Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
I once asked an expert in measurements a question about a related topic. His reply included the phrase spurious accuracy as a term used in his field. I think it boils down to question below. At some point, it's just not important. On Saturday, Oct 18, 2008, at 23:50 Asia/Tokyo, Wayne Fugitt wrote: The real important question, is, ... What difference does it make ? -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
Spurious defined: Of false or erroneously attributed origin. Also, forged: of a deceitful nature or quality. So spurious accuracy means erroneous or deceitful. Faith G. - Original Message - From: Jonathan B. Britten jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:37 AM Subject: Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing I once asked an expert in measurements a question about a related topic. His reply included the phrase spurious accuracy as a term used in his field. I think it boils down to question below. At some point, it's just not important. On Saturday, Oct 18, 2008, at 23:50 Asia/Tokyo, Wayne Fugitt wrote: The real important question, is, ... What difference does it make ? -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
Well I hope it never happens because 'they' will find a way of charging us for it and regulating etc., so 'they' can somehow make money out of it. Either that, or 'they' will stop us using it altogether like the poor bloke with the Rife machine! You must be a tough nut to crack is all I can say. Surely if you are sick one minute, then - take CS - then you are well, the logical conclusion would be that the CS made you well. No brainer as far as I can see. dee indi wrote: I presume CS is helping get well, but if the only proof I have is that I am getting well, then there is much more to be discovered before I can have it witnessed, written up, and submitted it to the medical journals. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
with you all the way Jonathan! dee Jonathan B. Britten wrote: I once asked an expert in measurements a question about a related topic. His reply included the phrase spurious accuracy as a term used in his field. I think it boils down to question below. At some point, it's just not important. On Saturday, Oct 18, 2008, at 23:50 Asia/Tokyo, Wayne Fugitt wrote: The real important question, is, ... What difference does it make ? -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSMeasuring or Guessing
No way! Just as pig headed and arrogant for sure, but Mike Monet knew something about science, scientific method, and logic... Dan -Original Message- From: cking...@nycap.rr.com [mailto:cking...@nycap.rr.com] Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 5:56 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing Hmmm... Is indi in reality Mike Monet? Sounds like him. Remember? Chuck de ja fu - The feeling that somewhere, somehow you've been hit in the head like this before. On 10/20/2008 12:39:02 PM, indi (indi.sha...@gmail.com) wrote: On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:39:24 -0500 Ruth Bertella berte...@lfdcbham.com wrote: Wow... now we are crazy, irresponsible, loonies because we believe in CS?!?! Proof or no proof, WHO CARES... WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? WHY ALL THE CAPS, LOL? Seriously, it may make a vast difference if one cares about the well-being of people in general. Like my Mother, for whom the doctor said so is right up there with it's in the bible. Or my best friend, dead now because the doctors were the authority, and I with my silver was crazy and probably experiencing a placebo effect. Yes, I'd like to see a community of caring people who are not anti-intellectuals attempt to nail down enough credible, scientifically-oriented evidence to make a compelling case that could then be taken seriously enough to prompt some federal grant for further investigation which might yield some compelling scientific facts. I'd like to see people come away from the doctor's office with knowledge of CS rather than a prescription for some corrosive chemical concoction which will do harm for which they will require another visit, another prescription -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSOlder CS
Hi Ruth, What do you store yours in? kathryn On Oct 20, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Ruth Bertella wrote: Hey Faith, I have used my homemade CS I had stored for 4+ years and it has worked as well as my freshly made CS. I do this once in a while to try to see how long the effectiveness lasts, and to rotate my stock so to speak. For what it's worth, my old stuff worked as well as the fresh did for me and other family members and friends. I always keep LOTS (sorry no scientific numbers as to how much) on hand, some of it several years old, as back-up in case of emergencies. It's very comforting to know that my 4+ year old CS works as well as my fresh (in my experience - more years in other peoples experience) in case I need it down the road. Hope this helps some. Ruth - Original Message - From: Faith Gagne To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: CSblue moons revisited Dear indi: Thank you very much for your efforts. I think, after all, that you are right about anecdotal evidence. I appreciate the fact that you are discussing this. Truthfully, I have wondered about the condition of CS when stored for a while, and wonder how much it has changed, and what its present condition is. I personally cannot afford to get lab analysis on older CS. I wish I had some guidelines as to how long to keep it before chucking it and making some new. Thanks again. Faith G. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing- or calculating
On Oct 20, 2008, at 2:55 PM, indi wrote: On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:13:43 -0500 Wayne Fugitt cwf...@fugitt.com wrote: How many times have you calculated ppm ? ( Instead of guessing ) What do you have then ? A combination of all the junk or one item only ? I am stuck with guessing, at present -- like everyone else here. However, that is completely beside the point I was trying to make. The absence of hard data does not magically convert anecdotal evidence into data. Some people certainly have been a bit touchy about that, but this is not supposed to be an emotional issue -- it's a simple discussion of what is known versus what is presumed, a distinction I originally *presumed* we all were qualified to make (I do know better now, LOL). The question is, do you calculate the ppm? You don't have to guess much, and if you prefer, you can do the calculations for error resolution too, then you know exactly how much guessing you are doing, or as they say, parameters of error fall within plus or minus X percent . If X percent is low, it is not much of a guess, if it is high, then whoa, look out. Might as well throw mud at the wall. Faradays Law describes the electrolysis very well. Distilled water for laboratory use is the good enough for labs, so it is by definition good enough for us. I do not take that for granted, I check the conductivity of the water first anyway. Distilled water for lab use should have nothing else in it except water, and it should not conduct any electricity, so the EC reading should be zero. Mine usually is not zero, but very close, within a few parts per billion. After it sits for a while, the EC reading climbs a little, as the distilled water absorbs some gases from the air. It is a very sensitive measurement for my type of purpose. My own experiments show that for me, consistently, the amount of silver deposited in the water during electrolysis as calculated by Faraday's Law is the same as the EC reading taken immediately in the water as it is working. All the hard science I learned is based on first observation, then explored via calculations and experimentation. We are all of us here doing our own science that is as good or better than most of what passes in the medical field, what with all the abuses that occur there. I am glad to hear that you are feeling benefit from your experiments. Best Wishes, Kathryn -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[List Owner] Standards of proof...
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:49:17 -0700 Malcolm s...@asis.com wrote: Well and good! Mike Monet was an interesting and knowledgeable electrical engineer, with an enquiring mind and good math skills, was sometimes upset when people didn't see it his way (the ONLY way). You are pushing for the opposite, in that you recognize humans, and the conditions in/by which they try to find things out, vary widely. OTOH, The double-blind cross-controlled experimental study as mandated by the FDA and loved by big pharma is just Marvy, except it assumes we're all just the same, or should be if we know what's good for us. At the sledgehammer level, sure. Most of their meds are in the 5 to 500 mg level. Compared to CS at 10 to 20 ppm that is a sledgehammer for sure. Another flaw in their protocols is that they assume testing a thousand people for one year equals testing 100 people for ten years; taint so M'Gee. One of the virtues of the so-called anecdotal method, besides it makes for good stories, is that the evidence - oh, sorry, experience - is collected over much time and many different situations; it's 'small time' and we can hassle it out ourselves. We don't have the deus ex authoritas of political or scientific regulation stifling our chance to find out for ourselves what works and how it best works for us. Each. Take care, avoid arcing! Malcolm Oh, there's plenty wrong with the FDA's requirements, no doubt about it. But the cause is corruption, not ignorance. The double blind cross-controlled study method is definitely a very good way to acquire data, if it is done honestly and without employing ridiculous loopholes (as you pointed out, 100 people x 10 years does not equal 1000 people x 1 year). At this point, it would be great if there were a study following users of CS, since there are so many of us. It wouldn't be terribly hard to do, just define some basic control parameters, find appropriate subjects and medically monitor them. But I suppose Big Pharma is afraid of those results. :) As for fear of regulation, that is really a moot point. What are they going to do, raid our homes and confiscate our generators? Make silver a controlled substance? That'd be awfully hard to do... indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[List Owner] Standards of proof...
indi wrote: On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:06:47 -0400 Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com wrote: Any arcing, whether from the HVAC or from lightning, will product nitrous oxide and nitric oxide. The amounts in air are minute from lightning, but can be quite high concentration if produced in arcing with HVAC method. Thus the amount of nitrate produced will be very small if from lightning. Thanks. I thought maybe there was something more exotic and potentially harmful of which I was unaware. Basically then, the danger is just formation of NO2 from oxidation of nitric oxide? Not quite sure what you mean by that. Arcing produces both NO2 (nitrogen dioxide) and NO (nitrogen oxide). When either contact water, they form acids. NO2 forms nitric acid, and NO forms nitrous acid. If silver is present it will produce silver nitrate or silver nitrite. If I'm not mistaken one can taste and smell that, so a person wouldn't be likely to ingest much. Well, first we are talking very low ppm, or even ppb, and I am not sure what the threshold of taste is for the acids. But if it reacts with any silver, then you no longer have the acid, but a silver salt, which has much lower taste, so I am not sure if you could taste it or not. It would be like a couple of gains of salt in a glass of water. Marshall Cheers, indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSAnecdotal versus laboratory testing methods
indi wrote: On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:29:47 +0100 Dee d...@deetroy.org wrote: In fact, your question is surely more relevant to most of us. Unfortunately, clinical double-blind studies are expensive to conduct, and most of them are financed by companies who make their money from patent medicines, or researchers working with grant money, so they have a powerful incentive to skew the results of these studies (it's either re-qualify for the grant money or get this product approved), and also often to avoid head-to-head comparisons of (for example) CS and vancomycin. But the corruption rampant in the pharmaceutical industry should not be read as an indictment of scientific method. The problem is Big Pharma doing science theater rather than real science. For instance the clinical studies *did* catch the big problems with Vioxx, and the manufacturer simply covered it up. This sort of thing happens all the time in the pharmaceutical industry. So perhaps it is not unreasonable to consider anecdotal evidence more trustworthy than information from the FDA or Upjohn, but it's still not as reliable as the scientific method. That correlation does not imply causation has been more than adequately proven. OTOH, where there is smoke there is fire does work a lot of times, too. :) A very good example of this, with full FDA support, is the formulating of the control. Every wonder why they often report some bad side effect of a drug, and then claim that occurance with the medicine is no greater than it is with a sugar pill. Reason is that it is a lie. They don't test with a sugar pill normally. Instead the companies are allowed to formulate the placebo to make it supposedly indistinguishable from what is being tested. Then the FDA allows the company to call it a sugar pill, suggesting that the average person is too dumb to know what a control or placebo is. So the placebo will not only mimic the color and texture of the medicine, but they will add compounds to cause the same side effects. For instance, lets say that they know that the drug causes nausea in some people. Then they would add something, like syrup of ipecac, to make the placebo nauseate as well. This does make some sense for a double blind study, where you do not want the person to have any hint of which is the drug, and which is the placebo. But there are two problems with this. First they often add stuff that makes the condition worse. Lets say they are testing a medicine for headaches. But it can also cause stomach upsets. So they add something that not only causes nausea but headaches as well. The the final result will be that the medicine, even if it does absolutely nothing, will from the placebo effect or even no effect, score higher than the placebo, which is formulated to cause the actual problem that the medicine suppose to cure. Then according to FDA rules, instead of advertising that their medicine worked better and had fewer side effects than their placebo of say rat poison, they are allowed to say it performed better with less side effects than a sugar pill. Of course they never make this claim for diabetes medicine, for them they say a control or placebo; it seems that diabetics are the only group the FDA believes knows what a control or placebo is. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSMeasuring or Guessing ( A New Formula )
Morning Kathryn, At 09:01 AM 10/21/2008, you wrote: You got my attentions this morning. grin I am stuck with guessing, at present -- like everyone else here. Some people certainly have been a bit touchy about that, but this is not supposed to be an emotional issue -- it's a simple you are doing, or as they say, parameters of error fall within plus or minus X percent . If X percent is low, it is not much of a guess, if it is high, then whoa, look out. Might as well throw mud at the wall. OK. The new Formula will tell us.. The percent Guessing The percent Facts The percent Theory The percent Accuracy in everything we do Finally, It would tell us What percent Idiot we are What percent Genius we are What would you pay for that ? We would become so engrossed in this we would all forget how to make CS ! I have always said, It you can do it with a pencil and pad, I can write a program to do it. Of course Marshall can too, as well as many others. Once I became so tired of doing ppm calculations, I wrote a program to do it. Then I wrote one, Backwards ppm Calculations. Can't remember why I did that and what all it did. As I have said, People Worry too much. Me included. Never even been concerned about the ppm of my CS. When it kills wasps, bees, snakes, alligators, and little critters, what else could I want ? Wayne Modern Thinking Primitive Logic -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
On Oct 20, 2008, at 11:39 AM, indi wrote: Seriously, it may make a vast difference if one cares about the well-being of people in general. Like my Mother, for whom the doctor said so is right up there with it's in the bible. Or my best friend, dead now because the doctors were the authority, and I with my silver was crazy and probably experiencing a placebo effect. Yes, I'd like to see a community of caring people who are not anti-intellectuals attempt to nail down enough credible, scientifically-oriented evidence to make a compelling case that could then be taken seriously enough to prompt some federal grant for further investigation which might yield some compelling scientific facts. There has been quite a bit of research by various universities. A compelling case that could be taken seriously by whom? is the question. There are those who have a vested interest in promoting their own products to the exclusion of all others, and they are well funded and have quite a bit of political power. There has been a case made for ongoing corruption in various federal agencies, several of which would not withstand much scientific scrutiny. It all seems to do with money, and who is going to be making a bundle off of what product, and through supression of competitor's products. This world is not much fun for us pollyanna types. Best Wishes, Kathryn -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing ( A New Formula )
Morning Wayne, (Beatific smile) On Oct 21, 2008, at 9:57 AM, Wayne Fugitt wrote: Morning Kathryn, At 09:01 AM 10/21/2008, you wrote: You got my attentions this morning. grin I am stuck with guessing, at present -- like everyone else here. Some people certainly have been a bit touchy about that, but this is not supposed to be an emotional issue -- it's a simple you are doing, or as they say, parameters of error fall within plus or minus X percent . If X percent is low, it is not much of a guess, if it is high, then whoa, look out. Might as well throw mud at the wall. OK. The new Formula will tell us.. The percent Guessing The percent Facts The percent Theory The percent Accuracy in everything we do Finally, It would tell us What percent Idiot we are What percent Genius we are What would you pay for that ? Now that is priceless! thanks for the laugh there. We would become so engrossed in this we would all forget how to make CS ! I have always said, It you can do it with a pencil and pad, I can write a program to do it. Of course Marshall can too, as well as many others. Once I became so tired of doing ppm calculations, I wrote a program to do it. Then I wrote one, Backwards ppm Calculations. Can't remember why I did that and what all it did. As I have said, People Worry too much. Me included. That is a fact. Not worrying is a good habit to get into, imho. Still working on it. Never even been concerned about the ppm of my CS. When it kills wasps, bees, snakes, alligators, and little critters, what else could I want ? Yeah, it is all an academic exercise, since it works well and does what we need it to. Take care,Kathryn Wayne Modern Thinking Primitive Logic -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[List Owner] Standards of proof...
It may not be easy, but it has happened before On Oct 21, 2008, at 9:28 AM, indi wrote: As for fear of regulation, that is really a moot point. What are they going to do, raid our homes and confiscate our generators? Make silver a controlled substance? That'd be awfully hard to do... indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing- or calculating
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:01:13 -0500 Clayton Family clay...@skypoint.com wrote: The question is, do you calculate the ppm? You don't have to guess much, and if you prefer, you can do the calculations for error resolution too, then you know exactly how much guessing you are doing, or as they say, parameters of error fall within plus or minus X percent . If X percent is low, it is not much of a guess, if it is high, then whoa, look out. Might as well throw mud at the wall. Faradays Law describes the electrolysis very well. Distilled water for laboratory use is the good enough for labs, so it is by definition good enough for us. I do not take that for granted, I check the conductivity of the water first anyway. Distilled water for lab use should have nothing else in it except water, and it should not conduct any electricity, so the EC reading should be zero. Mine usually is not zero, but very close, within a few parts per billion. After it sits for a while, the EC reading climbs a little, as the distilled water absorbs some gases from the air. It is a very sensitive measurement for my type of purpose. My own experiments show that for me, consistently, the amount of silver deposited in the water during electrolysis as calculated by Faraday's Law is the same as the EC reading taken immediately in the water as it is working. All the hard science I learned is based on first observation, then explored via calculations and experimentation. We are all of us here doing our own science that is as good or better than most of what passes in the medical field, what with all the abuses that occur there. I am glad to hear that you are feeling benefit from your experiments. Best Wishes, Kathryn Hi Kathryn and Hi list, I do not have faith that one can either guess or calculate PPM with any degree of accuracy. There are just too many unknowns. I notice a lot of people (not you, AFAIK) have made a lot of assumptions about me due to my skepticism regarding acceptance of certain ideas. I believe there has been an oh yeah, well what's *your* answer, smarty pants! type of reaction. :) But I really do not claim to have those answers yet, nor do I feel that having them is a prerequisite for pointing out others do not have them when they (no doubt inadvertently) falsely claim they do. My indicator at this time is not scientific at all, frankly -- I go by whether or not I feel better, what it tastes like, and how much CS does it take to keep my symptoms at bay. For instance, I believe that my most recent batch is weak, because I have to drink at least four ounces twice per day to keep my symptoms from reappearing (a normal batch will do that with four ounces once per day). This is not a bit scientific, of course (all sorts of things could affect the dose required), but then my primary goal *is* to get better, with being able to explain precisely what the medicine is running a distant, but still important, second. The fall and winter is my economic lean time, but in the spring I hope to begin accumulating equipment and chemicals so that I can do more proper testing. I am not remotely qualified, mind you, but my plan is to at least have a shot at reaching some meaningful numbers. Obviously, an atomic absorption spectrometer is beyond my means, but there are some simpler methods for getting decent numbers (not as simple as an EC meter and laser pointer though). Also, if certain business arrangements go well (which is not at all in the bag yet) I may gain access to some funding for equipment by spring. And if all else fails, I should at least have money for sending samples out to an established lab. Meantime, I do not want to get caught up in data which is unlikely to be accurate (and if that makes me arrogant, as at least one person here has claimed, oh well...mark me with a big A then). There are degrees of accuracy, of course, with absolute being unavailable (and Ode has pointed this out before). However, my close enough standard requires at least accounting for all elements present as a base. Otherwise, we wind up with more questions than answers, don't you agree? One rather obvious example is that many people have been shocked to learn the types of indoor pollutants their homes contain -- how can we be sure there is nothing but pure air in the environment in which we operate? From carpets, upholstery, and wall coverings that release various gasses, to radon pollution, it's a huge question mark whenever we do work like this in the home. When you unseal a container at home, what are you exposing it to? And what is the effect? And then we supply electrical current, which is an excellent catalyst, LOL... Okay, I'll admit I'm a bit neurotic, but I'm also quite right about this. I just want to know what *is* in that solution. Otherwise, what good is an EC meter reading? Until I can determine that, I just don't see much value in either guessing or calculating PPM, because the
Re: CS[List Owner] Standards of proof...
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:30:36 -0400 Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com wrote: Not quite sure what you mean by that. Arcing produces both NO2 (nitrogen dioxide) and NO (nitrogen oxide). When either contact water, they form acids. NO2 forms nitric acid, and NO forms nitrous acid. If silver is present it will produce silver nitrate or silver nitrite. Well, first we are talking very low ppm, or even ppb, and I am not sure what the threshold of taste is for the acids. But if it reacts with any silver, then you no longer have the acid, but a silver salt, which has much lower taste, so I am not sure if you could taste it or not. It would be like a couple of gains of salt in a glass of water. Thanks for the clarification, you raise some good points. Arcing is pretty easy to avoid, though. I used to work a lot on old vacuum tube powered audio circuits (though the max voltage in those was generally 600V or so), so I know a bit about that. indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSOlder CS
Hey Katherine, Almost all of my CS is stored in the gallon jugs my distilled water comes in. I also have four 1/2 gallon clear jugs that I bought orange juice in (thicker plastic than the DW jugs and with a handle), and I have four 1/2 gallon glass canning jars with plastic lids, and a few in the thicker 20 oz. size bottles (like Gatorade and such comes in). All but one of these smaller ones are relatively fresh, as I use them when I'm on the go. All the others range from relatively fresh to almost five years old. All of the CS in all of these, except for one, remain clear. A lot of them are fresh, several are getting close to five years old, several are anywhere in between. The one slightly yellow one turned color after only a couple of days of when I made it - it is now almost three years old and is still only slightly yellow, same as when it was practically fresh. This is one of the juice jugs, so I'm thinking I didn't sterilize this particular jug as well as I did the others. The few times I've had any turn slightly yellow, I usually go ahead and use it (internally and externally), but I wanted to keep one back then to see if it got any darker. So far, no change. Hope this helps! Ruth - Original Message - From: Clayton Family To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:40 AM Subject: Re: CSOlder CS Hi Ruth, What do you store yours in? kathryn On Oct 20, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Ruth Bertella wrote: Hey Faith, I have used my homemade CS I had stored for 4+ years and it has worked as well as my freshly made CS. I do this once in a while to try to see how long the effectiveness lasts, and to rotate my stock so to speak. For what it's worth, my old stuff worked as well as the fresh did for me and other family members and friends. I always keep LOTS (sorry no scientific numbers as to how much) on hand, some of it several years old, as back-up in case of emergencies. It's very comforting to know that my 4+ year old CS works as well as my fresh (in my experience - more years in other peoples experience) in case I need it down the road. Hope this helps some. Ruth - Original Message - From: Faith Gagne To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: CSblue moons revisited Dear indi: Thank you very much for your efforts. I think, after all, that you are right about anecdotal evidence. I appreciate the fact that you are discussing this. Truthfully, I have wondered about the condition of CS when stored for a while, and wonder how much it has changed, and what its present condition is. I personally cannot afford to get lab analysis on older CS. I wish I had some guidelines as to how long to keep it before chucking it and making some new. Thanks again. Faith G. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:16:22 -0500 Clayton Family clay...@skypoint.com wrote: On Oct 20, 2008, at 11:39 AM, indi wrote: Seriously, it may make a vast difference if one cares about the well-being of people in general. Like my Mother, for whom the doctor said so is right up there with it's in the bible. Or my best friend, dead now because the doctors were the authority, and I with my silver was crazy and probably experiencing a placebo effect. Yes, I'd like to see a community of caring people who are not anti-intellectuals attempt to nail down enough credible, scientifically-oriented evidence to make a compelling case that could then be taken seriously enough to prompt some federal grant for further investigation which might yield some compelling scientific facts. There has been quite a bit of research by various universities. A compelling case that could be taken seriously by whom? is the question. Well, the FDA would be a really nice start. Or the equivalent agencies in other countries. I think I've read some things that indicate that Sweden and Australia may already be heading toward acceptance of CS (short on time right now, I could be naming the wrong countries). The World Health Organization would be really great. :) There are those who have a vested interest in promoting their own products to the exclusion of all others, and they are well funded and have quite a bit of political power. There has been a case made for ongoing corruption in various federal agencies, several of which would not withstand much scientific scrutiny. It all seems to do with money, and who is going to be making a bundle off of what product, and through supression of competitor's products. This world is not much fun for us pollyanna types. Best Wishes, Kathryn True, but as we approach total melt-down, and more and more people have to do without medical care, it seems likely to me that eventually we will see some reforms. The U.S. appears to be approaching the end of a very long and sophisticated game of Monopoly. When there's no-one left to fleece, what will they do? Cheers, indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[List Owner] Standards of proof...
Well in the case of Rife, I read that they actually did just that and set fire to the building too! dee indi wrote: On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:49:17 -0700 Malcolm s...@asis.com wrote: As for fear of regulation, that is really a moot point. What are they going to do, raid our homes and confiscate our generators? Make silver a controlled substance? That'd be awfully hard to do... indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSAnecdotal versus laboratory testing methods
Scary, isn't it? dee Marshall Dudley wrote: i Then according to FDA rules, instead of advertising that their medicine worked better and had fewer side effects than their placebo of say rat poison, they are allowed to say it performed better with less side effects than a sugar pill. Of course they never make this claim for diabetes medicine, for them they say a control or placebo; it seems that diabetics are the only group the FDA believes knows what a control or placebo is. Marshall -- -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
too true Kathryn! dee Clayton Family wrote: On Oct 20, 2008, at 11:39 AM, indi wrote: It all seems to do with money, and who is going to be making a bundle off of what product, and through supression of competitor's products. This world is not much fun for us pollyanna types. Best Wishes, Kathryn -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
On Oct 21, 2008, at 12:13 PM, indi wrote: On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:16:22 -0500 Clayton Family clay...@skypoint.com wrote: On Oct 20, 2008, at 11:39 AM, indi wrote: Seriously, it may make a vast difference if one cares about the well-being of people in general. Like my Mother, for whom the doctor said so is right up there with it's in the bible. Or my best friend, dead now because the doctors were the authority, and I with my silver was crazy and probably experiencing a placebo effect. Yes, I'd like to see a community of caring people who are not anti-intellectuals attempt to nail down enough credible, scientifically-oriented evidence to make a compelling case that could then be taken seriously enough to prompt some federal grant for further investigation which might yield some compelling scientific facts. There has been quite a bit of research by various universities. A compelling case that could be taken seriously by whom? is the question. Well, the FDA would be a really nice start. Or the equivalent agencies in other countries. I think I've read some things that indicate that Sweden and Australia may already be heading toward acceptance of CS (short on time right now, I could be naming the wrong countries). The World Health Organization would be really great. :) The FDA is one of the agencies I was referring to in my paragraph below. They seem to have one company that they are not blocking in developing certain silver applications, but are definitely hostile to many others. I heard about one CS supplier that was raided by them with guns drawn, etc, and they confiscated the silver solutions that were packaged for shipment. One would think they were after terrorists, the way they behaved. The IRS is another agency that has gone off half cocked in a similar fashion, breaking many laws in the process as well. The World Health Org has it's own prejudices. You could check in to the abuses by baby formula makers, and also abuses by Big Pharma in testing vaccines on the poor of the world. Not saying it is their fault, but the decisions they make affect lots of people, even if they are well meaning, there is some harm done. There are those who have a vested interest in promoting their own products to the exclusion of all others, and they are well funded and have quite a bit of political power. There has been a case made for ongoing corruption in various federal agencies, several of which would not withstand much scientific scrutiny. It all seems to do with money, and who is going to be making a bundle off of what product, and through supression of competitor's products. This world is not much fun for us pollyanna types. Best Wishes, Kathryn True, but as we approach total melt-down, and more and more people have to do without medical care, it seems likely to me that eventually we will see some reforms. The U.S. appears to be approaching the end of a very long and sophisticated game of Monopoly. When there's no-one left to fleece, what will they do? I guess they will tell us to click our heels together three times and chant There's no place like home . They already tell people their illnesses are all psychological with no basis in physical problem, so it is not too far to go. And they say WE are the crazy ones- right! -Kathryn Cheers, indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[List Owner] Standards of proof...
indi wrote: On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:30:36 -0400 Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com wrote: Not quite sure what you mean by that. Arcing produces both NO2 (nitrogen dioxide) and NO (nitrogen oxide). When either contact water, they form acids. NO2 forms nitric acid, and NO forms nitrous acid. If silver is present it will produce silver nitrate or silver nitrite. Well, first we are talking very low ppm, or even ppb, and I am not sure what the threshold of taste is for the acids. But if it reacts with any silver, then you no longer have the acid, but a silver salt, which has much lower taste, so I am not sure if you could taste it or not. It would be like a couple of gains of salt in a glass of water. Thanks for the clarification, you raise some good points. Arcing is pretty easy to avoid, though. I used to work a lot on old vacuum tube powered audio circuits (though the max voltage in those was generally 600V or so), so I know a bit about that. indi Yes it is, but it may not be that simple. Ol Bob reported elevated oxides of nitrogen with the cone method of HVAC generation, without arcing. Probably due to corona discharge, which is a bit more difficult to identify and control. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
I agree with Kathryn, It might become illegal to be well without any supervision of the government regulated Pharma Companies, or their physicians. Seriously I appreciate the freedom we still have to share our experiences via the internet. I hope this freedom will not become a regulated system. M - Original Mess age - From: Clayton Familymailto:clay...@skypoint.com To: silver-list@eskimo.commailto:silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:16 AM Subject: Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing On Oct 20, 2008, at 11:39 AM, indi wrote: Seriously, it may make a vast difference if one cares about the well-being of people in general. Like my Mother, for whom the doctor said so is right up there with it's in the bible. Or my best friend, dead now because the doctors were the authority, and I with my silver was crazy and probably experiencing a placebo effect. Yes, I'd like to see a community of caring people who are not anti-intellectuals attempt to nail down enough credible, scientifically-oriented evidence to make a compelling case that could then be taken seriously enough to prompt some federal grant for further investigation which might yield some compelling scientific facts. There has been quite a bit of research by various universities. A compelling case that could be taken seriously by whom? is the question. There are those who have a vested interest in promoting their own products to the exclusion of all others, and they are well funded and have quite a bit of political power. There has been a case made for ongoing corruption in various federal agencies, several of which would not withstand much scientific scrutiny. It all seems to do with money, and who is going to be making a bundle off of what product, and through supression of competitor's products. This world is not much fun for us pollyanna types. Best Wishes, Kathryn -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.orghttp://silverlist.org/ To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.commailto:silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.commailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.commailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:14:48 -0500 Clayton Family clay...@skypoint.com wrote: The FDA is one of the agencies I was referring to in my paragraph below. They seem to have one company that they are not blocking in developing certain silver applications, but are definitely hostile to many others. I heard about one CS supplier that was raided by them with guns drawn, etc, and they confiscated the silver solutions that were packaged for shipment. One would think they were after terrorists, the way they behaved. I think I have seen vague references to a similar story online, but the punchline was order our book now, credit cards accepted!, so I don't really buy it (pun intended). Can you supply any more information on that supposed incident? I know they can get very draconian over practicing medicine without a license, but for just making and selling CS (and not making any illegal claims)? I could always be mistaken, but I don't think so. The IRS is another agency that has gone off half cocked in a similar fashion, breaking many laws in the process as well. I don't doubt that the IRS employs illegal practices of various kinds -- after all, U.S. income tax is voluntary, according to the Constitution, but I cannot recommend you try opting out. Even so, can you tell me where I can find information that they are actively targeting people over CS? The World Health Org has it's own prejudices. You could check in to the abuses by baby formula makers, and also abuses by Big Pharma in testing vaccines on the poor of the world. Not saying it is their fault, but the decisions they make affect lots of people, even if they are well meaning, there is some harm done. Very true, but some corruption is always going to be inevitable. If we require every agency to be perfect then we might as well just dispense with the whole notion of government. Not something I would consider realistic... I guess they will tell us to click our heels together three times and chant There's no place like home . They already tell people their illnesses are all psychological with no basis in physical problem, I have never heard *that* from the FDA or the WHO. In fact, wouldn't that idea be anathema to Big Pharma? I think I see the opposite: medications for depression, jimmy legs, dry eyes, E.D., etc, etc, etc... Their idea appears to be that no-one can get control of their quality of life without pharmaceuticals, and that there's a pharmaceutical answer for everything. If it was all just psychological, then why push the meds? indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CS[List Owner] Standards and expectations... please read
Hi folks, Interesting discussions the last couple of days. Whenever a new person joins who seems to exhibit a prominent personality, there's always a period of give and take as the new member and the rest of the group (including other prominent personalities) adjust to one another. Neville provides a recent, pretty classic example that's working out rather well lately! waves to Neville! Right now, I'd say Indi is the one on the hot seat! grin Welcome, ma'am! I think for Indi and the rest of us to get the most benefit from her participation, it'd be good to clarify exactly what we're doing here and what kind of expectations are reasonable. First of all, we're not professional researchers. We are a bunch of individuals with varying backgrounds and a shared interest in the subject of whatever this stuff is that we call CS. Anecdotal reports and a few individuals' more careful experiments are the backbone of our data gathering efforts. Our greatest resource is that we have accumulated a *lot* of experience and practical results over the last 10 years, enough that we've been able to form a general consensus on: What things do we pretty well know are true? What things do we know are most likely false? What things are still open to debate, and what are the major positions? We have a general definition of at least one kind of CS preparation that we think is pretty effectivne, safe and economical: Low voltage, low current density, pure water and silver only, clear, colorless, faint tyndall effect, 5-15 ppm. It's not the only way to go, but we consider it a pretty good bet. Another major point of consensus is that: ionic silver works; particulate silver works; mixtures of the two work. Despite numeroius arguments, claims and counter-claims presented over the years, assertions that either one does *not* work are unconvincing. So when a new person arrives, searching for information and navigating all the conflicting claims and propaganda, we can help them by pruning the tree at least a little, and giving them some better context for what remains. Now, to change or influence any part of this consensus is going to require a lot more than bold assertions and strong opinions! It will take time, a body of reports and/or experimental results that support your ideas, and even a (rather casual) form of peer review. Sounds a little like science, right? However, and this is important, the minimum standards for publication here are *NOT* anywhere near on par with scientific or medical journals! Remember, we're still just a bunch of tinkerers and amateurs, with an occasional more serious experimentalist or theorist thrown in to keep things interesting. Neither are we anti-intellectual. If you want to share real scientific results, carefully obtained and analyzed, you'll find an appreciative audience, believe me, just as citations to the literature will be happily explored by those of us who have that level of interest. Meanwhile, folks coming here for basic help and direction should receive plenty of support, encouragement, and practical answers they can actually use, and not be confronted by a hostile, confrontational atmosphere filled with bickering technophiles. grin On a practical level, Indi, I'd suggest a couple of adjustments to what you expect from us... As a member, it's not generally your role to police what other people are saying. That's my job. If you feel something is out of line, let me know in private and I'll consider your input. This includes standards for evidence and proof for the things people say. In the example of your earlier exchange with Ken, his claim that... I've left ionic silver on a sunny window sill for as long as 5 years and it was still ionic and unchanged. ... was more than adequately substantiated as far as I'm concerned, given that, when asked, he was able to give us methodology, results and analysis sufficient that anyone with a mind to do so could judge the reliability of his statement. Accusing him of making unsubstantiated claims of the sort perpetrated by all the marketing clowns out on the 'net was not fair. As list owner, my standards for the group apply here, rather than some arbitrary degree of scientific rigor you would prefer. The other expectation I'd hope to see you scale back a little is your belief that *anything* we could do here would result in institutional acceptance of CS. Structuring all our activities and day-to-day discussions to try to motivate some hypothetical researchers to dedicate themselves to legitimizing this particular alternative health item is not really part of our mission brief. Our focus is on helping new people and each other, and sharing our results as we try to develop the art. It may sound paranoid, but at least here in the United States the special interests are sufficiently entrenched that you're likely unique in still hoping that they will ever open the door to
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
Faith writes: I do not agree with this at all. Smacks of paranoia to me. I understand your feeling, Faith, but please do understand that plenty of people have less faith in the system than you do. Twenty years ago you wouldn't have predicted that millions of school children would be on powerful prescription drugs, or that you would not be allowed to take a nail file on an airplane. Go back 40 years and our food was much more nutritious than it is today -- and 40 year before that it was even better. The levels of toxins, hormones and pharmaceuticals in it has skyrocketed. All along the way, regulators have supported and protected the preactices that have brought this about. Marlene's scenario might be pushing it a bit by today's standards, but fast-forward 15 years and who knows? Be well, Mike D. Marlene wrote: I agree with Kathryn, It might become illegal to be well without any supervision of the government regulated Pharma Companies, or their physicians. Seriously I appreciate the freedom we still have to share our experiences via the internet. I hope this freedom will not become a regulated system. Kathryn wrote: There are those who have a vested interest in promoting their own products to the exclusion of all others, and they are well funded and have quite a bit of political power. There has been a case made for ongoing corruption in various federal agencies, several of which would not withstand much scientific scrutiny. It all seems to do with money, and who is going to be making a bundle off of what product, and through supression of competitor's products. This world is not much fun for us pollyanna types. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[List Owner] Standards of proof...
Hi Indi, I think we're pretty much on the same page; I'd argue that we are indeed conducting that retrospective study, problem is some of us get a bit single-blind in the process. Preaching to the choir. . . . .?? Further, Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. There b'God is an axiom that's stood the test of time. However that is not the same as claiming that every person - or even most within the FDA, or FTC, or other feckless federal alphabetical monster - is corrupt. Hardly moot; ever heard of the Codex Alimentarius?? It's probably easier to declare silver a strategic material than a rose hip or orange juice g Also the case is both corruption AND ignorance; I think someone on this list once posted this quote from a scientific investigator-innovator: First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they attack you. Then they say they already knew it all along. ... raid our homes ... Wouldn't be the first time. Take care, Malcolm On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 10:28 -0400, indi wrote: On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:49:17 -0700 Malcolm s...@asis.com wrote: Well and good! We don't have the deus ex authoritas of political or scientific regulation stifling our chance to find out for ourselves what works and how it best works for us. Each. Yet. Oh, there's plenty wrong with the FDA's requirements, no doubt about it. But the cause is corruption, not ignorance. The double blind cross-controlled study method is definitely a very good way to acquire data, if it is done honestly and without employing ridiculous loopholes (as you pointed out, 100 people x 10 years does not equal 1000 people x 1 year). At this point, it would be great if there were a study following users of CS, since there are so many of us. It wouldn't be terribly hard to do, just define some basic control parameters, find appropriate subjects and medically monitor them. But I suppose Big Pharma is afraid of those results. :) As for fear of regulation, that is really a moot point. What are they going to do, raid our homes and confiscate our generators? Make silver a controlled substance? That'd be awfully hard to do... indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[List Owner] Standards of proof...
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:48:15 -0400 Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com wrote: indi wrote: On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:30:36 -0400 Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com wrote: Not quite sure what you mean by that. Arcing produces both NO2 (nitrogen dioxide) and NO (nitrogen oxide). When either contact water, they form acids. NO2 forms nitric acid, and NO forms nitrous acid. If silver is present it will produce silver nitrate or silver nitrite. Well, first we are talking very low ppm, or even ppb, and I am not sure what the threshold of taste is for the acids. But if it reacts with any silver, then you no longer have the acid, but a silver salt, which has much lower taste, so I am not sure if you could taste it or not. It would be like a couple of gains of salt in a glass of water. Thanks for the clarification, you raise some good points. Arcing is pretty easy to avoid, though. I used to work a lot on old vacuum tube powered audio circuits (though the max voltage in those was generally 600V or so), so I know a bit about that. indi Yes it is, but it may not be that simple. Ol Bob reported elevated oxides of nitrogen with the cone method of HVAC generation, without arcing. Probably due to corona discharge, which is a bit more difficult to identify and control. Marshall Oh, that's something I did not know. The cone method is what I use, too. Well, that's something else to test for then when I can. Did you know Bob Berger? I've read what I could find of his writing online, it's very interesting. Thanks, indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:55:15 -0700 Marlene Hanson mlehan...@msn.com wrote: I agree with Kathryn, It might become illegal to be well without any supervision of the government regulated Pharma Companies, or their physicians. Oh, I doubt that very much. For one thing, it costs really big money to enforce things like that, and for another, there's no profit in it. :) Seriously I appreciate the freedom we still have to share our experiences via the internet. I hope this freedom will not become a regulated system. It is extremely unlikely that regulation would affect those of us who make it at home. It would affect small manufacturers, who would not be able to compete with Big Pharma, but the power of big corporations is a whole separate issue (and a whole separate discussion group, no doubt). Cheers, indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
Hey, ya gotta keep up with this stuff! Progress, doncha know!? There are now many more FDA approved meds for psychological problems, particularly for the young, whose complaints are ignorable and whose independence is compromised at best. History; Prozac Nation. Ritalin; speed for subteens. On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 15:44 -0400, indi wrote: On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:14:48 -0500 Clayton Family clay...@skypoint.com wrote: I guess they will tell us to click our heels together three times and chant There's no place like home . They already tell people their illnesses are all psychological with no basis in physical problem, I have never heard *that* from the FDA or the WHO. In fact, wouldn't that idea be anathema to Big Pharma? I think I see the opposite: medications for depression, jimmy legs, dry eyes, E.D., etc, etc, etc... Their idea appears to be that no-one can get control of their quality of life without pharmaceuticals, and that there's a pharmaceutical answer for everything. If it was all just psychological, then why push the meds? indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
I do not agree with this at all. Smacks of paranoia to me. Faith G. - Original Message - From: Marlene Hanson mlehan...@msn.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:55 PM Subject: Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing I agree with Kathryn, It might become illegal to be well without any supervision of the government regulated Pharma Companies, or their physicians. Seriously I appreciate the freedom we still have to share our experiences via the internet. I hope this freedom will not become a regulated system. M - Original Mess age - From: Clayton Familymailto:clay...@skypoint.com To: silver-list@eskimo.commailto:silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:16 AM Subject: Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing On Oct 20, 2008, at 11:39 AM, indi wrote: Seriously, it may make a vast difference if one cares about the well-being of people in general. Like my Mother, for whom the doctor said so is right up there with it's in the bible. Or my best friend, dead now because the doctors were the authority, and I with my silver was crazy and probably experiencing a placebo effect. Yes, I'd like to see a community of caring people who are not anti-intellectuals attempt to nail down enough credible, scientifically-oriented evidence to make a compelling case that could then be taken seriously enough to prompt some federal grant for further investigation which might yield some compelling scientific facts. There has been quite a bit of research by various universities. A compelling case that could be taken seriously by whom? is the question. There are those who have a vested interest in promoting their own products to the exclusion of all others, and they are well funded and have quite a bit of political power. There has been a case made for ongoing corruption in various federal agencies, several of which would not withstand much scientific scrutiny. It all seems to do with money, and who is going to be making a bundle off of what product, and through supression of competitor's products. This world is not much fun for us pollyanna types. Best Wishes, Kathryn -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.orghttp://silverlist.org/ To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.commailto:silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.commailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.commailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
CSMaking ionic silver from silver oxide
I have been looking into building an HVAC colloidal silver generator. However I don't like the high voltages of up to 10kV: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1Sect2=HITOFFd=PALL p=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htmr=1f=Gl=50s1=7,135,195.PN.OS= PN/7,135,195RS=PN/7,135,195 I ran across a patent for making ionic silver from silver oxide: http://www.silver100.com/USPatent.PDF It is for a product sold as Silver 100. Here is the product brochure: http://www.silver100.com/productinfo.pdf As always, it makes great claims. But if it works it is cheap and easy to make. Mix together silver oxide, citric acid and tripotassium citrate and Voila! You have it. As a bonus, if you do something wrong you may by treated to a pyrotechnic surprise! Silver oxide is relatively cheap: http://www.saltlakemetals.com/Silver_Oxide.htm 25 grams of silver oxide provides 23.25 grams of actual silver and for only $40.00. It claims to provide time released silver ions and be able to pass through the digestive system without reaction. Is anyone familiar with this product? Is this worth pursuing? Thanks, Steve N -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
In this context, the nuance is different. See: http://www.fallacyfiles.org/fakeprec.html On Tuesday, Oct 21, 2008, at 21:33 Asia/Tokyo, Faith Gagne wrote: Spurious defined: Of false or erroneously attributed origin. Also, forged: of a deceitful nature or quality. So spurious accuracy means erroneous or deceitful. Faith G. - Original Message - From: Jonathan B. Britten jbrit...@cc.nakamura-u.ac.jp To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:37 AM Subject: Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing I once asked an expert in measurements a question about a related topic. His reply included the phrase spurious accuracy as a term used in his field. I think it boils down to question below. At some point, it's just not important. On Saturday, Oct 18, 2008, at 23:50 Asia/Tokyo, Wayne Fugitt wrote: The real important question, is, ... What difference does it make ? -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSColloidal Copper
Has anyone have experience with colloidal copper? It has interested me but I have read that it is easy to take too much and is toxic if you do. And that the important issue is copper/zinc balance: http://www.drkaslow.com/html/zinc-copper_imbalances.html However copper is valuable as an anti-inflammatory and anti-viral. The following article recommends using copper salicylate or copper ascorbate instead of colloidal copper. http://www.health-science-spirit.com/copper.html They are both easy to make and are supposedly much less toxic than colloidal copper. The article also recommends using zinc in the form of the Schweitzer Formula. Also relatively easy to make. Has anyone used any of these compounds? Thanks, Steve N -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing- or calculating
It sounds like you are unaware of Faraday? How can that be? You sound like an educated woman, and are likely to be able to do the calculations without trouble- or not? If one has pure water and pure silver, then? No unknowns. Just facts. Calculatable, repeatable, ergo, Provable. Or were my chemistry professors wrong? And the more than a hundred years of repeatable experiments to boot. It sounds to me like you like to explore obtuse points, which is what piqued my interest in the discussion. Kathryn On Oct 21, 2008, at 11:42 AM, indi wrote: Hi Kathryn and Hi list, I do not have faith that one can either guess or calculate PPM with any degree of accuracy. There are just too many unknowns. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
Remember Yossarian!g On Tue, 2008-10-21 at 17:39 -0400, Faith Gagne wrote: I do not agree with this at all. Smacks of paranoia to me. Faith G. - Original Message - From: Marlene Hanson mlehan...@msn.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:55 PM Subject: Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing I agree with Kathryn, It might become illegal to be well without any supervision of the government regulated Pharma Companies, or their physicians. Seriously I appreciate the freedom we still have to share our experiences via the internet. I hope this freedom will not become a regulated system. M - Original Mess age - From: Clayton Familymailto:clay...@skypoint.com Seriously, it may make a vast difference if one cares about the well-being of people in general. Like my Mother, for whom the doctor said so is right up there with it's in the bible. Or my best friend, dead now because the doctors were the authority, and I with my silver was crazy and probably experiencing a placebo effect. Yes, I'd like to see a community of caring people who are not anti-intellectuals attempt to nail down enough credible, scientifically-oriented evidence to make a compelling case that could then be taken seriously enough to prompt some federal grant for further investigation which might yield some compelling scientific facts. There has been quite a bit of research by various universities. A compelling case that could be taken seriously by whom? is the question. There are those who have a vested interest in promoting their own products to the exclusion of all others, and they are well funded and have quite a bit of political power. There has been a case made for ongoing corruption in various federal agencies, several of which would not withstand much scientific scrutiny. It all seems to do with money, and who is going to be making a bundle off of what product, and through supression of competitor's products. This world is not much fun for us pollyanna types. Best Wishes, Kathryn -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.orghttp://silverlist.org/ To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.commailto:silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.commailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.commailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing- or calculating
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:39:06 -0500 Clayton Family clay...@skypoint.com wrote: It sounds like you are unaware of Faraday? No, actually I am not unaware of Faraday, I just fail to see how his work can be used to provide me with detailed chemical analysis of a given substance. As I said, conductivity of what? remains an unanswered question. How can that be? You sound like an educated woman, and are likely to be able to do the calculations without trouble- or not? If one has pure water and pure silver, then? It sounds like you are disregarding my concerns. No unknowns. Just facts. Calculatable, repeatable, ergo, Provable. Yes, you are definitely disregarding what I said. Or were my chemistry professors wrong? And the more than a hundred years of repeatable experiments to boot. It sounds to me like you like to explore obtuse points, which is what piqued my interest in the discussion. Okay. Well, the desire for detailed analysis without guessing games isn't obtuse to me, it's just natural. I'm sorry if my desire for more knowledge offends you, or if you find me obtuse. BTW, where I come from, an obtuse person usually means someone who doesn't understand or completely ignores what others say to them. Interesting you choose that word for me, isn't it? indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing- or calculating
On Oct 21, 2008, at 7:06 PM, indi wrote: On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:39:06 -0500 Clayton Family clay...@skypoint.com wrote: It sounds like you are unaware of Faraday? No, actually I am not unaware of Faraday, I just fail to see how his work can be used to provide me with detailed chemical analysis of a given substance. As I said, conductivity of what? remains an unanswered question. conductivity of any ion concentration in water, of course. And with Faradays calculations we can get a precise figure for just exactly how much silver (or whatever you put in it) is there. All ions are just itching to hook up with something, and the potentials are all pretty well established, really easy to look up in an online world. I am having a hard time believing that you are such a skeptic that you do not even believe the pure distilled water sold for laboratory use is not really pure water. But maybe that is what you are saying. How can that be? You sound like an educated woman, and are likely to be able to do the calculations without trouble- or not? If one has pure water and pure silver, then? It sounds like you are disregarding my concerns. Perhaps I was. Are you also thinking of the possible volatiles coming from the plastic of the bottles, then; and you definitely said something about air- which is basically soup anyway, not easy to figure out what is there either. These sort of interactions (silver ions, volatiles and air) might be in the ppb or ppt, so not easy to pick out of the soup. There is probably equipment somewhere (I am thinking of the EPA) that can measure something like that. Our ability to measure tiny amounts has way outstripped our knowledge of how it interacts in the body in such small amounts. No unknowns. Just facts. Calculatable, repeatable, ergo, Provable. Yes, you are definitely disregarding what I said. Or were my chemistry professors wrong? And the more than a hundred years of repeatable experiments to boot. It sounds to me like you like to explore obtuse points, which is what piqued my interest in the discussion. Okay. Well, the desire for detailed analysis without guessing games isn't obtuse to me, it's just natural. I'm sorry if my desire for more knowledge offends you, or if you find me obtuse. BTW, where I come from, an obtuse person usually means someone who doesn't understand or completely ignores what others say to them. Interesting you choose that word for me, isn't it? indi I said you seem to like to explore obtuse points. I did not intend to make it personal. Please forgive me, I am sorry, I did not intend to insult you. Where I come from an obtuse point is one that is not the average one under consideration, but a more difficult one to discern. Kathryn -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
A German medical doctor named Mathais Rath makes really extraordinary claims about the supposed evils of pharmaceutical companies. He has an extensive website that is well worth reading. I would characterize his perspective as extreme, but given the facts of history, not paranoid. http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/ His group seems to have something to say about all kinds of issues; the site is worth a bookmark. On Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008, at 05:52 Asia/Tokyo, M. G. Devour wrote: Faith writes: I do not agree with this at all. Smacks of paranoia to me. I understand your feeling, Faith, but please do understand that plenty of people have less faith in the system than you do. Twenty years ago you wouldn't have predicted that millions of school children would be on powerful prescription drugs, or that you would not be allowed to take a nail file on an airplane. Go back 40 years and our food was much more nutritious than it is today -- and 40 year before that it was even better. The levels of toxins, hormones and pharmaceuticals in it has skyrocketed. All along the way, regulators have supported and protected the preactices that have brought this about. Marlene's scenario might be pushing it a bit by today's standards, but fast-forward 15 years and who knows? Be well, Mike D. Marlene wrote: I agree with Kathryn, It might become illegal to be well without any supervision of the government regulated Pharma Companies, or their physicians. Seriously I appreciate the freedom we still have to share our experiences via the internet. I hope this freedom will not become a regulated system. Kathryn wrote: There are those who have a vested interest in promoting their own products to the exclusion of all others, and they are well funded and have quite a bit of political power. There has been a case made for ongoing corruption in various federal agencies, several of which would not withstand much scientific scrutiny. It all seems to do with money, and who is going to be making a bundle off of what product, and through supression of competitor's products. This world is not much fun for us pollyanna types. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing- or calculating
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:35:55 -0500 Clayton Family clay...@skypoint.com wrote: I am having a hard time believing that you are such a skeptic that you do not even believe the pure distilled water sold for laboratory use is not really pure water. But maybe that is what you are saying. No, what I said was exactly this, but you appear to be completely ignoring it: There are degrees of accuracy, of course, with absolute being unavailable (and Ode has pointed this out before). However, my close enough standard requires at least accounting for all elements present as a base. Otherwise, we wind up with more questions than answers, don't you agree? One rather obvious example is that many people have been shocked to learn the types of indoor pollutants their homes contain -- how can we be sure there is nothing but pure air in the environment in which we operate? From carpets, upholstery, and wall coverings that release various gasses, to radon pollution, it's a huge question mark whenever we do work like this in the home. When you unseal a container at home, what are you exposing it to? And what is the effect? And then we supply electrical current, which is an excellent catalyst, LOL... Okay, I'll admit I'm a bit neurotic, but I'm also quite right about this. I just want to know what *is* in that solution. Otherwise, what good is an EC meter reading? Until I can determine that, I just don't see much value in either guessing or calculating PPM, because the question PPM of what? has not been answered. This is not to say that I think anyone is making an inferior solution, merely that I want to know more. Cheers, indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing
Thanks Mike. Faith G. - Original Message - From: M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:47 PM Subject: Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing Faith writes: I do not agree with this at all. Smacks of paranoia to me. I understand your feeling, Faith, but please do understand that plenty of people have less faith in the system than you do. Twenty years ago you wouldn't have predicted that millions of school children would be on powerful prescription drugs, or that you would not be allowed to take a nail file on an airplane. Go back 40 years and our food was much more nutritious than it is today -- and 40 year before that it was even better. The levels of toxins, hormones and pharmaceuticals in it has skyrocketed. All along the way, regulators have supported and protected the preactices that have brought this about. Marlene's scenario might be pushing it a bit by today's standards, but fast-forward 15 years and who knows? Be well, Mike D. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSIndi...just do it
Hi Indi, Why don't you *make* some and then you will have something to compare with something else. It is very easy, here is how: http://www.silvermedicine.org/basicgenerator.html Course, if you have done this or something else or are like me, I let Ode do the building and I pour distilled water and flip a switch. When the EIS is done, I pour it into a gallon sun tea jug and start another batch. See, the advantage of *making* some, is that you get some *benefit* whereas if you don't make any, well you get my point. At some point you gotta make some kind of commitment, imho, lest you just tred your water, and others get tired of tredding with you. Now there is *nothing* in here I am going to argue with you about...because I have given you my *suggestion* and that is all I have to offer...everyone else is doing the heavy lifting trying to tell you what's up at da silver list. Back into my hole, Craig -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSHow Close is Close Enough
Good Evening, At 07:59 PM 10/21/2008, you wrote: However, my close enough standard requires at least accounting for all elements present Recently I asked a Physics Professor one of my Classic Problems. ( or so I though ) I came up with a near unsolvable problem myself. Here is what he said. We solved that problem long ago. He gave me a general answer, which I doubt that was 100% correct. When I asked him something else, His reply, That is close enough for all practical purposes. It appears Close Enough is an accepted standard, but not for the purists. Wayne When I shoot a rabbit in the head, at 250 or 300 yards, anywhere in the head is close enough. == -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CS[List Owner] Standards and expectations... please read
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:34:47 -5 M. G. Devour mdev...@eskimo.com wrote: Right now, I'd say Indi is the one on the hot seat! grin Welcome, ma'am! Thanks. Yes, I feel a bit on the hot seat with a couple of people here. :) Meanwhile, folks coming here for basic help and direction should receive plenty of support, encouragement, and practical answers they can actually use, and not be confronted by a hostile, confrontational atmosphere filled with bickering technophiles. grin I don't think of debate as hostility, but I have been reminded recently that some people do. So your point is a good one. Also I tend to forget that not everyone is as pedantic as I know can be at times. My good enough sometimes includes a lot of factors most people never think of. On a practical level, Indi, I'd suggest a couple of adjustments to what you expect from us... As a member, it's not generally your role to police what other people are saying. That's my job. If you feel something is out of line, let me know in private and I'll consider your input. This includes standards for evidence and proof for the things people say. Alright, I can abide by that. As list owner, my standards for the group apply here, rather than some arbitrary degree of scientific rigor you would prefer. That is true, it's your list. The other expectation I'd hope to see you scale back a little is your belief that *anything* we could do here would result in institutional acceptance of CS. Oh, I have already seen and accepted that legitimization is far from a common desire on this list. And that's fine, I guess I just didn't anticipate it. There is a lot I didn't expect here, really. But I am glad to be on this list, there are some really intriguing people and ideas here, and a lot of experience. Thanks for the help and the kind words. Cheers, indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSIndi...just do it
Hi Craig, I do make it (HVAC cone, 12k v...@30ma). I have also bought some from several different vendors. I just want to know more. What I have not done is make the LVDC type. I initially didn't believe in that method, but with so many insisting it works for them I will have to try it as well. Thanks, indi On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:08:55 -0700 Craig Chamberlin craigs...@craigcchamberlin.com wrote: Hi Indi, Why don't you *make* some and then you will have something to compare with something else. It is very easy, here is how: http://www.silvermedicine.org/basicgenerator.html Course, if you have done this or something else or are like me, I let Ode do the building and I pour distilled water and flip a switch. When the EIS is done, I pour it into a gallon sun tea jug and start another batch. See, the advantage of *making* some, is that you get some *benefit* whereas if you don't make any, well you get my point. At some point you gotta make some kind of commitment, imho, lest you just tred your water, and others get tired of tredding with you. Now there is *nothing* in here I am going to argue with you about...because I have given you my *suggestion* and that is all I have to offer...everyone else is doing the heavy lifting trying to tell you what's up at da silver list. Back into my hole, Craig -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSPurity???
Well while everyone is about it, why not start another argument or discussion on the 'purity' of something. As far as I am concerned, and I'm no graduate chemist or physicist, the term 'purity' is only a connotation put on something for the purpose of satisfying an explanation or description. Nothing in our world is 'pure', what is 'pure'? The only thing that's 'pure' regarding EICS in my opinion is 'conjecture', which is defined in one of my dictionaries as, quote, the formation of ideas or opinions from incomplete or doubtful information, end quote. While this definition can be argued to infinity and subject to an individuals interpretation, (which I'm not getting involved with and will leave to the scholars to contemplate), the basic meaning of it speaks to me. Is silver 'pure'? is water 'pure'? and I don't care if the water's distilled, pure, rain, out of the tap, flowing from some alpine glacier up in oodla woop woop or a person running around on the top of a mountain collecting mist or fog or whatever in a plastic bag. Is 99.9% pure fine silver 'pure'? I suspect not, if it was it would be 100% pure fine silver, but the definition satisfies the individual who is seeking 'pure' silver. Is pure water pure, again I suspect not, but is satisfies for the purpose of description. I would assume immediately the lid comes off the bottle it's no longer 'pure'. Purity to me is something which is unquestionable and absolute, (to borrow a terminology g), so I have to ask, is there anything in our world which is pure in unquestionable and absolute terms? This is another reason why I am endlessly amazed at why there is so much 'picking the bones' of EICS. I've been following, (as best my limited intelligence allows), a lengthy discussion in recent days and it appears to me everyone is pretty much right back to a place where every home producer of EICS has been for years. While a lot may have been learned by some my experience is that for every answer found, there are two questions which comes with it. The finer points of CS has too many 'pot-holes' to me to get a clear run and I suspect it will be this way for some time to come. In my mind there is no such thing as 'pure colloidal silver', as termed, but the terminology satisfies me for the purpose of description. Just felt a need to express the above as a perspective that's all. N.
Re: CSMeasuring or Guessing- or calculating
- Original Message - [I just want to know what *is* in that solution. Otherwise, what good is an EC meter reading? Until I can determine that, I just don't see much value in either guessing or calculating PPM, because the question PPM of what? has not been answered. This is not to say that I think anyone is making an inferior solution, merely that I want to know more. indi] Wanted to know that, questioned meters, tried to determine that, couldn't find the answers to satisfy me either, and the answers I did find seemed to conflict so I don't bother any more, I have enough information and knowledge to produce it, produce a product which passes my quality control manager.Oh yeah, that would be me!, 'guess' test it, by and large do it repeatedly, drink and/or use it and just accept it for what it is and what it does now. Neville. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSHow Close is Close Enough
Hi there Wayne, [Wayne wrote: When I shoot a rabbit in the head, at 250 or 300 yards, anywhere in the head is close enough.] Hysterical Wayne, anywhere in the head has always been close enough to work for me too. g N. == -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSCS and Cancer
Bob, Interesting. I am familiar with artmesinin, and artemether, but didn't know it functioned by reacting with iron. thanks, sol bbanever wrote: Yes iron is involved in cancer. Most cancer cells have an excess of iron, that is why Artemisinin is effective for cancer (Chinese wormwood)... it reacts with iron (oxidative reaction) killing the cell. It is also used to cure malaria... and the malaria spirochete has an exccess of iron as well. Interesting... -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
