Re: Propose to Integrate Old OO Wiki and New AOO Wiki
2012/6/10 TJ Frazier tjfraz...@cfl.rr.com On 6/10/2012 12:51, Kay Schenk wrote: Hi, Kay, IIUC, the automatic nav in cwiki is a genealogical thing: every page has a parent, and that's what the nav display shows. That is easier than categories — if you only want one category for that page. Mwiki is less convenient, but gives you more control. You /can/ create child pages, using the slash (/) notation; see my user page [1] for several examples. On the child page, you get breadcrumbs at the top. While I admit I'm biased, I doubt that the cwiki nav scales well; it's good for a small number of pages, but as the information gets richer, it gets harder to find. [1] http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/User:**TJFrazierhttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:TJFrazier /tj/ Hi. My 2 cents: If you want to take advantage of Mediawiki's semantic capabilities, there's no need to create child pages. There are a lot of cool stuff that can be used to perform the tasks required in this thread. Cheers -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Propose to Integrate Old OO Wiki and New AOO Wiki
2012/6/6 Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.de Hi all, Herbert Duerr schrieb: On 06.06.2012 05:57, imacat wrote: It's relatively easy to start a new Wiki or discard an existing one. But to form and keep a live Wiki community is a lot harder than just moving. Agreed. Speaking of the OOo/AOO Wiki community the Wiki has been a target of attacks by Spambots or Annoybots for a long time. Please see e.g. http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/w/index.php?** title=Special:RecentChanges**limit=500http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChangeslimit=500 which shows that most of the changelog entries are caused by these Annoybots subscribing about 50 dummy users every day. I'm not sure if this is critical because it could blow up the service but browsing the recent changes list feels like analyzing the contents of a garbage bin instead of a hey these are interesting updates moment. Whatever is decided to become the new Wiki I hope it is more resilient against these attacks as we are a high profile target getting plenty of page hits on the Wiki and there are also some people that really want our project to die and put some effort into it. When our three Wikis get overhauled this should be a consideration. Can we restrict the account creation as described in http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/**Manual:Preventing_access#** Restrict_account_creationhttp://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access#Restrict_account_creation You need no account to read the Wiki, so its purpose giving support is not restricted. Kind regards Regina Hummm... That could prevent new contributors to join the project, but have no interest in joining something more, let's say, official. For example: people who write tutorials, tips and tricks, people who make individual efforts locally and so on. There are other ways to block bots and fake users. Best regards. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Tolerance and acceptance
+1000 2012/6/6 Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.com I move that there is no need to continue to fuel the fires of AOO vs LO. The PPMC is now effective at ignoring anti-AOO materials on our own lists. I suggest the PPMC should further silence inflammatory posts that are anti-LO on our lists. For example, a recent post on ooo-users said: The LO guys should have thought about that before forking OpenOffice following Novell's siren's call. (remember the first major fork of OpenOffice was Novell's Go-OO which incorporated the MS OOXML support). In fact, it was their actions that killed the commercial prospects of StarOffice, which Oracle had renamed Oracle Open Office (without the .org). I suggest that the ooo-users list is not the place for these kinds of opinions, regardless of their validity. This is especially true when they are made in response to a positive comment, which was The main goal has always been to create the best Office suite possible - so let's unite around that. Our communities need to be welcoming. There is no chance of creating unity if disunity is the response. I'm not suggesting this be tackled onlist, that can be counter-productive too. I'm merely highlighting it and encouraging individuals on the PPMC who agree with me to consider sending a polite but firm request to stay focused on helping users on the ooo-users list. Ross -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Propose to Integrate Old OO Wiki and New AOO Wiki
2012/6/5 Graham Lauder y...@apache.org it would be indeed nice to have only one wiki. We have unresolved issues with the old wiki content (unclear licenses) but MediaWiki as underlying wiki software offers more features as far as I can see and the editing is smoother for me. Very useful extensions are used in several places all over the wiki. If possible I would prefer to move forward with MediaWiki Juergen +1 for going with Mediawiki simply because of it's feature set. Cheers G +1 for Mediawiki. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: The reason I removed the program called Open Office 3.4
2012/6/3 Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: Ideally we'd have a dialog the user could reach both in the install and in the product where they could see what app currently owns each file extension and then switch the owner. So they could assign an extension to AOO, but also change their mind and set it back to MS Office if they wanted. +1 +1 That' s the approach I' d like to see. FC -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: The reason I removed the program called Open Office 3.4
2012/6/2 Gavin McDonald ga...@16degrees.com.au -Original Message- From: Graham Wright [mailto:gwright2...@hotmail.es] Sent: Saturday, 2 June 2012 2:01 PM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: The reason I removed the program called Open Office 3.4 I often wonder why somebody that has Microsoft Office would have the need to install Open Office anyway! Isn't Open Office mainly for those people who cannot afford, or who are unwilling to pay for Microsoft Office? Perhaps to evaluate it , compare etc, so that next time renewal/upgrade of MS Office comes long, they might decide the free OOo is good enough instead. One can't decide which is best without trying. Also, on this 'dev' list, you will find many (such as me) with both for testing purposes. (This apparent error obviously slipped the net) Gav... Hi. That's not the case for this issue, but many governments (Brasil is the best example I can giveyou) are choosing ODF as the standard format for documents. Ms Windows 2007 and below aren 't able to open ODF files. That's one reason why many people have another office suite installed in their computers. Regards -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] Working with old UX wiki pages
2012/6/1 Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.de
Hi all,
Hi
there exists a lot of UX relevant pages in the MediaWiki. There had been a
lot of ideas and wishes on the ooo-us...@incubator.apache.org recently. I
have pointed them to Bugzilla and to these UX pages. But that seems to be
wrong.
I think, that a decision is needed, how to handle this stuff in future. I
see this problems:
(1)
Currently some (all?) pages are assigned to category 'outdated', but that
is not very obvious.
Most of this pages have the template {{user experience}} integrated. My
suggestion is, to put a note into this template.
I've created that category in order to identify pages that need revision,
not only UX related pages. As soon as they are revised that category must
be removed from the pages. There are many new pages in the wiki.
Categorizing old unrevised pages in Category:Outdated makes it easier to
search for such pages and to have a good idea on how many they are and what
are their contents.
(2)
At OOo times there was only the MediaWiki. But now we have the MediaWiki
and the CWiki. My suggestion is, to use the MediaWiki only for those
things, which are not connected with core development and not connected
with community building. With this premise, UX work should be on the CWiki.
That Wiki is writable for all too, so it would be no constrain in
participation.
I don't have an closed opinion about this issue. I am more familiar with
Mediawiki, but I can learn how to use Cwiki too. No problem from my side.
(3)
UX had a project Better defaults. I thing it is worth to continue.
Better defaults are often small changes which might be suitable for
development beginners to explore the source and can be used as easy hack,
if they find an experienced developer to guide.
Sure!
Kind regards
Regina
Regards.
--
Paulo de Souza Lima
http://almalivre.wordpress.com
Curitiba - PR
Linux User #432358
Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Debian repository for AOO
2012/5/31 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/30/12 9:56 PM, Marcelo Santana wrote: Hi folks, Now the repository is running[1], ready to provide a easier way to install Apache OpenOffice 3.4 on a Debian desktop with all available languages. [1]http://sourceforge.net/projects/apacheoo-deb/files/debian/ For while we are providing only i386 and amd64 binaries but soon it will be available also the source code (with deb-src entry for sources.list file), according to the Debian policy and DFSG. Thank you Chris and Roberto for the Sourceforge support. great news Juergen I've made a tuto on how to use this repo in Debian/Ubuntu/Mint at https://almalivre.wordpress.com/2012/05/30/apache-openoffice-instalacao-via-repositorio-nao-oficial-para-debianubuntumint/(in portuguese). Do yout hink it's usefull to translate it to English and make it available somewhere? Thanks. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
2012/5/24 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Samstag, 19. Mai 2012 um 00:18 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a community/team page Well, As I told before, I would not call it a community. I would call it a team or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX Guys sounds better =) How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki maintenance, for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones. I couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton questioned me about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out that TJ and Adailton are the wiki guys. But this information was not anywhere in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing what? This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the relation to a people page? Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the last 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it getting information from other systems, like CMS. Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a good ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It would be great to have a simplified workflow to submit
Re: [UX] Questions for users
2012/5/23 Graham Lauder g.a.lau...@gmail.com On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Albino Biasutti Neto biasut...@gmail.comwrote: Hi. 2012/5/20 Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org I think you mean How old are you? =) Sorry, thanks. Maybe we could contribute to improve those questions. My 2 cents: Are you using it at your work (ask where does he/she work) or at home, or both? Do you think you have enough support? Where do you use to get support? (manuals, friends, forum, mailing lists, etc) Good! Open to suggestions. :-) Albino Where will these questions be asked? During the download process? During the registration process? A poll on the web site? -Wolf PS Website polls 1 to 2 question open-ended questions (questions without a set choice of answers) have been known to produce very useful data-sets among users of public library services, and I would suggest that model as an interesting way to find out our own blind spots, regarding usage trends. Closed-end questions such as do you like seagulls can only get 3 responses, yes, no and no response at all. Scaled response and open response questions are always better in terms of data that is dealing with aesthetics and feelings. The art with these answers is in the interpretation. A Yes/no response to a question is not an answer it's a vote and a sign of lazy Poll design. We don't need to do that, we don't have department heads breathing down our necks and waving deadlines under our noses so as there is no pressure, our Survey design should be tops. Indeed. Yet, Scaled questions should have a odd number of choices and should be used for quantification. Five is a fair number, in my view. Open questions should be used for qualification. They are harder to plot. What I would like to be able to do is to design a survey, collate the data, make a decision based on that data, publish it and then be able to point directly at a feature or design element that we can say was due to feedback from the survey. This gives our surveys gravitas with users and we are more likely to get quality responses to later surveys. This could be usefull to show users that their wishes are being heard, discussed and can be implemented in the software someway. Cheers GL Cheers. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [HEADS UP] Re: [UPDATE SERVICE] proposal for a AOO 3.4 update service
2012/5/22 Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com Hi, On 22.05.2012 10:35, Rory O'Farrell wrote: On Tue, 22 May 2012 10:28:15 +0200 Andrea Pescettipesce...@apache.org wrote: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Thus, you got an error in the AOO 3.4 update functionality, because you have an own redirect from openoffice.org to another host. Right? Does the update functionality works, if you do not have your own redirect? I am asking in order to be sure that I got the right message. It worked correctly. I had setup that redirect on my machine just to moderate lists on the legacy infrastructure after the DNS change (Oracle to Apache) had been completed; it is now useless of course. When I removed my redirect, everything worked as expected and I received a message saying that no updates were available. Worked very nicely for me using AOO 3.4. Will try later with an OOo 3.3 machine when it is awake. Congratulations! Thanks for the test. The update service for installed OOo 3.3 instance has not be established, yet. Best regards, Oliver. Hi. I tried here in my office, through an authenticated proxy. It works, but it asks for the proxy user and password many times, even if I check the Enable password option. Cheers. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [HEADS UP] Re: [UPDATE SERVICE] proposal for a AOO 3.4 update service
2012/5/22 Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org 2012/5/22 Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com Hi, On 22.05.2012 10:35, Rory O'Farrell wrote: On Tue, 22 May 2012 10:28:15 +0200 Andrea Pescettipesce...@apache.org wrote: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Thus, you got an error in the AOO 3.4 update functionality, because you have an own redirect from openoffice.org to another host. Right? Does the update functionality works, if you do not have your own redirect? I am asking in order to be sure that I got the right message. It worked correctly. I had setup that redirect on my machine just to moderate lists on the legacy infrastructure after the DNS change (Oracle to Apache) had been completed; it is now useless of course. When I removed my redirect, everything worked as expected and I received a message saying that no updates were available. Worked very nicely for me using AOO 3.4. Will try later with an OOo 3.3 machine when it is awake. Congratulations! Thanks for the test. The update service for installed OOo 3.3 instance has not be established, yet. Best regards, Oliver. Hi. I tried here in my office, through an authenticated proxy. It works, but it asks for the proxy user and password many times, even if I check the Enable password option. Cheers. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Sorry. The option is actually Remember password. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [HEADS UP] Re: [UPDATE SERVICE] proposal for a AOO 3.4 update service
2012/5/22 Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com Hi, On 22.05.2012 14:56, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: On 22.05.2012 14:47, Paulo de Souza Lima wrote: 2012/5/22 Oliver-Rainer Wittmannorwittmann@**googlemail.comorwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Thus, you got an error in the AOO 3.4 update functionality, because you have an own redirect from openoffice.org to another host. Right? Does the update functionality works, if you do not have your own redirect? I am asking in order to be sure that I got the right message. It worked correctly. I had setup that redirect on my machine just to moderate lists on the legacy infrastructure after the DNS change (Oracle to Apache) had been completed; it is now useless of course. When I removed my redirect, everything worked as expected and I received a message saying that no updates were available. Worked very nicely for me using AOO 3.4. Will try later with an OOo 3.3 machine when it is awake. Congratulations! Thanks for the test. The update service for installed OOo 3.3 instance has not be established, yet. Best regards, Oliver. Hi. I tried here in my office, through an authenticated proxy. It works, but it asks for the proxy user and password many times, even if I check the Enable password option. Hm.. As far as I know only one HTTP GET request is performed internally by AOO 3.4. May be due to the redirects more requests are made - I'll have to check it. I have checked it. Due to the redirect three HTTP GET request are performed. The first goes to http://update38.services.**openoffice.org/** ProductUpdateService/check.**Updatehttp://update38.services.openoffice.org/ProductUpdateService/check.Update, the second to http://openoffice.org/**projects/update38/** ProductUpdateService/check.**Updatehttp://openoffice.org/projects/update38/ProductUpdateService/check.Updateand the final one to http://www.openoffice.org/**projects/update38/** ProductUpdateService/check.**Updatehttp://www.openoffice.org/projects/update38/ProductUpdateService/check.Update The same URLs that Andrea already figured out. I think the Remember password option is part of your proxy software. Thus, I do not think that its functionality is related to AOO 3.4. May be each HTTP GET request needs to be authenticated in your proxy software. Best regards, Oliver. Suggestion: maybe including fields for proxy user and password in Tools Option Internet Proxy. An option for socks proxy shoud be usefull also. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [HEADS UP] Re: [UPDATE SERVICE] proposal for a AOO 3.4 update service
2012/5/22 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com Am Dienstag, 22. Mai 2012 um 15:53 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/22 Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com Hi, On 22.05.2012 14:56, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: On 22.05.2012 14:47, Paulo de Souza Lima wrote: 2012/5/22 Oliver-Rainer Wittmannorwittmann@**googlemail.com orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Thus, you got an error in the AOO 3.4 update functionality, because you have an own redirect from openoffice.org to another host. Right? Does the update functionality works, if you do not have your own redirect? I am asking in order to be sure that I got the right message. It worked correctly. I had setup that redirect on my machine just to moderate lists on the legacy infrastructure after the DNS change (Oracle to Apache) had been completed; it is now useless of course. When I removed my redirect, everything worked as expected and I received a message saying that no updates were available. Worked very nicely for me using AOO 3.4. Will try later with an OOo 3.3 machine when it is awake. Congratulations! Thanks for the test. The update service for installed OOo 3.3 instance has not be established, yet. Best regards, Oliver. Hi. I tried here in my office, through an authenticated proxy. It works, but it asks for the proxy user and password many times, even if I check the Enable password option. Hm.. As far as I know only one HTTP GET request is performed internally by AOO 3.4. May be due to the redirects more requests are made - I'll have to check it. I have checked it. Due to the redirect three HTTP GET request are performed. The first goes to http://update38.services.**openoffice.org/** ProductUpdateService/check.**Update http://update38.services.openoffice.org/ProductUpdateService/check.Update , the second to http://openoffice.org/**projects/update38/** ProductUpdateService/check.**Update http://openoffice.org/projects/update38/ProductUpdateService/check.Updateand the final one to http://www.openoffice.org/**projects/update38/** ProductUpdateService/check.**Update http://www.openoffice.org/projects/update38/ProductUpdateService/check.Update The same URLs that Andrea already figured out. I think the Remember password option is part of your proxy software. Thus, I do not think that its functionality is related to AOO 3.4. May be each HTTP GET request needs to be authenticated in your proxy software. Best regards, Oliver. Suggestion: maybe including fields for proxy user and password in Tools Option Internet Proxy. An option for socks proxy shoud be usefull also. I think it is already possible to configure a proxy. And in case no proxy is configured in the office the system proxy is used as far as I know. Maybe we have a minor problem here with the new WebDAV/http implementation. But in general a proxy can be configured. Yes, thanks. I've tested using manual proxy options and it worked without continuous password requests. Juergen Regards -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/20 Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org Paulo, Rob also clarified what I mean by people speaking for themselves when he said this earlier: For example, I have given such presentations before. I just say that I am, Rob Weir, a Committer on the Apache OpenOffice project. I think several of us have done this as well. If someone is not a Committer yet, they could identify themselves a Contributor or Developer or Translator or Volunteer or something like that. Taking about the project is fine. Calling for new volunteers is good as well. It is important that no one appear to be speaking as an official representative of the ASF or of the Apache OpenOffice project. Yes, I agree. snip As you see, many such statements are future looking. None of us can say whether they will be true or not. And none of us should obligate the project to deliver a particular feature. But you can say, for example, something like: From what I have read on the mailing list, it looks like we have volunteers interested in contributing Norwegian and Hebrew translations for the next release, or Current discussions point to a 3.4.1 maintenance release in a couple of months or IMHO, I prefer AOO over Project Foo because X, Y and Z. Speaking for yourself means that when you are stating an opinion, that you own the opinion and say that it is yours. I understand it too. -Rob [ ... ] Regards. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] Questions for users
2012/5/21 Albino Biasutti Neto biasut...@gmail.com Hi. 2012/5/20 Raul Pacheco da Silva raulpachecodasi...@gmail.com Yes, like others softwares and questions in free internet U2es,012/5/20 Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org This could be done in the wiki. Yes. Let's go ?! Who wants to also create questions feel free. Albino You? -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: MediaWiki update
*There they are:* * * **Semantic MediaWiki http://semantic-mediawiki.org/* ** **Semantic Forms http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Forms * ** **Semantic Forms Inputshttp://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Forms_Inputs * ** **SemanticFormsSelecthttps://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SemanticFormsSelect * * *Semantic Internal Objectshttp://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Internal_Objects * * *External Data https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:External_Data* * *Approved Revs http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Approved_Revs* 2012/5/21 Claudio Filho filh...@gmail.com Hi Paulo, I said with Imacat yesterday, and she will do this work. I commented about the plugins too, but I will pass this step for you. Can you to list the plugin pages/references that you need? Best, Claudio -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/21 Paolo Pozzan pa...@z2z.it Il 20/05/2012 21:25, Dennis E. Hamilton ha scritto: I want to encourage all that you say here. I am not so confident that the openoffice.org approach (that is, what Sun allowed and supported) is applicable here because the ASF as a foundation must operate differently than a commercial enterprise. That can be a minor thing, once the guidelines are clear. Do you have suggestions on how affiliation with ASF and the Apache OpenOffice project can be reconciled? Need there be any? If there is coupling between an NL community and AOO, what arrangement do you request? Of course there is no need to do exactly what Sun did, just take what we miss. There are already good examples of working local communities, so that is a good starting point. While some communities may have their organizations, I don't think there is need to affiliation at this point. Everything can be managed inside Apache OpenOffice project. Paolo +1 -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] Questions for users
2012/5/20 Albino Biasutti Neto biasut...@gmail.com Hi. Hi My paticipation on UX. :-) We can prepare question for end users. Which country you are?; How old is it?; What do you use most: calc, write, impress, math ... ?; Doing reserch and they use the AOO; What you wish for improvements, and others. I think you mean How old are you? =) Maybe we could contribute to improve those questions. My 2 cents: Are you using it at your work (ask where does he/she work) or at home, or both? Do you think you have enough support? Where do you use to get support? (manuals, friends, forum, mailing lists, etc) Rgds These questions can't take 2-4 minutes. We'll have statistics for future versions and improvements. My U$ 0,002 cs Albino -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/20 Paolo Pozzan pa...@z2z.it Reading to all other messages in this thread, I think many missed the point. The problem is not about what language to use, but how to manage the to-be-volunteers which don't or wouldn't have the same skills as ours. Volunteers are a big marketing weapon; is like happy workers that freely advertise the company they work for. OTOH rejected volunteers (even for difficulty of access - e.g. language) will feel the final product less theirs, so they will be less willing to marketing that. Like many opposers of AOO Project (incubating) (get it? ;-) say, the Apache Software Foundation has a long history of successful software for skilled technical users. I bet that the average OpenOffice user don't even know what a programming language exactly is, so I think this is a new exciting challenge for the Apache folks. What I understood in my experience with italian volunteers is that people love to contribute in a hassle-free maneer, this means that someone else have to show them the way, letting them just do. I know this may sound disappointing, but it is not a limit of freedom if someone choose by his/her own to follow some rules. I think that it would be useful to write some basic guidelines for the native language teams to know what to do and what not. Letting them know it would eventually lead to the birth of local communities, where basic contributors will eventually will go there. Maybe many of us have still in mind the old OpenOffice.org structure, which worked fine for the language teams and to which we can consider copying from. Paolo That's exactly what is happening to brazilian community. The most of us have not technical skills. But we are AOO users and we have influence to convince many people and organizations to give a chance on AOO. And we are being striked a lot because of that, but we are standing still. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/20 Wolf Halton wolf.hal...@gmail.com On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org wrote: 2012/5/20 Paolo Pozzan pa...@z2z.it Reading to all other messages in this thread, I think many missed the point. The problem is not about what language to use, but how to manage the to-be-volunteers which don't or wouldn't have the same skills as ours. Volunteers are a big marketing weapon; is like happy workers that freely advertise the company they work for. OTOH rejected volunteers (even for difficulty of access - e.g. language) will feel the final product less theirs, so they will be less willing to marketing that. Like many opposers of AOO Project (incubating) (get it? ;-) say, the Apache Software Foundation has a long history of successful software for skilled technical users. I bet that the average OpenOffice user don't even know what a programming language exactly is, so I think this is a new exciting challenge for the Apache folks. What I understood in my experience with italian volunteers is that people love to contribute in a hassle-free maneer, this means that someone else have to show them the way, letting them just do. I know this may sound disappointing, but it is not a limit of freedom if someone choose by his/her own to follow some rules. I think that it would be useful to write some basic guidelines for the native language teams to know what to do and what not. Letting them know it would eventually lead to the birth of local communities, where basic contributors will eventually will go there. Maybe many of us have still in mind the old OpenOffice.org structure, which worked fine for the language teams and to which we can consider copying from. Paolo That's exactly what is happening to brazilian community. The most of us have not technical skills. But we are AOO users and we have influence to convince many people and organizations to give a chance on AOO. And we are being striked a lot because of that, but we are standing still. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Paulo, I am not sure I understand either. What is missing that would make it easier for you to do what you want to accomplish? Hi Wolf. Nothing at all, actually. It would be good if we had a pt-br mailing list, but we are using a mailing list from Escritorio Livre Community. The most important for people up here,maybe, would have support and acceptance from AOO without many bureaucractic issues. We are proud to help and we help for fun, without political or economic interests. I think this could lead to a polemic discussion and I don't wish to be polemic. Sorry. Wolf Regards. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/20 Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org The extend of bureacratic issues will depend on the extent of support and acceptance you require. Without specific requests, there is no way of knowing what conditions the ASF and the Apache OpenOffice project might set. What do you require that constitutes acceptance? What do you require that is essential as support? With regard to mailing lists, there is a fairly simply process to create one. @incubator.apache.org already has ooo-general-es, ooo-general-ja, ooo-progetto-it, ooo-users-de, ooo-users-fr, and ooo-utenti-it. Contributors who arranged to set up and support those lists can answer your questions here on ooo-dev. You can also communicate with -owner of those lists (e.g., ooo-utenti-it-owner @incubator.apache.org). See this: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/native-lang.html. There is no PT or PT-BR (can they not be combined?) on the Apache OpenOffice Community Forums. There are ways to accomplish that as well. I don't know if that would be helpful to your community or not: http://user.services.openoffice.org/. Operators of the community forums are also found here on ooo-dev. Hi8 Dennis Just to be clear: Do you need to fill a form when you decide to help a friend or someone unknown? Most of people don't think they need. So, some of us will submit their requests for contributors. Some will not. But they will continue spread the cause and supporting enthusiastically AOO. They will need support and acceptance. This is one of the the subjective things Apache Foundation will need to deal when working with a very popular software like AOO: The boundaries exceed the technical environment. There's a whole and huge new world out there. - Dennis Regards -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/20 Paolo Pozzan pa...@z2z.it Il 20/05/2012 20:57, Paulo de Souza Lima ha scritto: snip Paulo, I am not sure I understand either. What is missing that would make it easier for you to do what you want to accomplish? Maybe is about what must be missed. Asking a volunteer to subscribe to a mailing list with hundreds of messages in a month can be very frustrating and also annoying. Hi Wolf. Nothing at all, actually. It would be good if we had a pt-br mailing list, but we are using a mailing list from Escritorio Livre Community. The most important for people up here,maybe, would have support and acceptance from AOO without many bureaucractic issues. We are proud to help and we help for fun, without political or economic interests. I think this could lead to a polemic discussion and I don't wish to be polemic. Sorry. Paulo, as long as you are looking for a way to get better processes you cannot lead to polemic discussions. Let's find a solution togheter. Paolo Keep in mind the following: OpenOffice.org community has passed through a traumatic phase. For BrOffice this phase was much more traumatic, because we had many fightings for power. And we are tired of fighting. Contributing to Free Software should be for fun for most of us.Suddenly we were involved in a war in against some people. I really don't want to relive that situation and we decided to get away from LibreOffice and TDF because those people we were fighting against became key persons in TDF. We got out and founded Escritorio Livre Community. We were seeking some projects to help, like Caligra, and others, but when OpenOffice came out from the ashes, we thought we could help a lot on it. So, some of us decided to submit their agreements to Apache Foundation. But the most important is: we want to help AOO (and we can do a lot of noise in Brazil) for fun. We don't want to be involved again in economic or political issues like we were in TDF/LibreOffice. We are the only brazilian community who openly declared support to AOO, who are spreading news, presenting lectures and talking about AOO. And who are helping people to use AOO. You can see that when we post threads about people like Rogério, who is willing to instal AOO 3,4 in thousands of computer in a digital inclusion government project Today, we are under attack from those people that think TDF and AOO must fight till death and have commercial interests in brazilian market. Of couse you don't know that, because you don't use to read brazilian FLOSS news, despite the fact that Brazil is a huge market for open source office suites. The fact is: there's a lot of people helping AOO and you don't really know them. And they don't want to fill a form to officially help AOO or Apache Foundation. But it would be good to see they are recognized as helpers, or contributors, or whatever, some way. I know it's polemic, I already had a wearing discussion about this issue in LibO marketing mailing lists, and I don't want to do that again here. Claudio, Albino and Drew Jensen could give you tips of what happened, if they want. Anyway, that discussion is public in TDF marketing list (but the discussions we had in private lists) Regards. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/20 Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org When will you be specific? When you give me time to write a proper reply Are you concerned about the iCLA? No I am not. That doesn't stop most people from helping on ooo-users or other lists. It is not a condition for contributing to the Forums. It is not a condition for submitting bug reports. It is a condition for submitting work that is extensive enough to constitute intellectual property. For what specific purpose do you find an iCLA is required (or election as a committer, beyond that) that is objectionable to you? No it isn't. I don't think the iCLA matters to most people in the community that you are interested in and it will not arise as a requirement. What you think cannot be the real thing, Think about it. Wanting root access to a server in the Apache Infrastructure is a different story. Who said I want it? You're mistaken. Please do not over-generalize. I am not. You seems to be a lot precipitated. Until you make specific, actionable requests, there is going to be no constructive movement here. Don't worry. I am not interested in more discussions like that. - Dennis Have a nice day. (or night, or wharever) -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/20 Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org Please Paolo, What does this refer to: Do you need to fill a form when you decide to help a friend or someone unknown? Most of people don't think they need. So, some of us will submit their requests for contributors. Some will not. I have no idea how this relates to the Apache OpenOffice project and those communities that adopt, share and advocate use of the software. Ok. Let me try to explain again. Maybe the language barrier could be making me diffiicult to do that. 1- When OpenOffice.org were living, we had a great and promising community in Brazil. 2 - In that time, we had not to fill any kind of form to contribute and to be accepted as a contributor. Everyone was watching what we were doing and that was enough. 3 - I don't know if you are aware about what has happened to brOffice.org NGO. It's a long and disgusting story I could tell you in another opportunity. But that divided our community in those who had commercial interests in brazilian market and those who contributed freely and had their work stolen, when TDF was formed. 4 - Suddenly, TDF was requesting that every person who wanted to be called a contributor should fill a agreement request in order to be recognized. So we became to be concerned about that huge amount of people who contributed and didn't want to fill a formal agreement to a foreign organization that don't speak their language and has a lot of channels, many of them obscured. 5 - In addition, people who we were fighting bacame key persons in TDF. One of them became a brazilian member of the BoD, with 70 votes, when brazilian accepted members in Brazil were less than 15 and most of them didn't vote for him. 6 - Facing all those issues, many of us got out. Some have gone to take care of their own lives. Some were seeking some other project to contribute for. We are the remains of those who were seeking a project to contribute for. 7 - Some of us are not intending to fill a form in order to became a contributor. They don't think it's necessary, and I don't think either. despite of that they continue to do a great job marketing AOO, without your knowledge. You don't know them, but we, brazilians, certainly do. 8 - This discussion was already made in TDF mailing lists, without success for us. 9 - I don't want to bring a polemic issue like that here, because I know you would ask more and more about it, and some answers cannot be exactly what you want to see. 10 - I am tired of discussing this issue. I had a wearing discussion with TDF BoD once and, if brazilian people don't want to speak for themselves, I'll be quiet also, because I am telling you what is/was happening, but I am not a spokesman for anyone. And Rob... There's no abstract vollunteers up here. There are vollunteers you don't know and who are doing a great job, despite the fact you don't know them. - Dennis Regards. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/20 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima snip So I've seen two requests so far: 1) Create of a br-pt mailing list. I think this was approved, yes? Yes. Thank you. 2) Request for admin access to MWiki. I don't think this has been resolved yet. I think I was misundestood. I am *vollunteer* to perform wiki admin issues if no one else is skilled enough to do that. I am not requesting an admin access, unless you think this is the way and wish to agree to my suggestions. You are already doing great things with the Twitter and other social media accounts. This is great. Thanks Was there anything else that the Brazilian volunteers need immediately?What other kinds of bureaucratic issues are you running into? We'll keep you informed when issues raise. Thanks. -Rob -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/20 Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org I was curious about sisudo also: Great! =) Also can mean a person who doesn't smile ever. =D Significado de sisudo no Dicionário inFormal online de Português. O que é sisudo: Sério, firme, enfático. Prudente, sensato. I think you might have been thinking of dour although that word is not used much. Beside serious, firm, and emphatic there is also prudent and sensible. But perhaps there is something about stern, harsh, obstinate, and unyielding too? I apologize for my contribution to that impression. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Paulo de Souza Lima [mailto:paulo.s.l...@varekai.org] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:40 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams [ ... ] 3 - Some of them, even knowing English language, have difficulties to reach this list because they feel, let's say, unconfortable in dealing with famous people like many of you. =) Apache seems to be a serious place (maybe too serious) for those people. They are affraid to be misundestood. [ ... ] Sorry but I can't remember the corresponding word in English for the portuguese word sisudo, so I placed the word serious. Maybe someone can help me because Google Translate couldn't. =) [ ... ] -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] Questions for users
This could be done in the wiki. 2012/5/20 Wolf Halton wolf.hal...@gmail.com Seems reasonable. Could amass the questions on the ceiling so everyone could see what questions made sense dot their research interest. http://evergreen-community-01.lyrasistechnology.org http://sourcefreedom.com Apache developer: wolfhal...@apache.org On May 20, 2012 3:01 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org wrote: Maybe we could think in a question database and decide where to ask later. So we could arrange questions in many different ways, depending on the research objetives. What do you think? 2012/5/20 Wolf Halton wolf.hal...@gmail.com question -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
Well I think this issue is quite clear for me, and I feel able to showm how things work for those who wants to help, here in Brazil. Thank you very much for your help. 2012/5/20 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org wrote: 2012/5/20 Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org Please Paolo, What does this refer to: Do you need to fill a form when you decide to help a friend or someone unknown? Most of people don't think they need. So, some of us will submit their requests for contributors. Some will not. I have no idea how this relates to the Apache OpenOffice project and those communities that adopt, share and advocate use of the software. Ok. Let me try to explain again. Maybe the language barrier could be making me diffiicult to do that. 1- When OpenOffice.org were living, we had a great and promising community in Brazil. 2 - In that time, we had not to fill any kind of form to contribute and to be accepted as a contributor. Everyone was watching what we were doing and that was enough. 3 - I don't know if you are aware about what has happened to brOffice.org NGO. It's a long and disgusting story I could tell you in another opportunity. But that divided our community in those who had commercial interests in brazilian market and those who contributed freely and had their work stolen, when TDF was formed. 4 - Suddenly, TDF was requesting that every person who wanted to be called a contributor should fill a agreement request in order to be recognized. So we became to be concerned about that huge amount of people who contributed and didn't want to fill a formal agreement to a foreign organization that don't speak their language and has a lot of channels, many of them obscured. 5 - In addition, people who we were fighting bacame key persons in TDF. One of them became a brazilian member of the BoD, with 70 votes, when brazilian accepted members in Brazil were less than 15 and most of them didn't vote for him. 6 - Facing all those issues, many of us got out. Some have gone to take care of their own lives. Some were seeking some other project to contribute for. We are the remains of those who were seeking a project to contribute for. 7 - Some of us are not intending to fill a form in order to became a contributor. They don't think it's necessary, and I don't think either. despite of that they continue to do a great job marketing AOO, without your knowledge. You don't know them, but we, brazilians, certainly do. 8 - This discussion was already made in TDF mailing lists, without success for us. 9 - I don't want to bring a polemic issue like that here, because I know you would ask more and more about it, and some answers cannot be exactly what you want to see. 10 - I am tired of discussing this issue. I had a wearing discussion with TDF BoD once and, if brazilian people don't want to speak for themselves, I'll be quiet also, because I am telling you what is/was happening, but I am not a spokesman for anyone. And Rob... There's no abstract vollunteers up here. There are vollunteers you don't know and who are doing a great job, despite the fact you don't know them. The issues are abstract until you say person X wants to do Y and cannot do it because of Z. Fill in X, Y and Z and then we have a problem we can solve. Something else to note: There are different levels of participation for volunteers in an Apache project. One can be a contributor/developers without signing the ICLA and without doing any other paper work. A contributor can participate in any of our mailing lists, sign up for a wiki account (on MWiki and Confluence) can create a Bugzilla account, can enter translations in Pootle, can even fix bugs and submit patches. So there is a lot that they can do without signing the ICLA. However, to get direct commit access to the source repository, used for the source code and the website, you need to be voted in as a Committer and sign the ICLA. There are a few other permissions that we only give to Committers, like login rights for Pootle, admin access to servers, etc. So there should not a lot of bureaucracy needed for volunteers to be active with the project. But if I am wrong (and I might be) then the best way to argue that point is with a specific example. -Rob - Dennis Regards. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/20 win wmbo...@gmail.com On 05/20/2012 04:11 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima wrote: The fact is: there's a lot of people helping AOO and you don't really know them. And they don't want to fill a form to officially help AOO or Apache Foundation. But it would be good to see they are recognized as helpers, or contributors, or whatever, some way. Perhaps those that can use both the NL and English can be liaisons between the the NL community and the community here. They could help NL users by either assisting with posting here if a subject needs to be brought up here. As well they could keep local users informed of what is happening in this community. Me, Claudio, Albino, Raul and Kayo are already doing that. We don't want to play the proxy role, so we don't have any private lists. All we discuss in Brazil is in a public list. So you can also have access to the content, using, perhaps, Google Translate. Another possibility is a variety of badges or such for helping out on the NL lists and/or being liaisons . The NL groups sound like users groups to me, at least historically, so maybe that is a model that should be considered. In September there will be 2 large FLOSS events in the same week in Brazil. FISL12 and FTSL. People will be there and we want to talk about AOO. Can we do that? Of course we are not ASF representatives, but may we talk about the project? Ask for people to join us? Is there some way we can identify ourselves to the project? On a side note, even English users that just want to help are intimidated by many of the same things the NL users are apparently. After months of reading this list, I am just learning how to post here, since I haven't used an email list in ages. I don't code, or do html/css. I'll do what I can though, and hope it helps. =) Welcome to the club! -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/20 Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org orcnote inline=true / -Original Message- From: Paulo de Souza Lima [mailto:paulo.s.l...@varekai.org] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 16:52 To: win Cc: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams [ ... ] In September there will be 2 large FLOSS events in the same week in Brazil. FISL12 and FTSL. People will be there and we want to talk about AOO. Can do that? Of course we are not ASF representatives, but may we talk about the project? orcnote Of course. Anyone can talk about the project, so long as it is unofficial and people are speaking for themselves. /orcnote Oooops. I don't know exactly what you mean speaking for themselves. Do you mean if it has worth to ASF/AOO good for all, if doesn't , people should take care of themselves? Ask for people to join us? orcnote Who do you mean by us? For the project, you can refer people to www.openoffice.org. Or an improvement of the section starting with this page: http://www.openoffice.org/pt-br/? For local activities, it is up to you. /orcnote Us is people who are contributing to Apache OpenOffice to be known by every single soul in this world, like me, Claudio, Fatima, Rui, Rubens, Albino, Raul, Clovis, Rob, Louis, and many many others. Is there some way we can identify ourselves to the project? orcnote That depends. What do you have in mind? Something more than Amigos do Apache OpenOffice? /orcmid What if we wanted to have a stand box? What if we distribute marketing material? [ ... ] -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/20 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org wrote: snip Me, Claudio, Albino, Raul and Kayo are already doing that. We don't want to play the proxy role, so we don't have any private lists. All we discuss in Brazil is in a public list. So you can also have access to the content, using, perhaps, Google Translate. Another possibility is a variety of badges or such for helping out on the NL lists and/or being liaisons . The NL groups sound like users groups to me, at least historically, so maybe that is a model that should be considered. In September there will be 2 large FLOSS events in the same week in Brazil. FISL12 and FTSL. People will be there and we want to talk about AOO. Can we do that? Of course we are not ASF representatives, but may we talk about the project? Ask for people to join us? Is there some way we can identify ourselves to the project? +1 For example, I have give such presentations before. I just say that I am, Rob Weir, a Committer on the Apache OpenOffice project. I think several of us have done this as well. If someone is not a Committer yet, they could identify themselves a Contributor or Developer or Translator or Volunteer or something like that. That's it ! =) Taking about the project is fine. Calling for new volunteers is good as well. These are important conferences. I've heard great things, in particular, about FISL. So it would be great to have a presence there. Claudio and Albino will be there. Unfortunately I can't. =( I know there was talk, on another thread, of a standard presentation template for the project. Maybe we could have some standard overview slides for the project, that could be translated and occasionally updated? That would allow any volunteer to give a presentation to a local conference, large or small. Claudio submitted some material and will make AOO presence there. -Rob -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly. Just my 2 ct Mine too. Juergen Cheers. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/18 drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.com Hi, Recently there has been some discussion on the projects private ML regarding issues about native language groups and how best to support work groups which will by definition be somewhat circumscribed from the whole by virtue of language without losing the cohesion of a single project focus. I invite others pick that up here: That's our case here in Brazil. How can we include people who are not familiar with English language? -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/18 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org snip Not really. I'm not presuming to say what others should or should not want to do. And I'm not going to speculate on what the project wants to do, whatever the heck that means. Let's not speculate or deal in hypothetical about how some hypothetical volunteer from Bolivia may or may not want to do for some hypothetical grant. We don't need an elaborate apparatus to deal with such questions that have not actually occurred here. Instead, let's ask of the here and now: Is there anything any volunteer on the project wants to do, that they believe that they cannot do? I'd encourage them to speak up, regardless of country or language. Let's make a list. Well, as long as you've opened a channel, I have something to say about it. 1 - I think, because I am a brand new vollunteer, and I'm not a commiter, I can't get admin access to the wiki, wiki servers and wiki database, in order to do what I want/plan to do in it. And I don't know who can do it for me, because TJ has told me it's possible that there's no vollunteer familiar enough with Mediawiki who can do that in infra team (upgrading and installing extensions). So my hands are tied. Just like many users, I am unable to find quick answers to my questions and unable to try solving this problem =) 2 - There's a lot of people here in Brazil willing to help AOO, but they can't because they can't read/write/speak English. I can count at least three right now, in our (provisory) mailing list at Escritório Livre. 3 - Some of them, even knowing English language, have difficulties to reach this list because they feel, let's say, unconfortable in dealing with famous people like many of you. =) Apache seems to be a serious place (maybe too serious) for those people. They are affraid to be misundestood. 4 - Many of us (90% I believe) came from an experience in LibO. There we faced a lot of issues about using brands, names and logos, because there is a lot of misunderstanding about who can or can't use them. Allowing people not directly involved with the project to use AOO brand/logo within certain clear rules could be very usefull and should help people to spread AOO. Sorry but I can't remember the corresponding word in English for the portuguese word sisudo, so I placed the word serious. Maybe someone can help me because Google Translate couldn't. =) IMHO, I believe there is more misunderstanding or even lack of knowledge about The Apache Way than there are cases of it not working for this project. Remember, we've grown very quickly, and a good portion of the current volunteers did not go through all the learning experiences the initial PMC members had last year. That's a fact! So let's make a list of whatever real current problems we think we have. We might be able to deal with those. But I doubt there will be much time left over to deal with hypothetical problems. Well, those I described above are not hypothetical. -Rob Thanks for this opening. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/18 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org wrote: 2012/5/18 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org snip But what do you want to do? I want to upgrade Mediawiki to MW 1.19.x or, if it's not possible, at least to 1.17.4, and install some useful extensions. This shall not impact any actual function, but will provide us tools to make AOO wiki a lot more usable. Even if you had admin access you should not make major changes without first proposing them on the list and seeing if anyone objected. Yes, I know that. I'd recommend that you start with a proposal for what you want to do. Put it in a new [PROPOSAL] thread on ooo-dev. Once we've discussed the proposal, then we can worry about the access controls. Like this one? http://search.gmane.org/?query=%5BPROPOSAL%5D+Wiki+upgradegroup=gmane.comp.apache.incubator.ooo.devel 2 - There's a lot of people here in Brazil willing to help AOO, but they can't because they can't read/write/speak English. I can count at least three right now, in our (provisory) mailing list at Escritório Livre. What do the volunteers want to do? If a volunteer wants to contribute code, they need to understand C++. If they want to contribute to the website design then they need to understand HTML/CSS. And so on. There are basic per-requisite skills needed. And across all of these there is the need to be able to read/write English. I don't see how this can be avoided. But there is no need to be fluent. In fact, I bet we could work via Google Translations, if we were patient. But if someone is good with C++ or with HTML or other technical skills, then I think we can find a way for them to contribute, even with minimal English skills. They can help in spreading AOO, writing articles, helping user support, lectures, making AOO present in events (soon there will be FISL, and other large events). All of those things have to be made in Brazil and in Portuguese. I thought the example we showed yesterday from that guy who will install AOO in tens of thousands machines for a govenment digital inclusion project should be enough. Most of brazilian volunteers have no programming skills, but there are many other ways they can help. Including some existing ones like UX, wiki, bug hunting, and so on. Just one example: Miss Fatima Conti is a teacher at Pará Federal University. She is a respectable figure in Brazilian Open Source environment. She's more than 70 years old, she's not a programmer, but many many users read her blog. She used to write articles for our old BrOffice.org Magazine, but now she's helping to test AOO within her possibilities. She can do a lot more for AOO, in terms of marketing. But wait! We have no marketing yet. And she doesn't want to join a English mailing list because she has difficulties with this language. There are a lot of other examples. Most of people who wish to help are phisicians, administrators (I am an administrator with some technical skills), lawyers, teachers, account managers, and so on. In other words, we need to be able to communicate together as a project -- all of us. But we don't need to have huge discussion threads. In fact Lazy Consensus and JFDI both encourage getting things done over having lengthy discussions about non controversial proposals. Yes, I do think so. 3 - Some of them, even knowing English language, have difficulties to reach this list because they feel, let's say, unconfortable in dealing with famous people like many of you. =) Apache seems to be a serious place (maybe too serious) for those people. They are affraid to be misundestood. My philosophy with this project was to try to be the first person to make every possible mistake. I looked for things that no was trying, and did them, just to show that it could be done. I didn't care if I looked foolish. I think we need more people willing to take that kind of risk. I think you will find that the project is very forgiving of English learners. Again, yes. 4 - Many of us (90% I believe) came from an experience in LibO. There we faced a lot of issues about using brands, names and logos, because there is a lot of misunderstanding about who can or can't use them. Allowing people not directly involved with the project to use AOO brand/logo within certain clear rules could be very usefull and should help people to spread AOO. We receive and approve trademark and logo requests all the time. We just need a proposal. I can't guarantee that every proposal will be approved, but at least we have a process for reviewing such proposals: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/trademarks.html Ok. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/18 Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.de Hi, snip It is possible to work on Media-Wiki without English skills. You only need a small sheet with basic formatting commands. The UI of the Wiki uses native language. I don't know how many languages are supported, but I see a lot in the drop down list. Look at the categories FR, ES, JA, or RU to see what is possible. (BTW, you will not see a lot of German content, because we had already ooowiki.de before the openoffice-wiki started, and that has 1000 pages.) You can put a lot of end-user help into the wiki and go far beyond the build-in help. Kind regards Regina It's possible to do more than that. It's possible for users to create pages using preformated templates and forms. For example: If a user wishes to include some sort of tutorial in the wiki, he/she could only fill a form in a page. Once he/she clicks in Save buttom, the corresponding page is created, automaticaly categorized and displayed in another page containing a preformated semantic search that shows all related documents together. Without the need to edit pages and pages of references. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [DISCUSS] Remove old bugs.
2012/5/18 Pedro Giffuni p...@apache.org On 05/18/12 15:52, Kayo Hamid wrote: From ooo-qa. We can see a lot old bugs on issues.apache.org. Can we begin removing? It's a key thing for project? I volunteer to this. Eg, https://issues.apache.org/ooo/**show_bug.cgi?id=4549https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=4549(10 years old) +1 I would say it's strategic. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: MediaWiki update (was Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams)
Hi Pedro. I am available to help in anything you need. In fact updating and installing extensions is an easy job. Don't worry. 2012/5/18 Pedro Giffuni p...@apache.org Hello; --- Ven 18/5/12, Paulo de Souza Lima ha scritto: ... But what do you want to do? I want to upgrade Mediawiki to MW 1.19.x or, if it's not possible, at least to 1.17.4, and install some useful extensions. This shall not impact any actual function, but will provide us tools to make AOO wiki a lot more usable. I opened a JIRA issue: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-4816 I think infra has actually no obligation to work on this as MW is not officially supported here. I even volunteered to help but I actually don't have any experience with MW so please be prepared to provide a listing of the extensions and other things that must be taken into account, just as if you were doing the update. Pedro. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
2012/5/18 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a community/team page Well, As I told before, I would not call it a community. I would call it a team or, if this word sounds bad, maybe the UX Guys sounds better =) How can you identify, today, people who are working on wiki maintenance, for example? Note I'm not asking for *all* people, but the main ones. I couldn't do that until I have created some pages and Adailton questioned me about that. So I made a search in the wiki to find who made the last editions in the wiki, mainly after July 2011. And I found TJ. In his discussion page they used to change some messages, so I could find out that TJ and Adailton are the wiki guys. But this information was not anywhere in a clear view. Why not ease the work of displaying who is doing what? This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the relation to a people page? Imagine you ask to the wiki: Who are the guys working on infra for the last 2 months? Semantic searches can answer this question. And can reply it getting information from other systems, like CMS. Semantic features work on FAQs. We use semantic searches allied to a good ontology structure to answer questions people use to ask. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It would be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us think about such improvements. The same for documentation. But do think that a page with some names will change anything here? It depends on who are managing that page. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly. I agree
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
2012/5/16 Xin Li lxnice...@gmail.com +1. count me in I think it will be helpful for the ux issue discussion if we have a ooo-ux list or some other space for ux. Just for the records: In my view, UX is lot more than the software itself. It has to do with how users get answers to their questions and doubts also. And this has less to do with documentation than the easy access to it and all information about the software and the community communication channels. So, UX has to overview all those activities and make suggestions on how to improve them all. Regards -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Something wrong in download page for Linux users
Hello. I am a Ubuntu user. Yesterday I had to download AOO3.4 again, and I noticed the page see my OS as Linux, but it points to download of the RPM package. It should point to DEB package. Regards. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Outdated wiki content
Hi. I've created the category Outdated in order to classify all pages that need to be revised. If someone finds a page with clear outdated contents, please categorize it, if it is not categorized as Outdated yet. This should help us to seek and destroy unusable contents and mark pages to be revised. Thanks -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [OT] AOO in Telecenter
2012/5/17 drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.com On Thu, 2012-05-17 at 12:38 -0300, Claudio Filho wrote: Hi 2012/5/17 Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com: This is good! does it continue the activity of earlier years? Yes. Exist a decrease because the gov is passing the maintaining effectively to society, but some government programs like GESAC[1], yet continue. The difference from this program to a telecenter is that the internet is provided through satelite link, in places where haven't cable. [1]http://www.gesac.gov.br/ Wow. And will it be called Apache OpenOffice? And be in BR-PT? Can you also give us a sense of how many people will be reached (able to use) by these enhancements? Yes. Remember that BrOffice was killed after they rescued the users for them, and after started a FUD campain against this name. However, Yes, will be over pt-BR and with name Apache OpenOffice. Also, in case people don't know, would you be so kind as to explain what a Telecenter is? In Brasil started a many years ago in a moviment from organized society to make places with free access to computers with many apps and internet. After, this idea grew to a national plan, multiplying around the country, including free computing courses and digital inclusion for low income population. Yes. Perhaps the telecentros can be persuaded to help out with the effort required? (They may already be doing so, of course.) No. Was a asking from one of project coordinators about this. Is possible we help? IMO, is understand more some points and adjust it in the launchpad.org space. Ah - I think I understand and if so - YES, YES, YES we could use the help. I never got the synch to SVN to work - so, suppose it's back to the fist idea wich is, just load the source from the 3.4 release tarball into the launchpad system, from there we can start he build process. //drew Hi Drew. Nice to see you here =) In fact the guy told us that updates must be as automated as possible. It's because people who will do the maintenance job are not skilled enogh and asking them to type dpkg -i blablabla is out of question. I proposed him to offer some sort of bash script that could download and install the packages without much user interference, if automatic updates or a PPA aren't available soon. It's not the best option, but it could give time for the other options to become available. Regards -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Something wrong in download page for Linux users
2012/5/17 Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de @Paulo and Albina: Please can you browse to http://www.openoffice.org/** download/test/analyze.htmlhttp://www.openoffice.org/download/test/analyze.html and paste here the content of the table? Then we can see better what could be wrong. Thanks Marcus Hi, Marcus, I tried in Google Chrome and Firefox. There it is: *Variables from the browser* *Values* navigator.platform Linux i686navigator.platform.toLowerCase()linux i686navigator.languagept-BRnavigator.userLanguageundefinednavigator.systemLanguageundefinednavigator.userAgentMozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.168 Safari/535.19 navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase()mozilla/5.0 (x11; linux i686) applewebkit/535.19 (khtml, like gecko) chrome/18.0.1025.168 safari/535.19 navigator.javaEnabled() Yes getLink( VERSION, MIRROR, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/localized/pt-BR/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_pt-BR.tar.gz/download getArray() skip,Portuguese (Brazilian),http://br-pt.openoffice.org/,n,y,y getPlatform( SCHEMA ) Linux getLanguage() Portuguese (Brazilian) getLanguageISO() pt-BRhasMirrorLink()true -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Something wrong in download page for Linux users
Sorry. I forgot to paste results with Firefox: *Variables from the browser **Values*navigator.platform Linux i686navigator.platform.toLowerCase() linux i686navigator.language pt-BRnavigator.userLanguage undefinednavigator.systemLanguage undefinednavigator.userAgent Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/12.0 navigator.UserAgent (with Debian?) -1navigator.UserAgent (with Ubuntu?) 18navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase() mozilla/5.0 (x11; ubuntu; linux i686; rv:12.0) gecko/20100101 firefox/12.0 navigator.UserAgent (with Debian?) -1navigator.UserAgent (with Ubuntu?) 18navigator.javaEnabled() Yes getLink( VERSION, MIRROR, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/localized/pt-BR/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-deb_pt-BR.tar.gz/download getArray() skip,Portuguese (Brazilian),http://br-pt.openoffice.org/,n,y,ygetPlatform( SCHEMA ) Linux DebiangetLanguage() Portuguese (Brazilian)getLanguageISO() pt-BRhasMirrorLink() true 2012/5/17 Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org 2012/5/17 Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de @Paulo and Albina: Please can you browse to http://www.openoffice.org/** download/test/analyze.htmlhttp://www.openoffice.org/download/test/analyze.html and paste here the content of the table? Then we can see better what could be wrong. Thanks Marcus Hi, Marcus, I tried in Google Chrome and Firefox. There it is: *Variables from the browser* *Values* navigator.platform Linux i686navigator.platform.toLowerCase()linux i686navigator.languagept-BRnavigator.userLanguageundefinednavigator.systemLanguageundefinednavigator.userAgentMozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.168 Safari/535.19 navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase()mozilla/5.0 (x11; linux i686) applewebkit/535.19 (khtml, like gecko) chrome/18.0.1025.168 safari/535.19 navigator.javaEnabled() Yes getLink( VERSION, MIRROR, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/localized/pt-BR/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_pt-BR.tar.gz/download getArray() skip,Portuguese (Brazilian),http://br-pt.openoffice.org/,n,y,y getPlatform( SCHEMA ) Linux getLanguage() Portuguese (Brazilian) getLanguageISO() pt-BRhasMirrorLink()true -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Something wrong in download page for Linux users
Ok. I've tested in Google Chrome at home and it's working fine. Tomorrow morning I'll test in Google Chromium at my work. I'll keep you informed. Thanks 2012/5/17 Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de analyze.htm -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
2012/5/16 Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com Hello All, I would like to propose the creation of an ooo-ux@incubator.apache.orgmailing list. The frequency of UX-related discussions are increasing, and interest in the UX community is growing. It's time to create a mailing list to focus the conversation, and channel our creative energy ;) I volunteer to be a moderator, and would welcome a few others to join me. I'm not sure if I am eligible to be a moderator, but if I am, I would be happy to contribute on it. I am a Certified User Experience Professional with 15 years experience leading, managing and delivering user experience projects. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Designer Regards. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
2012/5/16 Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net On May 16, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Rob Weir wrote: snip From what I can tell, creating a new mailing list by itself does nothing to increase activity level in an area. We can look at the ooo-marketing and ooo-qa lists for examples of lists that were created, but then nothing much happened. They are buckets, not communities. And they never reached a critical mass of participation. At least not yet. Please keep discussing UX here on ooo-dev. Everyone is interested. Regards, Dave Actually, I would like to know who else is involved with UX. I've posted some threads about this issue here and received few replies. As long I can see, there are three to five people wishing to start this up, me, Kevin, Albino and maybe we could count on Raul. When I created PT-BR wiki section, a guy who contacted me at my wiki discussion page (Adailton if I can remember), but I'm not sure if he is in this list, and I don't know if he is involved with UX. Anybody else? -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: May I use Apahce OpenOffice and Apache Incubator logos on OpenOffice CD
2012/5/16 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:35 AM, Kazunari Hirano khir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I and my project members are preparing to create Apache OpenOffice 3.4.0 for Windows CD with templates, illustrations and photos provided by http://www.templatebank.com/ Here is label design draft. https://sites.google.com/site/khirano/Home/apache-openoffice-cd +1 -Rob +1 Very, very nice =) -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Preselect actual version in Bugzilla
Thanks for your input =) I was about to do that 2012/5/16 Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.de Hi, the version list in Bugzilla is too long. People often use the first item or the last item. In addition they now expect OOo3.4 and do not search for AOO34. Is it possible to preselect AOO34 at least? In HTML it would be using start tag option selected instead of simple option on item AOO34. Kind regards Regina -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [USER EXPERIENCE DESIGN] - AOO UX wiki refresh
2012/5/14 Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com Hello All, This note is confirm that I have refreshed the AOO UX wiki home page at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience . Changes: - renamed previous UX wiki page from User Experience to OpenOffice.org User Experience - created new Apache OpenOffice User Experience wiki page - added link from old UX wiki page to new wiki page - added link from new UX wiki page to old wiki page - update AOO wiki home page link to AOO UX, and provided new instructional text - redirected mediawiki links to Apache OpenOffice UX Next step: - create a formal archive for older UX content - add content to newly create Apache UX main page Regards, Kevin In addition, I have created a Category PT-BR and some pages on it, in order to have a workspace for brazilian contributors. Regards. -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: manuals on OpenOffice
2012/5/14 Jingbai jingbaibe...@gmail.com Hi Paulo: Hi! Guess you have already Joined the ODFAuthor Mailing list. I'm not sure. I feel like an extreme rookie here =) Can you tell me where can I subscribe? I think the articles on MediaWiki are very helpful. Here is an example: to demonstrate the needed features to write formulas and insert graphics. insert graphics. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos/Calc:_CHISQDIST_function We also would like to contribute some articles like hints and tips for AOO on the mediawiki. Indeed. I've been using those Mediawiki features a lot. Hope this can help. Betsy Bai Thanks -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: manuals on OpenOffice
2012/5/13 Raul Pacheco da Silva raulpachecodasi...@gmail.com Hello Pedro, Thanks for your reply, I am a volunteer in Brazil for the translation of manuals for Portuguese language (Brazil), I believe in the same way these manuals (esttilos and formatting with some variations) and even for creating these. 2012/5/13 Pedro Giffuni p...@apache.org Hi. I think I can help on this issue too. Rgds.\ -- Raul Pacheco da Silva Fone (11) 8536-6340 Skipe: raulpachecodasilva Messenger: rp...@hotmail.com Suzano - SP -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
Re: manuals on OpenOffice
Ok. I understand now. Anyway, I am available to contribute producing some documentation. Is there anyone driving these efforts already? Thanks. 2012/5/13 Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org Paulo de Souza Lima wrote: Our doubt is: The manuals will be kept under GNU License or should we wait for further discussions in order to define this issue? The books listed at your link, http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/**Documentation/OOo3_User_** Guides/OOo3.3_Chapters_ODThttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/OOo3.3_Chapters_ODT will not be relicensed. On the other hand, they were never the official documentation of OpenOffice or other suites, so the situation is exactly the same as it used to be. Draft of those book for Apache OpenOffice 3.4 were announced on this list: http://www.odfauthors.org/**apache-openoffice/english/** user-guides/getting-started-3.**4/draftshttp://www.odfauthors.org/apache-openoffice/english/user-guides/getting-started-3.4/drafts Then this project might want to produce official documentation different from the OOoAuthors books and suitable for inclusion in the release, but this is a totally different story. Regards, Andrea. -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
Re: [PROPOSAL] Wiki upgrade
Hi. What did you do? I didn't notice it. I just want to know if it's possible for the people from infra upgrade Mediawiki and install the suggested extensions. If it's possible, we could begin to build a really interactive wiki, focused in bringing the answers faster and easier to the users. It will be also possible to create pre-categorized and pre-formated pages using forms instead the editor. Another question I have: Who else than me and Kevin Grignon is working in this task (wiki organization)? I was seaching for UX team info, but it's outdated, just like the others. It would be nice to know who is involved in order to begin a working group, don't you think? This weekend is promising... :-P Cheers. 2012/5/11 Claudio Filho filh...@gmail.com Hi Paulo, i did some changes in wiki and understood the way to do it. I can help you with this task together with infra. Claudio -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
Re: [PROPOSAL][www] Redirected br.openoffice.org
2012/5/11 Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de Am 05/10/2012 02:56 PM, schrieb Rob Weir: Hi. I'd like to give my cents also... Rob is right. IMHO we shouldn't care about the country as we don't do any localization work for specific countries. It's all about languages only. Yes, I agree... But Please have a look for the install files. The ISO code at the end (in front of the file extension) is for languages. So, the de packages can be used by every German-speaking people all over the world. It's not for people in Germany only. I was wondering how many countries in the world speak German =)But I got another example: Every translation to Spanish is read by all Spanish speaking countries (and they are many) despite the regionalisms. The brazilian case is quite interesting because we can easily read pt-PT texts and all the other portuguese speaking countries can do it with our texts also. However, when all the others countries easily comunicate to each other, we brazilians feel a bit unconfortable reading pt-PT texts (I don't know if they feel the same about pt-BR). Another point is the community size. Brazilian users communtiy is far larger than any other portuguese speaking country. The last Orthografic Agreement is trying to reduce the distance between pt-BR and pt-PT, unifying the way we write portuguese words, but this is not enough. There are words meaning diferent things in both languages. For example: the word bicha in pt-PT means a row of people. In pt-BR it means fagot (sorry for this example, but it shows the size of the disaster if we do the wrong thing). I think it's unfair disregard other countries, but it's also unfair include brazilian people in (pt-)PT language. So the only way I see is allowing a country oriented language in this particular case. So, IMHO we should create any new domains/subdomains/redirects in context with language ISO codes (see here for a complete (?) list of all code OOo has and AOO can support: http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/Languageshttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Languages Yes, I agree. I just told all the above because I've created a category and some pages in PT-BR in the wiki, and someone questioned me (in my discussion page) why I've done that since there already was a PT category and pages. Anyway, the decision should include not only a website, but all the language related issues. PS: Yes, br = Breton and uk = Ukrainian. Also for me, my 2 ct. Marcus Cheers. -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Issues about the wiki
2012/5/9 Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com Re: Cwiki is a mess, but it works. ... Paulo, will you drive this activity? Hi. I would like to help on this task. I can help to organize the main wiki and take care of pt/pt-br section. For my part, I will be refreshing the UX project wiki. Regards, Kevin -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
Re: How To Install Apache OpenOffice 3.4 Via PPA On Ubuntu 12.04/11.10
I'm going to translate it to pt-BR. Cheers 2012/5/10 drew d...@baseanswers.com On Thu, 2012-05-10 at 13:21 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: http://www.upubuntu.com/2012/05/how-to-install-apache-openoffice-34-via.html Is there someplace on the website or wiki where we could add this link? Maybe the release notes? I'm trying the (11.10) install just now - no idea who this is, glad they got to it so directly, however. A mention someplace on the site would be great, imo. //drew -Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: ooo-users-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: ooo-users-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
Re: How To Install Apache OpenOffice 3.4 Via PPA On Ubuntu 12.04/11.10
2012/5/10 Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On Thursday, 10. May 2012 at 20:35, Rory O'Farrell wrote: On Thu, 10 May 2012 13:43:30 -0400 drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: On Thu, 2012-05-10 at 13:21 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: http://www.upubuntu.com/2012/05/how-to-install-apache-openoffice-34-via.html Is there someplace on the website or wiki where we could add this link? Maybe the release notes? I put a pt-br translation at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/PT-BR/FAQ/Instala%C3%A7%C3%A3o for now. as soon as a place for it is defined we can move it to there. -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
Issues about the wiki
Hi. I think it could be useful opening a new topic for this issue. I've noticed there are two diferent wikis, in fact. The old one inherited from OOo, based on Mediawiki and a new one, based on Cwiki. I was wondering which of them will be the main wiki in the near future. I have some ideas to propose, but they are attached to the chosen platform. Thanks in advance. -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
Re: Issues about the wiki
Sorry, I've posted this issue before reading the other messages. There's another topic open about this issue. 2012/5/9 Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org Hi. I think it could be useful opening a new topic for this issue. I've noticed there are two diferent wikis, in fact. The old one inherited from OOo, based on Mediawiki and a new one, based on Cwiki. I was wondering which of them will be the main wiki in the near future. I have some ideas to propose, but they are attached to the chosen platform. Thanks in advance. -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
Re: Introducing myself
2012/5/9 Claudio Filho filh...@gmail.com Hi 2012/5/8 Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org: I'm not a developer, but I have some expertise in wikis (Mediawiki, Moinmoin, Trac), translations (I am a former translator for BrOffice Magazine and I helped to create contents for pt-br LibreOffice website and wiki), localization (pootle), websites, blogs, and documentation (many chapters of LibreOffice pt-br documentation have my contribution), etc. Paulo, i wish to organize the mediawiki like we did in LibO. As we spoke (in pt-br), is easy to take the content from a place and put in other, organizing it while does this work. But now, the challenge is greater. I already did the support for translation, but need to continue the work. What you think? Hi. Just like I've posted in another thread, I think it's needed to decide what wiki to work on. Should we build a new structure for AOO in Cwiki, or should we maintain Mediawiki and recycle the information in it? I like to think a little far ahead: What do people expect to find in the wiki? Based on this question, I would choose Mediawiki as the main platform because of their semantic capabilities. I just don't know if Cwiki has those capabilities, also. Maybe someone more familiar with that tool could help me. Best, Claudio Cheers. -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
Re: Issues about the wiki
2012/5/9 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org ... Note that we have two websites: http://www.openoffice.org and http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg (When we graduate that second one will change to http://openoffice.apache.org) So why two websites? Why does this make sense? Consider this pair of websites as well: http://www.coca-cola.com/ and http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/ So the idea is that one website is public-facing, user-facing, about the Apache OpenOffice product. And the other is project-facing, about the project. It is the website (and associated CWiki) where we do the real work. The user-facing website will have a lot of translated content. The project website will not. With the user-facing website we should spend some extra time to make sure it looks as good as it can. With the project website, we don't want it too look bad, of course. But it is a busy workshop, where things are changing fast. We're pragmatic, not pretty. The Cwiki is a mess, but it works. That is the kind of distinction we have between the two websites. It is important to also note, that they are linked. For example, on the user-facing websites, when we talk about contributing to the project, we link them to the project website. -Rob Thanks, Rob. It seems clearer to me now. -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
Re: NewWikiMainPage
Hi. That's what I was talking about when I mentioned the old wiki content. Cheers. 2012/5/9 HKuerbiss hkuerb...@web.de Hello, has anyone of you read the main page in the last year-and-a-half? NEWS tells us about things that (possibly) happened in autumn 2010. The link to the 'old wiki main page' looks like a joke to me: the current main page really seems old enough ... Maybe there is a new wiki I did not find - if that is so, you better switch this one off. If you feel that I'm completely wrong, please let me know. Yours H. Kürbiß, Germany -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
Re: After AOO 3.4?
2012/5/9 RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com 2012/5/9 Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com: I was thinking on a central wiki page were our ideal users are defined by tasks more than by apps - Technical writers (scholars, scientific researchers, journalists, free lance writers...) - Non technical writers (students doing their homework...) - Small business (invoices, stock databases...) - ... with each item being a link to a subpage where we define - ideal user profile (how he/she uses AOO) - problems and possible solutions What do you think? I'll try to put some ideas together later this week. Yeap! I was thinking about something like that, but using semantic mediawiki extension. In order to do that, it would be necessary to build an ontology (re-define categories, create some properties, install some other mediawiki extensions, create some predifined pages with builtin searchs, and some other things that could be useful). The reason for that is to make easier for users to find the information they need wasting less time. Is anyone familiar with that technology? Regards Ricardo Rgds -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
Introducing myself
Hello. My name is Paulo. I'm a Claudio and Albino's friend and I would like to help Apache OpenOffice project. I'm not a developer, but I have some expertise in wikis (Mediawiki, Moinmoin, Trac), translations (I am a former translator for BrOffice Magazine and I helped to create contents for pt-br LibreOffice website and wiki), localization (pootle), websites, blogs, and documentation (many chapters of LibreOffice pt-br documentation have my contribution), etc. I am available to help wherever it is necessary, within my skills described above. Cheers. -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
Re: After AOO 3.4?
Hi. I would like to help on this task also. In fact, I've been fooling around the wiki and there are a bunch of outdated information and some of them could be recycled, others simply deleted, some of them could be updated. I was wondering if there is someone taking care of this issue. Case not, I would like to help on that too. Regards. 2012/5/8 Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 9:40 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Understanding who does what with our product is very important to defining a product direction that resonates with our users. The user experience team is about to refresh the UX work products on the wiki. An updated set of user roles/personas is our first step. Existing data can get us started, then we need to incorporate recent behavior shifts, including integrated social and mobile. Albino, Louis, Ricardo, would you like to contribute to these user definitions. I would. User whose professional success depends on publishing to academic and scientific journals is my nomination. Regards, Kevin On May 8, 2012, at 8:07 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote: Hi On Monday, 7 May 2012, RGB ES wrote: 2012/5/8 Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com javascript:;: Hi, RGB ES wrote: 2012/5/5 Albino Biasutti Neto biasut...@gmail.com javascript:;: Hi. We have to focus on end users, and seek feedback to research, created polls, and others. We need to get statistics AOO. Best, Albino Before that, we need to define who our end users are. We need a set of ideal users with clear needs: students who do their homework, independent writers that use on-line publishing systems, small companies that need to create an invoice or maintain a database of supplies... I'm curious... are you dismissing the vast numbers who were using OOo? Briefly, more than 95 percent of downloads from the mirrors were Windows users. But major deployments were almost entirely in the public sector. Some of the more obvious were listed here [0], but the page is out of date. All those groups have different needs, and the right answer for one group could be a problem for the others. I think that, as was suggested, an effective modus operandi is to work with the NL groups. For instance, there might be public sector or private needs for accessibility features. We here may not have the people to do that but we (an extended we at this point) can work with those wanting it to find the developers louis [0] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Major_OpenOffice.org_Deployments Regards Ricardo Sorry, but I cannot understand your question. I'm not dismissing anything. I just commented that a home user is not the same than a professional writer, and that both groups have different needs that ask for different solutions. Building usage statistics without considering the differences between users can lead to wrong conclusions: that's all. Maybe is for my professional background, but as physicists I know that before doing research (and analysing user statistics is research) you need a model of what you are looking for: on this case, a set of ideal users with a lists of needs and problems. Only then you will be able to find solutions. Regards Ricardo Well, as a historian I quite agree with you. My point was that we already have a lot of data, as that URL hints. Louis -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -- Paulo de Souza Lima Técnico em Eletrônica e Administrador http://www.pasl.net.br http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729 Para que as pessoas conquistem a paz em suas relações, a paz espiritual e a paz entre os povos, é preciso que antes se ganhe a batalha interna das virtudes sobre os defeitos - Talal Husseini - Filósofo Acropolitano For people to achieve peace in their relationships, spiritual peace and the peace among people, it's necessary, earlier, to win the internal battle between virtues and defects - Talal Husseini - Acropolitan Philosopher
