[LUTE] Re: Help for installation of geared pegs.
Mel Wong will be installing these pegs in my 1968 Rubio as part of the restoration. He has used them in the past and reports excellent results. They are also relatively inexpensive. I am looking forward to the experience. A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer EMail: [1]john.mardi...@asu.edu Cell: [2]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs) Titan Lab: [3]480-727-5651 NION UltraSTEM Lab: [4]480-727-5652 JEOL ARM 200 Lab: [5]480-727-5653 2010F Lab: [6]480-727-5654 Office: [7]480-965-7946 John Cowley Center for HREM, LE-CSSS B134B Bateman Physical Sciences Building Arizona State University [8]PO Box 871704 [9]Tempe, AZ 85287-1704 On Nov 29, 2014, at 8:22 AM, "Herbert Ward" <[10]wa...@physics.utexas.edu> wrote: I'm considering installation of geared pegs on my lute. The website ([11]http://www.pegheds.com) says that any qualified repair person can do the installation. But that is probably for violins, cellos, etc. Would a violin repair person be able to do the installation? Are there fundamental differences between a violin pegbox and a lute pegbox? Would a cello repair person be better than a violin repair person? Of my 13 pegs, 10 wind internally to the pegbox, and 3 wind externally. My understanding is that the external pegs require special attention. So I will, at first, install only 10 geared pegs. To get on or off this list see list information at [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu 2. tel:408-921-3253 3. tel:480-727-5651 4. tel:480-727-5652 5. tel:480-727-5653 6. tel:480-727-5654 7. tel:480-965-7946 8. x-apple-data-detectors://6/ 9. x-apple-data-detectors://6/ 10. mailto:wa...@physics.utexas.edu 11. http://www.pegheds.com/ 12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Help for installation of geared pegs.
I'm considering installation of geared pegs on my lute. The website (http://www.pegheds.com) says that any qualified repair person can do the installation. But that is probably for violins, cellos, etc. Would a violin repair person be able to do the installation? Are there fundamental differences between a violin pegbox and a lute pegbox? Would a cello repair person be better than a violin repair person? Of my 13 pegs, 10 wind internally to the pegbox, and 3 wind externally. My understanding is that the external pegs require special attention. So I will, at first, install only 10 geared pegs. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ebony Pegs Redux
Another digression, I know... My studies of wood finishing concludes that more products were varnished than not. We talk a lot about oil and other finishes, but varnishes and shellacs of various types were the most common. Varnished wood products darken with age. Varnished wood from the mid to late 20th Century is darker now than when new. Varnished wood from the 16h Century has generally taken on a good bit of amber color. The lute Hans Holbein used in his painting, The Ambassadors, had a nice light color. Had that lute survived, and had it been originally varnished, I'll bet would be much darker today. Most old wood stains that I know of were made from acid with iron filings dissolved in the solution. I wonder what would happen to egg white finishes on soundboards? I wish I could remember where I read about ebony pegs going out of round. It was in some article about vihuelas or lutes. I'll look. CB -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of William Samson Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 1:42 PM To: co...@medievalist.org; Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: Ebony Pegs Redux As far as I can tell ebony was not used a lot for tuning pegs throughout the history of the lute - museum catalogues often describe peg material as 'stained fruitwood'. The iconography of pre-1580ish lutes shows that they usually had a blonde finish, and that includes the pegs. One curious thing, though, is that Mace described Laux Maler's lutes as having a 'dark reddish black' colour which does not chime with most paintings of lutes in that period. Has anyone any idea of why this should be the case? Could they all have been stained/varnished at some point? Bill From: "co...@medievalist.org" To: Lute List Sent: Monday, 30 September 2013, 11:33 Subject: [LUTE] Ebony Pegs Redux All, The discussion of pegs going out of round is interesting, but it isn't addressing my original question, which was whether ebony was used in pre-1600 instrument building (or for that matter what other woods would have been used in lieu of ebony) and if there is any documentation off this which I can get my hands on. I'd appreciate any information on this subject. Thank you. Regards, Craig To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ebony Pegs Redux
As far as I can tell ebony was not used a lot for tuning pegs throughout the history of the lute - museum catalogues often describe peg material as 'stained fruitwood'. The iconography of pre-1580ish lutes shows that they usually had a blonde finish, and that includes the pegs. One curious thing, though, is that Mace described Laux Maler's lutes as having a 'dark reddish black' colour which does not chime with most paintings of lutes in that period. Has anyone any idea of why this should be the case? Could they all have been stained/varnished at some point? Bill From: "co...@medievalist.org" To: Lute List Sent: Monday, 30 September 2013, 11:33 Subject: [LUTE] Ebony Pegs Redux All, The discussion of pegs going out of round is interesting, but it isn't addressing my original question, which was whether ebony was used in pre-1600 instrument building (or for that matter what other woods would have been used in lieu of ebony) and if there is any documentation off this which I can get my hands on. I'd appreciate any information on this subject. Thank you. Regards, Craig To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ebony Pegs
Thank you, Daniel. That's greatly appreciated. Regards, Craig To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ebony Pegs
Craig: Some information is available within the Lautenweltadressbuch. http://bit.ly/S4CPmB If you put 15 into the Date field, it will pull up all the instruments made in the 16th century (as well as those made or repaired in 1615, 1715, etc.). In the Material field you will often see the material of which the back is made and occasionally some other portion of the instrument, though not likely the material for the pegs. You will see a lot of yew, maple and ivory backs. You do have to allow for the presence of a few forgeries in the list, and not every museum report is likely to be completely accurate, so you have to be a bit skeptical of things like mahogany, for example. Regards, Daniel -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of co...@medievalist.org Sent: 28 September, 2013 19:49 To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Ebony Pegs Collected Wisdom, I know that today we know there's too much silica in ebony to use as tuning pegs, but I'm curious as to whether using ebony for pegs was a period practice pre-1600? Can anyone point me to appropriate documentation on the types of woods used on stringed instruments prior to 1600? Thank you as always. Regards, Craig To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Ebony Pegs Redux
All, The discussion of pegs going out of round is interesting, but it isn't addressing my original question, which was whether ebony was used in pre-1600 instrument building (or for that matter what other woods would have been used in lieu of ebony) and if there is any documentation off this which I can get my hands on. I'd appreciate any information on this subject. Thank you. Regards, Craig To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ebony Pegs
Thank you for your comments. I am learning a lot from the members of this website. Chris -Original Message- From: Edward Mast [mailto:nedma...@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 7:42 PM To: Chris Barker Cc: 'howard posner'; 'lute list' Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Ebony Pegs In my 40 years of cello playing I've never encountered problems with the ebony pegs on any of my instruments. Certainly I've never had any pegs go out of round. On very old instruments, much played and tuned, the holes in the peg box may become enlarged in which case a luthier will simply fill and re-drill/ream them. I think the use of lighter wood - boxwood? - pegs on violins or cellos is largely a matter of aesthetics. Some players may prefer the look, along with a lighter wood tailpiece to match the pegs. Ned To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ebony Pegs
In my 40 years of cello playing I've never encountered problems with the ebony pegs on any of my instruments. Certainly I've never had any pegs go out of round. On very old instruments, much played and tuned, the holes in the peg box may become enlarged in which case a luthier will simply fill and re-drill/ream them. I think the use of lighter wood - boxwood? - pegs on violins or cellos is largely a matter of aesthetics. Some players may prefer the look, along with a lighter wood tailpiece to match the pegs. Ned To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ebony Pegs
On Sep 29, 2013, at 11:28 AM, Chris Barker wrote: > This is true about silica... And the fact that ebony dries at different > rates with and across the grain. I have recently noticed that a number of > fine violins have light colored pegs, possibly boxwood. You'll find an interesting discussion of ebony and "boxwood" here: http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?ID=14644 > I have observed > this more in recent years than in the 1970s and earlier. I wish I could > remember where I read the article about ebony pegs going out of round. Any peg can go out of round. At least one lute maker (Ray Nurse) will tell you to regard pegs as disposable items like strings and frets. My ten-course has ebony pegs. I've had them worked on once in the 29 years I've had the instrument. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ebony Pegs
This is true about silica... And the fact that ebony dries at different rates with and across the grain. I have recently noticed that a number of fine violins have light colored pegs, possibly boxwood. I have observed this more in recent years than in the 1970s and earlier. I wish I could remember where I read the article about ebony pegs going out of round. Regards, Chris -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of howard posner Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 9:54 AM To: lute list Subject: [LUTE] Re: Ebony Pegs On Sep 28, 2013, at 5:48 PM, co...@medievalist.org wrote: > I know that today we know there's too much silica in ebony to use as > tuning pegs This will come as a surprise to most of the violinists in the world. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ebony Pegs
On Sep 28, 2013, at 5:48 PM, co...@medievalist.org wrote: > I know that today we know there's too much silica in ebony to use as tuning > pegs This will come as a surprise to most of the violinists in the world. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Ebony Pegs
Collected Wisdom, I know that today we know there's too much silica in ebony to use as tuning pegs, but I'm curious as to whether using ebony for pegs was a period practice pre-1600? Can anyone point me to appropriate documentation on the types of woods used on stringed instruments prior to 1600? Thank you as always. Regards, Craig To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mmmmmmechanical Pegs
>One might of course thinking of inventing automatic pegs that each time >the open string is played sense its tune and adjust it >automatically Gibson has it. David -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mmmmmmechanical Pegs
>But I have hard time seeing how different pegs, even digital >solar-powered servo-assisted ones, would have anything to do with >not needing to tune at all. One might of course thinking of inventing automatic pegs that each time the open string is played sense its tune and adjust it automatically without any noise if the deviation from the desired tune is above a certain treshold... If this is possible - why not? F __ From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Edward Martin Sent: Fri 17.08.2012 18:02 To: howard posner; Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mmechanical Pegs Clever, Howard! ed At 10:37 AM 8/17/2012, howard posner wrote: >On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Edward Martin wrote: > > > The hall filled with people, and > > the heat and humidity went up. The gut strings were so stable with > > pegheds, that we had NO TUNING for the entire concert, with exception > > of tuning diapasons to a different key!! That in itself is remarkable. > >But I have hard time seeing how different pegs, even digital >solar-powered servo-assisted ones, would have anything to do with >not needing to tune at all. I can think of at least two likelier >explanations: 1) your audience consisted of people suffering from >hypothermia and dehydration, or 2) you and your partner are the >elect of God. There may be others. >-- > >To get on or off this list see list information at >[1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 [2]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871&ref=name [3]http://www.myspace.com/edslute [4]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871&ref=name 3. http://www.myspace.com/edslute 4. http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
"The first experience with these pegheds was on Dan Winheld's 8-course lute. I really liked them, a lot." Well, old pal, you just tried them out- you didn't have to live with them! I suspect that as my lute was Dan's trial run with these things, that not all the bugs (the pegs themselves as well as installation thereof) were worked out. They have settled down somewhat after the first year when I was ready to rip the whole pegbox off and throw it from Berkeley to Dan's workshop. But just a quick-change, outside the pegbox option for the 1st course alone would make all the difference to me. While the 25% gear reduction slightly helps the 7th & 8th course fundamentals, I find it very distracting, and slows me down a lot trying to tune & maintain tuning on all the other strings. Different strokes and all that, I suppose. Otherwise, this is the best lute I've ever had. As to Howard Posner's remark, I didn't even know you were running- but since God Himself elected you, my vote is irrelevant. At least we can now forget about November & the upcoming madness. Who will you appoint to be Secretary of Pegs? Dan On 8/16/2012 10:23 PM, Edward Martin wrote: OK, Nancy asked me to jump in, so I will. The first experience with these pegheds was on Dan Winheld's 8-course lute. I really liked them, a lot. Then, about a year ago, I took my first plunge with these gears (pegheds). I had them installed on my 6-course vihuela, and they immediately solved many, many problems. First off, baroque guitars and vihuelas (probably renaissance guitars) have problems, in that the traditional peg goes through only one hole, as opposed to two holes for a lute. Therefore, the vihuela has a greater tendency to slip. The pegheds remedied this problem, and I later decided, last early spring, to have them installed on my 11-course lute. My 11-course baroque lute partner, Tom Walker, also has a lute that is an exact match to mine, and he also has pegheds. So, I have experience with 4 instruments in pegheds, (very limited with Dan Winheld's 8-course, however). It improved my 11-course instrument dramatically, with better tuning. This is especially important when using gut, and all these instruments are entirely strung in gut. By the way, Tom'sa lute was just 5 days old (!!) when he received it, and we had a concert that night. The hall filled with people, and the heat and humidity went up. The gut strings were so stable with pegheds, that we had NO TUNING for the entire concert, with exception of tuning diapasons to a different key!! That in itself is remarkable. Plainly put, I love them. They are unbelievably smooth, as in a very expensive guitar machine. They are adjustable in tension - as with a traditional peg, push them in and they will be tighter, pull them out, and looser. Whether in a tight or loose setting, they are smooth. They never slip, never stick. This summer, with all the humidity, I had no problems with stuck or slipping pegs they stay, it pitch, where you put them. Speaking of tuning, they are geared at 25% as compared to a peg. For example, if one wanted to tune a half step sharp, one turns the gear 4 times further than when using a traditional peg. That makes for much more accurate tuning, as they will not skip too sharp, as compared to a traditional peg. I find myself tuning more, but very much faster than before, and yes, I tune sometimes while playing. Tuning with pegheds is actually a joy now, as I can tune more accurately, and much faster. No more sore fingers trying to turn stick pegs!! We all know what it is like to adjust to a certain pitch... we play around, get it where we want, let go, and it slips with traditional pegs! Now, I have trust, so I can quickly adjust, without fear of slipping; yes, I can no adjust tuning "on the fly" while playing. As for weight, Dan Larson has on his web site, comparisons of the weights of pegs vs. pegheds. Different types of wood make different weights in pegs. Pegheds are , if my memory serves me correctly, just 2 grams more, or so. I cannot distinguish any difference in the weight of the neck or instrument, and the pegheds made, in my opinion, no difference whatsoever in sound, other than sounding better because I can now tune more accurately, therefore sounding better. No, the 11-course lute does have any perception to added weight. There are 2 drawbacks: 1. When changing a string, because the pegheds do not slip, one has to un-wind the peghed to get the old string out. This is not a problem, as the added time (perhaps 7-8 seconds) lost is nothing, compared to the time saved in fast and accurate tuning. 2. For those that only want authenticity, pegheds were not used in old times. Neither was nylgut, nylon, carbon, or perhaps wound strings for that matter! Many people who saw them on my lute this summer were fooled, into thinki
[LUTE] Re: Mmmmmmechanical Pegs
Clever, Howard! ed At 10:37 AM 8/17/2012, howard posner wrote: >On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Edward Martin wrote: > > > The hall filled with people, and > > the heat and humidity went up. The gut strings were so stable with > > pegheds, that we had NO TUNING for the entire concert, with exception > > of tuning diapasons to a different key!! That in itself is remarkable. > >But I have hard time seeing how different pegs, even digital >solar-powered servo-assisted ones, would have anything to do with >not needing to tune at all. I can think of at least two likelier >explanations: 1) your audience consisted of people suffering from >hypothermia and dehydration, or 2) you and your partner are the >elect of God. There may be others. >-- > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
[LUTE] Re: Mmmmmmechanical Pegs
On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Edward Martin wrote: > The hall filled with people, and > the heat and humidity went up. The gut strings were so stable with > pegheds, that we had NO TUNING for the entire concert, with exception > of tuning diapasons to a different key!! That in itself is remarkable. But I have hard time seeing how different pegs, even digital solar-powered servo-assisted ones, would have anything to do with not needing to tune at all. I can think of at least two likelier explanations: 1) your audience consisted of people suffering from hypothermia and dehydration, or 2) you and your partner are the elect of God. There may be others. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mmmmmmmmechanical Pegs
On Aug 17, 2012, at 5:30 AM, Louis Aull wrote: > If you fear a peg slipping, something is not right with your > peg/pegbox. Keep the lute in the case This prevents not only slipping, but a lot of tedious playing and practicing, so it's a time-saver all around. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Mechanical Pegs
Thanks to everyone for their comments on the pegs! Ken To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
Ed wrote: "I would put them on all my instruments, if I could afford to do so." So, what do they cost? I took a quick look at the Peghead website, but didn't see any price information. Perhaps it is there somewhere, and I just didn't look long enough or hard enough. I am interested because I am having a new instrument built (which has already passed five due dates! When, oh when, will it be ready?) and would be willing to consider them based on your testimony, Ed. -Original Message- From: Edward Martin Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 12:23 AM To: Ken Brodkey ; Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs OK, Nancy asked me to jump in, so I will. The first experience with these pegheds was on Dan Winheld's 8-course lute. I really liked them, a lot. Then, about a year ago, I took my first plunge with these gears (pegheds). I had them installed on my 6-course vihuela, and they immediately solved many, many problems. First off, baroque guitars and vihuelas (probably renaissance guitars) have problems, in that the traditional peg goes through only one hole, as opposed to two holes for a lute. Therefore, the vihuela has a greater tendency to slip. The pegheds remedied this problem, and I later decided, last early spring, to have them installed on my 11-course lute. My 11-course baroque lute partner, Tom Walker, also has a lute that is an exact match to mine, and he also has pegheds. So, I have experience with 4 instruments in pegheds, (very limited with Dan Winheld's 8-course, however). It improved my 11-course instrument dramatically, with better tuning. This is especially important when using gut, and all these instruments are entirely strung in gut. By the way, Tom'sa lute was just 5 days old (!!) when he received it, and we had a concert that night. The hall filled with people, and the heat and humidity went up. The gut strings were so stable with pegheds, that we had NO TUNING for the entire concert, with exception of tuning diapasons to a different key!! That in itself is remarkable. Plainly put, I love them. They are unbelievably smooth, as in a very expensive guitar machine. They are adjustable in tension - as with a traditional peg, push them in and they will be tighter, pull them out, and looser. Whether in a tight or loose setting, they are smooth. They never slip, never stick. This summer, with all the humidity, I had no problems with stuck or slipping pegs they stay, it pitch, where you put them. Speaking of tuning, they are geared at 25% as compared to a peg. For example, if one wanted to tune a half step sharp, one turns the gear 4 times further than when using a traditional peg. That makes for much more accurate tuning, as they will not skip too sharp, as compared to a traditional peg. I find myself tuning more, but very much faster than before, and yes, I tune sometimes while playing. Tuning with pegheds is actually a joy now, as I can tune more accurately, and much faster. No more sore fingers trying to turn stick pegs!! We all know what it is like to adjust to a certain pitch... we play around, get it where we want, let go, and it slips with traditional pegs! Now, I have trust, so I can quickly adjust, without fear of slipping; yes, I can no adjust tuning "on the fly" while playing. As for weight, Dan Larson has on his web site, comparisons of the weights of pegs vs. pegheds. Different types of wood make different weights in pegs. Pegheds are , if my memory serves me correctly, just 2 grams more, or so. I cannot distinguish any difference in the weight of the neck or instrument, and the pegheds made, in my opinion, no difference whatsoever in sound, other than sounding better because I can now tune more accurately, therefore sounding better. No, the 11-course lute does have any perception to added weight. There are 2 drawbacks: 1. When changing a string, because the pegheds do not slip, one has to un-wind the peghed to get the old string out. This is not a problem, as the added time (perhaps 7-8 seconds) lost is nothing, compared to the time saved in fast and accurate tuning. 2. For those that only want authenticity, pegheds were not used in old times. Neither was nylgut, nylon, carbon, or perhaps wound strings for that matter! Many people who saw them on my lute this summer were fooled, into thinking they were ebony (they are not). Thanks for asking..I would put them on all my instruments, if I could afford to do so. At 12:45 PM 8/16/2012, Ken Brodkey wrote: Has anyone tried the mechanical pegs made by Pegheds? I have a customer who is interested in replacing his traditional pegs with these. Any comments are much appreciated. Thanks. Ken To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 72
[LUTE] Re: -->Mechanical Pegs
I have no Idea why the `M' is dropped after Re:? in my responses. I added some characters above to see if some LEX is interpreting Re:M as a format command. Louis Aull -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
Your luthier can get them, or you may be able to buy them directly from pegheds.com, as noted already. However, installation of pegheds and other mechanical-advantage pegs is not for beginners or the faint of heart. They must be glued into the hole on one side of the pegbox, while the other side is left free to turn. It requires a specialist reamer, a very good hand, great care to do it right. And, if they must be removed, the glued side (while not difficult to clean out) must be reamed out and bushed to get it back to original size. Additionally, the norm is to pre-fit the pegs after reaming, cut and sand the end so it is close to the side of the glued hole, and possibly re-finish it. All of this requires the kind of dexterity with tools that doesn't automatically come with dexterity with fingerboards and string plucking! I don't have experience with them on lute. I do have experience with them on 'cellos: my wife has played-in a Heide with them, and we loved the ease, accuracy and staying power of them. So when we bought her latest, we had our Luthier install a set. And when I get my french viol, it will either have them, or make a trip to the luthier for them. They look authentic (the companies which make them are being very good about that!) and they do nothing bad to the instrument, as long as they are properly installed. With period strings (gut, gimped, loaded or open-wound) they'll be a balm! On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 9:13 AM, wrote: > Bruno asked: >> >> and where can those pegs be bought? Being from the old school,with >> lutes built in 1980, I haven't always followed up on the lates >> innovations... > > http://www.pegheds.com/ > > Craig > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
Bruno asked: > > and where can those pegs be bought? Being from the old school,with > lutes built in 1980, I haven't always followed up on the lates > innovations... http://www.pegheds.com/ Craig To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
Try this: http://www.pegheds.com/ For photos, see:: http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/news/mechanical-pegs-now-available-at-gamut-music.html ed At 07:23 AM 8/17/2012, Bruno Fournier wrote: >and where can those pegs be bought? Being from the old school,with >lutes built in 1980, I haven't always followed up on the lates >innovations... > >A > >Bruno > >On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Miles Dempster ><[1]miles.demps...@gmail.com> wrote: > > ..now, if somebody could double the length of my left arm, it might > be possible to tune my theorbo diapasons on the fly! > >On 2012-08-17, at 1:23 AM, Edward Martin wrote: >> OK, Nancy asked me to jump in, so I will. >> >> The first experience with these pegheds was on Dan Winheld's 8-course >> lute. A I really liked them, a lot. >> >> Then, about a year ago, I took my first plunge with these gears >> (pegheds). A I had them installed on my 6-course vihuela, and they >> immediately solved many, many problems. A First off, baroque guitars >> and vihuelas (probably renaissance guitars) A have problems, in that >> the traditional peg goes through only one hole, as opposed to two >> holes for a lute. A Therefore, the vihuela has a greater tendency to >> slip. A The pegheds remedied this problem, and I later decided, last >> early spring, to have them installed on my 11-course lute. A My >> 11-course baroque lute partner, Tom Walker, also has a lute that is >> an exact match to mine, and he also has pegheds. A So, I have >> experience with 4 instruments in pegheds, (very limited with Dan >> Winheld's 8-course, however). A It improved my 11-course instrument >> dramatically, with better tuning. A This is especially important when >> using gut, and all these instruments are entirely strung in gut. >> >> By the way, Tom'sa lute was just 5 days old (!!) when he received it, >> and we had a concert that night. A The hall filled with people, and >> the heat and humidity went up. A The gut strings were so stable with >> pegheds, that we had NO TUNING for the entire concert, with exception >> of tuning diapasons to a different key!! A That in itself is >remarkable. >> >> Plainly put, I love them. A They are unbelievably smooth, as in a >very >> expensive guitar machine. A They are adjustable in tension - as with >a >> traditional peg, push them in and they will be tighter, pull them >> out, and looser. A Whether in a tight or loose setting, they are >> smooth. A They never slip, never stick. A This summer, with all the >> humidity, I had no problems with stuck or slipping pegs they >> stay, it pitch, where you put them. A Speaking of tuning, they are >> geared at 25% as compared to a peg. A For example, if one wanted to >> tune a half step sharp, one turns the gear 4 times further than when >> using a traditional A peg. A That makes for much more accurate >tuning, >> as they will not skip too sharp, as compared to a traditional peg. >A I >> find myself tuning more, but very much faster than before, and yes, I >> tune sometimes while playing. A Tuning with pegheds is actually a joy >> now, as I can tune more accurately, and much faster. A No more sore >> fingers trying to turn stick pegs!! >> >> We all know what it is like to adjust to a certain pitch... we play >> around, get it where we want, let go, and it slips with traditional >> pegs! A Now, I have trust, so I can quickly adjust, without fear of >> slipping; A yes, I can no adjust tuning "on the fly" while playing. >> >> As for weight, Dan Larson has on his web site, comparisons of the >> weights of pegs vs. pegheds. A Different types of wood make different >> weights in pegs. A Pegheds are , if my memory serves me correctly, >> just 2 grams more, or so. A I cannot distinguish any difference in >the >> weight of the neck or instrument, and the pegheds made, in my >> opinion, no difference whatsoever in sound, other than sounding >> better because I can now tune more accurately, therefore sounding >> better. A No, the 11-course lute does have any perception to added >weight. >> >> There are 2 drawbacks: >> >> 1. When changing a string, because the pegheds do not slip, one has >> to un-wind the peghed to get the old string out. A This is not a &
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
You need the mechanical "peg" arms like "inspector gadget" (child cartoon)... -Message d'origine- .now, if somebody could double the length of my left arm, it might be possible to tune my theorbo diapasons on the fly! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: echanical Pegs
I wonder if they sell the mechanism so you could use something other than ebony. Most of my lutes use boxwood. The pegs also taper in size down to very small ones on the upper peg box of my swan neck. On a related topic, I use a tee handle peg wrench which allows very delicate tuning, even on the upper box on a swan neck at arm's length. If you fear a peg slipping, something is not right with your peg/pegbox. Keep the lute in the case and add a humidity gauge. When the case drops below 40% RH put water in the humidifier. This keeps the pegs round and the soundboard happy. Louis Aull -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
and where can those pegs be bought? Being from the old school,with lutes built in 1980, I haven't always followed up on the lates innovations... A Bruno On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Miles Dempster <[1]miles.demps...@gmail.com> wrote: ..now, if somebody could double the length of my left arm, it might be possible to tune my theorbo diapasons on the fly! On 2012-08-17, at 1:23 AM, Edward Martin wrote: > OK, Nancy asked me to jump in, so I will. > > The first experience with these pegheds was on Dan Winheld's 8-course > lute. A I really liked them, a lot. > > Then, about a year ago, I took my first plunge with these gears > (pegheds). A I had them installed on my 6-course vihuela, and they > immediately solved many, many problems. A First off, baroque guitars > and vihuelas (probably renaissance guitars) A have problems, in that > the traditional peg goes through only one hole, as opposed to two > holes for a lute. A Therefore, the vihuela has a greater tendency to > slip. A The pegheds remedied this problem, and I later decided, last > early spring, to have them installed on my 11-course lute. A My > 11-course baroque lute partner, Tom Walker, also has a lute that is > an exact match to mine, and he also has pegheds. A So, I have > experience with 4 instruments in pegheds, (very limited with Dan > Winheld's 8-course, however). A It improved my 11-course instrument > dramatically, with better tuning. A This is especially important when > using gut, and all these instruments are entirely strung in gut. > > By the way, Tom'sa lute was just 5 days old (!!) when he received it, > and we had a concert that night. A The hall filled with people, and > the heat and humidity went up. A The gut strings were so stable with > pegheds, that we had NO TUNING for the entire concert, with exception > of tuning diapasons to a different key!! A That in itself is remarkable. > > Plainly put, I love them. A They are unbelievably smooth, as in a very > expensive guitar machine. A They are adjustable in tension - as with a > traditional peg, push them in and they will be tighter, pull them > out, and looser. A Whether in a tight or loose setting, they are > smooth. A They never slip, never stick. A This summer, with all the > humidity, I had no problems with stuck or slipping pegs they > stay, it pitch, where you put them. A Speaking of tuning, they are > geared at 25% as compared to a peg. A For example, if one wanted to > tune a half step sharp, one turns the gear 4 times further than when > using a traditional A peg. A That makes for much more accurate tuning, > as they will not skip too sharp, as compared to a traditional peg. A I > find myself tuning more, but very much faster than before, and yes, I > tune sometimes while playing. A Tuning with pegheds is actually a joy > now, as I can tune more accurately, and much faster. A No more sore > fingers trying to turn stick pegs!! > > We all know what it is like to adjust to a certain pitch... we play > around, get it where we want, let go, and it slips with traditional > pegs! A Now, I have trust, so I can quickly adjust, without fear of > slipping; A yes, I can no adjust tuning "on the fly" while playing. > > As for weight, Dan Larson has on his web site, comparisons of the > weights of pegs vs. pegheds. A Different types of wood make different > weights in pegs. A Pegheds are , if my memory serves me correctly, > just 2 grams more, or so. A I cannot distinguish any difference in the > weight of the neck or instrument, and the pegheds made, in my > opinion, no difference whatsoever in sound, other than sounding > better because I can now tune more accurately, therefore sounding > better. A No, the 11-course lute does have any perception to added weight. > > There are 2 drawbacks: > > 1. When changing a string, because the pegheds do not slip, one has > to un-wind the peghed to get the old string out. A This is not a > problem, as the added time (perhaps 7-8 seconds) lost is nothing, > compared to the time saved in fast and accurate tuning. > 2. A For those that only want authenticity, pegheds were not used in > old times. A Neither was nylgut, nylon, carbon, or perhaps wound > strings for that matter! A Many people who saw them on my lute this > summer were fooled, into thinking they were ebony (they are not). > > Thanks for asking..I would put them on all my > instruments, if I could afford to do so. > > > > > At 12:45
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
..now, if somebody could double the length of my left arm, it might be possible to tune my theorbo diapasons on the fly! On 2012-08-17, at 1:23 AM, Edward Martin wrote: > OK, Nancy asked me to jump in, so I will. > > The first experience with these pegheds was on Dan Winheld's 8-course > lute. I really liked them, a lot. > > Then, about a year ago, I took my first plunge with these gears > (pegheds). I had them installed on my 6-course vihuela, and they > immediately solved many, many problems. First off, baroque guitars > and vihuelas (probably renaissance guitars) have problems, in that > the traditional peg goes through only one hole, as opposed to two > holes for a lute. Therefore, the vihuela has a greater tendency to > slip. The pegheds remedied this problem, and I later decided, last > early spring, to have them installed on my 11-course lute. My > 11-course baroque lute partner, Tom Walker, also has a lute that is > an exact match to mine, and he also has pegheds. So, I have > experience with 4 instruments in pegheds, (very limited with Dan > Winheld's 8-course, however). It improved my 11-course instrument > dramatically, with better tuning. This is especially important when > using gut, and all these instruments are entirely strung in gut. > > By the way, Tom'sa lute was just 5 days old (!!) when he received it, > and we had a concert that night. The hall filled with people, and > the heat and humidity went up. The gut strings were so stable with > pegheds, that we had NO TUNING for the entire concert, with exception > of tuning diapasons to a different key!! That in itself is remarkable. > > Plainly put, I love them. They are unbelievably smooth, as in a very > expensive guitar machine. They are adjustable in tension - as with a > traditional peg, push them in and they will be tighter, pull them > out, and looser. Whether in a tight or loose setting, they are > smooth. They never slip, never stick. This summer, with all the > humidity, I had no problems with stuck or slipping pegs they > stay, it pitch, where you put them. Speaking of tuning, they are > geared at 25% as compared to a peg. For example, if one wanted to > tune a half step sharp, one turns the gear 4 times further than when > using a traditional peg. That makes for much more accurate tuning, > as they will not skip too sharp, as compared to a traditional peg. I > find myself tuning more, but very much faster than before, and yes, I > tune sometimes while playing. Tuning with pegheds is actually a joy > now, as I can tune more accurately, and much faster. No more sore > fingers trying to turn stick pegs!! > > We all know what it is like to adjust to a certain pitch... we play > around, get it where we want, let go, and it slips with traditional > pegs! Now, I have trust, so I can quickly adjust, without fear of > slipping; yes, I can no adjust tuning "on the fly" while playing. > > As for weight, Dan Larson has on his web site, comparisons of the > weights of pegs vs. pegheds. Different types of wood make different > weights in pegs. Pegheds are , if my memory serves me correctly, > just 2 grams more, or so. I cannot distinguish any difference in the > weight of the neck or instrument, and the pegheds made, in my > opinion, no difference whatsoever in sound, other than sounding > better because I can now tune more accurately, therefore sounding > better. No, the 11-course lute does have any perception to added weight. > > There are 2 drawbacks: > > 1. When changing a string, because the pegheds do not slip, one has > to un-wind the peghed to get the old string out. This is not a > problem, as the added time (perhaps 7-8 seconds) lost is nothing, > compared to the time saved in fast and accurate tuning. > 2. For those that only want authenticity, pegheds were not used in > old times. Neither was nylgut, nylon, carbon, or perhaps wound > strings for that matter! Many people who saw them on my lute this > summer were fooled, into thinking they were ebony (they are not). > > Thanks for asking..I would put them on all my > instruments, if I could afford to do so. > > > > > At 12:45 PM 8/16/2012, Ken Brodkey wrote: >> Has anyone tried the mechanical pegs made by Pegheds? I have a >> customer who is interested in replacing his traditional pegs with >> these. Any comments are much appreciated. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Ken >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > voice: (218) 728-1202 > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin > > >
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
OK, Nancy asked me to jump in, so I will. The first experience with these pegheds was on Dan Winheld's 8-course lute. I really liked them, a lot. Then, about a year ago, I took my first plunge with these gears (pegheds). I had them installed on my 6-course vihuela, and they immediately solved many, many problems. First off, baroque guitars and vihuelas (probably renaissance guitars) have problems, in that the traditional peg goes through only one hole, as opposed to two holes for a lute. Therefore, the vihuela has a greater tendency to slip. The pegheds remedied this problem, and I later decided, last early spring, to have them installed on my 11-course lute. My 11-course baroque lute partner, Tom Walker, also has a lute that is an exact match to mine, and he also has pegheds. So, I have experience with 4 instruments in pegheds, (very limited with Dan Winheld's 8-course, however). It improved my 11-course instrument dramatically, with better tuning. This is especially important when using gut, and all these instruments are entirely strung in gut. By the way, Tom'sa lute was just 5 days old (!!) when he received it, and we had a concert that night. The hall filled with people, and the heat and humidity went up. The gut strings were so stable with pegheds, that we had NO TUNING for the entire concert, with exception of tuning diapasons to a different key!! That in itself is remarkable. Plainly put, I love them. They are unbelievably smooth, as in a very expensive guitar machine. They are adjustable in tension - as with a traditional peg, push them in and they will be tighter, pull them out, and looser. Whether in a tight or loose setting, they are smooth. They never slip, never stick. This summer, with all the humidity, I had no problems with stuck or slipping pegs they stay, it pitch, where you put them. Speaking of tuning, they are geared at 25% as compared to a peg. For example, if one wanted to tune a half step sharp, one turns the gear 4 times further than when using a traditional peg. That makes for much more accurate tuning, as they will not skip too sharp, as compared to a traditional peg. I find myself tuning more, but very much faster than before, and yes, I tune sometimes while playing. Tuning with pegheds is actually a joy now, as I can tune more accurately, and much faster. No more sore fingers trying to turn stick pegs!! We all know what it is like to adjust to a certain pitch... we play around, get it where we want, let go, and it slips with traditional pegs! Now, I have trust, so I can quickly adjust, without fear of slipping; yes, I can no adjust tuning "on the fly" while playing. As for weight, Dan Larson has on his web site, comparisons of the weights of pegs vs. pegheds. Different types of wood make different weights in pegs. Pegheds are , if my memory serves me correctly, just 2 grams more, or so. I cannot distinguish any difference in the weight of the neck or instrument, and the pegheds made, in my opinion, no difference whatsoever in sound, other than sounding better because I can now tune more accurately, therefore sounding better. No, the 11-course lute does have any perception to added weight. There are 2 drawbacks: 1. When changing a string, because the pegheds do not slip, one has to un-wind the peghed to get the old string out. This is not a problem, as the added time (perhaps 7-8 seconds) lost is nothing, compared to the time saved in fast and accurate tuning. 2. For those that only want authenticity, pegheds were not used in old times. Neither was nylgut, nylon, carbon, or perhaps wound strings for that matter! Many people who saw them on my lute this summer were fooled, into thinking they were ebony (they are not). Thanks for asking..I would put them on all my instruments, if I could afford to do so. At 12:45 PM 8/16/2012, Ken Brodkey wrote: >Has anyone tried the mechanical pegs made by Pegheds? I have a >customer who is interested in replacing his traditional pegs with >these. Any comments are much appreciated. > >Thanks. > >Ken > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
[LUTE] Re: echanical pegs
I spoke with the maker of 'Peghed' mechanical pegs and he said the pegs weigh 6 grams. Most wooden pegs way somewhere between 3 and 3.5 gram or so. For an 8-course lute, using 3.5 grams per wooden peg, this would add about 37.5 grams or just under 1-1/3 ounces. Ken On 8/16/2012 1:28 PM, Louis Aull wrote: I wonder if they weigh a lot more? An 8 course lute with pegs that are an ounce heavier means a pegbox that is pound heavier. Louis Aull -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
On 8/16/2012 2:58 PM, Christopher Wilke wrote: One thing I do not like about traditional pegs is that it makes it virtually impossible to tune on the fly. Not according to E.G. Baron: "A master must be able to tune his instrument instantly while playing, so that it is scarcely heard, even when a peg has slipped." -Historisch-Theoretisch und Practische Untersuchung des Instruments der Lauten, 1727 Of course, Baron was in a literary-musicological fight to the death with Johann Mattheson, but this was during the time of S.L. Weiss et al. I do know that if the luthier is capable, friction pegs can be made that work smoothly enough, fast enough, and securely enough to allow this- if the player is also capable. That is exactly how good the pegs on my vihuela are (far better than the geared things on my otherwise flawless 8 course lute) -but admit I haven't had to put this to the test. Dan On a modern guitar with geared tuners, I have no trouble finding time to reach up and make a micro-adjustment while playing if needed. I would never dare do this on the lute, even though, with far more strings involved, it is much more likely that something will go out of tune. Attempting it is just begging for a slipped peg. Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer [1]www.christopherwilke.com __ From: Arto Wikla [2] To: Ken Brodkey [3] Cc: Lute List [4] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs Hi Ken and all, I have no experience on those, but I certainly do not miss the times of my modern "classical" guitar: you had to turn and turn those "machines". With the original type lute pegs you just slightly turn the pegs up and down - not too much movement - until you hit the correct pitch. Much, much easier! I think the too slow movement on the string tension setting actually _complicates_ the process! Just my experience... Arto On 16/08/12 20:45, Ken Brodkey wrote: > Has anyone tried the mechanical pegs made by Pegheds? I have a customer who is interested in replacing his traditional pegs with these. Any comments are much appreciated. > > Thanks. > > Ken > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- -- References 1. http://www.christopherwilke.com/ 2. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi 3. mailto:kbrod...@pacbell.net 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
One thing I do not like about traditional pegs is that it makes it virtually impossible to tune on the fly. On a modern guitar with geared tuners, I have no trouble finding time to reach up and make a micro-adjustment while playing if needed. I would never dare do this on the lute, even though, with far more strings involved, it is much more likely that something will go out of tune. Attempting it is just begging for a slipped peg. Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com __ From: Arto Wikla To: Ken Brodkey Cc: Lute List Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs Hi Ken and all, I have no experience on those, but I certainly do not miss the times of my modern "classical" guitar: you had to turn and turn those "machines". With the original type lute pegs you just slightly turn the pegs up and down - not too much movement - until you hit the correct pitch. Much, much easier! I think the too slow movement on the string tension setting actually _complicates_ the process! Just my experience... Arto On 16/08/12 20:45, Ken Brodkey wrote: > Has anyone tried the mechanical pegs made by Pegheds? I have a customer who is interested in replacing his traditional pegs with these. Any comments are much appreciated. > > Thanks. > > Ken > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: echanical pegs
I have them on my 8 course lute- 62 cm. Have not weighed them, but I feel no perceptible pegbox weight beyond the usual, which for this size & type of lute is negligible to non-existent. It would, of course, be instructive to weigh one & compare to normal pegs of comparable size made from the usual peg woods- this could be a big concern to theorbists, archlutists, etc. Visually, they are indistinguishable from ebony pegs. Functionally, I do not like them- but I seem to be a minority of one. However, Arto nails one of my objections dead on. Dan On 8/16/2012 1:28 PM, Louis Aull wrote: I wonder if they weigh a lot more? An 8 course lute with pegs that are an ounce heavier means a pegbox that is pound heavier. Louis Aull -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: echanical pegs
Ed Martin needs to add to this discussion. He has a baroque lute with peg heads and was showing it off to everyone in Cleveland. Those pegs look great and work great. He told me they weighed a tiny bit mroe, but he could not notice the difference. Nancy At 01:28 PM 8/16/2012, Louis Aull wrote: I wonder if they weigh a lot more? An 8 course lute with pegs that are an ounce heavier means a pegbox that is pound heavier. Louis Aull -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web sites - [2]www.nancycarlinassociates.com [3]www.groundsanddivisions.info Representing: FROM WALES - Crasdant & Carreg Lafar, FROM ENGLAND - Jez Lowe & Jez Lowe & The Bad Pennies, and now representing EARLY MUSIC - The Venere Lute Quartet, The Good Pennyworths & Morrongiello & Young Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - [4]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ 3. http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/ 4. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
Hi Ken and all, I have no experience on those, but I certainly do not miss the times of my modern "classical" guitar: you had to turn and turn those "machines". With the original type lute pegs you just slightly turn the pegs up and down - not too much movement - until you hit the correct pitch. Much, much easier! I think the too slow movement on the string tension setting actually _complicates_ the process! Just my experience... Arto On 16/08/12 20:45, Ken Brodkey wrote: Has anyone tried the mechanical pegs made by Pegheds? I have a customer who is interested in replacing his traditional pegs with these. Any comments are much appreciated. Thanks. Ken To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: echanical pegs
I wonder if they weigh a lot more? An 8 course lute with pegs that are an ounce heavier means a pegbox that is pound heavier. Louis Aull -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
I have mechanical pegs on my hurdy gurdy and they are fantastic. I'd certainly be willing to try them on a lute -- I'm sure they would work well... - Original Message From: "jsl...@verizon.net" To: kbrod...@pacbell.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thu, August 16, 2012 4:09:07 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs Dear Ken and All, I had Pegheds installed on my Forrester cittern. I gig with the instrument all the time and really needed to speed up the tuning, which is much more finicky than the lute's. The pegs work really well. I don't think they are as necessary for the lute, but I can only assume that they would work just as well. Cheers, Jim On 08/16/12, Ken Brodkey wrote: Has anyone tried the mechanical pegs made by Pegheds? I have a customer who is interested in replacing his traditional pegs with these. Any comments are much appreciated. Thanks. Ken To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/
[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs
Dear Ken and All,
I had Pegheds installed on my Forrester cittern. I gig with the
instrument all the time and really needed to speed up the tuning, which
is much more finicky than the lute's.
The pegs work really well. I don't think they are as necessary for the
lute, but I can only assume that they would work just as well.
Cheers,
Jim
On 08/16/12, Ken Brodkey wrote:
Has anyone tried the mechanical pegs made by Pegheds? I have a customer
who is interested in replacing his traditional pegs with these. Any
comments are much appreciated.
Thanks.
Ken
To get on or off this list see list information at
[1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
References
1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/
[LUTE] Mechanical Pegs
Has anyone tried the mechanical pegs made by Pegheds? I have a customer who is interested in replacing his traditional pegs with these. Any comments are much appreciated. Thanks. Ken To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
I'm not changing my pegs, but I use a peg wrench. Basic peg is OK with me. There are mini torque motors that can adapted if you want power pegs, just touch the peg and the little motor will wind them :) I expect someone will provide autotuning devices eventually, where the instrument tunes itself. Such devices are already being used on other instruments. I don't think you need them on the lute if you have a peg wrench. What would one do, in a concert, if it stopped working? You would have to announce that the fake peg had stopped wworking. I keep a spare peg in my kit in case one breaks. Where I WOULD use geared pegs is on wire strung instruments, which are a pain to tune and don't stay in tune very well. Watch out orpharia, I'm gonna tune you up! dt At 09:53 PM 6/21/2010, you wrote: >I for one would like to go on record and and say that these geared >tuner things are an abomination. Well made normal pegs are just >fine. These geared things seem to be an attempt to compensate for poor pegs. > >Sterling > >- Original Message >From: Eugene C. Braig IV >To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu >Sent: Mon, June 21, 2010 3:28:48 PM >Subject: [LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute > >I remember when these came out, and have read all the comments to follow on >this thread. I'm not entirely certain of the practical usefulness of this >product unless one would want to replace pegs on an existing instrument with >minimal modification to the instrument. > >I seem to recall geared tuners becoming available on cittern kin in the mid >18th c. The worm-gear arrangement typical to guitars was pretty commonplace >by the late 1820s. Building lutes to accommodate guitar-style tuners would >make for a pretty easy modification of most commonly used lute plans and the >tuners in question, in most cases, could be had much more affordably. > >The almost universal application of pegs to lutes seems to have come about >because 1) historic lutes were no longer in widespread use as geared tuners >proliferated and 2) when the early music movement resurrected lutes, geared >tuners were deliberately excluded to make deference to historic practices. > >So, other than replacing pegs without the necessity to substantially modify >existing instruments, how are such tuners as applied to new instruments any >more useful than those already widely used and cheaply available? Is the >appeal strictly in the rather superficial appearance of not being geared? > >I am not at all opposed to geared tuners--using them on guitars from >original 19th-c. pieces to quite modern--but I don't understand the appeal >of so much expense on tuners simply for something that doesn't "look" >geared. I'd just as soon deal with temperamental friction pegs. After all, >many of us are willing to deal with the temperamental issues of at least >partial stringing in gut when more stable materials are more cheaply >available. > >Devil's advocate, >Eugene > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > > Behalf Of David Tayler > > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 3:33 PM > > To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu > > Subject: [LUTE] geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute > > > > At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. > > Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with > > some really cool strings. > > This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I > > mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know > > what I mean. > > I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my > > first lute adventure. > > The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal > > braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. > > You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ > > > > I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! > > dt > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
The difficulties inherent in playing the lute are myriad. Anything that makes tuning easier is worth considering, in my opinion. Some will shun these geared innovations, others will embrace them. Nice to have the choice, no? Ned On Jun 22, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Edward Martin wrote: > Point well taken, Sterling. I for one do not consider them an abomination. > > Wouldn't other modern inventions also be abominations, such as nylon, > nylgut, carbon, KFG, alloy metal wound over nylon floss for strings? > > ed > > > > At 11:53 PM 6/21/2010, sterling price wrote: > > >> I for one would like to go on record and and say that these geared >> tuner things are an abomination. Well made normal pegs are just >> fine. These geared things seem to be an attempt to compensate for poor pegs. >> >> Sterling >> >> - Original Message >> From: Eugene C. Braig IV >> To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu >> Sent: Mon, June 21, 2010 3:28:48 PM >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute >> >> I remember when these came out, and have read all the comments to follow on >> this thread. I'm not entirely certain of the practical usefulness of this >> product unless one would want to replace pegs on an existing instrument with >> minimal modification to the instrument. >> >> I seem to recall geared tuners becoming available on cittern kin in the mid >> 18th c. The worm-gear arrangement typical to guitars was pretty commonplace >> by the late 1820s. Building lutes to accommodate guitar-style tuners would >> make for a pretty easy modification of most commonly used lute plans and the >> tuners in question, in most cases, could be had much more affordably. >> >> The almost universal application of pegs to lutes seems to have come about >> because 1) historic lutes were no longer in widespread use as geared tuners >> proliferated and 2) when the early music movement resurrected lutes, geared >> tuners were deliberately excluded to make deference to historic practices. >> >> So, other than replacing pegs without the necessity to substantially modify >> existing instruments, how are such tuners as applied to new instruments any >> more useful than those already widely used and cheaply available? Is the >> appeal strictly in the rather superficial appearance of not being geared? >> >> I am not at all opposed to geared tuners--using them on guitars from >> original 19th-c. pieces to quite modern--but I don't understand the appeal >> of so much expense on tuners simply for something that doesn't "look" >> geared. I'd just as soon deal with temperamental friction pegs. After all, >> many of us are willing to deal with the temperamental issues of at least >> partial stringing in gut when more stable materials are more cheaply >> available. >> >> Devil's advocate, >> Eugene >> >> >> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On >>> Behalf Of David Tayler >>> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 3:33 PM >>> To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu >>> Subject: [LUTE] geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute >>> >>> At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. >>> Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with >>> some really cool strings. >>> This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I >>> mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know >>> what I mean. >>> I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my >>> first lute adventure. >>> The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal >>> braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. >>> You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ >>> >>> I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! >>> dt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> >> > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > voice: (218) 728-1202 > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > >
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
Point well taken, Sterling. I for one do not consider them an abomination. Wouldn't other modern inventions also be abominations, such as nylon, nylgut, carbon, KFG, alloy metal wound over nylon floss for strings? ed At 11:53 PM 6/21/2010, sterling price wrote: >I for one would like to go on record and and say that these geared >tuner things are an abomination. Well made normal pegs are just >fine. These geared things seem to be an attempt to compensate for poor pegs. > >Sterling > >- Original Message >From: Eugene C. Braig IV >To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu >Sent: Mon, June 21, 2010 3:28:48 PM >Subject: [LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute > >I remember when these came out, and have read all the comments to follow on >this thread. I'm not entirely certain of the practical usefulness of this >product unless one would want to replace pegs on an existing instrument with >minimal modification to the instrument. > >I seem to recall geared tuners becoming available on cittern kin in the mid >18th c. The worm-gear arrangement typical to guitars was pretty commonplace >by the late 1820s. Building lutes to accommodate guitar-style tuners would >make for a pretty easy modification of most commonly used lute plans and the >tuners in question, in most cases, could be had much more affordably. > >The almost universal application of pegs to lutes seems to have come about >because 1) historic lutes were no longer in widespread use as geared tuners >proliferated and 2) when the early music movement resurrected lutes, geared >tuners were deliberately excluded to make deference to historic practices. > >So, other than replacing pegs without the necessity to substantially modify >existing instruments, how are such tuners as applied to new instruments any >more useful than those already widely used and cheaply available? Is the >appeal strictly in the rather superficial appearance of not being geared? > >I am not at all opposed to geared tuners--using them on guitars from >original 19th-c. pieces to quite modern--but I don't understand the appeal >of so much expense on tuners simply for something that doesn't "look" >geared. I'd just as soon deal with temperamental friction pegs. After all, >many of us are willing to deal with the temperamental issues of at least >partial stringing in gut when more stable materials are more cheaply >available. > >Devil's advocate, >Eugene > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > > Behalf Of David Tayler > > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 3:33 PM > > To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu > > Subject: [LUTE] geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute > > > > At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. > > Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with > > some really cool strings. > > This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I > > mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know > > what I mean. > > I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my > > first lute adventure. > > The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal > > braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. > > You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ > > > > I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! > > dt > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs
If only the gear mechanism could be placed inside hand turned pegs. I get more compliments on the swan neck peg box than anything else about any lute. Each boxwood peg is a different size and they gently taper down to the smallest in the 3rd pegbox. Geared pegs would all be one size, and all black. Louis Aull -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
I as well like my simple lute pegs as well. These new gears are very interesting, however! At 09:16 AM 6/22/2010, wolfgang wiehe wrote: >I like my simple lute pegs, I like the simple non-mechanized "1 to 1 >tuning-design" of old instruments. perhaps modern >guitar-tuning-mechanics are a result of 19th century perfection... >w. > > > > > Original-Nachricht > > Datum: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 09:17:23 -0400 > > Von: Edward Mast > > An: Edward Martin > > CC: howard posner , > "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson\'s lute > > > It seems to me that another reason - beyond the weight of guitar-type > > machine tuners - for not using them on lutes would be the space > they require. > > I think they would require that the tuners be more widely spaced and the > > peg box consequently much longer. Though more expensive, the geared pegs > > are far more practical, I think. > > > > Ned > > On Jun 22, 2010, at 5:00 AM, Edward Martin wrote: > > > > > I do not know the exact weight, but the 8-course lute has 15 pegs, or > > > should I say, gears. The lute's neck felt as though it was light, > > > with absolutely no noticeable added weight. > > > > > > > > > At 12:33 AM 6/22/2010, howard posner wrote: > > >> Weight is a major issue, especially when you're putting 24 of > > >> something on one end of your instrument. So the increased weight of > > >> a standard machine tuning head is usually cited as the reason for > > >> not using them on lutes, which are much lighter than 19th-century > > >> guitars. I have never personally weighed machine heads and pegs, so > > >> I can't say how significant the added weight would actually be. > > >> > > >> On Jun 21, 2010, at 2:28 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > > >> > > >>> The almost universal application of pegs to lutes seems to have come > > about > > >>> because 1) historic lutes were no longer in widespread use as geared > > tuners > > >>> proliferated and 2) when the early music movement resurrected lutes, > > geared > > >>> tuners were deliberately excluded to make deference to historic > > practices. > > >>> > > >>> So, other than replacing pegs without the necessity to substantially > > modify > > >>> existing instruments, how are such tuners as applied to new > > instruments any > > >>> more useful than those already widely used and cheaply available? Is > > the > > >>> appeal strictly in the rather superficial appearance of not being > > geared? > > >>> > > >>> I am not at all opposed to geared tuners--using them on guitars from > > >>> original 19th-c. pieces to quite modern--but I don't understand the > > appeal > > >>> of so much expense on tuners simply for something that doesn't "look" > > >>> geared. I'd just as soon deal with temperamental friction > > >> pegs. After all, > > >>> many of us are willing to deal with the temperamental issues of at > > least > > >>> partial stringing in gut when more stable materials are more cheaply > > >>> available. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> To get on or off this list see list information at > > >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Edward Martin > > > 2817 East 2nd Street > > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > > > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > > > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > > > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
I like my simple lute pegs, I like the simple non-mechanized "1 to 1 tuning-design" of old instruments. perhaps modern guitar-tuning-mechanics are a result of 19th century perfection... w. Original-Nachricht > Datum: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 09:17:23 -0400 > Von: Edward Mast > An: Edward Martin > CC: howard posner , "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson\'s lute > It seems to me that another reason - beyond the weight of guitar-type > machine tuners - for not using them on lutes would be the space they require. > I think they would require that the tuners be more widely spaced and the > peg box consequently much longer. Though more expensive, the geared pegs > are far more practical, I think. > > Ned > On Jun 22, 2010, at 5:00 AM, Edward Martin wrote: > > > I do not know the exact weight, but the 8-course lute has 15 pegs, or > > should I say, gears. The lute's neck felt as though it was light, > > with absolutely no noticeable added weight. > > > > > > At 12:33 AM 6/22/2010, howard posner wrote: > >> Weight is a major issue, especially when you're putting 24 of > >> something on one end of your instrument. So the increased weight of > >> a standard machine tuning head is usually cited as the reason for > >> not using them on lutes, which are much lighter than 19th-century > >> guitars. I have never personally weighed machine heads and pegs, so > >> I can't say how significant the added weight would actually be. > >> > >> On Jun 21, 2010, at 2:28 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > >> > >>> The almost universal application of pegs to lutes seems to have come > about > >>> because 1) historic lutes were no longer in widespread use as geared > tuners > >>> proliferated and 2) when the early music movement resurrected lutes, > geared > >>> tuners were deliberately excluded to make deference to historic > practices. > >>> > >>> So, other than replacing pegs without the necessity to substantially > modify > >>> existing instruments, how are such tuners as applied to new > instruments any > >>> more useful than those already widely used and cheaply available? Is > the > >>> appeal strictly in the rather superficial appearance of not being > geared? > >>> > >>> I am not at all opposed to geared tuners--using them on guitars from > >>> original 19th-c. pieces to quite modern--but I don't understand the > appeal > >>> of so much expense on tuners simply for something that doesn't "look" > >>> geared. I'd just as soon deal with temperamental friction > >> pegs. After all, > >>> many of us are willing to deal with the temperamental issues of at > least > >>> partial stringing in gut when more stable materials are more cheaply > >>> available. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > Edward Martin > > 2817 East 2nd Street > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > > > > > > >
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
I'm sorry, Ed - I didn't make myself clear. I was answering a post in which (if I understood the writer correctly) it was said that the type of geared tuners found on guitars (NOT the geared pegs we've been discussing) could more inexpensively be used on lutes. These are what I think take more space than the geared pegs. I do understand that the geared pegs take the same room as traditional pegs. Ned On Jun 22, 2010, at 10:07 AM, Edward Martin wrote: > I do not understand what you mean, as they require no more space > that traditional pegs. The "lute" gears are not pictured, as they > are thinner than the violin "pegs" one sees. > > > > At 08:17 AM 6/22/2010, Edward Mast wrote: >> It seems to me that another reason - beyond the weight of >> guitar-type machine tuners - for not using them on lutes would be >> the space they require. I think they would require that the >> tuners be more widely spaced and the peg box consequently much >> longer. Though more expensive, the geared pegs are far more >> practical, I think. >> >> Ned >> On Jun 22, 2010, at 5:00 AM, Edward Martin wrote: >> >>> I do not know the exact weight, but the 8-course lute has 15 pegs, or >>> should I say, gears. The lute's neck felt as though it was light, >>> with absolutely no noticeable added weight. >>> >>> >>> At 12:33 AM 6/22/2010, howard posner wrote: >>>> Weight is a major issue, especially when you're putting 24 of >>>> something on one end of your instrument. So the increased weight of >>>> a standard machine tuning head is usually cited as the reason for >>>> not using them on lutes, which are much lighter than 19th-century >>>> guitars. I have never personally weighed machine heads and pegs, so >>>> I can't say how significant the added weight would actually be. >>>> >>>> On Jun 21, 2010, at 2:28 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: >>>> >>>>> The almost universal application of pegs to lutes seems to have >> come about >>>>> because 1) historic lutes were no longer in widespread use as >> geared tuners >>>>> proliferated and 2) when the early music movement resurrected >> lutes, geared >>>>> tuners were deliberately excluded to make deference to historic >> practices. >>>>> >>>>> So, other than replacing pegs without the necessity to >> substantially modify >>>>> existing instruments, how are such tuners as applied to new >> instruments any >>>>> more useful than those already widely used and cheaply available? Is the >>>>> appeal strictly in the rather superficial appearance of not being geared? >>>>> >>>>> I am not at all opposed to geared tuners--using them on guitars from >>>>> original 19th-c. pieces to quite modern--but I don't understand >> the appeal >>>>> of so much expense on tuners simply for something that doesn't "look" >>>>> geared. I'd just as soon deal with temperamental friction >>>> pegs. After all, >>>>> many of us are willing to deal with the temperamental issues of at least >>>>> partial stringing in gut when more stable materials are more cheaply >>>>> available. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> >>> >>> >>> Edward Martin >>> 2817 East 2nd Street >>> Duluth, Minnesota 55812 >>> e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com >>> voice: (218) 728-1202 >>> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name >>> http://www.myspace.com/edslute >>> >>> >>> > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > voice: (218) 728-1202 > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > >
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
I do not understand what you mean, as they require no more space that traditional pegs. The "lute" gears are not pictured, as they are thinner than the violin "pegs" one sees. At 08:17 AM 6/22/2010, Edward Mast wrote: >It seems to me that another reason - beyond the weight of >guitar-type machine tuners - for not using them on lutes would be >the space they require. I think they would require that the >tuners be more widely spaced and the peg box consequently much >longer. Though more expensive, the geared pegs are far more >practical, I think. > >Ned >On Jun 22, 2010, at 5:00 AM, Edward Martin wrote: > > > I do not know the exact weight, but the 8-course lute has 15 pegs, or > > should I say, gears. The lute's neck felt as though it was light, > > with absolutely no noticeable added weight. > > > > > > At 12:33 AM 6/22/2010, howard posner wrote: > >> Weight is a major issue, especially when you're putting 24 of > >> something on one end of your instrument. So the increased weight of > >> a standard machine tuning head is usually cited as the reason for > >> not using them on lutes, which are much lighter than 19th-century > >> guitars. I have never personally weighed machine heads and pegs, so > >> I can't say how significant the added weight would actually be. > >> > >> On Jun 21, 2010, at 2:28 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > >> > >>> The almost universal application of pegs to lutes seems to have > come about > >>> because 1) historic lutes were no longer in widespread use as > geared tuners > >>> proliferated and 2) when the early music movement resurrected > lutes, geared > >>> tuners were deliberately excluded to make deference to historic > practices. > >>> > >>> So, other than replacing pegs without the necessity to > substantially modify > >>> existing instruments, how are such tuners as applied to new > instruments any > >>> more useful than those already widely used and cheaply available? Is the > >>> appeal strictly in the rather superficial appearance of not being geared? > >>> > >>> I am not at all opposed to geared tuners--using them on guitars from > >>> original 19th-c. pieces to quite modern--but I don't understand > the appeal > >>> of so much expense on tuners simply for something that doesn't "look" > >>> geared. I'd just as soon deal with temperamental friction > >> pegs. After all, > >>> many of us are willing to deal with the temperamental issues of at least > >>> partial stringing in gut when more stable materials are more cheaply > >>> available. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > Edward Martin > > 2817 East 2nd Street > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > > > > > Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
It seems to me that another reason - beyond the weight of guitar-type machine tuners - for not using them on lutes would be the space they require. I think they would require that the tuners be more widely spaced and the peg box consequently much longer. Though more expensive, the geared pegs are far more practical, I think. Ned On Jun 22, 2010, at 5:00 AM, Edward Martin wrote: > I do not know the exact weight, but the 8-course lute has 15 pegs, or > should I say, gears. The lute's neck felt as though it was light, > with absolutely no noticeable added weight. > > > At 12:33 AM 6/22/2010, howard posner wrote: >> Weight is a major issue, especially when you're putting 24 of >> something on one end of your instrument. So the increased weight of >> a standard machine tuning head is usually cited as the reason for >> not using them on lutes, which are much lighter than 19th-century >> guitars. I have never personally weighed machine heads and pegs, so >> I can't say how significant the added weight would actually be. >> >> On Jun 21, 2010, at 2:28 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: >> >>> The almost universal application of pegs to lutes seems to have come about >>> because 1) historic lutes were no longer in widespread use as geared tuners >>> proliferated and 2) when the early music movement resurrected lutes, geared >>> tuners were deliberately excluded to make deference to historic practices. >>> >>> So, other than replacing pegs without the necessity to substantially modify >>> existing instruments, how are such tuners as applied to new instruments any >>> more useful than those already widely used and cheaply available? Is the >>> appeal strictly in the rather superficial appearance of not being geared? >>> >>> I am not at all opposed to geared tuners--using them on guitars from >>> original 19th-c. pieces to quite modern--but I don't understand the appeal >>> of so much expense on tuners simply for something that doesn't "look" >>> geared. I'd just as soon deal with temperamental friction >> pegs. After all, >>> many of us are willing to deal with the temperamental issues of at least >>> partial stringing in gut when more stable materials are more cheaply >>> available. >> >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > voice: (218) 728-1202 > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > >
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
I do not know the exact weight, but the 8-course lute has 15 pegs, or should I say, gears. The lute's neck felt as though it was light, with absolutely no noticeable added weight. At 12:33 AM 6/22/2010, howard posner wrote: >Weight is a major issue, especially when you're putting 24 of >something on one end of your instrument. So the increased weight of >a standard machine tuning head is usually cited as the reason for >not using them on lutes, which are much lighter than 19th-century >guitars. I have never personally weighed machine heads and pegs, so >I can't say how significant the added weight would actually be. > >On Jun 21, 2010, at 2:28 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > > > The almost universal application of pegs to lutes seems to have come about > > because 1) historic lutes were no longer in widespread use as geared tuners > > proliferated and 2) when the early music movement resurrected lutes, geared > > tuners were deliberately excluded to make deference to historic practices. > > > > So, other than replacing pegs without the necessity to substantially modify > > existing instruments, how are such tuners as applied to new instruments any > > more useful than those already widely used and cheaply available? Is the > > appeal strictly in the rather superficial appearance of not being geared? > > > > I am not at all opposed to geared tuners--using them on guitars from > > original 19th-c. pieces to quite modern--but I don't understand the appeal > > of so much expense on tuners simply for something that doesn't "look" > > geared. I'd just as soon deal with temperamental friction > pegs. After all, > > many of us are willing to deal with the temperamental issues of at least > > partial stringing in gut when more stable materials are more cheaply > > available. > > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
Weight is a major issue, especially when you're putting 24 of something on one end of your instrument. So the increased weight of a standard machine tuning head is usually cited as the reason for not using them on lutes, which are much lighter than 19th-century guitars. I have never personally weighed machine heads and pegs, so I can't say how significant the added weight would actually be. On Jun 21, 2010, at 2:28 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > The almost universal application of pegs to lutes seems to have come about > because 1) historic lutes were no longer in widespread use as geared tuners > proliferated and 2) when the early music movement resurrected lutes, geared > tuners were deliberately excluded to make deference to historic practices. > > So, other than replacing pegs without the necessity to substantially modify > existing instruments, how are such tuners as applied to new instruments any > more useful than those already widely used and cheaply available? Is the > appeal strictly in the rather superficial appearance of not being geared? > > I am not at all opposed to geared tuners--using them on guitars from > original 19th-c. pieces to quite modern--but I don't understand the appeal > of so much expense on tuners simply for something that doesn't "look" > geared. I'd just as soon deal with temperamental friction pegs. After all, > many of us are willing to deal with the temperamental issues of at least > partial stringing in gut when more stable materials are more cheaply > available. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
I for one would like to go on record and and say that these geared tuner things are an abomination. Well made normal pegs are just fine. These geared things seem to be an attempt to compensate for poor pegs. Sterling - Original Message From: Eugene C. Braig IV To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, June 21, 2010 3:28:48 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute I remember when these came out, and have read all the comments to follow on this thread. I'm not entirely certain of the practical usefulness of this product unless one would want to replace pegs on an existing instrument with minimal modification to the instrument. I seem to recall geared tuners becoming available on cittern kin in the mid 18th c. The worm-gear arrangement typical to guitars was pretty commonplace by the late 1820s. Building lutes to accommodate guitar-style tuners would make for a pretty easy modification of most commonly used lute plans and the tuners in question, in most cases, could be had much more affordably. The almost universal application of pegs to lutes seems to have come about because 1) historic lutes were no longer in widespread use as geared tuners proliferated and 2) when the early music movement resurrected lutes, geared tuners were deliberately excluded to make deference to historic practices. So, other than replacing pegs without the necessity to substantially modify existing instruments, how are such tuners as applied to new instruments any more useful than those already widely used and cheaply available? Is the appeal strictly in the rather superficial appearance of not being geared? I am not at all opposed to geared tuners--using them on guitars from original 19th-c. pieces to quite modern--but I don't understand the appeal of so much expense on tuners simply for something that doesn't "look" geared. I'd just as soon deal with temperamental friction pegs. After all, many of us are willing to deal with the temperamental issues of at least partial stringing in gut when more stable materials are more cheaply available. Devil's advocate, Eugene > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of David Tayler > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 3:33 PM > To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute > > At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. > Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with > some really cool strings. > This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I > mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know > what I mean. > I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my > first lute adventure. > The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal > braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. > You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr > http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ > > I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! > dt > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
I remember when these came out, and have read all the comments to follow on this thread. I'm not entirely certain of the practical usefulness of this product unless one would want to replace pegs on an existing instrument with minimal modification to the instrument. I seem to recall geared tuners becoming available on cittern kin in the mid 18th c. The worm-gear arrangement typical to guitars was pretty commonplace by the late 1820s. Building lutes to accommodate guitar-style tuners would make for a pretty easy modification of most commonly used lute plans and the tuners in question, in most cases, could be had much more affordably. The almost universal application of pegs to lutes seems to have come about because 1) historic lutes were no longer in widespread use as geared tuners proliferated and 2) when the early music movement resurrected lutes, geared tuners were deliberately excluded to make deference to historic practices. So, other than replacing pegs without the necessity to substantially modify existing instruments, how are such tuners as applied to new instruments any more useful than those already widely used and cheaply available? Is the appeal strictly in the rather superficial appearance of not being geared? I am not at all opposed to geared tuners--using them on guitars from original 19th-c. pieces to quite modern--but I don't understand the appeal of so much expense on tuners simply for something that doesn't "look" geared. I'd just as soon deal with temperamental friction pegs. After all, many of us are willing to deal with the temperamental issues of at least partial stringing in gut when more stable materials are more cheaply available. Devil's advocate, Eugene > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of David Tayler > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 3:33 PM > To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute > > At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. > Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with > some really cool strings. > This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I > mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know > what I mean. > I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my > first lute adventure. > The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal > braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. > You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr > http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ > > I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! > dt > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
These do sound like a positive, worthwhile innovation. I'd have to think about the risks involved with shipping my lute to a maker to have them installed, though. Ned On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: > At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. > Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with > some really cool strings. > This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I > mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know > what I mean. > I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my > first lute adventure. > The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal > braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. > You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr > http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ > > I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! > dt > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
For sure (I think) one of the big advantages to gut is the lack of binding at the nut. Once you get to the wound synthetic lower strings, binding seems inevitable. At least on every instrument I've owned. Ned On Jun 21, 2010, at 12:38 AM, Edward Martin wrote: > Actually, this instrument is in all gut, including the treble, and > the strings do not stick on the nut. I think he takes care in the > polishing of it. > > > > At 11:09 PM 6/20/2010, Christopher Stetson wrote: >> Hmmm... nice and oily, and the strings would cut their own grooves... >> >> C. >>>>> David Tayler 6/20/2010 9:55 PM >>> >> It did not stick on the nut--I think he used a real nut, like a Brazil >> nut. >> d >> At 06:23 PM 6/20/2010, you wrote: >>> It can be on many lutes, but not on this particular nut. >>> >>> ed >>> >>> At 08:16 PM 6/20/2010, Miles Dempster wrote: >>> >>>> But isn't there still the problem of the strings sticking on the >> nut? >>>> >>>> Miles >>>> >>>> On 2010-06-20, at 9:07 PM, Edward Martin wrote: >>>> >>>>> I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday. It is a very, >> very >>>>> nice Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to >> call >>>>> them, are very nice, very interesting. They are, as DT says, >> smooth >>>>> as butter, and they will never slip, as pegs do. They are plain, >> but >>>>> very attractive.. >>>>> >>>>> I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around $30 >>>>> each. But, what an improvement over friction pegs! Not only can >> one >>>>> tune more accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e., >>>>> slipping. Yes, they do need to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan >>>>> informs me they are quite easy to put in. >>>>> >>>>> The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a while, >> to >>>>> try them on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was too >>>>> much. But, There is no noticeable difference in weight that I >> could >>>>> discern as compared to pegs, and the sound is not affected in any >> way. >>>>> >>>>> I am most impressed. I have ordered a set for my vihuela. >>>>> >>>>> ed >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At 05:21 PM 6/20/2010, Edward Mast wrote: >>>>>> I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and a >>>>>> violinist - who does. They like them a lot. My questions would >> be: >>>>>> 1) How much would each peg for a lute cost? >>>>>> 2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the >> player >>>>>> do it him/herself? >>>>>> 3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden peg >>>>>> (?), would geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the >> peg >>>>>> box? Enough to change the balance of the instrument? >>>>>> >>>>>> Ned >>>>>> On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey >> lute. >>>>>>> Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut >> strung with >>>>>>> some really cool strings. >>>>>>> This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. >> I >>>>>>> mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you >> know >>>>>>> what I mean. >>>>>>> I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was >> my >>>>>>> first lute adventure. >>>>>>> The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an >> internal >>>>>>> braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the >> historical term. >>>>>>> You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr >>>>>>> >> [1]http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! >>>&
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs
For more information, the website for these pegs: http://www.planetarypegs.com/peg_page_01.html -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
To All: There was an article in the Lute Society's Lute News last year detailing a person's experience buying and having geared pegs installed by a luthier with very positive results. I'm sure someone with a better memory and a better filing system can point out which issue of Lute News featured the article. Ron Andrico www.mignarda.com > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 08:08:49 -0500 > To: nedma...@aol.com; e...@gamutstrings.com > CC: vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: e...@gamutstrings.com > Subject: [LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute > > Yes, they are permanently installed. > > ed > > > > At 07:52 AM 6/21/2010, Edward Mast wrote: > >I seem to remember that the geared pegs for violins, cellos etc. are > >glued in place to prevent slipping of the peg itself (of course the > >gears don't slip). Is this necessary with the lute pegs? If not, > >what keeps the pegs themselves (not the gears) from slipping in dry weather? > > > >Ned > >On Jun 20, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Edward Martin wrote: > > > > > I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday. It is a very, > > very nice Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to > > call them, are very nice, very interesting. They are, as DT says, > > smooth as butter, and they will never slip, as pegs do. They are > > plain, but very attractive.. > > > > > > I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around $30 > > each. But, what an improvement over friction pegs! Not only can > > one tune more accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e., > > slipping. Yes, they do need to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan > > informs me they are quite easy to put in. > > > > > > The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a while, > > to try them on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was too > > much. But, There is no noticeable difference in weight that I > > could discern as compared to pegs, and the sound is not affected in any way. > > > > > > I am most impressed. I have ordered a set for my vihuela. > > > > > > ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 05:21 PM 6/20/2010, Edward Mast wrote: > > >> I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and a > > violinist - who does. They like them a lot. My questions would be: > > >> 1) How much would each peg for a lute cost? > > >> 2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the > > player do it him/herself? > > >> 3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden peg > > (?), would geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the > > peg box? Enough to change the balance of the instrument? > > >> > > >> Ned > > >> On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: > > >> > > >> > At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. > > >> > Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with > > >> > some really cool strings. > > >> > This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I > > >> > mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know > > >> > what I mean. > > >> > I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my > > >> > first lute adventure. > > >> > The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal > > >> > braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. > > >> > You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr > > >> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ > > >> > > > >> > I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! > > >> > dt > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > To get on or off this list see list information at > > >> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Edward Martin > > > 2817 East 2nd Street > > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > > > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > > > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > > > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > > > > > > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > voice: (218) 728-1202 > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > > __ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. [1]Learn more. -- References 1. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
Yes, they are permanently installed. ed At 07:52 AM 6/21/2010, Edward Mast wrote: >I seem to remember that the geared pegs for violins, cellos etc. are >glued in place to prevent slipping of the peg itself (of course the >gears don't slip). Is this necessary with the lute pegs? If not, >what keeps the pegs themselves (not the gears) from slipping in dry weather? > >Ned >On Jun 20, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Edward Martin wrote: > > > I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday. It is a very, > very nice Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to > call them, are very nice, very interesting. They are, as DT says, > smooth as butter, and they will never slip, as pegs do. They are > plain, but very attractive.. > > > > I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around $30 > each. But, what an improvement over friction pegs! Not only can > one tune more accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e., > slipping. Yes, they do need to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan > informs me they are quite easy to put in. > > > > The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a while, > to try them on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was too > much. But, There is no noticeable difference in weight that I > could discern as compared to pegs, and the sound is not affected in any way. > > > > I am most impressed. I have ordered a set for my vihuela. > > > > ed > > > > > > > > > > > > At 05:21 PM 6/20/2010, Edward Mast wrote: > >> I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and a > violinist - who does. They like them a lot. My questions would be: > >> 1) How much would each peg for a lute cost? > >> 2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the > player do it him/herself? > >> 3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden peg > (?), would geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the > peg box? Enough to change the balance of the instrument? > >> > >> Ned > >> On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: > >> > >> > At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. > >> > Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with > >> > some really cool strings. > >> > This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I > >> > mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know > >> > what I mean. > >> > I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my > >> > first lute adventure. > >> > The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal > >> > braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. > >> > You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr > >> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ > >> > > >> > I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! > >> > dt > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > To get on or off this list see list information at > >> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > Edward Martin > > 2817 East 2nd Street > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > > > Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
I seem to remember that the geared pegs for violins, cellos etc. are glued in place to prevent slipping of the peg itself (of course the gears don't slip). Is this necessary with the lute pegs? If not, what keeps the pegs themselves (not the gears) from slipping in dry weather? Ned On Jun 20, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Edward Martin wrote: > I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday. It is a very, very nice > Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to call them, are very > nice, very interesting. They are, as DT says, smooth as butter, and they > will never slip, as pegs do. They are plain, but very attractive.. > > I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around $30 each. But, > what an improvement over friction pegs! Not only can one tune more > accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e., slipping. Yes, they do need > to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan informs me they are quite easy to put in. > > The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a while, to try them > on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was too much. But, There is > no noticeable difference in weight that I could discern as compared to pegs, > and the sound is not affected in any way. > > I am most impressed. I have ordered a set for my vihuela. > > ed > > > > > > At 05:21 PM 6/20/2010, Edward Mast wrote: >> I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and a violinist - >> who does. They like them a lot. My questions would be: >> 1) How much would each peg for a lute cost? >> 2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the player do it >> him/herself? >> 3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden peg (?), would >> geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the peg box? Enough to >> change the balance of the instrument? >> >> Ned >> On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: >> >> > At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. >> > Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with >> > some really cool strings. >> > This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I >> > mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know >> > what I mean. >> > I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my >> > first lute adventure. >> > The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal >> > braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. >> > You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr >> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ >> > >> > I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! >> > dt >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > To get on or off this list see list information at >> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > voice: (218) 728-1202 > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > >
[LUTE] Re Re: geared pegs and [Wolfgang's peg turner]
Dear Martin, Martyn, and all
Thank you for your suggestions. I do think it was due to a
difference in humidity, so perhaps the lamp might have worked, perhaps
also helping to soften the peg paste. I will try that next time.
The peg seemed to be blocked which ever way I turned it by hand; I even
tried using a special plastic material for undoing jam-jars, which puts
no leverage, but just a little more grip, and it still didn't move; but
very slow, patient and gentle pressure with Wolfgang's turner did
finally make it begin to move. I only used the tips of my fingers to
hold the turner, so I don't think I was putting undue strain, although
of course I can't be sure of that.
I should add, that this is not the purpose of the peg-turner, rather,
it results in less overshoot when you tune-up or down (as with the
geared peg). Although, I am sure the true geared peg is much more
accurate.
I had recently heard of someone turning a peg of someone else's Michael
Lowe lute, using a pair of pliers! Although, I haven't seen it, I was
told the result was horrifying, with the obvious damage that resulted
to the peg.
I was very much aware of that while delocking my lute's pegs, and in
spite of frustration, I refrained from reaching for the tool chest. I
did feel like giving a gentle tap to the inner point of the peg (with
the peg-hammer?), to push it out, but fortunately did refrain from
doing that as well ...
Thanks again
Anthony
Message d'origine
>De : "Martyn Hodgson"
>A : "Lute List" ;
> "Martin Shepherd"
>Objet : [LUTE] Re: Re Re: geared pegs and [Wolfgang's peg turner]
>Date : 21/06/2010 12:11:25 CEST
>
>
> Also, somewhat contra-intuitive, try tightening the string first -
not
> releasing it - to break the static friction and any residual wedging
of
> peg paste. Then release the tension.
>
> MH
> --- On Mon, 21/6/10, Martin Shepherd wrote:
>
> From: Martin Shepherd
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Re Re: geared pegs and [Wolfgang's peg turner]
> To: "Lute List"
> Date: Monday, 21 June, 2010, 10:59
>
> Dear Anthony and All,
> If your pegs stick because they have swollen or the pegbox has
shrunk,
> try putting the pegbox near a source of gentle heat such as a desk
lamp
> - no need for it to be hot, just slightly warmer than the
> surroundings. That will reduce the humidity and may take you back to
> where you started. Using force without trying to modify the humidity
> is not recommended!
> Best wishes,
> Martin
> Anthony Hind wrote:
> > I love the appearence and feel of the non-geared pegs on my
> Stephen
> > Gottlieb 11c Warwick. A number of lutenists who tried this lute
> told me
> > they were the best pegs thay had used. Nevertheless, following a
> three
> > week stay in very humid Normandy, I returned to relatively dry
> Paris,
> > and found the majority of my pegs completely stuck.
> > I was quite unable to move them by hand and even had great
> difficulty
> > in moving them at all, using a very handy wooden tool made by
> Wolfgang
> > Fruh, here in Paris. I was terrified that either a peg would
> break, or
> > the peg-box would crack, but finally they all did move, without
> visible
> > damage.
> > Nevertheless, if it wasn't for the fact that Stephen's pegs are
> > beautiful, and Wolfgang's peg mover does bring a sort of geared
> control
> > to them, I would gladly adopt geared pegs, just to avoid another
> > similar episode, after my next trip back to Normandy.
> > Initially, I was very doubtful about Wolfgang's peg turner,
> fearing the
> > added force could bring damage, but it does seem to work very well
> > indeed, and gives more precision and accuracy than just using
> unaided
> > hand-force, which almost always leads to overshoot.
> > It is definitely worth trying one of these, they look good and
> seem to
> > work well (and it doesn't slip off the peg, as some similar tools
> are
> > said to do); although I will not accept responsibility for any
> broken
> > peg-boxes ...
> > Anthony
> > Message d'origine
> > >De : "David Tayler" <[1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net>
> > >A : "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" <[2]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > >Objet : ***SPAM***[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
> > >Date : 21/06/2010 03:55:22
[LUTE] Re: Re Re: geared pegs and [Wolfgang's peg turner]
Also, somewhat contra-intuitive, try tightening the string first - not releasing it - to break the static friction and any residual wedging of peg paste. Then release the tension. MH --- On Mon, 21/6/10, Martin Shepherd wrote: From: Martin Shepherd Subject: [LUTE] Re: Re Re: geared pegs and [Wolfgang's peg turner] To: "Lute List" Date: Monday, 21 June, 2010, 10:59 Dear Anthony and All, If your pegs stick because they have swollen or the pegbox has shrunk, try putting the pegbox near a source of gentle heat such as a desk lamp - no need for it to be hot, just slightly warmer than the surroundings. That will reduce the humidity and may take you back to where you started. Using force without trying to modify the humidity is not recommended! Best wishes, Martin Anthony Hind wrote: >I love the appearence and feel of the non-geared pegs on my Stephen >Gottlieb 11c Warwick. A number of lutenists who tried this lute told me > they were the best pegs thay had used. Nevertheless, following a three >week stay in very humid Normandy, I returned to relatively dry Paris, > and found the majority of my pegs completely stuck. >I was quite unable to move them by hand and even had great difficulty >in moving them at all, using a very handy wooden tool made by Wolfgang >Fruh, here in Paris. I was terrified that either a peg would break, or >the peg-box would crack, but finally they all did move, without visible >damage. >Nevertheless, if it wasn't for the fact that Stephen's pegs are >beautiful, and Wolfgang's peg mover does bring a sort of geared control >to them, I would gladly adopt geared pegs, just to avoid another >similar episode, after my next trip back to Normandy. >Initially, I was very doubtful about Wolfgang's peg turner, fearing the >added force could bring damage, but it does seem to work very well >indeed, and gives more precision and accuracy than just using unaided >hand-force, which almost always leads to overshoot. >It is definitely worth trying one of these, they look good and seem to >work well (and it doesn't slip off the peg, as some similar tools are >said to do); although I will not accept responsibility for any broken >peg-boxes ... >Anthony > Message d'origine >>De : "David Tayler" <[1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net> >>A : "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" <[2]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> >>Objet : ***SPAM***[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute >>Date : 21/06/2010 03:55:22 CEST >> >>It did not stick on the nut--I think he used a real nut, like a Brazil >nut. >> d >> >> At 06:23 PM 6/20/2010, you wrote: >> >It can be on many lutes, but not on this particular nut. >> > >> >ed >> > >> >At 08:16 PM 6/20/2010, Miles Dempster wrote: >> > >> > >But isn't there still the problem of the strings sticking on the >nut? >> > > >> > >Miles >> > > >> > >On 2010-06-20, at 9:07 PM, Edward Martin wrote: >> > > >> > > > I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday. It is a very, >very >> > > > nice Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to >call > > > > > them, are very nice, very interesting. They are, as DT says, >smooth >> > > > as butter, and they will never slip, as pegs do. They are >plain, but >> > > > very attractive.. >> > > > >> > > > I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around >$30 >> > > > each. But, what an improvement over friction pegs! Not only can >one >> > > > tune more accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e., >> > > > slipping. Yes, they do need to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan >> > > > informs me they are quite easy to put in. >> > > > >> > > > The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a >while, to >> > > > try them on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was >too >> > > > much. But, There is no noticeable difference in weig
[LUTE] Re: Re Re: geared pegs and [Wolfgang's peg turner]
Dear Anthony and All,
If your pegs stick because they have swollen or the pegbox has shrunk,
try putting the pegbox near a source of gentle heat such as a desk lamp
- no need for it to be hot, just slightly warmer than the surroundings.
That will reduce the humidity and may take you back to where you
started. Using force without trying to modify the humidity is not
recommended!
Best wishes,
Martin
Anthony Hind wrote:
I love the appearence and feel of the non-geared pegs on my Stephen
Gottlieb 11c Warwick. A number of lutenists who tried this lute told me
they were the best pegs thay had used. Nevertheless, following a three
week stay in very humid Normandy, I returned to relatively dry Paris,
and found the majority of my pegs completely stuck.
I was quite unable to move them by hand and even had great difficulty
in moving them at all, using a very handy wooden tool made by Wolfgang
Fruh, here in Paris. I was terrified that either a peg would break, or
the peg-box would crack, but finally they all did move, without visible
damage.
Nevertheless, if it wasn't for the fact that Stephen's pegs are
beautiful, and Wolfgang's peg mover does bring a sort of geared control
to them, I would gladly adopt geared pegs, just to avoid another
similar episode, after my next trip back to Normandy.
Initially, I was very doubtful about Wolfgang's peg turner, fearing the
added force could bring damage, but it does seem to work very well
indeed, and gives more precision and accuracy than just using unaided
hand-force, which almost always leads to overshoot.
It is definitely worth trying one of these, they look good and seem to
work well (and it doesn't slip off the peg, as some similar tools are
said to do); although I will not accept responsibility for any broken
peg-boxes ...
Anthony
Message d'origine
>De : "David Tayler"
>A : "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu"
>Objet : ***SPAM***[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
>Date : 21/06/2010 03:55:22 CEST
>
>It did not stick on the nut--I think he used a real nut, like a Brazil
nut.
> d
>
> At 06:23 PM 6/20/2010, you wrote:
> >It can be on many lutes, but not on this particular nut.
> >
> >ed
> >
> >At 08:16 PM 6/20/2010, Miles Dempster wrote:
> >
> > >But isn't there still the problem of the strings sticking on the
nut?
> > >
> > >Miles
> > >
> > >On 2010-06-20, at 9:07 PM, Edward Martin wrote:
> > >
> > > > I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday. It is a very,
very
> > > > nice Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to
call
> > > > them, are very nice, very interesting. They are, as DT says,
smooth
> > > > as butter, and they will never slip, as pegs do. They are
plain, but
> > > > very attractive..
> > > >
> > > > I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around
$30
> > > > each. But, what an improvement over friction pegs! Not only can
one
> > > > tune more accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e.,
> > > > slipping. Yes, they do need to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan
> > > > informs me they are quite easy to put in.
> > > >
> > > > The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a
while, to
> > > > try them on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was
too
> > > > much. But, There is no noticeable difference in weight that I
could
> > > > discern as compared to pegs, and the sound is not affected in
any
> way.
> > > >
> > > > I am most impressed. I have ordered a set for my vihuela.
> > > >
> > > > ed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 05:21 PM 6/20/2010, Edward Mast wrote:
> > > >> I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and
a
> > > >> violinist - who does. They like them a lot. My questions would
be:
> > > >> 1) How much would each peg for a lute cost?
> > > >> 2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the
player
> > > >> do it him/herself?
> > > >> 3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden
peg
> > > >> (?), would geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the
peg
> > > >> box? Enough to change the balance of the in
[LUTE] Re: Re Re: geared pegs and [Wolfgang's peg turner]
I love the appearence and feel of the non-geared pegs on my Stephen
Gottlieb 11c Warwick. A number of lutenists who tried this lute told me
they were the best pegs thay had used. Nevertheless, following a three
week stay in very humid Normandy, I returned to relatively dry Paris,
and found the majority of my pegs completely stuck.
I was quite unable to move them by hand and even had great difficulty
in moving them at all, using a very handy wooden tool made by Wolfgang
Fruh, here in Paris. I was terrified that either a peg would break, or
the peg-box would crack, but finally they all did move, without visible
damage.
Nevertheless, if it wasn't for the fact that Stephen's pegs are
beautiful, and Wolfgang's peg mover does bring a sort of geared control
to them, I would gladly adopt geared pegs, just to avoid another
similar episode, after my next trip back to Normandy.
Initially, I was very doubtful about Wolfgang's peg turner, fearing the
added force could bring damage, but it does seem to work very well
indeed, and gives more precision and accuracy than just using unaided
hand-force, which almost always leads to overshoot.
It is definitely worth trying one of these, they look good and seem to
work well (and it doesn't slip off the peg, as some similar tools are
said to do); although I will not accept responsibility for any broken
peg-boxes ...
Anthony
Message d'origine
>De : "David Tayler"
>A : "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu"
>Objet : ***SPAM***[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
>Date : 21/06/2010 03:55:22 CEST
>
>It did not stick on the nut--I think he used a real nut, like a Brazil
nut.
> d
>
> At 06:23 PM 6/20/2010, you wrote:
> >It can be on many lutes, but not on this particular nut.
> >
> >ed
> >
> >At 08:16 PM 6/20/2010, Miles Dempster wrote:
> >
> > >But isn't there still the problem of the strings sticking on the
nut?
> > >
> > >Miles
> > >
> > >On 2010-06-20, at 9:07 PM, Edward Martin wrote:
> > >
> > > > I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday. It is a very,
very
> > > > nice Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to
call
> > > > them, are very nice, very interesting. They are, as DT says,
smooth
> > > > as butter, and they will never slip, as pegs do. They are
plain, but
> > > > very attractive..
> > > >
> > > > I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around
$30
> > > > each. But, what an improvement over friction pegs! Not only can
one
> > > > tune more accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e.,
> > > > slipping. Yes, they do need to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan
> > > > informs me they are quite easy to put in.
> > > >
> > > > The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a
while, to
> > > > try them on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was
too
> > > > much. But, There is no noticeable difference in weight that I
could
> > > > discern as compared to pegs, and the sound is not affected in
any
> way.
> > > >
> > > > I am most impressed. I have ordered a set for my vihuela.
> > > >
> > > > ed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 05:21 PM 6/20/2010, Edward Mast wrote:
> > > >> I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and
a
> > > >> violinist - who does. They like them a lot. My questions would
be:
> > > >> 1) How much would each peg for a lute cost?
> > > >> 2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the
player
> > > >> do it him/herself?
> > > >> 3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden
peg
> > > >> (?), would geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the
peg
> > > >> box? Enough to change the balance of the instrument?
> > > >>
> > > >> Ned
> > > >> On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey
lute.
> > > >>> Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut
strung
> with
> > > >>> some really cool strin
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
Actually, this instrument is in all gut, including the treble, and the strings do not stick on the nut. I think he takes care in the polishing of it. At 11:09 PM 6/20/2010, Christopher Stetson wrote: >Hmmm... nice and oily, and the strings would cut their own grooves... > >C. >>>> David Tayler 6/20/2010 9:55 PM >>> >It did not stick on the nut--I think he used a real nut, like a Brazil >nut. >d >At 06:23 PM 6/20/2010, you wrote: >>It can be on many lutes, but not on this particular nut. >> >>ed >> >>At 08:16 PM 6/20/2010, Miles Dempster wrote: >> >> >But isn't there still the problem of the strings sticking on the >nut? >> > >> >Miles >> > >> >On 2010-06-20, at 9:07 PM, Edward Martin wrote: >> > >> > > I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday. It is a very, >very >> > > nice Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to >call >> > > them, are very nice, very interesting. They are, as DT says, >smooth >> > > as butter, and they will never slip, as pegs do. They are plain, >but >> > > very attractive.. >> > > >> > > I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around $30 >> > > each. But, what an improvement over friction pegs! Not only can >one >> > > tune more accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e., >> > > slipping. Yes, they do need to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan >> > > informs me they are quite easy to put in. >> > > >> > > The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a while, >to >> > > try them on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was too >> > > much. But, There is no noticeable difference in weight that I >could >> > > discern as compared to pegs, and the sound is not affected in any >way. >> > > >> > > I am most impressed. I have ordered a set for my vihuela. >> > > >> > > ed >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > At 05:21 PM 6/20/2010, Edward Mast wrote: >> > >> I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and a >> > >> violinist - who does. They like them a lot. My questions would >be: >> > >> 1) How much would each peg for a lute cost? >> > >> 2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the >player >> > >> do it him/herself? >> > >> 3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden peg >> > >> (?), would geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the >peg >> > >> box? Enough to change the balance of the instrument? >> > >> >> > >> Ned >> > >> On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: >> > >> >> > >>> At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey >lute. >> > >>> Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut >strung with >> > >>> some really cool strings. >> > >>> This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. >I >> > >>> mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you >know >> > >>> what I mean. >> > >>> I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was >my >> > >>> first lute adventure. >> > >>> The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an >internal >> > >>> braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the >historical term. >> > >>> You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr >> > >>> >[1]http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ >> > >>> >> > >>> I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! >> > >>> dt >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >> > >>> [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
Hmmm... nice and oily, and the strings would cut their own grooves... C. >>> David Tayler 6/20/2010 9:55 PM >>> It did not stick on the nut--I think he used a real nut, like a Brazil nut. d At 06:23 PM 6/20/2010, you wrote: >It can be on many lutes, but not on this particular nut. > >ed > >At 08:16 PM 6/20/2010, Miles Dempster wrote: > > >But isn't there still the problem of the strings sticking on the nut? > > > >Miles > > > >On 2010-06-20, at 9:07 PM, Edward Martin wrote: > > > > > I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday. It is a very, very > > > nice Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to call > > > them, are very nice, very interesting. They are, as DT says, smooth > > > as butter, and they will never slip, as pegs do. They are plain, but > > > very attractive.. > > > > > > I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around $30 > > > each. But, what an improvement over friction pegs! Not only can one > > > tune more accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e., > > > slipping. Yes, they do need to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan > > > informs me they are quite easy to put in. > > > > > > The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a while, to > > > try them on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was too > > > much. But, There is no noticeable difference in weight that I could > > > discern as compared to pegs, and the sound is not affected in any way. > > > > > > I am most impressed. I have ordered a set for my vihuela. > > > > > > ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 05:21 PM 6/20/2010, Edward Mast wrote: > > >> I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and a > > >> violinist - who does. They like them a lot. My questions would be: > > >> 1) How much would each peg for a lute cost? > > >> 2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the player > > >> do it him/herself? > > >> 3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden peg > > >> (?), would geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the peg > > >> box? Enough to change the balance of the instrument? > > >> > > >> Ned > > >> On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: > > >> > > >>> At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. > > >>> Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with > > >>> some really cool strings. > > >>> This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I > > >>> mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know > > >>> what I mean. > > >>> I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my > > >>> first lute adventure. > > >>> The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal > > >>> braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. > > >>> You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr > > >>> [1]http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ > > >>> > > >>> I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! > > >>> dt > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> To get on or off this list see list information at > > >>> [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Edward Martin > > > 2817 East 2nd Street > > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > > > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > > > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > > [3]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > > > [4]http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > > > > > > > > > > > >Edward Martin >2817 East 2nd Street >Duluth, Minnesota 55812 >e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com >voice: (218) 728-1202 >[5]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name >[6]http://www.myspace.com/edslute -- References 1. http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute 3. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name 4. http://www.myspace.com/edslute 5. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name 6. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
It did not stick on the nut--I think he used a real nut, like a Brazil nut. d At 06:23 PM 6/20/2010, you wrote: >It can be on many lutes, but not on this particular nut. > >ed > >At 08:16 PM 6/20/2010, Miles Dempster wrote: > > >But isn't there still the problem of the strings sticking on the nut? > > > >Miles > > > >On 2010-06-20, at 9:07 PM, Edward Martin wrote: > > > > > I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday. It is a very, very > > > nice Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to call > > > them, are very nice, very interesting. They are, as DT says, smooth > > > as butter, and they will never slip, as pegs do. They are plain, but > > > very attractive.. > > > > > > I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around $30 > > > each. But, what an improvement over friction pegs! Not only can one > > > tune more accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e., > > > slipping. Yes, they do need to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan > > > informs me they are quite easy to put in. > > > > > > The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a while, to > > > try them on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was too > > > much. But, There is no noticeable difference in weight that I could > > > discern as compared to pegs, and the sound is not affected in any way. > > > > > > I am most impressed. I have ordered a set for my vihuela. > > > > > > ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 05:21 PM 6/20/2010, Edward Mast wrote: > > >> I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and a > > >> violinist - who does. They like them a lot. My questions would be: > > >> 1) How much would each peg for a lute cost? > > >> 2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the player > > >> do it him/herself? > > >> 3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden peg > > >> (?), would geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the peg > > >> box? Enough to change the balance of the instrument? > > >> > > >> Ned > > >> On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: > > >> > > >>> At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. > > >>> Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with > > >>> some really cool strings. > > >>> This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I > > >>> mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know > > >>> what I mean. > > >>> I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my > > >>> first lute adventure. > > >>> The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal > > >>> braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. > > >>> You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr > > >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ > > >>> > > >>> I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! > > >>> dt > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> To get on or off this list see list information at > > >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Edward Martin > > > 2817 East 2nd Street > > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > > > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > > > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > > > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > > > > > > > > > > > >Edward Martin >2817 East 2nd Street >Duluth, Minnesota 55812 >e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com >voice: (218) 728-1202 >http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name >http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
It can be on many lutes, but not on this particular nut. ed At 08:16 PM 6/20/2010, Miles Dempster wrote: >But isn't there still the problem of the strings sticking on the nut? > >Miles > >On 2010-06-20, at 9:07 PM, Edward Martin wrote: > > > I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday. It is a very, very > > nice Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to call > > them, are very nice, very interesting. They are, as DT says, smooth > > as butter, and they will never slip, as pegs do. They are plain, but > > very attractive.. > > > > I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around $30 > > each. But, what an improvement over friction pegs! Not only can one > > tune more accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e., > > slipping. Yes, they do need to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan > > informs me they are quite easy to put in. > > > > The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a while, to > > try them on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was too > > much. But, There is no noticeable difference in weight that I could > > discern as compared to pegs, and the sound is not affected in any way. > > > > I am most impressed. I have ordered a set for my vihuela. > > > > ed > > > > > > > > > > > > At 05:21 PM 6/20/2010, Edward Mast wrote: > >> I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and a > >> violinist - who does. They like them a lot. My questions would be: > >> 1) How much would each peg for a lute cost? > >> 2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the player > >> do it him/herself? > >> 3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden peg > >> (?), would geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the peg > >> box? Enough to change the balance of the instrument? > >> > >> Ned > >> On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: > >> > >>> At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. > >>> Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with > >>> some really cool strings. > >>> This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I > >>> mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know > >>> what I mean. > >>> I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my > >>> first lute adventure. > >>> The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal > >>> braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. > >>> You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr > >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ > >>> > >>> I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! > >>> dt > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> To get on or off this list see list information at > >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > Edward Martin > > 2817 East 2nd Street > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > > > > > Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
But isn't there still the problem of the strings sticking on the nut? Miles On 2010-06-20, at 9:07 PM, Edward Martin wrote: > I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday. It is a very, very > nice Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to call > them, are very nice, very interesting. They are, as DT says, smooth > as butter, and they will never slip, as pegs do. They are plain, but > very attractive.. > > I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around $30 > each. But, what an improvement over friction pegs! Not only can one > tune more accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e., > slipping. Yes, they do need to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan > informs me they are quite easy to put in. > > The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a while, to > try them on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was too > much. But, There is no noticeable difference in weight that I could > discern as compared to pegs, and the sound is not affected in any way. > > I am most impressed. I have ordered a set for my vihuela. > > ed > > > > > > At 05:21 PM 6/20/2010, Edward Mast wrote: >> I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and a >> violinist - who does. They like them a lot. My questions would be: >> 1) How much would each peg for a lute cost? >> 2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the player >> do it him/herself? >> 3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden peg >> (?), would geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the peg >> box? Enough to change the balance of the instrument? >> >> Ned >> On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: >> >>> At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. >>> Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with >>> some really cool strings. >>> This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I >>> mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know >>> what I mean. >>> I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my >>> first lute adventure. >>> The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal >>> braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. >>> You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ >>> >>> I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! >>> dt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > voice: (218) 728-1202 > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > > >
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday. It is a very, very nice Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to call them, are very nice, very interesting. They are, as DT says, smooth as butter, and they will never slip, as pegs do. They are plain, but very attractive.. I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around $30 each. But, what an improvement over friction pegs! Not only can one tune more accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e., slipping. Yes, they do need to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan informs me they are quite easy to put in. The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a while, to try them on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was too much. But, There is no noticeable difference in weight that I could discern as compared to pegs, and the sound is not affected in any way. I am most impressed. I have ordered a set for my vihuela. ed At 05:21 PM 6/20/2010, Edward Mast wrote: >I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and a >violinist - who does. They like them a lot. My questions would be: >1) How much would each peg for a lute cost? >2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the player >do it him/herself? >3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden peg >(?), would geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the peg >box? Enough to change the balance of the instrument? > >Ned >On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: > > > At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. > > Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with > > some really cool strings. > > This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I > > mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know > > what I mean. > > I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my > > first lute adventure. > > The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal > > braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. > > You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ > > > > I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! > > dt > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
The ones Dan had were small and light. He was saying 25-35 per peg, I think, in what used to be the dollar. The taper would have to be similar, to fit the holes, but since the "peg", or let's call it a "keg" , what the hay, doesn't rotate in the pegbox holes it does not have to be exact. dt At 03:21 PM 6/20/2010, you wrote: >I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and a >violinist - who does. They like them a lot. My questions would be: >1) How much would each peg for a lute cost? >2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the player >do it him/herself? >3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden peg >(?), would geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the peg >box? Enough to change the balance of the instrument? > >Ned >On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: > > > At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. > > Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with > > some really cool strings. > > This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I > > mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know > > what I mean. > > I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my > > first lute adventure. > > The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal > > braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. > > You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ > > > > I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! > > dt > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
That archlute has one of those Korg mics clipped on it, which you need for tuning at an exhibition, unless you have prehensile ears. It is the twin of mine, although it sounds a bit better than mine and is happy with Sarge. At 01:12 PM 6/20/2010, you wrote: >Thanks for the pictures, David! > >Do I see a clip-on tuner on the extension in the "bfx11" photo? > >-- R > > >On Jun 20, 2010, at 2:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: > >>At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. >>Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with >>some really cool strings. >>This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I >>mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know >>what I mean. >>I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my >>first lute adventure. >>The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal >>braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical >>term. >>You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ >> >>I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! >>dt >> >> >> >> >>To get on or off this list see list information at >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and a violinist - who does. They like them a lot. My questions would be: 1) How much would each peg for a lute cost? 2) Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the player do it him/herself? 3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden peg (?), would geared pegs add significantly to the weight of the peg box? Enough to change the balance of the instrument? Ned On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: > At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. > Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with > some really cool strings. > This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I > mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know > what I mean. > I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my > first lute adventure. > The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal > braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. > You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr > http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ > > I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! > dt > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
Thanks for the pictures, David! Do I see a clip-on tuner on the extension in the "bfx11" photo? -- R On Jun 20, 2010, at 2:33 PM, David Tayler wrote: At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with some really cool strings. This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know what I mean. I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my first lute adventure. The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute
At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute. Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with some really cool strings. This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know what I mean. I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my first lute adventure. The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term. You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/ I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs! dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Keeping pegs pushed in.
Pull the peg out, sand it very lightly to remove the excess wax, and replace. If the peg does not fit, it must be sharpened with a special tool, and possibly the holes reamed. I never use peg goop, and my pegs very rarely move. However, pegs to "frap" to use Mace's word, mostly when you dive into air conditioned rooms. And I have seen orchestra players frap their pegs! There's one in the video of the Christmas Concerto I'm working on, but I won't use that camera angle. dt At 11:48 AM 3/29/2010, you wrote: >I expend some work keeping my pegs pushed in, to avoid >the 24-hour catastrophe of having a peg spin loose and >its string de-stretch. So, it's a somewhat frustrating >that violin/viol/viola/bass players never seem to worry >about this issue. > >While tuning, they turn the peg with one hand and bow with >the other hand. I have never seen them put down the bow, brace >the violin with the right hand, and push in a peg with the >left hand. And I have never noticed their pegs spinning loose, >despite the dozens of symphonies I've seen with dozens of >string instruments in each symphony. > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Keeping pegs pushed in.
It's called "frapping" among gambists and violinists and happens all the time. Bass gambists will press their heads against the neck of the instrument while turning the pegs on the side opposite to provide the pressure needed to prevent frapping. On the bass side the gambist will use the index finger and thumb to turn the peg while positioning 2 fingers of the same hand on the treble side to provide enough pressure to, it is hoped, prevent frapping. Even then, frapping occurs often enough. A fact of early music life. Gary - Original Message - From: "Herbert Ward" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 11:48 AM Subject: [LUTE] Keeping pegs pushed in. I expend some work keeping my pegs pushed in, to avoid the 24-hour catastrophe of having a peg spin loose and its string de-stretch. So, it's a somewhat frustrating that violin/viol/viola/bass players never seem to worry about this issue. While tuning, they turn the peg with one hand and bow with the other hand. I have never seen them put down the bow, brace the violin with the right hand, and push in a peg with the left hand. And I have never noticed their pegs spinning loose, despite the dozens of symphonies I've seen with dozens of string instruments in each symphony. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2774 - Release Date: 03/27/10 12:32:00
[LUTE] Re: pegs
Herb, The string players in the band are constantly moving the pegs while frequently tuning. Some of them go down several notes and then come back to the note. All that motion keeps the peg dope distributed around the peg, and allows for constant readjustment of the peg tension. If you have not noticed, each of them also attempts to keep the instrument humidified with a humidity source in the case. It is humidity that causes the pegs to vary in shape with regard to the pegbox. When the pegs get out of shape, they do not present enough surface area to the sides of the peg box hole, and require a lot of pressure to secure. This is a good way to crack a peg box. When the humidity in the case begins to drop below 45%, start feeding your humidifier with daily water. This means you need a humidity/temperature gage and a humidifier in the case. There are some great little hygrometers for cigar boxes that will work fine. A guitar humdifier will work as well. Keep the lute in the case when not in use. After the pegs smooth out, take an afternoon and put fresh peg dope on all of them. All that pressure will force all the old dope off the friction area of the pegs. I have forgotten about the anoyance of unspun pegs since maintaining the humidity. I have 3 lutes up to pitch right now, all at 47% humidity. That's 67 pegs, and no slipage. Louis Aull Atlanta -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Keeping pegs pushed in.
I expend some work keeping my pegs pushed in, to avoid the 24-hour catastrophe of having a peg spin loose and its string de-stretch. So, it's a somewhat frustrating that violin/viol/viola/bass players never seem to worry about this issue. While tuning, they turn the peg with one hand and bow with the other hand. I have never seen them put down the bow, brace the violin with the right hand, and push in a peg with the left hand. And I have never noticed their pegs spinning loose, despite the dozens of symphonies I've seen with dozens of string instruments in each symphony. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: ordering pegs
I apologize for the mistake, I'm pleased that you found the luthier.
I own as well a lute from Stephen and Sandi a marvelous
instrument.
Best regards
Henry
-Inline Attachment Follows-
On Thursday 07 August 2008 14:07, Henry Villca rattled on the keyboard:
> Dear Taco,
>
>I'm not quite sure but I've heard that he does the
lute pegs
> for luthiers such us S. Barber and others. . anyhow the pegs
are top
> class... [1]http://www.brucebrook.co.uk/pegs.htm
>
> Best Wishes.
> Henry.
>
>
>
Thanks,
stephen uses pegs from philip brown and he just sent me the
telephonenumber.
I've 3 lutes from stephen and sandy and those don't have any problems
but a
renaissance lute from an italian maker has problems. My wife is
violinmaker
and will fit new pegs for the instrument, but didn't know where to
order the
pegs. Anyway thanks for the response.
Taco
--- On Thu, 8/7/08, Taco Walstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Taco Walstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [LUTE] ordering pegs
To: "lutelist"
Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 7:11 AM
Does anybody have an address where to order lute pegs in Europe?
Taco
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://www.brucebrook.co.uk/pegs.htm
[LUTE] Re: ordering pegs
Dear Taco, I'm not quite sure but I've heard that he does the lute pegs for luthiers such us S. Barber and others. anyhow the pegs are top class... [1]http://www.brucebrook.co.uk/pegs.htm Best Wishes. Henry. --- On Thu, 8/7/08, Taco Walstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Taco Walstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [LUTE] ordering pegs To: "lutelist" Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 7:11 AM Does anybody have an address where to order lute pegs in Europe? Taco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.brucebrook.co.uk/pegs.htm
[LUTE] Re: ordering pegs
Taco, maybe this: http://www.madinter.com/b2c/index.php?page=pp_productos.php&tipo=1&ref=ref-140&md=1 Jelma On 8/7/08, Taco Walstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does anybody have an address where to order lute pegs in Europe? > Taco > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] ordering pegs
Does anybody have an address where to order lute pegs in Europe? Taco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Stuck pegs
It is summertime. The humidity is high. High humidity causes wood to swell causing pegs to stick. Simply moving the instrument to a dryer environment for a few weeks may help. Craig Craig R. Pierpont Another Era Lutherie www.anotherera.com --- On Wed, 8/6/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [LUTE] Stuck pegs To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" , "David Tayler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 10:34 AM Dear All: A well-known luthier once told me an effective way to remove a stuck peg without damaging it: Take a short length of wooden dowel (1 inch or 2 cm) that is slightly smaller in diameter than the small end of the stuck peg. Then take a small mallet or hammer and gently tap-tap-tap until it pops loose. Do not use pliers or vise-grips! Cheers, Jim To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Stuck pegs
Dear All: A well-known luthier once told me an effective way to remove a stuck peg without damaging it: Take a short length of wooden dowel (1 inch or 2 cm) that is slightly smaller in diameter than the small end of the stuck peg. Then take a small mallet or hammer and gently tap-tap-tap until it pops loose. Do not use pliers or vise-grips! Cheers, Jim To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: secret pegs
Dear All: These secret pegs may seem like a good idea but a friend who got a viola da gamba with them reports that they do not work properly (they slip) and a luthier suggested drilling them out and replacing them with traditional wooden pegs. It is possible that she did not maintain them properly or did not follow instructions or some such, but I am very skeptical of this. Jim Stimson From: Anthony Hind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 2008/02/26 Tue PM 06:15:24 CST To: David Tayler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Net" Subject: [LUTE] Re: secret pegs Do you mean these, David? http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/PVP1T.htm http://tinyurl.com/2au88d Making holes for them: http://tinyurl.com/2e2pmx No they are not mine, but someone sent me the photos. I was a little scared at the idea of fitting them, and also the non-historic appearence. Perhaps the new ones are better? Anthony Le 27 fevr. 08 =E0 00:48, David Tayler a ecrit : > I saw the secret pegs on a friend's viola da gamba. > They look exactly like pegs, but have gears inside. > Very cool. And historical! There are literally thousands of paintings > which show pegs that may very well > have gears inside that we can't see. This is far more persuasive than > all the paintings of natural trumpets that have holes in them that we > can't see. > > Anyway, I thought these pegs would be great for wire strung > instruments in the lute/bandora family. > dt > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: secret pegs
Do you mean these, David? http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/PVP1T.htm http://tinyurl.com/2au88d Making holes for them: http://tinyurl.com/2e2pmx No they are not mine, but someone sent me the photos. I was a little scared at the idea of fitting them, and also the non-historic appearence. Perhaps the new ones are better? Anthony Le 27 fevr. 08 =E0 00:48, David Tayler a ecrit : > I saw the secret pegs on a friend's viola da gamba. > They look exactly like pegs, but have gears inside. > Very cool. And historical! There are literally thousands of paintings > which show pegs that may very well > have gears inside that we can't see. This is far more persuasive than > all the paintings of natural trumpets that have holes in them that we > can't see. > > Anyway, I thought these pegs would be great for wire strung > instruments in the lute/bandora family. > dt > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] secret pegs
I saw the secret pegs on a friend's viola da gamba. They look exactly like pegs, but have gears inside. Very cool. And historical! There are literally thousands of paintings which show pegs that may very well have gears inside that we can't see. This is far more persuasive than all the paintings of natural trumpets that have holes in them that we can't see. Anyway, I thought these pegs would be great for wire strung instruments in the lute/bandora family. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Slipping pegs
>>> "Louis Aull" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12/24/2007 9:04 am >>> John et al. I trained a while with an "old school" violin maker. We would put the dried soap (old bar of Zest) on the peg, roll it in the hole to deposit the soap in the hole as well, and then us a a piece of blackboard chalk to "write" a bit of chalk on the friction areas of the peg. This method also helped "fill in" any low spots on the peg. Merry Christmas. Lou Aull -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Pegs
Wow! I wasn't seriously considering this, but it may be just the thing for my workhorse gigging lute. What we should do is clamor for the guy to make thinner Renaissance looking pegs. On Sep 30, 2007, at 4:28 PM, Anthony Hind wrote: > Henk and Ed > The French Vihuelist considers that installing the new pegs > =20 > does not make the peg-head more fragile. He argues that once they > are =20= > > in place the lute undergoes much less strain than when at each =20 > tuning, we tend to force the peg home to hold it there. He also > says =20 > that the pegs are not heavier than the original ones. Nevertheless, > =20 > the surgery is invasive, and the aspect of the pegs, close to will =20 > not be "authentic". The pleasure obtained in ease of tuning, > however, =20= > > he assures us is very great. > > Henk sent photos that should allow anyone to view the =20 > process of installing the new pegs, to judge whether the it is > worth it. > I don't know whether these photos can be viewed easilly. I have =20= > > loaded them at two separate web pages. One is the French luth > Yahoo =20 > page and may need a code, the other is Photobucket and should allow > =20 > free viewing if the other doesn't work. It may be necessary to copy > =20 > the address into your browser. > > 1) Henk's own lute's peghead showing classic lute pegs > http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D1 > http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=20 > 20pegs/?action=3Dview¤t=3DLuteHenkPakker800x600.jpg > > 2) Widening the peg holes > http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D2 > http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=20 > 20pegs/?action=3Dview¤t=3DLuteReamingHoles.jpg > > 3) The end piece of a peg > http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3 > http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=20 > 20pegs/?action=3Dview¤t=3Dmillingluteheads.jpg > > 4) Completely repegged lute > http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=20 > 20pegs/?action=3Dview¤t=3DLutePeghedComplete.jpg > http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D4 > > Anthony > > > Le 29 sept. 07 =E0 12:58, Anthony Hind a =E9crit : > >> Henk >> A vihuelist on the French list reports he has adapted these pegs = > =20 >> himself for his vihuela (or rather vice versa) and tells us they =20 >> are very pleasant indeed. Only the price, 270 USD for 12 pegs, he =20 >> says, prevents him from equiping all his instruments. >> >> However, you do have to widen the peg-holes. The pegs themselve =20 >> screw into the hole, and some gluing is involved. Therefore, >> having =20= > >> them fitted by a specialist, as you suggest, would seem much safer. >> >> However, perhaps, this still might weaken the peg-box structure; =20 >> and if your lute is an exact copy of a historic lute, the pegs may >> =20 >> no longer look the part. Unless they can exactly match the outside >> =20 >> shape. >> Fear that these pegs could perhaps be heavier than the originals, =20 >> which could effect the sound, has been contradicted by the =20 >> Vihuelist, who says they seem as light as his original pegs. >> Anthony >> >> The explanations are here : >> http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/message/5743 >> >> Le 29 sept. 07 =3DE0 11:52, henk a =3DE9crit : >> >>> Interesting..? >>> >>> There are some enclosed foto's, if someone wants to see them let =20 >>> me =3D20=3D >> >>> know. (Earlier I forewarded the mail with enclosures, but that =3D20 >>> doesn't seem to work - with an empty message as result). >>> >>> Henk Pakker >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: John Charles Herin >>> To: henk >>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 5:10 PM >>> Subject: Re: Lute Pegs >>> >>> >>> Dear Henk: >>> >>> If you send my your pegs, of another set of your choice, I can >>> fit =20= > >>> =3D20 >>> your heads to my mechanism. >>> >>> I can match the color of the outer shank to ebony or rosewood =3D20 >>> heads. The portion of the shank within the peg box wall will be >>> =3D20 >>> black in either case. >>> >>> I have sold quite a few sets for lute. On customer Derek Bowers =20 >>> of =3D20=3D >> >>> California, USA has over the years converted three instruments. >>> >>> Please let me know if I can help you. >>> >>> Sincerely >>> >>> Chuck Herin >>> >>> >>> >>> henk wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> Is it possible to make them for (baroque) lutes as well...? >>> (see =20= > >>> =3D20 >>> photo). >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Henk Pakker >>> The Netherlands >>> -- >>> >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> > > Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
[LUTE] Re: Test format Pegs
this is the URL that works. There are two character codes at the end of the first line that can easily be removed with a text editor. http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%20pegs/?actio n=view¤t=LuteReamingHoles.jpg Charles -Original Message- From: Anthony Hind [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 September 2007 17:07 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Net Subject: [LUTE] Test format Pegs I don't know whether these photos can be viewed. I am just sending this having changed one setting on my mail programme to see if it makes any difference. Making the holes http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical% 20pegs/?action=view¤t=LuteReamingHoles.jpg Completed pegs http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical% 20pegs/?action=view¤t=LutePeghedComplete.jpg Regards Anthony To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Test format Pegs
Try these! http://tinyurl.com/2gh9wl http://tinyurl.com/2x5gnj http://tinyurl.com/2h9rgq http://tinyurl.com/2el9sn They're in order, and you can use the .com to see how to do it (it was on the list some time back) Tony - Original Message - From: "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:06 PM Subject: [LUTE] Test format Pegs >I don't know whether these photos can be viewed. I am just sending > this having changed one setting on my mail programme to see if it > makes any difference. > Making the holes > http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical% > 20pegs/?action=view¤t=LuteReamingHoles.jpg > Completed pegs > http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical% > 20pegs/?action=view¤t=LutePeghedComplete.jpg > > Regards > Anthony > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Pegs over-and-out, I hope
It now does seem that the text comes through all right. I don't know how my format changed. All you need to do now, is to copy the complete link into your browser. You may have to copy the two lines that makes the complete link separately. I give the three links once more: Making the holes http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical% 20pegs/?action=view¤t=LuteReamingHoles.jpg Completed pegs http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical% 20pegs/?action=view¤t=LutePeghedComplete.jpg Top of a peg http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical% 20pegs/?action=view¤t=millingluteheads.jpg I hope this has finally worked, and that for one or two it may be useful. Cost of pegs 270 USD for 12 pegs. Only problem non authentic appearence. Regards Anthony To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Test format Pegs
I don't know whether these photos can be viewed. I am just sending this having changed one setting on my mail programme to see if it makes any difference. Making the holes http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical% 20pegs/?action=view¤t=LuteReamingHoles.jpg Completed pegs http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical% 20pegs/?action=view¤t=LutePeghedComplete.jpg Regards Anthony To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Pegs image problem
Try this and then choose from the sub albums "mechanical pegs" http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile Regards Dag Skarvang - Original Message From: Leonard Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Lute List Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 4:03:05 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Pegs image problem Is there a key to manually "cleaning up" these links to access the images?? I'd like to see these mechanical pegs, but I have had no success with the links as given, nor with searches at the photo bucket site. Regards, Leonard Williams On 9/30/07 5:05 AM, "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Henk >Well, I see that that the image link is automatically garbled by =20= > > intervening letters and numbers. > I can understand that this is a security against unwanted images. > It would be possible to give a rule for removing these, but it is too =20= > > complex. > The best thing is to ask Henk for his photos directly, should you be =20 > interested. > Regards > Anthony > > Le 30 sept. 07 =E0 09:28, Anthony Hind a ecrit : > >> Henk and Ed >> The French Vihuelist considers that installing the new pegs =20= > >> =3D20 >> does not make the peg-head more fragile. He argues that once they =20 >> are =3D20=3D >> >> in place the lute undergoes much less strain than when at each =3D20 >> tuning, we tend to force the peg home to hold it there. He also =20 >> says =3D20 >> that the pegs are not heavier than the original ones. Nevertheless, =20= > >> =3D20 >> the surgery is invasive, and the aspect of the pegs, close to will =3D20= > >> not be "authentic". The pleasure obtained in ease of tuning, =20 >> however, =3D20=3D >> >> he assures us is very great. >> >> Henk sent photos that should allow anyone to view the =3D20 >> process of installing the new pegs, to judge whether the it is =20 >> worth it. >> I don't know whether these photos can be viewed easilly. I have = > =3D20=3D >> >> loaded them at two separate web pages. One is the French luth =20 >> Yahoo =3D20 >> page and may need a code, the other is Photobucket and should allow =20= > >> =3D20 >> free viewing if the other doesn't work. It may be necessary to copy =20= > >> =3D20 >> the address into your browser. >> >> 1) Henk's own lute's peghead showing classic lute pegs >> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D1 >> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 >> 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3DLuteHenkPakker800x600.jpg >> >> 2) Widening the peg holes >> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D2 >> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 >> 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3DLuteReamingHoles.jpg >> >> 3) The end piece of a peg >> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D3 >> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 >> 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3Dmillingluteheads.jpg >> >> 4) Completely repegged lute >> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 >> 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3DLutePeghedComplete.jpg >> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D4 >> >> Anthony >> >> >> Le 29 sept. 07 =3DE0 12:58, Anthony Hind a =3DE9crit : >> >>> Henk >>> A vihuelist on the French list reports he has adapted these pegs = > =3D >> =3D20 >>> himself for his vihuela (or rather vice versa) and tells us they =3D20 >>> are very pleasant indeed. Only the price, 270 USD for 12 pegs, he =3D20= > >>> says, prevents him from equiping all his instruments. >>> >>> However, you do have to widen the peg-holes. The pegs themselve =3D20 >>> screw into the hole, and some gluing is involved. Therefore, =20 >>> having =3D20=3D >> >>> them fitted by a specialist, as you suggest, would seem much safer. >>> >>> However, perhaps, this still might weaken the peg-box structure; =3D20 >>> and if your lute is an exact copy of a historic lute, the pegs may =20= > >>> =3D20 >>> no longer look the part. Unless they can exactly match the outside =20= > >>> =3D20 >>> shape. >>> Fear that these pegs could perhaps be heavier than the originals, =3D20= > >>> which could effect the sound, has been contradicted by the =3D20 >>> Vihuelist, who says they seem as light as h
[LUTE] Rép : [LUTE] Re: Pegs image problem
Dear all Leonard, If you are reading this message, then you would do = better =20 to open the one that is addressed to you personally. I hope it won't =20 have the same problem. Somebody, may understand what is going on, so I send it to all. =20= There seems to be something strange here, effecting all my message. =20 They return with "=3D20=3D" and "=3D3D20" scattered throughout the = message. I don't recall seeing that before, but I suppose it may be due to the =20= fact that I am using a Mac, and some format issues may be occurring. =20 I apologise to anyone who has added difficulty in decyphering them. I believe these also effected my links to the photos, so it should be =20= possible to recuperate them by deleting the right sequences of "=3D20=3D" = =20 and "=3D3D20". However, they are not quite systematic, and you may =20 delete, somthing significant in the link. I will therefore try =20 sending the links directly, to anyone who wishes to see Henk's =20 photos. It takes less memory than the actual photos. Please let me know if this works. I have asked Wayne about it, but I imagine he has other things to do =20 on a Sunday, I can't say that I blame him. Best regards Anthony Le 30 sept. 07 =E0 16:03, Leonard Williams a =E9crit : > Is there a key to manually "cleaning up" these links to access the =20 > images?? > I'd like to see these mechanical pegs, but I have had no success =20 > with the > links as given, nor with searches at the photo bucket site. > > Regards, > Leonard Williams > > On 9/30/07 5:05 AM, "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Henk >>Well, I see that that the image link is automatically garbled =20 >> by =3D20=3D >> >> intervening letters and numbers. >> I can understand that this is a security against unwanted images. >> It would be possible to give a rule for removing these, but it is =20 >> too =3D20=3D >> >> complex. >> The best thing is to ask Henk for his photos directly, should you =20 >> be =3D20 >> interested. >> Regards >> Anthony >> >> Le 30 sept. 07 =3DE0 09:28, Anthony Hind a =3DE9crit : >> >> >>> Henk and Ed >>> The French Vihuelist considers that installing the new =20 >>> pegs =3D20=3D >>> >> >> >>> =3D3D20 >>> does not make the peg-head more fragile. He argues that once they =20= >>> =3D20 >>> are =3D3D20=3D3D >>> >>> in place the lute undergoes much less strain than when at each =3D3D20= >>> tuning, we tend to force the peg home to hold it there. He also =3D20 >>> says =3D3D20 >>> that the pegs are not heavier than the original ones. =20 >>> Nevertheless, =3D20=3D >>> >> >> >>> =3D3D20 >>> the surgery is invasive, and the aspect of the pegs, close to =20 >>> will =3D3D20=3D >>> >> >> >>> not be "authentic". The pleasure obtained in ease of tuning, =3D20 >>> however, =3D3D20=3D3D >>> >>> he assures us is very great. >>> >>> Henk sent photos that should allow anyone to view the =20 >>> =3D3D20 >>> process of installing the new pegs, to judge whether the it is =3D20 >>> worth it. >>> I don't know whether these photos can be viewed easilly. I have =3D >>> >> =3D3D20=3D3D >> >>> >>> loaded them at two separate web pages. One is the French luth =3D20 >>> Yahoo =3D3D20 >>> page and may need a code, the other is Photobucket and should =20 >>> allow =3D20=3D >>> >> >> >>> =3D3D20 >>> free viewing if the other doesn't work. It may be necessary to =20 >>> copy =3D20=3D >>> >> >> >>> =3D3D20 >>> the address into your browser. >>> >>> 1) Henk's own lute's peghead showing classic lute pegs >>> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D3D1= >>> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D3D20= >>> 20pegs/?action=3D3D3Dview¤t=3D3D3DLuteHenkPakker800x600.jpg >>> >>> 2) Widening the peg holes >>> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D3D2= >>> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D3D20= >>> 20pegs/?action=3D3D3Dview¤t=3D3D3DLuteReamingHoles.jpg >>> >>> 3) The end piece of a peg >>> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D3D3= >>> http://s105.photobucket
[LUTE] Re: Pegs image problem
I had no problem on the yahoo group site, but you need to log in or get a free account to log in. I couldn't unravel the photo bucket site - I think that the spare character are just character codes for things like space and carriage return, but as I'd seen the pics, I didn't bother looking them up. Tony - Original Message - From: "Leonard Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute List" Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 4:03 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Pegs image problem > Is there a key to manually "cleaning up" these links to access the > images?? > I'd like to see these mechanical pegs, but I have had no success with the > links as given, nor with searches at the photo bucket site. > > Regards, > Leonard Williams > > On 9/30/07 5:05 AM, "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Henk >>Well, I see that that the image link is automatically garbled by =20= >> >> intervening letters and numbers. >> I can understand that this is a security against unwanted images. >> It would be possible to give a rule for removing these, but it is too >> =20= >> >> complex. >> The best thing is to ask Henk for his photos directly, should you be =20 >> interested. >> Regards >> Anthony >> >> Le 30 sept. 07 =E0 09:28, Anthony Hind a =E9crit : >> >>> Henk and Ed >>> The French Vihuelist considers that installing the new pegs =20= >> >>> =3D20 >>> does not make the peg-head more fragile. He argues that once they =20 >>> are =3D20=3D >>> >>> in place the lute undergoes much less strain than when at each =3D20 >>> tuning, we tend to force the peg home to hold it there. He also =20 >>> says =3D20 >>> that the pegs are not heavier than the original ones. Nevertheless, =20= >> >>> =3D20 >>> the surgery is invasive, and the aspect of the pegs, close to will >>> =3D20= >> >>> not be "authentic". The pleasure obtained in ease of tuning, =20 >>> however, =3D20=3D >>> >>> he assures us is very great. >>> >>> Henk sent photos that should allow anyone to view the =3D20 >>> process of installing the new pegs, to judge whether the it is =20 >>> worth it. >>> I don't know whether these photos can be viewed easilly. I have = >> =3D20=3D >>> >>> loaded them at two separate web pages. One is the French luth =20 >>> Yahoo =3D20 >>> page and may need a code, the other is Photobucket and should allow =20= >> >>> =3D20 >>> free viewing if the other doesn't work. It may be necessary to copy =20= >> >>> =3D20 >>> the address into your browser. >>> >>> 1) Henk's own lute's peghead showing classic lute pegs >>> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D1 >>> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 >>> 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3DLuteHenkPakker800x600.jpg >>> >>> 2) Widening the peg holes >>> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D2 >>> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 >>> 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3DLuteReamingHoles.jpg >>> >>> 3) The end piece of a peg >>> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D3 >>> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 >>> 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3Dmillingluteheads.jpg >>> >>> 4) Completely repegged lute >>> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 >>> 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3DLutePeghedComplete.jpg >>> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D4 >>> >>> Anthony >>> >>> >>> Le 29 sept. 07 =3DE0 12:58, Anthony Hind a =3DE9crit : >>> >>>> Henk >>>> A vihuelist on the French list reports he has adapted these pegs = >> =3D >>> =3D20 >>>> himself for his vihuela (or rather vice versa) and tells us they =3D20 >>>> are very pleasant indeed. Only the price, 270 USD for 12 pegs, he >>>> =3D20= >> >>>> says, prevents him from equiping all his instruments. >>>> >>>> However, you do have to widen the peg-holes. The pegs themselve =3D20 >>>> screw into the hole, and some gluing is involved. Therefore, =20 >>>> having =3D20=3D >>> >>>> them fitted by a
[LUTE] Re: Pegs image problem
Is there a key to manually "cleaning up" these links to access the images?? I'd like to see these mechanical pegs, but I have had no success with the links as given, nor with searches at the photo bucket site. Regards, Leonard Williams On 9/30/07 5:05 AM, "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Henk >Well, I see that that the image link is automatically garbled by =20= > > intervening letters and numbers. > I can understand that this is a security against unwanted images. > It would be possible to give a rule for removing these, but it is too =20= > > complex. > The best thing is to ask Henk for his photos directly, should you be =20 > interested. > Regards > Anthony > > Le 30 sept. 07 =E0 09:28, Anthony Hind a =E9crit : > >> Henk and Ed >> The French Vihuelist considers that installing the new pegs =20= > >> =3D20 >> does not make the peg-head more fragile. He argues that once they =20 >> are =3D20=3D >> >> in place the lute undergoes much less strain than when at each =3D20 >> tuning, we tend to force the peg home to hold it there. He also =20 >> says =3D20 >> that the pegs are not heavier than the original ones. Nevertheless, =20= > >> =3D20 >> the surgery is invasive, and the aspect of the pegs, close to will =3D20= > >> not be "authentic". The pleasure obtained in ease of tuning, =20 >> however, =3D20=3D >> >> he assures us is very great. >> >> Henk sent photos that should allow anyone to view the =3D20 >> process of installing the new pegs, to judge whether the it is =20 >> worth it. >> I don't know whether these photos can be viewed easilly. I have = > =3D20=3D >> >> loaded them at two separate web pages. One is the French luth =20 >> Yahoo =3D20 >> page and may need a code, the other is Photobucket and should allow =20= > >> =3D20 >> free viewing if the other doesn't work. It may be necessary to copy =20= > >> =3D20 >> the address into your browser. >> >> 1) Henk's own lute's peghead showing classic lute pegs >> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D1 >> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 >> 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3DLuteHenkPakker800x600.jpg >> >> 2) Widening the peg holes >> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D2 >> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 >> 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3DLuteReamingHoles.jpg >> >> 3) The end piece of a peg >> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D3 >> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 >> 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3Dmillingluteheads.jpg >> >> 4) Completely repegged lute >> http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 >> 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3DLutePeghedComplete.jpg >> http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D4 >> >> Anthony >> >> >> Le 29 sept. 07 =3DE0 12:58, Anthony Hind a =3DE9crit : >> >>> Henk >>> A vihuelist on the French list reports he has adapted these pegs = > =3D >> =3D20 >>> himself for his vihuela (or rather vice versa) and tells us they =3D20 >>> are very pleasant indeed. Only the price, 270 USD for 12 pegs, he =3D20= > >>> says, prevents him from equiping all his instruments. >>> >>> However, you do have to widen the peg-holes. The pegs themselve =3D20 >>> screw into the hole, and some gluing is involved. Therefore, =20 >>> having =3D20=3D >> >>> them fitted by a specialist, as you suggest, would seem much safer. >>> >>> However, perhaps, this still might weaken the peg-box structure; =3D20 >>> and if your lute is an exact copy of a historic lute, the pegs may =20= > >>> =3D20 >>> no longer look the part. Unless they can exactly match the outside =20= > >>> =3D20 >>> shape. >>> Fear that these pegs could perhaps be heavier than the originals, =3D20= > >>> which could effect the sound, has been contradicted by the =3D20 >>> Vihuelist, who says they seem as light as his original pegs. >>> Anthony >>> >>> The explanations are here : >>> http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/message/5743 >>> >>> Le 29 sept. 07 =3D3DE0 11:52, henk a =3D3DE9crit : >>> >>>> Interesting..? >>>> >>>> There are s
[LUTE] Re: Pegs image problem
Henk Well, I see that that the image link is automatically garbled by =20= intervening letters and numbers. I can understand that this is a security against unwanted images. It would be possible to give a rule for removing these, but it is too =20= complex. The best thing is to ask Henk for his photos directly, should you be =20 interested. Regards Anthony Le 30 sept. 07 =E0 09:28, Anthony Hind a =E9crit : > Henk and Ed > The French Vihuelist considers that installing the new pegs =20= > =3D20 > does not make the peg-head more fragile. He argues that once they =20 > are =3D20=3D > > in place the lute undergoes much less strain than when at each =3D20 > tuning, we tend to force the peg home to hold it there. He also =20 > says =3D20 > that the pegs are not heavier than the original ones. Nevertheless, =20= > =3D20 > the surgery is invasive, and the aspect of the pegs, close to will =3D20= > not be "authentic". The pleasure obtained in ease of tuning, =20 > however, =3D20=3D > > he assures us is very great. > > Henk sent photos that should allow anyone to view the =3D20 > process of installing the new pegs, to judge whether the it is =20 > worth it. > I don't know whether these photos can be viewed easilly. I have = =3D20=3D > > loaded them at two separate web pages. One is the French luth =20 > Yahoo =3D20 > page and may need a code, the other is Photobucket and should allow =20= > =3D20 > free viewing if the other doesn't work. It may be necessary to copy =20= > =3D20 > the address into your browser. > > 1) Henk's own lute's peghead showing classic lute pegs > http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D1 > http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 > 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3DLuteHenkPakker800x600.jpg > > 2) Widening the peg holes > http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D2 > http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 > 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3DLuteReamingHoles.jpg > > 3) The end piece of a peg > http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D3 > http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 > 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3Dmillingluteheads.jpg > > 4) Completely repegged lute > http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=3D20 > 20pegs/?action=3D3Dview¤t=3D3DLutePeghedComplete.jpg > http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3D4 > > Anthony > > > Le 29 sept. 07 =3DE0 12:58, Anthony Hind a =3DE9crit : > >> Henk >> A vihuelist on the French list reports he has adapted these pegs = =3D > =3D20 >> himself for his vihuela (or rather vice versa) and tells us they =3D20 >> are very pleasant indeed. Only the price, 270 USD for 12 pegs, he =3D20= >> says, prevents him from equiping all his instruments. >> >> However, you do have to widen the peg-holes. The pegs themselve =3D20 >> screw into the hole, and some gluing is involved. Therefore, =20 >> having =3D20=3D > >> them fitted by a specialist, as you suggest, would seem much safer. >> >> However, perhaps, this still might weaken the peg-box structure; =3D20 >> and if your lute is an exact copy of a historic lute, the pegs may =20= >> =3D20 >> no longer look the part. Unless they can exactly match the outside =20= >> =3D20 >> shape. >> Fear that these pegs could perhaps be heavier than the originals, =3D20= >> which could effect the sound, has been contradicted by the =3D20 >> Vihuelist, who says they seem as light as his original pegs. >> Anthony >> >> The explanations are here : >> http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/message/5743 >> >> Le 29 sept. 07 =3D3DE0 11:52, henk a =3D3DE9crit : >> >>> Interesting..? >>> >>> There are some enclosed foto's, if someone wants to see them let =3D20= >>> me =3D3D20=3D3D >> >>> know. (Earlier I forewarded the mail with enclosures, but that =3D3D20= >>> doesn't seem to work - with an empty message as result). >>> >>> Henk Pakker >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: John Charles Herin >>> To: henk >>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 5:10 PM >>> Subject: Re: Lute Pegs >>> >>> >>> Dear Henk: >>> >>> If you send my your pegs, of another set of your choice, I can =20 >>> fit =3D20=3D > >>> =3D3D20 >>> your heads to my mechanism. >>> >>> I can match the color of the outer sha
[LUTE] Re: Pegs
Henk and Ed The French Vihuelist considers that installing the new pegs =20 does not make the peg-head more fragile. He argues that once they are =20= in place the lute undergoes much less strain than when at each =20 tuning, we tend to force the peg home to hold it there. He also says =20 that the pegs are not heavier than the original ones. Nevertheless, =20 the surgery is invasive, and the aspect of the pegs, close to will =20 not be "authentic". The pleasure obtained in ease of tuning, however, =20= he assures us is very great. Henk sent photos that should allow anyone to view the =20 process of installing the new pegs, to judge whether the it is worth it. I don't know whether these photos can be viewed easilly. I have =20= loaded them at two separate web pages. One is the French luth Yahoo =20 page and may need a code, the other is Photobucket and should allow =20 free viewing if the other doesn't work. It may be necessary to copy =20 the address into your browser. 1) Henk's own lute's peghead showing classic lute pegs http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D1 http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=20 20pegs/?action=3Dview¤t=3DLuteHenkPakker800x600.jpg 2) Widening the peg holes http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D2 http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=20 20pegs/?action=3Dview¤t=3DLuteReamingHoles.jpg 3) The end piece of a peg http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D3 http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=20 20pegs/?action=3Dview¤t=3Dmillingluteheads.jpg 4) Completely repegged lute http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/ag-no3phile/Mechanical%=20 20pegs/?action=3Dview¤t=3DLutePeghedComplete.jpg http://fr.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/photos/view/e772?b=3D4 Anthony Le 29 sept. 07 =E0 12:58, Anthony Hind a =E9crit : > Henk > A vihuelist on the French list reports he has adapted these pegs = =20 > himself for his vihuela (or rather vice versa) and tells us they =20 > are very pleasant indeed. Only the price, 270 USD for 12 pegs, he =20 > says, prevents him from equiping all his instruments. > > However, you do have to widen the peg-holes. The pegs themselve =20 > screw into the hole, and some gluing is involved. Therefore, having =20= > them fitted by a specialist, as you suggest, would seem much safer. > > However, perhaps, this still might weaken the peg-box structure; =20 > and if your lute is an exact copy of a historic lute, the pegs may =20 > no longer look the part. Unless they can exactly match the outside =20 > shape. > Fear that these pegs could perhaps be heavier than the originals, =20 > which could effect the sound, has been contradicted by the =20 > Vihuelist, who says they seem as light as his original pegs. > Anthony > > The explanations are here : > http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/message/5743 > > Le 29 sept. 07 =3DE0 11:52, henk a =3DE9crit : > >> Interesting..? >> >> There are some enclosed foto's, if someone wants to see them let =20 >> me =3D20=3D > >> know. (Earlier I forewarded the mail with enclosures, but that =3D20 >> doesn't seem to work - with an empty message as result). >> >> Henk Pakker >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: John Charles Herin >> To: henk >> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 5:10 PM >> Subject: Re: Lute Pegs >> >> >> Dear Henk: >> >> If you send my your pegs, of another set of your choice, I can fit =20= >> =3D20 >> your heads to my mechanism. >> >> I can match the color of the outer shank to ebony or rosewood =3D20 >> heads. The portion of the shank within the peg box wall will be =3D20 >> black in either case. >> >> I have sold quite a few sets for lute. On customer Derek Bowers =20 >> of =3D20=3D > >> California, USA has over the years converted three instruments. >> >> Please let me know if I can help you. >> >> Sincerely >> >> Chuck Herin >> >> >> >> henk wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> Is it possible to make them for (baroque) lutes as well...? (see =20= >> =3D20 >> photo). >> >> Best regards, >> >> Henk Pakker >> The Netherlands >> -- >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
[LUTE] Re: Pegs
Henk A vihuelist on the French list reports he has adapted these pegs = =20 himself for his vihuela (or rather vice versa) and tells us they are =20 very pleasant indeed. Only the price, 270 USD for 12 pegs, he says, =20 prevents him from equiping all his instruments. However, you do have to widen the peg-holes. The pegs themselve screw =20= into the hole, and some gluing is involved. Therefore, having them =20 fitted by a specialist, as you suggest, would seem much safer. However, perhaps, this still might weaken the peg-box structure; and =20 if your lute is an exact copy of a historic lute, the pegs may no =20 longer look the part. Unless they can exactly match the outside shape. Fear that these pegs could perhaps be heavier than the originals, =20 which could effect the sound, has been contradicted by the Vihuelist, =20= who says they seem as light as his original pegs. Anthony The explanations are here : http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/message/5743 Le 29 sept. 07 =E0 11:52, henk a =E9crit : > Interesting..? > > There are some enclosed foto's, if someone wants to see them let me =20= > know. (Earlier I forewarded the mail with enclosures, but that =20 > doesn't seem to work - with an empty message as result). > > Henk Pakker > > > - Original Message - > From: John Charles Herin > To: henk > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: Lute Pegs > > > Dear Henk: > > If you send my your pegs, of another set of your choice, I can fit =20 > your heads to my mechanism. > > I can match the color of the outer shank to ebony or rosewood =20 > heads. The portion of the shank within the peg box wall will be =20 > black in either case. > > I have sold quite a few sets for lute. On customer Derek Bowers of =20= > California, USA has over the years converted three instruments. > > Please let me know if I can help you. > > Sincerely > > Chuck Herin > > > > henk wrote: > > Hello, > > Is it possible to make them for (baroque) lutes as well...? (see =20 > photo). > > Best regards, > > Henk Pakker > The Netherlands > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
