Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
erland;527261 Wrote: No, if you can reproduce it I'd suggest that you register a bug at bugs.slimdevices.com with detailed information about: - What operating system and SBS version and firmware version you are using - Step by step instruction how to reproduce the problem - Which radio station it's reproducible with - Relevant log files, for example the server.log file found through SBS web interface in Settings/Advanced/Logging/ No, I cannot reproduce this. It has happend only just the last weekend and never before. The only thing I want to know, if this happened to another user before. When the bug will happen once again, then of course I will try to safe the logs and how to reproduce. But I'm not very hopefull. -- steve0564 LG Steve -- 2x SB Boom 2x SB3 Classic SB Radio Controller an SqueezoboxServer 7.4.2 auf einem Scaleo WHS steve0564's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=27207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Another mistake / bug: Last weekend I switch on my radio. I search my prefered radiostation and the display shows that the station is playing. But I can't hear anything. Nothing! Sbs was running and the server was up, the indicator at the lower right corner shows a white connection to the server. Then I press the power-button for about 5 seconds, fully power off and than I had to power on again. Then I also can hear the station. Is this a normal behavior? -- steve0564 LG Steve -- 2x SB Boom 2x SB3 Classic SB Radio Controller an SqueezoboxServer 7.4.2 auf einem Scaleo WHS steve0564's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=27207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
steve0564;527202 Wrote: Another mistake / bug: Last weekend I switch on my radio. I search my prefered radiostation and the display shows that the station is playing. But I can't hear anything. Nothing! Sbs was running and the server was up, the indicator at the lower right corner shows a white connection to the server. Then I press the power-button for about 5 seconds, fully power off and than I had to power on again. Then I also can hear the station. Is this a normal behavior? No, if you can reproduce it I'd suggest that you register a bug at bugs.slimdevices.com with detailed information about: - What operating system and SBS version and firmware version you are using - Step by step instruction how to reproduce the problem - Which radio station it's reproducible with - Relevant log files, for example the server.log file found through SBS web interface in Settings/Advanced/Logging/ -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
PeteCress;526270 Wrote: I bought a Squeezebox for the wife after she asked me about a similar (but Pandora-centric) product she was interested in. On Day 1, THREE TIMES I explained to the wife Here are the presets... just press 1 for WHYY, 3 for WRTI, 6 for a German station... THREE TIMES, she came back to me saying What am I doing wrong? I pressed the button but nothing happened. THREE TIMES, I found the presets had been erased by (my understanding) a bug in the Squeezebox web site. At least twice during that period, the radio locked up and had to be unplugged from the power source and then plugged back in to reboot and become usable. I finally found out about the workaround for the preset problem (disable mysqueezebox.com integration in the web interface) but by that time, she had unplugged the thing, tossed it on my workstation, and told me Thanks, but no thanks.. Now I've got a $200 toy sitting next to my monitor. Nice little thing... and I enjoy listening to the music/whatever while I'm working... but if anybody asks me if I had problems that weren't covered in the above quote I would say Definately yes. Are you using a local squeezebox server -- or only mysqueezebox.com Better to use local squeezeboxserver software running on your computer. Have her try it again that way. AFter all, she didn't give up on you after a few mistakes -- did she? -- eap eap's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32788 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
eap;526374 Wrote: Are you using a local squeezebox server -- or only mysqueezebox.com. Better to use local squeezeboxserver software running on your computer. What nobody said was that this little toy really DOES need a 24/7 server working for it to operate as advertised. All I needed was a radio to turn on in the mornings and afternoons without having to turn on my computer. -- carib carib's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34240 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2;524897 Wrote: Continue to get backup alarm sound instead of my music playlist from SB Server 50% of the time on my SB Radio after update to 7.4.2 even after disabling nightly rebuild of my music libarary on my SB Radio. Just wanted to add my two cents. I'm having a very similar issue. I'm using my own SB server and setting up the alarm using the buttons on the radio. I choose a playlist of my music that is on my server as the alarm sound. At the set time the alarm will go off but it EITHER: 1) plays the correct playlist that I had selected when the alarm was set OR 2) plays the backup alarm for a second or so and then switches to the correct playlist I don't use fade in, so in either case the volume is the same. The latter, incorrect behavior (#2) has happened several times now and I've only had the radio for 9 days! I have verified that my network has been up and running each time this happened. Very annoying problem and frustrating to not have a solution. :( Jake-here. -- Jake-here Jake-here's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33366 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Jake-here;526424 Wrote: Just wanted to add my two cents. I'm having a very similar issue. I'm using my own SB server and setting up the alarm using the buttons on the radio. I choose a playlist of my music that is on my server as the alarm sound. At the set time the alarm will go off but it EITHER: 1) plays the correct playlist that I had selected when the alarm was set OR 2) plays the backup alarm for a second or so and then switches to the correct playlist I don't use fade in, so in either case the volume is the same. The latter, incorrect behavior (#2) has happened several times now and I've only had the radio for 9 days! I have verified that my network has been up and running each time this happened. Very annoying problem and frustrating to not have a solution. :( Jake-here. Well, it took them four months to fix the previous problems, so don't hold your breath. Logitech has demonstrated increasing levels of ineptitude when it comes to this product line. -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
eap;526374 Wrote: Are you using a local squeezebox server -- or only mysqueezebox.com. Better to use local squeezeboxserver software running on your computer. I have Squeeze box's Windows Home Server version installed on my WHS box. Under C:\Program Files\Squeezebox, there is a server directory. MyComputer | Manage | Services and Applications | Services shows a service called Squeezebox Server running. Is that enough to conclude that I am not using myysqueezebox.com? Or could I still be hooked into it in spite? -- PeteCress -- PeteCresswell PeteCress's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37002 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
PeteCress;526474 Wrote: I have Squeeze box's Windows Home Server version installed on my WHS box. Under C:\Program Files\Squeezebox, there is a server directory. MyComputer | Manage | Services and Applications | Services shows a service called Squeezebox Server running. Is that enough to conclude that I am not using myysqueezebox.com? Or could I still be hooked into it in spite? Your players should show up on the status page of your SBS: http://your_whs_server:9000/settings/server/status.html -- flattermann Home of 'SqueezeCommander' (http://www.squeezecommander.com) - The SqueezeBox Remote Control App for Android flattermann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
flattermann;526476 Wrote: Your players should show up on the status page of your SBS: http://your_whs_server:9000/settings/server/status.html That seems to nail it then: I am *not* hooking into mysqueezebox.com. That's kind of a relief bc it would seem to imply that if LogiTech pulls the plug, my device will still work. Or am I just wishing? Squeezebox Server Status Version: 7.4.2 - r30215 @ Mon Feb 22 10:11:12 PST 2010 Hostname: sage Server IP Address: 192.168.0.102 Server HTTP Port Number: 9000 Operating system: Windows Home Server - EN - cp1252 Platform Architecture: 586 Perl Version: 5.10.0 - MSWin32-x86-multi-thread MySQL Version: 5.0.22-community-nt Total Players Recognized: 1 -- PeteCress -- PeteCresswell PeteCress's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37002 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
erland;525985 Wrote: How do you configure the alarm ? On MySB.com web site or in the SBS web interface or directly on the Radio ? Do you only use MySB.com for alarms ? Do you only use your local SBS for alarms ? Originally was using alarm set on the radio, but I sometimes turned it off/changed time via web interface on server/mysb depending on where it was attached. Tried all of them. I switched back to using local server again, and everything works. It still tells me it wants to update each boot, but after pressing a preset and letting playback start the home button works again - can be used as normal. I mostly use the local one (well, actually it's over 400 km away, but I've got a vpn tunnel up). If that for some reason is down, the backup does sound just fine on 7.4.1, but not on 7.4.2. I then use mysb (if it happens to work, which it definately does not always do) to use alarm. -- korhojoa korhojoa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37019 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
That's an interesting find. Can you refresh my memory on enabling ssh access on the SBR? I will see if I can catch it in the act myself. I don't, however, believe my network is the cause of this. I have seen the SB Radio go down and lose the wi-fi in 7.4.1 (but not in 7.4.2) even when the network was up and healthy with plenty of other devices going about their business. -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2;525794 Wrote: That's an interesting find. Can you refresh my memory on enabling ssh access on the SBR? I will see if I can catch it in the act myself. Settings Advanced Remote Login -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
erland;525746 Wrote: Does other people see the same thing, that normal alarm first plays and then switches to backup alarm after a while ? Or do you get the backup alarm immediately ? I think I saw that behavior once or twice, but I am not sure (wasn't quite awake at that time). It does use the backup sound occasionally even though the DSL is already up. -- copperstate copperstate's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34756 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
erland;525746 Wrote: Does other people see the same thing, that normal alarm first plays and then switches to backup alarm after a while ? Or do you get the backup alarm immediately ? The backup alarm jangle can be first to kick in at the scheduled alarm time. But it can also, it seems, kick in at any time during the alarm period. I think I have had router problems as well as a PC slow to start. At its worst, the 'correct' alarm can start, and give me 3 or even 30 minutes of BBC Radio 4, and then suddenly give way to the jarring backup. Which is infuriating. In the 'old' days of 7.4.1, the backup would also give way to the chosen stream after a few minutes: that does not happen so much these days. (However, as someone else on the this list commented, it is the very unpredictability of this radio which gives it its charm, and prevents us taking it for granted.) Peter ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
peter.s;525870 Wrote: erland;525746 Wrote: Does other people see the same thing, that normal alarm first plays and then switches to backup alarm after a while ? Or do you get the backup alarm immediately ? In the 'old' days of 7.4.1, the backup would also give way to the chosen stream after a few minutes: that does not happen so much these days. This is by intention. If the backup started once it won't switch back. If you have a scenario where normal audio starts and the backup kicks in later, than with a huge probability you have disconnections from the server due to network problems or the server is down (or the stream had problems) After that moment the Radio doesn't trust any signals from the server anymore until the user stops the backup alarm manually. In 7.4.1 the Radio trusted the server too much which let to the well known instability problems. Now the backup might be perceived as a bit too aggressive but its the only way to have it ring in most of the possible cornercases, I think. -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
bluegaspode;525887 Wrote: ... After that moment the Radio doesn't trust any signals from the server anymore until the user stops the backup alarm manually. ... It does not even stop after the set timeout interval? -- copperstate copperstate's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34756 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Don't know exactly, but I don't think it is respecting any timeout when in fallback-mode. The problem is that from what I know there is now special 'timeout' signal from the server, just a general 'hey there is a new alarm for tomorrow, you can stop the current'. Unfortunately this signal is also coming, when the server reboots, so can't be trusted (as with peter.s's server - that is sometimes a little late when waking up - this would instantly stop the just started alarm). This is one of those architecture problems Marc talks about. Cannot be solved without a big overhaul (which I doubt will happen :( ) -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
bluegaspode;525897 Wrote: Don't know exactly, but I don't think it is respecting any timeout when in fallback-mode. ... Cannot be solved without a big overhaul (which I doubt will happen :( ) That's what I suspected. :( Hopefully they will spend some more resources on it when the Touch is finally out. -- copperstate copperstate's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34756 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
korhojoa;525980 Wrote: First: alarm is no longer reliable. How do you configure the alarm ? On MySB.com web site or in the SBS web interface or directly on the Radio ? Do you only use MySB.com for alarms ? Do you only use your local SBS for alarms ? -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Marc;525469 Wrote: If the logs were there then that would be possible... Marc or bluegaspode, let's focus on the logging. We all know the history, there is no point arguing who is right and who is wrong. Marc, if I understand you correctly, we need some more logging to be able to track the problem ? If you have the time and inspiration (I can understand if you don't), it would be great if you could suggest where in the current version of the AlarmSnoozeApplet code in 7.4.2 we should insert these extra log messages. Logitech will of course still have to decide if they like to insert these log messages or not in the production code. However, if they don't we can still make a patch which can be installed through my Patch Installer applet so the people which often get the incorrect fallback alarm can provide the necessary log files to Logitech. The Patch Installer applet requires 7.5 firmware so we can't use that before 7.5 is out of the door, but anyone with the right knowledge can still install the patch manually. By the way, I've seen the incorrect fallback alarm on 7.5, so it's not just 7.4.2 that has this problem. Personally, I still feel that Logitech needs to take a look at the whole client/server architecture to solve this alarm issue completely, but if we can get it to work better with some small changes it could be a good temporary solution. Feel free to continue the development related discussions in the Developers section of the forum where it's a bigger chance that someone from Logitech sees the discussion. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
bluegaspode;525510 Wrote:
Why would I feel the need to defend 7.4.2. Every software (be it
devoloped from you, me or logitech) will always have remaining bugs
which need to be solved.
And I keep my oppion. Claiming that the few unknown bugs from now
wouldn't have happened with your code is just plain arrogant, pardon my
words.
When you are not able to convince people of important changes (or to
keep some lines of code), than part of the problem is definitely also on
your side.
{shrug} Arrogance is in the eye of the beholder, I suggest. You're
exhibiting some of your own with your comments, if I may be so bold.
Why don't you stop complaining about the purported shortcomings in my
(unwisely discarded) code and instead go fix the problems in 7.4.2 (the
way that I once did for 7.4.1)...?
bluegaspode;525510 Wrote:
I think its not just about the log messages in the applet.
The radio has a very nasty problem, that
a) its logfiles are to short and changes are overwritten too early.
this can be fixed ad hoc by using the instructions from here:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15444#c43
b) its logfiles get overwritten, when the radio reboots or crashes
(horrible!).
About both I'm swearing often, because my radio also sometime gets into
strange states, where it disconnected from the network and only
rebooting helps. Gone are the logfiles :(
I tried to find a bug report for both, but couldn't find them.
That was exactly the point I was making about logging. The current
logging doesn't facilitate effective debug when important log output is
lost (because the logs are not big enough, not double buffered, etc.).
I was not alluding specifically to the alarm applet output...
Not sure what you mean in your last comment about a bug not being
filed, but I don't see why there needs to be one at this stage. One of
the first things done by a competent embedded development organization
is to develop/enhance a proper logging subsystem so that critical
crash/malfunction data isn't lost...
--
Marc
Marc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34776
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541
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Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
erland;525498 Wrote: Marc or bluegaspode, let's focus on the logging. We all know the history, there is no point arguing who is right and who is wrong. Marc, if I understand you correctly, we need some more logging to be able to track the problem ? I haven't looked specifically at the applet output in the context of tracking the alarm problems I've seen, Erland. When I spoke about logging being lacking earlier I was alluding to the fact that critical logging data is lost under a variety of conditions. The logging subsystem leaves much to be desired at the outset, which makes delving into specific problems difficult/impossible... In the context of the arguing, I think it's obvious at this point that I take offense to the denigration of my attempts to fix alarms in 7.4.1. after a variety of my suggestions were dismissed subsequently while instability remains. Then to try and blame my code for said remaining instability...? Talk about leaving a bad taste in the mouth... erland;525498 Wrote: If you have the time and inspiration (I can understand if you don't), it would be great if you could suggest where in the current version of the AlarmSnoozeApplet code in 7.4.2 we should insert these extra log messages. Logitech will of course still have to decide if they like to insert these log messages or not in the production code. However, if they don't we can still make a patch which can be installed through my Patch Installer applet so the people which often get the incorrect fallback alarm can provide the necessary log files to Logitech. The Patch Installer applet requires 7.5 firmware so we can't use that before 7.5 is out of the door, but anyone with the right knowledge can still install the patch manually. By the way, I've seen the incorrect fallback alarm on 7.5, so it's not just 7.4.2 that has this problem. Personally, I still feel that Logitech needs to take a look at the whole client/server architecture to solve this alarm issue completely, but if we can get it to work better with some small changes it could be a good temporary solution. Feel free to continue the development related discussions in the Developers section of the forum where it's a bigger chance that someone from Logitech sees the discussion. Unfortunately, I've little remaining inspiration at this point... Marc -- Marc Marc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34776 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Marc;525524 Wrote: Why don't you stop complaining about the purported shortcomings in my (unwisely discarded) code and instead go fix the problems in 7.4.2 (the way that I once did for 7.4.1)...? Because from your writing it seems you are the only one who ever understood all implications and could be solving this problem. Why should I try ? But more important: given the slow response times of logitech with complicated bugs - I (as well as you) don't have much motivation to make their work. Not sure what you mean in your last comment about a bug not being filed Should have written 'enhancement request'. Without one logitech doesn't start to work on things. I created this one, erland if you could be so kind to confirm this one ? https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15900 -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Marc;525163 Wrote: I spent a great deal of time working toward the resolution of alarm problems in 7.4.1, unfortunately a good portion of my implementation suggestions were discarded. Marc, don't grumble, that's not true. I'd say that 95% of your suggestions made it in the final code - and the last 5% either didn't look important or you were not able to make your point why some scenarios would fail when these parts were done differently. Also some good things came from Ben like caching the snooze-time from the server or better/correct detection of failing audio. In the end Ben had a lot of testcases which he went through with the final implementation and I think its not fair to say 'If you had taken all of my code without questioning it wouldn't have happened' without providing prove of it or providing a failing testcase. We are all professional coders and should trust to make right decisions in the void that is left without testcases. Now the work is to find out what the missing cases are and as we have very good logging (and some user with problems) this shouldn't be too difficult. Though it's not good that the fallback alarm is maybe firing too often - its a good sign for reliablitiy (as it's better than a missing alarm). I didn't have any alarm problem yet though I'm waking up to it every morning - so I'm very interested to see some logs from the radio ! By the way - as logitechs focus has moved away from the alarm again I would spent my time only in documenting the failing cases but personally wouldn't look into the code again. Would be too depressing to wait for someone caring for that in the end (did that once for 4 month, not again ;) ) -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
bluegaspode;525205 Wrote: Marc, don't grumble, that's not true. I'd say that 95% of your suggestions made it in the final code - and the last 5% either didn't look important or you were not able to make your point (when at least two people were listening) why some scenarios would fail when these parts were done differently. Also some good things came from Ben like caching the snooze-time from the server or better/correct detection of failing audio. In the end Ben had a lot of testcases which he went through with the final implementation and I think its not fair to say 'If you had taken all of my code without questioning it wouldn't have happened' without providing prove of it or providing a failing testcase. We are all professional coders and should trust to make right decisions in the void that is left without testcases. Now the work is to find out what the missing cases are and as we have very good logging (and some user with problems) this shouldn't be too difficult. Though it's not good that the fallback alarm is maybe firing too often - its a good sign for reliablitiy (as it's better than a missing alarm). I didn't have any alarm problem yet though I'm waking up to it every morning - so I'm very interested to see some logs from the radio ! By the way - as logitechs focus has moved away from the alarm again I would spent my time only in documenting the failing cases but personally wouldn't look into the code again. Would be too depressing to wait for someone caring for that in the end (did that once for 4 month, also see thread starter, not again ;) ) I hear what you are saying, and you are right that Ben worked hard toward resolution of the alarm problems. Having said that, I disagree with some of what you stated above. Obviously, the alarm malfunctions I've witnessed in 7.4.2 are better than a missing alarm (no need for a specious argument)...I'll get the customary disclaimer out of the way [yet again] about how the underlying architecture is heavily flawed (the client/server aspect doesn't make sense in the context of how SC/MySB.com communicate with the Radio). The attempts I made to patch the existing architecture (it was clear a wholesale overhaul was not in the cards short term) for stability would indeed have resulted in a more stable alarm situation for 7.4.2. On that point we disagree. Enough has been changed such that I would need to largely begin anew in debugging/resolving. And for what...? Your good nature and useful input (along with that of others) served to greatly assist during the process. The environment here at the forums is compelling, as well (friendly, cooperative, etc.). However, there are indeed changes that were made to my modifications which were unwise. In the final analysis, alarms are still less stable than they should be... Marc -- Marc Marc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34776 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
erland;525175 Wrote: Same thing has happened to me too a couple of times. Your efforts in the past are greatly appreciated, I can understand your frustration but I hope you change your mind. At the moment all Logitech resources are probably busy with the Touch release but after they have finished that it might be time to look at the alarm handing again. Thanks for the words of appreciation, Erland. They mean a great deal, particularly coming from you. I don't mind giving of my free time, but I'm not enthusiastic about giving such an effort when a good chunk of it appears to have discounted. -- Marc Marc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34776 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
bluegaspode;525448 Wrote: I think its not fair to claim your patch was the best of all and everything done later was to the worse. Your change was a BIG step towards a very good solution on the given architecture, but also with Bens additional changes to your patch we have a much more stable alarm situation in 7.4.2. Maybe even more stable than your patch ? Who knows ? You are welcome to your opinion, of course. If anyone has the desire, time, and compunction to look back at the extensive conversation thread that took place in the developers forum then it's there for the perusing. Honestly, your comments are a pointed illustration as to why it makes little sense to keep working toward stability. Your 95% estimate of my changes that were incorporated is a poor one. My architecture was indeed used, but far more than 5% of the changes that I made were discarded. The devil is in the details, and the details were not respected properly when important pieces were discarded. This is particularly true in the context of how the client/server architecture used is/was unintuitive and more, rather than less, pedantic code is/was clearly a necessity to track and defend against unexpected behaviors. You are wrong, by the way, about the changes made to my modifications having increased stability. They did not, as evidenced by the problems that remain in 7.4.2. I warned specifically against sacrificing some of the state tracking I had added, yet my warnings went unheeded. It's true that you weren't convinced after much debate, though, so perhaps you still believe the right course was pursued. I admit that it's a bit offensive, though, when you say glibly that perhaps the changes I recommended retaining weren't up to the standards of the now disseminated 7.4.2 code - which is clearly still unstable. It would make sense for you to defend the now released 7.4.2 code, despite its continued instability, I suppose, since perhaps you feel the need to take some measure of responsibility for not being convinced of a number of the since discarded stability measures I lobbied for. bluegaspode;525448 Wrote: Without logs for the current minor hickups noone is able to tell, who is to blame. Remaining parts from the 7.4.1 code-base? Your original patch ? Bens later changes ? I attempted to get the log after the malfunction occurred (while I should have been headed off to work). Unfortunately, it had been quickly overwritten and was lost. I've also suggested that logging be enhanced to prevent this type of situation in the past, if you recall. bluegaspode;525448 Wrote: To make at least one logitech developer feel very comfortable with the current code :) It wouldn't make sense to take your changes as a 1:1 copy to make your debugging now easier ... its far more important that logitech feels comfortable with the code and is able to understand its current ideas on the long run. No one suggested a 1:1 copy of my work. The code I'm alluding to that was unwisely discarded consisted of specific state information that was tracked to enhance both stability and post-mortem analysis. Nor did I ever state or imply that 'everything after [my changes] was to the worse'. I'm afraid you're putting words in my mouth that I don't appreciate here... Ok, so now Logitech is ostensibly more comfortable based upon your commentary (not an unreasonable point). Are they now working on these new issues, whether making logging more useful to facilitate log feedback from customers by preventing log overwrites or by continuing to test alarms in 7.4.2? Has that development comfort translated into alarm robustness? I'm not going to get further into a personal defense of my work, nor of my history and expertise in embedded product development. Suffice it to say that I am not (and was not) guessing when it came to working toward alarm stability. Logitech as an organization has a lot to learn about both embedded development and client/server architecture... It's too bad, really, because I truly believe the Radio could be huge. bluegaspode;525448 Wrote: That being said - lets at least spend time in creating the appropiate logs for the current 'backup alarm even though the stream seems to be available' problem. Noone asks for or expects further debugging. If the logs were there then that would be possible... -- Marc Marc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34776 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
I will attempt to set up the logging on the radio and collect them but it will be this weekend at the earliest. I don't have a lot of time to spend fixing Logitech screwups. :) -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2;524897 Wrote: Continue to get backup alarm sound instead of my music playlist from SB Server 50% of the time on my SB Radio after update to 7.4.2 even after disabling nightly rebuild of my music libarary on my SB Radio. Interestingly this did not happen on 7.4.1 so obviously some fix for alarm reliability has broken my alarm. Does anyone know if a bug report has been filed yet on this? I also had a 7.4.2 alarm malfunction a couple of days ago. Backup alarm audio played even though the station selected for the alarm sound was working fine. I turned the alarm off and hit the play button then the station played fine. After that the alarm fired again (extraneously) and cycled between the backup alarm sound and the selected station. There is also a volume problem where the alarm audio level sent in by the server isn't properly coordinated with the locally set volume, so when you touch the volume dial the level jumps unexpectedly as the local volume level switches from the server provided volume to the local volume setting. I spent a great deal of time working toward the resolution of alarm problems in 7.4.1, unfortunately a good portion of my implementation suggestions were discarded. It's not worth banging my head against a wall my while sacrificing my own free time at this point... The good news is that I have yet to witness a set alarm that didn't actually fire in 7.4.2, even though the alarm behavior is still messed up. Marc -- Marc Marc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34776 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Marc;525163 Wrote: I also had a 7.4.2 alarm malfunction a couple of days ago. Backup alarm audio played even though the station selected for the alarm sound was working fine. I turned the alarm off and hit the play button then the station played fine. After that the alarm fired again (extraneously) and cycled between the backup alarm sound and the selected station. Same thing has happened to me too a couple of times. Marc;525163 Wrote: I spent a great deal of time working toward the resolution of alarm problems in 7.4.1, unfortunately a good portion of my implementation suggestions were discarded. It's not worth banging my head against a wall while sacrificing my own free time at this point... Your efforts in the past are greatly appreciated, I can understand your frustration but I hope you change your mind. At the moment all Logitech resources are probably busy with the Touch release but after they have finished that it might be time to look at the alarm handing again. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Continue to get backup alarm sound instead of my music playlist from SB Server 50% of the time on my SB Radio after update to 7.4.2 even after disabling nightly rebuild of my music libarary on my SB Radio. Interestingly this did not happen on 7.4.1 so obviously some fix for alarm reliability has broken my alarm. Does anyone know if a bug report has been filed yet on this? -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
so many users have posted to this thread already may words to this is: I love my SBR and would not like to miss it any more I was totaly impressed from this streaming-concept right from the beginning but the devices were much to expensive for me as a student :-( of course I also had my troubles with the alarm in version 7.4.1 but since 7.4.2 it NEVER failed which also convinced my girlfrind now that the SBR is a great toy! regards! simsboard -- simsboard so far only 1x Squeezebox Radio mainly used with mysb.com http://www.lastfm.de/user/weanabazi simsboard's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33135 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
The situation improved a lot, but mainly due to the server changes two weeks or so before the 7.4.2 update. Unfortunately, there are still some issues with the alarm. E.g. as discussed before, there's a very high chance that it stops without backup if the router reconnects during the alarm. Also my Radio still looses the MYSB connection sporadically (blue WLAN symbol) although the internet connection and WLAN is perfectly valid. In this state, there is no way to reconnect to MYSB but to reboot. This happened at least twice since the 7.4.2 update. So there's still lots to do to make the Radio as reliable as any cheap alarm clock. -- 0xdeadbeef 0xdeadbeef's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2287 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
I continue to have issues with my SB Radio not waking me up to the selected playlist, but instead waking me up to the backup alarm sound. This is actually more common now in 7.4.2 than it was in 7.4.1 (it happened one time in 7.4.1 and it's happened over 20 times in 7.4.2). I will turn off the nightly library rescans to see if that helps at all. -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
I bought the Squeezebox Radio to replace a 27 year old conventional clock radio that had become unreliable. I bought it with no real understanding of what it would do other than play audio streamed by radio stations and wake me up in the morning. Reviewers said it had a nice sound for a bedside radio. What a revelation! I am totally in love. I discovered Pandora and Last.fm. I thought that I would get streaming C-SPAN Radio, but discovered that I could also get the audio of the 3 C-SPAN TV channels. I can listen to my podcasts and am getting ready to transfer my vinyl records and CDs to digital to listen to my music collection on the Radio and in preparation for the purchase of the Squeezebox Touch. All this from a not particularly well researched impulse buy. In addition, I discovered this community where geeks and ordinary people cooperate to develop and refine the functionality of the product. No one ever asked me before how I used my alarm and if I had told them, they would not have been interested. As a 68 year-old little old lady, I am probably not the target customer for the squeezebox line of products. I wonder who the average customer is? -- mpower9 mpower9's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33930 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Tut, tut, now, now, dearie. We mustn't be agist, must we? -- mpower9 mpower9's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33930 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
erland;523172 Wrote: I think it's important to remember that what we see on these forums are users with problems, but we don't see is the other 95% who are very happy with the Radio. I'm not saying that we should ignore the 5% that have problems, I'm just saying that I strongly believe that the Radio does work for most people. Even more since the 7.4.2 release when you can be pretty sure that the Radio plays some sound at the correct alarm time. (5% is obviously just an educated guess, I suspect it's even less than that in reallity) erland, The subject of average users is interesting, and certainly most relevant to the potential success of squeezebox as a product line. I agree that this forum attracts perhaps the most demanding users of the product. Today this group likely makes up a larger percentage of the customer base than it would if/when the product was to become a general consumer product, vs. a geek toy. The market potential question fascinates me, as a business owner myself. I've got a small sample of general consumer usage, based upon having given 4 SB Radios as Christmas gifts, and am surprised to what I've observed. (It would be interesting if Logitech did a real survey of usage!) My 4 sample users: A 20-something college student, who uses the radio entirely to listen to Pandora. It serves as a Pandora Player in his apartment. Very happy with the radio. A 50-something sports fan who mastered the internet radio search, and uses it almost exclusively to find and listen to US-wide sports broadcasts not otherwise available on local over-the-air radio. It has opened up to him a new and appreciated way to follow sports broadcasts. Very happy with the radio. A 40-something couple, who use it very infrequently, and only as a radio. They seem to have set rely on presets for local stations. Looks to them like a standard radio with very good reception. Not all that impressed. A 40 something who uses it as a bedside radio, listening to one local station. Reports to have never gotten the alarms to work. Likes the nice clear clock display screen. Seems to me to be a waste of technology money here. Things that I've seen in looking at the small sample: 2 had no setup problems, 2 needed help from tech savvy friends to get it working Only 1 seems to have tried alarms, and failed. None listen to podcasts None installed the server software (I suspect that only 1, the 20 something, even knows that a server of any kind, local on mySB, exists.) I think that only the 20 something set up a mysqueezebox account None use it for their music collection, although I believe that 3 of the 4 are iTunes users and have music players of some sort. Some patterns: All use the radio as a single use device All view it as a simple appliance None come anywhere near utilizing the capabilities of the radio, or even recognize what's possible None use the alarm feature None are aware of or understand the server concept, local or mySB 3 of 4 see it as a new kind of radio, like a standard radio only able to receive more stations with great quality None use this or any other web sites for usage instruction None would ever report a bug None know nor care about software versions or updates What it tells me: 1. None of these people would have purchases the radio, had I not given it to them. SB needs much more focus on marketing to the masses. Currently the product message is getting out only by word of mouth and scattered internet reviews, and only to a tech-savvy base. The message has to focus on What SB does. What are the core capabilities - the N things that the SB Radio does well? Why should one buy it for $150 vs. a $30 standard radio? Tivo is a good model for this type of marketing (We're changing how you watch TV) 2. Upon owning the radio, none were able to understand the capabilities and get them to work Lack of user documentation or a manual is a big shortcoming. Only the geeks will dig around the web and find forums like this. People are used to appliances that plug in and have obvious functions. The server concept is foreign to non-geek consumers.SB needs a way to clearly get the concept across to consumers. Too many odd names my Squeezebox Squeezebox Server, etc. Confusion on when to use each for what. Is the only reason to install a local server to be able to listen to your music collection? 3. Ease of use While not all that bad, the current user interface on the radio needs to be looked at for possible improvement and simplification. Separate basic consumer function from advanced serious user function. Look sat buttons, menus, and messages. Similar to the approach taken by Tivo, that made it appealing to a wide consumer audience, while providing some fairly technical capabilities. Average walking-around slob consumers try to do something once with an appliance, Is it works, they use it, if the 1st attempt fails, they forget about using it. In summary, the change to
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
I am a bit of a SB junkie/fan and technophile, so I don't consider my own views representative, but your post does help a lot in bringing a real-world perspective. I appreciated it a lot. A company I used to work for had a very good slogan summing up the aspiration I have for technology products, which is Sense and Simplicity. Living up to that slogan is much harder than coining it, but I have some companies in mind that do very well by closely approximating that goal. -- dsdreamer -- Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you... dsdreamer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
davenva;523261 Wrote: erland, The subject of average users is interesting, and certainly most relevant to the potential success of squeezebox as a product line. I agree that this forum attracts perhaps the most demanding users of the product. Today this group likely makes up a larger percentage of the customer base than it would if/when the product was to become a general consumer product, vs. a geek toy. The market potential question fascinates me, as a business owner myself. I've got a small sample of general consumer usage, based upon having given 4 SB Radios as Christmas gifts, and am surprised to what I've observed. (It would be interesting if Logitech did a real survey of usage!) My 4 sample users: A 20-something college student, who uses the radio entirely to listen to Pandora. It serves as a Pandora Player in his apartment. Very happy with the radio. A 50-something sports fan who mastered the internet radio search, and uses it almost exclusively to find and listen to US-wide sports broadcasts not otherwise available on local over-the-air radio. It has opened up to him a new and appreciated way to follow sports broadcasts. Very happy with the radio. A 40-something couple, who use it very infrequently, and only as a radio. They seem to have set rely on presets for local stations. Looks to them like a standard radio with very good reception. Not all that impressed. A 40 something who uses it as a bedside radio, listening to one local station. Reports to have never gotten the alarms to work. Likes the nice clear clock display screen. Seems to me to be a waste of technology money here. I agree with your comments. But just so all 40 somethings aren't disparaged, I'm 47 and my wife turns 40 this year. We use SB radio as our daily alarm clock (usually waking up to Sirius Satellite, Howard Stern), we entertain our 5 year old son in our room with songs from our music collection (he loves the Who, particularly Baba O'Riley). Have presets from Pandora, to local radio Internet streams and the grateful dead channel on Sirius. We also have a duet in the family room and dining room that we listen to almost all weekend. Switching from acoustic cafe stations in the morning to rock and opera while eating dinner. Of course, without my computer skills, my wife wouldn't have a clue how to set it up. -- eap eap's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32788 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Excellent post Davenva ! I think all your friends have mysqueezebox.com accounts possible more than one ;) But they don't now. The setup wizard is very adamant in that respect it ask for email right on the screen, I assume that a large quantity of new users do what you do on some websites john@bogus.com password =whatever to just pass the nag screen and never thinks that it could be of some importance. -- Mnyb Main hifi: SB3 (soon to replaced by a Touch :) It is on preorder) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Receiver (soon to be replaced by my SB3 and the SBR to be stuffed in a box in the attic ) Miscellaneous use: Radio (battery pack to be ordered) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
davenva;522893 Wrote: Hi, Some thoughts: - Why is the alarm clock function implemented as client-server, requiring a 7x24 computer to be running to signal an alarm? (Whether or not one should have a server running 7x24 is an irrelevant question - it shouldn't be required for an alarm clock!) This was the big mistake IMO. The Radio has a computer inside. All alarm functionality should have been in firmware with the basic ability to set alarms, snooze and beep all managed locally. Then it would have been isolated from wi-fi/server/internet issues and could always fallback gracefully to local capabilities. davenva;522893 Wrote: - Why does Logitech not have a software quality assurance function and some regression testing? Use this to reproduce bugs and ensure that they get fixed and stay fixed? They do. It is under-resourced. davenva;522893 Wrote: - Why does it take months and months to address bugs and issue patches, when there seems to be a fine facility for pushing down software to the radios? Ever tried raising a bug with Sony? davenva;522893 Wrote: - Why does the bug reporting and logging system and process seem so informal and disorganized? Is there a list of reported bugs, showing if they are reproduced, and the planned fix date or version? Have you looked at the Bugzilla database? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Phil Leigh;522948 Wrote: This was the big mistake IMO. The Radio has a computer inside. All alarm functionality should have been in firmware with the basic ability to set alarms, snooze and beep all managed locally. Then it would have been isolated from wi-fi/server/internet issues and could always fallback gracefully to local capabilities. I think the problem is that they wanted to use the same alarm logic for all Squeezebox devices, after all, the Boom should have the same alarm functionality as the Radio. A local alarm is fine on the Radio, Touch and Controller but it wouldn't work on Transporter, Boom and Classic due to the restricted CPU, storage and memory on those devices. Due to this it's not that strange that they selected the client/server solution since they needed the server part anyway for the old devices. Of course, after the 7.4.1 release, when they tried to make a quick fix to the problems, they realized that this client/server approach also made the client part a lot more complex on the Radio. At that time it was too late to completely change the architecture. I suspect we are going to see a changed alarm handling in 7.6 or 8.x which doesn't rely on the server as much as the current one does, but only the future will tell if this suspicion is correct or not. At least, the logic in 7.4.2 should be pretty reliable to trigger some sound, it's just that it will sometimes trigger the high volume fallback alarm instead of some nice ramped up music. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
davenva;522893 Wrote: Just checked in after a long absence, to see if the alarm problems had been fixed. I was happy to discover this thread. Sounds like the answer is no. I think this is not true. A lot of work has been put into the task (though a bit too late), that for whatever reason could go wrong, some sound sound (be it the wanted or the fallback alarm) is playing. This goal in my opinion was achieved and I'm very happy for now. Now we have some sights that in certain situations there still seem to be problems - one with snoozing and a subsequent alarm - some other which are not reproducable yet The first maybe could have been found - but me and others tested a lot themselves (including snoozes) and didn't find it. I'm not sure if more people in a QA department would have spotted this - some bugs are just not as obvious as others. For the second point - lets wait - I didn't make an opinion about that one, I didn't see a log file yet where some alarm didn't sound and eagerly waiting for it. -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Phil Leigh Thanks for the reply. Good that we agree on poor alarm function design. I stand by my comments on the rest. The underfunded QA function supports my comment. Management should fix the funding issue. Citing Sony support is the old We're bad, but so is someone else defense. The team should strive to be the best, not simply to avoid being the worst. I've used and searched the Bugzilla database. It's a poorly maintained, hard to use, list of problems. A LONG list. Most of which appear to be un-addressed. Only geek customers will find and understand the list. Not customer-friendly. The resolution field for most is blank. I've voted, but can't easily see priory. Credit given for having a list, disappointment for not using the list to managing work and communicating to customers. The team should publish an easy to understand list of bugs, noting if they have accepted (can reproduce) them, and providing information on a planned fix date or release. It sounds to me like good management is lacking for the product team, as is a concerted effort at being customer-focused and doing product and process improvement. Logitech has a game-changing technology here that has the potential to bring Internet audio to the mass consumer market (not just as a toy for geeks). Failure to capitalize would be very sad. -- davenva davenva's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34191 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
davenva;523034 Wrote: Phil Leigh Thanks for the reply. Good that we agree on poor alarm function design. I stand by my comments on the rest. The underfunded QA function supports my comment. Management should fix the funding issue. Citing Sony support is the old We're bad, but so is someone else defense. The team should strive to be the best, not simply to avoid being the worst. I've used and searched the Bugzilla database. It's a poorly maintained, hard to use, list of problems. A LONG list. Most of which appear to be un-addressed. Only geek customers will find and understand the list. Not customer-friendly. The resolution field for most is blank. I've voted, but can't easily see priory. Credit given for having a list, disappointment for not using the list to managing work and communicating to customers. The team should publish an easy to understand list of bugs, noting if they have accepted (can reproduce) them, and providing information on a planned fix date or release. It sounds to me like good management is lacking for the product team, as is a concerted effort at being customer-focused and doing product and process improvement. Logitech has a game-changing technology here that has the potential to bring Internet audio to the mass consumer market (not just as a toy for geeks). Failure to capitalize would be very sad. The points I was making were: 1) most LARGE tech companies don't fix bugs reported by their customers very quickly - if ever. In this respect, the Squeezebox product is quite unusual. I've been on this board for 5 years+ and I've seen some bugs fixed in HOURS! 2) At least there is - and always has been - a customer-accessible list of issues, whatever you think of it. This itself is a refreshing change from the norm. I'm not disagreeing with you, just proferring an alternate perspective. Phil -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
erland;522953 Wrote: I think the problem is that they wanted to use the same alarm logic for all Squeezebox devices, after all, the Boom should have the same alarm functionality as the Radio. A local alarm is fine on the Radio, Touch and Controller but it wouldn't work on Transporter, Boom and Classic due to the restricted CPU, storage and memory on those devices. Due to this it's not that strange that they selected the client/server solution since they needed the server part anyway for the old devices. Of course, after the 7.4.1 release, when they tried to make a quick fix to the problems, they realized that this client/server approach also made the client part a lot more complex on the Radio. At that time it was too late to completely change the architecture. I suspect we are going to see a changed alarm handling in 7.6 or 8.x which doesn't rely on the server as much as the current one does, but only the future will tell if this suspicion is correct or not. At least, the logic in 7.4.2 should be pretty reliable to trigger some sound, it's just that it will sometimes trigger the high volume fallback alarm instead of some nice ramped up music. Erland - I hope they will learn from this. Now that slim has become fuller figure, they really need to move on and take advantage of their fundamental paradigm shift. One size fits all just doesn't work... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Phil Leigh;523070 Wrote: Erland - I hope they will learn from this. Now that slim has become fuller figure, they really need to move on and take advantage of their fundamental paradigm shift. One size fits all just doesn't work... It does seem to be the crux of the problem with squeezeplay. It's really the worst of both worlds. After years of stability at the ip3k level they forgot how much work had gone into it, and now 3 years into development they're still grappling with fundamental issues like this. I hope the touch ushers in a new era, but the staff cutbacks and manufacturing issues, its not looking good. -- sander sander's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10737 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
sander;523116 Wrote: It does seem to be the crux of the problem with squeezeplay. It's really the worst of both worlds. After years of stability at the ip3k level they forgot how much work had gone into it, and now 3 years into development they're still grappling with fundamental issues like this. I hope the touch ushers in a new era, but the staff cutbacks and manufacturing issues, its not looking good. Just to be clear, as a beta tester of both the Radio and the Touch and a owner or Duet, Boom and Classic I can honestly say that The Radio and Touch is the most promising devices so far. Their potential is huge and for me the Radio is already the best clock radio I've ever had and the Touch is the best music player in the living room I've ever had. I think it's important to remember that what we see on these forums are users with problems, but we don't see is the other 95% who are very happy with the Radio. I'm not saying that we should ignore the 5% that have problems, I'm just saying that I strongly believe that the Radio does work for most people. Even more since the 7.4.2 release when you can be pretty sure that the Radio plays some sound at the correct alarm time. (5% is obviously just an educated guess, I suspect it's even less than that in reallity) -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Hi, I'm the grumpy old guy who was an early complainer about the alarm problems.(I believe that I made the original suggestion involving a $5 alarm clock and duct tape...) Just checked in after a long absence, to see if the alarm problems had been fixed. I was happy to discover this thread. Sounds like the answer is no. I seem to agree with bluegaspode and jmpage2 on most posts in this thread. Shame on Logitech. I've been an executive for software companies, and own my own company now, so I speak from experience when I say that. Some thoughts: - Why is the alarm clock function implemented as client-server, requiring a 7x24 computer to be running to signal an alarm? (Whether or not one should have a server running 7x24 is an irrelevant question - it shouldn't be required for an alarm clock!) - Why does Logitech not have a software quality assurance function and some regression testing? Use this to reproduce bugs and ensure that they get fixed and stay fixed? - Why does it take months and months to address bugs and issue patches, when there seems to be a fine facility for pushing down software to the radios? - Why does the bug reporting and logging system and process seem so informal and disorganized? Is there a list of reported bugs, showing if they are reproduced, and the planned fix date or version? That said, I still enjoy my SB Radio. I still have my $5 alarm clock taped to the top. Just today, as a test, I enabled by SB Radio alarm, and was jolted awake by the loud volume burst prior to alarm fade bug. I was actually happy - the alarm worked today! (Seconds later, my cheap battery alarm clock buzzed) -- davenva davenva's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34191 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Mine had the exact same problem this morning. I think it is being caused by the alarm playlist being set to current playlist. I re-set it to a specific playlist and will see if it works correctly tomorrow morning. -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2;522546 Wrote: Mine had the exact same problem this morning. Which one ? -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Siduhe;522575 Wrote: Do you have an automatic clear and rescan set to run overnight or do you use iTunes or MIP autoupdating? I've had problems in the past with current playlist on alarms when the auto-rescan function has wiped the current playlist overnight. I do have auto rescan going nightly so I don't have to remember to run it manually. I had already suspected that could be a problem as well and was planning on disabling it to test. -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Just wanted to provide an update with some weirdness I saw this morning with my SB Radio after updating to 7.4.2. 1. Was listening to my own content (on 24/7 WHS box) last night. 2. Powered off the SB Radio after using iPeng to change my alarm time to 7:00 AM. 3. This morning got a loud burst of full volume backup alarm sound for a second. 4. Backup alarm sounds. 5. I hit the snooze button and check my server. My server is up, working, SB Web interface is working, everything looks dandy. In other words, there did not appear to be any outage to my network, server, etc, and yet the backup alarm went off instead of my own alarm. 6. After 9 minutes of snooze my regular alarm playlist from my SB Server starts playing. Weird stuff with these alarms still is I guess the point of this. -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Reliability of the alarm got a little better, but mainly due to the server fixes some weeks ago. The new firmware doesn't really fix all possible alarm issues. E.g. if my modem reconnects while the alarm is playing, there is a 50% chance that the (extremely loud) backup alarm is played at connection drop, but in the other 50%, the alarm just stops. It never happened though that the stream is continued after reconnect although the reconnect usually needs only a second or two. Also disappointing that the screwed up interface was not changed at all in 7.4.2. Still no way to see the clock during an alarm without pressing a button. Still no readable clock in the now playing screen. Yeah, I could use Erlands clock applet, but even this got worse for some reason compared to the one I used in 7.4.1. Also still it doesn't respect the language settings. Maybe in another year or so the Radio might live up to my expectations, but with all the nice new devices coming up (Sony Dash etc.), I'm not sure if I want to wait that much longer. -- 0xdeadbeef 0xdeadbeef's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2287 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
0xdeadbeef;522294 Wrote: Reliability of the alarm got a little better, but mainly due to the server fixes some weeks ago. The new firmware doesn't really fix all possible alarm issues. E.g. if my modem reconnects while the alarm is playing, there is a 50% chance that the (extremely loud) backup alarm is played at connection drop, but in the other 50%, the alarm just stops. I queried the cause of the full-volume repeating sound in November. 20 seconds of it is ATTACHED to drive you mad: just let it happen beside you, asleep! Is this the 'backup alarm' that 0xdeadbeef writes about? How can one stop it or replace it with something calmer? It seems to come on at full volume (not just to me) - for 10-60 seconds before alarm (BBC Radio 4) fades in via SMS - non-stop from onset of alarm some days when set for France Inter via MSB - suddenly, within 60 min alarm period, coinciding with a router failure (is the radio or router the culprit?) This mix suggests that the radio firmware kicks this in whenever there is a problem during the alarm period (but not at other times) Logitech support have not met this behaviour, it seems If I have to live with it, how can I change the awful sound? Any help much appreciated Peter +---+ |Filename: jinglejangles2.zip | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9412| +---+ -- peter.s peter.s's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
the changes in 7.4.2 were just to make the alarm reliable (meaning that in case of any error you will hear the loud fallback alarm). Any error means: - the server was of (and didn't send the actual alarm signal) - the network had problems - your internet radio streams has problems. Once you are in fallback mode, the radio doesn't try to get out of it if say the stream comes back. As this is meant to be a fallback and not common I also think its not worth the development time to try to do some fancy stuff, once the fallback was needed. Also you have to know that when setting alarm times you should defenitely do it directly on the radio. Not with iPeng. Not on the WebUI. There are thoughts do disable configuring the alarm anywhere else than on the radio, because it just brings new problems. Nothing on the UI was changed in 7.4.2, nor did anyone claim that there were UI changes, nor is there currently an enhancement request (I am aware of) on bugzilla to change the clock size. There is only a request to make 3rd party developers able to change the UI: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14970 So if you want a bigger clock either vote for this one or create a standalone enhancement request. There is also an enhancement request by the way to make the backup sound fade in: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15534 -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
majones;521171 Wrote: I think it's very unfair that you people with Radios get a firmware update with 7.4.2, but those of us with Duets don't. Do what I do -- I own a radio AND a duet. So I get the best of both worlds. -- eap eap's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32788 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
erland;521025 Wrote: If you use 7.5, you can use the Patch Installer applet in my testing repository to install the Custom alarm window patch Where do you take the patch from ? The one from the bug report for changing alarm windows shouldn't work with all the changed code anymore or am I missing anything ? Anyway -didn't realize you had a Patch Installer Applet ... makes more sense now to think about changed alarm-screens (that people are able to install) again. -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
bluegaspode;521049 Wrote: Where do you take the patch from ? The one from the bug report for changing alarm windows shouldn't work with all the changed code anymore or am I missing anything ? It's not from the bug report, didn't realize there was one already so I've made my own. Or are you talking about Ben's old patch before the alarm rework ? Anyway, you will find the patch here if you like to look at it, it has only been tested towards 7.5: http://erlandapplets.googlecode.com/svn/PatchInstaller/trunk/patches/CustomAlarmWindow/CustomAlarmWindow-1.0.patch Any user that likes to install it, I'd recommend to install it through the Patch Installer applet. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
I meant this bug from you: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14970 I'll added a link and will discuss the code there. -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
majones;521171 Wrote: I think it's very unfair that you people with Radios get a firmware update with 7.4.2, but those of us with Duets don't. Why? The firmware update for the Radio is to fix specific issues with that bit of hardware like the preset buttons not working and some specific alarm problems. The Duet doesn't have the same issues so it doesn't need the same firmware update. -- Siduhe Who am I on 'LAST.FM' (http://www.last.fm/user/siduhe)? -Siduhe Loved Tracks radio got the thumbs up. Feedback included: yeah, it's good... got the odd dodgy track tho...- (c) 'ModelCitizen' (http://www.last.fm/user/Modelcitizen) Siduhe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
I keep thinking that MAJONES posts above are all missing the smiley face. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
eap;520568 Wrote: Wow. I guess I'm lucky. My firmware download AND install happened in about two minutes total time. No glitches whatsoever. It was a thing of beauty. Same here. Apart from having to re-boot Radio to re-join my wireless network it was a flawless upgrade from 7.4.1 to 7.4.2 I'm just waiting for battery stock to arrive in the U.K in time for the spring so I can do some squeezing in the back garden. -- stomans stomans's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=28818 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
upgrade worked flawless for me. -- fragfutter fragfutter's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35184 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
tcutting;520188 Wrote: Maybe erland can figure something out - like allowing one of the custom clock screensavers to over-ride the alarm popup (he has a way to replace the now playing screen). I use the new button setup (volume knob/mute for snooze; back for let alarm continue; power for turn-off alarm) so I would prefer NO popup at all. If you use 7.5, you can use the Patch Installer applet in my testing repository to install the Custom alarm window patch and after that install the Alarm Savers applet which will make it possible to select any screen saver as alarm screen saver. It works for alarm off but I'm not sure there is a global keymapping for snooze yet, so if you use snooze you will have to wait a bit more. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2;520308 Wrote: jump into a time machine and go back about 100 years I'm a bit busy at work right now, but I'll give this a try at the weekend. -- majones majones's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13029 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2;519977 Wrote: I just went ahead and downloaded and installed 7.4.2 on my WHS. Sure enough my radio was prompting me to update to 7.4.2 firmware. Started the 7.4.2 firmware download. An hour ago. It's stuck on 99% downloaded and not progressing now for 30 minutes. Can I risk a hard power cycle or is there some other way to wake it up and let the upgrade complete that won't corrupt the image on it? I had the same issue last night. The Radio firmware download was very slow (about 20 minutes) and then stuck at 99%. Had to pull the power plug to reboot. The firmware downloaded much more quickly the second time (about 2 minutes) and then installed without a hitch. The radio seems to be fine now. -- mlsstl mlsstl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
mlsstl;520510 Wrote: I had the same issue last night. The Radio firmware download was very slow (about 20 minutes) and then stuck at 99%. https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15522 This bug was fixed, but only for 7.5. So this could happen again when you upgrade to 7.5 in the future and then hopefully never again. -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
If you don't want to risk it, don't try this- but I've been running 7.5 for a while now, and my Radio (as well as duet and touch) have been solid as a rock for a few weeks now. And yes, I no longer have the firmware upgrade bug- it was pretty annoying. -- FredFredrickson FredFredrickson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16584 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
This bug was fixed, but only for 7.5. It's probably fixed in 7.4.2 already: the issue was lack of memory. On Radio there was a memory leak (which should be fixed now), on Touch there sometimes were too many services running in the background (TinySBS, Samba). The latter is fixed in 7.5 only. -- Michael ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
mlsstl;520510 Wrote: I had the same issue last night. The Radio firmware download was very slow (about 20 minutes) and then stuck at 99%. Had to pull the power plug to reboot. The firmware downloaded much more quickly the second time (about 2 minutes) and then installed without a hitch. The radio seems to be fine now. Wow. I guess I'm lucky. My firmware download AND install happened in about two minutes total time. No glitches whatsoever. It was a thing of beauty. -- eap eap's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32788 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
So the radio is dependent on an external server helping the radio to function properly. Not to mention dependent on a connection to the Internet in your home. You miss the point. Its not about having a server at all. If you want a reliable (7.4.1) alarm its about if you are able to run a 100% working 24x7 server (and network). And I guess 90% of all people bying a Squeezebox-Radio are not able to create such an environment. Take MySB.com - it hasn't been reliable at all lately (in europe) - yes in the meantime they finally managed to upgrade their server, but this was only two weeks ago. And anyone not into computers won't be able to run its own 100% 24x7 local server (even if you say 'just leave your computer on' - I'm sure my wife one day would have turned it off - not knowing that the alarm then wouldn't work). Finally there were network reliability problems. For instance even if you have a local server your internet stream you use as alarm sound could be failing. And there where MySB.com connection problems - so even when MySB.com was up the radio disconnected within 24 hours (creating a failing alarm) Actually for all this situations the Radio was supposed to have at least a working fallback - unfortunately this didn't work at all. So in the end Logitech until this week was selling a device that is supposed to work as a replacement (not a company) for your $5 clock, but leaving us with a broken/unreliable alarm for 5 months. And thats what jmpage is complaining about. eap;520001 Wrote: (so why is it assumed that there are bugfixes regarding alarms in this version): Because I tracked most of the alarm related bugs (and also helped to solve some of them). MySB-connection reliability causing failing alarms (solved in 7.4.2) http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15444 Master alarm reliability bug (solved in 7.4.2) - http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14870 Alarm through speakers when headphones are plugged (solved, but only in 7.5) http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14742 Alarm and Timezones problems (not solved, but workaround possible) http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14888 Alarm starts with loud volume instead of fading in (solved, but only in 7.5):http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15239 Alarm UI doesn't vanish (solved in 7.4.2) http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14702 Alarm menu problems (solved in 7.4.2) http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14874 -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Ron Olsen;520087 Wrote: The list you posted are changes/bug fixes in SqueezeBox Server. There are also firmware updates for the SqueezeBox Radio. As Andy G pointed out in another thread, the Radio release notes are here: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SqueezePlay_7.4.2_Release_Notes Does 7.4.2 include minium brightness settings when using auto dimming? Or is that 7.5. Its not clear from the release notes if this is included in 7.4.2 or not. -- eap eap's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32788 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Well the loud volume burst prior to alarm fade in is not fixed, guess I have to wait for 7.5 for that problem. I thought the alarm default screen was being changed as well to make the time actually readable when the alarm is going off, but apparently that's not the case either. I can only hope that the next update that fixes some of these other issues doesn't take another four months to issue. -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2;520111 Wrote: I thought the alarm default screen was being changed as well to make the time actually readable when the alarm is going off... I wish. Amazing that such a small detail is one of my main annoyances. There was some talk about allowing 3rd party apps to override the default alarm popup. But not sure that's on the cards any time soon. -- squishy squishy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35390 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
tcutting;519980 Wrote: Go ahead and shut down (may have to remove power though)... it downloads first before it performs install. I've found this happens often on firmware upgrades - but, if you do full turn-off, then turn-on before performing upgrade it works fine. I had this nonsense as well. Oddly the first time it downloaded it was REALLY slow, like % per 30 seconds or something. Pulled power at 99% and then it downloaded quicker. Very odd, and somewhat worrying when a critical thing like firmware updates aren't flawless. :( I hope the update to 7.4.3/7.5 actually works properly. -- Aslak3 (SB 2, SB Boom, SB Radio) Aslak3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31977 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2;519932 Wrote: You are continuing to miss the point. No one should need to leave a computer on 24X7 for an *alarm clock* to work reliably! We personally pay about .09 per kwh for electric and the rates have been going up at a faster level than inflation for the past 5 years now. In VA I pay $0.15/kwH which I thought was on the high side. Pisses me off knowing that my coworker who basically lives across the street pays $0.09/kwH! Different companies service our houses, I called around seeing if I could somehow get his company but I can not. Basically they deregulated the power companies under the thought that they would be self-regulated by consumer choice, however consumers still do not have a choice so not sure what the people were smoking who thought that made sense? I am not for government regulation in most cases however some industries just do not lend themselves to consumer choice and must be regulated to prevent monopolistic practices. Sorry for the rant back on topic: I have been using 7.4.2 for a bit now and while it improves the Alarm reliability for me and I do not have any bugs, I do find the UI horrible for an Alarm. Not sure why the devs do not understand these basic alarm rules: 1. It should be easy to snooze without looking at it. 2. It should NOT be easy to disable 3. Snooze and disable should not be easily confused 4. When I do disable I should have clear indication that the alarm will not go off again in 10 min. Right now using the scroll knob to snooze or disable is not good. Too easy to confuse the two. What I would suggest to the Devs is have the big wheel knob button Snooze and have the Power button disable and NOT use the turning of the knob to do it, then you can just have a popup like you have now but with icons telling the user how to do the two tasks. This would probably require less screen area and allow more room for a LARGER display of the time. Then to meet number 4, use the alarm icon you already have but when the alarm is in snooze mode have the icon blink. When the alarm is disabled have it stop blinking. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
I don't use the big button anymore with 7.4.2. You can hit the volume-button (will act as 'snooze') and the power button (will act as 'alarm off'). These shortcuts are not documented though thats why there is still a menu :) As to the possebility for third party dev to change the popup-UI: Actually I wanted to provide a patch but unfortunately I found a new hobby in the meantime: writing a poker bot (and having a family now) :) So I guess it will take some more time until someone else opts to support the developers. -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
bluegaspode;520185 Wrote: I don't use the big button anymore with 7.4.2. You can hit the volume-button (will act as 'snooze') and the power button (will act as 'alarm off'). These shortcuts are not documented though thats why there is still a menu :) As to the possebility for third party dev to change the popup-UI: Actually I wanted to provide a patch but unfortunately I found a new hobby in the meantime: writing a poker bot (and having a family now) :) So I guess it will take some more time until someone else opts to support the developers. And to power cost: as long as you don't have to pay as much as here in europe (as written before $0,27USD/kWh), why rant *g* ? Thanks for the tip on the buttons, I actually knew about the power button but since it is not documented I felt that was poor. They should REMOVE the ability to scroll and disable, you should only be able to do it ONE way. In many UI it makes sense to allow the user many options but not in this case. Oh and the actually went backwards in UI from 7.4.1. In 7.4.1 the radio would pop up a quick message saying the alarm has been disabled when you press the power button. 7.4.2 it no longer does this. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
tcutting;520188 Wrote: Maybe erland can figure something out - like allowing one of the custom clock screensavers to over-ride the alarm popup (he has a way to replace the now playing screen). I use the new button setup (volume knob/mute for snooze; back for let alarm continue; power for turn-off alarm) so I would prefer NO popup at all. Well, this is something Logitech needs to deliver. We shouldn't have to rely on third party developers (as good as they are) for basic functionality. When the alarm goes off there should be a LARGE time display and some clear instructions on what to do to snooze, disable, or disable and keep playing the music. I don't imagine it would be complicated at all and I could probably write it myself, but it's something Logitech should be addressing. -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2;519480 Wrote: I installed Squeezebox Server 7.4.1 in October right after getting my Squeezebox radio. Me too. I subsequently bought two more Radios so I now have three. They work just fine. For some reason, I didn't decide to start a post on this forum with rude words in capitals. -- majones majones's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13029 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
majones;520292 Wrote: Me too. I subsequently bought two more Radios so I now have three. They work just fine. For some reason, I didn't decide to start a post on this forum with rude words in capitals. Maybe it hadn't occurred to you that your experiences are not the same as other users experiences. Alarm functionality on the radio has been very temperamental for me and obviously many other users and Logitech has absolutely failed to deliver in terms of providing fixes (let alone enhancements) in a timely manner. This is indefensible. The best they can do is promise to do better in the future and actually make it happen. P.S. If the word hell bothers you then I would advise you to jump into a time machine and go back about 100 years when one did not run into such words being used in a public venue. -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Mnyb;519715 Wrote: Post 7.4.2 radio will also support WOL (wake on lan) with alarms, this will make everybody happy. Um - did you really check thats it is doing like you write ? I know that Ben checked in code to do so (and I also see it beeing there). Alas - MY radio nevertheless isn't sending a WOL. Also one other (beta) user said it wasn't working. I'm sure I mentioned this at least twice (on a bug comment and in the alarm thread) but noone reacted. I have to chime in on Marc about the one bug where the alarm-volume starts load and only after a short second starts to fade in (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15239). This Bug has been mentioned in December, was reproducible (50%) by several people in late January (including Marc and me providing logs). Now 7.4.2 is out of the door and the bug gets traction even from the developers (who - what a wonder - are able to reproduce it as well in the end). But people wanting to use alarm (facing this bug as it only happens in certain setups) are still left alone with 7.4.2 :( -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
dsdreamer;519702 Wrote: I used to think computer power consumption was nothing to be concerned about as well, but PGE (Pacific Gas and Electricity) made me change my mind. Tier 1 (Baseline)$0.11877 Tier 2 (101-130% of baseline) $0.13502 Tier 3 (131-200% of baseline) $0.27572 Tier 4 (201-300% of baseline) $0.40577 Tier 5 (Over 300% of baseline) $0.47393 I seem unable to get below Tier 4, so the marginal cost of electricity for me is $0.40577 per kw/h. A traditional desktop PC used as a 'server' will draw 100W ticking over. (A typical desktop computer uses about 65 to 250 watts). There are many purpose-built servers running Atoms for much less, but let's assume you want to reuse your old Pentium from a couple of years back. My annual marginal cost for leaving that computer on for a year is 0.1 * 24 * 365 * 0.40577 = $355.45 2nd grade math tells me I could afford a new SB Touch per year and still be ahead, if I were to dispose of the old iron Pentium and use either the Touch itself or a Shevaplug as the server component of the system. Hogwash. I bet those figures include the monitor. Generally 50% of the wattage is easily tamed by sleeping your monitor. And modern hard drives and processors and video cards generally ramp down when not in use. -- eap eap's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32788 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
dsdreamer;519702 Wrote: I used to think computer power consumption was nothing to be concerned about as well, but PGE (Pacific Gas and Electricity) made me change my mind. Tier 1 (Baseline)$0.11877 Tier 2 (101-130% of baseline) $0.13502 Tier 3 (131-200% of baseline) $0.27572 Tier 4 (201-300% of baseline) $0.40577 Tier 5 (Over 300% of baseline) $0.47393 I seem unable to get below Tier 4, so the marginal cost of electricity for me is $0.40577 per kw/h. .. Am I reading this correctly? You are paying 40 CENTS (US) p/kwh? I pay 5 cents p/kwh. Or maybe I've been misreading my bill, which is entirely possible with how confusing they do their statements. :) -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
eap;519768 Wrote: Hogwash. I bet those figures include the monitor. Generally 50% of the wattage is easily tamed by sleeping your monitor. And modern hard drives and processors and video cards generally ramp down when not in use. Not at all. He said re-purposing an old desktop computer. I used to have an Athlon XP-based machine as my headless server with unused devices disabled in the BIOS. It drew over 90 W at idle -- david_f1976 Living Room: SB3 - Musical Fidelity X-DAC V3 - Marantz PM-66SE -- Tannoy Profile 631SE Bedroom: Boom Dave www.last.fm/user/david_f1976 david_f1976's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15354 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
david_f1976;519778 Wrote: Not at all. He said re-purposing an old desktop computer. I used to have an Athlon XP-based machine as my headless server with unused devices disabled in the BIOS. It drew over 90 W at idle Well that's like using a 1950s car and comparing the gas mileage to today's vehicles. A modern PC or imac shouldn't be a major cause for concern, anymore than any other electronic product in a home (such as an a/v receiver or TV -- which is not 100% off, as it is waiting for a remote command). So unless one goes around unplugging every device not in use, I say just keep the durn thing on. -- eap eap's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32788 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Off Topic: Can power be a concern, sure it can depending on where one lives. So build/buy an Atom based Vortexbox Server so you can leave it on 24/7/365 for under 50 Bucks a year (less then $25 in most places). Or do a SheevaPlug and get down to $10 to $15 a year for 24/7/365. Of course with a library small enough to put on a single USB drive gets one down to the power required only for a Touch and the USB drive (@ 9 to 15 watts depending on USB drive). -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
eap, You are just way out in left (right?) field with this one. 99% of the computers made in the last few years have energy settings that put them into a hibernate mode after a few minutes of inactivity. My iMac hibernates perfectly and when hibernating uses about 3W of power. It takes only a few seconds to wake up so I'm not in any way being hobbled by not having it up and running 24/7. Even though it's an efficient machine, it still uses about 40W of power when it's on (with display off) vs hibernating. So, keeping it on for an extra 16 hours a day would consume roughly .5kW per year or about 150 killowatts per year. This is not a trivial amount of power. Multiply this by 1M homes that currently do NOT keep their PC on 24/7 and you can see that this is a huge increase of WASTED energy for the application of an ALARM CLOCK!! There is no defensible reason that you need a PC on 24/7 for alarms to work on the SB Radio. Logitech is more than capable of modifying the software so that the SB Radio takes its time from NTP (so that it is always accurate) and stores all alarm events completely LOCALLY with no interaction from SB Server or My Squeeze servers. -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2;519899 Wrote: eap, You are just way out in left (right?) field with this one. 99% of the computers made in the last few years have energy settings that put them into a hibernate mode after a few minutes of inactivity. My iMac hibernates perfectly and when hibernating uses about 3W of power. It takes only a few seconds to wake up so I'm not in any way being hobbled by not having it up and running 24/7. Even though it's an efficient machine, it still uses about 40W of power when it's on (with display off) vs hibernating. So, keeping it on for an extra 16 hours a day would consume roughly .5kW per year or about 150 killowatts per year. This is not a trivial amount of power. Multiply this by 1M homes that currently do NOT keep their PC on 24/7 and you can see that this is a huge increase of WASTED energy for the application of an ALARM CLOCK!! There is no defensible reason that you need a PC on 24/7 for alarms to work on the SB Radio. Logitech is more than capable of modifying the software so that the SB Radio takes its time from NTP (so that it is always accurate) and stores all alarm events completely LOCALLY with no interaction from SB Server or My Squeeze servers. 40 watts x 16 hours x 365 days = 233.6 KillowattHours (KwH) 233.6 x $.10 (I'll give you 10 cents per KwH which is a lot) = $23.00 per year. I'm not gonna cry over $23.00 a year (do you unplug your a/v receivers and TVs at night)? They eat up electricity doing nothing too. By the way, I think (but I'm not sure) that there is a way to have squeezebox wake up your PC from hibernate mode (if not this firmware, then new firmware). I thought you had it OFF completely. If you hibernate, there might be another way. -- eap eap's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32788 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2, eap: You are not on the same page ;) There are errors in 7.4.1 with regards to alarm stability. It has been dealt with in 7.4.2. Forget about running a server just for the alarm. Run it for other reasons. -- Muele BR Mogens 1 Radio, 2 Controllers, 2 Receivers, 1 Squeezeplay. Served by an old 800 mhz IBM T21 Thinkpad. Muele's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21310 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
eap;519692 Wrote: Its not that you leave a computer on 24/7 in order to have a reliable alarm clock, its that typical use of a computer could (nay, even should) contemplate 24/7 hour use of that computer. So the alarm clock is then just a bonus you get on top of that. I had my computer on 24/7 before I had any squeezebox product. So no change in behavior here. I am stunned at the apparent stubborn unwillingness of many here to spend a relatively small amount of money towards electrical costs (which would be many times less than a squeezebox over the course of a year), in order to have the convenience of on the demand Internet access, not to mention no worries over having to use the less worthy mysqueezebox.com . Why do we have fios and cable at blazing speeds if we don't leave computers hooked up to it 24/7? Has this Political Correctedness and green stuff really gone this far? When did leaving a computer on 24/7 become such a hardship? What is driving this ridiculous fear? Who wants to wait for boot up time every morning? FWIW, I agree entirely. But I doubt many more will. I've had a computer on 24hrs a day for years. It's a print server, file server, backup server (to remote and local hosts), media server, remote access server, and of course it runs SBS. It's a low-power VIA board, with a bunch of HDDs. It likely adds about £30-40 a year to my electric bill, but it is certainly worth it for the connivence of having everything just there all the time. There are loads of options for reducing the power usage further; ShivaPlug, atom boards, VIA boards, Green HDDs, etc, etc. -- Aslak3 (SB 2, SB Boom, SB Radio) Aslak3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31977 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
eap;519910 Wrote: 40 watts x 16 hours x 365 days = 233.6 KillowattHours (KwH) 233.6 x $.10 (I'll give you 10 cents per KwH which is a lot) = $23.00 per year. I'm not gonna cry over $23.00 a year (do you unplug your a/v receivers and TVs at night)? They eat up electricity doing nothing too. By the way, I think (but I'm not sure) that there is a way to have squeezebox wake up your PC from hibernate mode (if not this firmware, then new firmware). I thought you had it OFF completely. If you hibernate, there might be another way. You are continuing to miss the point. No one should need to leave a computer on 24X7 for an *alarm clock* to work reliably! I do run a server 24X7 but my parents, brother, sister and 99% of my friends have absolutely no interesting in doing this just so that they know they can wake up reliably in the morning when a $5 alarm clock is perfectly capable of doing the same job. And for the record .10 is a pretty LOW rate for electricity. Many parts of the country are higher than that and prices are quite a bit higher in much of europe and asia. We personally pay about .09 per kwh for electric and the rates have been going up at a faster level than inflation for the past 5 years now. -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2;519932 Wrote: I do run a server 24X7 but my parents, brother, sister and 99% of my friends have absolutely no interesting in doing this just so that they know they can wake up reliably in the morning when a $5 alarm clock is perfectly capable of doing the same job. Then they should get the $5 alarm clock. Until recently my $20 travel alarm clock sat right next to my SB Radio, and that's what I used for alarms because that's what I preferred, even though the SB alarm works fine for me. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2;519932 Wrote: You are continuing to miss the point. No one should need to leave a computer on 24X7 for an *alarm clock* to work reliably! 1kwh in germany costs about 0.20(Euro)Cent, so 0.27(US)Cent. So much for 'cheap' ;) ... Anyway - jmpage - SB-Server 7.4.2 (final) is available for download already so it should be soon pushed via MySB.com too (if not done so already). Your biggest alarm woes should be gone with this version (even without a 24x7 server). -- bluegaspode 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 1xSB-Radio Server (7.4.1) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. Secondary 7.4 Server on Debianized Buffalo Linkstation LS-CHL. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
aubuti;519953 Wrote: Then they should get the $5 alarm clock. Until recently my $20 travel alarm clock sat right next to my SB Radio, and that's what I used for alarms because that's what I preferred, even though the SB alarm works fine for me. Yes, by all means Logitech should stop selling to people that aren't computer geniuses because they haven't implemented basic internal alarm capabilities in the SB Radio that aren't dependent on an external server helping the alarm to function properly. Brilliant. If you were responsible for their business plan they wouldn't be in business. -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
jmpage2;519958 Wrote: Yes, by all means Logitech should stop selling to people that aren't computer geniuses because they haven't implemented basic internal alarm capabilities in the SB Radio that aren't dependent on an external server helping the alarm to function properly. Brilliant. If you were responsible for their business plan they wouldn't be in business. It is also a radio. The internet radio does not function at all without a server somewhere (either in your own home or logitech's data center). So the radio is dependent on an external server helping the radio to function properly. Not to mention dependent on a connection to the Internet in your home. So what is your point? If you want a plain basic alarm clock that doesn't need help -- fine. But that's not what Logitech is selling. Its selling something much more, that requires server dependency for just about all of its functions. -- eap eap's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32788 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
bluegaspode;519957 Wrote: 1kwh in germany costs about 0.20(Euro)Cent, so 0.27(US)Cent. So much for 'cheap' ;) ... Anyway - jmpage - SB-Server 7.4.2 (final) is available for download already so it should be soon pushed via MySB.com too (if not done so already). Your biggest alarm woes should be gone with this version (even without a 24x7 server). I just went ahead and downloaded and installed 7.4.2 on my WHS. Sure enough my radio was prompting me to update to 7.4.2 firmware. Started the 7.4.2 firmware download. An hour ago. It's stuck on 99% downloaded and not progressing now for 30 minutes. Can I risk a hard power cycle or is there some other way to wake it up and let the upgrade complete that won't corrupt the image on it? -- jmpage2 jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
Re: [SlimDevices: Radio] Squeezebox 7.4.2 - what the HELL Logitech?
Go ahead and shut down (may have to remove power though)... it downloads first before it performs install. I've found this happens often on firmware upgrades - but, if you do full turn-off, then turn-on before performing upgrade it works fine. -- tcutting tcutting's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17402 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75541 ___ Radio mailing list Radio@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/radio
