Re: [IceHorses] not tolting
On Mar 12, 2008, at 8:37 PM, Lorraine wrote: I still don't get how to tolt. They just seem to trot and it isn't smooth. I still love them. Lorraine For most gaited horses, sitting deep in the saddle and putting your weight on the loins (or shifting the saddle back) will get the horse to get under itself and generally will cause it to gait, if it has any tendency at all. Often once a horse in training experiences gait, it gets it and the rider can return to less (or no) chair seat. The first thing to try, though, is to run in hand or pony the horse along side a horse that IS gaiting, on a hard surface or next to a wall so the gaiting horse's footfalls can be heard. Again, the horse will often get it from the sound. Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/ http://www.dslextreme.com/~napha/HighPoint/
Re: [IceHorses] What is Lightness? What is Softness?
Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] kirjoitti: What is lightness in regard to hands on the reins? what are soft hands? Soft hands will continuously move very lightly in time with the horse's gait - I've always heard them called following hands. When someone on the list told me that some Icelander trainer told them that their hands should never move when the horse moves Fjóla has been trained that way. Always with short rein and non-moving hands (actually I was told to hold the saddle to keep my hands in one place...). I still have a long way to go with her, she's a young horse and gets very insecure when I do something she's not used to. So some days I really can't follow her movement with my hands and I've never been able to ride her with long rein (not even walk). Krisse
RE: [IceHorses] not tolting
I still don't get how to tolt. They just seem to trot and it isn't smooth. I still love them. I'm glad to read your last sentence, Lorraine. :) Do you have Lee Ziegler's book? As you may have picked up in our discussions, there are some Icelandic's who simply don't have a lot of gait in them - some have so little gaitedness to be virtually three-gaited. I can think of a couple who happen to be wonderful, virtually ideal Icelandics...except for their gaits. I love them too. I have no idea what gaits your boys are capable of, but I point that out so you can keep it in mind. Now, can you be a little more specific? Do you ever feel anything soft-gaited in the way they move? Even for a few brief moments? We can't change the natural gaitedness of our horses, but sometimes (not always) there's enough there that we can encourage that we can improve the gaits without resorting to harsh methods - maybe by praising the horse, or adjusting our position slightly, or even by getting the horse to relax. Sometimes, with the horses that are strongly geared to trot, you'll feel a hint of gaitedness as they pick up speed at the walk, where you distinctly get a gait feeling, even though he's basically still walking. That's called the flat walk - or it could be a foxwalk. Do you ever feel that? If you can, your horses could have at least a little foxwalk, foxtrot, or something, maybe even a nice little running walk in them that you could encourage. I actually like a foxtrot a lot, one of my favorite gaits. Bear in mind, I can't SEE your horses, so I could be way off. I'm just planting some ideas for you to think about, based on some things I've seen myself. Also, how much do you walk when you ride, and how much of the time are you going faster than a walk? Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Keeping the Back Clean
right now the hair is too long, but once they blow the winter coat and still arent slick and clean yet, I like to use one of those bot blocks, like you clean the bar b que with, and my horses really think it feels good. Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] training with treats is so fun
On 3/12/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 09:08:00PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have come to the conclusion that the Icelandic Horse is smarter than other horses I have owned and they were all types of breeds. Anyone out there think so too? i have to admit that i think so too. but i also think that stjarni thinks so, and refers to his (qh and paint) paddockmates as tweedledumb and tweedledumber :) --vicka I feel like gaited breed horses are smarter than non-gaited. but I also know my smartest horse is my most dangerous and my dumbest horse the sweetest. Of my icelandics Teev is smartest but has a mean streak, can be actually humorously devious, and nasi is smarter than some of my others but he holds his cards very close. So many factors to consider about what is smart. My smartest dog is also my main troublemaker. She came to ask me to let her out last nite and when she looked into my eyes it was eery, so human in intelligence, like one of those morphed photos you see on the internet where they put a humans eyes in a dogs face. She is my husbands dog and he talks to her all the time like she is human, and all the time I hear him saying no treat for you you bad girl you tricked me! haha Janice-- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: Re: [IceHorses] Fjóla's Sensation arrived today
Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] kirjoitti: Good question, I have actually no idea ;-) It's variably called dressage or English trail on dealer's website, a G3 saddle with a G4 seat. It's gorgeous. It looks like a G4 Dressage to me. No it is a G3 (looking from pictures a G4 has different stiching in the wings) but combined with a G4 seat. It is probably dressage, because I think the trail models have rings? Krisse
Re: [IceHorses] not tolting
The first thing to try, though, is to run in hand or pony the horse along side a horse that IS gaiting, on a hard surface or next to a wall so the gaiting horse's footfalls can be heard. Again, the horse will often get it from the sound. Good advice Lynn. I was surprised how much the footfalls of the horses around him influence which gait Hunter can execute. The other thing, however, is I believe there are Icelandics who do not have an intermediate gait. And the other half, Tosca does not trot under saddle. Since we're still in early stages, I'm not going there. We're working on transitions and some beginning leg-yielding. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What is Lightness? What is Softness?
So some days I really can't follow her movement with my hands and I've never been able to ride her with long rein (not even walk). Sometimes you can reward at the end of a ride or training session by allowing her to walk forward on a long rein, head down and out. Once she gets the idea that she doesn't have to have contact all the time, she may learn to like having more rein. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] not tolting
The other thing, however, is I believe there are Icelandics who do not have an intermediate gait. And the other half, Tosca does not trot under saddle. Since we're still in early stages, I'm not going there. And the other extreme - the horses who have very little desirable soft gait, with no trot - the ones who only have varying speeds of pace. Ouch. Give me a trotty horse any day! We're working on transitions and some beginning leg-yielding. Good plan. And I like that you say beginning leg yields. For a while, the Icelander clinicians were all abuzz with talk of shoulder in which is actually something way too advanced for most Icelandics, certainly for the young ones, and ones not accustomed to lateral work. Leg yields are much easier on the horses, so they can begin them (lightly, without excessive repetition) pretty soon. Runa isn't there yet, but she'd done a step or two of turn on the forehand and turn on the haunches. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM
RE: Re: [IceHorses] Fjóla's Sensation arrived today
It is probably dressage, because I think the trail models have rings? The saddles are such that the designs can be customized easily, so rings are optional on all models I believe. I ordered one of the first G3 dressage models because I like a straight flap, but I wanted to use it on the trails, so I ordered d-rings. I guess she got a lot of orders like mine, because I see that she actually calls it the dressage trail now - to distinguish from a proper show saddle. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM
RE: [IceHorses] What is Lightness? What is Softness?
Fjóla has been trained that way. Always with short rein and non-moving hands (actually I was told to hold the saddle to keep my hands in one place...). I still have a long way to go with her, she's a young horse and gets very insecure when I do something she's not used to. Hey, when you're starting a young horse, or restarting one, form often flies out the window for a while, until they get the basics down. I'm sure you've seen pictures of me in less-than-ideal form - more than in ideal form I'm sure! So some days I really can't follow her movement with my hands and I've never been able to ride her with long rein (not even walk). Can you tell us what you're doing with her to make progress? I'm always fascinated with new ideas. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM
Re: [IceHorses] not tolting
Leg yields are much easier on the horses, so they can begin them (lightly, without excessive repetition) pretty soon. What I'm asking right now is that she take one or maybe two steps, while moving forward, away from my leg. I have also asked for one step to right or left of either front feet. Then I move her imediately forward again. I think it is possible to get so caught up in lateral movements with young horses that we can forget to keep them moving happily forward. I also don't ask youngsters to back until I can be sure they move backwards just as nicely as they move forward. I do back her from the ground. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] not tolting
For most gaited horses, sitting deep in the saddle and putting your weight on the loins (or shifting the saddle back) will get the horse to get under itself and generally will cause it to gait, if it has any tendency at all. Maybe I’m taking you too literally, but PLEASE, no weight on the loins – EVER. I won’t argue about slightly altering your weight by shifting your torso SLIGHTLY back, but the horse’s loins are not made to support weight. Getting gait is not worth hurting the horse! It’s not required, so why do it? The first thing to try, though, is to run in hand or pony the horse along side a horse that IS gaiting, on a hard surface or next to a wall so the gaiting horse's footfalls can be heard. Again, I cringe! You may literally mean for a few strides, and I won’t quibble about the harm from that. But, I think most times, training/refining/encouraging gait should be measured in weeks, months, even YEARS, and hard surfaces are very stressful on the hoofs and joints. I never go there, and I discourage others – a FEW people may be able to moderate and know when to say when, but it’s not worth living that close to the edge of good horsemanship to me. And if the horse is one predisposed to bone spavin, the risk may be still more dire! If the horse has natural gait in him, we can find and nourish it in other, less-risky ways. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] training with treats is so fun
I feel like gaited breed horses are smarter than non-gaited. You've obviously never owned a good Arab. :) Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008 1:27 PM
Re: [IceHorses] not tolting
On 3/13/08, Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The first thing to try, though, is to run in hand or pony the horse along side a horse that IS gaiting, on a hard surface or next to a wall so the gaiting horse's footfalls can be heard. Again, the horse will often get it from the sound. i dont think that really works. Reason I say, is my good ponying horse is very very crappy gaited, a hard pacer and stepping pacer. I have 4 horses off him now. Of these absolutely none of them hard pace or stepping pace. When I ponied them however, they DID. They mirrored his footfall and speed exactly. mainly stepping pace. I remember my husband riding Jaspar off ponying his horse Traveller from age 10 months to 3 years, ponied him at least a couple days a week. I would sit in the swing and hear them coming up the long drive, sounded like loud footfall of one horse, not two, and it would be so pretty to watch them in perfect unison, which nasi does too now. But these horses so far I have started on Jaspar and then put under saddle do not gait anything like him. Aned my Stonewall, its actually pretty hilarious. he will mimic anything coming up beside us. The most hilariuous thing you ever saw was him trying to match the footfall of a fino gait, and then the slow western pleasure jog of an appaloosa, but the only time he ever did a full blown true rack was when we were on a long long clay road with a buncha horses and I heard the racking horse coming from way behind, just flying, and stonewall was saddleracking. When he got up just behind us Walls launched into a true rack and stayed with him about a half mile. It was exhilerating and terrifying at once because i knew if he went sideways and I fell it would be the end of me on that hard road! Janice-- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
[IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
Maja is technically due about April 2, and Flekka about April 9, so I'm officially going on foal watch - although there's nothing to see just yet. In 2004, I set up a twin bed in my little tack room in the barn. With the tight quarters, the rusty old refrigerator and all, it had sort of a Unibomber decorating theme. I got asthma from the mold, so that wasn't the best plan, but a bathroom heater kept it acceptably warm. Since I'm just over pneumonia this year, I'm not up to an asthma attack. In 2006, I parked the horsetrailer beside the paddocks. The view was good from the gooseneck, but unfortunately, I dented the step to the dressing room not long before, so I about broke my neck getting out in the dark for each check. Also, the dressing room isn't heated or insulated, so I almost froze to death. Tripping is especially easy when you're frozen stiff as a board. In 2007, we gelded Melnir, so his last babies are due now. I asked Cary Saturday if he wanted to go with me to the outdoor adventure store to look at MAYBE buying a new tent (ours is 30 years old) and some sort of tent heating device that wouldn't set the tent afire. He started looking on the internet. We never made it to the outdoor adventure store. This is what he brought home last night. No mold, no rusty refrigerator, no dangerously dented steps, with heat that actually works. Now, WHY, if this is my last year of breeding, do you think he thinks I need this? (Not that I'm complaining, mind you...) My name is Karen, and I'm a hopeless animal-aholic. To compound my problem, I'm married to the world's worst enabler of my addiction. Just in time for Foal Watch 2008: http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=4jh0nhxz.81f4hfjjx=0y=-ig31q4 Karen Thomas, NC
[IceHorses] Re: First Try at Trace Clipping
I'll try to get pictures tonight! It really is pretty bad. Can we say choppy, a few bald spots and all together bad? He had a nice clip last year from one of the girls at the barn. I thought, what the heck, I'll just stay in the lines! Can't be much harder than coloring and staying in the lines...Okay, so I never colored very well either *smile*. - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Re: [IceHorses] not tolting
On 3/13/08, Lynn Kinsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 12, 2008, at 8:37 PM, Lorraine wrote: I still don't get how to tolt. They just seem to trot and it isn't smooth. I still love them. Lorraine For most gaited horses, sitting deep in the saddle and putting your weight on the loins (or shifting the saddle back) will get the horse to get under itself and generally will cause it to gait, through pain Lynne! Not good advice Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] training with treats is so fun
On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 07:37:09AM -0500, Janice McDonald wrote: I feel like gaited breed horses are smarter than non-gaited. but I also know my smartest horse is my most dangerous and my dumbest horse the sweetest. stjarni likes people, and i think is the most trustworthy horse at our barn in addition to being the smartest. he doesn't have a mean bone in his chunky little body. we have two horses (one mine, one my barn owner's) that we teach beginners on, and stjarni goes right from being a demanding little bugger with me (oh, you shifted your butt, you must mean SIDEPASS!!) to a steady, easy, voice-controlled stop-and-start horse. the other beginner-safe horse becomes, well, a steady, easy horse to stop ;) our dumbest (a former student's who has since left with her mom and mare for a more show barn) i think was the most dangerous, since the mare could feel the mom's insecurity and it made her even sillier -- she did things like get startled when tied once and broke THROUGH A METAL GRATE to break a glass windowpane (and cut up her face, naturally). our current most dangerous imho is tweedledumb who will do things like decide to roll in the seawater at the beach without warning (he's the devious one; he's good on cows). and our current dumbest imho is almost never ridden, and isn't particularly dangerous on the ground, just has to be frequently re-shown the things that the other horses seem to understand (like, at feeding time we go from turnout up into our stalls) and remember. my dog is a rehoming and she is secretly smarter and far more devious than she lets on, and has become the more so as she's come out of her shell of being bottom dog to being just the dog. she tricks me and sneaks things behind my back, but i admit i secretly rejoice to see her personality coming through, even as i clean up the wreckage ;) --vicka
[IceHorses] mic
hey where is mic lately. Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] training with treats is so fun
You've obviously never owned a good Arab. :) Too funny. I ride in the land of the good Arab. They're not only smart, they're another breed of people pleasers. When I flew off Tali and broke my back, our grandson Gabe bought him. His mom refers to them as the boy and his pony. They have the most wonderful relationship. I can always tell when Gabe's high school schedule has kept him from getting to the barn because Tali is obviously looking for him. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
My name is Karen, and I'm a hopeless animal-aholic. To compound my problem, I'm married to the world's worst enabler of my addiction. Life is good, Karen -- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley
Re: [IceHorses] not tolting
On 3/13/08, Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The first thing to try, though, is to run in hand or pony the horse along side a horse that IS gaiting, on a hard surface or next to a wall so the gaiting horse's footfalls can be heard. Again, the horse will often get it from the sound. Someone else wrote the statement above. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
To compound my problem, I'm married to the world's worst enabler of my addiction. Plus - he's a great shopper. Your new trailer looks like a near-twin to the JayCo we have parked here. We use it for everything, including as a sewing room and a Christmas wrapping station. We loan it out to our adult children and their families and about once a year we actually use it ourselves. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] not tolting
I still don't get how to tolt. They just seem to trotLorraine, is the mule riding friend own a gaited mule? I wondered since I see more gaited breed mules advertised out west than here in the east. Since you are trail budies it would be a good one to ride parallel to for gaiting. I found my guys foxtrot when riding alongside the peruvian and the paso around my farm. My icey gelding just gets his sides touched to go forward and he will tolt and canter is easy, but trot is not as easy. Also, my older mare is trotty, and it is wonderful to ride, but my friend who rides a appy pony, hates his trot, I thought shorter legs made for a less bumpy trot but she doesn't think so, she loves riding my trotty mare. But my point is, my mare won't tolt much either, she needs help like Lynne said with setting her up, which I don't do routinely since I like her trot, but with help, in keeping my bottom rolled back, and getting her in an open straight away, she will go into tolt, but as I said, it takes effort on my part to help her get what I want, and it is hard to keep her in it. I also find, if the group of horses I ride with are gaited, and excited about moving out in a fast gait, not canter, she has a quick to find tolt, but it is very fast and extremely animated. So much animated, I wasn't sure I was in tolt until my friend with the peruvian saw her doing it and said how beautiful she looked. Don't give up, keep trying for short spurts to get him into it, and if he gets it, don't push for too much, but build in gradual increments so he can get it. My youngest mare, who just turned 5 lost her easy to find tolt for about 6 months, I think it had something to do with growing, and now tolts at liberty in the pasture, she seems as tolt dominate as my gelding.
[IceHorses] Re: Keeping the Back Clean
Judy: You always bring up such good points!!! I've seen so many saddling issues stem from putting dirty pads on a horse, not removing the excess shed causing friction irritation, having a dirty saddling area/girth area esp during the winter months in the muddy or sandy areas. Since Icelandics have a thicker undercoat than most breeds, debris can become trapped between the layers creating a sand paper effect even if the top layer looks clean to the eye. I bought a Metro Vac a few years back this has really helped a lot as well as being an enormous time saver. The horses love it too!! I still curry with a Grooma use a shedding blade brushes, but always finish with the vacuum. Instead of sweeping the grooming area, I just vacuum. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: What is Lightness? What is Softness?
What is lightness in regard to hands on the reins? what are soft hands? Soft hands will continuously move very lightly in time with the horse's gait - I've always heard them called following hands. When someone on the list told me that some Icelander trainer told them that their hands should never move when the horse moves Always with short rein and non-moving hands (actually I was told to hold the saddle to keep my hands in one place...). I've been told that too. Even had a piece of string attached to the saddle to put my thumbs through. I was so stiff that the horse bolted off in cantypace which I managed to sit to and remain upright. I couldn't stop the horse at all. I read about 'following hands' in several riding books and I guess I found out the why of that. Theres a world of difference between hands being 'still' and still in relation to the horse. It's an awful lot for a beginner like me to work out when people are teaching wrong concepts. It helps to have several resources like books and videos. In the end the horse is the best teacher. Sue UK
[IceHorses] SE
This guy says horses that are not vaccinated do not get SE. Does anyone have a non-vaccinated horse with SE? Maybe Malin? He says there is no SE in iceland because they dont have vaccinations there. I wonder if they have gnats. Here is the url: http://www.sidgustafson.com/disc.htm -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
[IceHorses] Hello from GA!
It is so nice here compared to Michigan right now. I am on a business trip...design review yawn. I wish I could bring my horses and ride...we won't have this weather for a couple of months yet. What are the best months to ride in the southeast U.S? -Kristen from MI (enjoying the warm weather until tomorrow!)
Re: [IceHorses] not tolting
On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 09:06:46AM -0500, Janice McDonald wrote: On 3/13/08, Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The first thing to try, though, is to run in hand or pony the horse along side a horse that IS gaiting, on a hard surface or next to a wall so the gaiting horse's footfalls can be heard. Again, the horse will often get it from the sound. i dont think that really works. i think it might -- reason i say is that stjarni (who trots beautifully at liberty and is, um, strongly gaited under saddle and has to be coaxed and cozened into trot, though it's still a great trot then) will often spontaneously trot on the trail when surrounded by trotting horses. not that we're on hard surfaces, but he can certainly *hear* their footfalls (and presumably see them) and seems to be encouraged to go as they do. i think it's a herd-intinct thing. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] not tolting
On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 09:29:56AM -0500, Janice McDonald wrote: For most gaited horses, sitting deep in the saddle and putting your weight on the loins (or shifting the saddle back) will get the horse to get under itself and generally will cause it to gait, through pain Lynne! Not good advice the version of this that i've gotten from my instructors has been a little different -- tuck your tailbone under you, sit up VERY TALL and open your chest. to ask for trot, rotate your pelvis forward, loosen (or drop entirely) the reins and let your hands rest on the withers or neck, or even come entirely into half-seat. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] training with treats is so fun
On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 07:08:01AM -0800, Nancy Sturm wrote: You've obviously never owned a good Arab. :) Too funny. I ride in the land of the good Arab. They're not only smart, they're another breed of people pleasers. When I flew off Tali and broke my back, our grandson Gabe bought him. His mom refers to them as the boy and his pony. They have the most wonderful relationship. I can always tell when Gabe's high school schedule has kept him from getting to the barn because Tali is obviously looking for him. *grin* i used to lease a good arab. she was plenty smart, but not, umm, very *sensible*, if you see the difference... --vicka
[IceHorses] was training with treats - a tribute to good Arabs
You've obviously never owned a good Arab. :) Too funny. I ride in the land of the good Arab. They're not only smart, they're another breed of people pleasers. I've only owned the one, my daughter's Thunder, and pre-Sina, he was the smartest horse I'd ever met. When we were totally naive and stupid, he seemed a little flakey and high strung. But, once we found Shirley to save us all from our ineptitude, Thunder was a changed horse. He was all the good things you hear about Arabs: forward, energetic, easy to condition and hold condition, smart, kind and gentle - and three tremendous gaits...and if his rider was confident, he'd go out and conquer the world. If the rider wasn't...well, all bets were off. Once my daughter, not quite nine when we ignorantly bought him for her, figured that out, her confidence soared. I'm not a Arab person I guess, but I sure see why some people are. He quickly changed from being a lethal weapon to a suitable kid's pony with some love, guidance and training ...and TRUST. He really needed to be trusted. God, Thunder was so lucky we found Shirley when we did. So was Emily...and well, so were we all. Thunder won't be with us a lot longer - weeks? Months? I don't know. He's not ready yet, but he's on the decline, even though he's apparently not in any kind of pain. The vet was out again Tuesday. The blood tests are ok, nothing obviously wrong with his teeth (just old and going away), his vision is fine, and he's just as alert and aware as ever. (He's been totally deaf for about four years now.) He's been wormed and rewormed, and the fecals are negative. But, he's starting dragging his toes over the past year, and I'm afraid someone is going to report us to the humane society. We're feeding him large quantities of good senior feed, and his appetite is good, but he's a walking skeleton. I think he's simply worn out - he really started going down when he lost his best buddy, Mac, last fall. This is tough, since we just can't find anything else to do for him. He's the only one we ever had, and I doubt we'll ever have another Arab, but I thank my lucky stars that he were blessed to own this magnificent, talented animal for these 20 years. He's made one little girl very happy for a long time...and her mom and dad too. Sometimes on these lists, people have accused me of not knowing what an energetic/forward/willing horse is, or not having a clue what make for a good endurance prospect, a good dressage horse. Oh, I think I have a clue. For 20 years, we've owned a good Arab. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
Life is good, Karen You're darned straight it is. :) BTW, you probably can't tell it from the pics, but the new-to-us Foalmobile is 12 years old, but was impeccably cared for, and is in tremendous shape, but the price reflects the age. Nancy said that Cary is a good shopper - she got that one right too. He found a great value in this one. I'm blessed. Karen Thomas, NC
[IceHorses] re:re: not tolting
just wanted to add, when I said like Lynne said, rolling back on the back of your bottom to get the gait started, not saying to stay in the chair seat, just go to it long enough to find out if the horse gets the change to move to another gait, if not, don't worry about it. Just keep riding your horse. Sometimes, more fitness can get gaits to happen. Wait and see!
[IceHorses] OT-NZ dolphin rescues beached whales
Amazing. NZ dolphin rescues beached whales http://tinyurl.com/35zkw9 Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] icelandic trainers
oh, and this thread reminds me -- would video of ebba teaching me (once the weather doesn't suck) count as icelandic trainer work (cuz she's icelandic and my instructor) or not (because she's not a big name and does not give clinics or show)? --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Re: First Try at Trace Clipping
On 3/13/08, Judy Fiedler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll try to get pictures tonight! It really is pretty bad. Can we say choppy, a few bald spots and all together bad? He had a nice clip last year from one of the girls at the barn. I thought, what the heck, I'll just stay in the lines! Can't be much harder than coloring and staying in the lines...Okay, so I never colored very well either *smile*. I cant wait :) Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
[IceHorses] Re: What is Lightness? What is Softness?
Thanks Judy - this is a great topic. I can't define softness or lightness for myself without first defining contact. A lack of contact can be neither soft nor light - although I will often ride on a long rein deliberately. I like to feel an elastic butterfly connection to my horse - although I have been criticized for sometimes having insufficient contact. - So I guess elasticity has to be a component here. Sometimes if my horse needs support I will increase the contact - the pressure on the reins in the rein/body/leg circle - but this requires adjusting the rest so the horse knows stop right away or shorten your frame etc. This can still be soft in my mind, but is maybe no longer as light. But really, I think these are just adjectives to describe a contact rather than definitions - these must mean different things to all of us - especially considering our different riding styles. Feel free to criticize - this is only an idea and I welcome feedback. Laura.
Re: [IceHorses] not tolting
On Mar 13, 2008, at 6:52 AM, Karen Thomas wrote: For most gaited horses, sitting deep in the saddle and putting your weight on the loins (or shifting the saddle back) will get the horse to get under itself and generally will cause it to gait, if it has any tendency at all. Maybe I’m taking you too literally, but PLEASE, no weight on the loins – EVER. I won’t argue about slightly altering your weight by shifting your torso SLIGHTLY back, but the horse’s loins are not made to support weight. Getting gait is not worth hurting the horse! It’s not required, so why do it? I didn't say it was a good practice, but it is done, nonetheless. Certainly this list has published enough pictures of riders water-skiing in the saddle, the TWH's have their turtle man trainer posture in the show ring, and the Peruvians specifically allow the judge to ride any horse he wishes in breeding or gait classes so he can determine if the gait comes from the rider or the horse (I've seen judges ask a rider in the line up to get off and reposition the saddle more forward, too) The first thing to try, though, is to run in hand or pony the horse along side a horse that IS gaiting, on a hard surface or next to a wall so the gaiting horse's footfalls can be heard. Again, I cringe! You may literally mean for a few strides, and I won’t quibble about the harm from that. But, I think most times, training/refining/encouraging gait should be measured in weeks, months, even YEARS, and hard surfaces are very stressful on the hoofs and joints. Perhaps North Carolina dirt is fluffier than our adobe clay, which the horses live on 24/7, ride on routinely, and which it takes an industrial grade auger to dig a fence hole in. g My daughter's junior class show gelding had only been trained in fluffy sand, the drag of which squared up his pasitrote to an acceptable paso llano. We test rode him at the seller's. No sand at my place and he immediately went to pasitrote, so Liz and I ran in hand my very well gaited (naturally locked in -- couldn't break the gait if you tried) mare and Dondiego up my 200 yd dirt drive way. He got it right away (thank goodness -- neither of us were up for jogging all day). Liz rode him to several performance championships and three years of junior show classes. But of course it takes months of long, slow WALKING with a rider to get a horse's muscles ready to start collecting and asking for speed (Dondiego was 8 when I bought him). Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/ http://www.dslextreme.com/~napha/HighPoint/ IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Hello from GA!
What are the best months to ride in the southeast U.S? Just about any time except July and August. There are a few decent days even then, especially if you can ride in the shade in early mornings or late evenings. We'll have some days in the winter when it's too cold/muddy/windy, but basically we can ride year round, except for given days. In the heat of the summer, the highest elevations of the northern NC mountains are downright New England-ish. Where in Ga are you? We're near Charlotte, about 4-4.5 hours from Atlanta, and our weather is VERY similar. Coastal Savannah is a little milder than us, and it's also about 4 hours away. Janice's weather would be close to south GA, I think. Today is perfect - on the way to 75. This is a bit unusual for this time of the year, but certainly not unheard of. Just wait until the foals come though - we'll be freezing again! :) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Re: What is Lightness? What is Softness?
I read about 'following hands' in several riding books and I guess I found out the why of that. Theres a world of difference between hands being 'still' and still in relation to the horse. I've also always heard the term quiet hands. That doesn't mean dead still as you point out, but certainly not annoyingly all over the place either. Hands can - and should - be both quiet and following. Moderation is just SOOO underrated in some circles. ;) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] not tolting
Again, the horse will often get it from the sound. i dont think that really works. I'm pretty sure it won't work either, Janice...UNLESS, and this is big...the horse already has that particular gait in his easy-to-use bag of tricks. Then it MIGHT, but only if the horse can do that gait at the same speed that's the sweet spot for the other horse. If the gait isn't easy and natural to the horse, then forget it. There's no magic that will inspire a horse to gait in a way that wasn't destined to do. Thunder and Mac were best buds for about 19 years, in the pasture and on the trails. Thunder maintained his pure, two-beat floating trot, while Mac tended to step-pace everywhere he went. Holly often was with them - trotting, foxtrotting or run-walking. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] not tolting
Someone else wrote the statement above. Ha! I've been mis-snipped in the past too - annoying, isn't it?!!! Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] was training with treats - a tribute to good Arabs
i think all in all, as a majority, most arabs and paso finos are very very high strung. smart, yes, but squirrely. Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] re:re: not tolting
just wanted to add, when I said like Lynne said, rolling back on the back of your bottom to get the gait started, not saying to stay in the chair seat, just go to it long enough to find out if the horse gets the change to move to another gait, if not, don't worry about it. Just keep riding your horse. Sometimes, more fitness can get gaits to happen. Wait and see! John mentioned that he thinks the term strongly gaited is vague and I agree. However, if it requires lots of moving around in the saddle, special fitness, or odd placement of the saddles to get the horse to gait, then there's your clue that the horse isn't. It's not an insult for a horse to be three-gaited, marginally gaited, not strongly gaited - whatever you choose to call it. I've adored plenty of them, as well as some nicely gaited ones. But to me, if I have to rub my tummy while patting my head at the same time, to get the horse to gait, it's just not worth it. Trotting can be pretty cool too. Why not just enjoy what the horse does best? Think about what the horse is doing for us, carrying our substantial butts around. Give him/her a break and enjoy the best ride he/she can give you. If that's not up to your standards, then buy a horse that easily and comfortably does what you want and find someone who will love your horse for the great talents HE/SHE has. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
bless your heart karen you poor thang but I guess you have to sleep somewhere. Could you replace some fawcetts with 18k ones? Ha! Hey, this is nice by MY standards, but then, four years ago I was in the unibomber suite! I've stepped up from that, but I'm a LONG way from gold (Farrah) Fawcetts. (faucets?) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] training with treats is so fun
*grin* i used to lease a good arab. she was plenty smart, but not, umm, very *sensible*, if you see the difference... My experience is that many/most Arabs reflect the personalities of their riders/handlers, probably more than any other breed as a whole. My daughter would be the first to tell you that Thunder was always the barometer of her moods. He taught her a lot about being relaxed, confident and happy. Icelandic's however, tend to be less honest with us, often swallowing their feelings and keeping a stiff upper lip in spite of what happens to them. (Tivar and Sina are two noteworthy exceptions, bless their honest and direct souls.) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] training with treats is so fun
On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 01:43:41PM -0400, Karen Thomas wrote: *grin* i used to lease a good arab. she was plenty smart, but not, umm, very *sensible*, if you see the difference... My experience is that many/most Arabs reflect the personalities of their riders/handlers, probably more than any other breed as a whole. the arab's first owner was definitely afraid of her -- i'm told she was rarely ridden before i came along and (in-barn) leased her. she was also used as a lesson horse at the time, though i don't think that was a particularly good move for her. but the exercise definitely helped. i had a three-day-a-week lease, and when she was sold (and i continued my lease for several months) her new owner was a horse-crazy ten-year-old who rode every day. i don't think the horse became any more sensible -- any coke bottle or corner of the ring could suddenly turn on her, and if you sneezed while mounted she'd bolt -- but with more exercise and more love she definitely became a lot *happier*, and that was great. i really loved that mare, but i knew she wasn't going to be the one for me, which is why i didn't buy her when owner #1 put her up for sale. i sneeze once in awhile and i hate it to be a big deal to the horse. and she HATED trail riding, which i rather wanted to learn to do. (i admit i took this word on reputation, but the trails were a few blocks down the road, and i wouldn't consider her traffic-safe.) last i heard (xmas) she and her new owner were still very happy together, and the young girl had learned to negotiate princess's gazelle-like springy canter :) so it's all good. but i still think stjarni's more my type. Icelandic's however, tend to be less honest with us, often swallowing their feelings and keeping a stiff upper lip in spite of what happens to them. *grin* stjarni is extremely expressive, although extremely accomodating. our last ride out involved a lot of water crossings, and the tossing of the head and the bouncing of the rock-star mane! but i think he'd take all of maybe one step sideways or backwards, and if i just sat quietly and said come on, love, walk on, he'd drop his head after a minute and and walk carefully through. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] was training with treats - a tribute to good Arabs
i think all in all, as a majority, most arabs and paso finos are very very high strung. smart, yes, but squirrely. Not since his first year here would I consider Thunder either high strung or squirrely. He's actually pretty mellow and laid back - but with energy to go. Seriously, you should hang out with some good ones. Thunder isn't the only one either - we purposely looked at him because the little Arab mare Emily was taking lessons on at the time was such a sweet thing. When we first brought Thunder here, we thought we'd screwed up, but within a couple of months of meeting Shirley, he was as nice as Emily's little lesson horse had been. A girl Emily used to do drill team with also had a very sweet and mellow little Arab, not even 14H. I don't know many Paso Finos, so I can't say. I do know one that is really sweet and mellow. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] icelandic trainers
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:48:47AM -0500, Judy Ryder wrote: Thanks for your input and hope you can provide video for us to see some of their current work. this letter clarifies for me considerably what you will and not accept as evidence (formally speaking, your epistemology). thanks for that; it is good to know. if we do end up going back to gudmar, i will ask permission, blow a few hundred bucks, and gudmar willing collect some data you will accept. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] SE
I wonder if they have gnats. Here is the url: No, Janice, they don't which is part of the problem with his theory. It also would be hard to get a good statistical base to work with because I don't think there are that many people outside of Iceland that don't vaccinate their horses - That being said, I do believe there is something to what he is saying. I think we over vaccinate out horses and do have some immunity problems because of it. Of the equine vets that I know, all but one vaccinate way less than most people. They do rabies every 3 years instead of every year, they don't do Flu/Rhino unless they are going to be in environment that puts the horse at risk, etc. Does that mean I'll stop vaccinating my horses - No, but I have cut back on the number of vaccines I give them. -- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley
Re: [IceHorses] OT-NZ dolphin rescues beached whales
On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Raven [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amazing. NZ dolphin rescues beached whales http://tinyurl.com/35zkw9 Neat story, Raven Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley
Re: [IceHorses] not tolting
the version of this that i've gotten from my instructors has been a little different -- tuck your tailbone under you, sit up VERY TALL and open your chest. to ask for trot, rotate your pelvis forward, loosen (or drop entirely) the reins and let your hands rest on the withers or neck, or even come entirely into half-seat. I think that's a good description, Vicka. It helps you make it clear what you want but you aren't going to extremes to get what you want. Doppa responds to this method very well yet is relaxed. -- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley
Re: [IceHorses] was training with treats - a tribute to good Arabs
I'm not a Arab person I guess, but I sure see why some people are. Karen, what you have to understand is that if you were an Arab person you would have liked Thunder the way he was when he first came to you. I had a wonderful, smart, sensible, beautiful Arab gelding and I was floored whne I would get him around Arab people and they would say he was too calm and sesible for their taste and would never make a good show horse - My gain, their loss Thunder won't be with us a lot longer - weeks? Months? I don't know. He's not ready yet, but he's on the decline, even though he's apparently not in any kind of pain. Sorry, Karen, that is tough. You just want to hold on to them and say, please don't leave me but each has his day. I'm sure Thunder's passing will be as peaceful as Mac's. -- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley
[IceHorses] M-T-G
If you are a user of Shapley's M-T-G like I am, you will find this link interesting. It is written for human usage but definitely worth looking into. Janice has recommended this in the past but this link is more specific about what to and not to look for. I find the M-T-G relieves Doppa's itchies from excema better than anything else. Of course, it stinks. http://www.longhaircareforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-59015.html -- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley
Re: [IceHorses] was training with treats - a tribute to good Arabs
I know some sweet pasos and some sweet arabs, but overall, generally, when trail riding, oh my gosh, i just move to the side when they blow through :) I know this one arab, oh my gosh, she is so prescious. She got a crush on jaspar one time and would practically knock other horses out of the way and come jigging sideways to reach and touch her nose to jaspar's cheek. over and over. It was so cute! I just love her. But one time she got hurt and was limping but turned out ok, because she went flying to jump a stream, the rider said no, she sploosh fell in and instead of listening started thrashing and lunged out, (she coulda turned right and simply walked out) and hurt something so she limped. I know thats an isolated incident and there are always lots and lots of mitigating factors. but honestly I am always a little puzzled when people say they arent hot cause to me its just a fact. Even tho, like you say, I know one that is absolutely dead calm... But if you judge an animals intelligence by playfulness, which I have heard is one thing behaviorlists look at, then I would have to say the smartest horse I ever saw was arabian because she would play fetch with herself and her jolly ball, would throw it in the air, chase it, kick it, playing soccer with it. amazing. But the lady who owned her broke some bones now and then riding her. is there any breed everyone would agree is high strung? How about saddlebreds? To me they are firebreathing hyped. now we will hear from all those owning deadhead saddlebreds :) Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] training with treats is so fun
On 3/13/08, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Tivar and Sina are two noteworthy exceptions, bless their honest and direct souls.) Karen Thomas, NC oh man, Tivar is beginning to scare me with his look in the eye communications! I aint kiddin at all. He will give me the hardest mean look when he is aggravated. A forthright stare when he is trying to tell me something, a sheepish look when he has been petulant, and often, a look of pure desperation when he is trying to say pay ATTENTION this is IMPORTANT like he gets very frustrated that he cant speak. He has started doing this whole bizarre violent nasty behavior when I bring in the herd from turnout. He barrels in trying to get to the gate first, knowing the set up is such that it is just gonna cause problems. Then when the others get there he whirls and thunders around chasing everybody, acting like a nut. It took forever but I finally figured it out one day when I got everyone in, the gates closed, and was about to walk away when he licked and chewed and looked me directly in the eye like its been really hard but I got them all in and sorted out for you so you could hurry and feed us. Theres nothing anyone can say would make me believe he wasnt saying that. it was as if he said it aloud. Then i started paying attention, and see he has this whole elaborate herding method of getting everyone in, altho on the surface it looks like he is picking fights. Ironically the only ones who wont do what he says are nasi and the donkey. and oh, he gets so mad at them! janice-- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] SE
my vet has me giving teev and nasi their shots one at a time instead of a three in one or whatever like that. But he said there is no alternative where I live. Its not like we COULD have west nile where I live, its like we HAVE west nile, many cases, every year, all around me. Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
haha faucetts. That thing sure is in good shape! yes Cary is a good shopper! You need a little satlellite dish for the roof tho so you can watch tv while you foal watch. I think you should do like my friend sylvia and have a huge foal watch party and grill out under your cool new awning there! Janice-- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
I think you should do like my friend sylvia and have a huge foal watch party and grill out under your cool new awning there! When we got the trailer with an awning, I wanted some of those little stings of decorative lights you see in campgrounds - you know chili peppers or stars or something. Bruce would never agree. Karen - you really need some. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] M-T-G
very very good Laree! Wow, so specific, giving you exact names etc. The ethnic har product section at walmart is good, and also cheaper even, is dollar general. I often think about how my dad used to cure any sort of skin problem in his hunting dogs by dipping them in the drum where he kept his outboard motor and it was oil and water and the dogs would come out all skanky and black and smelly and then when the goop wore off they would be all healthy and shiney again. Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
I think you should do like my friend sylvia and have a huge foal watch party and grill out under your cool new awning there! Ok. When will you be here? Who else's coming? :) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] was training with treats - a tribute to good Arabs
is there any breed everyone would agree is high strung? How about saddlebreds? To me they are firebreathing hyped. Define high strung. I'm serious. Karen Thomas, NC
[IceHorses] feldman i think
I this is Walter Feldman, the one the USIHC is bringing in to hold a seminar for trainers. Be sure and read the comments! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEXbSiZRm0Ufeature=related Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
oh my lord in heavens YES girlfriend KAREN you NEED some lights! Janice-- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
I FOUND SOME LIGHTS Wanda they have chili peppers too!! and flamingos, i MUST have some flamingos for my tent. http://www.partylights.com/Novelty/Critters/Corral-of-Horses Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
[IceHorses] Lee Memorial Trophy
http://elizabethgraves.blogspot.com/2008/03/it-has-been-2-years-this-month-of-march.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
I FOUND SOME LIGHTS Wanda they have chili peppers too!! and flamingos, i MUST have some flamingos for my tent. Those are the ones. Karen needs the purple chil peppers I think. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
On 3/13/08, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you should do like my friend sylvia and have a huge foal watch party and grill out under your cool new awning there! Ok. When will you be here? Who else's coming? :) Karen Thomas, NC Ann and bragi, Laree and doppa and Cherie and Roka, me, teev and Nasi and Stonewall (hey you need something to liven things up), wanda and Judy, invite Mic to come from wales so we can make fun of the way her and wanda talk and wear shorts in winter, Judy and Charm. We could film our virtual horse show while we are there so there would be witnesses and no cheating when i beat everyone. Then we could place bets on the foals and the winner gets the camper. Janice-- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] was training with treats - a tribute to good Arabs
here is a high strung horse video someone posted to gaitedhorse recently. When I saw it I thought how beautiful, just drop dead beautiful. But I would only ride him if I was wanting to kill myself and have my family still collect the insurance as an accident :) http://youtube.com/watch?v=0Ova7HY-Uuw janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] was training with treats - a tribute to good Arabs
On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: here is a high strung horse video Janice - what makes you think he's high strung. He may be but there is nothing in that video that I haven't seen in my own pasture(not counting the awful man-made hish action and tail set) and my horses aren't high strung.- - Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley
Re: [IceHorses] Stacey Westfall on The ELLEN Show
Stacey is a guest on the Ellen DeGeneres show this Friday, March 14th. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] M-T-G
On 3/13/08, Laree Shulman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 3:34 PM, Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: very very good Laree! Wow, so specific, giving you exact names etc. The thing I'm not getting here is that the product they recommend at Wal-Mart ie $3.99 for 2.6 oz and the M-T-G is 12.99 for a 32 oz bottle. I thought this was about alternatives that were cheaper - what am I missing? y. the one i get is a big tub in the ethnic section. about two bucks for 32 oz. but you have to put up with the smell which is even worse than MTG Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
[IceHorses] bad trail gaits
here is a video of gait. I have actually ridden on trail rides with horses doing this for over four hours. I swear I am not exaggerating. in 90 degree heat. and this is the gait I was talking about when I said it was rude to come onto a metal bridge with a horse doing this gait wearing shoes. Tivar is rock solid but he nearly did one of those performing horse tricks where you dive off a tower into a swimming pool when this happened. http://video.aol.com/video-detail/paso-largo-farmand39s-paso-fino-stallion-pastor-del-juncal/171553706 janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
[IceHorses] Re: bad trail gaits
heres the second worse trail riding gait. This is the type who comes up beside you and then gripes and whines for the next two hours about why dont you slow down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9iQX-eYfRofeature=related janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
[IceHorses] Re: bad trail gaits
and this one, it acts like a lot of the horses I trail ride with, but then I started thinking about this poor kid actually being in a horse show and how much the horse is acting like Stonewall and i started laughing so hard I almost cried! Why oh WHY would a horse DO this i guess this is what I mean by high strung?? Or is it he is just a bad kid? or is it he needs horsey downers? Or is it he needs whopped upside the head?? And don't tell me ground train. He does tricks forgodssakes and acts like an angel. he even acts like an angel on quiet rides at places he knows with people he knows, but off from home, excited, he turns into the horse in this video!! bless her heart tho, this kid is hangin tough. Only thing walls doesnt do tho is buck. thank the good lord for small favors for that at least!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfHQW9_qDEk Janice
Re: [IceHorses] bad trail gaits
Fino gait. I rode that gait oncewill never ride it again. So much energy for such little forward movement. Drives me crazy when I ride with fino horses. HAHA!! I can hear them saying we're coming...we're coming ;p]BTW...a few of my friends love using this gait on the trailtheir poor horses end up eating Huginn's tolt dust. Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] bad trail gaits
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/paso-largo-farmand39s-paso-fino-stallion-pastor-del-juncal/171553706 I simply do not understand the fino gait. What a waste of energy. They don't make any more forward progress than a show type western pleasure horse, but look at the difference in energy expended. Duh. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bad trail gaits
Why oh WHY would a horse DO this i guess this is what I mean by high strung?? Or is it he is just a bad kid? or is it he needs horsey downers? Or is it he needs whopped upside the head?? I am not at all convinced that's a high strung horse. Maybe he needs a new saddle, or a new bit, or a chiropractor, or Ulcergard, or accupuncture? Or just some down-time from a stupid rider who thinks it's cute that the horse is so upset? When Tivar came here, he showed some signs of doing that sort of thing. I am proud to say that I honestly don't know if he would have kept it up that long though. Shirley had enough brains to get off him, and I had enough concern to get him checked by the vet. We didn't get back to riding him until he had treatment. When she started back riding, he was a mellow horse - worried and expecting the worst at first, but MUCH better behaved. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
Those are the ones. Karen needs the purple chil peppers I think. I had NO idea that there were so many kinds of awning lights to pick from. I'd seen the chili-pepper ones, but Betty Boop, MM's, parrots, pigs, you name it. Wow. I'm so overwhelmed with my choices that I might just have to pass on all of them. :) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] bad trail gaits
On Mar 13, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Karen Thomas wrote: http://video.aol.com/video-detail/paso-largo-farmand39s-paso-fino- stallion-pastor-del-juncal/171553706 I simply do not understand the fino gait. What a waste of energy. They don't make any more forward progress than a show type western pleasure horse, but look at the difference in energy expended. Duh. Tongue in check, the Peruvians say it is because Puerto Rico is such a small island -- the horses didn't have to take big steps to get everywhere. Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/ http://www.dslextreme.com/~napha/HighPoint/
Re: [IceHorses] bad trail gaits
On Mar 13, 2008, at 2:28 PM, Janice McDonald wrote: here is a video of gait. I have actually ridden on trail rides with horses doing this for over four hours. I swear I am not exaggerating. in 90 degree heat. and this is the gait I was talking about when I said it was rude to come onto a metal bridge with a horse doing this gait wearing shoes. Tivar is rock solid but he nearly did one of those performing horse tricks where you dive off a tower into a swimming pool when this happened. http://video.aol.com/video-detail/paso-largo-farmand39s-paso-fino- stallion-pastor-del-juncal/171553706 Despite them calling themselves Paso Largo Farm that stallion is doing a classical fino, or fino-fino gait (and not that well IMO -- there should be more hock action and the timing should be absolutely isochronal 4-beat). The fino-fino is generally a show ring gait, but it's kind of built into the horse genetically -- can't get a fino-fino horse to have the reach and extension that a largo horse has, which is still less reach and extension than the average Peruvian has. Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/ http://www.dslextreme.com/~napha/HighPoint/
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
My name is Karen, and I'm a hopeless animal-aholic. To compound my problem, I'm married to the world's worst enabler of my addiction. Karen Thomas, NC I thought John, my husband, was the worst -- up until I saw that first picture. Yours wins, no contest. LOL Might as well go out in style! It's hard to believe that it has been 2 years since we were on foal watch together -- hope these guys are like Dancer and pop out the first night and so fast they are on their feet an hour after you last checked. Kat
Re: [IceHorses] bad trail gaits
On 13/03/2008, Lynn Kinsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Despite them calling themselves Paso Largo Farm that stallion is doing a classical fino, or fino-fino gait (and not that well IMO -- there should be more hock action and the timing should be absolutely isochronal 4-beat). Could his front feet have been weighted? His front feet looked awfully large, I couldn't determine what was on them If they were weighted, that would throw the timing off. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 5:14 PM, Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ] you know chili peppers or stars or something. I don't recall where online I saw them, but I saw a string of horses--they were too cute! V
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To compound my problem, I'm married to the world's worst enabler of my addiction. You are soo lucky!! V
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
How about these? http://www.partylights.com/Novelty/Leisure/Pillsbury-Doughboy Who knew...? I learn SO much on this list. :) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Foal Watch 2008
It's hard to believe that it has been 2 years since we were on foal watch together -- hope these guys are like Dancer and pop out the first night and so fast they are on their feet an hour after you last checked. Time flies. That thought just hit Cary. He's sure now that I have decent sleeping accomodations that both of the mares will deliver during daylight hours... How is Dancer doing? Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] bad trail gaits
Tongue in check, the Peruvians say it is because Puerto Rico is such a small island -- the horses didn't have to take big steps to get everywhere. That's the first plausible explanation I've heard. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] bad trail gaits
On Mar 13, 2008, at 5:15 PM, Wanda Lauscher wrote: On 13/03/2008, Lynn Kinsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Despite them calling themselves Paso Largo Farm that stallion is doing a classical fino, or fino-fino gait (and not that well IMO -- there should be more hock action and the timing should be absolutely isochronal 4-beat). Could his front feet have been weighted? His front feet looked awfully large, I couldn't determine what was on them If they were weighted, that would throw the timing off. The feet look normal and what seems out of time is the rear feet. Paso Finos are allowed to show in keg shoes weighing no more than ten ounces: If a horse is shown unshod, hooves will be neatly trimmed to a short natural length, not to exceed four (4) inches. If a horse is shown shod, the length of the hooves is not to exceed four and one half (4 1/2) inches, including shoes. All four (4) feet must be shod with flat shoes that do not affect the way a horse travels or how a foot breaks over. All four (4) feet must have the same type of shoe of the same material, weight, and thickness although front and back hooves may be shod in different sizes. Each shoe cannot exceed ten (10) ounces. Weighted shoes and pads are prohibited. However, toe and/or side clips drawn from the same shoe (an integral part of an otherwise flat saddle plate shoe which does not exceed ten (10) ounces in weight) that in no way affects how a horse travels or breaks over are allowed. The Fino-fino stallion that set my eye was Bochica Tres (http://www.pasobravo.com/bochist.htm) that I saw in many exhibitions and at Minter's ranch -- hard act to follow g. Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/
Re: [IceHorses] was training with treats - a tribute to good Arabs
is there any breed everyone would agree is high strung? How about saddlebreds? To me they are firebreathing hyped. Well, first of all, the show saddlebreds are usually kept in tiny dark stalls, so they will appear exactly like you say when they see the light of day in the show ring... Have you ever stopped to consider the self-fulfilling-prophecy angle behind what you're seeing...? As in maybe some of the high strung breeds really aren't so much high strung...but when they are shown to appear that way, they attract a certain kind of person, who in turns buys them and expects them to behave that way...and the cycle is in place. Even to the point that less hyped people tend to pass on them...? I mean, what kind of person wants a prancey, hyped horse badly enough that they will light-deprive them to get that effect? (Not to mention depriving them of companionship and exercise...) I had the crazy-Arab conversation recently with my vet, when he was checking Thunder. I said something about him being just as crazy as always...and obviously he wasn't being crazy at all. He was just as cool as a cucumber - alert and interested but mellow. My vet said that he really has never seen too much of the crazy side of any of the Arabs in his practice - he said that most of the ones that he deals with seem to be nice, mannerly trail horses. But, I don't think he has any Arab show barns in his practice. Coincidence? I don't know. I sure wouldn't have bought an Arab if I'd seen the show stuff before we met Thunder. That crazy stuff would have turned me off. This angle REALLY worries me because I've had people come here to visit my Icelandics tell me that, after seeing some demo at an Equine Affaire or such, they went away with the idea that Icelandics were firebreathing. Literally, at least one woman used that very word, the same one you used for Saddlebreds. If there's ever been a breed that I would NOT consider high strung, it would be Icelandic's, but even Icelandic's can appear that way with some effort. Of all my Icelandic's, the most mellow, low-key, even lazy one would be my sweet Loftur. When I was considering taking him as a rehab, the traditionalists on the list at the time made dire predictions that he was just goey, too willing for his then-owner, blah, blah. Too much horse... Loftur wasn't goey, or willing, and he only bolted because he was in pain. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] bad trail gaits
On 13/03/2008, Lynn Kinsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they were weighted, that would throw the timing off. The feet look normal and what seems out of time is the rear feet. Paso Finos are allowed to show in keg shoes weighing no more than ten ounces: No, in most of the pictures they look normal, except for the section where he's running up and down the fence. The front feet look different than in other photos. It's the front feet that look out of time to me... Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] bad trail gaits
No, in most of the pictures they look normal, except for the section where he's running up and down the fence. The front feet look different than in other photos. Wait, I've lost track. Which one are we talking about - the palomino Saddlebred, the Paso Fino, or the Peruvian in the Feldman video? Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bad trail gaits
Only thing walls doesnt do tho is buck. thank the good lord for small favors for that at least!! Okay Janice, I'll have Bruce film Hunter at the start of the next endurance ride (not RACE) we do. And I don't really consider him high strung, just sort of highly reactive. This is not something I am proud of, but we usually start each ride sideways - embarrassing... hmmm mmaybe if you can't remember how to spell it, you're not. His previous owner described him as having happy feet. At first I had no intention of even getting on him. Nancy
[IceHorses] High Strung Horses
Ever since I read those words this morning I have tried to think of a group of consistantly high strung horses. I see a lot of really quiet nice Arabs. I used to buy off track Thoroughbreds and loved them and rode them and hauled them everywhere - very nce horses. The most wired horses I know are National Showhorses (Arab/Saddlebred blend) and they were all raised by the same rather loud man, which I blame for their higly nervous edgy temperment. We brought one from Nevada for grandson Gabriel. She chewed through her lead rope the first half hour she was on the truck. She had never been in a pasture or had to drink from a trough, bucket or tub. We passed her on to a girl who uses her pretty successfully for high school equestrian team after several years of accidents and lessons. To this day she cannot be ridden on trail. Another mare from the same breeder weaves even in pasture, stops eating at the drop or a hat and cribs. Two others are similar. They are the weirdest wild-eyed horses I have ever seen, but they all had the same rough handling. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] bad trail gaits
On Mar 13, 2008, at 5:59 PM, Karen Thomas wrote: No, in most of the pictures they look normal, except for the section where he's running up and down the fence. The front feet look different than in other photos. Wait, I've lost track. Which one are we talking about - the palomino Saddlebred, the Paso Fino, or the Peruvian in the Feldman video? Could you post the Feldman one again? -- I missed it. Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/ http://www.dslextreme.com/~napha/HighPoint/
Re: [IceHorses] bad trail gaits
On 13/03/2008, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wait, I've lost track. Which one are we talking about - the palomino Saddlebred, the Paso Fino, or the Peruvian in the Feldman video? I was referring to the palomino. I can't find the video link now. I must have pressed delete. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] bad trail gaits
Could you post the Feldman one again? -- I missed it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEXbSiZRm0Ufeature=related Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] High Strung Horses
Another mare from the same breeder weaves even in pasture, stops eating at the drop or a hat and cribs. Two others are similar. They are the weirdest wild-eyed horses I have ever seen, but they all had the same rough handling. There have been several times when I've heard such-and-such Icelandic stallion blamed for having difficult (or whatever) offspring. But, when I'd stop to think about it, the offspring were also often started and trained by the same person, or at least in the same forceful way. In the cases I'm thinking about, I'd bet on the rough training being the culprit, not the genetics. I'm fairly confident about one particular stallion - I own several of his babies and grandbabies. The ones started gently are ideal horses, very easy. I'm not saying that genetics has no effect, just that it's often easier for people to blame the genes than face the fact that they made mistakes in selecting a trainer... I think rough handling stays with a horse forever. They may forgive, but they won't forget. Karen Thomas, NC
