[biofuel] Veg. Oil and or soaps from BioD production

[coachgeo3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

Ive read some post in other places where folk have used diesel fuel, 
and waste motor oils to make a paste or inside body part rust 
prevention sprays(like in doors).  Military has run test on diff. 
oils for this purpose, but not veg oils.  

I live in the rust belt so I like the idea.  Anyone done this with 
veg oils.  Would it invite mice and bugs and other creatures to 
invade?

What about the products left after making BioD (soaps etc.) Any of 
that stuff maybe good for this?

I could see swabbing it on under your car in the winter with a big 
wall paper brush.  or just rubber gloves and coat her all up. 




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Re: [biofuel] more on methane digesters

[girl mark]

methane digesters...
Can also be 'run' off of sewage, or animal manure (and just about any other 
wastes, including lawn clippings, kitchen scraps, etc).

I think someone in my circle of renewable energy weirdos has a digester 
that's powered by their toilet (it's a marine macerator toilet in their 
house that feeds the digester).

Mark


At 09:56 PM 12/12/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>It seems a little backwards to do this- after all  the methanol is
>reformulated from methane, no?
>
>I'm reading a great book called 'a chinese biogas manual' about methane
>digesters. they're mostly talking about large-scale (large family or work
>group within a large rural commune). My friend the UC Davis grad student
>studying digesters (and building them, and teaching about them, and
>probably thinking about little but anaerobic bacteria and how to make them
>comfortable!) uses a small-scale design that's based on an old water heater
>as a demo digester. DOn't know how much comes out of one of those but I
>think it's signficant. So there's fairly easy ways of making methane
>without resorting to chemical cracking of hydrocarbons when the bacteria
>can do it for you. One of my buddies wants to build one to digest excess
>glycerine from biodiesel.
>
>Mark
>
>
>
>At 12:44 AM 12/13/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >Well I have been reading about hydrocarbon cracking on the hobbicast
> >list and trying to stir up some information. So I was thinking about
> >biodiesel and wondering if you could do the same with it. Perhaps I can
> >burn biodiesel in my melting furnace! :)
> >Or perhaps biodiesel could be broken into thinner chains to make it's
> >gel point lower. My sister is a chemistry major I'll have to ask her.
> >
> >Shameless endorsement: hobbicast
> ><<http://infoarchive.net 
> /index.php?list=hobbicast>http://infoarchive.net/index.php?list=hobbicast>
> >is archived at the
> >infoarchive 
> <<http://infoarchive.net/>http://infoarchive.net/>, 
> as well as
> >12 other groups.
> >
> >Glenn wrote:
> >
> > >Martin,
> > >
> > >Time to dig out the organic chemistry books again
> > >:)
> > >
> > >In theory it is possible to break methyl esters
> > >or any other hydrocarbon chain into smaller CH4 molecules.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >--
> >---
> >Martin Klingensmith
> ><http://nnytech.net/>http://nnytech.net/
> >http://infoarchive.net/
> >
> >
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> ><http://journeytoforever.org/bi 
> ofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> >Biofuels list archives:
> ><http://archive.nnytech.net/>http://archive. 
> nnytech.net/
> >
> >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yah 
> oo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Biofuels list archives:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
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>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] [m]ethyl esters to methane

[girl mark]

It seems a little backwards to do this- after all  the methanol is 
reformulated from methane, no?

I'm reading a great book called 'a chinese biogas manual' about methane 
digesters. they're mostly talking about large-scale (large family or work 
group within a large rural commune). My friend the UC Davis grad student 
studying digesters (and building them, and teaching about them, and 
probably thinking about little but anaerobic bacteria and how to make them 
comfortable!) uses a small-scale design that's based on an old water heater 
as a demo digester. DOn't know how much comes out of one of those but I 
think it's signficant. So there's fairly easy ways of making methane 
without resorting to chemical cracking of hydrocarbons when the bacteria 
can do it for you. One of my buddies wants to build one to digest excess 
glycerine from biodiesel.

Mark



At 12:44 AM 12/13/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Well I have been reading about hydrocarbon cracking on the hobbicast
>list and trying to stir up some information. So I was thinking about
>biodiesel and wondering if you could do the same with it. Perhaps I can
>burn biodiesel in my melting furnace! :)
>Or perhaps biodiesel could be broken into thinner chains to make it's
>gel point lower. My sister is a chemistry major I'll have to ask her.
>
>Shameless endorsement: hobbicast
><http://infoarchive.net/index.php?list=hobbicast>
> 
>is archived at the
>infoarchive <http://infoarchive.net/>, as well as 
>12 other groups.
>
>Glenn wrote:
>
> >Martin,
> >
> >Time to dig out the organic chemistry books again
> >:)
> >
> >In theory it is possible to break methyl esters
> >or any other hydrocarbon chain into smaller CH4 molecules.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>---
>Martin Klingensmith
>http://nnytech.net/
>http://infoarchive.net/
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Biofuels list archives:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the 
>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] [m]ethyl esters to methane

[martin]

Well I have been reading about hydrocarbon cracking on the hobbicast 
list and trying to stir up some information. So I was thinking about 
biodiesel and wondering if you could do the same with it. Perhaps I can 
burn biodiesel in my melting furnace! :)
Or perhaps biodiesel could be broken into thinner chains to make it's 
gel point lower. My sister is a chemistry major I'll have to ask her.

Shameless endorsement: hobbicast 
 is archived at the 
infoarchive , as well as 12 other groups.

Glenn wrote:

>Martin, 
>
>Time to dig out the organic chemistry books again
>:)
>
>In theory it is possible to break methyl esters
>or any other hydrocarbon chain into smaller CH4 molecules.
>
>  
>


-- 
---
Martin Klingensmith
http://nnytech.net/
http://infoarchive.net/



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Re: [biofuel] [m]ethyl esters to methane

[Glenn]

Martin, 

Time to dig out the organic chemistry books again
:)

In theory it is possible to break methyl esters
or any other hydrocarbon chain into smaller CH4 molecules.

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Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and "The Fuel of the Future"

[Glenn]

Backward compatability does not seem to be at
issue. Japenese manufacturers diesel models do
not seem to have the endurance to go as long as 
European autos and Europeans have been building
with biodiesel in mind since 1996. After x amount
of years, it wont be a problem. 
As far as the legally protected monopolies...I
see a bigger problem with the oil companies and
the government needed to implement change.



Waste (such as grease from homes and
restauraunts) is currently thrown out as
hazardous materials here in New York!
I have been crunching some numbers to see if it
is feasible to take advantage of this.

G

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Re: [biofuel] Embodied energy

[Hakan Falk]

Hi Ken,

I was in contact a while ago with Bill Seavey,

http://bajanet.com/featured_articles/three_little_pigs.htm

He has some experience and can probably give you
references on where to find more material.

Hakan

At 05:40 PM 12/12/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>This is a bit OT, but I don't know where else to address an audience
>with the potential interest level.
>
>I'm planning to build a new house in a rural area, and I'd like to do
>it in an ecologically sound way. The plan at present is 1700 sq.ft.,
>straw bale walls, minimal usage of wood and concrete, etc etc.
>I've run across a measure of environmental impact called "embodied
>energy", which tries to include not only the energy required to
>manufacture the basic material, but also such factors as the energy
>needed to transport the raw and finished materials, the amount of
>labor needed to install (ie, transporting n workers to a site), as well
>as the lifetime of the end result.
>
>Unfortunately, this index  (imprecise at best) DOESN'T typically
>seem to address two issues of particular concern to me -- carbon
>burden (atmospheric), and sustainability (how long will supplies
>of the material last at current consumption rates). Maybe that's
>because the bulk of the work was done in the 70's, when such info
>was less significant or not yet emphasized.
>
>Anyway, does anyone know of RECENT research addressing these
>issues as they pertain to home construction methods? Steel roofs
>vs comp shingle -- concrete slab floor vs wooden joists -- solid
>timber beams vs "engineered wood products", etc.  ?   -K
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
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>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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>
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[biofuel] Embodied energy

[Ken Provost]

This is a bit OT, but I don't know where else to address an audience
with the potential interest level.

I'm planning to build a new house in a rural area, and I'd like to do
it in an ecologically sound way. The plan at present is 1700 sq.ft.,
straw bale walls, minimal usage of wood and concrete, etc etc.
I've run across a measure of environmental impact called "embodied
energy", which tries to include not only the energy required to
manufacture the basic material, but also such factors as the energy
needed to transport the raw and finished materials, the amount of
labor needed to install (ie, transporting n workers to a site), as well
as the lifetime of the end result.

Unfortunately, this index  (imprecise at best) DOESN'T typically
seem to address two issues of particular concern to me -- carbon
burden (atmospheric), and sustainability (how long will supplies
of the material last at current consumption rates). Maybe that's
because the bulk of the work was done in the 70's, when such info
was less significant or not yet emphasized.

Anyway, does anyone know of RECENT research addressing these
issues as they pertain to home construction methods? Steel roofs
vs comp shingle -- concrete slab floor vs wooden joists -- solid
timber beams vs "engineered wood products", etc.  ?   -K


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[biofuels-biz] seeking proposals -- info

[Len Walde]

  Title: Biodiesel: Development of Specific Opportunities 
  Description:  Seeking proposals to facilitate the development, 
demonstration, and commercialization of biodiesel manufacturing plants. 
  Government Agency:  New York State Energy Research and Development 
Authority 
  Schedule: Proposals due January 8, 2003 
  URL: www.nyserda.org


 

With best wishes,

Len

Sigma Energy Engineering, Inc.
Renewable Energy, Process Engineering
Serving Agriculture, Industry & Commerce
  through "Symbiotic Recycling" tm

  E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and "The Fuel of the Future"

[murdoch]

On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:51:21 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>There is way too much debate on whether on not to
>use these "alternate" fuels because of
>sustainability. Clearly, when American farmers
>are paid to not grow crops the issue seems to be
>resolved! Too much debate and not enough action!
>I have been contemplating biodiesel in an older
>Benz but if I wait for the testing, and the
>debates and wait for the meeting of the minds, I
>will be waiting a long time.
>Time to brew up some fat in the garage!

Well, really, I couldn't agree with you more, from a personal "get it
done" perspective.

The debate over sustainability is important perhaps not directly to
your own project but to whether the powers-that-be vote to get over
the umpteen different hurdles that are thrown in the way of alt-fuel
efforts by the petrol industry, and to get the hell out of the way of
legitimate competition in the fuel industry and waste recycling
industry.  

In my estimation, of those hurdles, one of the toughest is in getting
an accurate read on sustainability, alongside a few others such as
backward compatability with legacy machinery, breaking through the
worldwide fuel distribution in-place legally-protected monopolies or
near-monopolies, new environmental issues that may come up with
relatively new technologies, and a few others I guess.

If petrol were sustainable and somewhat more environmentally friendly
to drill, refine and use, we probably wouldn't care nearly as much
about finding alternatives.  It's pretty cheap at present, energy
dense and useful in myriad ways.  Lack of U.S. domestic availability
also contributes to the search for alternatives.

The payment of U.S. farmers not to grow crops doesn't settle the issue
for me because if you're talking about not only feeding all U.S.
citizens but also replacing most U.S. fuel needs with biofuels then
the amounts needed are staggering... not at all just what is needed
for one side (food).

What I like to focus on is that we have waste (such as grease from
homes and restauraunts) which is presently not optimally used.  This,
to me, is a clue in economics that something is a bit amiss.
Theoretically, an enterprising person, in a competitive economy (which
ours is often alleged to be) would be able to spot that "waste" and
make use of it and make money from it, or at least make a go of it.

MM

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Re: [biofuel] Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition

[murdoch]

>>I've heard it said that part of what makes U.S. paper currency unique
>>is that hemp is used in the paper, but I'm not sure if this is true.
>>Maybe the whole matter, the whole giant friggin hypocrisy of it all,
>>makes me so upset that I decided to focus on less upsetting things
>>like the needless throwing away of American Economy and Policy
>>Independence to those who have zero interest in a sustainable future
>>for any decent values, economies, societies, or whatever, particular
>>to those whose focus is to prevent progress in energy technologies.
>
>I can understand that. All those people in jail for no good reason, 
>being brutalized and criminalized, it's outrageous. It's also 
>completely out of step - the other industrialized countries are 
>moving in exactly the opposite direction. The industrial hemp 
>prohibition is also out of step, and will see the US being left 
>behind. Insane, really.

One of the things I did with the energy issues is, corrolary to my
treatment of it, examine how we criticize our Presidents, leaders,
politicians, policy-makers.  I explained that I thought there were
better things to criticize about President Clinton than his sex life
and alleged "criminal behaviour", and that I thought it was a tragic
(and indeed destructive) waste of the country's time to spend our
valuable time during his administration playing "get the President".
I explained that if there were really folks who wanted to criticize
his policies and ideas and whatever, that there were many other areas
that much more cogent and effective criticism could be brought to
bear, such as his National Energy Policies, or lack thereof.

This was a compilation of some of my stuff, which had been written out
a few times in months prior to March 2000:

http://www.herecomesmongo.com/ae/03092000.html

I failed to make sufficiently clear a few other related points.  I
think we all have a responsibility to offer cogent and intelligent
criticism of our leaders if we are to offer criticism at all.  Our
leaders (who are also, in effect, our hired employees, where they are
sort of CEOs and corporate officers and we are their board and their
shareholders and customers) suffer when we fail to offer them the best
possible criticisms of the jobs they are doing, because they can
really improve their performance if the get top-notch criticism that
really gets to the point and hits home.  It's hard to improve yourself
when the criticisms that you're getting are ankle-biting nonsense
unworthy of consideration or time.  

It's easy to criticize the boss or the CEO when you're a peon, but how
do you bring *valuable* criticism to everone's time?

Effective and good criticism is not only well-intended and
high-reaching, but I think it should incorporate some policy of
actively trying to decide for oneself and define "What is a good job"
rather than waiting, reacting to individuals' actions and then
criticizing those actions.  It is asking yourself: 

"Ok, smartypants, you think you're so smart, what would *you* do if
you were thus-and-such office-holder?"  

It is, in the case of criticism of Presidents, understanding that a
primary potentiality and power of the office is in simply having the
Podium for four whole years, having the opportunity to exercise one's
place at the "Bullypulpit" to bring attention to whatever issues one
and one's team think are in need of attention.  Failure to bring
attention to other issues becomes, at that point, a sort of choice.  

If a critic defines an issue as important, and if a President fails to
*discuss* an issue in four years of Office, then a very effective
criticism can be brought to bear at that point, on the issue of
failure to do or say a needed thing, rather than commission of some
allegedly bad or illegal of half-baked act.

An example of such a criticism of a failure-to-discuss, not a great
example, but an example, would be that in the Debates of 92 or so,
between nominee Clinton and President Bush Sr., (Perot may have been
on stage also), President Bush Sr. said something about the Aids
crisis, and it was a nice little statement that I think expressed
desire to do something about a terrible problem, although it was in
the context of running for office and not of exercising the
already-gained powers, and President Clinton responded something like:

"That's a very nice sentiment, but it's too bad that in four years of
office that's the most you've ever said on the issue and pretty much
the first time you've ever bothered to voice such ideas".

How right he was, and that President had previously served eight years
in another administration which was also woefully silent compared to
what it should have voiced.  It was one of the few times in my life I
somewhat felt like standing up and cheering in listening to public
discourse.

Mr. Clinton did go on to try to bring more attention to the AIDS
crisis as President, I guess.  He did not unfortunately go on to do
say  or do enough to discuss a w

[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition

[murdoch]

>>I've heard it said that part of what makes U.S. paper currency unique
>>is that hemp is used in the paper, but I'm not sure if this is true.
>>Maybe the whole matter, the whole giant friggin hypocrisy of it all,
>>makes me so upset that I decided to focus on less upsetting things
>>like the needless throwing away of American Economy and Policy
>>Independence to those who have zero interest in a sustainable future
>>for any decent values, economies, societies, or whatever, particular
>>to those whose focus is to prevent progress in energy technologies.
>
>I can understand that. All those people in jail for no good reason, 
>being brutalized and criminalized, it's outrageous. It's also 
>completely out of step - the other industrialized countries are 
>moving in exactly the opposite direction. The industrial hemp 
>prohibition is also out of step, and will see the US being left 
>behind. Insane, really.

One of the things I did with the energy issues is, corrolary to my
treatment of it, examine how we criticize our Presidents, leaders,
politicians, policy-makers.  I explained that I thought there were
better things to criticize about President Clinton than his sex life
and alleged "criminal behaviour", and that I thought it was a tragic
(and indeed destructive) waste of the country's time to spend our
valuable time during his administration playing "get the President".
I explained that if there were really folks who wanted to criticize
his policies and ideas and whatever, that there were many other areas
that much more cogent and effective criticism could be brought to
bear, such as his National Energy Policies, or lack thereof.

This was a compilation of some of my stuff, which had been written out
a few times in months prior to March 2000:

http://www.herecomesmongo.com/ae/03092000.html

I failed to make sufficiently clear a few other related points.  I
think we all have a responsibility to offer cogent and intelligent
criticism of our leaders if we are to offer criticism at all.  Our
leaders (who are also, in effect, our hired employees, where they are
sort of CEOs and corporate officers and we are their board and their
shareholders and customers) suffer when we fail to offer them the best
possible criticisms of the jobs they are doing, because they can
really improve their performance if the get top-notch criticism that
really gets to the point and hits home.  It's hard to improve yourself
when the criticisms that you're getting are ankle-biting nonsense
unworthy of consideration or time.  

It's easy to criticize the boss or the CEO when you're a peon, but how
do you bring *valuable* criticism to everone's time?

Effective and good criticism is not only well-intended and
high-reaching, but I think it should incorporate some policy of
actively trying to decide for oneself and define "What is a good job"
rather than waiting, reacting to individuals' actions and then
criticizing those actions.  It is asking yourself: 

"Ok, smartypants, you think you're so smart, what would *you* do if
you were thus-and-such office-holder?"  

It is, in the case of criticism of Presidents, understanding that a
primary potentiality and power of the office is in simply having the
Podium for four whole years, having the opportunity to exercise one's
place at the "Bullypulpit" to bring attention to whatever issues one
and one's team think are in need of attention.  Failure to bring
attention to other issues becomes, at that point, a sort of choice.  

If a critic defines an issue as important, and if a President fails to
*discuss* an issue in four years of Office, then a very effective
criticism can be brought to bear at that point, on the issue of
failure to do or say a needed thing, rather than commission of some
allegedly bad or illegal of half-baked act.

An example of such a criticism of a failure-to-discuss, not a great
example, but an example, would be that in the Debates of 92 or so,
between nominee Clinton and President Bush Sr., (Perot may have been
on stage also), President Bush Sr. said something about the Aids
crisis, and it was a nice little statement that I think expressed
desire to do something about a terrible problem, although it was in
the context of running for office and not of exercising the
already-gained powers, and President Clinton responded something like:

"That's a very nice sentiment, but it's too bad that in four years of
office that's the most you've ever said on the issue and pretty much
the first time you've ever bothered to voice such ideas".

How right he was, and that President had previously served eight years
in another administration which was also woefully silent compared to
what it should have voiced.  It was one of the few times in my life I
somewhat felt like standing up and cheering in listening to public
discourse.

Mr. Clinton did go on to try to bring more attention to the AIDS
crisis as President, I guess.  He did not unfortunately go on to do
say  or do enough to discuss a w

Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and "The Fuel of the Future"

[Hakan Falk]

Yes, what are you waiting for? It is "ready for use".

Hakan

At 04:51 PM 12/11/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>There is way too much debate on whether on not to
>use these "alternate" fuels because of
>sustainability. Clearly, when American farmers
>are paid to not grow crops the issue seems to be
>resolved! Too much debate and not enough action!
>I have been contemplating biodiesel in an older
>Benz but if I wait for the testing, and the
>debates and wait for the meeting of the minds, I
>will be waiting a long time.
>Time to brew up some fat in the garage!



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[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and "The Fuel of the Future"

[murdoch]

On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:51:21 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>There is way too much debate on whether on not to
>use these "alternate" fuels because of
>sustainability. Clearly, when American farmers
>are paid to not grow crops the issue seems to be
>resolved! Too much debate and not enough action!
>I have been contemplating biodiesel in an older
>Benz but if I wait for the testing, and the
>debates and wait for the meeting of the minds, I
>will be waiting a long time.
>Time to brew up some fat in the garage!

Well, really, I couldn't agree with you more, from a personal "get it
done" perspective.

The debate over sustainability is important perhaps not directly to
your own project but to whether the powers-that-be vote to get over
the umpteen different hurdles that are thrown in the way of alt-fuel
efforts by the petrol industry, and to get the hell out of the way of
legitimate competition in the fuel industry and waste recycling
industry.  

In my estimation, of those hurdles, one of the toughest is in getting
an accurate read on sustainability, alongside a few others such as
backward compatability with legacy machinery, breaking through the
worldwide fuel distribution in-place legally-protected monopolies or
near-monopolies, new environmental issues that may come up with
relatively new technologies, and a few others I guess.

If petrol were sustainable and somewhat more environmentally friendly
to drill, refine and use, we probably wouldn't care nearly as much
about finding alternatives.  It's pretty cheap at present, energy
dense and useful in myriad ways.  Lack of U.S. domestic availability
also contributes to the search for alternatives.

The payment of U.S. farmers not to grow crops doesn't settle the issue
for me because if you're talking about not only feeding all U.S.
citizens but also replacing most U.S. fuel needs with biofuels then
the amounts needed are staggering... not at all just what is needed
for one side (food).

What I like to focus on is that we have waste (such as grease from
homes and restauraunts) which is presently not optimally used.  This,
to me, is a clue in economics that something is a bit amiss.
Theoretically, an enterprising person, in a competitive economy (which
ours is often alleged to be) would be able to spot that "waste" and
make use of it and make money from it, or at least make a go of it.

MM

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Re: [biofuel] The big picture

[murdoch]

>>I see a problem here that I did not see before.  The term "cracker",
>>which is what hackers are recommending we use when we wish to connote
>>"hacker gone to the dark side" or some such, has some slight built-in
>>vernacular ambiguities.  Is one talking about a safe cracker?  Is one
>>trying to connote drug use?  ("Crack cocaine").  Is there some sort of
>>racist ambiguity?  (I'm not sure why but I seem to recall "cracker"
>>being some sort of racial epithet from one of the races to another).
>
>"White trash".
>
>>Maybe there could be a new term for a malicious hacker.  Or maybe just
>>get better at using cracker.  Yeah, that sounds ok now that I think it
>>through a little.  We'll see.
>
>Should be, if it gets used enough. The wonderful Jargon Lexicon gets 
>into the background as usual - only back to Shakespeare this time, 
>LOL! Looks like what King John called a cracker one would call an AH 
>these days.

Yes, it's LOL, but it would help explain why so many of the supposedly
clueless (and many are not) are reluctant to use the word "cracker"
and distinguish between that and "hacker".


>>cracker n.
>>
>>One who breaks security on a system. Coined ca. 1985 by hackers in 
>>defense against journalistic misuse of hacker (q.v., sense 8). An 
>>earlier attempt to establish `worm' in this sense around 1981-82 on 
>>Usenet was largely a failure.
>>
>>Use of both these neologisms reflects a strong revulsion against the 
>>theft and vandalism perpetrated by cracking rings. The neologism 
>>"cracker" in this sense may have been influenced not so much by the 
>>term "safe-cracker" as by the non-jargon term "cracker", which in 
>>Middle English meant an obnoxious person (e.g., "What cracker is 
>>this same that deafs our ears / With this abundance of superfluous 
>>breath?" - Shakespeare's King John, Act II, Scene I) and in modern 
>>colloquial American English survives as a barely gentler synonym for 
>>"white trash".
>>
>>While it is expected that any real hacker will have done some 
>>playful cracking and knows many of the basic techniques, anyone past 
>>larval stage is expected to have outgrown the desire to do so except 
>>for immediate, benign, practical reasons (for example, if it's 
>>necessary to get around some security in order to get some work 
>>done).

It is asking a lot of non-involved folks to make these laborious
distinctions if it's even *expected* that a "real" hacker *will have
done some "benign" cracking*.  This is not just a matter of
sensationalistic journalists at fault.  Hackers are going to have to
do better than that, if they wish the entire world to make these
laborious distinctions.

>>Thus, there is far less overlap between hackerdom and crackerdom 
>>than the mundane reader misled by sensationalistic journalism might 
>>expect. Crackers tend to gather in small, tight-knit, very secretive 
>>groups that have little overlap with the huge, open poly-culture 
>>this lexicon describes; though crackers often like to describe 
>>themselves as hackers, most true hackers consider them a separate 
>>and lower form of life.
>>
>>Ethical considerations aside, hackers figure that anyone who can't 
>>imagine a more interesting way to play with their computers than 
>>breaking into someone else's has to be pretty losing. Some other 
>>reasons crackers are looked down on are discussed in the entries on 
>>cracking and phreaking. See also samurai, dark-side hacker, and 
>>hacker ethic. For a portrait of the typical teenage cracker, see 
>>warez d00dz
>
>That's right, blame it all on the press. :-)

I understood pretty much all these distinctions before reading this,
and I still have not made up my mind as to which terms I will use
going forward.

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[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Film on the ethanol issue in Australia

[murdoch]

On the "secrecy" article, I was just thinking the same thing.  I'm not
even sure others here are of like mind with me, that this one
Australian who is pushing unlabeled over-10% mixtures is possibly
poisoning the well for all nascient Australian biofuel efforts, but
that's my tentative opinion and that we've already failed to do enough
because Australia is *not* an insignificant country in nascient
alternative energy efforts.

I bet that, privately, it doesn't bother larger Petroleum interests in
Australia that this jerk is doing damage to the long-term credibility
of efforts to sell ethanol in Australia.  I'd like others' opinions,
if possible.

MM

>I think we should help Mark if we can.

>>>Thank you for your response. My screenplay is somewhat 
>>>controversial as it mirrors what is happening in the halls of 
>>>power. 

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Re: [biofuel] Film on the ethanol issue in Australia

[murdoch]

On the "secrecy" article, I was just thinking the same thing.  I'm not
even sure others here are of like mind with me, that this one
Australian who is pushing unlabeled over-10% mixtures is possibly
poisoning the well for all nascient Australian biofuel efforts, but
that's my tentative opinion and that we've already failed to do enough
because Australia is *not* an insignificant country in nascient
alternative energy efforts.

I bet that, privately, it doesn't bother larger Petroleum interests in
Australia that this jerk is doing damage to the long-term credibility
of efforts to sell ethanol in Australia.  I'd like others' opinions,
if possible.

MM

>I think we should help Mark if we can.

>>>Thank you for your response. My screenplay is somewhat 
>>>controversial as it mirrors what is happening in the halls of 
>>>power. 

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Re: [biofuel] Re: Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition

[Kris Book]

Ater doing a little reading, I must adjust my statement
slightly but, Harmon you are way off base here.

In this country both hemp and marijuana come from the
cannabis sativa plant. And while hemp is taken from the
female stem as well as the male, the male's fibers are much
stronger, so are more highly valued. I can't find the link
but, I read that high quality Manila rope comes exclusively
from male plants.

Like Keith said, there is 0.3% THC in hemp fiber and the
drug czar claimed on TV the other day that today's
marijuana has up to 30%. How high do you think you'll get
on something that is 90 times weaker that what people are
smoking. You can't sell male plant for any price, only an
idiot would smoke something that will only give you a
headache instead of a high. Do a few drops of alcohol make
a cocktail?

If you still think you are correct, then produce something
more than just calling my statement nonsense. I know that
you'll counter with,"Internet sites are not proof of
anything", but since we are using the Internet for this
discussion, I will accept web sites that support your
statement. Please read:
http://www.ladybugsparlor.com/links/fiber.htm

kris


--- "Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kris Book
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hemp is the term used for the male and marijuana is the
> > term used to describe the female cannabis plant. There
> are
> > many subspecies but, all females are psychoactive and
> all
> > males are not.
>  
> 
>  Kris, this is total nonsense -- where ever did you
> get such a
> silly idea? The leaves of the male pot plants will stone
> you just as
> much as the leaves of the females. Growers usually kill
> the males only
> because they don't want the females to go to seed, which
> reduces their
> output, and because the males are rather sparsely leaved
> and don't
> have any of the big flowers ("bud") that brings the
> highest price. 
>  And the females, neither flower nor leaves, of the
> hemp plants do
> nothing at all no matter how much of them you smoke. 
>  If you don't believe me, try posting that comment on
> alt.drugs.pot.cultivation once and see how much laughter
> it produces.
> Of course, the purists there will tell you not to bother
> with the
> leaves of either male *or* female, that only the bud is
> worthwhile,
> but there are plenty of people who happily utilize the
> male leaves
> while waiting for the females to mature.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


__
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[biofuel] [m]ethyl esters to methane

[martin]

Is it possible to convert biodiesel to a "natural gas" such as methane or 
propane? If so, how?

It's been two years since chemistry class for me so I can't really remember how 
it would be done.

---
Martin Klingensmith
http://nnytech.net/
http://infoarchive.net/



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[biofuel] Re: cold weather starting

[Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Bryan Fullerton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
   Geez, if you need ether to start it, you need to rebuild the engine. Or, if 
you use much ether on a good engine, you *will* be rebuilding it sooner, not 
later.


> kinda worn out. If you intend to use your diesel where the air is really
> cold, below 15 degrees F, I would suggest that you double check your
> batteries. I think most diesels have two batteries to start. since cranking

   Neither my '82 diesel vanagon nor my '82 diesel datsun pickup have two 
batteries, and they start fine. Nor do I use a plug in. heater. Make sure the 
glow plugs are good and use synthetic oil and you'll be okay. Most diesels 
*don't* have two batteries, at least not the car diesels. Some Canadian diesel 
pickups ran 24v systems and they have two batteries, and GM with the total 
crappola "diesel" engine they put in their cars for a few years had to use two 
batteries, and even then they wouldn't start, but those were junk design from 
the word go.
Probably if you need all those batteries to start your vehicle, you need to 
buy a new starter. Just having bad bushing and or brushes in the starter can do 
you in. 





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[biofuel] Compromise

[nortonvillars <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

I have been following the discussion boards on biodiesel and the 
issues are actually simple.

The 99% of diesel buyers in the US and Canada are fleets (trucking, 
buses, trains, etc.) who will demand and get high quality 
specification product from larger producers.  This is fine.

The extremely small (1%) of automotive, pickup truck and SUV diesel 
owners can make their own supply and it will be a variable quality 
most of the time and that is fine. Many of the small diesels are 
older GM, Mercedes, etc. designs that can withstand variable quality 
and the owners enjoy making their own supply.

This is much like the early days when kerosene was refined from the 
natual product rock oil.  It was a decentralized industry with no 
specifications.  Lamps were designed for whale oil or coal oil.  Over 
time the industry consolidated as specifications became more common 
for kerosene.  Home (space) heating with oil will be replaced by 
natural gas in the Northeast, so the potential use of biofuel in 
heating will end as gas is cheaper, abundant and cleaner.

Europe is different with its large diesel automobile base (about 
40%).  But the biodiesel manufacturers set high standards years ago 
to meet the needs of high performance diesel engines.

Over time, as the US and Canada mix changes, so will the 
consolidation in the manufacturing base with high quality production 
replacing lower quality. Newer diesel engines will come from Japan 
and Europe. This is the natural progress of technology.

There will always be a place for small producers.

Good luck.



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[biofuel] Re: cold weather starting

[Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Michael Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've actually just bought my first diesel car, and this is one of my 
> main concerns (as I said, I don't really know anything!) - If I go 
> skiing and can't plug my car in, for the day or sometimes even for a few 
> days, do you have tips on starting it when I want to get home? 

   Switch to synthetic oil and you won't need to plug it in. Also make sure 
your glow plugs are working properly. 

> winter with a diesel. When I get that far, I'm also planning to mix 
> biodiesel with petro diesel to reduce cold weather starting problems. Is 
> that a good solution?

   People using biodiesel who live in cold climes need to add some dino-diesel 
or kerosene into the biodiesel to keep it from solidifying. Or they put a 
heater on the tank and fuel lines, just as users of SVO need to do. 

   



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Re: [biofuels-biz] Skin on biodiesel

[girl mark]

If it is mono and doglycerides you should be able to take some of the skin 
and reprocess it with more methoxide and produce esters. If it is soap you 
should not be able to do this. If it is tallow esters this test shouldn't 
tell you much.

Mark




At 03:01 PM 12/12/2002 +, you wrote:
>The skin will be mono/diglycerides that have not been reacted. If you work it
>out stoichometrically (using molar quantities from a known fatty acid profile)
>your yield of products should be:
>
>(Esters) minus (glycerol) minus (catalyst) minus (molar excess of MeOH).
>
>So you if have less esters than a predited (molar) yield of esters with skin
>forming you are therefore running sub-optimally.
>
>Diglycerides should be soluble in the ester layer, monoglycerides 
>solubilise in
>water.
>
>Dave
>
>rpg wrote:
>
> > - Original Message -
> > From: girl mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > > Paul,
> > > Is tallow biodiesel more likely to form soaps? I always assumed that skin
> > > is a sign of soaps, though I haven't made any fuel that skinned in a long
> > > time. This would be washed out.
> > > Mark
> >
> > Mark, can't answer that one, have noticed skinning on BD from both veg oil
> > and animal fat, but have not compared levels.  Did notice however that the
> > skin will redissolve if stirred back in. Skin even washes ok.
> >
> > Remember some time back I was posting about the thickish white layer 
> between
> > BD and wash water on settling after mist washing. You asked what made me
> > think it was not emulsion. Turns out it was emulsion, a sample of it is
> > separating to BD, smaller intermediate layer and water after standing for
> > about a month. Origionally sampled it with intent of getting it 
> analysed, no
> > need now.
> >
> > Regards,  Paul Gobert.
> >
> > Biofuels at Journey to Forever
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Biofuel at WebConX
> > http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
> > List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
> > http://archive.nnytech.net/
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>--
>David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>Reduce - reuse - recycle
>
>University of Wales
>BioComposites Centre
>Deiniol Road
>Bangor
>Gwynedd
>LL57 2UW
>http://www.bc.bangor.ac.uk
>Tel +44 (0)1248-370588
>Fax: +44 (0)1248-370594
>
>
>
>Biofuels at Journey to Forever
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>Biofuel at WebConX
>http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
>List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
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>
>
>
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[biofuel] RE: Furnace Fine Tuning

[Myles Twete]

Thom-
With our home furnace burning near 100% biodiesel over the past year, we
have at times observed both pump drip and "mini explosion" as you mention on
startup.  In our case, the "mini explosion" I believe occurs when the pump
shutoff solenoid valve is leaking through.  At startup, I believe this valve
keeps the pump from drawing fuel until the 10-second purge cycle is done.
If the spark is also delayed, then while the pump is turning in purge mode,
it may be in fact blowing fuel into the furnace without spark.  When the
spark happens, kaboom.  After shutdown, the same valve works to keep fuel
from draining back to the tank, if underground, like ours.  In our case, we
do occassionally have "mini-kaboom" starts, and, we also have failed starts
if the furnace hasn't turned on in the last several hours.  This could also
be a symptom associated with a leaky solenoid valve seal since drainback
could have occurred over time.  We also have nozzle drip...which you haven't
mentioned.

As to combustion, we haven't measured it, but it looks very complete with
the Riello burner and it's amazing turbulator and metered airflow.

As to pump drip, our old Sundstrand (predecessor to Suntec) developed pump
shaft seal drip early on after using even B40 level of biodiesel.  It was an
old pump, but still, perhaps the rubber spring-loaded shaft seals on the
Suntec/Sundstrands are inadequate with biodiesel, for rubber reasons and/or
other reasons.

If it helps.

Myles Twete
Portland, Or.


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Re: [biofuel] Low temperature carbonization

[Greg and April]

- Original Message -
From: "Marc de Piolenc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 08:05
Subject: [biofuel] Low temperature carbonization



>
> If restrictions get that tight, pretreating the coal will probably still
> be cheaper than buying char, with all the processing that has to have.
> Just impregnating coal with a carbonate, for instance, will do a pretty
> good job of converting sulfur to easily scrubbable compounds.
>

How do you figure that pretreating is going to be more cost effective?

>
>> "Not true, The char could be used to power the proceses in the first
>>place
>> making it less costly, think about it use a by product of of your own
>>production, to lower your cost of production. Excess heat from
>>. production
>> could also then be used to generate electricity to lower your cost from
>> that
>> vantage point additionaly."
>
> Sorry, but you're still going to end up with a lot of unsalable char.
>

Why do you say it is  not saleable? It is a fuel, that is has little to no
volatiles. This makes it useful in many applacations.

>
> I'm not offended - only amused. I've made a career out of digging up
> "shelved" technology and evaluating it for possible revival. That's why
> I recognized this process in the first place! And it is not "negative"
> to recognize the limitations of a process - at least not in my book.
>

What are the limitations?

>
> A really poor analogy, as the use of LTC persisted in Germany long after
> its abandonment in the States...but it has been abandoned there, too,
> despite Germany's near total absence of petroleum resources.
>

Probably because for time it is/was easier to buy from the oil producing
nations, that does not mean, it should be abandoned all together.

> People are often willing to "take a chance" on making money! If the
> process has real merit, somebody's going to want to profit from it.
>

If they know about it.

>
> Sigh. What if it really IS no good? Or more correctly, uneconomical
> under current conditions.
>

It it?  The problem is I don't know of any up to date information from a
neutral party. Do you ?

>
> Any evidence that this is happening? I rather doubt it, as any adverse
> publicity about LTC would be ...publicity, and would make people aware
> of a rather obscure technology.

According to the article there was that problem at that time. Perhaps I
should have said 'might' if it were to happen today, at the same time many
things today have been kept hush-hush.  It is lot easier to keep things that
are obscure quiet, than it is to keep things that are not obscure quiet.
This can be done by ensuring that they remain obscure.

Greg H.



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Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and "The Fuel of the Future"

[Hakan Falk]

Dear MM,

I think that you are right in that future innovative methods
and solution must be pursued. It is however a little bit
scaring if you look at it. What we mostly discuss for
used are Biofuel, Windmills, Passive solar etc., all are
"new technologies" that goes more than 100 years back.
Other "new technologies" like fuel cells etc. goes 50 to
80 years back.

Then we find that corporate and political interests actually
turned us away from going on more sustainable and cleaner
routes 60 to 100 years ago. I sincerely hope that we can
correct all this stupidity and go forward with better ways of
doing things. I have my doubts, if I look at the present
leaders.

Hakan


At 03:27 PM 12/11/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Ad hoc comment:
>
>One of the issues that tugs at me when I have seen recent "debate" (or
>quasi-science or shouting) over whether some of the biofuels are
>"sustainable" is that the fuel itself, if it is a relatively simple
>standardizeable not-horrifically-toxic chemical, is a somewhat
>*separate issue* from how it is derived.
>
>So, a debate over the sustainability of ethyl alcohol as a "fuel of
>the future", whether it took place in the 30s or today, should include
>the concept that while it may well be presently sourced from much
>agriculture or semi-agriculture, I'd think we could somehow
>*manufacture* such a fuel, going forward, by new innovative methods as
>well.  What is to prevent us, with all the scientists we have sitting
>around, from taking some solar-derived electricity and trying to make
>such relatively simple chemical compounds as ethyl alcohol from widely
>available chemicals such as water and CO2 and O2 and what-have-you.
>
>MM



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Re: [biofuel] Article about biofuel business

[Hakan Falk]

Dear Daniel,

The subject was biofuel and I see them as renewable
biological sources. I was driving Taxis on NG, 40 years
ago in Sweden, but it is not a biofuel. The country that
adopted NG the most is probably The Netherlands and
I have often driven NG fueled cars there. They also have
resources of natural gas.

Keith initiated a very interesting discussion about
synthetic fuels and the production of oil from coal.
All of this are especially interesting for the coal rich
Germany. It is however not biofuel. I do not think that
Germany lacks agricultural area, it is a pseudo argument.
You do not hear this in The Netherlands who have
most people per square kilometer of the countries in
the world.

I also had an other restriction that excludes many
alternative that are possible to develop. That is the
"ready for use" condition. This means that it could
be generally implemented in a time span of 20 to
40 years. Ethanol and Biodiesel/SVO can use
existing consumer equipment and fit into existing
distribution systems.

If you start a business based on biofuel it must be
possible to sell and use it now. If not, it is not a
business. In fact, it was a very interesting exercise
to take that perspective, because it becomes an
acid test for the "ready for use" perspective.

I have so much that I want to learn and so much
that I want to communicate. I will continue and
you will probably find the tings you missed in an
other piece for our web site.

Hakan


At 04:22 PM 12/12/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>Thanks Hakan for this very interesting view on
>biofuels!
>But may I give you some impression fo the german
>point of view?
>First of all you did not mention Methanol,
>Fischer-Tropsch-Fuels (FT-fuels) and Biogas.
>Ethanol is not discussed in Germany probably of
>the lack of agricultural aera.
>I will not talk about Methanol because I think it
>will not have any chance.
>So what about FT-fuels? This fuel is promoted in
>Germany by federal institutions and by the
>automobil industry - namely DC and VW. This
>medium-term opportunity needs no chances in the
>motors, it can be made from every organic material
>but it needs bigger productions sites. On the
>other hand it is very energy intensive in
>production and the technology is still in
>development. Here a big discussion is going on.
>Biogas also now is in the discussion: cleaned and
>enriched up to Natural Gas and bringing it to a
>filling station or feeding it into a gas pipeline
>may be an interesting thing. This is already done
>in Sweden and Switzerland. There are cars driving
>with NG, many new NG filling stations will be
>built in nearest future, the liberalisation of the
>EU Gas market is in progress and the technology is
>available. The fraction of NG cars will increase.
>Producing electricity from biogas in Germany is
>economically very interesting because of a refund
>assured by law. And biogas can be produced in very
>small units.
>Biodiesel does not have the best reputation cause
>of the problems of monocultures. But it takes 0,55
>% of the fuel market in Germany.
>So these are some points what is in the discussion
>in Germany. But Germany is not the biggest country
>although it has the most people in the Europe. A
>unique solution can only be found within Europe,
>here Ethanol might be leading.
>Another thing is the opening of the EU towards the
>east, with it big aeras of land and cheap labor.
>
>So, this is a little input - hastily written.
>
>Greetings
>
>Daniel
>
>
>Hakan Falk schrieb:
> > Hi Keith and others,
> >
> > I am now close to publish,
> > http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofuelorg.shtml
> > I am still insecure about "Ethanol, big or small?" and will probably take
> > this as a separate issue all together. Politics and perceptions are very
> > important for a business, so I am not sure yet. Please look at it and give
> > me your comments, both good and bad.
> >
> > Hakan
> >
> >
> >
> > **
> > If you want to take a look on a project
> > that is very close to my heart, go to:
> > http://energysavingnow.com/
> > http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card
> > http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me
> > http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site
> > **
> > "A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to
> > how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world
> > being round that agitated people, but that the world
> > wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has
> > been sold to the masses over generations, the truth
> > will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving
> > lunatic."  -- Dresden James
> >
> > "No flag is large enough to cover the shame of
> > killing innocent people" -- Howard Zinn
> >
> > "Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years.
> > We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may
> > wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm
> > wrinkles the soul." - Unknown
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://jo

[biofuels-biz] Hemp Fuel Conspitacy?

[Tim Castleman]

A couple of years ago I read a small article in a newspaper announcing then 
president Clinton's Executive Order 13134 related to increasing the use of 
bio-based products in specific measurable ways. This spurred a vision of the 
role hemp might play in such an economy, and my attendance at the 1999 Hemp 
Industries Association Conference in Canada. 
Following the conference, and inspired by what I had learned, I sequestered 
myself away for several months to research the issue in depth. (My kids are 
still mad at me over this).
A good part of my results, and resulting plans, can be found at 
www.fuelandfiber.com - including a rather ragged paper I wrote that 
specifically addresses 'Hemp as biomass for energy'. 

In short there are a few issues that came to light:
* Hempseed oil fetchs up to $30 gallon in the marketplace - as a food 
supplement.
* Hempseed production is very low compared to MANY other oil crops.
* Hemp itself is a Nitrogen USER, not fixer as so many claim.
* Hemp as straight biomass only offers about 3-5 tons per acre.
* Hemp bast fiber is far more valuable in textiles, composites or even paper 
than as a source of cellulose for ethanol.

And of course, the granddaddy of them all, it is illegal to grow in the US. 

So the argument that hemp would be more economically sound than petroleum has 
been is hard to swallow. Petroleum has been free to suck out of the earth for a 
few decades now, which is much less bother than cultivating, planting, 
harvesting and processing a crop. 

Besides that, considering the volume of liquid fuels we use today, just imagine 
how much water would have been used to grow enough hemp to make this much! The 
Gulf of New Mexico 'Dead Zone' would probably encircle the earth by now!

So, this argument, while sexy and all that, is rather hard to back up with 
facts. Nevertheless, I saw the POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS involved with the legal 
status as a sort of 'back door' into the 'system' that had the potential to 
affect the greatest measure of change needed to dislodge the existing power 
base, installing instead leadership favorable to bio-resource development. Of 
course this led to the Hemp US Flag project (www.hempusflag.com) as well as a 
number of other initiatives I have undertaken. 

One of these was to make biodiesel out of hempseed oil on the steps of the 
California State Capitol, assisted by a fine fellow named Ian Watson from the 
bay area and Todd Swearingen of Appal Energy. VoteHemp paid for the 15 gallons 
of hempseed oil, and we pulled it off on a sweltering August day. 
http://www.fuelandfiber.com/Archive/News/Legalize/BioDemo/biodemo.html

Oops, I am rambling. I need to get back to work. In summary, from my 
perspective, hemp has a role to play in the energy scene more as a political 
issue than as a good feedstock for energy. The exception would be to employ the 
Fuel and Fiber Company Method - which is to fraction the material as a first 
step - retaining the high value bast fiber and only using the remaining 66% of 
biomass for energy and other co-products. 

Ok, a word about co-products. As has been correctly pointed out here, the 
majority of profits from a barrel of oil come from the co-products. The fuel 
itself is actually quite low value, comparatively. The same principal will 
apply to the Biorefinery envisioned. We will produce ethanol more as a public 
benefit than as a profitable venture. The profits will be found in the 
co-products and value adding done during processing.

Lastly, I wanted to invite you to register and login to the all new FaFCo 
portal, www.fuelandfiber.com - I have set up a whole set of tools for you to 
use. Perhaps there is something useful there?

Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Biofuel at WebConX
http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
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Re: [biofuel] Article about biofuel business

[Daniel West]

Thanks Hakan for this very interesting view on 
biofuels!
But may I give you some impression fo the german 
point of view?
First of all you did not mention Methanol, 
Fischer-Tropsch-Fuels (FT-fuels) and Biogas. 
Ethanol is not discussed in Germany probably of 
the lack of agricultural aera.
I will not talk about Methanol because I think it 
will not have any chance.
So what about FT-fuels? This fuel is promoted in 
Germany by federal institutions and by the 
automobil industry - namely DC and VW. This 
medium-term opportunity needs no chances in the 
motors, it can be made from every organic material 
but it needs bigger productions sites. On the 
other hand it is very energy intensive in 
production and the technology is still in 
development. Here a big discussion is going on.
Biogas also now is in the discussion: cleaned and 
enriched up to Natural Gas and bringing it to a 
filling station or feeding it into a gas pipeline 
may be an interesting thing. This is already done 
in Sweden and Switzerland. There are cars driving 
with NG, many new NG filling stations will be 
built in nearest future, the liberalisation of the 
EU Gas market is in progress and the technology is 
available. The fraction of NG cars will increase.
Producing electricity from biogas in Germany is 
economically very interesting because of a refund 
assured by law. And biogas can be produced in very 
small units.
Biodiesel does not have the best reputation cause 
of the problems of monocultures. But it takes 0,55 
% of the fuel market in Germany.
So these are some points what is in the discussion 
in Germany. But Germany is not the biggest country 
although it has the most people in the Europe. A 
unique solution can only be found within Europe, 
here Ethanol might be leading.
Another thing is the opening of the EU towards the 
east, with it big aeras of land and cheap labor.

So, this is a little input - hastily written.

Greetings

Daniel


Hakan Falk schrieb:
> Hi Keith and others,
> 
> I am now close to publish,
> http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofuelorg.shtml
> I am still insecure about "Ethanol, big or small?" and will probably take 
> this as a separate issue all together. Politics and perceptions are very 
> important for a business, so I am not sure yet. Please look at it and give 
> me your comments, both good and bad.
> 
> Hakan
> 
> 
> 
> **
> If you want to take a look on a project
> that is very close to my heart, go to:
> http://energysavingnow.com/
> http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card
> http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me
> http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site
> **
> "A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to
> how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world
> being round that agitated people, but that the world
> wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has
> been sold to the masses over generations, the truth
> will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving
> lunatic."  -- Dresden James
> 
> "No flag is large enough to cover the shame of
> killing innocent people" -- Howard Zinn
> 
> "Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years.
> We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may
> wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm
> wrinkles the soul." - Unknown
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
> 
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 


-- 


Mit freundlichen Gr٤en

Daniel West

__

Zentrum fŸr Sonnenenergie- und 
Wasserstoff-Forschung (ZSW)
Regenerative Kraftstoffe und Verfahren (REG)
Center of Solar Energy and Hydrogen Research
Renewable Fuels and Processes

Netzwerk "Regenerative Kraftstoffe" - ReFuelNet

Dipl.-Ing. Daniel West

Hessbruehlstra§e 21C, D-70565 Stuttgart

Tel.: ++49-711-7870-249 / Fax: -200
eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.zsw-bw.de
http://www.refuelnet.de
__


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RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting

[Ryan Morgan]

Try buying an Optima battery:
http://www.optimabatteries.com/
and don't forget to put some winter additive in your diesel (there's nothing
worse than spending the winter in the parking lot due to a frozen fuel line)
:)

-Original Message-
From: Michael Henry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:49 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] cold weather starting


I've actually just bought my first diesel car, and this is one of my
main concerns (as I said, I don't really know anything!) - If I go
skiing and can't plug my car in, for the day or sometimes even for a few
days, do you have tips on starting it when I want to get home? Is this
something I need to worry about? Sounds like you have lots of
experience, and I really don't know what to expect going into my first
winter with a diesel. When I get that far, I'm also planning to mix
biodiesel with petro diesel to reduce cold weather starting problems. Is
that a good solution?

While it may not be a real problem at all, It may be a percieved problem
with diesel - for people like me who don't know much about it but what
they've heard. The effect can be the same.

Mike

Hakan Falk wrote:

>I had diesel cars the last 26 years as private vehicle, both in Sweden and
>after I moved to middle and southern Europe. In Sweden it was often minus
>25 Celsius in the winter and minus 15 Celsius in Central Europe. The only
>time I had serious problem was one time when I was skiing in Sweden and it
>was minus 40 Celsius for a couple of days. Had to heat it up and then put
>20% Kerosene in the tank. Could not ski anyway, since the risk for bad
>frostbites was too big.
>
>Hakan
>
>PS. during the same period I had gasoline company cars.
>
>
>At 10:34 AM 12/10/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>I don't really know what I'm talking about, but from a Canadian
>>perspective I think diesel is widely considered a "dirty" fuel (and it
>>sounds like the truth of this is what you're researching), but also it's
>>hard to start when it's minus 20 degrees, which is a real, if
>>surmountable, problem in this climate   - this second point would also
>>apply to some areas in the US.
>>
>>Mike
>>
Hello All,

I'm looking for a concise description of the differences between
European
(global if you know) and US diesel fuel (BTU, Sulphur content,
refinement
processes, etc), exhaust systems (Catalytic converters, emission
controls,
etc), as well as any other significant combustion and/or emissions
differences.  I'm trying to put together a complete but digestible
description of global diesel usage as well as the reasons for it's
notable
lack of presence in the US.

Thanks,
Thom

>>>Hello Thom
>>>
>>>Good for you. Can't help much, but these might be useful:
>>>
>>>"Fuel Lubricity Reviewed", Paul Lacey, Southwest Research Institute,
>>>Steve Howell,
>>>MARC-IV Consulting, Inc., SAE paper number 982567, International Fall
>>>
>>Fuels and
>>
>>>Lubricants Meeting and Exposition, October 19-22, 1998, San
>>>Francisco, California.
>>>
>>>Lubricity Benefits
>>>http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/Lubricity.PDF
>>>
>>>Best
>>>
>>>Keith
>>>
>>>
>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>>
>>>Biofuels list archives:
>>>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>>>
>>>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
>>Biofuels list archives:
>>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>>
>>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Biofuels list archives:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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>
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>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[biofuel] Re: Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition

[Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kris Book <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hemp is the term used for the male and marijuana is the
> term used to describe the female cannabis plant. There are
> many subspecies but, all females are psychoactive and all
> males are not.
 

 Kris, this is total nonsense -- where ever did you get such a
silly idea? The leaves of the male pot plants will stone you just as
much as the leaves of the females. Growers usually kill the males only
because they don't want the females to go to seed, which reduces their
output, and because the males are rather sparsely leaved and don't
have any of the big flowers ("bud") that brings the highest price. 
 And the females, neither flower nor leaves, of the hemp plants do
nothing at all no matter how much of them you smoke. 
 If you don't believe me, try posting that comment on
alt.drugs.pot.cultivation once and see how much laughter it produces.
Of course, the purists there will tell you not to bother with the
leaves of either male *or* female, that only the bud is worthwhile,
but there are plenty of people who happily utilize the male leaves
while waiting for the females to mature.  





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[biofuel] Re: Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition

[Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kris Book <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hemp is the term used for the male and marijuana is the
> term used to describe the female cannabis plant. There are
> many subspecies but, all females are psychoactive and all
> males are not.
> 
 Kris, where the heck did you get this nonsense from?
Psychoactivity has absolutely nothing to do with sex. Pot growers kill
 the male plants because they don't want them to pollenate the
females, and because the males themselves don't produce any of the
highly potent flowers or "bud". The leaves of the male plant will get
you just as high as the leaves of the female plant.
And neither the leaves nor the flowers of either male or female
hemp plants will do anything for you no matter how much you smoke of it. 

  



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[biofuels-biz] Skin on biodiesel

[David Preskett]

The skin will be mono/diglycerides that have not been reacted. If you work it
out stoichometrically (using molar quantities from a known fatty acid profile)
your yield of products should be:

(Esters) minus (glycerol) minus (catalyst) minus (molar excess of MeOH).

So you if have less esters than a predited (molar) yield of esters with skin
forming you are therefore running sub-optimally.

Diglycerides should be soluble in the ester layer, monoglycerides solubilise in
water.

Dave

rpg wrote:

> - Original Message -
> From: girl mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > Paul,
> > Is tallow biodiesel more likely to form soaps? I always assumed that skin
> > is a sign of soaps, though I haven't made any fuel that skinned in a long
> > time. This would be washed out.
> > Mark
>
> Mark, can't answer that one, have noticed skinning on BD from both veg oil
> and animal fat, but have not compared levels.  Did notice however that the
> skin will redissolve if stirred back in. Skin even washes ok.
>
> Remember some time back I was posting about the thickish white layer between
> BD and wash water on settling after mist washing. You asked what made me
> think it was not emulsion. Turns out it was emulsion, a sample of it is
> separating to BD, smaller intermediate layer and water after standing for
> about a month. Origionally sampled it with intent of getting it analysed, no
> need now.
>
> Regards,  Paul Gobert.
>
> Biofuels at Journey to Forever
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Biofuel at WebConX
> http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
> List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
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--
David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc

[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Reduce - reuse - recycle

University of Wales
BioComposites Centre
Deiniol Road
Bangor
Gwynedd
LL57 2UW
http://www.bc.bangor.ac.uk
Tel +44 (0)1248-370588
Fax: +44 (0)1248-370594



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[biofuel] Low temperature carbonization

[Marc de Piolenc]

"I don't see why it could not compete with the LS coal, because is has
even less sulfur that the coal does. As air restrictions get tighter and
tighter even LS coal is going to become less cost effective."

If restrictions get that tight, pretreating the coal will probably still
be cheaper than buying char, with all the processing that has to have.
Just impregnating coal with a carbonate, for instance, will do a pretty
good job of converting sulfur to easily scrubbable compounds.


> As for using
> high-sulfur coals, I have my doubts. Whether the sulfur is driven off
> during coking,
> thus needing to be scrubbed out of the gases and/or
> liquids, or remains in the char, it still must be cleaned up, which
> imposes a further cost no matter how it is done.

"It may not need to be cleaned up. For instance, if the oil ( with the
sulfur ) might be used in the plastics or rubber industry, because in
those
areas sulfur is used to stablize many different types of plastic and
rubber."

Now THAT's a thought - but only if the sulfur ends up in the liquids. If
it ends up in the gas, you're still stuck with scrubbing.

> The gas and liquid hydrocarbons produced are completely irrelevant to
> the argument, as, without a market for the char, the entire cost of
> operating the process, including cracking or separating the tars,
> scrubbing the sulfur and giving away or otherwise disposing of the char,
> must be charged to what CAN be sold, making the retort gas and
> combustible oils far too expensive.

"Not true, The char could be used to power the proceses in the first
place
making it less costly, think about it use a by product of of your own
production, to lower your cost of production. Excess heat from
production
could also then be used to generate electricity to lower your cost from
that
vantage point additionaly."

Sorry, but you're still going to end up with a lot of unsalable char.

> I believe this is why
> low-temperature coking was abandoned as a commercial fuel production
> process in the first place, and absent a very large increase in the cost
> of petroleum (leading stationary power producers to switch to solid
> fuel), I can't see it coming back.
>

"There are several possible reasons, that it may not come back."

2) ""If it is so good then why are we not using it now? " attitude ( not
to belittle you or cause hurt feelings, your own post contains this
negativity ). "

I'm not offended - only amused. I've made a career out of digging up
"shelved" technology and evaluating it for possible revival. That's why
I recognized this process in the first place! And it is not "negative"
to recognize the limitations of a process - at least not in my book.

" Well then
years later came WW2 and the German V2 rocket, after the war the allied
scientist ( American ) in particular, interviewing the German rocket
scientist asked how they ( the Germans ) got started, the Germans
basically
said that the American scientist were idiots, because they didn't listen
to
one of their own (Goddard)."

A really poor analogy, as the use of LTC persisted in Germany long after
its abandonment in the States...but it has been abandoned there, too,
despite Germany's near total absence of petroleum resources.

People are often willing to "take a chance" on making money! If the
process has real merit, somebody's going to want to profit from it.

"5) Big oil has a lot of money to 'grease' government in to thinking
that it is some how bad."

Sigh. What if it really IS no good? Or more correctly, uneconomical
under current conditions.

"6) Companies that own / mine low sulfur coal feel threatened, and they
use money just like big oil."

Any evidence that this is happening? I rather doubt it, as any adverse
publicity about LTC would be ...publicity, and would make people aware
of a rather obscure technology.

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Re: [biofuel] Furnace Fine Tuning

[Thom Strange]

Thanks Hakan

At 03:21 AM 12/12/2002 +0100, you wrote:

>With biodiesel it can be a problem that it does not burn out. A smaller
>nozzle for a shorter flame and if possible higher pressure, could fix it.
>You will probably get a 20-30% lower heating capacity from your burner, but
>they are mostly 2-3 times over sized anyway. It will run longer periods
>with less pollution and that is positive. I Germany they have restrictions
>now on how many start/stop that can be tolerated, this to control pollution
>and force a more serious sizing.
>
>Hakan
>
>At 03:42 PM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
> >Greetings,
> >
> >We have a very competent furnace / boiler technician that is having a
> >difficult time fine tuning the burner for complete combustion.  We are
> >burning B100 in the furnace and that is the only fuel that the system has
> >ever seen.
> >
> >Symptoms are as follows:
> >1)Sometimes it sounds like a mini explosion when the unit fires up
> >2)There is soot from incomplete combustion
> >3)There is a slight drip from the suntec pump
> >
> >I would love to be able to say that we burn B100 trouble free.  Any
> >pertinent suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Thom
> >
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
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> >
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>
>
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Thomas Strange
Solar Market - Talmage Solar Engineering
25 Limerick Road Suite 1
Arundel, ME  04046
(207) 985-0088
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Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting

[Hakan Falk]

You cannot ski in minus 40 degree Celsius, if you do not cover all parts of 
your skin. I sincerely suggest that you stay inside and do not take the 
risk of severe skin damages. If you get such extremely low temperatures, 
mix you diesel with 10 to 20% kerosene, but only for that occasion. In 
temperatures above minus 25 degree Celsius, you will normally have no 
problems.

At minus 40 degree Celsius you will probably have some sort of problems 
with all automobiles, independent of type of fuel.

Hakan


At 10:49 AM 12/11/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I've actually just bought my first diesel car, and this is one of my
>main concerns (as I said, I don't really know anything!) - If I go
>skiing and can't plug my car in, for the day or sometimes even for a few
>days, do you have tips on starting it when I want to get home? Is this
>something I need to worry about? Sounds like you have lots of
>experience, and I really don't know what to expect going into my first
>winter with a diesel. When I get that far, I'm also planning to mix
>biodiesel with petro diesel to reduce cold weather starting problems. Is
>that a good solution?
>
>While it may not be a real problem at all, It may be a percieved problem
>with diesel - for people like me who don't know much about it but what
>they've heard. The effect can be the same.
>
>Mike
>
>Hakan Falk wrote:
>
> >I had diesel cars the last 26 years as private vehicle, both in Sweden and
> >after I moved to middle and southern Europe. In Sweden it was often minus
> >25 Celsius in the winter and minus 15 Celsius in Central Europe. The only
> >time I had serious problem was one time when I was skiing in Sweden and it
> >was minus 40 Celsius for a couple of days. Had to heat it up and then put
> >20% Kerosene in the tank. Could not ski anyway, since the risk for bad
> >frostbites was too big.
> >
> >Hakan
> >
> >PS. during the same period I had gasoline company cars.
> >
> >
> >At 10:34 AM 12/10/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >>I don't really know what I'm talking about, but from a Canadian
> >>perspective I think diesel is widely considered a "dirty" fuel (and it
> >>sounds like the truth of this is what you're researching), but also it's
> >>hard to start when it's minus 20 degrees, which is a real, if
> >>surmountable, problem in this climate   - this second point would also
> >>apply to some areas in the US.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> Hello All,
> 
> I'm looking for a concise description of the differences between European
> (global if you know) and US diesel fuel (BTU, Sulphur content, refinement
> processes, etc), exhaust systems (Catalytic converters, emission 
> controls,
> etc), as well as any other significant combustion and/or emissions
> differences.  I'm trying to put together a complete but digestible
> description of global diesel usage as well as the reasons for it's 
> notable
> lack of presence in the US.
> 
> Thanks,
> Thom
> 
> >>>Hello Thom
> >>>
> >>>Good for you. Can't help much, but these might be useful:
> >>>
> >>>"Fuel Lubricity Reviewed", Paul Lacey, Southwest Research Institute,
> >>>Steve Howell,
> >>>MARC-IV Consulting, Inc., SAE paper number 982567, International Fall
> >>>
> >>Fuels and
> >>
> >>>Lubricants Meeting and Exposition, October 19-22, 1998, San
> >>>Francisco, California.
> >>>
> >>>Lubricity Benefits
> >>>http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/Lubricity.PDF
> >>>
> >>>Best
> >>>
> >>>Keith
> >>>
> >>>



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Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting

[Hakan Falk]

Kim,

It is nice to hear a ski lover, because in these temperatures it
is very dangerous if you do not now what you are doing. But
you are right, it is nobody in the slope and with the right snow
and sunny it can be great. Already at minus 25 C you have
minus 60 C in the slope, if you consider the windchill factor.
It is dangerous if you are not covered up properly and already
after a few hundred meters skiing, your ski mask have an ice
layer from your breath. Melts in the lift although.

When we were skiing I did the same, let it running. But I slept
in my Caravan that was parked at the skiing area and no garage
for the car during the night. The caravan had heater and additional
heaters plug in to the electricity pole, plus the engine heater for
the car. Below freezing at floor level and nearly sauna at ceiling,
but no real problems.

Hakan

At 07:33 AM 12/12/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>Actually, when I lived in Canada, we did ski in -40.  It was great
>because there were so few people on the hill.  I loved it.  BTW, -40 is
>both C & F, it is the point where they meet.
>
>I had a 1/4 ton truck that was diesel, we used to just leave it run when
>it got that cold.
>
>Bright Blessings,
>Kim
>
>Hakan Falk wrote:
>
> >
> > You cannot ski in minus 40 degree Celsius, if you do not cover all parts of
> > your skin. I sincerely suggest that you stay inside and do not take the
> > risk of severe skin damages. If you get such extremely low temperatures,
> > mix you diesel with 10 to 20% kerosene, but only for that occasion. In
> > temperatures above minus 25 degree Celsius, you will normally have no
> > problems.
> >



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[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and "The Fuel of the Future"

[murdoch]

Ad hoc comment:

One of the issues that tugs at me when I have seen recent "debate" (or
quasi-science or shouting) over whether some of the biofuels are
"sustainable" is that the fuel itself, if it is a relatively simple
standardizeable not-horrifically-toxic chemical, is a somewhat
*separate issue* from how it is derived.

So, a debate over the sustainability of ethyl alcohol as a "fuel of
the future", whether it took place in the 30s or today, should include
the concept that while it may well be presently sourced from much
agriculture or semi-agriculture, I'd think we could somehow
*manufacture* such a fuel, going forward, by new innovative methods as
well.  What is to prevent us, with all the scientists we have sitting
around, from taking some solar-derived electricity and trying to make
such relatively simple chemical compounds as ethyl alcohol from widely
available chemicals such as water and CO2 and O2 and what-have-you.

MM

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Re: [biofuel] The big picture

[Keith Addison]

Hi MM

> >There you go - a hacker in sheeple's clothing, LOL! You're certainly
> >no slave, MM. I wonder if the real slaves aren't the people at the
> >top of the ladder, the ones who think they're in control - such as
> >Kenneth Lay, hopeless failures at life, what a waste.
>
>thx, and an interesting take on Lay.

... et al. Are these people really to be considered successful human 
beings? It seems to me they'll just have to come back and try again. 
Perhaps as a cockroach. My friend Prema, a Tibetan Buddhist nun, once 
remarked rather conversationally: "It's not often a person gets the 
chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste 
such an opportunity." :-)

> >Hack:
> >http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/hack.html
> >
> >Hacker:
> >http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/hacker.html
>
>I see a problem here that I did not see before.  The term "cracker",
>which is what hackers are recommending we use when we wish to connote
>"hacker gone to the dark side" or some such, has some slight built-in
>vernacular ambiguities.  Is one talking about a safe cracker?  Is one
>trying to connote drug use?  ("Crack cocaine").  Is there some sort of
>racist ambiguity?  (I'm not sure why but I seem to recall "cracker"
>being some sort of racial epithet from one of the races to another).

"White trash".

>Maybe there could be a new term for a malicious hacker.  Or maybe just
>get better at using cracker.  Yeah, that sounds ok now that I think it
>through a little.  We'll see.

Should be, if it gets used enough. The wonderful Jargon Lexicon gets 
into the background as usual - only back to Shakespeare this time, 
LOL! Looks like what King John called a cracker one would call an AH 
these days.

>cracker n.
>
>One who breaks security on a system. Coined ca. 1985 by hackers in 
>defense against journalistic misuse of hacker (q.v., sense 8). An 
>earlier attempt to establish `worm' in this sense around 1981-82 on 
>Usenet was largely a failure.
>
>Use of both these neologisms reflects a strong revulsion against the 
>theft and vandalism perpetrated by cracking rings. The neologism 
>"cracker" in this sense may have been influenced not so much by the 
>term "safe-cracker" as by the non-jargon term "cracker", which in 
>Middle English meant an obnoxious person (e.g., "What cracker is 
>this same that deafs our ears / With this abundance of superfluous 
>breath?" - Shakespeare's King John, Act II, Scene I) and in modern 
>colloquial American English survives as a barely gentler synonym for 
>"white trash".
>
>While it is expected that any real hacker will have done some 
>playful cracking and knows many of the basic techniques, anyone past 
>larval stage is expected to have outgrown the desire to do so except 
>for immediate, benign, practical reasons (for example, if it's 
>necessary to get around some security in order to get some work 
>done).
>
>Thus, there is far less overlap between hackerdom and crackerdom 
>than the mundane reader misled by sensationalistic journalism might 
>expect. Crackers tend to gather in small, tight-knit, very secretive 
>groups that have little overlap with the huge, open poly-culture 
>this lexicon describes; though crackers often like to describe 
>themselves as hackers, most true hackers consider them a separate 
>and lower form of life.
>
>Ethical considerations aside, hackers figure that anyone who can't 
>imagine a more interesting way to play with their computers than 
>breaking into someone else's has to be pretty losing. Some other 
>reasons crackers are looked down on are discussed in the entries on 
>cracking and phreaking. See also samurai, dark-side hacker, and 
>hacker ethic. For a portrait of the typical teenage cracker, see 
>warez d00dz

That's right, blame it all on the press. :-)

> >Hacking's similar to fettling - all the old factories used to have a
> >fettler, when the machines broke he'd come and do a quick-fix so
> >they'd work and production could continue until the engineers could
> >get around to doing a proper repair job. A good fettler was highly
> >skilled and very ingenious.
>
>I had some tailoring done this week, and it just reminded me of how
>certain occupations are terribly useful and may well be with us even a
>million years from now.  One thing is it reminded me that even on Star
>Trek they have Tailors 300 years into the future (though no barbers
>prominently featured that I saw anyway).

I knew some people in Hong Kong who'd fled the Communist victory in 
1949 with literally nothing. (Unlike the poor Shanghai industrialists 
who arrived destitute and penniless with nothing but a few 
container-loads of gold...) Two come to mind. One, the editor of a 
Chinese newspaper when I knew him, did bring something, a set of 
Chinese chessmen and a board - not bulky, Chinese chess is different, 
the pieces are more like checkers pieces, round, flat disks, and the 
board is a piece of printed paper, it all easily fits in a pocket. He

Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting

[Kim & Garth Travis]

Actually, when I lived in Canada, we did ski in -40.  It was great 
because there were so few people on the hill.  I loved it.  BTW, -40 is 
both C & F, it is the point where they meet.

I had a 1/4 ton truck that was diesel, we used to just leave it run when 
it got that cold.

Bright Blessings,
Kim

Hakan Falk wrote:

> 
> You cannot ski in minus 40 degree Celsius, if you do not cover all parts of
> your skin. I sincerely suggest that you stay inside and do not take the
> risk of severe skin damages. If you get such extremely low temperatures,
> mix you diesel with 10 to 20% kerosene, but only for that occasion. In
> temperatures above minus 25 degree Celsius, you will normally have no
> problems.
>


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Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel

[rpg]

- Original Message -
From: girl mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Paul,
> Is tallow biodiesel more likely to form soaps? I always assumed that skin
> is a sign of soaps, though I haven't made any fuel that skinned in a long
> time. This would be washed out.
> Mark

Mark, can't answer that one, have noticed skinning on BD from both veg oil
and animal fat, but have not compared levels.  Did notice however that the
skin will redissolve if stirred back in. Skin even washes ok.

Remember some time back I was posting about the thickish white layer between
BD and wash water on settling after mist washing. You asked what made me
think it was not emulsion. Turns out it was emulsion, a sample of it is
separating to BD, smaller intermediate layer and water after standing for
about a month. Origionally sampled it with intent of getting it analysed, no
need now.

Regards,  Paul Gobert.



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Re: [biofuel] The big picture

[Kim & Garth Travis]

see inserted comments

murdoch wrote:


> I see a problem here that I did not see before.  The term "cracker",
> which is what hackers are recommending we use when we wish to connote
> "hacker gone to the dark side" or some such, has some slight built-in
> vernacular ambiguities.  

TLC had a  program on hackers, last night.  They called them white hats 
and black hats, or criminals and angels.  They had Captain Zap on the 
show, he loves getting paid to hack, nowadays.

> I had some tailoring done this week, and it just reminded me of how
> certain occupations are terribly useful and may well be with us even a
> million years from now.  One thing is it reminded me that even on Star
> Trek they have Tailors 300 years into the future (though no barbers
> prominently featured that I saw anyway).

You missed Mr. Mott?  A blue skinned alien who loves to explain how the 
Enterprise should be run.  Riker says: 'well yeah, he has a lot to say, 
but he can really cut hair.'

Bright Blessings,
Kim


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Re: [biofuel] kologisch ohne kosteuer

[Keith Addison]

>something of interest
>
> http://www.rerorust.de/

Quite a lot of scepticism about him.

Do these look that good to you?

Cocked or gummed parts? My engine got checked.
http://www.rerorust.de/rapsoel/check2_uk.htm

Aargh! His links jump... Hit the English flag on the home page, then 
hit "Cocked or gummed parts? My engine got checked." and look at the 
photographs.

Keith


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[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Secrecy over car-rotting petrol additive (ethanol!!!)

[murdoch]

It sounds like it would help the nascient Australian Ethanol industry
if there was a 10 percent legal limit installed until such time as
flex-fuel vehicles were made available which could more readily (under
full warranty) process and use blends of 20 percent and more.  At that
point higher-than-10 percent mixes could be offered more clearly
labeled.  I think a person has a right to know, as accurately as
possible, what he or she is buying and putting in their car.



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Re: [biofuel] Secrecy over car-rotting petrol additive (ethanol!!!)

[murdoch]

It sounds like it would help the nascient Australian Ethanol industry
if there was a 10 percent legal limit installed until such time as
flex-fuel vehicles were made available which could more readily (under
full warranty) process and use blends of 20 percent and more.  At that
point higher-than-10 percent mixes could be offered more clearly
labeled.  I think a person has a right to know, as accurately as
possible, what he or she is buying and putting in their car.



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[biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel

[goat industries]

If there are any "drying oils" present in the oil (such as linseed, fish or
flax-oil), oxidation of
the relevant unsaturated fatty acids can be expected to form a polymeric
film on the
biodiesel/air interface. It reforms every time the surface is broken until
it is all reacted with
the air. I wonder if that could be an alternative explanation? Michael Allen

have noticed that raw biodiesel from tallow readily forms a skin as it
cools, but the same BD after washing does not.
Paul Gobert.

... yes drying oils sound like a possible explanation and Paul's
contribution kind of kicks my suggestion out of touch! This could be
confirmed by picking up a bit of the skin with a spatula a checking for
solubility in water  Paddy



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[biofuels-biz] ZAP! Electric Vehicles

[Keith Addison]

Kirk sent me this:

http://www.zapworld.com/news/zapcar.htm
ZAP! Electric Vehicles

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[biofuel] ZAP! Electric Vehicles

[Keith Addison]

Kirk sent me this:

http://www.zapworld.com/news/zapcar.htm
ZAP! Electric Vehicles

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Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and "The Fuel of the Future"

[Glenn]

There is way too much debate on whether on not to
use these "alternate" fuels because of
sustainability. Clearly, when American farmers
are paid to not grow crops the issue seems to be
resolved! Too much debate and not enough action!
I have been contemplating biodiesel in an older
Benz but if I wait for the testing, and the
debates and wait for the meeting of the minds, I
will be waiting a long time.
Time to brew up some fat in the garage!

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Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel

[girl mark]

Paul,
Is tallow biodiesel more likely to form soaps? I always assumed that skin 
is a sign of soaps, though I haven't made any fuel that skinned in a long 
time. This would be washed out.
Mark

At 09:39 PM 12/11/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>Michael,
>have noticed that raw biodiesel from tallow readily forms a skin as it
>cools, but the same BD after washing does not.
>Paul Gobert.
>
>
>Biofuels at Journey to Forever
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>Biofuel at WebConX
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Re: [biofuel] Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition

[Keith Addison]

Hi MM

>On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 02:16:42 +0900, you wrote:
>
> >This isn't very authoritative - not much detail, no references to
> >support it. Anyone know any more about this?
> >
> >Best
> >
> >Keith
>
>Short answer: I don't know any more about it, but do not dismiss it
>entirely out of hand, as a partial explanation.  I doubt that it is
>the only reason Hemp is so irrationally criminalized in the U.S.

Some very interesting papers around of the testimony that preceded 
the prohibition, mainly by the guy who'd run the alcohol prohibition 
program. Needed a new empire, I guess. His evidence is total BS. 
Sheer bureaucratic momentum explains a lot of things that look like 
conspiracies - you don't make a career out of solving problems, but 
you do make one out of maintaining them. But the petroleum and 
chemical interests were right in there too, in this case.

>Long Answer: Regardless of any given theory for the underlying "real"
>reasons Hemp is excluded from legalized commerce in the states, it's
>something that irks me.

Yes, it's mindless. At best.

>When I was deciding as to which issues to
>really settle in on and research and focus on, in a narrower way, for
>things that would make for good discussion and activism (i.e., my
>"hacking"), opposing the Drug War was on my short list, but I
>ultimately chose some other areas.
>
>I think that U.S. exportation of our "War On Drugs" (i.e., our War on
>U.S. Citizens, Entrepeneurs and Citizens of other countries) is one of
>the most powerful examples anyone could name of horrific unjust slimy
>US Policy, not only domestic policy but Foreign as well.
>
>We have exported Hate, Destruction, Death, Black Marketeering,
>non-free markets (in any real sense) and anti-entrepeneurialism, while
>at the same time sending our dollars abroad to buy the drugs we preach
>must be stamped out.  It is sickening to me that we have done this,
>helped bring Caponeism for example to Columbia and Baja California,
>and I can only console myself that it is not the only thing the U.S.
>has done, that my country has some good that it has done and tried to
>do, and that while the Drug War is one of the great-untalked-abouts
>and great-injustices, it is not the sole defining characteristic of my
>country.  At least, that is my opinion.  I am in a bit of a hurry
>today and hope that I am not putting things overly strongly.

I agree, many agree - it would be very difficult to put it too strongly.

>The prevention of production and trade of Hemp is only perhaps the
>most obviously stupid thing here, because even if one things that
>"bad" drugs should be made illegal, the benefits of Hemp are so
>obvious, and the fact that it generally is not the same strain (I
>guess is more or less the right way to put it) as the plant which is
>grown for its narcotic effect, that there's sort of this dichotomy
>where everyone sort of agrees that even if we keep the drug war in
>place, the war on Hemp is in the eyes of some, less justifiable.

They're two different things, you can't get off on industrial hemp. 
Not that I've tried, but that seems to be clearcut - it has no drug 
properties.

>I've heard it said that part of what makes U.S. paper currency unique
>is that hemp is used in the paper, but I'm not sure if this is true.
>Maybe the whole matter, the whole giant friggin hypocrisy of it all,
>makes me so upset that I decided to focus on less upsetting things
>like the needless throwing away of American Economy and Policy
>Independence to those who have zero interest in a sustainable future
>for any decent values, economies, societies, or whatever, particular
>to those whose focus is to prevent progress in energy technologies.

I can understand that. All those people in jail for no good reason, 
being brutalized and criminalized, it's outrageous. It's also 
completely out of step - the other industrialized countries are 
moving in exactly the opposite direction. The industrial hemp 
prohibition is also out of step, and will see the US being left 
behind. Insane, really.

DrugReporter
News from the front lines of the drug war.
http://alternet.org/issues/index.html?IssueAreaID=17

For the past 15 years, lawmakers have pursued tough-on-drugs policies 
in an effort to create a "drug free America," plowing billions of 
dollars into prosecuting and imprisoning drug offenders. Is it 
working?

Not according to many drug policy observers of each political stripe. 
Indeed, some claim the war on drugs has been a complete -- and 
extremely costly -- failure. They are part of a growing movement for 
reform that believes drug use can never be eradicated and advocates 
reducing the harm associated with abusing drugs rather than 
imprisoning the people who use them.

Meanwhile, even after voters in a dozen states have cast their 
ballots in favor of reform, the steady accumulation of intrusive, 
drug-related legislation at the local and federal levels is having a 
chilling effect on our civil rights. The arm of the 

Re: [biofuel] Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and "The Fuel of the Future"

[murdoch]

Ad hoc comment:

One of the issues that tugs at me when I have seen recent "debate" (or
quasi-science or shouting) over whether some of the biofuels are
"sustainable" is that the fuel itself, if it is a relatively simple
standardizeable not-horrifically-toxic chemical, is a somewhat
*separate issue* from how it is derived.

So, a debate over the sustainability of ethyl alcohol as a "fuel of
the future", whether it took place in the 30s or today, should include
the concept that while it may well be presently sourced from much
agriculture or semi-agriculture, I'd think we could somehow
*manufacture* such a fuel, going forward, by new innovative methods as
well.  What is to prevent us, with all the scientists we have sitting
around, from taking some solar-derived electricity and trying to make
such relatively simple chemical compounds as ethyl alcohol from widely
available chemicals such as water and CO2 and O2 and what-have-you.

MM

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RE: [biofuel] Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition

[Keith Addison]

>Hemp is the term used for the male and marijuana is the
>term used to describe the female cannabis plant. There are
>many subspecies but, all females are psychoactive and all
>males are not.
>
>Did you know that hemp was directly responsible for the
>Roman Empire's success in conquering the world. Armor,
>clothing, shoes, tack for horses, cooking oil, etc. were
>all made from hemp.
>
>kris

I don't think this is right Kris. First, male plants are 
psychoactive, if less so. Second, industrial hemp is a different 
variety with very low THC content.

"Although often confused with marijuana, hemp is a distinct variety 
within the species: over the years, plant breeders have cultivated 
hemp varieties with increased stem fibre content and very low levels 
of delta 9-tetrahydro-cannabinol (THC), the psychoactive ingredient 
of its controversial cousin."
http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/science/story/0,3605,488409,00.html
Guardian Unlimited | The Guardian |
Hemp hits its stride

"Considerable variation exists within hemp germplasm for levels of 
the psychoactive drug THC (De Meijer et al., 1992a). Although fiber 
hemp varieties generally contain much less THC than drug-types of 
Cannabis, a number of fiber hemp varieties have been developed that 
contain very low levels (less than 0.3%) of THC. Plants with less 
than 0.3% THC have been accepted by the EC as having no psychoactive 
properties, and approved varieties may be grown under the EC subsidy 
program. A list of low-THC varieties approved for use in the EC are 
included in the Organization for Economic Co-operation and 
Development (OECD) list of cultivars (Anon., 1996). A new French 
cultivar has recently been developed which reportedly contains no THC 
(De Meijer, 1995)."
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/EdMat/SB681/whole2.html
Feasibility of Industrial Hemp Production in the United States 
Pacific Northwest

For comparison, cannabis from Thailand has a THC content of 14%. Some 
of the drug strains developed in Holland have twice that. Less than 
0.3% just won't work.

They're all called "hemp", Cannabis sativa (a lot of quite different 
plants are also called hemp). Marijuana is the Mexican name, which 
few people in America knew at the time of Prohibition. The name 
marijuana was used in all the scare stories. "Very few people 
realized that marijuana and hemp came from the same plant species; 
thus, virtually nobody knew that Marijuana Prohibition would destroy 
the hemp industry."

Anyway campaigning in the US for industrial hemp legalization is not 
the same as campaigning for "marijuana" legalization and against the 
drug laws, separate issues, though they're not always kept separate, 
even by the campaigners.

Best

Keith


>--- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The hemp plant has no psychoactive properties.
> > Cultivating hemp can
> > help replenish spent soil. Hemp can grow almost anywhere,
> > and
> > requires far less pesticides than many other cash crops,
> > such as
> > cotton. Hemp can be used for fuel, fiber, food, medicine,
> > and
> > industry. Hemp seed is highly nutritious. Hemp fiber is
> > durable and
> > strong. Extractums made from hemp were a valued medicine
> > for
> > thousands of years, but prohibition in the 1930s ended
> > all of that.
> > Why was this valuable renewable resource prohibited?
> > Evidence
> > suggests a special-interest group that included the
> > DuPont
> > petrochemical company, Secretary of the Treasury Andrew
> > Mellon
> > (Dupont's major financial backer), and the newspaper man
> > William
> > Randolph Hearst mounted a yellow journalism campaign
> > against hemp.
> > Hearst deliberately confused psychoactive marijuana with
> > industrial
> > hemp, one of humankind's oldest and most useful
> > resources. DuPont and
> > Hearst were heavily invested in timber and petroleum
> > resources, and
> > saw hemp as a threat to their empires. Petroleum
> > companies also knew
> > that petroleum emits noxious, toxic byproducts when
> > incompletely
> > burned, as in an auto engine. In 1937 DuPont, Mellen and
> > Hearst were
> > able to push a "marijuana" prohibition bill through
> > Congress in less
> > than three months, which destroyed the domestic hemp
> > industry.
> >
> >  From : Hemp Powered Car Tours US, Canada
> > http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/2000/12/hemp/


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Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel

[David Teal]

Lots of interesting chemistry coming out of this thread, but I do wonder
whether the answer might not be in the physics rather than the chemistry of
the process.  Possibly the glycerol has not fully settled when the upper
layers of ester are syphoned off.  Then, when the lower level is exposed to
cold air, the entrained glyc. solidifies into the reported skin.  Why not
try a longer (or warmer, with better insulation) settling period before
racking off?

David T.


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[biofuel] kologisch ohne kosteuer

[greg]

something of interest

 http://www.rerorust.de/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[biofuel] Stop the War!

[Harmon Seaver]

http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org



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Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting

[Keith Addison]

Why not just use fuel line heaters, and tank heaters if necessary?

(By the way, there's a lot of dross in this thread - the original 
message on diesel fuel isn't relevant to cold weather starting, it 
should have been snipped, there were four sets of footers at the 
bottom, should also have been snipped - 112 lines of excess baggage x 
1150 users = 128,800 wasted lines. Have a care! - Thanks. )

Keith


>Were do you live?  It used to be in Land Crusiers ( in Canada ) had duel
>heavy duty batteries for starting.
>
>Here in Colorado Springs, my father was told by his mechanic to add a little
>gasoline to the tank before pumping the diesel. I think that it about 1 or 2
>qts of gasoline to a tank of diesel to thin it out a fraction. He used this
>method for 3-5 years before his VW was totaled.
>
>I have heard of a method, that uses touline, to make biodiesel easier to
>start in winter, but it is only something I have heard, and not yet used my
>self ( I don't own a diesel yet ). This or the gasoline method might work
>for SVO or WVO as well, I don't know.
>
>Greg H.
>
>Greg H.
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Michael Henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 08:49
>Subject: [biofuel] cold weather starting
>
>
> > I've actually just bought my first diesel car, and this is one of my
> > main concerns (as I said, I don't really know anything!) - If I go
> > skiing and can't plug my car in, for the day or sometimes even for a few
> > days, do you have tips on starting it when I want to get home? Is this
> > something I need to worry about? Sounds like you have lots of
> > experience, and I really don't know what to expect going into my first
> > winter with a diesel. When I get that far, I'm also planning to mix
> > biodiesel with petro diesel to reduce cold weather starting problems. Is
> > that a good solution?
> >
> > While it may not be a real problem at all, It may be a percieved problem
> > with diesel - for people like me who don't know much about it but what
> > they've heard. The effect can be the same.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Hakan Falk wrote:
> >
> > >I had diesel cars the last 26 years as private vehicle, both in Sweden
>and
> > >after I moved to middle and southern Europe. In Sweden it was often minus
> > >25 Celsius in the winter and minus 15 Celsius in Central Europe. The only
> > >time I had serious problem was one time when I was skiing in Sweden and
>it
> > >was minus 40 Celsius for a couple of days. Had to heat it up and then put
> > >20% Kerosene in the tank. Could not ski anyway, since the risk for bad
> > >frostbites was too big.
> > >
> > >Hakan
> > >
> > >PS. during the same period I had gasoline company cars.
> > >
> > >
> > >At 10:34 AM 12/10/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> > >
> > >>I don't really know what I'm talking about, but from a Canadian
> > >>perspective I think diesel is widely considered a "dirty" fuel (and it
> > >>sounds like the truth of this is what you're researching), but also it's
> > >>hard to start when it's minus 20 degrees, which is a real, if
> > >>surmountable, problem in this climate   - this second point would also
> > >>apply to some areas in the US.
> > >>
> > >>Mike


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Re: [biofuel] WARNING! - enemy action by Yahoo

[Bryan Fullerton]

I doubt that is necessary unless you are without virus Protection. Like I
tell my users, in this day an age there is not much chance you will keep
from getting a virus on your computer without virus protection. The only way
to significantly decrease your chances of getting a virus without using
virus protection, are to disable nearly all of your computers capabilities,
i.e. Windows(LOL), never install any thirdparty programs, never download
anything off the internet, and make sure that all supposed text files from
message groups really are text files, never download any attachements, dont
be part of any network. etc..  As you can see it is much simpler to use
Nortons Antivirus or something similar that scans your email coming in and
going out. Keep it updated... Nortons and probably most of the others by now
will update themselves every wednesday over the internet thus keeping
themselves updated.


Bryan Fullerton
White Knight Gifts
www.youcandobusiness.com





- Original Message -
From: "Doug Foskey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 4:34 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] WARNING! - enemy action by Yahoo


> Too much info
>
> If you wish to stop disseminating virii, accept only text to the list, (ie
> make all turn off HTML & no attachments) To my knowledge there can't be a
> virus hidden in plain text. Any HTML posts just get rejected...
> (This only really affects AOL users, they apparently can't turn off HTML,
but
> other lists I am on just get the uploads via hotmail (ie the user sets up
a
> hotmail acct), so no probs.
> regards Doug
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>




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[biofuel] Diesel madness and steam slander

[Marc de Piolenc]

"Diesel originally thought that the diesel engine, (readily adaptable 
in size and utilizing locally available fuels) would enable 
independent craftsmen and artisans to endure the powered competition 
of large industries that then virtually monopolized the predominant 
power source-the oversized, expensive, fuel-wasting steam engine."

Whoa! In the first place, the Age of Steam was an era of decentralized
power production, with hundreds of manufacturers serving thousands of
small users. How many diesel producers are there in the world today?
Pick up a technical journal from the Teens or Twenties of the 20th
century and look at the ads.

Of course most of those steam plants were inefficient - they were small,
with low-pressure boilers and none of the expensive auxiliary equipment
that only a large scale plant could afford. That was one great benefit
of Diesel's invention - the ability to combine small size with
(relatively) high thermal efficiency.

I might note, however, that if small steam plants had continued to
evolve they would have got a whole lot better. Just the simple
transition from natural circulation boilers with drums to monotube or
Lamont boilers would have allowed an easy increase in pressures from
about 100 to about 1200 psi, which would have made a huge difference in
economy. And those plants could have burned anything small enough to fit
into the firebox! Such plants, incidentally, are built today by a small
coterie of amateur designer/builders, and work quite nicely with a much
wider fuel tolerance than any diesel will ever have.

"Diesel spent two more years at improvements and on 
the last day of 1896 demonstrated another model with the spectacular, 
if theoretical, mechanical efficiency of 75.6 percent, in contrast to 
the then-prevailing efficiency of the steam engine of 10 percent or 
less."

You're comparing apples to oranges - the MECHANICAL efficiency of
Diesel's engine (which is a measure of how free the engine is of
MECHANICAL losses due to friction and lost work) vs. the net THERMAL
efficiency of the worst of the low-pressure steam plants (which takes
ALL losses into account). No diesel has ever achieved more than about
40% brake net THERMAL efficiency - the usual figure is low thirties.
Better than low pressure steam, certainly, but not to the extent that
your rather confusing and deceptive comparison would suggest. And the
gap between diesels and a modern steam plant - even a small one - would
be a good deal lower.

Marc de Piolenc
Iligan City, Philippines



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RE: [biofuel] Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition

[Ben Power]

Also... Napoleon's invasion of Russa was an attempt to cut off America's 
hemp supply, thus crippling its' navy.


At 11:20 AM 12/11/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Hemp is the term used for the male and marijuana is the
>term used to describe the female cannabis plant. There are
>many subspecies but, all females are psychoactive and all
>males are not.
>
>Did you know that hemp was directly responsible for the
>Roman Empire's success in conquering the world. Armor,
>clothing, shoes, tack for horses, cooking oil, etc. were
>all made from hemp.
>
>kris
>--- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The hemp plant has no psychoactive properties.
> > Cultivating hemp can
> > help replenish spent soil. Hemp can grow almost anywhere,
> > and
> > requires far less pesticides than many other cash crops,
> > such as
> > cotton. Hemp can be used for fuel, fiber, food, medicine,
> > and
> > industry. Hemp seed is highly nutritious. Hemp fiber is
> > durable and
> > strong. Extractums made from hemp were a valued medicine
> > for
> > thousands of years, but prohibition in the 1930s ended
> > all of that.
> > Why was this valuable renewable resource prohibited?
> > Evidence
> > suggests a special-interest group that included the
> > DuPont
> > petrochemical company, Secretary of the Treasury Andrew
> > Mellon
> > (Dupont's major financial backer), and the newspaper man
> > William
> > Randolph Hearst mounted a yellow journalism campaign
> > against hemp.
> > Hearst deliberately confused psychoactive marijuana with
> > industrial
> > hemp, one of humankind's oldest and most useful
> > resources. DuPont and
> > Hearst were heavily invested in timber and petroleum
> > resources, and
> > saw hemp as a threat to their empires. Petroleum
> > companies also knew
> > that petroleum emits noxious, toxic byproducts when
> > incompletely
> > burned, as in an auto engine. In 1937 DuPont, Mellen and
> > Hearst were
> > able to push a "marijuana" prohibition bill through
> > Congress in less
> > than three months, which destroyed the domestic hemp
> > industry.
> >
> >  From : Hemp Powered Car Tours US, Canada
> > http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/2000/12/hemp/
> >
> >
>
>
>__
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>
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>
>
>
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Is My Medicine Legal Yet? http://florida.usmjparty.com  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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