Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
On Dec 17, 2005, at 11:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think he was a pompous twit. I think he was a darn fine photographer with a unique vision and style. Someone not easy to dismiss and someone who will be long remembered by many people. There was nothing pompous in Galen. He was open, friendly, down to earth. He will certainly be long remembered by me. Bob
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
On Dec 17, 2005, at 12:30 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: Someone asked him about his working relationship with Galen Rowell and it just stopped him in his tracks. I thought he was going to break down and cry then and there. He didn't quite but he came close enough that the person who asked the question apologized for bringing it up. Then he talked for a good 45 minutes about his various adventures with Galen. It was actually one of the most moving photography-related experiences I've ever had. I wish I could have been there for that. Bob
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
On Dec 18, 2005, at 2:11 PM, E.R.N. Reed wrote: During the period when I used to read Outdoor Photographer (several years ago) I noticed that Dewitt Jones brought up his shooting for National Geographic in every single column at least once. Since I was also in the habit of reading National Geographic and had never noticed his name in a byline or photo credit, I eventually looked him up in the index and found a small number of references, but he still really isn't one of the first, say, twenty names that would come to my mind if I were trying to think of National Geographic photographers. Just struck me as major name-dropping, the way he kept on with it, and persistent name-droppers just set my teeth on edge. 'Course, I haven't read OP in many years, so for all I know, by now Dewitt Jones could have died, retired, or stopped referring to himself as an NG photographer every month, (Rowell died way after I stopped reading the mag) and the text may now have its typos corrected before printing. For all I know. I don't know Dewitt Jones, and had never heard of him before seeing his column in OP. I noticed that he mentioned National Geographic a lot, as well. I don't have a problem with that so long as he actually did at least one shoot for them, though. Most of us tend to emphasize our accomplishments. I've been accused of being a name dropper as well. Some seem to be offended that I know so many well- known photographers, and am not shy about saying so. It would be hard not to meet a lot of these people when you are the Editor of a major photography magazine for more than twenty years. While on the subject of name dropping, I've worked for National Geographic as a technical consultant for some years. You won't see my name in the magazine, but if you look at the credits in the series of Photo Field Guide books, you'll find me there. So I'm sure some will just consider me a name dropper if I recount experiences with known photographers. As I said, I don't know Dewitt Jones, but George Lepp is another old friend. Met him in '89. Bob
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Bob, It's his nebulous theme of claiming a somewhat heroic ability in succeeding in getting the definitive shot. I skipped his OP articles for some period of time when, maybe, I should have given his writing the benefit of an adjustment in my narrow attitude. Jack --- Bob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 17, 2005, at 11:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think he was a pompous twit. I think he was a darn fine photographer with a unique vision and style. Someone not easy to dismiss and someone who will be long remembered by many people. There was nothing pompous in Galen. He was open, friendly, down to earth. He will certainly be long remembered by me. Bob __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
On Dec 19, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Jack Davis wrote: It's his nebulous theme of claiming a somewhat heroic ability in succeeding in getting the definitive shot. He certainly was fearless in getting to places to take those shots. I think he was helped in his mountain climbing by being a physically small person. I'm not a mountain climber, but it seems logical that less weight would be an advantage. In spite of being relatively small, I never detected any hint of Napoleon complex. I skipped his OP articles for some period of time when, maybe, I should have given his writing the benefit of an adjustment in my narrow attitude. Perhaps you should go back and read the books. Most good libraries ought to have them. Bob
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
On Dec 18, 2005, at 8:35 AM, Pål Jensen wrote: Better read his book Mountan light. Incidentally, his OP columns are published in book form as Galen Rowell's Vision: The Art of Adventure Photography and Galen Rowell's Inner Game of Outdoor Photography. All mandatory reading if you're interested in this type of photography. I'd second Mountain Light - every landscape photographer should read it. I wanted to buy a copy but the hardcover version is out of print. - Dave
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Jack Davis wrote: I can allow that Dewitt has written for NG without jealousy or resentment. Jack --- Glen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 02:01 PM 12/17/2005, E.R.N. Reed wrote: Tom C wrote: Dewitt Jones has long been my favorite OP writer. I like his ideas on how to look at things and find the shot. Ah yes, Dewitt I shoot for National Geographic Jones. Way more mentions of shooting for NG in his columns than there are mentions of him in NG's index. I'm not familiar with Dewitt Jones and how often he brings up that fact, but I have to say that if I had shot for National Geographic, I would have to mention it at least a few times in public. ;) take care, Glen I haven't shot for National Geographic... yet. Berry During the period when I used to read Outdoor Photographer (several years ago) I noticed that Dewitt Jones brought up his shooting for National Geographic in every single column at least once. Since I was also in the habit of reading National Geographic and had never noticed his name in a byline or photo credit, I eventually looked him up in the index and found a small number of references, but he still really isn't one of the first, say, twenty names that would come to my mind if I were trying to think of National Geographic photographers. Just struck me as major name-dropping, the way he kept on with it, and persistent name-droppers just set my teeth on edge. 'Course, I haven't read OP in many years, so for all I know, by now Dewitt Jones could have died, retired, or stopped referring to himself as an NG photographer every month, (Rowell died way after I stopped reading the mag) and the text may now have its typos corrected before printing. For all I know.
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Apparently, you can't. Jack --- E.R.N. Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jack Davis wrote: I can allow that Dewitt has written for NG without jealousy or resentment. Jack --- Glen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 02:01 PM 12/17/2005, E.R.N. Reed wrote: Tom C wrote: Dewitt Jones has long been my favorite OP writer. I like his ideas on how to look at things and find the shot. Ah yes, Dewitt I shoot for National Geographic Jones. Way more mentions of shooting for NG in his columns than there are mentions of him in NG's index. I'm not familiar with Dewitt Jones and how often he brings up that fact, but I have to say that if I had shot for National Geographic, I would have to mention it at least a few times in public. ;) take care, Glen I haven't shot for National Geographic... yet. Berry During the period when I used to read Outdoor Photographer (several years ago) I noticed that Dewitt Jones brought up his shooting for National Geographic in every single column at least once. Since I was also in the habit of reading National Geographic and had never noticed his name in a byline or photo credit, I eventually looked him up in the index and found a small number of references, but he still really isn't one of the first, say, twenty names that would come to my mind if I were trying to think of National Geographic photographers. Just struck me as major name-dropping, the way he kept on with it, and persistent name-droppers just set my teeth on edge. 'Course, I haven't read OP in many years, so for all I know, by now Dewitt Jones could have died, retired, or stopped referring to himself as an NG photographer every month, (Rowell died way after I stopped reading the mag) and the text may now have its typos corrected before printing. For all I know. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
On 16/12/05, Kenneth Waller, discombobulated, unleashed: No man is an island. Yes but some of us are peninsulas. LOL. Nice one. I'm more of a promontory. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
- Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know it isn't nice to speak ill of the dead, but Galen always struck me as a pompous twit. You wanna meet real photographic genius, spend a day shooting with Courtney Milne. I don't know. I have a book by mr. Milne. I think its called secret places or something (too lazy to check in the book shelf). I find the images average at best Pål
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] He had a swaggering literary style and was a Nikon bigot. I pointed that out to him in a letter years ago. So whats wrong with being a Nikon bigot? I'm a Pentax bigot. I think Rowell states several times that his experiences can be transfered to other brands as well. He is even known to have used Pentaxes when his Nikon failed! He is certainly not an equipment pimp as some other known but not as talented photographers. Pål
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
- Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Getting past the prose was always my problem. I have no problems with his prose but then English isn't my first language... Pål
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
On Dec 16, 2005, at 3:04 PM, Pål Jensen wrote: I like his writing even better than his photography. Considering how much I like his photography that says a lot! In my opinion he was the best writer on outdoor photography ever and his death was a great tragic loss for outdoor photographers everywhere. Galen was a good friend of mine. He really didn't think of himself as much of a writer, more as a visual artist whose subject was the grandeur of mountains. He really got into photography and later into writing pretty much by accident. Before that he was an auto mechanic with a passion for mountain climbing! The world of photography lost much with is passing. Those on the list who read Amateur Photographer may have seen the appreciation I wrote about Galen. Bob
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
- Original Message - From: Bob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Galen was a good friend of mine. He really didn't think of himself as much of a writer, more as a visual artist whose subject was the grandeur of mountains. Maybe. But I stll think he was the greatest writer on nature photgraphy out there. He was able to put into words and solve the problems outdoor photographer struggle with. I would say his writing is the only writing on photography that litteralle made me better photographer. Pål
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
On Dec 17, 2005, at 9:29 AM, Pål Jensen wrote: Maybe. But I stll think he was the greatest writer on nature photgraphy out there. He was able to put into words and solve the problems outdoor photographer struggle with. I would say his writing is the only writing on photography that litteralle made me better photographer. I think he was a better writer than he thought he was. I've read almost everything he wrote and don't really have much of a problem with it from an Editor's perspective. I always wanted him to write some stuff for me, but his contract with Outdoor Photographer prevented that. I did put one of his photos on our cover, though. We decided to flip the photo left to right to make it work better on the cover. Galen thought it was really funny that we got a bunch of letters complaining that we flipped it, since he didn't think it was a big deal. In retrospect I realized that we should have mentioned in the caption that we had flipped it with his permission to forestall the letters. (One time on another magazine I worked on the art director flipped the cover shot to make a better composition. Unfortunately, it was a cover of Soccer star Pele, and had him kicking with the wrong foot and with the wrong number on his uniform!) Bob
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Demeaned himself once by using a Pentax, borrowed from a complete stranger, when his Nikon was dropped and couldn't be recovered. He revealed his insecurity in his Outdoor Photographer writing. Maybe some kick-back arrangement? Sadly, it seems you haven't experienced the class of contact with a respectful, generous and successful fellow photographer who has no spoken interest in what brand of equipment you use? A shame. Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] He had a swaggering literary style and was a Nikon bigot. I pointed that out to him in a letter years ago. So whats wrong with being a Nikon bigot? I'm a Pentax bigot. I think Rowell states several times that his experiences can be transfered to other brands as well. He is even known to have used Pentaxes when his Nikon failed! He is certainly not an equipment pimp as some other known but not as talented photographers. Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
You see the futility of it Bill? Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Getting past the prose was always my problem. I have no problems with his prose but then English isn't my first language... Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Did he make you think, like a piece of Kodachrome? Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Bob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Galen was a good friend of mine. He really didn't think of himself as much of a writer, more as a visual artist whose subject was the grandeur of mountains. Maybe. But I stll think he was the greatest writer on nature photgraphy out there. He was able to put into words and solve the problems outdoor photographer struggle with. I would say his writing is the only writing on photography that litteralle made me better photographer. Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Hey Jack, His English is better than your Norwegian. Jostein - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 4:16 PM Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) Did he make you think, like a piece of Kodachrome? Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Bob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Galen was a good friend of mine. He really didn't think of himself as much of a writer, more as a visual artist whose subject was the grandeur of mountains. Maybe. But I stll think he was the greatest writer on nature photgraphy out there. He was able to put into words and solve the problems outdoor photographer struggle with. I would say his writing is the only writing on photography that litteralle made me better photographer. Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
I wrote: Hey Jack, His English is better than your Norwegian. Jostein Sorry, there should have been a smiley, of course. Jostein - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 4:16 PM Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) Did he make you think, like a piece of Kodachrome? Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Bob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Galen was a good friend of mine. He really didn't think of himself as much of a writer, more as a visual artist whose subject was the grandeur of mountains. Maybe. But I stll think he was the greatest writer on nature photgraphy out there. He was able to put into words and solve the problems outdoor photographer struggle with. I would say his writing is the only writing on photography that litteralle made me better photographer. Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
In a message dated 12/17/2005 6:21:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Galen was a good friend of mine. He really didn't think of himself as much of a writer, more as a visual artist whose subject was the grandeur of mountains. He really got into photography and later into writing pretty much by accident. Before that he was an auto mechanic with a passion for mountain climbing! The world of photography lost much with is passing. Those on the list who read Amateur Photographer may have seen the appreciation I wrote about Galen. Bob == He also took a lot of pictures of the Bay Area in addition to mountains. Because I live here I bought Bay Area Wild. The pictures are simply gorgeous. I think he tried to explain in words some things that are primarily visual and hard to explain in words. Things he was passionate about. I am not always the most articulate person, being primarily visual and not verbal, and I am often not the most clear about things I am passionate about. So, yes, I sometimes find his prose hard to read, but I understand why sometimes it's difficult to be clear in words about such things. I don't think he was a pompous twit. I think he was a darn fine photographer with a unique vision and style. Someone not easy to dismiss and someone who will be long remembered by many people. Marnie aka Doe
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Mark Roberts wrote: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Years ago I visited his studio in the Bay area was absolutely blown away by his images. Seeing them in in magazine just didn't do them justice. I felt I could step into them when I saw them in person. A Rowell gallery is still in operation in Bishop, Ca. It's on my list of photographic pilgrimages to make some day. I really liked his written work, to. Not necessarily the prose but the ideas. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com Sh*t - Galen Rowell died? If someone posted this as a title before today it never hit my mail box - When? ANd here I am watching the news every night in NY and didn't see anything about this. But a fair amount about actor John Spencer who was a terrible loss to the film and tv community. I tend not to see any news on line as things seem to move on the news pages and it makes me dizzy. I read Rowell all the time back in the day when I got photo mags. ann sad
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
In a message dated 12/17/2005 8:47:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I read Rowell all the time back in the day when I got photo mags. ann sad === Uh, ann, a couple of years ago. I am sure someone else can pinpoint the date. Marnie aka Doe
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
'sokay. No big..and you're right! It was not, however, his word fauxpas', but his manner and style of use. Jack --- Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wrote: Hey Jack, His English is better than your Norwegian. Jostein Sorry, there should have been a smiley, of course. Jostein - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 4:16 PM Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) Did he make you think, like a piece of Kodachrome? Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Bob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Galen was a good friend of mine. He really didn't think of himself as much of a writer, more as a visual artist whose subject was the grandeur of mountains. Maybe. But I stll think he was the greatest writer on nature photgraphy out there. He was able to put into words and solve the problems outdoor photographer struggle with. I would say his writing is the only writing on photography that litteralle made me better photographer. Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
- Original Message - From: Ann Sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sh*t - Galen Rowell died? If someone posted this as a title before today it never hit my mail box - He died in a plane crash the summer of 2002. I still remember coming home from a mountain trip and reading on photo.net that he died in a plane crash the previous afternoon. I was quite devastated having been looking foreward to 30 more years of his photography and writing. Pål
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't think he was a pompous twit. I think he was a darn fine photographer with a unique vision and style. Someone not easy to dismiss and someone who will be long remembered by many people. I don't understand why anyone would find him pompous, let alone a twit. I admit to never having met the guy, but he certainly didn't cloud his photography with philosophical new age mumbo jumbo and mysticism as often seen when other, less talented (outdoor)photographers trying to explain their art. Rowell based his vision of sound scientific facts and he basically tried to make pleasing and effective images with no mysteries involved. Pål
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Bob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think he was a better writer than he thought he was. I've read almost everything he wrote and don't really have much of a problem with it from an Editor's perspective. I always wanted him to write some stuff for me, but his contract with Outdoor Photographer prevented that. A couple of years ago I attended a workshop held by Frans Lanting at Chatham College (part of a celebration of Rachel Carson). This was less than a year after Galen Rowell was killed. At the end of his presentation Lanting took questions and eventually, running a bit over time, said he could only take one more quick question and then he would have to leave. Someone asked him about his working relationship with Galen Rowell and it just stopped him in his tracks. I thought he was going to break down and cry then and there. He didn't quite but he came close enough that the person who asked the question apologized for bringing it up. Then he talked for a good 45 minutes about his various adventures with Galen. It was actually one of the most moving photography-related experiences I've ever had. I did put one of his photos on our cover, though. We decided to flip the photo left to right to make it work better on the cover. Galen thought it was really funny that we got a bunch of letters complaining that we flipped it, since he didn't think it was a big deal. In retrospect I realized that we should have mentioned in the caption that we had flipped it with his permission to forestall the letters. Outdoor Photographer did that once and mentioned in three separate places in the magazine that they'd done it (and why). They still got complaints about it. I guess OP is kinda like Playboy - people buy it to look at the pictures, not read the print ;-) -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Aug. 11, '02. (Born in 1940) Killed, along with his wife, Barbara and two other passengers (I believe) in a plane crash that happened on landing approach to the Bishop, CA airport. In this case, his wife was not piloting the plane which was returning from an Alaskan shoot. Jack --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/17/2005 8:47:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I read Rowell all the time back in the day when I got photo mags. ann sad === Uh, ann, a couple of years ago. I am sure someone else can pinpoint the date. Marnie aka Doe __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
In a message dated 12/17/2005 9:24:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Outdoor Photographer did that once and mentioned in three separate places in the magazine that they'd done it (and why). They still got complaints about it. I guess OP is kinda like Playboy - people buy it to look at the pictures, not read the print ;-) -- Mark Roberts == Hehehehe. Never heard it put that way. Although, I subscribe to OP and mainly look at the pictures and rarely read the articles (except Lepp's). So I guess you are right. Hehehehe. Marnie aka Doe ;-)
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Ignoring all the reasons having been cited will not make them go away. Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't think he was a pompous twit. I think he was a darn fine photographer with a unique vision and style. Someone not easy to dismiss and someone who will be long remembered by many people. I don't understand why anyone would find him pompous, let alone a twit. I admit to never having met the guy, but he certainly didn't cloud his photography with philosophical new age mumbo jumbo and mysticism as often seen when other, less talented (outdoor)photographers trying to explain their art. Rowell based his vision of sound scientific facts and he basically tried to make pleasing and effective images with no mysteries involved. Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16/12/05, Kenneth Waller, discombobulated, unleashed: No man is an island. Yes but some of us are peninsulas. LOL. Nice one. I'm more of a promontory. Funny, I could have sworn you were more of an isthmus... -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
I, also, enjoy George Lepp, but never miss bi-monthly, Dewitt (Basic) Jones. Jack --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/17/2005 9:24:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Outdoor Photographer did that once and mentioned in three separate places in the magazine that they'd done it (and why). They still got complaints about it. I guess OP is kinda like Playboy - people buy it to look at the pictures, not read the print ;-) -- Mark Roberts == Hehehehe. Never heard it put that way. Although, I subscribe to OP and mainly look at the pictures and rarely read the articles (except Lepp's). So I guess you are right. Hehehehe. Marnie aka Doe ;-) __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Outdoor Photographer did that once and mentioned in three separate places in the magazine that they'd done it (and why). They still got complaints about it. I guess OP is kinda like Playboy - people buy it to look at the pictures, not read the print ;-) Hehehehe. Never heard it put that way. Although, I subscribe to OP and mainly look at the pictures and rarely read the articles (except Lepp's). So I guess you are right. I used to buy OP mainly for the Galen Rowell column, to be truthful. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
LOL! Tom C. From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 19:59:03 -0500 No man is an island. Yes but some of us are peninsulas. Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas I guess that makes two of us, or three of us... Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:25:09 -0800 (PST) OKAY! So there is someone else color challenged. Actually, I still don't know if Jens was being facetious. I don't think he's responded to my remarks. Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well this cracks me up Jack... won't rub it in though... I promise. :-) Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:52:20 -0800 (PST) Jens, Thanks...I think(?) Your great color remark may be in support of those who actually like Velvia's color pallet. This image was put up, per Kostas' request, and as an example of why I dislike Velvia. This shot was probably on my first roll of Velvia and one of the reasons I discontinued its use. A roll or two later, my gag threshold warned me to stop. I'm truly grateful for the positive remarks. Jack --- Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is very nice, Jack. Great colours. Great picture. Regards Jens Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 10. december 2005 21:23 Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Emne: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas PLEASE BE RIGHT THIS TIME!! Kostas, here is the example of Velvia you requested. Forgot link and was wrong in a second attempt. You may have read my comments in the earlier attempt. Jack http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=96 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
In a message dated 12/17/2005 10:21:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes but some of us are peninsulas. Kenneth Waller I am beginning to think we need some pun handicapping around here. You, Ken, get the highest handicap. Marnie aka Doe ;-)
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
I actually started looking foward to each issue of OP because I knew there was something he would write that I would just despise. That's sort of sick (of me) in way. Being a photographer, his photographic work is his legacy, not his writing... Tom C. From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 20:46:59 -0600 - Original Message - From: Mark Roberts Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) I really liked his written work, to. Not necessarily the prose but the ideas. Getting past the prose was always my problem. William Robb
RE: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
[...] Outdoor Photographer did that once and mentioned in three separate places in the magazine that they'd done it (and why). They still got complaints about it. I guess OP is kinda like Playboy - people buy it to look at the pictures, not read the print ;-) are you sure? I thought it was for the articles about cars! Bob
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
I don't understand why anyone would find him pompous, let alone a twit. I admit to never having met the guy, but he certainly didn't cloud his photography with philosophical new age mumbo jumbo and mysticism as often seen when other, less talented (outdoor)photographers trying to explain their art. Rowell based his vision of sound scientific facts and he basically tried to make pleasing and effective images with no mysteries involved. Pål I'll have to go to the library and find some old OP issues then. Tom C.
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Dewitt Jones has long been my favorite OP writer. I like his ideas on how to look at things and find the shot. Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 09:39:06 -0800 (PST) I, also, enjoy George Lepp, but never miss bi-monthly, Dewitt (Basic) Jones. Jack --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/17/2005 9:24:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Outdoor Photographer did that once and mentioned in three separate places in the magazine that they'd done it (and why). They still got complaints about it. I guess OP is kinda like Playboy - people buy it to look at the pictures, not read the print ;-) -- Mark Roberts == Hehehehe. Never heard it put that way. Although, I subscribe to OP and mainly look at the pictures and rarely read the articles (except Lepp's). So I guess you are right. Hehehehe. Marnie aka Doe ;-) __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Pål Jensen wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't think he was a pompous twit. I think he was a darn fine photographer with a unique vision and style. Someone not easy to dismiss and someone who will be long remembered by many people. I don't understand why anyone would find him pompous, let alone a twit. I admit to never having met the guy, but he certainly didn't cloud his photography with philosophical new age mumbo jumbo and mysticism as often seen when other, less talented (outdoor)photographers trying to explain their art. Rowell based his vision of sound scientific facts and he basically tried to make pleasing and effective images with no mysteries involved. Pål I'd rather read Rowell than Rockwell any time. People actually buy Rowell's books. Rockwell has to give his prose away for free on his website, and it's still vastly overpriced. :-)
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
I have a pro friend who shares my opinion about Galen's writing and with whom I agree when he says; Dewitt is someone I'd like to go shooting with. Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dewitt Jones has long been my favorite OP writer. I like his ideas on how to look at things and find the shot. Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 09:39:06 -0800 (PST) I, also, enjoy George Lepp, but never miss bi-monthly, Dewitt (Basic) Jones. Jack --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/17/2005 9:24:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Outdoor Photographer did that once and mentioned in three separate places in the magazine that they'd done it (and why). They still got complaints about it. I guess OP is kinda like Playboy - people buy it to look at the pictures, not read the print ;-) -- Mark Roberts == Hehehehe. Never heard it put that way. Although, I subscribe to OP and mainly look at the pictures and rarely read the articles (except Lepp's). So I guess you are right. Hehehehe. Marnie aka Doe ;-) __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Tom C wrote: Dewitt Jones has long been my favorite OP writer. I like his ideas on how to look at things and find the shot. Ah yes, Dewitt I shoot for National Geographic Jones. Way more mentions of shooting for NG in his columns than there are mentions of him in NG's index.
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
I'm sure Cotty will swear he's continent. Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16/12/05, Kenneth Waller, discombobulated, unleashed: No man is an island. Yes but some of us are peninsulas. LOL. Nice one. I'm more of a promontory. Funny, I could have sworn you were more of an isthmus... -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
At 02:01 PM 12/17/2005, E.R.N. Reed wrote: Tom C wrote: Dewitt Jones has long been my favorite OP writer. I like his ideas on how to look at things and find the shot. Ah yes, Dewitt I shoot for National Geographic Jones. Way more mentions of shooting for NG in his columns than there are mentions of him in NG's index. I'm not familiar with Dewitt Jones and how often he brings up that fact, but I have to say that if I had shot for National Geographic, I would have to mention it at least a few times in public. ;) take care, Glen I haven't shot for National Geographic... yet. Berry
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Being a photographer, his photographic work is his legacy, not his writing... Tom C. Agreed. Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) I actually started looking foward to each issue of OP because I knew there was something he would write that I would just despise. That's sort of sick (of me) in way. Being a photographer, his photographic work is his legacy, not his writing... Tom C. From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 20:46:59 -0600 - Original Message - From: Mark Roberts Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) I really liked his written work, to. Not necessarily the prose but the ideas. Getting past the prose was always my problem. William Robb
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
- Original Message - From: E.R.N. Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ah yes, Dewitt I shoot for National Geographic Jones. Way more mentions of shooting for NG in his columns than there are mentions of him in NG's index. Dewitt Jones was the one who gave Rowell his first National Geographic assignment... Pål
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
- Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll have to go to the library and find some old OP issues then. Better read his book Mountan light. Incidentally, his OP columns are published in book form as Galen Rowell's Vision: The Art of Adventure Photography and Galen Rowell's Inner Game of Outdoor Photography. All mandatory reading if you're interested in this type of photography. Pål
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Or incontinent.. Jack --- Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure Cotty will swear he's continent. Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16/12/05, Kenneth Waller, discombobulated, unleashed: No man is an island. Yes but some of us are peninsulas. LOL. Nice one. I'm more of a promontory. Funny, I could have sworn you were more of an isthmus... -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
I can allow that Dewitt has written for NG without jealousy or resentment. Jack --- Glen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 02:01 PM 12/17/2005, E.R.N. Reed wrote: Tom C wrote: Dewitt Jones has long been my favorite OP writer. I like his ideas on how to look at things and find the shot. Ah yes, Dewitt I shoot for National Geographic Jones. Way more mentions of shooting for NG in his columns than there are mentions of him in NG's index. I'm not familiar with Dewitt Jones and how often he brings up that fact, but I have to say that if I had shot for National Geographic, I would have to mention it at least a few times in public. ;) take care, Glen I haven't shot for National Geographic... yet. Berry __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
No man is an island. Yes but some of us are peninsulas. LOL. Nice one. I'm more of a promontory. Funny, I could have sworn you were more of an isthmus... I wouldn't mind meeting some nice young bays. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Incidentally, his OP columns are published in book form as Galen Rowell's Vision: The Art of Adventure Photography and Galen Rowell's Inner Game of Outdoor Photography. All mandatory reading if you're interested in this type of photography. Inner Game of Outdoor Photography is effing brilliant. Haven't read the other one. Yet. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Cotty wrote: No man is an island. Yes but some of us are peninsulas. LOL. Nice one. I'm more of a promontory. Funny, I could have sworn you were more of an isthmus... I wouldn't mind meeting some nice young bays. I knew it! Pining for the fjords, again.
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
- Original Message - From: Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] Inner Game of Outdoor Photography is effing brilliant. Haven't read the other one. Yet. Then you would certainly find vision equally brilliant as it is exactly in the same vein... PÅL
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/17/2005 8:47:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I read Rowell all the time back in the day when I got photo mags. ann sad === Uh, ann, a couple of years ago. I am sure someone else can pinpoint the date. Marnie aka Doe ugh - it sounded LIke I'd just missed an obit - But I do spend a lot of time wondering if this or that movie star or author is alive or deceased or what have you I honestly didn't remember Rowell had died - not even a glimmer ... ann the embarrassed P.s. (i see have 57 undread messages in this trhead after yours so I think I'm gonn catch it.)
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Thanks Jack - The date tells me why I missed this news I wasn't on list and I was driving 500 miles a day - an unusual thing for me... and the news on the car radio was minimal. I also missed how he got in to a discussion here this week :) ann Jack Davis wrote: Aug. 11, '02. (Born in 1940) Killed, along with his wife, Barbara and two other passengers (I believe) in a plane crash that happened on landing approach to the Bishop, CA airport. In this case, his wife was not piloting the plane which was returning from an Alaskan shoot. Jack --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/17/2005 8:47:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I read Rowell all the time back in the day when I got photo mags. ann sad === Uh, ann, a couple of years ago. I am sure someone else can pinpoint the date. Marnie aka Doe __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
- Original Message - From: Cotty Subject: Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas I wouldn't mind meeting some nice young bays. Just don't fly Quantas... WW
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
- Original Message - From: Pål Jensen Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) Getting past the prose was always my problem. I have no problems with his prose but then English isn't my first language... I don't think it was his either. :-) William Robb
RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Jens, Thanks...I think(?) Your great color remark may be in support of those who actually like Velvia's color pallet. This image was put up, per Kostas' request, and as an example of why I dislike Velvia. This shot was probably on my first roll of Velvia and one of the reasons I discontinued its use. A roll or two later, my gag threshold warned me to stop. I'm truly grateful for the positive remarks. Jack --- Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is very nice, Jack. Great colours. Great picture. Regards Jens Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 10. december 2005 21:23 Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Emne: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas PLEASE BE RIGHT THIS TIME!! Kostas, here is the example of Velvia you requested. Forgot link and was wrong in a second attempt. You may have read my comments in the earlier attempt. Jack http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=96 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Well this cracks me up Jack... won't rub it in though... I promise. :-) Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:52:20 -0800 (PST) Jens, Thanks...I think(?) Your great color remark may be in support of those who actually like Velvia's color pallet. This image was put up, per Kostas' request, and as an example of why I dislike Velvia. This shot was probably on my first roll of Velvia and one of the reasons I discontinued its use. A roll or two later, my gag threshold warned me to stop. I'm truly grateful for the positive remarks. Jack --- Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is very nice, Jack. Great colours. Great picture. Regards Jens Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 10. december 2005 21:23 Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Emne: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas PLEASE BE RIGHT THIS TIME!! Kostas, here is the example of Velvia you requested. Forgot link and was wrong in a second attempt. You may have read my comments in the earlier attempt. Jack http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=96 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
OKAY! So there is someone else color challenged. Actually, I still don't know if Jens was being facetious. I don't think he's responded to my remarks. Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well this cracks me up Jack... won't rub it in though... I promise. :-) Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:52:20 -0800 (PST) Jens, Thanks...I think(?) Your great color remark may be in support of those who actually like Velvia's color pallet. This image was put up, per Kostas' request, and as an example of why I dislike Velvia. This shot was probably on my first roll of Velvia and one of the reasons I discontinued its use. A roll or two later, my gag threshold warned me to stop. I'm truly grateful for the positive remarks. Jack --- Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is very nice, Jack. Great colours. Great picture. Regards Jens Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 10. december 2005 21:23 Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Emne: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas PLEASE BE RIGHT THIS TIME!! Kostas, here is the example of Velvia you requested. Forgot link and was wrong in a second attempt. You may have read my comments in the earlier attempt. Jack http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=96 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:25 PM Subject: RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas OKAY! So there is someone else color challenged. Personally, I think anyone liking ProviaF to be color challenged. In my color vision that film is truly bizarre. I find Velvia saturated but accurate in the way that it doesn't display colors that wasn't there. Kodachrome is also weird but I eventually learned to believe that the world was supposed to look Kodachrome-like after being exposed to it for years through the printed media. I just don't buy that argument that Velvia is different from other films in picturing reality. It is a matter of taste. Galen Rowell: The truth is that a film can no more match the way our visual system constructs color than a silicon chip can match the way our carbon-based brain cells construct consciousness. Pål
RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
No man is an island. I guess that makes two of us, or three of us... Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:25:09 -0800 (PST) OKAY! So there is someone else color challenged. Actually, I still don't know if Jens was being facetious. I don't think he's responded to my remarks. Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well this cracks me up Jack... won't rub it in though... I promise. :-) Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:52:20 -0800 (PST) Jens, Thanks...I think(?) Your great color remark may be in support of those who actually like Velvia's color pallet. This image was put up, per Kostas' request, and as an example of why I dislike Velvia. This shot was probably on my first roll of Velvia and one of the reasons I discontinued its use. A roll or two later, my gag threshold warned me to stop. I'm truly grateful for the positive remarks. Jack --- Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is very nice, Jack. Great colours. Great picture. Regards Jens Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 10. december 2005 21:23 Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Emne: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas PLEASE BE RIGHT THIS TIME!! Kostas, here is the example of Velvia you requested. Forgot link and was wrong in a second attempt. You may have read my comments in the earlier attempt. Jack http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=96 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
My reality is set, as stated, and the redundant offering of your reality continues as an exercise in futility. I was never a fan of the prose of Galen Rowell. Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:25 PM Subject: RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas OKAY! So there is someone else color challenged. Personally, I think anyone liking ProviaF to be color challenged. In my color vision that film is truly bizarre. I find Velvia saturated but accurate in the way that it doesn't display colors that wasn't there. Kodachrome is also weird but I eventually learned to believe that the world was supposed to look Kodachrome-like after being exposed to it for years through the printed media. I just don't buy that argument that Velvia is different from other films in picturing reality. It is a matter of taste. Galen Rowell: The truth is that a film can no more match the way our visual system constructs color than a silicon chip can match the way our carbon-based brain cells construct consciousness. Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
So let me get this right, Pål ... If I say I like Provia F, it seems I am 'color challenged'. But when you say you like Velvia, that is just 'a matter of taste'. Thank you for making that so very, very clear. g Colin Original Message Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 19:41:35 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=E5l_Jensen?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:25 PM Subject: RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas OKAY! So there is someone else color challenged. Personally, I think anyone liking ProviaF to be color challenged. In my color vision that film is truly bizarre. I find Velvia saturated but accurate in the way that it doesn't display colors that wasn't there. Kodachrome is also weird but I eventually learned to believe that the world was supposed to look Kodachrome-like after being exposed to it for years through the printed media. I just don't buy that argument that Velvia is different from other films in picturing reality. It is a matter of taste. Galen Rowell: The truth is that a film can no more match the way our visual system constructs color than a silicon chip can match the way our carbon-based brain cells construct consciousness. Pål -- ___ Yahoo! Exclusive Xmas Game, help Santa with his celebrity party - http://santas-christmas-party.yahoo.net/
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
- Original Message - From: Colin J [EMAIL PROTECTED] If I say I like Provia F, it seems I am 'color challenged'. But when you say you like Velvia, that is just 'a matter of taste'. Thank you for making that so very, very clear. I was trying to turn the argument stated the other way around showing how meaningless it was. Anyway, I do personally think that off colors are more objectionable than saturated colors. Others may be of a different opinion. Pål
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] My reality is set, as stated, and the redundant offering of your reality continues as an exercise in futility. The point is that it has nothing to do with reality. It is your taste you hint at representing some universal truth that is an excercise in futility. The truth, however, is that Velvia isn't more off a reality than any other film. The fact that some doesn't like Velvia, or any other film for that matter, is fine by me. It is after all a matter of taste. What is rather tiring is that reality is used as some justification for this view indicating that is based on something more worthwhile than mere taste. This is of course nonsense as your color vision or view of reality isn't anymore valid than any others. Pål
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
I was never a fan of the prose of Galen Rowell. Jack I'm with you there. I liked his photographic work much more than his writing. He struck me, IIRC, as a little too above it all. Maybe I was just jealous. Tom C.
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Pal, you are fixated on the word saturation. As it applies to Velvia, saturation is the least of its problems. Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Colin J [EMAIL PROTECTED] If I say I like Provia F, it seems I am 'color challenged'. But when you say you like Velvia, that is just 'a matter of taste'. Thank you for making that so very, very clear. I was trying to turn the argument stated the other way around showing how meaningless it was. Anyway, I do personally think that off colors are more objectionable than saturated colors. Others may be of a different opinion. Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
- Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm with you there. I liked his photographic work much more than his writing. He struck me, IIRC, as a little too above it all. Maybe I was just jealous. I like his writing even better than his photography. Considering how much I like his photography that says a lot! In my opinion he was the best writer on outdoor photography ever and his death was a great tragic loss for outdoor photographers everywhere. Pål
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Pal, Here, try this; my taste is a product of my reality. I rest my case. Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] My reality is set, as stated, and the redundant offering of your reality continues as an exercise in futility. The point is that it has nothing to do with reality. It is your taste you hint at representing some universal truth that is an excercise in futility. The truth, however, is that Velvia isn't more off a reality than any other film. The fact that some doesn't like Velvia, or any other film for that matter, is fine by me. It is after all a matter of taste. What is rather tiring is that reality is used as some justification for this view indicating that is based on something more worthwhile than mere taste. This is of course nonsense as your color vision or view of reality isn't anymore valid than any others. Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Here's a sample: http://www.robertstech.com/graphics/pages/gfm_06.htm -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Yeah, I'd recognize those blue rocks a lavender sky tones as those of an un-retouched Velvia shot. Jack --- Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a sample: http://www.robertstech.com/graphics/pages/gfm_06.htm -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
- Original Message - From: Tom C Subject: Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas I'm with you there. I liked his photographic work much more than his writing. He struck me, IIRC, as a little too above it all. Maybe I was just jealous. I know it isn't nice to speak ill of the dead, but Galen always struck me as a pompous twit. You wanna meet real photographic genius, spend a day shooting with Courtney Milne. William Robb
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
No man is an island. Yes but some of us are peninsulas. Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas I guess that makes two of us, or three of us... Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:25:09 -0800 (PST) OKAY! So there is someone else color challenged. Actually, I still don't know if Jens was being facetious. I don't think he's responded to my remarks. Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well this cracks me up Jack... won't rub it in though... I promise. :-) Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 06:52:20 -0800 (PST) Jens, Thanks...I think(?) Your great color remark may be in support of those who actually like Velvia's color pallet. This image was put up, per Kostas' request, and as an example of why I dislike Velvia. This shot was probably on my first roll of Velvia and one of the reasons I discontinued its use. A roll or two later, my gag threshold warned me to stop. I'm truly grateful for the positive remarks. Jack --- Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is very nice, Jack. Great colours. Great picture. Regards Jens Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 10. december 2005 21:23 Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Emne: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas PLEASE BE RIGHT THIS TIME!! Kostas, here is the example of Velvia you requested. Forgot link and was wrong in a second attempt. You may have read my comments in the earlier attempt. Jack http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=96 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Years ago I visited his studio in the Bay area was absolutely blown away by his images. Seeing them in in magazine just didn't do them justice. I felt I could step into them when I saw them in person. A Rowell gallery is still in operation in Bishop, Ca. Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm with you there. I liked his photographic work much more than his writing. He struck me, IIRC, as a little too above it all. Maybe I was just jealous. I like his writing even better than his photography. Considering how much I like his photography that says a lot! In my opinion he was the best writer on outdoor photography ever and his death was a great tragic loss for outdoor photographers everywhere. Pål
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
On 16 Dec 2005 at 19:41, Pål Jensen wrote: Personally, I think anyone liking ProviaF to be color challenged. In my color vision that film is truly bizarre. I find Velvia saturated but accurate in the way that it doesn't display colors that wasn't there. Kodachrome is also weird but I eventually learned to believe that the world was supposed to look Kodachrome-like after being exposed to it for years through the printed media. I just don't buy that argument that Velvia is different from other films in picturing reality. It is a matter of taste. I suspect that after you have settled in with you new scanner and start appreciating the finer aspects of digital colour management and control you'll also come to appreciate Provia and print films for that matter. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Years ago I visited his studio in the Bay area was absolutely blown away by his images. Seeing them in in magazine just didn't do them justice. I felt I could step into them when I saw them in person. A Rowell gallery is still in operation in Bishop, Ca. It's on my list of photographic pilgrimages to make some day. I really liked his written work, to. Not necessarily the prose but the ideas. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
He had a swaggering literary style and was a Nikon bigot. I pointed that out to him in a letter years ago. A few years later, as it happened, I was shooting some Colorado fall and we happened to be at the same place at the same time. I didn't mention the critical letter. It's possible I should assign some of the blame to the wimp Editors, but then, they may deserve some pompous-reducing kudos. Jack --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Tom C Subject: Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas I'm with you there. I liked his photographic work much more than his writing. He struck me, IIRC, as a little too above it all. Maybe I was just jealous. I know it isn't nice to speak ill of the dead, but Galen always struck me as a pompous twit. You wanna meet real photographic genius, spend a day shooting with Courtney Milne. William Robb __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
He had every advantage possible in accessing seriously skilled pros to be involved in applying the latest technology to printing his work. His memory, however, does deserve credit for having placed himself in that position. Jack --- Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Years ago I visited his studio in the Bay area was absolutely blown away by his images. Seeing them in in magazine just didn't do them justice. I felt I could step into them when I saw them in person. A Rowell gallery is still in operation in Bishop, Ca. Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm with you there. I liked his photographic work much more than his writing. He struck me, IIRC, as a little too above it all. Maybe I was just jealous. I like his writing even better than his photography. Considering how much I like his photography that says a lot! In my opinion he was the best writer on outdoor photography ever and his death was a great tragic loss for outdoor photographers everywhere. Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas)
- Original Message - From: Mark Roberts Subject: Re: Galen Rowell (WAS: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas) I really liked his written work, to. Not necessarily the prose but the ideas. Getting past the prose was always my problem. William Robb
RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
This is very nice, Jack. Great colours. Great picture. Regards Jens Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 10. december 2005 21:23 Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Emne: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas PLEASE BE RIGHT THIS TIME!! Kostas, here is the example of Velvia you requested. Forgot link and was wrong in a second attempt. You may have read my comments in the earlier attempt. Jack http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=96 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
I can see that you're an agitator Actually he's a spin doctor. Kenneth Waller -Original Message- From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas I can see that you're an agitator Some of the puns may be really Fab, but the list will Gain nothing of value from them. That's All for now ... Shel Louis J.Abolafia Fan Club [Original Message] From: William Robb I'm sure you're going to Bounce right back to your gentle self. =] I see a bunch of puns coming in on the Tide PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com
RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Tom wrote: OK... Jack... now show us a shot that's in focus or where there's not a breeze... I think the colors of the leaves and such are just fine... obviously shot in low light with a lot of contrast, hence the very dark almost silhouette... but I don't find the colors, which are supposed to be bright and vibrant based on the subject, unnatural or unappealing. The fact that Velvia has been by far and away the leading landscape nature film for just about the last 15 years says that many people, including those making a living, and 'pros' don't agree. I was expecting you'd show us a picture where the colors are grossly distorted. This doesn't look that way to me. I've been using Velvia since it came out and can display quite a number of shots that have had widespead appeal (from those who have viewed them). REPLY: Right. One of the reason Velvia became the benchmark for outdoor use is that it actually convey the concept or green or yellow for that matter, something that is not always true for other films. There are no film known to man that copy the world as it is. Our brain doesn't see the world as it is either. We do heavy processing of the image in the brain. Velvia is saturated, true, but it isn't off (like many other realistic films - eg Provia whose skies can be found nowhere on Earth!). And if saturated colors are so bad, what do we make out of black and white? It is certanly not real! Photography is such an artifical input that you cannot make an sucessful image by just copying reality... Pål
RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Pål Jensen wrote: Right. One of the reason Velvia became the benchmark for outdoor use is that it actually convey the concept or green or yellow for that matter, something that is not always true for other films. There are no film known to man that copy the world as it is. Our brain doesn't see the world as it is either. We do heavy processing of the image in the brain. Velvia is saturated, true, but it isn't off (like many other realistic films - eg Provia whose skies can be found nowhere on Earth!). And if saturated colors are so bad, what do we make out of black and white? It is certanly not real! Photography is such an artifical input that you cannot make an sucessful image by just copying reality... Those are good points that almost can't be overstressed. For the most part we want our pictures to look 'real'. That's pretty much impossible but we try to get close. My real is different from your real is different from Jack's real. Now the website Rob Studdert showed us with the gross cartoonlike colors, where there was additional saturation added on top of Velvia, was over the top and too much. But even then... well if the images sell that's a shame but... but that's not Velvia out of the box either. Most night shots are not 'real' (really the way it looked to the human eye) and shots taken with split density filters are not 'real', and blurred waterfalls are not 'real'... Tom C. (I reject your reality and substitute one of my own). :-)
RE: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Hi, Pal, You're, of course, right in your statement that no image capture will exactly replicate nature as presented to one's eye. All is relative. 'Close to honest' is my standard in this medium. I, also, agree that Velvia's greens and yellows are less offensive than others in this film's unique spectrum. I'm re-posting the original image requested by Kostas. This gives you the chance to review the offending hues mentioned. Saturation, in it's self, shouldn't be condemned, but the eye can not be tricked beyond a point frequently ignored by many shooters unable to resist the 'power' offered through PS. http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=96 Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom wrote: OK... Jack... now show us a shot that's in focus or where there's not a breeze... I think the colors of the leaves and such are just fine... obviously shot in low light with a lot of contrast, hence the very dark almost silhouette... but I don't find the colors, which are supposed to be bright and vibrant based on the subject, unnatural or unappealing. The fact that Velvia has been by far and away the leading landscape nature film for just about the last 15 years says that many people, including those making a living, and 'pros' don't agree. I was expecting you'd show us a picture where the colors are grossly distorted. This doesn't look that way to me. I've been using Velvia since it came out and can display quite a number of shots that have had widespead appeal (from those who have viewed them). REPLY: Right. One of the reason Velvia became the benchmark for outdoor use is that it actually convey the concept or green or yellow for that matter, something that is not always true for other films. There are no film known to man that copy the world as it is. Our brain doesn't see the world as it is either. We do heavy processing of the image in the brain. Velvia is saturated, true, but it isn't off (like many other realistic films - eg Provia whose skies can be found nowhere on Earth!). And if saturated colors are so bad, what do we make out of black and white? It is certanly not real! Photography is such an artifical input that you cannot make an sucessful image by just copying reality... Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] You're, of course, right in your statement that no image capture will exactly replicate nature as presented to one's eye. All is relative. 'Close to honest' is my standard in this medium. I, also, agree that Velvia's greens and yellows are less offensive than others in this film's unique spectrum. I'm re-posting the original image requested by Kostas. This gives you the chance to review the offending hues mentioned. Saturation, in it's self, shouldn't be condemned, but the eye can not be tricked beyond a point frequently ignored by many shooters unable to resist the 'power' offered through PS. http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=96 Theres seem to be a magenta cast in this image. It is, however, impossible to say if it is supposed to be there or not. Remember that the brain filters out (most) color cast of the light while film doesn't. There might have been magenta cast to the clouds (hence the light) for all we know. Anyway, Velvia do not suffer from magenta cast and if it does there might be something with the processing. It is basically impossible to tell. The fact is that Velvia dosn't really display color cast. Kodachrome are often magentaish or greenish. Provia often steel blue etc...but Velvia is just saturated. However, due to its high saturation the color of the light, often invisible to human eyes, might get accentuated. Pål
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
It's that consistent bothersome color cast that caused myself and a number of like responders to end our use of the film some time back. I use Provia 100F and my favorite, Astia 100F. Much closer to what my fuzzy eyes like. Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] You're, of course, right in your statement that no image capture will exactly replicate nature as presented to one's eye. All is relative. 'Close to honest' is my standard in this medium. I, also, agree that Velvia's greens and yellows are less offensive than others in this film's unique spectrum. I'm re-posting the original image requested by Kostas. This gives you the chance to review the offending hues mentioned. Saturation, in it's self, shouldn't be condemned, but the eye can not be tricked beyond a point frequently ignored by many shooters unable to resist the 'power' offered through PS. http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=96 Theres seem to be a magenta cast in this image. It is, however, impossible to say if it is supposed to be there or not. Remember that the brain filters out (most) color cast of the light while film doesn't. There might have been magenta cast to the clouds (hence the light) for all we know. Anyway, Velvia do not suffer from magenta cast and if it does there might be something with the processing. It is basically impossible to tell. The fact is that Velvia dosn't really display color cast. Kodachrome are often magentaish or greenish. Provia often steel blue etc...but Velvia is just saturated. However, due to its high saturation the color of the light, often invisible to human eyes, might get accentuated. Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
On 13 Dec 2005 at 12:05, Jack Davis wrote: It's that consistent bothersome color cast that caused myself and a number of like responders to end our use of the film some time back. I use Provia 100F and my favorite, Astia 100F. Much closer to what my fuzzy eyes like. I haven't shot Velvia since Provia was released, I'd love to know the actual sales ratio between the two films. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
In this era of societal haze, none but the most piercing din of sound and color make it through. This is not directed at anyone contributing to the list, but to the general population. I see Velvia often identified by serious published photographers , but it may be partially due to its resolving properties. The color can be delt with in PS. Jack --- Rob Studdert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 13 Dec 2005 at 12:05, Jack Davis wrote: It's that consistent bothersome color cast that caused myself and a number of like responders to end our use of the film some time back. I use Provia 100F and my favorite, Astia 100F. Much closer to what my fuzzy eyes like. I haven't shot Velvia since Provia was released, I'd love to know the actual sales ratio between the two films. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Interesting... I don't recall having a color cast problem. Here's three I shot which do not have a color cast, at least not to my eyes. http://pug.komkon.org/00febr/WoodenBoats.htm http://pug.komkon.org/01jul/pinenuts.html http://pug.komkon.org/01nov/docked.html http://pug.komkon.org/01sep/oldsnag.html However, after doing a little googling around, it's apparent that others feel as you do Jack... I still wonder if it's more of a processing issue... Just one of many sites: http://www.dl-c.com/Velvia%20vs%20Provia%20100F/Velvia%20vs%20Provia%20100F.html Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:05:55 -0800 (PST) It's that consistent bothersome color cast that caused myself and a number of like responders to end our use of the film some time back. I use Provia 100F and my favorite, Astia 100F. Much closer to what my fuzzy eyes like. Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] You're, of course, right in your statement that no image capture will exactly replicate nature as presented to one's eye. All is relative. 'Close to honest' is my standard in this medium. I, also, agree that Velvia's greens and yellows are less offensive than others in this film's unique spectrum. I'm re-posting the original image requested by Kostas. This gives you the chance to review the offending hues mentioned. Saturation, in it's self, shouldn't be condemned, but the eye can not be tricked beyond a point frequently ignored by many shooters unable to resist the 'power' offered through PS. http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=96 Theres seem to be a magenta cast in this image. It is, however, impossible to say if it is supposed to be there or not. Remember that the brain filters out (most) color cast of the light while film doesn't. There might have been magenta cast to the clouds (hence the light) for all we know. Anyway, Velvia do not suffer from magenta cast and if it does there might be something with the processing. It is basically impossible to tell. The fact is that Velvia dosn't really display color cast. Kodachrome are often magentaish or greenish. Provia often steel blue etc...but Velvia is just saturated. However, due to its high saturation the color of the light, often invisible to human eyes, might get accentuated. Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
On 13 Dec 2005 at 14:49, Jack Davis wrote: I see Velvia often identified by serious published photographers , but it may be partially due to its resolving properties. The color can be delt with in PS. But only to the detriment of subtle detail lost in the saturation. Also there is virtually nothing between the two films resolution wise when scanning at 4000dpi or below and for anyone shooting medium format it's an academic comparison at best. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas The color can be delt with in PS. Velvia has been around for much longer than the ability to scan slides, and very popular since it was first introduced. William Robb
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
- Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interesting... I don't recall having a color cast problem. There is no color cast problem with Velvia. Interestingly, there is indeed one for Provia F (at least the first few years - maybe they've fixed it now); a rather unpleasant (in my opinion) greyish bluish cast. Pål
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
- Original Message - From: Rob Studdert [EMAIL PROTECTED] But only to the detriment of subtle detail lost in the saturation. True. In addition, Velvias high contrast and narrow latitude is a problem. I have no problems with the colors however, although high saturations isn't suitable for all subjects...
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
According to the link I displayed, he thought Provia had a yellowish cast. I wonder if the power of suggestion and the makining of a comparison do not come into play. With wine it seems, the suggestion of the label or someone else's comments can easily influence others (and myself to taste those very same flavors). Possibly comparing film A to film B, neither of which may be neutral, and both of which may tend towards opposite directions in the spectrum, one can reach a conclusion that is different from what would otherwise be held. Of course subjectivity may indeed be the primary difference. Tom C. From: Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:29:15 +0100 - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interesting... I don't recall having a color cast problem. There is no color cast problem with Velvia. Interestingly, there is indeed one for Provia F (at least the first few years - maybe they've fixed it now); a rather unpleasant (in my opinion) greyish bluish cast. Pål
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
On 13 Dec 2005 at 16:40, Tom C wrote: According to the link I displayed, he thought Provia had a yellowish cast. I wonder if the power of suggestion and the makining of a comparison do not come into play. With wine it seems, the suggestion of the label or someone else's comments can easily influence others (and myself to taste those very same flavors). Possibly comparing film A to film B, neither of which may be neutral, and both of which may tend towards opposite directions in the spectrum, one can reach a conclusion that is different from what would otherwise be held. Of course subjectivity may indeed be the primary difference. It's worse than that in the page you cited, in the testing methodology there is no indication of how the scanner was colour calibrated or assessed to begin with so the RAW scan has an unknown colour bias to start with. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Honestly, every Velvia image appears overly juiced and tends to reflect an un-natural purple-pumped hue. Greens are artificial to the point of appearing almost cartoon like. These comments may seem somewhat strong, but as noted above, this is my honest, maybe overly sensitive, reaction to Velvia. Now I'm going to read some more comments. Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting... I don't recall having a color cast problem. Here's three I shot which do not have a color cast, at least not to my eyes. http://pug.komkon.org/00febr/WoodenBoats.htm http://pug.komkon.org/01jul/pinenuts.html http://pug.komkon.org/01nov/docked.html http://pug.komkon.org/01sep/oldsnag.html However, after doing a little googling around, it's apparent that others feel as you do Jack... I still wonder if it's more of a processing issue... Just one of many sites: http://www.dl-c.com/Velvia%20vs%20Provia%20100F/Velvia%20vs%20Provia%20100F.html Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:05:55 -0800 (PST) It's that consistent bothersome color cast that caused myself and a number of like responders to end our use of the film some time back. I use Provia 100F and my favorite, Astia 100F. Much closer to what my fuzzy eyes like. Jack --- Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] You're, of course, right in your statement that no image capture will exactly replicate nature as presented to one's eye. All is relative. 'Close to honest' is my standard in this medium. I, also, agree that Velvia's greens and yellows are less offensive than others in this film's unique spectrum. I'm re-posting the original image requested by Kostas. This gives you the chance to review the offending hues mentioned. Saturation, in it's self, shouldn't be condemned, but the eye can not be tricked beyond a point frequently ignored by many shooters unable to resist the 'power' offered through PS. http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=96 Theres seem to be a magenta cast in this image. It is, however, impossible to say if it is supposed to be there or not. Remember that the brain filters out (most) color cast of the light while film doesn't. There might have been magenta cast to the clouds (hence the light) for all we know. Anyway, Velvia do not suffer from magenta cast and if it does there might be something with the processing. It is basically impossible to tell. The fact is that Velvia dosn't really display color cast. Kodachrome are often magentaish or greenish. Provia often steel blue etc...but Velvia is just saturated. However, due to its high saturation the color of the light, often invisible to human eyes, might get accentuated. Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Black is black I want my baby back It's gray, it's gray Since she went away, Ooh-Ooh What can I do 'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue. Tom C. From: Rob Studdert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:52:48 +1000 On 13 Dec 2005 at 16:40, Tom C wrote: According to the link I displayed, he thought Provia had a yellowish cast. I wonder if the power of suggestion and the makining of a comparison do not come into play. With wine it seems, the suggestion of the label or someone else's comments can easily influence others (and myself to taste those very same flavors). Possibly comparing film A to film B, neither of which may be neutral, and both of which may tend towards opposite directions in the spectrum, one can reach a conclusion that is different from what would otherwise be held. Of course subjectivity may indeed be the primary difference. It's worse than that in the page you cited, in the testing methodology there is no indication of how the scanner was colour calibrated or assessed to begin with so the RAW scan has an unknown colour bias to start with. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Excellent points. I keep reading only the word saturation applied to Velvia's color. Fuji's color mix for Velvia is completely unique to that film. Jack --- Rob Studdert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 13 Dec 2005 at 14:49, Jack Davis wrote: I see Velvia often identified by serious published photographers , but it may be partially due to its resolving properties. The color can be delt with in PS. But only to the detriment of subtle detail lost in the saturation. Also there is virtually nothing between the two films resolution wise when scanning at 4000dpi or below and for anyone shooting medium format it's an academic comparison at best. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO: Velvia example for Kostas
Fuji's color mix for Velvia is completely unique to that film. Jack As is Kraft's recipe... Tom C.
