Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

My brother has worked from home for a couple of decades. He has a dedicated 
room in the house that is for his office and nothing else. He didn’t even let 
the kids go in it when they were younger.

He was the one who enlightened me about the home office deduction.

-D

> On Dec 5, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I know someone who had a home office years ago. The IRS sent someone to 
> inspect it. They found one of his toddlers toys on the floor.
> 
> Rejected.
> 
> 
> Rick
> 
> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Sent: December 5, 2020 9:19 AM
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Cc: d...@penoff.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are
> 
> As Mitch alludes to, the IRS requirements for office space at home are very, 
> very strict and difficult to comply with. You pretty much have to have a 
> dedicated space you do absolutely nothing else in the way of personal stuff 
> with or it doesn’t qualify, as I recall.
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

I know someone who had a home office years ago. The IRS sent someone to inspect 
it. They found one of his toddlers toys on the floor.

Rejected.


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: December 5, 2020 9:19 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: d...@penoff.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

As Mitch alludes to, the IRS requirements for office space at home are very, 
very strict and difficult to comply with. You pretty much have to have a 
dedicated space you do absolutely nothing else in the way of personal stuff 
with or it doesn’t qualify, as I recall.


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Project into the future a few years and deduce the long term business
effect of the Covid induced "work from home edict".
Will the urban population suddenly or eventually realize the do not need to
live in clusters in the city environment, then migrate to small towns and
rural areas, while still producing work product and being paid for it?

Or, will companies simply hire  and outsource workers from foreign
countries at a much cheaper labor rate, cut their costs, and continue
business via "remote work"?

Thoughts on how this will trend?  Labor market has been gutted for more
than two decades now with near slave labor in third world countries. Will
"brain power labor" be next to die from outsourcing?
Or, has it already, and we are too numbed and dumbed down to realize it?

When the rich American workers no longer work, who buys the product from
cheap third world labor?

Is this a "business cycle" and is there a profit opportunity laying
somewhere to be found?

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 10:01 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> That and when they’ve griped about work paying for their Internet access,
> the counter is, “So you wouldn’t have it if you didn’t need to work at
> home?”
>
> This is nickel and dime stuff by people who just want to gripe, in my
> opinion. When someone sits down with them and crunches the numbers, as a
> couple of managers have had to do, suddenly working from home looks far
> more attractive.
>
> -D
>
> > On Dec 5, 2020, at 11:30 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
> >
> >> We’ve heard some griping from employees about this, but that’s
> >> countered with, “So how much money have you saved this year not having
> >> to commute, buy lunch or work clothing?”
> >
> > I suppose that is what the argument would be. Your commute is now
> > virtual, like everything else. Commuting expenses have never been
> > deductible either, though when I worked as a consultant we were allowed
> > to turn in travel expenses that were "over and above" our normal home
> > office commute, when we were at a client site.
> >
> > Allan
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

That and when they’ve griped about work paying for their Internet access, the 
counter is, “So you wouldn’t have it if you didn’t need to work at home?”

This is nickel and dime stuff by people who just want to gripe, in my opinion. 
When someone sits down with them and crunches the numbers, as a couple of 
managers have had to do, suddenly working from home looks far more attractive.

-D

> On Dec 5, 2020, at 11:30 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> We’ve heard some griping from employees about this, but that’s
>> countered with, “So how much money have you saved this year not having
>> to commute, buy lunch or work clothing?”
> 
> I suppose that is what the argument would be. Your commute is now
> virtual, like everything else. Commuting expenses have never been
> deductible either, though when I worked as a consultant we were allowed
> to turn in travel expenses that were "over and above" our normal home
> office commute, when we were at a client site.
> 
> Allan
> 
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:

> We’ve heard some griping from employees about this, but that’s
> countered with, “So how much money have you saved this year not having
> to commute, buy lunch or work clothing?”

I suppose that is what the argument would be. Your commute is now
virtual, like everything else. Commuting expenses have never been
deductible either, though when I worked as a consultant we were allowed
to turn in travel expenses that were "over and above" our normal home
office commute, when we were at a client site.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> It’s a big win as far as I’m concerned. I’ve saved a boatload of money just 
> on commuting costs.

We are getting insurance premium rebates from USAA.  Driving is down, as are 
claims.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

As Mitch alludes to, the IRS requirements for office space at home are very, 
very strict and difficult to comply with. You pretty much have to have a 
dedicated space you do absolutely nothing else in the way of personal stuff 
with or it doesn’t qualify, as I recall.

We’ve heard some griping from employees about this, but that’s countered with, 
“So how much money have you saved this year not having to commute, buy lunch or 
work clothing?”

Yeah. That shuts it down pretty quick.

It’s a big win as far as I’m concerned. I’ve saved a boatload of money just on 
commuting costs.

-D

> On Dec 5, 2020, at 8:13 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> On 2020-12-04 23:22, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote:
>> I'm wondering how this affects 2020 and future income taxes. In prior
>> years most people didn't have any consequential "home office" dedicated
>> space or supply expenses. This year, many more people will. I'm using my
>> personal living space, electricity, and internet connection to do work
>> for my employer every single workday since the end of March.
> 
> And even with dedicated space, there's no such things as form 2106 for 
> employee work expenses, except for certain performing artists, public 
> officials (you like how legislators exempted themselves, don't you?) etc. The 
> rest of us don't get any miscellaneous itemized deductions (the category work 
> expenses fell under) except for gambling losses.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> It's been credibly alleged (I have no direct knowledge) that Indian coders 
> working remotely produce horrible code.

At my last job the product our swallowed-up company had produced, and 
maintained,
was sent to India.  We 'trained' them on it.  Job retention there was so poor 
that we
had to keep 'training' them, and I never saw them actually fix reported 
problems.
We fixed several of the worse ones.  Eventually they closed our office, leaving 
it
in the oh-so-incapable hands in India.

In the 80's one of our vendors had contracted out some work to India, as a test.
It did not go well.  All that survived was a small emacs-inspired text editor 
that had
an "i" in the name, standing for "Indian".  Now that I think of it, the last 
surviving copy
of that I had put into the product that was sent back to India.  It's gone full 
circle!

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2020-12-04 23:22, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote:

I'm wondering how this affects 2020 and future income taxes. In prior
years most people didn't have any consequential "home office" dedicated
space or supply expenses. This year, many more people will. I'm using 
my

personal living space, electricity, and internet connection to do work
for my employer every single workday since the end of March.


And even with dedicated space, there's no such things as form 2106 for 
employee work expenses, except for certain performing artists, public 
officials (you like how legislators exempted themselves, don't you?) 
etc. The rest of us don't get any miscellaneous itemized deductions (the 
category work expenses fell under) except for gambling losses.


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I'm wondering how this affects 2020 and future income taxes. In prior
years most people didn't have any consequential "home office" dedicated
space or supply expenses. This year, many more people will. I'm using my
personal living space, electricity, and internet connection to do work
for my employer every single workday since the end of March.

Allan

Clay Monroe via Mercedes  writes:

> For virtual work to function well will require a mass change to home 
> architecture to include work cells for kids and office drones.  In normal 
> times social intercourse could be sustained in bars and dining spaces.  The 
> current plague is swiftly ridding the landscape of any business lunch or 
> social interaction locations.  
>
> clay 
>
> Who has Whuhoo flu hair style and a dentist who can no longer provide service 
> under lock up regulations
>
>
>
>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 4:09 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes > > wrote:
>> 
>> I've been thinking that the current situation of almost all virtual work
>> (for those that can do so) is a losing proposition in the long term.  I'm
>> not sure when the impact will be felt, but eventually the work-place
>> relationships will shrivel up into superficial and shallow relationships,
>> and the trust and social cohesion needed to keep an organization vital and
>> energized and innovating will slip.  Companies / workplaces that maintain
>> in-person environments will gain the advantage.  Perhaps some companies
>> will develop business models that allow them to remain competitive, but I
>> fear that those models will be brutal for the 'workers' and heavily benefit
>> the company and its leadership.  Man is a social being, and there will be a
>> price to pay for reducing workplace social contact.
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

Exact description of the Korean College exams that are being seated this week.  
Lots of complaints that the physical accommodations are horrid and impacts to 
future success are being damaged by Plexiglas panels, masking, cyber stalking 
recording and locked down computers.  

Not sure, sounds terrible to me.  But then having everything about your future 
life depend upon some entrance exam is pretty bad to my mind

Clay


inter urinas et faeces nascimur

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:48 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> For the online exams, you have to install and use a "lockdown browser"
> which takes over your computer and prevents you from accessing any other
> applications or unapproved websites.
> 
> Your camera and microphone is used to verify that nobody else is in the
> room helping you, and supposedly also to catch if you are using a
> calculator, a separate computer, looking at notes or books if not
> permitted, etc.
> 
> You have to submit a 360 camera view of the room to show what is on your
> desk and that there are no other screens or computers.
> 
> All very Orwellian. I get that cheating is a thing, but a determined
> cheater is going to cheat. At some point it's a cost of doing business
> and trying to prevent it puts too much burden on the majority of people
> who are (mostly) honest.
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
> Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> I’ve heard that our certification authorities are doing stuff like this so 
>> they can still have people testing for certs. I’m curious as to how they do 
>> it…
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The next thing is using the camera and screenshots to verify that you
>>> are sitting at the computer and actually working on work stuff. Similar
>>> stuff is being done for students taking online exams, to try to detect
>>> cheating.
>>> 
>>> Yeah I would not work under those conditions. Also since I use an
>>> obscure OS at home, none of that would work on my computer.
>>> 
>>> Allan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
>>> 
 Agreed.
 
 Just as there are app developers out there who have come up with apps
 that “twitch” your mouse every few minutes, too.
 
 -D
>>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

Trousers

For me it was home is where the trousers are not worn.  Work required I look 
human and behave human.

---
clay

I turned my computer upside down and shook it, but the bookmark for what I'm 
looking for didn't fall out.




> On Dec 4, 2020, at 8:29 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said,
> missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that working
> from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out and there
> was always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 8 hours.
> 
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are
>> younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older
>> than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the
>> social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss
>> that aspect of work.
>> 
>> The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe
>> as a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
>> 
>> I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That
>> is, when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically.
>> That’s not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big
>> negative for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical
>> separation between the two environments.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who
>> were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  Instead
>> of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go home and
>> work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on computer stuff,
>> whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the afternoon and if I
>> needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got more done at home
>> without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues in England or Europe
>> was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta hybrid scheme. Working
>> always from home got to be old, even though I got more done and it was
>> relaxing and flexible, I missed the social interactions, random drop-in
>> discussions, and serendipitous ideas that popped up being around other
>> people and seeing them in the cafeteria or hallways.  It was just easier in
>> a lot of ways to get a job done being around others, at least for some
>> things.
>>> 
>>> IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a
>> lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot
>> desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the
>> people were always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot of
>> difference.  I spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, and
>> off-site partners and our other offices so it was fine with me though I did
>> (until I moved away) have an office at our main building in Cambridge with
>> a killer view of Boston and the river.  Plus I really liked a lot of the
>> people I worked with so that was nice to be around friends.
>>> 
>>> But yeah, the social interaction is a key factor not just in work but in
>> lots of other things, I find that people are getting cranky and ill-behaved
>> not having that.
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> 
>>> On 12/4/20 9:26 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
 And in a nutshell that’s what this company found. While the initial
>> approach was to let roughly 50% of the employees work remotely, about a
>> third of those ended up wanting to return t the office if I recall
>> correctly. Many of them were younger people whose social lives involved
>> relationships with their (work) peers.
 
 It was pretty interesting, I thought.
 
 -D
 
> On Dec 4, 2020, at 9:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> A wise company will do an intelligent mix.   Those who do better
>> working
> from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office
>> environment,
> work in an office.
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> 
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>> --
>>> --FT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list 

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

Pink collar jobs in the legal field are all but gone.  There used to be massive 
word processing, secretarial pools, paralegals and a host of desk occupants.  
Now the shyster has to do his own WP, support tasks and self help/care.  If the 
firm is large enough, it has a central processing unit 
(HR/Tech/records/travel/etc.) in the main office, and a skeleton crew at that.  
Most of it has been outsourced to India or other 24/7 site.  Far less expensive 
and no need for benefits or interaction.

The Tech/FB fiasco is that US citizens are not being considered because the 
H1-B sorts are much cheaper.  Maybe US talent is inadequate (based on some of 
the young workers, not surprising).  Still, US employers should use US talent 
first, not undercut and hire slave wage workers.  

Clay


inter urinas et faeces nascimur

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 7:26 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Max says:
> 
>> I've been thinking that the current situation of almost all virtual work 
>> (for those that can do so) is a losing proposition in the long term.
> 
> I would agree, but not for the reasons you state.
> If one can work for a company from home for $100k a year, that "work from 
> home" position can be done from India, Pakistan, or China for MUCH less. 
> Currently, there is a legal issue between FB and the DoJ over H-1b preference 
> over US citizen workers. "Work from home" (India), and the legal issue 
> disappears.
> 
> Blue collar jobs disappeared overseas in the eighties and nineties. White 
> collar jobs are next.
> 
> Rick

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

For virtual work to function well will require a mass change to home 
architecture to include work cells for kids and office drones.  In normal times 
social intercourse could be sustained in bars and dining spaces.  The current 
plague is swiftly ridding the landscape of any business lunch or social 
interaction locations.  

clay 

Who has Whuhoo flu hair style and a dentist who can no longer provide service 
under lock up regulations



> On Dec 4, 2020, at 4:09 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes  > wrote:
> 
> I've been thinking that the current situation of almost all virtual work
> (for those that can do so) is a losing proposition in the long term.  I'm
> not sure when the impact will be felt, but eventually the work-place
> relationships will shrivel up into superficial and shallow relationships,
> and the trust and social cohesion needed to keep an organization vital and
> energized and innovating will slip.  Companies / workplaces that maintain
> in-person environments will gain the advantage.  Perhaps some companies
> will develop business models that allow them to remain competitive, but I
> fear that those models will be brutal for the 'workers' and heavily benefit
> the company and its leadership.  Man is a social being, and there will be a
> price to pay for reducing workplace social contact.
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC



Clay


inter urinas et faeces nascimur

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 You'd have to get rid of the CEO, CTO and all the other do nothing corporate 
types that eat up the vast majority of the budget while providing very little 
in return...
-Curt

On Friday, December 4, 2020, 3:57:17 PM EST, mi...@mitchellhaley.com 
 wrote:  
 
 On 2020-12-04 14:53, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> I've read about folks who have workstations that track active time, so
> if you don't interact every 5 seconds or so it assumes you've left.
> Pretty good sign it's time to get a new job...

How hard is it to track $$$ spent vs work received, and give raises to 
the producers while nudging the useless ones towards the door?
  
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 We outsourced some stuff to China about 12 years ago. After 1 year we stopped 
that, the code that came back was completely unusable.
Then we outsourced to the Ukraine and Russia invaded...
The problem with outsourcing is not the quality of the code its the oversight 
required to get quality code. Years ago I managed a call center in Canada. The 
biggest problem I had was that the call center was paid per call and then paid 
on an inverse scale for the duration of the call, meaning they got paid more 
for shorter calls.After a couple months I had customers telling me that wait 
times were high, we had a real time dashboard that told me calls were being 
answered in under a minute. Well they were but the call center then put you in 
a 10 minute queue hoping that you would hang up and call back so they could get 
paid again.
It made for some interesting conference calls. "I know you're cheating us, if 
you've been cheating us this week you were probably cheating us last week too. 
Here's what you're going to do to make it up lest I tell my bosses and we 
decide to sue your ass." What followed was a year of them cheating and me 
figuring out how to catch them. It was one of the more fun jobs I've ever had.
So the call center worked out well but only because we had an employee (me) 
dedicated to making sure we were getting what we paid for.

-Curt

On Friday, December 4, 2020, 3:47:15 PM EST, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 On 2020-12-04 14:20, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote:
> If it does prove to be that virtual workers are acceptible for many
> companies or jobs, the 6-figure-income techies in California can say
> goodbye to their jobs. There are smart motivated people in eastern
> Europe, Asia, and elsewhere who will do those jobs for a fraction of 
> the
> wages. Google, Amazon, etc. will not hesitate. The need for the workers
> to be physically present was the only bottleneck. They were already
> lobbying hard for increased work visa quotas so they could hire more
> Indian programmers (who they also pay less).

It's been credibly alleged (I have no direct knowledge) that Indian 
coders working remotely produce horrible code.

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Mitch Haley via Mercedes  writes:

> It's been credibly alleged (I have no direct knowledge) that Indian
> coders working remotely produce horrible code.

I've directly experienced it but it was about 10 years ago. No idea what
things are like today.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2020-12-04 14:53, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

I've read about folks who have workstations that track active time, so
if you don't interact every 5 seconds or so it assumes you've left.
Pretty good sign it's time to get a new job...


How hard is it to track $$$ spent vs work received, and give raises to 
the producers while nudging the useless ones towards the door?


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2020-12-04 15:28, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I’ve heard that our certification authorities are doing stuff like
this so they can still have people testing for certs. I’m curious as
to how they do it…


I did a 16 hour webinar for CPE credit last month.
4x an hour a prompt would appear on the screen, you had to push a button 
to open the dialog, then answer a question, then submit your answer 
within 30 seconds. One time the dialog disappeared as I was moving the 
mouse towards the submit button.
They said you didn't need to answer every time to get credit, but they 
didn't say how many misses were allowed.


Mitch, who needs to check his CPE account right about now...

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

For the online exams, you have to install and use a "lockdown browser"
which takes over your computer and prevents you from accessing any other
applications or unapproved websites.

Your camera and microphone is used to verify that nobody else is in the
room helping you, and supposedly also to catch if you are using a
calculator, a separate computer, looking at notes or books if not
permitted, etc.

You have to submit a 360 camera view of the room to show what is on your
desk and that there are no other screens or computers.

All very Orwellian. I get that cheating is a thing, but a determined
cheater is going to cheat. At some point it's a cost of doing business
and trying to prevent it puts too much burden on the majority of people
who are (mostly) honest.

Allan


Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:

> I’ve heard that our certification authorities are doing stuff like this so 
> they can still have people testing for certs. I’m curious as to how they do 
> it…
>
> -D
>
>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> The next thing is using the camera and screenshots to verify that you
>> are sitting at the computer and actually working on work stuff. Similar
>> stuff is being done for students taking online exams, to try to detect
>> cheating.
>> 
>> Yeah I would not work under those conditions. Also since I use an
>> obscure OS at home, none of that would work on my computer.
>> 
>> Allan
>> 
>> 
>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
>> 
>>> Agreed.
>>> 
>>> Just as there are app developers out there who have come up with apps
>>> that “twitch” your mouse every few minutes, too.
>>> 
>>> -D
>> 

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2020-12-04 14:20, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote:

If it does prove to be that virtual workers are acceptible for many
companies or jobs, the 6-figure-income techies in California can say
goodbye to their jobs. There are smart motivated people in eastern
Europe, Asia, and elsewhere who will do those jobs for a fraction of 
the

wages. Google, Amazon, etc. will not hesitate. The need for the workers
to be physically present was the only bottleneck. They were already
lobbying hard for increased work visa quotas so they could hire more
Indian programmers (who they also pay less).


It's been credibly alleged (I have no direct knowledge) that Indian 
coders working remotely produce horrible code.


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Rick Knoble via Mercedes  writes:

>>Also since I use an obscure OS at home,
>
> What OS?

OpenBSD.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’ve heard that our certification authorities are doing stuff like this so they 
can still have people testing for certs. I’m curious as to how they do it…

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The next thing is using the camera and screenshots to verify that you
> are sitting at the computer and actually working on work stuff. Similar
> stuff is being done for students taking online exams, to try to detect
> cheating.
> 
> Yeah I would not work under those conditions. Also since I use an
> obscure OS at home, none of that would work on my computer.
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
> Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> Agreed.
>> 
>> Just as there are app developers out there who have come up with apps
>> that “twitch” your mouse every few minutes, too.
>> 
>> -D
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

>Also since I use an obscure OS at home,

What OS?


Rick
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

The next thing is using the camera and screenshots to verify that you
are sitting at the computer and actually working on work stuff. Similar
stuff is being done for students taking online exams, to try to detect
cheating.

Yeah I would not work under those conditions. Also since I use an
obscure OS at home, none of that would work on my computer.

Allan


Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:

> Agreed.
>
> Just as there are app developers out there who have come up with apps
> that “twitch” your mouse every few minutes, too.
>
> -D

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Agreed.

Just as there are app developers out there who have come up with apps that 
“twitch” your mouse every few minutes, too.

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> I've read about folks who have workstations that track active time, so if you 
> don't interact every 5 seconds or so it assumes you've left. Pretty good sign 
> it's time to get a new job...
> 
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 2:28 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> Our HR department was reaching out to find some sort of application or 
> logging method to track employee’s time via Active Directory or VPN access.
> 
> We pretty much told them “No” and explained that logging can’t be a means of 
> time racking, as it’s easy to spoof and doesn’t always relate directly to 
> specific operations or actions by a user.
> 
> For example, our Cisco VPN client regularly logs on and off in the background 
> as a normal part of it’s operation. So that’s a service function, not a user 
> one. Does it mean the user wasn’t working?
> 
> Slippery slope, for sure.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Dec 4, 2020, at 2:23 PM, Curt Raymond  > > wrote:
> > 
> > I keep a definite separation of church and state, 8 hours after I log in I 
> > log out and go do something else.
> > Or sometimes, like hunting season, I take a couple hours off to hunt and 
> > log back in after dark.
> > I think the hip and trendy term is "work/life balance".
> > 
> > Curt
> > 
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> >  >  
> > >
> > On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 2:05 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > This is a common finding in the research on remote workers who work from 
> > home. They typically put in more hours because there’s no disconnect 
> > between home and work. There can also be concerns that there is a 
> > perception that if they’re not producing they’re not working. This is also 
> > something that’s come up in research as well.
> > 
> > We’ve focused on task or project completion, not watching clocks, and that 
> > seems to work well. As my boss says, he doesn’t care where or how much you 
> > work as long as things get done and when expected.
> > 
> > -D
> > 
> > > On Dec 4, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  > >   > > >> wrote:
> > > 
> > > I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said, 
> > > missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that 
> > > working from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out 
> > > and there was always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 
> > > 8 hours.  
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> > > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > > > 
> > >  
> > >  > > I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are 
> > > younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older 
> > > than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the 
> > > social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely 
> > > miss that aspect of work.
> > > 
> > > The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe 
> > > as a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
> > > 
> > > I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That 
> > > is, when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically. 
> > > That’s not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the 
> > > big negative for me when it comes to working from home. I like the 
> > > physical separation between the two environments.
> > > 
> > > -D
> > > 
> > > > On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > > > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > > > > 
> > > >  
> > > >  > > > 
> > > > I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people 
> > > > who were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was. 

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I've read about folks who have workstations that track active time, so if you 
don't interact every 5 seconds or so it assumes you've left. Pretty good sign 
it's time to get a new job...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 2:28 PM, Dan Penoff via 
Mercedes wrote:   Our HR department was reaching out to 
find some sort of application or logging method to track employee’s time via 
Active Directory or VPN access.

We pretty much told them “No” and explained that logging can’t be a means of 
time racking, as it’s easy to spoof and doesn’t always relate directly to 
specific operations or actions by a user.

For example, our Cisco VPN client regularly logs on and off in the background 
as a normal part of it’s operation. So that’s a service function, not a user 
one. Does it mean the user wasn’t working?

Slippery slope, for sure.

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 2:23 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> I keep a definite separation of church and state, 8 hours after I log in I 
> log out and go do something else.
> Or sometimes, like hunting season, I take a couple hours off to hunt and log 
> back in after dark.
> I think the hip and trendy term is "work/life balance".
> 
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 2:05 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> This is a common finding in the research on remote workers who work from 
> home. They typically put in more hours because there’s no disconnect between 
> home and work. There can also be concerns that there is a perception that if 
> they’re not producing they’re not working. This is also something that’s come 
> up in research as well.
> 
> We’ve focused on task or project completion, not watching clocks, and that 
> seems to work well. As my boss says, he doesn’t care where or how much you 
> work as long as things get done and when expected.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Dec 4, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  > > wrote:
> > 
> > I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said, 
> > missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that working 
> > from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out and there 
> > was always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 8 hours.  
> > 
> > On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > >> wrote:
> > I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are 
> > younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older 
> > than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the 
> > social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss 
> > that aspect of work.
> > 
> > The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe 
> > as a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
> > 
> > I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That 
> > is, when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically. 
> > That’s not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big 
> > negative for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical 
> > separation between the two environments.
> > 
> > -D
> > 
> > > On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > > >> wrote:
> > > 
> > > I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who 
> > > were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  
> > > Instead of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go 
> > > home and work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on 
> > > computer stuff, whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the 
> > > afternoon and if I needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got 
> > > more done at home without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues 
> > > in England or Europe was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta 
> > > hybrid scheme. Working always from home got to be old, even though I got 
> > > more done and it was relaxing and flexible, I missed the social 
> > > interactions, random drop-in discussions, and serendipitous ideas that 
> > > popped up being around other people and seeing them in the cafeteria or 
> > > hallways.  It was just easier in a lot of ways to get a job done being 
> > > around others, at least for some things.
> > > 
> > > IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a 
> > > lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot 
> > > desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most 

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I will say this I have worked remotely the last 15 years. At my previous job we 
had company meetings and people got to know each other there pretty well. Aside 
from that we got to know each other well on our weekly calls, just calling each 
other for help etc. We were not millennials though and probably know how to 
interact with people be it in person or remote. At my new job which I have been 
at a year, some folks I have been out on site with have developed into 
friendships somewhat. Most of these are older folks my age. We have a ton of 
millennials that work for us and no relationship has been built with them at 
all. One guy I did a couple of installs with is about my age and he said when 
he is paired up with somebody he will ask them 3 non work related questions. If 
by the 3rd question they have not asked him some sort of not work related 
question, he is done trying with them. We are talking about things such as 
favorite movie, hobbies, stuff like that. He says almost all of them will 
answer but never ask him anything in return to keep the conversation going. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 1:21 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I feel the same way. You said it better than I did in a reply that I
> started and then trashed.
> 
> Also it's one thing for established workers to continue their jobs
> remotely, but it seems to me very difficult to bring on new hires and
> get them integrated into the "team" if everything is remote and you
> don't get to actually meet anybody or work with them during an
> introductory or training period. I guess you can try to do that
> virtually also but I don't think it would be optimal.
> 
> If it does prove to be that virtual workers are acceptible for many
> companies or jobs, the 6-figure-income techies in California can say
> goodbye to their jobs. There are smart motivated people in eastern
> Europe, Asia, and elsewhere who will do those jobs for a fraction of the
> wages. Google, Amazon, etc. will not hesitate. The need for the workers
> to be physically present was the only bottleneck. They were already
> lobbying hard for increased work visa quotas so they could hire more
> Indian programmers (who they also pay less).
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
> Meade Dillon via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> I've been thinking that the current situation of almost all virtual
>> work (for those that can do so) is a losing proposition in the long
>> term.  I'm not sure when the impact will be felt, but eventually the
>> work-place relationships will shrivel up into superficial and shallow
>> relationships, and the trust and social cohesion needed to keep an
>> organization vital and energized and innovating will slip.  Companies
>> / workplaces that maintain in-person environments will gain the
>> advantage.  Perhaps some companies will develop business models that
>> allow them to remain competitive, but I fear that those models will be
>> brutal for the 'workers' and heavily benefit the company and its
>> leadership.  Man is a social being, and there will be a price to pay
>> for reducing workplace social contact.
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC
>> 
>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:48 AM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If we still have the Internet and virtual processes used during
>>> COVID, do we really need markets and exchanges in big cities?  Why
>>> can't all that be virtual from wherever?  With online banking,
>>> investing, etc. I think we are close to that now.  There is, however,
>>> a serious drawback in reduced social contact:
>>> https://biggeekdad.com/2016/12/the-millennial-question/
>>> 
>>> The traditional retirement investment was to have kids who can take
>>> care of you in old age.  If we, as a nation, continue to have too few
>>> children it won't matter how much gold or dollars the old geezers
>>> have; there will be no care-givers to hire, at least not American
>>> ones.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From:  Allan Streib via Mercedes
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are
>>> 
>>> I get the sentiment but we need both unless we revert to pure
>>> subsistence living. Farmers absolutely need commodities markets in
>>> Chicago and New York, for example. Anyone with any substantial assets
>>> needs insurance. Anyone who wants income to retire on needs
>>> investments.
>>> 
>>> ...
> 
> -- 
> Allan Streib
> Indiana University
> Luddy School of Informatics, Computing, and Engineering
> Digital S

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Our HR department was reaching out to find some sort of application or logging 
method to track employee’s time via Active Directory or VPN access.

We pretty much told them “No” and explained that logging can’t be a means of 
time racking, as it’s easy to spoof and doesn’t always relate directly to 
specific operations or actions by a user.

For example, our Cisco VPN client regularly logs on and off in the background 
as a normal part of it’s operation. So that’s a service function, not a user 
one. Does it mean the user wasn’t working?

Slippery slope, for sure.

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 2:23 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> I keep a definite separation of church and state, 8 hours after I log in I 
> log out and go do something else.
> Or sometimes, like hunting season, I take a couple hours off to hunt and log 
> back in after dark.
> I think the hip and trendy term is "work/life balance".
> 
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 2:05 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> This is a common finding in the research on remote workers who work from 
> home. They typically put in more hours because there’s no disconnect between 
> home and work. There can also be concerns that there is a perception that if 
> they’re not producing they’re not working. This is also something that’s come 
> up in research as well.
> 
> We’ve focused on task or project completion, not watching clocks, and that 
> seems to work well. As my boss says, he doesn’t care where or how much you 
> work as long as things get done and when expected.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Dec 4, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  > > wrote:
> > 
> > I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said, 
> > missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that working 
> > from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out and there 
> > was always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 8 hours.  
> > 
> > On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > >> wrote:
> > I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are 
> > younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older 
> > than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the 
> > social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss 
> > that aspect of work.
> > 
> > The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe 
> > as a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
> > 
> > I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That 
> > is, when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically. 
> > That’s not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big 
> > negative for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical 
> > separation between the two environments.
> > 
> > -D
> > 
> > > On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > > >> wrote:
> > > 
> > > I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who 
> > > were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  
> > > Instead of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go 
> > > home and work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on 
> > > computer stuff, whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the 
> > > afternoon and if I needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got 
> > > more done at home without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues 
> > > in England or Europe was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta 
> > > hybrid scheme. Working always from home got to be old, even though I got 
> > > more done and it was relaxing and flexible, I missed the social 
> > > interactions, random drop-in discussions, and serendipitous ideas that 
> > > popped up being around other people and seeing them in the cafeteria or 
> > > hallways.  It was just easier in a lot of ways to get a job done being 
> > > around others, at least for some things.
> > > 
> > > IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a 
> > > lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot 
> > > desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the 
> > > people were always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot of 
> > > difference.  I spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, and 
> > > off-site partners and our other offices so it was fine with me though I 
> > > did (until I moved away) have an office at our main 

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I keep a definite separation of church and state, 8 hours after I log in I log 
out and go do something else.Or sometimes, like hunting season, I take a couple 
hours off to hunt and log back in after dark.I think the hip and trendy term is 
"work/life balance".
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 2:05 PM, Dan Penoff via 
Mercedes wrote:   This is a common finding in the 
research on remote workers who work from home. They typically put in more hours 
because there’s no disconnect between home and work. There can also be concerns 
that there is a perception that if they’re not producing they’re not working. 
This is also something that’s come up in research as well.

We’ve focused on task or project completion, not watching clocks, and that 
seems to work well. As my boss says, he doesn’t care where or how much you work 
as long as things get done and when expected.

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said, 
> missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that working 
> from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out and there was 
> always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 8 hours.  
> 
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are 
> younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older 
> than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the 
> social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss 
> that aspect of work.
> 
> The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe as 
> a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
> 
> I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That is, 
> when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically. That’s 
> not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big negative 
> for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical separation 
> between the two environments.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who 
> > were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  Instead 
> > of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go home and 
> > work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on computer stuff, 
> > whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the afternoon and if I 
> > needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got more done at home 
> > without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues in England or Europe 
> > was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta hybrid scheme. Working 
> > always from home got to be old, even though I got more done and it was 
> > relaxing and flexible, I missed the social interactions, random drop-in 
> > discussions, and serendipitous ideas that popped up being around other 
> > people and seeing them in the cafeteria or hallways.  It was just easier in 
> > a lot of ways to get a job done being around others, at least for some 
> > things.
> > 
> > IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a 
> > lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot 
> > desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the 
> > people were always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot of 
> > difference.  I spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, and 
> > off-site partners and our other offices so it was fine with me though I did 
> > (until I moved away) have an office at our main building in Cambridge with 
> > a killer view of Boston and the river.  Plus I really liked a lot of the 
> > people I worked with so that was nice to be around friends.
> > 
> > But yeah, the social interaction is a key factor not just in work but in 
> > lots of other things, I find that people are getting cranky and ill-behaved 
> > not having that.
> > 
> > --FT
> > 
> > On 12/4/20 9:26 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> >> And in a nutshell that’s what this company found. While the initial 
> >> approach was to let roughly 50% of the employees work remotely, about a 
> >> third of those ended up wanting to return t the office if I recall 
> >> correctly. Many of them were younger people whose social lives involved 
> >> relationships with their (work) peers.
> >> 
> >> It was pretty interesting, I thought.
> >> 
> >> -D
> >> 
> >>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 9:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes 
> >>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> A wise company will do an intelligent mix.  Those who do better working
> >>> from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office 

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I feel the same way. You said it better than I did in a reply that I
started and then trashed.

Also it's one thing for established workers to continue their jobs
remotely, but it seems to me very difficult to bring on new hires and
get them integrated into the "team" if everything is remote and you
don't get to actually meet anybody or work with them during an
introductory or training period. I guess you can try to do that
virtually also but I don't think it would be optimal.

If it does prove to be that virtual workers are acceptible for many
companies or jobs, the 6-figure-income techies in California can say
goodbye to their jobs. There are smart motivated people in eastern
Europe, Asia, and elsewhere who will do those jobs for a fraction of the
wages. Google, Amazon, etc. will not hesitate. The need for the workers
to be physically present was the only bottleneck. They were already
lobbying hard for increased work visa quotas so they could hire more
Indian programmers (who they also pay less).

Allan


Meade Dillon via Mercedes  writes:

> I've been thinking that the current situation of almost all virtual
> work (for those that can do so) is a losing proposition in the long
> term.  I'm not sure when the impact will be felt, but eventually the
> work-place relationships will shrivel up into superficial and shallow
> relationships, and the trust and social cohesion needed to keep an
> organization vital and energized and innovating will slip.  Companies
> / workplaces that maintain in-person environments will gain the
> advantage.  Perhaps some companies will develop business models that
> allow them to remain competitive, but I fear that those models will be
> brutal for the 'workers' and heavily benefit the company and its
> leadership.  Man is a social being, and there will be a price to pay
> for reducing workplace social contact.
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:48 AM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> If we still have the Internet and virtual processes used during
>> COVID, do we really need markets and exchanges in big cities?  Why
>> can't all that be virtual from wherever?  With online banking,
>> investing, etc. I think we are close to that now.  There is, however,
>> a serious drawback in reduced social contact:
>> https://biggeekdad.com/2016/12/the-millennial-question/
>>
>> The traditional retirement investment was to have kids who can take
>> care of you in old age.  If we, as a nation, continue to have too few
>> children it won't matter how much gold or dollars the old geezers
>> have; there will be no care-givers to hire, at least not American
>> ones.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From:  Allan Streib via Mercedes
>>
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are
>>
>> I get the sentiment but we need both unless we revert to pure
>> subsistence living. Farmers absolutely need commodities markets in
>> Chicago and New York, for example. Anyone with any substantial assets
>> needs insurance. Anyone who wants income to retire on needs
>> investments.
>>
>> ...

-- 
Allan Streib
Indiana University
Luddy School of Informatics, Computing, and Engineering
Digital Science Center | Intelligent Systems Engineering | FutureSystems

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

This is a common finding in the research on remote workers who work from home. 
They typically put in more hours because there’s no disconnect between home and 
work. There can also be concerns that there is a perception that if they’re not 
producing they’re not working. This is also something that’s come up in 
research as well.

We’ve focused on task or project completion, not watching clocks, and that 
seems to work well. As my boss says, he doesn’t care where or how much you work 
as long as things get done and when expected.

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said, 
> missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that working 
> from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out and there was 
> always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 8 hours.  
> 
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are 
> younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older 
> than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the 
> social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss 
> that aspect of work.
> 
> The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe as 
> a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
> 
> I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That is, 
> when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically. That’s 
> not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big negative 
> for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical separation 
> between the two environments.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who 
> > were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  Instead 
> > of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go home and 
> > work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on computer stuff, 
> > whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the afternoon and if I 
> > needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got more done at home 
> > without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues in England or Europe 
> > was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta hybrid scheme. Working 
> > always from home got to be old, even though I got more done and it was 
> > relaxing and flexible, I missed the social interactions, random drop-in 
> > discussions, and serendipitous ideas that popped up being around other 
> > people and seeing them in the cafeteria or hallways.  It was just easier in 
> > a lot of ways to get a job done being around others, at least for some 
> > things.
> > 
> > IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a 
> > lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot 
> > desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the 
> > people were always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot of 
> > difference.  I spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, and 
> > off-site partners and our other offices so it was fine with me though I did 
> > (until I moved away) have an office at our main building in Cambridge with 
> > a killer view of Boston and the river.  Plus I really liked a lot of the 
> > people I worked with so that was nice to be around friends.
> > 
> > But yeah, the social interaction is a key factor not just in work but in 
> > lots of other things, I find that people are getting cranky and ill-behaved 
> > not having that.
> > 
> > --FT
> > 
> > On 12/4/20 9:26 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> >> And in a nutshell that’s what this company found. While the initial 
> >> approach was to let roughly 50% of the employees work remotely, about a 
> >> third of those ended up wanting to return t the office if I recall 
> >> correctly. Many of them were younger people whose social lives involved 
> >> relationships with their (work) peers.
> >> 
> >> It was pretty interesting, I thought.
> >> 
> >> -D
> >> 
> >>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 9:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes 
> >>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> A wise company will do an intelligent mix.   Those who do better working
> >>> from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office environment,
> >>> work in an office.
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com 
> >>> 
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> 

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 04/12/2020 11:29 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer . . .


Did I miss something? I don't recall you saying you had retired.

Congratulations! You made it out alive.

RB


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said,
missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that working
from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out and there
was always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 8 hours.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are
> younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older
> than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the
> social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss
> that aspect of work.
>
> The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe
> as a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
>
> I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That
> is, when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically.
> That’s not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big
> negative for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical
> separation between the two environments.
>
> -D
>
> > On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who
> were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  Instead
> of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go home and
> work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on computer stuff,
> whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the afternoon and if I
> needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got more done at home
> without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues in England or Europe
> was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta hybrid scheme. Working
> always from home got to be old, even though I got more done and it was
> relaxing and flexible, I missed the social interactions, random drop-in
> discussions, and serendipitous ideas that popped up being around other
> people and seeing them in the cafeteria or hallways.  It was just easier in
> a lot of ways to get a job done being around others, at least for some
> things.
> >
> > IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a
> lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot
> desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the
> people were always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot of
> difference.  I spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, and
> off-site partners and our other offices so it was fine with me though I did
> (until I moved away) have an office at our main building in Cambridge with
> a killer view of Boston and the river.  Plus I really liked a lot of the
> people I worked with so that was nice to be around friends.
> >
> > But yeah, the social interaction is a key factor not just in work but in
> lots of other things, I find that people are getting cranky and ill-behaved
> not having that.
> >
> > --FT
> >
> > On 12/4/20 9:26 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> >> And in a nutshell that’s what this company found. While the initial
> approach was to let roughly 50% of the employees work remotely, about a
> third of those ended up wanting to return t the office if I recall
> correctly. Many of them were younger people whose social lives involved
> relationships with their (work) peers.
> >>
> >> It was pretty interesting, I thought.
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 9:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> A wise company will do an intelligent mix.   Those who do better
> working
> >>> from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office
> environment,
> >>> work in an office.
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> > --
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> 

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are 
younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older than 
me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the social 
interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss that 
aspect of work.

The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe as a 
“separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.

I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That is, 
when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically. That’s 
not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big negative 
for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical separation 
between the two environments.

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who were 
> not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  Instead of 
> fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go home and work for 
> a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on computer stuff, whatever.  
> Then I would head into the office for the afternoon and if I needed to meet 
> with anyone I could do that.  I got more done at home without the 
> distractions, and dealing with colleagues in England or Europe was fine from 
> home.  It was a really nice sorta hybrid scheme. Working always from home got 
> to be old, even though I got more done and it was relaxing and flexible, I 
> missed the social interactions, random drop-in discussions, and serendipitous 
> ideas that popped up being around other people and seeing them in the 
> cafeteria or hallways.  It was just easier in a lot of ways to get a job done 
> being around others, at least for some things.
> 
> IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a lot 
> of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot desking if 
> you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the people were 
> always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot of difference.  I 
> spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, and off-site partners and 
> our other offices so it was fine with me though I did (until I moved away) 
> have an office at our main building in Cambridge with a killer view of Boston 
> and the river.  Plus I really liked a lot of the people I worked with so that 
> was nice to be around friends.
> 
> But yeah, the social interaction is a key factor not just in work but in lots 
> of other things, I find that people are getting cranky and ill-behaved not 
> having that.
> 
> --FT
> 
> On 12/4/20 9:26 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> And in a nutshell that’s what this company found. While the initial approach 
>> was to let roughly 50% of the employees work remotely, about a third of 
>> those ended up wanting to return t the office if I recall correctly. Many of 
>> them were younger people whose social lives involved relationships with 
>> their (work) peers.
>> 
>> It was pretty interesting, I thought.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 9:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A wise company will do an intelligent mix.   Those who do better working
>>> from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office environment,
>>> work in an office.
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> -- 
> --FT
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who 
were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  
Instead of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go 
home and work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on 
computer stuff, whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the 
afternoon and if I needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got 
more done at home without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues 
in England or Europe was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta 
hybrid scheme. Working always from home got to be old, even though I got 
more done and it was relaxing and flexible, I missed the social 
interactions, random drop-in discussions, and serendipitous ideas that 
popped up being around other people and seeing them in the cafeteria or 
hallways.  It was just easier in a lot of ways to get a job done being 
around others, at least for some things.


IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a 
lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot 
desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the 
people were always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot 
of difference.  I spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, 
and off-site partners and our other offices so it was fine with me 
though I did (until I moved away) have an office at our main building in 
Cambridge with a killer view of Boston and the river.  Plus I really 
liked a lot of the people I worked with so that was nice to be around 
friends.


But yeah, the social interaction is a key factor not just in work but in 
lots of other things, I find that people are getting cranky and 
ill-behaved not having that.


--FT

On 12/4/20 9:26 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

And in a nutshell that’s what this company found. While the initial approach 
was to let roughly 50% of the employees work remotely, about a third of those 
ended up wanting to return t the office if I recall correctly. Many of them 
were younger people whose social lives involved relationships with their (work) 
peers.

It was pretty interesting, I thought.

-D


On Dec 4, 2020, at 9:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes 
 wrote:

A wise company will do an intelligent mix.   Those who do better working
from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office environment,
work in an office.
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--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Max says:

>I've been thinking that the current situation of almost all virtual work (for 
>those that can do so) is a losing proposition in the long term.

I would agree, but not for the reasons you state.
If one can work for a company from home for $100k a year, that "work from home" 
position can be done from India, Pakistan, or China for MUCH less. Currently, 
there is a legal issue between FB and the DoJ over H-1b preference over US 
citizen workers. "Work from home" (India), and the legal issue disappears.

Blue collar jobs disappeared overseas in the eighties and nineties. White 
collar jobs are next.

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

And in a nutshell that’s what this company found. While the initial approach 
was to let roughly 50% of the employees work remotely, about a third of those 
ended up wanting to return t the office if I recall correctly. Many of them 
were younger people whose social lives involved relationships with their (work) 
peers.

It was pretty interesting, I thought.

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 9:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> A wise company will do an intelligent mix.   Those who do better working
> from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office environment,
> work in an office.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

A wise company will do an intelligent mix.   Those who do better working
from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office environment,
work in an office.
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Along those lines, there’s a “Hidden Brain” episode that addresses a study that 
a company in China did in the last year on remote workers. It’s pretty 
interesting, especially the social aspects of what they discovered.

You can fast-forward in to about 11:00 or 12:00 when the segment on this starts:

https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/when-you-start-to-miss-tony-from-accounting/ 
<https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/when-you-start-to-miss-tony-from-accounting/>

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 8:09 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I've been thinking that the current situation of almost all virtual work
> (for those that can do so) is a losing proposition in the long term.  I'm
> not sure when the impact will be felt, but eventually the work-place
> relationships will shrivel up into superficial and shallow relationships,
> and the trust and social cohesion needed to keep an organization vital and
> energized and innovating will slip.  Companies / workplaces that maintain
> in-person environments will gain the advantage.  Perhaps some companies
> will develop business models that allow them to remain competitive, but I
> fear that those models will be brutal for the 'workers' and heavily benefit
> the company and its leadership.  Man is a social being, and there will be a
> price to pay for reducing workplace social contact.
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:48 AM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> If we still have the Internet and virtual processes used during COVID, do
>> we
>> really need markets and exchanges in big cities?  Why can't all that be
>> virtual from wherever?  With online banking, investing, etc. I think we are
>> close to that now.   There is, however, a serious drawback in reduced
>> social
>> contact:  https://biggeekdad.com/2016/12/the-millennial-question/
>> 
>> The traditional retirement investment was to have kids who can take care of
>> you in old age.  If we, as a nation, continue to have too few children it
>> won't matter how much gold or dollars the old geezers have; there will be
>> no
>> care-givers to hire, at least not American ones.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From:  Allan Streib via Mercedes
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are
>> 
>> I get the sentiment but we need both unless we revert to pure subsistence
>> living. Farmers absolutely need commodities markets in Chicago and New
>> York,
>> for example. Anyone with any substantial assets needs insurance. Anyone who
>> wants income to retire on needs investments.
>> 
>> ...
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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> 
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> 

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I've been thinking that the current situation of almost all virtual work
(for those that can do so) is a losing proposition in the long term.  I'm
not sure when the impact will be felt, but eventually the work-place
relationships will shrivel up into superficial and shallow relationships,
and the trust and social cohesion needed to keep an organization vital and
energized and innovating will slip.  Companies / workplaces that maintain
in-person environments will gain the advantage.  Perhaps some companies
will develop business models that allow them to remain competitive, but I
fear that those models will be brutal for the 'workers' and heavily benefit
the company and its leadership.  Man is a social being, and there will be a
price to pay for reducing workplace social contact.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:48 AM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> If we still have the Internet and virtual processes used during COVID, do
> we
> really need markets and exchanges in big cities?  Why can't all that be
> virtual from wherever?  With online banking, investing, etc. I think we are
> close to that now.   There is, however, a serious drawback in reduced
> social
> contact:  https://biggeekdad.com/2016/12/the-millennial-question/
>
> The traditional retirement investment was to have kids who can take care of
> you in old age.  If we, as a nation, continue to have too few children it
> won't matter how much gold or dollars the old geezers have; there will be
> no
> care-givers to hire, at least not American ones.
>
> -Original Message-
> From:  Allan Streib via Mercedes
>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are
>
> I get the sentiment but we need both unless we revert to pure subsistence
> living. Farmers absolutely need commodities markets in Chicago and New
> York,
> for example. Anyone with any substantial assets needs insurance. Anyone who
> wants income to retire on needs investments.
>
> ...
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

If we still have the Internet and virtual processes used during COVID, do we
really need markets and exchanges in big cities?  Why can't all that be
virtual from wherever?  With online banking, investing, etc. I think we are
close to that now.   There is, however, a serious drawback in reduced social
contact:  https://biggeekdad.com/2016/12/the-millennial-question/ 

The traditional retirement investment was to have kids who can take care of
you in old age.  If we, as a nation, continue to have too few children it
won't matter how much gold or dollars the old geezers have; there will be no
care-givers to hire, at least not American ones.

-Original Message-
From:  Allan Streib via Mercedes

Subject: Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

I get the sentiment but we need both unless we revert to pure subsistence
living. Farmers absolutely need commodities markets in Chicago and New York,
for example. Anyone with any substantial assets needs insurance. Anyone who
wants income to retire on needs investments.

...


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

It is a Tech worker from the left coast.  Not a functional human in the manner 
of older tech workers who actually got into the nuts and bolts of code and 
physical hardware.  This is a Lego programmer or drone who has no interest in 
knowing how “things” work, I am guessing, based on neighbors of mine who were 
slaves at M$, Gargle, Azaman, or Fakebuk.  It was a miracle they were able to 
make it to the shuttle bus each morning.  Most of them had crawled out of 
mama’s basement, got in early enough that stock options were offered, then 
purchased homes based on the assumption the stock would vest and banks were 
tossing out cash like it was confetti.  

One good aspect of the idiots on the block was the constant flow of service 
providers (plumbing, electrical, cleaning, yard tending)  Employing others to 
do the daily jobs these knobs were too clueless to figure out.

On a sadder note, the idiots also tended to create unsafe conditions because 
the stove tended to mystify them.  A few household fires had the station down 
the block rolling up with lights and sirens wailing any time of the day or 
night.  With the residents from 30 years back, the ambulance was in tow, since 
the Silent Generation tended to be in poor health, but knew well how to keep 
their homes functional.

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Dec 2, 2020, at 7:31 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> 
> Probably from Portland and expects the gummint to deal with everything for 
> him, take care of him and his needs. Probably hasn’t factored a Kleb into 
> that calculation 
> 
> --FT


Clay


inter urinas et faeces nascimur

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I get the sentiment but we need both unless we revert to pure
subsistence living. Farmers absolutely need commodities markets in
Chicago and New York, for example. Anyone with any substantial assets
needs insurance. Anyone who wants income to retire on needs investments.

If we're talking a Mad Max total social collapse, yeah the country folks
are probably better off.

Allan

Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  writes:

> VD Hanson podcast episode 44 talks about the urban-rural divide:
> https://www.nationalreview.com/podcasts/the-victor-davis-hanson-podcast/episode-44-the-critical-essence-of-the-country-mouse/
>
> One key take-away, IMO, is the urban folks cannot survive without country 
> folks that provide food, water, energy, and other raw materials.
>
> On the other hand, without the urban folks, rural folks would lack what?  A 
> stock market?  Insurance policies? Most taxes?  Streaming Video?  Class 
> action law suits?  Network/cable news?
>
> To be sure, there are many blue collar urban folks that make an honest 
> living.  I criticize the white-collar snobs that live off their credentials 
> and connections.
>
> The arrogance of those urban parasites who contribute almost nothing but 
> think they are better than the rest.  Even a one-day strike (no food, no 
> water, no gas, no garbage removal, etc.) against any big city would be an 
> eye-opener.   Maybe give them a one-week preview of the green new deal.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of OK Don via Mercedes
> Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 10:47 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: OK Don 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are
>
> I know some people like that - they are from the East coast - always renters, 
> never dealt with anything themselves - just call the landlord.
> Also, he might have only lived in all electric houses - they "just work".
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 10:34 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes < 
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> I know a guy like this. Tech guy, smart, but clueless about ordinary 
>> stuff. He knows how to put gas in his car. Any other issue, even a 
>> burned out bulb, bad wiper blade, etc. it goes to the dealer. That's 
>> actually not uncommon I guess.
>>
>> I'm surprised, honestly, that you would shut off utilities in the 
>> house between tenants. Not something I would do but your business I 
>> guess. Just seems to me it makes things that much more complicated on 
>> move-in day for very minimal savings.
>>
>> Allan

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

VD Hanson podcast episode 44 talks about the urban-rural divide:
https://www.nationalreview.com/podcasts/the-victor-davis-hanson-podcast/episode-44-the-critical-essence-of-the-country-mouse/

One key take-away, IMO, is the urban folks cannot survive without country folks 
that provide food, water, energy, and other raw materials.

On the other hand, without the urban folks, rural folks would lack what?  A 
stock market?  Insurance policies? Most taxes?  Streaming Video?  Class action 
law suits?  Network/cable news?

To be sure, there are many blue collar urban folks that make an honest living.  
I criticize the white-collar snobs that live off their credentials and 
connections.

The arrogance of those urban parasites who contribute almost nothing but think 
they are better than the rest.  Even a one-day strike (no food, no water, no 
gas, no garbage removal, etc.) against any big city would be an eye-opener.   
Maybe give them a one-week preview of the green new deal.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of OK Don via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 10:47 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: OK Don 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

I know some people like that - they are from the East coast - always renters, 
never dealt with anything themselves - just call the landlord.
Also, he might have only lived in all electric houses - they "just work".

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 10:34 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes < 
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I know a guy like this. Tech guy, smart, but clueless about ordinary 
> stuff. He knows how to put gas in his car. Any other issue, even a 
> burned out bulb, bad wiper blade, etc. it goes to the dealer. That's 
> actually not uncommon I guess.
>
> I'm surprised, honestly, that you would shut off utilities in the 
> house between tenants. Not something I would do but your business I 
> guess. Just seems to me it makes things that much more complicated on 
> move-in day for very minimal savings.
>
> Allan
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>

--
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause 
and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher 
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I know some people like that - they are from the East coast - always
renters, never dealt with anything themselves - just call the landlord.
Also, he might have only lived in all electric houses - they "just work".

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 10:34 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I know a guy like this. Tech guy, smart, but clueless about ordinary
> stuff. He knows how to put gas in his car. Any other issue, even a
> burned out bulb, bad wiper blade, etc. it goes to the dealer. That's
> actually not uncommon I guess.
>
> I'm surprised, honestly, that you would shut off utilities in the house
> between tenants. Not something I would do but your business I
> guess. Just seems to me it makes things that much more complicated on
> move-in day for very minimal savings.
>
> Allan
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

If this is the case he’ll be bringing some homeless people with him to set up a 
tent camp in the front yard, too.

-D

> On Dec 2, 2020, at 11:31 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Probably from Portland and expects the gummint to deal with everything for 
> him, take care of him and his needs. Probably hasn’t factored a Kleb into 
> that calculation 
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 2, 2020, at 11:02 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> As I recall, this renter is coming from California or Oregon, left coast
>> area?
>> 
>> There is your explanation Next call will be to ask you why the toilet
>> paper isn't an auto ass wipe feature.
>> 
>> Hope you collected both First and Last month rent as part of the move in
>> deposit... if anything breaks, it will stay broken, he won't fix it.
>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 7:13 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The new renters moved into the house Monday. Keep in mind they were
>>> moving from Oregon and paid for Novembers rent even though they were not
>>> moving in till this week.  We told them all the info as far as utilities
>>> middle of last month.  Guy shows up on Sunday to move a few things in
>>> and we are there finishing up a couple of last minute items.  He walks
>>> the house and wants some light bulbs replaced and a few other minor
>>> deals.  Whatever.  He better be sure there are no burned out  bulbs when
>>> he moves out.  I explained to him that I had shut the water off at the
>>> meter because there is not gas on in the house and it was going to be
>>> down to 25 or so a couple of nights.  I explained when he gets the gas
>>> turned on so there is heat in the house, he can then go down to the
>>> meter and turn it back on.  Yesterday he calls and it took quite a while
>>> to explain to him how to turn the damn valve on at the meter.  He just
>>> could not grasp it.  He finally got it. Later, he messages and says he
>>> turned the heater on and it ran for an hour but never got hot.  We asked
>>> him if he turned the gas on. No, he has not.  Well sir, it is a gas
>>> furnace so it will not heat until you get the gas turned on.  We had to
>>> have one of the garage doors worked on and had an appointment with then
>>> to come out today.  The guy knows this.  He messages saying one of the
>>> garage doors (the working one) starts going down then comes back up. It
>>> was working fine Sunday so he must have something blocking the sensors
>>> or knocked one of them loose.  Why bring this up anyway when you know
>>> the garage door guy will be coming over.  He then states he can't figure
>>> out how to light the gas log fireplaces that are in the house.  It is
>>> real simple, turn gas on, turn knob to pilot and hold it hit, hit the
>>> button to ignite it, turn knob to on, then you are in business. Could
>>> not get it.  The wife had to do it for him.  He says the jets do not
>>> work in the jacuzzi tub.  I just repaired bad air line going from the
>>> switch to the unit, it works fine.  She fills tub up and it works fine.
>>> Guy says oh, you have to have water in the but before they work?  Uh
>>> yea, otherwise you will burn the motor up.  What did he think, it
>>> sprayed jets of water out.  Holy crap.
>>> 
>>> So what does the guy do for a living?  He is in commercial construction
>>> of some sort.  He was relocated here to work on some big expansion the
>>> google server farm is doing here.  That is quite scary.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I turned the water off at the meter to keep the pipes from freezing after 
draining said pipes. When the previous tenants moved out, I never turned on gas 
because it was summer time and no need for heat or cooking. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 2, 2020, at 10:34 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I know a guy like this. Tech guy, smart, but clueless about ordinary
> stuff. He knows how to put gas in his car. Any other issue, even a
> burned out bulb, bad wiper blade, etc. it goes to the dealer. That's
> actually not uncommon I guess.
> 
> I'm surprised, honestly, that you would shut off utilities in the house
> between tenants. Not something I would do but your business I
> guess. Just seems to me it makes things that much more complicated on
> move-in day for very minimal savings.
> 
> Allan
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Yep

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 2, 2020, at 10:02 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> As I recall, this renter is coming from California or Oregon, left coast
> area?
> 
> There is your explanation Next call will be to ask you why the toilet
> paper isn't an auto ass wipe feature.
> 
> Hope you collected both First and Last month rent as part of the move in
> deposit... if anything breaks, it will stay broken, he won't fix it.
> 
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 7:13 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The new renters moved into the house Monday. Keep in mind they were
>> moving from Oregon and paid for Novembers rent even though they were not
>> moving in till this week.  We told them all the info as far as utilities
>> middle of last month.  Guy shows up on Sunday to move a few things in
>> and we are there finishing up a couple of last minute items.  He walks
>> the house and wants some light bulbs replaced and a few other minor
>> deals.  Whatever.  He better be sure there are no burned out  bulbs when
>> he moves out.  I explained to him that I had shut the water off at the
>> meter because there is not gas on in the house and it was going to be
>> down to 25 or so a couple of nights.  I explained when he gets the gas
>> turned on so there is heat in the house, he can then go down to the
>> meter and turn it back on.  Yesterday he calls and it took quite a while
>> to explain to him how to turn the damn valve on at the meter.  He just
>> could not grasp it.  He finally got it. Later, he messages and says he
>> turned the heater on and it ran for an hour but never got hot.  We asked
>> him if he turned the gas on. No, he has not.  Well sir, it is a gas
>> furnace so it will not heat until you get the gas turned on.  We had to
>> have one of the garage doors worked on and had an appointment with then
>> to come out today.  The guy knows this.  He messages saying one of the
>> garage doors (the working one) starts going down then comes back up. It
>> was working fine Sunday so he must have something blocking the sensors
>> or knocked one of them loose.  Why bring this up anyway when you know
>> the garage door guy will be coming over.  He then states he can't figure
>> out how to light the gas log fireplaces that are in the house.  It is
>> real simple, turn gas on, turn knob to pilot and hold it hit, hit the
>> button to ignite it, turn knob to on, then you are in business. Could
>> not get it.  The wife had to do it for him.  He says the jets do not
>> work in the jacuzzi tub.  I just repaired bad air line going from the
>> switch to the unit, it works fine.  She fills tub up and it works fine.
>> Guy says oh, you have to have water in the but before they work?  Uh
>> yea, otherwise you will burn the motor up.  What did he think, it
>> sprayed jets of water out.  Holy crap.
>> 
>> So what does the guy do for a living?  He is in commercial construction
>> of some sort.  He was relocated here to work on some big expansion the
>> google server farm is doing here.  That is quite scary.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I know a guy like this. Tech guy, smart, but clueless about ordinary
stuff. He knows how to put gas in his car. Any other issue, even a
burned out bulb, bad wiper blade, etc. it goes to the dealer. That's
actually not uncommon I guess.

I'm surprised, honestly, that you would shut off utilities in the house
between tenants. Not something I would do but your business I
guess. Just seems to me it makes things that much more complicated on
move-in day for very minimal savings.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Probably from Portland and expects the gummint to deal with everything for him, 
take care of him and his needs. Probably hasn’t factored a Kleb into that 
calculation 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Dec 2, 2020, at 11:02 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> As I recall, this renter is coming from California or Oregon, left coast
> area?
> 
> There is your explanation Next call will be to ask you why the toilet
> paper isn't an auto ass wipe feature.
> 
> Hope you collected both First and Last month rent as part of the move in
> deposit... if anything breaks, it will stay broken, he won't fix it.
> 
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 7:13 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The new renters moved into the house Monday. Keep in mind they were
>> moving from Oregon and paid for Novembers rent even though they were not
>> moving in till this week.  We told them all the info as far as utilities
>> middle of last month.  Guy shows up on Sunday to move a few things in
>> and we are there finishing up a couple of last minute items.  He walks
>> the house and wants some light bulbs replaced and a few other minor
>> deals.  Whatever.  He better be sure there are no burned out  bulbs when
>> he moves out.  I explained to him that I had shut the water off at the
>> meter because there is not gas on in the house and it was going to be
>> down to 25 or so a couple of nights.  I explained when he gets the gas
>> turned on so there is heat in the house, he can then go down to the
>> meter and turn it back on.  Yesterday he calls and it took quite a while
>> to explain to him how to turn the damn valve on at the meter.  He just
>> could not grasp it.  He finally got it. Later, he messages and says he
>> turned the heater on and it ran for an hour but never got hot.  We asked
>> him if he turned the gas on. No, he has not.  Well sir, it is a gas
>> furnace so it will not heat until you get the gas turned on.  We had to
>> have one of the garage doors worked on and had an appointment with then
>> to come out today.  The guy knows this.  He messages saying one of the
>> garage doors (the working one) starts going down then comes back up. It
>> was working fine Sunday so he must have something blocking the sensors
>> or knocked one of them loose.  Why bring this up anyway when you know
>> the garage door guy will be coming over.  He then states he can't figure
>> out how to light the gas log fireplaces that are in the house.  It is
>> real simple, turn gas on, turn knob to pilot and hold it hit, hit the
>> button to ignite it, turn knob to on, then you are in business. Could
>> not get it.  The wife had to do it for him.  He says the jets do not
>> work in the jacuzzi tub.  I just repaired bad air line going from the
>> switch to the unit, it works fine.  She fills tub up and it works fine.
>> Guy says oh, you have to have water in the but before they work?  Uh
>> yea, otherwise you will burn the motor up.  What did he think, it
>> sprayed jets of water out.  Holy crap.
>> 
>> So what does the guy do for a living?  He is in commercial construction
>> of some sort.  He was relocated here to work on some big expansion the
>> google server farm is doing here.  That is quite scary.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[G Mann via Mercedes]

As I recall, this renter is coming from California or Oregon, left coast
area?

There is your explanation Next call will be to ask you why the toilet
paper isn't an auto ass wipe feature.

Hope you collected both First and Last month rent as part of the move in
deposit... if anything breaks, it will stay broken, he won't fix it.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 7:13 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The new renters moved into the house Monday. Keep in mind they were
> moving from Oregon and paid for Novembers rent even though they were not
> moving in till this week.  We told them all the info as far as utilities
> middle of last month.  Guy shows up on Sunday to move a few things in
> and we are there finishing up a couple of last minute items.  He walks
> the house and wants some light bulbs replaced and a few other minor
> deals.  Whatever.  He better be sure there are no burned out  bulbs when
> he moves out.  I explained to him that I had shut the water off at the
> meter because there is not gas on in the house and it was going to be
> down to 25 or so a couple of nights.  I explained when he gets the gas
> turned on so there is heat in the house, he can then go down to the
> meter and turn it back on.  Yesterday he calls and it took quite a while
> to explain to him how to turn the damn valve on at the meter.  He just
> could not grasp it.  He finally got it. Later, he messages and says he
> turned the heater on and it ran for an hour but never got hot.  We asked
> him if he turned the gas on. No, he has not.  Well sir, it is a gas
> furnace so it will not heat until you get the gas turned on.  We had to
> have one of the garage doors worked on and had an appointment with then
> to come out today.  The guy knows this.  He messages saying one of the
> garage doors (the working one) starts going down then comes back up. It
> was working fine Sunday so he must have something blocking the sensors
> or knocked one of them loose.  Why bring this up anyway when you know
> the garage door guy will be coming over.  He then states he can't figure
> out how to light the gas log fireplaces that are in the house.  It is
> real simple, turn gas on, turn knob to pilot and hold it hit, hit the
> button to ignite it, turn knob to on, then you are in business. Could
> not get it.  The wife had to do it for him.  He says the jets do not
> work in the jacuzzi tub.  I just repaired bad air line going from the
> switch to the unit, it works fine.  She fills tub up and it works fine.
> Guy says oh, you have to have water in the but before they work?  Uh
> yea, otherwise you will burn the motor up.  What did he think, it
> sprayed jets of water out.  Holy crap.
>
> So what does the guy do for a living?  He is in commercial construction
> of some sort.  He was relocated here to work on some big expansion the
> google server farm is doing here.  That is quite scary.
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

I almost wonder if it is some kind of scam. Like move in, quit paying rent and 
claim squatters rights to the house or something.

Just seems "off".


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: December 2, 2020 9:12 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: dsereta...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

Sounds even more clueless than some of my college student tenants. Wow.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 2, 2020, at 9:13 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
>
> The new renters moved into the house Monday. Keep in mind they were moving 
> from Oregon and paid for Novembers rent even though they were not moving in 
> till this week.  We told them all the info as far as utilities middle of last 
> month.  Guy shows up on Sunday to move a few things in and we are there 
> finishing up a couple of last minute items.  He walks the house and wants 
> some light bulbs replaced and a few other minor deals.  Whatever.  He better 
> be sure there are no burned out  bulbs when he moves out.  I explained to him 
> that I had shut the water off at the meter because there is not gas on in the 
> house and it was going to be down to 25 or so a couple of nights.  I 
> explained when he gets the gas turned on so there is heat in the house, he 
> can then go down to the meter and turn it back on.  Yesterday he calls and it 
> took quite a while to explain to him how to turn the damn valve on at the 
> meter.  He just could not grasp it.  He finally got it. Later, he messages 
> and says he turned the heater on and it ran for an hour but never got hot.  
> We asked him if he turned the gas on. No, he has not.  Well sir, it is a gas 
> furnace so it will not heat until you get the gas turned on.  We had to have 
> one of the garage doors worked on and had an appointment with then to come 
> out today.  The guy knows this.  He messages saying one of the garage doors 
> (the working one) starts going down then comes back up. It was working fine 
> Sunday so he must have something blocking the sensors or knocked one of them 
> loose.  Why bring this up anyway when you know the garage door guy will be 
> coming over.  He then states he can't figure out how to light the gas log 
> fireplaces that are in the house.  It is real simple, turn gas on, turn knob 
> to pilot and hold it hit, hit the button to ignite it, turn knob to on, then 
> you are in business. Could not get it.  The wife had to do it for him.  He 
> says the jets do not work in the jacuzzi tub.  I just repaired bad air line 
> going from the switch to the unit, it works fine.  She fills tub up and it 
> works fine.  Guy says oh, you have to have water in the but before they work? 
>  Uh yea, otherwise you will burn the motor up.  What did he think, it sprayed 
> jets of water out.  Holy crap.
>
> So what does the guy do for a living?  He is in commercial construction of 
> some sort.  He was relocated here to work on some big expansion the google 
> server farm is doing here.  That is quite scary.
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

Sounds even more clueless than some of my college student tenants. Wow.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 2, 2020, at 9:13 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The new renters moved into the house Monday. Keep in mind they were moving 
> from Oregon and paid for Novembers rent even though they were not moving in 
> till this week.  We told them all the info as far as utilities middle of last 
> month.  Guy shows up on Sunday to move a few things in and we are there 
> finishing up a couple of last minute items.  He walks the house and wants 
> some light bulbs replaced and a few other minor deals.  Whatever.  He better 
> be sure there are no burned out  bulbs when he moves out.  I explained to him 
> that I had shut the water off at the meter because there is not gas on in the 
> house and it was going to be down to 25 or so a couple of nights.  I 
> explained when he gets the gas turned on so there is heat in the house, he 
> can then go down to the meter and turn it back on.  Yesterday he calls and it 
> took quite a while to explain to him how to turn the damn valve on at the 
> meter.  He just could not grasp it.  He finally got it. Later, he messages 
> and says he turned the heater on and it ran for an hour but never got hot.  
> We asked him if he turned the gas on. No, he has not.  Well sir, it is a gas 
> furnace so it will not heat until you get the gas turned on.  We had to have 
> one of the garage doors worked on and had an appointment with then to come 
> out today.  The guy knows this.  He messages saying one of the garage doors 
> (the working one) starts going down then comes back up. It was working fine 
> Sunday so he must have something blocking the sensors or knocked one of them 
> loose.  Why bring this up anyway when you know the garage door guy will be 
> coming over.  He then states he can't figure out how to light the gas log 
> fireplaces that are in the house.  It is real simple, turn gas on, turn knob 
> to pilot and hold it hit, hit the button to ignite it, turn knob to on, then 
> you are in business. Could not get it.  The wife had to do it for him.  He 
> says the jets do not work in the jacuzzi tub.  I just repaired bad air line 
> going from the switch to the unit, it works fine.  She fills tub up and it 
> works fine.  Guy says oh, you have to have water in the but before they work? 
>  Uh yea, otherwise you will burn the motor up.  What did he think, it sprayed 
> jets of water out.  Holy crap.
> 
> So what does the guy do for a living?  He is in commercial construction of 
> some sort.  He was relocated here to work on some big expansion the google 
> server farm is doing here.  That is quite scary.
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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[MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

The new renters moved into the house Monday. Keep in mind they were 
moving from Oregon and paid for Novembers rent even though they were not 
moving in till this week.  We told them all the info as far as utilities 
middle of last month.  Guy shows up on Sunday to move a few things in 
and we are there finishing up a couple of last minute items.  He walks 
the house and wants some light bulbs replaced and a few other minor 
deals.  Whatever.  He better be sure there are no burned out  bulbs when 
he moves out.  I explained to him that I had shut the water off at the 
meter because there is not gas on in the house and it was going to be 
down to 25 or so a couple of nights.  I explained when he gets the gas 
turned on so there is heat in the house, he can then go down to the 
meter and turn it back on.  Yesterday he calls and it took quite a while 
to explain to him how to turn the damn valve on at the meter.  He just 
could not grasp it.  He finally got it. Later, he messages and says he 
turned the heater on and it ran for an hour but never got hot.  We asked 
him if he turned the gas on. No, he has not.  Well sir, it is a gas 
furnace so it will not heat until you get the gas turned on.  We had to 
have one of the garage doors worked on and had an appointment with then 
to come out today.  The guy knows this.  He messages saying one of the 
garage doors (the working one) starts going down then comes back up. It 
was working fine Sunday so he must have something blocking the sensors 
or knocked one of them loose.  Why bring this up anyway when you know 
the garage door guy will be coming over.  He then states he can't figure 
out how to light the gas log fireplaces that are in the house.  It is 
real simple, turn gas on, turn knob to pilot and hold it hit, hit the 
button to ignite it, turn knob to on, then you are in business. Could 
not get it.  The wife had to do it for him.  He says the jets do not 
work in the jacuzzi tub.  I just repaired bad air line going from the 
switch to the unit, it works fine.  She fills tub up and it works fine.  
Guy says oh, you have to have water in the but before they work?  Uh 
yea, otherwise you will burn the motor up.  What did he think, it 
sprayed jets of water out.  Holy crap.


So what does the guy do for a living?  He is in commercial construction 
of some sort.  He was relocated here to work on some big expansion the 
google server farm is doing here.  That is quite scary.



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