Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 12 Apr 2013, at 01:16, Daniel J. Matyola danmaty...@gmail.com wrote: Everyone wants to blame someone, and everyone blames those they disagree with politically. I blame the scapegoats [1] Bob [1] joke shamelessly stolen from John O'Farrel -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
The educational side of this thread has been most interesting. I thought the educational system in SA was very bad but it seems the problems are universal. We have private schools funded by the parents (no Govt. assistance) which have the best facilities and teachers. Costs are very high but results are outstanding. Then we have the Model C schools (the Govt. schools in the former white areas) which are funded partially by parents partially by Govt. The standards are still pretty good but discipline is becoming a problem. Lastly we have the so called township farm schools which are totally (but inadequately) funded by the Govt. The teachers are unionized, discipline is non-existent performance is terrible. There seems to be no political will to redress the situation apart from tampering with syllabi lowering standards to keep the pass rate up. Nevertheless, there have been remarkable results from some of these schools where there remains a nucleus of dedicated teachers (pity they are not all like that). The general demise has also spread to tertiary institutions. Apartheid has been gone for 20 years but still gets the blame. Unfortunately, there is a terrible lingering obsession with race in SA - now a type of reverse apartheid. In the old days, the Coloureds Indians were not white enough - now they are not black enough - eternally caught in the middle. Social tampering, quotas affirmative action are the order of the day. In the end, it really all comes down to politics and the securing of votes. Where do all the politician's children go the school? You guessed it! Alan C -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Alan, I appreciate your comments and insight from outside the USA. My daughter-in-law is a special education teacher in the public schools. This year she sees students who are 2 or 3 years behind in reading or math. But they are the good stories with involved parents. Before this, she taught 5+ years in a 'behavior disorders' classroom. The children, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th graders, were all damaged from birth, having been born to mothers addicted to one thing or another. These single parents barely can keep their own lives together, let alone be involved in their child's education. It's a sad situation I cannot imagine how to solve. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:50 AM, Alan C c...@lantic.net wrote: The educational side of this thread has been most interesting. I thought the educational system in SA was very bad but it seems the problems are universal. We have private schools funded by the parents (no Govt. assistance) which have the best facilities and teachers. Costs are very high but results are outstanding. Then we have the Model C schools (the Govt. schools in the former white areas) which are funded partially by parents partially by Govt. The standards are still pretty good but discipline is becoming a problem. Lastly we have the so called township farm schools which are totally (but inadequately) funded by the Govt. The teachers are unionized, discipline is non-existent performance is terrible. There seems to be no political will to redress the situation apart from tampering with syllabi lowering standards to keep the pass rate up. Nevertheless, there have been remarkable results from some of these schools where there remains a nucleus of dedicated teachers (pity they are not all like that). The general demise has also spread to tertiary institutions. Apartheid has been gone for 20 years but still gets the blame. Unfortunately, there is a terrible lingering obsession with race in SA - now a type of reverse apartheid. In the old days, the Coloureds Indians were not white enough - now they are not black enough - eternally caught in the middle. Social tampering, quotas affirmative action are the order of the day. In the end, it really all comes down to politics and the securing of votes. Where do all the politician's children go the school? You guessed it! Alan C -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 12/04/2013 1:50 AM, Alan C wrote: Apartheid has been gone for 20 years but still gets the blame. You can't fix what was a racial travesty in one generation. Until everyone who lived with Apartheid are dead and buried, Apartheid is going to resonate in your society. We had our own form of systematized racism in Canada towards the native population. Up until about 18 years ago, we had these entities called Residential Schools, whose it was to teach Indian kids to be white. The methods were simple: kidnap native children from their parents (it wasn't called that, but that was the reality), stick them into a large and unfamiliar institution and beat them for using their own language instead of English, and instill into them the core values of white society, which included sexual abuse along with the physical abuse, and then, the ones who were lucky enough to survive were kicked back into a society that didn't want them. They weren't Indians any more, and didn't fit into the native society, and they weren't white (and they were very screwed up people), so they didn't fit into the white society that they had supposedly been prepped for. And so, they became wards of the state, with multi generational welfare, rampant drug and alcohol abuse, and lots of criminal activity and violence. This went on for the better part of a century and a half, and our more conservative elements in Canadian society figure that the problems the natives are having is all the fault of the natives. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Injuns of Canada - Posting photos of street art can get you arrested.
Bill how sad, that Canada treated the real owners of Canada so pathetically. Come to think of it, when I was in Boarding School - run by the Christian Brothers of Ireland - movies were screened every weekend in the School Theater cum Study Room cum Museum. Lots of them were Injuns vs Cowboys / US Army. And you bet the poor Injuns were masacared always lost the war, what with their bows arrows and tomahawks, and the whotes with guns. And we would clap and shout in glee, obviously supporting the white fellas. The poor Injuns were always shown as bad fellas in these films - as kids we were conditioned to think like this. Until I saw The Last Of The Mohicans Pocahontas. what a shame!? I believe these Injuns live a life of hell in the Reserves and Canada still does very little for these once proud people and owners of Canada. Simply put Genocide of a different kind. I have CD of Red Indian Music Dance, and it is so magical, thrilling, peaceful, calm. Well we Indians have not forgotten what the British did to us, my God upto 1947 - until we got our sweet Freedom - midnight of August 15, 1947. And that great speech by Nehru, when the world sleeps, India shall awaken ... Regards. Bipin - from the far away enchanting land. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 10/04/2013 1:49 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: I don't point fingers at other states, let alone other nations. Unfortunately, all humans are subject to corruption, and some will steal as much as they can if there is no fear of prosecution. If you believe that your country is free of corruption, or morally superior to others, you are of course entitled to that opinion. Is the bar set so high that perfection is demanded before comment can be made? If this is the case, we should both shut up, but you first, Canada ranks better than the USA on the corrupt government scale, and we have, by Canadian standards, an especially corrupt government at the moment. If you think that corruption is the only problem with education, I would respecfully disagree. Corruption is the problem that feeds the other ones. Fix that one, the others will fix themselves. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
We live in the Bay Area, California, in a very friendly posh neighborhood. Actually we stay with our daughter. Come Xmas, and our next door neighbor Bob brought us a little Christmas Tree. Now Bob is a very my dear chap, chatty, friendly and ever helpful, but he was perplexed as to why we would not celebrate Christmas. I tried to explain the best I could:- a) we will celebrate Xmas when my daughter has kids, b) we believe in Yeshua as the re-incarnation of that Supreme Being called the Force. We Hindus believe that God comes to earth when ever humanity places themselves in peril or extinction, c) I went to a Roman Catholic Boarding Public School - run by the Christian Brothers of Ireland - and believe in the Birth of Yeshua and the Celebration of His Birth thru Christmas, d) that the Three Wise Men, the Magi, were from the East - I will refrain from saying India to avoid any controversy, e) that where was Yeshua between the ages of 13 30 years - the Bible is quiet on this. I shall again refrain from saying he was in India. Bob was pleased and he came home again that evening with a giant Plum cake. And finally an American education and training did me good - and I repeat again, that it helped me retire happily as an Advisor from one of the largest conglomerates in the world. So how can one fault Americas education system? Note: India has political corruption, poverty, strife what not, but it produces by far some of the the finest Engineering Computer professionals. And India gave some of the finest Mathematics Mathematician to the world - think of our universe without the numeral ZERO. May the Force be with you my PDML Friends. Bipin - from that far away enchanting land. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Sometimes I think irony is just completely wasted on you guys. From: Daniel J. Matyola Do you mean like the right to not have the government telling you when, where, why how to pray, along with who to pray to? I have many complaints about our government, but they have never told me when, where, why and how to pray, or to whom to pray. Dan Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 2:11 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: Do you mean like the right to not have the government telling you when, where, why how to pray, along with who to pray to? From: Daniel J. Matyola Including under god in the pledge of allegiance is hardly worship. It is mostly a recognition that Americans are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that can not be taken away by the government. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 10:53 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: I don't believe in the concept of worship. Methinks your perspective is skewed by your own lens. Marnie aka Doe :-) In a message dated 4/9/2013 5:49:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pnstenqu...@comcast.net writes: Methinks they doth protest too much -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
From: Boris Liberman On 4/10/2013 9:38 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: We've had universal public educate for more than 200 years. It didn't work. It worked very well between approx 1950 and 1980 in Soviet Union. Worked well right here in the U.S.A. between the Great Depression Reaganomics. Worked for the majority anyway. The breakdown started when the Supreme Court decided that Separate but Equal was in no way ever going to be equal, so it was no longer gonna' be allowed to be separate either. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frgRNN7pF30 From: Eactivist Well, the gong on the gong show went bong. Actually, what I mean was boing! Okay, Larry, I'll bite, tell me, what is the first? Marnie aka Doe ;-) In a message dated 4/10/2013 3:19:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, l...@red4est.com writes: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 06:09:43PM -0400, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Bong as in the bong show, duh. Do you mean the Gong show? They say that as you age, the memory is the second thing to go. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
My G*d John, you're such a cave man! Have you got a 'Flintstones' lunchbox too. Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 1:56 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Boris Liberman On 4/10/2013 9:38 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: We've had universal public educate for more than 200 years. It didn't work. It worked very well between approx 1950 and 1980 in Soviet Union. Worked well right here in the U.S.A. between the Great Depression Reaganomics. Worked for the majority anyway. The breakdown started when the Supreme Court decided that Separate but Equal was in no way ever going to be equal, so it was no longer gonna' be allowed to be separate either. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Are you blaming integration for declining school performance? On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:56 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Boris Liberman On 4/10/2013 9:38 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: We've had universal public educate for more than 200 years. It didn't work. It worked very well between approx 1950 and 1980 in Soviet Union. Worked well right here in the U.S.A. between the Great Depression Reaganomics. Worked for the majority anyway. The breakdown started when the Supreme Court decided that Separate but Equal was in no way ever going to be equal, so it was no longer gonna' be allowed to be separate either. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Believe it or not, some progress is possible, even here in New Jersey. The problem is entrenched power in the local school boards and the unions. We spend vast amounts of money on the public education system; we need to demand better results. Dan M Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:30 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, all-public schooling is not reducing to LCD. It is if you don't invest and your state (as in country, not as one of 50 United State) does not fully backs the educational system by funds, equipment, etc. This is huge investment with very slow return - you'll see returns like I said - in order 20 years after you invested... Hence I don't see anyone who may be in position to initiate such a change/investment do so. Not in current political climate of modern western countries... On 4/11/2013 7:16 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: I don' understand your comment or how it relates to anything I said. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, consider this - if your country invests 1 trln (yep, trillion) dollars in educational system this year, they will see the outcome in, may be like 20 years - 12 years of school, 3-4 years - first degree, 4-6 years - second and/or third degree... So this kind of investment is extremely risky by modern measure. Further, a politician (or a group of them) responsible for this act are very unlikely to be mentioned in the Great Books of History... So, instead they do cheap populism and no child left behind stuff... The slippery slope will get progressively more slippery... On 4/10/2013 8:01 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model. How will reducing everyone to the lowest common denominator make the system work? Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: This discussion seems to assume that the existence of charter shoals and voucher systems is up for debate. It's not. They're operating and, in many places, succeeding. We still have much to learn about how they should be regulated and on what basis they should be allowed to compete, but going back to a schools system that is operated only by the government isn't going to happen. That's history. Only if we want to continue with a failing school system. If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model (with, of course, some caveats): http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/ You have valid points about the entrenched interests, but vouchers and charter schools are not the answer, if only because they just won't take the real problem children (behavior disorders and physical/mental disabilities). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
It still works well in the wealthy suburbs. That's not the point. Dan Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:56 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Boris Liberman On 4/10/2013 9:38 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: We've had universal public educate for more than 200 years. It didn't work. It worked very well between approx 1950 and 1980 in Soviet Union. Worked well right here in the U.S.A. between the Great Depression Reaganomics. Worked for the majority anyway. The breakdown started when the Supreme Court decided that Separate but Equal was in no way ever going to be equal, so it was no longer gonna' be allowed to be separate either. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
No, I'm blaming the right wing war against public education that sprang up to resist the Supreme Court's Brown v. Board of Education ruling for declining school performance. From: David Parsons Are you blaming integration for declining school performance? On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:56 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Boris Liberman On 4/10/2013 9:38 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: We've had universal public educate for more than 200 years. It didn't work. It worked very well between approx 1950 and 1980 in Soviet Union. Worked well right here in the U.S.A. between the Great Depression Reaganomics. Worked for the majority anyway. The breakdown started when the Supreme Court decided that Separate but Equal was in no way ever going to be equal, so it was no longer gonna' be allowed to be separate either. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Everyone wants to blame someone, and everyone blames those they disagree with politically. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 6:24 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: No, I'm blaming the right wing war against public education that sprang up to resist the Supreme Court's Brown v. Board of Education ruling for declining school performance. From: David Parsons Are you blaming integration for declining school performance? On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:56 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Boris Liberman On 4/10/2013 9:38 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: We've had universal public educate for more than 200 years. It didn't work. It worked very well between approx 1950 and 1980 in Soviet Union. Worked well right here in the U.S.A. between the Great Depression Reaganomics. Worked for the majority anyway. The breakdown started when the Supreme Court decided that Separate but Equal was in no way ever going to be equal, so it was no longer gonna' be allowed to be separate either. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 10 April 2013 12:50, John Coyle jco...@iinet.net.au wrote: I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the classic mnemonic I was taught at school - B (rackets) O (vers) D (ivision) M (ultiplication) A (dditions) S (ubtractions) Which often gives the correct answer, but equally can give an incorrect one! It should always give a reliable answer, the problem is that the mnemonic is often taken too literally (which is obvious in the FB thread). It's not a great tool IMO because it's flawed in that the implication is that division comes before multiplication and addition before subtraction which is not the case, the components of any equation are solved left to right in their particular tier of operations. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 10 Apr 2013, at 05:22, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: Given the size of the system and hence its inertia f[...] the general direction at which this juggernaut is moving on its own... I blame the physics teachers... :0) B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Bob, you're wrong. The Englishman with Jewish name Izik is the one to blame... :- On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: On 10 Apr 2013, at 05:22, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: Given the size of the system and hence its inertia f[...] the general direction at which this juggernaut is moving on its own... I blame the physics teachers... :0) B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Apr 10, 2013, at 12:07 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/9/2013 9:30 PM, Larry Colen wrote: Because, simply put, the problem isn't the schools. The problem is at home. Children who come from families that put a high priority on education do well in school. If kids see their parents reading in their free time, they will consider reading a viable leisure time activity. If they see their parents watching TV, getting drunk etc. that's what they will consider normal. Very true. But unfortunately many of today's parents won't provide that kind of home environment, and if we merely dismiss their children as uneducable we sustain that model. There are places where the schools have to take over and do a better job. Detroit, for example. I cannot possibly agree more here... The value of education does not depend on the way the teachers are paid or system is organized. Obviously some schools are better some are less so. Some teachers are more interesting and some others are more boring. The point is - what is the interest of the pupil. If he or she want to learn - they'll learn. If their parents can afford - it will be private extra-curriculum tuition. If not - it will be something else. Mind you - I have some very concrete examples around me, although obviously in my country, not USA. It all stems from the family position on the matter. We live in a culture where people who excel at stick and ball games are worshipped as heros, where kids who speak properly, and do well in science and math are teased and taunted as socially awkward nerds and geeks. And, then we wonder why are schools are failing us. Very similar here as well... Complaining about school performance in our culture, is like complaining that you can't get decent photos because Pentax doesn't make a full frame body, when you haven't even learned the basics well enough to get the best performance out of the cameras they do make. See, I can drag this topic, kicking and screaming back to the topic of photography. The reason that kids in charter schools do better is simply because they have parents that care enough about their education to put them in what they perceive as better schools. That's partly true, and the charter school provides a better environment for learning. Those kids would still do better than their peers in public schools. The biggest effect of charter schools, vouchers etc. is to separate the kids who have parents that care about their education from the ones who don't. Charter schools also tend to be staffed with teachers who care more about education than their paycheck and benefits. The solution isn't perfect, but it helps ensure that at least part of the population will be educated. Hmmm... If you have such a system it is pure gold because it ensures that at least part of your population will get reasonably good education. Just my cents... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Including under god in the pledge of allegiance is hardly worship. It is mostly a recognition that Americans are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that can not be taken away by the government. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 10:53 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: I don't believe in the concept of worship. Methinks your perspective is skewed by your own lens. Marnie aka Doe :-) In a message dated 4/9/2013 5:49:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pnstenqu...@comcast.net writes: Methinks they doth protest too much -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
what is the interest of the pupil. If he or she want to learn So, if we eliminate compulsory education, and let the slackers drop out, we will have a better school system? Dan On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:07 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: what is the interest of the pupil. If he or she want to learn Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: This discussion seems to assume that the existence of charter shoals and voucher systems is up for debate. It's not. They're operating and, in many places, succeeding. We still have much to learn about how they should be regulated and on what basis they should be allowed to compete, but going back to a schools system that is operated only by the government isn't going to happen. That's history. Only if we want to continue with a failing school system. If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model (with, of course, some caveats): http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/ You have valid points about the entrenched interests, but vouchers and charter schools are not the answer, if only because they just won't take the real problem children (behavior disorders and physical/mental disabilities). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Including under god in the pledge of allegiance is hardly worship. It is mostly a recognition that Americans are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that can not be taken away by the government. Do you support tax breaks for worshippers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Apr 9, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Apr 8, 2013, at 11:41 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: There are a lot of people who believe in no gods. But those too have created gods in their own image, just as people have done since the beginning of time. Witness the Christmas displays in Santa Monica stage by the atheists. They outdid all the religious groups. They worship at the shrine of secularism. We all have our gods. Category error, you are warping other people's beliefs to suit your own. When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less. Not my beliefs. I'm agnostic. But mankind has always found something to believe in, and a new system of beliefs always involves rejection of the old. Today's secularists are to christians what the christians and jews were to sun worshipers thousands of years ago. You are mixing up beliefs, gods, and worship. You are making as much sense as Humpty Dumpty. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 10/04/2013 7:57 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: what is the interest of the pupil. If he or she want to learn So, if we eliminate compulsory education, and let the slackers drop out, we will have a better school system? Actually, yes. You will have students who are motivated, which makes the job of teaching much easier, and will tend to attract people to the profession who are passionate about teaching. Yo won't run into the situation that is happening in Georgia (IIRC) where an entire school board is under the microscope for marks cheating to enhance their districts scores (and funding). Thirty five educators are in front of a grand jury for this. http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/04/01/atlanta-cheating-scandal-puts-national-education-policy-on-trial/ The other side of the coin of course, is what do you do with the slackers? They aren't going to be employable, and are, as a rule, going to end up in criminal activity (much the same as they do now), and eventually, being warehoused in jail. As an aside, I know something of what I speak. My father spent the majority of his teaching career at an inner city high school where drop out rates generally exceeded 90%, and the kids were a product of multi generational welfare, and parents whose live had pretty much been ruined by our governments very misguided attempt to beat the Indian out of the Indians with a Residential School program that saw hundreds of thousands of children taken from their parents and dropped into church run schools where their culture, language and, judging from the number of complaints that surfaced regarding physical and sexual abuse, their innocence as well. As a society, we'll be paying for this 150 year travesty for another hundred years. Essentially, we screwed these people up to the point they couldn't function in either the Indian society or the White society, and then kicked them to the curb to fend for themselves, and then got sanctimonious because many (most) ended up as a waste of humanity. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
My comment has nothing to do with tax breaks or anything else, but you know that. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Including under god in the pledge of allegiance is hardly worship. It is mostly a recognition that Americans are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that can not be taken away by the government. Do you support tax breaks for worshippers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model. How will reducing everyone to the lowest common denominator make the system work? Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: This discussion seems to assume that the existence of charter shoals and voucher systems is up for debate. It's not. They're operating and, in many places, succeeding. We still have much to learn about how they should be regulated and on what basis they should be allowed to compete, but going back to a schools system that is operated only by the government isn't going to happen. That's history. Only if we want to continue with a failing school system. If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model (with, of course, some caveats): http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/ You have valid points about the entrenched interests, but vouchers and charter schools are not the answer, if only because they just won't take the real problem children (behavior disorders and physical/mental disabilities). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
You will have students who are motivated, which makes the job of teaching much easier, and will tend to attract people to the profession who are passionate about teaching. Unfortunately, that is the philosophy of the current system: make the job of teachers easier, and eliminate any method of measuring performance. I am not convinced that is the was to attract people who are passionate about teaching; it is more likely to attract those looking for any easy and secure position. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/04/2013 7:57 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: what is the interest of the pupil. If he or she want to learn So, if we eliminate compulsory education, and let the slackers drop out, we will have a better school system? Actually, yes. You will have students who are motivated, which makes the job of teaching much easier, and will tend to attract people to the profession who are passionate about teaching. Yo won't run into the situation that is happening in Georgia (IIRC) where an entire school board is under the microscope for marks cheating to enhance their districts scores (and funding). Thirty five educators are in front of a grand jury for this. http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/04/01/atlanta-cheating-scandal-puts-national-education-policy-on-trial/ The other side of the coin of course, is what do you do with the slackers? They aren't going to be employable, and are, as a rule, going to end up in criminal activity (much the same as they do now), and eventually, being warehoused in jail. As an aside, I know something of what I speak. My father spent the majority of his teaching career at an inner city high school where drop out rates generally exceeded 90%, and the kids were a product of multi generational welfare, and parents whose live had pretty much been ruined by our governments very misguided attempt to beat the Indian out of the Indians with a Residential School program that saw hundreds of thousands of children taken from their parents and dropped into church run schools where their culture, language and, judging from the number of complaints that surfaced regarding physical and sexual abuse, their innocence as well. As a society, we'll be paying for this 150 year travesty for another hundred years. Essentially, we screwed these people up to the point they couldn't function in either the Indian society or the White society, and then kicked them to the curb to fend for themselves, and then got sanctimonious because many (most) ended up as a waste of humanity. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 10/04/2013 11:04 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: You will have students who are motivated, which makes the job of teaching much easier, and will tend to attract people to the profession who are passionate about teaching. Unfortunately, that is the philosophy of the current system: make the job of teachers easier, and eliminate any method of measuring performance. I am not convinced that is the was to attract people who are passionate about teaching; it is more likely to attract those looking for any easy and secure position. It makes the job easier in that it is easier to deal with students who want to learn, and easier to deal with classrooms that are not war zones. You are reading things into my post that were not written into my post. Your country has a problem with governmental corruption at every level. Deal with that, and you will find most of the other problems go away. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Actually, yes. You will have students who are motivated, which makes the job of teaching much easier, and will tend to attract people to the profession who are passionate about teaching. Yo won't run into the situation that is happening in Georgia (IIRC) where an entire school board is under the microscope for marks cheating to enhance their districts scores (and funding). Thirty five educators are in front of a grand jury for this. Similar situation in Ohio but without the press coverage, so it may just be forgotten about. Unfortunately. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 01:04:49PM -0400, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: You will have students who are motivated, which makes the job of teaching much easier, and will tend to attract people to the profession who are passionate about teaching. Unfortunately, that is the philosophy of the current system: make the job of teachers easier, and eliminate any method of measuring performance. I am not convinced that is the was to attract people who are passionate about teaching; it is more likely to attract those looking for any easy and secure position. You're conflating two arguments. While much of the current (US) based public education system has eliminated any meaningful way of evaluating the perfomance of teachers (although just how to measure this is, in itself, a whole new can of worms), that's not a position put forward by the proponents of charter/voucher schools. I know a little about this; one of my parents (and both of those of my wife) were life-long teachers. I went to the UK equivalent of both a US public school (although this was before Maggie Thatcher's drive to full comprehensive schools, so even then it was a selective 'grammar' school) and a voucher-supported school (a so-called Direct Grant public school), so I've seen at least some of the inside of both sides. My mother was a very close friend of the headmistress of one of the big experimental comprehensive schools (Kidbrooke - Bob probably knows of it), so I also know something about how a public school system can work, and of the problems encountered in trying to make it work. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Do you mean like the right to not have the government telling you when, where, why how to pray, along with who to pray to? From: Daniel J. Matyola Including under god in the pledge of allegiance is hardly worship. It is mostly a recognition that Americans are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that can not be taken away by the government. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 10:53 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: I don't believe in the concept of worship. Methinks your perspective is skewed by your own lens. Marnie aka Doe :-) In a message dated 4/9/2013 5:49:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pnstenqu...@comcast.net writes: Methinks they doth protest too much -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Perhaps a better school system, but at the expense of an overall worsening of society. From: Daniel J. Matyola what is the interest of the pupil. If he or she want to learn So, if we eliminate compulsory education, and let the slackers drop out, we will have a better school system? Dan On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:07 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: what is the interest of the pupil. If he or she want to learn -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 10 Apr 2013, at 19:09, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: I know a little about this; one of my parents (and both of those of my wife) were life-long teachers. I went to the UK equivalent of both a US public school (although this was before Maggie Thatcher's drive to full comprehensive schools, so even then it was a selective 'grammar' school) and a voucher-supported school (a so-called Direct Grant public school), so I've seen at least some of the inside of both sides. My mother was a very close friend of the headmistress of one of the big experimental comprehensive schools (Kidbrooke - Bob probably knows of it), so I also know something about how a public school system can work, and of the problems encountered in trying to make it work. Indeed i do - two of my friends have been teachers there. I went to a gramer schol, which became comprehensive at about the time I was in 6:1. The thing that went really wrong with the transition to comprehensives, which I support, is that some grammars got out of it by turning private, or something similar, and were able to poach the best teachers from the comps, so the comps became a dumping ground for bad teachers. This meant a fall in standards on average. If they had retained the best of the grammar teachers and ethos standards would probably have risen on average. As it is now, though, I think teaching is much better than it was in my day. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Apr 10, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: This discussion seems to assume that the existence of charter shoals and voucher systems is up for debate. It's not. They're operating and, in many places, succeeding. We still have much to learn about how they should be regulated and on what basis they should be allowed to compete, but going back to a schools system that is operated only by the government isn't going to happen. That's history. Only if we want to continue with a failing school system. If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model (with, of course, some caveats): We've had universal public educate for more than 200 years. It didn't work. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/ You have valid points about the entrenched interests, but vouchers and charter schools are not the answer, if only because they just won't take the real problem children (behavior disorders and physical/mental disabilities). Most charters that accept federal or state vouchers have to take all students, and they still succeed better than the public schools that are shackled by unions and mired in bureaucracy. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Unfortunately, the philosophy of the current system is to test all the kids in all the schools. Take money away from the schools where the kids test scores are below average and give it to the schools were the students already have test scores above average. Test 'em all again next year to see which schools have improved. Again, take money away from the schools where the improvement in test scores is below average and give the money to the schools where the improvement in test scores is been above average. Repeat the cycle until only schools where student test scores are above average are left. From: Daniel J. Matyola You will have students who are motivated, which makes the job of teaching much easier, and will tend to attract people to the profession who are passionate about teaching. Unfortunately, that is the philosophy of the current system: make the job of teachers easier, and eliminate any method of measuring performance. I am not convinced that is the was to attract people who are passionate about teaching; it is more likely to attract those looking for any easy and secure position. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Aahz: If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model. How will reducing everyone to the lowest common denominator make the system work? Repeat: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/ -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 10 Apr 2013, at 16:16, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Apr 9, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Apr 8, 2013, at 11:41 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: There are a lot of people who believe in no gods. But those too have created gods in their own image, just as people have done since the beginning of time. Witness the Christmas displays in Santa Monica stage by the atheists. They outdid all the religious groups. They worship at the shrine of secularism. We all have our gods. Category error, you are warping other people's beliefs to suit your own. When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less. Not my beliefs. I'm agnostic. But mankind has always found something to believe in, and a new system of beliefs always involves rejection of the old. Today's secularists are to christians what the christians and jews were to sun worshipers thousands of years ago. You are mixing up beliefs, gods, and worship. You are making as much sense as Humpty Dumpty. and confusing atheism and secularism. Secularism does not imply atheism. Secularism is about the distinction between religion and, essentially, state; so the notion of a 'shrine of secularism' is a contradiction in terms. You could be the most God-fearing Christian this side of Eden and still be a secularist, and still have secular, that is non-church, matters to deal with, and secularist ideas. Or, you could take the view that all of life should be subject to religious law, and be wholly opposed to all forms of secularism. Atheism is an absence of a particular belief, it is not a belief in itself. Atheists, like all people, obviously have beliefs, but there is not a body of interlocking ideas that one could call atheism, or practices that atheists undertake as a function of their atheism, and even if there were it could not be called a religion since the defining property of a religion is that it believes in the existence of at least one god, and the defining property of atheism is that it rejects all belief in gods. Now, some atheists may have big christmas displays, but that does not mean that that is some necessary part of atheism. Christmas is now far more of a cultural festival than a religious one - probably always has been, given that the Puritans banned it. Similarly, many atheists have ceremonies and take part in ritual practices such as weddings and baby-namings that parallel those of Christians and other religious people, but that's not because they want a substitute religion, it's because people everywhere feel a need for rites of passage, and that need has historically been co-opted by religion. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Do you mean like the right to not have the government telling you when, where, why how to pray, along with who to pray to? I have many complaints about our government, but they have never told me when, where, why and how to pray, or to whom to pray. Dan Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 2:11 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: Do you mean like the right to not have the government telling you when, where, why how to pray, along with who to pray to? From: Daniel J. Matyola Including under god in the pledge of allegiance is hardly worship. It is mostly a recognition that Americans are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that can not be taken away by the government. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 10:53 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: I don't believe in the concept of worship. Methinks your perspective is skewed by your own lens. Marnie aka Doe :-) In a message dated 4/9/2013 5:49:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pnstenqu...@comcast.net writes: Methinks they doth protest too much -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
I don't point fingers at other states, let alone other nations. Unfortunately, all humans are subject to corruption, and some will steal as much as they can if there is no fear of prosecution. If you believe that your country is free of corruption, or morally superior to others, you are of course entitled to that opinion. If you think that corruption is the only problem with education, I would respecfully disagree. Dan Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/04/2013 11:04 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: You will have students who are motivated, which makes the job of teaching much easier, and will tend to attract people to the profession who are passionate about teaching. Unfortunately, that is the philosophy of the current system: make the job of teachers easier, and eliminate any method of measuring performance. I am not convinced that is the was to attract people who are passionate about teaching; it is more likely to attract those looking for any easy and secure position. It makes the job easier in that it is easier to deal with students who want to learn, and easier to deal with classrooms that are not war zones. You are reading things into my post that were not written into my post. Your country has a problem with governmental corruption at every level. Deal with that, and you will find most of the other problems go away. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:43:48PM -0400, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Do you mean like the right to not have the government telling you when, where, why how to pray, along with who to pray to? I have many complaints about our government, but they have never told me when, where, why and how to pray, or to whom to pray. I grew up as one of very few jews in the schools that I went to. I always felt uncomfortable around Christmas because one of the class activities was singing Christmas carols. Christmas carols are, in effect, prayers, at the very least statements of belief in Christ as the son of God. At 52, I am perhaps a little more flexible in my beliefs, but back in grade school, it sure felt like I was being coerced into praying to gods that I didn't believe in. Granted, if you're a Christian, Christmas singing carols might not seem like praying to you. But how would you have felt if everyone else in your class was participating in Muslim or Hindu rituals? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Apr 10, 2013, at 2:55 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: On 10 Apr 2013, at 16:16, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Apr 9, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Apr 8, 2013, at 11:41 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: There are a lot of people who believe in no gods. But those too have created gods in their own image, just as people have done since the beginning of time. Witness the Christmas displays in Santa Monica stage by the atheists. They outdid all the religious groups. They worship at the shrine of secularism. We all have our gods. Category error, you are warping other people's beliefs to suit your own. When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less. Not my beliefs. I'm agnostic. But mankind has always found something to believe in, and a new system of beliefs always involves rejection of the old. Today's secularists are to christians what the christians and jews were to sun worshipers thousands of years ago. You are mixing up beliefs, gods, and worship. You are making as much sense as Humpty Dumpty. and confusing atheism and secularism. Secularism does not imply atheism. Secularism is about the distinction between religion and, essentially, state; so the notion of a 'shrine of secularism' is a contradiction in terms. You could be the most God-fearing Christian this side of Eden and still be a secularist, and still have secular, that is non-church, matters to deal with, and secularist ideas. Or, you could take the view that all of life should be subject to religious law, and be wholly opposed to all forms of secularism. Atheism is an absence of a particular belief, it is not a belief in itself. Atheists, like all people, obviously have beliefs, but there is not a body of interlocking ideas that one could call atheism, or practices that atheists undertake as a function of their atheism, and even if there were it could not be called a religion since the defining property of a religion is that it believes in the existence of at least one god, and the defining property of atheism is that it rejects all belief in gods. Now, some atheists may have big christmas displays, but that does not mean that that is some necessary part of atheism. Christmas is now far more of a cultural festival than a religious one - probably always has been, given that the Puritans banned it. Similarly, many atheists have ceremonies and take part in ritual practices such as weddings and baby-namings that parallel those of Christians and other religious people, but that's not because they want a substitute religion, it's because people everywhere feel a need for rites of passage, and that need has historically been co-opted by religion. A simplistic reading of the situation. Of course atheism and secularism are different. I'm not confusing them, but atheists are generally secularists. Many atheists and the secularists, which are indeed different, have in their fervor developed belief systems and become angry when others express religious beliefs. They have made their belief system a rallying point and effectively a substitute for religion. Paul B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: A simplistic reading of the situation. Of course atheism and secularism are different. I'm not confusing them, but atheists are generally secularists. Many atheists and the secularists, which are indeed different, have in their fervor developed belief systems and become angry when others express religious beliefs. They have made their belief system a rallying point and effectively a substitute for religion. In other words, wanting to avoid getting one's toes stomped on is the same thing as wanting to stomp on other people's toes. Got it. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:43:48PM -0400, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Do you mean like the right to not have the government telling you when, where, why how to pray, along with who to pray to? I have many complaints about our government, but they have never told me when, where, why and how to pray, or to whom to pray. I grew up as one of very few jews in the schools that I went to. I always felt uncomfortable around Christmas because one of the class activities was singing Christmas carols. Christmas carols are, in effect, prayers, at the very least statements of belief in Christ as the son of God. At 52, I am perhaps a little more flexible in my beliefs, but back in grade school, it sure felt like I was being coerced into praying to gods that I didn't believe in. Granted, if you're a Christian, Christmas singing carols might not seem like praying to you. But how would you have felt if everyone else in your class was participating in Muslim or Hindu rituals? I agree that as a nation we have been insensitive to the beliefs of others, and in some places we still are. At Grace's school they sing Christmas carols and Hannukah songs. And they observe Muslim holidays as well. They have a Christmas tree and a Menorah during the winter season. Or should I say a holiday tree and holiday candle holder:-). Seriously, kids like holidays, and most of them seem to enjoy every bit of it. Discussions of minority beliefs accompany the festivities. Grace's mother hasn't given her any religious instruction or experience. That's fine with me, and she seems quite content. But she did once make a crèche at Christmas. I think she just liked playing with the figures. And she made a menorah at school. Why not. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:03 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: A simplistic reading of the situation. Of course atheism and secularism are different. I'm not confusing them, but atheists are generally secularists. Many atheists and the secularists, which are indeed different, have in their fervor developed belief systems and become angry when others express religious beliefs. They have made their belief system a rallying point and effectively a substitute for religion. In other words, wanting to avoid getting one's toes stomped on is the same thing as wanting to stomp on other people's toes. Got it. Yes, because that works both ways. Both sides do some stomping, and each dislikes the other. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
I'm going to avoid this thread going forward. I don't think any of us are going to achieve conversions. In the past we've avoided religious discussions. That was good policy. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:55:13PM -0700, Larry Colen wrote: I grew up as one of very few jews in the schools that I went to. I always felt uncomfortable around Christmas because one of the class activities was singing Christmas carols. Christmas carols are, in effect, prayers, at the very least statements of belief in Christ as the son of God. I can assure you that this kind of discomfort is by no means limited to religion. Try not singing along with the national anthem at a sporting event, or not joining in the pledge of allegiance (with or without 'under god') at an event where it is commonly recited. You get everything from funny looks to downright abuse. I used to have fun explaining, at Girl Scout camp, just why I was standing there quietly, without my hand on my heart - that's not _my_ national anthem, not _my_ flag. Mind you, I was always amused by the fact that in the UK (where there is an established religion) there was far more separation of church and state than in a country that, in theory, has that separation enshrined in the constitution. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 04:34:32PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote: I'm going to avoid this thread going forward. I don't think any of us are going to achieve conversions. In the past we've avoided religious discussions. That was good policy. Agreed. Question: does discussing full-frame fall under religious discussion? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 04:34:32PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote: I'm going to avoid this thread going forward. I don't think any of us are going to achieve conversions. In the past we've avoided religious discussions. That was good policy. Agreed. Question: does discussing full-frame fall under religious discussion? Of course. It's all about fervor. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
I think I can top that, Larry. I went to elementary school when they stiill said the Lord's Prayer every day. The town was mostly Catholic, an I was one of the few who said the protestant ending. Based on the teachings of my conservative Lutheran Church, I should have refused to say it at all. I had a choice: sit down and shut up, and have everyone glare at me, conform to the majority, or finish the ending by myself (the only other Protestant was an African American Baptist, who was afraid to say anything), and have them look at me like a heretic. The next year, I was in the class where all the Catholics and all the Eastern Orthodox got out early every Tuesday for religious instruction. The one Jewish boy in the class and I did our homework on Tuesday afternoons. In my Rotary Club, we have a prayer before breakfast every week. We have a Buddhist, two Muslims, a Hindu, several Christians and Jews. at least two atheists, and a Reformed minister. The prayer is a plea for peace and aid in our effort for service. We manage to keep it to something that does not cause anyone discomfort. Last Saturday, I attended an diversity coalition dinner during which prayers were say -- and explained -- by 7 different faiths. It was quite enlightening. Dan Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 03:43:48PM -0400, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Do you mean like the right to not have the government telling you when, where, why how to pray, along with who to pray to? I have many complaints about our government, but they have never told me when, where, why and how to pray, or to whom to pray. I grew up as one of very few jews in the schools that I went to. I always felt uncomfortable around Christmas because one of the class activities was singing Christmas carols. Christmas carols are, in effect, prayers, at the very least statements of belief in Christ as the son of God. At 52, I am perhaps a little more flexible in my beliefs, but back in grade school, it sure felt like I was being coerced into praying to gods that I didn't believe in. Granted, if you're a Christian, Christmas singing carols might not seem like praying to you. But how would you have felt if everyone else in your class was participating in Muslim or Hindu rituals? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
No one is trying to convert anyone else, Paul. Discussing our various feelings about religion in public life is benign, and, I believe helpful to understanding each others perspective. Dan Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: I'm going to avoid this thread going forward. I don't think any of us are going to achieve conversions. In the past we've avoided religious discussions. That was good policy. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Bong! The below implies that atheists (they) are a group that meets and gets together and makes joint decisions. I suppose there is an atheist society somewhere, but very few atheists belong to it. It also implies that secularists (they) are such a group as well. You night relook up the definition for secular. It's like that ubiquitous they used in bad reporting. HTH, Marnie aka Doe :-) In a message dated 4/10/2013 1:35:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pnstenqu...@comcast.net writes: A simplistic reading of the situation. Of course atheism and secularism are different. I'm not confusing them, but atheists are generally secularists. Many atheists and the secularists, which are indeed different, have in their fervor developed belief systems and become angry when others express religious beliefs. They have made their belief system a rallying point and effectively a substitute for religion. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 05:46:21PM -0400, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Bong! Bong didn't write the post that you're replying to, Paul did. By the way, someone made a mistaken conflation between atheist (meaning no-gods) and agnostic (meaning no-knowledge). The below implies that atheists (they) are a group that meets and gets together and makes joint decisions. I suppose there is an atheist society somewhere, but very few atheists belong to it. It also implies that secularists (they) are such a group as well. You night relook up the definition for secular. It's like that ubiquitous they used in bad reporting. HTH, Marnie aka Doe :-) In a message dated 4/10/2013 1:35:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pnstenqu...@comcast.net writes: A simplistic reading of the situation. Of course atheism and secularism are different. I'm not confusing them, but atheists are generally secularists. Many atheists and the secularists, which are indeed different, have in their fervor developed belief systems and become angry when others express religious beliefs. They have made their belief system a rallying point and effectively a substitute for religion. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Bong as in the bong show, duh. I am perfectly willing to drop it like Paul did, but you brought it up again. Paul said something, I said some people believe in no gods, Paul essentially said that even atheists and secularists have their gods (substitute gods). I challenged that statement. Conversely I didn't say a thing against believers, Christians, Muslims, or what not. I really don't care what others believe, but I do get a bit ticked when someone tries to tell me what I believe. HTH, Have a Nice Day! Marnie In a message dated 4/10/2013 3:05:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, l...@red4est.com writes: Bong didn't write the post that you're replying to, Paul did. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 06:09:43PM -0400, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Bong as in the bong show, duh. Do you mean the Gong show? They say that as you age, the memory is the second thing to go. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
I don't dislike theists at all. I disagree with them on an issue that is of far more importance to them than it is to me. What I do take issue with is people trying (quite wrongly) to tell me what I ~do~ believe: Atheism is a religion just like any other. No, actually it's not. You really do believe in god, you are simply in denial. Sorry, I do not, as much as you may want me to. You are an atheist because you're angry with god. No, I can't be angry at something I do no believe in. Lack of belief is the same as belief, it is a type of faith. As Bob W. quite capably explained lack of belief is the opposite of belief. And so on. But as for theists themselves, I don't dislike them at all... Cheers, frank --- Original Message --- From: Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net Sent: April 10, 2013 4/10/13 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Yes, because that works both ways. Both sides do some stomping, and each dislikes the other. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Well, the gong on the gong show went bong. Actually, what I mean was boing! Okay, Larry, I'll bite, tell me, what is the first? Marnie aka Doe ;-) In a message dated 4/10/2013 3:19:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, l...@red4est.com writes: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 06:09:43PM -0400, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Bong as in the bong show, duh. Do you mean the Gong show? They say that as you age, the memory is the second thing to go. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 08:03:19PM -0400, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Well, the gong on the gong show went bong. Actually, what I mean was boing! Okay, Larry, I'll bite, tell me, what is the first? I dunno. I forgot years ago. Marnie aka Doe ;-) In a message dated 4/10/2013 3:19:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, l...@red4est.com writes: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 06:09:43PM -0400, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Bong as in the bong show, duh. Do you mean the Gong show? They say that as you age, the memory is the second thing to go. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 06:57:46AM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Apr 10, 2013, at 12:07 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/9/2013 9:30 PM, Larry Colen wrote: Because, simply put, the problem isn't the schools. The problem is at home. Children who come from families that put a high priority on education do well in school. If kids see their parents reading in their free time, they will consider reading a viable leisure time activity. If they see their parents watching TV, getting drunk etc. that's what they will consider normal. Very true. But unfortunately many of today's parents won't provide that kind of home environment, and if we merely dismiss their children as uneducable we sustain that model. There are places where the schools have to take over and do a better job. Detroit, for example. Be careful what you say. Aparantly some newscaster on MSNBC said something very similar and is being roundly denounced by a wide swath of the population for expressing that view. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:02 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 06:57:46AM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Apr 10, 2013, at 12:07 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/9/2013 9:30 PM, Larry Colen wrote: Because, simply put, the problem isn't the schools. The problem is at home. Children who come from families that put a high priority on education do well in school. If kids see their parents reading in their free time, they will consider reading a viable leisure time activity. If they see their parents watching TV, getting drunk etc. that's what they will consider normal. Very true. But unfortunately many of today's parents won't provide that kind of home environment, and if we merely dismiss their children as uneducable we sustain that model. There are places where the schools have to take over and do a better job. Detroit, for example. Be careful what you say. Aparantly some newscaster on MSNBC said something very similar and is being roundly denounced by a wide swath of the population for expressing that view. I can say what I want about schools. I only have to be careful when talking about car companies:-). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Well, the gong on the gong show went bong. Actually, what I mean was boing! Okay, Larry, I'll bite, tell me, what is the first? You mean, Who's on first? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Daniel, you and I may have a communication breakdown here. For even a split second did I _not_ talk about the education being compulsory or not. If your system does not seriously challenge the slackers then you'll be having lots of trouble when they finish school. On 4/10/2013 4:57 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: what is the interest of the pupil. If he or she want to learn So, if we eliminate compulsory education, and let the slackers drop out, we will have a better school system? Dan On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:07 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: what is the interest of the pupil. If he or she want to learn Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Discussing our various feelings about religion in public life is benign, and, I believe helpful to understanding each others perspective And belongs on another mailing list. Not one for photography! Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Daniel J. Matyola danmaty...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested No one is trying to convert anyone else, Paul. Discussing our various feelings about religion in public life is benign, and, I believe helpful to understanding each others perspective. Dan Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: I'm going to avoid this thread going forward. I don't think any of us are going to achieve conversions. In the past we've avoided religious discussions. That was good policy. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 4/10/2013 6:10 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: Only if we want to continue with a failing school system. If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model (with, of course, some caveats): http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/ You have valid points about the entrenched interests, but vouchers and charter schools are not the answer, if only because they just won't take the real problem children (behavior disorders and physical/mental disabilities). I opine that Finland schools are not that successful as this article aims to present. Consider this page: http://www.imo-official.org/results.aspx You will see that Finland scores between 57 and 72 in the last 3 years is International Math Olympiad (IMO). Who scores first - China and Russia. By the way Israel improved from 53rd place in 2010 through 23 to 31 in 2011 and 2012 respectively. I happen to know personally two very fine gentlemen who helped make this happen (similarly in IPhO (physics) ). Well, naturally, IMO is not the measure as the IMO itself is a very special kind of sport. However, if with all that might Finnish system cannot come up with the group of 6 really bright kids to solve these math problems - then the system either doesn't want to do so or cannot do so. If they can't but want to - they might have some bugs in the system. If they don't want (which is legit) it means that if next Newton or Leibniz is born in Finland - we'll never know. That's a mighty shame. Further, two very interesting quotes for you: Quote #1: For Sahlberg what matters is that in Finland all teachers and administrators are given prestige, decent pay, and a lot of responsibility. A master's degree is required to enter the profession, and teacher training programs are among the most selective professional schools in the country. If a teacher is bad, it is the principal's responsibility to notice and deal with it. Quote #2 (just next paragraph really): And while Americans love to talk about competition, Sahlberg points out that nothing makes Finns more uncomfortable. In his book Sahlberg quotes a line from Finnish writer named Samuli Paronen: Real winners do not compete. Without being overly politically correct - tell me, Aahz - which one of these two statements is total bullshit? Because they contradict one another. It takes lots of effort to complete two university degrees, then I suppose pass certain very serious tests, have a goal in front of you being given prestige, decent pay, and a lot of responsibility and then being totally not about competition... It has nothing to do with being American or non-American. It is about being human. Social life is mostly competition or may be I am missing something very basic here. Another interesting quote: In fact, since academic excellence wasn't a particular priority on the Finnish to-do list, when Finland's students scored so high on the first PISA survey in 2001, many Finns thought the results must be a mistake. But subsequent PISA tests confirmed that Finland -- unlike, say, very similar countries such as Norway -- was producing academic excellence through its particular policy focus on equity. This in fact may explain why Finland scores so low in IMO. They simply don't hold things such IMO or IPhO (physics) to be of any importance. But then don't tell me about academic excellence, thank you very much. Now, you might notice something entirely different. Finland does show an excellent example of very good (if not very excellent) educational system that is totally under aegis of the state. State of Finland sees it as its own goal, responsibility and area of vested interest to have the educational system as per the state's own notions. This by the way was the same education system I grew up with. It had its flaws, but it wasn't half as bad as what I am seeing right now. And believe me my teacher of Algebra, Geometry, Physics, Astronomy and Informatics (all 5 being separate subjects during last two years in school) was amazingly good. Notice - it wasn't public school without any in-depth classes, etc. It was your regular average school. Further, thanks to my Russian and Literature teacher I can still quote Pushkin from memory. Thanks to my English teacher I am writing this message, though of course I had to invest a lot of my time after I finished school... I can probably continue this list as well... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Daniel, consider this - if your country invests 1 trln (yep, trillion) dollars in educational system this year, they will see the outcome in, may be like 20 years - 12 years of school, 3-4 years - first degree, 4-6 years - second and/or third degree... So this kind of investment is extremely risky by modern measure. Further, a politician (or a group of them) responsible for this act are very unlikely to be mentioned in the Great Books of History... So, instead they do cheap populism and no child left behind stuff... The slippery slope will get progressively more slippery... On 4/10/2013 8:01 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model. How will reducing everyone to the lowest common denominator make the system work? Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: This discussion seems to assume that the existence of charter shoals and voucher systems is up for debate. It's not. They're operating and, in many places, succeeding. We still have much to learn about how they should be regulated and on what basis they should be allowed to compete, but going back to a schools system that is operated only by the government isn't going to happen. That's history. Only if we want to continue with a failing school system. If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model (with, of course, some caveats): http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/ You have valid points about the entrenched interests, but vouchers and charter schools are not the answer, if only because they just won't take the real problem children (behavior disorders and physical/mental disabilities). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 4/10/2013 9:38 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: We've had universal public educate for more than 200 years. It didn't work. It worked very well between approx 1950 and 1980 in Soviet Union. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
I don' understand your comment or how it relates to anything I said. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, consider this - if your country invests 1 trln (yep, trillion) dollars in educational system this year, they will see the outcome in, may be like 20 years - 12 years of school, 3-4 years - first degree, 4-6 years - second and/or third degree... So this kind of investment is extremely risky by modern measure. Further, a politician (or a group of them) responsible for this act are very unlikely to be mentioned in the Great Books of History... So, instead they do cheap populism and no child left behind stuff... The slippery slope will get progressively more slippery... On 4/10/2013 8:01 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model. How will reducing everyone to the lowest common denominator make the system work? Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: This discussion seems to assume that the existence of charter shoals and voucher systems is up for debate. It's not. They're operating and, in many places, succeeding. We still have much to learn about how they should be regulated and on what basis they should be allowed to compete, but going back to a schools system that is operated only by the government isn't going to happen. That's history. Only if we want to continue with a failing school system. If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model (with, of course, some caveats): http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/ You have valid points about the entrenched interests, but vouchers and charter schools are not the answer, if only because they just won't take the real problem children (behavior disorders and physical/mental disabilities). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 4/11/2013 12:43 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: The next year, I was in the class where all the Catholics and all the Eastern Orthodox got out early every Tuesday for religious instruction. The one Jewish boy in the class and I did our homework on Tuesday afternoons. Well, I know that socialist/communist doctrine is not considered a religious one, but IMO it is. So while at school I had to attend a number of so called meetings... Especially towards the end of the school when I had to get to komsomol, because otherwise I couldn't be accepted in pretty much any university... But to cut the long story short - during these meetings me and some of my class mates played blind chess with great enjoyment of the process. You play without a board - totally in your mind's eye. Then either you loose by rules of the game or you make sufficiently many wrong moves to suggest that you don't hold the position in your head. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 4/10/2013 1:18 AM, Bob W wrote: That's not god, that's Raoul B Whoa! You talk to the Great Capablanca... Next time you do - ask him what does he think about the quick chess invented by Mr. Kasparov... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Daniel, all-public schooling is not reducing to LCD. It is if you don't invest and your state (as in country, not as one of 50 United State) does not fully backs the educational system by funds, equipment, etc. This is huge investment with very slow return - you'll see returns like I said - in order 20 years after you invested... Hence I don't see anyone who may be in position to initiate such a change/investment do so. Not in current political climate of modern western countries... On 4/11/2013 7:16 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: I don' understand your comment or how it relates to anything I said. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel, consider this - if your country invests 1 trln (yep, trillion) dollars in educational system this year, they will see the outcome in, may be like 20 years - 12 years of school, 3-4 years - first degree, 4-6 years - second and/or third degree... So this kind of investment is extremely risky by modern measure. Further, a politician (or a group of them) responsible for this act are very unlikely to be mentioned in the Great Books of History... So, instead they do cheap populism and no child left behind stuff... The slippery slope will get progressively more slippery... On 4/10/2013 8:01 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model. How will reducing everyone to the lowest common denominator make the system work? Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: This discussion seems to assume that the existence of charter shoals and voucher systems is up for debate. It's not. They're operating and, in many places, succeeding. We still have much to learn about how they should be regulated and on what basis they should be allowed to compete, but going back to a schools system that is operated only by the government isn't going to happen. That's history. Only if we want to continue with a failing school system. If we want a school system that works, we need to switch to an all-public model (with, of course, some caveats): http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/ You have valid points about the entrenched interests, but vouchers and charter schools are not the answer, if only because they just won't take the real problem children (behavior disorders and physical/mental disabilities). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 02:55:42PM +1000, Rob Studdert wrote: On 9 April 2013 14:37, Tom Cakalic caka...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Rob, (and John) You and I often see things in the same way. However the question/problem seems rather academic. I haven't needed to or tried to remember the order of operations much past high school. At 52 years old, I see the implicit wisdom in using parentheses to denote the proper order. Why leave the correct solution to chance when one could explicitly specify it? Is it really too hard to do so? Especially if one desires the correct result? If that's your preference then you are free to do it that way, but if someone doesn't add brackets and you have to deal with their output then it's advantageous to know how to deal with the situation, when the rules are followed there is no ambiguity. I look on them as not so much rules as guidelines. I've needed to know these just about every day since I first learned them, but that's because for the last 40+ years I've earned my living writing software, and most (but not all) of the common languages used to program computers follow the same operator precedence conventions (at least as far as the simple arithmetic operators are concerned). Mind you, I've also used those HP calculators that use RPN . . . -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Apr 8, 2013, at 11:26 PM, Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com wrote: That's nothing, I'm currently watching a thread on Facebook which relates to a basic math equation, the vast majority have no idea to solve it but argue fiercely that everyone else it wrong. The most interesting thing to me is that when checking the profiles of many of the people in error they supposedly have university degrees, I find the results stunning frankly. The said equation: is 6-1x0+2/2=? Don't get too hot under the collar, those equations go around Facebook all the time and the best thing you can do is quietly ignore it and despair for humanity. Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 9 Apr 2013, at 06:01, Alan C c...@lantic.net wrote: How many photographers can still mentally apply the Sunny 16 rule? 7 B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Tom, I will have to disagree with you on this: On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Tom Cakalic caka...@gmail.com wrote: However the question/problem seems rather academic. Well, no. I haven't needed to or tried to remember the order of operations much past high school. Good for you. I wonder though if this requires any generalization. At 52 years old, I see the implicit wisdom in using parentheses to denote the proper order. Why leave the correct solution to chance when one could explicitly specify it? Is it really too hard to do so? Especially if one desires the correct result? I never thought that mathematics (except things such as probability or statistics) leaves anything to chance. Even in programming, I don't take shortcuts when some languages allow an implicit variable length of 1. Specificity is preferred to ambiguity, IMO. My 2/1 cents worth. That's right. As programmer I am often in need to write code in a way that could be easy to read/modify after me. However IMO this does not apply to basic math. Here is an example that has certain degree of absurd in it. What if google (microsoft, etc) came up with the system that will make it so that all texts on the internet would have each and every word turned to a link pointing to the respective wikipedia article. It is just so that any reader, no matter how much lacking in knowledge would be able to comprehend the meaning... Obviously this is rather silly or even stupid example. It won't stand the test of recursion. My point however is that things such as this formula (by the way as far as I understand, this is not equation, as it contains no unknown to be determined) belong to very basic human literacy of today. Hence, in fact, it shouldn't be subject to discussion all together - everyone should be able to simply read it and see the result. That's merely my own opinion and should be treated as such. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Commebts on some snippets: I see the implicit wisdom in using parentheses to denote the proper order. Why leave the correct solution to chance when one could explicitly specify it? Is it really too hard to do so? No, it isn't but it is overkill. If people were taught correctly in the first place, it wouldn't be necessary. there is no chance about it. As programmer I am often in need to write code in a way that could be easy to read/modify after me. True, but remember that computer code follows the same rules. Don't programmers know that? Perhaps they have become accostomed to the programming language doing it automatically for them? However IMO this does not apply to basic math. In the end, all computer code is basic maths, so it does. It shouldn't be subject to discussion all together - everyone should be able to simply read it and see the result. Yes, they should! Alan C -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Apr 8, 2013, at 11:35 PM, Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com wrote: On 9 April 2013 06:30, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: Just out of curiosity, what real life problem does that equation relate to? It's been long enough since I'd done school-book math that I had to Google order of operations to be sure I got the answer right. Not trying to harp on but given the results from that thread most people couldn't even manage a simple temperature conversion ie: F = 32 + 9 / 5 x C I think most would have no problem with this. In fact, Grace at age 8 can probably do it. It's quite obvious here that this is not meant to be a series of linear calculations from left to right. The Facebook examples are not so obvious to those who have forgotten the order of operations. People read left to right, so they tend to calculate that way as well. But I agree that many Americans are undereducated. As I said when this thread first shifted, American schools have failed their students. They became complacent, and many of them are packed with bad teachers protected by powerful unions with political connections. Things are changing, but improvement takes time. Grace's public school is a good one, in part because it's subject to heavy competition from excellent Catholic and private schools, but also because it's in a good neighborhood where the residents will accept nothing less. Most American children are not so fortunate. Paul -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Apr 8, 2013, at 11:41 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: There are a lot of people who believe in no gods. M aka D :-) But those too have created gods in their own image, just as people have done since the beginning of time. Witness the Christmas displays in Santa Monica stage by the atheists. They outdid all the religious groups. They worship at the shrine of secularism. We all have our gods. Paul In a message dated 4/7/2013 4:36:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pnstenqu...@comcast.net writes: The pledge doesn't specify any one god. It can be mother nature for those who so believe. Or the god of secularism. We each take our pick. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
Good to see you here, Marnie! Paul On Apr 8, 2013, at 11:30 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: San Francisco recently passed a law that prohibits nudity in the city (this was approved by voters). I think it was appropriate (I forget where I read this or when, but googling should turn it up -- probably last November). Encouraging alternative life styles is one thing, but when children are going to be around, tourists, etc., well, there is no reason to be blatantly offensive. So SF has clean up its act. Marnie aka Doe :-) In a message dated 4/6/2013 5:56:09 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, danmaty...@gmail.com writes: Your reference to San Francisco is a good case in point. If you go to the tourist areas, or the business areas, of the city, you will not see the kind of display that you witnessed. Like many of our cities, and many European cities, like Copenhagen or Amsterdam, there are areas where alternative life styles are not only tolerated, but actually encouraged. If one doesn't want to see nudity, pot, or other sights that distress or offend you, one avoids those areas. There are plenty of places in the US where pervasive wholesomeness is almost overwhelming. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 9/4/13, Alan C, discombobulated, unleashed: How many photographers can still mentally apply the Sunny 16 rule? 1/125th of one -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Producion --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: But I agree that many Americans are undereducated. As I said when this thread first shifted, American schools have failed their students. They became complacent, and many of them are packed with bad teachers protected by powerful unions with political connections. Things are changing, but improvement takes time. Grace's public school is a good one, in part because it's subject to heavy competition from excellent Catholic and private schools, but also because it's in a good neighborhood where the residents will accept nothing less. Most American children are not so fortunate. Where good neighborhood means parents with some combination of money and time. You're right, most American children are not so fortunate. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Apr 8, 2013, at 11:41 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: There are a lot of people who believe in no gods. But those too have created gods in their own image, just as people have done since the beginning of time. Witness the Christmas displays in Santa Monica stage by the atheists. They outdid all the religious groups. They worship at the shrine of secularism. We all have our gods. Category error, you are warping other people's beliefs to suit your own. When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
Aahz, You're absolutely right. A 'good neighborhood' has a combination of money and time. Big, expensive homes with both spouses working full time is not good. These people have money, but no time to give to their schools. Without local support and interest, the schools just limp along. This bothers me. Regards, Bob S. On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: But I agree that many Americans are undereducated. As I said when this thread first shifted, American schools have failed their students. They became complacent, and many of them are packed with bad teachers protected by powerful unions with political connections. Things are changing, but improvement takes time. Grace's public school is a good one, in part because it's subject to heavy competition from excellent Catholic and private schools, but also because it's in a good neighborhood where the residents will accept nothing less. Most American children are not so fortunate. Where good neighborhood means parents with some combination of money and time. You're right, most American children are not so fortunate. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Apr 9, 2013, at 9:28 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: But I agree that many Americans are undereducated. As I said when this thread first shifted, American schools have failed their students. They became complacent, and many of them are packed with bad teachers protected by powerful unions with political connections. Things are changing, but improvement takes time. Grace's public school is a good one, in part because it's subject to heavy competition from excellent Catholic and private schools, but also because it's in a good neighborhood where the residents will accept nothing less. Most American children are not so fortunate. Where good neighborhood means parents with some combination of money and time. You're right, most American children are not so fortunate. That's why voucher funded charter schools are needed in those other areas. They can provide the competition for the public schools. Community involvement is another thing, but having an alternative to the public schools is a start. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On Apr 9, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2013, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Apr 8, 2013, at 11:41 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: There are a lot of people who believe in no gods. But those too have created gods in their own image, just as people have done since the beginning of time. Witness the Christmas displays in Santa Monica stage by the atheists. They outdid all the religious groups. They worship at the shrine of secularism. We all have our gods. Category error, you are warping other people's beliefs to suit your own. When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less. -- Not my beliefs. I'm agnostic. But mankind has always found something to believe in, and a new system of beliefs always involves rejection of the old. Today's secularists are to christians what the christians and jews were to sun worshipers thousands of years ago. Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 09/04/2013 7:43 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: That's why voucher funded charter schools are needed in those other areas. They can provide the competition for the public schools. Community involvement is another thing, but having an alternative to the public schools is a start. And when all the kids are going to charter schools via a voucher program, you will have a de facto public schools system which is funded by a combination of public funding and private tuition, probably to the chagrin of the people on the private funding side (why should we pay our freight when the majority don't?), but is a given that it will be much more expensive than the public system it has replaced. Why not just fix the public system instead? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
I went to Catholic grade school as a yute. I don't think they paid the nuns to much. And retirement benefits are kind of iffy. Just sayin'... On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/04/2013 7:43 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: That's why voucher funded charter schools are needed in those other areas. They can provide the competition for the public schools. Community involvement is another thing, but having an alternative to the public schools is a start. And when all the kids are going to charter schools via a voucher program, you will have a de facto public schools system which is funded by a combination of public funding and private tuition, probably to the chagrin of the people on the private funding side (why should we pay our freight when the majority don't?), but is a given that it will be much more expensive than the public system it has replaced. Why not just fix the public system instead? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Apr 9, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/04/2013 7:43 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: That's why voucher funded charter schools are needed in those other areas. They can provide the competition for the public schools. Community involvement is another thing, but having an alternative to the public schools is a start. And when all the kids are going to charter schools via a voucher program, you will have a de facto public schools system which is funded by a combination of public funding and private tuition, probably to the chagrin of the people on the private funding side (why should we pay our freight when the majority don't?), but is a given that it will be much more expensive than the public system it has replaced. Why not just fix the public system instead? We've been trying to fix the public school system for fifty years. School reform without additional motivation just hasn't happened. Any discussion of such a complex problem becomes overly simplified in a forum like this. But in very general terms there are myriad reasons why public schools have continued to fail, including powerful labor unions, politicians who depend on the labor unions for votes, and school systems overburdened with administrators and non-teaching personnel. To that add teacher education programs in the 1970s and even into the '80s and '90s that ignored things like curriculum, structure and discipline. I was a product of late sixties and early seventies teacher education. They taught us that if we loved our students enough they would learn. They didn't, and trying to teach in schools that were founded on those hazy principles was like getting run over by a freight train. Our educational system is only now beginning to recover from the mistakes of the past. But there has to be motivation to do better. Without competition, there is not sufficient motivation in many communities. Public schools will survive given the vested interest that a large portion of the population has in their continued existence. Charters won't ever replace them completely. It's doubtful that we'd ever get to 50% charters. But to ensure survival, public schools will have to complete. They can no longer be lazy and take their position for granted. And that's happening in a lot of places. This discussion seems to assume that the existence of charter shoals and voucher systems is up for debate. It's not. They're operating and, in many places, succeeding. We still have much to learn about how they should be regulated and on what basis they should be allowed to compete, but going back to a schools system that is operated only by the government isn't going to happen. That's history. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 09/04/2013 11:59 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: Public schools will survive given the vested interest that a large portion of the population has in their continued existence. Charters won't ever replace them completely. It's doubtful that we'd ever get to 50% charters. But to ensure survival, public schools will have to complete. They can no longer be lazy and take their position for granted. And that's happening in a lot of places. This discussion seems to assume that the existence of charter shoals and voucher systems is up for debate. It's not. They're operating and, in many places, succeeding. We still have much to learn about how they should be regulated and on what basis they should be allowed to compete, but going back to a schools system that is operated only by the government isn't going to happen. That's history. And in the end you will have a two tiered public education system of pure public schools funded completely by taxes and charter schools funded mostly by the public purse, with a large contingent of charter school parents annoyed that they are paying 100% of their child's tuition, while most of the people in the class are there on subsidies, and the whole thing will fall apart because of the human nature of people not wanting to pay someone else's freight. And you will end up having a repeat of the same problems your public system is having now, simply because the problem is with holding the system accountable. And probably, some smart Johnny will repeat the process You don't need competition, you need accountability. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 01:59:15PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Apr 9, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/04/2013 7:43 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: Why not just fix the public system instead? We've been trying to fix the public school system for fifty years. School reform without additional motivation just hasn't happened. Any discussion of such a complex problem becomes overly simplified in a forum like this. But in very general terms there are myriad reasons why public schools have continued to fail, including powerful labor unions, politicians who depend on the labor unions for votes, and school systems overburdened with administrators and non-teaching personnel. To that add teacher education programs in the 1970s and even into the '80s and '90s that ignored things like curriculum, structure and discipline. Because, simply put, the problem isn't the schools. The problem is at home. Children who come from families that put a high priority on education do well in school. If kids see their parents reading in their free time, they will consider reading a viable leisure time activity. If they see their parents watching TV, getting drunk etc. that's what they will consider normal. We live in a culture where people who excel at stick and ball games are worshipped as heros, where kids who speak properly, and do well in science and math are teased and taunted as socially awkward nerds and geeks. And, then we wonder why are schools are failing us. Complaining about school performance in our culture, is like complaining that you can't get decent photos because Pentax doesn't make a full frame body, when you haven't even learned the basics well enough to get the best performance out of the cameras they do make. See, I can drag this topic, kicking and screaming back to the topic of photography. The reason that kids in charter schools do better is simply because they have parents that care enough about their education to put them in what they perceive as better schools. Those kids would still do better than their peers in public schools. The biggest effect of charter schools, vouchers etc. is to separate the kids who have parents that care about their education from the ones who don't. I was a product of late sixties and early seventies teacher education. They taught us that if we loved our students enough they would learn. They didn't, and trying to teach in schools that were founded on those hazy principles was like getting run over by a freight train. Our educational system is only now beginning to recover from the mistakes of the past. But there has to be motivation to do better. Without competition, there is not sufficient motivation in many communities. Public schools will survive given the vested interest that a large portion of the population has in their continued existence. Charters won't ever replace them completely. It's doubtful that we'd ever get to 50% charters. But to ensure survival, public schools will have to complete. They can no longer be lazy and take their position for granted. And that's happening in a lot of places. This discussion seems to assume that the existence of charter shoals and voucher systems is up for debate. It's not. They're operating and, in many places, succeeding. We still have much to learn about how they should be regulated and on what basis they should be allowed to compete, but going back to a schools system that is operated only by the government isn't going to happen. That's history. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Apr 9, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/04/2013 11:59 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: Public schools will survive given the vested interest that a large portion of the population has in their continued existence. Charters won't ever replace them completely. It's doubtful that we'd ever get to 50% charters. But to ensure survival, public schools will have to complete. They can no longer be lazy and take their position for granted. And that's happening in a lot of places. This discussion seems to assume that the existence of charter shoals and voucher systems is up for debate. It's not. They're operating and, in many places, succeeding. We still have much to learn about how they should be regulated and on what basis they should be allowed to compete, but going back to a schools system that is operated only by the government isn't going to happen. That's history. And in the end you will have a two tiered public education system of pure public schools funded completely by taxes and charter schools funded mostly by the public purse, with a large contingent of charter school parents annoyed that they are paying 100% of their child's tuition, while most of the people in the class are there on subsidies, and the whole thing will fall apart because of the human nature of people not wanting to pay someone else's freight. If that were how it works, it would be a problem. But it doesn't. Charters in many systems are fully funded by tax dollars. They differ from the public schools only in that they are privately owned and operated. And you will end up having a repeat of the same problems your public system is having now, simply because the problem is with holding the system accountable. And probably, some smart Johnny will repeat the process You don't need competition, you need accountability. Accountability is paramount, but it can't come when schools are political footballs and the worst teachers are protected by union contracts. Alternative choices are forcing those schools to make teachers accountable. It's not happening quickly, but it's happening. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
From: Brian Walters Quoting Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com: On 9 April 2013 06:30, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: Just out of curiosity, what real life problem does that equation relate to? In solving electronics engineering problems this sort of combination of operators wouldn't be that uncommon. It's been long enough since I'd done school-book math that I had to Google order of operations to be sure I got the answer right. After watching that FB thread I feel that I'm in a privileged position that my secondary schooling left me with an indelible memory of order of operations (and we had no swanky acronyms, we just had to remember it like times tables) plus I can solve trig problems so long as I have a table or calculator handy and logs are no mystery. I can't help thinking that if order of operations in second class mechanical maths is a problem what change would anyone have had with basic algebra? Yeah, I'm with John here. In my ancient schooldays, equations like this would be presented with parentheses to define the order of operations, as in: 6-(1x0)+(2/2) = 7 I'm not sure when the parentheses idea was dropped. I recognized right away that it was one of those trick questions based on order of operation. I got seven as the answer, but wasn't certain enough that I remembered it correctly to accept the answer without Googling Order of Operation to check myself. When I had to take Trigonometry in High School it was all rote memory looking up tables. They didn't teach WHY. I had to take a math course during one of my sojourns in Community College, and enough time had passed since High School that they taught Trig using graphing calculators. And in order to use graphing calculators, they had to teach WHY. Looking back, I can't believe that my High School Trig course never once mentioned that Sine, Cosine and Tangent are all based on the relationship of the sides of a triangle. That would have made it so easy. And again, if I actually needed to figure out the height of a flagpole from the length of it's shadow, nowadays I'd just Google it find an on-line calculator that would give me the answer. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 9 Apr 2013, at 12:23, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: On Apr 8, 2013, at 11:41 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: There are a lot of people who believe in no gods. M aka D :-) But those too have created gods in their own image, just as people have done since the beginning of time. Witness the Christmas displays in Santa Monica stage by the atheists. They outdid all the religious groups. They worship at the shrine of secularism. We all have our gods. Paul I don't. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On 2013-04-09 14:56, John Sessoms wrote: Looking back, I can't believe that my High School Trig course never once mentioned that Sine, Cosine and Tangent are all based on the relationship of the sides of a triangle. That would have made it so easy. Holy Crap! I can't believe that, either! sarcasmI mean, it's not like the transcendentals grew directly out of the triangles or anything./sarcasm It's along the lines of my experience with physics. In regular high school physics classes, they couldn't assume we knew even rudimentary calculus, so we had to memorize a gazillion discrete formulae. F=ma, P=mv, E=mv^2/2, etc. It got much simpler in college when we did know calculus and discovered that you really only need to know a handful of basic equations, and a little basic calculus, and you can derive all of the other formulae you need. -- Doug Lefty Franklin NutDriver Racing http://NutDriver.org Facebook NutDriver Racing Sponsored by Murphy -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
From: Rob Studdert On 9 April 2013 14:37, Tom Cakalic caka...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Rob, (and John) You and I often see things in the same way. However the question/problem seems rather academic. I haven't needed to or tried to remember the order of operations much past high school. At 52 years old, I see the implicit wisdom in using parentheses to denote the proper order. Why leave the correct solution to chance when one could explicitly specify it? Is it really too hard to do so? Especially if one desires the correct result? If that's your preference then you are free to do it that way, but if someone doesn't add brackets and you have to deal with their output then it's advantageous to know how to deal with the situation, when the rules are followed there is no ambiguity. Oh yeah. I know how to deal with it. Just Google order of operation. 8-D -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
From: Alan C Sorry - in a proper fraction, the numerator is smaller than the denominator. Basic rule - Edit before Send ! He he! Wondered how long it would take you to catch that whether you'd get there first. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
We all have our gods. Paul On 9/4/13, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: I don't. Bob talks to god on the great white telephone now and again ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Producion --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
From: Bill On 09/04/2013 11:59 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: Public schools will survive given the vested interest that a large portion of the population has in their continued existence. Charters won't ever replace them completely. It's doubtful that we'd ever get to 50% charters. But to ensure survival, public schools will have to complete. They can no longer be lazy and take their position for granted. And that's happening in a lot of places. This discussion seems to assume that the existence of charter shoals and voucher systems is up for debate. It's not. They're operating and, in many places, succeeding. We still have much to learn about how they should be regulated and on what basis they should be allowed to compete, but going back to a schools system that is operated only by the government isn't going to happen. That's history. And in the end you will have a two tiered public education system of pure public schools funded completely by taxes and charter schools funded mostly by the public purse, with a large contingent of charter school parents annoyed that they are paying 100% of their child's tuition, while most of the people in the class are there on subsidies, and the whole thing will fall apart because of the human nature of people not wanting to pay someone else's freight. And you will end up having a repeat of the same problems your public system is having now, simply because the problem is with holding the system accountable. And probably, some smart Johnny will repeat the process You don't need competition, you need accountability. bill We're headed towards a single tier system where those kids whose parents can afford to pay tuition will go to school there won't be any public schools. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting Photos of Street Art can get you arrested
On 9 Apr 2013, at 22:37, Steve Cottrell co...@seeingeye.tv wrote: We all have our gods. Paul On 9/4/13, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: I don't. Bob talks to god on the great white telephone now and again ;-) That's not god, that's Raoul B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Posting photos of street art can get you arrested
On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 12:28:10PM -0500, Bob Sullivan wrote: I went to Catholic grade school as a yute. I don't think they paid the nuns to much. And retirement benefits are kind of iffy. Just sayin'... Retirement benefits for nuns are out of this world! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
