Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[John Francis]

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 03:34:45PM -0500, John Sessoms wrote:
> > We've still got San Jose Camera & Video (which, come to think of it,is
> > where I bought my PZ-1p), but now they're pretty much limited to just
> > the big brands (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic & Fuji).
> 
> I have vague memories of when Pentax was one of the "big brands".

Yep. But my memories of the '70s are also vague (and getting vaguer).
But I bought my Spotmatic II (and, later, my MX and ME) back then.
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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[John Sessoms]

We've still got San Jose Camera & Video (which, come to think of it,is
where I bought my PZ-1p), but now they're pretty much limited to just
the big brands (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic & Fuji).


I have vague memories of when Pentax was one of the "big brands".



On 1/21/2022 5:31 PM, John Francis wrote:

On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 11:37:29AM -0800, Larry Colen wrote:


I don???t know how many brick and mortar camera stores there are in the Bay 
Area.  I???ve seen cameras at some of the big box electronics stores, but no 
Pentax. Keeble and Shuchat in Palo Alto which had been around for decades, with 
two shops across the street from each other went out of business a few years 
back. There seems to be a Samy's in SF.


We've still got San Jose Camera & Video (which, come to think of it, is where I 
bought my PZ-1p), but now they're pretty much limited to just the big brands (Canon, 
Nikon, Sony, Panasonic & Fuji).

Mike's Camera does have a few Bay Area branches, including one in Menlo Park. 
They offer a slightly wider selection (they include Olympus), and also some 
third-party lenses (Tamron, Sigma, ...).  But many of the items they show on 
their website are marked as 'not available in stores'.
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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Alan C]

In SA there are still several "Brick & Mortar" camera stores in the big 
cities selling mostly Canon & Nikon but no new Pentax. S/H traded-in 
Pentax products become available from time to time. Foto First are the 
Pentax distributors in SA through their Online store. They sell Canon, 
Nikon & Fuji too. Foto First also has a chain of stores throughout the 
country (formerly photo shops) specialising in photo prints, scanning & 
photobooks but hardly a camera in store. They are highly patronised by 
the growing army of street photographers!  However, the faint hearted, 
fearful of online transactions, may order cameras through their local 
branch. Stores like Game & Makro (Walmart) also sell low range Canon & 
Nikon products.


Alan C

On 21-Jan-22 09:37 PM, Larry Colen wrote:



On Jan 21, 2022, at 11:02 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:

We still have two "brick & mortar" camera stores here in Raleigh.

Neither one is a Pentax dealer, although one of them tried to make a go of it 
in the last decade - I bought both my K-3 and K-1 locally from that store.


I don’t know how many brick and mortar camera stores there are in the Bay Area. 
 I’ve seen cameras at some of the big box electronics stores, but no Pentax. 
Keeble and Shuchat in Palo Alto which had been around for decades, with two 
shops across the street from each other went out of business a few years back. 
There seems to be a Samy's in SF.

I got my first Pentax because I overheard the guy at San Jose camera talking to 
someone else about how he has one and what he likes about it.  I was leaning 
towards Nikon, he was pushing harder on Canon, but I really hated the feel of 
the low end Canon gear.  At one point, even Fry’s carried Pentax, now Fry’s is 
gone too.



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Re: Ricoh direct marketing correction on dpr

[Larry Colen]

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65855813

Ricoh/Pentax and PetaPixel false headline

PetaPixel has this headline today:

Ricoh to Stop Mass Producing Cameras, Sell Direct to Consumer Only

which they have contrived out of

https://news.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/rim_info/2022/20220120_031454.html

I want to clarify a few things, which puts the announcement in perspective:

1. The announcement is for Japanese market only. The sales pattern will change 
for Japan only. This is not an international announcement.

It then goes on in some detail correcting mistranslations.


> On Jan 20, 2022, at 5:43 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/
> 
> As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR 
> branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell through 
> their own website and branded stores.
> 
> Meanwhile Petapixel had a review of the 21/2.4 saying it’s a great lens, it’s 
> too bad that the K-1 mkII sucks.
> 
> --
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> 
> 
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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[John Francis]

On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 11:37:29AM -0800, Larry Colen wrote:
> 
> I don???t know how many brick and mortar camera stores there are in the Bay 
> Area.  I???ve seen cameras at some of the big box electronics stores, but no 
> Pentax. Keeble and Shuchat in Palo Alto which had been around for decades, 
> with two shops across the street from each other went out of business a few 
> years back. There seems to be a Samy's in SF. 

We've still got San Jose Camera & Video (which, come to think of it, is where I 
bought my PZ-1p), but now they're pretty much limited to just the big brands 
(Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic & Fuji).

Mike's Camera does have a few Bay Area branches, including one in Menlo Park. 
They offer a slightly wider selection (they include Olympus), and also some 
third-party lenses (Tamron, Sigma, ...).  But many of the items they show on 
their website are marked as 'not available in stores'.
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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[David J Brooks]

On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 2:03 PM John Sessoms  wrote:

>
> They sell plenty of Canon, Nikon & Sony (and 4/3 brands), but I only
> know one other Pentax shooter in my area and he doesn't shop the local
> "brick & mortar" stores (lives in a nearby town about 20 miles away).
>

Before they shut down the Henrys close to my house, about 15 Km away, the
manager told me that myself and one other older gentleman were pretty much
to only people coming in to look at Pentax gear to buy.

>
>
>
>
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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Larry Colen]

> On Jan 21, 2022, at 11:02 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> 
> We still have two "brick & mortar" camera stores here in Raleigh.
> 
> Neither one is a Pentax dealer, although one of them tried to make a go of it 
> in the last decade - I bought both my K-3 and K-1 locally from that store.
> 

I don’t know how many brick and mortar camera stores there are in the Bay Area. 
 I’ve seen cameras at some of the big box electronics stores, but no Pentax. 
Keeble and Shuchat in Palo Alto which had been around for decades, with two 
shops across the street from each other went out of business a few years back. 
There seems to be a Samy's in SF. 

I got my first Pentax because I overheard the guy at San Jose camera talking to 
someone else about how he has one and what he likes about it.  I was leaning 
towards Nikon, he was pushing harder on Canon, but I really hated the feel of 
the low end Canon gear.  At one point, even Fry’s carried Pentax, now Fry’s is 
gone too.  



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l...@red4est.com


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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 21.01.22 um 19:38 schrieb John Sessoms:

If you go to Target.com and search for Pentax there are "5 results":
K-70 "Body Only"
K70 w/18-135 Lens
K-3 Mark III with Battery Grip & 64GB SD card
K-3 Mark III with Cleaning Kit, Strap & 64GB SD card
Pentax Papilio II 8.5x21 Porro Prism Binoculars


Just two examples, one 70 km and the other one a 5 minute walk from
where I'm writing this:

AC-Foto, brick-and-mortar store in Aachen, Germany (population 250,000):
https://ac-foto.com/list/kameras/pentax/dslr-kameras
https://ac-foto.com/list/objektive/pentax/dslr-objektive-0

Foto Gregor, brick-and-mortar store, Cologne, Germany (population 1,000,000)
https://www.foto-gregor.de/#twn%7C%3Ftn_q=pentax

I could go on...

Ralf

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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[John Sessoms]

We still have two "brick & mortar" camera stores here in Raleigh.

Neither one is a Pentax dealer, although one of them tried to make a go 
of it in the last decade - I bought both my K-3 and K-1 locally from 
that store.


It seems like the demand wasn't there to sustain them.

They sell plenty of Canon, Nikon & Sony (and 4/3 brands), but I only 
know one other Pentax shooter in my area and he doesn't shop the local 
"brick & mortar" stores (lives in a nearby town about 20 miles away).


On 1/21/2022 1:37 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:



Rick,
It's been close to 20 years since I've looked at a Pentax camera or lens 
at a brick-and-mortar store in the US.

(That was at Adorama in 2001).

So, all 4 Pentax DSLRs I've owned (and a bunch of Pentax lenses) were 
purchased by mail, - mostly from B and Adorama.


With the proposed change (if I understand it correctly), Pentax products 
might no longer be available through B, Adorama (and Amazon).
The decrease in the number of channels lowers the competition, and that 
drives the prices up. If Ricoh own outlets will be the only source, 
there will be no big Black Friday/Cyber-Monday sales from B/Adorama, 
as those in several pre-pandemic years.


But, as Bill wrote, - Ricoh needs to change something to revive the brand.
The time will tell if they bet on the right horse.


Igor



  Rick Womer Fri, Jan 21, 2022 5:25 PM  wrote:

 From my home in Philadelphia (metro population ~1.6 million), the 
nearest Pentax dealers are B and Adorama in New York, a 2 1/2 hour 
drive away.


So, this isn’t going to make shopping I might do any less convenient.

Rick

On Fri, 21 Jan 2022, Igor PDML-StR wrote:



That's a sad news.
But, I am afraid, you missed even a worth one:
"the Pentax and GR camera brands will undergo a dramatic restructuring 
that will see mass production end".

At least, that's the interpretation of PetaPixel.

Curious about what exactly they plan, I've read the translation of the 
original Ricoh announcement.
https://news-ricoh--imaging-co-jp.translate.goog/rim_info/2022/20220120_031454.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp 



Just two interesting excerpts from there:
"PENTAX ... We will expand the range of various customization to 
further reflect the needs of our customers and provide workshop value. 
In addition, we will build a system that enables manufacturing 
together with customers from the product planning stage through 
communication through online fan meetings."


"We will shift from a sales method centered on the distribution 
network via retail stores to sales via the Internet to improve the 
efficiency of business operations. In addition to our own EC direct 
sales site, we will develop directly managed malls in major 
marketplaces to expand opportunities and places where Ricoh Imaging 
and customers can directly connect."



I am not sure what type of model they envision, but either it will be 
weird and rejected (like K-01), or it will lay down some new path that 
*might* have a chance to make Pentax great again. (no pun intended)


I hope these innovations will not affect availability and relative 
affordability of the great lenses Pentax still offers. Although, it is 
hard for me to imagine what they are going to do.


Cheers,
Igor


Larry Colen wrote on Fri, Jan 21, 2022 1:43 AM:

https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/ 



As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR 
branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell 
through their own website and branded stores.



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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[John Sessoms]

I don't see this as a very intelligent move by
Pentax. I'm afraid they'll marginalise themselves even further.


I'm afraid they've already been marginalized so much that this is a 
*desperation* move.


They were already going downhill BEFORE Hoya effed them over.


On 1/21/2022 11:11 AM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

Am 21.01.22 um 16:15 schrieb Bill:


Or, they can do all their selling direct to their customers online,
where most people are shopping anyway and drop inventories to
practically zero.


This might work in some markets but not in others. Germany still has
decent brick-and-mortar photo stores in all bigger cities, offering good
service, advice and the possibility to touch and try things in the
store. Prices there are not or only marginally higher than online.

While dealers like Foto Gregor in Cologne or AC-Foto in Aachen still
offer all other brands, I don't see this as a very intelligent move by
Pentax. I'm afraid they'll marginalise themselves even further.

Still, it's their business and they can ruin it any way they like.

Ralf

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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[John Sessoms]

If you go to Target.com and search for Pentax there are "5 results":
K-70 "Body Only"
K70 w/18-135 Lens
K-3 Mark III with Battery Grip & 64GB SD card
K-3 Mark III with Cleaning Kit, Strap & 64GB SD card
Pentax Papilio II 8.5x21 Porro Prism Binoculars

All sold and shipped by Focus Camera "a Target Plus partner"

Best Buy had nothing.

But Amazon has several K-70 & K-3 Mark III options including a K-1 Mark 
II (Only 20 left in Stock) ... and they have some lenses.


Plus a sponsored link to Ricoh ... "Shop Pentax Imaging Company".

On 1/21/2022 10:15 AM, Bill wrote:

On 1/20/2022 8:14 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

A company can't just "get someone" to sell its products.  It has to
actively promote the products and develop partnerships with retailers and
distributors.  Ricoh does that with copiers;  why can't it do that 
with its

cameras?



I suspect I misunderstood your post regarding what are they thinking.

The market has moved towards online shopping anyway, camera stores are 
on the decline, and box stores don't want to sell low volume expensive 
stuff. They are into Canon Rebels and lower, not Pentax K3 class cameras 
and higher.
The nice thing about selling online is that inventories can be kept very 
small. If Pentax were going to get themselves into Best Buy as an 
example, they would have to put close to a thousand of each model camera 
they wanted to sell, along with the same number of lenses into the 
system just to have a demo product in each store, presuming they went 
into every Best Buy store. Add to that, some inventory in each store so 
there is something for the store to sell, and it adds up to several 
thousand units just sitting hoping for a buyer.

That's an expensive gamble.
It was a necessary evil before online shopping existed.
Or, they can do all their selling direct to their customers online, 
where most people are shopping anyway and drop inventories to 
practically zero.
They can use the money they save on dead inventory to advertise heavily, 
something they will have to do for this strategy to work.


bill

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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Igor PDML-StR]

Rick,
It's been close to 20 years since I've looked at a Pentax camera or lens 
at a brick-and-mortar store in the US.

(That was at Adorama in 2001).

So, all 4 Pentax DSLRs I've owned (and a bunch of Pentax lenses) were 
purchased by mail, - mostly from B and Adorama.


With the proposed change (if I understand it correctly), Pentax 
products might no longer be available through B, Adorama (and 
Amazon).
The decrease in the number of channels lowers the competition, and that 
drives the prices up. If Ricoh own outlets will be the only source, there 
will be no big Black Friday/Cyber-Monday sales from B/Adorama, as those 
in several pre-pandemic years.


But, as Bill wrote, - Ricoh needs to change something to revive the brand.
The time will tell if they bet on the right horse.


Igor



 Rick Womer Fri, Jan 21, 2022 5:25 PM  wrote:

From my home in Philadelphia (metro population ~1.6 million), the nearest 
Pentax dealers are B and Adorama in New York, a 2 1/2 hour drive away.


So, this isn’t going to make shopping I might do any less convenient.

Rick

On Fri, 21 Jan 2022, Igor PDML-StR wrote:



That's a sad news.
But, I am afraid, you missed even a worth one:
"the Pentax and GR camera brands will undergo a dramatic restructuring that 
will see mass production end".

At least, that's the interpretation of PetaPixel.

Curious about what exactly they plan, I've read the translation of the 
original Ricoh announcement.

https://news-ricoh--imaging-co-jp.translate.goog/rim_info/2022/20220120_031454.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Just two interesting excerpts from there:
"PENTAX ... We will expand the range of various customization to further 
reflect the needs of our customers and provide workshop value. In addition, 
we will build a system that enables manufacturing together with customers 
from the product planning stage through communication through online fan 
meetings."


"We will shift from a sales method centered on the distribution network via 
retail stores to sales via the Internet to improve the efficiency of business 
operations. In addition to our own EC direct sales site, we will develop 
directly managed malls in major marketplaces to expand opportunities and 
places where Ricoh Imaging and customers can directly connect."



I am not sure what type of model they envision, but either it will be weird 
and rejected (like K-01), or it will lay down some new path that *might* have 
a chance to make Pentax great again. (no pun intended)


I hope these innovations will not affect availability and relative 
affordability of the great lenses Pentax still offers. Although, it is hard 
for me to imagine what they are going to do.


Cheers,
Igor


Larry Colen wrote on Fri, Jan 21, 2022 1:43 AM:

https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/

As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR 
branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell through 
their own website and branded stores.



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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Rick Womer]

From my home in Philadelphia (metro population ~1.6 million), the nearest 
Pentax dealers are B and Adorama in New York, a 2 1/2 hour drive away.

So, this isn’t going to make shopping I might do any less convenient.

Rick

> On Jan 21, 2022, at 9:09 AM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
> 
> 
> That's a sad news.
> But, I am afraid, you missed even a worth one:
> "the Pentax and GR camera brands will undergo a dramatic restructuring that 
> will see mass production end".
> At least, that's the interpretation of PetaPixel.
> 
> Curious about what exactly they plan, I've read the translation of the 
> original Ricoh announcement.
> https://news-ricoh--imaging-co-jp.translate.goog/rim_info/2022/20220120_031454.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
> 
> Just two interesting excerpts from there:
> "PENTAX ... We will expand the range of various customization to further 
> reflect the needs of our customers and provide workshop value. In addition, 
> we will build a system that enables manufacturing together with customers 
> from the product planning stage through communication through online fan 
> meetings."
> 
> "We will shift from a sales method centered on the distribution network via 
> retail stores to sales via the Internet to improve the efficiency of business 
> operations. In addition to our own EC direct sales site, we will develop 
> directly managed malls in major marketplaces to expand opportunities and 
> places where Ricoh Imaging and customers can directly connect."
> 
> 
> I am not sure what type of model they envision, but either it will be weird 
> and rejected (like K-01), or it will lay down some new path that *might* have 
> a chance to make Pentax great again. (no pun intended)
> 
> I hope these innovations will not affect availability and relative 
> affordability of the great lenses Pentax still offers. Although, it is hard 
> for me to imagine what they are going to do.
> 
> Cheers,
> Igor
> 
> 
> Larry Colen wrote on Fri, Jan 21, 2022 1:43 AM:
> 
> https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/
> 
> As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR 
> branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell through 
> their own website and branded stores.
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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Henk Terhell]

Perhaps Ricoh sees a future in selling more expensive customized models
with a variety of themes, designs and colors but with the same machine
inside.
This would be similar to what Casio is doing with their G-shock watches,
likely being under pressure due to the smart watch revolution.
Leica has been following such marketing strategy as well
to a limited extent.

Henk

Op vr 21 jan. 2022 om 02:43 schreef Larry Colen :

>
> https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/
>
> As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR
> branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell through
> their own website and branded stores.
>
> Meanwhile Petapixel had a review of the 21/2.4 saying it’s a great lens,
> it’s too bad that the K-1 mkII sucks.
>
> --
> Larry Colen
> l...@red4est.com
>
>
> --
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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Bill]

On 1/21/2022 10:11 AM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

Am 21.01.22 um 16:15 schrieb Bill:


Or, they can do all their selling direct to their customers online,
where most people are shopping anyway and drop inventories to
practically zero.


This might work in some markets but not in others. Germany still has
decent brick-and-mortar photo stores in all bigger cities, offering good
service, advice and the possibility to touch and try things in the
store. Prices there are not or only marginally higher than online.

While dealers like Foto Gregor in Cologne or AC-Foto in Aachen still
offer all other brands, I don't see this as a very intelligent move by
Pentax. I'm afraid they'll marginalise themselves even further.

Still, it's their business and they can ruin it any way they like.



Germany might be a bit of an outlier. In Canada, we are probably down to 
under a hundred camera stores total for the entire country (land mass 
over 27x that of Germany)

Much of the world now does the bulk of their shopping online.
Sometimes cost cutting doesn't make sense, sometimes it does. Having 
literally millions of dollars tied up in dead inventory, which is what 
happens with demo products and inventory that may or may not sell 
sitting on a store shelf is something that may not make sense.
Everyone has an opinion, I expect the wonks at Ricoh are looking at the 
bigger picture. You may think they are ruining their business, but then, 
you aren't running a camera company.


bill
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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 21.01.22 um 16:15 schrieb Bill:


Or, they can do all their selling direct to their customers online,
where most people are shopping anyway and drop inventories to
practically zero.


This might work in some markets but not in others. Germany still has
decent brick-and-mortar photo stores in all bigger cities, offering good
service, advice and the possibility to touch and try things in the
store. Prices there are not or only marginally higher than online.

While dealers like Foto Gregor in Cologne or AC-Foto in Aachen still
offer all other brands, I don't see this as a very intelligent move by
Pentax. I'm afraid they'll marginalise themselves even further.

Still, it's their business and they can ruin it any way they like.

Ralf

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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[David J Brooks]

Henrys up here lists all Pentax gear other then the 55-300 as special order
only

Dave B

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:43 PM Larry Colen  wrote:

>
> https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/
>
> As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR
> branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell through
> their own website and branded stores.
>
> Meanwhile Petapixel had a review of the 21/2.4 saying it’s a great lens,
> it’s too bad that the K-1 mkII sucks.
>
> --
> Larry Colen
> l...@red4est.com
>
>
> --
> %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.



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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Bill]

On 1/20/2022 8:14 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

A company can't just "get someone" to sell its products.  It has to
actively promote the products and develop partnerships with retailers and
distributors.  Ricoh does that with copiers;  why can't it do that with its
cameras?



I suspect I misunderstood your post regarding what are they thinking.

The market has moved towards online shopping anyway, camera stores are 
on the decline, and box stores don't want to sell low volume expensive 
stuff. They are into Canon Rebels and lower, not Pentax K3 class cameras 
and higher.
The nice thing about selling online is that inventories can be kept very 
small. If Pentax were going to get themselves into Best Buy as an 
example, they would have to put close to a thousand of each model camera 
they wanted to sell, along with the same number of lenses into the 
system just to have a demo product in each store, presuming they went 
into every Best Buy store. Add to that, some inventory in each store so 
there is something for the store to sell, and it adds up to several 
thousand units just sitting hoping for a buyer.

That's an expensive gamble.
It was a necessary evil before online shopping existed.
Or, they can do all their selling direct to their customers online, 
where most people are shopping anyway and drop inventories to 
practically zero.
They can use the money they save on dead inventory to advertise heavily, 
something they will have to do for this strategy to work.


bill

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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Igor PDML-StR]

That's a sad news.
But, I am afraid, you missed even a worth one:
"the Pentax and GR camera brands will undergo a dramatic restructuring 
that will see mass production end".

At least, that's the interpretation of PetaPixel.

Curious about what exactly they plan, I've read the translation of the 
original Ricoh announcement.

https://news-ricoh--imaging-co-jp.translate.goog/rim_info/2022/20220120_031454.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Just two interesting excerpts from there:
"PENTAX ... We will expand the range of various customization to further 
reflect the needs of our customers and provide workshop value. In 
addition, we will build a system that enables manufacturing together with 
customers from the product planning stage through communication through 
online fan meetings."


"We will shift from a sales method centered on the distribution network 
via retail stores to sales via the Internet to improve the efficiency of 
business operations. In addition to our own EC direct sales site, we will 
develop directly managed malls in major marketplaces to expand 
opportunities and places where Ricoh Imaging and customers can directly 
connect."



I am not sure what type of model they envision, but either it will be 
weird and rejected (like K-01), or it will lay down some new path that 
*might* have a chance to make Pentax great again. (no pun intended)


I hope these innovations will not affect availability and relative 
affordability of the great lenses Pentax still offers. Although, it is 
hard for me to imagine what they are going to do.


Cheers,
Igor


 Larry Colen wrote on Fri, Jan 21, 2022 1:43 AM:

https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/

As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR 
branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell 
through their own website and branded stores.

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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[John Sessoms]

I bet they're a lot more competitive in the copier market; brings in 
more profit. I suspect the camera division is struggling to make a profit.


On 1/20/2022 9:14 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

A company can't just "get someone" to sell its products.  It has to
actively promote the products and develop partnerships with retailers and
distributors.  Ricoh does that with copiers;  why can't it do that with its
cameras?

Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*
s products

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 9:08 PM Larry Colen  wrote:





On Jan 20, 2022, at 5:46 PM, Daniel J. Matyola 

wrote:


What the hell are they thinking?


Probably something along the lines of they can’t get anyone else to sell
their gear, so they might as well monopolize the whole distribution channel
themselves.





Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*



On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:44 PM Larry Colen  wrote:





https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/


As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR
branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell

through

their own website and branded stores.

Meanwhile Petapixel had a review of the 21/2.4 saying it’s a great lens,
it’s too bad that the K-1 mkII sucks.

--
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l...@red4est.com


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follow the directions.




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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[John Francis]

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 05:43:35PM -0800, Larry Colen wrote:
> https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/
> 
> As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR 
> branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell through 
> their own website and branded stores.

As best I can tell that announcement was specifically talking about the 
Japanese market.

More than anything else this sounds a lot like the way computers are sold.  
Sure, I could go to a variety of stores (online or physical) and buy an 
off-the-shelf computer, but I've hardly ever actually done that (the exception 
being a couple of ready-built systems I picked up from Tiger Direct at 
clearance prices). Most of the time I've gone to the manufacturer's web site 
(Gateway 2000, HP, Dell, ...), configured the system there, and had them ship 
it to me.

While cameras today aren't as configurable as computers have been for the last 
few decades, there have been some options (a couple of variants of an otherwise 
identical camera).  And as we see every time a new body is rumoured to be 
forthcoming, we get people posting saying what the camera must have to make it 
desirable as far as they are concerned. If Ricoh could actually offer a system 
where a camera body could be configured in a variety of ways (anti-aliasing 
and/or IR filters, sensor dimensions, pixel count, flip-out screen, screw drive 
focussing, power zoom, fastest shutter speed, ...) might they be able to do 
that and still keep the price reasonable?  I don't know.
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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Rob Studdert]

Australia may have been a testbed of sorts, there's now virtually no
Pentax to be seen at bricks mortar stores or their on-lline portals.
For some years they have been selling direct and they have an agent on
eBay that often undercuts the buy price of retailers (product is
direct shipped from the importers CRK). As a consequence they have
largely faded into obscurity here.


On Fri, 21 Jan 2022 at 12:44, Larry Colen  wrote:
>
> https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/
>
> As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR 
> branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell through 
> their own website and branded stores.
>
> Meanwhile Petapixel had a review of the 21/2.4 saying it’s a great lens, it’s 
> too bad that the K-1 mkII sucks.
>
> --
> Larry Colen
> l...@red4est.com
>
>
> --
> %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.



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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Bill]

On 1/20/2022 7:46 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

What the hell are they thinking?


Probably that the K1II is now a 6 year old camera (the K1 was announced 
in Feb 2016) and is due for a refresh.
I don't agree that the camera sucks, but it is getting a bit long in the 
tooth.


bill


Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*



On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:44 PM Larry Colen  wrote:



https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/

As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR
branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell through
their own website and branded stores.

Meanwhile Petapixel had a review of the 21/2.4 saying it’s a great lens,
it’s too bad that the K-1 mkII sucks.

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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Daniel J. Matyola]

A company can't just "get someone" to sell its products.  It has to
actively promote the products and develop partnerships with retailers and
distributors.  Ricoh does that with copiers;  why can't it do that with its
cameras?

Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*
s products

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 9:08 PM Larry Colen  wrote:

>
>
> > On Jan 20, 2022, at 5:46 PM, Daniel J. Matyola 
> wrote:
> >
> > What the hell are they thinking?
>
> Probably something along the lines of they can’t get anyone else to sell
> their gear, so they might as well monopolize the whole distribution channel
> themselves.
>
>
>
> >
> > Dan Matyola
> > *https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
> > *
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:44 PM Larry Colen  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/
> >>
> >> As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR
> >> branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell
> through
> >> their own website and branded stores.
> >>
> >> Meanwhile Petapixel had a review of the 21/2.4 saying it’s a great lens,
> >> it’s too bad that the K-1 mkII sucks.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Larry Colen
> >> l...@red4est.com
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> >> follow the directions.
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> > To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
> >
>
> --
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>
>
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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Larry Colen]

> On Jan 20, 2022, at 5:46 PM, Daniel J. Matyola  wrote:
> 
> What the hell are they thinking?

Probably something along the lines of they can’t get anyone else to sell their 
gear, so they might as well monopolize the whole distribution channel 
themselves.



> 
> Dan Matyola
> *https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
> *
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:44 PM Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/
>> 
>> As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR
>> branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell through
>> their own website and branded stores.
>> 
>> Meanwhile Petapixel had a review of the 21/2.4 saying it’s a great lens,
>> it’s too bad that the K-1 mkII sucks.
>> 
>> --
>> Larry Colen
>> l...@red4est.com
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>> follow the directions.
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> the directions.
> 

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Re: Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Daniel J. Matyola]

What the hell are they thinking?

Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*



On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:44 PM Larry Colen  wrote:

>
> https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/
>
> As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR
> branded cameras through the distribution network and will only sell through
> their own website and branded stores.
>
> Meanwhile Petapixel had a review of the 21/2.4 saying it’s a great lens,
> it’s too bad that the K-1 mkII sucks.
>
> --
> Larry Colen
> l...@red4est.com
>
>
> --
> %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
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Ricoh direct marketing cue wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth

[Larry Colen]

https://petapixel.com/2022/01/20/ricoh-to-stop-mass-producing-cameras-sell-direct-to-consumer-only/

As of April 1, 2022 (no fooling) Ricoh will stop selling Pentax and GR branded 
cameras through the distribution network and will only sell through their own 
website and branded stores.

Meanwhile Petapixel had a review of the 21/2.4 saying it’s a great lens, it’s 
too bad that the K-1 mkII sucks.

--
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l...@red4est.com


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Re: Amazon's brain dead marketing...

[Mark C]

A few months ago I bought a laptop from B Almost immediately after 
placing the order I started getting ads from B for the exact same 
laptop that I had just bought from them. The ads kept coming for weeks. 
It doesn't bother me but seemed like an inexplicable advertising strategy.


Mark


On 7/14/2021 12:57 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:

Once again Amazon proves how brain dead their marketing is...

Why it's almost Pentax level, in fact I should take back calling it 
"brain dead" as that's an insult to the brain dead.


I say this because I've just pulled the trigger on a 27" monitor sold 
under the Philips brand, not the highest resolution but 124% sRGB IPS, 
which should be a major improvement over my current monitor for color 
matching, which until the death of my last 24" monitor sat on the 
shelf as a backup.


Within hours, actually less than two hours, of ordering the new 
monitor, I get an email from Woot, a wholly owned subsidiary of Amazon 
for what?  Why a 27" monitor of course, for more money, with a much 
narrower color gamut.


What the hell do they think I'm going to do buy another of them? If I 
were going to do that I'd get a second of the same model.


By the way if anyone is looking for a real budget photo monitor this 
one looks pretty good.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CLMDH3K/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8=1 



I'll know better when I get it, but for now...


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Re: Amazon's brain dead marketing...

[John]

On 7/14/2021 12:57:28, P. J. Alling wrote:

Once again Amazon proves how brain dead their marketing is...

Why it's almost Pentax level, in fact I should take back calling it "brain dead" 
as that's an insult to the brain dead.


I say this because I've just pulled the trigger on a 27" monitor sold under the 
Philips brand, not the highest resolution but 124% sRGB IPS, which should be a 
major improvement over my current monitor for color matching, which until the 
death of my last 24" monitor sat on the shelf as a backup.


Within hours, actually less than two hours, of ordering the new monitor, I get 
an email from Woot, a wholly owned subsidiary of Amazon for what? Why a 27" 
monitor of course, for more money, with a much narrower color gamut.


What the hell do they think I'm going to do buy another of them?   If I were 
going to do that I'd get a second of the same model.


By the way if anyone is looking for a real budget photo monitor this one looks 
pretty good.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CLMDH3K/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8=1 



I'll know better when I get it, but for now...



I bought a couple of these from Costco a couple of years back, on sale, $300, 
Limit 4 ... I could only afford two, but the price was too good to pass up for a 
32" 4K monitor.


https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-32UK50T-W-4k-uhd-led-monitor

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Re: Amazon's brain dead marketing...

[Paul Stenquist]

Product recommendations are auto-sent based on what you’ve looked at on Amazon. 
I occasionally find the recommendations helpful. I sometimes get too many but 
it doesn’t really trouble me.

Paul

> On Jul 14, 2021, at 12:56 PM, P. J. Alling  wrote:
> St on Amazon
> Once again Amazon proves how brain dead their marketing is...
> 
> Why it's almost Pentax level, in fact I should take back calling it "brain 
> dead" as that's an insult to the brain dead.
> 
> I say this because I've just pulled the trigger on a 27" monitor sold under 
> the Philips brand, not the highest resolution but 124% sRGB IPS, which should 
> be a major improvement over my current monitor for color matching, which 
> until the death of my last 24" monitor sat on the shelf as a backup.
> 
> Within hours, actually less than two hours, of ordering the new monitor, I 
> get an email from Woot, a wholly owned subsidiary of Amazon for what?  Why a 
> 27" monitor of course, for more money, with a much narrower color gamut.
> 
> What the hell do they think I'm going to do buy another of them?   If I were 
> going to do that I'd get a second of the same model.
> 
> By the way if anyone is looking for a real budget photo monitor this one 
> looks pretty good.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CLMDH3K/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8=1
> 
> I'll know better when I get it, but for now...
> 
> -- 
> America wasn't founded so that we could all be better.
> America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
>- P.J. O'Rourke
> 
> 
> -- 
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Amazon's brain dead marketing...

[P. J. Alling]

Once again Amazon proves how brain dead their marketing is...

Why it's almost Pentax level, in fact I should take back calling it 
"brain dead" as that's an insult to the brain dead.


I say this because I've just pulled the trigger on a 27" monitor sold 
under the Philips brand, not the highest resolution but 124% sRGB IPS, 
which should be a major improvement over my current monitor for color 
matching, which until the death of my last 24" monitor sat on the shelf 
as a backup.


Within hours, actually less than two hours, of ordering the new monitor, 
I get an email from Woot, a wholly owned subsidiary of Amazon for what?  
Why a 27" monitor of course, for more money, with a much narrower color 
gamut.


What the hell do they think I'm going to do buy another of them?   If I 
were going to do that I'd get a second of the same model.


By the way if anyone is looking for a real budget photo monitor this one 
looks pretty good.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CLMDH3K/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8=1

I'll know better when I get it, but for now...

--
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America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
- P.J. O'Rourke


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Re: Pentax marketing

[P. J. Alling]

Doesn't everyone?

On 11/28/2020 1:58 AM, John Francis wrote:

On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 01:18:05PM -0800, Larry Colen wrote:

If I???m in the mood to be generous, I can see that want people to understand 
that their goal is to make the act of taking photos to be fun and enjoyable, 
but just using google translate, rather than have a native speaker in the 
language of the majority of their customers is taking the shotgun they should 
have used at the skeet range and pointing it squarely at their foot.  
Wakashiro???s ???Product Stories??? might be eloquent and evocative in 
Japanese, but the translation comes across as ???we don???t care about 
performance so we???re putting all of our efforts into trivial stuff you 
don???t care about to appeal to people that would rather use an iPhone anyways.

When I read those 'product Stories", the product research question that sprang
immediately to my mind was "Do people want fire that can be fitted nasally?"



--
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Re: Pentax marketing

[John Francis]

On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 01:18:05PM -0800, Larry Colen wrote:
> If I???m in the mood to be generous, I can see that want people to understand 
> that their goal is to make the act of taking photos to be fun and enjoyable, 
> but just using google translate, rather than have a native speaker in the 
> language of the majority of their customers is taking the shotgun they should 
> have used at the skeet range and pointing it squarely at their foot.  
> Wakashiro???s ???Product Stories??? might be eloquent and evocative in 
> Japanese, but the translation comes across as ???we don???t care about 
> performance so we???re putting all of our efforts into trivial stuff you 
> don???t care about to appeal to people that would rather use an iPhone 
> anyways.

When I read those 'product Stories", the product research question that sprang
immediately to my mind was "Do people want fire that can be fitted nasally?"


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Re: Pentax marketing

[P. J. Alling]

I didn't say this in so many words, but I did intimate that Ricoh 
marketing tried to learn everything they could from Pentax marketing, 
and unfortunately did.


On 11/27/2020 4:18 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

Saw this comment on the fb Pentaxians group:

Their commitment to draining the enthusiasm for this hotly-anticipated camera 
can only be described as unswerving.

In reference to this:
https://pentaxofficial.com/en/7313/

More of the series at:
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/explore/new_aps-c_dslr/

The marketing on the K-3 iii not only misses the target, but they brought a 
suction tipped arrow to a skeet range, put it in a child’s trebuchet, 
blindfolded themselves and spun around three times before firing it.

Somebody needs to sit Wakashiro down and explain to him that nobody looking to 
buy a new camera cares, at all about where the logo is (though they *might* 
care a little that the pentaprism shell protrudes less past the mount).   When 
people talk about what they want in a new Pentax, most of it seems to be better 
autofocus, and more autofocus points.  It is commendable that they want to 
improve the user experience, but a lot of people have more than one Pentax DSLR 
and moving everything around from one model to another is constantly 
frustrating.  Calling it a K-3 when all it shares with the previous two K-3s is 
the sensor size and the name is also ridiculous.

If I’m in the mood to be generous, I can see that want people to understand 
that their goal is to make the act of taking photos to be fun and enjoyable, 
but just using google translate, rather than have a native speaker in the 
language of the majority of their customers is taking the shotgun they should 
have used at the skeet range and pointing it squarely at their foot.  
Wakashiro’s “Product Stories” might be eloquent and evocative in Japanese, but 
the translation comes across as “we don’t care about performance so we’re 
putting all of our efforts into trivial stuff you don’t care about to appeal to 
people that would rather use an iPhone anyways.

--
Larry Colen
l...@red4est.com





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idiot to use a Pentax.


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Pentax marketing

[Larry Colen]

Saw this comment on the fb Pentaxians group:

Their commitment to draining the enthusiasm for this hotly-anticipated camera 
can only be described as unswerving.

In reference to this:
https://pentaxofficial.com/en/7313/

More of the series at:
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/explore/new_aps-c_dslr/

The marketing on the K-3 iii not only misses the target, but they brought a 
suction tipped arrow to a skeet range, put it in a child’s trebuchet, 
blindfolded themselves and spun around three times before firing it. 

Somebody needs to sit Wakashiro down and explain to him that nobody looking to 
buy a new camera cares, at all about where the logo is (though they *might* 
care a little that the pentaprism shell protrudes less past the mount).   When 
people talk about what they want in a new Pentax, most of it seems to be better 
autofocus, and more autofocus points.  It is commendable that they want to 
improve the user experience, but a lot of people have more than one Pentax DSLR 
and moving everything around from one model to another is constantly 
frustrating.  Calling it a K-3 when all it shares with the previous two K-3s is 
the sensor size and the name is also ridiculous.

If I’m in the mood to be generous, I can see that want people to understand 
that their goal is to make the act of taking photos to be fun and enjoyable, 
but just using google translate, rather than have a native speaker in the 
language of the majority of their customers is taking the shotgun they should 
have used at the skeet range and pointing it squarely at their foot.  
Wakashiro’s “Product Stories” might be eloquent and evocative in Japanese, but 
the translation comes across as “we don’t care about performance so we’re 
putting all of our efforts into trivial stuff you don’t care about to appeal to 
people that would rather use an iPhone anyways.

--
Larry Colen
l...@red4est.com




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Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[Igor PDML-StR]

Thank you to all who responded! Below are a few comments.

Dan,
I am with you 99.5%. You cannot unsubscribe from what I call "junk SPAM", 
i.e. from sources with which you had no prior relation, in most cases sent 
by botnets ("dark spammers").


However, you can unsubscribe from the legitimate mailing lists.
(You can unsubscribe from PDML, but you can never leave. :-) )

I do not unsubscribe using links in e-mail messages, unless I am 100% 
sire it is from the legitimate source I know.

(I do check mail headers, etc.)
But even in those cases, most of the time I usually go to my profile on 
the merchant's website.

Adorama is one of those.
In this particular case, I checked that the link brings you to the same
profile.


John,
I [almost] always unsubscribe from the mailing lists when I create
an account with merchants and such. The only exception is when I might 
keep being subscribed for a while is some special that you get if you 
subscribe for a particular list.

(In those cases, I use an e-mail address that is different from
my other addresses.)

By the way, (you probably know that, but it might be useful to others) 
Gmail allows easy creation of such addresses.
E.g. if your Gmail address is john.some...@gmail.com (which is, btw, 
equivalent to the same without the dot: johnsome...@gmail.com),

you can use, e.g. john.someone+e...@gmail.com for your ebay account,
john.someone...@gmail.com for your B account, etc.
(All that without any hassle of creating new accounts, etc.)
This allows easy sorting of your messages, as well as blocking.



Paul,
I have a long history of mostly happy purchasing from Adorama (and 
Adoramapix), including the time when it was within a walking distance for 
me. That's why these bad acts from them were especially unpleasant.


Actually, I even had a favorite person at Adorama in-store Photo Lab, who 
had a great eye for colors when printing photos, and hands growing from 
the right place. I've always requested him to print my order, even if it 
would take an extra day. But I digress...


I estimate that in my work and hobbies, I interact with hundreds of 
vendors, websites, accounts, etc. If I were on the mailing list of each 
vendor from whom I purchased something or inquired about their products, 
my mailbox would be so cluttered, that I would be loosing important 
messages among the spam.

I know you are more tolerant to e-mail advertisement. I actually stopped
ordering from a few vendors who were notorious spammers and disregarded 
mailing list subscription etiquette/rules, even though they had very 
competitive.



Cheers,

Igor




 Paul Stenquist Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:43:25 -0800 wrote:

I’ve found Adorama to be very honest and helpful. I enjoy getting notices 
of sales an other offerings from them. I do get too much mail, but I can 
delete quickly!





On Jan 31, 2019, at 2:39 PM, John  wrote:

Also, whenever you have to "register" or "create an account" with a 
merchant to buy online, check the bottom of the screen on the page where 
you "agree to the Terms & Conditions".


There's usually a check box down there that says you agree for them to 
send you information and offers. Scroll down if you have to until you 
find it and UN-check the box before clicking the button to complete 
registration/create an account.


Scrupulous merchants will honor this. You shouldn't be doing business 
with unscrupulous merchants.


Otherwise, *Kill* *Filters* are your friend. Don't complain, just nuke 'em.

On 1/31/2019 13:37:51, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

Never, never "unsubscribe" by clicking the link for doing so contained in
the spam email.  That only lets them confirm that it is a live email
address and is being read or at least monitored.  They then sell than
information.
Instead, you can block all emails from that address.


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Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[Ken Waller]

Tell them not to let the door hit them in the ass as the leave ! 

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Daniel J. Matyola" 

Subject: Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team



MARK!

There are many Canadians here in Maui for the winter.  I am warning them
that they can expect many Americans, Brits and French to be applying for
Canadian citizenship soon.


Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:53 PM Bob W-PDML  wrote:


We don't have to put up with that sort of shit over here, we have
Europe-wide laws about it. You should apply to join the EU - I hear 
there's

a place going spare.



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Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[Daniel J. Matyola]

MARK!

There are many Canadians here in Maui for the winter.  I am warning them
that they can expect many Americans, Brits and French to be applying for
Canadian citizenship soon.


Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:53 PM Bob W-PDML  wrote:

> We don't have to put up with that sort of shit over here, we have
> Europe-wide laws about it. You should apply to join the EU - I hear there's
> a place going spare.
>
>
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the directions.

Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[Bob W-PDML]

We don't have to put up with that sort of shit over here, we have Europe-wide 
laws about it. You should apply to join the EU - I hear there's a place going 
spare.

> On 31 Jan 2019, at 18:38, Daniel J. Matyola  wrote:
> 
> Never, never "unsubscribe" by clicking the link for doing so contained in
> the spam email.  That only lets them confirm that it is a live email
> address and is being read or at least monitored.  They then sell than
> information.
> 
> Instead, you can block all emails from that address.
> 
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:53 AM Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It happened again: SPAM (aka UCE) from Adorama, despite being
>> unsubscribed.
>> 
>> With very few exceptions, with all stores and services where I have
>> accounts, I immediately unsubscribe from all their spam-lists.
>> 
>> This morning, I received a spam message from Adorama. Using the link
>> "Manage subscriptions" at the bottom of the message, I went to their
>> website and my account had the status "unsubscribed".
>> So, I called their customer service.
>> The representative who answered, told me: "You need to be unsubscribed on
>> our side too."
>> What?!
>> According to her, my preferences do not matter much.
>> 
>> I spoke with the customer service (CS) supervisor, who did not confirm
>> that there is a separate preference, but he told me that there are two
>> accounts: (he failed to explain it clearly, here is the best I could
>> get from him:) one on their end and one that I see online.
>> He assured that I am now unsubscribed, and it was probably a glitch,
>> bla-bla-bla. But he gave no clear explanation why my choice on the account
>> didn't matter, and why there was a sudden change in the subscription.
>> 
>> 
>> The problem is that it has been a recurring issue with Adorama:
>> I had already received spam from them before, despite being unsubscribed.
>> And then I unsubscribed, and the spam stopped for a while.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I have been having rather similar recurring problem with Adoramapix:
>> I started receiving spam from them in 2016, from which I
>> unsubscribed in July (2016). Then again, I started receiving spam in March
>> of 2017. I spoke with their CS manager in April of 2017, who assured me
>> that I was unsubscribed at that point again and it will stick.
>> 
>> Lo and behold, in January of 2019, I started receiving their spam again.
>> I called and spoke with the same CS manager. Unlike the Adorama manager
>> this morning, he did not mumble the nonsense about a glitch.
>> He blamed it all on their marketing department, telling me that he has no
>> control over their actions, but he made sure that I was unsubscribed again.
>> Actually, with me on the phone, he walked (presumably) to their marketing
>> department and told them: "Please make sure this address is unsubscribed."
>> But he didn't ask: "Why did this customer became subscribed again after I
>> unsubscribed him?", or better yet, "Why the hell,...?"
>> 
>> All these facts suggest that both Adorama and Adoramapix have unscrupulous
>> marketing departments that do not respect their customers.
>> I doubt it is done without the knowledge of AdoramaPix and Adorama upper
>> management.
>> 
>> I stopped using Adoramapix a while ago because of the problems I had with
>> them in July of 2016.
>> I've made many purchases from Adorama over 22-year period (the most
>> recent in December).
>> 
>> But, I have low respect for the companies who do not respect their
>> customers and their customers' preferences.
>> 
>> 
>> By the way,
>> Previously, I had a somewhat similar experience with B When I
>> complained  about that, they (Henry P. whom many PDMLers know, especially
>> Bill :-) ) were rather open about how the resubscription happens.
>> And they did eventually change their sneaky resubscription practice,
>> which I respect.
>> You can read that story from 2016 here:
>> 
>> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/106-ask-b-h-photo/326729-b-h-keeps-re-subscribing-me-e-mail-newsletters.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks for reading, and Caveat Emptor!
>> 
>> Igor
>> 
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>> follow the directions.
>> 
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> the directions.

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Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[Paul Stenquist]

I’ve found Adorama to be very honest and helpful. I enjoy getting notices of 
sales an other offerings from them. I do get too much mail, but I can delete 
quickly!


> On Jan 31, 2019, at 2:39 PM, John  wrote:
> 
> Also, whenever you have to "register" or "create an account" with a merchant 
> to buy online, check the bottom of the screen on the page where you "agree to 
> the Terms & Conditions".
> 
> There's usually a check box down there that says you agree for them to send 
> you information and offers. Scroll down if you have to until you find it and 
> UN-check the box before clicking the button to complete registration/create 
> an account.
> 
> Scrupulous merchants will honor this. You shouldn't be doing business with 
> unscrupulous merchants.
> 
> Otherwise, *Kill* *Filters* are your friend. Don't complain, just nuke 'em.
> 
> On 1/31/2019 13:37:51, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:
>> Never, never "unsubscribe" by clicking the link for doing so contained in
>> the spam email.  That only lets them confirm that it is a live email
>> address and is being read or at least monitored.  They then sell than
>> information.
>> Instead, you can block all emails from that address.
>> Dan Matyola
>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:53 AM Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It happened again: SPAM (aka UCE) from Adorama, despite being
>>> unsubscribed.
>>> 
>>> With very few exceptions, with all stores and services where I have
>>> accounts, I immediately unsubscribe from all their spam-lists.
>>> 
>>> This morning, I received a spam message from Adorama. Using the link
>>> "Manage subscriptions" at the bottom of the message, I went to their
>>> website and my account had the status "unsubscribed".
>>> So, I called their customer service.
>>> The representative who answered, told me: "You need to be unsubscribed on
>>> our side too."
>>> What?!
>>> According to her, my preferences do not matter much.
>>> 
>>> I spoke with the customer service (CS) supervisor, who did not confirm
>>> that there is a separate preference, but he told me that there are two
>>> accounts: (he failed to explain it clearly, here is the best I could
>>> get from him:) one on their end and one that I see online.
>>> He assured that I am now unsubscribed, and it was probably a glitch,
>>> bla-bla-bla. But he gave no clear explanation why my choice on the account
>>> didn't matter, and why there was a sudden change in the subscription.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The problem is that it has been a recurring issue with Adorama:
>>> I had already received spam from them before, despite being unsubscribed.
>>> And then I unsubscribed, and the spam stopped for a while.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I have been having rather similar recurring problem with Adoramapix:
>>> I started receiving spam from them in 2016, from which I
>>> unsubscribed in July (2016). Then again, I started receiving spam in March
>>> of 2017. I spoke with their CS manager in April of 2017, who assured me
>>> that I was unsubscribed at that point again and it will stick.
>>> 
>>> Lo and behold, in January of 2019, I started receiving their spam again.
>>> I called and spoke with the same CS manager. Unlike the Adorama manager
>>> this morning, he did not mumble the nonsense about a glitch.
>>> He blamed it all on their marketing department, telling me that he has no
>>> control over their actions, but he made sure that I was unsubscribed again.
>>> Actually, with me on the phone, he walked (presumably) to their marketing
>>> department and told them: "Please make sure this address is unsubscribed."
>>> But he didn't ask: "Why did this customer became subscribed again after I
>>> unsubscribed him?", or better yet, "Why the hell,...?"
>>> 
>>> All these facts suggest that both Adorama and Adoramapix have unscrupulous
>>> marketing departments that do not respect their customers.
>>> I doubt it is done without the knowledge of AdoramaPix and Adorama upper
>>> management.
>>> 
>>> I stopped using Adoramapix a while ago because of the problems I had with
>>> them in July of 2016.
>>> I've made many purchases from Adorama over 22-year period (the most
>>> recent in December).
>>> 
>>> But, I have low respect for the companies who do not r

Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[John]

Also, whenever you have to "register" or "create an account" with a merchant to 
buy online, check the bottom of the screen on the page where you "agree to the 
Terms & Conditions".


There's usually a check box down there that says you agree for them to send you 
information and offers. Scroll down if you have to until you find it and 
UN-check the box before clicking the button to complete registration/create an 
account.


Scrupulous merchants will honor this. You shouldn't be doing business with 
unscrupulous merchants.


Otherwise, *Kill* *Filters* are your friend. Don't complain, just nuke 'em.

On 1/31/2019 13:37:51, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

Never, never "unsubscribe" by clicking the link for doing so contained in
the spam email.  That only lets them confirm that it is a live email
address and is being read or at least monitored.  They then sell than
information.

Instead, you can block all emails from that address.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:53 AM Igor PDML-StR  wrote:




It happened again: SPAM (aka UCE) from Adorama, despite being
unsubscribed.

With very few exceptions, with all stores and services where I have
accounts, I immediately unsubscribe from all their spam-lists.

This morning, I received a spam message from Adorama. Using the link
"Manage subscriptions" at the bottom of the message, I went to their
website and my account had the status "unsubscribed".
So, I called their customer service.
The representative who answered, told me: "You need to be unsubscribed on
our side too."
What?!
According to her, my preferences do not matter much.

I spoke with the customer service (CS) supervisor, who did not confirm
that there is a separate preference, but he told me that there are two
accounts: (he failed to explain it clearly, here is the best I could
get from him:) one on their end and one that I see online.
He assured that I am now unsubscribed, and it was probably a glitch,
bla-bla-bla. But he gave no clear explanation why my choice on the account
didn't matter, and why there was a sudden change in the subscription.


The problem is that it has been a recurring issue with Adorama:
I had already received spam from them before, despite being unsubscribed.
And then I unsubscribed, and the spam stopped for a while.



I have been having rather similar recurring problem with Adoramapix:
I started receiving spam from them in 2016, from which I
unsubscribed in July (2016). Then again, I started receiving spam in March
of 2017. I spoke with their CS manager in April of 2017, who assured me
that I was unsubscribed at that point again and it will stick.

Lo and behold, in January of 2019, I started receiving their spam again.
I called and spoke with the same CS manager. Unlike the Adorama manager
this morning, he did not mumble the nonsense about a glitch.
He blamed it all on their marketing department, telling me that he has no
control over their actions, but he made sure that I was unsubscribed again.
Actually, with me on the phone, he walked (presumably) to their marketing
department and told them: "Please make sure this address is unsubscribed."
But he didn't ask: "Why did this customer became subscribed again after I
unsubscribed him?", or better yet, "Why the hell,...?"

All these facts suggest that both Adorama and Adoramapix have unscrupulous
marketing departments that do not respect their customers.
I doubt it is done without the knowledge of AdoramaPix and Adorama upper
management.

I stopped using Adoramapix a while ago because of the problems I had with
them in July of 2016.
I've made many purchases from Adorama over 22-year period (the most
recent in December).

But, I have low respect for the companies who do not respect their
customers and their customers' preferences.


By the way,
Previously, I had a somewhat similar experience with B When I
complained  about that, they (Henry P. whom many PDMLers know, especially
Bill :-) ) were rather open about how the resubscription happens.
And they did eventually change their sneaky resubscription practice,
which I respect.
You can read that story from 2016 here:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/106-ask-b-h-photo/326729-b-h-keeps-re-subscribing-me-e-mail-newsletters.html



Thanks for reading, and Caveat Emptor!

Igor





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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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the directions.

Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Never, never "unsubscribe" by clicking the link for doing so contained in
the spam email.  That only lets them confirm that it is a live email
address and is being read or at least monitored.  They then sell than
information.

Instead, you can block all emails from that address.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:53 AM Igor PDML-StR  wrote:

>
>
> It happened again: SPAM (aka UCE) from Adorama, despite being
> unsubscribed.
>
> With very few exceptions, with all stores and services where I have
> accounts, I immediately unsubscribe from all their spam-lists.
>
> This morning, I received a spam message from Adorama. Using the link
> "Manage subscriptions" at the bottom of the message, I went to their
> website and my account had the status "unsubscribed".
> So, I called their customer service.
> The representative who answered, told me: "You need to be unsubscribed on
> our side too."
> What?!
> According to her, my preferences do not matter much.
>
> I spoke with the customer service (CS) supervisor, who did not confirm
> that there is a separate preference, but he told me that there are two
> accounts: (he failed to explain it clearly, here is the best I could
> get from him:) one on their end and one that I see online.
> He assured that I am now unsubscribed, and it was probably a glitch,
> bla-bla-bla. But he gave no clear explanation why my choice on the account
> didn't matter, and why there was a sudden change in the subscription.
>
>
> The problem is that it has been a recurring issue with Adorama:
> I had already received spam from them before, despite being unsubscribed.
> And then I unsubscribed, and the spam stopped for a while.
>
>
>
> I have been having rather similar recurring problem with Adoramapix:
> I started receiving spam from them in 2016, from which I
> unsubscribed in July (2016). Then again, I started receiving spam in March
> of 2017. I spoke with their CS manager in April of 2017, who assured me
> that I was unsubscribed at that point again and it will stick.
>
> Lo and behold, in January of 2019, I started receiving their spam again.
> I called and spoke with the same CS manager. Unlike the Adorama manager
> this morning, he did not mumble the nonsense about a glitch.
> He blamed it all on their marketing department, telling me that he has no
> control over their actions, but he made sure that I was unsubscribed again.
> Actually, with me on the phone, he walked (presumably) to their marketing
> department and told them: "Please make sure this address is unsubscribed."
> But he didn't ask: "Why did this customer became subscribed again after I
> unsubscribed him?", or better yet, "Why the hell,...?"
>
> All these facts suggest that both Adorama and Adoramapix have unscrupulous
> marketing departments that do not respect their customers.
> I doubt it is done without the knowledge of AdoramaPix and Adorama upper
> management.
>
> I stopped using Adoramapix a while ago because of the problems I had with
> them in July of 2016.
> I've made many purchases from Adorama over 22-year period (the most
> recent in December).
>
> But, I have low respect for the companies who do not respect their
> customers and their customers' preferences.
>
>
> By the way,
> Previously, I had a somewhat similar experience with B When I
> complained  about that, they (Henry P. whom many PDMLers know, especially
> Bill :-) ) were rather open about how the resubscription happens.
> And they did eventually change their sneaky resubscription practice,
> which I respect.
> You can read that story from 2016 here:
>
> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/106-ask-b-h-photo/326729-b-h-keeps-re-subscribing-me-e-mail-newsletters.html
>
>
>
> Thanks for reading, and Caveat Emptor!
>
> Igor
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>
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the directions.

Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[Igor PDML-StR]

It happened again: SPAM (aka UCE) from Adorama, despite being 
unsubscribed.


With very few exceptions, with all stores and services where I have 
accounts, I immediately unsubscribe from all their spam-lists.


This morning, I received a spam message from Adorama. Using the link 
"Manage subscriptions" at the bottom of the message, I went to their 
website and my account had the status "unsubscribed".

So, I called their customer service.
The representative who answered, told me: "You need to be unsubscribed on 
our side too."

What?!
According to her, my preferences do not matter much.

I spoke with the customer service (CS) supervisor, who did not confirm 
that there is a separate preference, but he told me that there are two 
accounts: (he failed to explain it clearly, here is the best I could 
get from him:) one on their end and one that I see online.
He assured that I am now unsubscribed, and it was probably a glitch, 
bla-bla-bla. But he gave no clear explanation why my choice on the account 
didn't matter, and why there was a sudden change in the subscription.



The problem is that it has been a recurring issue with Adorama:
I had already received spam from them before, despite being unsubscribed.
And then I unsubscribed, and the spam stopped for a while.



I have been having rather similar recurring problem with Adoramapix:
I started receiving spam from them in 2016, from which I 
unsubscribed in July (2016). Then again, I started receiving spam in March 
of 2017. I spoke with their CS manager in April of 2017, who assured me 
that I was unsubscribed at that point again and it will stick.


Lo and behold, in January of 2019, I started receiving their spam again.
I called and spoke with the same CS manager. Unlike the Adorama manager 
this morning, he did not mumble the nonsense about a glitch.
He blamed it all on their marketing department, telling me that he has no 
control over their actions, but he made sure that I was unsubscribed again.
Actually, with me on the phone, he walked (presumably) to their marketing 
department and told them: "Please make sure this address is unsubscribed."
But he didn't ask: "Why did this customer became subscribed again after I 
unsubscribed him?", or better yet, "Why the hell,...?"


All these facts suggest that both Adorama and Adoramapix have unscrupulous
marketing departments that do not respect their customers.
I doubt it is done without the knowledge of AdoramaPix and Adorama upper 
management.


I stopped using Adoramapix a while ago because of the problems I had with 
them in July of 2016.
I've made many purchases from Adorama over 22-year period (the most 
recent in December).


But, I have low respect for the companies who do not respect their 
customers and their customers' preferences.



By the way, 
Previously, I had a somewhat similar experience with B When I 
complained  about that, they (Henry P. whom many PDMLers know, especially 
Bill :-) ) were rather open about how the resubscription happens. 
And they did eventually change their sneaky resubscription practice, 
which I respect.

You can read that story from 2016 here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/106-ask-b-h-photo/326729-b-h-keeps-re-subscribing-me-e-mail-newsletters.html



Thanks for reading, and Caveat Emptor!

Igor

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to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Amazon's amazing marketing!

[Igor PDML-StR]

John,

I Wouldn't buy anything serious (such as a lens) from the sellers with the 
rating below 95% on Amazon... maybe 90-some, if I really needed...

89% is too low.

Just in case: check Resellerratings.com for the sellers' names. Often, 
many Amazon sellers have their own store, and could be rated for those.


Regarding SMCP-FA 35mm/2.0, - I wouldn't buy that at the prices listed for 
the new ones (635, 904, 999, 1862) - those are ridiculous.


If you decide to go with that one, - drop me a line, - I have one that I 
barely used, as it got replaced in my bag quickly with the Limited.

So, I might consider selling mine.

Igor



On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 10:59 PM, John wrote:


Ok, so which one would you recommend from these selections available through
Amazon:

Pentax SMCP-FA 24mm f/2.0 AL(IF) - Used $819.99 (East Shore Medical Supply
Inc - 89% positive).
http://tinyurl.com/FA24-f2

Pentax SMCP-FA 35mm f/2.0 AL Lens with Case and Hood - 4 New; 3 used
(various sellers)
http://tinyurl.com/FA35-f2

Sigma 20mm f/1.8 EX DG RF - New? - $629.00 (Portable Guy - 99% positive)
2 new; 4 used; 1 refurbished  - the other new one is from 47th Street Photo.
http://tinyurl.com/Sigma20-f1-8

Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM Lens for Pentax  - New $899.00 (sold by Amazon.com)
http://tinyurl.com/Sigma-35-f1-4

I'm looking for a fast, wide lens that will work on the K1 full-frame.

Anyone chime in if they know anything I should be aware of *OR* BEWARE OF
about either the lenses or the sellers.



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the directions.

Re: Amazon's amazing marketing!

[Larry Colen]

John wrote:

Ok, so which one would you recommend from these selections available
through Amazon:

Pentax SMCP-FA 24mm f/2.0 AL(IF) - Used $819.99 (East Shore Medical
Supply Inc - 89% positive).
http://tinyurl.com/FA24-f2

Pentax SMCP-FA 35mm f/2.0 AL Lens with Case and Hood - 4 New; 3 used
(various sellers)
http://tinyurl.com/FA35-f2

Sigma 20mm f/1.8 EX DG RF - New? - $629.00 (Portable Guy - 99% positive)
2 new; 4 used; 1 refurbished - the other new one is from 47th Street Photo.
http://tinyurl.com/Sigma20-f1-8


I have a Sigma 20/1.8.  I like it a lot better on full frame than I did 
on APS. On APS it alternated between being brilliant and annoying. On 
the K-1 it is a much more interesting range. I now have the 15-30/2.8 
and the Samyang 24/1.4 (albeit manual focus) so it is on the list of 
lenses that I'm thinking of selling. One nice thing about it though is 
that it focuses down to 1:2 magnification, so it can be very nice for 
close flower shots when you want a fairly wide field of view of either 
the flower or the background.




Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM Lens for Pentax - New $899.00 (sold by Amazon.com)
http://tinyurl.com/Sigma-35-f1-4


This was close to the top of the list of lenses I wanted for APS.  On 
the K-1 that slot is filled with the 50/1.4.  I still want it, but it's 
not so critical.




I'm looking for a fast, wide lens that will work on the K1 full-frame.

Anyone chime in if they know anything I should be aware of *OR* BEWARE OF
about either the lenses or the sellers.

On 7/26/2016 6:03 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:

Maybe Amazon has generated the sale just for me based on my searches...

On 7/26/2016 5:29 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


Amazon is actually one of the leaders (if not THE leader) of producing
the suggestions of the "related" products (to those that you've looked
at).

It's actually one of the strategies for the search when you have only
a vague idea of the object you are trying to find (buy): you search
for something that is sort-of close. Then you look at what's related.
By clicking on the suggestions that are closer to what you are looking
for, you generate even closer suggestions.

I am not seeing any particular sale for Pentax anything on Amazon...

Igor


P.J. Alling Tue, 26 Jul 2016 13:24:08 -0700 wrote:

I remember reading about Zubaz, (pants), but had no idea what exactly
they were, so I did a search on Google...


Now Amazon keeps trying to sell them to me, at least once a week.


To keep this on topic, Amazon is also having a sale on Pentax Glass,
and Amazon has also notified me about that as well.


It seems, to me at least, that Amazon email marketing is just slightly
more focused than cold calling names out of a phone book.








--
Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc


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Re: Amazon's amazing marketing!

[Bob Sullivan]

OK, I've had the FA24/f2.0 out for several test drives on the K1.
Works fine and it's a pleasure to have wide angle back!
Regards,  Bob S.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 9:59 PM, John <sesso...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Ok, so which one would you recommend from these selections available through
> Amazon:
>
> Pentax SMCP-FA 24mm f/2.0 AL(IF) - Used $819.99 (East Shore Medical Supply
> Inc - 89% positive).
> http://tinyurl.com/FA24-f2
>
> Pentax SMCP-FA 35mm f/2.0 AL Lens with Case and Hood - 4 New; 3 used
> (various sellers)
> http://tinyurl.com/FA35-f2
>
> Sigma 20mm f/1.8 EX DG RF - New? - $629.00 (Portable Guy - 99% positive)
> 2 new; 4 used; 1 refurbished  - the other new one is from 47th Street Photo.
> http://tinyurl.com/Sigma20-f1-8
>
> Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM Lens for Pentax  - New $899.00 (sold by Amazon.com)
> http://tinyurl.com/Sigma-35-f1-4
>
> I'm looking for a fast, wide lens that will work on the K1 full-frame.
>
> Anyone chime in if they know anything I should be aware of *OR* BEWARE OF
> about either the lenses or the sellers.
>
> On 7/26/2016 6:03 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:
>>
>> Maybe Amazon has generated the sale just for me based on my searches...
>>
>> On 7/26/2016 5:29 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Amazon is actually one of the leaders (if not THE leader) of producing
>>> the suggestions of the "related" products (to those that you've looked
>>> at).
>>>
>>> It's actually one of the strategies for the search when you have only
>>> a vague idea of the object you are trying to find (buy): you search
>>> for something that is sort-of close. Then you look at what's related.
>>> By clicking on the suggestions that are closer to what you are looking
>>> for, you generate even closer suggestions.
>>>
>>> I am not seeing any particular sale for Pentax anything on Amazon...
>>>
>>> Igor
>>>
>>>
>>> P.J. Alling Tue, 26 Jul 2016 13:24:08 -0700 wrote:
>>>
>>> I remember reading about Zubaz, (pants), but had no idea what exactly
>>> they were, so I did a search on Google...
>>>
>>>
>>> Now Amazon keeps trying to sell them to me, at least once a week.
>>>
>>>
>>> To keep this on topic, Amazon is also having a sale on Pentax Glass,
>>> and Amazon has also notified me about that as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems, to me at least, that Amazon email marketing is just slightly
>>> more focused than cold calling names out of a phone book.
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>
> --
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> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
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Re: Amazon's amazing marketing!

[Zos Xavius]

47th street photo is a borderline scam operation from what i've heard. Avoid.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 10:59 PM, John <sesso...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Ok, so which one would you recommend from these selections available through
> Amazon:
>
> Pentax SMCP-FA 24mm f/2.0 AL(IF) - Used $819.99 (East Shore Medical Supply
> Inc - 89% positive).
> http://tinyurl.com/FA24-f2
>
> Pentax SMCP-FA 35mm f/2.0 AL Lens with Case and Hood - 4 New; 3 used
> (various sellers)
> http://tinyurl.com/FA35-f2
>
> Sigma 20mm f/1.8 EX DG RF - New? - $629.00 (Portable Guy - 99% positive)
> 2 new; 4 used; 1 refurbished  - the other new one is from 47th Street Photo.
> http://tinyurl.com/Sigma20-f1-8
>
> Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM Lens for Pentax  - New $899.00 (sold by Amazon.com)
> http://tinyurl.com/Sigma-35-f1-4
>
> I'm looking for a fast, wide lens that will work on the K1 full-frame.
>
> Anyone chime in if they know anything I should be aware of *OR* BEWARE OF
> about either the lenses or the sellers.
>
> On 7/26/2016 6:03 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:
>>
>> Maybe Amazon has generated the sale just for me based on my searches...
>>
>> On 7/26/2016 5:29 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Amazon is actually one of the leaders (if not THE leader) of producing
>>> the suggestions of the "related" products (to those that you've looked
>>> at).
>>>
>>> It's actually one of the strategies for the search when you have only
>>> a vague idea of the object you are trying to find (buy): you search
>>> for something that is sort-of close. Then you look at what's related.
>>> By clicking on the suggestions that are closer to what you are looking
>>> for, you generate even closer suggestions.
>>>
>>> I am not seeing any particular sale for Pentax anything on Amazon...
>>>
>>> Igor
>>>
>>>
>>> P.J. Alling Tue, 26 Jul 2016 13:24:08 -0700 wrote:
>>>
>>> I remember reading about Zubaz, (pants), but had no idea what exactly
>>> they were, so I did a search on Google...
>>>
>>>
>>> Now Amazon keeps trying to sell them to me, at least once a week.
>>>
>>>
>>> To keep this on topic, Amazon is also having a sale on Pentax Glass,
>>> and Amazon has also notified me about that as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems, to me at least, that Amazon email marketing is just slightly
>>> more focused than cold calling names out of a phone book.
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>
>
> --
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
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Re: Amazon's amazing marketing!

[Ken Waller]

FYI - B+H had a bunch  pentax stuff 'on sale'.

Kenneth Waller
h- B+H had a bunch of ttp://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "John" <sesso...@earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: Amazon's amazing marketing!


Ok, so which one would you recommend from these selections available 
through Amazon:


Pentax SMCP-FA 24mm f/2.0 AL(IF) - Used $819.99 (East Shore Medical Supply 
Inc - 89% positive).

http://tinyurl.com/FA24-f2

Pentax SMCP-FA 35mm f/2.0 AL Lens with Case and Hood - 4 New; 3 used 
(various sellers)

http://tinyurl.com/FA35-f2

Sigma 20mm f/1.8 EX DG RF - New? - $629.00 (Portable Guy - 99% positive)
2 new; 4 used; 1 refurbished  - the other new one is from 47th Street 
Photo.

http://tinyurl.com/Sigma20-f1-8

Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM Lens for Pentax  - New $899.00 (sold by Amazon.com)
http://tinyurl.com/Sigma-35-f1-4

I'm looking for a fast, wide lens that will work on the K1 full-frame.

Anyone chime in if they know anything I should be aware of *OR* BEWARE OF
about either the lenses or the sellers.

On 7/26/2016 6:03 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:

Maybe Amazon has generated the sale just for me based on my searches...

On 7/26/2016 5:29 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


Amazon is actually one of the leaders (if not THE leader) of producing
the suggestions of the "related" products (to those that you've looked
at).

It's actually one of the strategies for the search when you have only
a vague idea of the object you are trying to find (buy): you search
for something that is sort-of close. Then you look at what's related.
By clicking on the suggestions that are closer to what you are looking
for, you generate even closer suggestions.

I am not seeing any particular sale for Pentax anything on Amazon...

Igor


P.J. Alling Tue, 26 Jul 2016 13:24:08 -0700 wrote:

I remember reading about Zubaz, (pants), but had no idea what exactly
they were, so I did a search on Google...


Now Amazon keeps trying to sell them to me, at least once a week.


To keep this on topic, Amazon is also having a sale on Pentax Glass,
and Amazon has also notified me about that as well.


It seems, to me at least, that Amazon email marketing is just slightly
more focused than cold calling names out of a phone book.






--
Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
Religion - Answers we must never question.



--
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PDML@pdml.net
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to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Amazon's amazing marketing!

[John]

Ok, so which one would you recommend from these selections available 
through Amazon:


Pentax SMCP-FA 24mm f/2.0 AL(IF) - Used $819.99 (East Shore Medical 
Supply Inc - 89% positive).

http://tinyurl.com/FA24-f2

Pentax SMCP-FA 35mm f/2.0 AL Lens with Case and Hood - 4 New; 3 used 
(various sellers)

http://tinyurl.com/FA35-f2

Sigma 20mm f/1.8 EX DG RF - New? - $629.00 (Portable Guy - 99% positive)
2 new; 4 used; 1 refurbished  - the other new one is from 47th Street Photo.
http://tinyurl.com/Sigma20-f1-8

Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM Lens for Pentax  - New $899.00 (sold by Amazon.com)
http://tinyurl.com/Sigma-35-f1-4

I'm looking for a fast, wide lens that will work on the K1 full-frame.

Anyone chime in if they know anything I should be aware of *OR* BEWARE OF
about either the lenses or the sellers.

On 7/26/2016 6:03 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:

Maybe Amazon has generated the sale just for me based on my searches...

On 7/26/2016 5:29 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


Amazon is actually one of the leaders (if not THE leader) of producing
the suggestions of the "related" products (to those that you've looked
at).

It's actually one of the strategies for the search when you have only
a vague idea of the object you are trying to find (buy): you search
for something that is sort-of close. Then you look at what's related.
By clicking on the suggestions that are closer to what you are looking
for, you generate even closer suggestions.

I am not seeing any particular sale for Pentax anything on Amazon...

Igor


P.J. Alling Tue, 26 Jul 2016 13:24:08 -0700 wrote:

I remember reading about Zubaz, (pants), but had no idea what exactly
they were, so I did a search on Google...


Now Amazon keeps trying to sell them to me, at least once a week.


To keep this on topic, Amazon is also having a sale on Pentax Glass,
and Amazon has also notified me about that as well.


It seems, to me at least, that Amazon email marketing is just slightly
more focused than cold calling names out of a phone book.






--
Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
Religion - Answers we must never question.

--
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PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Amazon's amazing marketing!

[P.J. Alling]

Maybe Amazon has generated the sale just for me based on my searches...

On 7/26/2016 5:29 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


Amazon is actually one of the leaders (if not THE leader) of producing 
the suggestions of the "related" products (to those that you've looked 
at).


It's actually one of the strategies for the search when you have only 
a vague idea of the object you are trying to find (buy): you search 
for something that is sort-of close. Then you look at what's related. 
By clicking on the suggestions that are closer to what you are looking 
for, you generate even closer suggestions.


I am not seeing any particular sale for Pentax anything on Amazon...

Igor


P.J. Alling Tue, 26 Jul 2016 13:24:08 -0700 wrote:

I remember reading about Zubaz, (pants), but had no idea what exactly 
they were, so I did a search on Google...



Now Amazon keeps trying to sell them to me, at least once a week.


To keep this on topic, Amazon is also having a sale on Pentax Glass, 
and Amazon has also notified me about that as well.



It seems, to me at least, that Amazon email marketing is just slightly 
more focused than cold calling names out of a phone book.





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Re: Amazon's amazing marketing!

[Igor PDML-StR]

Amazon is actually one of the leaders (if not THE leader) of producing the 
suggestions of the "related" products (to those that you've looked at).


It's actually one of the strategies for the search when you have only a 
vague idea of the object you are trying to find (buy): you search for 
something that is sort-of close. Then you look at what's related. By 
clicking on the suggestions that are closer to what you are looking for, 
you generate even closer suggestions.


I am not seeing any particular sale for Pentax anything on Amazon...

Igor


P.J. Alling Tue, 26 Jul 2016 13:24:08 -0700 wrote:

I remember reading about Zubaz, (pants), but had no idea what exactly they 
were, so I did a search on Google...



Now Amazon keeps trying to sell them to me, at least once a week.


To keep this on topic, Amazon is also having a sale on Pentax Glass, and 
Amazon has also notified me about that as well.



It seems, to me at least, that Amazon email marketing is just slightly 
more focused than cold calling names out of a phone book.


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Amazon's amazing marketing!

[P.J. Alling]

I remember reading about Zubaz, (pants), but had no idea what exactly 
they were, so I did a search on Google...


Now Amazon keeps trying to sell them to me, at least once a week.

To keep this on topic, Amazon is also having a sale on Pentax Glass, and 
Amazon has also notified me about that as well.


It seems, to me at least, that Amazon email marketing is just slightly 
more focused than cold calling names out of a phone book.


--
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immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


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Re: Ricoh marketing

[Brian Walters]

Ah, now I see.  When I sent my previous reply, I didn't realise that
Fathers Day had been and gone in the USA.

Maybe the Ricoh marketing devision is actually targetting the Australian
market after all.

Cheers

Brian

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016, at 04:51 AM, Stanley Halpin wrote:
> That is a genius stroke of marketing! You’ve just passed Father’s Day,
> you are full of regrets that you didn’t gift something to your father (or
> someone else’s father) and/or that someone didn’t properly gift you. So
> bingo, think Pentax! Buy now for next year! Avoid the regrets next time!
> 
> I’ll admit, I too was (at first) somewhat baffled by their timing. 
> 
> stan
> 
> 
> > On Jun 20, 2016, at 12:19 PM, John <sesso...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > 
> > I got an email from Ricoh this morning (Monday, 20 Jun) with suggestions
> > for Father's Day gifts for the photographer dad.
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
> > Religion - Answers we must never question.
> 
> 
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Re: Ricoh marketing

[Brian Walters]

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016, at 02:19 AM, John wrote:
> I got an email from Ricoh this morning (Monday, 20 Jun) with suggestions
> for Father's Day gifts for the photographer dad.


So did I.  

They're certainly getting in early. Fathers Day downinder isn't until
September.


Cheers

Brian
> 
> 
> -- 
> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
> Religion - Answers we must never question.
> 
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Re: Ricoh marketing

[Mark Roberts]

Stanley Halpin wrote:

>That is a genius stroke of marketing! You’ve just passed Father’s Day, you are 
>full of regrets that you didn’t gift something to your father (or someone 
>else’s father) and/or that someone didn’t properly gift you. So bingo, think 
>Pentax! Buy now for next year! Avoid the regrets next time!

I'd wager that it's the company they outsourced their email marketing
to. They get a contract to deliver x number of promotions for a year,
most of which aren't timing critical, but and they generally don't
give a damn if time critical ones are late or not. They get paid (or,
more likely, have already been paid) by Pentax anyway.
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: Ricoh marketing

[Stanley Halpin]

That is a genius stroke of marketing! You’ve just passed Father’s Day, you are 
full of regrets that you didn’t gift something to your father (or someone 
else’s father) and/or that someone didn’t properly gift you. So bingo, think 
Pentax! Buy now for next year! Avoid the regrets next time!

I’ll admit, I too was (at first) somewhat baffled by their timing. 

stan


> On Jun 20, 2016, at 12:19 PM, John <sesso...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> I got an email from Ricoh this morning (Monday, 20 Jun) with suggestions
> for Father's Day gifts for the photographer dad.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
> Religion - Answers we must never question.


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Re: Ricoh marketing

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I thought that was "Hide the light under a basket, put the basket in a remote field, 
and wait for a customer to stumble over it on a dark night"?

G

... "Ouch! damn thing in the middle of the field. Hey, nice flashlight!" ... 



On Jun 20, 2016, at 09:30 AM, "P.J. Alling" <webstertwenty...@gmail.com> wrote:

So Ricoh actually has a marketing division. I had often wondered. I 
thought they were following in Pentax's fine tradition of hiding their 
light under a basket and expecting the world to beat a path to their door.


On 6/20/2016 12:19 PM, John wrote:
I got an email from Ricoh this morning (Monday, 20 Jun) with suggestions
for Father's Day gifts for the photographer dad.

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Re: Ricoh marketing

[P.J. Alling]

So Ricoh actually has a marketing division.  I had often wondered.  I 
thought they were following in Pentax's fine tradition of hiding their 
light under a basket and expecting the world to beat a path to their door.


On 6/20/2016 12:19 PM, John wrote:

I got an email from Ricoh this morning (Monday, 20 Jun) with suggestions
for Father's Day gifts for the photographer dad.





--
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immortality through not dying.
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Ricoh marketing

[John]

I got an email from Ricoh this morning (Monday, 20 Jun) with suggestions
for Father's Day gifts for the photographer dad.


--
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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: The marketing ploy of 4k video in new (Ricoh) cameras

[Igor PDML-StR]

Bruce,

I am glad that it was helpful to you, even if such an indirect way.
:-)
I had seen a more detailed article earlier, probably in 2014. That was 
more technical, comparing more details, and essentially showing that 4k is 
mostly good for still images as opposed to the action videos.
I couldn't find that link today, but AFAIR, the conclusion was that 
doubling the refresh rate was a better improvement for a video than 
going 1080p -> 4K.


Cheers,

Igor

PS. I just read the updates on the older story on the topic of 4k TV by 
the same auhtor:

http://www.cnet.com/news/why-ultra-hd-4k-tvs-are-still-stupid/
I think those updates are somewhat indicative of how opinions of the 
"experts" can change with time.




 Bruce Walker Fri, 01 Apr 2016 10:31:55 -0700 wrote:

Thanks for that link, Igor. I'm idly considering upgrading my
projector and I wasn't up on these specmanship games going on. Now I
am. :)



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Re: The marketing ploy of 4k video in new (Ricoh) cameras

[Bruce Walker]

Thanks for that link, Igor. I'm idly considering upgrading my
projector and I wasn't up on these specmanship games going on. Now I
am. :)


On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Igor PDML-StR <pdml...@komkon.org> wrote:
>
>
> As many other PDMLers, I just received the spam message from Ricoh about the
> new camera that produces "4k videos", WG-M2.
> And that's a big "selling point".
> (And in a way, it's an interesting camera, in part due to it's wide-angle
> lens...)
>
> What I am surprised is that it offers only 30 fps at 4k resolution (although
> 60 fps at 1080p).
> I am guessing that the bottleneck might be in the writing to the card part
> (on the CPU that is handling all that).
>
> And it is known about the refresh rate playing much bigger role in the
> clarity of the video compared to the number of pixels.
> See, e.g. here:
> http://www.cnet.com/news/ultra-hd-4k-tv-refresh-rates/
>
> Aah, those marketing ploys...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Igor
>
>
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The marketing ploy of 4k video in new (Ricoh) cameras

[Igor PDML-StR]

As many other PDMLers, I just received the spam message from Ricoh about 
the new camera that produces "4k videos", WG-M2.

And that's a big "selling point".
(And in a way, it's an interesting camera, in part due to it's wide-angle 
lens...)


What I am surprised is that it offers only 30 fps at 4k resolution 
(although 60 fps at 1080p).
I am guessing that the bottleneck might be in the writing to the card part 
(on the CPU that is handling all that).


And it is known about the refresh rate playing much bigger role 
in the clarity of the video compared to the number of pixels.

See, e.g. here:
http://www.cnet.com/news/ultra-hd-4k-tv-refresh-rates/

Aah, those marketing ploys...

Cheers,

Igor


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Re: Pentax marketing: Really crappy sample images of Limited lenses

[Rick Womer]

What is this word you say... marketing???
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 8:36 AM, P.J. Alling <webstertwenty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So what you're saying is that Ricoh is following the fine tradition of
> Pentax marketing.
>
> On 1/4/2016 11:59 PM, Darren Addy wrote:
>>
>> I preface this by saying that if I had to choose between a company
>> that had crappy marketing and superb engineering vs a company that had
>> superb marketing and crappy engineering I would certainly take the
>> former... but I continue to be amazed at how poor the Ricoh/Pentax
>> marketing is. Case in point:
>>
>> Here is a page with 4 Limited lenses. Take a look at the Sample Images
>> shown for each of the 4 lenses:
>> http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/products/lens_cmp2/page04.html
>> (the link goes to the 70mm f/2.4, but you can change the URL to
>> page03, page02, page01 (or simply click the link for the other lenses
>> on the page). All are uniformly BLAH.
>>
>> A better way to judge what a lens can do is to go to the Pentax Photo
>> Gallery and click the "Cameras and Lenses" link in the upper right
>> hand corner. Select the lens you want to look at (ignore the cameras,
>> unless you want to limit your search to a particular body) and click
>> the GO button.
>>
>> The images of the lenses themselves on the page are gorgeous. The
>> sample images? Not so much.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve
> immortality through not dying.
> -- Woody Allen
>
>
>
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Re: Pentax marketing: Really crappy sample images of Limited lenses

[P.J. Alling]

So what you're saying is that Ricoh is following the fine tradition of 
Pentax marketing.


On 1/4/2016 11:59 PM, Darren Addy wrote:

I preface this by saying that if I had to choose between a company
that had crappy marketing and superb engineering vs a company that had
superb marketing and crappy engineering I would certainly take the
former... but I continue to be amazed at how poor the Ricoh/Pentax
marketing is. Case in point:

Here is a page with 4 Limited lenses. Take a look at the Sample Images
shown for each of the 4 lenses:
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/products/lens_cmp2/page04.html
(the link goes to the 70mm f/2.4, but you can change the URL to
page03, page02, page01 (or simply click the link for the other lenses
on the page). All are uniformly BLAH.

A better way to judge what a lens can do is to go to the Pentax Photo
Gallery and click the "Cameras and Lenses" link in the upper right
hand corner. Select the lens you want to look at (ignore the cameras,
unless you want to limit your search to a particular body) and click
the GO button.

The images of the lenses themselves on the page are gorgeous. The
sample images? Not so much.





--
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve 
immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


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Pentax marketing: Really crappy sample images of Limited lenses

[Darren Addy]

I preface this by saying that if I had to choose between a company
that had crappy marketing and superb engineering vs a company that had
superb marketing and crappy engineering I would certainly take the
former... but I continue to be amazed at how poor the Ricoh/Pentax
marketing is. Case in point:

Here is a page with 4 Limited lenses. Take a look at the Sample Images
shown for each of the 4 lenses:
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/products/lens_cmp2/page04.html
(the link goes to the 70mm f/2.4, but you can change the URL to
page03, page02, page01 (or simply click the link for the other lenses
on the page). All are uniformly BLAH.

A better way to judge what a lens can do is to go to the Pentax Photo
Gallery and click the "Cameras and Lenses" link in the upper right
hand corner. Select the lens you want to look at (ignore the cameras,
unless you want to limit your search to a particular body) and click
the GO button.

The images of the lenses themselves on the page are gorgeous. The
sample images? Not so much.


-- 
Life is too short to put up with bad bokeh.

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Merry Christmas to Pentax marketing: 645z is #1 at DxOMark

[Bruce Walker]

This should be good for some Pentax visibility.

<< Pentax 645z medium-format digital SLR camera is now on the top of
the DxOMark camera list with the highest score of 101. >>

#2 is the Sony A7R II; #3 is the Nikon D810.  And very curiously, the
645z gets the highest score for sports photography. Wha?

http://www.dailycameranews.com/2015/12/pentax-645z-medium-format-camera-scored-101-at-dxomark/

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Re: Merry Christmas to Pentax marketing: 645z is #1 at DxOMark

[Alex Sarbu]

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> This should be good for some Pentax visibility.
>
> << Pentax 645z medium-format digital SLR camera is now on the top of
> the DxOMark camera list with the highest score of 101. >>
>
> #2 is the Sony A7R II; #3 is the Nikon D810.  And very curiously, the
> 645z gets the highest score for sports photography. Wha?
>
> http://www.dailycameranews.com/2015/12/pentax-645z-medium-format-camera-scored-101-at-dxomark/
>
> --
> -bmw

Thanks, strangely the results so far are only mentioned in the RX1R
II's review - but if you go to the Cameras Scores list the 645Z is not
there.
As for the "sports" score, it's really just high ISO.

Alex

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Re: Merry Christmas to Pentax marketing: 645z is #1 at DxOMark

[Bill]

On 12/24/2015 8:59 AM, Bruce Walker wrote:

This should be good for some Pentax visibility.

<< Pentax 645z medium-format digital SLR camera is now on the top of
the DxOMark camera list with the highest score of 101. >>

#2 is the Sony A7R II; #3 is the Nikon D810.  And very curiously, the
645z gets the highest score for sports photography. Wha?

http://www.dailycameranews.com/2015/12/pentax-645z-medium-format-camera-scored-101-at-dxomark/



DXO measures sensor performance only.

From their website:
Portrait Score is defined as the color depth performance and its unit is 
a number of bits;
Landscape Score is defined as the maximum dynamic range performance and 
its unit is an exposure value (EV);
Sports Score is defined as the low-light sensitivity performance and its 
unit is an ISO sensitivity value.


They aren't measuring the mechanical performance of the camera.

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RE: It's probably a good thing I'm not in marketing

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

They wouldn't be purchased by homosexuals but by politically correct liberals 
(but not real far left radical pinkos) so everyone knows they support their gay 
friends...

;-)

Cheers,
frank


--- Original Message ---

From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com
Sent: November 21, 2012 11/21/12
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: It's probably a good thing I'm not in marketing


If Pentax hired me to do marketing, in May, I'd release a rainbow colored Q, 
with a Q-pride advertising blitz.


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





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RE: It's probably a good thing I'm not in marketing

[Bob W]

 From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
 knarftheria...@gmail.com
 
 They wouldn't be purchased by homosexuals but by politically correct
 liberals (but not real far left radical pinkos) so everyone knows they
 support their gay friends...
 
 ;-)
 
 Cheers,
 frank
 

but as so often happens, they'd spend most of their time in the closet and
only come out once a year.

B

 
 --- Original Message ---
 
 From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com
 Sent: November 21, 2012 11/21/12
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Subject: It's probably a good thing I'm not in marketing
 
 
 If Pentax hired me to do marketing, in May, I'd release a rainbow
 colored Q, with a Q-pride advertising blitz.
 
 



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RE: It's probably a good thing I'm not in marketing

[John Sessoms]

I ain't supporting 'em; they can support themselves.

Go out and find a job just like I had to.

From: knarftheriault

They wouldn't be purchased by homosexuals but by politically correct
liberals (but not real far left radical pinkos) so everyone knows
they support their gay friends...

;-)

Cheers, frank


--- Original Message ---

From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com Sent: November 21, 2012 11/21/12
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: It's probably
a good thing I'm not in marketing


If Pentax hired me to do marketing, in May, I'd release a rainbow
colored Q, with a Q-pride advertising blitz.



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It's probably a good thing I'm not in marketing

[Larry Colen]

If Pentax hired me to do marketing, in May, I'd release a rainbow colored Q, 
with a Q-pride advertising blitz.


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





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Pentax Q: the best camera combined with the worst marketing in the history of the universe?

[Darren Addy]

 are waiting for the overdue, but promised Pentax K to Q adapter
but if it isn't announced at Photokina I don't think it is coming at
all. (And if it ever does, there will be more jeers over its price).
That one piece alone, would have potentially turned the Q into a
vehicle for selling more DFA 100mm macros (if nothing else). Yet
Pentax features nobody using the Q in these ways. In short, I think
the the Q may be the best camera that is combined with the worst
marketing in the history of the universe.


-- 
The key to seeing the world's soul, and in the process wakening one's
own, is to get over the confusion
by which we think that fact is real and imagination an illusion. It is
the other way around.

  -Thomas Moore, Original Self

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Re: Pentax Q: the best camera combined with the worst marketing in the history of the universe?

[Steven Desjardins]

 the trigger on a
 used Q kit with the normal prime f1.9 lens, and an extra battery for
 $330. I'm also getting the C to Q adapter and K to C adapters that the
 seller is offering for another $50. As was pointed out yesterday, if
 you keep your eye on Amazon Deals, it is possible to get a returned Q
 kit (all-but-new) for around $335 and that makes it a BUY
 recommendation, in my book.

 People are waiting for the overdue, but promised Pentax K to Q adapter
 but if it isn't announced at Photokina I don't think it is coming at
 all. (And if it ever does, there will be more jeers over its price).
 That one piece alone, would have potentially turned the Q into a
 vehicle for selling more DFA 100mm macros (if nothing else). Yet
 Pentax features nobody using the Q in these ways. In short, I think
 the the Q may be the best camera that is combined with the worst
 marketing in the history of the universe.


 --
 The key to seeing the world's soul, and in the process wakening one's
 own, is to get over the confusion
 by which we think that fact is real and imagination an illusion. It is
 the other way around.

   -Thomas Moore, Original Self

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Re: Pentax Q: the best camera combined with the worst marketing in the history of the universe?

[Mark Roberts]

Steven Desjardins wrote:

I always thought the lomo crowd was a good target group for this
camera. 

Ouch! The most damning comment yet!
;-)

 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: Pentax Q: the best camera combined with the worst marketing in the history of the universe?

[Steven Desjardins]

I thought it was appropriate in the context of the hipster thread. ;-)
Actually, it had lots of manual controls and it's kind of a waste on
the all automatic types.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Mark Roberts
postmas...@robertstech.com wrote:
 Steven Desjardins wrote:

I always thought the lomo crowd was a good target group for this
camera.

 Ouch! The most damning comment yet!
 ;-)


 --
 Mark Roberts - Photography  Multimedia
 www.robertstech.com





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Marketing opportunity lost

[Larry Colen]

It's really a shame that there weren't any talk like a pirate day 
specials on the K-a.


--
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OT: Translating a marketing flier

[John Sessoms]

I have created a marketing flier to post on bulletin boards around 
school so I can get customers to photograph for my portrait 
assignments this semester.


I'm offering a clothing consult, portrait session and a print up to 
12x18 to families in return for them allowing me to photograph them. I'm 
offering the family their choice of one image from the images taken 
during the session.


Additional images and services are negotiable ... i.e. if they want 
more than one print, if they want a larger print or they want the print 
matted, mounted  framed, I'm willing to provide the service. But even 
if they pay for extras, they  still get the 12x18 print for no charge.


It occurs to me, that with a large influx of Hispanic immigrants into 
central North Carolina, I will mess to much of my target market if I 
don't also have the flier translated into Spanish.


I intend to use Babel Fish to do so, but I would appreciate it if 
someone who reads, writes  speaks Spanish would proof-read the 
translated text for me to make sure there's nothing *stupid* in translation.


I'm thinking of the story about the Chevy NOVA, whose name was rendered 
no va (won't go?) in South America. Even if that story is just an 
internet legend, it's an example of the problem I wish to avoid.


Please contact me off list.

PS: I did attempt to learn Spanish during my first time in college. I 
repeated the first semester course 4 times without success, which is why 
I eventually left university without a degree. I know just enough in 
gutter Spanish to make a mortal insult.



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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[Boris Liberman]

Hey John, you just made my day - well thought through and well put too. 
I don't have FB acct either - no need nor desire.


On 1/14/2011 10:09 PM, John Sessoms wrote:

Yeah, you're right. I'm not really anti-social media. I have Flickr 
YouTube and this mailing list. PDML is social media as far as I'm
concerned, and it's the social media I chose for myself.

What bothered me:
1. Facebook itself - I don't want it. I'm fine with anyone else who
wants to use it. But, I resent it when I'm told that I'm some kind of
defective because I don't have a Facebook account.

I don't try to keep anyone else from using Facebook. Let them do what
they want to do. So why should anyone else try to force me to use
Facebook if I don't want it.

Why can't I be allowed to do what I want to do?

2. More bothersome to me is that they weren't about using Facebook
because of the value of having relationships, but for how easily it
could be manipulated to use people.

It's a marketing strategy based on deception. The presentations were all
about side-stepping Facebook's minimal controls so you could use your
friends pages to SPAM all of their friends. The value of a Facebook
friend is all calculated in how many dollars can be extracted from them.

And remember, what we're really talking about here is high school kids;
how to separate them from their money. It's not about providing value or
service, it's about scamming 'em out of their lunch money.

3: The amount of time you actually have to spend SPAMMING with Facebook
to stay competitive - 24/7/365. Never did get an answer to my question:
When does that leave time to actually be a photographer?

As I've said before, I already spend too much unproductive time on the
computer with PDML - time I should be out taking photographs of
*something*. But PDML is something I value; something I want for itself;
something that I'm willing to give up some of my productive time because
of what I get in return.

But PDML can't be valued with a dollar sign. According to these experts,
I can't *USE* PDML for personal monetary gain, so I shouldn't be here at
all. I should be over on Facebook squeezing every dime I can out of its
users.

That's a sociopathic value system that I just have to refuse.

I can't take every aspect of my life and value it only according to how
much money I can squeeze out of it. If for no other reason than that
eliminates all the fun stuff and leaves only the drudgery.

And sooner or later, I have to look at myself in the mirror, and I want
to be able to respect the man I see there.

Just writing this has given me additional insight into why this stuff
bothered me so much. How many dollars is that worth? How do you place a
monetary value on self knowledge? ... on self respect?



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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[Boris Liberman]

On 1/13/2011 4:10 PM, John Sessoms wrote:

It's pretty much 24/7 social media now. Actually left me with a question
and some doubts.

Q: In this 24/7 assault on Facebook et al, when do you actually make
time to take photographs?
...
And then there's Facebook. That's a problem in itself.

I'd rather be trapped in a Bronx phone booth at 3:30am on Sunday
morning, masturbating a rabid mountain lion with a handful of rusty
barbed wire than to spend one minute on Facebook.


Well, disregarding your private activities in the aforementioned phone 
booth, it is unfortunately true that FB is a must. I mean - if you want 
to go public and start being known you have to have something like FB 
account or Twitter or whatever. You won't be perceived being serious 
about your craft if you don't go social .net.


If you wanted to exchange movies with your neighbors 20 years ago you 
ought to have a VCR. Now if you want to promote yourself you ought to 
have a virtual presence. FB or Twitter are integral parts thereof.


Offered merely as a consideration and not as an argument against or pro 
anything.


Boris

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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[P. J. Alling]

Facebook is central planning.  Like central planning in an economy it 
benefits the planners not the planned, though the latter don't seem to 
realize that.  (Now that I've mangled the English language a bit, I'll 
shut up about it).


On 1/14/2011 8:48 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

PDML is most definitely social media, and it has proved very valuable to me. 
Flickr  YouTube aren't really social media IMO, because there's no interaction 
to speak of.  It's the connections and interaction of true social media that can be 
put to work for you if your livelihood is dependent on promoting yourself or your 
brand.

Linked-In is social media for serious business, but it doesn't have the viral 
penetration power of facebook.

I find Twitter very valuable for getting leads on breaking auto news. I 
frequently turn those leads into assignments and dollars. I follow a large 
number of auto writers, car companies, and car company execs. I generally avoid 
using it for entertainment or interaction with friends.

In addition to being a good promotional tool, Facebook is a good photo 
resource. Pentax posts there regularly (that's where the Carlson interview came 
from), as do a number of other manufacturers and photo-related companies. Some 
PDML members, including Doug, Albano, Lassie and others,  post more photos on 
Facebook than here.

I think Facebook  and Twitter both have some negative baggage, so I was 
reluctant to get involved, but I'm definitely glad that i did.
Paul
On Jan 13, 2011, at 6:00 PM, Darren Addy wrote:


I too am anti-Facebook, but not against social-media.
Flickr is social media. YouTube is social media. Lots of things are
social media or social media aware (letting others Tweet and post
about it on their social media sites).
I dislike it when Facebook is the only thing that = social media to some people.

Sorta like how i hate the Photomatix-y Dial it up to 11 look is
called HDR by many today.

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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[John Sessoms]

From: Christine  Aguila

Work has hooked into the byways of social media, so I feel I have to
participate, and, frankly, I enjoy reading the status updates of FB posters.
I recently created a Twitter account as well, though  I now realize I'll
have to upgrade my current phone of limited smartness to a full fledged
smart phone.  This way I can participate in social media via phone rather
than computer, which is kind of fun when you're on the train or bus or those
lazy moments on the couch.

As to a marketing tool, well, John, if you're going to create a full-blown
photography business, I would think your first priority is to create a
strong blood  bones client base in your geographic location; seems to me
this necessitates an intial focus on traditional local advertising options
and positive word-of-mouth.  Once this has been established, FB  Twitter
could prove useful as a way to stay in touch with your existing client base,
and help to expand it.

Cheers, Christine



Yeah. I can see where it could be useful to stay in touch with people 
you have a real relationship with, even if that relationship is based on 
them being customers. What bothered me was the full-court FaceBook press 
solely because FaceBook makes it so easy to use people, particularly 
high school kids.


My antipathy for FaceBook was pre-existing, taking the form of You do 
your thing, I'll do mine ... but, thank you, FaceBook really ain't my 
thing. (... so quit telling me I *have* to have a FaceBook account. I 
don't *have* to do anything if I don't want to.)  8-D


The presentations just reinforced that antipathy by emphasizing how easy 
it is to mount what I consider to be a sleazy, dishonest FaceBook 
marketing campaign to use, abuse, manipulate and take advantage of a 
bunch of kids.


Unh-unh! Not just No, but HELL NO! ... ain't gonna' do it!

Ain't gonna' do Twitter either. I got a phone so I can make phone calls, 
and that's as smart as the phone needs to be. I already got computers 
that are smarter than I am. Hell, I got a microwave that's smarter than 
I am, it can cook popcorn without burning it.


I do have a blog that I don't update often enough. I probably should 
spend the time I spend on PDML trying to figure out something worth 
saying there. But I like PDML, so that's where I'm gonna' stay. It's all 
the social media I need, because it actually is social and not some scam 
to separate a bunch of high school kids from their lunch money.


The other thing is I'm NOT planning a full-blown photography business.

I'm retired. Maybe I didn't get to my retirement quite the way I wanted 
to, but I *am* retired now. I want to enjoy that retirement.


My goal is a part time photography business that supplements my 
retirement income - $2000/month net for 6 months out of the year would 
be terrific; $1000/month net for 6 months would be adequate. I'm 
thinking in terms of no more than 2-3 weddings per month from mid-March 
through Thanksgiving. I want to be able to give my prospective clients 
good value at a reasonable cost.


(Give 'em something worth fighting over when they get their divorce.)

And if the clients want extras - portraiture, engagements, babies, wall 
portraits ... or they want a Christmas or Valentines day wedding, I'll 
do that for them, with the goal still being a favorable cost/benefit 
ratio for the client - without me going broke or actually having to go 
back to working for a living.


It's a funny equation. I have a retirement income that is adequate for 
my basic cost of living. It's not much, but I've been reasonably frugal 
all of my life, so my basic costs aren't that high. I can have a good 
life if I don't bring in one additional penny in income.


The idea behind having a supplemental income from photography is to 
provide the little bit extra that will allow me the luxury of being a 
photographer. I want to earn enough to pay for new equipment and pay for 
travel so I can go places and use that equipment. I guess it's the 
difference between retirement and an *active* retirement.


But if I have to work full time, I won't have time to enjoy the fruits 
of my labor? I, for damn sure, don't want to spend 24/7/365 marketing a 
part time business. If I wanted that, I could do Amway.




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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[eckinator]

John you should blog this somewhere, it is bound to open a couple of
eyes here and there
off list reply after my nap
thank you
Ecke

2011/1/14 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com:
 From: Darren Addy

 I too am anti-Facebook, but not against social-media.
 Flickr is social media. YouTube is social media. Lots of things are
 social media or social media aware (letting others Tweet and post
 about it on their social media sites).
 I dislike it when Facebook is the only thing that = social media to some
 people.

 Sorta like how i hate the Photomatix-y Dial it up to 11 look is
 called HDR by many today.

 Yeah, you're right. I'm not really anti-social media. I have Flickr 
 YouTube and this mailing list. PDML is social media as far as I'm
 concerned, and it's the social media I chose for myself.

 What bothered me:
 1. Facebook itself - I don't want it. I'm fine with anyone else who wants to
 use it. But, I resent it when I'm told that I'm some kind of defective
 because I don't have a Facebook account.

 I don't try to keep anyone else from using Facebook. Let them do what they
 want to do. So why should anyone else try to force me to use Facebook if I
 don't want it.

 Why can't I be allowed to do what I want to do?

 2. More bothersome to me is that they weren't about using Facebook because
 of the value of having relationships, but for how easily it could be
 manipulated to use people.

 It's a marketing strategy based on deception. The presentations were all
 about side-stepping Facebook's minimal controls so you could use your
 friends pages to SPAM all of their friends. The value of a Facebook
 friend is all calculated in how many dollars can be extracted from them.

 And remember, what we're really talking about here is high school kids; how
 to separate them from their money. It's not about providing value or
 service, it's about scamming 'em out of their lunch money.

 3: The amount of time you actually have to spend SPAMMING with Facebook to
 stay competitive - 24/7/365. Never did get an answer to my question: When
 does that leave time to actually be a photographer?

 As I've said before, I already spend too much unproductive time on the
 computer with PDML - time I should be out taking photographs of *something*.
 But PDML is something I value; something I want for itself; something that
 I'm willing to give up some of my productive time because of what I get in
 return.

 But PDML can't be valued with a dollar sign. According to these experts, I
 can't *USE* PDML for personal monetary gain, so I shouldn't be here at all.
 I should be over on Facebook squeezing every dime I can out of its users.

 That's a sociopathic value system that I just have to refuse.

 I can't take every aspect of my life and value it only according to how much
 money I can squeeze out of it. If for no other reason than that eliminates
 all the fun stuff and leaves only the drudgery.

 And sooner or later, I have to look at myself in the mirror, and I want to
 be able to respect the man I see there.

 Just writing this has given me additional insight into why this stuff
 bothered me so much. How many dollars is that worth? How do you place a
 monetary value on self knowledge? ... on self respect?



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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[Christine Aguila]

Work has hooked into the byways of social media, so I feel I have to 
participate, and, frankly, I enjoy reading the status updates of FB posters. 
I recently created a Twitter account as well, though  I now realize I'll 
have to upgrade my current phone of limited smartness to a full fledged 
smart phone.  This way I can participate in social media via phone rather 
than computer, which is kind of fun when you're on the train or bus or those 
lazy moments on the couch.


As to a marketing tool, well, John, if you're going to create a full-blown 
photography business, I would think your first priority is to create a 
strong blood  bones client base in your geographic location; seems to me 
this necessitates an intial focus on traditional local advertising options 
and positive word-of-mouth.  Once this has been established, FB  Twitter 
could prove useful as a way to stay in touch with your existing client base, 
and help to expand it.


Cheers, Christine 



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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[Cotty]

Most of us have a bug up our asses about photography, John just has a
bug up his ass.


-- ;-)

--


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[John Sessoms]

From: Darren Addy

I too am anti-Facebook, but not against social-media.
Flickr is social media. YouTube is social media. Lots of things are
social media or social media aware (letting others Tweet and post
about it on their social media sites).
I dislike it when Facebook is the only thing that = social media to some people.

Sorta like how i hate the Photomatix-y Dial it up to 11 look is
called HDR by many today.


Yeah, you're right. I'm not really anti-social media. I have Flickr  
YouTube and this mailing list. PDML is social media as far as I'm 
concerned, and it's the social media I chose for myself.


What bothered me:
1. Facebook itself - I don't want it. I'm fine with anyone else who 
wants to use it. But, I resent it when I'm told that I'm some kind of 
defective because I don't have a Facebook account.


I don't try to keep anyone else from using Facebook. Let them do what 
they want to do. So why should anyone else try to force me to use 
Facebook if I don't want it.


Why can't I be allowed to do what I want to do?

2. More bothersome to me is that they weren't about using Facebook 
because of the value of having relationships, but for how easily it 
could be manipulated to use people.


It's a marketing strategy based on deception. The presentations were all 
about side-stepping Facebook's minimal controls so you could use your 
friends pages to SPAM all of their friends. The value of a Facebook 
friend is all calculated in how many dollars can be extracted from them.


And remember, what we're really talking about here is high school kids; 
how to separate them from their money. It's not about providing value or 
service, it's about scamming 'em out of their lunch money.


3: The amount of time you actually have to spend SPAMMING with Facebook 
to stay competitive - 24/7/365. Never did get an answer to my question: 
When does that leave time to actually be a photographer?


As I've said before, I already spend too much unproductive time on the 
computer with PDML - time I should be out taking photographs of 
*something*. But PDML is something I value; something I want for itself; 
something that I'm willing to give up some of my productive time because 
of what I get in return.


But PDML can't be valued with a dollar sign. According to these experts, 
I can't *USE* PDML for personal monetary gain, so I shouldn't be here at 
all. I should be over on Facebook squeezing every dime I can out of its 
users.


That's a sociopathic value system that I just have to refuse.

I can't take every aspect of my life and value it only according to how 
much money I can squeeze out of it. If for no other reason than that 
eliminates all the fun stuff and leaves only the drudgery.


And sooner or later, I have to look at myself in the mirror, and I want 
to be able to respect the man I see there.


Just writing this has given me additional insight into why this stuff 
bothered me so much. How many dollars is that worth? How do you place a 
monetary value on self knowledge? ... on self respect?




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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[John Sessoms]

From: David Parsons

Ahh, I see.  It was a rant, not a request for advice.


Oh yeah. Probably should have made that clear.

Well, OK then - *this* is a request for advice:

For future consideration, is there any simple, standardized, 
PDML-approved method for tagging the rants from the beginning so I don't 
confuse people.


8-D


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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[Doug Franklin]

On 2011-01-14 15:19, John Sessoms wrote:


For future consideration, is there any simple, standardized,
PDML-approved method for tagging the rants from the beginning so I don't
confuse people.


There are posts on the PDML that /aren't/ rants?!  Wow!

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DougF (KG4LMZ)

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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[John Sessoms]

From: Sandy Harris

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 10:10 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:

 I'd rather be trapped in a Bronx phone booth at 3:30am on Sunday morning,
 masturbating a rabid mountain lion with a handful of rusty barbed wire than
 to spend one minute on Facebook.

Mark!


Thanks, but I think it's rather too obviously written with intent to get 
a Mark! ... it wasn't, but it looks like it was.



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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[Bong Manayon]

On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 7:59 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:

 Thanks, but I think it's rather too obviously written with intent to get a
 Mark! ... it wasn't, but it looks like it was.


Mark!

:-)

-- 
Bong Manayon
http://www.bong.uni.cc

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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[Bong Manayon]

On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote:
 I too am anti-Facebook, but not against social-media.
 Flickr is social media. YouTube is social media. Lots of things are
 social media or social media aware (letting others Tweet and post
 about it on their social media sites).
 I dislike it when Facebook is the only thing that = social media to some 
 people.

 Sorta like how i hate the Photomatix-y Dial it up to 11 look is
 called HDR by many today.

Well said!  John S addendum is spot on too.  I got into Facebook
dragging my feet but only because childhood friends and relatives
finally found a medium where we can interact.  I give it time only
during holidays and long spells when I'm not busy, but I found a way
to link my Flickr to entertain most of my contacts.

Bong

-- 
Bong Manayon
http://www.bong.uni.cc

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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[John Sessoms]

From: Cotty

Most of us have a bug up our asses about photography, John just has a
bug up his ass.


-- ;-)



God will get your for that, Cotty
... and if she doesn't, I will.


8-D


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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[Paul Stenquist]

PDML is most definitely social media, and it has proved very valuable to me. 
Flickr  YouTube aren't really social media IMO, because there's no interaction 
to speak of.  It's the connections and interaction of true social media that 
can be put to work for you if your livelihood is dependent on promoting 
yourself or your brand. 

Linked-In is social media for serious business, but it doesn't have the viral 
penetration power of facebook. 

I find Twitter very valuable for getting leads on breaking auto news. I 
frequently turn those leads into assignments and dollars. I follow a large 
number of auto writers, car companies, and car company execs. I generally avoid 
using it for entertainment or interaction with friends. 

In addition to being a good promotional tool, Facebook is a good photo 
resource. Pentax posts there regularly (that's where the Carlson interview came 
from), as do a number of other manufacturers and photo-related companies. Some 
PDML members, including Doug, Albano, Lassie and others,  post more photos on 
Facebook than here. 

I think Facebook  and Twitter both have some negative baggage, so I was 
reluctant to get involved, but I'm definitely glad that i did.
Paul
On Jan 13, 2011, at 6:00 PM, Darren Addy wrote:

 I too am anti-Facebook, but not against social-media.
 Flickr is social media. YouTube is social media. Lots of things are
 social media or social media aware (letting others Tweet and post
 about it on their social media sites).
 I dislike it when Facebook is the only thing that = social media to some 
 people.
 
 Sorta like how i hate the Photomatix-y Dial it up to 11 look is
 called HDR by many today.
 
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Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[John Sessoms]

I say only semi-OT because I am a *Pentax* photographer.

I attended the Central Region winter seminar for the PPofNC Sunday and 
Monday. Hoped there would be at least one speaker with ideas on how to 
improve myself as a photographer, but it was all about at marketing 
yourself.


Even the one session that was supposed to be about how to streamline 
PhotoShop and Lightroom was about how to get the images up on Facebook 
faster.


It's pretty much 24/7 social media now. Actually left me with a question 
and some doubts.


Q: In this 24/7 assault on Facebook et al, when do you actually make 
time to take photographs?


And none of it addressed my current aims in life.

I don't want spend 24/7 on a computer marketing myself. I spend far too 
much of my time on the computer now just from trying to keep up with 
this one mailing list I belong to.


As a photographer, I don't want to *WORK* full time. My aim is a part 
time business to supplement my income just enough to pay for the 
equipment and perhaps a little location travel.


I undertake the *work* of photography for a specific purpose; to allow 
me to afford what I need in order to enjoy the *pleasure* of 
photography. In other words, I'll take the photos someone wants to buy, 
so that I can have the financial resources to take the photos *I* want 
to take.


But, it's not worth it if I have to work so hard I never have time for 
myself.


And then there's Facebook. That's a problem in itself.

I'd rather be trapped in a Bronx phone booth at 3:30am on Sunday 
morning, masturbating a rabid mountain lion with a handful of rusty 
barbed wire than to spend one minute on Facebook.


Yes, I *am* a Luddite!

I'd start a fan page for Luddites Anonymous, but I don't have a Facebook 
Account.


Later ... gotta get ready for school. Looks like the ice has melted 
enough that it's finally going to open today.



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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[eckinator]

I was on facebook once before and decided it is not for me. Now that I
am starting my own business I opened another account there and will
keep it for a while. I don't have time to maintain it and clicking I
like isn't my idea of social interaction either so that if it has
generated any sales one year from now it will stay, if it hasn't it
will go. I don't like their idea of privacy so my settings are as
restrictive as possible which kinda leads using it ad absurdum but I'm
open to see what comes of it.
Ecke

2011/1/13 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com:
 I say only semi-OT because I am a *Pentax* photographer.

 I attended the Central Region winter seminar for the PPofNC Sunday and
 Monday. Hoped there would be at least one speaker with ideas on how to
 improve myself as a photographer, but it was all about at marketing
 yourself.

 Even the one session that was supposed to be about how to streamline
 PhotoShop and Lightroom was about how to get the images up on Facebook
 faster.

 It's pretty much 24/7 social media now. Actually left me with a question and
 some doubts.

 Q: In this 24/7 assault on Facebook et al, when do you actually make time to
 take photographs?

 And none of it addressed my current aims in life.

 I don't want spend 24/7 on a computer marketing myself. I spend far too much
 of my time on the computer now just from trying to keep up with this one
 mailing list I belong to.

 As a photographer, I don't want to *WORK* full time. My aim is a part time
 business to supplement my income just enough to pay for the equipment and
 perhaps a little location travel.

 I undertake the *work* of photography for a specific purpose; to allow me to
 afford what I need in order to enjoy the *pleasure* of photography. In other
 words, I'll take the photos someone wants to buy, so that I can have the
 financial resources to take the photos *I* want to take.

 But, it's not worth it if I have to work so hard I never have time for
 myself.

 And then there's Facebook. That's a problem in itself.

 I'd rather be trapped in a Bronx phone booth at 3:30am on Sunday morning,
 masturbating a rabid mountain lion with a handful of rusty barbed wire than
 to spend one minute on Facebook.

 Yes, I *am* a Luddite!

 I'd start a fan page for Luddites Anonymous, but I don't have a Facebook
 Account.

 Later ... gotta get ready for school. Looks like the ice has melted enough
 that it's finally going to open today.


 -
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3376 - Release Date: 01/12/11


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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[Paul Stenquist]

I don't know if Facebook generates sales, but it is a good tool for promoting 
your services and brand. I maintain a page for myself and one for my company, 
Stenquist Communications, LLC. Neither requires any work, unless I choose to 
provide an update. But I've found that my personal page has reconnected me with 
a lot of old friends. And by reading the posts now and then, I can see what 
they're up to. Also, some PDML members who rarely post photos here, show their 
work on Facebook. I enjoy that. My business page has brought me several new 
clients and quite a bit of work. But it's not necessarily about sales, it's 
about broad-based marketing and brand awareness.

Paul


On Jan 13, 2011, at 9:29 AM, eckinator wrote:

 I was on facebook once before and decided it is not for me. No
 am starting my own business I opened another account there and will
 keep it for a while. I don't have time to maintain it and clicking I
 like isn't my idea of social interaction either so that if it has
 generated any sales one year from now it will stay, if it hasn't it
 will go. I don't like their idea of privacy so my settings are as
 restrictive as possible which kinda leads using it ad absurdum but I'm
 open to see what comes of it.
 Ecke
 
 2011/1/13 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com:
 I say only semi-OT because I am a *Pentax* photographer.
 
 I attended the Central Region winter seminar for the PPofNC Sunday and
 Monday. Hoped there would be at least one speaker with ideas on how to
 improve myself as a photographer, but it was all about at marketing
 yourself.
 
 Even the one session that was supposed to be about how to streamline
 PhotoShop and Lightroom was about how to get the images up on Facebook
 faster.
 
 It's pretty much 24/7 social media now. Actually left me with a question and
 some doubts.
 
 Q: In this 24/7 assault on Facebook et al, when do you actually make time to
 take photographs?
 
 And none of it addressed my current aims in life.
 
 I don't want spend 24/7 on a computer marketing myself. I spend far too much
 of my time on the computer now just from trying to keep up with this one
 mailing list I belong to.
 
 As a photographer, I don't want to *WORK* full time. My aim is a part time
 business to supplement my income just enough to pay for the equipment and
 perhaps a little location travel.
 
 I undertake the *work* of photography for a specific purpose; to allow me to
 afford what I need in order to enjoy the *pleasure* of photography. In other
 words, I'll take the photos someone wants to buy, so that I can have the
 financial resources to take the photos *I* want to take.
 
 But, it's not worth it if I have to work so hard I never have time for
 myself.
 
 And then there's Facebook. That's a problem in itself.
 
 I'd rather be trapped in a Bronx phone booth at 3:30am on Sunday morning,
 masturbating a rabid mountain lion with a handful of rusty barbed wire than
 to spend one minute on Facebook.
 
 Yes, I *am* a Luddite!
 
 I'd start a fan page for Luddites Anonymous, but I don't have a Facebook
 Account.
 
 Later ... gotta get ready for school. Looks like the ice has melted enough
 that it's finally going to open today.
 
 
 -
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3376 - Release Date: 01/12/11
 
 
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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[Steven Desjardins]

You're going top hear form a lot of Mountain Lions now that it's out
on the net. . .

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:10 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:
 I say only semi-OT because I am a *Pentax* photographer.

 I attended the Central Region winter seminar for the PPofNC Sunday and
 Monday. Hoped there would be at least one speaker with ideas on how to
 improve myself as a photographer, but it was all about at marketing
 yourself.

 Even the one session that was supposed to be about how to streamline
 PhotoShop and Lightroom was about how to get the images up on Facebook
 faster.

 It's pretty much 24/7 social media now. Actually left me with a question and
 some doubts.

 Q: In this 24/7 assault on Facebook et al, when do you actually make time to
 take photographs?

 And none of it addressed my current aims in life.

 I don't want spend 24/7 on a computer marketing myself. I spend far too much
 of my time on the computer now just from trying to keep up with this one
 mailing list I belong to.

 As a photographer, I don't want to *WORK* full time. My aim is a part time
 business to supplement my income just enough to pay for the equipment and
 perhaps a little location travel.

 I undertake the *work* of photography for a specific purpose; to allow me to
 afford what I need in order to enjoy the *pleasure* of photography. In other
 words, I'll take the photos someone wants to buy, so that I can have the
 financial resources to take the photos *I* want to take.

 But, it's not worth it if I have to work so hard I never have time for
 myself.

 And then there's Facebook. That's a problem in itself.

 I'd rather be trapped in a Bronx phone booth at 3:30am on Sunday morning,
 masturbating a rabid mountain lion with a handful of rusty barbed wire than
 to spend one minute on Facebook.

 Yes, I *am* a Luddite!

 I'd start a fan page for Luddites Anonymous, but I don't have a Facebook
 Account.

 Later ... gotta get ready for school. Looks like the ice has melted enough
 that it's finally going to open today.


 -
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3376 - Release Date: 01/12/11


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-- 
Steve Desjardins

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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[Doug Franklin]

On 2011-01-13 9:29, eckinator wrote:

clicking I
like isn't my idea of social interaction


No, it's more a way to get on the radar of people with whom you might 
want to interact, even if you don't know it yet.


--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)

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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[Christine Nielsen]

Well, I hope you are up-to-date on your tetanus...

Alternatively, you might consider how facebook could work *for* you.
I suppose you could start by figuring out if your potential customers
are on facebook.  If not, if you are marketing yourself to fellow
Luddites, then it's not an issue.  :)  But, if you want to put your
brand  in front of other folks, then it might be worthwhile.  I have
seen other photographers (wedding and portrait, mostly) really use fb
to their advantage... it's the 21st century version of that old
shampoo commercial... and she told 2 friends, and he told 2 friends,
and so on, and so on...   Many wedding/portrait photogs have blogs
that complement their websites, and every time the blog is updated
with new material from their latest shoot, it is linked to the fb
page, and the update happens simultaneously.  I don't know how much
time it takes to maintain... but it might be time better spent than
other marketing efforts in getting you to your goal.

Let me know if you get on fb... and I'll friend you.

:)
-c

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:10 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:
 I say only semi-OT because I am a *Pentax* photographer.

 I attended the Central Region winter seminar for the PPofNC Sunday and
 Monday. Hoped there would be at least one speaker with ideas on how to
 improve myself as a photographer, but it was all about at marketing
 yourself.

 Even the one session that was supposed to be about how to streamline
 PhotoShop and Lightroom was about how to get the images up on Facebook
 faster.

 It's pretty much 24/7 social media now. Actually left me with a question and
 some doubts.

 Q: In this 24/7 assault on Facebook et al, when do you actually make time to
 take photographs?

 And none of it addressed my current aims in life.

 I don't want spend 24/7 on a computer marketing myself. I spend far too much
 of my time on the computer now just from trying to keep up with this one
 mailing list I belong to.

 As a photographer, I don't want to *WORK* full time. My aim is a part time
 business to supplement my income just enough to pay for the equipment and
 perhaps a little location travel.

 I undertake the *work* of photography for a specific purpose; to allow me to
 afford what I need in order to enjoy the *pleasure* of photography. In other
 words, I'll take the photos someone wants to buy, so that I can have the
 financial resources to take the photos *I* want to take.

 But, it's not worth it if I have to work so hard I never have time for
 myself.

 And then there's Facebook. That's a problem in itself.

 I'd rather be trapped in a Bronx phone booth at 3:30am on Sunday morning,
 masturbating a rabid mountain lion with a handful of rusty barbed wire than
 to spend one minute on Facebook.

 Yes, I *am* a Luddite!

 I'd start a fan page for Luddites Anonymous, but I don't have a Facebook
 Account.

 Later ... gotta get ready for school. Looks like the ice has melted enough
 that it's finally going to open today.


 -
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3376 - Release Date: 01/12/11


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Re: Semi-OT: Social Media Marketing

[AlunFoto]

I absolutely agree with Christine. Not that I manage to see any
customers there for myself, but I observe several successful Norwegian
nature photographers using FB to their advantage. They post regularly,
and thus give the impression of relentless photographic activity. From
the look of it, some could definately benefit from HA medication, or
at least go more easy on the caffeine... :-)
They have shifted from promoting their photos to promoting their
activity as photographers. But it keeps them at the front of their
customers' minds.

Jostein

2011/1/13 Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net:
 Well, I hope you are up-to-date on your tetanus...

 Alternatively, you might consider how facebook could work *for* you.
 I suppose you could start by figuring out if your potential customers
 are on facebook.  If not, if you are marketing yourself to fellow
 Luddites, then it's not an issue.  :)  But, if you want to put your
 brand  in front of other folks, then it might be worthwhile.  I have
 seen other photographers (wedding and portrait, mostly) really use fb
 to their advantage... it's the 21st century version of that old
 shampoo commercial... and she told 2 friends, and he told 2 friends,
 and so on, and so on...   Many wedding/portrait photogs have blogs
 that complement their websites, and every time the blog is updated
 with new material from their latest shoot, it is linked to the fb
 page, and the update happens simultaneously.  I don't know how much
 time it takes to maintain... but it might be time better spent than
 other marketing efforts in getting you to your goal.

 Let me know if you get on fb... and I'll friend you.

 :)
 -c

 On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 9:10 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:
 I say only semi-OT because I am a *Pentax* photographer.

 I attended the Central Region winter seminar for the PPofNC Sunday and
 Monday. Hoped there would be at least one speaker with ideas on how to
 improve myself as a photographer, but it was all about at marketing
 yourself.

 Even the one session that was supposed to be about how to streamline
 PhotoShop and Lightroom was about how to get the images up on Facebook
 faster.

 It's pretty much 24/7 social media now. Actually left me with a question and
 some doubts.

 Q: In this 24/7 assault on Facebook et al, when do you actually make time to
 take photographs?

 And none of it addressed my current aims in life.

 I don't want spend 24/7 on a computer marketing myself. I spend far too much
 of my time on the computer now just from trying to keep up with this one
 mailing list I belong to.

 As a photographer, I don't want to *WORK* full time. My aim is a part time
 business to supplement my income just enough to pay for the equipment and
 perhaps a little location travel.

 I undertake the *work* of photography for a specific purpose; to allow me to
 afford what I need in order to enjoy the *pleasure* of photography. In other
 words, I'll take the photos someone wants to buy, so that I can have the
 financial resources to take the photos *I* want to take.

 But, it's not worth it if I have to work so hard I never have time for
 myself.

 And then there's Facebook. That's a problem in itself.

 I'd rather be trapped in a Bronx phone booth at 3:30am on Sunday morning,
 masturbating a rabid mountain lion with a handful of rusty barbed wire than
 to spend one minute on Facebook.

 Yes, I *am* a Luddite!

 I'd start a fan page for Luddites Anonymous, but I don't have a Facebook
 Account.

 Later ... gotta get ready for school. Looks like the ice has melted enough
 that it's finally going to open today.


 -
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3376 - Release Date: 01/12/11


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