Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Isn't Permafrost a serious issue in Alaska when you dig a basement? The ground never really thaws below say 10 ft or so and the amount of ground heave on winter freeze up would likely be extreme with each year walking the basement footing out of position. Just a question, not a statement. I don't do Alaska winters. Grant... On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 9:52 PM, clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: I have never been to alaska. All I get are realtor postings and the pix do not show fuel tanks. Given the length of the season, and difficulty in delivery, I would expect to have a 500-700 gallon tank to be able to heat homes. And there are basements in the older homes. Newer ones seem to have been built in the 80's and are split level cookie cutter homes. Even newer ones also are split level, but have been built about as wide as the two car garage and put the living space over that and behind. All without basement. clay On Jan 29, 2013, at 7:36 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I have never been to alaska. All I get are realtor postings and the pix do not show fuel tanks. Given the length of the season, and difficulty in delivery, I would expect to have a 500-700 gallon tank to be able to heat homes. And there are basements in the older homes. Newer ones seem to have been built in the 80's and are split level cookie cutter homes. Even newer ones also are split level, but have been built about as wide as the two car garage and put the living space over that and behind. All without basement. clay On Jan 29, 2013, at 7:36 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com javascript:; wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:; To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:; Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net javascript:; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
any documentation about what was done to the tank. An inspection showed the soil around the tank was contaminated. The sale fell threw, and now the house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills. The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors. The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of houses, etc. Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful. But its been vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast. Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com javascript:; javascript:; wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:;javascript:; To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.comjavascript:; javascript:; Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net javascript:; javascript:; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Curt Raymond wrote: Why would it cost a fortune? Its basically an on-demand hot water heater that also heats our house. In July, I would expect it to cost some multiple of what you'd spend to operate a dedicated water heater. But you're right, not a fortune, clearly less than you'd spend heating the house in the winter. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
On Jan 29, 2013, at 11:16 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Reference: read The Law Another good read is Fiat Money Inflation In France. It is available for free. Rick Sent from my iPhone The Law is also free online and not all that long or hard to read. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:17 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: The Law is also free online and not all that long or hard to read. Yes, it is. I have read it. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Just make sure you seal up whatever you're insulating. Mice and all kinds of rodents love insulation. If you can't seal it, don't insulate it. You won't dead mice and mice droppings all throughout your walls, ceiling, and floor. You may already know, but it can be so serious I risked telling you again... On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:33 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Curt Raymond wrote: Enough to get me really working on conservation. $3.70/gal at our last fillup. Diesel went to $4.04 this morning up from $3.99 yesterday. I'm working on getting our mortgage refinanced under HARP 2, if I can make that happen I'll finish the insulation on a faster schedule and we'll be looking at a ground loop heat pump sooner rather than later. Blown cellulose is practically free, as in less than a penny per R-point per square foot. R-38 in a 1000 square foot ceiling is under $300. Lowes rents a blower for $20 a day or free with xx bags of insulation. Menards has better blowers with on-off switch at the end of the hose so you can control it from the attic, I think they get $35 for the first 3 hours. On the heat pump issue: An air source heat pump with inverter driven DC compressor motor (like the better mini splits or Carrier's Greenspeed central units) isn't that much more expensive to run than ground source but should be a lot cheaper to install. Ground source's main advantage is that output doesn't drop off when the home's heat needs are greatest. With 70° indoor temp, my 3/4 ton Fujitsu mini split is rated at 12,000 BTU/hr at 47° outdoor temp but only 6840 BTU/hr at 5°. 6840 btu from 710 watts is still 2.8 BTU of heat for every BTU of electricity, not too far off from the 4.0 rating at 47°. That little one room Fuji can tolerably heat my 1200sq foot house when it's 30°F outside. Right now it's 56 out and it's easily heating the house quite evenly, about 74° in the room with the heat pump and 71° in the bedrooms at the other end. I'd be surprised if the coefficient of performance of a $25,000 ground source system is over 5.0. It might take a lot of years for the difference between a COP of 5 and a COP of 3 to 4 to pay for the ground source unit. Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
But then I'd also need a hot water heater. My current furnace also does our domestic hot water... -Curt Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 23:33:34 -0500 From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 5108a29e.1040...@voyager.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Curt Raymond wrote: Enough to get me really working on conservation. $3.70/gal at our last fillup. Diesel went to $4.04 this morning up from $3.99 yesterday. I'm working on getting our mortgage refinanced under HARP 2, if I can make that happen I'll finish the insulation on a faster schedule and we'll be looking at a ground loop heat pump sooner rather than later. Blown cellulose is practically free, as in less than a penny per R-point per square foot. R-38 in a 1000 square foot ceiling is under $300. Lowes rents a blower for $20 a day or free with xx bags of insulation. Menards has better blowers with on-off switch at the end of the hose so you can control it from the attic, I think they get $35 for the first 3 hours. On the heat pump issue: An air source heat pump with inverter driven DC compressor motor (like the better mini splits or Carrier's Greenspeed central units) isn't that much more expensive to run than ground source but should be a lot cheaper to install. Ground source's main advantage is that output doesn't drop off when the home's heat needs are greatest. With 70? indoor temp, my 3/4 ton Fujitsu mini split is rated at 12,000 BTU/hr at 47? outdoor temp but only 6840 BTU/hr at 5?. 6840 btu from 710 watts is still 2.8 BTU of heat for every BTU of electricity, not too far off from the 4.0 rating at 47?. That little one room Fuji can tolerably heat my 1200sq foot house when it's 30?F outside. Right now it's 56 out and it's easily heating the house quite evenly, about 74? in the room with the heat pump and 71? in the bedrooms at the other end. I'd be surprised if the coefficient of performance of a $25,000 ground source system is over 5.0. It might take a lot of years for the difference between a COP of 5 and a COP of 3 to 4 to pay for the ground source unit. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I think the point Jamie is making is that as the government has already (foolishly in my opinion but let that bide) gotten itself into the flood insurance business it must (at least for now) pay out to those people who have signed contracts. If we want to get the government out of the flood insurance business (which I do) we can do that but we must abide by the contracts of yesterday until such time as we can get out from under them. -Curt Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 23:15:50 -0600 From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: a0624084bcd2e5cc2c402@[192.168.0.104] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed The federal government should not be in the business of flood insurance. If State Farm, etc wants to offer flood insurance they can be my guest. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.comwrote: So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums should be paid for their loss? Exactly which of the enumerated powers in the US Constitution says congress shall offer flood insurance? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Agreed But the goobermint needs to get out of the ins biz. I think the point Jamie is making is that as the government has already (foolishly in my opinion but let that bide) gotten itself into the flood insurance business it must (at least for now) pay out to those people who have signed contracts. If we want to get the government out of the flood insurance business (which I do) we can do that but we must abide by the contracts of yesterday until such time as we can get out from under them. -Curt Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 23:15:50 -0600 From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: a0624084bcd2e5cc2c402@[192.168.0.104] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed The federal government should not be in the business of flood insurance. If State Farm, etc wants to offer flood insurance they can be my guest. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.comwrote: So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums should be paid for their loss? Exactly which of the enumerated powers in the US Constitution says congress shall offer flood insurance? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Exactly. I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal government as a Perversion of the law. Government is taking money by force from one group of people and giving it to another. That is why we have gridlock in WDC, the fight is about who gets to steal money from who now. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What makes you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of catastrophe like any other part of the country? Jaime Ah! There is el problemo you think we should not be supported by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere else, but where in the United States constitution, does it say Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the populace to reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water? The real question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution. I grew up near a very large body of water. When winds and floods came, people generally washed out their house, threw out inexpensive furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used furniture and went back to work. Or else they moved out and left the remains to rot or be sold. People who wished some protection bought insecurance. Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint money. When lava flowed over Kalapana and destroyed most of the village and most of Kalapana gardens, some people's insecurance paid, and some insecurance companies took the weasel route, hanging their customers out to dry. There was no goobermint money, not even from the pipples republik of hawaii. When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by Hawaiian Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds available to borrow at low interest. Instead of sucking it up and paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of Hawaii and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay dividends to its shareholders That was such blatant irresponsibility it was staggering at the time. Only when a region whose inhabitants overwhelmingly vote for the Party, does the goobermint think of getting outside their constitutional powers to seize funds from citizens (or print more, thereby obligating future taxpayers to the debt) to play Santa to the Party constituency. Katrina is case in point. nawlins whined and goobermint was forced to extort even more funds to hand out to the Party constituency. Next door, Mizzippi got clobbered worse, but most people went about the business of taking care of themselve, so did not get the vast candy stores from the goobermint. Yes, goobermint entities got goobermint handouts, but by and large the citizenry got little compared on a per capita basis to nawlins. Reference: read The Law ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Exactly. I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal government as a Perversion of the law. Government is taking money by force from one group of people and giving it to another. That is why we have gridlock in WDC, the fight is about who gets to steal money from who now. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What makes you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of catastrophe like any other part of the country? Jaime Ah! There is el problemo you think we should not be supported by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere else, but where in the United States constitution, does it say Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the populace to reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water? The real question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution. I grew up near a very large body of water. When winds and floods came, people generally washed out their house, threw out inexpensive furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used furniture and went back to work. Or else they moved out and left the remains to rot or be sold. People who wished some protection bought insecurance. Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint money. When lava flowed over Kalapana and destroyed most of the village and most of Kalapana gardens, some people's insecurance paid, and some insecurance companies took the weasel route, hanging their customers out to dry. There was no goobermint money, not even from the pipples republik of hawaii. When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by Hawaiian Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds available to borrow at low interest. Instead of sucking it up and paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of Hawaii and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay dividends to its shareholders That was such blatant irresponsibility it was staggering at the time. Only when a region whose inhabitants overwhelmingly vote for the Party, does the goobermint think of getting outside their constitutional powers to seize funds from citizens (or print more, thereby obligating future taxpayers to the debt) to play Santa to the Party constituency. Katrina is case in point. nawlins whined and goobermint was forced to extort even more funds to hand out to the Party constituency. Next door, Mizzippi got clobbered worse, but most people went about the business of taking care of themselve, so did not get the vast candy stores from the goobermint. Yes, goobermint entities got goobermint handouts, but by and large the citizenry got little compared on a per capita basis to nawlins. Reference: read The Law ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:07:09 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy. We don't have a democracy, we have a constitutional republic. And yes, it is stealing. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
What exactly do you call taking money by force? No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Exactly. I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal government as a Perversion of the law. Government is taking money by force from one group of people and giving it to another. That is why we have gridlock in WDC, the fight is about who gets to steal money from who now. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Most of the english speaking world outside the district of columbia call it stealing. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Democracy: Two wolves and One sheep voting on what's for dinner. Republic: One well armed sheep inviting two wolves to eat grass. I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and the REPUBLIC for which it stands sound familiar perhaps? Or, has the misuse of the word Democracy become so overwhelmingly prevalent that no Citizen can remember? On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote: On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:07:09 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy. We don't have a democracy, we have a constitutional republic. And yes, it is stealing. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Curt Raymond wrote: But then I'd also need a hot water heater. My current furnace also does our domestic hot water... That must cost a fortune in the summer. I paid something like $218 for a 40 gallon GE electric water heater at Home Depot last fall. Had to pay for 70' of 10ga wire and a 25 amp breaker, so around $300 total. It eliminated an air leak (aka chimney) that I was able to seal off now that the LP gas water heater was gone. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Andrew Strasfogel wrote: No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy. Or, alternately, a Constitutional Republic if you can keep it. We couldn't, hence the people who think it's right and proper that our government operate as a democracy. Democracy: Two wolves and one sheep deciding what's for dinner by popular vote. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I thought they used the word REPUBLIC in the pledge because it sounded better. ;) On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Andrew Strasfogel wrote: No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy. Or, alternately, a Constitutional Republic if you can keep it. We couldn't, hence the people who think it's right and proper that our government operate as a democracy. Democracy: Two wolves and one sheep deciding what's for dinner by popular vote. Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Armed IRS agents will confiscate property, seize bank accounts, escort you to federal custody. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: What exactly do you call taking money by force? No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Exactly. I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal government as a Perversion of the law. Government is taking money by force from one group of people and giving it to another. That is why we have gridlock in WDC, the fight is about who gets to steal money from who now. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Most of the english speaking world outside the district of columbia call it stealing. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
But isn't this how government must work at a fundamental level? Take taxes from all, distribute it where its needed? - I don't have kids in school, which should my taxes go to pay for it? If you have kids, thats your problem to pay for it. - Nobody is attacking me or my family, I shouldn't have to pay for a war. - I don't care if the interstate highway you take to work in your state needs repair, I don't use it so I'm not paying for it. Seems pretty absurd, no? Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far. (Except maybe with the crowd on this list!) If you really feel your being stolen from, I kindly ask you do either do something about it, or leave and go try to find somewhere that suits you. Perhaps you can find a place with no taxes and where nobody will do anything for you at all, seeing as you're all so self sufficient Maybe you can gather some ideas from these folks: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html#ixzz2JKca7yGi Jaime On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote: Exactly. I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal government as a Perversion of the law. Government is taking money by force from one group of people and giving it to another. That is why we have gridlock in WDC, the fight is about who gets to steal money from who now. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What makes you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of catastrophe like any other part of the country? Jaime Ah! There is el problemo you think we should not be supported by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere else, but where in the United States constitution, does it say Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the populace to reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water? The real question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution. I grew up near a very large body of water. When winds and floods came, people generally washed out their house, threw out inexpensive furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used furniture and went back to work. Or else they moved out and left the remains to rot or be sold. People who wished some protection bought insecurance. Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint money. When lava flowed over Kalapana and destroyed most of the village and most of Kalapana gardens, some people's insecurance paid, and some insecurance companies took the weasel route, hanging their customers out to dry. There was no goobermint money, not even from the pipples republik of hawaii. When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by Hawaiian Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds available to borrow at low interest. Instead of sucking it up and paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of Hawaii and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay dividends to its shareholders That was such blatant irresponsibility it was staggering at the time. Only when a region whose inhabitants overwhelmingly vote for the Party, does the goobermint think of getting outside their constitutional powers to seize funds from citizens (or print more, thereby obligating future taxpayers to the debt) to play Santa to the Party constituency. Katrina is case in point. nawlins whined and goobermint was forced to extort even more funds to hand out to the Party constituency. Next door, Mizzippi got clobbered worse, but most people went about the business of taking care of themselve, so did not get the vast candy stores from the goobermint. Yes, goobermint entities got goobermint handouts, but by and large the citizenry got little compared on a per capita basis to nawlins. Reference: read The Law ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
No, this is not how our government is supposed to work. For the first hundred years, our government did not steal money for the purpose of redistribution. You should read Davy Crockett's speech to Congress: http://www.fee.org/library/detail/not-your-to-give-2 -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: But isn't this how government must work at a fundamental level? Take taxes from all, distribute it where its needed? - I don't have kids in school, which should my taxes go to pay for it? If you have kids, thats your problem to pay for it. - Nobody is attacking me or my family, I shouldn't have to pay for a war. - I don't care if the interstate highway you take to work in your state needs repair, I don't use it so I'm not paying for it. Seems pretty absurd, no? Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far. (Except maybe with the crowd on this list!) If you really feel your being stolen from, I kindly ask you do either do something about it, or leave and go try to find somewhere that suits you. Perhaps you can find a place with no taxes and where nobody will do anything for you at all, seeing as you're all so self sufficient Maybe you can gather some ideas from these folks: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html#ixzz2JKca7yGi Jaime On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote: Exactly. I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal government as a Perversion of the law. Government is taking money by force from one group of people and giving it to another. That is why we have gridlock in WDC, the fight is about who gets to steal money from who now. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What makes you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of catastrophe like any other part of the country? Jaime Ah! There is el problemo you think we should not be supported by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere else, but where in the United States constitution, does it say Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the populace to reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water? The real question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution. I grew up near a very large body of water. When winds and floods came, people generally washed out their house, threw out inexpensive furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used furniture and went back to work. Or else they moved out and left the remains to rot or be sold. People who wished some protection bought insecurance. Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint money. When lava flowed over Kalapana and destroyed most of the village and most of Kalapana gardens, some people's insecurance paid, and some insecurance companies took the weasel route, hanging their customers out to dry. There was no goobermint money, not even from the pipples republik of hawaii. When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by Hawaiian Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds available to borrow at low interest. Instead of sucking it up and paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of Hawaii and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay dividends to its shareholders That was such blatant irresponsibility it was staggering at the time. Only when a region whose inhabitants overwhelmingly vote for the Party, does the goobermint think of getting outside their constitutional powers to seize funds from citizens (or print more, thereby obligating future taxpayers to the debt) to play Santa to the Party constituency. Katrina is case in point. nawlins whined and goobermint was forced to extort even more funds to hand out to the Party constituency. Next door, Mizzippi got clobbered worse, but most people went about the business of taking care of themselve, so did not get the vast candy stores from the goobermint. Yes, goobermint entities got goobermint handouts, but by and large the citizenry got little compared on a per capita basis to nawlins. Reference: read The Law ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Jaime wrote: Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far. (Except maybe with the crowd on this list!) All politics is religion. All politics is close minded incapable of being convinced otherwise. We are I forgot, this is not banned. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: But isn't this how government must work at a fundamental level? Take taxes from all, distribute it where its needed? Not according to the Constitution. - I don't have kids in school, which should my taxes go to pay for it? If you have kids, thats your problem to pay for it. Your local schools are paid from local taxes, I'm talking about the federal government. - Nobody is attacking me or my family, I shouldn't have to pay for a war. Except the Constitution requires our federal government to provide for national defense. - I don't care if the interstate highway you take to work in your state needs repair, I don't use it so I'm not paying for it. Infrastructure spending is not what we're talking about. Seems pretty absurd, no? Sure, when you attempt to set up a bunch of straw man arguments to knock down. Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far. (Except maybe with the crowd on this list!) Um, no comment. If you really feel your being stolen from, I kindly ask you do either do something about it, or leave and go try to find somewhere that suits you. I am doing something; I vote, I write my elected representatives, and I argue my reasoned position every chance I can. If you can't stomach that, the problem seems to be yours. -Max ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Its a nice thing to read, but clearly not relevant today. I'm not happy with a lot going on in Government today, but I do like having highways, schools, police, a fire department, and the national guard when the shit hits the fan. (Like when a hurricane blows through, for example). I pay taxes so I can benefit from these things when I need them. Seems fair to me. Can we go back to talking about Mercedes now? Today I found a radiator shop who is going to clean up and test the radiator from my W109 for $85, and have it done tomorrow. This great deal offsets the $80 I had to spend on a meter of giant cooling hose for the same car, although I only need about 15cm of it. Jaime On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote: No, this is not how our government is supposed to work. For the first hundred years, our government did not steal money for the purpose of redistribution. You should read Davy Crockett's speech to Congress: http://www.fee.org/library/detail/not-your-to-give-2 -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: But isn't this how government must work at a fundamental level? Take taxes from all, distribute it where its needed? - I don't have kids in school, which should my taxes go to pay for it? If you have kids, thats your problem to pay for it. - Nobody is attacking me or my family, I shouldn't have to pay for a war. - I don't care if the interstate highway you take to work in your state needs repair, I don't use it so I'm not paying for it. Seems pretty absurd, no? Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far. (Except maybe with the crowd on this list!) If you really feel your being stolen from, I kindly ask you do either do something about it, or leave and go try to find somewhere that suits you. Perhaps you can find a place with no taxes and where nobody will do anything for you at all, seeing as you're all so self sufficient Maybe you can gather some ideas from these folks: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html#ixzz2JKca7yGi Jaime On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote: Exactly. I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal government as a Perversion of the law. Government is taking money by force from one group of people and giving it to another. That is why we have gridlock in WDC, the fight is about who gets to steal money from who now. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What makes you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of catastrophe like any other part of the country? Jaime Ah! There is el problemo you think we should not be supported by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere else, but where in the United States constitution, does it say Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the populace to reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water? The real question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution. I grew up near a very large body of water. When winds and floods came, people generally washed out their house, threw out inexpensive furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used furniture and went back to work. Or else they moved out and left the remains to rot or be sold. People who wished some protection bought insecurance. Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint money. When lava flowed over Kalapana and destroyed most of the village and most of Kalapana gardens, some people's insecurance paid, and some insecurance companies took the weasel route, hanging their customers out to dry. There was no goobermint money, not even from the pipples republik of hawaii. When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by Hawaiian Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds available to borrow at low interest. Instead of sucking it up and paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of Hawaii and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay dividends to its shareholders That was such blatant irresponsibility it was staggering at the time. Only when a region whose inhabitants overwhelmingly vote for the Party, does the goobermint think of getting outside their constitutional powers to seize funds from citizens (or print more, thereby obligating future taxpayers to the debt) to play
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I pay taxes so I can benefit from these things when I need them. Seems fair to me. Sounds like you are mixing up taxes and insurance premiums. Glad to hear the radiator repair was not expensive! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Aye, we seem to have found another topic to stir up strong opinions. I second your motion, will try to get back to our regular programming... -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Its a nice thing to read, but clearly not relevant today. I'm not happy with a lot going on in Government today, but I do like having highways, schools, police, a fire department, and the national guard when the shit hits the fan. (Like when a hurricane blows through, for example). I pay taxes so I can benefit from these things when I need them. Seems fair to me. Can we go back to talking about Mercedes now? Today I found a radiator shop who is going to clean up and test the radiator from my W109 for $85, and have it done tomorrow. This great deal offsets the $80 I had to spend on a meter of giant cooling hose for the same car, although I only need about 15cm of it. Jaime On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote: No, this is not how our government is supposed to work. For the first hundred years, our government did not steal money for the purpose of redistribution. You should read Davy Crockett's speech to Congress: http://www.fee.org/library/detail/not-your-to-give-2 -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: But isn't this how government must work at a fundamental level? Take taxes from all, distribute it where its needed? - I don't have kids in school, which should my taxes go to pay for it? If you have kids, thats your problem to pay for it. - Nobody is attacking me or my family, I shouldn't have to pay for a war. - I don't care if the interstate highway you take to work in your state needs repair, I don't use it so I'm not paying for it. Seems pretty absurd, no? Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far. (Except maybe with the crowd on this list!) If you really feel your being stolen from, I kindly ask you do either do something about it, or leave and go try to find somewhere that suits you. Perhaps you can find a place with no taxes and where nobody will do anything for you at all, seeing as you're all so self sufficient Maybe you can gather some ideas from these folks: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html#ixzz2JKca7yGi Jaime On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote: Exactly. I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal government as a Perversion of the law. Government is taking money by force from one group of people and giving it to another. That is why we have gridlock in WDC, the fight is about who gets to steal money from who now. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What makes you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of catastrophe like any other part of the country? Jaime Ah! There is el problemo you think we should not be supported by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere else, but where in the United States constitution, does it say Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the populace to reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water? The real question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution. I grew up near a very large body of water. When winds and floods came, people generally washed out their house, threw out inexpensive furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used furniture and went back to work. Or else they moved out and left the remains to rot or be sold. People who wished some protection bought insecurance. Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint money. When lava flowed over Kalapana and destroyed most of the village and most of Kalapana gardens, some people's insecurance paid, and some insecurance companies took the weasel route, hanging their customers out to dry. There was no goobermint money, not even from the pipples republik of hawaii. When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by Hawaiian Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds available to borrow at low interest. Instead of sucking it up and paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of Hawaii and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay dividends to its shareholders That was such blatant irresponsibility it was staggering at the time.
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Why would it cost a fortune? Its basically an on-demand hot water heater that also heats our house. We buy around 200 gallons of oil in January, March and October. This year we went much farther into January than I'd expected us to which I'm attributing to the added insulation in the attic. With more insulation next year I'm aiming for the winter fill to be in February, the spring fill to be in April and the October fill to be small or maybe get skipped. Then I start to imagine what we could get away with if we had an 85% efficient burner instead of our old 65% unit. -Curt Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:28:07 -0500 From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 51099e77.8020...@voyager.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Curt Raymond wrote: But then I'd also need a hot water heater. My current furnace also does our domestic hot water... That must cost a fortune in the summer. I paid something like $218 for a 40 gallon GE electric water heater at Home Depot last fall. Had to pay for 70' of 10ga wire and a 25 amp breaker, so around $300 total. It eliminated an air leak (aka chimney) that I was able to seal off now that the LP gas water heater was gone. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Jamie all your examples clearly constitute a public good. Putting the government into the flood insurance business so fools can build houses too close to the ocean clearly is not... I don't mind paying for the public good, I've made good use of interstate highways. Of course I don't think people should get a tax break for breeding either. They use MORE government services, not less. -Curt Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:38:19 -0500 From: Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: CACY-bAKV_JtKpzmFb+J61EGb1ivK-x5x=yqplxgguby0x9m...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 But isn't this how government must work at a fundamental level? Take taxes from all, distribute it where its needed? - I don't have kids in school, which should my taxes go to pay for it? If you have kids, thats your problem to pay for it. - Nobody is attacking me or my family, I shouldn't have to pay for a war. - I don't care if the interstate highway you take to work in your state needs repair, I don't use it so I'm not paying for it. Seems pretty absurd, no? Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far. (Except maybe with the crowd on this list!) If you really feel your being stolen from, I kindly ask you do either do something about it, or leave and go try to find somewhere that suits you. Perhaps you can find a place with no taxes and where nobody will do anything for you at all, seeing as you're all so self sufficient Maybe you can gather some ideas from these folks: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html#ixzz2JKca7yGi Jaime ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
- Original Message - From: Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues I thought they used the word REPUBLIC in the pledge because it sounded better. ;) On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Andrew Strasfogel wrote: No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy. Or, alternately, a Constitutional Republic if you can keep it. We couldn't, hence the people who think it's right and proper that our government operate as a democracy. Democracy: Two wolves and one sheep deciding what's for dinner by popular vote. Mitch. -- Politically, the U.S. is considered a federal republic: Currently there are a very large number of republics in the world. A republican form of government can be combined with many different kinds of economy and democracy. Some examples for certain forms of republic are: USA, Germany are federal republics governed by representative democracy, in which the states play a crucial role. Switzerland is a confederal republic governed by a combination of representative democracy and direct democracy. Russia is a federation of semi-autonomous republics (states) and directly ruled provinces. Iran is a theocratic republic. Historic Republics: Sparta (c. late 7th Century BC-146 BC) Athens Only under Solon. The Roman Republic (509 BC-c.44 BC) Carthage (308 BC-146 BC) The Republic of Venice (c.9th Century-1797) The French Republic (1792-1804) The Republic of Texas (1836-1845) The Commonwealth of England (1649-1660) The Republic of the Seven United Netherlands (1581-1795) The Soviet Union (1917-1991) was a federal republic. http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Democratic_republic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_republic In simple terms, the founding fathers who wrote the U.S. constitution wanted the states to handle their own domestic problems, thereby leaving the federal government to deal with matters that affected all the states; defense, foreign trade, etc. States rights would be the current version of the founders requirements IMO. As you can see from the links, republic has become a somewhat meaningless term; especially regarding citizens rights; due to the varied forms in which it has existed since Grecian times. We may see a considerable change in American constitutional government in future elections due to one recent ruling: The right of foreign corporations, individuals, and governments to contribute relatively unlimited amounts of money to American candidates political campaigns. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
You've got it, Gerry... the problem is where the campaign money comes from, but its not the foreign sources, its the unlimited amounts pouring in from anonymous super wealthy americans. An elite few are controlling the direction of this country. This is what is really costing us our freedom and reducing influence of the average voter. This is what all of us should be outraged about and share opinions about! On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.comwrote: We may see a considerable change in American constitutional government in future elections due to one recent ruling: The right of foreign corporations, individuals, and governments to contribute relatively unlimited amounts of money to American candidates political campaigns. Gerry -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
The main function of money in politics is to buy communications. But in addition to paid political messages, the media (radio, TV, and newspapers) have great influence and that's all off the books. It seems to me that the media has taken sides, and not just in the editorial spaces. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Kopchinski Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:11 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues You've got it, Gerry... the problem is where the campaign money comes from, but its not the foreign sources, its the unlimited amounts pouring in from anonymous super wealthy americans. An elite few are controlling the direction of this country. This is what is really costing us our freedom and reducing influence of the average voter. This is what all of us should be outraged about and share opinions about! On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.comwrote: We may see a considerable change in American constitutional government in future elections due to one recent ruling: The right of foreign corporations, individuals, and governments to contribute relatively unlimited amounts of money to American candidates political campaigns. Gerry -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
No basements in Alaska? Certainly not in the permafrost zones! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Curt Raymond wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... I suspect that anyplace where the average annual temps are freezing won't have basements. How much of Alaska meets that description I wouldn't pretend to know, but the word permafrost is used often in that state. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s. In many cases, there was no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution. Slowly, all these houses have had their tanks removed. Lucky ones remove them without any event. Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an environmental disaster. Its enough of a problem here that you can get an insurance policy to protect yourself. We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big red flag. To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be removed as a condition of sale. My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed. He had the tank pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago. He passed away and the family tried to sell the house. They can't find any documentation about what was done to the tank. An inspection showed the soil around the tank was contaminated. The sale fell threw, and now the house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills. The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors. The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of houses, etc. Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful. But its been vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast. Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Jaime, How did they discover the tank and the leak? Disclosure - has there ever been an underground oil tank? I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that pumped and filled with sand. That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch. The house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago. On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s. In many cases, there was no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution. Slowly, all these houses have had their tanks removed. Lucky ones remove them without any event. Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an environmental disaster. Its enough of a problem here that you can get an insurance policy to protect yourself. We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big red flag. To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be removed as a condition of sale. My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed. He had the tank pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago. He passed away and the family tried to sell the house. They can't find any documentation about what was done to the tank. An inspection showed the soil around the tank was contaminated. The sale fell threw, and now the house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills. The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors. The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of houses, etc. Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful. But its been vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast. Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.comjavascript:; wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:; To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:; Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.netjavascript:; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the basement, where was the old one, for example. I think he had a small patch in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it away. Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector. We just sold our house and the buyer requested one. Our house was heated by natural gas, but was built in 1937. There was no evidence of oil having been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call. It was quite a relief when we passed the test! Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote: Jaime, How did they discover the tank and the leak? Disclosure - has there ever been an underground oil tank? I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that pumped and filled with sand. That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch. The house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago. On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s. In many cases, there was no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution. Slowly, all these houses have had their tanks removed. Lucky ones remove them without any event. Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an environmental disaster. Its enough of a problem here that you can get an insurance policy to protect yourself. We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big red flag. To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be removed as a condition of sale. My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed. He had the tank pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago. He passed away and the family tried to sell the house. They can't find any documentation about what was done to the tank. An inspection showed the soil around the tank was contaminated. The sale fell threw, and now the house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills. The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors. The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of houses, etc. Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful. But its been vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast. Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com javascript:; wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:; To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:; Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net javascript:; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I certainly don't blame the buyer for wanting to have their bases covered. It can be financial disaster in New Jersey. Its just a shame that the seller had it pumped and filled and had to deal with that. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.comwrote: I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the basement, where was the old one, for example. I think he had a small patch in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it away. Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector. We just sold our house and the buyer requested one. Our house was heated by natural gas, but was built in 1937. There was no evidence of oil having been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call. It was quite a relief when we passed the test! Jaime ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
This is called LUST Leaking Underground Storage Tanks On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the basement, where was the old one, for example. I think he had a small patch in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it away. Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector. We just sold our house and the buyer requested one. Our house was heated by natural gas, but was built in 1937. There was no evidence of oil having been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call. It was quite a relief when we passed the test! Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote: Jaime, How did they discover the tank and the leak? Disclosure - has there ever been an underground oil tank? I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that pumped and filled with sand. That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch. The house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago. On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s. In many cases, there was no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution. Slowly, all these houses have had their tanks removed. Lucky ones remove them without any event. Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an environmental disaster. Its enough of a problem here that you can get an insurance policy to protect yourself. We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big red flag. To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be removed as a condition of sale. My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed. He had the tank pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago. He passed away and the family tried to sell the house. They can't find any documentation about what was done to the tank. An inspection showed the soil around the tank was contaminated. The sale fell threw, and now the house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills. The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors. The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of houses, etc. Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful. But its been vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast. Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com javascript:; wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:; To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:; Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net javascript:; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their hands in everyone's pocket. They'll make you spend tens of thousands of dollars for a cup of heating oil. But foolishly allow development on the beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls through. The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.comwrote: This is called LUST Leaking Underground Storage Tanks On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the basement, where was the old one, for example. I think he had a small patch in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it away. Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector. We just sold our house and the buyer requested one. Our house was heated by natural gas, but was built in 1937. There was no evidence of oil having been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call. It was quite a relief when we passed the test! Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: Jaime, How did they discover the tank and the leak? Disclosure - has there ever been an underground oil tank? I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that pumped and filled with sand. That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch. The house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago. On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s. In many cases, there was no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution. Slowly, all these houses have had their tanks removed. Lucky ones remove them without any event. Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an environmental disaster. Its enough of a problem here that you can get an insurance policy to protect yourself. We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big red flag. To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be removed as a condition of sale. My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed. He had the tank pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago. He passed away and the family tried to sell the house. They can't find any documentation about what was done to the tank. An inspection showed the soil around the tank was contaminated. The sale fell threw, and now the house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills. The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors. The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of houses, etc. Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful. But its been vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast. Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com javascript:; wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:; To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:; Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net javascript:; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
On Jan 29, 2013 8:16 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s. In many cases, there was no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution. Slowly, all these houses have had their tanks removed. Lucky ones remove them without any event. Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an environmental disaster. Same situation with many prewar houses in the Pacific Northwest as well. Been there, done that, have the scars in my checkbook to prove it. Decommissioning of the old tank in a house I was trying to sell was a euphemism for digging up half the driveway, collecting repeated soil samples for lab analysis, wrangling with the city for signoffs, endless back-and-forth with buyers... Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Isn't it doing so now??? On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote: The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What makes you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of catastrophe like any other part of the country? Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote: The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their hands in everyone's pocket. They'll make you spend tens of thousands of dollars for a cup of heating oil. But foolishly allow development on the beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls through. The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: This is called LUST Leaking Underground Storage Tanks On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the basement, where was the old one, for example. I think he had a small patch in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it away. Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector. We just sold our house and the buyer requested one. Our house was heated by natural gas, but was built in 1937. There was no evidence of oil having been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call. It was quite a relief when we passed the test! Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: Jaime, How did they discover the tank and the leak? Disclosure - has there ever been an underground oil tank? I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that pumped and filled with sand. That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch. The house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago. On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s. In many cases, there was no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution. Slowly, all these houses have had their tanks removed. Lucky ones remove them without any event. Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an environmental disaster. Its enough of a problem here that you can get an insurance policy to protect yourself. We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big red flag. To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be removed as a condition of sale. My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed. He had the tank pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago. He passed away and the family tried to sell the house. They can't find any documentation about what was done to the tank. An inspection showed the soil around the tank was contaminated. The sale fell threw, and now the house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills. The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors. The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of houses, etc. Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful. But its been vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast. Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com javascript:; wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:; To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.comjavascript:; Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net javascript:; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Southern Jersey is very nice. Never been to the shore other than Atlantic City, but I never got out of the Trump casino when I was there. Northern Jersey is pretty rough in places, but no worse that someplace like Gary, IN or East Chicago. I think a lot of people would be surprised at what New Jersey is like away from the metro areas. Quite nice. Dan On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:22 PM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What makes you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of catastrophe like any other part of the country? Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote: The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their hands in everyone's pocket. They'll make you spend tens of thousands of dollars for a cup of heating oil. But foolishly allow development on the beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls through. The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: This is called LUST Leaking Underground Storage Tanks On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the basement, where was the old one, for example. I think he had a small patch in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it away. Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector. We ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
If New Jersey wants to rebuild its shore with its own money its fine with me. I lived in New Jersey for over 20 years. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.comwrote: I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What makes you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of catastrophe like any other part of the country? Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their hands in everyone's pocket. They'll make you spend tens of thousands of dollars for a cup of heating oil. But foolishly allow development on the beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls through. The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: This is called LUST Leaking Underground Storage Tanks On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the basement, where was the old one, for example. I think he had a small patch in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it away. Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector. We just sold our house and the buyer requested one. Our house was heated by natural gas, but was built in 1937. There was no evidence of oil having been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call. It was quite a relief when we passed the test! Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: Jaime, How did they discover the tank and the leak? Disclosure - has there ever been an underground oil tank? I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that pumped and filled with sand. That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch. The house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago. On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s. In many cases, there was no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution. Slowly, all these houses have had their tanks removed. Lucky ones remove them without any event. Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an environmental disaster. Its enough of a problem here that you can get an insurance policy to protect yourself. We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big red flag. To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be removed as a condition of sale. My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed. He had the tank pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago. He passed away and the family tried to sell the house. They can't find any documentation about what was done to the tank. An inspection showed the soil around the tank was contaminated. The sale fell threw, and now the house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills. The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors. The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of houses, etc. Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful. But its been vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast. Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com javascript:; wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:; To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:; Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net javascript:; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums should be paid for their loss? On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote: If New Jersey wants to rebuild its shore with its own money its fine with me. I lived in New Jersey for over 20 years. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What makes you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of catastrophe like any other part of the country? Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their hands in everyone's pocket. They'll make you spend tens of thousands of dollars for a cup of heating oil. But foolishly allow development on the beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls through. The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: This is called LUST Leaking Underground Storage Tanks On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the basement, where was the old one, for example. I think he had a small patch in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it away. Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector. We just sold our house and the buyer requested one. Our house was heated by natural gas, but was built in 1937. There was no evidence of oil having been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call. It was quite a relief when we passed the test! Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: Jaime, How did they discover the tank and the leak? Disclosure - has there ever been an underground oil tank? I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that pumped and filled with sand. That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch. The house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago. On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s. In many cases, there was no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution. Slowly, all these houses have had their tanks removed. Lucky ones remove them without any event. Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an environmental disaster. Its enough of a problem here that you can get an insurance policy to protect yourself. We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big red flag. To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be removed as a condition of sale. My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed. He had the tank pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago. He passed away and the family tried to sell the house. They can't find any documentation about what was done to the tank. An inspection showed the soil around the tank was contaminated. The sale fell threw, and now the house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills. The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors. The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of houses, etc. Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful. But its been vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast. Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com javascript:; wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:; To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:; Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:; To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:; Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net javascript:; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote: The federal government should not be in the business of flood insurance. If State Farm, etc wants to offer flood insurance they can be my guest. A little late for that, they already do - sure it's subsidized in many places but the end-user still pays. You can't change a policy after the fact. Interestingly, I live nowhere near a flood zone, and my house is on the top of the hill. We are 30 minutes from the nearest lake, 4 hours from the coast. The city does participate in the national flood insurance program (there is some cost associated with that so I was a little surprised). I looked into flood insurance after the Katrina wind+rain=flood damage nonsense from State Farm started to get publicized. It would have more than doubled my annual premium for just that one rider. IMO I am much more likely to suffer catastrophic wind+tree, or fire, or hail, or earthquake, or drunk driver, or ... damage than I am to get flooded, but the costs did not match that assessment. Based on the news reporters' claims I was surprised how expensive it actually was, even for my low-risk area. Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
On Jan 29, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: I think a lot of people would be surprised at what New Jersey is like away from the metro areas. Quite nice. It is called The Garden State is it not? I was there to visit twenty five years ago, went to AC, the boardwalk, White House Subs, etc. I thought it was pricey, but nice. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Really? I am just slightly out of a 500 year flood zone and my flood insurance is about $250/year. The prices are set by the government, so if you're not in a flood zone I can't imagine yours would be more, as we are in the lowest bracket. Dan On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Tim C bb...@crone.us wrote: On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote: The federal government should not be in the business of flood insurance. If State Farm, etc wants to offer flood insurance they can be my guest. A little late for that, they already do - sure it's subsidized in many places but the end-user still pays. You can't change a policy after the fact. Interestingly, I live nowhere near a flood zone, and my house is on the top of the hill. We are 30 minutes from the nearest lake, 4 hours from the coast. The city does participate in the national flood insurance program (there is some cost associated with that so I was a little surprised). I looked into flood insurance after the Katrina wind+rain=flood damage nonsense from State Farm started to get publicized. It would have more than doubled my annual premium for just that one rider. IMO I am much more likely to suffer catastrophic wind+tree, or fire, or hail, or earthquake, or drunk driver, or ... damage than I am to get flooded, but the costs did not match that assessment. Based on the news reporters' claims I was surprised how expensive it actually was, even for my low-risk area. Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Jaime Kopchinski wrote: So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums should be paid for their loss? I think fedgov never should have gotten into the flood insurance business. It got there because it was already paying for disaster relief after every flood, and that was something it never should have been involved with. If they had to rely on private insurance, they could only afford to build where it was economically feasible, given the expected probability of flood damage. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I have friend who lives maybe 45 minutes from Newark. His wife is a veteran flight attendant that does international routes. They live in an area that I would classify as horse country. Lots of big properties, many with horses. Very nice, and quite a contrast from Newark and surrounds. Not at all what I pictured the first time I visited him. Dan On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote: On Jan 29, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: I think a lot of people would be surprised at what New Jersey is like away from the metro areas. Quite nice. It is called The Garden State is it not? I was there to visit twenty five years ago, went to AC, the boardwalk, White House Subs, etc. I thought it was pricey, but nice. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Its pretty stupid to live in a flood prone area anyway. I really have no remorse for people who choose to live in natural disaster areas. People regularly leave their homelands for better opportunities or jobs. Then are there those that stay in problem/depressed areas and expect the government to pay them to live there. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Jaime Kopchinski wrote: So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums should be paid for their loss? I think fedgov never should have gotten into the flood insurance business. It got there because it was already paying for disaster relief after every flood, and that was something it never should have been involved with. If they had to rely on private insurance, they could only afford to build where it was economically feasible, given the expected probability of flood damage. Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Sure, bring a couple of million dollars, and be ready to pay out of the butt in taxes. Then hear how school bus drivers get paid overtime to charge their cell phones. How they will spend a cool billion dollars to install EZ-Pass on the turnpike to phase out toll collectors who make $20 and hour. How they put 35 mph work zone speeds on the turnpike when there is absolutely no need and traffic whizzes by at 75. Hope you're not one of the unlucky ones who gets a 40 over ticket or rear-ended for going slow. Need to go to the DMV? Take half a day off work and hope you don't have to go back the next day or deal with old bat who just yells at people. Get two speeding tickets too close together? Be prepared for a 'surcharge' for having points on your license from the state. Or the safety inspections that take all day unless you go private. And when you go, be ready to have your OLD REGISTRATION because they don't want to see your NEW REGISTRATION. They issue steel tags before you're inspected. Just pay your money. We don't care if your car is junk as long as you paid your money. We'll just fail you, but hey, we got your money. The whole state is just a corrupt wasteland. Not a decent place to live, don't let the pictures or a quick visit make you think otherwise. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: I have friend who lives maybe 45 minutes from Newark. His wife is a veteran flight attendant that does international routes. They live in an area that I would classify as horse country. Lots of big properties, many with horses. Very nice, and quite a contrast from Newark and surrounds. Not at all what I pictured the first time I visited him. Dan On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote: On Jan 29, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: I think a lot of people would be surprised at what New Jersey is like away from the metro areas. Quite nice. It is called The Garden State is it not? I was there to visit twenty five years ago, went to AC, the boardwalk, White House Subs, etc. I thought it was pricey, but nice. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I have often thought that there should be no Federally funded flood insurance for people who build in a flood zone. If it's an existing structure, let it be, but there should be no new construction in these areas. It's not the perfect means to deal with the situation, but I have a problem subsidizing stupidity in the sense that structures should simply not be built in these areas, and if they are, the taxpayers should not be underwriting their insurance. Dan On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: Its pretty stupid to live in a flood prone area anyway. I really have no remorse for people who choose to live in natural disaster areas. People regularly leave their homelands for better opportunities or jobs. Then are there those that stay in problem/depressed areas and expect the government to pay them to live there. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Jaime Kopchinski wrote: So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums should be paid for their loss? I think fedgov never should have gotten into the flood insurance business. It got there because it was already paying for disaster relief after every flood, and that was something it never should have been involved with. If they had to rely on private insurance, they could only afford to build where it was economically feasible, given the expected probability of flood damage. Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Dan Penoff wrote: I have often thought that there should be no Federally funded flood insurance for people who build in a flood zone. If it's an existing structure, let it be, but there should be no new construction in these areas. And what was our disaster related cost for New Orleans in 2005, something like $500k per household? Would have been cheaper to give every family a check for $200k and tell them to go live someplace that wasn't below sea level. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I like that approach but I don't think it's realistic. People won't move from an area like that, and if they did, you have all the infrastructure that will be abandoned in place. So let the government get out of the insurance business completely and let people tread water. While it sounds good, it's not going to happen IMHO. Dan On Jan 29, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Dan Penoff wrote: I have often thought that there should be no Federally funded flood insurance for people who build in a flood zone. If it's an existing structure, let it be, but there should be no new construction in these areas. And what was our disaster related cost for New Orleans in 2005, something like $500k per household? Would have been cheaper to give every family a check for $200k and tell them to go live someplace that wasn't below sea level. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Are you saying those that live in Tornado Alley should move ASAP? If so, I have a big banned #$(% you for that comment. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (160,xxx mi) On 1/29/2013 1:50 PM, Brian Toscano wrote: Its pretty stupid to live in a flood prone area anyway. I really have no remorse for people who choose to live in natural disaster areas. People regularly leave their homelands for better opportunities or jobs. Then are there those that stay in problem/depressed areas and expect the government to pay them to live there. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Jaime Kopchinski wrote: So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums should be paid for their loss? I think fedgov never should have gotten into the flood insurance business. It got there because it was already paying for disaster relief after every flood, and that was something it never should have been involved with. If they had to rely on private insurance, they could only afford to build where it was economically feasible, given the expected probability of flood damage. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I don't care who lives where. I don't think the federal government should subsidize living in natural disaster areas. Actually, I don't think the federal government should subsidize a lot of things, but they do. I would rather see the government spend the money in tornado alley than the armpit of America. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote: Are you saying those that live in Tornado Alley should move ASAP? If so, I have a big banned #$(% you for that comment. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (160,xxx mi) On 1/29/2013 1:50 PM, Brian Toscano wrote: Its pretty stupid to live in a flood prone area anyway. I really have no remorse for people who choose to live in natural disaster areas. People regularly leave their homelands for better opportunities or jobs. Then are there those that stay in problem/depressed areas and expect the government to pay them to live there. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Jaime Kopchinski wrote: So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums should be paid for their loss? I think fedgov never should have gotten into the flood insurance business. It got there because it was already paying for disaster relief after every flood, and that was something it never should have been involved with. If they had to rely on private insurance, they could only afford to build where it was economically feasible, given the expected probability of flood damage. Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
That's strange; mine was somewhat more than $1K/yr, definitely not in a flood zone. Maybe there is some amount the state chips in above what the muni pays. Or maybe my State Farm agent hates me, and decided it wasn't worth the commission, or she's planning to come flood my house and buy it out from under me. :) Best, -Tim On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: Really? I am just slightly out of a 500 year flood zone and my flood insurance is about $250/year. The prices are set by the government, so if you're not in a flood zone I can't imagine yours would be more, as we are in the lowest bracket. Dan On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Tim C bb...@crone.us wrote: On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: The federal government should not be in the business of flood insurance. If State Farm, etc wants to offer flood insurance they can be my guest. A little late for that, they already do - sure it's subsidized in many places but the end-user still pays. You can't change a policy after the fact. Interestingly, I live nowhere near a flood zone, and my house is on the top of the hill. We are 30 minutes from the nearest lake, 4 hours from the coast. The city does participate in the national flood insurance program (there is some cost associated with that so I was a little surprised). I looked into flood insurance after the Katrina wind+rain=flood damage nonsense from State Farm started to get publicized. It would have more than doubled my annual premium for just that one rider. IMO I am much more likely to suffer catastrophic wind+tree, or fire, or hail, or earthquake, or drunk driver, or ... damage than I am to get flooded, but the costs did not match that assessment. Based on the news reporters' claims I was surprised how expensive it actually was, even for my low-risk area. Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I partially agree. The gov't should not subsidize living or not paying for full insurance for probable disasters. People should be able to choose where they want to live, it's part of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (160,xxx mi) On 1/29/2013 2:30 PM, Brian Toscano wrote: I don't care who lives where. I don't think the federal government should subsidize living in natural disaster areas. Actually, I don't think the federal government should subsidize a lot of things, but they do. I would rather see the government spend the money in tornado alley than the armpit of America. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote: Are you saying those that live in Tornado Alley should move ASAP? If so, I have a big banned #$(% you for that comment. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (160,xxx mi) On 1/29/2013 1:50 PM, Brian Toscano wrote: Its pretty stupid to live in a flood prone area anyway. I really have no remorse for people who choose to live in natural disaster areas. People regularly leave their homelands for better opportunities or jobs. Then are there those that stay in problem/depressed areas and expect the government to pay them to live there. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Jaime Kopchinski wrote: So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums should be paid for their loss? I think fedgov never should have gotten into the flood insurance business. It got there because it was already paying for disaster relief after every flood, and that was something it never should have been involved with. If they had to rely on private insurance, they could only afford to build where it was economically feasible, given the expected probability of flood damage. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
We used fuel oil to heat in NW Ontario. I recall New Year's Eve 1974 (at least I think that was the year - it had to be73, 74 or 75 as those were the years that I lived in that house - from July 1973 to August 1975) the temperature was about minus 50 F. The house was a small cottage that belonged to my parents and my wife and I lived there the first couple of years that we were married. We had a 250 gallon oil tank on a stand at the end of the house. There was probably 3 feet of copper tubing from the tank outlet to the wall of the house and I believe I had it wrapped with insulation of some sort. About midnight, the oil fired space heater went out. We could tell because, in the cold weather, it was turned up high enough that the automatic fan on it ran all of the time. When we heard the fan stop, we knew it was not a good sign. I got up out of bed and got fully dressed and went out and banged on the end of the tank with a hammer. That got the oil flowing again and we relit the oil heater. A half hour later, the fan stopped again. I got up and got fully dressed again and found a trouble light. I plugged it in and hung the bulb end on the gate valve at the opening to the oil tank. No more problem. The bulb alone created enough heat to keep the oil flowing. I don't know what sort of additive or thinner they put in the fuel oil back then but we normally did not have any issues with flow so long as the temperatures stayed above about minus 40F. My parents had oil heat at the house as well and it was a similar setup. The tank was close to the house and it only caused issues in extreme cold. Randy On 28/01/2013 10:21 PM, clay monroe wrote: A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 22:20:19 -0700 From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 20130125222019.b78ee6064c77339a64cdf...@pisquared.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:37:39 -0800 clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: This is curious on a lot of levels SWMBA is moving herself to the great white north next year. So she is leaving you behind? I wonder about CO with the place all buttoned up tight for six months. It depends upon whether you have a gas water heater and furnace and how tight the place actually is. It would likely be no more problem than if you were there, the amount of CO in the air probably reaches steady-state overnight. In addition, when you are away, there are no vent fans run. You can set a gas water heater to pilot and not have much consumption from that. You can turn down the temperature on the furnace. How do they deal with the moisture added to the dry air and not get mold? Not running the humidifier when away will prevent that problem and save electricity and water to boot. But if it's dry air to start ... I am told there is not much forced air heat, since the availability of NG is dropping. No way to get it from the ground to town. Actually, natural gas prices in the U.S. are dropping because of the increased supply with fracking. The U.S. will shortly become a natural gas exporter. Whether there is not much forced air heat has nothing to do with natural gas. The only other major energy sources are propane and electricity, both of which fuel forced air heating systems as well as boilers for hydronic heat, just like natural gas does. But you don't say where there is not much forced air heat Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I was born and raised in NJ. I spent my summers at the Jersey shore. I left in 1965 for college and military service. Even though I still have family there, I agree with Brian. The only reason I'd go back is to attend a funeral. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Brian Toscano Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:59 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their hands in everyone's pocket. They'll make you spend tens of thousands of dollars for a cup of heating oil. But foolishly allow development on the beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls through. The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.comwrote: This is called LUST Leaking Underground Storage Tanks On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the basement, where was the old one, for example. I think he had a small patch in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it away. Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector. We just sold our house and the buyer requested one. Our house was heated by natural gas, but was built in 1937. There was no evidence of oil having been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call. It was quite a relief when we passed the test! Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: Jaime, How did they discover the tank and the leak? Disclosure - has there ever been an underground oil tank? I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that pumped and filled with sand. That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch. The house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago. On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote: Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s. In many cases, there was no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution. Slowly, all these houses have had their tanks removed. Lucky ones remove them without any event. Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an environmental disaster. Its enough of a problem here that you can get an insurance policy to protect yourself. We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big red flag. To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be removed as a condition of sale. My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed. He had the tank pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago. He passed away and the family tried to sell the house. They can't find any documentation about what was done to the tank. An inspection showed the soil around the tank was contaminated. The sale fell threw, and now the house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills. The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors. The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of houses, etc. Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful. But its been vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast. Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com javascript:; wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:; To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:; Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net javascript:; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Its true, Dan. Much of New Jersey is suburban or rural, even northern NJ. The area surrounding New York City, of course, is congested, and overall cost of living is high. But, this is to be expected living so close to the largest city in the country. It generally gets a bad rep because people pass through the industrial areas of I-95 and you don't get to see much beyond smoke stacks. But a few miles west of I-95 things start to thin out. Wealthy areas have large lots, horses, etc. Middle class areas are typically suburban with their quiet streets and green lawns. Quality of living is high, but so is the cost.. most families have two people working, at least in my younger generation. Except for the finance guys, their wives stay home. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: I have friend who lives maybe 45 minutes from Newark. His wife is a veteran flight attendant that does international routes. They live in an area that I would classify as horse country. Lots of big properties, many with horses. Very nice, and quite a contrast from Newark and surrounds. Not at all what I pictured the first time I visited him. Dan On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote: On Jan 29, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: I think a lot of people would be surprised at what New Jersey is like away from the metro areas. Quite nice. It is called The Garden State is it not? I was there to visit twenty five years ago, went to AC, the boardwalk, White House Subs, etc. I thought it was pricey, but nice. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
So how much heating oil is used now days? Diesel going up in the winter always used to be blamed on the heating oil season Sent from my iPhone On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:16 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s. In many cases, there was no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution. Slowly, all these houses have had their tanks removed. Lucky ones remove them without any event. Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an environmental disaster. Its enough of a problem here that you can get an insurance policy to protect yourself. We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big red flag. To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be removed as a condition of sale. My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed. He had the tank pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago. He passed away and the family tried to sell the house. They can't find any documentation about what was done to the tank. An inspection showed the soil around the tank was contaminated. The sale fell threw, and now the house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills. The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors. The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of houses, etc. Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful. But its been vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast. Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
That is a little harsh telling somebody their state can rot. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:59 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their hands in everyone's pocket. They'll make you spend tens of thousands of dollars for a cup of heating oil. But foolishly allow development on the beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls through. The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.comwrote: This is called LUST Leaking Underground Storage Tanks On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the basement, where was the old one, for example. I think he had a small patch in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it away. Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector. We just sold our house and the buyer requested one. Our house was heated by natural gas, but was built in 1937. There was no evidence of oil having been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call. It was quite a relief when we passed the test! Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: Jaime, ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
In Maine, oil is king. Natural gas is starting to take hold in the in town locations but most of the state is rural so no gas lines. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 29, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: So how much heating oil is used now days? Diesel going up in the winter always used to be blamed on the heating oil season Sent from my iPhone On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:16 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote: Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s. In many cases, there was no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution. Slowly, all these houses have had their tanks removed. Lucky ones remove them without any event. Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an environmental disaster. Its enough of a problem here that you can get an insurance policy to protect yourself. We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big red flag. To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be removed as a condition of sale. My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed. He had the tank pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago. He passed away and the family tried to sell the house. They can't find any documentation about what was done to the tank. An inspection showed the soil around the tank was contaminated. The sale fell threw, and now the house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills. The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors. The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of houses, etc. Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful. But its been vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast. Jaime On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: No basements in Alaska? In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers... -Curt Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: That is a little harsh telling somebody their state can rot. True, but it's understandable if their state is as famously corrupt as Mississippi, Louisiana, Illinois or New Jersey. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Yea ok, they them rot then:) Sent from my iPhone On Jan 29, 2013, at 6:25 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: That is a little harsh telling somebody their state can rot. True, but it's understandable if their state is as famously corrupt as Mississippi, Louisiana, Illinois or New Jersey. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Enough to get me really working on conservation. $3.70/gal at our last fillup. Diesel went to $4.04 this morning up from $3.99 yesterday. I'm working on getting our mortgage refinanced under HARP 2, if I can make that happen I'll finish the insulation on a faster schedule and we'll be looking at a ground loop heat pump sooner rather than later. -Curt Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:17:27 -0600 From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: assp.27422071ef.b8fa7e10-887c-4fae-aa19-100e80c8b...@striplin.net Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii So how much heating oil is used now days? Diesel going up in the winter always used to be blamed on the heating oil season Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Curt Raymond wrote: Enough to get me really working on conservation. $3.70/gal at our last fillup. Diesel went to $4.04 this morning up from $3.99 yesterday. I'm working on getting our mortgage refinanced under HARP 2, if I can make that happen I'll finish the insulation on a faster schedule and we'll be looking at a ground loop heat pump sooner rather than later. Blown cellulose is practically free, as in less than a penny per R-point per square foot. R-38 in a 1000 square foot ceiling is under $300. Lowes rents a blower for $20 a day or free with xx bags of insulation. Menards has better blowers with on-off switch at the end of the hose so you can control it from the attic, I think they get $35 for the first 3 hours. On the heat pump issue: An air source heat pump with inverter driven DC compressor motor (like the better mini splits or Carrier's Greenspeed central units) isn't that much more expensive to run than ground source but should be a lot cheaper to install. Ground source's main advantage is that output doesn't drop off when the home's heat needs are greatest. With 70° indoor temp, my 3/4 ton Fujitsu mini split is rated at 12,000 BTU/hr at 47° outdoor temp but only 6840 BTU/hr at 5°. 6840 btu from 710 watts is still 2.8 BTU of heat for every BTU of electricity, not too far off from the 4.0 rating at 47°. That little one room Fuji can tolerably heat my 1200sq foot house when it's 30°F outside. Right now it's 56 out and it's easily heating the house quite evenly, about 74° in the room with the heat pump and 71° in the bedrooms at the other end. I'd be surprised if the coefficient of performance of a $25,000 ground source system is over 5.0. It might take a lot of years for the difference between a COP of 5 and a COP of 3 to 4 to pay for the ground source unit. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What makes you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of catastrophe like any other part of the country? Jaime Ah! There is el problemo you think we should not be supported by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere else, but where in the United States constitution, does it say Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the populace to reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water? The real question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution. I grew up near a very large body of water. When winds and floods came, people generally washed out their house, threw out inexpensive furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used furniture and went back to work. Or else they moved out and left the remains to rot or be sold. People who wished some protection bought insecurance. Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint money. When lava flowed over Kalapana and destroyed most of the village and most of Kalapana gardens, some people's insecurance paid, and some insecurance companies took the weasel route, hanging their customers out to dry. There was no goobermint money, not even from the pipples republik of hawaii. When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by Hawaiian Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds available to borrow at low interest. Instead of sucking it up and paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of Hawaii and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay dividends to its shareholders That was such blatant irresponsibility it was staggering at the time. Only when a region whose inhabitants overwhelmingly vote for the Party, does the goobermint think of getting outside their constitutional powers to seize funds from citizens (or print more, thereby obligating future taxpayers to the debt) to play Santa to the Party constituency. Katrina is case in point. nawlins whined and goobermint was forced to extort even more funds to hand out to the Party constituency. Next door, Mizzippi got clobbered worse, but most people went about the business of taking care of themselve, so did not get the vast candy stores from the goobermint. Yes, goobermint entities got goobermint handouts, but by and large the citizenry got little compared on a per capita basis to nawlins. Reference: read The Law ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
The federal government should not be in the business of flood insurance. If State Farm, etc wants to offer flood insurance they can be my guest. On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.comwrote: So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums should be paid for their loss? Exactly which of the enumerated powers in the US Constitution says congress shall offer flood insurance? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Well said. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (159,xxx mi) On 1/29/2013 11:13 PM, Dieselhead wrote: I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What makes you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of catastrophe like any other part of the country? Jaime Ah! There is el problemo you think we should not be supported by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere else, but where in the United States constitution, does it say Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the populace to reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water? The real question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution. I grew up near a very large body of water. When winds and floods came, people generally washed out their house, threw out inexpensive furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used furniture and went back to work. Or else they moved out and left the remains to rot or be sold. People who wished some protection bought insecurance. Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint money. When lava flowed over Kalapana and destroyed most of the village and most of Kalapana gardens, some people's insecurance paid, and some insecurance companies took the weasel route, hanging their customers out to dry. There was no goobermint money, not even from the pipples republik of hawaii. When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by Hawaiian Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds available to borrow at low interest. Instead of sucking it up and paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of Hawaii and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay dividends to its shareholders That was such blatant irresponsibility it was staggering at the time. Only when a region whose inhabitants overwhelmingly vote for the Party, does the goobermint think of getting outside their constitutional powers to seize funds from citizens (or print more, thereby obligating future taxpayers to the debt) to play Santa to the Party constituency. Katrina is case in point. nawlins whined and goobermint was forced to extort even more funds to hand out to the Party constituency. Next door, Mizzippi got clobbered worse, but most people went about the business of taking care of themselve, so did not get the vast candy stores from the goobermint. Yes, goobermint entities got goobermint handouts, but by and large the citizenry got little compared on a per capita basis to nawlins. Reference: read The Law ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
On Jan 29, 2013, at 11:16 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Reference: read The Law Another good read is Fiat Money Inflation In France. It is available for free. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy Hugo Chavez. When he dies, that subsidy goes away. There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of. Too much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway. clay On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 22:20:19 -0700 From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 20130125222019.b78ee6064c77339a64cdf...@pisquared.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:37:39 -0800 clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: This is curious on a lot of levels SWMBA is moving herself to the great white north next year. So she is leaving you behind? I wonder about CO with the place all buttoned up tight for six months. It depends upon whether you have a gas water heater and furnace and how tight the place actually is. It would likely be no more problem than if you were there, the amount of CO in the air probably reaches steady-state overnight. In addition, when you are away, there are no vent fans run. You can set a gas water heater to pilot and not have much consumption from that. You can turn down the temperature on the furnace. How do they deal with the moisture added to the dry air and not get mold? Not running the humidifier when away will prevent that problem and save electricity and water to boot. But if it's dry air to start ... I am told there is not much forced air heat, since the availability of NG is dropping. No way to get it from the ground to town. Actually, natural gas prices in the U.S. are dropping because of the increased supply with fracking. The U.S. will shortly become a natural gas exporter. Whether there is not much forced air heat has nothing to do with natural gas. The only other major energy sources are propane and electricity, both of which fuel forced air heating systems as well as boilers for hydronic heat, just like natural gas does. But you don't say where there is not much forced air heat Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
On Jan 25, 2013, at 9:20 PM, Craig wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:37:39 -0800 clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: This is curious on a lot of levels SWMBA is moving herself to the great white north next year. So she is leaving you behind? I demanded to be left behind. Not into cold, dark, frozen. I wonder about CO with the place all buttoned up tight for six months. It depends upon whether you have a gas water heater and furnace and how tight the place actually is. It would likely be no more problem than if you were there, the amount of CO in the air probably reaches steady-state overnight. In addition, when you are away, there are no vent fans run. You can set a gas water heater to pilot and not have much consumption from that. You can turn down the temperature on the furnace. I have never been there and there is question as to exactly what will be making power or heat for Alaska in future. They have run out of close NG, rest of the NG is in ANWAR and no pipe line, running out of flowing electrons in a year or so and will take at least a decade to get permits for a hydro plant. Solar is bad for half the year, so, cut trees I am thinking. Still get CO if the place is buttoned up. How do they deal with the moisture added to the dry air and not get mold? Not running the humidifier when away will prevent that problem and save electricity and water to boot. But if it's dry air to start ... No relative humidity, and SWMBA has sinus issue and busted capilaries, so there is a need for some moisture. Seattle is wet, so no troubles here. I am told there is not much forced air heat, since the availability of NG is dropping. No way to get it from the ground to town. Actually, natural gas prices in the U.S. are dropping because of the increased supply with fracking. The U.S. will shortly become a natural gas exporter. Whether there is not much forced air heat has nothing to do with natural gas. The only other major energy sources are propane and electricity, both of which fuel forced air heating systems as well as boilers for hydronic heat, just like natural gas does. But you don't say where there is not much forced air heat SWMBA is going north. Cook inlet NG is petering out, so there is a lack of NG to be had in the 49th state. Also failed to build a bunch of electron pushing plants, and enviro weenies are up in arms about coal mining. Lots of energy in the ground. Hard to get it to the doorstep instead of to the supertanker. All the homes she looks at have baseboard heat, though some have FA. There is hydronic, but hard to tell what is powering that. If NG, price will increase as product fades. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
The newer gas furnaces (mandated to be 90%) require a fresh air intake. I think it is for combustion, but I would be inclined to add another fresh air and have it go through a pre-heat to inject into the breathing space. Or add some sort of equalizer for air pressure On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:43 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: For that matter at some point you'd get worried about being able to breathe... We had the a lot of work done at camp last summer, walls insulated, new windows, tongue and groove pine interior, new door. With all that done we were surprised that we now can't run the range hood with the woodstove going if we don't open a window... That was while I could still see light between the boards where the roof meets the wall... We've since had the ceiling insulated, added structure and the pine tongue and groove. It'll be interesting to learn to live with a very tight camp. -Curt Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:02:52 -0700 From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 20130125210252.50ce09e4215369fb719f6...@pisquared.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On 24/01/2013 7:06 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: I have been working on sealing literally every penetration of the ceiling of our living space. I had a blower door test done last week, and the guy who did it was stunned at how well sealed our house was. Where does the make-up air for your kitchen vent hood and bath vents come from? Do you have any fuel-burning applicances in your house? Where does the make-up air for them come from? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Yes. The inlet air for combustion is provided by a 2-1/2 PVC pipe in these furnaces. In the condensing models, exhaust combustion air can also go through PVC as it is cooled to the point of not affecting the PVC. You can see these as two pipes exiting the foundation, one in a J shape and the other just going up and out into a 90. We had one of these when we built our house in Wisconsin. It was tight enough that we also had an air to air heat exchanger as well. Dan On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:56 PM, clay monroe wrote: The newer gas furnaces (mandated to be 90%) require a fresh air intake. I think it is for combustion, but I would be inclined to add another fresh air and have it go through a pre-heat to inject into the breathing space. Or add some sort of equalizer for air pressure ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
The blade was likely powered by an early gasoline engine. Ours was a 12-cylinder Packard. It's still out in the woods. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
For that matter at some point you'd get worried about being able to breathe... We had the a lot of work done at camp last summer, walls insulated, new windows, tongue and groove pine interior, new door. With all that done we were surprised that we now can't run the range hood with the woodstove going if we don't open a window... That was while I could still see light between the boards where the roof meets the wall... We've since had the ceiling insulated, added structure and the pine tongue and groove. It'll be interesting to learn to live with a very tight camp. -Curt Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:02:52 -0700 From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 20130125210252.50ce09e4215369fb719f6...@pisquared.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On 24/01/2013 7:06 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: I have been working on sealing literally every penetration of the ceiling of our living space. I had a blower door test done last week, and the guy who did it was stunned at how well sealed our house was. Where does the make-up air for your kitchen vent hood and bath vents come from? Do you have any fuel-burning applicances in your house? Where does the make-up air for them come from? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil. In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air. -Curt Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 22:20:19 -0700 From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 20130125222019.b78ee6064c77339a64cdf...@pisquared.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:37:39 -0800 clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: This is curious on a lot of levels SWMBA is moving herself to the great white north next year. So she is leaving you behind? I wonder about CO with the place all buttoned up tight for six months. It depends upon whether you have a gas water heater and furnace and how tight the place actually is. It would likely be no more problem than if you were there, the amount of CO in the air probably reaches steady-state overnight. In addition, when you are away, there are no vent fans run. You can set a gas water heater to pilot and not have much consumption from that. You can turn down the temperature on the furnace. How do they deal with the moisture added to the dry air and not get mold? Not running the humidifier when away will prevent that problem and save electricity and water to boot. But if it's dry air to start ... I am told there is not much forced air heat, since the availability of NG is dropping. No way to get it from the ground to town. Actually, natural gas prices in the U.S. are dropping because of the increased supply with fracking. The U.S. will shortly become a natural gas exporter. Whether there is not much forced air heat has nothing to do with natural gas. The only other major energy sources are propane and electricity, both of which fuel forced air heating systems as well as boilers for hydronic heat, just like natural gas does. But you don't say where there is not much forced air heat Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Lately I seem to have a wife with the same problem. It seems like the time for her to close the door is inversely proportional to the temperature outside. She'll come inside and stomp all around, take off her coat, check the mail, run the answering machine, then go close the door. The likelyhood of us having a fight is directly proportional to my saying Shut the dammed door! Do you live in a barn? Fortunately she's the one what pays for the oil. -Curt Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 23:47:02 -0600 From: Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: bay405-eas234138e59ca6815adff51fddd...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Jan 25, 2013, at 10:33 PM, clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: I have a kid who does not understand how a door functions. Me too. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
The super-tight houses that are supposed to be energy neutral use an under ground pipe to source fresh air - the ground helps heats the cold air before it gets to the house. Then it passes through a heat exchanger to warm it more - extracting waste heat from whatever might generate it. IIRC, the under ground air pipes were at least 50 feet, more was preferable. On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: For that matter at some point you'd get worried about being able to breathe... We had the a lot of work done at camp last summer, walls insulated, new windows, tongue and groove pine interior, new door. With all that done we were surprised that we now can't run the range hood with the woodstove going if we don't open a window... That was while I could still see light between the boards where the roof meets the wall... We've since had the ceiling insulated, added structure and the pine tongue and groove. It'll be interesting to learn to live with a very tight camp. -Curt Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:02:52 -0700 From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Message-ID: 20130125210252.50ce09e4215369fb719f6...@pisquared.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On 24/01/2013 7:06 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: I have been working on sealing literally every penetration of the ceiling of our living space. I had a blower door test done last week, and the guy who did it was stunned at how well sealed our house was. Where does the make-up air for your kitchen vent hood and bath vents come from? Do you have any fuel-burning applicances in your house? Where does the make-up air for them come from? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Hot water has a number of advantages -- easy to add onto (and easy to add loops with separate thermostats for zone control), better heat transfer so costs are lower, and since the baseboard radiator is always warm, no drafts. A neighbor always comments on that when she comes to visit. Very quiet too, normally. We have an installation problem I have not solved (along with a fill of very hard water) so we have air in the pipes, gurgles all winter. I don't notice, but other people do. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
A better alternative is to use a simple heat exchanger for a small amount airflow, but supply outside air for things like fireplaces, furnaces, and hot water heaters. My brother used to build houses, and always put in outside air to the front of the fireplace, leaving a slot on the front face just behind the opening. Saves a fortune in wasted conditioned air if you have good glass doors. You also need a proper vapor barrier, else the house goes bone dry. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
My brother used to build houses, and always put in outside air to the front of the fireplace, leaving a slot on the front face just behind the opening. Saves a fortune in wasted conditioned air if you have good glass doors. Peter Do you mean a slot in the floor of the fireplace, just inside the glass doors? Our fireplace has no external air source, so we haven't used it. I have been wondering the best way/place to provide outside air to the fire. -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
That was the idea. With an exterior wall chimney, you can use the ash door (who dumps the ashes down the bottom of the fireplace anyway?). Have to build that in, however. Otherwise, if you can build an insulated duct to the front of the fireplace, do so. Fire burns nicely behind glass doors, no interior air goes up chinmey. Better yet, build in a Heatilator fireplace -- cast iron box with ducts in the interior that pull cold air off the floor and vent heated air from the iron box into the room. With exterior combustion air, you are all set, works like a woodstove but you can see the fire. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I have nat. gas-fired circulating hot water plus 3 heat pumps. Wilton - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues Hot water has a number of advantages -- easy to add onto (and easy to add loops with separate thermostats for zone control), better heat transfer so costs are lower, and since the baseboard radiator is always warm, no drafts. A neighbor always comments on that when she comes to visit. Very quiet too, normally. We have an installation problem I have not solved (along with a fill of very hard water) so we have air in the pipes, gurgles all winter. I don't notice, but other people do. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
The place is not completely sealed, by any means. No fuel burning appliances in the house, the vents leak enough that if they are on make up air will be pulled from one of the others. No range hood. My biggest concern was sealing the ceiling plane between the living space and attic. When I install the solar powered attic fan I don't want it depressurizing the attic to the point where it could pull conditioned air from the living space. I have plenty of soffit vents and existing roof vents to exceed code and building requirements, so I am good there. Dan Sent from my iPad On 24/01/2013 7:06 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: I have been working on sealing literally every penetration of the ceiling of our living space. I had a blower door test done last week, and the guy who did it was stunned at how well sealed our house was. Where does the make-up air for your kitchen vent hood and bath vents come from? Do you have any fuel-burning applicances in your house? Where does the make-up air for them come from? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Dan wrote: No fuel burning appliances in the house, the vents leak enough that if they are on make up air will be pulled from one of the others. No range hood. 30 years ago we had a salesman show us his furnace vent device that looked like a vent tee that had a damper in the tee. It was supposed to reduced the amount of flue combustion air being drawn inside the house. As the flue heats, greater air volume is sucked up the flue, drawn from inside the house, making the flue somewhat a jet. He also talked about providing outside air to the furnace for combustion. As the air is heated, it expands, thus causing a positive pressure inside the house. Interesting concepts, if they worked. Did anyone else get this salesman back years ago? The concepts seemed sound, as do all salesmen. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 21:25:30 -0500 Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: The place is not completely sealed, by any means. No fuel burning appliances in the house, the vents leak enough that if they are on make up air will be pulled from one of the others. No range hood. My biggest concern was sealing the ceiling plane between the living space and attic. When I install the solar powered attic fan I don't want it depressurizing the attic to the point where it could pull conditioned air from the living space. I have plenty of soffit vents and existing roof vents to exceed code and building requirements, so I am good there. Sounds like you are good to go, then. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Rick Knoble wrote: On Jan 24, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: I also put fiberglass insulation around the band board, which had not been done. Very much warmer all of a sudden, wish I'd done this 40 years ago when I first thought of it. I'm not the only procrastinator here. Thanks. I feel better now. I bought fiberglass for the base boards in November. Hope to get it installed this weekend. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
On 24/01/2013 7:06 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: I have been working on sealing literally every penetration of the ceiling of our living space. I had a blower door test done last week, and the guy who did it was stunned at how well sealed our house was. I had not a chance to seal the recessed fixtures that are in our kitchen, which I just did this past weekend. I want to get more insulation blown into the attic, but I'm not sure that it makes good fiscal sense, as we already have enough for about R-30, I believe. Now that the ceiling is sealed, I'll be putting in a solar powered attic fan to try and reduce attic temperatures during cooling season. Our ductwork runs in the attic, so anything I can do to reduce temperatures in there should help our AC. Dan Tell me more about the solar powered attic fan. I have a thermostatically controlled fan in the roof but it is electric and not solar. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
At 06:43 PM 1/24/2013, Brian Toscano wrote: The lack of insulation makes for old house charm. :-) Back then fiber glass didn't exist. In some rural areas, houses were clapboard siding, studs, and tongue and groove or simply pine boards on the inside with a tin roof. Exterior clapboards may never have been painted. Wood stove inside, possibly serving double duty as a stove. The ground level floor could have been supported with slabbed tree trunks, leveled with a bottle. Sounds about like our WV house when my wife and I arrived in 1981. There was no insulation. The walls were leaky clapboards tacked on top of what a neighbor called Yankee board. This is a double layer of rough cut vertical boards. In this system you start construction by nailing together a floor grid of 2 X 4s balanced on stone piles. The walls are made by laying boards on the ground side by side, then laying another layer of boards on top to cover the cracks and nailing the two together. A row of people lift up what amounts to a board curtain and walk it up to become a wall of the house. It is propped in place while other walls are similarly made, tipped up, and the corners nailed. The top of the walls are notched for 2 X 4s that form the roof. More boards on that and then galvanized metal. Holes are cut for store bought doors and windows. All lumber must be fresh from the mill since only green hardwood can be nailed without drilling. When we got the place it was leaning a bit here and there but basically sound after 60-80 years. So we added another layer in the form of salvaged 2 X 4s attached horizontally to the outside by 60d nails driven from the inside. That gave us some room for insulation and then board and batten on top of that. It has been great. Dave Gilmore, Cameron WV Glory is fleeting by obscurity is forever. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
That's great Dave. I hadn't heard of that exact construction technique before. On many farms its not uncommon to find an old rusty 18-24 radial saw blade on the property either. They likely built the house out of trees on the property. The blade was likely either powered by an early gasoline engine. A friend of mine up in PA has a leather belt and saw that he can power from one of his old Farmalls. On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 7:03 PM, David Kristin Gilmore dandkgilm...@frontier.com wrote: At 06:43 PM 1/24/2013, Brian Toscano wrote: The lack of insulation makes for old house charm. :-) Back then fiber glass didn't exist. In some rural areas, houses were clapboard siding, studs, and tongue and groove or simply pine boards on the inside with a tin roof. Exterior clapboards may never have been painted. Wood stove inside, possibly serving double duty as a stove. The ground level floor could have been supported with slabbed tree trunks, leveled with a bottle. Sounds about like our WV house when my wife and I arrived in 1981. There was no insulation. The walls were leaky clapboards tacked on top of what a neighbor called Yankee board. This is a double layer of rough cut vertical boards. In this system you start construction by nailing together a floor grid of 2 X 4s balanced on stone piles. The walls are made by laying boards on the ground side by side, then laying another layer of boards on top to cover the cracks and nailing the two together. A row of people lift up what amounts to a board curtain and walk it up to become a wall of the house. It is propped in place while other walls are similarly made, tipped up, and the corners nailed. The top of the walls are notched for 2 X 4s that form the roof. More boards on that and then galvanized metal. Holes are cut for store bought doors and windows. All lumber must be fresh from the mill since only green hardwood can be nailed without drilling. When we got the place it was leaning a bit here and there but basically sound after 60-80 years. So we added another layer in the form of salvaged 2 X 4s attached horizontally to the outside by 60d nails driven from the inside. That gave us some room for insulation and then board and batten on top of that. It has been great. Dave Gilmore, Cameron WV Glory is fleeting by obscurity is forever. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
I have had one for a dozen years. It really is whisper quiet to the point summer a few years ago I had to crawl into the attic to make sure it was really running because the upper story of the house was not cooling as much. Lack of a breeze, but the fan was still going. It does drop temp about 5C. Also really good for winter at pulling moisture out of the attic from condensation. Scared the tar out of the contractor when he opened the box the day he installed it. Pealed back the cardboard and this thing gets some photons and the fans kicks and. Round top with the panel embedded in it looked like some UFO about to take off. He dropped it right back in the box and slammed it shut. Then figured it what was going on and looked sheepish the rest of the time he drug it to the roof and installed it. clay On Jan 25, 2013, at 9:39 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: On 24/01/2013 7:06 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: I have been working on sealing literally every penetration of the ceiling of our living space. I had a blower door test done last week, and the guy who did it was stunned at how well sealed our house was. I had not a chance to seal the recessed fixtures that are in our kitchen, which I just did this past weekend. I want to get more insulation blown into the attic, but I'm not sure that it makes good fiscal sense, as we already have enough for about R-30, I believe. Now that the ceiling is sealed, I'll be putting in a solar powered attic fan to try and reduce attic temperatures during cooling season. Our ductwork runs in the attic, so anything I can do to reduce temperatures in there should help our AC. Dan Tell me more about the solar powered attic fan. I have a thermostatically controlled fan in the roof but it is electric and not solar. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
On 24/01/2013 7:06 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: I have been working on sealing literally every penetration of the ceiling of our living space. I had a blower door test done last week, and the guy who did it was stunned at how well sealed our house was. Where does the make-up air for your kitchen vent hood and bath vents come from? Do you have any fuel-burning applicances in your house? Where does the make-up air for them come from? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Craig wrote: Where does the make-up air for your kitchen vent hood and bath vents come from? Do you have any fuel-burning applicances in your house? Where does the make-up air for them come from? Good points. Dan had a heat pump water heater, but I think that was at a previous house. If you can turn on a vent fan and pull negative pressure on a water heater's draft hood, CO poisoning is a very real possibility. And, BTW, common commercially available CO detectors are basically worthless. Who wants to learn that the house has been over 70ppm CO for over 8 hours when the alarm first goes off, especially when 10ppm can be harmful to small children and the elderly? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com