Re: [opensuse] ThinkPad X61 prof
Andreas Jaeger wrote: Teruel de Campo MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2008-01-29 at 12:03 +0100, Andreas Jaeger wrote: I own an Thinkpad X61s with Intel Graficscard. The 3945 wireless works with latest 10.3 kernel update now ok. Andreas, what module are you using now? I'm running now the current STABLE kernel with the iwl3945 driver. The latest 10.3 kernel has an update to that driver with many bugfixes, Andreas How do you get the iwl3945 driver? I have the vanilla 10.3 system with complete updates (according to opensuse-updater), and I have the ipw3945 driver. And last time I looked (a couple of weeks ago), Intel said the ipw3945 was the stable version, and iwlwifi (no iwl3945 mentioned) was not yet recommended. ...Well, I just looked at the Intel site again, and now they say iwlwifi 1.0.0 has been production since 8/13/2007. So why isn't it in suse now? Or doesn't production mean stable? John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] 10.3 and powermanagement
Will Stephenson wrote: On Wednesday 23 January 2008 06:11:01 John E. Perry wrote: Thanks, Hans Petter. I hope the KDE people get their power management act together soon, even though the gnome power manager appears to work fine under KDE, and I don't really see a need to go back. I can't find the root of this thread, but did you report a bug to us (the KDE people at Novell) Since Danny, the author of KPowerSave, works here the lines of communication are pretty short and hence bugs are easy to fix. OK, Will, Since I don't know how often you monitor the list, I'm sending a copy to you personally to be sure it gets there quickly. The thread started back in September or October when I commented (I believe during a different thread) that my kpowersave showed strange values for time and % remaining -- things like 17 hours remaining, or a few seconds, with the icon showing nearly full. After some list discussion about configuration, and whether the battery manager was sending the correct information to kpowersavemanager, and my resistance to confronting hp about the problem (xp shows reasonable values), Hans Petter suggested I try gnome-power-manager to see what it said. gpm works fine, gives reasonable values (like xp), and shows a nice history of battery voltage and such. I don't know what I could say in a bug report, though, I guess I could resurrect kpowersave and write down some values, but I have no idea how to get to any original values from the battery controller. Does kpowermanager keep a log as gnome pm apparently does? How might I get to either or both? jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] 10.3 and powermanagement
Hans Petter Jansson wrote: On Sun, 2008-01-13 at 18:17 -0600, John E. Perry wrote: Hans Petter Jansson wrote: ...have you tried the GNOME Power Manager? OK, I tried it -- it works great! It says both of my batteries are about dead -- either damaged or very old (in fact, 1-1/2 year old), giving just 47% and 44% of new capacity (now, how do they know that??). This (the present capacity) they estimate at about 1-3/4 hours, which seems to be about right. But then, I don't remember these batteries ever giving much more than this, though I haven't really paid close attention. It's a bit disconcerting that there are practically no control options compared to the KDE power manager; but everything I really need is there. I like the 8 graphs of various trend files it can display. I like its showing me the readout of the battery controller information. I didn't see any evidence of statistical evaluation; the readout says the batteries were designed for 88.8Wh capacity, and the one presently in the machine has only 44.8Wh capacity remaining. It's also nice that when I killed the KDE power manager and started the gnome power manager, KDE pm stayed dead, and Gnome pm kept coming back even through hibernation and reboots. Thanks, Hans Petter. I hope the KDE people get their power management act together soon, even though the gnome power manager appears to work fine under KDE, and I don't really see a need to go back. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] 10.3 and powermanagement
Hans Petter Jansson wrote: On Sat, 2008-01-12 at 16:37 -0500, Aaron Kulkis wrote: Have you asked them when they're going to give real support for basic linux functionality Well, Aaron, I recall that hp was one of the lesser good guys, along with IBM and Novell, resisting the SCO attempt to kill linux. I'm not anxious to irritate even the bottom-feeders in India who support the systems. I figure that if enough of us let them know (as I did) that Windows is not enough for us, they'll eventually get the message. Yeah, I know lots of people want to get in their faces, but I'm a member of Nature Conservancy, and I admire tremendously their scientific, non-confrontational, coax them quietly into cooperation approach, which has done more to advance the preservation of our environment than all the screamers and moaners (Sierra Club, PETA, FoE, etc.) put together. I guess this is a bit offtopic, but have you tried the GNOME Power Manager? It creates dynamic battery profiles through statistical sampling. Seems to work pretty well. Pretty graphs too :) I didn't know about it. I tried gnome early on, but it simply was nowhere near KDE's level of function and ease of use, so I haven't paid a lot of attention to it since then. As I understand it, much of gnome works under KDE, too, so I could certainly give it a try. Do you know offhand if it works well under KDE? jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] 10.3 and powermanagement
Aaron Kulkis wrote: John E. Perry wrote: Thanks, Frank. This seems to have solved my problem. ...well, one thing has nagged me since I put 10.1 on this thing last year, but it's never been enough of an issue to prod me into asking about it. The battery indication is completely nonsensical. ... Actually, it just occurred to me to ask on hp's support forum. I'd still like to hear from you, though. What did HP say? Sorry, I've been on a trip for the last two months, and my ISP doesn't allow me access to smtp from outside the Cox network. Webmail sucks too bad for me to deal with it unless I absolutely have to. HP told me to wipe my suse partition and restore the thing to the original XP configuration, then they'd think about helping me. While I was gone, other problems cropped up, so now I guess I have to do it so I can find out whether I need to send the thing back for repair. At least they're talking about extending the warranty period for my series of machines. I never heard any more from Frank. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Suspicious Update
Bryen wrote: On Mon, 2007-11-05 at 18:38 +0100, Stanislav Visnovsky wrote: Dňa Tuesday 23 October 2007 15:31:16 Michael Skiba ste napísal: Am Dienstag, 23. Oktober 2007 15:25:33 schrieb Kenneth Schneider: As I have then same concerns here you go. On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 09:30 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote: zypper lu Repository: | Name | Version | Category | Status --+--+-+--+--- openSUSE-10.3-Updates | openmotif22-libs | 4540-0 | optional | Needed uhm, you're aware of the fact that this is an update for the openmotif libs, right? I have a similar bobble on my new 10.3 installation. In the Available Updates I get: Name..Summary... openmotif22-libs openmotif22-libs: 64bit package added for ...Type..New Version compatibility Optional 4540-0 I don't have a 64-bit system, and as far as I know, I don't have any need for openmotif22-libs. I've left it unchecked and uninstalled, and so far there are no apparent problems. Should I do something about it? At the moment it's no big deal, but if more of these come up, it could get hard to identify good updates. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] 10.3 and powermanagement
Frank Seidel wrote: Am Mittwoch 31 Oktober 2007 04:42:34 schrieb John E. Perry: Thinking I'd messed up the KPowersave configuration somehow, I opened it to reconfigure it. _Everything_ is now grayed out. ... In summary, /etc/pm/config.d, sleep,d, and power.d are all empty. I can't find any documentation to tell me what to put into them. There's a lot of text about bash scripts, being careful not to touch /usr/lib/pm, etc. Nothing about what to put into /etc/pm/*. Have you had a look at http://en.opensuse.org/Pm-utils ? (in regards of pm-utils this is the documentation you probably were looking for) Well, yes, I read it before I posted before. Just now, I read it again. I see nothing there about _what_ to put there -- just how to do it. http://en.opensuse.org/S2ram doesn't help at any level I can understand; in fact, running the advised s2ram --test says my machine is not supported. en.opensuse.org/Projects_KPowersave is even less help. As long as you only want to use suspend to disk this is fine, you don't need s2ram-support to be able to use suspend to disk. OK, I misunderstood the references to s2ram, then. ... This seems to me to imply that it had instruction from somewhere, but I can't find any that I can understand, unless it's the defaults in /usr/lib/pm (which I don't really understand). Those instructions and setting will only tell what to do on s2disk, but not when to activate it. So I understood that correctly, at least. But where do I determine how to trigger these scripts? (solved? later) I am not quite sure i understand your problem regarding the suspend triggering. First i thought you were having the problem that nothing is triggered at all, Exactly, at first (except for Saturday afternoon). but now i have the impression that you try to say you had a suspend to disk without any obvious reasons. Well, no; it triggered Saturday afternoon when I left the computer idle for several hours, as it should have. After that, nothing I could do would trigger a suspend. But regarding the all-greyed-out kpowersave i would guess there is a problem with the services it depends on (dbus, hal, policykit). Have you tried restarting those? OK, I knew nothing about those, except as vague references in the documents. However, based on your comment, when I had to shut down the computer to go to a client site, I used the K menu to shut down completely. When I brought it back up, everything seemed to be in order. I guess one or more of dbus, etc. got hung up somehow. All seems to be working well now. Thanks, Frank. This seems to have solved my problem. ...well, one thing has nagged me since I put 10.1 on this thing last year, but it's never been enough of an issue to prod me into asking about it. The battery indication is completely nonsensical. If I calibrate the battery under XP, it performs as advertised, and all the indications are more or less accurate. Under all versions of suse, the battery monitor says things like 99% charged, 15:35 hours to completion at one extreme, or 3.4% charged, 27:14 hours remaining. Is this a matter of hp (on my dv6000) not providing enough or correct information to the linux facilities, or is there something I can do to get more reasonable indications? Actually, it just occurred to me to ask on hp's support forum. I'd still like to hear from you, though. jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] 10.3 upgrade
Stan Goodman wrote: ** Reply to message from Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:02:24 -0400 On 2007/10/30 08:26 (GMT+0200) Stan Goodman apparently typed: Specifying the hardware is very easy: This is an Intel board, 915GAV, with everything on board, specifically the video. ... Because of the Intel video, I'd stick with 10.2 until 11.0 has been released. Really! That is very discouraging, because I am pretty sure it is to late to for that. I suppose that by the time the upgrade gets to the first reboot, what is on the HD isn't really v10.2 anymore. Why are you saying this? What difficulty is known about v10.3 and the video subsystem on the Intel 915G MB? I'm curious myself. In 10.2 I had to set up 915resolution myself on my 945GM board, but the 10.3 installer detected it, detected the lcd's resolution, warned me that it was correcting the bad 945 information, and came up perfectly. Except for having to manually fix the screen resolution, my understanding is that the Intel systems are among the easier ones to get maximum performance from. Mine certainly went to accelerated mode with no problem. Why would Stan have any problem? John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Can I verify using k3b?
I finally worked up the courage to upgrade to 10.3. Using K3b, I wrote a dvd, but some time in the past, the verify and do not eject buttons got unchecked and I didn't notice it. K3b completed without error, but, since it ejected the dvd, it errored out, and now I have a (probably) good dvd to use for installation, but can't convince K3b to verify it. Should I just burn a new dvd, or is there some way to verify its contents before destroying my 10.2 system? John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Can I verify using k3b?
Todd Ness wrote: ... When you start the install there is an option to check your media. As I wrote in my post, the dvd's already written. K3b completed without error. The only problem is that when I checked the verify button, I didn't notice that the do not eject button was unchecked. So K3b couldn't verify the (ejected) dvd, and I can't get it to verify now. If the media's good, does that mean the data is also good? jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Can I verify using k3b?
Randall R Schulz wrote: .. You don't quite explicitly say it, but I take it the DVD you burned is one of the openSUSE 10.3 installation discs. Yes. If so, then you can verify it using the YaST Media Check module on your 10.2 system. If you still have the .iso image file, you can compare it byte-for-byte with the burned disc like this: % cmp openSUSE-10.3-GM-DVD-i386.iso /dev/DVD_DRIVE_DEVICE You'll have to substitute the name of your DVD drive for DVD_DRIVE_DEVICE. Thanks, Randall and Sebastian Brandt -- two good ways to settle the issue. I'll get the cmp started right now. jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Can I verify using k3b?
Gabriel . wrote: Check this thread http://lists.samba.org/archive/linux/2005-July/014001.html to compare the md5sum of your iso with de recorded DVD one ...and sure enough, Andrew Powell's two simple lines gave me everything I needed. Thanks, Gabriel. Actually, I just went to the opensuse site and compared the md5sum there with what was on the dvd. Now I know both the iso on the disk and that on the dvd are correct. jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] fstab: umount as user
G T Smith wrote: ...NT user accounts are frequently dynamically created on the local machine on login and the account removed on logout, accounts and their settings exist on the network NOT the machine (I am unaware of anything similar on *NIX). The approach has its problems but works well enough... After all the really good stuff you've contributed, this is a real shocker, so maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying. I worked in a facility a few years ago (late '90's) where there were dozens of antique Suns, of the 10MHz Sparc, 128M RAM, 50MB disk variety, and a few late-model, high-power machines. We got a new sysadmin who, within a few days, had us all set up with an nfs-shared central home directory on a large, fast machine. We could log in from anywhere in the facility and have our own complete working environment, with all our personal environment, file structure, and home-based programs. I even had him set up my machine (one of the slowest, smallest, oldest) to work as an X-terminal to one of the largest, most powerful, but little used machines, and the only difference between running my applications on the Ultra and on my klunky little desktop was that my machine had only 256 colors available for display. Doesn't this qualify as dynamically created on the local machine? and on the intermediate machine? Solaris is unix, you're aware? John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Good or Bad of SuSE Novell Takeover - Was: Re: subpixel hinting...
Stefan Hundhammer wrote: ... Folks, please get just a little bit more informed before you start bashing Novell. The old SuSE people don't do it, and there are reasons for that. Wow, I already considered Novell heroic enough in the SCO affair that I stuck with them even through what I consider a disgusting cozying up to Microsoft. It's good to hear that there are more heroic actions to support. I'd never have heard all this without your comments and I appreciate it, Stefan. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] How do I seed a downloaded torrent?
I downloaded 10.3, and it completed without problem. However, I neglected to tell ktorrent where to put it, so it put it in my top-level home directory, rather than under the suse software sub-directory I use. I forgot it was still seeding, and moved the iso out from under it, which of course killed the seed. But no matter what I do, when I restart ktorrent, it insists on downloading another complete copy of the iso. I can't find any way to tell ktorrent to just seed, and I'm at a ratio of 0.27. I'd really like to continue seeding, if someone could tell me how to do it without downloading another copy of the iso. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] How do I seed a downloaded torrent?
Sunny wrote: On 10/5/07, John E. Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... I'd really like to continue seeding, if someone could tell me how to do it without downloading another copy of the iso. Stop the download in ktorrent. Remove the torrent from the list. Then open the torrent again. It will ask you where to save/download. Select the location where the iso is now. It will find it, scan it and start seed. Thanks, that solved my problem. I also configured the file locations before I loaded the torrent, so it now does what I actually need. I think. It took an hour or more for it to recognize tracker.opensuse.org. Now ktorrent says there are 3644 leechers, and I have only one constantly connected, who is not downloading any chunks. Occasionally I get a spurt of connections, 5 -- 10 at a time, who almost immediately disconnect after downloading a few chunks. In the past 4 hours I've seeded 9.4M over my 10+Mbps connection. So I'm trying to contribute, but no one is accepting anything from me. Am I understanding the display correctly? Why would my available service not be used? Do I have some other problem? jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] OpenOffice 2.3
Petr Mladek wrote: On Thursday 20 September 2007, Ben Kevan wrote: On Thursday 20 September 2007 05:23:18 am JP Rosevear wrote: On Thu, 2007-09-20 at 13:57 +0200, Hans van der Merwe wrote: On Thu, 2007-09-20 at 12:38 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote: 2.3 is the stable release now, Petr just hasn't had a chance to move it over yet. Having a release put off because 1 person doesn't have time is quite ridiculous. ... ... Reminds me of Veronica, who just had to have her Oompa-Loompa NOW!!! Personally, I'm overjoyed to have access to an Oompa-Loompa from suse, and I can wait until it's ready to come to me :-). Thanks, Petr (and suse). John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Intel 965G and 1680 x 1050
Carlos E. R. wrote: The Sunday 2007-09-09 at 16:05 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: You also need to supply a line in the Section Modes area as well. It's been my experience that recent versions of xorg function fine without modes defined in xorg.conf. In all mine I've been commenting away the It can autodiscover the proper settings. At least, what the card says it is proper. I think you can see them lines in the /var/log/Xorg.0.log searching for Printing DDC gathered Modelines:. When we had this same issue a few months ago, one of the group said that Xorg is correctly written to get the parameters from the chipset itself. Some chipsets do not correctly report their options, so Xorg.conf cannot determine the true required parameters. For Intel chipsets (among the guilty ones) the 855resolution module was written, then modified to get the 915resolution module. Although the discussion was prompted by another list member, I was struggling with this problem at the time (I have a 945G chipset), and the discussion helped me get my 1280X800 laptop LCD set up properly. Search the archives for 915resolution. Somewhere in there is a link to a 915resolution web site that should clear things up for you. Ah, here it is: http://www.geocities.com/stomljen/ Hope this helps. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] silly girls' cli copy problem
Felix Miata wrote: On 2007/09/01 00:41 (GMT+0200) primm apparently typed: I've 800 or so files and folders in a folder called nonmembers. I mkdir another folder in the folder nonmembers called members. I want to copy all the 800 files in nonmembers to members. The others' answers got you by, but consider for the future another option - a text mode OFM, or shell. ... Or, if the two directories are on the same partition, just change the name of the nonmembers directory: cd .. rm -r members mv nonmembers members then if you still want a nonmembers directory, mkdir nonmembers. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] silly girls' cli copy problem
John E. Perry wrote: Felix Miata wrote: On 2007/09/01 00:41 (GMT+0200) primm apparently typed: I've 800 or so files and folders in a folder called nonmembers. I mkdir another folder in the folder nonmembers called members. I want to copy all the 800 files in nonmembers to members. The others' answers got you by, but consider for the future another option - a text mode OFM, or shell. ... Or, if the two directories are on the same partition, just change the name of the nonmembers directory: ... then if you still want a nonmembers directory, mkdir nonmembers. John Perry Sorry, a bit of sloppy reading, there. This should do it: rm -r members cd .. mv nonmembers members mkdir nonmembers mv members nonmembers/members jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] wireless card driver for Acer Aspire 9300
Aaron Siegel wrote: Hello What is the manufacture of your wireless, chipset. If you have windows running in the computer you can find this infomation there. Have you looked in the output of dmesg. It can also be found in the specification from Acer. So how is your italian? http://www.ziobudda.net/aspire_9300 About halfway through the list of resources in his computer, he finds: note: il wi-fi e' riconosciuto come ATHEROS AR5005G e richiede idriver MADWIFI(licenza non open???) Notes: The wi-fi is recognized as ATHEROS AR5005G and requires drivers MADWIFI (non-open license?) There are several other references to wi-fi, but they are general descriptions in nature. This is the only specific information. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] wireless card driver for Acer Aspire 9300
John E. Perry wrote: Aaron Siegel wrote: Hello What is the manufacture of your wireless, chipset. If you have windows running in the computer you can find this infomation there. Have you looked in the output of dmesg. It can also be found in the specification from Acer. So how is your italian? http://www.ziobudda.net/aspire_9300 About halfway through the list of resources in his computer, he finds: note: il wi-fi e' riconosciuto come ATHEROS AR5005G e richiede idriver MADWIFI(licenza non open???) Notes:The wi-fi is recognized as ATHEROS AR5005G and requires drivers MADWIFI (non-open license?) There are several other references to wi-fi, but they are general descriptions in nature. This is the only specific information. John Perry Sorry -- spoke too soon. Not being a linux expert, I don't know if the following is of any significance or not; it was at the end of the page: nomehost:~ # lspci . . . dm_mod 60184 0 wlan_scan_sta 17280 1 pcmcia 40892 0 firmware_class 14080 1 pcmcia nvidia 4720820 22 ath_pci 95648 0 ide_cd 42272 0 cdrom 38432 1 ide_cd ath_rate_sample 18304 1 ath_pci wlan 189532 4 wlan_scan_sta,ath_pci,ath_rate_sample yenta_socket 30348 1 . . . jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: Who said Linux doesnot get Virus infections
Joachim Schrod wrote: ... Let me propose another hilarious 5-step process: 1. Read the LWN.net security page. OK, so I did. 2. Detect how many exploits are based on data files, and not on executables. just last week: ... Not a single exploit listed. Many vulnerabilities, almost all qualified as user-assisted or local. 3. Stop feeling so smug. I know of no one who's feeling smug -- except maybe you? 4. Follow other exploit publications, security pages, and security mailing lists; detect how many privledge escalation exploits are out there. Understand that they can be triggered by remote exploits from step 2. I do, frequently, and in every case, it's the same -- zero exploits, many vulnerabilities, almost all qualified as user-assisted. All with solutions or planned solutions. And all found by professionals doing good work -- not by bad guys looking to do harm. Contrast that with the Microsoft situation. 5. Start feeling numb when you read all the dumb posts in this thread that focus on executable programs that the user must run (because this is the prominent attack vector on Windows). Actually, I can only feel irritated at the one hysteria-monger who can't see the difference between good work finding and characterizing vulnerabilities and poor work reacting to exploits of vulnerabilities swept under the rug. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Has someone found any driver for Intels 3945 card on the openSUSE-10.3 DVDs?
Frank Fiene wrote: On Samstag, 18. August 2007, John E. Perry wrote: ... ipw3945d-1.7.18-29.i586.rpm Yes, but this is only the user space daemon, isn't it? You're quite right. Sorry. However, since I know I've never compiled a kernel module for linux, and my laptop worked pretty quickly after I bought a wifi router, I'm pretty sure it is in the suse system. I looked in the kernel package for something that might be it, but didn't see anything. I have the Intel iwlwifi and ipw3945 sites in my bookmarks, but I don't recall ever downloading anything from them, and I just set up my wifi in the middle of June, so I'd have remembered anything more complicated than downloading and installing a binary rpm. But I really don't remember even that. Have you actually tried setting your machine up with the original suse installation? jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Has someone found any driver for Intels 3945 card on the openSUSE-10.3 DVDs?
Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Aug 17 2007 18:56, Frank Fiene wrote: I've also tried to compile ipw3945-1.2.1, it doesn't compile Works for me. The compilation, that is. Perhaps it is because I have a solid new fluffy kernel :P There's a suse binary rpm on my copy of the dvd: ipw3945d-1.7.18-29.i586.rpm It's working fine on my hp dv6000. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Who said Linux doesnot get Virus infections
David Bolt wrote: On Tue, 7 Aug 2007, Clayton wrote:- snip This does not account for buffer overflow exploits etc... Of course, there's also those infections that occur without user intervention, but those tend to come in through security holes in server daemons which are unlikely to be running on a normal users desktop system. The susceptibility of linux vs windows has been pretty well discussed in this thread except for the biggest difference between the two -- the regular security updates from many sources (which we see several times a week on this list) for linux vs the occasional update from Microsoft -- usually too late to help most people. Linux has many people actively working to keep it safe, and Microsoft has a number of people reacting to exploits, although it's been my impression lately that Microsoft is getting more serious about it. I have several dozen updates to my wife's XP Pro machine, of which a fair fraction are security fixes for problems that I haven't seen. Anyone handling their computer responsibly will have no trouble at all in linux, but it requires real paranoia under windows. (My wife uses firefox and thunderbird, and Office97. I'm working on OOO to replace Office, but she's happy with what she has.) Lack of attention, of course, is the real reason so many have trouble, even if they don't know enough to see it, under windows. It's so much easier to maintain a linux machine responsibly, and there's so much more help available. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Trying to bring up wifi
John E. Perry wrote: ... Well, after giving up for a while, during which time my laptop suspended itself to disk, I came back intending to keep trying. ... Strangely enough (according to what I've understood from Google), KWiFiManager still doesn't work. But it seems I don't need it now. The normal network manager did just fine on its own. I appears ipw3945d was all I needed, although it took several hours and a suspension for the computer to figure out that it was working :-). After thinking about it some more, it occurs to me that kNetworkManager was already functioning soon after I started ipw3945d. I recall reading in my investigations that only one network manager would function at a time, and I was trying to use KWiFiManager when KNetworkManager was in control. If I'd realized that sooner, and looked at kNetworkManager rather than KWiFiManager, I probably would have had complete success much sooner. jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Trying to bring up wifi
Hans van der Merwe wrote: If I'd realized that sooner, and looked at kNetworkManager rather than KWiFiManager, I probably would have had complete success much sooner. You must still figure out why ipw3945d is not loaded at startup (or at loading of module?) Hm. Not being an experienced systems programmer or administrator, I assumed it was up to me to start it up somewhere in an initialization script. So it should have come up on its own with ipw3945? jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Trying to bring up wifi
Thanks, Hans; here are my results. Hans van der Merwe wrote: Ok, lets start with the obvious: No eth1 device - so the module (driver) is either not working or the interface is not up. Check that the module is loaded (do all this as su (root user)) (1) lsmod (this will list the modules loaded, is ipw3945 in there) ipw3945 191520 0 ieee80211 34632 1 ipw3945 firmware_class 14080 1 ipw3945 ps ax (check that ipw3945d in running) 1908 ?S 0:00 [ipw3945/0] 1910 ?S 0:00 [ipw3945/0] 16014 ?S 0:00 [ipw3945/1] 16015 ?S 0:00 [ipw3945/1] (2) if it is: ifup eth1 Interface eth1 is not available (3) if not: modprobe ipw3945 repeat (1) when successful - do (2) Just this for now. Also check the /var/log/messages log when loading the module, for any errors Jul 3 10:51:54 embelex sudo: john : TTY=pts/5 ; PWD=/home/john ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/sbin/ifup eth1 Jul 3 10:51:54 embelex ifup: Interface eth1 is not available Nothing else in /var/log/messages near this time -- all other messages more than an hour ago. Thanks much! jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Locked out of my software database!
Hi, My opensuse updater suddenly started showing the yellow triangle with the exclamation point a few days ago. When I try to clear it, it exits with the message Another process is accessing the package database. Package management cannot be used now. ps -e | grep ast shows only something called master running, so it doesn't appear to be yast. I can't get either the updater or yast to run without rebooting the machine. What else could be locking the database? John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Locked out of my software database!
Daniel Feiglin wrote: John E. Perry wrote: Hi, My opensuse updater suddenly started showing the yellow triangle with the exclamation point a few days ago. When I try to clear it, it exits with the message Another process is accessing the package database. Package management cannot be used now. ... ps -ef | grep y2base Same thing. ps -ef | grep zyp This was it. Both y2base and zypper were running. (Need to find out what y2base is). Killing them let the updater run, and it's nice and green again. This all started, I think, when I tried to set up a new wifi router (Netgear WPN824NA). Trying to install kwifimanager, I got a libpng.so.2 dependency error, and haven't been able to use any package management software since. What would start zypper and y2base and not stop them when it failed? I've had other dependency errors that didn't clog up my package system. (Thanks, Ken, I did know better than to follow Daniel's advice on kill -9, although I have in the past gone straight from kill to kill -9. I'll have to read up on kill to see what -1 is). jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Locked out of my software database!
Darryl Gregorash wrote: On 2007-06-30 19:13, John E. Perry wrote: snip (Thanks, Ken, I did know better than to follow Daniel's advice on kill -9, although I have in the past gone straight from kill to kill -9. I'll have to read up on kill to see what -1 is). 1 is a HUP -- kill -l will print a list of all signals. Ah. So, using kill -l, I see SIGHUP, SIGINT, SIGQUIT, SIGTRAP, SIGABRT, and SIGKILL, all of which seem to be closely related. So I still have some reading to do to understand it and know what to do (as opposed to following blindly the advice of people who maybe really know what's going on :-). Wait a minute! there's no description of kill with no parameter. and man, as usual, has no useful information. More googling, I guess. jp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] router DHCP suddenly not talking to one machine (1 0.1)
James Knott wrote: G T Smith wrote: John E. Perry wrote: Russell Jones wrote: ... Disagree. For 100Mbps, just get Cat. 5. It'll work fine. Spend your pennies on something else. Same here. I have my home network connected with cat-5E (only a little more costly than cat-5 when I bought it, and it runs 100Mbps just fine -- even over the 40 ft to my son's room. John Perry If I remember correctly shielding is a two way thing, basically you are running a potential 40ft radio aerial in the latter case. If you have a lot of cables or have anything which is sensitive to radio emissions close by, Cat 6 starts making sense. There are two ways to reduce interference to from a cable. Those are shielding and twisted pairs. UTP cable, including CAT 6 relies on twisted pairs to reduce interference. Unless the twist rate for CAT 6 is significantly more than CAT 5, there will be little difference between the two for interference purposes. In fact, twisting is superior to shielding in practical installations, unless there's a great deal of near-field interference, when shielding can be really effective. But the purpose of the high-quality cables is to preserve waveform fidelity, which is why the more carefully made cables give better bandwidth. I didn't know cat-6 cables were available yet. I'll have to give it a look. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] router DHCP suddenly not talking to one machine (1 0.1)
Russell Jones wrote: ... Disagree. For 100Mbps, just get Cat. 5. It'll work fine. Spend your pennies on something else. Same here. I have my home network connected with cat-5E (only a little more costly than cat-5 when I bought it, and it runs 100Mbps just fine -- even over the 40 ft to my son's room. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Mount ISO as user
Peter Van Lone wrote: ... using gnome, I can just right-click and select Open with File Roller. I can then open/view files, and selectively choose to extract the ones I want outside of the ISO. Is that not sufficient? I love it ... and love that there is no native way to do that in winders ... I imagine that in KDE the integrated archive utility has similar functionality. Well, I wasn't able to get in directly under Konqueror, but Krusader treated my suse10.2 iso's just like directories. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] GUI for environment variables
Kai Ponte wrote: ...I suppose you could have the wrapper fire up emacs as well... but its a well known fact that real men use vi... so, there it is. Kai stands up Hi, my name is, Kai. (from audience) Hi, Kai! I am a Kate user and I don't know Vi. Hey, Kai, I'm the ultimate blasphemer -- I'm an enthusiastic kate user, and I _do_ know vi :-). John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Assembly Language program
jdd wrote: Randall R Schulz wrote: If speed is an issue, a purely interpreted language Forth is not an interpreted langage. only uses a small number of assembly langage function and recursive calls. No, the Forth text is interpreted once into bytecodes, then the bytecodes are interpreted from there to execute the machine code functions. Still interpretation, but much faster. Just like Billy G's original Microsoft Basic in the early '80's. But any new function is added to the underlying system and available instantly, and all this is done function by function. very simple for structured programming. True enough. I was fascinated by Forth for a while, but never got to use it professionally. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Assembly Language program
M Harris wrote: On Sunday 03 June 2007 13:43, Vince L wrote: too many oldtimer, here :-))) Punched cards, anyone? My first official computer related job (ca. 1970, I was 15) was computer operator on an IBM 360 mod44 (fully transistorized high speed number crunching mainframe--- with 256K of main ram!). Another 360/44 user! I used it in a nuclear lab from 1971 -- 1976. I was officially an electronics technician going to school, but often helped physicists optimize their data acquisition and reduction code. ...card hopper. We eventually installed drive packs... with platters the size of a large cake pan... and the drive units were the size of a washing machine. Yeah, we had those 6-platter, 10-surface 14 packs, too. It was scary the first few times hearing the clunk-clunk as the heads did their seeks. Am I remembering correctly that those held an ample 10MB total? :-) John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] KDE 4 in parallel to KDE 3 on openSUSE 10.2, possible?
Mohammad Bhuyan wrote: Hi All, Writing to the list as the instruction provided in opensuse wiki ( http://en.opensuse.org/KDE4 ) was not clear enough for me. 1. Can I install KDE 4 parallel to my KDE 3.5.7 (latest release) on 10.2? I'vwe never tried this with kde, but when I had to test programs under several compilers at work, I handled it by installing the compilers and their libraries to /opt/version, then writing a shell script that linked them to /usr and /etc. When I needed to change compiler, I executed the script for that version. I can't see why this wouldn't work for a window manager. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] alt-F1?
I've seen several statements lately that one gets to the black console screens via alt-F1. When I do this, I get the KDE menu. I have to do ctrl-alt-Fx to get to the consoles. As far as I know, my system is a simple standard opensuse 10.2 with the basic suse updates through opensuseupdater. No hacks, no obscure window manager additions. Why is my X different? Should I be concerned? John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] X hangs, when konqueror tries to open some https-urls...
Siegfried Wolkenstein wrote: Hello, When I try to open this link (https://www.sparkasse.it/public/ddw.aspx?n=1431l=3ly=10h=s=1id=cd=1) in konqueror, X crashes sometimes - X doesn't respond to any usercommands but [ctrl-alt-backspace]. What can I do about this? This bug lurks around since SuSE 8.0. I just never felt like telling anyone :-). It is no big deal to me, since I use firefox instead (just for this link and some other ssl-pages... Works fine for me, though, since I don't have an account, I can't go any farther. John Perry opensuse 10.2, fully updated under opensuseupdater, hp dv6000CTO laptop -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Installing xen on a working machine?
I have a recently acquired laptop, which came with Windows XP. I reformatted the hard drive and installed 10.2 on one partition and Xp on another, smaller partition (I need some stuff that only runs on Windows). So, now, I'm dual-booting, and I'd like to move to a virtual machine environment. I'd rather not have to reinstall everything. I've been watching the list postings regarding quemu, VMware, and virtualbox. Suse supports xen directly, but no one seems to be talking about it, and the wiki has a slot for installing a VM from a disk image, but no text (the page is a year old, still waiting for text). Also, the xen documentation in /usr/share seems to imply that you need processor support (the Intel VT extensions) to use XP under xen. I have a Core duo, which doesn't have these extensions. Am I understanding correctly that I can't use xen for XP in my machine? Are the other virtualization systems better in some important sense than xen, or is it just that no one is interested in xen? Where can I find suse-oriented how-to's for these other systems if it's better to go another way (I don't have a lot of time for futzing around with half-prepared material, but I don't mind even considerable work preparing and setting up something that promises to work well). Any advice? pointers to detailed help? encouragement? John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] 10.2 is turning into a nightmare
Billie Erin Walsh wrote: As far as I know I only use four apps that require Gnome. Firefox, Thunderbird, Gftp and Gramps. Well, maybe five if you include Sunbird. I don't have Gnome installed, and I run Firefox and Thunderbird without problem -- I've read somewhere that KDE and Gnome have been updated to play nice together, so you don't normally need to install one to use its programs under the other. But I don't use Gftp, gramps, or Sunbird, so I can't say anything about them. ... I can't even get my openSuSE install DVD out of the drive because it says I don't have Kmediamanager running. Pushing the eject button on the drive does nothing because SOMETHING has it locked. I can't unmount the drive. I guess I'm going to have to resort to the paper clip method to open the drive tray. Well, I run 6 desktops, and I've found that when I can't unmount or eject a drive, it means that some program on one of them has it open -- for instance, I will have cd'd to the drive in one of my dozen or more konsole tabs and forgotten about it, or one of my konqueror invocations has it displayed in one of its tabs. Once I've found and fixed that, the eject goes smoothly. ... The hell of it is that I was just getting this thing to work pretty good. As others have mentioned, you shouldn't be updating for all the bleeding edge stuff unless you really have the knowledge to clean up after someone else's mistakes or oversights. I had been following this list and had gotten the impression that the more update sites I had, the better off I was, so every time I saw a new one I put it into my yast site list. I had a dozen or so sites, and a continual update mess. After I came across the less is better for non-gurus comment, I reinstalled 10.0 with just suse and packman for updating, and the whole thing behaved nicely (until the zen disaster with 10.1). With 10.2, I even dumped packman, since I don't really need mplayer for the little multimedia stuff I deal with. I don't seem to have any use for the other stuff packman has beyond opensuse's resources. Since then, I've been quite comfortable with suse, and updates have gone smoothly for the most part. On the rare occasions that zen has misbehaved, I fire up YOU, and that seems to clear up even zen's messes. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Problems with HP Pavilion DV6000 [SOLVED]
J Sloan wrote: Will Stephenson wrote: ... #3 - display problems - Despite the fact that this is an intel 945 graphics chipset with 100% FOSS drivers, I can't get anything more than 1024x768 resolution, although it's capable of 1440x900. Any attempt to set a higher resolution than 1024x768 gets a corrupted xmd screen, and I have to fall back to the basic 1024x768 to get up and running again. Sounds like you need to use 915resolution to patch the video bios so that it reports that it's capable of 1440x900. There's plenty of info on the web on how this works, and the readme in our 915resolution package (rpm -ql 915resolution) is quite helpful, but note that we now provide /etc/sysconfig/videobios where you can add the right parameters so that 915resolution is run on boot. Yep, the 915resolution package did the trick, with a 1-line modification to /etc/sysconfig/videobios as you suggested. Did the trick for me, too. I've been looking at a distorted 1024X768 screen for months, now, and the suggestions from my query on 12/14/06 didn't help. Thanks! -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Fact or Fiction? Possible Novell Ban
James Knott wrote: Patrick Shanahan wrote: * John E. Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] [02-04-07 23:38]: Darryl Gregorash wrote: ... There are no MS patents in code in any GPL software. There never will be. That is a statement that neither you nor anyone else outside of Microsoft management can make. They have gotten thousands of software patents in the past couple of years, and we don't know what they cover, or, more to the point, what Microsoft will _say_ they cover. And Mickey$oft's word is good for Once they've got a patent, it has to be challenged. Remember what happened with RIM and the Blackberry. They had to pay about 1/2 billion for infringing on a patent that was well on it's way to being invalidated. Thanks, James. Good to see there's someone else here who doesn't have his head in the sand. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Fact or Fiction? Possible Novell Ban
Darryl Gregorash wrote: ... There are no MS patents in code in any GPL software. There never will be. That is a statement that neither you nor anyone else outside of Microsoft management can make. They have gotten thousands of software patents in the past couple of years, and we don't know what they cover, or, more to the point, what Microsoft will _say_ they cover. As I stated in a previous thread on this subject, a patent is valid until a court says it is invalid, and in a patent suit, the most bucks usually win -- even if the patent is flagrantly silly to knowledgeable professionals. If Microsoft has patented a 20-year-old software technique that has been in the linux kernel for 15 years, it's up to linux partisans to convince _a_court_ that linux doesn't violate the patent. That means _nonprofessionals_ will decide whether Microsoft professionals or linux's professionals are lying -- and Microsoft clearly has the most bucks (unless IBM participates aggressively). The Novell/SuSE people here have made that very clear. They may have made clear that they know of none. That's different from making it clear that there _are_ none. All they've really done (officially, at least) is covered themselves and _their_customers_ for five years against such an attack. We can only hope they know what they are doing. It appears that FSF isn't so sure. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Zen troubles again.
Andreas Jaeger wrote: John E. Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Please file also a bugreport in bugzilla and attach the zmd-*log files, Andreas Bug #237571. The bugzilla is somewhat confusing; there's no indication of how to attach files and such until the second screen. Some of my comments are therefore obsolete. If the site won't accept plain text files, why is there an option? And why not say that, rather than saying the files are empty? There were only 37K of text files, which didn't seem excessive after sending 220K of bz2 files :-). -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] OpenSuse KDE: Konqueror or Firefox?
Samir van de Sand wrote: Hey everyone, after using Gnome for a very long time, I recently switched to the KDE environment (withhin my general switch to OpenSuse). So which browser should I choose? Konqueror is a native QT app and also integrates nicely with other KDE apps (like KDE Wallet) and furthermore it seems more lightweight than Firefox. On the other side Konqueror has problems with displaying some web sites. Well, with 9.0 -- 9.2, I had so much trouble with Konqueror that I started using Firefox exclusively. Recently I've been using Konqueror more and more because much of what I do makes the split-screen feature really attractive. Also, I've been having much less trouble with Konqueror displaying sites. ...in fact, I can't remember one I've tried recently that gave trouble. But then, most of my browsing is still with Firefox. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Need Router Recommendation
Greg Wallace wrote: ... I found out that Netgear and D-Link both make wired routers. Anyone had experience with either of these? Anyone have another alternative brand to recommend? My Netgear RP614v2 has done quite well for several years now. I tried it with one of those sites that scan your firewall, and the scanner said my network was invisible to the Net, which was considered a Good Thing. I have several computers connected to my internal firewall, and the only things we use it for are Web and NTP. The Web is normal outgoing only, with response; NTP is Triggered by an internal computer requesting the port, then the port is open to NTP servers for one minute. Then we are invisible again. I don't think the RP614v2 is available any more, but I wouldn't consider anything but a Netgear if I have to replace it. The internal web management interface is convenient, too. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] More zen problems
Sorry to be a pest, but zen still hasn't done a successful update since the libzypp update last week. Last time, at Joe Morris's prompting, I did the update with YOU, and had only temporary problems. I haven't tried YOU yet, but Andreas asked for a bug report for the last one, and I want to give him a chance to see this episode. Should I add today's zmd-*log files to the bug report? or generate a new one? or just go away :-)? This time, zen came up asking to update acroread and xine-lib, once each for a security update and once each for an i586 package update. I clicked update. After a longer than usual wait (10 --15 minutes in each case), it came back with the following message box: Transaction failed: Transaction preparation failed: Package hal-32bit-0.5.8_git20061106-31.1 is already installed. I think this is the one I did with YOU yesterday at Joe Morris's prompting. I tried having zen update the packages one at a time. For acroread security, a message box pops up after a long time: Install the following additional software acroread - 7.0.9-2.1 (Package) Looking at AR, I see 7.0.8 05/22/2006. I click Apply. I immediately get the message box: Transaction failed: Transaction preparation failed: Package hal-32bit-0.5.8_git20061106-31.1 is already installed. I deselect acroread, select xine security. After a long time, I get the box Install the following additional software xine-lib - 1.1.2-40.1 (Package) rpm -q says xine is not installed. I click Apply. I immediately get the message box: Transaction failed: Transaction preparation failed: Package hal-32bit-0.5.8_git20061106-31.1 is already installed. I try the acroread (i586) update. After a long time, the main box says Preparing Software..., then a message box says: Transaction failed: Transaction preparation failed: Package hal-32bit-0.5.8_git20061106-31.1 is already installed. I got corresponding results for the xine (i586) package update. So YOU didn't update the database yesterday? If that's the problem, how can I fix it? If xine is not installed, why does zen want to update it? Didn't someone here say there should be no update requests for uninstalled software? And why am I suddenly having so much trouble, and no one else seems to be having any? Finally, should I go ahead and use YOU to get the blob blue again? If I use YOU, how do reconcile the database? -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: Creating a swap file
Theo v. Werkhoven wrote:
Sat, 20 Jan 2007, by [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
The Saturday 2007-01-20 at 11:26 +0100, Theo v. Werkhoven wrote:
Well, my instructors in the early '70's told me that a byte was
analogous to bite -- not the smallest bit accessible, but smaller
than the full-size word of most architectures of the time. And some
architectures do allow you direct access to a bit.
Why only some?
Aren't shift- and logical operations part of all CPU architectures?
That's not direct access to a bit, IMO. Direct access would be an
operation that would load into a register a certain bit, or another that
would compare directly to a certain bit in a byte in memory (in one op). I
have never seen it, though.
That would be rather inefficient opcodes I think, and I can't think
of any circumstance where that would be neccesary. Perhaps that's
why you don't see it.
Hardware-intensive control requires bit testing and setting. Several
microprocessors used opcodes like bittest {address}, bitno to test a
single bit in a single instruction with only a single memory or I/O
access to the target address. They had a corresponding bitset
operation, too.
This was important when memory was expensive and small, and when
processors were slow.
What's inefficient from that point of view is the modern memory-only
access, requiring loading a bitmask, loading the target address,
operation, storing the result.
Of course, now that memory is nearly infinite for nearly zero cost,
processors are lightspeed fast, and compilers have replaced assemblers
as the programming environment of choice, efficiency has flip-flopped.
--
John Perry
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Re: [opensuse] Zen troubles again.
Joe Morris (NTM) wrote: John E. Perry wrote: What can I do to fix this? Use Yast Online Update. Yep. That did it. I just tried zen again to make sure it wasn't a temporary server issue, and zen did the same thing. YOU downloaded it, installed it, and set up the database. The only hitch was that it insisted on looking for ...CD1 for the first two items, then updated all 3 when I told it to skip them. So, scary but successful. The blob even turned blue after YOU shut down. Thanks, Joe. (Seems to me I've had this same advice before when zen collapsed. I'll try to remember in the future.) -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Zen troubles again.
Yesterday, zen asked to update libzypp among other things. I let it go, and all seemed to go well. Among the updates was some X stuff, so I rebooted, and all seemed good. Today, zen is asking to update hal, hal-32bit, and hal-devel. I've tried 3 times -- the last time trying a reboot between the tries. Each time when it tries resolving dependencies, I get a message box: Dependency Resolution Failed child exited due to SIGIOT What can I do to fix this? -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Creating a swap file
J Sloan wrote: John E. Perry wrote: ...By the way, all this discussion has been about swap _files_, which for a long time were not possible under linux. Until fairly recently, swapping had to be to and from partitions. Fairly recently, in geological terms, you mean? ISTR setting up a linux swap file in 1993 or so, sort of an oops I needed a bigger swap partition kind of thing. Geez, has it really been that long? I didn't buy 5.0 until 1996 or so, and I distinctly remember being in terror at the prospect of killing a disk by changing all that partitioning. Or maybe it was even earlier when I tried unsuccessfully to make Slackware work? -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Creating a swap file
Randall R Schulz wrote: I still don't get why its authors didn't recognize lower-case 'm' as equivalent to upper-case 'M'. Maybe because M == Mega and m == milli? There's no such collision with k and K. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Creating a swap file
Randall R Schulz wrote: The only thing you can say for sure is that whenever the system's overall working set size exceeds the available RAM, you'll be thrashing (if swap space is available at all). And if the total RAM required exceeds available physical RAM plus swap, then the unlucky process that tries to exceed that limit will simply not be able to get the RAM allocation it requests. If it cannot explicitly handle that condition, it will be terminated. ...By the way, all this discussion has been about swap _files_, which for a long time were not possible under linux. Until fairly recently, swapping had to be to and from partitions. I set my linux systems up that way, and never bothered to look at swap files at all after they became available. Are there any advantages to one arrangement over the other? It seems there would be some advantage to having the possibility of building a new swap file if you're short on swap space. Not that I expect to ever have the issue. I have a 2G partition which has never had more than a couple of hundred MB in use, and that only because I keep several large programs running all the time so I don't have to wait for them to start up. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: Re: [opensuse] Mail from FireFox.]
Fred A. Miller wrote: On Monday January 01 2007 3:17 am, Basil Chupin wrote: This is interesting. The FireFox I have installed is from SUSE, including their latest update. There ISN'T in my home dir a /home/xxx/firefox directory. There's a .firefox dir. with not much in it. Now, WHY is there so [Are you sure about the .firefox dir because I don't think I have ever seen one only the .mozilla directory?] I worked yesterday over 12 hours, and was up for 20, then came home and tried to find that file. Deaf and dumb in both eyesshould have just gone to bed. ;) Now, if I can find the line again that needs to be put in there, I'll be all set. :) Well, don't feel too bad. I have the .firefox directory in my home directory right now, I believe because an older version of firefox put it there, and it never got removed when I updated to a newer version. I've looked into both, and know that firefox currently uses .mozilla/firefox; the most recent entry in .firefox is 7/19/06 (libjavaplugin_oji.so), and many of the entries under .mozilla/firefox are today (I just now started my session). -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse
Basil Chupin wrote: John E. Perry wrote: Just two problems: first, I took others' advice again to switch from Reiser to ext3fs, but my home directory is too big to get onto cd's or dvd's, so I now have a system based on ext3fs except for the /home directory, which is still Reiser. I'm digging through the home directories so I can divide it onto several dvds, but it's going to take a while. How big *is* your /home directory?! :-) 32+G. I have thousands of technical documents from 35+ years of engineering work, hundreds more from hobbies I've had over the years, and dozens more from various projects I've done on contract since I got laid off from my last few jobs. And how big is your / partition where Suse is intstalled? Surely it must be big enough and with enough space left for you to copy your current /home directory to / then format your current /home partition in ext3 and then it copy back from / . No, this can't be done? / is 20G, of which suse 10.2 takes up 5.7G, and I haven't finished installing all the applications I need and want. -- John Perry Embedded Electronics -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse
John Andersen wrote: On Sunday 24 December 2006 21:14, John E. Perry wrote: Just two problems: first, I took others' advice again to switch from Reiser to ext3fs, Precisely who gave you that bum advice? There is no reason what so ever to switch filesystems on an existing partition which you had no desire to reformat anyway. OK, advice is too strong a word. Since suse switched over to making ext3 the default, rather than reiser3, there have been many posts on this list telling about Reiser 3 corrupting data, sometimes recoverable, sometimes not. The message I got was not to change unless there was good reason. So, two weeks ago, I got what I see as good reason -- my / partition was suddenly unavailable after a zen update. fsck.reiser brought everything back, but that's what finally made install 10.2 (which everyone is saying is much better than 10.1 (my experince agrees). So, when it offered to format the /, /var, and /home partitions, I let it do / and /var. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse
Carlos E. R. wrote: The Monday 2006-12-25 at 01:14 -0500, John E. Perry wrote: Just two problems: first, I took others' advice again to switch from Reiser to ext3fs, You choose that advice instead of the advice to the contrary. Yes. Practically no one gave an unqualified yes to reiser3. The best I saw was don't change without reason. I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in Reiser don't come to my system. What bugs? Whatever it is that causes partitions to collapse occasionally. You wouldn't call that a bug? -- John Perry Embedded Electronics (757)813-6109 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse
Anders Norrbring wrote: Carlos E. R. wrote: ... What bugs? My highly unqualified guess would be the bugs in reiser4, which isn't a part of any respected distribution anyway.. :) My (at least equally unqualified guess) is the bugs in reiser3 that cause occasional partition corruption. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse
James Knott wrote: John E. Perry wrote: Just two problems: first, I took others' advice again to switch from Reiser to ext3fs, but my home directory is too big to get onto cd's or dvd's, so I now have a system based on ext3fs except for the /home directory, which is still Reiser. I'm digging through the home directories so I can divide it onto several dvds, but it's going to take a while. Since you're blowing away most of the system anyway, why not just create a new ext3 partition and copy /home to it. Then, when you install the new system, just mount that ext3 partition as /home. You can use a rescue CD to create the new partition and copy /home. THat's a possibility, but I'm already nervous about monkeying with partitions that have valuable data on them. And the / crash last week reinforces my nervousness. Incidentally, you may want to invest in an external USB hard drive. They're cheap these days and can hold a lot of data. I've got one here that's 160 GB. It currently contains a couple of generations of backup from two computers. Hmm. I blew off the tiny, hyperexpensive usb drives a couple of years ago, but haven't looked at them recently. That could work well. I had been reading up on nfs, thinking about connecting it to my laptop and using it to back up my data. I also made a quick try to get ftp working, but didn't succeed immediately, and never got back to it. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse
Carlos E. R. wrote: The Monday 2006-12-25 at 14:44 -0500, John E. Perry wrote: So, two weeks ago, I got what I see as good reason -- my / partition was suddenly unavailable after a zen update. fsck.reiser brought everything back, but that's what finally made install 10.2 (which everyone is saying is much better than 10.1 (my experince agrees). And... didn't you ever have to fsck any ext3 partition to recover from some dissaster, sucessfully I hope? No. All my linux experience has been with ext2, and all my professional experience has been with VMS, various RTOS's, MSDOS, Windows, and small standalone systems. I never had a crash that I couldn't identify as a hardware problem, and I never dug deep enough into linux to learn all the intricacies of file systems and such. I only dumped Windows two years ago because suse9.0 appeared to work well enough that I could depend upon it for my contract work. OpenOffice was the trigger -- it meant I could deal with clients chained to Windows without being chained myself. So I didn't have to get XP and Office. That's a normal thing for any filesystem. All can get corrupted - otherwise, the fsck utility would not even exist. Sure. But it's rare enough with ext2 that I never had a problem that I couldn't identify as a hardware disk crash, and several people on this list complained of mysterious reiser3 partition corruption. As I say, I didn't take them too seriously until it happened to me. -- John Perry Embedded Electronics (757)813-6109 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse
Carlos E. R. wrote: The Monday 2006-12-25 at 14:48 -0500, John E. Perry wrote: You choose that advice instead of the advice to the contrary. Yes. Practically no one gave an unqualified yes to reiser3. The best I saw was don't change without reason. I don't see any reason to change. And I would say the same to anybody using similar reasons to change from ext3 to reiser or xfs or any combination whatsoever. I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in Reiser don't come to my system. What bugs? Whatever it is that causes partitions to collapse occasionally. You wouldn't call that a bug? No. If it were a bug, you would be reporting it to bugzilla to have it solved. If I had something worthwhile to say, probably. Who to I say my root partition suddenly became unavailable, and I had to restore it with fsck.reiser from my rescue cd, and I have no idea what the problem was? Collapse, like what? In normal use? As I said before, after one of the zen updates, I rebooted, and the root partition was corrupt. fsck.reiser from the install cd printed hundreds of lines during the two stages of repair, which I did not try to write down, and which, as far as I know, are not preserved anywhere on the system. -- John Perry Embedded Electronics (757)813-6109 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse
Carlos E. R. wrote: ... You need another computer to use ftp or nfs. An usb disk is just another internal disk on the system, but physically external. It is transparent and slower, and very handy. I'm aware of all this. The computer that has all the stuff is my desktop; the computer I want to use for backup is the new laptop (already running 10.2 with ext3 filesystems). -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse
Carlos E. R. wrote: ... Wow. And why do you not have all that on backup? Much of it on the original cd's and floppies I used to transfer it from my NASA and CEBAF computers over the years. All the truly critical stuff is backed up on new cd's. Some I never bothered to back up because I had downloaded it from the Internet. Some of it I can still find on the Net, some not. And so on. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse
Randall R Schulz wrote: ... There are also now storage appliances that implement NFS and / or SMB/CIFS (accessed via Samba from Unix / Linux systems or via the built-in file sharing from Windows systems). These are basically stand-alone boxes with disks (often RAID arrays), a simple server computer and an Ethernet connection. Be nice if I could afford it. A semi-employed electronics engineer 60+ years old has to watch his spending pretty carefully between contracts. ...Plus, I'd like to consolidate what is at the moment a very fragmented on-line library of technical papers, podcasts, ripped CDs, software downloads and other miscellany. Exactly what I'm facing. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse
Randall R Schulz wrote: ... Do I understand that you want to back up _to_ a laptop? That seems rather odd. First of all, the disk in a laptop is far more likely to fail than one in a desktop system. ... Again, I'm aware of all your objections. The laptop is a _new_ laptop, with a 120G disk; /home is 80G; the backup is temporary until I can get the desktop reformatted. Also, the laptop has a dvd writer, which the (5-year-old) desktop doesn't. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Goodbye to suse
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... And to sum up once again ( I guess repetitition does nothing for some people) DO NOT UPGRADE that way.. create a separate /home area which you almost never will have to touch again. And then install every new version you get onto a clean drive. It weeds out the [EMAIL PROTECTED] you install just fooling around. I can vouch for this advice. I did this a couple of years ago, and every update since 9.2 has left my home directory intact and fully usable. Just two problems: first, I took others' advice again to switch from Reiser to ext3fs, but my home directory is too big to get onto cd's or dvd's, so I now have a system based on ext3fs except for the /home directory, which is still Reiser. I'm digging through the home directories so I can divide it onto several dvds, but it's going to take a while. Second, I keep finding stuff I really don't want to dump, even though I haven't looked at it in years. And may never look at again. So, converting my home partition over to ext3fs may take a long time, if I ever done. I just hope the deep bugs on this list keep talking about in Reiser don't come to my system. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] unable to access website after 10.2 install
Joe Morris (NTM) wrote: John Andersen wrote: ... Is it an arch problem? My 10.2 here at home (x86_64) cannot reach this site either, BUT my 10.2 machine at work, which is i386, did work. I would assume Mark's Thinkpad is an i386 arch as well, and John you mentioned yours was x86_64, so the apparent pattern that I am beginning to see is not a 10.2 problem but a 10.2 x86_64 problem. suse 10.2 x86_64, Rhine II: can't reach www.marymount.edu suse 10.2 Intel Core Duo, Intel PRO/100 VE: can't reach www.marymount.edu Windows XP Athlon (not 64-bit), VIa 6103: www.marymount.edu comes up in fraction of a second All these are behind a Netgear RP614v2 switch/router -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] HP dv6000CTO laptop -- kde has wrong resolution
I installed 10.2 this past week, and immediately noticed that the images were too large and seemed somewhat distorted. Today I took a hard look at the display settings and I think I see why. Now I need to know how to fix it. The display adapter is correctly detected as an Intel 945GM, and all parameters make sense, including the correct monitor resolution, 1280X800 @ 24-b depth, 3d acceleration enabled. The display is correctly detected as LGPHILLIPS.., same settings as above. All this worked perfectly in 10.1 ( Looking at the KDE setup, the display is set up for 1024X768. And the only alternatives given are 800X600 and 640X480. I can find no way to fix the KDE settings. Help! -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] bittorrent clients - azureus example
Randall R Schulz wrote: ... Azureus is a mature and sophisticated program with a zillion and a half options and information displays (my favorite is the Swarm display). It's surely far more than is needed just to share files, but if you like extra fancy software, it's the bee's knees. I'm using Azureus on my desktop and ktorrent on my laptop. Azureus consistently gives my 350K+ downloads, with rarely a hitch. Often it goes to 500K+. Azureus on the laptop, when it's running XP, does the same. Ktorrent has yet to go above 50K. For the last hour, it's been in the 10K range -- obviously, it will take days to get the 10.2 dvd that way. I'm wondering -- can I stop ktorrent and start Azureus to finish it up? Running ktorrent for the past 36 hours has gotten 1.24G. I'm using ktorrent as it came under 10.1 with no modifications to configuration (just as I am with Azureus). Download speed is set to 0 (unlimited). Is there something I can do to fix ktorrent? Even if Azureus can't pick up ktorrent's chunks, it's probably worthwhile to download and start Azureus, I guess, unless someone can help fix ktorrent. And as others have mentioned, it's not exactly light on resource requirements. My desktop has 768M, my laptop has 2G of RAM. Both have 2G swap space. -- John Perry Embedded Electronics (757)813-6109 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] bittorrent clients - azureus example
John Andersen wrote: On Friday 08 December 2006 16:38, John E. Perry wrote: I'm using ktorrent as it came under 10.1 with no modifications to configuration That's your problem. The early Ktorrent versions had issues. Go to Ktorrent.org and download the source and build that. Keep it around (the source) for when you get 10.2 downloaded because the one SUSE put in there is deliberately crippled as well. Oh, well, then, I'll just use Azureus. Do you know offhand whether it will pick up where ktorrent is going to leave off? -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Re: OpenSuSE and MS-Novell deal. (moved from opensuse-amd64)
Sorry for the delay; I was out of town for the holidays. Russell Jones wrote: ... John E Perry wrote: And you, like so many others, have completely missed the point. Patent violations have nothing to do with what the patent holder puts out. They have only to do with what the user or vendor uses. I'm afraid I don't understand this. Which users? Which vendors? Anyone who uses the protected material (or what is alleged to be protected) to produce something. If Microsoft puts the patented material there, they have already approved it, and have nothing to even start a case with. If _anyone_ else does, they have a case. Even if the other person (Novell, IBM, Joe Geekster, etc.) didn't know about the patent. And they can sue not just the person who put it in there, but anyone who uses it -- although, it's not generally practical to sue Joe and you and me, so they'll sue IBM, Ubuntu, Debian, Red Hat, etc, etc. Not Novell, now, at least for the term of the agreement. Microsoft will almost certainly (unless it's all smoke-blowing, as some have guessed) start suing for patent violations of code put into OSS software by _others_. These others will have to defend their code against Microsoft's assertions. Others? Not MS or Novell? MS can bring many cases, but once a couple fail they've had it, AIUI, unless they can keep coming up with unique situations (which seems unlikely). The only way to make use of this is as a threat, making companies hope they won't be singled out. But it can only happen once or twice unless the case has merit (which it seems not to). Well, actually, each case continues until the presiding judge decides its fate (or is overruled by a superior judge). Usually, if a patent's outcome is declared in one jurisdiction, it's quick and easy to get it decided in others, especially if it's a superior court that decides it. And, of course, merit in our present corrupt court system is simply a legalese word to be played with in the court, and frequently decided in favor of the one who has the most bucks. But if Microsoft brings ten (or a hundred , or...) suits regarding different patents, each one will have to be decided independently, unless the defendant can find _compelling_ linkage between the various patents. And if Microsoft sues all the distributions, they will all have to defend themselves independently, unless they can convince a judge to unify the suits. The rest of this seems like FUD. IBM and Novell are not the only parties who make use of open source. It is possible for companies to organise. And when has a software patent violation where prior art exists stood up? Can you give an example? Of course it's FUD. But the most effective FUD is that that's based on a realistic possibility of truth. And, as we've seen in the past couple of weeks, Novell's agreement has given a possible Microsoft patent attack at least a thick veneer of realistic success. That's what has so many of us concerned, and why Novell is now so roundly reviled in the OSS community. Note that I regard Novell as one of the heroes in Microsoft's previous attack, the SCO affair. I really hope they haven't been duped fatally by Microsoft in this present affair. But I'm not very confident. I think our only hope is the prospect of IBM continuing to use its resources to defend us, and I really hope Novell pitches in and validates the good opinion I and so many others have had in the past. BTW, IANAL, etc. Just a moderately well educated observer who has followed this disgusting mess we have for a patent/court system for a number of years, with increasing dismay. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Ballmer: Linux users owe Microsoft
M Harris wrote: On Friday 17 November 2006 14:13, Peter Nikolic wrote: OpenSuse should fork and it should Retain the SuSe trademark and the Original ideals . Novell was a bad idea from day one Peter... this really is true... and I'm not being sarcastic. Linux must come from all directions--- not from a single corporation. Novell was a bad idea... because Novell is interested in money instead of being interested in OSS. Uh, guys, suse was a _commercial_ enterprise, not a community effort. Novell bought a _commercial_ company, therefore owns that _commercial_ trademark. As do a number of other _commercial_ linux vendors, who have done a great deal of good for linux. And, while it may yet turn out to have been a bad thing, that's not really clear yet. I'm not very optimistic about the Novell-Microsoft situation, myself, but please, let's understand what's really going on here, and hope for the best. -- John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
