[LUTE] Galilei Contrapunto Secondo BM score

[Tristan von Neumann]

Dear collective,


does anyone have a pdf score (not tabs) of Vincenzo Galilei's
Contrapunto Secondo "B.M."?

I am playing with someone who can't use tabs.

I'd make my own score, but I thought I'll ask first.


Thanks!




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[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars

[Jean-Marie Poirier]

My attitude is to decide what makes most sense, musically and rhythmically 
speaking... They did not use, as we do now, first and second repeats. But an 
upbeat is always an upbeat and must be played accordingly with sometimes a good 
dose of diplomatic editing to make things fit properly ;-)!
Best wishes to all!
Jean-Marie 

> Le 6 janv. 2019 à 11:23, Joachim Lüdtke  a écrit :
> 
> Dear Ed
> 
> the Minkoff facsimile comes with an introduction (in English as well as in 
> French) by Claude Chauvel. He cites and translates Galilei's adress to the 
> readers. No help with your question, though ...
> 
> Uwe Wolf has written in his PhD thesis (published 1992) something to the 
> effect that the repeat sign would mean to leave out in the repeat what makes 
> the first measure of the first part complete, but then his example is music 
> where this first measure begins with pauses, not with notes as in the piece 
> in question here. Personally, I do more or less so: play the half note as a 
> quarter note, insert a 'breath' and go on with notes two and three of the 
> first measure. I am not aware of any contemporary instructions or 
> explanations which would be of help here, but that does not mean that there 
> aren't any ...
> 
> Best
> 
> Joachim
> 
> -Original-Nachricht-
> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars
> Datum: 2019-01-05T12:28:00+0100
> Von: "Ed Durbrow" 
> An: "Matthew Daillie" , "lute list" 
> 
> 
> What you type more or less aligns with the way I interpret it, if I 
> understand you correctly. However, some well known players do not interpret 
> it so. For example, in the first C maj volt, they hold the half note at the 
> repeat mark bar for three beats and then start over. I and you, I think, 
> would hold it for two beats and insert the last beat of measure one on the 
> repeat. I was wondering if they know something we don’t, if Galilei mentions 
> anything (my original question), if (there must be) other examples of similar 
> structures and if any contemporary explains what to do.
> 
> Again if anybody can point me to an English translation, it would be fun to 
> read even though there may not be any information on repeats.
> 
>> On Dec 25, 2018, at 11:15 PM, Matthew Daillie  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> From what I've seen it's pretty straightforward, you just need to replace 
>> the upbeat at the end of the bar with the repeat sign with the anacrusis of 
>> the first bar. Sometimes the note values of the anacrusis are not the same 
>> but this doesn't really matter as one is making a pause before starting the 
>> piece again from the beginning. The values of the last beat of the repeat 
>> bars work fine when playing straight through the second time round.
>> Despite Galilei's claims to the contrary, there are a few printers mistakes 
>> too and there is doubtlessly an element of improvisation in the way the 
>> introductory anacruses should be played anyway (as perhaps indicated, for 
>> example, by the occasional long note values).
>> Best,
>> Matthew 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 25, 2018, at 12:51, Joachim Lüdtke  wrote:
>>> 
>>> that is what I found in the introduction too, and still you have to cope 
>>> with the Situation Ed describes. I tend to your No 2, Ed!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars

[Joachim Lüdtke]

Dear Ed

the Minkoff facsimile comes with an introduction (in English as well as in 
French) by Claude Chauvel. He cites and translates Galilei's adress to the 
readers. No help with your question, though ...

Uwe Wolf has written in his PhD thesis (published 1992) something to the effect 
that the repeat sign would mean to leave out in the repeat what makes the first 
measure of the first part complete, but then his example is music where this 
first measure begins with pauses, not with notes as in the piece in question 
here. Personally, I do more or less so: play the half note as a quarter note, 
insert a 'breath' and go on with notes two and three of the first measure. I am 
not aware of any contemporary instructions or explanations which would be of 
help here, but that does not mean that there aren't any ...

Best

Joachim

-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars
Datum: 2019-01-05T12:28:00+0100
Von: "Ed Durbrow" 
An: "Matthew Daillie" , "lute list" 


What you type more or less aligns with the way I interpret it, if I understand 
you correctly. However, some well known players do not interpret it so. For 
example, in the first C maj volt, they hold the half note at the repeat mark 
bar for three beats and then start over. I and you, I think, would hold it for 
two beats and insert the last beat of measure one on the repeat. I was 
wondering if they know something we don’t, if Galilei mentions anything (my 
original question), if (there must be) other examples of similar structures and 
if any contemporary explains what to do.

Again if anybody can point me to an English translation, it would be fun to 
read even though there may not be any information on repeats.

> On Dec 25, 2018, at 11:15 PM, Matthew Daillie  
> wrote:
> 
> From what I've seen it's pretty straightforward, you just need to replace the 
> upbeat at the end of the bar with the repeat sign with the anacrusis of the 
> first bar. Sometimes the note values of the anacrusis are not the same but 
> this doesn't really matter as one is making a pause before starting the piece 
> again from the beginning. The values of the last beat of the repeat bars work 
> fine when playing straight through the second time round.
> Despite Galilei's claims to the contrary, there are a few printers mistakes 
> too and there is doubtlessly an element of improvisation in the way the 
> introductory anacruses should be played anyway (as perhaps indicated, for 
> example, by the occasional long note values).
> Best,
> Matthew 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 25, 2018, at 12:51, Joachim Lüdtke  wrote:
>> 
>> that is what I found in the introduction too, and still you have to cope 
>> with the Situation Ed describes. I tend to your No 2, Ed!
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html





[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars

[Ed Durbrow]

What you type more or less aligns with the way I interpret it, if I understand 
you correctly. However, some well known players do not interpret it so. For 
example, in the first C maj volt, they hold the half note at the repeat mark 
bar for three beats and then start over. I and you, I think, would hold it for 
two beats and insert the last beat of measure one on the repeat. I was 
wondering if they know something we don’t, if Galilei mentions anything (my 
original question), if (there must be) other examples of similar structures and 
if any contemporary explains what to do.

Again if anybody can point me to an English translation, it would be fun to 
read even though there may not be any information on repeats.

> On Dec 25, 2018, at 11:15 PM, Matthew Daillie  
> wrote:
> 
> From what I've seen it's pretty straightforward, you just need to replace the 
> upbeat at the end of the bar with the repeat sign with the anacrusis of the 
> first bar. Sometimes the note values of the anacrusis are not the same but 
> this doesn't really matter as one is making a pause before starting the piece 
> again from the beginning. The values of the last beat of the repeat bars work 
> fine when playing straight through the second time round.
> Despite Galilei's claims to the contrary, there are a few printers mistakes 
> too and there is doubtlessly an element of improvisation in the way the 
> introductory anacruses should be played anyway (as perhaps indicated, for 
> example, by the occasional long note values).
> Best,
> Matthew 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 25, 2018, at 12:51, Joachim Lüdtke  wrote:
>> 
>> that is what I found in the introduction too, and still you have to cope 
>> with the Situation Ed describes. I tend to your No 2, Ed!
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars

[Matthew Daillie]

>From what I've seen it's pretty straightforward, you just need to replace the 
>upbeat at the end of the bar with the repeat sign with the anacrusis of the 
>first bar. Sometimes the note values of the anacrusis are not the same but 
>this doesn't really matter as one is making a pause before starting the piece 
>again from the beginning. The values of the last beat of the repeat bars work 
>fine when playing straight through the second time round.
Despite Galilei's claims to the contrary, there are a few printers mistakes too 
and there is doubtlessly an element of improvisation in the way the 
introductory anacruses should be played anyway (as perhaps indicated, for 
example, by the occasional long note values).
Best,
Matthew 



> On Dec 25, 2018, at 12:51, Joachim Lüdtke  wrote:
> 
> that is what I found in the introduction too, and still you have to cope with 
> the Situation Ed describes. I tend to your No 2, Ed!



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[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars

[Ed Durbrow]

On Dec 25, 2018, at 8:41 PM, Matthew Daillie  wrote:

> The Minkoff facsimile provides an English translation. Here is an extract:
> '... since my sonatas might offer some difficulty to... players not yet very 
> experienced in this art... these people must be satisfied with playing simply 
> the first and second part of the Correnti and Volte, which they may repeat 
> without the diminutions and this will not make the the sonata imperfect.'


That is interesting.

Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/








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[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars

[adS]

On 25.12.2018 12:51, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:

Dear Ed, dear Matthew,

that is what I found in the introduction too, and still you have to cope with 
the Situation Ed describes. I tend to your No 2, Ed!


Cheers, Joachim


P.S.: I still have a number of copies of the Minkoff facsimile I anyone is 
interested


This is an excellent edition.

The music is really good - not exactly easy, though :)

The preface - yes a preface in a Minkoff edition - is fabulous. There are even 
corrections to the music.

The tablature is crystal clear.

Possibly the best Minkoff facsimile of lute music.

Rainer

PS
You definitely need an 10c instrument for Galilei's music.



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[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars

[Joachim Lüdtke]

Dear Ed, dear Matthew,

that is what I found in the introduction too, and still you have to cope with 
the Situation Ed describes. I tend to your No 2, Ed!


Cheers, Joachim


P.S.: I still have a number of copies of the Minkoff facsimile I anyone is 
interested




Lektorat & Korrektorat
Dr. Joachim Lüdtke
Blumenstraße 20
D-90762 Fürth
Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20
Mail: jo.lued...@t-online.de
www.lektorat-luedtke.de
 
Mitglied im Verband der freien Lektorinnen und Lektoren
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www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke
 


-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars
Datum: 2018-12-25T12:42:07+0100
Von: "Matthew Daillie" 
An: "Ed Durbrow" 

The Minkoff facsimile provides an English translation. Here is an extract:
'... since my sonatas might offer some difficulty to... players not yet very 
experienced in this art... these people must be satisfied with playing simply 
the first and second part of the Correnti and Volte, which they may repeat 
without the diminutions and this will not make the the sonata imperfect.'

Best,
Matthew


> On Dec 25, 2018, at 2:41, Ed Durbrow  wrote:
> 
> It looks like Michelagnolo Galilei doesn’t give any instructions in his book, 
> but could an Italian speaker confirm that? Is there an English translation of 
> his dedication and author page anywhere?
> What I’m interested in at the moment is whether he gives any guidance on how 
> to perform repeats. He has two kinds of repeat signs: the normal one that is 
> at the end of a full bar and one that is in the middle of a bar. Repeats 
> mostly occurs in voltas because most other pieces have written out style 
> brisé passages. 
> 
> Of the second kind, typically, the first section ends on a half note or 
> quarter note with a repeat sign under the remaining notes. There are two 
> possible interpretations. 
> 1. Hold the first beat of the last measure for three full beats then repeat 
> from the very beginning.
> 2. Combine the last measure and the first making just one measure.
> In the second interpretation, one assumes that on the repeat playing one 
> would start with the last quarter of the first measure after a half note in 
> the last measure. He is not always so straightforward though. For example 
> there might be a dotted quarter at the end of a section but three quarter 
> notes at the start. I wonder if he mentions anything in the Italian text.
> 
> Ed Durbrow
> Saitama, Japan
> See my latest video at:
> http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
> https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
> http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ed Durbrow
> Saitama, Japan
> http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
> https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
> http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html




[LUTE] Re: Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars

[Matthew Daillie]

The Minkoff facsimile provides an English translation. Here is an extract:
'... since my sonatas might offer some difficulty to... players not yet very 
experienced in this art... these people must be satisfied with playing simply 
the first and second part of the Correnti and Volte, which they may repeat 
without the diminutions and this will not make the the sonata imperfect.'

Best,
Matthew


> On Dec 25, 2018, at 2:41, Ed Durbrow  wrote:
> 
> It looks like Michelagnolo Galilei doesn’t give any instructions in his book, 
> but could an Italian speaker confirm that? Is there an English translation of 
> his dedication and author page anywhere?
> What I’m interested in at the moment is whether he gives any guidance on how 
> to perform repeats. He has two kinds of repeat signs: the normal one that is 
> at the end of a full bar and one that is in the middle of a bar. Repeats 
> mostly occurs in voltas because most other pieces have written out style 
> brisé passages. 
> 
> Of the second kind, typically, the first section ends on a half note or 
> quarter note with a repeat sign under the remaining notes. There are two 
> possible interpretations. 
> 1. Hold the first beat of the last measure for three full beats then repeat 
> from the very beginning.
> 2. Combine the last measure and the first making just one measure.
> In the second interpretation, one assumes that on the repeat playing one 
> would start with the last quarter of the first measure after a half note in 
> the last measure. He is not always so straightforward though. For example 
> there might be a dotted quarter at the end of a section but three quarter 
> notes at the start. I wonder if he mentions anything in the Italian text.
> 
> Ed Durbrow
> Saitama, Japan
> See my latest video at:
> http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
> https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
> http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ed Durbrow
> Saitama, Japan
> http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
> https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
> http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Il primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto Galilei repeat bars

[Ed Durbrow]

It looks like Michelagnolo Galilei doesn’t give any instructions in his book, 
but could an Italian speaker confirm that? Is there an English translation of 
his dedication and author page anywhere?
What I’m interested in at the moment is whether he gives any guidance on how to 
perform repeats. He has two kinds of repeat signs: the normal one that is at 
the end of a full bar and one that is in the middle of a bar. Repeats mostly 
occurs in voltas because most other pieces have written out style brisé 
passages. 

Of the second kind, typically, the first section ends on a half note or quarter 
note with a repeat sign under the remaining notes. There are two possible 
interpretations. 
1. Hold the first beat of the last measure for three full beats then repeat 
from the very beginning.
2. Combine the last measure and the first making just one measure.
In the second interpretation, one assumes that on the repeat playing one would 
start with the last quarter of the first measure after a half note in the last 
measure. He is not always so straightforward though. For example there might be 
a dotted quarter at the end of a section but three quarter notes at the start. 
I wonder if he mentions anything in the Italian text.

Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
See my latest video at:
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/









Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/








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[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei // Contrapunto Secondo BM - Eri Jaane Na Doongi

[Tristan von Neumann]

And again, it can get even better.
Improved alignment - these rhythms are complex...
.and it's a long version!

Fun Fact: This is a film song from the 1964 movie "Chitralekha", based 
on Raga Kamod.
This would be like a newly composed ciacona with modern English lyrics 
for a movie (I think this has happened even).


Nevertheless, the clear structure made it suitable for this mix.

https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/vincenzo-galilei-contrapunto-secondo-bm-eri-jaane-na-doongi-nirali-kartik-long


Am 08.08.2018 um 22:53 schrieb Tristan von Neumann:

Again, when you think it can't get any better...

This Raga performance is so close to the infamous BM Counterpoint - note 
the percussion.


https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/vincenzo-galilei-contrapunto-secondo-bm-raga-kamod-nirali-kirtak 





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[LUTE] Vincenzo Galilei // Contrapunto Secondo BM - Eri Jaane Na Doongi

[Tristan von Neumann]

Again, when you think it can't get any better...

This Raga performance is so close to the infamous BM Counterpoint - note 
the percussion.


https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/vincenzo-galilei-contrapunto-secondo-bm-raga-kamod-nirali-kirtak



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[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and the elusive "BM"

[howard posner]

> On Jun 9, 2018, at 5:17 PM, Tristan von Neumann  
> wrote:
> 
> Lutists, please don't kill me

Not even a little?



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[LUTE] Vincenzo Galilei and the elusive "BM"

[Tristan von Neumann]

May I ask into the forum what current theories about "B.M." are?
Is it even a person?

Why I ask:
Anyway, the 2nd counterpoint does not only follow Raga Kamod, but you 
can actually (in three rounds) hear many of Galilei's motifs, sometimes 
in other places or in dialogue.
There's always many possibilities to align the pieces, as Ragas are rich 
counterpoint generators. And I'm not always sure how the percussion is 
meant.


Lutists, please don't kill me for doings this:
https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/vincenzo-galilei-contrapunto-2-b-m-raga-kamod-ronu-majumder-1

(I think it's actually pretty sweet and amazing, and groovy).



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[LUTE] Untitled Vincenzo Galilei (?) piece

[Tristan von Neumann]

Hello Lutists,

playing through Sarge Gerbode's recently published French tabs of 
Galilei, I was very surprised about this piece:


http://gerbode.net/sources/vgalilei/libro_d_intavolatura_di_liuto_1584/v4/pdf/21_untitled.pdf

which seems to be some weird precursor to Dowland's "Can she excuse".
Am I on the wrong track or does this piece ring a bell with you too?
Apparently, this does not need to be by Galilei, as the collection is 
titled "di diversi". I'm puzzled.


Cheers,
Tristan



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[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Ed Durbrow]

Zak, can I borrow your left hand for my next project?
Like the review said you make light of the technical challenges.


Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/





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[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[M Hall]

Zac said " While most people in the
   wider classical music community think about this development as having
   been spearheaded by the keyboard instruments (J.S. Bachs The
   Well-Tempered Clavier collection greatly contributed to it), I wanted
   to emphasize that the lute and lutenists were able to do this much
   earlier because of the use of equal temperament".

Let's not forget that baroque guitarists were playing in all 24 keys as
well!
I am sure I will enjoy listening to your recording.  Good luck with it.

Monica





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[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Stephan Olbertz]

   Well, you are free to join in the scholarly discourse :-)


   Stephan


   Von: Dante Rosati [mailto:danteros...@gmail.com]
   Gesendet: Montag, 1. Februar 2016 16:18
   An: Stephan Olbertz
   Cc: Lute Net
   Betreff: Re: [LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute


   you mean some guy named Bradley Lehman's own crazy conspiracy theory
   about Bach's tuning.


   On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 1:54 AM, Stephan Olbertz
   <[1]stephan.olbe...@web.de> wrote:

   Not to forget Bach's own tuning:
   [2]http://www.larips.com
   Regards
   Stephan
   -Urspruengliche Nachricht-
   Von: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
   Im Auftrag
   von Christopher Wilke
   Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Januar 2016 20:58
   An: Dante Rosati; Roman Turovsky
   Cc: Lute Net
   Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute
  "Well-tempered" is a non-specific term. It's been applied to tuning
  systems proposed by a number of theorists including Werckmeister,
  Neidhardt, Kirnbertger, Valotti, etc. There is no scholarly
   consensus
  about which one of these - if any - Bach may have intended in "Das
  Wohltemperierte Klavier." Galilei obviously didn't use any of those.
  "Well-tempered," then, is a general term that apparently means
   "tuned
  well" in this context in reference to the composer's interest in
  practical tuning. I don't think Zak is trying to mislead anyone and
  there's really no need for him to justify the album title.
  Chris
  [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
  On Sunday, January 31, 2016, 1:42 PM, Dante Rosati
  <[5]danteros...@gmail.com> wrote:
i dont see anyone arguing against ET. the point is simple: the CD
   is
called "the well tempered lute" (an obvious reference to the "well
tempered clavier"), but, unlike Bach's cycle, which was actually
  meant
to be played in a "well temperament" (which is not equal
  temperament),
the Galelei pieces are meant to be played in equal temperament,
   and
according to Zak, that is indeed how his lute is tuned. Its more
   an
issue of false advertisement. Thats why, when I saw his original
  post,
I was like "oh, that sounds interesting: a lute somehow fretting
   in a
well-temperament! let me ask how he does it."
[cleardot.gif]
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Roman Turovsky
<[1][2][6]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
  uffa
  Reminds me of an old armenian joke, about a guy who was
   selling
  a
  weird
  purple horse. Asked how come it is that way, he said: "It is
  mine, and
  I paint it whatever color I want." You may tune your axe
  whichever way
  pleases you, if the end-result justifies it.
  I'm certain Gorzanis and Galilei found ET to be as beautiful
   as
  I
  do.
  RT
  On 1/31/2016 12:25 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
  that is not relevant to the issue of calling a recording of
  Galelei
  lute pieces "well tempered" when its not.
  On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Roman Turovsky
  <[1][2][3][7]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
  Werckmeister switched to EqualT toward the end of his life.
  RT
  On 1/31/2016 12:16 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
  [2][3][4][8]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament
  On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky

<[3][4][5][9]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
  Early history
One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament
   occurs
  in
      the
writing of [1]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.
[2]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [3]Galileo Galilei) was one
   of
the
  first
practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He
composed
  a set
of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic
  scale
in
  all
the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584
  "[4]Fronimo",
24 + 1 [5]ricercars.^[6][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for
fretting
  the
lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure
  octaves).^[7][23]
Galilei's countryman and fellow [8]lutenist [9]Giacomo
  Gorzanis
  had
written music based on equal temperament by
  1567.^[10][24]^[11][25]
Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or
keys:
   

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Sean Smith]

Dear Zak,

Thankfully this is not about tuning. 

The Libro d’intavolatura is indeed fascinating and deserves greater interest. I 
have a question about your word “circulated”. I was under the impression that 
VG prepared the ms. for publication and it never proceeded further. Since it 
remained in his possession he added to it later.

In Orlando Cristoforetti’s introduction there is no information on the fate of 
the manuscript between the addition of his final pieces and its present 
location. He does note that there are two pieces added in a different hand 
which may indicate another or later owner. Are there pieces that are found in 
other sources or are there other indications of circulation?

Sean



On Jan 28, 2016, at 2:08 PM, zak ozmo <z_o...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>  Dear friends and colleagues,
> 
>  I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my new solo lute CD on
>  Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered Lute:
> 
> 
>  [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
> 
> 
>  This is the first volume of the fascinating well-tempered lute section
>  of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584), covering dances in
>  major and minor tonality on the first four steps of the chromatic
>  scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before J.S. Bachs The
>  Well Tempered Clavier!  I hope the recording will be of interest.
> 
> 
>  With all best wishes,
> 
> 
>  Zak Ozmo
> 
> 
>  [2]www.zakozmo.com
> 
>  [3]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk
> 
> 
>  --
> 
> References
> 
>  1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
>  2. http://www.zakozmo.com/
>  3. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Alain]

Zak,
Congratulations on a beautiful recording - I particularly enjoyed your 
phrasing, which is one of the very difficult things to do well on a 
lute. If I were sarcastic, I would it is almost as difficult as tuning 
the damn thing - But I will leave that to those who are still trying to 
tune their instrument.

Alain

On 02/01/2016 05:12 PM, zak ozmo wrote:

Dear all,
First, I must say that I am rather pleased that the recording and its
title are attracting interest, and sparking a discussion!  So, thank
you for that.
Regarding the title, as Chris has pointed out, the term well-tempered
indicated a concept rather than any particular tuning system.  It
seemed to refer to any tuning system in which one can play in all 24
keys while sounding tolerably (and please lets not try to define the
term tolerable now! :)) in tune throughout.  While most people in the
wider classical music community think about this development as having
been spearheaded by the keyboard instruments (J.S. Bachs The
Well-Tempered Clavier collection greatly contributed to it), I wanted
to emphasize that the lute and lutenists were able to do this much
earlier, even before the sequence of keys as we know it was fully
defined,  because of the use of equal temperament.
In any case,   I hope that people like the recording!
With many thanks and all best wishes,
Zak
Mobile:(+44/0)7962 449 537
http://www.zakozmo.com
> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:57:32 +
> To: danteros...@gmail.com; r.turov...@gmail.com
> CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> From: chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute
>
> "Well-tempered" is a non-specific term. It's been applied to tuning
> systems proposed by a number of theorists including Werckmeister,
> Neidhardt, Kirnbertger, Valotti, etc. There is no scholarly consensus
> about which one of these - if any - Bach may have intended in "Das
> Wohltemperierte Klavier." Galilei obviously didn't use any of those.
>
> "Well-tempered," then, is a general term that apparently means "tuned
> well" in this context in reference to the composer's interest in
> practical tuning. I don't think Zak is trying to mislead anyone and
> there's really no need for him to justify the album title.
>
> Chris
> [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
> On Sunday, January 31, 2016, 1:42 PM, Dante Rosati
> <danteros...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> i dont see anyone arguing against ET. the point is simple: the CD is
> called "the well tempered lute" (an obvious reference to the "well
> tempered clavier"), but, unlike Bach's cycle, which was actually
> meant
> to be played in a "well temperament" (which is not equal
> temperament),
> the Galelei pieces are meant to be played in equal temperament, and
> according to Zak, that is indeed how his lute is tuned. Its more an
> issue of false advertisement. Thats why, when I saw his original
> post,
> I was like "oh, that sounds interesting: a lute somehow fretting in a
> well-temperament! let me ask how he does it."
> [cleardot.gif]
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Roman Turovsky
> <[1][2]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> uffa
> Reminds me of an old armenian joke, about a guy who was selling
> a
> weird
> purple horse. Asked how come it is that way, he said: "It is
> mine, and
> I paint it whatever color I want." You may tune your axe
> whichever way
> pleases you, if the end-result justifies it.
> I'm certain Gorzanis and Galilei found ET to be as beautiful as
> I
> do.
> RT
> On 1/31/2016 12:25 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
> that is not relevant to the issue of calling a recording of
> Galelei
> lute pieces "well tempered" when its not.
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Roman Turovsky
> <[1][2][3]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Werckmeister switched to EqualT toward the end of his life.
> RT
> On 1/31/2016 12:16 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
> [2][3][4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky
> <[3][4][5]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Early history
> One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament occurs
> in
> the
> writing of [1]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.
> [2]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [3]Galileo Galilei) was one of
> the
> first
> practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He
> com

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[dws]

Any electronic distribution?
David

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of zak ozmo
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 7:13 PM
To: Omer Katzir <kome...@gmail.com>
Cc: Dante Rosati <danteros...@gmail.com>; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

   Dear Omer,
   Thank you for your interest!  In the US the CD will be released on 5
   Feb., and it will be widely available (including Amazon):

   [1]http://www.amazon.com/Galilei-Well-tempered-Lute-Zak-Ozmo/dp/B017MZS
   JR6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8=1454200245=8-1=well+tempered+lut
   e


   It has just been released in the UK:
   http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68017
   With all best wishes,
Zak
   Mobile:(+44/0)7962 449 537
   http://www.zakozmo.com
   > Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 20:00:55 +0200
   > To: z_o...@hotmail.com
   > CC: danteros...@gmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   > From: kome...@gmail.com
   > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute
   >
   > Hi Zak,
   > Finally people paying attention to Galelei family again, I'm looking
   > forward to hear the CD.
   > Do you know if it's going to be possible to buy it at Amazon?
   >
   > On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 7:20 PM, zak ozmo <[1]z_o...@hotmail.com>
   > wrote:
   >
   > Dear Dante,
   > Thank you for your interest. Yes, both Vincenzo Galilei and
   > others
   > speak about equal temperament tuning on the lutes. There are
   > about
   > twelve documented 'well-tempered' tuning systems from the time,
   > and
   > equal temperament is one of them. In case this would be of
   > interest,
   > I wanted to address these exact questions in my article which
   > will be
   > published in the February edition of Early Music.
   > With all best wishes,
   > Zak
   > Mobile:[2](+44/0)7962 449 537
   > [3]http://www.zakozmo.com
   > > Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 20:53:12 -0500
   > > To: [4]z_o...@hotmail.com
   > > CC: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   > > From: [6]danteros...@gmail.com
   > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute
   > >
   > > HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you know,
   > there
   > > were various methods of placing the frets back then, none of
   > which
   > were
   > > exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it "the
   > well
   > > tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used in
   > his
   > > keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either.
   > >
   > > On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo
   > <[1][7]z_o...@hotmail.com>
   > > wrote:
   > >
   > > Dear friends and colleagues,
   > > I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my new solo
   > lute
   > > CD on
   > > Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered Lute:
   > > [1][2][8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
   > > This is the first volume of the fascinating well-tempered lute
   > > section
   > > of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584), covering
   > dances
   > > in
   > > major and minor tonality on the first four steps of the
   > chromatic
   > > scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before J.S.
   > Bachs
   > > The
   > > Well Tempered Clavier! I hope the recording will be of
   > > interest.
   > > With all best wishes,
   > > Zak Ozmo
   > > [2][3][9]www.zakozmo.com
   > > [3][4][10]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk
   > > --
   > > References
   > > 1. [5][11]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
   > > 2. [6][12]http://www.zakozmo.com/
   > > 3. [7][13]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
   > > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > > [8][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   > >
   > > --
   > >
   > > References
   > >
   > > 1. mailto:[15]z_o...@hotmail.com
   > > 2. [16]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
   > > 3. [17]http://www.zakozmo.com/
   > > 4. [18]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
   > > 5. [19]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
   > > 6. [20]http://www.zakozmo.com/
   > > 7. [21]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
   > > 8. [22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   > >
   > --
   >
   > --
   > Omer Katzir
   > The Silent Troubadour
   > [23]http://omerkatzir.com
   >
   > --
   >
   > References
   >
   > 1. mailto:z_o...@hotmail.com
   > 2. tel:%28%2B44%2F0%297962%20449%20537
   > 3. http://www.zakozmo.com/
   > 4. mailto:z_o...@hotmail.co

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Dante Rosati]

   you mean some guy named Bradley Lehman's own crazy conspiracy theory
   about Bach's tuning.
   On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 1:54 AM, Stephan Olbertz
   <[1]stephan.olbe...@web.de> wrote:

 Not to forget Bach's own tuning:
 [2]http://www.larips.com
 Regards
 Stephan
 -UrsprA 1/4ngliche Nachricht-
 Von: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 [mailto:[4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag
 von Christopher Wilke
 Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Januar 2016 20:58
 An: Dante Rosati; Roman Turovsky
 Cc: Lute Net
 Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute
"Well-tempered" is a non-specific term. It's been applied to
 tuning
systems proposed by a number of theorists including Werckmeister,
Neidhardt, Kirnbertger, Valotti, etc. There is no scholarly
 consensus
about which one of these - if any - Bach may have intended in
 "Das
Wohltemperierte Klavier." Galilei obviously didn't use any of
 those.
"Well-tempered," then, is a general term that apparently means
 "tuned
well" in this context in reference to the composer's interest in
practical tuning. I don't think Zak is trying to mislead anyone
 and
there's really no need for him to justify the album title.
Chris
[1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Sunday, January 31, 2016, 1:42 PM, Dante Rosati
<[5]danteros...@gmail.com> wrote:
  i dont see anyone arguing against ET. the point is simple: the
 CD is
  called "the well tempered lute" (an obvious reference to the
 "well
  tempered clavier"), but, unlike Bach's cycle, which was
 actually
meant
  to be played in a "well temperament" (which is not equal
temperament),
  the Galelei pieces are meant to be played in equal temperament,
 and
  according to Zak, that is indeed how his lute is tuned. Its
 more an
  issue of false advertisement. Thats why, when I saw his
 original
post,
  I was like "oh, that sounds interesting: a lute somehow
 fretting in a
  well-temperament! let me ask how he does it."
  [cleardot.gif]
  On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Roman Turovsky
  <[1][2][6]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
uffa
Reminds me of an old armenian joke, about a guy who was
 selling
a
weird
purple horse. Asked how come it is that way, he said: "It
 is
mine, and
I paint it whatever color I want." You may tune your axe
whichever way
    pleases you, if the end-result justifies it.
I'm certain Gorzanis and Galilei found ET to be as
 beautiful as
I
do.
RT
On 1/31/2016 12:25 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
that is not relevant to the issue of calling a recording
 of
Galelei
lute pieces "well tempered" when its not.
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Roman Turovsky
<[1][2][3][7]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
Werckmeister switched to EqualT toward the end of his
 life.
RT
On 1/31/2016 12:16 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:

 [2][3][4][8]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky

<[3][4][5][9]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
  Early history
One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament
   occurs
  in
      the
writing of [1]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.
[2]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [3]Galileo Galilei) was one
   of
the
  first
practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He
composed
  a set
of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic
  scale
in
  all
the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584
  "[4]Fronimo",
24 + 1 [5]ricercars.^[6][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for
fretting
  the
lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure
  octaves).^[7][23]
Galilei's countryman and fellow [8]lutenist [9]Giacomo
  Gorzanis
  had
written music based on equal temperament by
  1567.^[10][24]^[11][25]
Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or
keys:
[12]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare de tutti li
   Toni"
([13]Ricercar 

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Dante Rosati]

   i dont see anyone arguing against ET. the point is simple: the CD is
   called "the well tempered lute" (an obvious reference to the "well
   tempered clavier"), but, unlike Bach's cycle, which was actually meant
   to be played in a "well temperament" (which is not equal temperament),
   the Galelei pieces are meant to be played in equal temperament, and
   according to Zak, that is indeed how his lute is tuned. Its more an
   issue of false advertisement. Thats why, when I saw his original post,
   I was like "oh, that sounds interesting: a lute somehow fretting in a
   well-temperament! let me ask how he does it."
   [cleardot.gif]

   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Roman Turovsky
   <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:

uffa
Reminds me of an old armenian joke, about a guy who was selling a
 weird
purple horse. Asked how come it is that way, he said: "It is
 mine, and
I paint it whatever color I want." You may tune your axe
 whichever way
pleases you, if the end-result justifies it.
I'm certain Gorzanis and Galilei found ET to be as beautiful as I
 do.
RT
On 1/31/2016 12:25 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
that is not relevant to the issue of calling a recording of
 Galelei
lute pieces "well tempered" when its not.
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Roman Turovsky
<[1][2]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
Werckmeister switched to EqualT toward the end of his life.
RT
On 1/31/2016 12:16 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
[2][3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky

  <[3][4]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
Early history
   One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament occurs in
the
   writing of [1]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.
   [2]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [3]Galileo Galilei) was one of
   the
first
   practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He
   composed
a set
   of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale
   in
all
   the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584
"[4]Fronimo",
   24 + 1 [5]ricercars.^[6][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for
   fretting
the
   lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure
octaves).^[7][23]
   Galilei's countryman and fellow [8]lutenist [9]Giacomo Gorzanis
had
   written music based on equal temperament by
1567.^[10][24]^[11][25]
   Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or
   keys:
   [12]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare de tutti li Toni"
   ([13]Ricercar in all the Tones) as early as 1507.^[14][26] In
   the
17th
   century lutenist-composer [15]John Wilson wrote a set of 30
preludes
   including 24 in all the major/minor keys.^[16][27]^[17][28]
   [18]Henricus Grammateus drew a close approximation to equal
temperament
   in 1518. The first tuning rules in equal temperament were given
by
   [19]Giovani Maria Lanfranco in his "Scintille de
musica".^[20][29]
   [21]Zarlino in his [22]polemic with Galilei initially opposed
equal
   temperament but eventually conceded to it in relation to the
[23]lute
   in his Sopplimenti musicali in 1588.
   RT
   On 1/31/2016 12:04 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
   "something like" equal temperament. If you look at fret placing
   instructions in Bermudo, etc, there is nothing that gives exact
equal
   temperament. There is also the use of tastini to take into
account. But
   yes, the convergence on equal temperament that became universal
   a
few
   hundred years later was probably spearheaded by the fretted
instruments
   (including viols). In any case, a "well temperament" is not
   equal
   temperament.
   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Roman Turovsky

 <[24][4][5]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
   Lute was an early vehicle of EQUAL temperament. and that
 is the
   scholarly consensus.
   RT
 On 1/30/2016 8:53 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
   HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As
 you
  know,
   there
   were various methods of placing the frets back then,
 none
  of
   which were
   exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is
 calling it
  "the
   well
   tempered lute", since "well t

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Christopher Wilke]

   "Well-tempered" is a non-specific term. It's been applied to tuning
   systems proposed by a number of theorists including Werckmeister,
   Neidhardt, Kirnbertger, Valotti, etc. There is no scholarly consensus
   about which one of these - if any - Bach may have intended in "Das
   Wohltemperierte Klavier." Galilei obviously didn't use any of those.

   "Well-tempered," then, is a general term that apparently means "tuned
   well" in this context in reference to the composer's interest in
   practical tuning. I don't think Zak is trying to mislead anyone and
   there's really no need for him to justify the album title.

   Chris
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   On Sunday, January 31, 2016, 1:42 PM, Dante Rosati
   <danteros...@gmail.com> wrote:

 i dont see anyone arguing against ET. the point is simple: the CD is
 called "the well tempered lute" (an obvious reference to the "well
 tempered clavier"), but, unlike Bach's cycle, which was actually
   meant
 to be played in a "well temperament" (which is not equal
   temperament),
 the Galelei pieces are meant to be played in equal temperament, and
 according to Zak, that is indeed how his lute is tuned. Its more an
 issue of false advertisement. Thats why, when I saw his original
   post,
 I was like "oh, that sounds interesting: a lute somehow fretting in a
 well-temperament! let me ask how he does it."
 [cleardot.gif]
 On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Roman Turovsky
 <[1][2]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
   uffa
   Reminds me of an old armenian joke, about a guy who was selling
   a
   weird
   purple horse. Asked how come it is that way, he said: "It is
   mine, and
   I paint it whatever color I want." You may tune your axe
   whichever way
   pleases you, if the end-result justifies it.
   I'm certain Gorzanis and Galilei found ET to be as beautiful as
   I
   do.
   RT
   On 1/31/2016 12:25 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
   that is not relevant to the issue of calling a recording of
   Galelei
   lute pieces "well tempered" when its not.
   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Roman Turovsky
   <[1][2][3]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
   Werckmeister switched to EqualT toward the end of his life.
   RT
   On 1/31/2016 12:16 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
   [2][3][4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament
   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky
 <[3][4][5]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
   Early history
 One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament occurs
   in
   the
 writing of [1]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.
 [2]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [3]Galileo Galilei) was one of
 the
   first
 practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He
 composed
   a set
 of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic
   scale
 in
   all
 the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584
   "[4]Fronimo",
 24 + 1 [5]ricercars.^[6][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for
 fretting
   the
 lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure
   octaves).^[7][23]
 Galilei's countryman and fellow [8]lutenist [9]Giacomo
   Gorzanis
   had
 written music based on equal temperament by
   1567.^[10][24]^[11][25]
 Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or
 keys:
 [12]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare de tutti li Toni"
 ([13]Ricercar in all the Tones) as early as 1507.^[14][26] In
 the
   17th
 century lutenist-composer [15]John Wilson wrote a set of 30
   preludes
 including 24 in all the major/minor keys.^[16][27]^[17][28]
 [18]Henricus Grammateus drew a close approximation to equal
   temperament
 in 1518. The first tuning rules in equal temperament were
   given
   by
 [19]Giovani Maria Lanfranco in his "Scintille de
   musica".^[20][29]
 [21]Zarlino in his [22]polemic with Galilei initially opposed
   equal
 temperament but eventually conceded to it in relation to the
   [23]lute
 in his Sopplimenti musicali in 1588.
 RT
 On 1/31/2016 12:04 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
 "something like" equal temperament. If you look at fret
   placing
 instructions in Bermudo, etc, there is nothing that gives
   exact
   equal
 temperament. There is also the use of tasti

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Roman Turovsky]

Lute was an early vehicle of EQUAL temperament. and that is the 
scholarly consensus.

RT

On 1/30/2016 8:53 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:

HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you know, there
were various methods of placing the frets back then, none of which were
exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it "the well
tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used in his
keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either.

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo <[1]z_o...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

 Dear friends and colleagues,
 I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my new solo lute
  CD on
 Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered Lute:
 [1][2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
 This is the first volume of the fascinating well-tempered lute
  section
 of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584), covering dances
  in
 major and minor tonality on the first four steps of the chromatic
 scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before J.S. Bachs
  The
 Well Tempered Clavier!   I hope the recording will be of
  interest.
 With all best wishes,
 Zak Ozmo
 [2][3]www.zakozmo.com
 [3][4]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk
 --
  References
 1. [5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
 2. [6]http://www.zakozmo.com/
 3. [7]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. mailto:z_o...@hotmail.com
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
3. http://www.zakozmo.com/
4. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
6. http://www.zakozmo.com/
7. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Roman Turovsky]

Early history

   One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament occurs in the
   writing of [1]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.

   [2]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [3]Galileo Galilei) was one of the first
   practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He composed a set
   of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale in all
   the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584 "[4]Fronimo",
   24 + 1 [5]ricercars.^[6][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for fretting the
   lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure octaves).^[7][23]

   Galilei's countryman and fellow [8]lutenist [9]Giacomo Gorzanis had
   written music based on equal temperament by 1567.^[10][24]^[11][25]
   Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or keys:
   [12]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare de tutti li Toni"
   ([13]Ricercar in all the Tones) as early as 1507.^[14][26] In the 17th
   century lutenist-composer [15]John Wilson wrote a set of 30 preludes
   including 24 in all the major/minor keys.^[16][27]^[17][28]

   [18]Henricus Grammateus drew a close approximation to equal temperament
   in 1518. The first tuning rules in equal temperament were given by
   [19]Giovani Maria Lanfranco in his "Scintille de musica".^[20][29]
   [21]Zarlino in his [22]polemic with Galilei initially opposed equal
   temperament but eventually conceded to it in relation to the [23]lute
   in his Sopplimenti musicali in 1588.

   RT

   On 1/31/2016 12:04 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:

   "something like" equal temperament. If you look at fret placing
   instructions in Bermudo, etc, there is nothing that gives exact equal
   temperament. There is also the use of tastini to take into account. But
   yes, the convergence on equal temperament that became universal a few
   hundred years later was probably spearheaded by the fretted instruments
   (including viols). In any case, a "well temperament" is not equal
   temperament.
   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Roman Turovsky
   <[24]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Lute was an early vehicle of EQUAL temperament. and that is the
 scholarly consensus.
 RT

   On 1/30/2016 8:53 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:

 HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you know,
 there
 were various methods of placing the frets back then, none of
 which were
 exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it "the
 well
 tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used in
 his
 keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either.
 On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo
 <[1][25]z_o...@hotmail.com>
 wrote:
  Dear friends and colleagues,
  I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my new
 solo lute
   CD on
  Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered Lute:
  [1][2][26]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
  This is the first volume of the fascinating well-tempered
 lute
   section
  of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584), covering
 dances
   in
  major and minor tonality on the first four steps of the
 chromatic
  scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before J.S.
 Bachs
   The
  Well Tempered Clavier!   I hope the recording will be of
   interest.
  With all best wishes,
  Zak Ozmo
  [2][3][27]www.zakozmo.com
  [3][4][28]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk
  --
   References
  1. [5][29]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
  2. [6][30]http://www.zakozmo.com/
  3. [7][31]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [8][32]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
 References
 1. mailto:[33]z_o...@hotmail.com
 2. [34]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
 3. [35]http://www.zakozmo.com/
 4. [36]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
 5. [37]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
 6. [38]http://www.zakozmo.com/
 7. [39]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
 8. [40]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   Visible links
   1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristoxenus
   2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincenzo_Galilei
   3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei
   4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fronimo_Dialogo
   5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricercar
   6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament#cite_note-22
   7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament#cite_note-23
   8. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutenist
   9. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Omer Katzir]

   Hi Zak,
   Finally people paying attention  to  Galelei family  again, I'm looking
   forward to hear the CD.
   Do you know if it's going to be  possible  to buy it at Amazon?

   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 7:20 PM, zak ozmo <[1]z_o...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

Dear Dante,
Thank you for your interest.   Yes, both Vincenzo Galilei and
 others
speak about equal temperament tuning on the lutes.   There are
 about
twelve documented 'well-tempered' tuning systems from the time,
 and
equal temperament is one of them.In case this would be of
 interest,
I wanted to address these exact questions in my article which
 will be
published in the February edition of Early Music.
With all best wishes,
Zak
Mobile:[2](+44/0)7962 449 537
[3]http://www.zakozmo.com
> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 20:53:12 -0500
> To: [4]z_o...@hotmail.com
> CC: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> From: [6]danteros...@gmail.com
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute
>
> HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you know,
 there
> were various methods of placing the frets back then, none of
 which
were
> exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it "the
 well
> tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used in
 his
> keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either.
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo
 <[1][7]z_o...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear friends and colleagues,
> I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my new solo
 lute
> CD on
> Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered Lute:
> [1][2][8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
> This is the first volume of the fascinating well-tempered lute
> section
> of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584), covering
 dances
> in
> major and minor tonality on the first four steps of the
 chromatic
> scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before J.S.
 Bachs
> The
> Well Tempered Clavier! I hope the recording will be of
> interest.
> With all best wishes,
> Zak Ozmo
> [2][3][9]www.zakozmo.com
> [3][4][10]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk
> --
> References
> 1. [5][11]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
> 2. [6][12]http://www.zakozmo.com/
> 3. [7][13]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [8][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[15]z_o...@hotmail.com
> 2. [16]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
> 3. [17]http://www.zakozmo.com/
> 4. [18]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
> 5. [19]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
> 6. [20]http://www.zakozmo.com/
> 7. [21]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
> 8. [22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--

   --
   Omer Katzir
   The Silent Troubadour
   [23]http://omerkatzir.com

   --

References

   1. mailto:z_o...@hotmail.com
   2. tel:%28%2B44%2F0%297962%20449%20537
   3. http://www.zakozmo.com/
   4. mailto:z_o...@hotmail.com
   5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. mailto:danteros...@gmail.com
   7. mailto:z_o...@hotmail.com
   8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
   9. http://www.zakozmo.com/
  10. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
  11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
  12. http://www.zakozmo.com/
  13. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
  14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  15. mailto:z_o...@hotmail.com
  16. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
  17. http://www.zakozmo.com/
  18. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
  19. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
  20. http://www.zakozmo.com/
  21. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
  22. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  23. http://omerkatzir.com/

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Dante Rosati]

   [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament

   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky
   <[2]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Early history
One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament occurs in
 the
writing of [1]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.
[2]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [3]Galileo Galilei) was one of the
 first
practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He composed
 a set
of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale in
 all
the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584
 "[4]Fronimo",
24 + 1 [5]ricercars.^[6][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for fretting
 the
lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure
 octaves).^[7][23]
Galilei's countryman and fellow [8]lutenist [9]Giacomo Gorzanis
 had
written music based on equal temperament by
 1567.^[10][24]^[11][25]
Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or keys:
[12]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare de tutti li Toni"
([13]Ricercar in all the Tones) as early as 1507.^[14][26] In the
 17th
century lutenist-composer [15]John Wilson wrote a set of 30
 preludes
including 24 in all the major/minor keys.^[16][27]^[17][28]
[18]Henricus Grammateus drew a close approximation to equal
 temperament
in 1518. The first tuning rules in equal temperament were given
 by
[19]Giovani Maria Lanfranco in his "Scintille de
 musica".^[20][29]
    [21]Zarlino in his [22]polemic with Galilei initially opposed
 equal
temperament but eventually conceded to it in relation to the
 [23]lute
in his Sopplimenti musicali in 1588.
RT
On 1/31/2016 12:04 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
"something like" equal temperament. If you look at fret placing
instructions in Bermudo, etc, there is nothing that gives exact
 equal
temperament. There is also the use of tastini to take into
 account. But
yes, the convergence on equal temperament that became universal a
 few
hundred years later was probably spearheaded by the fretted
 instruments
(including viols). In any case, a "well temperament" is not equal
temperament.
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Roman Turovsky
<[24][3]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
  Lute was an early vehicle of EQUAL temperament. and that is the
  scholarly consensus.
  RT
On 1/30/2016 8:53 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
  HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you
 know,
  there
  were various methods of placing the frets back then, none
 of
  which were
  exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it
 "the
  well
  tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used
 in
  his
  keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either.
  On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo
  <[1][25][4]z_o...@hotmail.com>
  wrote:
   Dear friends and colleagues,
   I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my
 new
  solo lute
CD on
   Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered
 Lute:
   [1][2][26][5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
   This is the first volume of the fascinating
 well-tempered
  lute
section
   of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584),
 covering
  dances
in
   major and minor tonality on the first four steps of
 the
  chromatic
   scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before
 J.S.
  Bachs
The
   Well Tempered Clavier!I hope the recording will be
 of
interest.
   With all best wishes,
   Zak Ozmo
   [2][3][27][6]www.zakozmo.com
   [3][4][28][7]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk
   --
References
   1. [5][29][8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
   2. [6][30][9]http://www.zakozmo.com/
   3. [7][31][10]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
To get on or off this list see list information at

 [8][32][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  --
  References
  1. mailto:[33][12]z_o...@hotmail.com
  2. [34][13]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
  3. [35][14]http://www.zakozmo.com/
  4. [36][15]ht

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Roman Turovsky]

   beh, dipende sul masochismo acustico individuale!)))
   RT

   On 1/31/2016 12:10 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:

   in which case calling it "well tempered" is particularly inappropriate.
   notice that the 18:17 fret placing method is only approximately equal.

   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky
   <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:

Early history

   One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament occurs in the
   writing of [2]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.

   [3]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [4]Galileo Galilei) was one of the first
   practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He composed a set
   of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale in all
   the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584 "[5]Fronimo",
   24 + 1 [6]ricercars.^[7][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for fretting the
   lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure octaves).^[8][23]

   Galilei's countryman and fellow [9]lutenist [10]Giacomo Gorzanis had
   written music based on equal temperament by 1567.^[11][24]^[12][25]
   Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or keys:
   [13]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare de tutti li Toni"
   ([14]Ricercar in all the Tones) as early as 1507.^[15][26] In the 17th
   century lutenist-composer [16]John Wilson wrote a set of 30 preludes
   including 24 in all the major/minor keys.^[17][27]^[18][28]

   [19]Henricus Grammateus drew a close approximation to equal temperament
   in 1518. The first tuning rules in equal temperament were given by
   [20]Giovani Maria Lanfranco in his "Scintille de musica".^[21][29]
   [22]Zarlino in his [23]polemic with Galilei initially opposed equal
   temperament but eventually conceded to it in relation to the [24]lute
   in his Sopplimenti musicali in 1588.

   RT
   On 1/31/2016 12:04 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:

   "something like" equal temperament. If you look at fret placing
   instructions in Bermudo, etc, there is nothing that gives exact equal
   temperament. There is also the use of tastini to take into account. But
   yes, the convergence on equal temperament that became universal a few
   hundred years later was probably spearheaded by the fretted instruments
   (including viols). In any case, a "well temperament" is not equal
   temperament.
   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Roman Turovsky
   <[25]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Lute was an early vehicle of EQUAL temperament. and that is the
 scholarly consensus.
 RT

   On 1/30/2016 8:53 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:

 HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you know,
 there
 were various methods of placing the frets back then, none of
 which were
 exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it "the
 well
 tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used in
 his
 keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either.
 On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo
 <[1][26]z_o...@hotmail.com>
 wrote:
  Dear friends and colleagues,
  I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my new
 solo lute
   CD on
  Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered Lute:
  [1][2][27]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
  This is the first volume of the fascinating well-tempered
 lute
   section
  of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584), covering
 dances
   in
  major and minor tonality on the first four steps of the
 chromatic
  scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before J.S.
 Bachs
   The
  Well Tempered Clavier!   I hope the recording will be of
   interest.
  With all best wishes,
  Zak Ozmo
  [2][3][28]www.zakozmo.com
  [3][4][29]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk
  --
   References
  1. [5][30]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
  2. [6][31]http://www.zakozmo.com/
  3. [7][32]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [8][33]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
 References
 1. mailto:[34]z_o...@hotmail.com
 2. [35]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
 3. [36]http://www.zakozmo.com/
 4. [37]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
 5. [38]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
 6. [39]http://www.zakozmo.com/
 7. [40]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
 8. [41]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   Visible links
   1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristoxenus
   3. https://en.wikipedia.

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Dante Rosati]

   in which case calling it "well tempered" is particularly inappropriate.
   notice that the 18:17 fret placing method is only approximately equal.

   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky
   <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:

Early history

   One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament occurs in the
   writing of [2]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.

   [3]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [4]Galileo Galilei) was one of the first
   practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He composed a set
   of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale in all
   the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584 "[5]Fronimo",
   24 + 1 [6]ricercars.^[7][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for fretting the
   lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure octaves).^[8][23]

   Galilei's countryman and fellow [9]lutenist [10]Giacomo Gorzanis had
   written music based on equal temperament by 1567.^[11][24]^[12][25]
   Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or keys:
   [13]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare de tutti li Toni"
   ([14]Ricercar in all the Tones) as early as 1507.^[15][26] In the 17th
   century lutenist-composer [16]John Wilson wrote a set of 30 preludes
   including 24 in all the major/minor keys.^[17][27]^[18][28]

   [19]Henricus Grammateus drew a close approximation to equal temperament
   in 1518. The first tuning rules in equal temperament were given by
   [20]Giovani Maria Lanfranco in his "Scintille de musica".^[21][29]
   [22]Zarlino in his [23]polemic with Galilei initially opposed equal
   temperament but eventually conceded to it in relation to the [24]lute
   in his Sopplimenti musicali in 1588.

   RT
   On 1/31/2016 12:04 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:

   "something like" equal temperament. If you look at fret placing
   instructions in Bermudo, etc, there is nothing that gives exact equal
   temperament. There is also the use of tastini to take into account. But
   yes, the convergence on equal temperament that became universal a few
   hundred years later was probably spearheaded by the fretted instruments
   (including viols). In any case, a "well temperament" is not equal
   temperament.
   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Roman Turovsky
   <[25]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Lute was an early vehicle of EQUAL temperament. and that is the
 scholarly consensus.
 RT

   On 1/30/2016 8:53 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:

 HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you know,
 there
 were various methods of placing the frets back then, none of
 which were
 exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it "the
 well
 tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used in
 his
 keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either.
 On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo
 <[1][26]z_o...@hotmail.com>
 wrote:
  Dear friends and colleagues,
  I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my new
 solo lute
   CD on
  Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered Lute:
  [1][2][27]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
  This is the first volume of the fascinating well-tempered
 lute
   section
  of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584), covering
 dances
   in
  major and minor tonality on the first four steps of the
 chromatic
  scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before J.S.
 Bachs
   The
  Well Tempered Clavier!I hope the recording will be of
   interest.
  With all best wishes,
  Zak Ozmo
  [2][3][28]www.zakozmo.com
  [3][4][29]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk
  --
   References
  1. [5][30]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
  2. [6][31]http://www.zakozmo.com/
  3. [7][32]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [8][33]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
 References
 1. mailto:[34]z_o...@hotmail.com
 2. [35]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
 3. [36]http://www.zakozmo.com/
 4. [37]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
 5. [38]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
 6. [39]http://www.zakozmo.com/
 7. [40]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
 8. [41]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   Visible links
   1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristoxenus
   3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincenzo_Galilei
   4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei
   5. https://en.wi

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Roman Turovsky]

   Exactly. Well said.
   RT

   On 1/31/2016 2:57 PM, Christopher Wilke wrote:

   "Well-tempered" is a non-specific term. It's been applied to tuning
   systems proposed by a number of theorists including Werckmeister,
   Neidhardt, Kirnbertger, Valotti, etc. There is no scholarly consensus
   about which one of these - if any - Bach may have intended in "Das
   Wohltemperierte Klavier." Galilei obviously didn't use any of those.

   "Well-tempered," then, is a general term that apparently means "tuned
   well" in this context in reference to the composer's interest in
   practical tuning. I don't think Zak is trying to mislead anyone and
   there's really no need for him to justify the album title.

   Chris
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   On Sunday, January 31, 2016, 1:42 PM, Dante Rosati
   [2]<danteros...@gmail.com> wrote:

 i dont see anyone arguing against ET. the point is simple: the CD is
 called "the well tempered lute" (an obvious reference to the "well
 tempered clavier"), but, unlike Bach's cycle, which was actually
   meant
 to be played in a "well temperament" (which is not equal
   temperament),
 the Galelei pieces are meant to be played in equal temperament, and
 according to Zak, that is indeed how his lute is tuned. Its more an
 issue of false advertisement. Thats why, when I saw his original
   post,
 I was like "oh, that sounds interesting: a lute somehow fretting in a
 well-temperament! let me ask how he does it."
 [cleardot.gif]
 On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Roman Turovsky
 <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
   uffa
   Reminds me of an old armenian joke, about a guy who was selling
   a
   weird
   purple horse. Asked how come it is that way, he said: "It is
   mine, and
   I paint it whatever color I want." You may tune your axe
   whichever way
   pleases you, if the end-result justifies it.
   I'm certain Gorzanis and Galilei found ET to be as beautiful as
   I
   do.
   RT
   On 1/31/2016 12:25 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
   that is not relevant to the issue of calling a recording of
   Galelei
   lute pieces "well tempered" when its not.
   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Roman Turovsky
   <[1][2]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
   Werckmeister switched to EqualT toward the end of his life.
   RT
   On 1/31/2016 12:16 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
   [2][3][3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament
   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky
 <[3][4]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
   Early history
 One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament occurs
   in
   the
 writing of [1]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.
 [2]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [3]Galileo Galilei) was one of
 the
   first
 practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He
 composed
   a set
 of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic
   scale
 in
   all
 the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584
   "[4]Fronimo",
 24 + 1 [5]ricercars.^[6][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for
 fretting
   the
 lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure
   octaves).^[7][23]
 Galilei's countryman and fellow [8]lutenist [9]Giacomo
   Gorzanis
   had
 written music based on equal temperament by
   1567.^[10][24]^[11][25]
 Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or
 keys:
 [12]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare de tutti li Toni"
 ([13]Ricercar in all the Tones) as early as 1507.^[14][26] In
 the
   17th
 century lutenist-composer [15]John Wilson wrote a set of 30
   preludes
 including 24 in all the major/minor keys.^[16][27]^[17][28]
 [18]Henricus Grammateus drew a close approximation to equal
   temperament
 in 1518. The first tuning rules in equal temperament were
   given
   by
 [19]Giovani Maria Lanfranco in his "Scintille de
   musica".^[20][29]
 [21]Zarlino in his [22]polemic with Galilei initially opposed
   equal
 temperament but eventually conceded to it in relation to the
   [23]lute
 in his Sopplimenti musicali in 1588.
 RT
 On 1/31/2016 12:04 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
 "something like" equal temperament. If you look at fret
   placing
 instructions in Bermudo, etc, there is nothing that gives
  

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Dante Rosati]

   "something like" equal temperament. If you look at fret placing
   instructions in Bermudo, etc, there is nothing that gives exact equal
   temperament. There is also the use of tastini to take into account. But
   yes, the convergence on equal temperament that became universal a few
   hundred years later was probably spearheaded by the fretted instruments
   (including viols). In any case, a "well temperament" is not equal
   temperament.
   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Roman Turovsky
   <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Lute was an early vehicle of EQUAL temperament. and that is the
 scholarly consensus.
 RT

   On 1/30/2016 8:53 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:

 HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you know,
 there
 were various methods of placing the frets back then, none of
 which were
 exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it "the
 well
 tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used in
 his
 keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either.
 On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo
 <[1][2]z_o...@hotmail.com>
 wrote:
  Dear friends and colleagues,
  I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my new
 solo lute
   CD on
  Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered Lute:
  [1][2][3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
  This is the first volume of the fascinating well-tempered
 lute
   section
  of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584), covering
 dances
   in
  major and minor tonality on the first four steps of the
 chromatic
  scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before J.S.
 Bachs
   The
  Well Tempered Clavier!I hope the recording will be of
   interest.
  With all best wishes,
  Zak Ozmo
  [2][3][4]www.zakozmo.com
  [3][4][5]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk
  --
   References
  1. [5][6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
  2. [6][7]http://www.zakozmo.com/
  3. [7][8]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [8][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
 References
 1. mailto:[10]z_o...@hotmail.com
 2. [11]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
 3. [12]http://www.zakozmo.com/
 4. [13]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
 5. [14]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
 6. [15]http://www.zakozmo.com/
 7. [16]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
 8. [17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:z_o...@hotmail.com
   3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
   4. http://www.zakozmo.com/
   5. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
   6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
   7. http://www.zakozmo.com/
   8. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
   9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  10. mailto:z_o...@hotmail.com
  11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
  12. http://www.zakozmo.com/
  13. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
  14. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
  15. http://www.zakozmo.com/
  16. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
  17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Roman Turovsky]

   uffa
   Reminds me of an old armenian joke, about a guy who was selling a weird
   purple horse. Asked how come it is that way, he said: "It is mine, and
   I paint it whatever color I want." You may tune your axe whichever way
   pleases you, if the end-result justifies it.
   I'm certain Gorzanis and Galilei found ET to be as beautiful as I do.
   RT

   On 1/31/2016 12:25 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:

   that is not relevant to the issue of calling a recording of Galelei
   lute pieces "well tempered" when its not.

   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Roman Turovsky
   <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:

   Werckmeister switched to EqualT toward the end of his life.
   RT
   On 1/31/2016 12:16 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:

   [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament

   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky
   <[3]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Early history
One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament occurs in
 the
writing of [1]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.
[2]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [3]Galileo Galilei) was one of the
 first
practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He composed
 a set
of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale in
 all
the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584
 "[4]Fronimo",
24 + 1 [5]ricercars.^[6][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for fretting
 the
lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure
 octaves).^[7][23]
Galilei's countryman and fellow [8]lutenist [9]Giacomo Gorzanis
 had
written music based on equal temperament by
 1567.^[10][24]^[11][25]
Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or keys:
[12]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare de tutti li Toni"
([13]Ricercar in all the Tones) as early as 1507.^[14][26] In the
 17th
century lutenist-composer [15]John Wilson wrote a set of 30
 preludes
including 24 in all the major/minor keys.^[16][27]^[17][28]
[18]Henricus Grammateus drew a close approximation to equal
 temperament
in 1518. The first tuning rules in equal temperament were given
 by
[19]Giovani Maria Lanfranco in his "Scintille de
 musica".^[20][29]
[21]Zarlino in his [22]polemic with Galilei initially opposed
 equal
temperament but eventually conceded to it in relation to the
 [23]lute
in his Sopplimenti musicali in 1588.
RT
On 1/31/2016 12:04 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
"something like" equal temperament. If you look at fret placing
instructions in Bermudo, etc, there is nothing that gives exact
 equal
temperament. There is also the use of tastini to take into
 account. But
yes, the convergence on equal temperament that became universal a
 few
hundred years later was probably spearheaded by the fretted
 instruments
(including viols). In any case, a "well temperament" is not equal
temperament.
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Roman Turovsky
<[24][4]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
  Lute was an early vehicle of EQUAL temperament. and that is the
  scholarly consensus.
  RT
On 1/30/2016 8:53 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
  HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you
 know,
  there
  were various methods of placing the frets back then, none
 of
  which were
  exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it
 "the
  well
  tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used
 in
  his
  keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either.
  On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo
  <[1][25][5]z_o...@hotmail.com>
  wrote:
   Dear friends and colleagues,
   I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my
 new
  solo lute
CD on
   Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered
 Lute:
   [1][2][26][6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
   This is the first volume of the fascinating
 well-tempered
  lute
section
   of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584),
 covering
  dances
in
   major and minor tonality on the first four steps of
 the
  chromatic
   scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before
 J.S.
  Bachs
The
   Well Tempered Clavier!   I hope the recording will be
 of
interest.
   With 

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Stephan Olbertz]

Not to forget Bach's own tuning:
http://www.larips.com

Regards
Stephan

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag
von Christopher Wilke
Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Januar 2016 20:58
An: Dante Rosati; Roman Turovsky
Cc: Lute Net
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

   "Well-tempered" is a non-specific term. It's been applied to tuning
   systems proposed by a number of theorists including Werckmeister,
   Neidhardt, Kirnbertger, Valotti, etc. There is no scholarly consensus
   about which one of these - if any - Bach may have intended in "Das
   Wohltemperierte Klavier." Galilei obviously didn't use any of those.

   "Well-tempered," then, is a general term that apparently means "tuned
   well" in this context in reference to the composer's interest in
   practical tuning. I don't think Zak is trying to mislead anyone and
   there's really no need for him to justify the album title.

   Chris
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   On Sunday, January 31, 2016, 1:42 PM, Dante Rosati
   <danteros...@gmail.com> wrote:

 i dont see anyone arguing against ET. the point is simple: the CD is
 called "the well tempered lute" (an obvious reference to the "well
 tempered clavier"), but, unlike Bach's cycle, which was actually
   meant
 to be played in a "well temperament" (which is not equal
   temperament),
 the Galelei pieces are meant to be played in equal temperament, and
 according to Zak, that is indeed how his lute is tuned. Its more an
 issue of false advertisement. Thats why, when I saw his original
   post,
 I was like "oh, that sounds interesting: a lute somehow fretting in a
 well-temperament! let me ask how he does it."
 [cleardot.gif]
 On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Roman Turovsky
 <[1][2]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
   uffa
   Reminds me of an old armenian joke, about a guy who was selling
   a
   weird
   purple horse. Asked how come it is that way, he said: "It is
   mine, and
   I paint it whatever color I want." You may tune your axe
   whichever way
   pleases you, if the end-result justifies it.
   I'm certain Gorzanis and Galilei found ET to be as beautiful as
   I
   do.
   RT
   On 1/31/2016 12:25 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
   that is not relevant to the issue of calling a recording of
   Galelei
   lute pieces "well tempered" when its not.
   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Roman Turovsky
   <[1][2][3]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
   Werckmeister switched to EqualT toward the end of his life.
   RT
   On 1/31/2016 12:16 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
   [2][3][4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament
   On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky
 <[3][4][5]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
   Early history
 One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament occurs
   in
   the
 writing of [1]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.
 [2]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [3]Galileo Galilei) was one of
 the
   first
 practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He
 composed
   a set
 of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic
   scale
 in
   all
 the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584
   "[4]Fronimo",
 24 + 1 [5]ricercars.^[6][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for
 fretting
   the
 lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure
   octaves).^[7][23]
 Galilei's countryman and fellow [8]lutenist [9]Giacomo
   Gorzanis
   had
 written music based on equal temperament by
   1567.^[10][24]^[11][25]
 Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or
 keys:
 [12]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare de tutti li Toni"
 ([13]Ricercar in all the Tones) as early as 1507.^[14][26] In
 the
   17th
 century lutenist-composer [15]John Wilson wrote a set of 30
   preludes
 including 24 in all the major/minor keys.^[16][27]^[17][28]
 [18]Henricus Grammateus drew a close approximation to equal
   temperament
 in 1518. The first tuning rules in equal temperament were
   given
   by
 [19]Giovani Maria Lanfranco in his "Scintille de
   musica".^[20][29]
 [21]Zarlino in his [22]polemic with Galilei initially opposed
   equal
 temperament but eventually conceded to it in relation to the
   [23]lute
 

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Dante Rosati]

   HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you know, there
   were various methods of placing the frets back then, none of which were
   exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it "the well
   tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used in his
   keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either.

   On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo <[1]z_o...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

Dear friends and colleagues,
I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my new solo lute
 CD on
Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered Lute:
[1][2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
This is the first volume of the fascinating well-tempered lute
 section
of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584), covering dances
 in
major and minor tonality on the first four steps of the chromatic
scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before J.S. Bachs
 The
Well Tempered Clavier!   I hope the recording will be of
 interest.
With all best wishes,
Zak Ozmo
[2][3]www.zakozmo.com
[3][4]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk
--
 References
1. [5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
2. [6]http://www.zakozmo.com/
3. [7]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:z_o...@hotmail.com
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
   3. http://www.zakozmo.com/
   4. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
   5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
   6. http://www.zakozmo.com/
   7. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works

[A. J. Ness]

   A bit more, Benny.  The edition cited by Stephen contains gagliarde
   from an important Galilei dance source, an immense manuscript compiled
   by him perhaps in anticipation of additional printed tablatures.  It
   contains clean copies of 275 pieces!  Libro d'Intauolatura di liuto  .
   . . composte in diuersi tempi da Vincentio Galilei scritto l'anno 1584,
   Ms. Fondo anteriori di Galileo 6, in the Biblioteca nationale centrale
   in Florence.



   There is a facsimile edition, edited by Orlando Christoforetti
   (Florence: S.P.E.S, 1991). The gagliarde published by Giulia Perni come
   from part three of the manuscript and have descriptive titles, e.g.,
   Polymnia (the muse of sacred music--used in Respighi's Ancient Airs and
   Dances), Amarilli, Clio, Calliope, etc.  There is a second section of
   gagliarde by Autori diversi,  but no composer attributions are given;
   many of the pieces are by Santino Garsi da Parma, however. Otherwise
   the manuscript contains passamezzos, romanescas, and saltarellos, most
   with many virtuoso varied reprises.



   AJN

   - Original Message -
   From: [1]be...@interlog.com
   To: LuteNet list [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:19 PM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works

Thanks, folks! BCS
   
Quoting Stephen Arndt [3]stephenar...@earthlink.net:
   
I found this in our local music library a few years ago and rather
   liked it:
   
Le gagliarde dal Libro d'intavolatura di liuto (Gal; 6): edizione
critica con intavolature per liuto e con trascrizione in notazione
moderna
Responsibility
Vincenzo Galilei; a cura di Giulia Perni
Publication Info
Publication Information: Pisa: Edizioni ETS, (c)2000
   
   
   
-Original Message- From: [4]be...@interlog.com
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:41 AM
To: LuteNet list
Subject: [LUTE] Galilei lute works
   
Hi, folks - a couple questions about Galilei lute works:
   
Is the Primo Libro D'intavolatura di Liuto  the only collection of
   his
stuff, or did he write more?
   
I've got the Edizioni Suvini Zerboni of this book - found it in the
Toronto library. Would anyone know how where I might go to find my
   own
copy? Thank - hope everyone is enjoying the summer - BCS
   
   
   
To get on or off this list see list information at
[5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   
   
   
--

References

   1. mailto:be...@interlog.com
   2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:stephenar...@earthlink.net
   4. mailto:be...@interlog.com
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works

[Sean Smith]

This is an amazing source. V. Galilei could apparently write a  
galliard or variation as easily as we could fill in a daily crossword  
puzzle. I think I counted 200 variations on the Romanesca in every  
conceivable key (or for every size lute all in the same key) and the  
galliards are wonderful. Vincenzo writes in a clearly legible hand (i- 
tab, of course) although there is some unfortunate water damage making  
some passages difficult though not impossible. It also includes an  
informative introduction by Orlando Cristoforetti in Italian and  
English. Being a SPES edition it's relatively inexpensive.


Sean


On Aug 6, 2011, at 7:25 AM, A. J. Ness wrote:

  A bit more, Benny.  The edition cited by Stephen contains gagliarde
  from an important Galilei dance source, an immense manuscript  
compiled

  by him perhaps in anticipation of additional printed tablatures.  It
  contains clean copies of 275 pieces!  Libro d'Intauolatura di  
liuto  .
  . . composte in diuersi tempi da Vincentio Galilei scritto l'anno  
1584,
  Ms. Fondo anteriori di Galileo 6, in the Biblioteca nationale  
centrale

  in Florence.



  There is a facsimile edition, edited by Orlando Christoforetti
  (Florence: S.P.E.S, 1991). The gagliarde published by Giulia Perni  
come

  from part three of the manuscript and have descriptive titles, e.g.,
  Polymnia (the muse of sacred music--used in Respighi's Ancient Airs  
and

  Dances), Amarilli, Clio, Calliope, etc.  There is a second section of
  gagliarde by Autori diversi,  but no composer attributions are  
given;

  many of the pieces are by Santino Garsi da Parma, however. Otherwise
  the manuscript contains passamezzos, romanescas, and saltarellos,  
most

  with many virtuoso varied reprises.



  AJN

  - Original Message -
  From: [1]be...@interlog.com
  To: LuteNet list [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:19 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works


Thanks, folks! BCS

Quoting Stephen Arndt [3]stephenar...@earthlink.net:


I found this in our local music library a few years ago and rather

  liked it:


Le gagliarde dal Libro d'intavolatura di liuto (Gal; 6): edizione
critica con intavolature per liuto e con trascrizione in notazione
moderna
Responsibility
Vincenzo Galilei; a cura di Giulia Perni
Publication Info
Publication Information: Pisa: Edizioni ETS, (c)2000



-Original Message- From: [4]be...@interlog.com
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:41 AM
To: LuteNet list
Subject: [LUTE] Galilei lute works

Hi, folks - a couple questions about Galilei lute works:

Is the Primo Libro D'intavolatura di Liuto  the only collection of

  his

stuff, or did he write more?

I've got the Edizioni Suvini Zerboni of this book - found it in the
Toronto library. Would anyone know how where I might go to find my

  own

copy? Thank - hope everyone is enjoying the summer - BCS



To get on or off this list see list information at
[5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html




--


References

  1. mailto:be...@interlog.com
  2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  3. mailto:stephenar...@earthlink.net
  4. mailto:be...@interlog.com
  5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works

[A. J. Ness]

Somewhere Galilei boasts that he had written 1000 (2000?) passamezzi.g 
Those gagliardas contain some of the best of his original music.  The one 
Respighi uses as the first movement in his Antique Dances is the Polymnia 
Gagliarda from the anteriori Galilei 6 manuscript.  He casts it into an ABA 
form, the middle section being called Italiana in the original source. 
(It's a bagpipe piece.)  But it is not by Galilei, but comes from an 
unrelated manuscript copied by a Nurnberg merchant (now know as the the 
Chilesotti Codice Lauten-Buch).  Alas it is often attributed falsely to 
Galilei, especially in guitar books


AJN
- Original Message - 
From: Sean Smith lutesm...@mac.com

To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 11:52 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works




This is an amazing source. V. Galilei could apparently write a  galliard 
or variation as easily as we could fill in a daily crossword  puzzle. I 
think I counted 200 variations on the Romanesca in every  conceivable key 
(or for every size lute all in the same key) and the  galliards are 
wonderful. Vincenzo writes in a clearly legible hand (i- tab, of course) 
although there is some unfortunate water damage making  some passages 
difficult though not impossible. It also includes an  informative 
introduction by Orlando Cristoforetti in Italian and  English. Being a 
SPES edition it's relatively inexpensive.


Sean


On Aug 6, 2011, at 7:25 AM, A. J. Ness wrote:

  A bit more, Benny.  The edition cited by Stephen contains gagliarde
  from an important Galilei dance source, an immense manuscript  compiled
  by him perhaps in anticipation of additional printed tablatures.  It
  contains clean copies of 275 pieces!  Libro d'Intauolatura di  liuto  .
  . . composte in diuersi tempi da Vincentio Galilei scritto l'anno  1584,
  Ms. Fondo anteriori di Galileo 6, in the Biblioteca nationale  centrale
  in Florence.



  There is a facsimile edition, edited by Orlando Christoforetti
  (Florence: S.P.E.S, 1991). The gagliarde published by Giulia Perni  come
  from part three of the manuscript and have descriptive titles, e.g.,
  Polymnia (the muse of sacred music--used in Respighi's Ancient Airs  and
  Dances), Amarilli, Clio, Calliope, etc.  There is a second section of
  gagliarde by Autori diversi,  but no composer attributions are  given;
  many of the pieces are by Santino Garsi da Parma, however. Otherwise
  the manuscript contains passamezzos, romanescas, and saltarellos,  most
  with many virtuoso varied reprises.



  AJN

  - Original Message -
  From: [1]be...@interlog.com
  To: LuteNet list [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:19 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works


Thanks, folks! BCS

Quoting Stephen Arndt [3]stephenar...@earthlink.net:


I found this in our local music library a few years ago and rather

  liked it:


Le gagliarde dal Libro d'intavolatura di liuto (Gal; 6): edizione
critica con intavolature per liuto e con trascrizione in notazione
moderna
Responsibility
Vincenzo Galilei; a cura di Giulia Perni
Publication Info
Publication Information: Pisa: Edizioni ETS, (c)2000



-Original Message- From: [4]be...@interlog.com
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:41 AM
To: LuteNet list
Subject: [LUTE] Galilei lute works

Hi, folks - a couple questions about Galilei lute works:

Is the Primo Libro D'intavolatura di Liuto  the only collection of

  his

stuff, or did he write more?

I've got the Edizioni Suvini Zerboni of this book - found it in the
Toronto library. Would anyone know how where I might go to find my

  own

copy? Thank - hope everyone is enjoying the summer - BCS



To get on or off this list see list information at
[5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html




--


References

  1. mailto:be...@interlog.com
  2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  3. mailto:stephenar...@earthlink.net
  4. mailto:be...@interlog.com
  5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Galilei lute works

[benny]

Hi, folks - a couple questions about Galilei lute works:

Is the Primo Libro D'intavolatura di Liuto  the only collection of his  
stuff, or did he write more?


I've got the Edizioni Suvini Zerboni of this book - found it in the  
Toronto library. Would anyone know how where I might go to find my own  
copy? Thank - hope everyone is enjoying the summer - BCS




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works

[Bernd Haegemann]

Hi Benny,


Hi, folks - a couple questions about Galilei lute works:

Is the Primo Libro D'intavolatura di Liuto  the only collection of his  
stuff, or did he write more?


I think almost everything we know is in there. One would have to look up the
collections of Fuhrmann, Mertel, Besard and Mylius.
Great guy, he wrote about the music on saturn, I believe ;))

ThePrime libro facsimile you can order at

www.tree-edition.com

regards
Bernd





I've got the Edizioni Suvini Zerboni of this book - found it in the  
Toronto library. Would anyone know how where I might go to find my own  
copy? Thank - hope everyone is enjoying the summer - BCS




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works

[Sauvage Valéry]

 
What about the Fronimo Dialogo :
Fac simile here :

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k582176


Val


-Message d'origine-
De : lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la part
de be...@interlog.com
Envoyé : vendredi 5 août 2011 18:41
À : LuteNet list
Objet : [LUTE] Galilei lute works

Hi, folks - a couple questions about Galilei lute works:

Is the Primo Libro D'intavolatura di Liuto  the only collection of his
stuff, or did he write more?

I've got the Edizioni Suvini Zerboni of this book - found it in the Toronto
library. Would anyone know how where I might go to find my own copy? Thank -
hope everyone is enjoying the summer - BCS



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works

[Mathias Rösel]

 What about the Fronimo Dialogo :
 Fac simile here :
 
 http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k582176

That's Michelangelo's father.


Mathias


 -Message d'origine-
 De : lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la
part
 de be...@interlog.com Envoyé : vendredi 5 août 2011 18:41 À : LuteNet list
 Objet : [LUTE] Galilei lute works
 
 Hi, folks - a couple questions about Galilei lute works:
 
 Is the Primo Libro D'intavolatura di Liuto  the only collection of his
stuff, or did
 he write more?
 
 I've got the Edizioni Suvini Zerboni of this book - found it in the
Toronto library.
 Would anyone know how where I might go to find my own copy? Thank - hope
 everyone is enjoying the summer - BCS
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 

[LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works

[Stephen Arndt]

I found this in our local music library a few years ago and rather liked it:

Le gagliarde dal Libro d'intavolatura di liuto (Gal; 6): edizione critica 
con intavolature per liuto e con trascrizione in notazione moderna

Responsibility
Vincenzo Galilei; a cura di Giulia Perni
Publication Info
Publication Information: Pisa: Edizioni ETS, ©2000



-Original Message- 
From: be...@interlog.com

Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:41 AM
To: LuteNet list
Subject: [LUTE] Galilei lute works

Hi, folks - a couple questions about Galilei lute works:

Is the Primo Libro D'intavolatura di Liuto  the only collection of his
stuff, or did he write more?

I've got the Edizioni Suvini Zerboni of this book - found it in the
Toronto library. Would anyone know how where I might go to find my own
copy? Thank - hope everyone is enjoying the summer - BCS



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 

[LUTE] Re: Galilei lute works

[benny]

Thanks, folks! BCS

Quoting Stephen Arndt stephenar...@earthlink.net:


I found this in our local music library a few years ago and rather liked it:

Le gagliarde dal Libro d'intavolatura di liuto (Gal; 6): edizione  
critica con intavolature per liuto e con trascrizione in notazione  
moderna

Responsibility
Vincenzo Galilei; a cura di Giulia Perni
Publication Info
Publication Information: Pisa: Edizioni ETS, ©2000



-Original Message- From: be...@interlog.com
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:41 AM
To: LuteNet list
Subject: [LUTE] Galilei lute works

Hi, folks - a couple questions about Galilei lute works:

Is the Primo Libro D'intavolatura di Liuto  the only collection of his
stuff, or did he write more?

I've got the Edizioni Suvini Zerboni of this book - found it in the
Toronto library. Would anyone know how where I might go to find my own
copy? Thank - hope everyone is enjoying the summer - BCS



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Saturday quote: Vincenzo Galilei

[Ron Andrico]

   We have posted our Saturday quote, this week from Vincenzo Galilei.
   [1]http://mignarda.wordpress.com
   Ron  Donna

   --

References

   1. http://mignarda.wordpress.com/


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[LUTE] Galilei Fuga a l'unisono

[Sam Chapman]

   Dear Lutenists,
   Has anyone successfully performed Galilei's Fuga a l'unisono from Il
   Fronimo? The piece starts well, but if you play the canon as written
   you end up with some pretty bizarre harmonies towards the middle/end of
   the piece. If anyone has worked out where the errors are or come up
   with a version that works, please let me know!
   Thanks,
   Sam
   --
   Sam Chapman
   Oetlingerstrasse 65
   4057 Basel
   (0041) 79 530 39 91
   --


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[LUTE] Re: Galilei Fuga a l'unisono

[G. Crona]

Sam,

you'll find the correct version, courtesy of Douglas Alton Smith esq. here:

http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/associated/Galilei/037bFuga.pdf

also with midi files

Best Wishes

G.


- Original Message - 
From: Sam Chapman manchap...@gmail.com

To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 1:52 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Galilei Fuga a l'unisono



  Dear Lutenists,
  Has anyone successfully performed Galilei's Fuga a l'unisono from Il
  Fronimo? The piece starts well, but if you play the canon as written
  you end up with some pretty bizarre harmonies towards the middle/end of
  the piece. If anyone has worked out where the errors are or come up
  with a version that works, please let me know!
  Thanks,
  Sam
  --
  Sam Chapman
  Oetlingerstrasse 65
  4057 Basel
  (0041) 79 530 39 91 




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[LUTE] Re: Molinaro, Galilei

[Bernd Haegemann]

[M. Galilei]

He was an Italian, playing French style in Germany! Much style brise,  
as they say.


Shouldn't that be Italian style in Poland?

B.



Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/




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Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1792 - Release Date: 16.11.2008 10:04

[LUTE] Re: Molinaro, Galilei

Dear Bernd, dear all,


why should that be so? Galilei published his book years after he came to
Munich. His years in the service of a nobleman in Poland where than a
thing of the past and his music is really very french in style. There is
certainly some (if not much) Italian style in the threepartite Toccate
which opens the book but to me many of the pieces might have come from a
compatriot of Ballard ... It's certainly possible that I am not as
familiar with Galilei's music as I think I am (having played through
some of the suites but not all and having really come to grips with only
a few pieces at all) but this is my impression.


All best,


Joachim



  Bernd Haegemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
 [M. Galilei]
[snip] an Italian, playing French style in Germany! Much style brise,  
  as they say.
 
 Shouldn't that be Italian style in Poland?
 
 B.
 
  
  Ed Durbrow
  Saitama, Japan
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
  
  
  
  
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
 Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
 Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1792 - Release Date: 16.11.2008 
 10:04
 
 
 
 


-- 
Joachim Lüdtke, Lektorat  Korrektorat
Dr. Joachim Lüdtke
Blumenstraße 20
D - 90762 Fürth
Tel. +49-+911 / 976 45 20

[LUTE] Re: Molinaro, Galilei

[Bernd Haegemann]

Shouldn't that be Italian style in Poland?





why should that be so? Galilei published his book years after he came to
Munich. His years in the service of a nobleman in Poland where than a
thing of the past and his music is really very french in style. There is



.I sort of wanted to add the other half of the story :-)

I have no real insight into the style question. To me M.G. 's style
seemed rather individual. And how much the BallardCo. owe to
Italy I cannot estimate, but I think at that time they were much closer
or dependant than a little bit later on the 11c. and with the accords nouveaux..

best wishes
B.



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[LUTE] Re: Molinaro, Galilei

Dear Bernd,

suspect you're right concerning cross-influences in italian and french
repertoire. I did not find the time yet but it may be interesting to
compare what happened to the Air Je treuve sur le herbe assize (or so
- don't have it before my eyes now) when it came into an italian
musician's hands and was forged into a Volta Francese.

All best,

Joachim

Bernd Haegemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
 
 
  Shouldn't that be Italian style in Poland?
 
  
  
  why should that be so? Galilei published his book years after he came to
  Munich. His years in the service of a nobleman in Poland where than a
  thing of the past and his music is really very french in style. There is
 
 
 ..I sort of wanted to add the other half of the story :-)
 
 I have no real insight into the style question. To me M.G. 's style
 seemed rather individual. And how much the BallardCo. owe to
 Italy I cannot estimate, but I think at that time they were much closer
 or dependant than a little bit later on the 11c. and with the accords 
 nouveaux..
 
 best wishes
 B.
 
 


-- 
Joachim Lüdtke, Lektorat  Korrektorat
Dr. Joachim Lüdtke
Blumenstraße 20
D - 90762 Fürth
Tel. +49-+911 / 976 45 20



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[LUTE] Re: Molinaro, Galilei

[Ed Durbrow]

On Nov 15, 2008, at 9:37 AM, andrei and wrote:


Now I'm curious to know how was his style of
   composition.



He was an Italian, playing French style in Germany! Much style brise,  
as they say.


Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/




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[LUTE] Re: Molinaro, Galilei

[David van Ooijen]

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:41 AM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 H M
 Brown, _Instrumental Music printed before 1600_.  Maybe no longer in print

Available in photoreprint from www.iUniverse.com (1999).

Buy now, before this edition, too, will be out of print.

David


-- 
***
David van Ooijen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.davidvanooijen.nl
***



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[LUTE] Re: Molinaro, Galilei

[vance wood]

I cannot tell you how many books but if you are interested in obtaining some 
of the music you might want to visit here. 
http://www.lute.ru/mirrors/gerbode/ft2/composers/index.php?path=Galilei/
- Original Message - 
From: andrei and [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 3:52 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Molinaro, Galilei



  Hi to everyone,
  Does someone knows how many books did Simone Molinaro and Vincenzo
  Galilei publish? And when were they publihed?
  And also, where can I find these books to download? If there ain't no
  source to download can someone please, send me a link where I can buy
  these books on the internet?
  Thank you and,
  Greetings to all
  Andrei Vanazzi
__

  Instale a Barra de Ferramentas com Desktop Search e ganhe EMOTICONS
  para o Messenger! [1]E GRATIS! --

References

  1. http://www.msn.com.br/emoticonpack


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No virus found in this incoming message.
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8:32 AM

[LUTE] Re: Molinaro, Galilei

[wikla]

On 11/14/2008, G. Crona [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://gallica.bnf.fr/scripts/ConsultationTout.exe?E=0O=N058217
 
 There was a way to download the whole in one go in PDF, don't remember 
 how  to do it, perhaps somebody else will know? Arto?

Yes, I knew it, but definitely I have forgotten... I just suggest going
to those pages - and if memory serves - you'll find the way to do the
trick... ;-)

 Arto

PS I recommend the music of Vincenco's lesser known son (compared to
Galileo), Michelangelo Galilei, to lutenists. Very clever music! And
just wait a while; you'll get also THAT in the tubes in a while...
;-)



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[LUTE] Re: Molinaro, Galilei

[Anthony Hind]

Le 14 nov. 08 à 22:14, G. Crona a écrit :




and the facsimile here:

http://gallica.bnf.fr/scripts/ConsultationTout.exe?E=0O=N058217

There was a way to download the whole in one go in PDF, don't  
remember how to do it, perhaps somebody else will know? Arto?


http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k582176.capture

Just use the link above, and click on telecharge, you will get  
thechoice of PDF or TIFF.

Anyway, It just worked for me.
Anthony


G.


- Original Message - From: andrei and  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:52 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Molinaro, Galilei



  Hi to everyone,
  Does someone knows how many books did Simone Molinaro and Vincenzo
  Galilei publish? And when were they publihed?
  And also, where can I find these books to download? If there  
ain't no
  source to download can someone please, send me a link where I  
can buy

  these books on the internet?
  Thank you and,
  Greetings to all
  Andrei Vanazzi




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[LUTE] Re: Molinaro, Galilei

[demery]

   Does someone knows how many books did Simone Molinaro and Vincenzo
   Galilei publish? And when were they publihed?

google gives me these dates - Molinaro, Simone ( C1565-1615) Galilei,
Vincenzo (C1527-1591).

Look for articles 'Molinaro, Simone' and 'Galilei, Vincenzo' in Groves New
Dictionary of music and Musicians (26vv) and also see the indexes in H M
Brown, _Instrumental Music printed before 1600_.  Maybe no longer in print
(a shame, but that the way things go these days);  Google is your freind
here, used copies showed in a recent search witht he title as keywords.  A
standard reference useful to lutenists intrested in renaissance music. 
Should be on the reference shelf of any music library.
-- 
Dana Emery




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[LUTE] Molinaro, Galilei

[andrei and]

   Thank you so much!
   I was able to get some good material. I've downloaded Contrapunti
   1584 and Il Fronimo 1584 besides other pieces.
   Is the Libro 1563 available to download It too or buy It? The
   Molinaro edition from SPES seems really nice too, I'll see if I'll buy
   It. Also thank you for the sources where I can read more about It.
   Thanks for the suggestion Arto. I don't know much about Michelangelo
   Galilei. I just know he's the younger brother of Galileo Galilei and he
   worked on Germany and Poland. I've made a quick research on the net and
   the better source I could find at the moment was the wikipedia but
   didn't help me much, but I was able to get to know about his book ; Il
   primo libro d'intavolatura di liuto (1620). Still, I'm gonna look for
   more info about him. Now I'm curious to know how was his style of
   composition.
   I've never heard anything from him too. If you have any suggestions of
   recordings are really welcome. If you happen to know a site where I can
   find more info about him please tell me, also, a website where I can
   get his sheets too.
   Best wishes!
   Andrei Vanazzi
 __

   Instale a Barra de Ferramentas com Desktop Search e ganhe EMOTICONS
   para o Messenger! [1]E GRATIS! --

References

   1. http://www.msn.com.br/emoticonpack


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[LUTE] Re: Michelangelo Galilei

[Roland Hayes]

 Are there concordances anywhere for his pieces from his book I of 1620?
They just don't seem to turn up in the Ballard/Cherbury/Louis de Moy
etc. group.  R. 

-Original Message-
From: Roman Turovsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 2:35 PM
To: Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] MS 4022

Would anyone in the Collective Wisdom
have Berlin Danzig MS 4022 Balletto Rutteno in any electronic form?
RT



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[LUTE] Re: Michelangelo Galilei

[Ron Andrico]

   Roland:

   One Michelangelo Galilei concordance that I am aware of is Prelude 21
   (and also printed as Fantasia 1) from Elias Mertel's _Hortus musicalis
   novus_, 1615, which predates the Toccata found on p. 38 in Galilei's
   publication of _Il primo libro_, 1620.  I seem to remember a few
   correntes and/or volta of his turning up in Mylius as well.

   Best,

   Ron Andrico

   [1]www.mignarda.com



Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:38:39 -0400
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Michelangelo Galilei
   
Are there concordances anywhere for his pieces from his book I of
   1620?
They just don't seem to turn up in the Ballard/Cherbury/Louis de Moy
etc. group. R.
   
-Original Message-
From: Roman Turovsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 2:35 PM
To: Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] MS 4022
   
Would anyone in the Collective Wisdom
have Berlin Danzig MS 4022 Balletto Rutteno in any electronic form?
RT
   
   
   
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   
   
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References

   1. http://www.mignarda.com/
   2. 
http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Photo_Gallery_082008

[LUTE] Re: Michelangelo Galilei

[Ken Brodkey]

The introduction (by Claude Chauvel) in the Minkoff facsimile of Galilei's
book one has a list of concordances.

Ken

-Original Message-
From: Roland Hayes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:39 PM
To: Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Michelangelo Galilei


 Are there concordances anywhere for his pieces from his book I of 1620?
They just don't seem to turn up in the Ballard/Cherbury/Louis de Moy
etc. group.  R.

-Original Message-
From: Roman Turovsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 2:35 PM
To: Lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] MS 4022

Would anyone in the Collective Wisdom
have Berlin Danzig MS 4022 Balletto Rutteno in any electronic form?
RT



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7:07 AM

[LUTE] Vincenzo Galilei

[Stewart McCoy]

Dear Jim,

Yes, it's a hold sign. Similar signs occur in many other printed and
manuscript sources of lute music. They simply help you identify
which notes need holding to preserve melodic lines in a polyphonic
texture. They compensate for the fact that tablature rhythm signs do
not tell you how long a note should last. They can be quite useful:
sometimes they help you to spot a polyphonic line which might
otherwise have gone unnoticed; sometimes they have implications for
left-hand fingering. For example, on the second system of page 172,
there is a hold sign (at the position marked C) effectively telling
you not to use a barré at the third fret:

 |\|\|\|\   |\
 |\|\|\|\   |\
 |\| |\|\   |
 | | | |\   |
-|-3--|-3-
-||---
5|---0|-0-
-5-3-|-5-3|---
-|-3--|-0-
-7--3--5--7--|3--+--2--3--2--0--2-|-3-
   A  B  C  D

[The musical example should be read with a mono-spaced font like
Courier.]

If you were to use a barré for the chord at the beginning of the
second bar (A), you would be hard pressed to hold the 3 on the first
course immediately afterwards (B) to create a 4-3 suspension (C-D).
Instead, you would do better to hold the 3s at A and B with your
second finger. If you have thinnish fingertips, you may find it
easier for your second finger to hop from one 3 to the other (A-B);
if you have fattish fingertips, you may prefer to hold both 3s with
the second finger at the same time. The main thing is to allow the 3
at B to ring on through C.

Best wishes,

Stewart McCoy.








- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 4:09 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Vincenzo Galilei


 Dear All:
  In looking at the manuscript of Vincenzo Galilei's Intavolatura
of 1584,
 which features about 50 galliards, including nine on the names of
the muses, he
 has a mark that looks like a plus sign (+). My guess from the
context is that
 means to hold the previous note. Is that correct?
 Thanks,
 Jim




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[LUTE] Vincenzo Galilei

[jslute]

Dear All:
 In looking at the manuscript of Vincenzo Galilei's Intavolatura of 1584, 
which features about 50 galliards, including nine on the names of the muses, he 
has a mark that looks like a plus sign (+). My guess from the context is that 
means to hold the previous note. Is that correct?
Thanks,
Jim



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[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei

[vance wood]

Sometimes an + means an ornament like a hammer and pull off or small trill.

Vance Wood.
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 11:09 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Vincenzo Galilei


 Dear All:
 In looking at the manuscript of Vincenzo Galilei's Intavolatura of 1584,
 which features about 50 galliards, including nine on the names of the 
 muses, he
 has a mark that looks like a plus sign (+). My guess from the context is 
 that
 means to hold the previous note. Is that correct?
 Thanks,
 Jim



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



 -- 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.0/763 - Release Date: 4/16/2007 
 5:53 PM

 

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei

[Sean Smith]

 
  Dear Jim,
   
  I don't have the book w/ me at work but I think they are hold signs. Usually 
they are placed in the first strain and you're expected to remember them on the 
(usually nearly identical) second strain. I think they show up in the places 
one would expect a note to be held.
   
  I'll give it another peek when I get home just to be sure.
   
  A lovely collection of galliards, isn't it?
   
  all the best,
   
  Sean 
  

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Dear All:
In looking at the manuscript of Vincenzo Galilei's Intavolatura of 1584, 
which features about 50 galliards, including nine on the names of the muses, he 
has a mark that looks like a plus sign (+). My guess from the context is that 
means to hold the previous note. Is that correct?
Thanks,
Jim



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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei

[Martyn Hodgson]

MS collection compiled by Galilei intitled:
   
  'Libro d'intavolatura di liuto,'  dated 1584 on the flyleaf.
   
  Location: Biblioteca Nazionale Centrale di Firenze: Fondo Anteriori a Galileo 
6.
   
  Modern facsimile edition published with forward (in Italian and English) by 
Orlando 
  Cristoforetti.
   
  Also you may care to look at Santino Garsi's work - very polular at the time 
but strangely (too easy? - not showy?) rather neglected nowadays.  A facsimile 
collection of his entire known solo lute works has been published by, I think, 
Tree Editions.
   
  M.
Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Does anyone know where I can find three or four of Vincenzo Galilei's 
simpler, more tuneful pieces, a la Polimnia, in some easy-to-access 
(perhaps digital downloadable emailable) form. I agreed to play some 
of these and was surprised at how hard they were to find on short 
notice. I already have a facsimile of Fronimo (the book, not the 
program).

Thanks in advance

Howard



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[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei

[Andreas Schlegel]

Could you please give more exact details on the mentioned facsimile  
edition? I can't find them. Isn't it a confusion with the printed  
Fronimo dialogo of 1584 (Vincentino Galilei)?

Andreas

Am 05.02.2007 um 09:18 schrieb Martyn Hodgson:

 MS collection compiled by Galilei intitled:

   'Libro d'intavolatura di liuto,'  dated 1584 on  
 the flyleaf.

   Location: Biblioteca Nazionale Centrale di Firenze: Fondo  
 Anteriori a Galileo 6.

   Modern facsimile edition published with forward (in Italian and  
 English) by Orlando
   Cristoforetti.

   Also you may care to look at Santino Garsi's work - very polular  
 at the time but strangely (too easy? - not showy?) rather neglected  
 nowadays.  A facsimile collection of his entire known solo lute  
 works has been published by, I think, Tree Editions.

   M.
 Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Does anyone know where I can find three or four of Vincenzo  
 Galilei's
 simpler, more tuneful pieces, a la Polimnia, in some easy-to-access
 (perhaps digital downloadable emailable) form. I agreed to play some
 of these and was surprised at how hard they were to find on short
 notice. I already have a facsimile of Fronimo (the book, not the
 program).

 Thanks in advance

 Howard



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


   
 -
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 quick, easy and free. Do it now...
 --

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei

[Bernhard Hofstoetter]

Dear Andreas,

Martyn must be referring to the facsimile of 

V. Galilei, Libro d’intavolatura di liuto nel quale
si contengono i passemezzi, le romanesche, i
saltarelli, et le gagliarde et altre cose ariose, ms.
Gal. 6 (1584) della Biblioteca Nazionale di Firenze

published by SPES in Florence. 

Bernhard

--- Andreas Schlegel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
schrieb:

 Could you please give more exact details on the
 mentioned facsimile  
 edition? I can't find them. Isn't it a confusion
 with the printed  
 Fronimo dialogo of 1584 (Vincentino Galilei)?
 
 Andreas
 
 Am 05.02.2007 um 09:18 schrieb Martyn Hodgson:
 
  MS collection compiled by Galilei intitled:
 
'Libro d'intavolatura di liuto,'
  dated 1584 on  
  the flyleaf.
 
Location: Biblioteca Nazionale Centrale di
 Firenze: Fondo  
  Anteriori a Galileo 6.
 
Modern facsimile edition published with forward
 (in Italian and  
  English) by Orlando
Cristoforetti.
 
Also you may care to look at Santino Garsi's
 work - very polular  
  at the time but strangely (too easy? - not showy?)
 rather neglected  
  nowadays.  A facsimile collection of his entire
 known solo lute  
  works has been published by, I think, Tree
 Editions.
 
M.
  Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does anyone know where I can find three or four
 of Vincenzo  
  Galilei's
  simpler, more tuneful pieces, a la Polimnia, in
 some easy-to-access
  (perhaps digital downloadable emailable) form. I
 agreed to play some
  of these and was surprised at how hard they were
 to find on short
  notice. I already have a facsimile of Fronimo (the
 book, not the
  program).
 
  Thanks in advance
 
  Howard
 
 
 
  To get on or off this list see list information at
 

http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 
  
  -
   Copy addresses and emails from any email account
 to Yahoo! Mail -  
  quick, easy and free. Do it now...
  --
 
 
 




___ 
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[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei

[Howard Posner]

Thanks to everyone for the avalanche of responses to my query.  I now 
have what I need. 
  



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[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei

[Arthur Ness]

Yes, that is the correct volume.  It is a big volume 
fated 1584 (same year as Fronimo) and has a series of 
galliatrds including the Polymnia (godess of sacred 
music). A section of galliards by other composers 
includes some by Garsi. The Garsi edition is edited by 
Dieter Kirsch and published by Gitarre + Laute, Peter 
Pfaffgen's firm.  (Is it out of business now?).  It 
includes facsimiles of all of the pieces and 
transcription (for guitar?).

Donino Garsi may be the composer of the piece Dowland 
used as the basis for My Lady Hunsdon's Puffe.
- Original Message - 
From: Bernhard Hofstoetter 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Andreas Schlegel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:46 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei


 Dear Andreas,

 Martyn must be referring to the facsimile of

 V. Galilei, Libro d’intavolatura di liuto nel quale
 si contengono i passemezzi, le romanesche, i
 saltarelli, et le gagliarde et altre cose ariose, ms.
 Gal. 6 (1584) della Biblioteca Nazionale di Firenze

 published by SPES in Florence.

 Bernhard

 --- Andreas Schlegel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 schrieb:

 Could you please give more exact details on the
 mentioned facsimile
 edition? I can't find them. Isn't it a confusion
 with the printed
 Fronimo dialogo of 1584 (Vincentino Galilei)?

 Andreas

 Am 05.02.2007 um 09:18 schrieb Martyn Hodgson:

  MS collection compiled by Galilei intitled:
 
'Libro d'intavolatura di liuto,'
  dated 1584 on
  the flyleaf.
 
Location: Biblioteca Nazionale Centrale di
 Firenze: Fondo
  Anteriori a Galileo 6.
 
Modern facsimile edition published with forward
 (in Italian and
  English) by Orlando
Cristoforetti.
 
Also you may care to look at Santino Garsi's
 work - very polular
  at the time but strangely (too easy? - not showy?)
 rather neglected
  nowadays.  A facsimile collection of his entire
 known solo lute
  works has been published by, I think, Tree
 Editions.
 
M.
  Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does anyone know where I can find three or four
 of Vincenzo
  Galilei's
  simpler, more tuneful pieces, a la Polimnia, in
 some easy-to-access
  (perhaps digital downloadable emailable) form. I
 agreed to play some
  of these and was surprised at how hard they were
 to find on short
  notice. I already have a facsimile of Fronimo (the
 book, not the
  program).
 
  Thanks in advance
 
  Howard
 
 
 
  To get on or off this list see list information at
 

 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 
 
  -
   Copy addresses and emails from any email account
 to Yahoo! Mail -
  quick, easy and free. Do it now...
  --







 ___
 Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: 
 http://messenger.yahoo.de


 

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei

[Martyn Hodgson]

No it's not the same (Fromino is printed; this is a large MS - prhps 
representing G's attempt to compile a fine version of his complete lute works). 
I see I ommited to mention the facsimile publisher: SPES.
   
  M.

Andreas Schlegel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Could you please give more exact details on the mentioned facsimile 
edition? I can't find them. Isn't it a confusion with the printed 
Fronimo dialogo of 1584 (Vincentino Galilei)?

Andreas

Am 05.02.2007 um 09:18 schrieb Martyn Hodgson:

 MS collection compiled by Galilei intitled:

 'Libro d'intavolatura di liuto,' dated 1584 on 
 the flyleaf.

 Location: Biblioteca Nazionale Centrale di Firenze: Fondo 
 Anteriori a Galileo 6.

 Modern facsimile edition published with forward (in Italian and 
 English) by Orlando
 Cristoforetti.

 Also you may care to look at Santino Garsi's work - very polular 
 at the time but strangely (too easy? - not showy?) rather neglected 
 nowadays. A facsimile collection of his entire known solo lute 
 works has been published by, I think, Tree Editions.

 M.
 Howard Posner wrote:
 Does anyone know where I can find three or four of Vincenzo 
 Galilei's
 simpler, more tuneful pieces, a la Polimnia, in some easy-to-access
 (perhaps digital downloadable emailable) form. I agreed to play some
 of these and was surprised at how hard they were to find on short
 notice. I already have a facsimile of Fronimo (the book, not the
 program).

 Thanks in advance

 Howard



 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


 
 -
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[LUTE] Vincenzo Galilei

[Howard Posner]

Does anyone know where I can find three or four of Vincenzo Galilei's 
simpler, more tuneful pieces, a la Polimnia, in some easy-to-access 
(perhaps digital downloadable emailable) form.  I agreed to play some 
of these and was surprised at how hard they were to find on short 
notice.  I already have a facsimile of Fronimo (the book, not the 
program).

Thanks in advance

Howard



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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Fw: V. Galilei

[Bernd Haegemann]

- Original Message - 
From: Bernd Haegemann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Fossum, Arthur [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] V. Galilei


 Dear all,
 
 
 The link I gave

 http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=GallicaO=NUMM-58217
 
 
 If you click telecharger you can generate a pdf of all the pages.
 
 
 Yes, it creates a .pdf of the whole document, ready for a free download.
 The size of the file will be 14.8 MB.
 
 best wishes
 Bernardo
 
 




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[LUTE] Re: V. Galilei

[G.R. Crona]

Dear List,

Ariel's pledge for the duets of V. Galilei might stem from the
following paper by Dinko Fabris. (So sad he's not on this list!). The
whole text is available on the net, a.o. in Magnatune's Paul Bier
recording of Michelagnolo's 1620 book.

Born in Florence the 18th of December 1575 (as recorded in an
horoscope generated for his brother by the famous scientist), the
education of Michelagnolo was dedicated from the very beginning to his
training as a professional musician. At the age of just nine years, in
fact, he signed the dedication of a volume of instructional
compositions by his father, eloquent as to the type of study he had
already undertaken: ...My father having composed the present two-part
Counterpoints a few days ago, so that with them (after lessons of
greater import that he has given me to study) I could exercise the
voice and the playing of the viola with the help of a solo,

I've asked previously, unsuccessfully, on this list which publication
or ms. Mr. Fabris might be refering to. The only duets (contrapunti) I
know of, are the ones contained in Il Fronimo.

I know that Mr. Abramovich has had this work of mine for ages, so
perhaps he would care to elaborate.

BTW, a facsimile of V. Galilei's other great work: Libro
d'intavolatura di liuto nel quale si contengono i passemezzi, le
romanesche, i saltarelli, et le gagliarde et altre cose ariose. Ms.
Gal 6 (1584) della Biblioteca Nazionale di Firenze. is available for
Euro 49.03 (2000) at SPES.

but no contrapunti there? 

This other work is, as New Grove says so eloquently: 

Favouring the new major and minor keys over the church modes, which
he deplored as a false system, he recognized that equal temperament
was the only solution for instrumental tuning. His lute book of 1584
is one of the first music publications to experiment with equal
temperament. The book is comprised of 24 groups of dances, clearly
related to 12 major and 12 minor keys. His lute was tuned in G and the
first group of dances is in G (major). This was possible because of
the well-tempered tuning of his instrument.

B.R.
G.

On 8/17/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dear list,
 
 
 I'm looking for a digital edition of V. Galilei's lute duets (all of them, if 
 possible), in any format.
 I've got the music in printed versions, but I'll need to edit a couple of 
 things, and if I could avoid transcribing everything from 0 it would be 
 great. I'd really appreciate your help.
 Thanks in advance.
 Saludos from Seville,
 Ariel.
 
 
 
 
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 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: V. Galilei

[G.R. Crona]

PS.

Further research yielded the following from New Grove, so Nr. 3
might just be the one. I'd also love to get my hands on that one. Does
anybody here know of it?

B.R.
G.


WORKS
 
1. Intavolature de lauto, madrigali e ricercate, libro primo (Rome,
156323); 17 ed. in IMi, iv (1934)

2. Il primo libro de madrigali, 4, 5vv (Venice, 1574), inc.

3. Contrapunti, 2vv (Florence, 1584); ed. in SCMA, viii (1945) 

4. Il secondo libro de madrigali, 4, 5vv (Venice, 1587); ed. in IMi,
iv (1934)

5. Libro d'intavolatura di liuto, nel quale si contengono i
passemezzi, le romanesche, i saltarelli, et le gagliarde et altre cose
ariose composte in diversi tempi, 1584, I-Fn; facs. (Florence, 1992),
11 ed. O. Chilesotti, Congresso internazionale di scienze storiche:
Roma 1903, 135–8; some ed. in IMi iv (1934); 16 galliards ed. M.
Fritzen, Vincenzo Galilei, Libro d'Intavolatura (Munich, 1982)

6. Romanescas, passamezzos, arrs. of madrigals and partsongs, 1v,
lute, in copy of Fronimo (1568 edn.), Fn; some ed. in Palisca, 1969

7. Airs, romanescas, galliards, passamezzos, lute, in copy of
Fronimo(1568 edn.), Fr; some ed. in Palisca, 1969



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[LUTE] V. Galilei

[arielabra]

Dear list,


First of all, thanks to all of you for you precious help. 
I’m experiencing all sorts of problems with this email account, so please 
accept my apologies for not having replied earlier.
As soon as this gets fixed I’ll give more details of what I was looking for.
Thanks again.
Regards,
 Ariel.




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[LUTE] Re: V. Galilei

[Arthur Ness]

This seems to refer to the pubished contrapuncti (publ. 1584), and perhaps his 
words are printed in the dedication.  He was born in 1575, so the date fits.  
These are duets in mensural notation.  It would be interesting to see if any 
are identicalwiththe one's attrbuted to B.M. in Fronimo dialogo.  (Also see the 
P.S.)

ajn
  - Original Message - 
  From: G.R. Crona 
  To: Lutelist 
  Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 6:18 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: V. Galilei


  Dear List,

  Ariel's pledge for the duets of V. Galilei might stem from the
  following paper by Dinko Fabris. (So sad he's not on this list!). The
  whole text is available on the net, a.o. in Magnatune's Paul Bier
  recording of Michelagnolo's 1620 book.

  Born in Florence the 18th of December 1575 (as recorded in an
  horoscope generated for his brother by the famous scientist), the
  education of Michelagnolo was dedicated from the very beginning to his
  training as a professional musician. At the age of just nine years, in
  fact, he signed the dedication of a volume of instructional
  compositions by his father, eloquent as to the type of study he had
  already undertaken: ...My father having composed the present two-part
  Counterpoints a few days ago, so that with them (after lessons of
  greater import that he has given me to study) I could exercise the
  voice and the playing of the viola with the help of a solo,

  I've asked previously, unsuccessfully, on this list which publication
  or ms. Mr. Fabris might be refering to. The only duets (contrapunti) I
  know of, are the ones contained in Il Fronimo.

  I know that Mr. Abramovich has had this work of mine for ages, so
  perhaps he would care to elaborate.

  BTW, a facsimile of V. Galilei's other great work: Libro
  d'intavolatura di liuto nel quale si contengono i passemezzi, le
  romanesche, i saltarelli, et le gagliarde et altre cose ariose. Ms.
  Gal 6 (1584) della Biblioteca Nazionale di Firenze. is available for
  Euro 49.03 (2000) at SPES.

  but no contrapunti there? 

  This other work is, as New Grove says so eloquently: 

  Favouring the new major and minor keys over the church modes, which
  he deplored as a false system, he recognized that equal temperament
  was the only solution for instrumental tuning. His lute book of 1584
  is one of the first music publications to experiment with equal
  temperament. The book is comprised of 24 groups of dances, clearly
  related to 12 major and 12 minor keys. His lute was tuned in G and the
  first group of dances is in G (major). This was possible because of
  the well-tempered tuning of his instrument.

  B.R.
  G.

  On 8/17/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Dear list,
   
   
   I'm looking for a digital edition of V. Galilei's lute duets (all of them, 
if possible), in any format.
   I've got the music in printed versions, but I'll need to edit a couple of 
things, and if I could avoid transcribing everything from 0 it would be great. 
I'd really appreciate your help.
   Thanks in advance.
   Saludos from Seville,
   Ariel.
   
   
   
   
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  



--

[LUTE] Re: V. Galilei (P.S.)

[Arthur Ness]

You need to look in the list of Bibliographical Abbreviations at the 
beginning of each volume of New Grove.  SCMA, viii (1945) stands for volume 8 
of the series Smith College Music Archives.  Many well stocked music libraries 
will have that series, especially in the U.S.  But I would expect you could 
findit inNorway. Thereis only one copy surviving of the originalprint from 
1584, and it is in Florence, National Library.
  - Original Message - 
  From: G.R. Crona 
  To: Lutelist 
  Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 7:07 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: V. Galilei


  PS.

  Further research yielded the following from New Grove, so Nr. 3
  might just be the one. I'd also love to get my hands on that one. Does
  anybody here know of it?

  B.R.
  G.


  WORKS
   
  1. Intavolature de lauto, madrigali e ricercate, libro primo (Rome,
  156323); 17 ed. in IMi, iv (1934)

  2. Il primo libro de madrigali, 4, 5vv (Venice, 1574), inc.

  3. Contrapunti, 2vv (Florence, 1584); ed. in SCMA, viii (1945)

  4. Il secondo libro de madrigali, 4, 5vv (Venice, 1587); ed. in IMi,
  iv (1934)

  5. Libro d'intavolatura di liuto, nel quale si contengono i
  passemezzi, le romanesche, i saltarelli, et le gagliarde et altre cose
  ariose composte in diversi tempi, 1584, I-Fn; facs. (Florence, 1992),
  11 ed. O. Chilesotti, Congresso internazionale di scienze storiche:
  Roma 1903, 135-8; some ed. in IMi iv (1934); 16 galliards ed. M.
  Fritzen, Vincenzo Galilei, Libro d'Intavolatura (Munich, 1982)

  6. Romanescas, passamezzos, arrs. of madrigals and partsongs, 1v,
  lute, in copy of Fronimo (1568 edn.), Fn; some ed. in Palisca, 1969

  7. Airs, romanescas, galliards, passamezzos, lute, in copy of
  Fronimo(1568 edn.), Fr; some ed. in Palisca, 1969



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--

[LUTE] Re: V. Galilei

[Arthur Ness]

Bernardo Monzino is Francesco's brother.  Dinko Fabris rejects the possibility 
that he might be B.M. due to chronology. Instead he ingeniously proposes Paolo 
Biemme (BM=Biemme).  He also had Florentine associations, whereas Monzino was 
almost entirely in Rome or Milan. But Biemme was a professional lutenist, and 
if B.M. is the Florentine Gentleman, and an amateur, the possibilities are 
endless.  But those duets are quite polished, so whoever B.M. was, he/she was a 
skilled composer.

In the ASiena Lute Book I though B,M might be Benedetto Moretti, amember of a 
long succession of lutenists activein Siena.  By the way, I did not give that 
manuscript its name. Lute Book found in Siena is the name on the modern 
binding.   But the watermark has an ensigne of the city of Siena, further 
confirming its Siennese originas.

Are those duets also in the Robert Dowland book of 1610?  I don't have time to 
look.  Off to see Ansel Adams at the MFA.  I'm going to ask about the Bambino 
guitar they own, belonging formerly to Madame Robert Sidney Pratten.  But I'll 
report on it in the guitar list.  They have had over 100 messages on that 
thread.  

ajn
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mathias R=F6sel 
  To: Lutelist 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 9:37 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: V. Galilei


  Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
   I'm off. Talk to you all later.  Oh I see Arto found them. They are at  the 
very end.  Also there are other duets with Italian titles on fols. 23-27.  But 
Ariel probably means the contrapuncti.  Yes, Galilei says that B.M. is a 
Florentine Gentleman.

  Don't remember exactly whence I got it, but I guess, it was G=F8ran who
  once posted the tab pieces of Galilei's Fronimo. Anyway, BM might be
  Bernardo Monzino of Florence (my copy has question marks at that,
  though).

  Cheers,

  Mathias
  --

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--

[LUTE] Re: V. Galilei

[Arto Wikla]

Dear Sean,

 I'm not sure I've seen references below to the earlier edition of Il
 Fronimo (I'm sorry I don't know the publ date --my HMBrown resides at
 the library ;^). It has different musical examples, eg, the Ancor che
 col partire and its fantasy aren't in the 1584 ed. Are there other
 contrapunti in it as well as the BM works? This has been very
 difficult to find!

In the LSA page
  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/associated/Galilei/
they have lots of information of Il Fronimo! There is for ex. a 
spreadsheet 

For a clearer presentation of the concordances among the two 
publications of Fronimo and the various secondary sources, we provide a 
cross-index in the form of an Excel spreadsheet. (49.5 KB)

 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/associated/Galilei/MusicIndex.xls

It lists and compares the pieces in the 1568 and 1584 versions of Il 
Fronimo. There you can find that  Ancor che col partir is on page 66 
of the 1568 edition (the Fantasia on Ancoe is on page 94).  And there 
are many pieces that are only in one of the editions.

best,

Arto



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[LUTE] Re: V. Galilei

[Sean Smith]

Aha! The perfect answer! I rarely go to the LSA page --more fool me.

Thanks Arto,
Sean


On Aug 18, 2005, at 6:26 AM, Arto Wikla wrote:

 Dear Sean,

 I'm not sure I've seen references below to the earlier edition of Il
 Fronimo (I'm sorry I don't know the publ date --my HMBrown resides at
 the library ;^). It has different musical examples, eg, the Ancor che
 col partire and its fantasy aren't in the 1584 ed. Are there other
 contrapunti in it as well as the BM works? This has been very
 difficult to find!

 In the LSA page
   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/associated/Galilei/
 they have lots of information of Il Fronimo! There is for ex. a
 spreadsheet

 For a clearer presentation of the concordances among the two
 publications of Fronimo and the various secondary sources, we provide a
 cross-index in the form of an Excel spreadsheet. (49.5 KB)

  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/associated/Galilei/MusicIndex.xls

 It lists and compares the pieces in the 1568 and 1584 versions of Il
 Fronimo. There you can find that  Ancor che col partir is on page 66
 of the 1568 edition (the Fantasia on Ancoe is on page 94).  And there
 are many pieces that are only in one of the editions.

 best,

 Arto



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 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] V. Galilei

[arielabra]

Dear list,


I’m looking for a digital edition of V. Galilei’s lute duets (all of them, 
if possible), in any format.
I’ve got the music in printed versions, but I’ll need to edit a couple of 
things, and if I could avoid transcribing everything from 0 it would be great. 
I’d really appreciate your help.
Thanks in advance.
Saludos from Seville,
Ariel.




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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: V. Galilei

[Arthur Ness]

Ariel,

My message to you was returned.  What is the source? I've forgotten.  Do you 
mean the duet(s?) by B.M. Gentleman? Sakudos, Arthur.
  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:29 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] V. Galilei


  Dear list,


  I=E2?Tm looking for a digital edition of V. Galilei=E2?Ts lute duets (all of 
them, if possible), in any format.
  I=E2?Tve got the music in printed versions, but I=E2?Tll need to edit a 
couple of things, and if I could avoid transcribing everything from 0 it would 
be great. I=E2?Td really appreciate your help.
  Thanks in advance.
  Saludos from Seville,
  Ariel.




  To get on or off this list see list information at
  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

[LUTE] AW: Re: V. Galilei

[lautenist]

If I recall correctly you will find the complete Il Fronimo on the Fronimo 
site of Francesco Tribioli.

Best wishes
Thomas


Ariel,

My message to you was returned.  What is the source? I've forgotten.  Do you 
mean the duet(s?) by B.M. Gentleman? Sakudos, Arthur.
  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:29 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] V. Galilei


  Dear list,


  I=E2?Tm looking for a digital edition of V. Galilei=E2?Ts lute duets (all of 
them, if possible), in any format.
  I=E2?Tve got the music in printed versions, but I=E2?Tll need to edit a 
couple of things, and if I could avoid transcribing everything from 0 it would 
be great. I=E2?Td really appreciate your help.
  Thanks in advance.
  Saludos from Seville,
  Ariel.




  To get on or off this list see list information at
  a 
href=http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html;http://www.cs.dar
tmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html/a

--

[LUTE] Re: V. Galilei

[Roman Turovsky]

Ariel probably meant Contrapunti, verdad?
RT

 Ariel,

 My message to you was returned.  What is the source? I've forgotten.  Do
you mean the duet(s?) by B.M. Gentleman? Sakudos, Arthur.
   - Original Message -
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:29 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] V. Galilei


   Dear list,


   I=E2?Tm looking for a digital edition of V. Galilei=E2?Ts lute duets
(all of them, if possible), in any format.
   I=E2?Tve got the music in printed versions, but I=E2?Tll need to edit a
couple of things, and if I could avoid transcribing everything from 0 it
would be great. I=E2?Td really appreciate your help.
   Thanks in advance.
   Saludos from Seville,
   Ariel.




   To get on or off this list see list information at
   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 --

[LUTE] RE: AW: Re: V. Galilei

[Francesco Tribioli]

Oh, no... That is my tablature editor program. There is a whole scan of Il
Fronimo in PDF or JPEG somewhere but I don't remember where...

Francesco

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:34 PM
 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Subject: [LUTE] AW: Re: V. Galilei
 
 If I recall correctly you will find the complete Il Fronimo 
 on the Fronimo site of Francesco Tribioli.
 
 Best wishes
 Thomas
 
 
 Ariel,
 
 My message to you was returned.  What is the source? I've 
 forgotten.  
 Do you mean the duet(s?) by B.M. Gentleman? Sakudos, Arthur.
   - Original Message -
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:29 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] V. Galilei
 
 
   Dear list,
 
 
   I=E2?Tm looking for a digital edition of V. Galilei=E2?Ts 
 lute duets 
 (all of them, if possible), in any format.
   I=E2?Tve got the music in printed versions, but I=E2?Tll 
 need to edit 
 a couple of things, and if I could avoid transcribing 
 everything from 0 
 it would be great. I=E2?Td really appreciate your help.
   Thanks in advance.
   Saludos from Seville,
   Ariel.
 
 
 
 
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   a
 href=http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html;
 http://ww
 w.cs.dar tmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html/a
 
 --
 
 

[LUTE] Re: RE: AW: Re: V. Galilei

[Arto Wikla]

On Wednesday 17 August 2005 15:43, Francesco Tribioli wrote:
 Oh, no... That is my tablature editor program. There is a whole scan
 of Il Fronimo in PDF or JPEG somewhere but I don't remember
 where...

With Google I found the link in LSA page
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/associated/Galilei/

And the link
 http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=GallicaO=NUMM-58217

All the best,

Arto



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[LUTE] Re: V. Galilei

[Arthur Ness]

Yes, contrapuncti if they are the same pieces I am thinking abiout.But where is 
the original?   Dinko has a possible identity for B.M. Gentleman.  There's also 
a B.M. in the Siena book (which I can't find just now.sigh)

I'm off. Talk to you all later.  Oh I see Arto found them. They are at  the 
very end.  Also there are other duets with Italian titles on fols. 23-27.  But 
Ariel probably means the contrapuncti.  Yes, Galilei says that B.M. is a 
Florentine Gentleman.

Arthur.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Roman Turovsky 
  To: Arthur Ness ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:45 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: V. Galilei


  Ariel probably meant Contrapunti, verdad?
  RT

   Ariel,
  
   My message to you was returned.  What is the source? I've forgotten.  Do
  you mean the duet(s?) by B.M. Gentleman? Sakudos, Arthur.
 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:29 AM
 Subject: [LUTE] V. Galilei
  
  
 Dear list,
  
  
 I=E2?Tm looking for a digital edition of V. Galilei=E2?Ts lute duets
  (all of them, if possible), in any format.
 I=E2?Tve got the music in printed versions, but I=E2?Tll need to edit a
  couple of things, and if I could avoid transcribing everything from 0 it
  would be great. I=E2?Td really appreciate your help.
 Thanks in advance.
 Saludos from Seville,
 Ariel.
  
  
  
  
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  
   --



--

[LUTE] Re: V. Galilei

[Mathias Rösel]

Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
 I'm off. Talk to you all later.  Oh I see Arto found them. They are at  the 
 very end.  Also there are other duets with Italian titles on fols. 23-27.  
 But Ariel probably means the contrapuncti.  Yes, Galilei says that B.M. is a 
 Florentine Gentleman.

Don't remember exactly whence I got it, but I guess, it was Gøran who
once posted the tab pieces of Galilei's Fronimo. Anyway, BM might be
Bernardo Monzino of Florence (my copy has question marks at that,
though).

Cheers,

Mathias
--

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[LUTE] Fw: Re: RE: AW: Re: V. Galilei

[Arthur Ness]

Dear Ariel,

Didn't you see Arto's message?

Arto found it in the LSA pages.  Go to the first link *(below) and go down the 
a page until you see Transcrtions.  That will give you a link to Goeran's TAB 
edition.  I can't read it beause you need TAB, apparently.  But the titles show 
that at the end are several pages of Contrp. The second link mystefies me. I 
think you have to pay.  So you have them. I have Carol MacClintock's 
translation with the oruginal tablature in facsimile.  I can send them via 
snail mail.  But I think Goeran's will do the trick.

It is really kind of him to make his hard work available to others.  So the 
Contrapuncti by B.M., Florentine Gentleman are at the very end.  Three other 
duets with Italian titles are on folios 31-42, including a Fuga a l'unisono, 
presumably a canon at the unison.  Boom.

Thanks for the information, Arto.  I'm having difficulties with Ariel's mail.  
Maybe he didn't see your message.

Art
- Original Message - 
From: Arto Wikla 
To: Francesco Tribioli 
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: RE: AW: Re: V. Galilei


On Wednesday 17 August 2005 15:43, Francesco Tribioli wrote:
 Oh, no... That is my tablature editor program. There is a whole scan
 of Il Fronimo in PDF or JPEG somewhere but I don't remember
 where...

With Google I found the link in LSA page
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/associated/Galilei/

And the link
 http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=GallicaO=NUMM-58217

All the best,

Arto



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--

[LUTE] Re: Fw: Re: RE: AW: Re: V. Galilei

[Alain Veylit]

Wayne has a cool feature on his site: you can e-mail the tab file in the 
body of your file and send it to a special address that returns a 
printable PostScript document. See his WEB site for more detail.
Alain

Arthur Ness wrote:

Dear Ariel,

Didn't you see Arto's message?

Arto found it in the LSA pages.  Go to the first link *(below) and go down the 
a page until you see Transcrtions.  That will give you a link to Goeran's TAB 
edition.  I can't read it beause you need TAB, apparently.  But the titles 
show that at the end are several pages of Contrp. The second link mystefies 
me. I think you have to pay.  So you have them. I have Carol MacClintock's 
translation with the oruginal tablature in facsimile.  I can send them via 
snail mail.  But I think Goeran's will do the trick.

It is really kind of him to make his hard work available to others.  So the 
Contrapuncti by B.M., Florentine Gentleman are at the very end.  Three other 
duets with Italian titles are on folios 31-42, including a Fuga a l'unisono, 
presumably a canon at the unison.  Boom.

Thanks for the information, Arto.  I'm having difficulties with Ariel's mail.  
Maybe he didn't see your message.

Art
- Original Message - 
From: Arto Wikla 
To: Francesco Tribioli 
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: RE: AW: Re: V. Galilei


On Wednesday 17 August 2005 15:43, Francesco Tribioli wrote:
  

Oh, no... That is my tablature editor program. There is a whole scan
of Il Fronimo in PDF or JPEG somewhere but I don't remember
where...



With Google I found the link in LSA page
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/associated/Galilei/

And the link
 http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=GallicaO=NUMM-58217

All the best,

Arto



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--

  

[LUTE] RE: Re: Fw: Re: RE: AW: Re: V. Galilei

[Fossum, Arthur]

The link I gave

http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=GallicaO=NUMM-58217


If you click telecharger you can generate a pdf of all the pages.




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[LUTE] Re: Re: Fw: Re: RE: AW: Re: V. Galilei

[Wayne Cripps]

It would be easy for me to put Goeran's transcriptions on
the web for people to download, if he doesn't mind.

Wayne

 From: Alain Veylit [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Wayne has a cool feature on his site: you can e-mail the tab file in the 
 body of your file and send it to a special address that returns a 
 printable PostScript document. See his WEB site for more detail.
 Alain
 
 Arthur Ness wrote:
 
 Dear Ariel,
 
 Didn't you see Arto's message?
 
 Arto found it in the LSA pages.  Go to the first link *(below) and go down 
 the a page until you see Transcrtions.  That will give you a link to 
 Goeran's TAB edition.  I can't read it beause you need TAB, apparently.  But 
 the titles show that at the end are several pages of Contrp. The second 
 link mystefies me. I think you have to pay.  So you have them. I have Carol 
 MacClintock's translation with the oruginal tablature in facsimile.  I can 
 send them via snail mail.  But I think Goeran's will do the trick.
 
 It is really kind of him to make his hard work available to others.  So the 
 Contrapuncti by B.M., Florentine Gentleman are at the very end.  Three other 
 duets with Italian titles are on folios 31-42, including a Fuga a l'unisono, 
 presumably a canon at the unison.  Boom.
 
 Thanks for the information, Arto.  I'm having difficulties with Ariel's 
 mail.  Maybe he didn't see your message.
 
 Art
 - Original Message - 
 From: Arto Wikla 
 To: Francesco Tribioli 
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:50 AM
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: RE: AW: Re: V. Galilei
 
 
 On Wednesday 17 August 2005 15:43, Francesco Tribioli wrote:
   
 
 Oh, no... That is my tablature editor program. There is a whole scan
 of Il Fronimo in PDF or JPEG somewhere but I don't remember
 where...
 
 
 
 With Google I found the link in LSA page
  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/associated/Galilei/
 
 And the link
  http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/Visualiseur?Destination=GallicaO=NUMM-58217
 
 All the best,
 
 Arto
 


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Re: Galilei (broken style)

[G.R. Crona]

Talking about threads or Verbindungen, they seem to be all over
the place. And  the style brise, or broken style, (one of the lutes
many fine techniques, found already in a Marco fantasia (#?), became
the rage (in France/England) from the beginning of the 17th century,
starting with Francisque, Robert Ballard et. al. and its subsequent
adaptation by the french baroque lutenists and later harpsichordists.
IMV it certainly is conductive to a very pleasing style of making
variations as seen in Galilei 1620.

cf. New Grove entry, Satoh CD and (a few) lute-archive entries.

On 5/10/05, Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  But Michelangelo G. really is a very clever composer!
 
 what I find most interesting in his pieces are his variations. There is
 a thread between Galilei, and Gianoncelli, and Mezangeau and the
 Gaultiers. A certain fashion of breaking melodic lines. I, for one, try
 not to play them too fast, but in a moderate tempo. IMHO, the crucial
 point is in making audible, or keeping, the melodic line.
 
 Best wishes,
 
 Mathias
 --
 
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 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

Re: Antwort: Re: Galilei

[Arto Wikla]

Dear Thomas,

on Mon, 9 May 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 didn't Werl just add pieces? I haven't looked at this music as variations
 ..
 I, too, like the M.Galilei

Well, I just was perhaps too eager to write something positive, something
on topic to the List... ;-)

But Michelangelo G. really is a very clever composer! Perhaps it is in the 
genes? Just think the father Vincenzo and the big brother Galileo!  :-)

Arto



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Re: Antwort: Re: Galilei

[Mathias Rösel]

 But Michelangelo G. really is a very clever composer!

what I find most interesting in his pieces are his variations. There is
a thread between Galilei, and Gianoncelli, and Mezangeau and the
Gaultiers. A certain fashion of breaking melodic lines. I, for one, try
not to play them too fast, but in a moderate tempo. IMHO, the crucial
point is in making audible, or keeping, the melodic line.

Best wishes,

Mathias
--

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Galilei

[Mathias Rösel]

G.R. Crona [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
 Listening to Paul Beier's recording of the Michelagnolo Galilei 1620
 publication, the second track, Sonata in C-major consists of a
 toccata and two voltae. The first volta has a very beautiful division
 not found in the facsimile. Did Beier make the division himself? Is it
 found in the Werl addenda published in the supplement of Lute News
 april 2002? Is it otherwise available somewhere? (I could pick it note
 by note from the recording, but would prefer not to, if it can be 
 found somewhere in an easier way). Michelagnolo's music strikes a
 deep-felt chord these days...

still somebody?

Mathias
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Re: Galilei

[Sal Salvaggio]

Mathias

I have not heard the recording but the division or
double might possibly have been improvised by Mr.
Beier, as was the practice by lewters ond others from
that time period.There is a good article in an old LSA
newsletter (80's or early 90's I think) where someone
uses Galelei's works to demonstrate how to do this. I
love this manuscript because it heavily leans in the
direction of the broken style of variation.

Sal Salvaggio




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Re: Galilei

[Alain Veylit]

Sal,
I too really like Galilei's book. It is not however a manuscript, but an 
engraved work...
Alain

Sal Salvaggio wrote:

Mathias

I have not heard the recording but the division or
double might possibly have been improvised by Mr.
Beier, as was the practice by lewters ond others from
that time period.There is a good article in an old LSA
newsletter (80's or early 90's I think) where someone
uses Galelei's works to demonstrate how to do this. I
love this manuscript because it heavily leans in the
direction of the broken style of variation.

Sal Salvaggio



   
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Re: Galilei

[Arto Wikla]

Dear all,

  Listening to Paul Beier's recording of the Michelagnolo Galilei 1620
  publication, the second track, Sonata in C-major consists of a
  toccata and two voltae. The first volta has a very beautiful division
  not found in the facsimile. Did Beier make the division himself? Is it
  found in the Werl addenda published in the supplement of Lute News
  april 2002? Is it otherwise available somewhere? (I could pick it note
  by note from the recording, but would prefer not to, if it can be 
  found somewhere in an easier way). Michelagnolo's music strikes a
  deep-felt chord these days...

In the facsimile edition published by Tree Edition, the handwritten added 
Werl-variations are easily readable in the C-major pieces. Very good 
music. As  all the book! To my taste M. Galilei is one of the most clever 
composers of all the lute period.

All the best

Arto



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