Re: [MOSAIC] state tests going too far

[cathymillr]

Riduculous! I used to live in Austin, but it wasn't this bad. I know that 
principals are under the gun. Wouldn't be one for all the $$ in the world.


-Original Message-
From: Laura Cannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group' 

Sent: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:07 pm
Subject: [MOSAIC] state tests going too far



Here is a headline from my town-where a single test can lead us:

 


Teachers say principal threatened to kill them if TAKS test scores didn't
improve


Web Posted: 03/26/2008 05:19 PM CDT


Roger Croteau
Express-News 

NEW BRAUNFELS -- A middle school principal threatened to kill a group of
science teachers if their students did not improve their standardized test
scores, according to a complaint filed with the New Braunfels Police
Department.

I don't teach at this school or in this school district-but our principals
let it be known that their evaluations are based solely on their TAKS
scores. 

 

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Re: [MOSAIC] Interventions

[cathymillr]

If you are talking about DIBELS-like intervention, the Florida website has some 
- fwww.fcrr.com I think it is, and there is a site called Intervention Central. 
Just search for it. 

I like the book Creating Strategic Readers for quick, simple?ideas for small 
group work, but I forget the author's name. 

Cathy
DE
K-5


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 7:34 pm
Subject: [MOSAIC] Interventions





Does anyone have a resource for reading and writing  intervention  strategies?
Maxine



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Re: [MOSAIC] Fluency Instruction

[cathymillr]

I am new back on the list serve as well, so have been out of the loop. we are 
not a reading first school, but just started wth dibels last year, so fluency 
is an area we will also focus on. 

Last year, with some very slow readers in grades 3-5, I found that repeated 
reading - -one on one - worked the best. I am the reading specialist, so I have 
the luxury of working one on one at times. I know that sounds very simplistic, 
but it did increase the rate. I also did some small group strategy instruction 
with these students. 

We have not had good luck with Great Leaps. 

Cathy


-Original Message-
From: Maddox, Amy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 2:33 pm
Subject: [MOSAIC] Fluency Instruction



Hi, I have been unable to be part of the list-serve for some time but am
making an attempt to, again, make it a priority. I have found you to be
a wonderful asset to my teaching. A group of teachers have asked that I
research strategies that work for fluency. Here is the deal. They would
like to focus support (however that might look) on primary grade
students that are performing below grade level. There goal is around
fluency. I have put my two cents in about comprehension and quality
instruction but we are looking at fluency for the time being. This
instruction would be outside of their literacy block. With that in mind,
what are some of the best "research-based, highly successful" strategies
that work with fluency? Just want to pick your brain. Amy

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Re: [MOSAIC] Comprehension Assessment

[cathymillr]

I really need this too. We have kids who can fly through the phonics and 
fluency assessments of dibels, but can't comprehend at the level required by 
our state assessments.
Cathy
DE


-Original Message-
From: Sarah Lindmeier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 2:13 pm
Subject: [MOSAIC] Comprehension Assessment



Hello,
I had a question for you all about reading assessments.? I am working with a 
few 
fourth graders that are really struggling in the area of reading 
comprehension.? 
Does anyone know of any quality normed comprehension assessments?? I know, I'm 
probably asking for the impossible.? I would like to use them to inform my 
instruction as well as their progress.? Thanks for your help!Sarah Lindmeier
Title I Reading
Tilford Elementary School
319-472-4728 ext. 264=



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Re: [MOSAIC] spelling lists

[cathymillr]

I did not "get" phonics when I was learning to read...but I was a great reader 
anyway. I think that is why I don't see the point of insisting that all 
students learn through phonics. However, I have taught some students who needed 
the "rules" to learn to read. Keep in mind that it is a means to an end; it can 
be easily tested and mastered by most students. And then it is a valuable tool 
in learning to do "real" reading.



But comprehension is not easily taught or mastered... it is a process... and it 
is more challenging to teach...and?to measure. 



Cathy

K-5 

DE


-Original Message-
From: Bill Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 1:15 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] spelling lists





> In a message dated 9/20/2007 5:42:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> By the  way, I hate phonics. Could that be because that is not how I was
> taught? Or  maybe because I moved ten times in six years and each school 
> district
> did  something different? Or maybe because it feels  inauthentic?
>

Phonics is no different than any other skill.  The problem is some people 
don't stop and think about when and where teaching these skills are 
appropriate or no longer needed.  Phonics is great for K-3 for children 
learning to recognize words and word sounds, but once they've learned it, 
there's no need to beat a dead horse.  Same can be said  for just about 
anything:

AR is great for a kid who doesn't read because it makes the kid readonce 
he or she finds an author or genre they enjoy, they should be left to 
discover for themselves the fun in readingnot forced to read for points. 
I'm teaching mostly advanced classes this year, but too many of them think 
reading is only about points.  That's not a fault of the program, but a 
fault of the teaching.

Fluency is important for someone who reads one word at a time because it 
teaches them to group words in patterns that make sense, once a child "gets 
it" there's no need to pound in their heads, but many teachers confuse the 
act with the skill.  Too many teachers think fluency is about speed or AR is 
about points.  They are about helping kids.

The same thing happens with the reading strategies.  Some teach, for 
example, "visualization" and will spend a few lessons on the concept, but 
that isn't teaching for visualization.  Many teachers think that if they 
give the idea to the kids, the kids will asorb it somehow.  That's that 
"empty vessel waiting to be filled" philosophy that has permeated education 
since the dawn of timethat's one of the few pluses of state tests and 
collecting datayou can gear instruction for individual needs and 
weaknesses; if you truly teach a strategy, then it will become second 
nature.

The teaching materials / lessons / programs / etc. are only as good as the 
teacher

Bill



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Re: [MOSAIC] Essay samples

[cathymillr]

You can see samples and prompts from the Delaware test on our website. Just 
search for Delaware Dept. of Education, then follow the links from curriculum, 
to English Language Arts to sample items. Or follow the links from DSTP to 
sample items. Let me know if you have trouble.



Cathy

K-5 

Delaware


-Original Message-
From: Julie Sosa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 12:55 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Essay samples




I am mostly looking for 4th and 5th grade writing samples.  I've searched just 
recently on Stone Soup and that is a start.
 
"Tell me and I forget.Teach me and I remember.Involve me and I learn" Benjamin 
Franklin



- Original Message 
From: Bill Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 8:28:41 PM
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Essay samples


What grade level?
I'm using IMAGE GRAMMAR for my middle schoolers since the author uses many 
samples from middle schoolers
Bill

- Original Message - 
From: "Julie Sosa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group" 

Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Essay samples


> This year I am trying to tie in more and more of what my students read to 
> their writing.  Over the years I have collected different student samples 
> of essays because I think it is so important for students to actually see 
> what good writing looks like.  Writing seems like an impossible task for 
> some kids and I wish I could show them so many more samples.  Does anyone 
> know if there is a book/ website out there that simply provides you with 
> children's writing?  Not one that instructs you on how to teach it, but 
> actually shows you.
>
>
> 
> 
> Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! 
> Autos.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html
>
>
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[MOSAIC] comp. strategies with teachers

[cathymillr]

The reading specialists in my district are preparing a year-long staff 
development experience on comprehension strategies based on Tanny McGregor's 
fabulous book, Comprehension Connections. We have pretty much plotted out the 
year, with a strategy introduced?each month at a?staff meeting,?but next month 
we have an inservice presentation to do that will be attended by most of the 
elementary teachers, but not all. So...we are wondering what we can do in about 
60-90 minutes that would be valuable, but would not "leave some teachers 
behind" if they missed the session.

I am thinking about a model lesson to demonstrate the Gradual Release of 
Responsibility model. We will not have time to do this specifically while 
introducing the other strategies. I am also thinking of a focus on questioning 
or inference, since those are the strategies that I feel help us most on our... 
I hate to say this...state tests.

I would appreciate any suggestions.

Cathy
K-5
DE




 

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Re: [MOSAIC] comp. strategies with teachers

[cathymillr]

This is a great idea. There does need to be more student centered?talk in the 
classrooms at my school. Thanks.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] comp. strategies with teachers



 
Cathy
How about the idea of "turn and talk"???
I think a lot of teachers don't know how to teach kids to converse  
productively...and giving the kids time to talk really does help them  
internalize 
strategies.
Jennifer
In a message dated 9/25/2007 6:45:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

The  reading specialists in my district are preparing a year-long staff 
development  experience on comprehension strategies based on Tanny McGregor's 
fabulous  book, Comprehension Connections. We have pretty much plotted out the 
year,  with a strategy introduced?each month at a?staff meeting,?but next month 
we 
 have an inservice presentation to do that will be attended by most of the  
elementary teachers, but not all. So...we are wondering what we can do in  
about 60-90 minutes that would be valuable, but would not "leave some teachers  
behind" if they missed the session.

I am thinking about a model lesson  to demonstrate the Gradual Release of 
Responsibility model. We will not have  time to do this specifically while 
introducing the other strategies. I am also  thinking of a focus on questioning 
or 
inference, since those are the  strategies that I feel help us most on our... I 
hate to say this...state  tests.

I would appreciate any  suggestions.

Cathy
K-5
DE


 



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Re: [MOSAIC] /Marie Carbo

[cathymillr]

I have not read much on learning styles lately, but as far as early childhood 
teaching goes, the kinesthetic approach seems to be necessary for nearly 
everyone. Think about going from concrete to abstract, and it makes perfect 
sense. We all need to do it first, then we can possibly internalize it for 
later application. 

Cathy
K-5
DE


-Original Message-
From: Beverlee Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 4:14 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] /Marie Carbo



Well, I probably shouldn't have mentioned it since I don't even remember where 
I 
read it.  It's probably been 8 or so years ago, and I think it was possibly in 
a 
Kappan article, although I'm very fuzzy.  I think she was including the work of 
Kenneth and Rita Dunn as well as her own when she wrote it.  (But, gosh, I 
should have known that several years later, I'd need to know what it was and 
where it went!)  I'm not going to have much time to track it down, but here's 
what I remember her writing, basically:  Even though children at about 8 years 
and older exhibit learning styles varied between friends(requiring their 
teachers to match instruction to those styles in order to minimize damage which 
can cause a child to look learning disabled even when he/she isn't) that isn't 
the same issue in K-2 classrooms.  As I remember it, she said that she 
recommended her proposed practices in the K-2 classrooms because virtually all 
students at that age, were tactile/kinesthetic and global learners.  All 
children at those grade levels would profit from active learning, experiential 
programs, and a constructivist approach.  Techniques helpful for all students 
at 
that age would be hands-on, involve active learning, and have movement and 
choice in their programs.  
 
So, her advice across the board, at that time, was that since all (or nearly 
all)children in early childhood programs learned in those modes, then the great 
majority would strongly benefit from instruction reflecting those identified 
styles.  Whereas she purported that older kids' learning styles needed to be 
determined in order to match instruction, she believed all young children 
started out as global, tactile/kinesthetic learner who then went on the 
auditory 
and visual.
 
I'll try to look for the article when I kind of catch up at school, but we 
moved 
4 years ago, and it may have been in something that got tossed.
 
I sure hope I didn't misunderstand what she wrote; the reason I remember it at 
all was that it make such good sense when I read it and I wondered why everyone 
didn't know that!
 
Of course, like I said, I haven't read anything of hers in the last few years, 
so I hope I'm representing what she said earlier.
 
Thanks.  Bev > Please share this...I have read two books by Marie Carbo and do 
not remember > anything about learning styles varying at different ages.> 
Jennifer> In a message dated 9/27/2007 9:39:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:> > I noted that Marie Carbo does indeed write 
about varying learning styles in > language arts for older kids, but says 
something very different about > children at ages where they are typically 
emergent readers.
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Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists

[cathymillr]

Thank you for stating that whole language includes phonics. As I see it, 
this?debate got started by people who thought whole language meant "whole 
word," not sounding out words, just memorizing the "whole" word. I can't count 
the number of times I have seen that interpretation stated by the media 
covering the debate. 

Cathy
K-5 
DE


-Original Message-
From: Waingort Jimenez, Elisa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 1:22 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists



Whole language incorporates phonics instruction.
Elisa 

Elisa Waingort
Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual
Dalhousie Elementary
Calgary, Canada



I also like it because it is balanced between phonics and whole language styles 
of teaching.

Joy/NC/4
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  How children learn is as important as what they learn: process and content go 
hand in hand. http://www.responsiveclassroom.org
   









   
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Re: [MOSAIC] comprehension strategies with teachers

[cathymillr]

We began our planning for this session on Friday. We are?going to do a model 
lesson on connections using the gradual release model - after we have done the 
metacognition salad from McGregor's book. I have the K-1 teachers. I am using 
information from many sources - Miller, Keene, etc, and also another book I 
bought this summer - Constructing Meaning by Nancy Boyles. Any suggestions on a 
book choice for connections that kinder would find appealing?? I am considering 
The Seashore Book by? Zolotow right now, but would love some fresh?suggestions. 

Cathy
K-5
DE
-Original Message-
From: Linda Buice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Listserv 

Sent: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 4:26 pm
Subject: [MOSAIC] (Mosaic) strategies and chunking



Hi all,

I have been watching the posts and was interested in hearing more about two of 
them.  Several people talked about chunking and one e-mail talked about the 
parents helping - it might have been Lori.  I want to know what the parents did 
to help?

Also, I think Cathy talked about a training for teachers and mentioned she 
wanted to do the gradual release model.  Could you tell more about this?  I 
know 
what it is and how I do it with kids, but our staff does not know how to use 
it.  
What will you do in your workshop to show teachers?

Thanks,
Linda
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Re: [MOSAIC] prediction

[cathymillr]

I love Fly Away Home by Bunting.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 5:11 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] prediction



I've been using Linda Hoyt's comprehension strategy lessons in her 
Interactive
Read Alouds series for gr. K-1 and 2-3.   My gr. 2 students enjoyed the 
predicting strategy
lesson for Blueberries for Sal..their schema for bears led their thinking one 
way, so
there were opportunities for them to revise their predictions throughout the 
book.
There's always a readers theater script for after each lesson which is great 
for
my students w non-English or limited-English proficiencies.

here's the link:
http://www.interactivereadalouds.com


In a message dated 9/29/07 7:29:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> Does anyone have titles of good picture books to teach predicting and 
> confirming or changing predictions for primary grades (grade 2)? I do know 
that 
> almost any story can be used for this but I was looking in particular for 
short 
> books in which some predictions would not turn out as expected-that is, I 
> don't want everything to be so predictable. Thanks in advance.
> 




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Re: [MOSAIC] comp. strategies with teachers

[cathymillr]

Well said. 


-Original Message-
From: Bill Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 7:58 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] comp. strategies with teachers



I think the biggest thing we can teach teachers at our schools is this:

Everything boils down to COMPREHENSION.

If you lose sight of that, you are missing the point.  My kids (6th, 7th, & 
8th) could identify the parts of a story map, but couldn't tell me what each 
part was all about.  They can answer any questions from the book, but they 
can't tell me what the story was about.  They can identify all the parts of 
a sentence, but if you write one on the board, they can't tell you what it 
means.  All these things have been taught without a focus on comprehension. 
Many of them had good reading teachers last year who taught them about 
predictions, inferences, and makiing connections, but instead of doing those 
things, many can tell me what they mean.

Plus, they've been taught to analyze for every detail so much that they have 
forgotten how to feel.  A couple read THE FAITHFUL ELEPHANTS and told me it 
was okay.  They felt sorry for the elephants, but they didn't really FEEL 
the story.  Same for "Dog of Pompeii" which is a SAAAD story, but few FELT 
anything.  Have we trained them to think so much for testing skills that we 
have taken the empathy from them?

Bill 


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Re: [MOSAIC] Help!

[cathymillr]

 We are trying the same thing this year, but have not started yet. We are doing 
the metacognition lesson from McGregor first, then a review of the gradual 
release of responsibility model, next Friday. I am doing connections for my 
lesson with the K-1 teachers (we divided them into grade level groups) with 
either The Relatives Came or The Seashore Book. 

For the rest of the year, we hope to introduce a strategy each month and do 
model lessons in some classrooms. 

Best of luck to you. Feel free to email me off list for more info. (Better wait 
to ask after Oct. 12, so I have some more insight.)

Cathy
K-5
DE


 


 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Cc: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 
Sent: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 5:29 pm
Subject: [MOSAIC] Help!











Hi fellow reading enthusiasts,

I was recently awarded an amazing opportunity by my coordinator: the
chance to present the comprehension strategies to our k-5 team in hopes of
adopting them across the grade levels. I am extremely excited about this
as I have been pushing for a reading coach position at my school (there
currently isn't even the position in my school, so i'd be the first) and I
feel like this presentation will be kind of like an interview. Currently,
I am the ONLY one who is fluent, even familiar in the comprehension
strategies as well as all the other amazing books out there including
Miller, McGregor, Zimmerman, etc. so it is extremely important that I am
very well prepared. I have to plan a year long staff development plan,
with an introductory presentation of the readers workshop model, and a
different strategy each month. I'd like to provide the teachers with
sample lessons, anchor charts, and videos of my own teaching. I remember
reading on this email group of someone having to do the same thing and I'd
LOVE if you or anyone else, could share some information with me (ideas,
plans, resources, etc). Thank you for your help!

Christina
2nd grade
Tampa, Florida


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Re: [MOSAIC] mastery of stragies

[cathymillr]

I still believe connections are important, but I don't worry too much about 
labeling. Do we ever really master a comprehension strategy???

Cathy
K-5 
DE


-Original Message-
From: gina nunley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 2:47 pm
Subject: [MOSAIC] mastery of stragies





Am I right that the STW 2 doesn't focus on connecting?  I am about to rethink 
it 
myself.  I just spent 2 weeks on it.  Forcing a connection, and then forcing a 
So What? meaningful use of the connection isn't flowing well.
 
I also decided after several years that insisting they code T-S, T-T, and T-W 
isn't really necessary either.  I am being much simpler.  I am saying
 
Hey did this remind you of anything...oh yeah?  What?  Oh do you think that you 
can use that information to understand and event or character...no OK let's go 
on.  Yes OK let's talk about that.  
 
No connection?  OK let's keep reading.  Or maybe I add my own.
 
 
I see teachers, myself included, forcing the strategy work and it just doesn't 
work that way most days, which leaves me wondering how to talk to my district 
about MASTERY.
 
  See we need to do common assessments to show mastery of our strategy unit.  
What would you say to them?  Thanks, Gina 6th grade.
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Re: [MOSAIC] Help. .(again)

[cathymillr]

I totally agree with Jennifer's advice on the books.


-Original Message-
From: Paula Rushia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 8:29 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Help. .(again)



At my school, our Reading With Meaning book club was open to all grade levels, 
and as a fifth grade teacher, I'm so glad I joined it.  RWM clearly explains 
how 
to teach the strategies described in Mosaic.  I found it easy to envision how 
Miller's lessons would look in a fifth grade classroom.
Paula

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  
I had a similar experience...intermediate teachers were turned off by the  
primary focus.
One group picked Mosaic rather than Strategies That Work (it looked  shorter) 
but found it too abstract. They wanted practical.
Those that did Strategies That Work were intimidated at first by the size  of 
the book but found it the most practical and applicable of all...
Jennifer
Maryland
In a message dated 10/4/2007 9:02:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I'm torn  between starting with
"Mosaic of Thought" or "Reading with Meaning." What  do you all think?
Also, as far as starting the group. . . What do you think  would be the
best possible way of advertising? We all know that not every  teacher is
open to new ideas and I really want to present it in the best  light
possible. Please share any of your thoughts or personal  experiences.







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Re: [MOSAIC] RTI

[cathymillr]

We will probably face this same problem. However, at the state training, there 
was some indication that a state level universal assessment may be developed ( 
we were talking about math at the time). Has anyone else heard of a state level 
universal assessment system?

Cathy
K-5
DE


-Original Message-
From: jkyingling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 10:56 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] RTI



I'm curious to know what will you use as your universal screening tool if
you don't use DIBELS?  Will it be AIMSWeb?  We're using DIBELS and it's just
not enough.  Our kids need screened for reading comprehension and math and
the DIBELS just doesn't do that.



Our school psychologist is pushing for DIBELS, but after using it
> briefly and reading the book by Elaine Garan where she addresses valid
reasons  for
> not using it, I'm hoping we won't.

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Re: [MOSAIC] RTI

[cathymillr]

I agree that we need to stop the referral to special ed as the first resort 
instead of the last and am hopeful that RtI will help. This is a federal 
mandate, not a state mandate, but if I understand, state can submit various 
plans for approval. 

Cathy
K-5
DE







-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 11:07 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] RTI



In NYS, I believe, eventual RTI (response to intervention) involvement is  
not optional.  It is part of the state push to lower special education  
classification numbers.  The idea is that we make sure we have given a  child 
the best 
possible intervention before we make assumptions about learning  
disabilities.  It also includes the idea that even if a child does have a  
learning 
disability, we need to have a real and concrete plan for addressing the  
child's 

learning needs. 
 
 In the past we worked with the discrepancy model which looked for a  certain 
gap between a child's actual achievement and their expected  potential.  That 
model assumed that the child was receiving the best  possible intervention, 
which isn't always the case.  The tiers indicate the  child's level of 
instruction, tier three being the most needy and perhaps will  end up being 
classified 
with a learning disability.  Tier one, grade level  and doing fine.
 
In our school, use of this model has been ok.  I have found that  special 
education teachers and reading teachers are working much more closely  
together. 

This is a good thing.  It's all a continuum of learning  needs, in my opinion. 
  We have had experiences with children that we  were pretty sure would end 
up under the Committee for Special Education who did  not after the "tier 3" 
intervention we were able to provide.  This  intervention for the most needy 
learners has worked out to be that sometimes a  child will have 3 reading 
lessons 
a day, planned pretty congruently: one from  the Title I Reading teacher, one 
from the special education teacher and one from  their classroom teacher.  
 
I've been a teacher for a long time and I do have mixed feelings about this  
stuff.  Overall, I am ok with it and have been able to shape my piece in it  
to contain what I believe to be best for my students in Title I.  I work in  a 
small district in which we are able to contribute specifically with the  
direction our programs go.  I am curious to hear other people's  experiences. 
 
Cathy 
Title I Reading
NYS



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Re: [MOSAIC] RTI

[cathymillr]

I just went to my first training for RtI on October 4. We are starting this 
year, but it is not required until Fall 2008. I am the reading specialist and 
will probably have a variety of duties - advising teachers about strategies for 
intervention, doing interventions myself, and keeping the data. I would love to 
have some advice via this group, since? we will all be implementing it soon. 



Cathy

K-5

DE


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:37 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] RTI




Anyone from this group involved with Response to Intervention (RTI).  Our 
district just began this process this year.  I was assigned to be an 
interventionist at Tier 3.  I was told that I needed to use Options 
Intervention 
materials.  Is anyone in the same position and/or has experience using Options? 
Joyce

-- Original message -- 
From: "Nancy Hagerty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/07 7:39 PM >>> 
> I'm torn between starting with 
> "Mosaic of Thought" or "Reading with Meaning." What do you all think? 
> Also, as far as starting the group. . . What do you think would be the 
> best possible way of advertising? We all know that not every teacher is 
> open to new ideas and I really want to present it in the best light 
> possible. Please share any of your thoughts or personal experiences. 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Christina. 
> 
> While I absolutely LOVE Reading with Meaning, many of our staff members 
> didn't even care to look at it once they found out Debbie was a first 
> grade teacher. They felt her style didn't work for them and that what 
> she was doing didn't pertain to them. (They are missing SOO much) 
> but, that being said you may want to start with the new Mosaic and then 
> move on with those that show an interest. 
> 
> Good luck! 
> Nancy 
> 
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Re: [MOSAIC] RTI

[cathymillr]

In some of the exploring of research I have done, I can see that the DIBELS 
"researchers" and the?RtI "researchers" overlap quite a bit.? 

Cathy
K-5
DE
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org; mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 11:16 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] RTI



It is important to read the IDEA wording that includes many repetitions of 
"scientific evidence." The three tiers are built on this assumed "scientific 
evidence." Tier One has been used tell teachers that "core reading" programs 
with "scientific research" should meet the needs of 80% of their readers. 

We now know through the What Works Clearinghouse that NONE of these core 
programs have the scientific research that meets the requirements for 
"scientific evidence." (Only Success for All had more than one scientific study 
to qualify for review, and SFA received a potentially positive rating for 
general reading achievement-but had "mixed results" on comprehension.) 

And, in schools where the "core" program hasn't met the needs of 80%, teachers 
are being pressured to believe its their fault, and/or they need to follow the 
program even more closely (implying the integrity of the program must have been 
compromised). NOT that the core program does not have any scientific evidence 
to 
support following it even more closely.

The next two tiers are supposed to meet the needs of the next 15% and 5 % of 
struggling readers. And, of course these programs are supposed to have 
scientific research too. All the programs I have seen listed in Tier 2 & 3 do 
NOT have effective ratings at WWC, either. (Surprised?) The programs I have 
seen 
on these Tiers are supposedly chosen because the their research was supported 
by 
Oregon Reading First. I wish I were kidding, but this seems like the Twilight 
Zone.

 Interestingly most, if not all of these programs have "potentially positive 
effects" on alphabetics and/or fluency at WWC, but none for comprehension, nor 
general reading achievement. (One in particular had potentially negative 
effects 
on comprehension. So for all those DIBELS schools pushing reading rate, they 
too 
might expect to see comprehension to suffer, based on this "scientific" 
program.) 

Importantly, on all the program Tier Frameworks I have seen Reading Recovery is 
not included at any Tier. That is the most interesting because it of course if 
the ONLY beginning reading programs to get the WWC highest rating (strong 
evidence) for general reading achievement. (I think the news that RR was 
black-balled is still being used against it by Special Ed.)

Those who have been using DIBELS are just starting to abandon it in favor of 
AIMSWEB. My question is what "scientific" evidence that using these screens at 
AIMSWEB actually improves reading achievement (on other measures especially) in 
comprehension or general reading achievement.  

RtI requires these screens because the students identified must be compared 
across their entire group of peers. (Claims are made that the screens are good 
for all of course.) They are attractive (screens) because they are CHEAP and 
QUICK, and can be done whole group in some cases. And, I understand the graphs 
are pretty. (But, scoring the writing screens isn't "quick," I've heard.  Of 
course the fluency screen has a timed factor because how else could they graph 
something? So AIMSWEB screens just break reading down into its meaningless 
parts 
in more/different ways than DIBELS, and I have yet to see the "scientific" 
evidence to support it use either. 

It appears nobody at the U.S. Department of Education has told state Special 
Education departments about the What Works Clearinghouse, or the Reading First 
debacle, so they push blindly forward.

john d.


mosaic@literacyworkshop.org wrote:
>What is RTI and could you please explain the tiering system further.
>Thanks.
>J.Hayden
>
>
>On 10/6/07 6:40 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> My district started investigating RTI last year and we are using  the tiering
>> system this year. I'm an AIS reading teacher.
>
>
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Re: [MOSAIC] strategies

[cathymillr]

Right now, we are planning to do an overview of our district comprehension 
strategy and word study initiatives for about 30-45 minutes with everyone. Then 
, we are splitting into three groups to do model lessons, to include the GRR 
format. I will have k-1 and I plan to do the metacognition lesson with the 
reading salad from McGregor, maybe the think bubble lesson, and then the 
connection lesson from Reading with Meaning with The Relatives Came.The 
specialists doing the other grade levels are dealing with slightly different 
lessons. 



Cathy

K-5 

DE


-Original Message-
From: Linda Buice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 9:09 am
Subject: [MOSAIC] strategies




Hi Cathy,

 

I was interested in what you were going to do for 90 minutes

to practice gradual release of responsibility with teachers.  We are also in
need of that in our school.

 

Linda 

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Re: [MOSAIC] strategies

[cathymillr]

We are starting with Comprehension Connections this Friday at an inservice, but 
some of our teachers already teach strategies. 

Hey, I just realized that you are in Hurst-Euless-Bedford. - I used to be in 
Round Rock. Nice to hear from a Texan. Does your district want you to move away 
from the basal?

Cathy
K-5
DE


-Original Message-
From: Judy Gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:57 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] strategies



We are in need of moving teachers out of the basal...we have just introduced 
Debbie Miller and Ellin Keene any suggestions on how to get more teachers "to 
come to the party"... Judy

>>> "Linda Buice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/08/07 8:09 AM >>>
Hi Cathy,

 

I was interested in what you were going to do for 90 minutes

to practice gradual release of responsibility with teachers.  We are also in
need of that in our school.

 

Linda 

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Re: [MOSAIC] persuasive writing

[cathymillr]

Charlottes Web comes to mind. 


-Original Message-
From: B G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:30 pm
Subject: [MOSAIC] persuasive writing



We are going to be doing some persuasive writing in both 2nd and 3rd grade.  I 
am wondering now if anyone can recommend any picture books that have a theme of 
persuading or even a section of the book being about a character trying to 
persuade another character to go along with his opinion.  I have Because of 
Winn-Dixie and will use the part where Opal is persuading her father, the 
preacher, to keep the dog she found in the store.  Any other ideas out there?  
Thanks in advance. Barb
   
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Re: [MOSAIC] mastery strategies

[cathymillr]

Yes, we have to have some type of assessment that shows kids can apply the 
thinking they have learned to do to a comprehension task of sorts. 


-Original Message-
From: gina nunley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 9:31 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] mastery strategies




athy and Elisa got me thinking.
athy said:
o we ever really master a comprehension strategy??? CathyK-5 DE

 said:
'd say no because strategies are dependent on the uniqueness of the text you 
re comprehending.  BUT for the sake of argument..our district feels they need 
o see that kids grasped and applied what we taught, so they want some kind of 
ssessment and we have to decide some level of mastery.


lisa said:
 would think the common assessments would be about comprehending and not about 
he strategies. In other words, students should show they are comprehending what 
hey read not that they use a particular strategy to do so. Does this make 
ense?> Elisa
 said:  Well the hope is that if they aren't comprehending we have some way of 
eeing what kind of thinking they are not doing, so first we do an assessment of 
hat they can do.  We hope by assessing each strategy we'll be better prepared 
o have a plan on how to improve the comprehension.   It is a slippery slope.  
ut I am in a district that is very much about being able to assess what we 
each.  It has me spinning on a regular basis...and the forest and trees are a 
lur.  

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Re: [MOSAIC] RTI/DIBELS Reading Resources

[cathymillr]

I have found some good information on the FCRR site, but the jimwrightonline 
and intervention central have so many links that seem to overlap that they are 
hard to navigate. It seems to me that some of the things that are labeled 
"interentions" are really just assessments or collections of questions. There 
are many fluency passages if you need items for more practice on repeated 
readings.



I hope as we move along in this there are actually some strategies for 
intervention that are just passages - with some real lessons. 

Cathy
K-5
DE


-Original Message-
From: Ellen K Closs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 8:57 pm
Subject: [MOSAIC] RTI/DIBELS Reading Resources




I was just invited by my school's Learning Support Specialist to co-offer a 
class for teachers about "Response to Intervention" and "DIBELS" because of 
my experience with technology.  I am not a huge fan of DIBELS as we already 
do M.L.P.P. (Michigan Literacy Progress Profile), as I feel that it does not 
reach the heart of reading instruction (we are still doing M.L.P.P. in 
addition to DIBELS), I agreed to help her.  I am new to both programs this 
year and am looking for resources that would be helpful for teachers (K-5) 
on implementing these programs.  So far, I have the following sites: 

RTI:
http://www.interventioncentral.org/ Intervention Ideas and Tools for 
Teachers
http://www.studentprogress.org/
http://www.jimwrightonline.com/php/rti/rti_wire.php
http://www.ldonline.org/ LD Online Interventions
http://www.fcrr.org/Interventions/ Interventions for Struggling Readers
http://www.ncld.org/content/view/1002/389/ RTI Research and Parent Brochures
http://www.disciplinehelp.com/ You Can Handle Them All (interventions for 
home and classroom behavior issues) 

DIBELS:
http://dibels.uoregon.edu/ Official DIBELS site
http://www.teachers.cr.k12.de.us/~galgano/dibel2.htm On-line DIBELS 
Interactive Materials for Students
http://www.fcrr.org/Curriculum/studentCenterActivities.htm  K-1st
http://www.fcrr.org/Curriculum/studentCenterActivities23.htm  2nd-3rd
http://www.fcrr.org/Curriculum/studentCenterActivities45.htm  4th-5th
http://reading.uoregon.edu/ Big Ideas in Beginning Reading
http://technology.usd259.org/resources/dibels/coordinators.htm  DIBELS 
downloads for classroom management
 


Ellen:)/2nd grade/MI
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AIM: clossell
MODERATOR of yahoo group: ITEACHPRIMARY
Proud owner of:
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[MOSAIC] comprehension in-service

[cathymillr]

We just finished our comprehension strategy in-service today...and I think it 
went fairly well. We introduced the reading salad and think bubble lessons, 
along with some charts suggesting a focus on certain strategies at certain 
grade levels. One of our reading specialists saw Ellin Keene this summer and 
incorporated that research, specifically a suggestion of intensive study of one 
strategy per year. We are going to see how this format fits in with our state 
standards and district curriculum mapping efforts based on Understanding by 
Design. 

I would be happy to share the charts for alignment and strategy emphasis if any 
of you want to email me off list. 

Have a great weekend.

Cathy
K-5
DE

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[MOSAIC] comprehension in-service materials

[cathymillr]

Hi,all,
I sent comp. charts to several of you who requested them. One is in a Macintosh 
program that does sometimes not transfer well. Let me know if you have trouble. 

Also, if I missed anyone, don't hesitate to let me know. I tried to save all 
the message, but I will be I missed a few. 

We are still in revision mode, so any input will be appreciated. 

Cathy
DE
K-5


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Re: [MOSAIC] comprehension materials

[cathymillr]

Due to the overwhelming response to the comp. charts, Jennifer has asked that I 
post the charts on the tool list, and I have sent her the first one. It should 
be available soon.

Thanks for all the positive comments. 

Cathy

-Original Message-
From: Ninfa Seloff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 7:17 am
Subject: [MOSAIC] comprehension materials



Kindly send me a copy too.  Thank you inadvance for the comprehension in 
service 
materials.
Ninfa
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Re: [MOSAIC] Teachable moment on list etiquette

[cathymillr]

Keith,

For the record, I did ask that members reply to me off list. I know that some 
people sometimes hit the reply button too quickly and that causes a problem. 
Sorry for the inconvenience.



Cathy 

K-5

DE


-Original Message-
From: Keith Mack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group' 

Sent: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:33 am
Subject: [MOSAIC] Teachable moment on list etiquette




OK, another teachable moment due to the large number of "me toos" on the
comprehension materials post. I recently took the CBEST here in CA so in the
interest of preparing any of you for a high stakes test, here we go. 

Please do NOT send out a reply to this message.

 - - - - - - - - - - - 

We occasionally see kind members of our Mosaic list offer to provide a file.
It sounds like a "goldmine" for your classroom. What should you do? Select
the appropriate response from the choices below:

A. Hit reply and send a message to the entire Mosaic list thus asking over
1000 people to send you the materials.

B. Hit reply but REPLACE the list address with the address of the actual
person.

C. Call the White House and declare a national holiday.

D. Apply the Pythagorean theory to solve the problem. 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - 

And the correct answer is..."B". 

Please don't send mail to the entire list when requesting something from ONE
person. For help see: 
 

Most of you don't call EVERY parent in your school when ONE student answers
a question correctly. So please don't post to the ENTIRE list when there's
just ONE person that you need to contact.

Likewise if you are a person that offers help or materials on list, you can
help us by specifying that list members contact you "off list" and then
provide your email address in the message.

Thanks,

Keith Mack
Web Administrator for Mosaic List




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Re: [MOSAIC] Equivalent to Mosaic

[cathymillr]

Katie Wood Ray is great. However, the first people I read on writing were 
Nancie Atwell, Linda Rief, Lucy Calkins, Peter Elbow, the Donalds - Graves and 
Murray, Barry Lane. 



Cathy

K-5

DE


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 5:27 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Equivalent to Mosaic




I think that anything by Katie Wood Ray is excellent.  She uses a  similar 
approach to Mosaic.  Katie Wood Ray is the person that many  teachers involved 
with the PEBC use
 
Shelley Lawrence
Lower School Director
Sinai Akiba Academy



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Re: [MOSAIC] increasing reading rate

[cathymillr]

In doing the salad lesson with a group of fourth graders just this morning, we 
had a discussion about speed and prosody as they critiqued my "fake" reading. 
Since many of us are in the situation where fluency (as speed) is a measure we 
have to use (a la DIBELS and RtI), I am trying to make the best of it, while 
assuring that the message about "fake" reading from the metacognition lessons 
in Comprehension Connections comes through. These kids figured out right away 
that I was not really "reading" if I wasn't thinking at the same time. I try to 
keep the timed reading portion of lessons brief and spend most of my time on 
understanding.

Cathy
K-5
DE


-Original Message-
From: ljackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 8:02 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] increasing reading rate



I have been doing lots of reflection on how to increase reading rate, and we
are just getting started as a district in taking this on.  When it comes to
automaticity, I think it is a bit like math facts.  Whether it is truly fact
recall or speedy derivation, it does not matter as long as it is efficient.
We are really putting an emphasis on word study in our lower grades--not the
learning of words, but the learning of spelling patterns.  I still believe
that is more important than memorizing lists.  That said, there has to be a
bank of commonly known words for a child to use to anchor reading and that
bank has to grow.

One flashcard game that I sent home with primary kids was simple beyond
belief and although I laughingly called it 'flashcards in disguise', the
kids did not tire of it.  Imagine a 9x12 inch sheet of construction paper
divided into six equal spaces (2x3 grid), each space labeled with a number
from one to six.  In a baggie, what are truly flashcards--called game
cards-- which were the sight words under study (in duplication, so each word
appeared more than once). Cards are shuffled and distributed face down to
the six spaces.  A die is tossed and a card is drawn from the corresponding
stack.  If you read it, you keep it.  If others read it, fine and dandy, but
it goes back in the stack.  Winner has the most cards.  Can be extended with
word sorts.  

I hope you keep this conversation on list, as this is an important issue.
How best to increase rate without messaging the wrong message about reading?

Lori


On 10/28/07 5:02 PM, "gina nunley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I too have students who are focusing on increasing speed.  They are sixth
> graders whose strategy work is progressing well, and they love to read, but
> they're painfully aware that their rate is slower than most.
>  
> Do any of you have approaches you've used.  I only have 30 minutes with this
> group so I need something simple.  We were doing timed readings, but I didn't
> see much growth.  Perhaps I didn't give it a fair chance.  I have avoided good
> old fashioined flash cards with words, though I know a teacher who believes it
> develops automaticity.  Any ideas?
>  
> You can e-mail me out of the group at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you'd like.
>  
> Thanks!
> _
> Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ? together at last. ?Get it
> now.
> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL1006269710
> 33
> ___
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> 
> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
> 

-- 
Lori Jackson
District Literacy Coach & Mentor
Todd County School District
Box 87
Mission SD  57555
 
http:www.tcsdk12.org
ph. 605.856.2211


Literacies for All Summer Institute
July 17-20. 2008
Tucson, Arizona




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Re: [MOSAIC] increasing reading rate

[cathymillr]

I purchased the book I've DIBELED, Now What? last year and my husband left a 
note on it that said, "Now you have to clean it up!" Very true. 

I was hopeful that I would get some intervention ideas for my lowest achieving 
kindergartners from this book, but it basically says, "Buy this program, buy 
that program..." Very discouraging and so out of touch with how most kids learn 
and how real schools work.?

Cathy
K-5
DE


-Original Message-
From: Beverlee Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 6:07 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] increasing reading rate



My personal favorite is DIBBELS, as in Dibbles and Bits, Dibbles and Bits,  
Have 
too many and you'll ...
 
 



> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:04:16 -0600> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] increasing reading rate> > 
Tim participated in an active conversation regarding DIBELs (fondly known to> 
me 
as DRIBBELS) and shared this with the Mosaic group.> > Lori
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Re: [MOSAIC] Words Their Way

[cathymillr]

Great news about WTW. I am giving the spelling inventory this week to a small 
group of 4th grade struggling readers, then I plan to go from there. I have 
these kids based on dibels to work on fluency primarily, but I expanded to work 
on comprehension and word work. Thanks for the insight.

Cathy 
DE
k-5


-Original Message-
From: Kate Lino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 7:56 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Words Their Way



This is my first year to use WTW, but I have seen really good results so far. I 
ave the assessment at the beginning of the school year and just gave one at the 
eginning of the second 9 weeks to see if there was any progress. Almost all of 
y students made improvements, so that was really exciting to me to be able to 
ee the results of the program. I was also able to reorganize my groups  based 
n the data from the second assessment. I have four groups: one is focused on 
hort vowel sounds, one on diagraphs and blends, one on long vowel sounds and 
ne on inflected endings (I have a very diverse group of learners this year ... 
 lot of extremes). I have them bring their word sort cards to reading groups 
very day and the first five minutes they do their sorts. One day I might have 
hem do a speed sort, another day they may pair up with someone in the group who 
as the same word list and they may do a "no-peeking" sort with one another. The 
arents have been extremely supportive and seem to like the program, too. I 
ould go on and on about how much I like the program! I am seeing that it is not 
nly helping their spelling, but also helping in their decoding and reading. 
ope that helps!

ate
nd/NC

> > I would be interested in hearing from anyone who is currently using this 
rogram.? >

elp yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by 
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Re: [MOSAIC] Guided Reading for older students

[cathymillr]

Glad to see this question. I have done literature circles with second graders, 
but I ran the group myself. We usually start lit. circles at 4th grade, but I 
think it could happen earlier. And I don't think it has to be either/or. 



Cathy

DE

k-5


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 6:32 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Guided Reading for older students




A topic for discussion- When do we stop guided reading and move into  
literature circles and book clubs?
Maxine



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Re: [MOSAIC] How to Help Struggling Students

[cathymillr]

This sounds exactly like the middle school in which I used to work ( in Texas) 
- just a few struggling kids with no access to special services because of the 
"wealth" of the neighborhood. 

We were configured into teams with four or five teachers per team. In sixth 
grade, all students had a 45 minute reading class and a 45 minutes language 
arts (writing) class. One year, we did a two teacher team with about 50 kids. 
That was good for the slower kids just because they only had to deal with the 
expectations of two teachers and there was much integration. 

We had a talented and gifted class (required by district policy)for those who 
qualified and some students were required to take an extra remedial reading 
class in 7th and 8th grade, when only 45 minutes of lang. arts was required. No 
hard core ability grouping... and I believe that is why our students were 
successful. (However, math was ability grouped:-(.) ?

We had one teacher who was the "at-risk" teacher. She worked with students in 
her classroom after they had participated in a whole class lesson. Teams 
decided which students used this service. After the teacher had taught the 
whole group part of the lesson, students went to this room for assistance with 
independent work. 

Good luck.

Cathy
K-5
DE


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 6:34 pm
Subject: [MOSAIC] How to Help Struggling Students



My team of teachers and I have been discussing a relatively small group of  
students who are failing in most if not all academic areas.  These students  do 
not qualify for special education services. We are not a Title 1 School and  
we don't have a literacy coach or any push in / pull out services for students 
 who do not have an 
IEP.WE are the on;y middle school in our district and we serve about 750  
students in 6 - 8.So what do you all do in your schools?
 
Does anyone one have self contained sixth grade?
 
Any middle schools leveled or ability grouped?
 
Anyone hire special folks to work with at risk students?
 
Any thoughts or words of wisdom appreciated.
 
June in KY
 
 



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Re: [MOSAIC] small successes

[cathymillr]

Don't ya just love it when those "bad boys" come through for us?? I have always 
loved them the best!


-Original Message-
From: Chris Preston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Listserv 
; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 8:22 am
Subject: [MOSAIC] small successes



My non-reader, Abel, (who could not read a lick just 9 short weeks ago,) 
read his first complete paragraph out of the HM 3rd grader reading book 
yesterday. I was so proud of him! I wanted to stop class and call 
everyone in my pod, everyone in 2nd grade, all the Noon Yard Supervisors 
who write him referrals every single day!
Then, 3 paragraphs later, he gently (and unconsciously) corrected one of 
my better readers when Connor said OF (instead of ABOUT>) I was cracking 
up...but so proud I wanted to shout from the roof tops and scream! 
Hurrah! I am making a difference!

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Re: [MOSAIC] Please Help

[cathymillr]

I totally agree that Reading A-Z will help you get started. My struggling 
readers love the books. There are also fluency passages and lists of words to 
use for practice in the basics. 



Also, get to the library and help the students find books they like to read. 
Try some magazines and news articles as well...thinks the kids like to read 
about that are short.



Don't think you need a program...you just need to build your knowledge base! 
Mosaic of Thought is? a great start. 



There are many workshops offered by experts in the DC area. Check the Heinemann 
website for some listings.



Cathy

K-5, former middle school teacher

DE


-Original Message-
From: Joy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 9:35 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Please Help




To get up and running quickly and inexpensively, consider Reading A-Z 
(www.readingatoz.com)

Lauren Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Hi,

I am a first year special education teacher and am in desperate need of help
with some of my struggling readers. I am working with 6th grade students
and some of my students started with about 80 sight words at the beginning
of the year. The entire special education team is new to the school and we
are basically starting from scratch because all of the reading programs were
taken by the teachers who left. I need some intense remediation for these
students who are predominately labeled as LD. I would appreciate any
suggestions on what to do and what types of programs would best meet the
needs of my students. Also, one that either has trainings frequently and
close to Alexandria or that does not require any training. I hope I did
this correctly because this is my first post. Thank you so much for all of
your help!!!
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Joy/NC/4
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  How children learn is as important as what they learn: process and content go 
hand in hand. http://www.responsiveclassroom.org
   









   
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Re: [MOSAIC] Special Education Reading Programs

[cathymillr]

And if we look at the NRP research, it recommends very few hours of phonics 
instruction... I think twenty...and states that if intensive phonics has not 
worked by the end of second grade, something else needs to be tried. 



This is supposedly the science on which Reading First is based, but it does not 
match up. 



Cathy


-Original Message-
From: sheila eisen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 5:28 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Special Education Reading Programs




Our district also has a high population of ELL students, and our Special 
Education teachers use Wilson.  I think it's very phonics-based, and I have 
concerns with teaching specific sounds (like short vowels) to students who may 
not be pronouncing the words taught "correctly."  I would encourage you to look 
for a program that uses chunks, rather than isolated letter sounds.

Sheila


--- On Mon, 12/17/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Special Education Reading Programs
> To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
> Date: Monday, December 17, 2007, 2:25 PM
> You should definietly look at the Stevenson Language
> Program--specifically written to teach SPED students to
> read by association. It has never failed to work in my
> experience.? It's not fancy, but works when nothing
> else does!
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: underdown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
> Sent: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:51 pm
> Subject: [MOSAIC] Special Education Reading Programs
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> I am a literacy coach working in a middle school in a
> district that is deeply 
> committed to MOT strategies, but our self-contained SPED
> population is not 
> making AYP, thus this requestWe are going to adopt a
> reading program...it 
> is just a matter of which one. I don't necessarily
> agree with this idea, but 
> it is going to happen whether I like it or not. I
> desperately need some 
> suggestions for "tried and true" programs that
> are out there. Actually, my 
> first choice is Read 180 which we already have, but I'm
> not sure that they 
> will consider putting in another entire program for SPED.
> 
> I work with grades 6-8 in a district with a large ELL
> population. Any 
> suggestions? I feel the collective minds on this list have
> been excellent 
> problem solvers in the past. My research leads me to the
> following programs: 
> Language! Wilson, Slant and SRA. Does anyone use these
> programs? Are there 
> others we should consider? Can anyone help??
> 
> Barb
> Literacy Coach
> Melrose Park, IL
> 
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> 
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Re: [MOSAIC] streategy/lit. jobs

[cathymillr]

 I love these ideas, Gina. We are getting ready to do lit. circles in 4th and 
5th grade at my school, so I will definitely be trying out some of these. 

Cathy
K-5
DE


 


 

-Original Message-
From: gina nunley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 1:08 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] streategy/lit. jobs










I don't have any research on the use of literature circles and strategic 
reading 
jobs.  I have always done literature circles because I liked what I saw.  Kids 
owned the planning of the reading, the thinking about literary analysis, and 
the 
actual discussion.  It worked.
 
 
If you look at Harvey Daniel's jobs, they really were an example of strategic 
reading.  So here are the tweaks I made and the jobs I use
 
I kept Word Wizard  .  It is a place to keep working on the idea of reading to 
write.  That job collects the author's use of vivid verbs and one "new to me" 
or 
I just liked it word.   We also collect "bits of language".  The reader records 
a phrase, or sentence that grabbed him/her.   I ask the kids to do a version of 
Save the Last Word for Me.  Each member of the group tells the Wizard why 
he/she 
probably chose that bit of language. Then the WW shares, last, what was on 
her/his mind.
 
Summarizer  (this is the result of course of Determining Importance work)  This 
person opens the discussion and all team members can help revise the summary if 
they feel the need.  LOTS of great talk about what was truly important.
 
Visualizer  (records an imagery passage)  They then underline the key words 
that 
helped the reader "see" and then illustrate their vision.  The illustration 
should reflect the words the author used, but can have the reader's own twist.  
I am truly tough on looking at the underlined words and the illustration.  I 
found in the past that kids weren't actually attending to the word choice of 
the 
author and were creating their own original images.  Of course this changed the 
author's intended meaning.  During the lit. circle everyone studies the picture 
and looks to see that the image indeed reflects the words of the author.  I 
have 
heard interesting discussions, in which kids noted significant ideas were left 
out of a picture, which led to noting what was truly important.
 
Self-Questioner.  The person uses post-its to track the questions that pop into 
their mind.  Even if they have arrived an their own answer, they still ask the 
question in group.  This job often helps other kids realize that they too 
actually had a confusion or clunk that still hadn't been clarified.
 
Traits Tracker:  This capitalizes on making an inference.  I have taught the 
kids a range of trait and emotion words and they keep this in their folder.  
This job asks them to find evidence (a character's actions or words) that 
caused 
them to make an inference about the character's personality or feelings at the 
moment.  During the last discussion the kids are asked to write a paragraph for 
me noting the changes the character went through.
 
As you can see they're very much tied to Daniel's jobs, but I find the kids 
take 
the jobs deeper when I tie them to the strategy unit we have been doing, as 
well.
 
I used to just teach the jobs, without the emphasis on strategy lessons, and 
the 
discussion often fell flat.  
 
Gina 
6th grade LA
 
 
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[MOSAIC] read, write and talk in Santa Fe

[cathymillr]

Just curious...is anyone going to attend the Read, Write and Talk workshop in 
Santa Fe over President's day weekend? Three of us are going from our district. 
Would love to meet some of you in person.

Cathy
K-5
DE

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Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation

[cathymillr]

We are dealing with the same situation in experimenting with RtI this year, 
before it is required next year. It will be tough to find a comprehension 
assessment that we can do quickly enough to use for progress monitoring. Our 
older students are all over the map with the retell. Many of the very competent 
students summarize, which is a higher level skill, rather than retell. So their 
dibels scores look bad, but they can comprehend just fine. Since we will all be 
in the same boat very soon, we should all collaborate on the development of a 
comprehension assessment that deals with strategies. We are actually 
experimenting with the ones form Keene's assessment book. 



Cathy 

DE

K-5


-Original Message-
From: STEWART, L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:48 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation




Thanks for this message.  You just gave me my aha moment.  We moved to
DRA2 testing this year.  Our initial testing put the majority of our
kids below grade level, because we had not been teaching retell.  We
were teaching summarizing (which I still believe is the better skill to
teach).  Now that we are teaching retell the children are passing the
DRA2 with flying colors.  However, when we ask them to respond to text
we are able to clearly see that they are not necessarily comprehending
anything beyond a literal interpretation.  When are we going to get
these things right!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 9:18 AM
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Subject: [MOSAIC] rti conversation

Our district is implementing the tiering for rti as well as  thinking
about who needs more intensive instruction, but so far we have not had
any mandated progress monitoring methods. We check back after an IST-
Instructional support team- meeting, usually about 6-8 weeks, and see if
the  issues with the child have been resolved. Our problem with DIBELS
is that it  really doesn't seem to address comprehension issues for
older kids. If the  student can retell what they've read and use the
words from the story they get  credit. Yet, isn't that just assessing
working memory, not comprehension? They  only get 1 minute to talk about
the story. So, we really don't have a good  progress assessment that can
be used weekly or biweekly like we should for tier  3 kids. Does anyone
else have these issues?
Michelle- NY AIS 2-5 reading



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Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation

[cathymillr]

I have not looked extensively at AIMS web, but since dibels is free, $5 is a 
lot for us. Where on the AIMSweb site can I see some comprehension assessments?


-Original Message-
From: jkyingling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 9:10 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation



AIMSweb is similar to DIBELS but has a lot more information.  It gives
information on reading and math - along with reading comprehension and math
problem solving.  It does have a progress monitoring component. We've been
using DIBELS for the past several years and next year are switching to
AIMSweb because it has so much more and doesn't cost much more - I think
it's $5 per student.


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Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation

[cathymillr]

We are using DIBELS and will continue to do so, but we are having conversations 
now about how to go deeper into diagnosis of phonics/phonemic awareness 
concerns. Also, the gap between a good reading rate and a good score on the 
state test - which in Delaware is a least 50% higher level questions that 
require written answers - is a concern. The only thing that matters on it is 
higher level comprehension skills. 



The RtI requirements ask for a "universal screening instrument" and use the 
term "scientifically research based," so I am not hopeful that any district 
developed instrument will pass muster. However, we are still going to work on 
that. I think the people at our dept. of education will as well.



Cathy


-Original Message-
From: Ljackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 8:27 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation




Cathy,

I agree, we need to help each other out as much as possible with RtI.  Having 
just adopted the DRA2 for grades K05 (K-3 previously used the old version), our 
primary issue right out of the gate is fluency, and more specifically rate. I 
just met with our Exceptional Education director yesterday and we are concerned 
that RtI may force us to bring back DIBLES, which I helped put to rest last 
year.  One of our schools has purchased the new Fountas and Pinnell 
calculators, 
making it posible to easily caculate a rate score with every running record.  I 
suggested that we consider asking for a weekly running record for 'progress 
monitoring', rather than use the DIBLES.  Our teachers are already doing 
running 
records, so it looks like a way to naturally incorporate this rather unnatural 
process of timing.   We are going to see if this will fly.

A second issue of concern is related to phonemic awareness.  I think a wider 
review of the research (including what was knowingly excluded by the NRP) 
suggests a chicken and the egg conversation--which comes first, what is a 
bi-product of what.  I want to avoid having to use DIBELS and those darned 
nonsense words if possible.  Cathy, and others, how are you planning to address 
this concern?

Lori


- Original message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Date: 2008, 15, Friday Of February 15:01
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation

> 
> We are dealing with the same situation in experimenting with RtI this year, 
before it is required next year. It will be tough to find a comprehension 
assessment that we can do quickly enough to use for progress monitoring. Our 
older students are all over the map with the retell. Many of the very competent 
students summarize, which is a higher level skill, rather than retell. So their 
dibels scores look bad, but they can comprehend just fine. Since we will all be 
in the same boat very soon, we should all collaborate on the development of a 
comprehension assessment that deals with strategies. We are actually 
experimenting with the ones form Keene's assessment book. 
> 
> 
> 
> Cathy 
> 
> DE
> 
> K-5
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: STEWART, L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

> Sent: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:48 am
> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for this message.  You just gave me my aha moment.  We moved to
> DRA2 testing this year.  Our initial testing put the majority of our
> kids below grade level, because we had not been teaching retell.  We
> were teaching summarizing (which I still believe is the better skill to
> teach).  Now that we are teaching retell the children are passing the
> DRA2 with flying colors.  However, when we ask them to respond to text
> we are able to clearly see that they are not necessarily comprehending
> anything beyond a literal interpretation.  When are we going to get
> these things right!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 9:18 AM
> To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
> Subject: [MOSAIC] rti conversation
> 
> Our district is implementing the tiering for rti as well as  thinking
> about who needs more intensive instruction, but so far we have not had
> any mandated progress monitoring methods. We check back after an IST-
> Instructional support team- meeting, usually about 6-8 weeks, and see if
> the  issues with the child have been resolved. Our problem with DIBELS
> is that it  really doesn't seem to address comprehension issues for
> older kids. If the  student can retell what they've read and use the
> words from the story they get  credit. Yet, isn't that just assessing
> working memory, not comprehension? They  only get 1 minute to talk about
> the story. So, we really don't have a good  progress assessment that can
> be used weekly or biweekly like we should for tier  3 kids. Does anyone
> else have these issues?
> Michelle- NY AIS 2

Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation

[cathymillr]

We have had about four sessions of training from the state already and a part 
of each session has involved the state regulations. We were just at a meeting 
on Thursday and were updated as to changes that have been made recently. ?I am 
thinking - though I do not know this for sure - that each state will submit a 
plan to the feds to be approved. So, for right now, the states are working on 
their own regulations and making adjustments based on feedback. We have had 
community input sessions, but I have not attended any. 

Cathy
DE
K-5


-Original Message-
From: Ljackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 1:55 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation



The information we have is from our state department of ed.  I am wondering... 
is this going to be like Reading First and vary from state to state in terms of 
how it is interpretted?

Lori


- Original message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Date: 2008, 16, Saturday Of February 09:08
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation

> 
> We are using DIBELS and will continue to do so, but we are having 
conversations now about how to go deeper into diagnosis of phonics/phonemic 
awareness concerns. Also, the gap between a good reading rate and a good score 
on the state test - which in Delaware is a least 50% higher level questions 
that 
require written answers - is a concern. The only thing that matters on it is 
higher level comprehension skills. 
> 
> 
> 
> The RtI requirements ask for a "universal screening instrument" and use the 
term "scientifically research based," so I am not hopeful that any district 
developed instrument will pass muster. However, we are still going to work on 
that. I think the people at our dept. of education will as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Cathy
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ljackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

> Sent: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 8:27 am
> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cathy,
> 
> I agree, we need to help each other out as much as possible with RtI.  Having 
> just adopted the DRA2 for grades K05 (K-3 previously used the old version), 
our 
> primary issue right out of the gate is fluency, and more specifically rate. I 
> just met with our Exceptional Education director yesterday and we are 
concerned 
> that RtI may force us to bring back DIBLES, which I helped put to rest last 
> year.  One of our schools has purchased the new Fountas and Pinnell 
calculators, 
> making it posible to easily caculate a rate score with every running record.  
I 
> suggested that we consider asking for a weekly running record for 'progress 
> monitoring', rather than use the DIBLES.  Our teachers are already doing 
running 
> records, so it looks like a way to naturally incorporate this rather 
> unnatural 

> process of timing.   We are going to see if this will fly.
> 
> A second issue of concern is related to phonemic awareness.  I think a wider 
> review of the research (including what was knowingly excluded by the NRP) 
> suggests a chicken and the egg conversation--which comes first, what is a 
> bi-product of what.  I want to avoid having to use DIBELS and those darned 
> nonsense words if possible.  Cathy, and others, how are you planning to 
address 
> this concern?
> 
> Lori
> 
> 
> - Original message -
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
> Date: 2008, 15, Friday Of February 15:01
> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation
> 
> > 
> > We are dealing with the same situation in experimenting with RtI this year, 
> before it is required next year. It will be tough to find a comprehension 
> assessment that we can do quickly enough to use for progress monitoring. Our 
> older students are all over the map with the retell. Many of the very 
competent 
> students summarize, which is a higher level skill, rather than retell. So 
their 
> dibels scores look bad, but they can comprehend just fine. Since we will all 
be 
> in the same boat very soon, we should all collaborate on the development of a 
> comprehension assessment that deals with strategies. We are actually 
> experimenting with the ones form Keene's assessment book. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Cathy 
> > 
> > DE
> > 
> > K-5
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: STEWART, L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 
> 
> > Sent: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:48 am
> > Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks for this message.  You just gave me my aha moment.  We moved to
> > DRA2 testing this year.  Our initial testing put the majority of our
> > kids below grade level, because we had not been teaching retell.  We
> > were teaching summarizing (which I still believe is the better skill to
> > teach).  Now that we are teaching retell the children are passing the
> > DRA2 with flying colors.  Howev

Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation

[cathymillr]

We do not use the palm pilots or send our data to the website for analysis, so 
all it costs is paper, and, of course, most of my salary!! I would say DIBELS 
and RtI related duties are taking 90% of? my time right now. 



Cathy

K-5 Reading Specialist

DE


-Original Message-
From: jkyingling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 4:35 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation




For us DIBELS costs $2 per student.  How do you get it free?
Here's a link to the reading comprehension sample
http://www.aimsweb.com/uploaded/files/sample_maze.pdf
If the link doesn't work, I found it by clicking on the measures tab and
then the sample tab (found under the test name in the middle of the screen).
The comprehension part is a cloze activity.




> I have not looked extensively at AIMS web, but since dibels is free, $5 is
a lot for us. Where on the AIMSweb site can I see some comprehension
assessments?
>
>
>


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Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation

[cathymillr]

If you are only being charged one dollar per child, we may look into using the 
website for analysis. What do you get for one dollar? or two dollars?


-Original Message-
From: Deb Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group' 

Sent: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 4:52 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation



I wondering the same thing.  They charge the school district here, $1.00 a
kid.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jkyingling
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 4:36 PM
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] rti conversation

For us DIBELS costs $2 per student.  How do you get it free?
Here's a link to the reading comprehension sample
http://www.aimsweb.com/uploaded/files/sample_maze.pdf
If the link doesn't work, I found it by clicking on the measures tab and
then the sample tab (found under the test name in the middle of the screen).
The comprehension part is a cloze activity.




> I have not looked extensively at AIMS web, but since dibels is free, $5 is
a lot for us. Where on the AIMSweb site can I see some comprehension
assessments?
>
>
>


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Re: [MOSAIC] Basal in Readers Workshop?

[cathymillr]

We have Open Court and and a few of our teachers are experimenting with a 
literature circle approach. We are in the same boat you are - a mandated series 
that the district spent a lot of money on, but that doesn't meet the 
differentiated needs of all students. However, these are 4th and 5th grade 
teachers, so the phonics skills have pretty much already been taught. 



Here is how I have approached it in the past. For each unit, I would have 
students read one story together, teach some strategies with it, and in the 
case of second grade, phonics skills as well. Then students read one or two 
more stories in the unit in partners or literature circles and apply the 
strategies. These stories could also be chosen individually, more like 
workshop. 

Cathy 
K-5 
DE


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 9:05 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Basal in Readers Workshop?




I teach 2nd grade. How are you incorporating it?


> We use Open Court and I've been trying to incorporate it with strategy
> instruction but what grade do you teach??
>
> Tracy
>
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:58:13 -0800, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> My administrator decided in the beginning of the year that it was okay
>> for
>> us to forgo our purchased basal series (Open Court) and only use
>> literature in our readers workshop (woo hoo!!). Flash forward to now and
>> we are told that we must use them, whether it be for phonics,
>> literature,
>> etc. . . basically just use them, all this money was spent on them
>> ("what
>> we're supposed to do" is changed at least twice a year, so you can
>> imagine
>> our frustration!).
>>
>> Can anyone give me any advice or pointers or how they use their basal in
>> their classroom in conjunction with quality literature? We structure our
>> readers workshop based on comprehension strategies (i.e September we
>> work
>> on making connections etc.)If anyone out there, uses Open Court and a
>> readers workshop setting, that would even be more helpful.
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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>



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Re: [MOSAIC] STAR

[cathymillr]

I did an analysis of STAR scores, our state assessment, and DIBELS scores at 
the end of last year for second?through fifth grade. ?They lined up nearly 
perfectly in two grades,?were all over the place in the other two. I agree that 
STAR scores are?inflated, and the accompanying AR levels are inconsistent at 
best. 

That is why we shouldn't be judging a child, a reading series,?a school, a 
state...anything, based on one assessment.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 10:34 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] STAR



I have used STAR for a number of years. We administer it in the computer lab, 
but I only have 14 1st graders.  Before it is given I have a general idea of 
where I think the child is level wise. If the STAR scor is close to my own 
thinking, I start there. If there is a large desparity, I start where I think 
the child is and move up or down from there. After a few weeks I feel 
comfortable with each child's placement. It is my opinion that the STAR scores 
are somewhat inflated. This ifs fine by me because everyone has been measured 
by 
the same "stick" and it is very appealing to parents.  It may be important for 
you to know that STAR in no way affects a child' grade and the ultimate 
decision 
is always mine.   
Suzanne


 On Sat Mar  8 21:19 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent:

>
>I have found it very reliable when I test the students one on one, not when I 
do a mass testing in the lab. They just start picking anything unless I am 
there 
watching them, some I have read it to me aloud. We have lots of people say it 
is 
unreliable as well.
>Terry
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Beverlee Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 
>mosaic@literacyworkshop.org>
>Sent: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 7:06 pm
>Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] best iri
>
>
>
>Since Lori mentioned the STAR, I'd be interested in what you all think of the 
>validity of that test.  Generally, several of the teachers at my school don't 
>see it as accurate, by any means, but our library para believes it is highly 
>accurate.  I haven't ever had anything to do with it, so I'm a clean slate.  
>If 

>anyone would comment, I'd appreciate it.  Thanks.  Bev
>
>> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 15:55:57 -0700> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
>mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] best iri> > I think finding 
a 
>screening tool is a challenge when we are talking about teachers who deal with 
>larger numbers of students than a single classroom. Our ninth grade reading 
>teacher used the QRI this year. She conducted the readings in one on one 
>sessions with the students and used the comprehension questions as an 
interview. 
>She is working with the most troubled groups of readers, but generally has 
12-18 
>kids in her classes. Previously she had been required to use the STAR, which 
>none of us like, and she likes the QRI much better. I believe she used only 
>the 

>passage reading, and she did running records with a miscue eye. I don't 
>suppose 

>anything is perfect, and to be honest, I cannot see the majority of our middle 
>or high school teachers willing to do anything that requires 1:1 assessment.> 
>> 

>My husband taught two sections of 8th grade reading this year (with a 
>certification in Art Education and a master's in Technology Education, go 
>figure) and he used the QRI in a slightly different way. He administered an 
>on-level passage at the beginning of the year and kids did the questions 
>(typed 

>up with more room to respond) in writing. Then he re-administered passages 
>with 

>readers who did not score in the instructional and independent ranges. These 
>he 

>did orally. This amounted to some 2-6 readers, I believe, and that doesn't 
>seem 

>to me to be an overwhelming task. Our other high school reading teacher 
(working 
>a more confident and more able group) plans to administer in this way in the 
>coming year. > > I would so appreciate a continuing conversation about 
assessing 
>reading with students at the middle and high school level.> > Lori> > > > 
>- 

>Original message -> From: gina nunley [EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: 
>mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Date: 2008, 08, Saturday Of March 15:27> Subject: 
>[MOSAIC] best iri> > > Wow I actually took a course from Silvaroli at ASU back 
>in the early 80s.> > > > Our district reviewed IRIs about 7 years ago and 
>couldn't find big differences in them. In the end we were down to Jerry John's 
>and QRI. (Qualitative Reading Inventory) We chose QRI because they were going 
to 
>allow us to purchase 1 book for a grade level and then copy passages, whereas 
>Jerry John required us to purchase every teacher a book and we didn't have the 
>funds. We made kits from the QRI and gave one to each teacher.> > > > Overall 
>I 

>like it. It offers narrative and expository passages and there is a mixture of 
>implicit and

Re: [MOSAIC] STAR

[cathymillr]

Well said, Gina and Jill. I have read other research, maybe Alfred Tatum(?), 
about the competitive nature of many reading incentive programs being esp. bad 
for the very ones that need help the most -? struggling, minority boys. 
However, my very bright competitive nephew hated AR as well.

Cathy
DE
K-5


-Original Message-
From: Jill Wadkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:52 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] STAR



Excellent Point!  Alfie Kohn wrote a book titled Punished by Rewards.  In it he 
addresses AR, Book It (pizza Hut), and Six Flags Reading Club among other 
things.  

I agree with you regarding STAR.   Using this will only provide a level, and 
not 
a very accurate one at that.  

Jill Waldrep Wadkins
Academic Coach
Sanders Intermediate School
770.819.2568  ext. 223

>>> gina nunley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 3/10/2008 1:26 PM >>>
The teachers I know who like it are those who want a quick assessment.  I also 
personally feel like most of them aren't interested in truly KNOWING the child 
as a reader.  Getting a reading level does not guide instruction beyond putting 
the right book in their hands.  And I know more people who disagree with the 
accuracy of the STAR leveling than agree with it.  If I were to use it, I would 
only use it as a screener to decide who to QRI.  The other downside of STAR is 
that it is almost always connected with AR reading which I abhor.  I am a sixth 
grade teacher and you should hear the collective moan in my classroom from the 
kids who were forced to use AR in the elementary world.  The only students I 
know who liked it were the highly competitive ones who liked the leveling  
(they 
were also the profcient readers)  and the competition with points.  I do not 
believe it ever assisted a struggling reader in becoming more proficient.

> 
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Re: [MOSAIC] STAR

[cathymillr]

IRA and other reputable educational organizations strongly discourage the use 
of reading levels as ways to report on achievement...for this reason among 
others. I think the main reason we use them is because they seem to be the 
easiest for teachers and parents to understand, but that is not necessarily the 
case. The simple explanation I give is this. When a fifth grader scores at the 
12th grade level on something like star, it does not mean he is reading at a 
12th grade level, it means if a 12th grader took this test, he would get a 
score close to this. (I think I am pretty close on this explanation, but would 
welcome further clarification. It is always an issue.) 

Funny this has come up today. I was asked by a first grade teacher to look at a 
dibels fluency prog. monitoring chart of a middle of the road reader...long 
story short... I ended up looking at the dibels website for information on how 
they determine reading levels of passages. (They rely mostly on the Spache 
readability formula.) I read the research on this on the website,and the dibels 
people used about 7 - 8 different formulas, and the first grade passages ranged 
from early first to fourth.?You can pretty much choose a readability level to 
fit your needs, it seems!! 

So, I agree...no accurate reading level!

Cathy
K-5
DE



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 4:08 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] STAR



I have a question that has been bothering me.  How many on this list 
believe there is any such thing as an "accurate" reading level.  It is 
always iffy in my mind.  Depends so much on the schema people bring to a 
reading and the interest and engagement.  And in my experience kids read 
at different levels depending ont hings like genre.  So to act as if 
there is anything like "accurate" is not possible.  So administrators 
who want "levels" every 6 weels have no understanding of what reading 
really is - right?  Just wondering if others believe as I do.
  In mymind it is not an objective number EVER (except as a particular 
score on a particular occasion with a particular text and a particular 
reader)and certainly thinking there would be meaningful change in 6 
weeks on such a score is also crazy.  Now I know the number crunchers 
will believe they are getting numbers worth crunching but.


It is not that we can't get a broad general level - a place to start. 
But it would have to be considered along with information on the 
reader's experience with different kinds of texts, interests and 
expertise and so on.  But one "level" alone also can't stand for reading 
across topics and genres anyway.


Sally



> I agree with you regarding STAR.   Using this will only provide a 
> level, and not a very accurate one at that.
> Jill Waldrep Wadkins
> Academic Coach
> Sanders Intermediate School
> 770.819.2568  ext. 223
>

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Re: [MOSAIC] STAR

[cathymillr]

Thanks for the tip. 


-Original Message-
From: Beverlee Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 6:38 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] STAR



A FANTASTIC book is Bess Altwerger's Reading Fluency - Process, Practice, and 
Policy!!  Anyone using DIBELS needs to read it, because the research and 
anlysis 
in this book are amazing.  I suspect more books like this will come out and 
anyone having anything to do with policy needs to read each and every one of 
them.  It's published by Heinemann.  Bev 
 



> To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:32:32 -0400> From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] STAR> > IRA and other reputable 
educational organizations strongly discourage the use of reading levels as ways 
to report on achievement...for this reason among others. I think the main 
reason 
we use them is because they seem to be the easiest for teachers and parents to 
understand, but that is not necessarily the case. The simple explanation I give 
is this. When a fifth grader scores at the 12th grade level on something like 
star, it does not mean he is reading at a 12th grade level, it means if a 12th 
grader took this test, he would get a score close to this. (I think I am pretty 
close on this explanation, but would welcome further clarification. It is 
always 
an issue.) > > Funny this has come up today. I was asked by a first grade 
teacher to look at a dibels fluency prog. monitoring chart of a middle of the 
road reader...long story short... I ended up looking at the dibels website for 
information on how they determine reading levels of passages. (They rely mostly 
on the Spache readability formula.) I read the research on this on the 
website,and the dibels people used about 7 - 8 different formulas, and the 
first 
grade passages ranged from early first to fourth.?You can pretty much choose a 
readability level to fit your needs, it seems!! > > So, I agree...no accurate 
reading level!> > Cathy> K-5> DE> > > 
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Re: [MOSAIC] STAR

[cathymillr]

Thanks for the clarification. It is always so hard to explain that. 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 7:52 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] STAR



 
Cathy
I think it sounds like you are describing what some tests call "grade  
equivalents." IRA discourages those because they are easily confused with  
reading 
levels. A grade equivalent score of 12th grade on a fifth grade test  usually 
means that the child scored as well as the average 12th grader on the  fifth 
grade test. It does NOT mean the child is reading at the 12th grade level. 
Jennifer
In a message dated 3/10/2008 6:33:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

When a  fifth grader scores at the 12th grade level on something like star, 
it does  not mean he is reading at a 12th grade level, it means if a 12th 
grader took  this test, he would get a score close to this. (I think I am 
pretty 

close on  this explanation, but would welcome further clarification. It is 
always an  issue.) 







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Re: [MOSAIC] Payne/Bomer at MRA

[cathymillr]

This reminds me of the prior knowledge I have with other educators quite 
frequently. My position is that ALL kids have some prior knowledge about common 
topics ( family, friendship, etc.) but the knowledge they have may be very 
diverse, and it may not match our expectations. No matter what, we can't 
possibly provide all students with the same prior knowledge before we begin 
discussing a topic. 

Cathy
DE K-5


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 8:32 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Payne/Bomer at MRA



I don't have a whole lot in my notes, but here is  what I remember. He talked 
about working in one of the schools in Texas where  all of the children were 
Spanish speaking and the SES was very low. There was a  boy, I don't remember 
what he called him so I'll just call him Joe. Joe was a  kid that seemed to be 
destined for failure and didn't have much interest in  school or reading.  
But in talking to him they found that he was building a  motorcycle from 
scratch 

in his garage and read motorcycle manuals and  visited lots of websites to 
read instructions on how to build motorcycles (of  course I remember this part 
being a biker chick myself : )
Randy said, "How are we getting school literacy to  match with the 
literacy children are using outside of school?
...deficit thinking leads to damaging education...it assumes something is  
missing."
 
Hope this helps.
 
Nancy 
 



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Re: [MOSAIC] Payne/Bomer at MRA

[cathymillr]

 Yes, we do need to provide what is missing, but we need to value the prior 
knowledge they bring to the discussion, and allow them to fit new things into 
their schema. 


 


 

-Original Message-
From: Beverlee Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 8:54 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Payne/Bomer at MRA










BUT the implication is that what they're "missing" is what we provide.  In some 
cases, schema as best as possible, in some cases (Ruby would say) the security 
and relationships that may be the most important of all.

> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:51:24 -0400> To: 
mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Payne/Bomer at MRA> > > In a 
message dated 3/16/2008 8:44:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:> > but the knowledge they have may be very diverse,> > > which brings 
us 
back to why this is so important to comprehension. If we > don't give them 
texts 
that are relevant to their lives and they are interested > in, they are going 
to 
have a much harder with comprehension. That is what > Randy is saying. They 
aren't necessarily missing anything. We just aren't meeting > their needs.> > 
Nancy > > > > **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL 
Money & > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf000301)> 
___> Mosaic mailing list> 
Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go 
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Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > 
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Re: [MOSAIC] word decoding in 11th grade student

[cathymillr]

 The NRP research on phonics suggests that with older students (and this really 
just deals with elementary), phonics instruction helps with word reading - in 
isolation - but contributes only weakly to helping with text reading or 
spelling. So... not much support there. I would let this student choose 
interesting materials and work with fluency and comprehension on those pieces. 
I always love using poetry with struggling students, because it can be brief, 
less intimidating, and still require higher level comprehension. 

Cathy
K-5
de


 


 

-Original Message-
From: Ljackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 9:51 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] word decoding in 11th grade student










I would strongly suspect phonics would shut her down pretty fast.  Can you use 
something she is passionate about to help her out?  Song lyrics, 
poetry--something she can access--and begin there? Work from the known to 
unknown, work in phonics and morphology in the context of something meaningful 
to her.

Lori


- Original message -
From: Denise Dole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008, 16, Sunday Of March 18:24
Subject: [MOSAIC] word decoding in 11th grade student

>  
> 
> Hello, I have a student in 11th grade who uses only context and
> 
> initial letter of words to decode or recognize words. Her spelling is
> 
> very poor. Currently she is having great difficulty in her
> 
> Philosophy class. I believe the text is too difficult and she isn't
> 
> understanding enough to use context to assist word recognition.I believe she 
has poor phonemic awareness, is that possible for an 11th grade student?What 
are 
some instructional methods I can use to teach her to decode words. What 
approach 
would be most effective, phonics or morphological strategies? Any other?Can 
anyone suggest activities to use with this student? Thank you
> 
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> 
> 


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