Downloads from Fedora on Linux was Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
On 4 Feb 2009 18:35:47 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: >On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > >> Good question. I know that John is an NFS user (at least >> Linux server; z/OS client). I believe that SMF data are >> RECFM=VBS. I know that if a VBS file is overridden to >> RECFM=U it can be reconstructed from the RDWs (I've done >> it in Rexx with an IEBCOPY-unloaded library). But is >> there any way to trick the z/OS NFS server into presenting >> an SMF log to the client as such a byte stream? > >I didn't try NFS. My Linux box is down for a while. It (not I) am accused >of streaming data at 7Mbs over our external Internet connection, causing >much weeping and wailing. I have no idea what could have done this. I >didn't do anything. The LAN people said it was "7Mbs encrypted downloads >from Fedora". Whatever that really means. Since Fedora is the general public Linux distribution for Red Hat my guess is that it is some kind of update. Red Hat may encrypt them. > >> >> The alternative is to override to RECFM=U,FILEDATA=BINARY >> in JCL and IEBGENER to the Linux NFS server. >> >> Does Java on z/OS understand RECFM=VBS legacy data sets? > >Not directly. But I do an FTP with QUOTE SITE RDW or Co:Z "fromdsn" with >standard IBM RDWs. I have written Java code which can read this by >decoding the RDWs in the code. It's ugly code (IMO), but not too >difficult. > >> >> What's the relative cost of CPU cycles on z/OS vs. desktop? >> >> -- gil > >about 200 zillion to one . My desktop is basically "free" due to its >age. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
John, Yes, the JZOS "fields" package and even the generator tool will run on any Java platform - they are 100% java. For the generator tool, you have to give it an ADATA file from the Enterprise Cobol compiler, but you can download that file and run the generator on a PC. The JZOS Cookbook has examples and Ant scripts for doing this. Kirk On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 1:44 PM, John McKown wrote: > On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 08:52:11 -0600, Kirk Wolf wrote: > >>John, >> >>The JZOS Cookbook (on alphaWorks) has code samples and a nice little >>class for reading RDW-delimited records. Not ugly at all :-) > > Do these classes work on a non-z? I.e. are they "pure Java"? If not, then > that doesn't help me to process SMF on Linux or Windows . > > -- > John > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 08:52:11 -0600, Kirk Wolf wrote: >John, > >The JZOS Cookbook (on alphaWorks) has code samples and a nice little >class for reading RDW-delimited records. Not ugly at all :-) Do these classes work on a non-z? I.e. are they "pure Java"? If not, then that doesn't help me to process SMF on Linux or Windows . -- John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
John, The JZOS Cookbook (on alphaWorks) has code samples and a nice little class for reading RDW-delimited records. Not ugly at all :-) There are also examples in the cookbook of using the (Cobol) copy book to Java tools. The ASM Dsect utility is similar. The difficult part of many SMF records is that they are often aggregations of subtype records. Look at the SMF 119 (FTP) records for example.The JZOS generator tool will help you with some of the low level drudgery, but it will still be a bit of work to write the code to stitch the subtypes together. If SAS is inexpensive on a PC and you can run MXG on it supported, then why not use it? Replicating even a small subset of MXG's functionality seems like a huge effort. A very slick approach is to a Co:Z batch job to launch SAS/MXG on a PC and pipe the SMF records directly into the load process. You could even kick this off with a IEFU29 exit. Kirk On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 8:32 PM, John McKown wrote: > On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > >> Good question. I know that John is an NFS user (at least >> Linux server; z/OS client). I believe that SMF data are >> RECFM=VBS. I know that if a VBS file is overridden to >> RECFM=U it can be reconstructed from the RDWs (I've done >> it in Rexx with an IEBCOPY-unloaded library). But is >> there any way to trick the z/OS NFS server into presenting >> an SMF log to the client as such a byte stream? > > I didn't try NFS. My Linux box is down for a while. It (not I) am accused > of streaming data at 7Mbs over our external Internet connection, causing > much weeping and wailing. I have no idea what could have done this. I > didn't do anything. The LAN people said it was "7Mbs encrypted downloads > from Fedora". Whatever that really means. > >> >> The alternative is to override to RECFM=U,FILEDATA=BINARY >> in JCL and IEBGENER to the Linux NFS server. >> >> Does Java on z/OS understand RECFM=VBS legacy data sets? > > Not directly. But I do an FTP with QUOTE SITE RDW or Co:Z "fromdsn" with > standard IBM RDWs. I have written Java code which can read this by > decoding the RDWs in the code. It's ugly code (IMO), but not too > difficult. > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
In what service class does the SMF processing run? Does the processing have any impact on your monthly peak four hour rolling average? If yes, does it need to? [You can probably figure out where these questions are headed, and I'm surprised nobody else asked already. What, no cost experts in the IBM-MAIN house? :-)] - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan / Asia-Pacific E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
Ted, How does a Canadian say tomato... The CPU cost is the differentiator that you refer to. The additional cost of interpretive languages is that each line of the source code must be evaluated and acted on for every iteration of the code. This is classic CLIST or REXX. No matter how you label the compile/interpretation phase of SAS, the execution phase does not result in line by line interpretation of the source, and thus no interpretive cost. There is a compile and translate cost, but the difference between compile and interpret is more than mere semantics. I don't write REXX or CLIST - I often wonder about that - but from past tests I know that the CPU cost of the following SAS program compares favorably with REPRO and beats IEBGENER, and I'd like to compare it with REXX and CLIST equivalents. Data _null_; Infile ifile; File ofile; Input @; Put _infile_; Return; Run; I'm sure your point only pertains to the data step. It would be a hard argument to convince anyone that PROC SORT parsing into execution DFSORT or SYNCSORT will have interpretive CPU costs. Ron > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of > Ted MacNEIL > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:03 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z? > > >SAS data steps are not interpreted, they are compiled and executed. > > Now you are getting semantically involved! > > >Would you say that a compile-load-go PL/I job is not compiled? That seems to > be what you're saying, but I don't think that falls within the commonly > accepted meaning of the term. > > The difference is that I can keep PL/I object and load code if I want to. > With SAS, regardless I cannot. > So, translation/interpretation (or whatever you want to call it) is there for > every run, whether I want it or not. > Therefore, the overhead is there everytime, regardless of what it is called. > That was my only point. > > You can argue what you want to call it, but it's still there EVERY run. > > This argument happened, last year. > Hit the archives; I'm not going to have it, again. > > - > Too busy driving to stop for gas! > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
Ted, > > The only problems with MXG on a non-mainframe platform is network capacity (to > get the data down) and disk capacity (to store the data). > While the disk is cheaper than mainframe disk, it still has a non-zero cost. > > As you have read on the MXG list, storage is not such a big problem. Gb Ethernet infrastructure in the glasshouse is extremely cheap and easy to configure, and the existing storage can be used by: 1) Reading the SMF data through the FTP access method 2) Storing your PDB on the MF via CIFS I use the FTP access all the time to read SMF data from my LPARs. There is no redundant storage or movement of the datasets, and they remain safely backed up and archived by DFSMShsm. For my PDB I store them on a Filer, backed with Rack & Stack SATA storage. These directories are mounted as standard Network drives to windows. I used iSCSI before that, and moved to the filer to help infrastructure. The PDB could just as easily be supported on SATA or Fibre Channel arrays from HDS, EMC, Dell, or your local Fry's store at a competitive TCO to your MF storage - YMMV. Ron -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
>SAS data steps are not interpreted, they are compiled and executed. Now you are getting semantically involved! >Would you say that a compile-load-go PL/I job is not compiled? That seems to >be what you're saying, but I don't think that falls within the commonly >accepted meaning of the term. The difference is that I can keep PL/I object and load code if I want to. With SAS, regardless I cannot. So, translation/interpretation (or whatever you want to call it) is there for every run, whether I want it or not. Therefore, the overhead is there everytime, regardless of what it is called. That was my only point. You can argue what you want to call it, but it's still there EVERY run. This argument happened, last year. Hit the archives; I'm not going to have it, again. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
>>But, if youy run into a problem, you have to reproduce it with SAS, before >>Doctor Barry will investigate. >Do you mean *not* reproduce it with SAS? Are they striving for that level of >bug-compatibility? No. I meant what I said. Dr. Barry will not investigate any WPS problem. It has to be produced with SAS. He has nothing to do with WPS, itself. He is MXG. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
You guys are almost inspiring me to write up some Java code to read the SMF data and perhaps populate SQL tables in some DBMS. Since I don't have any good way to read SMF data right now, having something I could use would really be cool :) If I only had the time... David Logan Manager of Product Development, Pitney Bowes Business Insight http://centrus.com W: (720) 564-3056 C: (303) 818-8222 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of jack.hamil...@kp.org Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 15:42 To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z? Semantics = Meaning. Meaning is important. SAS data steps are not interpreted, they are compiled and executed. Would you say that a compile-load-go PL/I job is not compiled? That seems to be what you're saying, but I don't think that falls within the commonly accepted meaning of the term. -- Jack Hamilton Management Information & Analysis - Analytic Information Services Kaiser Foundation Health Plan, Inc. 1950 Franklin Street, Oakland, California 94612 +1 510 987-1556 (KP tieline 8-427-1556) NOTE: This email document and attachments are covered by CA Evidence Code §1157 and CA Health and Safety Code §1370. NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you. Ted MacNEIL Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 02/04/2009 12:45 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: [IBM-MAIN] insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z? >SAS data steps are compiled, not interpreted. Semantics! I run a first time SAS step. It's not compiled when I submit the job. It has to be interpreted, the compiled. SAS Institute had a way to keep compiled code, but I don't know if that still exists. If the code has been written and submitted without compilation, and executed, in one run, it's interpreted. The rest is semantics! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > Good question. I know that John is an NFS user (at least > Linux server; z/OS client). I believe that SMF data are > RECFM=VBS. I know that if a VBS file is overridden to > RECFM=U it can be reconstructed from the RDWs (I've done > it in Rexx with an IEBCOPY-unloaded library). But is > there any way to trick the z/OS NFS server into presenting > an SMF log to the client as such a byte stream? I didn't try NFS. My Linux box is down for a while. It (not I) am accused of streaming data at 7Mbs over our external Internet connection, causing much weeping and wailing. I have no idea what could have done this. I didn't do anything. The LAN people said it was "7Mbs encrypted downloads from Fedora". Whatever that really means. > > The alternative is to override to RECFM=U,FILEDATA=BINARY > in JCL and IEBGENER to the Linux NFS server. > > Does Java on z/OS understand RECFM=VBS legacy data sets? Not directly. But I do an FTP with QUOTE SITE RDW or Co:Z "fromdsn" with standard IBM RDWs. I have written Java code which can read this by decoding the RDWs in the code. It's ugly code (IMO), but not too difficult. > > What's the relative cost of CPU cycles on z/OS vs. desktop? > > -- gil about 200 zillion to one . My desktop is basically "free" due to its age. -- Q: What do theoretical physicists drink beer from? A: Ein Stein. Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
We have had a couple of people report that they have been successful in using Co:Z in a z/OS jobstep to launch the Windows SAS job and pipe it SMF data. If you are going to do this, it would be best to set up Co:Z for "non-tunneling" mode, so that your potentially huge file transfers will ride on a raw socket rather than being tunneled in SSH. This will reduce CPU and improve network throughput. As far as using Java - IBM has recently published some work that we did for them in the JZOS alphaWorks project that you might want to look at. There is a took that allows you to map Cobol copy books or Assembler DSECTs into Java record-mapping code. You can run this code on any platform, so that might be one solution to making the process a little easier. It still seems like a aweful lot of work to me. Kirk Wolf Dovetailed Technologies http://dovetail.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
Semantics = Meaning. Meaning is important. SAS data steps are not interpreted, they are compiled and executed. Would you say that a compile-load-go PL/I job is not compiled? That seems to be what you're saying, but I don't think that falls within the commonly accepted meaning of the term. -- Jack Hamilton Management Information & Analysis - Analytic Information Services Kaiser Foundation Health Plan, Inc. 1950 Franklin Street, Oakland, California 94612 +1 510 987-1556 (KP tieline 8-427-1556) NOTE: This email document and attachments are covered by CA Evidence Code §1157 and CA Health and Safety Code §1370. NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you. Ted MacNEIL Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 02/04/2009 12:45 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: [IBM-MAIN] insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z? >SAS data steps are compiled, not interpreted. Semantics! I run a first time SAS step. It's not compiled when I submit the job. It has to be interpreted, the compiled. SAS Institute had a way to keep compiled code, but I don't know if that still exists. If the code has been written and submitted without compilation, and executed, in one run, it's interpreted. The rest is semantics! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:59:23 -0600, Walt Farrell wrote: >On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:30:23 -0600, John McKown wrote: > >>But I was curious if anybody has ever used anything else, such as Java, to >>process SMF data on a Windows or Linux box? Or is that just too crazy? > >If you did decide to use Java, why does that require moving the data off of >z/OS? > Good question. I know that John is an NFS user (at least Linux server; z/OS client). I believe that SMF data are RECFM=VBS. I know that if a VBS file is overridden to RECFM=U it can be reconstructed from the RDWs (I've done it in Rexx with an IEBCOPY-unloaded library). But is there any way to trick the z/OS NFS server into presenting an SMF log to the client as such a byte stream? The alternative is to override to RECFM=U,FILEDATA=BINARY in JCL and IEBGENER to the Linux NFS server. Does Java on z/OS understand RECFM=VBS legacy data sets? What's the relative cost of CPU cycles on z/OS vs. desktop? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 19:02:44 +, Ted MacNEIL wrote: > >WPS (written in JAVA) already exists, and you can use it with MXG. >But, if youy run into a problem, you have to reproduce it with SAS, before >Doctor Barry will investigate. > Do you mean *not* reproduce it with SAS? Are they striving for that level of bug-compatibility? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
>SAS data steps are compiled, not interpreted. Semantics! I run a first time SAS step. It's not compiled when I submit the job. It has to be interpreted, the compiled. SAS Institute had a way to keep compiled code, but I don't know if that still exists. If the code has been written and submitted without compilation, and executed, in one run, it's interpreted. The rest is semantics! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
SAS data steps are compiled, not interpreted. According to a developer I have spoken to, data step code is first turned into a platform-independent p-code (I don't think he actually used the term p-code), and then a platform-dependent module turns that into machine code. This may not result in the most efficient possibly machine code, but nevertheless data steps are compiled, not interpreted. (There are some features, such as the RESOLVE function, that allow for very limited types of dynamic code to be run during a data step.) SAS PROCs are also compiled. There are some procedures that use interpreted code (the data step-like langauage in PROC IML, for example). In general, SAS PROCs build complicated internal data structures and have a lot of conditionally executed code, so they are not as efficient as non-general code might be, but they are compiled. SAS macros are not compiled to machine code as far as I know. SAS can be very fast. It is perceived to be slow, I think, because it is so easy to write code that is very inefficient but still produces the desired results. Business analysts who use SAS are not usually trained to create efficient programs. It is not unusual for a SAS programmer to be able to reduce the run time of a SAS business analyst's code by 50% or more, but few companies are willing to make that investment. -- Jack Hamilton Management Information & Analysis - Analytic Information Services Kaiser Foundation Health Plan, Inc. 1950 Franklin Street, Oakland, California 94612 +1 510 987-1556 (KP tieline 8-427-1556) NOTE: This email document and attachments are covered by CA Evidence Code §1157 and CA Health and Safety Code §1370. NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you. Ted MacNEIL Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 02/04/2009 12:06 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: [IBM-MAIN] insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z? >>>WPS (written in JAVA) already exists >Really? What sense would that make to save on SAS costs and then run something that is even more of a CPU hog? Knee-Jerk reaction! Speaking as a long-time performance analyst, JAVA can be optimised. >Even on a zAAP it would still be expensive. The software costs probably mitigate the hardware costs. And, SAS CPU (as an interpreter) isn't cheap either. I have not done an evaluation, but I would bet WPS beats out SAS by cost alone. The only way to find out is to meaure, without prejudice. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
We have had a couple of people report that they have been successful in using Co:Z in a z/OS jobstep to launch the Windows SAS job and pipe it SMF data. If you are going to do this, it would be best to set up Co:Z for "non-tunneling" mode, so that your potentially huge file transfers will ride on a raw socket rather than being tunneled in SSH. This will reduce CPU and improve network throughput. As far as using Java - IBM has recently published some work that we did for them in the JZOS alphaWorks project that you might want to look at. There is a took that allows you to map Cobol copy books or Assembler DSECTs into Java record-mapping code. You can run this code on any platform, so that might be one solution to making the process a little easier. It still seems like a aweful lot of work to me Kirk Wolf Dovetailed Technologies On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 12:30 PM, John McKown wrote: > We are losing our SAS license. Cost containment. We are looking at getting > our main SAS user a Window desktop license so that he can continue to use > MXG. Apparently this is fairly popular. > > But I was curious if anybody has ever used anything else, such as Java, to > process SMF data on a Windows or Linux box? Or is that just too crazy? > > -- > John > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
>>>WPS (written in JAVA) already exists >Really? What sense would that make to save on SAS costs and then run >something that is even more of a CPU hog? Knee-Jerk reaction! Speaking as a long-time performance analyst, JAVA can be optimised. >Even on a zAAP it would still be expensive. The software costs probably mitigate the hardware costs. And, SAS CPU (as an interpreter) isn't cheap either. I have not done an evaluation, but I would bet WPS beats out SAS by cost alone. The only way to find out is to meaure, without prejudice. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
>We tried to get hold of them. My manager got so frustrated that he has sent >them to the garbage bin. As he said: "If I can't get hold of the sales people, >what chance would I have for tech support???". Unfortunate! At the time I was looking at WPS, they were crawling all over us to get us to look at the product. But, at the time MXG had a much harder stance against it, so we dropped the whole thing, and went with SAS. >He said that the Web site would not do "anything" about getting a trial. Bad marketting! Not a good way to penetrate the market. >Some sort of error that just sent him over the edge. And no response to emails. As I said, unfortunate! And, I agree with your manager. (Rarely, do I agree with management( - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 19:02:44 +, Ted MacNEIL wrote: > >WPS (written in JAVA) already exists Really? What sense would that make to save on SAS costs and then run something that is even more of a CPU hog? Even on a zAAP it would still be expensive.I thought WPS it relied on LE, so I would have guessed it was written in C / C++.- Not SAS/C though! :-) Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
>I would think it'd take a long time to redo the several thousand man-years of >work that MXG represents. And Dr. Merrill might get upset if you were to just >translate the SOURCLIB into Java or Whatever. The WPS solution is NOT translating the SOURCLIB. Who said we were going to do that? Rather, it's running it with a different interpreter. When WPS first came out, he wouldn't touch it. Now, he says that if you have a problem with MXG using WPS, re-run with SAS (difficult if you don't have a SAS licence). If the problem recurrs, he'll look into it. In other words, it's sort of a passive support stance. Of course, I'm just (mis-)quoting his statements on his web-site. Go to www.mxg.com to get his direct comments; don't depend on mine. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:59:23 -0600, Walt Farrell wrote: > >If you did decide to use Java, why does that require moving the data off of >z/OS? > >Just curious... > >-- > Walt 1) no CPU power to run Java on our current system 2) no money to get a zAAP 3) Intel is dirt cheap compared to "z" MIPS. All, in all, Linux/Intel or Windows/Intel is so much cheaper than the z, that using one of them, where possible, is preferred. Let's not get into TCO discussions. "Intel is more cost effective" is the mantra around here and that is that. Trying to convince people otherwise is unwise. off topic point - some may remember that in 2002, the then-management wanted to replace the "z" with Wintel on a particular vendor's boxes. Vendor promised performance and RAS equal to or better than "z". We are now totally replacing that vendor's hardware due to reliability problems. No, I won't reveal the vendor. These boxes are __OLD__ (the 2002 boxes, in fact). -- John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 12:51 -0600, Scott Barry wrote: > consider the SAS-alternative WPS [...] Visit the website below > and you can request a WPC trial Unfortunately, pricing for z/OS appears to be $CALL. -- David Andrews A. Duda and Sons, Inc. david.andr...@duda.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
>SAS/MXG on a non-mainframe platform is actually pretty inexpensive. At a >prior employer, I did just that along with MXG running on SUSE linux on Intel. > For us, it ran faster than on the mainframe. It was a small shop, so there was not an overabundance of SMF data. The only problems with MXG on a non-mainframe platform is network capacity (to get the data down) and disk capacity (to store the data). While the disk is cheaper than mainframe disk, it still has a non-zero cost. >As zfor your question of rolling your own via JAVA, sounds like a fulltime job. WPS (written in JAVA) already exists, and you can use it with MXG. But, if youy run into a problem, you have to reproduce it with SAS, before Doctor Barry will investigate. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:51:24 -0600, Scott Barry wrote: >Most definitely consider the SAS-alternative WPS from World Programming >(WPS). The software runs most SAS Base application language, and it is >certified for MXG on both Windows and z/OS. The product is evolving and >possibly in 2009, it will be certified for use with CA MICS, as I learned >recently at CA World. Visit the website below and you can request a WPC >trial install very easily. > >Scott Barry >SBBWorks, Inc. > Scott, We tried to get hold of them. My manager got so frustrated that he has sent them to the garbage bin. As he said: "If I can't get hold of the sales people, what chance would I have for tech support???". He said that the Web site would not do "anything" about getting a trial. Some sort of error that just sent him over the edge. And no response to emails. -- John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:30:23 -0600, John McKown wrote: >We are losing our SAS license. Cost containment. We are looking at getting >our main SAS user a Window desktop license so that he can continue to use >MXG. Apparently this is fairly popular. > >But I was curious if anybody has ever used anything else, such as Java, to >process SMF data on a Windows or Linux box? Or is that just too crazy? If you did decide to use Java, why does that require moving the data off of z/OS? Just curious... -- Walt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
Most definitely consider the SAS-alternative WPS from World Programming (WPS). The software runs most SAS Base application language, and it is certified for MXG on both Windows and z/OS. The product is evolving and possibly in 2009, it will be certified for use with CA MICS, as I learned recently at CA World. Visit the website below and you can request a WPC trial install very easily. Scott Barry SBBWorks, Inc. http://teamwpc.co.uk -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:36:21 -0800, Gibney, Dave wrote: > I would think it'd take a long time to redo the several thousand >man-years of work that MXG represents. And Dr. Merrill might get upset >if you were to just translate the SOURCLIB into Java or Whatever. > >Dave Gibney >Information Technology Services >Washington State Univsersity OH! Let me clarify that immediately. I did not mean that I would look at the MXG code and transliterate it into Java. That would be, at least, copyright infringement. And I'm really sensitive to that (being a FOSS bigot). I was meaning to download the SMF data to __something__, likely Intel, then processing it there using a language such as Java. I would most likely try to store the data in some sort of a relational database. But I'd likely need to get a few of those new WD 2Tb disk drives to store it! OK, I think that I'll just mark this idea as "way to crazy to try." -- John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
SAS/MXG on a non-mainframe platform is actually pretty inexpensive. At a prior employer, I did just that along with MXG running on SUSE linux on Intel. For us, it ran faster than on the mainframe. It was a small shop, so there was not an overabundance of SMF data. As for your question of rolling your own via JAVA, sounds like a fulltime job. _ Dave Jousma Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Services david.jou...@53.com 1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 MD RSCB1G p 616.653.8429 f 616.653.8497 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 1:30 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z? We are losing our SAS license. Cost containment. We are looking at getting our main SAS user a Window desktop license so that he can continue to use MXG. Apparently this is fairly popular. But I was curious if anybody has ever used anything else, such as Java, to process SMF data on a Windows or Linux box? Or is that just too crazy? -- This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
I would think it'd take a long time to redo the several thousand man-years of work that MXG represents. And Dr. Merrill might get upset if you were to just translate the SOURCLIB into Java or Whatever. Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State Univsersity -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:30 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z? We are losing our SAS license. Cost containment. We are looking at getting our main SAS user a Window desktop license so that he can continue to use MXG. Apparently this is fairly popular. But I was curious if anybody has ever used anything else, such as Java, to process SMF data on a Windows or Linux box? Or is that just too crazy? -- John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
insanity? process SMF with Java on non-z?
We are losing our SAS license. Cost containment. We are looking at getting our main SAS user a Window desktop license so that he can continue to use MXG. Apparently this is fairly popular. But I was curious if anybody has ever used anything else, such as Java, to process SMF data on a Windows or Linux box? Or is that just too crazy? -- John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
