Re: [M100] DVI + Floppy Emulation

[grima...@gmail.com]

I just want to say, I finally replicated your project Jerry!

Everything works great! The only modification I made was to set cskew=1.
Formatting and writing to disk didn’t work correctly until I did that.

After I got that working, I too switched the drive jumpers and got the DVI
to boot off of the Gotek.

Very happy with the results.

Best,
George

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 6:14 PM Jeffrey Birt  wrote:

> Great info Jerry!
>
>
>
> Jeff Birt
>
>
>
> *From:* M100  *On Behalf Of *Jerry
> Davis
> *Sent:* Monday, May 24, 2021 11:32 AM
> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com
> *Subject:* Re: [M100] DVI + Floppy Emulation
>
>
>
> Yes.  I attached one to my DVI a few weeks ago.
>
>
>
> I purchased a Gotek SFR1M44-U100 from Amazon.  The Gotek is a 3.5" drive
> format.  To mount the Gotek into the 5.25" drive bay that the DVI has I
> also purchased the following:
>
>
>
> (1) Startek 3.5" to 5.25" front bay adapter (Amazon)
>
> (1) Kentek 6" adapter from 4-Pin Male Molex 5.25" drive power connector to
> 4-pin Female 3.5" drive power connector (Amazon)
>
> (1) 34-Pin Card Edge to IDC Connector Adapter - 5.25" to 3.5" Floppy Cable
> (eBay)
>
> (1) Gigastone Z90 32GB USB 3.1 Flash Drive (Amazon)
>
>
>
> The flash drive I purchased is very short.  I didn't want a USB drive
> sticking way out from the front because it gets in the way.  32GB is
> massive overkill in terms of space for disk images but that's what was
> available in a small package for a good price.
>
>
>
> I installed the latest version of "flashfloppy" by Keir Fraser (and many
> other contributors) onto the Gotek using the instructions on the
> flashfloppy Githib Wiki.  The Gotek I received had the Artery chip
> installed which required a special build at first but I believe is now
> supported on the newest builds.  I saw a note on the flashfloppy discussion
> board that folks were having fewer problems with Artery-based Gotek drives
> when using flash drives supporting USB 3.1.  That's why I made sure I
> bought a USB drive with USB 3.1.  That may be the standard today so getting
> USB 3.1 may be unavoidable.
>
>
>
> I loaded the flashfloppy software onto the Gotek using the instructions
> and Youtube links contained in the flashfloppy Github Wiki.  Some Gotek
> hardware versions have to be programmed with a USB-to-TTL cable attached to
> header pins you soldered to the Gotek board, other hardware versions could
> be programmed using only a USB-to-USB cable.  The Gotek hardware is subject
> to change so be sure to check the Wiki for the hardware version you
> receive.  There is a lot of information on Gotek programming and hardware
> upgrades that will help get you going on Youtube.
>
>
>
> To start, I kept the original 180K floppy installed as Drive 0 and the
> Gotek installed as Drive 1.  I copied the DOS system disk over to the Gotek
> and then reversed the drives.  My DVI now boots from the Gotek, and the
> physical floppy drive is available for creating floppy images from physical
> media.  Switching between the system disk and an application disk is done
> by pushing the image selector buttons and cycling through the images on the
> flash drive.
>
>
>
> The hardware upgrades available for the Gotek include adding an LCD
> display and a rotary encoder.  I didn't do any of these as I wanted to make
> sure I could get the stock Gotek running before attempting any
> modifications.  I may go back to these at a later date.
>
>
>
> My FF.CFG which configures flashfloppy features is mostly stock and
> contains the following entries:
>
>
>
> interface = ibmpc
> host = unspecified
> pin02 = nc
> pin34 = nc
> write-protect = no
> side-select-glitch-filter = 0
> track-change = instant
> write-drain = instant
> index-suppression = yes
> head-settle-ms = 12
> motor-delay = ignore
> chgrst = step
> ejected-on-startup = no
> image-on-startup = last
> display-probe-ms = 3000
> autoselect-file-secs = 2
> autoselect-folder-secs = 2
> folder-sort = always
> sort-priority = folders
> nav-mode = default
> nav-loop = yes
> twobutton-action = zero
> rotary = none
> indexed-prefix = "DSKA"
> display-type = auto
> oled-font = 6x13
> oled-contrast = 143
> display-order = default
> display-off-secs = 60
> display-on-activity = yes
> display-scroll-rate = 200
> display-scroll-pause = 2000
> nav-scroll-rate = 80
> nav-scroll-pause = 300
> step-volume = 10
> da-report-version = ""
> extend-image = yes
>
>
>
> My IMG.CFG file which defines the cylinders, heads, and sectors for the
> 180K disk format used by the DVI looks like:
&g

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[grima...@gmail.com]

Thanks Ken, worked like a charm!

On Sat, Feb 25, 2023 at 5:29 AM B 9  wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:10 PM Kenneth Pettit 
> wrote:
>
> Or you can look at the active ROWs, COLs addresses
>>
>> M100:
>>ROWS: F63Bh   will be 8 or 25
>>COLS: F63Ch   will be 40 or 80
>>
>> T200:
>>ROWS: EF08H   will be 16 or 25
>>COLS: EF09H   will be 40 or 80
>>
> Ken, that is pretty nifty! Do you know if any other values are ever
> assigned to ROWS or COLS? For example, did the “VIEW 80” Option ROM (which
> showed 60 columns on a Model 100) change COLS to 60?
>
> Also, I’m curious whether that BASIC routine I shared earlier for
> detecting the screen size (?CHR$(27)"Y~~"; : RO=CSRLIN+1: CO=POS(0)+1)
> would have any benefit compared to just reading the values directly.
> Perhaps it might be more portable, but I seem to recall the PC-8201A may
> have had a different name for CSRLIN.
>
> —b9
>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[B 9]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:10 PM Kenneth Pettit  wrote:

Or you can look at the active ROWs, COLs addresses
>
> M100:
>ROWS: F63Bh   will be 8 or 25
>COLS: F63Ch   will be 40 or 80
>
> T200:
>ROWS: EF08H   will be 16 or 25
>COLS: EF09H   will be 40 or 80
>
Ken, that is pretty nifty! Do you know if any other values are ever
assigned to ROWS or COLS? For example, did the “VIEW 80” Option ROM (which
showed 60 columns on a Model 100) change COLS to 60?

Also, I’m curious whether that BASIC routine I shared earlier for detecting
the screen size (?CHR$(27)"Y~~"; : RO=CSRLIN+1: CO=POS(0)+1) would have any
benefit compared to just reading the values directly. Perhaps it might be
more portable, but I seem to recall the PC-8201A may have had a different
name for CSRLIN.

—b9

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[B 9]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 5:37 PM Stephen Adolph twospru...@gmail.com
 wrote:

I'm back at this.
> In the emulator I am working on. Ow, I have to redo the fonts.  I'm free
> to use whatever I want.
>
> So, which one of these fonts is actually used by the dvi?  The 8x8 or the
> 7x8?
>
I don’t have a DVI, but my understanding is that both are used, depending
upon whether you set the display to 40- or 80-columns. The commands WIDTH 40
and WIDTH 80 switch between the two.

Note that the DVI from Radio-Shack doesn’t allow PSET/PRESET to address
individual pixels, so the width difference between the fonts probably
wasn’t seen as a big deal. If I recall correctly, the NEC PC-8201A’s video
interface — which does allow pixel addressing and colors — handles the
problem by always specifying coordinates using a virtual high-resolution
grid which is mapped onto whatever resolution is actually displayed.

—b9

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Kenneth Pettit]

Hey George,

When you execute SCREEN 0 or SCREEN 1, it sets a variable indicating the 
selected screen at the following addresses:


M100:  F638H
T200:   EF06H

This will be 0 for LCD or 1 for DVI.

Or you can look at the active ROWs, COLs addresses

M100:
   ROWS: F63Bh   will be 8 or 25
   COLS: F63Ch   will be 40 or 80

T200:
   ROWS: EF08H   will be 16 or 25
   COLS: EF09H   will be 40 or 80

I don't believe there is a copy of DVI contents in RAM anywhere. For an 
80x25 display, this would be 2000 bytes of data.


Ken

On 2/24/23 8:14 AM, grima...@gmail.com wrote:

Random questions.

1. Is there an easy way to identify from BASIC, a computer which is 
connected to a DVI.
2. Is there a range of memory that I can access from BASIC that 
mirrors the DVI screen contents?


Basically, I've updated Text Sweeper to properly ID the model 200 and 
check the right LCD memory locations, but now I am facing a similar 
issue with the DVI system.


-George

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 11:04 AM Brian K. White  
wrote:


nuthin toit

On 2/24/23 09:27, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> Brian thanks again for posting the ROMs.
> They dropped directly into my new project unmodified!
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 8:36 PM Stephen Adolph
 > wrote:
>
>     I'm back at this.
>     In the emulator I am working on. Ow, I have to redo the
fonts.  I'm
>     free to use whatever I want.
>
>     So, which one of these fonts is actually used by the dvi? 
The 8x8
>     or the 7x8?
>
>
>
>     On Thursday, January 28, 2021, Tom Wilson      > wrote:
>
>         Ooh! There are actually two fonts in the 4K ROM
>
>         Here's the second one
>         image.png
>
>         This is the same font, but with only 7 bits used. I'm
betting
>         this is the same as the internal font on the M100
itself. Here's
>         one of the characters (255) for comparison:
>
>         Bank 0:
>         image.png
>
>         Bank 1:
>         image.png
>
>
>         Tom Wilson
> wilso...@gmail.com 
>         (619)940-6311
>
>
>
>         On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 4:09 PM Tom Wilson
         > wrote:
>
>             Hey, the file works with my Commodore font editor! 
=)  I'm
>             totally going to add this as an optional font in my
terminal
>             emulator.
>
>             image.png
>
>
>
>             Tom Wilson
> wilso...@gmail.com 
>             (619)940-6311
>
>
>
>             On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 1:53 PM Jim Anderson
>             mailto:jim.ander...@kpu.ca>>
wrote:
>
>                  > -Original Message-
>                  > If you're going to do that much, then I will grab
>                 some more pics with a
>                  > better camera and a tripod so my hand isn't
moving,
>                 and manual focus.
>                  > Maybe even a good straight-on centered shot
without
>                 glare from the room
>                  > lights. Maybe with manual controls I can get
a shot
>                 in the dark without
>                  > the text blooming.
>
>                 You know what, I realize that I went straight to
that
>                 screen photo image because I was looking for a clear
>                 image that had my XX pattern in 80-column
mode...
>                 and it's really not so blurry, but the capture in
>                 "Snapshot_20210127_233755.jpg" is sharper and
does have
>                 the full character set showing.  Even though they're
>                 flanked by square brackets I think I can work
with it.
>                 (the square brackets don't go to the full left
and right
>                 extent of the character cell, that's why I used X.)
>                 Don't worry about going to any trouble for a sharper
>                 screen photo.  For my cleanup/rescaling of the
original
>                 font I've been working off a handheld iphone
photo of my
>                 monitor.
>
>                 I also whipped something up to display the ROM
data as
>                 large block pixels for an absolute reference to the
>                 original intended shapes so I think I've got
everything
>                 I need (except time) :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                          jim
>

-- 
bkw

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[grima...@gmail.com]

Random questions.

1. Is there an easy way to identify from BASIC, a computer which is
connected to a DVI.
2. Is there a range of memory that I can access from BASIC that mirrors the
DVI screen contents?

Basically, I've updated Text Sweeper to properly ID the model 200 and check
the right LCD memory locations, but now I am facing a similar issue with
the DVI system.

-George

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 11:04 AM Brian K. White 
wrote:

> nuthin toit
>
> On 2/24/23 09:27, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> > Brian thanks again for posting the ROMs.
> > They dropped directly into my new project unmodified!
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 8:36 PM Stephen Adolph  > > wrote:
> >
> > I'm back at this.
> > In the emulator I am working on. Ow, I have to redo the fonts.  I'm
> > free to use whatever I want.
> >
> > So, which one of these fonts is actually used by the dvi?  The 8x8
> > or the 7x8?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, January 28, 2021, Tom Wilson  > > wrote:
> >
> > Ooh! There are actually two fonts in the 4K ROM
> >
> > Here's the second one
> > image.png
> >
> > This is the same font, but with only 7 bits used. I'm betting
> > this is the same as the internal font on the M100 itself. Here's
> > one of the characters (255) for comparison:
> >
> > Bank 0:
> > image.png
> >
> > Bank 1:
> > image.png
> >
> >
> > Tom Wilson
> > wilso...@gmail.com 
> > (619)940-6311
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 4:09 PM Tom Wilson  > > wrote:
> >
> > Hey, the file works with my Commodore font editor!  =)  I'm
> > totally going to add this as an optional font in my terminal
> > emulator.
> >
> > image.png
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom Wilson
> > wilso...@gmail.com 
> > (619)940-6311
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 1:53 PM Jim Anderson
> > mailto:jim.ander...@kpu.ca>> wrote:
> >
> >  > -Original Message-
> >  > If you're going to do that much, then I will grab
> > some more pics with a
> >  > better camera and a tripod so my hand isn't moving,
> > and manual focus.
> >  > Maybe even a good straight-on centered shot without
> > glare from the room
> >  > lights. Maybe with manual controls I can get a shot
> > in the dark without
> >  > the text blooming.
> >
> > You know what, I realize that I went straight to that
> > screen photo image because I was looking for a clear
> > image that had my XX pattern in 80-column mode...
> > and it's really not so blurry, but the capture in
> > "Snapshot_20210127_233755.jpg" is sharper and does have
> > the full character set showing.  Even though they're
> > flanked by square brackets I think I can work with it.
> > (the square brackets don't go to the full left and right
> > extent of the character cell, that's why I used X.)
> > Don't worry about going to any trouble for a sharper
> > screen photo.  For my cleanup/rescaling of the original
> > font I've been working off a handheld iphone photo of my
> > monitor.
> >
> > I also whipped something up to display the ROM data as
> > large block pixels for an absolute reference to the
> > original intended shapes so I think I've got everything
> > I need (except time) :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  jim
> >
>
> --
> bkw
>
>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Brian K. White]

nuthin toit

On 2/24/23 09:27, Stephen Adolph wrote:

Brian thanks again for posting the ROMs.
They dropped directly into my new project unmodified!

On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 8:36 PM Stephen Adolph > wrote:


I'm back at this.
In the emulator I am working on. Ow, I have to redo the fonts.  I'm
free to use whatever I want.

So, which one of these fonts is actually used by the dvi?  The 8x8
or the 7x8?



On Thursday, January 28, 2021, Tom Wilson mailto:wilso...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Ooh! There are actually two fonts in the 4K ROM

Here's the second one
image.png

This is the same font, but with only 7 bits used. I'm betting
this is the same as the internal font on the M100 itself. Here's
one of the characters (255) for comparison:

Bank 0:
image.png

Bank 1:
image.png


Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com 
(619)940-6311



On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 4:09 PM Tom Wilson mailto:wilso...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hey, the file works with my Commodore font editor!  =)  I'm
totally going to add this as an optional font in my terminal
emulator.

image.png



Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com 
(619)940-6311



On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 1:53 PM Jim Anderson
mailto:jim.ander...@kpu.ca>> wrote:

 > -Original Message-
 > If you're going to do that much, then I will grab
some more pics with a
 > better camera and a tripod so my hand isn't moving,
and manual focus.
 > Maybe even a good straight-on centered shot without
glare from the room
 > lights. Maybe with manual controls I can get a shot
in the dark without
 > the text blooming.

You know what, I realize that I went straight to that
screen photo image because I was looking for a clear
image that had my XX pattern in 80-column mode...
and it's really not so blurry, but the capture in
"Snapshot_20210127_233755.jpg" is sharper and does have
the full character set showing.  Even though they're
flanked by square brackets I think I can work with it. 
(the square brackets don't go to the full left and right
extent of the character cell, that's why I used X.) 
Don't worry about going to any trouble for a sharper

screen photo.  For my cleanup/rescaling of the original
font I've been working off a handheld iphone photo of my
monitor.

I also whipped something up to display the ROM data as
large block pixels for an absolute reference to the
original intended shapes so I think I've got everything
I need (except time) :)







         jim



--
bkw

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Stephen Adolph]

Brian thanks again for posting the ROMs.
They dropped directly into my new project unmodified!

On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 8:36 PM Stephen Adolph  wrote:

> I'm back at this.
> In the emulator I am working on. Ow, I have to redo the fonts.  I'm free
> to use whatever I want.
>
> So, which one of these fonts is actually used by the dvi?  The 8x8 or the
> 7x8?
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 28, 2021, Tom Wilson  wrote:
>
>> Ooh! There are actually two fonts in the 4K ROM
>>
>> Here's the second one
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>> This is the same font, but with only 7 bits used. I'm betting this is the
>> same as the internal font on the M100 itself. Here's one of the characters
>> (255) for comparison:
>>
>> Bank 0:
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>> Bank 1:
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>>
>> Tom Wilson
>> wilso...@gmail.com
>> (619)940-6311
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 4:09 PM Tom Wilson  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey, the file works with my Commodore font editor!  =)  I'm totally
>>> going to add this as an optional font in my terminal emulator.
>>>
>>> [image: image.png]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom Wilson
>>> wilso...@gmail.com
>>> (619)940-6311
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 1:53 PM Jim Anderson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 > -Original Message-
 > If you're going to do that much, then I will grab some more pics with
 a
 > better camera and a tripod so my hand isn't moving, and manual focus.
 > Maybe even a good straight-on centered shot without glare from the
 room
 > lights. Maybe with manual controls I can get a shot in the dark
 without
 > the text blooming.

 You know what, I realize that I went straight to that screen photo
 image because I was looking for a clear image that had my XX pattern
 in 80-column mode... and it's really not so blurry, but the capture in
 "Snapshot_20210127_233755.jpg" is sharper and does have the full character
 set showing.  Even though they're flanked by square brackets I think I can
 work with it.  (the square brackets don't go to the full left and right
 extent of the character cell, that's why I used X.)  Don't worry about
 going to any trouble for a sharper screen photo.  For my cleanup/rescaling
 of the original font I've been working off a handheld iphone photo of my
 monitor.

 I also whipped something up to display the ROM data as large block
 pixels for an absolute reference to the original intended shapes so I think
 I've got everything I need (except time) :)







 jim

>>>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Stephen Adolph]

I'm back at this.
In the emulator I am working on. Ow, I have to redo the fonts.  I'm free to
use whatever I want.

So, which one of these fonts is actually used by the dvi?  The 8x8 or the
7x8?



On Thursday, January 28, 2021, Tom Wilson  wrote:

> Ooh! There are actually two fonts in the 4K ROM
>
> Here's the second one
> [image: image.png]
>
> This is the same font, but with only 7 bits used. I'm betting this is the
> same as the internal font on the M100 itself. Here's one of the characters
> (255) for comparison:
>
> Bank 0:
> [image: image.png]
>
> Bank 1:
> [image: image.png]
>
>
> Tom Wilson
> wilso...@gmail.com
> (619)940-6311
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 4:09 PM Tom Wilson  wrote:
>
>> Hey, the file works with my Commodore font editor!  =)  I'm totally going
>> to add this as an optional font in my terminal emulator.
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom Wilson
>> wilso...@gmail.com
>> (619)940-6311
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 1:53 PM Jim Anderson  wrote:
>>
>>> > -Original Message-
>>> > If you're going to do that much, then I will grab some more pics with a
>>> > better camera and a tripod so my hand isn't moving, and manual focus.
>>> > Maybe even a good straight-on centered shot without glare from the room
>>> > lights. Maybe with manual controls I can get a shot in the dark without
>>> > the text blooming.
>>>
>>> You know what, I realize that I went straight to that screen photo image
>>> because I was looking for a clear image that had my XX pattern in
>>> 80-column mode... and it's really not so blurry, but the capture in
>>> "Snapshot_20210127_233755.jpg" is sharper and does have the full character
>>> set showing.  Even though they're flanked by square brackets I think I can
>>> work with it.  (the square brackets don't go to the full left and right
>>> extent of the character cell, that's why I used X.)  Don't worry about
>>> going to any trouble for a sharper screen photo.  For my cleanup/rescaling
>>> of the original font I've been working off a handheld iphone photo of my
>>> monitor.
>>>
>>> I also whipped something up to display the ROM data as large block
>>> pixels for an absolute reference to the original intended shapes so I think
>>> I've got everything I need (except time) :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> jim
>>>
>>

Re: [M100] DVI

[Mike Stein]

Thanks for sharing; the price sounds reasonable, I don't think it'll take
much to fix that flickering

Mine has two normal 5 1/4 drives although they are in fact two-sided; I
added the second drive myself and when I couldn't find a drive to match the
original TEC drive I installed a pair of Panasonics.

I haven't dug it out for a while but it is indeed pretty clean and although
I haven't used it very much recently I've never had any problems with it.

The 3.5" drives were just a fun experiment to see if they would work
without any modifications; they did indeed, but of course without modifying
the DVI firmware you still only have 180 KB per drive, regardless of
single/double sided or 5 1/4 vs. 3.5"

Nevertheless, if you don't mind being incompatible with anyone else there
may be some slight advantage to using 3.5" diskettes; easier to come by,
easier to store, maybe more reliable dpending on whom you listen to, etc.

Hope you get that flicker sorted and have fun with it!

m


On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 8:16 PM Spencer  wrote:

> Hello Mike.
>
> I found it on ebay and paid $140 plus shipping/taxes.
>
> Does your have 2 5 1/4" or a mix of 5 1/4 and 3.5" drives?
>
> Your pics show the unit as really clean.  Did you have to do any repairs
> to it?
>
> Thanks
>
> On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 02:28:28 PM EDT, Mike Stein <
> mhs.st...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I did find some pictures from when I was playing with 3.5" drives:
>
> [image: image.jpeg]
> [image: image.jpeg]
> [image: image.jpeg]
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 11:12 AM Spencer  wrote:
>
> Hello Mike.
>
> I actually found an Tandy unit, but the video flickers in and out.  Is
> yours something you did or a Tandy unit? Would you mind sending a pic or
> two?
>
> Thanks!
>
>

Re: [M100] DVI

[Spencer]

 Hello Mike.
I found it on ebay and paid $140 plus shipping/taxes.
Does your have 2 5 1/4" or a mix of 5 1/4 and 3.5" drives?
Your pics show the unit as really clean.  Did you have to do any repairs to it?
Thanks
On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 02:28:28 PM EDT, Mike Stein 
 wrote:  
 
 I did find some pictures from when I was playing with 3.5" drives:

On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 11:12 AM Spencer  wrote:

Hello Mike.
I actually found an Tandy unit, but the video flickers in and out.  Is yours 
something you did or a Tandy unit? Would you mind sending a pic or two?
Thanks!
  

Re: [M100] DVI

[Mike Stein]

I did find some pictures from when I was playing with 3.5" drives:

[image: image.jpeg]
[image: image.jpeg]
[image: image.jpeg]

On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 11:12 AM Spencer  wrote:

> Hello Mike.
>
> I actually found an Tandy unit, but the video flickers in and out.  Is
> yours something you did or a Tandy unit? Would you mind sending a pic or
> two?
>
> Thanks!
>

Re: [M100] DVI Recap Question

[birt_j]

You will almost never find a vintage cap part number via a web search.
Typically, I will measure the can height, diameter and lead pitch. That
information along with the uF, voltage, etc. will be enough to find a
suitable modern part. 

 

Jeff Birt

 

From: M100  On Behalf Of Dan Eicher
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 3:47 PM
To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
Subject: [M100] DVI Recap Question

 

Hi, 

 

 I'm looking to finish ordering parts to recap the power supply on my DVI
26-3806.

 

 Jerry has already given me the first three hard parts.

 

 I have four left on my needy list.

 

 I found part numbers in the 26-3806 Service Manual.

 

Part   Description Manufacturer Part Number

 C102Cap, Elect 1µF/50V/+-20%   CEVG010A3N

 C105Cap, Elect 22µF/16V/+-20% CEVD220A3N

 C107Cap, Elect 1000µF/10V/+-20%  CEAC102A3N

 C108Cap, Elect 220µF/10V/+-20%CEVC221A3N

 

Can someone point me to a mouser part number that would be compatible?

 

I suspect part of the part number might specify the height of the device and
spacing of through holes?

 

Even Google, who knows everything, returns nothing in regard to the
manufacturer's part number.

 

Thanks in advance for your help. 

 

Re: [M100] DVI Recap Question

[Jerry Davis]

Here's the ones I ordered from Mouser when I recapped mine:

667-EEU-FK1C102
Mfr. #: EEU-FK1C102
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Radial Leaded Aluminum
Electrolytic Capacitors - Radial Leaded 16VDC 1000uF 20% AEC-Q200

Mouser #: 871-B41856C6227M000
Mfr. #: B41856C6227M000
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Radial Leaded Aluminum
Electrolytic Capacitors - Radial Leaded 50VDC 220uF 20% STD Leads

The 1uF and 22uF were replaced with general purpose capacitors I had in
inventory.  I don't have the part numbers for them.  Use the Mouser filter
to search for caps with the approximate physical size.  Just about anything
that fits will work (same value and voltage).

The recapped power supply was "burned in" for 48 hours under load just to
make sure nothing else was waiting to fail.  All DC voltages and ripple
voltages on C107and C108 checked good under test load and with the actual
DVI board and drives attached.  It has been running for almost a year off
and on since.

Jerry

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 3:47 PM Dan Eicher  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>  I'm looking to finish ordering parts to recap the power supply on my DVI
> 26-3806.
>
>  Jerry has already given me the first three hard parts.
>
>  I have four left on my needy list.
>
>  I found part numbers in the 26-3806 Service Manual.
>
> Part   Description Manufacturer Part Number
>  C102Cap, Elect 1µF/50V/+-20%   CEVG010A3N
>  C105Cap, Elect 22µF/16V/+-20% CEVD220A3N
>  C107Cap, Elect 1000µF/10V/+-20%  CEAC102A3N
>  C108Cap, Elect 220µF/10V/+-20%CEVC221A3N
>
> Can someone point me to a mouser part number that would be compatible?
>
> I suspect part of the part number might specify the height of the device
> and spacing of through holes?
>
> Even Google, who knows everything, returns nothing in regard to the
> manufacturer's part number.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
>

Re: [M100] DVI + Floppy Emulation

[Jerry Davis]

Yes.  I attached one to my DVI a few weeks ago.

I purchased a Gotek SFR1M44-U100 from Amazon.  The Gotek is a 3.5" drive
format.  To mount the Gotek into the 5.25" drive bay that the DVI has I
also purchased the following:

(1) Startek 3.5" to 5.25" front bay adapter (Amazon)
(1) Kentek 6" adapter from 4-Pin Male Molex 5.25" drive power connector to
4-pin Female 3.5" drive power connector (Amazon)
(1) 34-Pin Card Edge to IDC Connector Adapter - 5.25" to 3.5" Floppy Cable
(eBay)
(1) Gigastone Z90 32GB USB 3.1 Flash Drive (Amazon)

The flash drive I purchased is very short.  I didn't want a USB drive
sticking way out from the front because it gets in the way.  32GB is
massive overkill in terms of space for disk images but that's what was
available in a small package for a good price.

I installed the latest version of "flashfloppy" by Keir Fraser (and many
other contributors) onto the Gotek using the instructions on the
flashfloppy Githib Wiki.  The Gotek I received had the Artery chip
installed which required a special build at first but I believe is now
supported on the newest builds.  I saw a note on the flashfloppy discussion
board that folks were having fewer problems with Artery-based Gotek drives
when using flash drives supporting USB 3.1.  That's why I made sure I
bought a USB drive with USB 3.1.  That may be the standard today so getting
USB 3.1 may be unavoidable.

I loaded the flashfloppy software onto the Gotek using the instructions and
Youtube links contained in the flashfloppy Github Wiki.  Some Gotek
hardware versions have to be programmed with a USB-to-TTL cable attached to
header pins you soldered to the Gotek board, other hardware versions could
be programmed using only a USB-to-USB cable.  The Gotek hardware is subject
to change so be sure to check the Wiki for the hardware version you
receive.  There is a lot of information on Gotek programming and hardware
upgrades that will help get you going on Youtube.

To start, I kept the original 180K floppy installed as Drive 0 and the
Gotek installed as Drive 1.  I copied the DOS system disk over to the Gotek
and then reversed the drives.  My DVI now boots from the Gotek, and the
physical floppy drive is available for creating floppy images from physical
media.  Switching between the system disk and an application disk is done
by pushing the image selector buttons and cycling through the images on the
flash drive.

The hardware upgrades available for the Gotek include adding an LCD display
and a rotary encoder.  I didn't do any of these as I wanted to make sure I
could get the stock Gotek running before attempting any modifications.  I
may go back to these at a later date.

My FF.CFG which configures flashfloppy features is mostly stock and
contains the following entries:

interface = ibmpc
host = unspecified
pin02 = nc
pin34 = nc
write-protect = no
side-select-glitch-filter = 0
track-change = instant
write-drain = instant
index-suppression = yes
head-settle-ms = 12
motor-delay = ignore
chgrst = step
ejected-on-startup = no
image-on-startup = last
display-probe-ms = 3000
autoselect-file-secs = 2
autoselect-folder-secs = 2
folder-sort = always
sort-priority = folders
nav-mode = default
nav-loop = yes
twobutton-action = zero
rotary = none
indexed-prefix = "DSKA"
display-type = auto
oled-font = 6x13
oled-contrast = 143
display-order = default
display-off-secs = 60
display-on-activity = yes
display-scroll-rate = 200
display-scroll-pause = 2000
nav-scroll-rate = 80
nav-scroll-pause = 300
step-volume = 10
da-report-version = ""
extend-image = yes

My IMG.CFG file which defines the cylinders, heads, and sectors for the
180K disk format used by the DVI looks like:

[*.m100dvi.img]
cyls=40
heads=1
secs=18
bps=256
h=0

The configuration above works for me but could probably be tuned for better
performance.  I was able to format virtual disk images, write files to the
images, and read files from the images with no issues.  The DVI DOS copy
and backup utilities all worked as expected.

Hope this helps you.

Jerry


On Sun, May 23, 2021, 7:21 AM Dan Eicher  wrote:

> Anyone using a GoTek or HxC floppy emulator with a Tandy DVI?
>

Re: [M100] DVI + Floppy Emulation

[Gregory McGill]

Yes it's been done

On Sun, May 23, 2021, 5:21 AM Dan Eicher  wrote:

> Anyone using a GoTek or HxC floppy emulator with a Tandy DVI?
>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[C. Magaret]

If you end up making this as an actual font, I would love to get a copy.

Cheers,
CAM

> On Jan 28, 2021, at 16:09, Tom Wilson  wrote:
> 
> Hey, the file works with my Commodore font editor!  =)  I'm totally going to 
> add this as an optional font in my terminal emulator. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tom Wilson
> wilso...@gmail.com
> (619)940-6311 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 1:53 PM Jim Anderson  wrote:
> > -Original Message-
> > If you're going to do that much, then I will grab some more pics with a
> > better camera and a tripod so my hand isn't moving, and manual focus.
> > Maybe even a good straight-on centered shot without glare from the room
> > lights. Maybe with manual controls I can get a shot in the dark without
> > the text blooming.
> 
> You know what, I realize that I went straight to that screen photo image 
> because I was looking for a clear image that had my XX pattern in 
> 80-column mode... and it's really not so blurry, but the capture in 
> "Snapshot_20210127_233755.jpg" is sharper and does have the full character 
> set showing.  Even though they're flanked by square brackets I think I can 
> work with it.  (the square brackets don't go to the full left and right 
> extent of the character cell, that's why I used X.)  Don't worry about going 
> to any trouble for a sharper screen photo.  For my cleanup/rescaling of the 
> original font I've been working off a handheld iphone photo of my monitor.
> 
> I also whipped something up to display the ROM data as large block pixels for 
> an absolute reference to the original intended shapes so I think I've got 
> everything I need (except time) :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jim

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Tom Wilson]

Ooh! There are actually two fonts in the 4K ROM

Here's the second one
[image: image.png]

This is the same font, but with only 7 bits used. I'm betting this is the
same as the internal font on the M100 itself. Here's one of the characters
(255) for comparison:

Bank 0:
[image: image.png]

Bank 1:
[image: image.png]


Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311



On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 4:09 PM Tom Wilson  wrote:

> Hey, the file works with my Commodore font editor!  =)  I'm totally going
> to add this as an optional font in my terminal emulator.
>
> [image: image.png]
>
>
>
> Tom Wilson
> wilso...@gmail.com
> (619)940-6311
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 1:53 PM Jim Anderson  wrote:
>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > If you're going to do that much, then I will grab some more pics with a
>> > better camera and a tripod so my hand isn't moving, and manual focus.
>> > Maybe even a good straight-on centered shot without glare from the room
>> > lights. Maybe with manual controls I can get a shot in the dark without
>> > the text blooming.
>>
>> You know what, I realize that I went straight to that screen photo image
>> because I was looking for a clear image that had my XX pattern in
>> 80-column mode... and it's really not so blurry, but the capture in
>> "Snapshot_20210127_233755.jpg" is sharper and does have the full character
>> set showing.  Even though they're flanked by square brackets I think I can
>> work with it.  (the square brackets don't go to the full left and right
>> extent of the character cell, that's why I used X.)  Don't worry about
>> going to any trouble for a sharper screen photo.  For my cleanup/rescaling
>> of the original font I've been working off a handheld iphone photo of my
>> monitor.
>>
>> I also whipped something up to display the ROM data as large block pixels
>> for an absolute reference to the original intended shapes so I think I've
>> got everything I need (except time) :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> jim
>>
>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Brian White]

oh right. I thought you were making a standalone font.

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 9:03 PM Tom Wilson  wrote:

> It doesn't matter - all that actually matters is the format the terminal
> firmware expects in the font file. The terminal will decide the aspect
> ratio of the pixels based on the number of columns and rows and the display
> resolution.
>
>
> Tom Wilson
> wilso...@gmail.com
> (619)940-6311
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 4:34 PM Brian White  wrote:
>
>> The rom bit patterns are only 1/2 the story. The other half is the shape
>> of a pixel, which probably isn't square.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 4:53 PM Jim Anderson  wrote:
>>
>>> > -Original Message-
>>> > If you're going to do that much, then I will grab some more pics with a
>>> > better camera and a tripod so my hand isn't moving, and manual focus.
>>> > Maybe even a good straight-on centered shot without glare from the room
>>> > lights. Maybe with manual controls I can get a shot in the dark without
>>> > the text blooming.
>>>
>>> You know what, I realize that I went straight to that screen photo image
>>> because I was looking for a clear image that had my XX pattern in
>>> 80-column mode... and it's really not so blurry, but the capture in
>>> "Snapshot_20210127_233755.jpg" is sharper and does have the full character
>>> set showing.  Even though they're flanked by square brackets I think I can
>>> work with it.  (the square brackets don't go to the full left and right
>>> extent of the character cell, that's why I used X.)  Don't worry about
>>> going to any trouble for a sharper screen photo.  For my cleanup/rescaling
>>> of the original font I've been working off a handheld iphone photo of my
>>> monitor.
>>>
>>> I also whipped something up to display the ROM data as large block
>>> pixels for an absolute reference to the original intended shapes so I think
>>> I've got everything I need (except time) :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> jim
>>>
>>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Tom Wilson]

It doesn't matter - all that actually matters is the format the terminal
firmware expects in the font file. The terminal will decide the aspect
ratio of the pixels based on the number of columns and rows and the display
resolution.


Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311



On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 4:34 PM Brian White  wrote:

> The rom bit patterns are only 1/2 the story. The other half is the shape
> of a pixel, which probably isn't square.
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 4:53 PM Jim Anderson  wrote:
>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > If you're going to do that much, then I will grab some more pics with a
>> > better camera and a tripod so my hand isn't moving, and manual focus.
>> > Maybe even a good straight-on centered shot without glare from the room
>> > lights. Maybe with manual controls I can get a shot in the dark without
>> > the text blooming.
>>
>> You know what, I realize that I went straight to that screen photo image
>> because I was looking for a clear image that had my XX pattern in
>> 80-column mode... and it's really not so blurry, but the capture in
>> "Snapshot_20210127_233755.jpg" is sharper and does have the full character
>> set showing.  Even though they're flanked by square brackets I think I can
>> work with it.  (the square brackets don't go to the full left and right
>> extent of the character cell, that's why I used X.)  Don't worry about
>> going to any trouble for a sharper screen photo.  For my cleanup/rescaling
>> of the original font I've been working off a handheld iphone photo of my
>> monitor.
>>
>> I also whipped something up to display the ROM data as large block pixels
>> for an absolute reference to the original intended shapes so I think I've
>> got everything I need (except time) :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> jim
>>
>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Brian White]

The rom bit patterns are only 1/2 the story. The other half is the shape of
a pixel, which probably isn't square.

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 4:53 PM Jim Anderson  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > If you're going to do that much, then I will grab some more pics with a
> > better camera and a tripod so my hand isn't moving, and manual focus.
> > Maybe even a good straight-on centered shot without glare from the room
> > lights. Maybe with manual controls I can get a shot in the dark without
> > the text blooming.
>
> You know what, I realize that I went straight to that screen photo image
> because I was looking for a clear image that had my XX pattern in
> 80-column mode... and it's really not so blurry, but the capture in
> "Snapshot_20210127_233755.jpg" is sharper and does have the full character
> set showing.  Even though they're flanked by square brackets I think I can
> work with it.  (the square brackets don't go to the full left and right
> extent of the character cell, that's why I used X.)  Don't worry about
> going to any trouble for a sharper screen photo.  For my cleanup/rescaling
> of the original font I've been working off a handheld iphone photo of my
> monitor.
>
> I also whipped something up to display the ROM data as large block pixels
> for an absolute reference to the original intended shapes so I think I've
> got everything I need (except time) :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> jim
>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Tom Wilson]

Hey, the file works with my Commodore font editor!  =)  I'm totally going
to add this as an optional font in my terminal emulator.

[image: image.png]



Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311



On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 1:53 PM Jim Anderson  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > If you're going to do that much, then I will grab some more pics with a
> > better camera and a tripod so my hand isn't moving, and manual focus.
> > Maybe even a good straight-on centered shot without glare from the room
> > lights. Maybe with manual controls I can get a shot in the dark without
> > the text blooming.
>
> You know what, I realize that I went straight to that screen photo image
> because I was looking for a clear image that had my XX pattern in
> 80-column mode... and it's really not so blurry, but the capture in
> "Snapshot_20210127_233755.jpg" is sharper and does have the full character
> set showing.  Even though they're flanked by square brackets I think I can
> work with it.  (the square brackets don't go to the full left and right
> extent of the character cell, that's why I used X.)  Don't worry about
> going to any trouble for a sharper screen photo.  For my cleanup/rescaling
> of the original font I've been working off a handheld iphone photo of my
> monitor.
>
> I also whipped something up to display the ROM data as large block pixels
> for an absolute reference to the original intended shapes so I think I've
> got everything I need (except time) :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> jim
>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> If you're going to do that much, then I will grab some more pics with a
> better camera and a tripod so my hand isn't moving, and manual focus.
> Maybe even a good straight-on centered shot without glare from the room
> lights. Maybe with manual controls I can get a shot in the dark without
> the text blooming.

You know what, I realize that I went straight to that screen photo image 
because I was looking for a clear image that had my XX pattern in 
80-column mode... and it's really not so blurry, but the capture in 
"Snapshot_20210127_233755.jpg" is sharper and does have the full character set 
showing.  Even though they're flanked by square brackets I think I can work 
with it.  (the square brackets don't go to the full left and right extent of 
the character cell, that's why I used X.)  Don't worry about going to any 
trouble for a sharper screen photo.  For my cleanup/rescaling of the original 
font I've been working off a handheld iphone photo of my monitor.

I also whipped something up to display the ROM data as large block pixels for 
an absolute reference to the original intended shapes so I think I've got 
everything I need (except time) :)







jim

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Brian K. White]

On 1/28/21 1:17 PM, Jim Anderson wrote:

Hey, this is great - I think the photo from the LCD monitor output is the most 
useful - I have actually been using a photo I took of the original font output 
(flanked by X characters for scale and alignment) which I enlarge on-screen and 
overlay a 6x20 grid so I can visualize where the pixels will land as I clean up the 
original font.  I can do the same with your photo to make a scaled & cleaned-up 
DVI-inspired font.


If you're going to do that much, then I will grab some more pics with a 
better camera and a tripod so my hand isn't moving, and manual focus. 
Maybe even a good straight-on centered shot without glare from the room 
lights. Maybe with manual controls I can get a shot in the dark without 
the text blooming.


It was difficult to get a clear pic with my phone, mostly because for 
this you can't use the flash, and that's pretty much the only way to get 
good clear shots with my phone is with the flash. I guess the flash 
makes a shorter exposure time.


--
bkw

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Jim Anderson]

Hey, this is great - I think the photo from the LCD monitor output is the most 
useful - I have actually been using a photo I took of the original font output 
(flanked by X characters for scale and alignment) which I enlarge on-screen and 
overlay a 6x20 grid so I can visualize where the pixels will land as I clean up 
the original font.  I can do the same with your photo to make a scaled & 
cleaned-up DVI-inspired font.







jim

> -Original Message-
> From: M100 [mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] On Behalf Of Brian
> K. White
> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 22:15
> To: m...@bitchin100.com
> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI character set
> 
> CAUTION External Sender: Do not click links or open attachments unless
> you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
> 
> 
> Added a few more snapshots from a low-end capture device with the
> composite from the DVI connected directly to the composite input of the
> capture device.
> The pics look bad, but they also look like what a typical small cheap
> color crt actually looks like, blurry and and with the red/blue
> artifacts.
> 
> On 1/28/21 12:42 AM, Brian White wrote:
> > I've put some snapshots from a video capture device up in the same
> > directory with the rom dumps.
> >
> > The image is scaled from composite 4:3 input to 1080p 16:9 hdmi
> > output, but not stretched. The aspect ratio is preserved.
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 4:37 PM Jim Anderson  > <mailto:jim.ander...@kpu.ca>> wrote:
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > Hey DVI owners,
> > >
> > > Would someone mind doing a bit if information mining?
> > >
> > > I would love to get the font bitmap for the DVI.  Jim Anderson
> is
> > > working on improvements to MVT100 firmware and it would be cool
> > to copy
> > > and use these fonts.
> >
> > Something which would also be very useful would be a photo of the
> > DVI character set as displayed on-screen so I can get a sense of
> > the relative size and displayed shape of each character, since the
> > raw bitmap will likely need to be modified (at least to fit the
> > proportions of the new bitmap).
> >
> > If it's not too much trouble, a sharp photo of the DVI screen (in
> > WIDTH 80 mode) displaying the output of the following program
> > would be really helpful (just email the photo directly to me as I
> > will want the full resolution copy and it'll be at least a few
> mb).
> >
> > 10 screen 1,1
> > 20 width 80
> > 30 for c=32 to 255
> > 40 print "X";chr$(c);"X ";
> > 50 next c
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > jim
> >
> 
> 
> --
> bkw

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Brian K. White]

Added a few more snapshots from a low-end capture device with the 
composite from the DVI connected directly to the composite input of the 
capture device.
The pics look bad, but they also look like what a typical small cheap 
color crt actually looks like, blurry and and with the red/blue artifacts.


On 1/28/21 12:42 AM, Brian White wrote:
I've put some snapshots from a video capture device up in the same 
directory with the rom dumps.


The image is scaled from composite 4:3 input to 1080p 16:9 hdmi 
output, but not stretched. The aspect ratio is preserved.


On Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 4:37 PM Jim Anderson > wrote:


> -Original Message-
> Hey DVI owners,
>
> Would someone mind doing a bit if information mining?
>
> I would love to get the font bitmap for the DVI.  Jim Anderson is
> working on improvements to MVT100 firmware and it would be cool
to copy
> and use these fonts.

Something which would also be very useful would be a photo of the
DVI character set as displayed on-screen so I can get a sense of
the relative size and displayed shape of each character, since the
raw bitmap will likely need to be modified (at least to fit the
proportions of the new bitmap).

If it's not too much trouble, a sharp photo of the DVI screen (in
WIDTH 80 mode) displaying the output of the following program
would be really helpful (just email the photo directly to me as I
will want the full resolution copy and it'll be at least a few mb).

10 screen 1,1
20 width 80
30 for c=32 to 255
40 print "X";chr$(c);"X ";
50 next c







        jim




--
bkw

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Brian White]

I've put some snapshots from a video capture device up in the same
directory with the rom dumps.

The image is scaled from composite 4:3 input to 1080p 16:9 hdmi output, but
not stretched. The aspect ratio is preserved.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 4:37 PM Jim Anderson  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > Hey DVI owners,
> >
> > Would someone mind doing a bit if information mining?
> >
> > I would love to get the font bitmap for the DVI.  Jim Anderson is
> > working on improvements to MVT100 firmware and it would be cool to copy
> > and use these fonts.
>
> Something which would also be very useful would be a photo of the DVI
> character set as displayed on-screen so I can get a sense of the relative
> size and displayed shape of each character, since the raw bitmap will
> likely need to be modified (at least to fit the proportions of the new
> bitmap).
>
> If it's not too much trouble, a sharp photo of the DVI screen (in WIDTH 80
> mode) displaying the output of the following program would be really
> helpful (just email the photo directly to me as I will want the full
> resolution copy and it'll be at least a few mb).
>
> 10 screen 1,1
> 20 width 80
> 30 for c=32 to 255
> 40 print "X";chr$(c);"X ";
> 50 next c
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> jim
>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Brian White]

The service manual pg 6-5 says there was another rom image for UK, Belgium,
& Australia.

This one was for USA & Canada.

And it says this same thing for both M17 and M40.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 1:05 PM Stephen Adolph  wrote:

> looks like 8x8 characters, 2KB total.
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:00 PM Stephen Adolph 
> wrote:
>
>> super cool thanks for the quick turn!
>> Steve
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 11:52 AM Brian K. White 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/26/21 10:42 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>>> > Hey DVI owners,
>>> >
>>> > Would someone mind doing a bit if information mining?
>>> >
>>> > I would love to get the font bitmap for the DVI.  Jim Anderson is
>>> > working on improvements to MVT100 firmware and it would be cool to
>>> copy
>>> > and use these fonts.
>>> >
>>> > It is stored in a 4 K eprom M17.  So I am wondering if someone could
>>> > pull the chip and read the eprom data?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks
>>> > Steve
>>> >
>>>
>>> Here ya go
>>>
>>>
>>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1yqVh_mj5vtBJhYng-Uitvsjnykq0Knnt?usp=sharing
>>>
>>> I have 2 units and dumped them both and they were identical.
>>>
>>> M40 is labelled "P"  (program?)
>>> M17 is labelled "CG" (character generator?)
>>>
>>> --
>>> bkw
>>>
>>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Mike Stein]

I hadn't looked at the actual differences  between Hizalev's upgrade and
the original (or Steve's version) but I wasn't  suggesting  that  we
actually use it; I just thought that in case you weren't aware of his
version (and a couple of others) the font set he used and the way he
implemented it might give some ideas to folks like you who are working on a
clearer and more attractive character set than Geoff Graham's (among other
enhancements).

Looking forward to the new and improved version!

m

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 5:09 PM Jim Anderson  wrote:

> There’s a couple of problems.  For one, Peter Hizalev’s version of the
> board uses a higher model of PIC and I’m not sure if the one used in the
> MVT100 design is up to the task (Stephen and I had discussed going down
> this path at some point).  I just tried flashing Peter’s .hex file into my
> MVT100 and that was a no-go – the LED didn’t illuminate and no video output
> was produced.  (I tried v3.0.2 and v2.0.2 whose file size was more in line
> with the .hex file for this version of the board, but both produced the
> same non-result.)
>
>
>
> I really don’t know enough about these devices or the MPLAB toolkit to say
> what would be involved in compiling Peter’s source to run on this PIC, not
> to mention whether it has the resources to run Peter’s code.  On top of
> that, his version of the board doesn’t have composite video output or baud
> rate jumpers, so those features would be lost unless someone with more
> skills than I have put that code back.  Not to mention, the M100 extra
> escape codes would need to be added and the 128-255 characters from the
> M100/DVI character set would need to be converted.
>
>
>
> It's probably not impossible, but it’s definitely not a task I’m cut out
> for.  :)
>
>
>
> I think the improvements I’m making will help quite a bit.  The original
> Geoff Graham design used a 6x12 font which was actually 5x10 if you
> subtract buffer space.  Of that, most characters only occupied 5x7 pixels
> and the rest was reserved for descenders and buffer space.  Then, in
> 24-line mode it would scale up to 6x18 by simply repeating every other
> scanline.  This made a bit of a mess of the characters, which I’m guessing
> had led Geoff to some compromises in the character shapes to minimize the
> negative side-effect of the scaling.
>
>
>
> I’m re-drawing the characters as 6x18 (while still retaining the 6x12
> character bitmaps for the code to use in 36-line mode) so a normal capital
> letter would occupy 5x11 pixels with up to 4 pixels available for
> descenders.  I was hand-scaling the original Geoff Graham character shapes
> (except for my improved 6, 9, and Q) but then had the idea to look at the
> real DVI font to see if it has more pleasing character shapes.  At the very
> least, it’s more authentic to the MVT100’s purpose.  :)
>
>
>
> (Note: if the DVI characters are horrible, I may just stick with Geoff’s
> characters.  In all likelihood, I will probably end up with two full
> character sets, and in that case I guess people could choose to burn a .hex
> file with the DVI-inspired font or the Geoff-inspired font...)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> jim
>
>
>
> *From:* M100 [mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike
> Stein
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 27, 2021 12:53
> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com
> *Subject:* Re: [M100] DVI character set
>
>
>
> *CAUTION External Sender:* Do not click links or open attachments unless
> you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
>
>
>
> Just thought since all the source files are there it might be helpful if
> you're also changing the MVT character set.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:25 PM Stephen Adolph 
> wrote:
>
> thanks Mike, similar motivations for sure.  The other part of it is that
> the M100 DVI character set is unique and related to the M100.  So, thinking
> to both improve it and change the character set to "M100 style".
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:21 PM Mike Stein  wrote:
>
> https://github.com/petrohi/terminal/tree/master/firmware/Terminal.X
> <https://can01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fpetrohi%2Fterminal%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Ffirmware%2FTerminal.X=04%7C01%7CJim.Anderson%40kpu.ca%7C87a9dab7855f472c06be08d8c3059ece%7C66b9f62d3042495eaab6db86f21500c0%7C0%7C0%7C637473776195987532%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=HRdKEMW9C46NhL10V2dKM%2BWOeXPTEd%2BnHiT8wDF7Sg8%3D=0>
>
>
>
> "The updated Version 2 is a huge improvement to the display and character
> generation. It results in an easier to read and much c

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Jim Anderson]

There's a couple of problems.  For one, Peter Hizalev's version of the board 
uses a higher model of PIC and I'm not sure if the one used in the MVT100 
design is up to the task (Stephen and I had discussed going down this path at 
some point).  I just tried flashing Peter's .hex file into my MVT100 and that 
was a no-go - the LED didn't illuminate and no video output was produced.  (I 
tried v3.0.2 and v2.0.2 whose file size was more in line with the .hex file for 
this version of the board, but both produced the same non-result.)

I really don't know enough about these devices or the MPLAB toolkit to say what 
would be involved in compiling Peter's source to run on this PIC, not to 
mention whether it has the resources to run Peter's code.  On top of that, his 
version of the board doesn't have composite video output or baud rate jumpers, 
so those features would be lost unless someone with more skills than I have put 
that code back.  Not to mention, the M100 extra escape codes would need to be 
added and the 128-255 characters from the M100/DVI character set would need to 
be converted.

It's probably not impossible, but it's definitely not a task I'm cut out for.  
:)

I think the improvements I'm making will help quite a bit.  The original Geoff 
Graham design used a 6x12 font which was actually 5x10 if you subtract buffer 
space.  Of that, most characters only occupied 5x7 pixels and the rest was 
reserved for descenders and buffer space.  Then, in 24-line mode it would scale 
up to 6x18 by simply repeating every other scanline.  This made a bit of a mess 
of the characters, which I'm guessing had led Geoff to some compromises in the 
character shapes to minimize the negative side-effect of the scaling.

I'm re-drawing the characters as 6x18 (while still retaining the 6x12 character 
bitmaps for the code to use in 36-line mode) so a normal capital letter would 
occupy 5x11 pixels with up to 4 pixels available for descenders.  I was 
hand-scaling the original Geoff Graham character shapes (except for my improved 
6, 9, and Q) but then had the idea to look at the real DVI font to see if it 
has more pleasing character shapes.  At the very least, it's more authentic to 
the MVT100's purpose.  :)

(Note: if the DVI characters are horrible, I may just stick with Geoff's 
characters.  In all likelihood, I will probably end up with two full character 
sets, and in that case I guess people could choose to burn a .hex file with the 
DVI-inspired font or the Geoff-inspired font...)







jim

From: M100 [mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] On Behalf Of Mike Stein
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 12:53
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] DVI character set

CAUTION External Sender: Do not click links or open attachments unless you 
recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

Just thought since all the source files are there it might be helpful if you're 
also changing the MVT character set.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:25 PM Stephen Adolph 
mailto:twospru...@gmail.com>> wrote:
thanks Mike, similar motivations for sure.  The other part of it is that the 
M100 DVI character set is unique and related to the M100.  So, thinking to both 
improve it and change the character set to "M100 style".


On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:21 PM Mike Stein 
mailto:mhs.st...@gmail.com>> wrote:
https://github.com/petrohi/terminal/tree/master/firmware/Terminal.X<https://can01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fpetrohi%2Fterminal%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Ffirmware%2FTerminal.X=04%7C01%7CJim.Anderson%40kpu.ca%7C87a9dab7855f472c06be08d8c3059ece%7C66b9f62d3042495eaab6db86f21500c0%7C0%7C0%7C637473776195987532%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=HRdKEMW9C46NhL10V2dKM%2BWOeXPTEd%2BnHiT8wDF7Sg8%3D=0>

"The updated Version 2 is a huge improvement to the display and character 
generation. It results in an easier to read and much clearer display. "

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 1:05 PM Stephen Adolph 
mailto:twospru...@gmail.com>> wrote:
looks like 8x8 characters, 2KB total.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:00 PM Stephen Adolph 
mailto:twospru...@gmail.com>> wrote:
super cool thanks for the quick turn!
Steve

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 11:52 AM Brian K. White 
mailto:b.kenyo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 1/26/21 10:42 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> Hey DVI owners,
>
> Would someone mind doing a bit if information mining?
>
> I would love to get the font bitmap for the DVI.  Jim Anderson is
> working on improvements to MVT100 firmware and it would be cool to copy
> and use these fonts.
>
> It is stored in a 4 K eprom M17.  So I am wondering if someone could
> pull the chip and read the eprom data?
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>

Here ya go

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1yqVh_mj5vtBJhYng-Uitvsjnykq0Knnt?usp=sharing<https://can01.safelinks.protection.outloo

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> Hey DVI owners,
> 
> Would someone mind doing a bit if information mining?
> 
> I would love to get the font bitmap for the DVI.  Jim Anderson is
> working on improvements to MVT100 firmware and it would be cool to copy
> and use these fonts.

Something which would also be very useful would be a photo of the DVI character 
set as displayed on-screen so I can get a sense of the relative size and 
displayed shape of each character, since the raw bitmap will likely need to be 
modified (at least to fit the proportions of the new bitmap).

If it's not too much trouble, a sharp photo of the DVI screen (in WIDTH 80 
mode) displaying the output of the following program would be really helpful 
(just email the photo directly to me as I will want the full resolution copy 
and it'll be at least a few mb).

10 screen 1,1
20 width 80
30 for c=32 to 255
40 print "X";chr$(c);"X ";
50 next c







jim

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Mike Stein]

Just thought since all the source files are there it might be helpful if
you're also changing the MVT character set.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:25 PM Stephen Adolph  wrote:

> thanks Mike, similar motivations for sure.  The other part of it is that
> the M100 DVI character set is unique and related to the M100.  So, thinking
> to both improve it and change the character set to "M100 style".
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:21 PM Mike Stein  wrote:
>
>> https://github.com/petrohi/terminal/tree/master/firmware/Terminal.X
>>
>> "The updated Version 2 is a huge improvement to the display and character
>> generation. It results in an easier to read and much clearer display. "
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 1:05 PM Stephen Adolph 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> looks like 8x8 characters, 2KB total.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:00 PM Stephen Adolph 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 super cool thanks for the quick turn!
 Steve

 On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 11:52 AM Brian K. White 
 wrote:

> On 1/26/21 10:42 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> > Hey DVI owners,
> >
> > Would someone mind doing a bit if information mining?
> >
> > I would love to get the font bitmap for the DVI.  Jim Anderson is
> > working on improvements to MVT100 firmware and it would be cool to
> copy
> > and use these fonts.
> >
> > It is stored in a 4 K eprom M17.  So I am wondering if someone could
> > pull the chip and read the eprom data?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Steve
> >
>
> Here ya go
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1yqVh_mj5vtBJhYng-Uitvsjnykq0Knnt?usp=sharing
>
> I have 2 units and dumped them both and they were identical.
>
> M40 is labelled "P"  (program?)
> M17 is labelled "CG" (character generator?)
>
> --
> bkw
>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Stephen Adolph]

thanks Mike, similar motivations for sure.  The other part of it is that
the M100 DVI character set is unique and related to the M100.  So, thinking
to both improve it and change the character set to "M100 style".


On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:21 PM Mike Stein  wrote:

> https://github.com/petrohi/terminal/tree/master/firmware/Terminal.X
>
> "The updated Version 2 is a huge improvement to the display and character
> generation. It results in an easier to read and much clearer display. "
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 1:05 PM Stephen Adolph 
> wrote:
>
>> looks like 8x8 characters, 2KB total.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:00 PM Stephen Adolph 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> super cool thanks for the quick turn!
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 11:52 AM Brian K. White 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 On 1/26/21 10:42 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
 > Hey DVI owners,
 >
 > Would someone mind doing a bit if information mining?
 >
 > I would love to get the font bitmap for the DVI.  Jim Anderson is
 > working on improvements to MVT100 firmware and it would be cool to
 copy
 > and use these fonts.
 >
 > It is stored in a 4 K eprom M17.  So I am wondering if someone could
 > pull the chip and read the eprom data?
 >
 > Thanks
 > Steve
 >

 Here ya go


 https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1yqVh_mj5vtBJhYng-Uitvsjnykq0Knnt?usp=sharing

 I have 2 units and dumped them both and they were identical.

 M40 is labelled "P"  (program?)
 M17 is labelled "CG" (character generator?)

 --
 bkw

>>>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Mike Stein]

https://github.com/petrohi/terminal/tree/master/firmware/Terminal.X

"The updated Version 2 is a huge improvement to the display and character
generation. It results in an easier to read and much clearer display. "

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 1:05 PM Stephen Adolph  wrote:

> looks like 8x8 characters, 2KB total.
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:00 PM Stephen Adolph 
> wrote:
>
>> super cool thanks for the quick turn!
>> Steve
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 11:52 AM Brian K. White 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/26/21 10:42 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>>> > Hey DVI owners,
>>> >
>>> > Would someone mind doing a bit if information mining?
>>> >
>>> > I would love to get the font bitmap for the DVI.  Jim Anderson is
>>> > working on improvements to MVT100 firmware and it would be cool to
>>> copy
>>> > and use these fonts.
>>> >
>>> > It is stored in a 4 K eprom M17.  So I am wondering if someone could
>>> > pull the chip and read the eprom data?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks
>>> > Steve
>>> >
>>>
>>> Here ya go
>>>
>>>
>>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1yqVh_mj5vtBJhYng-Uitvsjnykq0Knnt?usp=sharing
>>>
>>> I have 2 units and dumped them both and they were identical.
>>>
>>> M40 is labelled "P"  (program?)
>>> M17 is labelled "CG" (character generator?)
>>>
>>> --
>>> bkw
>>>
>>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Mike Stein]

One of the clones of Graham's terminal has a different character set
supposedly superior to the original. I downloaded the binary intending to
check it out but now I can't find it; I'll keep looking, might be worth a
look

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:42 PM Stephen Adolph 
wrote:

> Hey DVI owners,
>
> Would someone mind doing a bit if information mining?
>
> I would love to get the font bitmap for the DVI.  Jim Anderson is working
> on improvements to MVT100 firmware and it would be cool to copy and use
> these fonts.
>
> It is stored in a 4 K eprom M17.  So I am wondering if someone could pull
> the chip and read the eprom data?
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>
>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Stephen Adolph]

looks like 8x8 characters, 2KB total.

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:00 PM Stephen Adolph 
wrote:

> super cool thanks for the quick turn!
> Steve
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 11:52 AM Brian K. White 
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/26/21 10:42 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>> > Hey DVI owners,
>> >
>> > Would someone mind doing a bit if information mining?
>> >
>> > I would love to get the font bitmap for the DVI.  Jim Anderson is
>> > working on improvements to MVT100 firmware and it would be cool to copy
>> > and use these fonts.
>> >
>> > It is stored in a 4 K eprom M17.  So I am wondering if someone could
>> > pull the chip and read the eprom data?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Steve
>> >
>>
>> Here ya go
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1yqVh_mj5vtBJhYng-Uitvsjnykq0Knnt?usp=sharing
>>
>> I have 2 units and dumped them both and they were identical.
>>
>> M40 is labelled "P"  (program?)
>> M17 is labelled "CG" (character generator?)
>>
>> --
>> bkw
>>
>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Stephen Adolph]

super cool thanks for the quick turn!
Steve

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 11:52 AM Brian K. White 
wrote:

> On 1/26/21 10:42 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> > Hey DVI owners,
> >
> > Would someone mind doing a bit if information mining?
> >
> > I would love to get the font bitmap for the DVI.  Jim Anderson is
> > working on improvements to MVT100 firmware and it would be cool to copy
> > and use these fonts.
> >
> > It is stored in a 4 K eprom M17.  So I am wondering if someone could
> > pull the chip and read the eprom data?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Steve
> >
>
> Here ya go
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1yqVh_mj5vtBJhYng-Uitvsjnykq0Knnt?usp=sharing
>
> I have 2 units and dumped them both and they were identical.
>
> M40 is labelled "P"  (program?)
> M17 is labelled "CG" (character generator?)
>
> --
> bkw
>

Re: [M100] DVI character set

[Brian K. White]

On 1/26/21 10:42 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:

Hey DVI owners,

Would someone mind doing a bit if information mining?

I would love to get the font bitmap for the DVI.  Jim Anderson is 
working on improvements to MVT100 firmware and it would be cool to copy 
and use these fonts.


It is stored in a 4 K eprom M17.  So I am wondering if someone could 
pull the chip and read the eprom data?


Thanks
Steve



Here ya go

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1yqVh_mj5vtBJhYng-Uitvsjnykq0Knnt?usp=sharing

I have 2 units and dumped them both and they were identical.

M40 is labelled "P"  (program?)
M17 is labelled "CG" (character generator?)

--
bkw

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[Stephen Adolph]

you can get drive solutions pretty readily that do just that, so 2 3.5 inch
floppy drives can fit mechanically into a single 5.25 drive bay.  Slim
server floppies are like that.
I used those to mount 2 3.5 floppies in a dead TPDD case for use with Color
computer.
It turned out pretty well!

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 6:23 PM Mike Stein  wrote:

> Just another thought:
>
> If you were up to making some custom cables and mounting brackets one
> possible solution to your dilemma might be to squeeze two 1/4 height 3.5"
> floppy drives into a single 'normal' 3.5" half height bracket, freeing the
> other bay for the 5 1/4" drive, with a switch to select 3.5 or 5.25.
>
> Might just try that myself... ;-)
>
> m
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Greg Swallow" 
> To: "Mike Stein" 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2020 8:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive
>
>
> > They work, but not as 1.44mb drives. Not even 720k or double-sided. That
> would require hardware changes/additions.
> >
> > Since later drives support formatting to former technology, I thought it
> would be worth a try. I made sure the drives had jumper blocks for drive
> select. My DVI came with the standard 5.25" drive zero and M100 boot
> diskette. The first 3.5" went in as drive 1. Formatting worked fine to 180k
> on 3.5 diskettes. So, installed another 3.5 as drive zero. Booted from the
> 5.25" to 3.5" Backup System diskette and we were in business. Also have a
> CCR-81 on the DVI Model 100 and connected it to a desktop/TPDD (mComm).
> Only problem would be moving software from 5.25" to 3.5" now. I would have
> to open up the DVI and swap a drive for the task.
> >
> > God Bless,
> >
> > GregS <><
> >
> > Jul 7, 2020 4:32:30 AM Mike Stein :
> >
> >> ...or maybe even:
> >>
> >>  [cid:36B70691E5714CCE9CDEA74985899B30@310e2]
> >>
> >>> - Original Message -
> >>>
> >>> From: James Zeun[james.z...@gmail.com]
> >>>
> >>> To: M100 Mailing List[m...@bitchin100.com]
> >>>
> >>> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 7:31 PM
> >>>
> >>> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive
> >>>
> >>> Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI?
> >>>
> >>> Would not have expected that
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> James:
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes
> of old 3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't
> get 1.44mb or double sided, but I have plenty of media.
> >>>>
> >>>> GregS <><
> >>>>
> >>>> Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >
>

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[Mike Stein]

Just another thought:

If you were up to making some custom cables and mounting brackets one possible 
solution to your dilemma might be to squeeze two 1/4 height 3.5" floppy drives 
into a single 'normal' 3.5" half height bracket, freeing the other bay for the 
5 1/4" drive, with a switch to select 3.5 or 5.25.

Might just try that myself... ;-)

m

- Original Message - 
From: "Greg Swallow" 
To: "Mike Stein" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2020 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive


> They work, but not as 1.44mb drives. Not even 720k or double-sided. That 
> would require hardware changes/additions.
> 
> Since later drives support formatting to former technology, I thought it 
> would be worth a try. I made sure the drives had jumper blocks for drive 
> select. My DVI came with the standard 5.25" drive zero and M100 boot 
> diskette. The first 3.5" went in as drive 1. Formatting worked fine to 180k 
> on 3.5 diskettes. So, installed another 3.5 as drive zero. Booted from the 
> 5.25" to 3.5" Backup System diskette and we were in business. Also have a 
> CCR-81 on the DVI Model 100 and connected it to a desktop/TPDD (mComm). Only 
> problem would be moving software from 5.25" to 3.5" now. I would have to open 
> up the DVI and swap a drive for the task.
> 
> God Bless,
> 
> GregS <><
> 
> Jul 7, 2020 4:32:30 AM Mike Stein :
> 
>> ...or maybe even:
>> 
>>  [cid:36B70691E5714CCE9CDEA74985899B30@310e2]
>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> 
>>> From: James Zeun[james.z...@gmail.com]
>>> 
>>> To: M100 Mailing List[m...@bitchin100.com]
>>> 
>>> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 7:31 PM
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive
>>> 
>>> Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI?
>>> 
>>> Would not have expected that
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> James:
>>>> 
>>>> I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of old 
>>>> 3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get 
>>>> 1.44mb or double sided, but I have plenty of media.
>>>> 
>>>> GregS <><
>>>> 
>>>> Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:
>>>> 
>>>>> Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>> 
>

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[Mike Stein]

Well, as I said it was meant more as a 'wouldn't this be nice' picture, not one 
of an actual fully functional configuration; still, it wouldn't be impossible...

As an OT aside; one of the things on my list is the opposite challenge, namely 
to modify the speed of the 3.5" drive from 300rpm to 360, the same as the 5 
1/4" HD drive.

In the S100 world and elsewhere many systems used 8" drives, which are becoming 
scarce and expensive (as are the diskettes); as it happens both 5 1/4" and 3.5" 
HD drives are fully compatible with the 8" formats except for the lower speed 
of the 3.5" drives.

Some 3.5" drives have jumpers to change to 360 rpm and many of us do use them 
as replacements for 8" drives, but AFAIK none of the dual 3.5/5.25" HD combo 
drives have that jumper option.

m 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Chris Fezzler 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2020 3:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive


  Nice setup there!


  On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 07:29:28 AM EDT, Mike Stein  
wrote: 




  ...or maybe even:


- Original Message - 
From: James Zeun 
To: M100 Mailing List 
    Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive


Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI? 


Would not have expected that


On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:

  James:

  I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of 
old 3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get 
1.44mb or double sided, but I have plenty of media.

  GregS <><

  Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:

  > Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
  > 
  > Sent from my iPad
  > 



--

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[Mike Stein]

Yup; should be fine. I don't recall what the DVI came with, it might even have 
been a Chinon drive. 

I replaced mine with two matching 'normal' 360K drives way back when; the only 
issue IIRC when replacing one drive was that the interface connector was on the 
opposite edge and the cable didn't quite reach across.

m
  - Original Message - 
  From: James Zeun 
  To: M100 Mailing List 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2020 4:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive


  The replacement drive I've bought was this


  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224046494179



  My understanding was the stock drive in the DVI where 180k




  On Tue, 7 Jul 2020, 8:15 pm Chris Fezzler,  wrote:

Nice setup there!


On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 07:29:28 AM EDT, Mike Stein  
wrote: 




...or maybe even:


  - Original Message - 
  From: James Zeun 
  To: M100 Mailing List 
  Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 7:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive


  Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI? 


  Would not have expected that


  On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:

James:

I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of 
old 3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get 
1.44mb or double sided, but I have plenty of media.

GregS <><

Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:

> Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[James Zeun]

The replacement drive I've bought was this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224046494179

My understanding was the stock drive in the DVI where 180k


On Tue, 7 Jul 2020, 8:15 pm Chris Fezzler,  wrote:

> Nice setup there!
>
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 07:29:28 AM EDT, Mike Stein 
> wrote:
>
>
> ...or maybe even:
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* James Zeun 
> *To:* M100 Mailing List 
> *Sent:* Friday, July 03, 2020 7:31 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive
>
> Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI?
>
> Would not have expected that
>
> On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:
>
> James:
>
> I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of old
> 3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get
> 1.44mb or double sided, but I have plenty of media.
>
> GregS <><
>
> Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:
>
> > Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
>
>

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[Chris Fezzler]

 Nice setup there!
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 07:29:28 AM EDT, Mike Stein  
wrote:  
 
  ...or maybe even: 
 - Original Message -  From: James Zeun  To: M100 Mailing List  Sent: 
Friday, July 03, 2020 7:31 PM Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive 
 Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI? 
 Would not have expected that
  On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:
 
James:

I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of old 
3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get 1.44mb 
or double sided, but I have plenty of media.

GregS <><

Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:

> Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 


  

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[Mike Stein]

Sorry; the 4-drive picture was not meant entirely seriously since no matter 
what the DVI only provides for two drives; the 5 1/4" drive does indeed 
normally spin at 360rpm instead of 300 but since we're talking about 
non-standard formats anyway that shouldn't necessarily matter. Looks cool 
though ;-)

You won't be able to read anything other than 180K 5 1/4"DD format diskettes on 
other drives; no different than trying to read your 3.5"HD diskettes on another 
drive. The point in reply to James was that if you don't mind being 
incompatible with the rest of the world then it doesn't much matter what disk 
drive/diskettes you use although no matter what you'll still only have 180K per 
(normally only one) side. 

To remain compatible you'll need a 5 1/4" 40 track DD drive (usually called 
360K)

No, without some modifications it would not solve your issue of requiring an 
external 5 1/4 drive to read DVI-format diskettes in your dual 3.5" system; 
sorry if I implied that. The main issue would actually be that the 5 1/4"HD 
drive would have to double-step; drive speed and density might be modifiable.

We had a discussion about different drives a few years back which is where I 
originally posted these pictures, and we actually did try some of the various 
drive combinations.

m
  - Original Message - 
  From: Gregory McGill 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2020 11:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive


  no that is a high density drive without any real configuration abilities.. it 
is hard wired for d0 d1 internally AND they are at a different spindle speed 
than a single/double density drive so you wont be able to read disks with it 
written on other drives and vice versa 






  On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 4:29 AM Mike Stein  wrote:

...or maybe even:


  - Original Message - 
  From: James Zeun 
  To: M100 Mailing List 
  Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 7:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive


  Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI? 


  Would not have expected that


  On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:

James:

I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of 
old 3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get 
1.44mb or double sided, but I have plenty of media.

GregS <><

Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:

> Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[Gregory McGill]

no that is a high density drive without any real configuration abilities..
it is hard wired for d0 d1 internally AND they are at a different spindle
speed than a single/double density drive so you wont be able to read disks
with it written on other drives and vice versa



On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 4:29 AM Mike Stein  wrote:

> ...or maybe even:
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* James Zeun 
> *To:* M100 Mailing List 
> *Sent:* Friday, July 03, 2020 7:31 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive
>
> Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI?
>
> Would not have expected that
>
> On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:
>
>> James:
>>
>> I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of
>> old 3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get
>> 1.44mb or double sided, but I have plenty of media.
>>
>> GregS <><
>>
>> Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:
>>
>> > Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>>
>

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[Mike Stein]

In general terms as long as a floppy drive can handle the density and has 
enough tracks it doesn't care about the disk format any more than a cassette 
player cares about the kind of music; that is mainly determined by the 
controller, the software and the diskette type (DD vs. HD).

Technically, a 1.44MB drive (capable of 80 tracks of 18 sectors) should be able 
to read and write almost any format.

The only useful hardware addition would be a switch to manually select either 
side of a double-sided drive/diskette, doubling the capacity at the cost of 
some inconvenience.

m

- Original Message - 
From: "Greg Swallow" 
To: "Mike Stein" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2020 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive


> They work, but not as 1.44mb drives. Not even 720k or double-sided. That 
> would require hardware changes/additions.
> 
> Since later drives support formatting to former technology, I thought it 
> would be worth a try. I made sure the drives had jumper blocks for drive 
> select. My DVI came with the standard 5.25" drive zero and M100 boot 
> diskette. The first 3.5" went in as drive 1. Formatting worked fine to 180k 
> on 3.5 diskettes. So, installed another 3.5 as drive zero. Booted from the 
> 5.25" to 3.5" Backup System diskette and we were in business. Also have a 
> CCR-81 on the DVI Model 100 and connected it to a desktop/TPDD (mComm). Only 
> problem would be moving software from 5.25" to 3.5" now. I would have to open 
> up the DVI and swap a drive for the task.
> 
> God Bless,
> 
> GregS <><
> 
> Jul 7, 2020 4:32:30 AM Mike Stein :
> 
>> ...or maybe even:
>> 
>>  [cid:36B70691E5714CCE9CDEA74985899B30@310e2]
>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> 
>>> From: James Zeun[james.z...@gmail.com]
>>> 
>>> To: M100 Mailing List[m...@bitchin100.com]
>>> 
>>> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 7:31 PM
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive
>>> 
>>> Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI?
>>> 
>>> Would not have expected that
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> James:
>>>> 
>>>> I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of old 
>>>> 3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get 
>>>> 1.44mb or double sided, but I have plenty of media.
>>>> 
>>>> GregS <><
>>>> 
>>>> Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:
>>>> 
>>>>> Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>> 
>

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[Greg Swallow]

They work, but not as 1.44mb drives. Not even 720k or double-sided. That would 
require hardware changes/additions.

Since later drives support formatting to former technology, I thought it would 
be worth a try. I made sure the drives had jumper blocks for drive select. My 
DVI came with the standard 5.25" drive zero and M100 boot diskette. The first 
3.5" went in as drive 1. Formatting worked fine to 180k on 3.5 diskettes. So, 
installed another 3.5 as drive zero. Booted from the 5.25" to 3.5" Backup 
System diskette and we were in business. Also have a CCR-81 on the DVI Model 
100 and connected it to a desktop/TPDD (mComm). Only problem would be moving 
software from 5.25" to 3.5" now. I would have to open up the DVI and swap a 
drive for the task.

God Bless,

GregS <><

Jul 7, 2020 4:32:30 AM Mike Stein :

> ...or maybe even:
> 
>  [cid:36B70691E5714CCE9CDEA74985899B30@310e2]
> 
>> - Original Message -
>> 
>> From: James Zeun[james.z...@gmail.com]
>> 
>> To: M100 Mailing List[m...@bitchin100.com]
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 7:31 PM
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive
>> 
>> Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI?
>> 
>> Would not have expected that
>> 
>> On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:
>> 
>>> James:
>>> 
>>> I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of old 
>>> 3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get 
>>> 1.44mb or double sided, but I have plenty of media.
>>> 
>>> GregS <><
>>> 
>>> Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:
>>> 
>>>> Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>> 

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[James Zeun]

Now I do like that!! I've never seen one of those before!

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020, 12:29 pm Mike Stein,  wrote:

> ...or maybe even:
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* James Zeun 
> *To:* M100 Mailing List 
> *Sent:* Friday, July 03, 2020 7:31 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive
>
> Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI?
>
> Would not have expected that
>
> On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:
>
>> James:
>>
>> I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of
>> old 3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get
>> 1.44mb or double sided, but I have plenty of media.
>>
>> GregS <><
>>
>> Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:
>>
>> > Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>>
>

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[Mike Stein]

...or maybe even:


  - Original Message - 
  From: James Zeun 
  To: M100 Mailing List 
  Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 7:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive


  Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI?


  Would not have expected that


  On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:

James:

I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of old 
3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get 1.44mb 
or double sided, but I have plenty of media.

GregS <><

Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:

> Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[Mike Stein]

Why not?


  - Original Message - 
  From: James Zeun 
  To: M100 Mailing List 
  Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 7:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive


  Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI?


  Would not have expected that


  On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:

James:

I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of old 
3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get 1.44mb 
or double sided, but I have plenty of media.

GregS <><

Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:

> Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[James Zeun]

Wait, you actually have 3.5" floppy drives working on the DVI?

Would not have expected that

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm Greg Swallow,  wrote:

> James:
>
> I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of old
> 3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get
> 1.44mb or double sided, but I have plenty of media.
>
> GregS <><
>
> Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:
>
> > Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
>

Re: [M100] DVI replacement floppy drive

[Greg Swallow]

James:

I'd try it. Seems the DVI is pretty forgiving. I have boxes & boxes of old 
3.5in diskettes. So, installed two 1.44mb drives in my DVI. I don't get 1.44mb 
or double sided, but I have plenty of media.

GregS <><

Jul 3, 2020 2:53:53 PM james.z...@gmail.com:

> Would a 180kb floppy drive work in the DVI?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 

Re: [M100] DVI Floppy drive or blanking cover

[Gregory McGill]

Yep black pla+
I also print a gotek case to fit in the 5.25" bay..

It works like the amiga version, except there's no software loader you have
to select the images on the drive, optionally a oled screen you can see the
whole file name on and also optionally a rotary encoder to select
otherwise buttons and you can load the disk images on a modern system they
are stored on a usb thumbdrive.. what you can do with them when you get
them there? no idea. I load flashfloppy firmware on them which is the most
versatile and feature rich firmware.

Greg

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 4:04 PM James Zeun  wrote:

> Oh that would be handy! Guessing you'd print it in black filament?
>
> I know how gotek drives work on the Amiga, but how do they work in the
> DVI? is it possible to read the disk images on a modern system?
>
>
>
> On 27 Jun 2020, at 23:43, Gregory McGill wrote:
>
> I can 3d print one, or sell you a gotek to stick in there
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 4:21 AM James Zeun  wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey guys
>>
>> A random question, but thought it worth a shot.
>>
>> Does anyone have a spare 180k floppy drive or perhaps a blanking
>> cover for the DVI?
>>
>> At the moment I have a gaping hole in the front of my DVI and I'd
>> very much like to cover it up with something.
>>
>> Or if anyone can recommend a few models of floppy drive I might be
>> able to look for on t'old fleabay, that would also be helpful.
>>
>> Cheers
>> James
>>
>>
>

Re: [M100] DVI Floppy drive or blanking cover

[James Zeun]

Oh that would be handy! Guessing you'd print it in black filament?

I know how gotek drives work on the Amiga, but how do they work in  
the DVI? is it possible to read the disk images on a modern system?




On 27 Jun 2020, at 23:43, Gregory McGill wrote:


I can 3d print one, or sell you a gotek to stick in there


On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 4:21 AM James Zeun   
wrote:


Hey guys

A random question, but thought it worth a shot.

Does anyone have a spare 180k floppy drive or perhaps a blanking
cover for the DVI?

At the moment I have a gaping hole in the front of my DVI and I'd
very much like to cover it up with something.

Or if anyone can recommend a few models of floppy drive I might be
able to look for on t'old fleabay, that would also be helpful.

Cheers
James

Re: [M100] DVI Floppy drive or blanking cover

[Lee Kelley]

Or put in a CD drive only connected to power and play music with headphones
or speakers connected to the front of it

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 17:43 Gregory McGill  wrote:

> I can 3d print one, or sell you a gotek to stick in there
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 4:21 AM James Zeun  wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey guys
>>
>> A random question, but thought it worth a shot.
>>
>> Does anyone have a spare 180k floppy drive or perhaps a blanking
>> cover for the DVI?
>>
>> At the moment I have a gaping hole in the front of my DVI and I'd
>> very much like to cover it up with something.
>>
>> Or if anyone can recommend a few models of floppy drive I might be
>> able to look for on t'old fleabay, that would also be helpful.
>>
>> Cheers
>> James
>>
>>

Re: [M100] DVI Floppy drive or blanking cover

[Gregory McGill]

I can 3d print one, or sell you a gotek to stick in there


On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 4:21 AM James Zeun  wrote:

>
> Hey guys
>
> A random question, but thought it worth a shot.
>
> Does anyone have a spare 180k floppy drive or perhaps a blanking
> cover for the DVI?
>
> At the moment I have a gaping hole in the front of my DVI and I'd
> very much like to cover it up with something.
>
> Or if anyone can recommend a few models of floppy drive I might be
> able to look for on t'old fleabay, that would also be helpful.
>
> Cheers
> James
>
>

Re: [M100] DVI shakedown

[Brian K. White]

On 4/1/20 10:33 AM, Charles Hudson wrote:
Got the DVI cleaned and reassembled recently and ordered the OS disk and 
cables from Arcade Shopper.  Today I made my first attempt at a connection.


Dug  out a Commodore 1084 CRT which has an RCA video input and tried to 
connect to a Model 102, but couldn't figure out where to connect.  I 
have the RS DVI manual but it only mentions connecting to the Model 
100.  Suggestions?


There are several types of cable at arcadeshopper.
If you got a one-piece cable with the DIP plug for a 100, then that 
cable only wirks on a 100.


There are also cables that only fit 102, and a cable that fits 102 and 
200, and a 3-part kit that supports everything 100, 102, and 200.


If you got the 3-part cable kit, then it's obvious what to do, because 
it can't be connected any other way. There is one cable part that is a 
female-to-female 40-pin cable, and a little male-male adapter (which 
isn't just a gender-changer, it swaps wires around, don't try to use it 
as a gender-changer for any other 40-pin cables like to a hard drive!)
You plug the long cable into the DVI, plug the adapter on the free end, 
plug that into the 102.


Lots of pictures of the different cables and how they connect here
http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable

If you don't have the 3-part cable, or the dedicated T102 cable or the 
102/200 cable, then maybe you have the parts to build one of the several 
versions shown there.




So I switched to the Model 100.  Following the startup procedure from 
the manual I got as far as issuing the BASIC command SCREEN 1,1 and got 
an "FC" error.  Back to square one.


I made a video of the process of booting up the dvi.
It's a bit slow at first because I was reading the manual for the first 
time myself.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Jy1hXhc3aSbkcaFr6





Shut down everything and checked the cable connection to the Model 100, 
which was apparently loose.  Reconnected, powered up, loaded DOS, reset 
the M100 and this time the drive loaded Disk BASIC.


Ran a few programs on the CRT, used the backup utility to create another 
system disk and checked that off my list.  This is a whole new ballgame 
with the M100 backed by a CRT and twin disks.


Ok you don't need that video ;)

Do you have a 200? And did you get the 100 or the 100/200 version of the 
disk?


If make backups of the 100/200 disk on a 100 or 102, the backup disk is 
a bad disk. It will work, but only on 100 & 102. The problem is it will 
*look* like a 100/200 disk because it has *.200 files on it, and it will 
*look* like a good copy because it will boot fine on your 100 or 102, 
but the copies will not boot on a 200. That will make someone think they 
have a bad dvi or bad drives or bad 200 some day.


Anyone buying these disks, I suggest if you don't have a 200, then don't 
get the 100/200 version of the disk. And if you do have a 200, then get 
the 100/200 version of the disk, and only use the 200 to make copies of it.



--
bkw



Thanks, all, for your help.

Next: communication with the Model III and Model 4.

-CH-



 
	Virus-free. www.avg.com 
 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>



--
bkw

Re: [M100] DVI shakedown

[Kevin Becker]

I don't have a DVI but the m102 should connect to the System Bus
connector on the back.
On Wed, 2020-04-01 at 10:33 -0400, Charles Hudson wrote:
> Got the DVI cleaned and reassembled recently and ordered the OS disk
> and cables from Arcade Shopper.  Today I made my first attempt at a
> connection.
> 
> Dug  out a Commodore 1084 CRT which has an RCA video input and tried
> to connect to a Model 102, but couldn't figure out where to connect. 
> I have the RS DVI manual but it only mentions connecting to the Model
> 100.  Suggestions?
> 
> So I switched to the Model 100.  Following the startup procedure from
> the manual I got as far as issuing the BASIC command SCREEN 1,1 and
> got an "FC" error.  Back to square one.
> 
> Shut down everything and checked the cable connection to the Model
> 100, which was apparently loose.  Reconnected, powered up, loaded
> DOS, reset the M100 and this time the drive loaded Disk BASIC.
> 
> Ran a few programs on the CRT, used the backup utility to create
> another system disk and checked that off my list.  This is a whole
> new ballgame with the M100 backed by a CRT and twin disks.
> 
> Thanks, all, for your help.
> 
> Next: communication with the Model III and Model 4.
> 
> -CH-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
>   Virus-free. www.avg.com
>   
>   
> 

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> 
> Sadly it is from.an era long before small system standards.  How cool
> would the world be if we could have standardised on a single floppy
> format.
> 
> We couldn't even get RS232 right

Reminds me of a favourite old saying... "Standards are great!  That's why we 
have so many of them!"







jim

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Brian K. White]

On 3/13/20 7:56 PM, James Zeun wrote:
You know what, it's very tempting as I find soldering very cathartic. 
But the cable is ordered now.


I'm gutted the DVI writes floppys in a different format to the TPDD. 
Curse you Tandy!


It's really the TPDD that is weird. It's not just a different data 
layout, it's a different magnetic signal. The TPDD drive really was just 
meant for the knitting machines first, which didn't need to try to 
adhere to any kind of interoperability standard beyond the physical 
media. But the hardware was cheap and the connection was ttl serial, and 
the protocol was easy, and so I guess it was irresistable to try to doll 
it up into a storage device for the M100's because anything was better 
than the cassettes.


But DVI is, not standard, but at least almost standard, or more 
standard. At least normal drives and drive controllers (old ones anyway) 
can at least read the tracks in the normal way without Kryoflux.



On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, 6:16 pm Brian K. White, > wrote:


On 3/13/20 5:15 AM, James Zeun wrote:
 > Well of course I knew I could buy a £4 cable and save myself half an
 > hour soldering 40 wires, well 80! What do you take me for some
sort of
 > idiot? *Cough* :-P
 >
 > There's always someone with a bright idea. Well I'm going to make
coffee
 > and try to not feel too disappointed about all that soldering I'm
 > missing out on, now I have a 30cm extension cable ordered.
 >
 > *Goes off grumbling to himself*
 >
 > Thanks Brian! ;-)

Someone else said splice you didn't, but in this same conversation,
so I
just addressed it all in one post.

Are you *sure* you don't want to perform 80 solder and heat-shrink
splices? It can be very zen. :)

-- 
bkw


 > On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, 5:34 am Brian White, mailto:b.kenyo...@gmail.com>
 > >> wrote:
 >
 >     It's easier than that. If you take pretty much any idc
connector and
 >     put it back to back or hed yo head with another, the end
result is
 >     the "twist" where pin 1 switches places with pin 40, pin 2
switches
 >     places with pin 39, etc.
 >
 >     What I mean by "any idc" is, for instance, a wire-to-board
back to
 >     back with a male pin header. That makes a Model 102 or 200 cable.
 >
 >

http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable#Cable_supporting_models_102_and_200_only
 >
 >     Another form of the same thing is if you put 2 male pin
headers back
 >     to back, that makes an adapter that can serve as the the
twisty part
 >     on a cable set that works on all 3 models.
 >
 > http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable
 >
 >     Or head to head: Mike Stein showed me (well everyone) that if you
 >     just take any standard 40 pin cables and butt two female ends
face
 >     to face with a "gender changer" pin header, that results in
the same
 >     twist.
 >
 >     That page above has links to buy all the odd parts for the
different
 >     ways to do it.
 >
 >     But for a pcb to do the switcheroo, the pcb is nothing more
than 40
 >     straight lines just to make it easier to solder two plugs back to
 >     back. See the "twist adapter" link in that page.
 >
 >     You don't have to splice anything to make the cable longer.
Just buy
 >     or make a bog-standard 40 pin male-female extension cable,
and stick
 >     it on the DVI end of the cable. They are readily available
pre-made
 >     and cheap these days in the form of "gpio" cables for arduino or
 >     raspberry pi.
 >
 >     You can search "male female gpio" or similar on ebay or just
pick a
 >     length here:
 >
 > http://www.cablesonline.com/240pinidedir.html
 >
 >     --
 >     bkw
 >
 >     On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 5:33 PM RETRO Innovations
 >     mailto:go4re...@go4retro.com>
>> wrote:
 >
 >         On 3/12/2020 4:17 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
 >>         
 >>         Hi Jim,
 >>         I wouldn't call it a newbie mistake ;-) Those 'non-standard'
 >>         40-pin DIP headers have been impossible to find; maybe with
 >>         your resources you can find some somewhere so they can just
 >>         simply be crimped on.
 >
 >         I'm wondering if the switch could be made at the other
end, with
 >         a small PCB and the respective female header attached to
it...
 >
 >


-- 
bkw





--
bkw

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Greg Swallow]

All:

Been crazy business at work, so catching up a bit on this one. Don't 
know how much help this might be, but it is what I have experienced.


I have two M100 as portable and another that stays connected to the DVI 
due to the DVI_DOS vs REX_MGR issue. Am already used to similar DVI 
problems from using PCSG ROMs with the DVI. Lucid at 80 columns and 25 
lines would be so nice. I am presently converting my Windows computers 
to openSuse Linux -- one more to go, and have no target for TS-DOS. 
Could connect M100 to M100, but that is an issue due to limited work 
space. So, I also have a CCR-81 connected to the DVI M100 and carry a 
Sharp when portable. Cassette storage seems to unaffected by anything 
else involved. Was able to find a handful of NOS Maxell UR60 audio 
cassettes at GoodWill for only $1.29 each for quite a bit of portable 
storage. Splicing is the easiest way to get rid of the leader. A little 
bulking, but it works.


Would have preferred the format of diskettes to be the same between 
portable and DVI. Especially since I have swapped out 5.25 for 3.5 inch 
(1.44MB) drives in the DVI. Am thinking I might plunge and get the GoTek 
USB floppy adapter to try in the DVI, but a again portable and DVI would 
be different formats.


As for cable length? I used an old IDE cable and extender -- not EIDE, 
to make a M100 to DVI set using Mike Stein's instruction here: 
http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable . The Male/Male joiner 
allows for easy swapping between M100 & M102 as well. My total cable 
length is something like 18 inches with no foil/shielding, Haven't had 
any dropped bits as of yet.



God bless,

GregS <><

On 3/14/20 3:39 AM, Josh Malone wrote:
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:22 AM > wrote:


Well the DVI won’t work with REX manager loaded in the computers
memory. Which means, if I write a document and it’s relatively
large. My options are, save it to floppy on the DVI or store it in
memory and hope that there is enough free ram to load REX manager
so I can load in the TS-DOS rom.


You don't need to load REXMGR to load TS-DOS - just load TS-DOS and 
then unload REXMGR before connecting the DVI.

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[B4 Me100]

You may want to take a look at the
http://www.club100.org/library/libdrv.html archive.  It has a few programs
that seem to swap the DVI and TS-DOS.  I have not used any of them but there
might be something of use?

From:  M100  on behalf of

Reply-To:  
Date:  Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 2:22 AM
To:  
Subject:  Re: [M100] DVI cable length

> Well the DVI won’t work with REX manager loaded in the computers memory. Which
> means, if I write a document and it’s relatively large. My options are, save
> it to floppy on the DVI or store it in memory and hope that there is enough
> free ram to load REX manager so I can load in the TS-DOS rom. Then I can
> transfer the document off the computer and on to SD card.
> 
> IF the DVI had saved in a TPDD format, it would have been a piece of cake.
> 1. Save to disk
> 2. Unhook DVI
> 3. Load REX back in to memory
> 4. Connect TPDD2 and retrieve saved file
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 14 Mar 2020, at 1:16 am, Mike Stein  wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> - Original Message -
>> From: James Zeun
>> To: m...@bitchin100.com
>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 7:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable length
>> 
>> 
>>> > I'm gutted the DVI writes floppys in a different format to the TPDD. Curse
>>> you Tandy!
>>  
>> Just curious; what'd you have in mind?
>> 
>> 

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Josh Malone]

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:22 AM  wrote:

> Well the DVI won’t work with REX manager loaded in the computers memory.
> Which means, if I write a document and it’s relatively large. My options
> are, save it to floppy on the DVI or store it in memory and hope that there
> is enough free ram to load REX manager so I can load in the TS-DOS rom.
>

You don't need to load REXMGR to load TS-DOS - just load TS-DOS and then
unload REXMGR before connecting the DVI.

>

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[james . zeun]

Well the DVI won’t work with REX manager loaded in the computers memory. Which 
means, if I write a document and it’s relatively large. My options are, save it 
to floppy on the DVI or store it in memory and hope that there is enough free 
ram to load REX manager so I can load in the TS-DOS rom. Then I can transfer 
the document off the computer and on to SD card.

IF the DVI had saved in a TPDD format, it would have been a piece of cake. 
1. Save to disk
2. Unhook DVI
3. Load REX back in to memory
4. Connect TPDD2 and retrieve saved file


Sent from my iPad

> On 14 Mar 2020, at 1:16 am, Mike Stein  wrote:
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: James Zeun 
> To: m...@bitchin100.com 
> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 7:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable length
> 
> 
> > I'm gutted the DVI writes floppys in a different format to the TPDD. Curse 
> > you Tandy!
>  
> Just curious; what'd you have in mind?
> 
> 

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Mike Stein]

- Original Message - 
From: James Zeun 
To: m...@bitchin100.com 
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable length


> I'm gutted the DVI writes floppys in a different format to the TPDD. Curse 
> you Tandy!

Just curious; what'd you have in mind?

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Doug Jackson]

Sigh...

Sadly it is from.an era long before small system standards.  How cool would
the world be if we could have standardised on a single floppy format.

We couldn't even get RS232 right

On Sat, 14 Mar. 2020, 10:56 am James Zeun,  wrote:

> You know what, it's very tempting as I find soldering very cathartic. But
> the cable is ordered now.
>
> I'm gutted the DVI writes floppys in a different format to the TPDD. Curse
> you Tandy!
>
>
>
> On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, 6:16 pm Brian K. White,  wrote:
>
>> On 3/13/20 5:15 AM, James Zeun wrote:
>> > Well of course I knew I could buy a £4 cable and save myself half an
>> > hour soldering 40 wires, well 80! What do you take me for some sort of
>> > idiot? *Cough* :-P
>> >
>> > There's always someone with a bright idea. Well I'm going to make
>> coffee
>> > and try to not feel too disappointed about all that soldering I'm
>> > missing out on, now I have a 30cm extension cable ordered.
>> >
>> > *Goes off grumbling to himself*
>> >
>> > Thanks Brian! ;-)
>>
>> Someone else said splice you didn't, but in this same conversation, so I
>> just addressed it all in one post.
>>
>> Are you *sure* you don't want to perform 80 solder and heat-shrink
>> splices? It can be very zen. :)
>>
>> --
>> bkw
>>
>> > On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, 5:34 am Brian White, > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > It's easier than that. If you take pretty much any idc connector and
>> > put it back to back or hed yo head with another, the end result is
>> > the "twist" where pin 1 switches places with pin 40, pin 2 switches
>> > places with pin 39, etc.
>> >
>> > What I mean by "any idc" is, for instance, a wire-to-board back to
>> > back with a male pin header. That makes a Model 102 or 200 cable.
>> >
>> >
>> http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable#Cable_supporting_models_102_and_200_only
>> >
>> > Another form of the same thing is if you put 2 male pin headers back
>> > to back, that makes an adapter that can serve as the the twisty part
>> > on a cable set that works on all 3 models.
>> >
>> > http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable
>> >
>> > Or head to head: Mike Stein showed me (well everyone) that if you
>> > just take any standard 40 pin cables and butt two female ends face
>> > to face with a "gender changer" pin header, that results in the same
>> > twist.
>> >
>> > That page above has links to buy all the odd parts for the different
>> > ways to do it.
>> >
>> > But for a pcb to do the switcheroo, the pcb is nothing more than 40
>> > straight lines just to make it easier to solder two plugs back to
>> > back. See the "twist adapter" link in that page.
>> >
>> > You don't have to splice anything to make the cable longer. Just buy
>> > or make a bog-standard 40 pin male-female extension cable, and stick
>> > it on the DVI end of the cable. They are readily available pre-made
>> > and cheap these days in the form of "gpio" cables for arduino or
>> > raspberry pi.
>> >
>> > You can search "male female gpio" or similar on ebay or just pick a
>> > length here:
>> >
>> > http://www.cablesonline.com/240pinidedir.html
>> >
>> > --
>> > bkw
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 5:33 PM RETRO Innovations
>> > mailto:go4re...@go4retro.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > On 3/12/2020 4:17 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> Hi Jim,
>> >> I wouldn't call it a newbie mistake ;-) Those 'non-standard'
>> >> 40-pin DIP headers have been impossible to find; maybe with
>> >> your resources you can find some somewhere so they can just
>> >> simply be crimped on.
>> >
>> > I'm wondering if the switch could be made at the other end, with
>> > a small PCB and the respective female header attached to it...
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> bkw
>>
>

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[James Zeun]

You know what, it's very tempting as I find soldering very cathartic. But
the cable is ordered now.

I'm gutted the DVI writes floppys in a different format to the TPDD. Curse
you Tandy!



On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, 6:16 pm Brian K. White,  wrote:

> On 3/13/20 5:15 AM, James Zeun wrote:
> > Well of course I knew I could buy a £4 cable and save myself half an
> > hour soldering 40 wires, well 80! What do you take me for some sort of
> > idiot? *Cough* :-P
> >
> > There's always someone with a bright idea. Well I'm going to make coffee
> > and try to not feel too disappointed about all that soldering I'm
> > missing out on, now I have a 30cm extension cable ordered.
> >
> > *Goes off grumbling to himself*
> >
> > Thanks Brian! ;-)
>
> Someone else said splice you didn't, but in this same conversation, so I
> just addressed it all in one post.
>
> Are you *sure* you don't want to perform 80 solder and heat-shrink
> splices? It can be very zen. :)
>
> --
> bkw
>
> > On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, 5:34 am Brian White,  > > wrote:
> >
> > It's easier than that. If you take pretty much any idc connector and
> > put it back to back or hed yo head with another, the end result is
> > the "twist" where pin 1 switches places with pin 40, pin 2 switches
> > places with pin 39, etc.
> >
> > What I mean by "any idc" is, for instance, a wire-to-board back to
> > back with a male pin header. That makes a Model 102 or 200 cable.
> >
> >
> http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable#Cable_supporting_models_102_and_200_only
> >
> > Another form of the same thing is if you put 2 male pin headers back
> > to back, that makes an adapter that can serve as the the twisty part
> > on a cable set that works on all 3 models.
> >
> > http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable
> >
> > Or head to head: Mike Stein showed me (well everyone) that if you
> > just take any standard 40 pin cables and butt two female ends face
> > to face with a "gender changer" pin header, that results in the same
> > twist.
> >
> > That page above has links to buy all the odd parts for the different
> > ways to do it.
> >
> > But for a pcb to do the switcheroo, the pcb is nothing more than 40
> > straight lines just to make it easier to solder two plugs back to
> > back. See the "twist adapter" link in that page.
> >
> > You don't have to splice anything to make the cable longer. Just buy
> > or make a bog-standard 40 pin male-female extension cable, and stick
> > it on the DVI end of the cable. They are readily available pre-made
> > and cheap these days in the form of "gpio" cables for arduino or
> > raspberry pi.
> >
> > You can search "male female gpio" or similar on ebay or just pick a
> > length here:
> >
> > http://www.cablesonline.com/240pinidedir.html
> >
> > --
> > bkw
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 5:33 PM RETRO Innovations
> > mailto:go4re...@go4retro.com>> wrote:
> >
> > On 3/12/2020 4:17 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi Jim,
> >> I wouldn't call it a newbie mistake ;-) Those 'non-standard'
> >> 40-pin DIP headers have been impossible to find; maybe with
> >> your resources you can find some somewhere so they can just
> >> simply be crimped on.
> >
> > I'm wondering if the switch could be made at the other end, with
> > a small PCB and the respective female header attached to it...
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> bkw
>

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Brian K. White]

On 3/13/20 5:15 AM, James Zeun wrote:
Well of course I knew I could buy a £4 cable and save myself half an 
hour soldering 40 wires, well 80! What do you take me for some sort of 
idiot? *Cough* :-P


There's always someone with a bright idea. Well I'm going to make coffee 
and try to not feel too disappointed about all that soldering I'm 
missing out on, now I have a 30cm extension cable ordered.


*Goes off grumbling to himself*

Thanks Brian! ;-)


Someone else said splice you didn't, but in this same conversation, so I 
just addressed it all in one post.


Are you *sure* you don't want to perform 80 solder and heat-shrink 
splices? It can be very zen. :)


--
bkw

On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, 5:34 am Brian White, > wrote:


It's easier than that. If you take pretty much any idc connector and
put it back to back or hed yo head with another, the end result is
the "twist" where pin 1 switches places with pin 40, pin 2 switches
places with pin 39, etc.

What I mean by "any idc" is, for instance, a wire-to-board back to
back with a male pin header. That makes a Model 102 or 200 cable.


http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable#Cable_supporting_models_102_and_200_only

Another form of the same thing is if you put 2 male pin headers back
to back, that makes an adapter that can serve as the the twisty part
on a cable set that works on all 3 models.

http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable

Or head to head: Mike Stein showed me (well everyone) that if you
just take any standard 40 pin cables and butt two female ends face
to face with a "gender changer" pin header, that results in the same
twist.

That page above has links to buy all the odd parts for the different
ways to do it.

But for a pcb to do the switcheroo, the pcb is nothing more than 40
straight lines just to make it easier to solder two plugs back to
back. See the "twist adapter" link in that page.

You don't have to splice anything to make the cable longer. Just buy
or make a bog-standard 40 pin male-female extension cable, and stick
it on the DVI end of the cable. They are readily available pre-made
and cheap these days in the form of "gpio" cables for arduino or
raspberry pi.

You can search "male female gpio" or similar on ebay or just pick a
length here:

http://www.cablesonline.com/240pinidedir.html

-- 
bkw


On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 5:33 PM RETRO Innovations
mailto:go4re...@go4retro.com>> wrote:

On 3/12/2020 4:17 PM, Mike Stein wrote:


Hi Jim,
I wouldn't call it a newbie mistake ;-) Those 'non-standard'
40-pin DIP headers have been impossible to find; maybe with
your resources you can find some somewhere so they can just
simply be crimped on.


I'm wondering if the switch could be made at the other end, with
a small PCB and the respective female header attached to it...





--
bkw

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> 
> I'm displaying the DVI through RF or UHF if you prefer and the picture
> while a little fuzzy is perfectly acceptable given the age. I've not
> actually look in to the DVI's other video output option, which I think
> was intended for Tandy branded monitors. 

The video monitor output produces an NTSC compatible composite video signal, so 
it could be fed into any TV which accepts NTSC composite (usually a yellow RCA 
jack).  The RF output is just taking the monitor output signal and modulating 
it to the broadcast TV frequency for US channel 3 or 4 (based on the setting of 
the switch).

> Random question does the DVI save data to floppy disk in the same format
> as the TPDD?

Sorry, it does not.  (Even if you installed a 3.5" disk drive in the DVI.)







jim

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[James Zeun]

Well of course I knew I could buy a £4 cable and save myself half an hour
soldering 40 wires, well 80! What do you take me for some sort of idiot?
*Cough* :-P

There's always someone with a bright idea. Well I'm going to make coffee
and try to not feel too disappointed about all that soldering I'm missing
out on, now I have a 30cm extension cable ordered.

*Goes off grumbling to himself*

Thanks Brian! ;-)






On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, 5:34 am Brian White,  wrote:

> It's easier than that. If you take pretty much any idc connector and put
> it back to back or hed yo head with another, the end result is the "twist"
> where pin 1 switches places with pin 40, pin 2 switches places with pin 39,
> etc.
>
> What I mean by "any idc" is, for instance, a wire-to-board back to back
> with a male pin header. That makes a Model 102 or 200 cable.
>
>
> http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable#Cable_supporting_models_102_and_200_only
>
> Another form of the same thing is if you put 2 male pin headers back to
> back, that makes an adapter that can serve as the the twisty part on a
> cable set that works on all 3 models.
>
> http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable
>
> Or head to head: Mike Stein showed me (well everyone) that if you just
> take any standard 40 pin cables and butt two female ends face to face with
> a "gender changer" pin header, that results in the same twist.
>
> That page above has links to buy all the odd parts for the different ways
> to do it.
>
> But for a pcb to do the switcheroo, the pcb is nothing more than 40
> straight lines just to make it easier to solder two plugs back to back. See
> the "twist adapter" link in that page.
>
> You don't have to splice anything to make the cable longer. Just buy or
> make a bog-standard 40 pin male-female extension cable, and stick it on the
> DVI end of the cable. They are readily available pre-made and cheap these
> days in the form of "gpio" cables for arduino or raspberry pi.
>
> You can search "male female gpio" or similar on ebay or just pick a length
> here:
>
> http://www.cablesonline.com/240pinidedir.html
>
> --
> bkw
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 5:33 PM RETRO Innovations 
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/12/2020 4:17 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> I wouldn't call it a newbie mistake ;-) Those 'non-standard' 40-pin DIP
>> headers have been impossible to find; maybe with your resources you can
>> find some somewhere so they can just simply be crimped on.
>>
>>
>> I'm wondering if the switch could be made at the other end, with a small
>> PCB and the respective female header attached to it...
>>
>>

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Brian White]

It's easier than that. If you take pretty much any idc connector and put it
back to back or hed yo head with another, the end result is the "twist"
where pin 1 switches places with pin 40, pin 2 switches places with pin 39,
etc.

What I mean by "any idc" is, for instance, a wire-to-board back to back
with a male pin header. That makes a Model 102 or 200 cable.

http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable#Cable_supporting_models_102_and_200_only

Another form of the same thing is if you put 2 male pin headers back to
back, that makes an adapter that can serve as the the twisty part on a
cable set that works on all 3 models.

http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface:_Cable

Or head to head: Mike Stein showed me (well everyone) that if you just take
any standard 40 pin cables and butt two female ends face to face with a
"gender changer" pin header, that results in the same twist.

That page above has links to buy all the odd parts for the different ways
to do it.

But for a pcb to do the switcheroo, the pcb is nothing more than 40
straight lines just to make it easier to solder two plugs back to back. See
the "twist adapter" link in that page.

You don't have to splice anything to make the cable longer. Just buy or
make a bog-standard 40 pin male-female extension cable, and stick it on the
DVI end of the cable. They are readily available pre-made and cheap these
days in the form of "gpio" cables for arduino or raspberry pi.

You can search "male female gpio" or similar on ebay or just pick a length
here:

http://www.cablesonline.com/240pinidedir.html

-- 
bkw

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 5:33 PM RETRO Innovations 
wrote:

> On 3/12/2020 4:17 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
>
> 
> Hi Jim,
>
> I wouldn't call it a newbie mistake ;-) Those 'non-standard' 40-pin DIP
> headers have been impossible to find; maybe with your resources you can
> find some somewhere so they can just simply be crimped on.
>
>
> I'm wondering if the switch could be made at the other end, with a small
> PCB and the respective female header attached to it...
>
>

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Mike Stein]

If the correct DIP plug really can't be found there is my kludge of adding an 
F-F piece of cable connected with an M-M dual header to reverse the pinout; 
there's also a simple pcb on Oshpark to do the same thing, but neater:

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/EoeBHp2k

m
  - Original Message - 
  From: RETRO Innovations 
  To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 5:33 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable length


  On 3/12/2020 4:17 PM, Mike Stein wrote:

 
Hi Jim, 

I wouldn't call it a newbie mistake ;-) Those 'non-standard' 40-pin DIP 
headers have been impossible to find; maybe with your resources you can find 
some somewhere so they can just simply be crimped on.

  I'm wondering if the switch could be made at the other end, with a small PCB 
and the respective female header attached to it...

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[RETRO Innovations]

On 3/12/2020 4:17 PM, Mike Stein wrote:


Hi Jim,
I wouldn't call it a newbie mistake ;-) Those 'non-standard' 40-pin 
DIP headers have been impossible to find; maybe with your resources 
you can find some somewhere so they can just simply be crimped on.


I'm wondering if the switch could be made at the other end, with a small 
PCB and the respective female header attached to it...

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Mike Stein]

Hi Jim, 

I wouldn't call it a newbie mistake ;-) Those 'non-standard' 40-pin DIP headers 
have been impossible to find; maybe with your resources you can find some 
somewhere so they can just simply be crimped on.

I did find the original mfg. at one point but they didn't know anything about 
it.

Nice to see you at WoC last year, BTW; glad you could make it.

m


  - Original Message - 
  From: RETRO Innovations 
  To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable length


  On 3/12/2020 12:08 PM, James Zeun wrote:

The home made cable that came with the DVI kept dropping connection, as I 
have a replacement I don't feel so bad about experimenting with it. 

  I'm to blame, and I thought I should note it before someone else gets caught

  I have a TANDY cable, and 2 DVIs (package buy, as I recall).  I know how 
useless the DVI is without a cable, so I took a spot of IDE cable and purchased 
a 40 pin IDC header on Digikey to make up a second cable, test it, and then 
sell the unit.

  Notes:

a.. Stupid issue.  Forgot about the key in some IDE cables.  Not all have 
the key, the spare I selected had one.  No major issue, a bit of drill action 
and that's done (the cable has the connector in that spot, just covered with 
plastic) 
b.. More nuanced issue.  The headers from Digikey have the first wire going 
to pin 1, second to pin 40, etc.  But, as I recall, the Model 100 needs the 
first wire to to go to pin 40, then 1, then 39, etc. (might be backwards on the 
numbering, but hopefully the text illustrates the mirroring).  Anyway, I had to 
pull the unit apart, cut the cable into 2 strand sections, twist them, and then 
re-assemble.  

  I assume I made a newbie mistake on the header I needed to buy, but maybe 
this helps the next person wanting to construct a cable (or cable-like item)

  Jim





-- 
RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems
www.go4retro.com
store.go4retro.com

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[James Zeun]

Jim the header you used to connect to the underside of the M100 is pretty
darn sturdy, I'm not sure why it was acting up. Best guess it a loose wire
some where or something like that, I'll check it out with my meter when I
get started on this.
Still I'm going to re-purpose it and try make a new, extended super DVI
cable, which will hopefully allow me to use the DVI the way I want to.

For those who might like to know, thus far using the US DVI here in the UK
has been a breeze. I'm using a step down brick for now, with a new PSU on
the way. See link to new dual output PSU
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981279958.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.72964c4deypKfb

Hopefully when this arrives, it will be (fingers firmly crossed) an easy
job of swapping out the old US power supply with the new one and thus
eliminating the need for the step down brick.
I'm displaying the DVI through RF or UHF if you prefer and the picture
while a little fuzzy is perfectly acceptable given the age. I've not
actually look in to the DVI's other video output option, which I think was
intended for Tandy branded monitors. I'm slowly figuring out a method for
using the unit for writing, while being able to get the created document on
to my NADSbox. I use the M100 for creative writing and also doing articles
for my blog, so one way or the other the document needs to end up on SD
card.

Random question does the DVI save data to floppy disk in the same format as
the TPDD?



On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 19:21, RETRO Innovations 
wrote:

> On 3/12/2020 12:08 PM, James Zeun wrote:
>
> The home made cable that came with the DVI kept dropping connection, as I
> have a replacement I don't feel so bad about experimenting with it.
>
> I'm to blame, and I thought I should note it before someone else gets
> caught
>
> I have a TANDY cable, and 2 DVIs (package buy, as I recall).  I know how
> useless the DVI is without a cable, so I took a spot of IDE cable and
> purchased a 40 pin IDC header on Digikey to make up a second cable, test
> it, and then sell the unit.
>
> Notes:
>
>- Stupid issue.  Forgot about the key in some IDE cables.  Not all
>have the key, the spare I selected had one.  No major issue, a bit of drill
>action and that's done (the cable has the connector in that spot, just
>covered with plastic)
>- More nuanced issue.  The headers from Digikey have the first wire
>going to pin 1, second to pin 40, etc.  But, as I recall, the Model 100
>needs the first wire to to go to pin 40, then 1, then 39, etc. (might be
>backwards on the numbering, but hopefully the text illustrates the
>mirroring).  Anyway, I had to pull the unit apart, cut the cable into 2
>strand sections, twist them, and then re-assemble.
>
> I assume I made a newbie mistake on the header I needed to buy, but maybe
> this helps the next person wanting to construct a cable (or cable-like item)
>
> Jim
>
>
> --
> RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic 
> Systemswww.go4retro.comstore.go4retro.com
>
>

-- 
My retro tech blog and general ramblings
http://bytemyvdu.wordpress.com/

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[RETRO Innovations]

On 3/12/2020 12:08 PM, James Zeun wrote:
The home made cable that came with the DVI kept dropping connection, 
as I have a replacement I don't feel so bad about experimenting with it.


I'm to blame, and I thought I should note it before someone else gets caught

I have a TANDY cable, and 2 DVIs (package buy, as I recall).  I know how 
useless the DVI is without a cable, so I took a spot of IDE cable and 
purchased a 40 pin IDC header on Digikey to make up a second cable, test 
it, and then sell the unit.


Notes:

 * Stupid issue.  Forgot about the key in some IDE cables.  Not all
   have the key, the spare I selected had one.  No major issue, a bit
   of drill action and that's done (the cable has the connector in that
   spot, just covered with plastic)
 * More nuanced issue.  The headers from Digikey have the first wire
   going to pin 1, second to pin 40, etc.  But, as I recall, the Model
   100 needs the first wire to to go to pin 40, then 1, then 39, etc.
   (might be backwards on the numbering, but hopefully the text
   illustrates the mirroring).  Anyway, I had to pull the unit apart,
   cut the cable into 2 strand sections, twist them, and then re-assemble.

I assume I made a newbie mistake on the header I needed to buy, but 
maybe this helps the next person wanting to construct a cable (or 
cable-like item)


Jim


--
RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems
www.go4retro.com
store.go4retro.com

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Mike Stein]

No, my two foot cable is not shielded; as I said, I think the shielding on the 
original cables is more to satisfy the FCC about RFI than signal integrity.

It's never a good idea to splice a cable if you can avoid it, but I think if 
you're careful you'll probably get away with it.

m
  - Original Message - 
  From: James Zeun 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 1:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable length


  Hi everyone


  I thought I'd reply to this one and reply to MikeS at the same time.


  Again sorry for the double post, I was tired and using my phone, always a bad 
combination.


  So MikeS has a 2ft long cable, I'm not sure if this is shielded or not. Mike 
can you let us know?


  Brian, yes my cable did come from Arcadeshopper, it's a lovely cable, though 
I'll be honest I'm not sure how much I trust myself before bending a pin on 
that connector :-P


  The home made cable that came with the DVI kept dropping connection, as I 
have a replacement I don't feel so bad about experimenting with it. My plan was 
to chop the IDC connector off the end and solder a new length of cable to it. 
MikeS has set the bar with his 2 foot long cable, mine shouldn't be that long 
but it will have a join in it and my experience is that where ever you solder 
two wires together, you get a drop. Whether it is enough to upset communication 
between computer and DVI is something I guess I'm going to find out.




  On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 16:46, Mike Stein  wrote:

The original genuine cables *were* (partially) shielded, although probably 
more for RFI prevention than signal integrity:


  - Original Message - 
  From: Brian White 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 12:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable length


  I saw the post, I just didn't know an answer better than "easy enough to 
just try it" which is not all that helpful, but I guess at least then you would 
have known your post posted. 


  Although part of the cable has special wiring and connectors, once you 
have a proper cable, it doesn't require anything special to add an extension to 
the DVI end of it.


  I'm actually already amazed that a raw system bus going out over an 
unshielded ribbon cable works at all, but I guess the DVI came enough years 
after the Model 1 expansion interface debacle that they learned how to do that 
better. ;)


  If you got a new cable from Arcade Shopper I probably built it.


  I haven't tried any long runs or done any reliability testing to find the 
longest run that not merely appears to work, but is definitely safe from 
corruption. You don't want data you can't trust, and I don't know, and wouldn't 
want to rely on, how much fancy error detection and correction is going on at 
low levels. Like does every block written or read from the disk come along with 
a checksum? Until I knew that, I would want that bus to be as clean as possible.

  -- 

  bkw


  On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 11:04 AM James Zeun  wrote:



Hey everyone 


Think I might have messed up messaging the list last night, so I'm 
sending my post again. My apologies if it did go through.


Just a quick question, how long can a DVI link cable be? My new cable 
arrived today and while it's longer than what I had, I could still do with it 
being 20-30cm longer. I have the DVI sitting at an angle to the left of me on 
the desk, with my TV/Monitor flatscreen sitting on top of it. Using the new 
cable, it seems the intended way to use the DVI is with the M100 sat directly 
in front of it. However that isn't really comfortable nor practical with my 
setup, neither do I really want the monitor directly facing me. I regularly 
clear the center of my desk for soldering which is why the monitor sits in the 
corner out the way. 


I did get a home made cable with my DVI and while it is rather short 
(25cm), I'm wondering if I couldn't extending it another 30cm so the M100 can 
sit in front of me and the DVI to the side. 
  

As always any and all input is welcome, I'm probably going to give it a 
shot either way. I just thought I'd see if anyone new if there was a limit 
before signal loss is to much.


Cheers
James
-- 

My retro tech blog and general ramblings
http://bytemyvdu.wordpress.com/





  -- 

  My retro tech blog and general ramblings
  http://bytemyvdu.wordpress.com/

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[James Zeun]

Hi everyone

I thought I'd reply to this one and reply to MikeS at the same time.

Again sorry for the double post, I was tired and using my phone, always a
bad combination.

So MikeS has a 2ft long cable, I'm not sure if this is shielded or not.
Mike can you let us know?

Brian, yes my cable did come from Arcadeshopper, it's a lovely cable,
though I'll be honest I'm not sure how much I trust myself before bending a
pin on that connector :-P

The home made cable that came with the DVI kept dropping connection, as I
have a replacement I don't feel so bad about experimenting with it. My plan
was to chop the IDC connector off the end and solder a new length of cable
to it. MikeS has set the bar with his 2 foot long cable, mine shouldn't be
that long but it will have a join in it and my experience is that where
ever you solder two wires together, you get a drop. Whether it is enough to
upset communication between computer and DVI is something I guess I'm going
to find out.


On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 16:46, Mike Stein  wrote:

> The original genuine cables *were* (partially) shielded, although probably
> more for RFI prevention than signal integrity:
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Brian White 
> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2020 12:01 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [M100] DVI cable length
>
> I saw the post, I just didn't know an answer better than "easy enough to
> just try it" which is not all that helpful, but I guess at least then you
> would have known your post posted.
>
> Although part of the cable has special wiring and connectors, once you
> have a proper cable, it doesn't require anything special to add an
> extension to the DVI end of it.
>
> I'm actually already amazed that a raw system bus going out over an
> unshielded ribbon cable works at all, but I guess the DVI came enough years
> after the Model 1 expansion interface debacle that they learned how to do
> that better. ;)
>
> If you got a new cable from Arcade Shopper I probably built it.
>
> I haven't tried any long runs or done any reliability testing to find the
> longest run that not merely appears to work, but is definitely safe from
> corruption. You don't want data you can't trust, and I don't know, and
> wouldn't want to rely on, how much fancy error detection and correction is
> going on at low levels. Like does every block written or read from the disk
> come along with a checksum? Until I knew that, I would want that bus to be
> as clean as possible.
>
> --
> bkw
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 11:04 AM James Zeun  wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey everyone
>>
>> Think I might have messed up messaging the list last night, so I'm
>> sending my post again. My apologies if it did go through.
>>
>> Just a quick question, how long can a DVI link cable be? My new cable
>> arrived today and while it's longer than what I had, I could still do with
>> it being 20-30cm longer. I have the DVI sitting at an angle to the left of
>> me on the desk, with my TV/Monitor flatscreen sitting on top of it. Using
>> the new cable, it seems the intended way to use the DVI is with the M100
>> sat directly in front of it. However that isn't really comfortable nor
>> practical with my setup, neither do I really want the monitor directly
>> facing me. I regularly clear the center of my desk for soldering which is
>> why the monitor sits in the corner out the way.
>>
>> I did get a home made cable with my DVI and while it is rather short
>> (25cm), I'm wondering if I couldn't extending it another 30cm so the M100
>> can sit in front of me and the DVI to the side.
>>
>> As always any and all input is welcome, I'm probably going to give it a
>> shot either way. I just thought I'd see if anyone new if there was a limit
>> before signal loss is to much.
>>
>> Cheers
>> James
>> --
>> My retro tech blog and general ramblings
>> http://bytemyvdu.wordpress.com/
>>
>

-- 
My retro tech blog and general ramblings
http://bytemyvdu.wordpress.com/

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Mike Stein]

The original genuine cables *were* (partially) shielded, although probably more 
for RFI prevention than signal integrity:


  - Original Message - 
  From: Brian White 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 12:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable length


  I saw the post, I just didn't know an answer better than "easy enough to just 
try it" which is not all that helpful, but I guess at least then you would have 
known your post posted.


  Although part of the cable has special wiring and connectors, once you have a 
proper cable, it doesn't require anything special to add an extension to the 
DVI end of it.


  I'm actually already amazed that a raw system bus going out over an 
unshielded ribbon cable works at all, but I guess the DVI came enough years 
after the Model 1 expansion interface debacle that they learned how to do that 
better. ;)


  If you got a new cable from Arcade Shopper I probably built it.


  I haven't tried any long runs or done any reliability testing to find the 
longest run that not merely appears to work, but is definitely safe from 
corruption. You don't want data you can't trust, and I don't know, and wouldn't 
want to rely on, how much fancy error detection and correction is going on at 
low levels. Like does every block written or read from the disk come along with 
a checksum? Until I knew that, I would want that bus to be as clean as possible.

  -- 

  bkw


  On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 11:04 AM James Zeun  wrote:



Hey everyone


Think I might have messed up messaging the list last night, so I'm sending 
my post again. My apologies if it did go through.


Just a quick question, how long can a DVI link cable be? My new cable 
arrived today and while it's longer than what I had, I could still do with it 
being 20-30cm longer. I have the DVI sitting at an angle to the left of me on 
the desk, with my TV/Monitor flatscreen sitting on top of it. Using the new 
cable, it seems the intended way to use the DVI is with the M100 sat directly 
in front of it. However that isn't really comfortable nor practical with my 
setup, neither do I really want the monitor directly facing me. I regularly 
clear the center of my desk for soldering which is why the monitor sits in the 
corner out the way. 


I did get a home made cable with my DVI and while it is rather short 
(25cm), I'm wondering if I couldn't extending it another 30cm so the M100 can 
sit in front of me and the DVI to the side. 
  

As always any and all input is welcome, I'm probably going to give it a 
shot either way. I just thought I'd see if anyone new if there was a limit 
before signal loss is to much.


Cheers
James
-- 

My retro tech blog and general ramblings
http://bytemyvdu.wordpress.com/

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[MikeS]

Mine's 2 feet long, no problems.

You can't see the DVI in this pic but it's off to the left:


  - Original Message - 
  From: James Zeun 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 7:11 PM
  Subject: [M100] DVI cable length


  Hey everyone


  Just a quick question, how long can a DVI link cable be? My new cable arrived 
today and while it's longer than what I had, I could still do with it being 
20-30cm longer.

Re: [M100] DVI cable length

[Brian White]

I saw the post, I just didn't know an answer better than "easy enough to
just try it" which is not all that helpful, but I guess at least then you
would have known your post posted.

Although part of the cable has special wiring and connectors, once you have
a proper cable, it doesn't require anything special to add an extension to
the DVI end of it.

I'm actually already amazed that a raw system bus going out over an
unshielded ribbon cable works at all, but I guess the DVI came enough years
after the Model 1 expansion interface debacle that they learned how to do
that better. ;)

If you got a new cable from Arcade Shopper I probably built it.

I haven't tried any long runs or done any reliability testing to find the
longest run that not merely appears to work, but is definitely safe from
corruption. You don't want data you can't trust, and I don't know, and
wouldn't want to rely on, how much fancy error detection and correction is
going on at low levels. Like does every block written or read from the disk
come along with a checksum? Until I knew that, I would want that bus to be
as clean as possible.

-- 
bkw

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 11:04 AM James Zeun  wrote:

>
> Hey everyone
>
> Think I might have messed up messaging the list last night, so I'm sending
> my post again. My apologies if it did go through.
>
> Just a quick question, how long can a DVI link cable be? My new cable
> arrived today and while it's longer than what I had, I could still do with
> it being 20-30cm longer. I have the DVI sitting at an angle to the left of
> me on the desk, with my TV/Monitor flatscreen sitting on top of it. Using
> the new cable, it seems the intended way to use the DVI is with the M100
> sat directly in front of it. However that isn't really comfortable nor
> practical with my setup, neither do I really want the monitor directly
> facing me. I regularly clear the center of my desk for soldering which is
> why the monitor sits in the corner out the way.
>
> I did get a home made cable with my DVI and while it is rather short
> (25cm), I'm wondering if I couldn't extending it another 30cm so the M100
> can sit in front of me and the DVI to the side.
>
> As always any and all input is welcome, I'm probably going to give it a
> shot either way. I just thought I'd see if anyone new if there was a limit
> before signal loss is to much.
>
> Cheers
> James
> --
> My retro tech blog and general ramblings
> http://bytemyvdu.wordpress.com/
>

Re: [M100] DVI Manual

[Brian White]

Yes -ish. I have 2 manuals, but I have 2 DVI's, and ideally I'd prefer to
keep the manual and dvi together. But if no one else comes up with one I
might as well let someone have it who actively wants it. The manuals are
scanned on line so when I go to sell the 2nd dvi I can always print out a
nice copy.

I have un-wound the spiral on one to make a better quality scan that the
one on-line, but haven't done the scan yet. I don't want to run it through
the sheet feeder and I don't have a streamlined manual flatbed procedure
worked out yet. But assuming I ever do, then when I go to print that copy,
it could at least be a pretty good copy.

-- 
bkw

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020, 6:49 PM dano none  wrote:

> Does anyone have a spare DVI Manual that they would like to sell?
>
>

Re: [M100] DVI alternatives

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 7:48 PM Mike Stein  wrote:

> Not directly to a monitor but you can redirect the screen to the serial or
> parallel port; that would let you display on a terminal such as what Philip
> and Charles described, or even an old PC running a terminal program.
> Connect the terminal/PC to your big screen TV and connect the M100 to the
> PC via Bluetooth and relax on the couch.
>
> There are some gotchas though, mostly to do with correctly moving the
> cursor around on the foreign screen.
>

ISTR we were working on that.

It would be nice to, from BASIC

a) Change the Width + Height
b) Redirect I/O to the port
c) Have a working terminal to host on a PC that understands all M100 codes.
Maybe VT52 is enough. Of course this machine won't know the Model 100
character set > 127

But I don't thing we have all that do we?
We need a program to set the width, height and do the redirect.
Would be nice to have a terminal that can display all Model 100 characters
and handle all escapes.

Then it would be a true DVI alternative, at least as far as the display.

-- John.

Re: [M100] DVI alternatives

[Mike Stein]

Not directly to a monitor but you can redirect the screen to the serial or 
parallel port; that would let you display on a terminal such as what Philip and 
Charles described, or even an old PC running a terminal program. Connect the 
terminal/PC to your big screen TV and connect the M100 to the PC via Bluetooth 
and relax on the couch.

There are some gotchas though, mostly to do with correctly moving the cursor 
around on the foreign screen.
  - Original Message - 
  From: James Zeun 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 8:46 PM
  Subject: [M100] DVI alternatives


  As I'm going to become a DVi owner, I thought I'd pose this question.


  Are there other methods of outputting to a monitor with my M100?

Re: [M100] DVI

[Mike Stein]

Hello George & Jesse,

Replacing a DD 180/360K 5.25" drive with a 3.5" drive is straightforward, aside 
from the different power and data cables and the physical size of course, but 
in case there's any confusion, the format is NOT compatible with a TPDD.

Two 'combo' drives as shown would require a switch and some mods to select two 
drives out of the possible four.

No, there is no advantage per se to using 3.5" diskettes since the controller 
would still only access the normal 180KB, and of course the possible 
disadvantage is incompatibility with any other DVI.

Those pictures go back to a discussion many years ago about what kind of drives 
you could actually use in a DVI, so they were more proof of concept than 
practical mods; some people do prefer 3.5" diskettes though and/or have 
suitable drives on hand (or did back then ;-). Most (but not all) 1.4M HD 3.5" 
drives will work just fine as 740K DD drives.

Regarding the 5.25" DVI drives (and the TPDD drives discussed elsewhere) a 
double-sided drive and/or diskette will work just fine in place of a 
single-sided one, although of course only one side will be used (unless you add 
a switch to select the side).

As to density, there is much more difference between low (double) and high 
density 5.25" diskettes than 3.5"; using an HD 5.25" diskette instead of DD 
will almost certainly be unreliable at best whereas with 3.5" diskettes you can 
usually get away with it in a pinch if you cover the HD hole.

Finally, AFAIK unlike 5.25" and 8" diskettes there are no 'hard sector' 3.5" 
diskettes; in fact, they don't have any index or sector hole(s) at all, the 
index signal being created in the motor. I suspect that when the TPDD manual 
refers to "hard sectored" diskettes they mean that the sectors are located by 
reference to the index signal, whereas some systems ignore the index and locate 
sectors just by reading the track and looking for specific sector headers.

At least that's my take on it ;-)

m

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jesse Huyett 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 11:27 AM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI


  Hello All,
  George: I think your question is for Mike? I asked about using a Gotek in the 
DVi while he posted pictures of a single slot dual floppy drive.


  And Mike: Is there an advantage to having access to a 3.5" floppy? I assumed 
the controller would limit this to 360k.


  Regards


  On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 2:23 PM George Rimakis  wrote:

Hi Jesse, 


Is there any more information accompanying those mods that are pictured?


Best,

~George

On Mar 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:


  - Original Message - 
  From: Jesse Huyett 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:08 AM

  > Hello All,
  > Has anyone tried a Gotek/ HxC in the DVI?

  A Gotek might be a challenge but FWIW 3.5" drives work quite well.


  

  With a little futzing you could have both ;-)
  

Re: [M100] DVI

[daveishmael]

Thanks John,Most of my "serious work" w/BASIC is with my WinXP machine.  I use 
the 100 now and then for its portability, etc.  For now, the TPDD2, with the 
"right" disks are a step in the right direction.Dave


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: "John R. Hogerhuis"  
Date: 3/18/19  11:16 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: m...@bitchin100.com Subject: Re: 
[M100] DVI 


On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 11:06 AM daveishmael  wrote:
Thanks Kurt,I just bought those disks you gave me the link for.  I routinely 
use my 100 for writing small BASIC programs, but I have avoided larger programs 
because of the storage issue, and the fact that I wanted them backed up.  Enter 
the reason for buying the TPDD2 drive.  I did try the cassette recorder route 
but never got my hands on one that worked!!!Dave

Consider saving to a PC TPDD emulator over the serial connection... it is much 
more reliable (and the way most of us are doing it).
-- John. 

Re: [M100] DVI

[Kurt McCullum]

I almost bought those some time ago but I have more 720k (double sided low 
density) disks than I will ever use so I never bought them. Hope it all works 
out. Those are definitely the right disks. Quite rare these days to find a 
single sided low density disks. 

Most of my storage these days is done with the Android TPDD that I have setup. 
If you are looking for long term storage solutions you may want to investigate 
the various TPDD emulators. LaddieAlpha, mComm, desklink

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 11:06 AM, daveishmael wrote:
> Thanks Kurt,
> I just bought those disks you gave me the link for. I routinely use my 100 
> for writing small BASIC programs, but I have avoided larger programs because 
> of the storage issue, and the fact that I wanted them backed up. Enter the 
> reason for buying the TPDD2 drive. I did try the cassette recorder route but 
> never got my hands on one that worked!!!
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Kurt McCullum 
> Date: 3/18/19 10:08 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI
> 
> The HD floppies use a different magnetic composition on the physical media. 
> While you can 'sometimes' get a HD disk to work, they don't work well due to 
> the difference. I have never paid attention to the "hard sectors" portion of 
> the manual so that was new information to me. But that being said, I can 
> confirm that regular 720k disks, re-formatted in the TPDD2 have worked great 
> in my drive. Of the 30 or so I have continually used, I have only had one 
> problem, but that was due to my own stupidity.
> 
> Kurt
> 
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:36 AM, daveishmael wrote:
>> Thanks Kurt,
>> I tried formatting a typical 1.44MB disk "just for grins" and it didn't 
>> format. The TPDD2 manual specifies 80 tracks 160 "hard sectors", so are you 
>> sure these eBay disks will work. I remember the "old days" using 
>> hard-sectored 5-1/4" disks and compatibility was a HUGE issue.
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>> 
>>  Original message 
>> From: Kurt McCullum 
>> Date: 3/18/19 8:59 AM (GMT-08:00)
>> To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
>> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI
>> 
>> The TPDD2 along with the TPDD1 require regular SSDD disks which are hard to 
>> find. But any DSDD (720k) disk will work fine. 
>> 
>> Here is a link for the elusive single sided 3.5" floppy disks. But they are 
>> not cheap and the double sided can be had for much less.
>> 
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-inch-1DD-Single-Sided-Double-Density-floppy-disks-Rare-BASF-brand-50-pk/292635570200?hash=item4422707018:g:3E0AAOSwC-JbRAVE:sc:USPSPriority!92131!US!-1
>> 
>> Kurt
>> 
>> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 8:44 AM, daveishmael wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>> Speaking of 3.5" disks, is there a source for the hard-sectored disks for 
>>> the Portable Disk Drive 2??? The RS P/N is 26-415 or 26-416. The drive 
>>> works fine as does its boot disk, but extra disks seem to be unobtanium?
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>>> 
>>>  Original message 
>>> From: Jesse Huyett 
>>> Date: 3/18/19 8:27 AM (GMT-08:00)
>>> To: m...@bitchin100.com
>>> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI
>>> 
>>> Hello All,
>>> George: I think your question is for Mike? I asked about using a Gotek in 
>>> the DVi while he posted pictures of a single slot dual floppy drive.
>>> 
>>> And Mike: Is there an advantage to having access to a 3.5" floppy? I 
>>> assumed the controller would limit this to 360k.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 2:23 PM George Rimakis  wrote:
>>>> Hi Jesse,
>>>> 
>>>> Is there any more information accompanying those mods that are pictured?
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> ~George
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:
>>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>>> From: Jesse Huyett 
>>>>> To: m...@bitchin100.com 
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:08 AM
>>>>> > Hello All,
>>>>> > Has anyone tried a Gotek/ HxC in the DVI?
>>>>> 
>>>>> A Gotek might be a challenge but FWIW 3.5" drives work quite well.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> With a little futzing you could have both ;-)
>>>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [M100] DVI

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 11:06 AM daveishmael  wrote:

> Thanks Kurt,
> I just bought those disks you gave me the link for.  I routinely use my
> 100 for writing small BASIC programs, but I have avoided larger programs
> because of the storage issue, and the fact that I wanted them backed up.
> Enter the reason for buying the TPDD2 drive.  I did try the cassette
> recorder route but never got my hands on one that worked!!!
> Dave
>
>
Consider saving to a PC TPDD emulator over the serial connection... it is
much more reliable (and the way most of us are doing it).

-- John.

Re: [M100] DVI

[daveishmael]

Thanks Kurt,I just bought those disks you gave me the link for.  I routinely 
use my 100 for writing small BASIC programs, but I have avoided larger programs 
because of the storage issue, and the fact that I wanted them backed up.  Enter 
the reason for buying the TPDD2 drive.  I did try the cassette recorder route 
but never got my hands on one that worked!!!Dave


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: Kurt McCullum  
Date: 3/18/19  10:08 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Subject: Re: 
[M100] DVI 
The HD floppies use a different magnetic composition on the physical media. 
While you can 'sometimes' get a HD disk to work, they don't work well due to 
the difference. I have never paid attention to the "hard sectors" portion of 
the manual so that was new information to me. But that being said, I can 
confirm that regular 720k disks, re-formatted in the TPDD2 have worked great in 
my drive. Of the 30 or so I have continually used, I have only had one problem, 
but that was due to my own stupidity.

Kurt
On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:36 AM, daveishmael wrote:
Thanks Kurt,
I tried formatting a typical 1.44MB disk "just for grins" and it didn't format. 
 The TPDD2 manual specifies 80 tracks 160 "hard sectors", so are you sure these 
eBay disks will work.  I remember the "old days" using hard-sectored 5-1/4" 
disks and compatibility was a HUGE issue.
Dave



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

 Original message 
From: Kurt McCullum 
Date: 3/18/19  8:59 AM  (GMT-08:00)
To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] DVI

The TPDD2 along with the TPDD1 require regular SSDD disks which are hard to 
find. But any DSDD (720k) disk will work fine. 

Here is a link for the elusive single sided 3.5" floppy disks. But they are not 
cheap and the double sided can be had for much less.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-inch-1DD-Single-Sided-Double-Density-floppy-disks-Rare-BASF-brand-50-pk/292635570200?hash=item4422707018:g:3E0AAOSwC-JbRAVE:sc:USPSPriority!92131!US!-1

Kurt

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 8:44 AM, daveishmael wrote:
Hello all,
Speaking of 3.5" disks, is there a source for the hard-sectored disks for the 
Portable Disk Drive 2???  The RS P/N is 26-415 or 26-416.  The drive works fine 
as does its boot disk, but extra disks seem to be unobtanium?
Dave



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

 Original message 
From: Jesse Huyett 
Date: 3/18/19  8:27 AM  (GMT-08:00)
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] DVI

Hello All,
George: I think your question is for Mike? I asked about using a Gotek in the 
DVi while he posted pictures of a single slot dual floppy drive.

And Mike: Is there an advantage to having access to a 3.5" floppy? I assumed 
the controller would limit this to 360k.

Regards

On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 2:23 PM George Rimakis  wrote:
Hi Jesse,

Is there any more information accompanying those mods that are pictured?

Best,
~George

On Mar 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:
- Original Message - 
From: Jesse Huyett 
To: m...@bitchin100.com 
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:08 
AM> Hello All,
> Has anyone tried a Gotek/ 
HxC in the DVI? 
A Gotek might be a challenge but FWIW 3.5" drives 
work quite well.


 
With a little futzing you could have both 
;-)

Re: [M100] DVI

[daveishmael]

Thanks Kurt,I just bought those disks you gave me the link for.  I routinely 
use my 100 for writing small BASIC programs, but I have avoided larger programs 
because of the storage issue, and the fact that I wanted them backed up.  Enter 
the reason for buying the TPDD2 drive.  I did try the cassette recorder route 
but never got my hands on one that worked!!!Dave


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: Kurt McCullum  
Date: 3/18/19  10:08 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Subject: Re: 
[M100] DVI 
The HD floppies use a different magnetic composition on the physical media. 
While you can 'sometimes' get a HD disk to work, they don't work well due to 
the difference. I have never paid attention to the "hard sectors" portion of 
the manual so that was new information to me. But that being said, I can 
confirm that regular 720k disks, re-formatted in the TPDD2 have worked great in 
my drive. Of the 30 or so I have continually used, I have only had one problem, 
but that was due to my own stupidity.

Kurt
On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:36 AM, daveishmael wrote:
Thanks Kurt,
I tried formatting a typical 1.44MB disk "just for grins" and it didn't format. 
 The TPDD2 manual specifies 80 tracks 160 "hard sectors", so are you sure these 
eBay disks will work.  I remember the "old days" using hard-sectored 5-1/4" 
disks and compatibility was a HUGE issue.
Dave



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

 Original message 
From: Kurt McCullum 
Date: 3/18/19  8:59 AM  (GMT-08:00)
To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] DVI

The TPDD2 along with the TPDD1 require regular SSDD disks which are hard to 
find. But any DSDD (720k) disk will work fine. 

Here is a link for the elusive single sided 3.5" floppy disks. But they are not 
cheap and the double sided can be had for much less.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-inch-1DD-Single-Sided-Double-Density-floppy-disks-Rare-BASF-brand-50-pk/292635570200?hash=item4422707018:g:3E0AAOSwC-JbRAVE:sc:USPSPriority!92131!US!-1

Kurt

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 8:44 AM, daveishmael wrote:
Hello all,
Speaking of 3.5" disks, is there a source for the hard-sectored disks for the 
Portable Disk Drive 2???  The RS P/N is 26-415 or 26-416.  The drive works fine 
as does its boot disk, but extra disks seem to be unobtanium?
Dave



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

 Original message 
From: Jesse Huyett 
Date: 3/18/19  8:27 AM  (GMT-08:00)
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] DVI

Hello All,
George: I think your question is for Mike? I asked about using a Gotek in the 
DVi while he posted pictures of a single slot dual floppy drive.

And Mike: Is there an advantage to having access to a 3.5" floppy? I assumed 
the controller would limit this to 360k.

Regards

On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 2:23 PM George Rimakis  wrote:
Hi Jesse,

Is there any more information accompanying those mods that are pictured?

Best,
~George

On Mar 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:
- Original Message - 
From: Jesse Huyett 
To: m...@bitchin100.com 
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:08 
AM> Hello All,
> Has anyone tried a Gotek/ 
HxC in the DVI? 
A Gotek might be a challenge but FWIW 3.5" drives 
work quite well.


 
With a little futzing you could have both 
;-)

Re: [M100] DVI

[Kurt McCullum]

The HD floppies use a different magnetic composition on the physical media. 
While you can 'sometimes' get a HD disk to work, they don't work well due to 
the difference. I have never paid attention to the "hard sectors" portion of 
the manual so that was new information to me. But that being said, I can 
confirm that regular 720k disks, re-formatted in the TPDD2 have worked great in 
my drive. Of the 30 or so I have continually used, I have only had one problem, 
but that was due to my own stupidity.

Kurt

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:36 AM, daveishmael wrote:
> Thanks Kurt,
> I tried formatting a typical 1.44MB disk "just for grins" and it didn't 
> format. The TPDD2 manual specifies 80 tracks 160 "hard sectors", so are you 
> sure these eBay disks will work. I remember the "old days" using 
> hard-sectored 5-1/4" disks and compatibility was a HUGE issue.
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Kurt McCullum 
> Date: 3/18/19 8:59 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI
> 
> The TPDD2 along with the TPDD1 require regular SSDD disks which are hard to 
> find. But any DSDD (720k) disk will work fine. 
> 
> Here is a link for the elusive single sided 3.5" floppy disks. But they are 
> not cheap and the double sided can be had for much less.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-inch-1DD-Single-Sided-Double-Density-floppy-disks-Rare-BASF-brand-50-pk/292635570200?hash=item4422707018:g:3E0AAOSwC-JbRAVE:sc:USPSPriority!92131!US!-1
> 
> Kurt
> 
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 8:44 AM, daveishmael wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> Speaking of 3.5" disks, is there a source for the hard-sectored disks for 
>> the Portable Disk Drive 2??? The RS P/N is 26-415 or 26-416. The drive works 
>> fine as does its boot disk, but extra disks seem to be unobtanium?
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>> 
>>  Original message 
>> From: Jesse Huyett 
>> Date: 3/18/19 8:27 AM (GMT-08:00)
>> To: m...@bitchin100.com
>> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI
>> 
>> Hello All,
>> George: I think your question is for Mike? I asked about using a Gotek in 
>> the DVi while he posted pictures of a single slot dual floppy drive.
>> 
>> And Mike: Is there an advantage to having access to a 3.5" floppy? I assumed 
>> the controller would limit this to 360k.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 2:23 PM George Rimakis  wrote:
>>> Hi Jesse,
>>> 
>>> Is there any more information accompanying those mods that are pictured?
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> ~George
>>> 
>>> On Mar 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:
>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>> From: Jesse Huyett 
>>>> To: m...@bitchin100.com 
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:08 AM
>>>> > Hello All,
>>>> > Has anyone tried a Gotek/ HxC in the DVI?
>>>> 
>>>> A Gotek might be a challenge but FWIW 3.5" drives work quite well.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> With a little futzing you could have both ;-)
>>>> 
> 

Re: [M100] DVI

[daveishmael]

Thanks Kurt,I tried formatting a typical 1.44MB disk "just for grins" and it 
didn't format.  The TPDD2 manual specifies 80 tracks 160 "hard sectors", so are 
you sure these eBay disks will work.  I remember the "old days" using 
hard-sectored 5-1/4" disks and compatibility was a HUGE issue.Dave


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: Kurt McCullum  
Date: 3/18/19  8:59 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Subject: Re: 
[M100] DVI 
The TPDD2 along with the TPDD1 require regular SSDD disks which are hard to 
find. But any DSDD (720k) disk will work fine. 

Here is a link for the elusive single sided 3.5" floppy disks. But they are not 
cheap and the double sided can be had for much less.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-inch-1DD-Single-Sided-Double-Density-floppy-disks-Rare-BASF-brand-50-pk/292635570200?hash=item4422707018:g:3E0AAOSwC-JbRAVE:sc:USPSPriority!92131!US!-1

Kurt
On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 8:44 AM, daveishmael wrote:
Hello all,
Speaking of 3.5" disks, is there a source for the hard-sectored disks for the 
Portable Disk Drive 2???  The RS P/N is 26-415 or 26-416.  The drive works fine 
as does its boot disk, but extra disks seem to be unobtanium?
Dave



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

 Original message 
From: Jesse Huyett 
Date: 3/18/19  8:27 AM  (GMT-08:00)
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] DVI

Hello All,
George: I think your question is for Mike? I asked about using a Gotek in the 
DVi while he posted pictures of a single slot dual floppy drive.

And Mike: Is there an advantage to having access to a 3.5" floppy? I assumed 
the controller would limit this to 360k.

Regards

On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 2:23 PM George Rimakis  wrote:
Hi Jesse,

Is there any more information accompanying those mods that are pictured?

Best,
~George

On Mar 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:
- Original Message - 
From: Jesse Huyett 
To: m...@bitchin100.com 
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:08 
AM> Hello All,
> Has anyone tried a Gotek/ 
HxC in the DVI? 
A Gotek might be a challenge but FWIW 3.5" drives 
work quite well.


 
With a little futzing you could have both 
;-)

Re: [M100] DVI

[daveishmael]

Thanks Kurt,I tried formatting a typical 1.44MB disk "just for grins" and it 
didn't format.  The TPDD2 manual specifies 80 tracks 160 "hard sectors", so are 
you sure these eBay disks will work.  I remember the "old days" using 
hard-sectored 5-1/4" disks and compatibility was a HUGE issue.Dave


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: Kurt McCullum  
Date: 3/18/19  8:59 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Subject: Re: 
[M100] DVI 
The TPDD2 along with the TPDD1 require regular SSDD disks which are hard to 
find. But any DSDD (720k) disk will work fine. 

Here is a link for the elusive single sided 3.5" floppy disks. But they are not 
cheap and the double sided can be had for much less.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-inch-1DD-Single-Sided-Double-Density-floppy-disks-Rare-BASF-brand-50-pk/292635570200?hash=item4422707018:g:3E0AAOSwC-JbRAVE:sc:USPSPriority!92131!US!-1

Kurt
On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 8:44 AM, daveishmael wrote:
Hello all,
Speaking of 3.5" disks, is there a source for the hard-sectored disks for the 
Portable Disk Drive 2???  The RS P/N is 26-415 or 26-416.  The drive works fine 
as does its boot disk, but extra disks seem to be unobtanium?
Dave



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

 Original message 
From: Jesse Huyett 
Date: 3/18/19  8:27 AM  (GMT-08:00)
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] DVI

Hello All,
George: I think your question is for Mike? I asked about using a Gotek in the 
DVi while he posted pictures of a single slot dual floppy drive.

And Mike: Is there an advantage to having access to a 3.5" floppy? I assumed 
the controller would limit this to 360k.

Regards

On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 2:23 PM George Rimakis  wrote:
Hi Jesse,

Is there any more information accompanying those mods that are pictured?

Best,
~George

On Mar 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:
- Original Message - 
From: Jesse Huyett 
To: m...@bitchin100.com 
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:08 
AM> Hello All,
> Has anyone tried a Gotek/ 
HxC in the DVI? 
A Gotek might be a challenge but FWIW 3.5" drives 
work quite well.


 
With a little futzing you could have both 
;-)

Re: [M100] DVI

[Kurt McCullum]

The TPDD2 along with the TPDD1 require regular SSDD disks which are hard to 
find. But any DSDD (720k) disk will work fine. 

Here is a link for the elusive single sided 3.5" floppy disks. But they are not 
cheap and the double sided can be had for much less.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-inch-1DD-Single-Sided-Double-Density-floppy-disks-Rare-BASF-brand-50-pk/292635570200?hash=item4422707018:g:3E0AAOSwC-JbRAVE:sc:USPSPriority!92131!US!-1

Kurt

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 8:44 AM, daveishmael wrote:
> Hello all,
> Speaking of 3.5" disks, is there a source for the hard-sectored disks for the 
> Portable Disk Drive 2??? The RS P/N is 26-415 or 26-416. The drive works fine 
> as does its boot disk, but extra disks seem to be unobtanium?
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Jesse Huyett 
> Date: 3/18/19 8:27 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: m...@bitchin100.com
> Subject: Re: [M100] DVI
> 
> Hello All,
> George: I think your question is for Mike? I asked about using a Gotek in the 
> DVi while he posted pictures of a single slot dual floppy drive.
> 
> And Mike: Is there an advantage to having access to a 3.5" floppy? I assumed 
> the controller would limit this to 360k.
> 
> Regards
> 
> On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 2:23 PM George Rimakis  wrote:
>> Hi Jesse,
>> 
>> Is there any more information accompanying those mods that are pictured?
>> 
>> Best,
>> ~George
>> 
>> On Mar 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: Jesse Huyett 
>>> To: m...@bitchin100.com 
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:08 AM
>>> > Hello All,
>>> > Has anyone tried a Gotek/ HxC in the DVI?
>>> 
>>> A Gotek might be a challenge but FWIW 3.5" drives work quite well.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> With a little futzing you could have both ;-)
>>> 

Re: [M100] DVI

[daveishmael]

Hello all,Speaking of 3.5" disks, is there a source for the hard-sectored disks 
for the Portable Disk Drive 2???  The RS P/N is 26-415 or 26-416.  The drive 
works fine as does its boot disk, but extra disks seem to be unobtanium?Dave


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
 Original message From: Jesse Huyett  Date: 
3/18/19  8:27 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: m...@bitchin100.com Subject: Re: [M100] DVI 
Hello All,George: I think your question is for Mike? I asked about using a 
Gotek in the DVi while he posted pictures of a single slot dual floppy drive.
And Mike: Is there an advantage to having access to a 3.5" floppy? I assumed 
the controller would limit this to 360k.
Regards
On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 2:23 PM George Rimakis  wrote:
Hi Jesse,
Is there any more information accompanying those mods that are pictured?
Best,
~George
On Mar 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:








- Original Message - 
From: Jesse Huyett 

To: m...@bitchin100.com 
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:08 
AM

> Hello All,
> Has anyone tried a Gotek/ 
HxC in the DVI?
 
A Gotek might be a challenge but FWIW 3.5" drives 
work quite well.



 
With a little futzing you could have both 
;-)

Re: [M100] DVI

[Jesse Huyett]

Hello All,
George: I think your question is for Mike? I asked about using a Gotek in
the DVi while he posted pictures of a single slot dual floppy drive.

And Mike: Is there an advantage to having access to a 3.5" floppy? I
assumed the controller would limit this to 360k.

Regards

On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 2:23 PM George Rimakis  wrote:

> Hi Jesse,
>
> Is there any more information accompanying those mods that are pictured?
>
> Best,
> ~George
>
> On Mar 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Jesse Huyett
> To: m...@bitchin100.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:08 AM
> > Hello All,
> > Has anyone tried a Gotek/ HxC in the DVI?
>
> A Gotek might be a challenge but FWIW 3.5" drives work quite well.
>
> 
>
> With a little futzing you could have both ;-)
> 
>
>

Re: [M100] DVI Disk Formatting

[Brian K. White]

On 3/15/19 9:09 PM, George Rimakis wrote:

Hi all,

Sorry to bombard the list with DVI related posts, but I am having an issue.

So, I have two DVI’s one with two drives, one with one.

At first I used the DVI with one drive, was able to format the boot disk, and 
make a copy. After that I am not able to format any additional disks. I just 
get a Format Failed error.

I tried the second DVI, and only one of the two drives can format the disks. 
They all can read and write to disks that are formatted however.

I took them apart and cleaned the heads with isopropyl, but nothing has changed.

Does any have experience with 180k drives like this being unable to format, but 
otherwise appearing fine?

~George


First just make sure you are using SD or DD disks (360K) not HD (1.2M).

Other than that there are many age related failure points on all old 
floppy drives.


Make sure all the mechanicals are good obviously.

The rpm adjustment is easy, as there is a strobe sticker on the main 
spindle and a trim pot on the spindle motor driver board (there is also 
a trim pot on the main board, don't tough that one)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jbBSq96GExzKCw727
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ww6o6fXGzDfuTAcP9

For radial alignment, if you have an old 386-486 era machine (so it has 
a floppy controller that's old enough) you can try this method using 
ImageDisk:

https://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2010-06-28-alignment-tandon-m100.htm
Note this method relies on having a disk that you believe has proper 
alignment to start with, to use as a reference. It can't be one you 
formatted in the drive previously, or in any other old questionable 
drive. Ideally it should be a few different commercially produced disks 
that previous owners probably never re-formatted.


That's about all the low hanging fruit other than you could try 
replacing the electrolytic caps and just visually inspect traces.. 
Beyond that you need to know how to actually diagnose electronics to 
find components that have gone bad.


Now here's a question for the group...
Drives had to have the radial alignment calibrated very exactly at the 
factory using special alignment disks, and then locked down for all time 
right?


I wonder if the plastic sheets that all disks are made of have shrunk at 
all over 30-40 years, making the *disks* out of alignment, causing 
people to take technically proper drives and move them actually out of 
the proper spec, so that they can read 40 year old disks??


(Or more specifically, 40 year old formatting. Even if the mylar sheet 
has shrunk, it would still format to spec again just fine, by just 
formatting it today in a properly aligned drive.)


If this idea is true, then I guess everyone should try to keep one 
out-of-spec drive just for reading old disks that you don't want to 
reformat. You don't ever format or even write anything with that drive, 
it's just for reading and just for really old disks. Then for formatting 
and writing you use a properly aligned drive.


And, if this idea of the mylar shrinking is true, does that mean that 
even if you had one of the original special factory calibration 
reference discs, that probably means that disk is no longer a good 
reference. It would be shrunk out of spec too. We'd have to come up with 
a new reference.


--
bkw

Re: [M100] DVI

[George Rimakis]

Hi Jesse,

Is there any more information accompanying those mods that are pictured?

Best,
~George

> On Mar 16, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: Jesse Huyett 
> To: m...@bitchin100.com 
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:08 AM
> > Hello All,
> > Has anyone tried a Gotek/ HxC in the DVI?
>  
> A Gotek might be a challenge but FWIW 3.5" drives work quite well.
> 
> 
>  
> With a little futzing you could have both ;-)
> 

Re: [M100] DVI

[Mike Stein]

- Original Message - 
From: Jesse Huyett 
To: m...@bitchin100.com 
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:08 AM

> Hello All,
> Has anyone tried a Gotek/ HxC in the DVI?

A Gotek might be a challenge but FWIW 3.5" drives work quite well.




With a little futzing you could have both ;-)