subject:"CS Questions"

(Catching breath)  Right: the EIS was two days old, but it did go white murky 
after adding the single drop of 35% HP.  Then it went clear after adding 
another drop of 35% HP.  The 'ppm' was then 10 when before it was eight.  I 
don't mind as long as I still have some silver left!  Thanks for the reply.  dee

On 14 Apr 2010, at 14:37, Ode Coyote wrote:

> 
> 
>  TE has nothing to do with ions..it means that are fewer or smaller 
> particles, too small for the pure red light wavelengths of a laser to "find".
> The rise in conductivity indicates than some of the particles turned into 
> ions as only ions contribute to a meter registering anything at all.
> BUT, there are TWO sorts of ions in there  Ag [+] and OH [-] the anion.
> 
> If the yellow was due to oxidized ions and the H2O2 scavenged the Oxy off 
> that molecule, the result *should be* an O2 gas emulsion [murky for a while 
> till the gas bubbles are  dissolved into the water] and a newly made silver 
> ion adding to conductivity.
> 
> If a particle [crystal ] was nucleated by a silver oxide molecule and the 
> H2O2 broke up that nucleus into gas emulsion and an ion, the particle would 
> fragment into smaller pieces.
> Crystals prefer to form around a nucleus.
> 
> In a case where it's mostly just unprotected ions and the Hydroxl anions such 
> as with very fresh EIS, the addition of  "some" H2O2 might scavenge the Oxy 
> off the Anion and make a Hydrogen AND Oxygen gas emulsion [white murky] where 
> "more" H2O2 might also oxidize silver ions along with the emulsion previously 
> made [brown murky]
> 


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RE: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-14 Thread Ode Coyote

  Key word...need.
You don't need to filter or decant unless you feel or see the need and a 
laser will show it to you in detail, but need is still an opinion.
 Far as I can tell, none of that stuff is "harmful" in any way, at worst, 
useless.

When the laser shows a TE that looks like velvet with no sparklies or 
grainy hard edged appearance, you know that all the particles are below the 
size that would reflect a photon stream large enough for the eye to be able 
to discriminate between them due to the resolution limits of eyeballs.

What the resolution of eyeballs is, is all wrapped up in distance and 
angular stuff that I've not been able to unravel to this specific close up 
question amplified by bright linear light and the optics of a round water 
filled container aka *microscope* of sorts...nor have I been able to 
discover what the max size of a silver particle is that will stay suspended 
forever in water. [Rumor has it at around 1 micron ?? ]

Ode

At 09:41 PM 4/13/2010 +1030, you wrote:
OK, well seeing as I know you're fairly cluey on the subject , praps 
you could answer me this then...How does one filter, or decant leaving 
"bigguns" behind when there's nothing in the container TO leave behind?

What say you then about density and size if I don't have anything 'left 
behind' to filter or decant?  Can't filter or decant when there's nothing 
there to filter or decant, it's just pure EIS I'm afraid, no 'bigguns', no 
mud, no gravel, no nothing.  If I were to decant at any time all I'd be 
doing would be pouring my solution from one container into another with 
*nothing* left in the container but air.

Praps you could take a wild guess as to why I don't have a necessity to do 
this?  Or should I be presumptuous and take a wild guess myself...I 
produce good quality EIS, be it clear or yellow.  The definition of 'good' 
would be up to an individuals interpretation I spose, but I'm quite 
content with how mine looks.

Dee passed a friendly comment the other day about my being "laid back", 
well in actuallity, nothing could be further from the truth.  I am 
somewhat perplexed when I hear some have a need to filter or decant when I 
have never had to do that with what I produce, I am left wondering what 
the hell some people are making, or how they're making it?  If I ever 
needed to do that I would be making some serious changes in my process 
here I can tell you.

N.

> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 04:29:10 -0400
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> From: odecoy...@windstream.net
> Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions
>
>
>
> The laser just gives you some eyeball idea of particle density and size.
> If you filter by letting the bigguns settle, it'll tell you when it's 
ready

> to decant.
> Ode

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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-14 Thread Richard Goodwin



> When thirsty and water cancel each other, you don't really need to know the 
> scientific details of dehydration.

Ode

Heh ... like matter and antimatter, when they collide, they annihilate each 
other.   Same with thirsty and water, eh?  But ... where do they go then???


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-14 Thread Ode Coyote




  TE has nothing to do with ions..it means that are fewer or smaller 
particles, too small for the pure red light wavelengths of a laser to "find".
 The rise in conductivity indicates than some of the particles turned into 
ions as only ions contribute to a meter registering anything at all.

BUT, there are TWO sorts of ions in there  Ag [+] and OH [-] the anion.

If the yellow was due to oxidized ions and the H2O2 scavenged the Oxy off 
that molecule, the result *should be* an O2 gas emulsion [murky for a while 
till the gas bubbles are  dissolved into the water] and a newly made silver 
ion adding to conductivity.


If a particle [crystal ] was nucleated by a silver oxide molecule and the 
H2O2 broke up that nucleus into gas emulsion and an ion, the particle would 
fragment into smaller pieces.

 Crystals prefer to form around a nucleus.

In a case where it's mostly just unprotected ions and the Hydroxl anions 
such as with very fresh EIS, the addition of  "some" H2O2 might scavenge 
the Oxy off the Anion and make a Hydrogen AND Oxygen gas emulsion [white 
murky] where "more" H2O2 might also oxidize silver ions along with the 
emulsion previously made [brown murky]


 Hot water will hold less dissolved gas than cold and more kinetic energy 
should cause microscopic bubbles to merge, become big enough to be buoyant 
and bubble off.
 Question:  Does bringing EIS made murky by H2O2 clear up to *not murky* 
after being heated upto colorless or brownish ? [depending on what 
color it was ]


 "Stabilized" EIS  could be a result of Silver Ions loosely bonding with 
the Oxygen atoms of water molecules over a period of time, hence protecting 
them from the action of H2O2, leaving it to prefer reactions with whatever 
Silver Oxides there may be and OH anions.
 Yellow clears up, indicating it was due to suspended oxide 
particles...and/or...particles of that size made on those Oxide particles.
An Oxide nucleated particle could display a color yellow from both pigment 
and Rayleigh Light Scattering effect...or other colors just from light 
scattering overwhelming the pigmentation to just add a darker hue to the 
dominating color.
Given that H2O2 removes color from yellow, violet AND red EIS, that 
indicates that both particle sizes are being reduced and the destruction of 
Silver Oxide nuclei is happening to cause that reduction.


If a meter is registering on OH [-] Anions after the Silver Ions have 
Hydrated with the water, that could explain why conductivity drops as the 
EIS stabilizes without developing a much denser TE.
But if many of the silver ions find an anion before the ions hydrate, the 
conductivity would also drop with the formation of Silver Hydroxide along 
with the formation of a more dense TE.

In both cases, the meter would triggering on Anions as Ions go hide.

Anions are made in a 1 to 1 ratio with ions, so using a meter to get PPM of 
"Silver" is like counting apples to see how many oranges there are in a 
basket of pears.
It sorta works as they are all about the same size, but you aren't doing 
anything like what you'd think you are.


 Tracking PH changes should clear up some details. [I find details to be 
really boring]

OH [-] rich water is the definition of Alkaline Water.

BTW  Most water ionizers use salt or tap water minerals, making the 
Alkaline effect due to the formation of Lye or other highly water soluble 
metal Hydroxide, where-as *Silver Hydroxide* is not very soluble in water.


It would be a lot cheaper and easier to just drop a few Draino Crystals in 
water and drink that.


On the Acid side of the ionizer, you'd have Hypochlorous Acid rather than 
H3 Hydronium rich water you would get using pure water in the Ionizer, both 
useful disinfectants and both Acidic, but not quite the same thing.


If you happen to have a brand new water ionizer, try using pure water and 
silver electrodes..and see what you get.


Should be pure Silver Ions in water on one side [no flavor and reacts 
violently with H2O2] and pure Hydronium water on the other. [bitter flavor 
and no apparent reaction with H2O2]

..a whole 'nother can o worms, ey?

S... what happens if you use Silver electrodes and EIS as the conductor 
with a Zapper, rather than Copper  that won't ionize as at low a voltage as 
Silver will and salt water as the conductive interface liquid ?


Silver Iontoporosis?  ..and Hypochlorous Acid and Lye made IN the blood out 
of the salt in the blood, rather than both in the blood and on the skin.
 And when those two meet making themselves back into salt, left over 
Silver Ions in the blood?

 Would salt rather be salt over Silver Chloride?  I think so.

  What then?

It would appear that Silver Ions stimulate the production of stem cells as 
well as sterilizing whatever they are in, virtually eliminating scar tissue 
and infections while wounded pieces and parts are healing FAST.



 A Zapper run in such a manner could use the Alkaline effect of killing 
cancer cells, the

RE: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-14 Thread Ode Coyote




 It's pretty tough to conduct science in highly variable environments with 
the most chemically active form of matter besides maybe a hot plasma.
So cave painting and guessing at the stars it remains and what works, works 
without knowing exactly why.


When thirsty and water cancel each other, you don't really need to know the 
scientific details of dehydration.


Ode


At 10:14 PM 4/13/2010 +1030, you wrote:
No worries Dee, It's just that EIS seems to have a mind of it's own and 
will occasionally throw the odd curve ball at you.  You're right about the 
science thing of course, but my experience indicates THIS stuff is not a 
science, it's an art, and unless the researchers pick up the pace, I don't 
think the painting will be completed in my lifetime .


It's just EIS throwing down the gaunlet to see if you're good enough to a 
challenge it.  I don't accept the challenge anymore.


Praps it's simply because I don't get these issues some speak of that I 
don't understand the reason for anyone hitting their EIS with HP.  Praps 
old Wayne was right, I haven't gotten my hands muddied and bloodied 
enough, but then why should I?  If it ain't broke...don't mess with it .


N.

>



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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

Thanks for the clear explanation for this Marshall.  dee

On 13 Apr 2010, at 20:33, Marshall Dudley wrote:

> When you started you had particles of 40 to 50 nm in size, and a 
> concentration over 20 ppm of silver.  When you added the H2O2 it immediately 
> broke up the big particles producing silver oxide and silver hydroxide, but 
> before it could convert most of that to 2 atom particles it was used up, so 
> you were left with a concentration of ionic silver above the limit of 
> solubility (25 or so ppm) which made it cloudy.  Adding another drop of H2O2 
> allowed some of the ionic silver to convert to 2 atom colloid, thus clearing 
> it up.  As time went buy more of the undissolved ionic silver either went 
> back into solution or precipitated out reducing the Tyndall.
> 
> Marshall
> 


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

You're so sweet - you said something nice Chuck!  


On 13 Apr 2010, at 21:10, cking...@nycap.rr.com wrote:

> We love you as you are Dee...
> 
> What about Neville, who "can't decant???
> 
>   Chuck
> Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch!
> 
> 
> On 4/13/2010 2:08:19 PM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick (d...@deetroy.org) wrote:
>> Golly, I wish I was brainier!  dee
>> 
>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 18:19, Marshall Dudley wrote:
>> 


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

Thank you for the information Marshall.  dee

On 13 Apr 2010, at 20:36, Marshall Dudley wrote:

> It is possible you still had some large particles that had not gotten broken 
> down with the first drop, but I would guess what you really had was ionic 
> silver precipitate because it exceeded the solubility limit, and the second 
> drop converted some of that to 2 atom colloid.  Or you might have had both.
> 
> BTW, I was wrong about going up by the 4th power of size, it actually goes up 
> by the 6th power of size per particle, or 3rd power of size for a constant 
> ppm.
> 
> Marshall
> 


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Marshall's explanations of tydall and particle size, was Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-13 Thread sol


Marshall Dudley wrote:
When you started you had particles of 40 to 50 nm in size, and a 
concentration over 20 ppm of silver.  When you added the H2O2 it 
immediately broke up the big particles producing silver oxide and 
silver hydroxide, but before it could convert most of that to 2 atom 
particles it was used up, so you were left with a concentration of 
ionic silver above the limit of solubility (25 or so ppm) which made 
it cloudy.  Adding another drop of H2O2 allowed some of the ionic 
silver to convert to 2 atom colloid, thus clearing it up.  As time 
went buy more of the undissolved ionic silver either went back into 
solution or precipitated out reducing the Tyndall.


Marshall


Thanks, Marshall, I could even understand that!
And I could also understand most of your post on wavelengths of light 
and particle sizes. Yay!

sol


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-13 Thread cking001

We love you as you are Dee...

What about Neville, who "can't decant???

Chuck
Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch!
 

On 4/13/2010 2:08:19 PM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick (d...@deetroy.org) wrote:
> Golly, I wish I was brainier!  dee
> 
> On 13 Apr 2010, at 18:19, Marshall Dudley wrote:
> 
> > Neville Munn wrote:
> >>


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-13 Thread Marshall Dudley

It is possible you still had some large particles that had not gotten 
broken down with the first drop, but I would guess what you really had 
was ionic silver precipitate because it exceeded the solubility limit, 
and the second drop converted some of that to 2 atom colloid.  Or you 
might have had both.


BTW, I was wrong about going up by the 4th power of size, it actually 
goes up by the 6th power of size per particle, or 3rd power of size for 
a constant ppm.


Marshall

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:

So after I put in the second drop of H202 this would have made the particles 
smaller because I now have a weaker tyndall effect?  dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 21:56, Marshall Dudley wrote:

  

Since Tyndall only show up on particles, I would expect any sample with similar 
ppms to have more tyndall for higher particle concentrations, although particle 
size really has much more effect than quantity since the ratio is linear with 
concentration, but goes up to the 4th power of size.

Marshall

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:




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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-13 Thread Marshall Dudley

When you started you had particles of 40 to 50 nm in size, and a 
concentration over 20 ppm of silver.  When you added the H2O2 it 
immediately broke up the big particles producing silver oxide and silver 
hydroxide, but before it could convert most of that to 2 atom particles 
it was used up, so you were left with a concentration of ionic silver 
above the limit of solubility (25 or so ppm) which made it cloudy.  
Adding another drop of H2O2 allowed some of the ionic silver to convert 
to 2 atom colloid, thus clearing it up.  As time went buy more of the 
undissolved ionic silver either went back into solution or precipitated 
out reducing the Tyndall.


Marshall

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:

It was sitting for 48 hours sol when I noticed it had gone yellow (the 2nd 
batch) I put in one drop of H202 and thats when it went cloudy.  It cleared 
after adding another drop though, and the ppm went up from 8 to 10ppm.  I've 
noticed that after another day sitting, that the tyndall is now weaker.  Is 
this because there are less ions now do you think?  dee

On 13 Apr 2010, at 00:36, sol wrote:

  

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:


Oh yes, and I meant to have said that the second batch had a very strong 
tyndall even though it had a lower TDS reading than the one with the weak 
tyndall. dee

 
  

So far as I know that is a typical situation. More particles, weaker 
conductance (after the CS has stabilized) but you could actually have more 
silver in that batch. Particles do not have conductance, ions do.
The stronger and wider and denser the tyndall the more likely a batch will go 
cloudy when H202 is added, IF you don't add enough.
From my personal experience, if you add enough it will go clear eventually. 
Also less likely to go cloudy at all if you let the CS sit for 48 or more hours 
before adding the H202.
sol


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

Well I was the same sol--but for these two batches!  I just couldn't figure out 
what had gone wrong!  I make my own water which always reads 000 on the 
TDSand have done for months with no problems at all.  The only difference 
is.cleaning those electrodes -  so I'm not going to do that anymore and I 
will post the results.  thanks for your - and everyone elses -  input.  dee

On 13 Apr 2010, at 18:34, sol wrote:

> Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:
>> I
>> 
>>  
> I tend to think it is because there are either more ions, or much smaller 
> particles, the peroxide having broken up larger particles back into smaller 
> particles and ions. I've seen some disagreement that that is exactly how 
> peroxide clears CS, but that explanation fits with results I've seen myself 
> from my own tyndall and uS testing.  Sometimes after adding a bit of peroxide 
> and seeing CS go cloudy, it would go clear again after sitting a couple more 
> days (without addition of more peroxide).
>   

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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

Golly, I wish I was brainier!  dee

On 13 Apr 2010, at 18:19, Marshall Dudley wrote:

> Neville Munn wrote:
>> You'll have silver in the solution with OR without Tyndall. We know they're 
>> colloids, but what size are those colloids?
>> OK, let's seriously look at particle size for a moment.  Question 1 would 
>> be...At what *minimum* size do particles have a tendancy to fall out of 
>> solution, or what size will they need to be before gravity pulls them out of 
>> solution?  I look forward to an answer on this one.  I'd say they'd have to 
>> be pretty big and suggest larger than 1 micron.  Nobody who produces EIS 
>> comes anywhere remotely near that dimension.
> There is no absolute maximum size. The maximum is set by both the size and 
> the zeta of the particle.  If the zeta is 0 then even the smallest particles 
> will fall out.
>> Question 2 would be...What are the sizes of the smallest AND the largest 
>> particles in the same solution?  They won't all be the SAME size, there are 
>> a different sized particles present to my knowledges, we only hear about the 
>> smallest ones, which is probly why particle size and ion/particle ratios 
>> don't appear on the bottle, it could come back and bite them on the arse if 
>> someone gets an analysis done after purchase. {I don't purchase any so I 
>> stand to be corrected if this statement is not right}.
> The smallest are likely to be around 2 angstroms, actually 1X2 angstroms.  
> The largest will be indicated by the color to some extent.


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-13 Thread sol


Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:

It was sitting for 48 hours sol when I noticed it had gone yellow (the 2nd 
batch) I put in one drop of H202 and thats when it went cloudy.  It cleared 
after adding another drop though, and the ppm went up from 8 to 10ppm.  I've 
noticed that after another day sitting, that the tyndall is now weaker.  Is 
this because there are less ions now do you think?  dee

  
 I tend to think it is because there are either more ions, or much 
smaller particles, the peroxide having broken up larger particles back 
into smaller particles and ions. I've seen some disagreement that that 
is exactly how peroxide clears CS, but that explanation fits with 
results I've seen myself from my own tyndall and uS testing.  Sometimes 
after adding a bit of peroxide and seeing CS go cloudy, it would go 
clear again after sitting a couple more days (without addition of more 
peroxide).
  I also wanted to know why everything and anything weird happened to 
my CSbut after many, many months of experimentation, at the 
end of which I found it was the starting distilled water quality, with 
occasional issues of jar contamination/plating or whatever, I got into a 
stable routine which nearly always produces perfectly water clear CS for 
me. Even faint straw color is vanishingly for the past 5-6 years, so I 
just stick to what I have found works here.
   Would you believe I even tracked time of day of brewing a batch and 
phases of the moon? Noted if I had used any vinegar or chlorine in 
cleaning...etc, etc, ad nauseum.  Lot of obsessive work, LOL. 
And after finding the two things that do affect my finished product, I 
finally figured out that there are, as Ode says, too darn many other 
variables for me to track, and I lack the testing equipment to track 
even those I can make guesses about. So I gave up trying to figure the 
whys of every difference, and am satisfied to have worked out what I 
need to do to get clear CS.
FWIW, the things that work for me here may not work for everyone 
everywhere, again, those darn multitudinous variables...

sol


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-13 Thread Marshall Dudley

llest 
particles possible, and any/all particles in any of my solutions are 
WAY below half a micron, and when reading how small a particle must be 
to pass thru the stomack lining, capillaries etc in the circulatory 
system, organs, even the blood brain barrier {can't remember now cos 
it's years ago I read that material so delete the blood brain barrier 
thing if it's incorrect}, that encourages me to believe ALL my silver 
solutions, clear or coloured, are perfectly bioavailable and super 
efficacious.
I am unable to find any good references that give the absorption vs 
molecular size for the stomach.  Some years ago I found that the 
absorption begins dropping off at around 15 nm, but I cannot find that 
now.  One reference seems to indicate that significant dropoff occurs 
above 85 nm.
 
Final note:  With all the people around the globe producing this 
stuff, including among you people here, does one think for one 
nanosecond {pun intended} that all their/your particles in their/your 
solutions are of the smallest size which popular press 'suggests?' 
they should be?  Somehow I doubt that very much, one must look at this 
stuff with more logic I think, and relax a little more.  Most of 
the information which abounds in the public domain regarding EIS/CS is 
supposition, inuendo, best guess senario, techno babble, trying to 
suck people in, or just plain BS.  With laboratory analysis I 
understand this much clearer, and with all I've read over the years 
I'm totally comfortable with what I produce, and how I produce it, I'm 
as cool as a cucumber with not a worry in the world about what I make 
and take...clear or yellow.
If you look at the absorption curve of some EIS I made that was around 3 
ppm at http://www.silver-lightning.com/hach/oral.GIF you will see that 
there are two peaks, one at 193 nm and the other at 209 nm. It was 
totally clear. Particle sizes from the graph appear to be less than 1 nm 
from the absorptions.


The graph at http://www.silver-lightning.com/hach/oral2.GIF show some 
which was higher ppm and was slightly yellow.  However the vast majority 
of the absorption was below 350 nm.


The graph at http://www.silver-lightning.com/hach/oral3.GIF was very yellow.

The graph at http://www.silver-lightning.com/hach/topical.GIF was gold 
and it still has most of the absorption below 350 nm but has a broad 
hump that peaks around 420 nm which is what contributes the gold color. 

I believe that the peaks at 200, 215 and 230 nm in all of them 
correspond to particles with sizes of 1, 2 and 3 atoms in a direction.  
That is a 2 atom particle will give the first two peaks, depending of 
whether it is resonating lengthwise or widthwise, and a 3 and 4 atom 
particle with give the second peak, and a 5 atom and larger in some 
modes will give the third peak if the mode is 3 atoms in length.


Marshall


 
N.
 
> Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

> From: d...@deetroy.org
> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:52:36 +0100
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
>
The red laser pointer is to test the finished CS for 'tyndall effect' 
which shows that you actually have silver in your solution. If you 
have, it makes a clear red line through the CS water. dee

>



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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

You're right of course, and I don't think I would have if the status quo hadn't 
changed.  If I get it back to the way it was then I won't need to, but I am 
hoping that the rod cleaning thing was what caused it ... if not, then its back 
to the drawing board!  dee  PS I do miss Wayne and his convoluted way of 
thinking!

On 13 Apr 2010, at 12:44, Neville Munn wrote:

> No worries Dee, It's just that EIS seems to have a mind of it's own and will 
> occasionally throw the odd curve ball at you.  You're right about the science 
> thing of course, but my experience indicates THIS stuff is not a science, 
> it's an art, and unless the researchers pick up the pace, I don't think the 
> painting will be completed in my lifetime .
>  
> It's just EIS throwing down the gaunlet to see if you're good enough to a 
> challenge it.  I don't accept the challenge anymore.
>  
> Praps it's simply because I don't get these issues some speak of that I don't 
> understand the reason for anyone hitting their EIS with HP.  Praps old Wayne 
> was right, I haven't gotten my hands muddied and bloodied enough, but then 
> why should I?  If it ain't broke...don't mess with it .
>  
> N.
>  


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

So after I put in the second drop of H202 this would have made the particles 
smaller because I now have a weaker tyndall effect?  dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 21:56, Marshall Dudley wrote:

> Since Tyndall only show up on particles, I would expect any sample with 
> similar ppms to have more tyndall for higher particle concentrations, 
> although particle size really has much more effect than quantity since the 
> ratio is linear with concentration, but goes up to the 4th power of size.
> 
> Marshall
> 
> Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

It was sitting for 48 hours sol when I noticed it had gone yellow (the 2nd 
batch) I put in one drop of H202 and thats when it went cloudy.  It cleared 
after adding another drop though, and the ppm went up from 8 to 10ppm.  I've 
noticed that after another day sitting, that the tyndall is now weaker.  Is 
this because there are less ions now do you think?  dee

On 13 Apr 2010, at 00:36, sol wrote:

> Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:
>> Oh yes, and I meant to have said that the second batch had a very strong 
>> tyndall even though it had a lower TDS reading than the one with the weak 
>> tyndall. dee
>> 
>>  
> So far as I know that is a typical situation. More particles, weaker 
> conductance (after the CS has stabilized) but you could actually have more 
> silver in that batch. Particles do not have conductance, ions do.
> The stronger and wider and denser the tyndall the more likely a batch will go 
> cloudy when H202 is added, IF you don't add enough.
> From my personal experience, if you add enough it will go clear eventually. 
> Also less likely to go cloudy at all if you let the CS sit for 48 or more 
> hours before adding the H202.
> sol
> 
> 
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RE: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-13 Thread Neville Munn

No worries Dee, It's just that EIS seems to have a mind of it's own and will 
occasionally throw the odd curve ball at you.  You're right about the science 
thing of course, but my experience indicates THIS stuff is not a science, it's 
an art, and unless the researchers pick up the pace, I don't think the painting 
will be completed in my lifetime .

It's just EIS throwing down the gaunlet to see if you're good enough to a 
challenge it.  I don't accept the challenge anymore.

Praps it's simply because I don't get these issues some speak of that I don't 
understand the reason for anyone hitting their EIS with HP.  Praps old Wayne 
was right, I haven't gotten my hands muddied and bloodied enough, but then why 
should I?  If it ain't broke...don't mess with it .

N.

> Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions
> From: d...@deetroy.org
> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:17:47 +0100
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> 
> I think we realise this Neville  and I agree with you up to a point. 
> However, I do like to know - if possible - *why* things happen differently at 
> different times. It is just the way I am and quite honestly, I think this is 
> the reason that science has progressed (or not) since time began. It is 
> people with enquiring minds that change things after all. One thing, I 
> believe this is why some people use H202 i.e it splits the silver particle 
> size up (see Odes site) I only used it to see if the colour would change, (I 
> don't share your tolerance for yellow) but I normally wouldn't use it - and 
> indeed, I have never needed to until now. Thank you for your input - it is 
> always good to share others experience and preferences. dee
> 
> On 13 Apr 2010, at 03:59, Neville Munn wrote:
> 
> > with all I've read over the years I'm totally comfortable with what I 
> > produce, and how I produce it, I'm as cool as a cucumber with not a worry 
> > in the world about what I make and take...clear or yellow.
> > 
> > N.
> > 
> 
> 
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RE: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-13 Thread Neville Munn


OK, well seeing as I know you're fairly cluey on the subject , praps you 
could answer me this then...How does one filter, or decant leaving "bigguns" 
behind when there's nothing in the container TO leave behind?

 

What say you then about density and size if I don't have anything 'left behind' 
to filter or decant?  Can't filter or decant when there's nothing there to 
filter or decant, it's just pure EIS I'm afraid, no 'bigguns', no mud, no 
gravel, no nothing.  If I were to decant at any time all I'd be doing would be 
pouring my solution from one container into another with *nothing* left in the 
container but air.

 

Praps you could take a wild guess as to why I don't have a necessity to do 
this?  Or should I be presumptuous and take a wild guess myself...I produce 
good quality EIS, be it clear or yellow.  The definition of 'good' would be up 
to an individuals interpretation I spose, but I'm quite content with how mine 
looks.

 

Dee passed a friendly comment the other day about my being "laid back", well in 
actuallity, nothing could be further from the truth.  I am somewhat perplexed 
when I hear some have a need to filter or decant when I have never had to do 
that with what I produce, I am left wondering what the hell some people are 
making, or how they're making it?  If I ever needed to do that I would be 
making some serious changes in my process here I can tell you.

 

N.
 
> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 04:29:10 -0400
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> From: odecoy...@windstream.net
> Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions
> 
> 
> 
> The laser just gives you some eyeball idea of particle density and size.
> If you filter by letting the bigguns settle, it'll tell you when it's ready 
> to decant.
> Ode
  
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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-13 Thread Ode Coyote

 The laser just gives you some eyeball idea of particle density and size.
If you filter by letting the bigguns settle, it'll tell you when it's ready 
to decant.
 Also good for playing with the cat while waiting, or shining on the local 
thugs chest at night for grins and giggles.
You know...so the cat will attack him while he's on edge thinking about 
getting shot.

Ode

At 09:52 AM 4/12/2010 -0500, you wrote:
Mine is pretty clear and sometimes yellow.Hardly ever dark unless I let it 
run too long. I was told to try and reach 10 ppm. Am I using the best 
tester? I had wondered what the red laser pointer was for and wrote a man 
who handled them but never heard back with any info. What does it do? I 
want to make the best I can with what I am able to afford.

Thank you.
Leslie

- Original Message -
From: <mailto:scottie592...@yahoo.com>Scotty
To: <mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com>silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

H202 works as I've used it several times to lighten the golden color. But 
Neville is correct yellow is okay in the world of CS. I never throw out 
CS even when I started out and made mud looking CS. I would put it in a 
spray bottle and use it as a disinfectant or water the indoor plants with 
it. CS as low as 3ppm is effective so don't trip on the 8ppm. That's been 
my experience!

Scotty

Have a great day!

--- On Mon, 4/12/10, Dorothy Fitzpatrick  wrote:

From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick 
Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Date: Monday, April 12, 2010, 5:16 AM

Thanks for the reply Neville, but I am afraid I'm not so laid back about 
things as you are  I do like to know the 'whys' and 'wherefores' so 
to speak.  I didn't get a reply about the iodine/CS/DMSO thing which was 
disappointing--but also I now have had two batches of CS go pale yellow 
for no reason.
I realize that this happens and there is no one explanation really for 
it, but I thought I would try the H202 thing with it as this is supposed 
to also be beneficial.  i.e. it splits the colloids into tinier 
fragments (see Ode's site)  The first lot  I dropped in two drops of 35% 
H202 and this went immediately clear.  This had a weak tyndall effect 
however, although it read 10ppm on the TDS meter.

The second lot, I put in one drop of 35% H202 and this had a really 
strong tyndall effect - but the ppm was only 8.  This solution is also 
very slightly cloudy.  I put in another drop of H202 and I think it has 
now cleared.  They both have tiny bubbles at the bottom.  Has anyone any 
ideas or explanations for this?  dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 13:00, Neville Munn wrote:

> Throw the questions out there and you'll soon enough hook one of your 
'guru's' .

>
> Meantime, I'll offer you an individuals assessment on your colour 
thing...don't worry about it, if you're making good quality stuff 
{meaning no mud or gravel laying in the bottom of your storage vessels} 
colour is not an issue.  And the HP thing...shouldn't need it, and 
again, if you're making good quality stuff why would you want to hit it 
with HP?  Don't be phased by colour, unless it's a murky colour.

>
> There ya go Dee, I've filled in a gap til one of your guru's comes 
walzing thru the door .

>
> N.
>

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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

I think we realise this Neville  and I agree with you up to a point.  
However, I do like to know - if possible - *why* things happen differently at 
different times.  It is just the way I am and quite honestly, I think this is 
the reason that science has progressed (or not) since time began.  It is people 
with enquiring minds that change things after all.  One thing, I believe this 
is why some people use H202 i.e it splits the silver particle size up (see Odes 
site)  I only used it to see if the colour would change, (I don't share your 
tolerance for yellow) but I normally wouldn't use it  - and indeed, I have 
never needed to until now.  Thank you for your input - it is always good to 
share others experience and preferences. dee

On 13 Apr 2010, at 03:59, Neville Munn wrote:

> with all I've read over the years I'm totally comfortable with what I 
> produce, and how I produce it, I'm as cool as a cucumber with not a worry in 
> the world about what I make and take...clear or yellow.
>  
> N.
>  

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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

Well the first brew I made - although pale - *was* perfectly clear.  The second 
one was too - until I put in 1 drop of H202 then it went very slightly cloudy.  
When I put in another drop of H202 it went clear.  The first one had a weak 
tyndall and the second one had a strong tyndall, and they both read at 10ppm on 
the TDS meter.  dee

On 13 Apr 2010, at 04:34, Neville Munn wrote:

> [(ok, ions are particles too, but you know what I mean)
> -Yep, yep, know what you mean.
>  
> [So if your brew is highly ionic]
> -Remember it's only going to be highest in ionic content *immediately* after 
> cessation of brewing, things will change while it's sitting until a point of 
> stabilization has been attained, some ions will be lost to collisions thus 
> forming particle clusters or crystals etc.
>  
> [However, a heavy tyndall effect is ok as long as the brew is crystal clear.]
> -And THAT is MY philosophy on EIS, be it clear OR coloured, if it's coloured 
> then that colour must be a pure, clean, crystal clear colour {oxymoron? you 
> should know what I mean though} and transparent as I've explained before, NOT 
> murky, NOT cloudy, and NOT anything else, just pure clear colour {oops, 
> there's that oxymoron again}.
>  


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

Well this is the thing Lesley, mine doesn't usually--even in the severe cold 
weather, so I don't know why this has happened.  Maybe it could be the 
water--although I distill my own under the same circumstances all the time.  It 
does take about four to five hours though, because I have it on reverse 
polarity.  dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 20:01, Leslie wrote:

> Dorothy, Mine doesn't take nearly as long as this. Even battery operated. I 
> also use a TDS meter I guess; came from Utopia Silver. I have a battery 
> operated from them and also an electric one which is faster, but the Utopia 
> one takes about 2 hours.
> - Original Message - From: "Dorothy Fitzpatrick" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 12:52 PM
> Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions
> 
> 


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

Me too, Del.  dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 20:00, Del wrote:

> My understanding is that reflections of the laser light only come from silver 
> "particles", not from silver ions (ok, ions are particles too, but you know 
> what I mean).  So if your brew is highly ionic, you will have only a weak 
> tyndall effect (what I usually get from the SG6).  If the tyndall effect is 
> thick and solid looking, then you have a lot more silver particles in 
> suspension as a colloid (only the ions are truly "dissolved").  However, a 
> heavy tyndall effect is ok as long as the brew is crystal clear.  In fact, I 
> understand that Marshall says it is actually better to have plenty of 
> particles as well as ions.
> 
> As for me, I am always trying for highly ionic CS, with as few particles as 
> possible.
> 
> Del
> -


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RE: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread Neville Munn


[(ok, ions are particles too, but you know what I mean)
-Yep, yep, know what you mean.
 
[So if your brew is highly ionic]
-Remember it's only going to be highest in ionic content *immediately* after 
cessation of brewing, things will change while it's sitting until a point of 
stabilization has been attained, some ions will be lost to collisions thus 
forming particle clusters or crystals etc.
 
[However, a heavy tyndall effect is ok as long as the brew is crystal clear.]
-And THAT is MY philosophy on EIS, be it clear OR coloured, if it's coloured 
then that colour must be a pure, clean, crystal clear colour {oxymoron? you 
should know what I mean though} and transparent as I've explained before, NOT 
murky, NOT cloudy, and NOT anything else, just pure clear colour {oops, there's 
that oxymoron again}.
 
I may not necessarily be a follower of a flock, but I know what I produce and 
how I produce it and I'm not bothered in the slightest about colour, even tea 
coloured following my interpretation of my colour rule.

 

>From my experience controlling colour is not possible {in the home, in a 
>laboratory? who knows?}.  There will be a time when I get coloured results, 
>why? I haven't a clue, just too many things which complicate determination of 
>any ONE thing in an individuals production process so I don't worry about it 
>anymore.  As I said earlier, it doesn't phase me in the slightest, I know it's 
>still excellent quality stuff.

 

There's a place for ions AND particles, and particles of ANY size {within the 
limits I believe we all understand of course}.  I don't see a problem using my 
own interpretation of colour quality.


[I am always trying for highly ionic CS, with as few particles as possible.]

-I suggest you don't let any sit around if that's your preference.  I'm 
encouraged to ask why you prefer high ionic content?  I don't believe you're 
going to have much of a choice if it's not consumed immediately upon cessation 
of brewing.


N.
 
> From: d...@altsystem.com
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions
> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:00:26 -0400
> 
> My understanding is that reflections of the laser light only come from 
> silver "particles", not from silver ions (ok, ions are particles too, but 
> you know what I mean). So if your brew is highly ionic, you will have only 
> a weak tyndall effect (what I usually get from the SG6). If the tyndall 
> effect is thick and solid looking, then you have a lot more silver particles 
> in suspension as a colloid (only the ions are truly "dissolved"). However, 
> a heavy tyndall effect is ok as long as the brew is crystal clear. In fact, 
> I understand that Marshall says it is actually better to have plenty of 
> particles as well as ions.
> 
> As for me, I am always trying for highly ionic CS, with as few particles as 
> possible.
> 
> Del
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Dorothy Fitzpatrick" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:52 PM
> Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions
> 
> 
> Hi Leslie, this is one of the problems I have had i.e. the machine hasn't 
> turned off for over six hours even though the ambient temperature has 
> actually risen here. The ppm has only been six at this point so to reach 
> 10ppm I've had to run it for another two hours. This is for only half a 
> litre, so I'm wondering if this is what is causing the yellowing. I use a 
> simple TDS meter which is not accurate but is near enough. The red laser 
> pointer is to test the finished CS for 'tyndall effect' which shows that you 
> actually have silver in your solution. If you have, it makes a clear red 
> line through the CS water. dee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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RE: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread Neville Munn


You'll have silver in the solution with OR without Tyndall. We know they're 
colloids, but what size are those colloids?
 
OK, let's seriously look at particle size for a moment. 
 
Question 1 would be...At what *minimum* size do particles have a tendancy to 
fall out of solution, or what size will they need to be before gravity pulls 
them out of solution?  I look forward to an answer on this one.  I'd say they'd 
have to be pretty big and suggest larger than 1 micron.  Nobody who produces 
EIS comes anywhere remotely near that dimension. 
 
Question 2 would be...What are the sizes of the smallest AND the largest 
particles in the same solution?  They won't all be the SAME size, there are a 
different sized particles present to my knowledges, we only hear about the 
smallest ones, which is probly why particle size and ion/particle ratios don't 
appear on the bottle, it could come back and bite them on the arse if someone 
gets an analysis done after purchase. {I don't purchase any so I stand to be 
corrected if this statement is not right}.
 
Question 3 would be...What is the size of the largest particle in a yellow 
solution?  Remember, we're talking about nanometres here, not microns, so 
they're pretty small as we all know.
 
When talking about EIS we are talking about nanometre dimensions, not micron 
scale, s, I'd have to ask...If gravity has pulled NOTHING out of a 
solution, be it a clear OR coloured solution, what makes anyone think there is 
any problems with yellow solutions, providing that the colour is pure and 
transparent as I've explained before?  And I know about particle surface area, 
but what makes one think that ALL those particles will be larger than suggested 
by popular press.  You're going to lose some ions to particle clusters or 
crystals after 24 hours of solution sitting anyway, doesn't make it any less 
efficacious.
 
If EIS is being made appropriately one should have particles WAY WAY below 1 
micron.

 
OK, my analysis showed some particles failed to pass thru a .45 micron filter 
paper...What does that mean to me?  Nothing, absolutely nothing, zero, zilch, 
cos agglomeration would have had it's way during the filtering process, s, 
another question could be...What was the ACTUAL size of those particles BEFORE 
being put thru that paper filter?  Logic tells me they would have been WAY WAY 
below 450 nm.  If one follows the popular press, refraction of light on 
colloids not only signifies particles of a particular minimum size, but ALSO 
indicates vast numbers of particles, which one will a person choose to go by, 
size or number, or both?
 
I know the method of producing our EIS today produces the smallest particles 
possible, and any/all particles in any of my solutions are WAY below half a 
micron, and when reading how small a particle must be to pass thru the stomack 
lining, capillaries etc in the circulatory system, organs, even the blood brain 
barrier {can't remember now cos it's years ago I read that material so delete 
the blood brain barrier thing if it's incorrect}, that encourages me to believe 
ALL my silver solutions, clear or coloured, are perfectly bioavailable and 
super efficacious.
 
Final note:  With all the people around the globe producing this stuff, 
including among you people here, does one think for one nanosecond {pun 
intended} that all their/your particles in their/your solutions are of the 
smallest size which popular press 'suggests?' they should be?  Somehow I doubt 
that very much, one must look at this stuff with more logic I think, and relax 
a little more.  Most of the information which abounds in the public domain 
regarding EIS/CS is supposition, inuendo, best guess senario, techno babble, 
trying to suck people in, or just plain BS.  With laboratory analysis I 
understand this much clearer, and with all I've read over the years I'm totally 
comfortable with what I produce, and how I produce it, I'm as cool as a 
cucumber with not a worry in the world about what I make and take...clear or 
yellow.
 
N.
 
> Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions
> From: d...@deetroy.org
> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:52:36 +0100
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> 
The red laser pointer is to test the finished CS for 'tyndall effect' which 
shows that you actually have silver in your solution. If you have, it makes a 
clear red line through the CS water. dee
> 

  
_
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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread sol


Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:

Oh yes, and I meant to have said that the second batch had a very strong 
tyndall even though it had a lower TDS reading than the one with the weak 
tyndall. dee

  
So far as I know that is a typical situation. More particles, weaker 
conductance (after the CS has stabilized) but you could actually have 
more silver in that batch. Particles do not have conductance, ions do.
The stronger and wider and denser the tyndall the more likely a batch 
will go cloudy when H202 is added, IF you don't add enough.
From my personal experience, if you add enough it will go clear 
eventually. Also less likely to go cloudy at all if you let the CS sit 
for 48 or more hours before adding the H202.

sol


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread Marshall Dudley

Since Tyndall only show up on particles, I would expect any sample with 
similar ppms to have more tyndall for higher particle concentrations, 
although particle size really has much more effect than quantity since 
the ratio is linear with concentration, but goes up to the 4th power of 
size.


Marshall

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:

Oh yes, and I meant to have said that the second batch had a very strong 
tyndall even though it had a lower TDS reading than the one with the weak 
tyndall. dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 19:10, Marshall Dudley wrote:

  

If CS is yellow or clouldy it indicates that it has a large number of large 
particles. When you add H2O2 it converts the colloid to a combination of 
dissolved Silver Oxide and 2 particle colloid, which is very small particles 
and will ave very little Tyndall, and be clear.

Marshall

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:




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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread Marshall Dudley


Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:

So is this still good Marshall?  Also, if you add H202 would this 'get rid of' 
the ions and just be colloids?  This would not be ideal I wouldn't have 
thought.  dee
  
No, you end up with about 1/3 colloid and 2/3 ion I believe, but have no 
way to prove it. (that is 1/3 colloid, 1/3 silver oxide and 1/3 silver 
hyroxide).


Marshall

On 12 Apr 2010, at 19:10, Marshall Dudley wrote:

  

If CS is yellow or clouldy it indicates that it has a large number of large 
particles. When you add H2O2 it converts the colloid to a combination of 
dissolved Silver Oxide and 2 particle colloid, which is very small particles 
and will ave very little Tyndall, and be clear.

Marshall

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:




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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread leslie

I do love snow cream but do understand it has to be off the top and not 
yellow! LOL
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: 
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

Don't eat yellow snow!

yellow CS is OK though...

Chuck
Attempt to get a new car for your spouse
--it'll be a great trade!

On 4/12/2010 10:52:46 AM, Leslie (leslie1...@windstream.net) wrote:

Mine is pretty clear and sometimes yellow.Hardly ever dark unless I let it
run too long. I was told to try and reach 10 ppm. Am I using the best
tester? I had wondered what the red laser pointer was for and wrote a man
who handled them but never heard back with any info. What does it do? I
want to make the best I can with what I am able to afford.

Thank you.
Leslie
- Original Message -
From: Scotty [link: mailto:scottie592...@yahoo.com]
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

H202 works as
I've used it several times to lighten the golden color. But Neville is 
correct yellow is okay in the world of CS. I never throw out CS even when 
I started out and made mud looking CS. I would put it in a spray bottle 
and use it as a disinfectant or water the indoor plants with it. CS as low 
as 3ppm is effective so don't

trip on the 8ppm.
That's been my experience!

Scotty
Have a great day!

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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

Oh yes, and I meant to have said that the second batch had a very strong 
tyndall even though it had a lower TDS reading than the one with the weak 
tyndall. dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 19:10, Marshall Dudley wrote:

> If CS is yellow or clouldy it indicates that it has a large number of large 
> particles. When you add H2O2 it converts the colloid to a combination of 
> dissolved Silver Oxide and 2 particle colloid, which is very small particles 
> and will ave very little Tyndall, and be clear.
> 
> Marshall
> 
> Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

So is this still good Marshall?  Also, if you add H202 would this 'get rid of' 
the ions and just be colloids?  This would not be ideal I wouldn't have 
thought.  dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 19:10, Marshall Dudley wrote:

> If CS is yellow or clouldy it indicates that it has a large number of large 
> particles. When you add H2O2 it converts the colloid to a combination of 
> dissolved Silver Oxide and 2 particle colloid, which is very small particles 
> and will ave very little Tyndall, and be clear.
> 
> Marshall
> 
> Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread Leslie

Dorothy, Mine doesn't take nearly as long as this. Even battery operated. I 
also use a TDS meter I guess; came from Utopia Silver. I have a battery 
operated from them and also an electric one which is faster, but the Utopia 
one takes about 2 hours.
- Original Message - 
From: "Dorothy Fitzpatrick" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

Hi Leslie, this is one of the problems I have had i.e. the machine hasn't 
turned off for over six hours even though the ambient temperature has 
actually risen here.  The ppm has only been six at this point so to reach 
10ppm I've had to run it for another two hours.  This is for only half a 
litre, so I'm wondering if this is what is causing the yellowing.  I use a 
simple TDS meter which is not accurate but is near enough.  The red laser 
pointer is to test the finished CS for 'tyndall effect' which shows that you 
actually have silver in your solution.  If you have, it makes a clear red 
line through the CS water.  dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 15:52, Leslie wrote:

Mine is pretty clear and sometimes yellow.Hardly ever dark unless I let it 
run too long. I was told to try and reach 10 ppm. Am I using the best 
tester? I had wondered what the red laser pointer was for and wrote a man 
who handled them but never heard back with any info. What does it do? I 
want to make the best I can with what I am able to afford.

Thank you.
Leslie

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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread Del

My understanding is that reflections of the laser light only come from 
silver "particles", not from silver ions (ok, ions are particles too, but 
you know what I mean).  So if your brew is highly ionic, you will have only 
a weak tyndall effect (what I usually get from the SG6).  If the tyndall 
effect is thick and solid looking, then you have a lot more silver particles 
in suspension as a colloid (only the ions are truly "dissolved").  However, 
a heavy tyndall effect is ok as long as the brew is crystal clear.  In fact, 
I understand that Marshall says it is actually better to have plenty of 
particles as well as ions.


As for me, I am always trying for highly ionic CS, with as few particles as 
possible.


Del
- Original Message - 
From: "Dorothy Fitzpatrick" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions


Hi Leslie, this is one of the problems I have had i.e. the machine hasn't 
turned off for over six hours even though the ambient temperature has 
actually risen here.  The ppm has only been six at this point so to reach 
10ppm I've had to run it for another two hours.  This is for only half a 
litre, so I'm wondering if this is what is causing the yellowing.  I use a 
simple TDS meter which is not accurate but is near enough.  The red laser 
pointer is to test the finished CS for 'tyndall effect' which shows that you 
actually have silver in your solution.  If you have, it makes a clear red 
line through the CS water.  dee






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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread cking001

Don't eat yellow snow!

yellow CS is OK though...

Chuck
Attempt to get a new car for your spouse
--it'll be a great trade!


On 4/12/2010 10:52:46 AM, Leslie (leslie1...@windstream.net) wrote:
> Mine is pretty clear and sometimes yellow.Hardly ever dark unless I let it
> run too long. I was told to try and reach 10 ppm. Am I using the best
> tester? I had wondered what the red laser pointer was for and wrote a man
> who handled them but never heard back with any info. What does it do? I
> want to make the best I can with what I am able to afford.
> 
> Thank you.
> Leslie
> - Original Message -
> From: Scotty [link: mailto:scottie592...@yahoo.com]
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 9:08 AM
> Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions
> 
> 
> H202 works as
> I've used it several times to lighten the golden color. But Neville is 
> correct yellow is okay in the world of CS. I never throw out CS even when I 
> started out and made mud looking CS. I would put it in a spray bottle and use 
> it as a disinfectant or water the indoor plants with it. CS as low as 3ppm is 
> effective so don't
> trip on the 8ppm.
> That's been my experience!
> 
> 
> Scotty
> Have a great day!
> 


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread Marshall Dudley

If CS is yellow or clouldy it indicates that it has a large number of
large particles. When you add H2O2 it converts the colloid to a
combination of dissolved Silver Oxide and 2 particle colloid, which is
very small particles and will ave very little Tyndall, and be clear.

Marshall

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:
Thanks for the reply Neville, but I am afraid I'm not so laid back about things as you are I do like to know the 'whys' and 'wherefores' so to speak. I didn't get a reply about the iodine/CS/DMSO thing which was disappointing--but also I now have had two batches of CS go pale yellow for no reason.
I realize that this happens and there is no one explanation really for it, but I thought I would try the H202 thing with it as this is supposed to also be beneficial. i.e. it splits the colloids into tinier fragments (see Ode's site) The first lot I dropped in two drops of 35% H202 and this went immediately clear. This had a weak tyndall effect however, although it read 10ppm on the TDS meter.

The second lot, I put in one drop of 35% H202 and this had a really strong
tyndall effect - but the ppm was only 8. This solution is also very slightly
cloudy. I put in another drop of H202 and I think it has now cleared. They
both have tiny bubbles at the bottom. Has anyone any ideas or explanations for
this? dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 13:00, Neville Munn wrote:

Throw the questions out there and you'll soon enough hook one of your 'guru's'
.

Meantime, I'll offer you an individuals assessment on your colour thing...don't worry about it, if you're making good quality stuff {meaning no mud or gravel laying in the bottom of your storage vessels} colour is not an issue. And the HP thing...shouldn't need it, and again, if you're making good quality stuff why would you want to hit it with HP? Don't be phased by colour, unless it's a murky colour.

There ya go Dee, I've filled in a gap til one of your guru's comes walzing thru the door .

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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

Hi Leslie, this is one of the problems I have had i.e. the machine hasn't 
turned off for over six hours even though the ambient temperature has actually 
risen here.  The ppm has only been six at this point so to reach 10ppm I've had 
to run it for another two hours.  This is for only half a litre, so I'm 
wondering if this is what is causing the yellowing.  I use a simple TDS meter 
which is not accurate but is near enough.  The red laser pointer is to test the 
finished CS for 'tyndall effect' which shows that you actually have silver in 
your solution.  If you have, it makes a clear red line through the CS water.  
dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 15:52, Leslie wrote:

> Mine is pretty clear and sometimes yellow.Hardly ever dark unless I let it 
> run too long. I was told to try and reach 10 ppm. Am I using the best tester? 
> I had wondered what the red laser pointer was for and wrote a man who handled 
> them but never heard back with any info. What does it do? I want to make the 
> best I can with what I am able to afford.
>  
> Thank you.
> Leslie

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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

Yes I realize this Scotty, but it was the tyndall effect differences and the 
differing ppm in the two samples that was puzzling me.  Thanks for the reply.  
dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 15:08, Scotty wrote:

> H202 works as I've used it several times to lighten the golden color. But 
> Neville is correct yellow is okay in the world of CS. I never throw out CS 
> even when I started out and made mud looking CS. I would put it in a spray 
> bottle and use it as a disinfectant or water the indoor plants with it. CS as 
> low as 3ppm is effective so don't trip on the 8ppm. That's been my experience!
> 
> Scotty
> 
> Have a great day!
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 


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RE: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread Neville Munn

I can tell you what I use the laser for...Nil beam = nil particles, some beam = 
some particles, strong beam = many particles...particle size irrelevant as I'm 
satisfied ALL particles in a clear or yellow solution are bioavailable.  But 
check the water with the laser before production so you can distinguish if it 
changes at all, and monitor it over the next several days.  If you don't see 
any beam after days, don't worry about it, everythings still OK, as long as you 
get a reading you got something in that water, and to keep it simple, that 
'something' must be silver if you're using Distilled Water.

The best you can do is the purest water you can find.  I only use 'el-cheapo' 
DW, oh, and praps a timer so you don't let it brew too long {well, not without 
removing those electrodes to clean them at regular intervals before 
resubmerging them}.

ErrrWhat do you mean by "pretty clear"?  It should be clear as in 'crystal 
clear', with a sheen appearance or 'depth' to the water if you understand, and 
if it's yellow, then that yellow should be only that...yellow, not murky but a 
pure clear and clean transparent yellow.

If none of the above describes what you're making, then praps you'd better 
consult a 'guru' as I know nuttin of what you speak .

N.

From: leslie1...@windstream.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:52:46 -0500

Mine is pretty clear and sometimes yellow.Hardly ever dark unless I let it run 
too long. I was told to try and reach 10 ppm. Am I using the best tester? I had 
wondered what the red laser pointer was for and wrote a man who handled them 
but never heard back with any info. What does it do? I want to make the best I 
can with what I am able to afford.

Thank you.
Leslie

- Original Message - 
From: Scotty 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

H202 works as I've used it several times to lighten the golden color. But 
Neville is correct yellow is okay in the world of CS. I never throw out CS even 
when I started out and made mud looking CS. I would put it in a spray bottle 
and use it as a disinfectant or water the indoor plants with it. CS as low as 
3ppm is effective so don't trip on the 8ppm. That's been my experience!

Scotty

Have a great day!

--- On Mon, 4/12/10, Dorothy Fitzpatrick  wrote:

From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick 
Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Date: Monday, April 12, 2010, 5:16 AM

Thanks for the reply Neville, but I am afraid I'm not so laid back about things 
as you are  I do like to know the 'whys' and 'wherefores' so to speak.  I 
didn't get a reply about the iodine/CS/DMSO thing which was disappointing--but 
also I now have had two batches of CS go pale yellow for no reason.  
I realize that this happens and there is no one explanation really for it, but 
I thought I would try the H202 thing with it as this is supposed to also be 
beneficial.  i.e. it splits the colloids into tinier fragments (see Ode's site) 
 The first lot  I dropped in two drops of 35% H202 and this went immediately 
clear.  This had a weak tyndall effect however, although it read 10ppm on the 
TDS meter.

The second lot, I put in one drop of 35% H202 and this had a really strong 
tyndall effect - but the ppm was only 8.  This solution is also very slightly 
cloudy.  I put in another drop of H202 and I think it has now cleared.  They 
both have tiny bubbles at the bottom.  Has anyone any ideas or explanations for 
this?  dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 13:00, Neville Munn wrote:

> Throw the questions out there and you'll soon enough hook one of your 
> 'guru's' .
>  
> Meantime, I'll offer you an individuals assessment on your colour 
> thing...don't worry about it, if you're making good quality stuff {meaning no 
> mud or gravel laying in the bottom of your storage vessels} colour is not an 
> issue.  And the HP thing...shouldn't need it, and again, if you're making 
> good quality stuff why would you want to hit it with HP?  Don't be phased by 
> colour, unless it's a murky colour.
>  
> There ya go Dee, I've filled in a gap til one of your guru's comes walzing 
> thru the door .
>  
> N.
>  

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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

Thanks for that Del and thinking about it, you may be right about the jar.  I 
tend not to clean it out so maybe I will try this and also the electrodes.  I 
did clean them with a melamine pad a while back so maybe something has stayed 
on from that.  Maybe why its taking longer too.  I know what you mean about 
yellowing being annoying because I am the same.  Because mine is always clear 
it throws me a curved ball when its not!  dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 14:08, Del wrote:

> I am no guru, but I do know about yellow CS (because I have made it more than 
> once).
> I am somewhat of a perfectionist, so yellow CS annoys me.
> I know it means some impurity was present during the brewing process.
> Contrary to Neville, I don't drink it.  It means clumping and larger particle 
> sizes, and I want the most highly ionic content possible.
> In my case, yellow CS is most likely caused by touching something, most 
> likely the electrodes, during cleaning.  I tend to be clumsy.
> It could also be something on the jar or in the water.
> I usually stop it by carefully cleaning the electrodes with 3% h202 
> (drugstore stuff). Careful not to touch.
> I then rinse the bottle a couple of times with distilled water.
> Careful not to touch while doing this.
> The next few batches should be ok.
> If not, I get rid of that jar and try a different or new one.
> If that does not work, I try new electrodes.
> Usually, careful cleaning with h202 and rinsing of the bottle with distilled 
> water takes care of the problem.
> 
> Del
> 


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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread Leslie

Mine is pretty clear and sometimes yellow.Hardly ever dark unless I let it run 
too long. I was told to try and reach 10 ppm. Am I using the best tester? I had 
wondered what the red laser pointer was for and wrote a man who handled them 
but never heard back with any info. What does it do? I want to make the best I 
can with what I am able to afford.

Thank you.
Leslie
  - Original Message - 
  From: Scotty 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 9:08 AM
  Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

H202 works as I've used it several times to lighten the golden color. 
But Neville is correct yellow is okay in the world of CS. I never throw out CS 
even when I started out and made mud looking CS. I would put it in a spray 
bottle and use it as a disinfectant or water the indoor plants with it. CS as 
low as 3ppm is effective so don't trip on the 8ppm. That's been my experience!

Scotty

Have a great day!

--- On Mon, 4/12/10, Dorothy Fitzpatrick  wrote:

  From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick 
  Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Date: Monday, April 12, 2010, 5:16 AM

  Thanks for the reply Neville, but I am afraid I'm not so laid back 
about things as you are  I do like to know the 'whys' and 'wherefores' so 
to speak.  I didn't get a reply about the iodine/CS/DMSO thing which was 
disappointing--but also I now have had two batches of CS go pale yellow for no 
reason.  
  I realize that this happens and there is no one explanation really 
for it, but I thought I would try the H202 thing with it as this is supposed to 
also be beneficial.  i.e. it splits the colloids into tinier fragments (see 
Ode's site)  The first lot  I dropped in two drops of 35% H202 and this went 
immediately clear.  This had a weak tyndall effect however, although it read 
10ppm on the TDS meter.

  The second lot, I put in one drop of 35% H202 and this had a really 
strong tyndall effect - but the ppm was only 8.  This solution is also very 
slightly cloudy.  I put in another drop of H202 and I think it has now cleared. 
 They both have tiny bubbles at the bottom.  Has anyone any ideas or 
explanations for this?  dee

  On 12 Apr 2010, at 13:00, Neville Munn wrote:

  > Throw the questions out there and you'll soon enough hook one of 
your 'guru's' .
  >  
  > Meantime, I'll offer you an individuals assessment on your colour 
thing...don't worry about it, if you're making good quality stuff {meaning no 
mud or gravel laying in the bottom of your storage vessels} colour is not an 
issue.  And the HP thing...shouldn't need it, and again, if you're making good 
quality stuff why would you want to hit it with HP?  Don't be phased by colour, 
unless it's a murky colour.
  >  
  > There ya go Dee, I've filled in a gap til one of your guru's comes 
walzing thru the door .
  >  
  > N.
  >  

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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread Scotty

H202 works as I've used it several times to lighten the golden color. But 
Neville is correct yellow is okay in the world of CS. I never throw out CS even 
when I started out and made mud looking CS. I would put it in a spray bottle 
and use it as a disinfectant or water the indoor plants with it. CS as low as 
3ppm is effective so don't trip on the 8ppm. That's been my experience!

ScottyHave a great day!

--- On Mon, 4/12/10, Dorothy Fitzpatrick  wrote:

From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick 
Subject: Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Date: Monday, April 12, 2010, 5:16 AM

Thanks for the reply Neville, but I am afraid I'm not so laid back about things 
as you are  I do like to know the 'whys' and 'wherefores' so to speak.  I 
didn't get a reply about the iodine/CS/DMSO thing which was disappointing--but 
also I now have had two batches of CS go pale yellow for no reason.  
I realize that this happens and there is no one explanation really for it, but 
I thought I would try the H202 thing with it as this is supposed to also be 
beneficial.  i.e. it splits the colloids into tinier fragments (see Ode's 
site)  The first lot  I dropped in two drops of 35% H202 and this went 
immediately clear.  This had a weak tyndall effect however, although it read 
10ppm on the TDS meter.

The second lot, I put in one drop of 35% H202 and this had a really strong 
tyndall effect - but the ppm was only 8.  This solution is also very slightly 
cloudy.  I put in another drop of H202 and I think it has now cleared.  They 
both have tiny bubbles at the bottom.  Has anyone any ideas or explanations for 
this?  dee

On 12 Apr 2010, at 13:00, Neville Munn wrote:

> Throw the questions out there and you'll soon enough hook one of your 
> 'guru's' .
>  
> Meantime, I'll offer you an individuals assessment on your colour 
> thing...don't worry about it, if you're making good quality stuff {meaning no 
> mud or gravel laying in the bottom of your storage vessels} colour is not an 
> issue.  And the HP thing...shouldn't need it, and again, if you're making 
> good quality stuff why would you want to hit it with HP?  Don't be phased by 
> colour, unless it's a murky colour.
>  
> There ya go Dee, I've filled in a gap til one of your guru's comes walzing 
> thru the door .
>  
> N.
>  

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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions

2010-04-12 Thread Del

I am no guru, but I do know about yellow CS (because I have made it more 
than once).

I am somewhat of a perfectionist, so yellow CS annoys me.
I know it means some impurity was present during the brewing process.
Contrary to Neville, I don't drink it.  It means clumping and larger 
particle sizes, and I want the most highly ionic content possible.
In my case, yellow CS is most likely caused by touching something, most 
likely the electrodes, during cleaning.  I tend to be clumsy.

It could also be something on the jar or in the water.
I usually stop it by carefully cleaning the electrodes with 3% h202 
(drugstore stuff). Careful not to touch.

I then rinse the bottle a couple of times with distilled water.
Careful not to touch while doing this.
The next few batches should be ok.
If not, I get rid of that jar and try a different or new one.
If that does not work, I try new electrodes.
Usually, careful cleaning with h202 and rinsing of the bottle with distilled 
water takes care of the problem.


Del

On 12 Apr 2010, at 13:00, Neville Munn wrote:

Throw the questions out there and you'll soon enough hook one of your 
'guru's' .


Meantime, I'll offer you an individuals assessment on your colour 
thing...don't worry about it, if you're making good quality stuff {meaning 
no mud or gravel laying in the bottom of your storage vessels} colour is 
not an issue.  And the HP thing...shouldn't need it, and again, if you're 
making good quality stuff why would you want to hit it with HP?  Don't be 
phased by colour, unless it's a murky colour.


There ya go Dee, I've filled in a gap til one of your guru's comes walzing 
thru the door .


N.









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Re: CS>where is everyone? now - serious CS questions