Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Thursday 09 Jan 2003 6:46 pm, Anne Wilson wrote: This is the same for 8.2 and 9.0 (i just checked). Open KMail Open a composer window (New or Reply) Settings Configure Toolbars Highlight the 'spelling' option in the left 'Available actions' pane. Click the [-] arrow button to move it to the 'Current actions' pane. Click [OK]. Well - I've done that now. I think the reason I missed it is because the options are different, based on whether you are in composer or not. All I have to do now is configure my memory to hit the button. Don't suppose you have any tricks for that one ;-) Anne -- A (not very good) suggestion, Anne. KMail - settings - identity - signature. In the signature box, enter something like CHECK SPELLING This will appear on each message you compose, as a reminder. All you have to do then, is to remember to delete it before you send the message. I have no idea how to remind you to do that Cheers Keith Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
All I have to do now is configure my memory to hit the button. Don't suppose you have any tricks for that one ;-) Anne -- A (not very good) suggestion, Anne. KMail - settings - identity - signature. In the signature box, enter something like CHECK SPELLING This will appear on each message you compose, as a reminder. All you have to do then, is to remember to delete it before you send the message. I have no idea how to remind you to do that Good try, Keith, but it would take more than that to get my grey cells working, I think. BTW, I'm getting a '--' between your quoted text and your reply. This has the effect of your reply being treated as a sig, when I hit the reply button, so the only way I can quote it is to copy it in, which doesn't mark up the tree properly. If you can find what's putting it there, it would be better removed, I think Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
Thanks Anne! On Friday 10 January 2003 2:21 pm, Anne Wilson wrote: On Friday 10 Jan 2003 2:18 pm, Keith Powell wrote: On Friday 10 January 2003 11:26 am, Anne Wilson wrote: SNIP BTW, I'm getting a '--' between your quoted text and your reply. This has the effect of your reply being treated as a sig, when I hit the reply button, so the only way I can quote it is to copy it in, which doesn't mark up the tree properly. If you can find what's putting it there, it would be better removed, I think Sorry, Anne. Just left that in so that you can see that all's well :) Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 08:29, Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 08 Jan 2003 6:45 pm, Michael Adams wrote: I actually have achieved something usefull in this respect. I have a spell checker icon in kmail composer windows. If you're serious, please tell us more Anne Sorry, i'll explain, the icon is a button on the taskbar. Configured it there somehow months ago. -- Michael Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
Charlie wrote: On January 6, 2003 06:55 am, Robin Turner wrote: snip If people remember to put OT in the header, yes. However, I'm not sure how you do it client-side to prevent the message from being downloaded in the first place, which is the real problem for people with low (and maybe expensive) bandwidth. The client-side doesn't mind receiving a couple of OT messages but unfortunately the action must be implemented by the sender of the message. If the OT gets too frequent; as it sometimes does on one of the lists I'm subscribed to, I just activate an OT pop filter in K-Mail and it never leaves the mail server. Wouldn't that be nice if the POP mail system could do that! In my experience, using Netscape and Mozilla mail, I either download all the messages from the ISP or none. Usually (once a week or thereabouts) I'll use the ISP's web-mail interface and delete the 'download later' messages after browsing through them for any interesting tidbits. Would love to do that but decent bandwidth in this country is non existent and expensive to boot to use the POTS. I do not want to be a nuisance to others, but nor should they be a nuisance to me. I'd never characterize Anne as any sort of nuisance. The occasional OT on this list is nearly always fun; at least until some list Nazi gets a wild hair across his arse. The 'wild hair' was actually across my brain and wallet when I realized I had just spent a fortune downloading a whole lot of OT messages. Quite. I don't mind people requesting that a discussion should be continued elsewhere, but they should be polite about it, especially when some of the participants have paid their dues on this list enough to be allowed to indulge in a little silliness on occasion. Hear ,Hear Total agreement. If I recall rightly, the whole thing started with a question about KDE or GNOME - that is one subject we should definitely ban ;-) CONTINUED discussion needs banning yes, as I mean, how long/many messages can it take to convince someone it is up to personal preference. That was one. Another was a (sort of) reference to a tag at the end of a post mentioning that I was going to see Star Trek Nemesis on opening night. I dropped the subject in deference to others that hadn't seen it yet, but wanted to, so I wouldn't spoil it for them. I am sure some Trekkers are glad you didn't spoil it for them. I personally do not think it has anything to do with the linux [newbie] group. I didn't think much of the movie BTW. I'm glad it wasn't my money that paid admission for it. g Sir Robin -- Hylton Conacher - Registered Linux user # 229959 Using Linux Mandrake 9.0 with KDE 3 on a 2.4.19-16mdk kernel Licenced Windows user Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Thursday 09 Jan 2003 10:17 am, Michael Adams wrote: On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 08:29, Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 08 Jan 2003 6:45 pm, Michael Adams wrote: I actually have achieved something usefull in this respect. I have a spell checker icon in kmail composer windows. If you're serious, please tell us more Anne Sorry, i'll explain, the icon is a button on the taskbar. Configured it there somehow months ago. I'd still like to know more :) It sounds like something that could be useful to many of us. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
POP3 mail filtering [was: Re: [newbie] OT's on this list]
Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 09 Jan 2003 8:58 am, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote: Wouldn't that be nice if the POP mail system could do that! In my experience, using Netscape and Mozilla mail, I either download all the messages from the ISP or none. Are you sure it doesn't? I'm sure I used just that to get rid of spam from a certain address, and mine is a pop account. I'm using KMail, and I'm sure it was simple to activate there. AFAIK, Mozilla does not allow server-side mail filtering - the only options are to download everything, or only messages under a certain size (not very useful for spam filtering, since the problem is lot's of little messages, not one or two big ones). On the positive side, Mozilla/Netscape allows you the option of leaving messages on the server but having them deleted there when they are deleted locally - very useful when you're logging on from different computers. The radical solution is to install filtering software on your server account, but most ISPs won't allow that, I suppose. Some webmail providers allow you to set filters from the webmail client. Another possibility is if your server allows telnet access, telnet in, look at your mail with something like pine, delete everything that looks uninteresting, then open the rest with your favourite mail client (I do this a lot to clean up my less used accounts - e.g. a cgi-bin account). Sir Robin -- Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun doing it. - Linus Torvalds Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: POP3 mail filtering [was: Re: [newbie] OT's on this list]
little messages, not one or two big ones). On the positive side, Mozilla/Netscape allows you the option of leaving messages on the server but having them deleted there when they are deleted locally - very useful when you're logging on from different computers. I really miss this one in Evolution. I hope Miguel De Icaza is suscribed to this list. Adolfo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: POP3 mail filtering [was: Re: [newbie] OT's on this list]
I have a windows based mail client The Bat! Which can do selective downloading of mail. You just create filters for selective download, as well as a selective download based on file sizes. If The Bat! Can do it I'm sure other email software should be able to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ITS Internal Extension : 5806 Direct Dial: 0870 754 5806 -Original Message- From: Robin Turner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 09 January 2003 13:44 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: POP3 mail filtering [was: Re: [newbie] OT's on this list] Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 09 Jan 2003 8:58 am, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote: Wouldn't that be nice if the POP mail system could do that! In my experience, using Netscape and Mozilla mail, I either download all the messages from the ISP or none. Are you sure it doesn't? I'm sure I used just that to get rid of spam from a certain address, and mine is a pop account. I'm using KMail, and I'm sure it was simple to activate there. AFAIK, Mozilla does not allow server-side mail filtering - the only options are to download everything, or only messages under a certain size (not very useful for spam filtering, since the problem is lot's of little messages, not one or two big ones). On the positive side, Mozilla/Netscape allows you the option of leaving messages on the server but having them deleted there when they are deleted locally - very useful when you're logging on from different computers. The radical solution is to install filtering software on your server account, but most ISPs won't allow that, I suppose. Some webmail providers allow you to set filters from the webmail client. Another possibility is if your server allows telnet access, telnet in, look at your mail with something like pine, delete everything that looks uninteresting, then open the rest with your favourite mail client (I do this a lot to clean up my less used accounts - e.g. a cgi-bin account). Sir Robin -- Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun doing it. - Linus Torvalds Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: POP3 mail filtering [was: Re: [newbie] OT's on this list]
On Thursday 09 Jan 2003 1:44 pm, Robin Turner wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 09 Jan 2003 8:58 am, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote: Wouldn't that be nice if the POP mail system could do that! In my experience, using Netscape and Mozilla mail, I either download all the messages from the ISP or none. Are you sure it doesn't? I'm sure I used just that to get rid of spam from a certain address, and mine is a pop account. I'm using KMail, and I'm sure it was simple to activate there. AFAIK, Mozilla does not allow server-side mail filtering - the only options are to download everything, or only messages under a certain size (not very useful for spam filtering, since the problem is lot's of little messages, not one or two big ones). On the positive side, Mozilla/Netscape allows you the option of leaving messages on the server but having them deleted there when they are deleted locally - very useful when you're logging on from different computers. Ah - that explains it. It's so long since I used Mozilla mail that I forgot that. As I said, I used it in KMail, which, under settings, has Configure Pop Filters. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 23:35, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 09 Jan 2003 10:17 am, Michael Adams wrote: On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 08:29, Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 08 Jan 2003 6:45 pm, Michael Adams wrote: I actually have achieved something usefull in this respect. I have a spell checker icon in kmail composer windows. If you're serious, please tell us more Anne Sorry, i'll explain, the icon is a button on the taskbar. Configured it there somehow months ago. I'd still like to know more :) It sounds like something that could be useful to many of us. Anne This is the same for 8.2 and 9.0 (i just checked). Open KMail Open a composer window (New or Reply) Settings Configure Toolbars Highlight the 'spelling' option in the left 'Available actions' pane. Click the [-] arrow button to move it to the 'Current actions' pane. Click [OK]. -- Michael Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:46, Anne Wilson wrote: This is the same for 8.2 and 9.0 (i just checked). Open KMail Open a composer window (New or Reply) Settings Configure Toolbars Highlight the 'spelling' option in the left 'Available actions' pane. Click the [-] arrow button to move it to the 'Current actions' pane. Click [OK]. Well - I've done that now. I think the reason I missed it is because the options are different, based on whether you are in composer or not. All I have to do now is configure my memory to hit the button. Don't suppose you have any tricks for that one ;-) Anne No sorry. I'm one for letting it slip as well. Then my spilling eras awl get threw, gust ass wall i chequed these won baa four pasting. No spilling eras her! -- Michael Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to the list for posting as I have. Not because I feel that my opinions are wrong, I don't. But because this really isn't the proper forum to vent them. I waited for as long as I was going to before posting. Waiting for this to die off. I'm sure the intention of this thread was not to cause disparity, or dissension among this group. I understand that uncertainity raises the stress level of all, And it wasn't my intention to add more feul to the fire. At some point, I just simply get tired of being told that we American's are after nothing but oil, land, and the all mighty dollar. That our motives are always self driven, That we are the cause of the world's woes. It seems we are deeply dispiesed by most nations, I would agree some of that is due to failed foreign policy. Certainly not all. I might suggest envy plays a role as well. Is it at all possible that perhaps we want to remove Saddam because he is developing weapons of M.D, Or because he is developing biological weapons, or because he also was involved in the 9 /11 attack, Or because he kills and enslaves his own people, Or because, like most of the Arab nations, women are treated as nothing more than slaves ? Are you all comfortable with this,willing to let it continue, as long as the filthy Americans don't make a grab for the oil ? Had we wished to own a Middle Eastern country 1978- 80 Iran certainly justified a military takeover. I might remind you that Saudia Arabia would be drinking their crude oil, or sea water were it not for the desalianation plants we built. Or that Europe would be German owned and operated if not for the filthy Americans. In fact, some of my Father's friends lie buried in the country were this distro was crafted. We are not perfect, We make plenty of mistakes, What was done to the blacks here is indefensible, There is no excuse for it, It was just wrong. If this is somewhat jumbled together, forgive me. It's 4:10 A.M. As I write this. Having recently crawled out of a warm bed to get ready for work. This will hopefully be my last post in this thread. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:02, Robin Turner wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: You hit us at the wrong time, Andy. There is usually a bit of OT, but not much. This last 2 days have been most unusual. However, things have been a bit quiet in the past few weeks. The norm, without much OT, is 200 - 250 posts a day. The point of the OT's is to help newbies learn how to filter mail very quickly. My estimate of normal mail is slightly under 100 a day, Anne. More when you get Expert list as well. Welcome to the community Andy. -- Michael Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Wednesday 08 Jan 2003 10:28 am, Michael Adams wrote: On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:02, Robin Turner wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: You hit us at the wrong time, Andy. There is usually a bit of OT, but not much. This last 2 days have been most unusual. However, things have been a bit quiet in the past few weeks. The norm, without much OT, is 200 - 250 posts a day. The point of the OT's is to help newbies learn how to filter mail very quickly. My estimate of normal mail is slightly under 100 a day, Anne. More when you get Expert list as well. Welcome to the community Andy. I would say around 100 a day since Thanksgiving, but much much more before that. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Wednesday 08 January 2003 05:28 am, you wrote: On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:02, Robin Turner wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: You hit us at the wrong time, Andy. There is usually a bit of OT, but not much. This last 2 days have been most unusual. However, things have been a bit quiet in the past few weeks. The norm, without much OT, is 200 - 250 posts a day. The point of the OT's is to help newbies learn how to filter mail very quickly. My estimate of normal mail is slightly under 100 a day, Anne. More when you get Expert list as well. Welcome to the community Andy. The rants are easier on the eye with a spell check, though. And, welcome from here, Andy. Lee -- Registered Linux user #223705 Give me ambiguity or give me something else. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Wednesday 08 Jan 2003 11:19 am, Lee wrote: On Wednesday 08 January 2003 05:28 am, you wrote: On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:02, Robin Turner wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: You hit us at the wrong time, Andy. There is usually a bit of OT, but not much. This last 2 days have been most unusual. However, things have been a bit quiet in the past few weeks. The norm, without much OT, is 200 - 250 posts a day. The point of the OT's is to help newbies learn how to filter mail very quickly. My estimate of normal mail is slightly under 100 a day, Anne. More when you get Expert list as well. Welcome to the community Andy. The rants are easier on the eye with a spell check, though. And, welcome from here, Andy. Though I have to say that I had automatic spellchecking on all outgoing mail when I used Netscape 6 under windows. KMail doesn't seem to allow this, and I usually forget to manually check. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Wednesday 08 January 2003 06:02 am, you wrote: On Wednesday 08 Jan 2003 11:19 am, Lee wrote: On Wednesday 08 January 2003 05:28 am, you wrote: On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:02, Robin Turner wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: Though I have to say that I had automatic spellchecking on all outgoing mail when I used Netscape 6 under windows. KMail doesn't seem to allow this, and I usually forget to manually check. Anne You're doing fine, Anne. Truthfully, I would give much for a spell check (reliable) for Kmail. I have spent a lifetime misspelling the same words. Lee I Registered Linux user #223705 Give me ambiguity or give me something else. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Thu, 09 Jan 2003 00:02, Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 08 Jan 2003 11:19 am, Lee wrote: On Wednesday 08 January 2003 05:28 am, you wrote: On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:02, Robin Turner wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: You hit us at the wrong time, Andy. There is usually a bit of OT, but not much. This last 2 days have been most unusual. However, things have been a bit quiet in the past few weeks. The norm, without much OT, is 200 - 250 posts a day. The point of the OT's is to help newbies learn how to filter mail very quickly. My estimate of normal mail is slightly under 100 a day, Anne. More when you get Expert list as well. Welcome to the community Andy. The rants are easier on the eye with a spell check, though. And, welcome from here, Andy. Though I have to say that I had automatic spellchecking on all outgoing mail when I used Netscape 6 under windows. KMail doesn't seem to allow this, and I usually forget to manually check. Anne I actually have achieved something usefull in this respect. I have a spell checker icon in kmail composer windows. For Christmas Mr Developer i would like the spell checker to ignore any line starting with '' that would reduce the hits to under one third. -- Michael Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Wednesday 08 Jan 2003 6:45 pm, Michael Adams wrote: I actually have achieved something usefull in this respect. I have a spell checker icon in kmail composer windows. If you're serious, please tell us more Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
s wrote: You know, it's not the ot's that bothers me, it those posts with signatures over the usually acceptable 4 lines. There's a couple on here with 10 - 15 lines in their sigs. Talk about inconsideration! Where does this four-line convention come from? A typical sig might consist of: Witty quotation Full name, title, honorifics etc. Snail mail address Website URL Even is you miss out the quotation (which is the only thing of interest in many posts), it's still hard to get the rest onto four lines. Sir Robin Longsig -- Chen Shuo, the time has come for action! My daughter Zia has been stolen by the evil Wolf Jaw school, and they mean to practice their spiritually incorrect and deadly martial arts style on her. - Tad Williams Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 21:35, robin wrote: s wrote: You know, it's not the ot's that bothers me, it those posts with signatures over the usually acceptable 4 lines. There's a couple on here with 10 - 15 lines in their sigs. Talk about inconsideration! Where does this four-line convention come from? A typical sig might consist of: Witty quotation Full name, title, honorifics etc. Snail mail address Website URL Even is you miss out the quotation (which is the only thing of interest in many posts), it's still hard to get the rest onto four lines. Sir Robin Longsig If my ancient brain fires the proper neural synaptic pathways correctly and remembers - the four line sig originated in newsgroups and migrated into mailing lists quite some time ago...but that was when anal-retentiveness actually had significant meaning other than what it denotes now - which is merely anal-retentiveness... BTW, I knocked down my email sig just to keep the ultra-conservatives from burning a wooden cross on me lawn... -- kuhn media australia - kma.0catch.com - stephen katherine kuhn -PC/Mac/Linux/Consulting/eMarketing- * linux user: 267497 * rh 7.3+ * From listening comes wisdom and from speaking repentance. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
At 12:22 06/01/03 +, you wrote: It was never my intention to set off such a long OT, but it is harmless. For those who find it a problem it is a simple matter to set a filter that ignores such posts - correct me if I'm wrong? ... Hi, I've been on this list for 2 days. I'm a newbie to MD, trying to convert from Windoze - Among many other things I've not got the SM56 modem going yet - guess why! BG. However I use a dial up connection, and my access time has gone up an order of magnitude with downloading 500+ emails from this list in 2 days. I haven't looked at the percentage of OTs to 'real' stuff, but it's not at all helpful to newbies. There appear to be helpful hints in there but finding them is not easy. I wonder how many other newbies are being put off by the sheer volume of OT. I am certainly wondering whether continuing here is worthwhile - the noise to signal ratio is too high at present. I shall persist for a short time to see what the norm is - or even whoG Regards, Andy. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Tuesday 07 Jan 2003 9:56 am, Andy Micklethwaite wrote: At 12:22 06/01/03 +, you wrote: It was never my intention to set off such a long OT, but it is harmless. For those who find it a problem it is a simple matter to set a filter that ignores such posts - correct me if I'm wrong? ... Hi, I've been on this list for 2 days. I'm a newbie to MD, trying to convert from Windoze - Among many other things I've not got the SM56 modem going yet - guess why! BG. However I use a dial up connection, and my access time has gone up an order of magnitude with downloading 500+ emails from this list in 2 days. I haven't looked at the percentage of OTs to 'real' stuff, but it's not at all helpful to newbies. There appear to be helpful hints in there but finding them is not easy. I wonder how many other newbies are being put off by the sheer volume of OT. I am certainly wondering whether continuing here is worthwhile - the noise to signal ratio is too high at present. I shall persist for a short time to see what the norm is - or even whoG You hit us at the wrong time, Andy. There is usually a bit of OT, but not much. This last 2 days have been most unusual. However, things have been a bit quiet in the past few weeks. The norm, without much OT, is 200 - 250 posts a day. The sheer amount of info here is a bit 'can't see the wood for the trees'. I suggest that you start by setting a filter (or 2) to move newbie posts containing words or phrases that mean they are most likely to be of interest to you, with the filter moving them to a newbie folder. Delete the rest of the incoming stuff, for now. You can change your setup when you are ready for more. HTH Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Tuesday 07 January 2003 04:56 am, you wrote: At 12:22 06/01/03 +, you wrote: It was never my intention to set off such a long OT, but it is harmless. For those who find it a problem it is a simple matter to set a filter that ignores such posts - correct me if I'm wrong? ... Hi, I've been on this list for 2 days. I'm a newbie to MD, trying to convert from Windoze - Among many other things I've not got the SM56 modem going yet - guess why! BG. However I use a dial up connection, and my access time has gone up an order of magnitude with downloading 500+ emails from this list in 2 days. I haven't looked at the percentage of OTs to 'real' stuff, but it's not at all helpful to newbies. There appear to be helpful hints in there but finding them is not easy. I wonder how many other newbies are being put off by the sheer volume of OT. I am certainly wondering whether continuing here is worthwhile - the noise to signal ratio is too high at present. I shall persist for a short time to see what the norm is - or even whoG Regards, Andy. Maybe we can start an off topic list that people can optionally subscribe to then the newbie and expert lists can be more strictly policed.We could call it Mandrake Off Topic -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Michael Shinobi a.k.a. 'alfalfa' Mandrake 8.2 Kernel-2.4.18-8.1mdk Linux user #298896 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://micronuke.tripod.com/ 01/07/2003 02:37:29 PM 2:37pm up 4:39, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
Andy, I've been on the list when I have time for about six months. Mail volume has been DOWN, possibly because of everyone being busy of the Christmas/New Years holidays. It's best to FILTER your messages so business/personal/mandrake mail all goes to its own box, that way, even if you get too busy to read Mandrake mail, you will still get your mail needed for daily life/business. The current 3 OT topics have been UNUSUAL...Often there are weeks with none or just a little comment on the bottom of a post on hardware. My guess is OT is normally only 1% (one percent) of total volume. My advice is drop this forum UNLESS you truly want to learn...Mail volume will not likely go down We on the list could help EVERYONE by ONLY QUOTING WHAT IS NEEDED IN RESPONDING TO A QUESTION/COMMENT...That will save much more online time that cutting OT's... noise to signal ratio is too high at present. I shall persist for a short time to see what the norm is - or even whoG Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
Anne Wilson wrote: You hit us at the wrong time, Andy. There is usually a bit of OT, but not much. This last 2 days have been most unusual. However, things have been a bit quiet in the past few weeks. The norm, without much OT, is 200 - 250 posts a day. A good point. The two major OT threads are: 1. Banter about Star Trek. You're bound to get that sooner or later on any geeky list - it's just the way we are! 2. Arguments about American politics and the incipient war in the Middle East. I agree that this is totally OT, but on the other hand, there is a war about to start. Personally I'd rather find out about what my fellow Mandrake users think about a war that has the potential to kill me than read about configuration problems for hardware I don't have. Let's keep the OT problem in proportion. 90% of on-topic posts are of little or no interest to me, because I don't have the problem they are describing and can't answer it. I accept this, because this is a general Mandrake list, not a list for people who have the same hardware and software interests as me. I also accept that there will be a number of OT posts which also do not interest me. Sir Robin -- Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun doing it. - Linus Torvalds Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 19:02, Robin Turner wrote: 1. Banter about Star Trek. You're bound to get that sooner or later on any geeky list - it's just the way we are! 2. Arguments about American politics and the incipient war in the Middle East. I agree that this is totally OT, but on the other hand, there is a war about to start. Personally I'd rather find out about what my fellow Mandrake users think about a war that has the potential to kill me than read about configuration problems for hardware I don't have. Excellent point, Robin. We are all human beings, first and foremost, not computer systems. Human life should be valued above all else, perhaps even above the topic of the mailing list. You can have the best damn list advice in the world, but if you are choking and expiring on the floor from radioactive mustard gas or anthrax spores, the advice doesn't mean much of a shite. A little myopia can be good for mental focus; a lot just plain makes you blind. Let's keep the OT problem in proportion. 90% of on-topic posts are of little or no interest to me, because I don't have the problem they are describing and can't answer it. I accept this, because this is a general Mandrake list, not a list for people who have the same hardware and software interests as me. I also accept that there will be a number of OT posts which also do not interest me. Sir Robin True again. One thing about this list that has always been attractive to me is how it allows the individuals to be individuals. CMG was describing a mailing list to me not too long ago that required all posts be screened by a moderator before they were released to the list. Now that's beyond Nazi; that's just plain nuts. When I reflect on the merits of this list and that one, to me it looks like the difference between a dictatorship and a democracy. I think that most everybody here being adult, we all have the right to make judgements about what to post and what not to post, and what the list is all about. Most of the time, after the emotions are played out, the crew here gets right back to the business at hand, most of the time with much greater enthusiasm as before; probably because they've finally pulled the corncob out of their @ss and it's not distracting them any more. Sometimes an OT conflict will pull new members right in out of the woodwork, or reawaken list members that were dozing off. Everybody on the list has the desire and maturity to stay on task when needed, that's not the real problem. The real problem is that they are not given the credit for having the desire and maturity to stay on task, before the OT's are attacked. Instead of handling the OT's in a more mature manner; which is to let the OT's dump the heart baggage, positive or negative, and get it out in the open. Even with the conflict, and perhaps because of it, this list is one of the best examples of government by public anarchy that I've ever seen. --LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 05:56, Stephen Kuhn wrote: Sir Robin Longsig If my ancient brain fires the proper neural synaptic pathways correctly and remembers - the four line sig originated in newsgroups and migrated into mailing lists quite some time ago...but that was when anal-retentiveness actually had significant meaning other than what it denotes now - which is merely anal-retentiveness... BTW, I knocked down my email sig just to keep the ultra-conservatives from burning a wooden cross on me lawn... My friend, it's not the conservatives that are after you. kuhn media australia - kma.0catch.com SNIP SIG Heh. ;) --LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list - trying to get back OnTopic
On Tuesday 07 January 2003 04:56 am, Andy Micklethwaite wrote: I've been on this list for 2 days. I'm a newbie to MD, trying to convert from Windoze - Among many other things I've not got the SM56 modem going yet - guess why! BG. However I use a dial up connection, and my access time has gone up an order of magnitude with downloading 500+ emails from this list in 2 days. I haven't looked at the percentage of OTs to 'real' stuff, but it's not at all helpful to newbies. There appear to be helpful hints in there but finding them is not easy. I wonder how many other newbies are being put off by the sheer volume of OT. I am certainly wondering whether continuing here is worthwhile - the noise to signal ratio is too high at present. I shall persist for a short time to see what the norm is - or even whoG Regards, Andy. Andy: Good point, and well put. As Anne Wilson has already pointed out, the OT traffic over the past few days has been unusually heavy. It's the price of an active, self-moderating list, but the upside is that most responses are timely and usually helpful. RTFMs, spams and flames are few and far between here; not all lists can make that claim. IMHO, getting some occasional OT stuff is more than a fair trade for that kind of behavior. Also, there is always going to be more traffic on this list in comparison to other distributions' lists because Mandrake delineates its lists by general interest -- newbie, expert, cooker -- whereas the others segregate their lists by topic -- installation, configuration, networking, etc. My preference is to monitor fewer lists and do my own sorting. As for your SM56 winmodem: While I can't give you any direct help because I've never dealt with the beasts, I can give you three winmodem links that others have found useful: linmodems.org www.idir.net/~gromitkc/winmodem.html www.fcc/gov/oet/fccid/ (A quick way to identify exactly which modem -- or any other piece of hardware -- from the FCC number. You'll need to know the manufacturer and specific model number to determine if drivers are available; SM56 identifies the chipset, but these chips are used by several manufacturers, and not all of them will have Linux drivers. If your manufacturer does not offer a suitable driver, you may be able to use a driver from another manufacturer. From a search of the table at the ~gromitkc site for SM56, most are marked as WM (not good), and a few are marked LM (there's hope).) You can also check the newbie list archives for previous postings re your modem (and there have been some): http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/archives/newbie/ marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mandrake-newbier=1w=2 (easier to use, IMHO) HTH. If you need some more help, holler. And stick around. You'll find that it's worth digging through the noise to get the signals. Norm was the fat guy on Cheers. A hero of mine. He's never posted here. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] OT's on this list
It was never my intention to set off such a long OT, but it is harmless. For those who find it a problem it is a simple matter to set a filter that ignores such posts - correct me if I'm wrong? I do not want to be a nuisance to others, but nor should they be a nuisance to me. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Mon, 2003-01-06 at 12:22, Anne Wilson wrote: It was never my intention to set off such a long OT, but it is harmless. For those who find it a problem it is a simple matter to set a filter that ignores such posts - correct me if I'm wrong? I do not want to be a nuisance to others, but nor should they be a nuisance to me. An insoluble problem, that occurs on every list at some time, I think. A bit of off-topic banter is generally good for a list in my opinion,but, in fairness, whilst it may be fine for those of us who have cable/dsl/unlimited dial-up, it is a bit of a pain for those who are paying by the minute for online time and mailbox space. David -- Vah! Denuone Latine loquebar? Me ineptum. Interdum modo elabitur Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Monday 06 Jan 2003 12:46 pm, David Robertson wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-06 at 12:22, Anne Wilson wrote: It was never my intention to set off such a long OT, but it is harmless. For those who find it a problem it is a simple matter to set a filter that ignores such posts - correct me if I'm wrong? I do not want to be a nuisance to others, but nor should they be a nuisance to me. An insoluble problem, that occurs on every list at some time, I think. A bit of off-topic banter is generally good for a list in my opinion,but, in fairness, whilst it may be fine for those of us who have cable/dsl/unlimited dial-up, it is a bit of a pain for those who are paying by the minute for online time and mailbox space. I totally agree - but the way to improve that problem is to encourage cropping of quotes. Sometimes we get two or even three screens of quotes to 2 lines of new material. That seriously does harm bandwidth and mailbox space. My main gripe is that 22 people have thought this harmless banter, keeping the messages very short. One person seeks to destroy that, adding nothing positive to his statement. Freedom for all, says I Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Mon, 2003-01-06 at 12:50, Anne Wilson wrote: I totally agree - but the way to improve that problem is to encourage cropping of quotes. Sometimes we get two or even three screens of quotes to 2 lines of new material. That seriously does harm bandwidth and mailbox space. .and my scroll finger! David -- Vah! Denuone Latine loquebar? Me ineptum. Interdum modo elabitur Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
Anne Wilson wrote: It was never my intention to set off such a long OT, but it is harmless. For those who find it a problem it is a simple matter to set a filter that ignores such posts - correct me if I'm wrong? If people remember to put OT in the header, yes. However, I'm not sure how you do it client-side to prevent the message from being downloaded in the first place, which is the real problem for people with low (and maybe expensive) bandwidth. I do not want to be a nuisance to others, but nor should they be a nuisance to me. Quite. I don't mind people requesting that a discussion should be continued elsewhere, but they should be polite about it, especially when some of the participants have paid their dues on this list enough to be allowed to indulge in a little silliness on occasion. If I recall rightly, the whole thing started with a question about KDE or GNOME - that is one subject we should definitely ban ;-) Sir Robin -- Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun doing it. - Linus Torvalds Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On Monday 06 Jan 2003 1:55 pm, Robin Turner wrote: If I recall rightly, the whole thing started with a question about KDE or GNOME - that is one subject we should definitely ban ;-) Or perhaps *request* that replies are restricted to pointing out that personal preference reigns, since most apps work perfectly well whichever one you choose. I think those are the two salient points. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT's on this list
On January 6, 2003 06:55 am, Robin Turner wrote: snip If people remember to put OT in the header, yes. However, I'm not sure how you do it client-side to prevent the message from being downloaded in the first place, which is the real problem for people with low (and maybe expensive) bandwidth. If the OT gets too frequent; as it sometimes does on one of the lists I'm subscribed to, I just activate an OT pop filter in K-Mail and it never leaves the mail server. Usually (once a week or thereabouts) I'll use the ISP's web-mail interface and delete the 'download later' messages after browsing through them for any interesting tidbits. I do not want to be a nuisance to others, but nor should they be a nuisance to me. I'd never characterize Anne as any sort of nuisance. The occasional OT on this list is nearly always fun; at least until some list Nazi gets a wild hair across his arse. Quite. I don't mind people requesting that a discussion should be continued elsewhere, but they should be polite about it, especially when some of the participants have paid their dues on this list enough to be allowed to indulge in a little silliness on occasion. Total agreement. If I recall rightly, the whole thing started with a question about KDE or GNOME - that is one subject we should definitely ban ;-) That was one. Another was a (sort of) reference to a tag at the end of a post mentioning that I was going to see Star Trek Nemesis on opening night. I dropped the subject in deference to others that hadn't seen it yet, but wanted to, so I wouldn't spoil it for them. I didn't think much of the movie BTW. I'm glad it wasn't my money that paid admission for it. g Sir Robin Regards; -- Charlie Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org Smile! You're on Candid Camera. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
