Re: [FLEAA] New Fla EV laws?
Hi Bill, Although he has not been directly involved himself as a principal in Florida Clean Cities Coalitions meetings and grant applications, Majority Leader Hasner is well aware of them and all the details of the latest grant round. Charles - Original Message - From: Bill Young yo...@fsec.ucf.edu To: Charles Whalen whal...@bellsouth.net; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] New Fla EV laws? HI Does Hasner know about Clean Cities? Or only FLAEAA? Bill == William Young Florida Solar Energy Center Senior Research Engineer University of Central Florida Clean Cities Coordinator Space Coast Clean Cities Coalition (321) 638 - 1443 1679 Clearlake Road (321) 638 - 1010 fax Cocoa, Florida 32922 www.fsec.ucf.edu (321) 638 - 1000 www.clean-cities.org www.energyfordisasters.org www.redrf.org == ** This email and any files transmitted with it are Intended Solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please delete the email and notify me or the system manager at rg...@fsec.ucf.edu. If this email was sent to you by a mailing-list, and if you want to be removed from the list, notify William Young to remove you from the list. ** Charles Whalen wrote: Hi Ira, In brief, corporate and local government fleets in Florida are planning to convert a total of about 750 Toyota Priuses to plug-in hybrid over the next year with the A123/Hymotion PHEV conversion kit (www.a123systems.com/hymotion/), for which they have applied for federal DOE Clean Cities grants. DOE final approval is expected in August. All of the conversions are being done by Foreign Affairs Auto in West Palm Beach, which is A123's authorized Florida installing dealer (www.foreignaffairsauto.com/pages/hymotion/). The conversion takes several hours. The A123/Hymotion PHEV conversion kit for the Prius has been crash tested and meets federal safety standards (NHTSA FMVSS) and has been emissions tested and meets California emissions standards for aftermarket plug-in hybrid conversions. (There do not yet exist any federal EPA emissions standards for aftermarket plug-in hybrid conversions, so California's emissions standards are what the entire country uses.) Best regards, Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: iRa peo...@peopletech.org To: Charles Whalen whal...@bellsouth.net; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] New Fla EV laws? Hello, Would it be possible to get excerpts from Charles' update on some of the Clean Cities activities and grants, that's going to happen today? Observing how other Florida Cities are preparing and working together on what's coming down the pike. We are a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan, nonprofit, research and educational organization and we're doing a mini-survey on current conditions. Thanks for your time and look forward to hearing from someone. Take care, Ira Reschman Vice President Peopletech 8837 W. Patterson St. Tampa, FL 33615-2303 peo...@peopletech.org http://peopletech.org Original Message - From: Charles Whalen whal...@bellsouth.net To: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] New Fla EV laws? Hi Jerry, Good question. Nothing got passed this year, not for EVs nor for anything else. The state faced a $6 billion budget shortfall that had to be closed, so the Legislature did not permit any new appropriations nor any new tax breaks, no exceptions allowed. Having said that, we are working closely with House Majority Leader Adam Hasner on some other possibilities, through other channels, for trying to fund state rebates for plug-in hybrid conversions. It's early and we still have a ways to go, but the prospects look fairly good of having something by the fall. We'll keep everyone posted. Thanks, Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: jerryd jer...@ij.net To: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] New Fla EV laws? Hi Shawn and All, There were proposed EV laws from EV incentives, no sales tax, no tolls, ect. Does anyone know what actually got passed? Thanks, Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: Shawn Waggoner - FLEAA sh...@floridaeaa.org To: 'FLEAA Mailing List' listserv@floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] New Fla EV laws?
Hi Jerry, Good question. Nothing got passed this year, not for EVs nor for anything else. The state faced a $6 billion budget shortfall that had to be closed, so the Legislature did not permit any new appropriations nor any new tax breaks, no exceptions allowed. Having said that, we are working closely with House Majority Leader Adam Hasner on some other possibilities, through other channels, for trying to fund state rebates for plug-in hybrid conversions. It's early and we still have a ways to go, but the prospects look fairly good of having something by the fall. We'll keep everyone posted. Thanks, Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: jerryd jer...@ij.net To: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] New Fla EV laws? Hi Shawn and All, There were proposed EV laws from EV incentives, no sales tax, no tolls, ect. Does anyone know what actually got passed? Thanks, Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: Shawn Waggoner - FLEAA sh...@floridaeaa.org To: 'FLEAA Mailing List' listserv@floridaeaa.org Subject: [FLEAA] Reminder: Meeting in Boca Saturday Morning Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:11:07 -0400 Hi Everyone, Just a reminder that our monthly meeting in Boca Raton will be this Saturday at Coastal Tire - hope to see everyone there. Charles Whalen will be giving an update on some of the Clean Cities activities and grants. -- Shawn M. Waggoner ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] Sun-Sentinel article on EVs in South Florida
www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-electric-cars-p061209,0,7235598.story ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] hi ted bobbye from fran
individual board member, sometimes shorter, sometimes longer, depending on one's own individual circumstances and the ebbs and flows in one's personal life. That is why we have a board of several individuals and not just a single individual -- among other things, so that we can all support and help each other with the communications load. This is how we function and operate as a board, especially with respect to communications. We do it in a tag-team or relay-rally type of fashion, passing the batton back and forth between board members, according to the ebbs and flows of each one's personal life, which will generally vary from person to person and from time to time. Let's please not forget that this is an all-volunteer organization and that we do this as a passion, but a passion that doesn't put food on anyone's table nor pay the rent or mortgage, and therefore our FLEAA activities and duties, including communications, must necessarily take a back seat to higher priority commitments like work and family. This means that we are occasionally (even *often*, at least in my case, as I'm one of the worst offenders in this) not as timely and responsive on communications as we would ideally like to be. What happens on the board is that we pass communications duties back and forth between us according to who has got some slack capacity and bandwidth at any given time. There are times when I am just swamped and I ask for Shawn's or Matt's or Allan's help in responding to someone about something, and someone is usually able to help me out, or I will say to Shawn that I just can't handle any communications and respond to any email for the next two weeks, and could you please help me out?, and Shawn is often able to do so. Likewise with Shawn, there are times when he is swamped and has no spare capacity and asks for my or Matt's help, and one of us is usually able to pick up the slack for him. That has been the case for the last few weeks, as I know that Shawn is absolutely swamped at work right now. In fact I even heard Shawn express some exasperation a few weeks ago about so many people that he has not been able to get back to and respond to, and Fran was one of the names he mentioned. (I should have, and would have, offered to help Shawn if it weren't for the fact that I myself am stretched pretty thin right now.) I also know, from what Shawn has often said to me, that he has the utmost, highest respect and admiration for Fran and all the great work she has done and continues to do to promote and advance the cause of electric vehicles in Florida, both in North Florida and throughout the entire state. There has been no greater supporter of Fran and her family's ambitious EVI statewide tour than Shawn! So what I would ask people here is just to have a little bit of patience and understanding on such communications time lags and not go off the deep end in reading too much into such gaps by jumping to unwarranted conclusions and acribing and attributing such negative motives to people and engaging in this kind of wild speculation and inferring such negative things about them and impugning their character in this kind of way. Folks, there are several people on the FLEAA board. If you can't get a hold of one of us and get a response out of one of us, it's probably because that particular individual is swamped and maxxed out on bandwidth at the moment. So please then just try others of us, until you get one of us who can respond to you in a timely fashion. On behalf of the board, I apologize for the frustrations caused by having to take this kind of Russian Roulette, hit-or-miss type of approach to finding which one of us currently has enough slack capacity for quickly responding to you, but again, that is just a fact of this being an all-volunteer organization that all of us do on the side, as time permits. Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the outstanding leadership of our FLEAA president, Shawn Waggoner, who gives selflessly and tirelessly of himself to this organization and movement and has done more to promote and advance the cause of electric vehicles in the state of Florida than anyone else I know. I could go on at great length here about Shawn's many outstanding contributions and achievements, but it would take me several pages of writing, and most of us already know and appreciate everything that Shawn does if you are actively involved in EVs around the state. This calumnious impugning of Shawn's character is most unfair to him and is completely uncalled for on our public forum. It is something that I as Shawn's colleague on the board, having the utmost respect for him and his leadership, take umbrage to. I would humbly and respectively suggest that Shawn is owed an apology. No offense or disrespect is intended to anyone here. Thanks best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA - Original Message - From: TED brawny...@hotmail.com To: fran sullivan-fahs
[FLEAA] Miami Goin' Green event update
Here's what we've got so far for participants in the two Miami Goin' Green events -- 1) the Alt Fuel Vehicle road rally from Bicentennial Park in downtown Miami to Miami City Hall in Coconut Grove, from 5pm to 7pm on Wednesday, April 22 (www.miamigoingreen.com/worldrecord.php), and 2) the daylong Earth Day festival on Saturday, April 25 at Bayfront Park in downtown Miami.(www.miamigoingreen.com). Confirmed --- Donato Helbling Allan Miller Charles Whalen Maybe Lowell Simmons If anyone else is interested in participating, please let me know. Thanks, Charles Whalen Florida EAA whal...@bellsouth.net ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] FW: World Record Event Info
I'm participating in the rally with my RAV4-EV. Anyone else? Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Shawn Waggoner - FLEAA sh...@floridaeaa.org To: 'FLEAA Mailing List' listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 7:12 PM Subject: [FLEAA] FW: World Record Event Info FYI... -- Shawn M. Waggoner Florida Electric Auto Association Mobile: (561) 543-9223 Fax: (561) 282-0693 Web: http://www.floridaeaa.org From: Tony Albelo [mailto:t...@oceanpromotions.com] Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 4:35 PM Subject: World Record Event Info We are getting closer to our World Record event on April 22nd at Bicentennial Park. We are excited and look forward to seeing you there. Drivers must be at the park between 5:00-6:00PM in order to be assigned a space in the procession. Those arriving early will get preferred assignment toward the beginning of the procession. There will also be FREE Biodiesel given to participants by our sponsor, Biodiesel in Motion Bio will be dispensed at the staging area in Bicentennial Park. . Wednesday April 22, 2009 - Earth Day World Record- Alternative Fuel Parade o 5:00 PM - Staging at Bicentennial Park (just north of American Airlines Arena) This is the main staging area. If your alternative-fuel vehicle has a low-range, we have a 2nd staging area at the Miami Science Museum. o 7:00 PM- Parade begins o 7:30 PM- Parade arrives to Miami Science Museum where low-range vehicles join the parade o 7:45 PM- Parade arrives at City Hall and Mayor Manny Diaz addresses the crowd The route will start at Bicentennial Park in Downtown Miami, run down Biscayne Boulevard, then historic Brickell and Bayshore Drives, then end at City Hall in Coconut Grove where the Mayor will address the participants. Attached is our press release for the event which gives you a broader idea for the event. If your vehicle has a low-range, we are asking that you take your car to the 2nd staging area at the Miami Science Museum. The distance is only 2 miles to the parade finale versus the 6 miles from Bicentennial park. We are still in need of more vehicles for the procession, so WE NEED YOU TO SPREAD THE WORD to your friends and clubs so we can take the record from Austria and bring it to the U.S.A.! They can sign-up on our website www.miamigoingreen.com. Each participant will receive a free t-shirt and Official Certificate showing their participation in the World Record. If you have any questions please contact the Green Team at 305-461-2700. See you there! ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] battery manufacturers in Florida?
Hi all, Just wondering if anyone knows of any battery manufacturers, whether established or in the start-up/venture stage, with production/assembly facilities located in Florida, or plans to do so? I know of Braille Battery in Sarasota, which was at our Battery Beach Burnout event, but I'm wondering if there are any others in Florida? Thanks, Charles Whalen Florida EAA whal...@bellsouth.net ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] Hasner FL incentives + federal incentives = $3.6k total incentives for plug-in Prius conversion
Hi everyone, Just thought you'd be interested to know that the $780 billion fiscal stimulus bill passed by Congress last weekend that will be signed into law today by President Obama contains a $1,000 federal tax credit for converting a Prius to a 120-mpg plug-in hybrid with the A123/Hymotion conversion kit (conforming to federal crash-test safety and emission standards). The new law specfically provides a 10% federal tax credit on the cost of the conversion, up to a maximum credit of $4,000. The A123/Hymotion Prius conversion costs $10,000, so the new federal tax credit will be $1,000 for converting a Prius with the A123/Hymotion kit. If Florida House Majority Leader Adam Hasner's EV Incentives state legislation, House Bill 879, passes both the Florida State House and State Senate and is signed into law by Governor Crist, it will provide an additional $2,600 worth of state-level incentives for converting a Prius to a plug-in hybrid with the A123/Hymotion kit, consisting of a $2,000 state rebate plus a $600 sales tax exemption. This would make the aggregate amount of federal and (proposed) state incentives for the A123/Hymotion plug-in Prius conversion worth a total of $3,600, which would bring the total cost of the conversion from $10,600 down to $7,000. That is a significant and substantial savings on the cost of the conversion to plug-in hybrid. Conversion cost: $10,000 FL sales tax: + $600 - Total conversion cost: $10,600 Minus: Federal tax credit:- $1,000 FL sales tax exemption: - $600 FL state rebate:- $2,000 -- Net conversion cost: $7,000 Foreign Affairs Auto in West Palm Beach is the only authorized A123/Hymotion installer in the Southeastern US. The conversion takes only a day to do, with the car in and out the same day. You can read more about it at: www.foreignaffairsauto.com/pages/hymotion Here again are the links to Majority Leader Hasner's Florida EV Incentives legislation: Majority Leader Hasner's press release: http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/files/hasner.%20EV.PR.pdf House Bill 879: www.myfloridahouse.gov:80/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=40983SessionId=61 Best regards, Charles Whalen Florida Electric Auto Association whal...@bellsouth.net www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Hasner FL incentives + federal incentives = $3.6k totalincentives for plug-in Prius conversion
Thanks Fran, for the kind words and for all that you yourself are doing to promote EVs in Florida! Indeed, as the pioneering first consumer A123/Hymotion conversion in Florida, you have been and are integral part of all of this, of the legislative initiative, right at the center of it, and indeed a primary impetus and inspiration for it. You are playing a vital role with your statewide EVI tour as a leading showcase in the state for EVs and the benefits of this legislation. We look forward to supporting and participating in your statewide tour and seeing you this weekend at BBB! Thanks again! Charles - Original Message - From: fran sullivan-fahs sullyf...@comcast.net To: Charles Whalen whal...@bellsouth.net; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:14 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Hasner FL incentives + federal incentives = $3.6k totalincentives for plug-in Prius conversion Thank you, Charles, for all you have done to help these state and federal incentives happen. Even though it hurts to know that we won't be happy recipients of those incentives, I think that, somehow, the presence of our PHEV may have helped those good things happen. And, on The Electric Vehicle Initiative, which begins this Friday, we will have this good news of the incentives to pass on to those interested in converting their Prius to a PHEV. This is, truely, good news. We will watch HB 879 and help wherever we can. Congrats, again! Fran, Ron Joy The EVI - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen whal...@bellsouth.net To: Florida EAA ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:13 AM Subject: [FLEAA] Hasner FL incentives + federal incentives = $3.6k totalincentives for plug-in Prius conversion Hi everyone, Just thought you'd be interested to know that the $780 billion fiscal stimulus bill passed by Congress last weekend that will be signed into law today by President Obama contains a $1,000 federal tax credit for converting a Prius to a 120-mpg plug-in hybrid with the A123/Hymotion conversion kit (conforming to federal crash-test safety and emission standards). The new law specfically provides a 10% federal tax credit on the cost of the conversion, up to a maximum credit of $4,000. The A123/Hymotion Prius conversion costs $10,000, so the new federal tax credit will be $1,000 for converting a Prius with the A123/Hymotion kit. If Florida House Majority Leader Adam Hasner's EV Incentives state legislation, House Bill 879, passes both the Florida State House and State Senate and is signed into law by Governor Crist, it will provide an additional $2,600 worth of state-level incentives for converting a Prius to a plug-in hybrid with the A123/Hymotion kit, consisting of a $2,000 state rebate plus a $600 sales tax exemption. This would make the aggregate amount of federal and (proposed) state incentives for the A123/Hymotion plug-in Prius conversion worth a total of $3,600, which would bring the total cost of the conversion from $10,600 down to $7,000. That is a significant and substantial savings on the cost of the conversion to plug-in hybrid. Conversion cost: $10,000 FL sales tax: + $600 - Total conversion cost: $10,600 Minus: Federal tax credit:- $1,000 FL sales tax exemption: - $600 FL state rebate:- $2,000 -- Net conversion cost: $7,000 Foreign Affairs Auto in West Palm Beach is the only authorized A123/Hymotion installer in the Southeastern US. The conversion takes only a day to do, with the car in and out the same day. You can read more about it at: www.foreignaffairsauto.com/pages/hymotion Here again are the links to Majority Leader Hasner's Florida EV Incentives legislation: Majority Leader Hasner's press release: http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/files/hasner.%20EV.PR.pdf House Bill 879: www.myfloridahouse.gov:80/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=40983SessionId=61 Best regards, Charles Whalen Florida Electric Auto Association whal...@bellsouth.net www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1957 - Release Date: 2/17/2009 7:07 AM ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] Keys GLEE Expo in Marathon, March 28
Karen Beal, the Alt Transportation coordinator for the Keys GLEE Expo, asked me to pass along to the Florida EAA list that so far they've got 30 alt fuel electric vehicles signed up to be displayed at the GLEE Expo in Marathon on Saturday, March 28. Karen says they have room for a few more vehicles, if anyone is interested in bringing their EV down there (for those of you who have not yet let Karen know that you're coming, as a number of us have already done). There is no charge to exhibit your EV at the Keys GLEE Expo. More info is available at: www.keysglee.com/html/09_expo/2009expo.html You can contact Karen Beal at: kbe...@aol.com, 305-451-3000. Charles Whalen Florida EAA ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] follow-up post from Karen Beal on the Keys GLEE Expo
Mark the date! March 28, 2009 4th Annual Green Living Expo Join our Alternative Transportation Exhibit. You are invited to be an exhibitor at the 4th Annual Florida Keys Green Living Energy Education (GLEE) Expo Saturday, March 28, 2009 in Marathon in the Florida Keys. The Green Living Expo is dedicated to demonstrating ideas and technologies that promote sustainability, renewable energy and water energy conservation. The AltTran Showcase is a huge part of the Expo and draws an interested crowd. The 2008 Expo welcomed an estimated 3,000 visitors, residents, contractors, utilities and environmental organizations last year. This year's event, with over 30 alternative vehicles, will be extensively marketed through advertising in South Florida and promotion with regional radio, television, and print. Bring your EV to display in the showcase - FLEAA has earned your spot through their generous participation and promotion of the Expo. Enjoy a beautiful weekend in the Keys - join in the fun. For more information, please check out keysGLEE.com or contact kbe...@aol.com or call 305-451-3000. ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Florida electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday
Hi Jerry, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, which I'll pass along. Look forward to seeing you later this week at BBB, when we can discuss further. Til then, best, Charles - Original Message - From: jerryd jer...@ij.net To: Charles Whalen whal...@bellsouth.net; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Florida electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday Hi Charles and All, Reading the text under this under Bill Text http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=40983SessionId=61 The rebate may be impossible to get. Are there any Fed qualifying Kits for specific models you must have to get it? Which are they? Even if so only 100 rebates are available/yr. The only one to actually get money maybe is the Fla Solar Energy Center which gets $200k /yr for administration of $200k/yr of 100 rebates. The charging stations only allows Avcon and Magna-charger outlets I believe the SAE standard is so can anyone use them? Maybe yours and other RAV4 EV's of which they are 2-4 in the state but who else? I know the Magna-charger is no longer made and the Avcon? Much better is to use standard RV outlets everyone uses. Spelling may be off. Maybe suggest these changes. Cut everything but 60 mph highway capable, 2-3-4wheel eligible 4-6kwhr/1hr rate battery pack or more. Voltage, amphr, are not needed, only kwhr is. inspected by DMV to FSEC standards, tilted in Fla. For safety must have 3 safety cut offs of fuses, breakers, contactors. Propulsion power must be isolated from body/chassis. KIS For $50k FSEC could write a reasonable, doable EV conversion standard DMV inspectors can follow and publish it. The rest of the $350K/yr for 175 rebates/yr. Or better if they want an industry change that to $4M for 2000/yr rebates creating more jobs, EV's which I'd think would be the point. Maybe restrict it to Fla built conversions, new EV's. Take the money from the gasoline road, the utility tax funds or the stimulus to cover it. For charging standard RV 240 and 120 vac outlets with GFI with a weather cover to keep plugging in dry. EV legislation isn't any good if it can't be used by enough to make a difference. The sales tax break on EV's, EV parts and free tolls will help. Charging outlets on rest areas, turnpike service areas and every 20 miles along interstates at gas stations or restaurants, ect if those are not available would help a lot. Thoughts anyone? Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: Charles Whalen whal...@bellsouth.net To: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Subject: Re: [FLEAA] New Fed EV tax credits, Florida electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:33:31 -0500 Hi Jerry, There's no such thing as a tax credit for individuals here in Florida because of course Florida doesn't have a personal income tax. But there is a $2,000 rebate for individuals, from the state, that is in the legislation. Charles -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1953 - Release Date: 2/14/2009 6:01 PM ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Florida electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday
Hi Jerry, I'm on the road this week with a number of meetings and am otherwise, like everyone else, pretty full up trying to get ready for BBB, so no time unfortunately to discuss any of this now, this coming week, but would be glad to do so at BBB. Hope you can make it! Thanks, Charles - Original Message - From: jerryd jer...@ij.net To: Charles Whalen whal...@bellsouth.net; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Florida electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday Hi Charles and All, I was kind of thinking we could get a proposal together that's more realistic and actually does something good since we have the pols there and can show them real life EV's. We could use my points below as a starting point and add, subtract from it and vet it for facts like are there any qualified kits? What exactly is the SAE standard? Make a proposal with part numbers for the charging outlets. The feds just did a 50% tax credit for charging points too. Anyone have ideas we could put in, change, ect? If we could get it done by Wed I could email it out to the pols, transportation aids, Gov Crist in advance. Luckily the leadership seem to be on our side!! WE have a good chance here to move the ball in Fla for EV's and we should prepare and take it. It's amazing Fla has been so backward but in the last 3 yrs both RE and EV's are getting help, moving into the future!! I certainly would like to see EV builders like me, others get start up funding, either loans or grants as banks won't for my Freedom EV and others wanting to put people to work. We should also present conversion shops as a job maker and EV's as a new industry. I only drive my EV 3wh MC (as a tree took out my car, trailer, EV trike, camper, cash) which has a 40 mile range so I can't make it unless I can share gas, hotel expenses from someone coming from or through the Tampa area. If anyone can I could use a ride as this looks like an EVent we all need to be at. I'm just 1 mile off I-75 SE of Tampa. Thanks, Jerry Dycus Hi Jerry, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, which I'll pass along. Look forward to seeing you later this week at BBB, when we can discuss further. Til then, best, Charles - Original Message - From: jerryd jer...@ij.net Hi Charles and All, Reading the text under this under Bill Text http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=40983SessionId=61 The rebate may be impossible to get. Are there any Fed qualifying Kits for specific models you must have to get it? Which are they? Even if so only 100 rebates are available/yr. The only one to actually get money maybe is the Fla Solar Energy Center which gets $200k /yr for administration of $200k/yr of 100 rebates. The charging stations only allows Avcon and Magna-charger outlets I believe the SAE standard is so can anyone use them? Maybe yours and other RAV4 EV's of which they are 2-4 in the state but who else? I know the Magna-charger is no longer made and the Avcon? Much better is to use standard RV outlets everyone uses. Spelling may be off. Maybe suggest these changes. Cut everything but 60 mph highway capable, 2-3-4wheel eligible 4-6kwhr/1hr rate battery pack or more. Voltage, amphr, are not needed, only kwhr is. inspected by DMV to FSEC standards, tilted in Fla. For safety must have 3 safety cut offs of fuses, breakers, contactors. Propulsion power must be isolated from body/chassis. KIS For $50k FSEC could write a reasonable, doable EV conversion standard DMV inspectors can follow and publish it. The rest of the $350K/yr for 175 rebates/yr. Or better if they want an industry change that to $4M for 2000/yr rebates creating more jobs, EV's which I'd think would be the point. Maybe restrict it to Fla built conversions, new EV's. Take the money from the gasoline road, the utility tax funds or the stimulus to cover it. For charging standard RV 240 and 120 vac outlets with GFI with a weather cover to keep plugging in dry. EV legislation isn't any good if it can't be used by enough to make a difference. The sales tax break on EV's, EV parts and free tolls will help. Charging outlets on rest areas, turnpike service areas and every 20 miles along interstates at gas stations or restaurants, ect if those are not available would help a lot. Thoughts anyone? Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: Charles Whalen whal...@bellsouth.net To: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Subject: Re: [FLEAA] New Fed EV tax credits, Florida electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:33
[FLEAA] Article in today's Sun-Sentinel on Foreign Affairs' A123/Hymotion Prius plug-in hybrid conversions
West Palm Beach company converts Toyota Priuses to plug-in Hybrids by Rich Pollack Saturday, February 14, 2009 Jonathan Ortiz is a man of vision. Several years before Mercedes-Benz agreed to bring the Smart Car to the U.S., Ortiz had persuaded his family to buy the cars from importers and begin selling them at the family's West Palm Beach dealership, Foreign Affairs. We knew it was the time for it, Ortiz says, who had Smart Cars in 2006, when SUVs were still the hottest wheels on the market. We knew there was a change coming. Ortiz and Foreign Affairs are now setting out to get ahead of the curve once more, this time taking the technology that will power the cars of the future and using it on cars of today. Beginning this month, Foreign Affairs will be converting Toyota Prius vehicles from traditional hybrids to plug-in hybrids. Essentially, what that means is Prius owners can spend an extra $10,000 to have a kit -- the A123 Hymotion Plug-in Conversion Module -- installed in their car and transform it into one that can run on electricity for the first 30 to 40 miles. This is especially ideal for a person who drives around town or for fleet vehicles because you're going to get 100 plus miles to the gallon, says Ortiz, director of business development at Foreign Affairs. While the conversion kits have been around for a while -- until recently there were only five authorized Hymotion installers -- Foreign Affairs is the only site in Florida that has been approved as a certified Hymotion installation provider. Ortiz set his sites on getting an agreement with Hymotion because he knows that plug-in hybrids will be big in a very short time and demand will grow. By the end of next year and the beginning of 2011, plug-in hybrids like the Chevy Volt and similar offerings from other manufacturers will become available but initially, production of those will be limited and the cars hard to get. The kit from Hymotion makes it possible to use the same technology that will be the heart and soul of the production plug-in hybrids and use it in today's cars. Here's how it works: The factory-made Prius, like many other hybrids available today, runs on a combination of electricity and gasoline. Nickel metal hydride batteries are charged by the gasoline engine during the driving process. When the car reaches certain speeds the gasoline engine kicks in. With the conversion kit, a lithium ion battery -- the same type that will be used in the Volt -- is fitted where the spare tire is now. When the car is running, regardless of speed, it is being driven entirely by the electric engine. If the battery runs low, a sensor is triggered and the car automatically converts to the gasoline engine. Using a regular household outlet, the lithium-ion battery can be fully recharged in less than six hours. For right now, Ortiz says, the kit is only available for 2004-2009 Prius hybrids, and there's a pretty good reason for that. Before the kits launched, Hymotion went through the process of getting the converted Prius vehicles certified by the government and crash tested. The company also worked with Toyota to ensure that the conversion would not void the vehicle's warranty. The company is, however, exploring conversion models for other hybrid vehicles. Those customers who get a Hymotion conversion will also discover that the work can be done in one day and that all the conversion parts are covered by a three-year warranty. For Ortiz and Foreign Affairs, a company that sells pre-owned foreign luxury vehicles and repairs luxury imports, the designation as a certified Hymotion installation partner is part of a natural progression that has led to the creation of Foreign Affairs Zero!, a division that focuses on zero emissions vehicles. In addition to selling what are known as neighborhood electric vehicles -- small cars that can reach speeds up to 40 mph -- Foreign Affairs also sells the Vectrix VX1, the world's first two-wheel highway capable electric motorcycle which can top 62 mph and has a range between 35 and 55+ miles. In fact, the Vectrix is the only vehicle owned by Ortiz, who discovered electric vehicles -- and smart cars -- while studying in Rome for a year. What I saw in Europe was that electric vehicles are just fascinating, he said. There's less noise pollution, the latest technology and zero emissions. To find out more, visit www.ForeignAffairsAuto.com. ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] New Fed EV tax credits, Florida electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday
Hi Jerry, There's no such thing as a tax credit for individuals here in Florida because of course Florida doesn't have a personal income tax. But there is a $2,000 rebate for individuals, from the state, that is in the legislation. Charles - Original Message - From: jerryd jer...@ij.net To: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:19 PM Subject: [FLEAA] New Fed EV tax credits,Florida electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday Hi Charles and All, Thanks for that Charles, nice work. Maybe you could talk him into giving Regular people the $1k/yr credit for their EV's like they are giving business's. I need to make sure he corrected their mistake last yr when they accidentally made enclosed 3wh MC's illegal while trying to just make them exempt from MC license requirements!! Below your post is the new EV tax credits in the stimulus bill. - Original Message Follows - From: Charles Whalen whal...@bellsouth.net To: Florida EAA ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Subject: [FLEAA] Florida electric vehicle incentives legislation announced yesterday Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:33:36 -0500 Majority Leader Hasner's press release yesterday: http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/files/hasner.%20EV.PR.pdf House Bill 879: http://www.myfloridahouse.gov:80/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=40983SessionId=61 My posts from the EVDL, Thanks for posting this rather confusing law. Going through it several times I found some of what it gives in the first part is taken away in the bottom part. Links below it direct others who may want to explore farther. My reading basically comes down to A 10% credit for 4wheel road legal conversions of 4kwhr or more to $4k max credit until 12-31-11. 10% credit for MC, 3wh MC max $2500 to 12-31-11. New 4wh road EV's $2500 + 417/kwhr of batteries above 4kwhr max $7500 beginning 12-31-09 so not until next yr!! And no extra for extra weight and none above 14,000lbs. Now some of the previous ones done in Nov may still be in force or before that unless changed in this one. I believe then there was and probably still is a %7500 tax credit for this yrs new EV's. So if you build a 4wh EV from scratch, kit like Lee's Sunrise or a new untitled car you title as built by you can probably get the full $7500 credit. My Freedom EV may become a 4wh kit ;^D !! I designed it that way already 3 yrs ago. My rear trailing arm is designed to flip over for 4wh use, one on each side. It also mentioned nonrefundable which I think means it counts only if you have a tax liability big enough or you just get the amount you owe. Some get it even if they hit the AMT tax so check your accountant on that if you are in that category. Battery lessors can't get the credit so Better Place isn't doing so well in it. Don't forget the new energy bill is coming up so more could be in it. I'm going to try to get a better deal for conversions and Cabin freeway 3wheeler EV's. When I find out who's in charge of it I'll let the list know. Or if anyone knows who please tell us!! Probably the energy/transportation committees aids are the ones to get it in. The new Kia small car is under $10K and I'd bet others can be bought new under that, then converted as a business, titled under the business's name will qualify for that credit. The $7500 credit means you could convert, sell them for $15k after credit and make $4k each or more. Or buy kitcars finished without motor/trans like the Factory 5 Coupe finished, tilted new as an EV to get the credit. Don't forget the home or public charging 50% credit, $2000 max for home and $50K max for public!! And there is 30% tax credits for solar, wind, CHP, ect in it too. Jerry Dycus - Original Message Follows - From: Zeke Yewdall zyewd...@gmail.com To: jer...@ij.net, Electric Vehicle Discussion List e...@lists.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: [EVDL] New EV stimulus info Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:14:37 -0700 Some excerpts that I found in the Joint Explanatory Statement Part B. (sorry for the bizarre formatting -- that's how it copied out of their document) Plg- i n el ect r i c d r i v e mo t o r vehi cl e c r e d i t A credit is available for each qualified pl ug-i n electric drive mot or vehicle pl aced in service. A qualified plug-in electric drive mot or vehi cl e is a mot or vehi cl e that has at least four wheels, is manufactured for use on publ i c roads, meet s certain emi ssi ons st andards (except for 211 Sec. 30B. 136 certain heavy vehicles), draws propulsion using a traction battery with at least
[FLEAA] Battery Beach Burnout update
members of the organizing team, including Andrew Roddy, Matt Graham, Lowell Simmons, Bob Fuerstenau, and myself, on the other hand, from my humble perspective and what I have observed, I would have to say that 80% of the work has been and is being done by Shawn, and therefore that Shawn deserves 80% of the credit for what is going to be, as I said here at the outset, just an absolute blowout, stellar event! Look forward to seeing everyone there! Thanks, Charles Whalen Florida EAA ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] EV Predictions
When did Siry get canned? And why? Anyone know? - Original Message - From: Andrew bobandr...@comcast.net To: 'FLEAA Mailing List' listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 7:25 PM Subject: [FLEAA] EV Predictions Here are some interesting predictions for EVs. http://darrylsiry.blogspot.com/ Andrew ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] Fw: [EVDL] Battery Beach Burnout
- Original Message - From: lawless...@aol.com To: e...@listproc.sjsu.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:44 AM Subject: [EVDL] Battery Beach Burnout I noticed that the new Palm Beach International Raceway (Moroso) is up and running after a major rehab. Is anyone interested in meeting there Friday Night during Battery Beach Burnout for some EV drag racing? I need to get AGNS and Juiced Up into the 8's and this seems like a perfect time to give it a whirl. Shawn Lawless ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] vehicle transporters in Florida?
I'm looking for a vehicle transporter to truck my Toyota RAV4-EV from Palm Beach County to Tallahassee in late February and then back again the other way in mid March. I used Passport FedEx several years ago to transport my RAV4-EVs from California to Florida and could look into them again. But I just thought I'd check our FLEAA list to see if any of you have ever used, and had good experiences with, vehicle transport companies here in Florida. Anyone? I used an enclosed transporter for the cross-country trips from California to Florida but would probably be willing to go with an open transporter up to Tallahassee and back. (No winter road salt getting kicked up on my car.) Thanks, Charles Whalen ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] electric car event with legislators in Tallahassee on March 11
In conjunction with his electric vehicle incentives legislation, Florida's House Majority Leader Adam Hasner and the Florida Electric Auto Association will jointly host a free showing of the film Who Killed the Electric Car? at the IMAX Theater, across the street from the Capitol in Tallahassee, at 200 S. Duval St., on Wednesday March 11 at 6:00pm. A Question Answer session will follow the film with: * Chelsea Sexton, star of the film and founder of Plug In America * James Woolsey, former CIA Director * Tony Posawatz, GM Chevy Volt division manager There will be a display of electric cars featuring a Toyota RAV4-EV and a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid in the Capitol courtyard from 8:00am to 4:30pm and in Kleman Plaza in front of the IMAX Theater from 4:30pm to 9:30pm. All are welcome. If you'd like the event flyer and a brief summary of Majority Leader Hasner's EV incentives legislation, please send me an email request off-list at whal...@bellsouth.net, and I will send them to you by email, as I can't post attachments to the list. Charles Whalen Florida EAA whal...@bellsouth.net ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Florida Tech Sustainability Conference website, March 3 4
Hi Frank, A slight correction on my role within the FLEAA. I was previously the FLEAA's Publicity Director, but that has now been taken over by Andrew Roddy, who is, quite frankly, doing a much better job at it than I ever did. Andrew has done, and is doing, a fantastic job with the media with all the great coverage and exposure he has generated for the FLEAA and electric cars in Florida. Andrew has really stepped it up a quantum leap and is definitely the right person for that role. As for my participation in the conference, I am expecting to come but am still working on our Tallahassee event the following week. It looks like I am probably going to have one of my Toyota RAV4-EVs transported up to Tallahassee that same week of your conference. I am trying to nail down the exact date of the Tally event today (which will be either March 10th or 11th). It's possible that I can bring my other RAV4-EV up to Melbourne for your conference on March 3-4, but that will require that I have someone in Tally who can accept, receive, and take delivery of my car there that week so that I don't have to be there in Tally myself (if I am going to be in Melbourne). My first thought would be to ask Fran Sullivan-Fahs to do that, but of course she won't be home in Tally, as she will be out on her statewide EVI tour, including in Melbourne on March 3-4. So I have still got some logistics to work out on this, to figure out how I can be in Melbourne on March 3-4 and yet have one of my RAV4-EVs transported to Tally at the same time. I will get back to you as soon as I get this figured out. Florida Tech's Sustainability Conference is important to me, and I am still planning to make every effort to be there. Thanks best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA Delray Beach, FL whal...@bellsouth.net P.S. I expect to post more info about the Tallahassee event later this week. - Original Message - From: Frank Leslie fles...@fit.edu To: 'FLEAA Mailing List' listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:16 AM Subject: [FLEAA] Florida Tech Sustainability Conference website, March 3 4 We now have the Florida Tech Sustainability Conference website online at http://411.fit.edu/sustainability/index.php. This will be a good venue to show electric cars; the Detroit Auto Show has many on display. http://411.fit.edu/sustainability/schedule.php has the conference schedule, with the Renewable Energy session on March 4, 2009. 2:00pm - 5:15pm RENEWABLE (SUSTAINABLE) ENERGY Introduction Directive Comments - Frank Leslie (25)Frank Leslie (Adjunct Prof, Dept of Marine Environmental Systems, Florida Tech) Florida's Approach to 20% Renewable Energy Transition (26)Frank Jackalone (Senior Field Rep in FL, Sierra Club, Tampa, FL) Energy Solutions (27)Lawrence Maxwell (VP, Florida American Institute of Architects (AIA), Tallahassee, FL) Building Efficiency and Sustainable Design (28)Bill Young (Senior Research Engineer, Florida Solar Energy Center, Cocoa, FL) Emergency Power for Critical Home Items (29)Fran Sullivan-Fahs (Prius PHEV Owner, Florida Electric Auto Assn, Tallahassee, FL) Third Party Conversion to Production Vehicles/Plug-In Hybrid Vehicles (30)Charles Whalen (Publicity Director, Florida Electric Auto Assn, Tallahassee, FL) invited Electric Cars Used In Florida (31)George Maul (Dept Head, Department of Marine Environmental Systems, Florida Tech) The Green Ship - Conservation at Sea The speakers are/will be listed at http://411.fit.edu/sustainability/speakers.php, info still coming in. Comments: It looks like PHEVs and BEVs will be a centerpiece of the Obama Administration. T. Boone Pickens is meeting with President-Elect Obama again to push for compressed natural gas for 18-wheeler tractors saying that carrying batteries for truck loads on board is too heavy to be economical. The gas would be displaced from utilities by new wind energy. Comments? Frank Leslie ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] AGNS motorcycle at Orlando Speedworld Friday night
The Lawless Industries racing team will be at Orlando Speedworld drag strip ( Bithlo) on Friday night, taking on the gassers. We will be breaking in AGNS' beautiful new A123 pack by Derek Barger. HP will be down a tick from all the lead she had previously but weight is down over 300 lbs. 60 ft times will most certainly improve but will there be enough at the end of the track? Come on out Friday and find out. Hope to see you there. Shawn Lawless ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] My mathematical explanation of the extreme oil price volatility we are seeing in a post Peak Oil world
- Original Message - From: Charles Whalen To: Fran Sullivan-Fahs Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 7:05 PM Subject: Re: what do you think, charles? from fran Very complex subject. Peak Oil is not about running out of oil; it's about having reached maximum supply and production. There's a big difference. Basically what Peak Oil does is that it puts a cap on GDP, where the only way GDP can grow any further is through efficiency gains. The practical effect of this is that we will see repeated cycles of rolling recessions (or worse, depressions) and recoveries, but without a longer term trendline of growth. The longer term trendline will be flat. This is exactly what we are seeing. Global oil extraction and production peaked in 2005 and has fallen slightly since then. We are now on a very slightly decreasing plateau and will likely not see larger declines in oil output for a few years, possibly until 2012-15, when the declines will get steeper. There can be, and will be, lots of oil price volatility within this paradigm, with price basically determined by demand. What we now have is a demand-destruction dynamic, where price will moderate demand and vice-versa, but where total supply is limited and capped by the global peak that is now clearly visible behind us in the rear-view mirror back in 2005. Peak Oil is only visible in hindsight, and we've now got that hindsight to clearly see it. There are mathematical models which explain the extreme price volatility we are seeing and will continue to see in the oil market. In the absence of any widely developed and available, competing substitute for oil and with the supply of oil constrained and limited to the peak we have already seen behind us and unable to expand any further, I see mathematical queueing models as a good proxy and theoretical construct for explaining this price volatility. In a queueing model, you have a demand rate and a supply rate, just as in the case of the oil market. Mathematical queueing models do not directly incorporate price into them, but this can be done by proxy, as the length of the queue -- or equivalently, the waiting time in the queue (which is proportional to the length of the queue) -- can be thought of as a proxy for price, since price will likely be directly proportional to the length of the queue (or equivalently, waiting time in the queue). This may be somewhat counter-intuitive to those without mathematical training, at least on first thought, but the length of the queue (and waiting time in it), and hence, by proxy, the price of oil, takes off exponentially and skyrockets as the demand rate approaches the limited, constrained, fixed supply rate. In fact, the length of the queue, and hence price of oil, actually goes to infinity (in the mathematical model) as slack capacity completely disappears and the demand rate reaches 100% of supply, bumping up against the fixed supply constraint. This can be seen mathematically, for the simplest M/M/1 queue, with the formula: L(t) = 1/[mu(t)-lambda(t)] where L(t) = length of the queue (as a proxy for price) at time t lambda(t) = demand rate at time t mu(t) = supply rate at time t This mathematical model is a good proxy in explaining the demand-destruction dynamic in a supply-constrained environment, as we now have with the oil market having reached maximum global ouput, and the resulting repeated cycles of rolling recessions and recoveries that we are seeing and will continue to see, with a flat longer-term GDP trendline, where demand continues to bump up against this fixed ceiling at the height of each recovery, causing the price of oil to skyrocket, which then results in demand destruction, leading to another recession and then subsequent recovery, and so on and so on. As demand backs off of the fixed, constrained supply going into each recession, the mathematical model explains and demonstrates how the price of oil will drop precipitously with the more slack capacity that is freed up through demand destruction. Basically what will happen is that with sufficient slack capacity (of supply over demand) in the global oil market, the price of oil will start to drop back down towards its cost of extraction and production, which is exactly what we are now seeing. The only way we can get out of the vicious cycle of this paradigm (explained reasonably well by mathematical queueing models), which has stalled and flatlined long-term economic growth, is to develop a widely available competitive substitute for oil, which of course would be electrically-powered transportation, i.e. EVs. That would remove the constraint and ceiling on economic growth and allow the global economy to once again expand. Charles - Original Message - From: Fran Sullivan-Fahs To: Charles Whalen Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 10:50 AM Subject: what do you think, charles? from fran Peak oil hoax: Keeping the idea of EVs alive in the era of cheap gas Posted by: doug
[FLEAA] Fw: Unveiling Miami EV Project
Unveiling Miami EV ProjectCharles, here is our press realease, we are finishing the car this week! bring on the FLEAA boys to see the car at the show! Contact: Donato Helbling Danny Alva Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Miami EV Project: Making Gas a Thing of the Past Unveiling the Modern Day Electric Car during Miami’s High Art and Design Season Miami, FL, November 16, 2008 – Having heard a lot of talk lately about electric cars, but having seen no practical results, two young men have set out to educate and change minds using a combination of environmentally conscious art, design, materials and technology. Danny Alva and Donato Helbling, two friends who have come together to create the Miami EV Project, will present their first electric car as part of an green-art installation at the Green Art Fair Miami 2008, December 2nd to the 7th, at 3100 NW Midtown Blvd, Miami ( www.greenartfair.com ). The Miami Electric Vehicle Project is a non-profit initiative dedicated to the independent research and development of electric vehicles. They are not trying to reinvent the wheel, but more so to provide public education and accurate information, not promises, on this untapped technology. “In less than 70 days we converted a gasoline car into a 100% electric vehicle with materials and components available today, No experimental technology whatsoever. If we can do it, why can’t everybody? Do we really need to wait for car companies to sell us a new electric car? A lot of our time, energy, and money has gone into this project; it has enabled me to combine my knowledge in electrical engineering with my passion for the environment and cars” says Donato Helbling. The consumerist American lifestyle has as piled up junkyards with cars less than 5-10 years old and has led to an influx of environmental hazards and waste that only aggravates the c urrent environmental crisis. This could be positively affected with the Miami EV Project, as the conversions of cars would essentially consist on recycling gasoline cars and converting them into electric powered vehicles, reducing the waste, resources and maintenance needs. This innovative first project is aimed to demystify all negative publicity electric cars have had over the years and to show the public that converting a gasoline car to electric is not as complicated as it would seem. The men hope to inspire others to follow their lead and create their own conversions. Watch as the literal magic happens step-by-step on their website and blog: http://www.miamiEVproject.com, where you can find entire documentation of blood, sweat, tears, and battles with batteries via photos, videos, and written accounts. In addition to converting a car, they are wrapping its exterior with a painting by the artist LEBO and re designing the interior with eco-friendly fabrics from Valley Forge Fabrics. Also, the duo is filming a documentary and preparing a lecture series to raise awareness on this topic. This is why GreenArtUSA.org sponsored the Miami EV Project to be one of the art projects in Green Art Fair Miami 2008, a fully solar and bio-diesel powered green art fair showcasing eco-friendly designers, artists, and businesses. Alva and Helbling, plan on the extension of a concept of a reality show or documentary series titled “Green Your Ride”, that will take your favorite gas-guzzling ride and to convert it into a more eco-friendly car. This will help promote electric cars as an alternative way of urban transportation as well as reduce the amount of recent cars entering junkyards. Even having received support from artists, vendors, and the community the Miami EV Project is still accepting donations to cover the costs of the project. To donate to this innovative initiative and for more information, please visit: http://www.miamievproject.com/donations/ . To RSVP for the Green Art Fair contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Florida House Majority Leader Adam Hasner to sponsor legislation to promote electric vehicles
For instance, two key, influential lawmakers whose support would be very helpful to this EV legislative initiative and crucial to winning its ultimate passage in the House are Rep. Dean Cannon of Winter Park, who is in line to be the next Speaker, in 2010, and Ellyn Bogdanoff of Fort Lauderdale, the Majority Whip. The single best way to get legislators onboard would be for them to hear from their constituents on this, urging them to support Rep. Hasner's EV legislative initiative, by receiving emails and letters from citizens in their districts, like our FLEAA members Hugh Webber in Rep. Cannon's district of Winter Park and Paul Renneisen in Rep. Bogdanoff's district in Fort Lauderdale. Emails are good, and written letters are even better. Best would be both, an email followed up by a written letter, sent to the legislator's district office, not to his or her Tallahassee office, as they won't be in Tallahassee until March. We need a lot of help in trying to build political support for this in North Florida as well, including in the Panhandle, from our members up there. Thanks, Charles - Original Message - From: Shawn Waggoner - FLEAA [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'FLEAA Mailing List' listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Florida House Majority Leader Adam Hasner tosponsorlegislation to promote electric vehicles Wow Charles, this is amazing! I truly hope that we can start getting support from our State Reps. and Senators on EVs. I think Hasner's focus on EVs will help make things happen here FL. I would encourage all of our members to contact their State Reps and encourage them to support Hasner in this initiative. You can use the link below to find out who your Rep is: http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Representatives/myrepresentative.aspx Thanks for sending this out Charles! Shawn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Whalen Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:19 PM To: Florida EAA Subject: [FLEAA] Florida House Majority Leader Adam Hasner to sponsorlegislation to promote electric vehicles http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/shared-blogs/palmbeach/floridapolitics/upload/2008/11/hasner_promotes_tax_cuts_for_h/081119_HasnerElectric.pdf ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] drag racing in Naples
Just wanted to pass along for those of you in SW FL that NEDRA President Shawn Lawless ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is going to be racing a 800 HP 2WD swamp buggy in Naples on January 24th (although he didn't say exactly where in Naples) and is planning to bring his electric dragster Juiced Up to race that as well. (I assume there must be a drag strip in the Naples area somewhere.) Shawn said that if Moroso reopens in time for BBB, he will bring Juiced Up back down to South Florida to drag race it at Moroso on Friday evening of the BBB weekend. Charles ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] Florida House Majority Leader Adam Hasner to sponsor legislation to promote electric vehicles
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/shared-blogs/palmbeach/floridapolitics/upload/2008/11/hasner_promotes_tax_cuts_for_h/081119_HasnerElectric.pdf ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Exciting News
Does anyone know if the Tesla that will be exhibited at Art Basel in Miami on December 5th will be brought by Tesla (the company) itself, or by one of its customers? I can find out from the company but just thought I'd first ask our group here, in case anyone knows. Thanks, Charles - Original Message - From: Andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'FLEAA Mailing List' listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Exciting News One condition regarding the December 5th event may be a designated driver for the Tesla with everyone riding but not driving. The details have not been worked out yet. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 3:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'FLEAA Mailing List' Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Exciting News Steven told me previously he would be there with his Tesla. I will email him the details on the BBB and reconfirm. By the way, there is a good chance we will be able to drive the Tesla on December 5th. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn Waggoner Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 3:17 PM To: FLEAA Mailing List Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Exciting News Did you ask him if he can bring it to BBB? --Original Message-- From: Andrew Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'FLEAA Mailing List' ReplyTo: FLEAA Mailing List Sent: Nov 16, 2008 3:07 PM Subject: [FLEAA] Exciting News Greetings Everyone, I received an email from Steven today. A Tesla will be exhibited at Midtown Miami during Art Basel on December 5th. Steven's Tesla is scheduled to be delivered.tomorrow!!! How's that for good news? Somebody's going to have a very merry Christmas :-) Andrew ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet
Jamie, This is hardball, and you need to start getting aggressive with FPL. First of all, forget phone calls. That won't get you anywhere. You need to start sending FPL strongly-worded letters by certified return-receipt mail. All of your communications with FPL from here on out should be in that mode of certified return-receipt mail. That establishes a legal record, admissible as evidence in court, of your communications with FPL. I am not a litigious person and have never sued anyone, but if I were in your position, I would consider initiating a class-action lawsuit against FPL. But you first need to write them multiple sequential letters, every two weeks, demanding your net-metering rights under Florida state law and PSC regulations. You have to give FPL the chance, and a reasonable amount of time, to respond and comply with the law. The only way you can prove in a court of law that you have done so is to write them multiple sequential letters, all by certified return-receipt mail, demanding that they comply with the law. If after 6-8 weeks worth of this letter-writing campaign you have not gotten satisfactory response and action from FPL, then you should threaten them with both a class-action lawsuit for violation of Florida law and PSC regulations and also referral to the state's attorney for criminal prosecution. If I were you, I would start contacting other PVers in FPL's territory all over the state to see if they are having the same problems as you in getting FPL to comply with Florida's net-metering law. Advise all of them to also repeatedly write FPL by certified return-receipt mail demanding their rights under Florida law. Start a user's forum discussion group in which you all compare notes and prepare your class-action lawsuit against FPL. FPL has a very long, sad, and bad history and reputation of greenwashing and hypocrisy of being against Renewable Energy, especially solar, here in their home state of Florida, when it comes to their customers, i.e. of distributed residential solar power. They fought very hard against and succeeded in blocking net-metering for years and years. FPL has been the single biggest impediment to progress on the commercialization of solar energy in Florida over the last decade. You are going to have fight for your legal rights and get tough with this 800-pound gorilla. As I said, this is hardball. The views expressed above are solely my own and don't reflect anyone else's. Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Jamie Saccullo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Florida EAA ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet Charles thanks for the info. I put a call into FPL and have not received a call back yet so I'll just keep calling. It is quite annoying to spend so much money on a PV system and get robbed every month. I just figured there was a delay with the PSC. All they really need to do is give me back my analog meter, but of course they won't do that. Showing someone my digital meter going backward isn't nearly as much fun as seeing the analog one go backwards. Jamie On Sep 4, 2008, at 1:02 AM, Charles Whalen wrote: You will never have an annual credit if you live in South Florida unless you have a huge system and never run your AC. You don't need AC at all in South Florida if you design your house correctly. I have met several such people with homes in South Florida who do not need and don't use AC and yet live and sleep cool and comfortably, including some green architects and some PV homes; I have been in one such home myself. There are people with PV homes in South Florida who *do* have annual credits. As for net-metering, what I can tell you from the legislator who authored and introduced it into the legislature is that it is a done deal, passed, signed into law by Governor Crist, finished, completed, and implemented by the Florida PSC. I was sitting in House Majority Leader Adam Hasner's office just a few days ago and had this very conversation with him. He said he was quite sure that the PSC had already implemented it but said he would check on that for me right there and proceeded to call up the head of the PSC, who confirmed it and immediately emailed Adam the relevant info, which Adam then forwarded onto me. Here is the information, from the head of the Florida PSC: --- Below is the link to the FPSC news release on approval of the net metering rule: http://www.floridapsc.com/home/news/index.aspx?id=370 25-6.065 Interconnection and Net Metering of Customer-Owned Renewable Generation * The Rule 25-6.065 will further encourage the development of customer-owned renewable generation by expanding eligibility under the rule to all renewable technologies, and increasing the capacity covered under the rule to 2 MW. * The rule provides more detailed interconnection
Re: [FLEAA] come see us jeremy!
I am hearing that the electric company will only give you credit towards future bills, not cash. Doesnt make sense if you produce your own electric and do not use the grid that you can only get a credit that you may never use. As mandated by Florida state law and already implemented by the Florida PSC, the way that net-metering works in Florida is that the electric utility will roll your net-positive kWh credit into the next month and continue to accumulate such credits until the end of 12 months, at which time the utility will pay you cash for the cumulative kWh credits you have built up over the previous year, *BUT*, valued and paid to you at the utility's avoided cost, which is around 4 cents/kWh, *not* at their retail price, which is around 12 cents/kWh. The way you earn the monthly net-positive credits (if indeed you have any) is on an implicit retail basis, valued at 12 cents/kWh, i.e. netted off against your usage at the same retail price (of 12 cents/kWh) that the utility charges; but if you have any cumulative net-positive kWh balance at the end of 12 months, that is paid to you in cash at the utility's wholesale avoided cost rate of 4 cents/kWh. This is also the case in some places in California. In other places in California, you simply lose any accumulated net-positive kWh credits at the end of 12 months if you don't use them up by sucking those kWh back out of the grid. In both cases, what California EV/PVers do is to have a big charging party in the 12th month of their annual billing cycle, whereby they invite all their EV buddies over to charge at their house for a week to suck all those kWh back out of the grid to get them back down to a cumulative net of 0 to end the 12-month cycle. - Original Message - From: Michael Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 5:19 PM Subject: [FLEAA] come see us jeremy! Michele and All, I will introduce myself first since I am new. I am an Electrical Engineer at Honeywell in Clearwater, FL. Looking to build my first EV soon for commuting purposes. So be on the lookout for questions from me and or any resources you all may have you can send my way. As far as your statement / Question Michelle about the storage and reselling of electricity. You are correct in the thinking that once the electricty passes through your meter you are charged for it and what you do with it is your business. If you wish to store it and sell it have at it if you can find someone to purchase it from you but keep in mind they can get it from the same electric company you stored it from. As far as using Wind and or Photovoltaic sources on your home and selling it to the power company. There are some forms available on their websites you can fill out. Get it signed by a licensed electrician and submit, some charge a processing fee. The Electric Company will then proceed to your home and install a metering device to measure any electricity that is sent back to the Power Grid. Any power that is sent to the grid well be credited to you either in your upcoming power bill or in a check. The Value of the electricity is calculated from the Current market values. I hope this information helps. ANY information helps! I'd love to set up soo many solar panels that it produces enough to sell to my neighbors and only charge enough to maintain the panels. then, to have neighbors link up with neighbors to hopefully get enough for the whole neighbor but yes, this is a utopian idea and could only work in the almost perfect situation (but one can dream) Come see us in tarpon springs on saturday! We are starting the conversion on the jetta and plans on how to restore the 1981 linx electrica. Michele, Id love to see gov't officials in EVs. other area counties are all interested in them and just are waiting for them to be available. Time to show and tell not just tell. I always hear how the vehciles will be available in 1, 2, 3 or 4 years... whats the hold up? I am hearing that the electric company will only give you credit towards future bills, not cash. Doesnt make sense if you produce your own electric and do not use the grid that you can only get a credit that you may never use. ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org -- ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet
You will never have an annual credit if you live in South Florida unless you have a huge system and never run your AC. You don't need AC at all in South Florida if you design your house correctly. I have met several such people with homes in South Florida who do not need and don't use AC and yet live and sleep cool and comfortably, including some green architects and some PV homes; I have been in one such home myself. There are people with PV homes in South Florida who *do* have annual credits. As for net-metering, what I can tell you from the legislator who authored and introduced it into the legislature is that it is a done deal, passed, signed into law by Governor Crist, finished, completed, and implemented by the Florida PSC. I was sitting in House Majority Leader Adam Hasner's office just a few days ago and had this very conversation with him. He said he was quite sure that the PSC had already implemented it but said he would check on that for me right there and proceeded to call up the head of the PSC, who confirmed it and immediately emailed Adam the relevant info, which Adam then forwarded onto me. Here is the information, from the head of the Florida PSC: --- Below is the link to the FPSC news release on approval of the net metering rule: http://www.floridapsc.com/home/news/index.aspx?id=370 25-6.065 Interconnection and Net Metering of Customer-Owned Renewable Generation * The Rule 25-6.065 will further encourage the development of customer-owned renewable generation by expanding eligibility under the rule to all renewable technologies, and increasing the capacity covered under the rule to 2 MW. * The rule provides more detailed interconnection requirements by incorporating nationally recognized standards for interconnection and safety-IEEE 1547, IEEE 1547.1, and UL 1741-as well as explicit due dates for action by the utility and customer. * System size eligibility is broken into three Tiers: 1) up to 10kW; 2) greater than 10kW up to 100kW; and 3) greater than 100kW up to 2MW. * Tier 1 incorporates systems addressed in past FPSC rules, and will largely capture residential customers. Tier 1 systems are exempt from several fees and obligations applied to the Tier 2 or 3 customers, including: application fees, liability insurance coverage, expenses related to manual disconnect switches, and interconnection study charges (Tier 3 only). * The rule requires net metering for customer-owned renewable generation systems interconnected pursuant to the rule. * Credit for excess energy sent to the grid during any billing period will be carried forward and applied to the next billing period to offset the customer's consumption. At the end of the year any remaining excess energy credits will be purchased by the IOU's at their avoided cost rate. * IOUs will be responsible for installing, at their expense, any meters required to enable net metering of excess energy. * The rule states that any Renewable Energy Certificates associated with a customer's self-generation will be retained by the customer. If an additional meter is needed to measure total energy generated by the customer in order to obtain the RECs, the customer will be responsible for those costs. The customer may negotiate with the IOU for the purchase of the customer's RECs. --- Jamie, sounds like what you've got is a problem with FPL dragging their feet and not complying with the law. I would suggest that you first take this up with FPL, inform them that they are in non-compliance with the law, forward them this information, including my entire email regarding my conversation with Majority Leader Hasner and his phone call with the head of the PSC, and then if you don't get a satisfactory response from FPL but still just more foot-dragging and obfuscation, you should report FPL's non-compliance to the PSC. That is completely unacceptable for FPL to refuse to comply with the law. Majority Leader Hasner and I specifically discussed FPL's past behavior and how they had dragged their feet and fought against net-metering for years. I can't say this any louder: NET-METERING IS THE LAW OF THE LAND HERE IN FLORIDA! FPL had better get into compliance immediately If you do not get this resolved by FPL, and then the PSC, if necessary, please let me know so that I can take this up with Majority Leader Hasner, who is the leader of Renewable Energy and PV initiatives in the Florida House of Representatives. Please document and keep records of all of your communications with FPL. As I said, feel free to forward this email in its entirety to FPL. Good luck! Charles Whalen Florida EAA - Original Message - From: Jamie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:59 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet I received a letter a few months ago from FPL informing me about the change in the net metering
Re: [FLEAA] Upcoming Events Meetings (Addendum)
Hi everyone, There is only one addition/addendum to the Upcoming Events Meetings post that I sent out last night. That is Sarasota's 4th Annual Efest Green Living Music Arts Festival on Saturday-Sunday November 15-16, the details of which you can see in the amended Upcoming Events Meetings list below. The Florida EAA's webmaster, Katie Robinson, will be getting this list up on the Upcoming Events webpage (http://floridaeaa.org/modules/content/index.php?id=5) of the Florida EAA website (www.floridaeaa.org) sometime in the next few days. Thanks to everyone for all of your hard work, efforts, enthusiasm, and commitment to EVs in making all of these events, meetings, and EV activities happen! And thanks to Katie Robinson for her great work on the Florida EAA website! Charles Whalen Florida EAA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Upcoming Events Meetings == Saturday August 30, 9am-noon - Polk County EV get-together and organizational meeting Polk County Sheriffs Office Community Room Polk County Sheriffs Office 3635 Avenue G NW Winter Haven, FL 33880-6200 Contact: Al Lococo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday September 6, 10am-noon - Suncoast EVA monthly meeting Black Bay Technologies 712B Wesley Ave. Tarpon Springs, FL 34689 Contacts: George Keramas Tel: 727-741-7400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.blackbayev.com Michael Clark Tel: 813-465-9957 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday-Sunday September 6-7, 9am-6pm New Smyrna Beach Green Fair Riverside Park, New Smyrna Beach, FL www.greenfairatriversidepark.com Contact: Alicia Page Tel: 561-776-8600 or 561-914-1717 [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is an exhibitor fee of $350 to $550 to exhibit at this event. Larry Wexler and Steve Clunn will both be there with their EVs and have each paid the exhibitors fees. If you want to bring your EV and are not promoting a conversion business or any other EV business, either for yourself or anyone else, you might be able to get the exhibitor's fee waived, according to the event organizer, Alicia Page. But if you are engaged in any type of EV related business or are going to direct people to others where they can purchase such an EV, components, or have a conversion done, etc., then according to Alicia you will have to pay the exhibitor's fee. Contact Alicia for more information. Saturday September 13, 9:30am-noon Florida EAA monthly meeting Coastal Tire Auto 35 SW 1st Ave. Boca Raton, FL 33432 Contact: Shawn Waggoner Tel: 561-543-9223 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.floridaeaa.org Saturday September 20, 10am-noon -- Southwest Florida EAA monthly meeting Fruitville Public Library (10am-11am) 100 Coburn Road Sarasota, FL 34240 Alternative Automotive of Sarasota (11am-noon) 979 S. Packinghouse Road Sarasota, FL 34232 Contacts: John Batchelder Tel: 941-371-6514 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve Walters Tel: 941-379-4321 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday-Sunday September 20-21 - ProEV's Electric Impreza will be racing in Florida Regional Competition Moroso Motorsports Park (www.morosomotorsportspark.com) Jupiter, FL Contact: Cliff Rassweiler, ProEV [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ProEV.com Friday October 3, 9am-4pm -- AFV Odyssey Day Workshop (Day 1) Florida Solar Energy Center 1679 Clearlake Road Cocoa, FL 32922 Contact: Bill Young Tel: 321-638-1443 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/ The focus of this year's AFV Odyssey Day Workshop at FSEC is on biodiesel. All EVs are welcome to exhibit at the AFV Workshop at FSEC. http://www.clean-cities.org/pdf/FSEC-AFV-Odyssey_Workshop-2008.pdf Saturday October 4, 9am-4pm - AFV Odyssey Day Workshop (Day 2) Car Show Central Florida Auto Dealers Association Professional Automotive Training Center Seminole Community College 100 Weldon Blvd. Sanford, FL 32773 Contact: Prof. Jason Gaschel Office: 407-708-2278 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.scc-fl.edu/automotive/ EVs will be a feature of this year's Annual SCC Car Show Saturday October 4, 10am-noon - Suncoast EVA monthly meeting Black Bay Technologies 712B Wesley Ave. Tarpon Springs, FL 34689 Contacts: George Keramas Tel: 727-741-7400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.blackbayev.com Michael Clark Tel: 813-465-9957 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday October 11, 11am-4pm --- 4th Annual Space Coast Progressive Fest Eau Gallie Civic Center 1551 Highland Ave. Melbourne, FL 32935 Contact: Jay Wherley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday October 11, 9:30am-noon Florida EAA monthly meeting Coastal Tire Auto 35 SW 1st Ave. Boca Raton, FL 33432 Contact: Shawn Waggoner Tel: 561-543-9223 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.floridaeaa.org Saturday-Sunday October 11-12 --- ProEV's
[FLEAA] Upcoming Events Meetings
Hi all, The Upcoming Events Meetings list gets larger and larger ... and harder and harder to keep up with, especially with all the new chapters and EV activities now all over the state! ... Which is a *good* problem to have! ... Also known as SUCCESS! EVs and the public's interest in them are clearly catching on and gaining tremendous momentum here in Florida! The expansion of our membership and chapters is exploding with exponential growth. Please let me know of any mistakes, errors, edits, additions, etc., to the event meeting list below, and I'll send out any correction, if necessary. Lots of great activities to choose from all over the state! Best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday August 30, 9am-noon - Polk County EV get-together and organizational meeting Polk County Sheriffs Office Community Room Polk County Sheriffs Office 3635 Avenue G NW Winter Haven, FL 33880-6200 Contact: Al Lococo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday September 6, 10am-noon - Suncoast EVA monthly meeting Black Bay Technologies 712B Wesley Ave. Tarpon Springs, FL 34689 Contacts: George Keramas Tel: 727-741-7400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.blackbayev.com Michael Clark Tel: 813-465-9957 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday-Sunday September 6-7, 9am-6pm New Smyrna Beach Green Fair Riverside Park, New Smyrna Beach, FL www.greenfairatriversidepark.com Contact: Alicia Page Tel: 561-776-8600 or 561-914-1717 [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is an exhibitor fee of $350 to $550 to exhibit at this event. Larry Wexler and Steve Clunn will both be there with their EVs and have each paid the exhibitors fees. If you want to bring your EV and are not promoting a conversion business or any other EV business, either for yourself or anyone else, you might be able to get the exhibitor's fee waived, according to the event organizer, Alicia Page. But if you are engaged in any type of EV related business or are going to direct people to others where they can purchase such an EV, components, or have a conversion done, etc., then according to Alicia you will have to pay the exhibitor's fee. Contact Alicia for more information. Saturday September 13, 9:30am-noon Florida EAA monthly meeting Coastal Tire Auto 35 SW 1st Ave. Boca Raton, FL 33432 Contact: Shawn Waggoner Tel: 561-543-9223 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.floridaeaa.org Saturday September 20, 10am-noon -- Southwest Florida EAA monthly meeting Fruitville Public Library (10am-11am) 100 Coburn Road Sarasota, FL 34240 Alternative Automotive of Sarasota (11am-noon) 979 S. Packinghouse Road Sarasota, FL 34232 Contacts: John Batchelder Tel: 941-371-6514 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve Walters Tel: 941-379-4321 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday-Sunday September 20-21 - ProEV's Electric Impreza will be racing in Florida Regional Competition Moroso Motorsports Park (www.morosomotorsportspark.com) Jupiter, FL Contact: Cliff Rassweiler, ProEV [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ProEV.com Friday October 3, 9am-4pm -- AFV Odyssey Day Workshop (Day 1) Florida Solar Energy Center 1679 Clearlake Road Cocoa, FL 32922 Contact: Bill Young Tel: 321-638-1443 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/ The focus of this year's AFV Odyssey Day Workshop at FSEC is on biodiesel. All EVs are welcome to exhibit at the AFV Workshop at FSEC. http://www.clean-cities.org/pdf/FSEC-AFV-Odyssey_Workshop-2008.pdf Saturday October 4, 9am-4pm - AFV Odyssey Day Workshop (Day 2) Car Show Central Florida Auto Dealers Association Professional Automotive Training Center Seminole Community College 100 Weldon Blvd. Sanford, FL 32773 Contact: Prof. Jason Gaschel Office: 407-708-2278 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.scc-fl.edu/automotive/ EVs will be a feature of this year's Annual SCC Car Show Saturday October 4, 10am-noon - Suncoast EVA monthly meeting Black Bay Technologies 712B Wesley Ave. Tarpon Springs, FL 34689 Contacts: George Keramas Tel: 727-741-7400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.blackbayev.com Michael Clark Tel: 813-465-9957 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday October 11, 11am-4pm --- 4th Annual Space Coast Progressive Fest Eau Gallie Civic Center 1551 Highland Ave. Melbourne, FL 32935 Contact: Jay Wherley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday October 11, 9:30am-noon Florida EAA monthly meeting Coastal Tire Auto 35 SW 1st Ave. Boca Raton, FL 33432 Contact: Shawn Waggoner Tel: 561-543-9223 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.floridaeaa.org Saturday-Sunday October 11-12 --- ProEV's Electric Impreza will be racing in Florida Regional Competition Moroso Motorsports Park (www.morosomotorsportspark.com) Jupiter, FL Contact: Cliff
Re: [FLEAA] plan on attending
Al, If you want to pay to flatbed one of my RAV4-EVs up there and back (must be flatbedded, no tow dollies please), I'd be happy to ship one up there to you for your meeting. If you want an in-depth explanation (including a lot of technical battery stuff) on why it's not a good idea for the car to be driven up there at this time of the year and at this stage of the batteries' life (coming up on 7 years), plus the amount of time it would take to do so, etc., I'd be happy to provide a very detailed explanation. So I guess it really depends on how badly you want to have a RAV4-EV there. If you want one badly enough to pay to flatbed one up there and back, I'd be happy to oblige in support of your efforts. I would also drive my Honda Civic (non-hybrid, regular old gasser, sits unused, so needs a workout anyway) up there to your meeting for a daytrip up and back. Otherwise, on a separate but related topic, Shawn Waggoner and I have informally discussed and kicked around some ideas about the possibility of staging large FLEAA events in Central Florida/Space Coast/west coast areas during the wintertime. All very preliminary, and I can't and shouldn't get out ahead of established processes and normal channels for such communications and decisions, but I'll just say that I am very much in favor of seeing the FLEAA sponsor more such big events in Central Florida/Space Coast/west coast areas, as we had done with Space Coast Clean Cities Coordinator and founding FLEAA member Bill Young in working with him to co-sponsor FSEC's SunDay Challenge last October, which was a great success, especially thanks to the many folks there in the Central Florida/Space Coast/west coast areas who brought their EVs and participated (including yourself). The more we can time-shift such big events into the cooler months of November through March, the easier it will be -- just speaking for myself personally, with 7 year old battery packs and very exothermic battery chemistry -- to drive one of my RAV4-EVs such long distances. I could probably make a couple of extended road trips during the cooler months and would like to see some smaller events (including even just regular FLEAA regional chapter meetings) scattered around the Central Florida, Space Coast, and west coast areas consolidated in time in a coordinated fashion with a big, major FLEAA-sponsored event in one of those areas, so that I could attend a few such events with one of my RAV4-EVs on a single road trip spread out over 12 days or so. Just my 2 cents worth of thoughts for today. :-) Charles Whalen Two 2002 Toyota RAV4-EVs Delray Beach, FL [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Al Lococo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] plan on attending Mike, Thanks forr the support. It would be nice, and I know this asking a lot, to have a RAV4 EV, an E-Box and a Plug-In Prius there also. No need to explain, if this is not possible, I undersstand. On the other hand, if anyone can figure out how to get one or another of thesee here, let me know. I would be happy to provide overnight accomodations for a RAV4 EV driver aor an E Box driver. I have two double, spared rooms. I have a 120V, 20 amp outlet and one 120 Volt, 30 amp outlet. I do not have a convienient 220 volt outlet. Andrew has gotten a 220 volt outlet set up for use in Lake Wales which is less than 30 miles away. Cheers, Al Lococo www.evprogress.org Think Globally, Act Locally! Plug-in, we have the technology, the NiMH powered RAV4 EV is the proof. - Original Message - From: Michael Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 1:06 PM Subject: [FLEAA] plan on attending Be happy to attend and help out! ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org This is for those who have expressed an interest in meeting others who share your interest in the progress and development in Plug-In Electric Vehicles in Polk County. I am proposing a meeting: at the Polk County Sheriffs Office Community Room. on Saturday August 30, at 9:00 am. Polk County Sheriffs Office 3635 Avenue G NW Winter Haven, FL 33880-6200 http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Winter+Havenstate=FLaddress=3635+Avenue+G+NWzipcode=33880-6200country=USlatitude=28.02958longitude=-81.771176geocode=ADDRESS The Purpose of the meeting will be to get to know each other and decide how this group will function. This will include the selection of Officers such as President and Secretary if necessary. We will decide if we want to be affiliated with the National Electric Automobile Association. I will have my Electric Picup Truck there. If you have ideas for the agenda of this first meeting please reply. Let us all know will you plan to attend. Feel free to introduce yourself to the group
Re: [FLEAA] plan on attending
fans running continuously -- for the battery temps to very slowly, gradually come down from 120F to 101F, which was still the ambient air temperature at midnight! Yes, it was still 101 degrees F at half past midnight, when we wrapped up the event. Hugh was well conditioned to the heat, but my body was suffering like my batteries, although probably not as much as them. I had to go to the pizza place next door to the theater every half hour to buy a huge king-size drink, full of ice, just to keep myself hydrated and from getting heat stroke. (I can only imagine what it's like for people who live in Las Vegas, Phoenix, Tuscon, and Baghdad, who have to live with 120 degree F temperatures every day for 3-4 months of the year.) Of course there was no way to get the battery temps lower than 101F, because the fans are just blowing ambient air over the batteries, and ambient was 101F, even at midnight, and you obviously can't get the battery temps below ambient. One way to think about what this does to your battery pack is to make an analogy with the human body. Every time you subject your battery pack to an extended heat-soaking above about, say, 105F, it is like the human body having a minor heart attack. The damage is permanent -- a permanent degradation. And such damage is additive and cumulative. Every time you have a minor heart attack, you weaken the heart a little bit more and further shorten the life of the heart, and thus the life of the human, a little bit, maybe like taking a few years off of your life every time you have a minor heart attack. Similarly with batteries, NiMH specifically in this case, every time you subject them to extended (6+ hours) heat-soaking above about 105F, you are probably taking something like, say, 3 months off the life of the batteries. What I have observed with the PEVE EV-95 NiMH batteries in the RAV4-EV is that the battery temps will typically rise to about 15 degrees F above ambient during charging, especially in the latter stages of the charge. Normally this is not a problem when we charge here at home (by programmed timer-charge) in the late-night/early-morning hours from 4am to 8am, which of course is the coolest time of the day, when the (summertime) ambient is around 78F or so. So the battery temps only get up to around 93F. No problem, no heat-soak stress at that temperature level. Charles Whalen Two 2002 Toyota RAV4-EVs in Delray Beach, FL - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: EVs for Sale DL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 1:19 AM Subject: Re: Portrait of a damaged RAV4-EV pack / Electron, a perfect pack at 47K miles Doug, Once again, many thanks for this! Fantastic! Very useful! Great work! Keep 'em comin'. I have a lot of experience with charging RAVs in a year-round hot climate. In my opinion and experience, right around 88 degrees F is that threshold above which I believe you are doing some permanent degradation to your pack and shortening its life a little bit every time you charge it above that ambient temperature threshold. I try to avoid doing so at all costs. Sometimes that has been impossible due to tight, difficult circumstances of timing on long-distance road trips, with very limited opportunities to charge, during the hotter months. I have cringed at the heat-soak stress I have put on these packs on a few such occasions. With 6.5 year old packs, I now try avoid, as much as possible, doing any such long-distance road trips during the hotter months (which is 6 months out of the year here). The only reasons I have taken such long-distance road trips in the first place have been in support of the cause [i.e. to exhibit at important events and educate the public (which here knows nothing about EVs and has never seen them nor ever even heard of them)]. I loaned out my HHT/Scantool 13 months ago and have not yet asked for it back. It's actually out there somewhere on the west coast. But as of 13 months ago, the two packs were both split between 6 mOhm and 7 mOhm, one pack about 50-50 between 6 and 7 and the other pack creeping closer to 7, about a 2/3 to 1/3 split between 7 and 6, respectively. The 3.3 years I have had these cars has been a trial-and-error learning experience about battery care, listening to sometimes conflicting advice from many different RAV4-EV owners (who've owned their cars longer than I have owned mine), trying different things based on differing advice, and eventually developing my own ideas and beliefs about battery care the more I have come to understand these batteries. I have put the packs through some unintentional extended abuse during this learning process. It is a truly amazing testament to PEVE's quality, reliability, and durability that these batteries are just so darn good that they can take a fair amount of abuse over time and yet still hold up so well. It is an old adage in the EV community that most EV newbies kill their first pack
[FLEAA] west coast chapter information
Hi everyone over there on the west coast. I'm getting a number of inquiries from people on the west coast asking about any Florida EAA activities over there. I've been sending out the following information, which I've kind of pieced together from some emails and list posts in my archives. Could you guys over there, especially Michael Clark and John Batchelder, please let me know if the following addresses, contact info, and times dates are correct? Thanks best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Florida Electric Auto Association, Tampa Bay Chapter Michael Clark, Director Clearwater, FL tel: 727-534-0201 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meeting location: Black Bay Technologies 712B Wesley Ave. Tarpon Springs, FL 34689 Contact: George Keramas tel: 727-741-7400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Next meeting: 10am Saturday, August 23, 2008 Florida Electric Auto Association, Southwest Florida Chapter --- John Batchelder, Director Sarasota, FL tel: 941-371-6514 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meeting location: Fruitville Public Library 100 Coburn Road Sarasota, FL 34240 Next meeting: 10am Saturday, August 16, 2008 ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Anyone interested in getting involved in a race project?
Jeremiah, I corresponded several months ago with an electrical engineer, Ken Elder, in St. Petersburg who is building an electric motorcycle. I don't think it's a racing bike that he's building, but you might want to try Ken anyway for his expertise on the EV side, as you said you're looking for, especially since he's local to you there in the Tampa Bay area. His email address is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A bit further afield, across the state on the east coast, in the West Palm Beach area specifically, both Jeff Patterson in Jupiter ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and Florida EAA President Shawn Waggoner ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) in Lake Worth have 5-10 years experience in building electric motorcycles. As for specific expertise in building electric racing motorcycles, the two best in the world are: 1) NEDRA (www.nedra.com) President Shawn Lawless ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) from Youngstown, Ohio, who is a good friend of the Florida EAA, comes to our annual Battery Beach Burnout (www.batterybeach.com) EV racing event in late January, is a frequent visitor to Florida, especially to the Keys, and has many friends all over Florida. Shawn holds numerous electric motorcycle drag racing world records. 2) Bill Dube ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) from Denver, Colorado, has the fastest electric motorcycle in the world, KillaCycle (www.killacycle.com), which does something like 0-60 in .9 seconds and the quarter in 7.8 seconds and 160 mph. (I've lost track and don't follow the racing scene very closely.) Bill and his team are also good friends of the Florida EAA. Bill came down here and was the keynote speaker for our Battery Beach Burnout event in January 2007 and was just down here again a few months ago, in fact right there in Tampa, where he was attending the Advanced Automotive Battery Conference. Florida EAA President Shawn Waggoner in particular has close relationships with both Shawn Lawless and Bill Dube team. Good luck with your project! Charles Whalen Florida EAA Delray Beach, FL [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Jeremiah Johnson To: FLEAA Mailing List Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Anyone interested in getting involved in a race project? Sorry, I forgot that they added our email list to the whole florida thing, and that there were people on this list that didn't know me. Let me give a little more details to get rid of some confusion. I am a professional motorcycle racer and I have been working towards building an EV motorcycle that will compete in high performance with my ICE bike. So this will be a race motorcycle, not a race car. I have one of my professional race bikes that is in need of a motor, so I am going to build that one. It already has top of the line Ohlins suspension components. I have a sponsor that is financially helping me to make the build, I am looking for some people that might have some more expertise in the EV portion of it that might be interested in being part of this. Once again, thank you for your time. Jeremiah #64 http://johnson64.com ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] The Resergence of the EVI
Joseph, I have spoken with a few instructors at MAST about this over the last 15 months or so, including of course Dr. Wafa Khalil and a couple of her colleagues. The answer is that no, they don't have the funding; they don't have the space to work on cars; and furthermore, they don't have any instructors there with the requisite mechanical skills, like welding, etc. As its name implies, MAST is a highly specialized school focused on maritime and science technology. Unfortunately, the school does not include a traditional auto mechanics class as part of its core focus and curriculum. But that is what you really need as a prerequisite for an EV program at a high school -- an auto shop class -- because then you've got the tools, machines, and the work space that is all required to do conversions. My understanding is that most high school EV programs seem to start out as non-core curriculum after-school club type programs that the conventional ICE auto mechanics instructor heads up. Then after a few years, if the after-school club is successful and if the auto shop instructor has the backing and support of the school's principal (which is the most important factor) as well as that of the local school district, then the EV program can be incorporated into the curriculum as an actual course (but not without a lot of bureaucratic hurdles to surmount). It's a long and difficult process which requires the right set of circumstances and all the stars in the heavens to be aligned just right. MAST has currently got a principal who is very supportive of renewable energy and alternative transportation, including EVs, plus of course a number of very supportive instructors (albeit without the requisite mechanical skills), but none of the rest of elements are there for an EV program at MAST. I have spoken with Dr. Khalil and her colleagues about the amount of money that would be required to build an adjacent garage facility on the school property; I think we might have estimated that it would cost at least a half-million dollars. Dr. Khalil and her colleagues were very pessimistic about the the prospects of being able to get any such funding. After numerous conversations with a couple of different teachers who would nevertheless really like to see it happen, our mutual conclusion is that it is probably not going to happen. There are other personal/personnel factors as well (which would be inappropriate for me to publicly discuss) that make it highly unlikely that such a program would be able to get off the ground at MAST in the amount of time it would take (at least a few years) to see the effort through to fruition and the continuity that would require. Charles - Original Message - From: Joseph T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 1:00 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] The Resergence of the EVI Charles, does MAST have any funding yet? Or a place to work on the car? Has anything been organized? They could start this school year if nothing gets in the way. ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] has anyone tried different tires like the one the RAV4 EVuses?
Both of my RAV4-EVs had one of the two standard LRR stock tires for the car -- the Yokohama AVS-EF1, with the other standard LRR stock tire for the car being the Bridgestone Ecopia E02. With the Yok LRRs, both of my RAV4-EVs had a range of 130 miles on the highway and around 110 miles in city driving. Problem was, however, that my front end was out of alignment on both cars, which was causing uneven/excessive wear to the passenger side front tire on each car. The Yok LRRs are getting increasingly harder to source and obtain, because they (and the Bridgestone Ecopia E02's as well) were only made for one and only one car -- the RAV4-EV. So rather than spending a lot of time chasing all over California to every tire distributor in the state to try to find those Yoks, I decided to just try some standard non-LRR tires for the car. I went on and made my decision based on Darell Dickey's excellent RAV4-EV FAQ, which lists a number of substitute standard non-LRR tires on it. I consulted with FLEAA Secretary and meeting site host Bob Fuerstenau of Coastal Tire in Boca Raton and went over the list with him. Given the premature wear on the LRRs (which is a common problem with LRR tires in general), Bob looked up wear ratings and various such characteristics for me for the RAV4-EV non-LRR substitute tires on Darell's list. The best wear rating was for a Continental tire, I forget the exact model number now. I read users' comments on Darell's FAQ. There was only one RAV4-EV user comment for this particular tire, and the person claimed little-to-no loss of range. I didn't feel too comfortable relying on only one such user comment, i.e. that only one RAV4-EV owner had tried these tires. There were other substitute tires with more RAV4-EV user comments claiming little-to-no range loss, and I would have felt more comfortable going with those, but their wear ratings were lower. So I decided to take a gamble on the one single user data point claim of little-to-no range loss for the Contis and decided to go with the higher wear rating. After a couple of months of use, I can tell you that my experience has been a 30% loss of range vs. the Yok LRRs. And I've really got the perfect controlled test conditions, with two identical cars of the same model year, both of which had the Yok LRRs for over 3 years, both getting 110 city / 130 highway, and now the one with the new non-LRR Contis is getting 30% less, about a 30 mile range drop. I have often read that LRR tires generally add 15% to your range. That may be true in general or in some cases, but in my case it is making a difference of twice that, namely about a 30% greater range with good LRRs. And BTW, I *did* have Bob's shop do the much-needed front end alignments on both cars. Just thought I'd share that experience, which you may find useful. Overall, I'm not displeased at all, because it has indeed been a very useful learning experience for both me and Bob that we can share with the rest of you on the important advantage of good LRR tires. But let me also emphasize that you should also expect a shorter life with LRR tires, probably about half the life of non-LRR tires with twice the wear rating. The shorter range car with the non-LRR Contis has now become an exclusive in-town commuter, while the other car with the LRR Yoks serves as the longer-range highway driver. Many thanks to Bob Fuerstenau for the great job he did in helping me with all of this! As I said, it has been a very interesting and useful learning experience for both of us. Charles Whalen Florida EAA Delray Beach, FL - Original Message - From: Bernie Crews To: 'Al Lococo' ; 'FLEAA Mailing List' Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 12:53 PM Subject: [FLEAA] has anyone tried different tires like the one the RAV4 EVuses? Just a thought. Has anyone used anything other than standard tires? In Al's pdf http://evnut.com/docs/flyers/rav4ev_flyer_arb.pdf the tires were specified. Here is the link to the tires specified for the RAV4 in Al's email. http://www.bridgestone-firestone.com/news/index_enviro_news.asp?id=2003/030326a I wonder how much more miles we could expect? Any ideas? Bernie History is full of people who out of fear, ignorance, or lust of power have destroyed knowledge of immeasurable value which truly belongs to us all. We must not let it happen again. -Carl Sagan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Lococo Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:28 PM To: FLEAA Mailing List Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Fw: Article #1 Harvey, Everything I know about the subject I learned from Charles. I believe this is an important topic, so I have created a handout that I use at events. It is my effort to inform the public. I have two documents that I print on both sides of the same page. It makes a single piece of paper that in my opinion tells the story succinctly as possible
Re: [FLEAA] The Resergence of the EVI
Ted, Along those same lines, you might want to try this high school teacher whom I met back in February at MAST Academy's Contemporary Issues in Science Symposium, focused on Renewable Energy and Alternative Transportation, that was held at Fairchild Tropical Garden in Coral Gables (same place where we had the Fairchild Challenge event with Chelsea Sexton that you came to), which both Allan Miller and I attended: Greg Foote Instructor/Director Lely High School Construction Academy 1 Lely High School Blvd. Naples, FL 34113-7899 phone: 239-377-2108 fax: 239-377-2001 home: 239-793-4650 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg told me that he would be interested in starting an electric car program at his high school but that there don't seem to be any resources of knowledge and people doing EV stuff over in the Naples/Fort Myers area of Southwestern Florida. Well, that was then, but it shows how far we've come just since February -- 5 months! -- that we've now got an entire group of people over there (all you guys!) who are getting organized doing EV activities. Actually, I don't think there has ever been a void or lack of people converting EVs in the Naples/Ft. Myers area, because there *has*, for a long time in fact; it's just that people over there may not have known about each other's efforts but now are starting to communicate with each other thanks to the great work you all are doing over there getting things organized! Anyway, maybe you can try this high school instructor in Naples, Greg Foote, and put him in touch with Monte Hamsher. They might be able to collaborate on starting up EV programs in their respective high schools. Best regards, Charles Whalen Delray Beach - Original Message - From: Edward Ellyatt To: listserv@floridaeaa.org ; Al Lococo Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] The Resergence of the EVI Al, Bobbie and I enjoyed seeing your Ranger. I was really looking forward to it. Good news, Monte Hamsher the automotive teacher at Lee County High Tech Central has gotten approval from management to start an electric car program at his school. TED - Original Message - From: Al Lococo To: FLEAA Mailing List Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] The Resergence of the EVI Fran, Thank you for the update on your plans. You and your family have undertaken a very difficult and expensive commitment. We all respect and appreciate your efforts however many bumps you may find in the road along the way. We all wish you the best. Each of my posts ends with my web site address so that should not be hard to find. I am constructing an event page for Sarasota on my website. The document presented to the Commissioners will be posted there, along with pictures and links, for anyone interested, by the end of the day. It can also be seen here posted Monday, July 21, 2008 7:59 AM with subject [FLEAA] Sarasota City Commissioners. Cheers, Al Lococo www.evprogress.org - Original Message - From: Fran Sullivan-Fahs To: FLEAA Mailing List Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:37 AM Subject: [FLEAA] The Resergence of the EVI No, folks we don't have a date for our conversion yet, but we are moving the bulk of the rescheduled trip to Jan./Feb. of 2009. We hope to have our Prius converted way before then, but this will help us have lots of time to line up accomodations, media, etc. Before all else, I want to say how much I appreciate you, the members of FLEAA who have been so supportive over the weeks and months with encouragement and ideas. And for those of you who took up the slack and gave excellent presentations in Sarasota with Michele Mician, I give another heartfelt thanks! That commitment was really weighing on my mind, and, as the date grew closer, I kept hoping that we could make it. Andrew Roddy called to let me know that he would do the long trip to have his super EBox there. I heard that Al Lococo was there with his wonderful truck that has logged over 2,000 miles. Also Al brought a presentation that is so very well written. Can you repost that, Al, for any members who may have missed it the first time around? And could your repost the address of your website that has many more of your clear and interesting EV writings? Also, James Parish participated with his plug-in Prius. We look forward to getting together with James at the rescheduled EVI. I know there were more EVers there (but I don't know names), and I thank you also. I am including below a copy of part of Michele Mician's thank you to members who were there. This shows the great job you did! Hi all! THANK YOU for all of your efforts. It was great to see so many interested parties. I think you really got the word out and now people know there is a FLEAA! So much fun. Take Care, Michele Michele mician, MS CITY OF SARASOTA
Re: [FLEAA] Sarasota Photos
Al, Great webpage, nice write-up, excellent photos, and great presentation!!! Congratulations to all involved -- including especially the organizer, Michele Mician of the City of Sarasota -- on the great success of the city commission's hearing and its result!!! Special kudos and honor to those who drove such a long way to get their EVs to this very important, high-profile event and hearing, including James Parish with his plug-in Prius, Al Lococo with his electric Ranger, and I have to say what a really heroic effort our FLEAA Public Relations Director Andrew Roddy made to drive his AC Propulsion eBox all the way across the state, charting new territory and blazing new trails, as he has been doing ever since he got his car less than a year ago! By the way, Andrew must barely have time to catch his breath between such major events from one side of the state to the other, as he exhibited his eBox at the highly successful, well attended, packed-house WKtEC movie showing hosted by WINZ 940 AM South Florida Radio host Nicole Sandler in Miramar (north of Miami) just 3 days before the big event in Sarasota, stopped by my place to charge late Friday night into the wee hours of Saturday morning, went home for a shower and change of clothes, and then headed off on his cross-state EV adventure to Sarasota. As I said, a truly heroic effort! Congrats again to all! Best regards, Charles Whalen Delray Beach - Original Message - From: Al Lococo To: FLEAA Mailing List Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:42 PM Subject: [FLEAA] Sarasota Photos Folks, Here is my wifes photos and my observations about the event. http://www.evprogress.org/Sarasota/City%20of%20Sarasota%20Event.htm Cheers, Al Lococo www.evprogress.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] Any Chevy S10 conversions for sale?
I'm checking on behalf of a potential buyer in the Keys who contacted me. Jerry Wagner? Ken Watkins? I seem to recall that both of you guys are interested in selling your Chevy S10 conversions. Are they still for sale? If so, could you please contact me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and let me know: 1) the selling price? 2) the range at 45 mph (on flat terrain) to a 50% depth of discharge (and no deeper than that, please!, ... although it would definitely be relevant to know if you've been taking it deeper than that on a regular basis)? 3) the age and condition of the batteries, and whether flooded or sealed AGMs? Thanks, Charles Whalen Delray Beach, FL [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] Anyone need to charge an EV in downtown St. Pete on a regular basis?
Does anyone need to charge an EV at 208V (up to 32A) in downtown St. Petersburg on a regular basis? ... Like, say, at least once a week? We got an offer to host a charging station in downtown St. Pete from an architect/developer/builder who is trying to get extra LEED credits for an energy efficient building they are building there in downtown St. Pete. They would like to know how often a 208V charging station there would be used. We've got a couple of different options that we'll explore with them. I know that Cliff Ruffner has an EV and lives quite close to downtown St. Pete. Is there anyone else within his EV's driving range of downtown St. Pete who would be driving it in there on a regular basis if there was a charging station there? Not sure of the exact address, but I can find out and let you know if it's relevant to you. By the way, I've got at least a dozen people whom I've got to get back to on various aspects, stages, and matters relating to charging stations, ... some from just a few days ago, others from a few weeks ago, and some even from months ago. Arrrggg! Can't keep up. One excuse after another. I was in the hospital last weekend and am recovering and trying to get back up to speed. Hope to get back to some of you in the next few days. For Rob in Orlando, it's been months, actually off-and-on like 2 years! I'll get around to it eventually. Thanks for all your patience and help and the initiative that many of you have taken! Still planning/hoping to get a comprehensive website up in the next couple months. Thanks best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA Delray Beach, FL [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Fw: Article #1
Harvey, I'm sorry. I'm swamped. I have given this story many, many, many times. There is no way I can do so again at this time. Please come to the next FLEAA meeting and I will give it to you verbally at that time. Thanks. Charles - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Fw: Article #1 Thanks Ted. Charles W. and Al Lococo (Ted referred me to you both.) Can you either of you please connect the dots or expand the history and accuracy of this story. When I give a verbal presentation on the whole battery patent story, I want to be assured of the accuracy of what I communicate. Thanks. Harvey Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.5/1569 - Release Date: 7/23/2008 1:31 PM ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] AM WINZ 940 Interview
Harvey, I also passed the contact along to Fran Sullivan-Fahs in Tallahassee, who is the coordinator for FLEAA's North Florida subchapter, as Dick is in Fran's territory up there in the Panhandle. I think Fran was going to contact Dick, so you should check with her. Charles - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] AM WINZ 940 Interview Andrew: Did a you or anyone follow up on Dick Schaller? I also E-mailed an attachment which described his whole operation. He was very enthuised about establishing a relationship with us. Harvey ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Eyewitness 12 news electric cars
Hi James, I don't have cable but just OTA. Do you know which local network affiliate that is -- ABC, NBC, or CBS? (I get all the West Palm local network affiliate stations, but Channel 9 doesn't correspond to any of them OTA, which are 25 for ABC, 5 for NBC, and 12 for CBS.) Thanks, Charles - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 8:56 PM Subject: [FLEAA] Eyewitness 12 news electric cars hi fellow FLEAA members. just wanted to let you know that tonight (7-14-08) at 11:00 pm eastern time, eyewitness news will be talking about electric cars. for those that have cable its channel 9. james loriol ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 6:49 AM ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] media-promoted WKtEC movie showing July 18 in Miramar
Hi all, Just a quick update. Final EV count for this event is three: 1) Paul Renneisen with his Toyota RAV4-EV 2) Andrew Roddy with his AC Propulsion eBox 3) myself, Charles Whalen, with my Toyota RAV4-EV So this is what we're going to go with and is the final list I'll give to radio show host Nicole Sandler for the movie showing in Miramar on July 18, early evening. I think Andrew will also be doing some on-air interviews with Nicole on her radio show over the next week to promote both the event and the Florida EAA. Best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA Delray Beach, FL - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'FLEAA Mailing List' listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 12:22 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] media-promoted WKtEC movie showing July 18 in Miramar Hi Andrew, Thanks for being able to make it to the movie event! Basically, it looks like it's just going to be you and me as the only ones with EVs there. Paul Renneisen has got an event in Orlando that evening and looks like he won't be able to make it. All the other EV drivers in South Florida appear to be either out of town, already committed, or otherwise unavailable. So I am going to let Nicole Sandler know tomorrow that it will just be you and me with your AC Propulsion eBox and my Toyota RAV4-EV. I believe the movie showing will be at the Love94 WLVE FM / Newsradio610 WIOD / 940WINZ AM radio station studios in Miramar, but I have to check Nicole on that tomorrow. Also, the station's promotion director said early evening, but I'd like to nail down an actual time. So I'll work on all that tomorrow. By the way, Nicole Sandler wrote me an email late this evening in which she asked if one of us would like to talk about the event on air, on her radio show. As you are the Florida EAA's Public Relations Director, I'd like to defer to you on that, if you're interested and willing to do so. Just let me know, and if you are, then I can pass all of this stuff on to you in tomorrow's correspondence. Best regards, Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Charles Whalen' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'FLEAA Mailing List' listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 7:48 PM Subject: RE: [FLEAA] media-promoted WKtEC movie showing July 18 in Miramar Greetings Charles, It sounds like fun. I will plan to be there. What's the address? Andrew -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Whalen Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 10:24 AM To: Florida EAA Subject: [FLEAA] media-promoted WKtEC movie showing July 18 in Miramar Hi everyone, Air America Radio 940 AM South Florida morning host Nicole Sandler has been discussing and promoting the movie Who Killed the Electric Car? on her popular morning radio show a few times over the last several weeks and saying that there should be more screenings here in South Florida. I believe that she also interviewed Florida EAA member, Toyota RAV4-EV driver, and US Congressional candidate Paul Renneisen on her show a couple weeks ago. Well, Nicole is backing up her words and making good on her interest in seeing more screenings of the movie in South Florida by arranging/hosting a showing herself on Friday, July 18 in the early evening. I believe the venue will be the Miramar studios of Love94 WLVE FM / Newsradio610 WIOD / 940WINZ AM, but I have to confirm that with Nicole and the station's Promotion Director, Kevin Cerenzia, who will be promoting this showing of the film, as will Nicole on her morning radio show. Given the (free!) wide publicity and promotion on Love94 WLVE FM / Newsradio610 WIOD / 940WINZ AM, there should be a good turnout for this film showing as well as good media coverage. The station's Promotion Director, Kevin Cerenzia, has asked me to pass this information along to our members and to try to get as many electric cars to come out to this showing of the film as possible. I will definitely be able to make it with one of my RAV4-EVs and am committed to going. I'd like to know who else can come and bring their electric cars. Could you please let me know? In particular, are any of the following of you available (I hope I'm not forgetting anyone): 1) Allan Miller, electric VW Cabriolet? 2) Does anyone know if Cliff Rassweiler (ProEV's electric Imp) is still in Miami, or has he left for Vermont for the summer? 3) Lowell Simmons (right there in Miramar), Miramar High's electric Porsche 944 and electric Ford Probe? 4) Paul Renneisen, Toyota RAV4-EV? 5) Andrew Roddy, AC Propulsion eBox? 6) Shawn Waggoner and/or Jeff Patterson, Patterson Cycles electric motorcycle(s)? 7) Bob Fuerstenau, electric Toyota pickup truck (although I'm guessing this might be a bit beyond your range)? Everyone is welcome! The more EVs we can get out to movie, the better! Thanks best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA Delray
[FLEAA] media-promoted WKtEC movie showing July 18 in Miramar
Hi everyone, Air America Radio 940 AM South Florida morning host Nicole Sandler has been discussing and promoting the movie Who Killed the Electric Car? on her popular morning radio show a few times over the last several weeks and saying that there should be more screenings here in South Florida. I believe that she also interviewed Florida EAA member, Toyota RAV4-EV driver, and US Congressional candidate Paul Renneisen on her show a couple weeks ago. Well, Nicole is backing up her words and making good on her interest in seeing more screenings of the movie in South Florida by arranging/hosting a showing herself on Friday, July 18 in the early evening. I believe the venue will be the Miramar studios of Love94 WLVE FM / Newsradio610 WIOD / 940WINZ AM, but I have to confirm that with Nicole and the station's Promotion Director, Kevin Cerenzia, who will be promoting this showing of the film, as will Nicole on her morning radio show. Given the (free!) wide publicity and promotion on Love94 WLVE FM / Newsradio610 WIOD / 940WINZ AM, there should be a good turnout for this film showing as well as good media coverage. The station's Promotion Director, Kevin Cerenzia, has asked me to pass this information along to our members and to try to get as many electric cars to come out to this showing of the film as possible. I will definitely be able to make it with one of my RAV4-EVs and am committed to going. I'd like to know who else can come and bring their electric cars. Could you please let me know? In particular, are any of the following of you available (I hope I'm not forgetting anyone): 1) Allan Miller, electric VW Cabriolet? 2) Does anyone know if Cliff Rassweiler (ProEV's electric Imp) is still in Miami, or has he left for Vermont for the summer? 3) Lowell Simmons (right there in Miramar), Miramar High's electric Porsche 944 and electric Ford Probe? 4) Paul Renneisen, Toyota RAV4-EV? 5) Andrew Roddy, AC Propulsion eBox? 6) Shawn Waggoner and/or Jeff Patterson, Patterson Cycles electric motorcycle(s)? 7) Bob Fuerstenau, electric Toyota pickup truck (although I'm guessing this might be a bit beyond your range)? Everyone is welcome! The more EVs we can get out to movie, the better! Thanks best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA Delray Beach, FL [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] clarification on ordering procedure for A123/Hymotion plug-in conversion kit for Prius
Hi everyone, I just wanted to give you an update on this developing situation with regard to the fast-growing market demand here in Florida for plug-in Priuses with the crash-tested, government-certified A123/Hymotion aftermarket conversion kit. I am now getting lots of calls from people in Florida who do not yet own a Prius and want an A123/Hymotion plug-in Prius. I can't claim ownership of this particular idea I am about to explain, because it was the first such person I spoke with who came up with this idea, which I then immediately picked up on and ever since have been suggesting it to all others who call me. The idea is this: Why buy a Prius from your local Toyota dealer here in Florida if you then have to pay to either drive it or ship it or take in on the AutoTrain all the way up to Gaithersburg, Maryland to be converted at Fitzgerald Toyota there in Gaithersburg, which is the A123/Hymotion certified installer closest to us here in Florida? Why not just arrange with Fitzgerald Toyota there in Maryland to buy your Prius right there from them just prior to your scheduled conversion installation date, since they are the ones who will be doing the conversion? Brilliant idea! (... Which as I said, I would love to take credit for, but I wasn't the first person who thought of it; I'm just passing it along to others.) The main procedural point, however, which I am very emphatically insisting to all such people here in Florida, is that anyone who wants to do this absolutely *must* follow the proper ordering sequence by going *first* to A123/Hymotion's order reservation webpage (https://www.a123systems.com/hymotion/products/reserve_yours) to sign up and reserve your conversion kit order first, including paying the $1,000 refundable depost, then wait about a week to hear back from A123/Hymotion with a tentative delivery date on your kit and installation at Fitzgerald Toyota in Gaitherburg, and only *then*, after all that, should you then contact Fitzgerald Toyota in Gaithersburg about arranging with them to purchase your Prius a week or two before your scheduled installation, or whenever Fitzgerald Toyota advises you to do so. You absolutely CANNOT and MUST NOT call Fitzgerald Toyota in Gaithersburg, Maryland first and try to arrange for the purchase and installation of the conversion kit through them together with the purchase of the car as a sort of package deal. It cannot be done that way as a package deal through Fitzgerald Toyota. That is not the proper procedure and will not get you in A123/Hymotion's order queue. A123/Hymotion will not honor any such attempts to do things that way. You absolutely *must* go through A123/Hymotion *first* to reserve your order for your conversion kit. There is one additonal thing I would add here, which I think is another great idea, and I wish I could also take credit for this idea, but I can't claim originality on this idea either, as I got it from reading a post written earlier today by Ted Ellyatt. And that is this: If you are going to do this, i.e. to order your plug-in hybrid conversion kit from A123/Hymotion and then purchase your car from Fitzgerald Toyota in Gaithersburg, Maryland, where the conversion will be done, you should also make sure that you go to your local Toyota dealer here in Florida and let them know that you are doing this!!! Let them know that you are not buying your Prius from *them* and tell them *why*!!! Tell them that if *they* offered the A123/Hymotion conversion kit installation service like Fitzgerald Toyota in Gaithersburg, Maryland does, that you would obviously prefer to buy the car here at your local Toyota dealer in Florida and have *them* do the conversion. Give them the website information for A123/Hymotion (www.a123systems.com/hymotion) and tell them to get in touch with the company about becoming a certified installer for A123/Hymotion's crash-tested, government-certified plug-in hybrid conversion kit for the Prius so that they won't miss out on future sales of the Prius like how they are missing out on your purchase. We need to put pressure on our local Toyota dealers here in Florida to let them know that they are losing out on a lot of local sales to a Toyota dealer a thousand miles away in Gaithersburg, Maryland, simply because that dealer offers the A123/Hymotion conversion kit installation service while they here in Florida do not. Charles Whalen Delray Beach, FL [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Florida EAA ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 12:09 AM Subject: clarification on ordering procedure for A123/Hymotion plug-in conversion kit for Prius Hi all, Unfortunately, I was the original source for incorrect information that has now gotten out and proliferated around Florida, especially among our Florida EAA membership, on this particular subject, and senior management at A123 has made a request for me to please correct
[FLEAA] looking for Harvey Bennett's email address
I'm trying to reach Harvey Bennett, but the email address I've got for him is bouncing. Anyone have his current email address? (Sorry, I know he made a bunch of posts this morning, but I've already permanently deleted them.) Thanks, Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] clarification on ordering procedure for A123/Hymotion plug-in conversion kit for Prius
Joseph, Both excellent questions, but neither of which I know the answer to. As for the first, if you had asked me that question 2 years ago, I would have said yes, definitely not. But Toyota is the largest automaker in the world (in terms of both sales and capitalization) and as such is not a monolithic organization; like GM, or any other large automaker for that matter, there are internal factions and differences of opinion. So I would venture to say that it probably depends on whom you speak with at Toyota. The fact that A123 has already signed up Toyota dealers as its certified retail installers, and will continue to sign up more of them, is in itself probably good evidence of that. As for your second question, again, I don't know, but I would suspect so, if not directly then at least through various intermediaries. :-) Yes, Priuses with the A123/Hymotion plug-in conversion kit installed in them have been tested by the EPA for emissions and have passed such testing and thus are EPA certified. As for whether you'll find such results on the government website you mentioned, I don't know; maybe, maybe not; maybe not if that website only publishes figures for new cars, stock, as they come from the manufacturer. But if you are interested in seeing the specific data and results of the EPA emissions testing of the A123/Hymotion converted Priuses, I would encourage you to contact A123 and ask them for that data. They should be willing to give it to you or direct you to a website containing that data. When dealing with plug-in electric vehicles, the government uses a miles per gallon equivalent figure. This is calculated based on the fact that a gallon of gasoline contains approximately 33.75 kWh worth of energy. So in the case of the 2002 Toyota RAV4-EV, for example, which consumes 270 Wh/mile (from the wall to the wheels): (33.75 kWh/gal.) / (.27 kWh/mile) = 125 miles per gallon equivalent (usually abbreviated as mpge). You would have to work out a blended average mpg-mpge for a certain number of miles driven per day in the case of an A123/Hymotion converted plug-in Prius, given that it is using both gasoline and stored electricity from charging the car. Putting together such a matrix for different number of miles driven per day might make a good school homework assignment. :-) You flatter me, but to be honest about it, you're giving me more credit than I'm due. Anyone who has been around the EV community for a while has developed some connections. There is a certain correlation there that goes with time invested. Those in the Florida EAA leadership who have been around longer than I have better connections than I do. As for the specific case at hand, I am a few connections away from having any real influence in the matter. I was merely a facilitator and foot soldier in the chain of communications. To be entirely honest about it, Fran Sullivan-Fahs is the one who deserves all the credit and is making this happen through her sheer determination, tenacious, persistent follow-through, and perseverance. She is a one-person tour-de-force! ... (double-entendre there on the tour) Charles - Original Message - From: Joseph T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 2:11 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] clarification on ordering procedure for A123/Hymotion plug-in conversion kit for Prius Two questions... Don't you think that Toyota doesn't like having PHEV conversions done at their dealerships? Has A123 had discussions with Toyota management? Has the A123 mod. been tested for emissions certification also, in which case I assume mpg figures will be published on the government website fueleconomy.gov. It would be interesting to see how exactly the government rates the fuel economy of the cars, since a PHEV's mpg is largely dependant on how much you charged up the battery. You must have some very good connections Charles if you got an exception for someone. On 6/22/08, Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Unfortunately, I was the original source for incorrect information that has now gotten out and proliferated around Florida, especially among our Florida EAA membership, on this particular subject, and senior management at A123 has made a request for me to please correct the erroneous information and set the record straight. By way of background, in trying to be helpful, I had unwittingly given false information to Fran Sullivan-Fahs in Tallahassee based on some seemingly logical (at the time) but ultimately incorrect assumptions I made, by directing Fran to a A123/Hymotion commercial fleet installer. This caused some issues for A123, as it does not correspond to their standard ordering procedure. Fran's situation ultimately rose up to the highest levels at A123, whereupon senior management made a decision to make a one-time exception for Fran and Fran alone, which
[FLEAA] clarification on ordering procedure for A123/Hymotion plug-in conversion kit for Prius
Hi all, Unfortunately, I was the original source for incorrect information that has now gotten out and proliferated around Florida, especially among our Florida EAA membership, on this particular subject, and senior management at A123 has made a request for me to please correct the erroneous information and set the record straight. By way of background, in trying to be helpful, I had unwittingly given false information to Fran Sullivan-Fahs in Tallahassee based on some seemingly logical (at the time) but ultimately incorrect assumptions I made, by directing Fran to a A123/Hymotion commercial fleet installer. This caused some issues for A123, as it does not correspond to their standard ordering procedure. Fran's situation ultimately rose up to the highest levels at A123, whereupon senior management made a decision to make a one-time exception for Fran and Fran alone, which will not be made again nor allowed to happen again in the future, and they would like that to be known. Senior management at A123 would like everyone in Florida to know that there is one, and only one, way and official procedure for individual retail customers to place an order for their A123/Hymotion plug-in conversion kit for the Prius and arrange for it to be installed by one of A123's certified retail installers, and that is to sign up on A123/Hymotion's secure order reservation webform at: https://www.a123systems.com/hymotion/products/reserve_yours, with the payment of $1,000 refundable deposit. Doing this will put you in the official order queue for a conversion kit and schedule for installation at A123's nearest certified retail installer, which at the present time for us here in Florida is Fitzgerald Toyota in Gaithersburg, Maryland. A123's national list of certified retail installers can be seen here: http://www.a123systems.com/hymotion/get_charged/where_can_i_get_one. A123 is increasingly signing up local Toyota dealers around the country as their certified retail installers. At some point, there may well be some Toyota dealers here in Florida that become A123 certified retail installers, but the only way that can happen is if A123 knows where the retail demand for their kit is coming from and that there is substantial demand here in Florida; and the only way they will know that is if people sign up on their official order reservation webform on A123/Hymotion's website, and not by trying to contact one of their certified installers. A123 has no idea where the end demand is coming from and can't get a handle on that if people go through their certified installers rather than through A123 itself. So that is the rationale for their policy, which makes perfect sense. To reiterate the policy, because this is important -- anyone who tries to order their plug-in hybrid conversion kit through one of A123's certified installers and not through A123 itself will *not*, I repeat, will *NOT*, get in A123's system in their official order queue and will *NOT* get a conversion kit. You *must* use A123's order reservation form on their website. The one-time exception that was made for Fran Sullivan-Fahs will *not* be made again for anyone else. The price for the conversion kit, including installation, is $10k, plus a $400 destination charge, and comes with a 3-year warranty. Right now there is a 6-month order backlog, from order to delivery and installation. Anyone who signs up on the order reservation webform today will be scheduled for delivery and installation of their conversion kit in December 2008. A123/Hymotion has the only US Government (DOT, EPA, and NHTSA) certified, crash-tested, and approved plug-in hybrid conversion kit on the market for the Prius. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused by the situation surrounding Fran's conversion and the incorrect information that has gotten around because of that, which was solely my own fault. Hope this helps to clarify matters. Best regards, Charles Whalen Delray Beach, FL [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] Tampa Tribune article on EVs
http://www2.tbo.com:80/content/2008/jun/17/me-electric-vehicles-generate-interest/?news-breaking ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] Tampa Tribune article on EVs
Sent this previously, but it didn't seem to hit the listserv, which may be delayed or down or something. Anyway, will try this again: http://www2.tbo.com:80/content/2008/jun/17/me-electric-vehicles-generate-interest/?news-breaking ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] 240V charging in Key West?
you're doing to promote green and sustainable living throughout the Keys!!! You have definitely put the Florida Keys on the map as the most progressive part of the state and have set an example of environmental leadership and stewardship that is a model for the entire state and are the envy of the entire state of Florida in that regard!!! And as part of that effort, thanks again for everything you're doing to help us in the Florida EAA promote awareness of highway-capable electric cars in the Keys! I look forward to seeing you in the next few days. Best regards, Charles Whalen Charging Director Florida Electric Auto Association (www.floridaeaa.org) Delray Beach, FL tel: 561-638-6881 cell: 561-251-2387 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Colleen Tagle To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; John Melohn Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Brent Cranney ; Roy Coley Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: Re: HELP! Great news, guys! Our Ops manager John Melohn is happy to help. Please have our visitor call him directly at 13057472625 to discuss the details. Thanks and see you at the Expo! Colleen 747.0466. --Original Message-- From: TJ Patterson To: Julio Barroso Cc: Charles Whalen Cc: Karen Beal Cc: Colleen Tagle ReplyTo: TJ Patterson Sent: May 6, 2008 8:55 AM Subject: HELP! Colleen, HELP! Can you see if there is an outlet at FKAA in KW for us? Thanks, TJ Barroso, Julio wrote: Not sure of anyone off hand...let me know look in to it and let you know. Did you check with Colleen Tagle at FKAA to see if they have something in Key West? Julio J. Barroso Communications / Marketing Coordinator Keys Energy Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] (305) 295-1023 FAX: (305) 295-1005 1001 James Street, Key West, FL 33040 P Please consider the environment before printing this email -Original Message- From: TJ Patterson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:34 AM To: Charles Whalen Cc: Karen Beal; Barroso, Julio Subject: Re: 1) my EV status update; 2) tentative itinerary; 3) 240V charging in Key West? Charles, Give Julio Barroso a call at Keys Energy at 305-295-1000 and see if he can find somebody for you. They may have something at their office, I'm not sure. He knows a lot of people, though and could probably find something. FKAA probably as a welding shop down there as well and you could probably use it. TJ - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Karen Beal [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:25 PM Subject: 1) my EV status update; 2) tentative itinerary; 3) 240V charging in Key West? Karen (and TJ), Just wanted to give you an update on my vehicle status for what I'll be bringing down to GLEE and also my tentative itinerary. I tried but have been unable to repair my Vectrix electric motorcycle and get it in an operative, functional state. So I am driving down there once again this year in one of my Toyota RAV4-EVs (same as I did last year). I will definitely be there for the media session on Friday afternoon. Right now, depending on what I can accomplish and get done here in the next day and a half, my plans are to drive down there either on Wednesday or Thursday. (Last year I drove down on Thursday.) I haven't made my hotel reservations yet and will wait 'til tomorrow to do so, when I will make my decision about whether I'm coming down on Wednesday or Thursday. Either way, I am planning to stay at BackFin Resort where I stayed last year, mostly because they've got a marina there, where I am going to try to charge my car. Last year I didn't have a plug adaptor for their 240-Volt marine type outlets, but this year I do, so I am going to try to charge there. If I'm unsuccessful in charging there, then I'll go over to the Keys Aqueduct Authority workshop and charge there, where we charged last year. (That would be on either Wednesday or Thursday, depending on which day I drive down there.) If I come down on Wednesday, as I'm hoping to do, I'd like to take the day on Thursday to drive down to Key West and back to try to get us a 240 Volt charging location down there. (I would actually need a 240V charge down there in Key West in order to make it back up to Marathon.) Do either you or TJ or anyone else you guys know involved in the Keys GLEE organization know of any accessible outdoor 30-50A 208-240V outlets down there in Key West which the property owners or business proprietors might be willing to make available to us and host a charging location for us there? Thanks best regards, Charles Whalen Charging Director Florida Electric Auto Association (www.floridaeaa.org) Delray Beach, FL tel: 561-638-6881 cell: 561-251-2387 [EMAIL PROTECTED
[FLEAA] Florida Keys EV tour charging station search mission
Hi all, I am forwarding to the list this email I sent to David Turock and Shawn Lawless, just as an FYI, for more info on my Florida Keys EV tour charging station search mission. Charles Whalen Charging Director Florida EAA - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: David Turock [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:06 PM Subject: Re: 240V charging in Key West? David and Shawn, I'm consolidating my responses to both of you on this, although I don't think you know each other. But I just wanted to thank both of you for your suggestions on 240V charging possibilities in Key West. I guess I should probably first introduce you guys to each other, as you are both EVers and EVangelists extraordinaire! David -- Shawn Lawless is the President of NEDRA (www.nedra.com), the National Electric Drag Racing Association, and is one of the top electric drag racers in the world, holding many world records. Shawn is based in Ohio (Youngstown or thereabouts in eastern Ohio, I believe) and spends a good deal of time down here in South Florida collaborating and working with our top electric drag racers down here and supporting our events. As I have just learned, Shawn also spends some time in Key West and knows it well enough to have given me some great recommendations on 240V charging possibilities there, as did you. Shawn -- David Turock, a former Bell Labs engineer, international tech serial entrepreneur, helicopter and jet pilot, aviation CEO, largest private fleet owner of Toyota RAV4-EVs in the world (I've lost track, but I think it's 3 and counting), is a one-man EV tour de force in the New Jersey-New York City area, where he is based, and well beyond, including on Capitol Hill in Washington DC, Sacramento, and here in South Florida, where David has a winter vacation home in Ft. Lauderdale that he has generously made our FLEAA Ft. Lauderdale charging station. David keeps one of his 3 Toyota RAV4-EVs here in Ft. Lauderdale, where it is driven by his next-door neighbor, veteran US Air Force fighter pilot, American Airlines Captain, and FLEAA member, Paul Renneisen, who uses it to commute back and forth from his home in Ft. Lauderdale to Miami International Airport, where he flies out of. Paul also drives and features David's RAV4-EV very prominently in his campaign for US Congress (www.renneisen2008.com), for Florida's 22nd Congressional district, encompassing most of Broward and Palm Beach Counties, as the first electric car driver ever to run for the US Congress. Anyway, enough of formal introductions. Hope I didn't short-change anyone. :-) David -- Thanks for the recommendation on the Galleon. I tried but couldn't get a reservation there, as they were fully booked. Thanks also for the offer on contacting your friend who has a house there. I would have taken you up on that if I hadn't gotten so many other good possibilties, which I will get to in a minute, here below. Shawn -- Here's my itinerary of confirmed hotel reservations, in case you're going to be down here a few days ahead of those dates you previously mentioned to me for your own trip to Key West and would like to hook up and get together, maybe our paths will cross. I deliberately chose all 3 of these hotels -- in Key Largo, Marathon, and Key West -- because all 3 of them have marinas with 30-50A 240V shore power outlets where I might be able to charge my car, as well as for other reasons, either for proximity to other marinas or existing charging stations we've already got, and/or reasonable, relatively cheap price (all except for the one in Key Largo, which is on the expensive side). Thursday May 8 - Tarpon Flats Inn Marina 29 Shoreland Dr. Key Largo, FL 33037 tel: 305-453-1313 $205/night Very nice, friendly people, excited about my EV. They already told me over the phone that I could charge my car using their 240V marina shore power outlets. Short 1/2 mile walk to our existing Key Largo charging station. Fri-Sat May 9-10 --- Blackfin Resort Marina 4650 Overseas Hwy Marathon, FL 33050 tel: 305-743-2393 $99/night I stayed at this hotel last year but couldn't charge my RAV4-EV because I didn't have the right marine type twist-lock plug adaptor. I do, however, this year, and I can park right next to the marina, so I should be able to charge from their 50A 240V outlets. We also have an existing charging station nearby at the Florida Keys Aqueduct Authority workshop in Marathon, where I charged last year. I and other FLEAA members will be exhibiting our EVs at the Keys GLEE Expo (www.keysglee.com/html/08_expo/2008expo.htm) at Marathon High School on Fri-Sat May 9-10. I just got word late this afternoon from TJ Patterson of the Keys Electric Coop in Marathon that the high school's electrician has just today installed two 50A 208V 14-50 outlets on the outside of the school for our charging use. I have offered to pay for the $200
[FLEAA] 240V charging in Key West?
Hi all, After the Keys GLEE Expo this coming weekend, I'm thinking about driving my RAV4-EV from Marathon down to Key West to look for any potential charging station possibilities for us there. (I would actually need a 240V charge down there in Key West in order to make it back up to Marathon, where we *do* have a charging station.) I'm going to ask the organizers of the Keys GLEE Expo if they know of any accessible outdoor 30-50A 208-240V outlets down there in Key West for which the property owners or business proprietors might be willing to make it/them available to us and host a charging station for us there. But in the meantime, I just thought I'd put this out on the list to see if we've got anyone here on our FLEAA D/L who is down there in or near Key West and knows of any such possibilities. Thanks, Charles Whalen Charging Director Florida EAA Delray Beach, FL [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] BROWARD COUNTY NEW CHAMBER MEMBER DISCOUNT LIPTON
people to two converters: 1) Steve Clunn of Grassroots EV in Ft. Pierce tel: 772-971-0533 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.grassrootsev.com and 2) Lowell Simmons of Miramar High School in Miramar tel: 754-323-1422 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.miramarev.com Like Steve Clunn, Lowell Simmons has been doing conversions here in Florida for over 10 years and is excellent at it and very professional. The last I heard from Lowell, he is available to take on a conversion project right now, and I recommend him. I also recommend my good friend Steve Clunn, but in all honesty, I also like to point out that while Steve's work is also very good and solid, he does not always put the highest priority on the aesthetics and cosmetic appearance aspects, unless the customer really insists on it and gives Steve a lot of extra time on those things, but rather Steve tends to concentrate more on just the functionality aspects of the conversion. I also made this point in the Palm Beach Post article on Steve's conversion business. So I think the general point here is one of just trying to be as open, honest, and transparent as possible; to make full disclosures about one's business interests and even one's contributions to others' businesses, even where there is no agreement or expectation of any financial return or ownership interest; to try to maintain some professional ethics, use common sense, and not use the non-profit FLEAA to crassly and blatantly promote one's own EV business interests or those of any one particular EV business over another. Let me make one last point here, again by way of example, coming full circle back to my non-profit services that I provide to FLEAA members with regard to parts service support for RAV4-EVs and their offboard inductive chargers. There would be absolutely nothing wrong or inappropriate with me setting up my own for-profit commercial business to do that and then even informing everyone over the FLEAA list that I have done so and that my RAV4-EV commercial services are available. I could very well do that. But I have made a conscious, deliberate, *PERSONAL* decision not to do so and to offer these services free of charge on a non-profit basis as a FLEAA member. (Please note my emphasis on the word PERSONAL -- this was simply a *personal* decision and not one dictated by FLEAA rules or ethics.) Having done that, and not having set up a for-profit company to do so, I am therefore identifying these non-profit, non-commercial RAV4-EV support services primarily through my membership and association with the FLEAA. The important point here is again, as I said above, just to remember and keep straight which role and which hat one is wearing at any given time and not to mix the two. If I want to identify a service as one that I am providing as a FLEAA member to fellow FLEAA members, and therefore am primarily identifying such service in association with the FLEAA, then in keeping with the FLEAA's non-profit status, I'd better be darn sure that I adhere to the letter and spirit of that non-profit status and be squeaky clean about it. I hope this helps to clarify the situation and the important point that you have raised, Greg. And I'm glad that you did raise it, because I think this is an issue that needs to be addressed and emphasized from time to time, just to make sure that we all understand the role of the FLEAA and the rules, limits, and bounds of its non-profit status. By the way, all of this is just my own understanding and interpretation of these rules, limits, and bounds. I don't claim to be the ultimate authority or have the final word in speaking for the FLEAA on this subject. That would ultimately be our President, Shawn Waggoner, who would speak for the FLEAA on this. If anyone else has anything to add or any different interpretations, I would welcome it as a valuable addition to this important subject. Thanks again, Greg, for weighing in with your contribution to this discussion. Best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA Delray Beach, FL [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Greg Sims To: Charles Whalen ; FLEAA Mailing List Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 7:22 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] BROWARD COUNTY NEW CHAMBER MEMBER DISCOUNT LIPTON Hi In response to Charles' email, I wanted to present a counter idea to how the charter for FLEAA works. I'm not suggesting a change but just a different point of view. I appreciate the integrity of the members for not taking a markup or charge for their time in working with other members. If those are the rule of the group I think they should be followed. My thought is the I would really like to get some help to convert a vehicle to electric but my time is limited. I know how difficult it is to get help on someones free time, for instance I'm working with a charity for girls in Kenya on a web site, free of charge because I'm good friend with one of the founders and my connections with Kenya. And I wouldn't
Re: [FLEAA] NiMH Patents
Hi Joseph, Your understanding is not quite correct. GoldPeak has an unrestricted, permissive Ovonics license from 1991 that allows it to sell large-format NiMH batteries (10Ah) into the US market, which was grandfathered upon Chevron's purchase of the patents around the turn of the century. European battery manufacturers Saft and Varta both *had* (past-tense) grandfathered Ovonics licenses that allowed them to sell large-format NiMH (10Ah) batteries in Europe only, but both companies voided the terms and conditions of their licenses upon their acquisitions by an American battery manufacturer, Johnson Controls of Milwaukee (in both cases), such that neither of them can produce large-format NiMH batteries any longer, even for the European market. (Note that that pdf you referenced is dated July 2005, which predates Saft's acquisition by Johnson Controls. Try buying new 100Ah NiMH batteries from Saft now and see what answer you get. Hint: I already know the answer to that question, from several entities that have tried.) There are two companies, Electro Energy and Nilar, that have both developed large-format bipolar NiMH batteries, but neither one of them is in commercial production. Both companies are in clear violation of the Chevron patent licensing rights, as the patents relate to the electrochemistry at the cell level (which remains the same), not the modular construction. But Chevron will not bother spending all the money and dedicating all the legal resources that it takes to bring a patent infringement lawsuit (like they did and won against Toyota and Panasonic, to the tune of $30 million) against either one of these companies unless either one of them scores a large-volume commercial OEM contract, ... which neither of them has done and neither is expected to do, for exactly that reason. There is a guy in San Diego operating out of his garage who is doing Prius plug-in hybrid conversions using Nilar's NiMH batteries. As long as this remains a backyard operation of very small volume, only several cars a year, this guy will remain under the radar and Chevron won't waste their time with him and with Nilar. But if it ever reaches large-volume OEM commercial volumes, Chevron will sue for patent infringement and will win. Chevron's top executives have said so, exactly that, in private conversations. Chevron's NiMH patents expire on December 31, 2014. Best regards, Charles Whalen Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:38:06 -0400 From: Joseph T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FLEAA] NiMH Patents To: listserv@floridaeaa.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 As I understand, Chevron's patent control over large-format NiMH batteries means that no other company but them can produce such batteries. However, why does Saft sell high-capacity (100 Ah+) NiMH batteries? http://www.saftbatteries.com/130-Catalogue/PDF/NHE_en.pdf The pdf is dated July 2005. I've heard about new NiMH batteries that avoid patent troubles, such as bi-polar NiMH batteries. http://www.electroenergyinc.com/products/technicalpapers/BipolarNickel.pdf How long have these been around? ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] NiMH Patents
The only place we can get them is from GoldPeak. I know and speak with GoldPeak's Chairman and have had an intensive series of meetings with GoldPeak's Chief Battery Engineer (of 30 years). I have also signed an NDA with them, which I believe they would require of anyone before they would give you much information about their batteries, as they don't publish any detailed specs or information about their batteries on their website. What you asking is something that I have been working on for a year now and am continuing to pursue. It takes a lot of work and deal-making, bringing people together and trying to sell large commercial interests on the advantages of NiMH batteries, which some are largely ignorant of and have no experience with, unlike myself. This all takes time. We would have to piggyback on larger commercial volumes of much bigger players than ourselves. That's the only way we will ever be able to get these batteries. It may be possible by early next year; that's probably at least how long it will take this one particularly large commercial deal to come together. But deep down, my own personal feeling -- knowing the parties involved and some of the other battery options they're pursuing, and having brokered this tentative deal myself -- is that I suspect there's probably only about a 20% chance that this will happen. So I have already started to think about some other ways to try to generate some volume through other channels, and even though it would likely be much smaller volume, it might be just enough to do a deal with GoldPeak, given what I know of their 18-year history with these batteries and what sorts of volumes they've previously done. Getting back to the previous discussion in another, separate thread about for-profit vs. not-for-profit status and motivations, I have already decided that whichever way we can generate sufficient volume with GoldPeak for us to get their batteries, either the former or the latter way I discussed above, I would make such batteries available at one price -- the same price that I would be getting, without any markup or commission for myself -- to anyone who wants them and who, more importantly, has a track record of demonstrated technical capability and experience to be able to competently integrate these batteries into a conversion. (It won't help either GoldPeak or the stellar reputation of NiMH batteries if someone ends up killing or degrading GoldPeak's batteries due to their own lack of experience and competence. GoldPeak has been quite clear about this in my conversations with them.) I'm not going to go into any more specifics about this in a public forum like this, but if you want to meet with me in person, I'd be happy to discuss more details on this up to the limits of what my NDA covers. I will be at the Fort Pierce EV Rally this Saturday, April 26. Yes, Saft does have the battery on their website. Good luck getting it. Many others have tried, including much larger commercial players. But hey, keep trying. I'd be interested to learn whatever you find out. Best regards, Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] NiMH Patents Thanks for the grat info. So where can we get NiMH batteries for a conversion? Is there anything? I tried today all day w/saft and left messages before reading your email. They do have the battery on the site though. Thanks Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:51:27 To:Florida EAA ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Subject: Re: [FLEAA] NiMH Patents Hi Joseph, Your understanding is not quite correct. GoldPeak has an unrestricted, permissive Ovonics license from 1991 that allows it to sell large-format NiMH batteries (10Ah) into the US market, which was grandfathered upon Chevron's purchase of the patents around the turn of the century. European battery manufacturers Saft and Varta both *had* (past-tense) grandfathered Ovonics licenses that allowed them to sell large-format NiMH (10Ah) batteries in Europe only, but both companies voided the terms and conditions of their licenses upon their acquisitions by an American battery manufacturer, Johnson Controls of Milwaukee (in both cases), such that neither of them can produce large-format NiMH batteries any longer, even for the European market. (Note that that pdf you referenced is dated July 2005, which predates Saft's acquisition by Johnson Controls. Try buying new 100Ah NiMH batteries from Saft now and see what answer you get. Hint: I already know the answer to that question, from several entities that have tried.) There are two companies, Electro Energy and Nilar, that have both developed large-format bipolar NiMH batteries, but neither one of them is in commercial production. Both companies
Re: [FLEAA] NiMH Patents
Hi Joseph, Having been around the EV community and industry for quite some time, I have a pretty good idea who that person is. There is principally one person, quite well-known in fact, in the EV community who takes exactly that line, and in exactly the same way that you expressed it. That person and the vehemence and personal vindictiveness with which he takes that position has been responsible for some of the ugliest, nastiest personal insults and flames I have ever seen on any issue on the various EV lists. Having been witness to it and the ugliness of it, I have no intention of provoking that sort of response directed at me, nor do I have the time for this. Therefore, I would respectfully request that you please do not cross-post my comments to other lists. We have an open list here. Anyone who wants to is free to join this list, and this list is not censored or moderated. However, we will not tolerate that kind of personal abusiveness on this list, and anyone who engages in it will be removed from the list. I myself don't have time right now to monitor other lists, much less participate in discussions on other lists; I can barely keep up with this FLEAA list as it is. Therefore, I do not want my comments posted to a list where I cannot monitor what is said about me, especially when I am likely to be personally attacked in an abusive manner, given the very ugly past history on this particular issue by the person in question to whom you are referring. Toyota executives who ran the RAV4-EV program confirm that the Chevron NiMH patent infringement lawsuit against them, resulting in a $30 million judgment that they and Panasonic had to pay to Chevron, is the very reason that they were forced to stop producing the RAV4-EV and that they would have continued to do so were it not for the loss of that lawsuit which required them to stop making the batteries for the car. On the other hand, if you look at my last few posts on this subject -- specifically those related to GoldPeak and how I have been working on trying to make business deals to generate enough volume (i.e. *demand*) to enable us to get some of their large-format NiMH batteries -- it is entirely clear and self-evident that *demand* is obviously an integral part of the equation. In any business, there are always two sides of the market -- supply and demand. One *has* to look at and examine issues on both sides. How one wants to divide up and attempt to quantify the various causes of the current difficulty in obtaining large-format NiMH batteries between: a) Chevron's control of the patents, patent licensing rights, and their premeditated, very deliberate and clever suppression of this disruptive technology (which their top executives admit to), b) demand issues, c) price increases and volatility of nickel on world commodity markets, and d) other factors, is an academic exercise that doesn't much interest me, nor one that I have time for. These are complex business issues. Clearly it is all of the above, but I couldn't begin to try to quantify various shares of those causes. Having said that, just given the statements of Chevron's own executives as well as those of Toyota's executives, I think it is quite clear that (a) has been an important and likely even a dominant factor. In that sense, I think you and I are in agreement on that. Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Joseph T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] NiMH Patents Thank you Charles for all the info. On insightcentral.net (for the Honda Insight) there was a discussion about NiMH batteries and one of the members were saying that the whole NiMH patent situation is not related to the oil companies, and instead it is entirely the fault of the market. Of course, it cannot entirely be the oil companies fault, the same way it cannot entirely be the car buying public's fault; it lies somewhere in between. However, I'd say the fault falls more onto the oil companies than the car buying public... :) Is it okay if I share your info onto Insightcentral.net? Can I copy and paste it even? On 4/24/08, Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One additional, very important point I should make on this -- relating to the requirement of having the requisite track record of demonstrated technical capability and experience to be able to competently integrate these batteries into a conversion, before GoldPeak would consider allowing someone to be in on a group-buy or piggyback on a larger commercial deal -- is that if you are planning to use a Manzanita Micro charger or any of the other popular hobbyist-gear chargers, you can stop right there and just forget about using NiMH, because those hobbyist-gear chargers are not capable of competently charging NiMH. You will need a professional-gear OEM-quality charger that is both programmable
Re: [FLEAA] BROWARD COUNTY NEW CHAMBER MEMBER DISCOUNT LIPTON
Fran, It's apparently up to $4,000; could be less, however, I'm not sure. Also, the legislation is pending; it may not get through the committee process and pass both chambers and be signed, etc., etc. I don't know if it will be retroactive; I suspect it might be, but only for the post-certification A123/Hymotion BREM Gen 2 kits, i.e. not for the A123/Hymotion BREM Gen 1 kits installed last year. But please understand that I do not closely follow this legislation and am not an expert on it. I will have to ask those questions to others who do and are closely involved with it and the drafting of it. I'll be traveling the next few days and will be back next week. Charles - Original Message - From: Fran Sullivan-Fahs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] BROWARD COUNTY NEW CHAMBER MEMBER DISCOUNT LIPTON Wow, Charles. I didn't know that there was that $4,000 rebate pending for conversion of Prii with the A 123. Will it be retroactive for those already converted, do you think? Fran - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Florida EAA ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] BROWARD COUNTY NEW CHAMBER MEMBER DISCOUNT LIPTON Hi Joseph and all, There is nothing new about this. I have posted to the FLEAA on this subject previously about these services and parts supplies inventory. One important thing I have mentioned in my previous posts on this subject but did not mention in yesterday's post, which is worth pointing out, is that I offer these parts and services as a FLEAA member, and in keeping with the FLEAA's non-profit status, I do so without making any profit, without charging any markup on the parts supplies and inventory, and without charging anything for my time, services, and labor -- absolutely nothing! (This is no different than, for instance, the National EAA, which offers, through its Chairman Ron Freund's services, Avcon to 14-50 adaptor boxes, to EAA members at the cost of materials, with no markup added and no compensation to Ron for his time and labor in making up these boxes.) I spent a good deal of my time servicing and troubleshooting a problem with one South Florida-based RAV4-EV for a FLEAA member a few weeks ago, all on my own time and without charge. It turned out that the problem was not with the car but with the charger. The only immediate fix to get the car back on the road again for its driver was for me to sell the owner a new inductive charger from my inventory. The owner wanted to pay me more than I had paid for the charger so that I could make something on it. I politely declined his kind offer and insisted that I would only sell the charger at my cost that I had paid for it, pointing out that I do this as a non-profit service for FLEAA members, and that it is not my intention to make money off of EVers. Another point I would like to make is that in facilitating Prius plug-in hybrid conversions with the government-certified A123/Hymotion kit, I personally, the FLEAA as an organization, do not have any business or financial relationship, investment, or interest in the companies involved in that business. I/we simply provide information and referral services to people in Florida who are interested in converting their Priuses to plug-in hybrid. The A123/Hymotion kit is the only DOT/EPA/NHTSA certified kit that is eligible for federal government rebates of up to $4,000, principally in the form of federal tax credits, for individuals who convert their Priuses to plug-in hybrids, under legislation that is currently pending in Congress. My understanding is that the legislation, as it has been drafted, only provides federal tax credits to plug-in hybrid conversion kits that have been certified by the DOT, EPA, and NHTSA, and must be installed by certified installers. Charles Whalen Florida EAA Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:25:11 -0400 From: Joseph T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [FLEAA] BROWARD COUNTY NEW CHAMBER MEMBER DISCOUNT LIPTON TOYOTA] To: david starky [EMAIL PROTECTED], FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I never knew the FLEAA (specifically Charles Whalen) had such supplies or sources for the Rav4 EV. We have facilitated the conversion of a number of Priuses to plug-in hybrids using the DOT/EPA/NHTSA-certified A123/Hymotion PHEV kit both by individuals, including some of our Florida EAA members, and commercial and government fleet operators in Florida, and are continuing to do so. Charles, have the A123 kits been government certified yet? ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org -- No virus found in this incoming
Re: [FLEAA] BROWARD COUNTY NEW CHAMBER MEMBER DISCOUNT LIPTON
To my knowledge, no, not in Florida and not at the federal level, nor are any proposed. At the present time, just for the Prius, and only *proposed* under currently pending legislation in Congress. But would also apply to Ford Escape plug-in hybrid aftermarket conversion kits, if any such kits are put through the same government certification process that A123/Hymotion has done with their Prius kit. ... Which may well be in the works, in the case of the Escape. At least that's my understanding. Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org; Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] BROWARD COUNTY NEW CHAMBER MEMBER DISCOUNT LIPTON Are there a,y funds or rebates for conversion to full electric for other vehicles or is it just for prius? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Fran Sullivan-Fahs [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:38:19 To:Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED],FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Subject: Re: [FLEAA] BROWARD COUNTY NEW CHAMBER MEMBER DISCOUNT LIPTON Wow, Charles. I didn't know that there was that $4,000 rebate pending for conversion of Prii with the A 123. Will it be retroactive for those already converted, do you think? Fran - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Florida EAA ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] BROWARD COUNTY NEW CHAMBER MEMBER DISCOUNT LIPTON Hi Joseph and all, There is nothing new about this. I have posted to the FLEAA on this subject previously about these services and parts supplies inventory. One important thing I have mentioned in my previous posts on this subject but did not mention in yesterday's post, which is worth pointing out, is that I offer these parts and services as a FLEAA member, and in keeping with the FLEAA's non-profit status, I do so without making any profit, without charging any markup on the parts supplies and inventory, and without charging anything for my time, services, and labor -- absolutely nothing! (This is no different than, for instance, the National EAA, which offers, through its Chairman Ron Freund's services, Avcon to 14-50 adaptor boxes, to EAA members at the cost of materials, with no markup added and no compensation to Ron for his time and labor in making up these boxes.) I spent a good deal of my time servicing and troubleshooting a problem with one South Florida-based RAV4-EV for a FLEAA member a few weeks ago, all on my own time and without charge. It turned out that the problem was not with the car but with the charger. The only immediate fix to get the car back on the road again for its driver was for me to sell the owner a new inductive charger from my inventory. The owner wanted to pay me more than I had paid for the charger so that I could make something on it. I politely declined his kind offer and insisted that I would only sell the charger at my cost that I had paid for it, pointing out that I do this as a non-profit service for FLEAA members, and that it is not my intention to make money off of EVers. Another point I would like to make is that in facilitating Prius plug-in hybrid conversions with the government-certified A123/Hymotion kit, I personally, the FLEAA as an organization, do not have any business or financial relationship, investment, or interest in the companies involved in that business. I/we simply provide information and referral services to people in Florida who are interested in converting their Priuses to plug-in hybrid. The A123/Hymotion kit is the only DOT/EPA/NHTSA certified kit that is eligible for federal government rebates of up to $4,000, principally in the form of federal tax credits, for individuals who convert their Priuses to plug-in hybrids, under legislation that is currently pending in Congress. My understanding is that the legislation, as it has been drafted, only provides federal tax credits to plug-in hybrid conversion kits that have been certified by the DOT, EPA, and NHTSA, and must be installed by certified installers. Charles Whalen Florida EAA Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:25:11 -0400 From: Joseph T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [FLEAA] BROWARD COUNTY NEW CHAMBER MEMBER DISCOUNT LIPTON TOYOTA] To: david starky [EMAIL PROTECTED], FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I never knew the FLEAA (specifically Charles Whalen) had such supplies or sources for the Rav4 EV. We have facilitated the conversion of a number of Priuses to plug-in hybrids using the DOT/EPA/NHTSA-certified A123/Hymotion PHEV kit both by individuals, including some of our Florida EAA members, and commercial and government fleet operators in Florida, and are continuing to do so. Charles, have
[FLEAA] contact info for Miami EV Project?
I met these guys, Danny Alva and Donato Helbling, at the Green Apple Festival in Miami last Sunday: http://www.miamievproject.com/ They told me -- or actually a girl who was with them and gave me their website address told me -- that their email addresses/contact info is on their website. But having just checked it, it is not. Does anyone know their email addresses? (The rap group was blasting its muzak so darn loud that I could barely hear what anyone was saying.) Thanks, Charles Whalen ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] 10th Annual Ft. Pierce EV Rally next Saturday
Hi all, Audry Martin, Steve Clunn's business manager at Grassroots EV in Ft. Pierce, asked me to post a reminder about next Saturday's 10th Annual Ft. Pierce EV Rally: Saturday April 26 -- 10th Annual Ft. Pierce EV Rally Advance Auto Parts 4158 Okeechobee Road Ft. Pierce, FL 11am - 4pm Many EVs on exhibit, Ride 'N Drive If you have any questions, you can contact Steve Clunn or Audry Martin at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: 772-971-0533 Best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] Key Biscayne EarthFest demo ride last-minute cancellation
Hi all, This is especially directed at those who were intending to exhibit and give rides in their EVs at the Key Biscayne EarthFest this Sunday, April 20, namely Allan Miller, Andrew Roddy, and myself. We had been notified by the event organizers (new this year, different from last year's event organizers) several days ago that they were permitting us to give demo rides in our EVs at the event, just as had been the case last year. Now, however, late on a Friday afternoon, near the close of business and just 42 hours before the start of the event, the event organizers have thrown us a curve ball and pulled the rug out from under us by informing us of a last-minute requirement that they are just now saddling us with for the demo rides -- that in order to give demo rides, they are requiring us to go out and purchase separate, special event liability insurance that indemnifies the venue host, Miami-Dade County in this case, from any third-party liability claims resulting from this demo ride activity. Not only is it too late for us to go out and purchase such event liability coverage, now after the close of business on a Friday afternoon, but furthermore the Florida EAA does not have the funds and budget to do this, with the sole exception of our one event a year where we do this -- BBB. We generally decline to participate in events where the organizers demand special event liability indemnity coverage from us. Having said that, it is still the case that we can bring our EVs to this event and exhibit them, but solely on static display. Sorry to be the messenger of bad news on this change of policy and plans for Sunday's Key Biscayne EarthFest event. Charles Whalen Florida EAA ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] EVs at 2 Miami events on Sunday April 20
Green Apple Festival at Bicentennial Park (Noon - 7pm) -- 1) Cliff Rassweiler, ProEV's electric Imp 2) Lowell Simmons, Miramar High's electric Porsche 944 No demo rides allowed. No charging facilities available. No boothing materials (tents, tables, chairs) provided by event organizers. Cliff will bring his 10x10 pop-up tent. Key Biscayne EarthFest (10am - 8pm) - 1) Allan Miller's electric VW Cabriolet 2) Andrew Roddy's AC Propulsion eBox 3) Charles Whalen's Vectrix electric motorcycle Demo rides are allowed, with the signing of liability waiver forms by participants (those given rides). Liability waiver forms will be provided by event organizers. First row of the parking lot will be cordoned off for our vehicles and demo rides. No charging facilities available. 10x10 tent, table, and 2 chairs will be provided and set up for us by the event organizers near our vehicles. ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] EVs at 2 Miami events on Sunday April 20
Sure Fran, would be glad to, after we get it at Sunday's event. But unless you are piggybacking on someone else's events for your summer tour, you probably won't need it. If you are organizing your own tour stops and not making them a part of larger events that are already taking place, then *you* are obviously in charge of your own event and can decide to do, or not do, whatever you want and be as informal as you'd like. That is how things have worked for us here. But in any case, we'll try to get some extra copies of the liability waiver forms that Miami-Dade County uses and will provide for the demo rides at the Key Biscayne EarthFest this coming Sunday. Charles - Original Message - From: Fran Sullivan-Fahs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org; Al Lococo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EVs at 2 Miami events on Sunday April 20 Hey Charles, Would you please email a copy of that waiver form, too? I might need that for this summer's Electric Vehicle Initiative. Thanks. Fran - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Al Lococo [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EVs at 2 Miami events on Sunday April 20 Al, We don't yet have them but will be provided with them by the event organizers at the event on Sunday. We'll try to remember to grab and keep a few extra at the end of the event so that we can have these on hand as samples. Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Al Lococo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EVs at 2 Miami events on Sunday April 20 Sorry for the blank Post. Cab you share the waiver form used for the ride and drive? I'm interested. Cheers, Al Lococo - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Florida EAA ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: [FLEAA] EVs at 2 Miami events on Sunday April 20 Green Apple Festival at Bicentennial Park (Noon - 7pm) -- 1) Cliff Rassweiler, ProEV's electric Imp 2) Lowell Simmons, Miramar High's electric Porsche 944 No demo rides allowed. No charging facilities available. No boothing materials (tents, tables, chairs) provided by event organizers. Cliff will bring his 10x10 pop-up tent. Key Biscayne EarthFest (10am - 8pm) - 1) Allan Miller's electric VW Cabriolet 2) Andrew Roddy's AC Propulsion eBox 3) Charles Whalen's Vectrix electric motorcycle Demo rides are allowed, with the signing of liability waiver forms by participants (those given rides). Liability waiver forms will be provided by event organizers. First row of the parking lot will be cordoned off for our vehicles and demo rides. No charging facilities available. 10x10 tent, table, and 2 chairs will be provided and set up for us by the event organizers near our vehicles. ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1383 - Release Date: 4/17/2008 9:00 AM ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1383 - Release Date: 4/17/2008 9:00 AM ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] liability waiver forms
Al, I'm not sure what events you're referring to that I mentioned. If it's the two Earth Day events in Miami this weekend, only one of them requires a liability waiver form, and we already know who is and who isn't attending, as I have already posted the list of EV owners who've confirmed they're attending. If, on the other hand, you're referring to Fran's statewide PHEV promotion trip this summer, I think it's quite obvious that none of us are going to be able to attend most of those events, because of course Fran is covering the entire state of Florida, from the Pandhandle to the Keys and east coast to west coast. Some (hopefully many) of us will attend Fran's tour stops in our local area, schedule permitting. So I'm not really sure what your point is about most events that you won't be attending. As for the feasibility of posting a hard-copy paper form on this list and how one would go about doing that (e.g. scanning it and then what digital file type to put that in, jpeg, pdf, etc., and then trying to post that to this list), I'm afraid you're asking the wrong person that question, as that is far out of my realm. You should probably address that question to Shawn. One of us at the Key Biscayne event, either Allan, Andrew, or myself, will try to get some extra copies of that liability waiver form and give it to someone who can help you in whatever it is you're seeking to do with it. BTW, I thought I already made the point quite clear in my previous posts that we would try to get copies of that form to whoever asks for it, as I believe you already did and I already answered you. Best regards, Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Al Lococo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: liability waiver forms Charles, I undeerstand you don't have copies now, but when you do, is there any reason why we can't just post it here on the list? I won't be able to attend most of the events you mention. Cheers, Al Lococo - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Florida EAA ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EVs at 2 Miami events on Sunday April 20 Sure Fran, would be glad to, after we get it at Sunday's event. But unless you are piggybacking on someone else's events for your summer tour, you probably won't need it. If you are organizing your own tour stops and not making them a part of larger events that are already taking place, then *you* are obviously in charge of your own event and can decide to do, or not do, whatever you want and be as informal as you'd like. That is how things have worked for us here. But in any case, we'll try to get some extra copies of the liability waiver forms that Miami-Dade County uses and will provide for the demo rides at the Key Biscayne EarthFest this coming Sunday. Charles - Original Message - From: Fran Sullivan-Fahs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org; Al Lococo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EVs at 2 Miami events on Sunday April 20 Hey Charles, Would you please email a copy of that waiver form, too? I might need that for this summer's Electric Vehicle Initiative. Thanks. Fran - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Al Lococo [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EVs at 2 Miami events on Sunday April 20 Al, We don't yet have them but will be provided with them by the event organizers at the event on Sunday. We'll try to remember to grab and keep a few extra at the end of the event so that we can have these on hand as samples. Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Al Lococo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] EVs at 2 Miami events on Sunday April 20 Sorry for the blank Post. Cab you share the waiver form used for the ride and drive? I'm interested. Cheers, Al Lococo - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Florida EAA ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: [FLEAA] EVs at 2 Miami events on Sunday April 20 Green Apple Festival at Bicentennial Park (Noon - 7pm) -- 1) Cliff Rassweiler, ProEV's electric Imp 2) Lowell Simmons, Miramar High's electric Porsche 944 No demo rides allowed. No charging facilities available. No boothing materials (tents, tables, chairs) provided by event organizers. Cliff will bring his 10x10 pop-up tent. Key Biscayne EarthFest (10am - 8pm
Re: [FLEAA] list of upcoming events
Hi all, Just got a new update on the Key Biscayne EarthFest coming up this Sunday, April 20. The event organizers just wrote me that their supervisors have given their approval for us to give demo rides. They are going to provide liability waiver forms that we will have to get people to sign before we can give them rides. Charles Whalen Florida EAA -- On Tuesday, April 15, 2008 1:27 AM, I wrote: Subject: Re: list of upcoming events Hi all, Andrew Roddy asked me in a post earlier today if I could provide a revised list of upcoming events. Here below is an annotated update on upcoming events. Best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA Saturday April 19 --- 1) Deerfield Beach Earth Day Event S. Ocean Way between E. Hillsborough Blvd. and SE 4th St. 10am - 4pm This event has apparently not come together and has again been cancelled this year or is extremely scaled down and absolutely minimal. Event organizer Cheryl Miller has not contacted us about exhibiting this year, as she always did in the past. FLEAA member Harvey Bennett had contacted Cheryl Miller and planned to contact the Mayor and City Commissioners of Deerfield Beach with regard to attempting to re-establish support for this event, but we have not heard anything from Harvey on this. 2) Vero Beach Earth Day Event Riverside Park, Vero Beach 12pm - 6 pm This event is on, as scheduled, but I don't believe there will be any EVs there. FLEAA member Jonathan Ortiz of Foreign Affairs had planned to deliver 5 Vectrix electric motorcycles at this event but had to reschedule these deliveries due to scheduling conflicts. I was planning to attend but have decided not to after Jonathan Ortiz pulled out. 3) Stuart Earth Day Event This event has apparently been cancelled due to loss of the venue. This same loss of venue has apparently resulted in the loss of our charging station there in Stuart. I will have to check on this situation with regard to our charging station there the next time I am up that way. Sunday April 20 -- 1) Key Biscayne EarthFest Biscayne Nature Center, Crandon Park Key Biscayne, FL 10am - 6pm This event has been radically scaled down from last year and will be just a low-budget shell of what it was last year, with likely only a couple hundred people attending vs. a couple thousand last year. There will be no major media coverage this year, unlike last year when every single Miami TV station was there. Expectations need to be greatly lowered for this year's event vis-a-vis last year. There has been a change of organizers this year, with the event being handed off to a couple of low-level staffers, vs. last year's event which was organized and promoted by three of Miami's best-connected, high-powered enviro movers shakers. Demo rides will apparently not be allowed at this year's event. Static display only. The event organizers this year are very slow in responding to emails, taking over a week turnaround. I have written them again this evening and am passing the baton off to Allan Miller, who is going to run with this and try to get the ball rolling on this for us. Allan is on Key Biscayne every day and is going to visit the Biscayne Nature Center either tomorrow or Wednesday to try to expedite finalizing the details of our participation. So far, there are two FLEAA members planning to attend this event -- Allan Miller with his electric VW Cabriolet and Andrew Roddy with his AC Propulsion eBox. If anyone else would like to bring an EV to this event, please contact Allan Miller at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Green Apple Festival Bicentennial Park Downtown Miami 1pm - 6pm This is the first year for this event. The primary event organizer is very far off-site and remote, in Berkeley, California, and is organizing 8 such simultaneous Green Apple Festivals in 8 major cities around the country on the same day. This same event organizer is wildly optimistic in claiming that there will be 20,000 people attending this event in Miami. The only basis he has for making such outlandish claims is that this figure of 20,000 people is apparently the number of people that attended this event last year in San Francisco. But Miami is not San Francisco, and I would frankly be very surprised if more than a few hundred people show up at this event. From what I've heard from someone who knows, they are desperately seeking exhibitors, and that is consistent with my communications with them and the vibes I get. Nevertheless, I am planning to attend this event together with Cliff Rassweiler, who will be bringing ProEV's electric Subaru Impreza race car. I haven't decided yet whether I will bring my Vectrix bike or my RAV4-EV. We are not allowed to give demo rides. Static display only. They are not providing any booths, tents, tables, chairs, etc., ... merely space for exhibitors to put up their own tents, tables
Re: [FLEAA] FAU Environment Awareness Day
Sarah -- I'm writing both you and Paul here. Paul is an American Airlines pilot who is away and out of touch for a few days at a time, given his flight schedule, so it might be a day or two until he responds to this. Paul drives a Toyota RAV4-EV. Paul -- Sarah is the President of the FAU Jupiter Enviro Club. You said that you would be willing and interested in attending FAU Jupiter's Environmental Awareness Day coming up on Thursday this week, and you had asked me for a list of enroute charging locations for you to be able to get up there and back home to Ft. Lauderdale, which I had sent you (and would be happy to resend you, if you don't still have it). Are you still willing and able to attend? Sarah -- I'll also send this is out over the FLEAA discussion list again to see if there is anyone else who can make it. (I had done so previously and Paul Renneisen was the only person who responded that he could make it.) Thanks best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA - Original Message - From: Sarah Fannin To: Charles Whalen Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 2:57 PM Subject: FAU Environment Awareness Day Charles, I still haven't heard back from Paul about coming to FAU Jupiter on Thursday. Please let me know if you've heard anything from him or from any other FLEAA members who might be interested. Thanks! Sarah ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] FAU Environment Awareness Day
3pm to 7pm, I believe. Sarah can confirm. - Original Message - From: Andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Charles Whalen' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'FLEAA Mailing List' listserv@floridaeaa.org; 'Sarah Fannin' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Paul Renneisen' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:51 PM Subject: RE: [FLEAA] FAU Environment Awareness Day Hello, I might be able to make this event with my car. What time does it start? Andrew -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Whalen Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:07 PM To: Sarah Fannin; Paul Renneisen Cc: Florida EAA Subject: Re: [FLEAA] FAU Environment Awareness Day Sarah -- I'm writing both you and Paul here. Paul is an American Airlines pilot who is away and out of touch for a few days at a time, given his flight schedule, so it might be a day or two until he responds to this. Paul drives a Toyota RAV4-EV. Paul -- Sarah is the President of the FAU Jupiter Enviro Club. You said that you would be willing and interested in attending FAU Jupiter's Environmental Awareness Day coming up on Thursday this week, and you had asked me for a list of enroute charging locations for you to be able to get up there and back home to Ft. Lauderdale, which I had sent you (and would be happy to resend you, if you don't still have it). Are you still willing and able to attend? Sarah -- I'll also send this is out over the FLEAA discussion list again to see if there is anyone else who can make it. (I had done so previously and Paul Renneisen was the only person who responded that he could make it.) Thanks best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA - Original Message - From: Sarah Fannin To: Charles Whalen Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 2:57 PM Subject: FAU Environment Awareness Day Charles, I still haven't heard back from Paul about coming to FAU Jupiter on Thursday. Please let me know if you've heard anything from him or from any other FLEAA members who might be interested. Thanks! Sarah ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: 4/14/2008 9:26 AM ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] list of upcoming events
Hi all, Andrew Roddy asked me in a post earlier today if I could provide a revised list of upcoming events. Here below is an annotated update on upcoming events. Best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA Saturday April 19 --- 1) Deerfield Beach Earth Day Event S. Ocean Way between E. Hillsborough Blvd. and SE 4th St. 10am - 4pm This event has apparently not come together and has again been cancelled this year or is extremely scaled down and absolutely minimal. Event organizer Cheryl Miller has not contacted us about exhibiting this year, as she always did in the past. FLEAA member Harvey Bennett had contacted Cheryl Miller and planned to contact the Mayor and City Commissioners of Deerfield Beach with regard to attempting to re-establish support for this event, but we have not heard anything from Harvey on this. 2) Vero Beach Earth Day Event Riverside Park, Vero Beach 12pm - 6 pm This event is on, as scheduled, but I don't believe there will be any EVs there. FLEAA member Jonathan Ortiz of Foreign Affairs had planned to deliver 5 Vectrix electric motorcycles at this event but had to reschedule these deliveries due to scheduling conflicts. I was planning to attend but have decided not to after Jonathan Ortiz pulled out. 3) Stuart Earth Day Event This event has apparently been cancelled due to loss of the venue. This same loss of venue has apparently resulted in the loss of our charging station there in Stuart. I will have to check on this situation with regard to our charging station there the next time I am up that way. Sunday April 20 -- 1) Key Biscayne EarthFest Biscayne Nature Center, Crandon Park Key Biscayne, FL 10am - 6pm This event has been radically scaled down from last year and will be just a low-budget shell of what it was last year, with likely only a couple hundred people attending vs. a couple thousand last year. There will be no major media coverage this year, unlike last year when every single Miami TV station was there. Expectations need to be greatly lowered for this year's event vis-a-vis last year. There has been a change of organizers this year, with the event being handed off to a couple of low-level staffers, vs. last year's event which was organized and promoted by three of Miami's best-connected, high-powered enviro movers shakers. Demo rides will apparently not be allowed at this year's event. Static display only. The event organizers this year are very slow in responding to emails, taking over a week turnaround. I have written them again this evening and am passing the baton off to Allan Miller, who is going to run with this and try to get the ball rolling on this for us. Allan is on Key Biscayne every day and is going to visit the Biscayne Nature Center either tomorrow or Wednesday to try to expedite finalizing the details of our participation. So far, there are two FLEAA members planning to attend this event -- Allan Miller with his electric VW Cabriolet and Andrew Roddy with his AC Propulsion eBox. If anyone else would like to bring an EV to this event, please contact Allan Miller at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Green Apple Festival Bicentennial Park Downtown Miami 1pm - 6pm This is the first year for this event. The primary event organizer is very far off-site and remote, in Berkeley, California, and is organizing 8 such simultaneous Green Apple Festivals in 8 major cities around the country on the same day. This same event organizer is wildly optimistic in claiming that there will be 20,000 people attending this event in Miami. The only basis he has for making such outlandish claims is that this figure of 20,000 people is apparently the number of people that attended this event last year in San Francisco. But Miami is not San Francisco, and I would frankly be very surprised if more than a few hundred people show up at this event. From what I've heard from someone who knows, they are desperately seeking exhibitors, and that is consistent with my communications with them and the vibes I get. Nevertheless, I am planning to attend this event together with Cliff Rassweiler, who will be bringing ProEV's electric Subaru Impreza race car. I haven't decided yet whether I will bring my Vectrix bike or my RAV4-EV. We are not allowed to give demo rides. Static display only. They are not providing any booths, tents, tables, chairs, etc., ... merely space for exhibitors to put up their own tents, tables, and chairs that exhibitors must bring themselves. Cliff Rassweiler is planning on bringing his 10'x10' pop-up tent. If anyone else would like to bring an EV to this event, please contact me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Saturday April 26 -- 10th Annual Ft. Pierce EV Rally Advance Auto Parts 4158 Okeechobee Road Ft. Pierce, FL 11am - 4pm Many EVs on exhibit, Ride 'N Drive Wednesday April 30 12th Annual Solar Celebration MAST Academy High School
[FLEAA] April 11-12 schedule of events in Miami w/ Chelsea Sexton
Hi everyone, Here below is the schedule of events with Chelsea Sexton this weekend in Miami. Everyone is welcome at both events, which are open to the public and free of charge. All EVs are welcome and encouraged to participate at both events; the more the merrier! Best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA Friday, April 11 -- Miami City Hall 3500 Pan American Drive Miami, FL 33133 5:00-6:45pm: Electric car Ride 'n Drive demonstrations in front of Miami City Hall with Chelsea Sexton, Miami City Commissioners, City Hall staff, and the public. All EVs are welcome and encouraged to participate in this Ride 'n Drive demonstration. 6:50-7:00pm: Opening/welcoming remarks by Miami City Commissioner Marc Sarnoff and David Whitman of Fairchild Tropical Garden. Inside Miami City Hall. 7:00-8:30pm: Showing of the film Who Killed the Electric Car?. Inside Miami City Hall. 8:30-9:00pm: Question Answer with Chelsea Sexton, immediately following the film. Inside Miami City Hall. Saturday, April 12 - Fairchild Tropical Garden 10901 Old Cutler Road Coral Gables, FL 33156 There are two entrances to Fairchild Garden, a north entrance and a south entrance. You should use the south entrance, which is where the event is being held. All electric cars should be in place at Fairchild Garden by 11:00am. 11:30am-12:15pm 2:15-3:00pm: Ride 'n Drive demonstrations of electric cars, outside near the Garden House. All EVs are welcome and encouraged to participate in this Ride 'n Drive demo. 12:15-1:00pm: Presentation by Chelsea Sexton, electric vehicle activist featured in the award-winning documentary film Who Killed the Electric Car?. In the Corbin Building. 1:00-1:30pm: Miami-Dade County high school students will be setting up their research projects for judging, and the judges will be in orientation sessions. Good time for a lunch break for us is 1:00-2:00pm. 1:30-3:00pm: Research Projects Showcase. Garden House and lawn. Miami-Dade County high school students competing in the annual Fairchild Challenge present their innovative research projects in five areas: Green cuisine Everglades skyways models Solar inventions, widgets, gizmos Dream in Green school energy audits Seed germination: Florida native plants 3:00-3:30pm: Closing ceremony ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] FAU Environment Awareness Day
Hi all, I just got this invitation, which I want to pass along to you all, from FAU Jupiter Enviro Club President, Sarah Fannin, for any Florida EAA members who can make it, to exhibit their EVs at FAU Jupiter's 3rd Annual Environmental Awareness Day, on Thursday, April 17th from 3-7pm. I have let Sarah know that I myself can't make it due to other commitments, but hopefully one of you, maybe someone near Jupiter, can make it there to show your EV. We have done a number of events at and with FAU Jupiter and have a good relationship with both the university adminstration and the Enviro Club there. We've worked with Sarah on events in the past that have turned out well, including a showing of WKtEC last year with both Chelsea Sexton and Chris Paine. If you would be interested in attending this event, please contact FAU Jupiter Enviro Club President Sarah Fannin directly at: [EMAIL PROTECTED], and she can send you more information, including the flyer for the event, which I can also send you by email, if you're interested in attending. Thanks, Charles Whalen Florida EAA Delray Beach, FL [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Sarah Fannin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 2:01 PM Subject: FAU Environment Awareness Day Charles, On behalf of the FAU Enviro Club, I'd like to invite you and your organization to participate in our third annual Environment Awareness Day on Thursday, April 17th from 3-7pm on our campus here in Jupiter. The point of the event is to showcase environmentally oriented organizations, businesses, and anything else in our area to our university community. For FLEAA specifically, we were wondering if you'd like to do another electric car test drive. Everyone absolutely LOVED it the last time we did it. We'd love to have you there. I've attached a participation flier for you to fill out if you're interested. Please let me know if you have any questions. We're looking forward to hearing from you! Sarah Fannin FAU Enviro Club President ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] FAU Environment Awareness Day
Paul, First, I can't tell you how happy I am that all of us working together -- you, me, David Turock, and Andrew Roddy, and even Chelsea Sexton behind the scenes -- succeeded in getting you back up and running, back on the road and the campaign trail with David's RAV4-EV! It was truly a team effort that exemplies the best spirit of cooperation, collaboration, and camaraderie in our EV community! It's interesting to hear that the GM Gen 2+ charger is doing a better job of charging David's RAV4-EV, giving it a better and fuller charge, resulting in greater range, than his TAL did. I have often heard California RAV4-EV drivers talk about how much better the GM Gen 2+ charger is than the TAL, but I was never sure about it myself. I have a Gen 2+ charger installed at Grassroots EV in Fort Pierce that I have used many times, without problem, and it does an excellent job of charging. Second, as for it (that GM Gen 2+ charger that I left down there at David's place) being MY unit, as you referred to it, well, that *was* the case, but you and David are now the proud owners of that unit, as David has just bought it from me ... (at my cost, I might add; I have never made a profit on EVers on don't intend to). If you ever have any trouble with that unit, like if it malfunctions, stops working, whatever, just let me know, and I will replace it with another one, free of charge. Paul, since you live in the southern part of Florida's 22nd Congressional District (that you are campaigning for), I know that you are be able to get around to campaign events down there in all of Broward County without needing an intermediate opportunity charge enroute, as long as you leave home on a full charge. And that is even true for destinations in southern Palm Beach County. But for you to be able to drive the RAV4-EV to campaign events and destinations in the northern part of your district, Florida 22nd Congressional District, which basically is northern Palm Beach County, we are going to have to get you familiar with the few charging sites we've got in Delray Beach, West Palm Beach, and Palm Beach, where you will need to opportunity charge enroute in order to make it all the way up there and back home. Here are two charging sites, one in Delray Beach, and another in West Palm Beach: 1935 SW 35th Ave. Delray Beach, FL 33445 Contact: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 561-638-6881 14-50, 40A/240V TAL small-paddle inductive Outside at driveway Access: 7am-9pm, 7 days a week, other times by prior arrangement Lat/Long coordinates: 26.43640100 -80.1082 119 Datura Street West Palm Beach, FL 33401 10-30, 50A/208V 10-30, 60A/208V Outside at rear, northeast corner of building, facing parking lot Access: 24x7 Lat/Long coordinates: 26.712169 -80.049569 The one in Delray Beach is at my house. Although I have listed access as 7am-9pm, since I know you well and am an enthusiastic supporter of your campaign, you are obviously welcome to stop by here and charge at my place anytime you need to, 24x7, without any prior arrangement or calling ahead. You are always welcome here. My TAL is outside at the driveway. All you have to do is to pull up the driveway and plug the TAL into your RAV4-EV's charge port. The charging site on Datura Street in West Palm Beach is in a parking lot just off of Clematis (on the south side of Clematis), near the end of Clematis, across the street from the public library there, and immediately adjacent to E.R. Bradley's Saloon Restaurant, behind the restaurant. (Great outdoor restaurant, by the way!) You have a 10-30 plug on the end of the 50-foot charging cable that I have lent you, so you can plug into either of those two 10-30 outlets there. But you should first go into that shop at 119 Datura Street (if it is during business hours) and ask them for permission to charge from those outlets on the back of the building in the parking lot behind the shop. By the way, as for charging at my house, as I recall, last year I measured (on Mapquest), and subsequently verified by driving it, the distance from my house to FAU Jupiter to be 35 miles. So 35 miles out and 35 miles back gives a round-trip of 70 miles. That doesn't leave a whole lot of mileage for Ride 'n Drive demos up there at this event at FAU Jupiter. I attended this specific event last year and decided that to be safe and leave myself plenty of margin, I would limit any Ride 'n Drive demos to 10 miles, so as to keep my total out-and-back mileage to no more than 80 miles. (Even though the car has a range of 120 miles, I like to be safe and limit my legs between charges to no more than 85 miles, or 95 miles at the most, as I did on one occasion when I took a detour to give Matt Graham a ride back home to Hobe Sound from Fort Pierce.) So that's what I did at this event at FAU Jupiter last year. There are two other charging locations in West Palm Beach and Palm Beach, respectively, that are not yet on my charging station list (which I
Re: [FLEAA] April 20 Miami Earth Day event(s) dilemma: 2 choices
having at least an EV Autocross at Bicentennial Park. And with Steven Cayre soon to take delivery of his Tesla in Miami, ... wow! ... what kind of drawing power would that be?!?! Alan, Cliff -- Is that Bicentennial Park track layout still the same as in that ariel photo that Allan gave, or has it been torn up or deteriorated from neglect with multiple potholes, etc. since last used? ... Speaking of which, by the way, when was it last used for racing? ... Miami Vice vintage era late 80s? Anything more recent than that? Charles (always the dreamer :-) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] April 20 Miami Earth Day event(s) dilemma: 2 choices Hi Charles (and everyone) Here are my thoughts. Bicentennial Park is huge, so it takes a large crowd to fill the place...which I am assuming they are expecting. To understand the scale of big, they used to have auto races in the park (see link). So, there is a chance that most of the crowd would never pass by a booth. Or maybe we could actually drive on the track. I do not know. I think I have seen them setting up this event. There are several vendor booths setup next to the port-o-potties. If my memory serves me, there looked to be about 20-50 booths (maybe for food vendors). I am also not sure if the organizers are going to sell tickets. And the demographic they are targeting seems to be the under 30 crowd. If our purpose for participating is public awareness then this could be a good venue. So there seems to be large potential...but also a large chance that it would be an in-effective venue. http://bayfrontparkmiami.com/media/bicentenial_aerial.jpg As Charles implies, the Key Biscayne festival is a better setup. Even if it is not promoted very well, there are the loyal residents of Key Biscayne that will give it word of mouth promoting. Also, it is setup at Crandon Park on the beach, so you are guaranteed a few hundred folks every weekend. If the purpose of participating in the event is new EAA members, then this is a great venue, but may or may not be a good public awareness venue. Just my 2 cents, Allan P.S. I am planning on participating in the Key Biscayne Event (if they want me). P.S.S I participated in the Key Biscayne Green festival in Feb, and had a great reception from the crowd. Quoting Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi everyone, This is addressed to everyone but especially those in South Florida who would like to exhibit their EVs in Miami on Sunday April 20 at an Earth Day event there. I am especially interested in Allan Miller's take on this, as he is local and closest to both of these venues and as such knows them best. The problem is that there are two different Earth Day events taking place in Miami on the same day, Sunday April 20, at two different locations. The two are separately organized, and neither has anything to do with the other. We have been invited to exhibit at both. The decision we have to make, for those interested in exhibiting their EVs at an Earth Day event in Miami on April 20, is which one do we choose to go to? Or maybe would some of us like to choose one of the two events and others choose the other event? I don't think it really has to be a group decision (which with as individualistic a group as EVers are, can be like trying to herd cats :-) but rather should left to each individual in terms of which event you want to attend. I will list the two events and what I see as the pros and cons of each. These pros and cons are just my own opinion, and I may be way off base on some of this, especially not being from Miami, which is why I'd really like to get Allan Miller's take on this. The two events are: 1) The Green Apple Festival Earth Day Celebration, being held in Bicentennial Park, and 2) The Key Biscayne EarthFest, being held at the Biscayne Nature Center in Crandon Park on Key Biscayne. -- 1) The Green Apple Festival Earth Day Celebration, being held in Bicentennial Park www.greenapplemusicfestival.com//index.php?option=com_contenttask=blogcategoryid=17Itemid=34 Pros: a) I'm not entirely sure about this, but this event *may* have a bigger promotional/publicity/advertising budget this year than the Key Biscayne EarthFest. This is a large nationally-based organization with a national series of events that are taking place simultaneously in 8 cities around the country: Washington DC, New York, Miami, Chicago, Denver, Dallas, LA, and San Francisco. This could be seen as either a positive or a negative, possibly a positive from a promotional/publicity/ advertising budget point of view, but a negative in other ways, as I will discuss below. Bands that have confirmed they will be playing: Menudo (the pre-pubescent Latin boys group), and hip-hop group Arrested
Re: [FLEAA] FAU Environment Awareness Day
Fran, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have never seen EVs as a partisan political issue and don't believe it is or rightly can be characterized that way. Of the hundreds of people I know who drive EVs, work in the EV industry, etc., it's amazing how fairly evenly split they are between Democrats and Republicans. And it's also amazing how polite and courteous they all toward each other and how civil the discourse is between them all, even the somewhat more politically-tending discourse. There's a good reason for that. It's because EVs are the one thing that unites us all -- Democrats, Republicans, Greens, Libertarians, Independents, third parties, etc. I myself am an Independent and am not a partisan political type. But I have always exercised my right to vote, which I feel is an important civic duty and responsibility. And I am interested in getting involved in the political process for the purpose of advocating and promoting our cause -- EVs. In particular, I am interested, willing, and passionate about actively supporting any politician, of whatever stripe or party (it doesn't matter and makes no difference to me), who supports EVs. In this campaign season, I am actively supporting, and financially contributing to, two politicians (in both of whose respective voting districts I live) who are EV supporters -- one a Democrat, Paul Renneisen for Congress in Florida's 22nd District, and the other a Republican, my state representative, Adam Hasner, who has long been and continues to be the leader and strongest supporter of Alternative Fuel initiatives in the Florida State House of Representatives. I am extremely impressed with Rep. Hasner, whom I met in Tallahassee last week, and his knowledge of and passion for EVs. He and his wife both drive hybrids back at home here in the district, in Boca Raton. It turns out that Rep. Hasner has got some key inside connections at Tesla and knows a lot more than I do about what's going on inside Tesla. Adam is a big EV fan and enthusiast. This EV thing has never been a Democrat vs. Republican partisan issue. It is far too important and critical to our nation's future than that. Smart, intelligent, knowledgeable, well-informed politicians like Democrat Paul Renneisen and Republican Adam Hasner recognize that and the fact that this is a *national* issue that is way above petty partisan politics. I can tell you from knowing and working with both of them, that smart, savvy Democrats like Paul Renneisen and smart, savvy Republicans like Adam Hasner have a lot more in common than they do that separates them. We are all in this struggle together -- Democrats, Republicans, Libertariains, Greens, and Independents -- first and foremost as AMERICANS!!! There is, quite unfortunately, one particular EV discussion list where there are a sizeable number of people who lack the education, intellect, intelligence, and maturity to discuss political issues surrounding EVs in a civil, courteous manner without the discussion degenerating into personal insults, attacks, and flame wars. I am very happy and proud that we here in the Florida EAA have never had such problems and that we all exhibit the kind of maturity and intelligence to engage in civil discussion. Having said that, I do however think it is probably a waste of our time and bandwidth, and basically irrelevant to us, to engage in any kind of extended political discussions that stray off topic from EVs. But on the other hand, I do think it's appropriate and relevant to our FLEAA discussion list to at least acknowledge those politicians in our state, like Democrat Paul Renneisen and Republicans Adam Hasner and Lee Constantine, who are enthusiastic EV supporters. One may or may not vote for any one of them due to other, unrelated issues, which we need not discuss here, but I think we all support their respective championing of the EV Alt. Fuel cause and thank them for their contributions in that field. I myself never voted for President George W. Bush, because I have always differed with him on too many important issues, but I am grateful to President Bush for having repeatedly admonished the American people several times for our nation's addiction to foreign oil. I acknowledge the important contribution President Bush has made in advancing our cause by highlighting this issue to the American people. There are always reasonable and balanced ways for us to discuss these things with a modicum of discretion, respect, and by sticking to the central issue of EVs. Charles Whalen Delray Beach - Original Message - From: Fran Sullivan-Fahs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] FAU Environment Awareness Day Charles, I am just speaking as a member (and a new one at that), but I don' t see how any of us can object to an Ev person who is running for Congress getting a little support
[FLEAA] 2008 BBB film now available on DVD
Hi everyone, Just passing along an email we got from Michael Blauberg of Daytona Beach letting us know that he has finished production of a film of this year's January 2008 Battery Beach Burnout that he shot in high-definition, which he is selling and is now available for purchase on DVD at www.evenergyfilms.com. I don't have any financial relationship or involvement with Michael and the production of this film, so I'm just passing along the info. Michael has done several conversions in Daytona Beach and has made a couple of EV related short documentary films, I believe. I first met him at last year's SunDay Challenge at FSEC in Cocoa and then saw him again at BBB in January as he was filming the event. If you'd like to contact Michael Blauberg, his email address is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA Delray Beach ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] WKtEC showing in Miramar, March 18, 170+ people
No worries, Fran ... there will be *LOTS* of EV folks up there next week, and *LOTS* of EVs (at least by N. Florida standards)! I've sent you the info this morning by Priority Mail, which you should get by Wednesday. BTW, speaking of the event in Miramar tomorrow, either the event organizer or Jonathan Ortiz must have made a mistake in transposing a 7 and 0 when they originally said that they have received 170 RSVPs for the event. The event organizer corrected herself today and said that the real number is only 107, not 170. Anyway, even 107 is still a very big event compared to most that we've done. Charles Whalen Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:46:08 -0400 From: Fran Sullivan-Fahs [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [FLEAA] WKtEC showing in Miramar, March 18, 170+ people To: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org You guys in South Florida have all the fun! I am totally jealous! Ok, ok, I need to get some things rolling up in N. Florida, but I am having trouble finding some EV folks up here. Whine, whine, whine... OK, can do! Fran ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] WKtEC showing in Miramar, March 18, 170+ people
Hi all, There will be a showing of the movie Who Killed the Electric Car? together with an EV demo at Miramar City Hall this coming Tuesday evening, March 18, from 6pm to 8pm, hosted under the auspices of the US Green Building Council, Broward County Chapter. The EV demo has been organized by FLEAA member Jonathan Ortiz of Foreign Affairs Auto in W. Palm Beach. The event host/organizer, Jaclyn Meli of the US Green Building Council, Broward County Chapter, told me that she has already received RSVPs from 170 people confirming that they will be there at this event. This will be the biggest, best organized, best attended WKtEC movie showing EV demo that we have ever done, by far! The specific location for the event is the Miramar Chamber of Commerce, which is nestled inside the new Miramar City Hall complex. The venue holds 220 people. The address is 2300 Civic Center Place Miramar, FL 33025. For those of you bringing EVs, I would suggest arriving early for setup, preferably by 5pm. I myself, coming from up north, am planning to arrive earlier in the afternoon in order to avoid the afternoon rush-hour congestion on I-95. The following EVs will be at this event: Zap Xebra -- Jonathan Ortiz, Foreign Affairs Auto, W. Palm Beach Zenn -- Jonathan Ortiz, Foreign Affairs Auto, W. Palm Beach Vectrix electric motorcycle -- Charles Whalen, Delray Beach Electric Porsche 944 -- Lowell Simmons and his students, Miramar High School AC Propulsion eBox -- Andrew Roddy, Palm Beach Subaru Impreza electric race car -- Cliff Rassweiler, ProEV, Miami Toyota RAV4-EV -- Capt. Paul Renneisen, American Airlines US Congressional candidate, Ft. Lauderdale All are welcome! Look forward to seeing everyone there! Charles Whalen Florida EAA tel: 561-638-6881 cell: 561-251-2387 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] invitation to exhibit at Goby Fest, Melbourne, April 5
Hi All, I just received this invitation for the FLEAA to exhibit EVs at the 4th Annual Goby Fest (www.nbbd.com/npr/cpa/gobyfest/index.html) in the Melbourne area on Saturday, April 5th. There would be no exhibitor charge for the FLEAA as a non-profit, educational organization. I myself will not be able to make it to this event. Are there any of you in the Space Coast/Treasure Coast area that would be interested in attending and exhibiting your EVs, e.g. Jerry Wagner and Mark Haines in Melbourne, Ted Blumstein in Vero Beach, Steve Clunn in Ft.Pierce? If so, you can contact the event organizer, Suzanne Valencia, of the Coastal Preserves Alliance in Melbourne, at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 321-984-0604. I will let Suzanne know that I have passed her invitation along to the entire FLEAA membership. Thanks, Charles Whalen Delray Beach, FL - Original Message - From: Suzanne Valencia To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 9:00 AM Subject: Electric car display at Goby Fest Hello Charles, I just spoke with Jay Wherley and he suggested that I contact you. He responded to the message below and said that he would have a table at our event and I am hoping that you would do the same. I am on the board of the Coastal Preserves Alliance which sponsors Goby Fest as a fund raiser for the St. Sebastian River Preserve State Park (formerly the buffer preserve) plus 4 other state preserves. I was talking to Sam McGee yesterday after I saw her bio-diesel vehicle in the parking lot of the park. I have wanted to get bio-diesel and hybrid vehicles to display at the festival and am wondering if you might consider that? You would be classified as Environmental Education and there would be no charge. I have attached the Exhibitor Application and hope you will consider. Thanks for your consideration. Suzanne Valencia 410 Lemon Grove Avenue W. Melbourne, FL 32904 (321) 984-0604 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] battery patent
You can do a search and look up the patents on the website of the US Patent Trademark Office (www.uspto.gov). Don Francis of the Atlanta EAA chapter looked them up several months ago as part of a private distribution email thread on the subject of trying to get substitute/replacement batteries for Toyota RAV4-EVs. The patents expire on December 31, 2014. Charles Whalen Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:15:40 -0400 From: David, FloridaAME [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FLEAA] battery patent To: ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone know the patent number(s) involved? David ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] SunDay Challenge Range
Thanksgiving is Nov. 27. I personally feel that the weekend of Nov. 15-16 is a bit too close to the holidays. But I think either the first or second weekend of November would be fine -- Nov. 1-2 or 8-9. Election day (the big presidential election) is Tuesday Nov. 4, so it might be hard for Bill to get much media attention for the event if we do it that preceding weekend of Nov. 1-2 just two days before the election, with all the frenzy and focus on the election. So maybe the following weekend of Nov. 8-9 would be better? Charles - Original Message - From: Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA) To: 'FLEAA Mailing List' Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] SunDay Challenge Range Can we do it the first weekend in Nov? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Young Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 2:38 PM To: Charles Whalen; Bill Young; FLEAA Mailing List Subject: Re: [FLEAA] SunDay Challenge Range Hi I have been talk around and now favor november 15-16 for SDC and Odyssey Day AFV workshop on October 3. Is this too close to the holidays.? Bill From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; listserv@floridaeaa.org Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 15:44:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [FLEAA] SunDay Challenge Range Hi Bill and everyone, While the event calendar for March is usually pretty much wide open with not that much going on, especially compared to April, when there are 8 or more events going on, I think the FLEAA as an organization, and its leadership, need to have a general discussion with some careful thought and deliberation on this issue of when to schedule our two biggest annual events, BBB and SDC, going forward, including in relation to Electric Dragin' on the west coast, another variable and wild card, new this year, that also needs to be taken into consideration. This discussion should take place openly among the entire FLEAA membership, with everyone's ideas and thoughts solicited and welcomed, and should obviously include the principals who have been most active in organizing and working on the two respective events. This could take place via email, this list, as well as at one of our monthly meetings in Boca Raton, either during or after the general meeting, for anyone who wants to stay and participate in the discussion. So Bill, could you make it down here to Boca for one of our monthly meetings in the next few months? I myself won't be at tomorrow's meeting as I am laid up out of commission right now with a very nasty flu. A couple of points to consider. There are pros and cons to having our BBB and the west coast's Electic Dragin' on the same weekend and possibly even within a close timeframe of a few weeks within each other. Most of the BBB principals I spoke with seem to think that there are more pros than cons. I'm ambivalent and undecided about that. For some of the same or similar reasons, I think there are definite disadvantages to having BBB and SDC too close together. ... e.g. fundraising, planning and organizational logistics, to name just a few. Another major issue is the amount of time and effort that our members have to take, expend, and put into planning to come to these two big events from some distance away, just within the state (which of course is a huge state with large distances). This is an enormous undertaking for most of our members, including all the planning and logistics of towing/trailering their EVs, or driving them long distances with multiple charging stops enroute, which can take an entire day or two in each direction. All of this needs to be thought through carefully. What is too close together in time? I don't know. Would the last weekend in January for BBB (as it currently is) and the first weekend in March for SDC be too close together? Hhhhmmm, dunno, but I'm guessing probably so. I fear that this is going to be asking too much of our members to do both events in such a short timeframe. Most will likely end up choosing to go to one or the other, thereby dissipating both events. Unfortunately we just don't have enough EVs in South and Central Florida to dissipate ourselves like this. In order to put on a good showing, we really need to have all our EVs at these two big events, or at least as many as can possibly make it. We need to think about this and take this into consideration in planning the schedule for these two events. One possibility might be to consider moving BBB up one week to the Martin Luther King three-day weekend (the third weekend in January) and then maybe do SDC on the third or fourth weekend in March. We would obviously need to avoid doing SDC on Easter weekend, however. Any thoughts on that idea? Bill, what about late October or the first half of November for SDC? I actually don't like that first weekend in October very much
[FLEAA] list of upcoming events
Hi everyone, Shawn asked me to put together a list of upcoming events that I know about for the remainder of this year so that he can update the Upcoming Events page (http://floridaeaa.org/modules/content/index.php?id=5) on the FLEAA website. Here below are the events that I am aware of. If any of you know about other events that I do not, could you please speak up here and let us know so that Shawn can add them to the list below. Thanks, Charles Whalen Wednesday Feb. 20 MAST Academy's 10th Annual Contemporary Issues In Science forum This year's topic: We've Got the Power: the Clean Approach including Alternative Transportation panel and EV exhibit 9:30 AM - 12:30 PM Fairchild Tropical Botanic Garden Visitors Center 10901 Old Cutler Road Coral Gables, FL 33156 Thursday Feb. 21 Showing of Who Killed the Electric Car? at St. Thomas University Law School 16401 NW 37th Ave. Miami Gardens, FL 33054 Film starts at 5:15pm, QA to follow EV exhibit includes Toyota RAV4-EV and AC Propulsion eBox Saturday Feb. 23 Showing of Who Killed the Electric Car? followed by EV presentation to Sierra Club Loxahatchee Chapter Green Cay Wetlands Nature Center 12800 Hagen Ranch Road Delray Beach, FL 1pm - 4pm EV exhibit includes Toyota RAV4-EV, AC Propulsion eBox, Vectrix electric motorcycle Saturday March 8 Florida EAA monthly meeting Coastal Tire Auto 35 SW 1st Ave Boca Raton, FL 9:30am - 12:30pm Saturday April 12 EV exhibit and discussion with Chelsea Sexton and Miami-Dade County high school students Fairchild Tropical Botanic Garden 10901 Old Cutler Road Coral Gables, FL 33156 11:30am - 3:30pm EV exhibit includes Miramar High School's electric Porsche 944, Toyota RAV4-EV, AC Propulsion eBox, Vectrix electric motorcycle, electric VW Cabriolet Sunday April 13 4th Annual Solar Music Fair Florida Institute of Technology 150 W. University Blvd. Melbourne, FL 32901 10am - 4pm Saturday April 19 1) Deerfield Beach Earth Day Event S. Ocean Way between E. Hillsborough Blvd. and SE 4th St. 10am - 4pm Several EVs will be exhibited 2) Vero Beach Earth Day Event Riverside Park, Vero Beach 12pm - 6 pm EV exhibit will include Vectrix electric motorcycle 3) Stuart Earth Day Event Location TBD Sunday April 20 Key Biscayne EarthFest Biscayne Nature Center, Crandon Park Key Biscayne, FL 12pm - 6pm Ride 'N Drive with several EVs (This event was a huge success last year with several hundred people attending, every single Miami TV station covering it, including live on-air coverage and interviews of EV driver) Saturday April 26 9th Annual Ft. Pierce EV Rally Advance Auto Parts 4158 Okeechobee Road Ft. Pierce, FL 11am - 4pm Many EVs on exhibit, Ride 'N Drive Thursday May 1 Broward County Clean Air Month Kick-Off Las Olas Riverfront Ft. Lauderdale, FL 11:30am - 1:30pm 2-4 EVs will be exhibited Friday May 2 12th Annual Solar Celebration MAST Academy High School 3979 Rickenbacker Causeway, Virginia Key Miami, FL 33149 10am - 2:30pm 1-3 EVs will be exhibited, Ride 'N Drive Saturday May 10 Keys GLEE Expo Marathon High School 350 Sombrero Beach Road Marathon, FL 33050 9am - 5pm 3-4 EVs will be exhibited Saturday June 14 Florida EAA monthly meeting Coastal Tire Auto 35 SW 1st Ave Boca Raton, FL 9:30am - 12:30pm Saturday July 12 Florida EAA monthly meeting Coastal Tire Auto 35 SW 1st Ave Boca Raton, FL 9:30am - 12:30pm Sunday July 20 Space Coast Progressive Fest Eau Gallie Civic Center 1551 Highland Ave. Melbourne, FL 1pm - 5pm Saturday August 9 Florida EAA monthly meeting Coastal Tire Auto 35 SW 1st Ave Boca Raton, FL 9:30am - 12:30pm Saturday Sept. 13 Florida EAA monthly meeting Coastal Tire Auto 35 SW 1st Ave Boca Raton, FL 9:30am - 12:30pm Saturday Oct. 11 Florida EAA monthly meeting Coastal Tire Auto 35 SW 1st Ave Boca Raton, FL 9:30am - 12:30pm Saturday Oct. 25 Indian River Green Expo Indian River Mall Vero Beach, FL 9am - 4pm Saturday Nov. 8 Florida EAA monthly meeting Coastal Tire Auto 35 SW 1st Ave Boca Raton, FL 9:30am - 12:30pm Saturday Dec. 13 Florida EAA monthly meeting Coastal Tire Auto 35 SW 1st Ave Boca Raton, FL 9:30am - 12:30pm ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] SunDay Challenge Range
Hi Bill and everyone, While the event calendar for March is usually pretty much wide open with not that much going on, especially compared to April, when there are 8 or more events going on, I think the FLEAA as an organization, and its leadership, need to have a general discussion with some careful thought and deliberation on this issue of when to schedule our two biggest annual events, BBB and SDC, going forward, including in relation to Electric Dragin' on the west coast, another variable and wild card, new this year, that also needs to be taken into consideration. This discussion should take place openly among the entire FLEAA membership, with everyone's ideas and thoughts solicited and welcomed, and should obviously include the principals who have been most active in organizing and working on the two respective events. This could take place via email, this list, as well as at one of our monthly meetings in Boca Raton, either during or after the general meeting, for anyone who wants to stay and participate in the discussion. So Bill, could you make it down here to Boca for one of our monthly meetings in the next few months? I myself won't be at tomorrow's meeting as I am laid up out of commission right now with a very nasty flu. A couple of points to consider. There are pros and cons to having our BBB and the west coast's Electic Dragin' on the same weekend and possibly even within a close timeframe of a few weeks within each other. Most of the BBB principals I spoke with seem to think that there are more pros than cons. I'm ambivalent and undecided about that. For some of the same or similar reasons, I think there are definite disadvantages to having BBB and SDC too close together. ... e.g. fundraising, planning and organizational logistics, to name just a few. Another major issue is the amount of time and effort that our members have to take, expend, and put into planning to come to these two big events from some distance away, just within the state (which of course is a huge state with large distances). This is an enormous undertaking for most of our members, including all the planning and logistics of towing/trailering their EVs, or driving them long distances with multiple charging stops enroute, which can take an entire day or two in each direction. All of this needs to be thought through carefully. What is too close together in time? I don't know. Would the last weekend in January for BBB (as it currently is) and the first weekend in March for SDC be too close together? Hhhhmmm, dunno, but I'm guessing probably so. I fear that this is going to be asking too much of our members to do both events in such a short timeframe. Most will likely end up choosing to go to one or the other, thereby dissipating both events. Unfortunately we just don't have enough EVs in South and Central Florida to dissipate ourselves like this. In order to put on a good showing, we really need to have all our EVs at these two big events, or at least as many as can possibly make it. We need to think about this and take this into consideration in planning the schedule for these two events. One possibility might be to consider moving BBB up one week to the Martin Luther King three-day weekend (the third weekend in January) and then maybe do SDC on the third or fourth weekend in March. We would obviously need to avoid doing SDC on Easter weekend, however. Any thoughts on that idea? Bill, what about late October or the first half of November for SDC? I actually don't like that first weekend in October very much because it is still in the peak of hurricane season. Too much risk of losing all the planning/organizational effort put into it and the funds that have been raised. I think the last weekend of October or the first or second weekend of November would be better. Did your management there at FSEC give you any reason why they don't want you to do SDC in the fall? Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Bill Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] SunDay Challenge Range Hi Sorry, but my management want to change the SunDay Challenge date to March 2009. Do you know of another date them that would be good. Bill == William Young Florida Solar Energy Center Senior Research Engineer University of Central Florida Clean Cities Coordinator Space Coast Clean Cities Coalition (321) 638 - 1443 1679 Clearlake Road (321) 638 - 1010 fax Cocoa, Florida 32922 www.fsec.ucf.edu (321) 638 - 1000 www.clean-cities.org www.energyfordisasters.org www.redrf.org
Re: [FLEAA] Great time at BBB!
Hi Bill and all, Cliff Rassweiler, Andrew Roddy, and myself all have over 100 mile range on our EVs, so no problem there for us on the range issue for the SunDay Challenge road rally. Could those of you with lead-acid conversions please answer Bill's question below about whether your cars can manage 35 miles? How about 47 miles? I guess to some extent it depends on the speed driven. ... Which is a question back to you, Bill: What roads and speeds are you anticipating for this year's SunDay Challenge road rally? If you're talking about 45 mph or less, I'd guess many could go 35 miles. At 35 mph or less, I'd think a fair number could go 47 miles. But if there are substantial portions of the course at 50 mph and above, that might be a problem for many of our lead-acid conversions to make those kind of range numbers. I don't know; you guys with lead-acid conversions who would like to participate in this event again this year please chime in on this. Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Bill Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Cc: EVs for Sale DL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Great time at BBB! HI I am glade the BBB went well, sorry, I was at another event that day. We are planning the next SunDay Challenge. Question Is 35 miles to far for your cars to drive.? What about 47 miles.? Bill == William Young Florida Solar Energy Center Senior Research Engineer University of Central Florida Clean Cities Coordinator Space Coast Clean Cities Coalition (321) 638 - 1443 1679 Clearlake Road (321) 638 - 1010 fax Cocoa, Florida 32922 www.fsec.ucf.edu (321) 638 - 1000 www.clean-cities.org www.energyfordisasters.org www.redrf.org == ** This email and any files transmitted with it are Intended Solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please delete the email and notify me or the system manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] If this email was sent to you by a mailing-list, and if you want to be removed from the list, notify William Young to remove you from the list. ** Charles Whalen wrote: Ditto and second that on what a great event it was and many thanks to Shawn, Matt, Lowell, Bob, their respective wives, and everyone who helped to make it such an excellent event! As long as we're on the subject of politics (from the previous post below), in addition to also seconding the point that I myself too had some good discussions about Ron Paul at the event, I would also like to mention that we had a Congressional candidate at the event, Paul Renneisen, who actually formally announced his candidacy and kicked off his campaign at the event. Paul is an American Airlines captain who lives in Ft. Lauderdale, flies out of Miami Airport, and drives a Toyota RAV4-EV as his primary transportation and daily commuter. Captain Renneisen has managed to get his RAV4-EV designated as the official electric car of Miami International Airport and is working on getting us a charging station there. He is running in the August 2008 Democratic primary race for Florida's 22nd Congressional District, encompassing most of Broward and Palm Beach Counties, against incumbent Democratic Congressman Ron Klein. If elected, Paul would be the first ever US Congressman who drives an electric vehicle. I am not going to violate the long-respected apolitical/non-political tradition of civil EV discussion nor offend anyone's intelligence or sensibilities here by urging anyone to vote one way or another for any particular candidate, but as Glenn did in his post below regarding Ron Paul's presidential candidacy, I would just like to call your attention to EV driver Paul Renneisen's Congressional candidacy and, if you live in either Broward or Palm Beach County, ask that you give him a look and check out his campaign website at: http://www.renneisen2008.com/ If you have any interest in discussing Paul Renneisen's candidacy or political issues thereabouts, you can communicate with Paul directly (privately, off-list please) at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks best regards, Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Glenn Kellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 2:49 PM Subject: [FLEAA] Great time at BBB! Hi Folks, Just wanted to say what a great time I had at the BBB, Thanks to Shawn, his wife and everyone who made it possible and the great success it was! Thanks for the great
Re: [FLEAA] Great time at BBB!
Good points, Cliff! ... Bill? ... Charles - Original Message - From: Cliff Ruffner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jerry Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org; Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Great time at BBB! Greetings: I've always wondered why we don't have classes at our events. What about a class for lead acid at 20 miles, and a class for cars with extended range capabilities. Also, how come hybrids get to race with electric-only cars? It seems a little incongruous to see a hybrid honda screaming through a course using his gas engine only Just a thought. Cliff Ruffner - Original Message - From: Jerry Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Great time at BBB! Hi all, Don't make a decision on my input, but the 30 miles last year was the limit for my pick up. This year I plan on having a better car with Lithium batteries, so I think 35 and maybe even 47 would be doable. Jerry Wagner- -Original Message- From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Feb 7, 2008 12:49 PM To: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Cc: Bill Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Great time at BBB! Hi Bill and all, Cliff Rassweiler, Andrew Roddy, and myself all have over 100 mile range on our EVs, so no problem there for us on the range issue for the SunDay Challenge road rally. Could those of you with lead-acid conversions please answer Bill's question below about whether your cars can manage 35 miles? How about 47 miles? I guess to some extent it depends on the speed driven. ... Which is a question back to you, Bill: What roads and speeds are you anticipating for this year's SunDay Challenge road rally? If you're talking about 45 mph or less, I'd guess many could go 35 miles. At 35 mph or less, I'd think a fair number could go 47 miles. But if there are substantial portions of the course at 50 mph and above, that might be a problem for many of our lead-acid conversions to make those kind of range numbers. I don't know; you guys with lead-acid conversions who would like to participate in this event again this year please chime in on this. Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Bill Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Cc: EVs for Sale DL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Great time at BBB! HI I am glade the BBB went well, sorry, I was at another event that day. We are planning the next SunDay Challenge. Question Is 35 miles to far for your cars to drive.? What about 47 miles.? Bill == William Young Florida Solar Energy Center Senior Research Engineer University of Central Florida Clean Cities Coordinator Space Coast Clean Cities Coalition (321) 638 - 1443 1679 Clearlake Road (321) 638 - 1010 fax Cocoa, Florida 32922 www.fsec.ucf.edu (321) 638 - 1000 www.clean-cities.org www.energyfordisasters.org www.redrf.org == ** This email and any files transmitted with it are Intended Solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please delete the email and notify me or the system manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] If this email was sent to you by a mailing-list, and if you want to be removed from the list, notify William Young to remove you from the list. ** Charles Whalen wrote: Ditto and second that on what a great event it was and many thanks to Shawn, Matt, Lowell, Bob, their respective wives, and everyone who helped to make it such an excellent event! As long as we're on the subject of politics (from the previous post below), in addition to also seconding the point that I myself too had some good discussions about Ron Paul at the event, I would also like to mention that we had a Congressional candidate at the event, Paul Renneisen, who actually formally announced his candidacy and kicked off his campaign at the event. Paul is an American Airlines captain who lives in Ft. Lauderdale, flies out of Miami Airport, and drives a Toyota RAV4-EV as his primary transportation and daily commuter. Captain Renneisen has managed to get his RAV4-EV designated as the official electric car of Miami International Airport and is working on getting us a charging station there. He is running in the August 2008 Democratic primary race for Florida's 22nd Congressional
Re: [FLEAA] Great time at BBB!
Trust me on this -- UCF is going to be a big, BIG, HUGE, ENORMOUS problem on charging there!! You wouldn't believe what I went through to be able to charge there!!! There is only one friggin' accessible 240V outlet in the entire place ... that entire campus ... which is one of the biggest university campuses in the entire state!!! It took me weeks and weeks of emails to find it and get permission to use it. (By contrast, what a joy and pleasure it is to work with Prof. Frank Leslie at FIT!!! He da MN!!!) The only way you're going to be able to do the road rally either to or from UCF is to have a big 70kW generator there (like Shawn always arranges to have at BBB)! Don't know anything about the Orlando Science Center; never been there. Charles - Original Message - From: Bill Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org; Jerry Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cliff Ruffner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Great time at BBB! HI Here at the Florida Solar Energy Center and Space Coast Clean Cities Coalition we do. Last year at the SunDay Challenge we had a hybird-electric vehicle workshop all day on Monday. We plan to do the same this year. The Orlando Science Center in 47 miules and UCF is 35 miles from FSEC. We are trying to set the start and end locations for the event. Bill Young == William Young Florida Solar Energy Center Senior Research Engineer University of Central Florida Clean Cities Coordinator Space Coast Clean Cities Coalition (321) 638 - 1443 1679 Clearlake Road (321) 638 - 1010 fax Cocoa, Florida 32922 www.fsec.ucf.edu (321) 638 - 1000 www.clean-cities.org www.energyfordisasters.org www.redrf.org == ** This email and any files transmitted with it are Intended Solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please delete the email and notify me or the system manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] If this email was sent to you by a mailing-list, and if you want to be removed from the list, notify William Young to remove you from the list. ** Charles Whalen wrote: Good points, Cliff! ... Bill? ... Charles - Original Message - From: Cliff Ruffner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jerry Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org; Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Great time at BBB! Greetings: I've always wondered why we don't have classes at our events. What about a class for lead acid at 20 miles, and a class for cars with extended range capabilities. Also, how come hybrids get to race with electric-only cars? It seems a little incongruous to see a hybrid honda screaming through a course using his gas engine only Just a thought. Cliff Ruffner - Original Message - From: Jerry Wagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Great time at BBB! Hi all, Don't make a decision on my input, but the 30 miles last year was the limit for my pick up. This year I plan on having a better car with Lithium batteries, so I think 35 and maybe even 47 would be doable. Jerry Wagner- -Original Message- From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Feb 7, 2008 12:49 PM To: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Cc: Bill Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Great time at BBB! Hi Bill and all, Cliff Rassweiler, Andrew Roddy, and myself all have over 100 mile range on our EVs, so no problem there for us on the range issue for the SunDay Challenge road rally. Could those of you with lead-acid conversions please answer Bill's question below about whether your cars can manage 35 miles? How about 47 miles? I guess to some extent it depends on the speed driven. ... Which is a question back to you, Bill: What roads and speeds are you anticipating for this year's SunDay Challenge road rally? If you're talking about 45 mph or less, I'd guess many could go 35 miles. At 35 mph or less, I'd think a fair number could go 47 miles. But if there are substantial portions of the course at 50 mph and above, that might be a problem for many of our lead-acid conversions to make those kind of range numbers. I don't know; you guys with lead-acid conversions who would like to participate in this event again this year please chime in on this. Charles Whalen
Re: [FLEAA] SunDay Challenge Range
Al, This year's SunDay Challenge is tentatively scheduled for Fri-Sun October 3-5, 2008 at the Florida Solar Energy Center (FSEC) in Cocoa, which is on Florida's east coast due east of you. Thanks for advising on the range capability of your EV. This is very helpful and what we need everyone to do who wants to participate so that Bill Young can make some decisions on the road rally route. Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Al Lococo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:21 PM Subject: [FLEAA] SunDay Challenge Range My car has been driven 41 miles at at 40 to 45 mph without any extended stops. The ending voltage for this 144 volt pack was 145.7 indcating some remaining capacity. My goal is to never go below 144 volts. This car has a 4540 pound curb weight, 4770 GVWR and a 1440 pound AGM lead acid pack. I live in Winter Haven and have a towing system installed on the car, so I can tow it to an event. For me to participate, I need to know dates and location. It would be a big trip for me. Cheers, Al Lococo ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] Updated list of EVs expected at BBB
We've gotten a lot of confirmations in the last few days. The momentum is building for a great EVent! Here is the latest updated list. COMPETITORS - Here is the list of EVs that will be competing at Battery Beach Burnout (www.batterybeach.com) in Miami on Jan. 25-26: Electric Subaru Impreza, Cliff Rassweiler, ProEV Milwaukee Tool V28 Chevy from Monster Garage TV Show, Shawn Lawless AC Propulsion eBox, Andrew Roddy Florida Institute of Technology's Racing Electric Vehicle Electric Porsche 944, Miramar High School, Lowell Simmons students Electric Ford Probe, Miramar High School, Lowell Simmons students Electric Porsche 959, Paul Liddle, EVPorsche.com Patterson Cycles electric motorcycle, Jeff Patterson Vectrix electric motorcycle, Charles Whalen Toyota RAV4-EV, Charles Whalen Toyota RAV4-EV, Paul Renneisen Electric Datsun 240Z, Shenandoah Valley Governor's School, Byron Humphries Electric Porsche 911, Shenandoah Valley Governor's School, Byron Humphries Electric VW Jetta, Northampton East High School, Chad Lewis students Electric Toyota pickup truck, Bob Fuerstenau Electric Chevy S10 pickup truck, Jerry Wagner Electric Nissan Tsuru, Victor Juarez, Electro Autos Eficaces de Mexico Electric Porsche 912, Steve Clunn, Grassroots EV Electric VW Berian Buggy, Nick Antone, Grassroots EV Electric VW Cabriolet, Allan Miller Toyota MR2 plug-in series hybrid, Mark Haines Corbin Sparrow, Stephen Taylor Corbin Sparrow, Richard Evanston Commutacar Citicar, Cliff Ruffner Blue Rush electric pocket bike, James Loriol One e-bike and two electric scooters, Andy Reich, Falcon EV The following EVs are either tentative maybes at this point and hope to be there, or have not yet confirmed their participation: Joule Injected, electric Nissan 240SX, Matt Graham Patterson Cycles electric motorcycle, Shawn Waggoner Electric Mini Cooper, Bruce Chesson, NASA Kennedy Space Center Electric Chevy S10 pickup truck, Cornelius Cronin Electric VW Beetle, Inlet Grove Community High School, Anton Pastuszak South Plantation High School's electric car, Alan Phipps students Vero Beach High School's electric car, Sue Deblois students Ford Ranger EV, West Wilkes High School Electric VW Cabriolet, Mike Harvey, Harvey Coachworks EV ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Battery Beach Burnout
On Thursday, January 10, 2008 4:02 PM, Stephanie T Hopper wrote: I was at the FEAA Battery Beach website and see that the event is 1/25 1/26. Is there a place to register for events? We are planning to bring the completed REV car and the preliminary hybrid car. At your service, Stephanie T. Hopper Director of Laboratories - College of Engineering University Laser Safety Officer Florida Institute of Technology Office - (321) 674-7349 Cell - (321) 795-9440 Stefanie, Hey, great news! Thanks so much for making the effort to bring Florida Tech's REV down to Battery Beach Burnout in Miami, which will be a terrific addition to the field of EVs at the event! You can consider yourself as good as registered for the event with this email that you have just sent. I have been keeping a list of EVs that will be attending, and I have just added you to that list, which you can find here below in our press release on the event. We're going to be having a new press release coming out in the next few days that our Florida EAA president, Shawn Waggoner, is in the process of drafting right now, which will supersede the older press release I wrote below. But until then, you can find hotel information in the existing press release below. Shawn's PR coming out in the next few days will have a narrowed-down list of a few recommended hotels, which Shawn Waggoner and Lowell Simmons are in the process of canvassing and doing on-site reviews right now. One of their criteria will be to select clean, suitable hotels that are in fairly close proximity to where we will be having the awards dinner banquet on Saturday evening, Jan. 26. In the meantime, as I said, here is what we've got below. Thanks again so much for your interest in coming to BBB! We look forward to seeing you, the Florida Tech team, and your Racing Electric Vehicle at the event! Best regards, Charles Whalen Florida EAA Delray Beach, FL [EMAIL PROTECTED] BATTERY BEACH BURNOUT, January 25-26 in Miami The Florida Electric Auto Association (www.floridaeaa.org) is pleased to announce the 3rd Annual Battery Beach Burnout electric vehicle drag racing and autocross competition will be held on January 25-26 at Countyline Dragway (www.countylinedragwayinc.com) in Miami. The EV drag race will be Friday evening from 6pm to midnight, and the EV autocross and Show 'n Shine will be Saturday from 9am to 4pm at the same location. The event will wrap up Saturday evening. Countyline Dragway, the former Opa Locka West airstrip, is located at the intersection of W. Okeechobee Rd. (Route 27) and N. Krome Ave. (Route 997) in the far northwest corner of Miami-Dade County, a quarter mile south of the Miami-Dade/Broward County line. Countyline is a 1/8-mile drag strip. Note that 1/8 mile records are now available for all voltage classes with the recent approval by NEDRA, the National Electric Drag Racing Association (www.nedra.com), of recording 1/8 mile records for all NEDRA classes. The Florida EAA is staging Battery Beach Burnout (BBB) in conjunction and collaboration with the Electric Vehicle Association of San Diego (www.evaosd.com) and its own EV drag racing autocross competition, Electric Dragin' (www.electricdragin.com), at Barona Dragstrip (www.baronadrags.com, also a 1/8 mile dragstrip) in San Diego on the same weekend. There is a possibility of a joint east-coast/west-coast media link-up and simulcast for parts of the dual events, with some interesting dueling match-ups as well: AC Propulsion will be bringing one of their eBoxes (www.acpropulsion.com/ebox/) to Electric Dragin' in San Diego, going head-to-head against Andrew Roddy with his eBox at BBB in Miami. Dan Wolfson in San Diego will face off on his Vectrix electric motorcycle (www.vectrix.com) against Charles Whalen on his Vectrix bike in Miami. Dan and Charles will also each be competing against Jeff Patterson and Shawn Waggoner on their respective Patterson Cycles electric motorcycles (www.pattersoncycles.com), the latter two both in Miami. If Matt Graham and Shawn Waggoner can complete repairs and upgrades to Matt's Joule Injected electric Nissan 240SX (www.jouleinjected.com) in time for BBB, Matt will be looking to fend off an aggressive challenge from Michael Kadie in San Diego with his electric Cobra (http://ssi-racing.com), which is hot on the heels of Joule Injected's current position as the second fastest street-legal electric car in the world. No shrinking violet and certainly not lacking in ambition, Michael has said that he won't even have time to blink as he blows right past Joule Injected's Number 2 position on his way to knocking off and unseating the current world champion, John Plasma Boy Wayland's White Zombie (www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php), of Portland, Oregon. Miami's own Cliff Rassweiler of ProEV (www.proev.com) will be taking on all-comers on both coasts in defense of his dominant reign as the longtime
[FLEAA] Battery Beach Burnout, Jan. 25-26 in Miami
Hi folks, My apologies for making this very long announcement below via list post on the various EV lists. This would be much better and more efficiently disseminated via our Florida EAA website ... and eventually *will* be on our website, but we're running very late in getting it up on the website this year. So in the interim, prior to getting this info up on our website, in the interests of not delaying any further, I wanted to at least get this information out on the various lists for all of those many people around Florida and the eastern US, as well as out in Southern California, who have been writing emails asking about BBB and whether it is going to be held next month, and especially enquiring about travel and hotel accommodations in Miami. I'll also be sending this out as a PR to local South Florida media (which explains why it seems to be written for newbies and non-EVers). (Heck, I was a newbie myself just a few years ago, and still am in many respects, ... so it comes natural for me to write like one.) Thanks for your patience and understanding on all counts. If you're not interested in this event or EV drag racing and autocross, please just delete this (long) message. Thanks, Charles Whalen Florida EAA BATTERY BEACH BURNOUT, January 25-26 in Miami The Florida Electric Auto Association (www.floridaeaa.org) is pleased to announce the 3rd Annual Battery Beach Burnout electric vehicle drag racing and autocross competition will be held on January 25-26 at Countyline Dragway (www.countylinedragwayinc.com) in Miami. The EV drag race will be Friday evening from 6pm to midnight, and the EV autocross and Show 'n Shine will be Saturday from 10am to 4pm at the same location. The event will wrap up Saturday evening, with no activities presently scheduled for Sunday, January 27. Countyline Dragway, the former Opa Locka West airstrip, is located at the intersection of W. Okeechobee Rd. (Route 27) and N. Krome Ave. (Route 997) in the far northwest corner of Miami-Dade County, a quarter mile south of the Miami-Dade/Broward County line. Countyline is a 1/8-mile drag strip. Note that 1/8 mile records are now available for all voltage classes with the recent approval by NEDRA, the National Electric Drag Racing Association (www.nedra.com), of recording 1/8 mile records for all NEDRA classes. The Florida EAA is staging Battery Beach Burnout (BBB) in conjunction and collaboration with the Electric Vehicle Association of San Diego (www.evaosd.com) and its own EV drag racing autocross competition, Electric Dragin' (www.electricdragin.com), at Barona Dragstrip (www.baronadrags.com, also a 1/8 mile dragstrip) in San Diego on the same weekend. There is a possibility of a joint east-coast/west-coast media link-up and simulcast for parts of the dual events, with some interesting dueling match-ups as well: AC Propulsion will be bringing one of their eBoxes (www.acpropulsion.com/ebox/) to Electric Dragin' in San Diego, going head-to-head against Andrew Roddy with his eBox at BBB in Miami. Dan Wolfson in San Diego will face off on his Vectrix electric motorcycle (www.vectrix.com) against Charles Whalen on his Vectrix bike in Miami. Dan and Charles will also each be competing against Jeff Patterson and Shawn Waggoner on their respective Patterson Cycles electric motorcycles (www.pattersoncycles.com), the latter two both in Miami. If Matt Graham and Shawn Waggoner can complete repairs and upgrades to Matt's Joule Injected electric Nissan 240SX (www.jouleinjected.com) in time for BBB, Matt will be looking to fend off an aggressive challenge from Michael Kadie in San Diego with his electric Cobra (http://ssi-racing.com), which is hot on the heels of Joule Injected's current position as the second fastest street-legal electric car in the world. No shrinking violet and certainly not lacking in ambition, Michael has said that he won't even have time to blink as he blows right past Joule Injected's Number 2 position on his way to knocking off and unseating the current world champion, John Plasma Boy Wayland's White Zombie (www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php), of Portland, Oregon. Miami's own Cliff Rassweiler of ProEV (www.proev.com) will be taking on all-comers on both coasts in defense of his dominant reign as the longtime world champion EV autocross racer. Another longtime, dominant world champion, Lowell Simmons of Broward County's Miramar High School (www.miramarev.com), will be defending his drag racing and autocross titles against other high schools in Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, and Southern California. The Electric Vehicle Association of San Diego is also expecting an AC Propulsion tzero (www.acpropulsion.com/tzero/) and a Tesla Roadster (www.teslamotors.com) to compete at Electric Dragin' in San Diego, while the Florida EAA's Battery Beach Burnout will again be an international event, this year with Electro Autos Eficaces de Mexico bringing
[FLEAA] hotels near Countyline Dragstrip for BBB?
Hi All, I just got an email asking if there are any hotels/motels within walking distance of Countyline Dragstrip in northwest Miami-Dade County where BBB is going to be held. Countyline is off of W. Okeechobee Rd (Route 27) just south of N. Krome Ave. (Route 997). I have never been down there myself. I guess I could try to do an Internet search for hotels in that area. For those of you who have been there and visited the track -- and I guess that would be just Lowell and Shawn -- do you know if there are any hotels/motels around there within close proximity to Countyline? Or alternatively, do you have the contact info for any of the track officials there (email, phone, website)? I've never been able to find a website for Countyline Dragstrip. Thanks and Happy Holidays! Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] hotels near Countyline Dragstrip for BBB?
Well, I must be Internet challenged. I ran an Internet search several weeks ago to try to find a website for Countyline dragstrip and couldn't find a website for the track itself but rather just a few discussion group references to it. I just ran another search now and came up with the website for Countyline Dragway in Miami: http://www.countylinedragwayinc.com/ I just perused the website and didn't find any information on nearby hotels, but I'll contact track management to ask about it. Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Florida EAA ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Cc: Lowell Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Shawn M. Waggoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 12:47 PM Subject: hotels near Countyline Dragstrip for BBB? Hi All, I just got an email asking if there are any hotels/motels within walking distance of Countyline Dragstrip in northwest Miami-Dade County where BBB is going to be held. Countyline is off of W. Okeechobee Rd (Route 27) just south of N. Krome Ave. (Route 997). I have never been down there myself. I guess I could try to do an Internet search for hotels in that area. For those of you who have been there and visited the track -- and I guess that would be just Lowell and Shawn -- do you know if there are any hotels/motels around there within close proximity to Countyline? Or alternatively, do you have the contact info for any of the track officials there (email, phone, website)? I've never been able to find a website for Countyline Dragstrip. Thanks and Happy Holidays! Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] hotels near Countyline Dragstrip for BBB?
The EV drag race will be Friday evening from 6pm to midnight, and the EV autocross and Show 'n Shine will be Saturday from 10am to 4pm at the same location, Countyline Dragway. I don't believe there are any activities or events scheduled for Sunday, to my knowledge. I don't know how many EVs will be at the drag race Friday evening nor how many will be at the autocross on Saturday, but Shawn and/or Matt may know. To speculate a guess at it, these are the EVs that I am pretty sure will likely be there both Friday evening and Saturday: ProEV's electric Imp, Cliff Rassweiler Miramar High School's electric Porsche 944, Lowell Simmons and his students AC Propulsion eBox, Andrew Roddy Patterson Cycles electric motorcycle, Jeff Patterson Vectrix electric motorcycle, Charles Whalen Toyota RAV4-EV, Charles Whalen Here are a number of other EVs which might also be there: Possibly a second EV from Miramar High School (a Probe?, I think) Electric Toyota pickup truck, Bob Fuerstenau Some type of electric Porsche 911, possibly rebodied with an exotic body kit, possibly lithium-powered, Paul Liddle, EV Porsche Joule Injected, electric Nissan 240SX, Matt Graham A second Patterson Cycles electric motorcycle, Shawn Waggoner Electric Porsche 912, Steve Clunn, Grassroots EV Electric Chevy S10 pickup truck, Jerry Wagner EVs from a few high schools in North Carolina and Virginia (Lowell Simmons might know whether they are coming again this year) I have written track management an email and asked them for info on any nearby hotels. Given the holidays, I expect it might be several days before I get any response from them. Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Joseph T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] hotels near Countyline Dragstrip for BBB? I also tried to find the website for the track a few weeks ago and all I could find were forums talking about it. I guess the website must be new I went to BBB last year on Friday, and there were only three or four EVs there. I could not go on Saturday, the day when all the EVs really came. So for this year, which day will have the most activity? BBB is the entire weekend of January 26, 27, and 28, correct? On 12/25/07, Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I must be Internet challenged. I ran an Internet search several weeks ago to try to find a website for Countyline dragstrip and couldn't find a website for the track itself but rather just a few discussion group references to it. I just ran another search now and came up with the website for Countyline Dragway in Miami: http://www.countylinedragwayinc.com/ I just perused the website and didn't find any information on nearby hotels, but I'll contact track management to ask about it. Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Florida EAA ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Cc: Lowell Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Shawn M. Waggoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 12:47 PM Subject: hotels near Countyline Dragstrip for BBB? Hi All, I just got an email asking if there are any hotels/motels within walking distance of Countyline Dragstrip in northwest Miami-Dade County where BBB is going to be held. Countyline is off of W. Okeechobee Rd (Route 27) just south of N. Krome Ave. (Route 997). I have never been down there myself. I guess I could try to do an Internet search for hotels in that area. For those of you who have been there and visited the track -- and I guess that would be just Lowell and Shawn -- do you know if there are any hotels/motels around there within close proximity to Countyline? Or alternatively, do you have the contact info for any of the track officials there (email, phone, website)? I've never been able to find a website for Countyline Dragstrip. Thanks and Happy Holidays! Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] EVs and the eBox in the Scion Newsletter
Andrew, Great article! Congratulations on all the great exposure and publicity that you have been gaining for AC Propulsion, EVs in general, and the Florida EAA! Charles - Original Message - From: Andrew To: 'FLEAA Mailing List' Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:03 PM Subject: [FLEAA] EVs and the eBox in the Scion Newsletter Holiday Greetings Everyone, Michael Kennedy writes the Scion Scene newsletter. Attached is the December edition with an article about me and my eBox. The picture of me and my eBox is OK, but I think I don't look very good, probably because of the software used to reduce the size of the picture. I tried to be as accurate as possible; let me know if there are any errors. Also, check out the picture of Alexandra Paul at the end of the newsletter. Enjoy the holiday season. Andrew ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
Re: [FLEAA] Fw: Fw: Radio Show opening EVS23 live on-the-airinternet
Been out all day and just got back. I'd be interested to know who from Florida called in and managed to get through and talk on the show. Anyone on the list? Maybe I'll ask Keith. Otherwise, I guess I'll just wait until the show is archived, which should be up by Tuesday. From your other post, sounds like it's getting close to time for a new pack for JI. JI is our star attraction, so obviously all of us would love to see you run it at the upcoming BBB, but it sounds like this may be a transition time to possibly new and even better things for JI? ... Such as maybe a Li pack like Wayland is doing in WZ? BTW, speaking of that, I gather that the A123 pack that WZ ran at last summer's Portland drags was just a loaner pack from Bill Dube's KillaCycle, similar to what Bill did for Shawn Lawless here in Florida at last year's BBB by bringing a loaner pack here for OJ, but does anyone know if Wayland is planning to swap out WZ's current Enersys pack for a new, custom-assembled pack of thousands of A123 cells? Any Li plans in JI's future? Inquiring minds just have to ask ... Charles - Original Message - From: Matt Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Fw: Fw: Radio Show opening EVS23 live on-the-airinternet Oh, I just was told there's already someone talking about the event on the show. Can't listen to it on the road so I don't know who it is. Matt -Original Message- From: Matt Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:49:40 To:Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED],FLEAA Mailing List listserv@floridaeaa.org Subject: Re: [FLEAA] Fw: Fw: Radio Show opening EVS23 live on-the-air internet I just called but was told there was some issue and I should call back. They can only take one caller at a time. Same thing the second time I called. I'll keep trying. . . Matt -Original Message- From: Charles Whalen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 22:35:12 To:Florida EAA ListServ@Floridaeaa.org Subject: [FLEAA] Fw: Fw: Radio Show opening EVS23 live on-the-air internet Just passing along this message from Keith Vansickle for anyone who plans to call in to the radio show tomorrow. I wish I could do so, but I've got to shuttle several Vectrix bikes between dealers tomorrow with only a single motorcycle trailer, so I've got to make a number of trips. I'll catch the show later in the week after it's been archived. I'm hoping someone from the FLEAA will call in. I tried to stoke the competitive juices a bit between Michael Kadie's 2SSIC and Matt Graham's Joule Injected when I called in to last weekend's show, which you can listen to at the online archive link I posted earlier this evening. It would be cool to play up that budding rivalry to get the media's interest (TV, radio, or both) in simultaneously covering both events. Charles Whalen Florida EAA From: keith vansickle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 10:15 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [FLEAA] Radio Show opening EVS23 live on-the-air internet hey guys please have your questions and coments for the show so we can have an interesting dialogue. I know it may seem you are preaching to the choir but there will be people listening who have interest but don't know enough to ask questions. see you on the show kEVs ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
[FLEAA] San Diego's Electric Dragin' our BBB
Hi Everyone, Just a clarification and update from my previous post yesterday. I had a good exchange last night with EVA of San Diego President Bill Hammons, whom I had not previously had the pleasure of corresponding with and who I learned is a big fan of the Florida EAA, has hosted folks from Florida at some of their EVents in San Diego and personally hooked them up with the Florida EAA, sending us new members. I assured Bill that the good feelings and admiration are mutual, going back the other way as well. Regarding our two upcoming EVents on the same weekend of January 25-27 -- EV Dragin' in San Diego and BBB in Miami -- with many of us off in our own respective corners, each concentrating on his own local scene (3,000 miles apart), it was really just a matter of completing the circle of excellent communications and collaboration that has already been going on for months between Shawn Waggoner here in Florida and Keith Vansickle in San Diego and bringing others of us up to speed on each other's chapter's latest developments with respect to the two EVents. Bill is very excited about our two respective EVents happening simultaneously, appreciates all the great coordination between Shawn Waggoner and Keith Vansickle, looks forward to a possible link-up during the two events, and believes that we should further disseminate this and get the word out to all our respective chapter members so that we can join forces and maximize our efforts, as Bill put it. We agreed on the mutual benefits of cross-promoting each other's EVents and specifically these two joint EVents together. One good opportunity to do this is on a San Diego live call in radio show that is coming up this Saturday, November 24 from 4pm to 6pm our time (1pm to 3pm Pacific time) on the topic of EVs and sustainable transportation, during which EV Dragin' will be heavily promoted. Bill said he would also like to see our BBB promoted on the radio show and would appreciate a call-in from Florida announcing that you are doing the same thing, supporting that we are really not so crazy. So I'm wondering if any of you guys who are primarily involved in organizing BBB -- Shawn, Matt, Lowell, Cliff -- would be able to do this, to call in to the San Diego radio show this Saturday from 4pm to 6pm Eastern Time, and make a plug for BBB and the coordination with the simultaneous EV Dragin' event there in San Diego? (Maybe Shawn already knows about this from Keith and is already planning to call in; not sure.) The call-in telephone number is: 760-845-8580, and the website from which the radio show will be streamed live is: www.you-auto-know.com. More specific information about the San Diego radio show on EVs this coming Saturday is contained below. Well, my wife just came home from work; yes, she had to work today on Thanksgiving. So I had some downtime while waiting for her and wanted to get this post out as an important amendment and clarification to my somewhat dramatic and hasty overreaction last night to what was really just some misunderstood second-hand communications. Happy Thanksgiving to all! Charles Whalen Florida EAA Delray Beach, FL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electric Vehicle Association of San Diego Presents What: Electric-drive Car Show 2 hour Radio Show When: Saturday, November 24, 2007 from Noon till 3:00 p.m. Where:San Diego High School Educational Complex in the Auto Shop Area 1405 Park Blvd. http://www.sandi.net/hsrenewal/sm_schools_sd.html San Diego, CA 92102 Auto Shop is off of Russ Blvd. Who: All electric-drive vehicles: EV; NEV; PHEV and hybrids Why: Public awareness that electric-drive options are available today. How: Bring you car to show and speak to Dave Stall and Jon Wagner on KCEO 1000 AM with You-Auto-Know live radio show from 1:00 p.m. till 3:00 p.m. Talk about your car and what you are doing for sustainable transportation. Alternative:Listen to the live radio internet broadcast and call in to speak on the radio or listen to the tape feed of the previous show afterwards about electric-drive from the internet. Bring your car to the Electric-drive car show and tell your EV story as each car will be announced live on the radio. Tell what you have been able to accomplish and what innovation that you have implemented with electric-drive. Remember to Keep The Rubber Side Electric Vehicle Association of San Diego Down And The Shiny Side Up www.EVAOSD.com Listen Every Saturday from 1-3 pm PT orBring your electric-drive vehicle and demonstrate Calling within California 1-800-292-5236that the public does have choices today
[FLEAA] San Diego's Electric Dragin' vs. our BBB
I was just checking out the website of the San Diego EAA chapter's Electric Dragin' event, which will be the same weekend as our BBB, January 25-27, 2008. They've already got 31 EVs registered to compete in the event in San Diego, which is mighty impressive: http://members.cox.net/electric_dragin/img3.html EVAoSD President Bill Hammons has apparently been telling people that BBB has been cancelled and won't be held this coming January. We need to counter that and get out the word that BBB is still on. I am doing my best to correct the misinformation out there and let everyone know that BBB is on for the weekend of January 25-27, 2008 and that there is a change of venue with the event being moved from Moroso Racetrack in West Palm Beach (where it has been held the last two years) to Countyline Racetrack in Miami (this coming year). Happy Thanksgiving! Charles Whalen Florida EAA ___ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
