Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[Igor PDML-StR]

Thank you to all who responded! Below are a few comments.

Dan,
I am with you 99.5%. You cannot unsubscribe from what I call "junk SPAM", 
i.e. from sources with which you had no prior relation, in most cases sent 
by botnets ("dark spammers").


However, you can unsubscribe from the legitimate mailing lists.
(You can unsubscribe from PDML, but you can never leave. :-) )

I do not unsubscribe using links in e-mail messages, unless I am 100% 
sire it is from the legitimate source I know.

(I do check mail headers, etc.)
But even in those cases, most of the time I usually go to my profile on 
the merchant's website.

Adorama is one of those.
In this particular case, I checked that the link brings you to the same
profile.


John,
I [almost] always unsubscribe from the mailing lists when I create
an account with merchants and such. The only exception is when I might 
keep being subscribed for a while is some special that you get if you 
subscribe for a particular list.

(In those cases, I use an e-mail address that is different from
my other addresses.)

By the way, (you probably know that, but it might be useful to others) 
Gmail allows easy creation of such addresses.
E.g. if your Gmail address is john.some...@gmail.com (which is, btw, 
equivalent to the same without the dot: johnsome...@gmail.com),

you can use, e.g. john.someone+e...@gmail.com for your ebay account,
john.someone...@gmail.com for your B account, etc.
(All that without any hassle of creating new accounts, etc.)
This allows easy sorting of your messages, as well as blocking.



Paul,
I have a long history of mostly happy purchasing from Adorama (and 
Adoramapix), including the time when it was within a walking distance for 
me. That's why these bad acts from them were especially unpleasant.


Actually, I even had a favorite person at Adorama in-store Photo Lab, who 
had a great eye for colors when printing photos, and hands growing from 
the right place. I've always requested him to print my order, even if it 
would take an extra day. But I digress...


I estimate that in my work and hobbies, I interact with hundreds of 
vendors, websites, accounts, etc. If I were on the mailing list of each 
vendor from whom I purchased something or inquired about their products, 
my mailbox would be so cluttered, that I would be loosing important 
messages among the spam.

I know you are more tolerant to e-mail advertisement. I actually stopped
ordering from a few vendors who were notorious spammers and disregarded 
mailing list subscription etiquette/rules, even though they had very 
competitive.



Cheers,

Igor




 Paul Stenquist Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:43:25 -0800 wrote:

I’ve found Adorama to be very honest and helpful. I enjoy getting notices 
of sales an other offerings from them. I do get too much mail, but I can 
delete quickly!





On Jan 31, 2019, at 2:39 PM, John  wrote:

Also, whenever you have to "register" or "create an account" with a 
merchant to buy online, check the bottom of the screen on the page where 
you "agree to the Terms & Conditions".


There's usually a check box down there that says you agree for them to 
send you information and offers. Scroll down if you have to until you 
find it and UN-check the box before clicking the button to complete 
registration/create an account.


Scrupulous merchants will honor this. You shouldn't be doing business 
with unscrupulous merchants.


Otherwise, *Kill* *Filters* are your friend. Don't complain, just nuke 'em.

On 1/31/2019 13:37:51, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

Never, never "unsubscribe" by clicking the link for doing so contained in
the spam email.  That only lets them confirm that it is a live email
address and is being read or at least monitored.  They then sell than
information.
Instead, you can block all emails from that address.


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[Ken Waller]

Tell them not to let the door hit them in the ass as the leave ! 

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Daniel J. Matyola" 

Subject: Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team



MARK!

There are many Canadians here in Maui for the winter.  I am warning them
that they can expect many Americans, Brits and French to be applying for
Canadian citizenship soon.


Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:53 PM Bob W-PDML  wrote:


We don't have to put up with that sort of shit over here, we have
Europe-wide laws about it. You should apply to join the EU - I hear 
there's

a place going spare.



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[Daniel J. Matyola]

MARK!

There are many Canadians here in Maui for the winter.  I am warning them
that they can expect many Americans, Brits and French to be applying for
Canadian citizenship soon.


Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:53 PM Bob W-PDML  wrote:

> We don't have to put up with that sort of shit over here, we have
> Europe-wide laws about it. You should apply to join the EU - I hear there's
> a place going spare.
>
>
-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[Bob W-PDML]

We don't have to put up with that sort of shit over here, we have Europe-wide 
laws about it. You should apply to join the EU - I hear there's a place going 
spare.

> On 31 Jan 2019, at 18:38, Daniel J. Matyola  wrote:
> 
> Never, never "unsubscribe" by clicking the link for doing so contained in
> the spam email.  That only lets them confirm that it is a live email
> address and is being read or at least monitored.  They then sell than
> information.
> 
> Instead, you can block all emails from that address.
> 
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:53 AM Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It happened again: SPAM (aka UCE) from Adorama, despite being
>> unsubscribed.
>> 
>> With very few exceptions, with all stores and services where I have
>> accounts, I immediately unsubscribe from all their spam-lists.
>> 
>> This morning, I received a spam message from Adorama. Using the link
>> "Manage subscriptions" at the bottom of the message, I went to their
>> website and my account had the status "unsubscribed".
>> So, I called their customer service.
>> The representative who answered, told me: "You need to be unsubscribed on
>> our side too."
>> What?!
>> According to her, my preferences do not matter much.
>> 
>> I spoke with the customer service (CS) supervisor, who did not confirm
>> that there is a separate preference, but he told me that there are two
>> accounts: (he failed to explain it clearly, here is the best I could
>> get from him:) one on their end and one that I see online.
>> He assured that I am now unsubscribed, and it was probably a glitch,
>> bla-bla-bla. But he gave no clear explanation why my choice on the account
>> didn't matter, and why there was a sudden change in the subscription.
>> 
>> 
>> The problem is that it has been a recurring issue with Adorama:
>> I had already received spam from them before, despite being unsubscribed.
>> And then I unsubscribed, and the spam stopped for a while.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I have been having rather similar recurring problem with Adoramapix:
>> I started receiving spam from them in 2016, from which I
>> unsubscribed in July (2016). Then again, I started receiving spam in March
>> of 2017. I spoke with their CS manager in April of 2017, who assured me
>> that I was unsubscribed at that point again and it will stick.
>> 
>> Lo and behold, in January of 2019, I started receiving their spam again.
>> I called and spoke with the same CS manager. Unlike the Adorama manager
>> this morning, he did not mumble the nonsense about a glitch.
>> He blamed it all on their marketing department, telling me that he has no
>> control over their actions, but he made sure that I was unsubscribed again.
>> Actually, with me on the phone, he walked (presumably) to their marketing
>> department and told them: "Please make sure this address is unsubscribed."
>> But he didn't ask: "Why did this customer became subscribed again after I
>> unsubscribed him?", or better yet, "Why the hell,...?"
>> 
>> All these facts suggest that both Adorama and Adoramapix have unscrupulous
>> marketing departments that do not respect their customers.
>> I doubt it is done without the knowledge of AdoramaPix and Adorama upper
>> management.
>> 
>> I stopped using Adoramapix a while ago because of the problems I had with
>> them in July of 2016.
>> I've made many purchases from Adorama over 22-year period (the most
>> recent in December).
>> 
>> But, I have low respect for the companies who do not respect their
>> customers and their customers' preferences.
>> 
>> 
>> By the way,
>> Previously, I had a somewhat similar experience with B When I
>> complained  about that, they (Henry P. whom many PDMLers know, especially
>> Bill :-) ) were rather open about how the resubscription happens.
>> And they did eventually change their sneaky resubscription practice,
>> which I respect.
>> You can read that story from 2016 here:
>> 
>> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/106-ask-b-h-photo/326729-b-h-keeps-re-subscribing-me-e-mail-newsletters.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks for reading, and Caveat Emptor!
>> 
>> Igor
>> 
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>> follow the directions.
>> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[Paul Stenquist]

I’ve found Adorama to be very honest and helpful. I enjoy getting notices of 
sales an other offerings from them. I do get too much mail, but I can delete 
quickly!


> On Jan 31, 2019, at 2:39 PM, John  wrote:
> 
> Also, whenever you have to "register" or "create an account" with a merchant 
> to buy online, check the bottom of the screen on the page where you "agree to 
> the Terms & Conditions".
> 
> There's usually a check box down there that says you agree for them to send 
> you information and offers. Scroll down if you have to until you find it and 
> UN-check the box before clicking the button to complete registration/create 
> an account.
> 
> Scrupulous merchants will honor this. You shouldn't be doing business with 
> unscrupulous merchants.
> 
> Otherwise, *Kill* *Filters* are your friend. Don't complain, just nuke 'em.
> 
> On 1/31/2019 13:37:51, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:
>> Never, never "unsubscribe" by clicking the link for doing so contained in
>> the spam email.  That only lets them confirm that it is a live email
>> address and is being read or at least monitored.  They then sell than
>> information.
>> Instead, you can block all emails from that address.
>> Dan Matyola
>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:53 AM Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It happened again: SPAM (aka UCE) from Adorama, despite being
>>> unsubscribed.
>>> 
>>> With very few exceptions, with all stores and services where I have
>>> accounts, I immediately unsubscribe from all their spam-lists.
>>> 
>>> This morning, I received a spam message from Adorama. Using the link
>>> "Manage subscriptions" at the bottom of the message, I went to their
>>> website and my account had the status "unsubscribed".
>>> So, I called their customer service.
>>> The representative who answered, told me: "You need to be unsubscribed on
>>> our side too."
>>> What?!
>>> According to her, my preferences do not matter much.
>>> 
>>> I spoke with the customer service (CS) supervisor, who did not confirm
>>> that there is a separate preference, but he told me that there are two
>>> accounts: (he failed to explain it clearly, here is the best I could
>>> get from him:) one on their end and one that I see online.
>>> He assured that I am now unsubscribed, and it was probably a glitch,
>>> bla-bla-bla. But he gave no clear explanation why my choice on the account
>>> didn't matter, and why there was a sudden change in the subscription.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The problem is that it has been a recurring issue with Adorama:
>>> I had already received spam from them before, despite being unsubscribed.
>>> And then I unsubscribed, and the spam stopped for a while.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I have been having rather similar recurring problem with Adoramapix:
>>> I started receiving spam from them in 2016, from which I
>>> unsubscribed in July (2016). Then again, I started receiving spam in March
>>> of 2017. I spoke with their CS manager in April of 2017, who assured me
>>> that I was unsubscribed at that point again and it will stick.
>>> 
>>> Lo and behold, in January of 2019, I started receiving their spam again.
>>> I called and spoke with the same CS manager. Unlike the Adorama manager
>>> this morning, he did not mumble the nonsense about a glitch.
>>> He blamed it all on their marketing department, telling me that he has no
>>> control over their actions, but he made sure that I was unsubscribed again.
>>> Actually, with me on the phone, he walked (presumably) to their marketing
>>> department and told them: "Please make sure this address is unsubscribed."
>>> But he didn't ask: "Why did this customer became subscribed again after I
>>> unsubscribed him?", or better yet, "Why the hell,...?"
>>> 
>>> All these facts suggest that both Adorama and Adoramapix have unscrupulous
>>> marketing departments that do not respect their customers.
>>> I doubt it is done without the knowledge of AdoramaPix and Adorama upper
>>> management.
>>> 
>>> I stopped using Adoramapix a while ago because of the problems I had with
>>> them in July of 2016.
>>> I've made many purchases from Adorama over 22-year period (the most
>>> recent in December).
>>> 
>>> But, I have low respect for the companies who do not respect their
>>> customers and their customers' preferences.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> By the way,
>>> Previously, I had a somewhat similar experience with B When I
>>> complained  about that, they (Henry P. whom many PDMLers know, especially
>>> Bill :-) ) were rather open about how the resubscription happens.
>>> And they did eventually change their sneaky resubscription practice,
>>> which I respect.
>>> You can read that story from 2016 here:
>>> 
>>> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/106-ask-b-h-photo/326729-b-h-keeps-re-subscribing-me-e-mail-newsletters.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for reading, and Caveat Emptor!
>>> 
>>> Igor
>>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
> Religion - Answers we must 

Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[John]

Also, whenever you have to "register" or "create an account" with a merchant to 
buy online, check the bottom of the screen on the page where you "agree to the 
Terms & Conditions".


There's usually a check box down there that says you agree for them to send you 
information and offers. Scroll down if you have to until you find it and 
UN-check the box before clicking the button to complete registration/create an 
account.


Scrupulous merchants will honor this. You shouldn't be doing business with 
unscrupulous merchants.


Otherwise, *Kill* *Filters* are your friend. Don't complain, just nuke 'em.

On 1/31/2019 13:37:51, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

Never, never "unsubscribe" by clicking the link for doing so contained in
the spam email.  That only lets them confirm that it is a live email
address and is being read or at least monitored.  They then sell than
information.

Instead, you can block all emails from that address.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:53 AM Igor PDML-StR  wrote:




It happened again: SPAM (aka UCE) from Adorama, despite being
unsubscribed.

With very few exceptions, with all stores and services where I have
accounts, I immediately unsubscribe from all their spam-lists.

This morning, I received a spam message from Adorama. Using the link
"Manage subscriptions" at the bottom of the message, I went to their
website and my account had the status "unsubscribed".
So, I called their customer service.
The representative who answered, told me: "You need to be unsubscribed on
our side too."
What?!
According to her, my preferences do not matter much.

I spoke with the customer service (CS) supervisor, who did not confirm
that there is a separate preference, but he told me that there are two
accounts: (he failed to explain it clearly, here is the best I could
get from him:) one on their end and one that I see online.
He assured that I am now unsubscribed, and it was probably a glitch,
bla-bla-bla. But he gave no clear explanation why my choice on the account
didn't matter, and why there was a sudden change in the subscription.


The problem is that it has been a recurring issue with Adorama:
I had already received spam from them before, despite being unsubscribed.
And then I unsubscribed, and the spam stopped for a while.



I have been having rather similar recurring problem with Adoramapix:
I started receiving spam from them in 2016, from which I
unsubscribed in July (2016). Then again, I started receiving spam in March
of 2017. I spoke with their CS manager in April of 2017, who assured me
that I was unsubscribed at that point again and it will stick.

Lo and behold, in January of 2019, I started receiving their spam again.
I called and spoke with the same CS manager. Unlike the Adorama manager
this morning, he did not mumble the nonsense about a glitch.
He blamed it all on their marketing department, telling me that he has no
control over their actions, but he made sure that I was unsubscribed again.
Actually, with me on the phone, he walked (presumably) to their marketing
department and told them: "Please make sure this address is unsubscribed."
But he didn't ask: "Why did this customer became subscribed again after I
unsubscribed him?", or better yet, "Why the hell,...?"

All these facts suggest that both Adorama and Adoramapix have unscrupulous
marketing departments that do not respect their customers.
I doubt it is done without the knowledge of AdoramaPix and Adorama upper
management.

I stopped using Adoramapix a while ago because of the problems I had with
them in July of 2016.
I've made many purchases from Adorama over 22-year period (the most
recent in December).

But, I have low respect for the companies who do not respect their
customers and their customers' preferences.


By the way,
Previously, I had a somewhat similar experience with B When I
complained  about that, they (Henry P. whom many PDMLers know, especially
Bill :-) ) were rather open about how the resubscription happens.
And they did eventually change their sneaky resubscription practice,
which I respect.
You can read that story from 2016 here:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/106-ask-b-h-photo/326729-b-h-keeps-re-subscribing-me-e-mail-newsletters.html



Thanks for reading, and Caveat Emptor!

Igor





--
Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
Religion - Answers we must never question.

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama and AdoramaPix - liars with unscrupulous marketing team

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Never, never "unsubscribe" by clicking the link for doing so contained in
the spam email.  That only lets them confirm that it is a live email
address and is being read or at least monitored.  They then sell than
information.

Instead, you can block all emails from that address.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:53 AM Igor PDML-StR  wrote:

>
>
> It happened again: SPAM (aka UCE) from Adorama, despite being
> unsubscribed.
>
> With very few exceptions, with all stores and services where I have
> accounts, I immediately unsubscribe from all their spam-lists.
>
> This morning, I received a spam message from Adorama. Using the link
> "Manage subscriptions" at the bottom of the message, I went to their
> website and my account had the status "unsubscribed".
> So, I called their customer service.
> The representative who answered, told me: "You need to be unsubscribed on
> our side too."
> What?!
> According to her, my preferences do not matter much.
>
> I spoke with the customer service (CS) supervisor, who did not confirm
> that there is a separate preference, but he told me that there are two
> accounts: (he failed to explain it clearly, here is the best I could
> get from him:) one on their end and one that I see online.
> He assured that I am now unsubscribed, and it was probably a glitch,
> bla-bla-bla. But he gave no clear explanation why my choice on the account
> didn't matter, and why there was a sudden change in the subscription.
>
>
> The problem is that it has been a recurring issue with Adorama:
> I had already received spam from them before, despite being unsubscribed.
> And then I unsubscribed, and the spam stopped for a while.
>
>
>
> I have been having rather similar recurring problem with Adoramapix:
> I started receiving spam from them in 2016, from which I
> unsubscribed in July (2016). Then again, I started receiving spam in March
> of 2017. I spoke with their CS manager in April of 2017, who assured me
> that I was unsubscribed at that point again and it will stick.
>
> Lo and behold, in January of 2019, I started receiving their spam again.
> I called and spoke with the same CS manager. Unlike the Adorama manager
> this morning, he did not mumble the nonsense about a glitch.
> He blamed it all on their marketing department, telling me that he has no
> control over their actions, but he made sure that I was unsubscribed again.
> Actually, with me on the phone, he walked (presumably) to their marketing
> department and told them: "Please make sure this address is unsubscribed."
> But he didn't ask: "Why did this customer became subscribed again after I
> unsubscribed him?", or better yet, "Why the hell,...?"
>
> All these facts suggest that both Adorama and Adoramapix have unscrupulous
> marketing departments that do not respect their customers.
> I doubt it is done without the knowledge of AdoramaPix and Adorama upper
> management.
>
> I stopped using Adoramapix a while ago because of the problems I had with
> them in July of 2016.
> I've made many purchases from Adorama over 22-year period (the most
> recent in December).
>
> But, I have low respect for the companies who do not respect their
> customers and their customers' preferences.
>
>
> By the way,
> Previously, I had a somewhat similar experience with B When I
> complained  about that, they (Henry P. whom many PDMLers know, especially
> Bill :-) ) were rather open about how the resubscription happens.
> And they did eventually change their sneaky resubscription practice,
> which I respect.
> You can read that story from 2016 here:
>
> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/106-ask-b-h-photo/326729-b-h-keeps-re-subscribing-me-e-mail-newsletters.html
>
>
>
> Thanks for reading, and Caveat Emptor!
>
> Igor
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>
-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama has Pentax 17-70 at astoundingly low price.

[Mark C]

That price is really quite good. I paid a flat $500  for my copy in 
January, 2014. This has been my go to lens when using a normal zoom. I 
find my copy to be excellent when stopped down to f8 or more. It is 
somewhat soft at f4, improves significantly at 5.6 and is excellent at 
f8. It is softer than 16-45 f4 (which is really excellent) at f4 and 
f5.6, but is on par with it at f8. In terms of chromatic aberration, the 
17-70 is better than the 16-45 at all apertures, IMO. The silent 
operation of the 17-70 is really nice.


It's not a dream lens by any measure but a good workhorse. Still looking 
for the dream lens.


Mark

On 10/21/2015 6:44 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:
The reviews at Adorama are all 4 and 5 star.  A lot of the bad reviews 
seem to go back to the original SDM introduction, and we know what a 
disaster that was.


On 10/21/2015 5:11 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
I had one on loan from Pentax marketing. It was excellent, but I 
suppose it might have been cherry picked.


Paul via phone


On Oct 21, 2015, at 4:50 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:

It's the same price at Amazon. Customer reviews of it are pretty
terrible for a Pentax lens.

http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-17-70mm-Lens-Digital-Cameras/product-reviews/B001AZ8N6M/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8=1=bySubmissionDateDescending 





On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:33 PM, P.J. Alling 
 wrote:
The deal includes a 3 year extended warranty.  I wonder if that 
means that

Ricoh is going to discontinue it.

--
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve
immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
follow the directions.



--
Life is too short to put up with bad bokeh.

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above 
and follow the directions.






---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama just sent me a deal that's almost impossible to refuse.

[P.J. Alling]

The break even point on printing costs is at about at 8x10 inch size, in 
the US at least.  I compared the printer in question, (Canon Pro-100* 
ink cost, Thanks for the tip Paul), vs the prices quoted at Shutterfly 
an middle of the road on line printer, they charge $3.99 for an 8x10.  
I've still got a couple of 100 sheet boxes of Ilford Galerie Smooth 
Gloss, which is an unfair comparison I suppose, as I paid an incredibly 
low price for it, (my paper cost is about 10¢ (USD) a sheet, until it 
runs out), which with an ink cost of 87.5¢ (USD), makes it much more 
economical.**


Heck if I use paper sold at normal retail, which usually works out to 
about a $1.00 a sheet, (8 1/2 X 11 inch), for nothing special paper, up 
to $2.00 or more for much better paper), it's still cheaper to print 
large prints myself.


Plus I like having the control over the process.  That's what I liked 
about darkroom processing my own B  Not only was it less expensive, 
(especially if you could borrow someone else' darkroom), but what was 
produced was my work.


However I cannot beat the price of 4x6" or smaller prints done at a 
commercial printer in bulk.  The only time I print that size at home it 
for hard proofing.***


*The site didn't have printing costs for my current printer but they did 
have costs for one that used the same inkset, and those were within 
fractions of a cent of the Pro-100.


**That's for Canon's "expensive" ink, if I were paying for third party 
ink, which I had a very bad experience with on one of my HP printers, 
say that Dollar a cart, you're using, the costs would be even lower.


***If I'm careful even 5x7" prints are so close to the cost of a 
commercial Lab that it's worth it for the convenience, if I'm not 
printing in bulk.


On 10/24/2015 1:13 PM, Bipin Gupta wrote:

For Folks owning Canon Printers help is on hand for good 3rd Party Ink
Suppliers at a fraction of the cost of Canon Ink Cartridges.
A full set of 5 or 6 Ink Tanks can cost approx half the cost of a new Printer.

I bought the Canon Pixma 6470 for INR 4499 ($ 70) in Bangalore. Bought
the Filled Ink Cartridges for $ 1 each from Ali Express (or Ali Baba
com the equvalent of eBay in China).

Also bought a set of (6) empty refillable Ink Cartridges with Auto
Reset Chips for $ 7. My Printer is a 5-cartridge one so I can use the
extra cartridge as a replacement in case one fails. So now I can go on
filling the cartridges. The ARC (auto reset chip) transmits Ink Levels
to my Laptop.

Note: My cartridges are for the Asian region - identified by the
Cartridge nos. So please specify your cartridge # correctly. North
America
  will have the same cartridge with another #. The trick here
is the Chip Code used by Canon. Each Cartridge has a Chip on it.

I bought all the Cartridges while I was in Canada. Shipping was Free.

I tried one set of Cartridges as soon as I came to Bangalore. Works
beautifully. There could be a very slight color shift, but since I use
a Lab for all my prints, it does not bother me. The Lab gives me 13
glossy or mat prints size 6 x 4 inch for $ 1, which is far far cheaper
than the print from my Printer.

Here are the resources should you wish to try Ali Express:-
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0ihwo0bt7lcneuh/AAAgowMwc5s2ZpatJnXWFMyea?dl=0

Regards.
Bipin.




--
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve 
immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama just sent me a deal that's almost impossible to refuse.

[Ken Waller]

Plus I like having the control over the process.


That was one reason I started photo printing when I first got into digital.

But, dealing with a reputable online print outfit, I don't feel I've given 
up any of that control.
After perfecting the image, converting to jpeg, submitting on line & 
advising no alterations to the file, I've got all the control I need to get 
prints as good as I get on any of my Epson printers.


The key here is obviously using a known, reputable online outfit and 
specifying no alterations to the submitted file.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "P.J. Alling" <webstertwenty...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Adorama just sent me a deal that's almost impossible to refuse.


The break even point on printing costs is at about at 8x10 inch size, in
the US at least.  I compared the printer in question, (Canon Pro-100*
ink cost, Thanks for the tip Paul), vs the prices quoted at Shutterfly
an middle of the road on line printer, they charge $3.99 for an 8x10.
I've still got a couple of 100 sheet boxes of Ilford Galerie Smooth
Gloss, which is an unfair comparison I suppose, as I paid an incredibly
low price for it, (my paper cost is about 10¢ (USD) a sheet, until it
runs out), which with an ink cost of 87.5¢ (USD), makes it much more
economical.**

Heck if I use paper sold at normal retail, which usually works out to
about a $1.00 a sheet, (8 1/2 X 11 inch), for nothing special paper, up
to $2.00 or more for much better paper), it's still cheaper to print
large prints myself.

Plus I like having the control over the process.  That's what I liked
about darkroom processing my own B  Not only was it less expensive,
(especially if you could borrow someone else' darkroom), but what was
produced was my work.

However I cannot beat the price of 4x6" or smaller prints done at a
commercial printer in bulk.  The only time I print that size at home it
for hard proofing.***

*The site didn't have printing costs for my current printer but they did
have costs for one that used the same inkset, and those were within
fractions of a cent of the Pro-100.

**That's for Canon's "expensive" ink, if I were paying for third party
ink, which I had a very bad experience with on one of my HP printers,
say that Dollar a cart, you're using, the costs would be even lower.

***If I'm careful even 5x7" prints are so close to the cost of a
commercial Lab that it's worth it for the convenience, if I'm not
printing in bulk.

On 10/24/2015 1:13 PM, Bipin Gupta wrote:

For Folks owning Canon Printers help is on hand for good 3rd Party Ink
Suppliers at a fraction of the cost of Canon Ink Cartridges.
A full set of 5 or 6 Ink Tanks can cost approx half the cost of a new 
Printer.


I bought the Canon Pixma 6470 for INR 4499 ($ 70) in Bangalore. Bought
the Filled Ink Cartridges for $ 1 each from Ali Express (or Ali Baba
com the equvalent of eBay in China).

Also bought a set of (6) empty refillable Ink Cartridges with Auto
Reset Chips for $ 7. My Printer is a 5-cartridge one so I can use the
extra cartridge as a replacement in case one fails. So now I can go on
filling the cartridges. The ARC (auto reset chip) transmits Ink Levels
to my Laptop.

Note: My cartridges are for the Asian region - identified by the
Cartridge nos. So please specify your cartridge # correctly. North
America
  will have the same cartridge with another #. The trick here
is the Chip Code used by Canon. Each Cartridge has a Chip on it.

I bought all the Cartridges while I was in Canada. Shipping was Free.

I tried one set of Cartridges as soon as I came to Bangalore. Works
beautifully. There could be a very slight color shift, but since I use
a Lab for all my prints, it does not bother me. The Lab gives me 13
glossy or mat prints size 6 x 4 inch for $ 1, which is far far cheaper
than the print from my Printer.

Here are the resources should you wish to try Ali Express:-
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0ihwo0bt7lcneuh/AAAgowMwc5s2ZpatJnXWFMyea?dl=0

Regards.
Bipin.



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama has Pentax 17-70 at astoundingly low price.

[Paul Stenquist]

I had one on loan from Pentax marketing. It was excellent, but I suppose it 
might have been cherry picked.

Paul via phone

> On Oct 21, 2015, at 4:50 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
> 
> It's the same price at Amazon. Customer reviews of it are pretty
> terrible for a Pentax lens.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-17-70mm-Lens-Digital-Cameras/product-reviews/B001AZ8N6M/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8=1=bySubmissionDateDescending
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:33 PM, P.J. Alling  
>> wrote:
>> The deal includes a 3 year extended warranty.  I wonder if that means that
>> Ricoh is going to discontinue it.
>> 
>> --
>> I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve
>> immortality through not dying.
>> -- Woody Allen
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>> follow the directions.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Life is too short to put up with bad bokeh.
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama has Pentax 17-70 at astoundingly low price.

[Darren Addy]

It's the same price at Amazon. Customer reviews of it are pretty
terrible for a Pentax lens.

http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-17-70mm-Lens-Digital-Cameras/product-reviews/B001AZ8N6M/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8=1=bySubmissionDateDescending



On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:33 PM, P.J. Alling  wrote:
> The deal includes a 3 year extended warranty.  I wonder if that means that
> Ricoh is going to discontinue it.
>
> --
> I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve
> immortality through not dying.
> -- Woody Allen
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.



-- 
Life is too short to put up with bad bokeh.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama has Pentax 17-70 at astoundingly low price.

[P.J. Alling]

The reviews at Adorama are all 4 and 5 star.  A lot of the bad reviews 
seem to go back to the original SDM introduction, and we know what a 
disaster that was.


On 10/21/2015 5:11 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

I had one on loan from Pentax marketing. It was excellent, but I suppose it 
might have been cherry picked.

Paul via phone


On Oct 21, 2015, at 4:50 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:

It's the same price at Amazon. Customer reviews of it are pretty
terrible for a Pentax lens.

http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-17-70mm-Lens-Digital-Cameras/product-reviews/B001AZ8N6M/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8=1=bySubmissionDateDescending




On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:33 PM, P.J. Alling  wrote:
The deal includes a 3 year extended warranty.  I wonder if that means that
Ricoh is going to discontinue it.

--
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve
immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
follow the directions.



--
Life is too short to put up with bad bokeh.

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.



--
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve 
immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama has Pentax 17-70 at astoundingly low price.

[David J Brooks]

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:44 PM, P.J. Alling  wrote:
> The reviews at Adorama are all 4 and 5 star.  A lot of the bad reviews seem
> to go back to the original SDM introduction, and we know what a disaster
> that was.

My two copies were horrible, maybe they were older lenses in the warehouse

Dave
>
>
> On 10/21/2015 5:11 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>>
>> I had one on loan from Pentax marketing. It was excellent, but I suppose
>> it might have been cherry picked.
>>
>> Paul via phone
>>
>>> On Oct 21, 2015, at 4:50 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
>>>
>>> It's the same price at Amazon. Customer reviews of it are pretty
>>> terrible for a Pentax lens.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-17-70mm-Lens-Digital-Cameras/product-reviews/B001AZ8N6M/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8=1=bySubmissionDateDescending
>>>
>>>
>>>
 On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:33 PM, P.J. Alling
  wrote:
 The deal includes a 3 year extended warranty.  I wonder if that means
 that
 Ricoh is going to discontinue it.

 --
 I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve
 immortality through not dying.
 -- Woody Allen


 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
 follow the directions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Life is too short to put up with bad bokeh.
>>>
>>> --
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>>> follow the directions.
>
>
>
> --
> I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve
> immortality through not dying.
> -- Woody Allen
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.



-- 
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[Aahz Maruch]

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013, P. J. Alling wrote:
 On 2/13/2013 1:59 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote:

Anyway, my original post was mostly a joke about electronics upgrade
cycles.

 Well, if you're going to resist LBA I'm not sure how we're going to
 do our job.

There's a guy named Donald Norman, an expert on design, probably best
known for a book titled _The Design of Everyday Things_.  These days
he's also known for ranting about web design.

Another of his books is _Headlights are the Facial Expressions of
Automobiles_, and in it he mentions that his family has a rule that they
must answer a series of questions before buying a new gadget.  I don't
remember his version, here's the version my primary and I use:

* Where are you going to use it?
* Where are you going to plug it in?
* How will you clean it?
* Where will you store it?

Our shorthand for referring to the rule is to cry out Donald!

This is a [somewhat] effective deterrent against LBA and other forms of
acquisitiveness.  Plus I'm just a skinflint by nature, in some respects.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  *   *   *
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies-$739

[Joseph McAllister]

On Feb 14, 2013, at 01:29 , Bipin Gupta wrote:

 The mighty BH. They sold me a K-20D in
 April 21, 2009 with a shutter count of (625). The camera manufacturing
 date was April 15, 2008 - one year from the date of sale. Lucky for me
 the K-20D turned out to be a work horse - great night shots even at
 ISO 1600.
 I came to know this much later when the Pentax Forum put up a web site
 to check the mfg date and shutter count.

Segue for a bit with little reference other than night shots.

A beautiful image taken in Alaska by Todd Salat, and today's APOD.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap130212.html

How did he light the lilies? 
Without the flash being observed in the photo?


Joseph McAllister
jo...@mac.com

It seems that I need to stop my mind running off at the fingertips.
— Mike Wilson


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies-$739

[Larry Colen]

 Segue for a bit with little reference other than night shots.

 A beautiful image taken in Alaska by Todd Salat, and today's APOD.

Yes, lovely.


 http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap130212.html

 How did he light the lilies?
 Without the flash being observed in the photo?

What was the date of the photo?  What phase was the moon?

Light seems to be coming from the south.

-- 
l...@red4est.com via squirrelmail


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies-$739

[Darren Addy]

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:




 Segue for a bit with little reference other than night shots.

 A beautiful image taken in Alaska by Todd Salat, and today's APOD.

 Yes, lovely.


 http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap130212.html

 How did he light the lilies?
 Without the flash being observed in the photo?

 What was the date of the photo?  What phase was the moon?

 Light seems to be coming from the south.

The above image link takes you to the photographer's page with the
details. He says I used my little headlamp to paint the lily pads
with a beam of light.
 Moonrise for the date wasn't until after 3 AM (he doesn't give an
exact time of the exposure). They were not far from Anchorage, AK, so
skyglow could have provided some ambient light, as well.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies-$739

[Joseph McAllister]

On Feb 14, 2013, at 10:40 , Darren Addy wrote:

 On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:
 
 
 
 
 Segue for a bit with little reference other than night shots.
 
 A beautiful image taken in Alaska by Todd Salat, and today's APOD.
 
 Yes, lovely.
 
 
 http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap130212.html
 
 How did he light the lilies?
 Without the flash being observed in the photo?
 
 What was the date of the photo?  What phase was the moon?
 
 Light seems to be coming from the south.
 
 The above image link takes you to the photographer's page with the
 details. He says I used my little headlamp to paint the lily pads
 with a beam of light.
 Moonrise for the date wasn't until after 3 AM (he doesn't give an
 exact time of the exposure). They were not far from Anchorage, AK, so
 skyglow could have provided some ambient light, as well.

Full text of the image:
The Lily Red Experience

My wife  I busted out of Anchorage on our much-anticipated September aurora 
hunt, an event that marks the end of the busy Alaskan summer season. We headed 
northeast up the Glenn Highway, took a left at the Lake Louise junction, then 
bounced down a pothole-filled side road. We popped up the truck camper along 
one of my favorite ponds that dot the region and stepped out into crisp, clear 
and calm conditions. Stardate: September 13, 2012.

The smell of fall was in the air and, as my eyes adjusted to the darkness, an 
aurora glow became apparent on the far northern horizon. Time to go to work, 
although it felt more like play. The Milky Way galaxy stretched upward against 
the deep black new moon (ie, no moon) skies while the bright pinpoint of 
Jupiter shone like a beacon in the V-shaped pattern of Taurus the Bull (just 
above the clouds). Further above, the tight but bright Seven Sisters of the 
Pleiades open cluster twinkled prominently.

I set the exposure time for 20-seconds to burn in the starfield and, lo and 
behold, a red glow appeared. I have seen the coveted red northern lights this 
bright to the naked eye in the past but they are very rare. In this case, the 
camera gets much credit for acting like night-vision goggles and revealing what 
the less sensitive human eye has a harder time detecting. To complete this 
composition, while the camera shutter was still locked open, I used my little 
headlamp to paint the lily pads with a beam of light. Lily Red set the mood 
for a great trip.

Photograph Information:

Year:   2012
Aperture:   f2.8
Shutter:20 sec
ISO:4000
Shot with a Nikon Digital using a Nikon 17-35mm/f2.8 lens.

It sorta looks to me like he ran a lighten wand over the right hand far 
shore. It gets grey and fuzzy before going back to black silhouetted trees.

Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com
--
“ Nature is considerably more creative and inventive than humankind. Without 
Nature there isn't any humankind. Without humankind, Nature is fine.”


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies-$739

[kwaller]

I heard the term painting with light used to describe this method.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com

Subject: Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies-$739



On Feb 14, 2013, at 10:40 , Darren Addy wrote:


On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:






Segue for a bit with little reference other than night shots.

A beautiful image taken in Alaska by Todd Salat, and today's APOD.


Yes, lovely.



http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap130212.html

How did he light the lilies?
Without the flash being observed in the photo?


What was the date of the photo?  What phase was the moon?

Light seems to be coming from the south.


The above image link takes you to the photographer's page with the
details. He says I used my little headlamp to paint the lily pads
with a beam of light.
Moonrise for the date wasn't until after 3 AM (he doesn't give an
exact time of the exposure). They were not far from Anchorage, AK, so
skyglow could have provided some ambient light, as well.


Full text of the image:
The Lily Red Experience

My wife  I busted out of Anchorage on our much-anticipated September aurora 
hunt, an event that marks the end of the busy Alaskan summer season. We 
headed northeast up the Glenn Highway, took a left at the Lake Louise 
junction, then bounced down a pothole-filled side road. We popped up the 
truck camper along one of my favorite ponds that dot the region and stepped 
out into crisp, clear and calm conditions. Stardate: September 13, 2012.


The smell of fall was in the air and, as my eyes adjusted to the darkness, 
an aurora glow became apparent on the far northern horizon. Time to go to 
work, although it felt more like play. The Milky Way galaxy stretched upward 
against the deep black new moon (ie, no moon) skies while the bright 
pinpoint of Jupiter shone like a beacon in the V-shaped pattern of Taurus 
the Bull (just above the clouds). Further above, the tight but bright Seven 
Sisters of the Pleiades open cluster twinkled prominently.


I set the exposure time for 20-seconds to burn in the starfield and, lo and 
behold, a red glow appeared. I have seen the coveted red northern lights 
this bright to the naked eye in the past but they are very rare. In this 
case, the camera gets much credit for acting like night-vision goggles and 
revealing what the less sensitive human eye has a harder time detecting. To 
complete this composition, while the camera shutter was still locked open, I 
used my little headlamp to paint the lily pads with a beam of light. Lily 
Red set the mood for a great trip.


Photograph Information:

Year: 2012
Aperture: f2.8
Shutter: 20 sec
ISO: 4000
Shot with a Nikon Digital using a Nikon 17-35mm/f2.8 lens.

It sorta looks to me like he ran a lighten wand over the right hand far 
shore. It gets grey and fuzzy before going back to black silhouetted trees.


Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com
--
“ Nature is considerably more creative and inventive than humankind. Without 
Nature there isn't any humankind. Without humankind, Nature is fine.”



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies-$739

[David Savage]

Yep. Light painting:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/disavage/8066794910/in/set-72157606164837981

http://www.flickr.com/photos/disavage/8161138246/in/set-72157606164837981

On 15/02/2013, kwal...@peoplepc.com kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote:
 I heard the term painting with light used to describe this method.

 Kenneth Waller
 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

 - Original Message -
 From: Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com
 Subject: Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies-$739



 On Feb 14, 2013, at 10:40 , Darren Addy wrote:

 On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:




 Segue for a bit with little reference other than night shots.

 A beautiful image taken in Alaska by Todd Salat, and today's APOD.

 Yes, lovely.


 http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap130212.html

 How did he light the lilies?
 Without the flash being observed in the photo?

 What was the date of the photo?  What phase was the moon?

 Light seems to be coming from the south.

 The above image link takes you to the photographer's page with the
 details. He says I used my little headlamp to paint the lily pads
 with a beam of light.
 Moonrise for the date wasn't until after 3 AM (he doesn't give an
 exact time of the exposure). They were not far from Anchorage, AK, so
 skyglow could have provided some ambient light, as well.

 Full text of the image:
 The Lily Red Experience

 My wife  I busted out of Anchorage on our much-anticipated September aurora

 hunt, an event that marks the end of the busy Alaskan summer season. We
 headed northeast up the Glenn Highway, took a left at the Lake Louise
 junction, then bounced down a pothole-filled side road. We popped up the
 truck camper along one of my favorite ponds that dot the region and stepped

 out into crisp, clear and calm conditions. Stardate: September 13, 2012.

 The smell of fall was in the air and, as my eyes adjusted to the darkness,
 an aurora glow became apparent on the far northern horizon. Time to go to
 work, although it felt more like play. The Milky Way galaxy stretched upward

 against the deep black new moon (ie, no moon) skies while the bright
 pinpoint of Jupiter shone like a beacon in the V-shaped pattern of Taurus
 the Bull (just above the clouds). Further above, the tight but bright Seven

 Sisters of the Pleiades open cluster twinkled prominently.

 I set the exposure time for 20-seconds to burn in the starfield and, lo and

 behold, a red glow appeared. I have seen the coveted red northern lights
 this bright to the naked eye in the past but they are very rare. In this
 case, the camera gets much credit for acting like night-vision goggles and
 revealing what the less sensitive human eye has a harder time detecting. To

 complete this composition, while the camera shutter was still locked open, I

 used my little headlamp to paint the lily pads with a beam of light. Lily
 Red set the mood for a great trip.

 Photograph Information:

 Year: 2012
 Aperture: f2.8
 Shutter: 20 sec
 ISO: 4000
 Shot with a Nikon Digital using a Nikon 17-35mm/f2.8 lens.

 It sorta looks to me like he ran a lighten wand over the right hand far
 shore. It gets grey and fuzzy before going back to black silhouetted trees.

 Joseph McAllister
 pentax...@mac.com
 --
 “ Nature is considerably more creative and inventive than humankind. Without

 Nature there isn't any humankind. Without humankind, Nature is fine.”


 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
 follow the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[Walt]

Seconded.

I paid the same amount Adorama is asking for their used body (and just 
passed the 10,000-actuation mark on the shutter over the weekend), and 
I'm well-nigh ecstatic.


-- Walt

On 2/13/2013 11:06 AM, Darren Addy wrote:

...and free shipping. http://www.adorama.com/IPXK5.html
That's $10 less than Beach Camera is offering them through Amazon.

Adorama also has a used one for $649.

The K-5 is such a great camera... if you've been on the fence, this is
the same body that was a grand not that long ago and there still isn't
an APS-C camera that can surpass it.




--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[Aahz Maruch]

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013, Darren Addy wrote:
 
 The K-5 is such a great camera... if you've been on the fence, this is
 the same body that was a grand not that long ago and there still isn't
 an APS-C camera that can surpass it.

Not even the K-5 IIs?
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  *   *   *
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[Larry Colen]

 On Wed, Feb 13, 2013, Darren Addy wrote:

 The K-5 is such a great camera... if you've been on the fence, this is
 the same body that was a grand not that long ago and there still isn't
 an APS-C camera that can surpass it.

 Not even the K-5 IIs?

That depends.  The IIs seems to outperform the K-5 in two major ways:
1) Low light autofocus.  If you take a lot of photos in a room where it is
too dark to read, this can be big advantage.  If not, it's probably not
something that you'd notice much.

2) It seems as if it has a titch better resolution on the sensor.  We are
already talking sensors with pixel densities where diffraction could be an
issue at commonly used f/stops.  Sensor resolution that pushes the
performance of many lenses. In other words if you have also spent $700 on
a tripod, and at least that on a good lens, and you do everything right,
and you print your photos at 20x30 inches, and look at them from six
inches away, you'll notice the difference between the K-5 and the IIs.

However, if you're planning on buying a K-5 IIs and want a backup body
that is usually indistinguishable, even going past ISO 6400 :-), this
could be a damn good deal.

I don't know what it would cost to rent a K30 for your trip, but there are
a lot of good arguments that buying a K-5 at this price would be a better
deal.  A good chunk of the price would be covered by not having to rent a
K30, and the UI will be pretty much identical to the IIs, so you don't get
the cognitive dissonance going from one to the other.  Also, rather than
spending a month or so learning the quirks of the K-x, then having to
relearn the tricks for the IIs, you're optimizing your learning.

Also, if you decide that you really can't live without a katzeye focusing
screen, you can mount one in it.

For that matter, I've put a lot of mileage on my K-5.  Make me an offer
and I might be interested in trading you mine and some cash for a brand
new one, dropping your cost even further.

-- 
l...@red4est.com via squirrelmail


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[steve harley]

on 2013-02-13 10:06 Darren Addy wrote

...and free shipping. http://www.adorama.com/IPXK5.html
That's $10 less than Beach Camera is offering them through Amazon.


bizarre price fluctuations at this stage in product cycle; i bought mine in 
December for $660 shipped from BuyDig (which is said to be equivalent to Beach)





--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[P. J. Alling]

The price has been drifting lower since last July. I've seen it hitting 
$699. various places since December, (wish I'd caught that $660 price 
since it's below my current buy threshold, Oh well).


On 2/13/2013 1:09 PM, steve harley wrote:

on 2013-02-13 10:06 Darren Addy wrote

...and free shipping. http://www.adorama.com/IPXK5.html
That's $10 less than Beach Camera is offering them through Amazon.


bizarre price fluctuations at this stage in product cycle; i bought 
mine in December for $660 shipped from BuyDig (which is said to be 
equivalent to Beach)








--
Buy a Leica to get the full “Leica Experience”, (a quick reduction of funds in 
the bank account).


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[Aahz Maruch]

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013, Larry Colen wrote:

 I don't know what it would cost to rent a K30 for your trip, but there are
 a lot of good arguments that buying a K-5 at this price would be a better
 deal.  A good chunk of the price would be covered by not having to rent a
 K30, and the UI will be pretty much identical to the IIs, so you don't get
 the cognitive dissonance going from one to the other.  Also, rather than
 spending a month or so learning the quirks of the K-x, then having to
 relearn the tricks for the IIs, you're optimizing your learning.

The K-30 is renting about the same as a K-5.  But that's not the point:
only reason I'd rent a K-30 is if Stef decides she prefers the K-30,
otherwise I'm renting two K-5 IIs.

The whole reason I decided to rent for the trip is because my experience
with the Panasonic G3 made it pretty clear that my normal photo style
isn't oriented toward an ILC's bulk and weight these days.  I'm making an
exception for this trip, but I don't want to spend the money for body
*and* lenses for something that's likely once in a lifetime.

Plus it took me several months to get around to getting rid of the G3,
so buying and then selling isn't something I want to deal with this time
around.  If this trip ends up being so much fun that I want to buy a K-5
after all -- well, it was a learning experience.  ;-)

Anyway, my original post was mostly a joke about electronics upgrade
cycles.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  *   *   *
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[Walt]

It is amusing to think back on how long I thought I'd use my K-x before 
I'd finally have to upgrade. I mean, I was actually worried about the 
shutter life at one point!


-- Walt

On 2/13/2013 12:59 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote:

Anyway, my original post was mostly a joke about electronics upgrade
cycles.



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[P. J. Alling]

On 2/13/2013 1:59 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote:

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013, Larry Colen wrote:

I don't know what it would cost to rent a K30 for your trip, but there are
a lot of good arguments that buying a K-5 at this price would be a better
deal.  A good chunk of the price would be covered by not having to rent a
K30, and the UI will be pretty much identical to the IIs, so you don't get
the cognitive dissonance going from one to the other.  Also, rather than
spending a month or so learning the quirks of the K-x, then having to
relearn the tricks for the IIs, you're optimizing your learning.

The K-30 is renting about the same as a K-5.  But that's not the point:
only reason I'd rent a K-30 is if Stef decides she prefers the K-30,
otherwise I'm renting two K-5 IIs.

The whole reason I decided to rent for the trip is because my experience
with the Panasonic G3 made it pretty clear that my normal photo style
isn't oriented toward an ILC's bulk and weight these days.  I'm making an
exception for this trip, but I don't want to spend the money for body
*and* lenses for something that's likely once in a lifetime.

Plus it took me several months to get around to getting rid of the G3,
so buying and then selling isn't something I want to deal with this time
around.  If this trip ends up being so much fun that I want to buy a K-5
after all -- well, it was a learning experience.  ;-)

Anyway, my original post was mostly a joke about electronics upgrade
cycles.
Well, if you're going to resist LBA I'm not sure how we're going to do 
our job.


--
Buy a Leica to get the full “Leica Experience”, (a quick reduction of funds in 
the bank account).


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[Walt]

On 2/13/2013 1:33 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
Well, if you're going to resist LBA I'm not sure how we're going to do 
our job. 

I think it's time for an intervention of sorts.

Perhaps an Auditing.

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[Darren Addy]

The K-30 is not really even close to the K-5, specs-wise.
K-5 is 14-bits per pixel
K-30 is 12-bits per pixel
That's not just a number, that translates to a 1.1EV improvement in
dynamic range for the K-5 over the K-30 (which is significant).

K-5's pixel pitch is 4.81
K-30's pixel pitch is 3.18
That has to mean more noise at equiv. ISOs

Comparing the K-5 with the K-5iis, here is a guy who argues against
the removal of the anti-alias filter. I think his car/brakes analogy
is a very bad one, but not so sure about the point he's making
otherwise:
http://www.martin-doppelbauer.de/foto/tippstricks/aliasfilter/index.html
His conclusion is that: Digital cameras without aliasing filters are
cameras with a built-in design flaw and driven my marketing only.

Other than that, the purported AF improvement is so marginal that I
really can't see anybody saying with a straight face that the K-5IIS
body is worth $450 more than the K-5 body.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[Matthew Hunt]

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 K-5's pixel pitch is 4.81
 K-30's pixel pitch is 3.18
 That has to mean more noise at equiv. ISOs

That is in error--a DxO brain fart. It's the same megapixels in the
same size sensor, so the pixel pitch is obviously the same.

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-30/201327-k-30-lower-pixel-pitch-than-k-5-k-01-a.html

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[Darren Addy]

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Matthew Hunt m...@pobox.com wrote:
 On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 K-5's pixel pitch is 4.81
 K-30's pixel pitch is 3.18
 That has to mean more noise at equiv. ISOs

 That is in error--a DxO brain fart. It's the same megapixels in the
 same size sensor, so the pixel pitch is obviously the same.

 http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-30/201327-k-30-lower-pixel-pitch-than-k-5-k-01-a.html

Yep, you are right about that. Emily Litella voice: Never mind!
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_men0gvYILY1qk16kc.jpg
: )

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama: Last call on K-5 bodies $739

[steve harley]

on 2013-02-13 11:48 P. J. Alling wrote

The price has been drifting lower since last July. I've seen it hitting $699.
various places since December, (wish I'd caught that $660 price since it's
below my current buy threshold, Oh well).


yes, that was when it hit my threshold; the overall drift downward is clear, 
what's odd it has bumped back up a bit, and stuck for a while; perhaps once 
freshness of the K-5II settled, people realized what a comparative bargain the 
K-5 had become and demand picked up




--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: Adorama piece on fast fifties

[John Sessoms]

From: Steven Desjardins


Interesting to me, at least:

http://www.adorama.com/ALC/Article.aspx?alias=50mm-lens-shoot-out-f18-or-f14utm_source=ETutm_medium=Emailutm_campaign=EmailALC122910


Canikon vs Nikanon.

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama piece on fast fifties

[Steven Desjardins]

I know,.  It was the sensor statements that I hadn't heard before.

On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:05 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:
 From: Steven Desjardins

 Interesting to me, at least:


 http://www.adorama.com/ALC/Article.aspx?alias=50mm-lens-shoot-out-f18-or-f14utm_source=ETutm_medium=Emailutm_campaign=EmailALC122910

 Canikon vs Nikanon.

 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
 follow the directions.




-- 
Steve Desjardins

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama piece on fast fifties

[John Sessoms]

From: Steven Desjardins


I know,.  It was the sensor statements that I hadn't heard before.


And no dis intended, but I'd be more interested if they had included 
the Pentax sensors. One of the conclusions is that the faster lens 
allows light to hit the sensor at oblique angles at the edges, negating 
the advantage of the faster lens.


I'd be curious to know if that is holds true when using the fast lens on 
a camera with an APS-C sensor (like Pentax) as it apparently does on the 
two cameras listed that both have FX sensors?




On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:05 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:

 From: Steven Desjardins


 Interesting to me, at least:


 
http://www.adorama.com/ALC/Article.aspx?alias=50mm-lens-shoot-out-f18-or-f14utm_source=ETutm_medium=Emailutm_campaign=EmailALC122910


 Canikon vs Nikanon.


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama piece on fast fifties

[Steven Desjardins]

I should have pointed out the part I found interesting given that
Pentax isn't mentioned.  I did wonder about the smaller sensor because
of the cropping of the image with an FA lens.

On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 6:41 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:
 From: Steven Desjardins

 I know,.  It was the sensor statements that I hadn't heard before.

 And no dis intended, but I'd be more interested if they had included the
 Pentax sensors. One of the conclusions is that the faster lens allows light
 to hit the sensor at oblique angles at the edges, negating the advantage of
 the faster lens.

 I'd be curious to know if that is holds true when using the fast lens on a
 camera with an APS-C sensor (like Pentax) as it apparently does on the two
 cameras listed that both have FX sensors?


 On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:05 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com
 wrote:

  From: Steven Desjardins
 

  Interesting to me, at least:
 
 
 
  http://www.adorama.com/ALC/Article.aspx?alias=50mm-lens-shoot-out-f18-or-f14utm_source=ETutm_medium=Emailutm_campaign=EmailALC122910

 
  Canikon vs Nikanon.

 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
 follow the directions.




-- 
Steve Desjardins

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama piece on fast fifties

[Steve Sharpe]

At 2:04 PM -0500 12/29/10, Steven Desjardins wrote:

Interesting to me, at least:

http://www.adorama.com/ALC/Article.aspx?alias=50mm-lens-shoot-out-f18-or-f14utm_source=ETutm_medium=Emailutm_campaign=EmailALC122910



Interesting comment about how a lens hood improves the image quality 
of the FA50 F1.4.


--

Steve Sharpe
d...@eastlink.ca
•

http://earth.delith.com/photo_gallery.html


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama piece on fast fifties

[David Parsons]

The sensels are constructed the same way, so it's reasonable that
they'd have the same characteristics.  Just using the center of the
lens won't negate that the sensels don't respond well to obliquely
angled light.

On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 6:41 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:
 From: Steven Desjardins

 I know,.  It was the sensor statements that I hadn't heard before.

 And no dis intended, but I'd be more interested if they had included the
 Pentax sensors. One of the conclusions is that the faster lens allows light
 to hit the sensor at oblique angles at the edges, negating the advantage of
 the faster lens.

 I'd be curious to know if that is holds true when using the fast lens on a
 camera with an APS-C sensor (like Pentax) as it apparently does on the two
 cameras listed that both have FX sensors?


 On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:05 PM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com
 wrote:

  From: Steven Desjardins
 

  Interesting to me, at least:
 
 
 
  http://www.adorama.com/ALC/Article.aspx?alias=50mm-lens-shoot-out-f18-or-f14utm_source=ETutm_medium=Emailutm_campaign=EmailALC122910

 
  Canikon vs Nikanon.

 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
 follow the directions.




-- 
David Parsons Photography
http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com

Aloha Photographer Photoblog
http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[John Sessoms]

I've had the same kind of go round with BH; merchandise that did not 
meet spec, and a vendor who did not want to take responsibility.


In my case it was the software for a Spyder Pro monitor calibration 
device I purchased from them. The software came without a serial number 
label and would not install without the serial number.


BH referred me to the manufacturer who referred me back to BH. Each 
claimed it was the others responsibility to make good on the transaction.


Ultimately it was resolved to my satisfaction (mostly - I finally got a 
serial number I could use), but it was not easy or quick.


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Bob Sullivan]

We knew that...

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote:
 Should be

 ran into the same thing awhile back from B+H while I was shopping for a new
 Gitzo tripod.

 Kenneth Waller
 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

 - Original Message - From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com
 Subject: Re: Adorama


 Saw something awhile back from B+H while I was shopping for a new Gitzo
 tripod.

 Fuggeta bout it and move on.

 Kenneth Waller
 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

 - Original Message - From: Bob W p...@web-options.com
 Subject: RE: Adorama


 You may remember my asking for feedback on a Manfrotto Compact Ball
 Head 496 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate a while back. At the time I
 inquired the head was being offered at Adorama with a $50 rebate. The
 offer was clear. It is still in effect.
 http://www.adorama.com/BG496RC2.html?utm_source=dealtimeutm_medium=Sho
 pping%20Siteutm_campaign=Otherutm_term=Other

 [...]

 Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me? If
 me, what recourse do I have?

 I don't think you have a leg to stand on, but I think they're being
 stupid
 in not making it clear up front that you have to buy the tripod to get
 the
 rebate. As it stands theyre probably annoying a few potential buyers,
 which
 can never be good business.

 B


 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
 follow the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 23, 2010, at 1:07 AM, Ken Waller wrote:

 ran into the same thing awhile back from B+H while I was shopping for a new 
 Gitzo tripod.

Thanks, Ken. It's over.

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Ken Waller]

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com

Subject: Re: Adorama



We knew that...


Thanks Bob, but I wanted to acknowledge the error so the list wouldn't think 
I was drinking - at least yet.  ;+}




On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote:

Should be

ran into the same thing awhile back from B+H while I was shopping for a 
new

Gitzo tripod.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com
Subject: Re: Adorama



Saw something awhile back from B+H while I was shopping for a new Gitzo
tripod.

Fuggeta bout it and move on.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - From: Bob W p...@web-options.com
Subject: RE: Adorama



You may remember my asking for feedback on a Manfrotto Compact Ball
Head 496 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate a while back. At the time I
inquired the head was being offered at Adorama with a $50 rebate. The
offer was clear. It is still in effect.
http://www.adorama.com/BG496RC2.html?utm_source=dealtimeutm_medium=Sho
pping%20Siteutm_campaign=Otherutm_term=Other


[...]


Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me? 
If

me, what recourse do I have?


I don't think you have a leg to stand on, but I think they're being
stupid
in not making it clear up front that you have to buy the tripod to get
the
rebate. As it stands theyre probably annoying a few potential buyers,
which
can never be good business.

B



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[eckinator]

Did you get a Gitzo then? I'll take delivery of one next week or so as
part of my effort to build a business around used photo gear. Having
heard so many good things about them, I look forward to giving it a
good try before selling it again, hopefully at a profit.
Cheers
Ecke

2010/12/23 Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com:

 Kenneth Waller
 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

 - Original Message - From: Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: Adorama


 We knew that...

 Thanks Bob, but I wanted to acknowledge the error so the list wouldn't think
 I was drinking - at least yet.  ;+}


 On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote:

 Should be

 ran into the same thing awhile back from B+H while I was shopping for a
 new
 Gitzo tripod.

 Kenneth Waller
 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

 - Original Message - From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com
 Subject: Re: Adorama


 Saw something awhile back from B+H while I was shopping for a new Gitzo
 tripod.

 Fuggeta bout it and move on.

 Kenneth Waller
 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

 - Original Message - From: Bob W p...@web-options.com
 Subject: RE: Adorama


 You may remember my asking for feedback on a Manfrotto Compact Ball
 Head 496 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate a while back. At the time I
 inquired the head was being offered at Adorama with a $50 rebate. The
 offer was clear. It is still in effect.

 http://www.adorama.com/BG496RC2.html?utm_source=dealtimeutm_medium=Sho
 pping%20Siteutm_campaign=Otherutm_term=Other

 [...]

 Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me?
 If
 me, what recourse do I have?

 I don't think you have a leg to stand on, but I think they're being
 stupid
 in not making it clear up front that you have to buy the tripod to get
 the
 rebate. As it stands theyre probably annoying a few potential buyers,
 which
 can never be good business.

 B


 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
 follow the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Ken Waller]

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: eckinator eckina...@gmail.com

Subject: Re: Adorama



Did you get a Gitzo then? I'll take delivery of one next week or so as
part of my effort to build a business around used photo gear. Having
heard so many good things about them, I look forward to giving it a
good try before selling it again, hopefully at a profit.


Yep, I got a 3530LS. I  had a  Gitzo 1548 that was bought solely for my 
600mm. It had an annoying feature that in led to my selling it - the 3 
section legs rotated when you tried to lock/unlock them  - it required two 
hands on each leg to extend/or retract them. With the 3530LS they 
incorporated so called 'G' locks that only required one hand to 
extend/retract. A definite improvement which makes you wonder why this issue 
wasn't noticed by them in the development stage - I mean they've been making 
them for years.


Anbother reason to get the 3530 was that it weighed significantly less than 
the 1548 (both carbon fiber)
and in fact weighed less than my everyday Bogen (that I sold to a list 
member) - so I went from two tripods down to one and with what I sold both 
tripods for It was a wash on the 3530.


Out of the box the 3530 had some build in issues also - the rubber feet 
needed to be 'Loctited' in as they would back out during usage and I'd 
probably have lost one before I was told to look out for it. It also had an 
improperly torqued top bolt that allowed the top plate to to move out of 
position that would have eventually detatched from the tripod legs with head 
and lens attached.


A lot of money for these Gitzos but I feel I'll never have to but another 
tripod.



Cheers
Ecke


2010/12/23 Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com:


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - From: Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Adorama



We knew that...


Thanks Bob, but I wanted to acknowledge the error so the list wouldn't 
think

I was drinking - at least yet. ;+}



On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com 
wrote:


Should be

ran into the same thing awhile back from B+H while I was shopping for a
new
Gitzo tripod.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com
Subject: Re: Adorama



Saw something awhile back from B+H while I was shopping for a new Gitzo
tripod.

Fuggeta bout it and move on.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - From: Bob W p...@web-options.com
Subject: RE: Adorama



You may remember my asking for feedback on a Manfrotto Compact Ball
Head 496 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate a while back. At the time I
inquired the head was being offered at Adorama with a $50 rebate. The
offer was clear. It is still in effect.

http://www.adorama.com/BG496RC2.html?utm_source=dealtimeutm_medium=Sho
pping%20Siteutm_campaign=Otherutm_term=Other


[...]


Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me?
If
me, what recourse do I have?


I don't think you have a leg to stand on, but I think they're being
stupid
in not making it clear up front that you have to buy the tripod to get
the
rebate. As it stands theyre probably annoying a few potential buyers,
which
can never be good business.

B
. 



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: Adorama

[Bob W]

 You may remember my asking for feedback on a Manfrotto Compact Ball
 Head 496 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate a while back. At the time I
 inquired the head was being offered at Adorama with a $50 rebate. The
 offer was clear. It is still in effect.
 http://www.adorama.com/BG496RC2.html?utm_source=dealtimeutm_medium=Sho
 pping%20Siteutm_campaign=Otherutm_term=Other
 
[...]
 Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me? If
 me, what recourse do I have?

I don't think you have a leg to stand on, but I think they're being stupid
in not making it clear up front that you have to buy the tripod to get the
rebate. As it stands theyre probably annoying a few potential buyers, which
can never be good business.

B


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Cotty]

On 21/12/10, Eric Weir, discombobulated, unleashed:


You may remember my asking for feedback on a Manfrotto Compact Ball Head
496 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate a while back. At the time I inquired
the head was being offered at Adorama with a $50 rebate. The offer was
clear. It is still in effect.

http://www.adorama.com/BG496RC2.html?
utm_source=dealtimeutm_medium=Shopping
%20Siteutm_campaign=Otherutm_term=Other

Eric, I find lots of US sales pages confusing in the way they are laid
out, they seem designed to bamboozle the purchaser with over-information.

Step 1, I see the item for sale with an offer of 50 bucks back, no
mention of a tripod.

Step 2 I click on the 'View/Download Rebate' link, I see another small
window open confirming a 50 dollar rebate with purchase of the ballhead
only, no mention of a tripod at all.

Step 3 I click on the 'Download Rebate' link and see a whole different
ballgame with tripod purchase required.


Personally there's no way I would have purchased the ballhead without
looking through all the links first. That said, the way the rebate is
presented, only at step 3, is confusing in the least, and downright bad
business practice and deceit at most. In the UK, we have a national
Trading Standards office, and if this was a British company I would be
on the phone to them - but only after giving Adorama the chance to
honour their offer first. I would also download the relevant web pages
and links to hard drive because they may well see how confusing it is
and change things on a whim.

On the other hand, is it worth the aggravation for $50? For me, I would
simply not shop with any company displaying such bad business practices.

YMMV.


--


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Boris Liberman]

On 12/22/2010 10:41 AM, Cotty wrote:

On the other hand, is it worth the aggravation for $50? For me, I would
simply not shop with any company displaying such bad business practices.


Especially given that in this specific business, the competition is not 
lacking and you can always find a dealer that will deal properly.


Boris

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Joseph McAllister]

What you are seeing is vestigial New York Photo/Video mail-order attitudes. 
Thirty five years ago, you had to be very careful ordering from NY Photo 
stores, even BH. Since then, following BH's lead in a change in practices, 
most have straightened out about 95%. I have frightening memories of 
conversations with  the phone sales reps from Beach, Adorama, and Abes of 
Maine, who, if you had a disagreement with the difference between what they 
were offering and what was standard in the industry, would reiterate their 
company line, then hang up on you. It sometimes took a few days and several 
salesperson hours before you would go through with the sale, after they  
allowed as to how you really had seen through their bullshit and let common 
sense complete the sale.

One of their ploys was to pull items out of a factory packed kit camera. When 
you complained that it was missing, they told you it wasn't part of what they 
sold you,. The price to buy it separately ended up costing you more than the 
same complete kit at any of the other stores.

Phone shopping was a joy in the 60s and 70s!


 On Dec 21, 2010, at 21:51 , Eric Weir wrote:

 On Dec 21, 2010, at 11:18 PM, Doug Franklin wrote:
 
 FWIW, IMO, etc., if they made the rebate form available to you before you 
 completed the transaction, it's on you.  Otherwise, it's on them.
 
 Thanks, Doug. You didn't have to make the purchase to get a copy of the 
 rebate form. If you just click on the view/download rebate link, however, 
 i.e., don't yet download the form, the offer as originally described is 
 repeated, i.e., the tripod is not mentioned.
 
 All that aside, it doesn't strike me as good business practice. But not being 
 a businessman, what the hell do I know? Might be damn good business practice. 

Joseph McAllister
Lots of gear, not much time

http://gallery.me.com/jomac


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Derby Chang]

On 22/12/2010 2:55 PM, Eric Weir wrote:

You may remember my asking for feedback on a Manfrotto Compact Ball Head 496 
with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate a while back. At the time I inquired the head was 
being offered at Adorama with a $50 rebate. The offer was clear. It is still in 
effect.
http://www.adorama.com/BG496RC2.html?utm_source=dealtimeutm_medium=Shopping%20Siteutm_campaign=Otherutm_term=Other

If you click on the view/download rebate on that page, the offer is backed up 
with this:

Rebate Information
Manfrotto Compact Ball Head 496 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate, Maximum Load: 
13.2 lbs/ 6 kg
$50.00 Mfr Rebate from Dec 1, 2010 - Jan 15, 2011

After placing my order and downloading the rebate form, however, I found that the rebate 
applied only if you also purchased a tripod. I have have had an email exchange with 
customer service. Their position is unrelenting: The offer is what is described on the 
rebate form, and I should have checked it before making my purchase. Mine is that they 
are obliged to honor the offer as described on the website made in the original 
description and confirmed at the view rebate link.

The full price for this head is reasonable. I might have eventually ended up 
purchasing it at the full price down the road, but I was certainly not going to 
pass it up at what I understood the offer to be. The issue is more one of 
principle. Even if I'm right, however, there's a point beyond which pursuing it 
is not worth the effort. I may have passed it already.

Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me? If me, 
what recourse do I have?

Thanks,



Hi Eric

I agree, that sort of thing annoys me no end - bury the important 
details in the fine print (or the third clicks). But that said, the 
rebate is coming from Manfrotto. I feel it isn't reasonable for Adorama 
to put up the complete details on the little pop-up. Personally, I would 
think, as you do, that the original price is fair, and the $50 is a 
bonus. Anyway, this is actually how rebates work; they figure only a 
certain percentage will claim.


My experiences with Adorama have been consistently positive (second only 
to KEH). Popped a used Leitz 90mm Elmarit in my cart the other night. 
Not that I need another 90, but I don't have a chrome version. Going 
price was a reasonable $499. This morning, I got an email saying there 
was a mistake in the listing, and the version was actually the earlier 
E39 not E46. Offered it to me for 300 bucks. I actually quite like the 
look of the vulcanite retro-ness, so I snapped it up.


D

--

der...@iinet.net.au
http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[P. J. Alling]

It could be intentional deception or it could simply be some web 
developers sloppiness, I'd be unhappy either way.


On 12/22/2010 3:41 AM, Cotty wrote:

On 21/12/10, Eric Weir, discombobulated, unleashed:


You may remember my asking for feedback on a Manfrotto Compact Ball Head
496 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate a while back. At the time I inquired
the head was being offered at Adorama with a $50 rebate. The offer was
clear. It is still in effect.

http://www.adorama.com/BG496RC2.html?
utm_source=dealtimeutm_medium=Shopping
%20Siteutm_campaign=Otherutm_term=Other

Eric, I find lots of US sales pages confusing in the way they are laid
out, they seem designed to bamboozle the purchaser with over-information.

Step 1, I see the item for sale with an offer of 50 bucks back, no
mention of a tripod.

Step 2 I click on the 'View/Download Rebate' link, I see another small
window open confirming a 50 dollar rebate with purchase of the ballhead
only, no mention of a tripod at all.

Step 3 I click on the 'Download Rebate' link and see a whole different
ballgame with tripod purchase required.


Personally there's no way I would have purchased the ballhead without
looking through all the links first. That said, the way the rebate is
presented, only at step 3, is confusing in the least, and downright bad
business practice and deceit at most. In the UK, we have a national
Trading Standards office, and if this was a British company I would be
on the phone to them - but only after giving Adorama the chance to
honour their offer first. I would also download the relevant web pages
and links to hard drive because they may well see how confusing it is
and change things on a whim.

On the other hand, is it worth the aggravation for $50? For me, I would
simply not shop with any company displaying such bad business practices.

YMMV.


--


Cheers,
   Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_






--
Where's the Kaboom?  There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom!

--Marvin the Martian.


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 12:57 AM, Boris Liberman wrote:

 Having had my share of 'misunderstandings' with local merchants and other 
 providers I tend to first download all there is to download and read all 
 there is to read. Admit, Eric, that if you had done that, you wouldn't have 
 proceeded with the transaction.
 
 Otherwise - well, I am no lawyer, but you can always shout angrily at them 
 and hope for positive outcome.

Thanks, Boris. You're absolutely right. I let my generally benign view of 
retailers get the best of me. And as I said, I might eventually have proceeded 
with the transaction, just not at that time, under that offer. 

Perhaps the lesson I should take from this is retailers, and business in 
general, are just not to be trusted: Read the fine print. Carefully. And they 
say the market doesn't need to be regulated? That we should just trust them? 

As for shouting angrily, with the exception of following up on the suggestion 
that I send an email to the customer advocate at Adorama, I think I've gotten 
about what I can expect from it.  

I have to say my dealings with individuals on eBay have been more principled 
than this.

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[paul stenquist]

I think you're right. The page should have said when purchased with tripod. 
You have little recourse other than to keep pointing that out. Talking to a 
higher level person might help. Any other course of action isn't worth your 
time.

Paul
On Dec 21, 2010, at 10:55 PM, Eric Weir wrote:

 
 You may remember my asking for feedback on a Manfrotto Compact Ball Head 496 
 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate a while back. At the time I inquired the head 
 was being offered at Adorama with a $50 rebate. The offer was clear. It is 
 still in effect. 
 http://www.adorama.com/BG496RC2.html?utm_source=dealtimeutm_medium=Shopping%20Siteutm_campaign=Otherutm_term=Other
 
 If you click on the view/download rebate on that page, the offer is backed 
 up with this:
 
 Rebate Information
 Manfrotto Compact Ball Head 496 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate, Maximum Load: 
 13.2 lbs/ 6 kg
 $50.00 Mfr Rebate from Dec 1, 2010 - Jan 15, 2011
 
 After placing my order and downloading the rebate form, however, I found that 
 the rebate applied only if you also purchased a tripod. I have have had an 
 email exchange with customer service. Their position is unrelenting: The 
 offer is what is described on the rebate form, and I should have checked it 
 before making my purchase. Mine is that they are obliged to honor the offer 
 as described on the website made in the original description and confirmed at 
 the view rebate link.
 
 The full price for this head is reasonable. I might have eventually ended up 
 purchasing it at the full price down the road, but I was certainly not going 
 to pass it up at what I understood the offer to be. The issue is more one of 
 principle. Even if I'm right, however, there's a point beyond which pursuing 
 it is not worth the effort. I may have passed it already.
 
 Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me? If me, 
 what recourse do I have?
 
 Thanks,
 --
 Eric Weir
 Decatur, GA  USA
 eew...@bellsouth.net
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
 the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Doug Franklin]

On 2010-12-22 1:11, Eric Weir wrote:


Perhaps the lesson I should take from this is retailers, and
business in general, are just not to be trusted: Read the
fine print. Carefully. [...] That we should just trust them?


My views might be a bit jaundiced, but trust isn't part of the equation 
when you're entering into any transaction or contract.  Everything has 
to be spelled out or there'll be trouble later.  It doesn't matter what 
anyone said; what's written down is what counts.


The other side of that coin is what hit you: one party can do things 
that obscure the details to the detriment of the other party, 
intentionally or not.  If the transaction is big enough to make it 
economically worthwhile, and the behavior egregious enough, that can be 
actionable in court.  Of course, you've then got to convince the judge 
or jury.



As for shouting angrily, with the exception of following up on the
suggestion that I send an email to the customer advocate at Adorama,
I think I've gotten about what I can expect from it.


I don't shout.  But at the conclusion of the deal, I snail mail a letter 
to the manager (or whatever) to let them know I won't be back and why. 
It may not matter to them, but if I just leave, they can't know that at 
least one of their customers considers that they have a problem.



I have to say my dealings with individuals on eBay have been more
principled than this.


Keep trying; ebay can surely bite you, too.  In less than fifty 
transactions I've been hosed three times (broken or grossly 
misrepresented items) and ebay was no help.  Speaking of which, anyone 
interested in a motor drive for a Spottie?  At least, I think that's 
what it is.  It was represented as an LX motor drive.


--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Cotty wrote:

 On the other hand, is it worth the aggravation for $50? For me, I would
 simply not shop with any company displaying such bad business practices.

Thanks, Cotty for the very clear summation and comment. As Bob said, I don't 
have a leg to stand on. I wonder if that's really how Adorama want's to be 
thought of. 

I think I've got a ball head, at a good price, from Adorama. It's the last 
thing I'll have from them -- unless it comes as a gift.

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 3:56 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote:

 What you are seeing is vestigial New York Photo/Video mail-order attitudes. 
 Thirty five years ago, you had to be very careful ordering from NY Photo 
 stores, even BH. Since then, following BH's lead in a change in practices, 
 most have straightened out about 95%. I have frightening memories of 
 conversations with  the phone sales reps from Beach, Adorama, and Abes of 
 Maine, who, if you had a disagreement with the difference between what they 
 were offering and what was standard in the industry, would reiterate their 
 company line, then hang up on you. It sometimes took a few days and several 
 salesperson hours before you would go through with the sale, after they  
 allowed as to how you really had seen through their bullshit and let common 
 sense complete the sale.
 
 One of their ploys was to pull items out of a factory packed kit camera. When 
 you complained that it was missing, they told you it wasn't part of what they 
 sold you,. The price to buy it separately ended up costing you more than the 
 same complete kit at any of the other stores.
 
 Phone shopping was a joy in the 60s and 70s!

Thanks, Joseph. My standard has been LL Bean. And since joining PDML I must say 
I've had very good experiences with sellers on eBay, for which I imagine eBay 
itself deserves some credit. What seems to be Adorama's practice, and not an 
error, as I assumed when I first wrote to customer service, has come as a bit 
of a shock. Since I'm mainly a used equipment buyer, sure glad KEH isn't that 
way.

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 4:16 AM, P. J. Alling wrote:

 it could simply be some web developers sloppiness

I assumed that might be the case at first -- that and the possibility that the 
customer service agent may not have understood that that might be the case -- 
but their persistence in their legalistic characterization of the offer, and 
the fact that it stands unclarified, leads me to conclude otherwise 

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Cotty wrote:

 On the other hand, is it worth the aggravation for $50? For me, I would
 simply not shop with any company displaying such bad business practices.

Thanks, Cotty for the very clear summation and comment. As Bob said, I don't 
have a leg to stand on. I wonder if that's really how Adorama want's to be 
thought of. 

I think I've got a ball head, at a good price, from Adorama. It's the last 
thing I'll have from them -- unless it comes as a gift.

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 6:53 AM, paul stenquist wrote:

 I think you're right. The page should have said when purchased with tripod. 
 You have little recourse other than to keep pointing that out. Talking to a 
 higher level person might help. Any other course of action isn't worth your 
 time.

Thanks, Paul. I think I got a decent head at a decent price. I can certainly 
live with that. That it *appears* to be deception -- I leave open the 
possibility that the customer service rep is not representing the company very 
well -- leaves a bad taste in my mouth, though.
 
--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 4:11 AM, Derby Chang wrote:

 My experiences with Adorama have been consistently positive (second only to 
 KEH). Popped a used Leitz 90mm Elmarit in my cart the other night. Not that I 
 need another 90, but I don't have a chrome version. Going price was a 
 reasonable $499. This morning, I got an email saying there was a mistake in 
 the listing, and the version was actually the earlier E39 not E46. Offered it 
 to me for 300 bucks. I actually quite like the look of the vulcanite 
 retro-ness, so I snapped it up.

Thanks, Derby. Glad to hear that my experience *may not* be indicative of their 
practice after all. What I spend is small change, but this experience has left 
a bad taste in my mouth, and I'll be looking for my deals elsewhere, at least 
for a while.

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Doug Franklin]

I should note for the record that I've had many successful transactions 
with Adorama and have no reason to be upset with them over any of them.


--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Boris Liberman]

On 12/22/2010 8:11 AM, Eric Weir wrote:

Thanks, Boris. You're absolutely right. I let my generally benign
view of retailers get the best of me. And as I said, I might
eventually have proceeded with the transaction, just not at that
time, under that offer.


It happens to me all too often as well, though somewhat less often as I 
grow up.



Perhaps the lesson I should take from this is retailers, and business
in general, are just not to be trusted: Read the fine print.
Carefully. And they say the market doesn't need to be regulated?
That we should just trust them?


Regulated market (believe me, I lived there for 20 years) does not 
immediately implies total honesty, you know...



As for shouting angrily, with the exception of following up on the
suggestion that I send an email to the customer advocate at Adorama,
I think I've gotten about what I can expect from it.


Shouting angrily would be local practice.


I have to say my dealings with individuals on eBay have been more
principled than this.


IMO eBay is extremely dangerous, so don't let several positive 
transactions fool you into false sense of security.


Boris

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 9:11 AM, Doug Franklin wrote:

 As for shouting angrily, with the exception of following up on the
 suggestion that I send an email to the customer advocate at Adorama,
 I think I've gotten about what I can expect from it.
 
 I don't shout.  But at the conclusion of the deal, I snail mail a letter to 
 the manager (or whatever) to let them know I won't be back and why. It may 
 not matter to them, but if I just leave, they can't know that at least one of 
 their customers considers that they have a problem.
 
 I have to say my dealings with individuals on eBay have been more
 principled than this.
 
 Keep trying; ebay can surely bite you, too.  In less than fifty transactions 
 I've been hosed three times (broken or grossly misrepresented items) and ebay 
 was no help.  Speaking of which, anyone interested in a motor drive for a 
 Spottie?  At least, I think that's what it is.  It was represented as an LX 
 motor drive.

Thanks for the heads up, on both counts, Doug. 

Recently I had a seller on eBay offer to take back an item that disappointed me 
where the reason for the disappointment was my ignorance about the product. I 
appreciated his offer but took responsibility for my oversight. Besides, I love 
holding the item in my hand even though it doesn't work. 

The item was a Weston Master II light meter. I've decided to put down the bucks 
for an up-to-date Sekonic L398A. Not as beautiful as the Weston but it's still 
being manufactured. 

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Boris Liberman wrote:

 Perhaps the lesson I should take from this is retailers, and business
 in general, are just not to be trusted: Read the fine print.
 Carefully. And they say the market doesn't need to be regulated?
 That we should just trust them?
 
 Regulated market (believe me, I lived there for 20 years) does not 
 immediately implies total honesty, you know...

Oh, for sure. But -- at least in theory; and in some places more in practice 
than others -- there is recourse. 

 As for shouting angrily, with the exception of following up on the
 suggestion that I send an email to the customer advocate at Adorama,
 I think I've gotten about what I can expect from it.
 
 Shouting angrily would be local practice.

I'm a Midwesterner, living in the South with a deep appreciation for the 
South's we go along to get along philosophy, who spent a year living and 
working in Manhattan in the mid 90's. I loved the City, but I was never able to 
convince my colleagues that there was another way to deal with conflict, that 
a big stick wasn't always necessarily the best way. 

 I have to say my dealings with individuals on eBay have been more
 principled than this.
 
 IMO eBay is extremely dangerous, so don't let several positive transactions 
 fool you into false sense of security.

I've been cautioned on that point already, but thanks for seconding it.

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Ann Sanfedele]

Eric,
I live about a 25 minute walk from Adorama...  I usually shop at BH but 
Adorama had  the V500 Nick was raving about at the
best price  - I called and one of the sales guys got one from the 
warehouse for me in one day and put it aside in the store for me..
When I returned the RS1000 (however some of the other Pentax point andd 
shoots may or may not be, don't buy this one!)
the young lady who was taking it back claimed there was a scratch on the 
LCD screen - I had had the camera for all of 2 hours.
I couldnt see it and she though spec of dirt so was rubbing it with a 
cleaning cloth (which, infact, could have made the scratch)
I pitched a bit of a bitch .   I got my money back fairly easily.

Initially , when I was asked why I was returning it  I simply said 
because it's a piece of crap  
Bottom line, the experience, overall, in the store was ultimately fine. 
Maybe they are kinder to L O Ls


ann

Eric Weir wrote:


On Dec 22, 2010, at 3:56 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote:

 


What you are seeing is vestigial New York Photo/Video mail-order attitudes. Thirty five 
years ago, you had to be very careful ordering from NY Photo stores, even BH. 
Since then, following BH's lead in a change in practices, most have straightened 
out about 95%. I have frightening memories of conversations with  the phone sales reps 
from Beach, Adorama, and Abes of Maine, who, if you had a disagreement with the 
difference between what they were offering and what was standard in the industry, would 
reiterate their company line, then hang up on you. It sometimes took a few days and 
several salesperson hours before you would go through with the sale, after they  
allowed as to how you really had seen through their bullshit and let common sense 
complete the sale.

One of their ploys was to pull items out of a factory packed kit camera. When 
you complained that it was missing, they told you it wasn't part of what they 
sold you,. The price to buy it separately ended up costing you more than the 
same complete kit at any of the other stores.

Phone shopping was a joy in the 60s and 70s!
   



Thanks, Joseph. My standard has been LL Bean. And since joining PDML I must say 
I've had very good experiences with sellers on eBay, for which I imagine eBay 
itself deserves some credit. What seems to be Adorama's practice, and not an 
error, as I assumed when I first wrote to customer service, has come as a bit 
of a shock. Since I'm mainly a used equipment buyer, sure glad KEH isn't that 
way.

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





 






--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Stan Halpin]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 10:20 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:

 Eric,
 I live about a 25 minute walk from Adorama...  I usually shop at BH but 
 Adorama had  the V500 Nick was raving about at the
 best price  - I called and one of the sales guys got one from the warehouse 
 for me in one day and put it aside in the store for me..
 When I returned the RS1000 (however some of the other Pentax point andd 
 shoots may or may not be, don't buy this one!)
 the young lady who was taking it back claimed there was a scratch on the LCD 
 screen - I had had the camera for all of 2 hours.
 I couldnt see it and she though spec of dirt so was rubbing it with a 
 cleaning cloth (which, infact, could have made the scratch)
 I pitched a bit of a bitch .   I got my money back fairly easily.
 Initially , when I was asked why I was returning it  I simply said because 
 it's a piece of crap  Bottom line, the experience, overall, in the store was 
 ultimately fine. Maybe they are kinder to L O Ls
 
 ann
 

'Tis a good thing they don't know the real Ann! They would have known that you 
only bought the camera to take shots of one scrabble tournament, fully 
intending to return it all along. And then it got scratched during the 
horseplay and drunken revelry after the tournament, so there was no way you 
would keep it, no matter how much you had come to love the intuitive ergonomics 
of  this fine image processor . . .

stan


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Jack Davis]

Feisty, L O Ls ;)

Jack, L O Mn

--- On Wed, 12/22/10, Ann Sanfedele ann...@nyc.rr.com wrote:

 From: Ann Sanfedele ann...@nyc.rr.com
 Subject: Re: Adorama
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 7:20 AM
 Eric,
 I live about a 25 minute walk from Adorama...  I
 usually shop at BH but 
 Adorama had  the V500 Nick was raving about at the
 best price  - I called and one of the sales guys got
 one from the 
 warehouse for me in one day and put it aside in the store
 for me..
  When I returned the RS1000 (however some of the other
 Pentax point andd 
 shoots may or may not be, don't buy this one!)
 the young lady who was taking it back claimed there was a
 scratch on the 
 LCD screen - I had had the camera for all of 2 hours.
 I couldnt see it and she though spec of dirt so was rubbing
 it with a 
 cleaning cloth (which, infact, could have made the
 scratch)
 I pitched a bit of a bitch .   I got my
 money back fairly easily.    
 
 Initially , when I was asked why I was returning it  I
 simply said 
 because it's a piece of crap  
 Bottom line, the experience, overall, in the store was
 ultimately fine. 
  Maybe they are kinder to L O Ls
 
 ann
 
 Eric Weir wrote:
 
 On Dec 22, 2010, at 3:56 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote:
 
   
 
 What you are seeing is vestigial New York
 Photo/Video mail-order attitudes. Thirty five years ago, you
 had to be very careful ordering from NY Photo stores, even
 BH. Since then, following BH's lead in a change in
 practices, most have straightened out about 95%. I have
 frightening memories of conversations with  the phone
 sales reps from Beach, Adorama, and Abes of Maine, who, if
 you had a disagreement with the difference between what they
 were offering and what was standard in the industry, would
 reiterate their company line, then hang up on you. It
 sometimes took a few days and several salesperson hours
 before you would go through with the sale, after they 
 allowed as to how you really had seen through their bullshit
 and let common sense complete the sale.
 
 One of their ploys was to pull items out of a
 factory packed kit camera. When you complained that it was
 missing, they told you it wasn't part of what they sold
 you,. The price to buy it separately ended up costing you
 more than the same complete kit at any of the other stores.
 
 Phone shopping was a joy in the 60s and 70s!
     
 
 
 Thanks, Joseph. My standard has been LL Bean. And since
 joining PDML I must say I've had very good experiences with
 sellers on eBay, for which I imagine eBay itself deserves
 some credit. What seems to be Adorama's practice, and not an
 error, as I assumed when I first wrote to customer service,
 has come as a bit of a shock. Since I'm mainly a used
 equipment buyer, sure glad KEH isn't that way.
 
 --
 Eric Weir
 Decatur, GA  USA
 eew...@bellsouth.net
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link
 directly above and follow the directions.
 


  

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Paul Stenquist]

I've shopped at BH since they were in a loft on 17th Street in the 1970s. 
Never had any problems. To the best of my knowledge, they've always had a very 
good reputation. Ditto 47th Street Photo in the '80s. The only really bad 
camera stores were the mail order joints with Brooklyn addresses that didn't 
even have a real store, and the tourist-trap camera stores in midtown.
Paul
On Dec 22, 2010, at 11:13 AM, Jack Davis wrote:

 Feisty, L O Ls ;)
 
 Jack, L O Mn
 
 --- On Wed, 12/22/10, Ann Sanfedele ann...@nyc.rr.com wrote:
 
 From: Ann Sanfedele ann...@nyc.rr.com
 Subject: Re: Adorama
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 7:20 AM
 Eric,
 I live about a 25 minute walk from Adorama...  I
 usually shop at BH but 
 Adorama had  the V500 Nick was raving about at the
 best price  - I called and one of the sales guys got
 one from the 
 warehouse for me in one day and put it aside in the store
 for me..
 When I returned the RS1000 (however some of the other
 Pentax point andd 
 shoots may or may not be, don't buy this one!)
 the young lady who was taking it back claimed there was a
 scratch on the 
 LCD screen - I had had the camera for all of 2 hours.
 I couldnt see it and she though spec of dirt so was rubbing
 it with a 
 cleaning cloth (which, infact, could have made the
 scratch)
 I pitched a bit of a bitch .   I got my
 money back fairly easily.
 
 Initially , when I was asked why I was returning it  I
 simply said 
 because it's a piece of crap  
 Bottom line, the experience, overall, in the store was
 ultimately fine. 
 Maybe they are kinder to L O Ls
 
 ann
 
 Eric Weir wrote:
 
 On Dec 22, 2010, at 3:56 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote:
 
   
 
 What you are seeing is vestigial New York
 Photo/Video mail-order attitudes. Thirty five years ago, you
 had to be very careful ordering from NY Photo stores, even
 BH. Since then, following BH's lead in a change in
 practices, most have straightened out about 95%. I have
 frightening memories of conversations with  the phone
 sales reps from Beach, Adorama, and Abes of Maine, who, if
 you had a disagreement with the difference between what they
 were offering and what was standard in the industry, would
 reiterate their company line, then hang up on you. It
 sometimes took a few days and several salesperson hours
 before you would go through with the sale, after they 
 allowed as to how you really had seen through their bullshit
 and let common sense complete the sale.
 
 One of their ploys was to pull items out of a
 factory packed kit camera. When you complained that it was
 missing, they told you it wasn't part of what they sold
 you,. The price to buy it separately ended up costing you
 more than the same complete kit at any of the other stores.
 
 Phone shopping was a joy in the 60s and 70s!
 
 
 
 Thanks, Joseph. My standard has been LL Bean. And since
 joining PDML I must say I've had very good experiences with
 sellers on eBay, for which I imagine eBay itself deserves
 some credit. What seems to be Adorama's practice, and not an
 error, as I assumed when I first wrote to customer service,
 has come as a bit of a shock. Since I'm mainly a used
 equipment buyer, sure glad KEH isn't that way.
 
 --
 Eric Weir
 Decatur, GA  USA
 eew...@bellsouth.net
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link
 directly above and follow the directions.
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
 the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama Update

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 7:49 AM, Eric Weir wrote:

 I think I got a decent head at a decent price. I can certainly live with 
 that. That it *appears* to be deception -- I leave open the possibility that 
 the customer service rep is not representing the company very well -- leaves 
 a bad taste in my mouth, though.

After my last post here I received an email from a company representative, 
Helen Oster, who had been suggested to me in one of the early responses. After 
looking into the issue she reported that there *was* a bug in the way rebates 
were being written up -- perhaps they thought they could turn it over to a 
machine? -- and offered me a $50 store credit by way of apology. 

That was perfectly agreeable to me, as the price of the head without the rebate 
was reasonable and within my budget, and what I anticipated to pay before 
discovering their buggy offer.   

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 10:20 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:

 Bottom line, the experience, overall, in the store was ultimately fine.

Thanks, Ann. As you will see in my update of the issue, it's turned out that 
way in this case, too -- assuming they find a way to help their customer 
service reps respond to customer concerns more constructively than this one did 
to mine. 

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: Adorama Update

[Bob W]

 After my last post here I received an email from a company
 representative, Helen Oster, who had been suggested to me in one of the
 early responses. After looking into the issue she reported that there
 *was* a bug in the way rebates were being written up -- perhaps they
 thought they could turn it over to a machine? -- and offered me a $50
 store credit by way of apology.
 
 That was perfectly agreeable to me, as the price of the head without
 the rebate was reasonable and within my budget, and what I anticipated
 to pay before discovering their buggy offer.

that's a good result and well handled by the store, eventually.

B


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama Update

[Steven Desjardins]

Common sense, or at least business sense, prevails.  Good fight, do
the victory dance.

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote:

 On Dec 22, 2010, at 7:49 AM, Eric Weir wrote:

 I think I got a decent head at a decent price. I can certainly live with 
 that. That it *appears* to be deception -- I leave open the possibility that 
 the customer service rep is not representing the company very well -- leaves 
 a bad taste in my mouth, though.

 After my last post here I received an email from a company representative, 
 Helen Oster, who had been suggested to me in one of the early responses. 
 After looking into the issue she reported that there *was* a bug in the way 
 rebates were being written up -- perhaps they thought they could turn it over 
 to a machine? -- and offered me a $50 store credit by way of apology.

 That was perfectly agreeable to me, as the price of the head without the 
 rebate was reasonable and within my budget, and what I anticipated to pay 
 before discovering their buggy offer.

 --
 Eric Weir
 Decatur, GA  USA
 eew...@bellsouth.net





 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
 the directions.




-- 
Steve Desjardins

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[steve harley]

On 2010-12-22 01:28 , Bob W wrote:

I don't think you have a leg to stand on, but I think they're being stupid
in not making it clear up front that you have to buy the tripod to get the
rebate. As it stands theyre probably annoying a few potential buyers, which
can never be good business.


my thoughts exactly; what you are seeing is a fairly common usability 
problem when there are special terms to a deal -- these terms are 
usually not laid out in full until you get to the fine print, so you 
should always get to the fine print (i often review terms of service, 
etc. on sales websites to to make sure i understand return policies); 
note there is also a claim of free shipping, but there is fine print 
for that too, though it is only one click away; i think there should be 
something like (see rebate form for complete terms) on the first page, 
and probably also a direct link to the rebate form there


my general position is that rebates suck; i endeavor to ignore the small 
rebates and only consider large rebate deals with extreme care


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama Update

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 1:58 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

 Common sense

It works. Stick to the facts. Allow for misunderstanding, on your part as well 
as the other party's. Mostly it will work out. 

Unfortunately, many of our politicians seem to work on the opposite principle.

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 22, 2010, at 2:12 PM, steve harley wrote:

 my general position is that rebates suck; i endeavor to ignore the small 
 rebates and only consider large rebate deals with extreme care

Yep. I don't think you can even get a *used* Manfrotto 496 on eBay for $29. And 
given what I learned in the resolution they may not even have known that they 
had in effect made such an offer. 

I've been careless about fine print in the past. With the admonitions here I 
will not be in the future. 

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[steve harley]

On 2010-12-22 12:18 , Eric Weir wrote:

Yep. I don't think you can even get a *used* Manfrotto 496 on eBay for $29.


i have, however, seen some pretty good deals on tripod+head on my local 
(Denver) craigslist; haven't needed a new tripod badly enough to go for 
it, on the assumption i'll eventually score one in a thrift store (i 
live one block from a Goodwill, and make a little bit of money cherry 
picking electronics and such)


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Bob Sullivan]

Eric,
The deal didn't pass the smell test the first time around.
Get over it.  Nobody's gonna give you a free ride.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 6:27 AM, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote:

 On Dec 22, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Cotty wrote:

 On the other hand, is it worth the aggravation for $50? For me, I would
 simply not shop with any company displaying such bad business practices.

 Thanks, Cotty for the very clear summation and comment. As Bob said, I don't 
 have a leg to stand on. I wonder if that's really how Adorama want's to be 
 thought of.

 I think I've got a ball head, at a good price, from Adorama. It's the last 
 thing I'll have from them -- unless it comes as a gift.

 --
 Eric Weir
 Decatur, GA  USA
 eew...@bellsouth.net





 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
 the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Ann Sanfedele]

Stan Halpin wrote:


On Dec 22, 2010, at 10:20 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:

 


Eric,
I live about a 25 minute walk from Adorama...  I usually shop at BH but 
Adorama had  the V500 Nick was raving about at the
best price  - I called and one of the sales guys got one from the warehouse for 
me in one day and put it aside in the store for me..
When I returned the RS1000 (however some of the other Pentax point andd shoots 
may or may not be, don't buy this one!)
the young lady who was taking it back claimed there was a scratch on the LCD 
screen - I had had the camera for all of 2 hours.
I couldnt see it and she though spec of dirt so was rubbing it with a cleaning 
cloth (which, infact, could have made the scratch)
I pitched a bit of a bitch .   I got my money back fairly easily.
Initially , when I was asked why I was returning it  I simply said because it's a piece of crap  Bottom line, the experience, overall, in the store was ultimately fine. Maybe they are kinder to L O Ls


ann

   



'Tis a good thing they don't know the real Ann! They would have known that you 
only bought the camera to take shots of one scrabble tournament, fully 
intending to return it all along. And then it got scratched during the 
horseplay and drunken revelry after the tournament, so there was no way you 
would keep it, no matter how much you had come to love the intuitive ergonomics 
of  this fine image processor . . .

stan


 


Ack! I'm busted! :-)

ann



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Ann Sanfedele]

Eric Weir wrote:


On Dec 22, 2010, at 10:20 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:

 


Bottom line, the experience, overall, in the store was ultimately fine.
   



Thanks, Ann. As you will see in my update of the issue, it's turned out that way in this case, too -- assuming they find a way to help their customer service reps respond to customer concerns more constructively than this one did to mine. 


--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net

 



Yeah - I saw your later response.   - Thats great!

As Paul, I'm very fond of BH and was a steady customer of 47th st 
photo back in the 70's -
but given the same price , Adorama wins if I know just what I want as I 
can walk there easily.


ann




--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Ken Waller]

Saw something awhile back from B+H while I was shopping for a new Gitzo 
tripod.


Fuggeta bout it and move on.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: Bob W p...@web-options.com

Subject: RE: Adorama



You may remember my asking for feedback on a Manfrotto Compact Ball
Head 496 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate a while back. At the time I
inquired the head was being offered at Adorama with a $50 rebate. The
offer was clear. It is still in effect.
http://www.adorama.com/BG496RC2.html?utm_source=dealtimeutm_medium=Sho
pping%20Siteutm_campaign=Otherutm_term=Other


[...]

Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me? If
me, what recourse do I have?


I don't think you have a leg to stand on, but I think they're being stupid
in not making it clear up front that you have to buy the tripod to get the
rebate. As it stands theyre probably annoying a few potential buyers, 
which

can never be good business.

B



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Ken Waller]

Should be

ran into the same thing awhile back from B+H while I was shopping for a new 
Gitzo tripod.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com

Subject: Re: Adorama


Saw something awhile back from B+H while I was shopping for a new Gitzo 
tripod.


Fuggeta bout it and move on.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: Bob W p...@web-options.com

Subject: RE: Adorama



You may remember my asking for feedback on a Manfrotto Compact Ball
Head 496 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate a while back. At the time I
inquired the head was being offered at Adorama with a $50 rebate. The
offer was clear. It is still in effect.
http://www.adorama.com/BG496RC2.html?utm_source=dealtimeutm_medium=Sho
pping%20Siteutm_campaign=Otherutm_term=Other


[...]

Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me? If
me, what recourse do I have?


I don't think you have a leg to stand on, but I think they're being 
stupid
in not making it clear up front that you have to buy the tripod to get 
the
rebate. As it stands theyre probably annoying a few potential buyers, 
which

can never be good business.

B



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama Update

[Boris Liberman]

On 12/22/2010 8:38 PM, Eric Weir wrote:

After my last post here I received an email from a company
representative, Helen Oster, who had been suggested to me in one of
the early responses. After looking into the issue she reported that
there *was* a bug in the way rebates were being written up --
perhaps they thought they could turn it over to a machine? -- and
offered me a $50 store credit by way of apology.

That was perfectly agreeable to me, as the price of the head without
the rebate was reasonable and within my budget, and what I
anticipated to pay before discovering their buggy offer.


Excellent. Well done, Eric!

Boris

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[David Parsons]

Send an email to Helen Oster.  She is a customer advocate for Adorama.

hel...@adorama.com
http://twitter.com/HelenOster

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote:

 You may remember my asking for feedback on a Manfrotto Compact Ball Head 496 
 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate a while back. At the time I inquired the head 
 was being offered at Adorama with a $50 rebate. The offer was clear. It is 
 still in effect.
 http://www.adorama.com/BG496RC2.html?utm_source=dealtimeutm_medium=Shopping%20Siteutm_campaign=Otherutm_term=Other

 If you click on the view/download rebate on that page, the offer is backed 
 up with this:

 Rebate Information
 Manfrotto Compact Ball Head 496 with RC2 Rapid Connect Plate, Maximum Load: 
 13.2 lbs/ 6 kg
 $50.00 Mfr Rebate from Dec 1, 2010 - Jan 15, 2011

 After placing my order and downloading the rebate form, however, I found that 
 the rebate applied only if you also purchased a tripod. I have have had an 
 email exchange with customer service. Their position is unrelenting: The 
 offer is what is described on the rebate form, and I should have checked it 
 before making my purchase. Mine is that they are obliged to honor the offer 
 as described on the website made in the original description and confirmed at 
 the view rebate link.

 The full price for this head is reasonable. I might have eventually ended up 
 purchasing it at the full price down the road, but I was certainly not going 
 to pass it up at what I understood the offer to be. The issue is more one of 
 principle. Even if I'm right, however, there's a point beyond which pursuing 
 it is not worth the effort. I may have passed it already.

 Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me? If me, 
 what recourse do I have?

 Thanks,
 --
 Eric Weir
 Decatur, GA  USA
 eew...@bellsouth.net





 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
 the directions.




-- 
David Parsons Photography
http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com

Aloha Photographer Photoblog
http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Doug Franklin]

On 2010-12-21 22:55, Eric Weir wrote:


Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me? If me, 
what recourse do I have?


FWIW, IMO, etc., if they made the rebate form available to you before 
you completed the transaction, it's on you.  Otherwise, it's on them.


--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Bran Everseeking]

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 22:55:41 -0500
Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote:

 Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me?
 If me, what recourse do I have?

looks like a bait and switch kinda offer.  I think you are right on
this one.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 21, 2010, at 11:06 PM, David Parsons wrote:

 Send an email to Helen Oster.  She is a customer advocate for Adorama.

Thanks, David. I'm inclined not to invest much more in this, but that would be 
an easy step to take.

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 21, 2010, at 11:18 PM, Doug Franklin wrote:

 FWIW, IMO, etc., if they made the rebate form available to you before you 
 completed the transaction, it's on you.  Otherwise, it's on them.

Thanks, Doug. You didn't have to make the purchase to get a copy of the rebate 
form. If you just click on the view/download rebate link, however, i.e., 
don't yet download the form, the offer as originally described is repeated, 
i.e., the tripod is not mentioned.

All that aside, it doesn't strike me as good business practice. But not being a 
businessman, what the hell do I know? Might be damn good business practice. 

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Eric Weir]

On Dec 21, 2010, at 11:56 PM, Bran Everseeking wrote:

 On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 22:55:41 -0500
 Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote:
 
 Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me?
 If me, what recourse do I have?
 
 looks like a bait and switch kinda offer.  I think you are right on
 this one.

Thanks, Bran. One possibility I considered up front was that that rebate form 
got linked to this offer by mistake. With the customer service rep's 
persistence in the the offer on the rebate form is the offer interpretation 
your interpretation strikes me as increasingly likely. Especially as that since 
I raised the issue several days ago they have not deigned to clarify the offer. 

I just find it hard to believe that a reputable company like Adorama would 
engage in that sort of thing.
 
--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama

[Boris Liberman]

On 12/22/2010 5:55 AM, Eric Weir wrote:

Still, I'm interested in your thoughts. Who is right, Adorama or me? If me, 
what recourse do I have?


Having had my share of 'misunderstandings' with local merchants and 
other providers I tend to first download all there is to download and 
read all there is to read. Admit, Eric, that if you had done that, you 
wouldn't have proceeded with the transaction.


Otherwise - well, I am no lawyer, but you can always shout angrily at 
them and hope for positive outcome.


Boris

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama down

[Boris Liberman]

I concur. Getting site too busy response from my Firefox... I cannot
verify whether this is DDoS but it surely sucks...

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Derby Chang der...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 Don't understand why anyone would do this. Seems Adorama is being subjected
 to a DDoS. Hope they are back up soon

 D

 --

 der...@iinet.net.au
 http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc

 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
 follow the directions.




-- 
Boris

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama down

[gldnbearz]

Folks at another Pentax site were complaining of this yesterday, too.
Affecting Australia, Africa, and some parts of Asian.  But at the same
time, not all ISPs from Australia were blocked.  I can't remember if I
saw this on dpreview or PF.

- Pat

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 3:02 AM, Derby Chang der...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 Don't understand why anyone would do this. Seems Adorama is being subjected
 to a DDoS. Hope they are back up soon

 D

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama down

[ann sanfedele]

I'm walking distance from Adorama... and, of course, a phone call away...

Were you just wanting to browse or was there something specific?

Ann

Derby Chang wrote:



Don't understand why anyone would do this. Seems Adorama is being 
subjected to a DDoS. Hope they are back up soon


D





--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama down

[Doug Franklin]

gldnbearz wrote:

Folks at another Pentax site were complaining of this yesterday, too.
Affecting Australia, Africa, and some parts of Asian.  But at the same
time, not all ISPs from Australia were blocked.  I can't remember if I
saw this on dpreview or PF.


Well, if it's a DDoS, it's apparently over now.  I got through at full 
speed just a moment ago.  Of course, I'm coming from the southeast US, 
rather than Australia, Africa, or Asia.


--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama down

[gldnbearz]

Found the link. Helen Oster from Adorama comments at PF:
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/78018-cant-ping-adorama-2.html

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Doug Franklin jehosep...@mindspring.com wrote:
 gldnbearz wrote:

 Folks at another Pentax site were complaining of this yesterday, too.
 Affecting Australia, Africa, and some parts of Asian.  But at the same
 time, not all ISPs from Australia were blocked.  I can't remember if I
 saw this on dpreview or PF.

 Well, if it's a DDoS, it's apparently over now.  I got through at full speed
 just a moment ago.  Of course, I'm coming from the southeast US, rather than
 Australia, Africa, or Asia.

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama down

[Derby Chang]

Thanks Ann,

Just wanted to do some used gear browsing. They are still site busy, 
at least for me.


I would love to live walking distance away from Adorama...

D




ann sanfedele wrote:

I'm walking distance from Adorama... and, of course, a phone call away...

Were you just wanting to browse or was there something specific?

Ann

Derby Chang wrote:



Don't understand why anyone would do this. Seems Adorama is being 
subjected to a DDoS. Hope they are back up soon


D







--

der...@iinet.net.au
http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama down

[paul stenquist]

On Nov 1, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Derby Chang wrote:


Thanks Ann,

Just wanted to do some used gear browsing. They are still site  
busy, at least for me.


I would love to live walking distance away from Adorama...

D


And if you were within walking distance of Adorama, you'd also be  
within walking distance of BH. It doesn't get much better than that.

Paul



ann sanfedele wrote:
I'm walking distance from Adorama... and, of course, a phone call  
away...


Were you just wanting to browse or was there something specific?

Ann

Derby Chang wrote:



Don't understand why anyone would do this. Seems Adorama is being  
subjected to a DDoS. Hope they are back up soon


D







--

der...@iinet.net.au
http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above  
and follow the directions.



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama down

[Bob Sullivan]

Site works for me from Chicago, USA...

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Derby Chang der...@iinet.net.au wrote:
 Thanks Ann,

 Just wanted to do some used gear browsing. They are still site busy, at
 least for me.

 I would love to live walking distance away from Adorama...

 D




 ann sanfedele wrote:

 I'm walking distance from Adorama... and, of course, a phone call away...

 Were you just wanting to browse or was there something specific?

 Ann

 Derby Chang wrote:


 Don't understand why anyone would do this. Seems Adorama is being
 subjected to a DDoS. Hope they are back up soon

 D





 --

 der...@iinet.net.au
 http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc

 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
 follow the directions.


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama down

[Brian Walters]

Still busy from down under. Just get a blank page


Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/

On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:09 -0600, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com
wrote:
 Site works for me from Chicago, USA...
 
 On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Derby Chang der...@iinet.net.au wrote:
  Thanks Ann,
 
  Just wanted to do some used gear browsing. They are still site busy, at
  least for me.
 
  I would love to live walking distance away from Adorama...
 
  D
 
 
 
 
  ann sanfedele wrote:
 
  I'm walking distance from Adorama... and, of course, a phone call away...
 
  Were you just wanting to browse or was there something specific?
 
  Ann
 
  Derby Chang wrote:
 
 
  Don't understand why anyone would do this. Seems Adorama is being
  subjected to a DDoS. Hope they are back up soon
 
  D
 
 
 
 
 
  --
-- 


-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Adorama down

[Jack Davis]

Adorama's add to cart to check price icon does not respond for me.

Jack

--- On Sun, 11/1/09, paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote:

 From: paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net
 Subject: Re: Adorama down
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 12:48 PM
 
 On Nov 1, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Derby Chang wrote:
 
  Thanks Ann,
  
  Just wanted to do some used gear browsing. They are
 still site busy, at least for me.
  
  I would love to live walking distance away from
 Adorama...
  
  D
  
  
 And if you were within walking distance of Adorama, you'd
 also be within walking distance of BH. It doesn't get
 much better than that.
 Paul
  
  
  ann sanfedele wrote:
  I'm walking distance from Adorama... and, of
 course, a phone call away...
  
  Were you just wanting to browse or was there
 something specific?
  
  Ann
  
  Derby Chang wrote:
  
  
  Don't understand why anyone would do this.
 Seems Adorama is being subjected to a DDoS. Hope they are
 back up soon
  
  D
  
  
  
  
  
  --
  der...@iinet.net.au
  http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc
  
  --
  PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
  PDML@pdml.net
  http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
  to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link
 directly above and follow the directions.
 
 
 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link
 directly above and follow the directions.
 


  

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.