Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/04/2011 01:57 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:


On Aug 3, 2011, at 4:31 PM, Gavin McDonald wrote:





-Original Message-
From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2011 8:54 AM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?

Am 08/04/2011 12:38 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:




-Original Message-
From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 6:45 PM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?

Am 08/03/2011 02:17 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:

-Original Message-
From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 9:40 AM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?

Am 08/02/2011 11:03 PM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:




-Original Message-
From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 12:55 AM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?

Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method
withthe fllowing order:

1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software
(like today on "download.openoffice.org").

2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on
"download.openoffice.org/pther.html").

3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available
mirrors

will help

(like today on

"http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";).


Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something.


Yep, all possible here at the ASF right now.

See www.apache.org/mirrors for our equiv of step 3.


I've already understood that you don't want the OOo mirrors but
that we should use the Apache ones. ;-)


Hi Marcus,

don't count me as 100% on that yet, I want to know more about the
OOo mirrors too.


OK, if you have already questions just ask and I will try to give

answers.


not yet, working on it,




I just didn't want to be maintaining 150+ projects on one mirror
system and
1 project
on another mirror system. maintaining one mirror system is easier,
so If that is possible and our mirroring system can cope, and we can
maybe coax a few more mirrors our way all the better. Some of our
existing mirrors may decide that bandwidth is too much and leave, so
we need replacements.


I don't know about bandwidth but to get an impression about size and
amount please have a look here. This mirror has rsync'ed everything
that

was

released by Sun and Oracle:

http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/openoffice/


thanks,




If it makes sense to try and merge these somehow, I want to pursue
that avenue.


A first step should be to look for doubles.


yep,




We may need both for some time, we can not put non ASF releases on
our mirroring system anyway so what we are trying to resolve is from
our first ASF release onwards.


Hm, when looking at this mirror it is already hosting non-Apache

software:


ftp://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/mirrors/

Software from Apache and, e.g., OpenOffice.org is just a subset
within

many

other projects.


Sorry, that isn't what I meant. The mirrors get their content from us
right, we can not provide them with non-asf released software to put
on their mirror copy of our dist tree [1] . They are of course welcome
to provide non-asf mirrors as most of them already do.

[1] - http://apache.org/dist/

Gav...


OK, let me try again. The mirrors can distribute what ever they want but
within the Apache subdirs only ASF licensed software is allowed. Have a

got it

right now?


Spot on.

And the only way non ASF licenses software will get into the Apache subdirs
is
if we put it there in the first place.
A project makes a release and puts the files of that release into a specific
area of
svn. That then syncs up with our main dist area, mirrors then sync up from
there.


Do we have to commit our binary files into SVN? I hope not. ;-)


IOW, the pre-existing mirror system for OOo needs to continue and be
referred to
in documentation and 'older releases' page so that folks can get pre-asf
released
versions of OOo from there. Only new releases from now onwards developed
here
at ASF will be put into our release/dist areas.


Yes, sounds a reasonable separation.

However, when we don't migrate our Mirrorbrain load balancer, then we 
need a new method to choose an appropriate mirror as the current 
"download.cgi" works only for ASF mirrors.



Here is the big question.

As long as the Apache hosted version of download.openoffice.org points to 
mirrors with already existing OOo releases that were put on the mirrors by 
Oracle/Sun then we are A-OK? Correct?

If so, then I think we are good to go as long as it is clear what is AL2.0 and 
what is not.

Then the implication is that the magic on the download pages should clearly 
indicate AL2.0 or legacy - maybe with color, a title change and an Apache 
feather 

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Dave Fisher]

On Aug 3, 2011, at 4:31 PM, Gavin McDonald wrote:

> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
>> Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2011 8:54 AM
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
>> 
>> Am 08/04/2011 12:38 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 6:45 PM
>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
>>>> 
>>>> Am 08/03/2011 02:17 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:
>>>>>> -Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 9:40 AM
>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am 08/02/2011 11:03 PM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 12:55 AM
>>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method
>>>>>>>> withthe fllowing order:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software
>>>>>>>> (like today on "download.openoffice.org").
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on
>>>>>>>> "download.openoffice.org/pther.html").
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available
>>>>>>>> mirrors
>>>>>>> will help
>>>>>>>> (like today on
>>> "http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yep, all possible here at the ASF right now.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> See www.apache.org/mirrors for our equiv of step 3.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've already understood that you don't want the OOo mirrors but
>>>>>> that we should use the Apache ones. ;-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Marcus,
>>>>> 
>>>>> don't count me as 100% on that yet, I want to know more about the
>>>>> OOo mirrors too.
>>>> 
>>>> OK, if you have already questions just ask and I will try to give
> answers.
>>> 
>>> not yet, working on it,
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> I just didn't want to be maintaining 150+ projects on one mirror
>>>>> system and
>>>>> 1 project
>>>>> on another mirror system. maintaining one mirror system is easier,
>>>>> so If that is possible and our mirroring system can cope, and we can
>>>>> maybe coax a few more mirrors our way all the better. Some of our
>>>>> existing mirrors may decide that bandwidth is too much and leave, so
>>>>> we need replacements.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't know about bandwidth but to get an impression about size and
>>>> amount please have a look here. This mirror has rsync'ed everything
>>>> that
>>> was
>>>> released by Sun and Oracle:
>>>> 
>>>> http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/openoffice/
>>> 
>>> thanks,
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> If it makes sense to try and merge these somehow, I want to pursue
>>>>> that avenue.
>>>> 
>>>> A first step should be to look for doubles.
>>> 
>>> yep,
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> We may need both for some time, we can not put non ASF releases on
>>>>> our mirroring system anyway so what we are trying to resolve is from
>>>>> our first ASF release onwards.
>>>> 
>>>> Hm, when l

RE: How to handle the downloads?

[Gavin McDonald]

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2011 8:54 AM
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
> 
> Am 08/04/2011 12:38 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 6:45 PM
> >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
> >>
> >> Am 08/03/2011 02:17 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 9:40 AM
> >>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
> >>>>
> >>>> Am 08/02/2011 11:03 PM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -Original Message-
> >>>>>> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 12:55 AM
> >>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method
> >>>>>> withthe fllowing order:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software
> >>>>>> (like today on "download.openoffice.org").
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on
> >>>>>> "download.openoffice.org/pther.html").
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available
> >>>>>> mirrors
> >>>>> will help
> >>>>>> (like today on
> > "http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yep, all possible here at the ASF right now.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> See www.apache.org/mirrors for our equiv of step 3.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've already understood that you don't want the OOo mirrors but
> >>>> that we should use the Apache ones. ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Hi Marcus,
> >>>
> >>> don't count me as 100% on that yet, I want to know more about the
> >>> OOo mirrors too.
> >>
> >> OK, if you have already questions just ask and I will try to give
answers.
> >
> > not yet, working on it,
> >
> >>
> >>> I just didn't want to be maintaining 150+ projects on one mirror
> >>> system and
> >>> 1 project
> >>> on another mirror system. maintaining one mirror system is easier,
> >>> so If that is possible and our mirroring system can cope, and we can
> >>> maybe coax a few more mirrors our way all the better. Some of our
> >>> existing mirrors may decide that bandwidth is too much and leave, so
> >>> we need replacements.
> >>
> >> I don't know about bandwidth but to get an impression about size and
> >> amount please have a look here. This mirror has rsync'ed everything
> >> that
> > was
> >> released by Sun and Oracle:
> >>
> >> http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/openoffice/
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> >>
> >>> If it makes sense to try and merge these somehow, I want to pursue
> >>> that avenue.
> >>
> >> A first step should be to look for doubles.
> >
> > yep,
> >
> >>
> >>> We may need both for some time, we can not put non ASF releases on
> >>> our mirroring system anyway so what we are trying to resolve is from
> >>> our first ASF release onwards.
> >>
> >> Hm, when looking at this mirror it is already hosting non-Apache
software:
> >>
> >> ftp://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/mirrors/
> >>
> >> Software from Apache and, e.g., OpenOffice.org is just a subset
> >> within
> > many
> >> other projects.
> >
> > Sorry, that isn't what I meant. The mirrors get their content from us
> > right

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/04/2011 12:38 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:




-Original Message-
From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 6:45 PM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?

Am 08/03/2011 02:17 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:

-Original Message-
From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 9:40 AM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?

Am 08/02/2011 11:03 PM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:




-Original Message-
From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 12:55 AM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?

Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method
withthe fllowing order:

1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software
(like today on "download.openoffice.org").

2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on
"download.openoffice.org/pther.html").

3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available
mirrors

will help

(like today on

"http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";).


Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something.


Yep, all possible here at the ASF right now.

See www.apache.org/mirrors for our equiv of step 3.


I've already understood that you don't want the OOo mirrors but that
we should use the Apache ones. ;-)


Hi Marcus,

don't count me as 100% on that yet, I want to know more about the OOo
mirrors too.


OK, if you have already questions just ask and I will try to give answers.


not yet, working on it,




I just didn't want to be maintaining 150+ projects on one mirror
system and
1 project
on another mirror system. maintaining one mirror system is easier, so
If that is possible and our mirroring system can cope, and we can
maybe coax a few more mirrors our way all the better. Some of our
existing mirrors may decide that bandwidth is too much and leave, so
we need replacements.


I don't know about bandwidth but to get an impression about size and
amount please have a look here. This mirror has rsync'ed everything that

was

released by Sun and Oracle:

http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/openoffice/


thanks,




If it makes sense to try and merge these somehow, I want to pursue
that avenue.


A first step should be to look for doubles.


yep,




We may need both for some time, we can not put non ASF releases on our
mirroring system anyway so what we are trying to resolve is from our
first ASF release onwards.


Hm, when looking at this mirror it is already hosting non-Apache software:

ftp://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/mirrors/

Software from Apache and, e.g., OpenOffice.org is just a subset within

many

other projects.


Sorry, that isn't what I meant. The mirrors get their content from us right,
we can not
provide them with non-asf released software to put on their mirror copy of
our
dist tree [1] . They are of course welcome to provide non-asf mirrors as
most of them already do.

[1] - http://apache.org/dist/

Gav...


OK, let me try again. The mirrors can distribute what ever they want but 
within the Apache subdirs only ASF licensed software is allowed. Have a 
got it right now?


Marcus




Am 08/02/2011 04:38 PM, schrieb Donald Whytock:

A consideration...I for one have a need to be able to select my
mirror.  My office's firewall blocks certain domains and websites,
especially those recognized as "hosting" or "file-sharing" sites.
It does not, however, block .edu sites, so when I download an
Apache product I select a university mirror.

Other users may have similar constraints.  If OOo's download
process is going to tie into Apache mirroring, please don't
completely eliminate the capacity to select the mirror.

Don

RE: How to handle the downloads?

[Gavin McDonald]

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 6:45 PM
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
> 
> Am 08/03/2011 02:17 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 9:40 AM
> >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
> >>
> >> Am 08/02/2011 11:03 PM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 12:55 AM
> >>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method
> >>>> withthe fllowing order:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software
> >>>> (like today on "download.openoffice.org").
> >>>>
> >>>> 2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on
> >>>> "download.openoffice.org/pther.html").
> >>>>
> >>>> 3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available
> >>>> mirrors
> >>> will help
> >>>> (like today on
"http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";).
> >>>>
> >>>> Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something.
> >>>
> >>> Yep, all possible here at the ASF right now.
> >>>
> >>> See www.apache.org/mirrors for our equiv of step 3.
> >>
> >> I've already understood that you don't want the OOo mirrors but that
> >> we should use the Apache ones. ;-)
> >
> > Hi Marcus,
> >
> > don't count me as 100% on that yet, I want to know more about the OOo
> > mirrors too.
> 
> OK, if you have already questions just ask and I will try to give answers.

not yet, working on it,

> 
> > I just didn't want to be maintaining 150+ projects on one mirror
> > system and
> > 1 project
> > on another mirror system. maintaining one mirror system is easier, so
> > If that is possible and our mirroring system can cope, and we can
> > maybe coax a few more mirrors our way all the better. Some of our
> > existing mirrors may decide that bandwidth is too much and leave, so
> > we need replacements.
> 
> I don't know about bandwidth but to get an impression about size and
> amount please have a look here. This mirror has rsync'ed everything that
was
> released by Sun and Oracle:
> 
> http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/openoffice/

thanks,

> 
> > If it makes sense to try and merge these somehow, I want to pursue
> > that avenue.
> 
> A first step should be to look for doubles.

yep,

> 
> > We may need both for some time, we can not put non ASF releases on our
> > mirroring system anyway so what we are trying to resolve is from our
> > first ASF release onwards.
> 
> Hm, when looking at this mirror it is already hosting non-Apache software:
> 
> ftp://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/mirrors/
> 
> Software from Apache and, e.g., OpenOffice.org is just a subset within
many
> other projects.

Sorry, that isn't what I meant. The mirrors get their content from us right,
we can not
provide them with non-asf released software to put on their mirror copy of
our
dist tree [1] . They are of course welcome to provide non-asf mirrors as
most of them already do.

[1] - http://apache.org/dist/

Gav...

> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
> >>>> Am 08/02/2011 04:38 PM, schrieb Donald Whytock:
> >>>>> A consideration...I for one have a need to be able to select my
> >>>>> mirror.  My office's firewall blocks certain domains and websites,
> >>>>> especially those recognized as "hosting" or "file-sharing" sites.
> >>>>> It does not, however, block .edu sites, so when I download an
> >>>>> Apache product I select a university mirror.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Other users may have similar constraints.  If OOo's download
> >>>>> process is going to tie into Apache mirroring, please don't
> >>>>> completely eliminate the capacity to select the mirror.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Don

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/03/2011 08:22 PM, schrieb Dave Fisher:

Hi Marcus,

This is really good.


I've updated the diagram with more details and divided it into a 3-way-method:

Download Choice #1:
Of course the One-Click-Download URL.

Download Choice #2:
If an install file is not available (wrong OS, no language, etc.) the user can 
select from a pre-defined list.

Download Choice #3:
The user can search for himself the most appropriate mirror server.


Essentially with a little "JS" magic we will choose between three different 
download pages.


Ahm, not completely. You have to see the first 2 methods in the given 
order. I've corrected a missing "not" in the quote above.


Only when #1 doesn't provide a working URL (the users should get 
notified about this fact, yes) they get redirected to #2.


#3 is indeed only reachable from the side navigation. Pointing users to 
the raw mirror server should be our last intention.



I think that the download/index.html page should show text about what is being 
identified and then an indication that a load to go to #2 or #3 is happening 
and why. If there is a delay of 10 seconds the user might want to choose #2 or 
#3 automatically.


Yes, currently in OOo project this works well. The browser data gets 
read and the OS and language is shown in the green downlod box. And for 
this combination a URL gets created.


Unfortunatelly it's also possible to get a non-working URL and this 
results in a 404 page. We haven't finished the exception catching so 
far. But new project, new try. ;-)



And of course as now #2 and #3 are choices from the right side navigation.


Yes.

Marcus




Am 08/03/2011 05:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown:

Marcus (OOo) wrote:

Am 08/03/2011 04:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown:

Marcus (OOo) wrote:

I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work:

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png

As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to
change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble
the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL.

Marcus


Marcus,

One thing I would like to ask. That the user _not_ be offered a file
that does not exist. We both saw that with the OOo system to many times.
 From non-existent "with JRE" plus "language" to versions for Blackberry.

Andy


For the case of an unavailable mirror I've added the "File exists on
mirror?" box. Here the non-exisiting URL should be catched and exchanged
with a working one.

But for the special things like OOo on Blackberry we need to catch such
kind of impossibilities earlier. Maybe right after the user agent was
read and it's clear if it's for Windows, Linux, Mac, Solaris or indeed
something different.

Thanks for the hint.

Marcus



Just trying to prevent known problems from happening again.

Andy

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Marcus,

This is really good.

> I've updated the diagram with more details and divided it into a 3-way-method:
> 
> Download Choice #1:
> Of course the One-Click-Download URL.
> 
> Download Choice #2:
> If an install file is available (wrong OS, no language, etc.) the user can 
> select from a pre-defined list.
> 
> Download Choice #3:
> The user can search for himself the most appropriate mirror server.

Essentially with a little "JS" magic we will choose between three different 
download pages.

I think that the download/index.html page should show text about what is being 
identified and then an indication that a load to go to #2 or #3 is happening 
and why. If there is a delay of 10 seconds the user might want to choose #2 or 
#3 automatically.

And of course as now #2 and #3 are choices from the right side navigation.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
> Am 08/03/2011 05:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown:
>> Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>>> Am 08/03/2011 04:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown:
 Marcus (OOo) wrote:
> I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work:
> 
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png
> 
> As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to
> change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble
> the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL.
> 
> Marcus
 
 Marcus,
 
 One thing I would like to ask. That the user _not_ be offered a file
 that does not exist. We both saw that with the OOo system to many times.
 From non-existent "with JRE" plus "language" to versions for Blackberry.
 
 Andy
>>> 
>>> For the case of an unavailable mirror I've added the "File exists on
>>> mirror?" box. Here the non-exisiting URL should be catched and exchanged
>>> with a working one.
>>> 
>>> But for the special things like OOo on Blackberry we need to catch such
>>> kind of impossibilities earlier. Maybe right after the user agent was
>>> read and it's clear if it's for Windows, Linux, Mac, Solaris or indeed
>>> something different.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the hint.
>>> 
>>> Marcus
>>> 
>> 
>> Just trying to prevent known problems from happening again.
>> 
>> Andy

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

I've updated the diagram with more details and divided it into a 
3-way-method:


Download Choice #1:
Of course the One-Click-Download URL.

Download Choice #2:
If an install file is available (wrong OS, no language, etc.) the user 
can select from a pre-defined list.


Download Choice #3:
The user can search for himself the most appropriate mirror server.

Marcus



Am 08/03/2011 05:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown:

Marcus (OOo) wrote:

Am 08/03/2011 04:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown:

Marcus (OOo) wrote:

I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work:

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png

As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to
change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble
the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL.

Marcus


Marcus,

One thing I would like to ask. That the user _not_ be offered a file
that does not exist. We both saw that with the OOo system to many times.
From non-existent "with JRE" plus "language" to versions for Blackberry.

Andy


For the case of an unavailable mirror I've added the "File exists on
mirror?" box. Here the non-exisiting URL should be catched and exchanged
with a working one.

But for the special things like OOo on Blackberry we need to catch such
kind of impossibilities earlier. Maybe right after the user agent was
read and it's clear if it's for Windows, Linux, Mac, Solaris or indeed
something different.

Thanks for the hint.

Marcus



Just trying to prevent known problems from happening again.

Andy

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Ross Gardler]

On 3 August 2011 16:16, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
> Am 08/03/2011 04:57 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

...

>> If that's the case then ignore my mail.
>
> Hm, not really, as we could bring together both magics into one process.

OH, that bit is "easy" the "choose mirror" part of your "JS Magic"
would request info from the existing mirror CGI code (might need some
tweaks to provide the data in a usable form, but I'm sure infra@ are
happy to help there once requirements are clear).

Ross


-- 
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Andy Brown]

Marcus (OOo) wrote:

Am 08/03/2011 04:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown:

Marcus (OOo) wrote:

I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work:

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png

As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to
change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble
the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL.

Marcus


Marcus,

One thing I would like to ask. That the user _not_ be offered a file
that does not exist. We both saw that with the OOo system to many times.
From non-existent "with JRE" plus "language" to versions for Blackberry.

Andy


For the case of an unavailable mirror I've added the "File exists on
mirror?" box. Here the non-exisiting URL should be catched and exchanged
with a working one.

But for the special things like OOo on Blackberry we need to catch such
kind of impossibilities earlier. Maybe right after the user agent was
read and it's clear if it's for Windows, Linux, Mac, Solaris or indeed
something different.

Thanks for the hint.

Marcus



Just trying to prevent known problems from happening again.

Andy

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/03/2011 04:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown:

Marcus (OOo) wrote:

I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work:

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png

As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to
change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble
the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL.

Marcus


Marcus,

One thing I would like to ask. That the user _not_ be offered a file
that does not exist. We both saw that with the OOo system to many times.
From non-existent "with JRE" plus "language" to versions for Blackberry.

Andy


For the case of an unavailable mirror I've added the "File exists on 
mirror?" box. Here the non-exisiting URL should be catched and exchanged 
with a working one.


But for the special things like OOo on Blackberry we need to catch such 
kind of impossibilities earlier. Maybe right after the user agent was 
read and it's clear if it's for Windows, Linux, Mac, Solaris or indeed 
something different.


Thanks for the hint.

Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Kay Schenk]

On 08/02/2011 01:45 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:

Kay,


<-- lots snipped -->



http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/www/index.html


ok, I jsut updated my svn trunk but before you added this I guess. I'll 
take a look. I'll start a new thread on something related -- a new logo.




Will be there soon. I think I committed more at once than I should. There is a 
lot of deadwood there that should be removed.

Regards,
Dave





To get headers and footers a template is needed and the view.pm will
need adjustment.

See
http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/website-local.html#directory_layout


thanks for this info as well...



Regards, Dave






--

MzK

"If you can keep your head when all others around you
 are losing theirs - maybe you don't fully understand
 the situation!"
-- Unknown

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/03/2011 04:57 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

On 3 August 2011 15:53, Ross Gardler  wrote:

On 3 August 2011 15:47, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work:

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png

As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change
a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest
mirror server + file name to get the download URL.


I'm still struggling to understand why the existing ASF process for
selecting the nearest mirror is not appropriate for this.

If you use the existing infrastructure then all your "JS Magic" is not
necessary (although I confess to not knowing exactly how the ASF
mirror system works, for me it just works).


Oh, wait, the penny might have dropped. Is the "JS Magic" doing more
than finding a mirror? e.g. it is deciding which language pack to
download etc.


Yes, we have to recognize the language and OS to know the appropriate 
install file to assemble the correct download URL.



If that's the case then ignore my mail.


Hm, not really, as we could bring together both magics into one process.

Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/03/2011 04:53 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

On 3 August 2011 15:47, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work:

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png

As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change
a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest
mirror server + file name to get the download URL.


I'm still struggling to understand why the existing ASF process for
selecting the nearest mirror is not appropriate for this.

If you use the existing infrastructure then all your "JS Magic" is not
necessary (although I confess to not knowing exactly how the ASF
mirror system works, for me it just works).


I've not said that the ASF process is not appropriate. ;-) For OOo we 
had our own and I know that and how it's working. However, at the moment 
I've no clue of the ASF process.


Therefore I've first created some boxes to show what is important. If 
all that we need is already available and working, then fine.


So, when we can agree on the diagram, then I would try to figure out how 
the ASF process works.


Marcus




Am 08/02/2011 01:34 AM, schrieb Marcus (OOo):


Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


...


The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
used.


Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)


Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to
look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done
then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it.


Good idea. Will do so.


We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network
can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good
time.


Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Ross Gardler]

On 3 August 2011 15:53, Ross Gardler  wrote:
> On 3 August 2011 15:47, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
>> I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work:
>>
>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png
>>
>> As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change
>> a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest
>> mirror server + file name to get the download URL.
>
> I'm still struggling to understand why the existing ASF process for
> selecting the nearest mirror is not appropriate for this.
>
> If you use the existing infrastructure then all your "JS Magic" is not
> necessary (although I confess to not knowing exactly how the ASF
> mirror system works, for me it just works).

Oh, wait, the penny might have dropped. Is the "JS Magic" doing more
than finding a mirror? e.g. it is deciding which language pack to
download etc.

If that's the case then ignore my mail.

Ross

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Andy Brown]

Marcus (OOo) wrote:

I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work:

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png

As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to
change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble
the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL.

Marcus


Marcus,

One thing I would like to ask.  That the user _not_ be offered a file 
that does not exist.  We both saw that with the OOo system to many 
times.  From non-existent "with JRE" plus "language" to versions for 
Blackberry.


Andy

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Ross Gardler]

On 3 August 2011 15:47, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
> I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png
>
> As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change
> a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest
> mirror server + file name to get the download URL.

I'm still struggling to understand why the existing ASF process for
selecting the nearest mirror is not appropriate for this.

If you use the existing infrastructure then all your "JS Magic" is not
necessary (although I confess to not knowing exactly how the ASF
mirror system works, for me it just works).

Ross


>
> Marcus
>
>
>
> Am 08/02/2011 01:34 AM, schrieb Marcus (OOo):
>>
>> Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>>>
>>> On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

 Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
> The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
> you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
> used.

 Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)
>>>
>>> Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to
>>> look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done
>>> then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it.
>>
>> Good idea. Will do so.
>>
>>> We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network
>>> can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good
>>> time.
>>
>> Marcus
>



-- 
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work:

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png

As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to 
change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble 
the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL.


Marcus



Am 08/02/2011 01:34 AM, schrieb Marcus (OOo):

Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


...


The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
used.


Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)


Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to
look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done
then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it.


Good idea. Will do so.


We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network
can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good
time.


Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/03/2011 02:17 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:

-Original Message-
From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 9:40 AM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?

Am 08/02/2011 11:03 PM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:




-Original Message-
From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 12:55 AM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?

Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method
withthe fllowing order:

1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software
(like today on "download.openoffice.org").

2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on
"download.openoffice.org/pther.html").

3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available
mirrors

will help

(like today on "http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";).

Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something.


Yep, all possible here at the ASF right now.

See www.apache.org/mirrors for our equiv of step 3.


I've already understood that you don't want the OOo mirrors but that we
should use the Apache ones. ;-)


Hi Marcus,

don't count me as 100% on that yet, I want to know more about the OOo
mirrors too.


OK, if you have already questions just ask and I will try to give answers.


I just didn't want to be maintaining 150+ projects on one mirror system and
1 project
on another mirror system. maintaining one mirror system is easier, so If
that is possible
and our mirroring system can cope, and we can maybe coax a few more mirrors
our way
all the better. Some of our existing mirrors may decide that bandwidth is
too much and
leave, so we need replacements.


I don't know about bandwidth but to get an impression about size and 
amount please have a look here. This mirror has rsync'ed everything that 
was released by Sun and Oracle:


http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/openoffice/


If it makes sense to try and merge these somehow, I want to pursue that
avenue.


A first step should be to look for doubles.


We may need both for some time, we can not put non ASF releases on our
mirroring system
anyway so what we are trying to resolve is from our first ASF release
onwards.


Hm, when looking at this mirror it is already hosting non-Apache software:

ftp://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/mirrors/

Software from Apache and, e.g., OpenOffice.org is just a subset within 
many other projects.


Marcus




Am 08/02/2011 04:38 PM, schrieb Donald Whytock:

A consideration...I for one have a need to be able to select my
mirror.  My office's firewall blocks certain domains and websites,
especially those recognized as "hosting" or "file-sharing" sites.
It does not, however, block .edu sites, so when I download an Apache
product I select a university mirror.

Other users may have similar constraints.  If OOo's download process
is going to tie into Apache mirroring, please don't completely
eliminate the capacity to select the mirror.

Don

RE: How to handle the downloads?

[Gavin McDonald]

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 9:40 AM
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
> 
> Am 08/02/2011 11:03 PM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 12:55 AM
> >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
> >>
> >> Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method
> >> withthe fllowing order:
> >>
> >> 1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software
> >> (like today on "download.openoffice.org").
> >>
> >> 2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on
> >> "download.openoffice.org/pther.html").
> >>
> >> 3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available
> >> mirrors
> > will help
> >> (like today on "http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";).
> >>
> >> Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something.
> >
> > Yep, all possible here at the ASF right now.
> >
> > See www.apache.org/mirrors for our equiv of step 3.
> 
> I've already understood that you don't want the OOo mirrors but that we
> should use the Apache ones. ;-)

Hi Marcus,

don't count me as 100% on that yet, I want to know more about the OOo
mirrors too.

I just didn't want to be maintaining 150+ projects on one mirror system and
1 project
on another mirror system. maintaining one mirror system is easier, so If
that is possible
and our mirroring system can cope, and we can maybe coax a few more mirrors
our way
all the better. Some of our existing mirrors may decide that bandwidth is
too much and
leave, so we need replacements.

If it makes sense to try and merge these somehow, I want to pursue that
avenue.

We may need both for some time, we can not put non ASF releases on our
mirroring system
anyway so what we are trying to resolve is from our first ASF release
onwards.

Gav...


> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
> >> Am 08/02/2011 04:38 PM, schrieb Donald Whytock:
> >>> A consideration...I for one have a need to be able to select my
> >>> mirror.  My office's firewall blocks certain domains and websites,
> >>> especially those recognized as "hosting" or "file-sharing" sites.
> >>> It does not, however, block .edu sites, so when I download an Apache
> >>> product I select a university mirror.
> >>>
> >>> Other users may have similar constraints.  If OOo's download process
> >>> is going to tie into Apache mirroring, please don't completely
> >>> eliminate the capacity to select the mirror.
> >>>
> >>> Don

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/02/2011 11:03 PM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:




-Original Message-
From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 12:55 AM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?

Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method withthe
fllowing order:

1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software (like
today on "download.openoffice.org").

2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on
"download.openoffice.org/pther.html").

3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available mirrors

will help

(like today on "http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";).

Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something.


Yep, all possible here at the ASF right now.

See www.apache.org/mirrors for our equiv of step 3.


I've already understood that you don't want the OOo mirrors but that we 
should use the Apache ones. ;-)


Marcus




Am 08/02/2011 04:38 PM, schrieb Donald Whytock:

A consideration...I for one have a need to be able to select my
mirror.  My office's firewall blocks certain domains and websites,
especially those recognized as "hosting" or "file-sharing" sites.  It
does not, however, block .edu sites, so when I download an Apache
product I select a university mirror.

Other users may have similar constraints.  If OOo's download process
is going to tie into Apache mirroring, please don't completely
eliminate the capacity to select the mirror.

Don

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Dave Fisher]

On Aug 2, 2011, at 2:05 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> A use case to consider, for future possibilities.   What would be
> required to do this well, not from a web page, but inside the
> OpenOffice application?  So patches, extensions, templates, even
> upgrades initiated from within the app itself, without launching a
> browser?
> 
> Is that doable?  If the geo location is done via IP address, and there
> is a REST API for finding the closest mirrors, and that returns data
> in XML or JSON, that it should be universally consumable.

I don't see any technical trouble. Once we establish the way we interact with 
the download mirrors than simple requests can be made using an HTTPClient or 
FTPClient library.

Maybe Apache HttpClient - http://hc.apache.org/

Regards,
Dave

> 
> -Rob
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 4:45 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> Kay,
>> 
>> On Aug 2, 2011, at 11:43 AM, Kay Schenk wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 08/02/2011 09:05 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
 
 On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:06 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
 
> Am 08/02/2011 04:53 PM, schrieb Dave Fisher:
>> 
>> On Aug 2, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 08/02/2011 02:15 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
 On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Marcus
 (OOo)wrote:
> Am 08/02/2011 03:00 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:
>> 
>> On Aug 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
 
 On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus
 (OOo)   wrote:
> 
> Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
 
 ...
 
>> The ASF does not care what your download page
>> looks like as long as you use the CGI scripts to
>> ensure that an appropriate mirror site is used.
> 
> Hm, let's see how independent the download thing
> really will be. ;-)
 
 Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the
 download page to look like, without linking it in
 from elsewhere. Once that is done then we can look at
 making the download.cgi work the way you want it.
>>> 
>>> Good idea. Will do so.
>> 
>> I have a script for downloading the download web source
>> from the kenai svn.
>> 
>> If I download the complete AOOo svn tree particularly
>> ooo/trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh
>> 
>> You can run that script like so:
>> 
>> $ ../trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh
>> ../trunk/tools/dev/web-list.txt .
>> 
>> You then get this (along with all the sub-projects in the
>> web-list.txt)
>> 
>> download dave$ ls -1 2.4.3 all_beta.html all_rc.html
>> cachedimages common contribute.html download.js
>> download2.js download_bouncer.js download_mirrorbrain.js
>> exceptions.css globalvars.js index.html languages.js
>> md5sums next notes.html other.html print_tables.js
>> robots.txt sdk sdk.html source stable.html test
>> 
>> So it's there and it is a matter of wrapping it
>> properly.
> 
> I don't know what you mean with "wrapping". It's working
> and with adjustment of CSS (header, footer, graphics, etc.)
> and underlaying mirror structure it should run also for
> Apache.
>> 
>> Should we start by committing the download site as a
>> subsite of our incubator project?
> 
> The websites inside the incubator project should be
> developer-oriented. But the download is nearly 100%
> user-related, so I would like to see this content to be
> continued on "www.openoffice.org" and not directly in a
> Apache domain.
> 
 
 I think the point is this:  Even as we preserve the content
 of the OpenOffice.org website, we're not going to be
 re-hosting the Mercurial repositories on OO.o.  Everything
 that was formerly in Mercurial will need to migrate somewhere
 else, either SVN at Apache or to Hg at Apache-Extras.   The
 future OO.o website, hosted by Apache will have its source
 files checked into SVN at Apache.  We'd have a mechanism to
 publish these files, on modification, to the right directory
 for the web server.
 
 We'll need a directory structure in SVN that reflects the
 fact that we'll be storing source files for two websites
 there.  This is not hard.
>>> 
>>> Right. In the SVN repo we have to make the separation of the 2
>>> domains visible.'
>> 
>> Yes that is very true, but there is a problem. We only have the
>> one incubator site in the Apache CMS and we need to do some
>> experimental conversions. Let's mi

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Rob Weir]

A use case to consider, for future possibilities.   What would be
required to do this well, not from a web page, but inside the
OpenOffice application?  So patches, extensions, templates, even
upgrades initiated from within the app itself, without launching a
browser?

Is that doable?  If the geo location is done via IP address, and there
is a REST API for finding the closest mirrors, and that returns data
in XML or JSON, that it should be universally consumable.

-Rob


On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 4:45 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> Kay,
>
> On Aug 2, 2011, at 11:43 AM, Kay Schenk wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 08/02/2011 09:05 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>
>>> On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:06 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>>>
 Am 08/02/2011 04:53 PM, schrieb Dave Fisher:
>
> On Aug 2, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>
>> Am 08/02/2011 02:15 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Marcus
>>> (OOo)    wrote:
 Am 08/02/2011 03:00 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:
>
> On Aug 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>
>> Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>>>
>>> On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus
>>> (OOo)       wrote:

 Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
> The ASF does not care what your download page
> looks like as long as you use the CGI scripts to
> ensure that an appropriate mirror site is used.

 Hm, let's see how independent the download thing
 really will be. ;-)
>>>
>>> Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the
>>> download page to look like, without linking it in
>>> from elsewhere. Once that is done then we can look at
>>> making the download.cgi work the way you want it.
>>
>> Good idea. Will do so.
>
> I have a script for downloading the download web source
> from the kenai svn.
>
> If I download the complete AOOo svn tree particularly
> ooo/trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh
>
> You can run that script like so:
>
> $ ../trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh
> ../trunk/tools/dev/web-list.txt .
>
> You then get this (along with all the sub-projects in the
> web-list.txt)
>
> download dave$ ls -1 2.4.3 all_beta.html all_rc.html
> cachedimages common contribute.html download.js
> download2.js download_bouncer.js download_mirrorbrain.js
> exceptions.css globalvars.js index.html languages.js
> md5sums next notes.html other.html print_tables.js
> robots.txt sdk sdk.html source stable.html test
>
> So it's there and it is a matter of wrapping it
> properly.

 I don't know what you mean with "wrapping". It's working
 and with adjustment of CSS (header, footer, graphics, etc.)
 and underlaying mirror structure it should run also for
 Apache.
>
> Should we start by committing the download site as a
> subsite of our incubator project?

 The websites inside the incubator project should be
 developer-oriented. But the download is nearly 100%
 user-related, so I would like to see this content to be
 continued on "www.openoffice.org" and not directly in a
 Apache domain.

>>>
>>> I think the point is this:  Even as we preserve the content
>>> of the OpenOffice.org website, we're not going to be
>>> re-hosting the Mercurial repositories on OO.o.  Everything
>>> that was formerly in Mercurial will need to migrate somewhere
>>> else, either SVN at Apache or to Hg at Apache-Extras.   The
>>> future OO.o website, hosted by Apache will have its source
>>> files checked into SVN at Apache.  We'd have a mechanism to
>>> publish these files, on modification, to the right directory
>>> for the web server.
>>>
>>> We'll need a directory structure in SVN that reflects the
>>> fact that we'll be storing source files for two websites
>>> there.  This is not hard.
>>
>> Right. In the SVN repo we have to make the separation of the 2
>> domains visible.'
>
> Yes that is very true, but there is a problem. We only have the
> one incubator site in the Apache CMS and we need to do some
> experimental conversions. Let's mix in with our Incubator site
> two initial projects - www and download - as subdirectories so we
> can get started with headers and footers and modifying the CMS
> build to handle the OOo site pages from Kenai.

 OK, no problem to migratethe webpages into the incubator project.
 Tehn we can "play" a bit with the content to see how it behaves.

> We can then get started with branding as well.
>
> Later we can

RE: How to handle the downloads?

[Gavin McDonald]

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 12:55 AM
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
> 
> Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method withthe
> fllowing order:
> 
> 1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software (like
> today on "download.openoffice.org").
> 
> 2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on
> "download.openoffice.org/pther.html").
> 
> 3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available mirrors
will help
> (like today on "http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";).
> 
> Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something.

Yep, all possible here at the ASF right now.

See www.apache.org/mirrors for our equiv of step 3.

Gav...

> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
> Am 08/02/2011 04:38 PM, schrieb Donald Whytock:
> > A consideration...I for one have a need to be able to select my
> > mirror.  My office's firewall blocks certain domains and websites,
> > especially those recognized as "hosting" or "file-sharing" sites.  It
> > does not, however, block .edu sites, so when I download an Apache
> > product I select a university mirror.
> >
> > Other users may have similar constraints.  If OOo's download process
> > is going to tie into Apache mirroring, please don't completely
> > eliminate the capacity to select the mirror.
> >
> > Don

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Dave Fisher]

Kay,

On Aug 2, 2011, at 11:43 AM, Kay Schenk wrote:

> 
> 
> On 08/02/2011 09:05 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
>> 
>> On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:06 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 08/02/2011 04:53 PM, schrieb Dave Fisher:
 
 On Aug 2, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
 
> Am 08/02/2011 02:15 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Marcus
>> (OOo)wrote:
>>> Am 08/02/2011 03:00 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:
 
 On Aug 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
 
> Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>> 
>> On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus
>> (OOo)   wrote:
>>> 
>>> Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>> 
>> ...
>> 
 The ASF does not care what your download page
 looks like as long as you use the CGI scripts to
 ensure that an appropriate mirror site is used.
>>> 
>>> Hm, let's see how independent the download thing
>>> really will be. ;-)
>> 
>> Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the
>> download page to look like, without linking it in
>> from elsewhere. Once that is done then we can look at
>> making the download.cgi work the way you want it.
> 
> Good idea. Will do so.
 
 I have a script for downloading the download web source
 from the kenai svn.
 
 If I download the complete AOOo svn tree particularly
 ooo/trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh
 
 You can run that script like so:
 
 $ ../trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh
 ../trunk/tools/dev/web-list.txt .
 
 You then get this (along with all the sub-projects in the
 web-list.txt)
 
 download dave$ ls -1 2.4.3 all_beta.html all_rc.html
 cachedimages common contribute.html download.js
 download2.js download_bouncer.js download_mirrorbrain.js
 exceptions.css globalvars.js index.html languages.js
 md5sums next notes.html other.html print_tables.js
 robots.txt sdk sdk.html source stable.html test
 
 So it's there and it is a matter of wrapping it
 properly.
>>> 
>>> I don't know what you mean with "wrapping". It's working
>>> and with adjustment of CSS (header, footer, graphics, etc.)
>>> and underlaying mirror structure it should run also for
>>> Apache.
 
 Should we start by committing the download site as a
 subsite of our incubator project?
>>> 
>>> The websites inside the incubator project should be
>>> developer-oriented. But the download is nearly 100%
>>> user-related, so I would like to see this content to be
>>> continued on "www.openoffice.org" and not directly in a
>>> Apache domain.
>>> 
>> 
>> I think the point is this:  Even as we preserve the content
>> of the OpenOffice.org website, we're not going to be
>> re-hosting the Mercurial repositories on OO.o.  Everything
>> that was formerly in Mercurial will need to migrate somewhere
>> else, either SVN at Apache or to Hg at Apache-Extras.   The
>> future OO.o website, hosted by Apache will have its source
>> files checked into SVN at Apache.  We'd have a mechanism to
>> publish these files, on modification, to the right directory
>> for the web server.
>> 
>> We'll need a directory structure in SVN that reflects the
>> fact that we'll be storing source files for two websites
>> there.  This is not hard.
> 
> Right. In the SVN repo we have to make the separation of the 2
> domains visible.'
 
 Yes that is very true, but there is a problem. We only have the
 one incubator site in the Apache CMS and we need to do some
 experimental conversions. Let's mix in with our Incubator site
 two initial projects - www and download - as subdirectories so we
 can get started with headers and footers and modifying the CMS
 build to handle the OOo site pages from Kenai.
>>> 
>>> OK, no problem to migratethe webpages into the incubator project.
>>> Tehn we can "play" a bit with the content to see how it behaves.
>>> 
 We can then get started with branding as well.
 
 Later we can change the svn structure to the one that allows
 publishing of multiple sites in Apache. We'll need to discuss the
 publishing of the openoffice domains using the Apache CMS with
 Infrastructure.
>>> 
>>> +1
>> 
>> I have committed the download project to the AOOo svn. No headers and
>> footers yet, but it is now available for "play"
>> 
>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/download/index.html
> 
> good start!

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/www/index.html

Will be there soon. I think I committed more at once than I should. There is a 
lot of deadwood there that should be

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Kay Schenk]

On 08/02/2011 09:05 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:


On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:06 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 04:53 PM, schrieb Dave Fisher:


On Aug 2, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 02:15 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Marcus
(OOo)wrote:

Am 08/02/2011 03:00 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:


On Aug 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus
(OOo)   wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


...


The ASF does not care what your download page
looks like as long as you use the CGI scripts to
ensure that an appropriate mirror site is used.


Hm, let's see how independent the download thing
really will be. ;-)


Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the
download page to look like, without linking it in
from elsewhere. Once that is done then we can look at
making the download.cgi work the way you want it.


Good idea. Will do so.


I have a script for downloading the download web source
from the kenai svn.

If I download the complete AOOo svn tree particularly
ooo/trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh

You can run that script like so:

$ ../trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh
../trunk/tools/dev/web-list.txt .

You then get this (along with all the sub-projects in the
web-list.txt)

download dave$ ls -1 2.4.3 all_beta.html all_rc.html
cachedimages common contribute.html download.js
download2.js download_bouncer.js download_mirrorbrain.js
exceptions.css globalvars.js index.html languages.js
md5sums next notes.html other.html print_tables.js
robots.txt sdk sdk.html source stable.html test

So it's there and it is a matter of wrapping it
properly.


I don't know what you mean with "wrapping". It's working
and with adjustment of CSS (header, footer, graphics, etc.)
and underlaying mirror structure it should run also for
Apache.


Should we start by committing the download site as a
subsite of our incubator project?


The websites inside the incubator project should be
developer-oriented. But the download is nearly 100%
user-related, so I would like to see this content to be
continued on "www.openoffice.org" and not directly in a
Apache domain.



I think the point is this:  Even as we preserve the content
of the OpenOffice.org website, we're not going to be
re-hosting the Mercurial repositories on OO.o.  Everything
that was formerly in Mercurial will need to migrate somewhere
else, either SVN at Apache or to Hg at Apache-Extras.   The
future OO.o website, hosted by Apache will have its source
files checked into SVN at Apache.  We'd have a mechanism to
publish these files, on modification, to the right directory
for the web server.

We'll need a directory structure in SVN that reflects the
fact that we'll be storing source files for two websites
there.  This is not hard.


Right. In the SVN repo we have to make the separation of the 2
domains visible.'


Yes that is very true, but there is a problem. We only have the
one incubator site in the Apache CMS and we need to do some
experimental conversions. Let's mix in with our Incubator site
two initial projects - www and download - as subdirectories so we
can get started with headers and footers and modifying the CMS
build to handle the OOo site pages from Kenai.


OK, no problem to migratethe webpages into the incubator project.
Tehn we can "play" a bit with the content to see how it behaves.


We can then get started with branding as well.

Later we can change the svn structure to the one that allows
publishing of multiple sites in Apache. We'll need to discuss the
publishing of the openoffice domains using the Apache CMS with
Infrastructure.


+1


I have committed the download project to the AOOo svn. No headers and
footers yet, but it is now available for "play"

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/download/index.html


good start!



To get headers and footers a template is needed and the view.pm will
need adjustment.

See
http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/website-local.html#directory_layout

 Regards, Dave



Marcus




At least this separation will be established from my point
of view.

Marcus




We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure
the mirror network can cope with the load, but I'm
sure that will be handled in good time.


Marcus




--

MzK

"If you can keep your head when all others around you
 are losing theirs - maybe you don't fully understand
 the situation!"
-- Unknown

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/02/2011 06:05 PM, schrieb Dave Fisher:


On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:06 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 04:53 PM, schrieb Dave Fisher:


On Aug 2, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 02:15 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Marcus (OOo)wrote:

Am 08/02/2011 03:00 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:


On Aug 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo)   wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


...


The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
used.


Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)


Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to
look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done
then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it.


Good idea. Will do so.


I have a script for downloading the download web source from the kenai
svn.

If I download the complete AOOo svn tree particularly
ooo/trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh

You can run that script like so:

$ ../trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh ../trunk/tools/dev/web-list.txt .

You then get this (along with all the sub-projects in the web-list.txt)

download dave$ ls -1
2.4.3
all_beta.html
all_rc.html
cachedimages
common
contribute.html
download.js
download2.js
download_bouncer.js
download_mirrorbrain.js
exceptions.css
globalvars.js
index.html
languages.js
md5sums
next
notes.html
other.html
print_tables.js
robots.txt
sdk
sdk.html
source
stable.html
test

So it's there and it is a matter of wrapping it properly.


I don't know what you mean with "wrapping". It's working and with adjustment
of CSS (header, footer, graphics, etc.) and underlaying mirror structure it
should run also for Apache.


Should we start by committing the download site as a subsite of our
incubator project?


The websites inside the incubator project should be developer-oriented. But
the download is nearly 100% user-related, so I would like to see this
content to be continued on "www.openoffice.org" and not directly in a Apache
domain.



I think the point is this:  Even as we preserve the content of the
OpenOffice.org website, we're not going to be re-hosting the Mercurial
repositories on OO.o.  Everything that was formerly in Mercurial will
need to migrate somewhere else, either SVN at Apache or to Hg at
Apache-Extras.   The future OO.o website, hosted by Apache will have
its source files checked into SVN at Apache.  We'd have a mechanism to
publish these files, on modification, to the right directory for the
web server.

We'll need a directory structure in SVN that reflects the fact that
we'll be storing source files for two websites there.  This is not
hard.


Right. In the SVN repo we have to make the separation of the 2 domains visible.'


Yes that is very true, but there is a problem. We only have the one incubator 
site in the Apache CMS and we need to do some experimental conversions. Let's 
mix in with our Incubator site two initial projects - www and download - as 
subdirectories so we can get started with headers and footers and modifying the 
CMS build to handle the OOo site pages from Kenai.


OK, no problem to migratethe webpages into the incubator project. Tehn we can 
"play" a bit with the content to see how it behaves.


We can then get started with branding as well.

Later we can change the svn structure to the one that allows publishing of 
multiple sites in Apache. We'll need to discuss the publishing of the 
openoffice domains using the Apache CMS with Infrastructure.


+1


I have committed the download project to the AOOo svn. No headers and footers yet, but it 
is now available for "play"

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/download/index.html

To get headers and footers a template is needed and the view.pm will need 
adjustment.

See 
http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/website-local.html#directory_layout


The nice CSS styling was was done somehow "bekind" the Kenai framework. 
Not that easy to find all that stuff and to re-implement the basics. But 
let's see...


Thanks for your fast commit. :-)

Marcus




At least this separation will be established from my point of view.

Marcus




We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network
can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good
time.


Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Dave Fisher]

On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:06 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

> Am 08/02/2011 04:53 PM, schrieb Dave Fisher:
>> 
>> On Aug 2, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 08/02/2011 02:15 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
 On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Marcus (OOo)   wrote:
> Am 08/02/2011 03:00 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:
>> 
>> On Aug 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
 
 On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
> 
> Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
 
 ...
 
>> The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
>> you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
>> used.
> 
> Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)
 
 Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to
 look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done
 then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it.
>>> 
>>> Good idea. Will do so.
>> 
>> I have a script for downloading the download web source from the kenai
>> svn.
>> 
>> If I download the complete AOOo svn tree particularly
>> ooo/trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh
>> 
>> You can run that script like so:
>> 
>> $ ../trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh ../trunk/tools/dev/web-list.txt .
>> 
>> You then get this (along with all the sub-projects in the web-list.txt)
>> 
>> download dave$ ls -1
>> 2.4.3
>> all_beta.html
>> all_rc.html
>> cachedimages
>> common
>> contribute.html
>> download.js
>> download2.js
>> download_bouncer.js
>> download_mirrorbrain.js
>> exceptions.css
>> globalvars.js
>> index.html
>> languages.js
>> md5sums
>> next
>> notes.html
>> other.html
>> print_tables.js
>> robots.txt
>> sdk
>> sdk.html
>> source
>> stable.html
>> test
>> 
>> So it's there and it is a matter of wrapping it properly.
> 
> I don't know what you mean with "wrapping". It's working and with 
> adjustment
> of CSS (header, footer, graphics, etc.) and underlaying mirror structure 
> it
> should run also for Apache.
>> 
>> Should we start by committing the download site as a subsite of our
>> incubator project?
> 
> The websites inside the incubator project should be developer-oriented. 
> But
> the download is nearly 100% user-related, so I would like to see this
> content to be continued on "www.openoffice.org" and not directly in a 
> Apache
> domain.
> 
 
 I think the point is this:  Even as we preserve the content of the
 OpenOffice.org website, we're not going to be re-hosting the Mercurial
 repositories on OO.o.  Everything that was formerly in Mercurial will
 need to migrate somewhere else, either SVN at Apache or to Hg at
 Apache-Extras.   The future OO.o website, hosted by Apache will have
 its source files checked into SVN at Apache.  We'd have a mechanism to
 publish these files, on modification, to the right directory for the
 web server.
 
 We'll need a directory structure in SVN that reflects the fact that
 we'll be storing source files for two websites there.  This is not
 hard.
>>> 
>>> Right. In the SVN repo we have to make the separation of the 2 domains 
>>> visible.'
>> 
>> Yes that is very true, but there is a problem. We only have the one 
>> incubator site in the Apache CMS and we need to do some experimental 
>> conversions. Let's mix in with our Incubator site two initial projects - www 
>> and download - as subdirectories so we can get started with headers and 
>> footers and modifying the CMS build to handle the OOo site pages from Kenai.
> 
> OK, no problem to migratethe webpages into the incubator project. Tehn we can 
> "play" a bit with the content to see how it behaves.
> 
>> We can then get started with branding as well.
>> 
>> Later we can change the svn structure to the one that allows publishing of 
>> multiple sites in Apache. We'll need to discuss the publishing of the 
>> openoffice domains using the Apache CMS with Infrastructure.
> 
> +1

I have committed the download project to the AOOo svn. No headers and footers 
yet, but it is now available for "play"

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/download/index.html

To get headers and footers a template is needed and the view.pm will need 
adjustment.

See 
http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/website-local.html#directory_layout

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
> At least this separation will be established from my point of view.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
 We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network
 can cope with the load, bu

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/02/2011 04:53 PM, schrieb Dave Fisher:


On Aug 2, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 02:15 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Marcus (OOo)   wrote:

Am 08/02/2011 03:00 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:


On Aug 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


...


The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
used.


Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)


Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to
look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done
then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it.


Good idea. Will do so.


I have a script for downloading the download web source from the kenai
svn.

If I download the complete AOOo svn tree particularly
ooo/trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh

You can run that script like so:

$ ../trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh ../trunk/tools/dev/web-list.txt .

You then get this (along with all the sub-projects in the web-list.txt)

download dave$ ls -1
2.4.3
all_beta.html
all_rc.html
cachedimages
common
contribute.html
download.js
download2.js
download_bouncer.js
download_mirrorbrain.js
exceptions.css
globalvars.js
index.html
languages.js
md5sums
next
notes.html
other.html
print_tables.js
robots.txt
sdk
sdk.html
source
stable.html
test

So it's there and it is a matter of wrapping it properly.


I don't know what you mean with "wrapping". It's working and with adjustment
of CSS (header, footer, graphics, etc.) and underlaying mirror structure it
should run also for Apache.


Should we start by committing the download site as a subsite of our
incubator project?


The websites inside the incubator project should be developer-oriented. But
the download is nearly 100% user-related, so I would like to see this
content to be continued on "www.openoffice.org" and not directly in a Apache
domain.



I think the point is this:  Even as we preserve the content of the
OpenOffice.org website, we're not going to be re-hosting the Mercurial
repositories on OO.o.  Everything that was formerly in Mercurial will
need to migrate somewhere else, either SVN at Apache or to Hg at
Apache-Extras.   The future OO.o website, hosted by Apache will have
its source files checked into SVN at Apache.  We'd have a mechanism to
publish these files, on modification, to the right directory for the
web server.

We'll need a directory structure in SVN that reflects the fact that
we'll be storing source files for two websites there.  This is not
hard.


Right. In the SVN repo we have to make the separation of the 2 domains visible.'


Yes that is very true, but there is a problem. We only have the one incubator 
site in the Apache CMS and we need to do some experimental conversions. Let's 
mix in with our Incubator site two initial projects - www and download - as 
subdirectories so we can get started with headers and footers and modifying the 
CMS build to handle the OOo site pages from Kenai.


OK, no problem to migratethe webpages into the incubator project. Tehn 
we can "play" a bit with the content to see how it behaves.



We can then get started with branding as well.

Later we can change the svn structure to the one that allows publishing of 
multiple sites in Apache. We'll need to discuss the publishing of the 
openoffice domains using the Apache CMS with Infrastructure.


+1

Marcus




At least this separation will be established from my point of view.

Marcus




We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network
can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good
time.


Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method withthe 
fllowing order:


1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software (like 
today on "download.openoffice.org").


2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on 
"download.openoffice.org/pther.html").


3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available mirrors 
will help (like today on 
"http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";).


Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something.

Marcus



Am 08/02/2011 04:38 PM, schrieb Donald Whytock:

A consideration...I for one have a need to be able to select my
mirror.  My office's firewall blocks certain domains and websites,
especially those recognized as "hosting" or "file-sharing" sites.  It
does not, however, block .edu sites, so when I download an Apache
product I select a university mirror.

Other users may have similar constraints.  If OOo's download process
is going to tie into Apache mirroring, please don't completely
eliminate the capacity to select the mirror.

Don

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Dave Fisher]

On Aug 2, 2011, at 7:27 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

> Am 08/02/2011 02:15 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
>>> Am 08/02/2011 03:00 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:
 
 On Aug 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
 
> Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>> 
>> On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>>> 
>>> Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>> 
>> ...
>> 
 The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
 you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
 used.
>>> 
>>> Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)
>> 
>> Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to
>> look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done
>> then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it.
> 
> Good idea. Will do so.
 
 I have a script for downloading the download web source from the kenai
 svn.
 
 If I download the complete AOOo svn tree particularly
 ooo/trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh
 
 You can run that script like so:
 
 $ ../trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh ../trunk/tools/dev/web-list.txt .
 
 You then get this (along with all the sub-projects in the web-list.txt)
 
 download dave$ ls -1
 2.4.3
 all_beta.html
 all_rc.html
 cachedimages
 common
 contribute.html
 download.js
 download2.js
 download_bouncer.js
 download_mirrorbrain.js
 exceptions.css
 globalvars.js
 index.html
 languages.js
 md5sums
 next
 notes.html
 other.html
 print_tables.js
 robots.txt
 sdk
 sdk.html
 source
 stable.html
 test
 
 So it's there and it is a matter of wrapping it properly.
>>> 
>>> I don't know what you mean with "wrapping". It's working and with adjustment
>>> of CSS (header, footer, graphics, etc.) and underlaying mirror structure it
>>> should run also for Apache.
 
 Should we start by committing the download site as a subsite of our
 incubator project?
>>> 
>>> The websites inside the incubator project should be developer-oriented. But
>>> the download is nearly 100% user-related, so I would like to see this
>>> content to be continued on "www.openoffice.org" and not directly in a Apache
>>> domain.
>>> 
>> 
>> I think the point is this:  Even as we preserve the content of the
>> OpenOffice.org website, we're not going to be re-hosting the Mercurial
>> repositories on OO.o.  Everything that was formerly in Mercurial will
>> need to migrate somewhere else, either SVN at Apache or to Hg at
>> Apache-Extras.   The future OO.o website, hosted by Apache will have
>> its source files checked into SVN at Apache.  We'd have a mechanism to
>> publish these files, on modification, to the right directory for the
>> web server.
>> 
>> We'll need a directory structure in SVN that reflects the fact that
>> we'll be storing source files for two websites there.  This is not
>> hard.
> 
> Right. In the SVN repo we have to make the separation of the 2 domains 
> visible.'

Yes that is very true, but there is a problem. We only have the one incubator 
site in the Apache CMS and we need to do some experimental conversions. Let's 
mix in with our Incubator site two initial projects - www and download - as 
subdirectories so we can get started with headers and footers and modifying the 
CMS build to handle the OOo site pages from Kenai.

We can then get started with branding as well.

Later we can change the svn structure to the one that allows publishing of 
multiple sites in Apache. We'll need to discuss the publishing of the 
openoffice domains using the Apache CMS with Infrastructure.

Regards,
Dave


> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
>>> At least this separation will be established from my point of view.
>>> 
>>> Marcus
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network
>> can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good
>> time.
> 
> Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Donald Whytock]

A consideration...I for one have a need to be able to select my
mirror.  My office's firewall blocks certain domains and websites,
especially those recognized as "hosting" or "file-sharing" sites.  It
does not, however, block .edu sites, so when I download an Apache
product I select a university mirror.

Other users may have similar constraints.  If OOo's download process
is going to tie into Apache mirroring, please don't completely
eliminate the capacity to select the mirror.

Don

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/02/2011 02:15 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

Am 08/02/2011 03:00 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:


On Aug 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo) wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


...


The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
used.


Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)


Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to
look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done
then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it.


Good idea. Will do so.


I have a script for downloading the download web source from the kenai
svn.

If I download the complete AOOo svn tree particularly
ooo/trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh

You can run that script like so:

$ ../trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh ../trunk/tools/dev/web-list.txt .

You then get this (along with all the sub-projects in the web-list.txt)

download dave$ ls -1
2.4.3
all_beta.html
all_rc.html
cachedimages
common
contribute.html
download.js
download2.js
download_bouncer.js
download_mirrorbrain.js
exceptions.css
globalvars.js
index.html
languages.js
md5sums
next
notes.html
other.html
print_tables.js
robots.txt
sdk
sdk.html
source
stable.html
test

So it's there and it is a matter of wrapping it properly.


I don't know what you mean with "wrapping". It's working and with adjustment
of CSS (header, footer, graphics, etc.) and underlaying mirror structure it
should run also for Apache.


Should we start by committing the download site as a subsite of our
incubator project?


The websites inside the incubator project should be developer-oriented. But
the download is nearly 100% user-related, so I would like to see this
content to be continued on "www.openoffice.org" and not directly in a Apache
domain.



I think the point is this:  Even as we preserve the content of the
OpenOffice.org website, we're not going to be re-hosting the Mercurial
repositories on OO.o.  Everything that was formerly in Mercurial will
need to migrate somewhere else, either SVN at Apache or to Hg at
Apache-Extras.   The future OO.o website, hosted by Apache will have
its source files checked into SVN at Apache.  We'd have a mechanism to
publish these files, on modification, to the right directory for the
web server.

We'll need a directory structure in SVN that reflects the fact that
we'll be storing source files for two websites there.  This is not
hard.


Right. In the SVN repo we have to make the separation of the 2 domains 
visible.


Marcus




At least this separation will be established from my point of view.

Marcus




We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network
can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good
time.


Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Rob Weir]

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
> Am 08/02/2011 03:00 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>
>> On Aug 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>>
>>> Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

 On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo)   wrote:
>
> Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

 ...

>> The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
>> you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
>> used.
>
> Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)

 Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to
 look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done
 then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it.
>>>
>>> Good idea. Will do so.
>>
>> I have a script for downloading the download web source from the kenai
>> svn.
>>
>> If I download the complete AOOo svn tree particularly
>> ooo/trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh
>>
>> You can run that script like so:
>>
>> $ ../trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh ../trunk/tools/dev/web-list.txt .
>>
>> You then get this (along with all the sub-projects in the web-list.txt)
>>
>> download dave$ ls -1
>> 2.4.3
>> all_beta.html
>> all_rc.html
>> cachedimages
>> common
>> contribute.html
>> download.js
>> download2.js
>> download_bouncer.js
>> download_mirrorbrain.js
>> exceptions.css
>> globalvars.js
>> index.html
>> languages.js
>> md5sums
>> next
>> notes.html
>> other.html
>> print_tables.js
>> robots.txt
>> sdk
>> sdk.html
>> source
>> stable.html
>> test
>>
>> So it's there and it is a matter of wrapping it properly.
>
> I don't know what you mean with "wrapping". It's working and with adjustment
> of CSS (header, footer, graphics, etc.) and underlaying mirror structure it
> should run also for Apache.
>>
>> Should we start by committing the download site as a subsite of our
>> incubator project?
>
> The websites inside the incubator project should be developer-oriented. But
> the download is nearly 100% user-related, so I would like to see this
> content to be continued on "www.openoffice.org" and not directly in a Apache
> domain.
>

I think the point is this:  Even as we preserve the content of the
OpenOffice.org website, we're not going to be re-hosting the Mercurial
repositories on OO.o.  Everything that was formerly in Mercurial will
need to migrate somewhere else, either SVN at Apache or to Hg at
Apache-Extras.   The future OO.o website, hosted by Apache will have
its source files checked into SVN at Apache.  We'd have a mechanism to
publish these files, on modification, to the right directory for the
web server.

We'll need a directory structure in SVN that reflects the fact that
we'll be storing source files for two websites there.  This is not
hard.

> At least this separation will be established from my point of view.
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
 We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network
 can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good
 time.
>>>
>>> Marcus
>

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/02/2011 03:00 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:


On Aug 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:


Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo)   wrote:

Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


...


The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
used.


Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)


Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to
look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done
then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it.


Good idea. Will do so.


I have a script for downloading the download web source from the kenai svn.

If I download the complete AOOo svn tree particularly 
ooo/trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh

You can run that script like so:

$ ../trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh ../trunk/tools/dev/web-list.txt .

You then get this (along with all the sub-projects in the web-list.txt)

download dave$ ls -1
2.4.3
all_beta.html
all_rc.html
cachedimages
common
contribute.html
download.js
download2.js
download_bouncer.js
download_mirrorbrain.js
exceptions.css
globalvars.js
index.html
languages.js
md5sums
next
notes.html
other.html
print_tables.js
robots.txt
sdk
sdk.html
source
stable.html
test

So it's there and it is a matter of wrapping it properly.


I don't know what you mean with "wrapping". It's working and with 
adjustment of CSS (header, footer, graphics, etc.) and underlaying 
mirror structure it should run also for Apache.


Should we start by committing the download site as a subsite of our incubator 
project?


The websites inside the incubator project should be developer-oriented. 
But the download is nearly 100% user-related, so I would like to see 
this content to be continued on "www.openoffice.org" and not directly in 
a Apache domain.


At least this separation will be established from my point of view.

Marcus




We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network
can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good
time.


Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Dave Fisher]

On Aug 1, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

> Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>> On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
>>> Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>> 
>> ...
>> 
 The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
 you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
 used.
>>> 
>>> Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)
>> 
>> Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to
>> look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done
>> then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it.
> 
> Good idea. Will do so.

I have a script for downloading the download web source from the kenai svn.

If I download the complete AOOo svn tree particularly 
ooo/trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh

You can run that script like so:

$ ../trunk/tools/dev/fetch-all-web.sh ../trunk/tools/dev/web-list.txt .

You then get this (along with all the sub-projects in the web-list.txt)

download dave$ ls -1
2.4.3
all_beta.html
all_rc.html
cachedimages
common
contribute.html
download.js
download2.js
download_bouncer.js
download_mirrorbrain.js
exceptions.css
globalvars.js
index.html
languages.js
md5sums
next
notes.html
other.html
print_tables.js
robots.txt
sdk
sdk.html
source
stable.html
test

So it's there and it is a matter of wrapping it properly.

Should we start by committing the download site as a subsite of our incubator 
project?

Regards,
Dave

> 
>> We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network
>> can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good
>> time.
> 
> Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Andy Brown]

Gavin McDonald wrote:




-Original Message-
From: Andy Brown [mailto:a...@the-martin-byrd.net]

I have to agree with Marcus on this.  It has to be simple.


Example, see this page:

http://forrest.apache.org/mirrors.cgi

Now , forget all the developer oriented content on that page and focus on
the
part that says:

Current official release (closest mirror site selected automatically)

Now, it has chosen the closest mirror already, the link to the file is
there, they click on it
and download it - what is the difficulty here, please explain?


I see how this would be usable for users.  Very good.


Perhaps the download link needs to be a big shiny blue/green graphic Icon
with the words 'Download now!'
on it to make more user intuitive, no problem there, you can do that.


A button would help but not required, something that is a little more 
obvious than a link as it is easily missed.



On the page is an 'Other' mirrors section where one can optionally choose
another mirror if
the chosen one is having issues for some reason (it should not, as all
mirrors are checked hourly
for their usefulness and removed from being  a automatically chosen mirror
if there are issues.)
(this too is optional)

So, effectively, you can remove everything and replace it with a pretty
Download Icon, can't get
any simpler than that. In other words, it can work in exactly the same way
the current OpenOffice.org
program downloads now.

Oh, actually  just checked, the nice and easy 'Download now!' button on
openoffice.org redirects to
http://planetmirror.com/pub/openoffice/  (for me)

oops, now what is a user to do? My program didn't download, where is it,
what's the filename I'm looking for,
what does stable mean, hmm, ooh theres the word developer, perhaps Im in the
wrong place, HELP!


That is a problem that has showed up lately and has had that very 
reaction.

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


...


The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
used.


Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)


Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to
look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done
then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it.


Good idea. Will do so.


We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network
can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good
time.


Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/02/2011 01:04 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald:




-Original Message-
From: Andy Brown [mailto:a...@the-martin-byrd.net]
Sent: Tuesday, 2 August 2011 8:48 AM
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?

Marcus (OOo) wrote:

Am 08/01/2011 09:25 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

On 1 August 2011 18:20, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download
numbers compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly
to a mirror or a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose
themselves from where to get the software best.


I wouldn't make any assumptions about the current mirror
infrastructure. What you write above does not reflect how things work
here. The ASF is a pretty large collection of projects with some very
large numbers behind it.


I've looked at this both pages:

http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi
http://httpd.apache.org/download.cgi

When comparing it with the one from the current OOo project you should
be able to see big differences:

- too many links
- too much data on one page
- too much information to read to get an overview
- too less clear structure

Please keep in mind that we have to deal with end-users. Maybe there
are a lot of power-users but even they prefer a simple and straight
solution. ;-)



I have to agree with Marcus on this.  It has to be simple.


Example, see this page:

http://forrest.apache.org/mirrors.cgi

Now , forget all the developer oriented content on that page and focus on
the part that says:

Current official release (closest mirror site selected automatically)

Now, it has chosen the closest mirror already, the link to the file is
there, they click on it
and download it - what is the difficulty here, please explain?


Why to invent the wheel again? Why not just use the website as it is and 
make changes to the underlaying infrastructure if necessary, so that 
it's working also inside Apache?



Perhaps the download link needs to be a big shiny blue/green graphic Icon
with the words 'Download now!'
on it to make more user intuitive, no problem there, you can do that.


Of course, a simple thing.


On the page is an 'Other' mirrors section where one can optionally choose
another mirror if
the chosen one is having issues for some reason (it should not, as all
mirrors are checked hourly
for their usefulness and removed from being  a automatically chosen mirror
if there are issues.)
(this too is optional)


OK, thats good. We have a link to an alternative webpage to download. 
Still without to present specific mirrors.



So, effectively, you can remove everything and replace it with a pretty
Download Icon, can't get
any simpler than that. In other words, it can work in exactly the same way
the current OpenOffice.org
program downloads now.

Oh, actually  just checked, the nice and easy 'Download now!' button on
openoffice.org redirects to
http://planetmirror.com/pub/openoffice/  (for me)

oops, now what is a user to do? My program didn't download, where is it,
what's the filename I'm looking for,
what does stable mean, hmm, ooh theres the word developer, perhaps Im in the
wrong place, HELP!


OK, forget this mirror. It doesn't work since months and was already 
deleted from the network. However, it comes back from time to time. :-(


Try again.

Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/02/2011 12:49 AM, schrieb Rob Weir:

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


On 1 August 2011 22:51, Marcus (OOo)wrote:


Am 08/01/2011 09:25 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


On 1 August 2011 18:20, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:


AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download numbers
compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly to a
mirror
or
a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose themselves from
where
to
get the software best.


I wouldn't make any assumptions about the current mirror
infrastructure. What you write above does not reflect how things work
here. The ASF is a pretty large collection of projects with some very
large numbers behind it.


I've looked at this both pages:

http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi
http://httpd.apache.org/download.cgi

When comparing it with the one from the current OOo project you should be
able to see big differences:

- too many links
- too much data on one page
- too much information to read to get an overview
- too less clear structure


So what do you want? A single download link that automatically selects
the most appropriate mirror for the user?


Yes. Everything else is not end-user compatible and needs to much effort to
explain.


That's easily done. I think you might be confusing the way that some
projects choose to implement the download with how OO.o would be
expected to implement the download.

The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
used.


Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)



Well, I think it is obvious that it is better to have a a single
mirror system with the ability to customize the UI for each project
than to have each project seek out a different mirroring network.


Of course, I don't want to force the OOo mirror system now into the 
Apache project. It's how to make the best use of it.


> In

other words, let's try to solve this with a JavaScript "hammer" if we
can, and save the VM "hammer" for if we really need it.


AFAIK we have tried it with JS but have decided to use Bouncer (from 
OSUOSL) and due to problems migrated then to MirrorBrain. MirrorBrain 
isn't and doesn't need a VM "hammer". Currently it's running on a SuSE 
system with 512 MB RAM.


Marcus

RE: How to handle the downloads?

[Gavin McDonald]

> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Brown [mailto:a...@the-martin-byrd.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, 2 August 2011 8:48 AM
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads?
> 
> Marcus (OOo) wrote:
> > Am 08/01/2011 09:25 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
> >> On 1 August 2011 18:20, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
> >>> AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download
> >>> numbers compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly
> >>> to a mirror or a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose
> >>> themselves from where to get the software best.
> >>
> >> I wouldn't make any assumptions about the current mirror
> >> infrastructure. What you write above does not reflect how things work
> >> here. The ASF is a pretty large collection of projects with some very
> >> large numbers behind it.
> >
> > I've looked at this both pages:
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi
> > http://httpd.apache.org/download.cgi
> >
> > When comparing it with the one from the current OOo project you should
> > be able to see big differences:
> >
> > - too many links
> > - too much data on one page
> > - too much information to read to get an overview
> > - too less clear structure
> >
> > Please keep in mind that we have to deal with end-users. Maybe there
> > are a lot of power-users but even they prefer a simple and straight
> > solution. ;-)
> >
> 
> I have to agree with Marcus on this.  It has to be simple.

Example, see this page:

http://forrest.apache.org/mirrors.cgi

Now , forget all the developer oriented content on that page and focus on
the 
part that says:

Current official release (closest mirror site selected automatically)

Now, it has chosen the closest mirror already, the link to the file is
there, they click on it
and download it - what is the difficulty here, please explain?

Perhaps the download link needs to be a big shiny blue/green graphic Icon
with the words 'Download now!'
on it to make more user intuitive, no problem there, you can do that.

On the page is an 'Other' mirrors section where one can optionally choose
another mirror if
the chosen one is having issues for some reason (it should not, as all
mirrors are checked hourly
for their usefulness and removed from being  a automatically chosen mirror
if there are issues.)
(this too is optional)

So, effectively, you can remove everything and replace it with a pretty
Download Icon, can't get
any simpler than that. In other words, it can work in exactly the same way
the current OpenOffice.org
program downloads now.

Oh, actually  just checked, the nice and easy 'Download now!' button on
openoffice.org redirects to
http://planetmirror.com/pub/openoffice/  (for me)

oops, now what is a user to do? My program didn't download, where is it,
what's the filename I'm looking for,
what does stable mean, hmm, ooh theres the word developer, perhaps Im in the
wrong place, HELP!

Gav...

> 
> Andy

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Ross Gardler]

On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
> Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

...

>> The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
>> you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
>> used.
>
> Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)

Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to
look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done
then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it.

We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network
can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good
time.

Ross

-- 
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Rob Weir]

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
> Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>>
>> On 1 August 2011 22:51, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
>>>
>>> Am 08/01/2011 09:25 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

 On 1 August 2011 18:20, Marcus (OOo)    wrote:
>
> AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download numbers
> compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly to a
> mirror
> or
> a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose themselves from
> where
> to
> get the software best.

 I wouldn't make any assumptions about the current mirror
 infrastructure. What you write above does not reflect how things work
 here. The ASF is a pretty large collection of projects with some very
 large numbers behind it.
>>>
>>> I've looked at this both pages:
>>>
>>> http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi
>>> http://httpd.apache.org/download.cgi
>>>
>>> When comparing it with the one from the current OOo project you should be
>>> able to see big differences:
>>>
>>> - too many links
>>> - too much data on one page
>>> - too much information to read to get an overview
>>> - too less clear structure
>>
>> So what do you want? A single download link that automatically selects
>> the most appropriate mirror for the user?
>
> Yes. Everything else is not end-user compatible and needs to much effort to
> explain.
>
>> That's easily done. I think you might be confusing the way that some
>> projects choose to implement the download with how OO.o would be
>> expected to implement the download.
>>
>> The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
>> you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
>> used.
>
> Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)
>

Well, I think it is obvious that it is better to have a a single
mirror system with the ability to customize the UI for each project
than to have each project seek out a different mirroring network.  In
other words, let's try to solve this with a JavaScript "hammer" if we
can, and save the VM "hammer" for if we really need it.

> Marcus
>
>

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Andy Brown]

Marcus (OOo) wrote:

Am 08/01/2011 09:25 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

On 1 August 2011 18:20, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download numbers
compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly to a
mirror or
a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose themselves from
where to
get the software best.


I wouldn't make any assumptions about the current mirror
infrastructure. What you write above does not reflect how things work
here. The ASF is a pretty large collection of projects with some very
large numbers behind it.


I've looked at this both pages:

http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi
http://httpd.apache.org/download.cgi

When comparing it with the one from the current OOo project you should
be able to see big differences:

- too many links
- too much data on one page
- too much information to read to get an overview
- too less clear structure

Please keep in mind that we have to deal with end-users. Maybe there are
a lot of power-users but even they prefer a simple and straight
solution. ;-)



I have to agree with Marcus on this.  It has to be simple.

Andy

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

On 1 August 2011 22:51, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

Am 08/01/2011 09:25 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:


On 1 August 2011 18:20, Marcus (OOo)wrote:


AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download numbers
compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly to a mirror
or
a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose themselves from where
to
get the software best.


I wouldn't make any assumptions about the current mirror
infrastructure. What you write above does not reflect how things work
here. The ASF is a pretty large collection of projects with some very
large numbers behind it.


I've looked at this both pages:

http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi
http://httpd.apache.org/download.cgi

When comparing it with the one from the current OOo project you should be
able to see big differences:

- too many links
- too much data on one page
- too much information to read to get an overview
- too less clear structure


So what do you want? A single download link that automatically selects
the most appropriate mirror for the user?


Yes. Everything else is not end-user compatible and needs to much effort 
to explain.



That's easily done. I think you might be confusing the way that some
projects choose to implement the download with how OO.o would be
expected to implement the download.

The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
used.


Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-)

Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/02/2011 12:03 AM, schrieb Shane Curcuru:


On 8/1/2011 5:51 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

Am 08/01/2011 09:25 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

On 1 August 2011 18:20, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download numbers
compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly to a
mirror or
a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose themselves from
where to
get the software best.


I wouldn't make any assumptions about the current mirror
infrastructure. What you write above does not reflect how things work
here. The ASF is a pretty large collection of projects with some very
large numbers behind it.


I've looked at this both pages:

http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi
http://httpd.apache.org/download.cgi

When comparing it with the one from the current OOo project you should
be able to see big differences:

- too many links
- too much data on one page
- too much information to read to get an overview
- too less clear structure


There are two, mostly orthogonal issues to discuss here - which is why
it's doubly important to better document what 1) features we think OOo
needs on it's download pages, and 2) what software & capacity is being
used currently for OOo downloads on the Oracle infra.

- Basic presentation of the download page. In most Apache projects, this
can be controlled by the project. Thus we could better control the
display of the physical download.cgi page itself within the Apache OOo
project, to better explain to users what they want.


That's good.


- Implementation of mirror choosing on the download page. This is for
someone from infra to discuss.


But the project should have the control over it. I don't want to bother 
the infra staff for every change that has to be done. ;-)



Separately is how mirrors are managed and rsync'd, but I'm sure once we
figure out the above parts there can be a plan for migrating (or
adopting) the syncing to the mirrors.


Sure, when the technical questions are answered, source and destination 
for rsync are set, too.


Marcus




Please keep in mind that we have to deal with end-users. Maybe there are
a lot of power-users but even they prefer a simple and straight
solution. ;-)

Marcus




Does anyone here have the precise requirements and implementation
details of the existing mirror network? It would be really useful to
document that and take it to the infra team who can then evaluate what
changes, if any, need to be made to the existing system.

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Ross Gardler]

On 1 August 2011 22:51, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
> Am 08/01/2011 09:25 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:
>>
>> On 1 August 2011 18:20, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
>>>
>>> AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download numbers
>>> compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly to a mirror
>>> or
>>> a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose themselves from where
>>> to
>>> get the software best.
>>
>> I wouldn't make any assumptions about the current mirror
>> infrastructure. What you write above does not reflect how things work
>> here. The ASF is a pretty large collection of projects with some very
>> large numbers behind it.
>
> I've looked at this both pages:
>
> http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi
> http://httpd.apache.org/download.cgi
>
> When comparing it with the one from the current OOo project you should be
> able to see big differences:
>
> - too many links
> - too much data on one page
> - too much information to read to get an overview
> - too less clear structure

So what do you want? A single download link that automatically selects
the most appropriate mirror for the user?

That's easily done. I think you might be confusing the way that some
projects choose to implement the download with how OO.o would be
expected to implement the download.

The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as
you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is
used.

Ross

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/01/2011 09:14 PM, schrieb Dave Fisher:


On Aug 1, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Rob Weir wrote:


On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

Hi,

AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download numbers
compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly to a mirror or
a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose themselves from where to
get the software best.

For OpenOffice this doesn't work. With download numbers up to 500,000 per
month we need a more flexible and scaleable solution. I don't know if or how
fast we could reach these numbers again. But even with the half it would be
a lot to handle. Furthermore we have to present a) a simple way to download
for the end-users that is b) *not* stressing a few/specific mirror servers
to their maximum.

The current solution you can see on "download.openoffice.org" works very
well. However, the infrastructure behind this is still hosted on Oracle
server. So, we have to transfer this, too.

I don't speak about domain, website and its content. That's already on the
list for migration. It's about the download redirector behind the colored
webpages (http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/). Here MirrorBrain
is used (www.mirrorbrain.org) to recognize from where the download request
comes and which mirror server to choose that is near to the user.

I would like to continue this service and IMHO it shouldn't be that
difficult when I look at the requirements:
http://www.mirrorbrain.org/requirements/



The obvious question would be:  Is there a problem with using the 262
mirrors that Apache already uses?


Maybe, if we are hosting the current legacy of non AL2.0 licensed distributions 
it will be an issue.



http://www.apache.org/mirrors/

Do you think that they cannot handle the load?

 From what I'm reading, the Apache system does not just give a static
list of mirrors to the user.  There is some logic to ensure that the
same server is not at the top all the time.  And there are mechanisms,
like closer.cgi to suggest a reasonable mirror for a given user, e.g.:

http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi

I wonder whether it would make sense to try the Apache mirroring
infrastructure until we're convinced that it won't work?


The python for the Apache Mirrors is here:

http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site/trunk/content/dyn/mirrors/mirrors.cgi

Mirror list is here:
http://www.apache.org/mirrors/mirrors.list

Someone mentioned that there is a lot of overlap with OOo mirrors.


IMHO the problem is not the number or structure of the mirror network. 
Of course we can use the mirror server for Apache. But the "how to use 
them" is important.


Marcus




When running in a VM it should be a small part within the OpenOffice project
to maintain. In the past at Oracle we just had to add/modify/delete mirrors
and very few times to restart the VM in case of problems.

Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/01/2011 09:07 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

Hi,

AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download numbers
compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly to a mirror or
a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose themselves from where to
get the software best.

For OpenOffice this doesn't work. With download numbers up to 500,000 per
month we need a more flexible and scaleable solution. I don't know if or how
fast we could reach these numbers again. But even with the half it would be
a lot to handle. Furthermore we have to present a) a simple way to download
for the end-users that is b) *not* stressing a few/specific mirror servers
to their maximum.

The current solution you can see on "download.openoffice.org" works very
well. However, the infrastructure behind this is still hosted on Oracle
server. So, we have to transfer this, too.

I don't speak about domain, website and its content. That's already on the
list for migration. It's about the download redirector behind the colored
webpages (http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/). Here MirrorBrain
is used (www.mirrorbrain.org) to recognize from where the download request
comes and which mirror server to choose that is near to the user.

I would like to continue this service and IMHO it shouldn't be that
difficult when I look at the requirements:
http://www.mirrorbrain.org/requirements/


The obvious question would be:  Is there a problem with using the 262
mirrors that Apache already uses?

http://www.apache.org/mirrors/

Do you think that they cannot handle the load?


That's not the question. Otherwise I could present this list:
http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors
;-)

No, the real question is not the load but how to do the load balancing 
and how to present the best download link to the user.



 From what I'm reading, the Apache system does not just give a static
list of mirrors to the user.  There is some logic to ensure that the
same server is not at the top all the time.  And there are mechanisms,
like closer.cgi to suggest a reasonable mirror for a given user, e.g.:

http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi


Maybe it's a pre-chosen thing to present a download link. But still it's 
a list of servers the user has to choose on there own. And only after 
they have seen that only the first link is the pre-chosen one and the 
others are nice to know. ;-) For me it's not clear enough.



I wonder whether it would make sense to try the Apache mirroring
infrastructure until we're convinced that it won't work?


Depends on what you define here with "working". Technically it will 
work. Maybe Apache will ? a bit because of the suddenly increased load 
(when we switch the download method from one to the other day). But the 
user hasn't a good solution when searching for a download. See my answer 
to Ross.



When running in a VM it should be a small part within the OpenOffice project
to maintain. In the past at Oracle we just had to add/modify/delete mirrors
and very few times to restart the VM in case of problems.

Marcus


Marcus

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Shane Curcuru]

On 8/1/2011 5:51 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

Am 08/01/2011 09:25 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

On 1 August 2011 18:20, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download numbers
compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly to a
mirror or
a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose themselves from
where to
get the software best.


I wouldn't make any assumptions about the current mirror
infrastructure. What you write above does not reflect how things work
here. The ASF is a pretty large collection of projects with some very
large numbers behind it.


I've looked at this both pages:

http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi
http://httpd.apache.org/download.cgi

When comparing it with the one from the current OOo project you should
be able to see big differences:

- too many links
- too much data on one page
- too much information to read to get an overview
- too less clear structure


There are two, mostly orthogonal issues to discuss here - which is why 
it's doubly important to better document what 1) features we think OOo 
needs on it's download pages, and 2) what software & capacity is being 
used currently for OOo downloads on the Oracle infra.


- Basic presentation of the download page.  In most Apache projects, 
this can be controlled by the project.  Thus we could better control the 
display of the physical download.cgi page itself within the Apache OOo 
project, to better explain to users what they want.


- Implementation of mirror choosing on the download page.  This is for 
someone from infra to discuss.


Separately is how mirrors are managed and rsync'd, but I'm sure once we 
figure out the above parts there can be a plan for migrating (or 
adopting) the syncing to the mirrors.


- Shane



Please keep in mind that we have to deal with end-users. Maybe there are
a lot of power-users but even they prefer a simple and straight
solution. ;-)

Marcus




Does anyone here have the precise requirements and implementation
details of the existing mirror network? It would be really useful to
document that and take it to the infra team who can then evaluate what
changes, if any, need to be made to the existing system.

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 08/01/2011 09:25 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler:

On 1 August 2011 18:20, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download numbers
compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly to a mirror or
a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose themselves from where to
get the software best.


I wouldn't make any assumptions about the current mirror
infrastructure. What you write above does not reflect how things work
here. The ASF is a pretty large collection of projects with some very
large numbers behind it.


I've looked at this both pages:

http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi
http://httpd.apache.org/download.cgi

When comparing it with the one from the current OOo project you should 
be able to see big differences:


- too many links
- too much data on one page
- too much information to read to get an overview
- too less clear structure

Please keep in mind that we have to deal with end-users. Maybe there are 
a lot of power-users but even they prefer a simple and straight 
solution. ;-)


Marcus




Does anyone here have the precise requirements and implementation
details of the existing mirror network? It would be really useful to
document that and take it to the infra team who can then evaluate what
changes, if any, need to be made to the existing system.

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Ross Gardler]

On 1 August 2011 18:20, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
> AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download numbers
> compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly to a mirror or
> a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose themselves from where to
> get the software best.

I wouldn't make any assumptions about the current mirror
infrastructure. What you write above does not reflect how things work
here. The ASF is a pretty large collection of projects with some very
large numbers behind it.

Does anyone here have the precise requirements and implementation
details of the existing mirror network? It would be really useful to
document that and take it to the infra team who can then evaluate what
changes, if any, need to be made to the existing system.

Ross

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Dave Fisher]

On Aug 1, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download numbers
>> compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly to a mirror or
>> a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose themselves from where to
>> get the software best.
>> 
>> For OpenOffice this doesn't work. With download numbers up to 500,000 per
>> month we need a more flexible and scaleable solution. I don't know if or how
>> fast we could reach these numbers again. But even with the half it would be
>> a lot to handle. Furthermore we have to present a) a simple way to download
>> for the end-users that is b) *not* stressing a few/specific mirror servers
>> to their maximum.
>> 
>> The current solution you can see on "download.openoffice.org" works very
>> well. However, the infrastructure behind this is still hosted on Oracle
>> server. So, we have to transfer this, too.
>> 
>> I don't speak about domain, website and its content. That's already on the
>> list for migration. It's about the download redirector behind the colored
>> webpages (http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/). Here MirrorBrain
>> is used (www.mirrorbrain.org) to recognize from where the download request
>> comes and which mirror server to choose that is near to the user.
>> 
>> I would like to continue this service and IMHO it shouldn't be that
>> difficult when I look at the requirements:
>> http://www.mirrorbrain.org/requirements/
>> 
> 
> The obvious question would be:  Is there a problem with using the 262
> mirrors that Apache already uses?

Maybe, if we are hosting the current legacy of non AL2.0 licensed distributions 
it will be an issue.

> 
> http://www.apache.org/mirrors/
> 
> Do you think that they cannot handle the load?
> 
> From what I'm reading, the Apache system does not just give a static
> list of mirrors to the user.  There is some logic to ensure that the
> same server is not at the top all the time.  And there are mechanisms,
> like closer.cgi to suggest a reasonable mirror for a given user, e.g.:
> 
> http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi
> 
> I wonder whether it would make sense to try the Apache mirroring
> infrastructure until we're convinced that it won't work?

The python for the Apache Mirrors is here:

http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site/trunk/content/dyn/mirrors/mirrors.cgi

Mirror list is here:
http://www.apache.org/mirrors/mirrors.list

Someone mentioned that there is a lot of overlap with OOo mirrors.

Regards,
Dave

> 
>> When running in a VM it should be a small part within the OpenOffice project
>> to maintain. In the past at Oracle we just had to add/modify/delete mirrors
>> and very few times to restart the VM in case of problems.
>> 
>> Marcus
>> 

Re: How to handle the downloads?

[Rob Weir]

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> AFAIK the current projects at Apache doesn't have high download numbers
> compared with OOo. So, a download request can point directly to a mirror or
> a mirror list is shown and the users have to choose themselves from where to
> get the software best.
>
> For OpenOffice this doesn't work. With download numbers up to 500,000 per
> month we need a more flexible and scaleable solution. I don't know if or how
> fast we could reach these numbers again. But even with the half it would be
> a lot to handle. Furthermore we have to present a) a simple way to download
> for the end-users that is b) *not* stressing a few/specific mirror servers
> to their maximum.
>
> The current solution you can see on "download.openoffice.org" works very
> well. However, the infrastructure behind this is still hosted on Oracle
> server. So, we have to transfer this, too.
>
> I don't speak about domain, website and its content. That's already on the
> list for migration. It's about the download redirector behind the colored
> webpages (http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/). Here MirrorBrain
> is used (www.mirrorbrain.org) to recognize from where the download request
> comes and which mirror server to choose that is near to the user.
>
> I would like to continue this service and IMHO it shouldn't be that
> difficult when I look at the requirements:
> http://www.mirrorbrain.org/requirements/
>

The obvious question would be:  Is there a problem with using the 262
mirrors that Apache already uses?

http://www.apache.org/mirrors/

Do you think that they cannot handle the load?

>From what I'm reading, the Apache system does not just give a static
list of mirrors to the user.  There is some logic to ensure that the
same server is not at the top all the time.  And there are mechanisms,
like closer.cgi to suggest a reasonable mirror for a given user, e.g.:

http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi

I wonder whether it would make sense to try the Apache mirroring
infrastructure until we're convinced that it won't work?

> When running in a VM it should be a small part within the OpenOffice project
> to maintain. In the past at Oracle we just had to add/modify/delete mirrors
> and very few times to restart the VM in case of problems.
>
> Marcus
>