ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Mark Alldritt]

Hi Folks,

Late Night Software is pleased to announce the release of its newest Mac OS
X scripting product: Affrus 1.0.

Affrus 1.0 is an integrated Perl editing and debugging environment for Mac
OS X.  It wraps Perl in a standard, familiar, and intuitive user interface.
Affrus is the perfect center for all your Perl development needs on Mac OS
X.  Whether you're just beginning to experiment with Perl and want an easy
way to get your feet wet, or you're a Perl expert wishing to understand and
hack into a vast body of existing code, Affrus is for you.

For more product information and to download the Affrus demo go to:

   http://www.latenightsw.com/affrus/index.html

Cheers
-Mark

-
Mark Alldritt Late Night Software Ltd.
Phone: 250-380-1725   333 Moss Street
FAX:   250-383-3204   Victoria, B.C.
WEB:   http://www.latenightsw.com/CANADA  V8V-4M9
AIM:   markalldritt

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Mark" == Mark Alldritt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Mark> Late Night Software is pleased to announce the release of its newest Mac OS
Mark> X scripting product: Affrus 1.0.

Anyone with admin powers able to pull this clown from the list.

Commercial adverts.  Seriously.  No place for them here.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Morbus Iff]

>> "Mark" == Mark Alldritt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:



>>Randal L. Schwartz writes:
>>Anyone with admin powers able to pull this clown from the list.
>>Commercial adverts.  Seriously.  No place for them here.
Seconded.

--
Morbus Iff ( i put the demon back in codemonkey )
Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/
Spidering Hacks: http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005776/disobeycom
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj]

This post was a joke, right?

Your "signature" looks like advertising to me, LOL!

			BPR

PS - I did find the post interesting and of potential use, btw,
albeit I would deplore crass commercialism.
On Mar 11, 2004, at 1:57 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

"Mark" == Mark Alldritt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Mark> Late Night Software is pleased to announce the release of its 
newest Mac OS
Mark> X scripting product: Affrus 1.0.

Anyone with admin powers able to pull this clown from the list.

Commercial adverts.  Seriously.  No place for them here.

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 
0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl 
training!

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Brian McNett]

On Thursday 11 March 2004 10:57, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

> Anyone with admin powers able to pull this clown from the list.
>
> Commercial adverts.  Seriously.  No place for them here.

Seconded.  Way too much like spam.  There are ways to properly plug your 
product on a discussion list.  This is *SO* not one of them.

Actually engaging in discussion, and CONTRIBUTING to the list works so much 
better.

--B

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Lola Lee]

At 10:57 AM -0800 3/11/04, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
Anyone with admin powers able to pull this clown from the list.

Commercial adverts.  Seriously.  No place for them here.


Looking at the main page of http://www.lists.perl.org, from where the 
list originates, I don't see any prohibition against commercial 
averts having to do with Perl, especially when it is an application 
to help create perl scripts.  Nor does there seem to be anything else 
in the page for the list other than "Discussion of Perl on macintosh 
OS X" in the Summary section.

--

Lola - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.lolajl.net | Blog at http://www.lolajl.net/blog/
I'm in Bowie, MD, USA, halfway between DC and Annapolis.

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[John Delacour]

At 10:57 am -0800 11/3/04, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

Anyone with admin powers able to pull this clown from the list.

Commercial adverts.  Seriously.  No place for them here.

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
I'm surprised at you, Randal !

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Bohdan" == Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Bohdan> This post was a joke, right?
Bohdan> Your "signature" looks like advertising to me, LOL!

By your "LOL", I'll presume you're a young'un, not familiar with
the ways and means of Internet Email Lists.

No commercial promotions.  That's spam.  It's unwanted.

But a concession for the 4-lines of a .sig block has always been
granted.  Hence, my contact info.

Now, if I repeatedly posted null messages just so that my .sig
was in everyone's faces, I would get pulled.

Yes, it's that simple.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Morbus Iff]

>Looking at the main page of http://www.lists.perl.org, from where the
>list originates, I don't see any prohibition against commercial
>averts having to do with Perl, especially when it is an application
>to help create perl scripts.  Nor does there seem to be anything else
>in the page for the list other than "Discussion of Perl on macintosh
>OS X" in the Summary section.
Shall we also include instructions on:

 * no flaming.
 * no swearing.
 * no top-quoting.
 * no HTML email.
 * learn to snip properly.
 * no discussions about Reply-To.
 * we're not building a template engine.
 * read the archives first.
 * use proper subject lines (albeit, he did).
 * use descriptive subject lines.
 * read "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way"
 * read "How to Report Bugs Effectively".
 * no long threads about administrivia (doh!)
 * etc., etc., etc.
Seriously, if you're joining a mailing list, there are just certain
things you should know not to do or, at least, to ask an admin first.
It would seem, theoretically, that a programmer would know this stuff
in the first place (as opposed to, say, a quilting mailing list).
Compiling a list of all the bad things merely gives added license
for the one nasty thing that we forgot about.
--
Morbus Iff ( i put the demon back in codemonkey )
Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/
Spidering Hacks: http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005776/disobeycom
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Lola" == Lola Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Lola> Looking at the main page of http://www.lists.perl.org, from where the
Lola> list originates, I don't see any prohibition against commercial averts
Lola> having to do with Perl, especially when it is an application to help
Lola> create perl scripts.

There's also no explicit prohibition against posting child pr0n, or
sending one message a minute with a null content.  But we trust people
will do commonsensical things.

Commercial adverts.  Not permitted here.  (Here being "the machines
owned and operated by the Perl Foundation and other volunteers".)

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

macosx@perl.org

[Andy Lester]

OK, we've now had >10x the volume of the original message squawking
about it.

Please, no "eternal vigilance or else we descend into the swamp" posts.

xoa

-- 
Andy Lester => [EMAIL PROTECTED] => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Jeff Lowrey]

At 01:57 PM 3/11/2004, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
> "Mark" == Mark Alldritt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Mark> Late Night Software is pleased to announce the release of its newest 
Mac OS
Mark> X scripting product: Affrus 1.0.

Commercial adverts.  Seriously.  No place for them here.
I don't see a big difference between this announcement and Sherm Pendley's 
recent announcement about a new version of CamelBones.

And I find the *discussion* of the "appropriateness "of the announcement 
more offensive than the announcement itself.

-Jeff Lowrey 

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj]

On Mar 11, 2004, at 2:15 PM, Jeff Lowrey wrote:

I don't see a big difference between this announcement and Sherm 
Pendley's recent announcement about a new version of CamelBones.

And I find the *discussion* of the "appropriateness "of the 
announcement more offensive than the announcement itself.
Agreed.

I looked at the product and there could be nice room for discussion 
about it - eg, the value of the IDE,
debugging facilities et cetera vis a vis other products.

It was an inoffensive post, rather than the original one engaging in 
assumptions and ad hominem
attacks.

'nuff said.

Let's discuss Perl IDE's on the Mac!

:-D

	BPR

PS - who was building non-Perl microcomputers in the 1970's

RE: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Deshazer, Earl (GEAE)]

Okay, so this was a blatant plug, and I do see the point about not creating
spam,
but I personally was not offended by this email, because I saw it as an
appropriate tool for the goals and objectives of subscribers to this forum.

It is arguably as useful a tool for many as Camelbones is (no slight
intended, Sherm : ).
Is it because someone profits from the plug that it was offensive?

I don't want to add to the flames, but once in a while a post about useful
Perl developers tools, developed for the Mac OS X, seems like a reasonable,
and arguably effective use for this forum.

That's my thinking anyway. :-)

Sincerely,
Will

PS I am in no way affiliated with Affrus ;-)


-Original Message-
From: Mark Alldritt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:41 PM
To: Mac OS X Perl
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger


Hi Folks,

Late Night Software is pleased to announce the release of its newest Mac OS
X scripting product: Affrus 1.0.

Affrus 1.0 is an integrated Perl editing and debugging environment for Mac
OS X.  It wraps Perl in a standard, familiar, and intuitive user interface.
Affrus is the perfect center for all your Perl development needs on Mac OS
X.  Whether you're just beginning to experiment with Perl and want an easy
way to get your feet wet, or you're a Perl expert wishing to understand and
hack into a vast body of existing code, Affrus is for you.

For more product information and to download the Affrus demo go to:

   http://www.latenightsw.com/affrus/index.html

Cheers
-Mark

-
Mark Alldritt Late Night Software Ltd.
Phone: 250-380-1725   333 Moss Street
FAX:   250-383-3204   Victoria, B.C.
WEB:   http://www.latenightsw.com/CANADA  V8V-4M9
AIM:   markalldritt

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[John Siracusa]

On 3/11/04 2:39 PM, Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj wrote:
> Let's discuss Perl IDE's on the Mac!

I thought the app looked neat and wouldn't have heard of it otherwise.  Too
bad, like most GUI Perl debuggers, it doesn't seem to support mod_perl
debugging...

-John

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Jason FB]

See the SMART thing to do would have been to get a friend of his to 
recommend the product to the list -- that way it comes across as a 
recommendation and/or referral rather than a advertisement.

As a small business owner myself, I have sympathy for how hard it is 
to find free places to advertise. But, having said that, I also think 
it's important to respect the rules of the lists that you join.

As for the ensuing discussion-- I for one think it is healthy. 
Clearly this is an issue that people care about and it is very 
eye-opening to see the numerous reactions. It also has left me with 
the feeling that Perl developers -- at least the ones on this list -- 
have the capacity to be callous and somewhat ruthless in their 
vengeance. (Barring those of you who did not send callous or ruthless 
emails to the list).

As someone who is relatively new to this list this experience has 
been very edifying. I would ask two theoretical questions:

1. How do we approach this situation with compassion for all of the 
parties involved?

2. How do we set limits to the collective use of the resources-- in 
this case, the list, maintainance, etc?

If this deteriorates into an ego bashing fest, which it seems like it 
has the capacity to-- I will remove myself from this list very 
quickly. However, I hope that this experience opens new doors to a 
deeper understanding of how we interact with eachother and how to use 
this shared resource.




On 3/11/04 2:39 PM, Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj wrote:
 Let's discuss Perl IDE's on the Mac!
I thought the app looked neat and wouldn't have heard of it otherwise.  Too
bad, like most GUI Perl debuggers, it doesn't seem to support mod_perl
debugging...
-John

Re:

[Chris Devers]

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Andy Lester wrote:

> Received: from boggle.pobox.com (boggle.pobox.com [208.58.1.193])
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> List-Post: 
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> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:26:50 -0600
> From: Andy Lester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: John Delacour <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: 
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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> Mime-Version: 1.0
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>   version=2.63
> Content-Length: 231
> 
> OK, we've now had >10x the volume of the original message squawking
> about it.
> 
> Please, no "eternal vigilance or else we descend into the swamp" posts.
> 
> xoa
> 
> -- 
> Andy Lester => [EMAIL PROTECTED] => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance
> 
> 








-- 
Chris Devers,
who is actually rather enjoying watching the list descend 
into silly-land so long as it doesn't go on beyond today.

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Chris Devers]

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Jason FB wrote:

> See the SMART thing to do would have been to get a friend of his to 
> recommend the product to the list -- that way it comes across as a 
> recommendation and/or referral rather than a advertisement.



Psst! Viral marketing doesn't work! Tell everyone you know!





And the *really* smart thing is not to jeopardy-post/top-post.

That's just *rude* :)



-- 
Chris Devers

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Joseph Alotta]

What is top-quoting?

Joe.

On Mar 11, 2004, at 1:21 PM, Morbus Iff wrote:

 * no top-quoting.

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Brian McNett]

On Thursday 11 March 2004 12:09, Jason FB wrote:

> As someone who is relatively new to this list this experience has
> been very edifying. I would ask two theoretical questions:
>
> 1. How do we approach this situation with compassion for all of the
> parties involved?
>
> 2. How do we set limits to the collective use of the resources-- in
> this case, the list, maintainance, etc?

As a ten-year veteran of the spam wars, I can add a bit of perspective here.

What we've witnessed today is, in microcosm, how spam got its genesis: 
Well-meaning people posting product releases for nominally on-topic 
software/hardware in fora where such postings, although not DIRECTLY against 
charter, could be easily imputed not to be welcome.  I'm sure Mark had no 
idea what a firestorm he'd unleash by what is nominally an on-topic post.

We now take for granted that products offered through spam are all some sort 
of fraud, but this was hardly always the case.  We also tend to forget that 
before spam became heavily automated, it was just individual posters like 
Mark, who did little real damage, other than brusing a few egos and stepping 
on toes.

The dividing line between someone making an innocent mistake of judgement, and 
maliciously spamming a forum to death is thinner than you think. It would 
have taken a minimum of effort to gather the addresses of every Mac or Perl 
related mailing list, subscribe to all of them, and then mass-post the 
self-same announcement to all of them.  Few of us on this list would have 
gotten more than one message.

As to approaching the situation with compassion, sorry, doesn't work. Either 
you feel that such messages are okay, and the list will soon be awash in 
them, or they are strictly verboten and violators will be dealt with.  What 
appears to be sane and accommodating middle-ground is actually a quagmire of 
noise and discussion which is where we are RIGHT NOW.

As individuals, and as a group, it behooves all of use to know and understand 
basic list ettiquette.  Perhaps the blanket presumption on the part of the 
Perl Foundation that we all KNOW such basics is wrong, and a primer is 
needed.

--B

Unwelcome product announcement

[Mark Alldritt]

Hi All,

My apologies for causing all this trouble and wasted bandwidth.

I wasn't aware of a prohibition of on-topic commercial content.  Won't
happen again.

-Mark

-
Mark Alldritt Late Night Software Ltd.
Phone: 250-380-1725   333 Moss Street
FAX:   250-383-3204   Victoria, B.C.
WEB:   http://www.latenightsw.com/CANADA  V8V-4M9
AIM:   markalldritt

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Sherm Pendley]

On Mar 11, 2004, at 2:15 PM, Jeff Lowrey wrote:

I don't see a big difference between this announcement and Sherm 
Pendley's recent announcement about a new version of CamelBones.
I think of it in terms of a user's group meeting. If a well-known 
regular shows up to the meeting and announces to one and all that he's 
launched a new project and/or product, it's generally well received. 
But if a stranger walks into his first meeting and starts handing out 
flyers, quite a few folks are going to be offended by it.

That, I think, is the key difference. It's not really a question of 
commercial vs. free. It's a question of a community member making an 
announcement among friends vs. strangers blasting us with anonymous 
drive-by advertising.

sherm--

Standalone Mono for OS X

[Nathan Torkington]

(not really Perl content, so I look forward to being reamed by Randal 
for polluting our bandwidth, tragifying the commons, and generally 
being the vanguard of a thousand dark years of oppressive alien rule)  
I believe you can get mono via Fink, but I've soured on Fink after 
several of those upgrade circles of hell where package A depends on 
version X of library L but package B depends on version Y and the two 
versions refuse to cohabitate and ...

Well, anyhow.  I built Mono on my lonesome (but not Gtk for Gtk#, 
sadly) and made a DMG of an installer package for it.  You can get it 
from:
  http://nathan.torkington.com/mac/monocore-0.30.2.dmg

I don't know whether you need Developer Tools installed for it to work. 
 I don't believe it links against any X11 libraries, but I wouldn't be 
prepared to swear on that with anything valuable at stake.

If, like me, you've always been curious about C# and Mono and wanted to 
play, here's your chance.  I tried the ByteFX MySQL library and it 
works a charm.

Cheers;

Nat

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Chris Nandor]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote:

> > "Mark" == Mark Alldritt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> Mark> Late Night Software is pleased to announce the release of its newest 
> Mac OS
> Mark> X scripting product: Affrus 1.0.
> 
> Anyone with admin powers able to pull this clown from the list.
> 
> Commercial adverts.  Seriously.  No place for them here.

I was the one who started this mailing list.  There is no admin of this 
specific list, last I checked.

I fully support this posting to this list.  It is a new product designed 
specifically for Perl on Mac OS X.  This mailing list is *the most 
appropriate place on the entire Internet* for an announcement of this 
software.  The fact that it is commercial is irrelevant to me; as someone 
else noted, it is no different than someone posting Mac::Glue or CamelBones 
announcements.

I know you, Randal, don't like it *just because* it is commerical.  This is 
not a rule, this is your preference, and it shall not be enforced as a rule.  
People often mention new O'Reilly books on perl.org mailing lists.  I might 
have some perl stuff in an upcoming Mac OS X Hacks book, and if I do, I will 
announce it here when it is published, and I don't care if you don't like it.

Sherm notes that Mark is new to this list, and that this is a factor.  
Granted; if I had posted my commercial product, I doubt anyone would have 
said anythiing.  But many people on this list have been working with him on 
this product.  I know there's no way of many of you to know that, but he's 
not some complete foreigner.

Mark, sorry about this; the abuse directed at you by Randal -- even if you 
did break an actual rule, which you did not -- was unwarranted.  Also, 
please send your submission to http://use.perl.org/submit.pl, where I have absolutely 
no
problem with commercial software postings.  :-)

-- 
Chris Nandor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://osdn.com/

Affrus

[Chris Nandor]

Affrus is an excellent product.  I hate using the Perl debugger on the 
command line, it gives me the willies.  Affrus makes it much easier to find 
problems in your perl code, especially when it goes through many modules and 
files.  I only wish I had more bugs in my code so I could use it more!  ;-)

-- 
Chris Nandor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://osdn.com/

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Chris" == Chris Nandor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Chris> I was the one who started this mailing list.  There is no admin
Chris> of this specific list, last I checked.

Chris> I fully support this posting to this list.

I believe that even if you requested that this list be started, you
are still not the admin and funder of the machine on which the list is
running (that's Ask, right?) or the owner of the domain name under
which this mailing list is operating (that'd be TPF).

I will stand by my statement that the posting is wrong until one or
both of those entities have declared contrary ground rules, and
continue to object to such postings until being told otherwise by
someone with authority.

Without such a stand, we enter a slippery slope.  It's the same reason
I permit *no* commercial postings to comp.lang.perl.announce.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: Affrus PLUS Perl/TK

[Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj]

On Mar 11, 2004, at 17:21, Chris Nandor wrote:

Affrus is an excellent product.  I hate using the Perl debugger on the
command line, it gives me the willies.  Affrus makes it much easier to 
find
problems in your perl code, especially when it goes through many 
modules and
files.  I only wish I had more bugs in my code so I could use it more! 
 ;-)
Great!

This is good stuff to know.   I'm a Unix command line Perl coder but 
wouldn't mind
checking out IDE's and debuggers as this!

Thanks!

BPR

PS - any Perl/TK users out there?  Do we have an FAQ for this yet?
	I use TK with perl on Solaris alot, but haven't yet turned my attention
	to running this under OS X.   Installation instructions/pitfalls might 
be
	a nice thread, if not rehashed already!  Thanks!

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Chris Nandor]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote:

> I will stand by my statement that the posting is wrong until one or
> both of those entities have declared contrary ground rules

So until they state a rule that has never existed doesn't exist, you'll 
stand by your statement that it exists, when in fact, it does not.  That's 
your prerogative.

> continue to object to such postings until being told otherwise by
> someone with authority.

Wh!  MOMMY!

-- 
Chris Nandor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://osdn.com/

Re: Unwelcome product announcement

[Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj]

Oh, please DON'T do that!

I'd love to hear about new releases!

And - already we had a good quote from somehow stating that
your product doesn't support mod_perl (hey, next release maybe?).
It'd be great to hear from people who are using the product - pro's and
cons and how to make things better.
How other IDE's stack up.
Spam away then!

LOL!

BPR

PS - methinx spam would be incessant, i.e., if you posted this every 
week
	or took every opportunity in your posts to plug this product, for 
example.
	AND - your signature is most professional btw.  Thanks!

On Mar 11, 2004, at 15:50, Mark Alldritt wrote:

Hi All,

My apologies for causing all this trouble and wasted bandwidth.

I wasn't aware of a prohibition of on-topic commercial content.  Won't
happen again.
-Mark

-
Mark Alldritt Late Night Software Ltd.
Phone: 250-380-1725   333 Moss Street
FAX:   250-383-3204   Victoria, B.C.
WEB:   http://www.latenightsw.com/CANADA  V8V-4M9
AIM:   markalldritt

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Stewart Leicester]

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote:

 > Anyone with admin powers able to pull this clown from the list.

 > Commercial adverts.  Seriously.  No place for them here.

I fully support this posting to this list.  It is a new product designed
specifically for Perl on Mac OS X.  This mailing list is *the most
appropriate place on the entire Internet* for an announcement of this
software.  The fact that it is commercial is irrelevant to me; as someone
else noted, it is no different than someone posting Mac::Glue or CamelBones
announcements.
Chris Nandor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://pudge.net/
Common sense prevails.

Thank you Chris.

Stewart

--
Stewart Leicester | JenSoft Technologies, LLC
"Ad Astra Per Aspera" | 

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Morbus Iff]

>Wh!  MOMMY!

Can you imagine Randall, all sweaty, popping out Pudge, all bloody?
That'd be a sight to see. I'd donate some money to TPF for a
Photoshop'd rendition of that.


--
Morbus Iff ( i put the demon back in codemonkey )
Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/
Spidering Hacks: http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005776/disobeycom
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus

Re: Unwelcome product announcement

[Morbus Iff]

>> -
>> Mark Alldritt Late Night Software Ltd.
>> Phone: 250-380-1725   333 Moss Street
>> FAX:   250-383-3204   Victoria, B.C.
>> WEB:   http://www.latenightsw.com/CANADA  V8V-4M9
>> AIM:   markalldritt
>
>AND - your signature is most professional btw.  Thanks!
I disagree. It's not four lines, nor "-- " delimited .

--
Morbus Iff ( i put the demon back in codemonkey )
Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/
Spidering Hacks: http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005776/disobeycom
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Bill Birkett]

Chris Nandor wrote:

I fully support this posting to this list.  It is a new product designed
specifically for Perl on Mac OS X.  This mailing list is *the most
appropriate place on the entire Internet* for an announcement of this
software.  The fact that it is commercial is irrelevant to me; as someone
else noted, it is no different than someone posting Mac::Glue or CamelBones
announcements.
I agree completely with Chris, and was glad to learn of this new product.

-Bill

Perl/TK (Was: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj]

On Mar 11, 2004, at 17:46, Morbus Iff wrote:

>Wh!  MOMMY!

Can you imagine Randall, all sweaty, popping out Pudge, all bloody?
That'd be a sight to see. I'd donate some money to TPF for a
Photoshop'd rendition of that.


Awww - let's leave poor Randall alone, chuckle!
This is too funny!
Now, about Perl/TK (and I hope I'm not rehashing something on this
list which I may have missed some time prior) - any body running
on 10.3?
Is it Aqualike?  or X11?

Any quick way to install for use?  A web-site or page on this?

OH - does that Affrus product support the TK extensions?

Thanks!

			BPR





--
Morbus Iff ( i put the demon back in codemonkey )
Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/
Spidering Hacks: 
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005776/disobeycom
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Wiggins d Anconia]

> > "Chris" == Chris Nandor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> Chris> I was the one who started this mailing list.  There is no admin
> Chris> of this specific list, last I checked.
> 
> Chris> I fully support this posting to this list.
> 

> 
> Without such a stand, we enter a slippery slope.  It's the same reason
> I permit *no* commercial postings to comp.lang.perl.announce.
> 

This makes an interesting problem, if he can't post an announcement to a
general discussion group *AND* he can't post an announcement to
'announce' just because it is commercial... 

I think it difficult to call single announcements a slippery slope.  So
is there a perl-commercial-product list, or
perl-commercial-product-announce list?  What is the traffic on the
'announce' list as it stands now?  A list has a bigger chance of dieing
if there is no traffic than one that gets a few on-topic commercial
postings.

Though I will agree I didn't like the "shameless plug tone", the "hey
guys check this out I think it is cool tone" usually goes over better in
the geek crowd...

http://danconia.org 

Re: Unwelcome product announcement

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Bohdan" == Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Bohdan> I'd love to hear about new releases!

Good, then join a "new product announcement" list, or start one
yourself.  This is a *technical discussion* list, operated on a
machine administrated by Ask (if I recall), on a domain owned by the
non-profit charitable TPF.  You don't get to use someone else's
bullhorn to announce your product.

*That's* common sense.

I came here for technical discussions of open-source software related
to Perl on OSX.  Not to be the target of adverts.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Rick Measham]

Mark, thanks for this announcement. There is no other place on the net 
that would have let me know about this tool. I'll go and check it out 
now.

Randal said:
I will stand by my statement that the posting is wrong until one or
both of those entities have declared contrary ground rules, and
continue to object to such postings until being told otherwise by
someone with authority.
Randal: They have already declared such a post to be allowable. Where 
did they do that? When Ask set up spam filters on the machine in the 
TPF owned domain:

On 12 Mar 2004, at 4:40 AM, Mark Alldritt wrote:
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on 
x1.develooper.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=8.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham
	version=2.63
So, if they didn't want this, surely it would have scored at least in 
the positives! Get over it Randall, this is the best place to post it.

Cheers!
Rick Measham


Senior Developer
PrintSupply - Print Procurement & Supply Management
18 Greenaway Street VIC 3105
Tel: (03) 9850 3255
Fx: (03) 9850 3277
http://www.printsupply.com.au/

Re: Affrus PLUS Perl/TK

[Jerry LeVan]

Last version  of Tk I tried built out of the box.

Jerry

PS - any Perl/TK users out there?  Do we have an FAQ for this yet?
	I use TK with perl on Solaris alot, but haven't yet turned my 
attention
	to running this under OS X.   Installation instructions/pitfalls 
might be
	a nice thread, if not rehashed already!  Thanks!

Re: Perl/TK (Was: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Bohdan" == Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Bohdan> Now, about Perl/TK (and I hope I'm not rehashing something on this
Bohdan> list which I may have missed some time prior) - any body running
Bohdan> on 10.3?

Yes, working just fine.

Bohdan> Is it Aqualike?  or X11?

X11.

Bohdan> Any quick way to install for use?  A web-site or page on this?

It installs according to the "INSTALL.darwin" in the distro.  You
*cannot* use the Panther Perl with it.  You have to build your own.

My configure line (which works fine) is:

./Configure -des -Duseshrplib -Dusedevel -Uversiononly -Dprefix=/opt/perl/snap 
-Dlocincpth=/sw/include -Dloclibpth=/sw/lib [EMAIL PROTECTED]

But beware, I'm installing into /opt/perl/snap (for snapshots).

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Wiggins" == Wiggins D Anconia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Wiggins> This makes an interesting problem, if he can't post an
Wiggins> announcement to a general discussion group *AND* he can't
Wiggins> post an announcement to 'announce' just because it is
Wiggins> commercial...

He can set up a web page, make sure google reads it, and send it to
the various OSX search engines.  Just like any other commercial
product.

That there is not a *commercial* announce list for Perl OSX is not my
problem.  Nor would I subscribe to such a list.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: Unwelcome product announcement

[Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj]

On Mar 11, 2004, at 17:58, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

"Bohdan" == Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Bohdan> I'd love to hear about new releases!

Good, then join a "new product announcement" list, or start one
yourself.  This is a *technical discussion* list, operated on a
machine administrated by Ask (if I recall), on a domain owned by the
non-profit charitable TPF.  You don't get to use someone else's
bullhorn to announce your product.
*That's* common sense.
Actually, here's even more "common sense".  There's an amazing key
on your keyboard right in front of you.
It's called "DELETE".

Try using it - and you won't see it!
Chuckle!
I came here for technical discussions of open-source software related
to Perl on OSX.  Not to be the target of adverts.
A posting such as that will lead to discussions about the merits and 
technical
benefits/detractions of said products.

Relax - enjoy - we'll all here to learn, no matter how much/little 
experience we have.

:-)

	BPR



--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 
0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
Are you sure you're not teasing us with comedy???
;-)


See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl 
training!

Re: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Rick" == Rick Measham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Rick> Randal: They have already declared such a post to be allowable. Where
Rick> did they do that? When Ask set up spam filters on the machine in the
Rick> TPF owned domain:

Rick> On 12 Mar 2004, at 4:40 AM, Mark Alldritt wrote:
>> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on
>> x1.develooper.com
>> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=8.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham
>> version=2.63

Rick> So, if they didn't want this, surely it would have scored at least in
Rick> the positives!

If you honestly believe that an automated tool can replace common
sense, I have nothing more to say to you.  Approval by SpamAssassin is
not a promise that the message is on topic, only that it doesn't look
enough like existing spam.

Rick>  Get over it Randall, this is the best place to post it.

Get over it, Rick.  No, it's not.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: Affrus PLUS Perl/TK

[Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj]

On Mar 11, 2004, at 18:05, Jerry LeVan wrote:

Last version  of Tk I tried built out of the box.
Do you mean you downloaded this from CPAN or somewhere?

Thanks!

			BPR

PS - Mark - Affrus support TK extensions?  Could I actually step 
through,
	line by line, and actually see my graphic widgets manifest themselves 
one
	by one?



Jerry

PS - any Perl/TK users out there?  Do we have an FAQ for this yet?
	I use TK with perl on Solaris alot, but haven't yet turned my 
attention
	to running this under OS X.   Installation instructions/pitfalls 
might be
	a nice thread, if not rehashed already!  Thanks!

Re: Perl/TK (Was: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Jerry LeVan]

Works fine on my stock Panther Perl...Tk-804.025_beta13

Jerry

Bohdan> Any quick way to install for use?  A web-site or page on this?

It installs according to the "INSTALL.darwin" in the distro.  You
*cannot* use the Panther Perl with it.  You have to build your own.
My configure line (which works fine) is:

./Configure -des -Duseshrplib -Dusedevel -Uversiononly 
-Dprefix=/opt/perl/snap -Dlocincpth=/sw/include -Dloclibpth=/sw/lib 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

But beware, I'm installing into /opt/perl/snap (for snapshots).

Re: Affrus PLUS Perl/TK

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Bohdan" == Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> Last version  of Tk I tried built out of the box.

Bohdan> Do you mean you downloaded this from CPAN or somewhere?

Yes: perl -MCPAN -e 'install "Tk"'

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: Affrus PLUS Perl/TK

[Jerry LeVan]

Yes :)

Jerry

On Mar 11, 2004, at 6:09 PM, Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj wrote:

On Mar 11, 2004, at 18:05, Jerry LeVan wrote:

Last version  of Tk I tried built out of the box.
Do you mean you downloaded this from CPAN or somewhere?

Thanks!

			BPR

PS - Mark - Affrus support TK extensions?  Could I actually step 
through,
	line by line, and actually see my graphic widgets manifest themselves 
one
	by one?



Jerry

PS - any Perl/TK users out there?  Do we have an FAQ for this yet?
	I use TK with perl on Solaris alot, but haven't yet turned my 
attention
	to running this under OS X.   Installation instructions/pitfalls 
might be
	a nice thread, if not rehashed already!  Thanks!

Re: Perl/TK (Was: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj]

On Mar 11, 2004, at 18:06, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

"Bohdan" == Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Bohdan> Now, about Perl/TK (and I hope I'm not rehashing something on 
this
Bohdan> list which I may have missed some time prior) - any body 
running
Bohdan> on 10.3?

Yes, working just fine.

Bohdan> Is it Aqualike?  or X11?

X11.
Bummer.  I wonder what it might take for Aqua.  I'd rather have this 
for my
clients and projects.  H...


Bohdan> Any quick way to install for use?  A web-site or page on this?

It installs according to the "INSTALL.darwin" in the distro.  You
*cannot* use the Panther Perl with it.  You have to build your own.
My configure line (which works fine) is:

./Configure -des -Duseshrplib -Dusedevel -Uversiononly 
-Dprefix=/opt/perl/snap -Dlocincpth=/sw/include -Dloclibpth=/sw/lib 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

But beware, I'm installing into /opt/perl/snap (for snapshots).
Thanks!  Good info.

BPR



--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 
0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl 
training!

Re: Unwelcome product announcement

[Jonathan King]

On 11 Mar 2004, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

> I came here for technical discussions of open-source software related
> to Perl on OSX.  Not to be the target of adverts.

I came here for technical discussions related to Perl on OSX.  Not 
to be the target of people targeting advertisers.  And, frankly, not 
ususally to be the target of advertisements since so very few would 
be likely to apply.  Reading (and, yes, deleting) the initial 
announcement took me a few seconds.  Staring in wonder at the thread 
that followed...well, more than a few seconds.

So I'm going to suggest that the bests solution is that everybody
just blame ME, call *ME* bad names, and get on with their lives.  
Like a true sociopath, I'll deny I did anything wrong, but I'll
spray paint that message all over Columbia, MO rather than all over
this list and its archives.

jking

Re: Perl/TK (Was: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj]

On Mar 11, 2004, at 18:15, Jerry LeVan wrote:

Works fine on my stock Panther Perl...Tk-804.025_beta13
So - you downloaded this from CPAN and just used the Darwin
install then?
No kludges or anything?

BPR



Jerry

Bohdan> Any quick way to install for use?  A web-site or page on this?

It installs according to the "INSTALL.darwin" in the distro.  You
*cannot* use the Panther Perl with it.  You have to build your own.
My configure line (which works fine) is:

./Configure -des -Duseshrplib -Dusedevel -Uversiononly 
-Dprefix=/opt/perl/snap -Dlocincpth=/sw/include -Dloclibpth=/sw/lib 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

But beware, I'm installing into /opt/perl/snap (for snapshots).

Re: Perl/TK (Was: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger

[Jerry LeVan]

From the Google comp.lang.perl.tk group
> Steve Lidie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> On Feb 28, 2004, at 12:49 PM, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
>>
>>> Pause <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
 The uploaded file

Tk-804.025_beta15.tar.gz

>>
>> Results for Mac OS X Panther 10.3.2, IRIX 6.5.20m and AIX 5.2.0.0 are
>> close to 100% thumbs up. Panther compiled, loaded and tested
>> perfectly.
>> Both AIX and IRIX had one problem with Xlib_f.h while compiling the
>> new
>> tkImgGIF.c.
>
> I see what happened. Xlib_f.h got included but Xlib.h didn't.
>
OK, all works fine now.
On Mar 11, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj wrote:
On Mar 11, 2004, at 18:15, Jerry LeVan wrote:

Works fine on my stock Panther Perl...Tk-804.025_beta13
So - you downloaded this from CPAN and just used the Darwin
install then?
No kludges or anything?

BPR



Jerry

Bohdan> Any quick way to install for use?  A web-site or page on 
this?

It installs according to the "INSTALL.darwin" in the distro.  You
*cannot* use the Panther Perl with it.  You have to build your own.
My configure line (which works fine) is:

./Configure -des -Duseshrplib -Dusedevel -Uversiononly 
-Dprefix=/opt/perl/snap -Dlocincpth=/sw/include -Dloclibpth=/sw/lib 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

But beware, I'm installing into /opt/perl/snap (for snapshots).

Re: Unwelcome product announcement

[Morbus Iff]

>So I'm going to suggest that the bests solution is that everybody
>just blame ME, call *ME* bad names, and get on with their lives.
>Like a true sociopath, I'll deny I did anything wrong, but I'll
>spray paint that message all over Columbia, MO rather than all over
>this list and its archives.
>
>jking

You'll go blind with that attitude.

-- 
Morbus Iff ( for safety's sake, don't humiliate me )
Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779
Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus

Perl under OSX, what version of Unix to use

[jtownsen]

I have several Perl scripts that I run on Win XP. I'd like to port them to 
my OS X box. From what I've read on the web, I can run Unix Perl from the 
OS X console.

--what version of Unix Perl (Linux vs Solaris, for example) should I use?
--any pitfalls I should be aware of when moving from Win to OS X/Unix?
--any related documentation you can recommend would be appreciated
Thanks

Re: Perl under OSX, what version of Unix to use

[Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj]

On Mar 11, 2004, at 18:39, jtownsen wrote:

I have several Perl scripts that I run on Win XP. I'd like to port 
them to my OS X box. From what I've read on the web, I can run Unix 
Perl from the OS X console.
You mean "terminal"...  (sorry to be pedantic!)...
What version are you running now?
--what version of Unix Perl (Linux vs Solaris, for example) should I 
use?
I'm still using 5 - not necessarily the latest.

Here:

% perl -v

This is perl, v5.8.1-RC3 built for darwin-thread-multi-2level
(with 1 registered patch, see perl -V for more detail)
Copyright 1987-2003, Larry Wall


--any pitfalls I should be aware of when moving from Win to OS X/Unix?
--any related documentation you can recommend would be appreciated
Can't help re windoze to Mac, sorry!

			Cheers,

	BPR


Thanks

Re: Perl under OSX, what version of Unix to use

[Chris Nandor]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jtownsen) wrote:

> I have several Perl scripts that I run on Win XP. I'd like to port them to 
> my OS X box. From what I've read on the web, I can run Unix Perl from the 
> OS X console.
> 
> --what version of Unix Perl (Linux vs Solaris, for example) should I use?

There is no "Unix Perl (Linux vs Solaris)".  They both use the same perl, 
from the same source.  If you mean precompiled binary versions, then no, you 
would not run Linux or Solaris binaries on Mac OS X, you would run Mac OS X 
binaries on Mac OS X!

Chances are, if you don't really know what you're doing, you'll just want to 
use the perl that already comes installed on Mac OS X.  For Mac OS X 10.3, 
that means perl 5.8.1.  For earlier versions, it would be perl 5.6.0.  But 
perl is already there on the system, you should be all set.

If you need to build modules etc., you should also install the Developer 
Tools, that come with Mac OS X (in Mac OS X 10.3 it is called the XCode 
Tools).  If you did not get Developer Tools/XCode Tools (either on a 
separate CD or as an installer in /Applications/), then head on over to
http://connect.apple.com/ and get a free ADC account, and download it.


> --any pitfalls I should be aware of when moving from Win to OS X/Unix?
> --any related documentation you can recommend would be appreciated

Read the perlport manpage, it should get you started on anything you need to 
know, and give you an idea of what to do on anything else that may arise.  
After reading through it and getting a general understanding, please feel 
free to ask any Mac OS X-perl-specific questions here.

-- 
Chris Nandor  [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://osdn.com/

Re: Perl under OSX, what version of Unix to use

[Sherm Pendley]

On Mar 11, 2004, at 6:39 PM, jtownsen wrote:

--what version of Unix Perl (Linux vs Solaris, for example) should I 
use?
That's sort of an odd question - one can't expect to run Linux or 
Solaris binaries on Mac OS X. The literal answer, then, would be "the 
Mac OS X version." That's not a very useful answer, though, and I don't 
think it's what you were looking for.

In a broader sense, the answer to your question is that it's generally 
easiest to simply use the Perl that's included out of the box. Or, if 
you want to upgrade to the latest and greatest, just compile the 
standard generic UNIX version. (As opposed to a more specialized 
platform-specific binary package such as ActiveState's Perl for 
Windows, or MacPerl for classic MacOS.)

--any pitfalls I should be aware of when moving from Win to OS X/Unix?
There are probably quite a few, but here's some I can think of off the 
top of my head:

Any code that makes use of the various Windows::* modules will 
naturally have to be ported.

Be sure that your scripts have UNIX line endings. Windows or Mac line 
endings won't work.

File paths are UNIX-like, using '/' as the path separator - not '\'.

Scripts need to be made executable, using either the "chmod" command or 
Finder.

The standard CPAN shell, rather than ActiveState's PPM, is used to 
install modules. (See 'perldoc perlmodinstall')

--any related documentation you can recommend would be appreciated
There's very little Mac OS X specific documentation to be had, 
primarily because all of the generic UNIX-oriented docs apply. For the 
most part, wherever you find docs that vary significantly from their 
UNIX counterparts, they're usually referring to MacPerl for older 
versions of Mac OS.

Searchable archives for this list are found here: 


sherm--

Re: mod_perl (Was: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger)

[Charlie Garrison]

Good afternoon,

On 11/3/04 at 2:54 PM -0500, John Siracusa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>On 3/11/04 2:39 PM, Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj wrote:
>> Let's discuss Perl IDE's on the Mac!
>
>I thought the app looked neat and wouldn't have heard of it otherwise.  Too
>bad, like most GUI Perl debuggers, it doesn't seem to support mod_perl
>debugging...

I have had a look at the internal script that Affrus uses to talk to the Perl
debugger, and I believe mod_perl support should be possible with a bit of
effort on Mark's part.

I have mentioned it to him and hopefully a future version will support
mod_perl. But even without direct mod_perl support, I still find Affrus to be
an excellent program. If I have a particular problem that I can reproduce in a
simple script, debugging it in Affrus is *so* much faster than any other
method I have found. It has already saved me many hours.


Charlie

PS. I was very happy to see Mark's post on this list. I wasn't aware that Mark
was not part of this small community, but he has certainly been a part of the
larger Mac programming community for a long time. And there are many of us who
have been very grateful for the (yes, commercial) tools he has been offering
for many years.

-- 
   Charlie Garrison  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   PO Box 141, Windsor, NSW 2756, Australia 

Sponsor me in the Leukaemia Foundation's World's Greatest Shave for a
Cure. Find out more about the challenge at .
See why it's a good idea at .

Re: mod_perl (Was: ANNOUNCE: Affrus 1.0 - a Perl Debugger)

[John Siracusa]

On 3/11/04 11:22 PM, Charlie Garrison wrote:
> On 11/3/04 at 2:54 PM -0500, John Siracusa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 3/11/04 2:39 PM, Bohdan Peter Rekshynskyj wrote:
>>> Let's discuss Perl IDE's on the Mac!
>> 
>> I thought the app looked neat and wouldn't have heard of it otherwise.  Too
>> bad, like most GUI Perl debuggers, it doesn't seem to support mod_perl
>> debugging...
> 
> I have had a look at the internal script that Affrus uses to talk to the Perl
> debugger, and I believe mod_perl support should be possible with a bit of
> effort on Mark's part.

If they add really good mod_perl support, they'll have my money (he says
without knowing what the price is, heh :)

> I have mentioned it to him and hopefully a future version will support
> mod_perl. But even without direct mod_perl support, I still find Affrus to be
> an excellent program. If I have a particular problem that I can reproduce in a
> simple script, debugging it in Affrus is *so* much faster than any other
> method I have found. It has already saved me many hours.

I was going to make the "lack of bugs in sub-10,000-line programs" joke, but
Pudge beat me to it ;)  Anyway, debugging a simple script isn't so bad in
the standard perl debugger, but debugging a full-blown web application made
up of (literally) hundreds of perl modules...then good ol' perl -d is a wee
bit clunky.

> PS. I was very happy to see Mark's post on this list. I wasn't aware that Mark
> was not part of this small community, but he has certainly been a part of the
> larger Mac programming community for a long time. And there are many of us who
> have been very grateful for the (yes, commercial) tools he has been offering
> for many years.

It's a love-fest!  Free copies of Affrus  for the whole list! :)

-John