Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
While making a few snaps around the house, the batteries crapped out. Total number of shots from when I noticed the indicator at 1/2 full = 40+ Turned off the camera for a bit, turned it on again, and the indicator was once again @ 1/2 full. Naturally, the bats can't be relied upon to fire the camera, although I mat try to suck the vary last out of them just to see if low/weak bats can cause erratic behavior and screw up the pics. However, in the future, once I see the indicator at 1/2, the bats will be replaced, although I may use the run down ones for unimportant shots, like eBay items, QD stuff around the house, etc., where if the bats go out completely nothing's been lost and some fresh bats can easily be popped in. Paul Stenquist said: Yep, that's for sure. But seriously, once the battery indicator goes to half, you're basically finished. You won't get another thirty or forty shots. And unless you're shooting junk, why risk losing a special moment to a failed battery? Replace them before they fail. Paul The camera was weird from the day it arrived here ;-)) Shel [Original Message] From: Paul Stenquist The batteries are goners. Replace them before the camera goes weirdo on you g. Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
On 3 Nov 2005 at 22:24, Rob Smith wrote: I believe this is because NiMh batteries have low internal resistance. Thus they are able to provide high (or at least sufficient) current to meet the cameras operational needs until they have discharged sufficiently to reach the voltage threshold at which the camera ceases to function. This characteristic means that camera operation is normally reliable until cutoff threshold is reached, in fact you might criticise the D for having rather too high a cutoff threshold and hence 'wasting' battery capacity. True, and according to the spec sheets for my Sanyo 2500mAh AA Ni-MH batteries it pays to ensure that they go through full charge/discharge cycles. Contrary to marketing blurb Ni-MH batteries don't provide an optimum discharge curve or internal resistance unless they are properly exercised :-) The following document is a very informative and interesting read: http://www.sanyo.com/batteries/pdfs/twicellT_E.pdf Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
On Nov 2, 2005, at 11:55 PM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: There were some messages a while back about the battery charge warning indicator on the istDS. Didn't have the camera then so I didn't pay much attention. Earlier today I noticed the indicator was at half. Turned off the camera for a while as I wasn't snapping any pix, about 1/2 hour later turned the camera on again, indicator was at full. After a few snaps it was at 1/2 again. Does this behavior suggest that it's time to replace the bats, or something else. They're getting used up. Be sure to have a spare set of batteries in your bag, you'll need them soon. Run what's in there until they go dry. One of the things I was doing today was experimenting with trap focus. I caught a few pix of cars coming and going. Godfrey, I think when we were trying out the technique on Friday you were wondering if a car could be caught with the technique. It seems that it can. :-) Oh, I knew it could catch a car in motion. The question is just how fast it will make the exposure once the car enters the trap focus zone. Godfrey
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
The batteries are goners. Replace them before the camera goes weirdo on you g. Paul On Nov 3, 2005, at 2:55 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: There were some messages a while back about the battery charge warning indicator on the istDS. Didn't have the camera then so I didn't pay much attention. Earlier today I noticed the indicator was at half. Turned off the camera for a while as I wasn't snapping any pix, about 1/2 hour later turned the camera on again, indicator was at full. After a few snaps it was at 1/2 again. Does this behavior suggest that it's time to replace the bats, or something else. One of the things I was doing today was experimenting with trap focus. I caught a few pix of cars coming and going. Godfrey, I think when we were trying out the technique on Friday you were wondering if a car could be caught with the technique. It seems that it can. Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 23:55:44 -0800, Shel Belinkoff wrote: Earlier today I noticed the indicator was at half. Turned off the camera for a while as I wasn't snapping any pix, about 1/2 hour later turned the camera on again, indicator was at full. After a few snaps it was at 1/2 again. It means the charge in the batteries is waning. If they're rechargeable, I'd go ahead and recharge them. If not, I'd keep using them until (a) the camera acts wonky or (b) I have to shoot something I can't miss. [...] wondering if a car could be caught with [trap focus]. It seems that it can. It surely can. I've used a number of lenses that way with my ZX-5 and MZ-S. I haven't tried it with the *ist D yet. The thing to beware of is that the point of focus often isn't what you want it to be due, I think, to the lock time (the time between the camera realizing something has come into focus and the actual tripping of the shutter). Often, I find that the main plane of focus will be a little behind where the car came into focus, measured in the direction of the car's travel. With the MZ-S and *ist D there are enough focal points in the AF system that you should be able to select one that will get the actual plane of focus about where you want it. TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
Full = 51% to 100% full Half = 1% to 50% full Zero = SOL - make sure to carry some spares! Regards, Bob S. On 11/3/05, Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There were some messages a while back about the battery charge warning indicator on the istDS. Didn't have the camera then so I didn't pay much attention. Earlier today I noticed the indicator was at half. Turned off the camera for a while as I wasn't snapping any pix, about 1/2 hour later turned the camera on again, indicator was at full. After a few snaps it was at 1/2 again. Does this behavior suggest that it's time to replace the bats, or something else. One of the things I was doing today was experimenting with trap focus. I caught a few pix of cars coming and going. Godfrey, I think when we were trying out the technique on Friday you were wondering if a car could be caught with the technique. It seems that it can. Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
Only if you're using an A lens. Doug Franklin wrote: On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 23:55:44 -0800, Shel Belinkoff wrote: Earlier today I noticed the indicator was at half. Turned off the camera for a while as I wasn't snapping any pix, about 1/2 hour later turned the camera on again, indicator was at full. After a few snaps it was at 1/2 again. It means the charge in the batteries is waning. If they're rechargeable, I'd go ahead and recharge them. If not, I'd keep using them until (a) the camera acts wonky or (b) I have to shoot something I can't miss. [...] wondering if a car could be caught with [trap focus]. It seems that it can. It surely can. I've used a number of lenses that way with my ZX-5 and MZ-S. I haven't tried it with the *ist D yet. The thing to beware of is that the point of focus often isn't what you want it to be due, I think, to the lock time (the time between the camera realizing something has come into focus and the actual tripping of the shutter). Often, I find that the main plane of focus will be a little behind where the car came into focus, measured in the direction of the car's travel. With the MZ-S and *ist D there are enough focal points in the AF system that you should be able to select one that will get the actual plane of focus about where you want it. TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
I thought about the focal plane of focus, and tried shooting with more and less DOF to see what resulted. Also used faster/slower shutter speeds. Didn't think about trying the matrix metering. However, that doesn't work on all lenses, iirc. Only the auto focus lenses, right? What about regular A lenses the M and K and other manual lenses can't use that at all. Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax [Original Message] From: Doug Franklin [...] wondering if a car could be caught with [trap focus]. It seems that it can. It surely can. I've used a number of lenses that way with my ZX-5 and MZ-S. I haven't tried it with the *ist D yet. The thing to beware of is that the point of focus often isn't what you want it to be due, I think, to the lock time (the time between the camera realizing something has come into focus and the actual tripping of the shutter). Often, I find that the main plane of focus will be a little behind where the car came into focus, measured in the direction of the car's travel. With the MZ-S and *ist D there are enough focal points in the AF system that you should be able to select one that will get the actual plane of focus about where you want it. TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
Thanks Bob ... I'll be sure to carry some spares. I have a set, by my mind frame hasn't completely adjusted to this battery business having not used a camera that needed them for years, so I keep forgetting to put them in the camera bag. Today will be the day for that ... ;-)) Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax [Original Message] From: Bob Sullivan Full = 51% to 100% full Half = 1% to 50% full Zero = SOL - make sure to carry some spares! On 11/3/05, Shel Belinkoff wrote: Earlier today I noticed the indicator was at half. Turned off the camera for a while as I wasn't snapping any pix, about 1/2 hour later turned the camera on again, indicator was at full. After a few snaps it was at 1/2 again. Does this behavior suggest that it's time to replace the bats, or something else.
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
The camera was weird from the day it arrived here ;-)) Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax [Original Message] From: Paul Stenquist The batteries are goners. Replace them before the camera goes weirdo on you g.
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
Hi, Running them (at least this set) until they go dry seems like a good idea. That way I'll better know the limits of the batteries and what to expect from the indicator. As long as spares are in the bag, all should be well. As suggested in another message, for something important it might be a good idea to switch the bats before the camera goes wonky. Tks! Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax [Original Message] From: Godfrey DiGiorgi Does this behavior suggest that it's time to replace the bats, or something else. They're getting used up. Be sure to have a spare set of batteries in your bag, you'll need them soon. Run what's in there until they go dry.
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
Yep, that's for sure. But seriously, once the battery indicator goes to half, you're basically finished. You won't get another thirty or forty shots. And unless you're shooting junk, why risk losing a special moment to a failed battery? Replace them before they fail. Paul The camera was weird from the day it arrived here ;-)) Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax [Original Message] From: Paul Stenquist The batteries are goners. Replace them before the camera goes weirdo on you g.
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
If you're using Lithium disposables, it's most economical to simply keep going with them until they stop powering the camera unless you're in the middle of an important shooting session and time to change batteries is scant. Then, pull them, put fresh ones in, and replace the nearly exhausted ones for the last bits of energy from them when things aren't so hectic. NiMH cells get somewhat unstable when near to exhausted so I usually pull them for recharging when I see the indicator fluctuating a lot. These comments are in reference to the DS model. I am not sure that the D responds in the same manner. Godfrey On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:16 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: Running them (at least this set) until they go dry seems like a good idea. That way I'll better know the limits of the batteries and what to expect from the indicator. As long as spares are in the bag, all should be well. As suggested in another message, for something important it might be a good idea to switch the bats before the camera goes wonky. Tks! [Original Message] From: Godfrey DiGiorgi Does this behavior suggest that it's time to replace the bats, or something else. They're getting used up. Be sure to have a spare set of batteries in your bag, you'll need them soon. Run what's in there until they go dry.
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
With my DS and a set of CRV3 Lithiums, I get about 200-300 exposures once the indicator hits the half-charge point. That's a lot of exposures to waste if you're paying $15 for a set of batteries. Godfrey On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:23 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep, that's for sure. But seriously, once the battery indicator goes to half, you're basically finished. You won't get another thirty or forty shots. And unless you're shooting junk, why risk losing a special moment to a failed battery? Replace them before they fail. Paul The camera was weird from the day it arrived here ;-)) Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax [Original Message] From: Paul Stenquist The batteries are goners. Replace them before the camera goes weirdo on you g.
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
I am ... and shall probably continue using them well into the (foreseeable) future. Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax [Original Message] From: Godfrey DiGiorgi If you're using Lithium disposables, it's most economical to simply keep going with them until they stop powering the camera unless you're in the middle of an important shooting session and time to change batteries is scant.
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
Hi Paul, At least with this set, I'm going to run 'em until the camera craps out or starts to behave in a strange manner. At least that way I'll have a better idea of what to expect, and since I'm going to be around the house for the next couple of days, there won't be an important pix made, plus a spare set of bats is handy. Seems like a perfect time to experiment and learn the limitations of the camera. Thus far, since the 1/2 full indication was observed, the camera has made 20 good shots. If I were going out with some serious shooting in mind, replacing them now would make sense, but then I'd put the old bats back into the camera just to test the limits. Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax [Original Message] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Battery Behavior - istDS Yep, that's for sure. But seriously, once the battery indicator goes to half, you're basically finished. You won't get another thirty or forty shots. And unless you're shooting junk, why risk losing a special moment to a failed battery? Replace them before they fail. Paul
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
I've found that I sometimes will get 200 exposures from half full lithiums. But not always. In nearly two years with the *istD, I've learned that the camera can go wonkers at any time once the battery indicator drops to the half full point. Admittedly, serious problems are rare, but they happen any time voltage is a bit down. I rarely find myself shooting anything that I don't want or need, so I'm not going to risk failure, even for an extra 200 exposure. I now use AA lithiums rather than the CRV3, since I've found the performance virtually identical. Nearly expended batteries are used to power toys, radios, or sometimes even a flash unit. Paul With my DS and a set of CRV3 Lithiums, I get about 200-300 exposures once the indicator hits the half-charge point. That's a lot of exposures to waste if you're paying $15 for a set of batteries. Godfrey On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:23 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep, that's for sure. But seriously, once the battery indicator goes to half, you're basically finished. You won't get another thirty or forty shots. And unless you're shooting junk, why risk losing a special moment to a failed battery? Replace them before they fail. Paul The camera was weird from the day it arrived here ;-)) Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax [Original Message] From: Paul Stenquist The batteries are goners. Replace them before the camera goes weirdo on you g.
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
That makes sense. I'll be interested in hearing how long those batteries last. Paul Hi Paul, At least with this set, I'm going to run 'em until the camera craps out or starts to behave in a strange manner. At least that way I'll have a better idea of what to expect, and since I'm going to be around the house for the next couple of days, there won't be an important pix made, plus a spare set of bats is handy. Seems like a perfect time to experiment and learn the limitations of the camera. Thus far, since the 1/2 full indication was observed, the camera has made 20 good shots. If I were going out with some serious shooting in mind, replacing them now would make sense, but then I'd put the old bats back into the camera just to test the limits. Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax [Original Message] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Battery Behavior - istDS Yep, that's for sure. But seriously, once the battery indicator goes to half, you're basically finished. You won't get another thirty or forty shots. And unless you're shooting junk, why risk losing a special moment to a failed battery? Replace them before they fail. Paul
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
Sounds like the D's behavior under low-voltage is quite different from the DS. All I can tell you is that I've had no problems at all, taking exposures right up to the point where the camera literally shuts down from lack of power. Godfrey On Nov 3, 2005, at 9:09 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've found that I sometimes will get 200 exposures from half full lithiums. But not always. In nearly two years with the *istD, I've learned that the camera can go wonkers at any time once the battery indicator drops to the half full point. Admittedly, serious problems are rare, but they happen any time voltage is a bit down. I rarely find myself shooting anything that I don't want or need, so I'm not going to risk failure, even for an extra 200 exposure. I now use AA lithiums rather than the CRV3, since I've found the performance virtually identical. Nearly expended batteries are used to power toys, radios, or sometimes even a flash unit.
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
I have a D and with NiHMs the behavior is quite stable, the camera works perfectly until the voltage falls low enough then it simply shuts down. The only time I've had it become wonky was in extreme cold conditions, then it behaved very strangely and then shut down, the batteries were far from exhausted after they warmed up. Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Sounds like the D's behavior under low-voltage is quite different from the DS. All I can tell you is that I've had no problems at all, taking exposures right up to the point where the camera literally shuts down from lack of power. Godfrey On Nov 3, 2005, at 9:09 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've found that I sometimes will get 200 exposures from half full lithiums. But not always. In nearly two years with the *istD, I've learned that the camera can go wonkers at any time once the battery indicator drops to the half full point. Admittedly, serious problems are rare, but they happen any time voltage is a bit down. I rarely find myself shooting anything that I don't want or need, so I'm not going to risk failure, even for an extra 200 exposure. I now use AA lithiums rather than the CRV3, since I've found the performance virtually identical. Nearly expended batteries are used to power toys, radios, or sometimes even a flash unit. -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
I have a D and with NiHMs the behavior is quite stable, the camera works perfectly until the voltage falls low enough then it simply shuts down. The only time I've had it become wonky was in extreme cold conditions, then it behaved very strangely and then shut down, the batteries were far from exhausted after they warmed up. That makes me wonder about the cold temperature performance of my NiMH's. I believe that Lithiums offer almost-as-good-as-room-temp performance when they're chilled, while many others work much more inefficiently when chilled. (I'm thinking of my own alkaline-vs-Li comparisons in LX's in the cold.) Does anyone know how NiMH's are ~supposed~ to perform in the cold? Fred
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] There were some messages a while back about the battery charge warning indicator on the istDS. Didn't have the camera then so I didn't pay much attention. Earlier today I noticed the indicator was at half. Turned off the camera for a while as I wasn't snapping any pix, about 1/2 hour later turned the camera on again, indicator was at full. After a few snaps it was at 1/2 again. Does this behavior suggest that it's time to replace the bats, or something else. Unfortunately the battery indicator on the camera only measures voltage, not actual capacity. Although we like to think that it is showing us how much charge is left it is really only measuring voltage - which gives a clue as to the amount of charge remaining, but not a very good clue unless you understand what is happening. When the battery is fully charged and under no load it produces maximum voltage. As you draw current from the battery the voltage drops. The voltage of even a fully charged battery drops significantly if you draw a heavy current (the more current you draw the more the voltage drops). Once you stop drawing current the voltage of the battery recovers and eventually reaches it's maximum voltage again. This new maximum will be a little below the original maximum because we have used some of the batteries capacity, but the temporary voltage drop when current is drawn is much greater than the voltage difference between old maximum and new maximum. The battery indicator shows 'full', 'half charged' and flashing i.e. 'nearly empty' (this is onthe D but I guess the DS is similar). Unfortunately the battery voltage doesn't change much until the battery is pretty much depleted and 'half charged' usually means about three quarters used. The voltage sensor is really dumb and doesn't know the difference between battery types so half charged may actually mean half charged, 75% depleted or 90% depleted depending on battery type. Do you remember the MX metering? It shows exposure at 1/2 stop resolution. However you actually get a 'dim glow' from adjacent indicators as the meter reading moves off the exact value indicated and hence you actually get a reading to 1/4 stop or thereabouts (maybe better). Think of the change in battery indicator as being like this. When the batteries are fully charged they stay as 'full' all the time. As they get flatter they go from 'full' to 'half' when used heavily, then back to 'full'. Later they go to 'half' with light use and back. Then Stay at 'half' without going back to 'full'. Then stay at 'half' but drop to 'flashing' under load etc. At least I think etc. I have never run mine that low. Does this matter at all? No, or at least not to me. I just recharge my NimHs before going out shooting for the day, or in the car on the way if I have forgotten. Battery life is never an issue for me and I have only seen the battery indicator go down at all when on vacations and unable to charge the batteries too easily. I'm probably going to regret saying this, but I don't even carry a spare set of batteries now, always used too but stopped the practice as redundant weight about a year ago. In fact if anyone here shoots portrait a lot and/or wants some battery capacity for the D I have one of the battery grip thingies that I got along with my replacement body and will probably never use. I got this camera and battery grip off ebay so even though I have never used it it will have seen some (I believe fairly light) use. A nice lens in exchange is always preferable to money :-) Rob.
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
From: Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] That makes me wonder about the cold temperature performance of my NiMH's. I believe that Lithiums offer almost-as-good-as-room-temp performance when they're chilled, while many others work much more inefficiently when chilled. (I'm thinking of my own alkaline-vs-Li comparisons in LX's in the cold.) Does anyone know how NiMH's are ~supposed~ to perform in the cold? They are supposed to perform pretty good. Better than NiCd or Alkaline and comparable to Li I believe. NiMh are the popular choice for mountaineering use (head torches in the cold at altitude) and work well although for extreme situations a battery pack you can keep warm is better. I use NiMh for this purpose as I won't tolerate a non rechargeable battery for reliability reasons. If I charge the batteries before use I pretty well know how long they will last, I just don't have that confidence in disposables that have been on a shelf, stored in conditions I don't know and probably partly used on another occasion. There again in this application it's my life that is potentialy at stake - not just whether I can take another few pictures or not. Rob.
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
On 3 Nov 2005 at 13:47, P. J. Alling wrote: I have a D and with NiHMs the behavior is quite stable, the camera works perfectly until the voltage falls low enough then it simply shuts down. The only time I've had it become wonky was in extreme cold conditions, then it behaved very strangely and then shut down, the batteries were far from exhausted after they warmed up. Same here, Ni-MH batteries in good condition are quite predictable and don't lead to instability in the *ist D as they approach the discharged threshold. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
From: Rob Studdert I have a D and with NiHMs the behavior is quite stable, the camera works perfectly until the voltage falls low enough then it simply shuts down. The only time I've had it become wonky was in extreme cold conditions, then it behaved very strangely and then shut down, the batteries were far from exhausted after they warmed up. Same here, Ni-MH batteries in good condition are quite predictable and don't lead to instability in the *ist D as they approach the discharged threshold. I believe this is because NiMh batteries have low internal resistance. Thus they are able to provide high (or at least sufficient) current to meet the cameras operational needs until they have discharged sufficiently to reach the voltage threshold at which the camera ceases to function. This characteristic means that camera operation is normally reliable until cutoff threshold is reached, in fact you might criticise the D for having rather too high a cutoff threshold and hence 'wasting' battery capacity. In cold conditions internal resistance of (all types of) batteries increases and battery performance decreases i.e. current is delivered less readily, thus it is entirely possible that although the voltage is high enough to register as usable to the camera 'wonky' behaviour may result as the battery can no longer deliver. Even though NiMh batteries are comparitively good in the cold - try to keep them warm. Rob.
Re: Battery Behavior - istDS
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 08:16:44 -0800, Shel Belinkoff wrote: I thought about the focal plane of focus, and tried shooting with more and less DOF to see what resulted. Also used faster/slower shutter speeds. Didn't think about trying the matrix metering. However, that doesn't work on all lenses, iirc. Only the auto focus lenses, right? What about regular A lenses the M and K and other manual lenses can't use that at all. I did it with a K 400/5.6 on the ZX-5. I've done it with the Sigma 400/5.6 APO Macro in MF mode on the MZ-S. Don't think I ever tried a pre-A lens on the MZ-S, and I haven't done trap focus with anything on the *ist D yet. TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ
Battery Behavior - istDS
There were some messages a while back about the battery charge warning indicator on the istDS. Didn't have the camera then so I didn't pay much attention. Earlier today I noticed the indicator was at half. Turned off the camera for a while as I wasn't snapping any pix, about 1/2 hour later turned the camera on again, indicator was at full. After a few snaps it was at 1/2 again. Does this behavior suggest that it's time to replace the bats, or something else. One of the things I was doing today was experimenting with trap focus. I caught a few pix of cars coming and going. Godfrey, I think when we were trying out the technique on Friday you were wondering if a car could be caught with the technique. It seems that it can. Shel You meet the nicest people with a Pentax
