor
enough judgement to remain silent
Jean de La Bruyère, (my favorite 17th century french epigrammist)
if you don't have anything worthwhile to say lieutenant, then just shut the
f*ck up
Captain-who-shall-remain-nameless, my favorite mentor, somewhere in the
Mekong Delta, 1971
/s/ tuco bonno;
Graduate, College of Conflict Management;
University of SouthEast Asia;
I partied on the Ho Chi Minh Trail - tiến lên !!
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
On 2/14/2011 5:07 AM, Chase, John wrote: I won't presume to speak for Peter, but will say that you need not leave this list unless you're fed up with all the irrelevant BS that has attached to your questions in this thread. The MVS-OE forum, as its name implies, is more centered around the UNIX side of z/OS, and has a MUCH higher signal-to-noise ratio than IBM-MAIN. MVS-OE is where I go to discuss z/OS UNIX-related issues. It's a more targeted discussion and the level of z/OS UNIX expertise there is higher than on IBM-MAIN. It's sad that a very few knowledgeable and otherwise professional people here feel the need to engage in pissing contests over such insignificant minutiae as a perceived malappropriation of an overloaded acronym at the expense of someone who asks a legitimate question. Most news readers and email clients allow you to manage so-called kill lists. I use Mozilla Thunderbird. Its Message Filters feature can be easily set up to automatically direct messages from certain email addresses directly into the Trash folder. And, the Trash can be emptied automatically on exit! It's amazing how much quieter and more professional IBM-MAIN can be if you filter out the mail from just three troublesome contributors. Of course, you will still see their comments if others quote them; nothing is perfect. :-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
In listserv%201102120611274179.0...@bama.ua.edu, on 02/12/2011 at 06:11 AM, Mary Anne Matyaz maryanne4...@gmail.com said: Can we not simply realize that there are two meanings for the acronym USS and deal with it? Message-ID: 4a6f2d35.2080...@us.ibm.com -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
In listserv%201102111610019238.0...@bama.ua.edu, on 02/11/2011 at 04:10 PM, Peter Hunkeler peter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com said: First, if you want to be correct, this is called z/OS UNIX System Services. In OS/390? Or were you under the impression that it first surfaced in z/OS? Second, USS is nowadays commonly being used as the abbreviation for the above mentioned z/OS component. Look at IBM manuals, look at APARs, look at HealthChecker, to name but a few. John Eells knows more about the legitimacy of that than you do. See, ie.e, Message-ID: 4a6f2d35.2080...@us.ibm.com. No offence intended, but I'm getting sick of this repeated, useless posts. PKB. My post was about copytree; it was neither repeated nor useless. Yours, OTOH, was both repetitious and useless. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
In of23453a55.73fc164a-on85257836.006d58ff-85257836.006f4...@us.ibm.com, on 02/13/2011 at 03:15 PM, Jim Mulder d10j...@us.ibm.com said: Instead of an industry standard icon such as :-) to indicate humor, I used a quote from a fictional character on a recent episode of a popular situation comedy show on American television. Nor is it safe to assume that every resident of a country watches the local sitcoms. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
LOL. You can post all the links you want, the simple fact of the matter is, USS IS the Acronym, or more precisely, the initialism of Unix Systems Services. Your argument is actually whether it's an 'approved' acronym. Personally, I don't really care. Unix Systems Services is too damn long and I will continue to use USS. (The initialism, not the acronym). :) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
I would hope that context would make it clear (as it is here since HFS in IBM-MAIN is unique and unlikely to refer the MAC OS HFS filesystem) as to whether a question is about UNIX or VTAM. Unfortunately, at times, I have seen a message similar to the following: Problem with USS. Please help!!! and that is the complete message. Of course, being the louse that I am, I simply ignore those messages. If I cannot understand the question, or even the context into which the question should be placed, I ignore it completely. And the above example, I don't know if the person is having a problem with z/OS VTAM, z/OS UNIX, z/VM VTAM or the U.S. Navy. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Mary Anne Matyaz Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 10:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions LOL. You can post all the links you want, the simple fact of the matter is, USS IS the Acronym, or more precisely, the initialism of Unix Systems Services. Your argument is actually whether it's an 'approved' acronym. Personally, I don't really care. Unix Systems Services is too damn long and I will continue to use USS. (The initialism, not the acronym). :) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
A better abbreviation (Was: HFS file questions)
John Having just spent a hour or so dealing with a *real* - VTAM - problem - are there any others out there? - I peeked at the archives - since I'm an archives man for IBM-MAIN, none of your floods of e-mails, thank you - and spotted a post from Mary Anne Matyaz - whose name will be forever bound with the ambiguity at the heart of this topic whether she like it or not - and you. Opening hers first I saw that she was determined firmly to stand on the quicksand and her excuse was the shortness of a 3-letter acronym versus 20 keystrokes (including the blanks). Since it seemed possible you were about to reply to this, I anticipated you would reiterate your adherence to z/OS UNIX, down to 9 characters including the blank. Disappointment! Then I wondered whether or not you had ever encountered zUNIX - 5 characters and getting quite close to the so much favoured 3 characters - which I think I saw suggested somewhere and found actually used in an APAR. Perhaps the 5-character zUNIX is what Mary Anne needs to rescue her from the slough of ambiguity. Incidentally, your sample ambiguous Subject can go as far as including the word command or message and still beguile the wrong audience. If I cannot understand the question, or even the context into which the question should be placed, I ignore it completely. I believe the list wouldn't work if we didn't all follow this precept. Talk about flood of e-mails! Chris Mason On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:28:40 -0600, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: I would hope that context would make it clear (as it is here since HFS in IBM- MAIN is unique and unlikely to refer the MAC OS HFS filesystem) as to whether a question is about UNIX or VTAM. Unfortunately, at times, I have seen a message similar to the following: Problem with USS. Please help!!! and that is the complete message. Of course, being the louse that I am, I simply ignore those messages. If I cannot understand the question, or even the context into which the question should be placed, I ignore it completely. And the above example, I don't know if the person is having a problem with z/OS VTAM, z/OS UNIX, z/VM VTAM or the U.S. Navy. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Mary Anne Matyaz Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 10:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions LOL. You can post all the links you want, the simple fact of the matter is, USS IS the Acronym, or more precisely, the initialism of Unix Systems Services. Your argument is actually whether it's an 'approved' acronym. Personally, I don't really care. Unix Systems Services is too damn long and I will continue to use USS. (The initialism, not the acronym). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A better abbreviation (Was: HFS file questions)
zUNIX is pretty decent. I hadn't seen it before. And it's only two more characters than USS with little chance of misunderstanding or collision at this point. I like it! I may start using it. And hope nobody confuses it with z/Linux. Or that AIX port that ran on the S/390 whose name I can't recall off-hand. John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A better abbreviation (Was: HFS file questions)
John And hope nobody confuses it with z/Linux. Well Google does! Try Googling zUNIX IBM. Google does its Are you having finger-trouble? trick! Or that AIX port that ran on the S/390 ... ... whose name I can't recall off-hand. Which may be all you need not to have to worry about it! Chris Mason On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:51:18 -0600, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: zUNIX is pretty decent. I hadn't seen it before. And it's only two more characters than USS with little chance of misunderstanding or collision at this point. I like it! I may start using it. And hope nobody confuses it with z/Linux. Or that AIX port that ran on the S/390 whose name I can't recall off-hand. John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Hi Ed, snip Most news readers and email clients allow you to manage so-called kill lists. snip Good idea! I use my ISP's client so that I have 'equal' access to all of my mail from whatever PC I happen to be on, but I shall look into setting up filters there. Thanks, Linda - Original Message - From: Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 6:38:48 AM Subject: Re: HFS file questions On 2/14/2011 5:07 AM, Chase, John wrote: I won't presume to speak for Peter, but will say that you need not leave this list unless you're fed up with all the irrelevant BS that has attached to your questions in this thread. The MVS-OE forum, as its name implies, is more centered around the UNIX side of z/OS, and has a MUCH higher signal-to-noise ratio than IBM-MAIN. MVS-OE is where I go to discuss z/OS UNIX-related issues. It's a more targeted discussion and the level of z/OS UNIX expertise there is higher than on IBM-MAIN. It's sad that a very few knowledgeable and otherwise professional people here feel the need to engage in pissing contests over such insignificant minutiae as a perceived malappropriation of an overloaded acronym at the expense of someone who asks a legitimate question. Most news readers and email clients allow you to manage so-called kill lists. I use Mozilla Thunderbird. Its Message Filters feature can be easily set up to automatically direct messages from certain email addresses directly into the Trash folder. And, the Trash can be emptied automatically on exit! It's amazing how much quieter and more professional IBM-MAIN can be if you filter out the mail from just three troublesome contributors. Of course, you will still see their comments if others quote them; nothing is perfect. :-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
W dniu 2011-02-14 17:28, McKown, John pisze: I would hope that context would make it clear (as it is here since HFS in IBM-MAIN is unique and unlikely to refer the MAC OS HFS filesystem) as to whether a question is about UNIX or VTAM. Unfortunately, at times, I have seen a message similar to the following: Problem with USS. Please help!!! and that is the complete message. Of course, being the louse that I am, I simply ignore those messages. If I cannot understand the question, or even the context into which the question should be placed, I ignore it completely. And the above example, I don't know if the person is having a problem with z/OS VTAM, z/OS UNIX, z/VM VTAM or the U.S. Navy. Let's assume the following example Topic: IEBGENER errors Content: when I'm trying to use IEBGENER to copy a dataset from tape to disk I get B37 reason code. Please help how to fix IEBGENER. (all the funnies intended, no JCL code provided, in further response we will see allocation TRK,1 in SYSUT1) What can we do with such question: a) ignore b) try to help despite the topic is wrong, description is bad too. We are here TO HELP EACH OTHER AND TO LEARN FROM OTHER'S RESPONSES. c) start new war just because it's not IEBGENER problem, B37 is not a reason - it's abend code, discuss what is official definition of 'abend' the 'reason code', finally start personal attacks. d) stay cryptic, just to show other that I know the answer, but the question is wrong. ITYM, OTOH, FSVO, it's not my dog and malicious remarks are welcome. e) combination of d) and c) I prefer b), sometimes a). Last but not least: if you really don't know what meaning of acronym/initialism is meant then ...you probably simply don't know the answer. Maybe because you don't know the problem, maybe the problem is not described well enough. Example: CSI problem. I have a problem with CSI. It's full. Can I alter it to be mutlivolume? Can it be Extended Addressability? (hint: CSI has two Very_Official_IBM_Approved_Meanings). Quiz: is the above about dataset used in SMP/e or rather Catalog Search Interface? Rhetorical: would it hurt to start the anser in the folowing manner: I assume you mean SMP/E CSI dataset. You can... -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland P.S. I like mail filtering. I did it for some USS warrior many moons ago. Everytime I see his responses quoted in other's mails I see it was good decision. I lose nothing except acerbities (taken from dictionary, I hope in proper meaning). -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 16.07.2010 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.248.328 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
I was getting hounded by a bunch of users report SB37s abends. I kept telling everyone I can't fix your JCL to allocate enough space to hold your data. Increase your allocation amount. They kept seeing the message listing the volume counts for excluded volumes and offline volumes. The storage group had 49% free but their allocation amounts compared to data amounts were so small they went through all the online volumes for all 16 extents and still didn't have enough space. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:17 PM, R.S. deleted I get B37 reason code. Please help how to fix IEBGENER. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Extended format. And no, I'm not being cryptic, really :) I changed my default DATACLAS to use extended format. Most x37s went away. I do need to specify the NOEXTEND DATACLAS for some system and DB files. Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State University -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Mike Schwab Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 2:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions I was getting hounded by a bunch of users report SB37s abends. I kept telling everyone I can't fix your JCL to allocate enough space to hold your data. Increase your allocation amount. They kept seeing the message listing the volume counts for excluded volumes and offline volumes. The storage group had 49% free but their allocation amounts compared to data amounts were so small they went through all the online volumes for all 16 extents and still didn't have enough space. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:17 PM, R.S. deleted I get B37 reason code. Please help how to fix IEBGENER. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Some sort of discussion regarding B37 (Was: HFS file questions)
Mike (and Dave) I'm not much of a specialist in HFS file matters but I think I noticed enough in earlier posts in this thread when the original subject was still under discussion - even if only, when there were accusations that the original subject was *not* under discussion, to argue that it actually was and the liberal vituperations were unwarranted - to recognise when something was being said about the original subject. Actually I see this is still about space problems but hasn't HFS got lost? I say this only because I got some stick earlier in the thread over the fact I wasn't talking about the original subject although it was in response to a slightly off-subject incidental matter that pure chance brought to my attention that I had no expectation would become a mountain of invective from a molehill of not quite right. Nobody launching into their tirades had the decency actually to change the subject and it became one of the writs taken out against me that I had caused the ongoing lack of response to the original question. There's no justice in this world ... Of course, if you want to ask when was the subject matter of a thread ever used as a constraint on the wanderings of the discussion, I would have to say probably never and it happens only rarely that someone with nothing better to do suddenly realises that his or her contribution may as well involve a subject change. Chris Mason On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 16:22:37 -0600, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com wrote: I was getting hounded by a bunch of users report SB37s abends. I kept telling everyone I can't fix your JCL to allocate enough space to hold your data. Increase your allocation amount. They kept seeing the message listing the volume counts for excluded volumes and offline volumes. The storage group had 49% free but their allocation amounts compared to data amounts were so small they went through all the online volumes for all 16 extents and still didn't have enough space. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:17 PM, R.S. deleted I get B37 reason code. Please help how to fix IEBGENER. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A better abbreviation (Was: HFS file questions)
Well, I think the whole subject zUX. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Mason Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 10:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] A better abbreviation (Was: HFS file questions) John And hope nobody confuses it with z/Linux. Well Google does! Try Googling zUNIX IBM. Google does its Are you having finger-trouble? trick! Or that AIX port that ran on the S/390 ... ... whose name I can't recall off-hand. Which may be all you need not to have to worry about it! Chris Mason -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A better abbreviation (Was: HFS file questions)
On 2/14/2011 7:01 PM, Ron Hawkins wrote: Well, I think the whole subject zUX. ROTFL! Right. Let's keep some perspective here! -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Ed I hope you don't mind the resetting of the Subject since this subdiscussion has no connection with list etiquette. ... I am afraid IBM can do whatever it wants to with acronyms. But the *official* IBM line - obviously not counting the numerous stray moggies - is that VTAM laid a claim to USS in the mid-1970s and that claim has *not* lapsed through lack of use given that the IP partner in the Communications Server consortium is opening up a new seam richly mined to this day. I can't stand it either and you always have to step back and think context when it comes to USS. Perhaps we can stand together, make a lot of fuss, gather some like minds and shoo out the USS for z/OS UNIX dictatorship! Hell if I thought I could get away with it I would not allow LE on my system. The term pet-peeve has been used to denigrate what it was thought - not really correctly - I have been on about. However, I did go over in my mind what other pet-peeves I could add to this supposed one - and came up with a few - a bit specialised however, for example PU 2.1, Ugh!, or FEP, Ugh again! Maybe the protest could be organised as the revolt of the pet- peeves. The only difficulty I see there is one which also mimics my obvious allusion.[1] The difficulty would be that one man's pet-peeve is another man's brilliant innovation and the protesters could fall out among themselves - which tends to be the fate of anarchists. Heck IBM has got the people on the OE list wanting to stay with command line over either GUI or ISPF. Back in the early 1990s, I was tasked with managing an education class based on the AIX IP network management product - which happened to be called NetView/6000, later NetView for AIX, and probably my suit imagined that, since I knew every last nook and cranny of MVS NetView, I was ideally suited - pun! - to move into NetView/6000. Of course, they were(/are) massively different products! Managing and giving this new class involved getting to know the AIX/traditional UNIX world. This was great fun but I became aware of a phenomenon which put me in mind of science fiction films where an ostensibly human being is strapped in a chamber, surrounded by some opaque gas and comes out still looking the same but, in effect, now belonging to another race of, say, super-human beings - still looking the same apart from a certain expression around the eyes, that is. In order too prepare for the class and get some assistance, I started working with these UNIX beings. It became clear that no task was too complex that it couldn't be performed by stringing together a series of UNIX commands, the output of one becoming the input to the next to the right and magically the answer appeared, all the typing having happened far too quickly for the definitely mere mortals to follow. All together now: They can't take that away from me. Chris Mason [1] For the archives, this is being written on the weekend following the resignation of Hosni Mubarak. On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 21:38:14 -0800, Ed Gould ps2...@yahoo.com wrote: Chris: I m not one that agrees with Ted. When it comes to USS I sort of agree with him BUT I am afraid IBM can do whatever it wants to with acronyms. I can't stand it either and you always have to setp back and think context when it comes to USS. The IBM people especially when it comes to FTP and other open system services came on board and violated practically every IBM standard. The standards we had argued for years about the OS people just said we aren't going to follow no stinkin standards here are ours and if you don't like it tough .The other people, LE are much the same way. Hell if I thought I could get away with it I would not allow LE on my system. I would much rather have some other vendors code other than LE if I had my choice. I would also look at other vendors for FTP. Anything to stay away from the damn open systems people. Heck IBM has got the people on the OE list wanting to stay with command line over either GUI or ISPF. Just wait 10 years and those same people will be so damn tired of commandline that they will be begging IBM for something else. I suspect when IBM releases a GUI on the mainframe it will be fun watching everyone back track. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
USS misuse again (Was: HFS file questions)
Rob Note that I am keeping to the principle of trying to apply an appropriate Subject since we are now one hopes - moving away from the etiquette issue. First I'd like to apologise for a word error. I used principle rather than principal as a kind gentleman pointed out privately. Never let it be said I doo not apologise when an apology is due! I would only recommend to the others on the list that non-engagement is probably the only successful strategy. I would imagine each and every person subscribing to the list can speak for himself or herself needing no assistance whatsoever in any sort of strategy for whatever aim he or she may happen to have. And to leave you to your opinion of USS. You are having a hard time separating two topics here: 1. I don't have an opinion regarding USS, I merely state facts. 2. By misunderstanding my initial contribution in this thread, you have manoeuvred me into categorising the circumstances in which the misuse of USS could be considered acceptable. That's where my opinion backed by cogent - I would hope - argument comes in. I would additionally ask that when you experience any outrage about USS uses, that you would channel the outrage into a new post. You are still suffering the red mist. I don't want to have to provide a commentary on that initial contribution that leaves no room for the misunderstandings that you particularly have heaped upon it. Please just read it again with your initial instinct that it was designed to be humorous and principally to correct the miniscule error of session having been substituted for system with an afterthought that it wasn't all that necessary since the misuse aspect was already tacitly covered earlier in the thread. If I am prompted for whatever reason to contribute a response and that even marginally involves the misuse of USS according to the facts I have repeated a number of times now which you seem incapable of checking out, I will do so even if, as in this case, it reduces to a single adjective and a single noun upon which you have constructed opprobrium. The same applies to another pet-peeve which is the pernicious use of issue, typically issues, when those responsible for maintaining euphemistically neutral language would more accurately use the word problem - but that would be yet another tangent! It occurs to me that you mentally transferred the words travesty and malapropism to a supposed reference to the *use* of USS and not to its incorrect *expansion* in the correct VTAM context to include the word session rather than system. If you had taken the trouble properly to digest my response to Mary Anne Matyaz you would have realised that the latter applied rather than the former - not quite 100% in the case of malapropism which is a very mild word for criticism. And, by the way, the tongue was undecided over whether it was in the left or the right cheek when the words travesty and malapropism popped out. So the only outrage was the outrage you imagined. I do appreciate you finally starting your own thread. Actually I took needing to reply to Ted MacNeil's rudeness as an opportunity to take a dig at your relentless use of USS and nonsense in reference to the tangent the thread had taken regarding the existence of the MVS-OE list. I guess you haven't put your irony antennae back up yet! I can only say that you have not dissuaded me one bit from my current use of USS. If you use it according to the considerations I mentioned before, you should be safe but, if you have any respect for your fellow contributors - especially those from China and India we are seeing more and more in these discussion groups, you will strive to remove all possibility of ambiguity and that means using a term such as z/OS UNIX. I have the following take aways: ... 2) ... So a campaign to have the official use changed! What did they do with claim-jumpers in the Old West? I seem to remember the good citizens upholding the law found some rope and looked for the one remaining tree - or something like that! And what about a Mary X when she refers to an USS screen in a story about some security exposure and an Howard Y jumps in and asks what it has to do with UNIX System Services and the Mary is obliged to point out that the story dates from before Rob Schramm's successful campaign to have the initials formally changed from the VTAM use to the UNIX use so that any reference to USS which isn't current needs a date to be affixed to be sure to which era it belongs? All a bit ridiculous don't you think? - when compared to the lack of complexities and ambiguities of z/OS UNIX or, let's be adventurous, zUNIX, that we can use today without needing to bother the IBM immortals to hold a conference. Chris Mason [1] I should take this to the protest I am organising with Ed! On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:26:55 -0500, Rob Schramm rob.schr...@gmail.com wrote: Chris, I would only recommend to
USS misuse again (Was: HFS file questions)
Jim I had all of this in draft before you confessed. Nevertheless, there is many a true word spoken in jest so I'll let it all stand - although there's a supposition that has become a bit pointless ... - Thank you for your emollient contribution. I hope you don't mind the resetting of the Subject since this subdiscussion has no connection with list etiquette. Perhaps some form of hybrid acronym like zUSS could serve as being both highly compact and descriptive, while avoiding potential confusion with prior art. However, applying Occam's razor, I see no need to invent yet another abbreviation when as John McKown indicated a perfectly satisfactory one already exists which offers no room for misunderstanding, namely z/OS UNIX - although I think I've seen the contraction to zUNIX suggested - which weighs in as only one letter more than your suggestion. Having noted John McKown's reiteration that z/OS UNIX is the preferred abbreviation for z/OS UNIX System Services - dropping the words which really add almost nothing to an understanding of what the component is all about, I realised that actually no such alternative exists for VTAM's Unformatted System Services. That in itself should clarify the minds of the fair-minded among us - which I fear, from the evidence of a number of skirmishes around this topic, is not an universal set. Furthermore, it could establish a precedent for selecting acronyms for describing similar interface layers on other platforms. Some might even consider such acronyms to be apropos, especially with regard to a widely user operating system on x86. I'm sure you have the kernel - a play on words detected only after composition! - of a fine idea here but it may be you have assumed some similarity between USS as used in the VTAM context since the mid-1970s and USS as misused in the context of the official UNIX in the MVS environment, emerging in 1993, which eventually came to be known as z/OS UNIX System Services sometime later. The only commonality between the two is the use of the general purpose words system and services. Unfortunately Unformatted has the same initial letter as unified or united which may - the Wikipedia article only hints [1] - be the source of the initial letter of Unics which became Unix - or probably incorrectly - there I go again! - UNIX incorrect because it is not a short form for four words with initial letters U, N, I and X. It is possible however - as might happen in a thread Subject line - to refer to an USS *command* which could be confused with the commands of the UNIX environment and to refer to an USS *message* which could be confused with some reference to output messages pertaining to the UNIX environment. It actually happened eighteen months ago in a thread I was following because it appeared likely to involve the Communications Server (CS), IP and/or SNA (VTAM), components with the Subject line Mainframe hacking.[2] An uss screen was mentioned which was a perfectly correct reference to VTAM's USS but was taken as a reference to z/OS UNIX System Services which mistake, because from other posts I know the poor deluded contributor is quite familiar with CS, can only have been made because of the hijack effect Ted MacNeil is promoting. It's that sort of possibility that causes my blood to switch from Fahrenheit to Centigrade. Incidentally, it was your colleague John Eells who provided the post I seem to have to quote frequently to the nay-sayers which explained - and confirmed - that the letters USS should have nothing whatsoever at all in this world to do with z/OS UNIX System Services. He did however bemoan that trying to maintain standards such as this was akin to herding cats! Chris Mason [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix quote In the 1970s Brian Kernighan coined the project name Unics as a play on Multics, (Multiplexing Information and Computer Services). Unics could eventually support multiple simultaneous users, and it was renamed Unix. /quote [2] Likely to attract folk directly or indirectly related to commercial enterprises offering advice of dubious validity laced with FUD directed at SNA products and architecture. On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 02:29:43 -0500, Jim Mulder d10j...@us.ibm.com wrote: Perhaps some form of hybrid acronym like zUSS could serve as being both highly compact and descriptive, while avoiding potential confusion with prior art. Furthermore, it could establish a precedent for selecting acronyms for describing similar interface layers on other platforms. Some might even consider such acronyms to be apropos, especially with regard to a widely user operating system on x86. That was the last arrow in my quiver of whimsy. -Amy Farrah Fowler Jim Mulder z/OS System Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie, NY -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
USS misuse again with a liberal dose of anti-SNA bigotry (Was: HFS file questions)
Peter I'd really love to understand why on earth people like you are defending that term in the name of VTAM. If it were only VTAM, the anti-SNA bigot of which I'd really love to understand why on earth there are so many people like you might have a point. But since that term applies now not just to the SNA component of Communications Server but also to the highly trendy IP component of Communications Server in the shape of the TN3270E server, your case falls down about your ears and lies shattered on the ground. In case you are ignorant of this point as seems very likely, the benefits of the Unformatted System Services (USS) command LOGON (and a pale shadow of LOGOFF[1]) and messages including IP-specific variables are available to TN3270E clients - all very now! As I pointed out before I did a literature search on USS and it was evident that, by and large, the generally official *documentation* which I was searching in the IBM bookshelf stuck to the rules. It was only in a programming context such as the Health Checker that the misuse of USS was common. I don't know where the Health Checker came from but I have a suspicion that it was created by some bright IBMer in relatively idle time without any reference to any official guidelines - a naissance applying to very many highly successful products over the years.[2] Once presented to the powers-that- were, everyone jumped up and down in great enthusiasm and immediately had it massaged it into an offering for customers. Did somebody point out that all the uses of USS_ were illegal? It's just possible. For example, I guess if John Eells had had anything to do with it - and he might have, he might have said something and probably would have. What's just about certain is that the suit responsible would have asked whether or not there would be any benefit for the cost involved in clearing out the unapproved abbreviation - and he may have known enough not to need to wait for an answer. It's at times like this I recall CICS and its BALR 14,14! A guess that this component had to pass naming convention, quality assurance and whatever other boards within IBM. I guess your guess is very probably 180 degrees wrong! The keys are still named USS_xyz. This somehow proves to me that the abbreviation is largely accepted with IBM itself. An argument on foundations of quicksand. Does the relative absence of USS in the z/OS UNIX bookshelf mean nothing to you? For a start, there are 11 books and only 5 actually happen to show up when USS is keyed in the bookshelf Search text box. Try using some logic! Well, I just checked all the hits in all the manuals, a task taking less than a minute - that should be a salutary observation! - and the Health Checker is the chief culprit causing all the hits in the Planning manual. If my guess regarding the Health Checker is about right, you have lost your only paddle and are drifting helplessly. Since you were relying so terribly much on the evidence of the Health Checker function to support your shaky argument, I dug out a possibly helpful reference on what the Health Checker was all about: Exploiting the IBM Health Checker for z/OS Infrastructure, December 2010, REDP-4590-01 http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/redp4590.html There's a gloss in the Background section which has the objective to indicate that this was a logical development but one can read between the lines and guess that, possibly following a disaster with a customer with clout after which somebody said why the several expletives deleted didn't IBM tell us that was a stupid value to set for that parameter that ruined our business for an hour/day/week/whatever, a quickly convened panel of experts came up with plan to supply what became to be known as the Health Checker.[3] I can well believe that proverbial skids were placed under the team responsible and they were supplied with all the necessary get out of gaol free cards to bypass any checks on adherence to naming standards or whatever. Reading the Background section, one is struck by how wonderfully the legend is presented. I wonder how a contemporary account as opposed to an account benefitting from hindsight would read. I was going to say I wondered why it took three years for the function to appear from conception to first delivery but, reading more closely, early 2000s is not at all necessarily 2000 and could just as easily be 2003. It's good to have a word-smith available when you want to present a blameless account! You won't change this anymore, like nobody else will. USS has become the defacto standard name for z/OS UNIX System Services. I suggest - without any great expectation that the suggestion will be followed in your case - that, if you must misuse the term USS, you do so in a context which removes any possibility for ambiguity. This is a goal which could so much more easily be achieved by the use of the term z/OS UNIX or
Etre épéegrammatic (Was: HFS file questions)
Tuco
If we are to levitate our contributions with the yeast of jest:
In his time Jean de la Bruyère had a rather more effective remedy at his
disposal assuming he was assured of greater skill than his detractor. Of
course, he should make his stand on de la pelouse ou de l'herbe rather than de
la bruyère.
Chris Mason
On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:10:57 -0500, Bonno, Tuco t...@cio.sc.gov
wrote:
It's sad that a very few knowledgeable and otherwise professional people
here feel the need to engage in pissing contests over such insignificant
minutiae as a perceived malappropriation of an overloaded acronym at the
expense of someone who asks a legitimate question.
it is indeed a great misfortune neither to have enough wit to speak well, nor
enough judgement to remain silent
Jean de La Bruyère, (my favorite 17th century french epigrammist)
if you don't have anything worthwhile to say lieutenant, then just shut the
f*ck up
Captain-who-shall-remain-nameless, my favorite mentor, somewhere in
the Mekong Delta, 1971
/s/ tuco bonno;
Graduate, College of Conflict Management;
University of SouthEast Asia;
I partied on the Ho Chi Minh Trail - tiến lên !!
--
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USS misuse again (Was: HFS file questions)
Message-ID: 4a6f2d35.2080...@us.ibm.com. corresponds to http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0907L=ibm- mainT=0F=S=P=198809 in the archives, if, like me, you wouldn't know what to do with the message- id. Chris Mason On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:25:04 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm- m...@patriot.net wrote: In listserv%201102111610019238.0...@bama.ua.edu, on 02/11/2011 at 04:10 PM, Peter Hunkeler peter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com said: First, if you want to be correct, this is called z/OS UNIX System Services. In OS/390? Or were you under the impression that it first surfaced in z/OS? Second, USS is nowadays commonly being used as the abbreviation for the above mentioned z/OS component. Look at IBM manuals, look at APARs, look at HealthChecker, to name but a few. John Eells knows more about the legitimacy of that than you do. See, ie.e, Message-ID: 4a6f2d35.2080...@us.ibm.com. No offence intended, but I'm getting sick of this repeated, useless posts. PKB. My post was about copytree; it was neither repeated nor useless. Yours, OTOH, was both repetitious and useless. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
A better abbreviation (was HFS file questions)
Mary Ann Can we not simply realize that there are two meanings for the acronym USS and deal with it? I'm taking this post as a chance to point out that the proposal to assign zUNIX to z/OS UNIX System Services and leave the technique used by VTAM and the TN3270E server which allows a character string to be converted to a formatted request or session setup and having session setup information presented as messages happily alone and undisturbed is indeed - as you here earnestly request - dealing with the two meanings problem - simply realised! Chris Mason -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
USS misuse again (Was: HFS file questions)
Mary Ann I don't really care. Unix Systems Services is too damn long and I will continue to use USS. Considering the following post from 21 Jul 2009, I was rather shocked to read don't care: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0907L=ibm- mainT=0F=S=P=140990 quote Sorry, yes, I meant the VTAM screen. I refer to it as the USS screen, from USSTAB. MA /quote I guess people can change in 18 months. Chris Mason On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:14:02 -0600, Mary Anne Matyaz maryanne4...@gmail.com wrote: LOL. You can post all the links you want, the simple fact of the matter is, USS IS the Acronym, or more precisely, the initialism of Unix Systems Services. Your argument is actually whether it's an 'approved' acronym. Personally, I don't really care. Unix Systems Services is too damn long and I will continue to use USS. (The initialism, not the acronym). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
The IBM Terminology pages (Was: HFS file questions)
Also sent directly to RS so nobody need worry that he probably blocks my contributions to the list. Radoslaw hint: CSI has two Very_Official_IBM_Approved_Meanings According to http://www-01.ibm.com/software/globalization/terminology/c.html CSI means the following quote consolidated software inventory (CSI) A key-sequenced VSAM data set, used by SMP/E and logically divided into zones. /quote That is one not two. Chris Mason On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:17:24 +0100, R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl wrote: W dniu 2011-02-14 17:28, McKown, John pisze: I would hope that context would make it clear (as it is here since HFS in IBM-MAIN is unique and unlikely to refer the MAC OS HFS filesystem) as to whether a question is about UNIX or VTAM. Unfortunately, at times, I have seen a message similar to the following: Problem with USS. Please help!!! and that is the complete message. Of course, being the louse that I am, I simply ignore those messages. If I cannot understand the question, or even the context into which the question should be placed, I ignore it completely. And the above example, I don't know if the person is having a problem with z/OS VTAM, z/OS UNIX, z/VM VTAM or the U.S. Navy. Let's assume the following example Topic: IEBGENER errors Content: when I'm trying to use IEBGENER to copy a dataset from tape to disk I get B37 reason code. Please help how to fix IEBGENER. (all the funnies intended, no JCL code provided, in further response we will see allocation TRK,1 in SYSUT1) What can we do with such question: a) ignore b) try to help despite the topic is wrong, description is bad too. We are here TO HELP EACH OTHER AND TO LEARN FROM OTHER'S RESPONSES. c) start new war just because it's not IEBGENER problem, B37 is not a reason - it's abend code, discuss what is official definition of 'abend' the 'reason code', finally start personal attacks. d) stay cryptic, just to show other that I know the answer, but the question is wrong. ITYM, OTOH, FSVO, it's not my dog and malicious remarks are welcome. e) combination of d) and c) I prefer b), sometimes a). Last but not least: if you really don't know what meaning of acronym/initialism is meant then ...you probably simply don't know the answer. Maybe because you don't know the problem, maybe the problem is not described well enough. Example: CSI problem. I have a problem with CSI. It's full. Can I alter it to be mutlivolume? Can it be Extended Addressability? (hint: CSI has two Very_Official_IBM_Approved_Meanings). Quiz: is the above about dataset used in SMP/e or rather Catalog Search Interface? Rhetorical: would it hurt to start the anser in the folowing manner: I assume you mean SMP/E CSI dataset. You can... -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland P.S. I like mail filtering. I did it for some USS warrior many moons ago. Everytime I see his responses quoted in other's mails I see it was good decision. I lose nothing except acerbities (taken from dictionary, I hope in proper meaning). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Some sort of discussion regarding B37 (Was: HFS file questions)
The list in general I have received privately some further flak concerning this post pointing out that I wasn't contributing to the discussion. Ostensibly true but consider the following: If it would be of interest to anyone else to contribute to the this topic, it would be useful to know that the discussion was being held at all which, without the change of subject, just wasn't going to be likely to happen - was it? Chris Mason On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:42:58 -0600, Chris Mason chrisma...@belgacom.net wrote: ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A better abbreviation (Was: HFS file questions)
Ron Actually I had a private note suggesting this on the basis that Hewlett- Packard had HPUX, offering thanks that the two components of the company name are in the order they are. I didn't see you copied, so I guess it's a case of mischievous minds think alike. Chris Mason On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:01:06 -0800, Ron Hawkins ron.hawkins1...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Well, I think the whole subject zUX. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Jokes with no relevance whatsoever (Was: A better abbreviation (Was: HFS file questions))
Steve and Ron This reminds me of the opening sequence of the film Getting Straight which is of a student protest. The camera is close to the students and one placard goes past with the words Gravity is a lie filling the screen. The student turns round off camera and comes back so that the reverse side of the placard comes into view: The earth sucks. I thought you might enjoy that - apropos of nothing in particular. Chris Mason On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:25:08 -0700, Steve Comstock st...@trainersfriend.com wrote: On 2/14/2011 7:01 PM, Ron Hawkins wrote: Well, I think the whole subject zUX. ROTFL! Right. Let's keep some perspective here! -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
USS misuse again (Was: HFS file questions)
Ed I hope you don't mind the resetting of the Subject since this subdiscussion has no connection with list etiquette. Actually I'm sorry I forgot! Chris Mason On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:10:55 -0600, Chris Mason chrisma...@belgacom.net wrote: ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Perhaps some form of hybrid acronym like zUSS could serve as being both highly compact and descriptive, while avoiding potential confusion with prior art. Jim, As much as I do respect you, I can't agree with that suggestion. z/OS' Health Checker compontent has chosen to name its z/OS UNIX related keywords beginning with the letters USS. A guess that this component had to pass naming convention, quality assurance and whatever other boards within IBM. The keys are still named USS_xyz. This somehow proves to me that the abbreviation is largely accepted with IBM itself. I'd really love to understand why on earth people like you are defending that term in the name of VTAM. You won't change this anymore, like nobody else will. USS has become the defacto standard name for z/OS UNIX System Services. -- Peter Hunkeler Credit Suisse -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
In 1809672709-1297553434-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-7009219...@bda2487.bisx.prod.on.blackberry, on 02/12/2011 at 11:30 PM, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca said: arogant PKB Grow up! Physician, heal thyuself! -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Are you suggesting that I leave this list and go there? No, definitely not! Others have already guesed what I wanted to suggest you. I apologize for having been to lazy to add another sentence or two. -- Peter Hunkeler Credit Suisse -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu wrote on 02/13/2011 08:48:13 AM: I'd really love to understand why on earth people like you are defending that term in the name of VTAM. You won't change this anymore, like nobody else will. USS has become the defacto standard name for z/OS UNIX System Services. I am reminded once again of the pitfalls of attempting written humor with an international audience. My entire post was intended to be humorous, and my suggested acronym was simply to set up the implied joke in the next paragraph, with respect to what a similar acronym might be on a widely used x86 operating system. However, recognition of the intended humor does require familiarity with American slang terminology. Instead of an industry standard icon such as :-) to indicate humor, I used a quote from a fictional character on a recent episode of a popular situation comedy show on American television. That also is likely ill advised with an international audience. Suitably chastened, I will attempt to control my obsession with obscure referential humor. For a while, at least. Jim Mulder z/OS System Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie, NY -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
On 2/13/2011 3:15 PM, Jim Mulder wrote: I will attempt to control my obsession with obscure referential humor. For a while, at least. Perhaps we can shift the discussion to why IBM is misusing RAMAC? g Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, VT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Jim, I really should have caught that reference. I love Big Bang Theory. I wonder what Dr. Sheldon Cooper would say? ;-) Probably that he should decide any such weighty matters. And that mere systems programmers are below engineers. ;-) Rob On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Jim Mulder d10j...@us.ibm.com wrote: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu wrote on 02/13/2011 08:48:13 AM: I'd really love to understand why on earth people like you are defending that term in the name of VTAM. You won't change this anymore, like nobody else will. USS has become the defacto standard name for z/OS UNIX System Services. I am reminded once again of the pitfalls of attempting written humor with an international audience. My entire post was intended to be humorous, and my suggested acronym was simply to set up the implied joke in the next paragraph, with respect to what a similar acronym might be on a widely used x86 operating system. However, recognition of the intended humor does require familiarity with American slang terminology. Instead of an industry standard icon such as :-) to indicate humor, I used a quote from a fictional character on a recent episode of a popular situation comedy show on American television. That also is likely ill advised with an international audience. Suitably chastened, I will attempt to control my obsession with obscure referential humor. For a while, at least. Jim Mulder z/OS System Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie, NY -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Rob Schramm Senior Systems Engineer w: 513.305.6224 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
A friend posted he had Chia balls for supper. I replied hoping he did not come down with an intestinal blockage from the clay center. On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Rob Schramm rob.schr...@gmail.com wrote: Jim, I really should have caught that reference. I love Big Bang Theory. I wonder what Dr. Sheldon Cooper would say? ;-) Probably that he should decide any such weighty matters. And that mere systems programmers are below engineers. ;-) Rob On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Jim Mulder d10j...@us.ibm.com wrote: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu wrote on 02/13/2011 08:48:13 AM: I'd really love to understand why on earth people like you are defending that term in the name of VTAM. You won't change this anymore, like nobody else will. USS has become the defacto standard name for z/OS UNIX System Services. I am reminded once again of the pitfalls of attempting written humor with an international audience. My entire post was intended to be humorous, and my suggested acronym was simply to set up the implied joke in the next paragraph, with respect to what a similar acronym might be on a widely used x86 operating system. However, recognition of the intended humor does require familiarity with American slang terminology. Instead of an industry standard icon such as :-) to indicate humor, I used a quote from a fictional character on a recent episode of a popular situation comedy show on American television. That also is likely ill advised with an international audience. Suitably chastened, I will attempt to control my obsession with obscure referential humor. For a while, at least. Jim Mulder z/OS System Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie, NY -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Rob Schramm Senior Systems Engineer w: 513.305.6224 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
I am reminded once again of the pitfalls of attempting written humor with an international audience. How embarrassing. You got me. We use to say that a joke that has to be explained is no longer funny. However, you just proved that this does not hold true in every case. I'm still smiling about your joke, not that I got it. -- Peter Hunkeler CREDIT SUISSE AG -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Chris, I have to admit that when I first saw this post, I assumed it was a tongue-n-cheek post and promptly deleted it. After reading it again... I can only apologize to the originator of this thread for the mean-spirited and completely unhelpful nature of your response. It is well documented that you have an unbelievable pet-peeve regarding the USS acronym. I think you have made your position abundantly clear. Perhaps you feel it has been too long since your last reasoned rant regarding the USS subject. In which case, please feel free to start a thread restating your opinion. BUT... It is just not ok to hijack a post and effectively belittle a poster. I shouldn't even have to post anything about etiquette to long time members. At the very least you should apologize. Rob Schramm -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Mason Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 12:00 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Dick USS - meaning Unix System Services, not the VTAM term Unformatted Session Services :-))[1] Well, I thought I knew just about all that really mattered about VTAM but I was puzzled by Unformatted Session Services about which I could not recall previously having heard. Checking the manuals - z/OS V1R12 just to make sure they were the latest - I found - to my relief - that USS still meant Unformatted *System* Services as I remembered it and had not been transformed to Unformatted *Session* Services however plausible a sequence of words that might conceivably be in the context of VTAM and SNA. Perhaps there is a consideration that can be taken into account before sentencing in that there *are* two flavours of USS table, a *session*-level USS table and an operation-level USS table. I suppose it's easy to get confused in this complex world of VTAM and so a caution can be handed down. Incidentally, earlier in the thread Stephen Mednick quoted a manual where USS in this unofficial context was introduced as UNIX System Services (USS) so I guess, because it is part of the same thread, her thread, of course, that Linda Mooney has an albeit tenuous excuse for the misappropriation! Chris Mason [1] I caught this travesty only because I have a digest from Google Groups every day as a way of making sure I don't miss the one in 10 or 20 or so threads within which I may have something to say. The reference to USS just happened to appear in the sample text offered with this digest system. Otherwise I would have passed all of this by in blissful ignorance of the malapropism. The Google Groups digest can also pick up threads from poor deluded individuals who imagine that they have posted a query or provided an answer only to be totally ignored because the post appears neither in subscribers' inboxes nor the archives. On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:44:47 +, Bond, Dick (DIS) di...@dis.wa.gov wrote: Hi Linda, USS - meaning Unix System Services, not the VTAM term Unformatted Session Services :-)) ... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Mooney Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Hi Dick, Nobody here, me included, has ever used copytree. None of us know much about USS at all, although I am determined to learn - if it kills me! ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Rob, I have to agree. The tone of this board is extremely defensive. Perhaps it's that sarcasm and humor don't translate well in the written word. If you want to see a friendly board where new members are welcomed and encouraged, go see IBMVM. Since VM has had a resurgance, those members patiently and comprehensively answer members questions, even the most basic newbie questions. Pity we can't do the same. Chris, IMHO, the use of USS is not a malapropism. According to wikipedia, a malapropism is an inappropriate use of the word, usually causing humor. I don't think anyone is getting any humor out of this thread, and the use of USS is not inappropriate within the context. Further, this is not an acronym adventuror board. Nor should anyone really care if you spell a word wrong or use an acronym differently than someone else might expect, unless it affects the technical information. Can we not simply realize that there are two meanings for the acronym USS and deal with it? We're humans after all, we can discover context and determine the author's intent. We're not Watson playing Jeapordy, after all. My advice to all is, if you feel yourself launching in to a diatribe, please just delete your email, go hug your kids, take a walk, or stare at your screen saver for a while. You'll live longer. Have a nice weekend everyone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
And stupid me thought USS meant: United States Ship. Like HMS means Her/His Majesty's Ship. Except where it means Home Marketing Services. The old time VTAMers want USS to mean the VTAM use and it alone. That is sacrosanct to them for some reason. Where it's not confusing, USS can mean UNIX System Services to me. But I've gotten used to typing z/OS UNIX just to be as clear as possible. And given my arthritis, spelling is optional to me any more. The purpose of writing is to communicate. Granted clear communication is best done by proper use of words, grammar, and spelling. But this is not a professional writer's forum. On Sat, 2011-02-12 at 06:11 -0600, Mary Anne Matyaz wrote: Rob, I have to agree. The tone of this board is extremely defensive. Perhaps it's that sarcasm and humor don't translate well in the written word. If you want to see a friendly board where new members are welcomed and encouraged, go see IBMVM. Since VM has had a resurgance, those members patiently and comprehensively answer members questions, even the most basic newbie questions. Pity we can't do the same. Chris, IMHO, the use of USS is not a malapropism. According to wikipedia, a malapropism is an inappropriate use of the word, usually causing humor. I don't think anyone is getting any humor out of this thread, and the use of USS is not inappropriate within the context. Further, this is not an acronym adventuror board. Nor should anyone really care if you spell a word wrong or use an acronym differently than someone else might expect, unless it affects the technical information. Can we not simply realize that there are two meanings for the acronym USS and deal with it? We're humans after all, we can discover context and determine the author's intent. We're not Watson playing Jeapordy, after all. My advice to all is, if you feel yourself launching in to a diatribe, please just delete your email, go hug your kids, take a walk, or stare at your screen saver for a while. You'll live longer. Have a nice weekend everyone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- John McKown Maranatha! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Peter ... but I'm getting sick of this repeated, useless posts. In checking to find this important reference I see this is not the first time you have tried to deny this seemingly for some inconvenient truth. Perhaps on the very few occasions the matter arises, you should just resist the temptation to reply and go into a dark room in order to compose yourself. - The reference I rediscovered was the following: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0907L=ibm- mainT=0F=S=P=198809 and, in order to spare you and any others who are in a similar state of denial, here is the content of the referenced post: quote I still think that IBM should have chosen another acronym for Unix than USS. I believe VTAM USS table is still valid, and still used, so it is confusing to me that IBM should use the same acronym for something that is still in use. We did not chose USS as an acronym for z/OS UNIX System Services. It's not on the list of names people are supposed to use, and nobody in IBM should use this abbreviation to mean z/OS UNIX System Services. (Anyone from IBM who thinks differently should contact me so I can tell them why they're wrong.) In reality, herding cats is easier than making absolutely sure that everyone uses the correct full and short names all the time in all contexts, formal and informal, but we keep trying. /quote I also rediscovered another reference from the last time this topic flared up which confirms absolutely what is official: http://www-01.ibm.com/software/globalization/terminology/u.html Thanks are due to Ed Finnell. - First, if you want to be correct, ... Secondly, if you want to be correct, it's these repeated, useless posts. - Second, USS is nowadays commonly being used as the abbreviation for the above mentioned z/OS component. Yes - and incorrectly. Look at IBM manuals, look at APARs, look at HealthChecker, to name but a few. There are IBM manuals and IBM manuals. As I did in order to confirm I wasn't dreaming some time ago when the deniers were rampant - they know who they are! - I checked and analysed the UNIX System Services bookshelf for the letters USS. Yes there were a few but, if USS is official, I should have had a deluge of hits, shouldn't I? There were a few examples of some of John Eells's cats which had strayed. If you perform the same search on all manuals in the z/OS V1R12 bookshelf, what is most striking is the weight of Communications Server manual hits and the relative paucity of others. If you take the trouble to check others you find that very often the excuse is that USS appears where the programmer - since it often applies to program output - is constrained for space or the author is in the middle of a table and wants to save space. Rather rarely one finds UNIX System Services (USS) in manuals for products which need to refer to UNIX System Services and have become infected with the rash for which I am attempting to apply a salve! It's interesting that quite a number of hits are caused by having to refer to the HealthChecker function which, in a sense, would appear to have become a Trojan horse. - We should really help those willing to learn about USS instead of unprofessionally teaching them that USS has got more than one meaning. Unfortunately you refer to a post which responds directly to what Linda Mooney had posted and deals with her substantive problem so this comment cannot validly apply to that post. One of the other responses to Linda Mooney's post which refer to her use of USS also go on to deal with her substantive problem so, again, this comment cannot validly apply to that post. The only other response involving USS was mine and the purpose there was to highlight an incorrect word in the supposed expansion of USS in its original VTAM/SNA context. I addressed the inappropriateness of commenting on Linda Mooney's use of USS since she had the excuse that the significance of USS in this thread had already been explained earlier in the thread - so this comment cannot validly apply to my post either. I leave you and all readers to draw an appropriate conclusion - and yet again I have had to deal at length with a careless posting! No offence intended, ... You will find that you avoid offense better by reading and thinking a bit more before addressing the keyboard. - If you're really serious about understanding this topic, you can take the time to go back to July 2009 and read through the thread, USS misuse, in the archives which starts with the following post: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0907L=ibm- mainT=0F=S=P=197609 Although appearing to come out of the blue, this initial post was actually continuing an earlier discussion where the use of USS in its official sense had been misinterpreted because the incorrect sense was assumed and which sense applied was not fully evident from the context - although it is quite likely that the incorrect use was assumed
Re: HFS file questions
Linda I hope you get a large and healthy dose of your own medicine - and soon. Since you attach this comment to my post, I guess I am supposed to be taking some sort of medicine or other but I cannot quite work out what it should be! Nor am I in the possession of any - relevant - medicine of which I am aware! I suspect you have not at all understood what I have been saying so you'd better read though my comments to Dick Bond - again? - and try this time to understand what you are reading. ... within the environment that IBM itself often calls USS. Please minimally check these references which I used in my response to Peter Hunkeler for a proper understanding: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0907L=ibm- mainT=0F=S=P=198809 http://www-01.ibm.com/software/globalization/terminology/u.html Yes, you are right, there are many in IBM that should do the same. Misuse within IBM is no excuse. Once you have checked these references, you will be aware that my oblique reference to your use of USS was correct and just about as uncritical as it could be. Chris Mason On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:58:34 +, Linda Mooney linda.lst...@comcast.net wrote: For those of you have have been sincerely helpful, please know how very much I appreciate you. For those of you who have had your sport at the depth of my ignorance on the subject of HFS files and how to properly manage them within the environment that IBM itself often calls USS, I hope you get a large and healthy dose of your own medicine - and soon.  Linda - Original Message - From: Chris Mason chrisma...@belgacom.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 8:59:39 AM Subject: Re: HFS file questions Dick USS - meaning Unix System Services, not the VTAM term Unformatted Session Services  :-))[1] Well, I thought I knew just about all that really mattered about VTAM but I was puzzled by Unformatted Session Services about which I could not recall previously having heard. Checking the manuals - z/OS V1R12 just to make sure they were the latest - I found - to my relief - that USS still meant Unformatted *System* Services as I remembered it and had not been transformed to Unformatted *Session* Services however plausible a sequence of words that might conceivably be in the context of VTAM and SNA. Perhaps there is a consideration that can be taken into account before sentencing in that there *are* two flavours of USS table, a *session*-level USS table and an operation-level USS table. I suppose it's easy to get confused in this complex world of VTAM and so a caution can be handed down. Incidentally, earlier in the thread Stephen Mednick quoted a manual where USS in this unofficial context was introduced as UNIX System Services (USS) so I guess, because it is part of the same thread, her thread, of course, that Linda Mooney has an albeit tenuous excuse for the misappropriation! Chris Mason [1] I caught this travesty only because I have a digest from Google Groups every day as a way of making sure I don't miss the one in 10 or 20 or so threads within which I may have something to say. The reference to USS just happened to appear in the sample text offered with this digest system. Otherwise I would have passed all of this by in blissful ignorance of the malapropism. The Google Groups digest can also pick up threads from poor deluded individuals who imagine that they have posted a query or provided an answer only to be totally ignored because the post appears neither in subscribers' inboxes nor the archives. On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:44:47 +, Bond, Dick (DIS) di...@dis.wa.gov wrote: Hi Linda, USS - meaning Unix System Services, not the VTAM term Unformatted Session Services  :-)) ... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Mooney Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Hi Dick, Nobody here, me included, has ever used copytree.àNone of us know much about USS at all, although I am determined to learn - if it kills me! ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Ted Rather than bitching about terminology, help! There are two posts supporting the proper use of USS. The one for which I am responsible was as a result of rather accidentally spotting a reference to the correct use but a slightly mistaken one and so it was worth a word or two of correction. The other one contained the correction alongside a brief comment or two on the substance of the query which is surely to be considered as help. Neither could be considered to be bitching in any normal person's use of the word. Complaing about how somebody phrases something, rather than the problem they ask about is both arrogant and belittling. What tosh! I reserve the right to point out when a word such as, for example, bitching is used inappropriately and not to do so is not an option! See redbooks. Redbooks have the just about the same validity as justification as posts in IBM-MAIN since they are quite likely to be written by the same people. Please refresh your memory of this topic in the thread to which I refer in my response to Peter Hunkeler. Chris Mason On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:07:26 +, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote: I hope you get a large and healthy dose of your own medicine - and soon. You go girl (no sexism intended) -- it would be you go guy in the right circumstances) Too many pedants! USS has been hijacked. See redbooks. Rather than bitching about terminology, help! Or, don't respond. Complaing about how somebody phrases something, rather than the problem they ask about is both arrogant and belittling. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
your opinion. You have already obliged that! Nor did I anticipate that the bigots would come out of the woodwork in such numbers. Otherwise I guess a spin-off thread would have been appropriate. Unfortunately it's a bit late now. Also don't you sometimes - as I do - look into a thread that is, by the Subject, ostensibly boring but which has somehow persisted as far as 20 or 30 posts? Usually this long life means that a stimulating tangent has been found. However no one has thought to revise the Subject. BUT... It is just not ok to hijack a post and effectively belittle a poster. I'm afraid you've lost me again. Perhaps a few deep breaths are necessary. Regarding hijacking threads, my previous comment applies. I shouldn't even have to post anything about etiquette to long time members. I can't argue with that. Chris Mason On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 03:13:49 -0500, Rob Schramm rob.schr...@gmail.com wrote: Chris, I have to admit that when I first saw this post, I assumed it was a tongue-n-cheek post and promptly deleted it. After reading it again... I can only apologize to the originator of this thread for the mean-spirited and completely unhelpful nature of your response. It is well documented that you have an unbelievable pet-peeve regarding the USS acronym. I think you have made your position abundantly clear. Perhaps you feel it has been too long since your last reasoned rant regarding the USS subject. In which case, please feel free to start a thread restating your opinion. BUT... It is just not ok to hijack a post and effectively belittle a poster. I shouldn't even have to post anything about etiquette to long time members. At the very least you should apologize. Rob Schramm -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Mason Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 12:00 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Dick USS - meaning Unix System Services, not the VTAM term Unformatted Session Services :-))[1] Well, I thought I knew just about all that really mattered about VTAM but I was puzzled by Unformatted Session Services about which I could not recall previously having heard. Checking the manuals - z/OS V1R12 just to make sure they were the latest - I found - to my relief - that USS still meant Unformatted *System* Services as I remembered it and had not been transformed to Unformatted *Session* Services however plausible a sequence of words that might conceivably be in the context of VTAM and SNA. Perhaps there is a consideration that can be taken into account before sentencing in that there *are* two flavours of USS table, a *session*-level USS table and an operation-level USS table. I suppose it's easy to get confused in this complex world of VTAM and so a caution can be handed down. Incidentally, earlier in the thread Stephen Mednick quoted a manual where USS in this unofficial context was introduced as UNIX System Services (USS) so I guess, because it is part of the same thread, her thread, of course, that Linda Mooney has an albeit tenuous excuse for the misappropriation! Chris Mason [1] I caught this travesty only because I have a digest from Google Groups every day as a way of making sure I don't miss the one in 10 or 20 or so threads within which I may have something to say. The reference to USS just happened to appear in the sample text offered with this digest system. Otherwise I would have passed all of this by in blissful ignorance of the malapropism. The Google Groups digest can also pick up threads from poor deluded individuals who imagine that they have posted a query or provided an answer only to be totally ignored because the post appears neither in subscribers' inboxes nor the archives. On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:44:47 +, Bond, Dick (DIS) di...@dis.wa.gov wrote: Hi Linda, USS - meaning Unix System Services, not the VTAM term Unformatted Session Services :-)) ... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Mooney Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Hi Dick, Nobody here, me included, has ever used copytree. None of us know much about USS at all, although I am determined to learn - if it kills me! ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Mary Anne The tone of this board is extremely defensive. I'm not sure why you use the word defensive. In this case I feel I need to be on the defensive because of all the offense but I don't think that's what you have in mind. Perhaps it's that sarcasm and humor don't translate well in the written word. I prefer humour, of course! Rob Schramm's instinct was right. My post was supposed to be very light sarcasm laced with as much humour as I could muster directed at Dick Bond and only the slightest criticism - a sort- of tut, tut - indirected at Linda Mooney. If you want to see a friendly board where new members are welcomed and encouraged, go see IBMVM. Since VM has had a resurgence, those members patiently and comprehensively answer members questions, even the most basic newbie questions. Pity we can't do the same. Amazingly when I first got involved with IBM-MAIN a few years ago now, I found myself contributing to so many of the posts that I appeared in the top 10 of the poster count in the first or second month. (Was that some Google Groups thing that's disappeared now?) It was a bit of a freak since I can help generally only with Communications Server stuff. Then as now and all the time in between, I never found providing answers wanting. Because I keep a look out for questions on a certain topic, I subscribe to another list not too distant from IBM-MAIN (mainly z/OS even if there are some who protest otherwise!) and IBMVM. I find that list ridiculously too matey and sometimes I am criticised for actually explaining how a problem was solved/is to be solved rather than simply providing an answer - luddite to a fault! ... the use of USS is not a malapropism. Try reading the post again. The malapropism was substituting session for system. I Googled define: malapropism and came up with the unintentional misuse of a word by confusion with one that sounds similar which seems to fit the bill pretty well, wouldn't you say? That taking mal and twisting apropism to something appropriate sort of gets us to misuse so that was a bonus - but you have to allow a bit of poetic licence! ... and the use of USS is not inappropriate within the context. Perhaps you should read my original post rather than what you might assume from what Rob Schramm thought he read through the red mist. In the sense that USS is understood in the context, it is appropriate. In the sense that it is assumed to be correct - as has been subsequently indicated - it is inappropriate. Further, this is not an acronym adventuror board. I guess Dick Bond could be paying attention to this but he really needn't bother since the little furry thing has been Stakhanovite in his - or her - endeavours. Nor should anyone really care if you spell a word wrong or use an acronym differently than someone else might expect, unless it affects the technical information. Ah, maybe you remember! Can we not simply realize that there are two meanings for the acronym USS and deal with it? If Dick Bond had got his little explanation 100% right, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I wasn't jumping in in order to be reviving the old USS aunt sally. We're humans after all, we can discover context and determine the author's intent. I'm not sure you do remember. Check the references I gave to Peter Hunkeler. My advice to all is, if you feel yourself launching in to a diatribe, please just delete your email, go hug your kids, take a walk, or stare at your screen saver for a while.[1] You'll live longer. I'll remember to give my grandson a hug for you when I see him next - if I can catch him and if he doesn't really deserve a spank! Incidentally I had already drafted my suggestion to Peter to find a dark room by the time I got to your post so it's not plagiarism! Chris Mason [1] There are screen savers and screen savers. A typical flavour of screen saver is a series of changing pictures. I have the same basic function as a wall-paper changer program which I recommend as a much superior alternative: http://www.kanasolution.com/products/kana-wallchanger/ On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 06:11:27 -0600, Mary Anne Matyaz maryanne4...@gmail.com wrote: Rob, I have to agree. The tone of this board is extremely defensive. Perhaps it's that sarcasm and humor don't translate well in the written word. If you want to see a friendly board where new members are welcomed and encouraged, go see IBMVM. Since VM has had a resurgance, those members patiently and comprehensively answer members questions, even the most basic newbie questions. Pity we can't do the same. Chris, IMHO, the use of USS is not a malapropism. According to wikipedia, a malapropism is an inappropriate use of the word, usually causing humor. I don't think anyone is getting any humor out of this thread, and the use of USS is not inappropriate within the context. Further, this is not an acronym adventuror board. Nor should anyone really care if you spell a
Re: HFS file questions
John Where it's not confusing, USS can mean UNIX System Services to me. And anybody else as long as there's no evidence that they are assuming it is correct usage. It's when it is assumed that it is correct usage that noses can come into contact with paving stones. All of which provides the reason for The old time VTAMers want USS to mean the VTAM use and it alone. That is sacrosanct to them for some reason. I've mentioned it before but it's worth restating that it's not so much old time VTAMers but new time Communications Serverers who are very much aware that TN3270 users - really a rather common breed these days, courtesy of the TELNET server provided by z/OS Communications Server, get to be able to use Unformatted System Services commands and messages and have with their long heritage dealing with the function really rather got used to calling an instrument for turning earth an instrument for turning earth, namely USS! And this USS is alive a kicking and sometimes a poor IBM-MAINer (or IBMTCP- Ler) has the odd problem which he - or she - is entitled to flag up for the attention of other subscribers as I can't get my USS command to work or Why does my USS message not show my IP address - or whatever - in the Subject line. And if I was unkind I might expect that all those who had forgotten - or never knew - that USS was a reference to Unformatted System Services originally for SNA human end-user terminals and these days nearly always 3270 emulators to risk burst blood vessels over opening up a post eager to discover some interesting query regarding z/OS UNIX System Services and finding they were all at sea, perhaps on an United States Ship! But I've gotten used to typing z/OS UNIX just to be as clear as possible. For which you are heartily to be congratulated, this being the official abbreviation AFAIK. Chris Mason On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 06:29:57 -0600, John McKown joa...@swbell.net wrote: And stupid me thought USS meant: United States Ship. Like HMS means Her/His Majesty's Ship. Except where it means Home Marketing Services. The old time VTAMers want USS to mean the VTAM use and it alone. That is sacrosanct to them for some reason. Where it's not confusing, USS can mean UNIX System Services to me. But I've gotten used to typing z/OS UNIX just to be as clear as possible. And given my arthritis, spelling is optional to me any more. The purpose of writing is to communicate. Granted clear communication is best done by proper use of words, grammar, and spelling. But this is not a professional writer's forum. On Sat, 2011-02-12 at 06:11 -0600, Mary Anne Matyaz wrote: Rob, I have to agree. The tone of this board is extremely defensive. Perhaps it's that sarcasm and humor don't translate well in the written word. If you want to see a friendly board where new members are welcomed and encouraged, go see IBMVM. Since VM has had a resurgance, those members patiently and comprehensively answer members questions, even the most basic newbie questions. Pity we can't do the same. Chris, IMHO, the use of USS is not a malapropism. According to wikipedia, a malapropism is an inappropriate use of the word, usually causing humor. I don't think anyone is getting any humor out of this thread, and the use of USS is not inappropriate within the context. Further, this is not an acronym adventuror board. Nor should anyone really care if you spell a word wrong or use an acronym differently than someone else might expect, unless it affects the technical information. Can we not simply realize that there are two meanings for the acronym USS and deal with it? We're humans after all, we can discover context and determine the author's intent. We're not Watson playing Jeapordy, after all. My advice to all is, if you feel yourself launching in to a diatribe, please just delete your email, go hug your kids, take a walk, or stare at your screen saver for a while. You'll live longer. Have a nice weekend everyone. -- John McKown Maranatha! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Linda, are you aware of the MVS-OE list? It is dedicated to z/OS UNIX. -- Peter Hunkeler Credit Suisse -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Hi Peter, No, I was not aware of that list, just this one and the Marist VM list - through Share and zNextGen. Are you suggesting that I leave this list and go there? Linda - Original Message - From: Peter Hunkeler peter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 11:28:03 AM Subject: Re: HFS file questions Linda, are you aware of the MVS-OE list? It is dedicated to z/OS UNIX. -- Peter Hunkeler Credit Suisse -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
MVS-OE is a better place for z/OS UNIX (formerly OS390 OpenEdition) (often shortened USS) questions. IBM-MAIN is better for other aspects on z/OS (formerly OS390 (formerly MVS)) I use both plus RACF-L and others. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Mooney Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 1:31 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Hi Peter, No, I was not aware of that list, just this one and the Marist VM list - through Share and zNextGen. Are you suggesting that I leave this list and go there? Linda - Original Message - From: Peter Hunkeler peter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 11:28:03 AM Subject: Re: HFS file questions Linda, are you aware of the MVS-OE list? It is dedicated to z/OS UNIX. -- Peter Hunkeler Credit Suisse -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
On 2/12/2011 2:30 PM, Linda Mooney wrote: Hi Peter, No, I was not aware of that list, just this one and the Marist VM list - through Share and zNextGen. Are you suggesting that I leave this list and go there? I'm sure he's suggesting you _add_ that list to your list of lists! You'll find many of us ibm-main'ers there, also, but the focus is strictly on what is now called z/OS UNIX. mvs...@vm.marist.edu Linda - Original Message - From: Peter Hunkelerpeter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 11:28:03 AM Subject: Re: HFS file questions Linda, are you aware of the MVS-OE list? It is dedicated to z/OS UNIX. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
I can safely say that I haven't seen any such nonsense on the USS list. On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Steve Comstock st...@trainersfriend.comwrote: On 2/12/2011 2:30 PM, Linda Mooney wrote: Hi Peter, No, I was not aware of that list, just this one and the Marist VM list - through Share and zNextGen. Are you suggesting that I leave this list and go there? I'm sure he's suggesting you _add_ that list to your list of lists! You'll find many of us ibm-main'ers there, also, but the focus is strictly on what is now called z/OS UNIX. mvs...@vm.marist.edu Linda - Original Message - From: Peter Hunkelerpeter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 11:28:03 AM Subject: Re: HFS file questions Linda, are you aware of the MVS-OE list? It is dedicated to z/OS UNIX. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Rob Schramm Senior Systems Engineer w: 513.305.6224 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
What tosh! I reserve the right to point out when a word such as, for example, bitching is used inappropriately and not to do so is not an option! You are so arogant that I'm not going to bother responding to you ever again. You carp over such an insignificant trifle and insult people just because they use USS in a different context than your oh so perfect world. USS has been 'hijacked' and in the context of HFS we know which it means. Grow up! - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Linda, I think what he's saying is that MVS-OE is more specialized for z/OS UNIX than this list. Therefore you are more likely to get a targeted response without wading through a lot of other non-UNIX posts. I monitor this list and MVS-OE and IBMTCP-L (for TCPIP stuff). I could ask questions on this list instead of the latter two, but the latter two are more specialized and so not as noisy as this list. And less likely to go off-track. On Sat, 2011-02-12 at 21:30 +, Linda Mooney wrote: Hi Peter, No, I was not aware of that list, just this one and the Marist VM list - through Share and zNextGen. Are you suggesting that I leave this list and go there? Linda -- John McKown Maranatha! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Ted You are so arogant that I'm not going to bother responding to you ever again. It looks like you've already responded once too often! You carp over such an insignificant trifle and insult people just because they use USS in a different context than your oh so perfect world. There's none so ignorant as those who will not read. You carp ... Any carping on my part was in direct response to unwarranted carping. I refuse to be carped at, it's that simple! ... over such an insignificant trifle ... I agree and my initial post in this thread was indeed simply treating the matter as an insignificant trifle. It's the inventive responses which have inflated a triviality out of all proportion. ... insult people ... No evidence has been presented to support this accusation. It has somehow just been assumed. I wonder why. ... just because they use USS in a different context ... ... than is strictly correct - as - just to keep it simple for those who appear to prefer simplicity - is stated in this IBM web page which at least one responder seems to have had difficulty browsing: http://www-01.ibm.com/software/globalization/terminology/u.html quote unformatted system service (USS) A communications function that translates a character-coded command, such as a LOGON or LOGOFF command, into a field-formatted command for processing by formatted system services. See also formatted system service. ... USS See unformatted system service. /quote Actually even this august source is ever so slightly wrong since it really ought to be services - in the plural. Well, we are all supposed to strive for perfection, aren't we? And, if you are still resisting having your illusions shattered, you can take another look at this imprimatur which I posted in another response earlier - but bigotry has such a narrow throat: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0907L=ibm- mainT=0F=S=P=198809 USS has been 'hijacked' ... Obviously a matter of opinion over which it is possible to differ and offer debate. Democracy doesn't apply but accuracy does. But, of course, if you abandon the debate, you abandon the field. ... and in the context of HFS we know which it means. I agree. As I explained in the post to John McKown, it's other contexts where misuse is potentially hazardous - and in one case I happened to spot eighteen months or so ago actually so. Grow up! On the contrary, you should descend from your elevated steed before you do yourself an injury! - Incidentally, I hope the principle perpetrator of such nonsense appreciates my having taken heed of his suggestion to initiate the change of Subject which he felt was required. Chris Mason P.S. I hope you won't consider this too arrogant of me to point out that there are two rs. After all, as I said, we should strive for perfection and my accuracy with the keyboard is so poor that I do rather rely on the Spelling icon. . On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:30:50 +, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote: What tosh! I reserve the right to point out when a word such as, for example, bitching is used inappropriately and not to do so is not an option! You are so arogant that I'm not going to bother responding to you ever again. You carp over such an insignificant trifle and insult people just because they use USS in a different context than your oh so perfect world. USS has been 'hijacked' and in the context of HFS we know which it means. Grow up! - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Chris, I would only recommend to the others on the list that non-engagement is probably the only successful strategy. And to leave you to your opinion of USS. I would additionally ask that when you experience any outrage about USS uses, that you would channel the outrage into a new post. I do appreciate you finally starting your own thread. I have gone out to read some of your posts regarding a variety of subjects. While being a bit brittle at times, your posts did seem to indicate that you do possess a good handle on Communication Server issues. I can only say that you have not dissuaded me one bit from my current use of USS. I have the following take aways: 1) Information regarding a dirty look from a person deeply ensconced in VTAM-speak when I use USS for Unix System Services. 2) You have inspired me to act rather than just disagree with you ad nauseum and to take a page from Dilbert. I encourage everyone that considers USS to be Unix System Services to write te...@ca.ibm.com requesting the modification of the USS acronym definition. I have sent my first e-mail requesting the change, and I plan to encourage all System Programmers that USS should be changed in the official IBM Terminology page. Cheers, Rob Schramm -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Chris: I m not one that agrees with Ted. When it comes to USS I sort of agree with him BUT I am afraid IBM can do whatever it wants to with acronyms. I can't stand it either and you always have to setp back and think context when it comes to USS. The IBM people especially when it comes to FTP and other open system services came on board and violated practically every IBM standard. The standards we had argued for years about the OS people just said we aren't going to follow no stinkin standards here are ours and if you don't like it tough .The other people, LE are much the same way. Hell if I thought I could get away with it I would not allow LE on my system. I would much rather have some other vendors code other than LE if I had my choice. I would also look at other vendors for FTP. Anything to stay away from the damn open systems people. Heck IBM has got the people on the OE list wanting to stay with command line over either GUI or ISPF. Just wait 10 years and those same people will be so damn tired of commandline that they will be begging IBM for something else. I suspect when IBM releases a GUI on the mainframe it will be fun watching everyone back track. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Perhaps some form of hybrid acronym like zUSS could serve as being both highly compact and descriptive, while avoiding potential confusion with prior art. Furthermore, it could establish a precedent for selecting acronyms for describing similar interface layers on other platforms. Some might even consider such acronyms to be apropos, especially with regard to a widely user operating system on x86. That was the last arrow in my quiver of whimsy. -Amy Farrah Fowler Jim Mulder z/OS System Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie, NY -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
To give an HFS (not a ZFS) more space, use the confighfs shell command. There is no need to unmount-copy-remount. confighfs -x 15M /path/to/mount/point/of/hfs The above command adds another 15MiB to the HFS despite the fact that no secondary was initially allocated. If the HFS dataset was allocated with candidate volumes, you can even add space on another volume, should the primary volume not have enough free space: confighfs -xn 15M /path/to/mount/point/of/hfs -- Peter Hunkeler CREDIT SUISSE AG -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Dick USS - meaning Unix System Services, not the VTAM term Unformatted Session Services :-))[1] Well, I thought I knew just about all that really mattered about VTAM but I was puzzled by Unformatted Session Services about which I could not recall previously having heard. Checking the manuals - z/OS V1R12 just to make sure they were the latest - I found - to my relief - that USS still meant Unformatted *System* Services as I remembered it and had not been transformed to Unformatted *Session* Services however plausible a sequence of words that might conceivably be in the context of VTAM and SNA. Perhaps there is a consideration that can be taken into account before sentencing in that there *are* two flavours of USS table, a *session*-level USS table and an operation-level USS table. I suppose it's easy to get confused in this complex world of VTAM and so a caution can be handed down. Incidentally, earlier in the thread Stephen Mednick quoted a manual where USS in this unofficial context was introduced as UNIX System Services (USS) so I guess, because it is part of the same thread, her thread, of course, that Linda Mooney has an albeit tenuous excuse for the misappropriation! Chris Mason [1] I caught this travesty only because I have a digest from Google Groups every day as a way of making sure I don't miss the one in 10 or 20 or so threads within which I may have something to say. The reference to USS just happened to appear in the sample text offered with this digest system. Otherwise I would have passed all of this by in blissful ignorance of the malapropism. The Google Groups digest can also pick up threads from poor deluded individuals who imagine that they have posted a query or provided an answer only to be totally ignored because the post appears neither in subscribers' inboxes nor the archives. On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:44:47 +, Bond, Dick (DIS) di...@dis.wa.gov wrote: Hi Linda, USS - meaning Unix System Services, not the VTAM term Unformatted Session Services :-)) ... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Mooney Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Hi Dick, Nobody here, me included, has ever used copytree. None of us know much about USS at all, although I am determined to learn - if it kills me! ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
In 329551574.601355.1297294811337.javamail.r...@sz0042a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net, on 02/09/2011 at 11:40 PM, Linda Mooney linda.lst...@comcast.net said: Nobody here, me included, has ever used copytree. It's been around for a long time and works fine. None of us know much about USS at all, although I am determined to learn - if it kills me! Learn Unix System Service; USS is for VTAM gurus. I need to end up with the same structure and directory names that I have now, just with more space available. Can copytree do that? Yes. How would I mount the new and old HFS files for the copytree process? Use two empty directories and mount one file system on each. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Linda: a qualified Yes. There also must not be an ENQERR=NO. With ENQERR=BYPASS (the default, by the way), the file will be BYPASSed ie. not copied, if it cannot be ENQd or quiesced without error. The =NO will remove the RC0/abend from the step. ps. HFS=QUIESCE implies DSNENQ=USE. (There's also a note that HFS must be dismounted before a MOVE ie. Quiesce does not apply.) Without this option, you will always get an enqueue error for mounted HFS/zFS datasets. pps. I've *always* gotten quick responses from Innovation to my e-messages - trivial or not - even if it's only to say, gotta investigate or will look at it tomorrow. I've found their communication practices to be excellent. -- signature = 6 lines follows -- Neil Duffee, Joe SysProg, U d'Ottawa, Ottawa, Ont, Canada telephone:1 613 562 5800 x4585 fax:1 613 562 5161 mailto:NDuffee of uOttawa.ca http:/ /aix1.uottawa.ca/ ~nduffee How *do* you plan for something like that? Guardian Bob, Reboot For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. Systems Programming: Guilty, until proven innocent John Norgauer 2004 -Original Message- From: Linda Mooney [mailto:linda...@com...net] Sent: February 9, 2011 18:12 Subject: Re: HFS file questions [snip] So just for verification, if I code HFS=QUIESCE and ENQERR=BYPASS, I can run without unmounting the files and either get a good backup or an abend if some other process has the file for update. Yes?? [snip] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Learn Unix System Service; USS is for VTAM gurus. First, if you want to be correct, this is called z/OS UNIX System Services. Second, USS is nowadays commonly being used as the abbreviation for the above mentioned z/OS component. Look at IBM manuals, look at APARs, look at HealthChecker, to name but a few. We should really help those willing to learn about USS instead of unprofessionally teaching them that USS has got more than one meaning. No offence intended, but I'm getting sick of this repeated, useless posts. -- Peter Hunkeler Credit Suisse -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
For those of you have have been sincerely helpful, please know how very much I appreciate you. For those of you who have had your sport at the depth of my ignorance on the subject of HFS files and how to properly manage them within the environment that IBM itself often calls USS, I hope you get a large and healthy dose of your own medicine - and soon. Linda - Original Message - From: Chris Mason chrisma...@belgacom.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 8:59:39 AM Subject: Re: HFS file questions Dick USS - meaning Unix System Services, not the VTAM term Unformatted Session Services :-))[1] Well, I thought I knew just about all that really mattered about VTAM but I was puzzled by Unformatted Session Services about which I could not recall previously having heard. Checking the manuals - z/OS V1R12 just to make sure they were the latest - I found - to my relief - that USS still meant Unformatted *System* Services as I remembered it and had not been transformed to Unformatted *Session* Services however plausible a sequence of words that might conceivably be in the context of VTAM and SNA. Perhaps there is a consideration that can be taken into account before sentencing in that there *are* two flavours of USS table, a *session*-level USS table and an operation-level USS table. I suppose it's easy to get confused in this complex world of VTAM and so a caution can be handed down. Incidentally, earlier in the thread Stephen Mednick quoted a manual where USS in this unofficial context was introduced as UNIX System Services (USS) so I guess, because it is part of the same thread, her thread, of course, that Linda Mooney has an albeit tenuous excuse for the misappropriation! Chris Mason [1] I caught this travesty only because I have a digest from Google Groups every day as a way of making sure I don't miss the one in 10 or 20 or so threads within which I may have something to say. The reference to USS just happened to appear in the sample text offered with this digest system. Otherwise I would have passed all of this by in blissful ignorance of the malapropism. The Google Groups digest can also pick up threads from poor deluded individuals who imagine that they have posted a query or provided an answer only to be totally ignored because the post appears neither in subscribers' inboxes nor the archives. On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:44:47 +, Bond, Dick (DIS) di...@dis.wa.gov wrote: Hi Linda, USS - meaning Unix System Services, not the VTAM term Unformatted Session Services :-)) ... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Mooney Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Hi Dick, Nobody here, me included, has ever used copytree. None of us know much about USS at all, although I am determined to learn - if it kills me! ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
I hope you get a large and healthy dose of your own medicine - and soon. You go girl (no sexism intended) -- it would be you go guy in the right circumstances) Too many pedants! USS has been hijacked. See redbooks. Rather than bitching about terminology, help! Or, don't respond. Complaing about how somebody phrases something, rather than the problem they ask about is both arrogant and belittling. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
snip-- You go girl (no sexism intended) -- it would be you go guy in the right circumstances) snip- None taken - and thank you. Linda - Original Message - From: Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 3:07:26 PM Subject: Re: HFS file questions I hope you get a large and healthy dose of your own medicine - and soon. You go girl (no sexism intended) -- it would be you go guy in the right circumstances) Too many pedants! USS has been hijacked. See redbooks. Rather than bitching about terminology, help! Or, don't respond. Complaing about how somebody phrases something, rather than the problem they ask about is both arrogant and belittling. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Hi Linda, USS - meaning Unix System Services, not the VTAM term Unformatted Session Services :-)) Ok, an example. Say I want to expand HLQ.MY.HFS mounted at '/usr/lpp/my' and I'm at a point of time where I can unmount that file temporarily. Create HLQ.MY.COPY.HFS with more space. Create directory '/temp' in the sysplex ROOT (actually I always have a few of these temporary mount points in case I need them). Mount HLQ.MY.COPY.HFS at 'temp'. Go into TSO ISH and select Run shell command(SH) from the Tools pull down. On the command screen, enter: /samples/copytree -a /usr/lpp/my /temp This will copy all of the files to the new file. When complete, unmount HLQ.MY.HFS from '/usr/lpp/my', unmount HLQ.MY.COPY.HFS from '/temp'. Delete or rename HLQ.MY.HFS then rename HLQ.MY.COPY.HFS to HLQ.MY.HFS and mount it at '/usr/lpp/my' and you're done. You do all of this from TSO OMVS also, if you prefer. You can see more details about the 'copytree' process by entering 'man copytree' on the Run shell commands(SH) screen or the OMVS prompt. Dick Bond Department of Information Services CSD Production Support di...@dis.wa.gov Notice: This document contains information about the infrastructure and security of the state of Washington’s computer and telecommunication networks. Please make every effort to control access to this document and the information within it. All or part of this document may be exempt from public disclosure pursuant to RCW 42.56.420 (1) and (4). Please immediately direct any requests for public disclosure of all or part of this document to the DIS public disclosure officer at: publicdisclos...@dis.wa.gov -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Mooney Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Hi Dick, Nobody here, me included, has ever used copytree. None of us know much about USS at all, although I am determined to learn - if it kills me! I need to end up with the same structure and directory names that I have now, just with more space available. Can copytree do that? How would I mount the new and old HFS files for the copytree process? Thanks, Linda - Original Message - From: Dick Bond (DIS) di...@dis.wa.gov To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2011 8:50:35 AM Subject: Re: HFS file questions An easy and reliable (at least I've found it so) is: /samples/copytree -a sourcedir targetdir Mount a new HFS at a targetdir, run copytree then unmount old and mount new, if that's doable in your circumstances. Whenever possible, I like to stick with OMVS copy methods when dealing with OMVS files rather than worry about DFDSS or FDRCOPY. Just a personal preference. Dick Bond Department of Information Services CSD Production Support di...@dis.wa.gov Notice: This document contains information about the infrastructure and security of the state of Washington’s computer and telecommunication networks. Please make every effort to control access to this document and the information within it. All or part of this document may be exempt from public disclosure pursuant to RCW 42.56.420 (1) and (4). Please immediately direct any requests for public disclosure of all or part of this document to the DIS public disclosure officer at: publicdisclos...@dis.wa.gov -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Rob Schramm Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:30 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Linda, In order to make sure you get a clean copy using FDRCOPY, you'll have to either quiese or unmount the filesystem before doing the copy to a new/backup data set. HFS is very intolerant of fuzzy copies. As for the expansion, this is way easier with zfs v.s. hfs. It has been a while since I have dealt with HFS... so maybe one of the other members knows the answer. If there isn't an easy way.. then: 1) make a new hfs/zfs file 2) mount it somewhere like /u/temp 3) there are various methods .. I have seen various documents indicating use of pax. I have just run a cp command with recursive and preserve cp -Rp. Rob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:54:58 +1100, Stephen Mednick ibmm...@css.au.com wrote: Not quite correct as far as the use of FDRCOPY goes. On the COPY statement there is the keyword HFS=QUIESCE which to quote from the manual: HFS= QUIESCE â Invokes special processing when Hierarchical File System (HFS) data sets are copied. HFS=QUIESCE implies DSNENQ=USE so it will first attempt to get a SYSDSN enqueue on the file. If the enqueue fails, it probably means that the file system is mounted to UNIX System Services (USS), so a âquiesceâ call is issued to prevent updates to the data set during the copy. If the quiesce fails and ENQERR=BYPASS was specified, the HFS data set will not be copied. See section 80.11 for details and security requirements. NOTE: HFS=QUIESCE implies DSNENQ=USE (described earlier) for all data sets being backed up, not just HFS data sets. HFS=QUIESCE does not apply when moving HFS data sets; they must be dismounted before the MOVE. Default: HFS data sets will not be quiesced unless HFSQUIESCE is set to YES in the FDR Global Options Table (see section 90.13). If you use the default, you should unmount the file system before the backup to be sure of getting a usable backup. Has Innovation fixed HFS=QUIESCE to work for zFS yet? Or created a new keyword? Last I checked it wasn't supported so I have to use zfsadm to do it prior to copy (in particular my cloning process of my sysres maintenance zFS files).As far as I know, that quiesce call / API is the exact same for HFS and zFS so it would be a trivial change for the software to just check for zFS and do the quiesce if HFS=QUIESCE was specified instead of ignoring it as it does today. Innovation's support has always been top notch but this particular item really irks me considering I've had zFS set up since z/OS 1.4. have been using zFS regularly since z/OS 1.6 and all but eliminated HFS usage since z/OS 1.8. Mark -- Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS mailto:mzel...@flash.net Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Linda, we do a DSS Dump/Restore to increase an HFS when it's out of extents. Our job has a step to unmount, one to DSS Dump, one to alter to a different name, one to DSS Restore with a new/catlg of the old name, and then a step to remount. We only use Alter to addvolumes. Not sure if you can alter secondary. Or primary, for that matter. Mary Anne -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
An easy and reliable (at least I've found it so) is: /samples/copytree -a sourcedir targetdir Mount a new HFS at a targetdir, run copytree then unmount old and mount new, if that's doable in your circumstances. Whenever possible, I like to stick with OMVS copy methods when dealing with OMVS files rather than worry about DFDSS or FDRCOPY. Just a personal preference. Dick Bond Department of Information Services CSD Production Support di...@dis.wa.gov Notice: This document contains information about the infrastructure and security of the state of Washington’s computer and telecommunication networks. Please make every effort to control access to this document and the information within it. All or part of this document may be exempt from public disclosure pursuant to RCW 42.56.420 (1) and (4). Please immediately direct any requests for public disclosure of all or part of this document to the DIS public disclosure officer at: publicdisclos...@dis.wa.gov -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Rob Schramm Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:30 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Linda, In order to make sure you get a clean copy using FDRCOPY, you'll have to either quiese or unmount the filesystem before doing the copy to a new/backup data set. HFS is very intolerant of fuzzy copies. As for the expansion, this is way easier with zfs v.s. hfs. It has been a while since I have dealt with HFS... so maybe one of the other members knows the answer. If there isn't an easy way.. then: 1) make a new hfs/zfs file 2) mount it somewhere like /u/temp 3) there are various methods .. I have seen various documents indicating use of pax. I have just run a cp command with recursive and preserve cp -Rp. Rob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Hi Stephen, Tha nks for the info on FDRCOPY. Until now, we have not unmounted or used the HFS=QUIESCE or the entry in the global options table. I will start to use the HFS=QUIESCE coding. So just for verification, if I code HFS=QUIESCE and ENQERR=BYPASS, I can run without unmounting the files and either get a good backup or an abend if some other process has the file for update. Yes?? I suppose we got 'lucky' on that one because all write acivity is very tightly controlled and we have a pretty minimal HFS setup - no personal files, no applications, no WebShpere. Just the required stuff and a pot load of documentation that is produced by a bunch of folks, but put into the HSF files by one of only two people. Course now, I am adding datasets, and changing things. :-)) Thanks, Linda - Original Message - From: Stephen Mednick ibmm...@css.au.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2011 7:54:58 PM Subject: Re: HFS file questions Not quite correct as far as the use of FDRCOPY goes. On the COPY statement there is the keyword HFS=QUIESCE which to quote from the manual: HFS= QUIESCE – Invokes special processing when Hierarchical File System (HFS) data sets are copied. HFS=QUIESCE implies DSNENQ=USE so it will first attempt to get a SYSDSN enqueue on the file. If the enqueue fails, it probably means that the file system is mounted to UNIX System Services (USS), so a “quiesce” call is issued to prevent updates to the data set during the copy. If the quiesce fails and ENQERR=BYPASS was specified, the HFS data set will not be copied. See section 80.11 for details and security requirements. NOTE: HFS=QUIESCE implies DSNENQ=USE (described earlier) for all data sets being backed up, not just HFS data sets. HFS=QUIESCE does not apply when moving HFS data sets; they must be dismounted before the MOVE. Default: HFS data sets will not be quiesced unless HFSQUIESCE is set to YES in the FDR Global Options Table (see section 90.13). If you use the default, you should unmount the file system before the backup to be sure of getting a usable backup. Stephen Mednick Computer Supervisory Services Sydney, Australia Asia/Pacific representatives for Innovation Data Processing, Inc. -Original Message- In order to make sure you get a clean copy using FDRCOPY, you'll have to either quiese or unmount the filesystem before doing the copy to a new/backup data set. HFS is very intolerant of fuzzy copies. As for the expansion, this is way easier with zfs v.s. hfs. It has been a while since I have dealt with HFS... so maybe one of the other members knows the answer. If there isn't an easy way.. then: 1) make a new hfs/zfs file 2) mount it somewhere like /u/temp 3) there are various methods .. I have seen various documents indicating use of pax. I have just run a cp command with recursive and preserve cp -Rp. Rob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Thanks Mary Anne. That sounds like it would do it. Any chance you could share some samples with me? I know CA-Disk really well, FDR somewhat, but DSS by little more than the name... :-/ Linda - Original Message - From: Mary Anne Matyaz maryanne4...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2011 6:34:25 AM Subject: Re: HFS file questions Linda, we do a DSS Dump/Restore to increase an HFS when it's out of extents. Our job has a step to unmount, one to DSS Dump, one to alter to a different name, one to DSS Restore with a new/catlg of the old name, and then a step to remount. We only use Alter to addvolumes. Not sure if you can alter secondary. Or primary, for that matter. Mary Anne -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Hi Dick, Nobody here, me included, has ever used copytree. None of us know much about USS at all, although I am determined to learn - if it kills me! I need to end up with the same structure and directory names that I have now, just with more space available. Can copytree do that? How would I mount the new and old HFS files for the copytree process? Thanks, Linda - Original Message - From: Dick Bond (DIS) di...@dis.wa.gov To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2011 8:50:35 AM Subject: Re: HFS file questions An easy and reliable (at least I've found it so) is: /samples/copytree -a sourcedir targetdir Mount a new HFS at a targetdir, run copytree then unmount old and mount new, if that's doable in your circumstances. Whenever possible, I like to stick with OMVS copy methods when dealing with OMVS files rather than worry about DFDSS or FDRCOPY. Just a personal preference. Dick Bond Department of Information Services CSD Production Support di...@dis.wa.gov Notice: This document contains information about the infrastructure and security of the state of Washington’s computer and telecommunication networks. Please make every effort to control access to this document and the information within it. All or part of this document may be exempt from public disclosure pursuant to RCW 42.56.420 (1) and (4). Please immediately direct any requests for public disclosure of all or part of this document to the DIS public disclosure officer at: publicdisclos...@dis.wa.gov -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Rob Schramm Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:30 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Linda, In order to make sure you get a clean copy using FDRCOPY, you'll have to either quiese or unmount the filesystem before doing the copy to a new/backup data set. HFS is very intolerant of fuzzy copies. As for the expansion, this is way easier with zfs v.s. hfs. It has been a while since I have dealt with HFS... so maybe one of the other members knows the answer. If there isn't an easy way.. then: 1) make a new hfs/zfs file 2) mount it somewhere like /u/temp 3) there are various methods .. I have seen various documents indicating use of pax. I have just run a cp command with recursive and preserve cp -Rp. Rob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Depending on your file system activity something like the following might be acceptable: /usr/sbin/mount -t HFS -f NEW.HFS /yyy pax -rwvCDM -p eW /xxx /yyy /usr/sbin/unmount -o normal -f NEW.HFS == z/OS 1.11 /usr/sbin/unmount -o normal /yyy /usr/sbin/unmount -o normal -f OLD.HFS == z/OS 1.11 /usr/sbin/unmount -o normal /xxx /usr/sbin/mount -t HFS -f NEW.HFS /xxx Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Mooney Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Hi Dick, Nobody here, me included, has ever used copytree. None of us know much about USS at all, although I am determined to learn - if it kills me! I need to end up with the same structure and directory names that I have now, just with more space available. Can copytree do that? How would I mount the new and old HFS files for the copytree process? Thanks, Linda - Original Message - From: Dick Bond (DIS) di...@dis.wa.gov To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2011 8:50:35 AM Subject: Re: HFS file questions An easy and reliable (at least I've found it so) is: /samples/copytree -a sourcedir targetdir Mount a new HFS at a targetdir, run copytree then unmount old and mount new, if that's doable in your circumstances. Whenever possible, I like to stick with OMVS copy methods when dealing with OMVS files rather than worry about DFDSS or FDRCOPY. Just a personal preference. Dick Bond Department of Information Services CSD Production Support di...@dis.wa.gov Notice: This document contains information about the infrastructure and security of the state of Washington’s computer and telecommunication networks. Please make every effort to control access to this document and the information within it. All or part of this document may be exempt from public disclosure pursuant to RCW 42.56.420 (1) and (4). Please immediately direct any requests for public disclosure of all or part of this document to the DIS public disclosure officer at: publicdisclos...@dis.wa.gov -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Rob Schramm Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:30 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HFS file questions Linda, In order to make sure you get a clean copy using FDRCOPY, you'll have to either quiese or unmount the filesystem before doing the copy to a new/backup data set. HFS is very intolerant of fuzzy copies. As for the expansion, this is way easier with zfs v.s. hfs. It has been a while since I have dealt with HFS... so maybe one of the other members knows the answer. If there isn't an easy way.. then: 1) make a new hfs/zfs file 2) mount it somewhere like /u/temp 3) there are various methods .. I have seen various documents indicating use of pax. I have just run a cp command with recursive and preserve cp -Rp. Rob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
On 2/9/2011 4:40 PM, Linda Mooney wrote: Hi Dick, Nobody here, me included, has ever used copytree. None of us know much about USS at all, although I am determined to learn - if it kills me! We can help that, and you'll survive just fine. Consider: Introduction to z/OS UNIX - 3 days http://www.trainersfriend.com/UNIX_and_Web_courses/u510descr.htm Shell Script Programming in z/OS UNIX - 3 days http://www.trainersfriend.com/UNIX_and_Web_courses/u515descr.htm Admittedly, we focus on all this from the perspective of application programmers rather than systems programmers, but, hey, a 'chmod' command is the same for everyone. 3 or 6 days of lecture with directed, hands-on labs can get you up to speed so you can be productive faster than bumbling around the docs with trial and error. Then you can build on this background as you need to expand your horizons, since you'll have a solid base. This stuff is fun, and even necessary today. If you think it's too expensive, check out our ROI estimator (see the last line in my signature). -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
HFS file questions
Greetings! I have a couple of basic questions about HFS files. In this case, none of these files are shared, they are mounted read/write, and I have full authority over them. 1) I have an HFS file that has many documents stored in it. It was originally defined without secondary and now it is out of space - Management class . . : **None** Allocated cylinders : 300 Storage class . . . : **None** Allocated extents . : 1 Volume serial . . . : HFSTZ3 Device type . . . . : 3390 Data class . . . . . : **None** Current Utilization Organization . . . : PO Used pages . . . . : 53,972 Record format . . . : U % Utilized . . . . : 99 Record length . . . : 0 Block size . . . . : 0 1st extent cylinders: 300 Secondary cylinders : 0 Data set name type : HFS How can I safely give it more space? Would IDCAMS ALTER to give it secondary work/be safe? Would I need to UNMOUNT it first? 2) Until recently, we have had only a small number of HFS files, and until now we have done FDR full pack backups for them. I now have several large files that I have added to the environment that are very static, but they are SMS controlled and multi-volume. I would like to use FDRCOPY to back up these large SMS controlled HFS files to a different file name. Would that work? Thanks, Linda -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Linda, In order to make sure you get a clean copy using FDRCOPY, you'll have to either quiese or unmount the filesystem before doing the copy to a new/backup data set. HFS is very intolerant of fuzzy copies. As for the expansion, this is way easier with zfs v.s. hfs. It has been a while since I have dealt with HFS... so maybe one of the other members knows the answer. If there isn't an easy way.. then: 1) make a new hfs/zfs file 2) mount it somewhere like /u/temp 3) there are various methods .. I have seen various documents indicating use of pax. I have just run a cp command with recursive and preserve cp -Rp. Rob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HFS file questions
Not quite correct as far as the use of FDRCOPY goes. On the COPY statement there is the keyword HFS=QUIESCE which to quote from the manual: HFS= QUIESCE – Invokes special processing when Hierarchical File System (HFS) data sets are copied. HFS=QUIESCE implies DSNENQ=USE so it will first attempt to get a SYSDSN enqueue on the file. If the enqueue fails, it probably means that the file system is mounted to UNIX System Services (USS), so a “quiesce” call is issued to prevent updates to the data set during the copy. If the quiesce fails and ENQERR=BYPASS was specified, the HFS data set will not be copied. See section 80.11 for details and security requirements. NOTE: HFS=QUIESCE implies DSNENQ=USE (described earlier) for all data sets being backed up, not just HFS data sets. HFS=QUIESCE does not apply when moving HFS data sets; they must be dismounted before the MOVE. Default: HFS data sets will not be quiesced unless HFSQUIESCE is set to YES in the FDR Global Options Table (see section 90.13). If you use the default, you should unmount the file system before the backup to be sure of getting a usable backup. Stephen Mednick Computer Supervisory Services Sydney, Australia Asia/Pacific representatives for Innovation Data Processing, Inc. -Original Message- In order to make sure you get a clean copy using FDRCOPY, you'll have to either quiese or unmount the filesystem before doing the copy to a new/backup data set. HFS is very intolerant of fuzzy copies. As for the expansion, this is way easier with zfs v.s. hfs. It has been a while since I have dealt with HFS... so maybe one of the other members knows the answer. If there isn't an easy way.. then: 1) make a new hfs/zfs file 2) mount it somewhere like /u/temp 3) there are various methods .. I have seen various documents indicating use of pax. I have just run a cp command with recursive and preserve cp -Rp. Rob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
