subject:"Re\: \[MBZ\] OT Cold weather issues"

But then I'd also need a hot water heater. My current furnace also does our 
domestic hot water...

-Curt

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 23:33:34 -0500
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Message-ID: 5108a29e.1040...@voyager.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Curt Raymond wrote:
 Enough to get me really working on conservation. $3.70/gal at our last 
 fillup. Diesel went to $4.04 this morning up from $3.99 yesterday.

 I'm working on getting our mortgage refinanced under HARP 2, if I can make 
 that happen I'll finish the insulation on a faster schedule and we'll be 
 looking at a ground loop heat pump sooner rather than later.

Blown cellulose is practically free, as in less than a penny per R-point per 
square foot. R-38 in a 1000 square foot ceiling is under $300.
Lowes rents a blower for $20 a day or free with xx bags of insulation.
Menards has better blowers with on-off switch at the end of the hose so you can 
control it from the attic, I think they get $35 for the first 3 hours.

On the heat pump issue:
An air source heat pump with inverter driven DC compressor motor (like the 
better mini splits or Carrier's Greenspeed central units) isn't that much more 
expensive to run than ground source but should be a lot cheaper to install. 
Ground source's main advantage is that output doesn't drop off when the home's 
heat needs are greatest.

With 70? indoor temp, my 3/4 ton Fujitsu mini split is rated at 12,000 BTU/hr 
at 
47? outdoor temp but only 6840 BTU/hr at 5?. 6840 btu from 710 watts is still 
2.8 BTU of heat for every BTU of electricity, not too far off from the 4.0 
rating at 47?. That little one room Fuji can tolerably heat my 1200sq foot 
house 
when it's 30?F outside. Right now it's 56 out and it's easily heating the house 
quite evenly, about 74? in the room with the heat pump and 71? in the bedrooms 
at the other end.

I'd be surprised if the coefficient of performance of a $25,000 ground source 
system is over 5.0. It might take a lot of years for the difference between a 
COP of 5 and a COP of 3 to 4 to pay for the ground source unit.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

I think the point Jamie is making is that as the government has already 
(foolishly in my opinion but let that bide) gotten itself into the flood 
insurance business it must (at least for now) pay out to those people who have 
signed contracts.

If we want to get the government out of the flood insurance business (which I 
do) we can do that but we must abide by the contracts of yesterday until such 
time as we can get out from under them.

-Curt

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 23:15:50 -0600
From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Message-ID: a0624084bcd2e5cc2c402@[192.168.0.104]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed

The federal government should not be in the business of flood insurance.
  If State Farm, etc wants to offer flood insurance they can be my guest.


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.comwrote:

  So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums
   should be paid for their loss?
  

Exactly which of the enumerated powers in the US Constitution says 
congress shall offer flood insurance?

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Dieselhead


Agreed   But the goobermint needs to get out of the ins biz.


I think the point Jamie is making is that as the government has 
already (foolishly in my opinion but let that bide) gotten itself 
into the flood insurance business it must (at least for now) pay out 
to those people who have signed contracts.


If we want to get the government out of the flood insurance business 
(which I do) we can do that but we must abide by the contracts of 
yesterday until such time as we can get out from under them.


-Curt

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 23:15:50 -0600
From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Message-ID: a0624084bcd2e5cc2c402@[192.168.0.104]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed


The federal government should not be in the business of flood insurance.
  If State Farm, etc wants to offer flood insurance they can be my guest.


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.comwrote:


  So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums

   should be paid for their loss?
  


Exactly which of the enumerated powers in the US Constitution says
congress shall offer flood insurance?


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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

Exactly.  I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal government as a 
Perversion of the law.  Government is taking money by force from one group of 
people and giving it to another.  That is why we have gridlock in WDC, the 
fight is about who gets to steal money from who now.

-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey
shore.  You've been there?  How about the rest of our state?  What
makes
you think we should not be supported by our government during a time
of
catastrophe like any other part of the country?

Jaime

Ah!  There is el problemo you think we should not be supported 
by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere else, 
but where in the United States constitution, does it say 
Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the populace to 
reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water?   The real 
question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of 
goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution.

I grew up near a very large body of water.  When winds and floods 
came, people generally washed out their house, threw out inexpensive 
furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used 
furniture and went back to work.  Or else they moved out and left the 
remains to rot or be sold.   People who wished some protection bought 
insecurance.   Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint money.

When lava flowed over Kalapana and destroyed most of the village and 
most of Kalapana gardens, some people's insecurance paid, and some 
insecurance companies took the weasel route, hanging their customers 
out to dry.  There was no goobermint money, not even from the pipples 
republik of hawaii.

When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by Hawaiian 
Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds 
available to borrow at low interest.  Instead of sucking it up and 
paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of Hawaii 
and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's 
obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay dividends 
to its shareholders   That was such blatant irresponsibility it was 
staggering at the time.

Only when a region whose inhabitants overwhelmingly vote for the 
Party, does the goobermint think of getting outside their 
constitutional powers to seize funds from citizens (or print more, 
thereby obligating future taxpayers to the debt) to play Santa to the 
Party constituency.  Katrina is case in point.  nawlins whined and 
goobermint was forced to extort even more funds to hand out to the 
Party constituency.  Next door, Mizzippi got clobbered worse, but 
most people went about the business of taking care of themselve, so 
did not get the vast candy stores from the goobermint.  Yes, 
goobermint entities got goobermint handouts, but by and large the 
citizenry got little compared on  a per capita basis to nawlins.

Reference:  read The Law

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Andrew Strasfogel

No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy.

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote:
 Exactly.  I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal government as a 
 Perversion of the law.  Government is taking money by force from one group of 
 people and giving it to another.  That is why we have gridlock in WDC, the 
 fight is about who gets to steal money from who now.

 --
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey
shore.  You've been there?  How about the rest of our state?  What
makes
you think we should not be supported by our government during a time
of
catastrophe like any other part of the country?

Jaime

Ah!  There is el problemo you think we should not be supported
by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere else,
but where in the United States constitution, does it say
Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the populace to
reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water?   The real
question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of
goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution.

I grew up near a very large body of water.  When winds and floods
came, people generally washed out their house, threw out inexpensive
furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used
furniture and went back to work.  Or else they moved out and left the
remains to rot or be sold.   People who wished some protection bought
insecurance.   Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint money.

When lava flowed over Kalapana and destroyed most of the village and
most of Kalapana gardens, some people's insecurance paid, and some
insecurance companies took the weasel route, hanging their customers
out to dry.  There was no goobermint money, not even from the pipples
republik of hawaii.

When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by Hawaiian
Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds
available to borrow at low interest.  Instead of sucking it up and
paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of Hawaii
and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's
obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay dividends
to its shareholders   That was such blatant irresponsibility it was
staggering at the time.

Only when a region whose inhabitants overwhelmingly vote for the
Party, does the goobermint think of getting outside their
constitutional powers to seize funds from citizens (or print more,
thereby obligating future taxpayers to the debt) to play Santa to the
Party constituency.  Katrina is case in point.  nawlins whined and
goobermint was forced to extort even more funds to hand out to the
Party constituency.  Next door, Mizzippi got clobbered worse, but
most people went about the business of taking care of themselve, so
did not get the vast candy stores from the goobermint.  Yes,
goobermint entities got goobermint handouts, but by and large the
citizenry got little compared on  a per capita basis to nawlins.

Reference:  read The Law

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Craig

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:07:09 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel
astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

 No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy.

We don't have a democracy, we have a constitutional republic.
And yes, it is stealing.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Dieselhead


What exactly do you call taking money by force?




No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy.

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote:
 Exactly.  I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal 
government as a Perversion of the law.  Government is taking money 
by force from one group of people and giving it to another.  That 
is why we have gridlock in WDC, the fight is about who gets to 
steal money from who now.


 --
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC

  '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20
 




Most of the english speaking world outside the district of columbia 
call it stealing.


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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread G Mann

Democracy: Two wolves and One sheep voting on what's for dinner.
Republic: One well armed sheep inviting two wolves to eat grass.

I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and the
REPUBLIC for which it stands sound familiar perhaps? Or, has the misuse of
the word Democracy become so overwhelmingly prevalent that no Citizen can
remember?

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote:

 On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:07:09 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel
 astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

  No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy.

 We don't have a democracy, we have a constitutional republic.
 And yes, it is stealing.


 Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Mitch Haley


Curt Raymond wrote:

But then I'd also need a hot water heater. My current furnace also does our 
domestic hot water...


That must cost a fortune in the summer.
I paid something like $218 for a 40 gallon GE electric water heater at Home 
Depot last fall. Had to pay for 70' of 10ga wire and a 25 amp breaker, so around 
$300 total. It eliminated an air leak (aka chimney) that I was able to seal off 
now that the LP gas water heater was gone.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Mitch Haley


Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy.


Or, alternately, a Constitutional Republic if you can keep it.
We couldn't, hence the people who think it's right and proper that our 
government operate as a democracy.


Democracy: Two wolves and one sheep deciding what's for dinner by popular vote.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Brian Toscano

I thought they used the word REPUBLIC in the pledge because it sounded
better. ;)



On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy.


 Or, alternately, a Constitutional Republic if you can keep it.
 We couldn't, hence the people who think it's right and proper that our
 government operate as a democracy.

 Democracy: Two wolves and one sheep deciding what's for dinner by popular
 vote.

 Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

Armed IRS agents will confiscate property, seize bank accounts, escort you to 
federal custody.

-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

What exactly do you call taking money by force?



No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy.

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon
meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote:
  Exactly.  I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal 
government as a Perversion of the law.  Government is taking money 
by force from one group of people and giving it to another.  That 
is why we have gridlock in WDC, the fight is about who gets to 
steal money from who now.

  --
  Max Dillon
  Charleston SC
   '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20
  



Most of the english speaking world outside the district of columbia 
call it stealing.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Jaime Kopchinski

But isn't this how government must work at a fundamental level? Take taxes
from all, distribute it where its needed?

- I don't have kids in school, which should my taxes go to pay for it? If
you have kids, thats your problem to pay for it.
- Nobody is attacking me or my family, I shouldn't have to pay for a war.
- I don't care if the interstate highway you take to work in your state
needs repair, I don't use it so I'm not paying for it.

Seems pretty absurd, no?

Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far. (Except maybe with the
crowd on this list!)

If you really feel your being stolen from, I kindly ask you do either do
something about it, or leave and go try to find somewhere that suits you.
Perhaps you can find a place with no taxes and where nobody will do
anything for you at all, seeing as you're all so self sufficient Maybe
you can gather some ideas from these folks:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html#ixzz2JKca7yGi

Jaime

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote:

Exactly. I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal government as
a Perversion of the law. Government is taking money by force from one
group of people and giving it to another. That is why we have gridlock in
WDC, the fight is about who gets to steal money from who now.

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey
shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What
makes
you think we should not be supported by our government during a time
of
catastrophe like any other part of the country?

Jaime

Ah! There is el problemo you think we should not be supported
by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere else,
but where in the United States constitution, does it say
Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the populace to
reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water? The real
question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of
goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution.

I grew up near a very large body of water. When winds and floods
came, people generally washed out their house, threw out inexpensive
furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used
furniture and went back to work. Or else they moved out and left the
remains to rot or be sold. People who wished some protection bought
insecurance. Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint money.

When lava flowed over Kalapana and destroyed most of the village and
most of Kalapana gardens, some people's insecurance paid, and some
insecurance companies took the weasel route, hanging their customers
out to dry. There was no goobermint money, not even from the pipples
republik of hawaii.

When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by Hawaiian
Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds
available to borrow at low interest. Instead of sucking it up and
paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of Hawaii
and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's
obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay dividends
to its shareholders That was such blatant irresponsibility it was
staggering at the time.

Only when a region whose inhabitants overwhelmingly vote for the
Party, does the goobermint think of getting outside their
constitutional powers to seize funds from citizens (or print more,
thereby obligating future taxpayers to the debt) to play Santa to the
Party constituency. Katrina is case in point. nawlins whined and
goobermint was forced to extort even more funds to hand out to the
Party constituency. Next door, Mizzippi got clobbered worse, but
most people went about the business of taking care of themselve, so
did not get the vast candy stores from the goobermint. Yes,
goobermint entities got goobermint handouts, but by and large the
citizenry got little compared on a per capita basis to nawlins.

Reference: read The Law

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--
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

No, this is not how our government is supposed to work. For the first hundred
years, our government did not steal money for the purpose of redistribution.

You should read Davy Crockett's speech to Congress:

http://www.fee.org/library/detail/not-your-to-give-2

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote:

But isn't this how government must work at a fundamental level? Take
taxes
from all, distribute it where its needed?

- I don't have kids in school, which should my taxes go to pay for it?
If
you have kids, thats your problem to pay for it.
- Nobody is attacking me or my family, I shouldn't have to pay for a
war.
- I don't care if the interstate highway you take to work in your state
needs repair, I don't use it so I'm not paying for it.

Seems pretty absurd, no?

Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far. (Except maybe with the
crowd on this list!)

If you really feel your being stolen from, I kindly ask you do either
do
something about it, or leave and go try to find somewhere that suits
you.
Perhaps you can find a place with no taxes and where nobody will do
anything for you at all, seeing as you're all so self sufficient
Maybe
you can gather some ideas from these folks:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html#ixzz2JKca7yGi

Jaime

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon
meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote:

Exactly. I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal
government as
a Perversion of the law. Government is taking money by force from
one
group of people and giving it to another. That is why we have
gridlock in
WDC, the fight is about who gets to steal money from who now.

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the
Jersey
shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What
makes
you think we should not be supported by our government during a
time
of
catastrophe like any other part of the country?

Jaime

Ah! There is el problemo you think we should not be supported
by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere else,
but where in the United States constitution, does it say
Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the populace
to
reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water? The real
question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of
goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution.

I grew up near a very large body of water. When winds and floods
came, people generally washed out their house, threw out inexpensive
furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used
furniture and went back to work. Or else they moved out and left
the
remains to rot or be sold. People who wished some protection
bought
insecurance. Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint money.

When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by
Hawaiian
Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds
available to borrow at low interest. Instead of sucking it up and
paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of Hawaii
and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's
obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay dividends
to its shareholders That was such blatant irresponsibility it was
staggering at the time.

Only when a region whose inhabitants overwhelmingly vote for the
Party, does the goobermint think of getting outside their
constitutional powers to seize funds from citizens (or print more,
thereby obligating future taxpayers to the debt) to play Santa to
the
Party constituency. Katrina is case in point. nawlins whined and
goobermint was forced to extort even more funds to hand out to the
Party constituency. Next door, Mizzippi got clobbered worse, but
most people went about the business of taking care of themselve, so
did not get the vast candy stores from the goobermint. Yes,
goobermint entities got goobermint handouts, but by and large the
citizenry got little compared on a per capita basis to nawlins.

Reference: read The Law

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Mountain Man

Jaime wrote:
 Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far.  (Except maybe with the
 crowd on this list!)

All politics is religion.
All politics is close minded incapable of being convinced otherwise.
We are
I forgot, this is not banned.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues



Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote:

But isn't this how government must work at a fundamental level?  Take
taxes
from all, distribute it where its needed?


Not according to the Constitution.

- I don't have kids in school, which should my taxes go to pay for it? 
If
you have kids, thats your problem to pay for it.

Your local schools are paid from local taxes, I'm talking about the federal 
government.

- Nobody is attacking me or my family, I shouldn't have to pay for a
war.

Except the Constitution requires our federal government to provide for national 
defense.

- I don't care if the interstate highway you take to work in your state
needs repair, I don't use it so I'm not paying for it.


Infrastructure spending is not what we're talking about.  

Seems pretty absurd, no?


Sure, when you attempt to set up a bunch of straw man arguments to knock down.

Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far.  (Except maybe with the
crowd on this list!)


Um, no comment.

If you really feel your being stolen from, I kindly ask you do either
do
something about it, or leave and go try to find somewhere that suits
you.

I am doing something; I vote, I write my elected representatives, and I argue 
my reasoned position every chance I can.  If you can't stomach that, the 
problem seems to be yours.

-Max


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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Jaime Kopchinski

Its a nice thing to read, but clearly not relevant today. I'm not happy
with a lot going on in Government today, but I do like having highways,
schools, police, a fire department, and the national guard when the shit
hits the fan. (Like when a hurricane blows through, for example). I pay
taxes so I can benefit from these things when I need them. Seems fair to
me.

Can we go back to talking about Mercedes now? Today I found a radiator
shop who is going to clean up and test the radiator from my W109 for $85,
and have it done tomorrow. This great deal offsets the $80 I had to spend
on a meter of giant cooling hose for the same car, although I only need
about 15cm of it.

Jaime

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote:

No, this is not how our government is supposed to work. For the first
hundred years, our government did not steal money for the purpose of
redistribution.

You should read Davy Crockett's speech to Congress:

http://www.fee.org/library/detail/not-your-to-give-2

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote:

But isn't this how government must work at a fundamental level? Take
taxes
from all, distribute it where its needed?

- I don't have kids in school, which should my taxes go to pay for it?
If
you have kids, thats your problem to pay for it.
- Nobody is attacking me or my family, I shouldn't have to pay for a
war.
- I don't care if the interstate highway you take to work in your state
needs repair, I don't use it so I'm not paying for it.

Seems pretty absurd, no?

Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far. (Except maybe with the
crowd on this list!)

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html#ixzz2JKca7yGi

Jaime

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon
meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote:

Exactly. I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal
government as
a Perversion of the law. Government is taking money by force from
one
group of people and giving it to another. That is why we have
gridlock in
WDC, the fight is about who gets to steal money from who now.

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the
Jersey
shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state? What
makes
you think we should not be supported by our government during a
time
of
catastrophe like any other part of the country?

Jaime

Ah! There is el problemo you think we should not be supported
by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere else,
but where in the United States constitution, does it say
Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the populace
to
reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water? The real
question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of
goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution.

I grew up near a very large body of water. When winds and floods
came, people generally washed out their house, threw out inexpensive
furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used
furniture and went back to work. Or else they moved out and left
the
remains to rot or be sold. People who wished some protection
bought
insecurance. Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint money.

When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by
Hawaiian
Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds
available to borrow at low interest. Instead of sucking it up and
paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of Hawaii
and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's
obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay dividends
to its shareholders That was such blatant irresponsibility it was
staggering at the time.

Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Brian Toscano


  I pay
 taxes so I can benefit from these things when I need them.  Seems fair to
 me.

Sounds like you are mixing up taxes and insurance premiums.

Glad to hear the radiator repair was not expensive!
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

Aye, we seem to have found another topic to stir up strong opinions.

I second your motion, will try to get back to our regular programming...
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote:

Its a nice thing to read, but clearly not relevant today. I'm not
happy
with a lot going on in Government today, but I do like having highways,
schools, police, a fire department, and the national guard when the
shit
hits the fan. (Like when a hurricane blows through, for example). I
pay
taxes so I can benefit from these things when I need them. Seems fair
to
me.

Can we go back to talking about Mercedes now? Today I found a radiator
shop who is going to clean up and test the radiator from my W109 for
$85,
and have it done tomorrow. This great deal offsets the $80 I had to
spend
on a meter of giant cooling hose for the same car, although I only need
about 15cm of it.

Jaime

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Max Dillon
meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote:

No, this is not how our government is supposed to work. For the
first
hundred years, our government did not steal money for the purpose of
redistribution.

You should read Davy Crockett's speech to Congress:

http://www.fee.org/library/detail/not-your-to-give-2

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote:

But isn't this how government must work at a fundamental level?
Take
taxes
from all, distribute it where its needed?

- I don't have kids in school, which should my taxes go to pay for
it?
If
you have kids, thats your problem to pay for it.
- Nobody is attacking me or my family, I shouldn't have to pay for a
war.
- I don't care if the interstate highway you take to work in your
state
needs repair, I don't use it so I'm not paying for it.

Seems pretty absurd, no?

Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far. (Except maybe with
the
crowd on this list!)

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html#ixzz2JKca7yGi

Jaime

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Max Dillon
meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote:

Exactly. I view all entitlements and hand outs from federal
government as
a Perversion of the law. Government is taking money by force from
one
group of people and giving it to another. That is why we have
gridlock in
WDC, the fight is about who gets to steal money from who now.

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20

Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the
Jersey
shore. You've been there? How about the rest of our state?
What
makes
you think we should not be supported by our government during a
time
of
catastrophe like any other part of the country?

Jaime

Ah! There is el problemo you think we should not be
supported
by our governmentNothing against neu Joisey, or anywhere
else,
but where in the United States constitution, does it say
Congresscritters have the right to extort money from the
populace
to
reimburse [rich] folks who build too close to water? The real
question is how to bring the crongreescritters and the rest of
goobermint back within the enumerated powers of the constitution.

I grew up near a very large body of water. When winds and floods
came, people generally washed out their house, threw out
inexpensive
furniture, washed furniture made of real wood, bought some used
furniture and went back to work. Or else they moved out and left
the
remains to rot or be sold. People who wished some protection
bought
insecurance. Nobody even thought of asking for goobermint
money.

When lava flowed over Kalapana and destroyed most of the village
and
most of Kalapana gardens, some people's insecurance paid, and
some
insecurance companies took the weasel route, hanging their
customers
out to dry. There was no goobermint money, not even from the
pipples
republik of hawaii.

When Iniki wiped out Kauai, the largest insurer was owned by
Hawaiian
Electric, (helco) who as a utility has almost unlimited funds
available to borrow at low interest. Instead of sucking it up
and
paying their insured, HELCO went to the pipples Republik of
Hawaii
and begged them to rob the populace to honor the company's
obligations to their insured, because HELCO wanted to pay
dividends
to its shareholders That was such blatant irresponsibility it
was
staggering at the time.

Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

Why would it cost a fortune? Its basically an on-demand hot water heater that 
also heats our house.

We buy around 200 gallons of oil in January, March and October. This year we 
went much farther into January than I'd expected us to which I'm attributing to 
the added insulation in the attic. With more insulation next year I'm aiming 
for the winter fill to be in February, the spring fill to be in April and the 
October fill to be small or maybe get skipped. Then I start to imagine what we 
could get away with if we had an 85% efficient burner instead of our old 65% 
unit.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:28:07 -0500
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Message-ID: 51099e77.8020...@voyager.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Curt Raymond wrote:
 But then I'd also need a hot water heater. My current furnace also does our 
 domestic hot water...

That must cost a fortune in the summer.
I paid something like $218 for a 40 gallon GE electric water heater at Home 
Depot last fall. Had to pay for 70' of 10ga wire and a 25 amp breaker, so 
around 
$300 total. It eliminated an air leak (aka chimney) that I was able to seal off 
now that the LP gas water heater was gone.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

Jamie all your examples clearly constitute a public good. Putting the 
government into the flood insurance business so fools can build houses too 
close to the ocean clearly is not...

I don't mind paying for the public good, I've made good use of interstate 
highways.

Of course I don't think people should get a tax break for breeding either. They 
use MORE government services, not less.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:38:19 -0500
From: Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Message-ID:
CACY-bAKV_JtKpzmFb+J61EGb1ivK-x5x=yqplxgguby0x9m...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

But isn't this how government must work at a fundamental level?  Take taxes
from all, distribute it where its needed?

- I don't have kids in school, which should my taxes go to pay for it?  If
you have kids, thats your problem to pay for it.
- Nobody is attacking me or my family, I shouldn't have to pay for a war.
- I don't care if the interstate highway you take to work in your state
needs repair, I don't use it so I'm not paying for it.

Seems pretty absurd, no?

Closed minded extreem ideas don't go very far.  (Except maybe with the
crowd on this list!)

If you really feel your being stolen from, I kindly ask you do either do
something about it, or leave and go try to find somewhere that suits you.
Perhaps you can find a place with no taxes and where nobody will do
anything for you at all, seeing as you're all so self sufficient   Maybe
you can gather some ideas from these folks:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html#ixzz2JKca7yGi

Jaime

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Gerry Archer

- Original Message - 
From: Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

I thought they used the word REPUBLIC in the pledge because it sounded
better. ;)

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

No one is stealing - it's called representative democracy.

Or, alternately, a Constitutional Republic if you can keep it.
We couldn't, hence the people who think it's right and proper that our
government operate as a democracy.

Democracy: Two wolves and one sheep deciding what's for dinner by popular
vote.
Mitch.

--
Politically, the U.S. is considered a federal republic:

Currently there are a very large number of republics in the world. A 
republican form of government can be combined with many different kinds of 
economy and democracy. Some examples for certain forms of republic are:

USA, Germany are federal republics governed by representative democracy, in 
which the states play a crucial role.
Switzerland is a confederal republic governed by a combination of 
representative democracy and direct democracy.
Russia is a federation of semi-autonomous republics (states) and directly 
ruled provinces.

Iran is a theocratic republic.

Historic Republics:
Sparta (c. late 7th Century BC-146 BC)
Athens Only under Solon.
The Roman Republic (509 BC-c.44 BC)
Carthage (308 BC-146 BC)
The Republic of Venice (c.9th Century-1797)
The French Republic (1792-1804)
The Republic of Texas (1836-1845)
The Commonwealth of England (1649-1660)
The Republic of the Seven United Netherlands (1581-1795)
The Soviet Union (1917-1991) was a federal republic.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Democratic_republic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_republic

In simple terms, the founding fathers who wrote the U.S. constitution wanted 
the states to handle their own domestic problems, thereby leaving the 
federal government to deal with matters that affected all the states; 
defense, foreign trade, etc.  States rights would be the current version 
of the founders requirements IMO.

As you can see from the links, republic has become a somewhat meaningless 
term; especially regarding citizens rights; due to the varied forms in which 
it has existed since Grecian times.

We may see a considerable change in American constitutional government in 
future elections due to one recent ruling:  The right of foreign 
corporations, individuals, and governments to contribute relatively 
unlimited amounts of money to American candidates political campaigns.
Gerry 

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Jaime Kopchinski

You've got it, Gerry... the problem is where the campaign money comes from,
but its not the foreign sources, its the unlimited amounts pouring in from
anonymous super wealthy americans.  An elite few are controlling the
direction of this country.  This is what is really costing us our freedom
and reducing influence of the average voter.  This is what all of us should
be outraged about and share opinions about!


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.comwrote:


 We may see a considerable change in American constitutional government
 in future elections due to one recent ruling:  The right of foreign
 corporations, individuals, and governments to contribute relatively
 unlimited amounts of money to American candidates political campaigns.
 Gerry





-- 
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-30 Thread Scott Ritchey


The main function of money in politics is to buy communications.  But in
addition to paid political messages, the media (radio, TV, and newspapers)
have great influence and that's all off the books.  It seems to me that
the media has taken sides, and not just in the editorial spaces.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Jaime
Kopchinski
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:11 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

You've got it, Gerry... the problem is where the campaign money comes from,
but its not the foreign sources, its the unlimited amounts pouring in from
anonymous super wealthy americans.  An elite few are controlling the
direction of this country.  This is what is really costing us our freedom
and reducing influence of the average voter.  This is what all of us should
be outraged about and share opinions about!


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Gerry Archer
arche...@embarqmail.comwrote:


 We may see a considerable change in American constitutional government
 in future elections due to one recent ruling:  The right of foreign
 corporations, individuals, and governments to contribute relatively
 unlimited amounts of money to American candidates political campaigns.
 Gerry





-- 
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Curt Raymond

No basements in Alaska?

In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel 
gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800
From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy 
Hugo Chavez.  When he dies, that subsidy goes away.

There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of.  Too much 
freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not 
allow it to be stored under ground anyway.

clay

On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

 You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil.

 In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of 
 baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its 
 much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air.

 -Curt

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Jim Cathey


No basements in Alaska?


Certainly not in the permafrost zones!

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues


Curt Raymond wrote:

No basements in Alaska?

In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel 
gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in trailers...


I suspect that anyplace where the average annual temps are freezing won't have 
basements. How much of Alaska meets that description I wouldn't pretend to know, 
but the word permafrost is used often in that state.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey
where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s.  In many cases, there was
no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution.  Slowly,
all these houses have had their tanks removed.  Lucky ones remove them
without any event.  Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an
environmental disaster.  Its enough of a problem here that you can get an
insurance policy to protect yourself.

We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big
red flag.  To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be
removed as a condition of sale.

My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed.  He had the tank
pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago.
He passed away and the family tried to sell the house.  They can't find any
documentation about what was done to the tank.  An inspection showed the
soil around the tank was contaminated.  The sale fell threw, and now the
house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills.
The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors.
The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil
involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of
houses, etc.  Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful.  But its been
vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast.

Jaime


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 No basements in Alaska?

 In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel
 gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in
 trailers...


 -Curt

 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800
 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
 Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our
 buddy Hugo Chavez.  When he dies, that subsidy goes away.

 There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of.  Too
 much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that
 do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway.

 clay

 On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

  You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil.
 
  In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of
 baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its
 much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot
 air.
 
  -Curt

 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com




-- 
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com/
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

Jaime,

How did they discover the tank and the leak?  Disclosure - has there ever
been an underground oil tank?

I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that pumped
and filled with sand.  That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch.  The
house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago.

On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote:

 Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey
 where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s.  In many cases, there was
 no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution.  Slowly,
 all these houses have had their tanks removed.  Lucky ones remove them
 without any event.  Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an
 environmental disaster.  Its enough of a problem here that you can get an
 insurance policy to protect yourself.

 We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big
 red flag.  To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be
 removed as a condition of sale.

 My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed.  He had the tank
 pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago.
 He passed away and the family tried to sell the house.  They can't find any
 documentation about what was done to the tank.  An inspection showed the
 soil around the tank was contaminated.  The sale fell threw, and now the
 house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills.
 The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors.
 The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil
 involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of
 houses, etc.  Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful.  But its been
 vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast.

 Jaime


 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond 
 curtlud...@yahoo.comjavascript:;
 wrote:

  No basements in Alaska?
 
  In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel
  gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in
  trailers...
 
 
  -Curt
 
  Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800
  From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:;
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:;
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
  Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.netjavascript:;
 
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 
  A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our
  buddy Hugo Chavez.  When he dies, that subsidy goes away.
 
  There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of.  Too
  much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that
  do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway.
 
  clay
 
  On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
 
   You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil.
  
   In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of
  baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around.
 Its
  much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot
  air.
  
   -Curt
 
  ___
  http://www.okiebenz.com
  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 



 --
 Jaime Kopchinski
 http://www.jaimekop.com/
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds
of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the
basement, where was the old one, for example.  I think he had a small patch
in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it
away.

Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector.  We
just sold our house and the buyer requested one.  Our house was heated by
natural gas, but was built in 1937.  There was no evidence of oil having
been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call.  It was quite a
relief when we passed the test!

Jaime



On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote:

 Jaime,

 How did they discover the tank and the leak?  Disclosure - has there ever
 been an underground oil tank?

 I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that pumped
 and filled with sand.  That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch.  The
 house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago.

 On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote:

  Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey
  where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s.  In many cases, there
 was
  no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution.  Slowly,
  all these houses have had their tanks removed.  Lucky ones remove them
  without any event.  Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an
  environmental disaster.  Its enough of a problem here that you can get an
  insurance policy to protect yourself.
 
  We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big
  red flag.  To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be
  removed as a condition of sale.
 
  My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed.  He had the tank
  pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago.
  He passed away and the family tried to sell the house.  They can't find
 any
  documentation about what was done to the tank.  An inspection showed the
  soil around the tank was contaminated.  The sale fell threw, and now the
  house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the
 bills.
  The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors.
  The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil
  involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of
  houses, etc.  Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful.  But its
 been
  vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast.
 
  Jaime
 
 
  On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com
 javascript:;
  wrote:
 
   No basements in Alaska?
  
   In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with
 fuel
   gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in
   trailers...
  
  
   -Curt
  
   Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800
   From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:;
   To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:;
   Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
   Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net
 javascript:;
  
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  
   A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our
   buddy Hugo Chavez.  When he dies, that subsidy goes away.
  
   There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of.  Too
   much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations
 that
   do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway.
  
   clay
  
   On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
  
You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil.
   
In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form
 of
   baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around.
  Its
   much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for
 hot
   air.
   
-Curt
  
   ___
   http://www.okiebenz.com
   For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
   To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
  
   To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
   http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
  
 
 
 
  --
  Jaime Kopchinski
  http://www.jaimekop.com/
  ___
  http://www.okiebenz.com
  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com




-- 
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com

Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

I certainly don't blame the buyer for wanting to have their bases covered.
 It can be financial disaster in New Jersey.  Its just a shame that the
seller had it pumped and filled and had to deal with that.


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.comwrote:

 I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds
 of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the
 basement, where was the old one, for example.  I think he had a small patch
 in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it
 away.

 Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector.  We
 just sold our house and the buyer requested one.  Our house was heated by
 natural gas, but was built in 1937.  There was no evidence of oil having
 been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call.  It was quite a
 relief when we passed the test!

 Jaime




___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Andrew Strasfogel

This is called LUST

Leaking Underground Storage Tanks



On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote:
 I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds
 of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the
 basement, where was the old one, for example.  I think he had a small patch
 in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it
 away.

 Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector.  We
 just sold our house and the buyer requested one.  Our house was heated by
 natural gas, but was built in 1937.  There was no evidence of oil having
 been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call.  It was quite a
 relief when we passed the test!

 Jaime



 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano 
 brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote:

 Jaime,

 How did they discover the tank and the leak?  Disclosure - has there ever
 been an underground oil tank?

 I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that pumped
 and filled with sand.  That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch.  The
 house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago.

 On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote:

  Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey
  where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s.  In many cases, there
 was
  no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution.  Slowly,
  all these houses have had their tanks removed.  Lucky ones remove them
  without any event.  Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an
  environmental disaster.  Its enough of a problem here that you can get an
  insurance policy to protect yourself.
 
  We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big
  red flag.  To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be
  removed as a condition of sale.
 
  My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed.  He had the tank
  pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago.
  He passed away and the family tried to sell the house.  They can't find
 any
  documentation about what was done to the tank.  An inspection showed the
  soil around the tank was contaminated.  The sale fell threw, and now the
  house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the
 bills.
  The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors.
  The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil
  involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of
  houses, etc.  Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful.  But its
 been
  vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast.
 
  Jaime
 
 
  On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com
 javascript:;
  wrote:
 
   No basements in Alaska?
  
   In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with
 fuel
   gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in
   trailers...
  
  
   -Curt
  
   Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800
   From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:;
   To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:;
   Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
   Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net
 javascript:;
  
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  
   A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our
   buddy Hugo Chavez.  When he dies, that subsidy goes away.
  
   There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of.  Too
   much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations
 that
   do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway.
  
   clay
  
   On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
  
You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil.
   
In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form
 of
   baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around.
  Its
   much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for
 hot
   air.
   
-Curt
  
   ___
   http://www.okiebenz.com
   For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
   To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
  
   To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
   http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
  
 
 
 
  --
  Jaime Kopchinski
  http://www.jaimekop.com/
  ___
  http://www.okiebenz.com
  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go

Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their
hands in everyone's pocket.  They'll make you spend tens of thousands of
dollars for a cup of heating oil.  But foolishly allow development on the
beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls through.
 The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm
concerned.


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.comwrote:

 This is called LUST

 Leaking Underground Storage Tanks



 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds
  of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the
  basement, where was the old one, for example.  I think he had a small
 patch
  in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it
  away.
 
  Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector.  We
  just sold our house and the buyer requested one.  Our house was heated by
  natural gas, but was built in 1937.  There was no evidence of oil having
  been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call.  It was quite a
  relief when we passed the test!
 
  Jaime
 
 
 
  On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Jaime,
 
  How did they discover the tank and the leak?  Disclosure - has there
 ever
  been an underground oil tank?
 
  I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that pumped
  and filled with sand.  That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch.
  The
  house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago.
 
  On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote:
 
   Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New
 Jersey
   where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s.  In many cases, there
  was
   no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution.
  Slowly,
   all these houses have had their tanks removed.  Lucky ones remove them
   without any event.  Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into
 an
   environmental disaster.  Its enough of a problem here that you can
 get an
   insurance policy to protect yourself.
  
   We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a
 big
   red flag.  To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be
   removed as a condition of sale.
  
   My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed.  He had the
 tank
   pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years
 ago.
   He passed away and the family tried to sell the house.  They can't
 find
  any
   documentation about what was done to the tank.  An inspection showed
 the
   soil around the tank was contaminated.  The sale fell threw, and now
 the
   house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the
  bills.
   The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the
 neighbors.
   The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated
 soil
   involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of
   houses, etc.  Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful.  But its
  been
   vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast.
  
   Jaime
  
  
   On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com
  javascript:;
   wrote:
  
No basements in Alaska?
   
In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with
  fuel
gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in
trailers...
   
   
-Curt
   
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800
From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:;
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:;
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net
  javascript:;
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
   
A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by
 our
buddy Hugo Chavez.  When he dies, that subsidy goes away.
   
There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of.
  Too
much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations
  that
do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway.
   
clay
   
On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
   
 You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil.

 In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the
 form
  of
baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam
 around.
   Its
much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts
 for
  hot
air.

 -Curt
   
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
   
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo

Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Alex Chamberlain

On Jan 29, 2013 8:16 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote:

 Underground heating oil tanks are
 very common here in northern New
 Jersey
 where many houses were built from
 the 1920s-50s.  In many cases, there
 was
 no natural gas service available and
 oil was the best solution.  Slowly,
 all these houses have had their tanks
 removed.  Lucky ones remove them
 without any event.  Unlucky ones
 have a leaking tank that turns into an
 environmental disaster.

Same situation with many prewar houses in the Pacific Northwest as well.
Been there, done that, have the scars in my checkbook to prove it.
Decommissioning of the old tank in a house I was trying to sell was a
euphemism for digging up half the driveway, collecting repeated soil
samples for lab analysis, wrangling with the city for signoffs, endless
back-and-forth with buyers...

Alex
___
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For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread OK Don

Isn't it doing so now???

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote:


  The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm
 concerned.





-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
1957 C182A
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey
shore.  You've been there?  How about the rest of our state?  What makes
you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of
catastrophe like any other part of the country?

Jaime



On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote:

 The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their
 hands in everyone's pocket.  They'll make you spend tens of thousands of
 dollars for a cup of heating oil.  But foolishly allow development on the
 beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls through.
  The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm
 concerned.


 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  This is called LUST
 
  Leaking Underground Storage Tanks
 
 
 
  On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com
  wrote:
   I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these
 kinds
   of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the
   basement, where was the old one, for example.  I think he had a small
  patch
   in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it
   away.
  
   Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector.
  We
   just sold our house and the buyer requested one.  Our house was heated
 by
   natural gas, but was built in 1937.  There was no evidence of oil
 having
   been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call.  It was quite a
   relief when we passed the test!
  
   Jaime
  
  
  
   On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano 
 brian.tosc...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  
   Jaime,
  
   How did they discover the tank and the leak?  Disclosure - has there
  ever
   been an underground oil tank?
  
   I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that
 pumped
   and filled with sand.  That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch.
   The
   house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago.
  
   On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote:
  
Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New
  Jersey
where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s.  In many cases,
 there
   was
no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution.
   Slowly,
all these houses have had their tanks removed.  Lucky ones remove
 them
without any event.  Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into
  an
environmental disaster.  Its enough of a problem here that you can
  get an
insurance policy to protect yourself.
   
We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is
 a
  big
red flag.  To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be
removed as a condition of sale.
   
My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed.  He had the
  tank
pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years
  ago.
He passed away and the family tried to sell the house.  They can't
  find
   any
documentation about what was done to the tank.  An inspection showed
  the
soil around the tank was contaminated.  The sale fell threw, and now
  the
house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the
   bills.
The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the
  neighbors.
The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated
  soil
involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of
houses, etc.  Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful.  But
 its
   been
vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast.
   
Jaime
   
   
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond 
 curtlud...@yahoo.com
   javascript:;
wrote:
   
 No basements in Alaska?

 In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems
 with
   fuel
 gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in
 trailers...


 -Curt

 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800
 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:;
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.comjavascript:;
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
 Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net
   javascript:;

 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten
 by
  our
 buddy Hugo Chavez.  When he dies, that subsidy goes away.

 There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of.
   Too
 much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie
 regulations
   that
 do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway.

 clay

 On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

  You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil.
 
  In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually

Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

Southern Jersey is very nice. Never been to the shore other than Atlantic City, 
but I never got out of the Trump casino when I was there.

Northern Jersey is pretty rough in places, but no worse that someplace like 
Gary, IN or East Chicago.

I think a lot of people would be surprised at what New Jersey is like away from 
the metro areas. Quite nice.

Dan

On Jan 29, 2013, at 1:22 PM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey
 shore.  You've been there?  How about the rest of our state?  What makes
 you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of
 catastrophe like any other part of the country?
 
 Jaime
 
 
 
 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Brian Toscano 
 brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote:
 
 The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their
 hands in everyone's pocket.  They'll make you spend tens of thousands of
 dollars for a cup of heating oil.  But foolishly allow development on the
 beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls through.
 The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm
 concerned.
 
 
 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 This is called LUST
 
 Leaking Underground Storage Tanks
 
 
 
 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these
 kinds
 of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the
 basement, where was the old one, for example.  I think he had a small
 patch
 in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it
 away.
 
 Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector.
 We

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

If New Jersey wants to rebuild its shore with its own money its fine with
me.  I lived in New Jersey for over 20 years.

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.comwrote:

 I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey
 shore.  You've been there?  How about the rest of our state?  What makes
 you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of
 catastrophe like any other part of the country?

 Jaime



 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their
  hands in everyone's pocket.  They'll make you spend tens of thousands of
  dollars for a cup of heating oil.  But foolishly allow development on the
  beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls through.
   The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as
 I'm
  concerned.
 
 
  On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel 
 astrasfo...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
   This is called LUST
  
   Leaking Underground Storage Tanks
  
  
  
   On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com
 
   wrote:
I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these
  kinds
of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in
 the
basement, where was the old one, for example.  I think he had a small
   patch
in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave
 it
away.
   
Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector.
   We
just sold our house and the buyer requested one.  Our house was
 heated
  by
natural gas, but was built in 1937.  There was no evidence of oil
  having
been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call.  It was quite a
relief when we passed the test!
   
Jaime
   
   
   
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano 
  brian.tosc...@gmail.com
   wrote:
   
Jaime,
   
How did they discover the tank and the leak?  Disclosure - has there
   ever
been an underground oil tank?
   
I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that
  pumped
and filled with sand.  That tank is under a concrete slab/front
 porch.
The
house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago.
   
On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote:
   
 Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New
   Jersey
 where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s.  In many cases,
  there
was
 no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution.
Slowly,
 all these houses have had their tanks removed.  Lucky ones remove
  them
 without any event.  Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns
 into
   an
 environmental disaster.  Its enough of a problem here that you can
   get an
 insurance policy to protect yourself.

 We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank
 is
  a
   big
 red flag.  To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to
 be
 removed as a condition of sale.

 My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed.  He had the
   tank
 pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15
 years
   ago.
 He passed away and the family tried to sell the house.  They can't
   find
any
 documentation about what was done to the tank.  An inspection
 showed
   the
 soil around the tank was contaminated.  The sale fell threw, and
 now
   the
 house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with
 the
bills.
 The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the
   neighbors.
 The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated
   soil
 involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation
 of
 houses, etc.  Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful.  But
  its
been
 vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast.

 Jaime


 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond 
  curtlud...@yahoo.com
javascript:;
 wrote:

  No basements in Alaska?
 
  In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems
  with
fuel
  gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live
 in
  trailers...
 
 
  -Curt
 
  Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800
  From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:;
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 javascript:;
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
  Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net
javascript:;
 
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 
  A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten
  by
   our
  buddy Hugo Chavez.  When he dies, that subsidy goes away.
 
  There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am

Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums
should be paid for their loss?


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote:

 If New Jersey wants to rebuild its shore with its own money its fine with
 me.  I lived in New Jersey for over 20 years.

 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  I'm surprised you seem to have so much hate and disgust for the Jersey
  shore.  You've been there?  How about the rest of our state?  What makes
  you think we should not be supported by our government during a time of
  catastrophe like any other part of the country?
 
  Jaime
 
 
 
  On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
   The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their
   hands in everyone's pocket.  They'll make you spend tens of thousands
 of
   dollars for a cup of heating oil.  But foolishly allow development on
 the
   beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls
 through.
The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as
  I'm
   concerned.
  
  
   On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel 
  astrasfo...@gmail.com
   wrote:
  
This is called LUST
   
Leaking Underground Storage Tanks
   
   
   
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski 
 jaime...@gmail.com
  
wrote:
 I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these
   kinds
 of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in
  the
 basement, where was the old one, for example.  I think he had a
 small
patch
 in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably
 gave
  it
 away.

 Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal
 detector.
We
 just sold our house and the buyer requested one.  Our house was
  heated
   by
 natural gas, but was built in 1937.  There was no evidence of oil
   having
 been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call.  It was
 quite a
 relief when we passed the test!

 Jaime



 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano 
   brian.tosc...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Jaime,

 How did they discover the tank and the leak?  Disclosure - has
 there
ever
 been an underground oil tank?

 I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that
   pumped
 and filled with sand.  That tank is under a concrete slab/front
  porch.
 The
 house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago.

 On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote:

  Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern
 New
Jersey
  where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s.  In many cases,
   there
 was
  no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution.
 Slowly,
  all these houses have had their tanks removed.  Lucky ones
 remove
   them
  without any event.  Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns
  into
an
  environmental disaster.  Its enough of a problem here that you
 can
get an
  insurance policy to protect yourself.
 
  We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank
  is
   a
big
  red flag.  To buy such a house, its common to request the tank
 to
  be
  removed as a condition of sale.
 
  My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed.  He had
 the
tank
  pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15
  years
ago.
  He passed away and the family tried to sell the house.  They
 can't
find
 any
  documentation about what was done to the tank.  An inspection
  showed
the
  soil around the tank was contaminated.  The sale fell threw, and
  now
the
  house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with
  the
 bills.
  The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the
neighbors.
  The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the
 contaminated
soil
  involves pulling up two driveways, working against the
 foundation
  of
  houses, etc.  Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful.
  But
   its
 been
  vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast.
 
  Jaime
 
 
  On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond 
   curtlud...@yahoo.com
 javascript:;
  wrote:
 
   No basements in Alaska?
  
   In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no
 problems
   with
 fuel
   gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live
  in
   trailers...
  
  
   -Curt
  
   Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800
   From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:;
   To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  javascript:;
   Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

 live in the basement, no
  problems
with
  fuel
gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally
 live
   in
trailers...
   
   
-Curt
   
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800
From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:;
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
   javascript:;
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Message-ID: 
 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net
  javascript:;
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
   
A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is
  underwritten
by
 our
buddy Hugo Chavez.  When he dies, that subsidy goes away.
   
There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am
 aware
   of.
  Too
much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie
regulations
  that
do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway.
   
clay
   
On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
   
 You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil.

 In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in
  the
 form
  of
baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of
 steam
 around.
   Its
much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run
   ducts
 for
  hot
air.

 -Curt
   
___
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   --
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   http://www.jaimekop.com/
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 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
  
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  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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  --
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  http://www.jaimekop.com/
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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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   --
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   http://www.jaimekop.com/
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 --
 Jaime Kopchinski
 http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Tim C

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote:

 The federal government should not be in the business of flood insurance.
  If State Farm, etc wants to offer flood insurance they can be my guest.


A little late for that, they already do - sure it's subsidized in many
places but the end-user still pays.  You can't change a policy after the
fact.

Interestingly, I live nowhere near a flood zone, and my house is on the top
of the hill.  We are 30 minutes from the nearest lake, 4 hours from the
coast.  The city does participate in the national flood insurance program
(there is some cost associated with that so I was a little surprised).

I looked into flood insurance after the Katrina wind+rain=flood damage
nonsense from State Farm started to get publicized.  It would have more
than doubled my annual premium for just that one rider.  IMO I am much more
likely to suffer catastrophic wind+tree, or fire, or hail, or earthquake,
or drunk driver, or ... damage than I am to get flooded, but the costs did
not match that assessment.  Based on the news reporters' claims I was
surprised how expensive it actually was, even for my low-risk area.

Best,
Tim
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Rick Knoble

On Jan 29, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:

 I think a lot of people would be surprised at what New Jersey is like away 
 from the metro areas. Quite nice.


It is called The Garden State is it not?
I was there to visit twenty five years ago, went to AC, the boardwalk, White 
House Subs, etc. I thought it was pricey, but nice. 

Rick
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

Really?

I am just slightly out of a 500 year flood zone and my flood insurance is about 
$250/year.

The prices are set by the government, so if you're not in a flood zone I can't 
imagine yours would be more, as we are in the lowest bracket.

Dan

On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Tim C bb...@crone.us wrote:

 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.comwrote:
 
 The federal government should not be in the business of flood insurance.
 If State Farm, etc wants to offer flood insurance they can be my guest.
 
 
 A little late for that, they already do - sure it's subsidized in many
 places but the end-user still pays.  You can't change a policy after the
 fact.
 
 Interestingly, I live nowhere near a flood zone, and my house is on the top
 of the hill.  We are 30 minutes from the nearest lake, 4 hours from the
 coast.  The city does participate in the national flood insurance program
 (there is some cost associated with that so I was a little surprised).
 
 I looked into flood insurance after the Katrina wind+rain=flood damage
 nonsense from State Farm started to get publicized.  It would have more
 than doubled my annual premium for just that one rider.  IMO I am much more
 likely to suffer catastrophic wind+tree, or fire, or hail, or earthquake,
 or drunk driver, or ... damage than I am to get flooded, but the costs did
 not match that assessment.  Based on the news reporters' claims I was
 surprised how expensive it actually was, even for my low-risk area.
 
 Best,
 Tim
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues


Jaime Kopchinski wrote:

So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums
should be paid for their loss?


I think fedgov never should have gotten into the flood insurance business.
It got there because it was already paying for disaster relief after every 
flood, and that was something it never should have been involved with. If they 
had to rely on private insurance, they could only afford to build where it was 
economically feasible, given the expected probability of flood damage.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

I have friend who lives maybe 45 minutes from Newark. His wife is a veteran 
flight attendant that does international routes.

They live in an area that I would classify as horse country. Lots of big 
properties, many with horses.

Very nice, and quite a contrast from Newark and surrounds. Not at all what I 
pictured the first time I visited him.

Dan

On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote:

 On Jan 29, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:
 
 I think a lot of people would be surprised at what New Jersey is like away 
 from the metro areas. Quite nice.
 
 
 It is called The Garden State is it not?
 I was there to visit twenty five years ago, went to AC, the boardwalk, White 
 House Subs, etc. I thought it was pricey, but nice. 
 
 Rick
 Sent from my iPhone
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

Its pretty stupid to live in a flood prone area anyway. I really have no
remorse for people who choose to live in natural disaster areas. People
regularly leave their homelands for better opportunities or jobs. Then are
there those that stay in problem/depressed areas and expect the government
to pay them to live there.

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

Jaime Kopchinski wrote:

So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums
should be paid for their loss?

I think fedgov never should have gotten into the flood insurance business.
It got there because it was already paying for disaster relief after every
flood, and that was something it never should have been involved with. If
they had to rely on private insurance, they could only afford to build
where it was economically feasible, given the expected probability of flood
damage.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

Sure, bring a couple of million dollars, and be ready to pay out of the
butt in taxes.  Then hear how school bus drivers get paid overtime to
charge their cell phones.  How they will spend a cool billion dollars to
install EZ-Pass on the turnpike to phase out toll collectors who make $20
and hour.  How they put 35 mph work zone speeds on the turnpike when there
is absolutely no need and traffic whizzes by at 75.  Hope you're not one of
the unlucky ones who gets a 40 over ticket or rear-ended for going slow.
 Need to go to the DMV?  Take half a day off work and hope you don't have
to go back the next day or deal with old bat who just yells at people.  Get
two speeding tickets too close together?  Be prepared for a 'surcharge' for
having points on your license from the state.  Or the safety inspections
that take all day unless you go private.  And when you go, be ready to have
your OLD REGISTRATION because they don't want to see your NEW REGISTRATION.
 They issue steel tags before you're inspected.  Just pay your money.  We
don't care if your car is junk as long as you paid your money.  We'll just
fail you, but hey, we got your money.  The whole state is just a corrupt
wasteland.  Not a decent place to live, don't let the pictures or a quick
visit make you think otherwise.



On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:

 I have friend who lives maybe 45 minutes from Newark. His wife is a
 veteran flight attendant that does international routes.

 They live in an area that I would classify as horse country. Lots of big
 properties, many with horses.

 Very nice, and quite a contrast from Newark and surrounds. Not at all what
 I pictured the first time I visited him.

 Dan

 On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote:

  On Jan 29, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:
 
  I think a lot of people would be surprised at what New Jersey is like
 away from the metro areas. Quite nice.
 
 
  It is called The Garden State is it not?
  I was there to visit twenty five years ago, went to AC, the boardwalk,
 White House Subs, etc. I thought it was pricey, but nice.
 
  Rick
  Sent from my iPhone
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

I have often thought that there should be no Federally funded flood insurance 
for people who build in a flood zone. If it's an existing structure, let it be, 
but there should be no new construction in these areas.

It's not the perfect means to deal with the situation, but I have a problem 
subsidizing stupidity in the sense that structures should simply not be built 
in these areas, and if they are, the taxpayers should not be underwriting their 
insurance.

Dan

On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote:

 Its pretty stupid to live in a flood prone area anyway.  I really have no
 remorse for people who choose to live in natural disaster areas.  People
 regularly leave their homelands for better opportunities or jobs.  Then are
 there those that stay in problem/depressed areas and expect the government
 to pay them to live there.
 
 
 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:
 
 Jaime Kopchinski wrote:
 
 So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums
 should be paid for their loss?
 
 
 I think fedgov never should have gotten into the flood insurance business.
 It got there because it was already paying for disaster relief after every
 flood, and that was something it never should have been involved with. If
 they had to rely on private insurance, they could only afford to build
 where it was economically feasible, given the expected probability of flood
 damage.
 
 Mitch.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues


Dan Penoff wrote:

I have often thought that there should be no Federally funded flood insurance 
for people who build in a flood zone. If it's an existing structure, let it be, 
but there should be no new construction in these areas.


And what was our disaster related cost for New Orleans in 2005, something like 
$500k per household? Would have been cheaper to give every family a check for 
$200k and tell them to go live someplace that wasn't below sea level.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

I like that approach but I don't think it's realistic. People won't move from 
an area like that, and if they did, you have all the infrastructure that will 
be abandoned in place.

So let the government get out of the insurance business completely and let 
people tread water.

While it sounds good, it's not going to happen IMHO.

Dan

On Jan 29, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 Dan Penoff wrote:
 I have often thought that there should be no Federally funded flood 
 insurance for people who build in a flood zone. If it's an existing 
 structure, let it be, but there should be no new construction in these areas.
 
 And what was our disaster related cost for New Orleans in 2005, something 
 like $500k per household? Would have been cheaper to give every family a 
 check for $200k and tell them to go live someplace that wasn't below sea 
 level.
 
 Mitch.
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Benz Hogs

Are you saying those that live in Tornado Alley should move ASAP?  If 
so, I have a big banned #$(% you for that comment.


Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 Max (160,xxx mi)

On 1/29/2013 1:50 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:

Its pretty stupid to live in a flood prone area anyway.  I really have no
remorse for people who choose to live in natural disaster areas.  People
regularly leave their homelands for better opportunities or jobs.  Then are
there those that stay in problem/depressed areas and expect the government
to pay them to live there.


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:


Jaime Kopchinski wrote:


So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums
should be paid for their loss?



I think fedgov never should have gotten into the flood insurance business.
It got there because it was already paying for disaster relief after every
flood, and that was something it never should have been involved with. If
they had to rely on private insurance, they could only afford to build
where it was economically feasible, given the expected probability of flood
damage.

Mitch.




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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

I don't care who lives where. I don't think the federal government should
subsidize living in natural disaster areas. Actually, I don't think the
federal government should subsidize a lot of things, but they do. I would
rather see the government spend the money in tornado alley than the armpit
of America.

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote:

Are you saying those that live in Tornado Alley should move ASAP? If so,
I have a big banned #$(% you for that comment.

Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 Max (160,xxx mi)

On 1/29/2013 1:50 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:

Its pretty stupid to live in a flood prone area anyway. I really have no
remorse for people who choose to live in natural disaster areas. People
regularly leave their homelands for better opportunities or jobs. Then
are
there those that stay in problem/depressed areas and expect the government
to pay them to live there.

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

Jaime Kopchinski wrote:

So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums
should be paid for their loss?

I think fedgov never should have gotten into the flood insurance
business.
It got there because it was already paying for disaster relief after
every
flood, and that was something it never should have been involved with. If
they had to rely on private insurance, they could only afford to build
where it was economically feasible, given the expected probability of
flood
damage.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Tim C

That's strange; mine was somewhat more than $1K/yr, definitely not in a
flood zone.  Maybe there is some amount the state chips in above what the
muni pays.

Or maybe my State Farm agent hates me, and decided it wasn't worth the
commission, or she's planning to come flood my house and buy it out from
under me. :)

Best,
-Tim


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:

 Really?

 I am just slightly out of a 500 year flood zone and my flood insurance is
 about $250/year.

 The prices are set by the government, so if you're not in a flood zone I
 can't imagine yours would be more, as we are in the lowest bracket.

 Dan

 On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Tim C bb...@crone.us wrote:

  On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  The federal government should not be in the business of flood insurance.
  If State Farm, etc wants to offer flood insurance they can be my guest.
 
 
  A little late for that, they already do - sure it's subsidized in many
  places but the end-user still pays.  You can't change a policy after the
  fact.
 
  Interestingly, I live nowhere near a flood zone, and my house is on the
 top
  of the hill.  We are 30 minutes from the nearest lake, 4 hours from the
  coast.  The city does participate in the national flood insurance program
  (there is some cost associated with that so I was a little surprised).
 
  I looked into flood insurance after the Katrina wind+rain=flood damage
  nonsense from State Farm started to get publicized.  It would have more
  than doubled my annual premium for just that one rider.  IMO I am much
 more
  likely to suffer catastrophic wind+tree, or fire, or hail, or earthquake,
  or drunk driver, or ... damage than I am to get flooded, but the costs
 did
  not match that assessment.  Based on the news reporters' claims I was
  surprised how expensive it actually was, even for my low-risk area.
 
  Best,
  Tim
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Benz Hogs

I partially agree.  The gov't should not subsidize living or not paying 
for full insurance for probable disasters.  People should be able to 
choose where they want to live, it's part of life, liberty, and the 
pursuit of happiness.


Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 Max (160,xxx mi)

On 1/29/2013 2:30 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:

I don't care who lives where.  I don't think the federal government should
subsidize living in natural disaster areas.  Actually, I don't think the
federal government should subsidize a lot of things, but they do.  I would
rather see the government spend the money in tornado alley than the armpit
of America.


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote:


Are you saying those that live in Tornado Alley should move ASAP?  If so,
I have a big banned #$(% you for that comment.

Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 Max (160,xxx mi)


On 1/29/2013 1:50 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:


Its pretty stupid to live in a flood prone area anyway.  I really have no
remorse for people who choose to live in natural disaster areas.  People
regularly leave their homelands for better opportunities or jobs.  Then
are
there those that stay in problem/depressed areas and expect the government
to pay them to live there.


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

  Jaime Kopchinski wrote:


  So you don't think the people who paid their flood insurance premiums

should be paid for their loss?



I think fedgov never should have gotten into the flood insurance
business.
It got there because it was already paying for disaster relief after
every
flood, and that was something it never should have been involved with. If
they had to rely on private insurance, they could only afford to build
where it was economically feasible, given the expected probability of
flood
damage.

Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Randy Bennell


We used fuel oil to heat in NW Ontario.
I recall New Year's Eve 1974 (at least I think that was the year - it 
had to be73, 74 or 75 as those were the years that I lived in that house 
- from July 1973 to August 1975) the temperature was about minus 50 F.
The house was a small cottage that belonged to my parents and my wife 
and I lived there the first couple of years that we were married.
We had a 250 gallon oil tank on a stand at the end of the house. There 
was probably 3 feet of copper tubing from the tank outlet to the wall of 
the house and I believe I had it wrapped with insulation of some sort.
About midnight, the oil fired space heater went out. We could tell 
because, in the cold weather, it was turned up high enough that the 
automatic fan on it ran all of the time. When we heard the fan stop, we 
knew it was not a good sign.
I got up out of bed and got fully dressed and went out and banged on the 
end of the tank with a hammer. That got the oil flowing again and we 
relit the oil heater.

A half hour later, the fan stopped again.
I got up and got fully dressed again and found a trouble light. I 
plugged it in and hung the bulb end on the gate valve at the opening to 
the oil tank.

No more problem. The bulb alone created enough heat to keep the oil flowing.
I don't know what sort of additive or thinner they put in the fuel oil 
back then but we normally did not have any issues with flow so long as 
the temperatures stayed above about minus 40F.
My parents had oil heat at the house as well and it was a similar setup. 
The tank was close to the house and it only caused issues in extreme cold.


Randy

On 28/01/2013 10:21 PM, clay monroe wrote:

A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our buddy 
Hugo Chavez.  When he dies, that subsidy goes away.

There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of.  Too much 
freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that do not 
allow it to be stored under ground anyway.

clay

On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:


You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil.

In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of 
baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its much 
easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot air.

-Curt

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 22:20:19 -0700
From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Message-ID: 20130125222019.b78ee6064c77339a64cdf...@pisquared.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:37:39 -0800 clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net
wrote:

This is curious on a lot of levels



SWMBA is moving herself to the great white north next year.

So she is leaving you behind?



I wonder about CO with the place all buttoned up tight for six months.

It depends upon whether you have a gas water heater and furnace and how
tight the place actually is. It would likely be no more problem than if
you were there, the amount of CO in the air probably reaches steady-state
overnight. In addition, when you are away, there are no vent fans run.

You can set a gas water heater to pilot and not have much consumption
from that. You can turn down the temperature on the furnace.



How do they deal with the moisture added to the dry air and not get
mold?

Not running the humidifier when away will prevent that problem and save
electricity and water to boot. But if it's dry air to start ...



I am told there is not much forced air heat, since the availability of
NG is dropping.  No way to get it from the ground to town.

Actually, natural gas prices in the U.S. are dropping because of the
increased supply with fracking. The U.S. will shortly become a natural
gas exporter.

Whether there is not much forced air heat has nothing to do with natural
gas. The only other major energy sources are propane and electricity,
both of which fuel forced air heating systems as well as boilers for
hydronic heat, just like natural gas does.

But you don't say where there is not much forced air heat


Craig


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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Scott Ritchey


I was born and raised in NJ.  I spent my summers at the Jersey shore.  I
left in 1965 for college and military service.  Even though I still have
family there, I agree with Brian.  The only reason I'd go back is to attend
a funeral.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Toscano
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:59 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their
hands in everyone's pocket.  They'll make you spend tens of thousands of
dollars for a cup of heating oil.  But foolishly allow development on the
beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls through.
 The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm
concerned.


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel
astrasfo...@gmail.comwrote:

 This is called LUST

 Leaking Underground Storage Tanks



 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these
kinds
  of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the
  basement, where was the old one, for example.  I think he had a small
 patch
  in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it
  away.
 
  Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector.
We
  just sold our house and the buyer requested one.  Our house was heated
by
  natural gas, but was built in 1937.  There was no evidence of oil having
  been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call.  It was quite a
  relief when we passed the test!
 
  Jaime
 
 
 
  On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Jaime,
 
  How did they discover the tank and the leak?  Disclosure - has there
 ever
  been an underground oil tank?
 
  I am wondering because I will one day be dealing with a tank that
pumped
  and filled with sand.  That tank is under a concrete slab/front porch.
  The
  house was converted to natural gas 20 years ago.
 
  On Tuesday, January 29, 2013, Jaime Kopchinski wrote:
 
   Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New
 Jersey
   where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s.  In many cases,
there
  was
   no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution.
  Slowly,
   all these houses have had their tanks removed.  Lucky ones remove
them
   without any event.  Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into
 an
   environmental disaster.  Its enough of a problem here that you can
 get an
   insurance policy to protect yourself.
  
   We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a
 big
   red flag.  To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be
   removed as a condition of sale.
  
   My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed.  He had the
 tank
   pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years
 ago.
   He passed away and the family tried to sell the house.  They can't
 find
  any
   documentation about what was done to the tank.  An inspection showed
 the
   soil around the tank was contaminated.  The sale fell threw, and now
 the
   house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the
  bills.
   The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the
 neighbors.
   The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated
 soil
   involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of
   houses, etc.  Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful.  But its
  been
   vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast.
  
   Jaime
  
  
   On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com
  javascript:;
   wrote:
  
No basements in Alaska?
   
In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems
with
  fuel
gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in
trailers...
   
   
-Curt
   
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800
From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net javascript:;
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com javascript:;
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net
  javascript:;
   
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
   
A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by
 our
buddy Hugo Chavez.  When he dies, that subsidy goes away.
   
There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of.
  Too
much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie
regulations
  that
do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway.
   
clay
   
On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
   
 You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil.

 In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the
 form
  of
baseboard hot water though

Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

Its true, Dan.  Much of New Jersey is suburban or rural, even northern NJ.
 The area surrounding New York City, of course, is congested, and overall
cost of living is high.  But, this is to be expected living so close to the
largest city in the country.  It generally gets a bad rep because people
pass through the industrial areas of I-95 and you don't get to see much
beyond smoke stacks.

But a few miles west of I-95 things start to thin out. Wealthy areas have
large lots, horses, etc.  Middle class areas are typically suburban with
their quiet streets and green lawns.   Quality of living is high, but so is
the cost.. most families have two people working, at least in my younger
generation.  Except for the finance guys, their wives stay home.


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:

 I have friend who lives maybe 45 minutes from Newark. His wife is a
 veteran flight attendant that does international routes.

 They live in an area that I would classify as horse country. Lots of big
 properties, many with horses.

 Very nice, and quite a contrast from Newark and surrounds. Not at all what
 I pictured the first time I visited him.

 Dan

 On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote:

  On Jan 29, 2013, at 12:26 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:
 
  I think a lot of people would be surprised at what New Jersey is like
 away from the metro areas. Quite nice.
 
 
  It is called The Garden State is it not?
  I was there to visit twenty five years ago, went to AC, the boardwalk,
 White House Subs, etc. I thought it was pricey, but nice.
 
  Rick
  Sent from my iPhone
 
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-- 
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin

So how much heating oil is used now days? Diesel going up in the winter always 
used to be blamed on the heating oil season

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:16 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote:

 Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey
 where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s.  In many cases, there was
 no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution.  Slowly,
 all these houses have had their tanks removed.  Lucky ones remove them
 without any event.  Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an
 environmental disaster.  Its enough of a problem here that you can get an
 insurance policy to protect yourself.
 
 We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big
 red flag.  To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be
 removed as a condition of sale.
 
 My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed.  He had the tank
 pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago.
 He passed away and the family tried to sell the house.  They can't find any
 documentation about what was done to the tank.  An inspection showed the
 soil around the tank was contaminated.  The sale fell threw, and now the
 house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills.
 The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors.
 The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil
 involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of
 houses, etc.  Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful.  But its been
 vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast.
 
 Jaime
 
 
 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 No basements in Alaska?
 
 In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel
 gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in
 trailers...
 
 
 -Curt
 
 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800
 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
 Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 
 A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our
 buddy Hugo Chavez.  When he dies, that subsidy goes away.
 
 There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of.  Too
 much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that
 do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway.
 
 clay
 
 On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
 
 You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil.
 
 In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of
 baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its
 much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot
 air.
 
 -Curt
 
 ___
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
 
 -- 
 Jaime Kopchinski
 http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin

That is a little harsh telling somebody their state can rot.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:59 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote:

 The only LUST is by New Jersey government to make sure they have their
 hands in everyone's pocket.  They'll make you spend tens of thousands of
 dollars for a cup of heating oil.  But foolishly allow development on the
 beach and then demand billions in federal aid when a storm rolls through.
 The Jersey shore and the rest of that state can rot in hell as far as I'm
 concerned.
 
 
 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Strasfogel 
 astrasfo...@gmail.comwrote:
 
 This is called LUST
 
 Leaking Underground Storage Tanks
 
 
 
 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 I don't know for sure, but the township might have records of these kinds
 of things. And there are other clues... if there is a newer tank in the
 basement, where was the old one, for example.  I think he had a small
 patch
 in the driveway where they worked on the tank, so that probably gave it
 away.
 
 Plus, its common to do a tank scan now with a special metal detector.  We
 just sold our house and the buyer requested one.  Our house was heated by
 natural gas, but was built in 1937.  There was no evidence of oil having
 been used, or not used, so a scan was the final call.  It was quite a
 relief when we passed the test!
 
 Jaime
 
 
 
 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 Jaime,
 

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread dseretakis

In Maine, oil is king. Natural gas is starting to take hold in the in town 
locations but most of the state is rural so no gas lines.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 29, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote:

 So how much heating oil is used now days? Diesel going up in the winter 
 always used to be blamed on the heating oil season
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jan 29, 2013, at 10:16 AM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Underground heating oil tanks are very common here in northern New Jersey
 where many houses were built from the 1920s-50s.  In many cases, there was
 no natural gas service available and oil was the best solution.  Slowly,
 all these houses have had their tanks removed.  Lucky ones remove them
 without any event.  Unlucky ones have a leaking tank that turns into an
 environmental disaster.  Its enough of a problem here that you can get an
 insurance policy to protect yourself.
 
 We are house shopping now and any house with an underground tank is a big
 red flag.  To buy such a house, its common to request the tank to be
 removed as a condition of sale.
 
 My neighbor in my old neighborhood got really screwed.  He had the tank
 pumped and filled with sand, as was the common practice 10-15 years ago.
 He passed away and the family tried to sell the house.  They can't find any
 documentation about what was done to the tank.  An inspection showed the
 soil around the tank was contaminated.  The sale fell threw, and now the
 house is in foreclosure because the family just can't deal with the bills.
 The tank is under the driveway and on the properly line of the neighbors.
 The property is probably 60 ft wide... extracting the contaminated soil
 involves pulling up two driveways, working against the foundation of
 houses, etc.  Its a real shame, the house is just beautiful.  But its been
 vacant for two years now and its deteriorating fast.
 
 Jaime
 
 
 On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 No basements in Alaska?
 
 In New England most oil tanks live in the basement, no problems with fuel
 gelling. The folks who have their tanks outside generally live in
 trailers...
 
 
 -Curt
 
 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:21:04 -0800
 From: clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
 Message-ID: 832b9524-ae4a-4ebc-87d0-85196c15f...@comcast.net
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 
 A proportion of the NE heats with Citgo and that is underwritten by our
 buddy Hugo Chavez.  When he dies, that subsidy goes away.
 
 There is no great use of heating oil in Alaska that I am aware of.  Too
 much freeze to allow it to flow and severe enviro-weenie regulations that
 do not allow it to be stored under ground anyway.
 
 clay
 
 On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:51 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
 
 You forget oil. Much of the northeast heats with oil.
 
 In older houses here hydronic is pretty common, usually in the form of
 baseboard hot water though theres still a fair amount of steam around. Its
 much easier to add (like in my house) baseboard than to run ducts for hot
 air.
 
 -Curt
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
 
 -- 
 Jaime Kopchinski
 http://www.jaimekop.com/
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 ___
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 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues


Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

That is a little harsh telling somebody their state can rot.


True, but it's understandable if their state is as famously corrupt as 
Mississippi, Louisiana, Illinois or New Jersey.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin

Yea ok, they them rot then:)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 29, 2013, at 6:25 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
 That is a little harsh telling somebody their state can rot.
 
 True, but it's understandable if their state is as famously corrupt as 
 Mississippi, Louisiana, Illinois or New Jersey.
 
 Mitch.
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues

2013-01-29 Thread Curt Raymond

Enough to get me really working on conservation. $3.70/gal at our last fillup. 
Diesel went to $4.04 this morning up from $3.99 yesterday.

I'm working on getting our mortgage refinanced under HARP 2, if I can make that 
happen I'll finish the insulation on a faster schedule and we'll be looking at 
a ground loop heat pump sooner rather than later.

-Curt

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:17:27 -0600
From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues
Message-ID:
assp.27422071ef.b8fa7e10-887c-4fae-aa19-100e80c8b...@striplin.net
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii

So how much heating oil is used now days? Diesel going up in the winter always 
used to be blamed on the heating oil season

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] OT Cold weather issues