[talk-ph] zero dark thirty using osm for pakistan map
Did any of you watched the movie zero dark thirty? A friend said it used OSM for a map of Pakistan. Maning Sambale (mobile) ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] zero dark thirty using osm for pakistan map
Really? I saw the movie and my comment then was: The CIA uses Google Maps? On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:45 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Did any of you watched the movie zero dark thirty? A friend said it used OSM for a map of Pakistan. Maning Sambale (mobile) ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[OSM-talk-be] Tag for 'mutualiteiten' ?
Hi, Anyone have an idea how to tag 'mutualiteiten' like CM, Union or other kind office's like that ? Best I could find is amenity=social_centre , with a whopping 505 ( http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=amenityvalue=social_centre ) over the whole world. Iemand een idee hoe je best mutualiteiten tagt zoals CM kantoren of vakbond e.a. ? Bedankt, Glenn ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tag for 'mutualiteiten' ?
Denk dat het deze wordt, dit lijkt me prima match. Te vinden in deze v2.0 Healthcare proposal : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Healthcare_2.0 health_facility:type=office Glenn ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
Hi all, I'm submitting here a question about the legality of keeping French long hiking routes called GR or GRP or PR in OSM. All these routes are very well known, have sign posts and references on the ground, e.g. the GR20 in Corsica (but many are still missing or very incomplete in OSM). See these examples in [1a] and [1b]. These routes have been created by the national hiking sport federation (FFRP, Fédération Française de Randonnée Pédestre). You can see them on the ground by the trail marks visible at regular intervals but also on most of the commercial maps in France. But we are facing two legal issues in France. The problems are not new but become more critical in my opinion (see below). First issue : it is the hiking route names themselves. For all of them created by the FFRP, the names are registered trademarks and cannot be used without permission (see question below). Second issue : the routes themselves are copyrighted. The list of trademarks is listed in the legal page of the FFRP web site([2]) : - (some are just used in books or commercial maps but) - GR® - GR Pays® - PR® - ... à pied - les environs de ... à pied - Sentiers des patrimoines are very common (especially the first 3 : GR, GR Pays (or GRP) and PR followed by a reference number. Question : the FFRP itself is an editor of hiking bookguides or has contracts with the IGN (the French state establishment for geographical information) for publishing commercial hiking maps, giving them royalties in return (an important income for the federation). So the FFRP is always actively contacting or bringing actions (sue) against private competitors or simple websites using their trademarks and routes on maps or book editors not paying any fees (see e.g. [3]). But some web sites seem to use them without fee ([4]). It seems that the FFRP is tolerating non-commercial use. Since 2009, 2 or 3 OSM contributors (including myself) tried to contact the FFRP to get the permission they request to use their copyrighted route names into OSM, wihout any reply until now. Earlier last year (Feb 2012), two members of the French local chapter met them physically and presented OSM. They showed some interest but repeated again and clearly that using the GR, PR, etc trademarks is not allowed without permission, a permission they didn't provide during that meeting (minutes available here [7]). They also didn't say anything about the future. it seems finally that they are looking for a replacement of their current map data provider (IGN) but they want to preserve their current commercial model. Note that the sign-posts (trail marks) are also protected (like a logo). After that meeting, we are several people thinking that we have the remove all references of the trademarks of the FFRP into OSM db, usually tagged in name or ref, either on ways or route relations or both. What's your opinion ? Second issue : it is maybe a more specific French issue here because the routes themselves can be copyrighted when they are considered as original work. A famous case confirmed this with the IGN (publishing the FFRP maps) sueing a guidebook editor [5] and confirmed by the highest court in France (1ere chambre de la cour de cassation de Paris, decision of 30 june 1998 [8]. I don't know if this is the same in other countries but a significant part of the OSM community in France would consider deleting the FFRP hiking routes completely (and not only the trademarks mentionned in Q1). Personnaly, I think that a route is not considered as an original work (or not enough original) in many jurisdictions. But still, keeping them in OSM is raising a legal insecurity in all DB extracts stored or distributed on French servers or applications. For these reasons, all FFRP hiking routes (represented in OSM by relations of type route, route=hiking) in France should be completely removed from the OSM database. What do you think ? Pieren [1a] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1107414 [1b] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2650826 [2] http://www.ffrandonnee.fr/_67/mentions-legales.aspx (in French) [3] http://www.balades-pyrenees.com/numero_55.htm (in French) [4] http://www.gr-infos.com/ [5] http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichJuriJudi.do?oldAction=rechJuriJudiidTexte=JURITEXT06938477fastReqId=330410198fastPos=9 (in French) [6] http://hiking.lonvia.de/fr/?zoom=13lat=42.95532lon=-0.61968 [7] http://listes.openstreetmap.fr/wws/arc/ca/2012-02/msg0.html (in French, require ML registration first) [8] http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichJuriJudi.do?oldAction=rechJuriJudiidTexte=JURITEXT07041272fastReqId=109256579fastPos=1 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
IANAL but just a thought... is it legal anyway to copyright route references? That is what the GRs appear to me to be to my eyes. Can the Department of Transport copyright the reference M25 in the uk and prohibit its use in all other publications? Nick -Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: - To: legal-talk@openstreetmap.org From: Pieren pier...@gmail.com Date: 21/02/2013 12:24PM Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France Hi all, I'm submitting here a question about the legality of keeping French long hiking routes called GR or GRP or PR in OSM. All these routes are very well known, have sign posts and references on the ground, e.g. the GR20 in Corsica (but many are still missing or very incomplete in OSM). See these examples in [1a] and [1b]. These routes have been created by the national hiking sport federation (FFRP, Fédération Française de Randonnée Pédestre). You can see them on the ground by the trail marks visible at regular intervals but also on most of the commercial maps in France. But we are facing two legal issues in France. The problems are not new but become more critical in my opinion (see below). First issue : it is the hiking route names themselves. For all of them created by the FFRP, the names are registered trademarks and cannot be used without permission (see question below). Second issue : the routes themselves are copyrighted. The list of trademarks is listed in the legal page of the FFRP web site([2]) : - (some are just used in books or commercial maps but) - GR® - GR Pays® - PR® - ... à pied - les environs de ... à pied - Sentiers des patrimoines are very common (especially the first 3 : GR, GR Pays (or GRP) and PR followed by a reference number. Question : the FFRP itself is an editor of hiking bookguides or has contracts with the IGN (the French state establishment for geographical information) for publishing commercial hiking maps, giving them royalties in return (an important income for the federation). So the FFRP is always actively contacting or bringing actions (sue) against private competitors or simple websites using their trademarks and routes on maps or book editors not paying any fees (see e.g. [3]). But some web sites seem to use them without fee ([4]). It seems that the FFRP is tolerating non-commercial use. Since 2009, 2 or 3 OSM contributors (including myself) tried to contact the FFRP to get the permission they request to use their copyrighted route names into OSM, wihout any reply until now. Earlier last year (Feb 2012), two members of the French local chapter met them physically and presented OSM. They showed some interest but repeated again and clearly that using the GR, PR, etc trademarks is not allowed without permission, a permission they didn't provide during that meeting (minutes available here [7]). They also didn't say anything about the future. it seems finally that they are looking for a replacement of their current map data provider (IGN) but they want to preserve their current commercial model. Note that the sign-posts (trail marks) are also protected (like a logo). After that meeting, we are several people thinking that we have the remove all references of the trademarks of the FFRP into OSM db, usually tagged in name or ref, either on ways or route relations or both. What's your opinion ? Second issue : it is maybe a more specific French issue here because the routes themselves can be copyrighted when they are considered as original work. A famous case confirmed this with the IGN (publishing the FFRP maps) sueing a guidebook editor [5] and confirmed by the highest court in France (1ere chambre de la cour de cassation de Paris, decision of 30 june 1998 [8]. I don't know if this is the same in other countries but a significant part of the OSM community in France would consider deleting the FFRP hiking routes completely (and not only the trademarks mentionned in Q1). Personnaly, I think that a route is not considered as an original work (or not enough original) in many jurisdictions. But still, keeping them in OSM is raising a legal insecurity in all DB extracts stored or distributed on French servers or applications. For these reasons, all FFRP hiking routes (represented in OSM by relations of type route, route=hiking) in France should be completely removed from the OSM database. What do you think ? Pieren [1a] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1107414 [1b] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2650826 [2] http://www.ffrandonnee.fr/_67/mentions-legales.aspx (in French) [3] http://www.balades-pyrenees.com/numero_55.htm (in French) [4] http://www.gr-infos.com/ [5] http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichJuriJudi.do?oldAction=rechJuriJudiidTexte=JURITEXT06938477fastReqId=330410198fastPos=9 (in French) [6] http://hiking.lonvia.de/fr/?zoom=13lat=42.95532lon=-0.61968 [7] http://listes.openstreetmap.fr/wws/arc/ca/2012-02/msg0.html (in French, require ML registration first) [8]
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
From: Pieren [mailto:pier...@gmail.com] Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France Hi all, I'm submitting here a question about the legality of keeping French long hiking routes called GR or GRP or PR in OSM. All these routes are very well known, have sign posts and references on the ground, e.g. the GR20 in Corsica (but many are still missing or very incomplete in OSM). See these examples in [1a] and [1b]. These routes have been created by the national hiking sport federation (FFRP, Fédération Française de Randonnée Pédestre). You can see them on the ground by the trail marks visible at regular intervals but also on most of the commercial maps in France. But we are facing two legal issues in France. The problems are not new but become more critical in my opinion (see below). First issue : it is the hiking route names themselves. For all of them created by the FFRP, the names are registered trademarks and cannot be used without permission (see question below). I cannot see that indicating that there are signs with a particular text on the ground is infringing their trademark. I'd expect most name=* values on POIs in OSM to be a trademark (although not necessarily registered). I've tagged Coca-Cola bottling centers, Starbucks, McDonalds and many more objects with trademarked names. If the mapping is accurate then the trademarked name is being used accurately and there's no issue. If I started tagging every coffee shop as a Starbucks regardless of ownership then I'd be diluting their trademark and it'd be an issue. Similarly, their trademark would stop someone from creating another hiking route with the same name, but would not stop someone from saying that they were heading to hike the GR20 if that's in fact what they were planning to do. Second issue : it is maybe a more specific French issue here because the routes themselves can be copyrighted when they are considered as original work. A famous case confirmed this with the IGN (publishing the FFRP maps) sueing a guidebook editor [5] and confirmed by the highest court in France (1ere chambre de la cour de cassation de Paris, decision of 30 june 1998 [8]. I don't know if this is the same in other countries but a significant part of the OSM community in France would consider deleting the FFRP hiking routes completely (and not only the trademarks mentionned in Q1). If the facts on the ground are covered by copyright I cannot see how a hiking network is different than a road network or a cycle network. Accepting this would require removing all roads in new suburbs and developments because they were copyrighted, not just these hiking routes. I also wonder if the guidebook copied FFRP maps or sent people out with GPSes. Another subtle point is we don't map what FFRP says is the route, we map what is marked on the ground. Personnaly, I think that a route is not considered as an original work (or not enough original) in many jurisdictions. But still, keeping them in OSM is raising a legal insecurity in all DB extracts stored or distributed on French servers or applications. For these reasons, all FFRP hiking routes (represented in OSM by relations of type route, route=hiking) in France should be completely removed from the OSM database. What do you think ? In some countries publishing maps requires a permit, but if someone deleted all the data in those countries I'm sure we'd regard it as vandalism. Other countries (e.g. China) forbid maps contrary to official ones, but when people start edit wars over disputed areas claimed by those countries what is regarded as important is the ground truth, not what the laws of that country allow to be published. I don't see that a French court's judgment should determine what goes in OSM, any more than a Chinese court. Even if the French court believes they have jurisdiction, they'd have to get any judgment domesticated by a British court. To accept the French judgment would gut OSM because it would apply to every hiking or road network in France, or for that matter, outside of France. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: I cannot see that indicating that there are signs with a particular text on the ground is infringing their trademark. I'd expect most name=* values on POIs in OSM to be a trademark (although not necessarily registered). I've tagged Coca-Cola bottling centers, Starbucks, McDonalds and many more objects with trademarked names. If the mapping is accurate then the trademarked name is being used accurately and there's no issue. If I started tagging every coffee shop as a Starbucks regardless of ownership then I'd be diluting their trademark and it'd be an issue. Similarly, their trademark would stop someone from creating another hiking route with the same name, but would not stop someone from saying that they were heading to hike the GR20 if that's in fact what they were planning to do. Again, you have to understand that this sport organization (FFRP) is publishing hiking bookguides and maps of their routes. It is their main income (plus some subsidies from the state). The FFRP made this trademark and copyright to protect them against commercial competitors on their market : their hiking routes. If the facts on the ground are covered by copyright I cannot see how a hiking network is different than a road network or a cycle network. Perhaps because a road network is in the public domaine. Here we speak about a copyrighted route. we map what is marked on the ground. This point has been long discussed on our local list. What you see on the ground is the trail markers. One problem is that the markers are also copyrighted (the colours and shapes) like a logo. Of course, if you put the McDonalds logo on OSM maps, McDo will be happy for the free ads and maps are not their business. But it might be different if you put an OS or USGS logo on your OSM maps. Second problem is that the trail markers are present along the route at short intervals. Even if we map only the marks, it will be easy to rebuild the whole route by extrapolation. I don't see that a French court's judgment should determine what goes in OSM, any more than a Chinese court. Even if the French court believes they have jurisdiction, they'd have to get any judgment domesticated by a British court. To accept the French judgment would gut OSM because it would apply to every hiking or road network in France, or for that matter, outside of France. Would you say the same if the court is in US or Canada ? Of course, we can build our mirror of the planet dump files and filter the compromised data. But is is the policy of OSM to ignore copyrights infringements outside UK ? Pieren ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
[reordered to place copyright matters together] From: Pieren [mailto:pier...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:26 AM To: Licensing and other legal discussions. Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France Again, you have to understand that this sport organization (FFRP) is publishing hiking bookguides and maps of their routes. It is their main income (plus some subsidies from the state). The FFRP made this trademark and copyright to protect them against commercial competitors on their market : their hiking routes. Oh, I understand why they don't want competition. I'm sure any map publisher would be happy with less competition. we map what is marked on the ground. This point has been long discussed on our local list. What you see on the ground is the trail markers. One problem is that the markers are also copyrighted (the colours and shapes) like a logo. Of course, if you put the McDonalds logo on OSM maps, McDo will be happy for the free ads and maps are not their business. But it might be different if you put an OS or USGS logo on your OSM maps. Second problem is that the trail markers are present along the route at short intervals. Even if we map only the marks, it will be easy to rebuild the whole route by extrapolation. The copyright of the markers isn't really relevant, we're discussing text like GR20 which would not be protected by copyright anywhere that I'm aware of. Trademark yes, but not copyright. The problem with any trademark arguments is if we're accurate, we're describing If the facts on the ground are covered by copyright I cannot see how a hiking network is different than a road network or a cycle network. Perhaps because a road network is in the public domaine. Here we speak about a copyrighted route. What makes it in the public domain as opposed to this route? Both networks were designed. I don't see that a French court's judgment should determine what goes in OSM, any more than a Chinese court. Even if the French court believes they have jurisdiction, they'd have to get any judgment domesticated by a British court. To accept the French judgment would gut OSM because it would apply to every hiking or road network in France, or for that matter, outside of France. Would you say the same if the court is in US or Canada ? Of course, we can build our mirror of the planet dump files and filter the compromised data. *Any* court judgment would need to be domesticated to be able to be enforced against the OSMF. We're talking about a case where if it were the same facts elsewhere it would be legal. Should the OSMF remove all landuse=military from Russia because mapping military facilities may not be legal there? If it were a local case that impacted me, I'd have to consider what I map and what I distribute in light of the case, but that's about all I can say about a vague hypothetical case. But is is the policy of OSM to ignore copyrights infringements outside UK ? My points were not about copyright infringements outside the UK. I was talking about data that would not infringe copyright under UK law. The Wikimedia Foundation uses US law for determining fair use and out of copyright status and hosts content where it would be infringing copyright under foreign law. Also, I think you mean the OSMF, not OSM, as it's the OSMF that would receive any takedown notices or lawsuits. If these did need to be removed as copyright violations, they would need to be redacted and I imagine the legals question would end up at the LWG, either directly or via the DWG. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
This point has been long discussed on our local list. What you see on the ground is the trail markers. One problem is that the markers are also copyrighted (the colours and shapes) like a logo. Of course, if you put the McDonalds logo on OSM maps, McDo will be happy for the free ads and maps are not their business. MacDo may not be happy because you put on the same map all fast-food networks. Or because on your smart-phone app Find your MacDo, you allowed user to share (bad) comments. Using brand/logo is alway legally dangerous. If we consider that everything that the use may be dangerous should be removed from OSM, then all brands everywhere in the world must be removed. Indeed, I consider that this the way we are using it that is dangerous i.e. this is the responsibility of the guy doing the extract from OSM and organizing the data that is involved. But it might be different if you put an OS or USGS logo on your OSM maps. I don't see any problem if you put USGS logo on USGS offices/shops. Of course, you will get in trouble if you put a big USGS logo on the cover of your map. Again, this is the way you are using it that is critical. Éric ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
Hello all! I have a few usecases for OSM where I do not know if I can use it or not. I work for a library where we are building a new version of an application to handle all sort of collections, for example books, letters, images, music sheets, etc. The application will store metadata and digitalized versions of the works. To know where an item was created, a letter sent from / to, etc we need to store places and information about them. The information we normally store about a place is name, alternative names, names translated to different languages, etc. A place might be a historic one that no longer exists. In the current system, metadata about a place is constructed by giving it a name, known variations of the name, which country it is in (problematic as it might change over the time) and translation of the name. As an OSM user and contributor my first reaction was, we can make the places more precise and avoid the changing countries problem by using coordinates for places, and also present them in a better way. As the applications data should be readable for a long time (forever), will we be storing all metadata together with the digitalized objects. We will over the lifetime of the application construct several thousand places. We will not be able to share the complete db under the ODbL as the works have all kinds of licenses that are incompatible with the ODbL. The resulting system will be accessible for anyone from the Internet, subsections might have restricted access. 1. If we present an OSM map to the user let them click on the map and use the coordinates they clicked on as part of the metadata for a place in our application, will the resulting database be considered a derived database? To clarify, we would not extract any information from the map, beside the coordinates that the user clicked on, they would by themselves navigate the map to for example London and then click somewhere in London. 2. If we use the overpass API to find possible matches for a placename entered by a user, present the possible matches with markers on a map and let the user click on the map and use the coordinates the user clicks on, will the resulting database be considered a derived database? Again, we would not extract any information from the map, beside the coordinates that the user clicked on. Presenting the markers would of course help the user find a place, such as London. 3. If we use the overpass API to find possible matches for a placename entered by a user, present the possible matches with markers on a map and if we have more then one result ask the user to fill in more details about the place such as, country, region, close to major city, local name, etc until overpass only returns on result, would the user entered data be considered a derived database? To clarify, in this case would we not extract the coordinates or any other data from the map. 4. If we present several places (all data about the place including coordinates originates from other sources than OSM) on an OSM map to help find duplicates, and then lets the user click on two places marked on the map, to merge them into one, would the resulting database be considered a derived database? I would love for us to use OSM in our application, but I have been unable to find out if we can use it for the four usecases presented above. with hope of a speedy answer /Olov ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
I think all of these use cases should be ok and we should adjust the community guide lines to clarify that ODbL's share alike clause shouldn't kick in here. On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Olov McKie o...@mckie.se wrote: Hello all! I have a few usecases for OSM where I do not know if I can use it or not. I work for a library where we are building a new version of an application to handle all sort of collections, for example books, letters, images, music sheets, etc. The application will store metadata and digitalized versions of the works. To know where an item was created, a letter sent from / to, etc we need to store places and information about them. The information we normally store about a place is name, alternative names, names translated to different languages, etc. A place might be a historic one that no longer exists. In the current system, metadata about a place is constructed by giving it a name, known variations of the name, which country it is in (problematic as it might change over the time) and translation of the name. As an OSM user and contributor my first reaction was, we can make the places more precise and avoid the changing countries problem by using coordinates for places, and also present them in a better way. As the applications data should be readable for a long time (forever), will we be storing all metadata together with the digitalized objects. We will over the lifetime of the application construct several thousand places. We will not be able to share the complete db under the ODbL as the works have all kinds of licenses that are incompatible with the ODbL. The resulting system will be accessible for anyone from the Internet, subsections might have restricted access. 1. If we present an OSM map to the user let them click on the map and use the coordinates they clicked on as part of the metadata for a place in our application, will the resulting database be considered a derived database? To clarify, we would not extract any information from the map, beside the coordinates that the user clicked on, they would by themselves navigate the map to for example London and then click somewhere in London. 2. If we use the overpass API to find possible matches for a placename entered by a user, present the possible matches with markers on a map and let the user click on the map and use the coordinates the user clicks on, will the resulting database be considered a derived database? Again, we would not extract any information from the map, beside the coordinates that the user clicked on. Presenting the markers would of course help the user find a place, such as London. 3. If we use the overpass API to find possible matches for a placename entered by a user, present the possible matches with markers on a map and if we have more then one result ask the user to fill in more details about the place such as, country, region, close to major city, local name, etc until overpass only returns on result, would the user entered data be considered a derived database? To clarify, in this case would we not extract the coordinates or any other data from the map. 4. If we present several places (all data about the place including coordinates originates from other sources than OSM) on an OSM map to help find duplicates, and then lets the user click on two places marked on the map, to merge them into one, would the resulting database be considered a derived database? I would love for us to use OSM in our application, but I have been unable to find out if we can use it for the four usecases presented above. with hope of a speedy answer /Olov ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: First issue : it is the hiking route names themselves. For all of them created by the FFRP, the names are registered trademarks and cannot be used without permission (see question below). Second issue : the routes themselves are copyrighted. Hi Pieren, I am also not a lawyer, but here's my two cents. First, it would be really said if we lost the GR routes. I recently hiked about half of the GR20, using the OSM route of course. So I don't think we should give up easily - they're so valuable. On the trademark front, it should be easy to establish if they have a genuine complaint. If they do, I think we can change the names without losing too much - even if had to call them French hiking route 20 or something. Second issue : it is maybe a more specific French issue here because the routes themselves can be copyrighted when they are considered as original work. A famous case confirmed this with the IGN (publishing the FFRP maps) sueing a guidebook editor [5] and confirmed by the highest court in France (1ere chambre de la cour de cassation de Paris, decision of 30 june 1998 [8]. I don't know if this is the same in other countries but a significant part of the OSM community in France would consider deleting the FFRP hiking routes completely (and not only the trademarks mentionned in Q1). On what basis do they claim ownership of the routes, exactly? As I understand it, many of these routes link up lots of little trails that had been around for decades. How did copyright get transferred from the people who created the trails to the FFRP? Or do they claim ownership only over new sections? Or only over a particular representation? Are they aware that all the data has been created independently, by surveying the trail - not by actually copying their data? I wonder where the exact line would be drawn - what if we didn't have routes, but just the trails marked. But then, how would you label such a trail - often they have no other name other than the GR number, plus the name of the next landmark. Presumably someone has sought French legal advice? What was it? Steve ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
Hi I revived the Multilingual Country-List tool. Now with Overpass-API as source, it's a useful tool again. If you find the time, head over to http://toolserver.org/~mazder/multilingual-country-list/ and look for your favorite language. Nice :) I just wanted to point out a paragraph on the tool which IMHO is bad advice : Sometimes the name of a country in the selected language (the value of the name:xx-Tag) is identical to the name of this country in the native language of this country (which is stored in the name-Tag). Because the content of the name-Tag is the natural fallback for a missing name:xx-Tag, in such a case there should be no name:xx-Tag for this language. But if there's one anyway, this duplicate tag is highlighted in orange. You may delete those name:xx-Tags without changing anything in the effective Name. The recent multilingual map has demonstrated that it is actually *not* ok to leave out the name:xx tag if it is identical to the name tag. Consider this usecase : * I prefer to read French but can also read English, so I set may language priority to name:fr - name:en - name. * I now take a look at a country like Central African Republic whose local name is a French one. * If the name:fr tag is present I get to see the French name. * If the name:fr is removed, I get to see the English name, which is acceptable but suboptimal. So instead of saying that one may delete the name:xx tag if it is identical to the name tag (to reduce bloat, presumably), the multilingual-country-list should encourage to add the name:xx tag in all cases. -- Vincent de Phily PS: newly registered to mailing-list, sorry if threading is messed-up. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
2013/2/21 moltonel 3x Combo molto...@gmail.com: Nice :) I just wanted to point out a paragraph on the tool which IMHO is bad advice : Sometimes the name of a country in the selected language (the value of the name:xx-Tag) is identical to the name of this country in the native language of this country You may delete those name:xx-Tags without changing anything in the effective Name. The recent multilingual map has demonstrated that it is actually *not* ok to leave out the name:xx tag if it is identical to the name tag. +1, at least as long as we don't store the default/official language(s) for a feature, the name:xx tag should not be removed, even if it is a duplicate of the name tag. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
Am 21.02.2013 11:43, schrieb moltonel 3x Combo: So instead of saying that one may delete the name:xx tag if it is identical to the name tag (to reduce bloat, presumably), the multilingual-country-list should encourage to add the name:xx tag in all cases. I would rather vote for a solution which compares the name tag according to region. So, for Central African Republic the default language is set to french, meaning that name is automatically also becoming name:fr. Of course, you have some problems with multilingual countries, but most of them have one strongly dominant language (China, USA), or the languages are divided by region (Belgium, Switzerland). If there are some few leftovers which do pose problem (where there is no clearly defined language – e.g. Brussels), one can look for individual solutions for them. If you recommend to add a redundant name:xx tag, most people will not follow that advice. You would have to do that for every single road, every single shop, every single bus stop. This is not practical. It is much more practical to do it in the renderer. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
Am 21.02.2013 12:20, schrieb Hans Schmidt: Am 21.02.2013 11:43, schrieb moltonel 3x Combo: So instead of saying that one may delete the name:xx tag if it is identical to the name tag (to reduce bloat, presumably), the multilingual-country-list should encourage to add the name:xx tag in all cases. I would rather vote for a solution which compares the name tag according to region. So, for Central African Republic the default language is set to french, meaning that name is automatically also becoming name:fr. Of course, you have some problems with multilingual countries, but most of them have one strongly dominant language (China, USA), or the languages are divided by region (Belgium, Switzerland). If there are some few leftovers which do pose problem (where there is no clearly defined language – e.g. Brussels), one can look for individual solutions for them. If you recommend to add a redundant name:xx tag, most people will not follow that advice. You would have to do that for every single road, every single shop, every single bus stop. This is not practical. It is much more practical to do it in the renderer. Well... if there's no localized name tag, then you may omit the name:xx tag for that language, as there's no alternative. On the other hand name:de might be useful even then, as it's possible to translate programmatically if the software knows about the language. The German suffixes -straße, -weg, -platz could be automatically transcoded to street, way and square, the afaik swedish -gatan is street again, väg is way and so on. But if you try to translate something to another language this way where you don't know the source language, it's much more difficult. So a recommendation might be to - always tag name - if you translate name into different languages, always add name:originalLanguageCode with the same content - if you want, add that even if you don't translate it to different languages. Yes, that's redundant - but it's easy to cut out for software (cut out every language attribute that equals the plain name), if wanted; and it's less error prone than a tag like language=de or like the lists of default language areas you propose above. Sure: These list are helpful for all cases where only name is given, and that's a necessity for great software dealing with that, but that's the way defaults in OSM work: there should be a few defaults for mappers, where they should decide to not add a tag, but more defaults for data consumers, who could/should be able to have a best guess where data is missing. regards Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
Am 21.02.2013 12:36, schrieb Peter Wendorff: Well... if there's no localized name tag, then you may omit the name:xx tag for that language, as there's no alternative. On the other hand name:de might be useful even then, as it's possible to translate programmatically if the software knows about the language. The German suffixes -straße, -weg, -platz could be automatically transcoded to street, way and square, the afaik swedish -gatan is street again, väg is way and so on. But if you try to translate something to another language this way where you don't know the source language, it's much more difficult. Why would you want to translate the street names? Do you want to translate Paris' “Avenue des Champs-Élysées” to “Allee der Champs-Élysées”? Nobody would know what it is anymore. Also, nobody wants to translate a “Lindenallee” in some minor german town to “Linden avenue”. Also, automatic translation would be error prone. So a recommendation might be to - always tag name - if you translate name into different languages, always add name:originalLanguageCode with the same content - if you want, add that even if you don't translate it to different languages. Yes, that's redundant - but it's easy to cut out for software (cut out every language attribute that equals the plain name), if wanted; and it's less error prone than a tag like language=de or like the lists of default language areas you propose above. Sure: These list are helpful for all cases where only name is given, and that's a necessity for great software dealing with that, but that's the way defaults in OSM work: there should be a few defaults for mappers, where they should decide to not add a tag, but more defaults for data consumers, who could/should be able to have a best guess where data is missing. You say that there should be few defaults for mappers. But what you propose is exactly the opposite: You'd have a default, meaning that you would need to create a name:originallanguage even if there is a name present. I would bet that nobody does this. And if you don’t do it like that, chaos will occur if you decide to display the name. In contrast, if you do it based on region, it would simplify things much more: 1. You take the nodes/relation for Canada, add language=en. 2. You take the nodes/relation for Québec: language=fr Then everybody would just continue using name=British Columbia and name=Montréal, and no problem. The multilingual renderer would then show, in case the user wants to see French names, name=Montréal and name:fr=Colombie-Britannique. If the user is English, he would show name:en=Montreal and name:British Columbia. Tell me where this is not easier than adding a redundant name:en or name:fr for every town, bus stop and street in Canada. You would only have to change the multilangual renderer so that it would display it like that. This is no problem because I guess it is still in development – It could be done relatively easy (from a non-developer standpoint speaking). Plus, most of todays nodes only have a name=... tag, not a name:xyz=... one. You would not need to change anything. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
2013/2/21 Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de: Well... if there's no localized name tag, then you may omit the name:xx tag for that language, as there's no alternative. as you point out yourself, then you won't know in which language this name is. We should tag something like lang=xx to set the default language (also lang=xx;yy;zz for multiple default/official languages). Actually what could be omitted then is the name-tag, but not the name:xx-tag. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
Am 21.02.2013 13:07, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: Where do you set this *1 and with which tag? Currently it doesn't look as if for your example any default language is set: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/192790 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/432424956 but it looks as if there are 2 official languages, so putting the default to french looks like a potential offense to me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central%20African%20Republic?uselang=en Official languages: French Sango yes, I know that especially for African countries, this could get messy. There are many other examples where this would clearly give benefits, though. For problematic cases one could develop something special. Btw, for multilanguage stuff, I'd want a JOSM plugin somehow in this form: http://www.abload.de/img/josm92o58.jpg First, in JOSM you could select based with the Overpass API what you want to download: All nodes for Japanese prefectures (in my example), all cities in Germany etc. Then, JOSM would display these things in a tabular form, where it would first analyse which name:xy tags are present, and then display them like that. This would give the following advantages: 1. You could easily see where there are missing items 2. If there are two similar name tags (in my case, ja_kana and ja_hira), they could be merged. 3. The input is _much_ faster than opening every node on the map, adding a new name:xy tag etc, pressing ok, selecting the next one etc. 4. If you want to add a new translation, just add a new column. In my opinion, without some tabular based approach, the multilingual project cannot be successful, because the input is _way_ to cumbersome. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
Hello Everybody, We apparently have a lots extra bandwidth and disk space on our US OSM servers. Requests have gone out asking for ideas. We are also starting the google summer of code project suggestions. I wanted to confirm the major reason we only have 4 layers on osm.org, is a resourcing issue, rather than a political issue. Basically, we do not have enough disk, cpu, bandwidth, and people to host them in the UK. So assuming: we can host them on the US OSM servers, the servers can handle it, and the map quality is good, etc, etc. Would there be any problem adding the following map layers to osm.org? - an overhead image layer + mapnik style. We could reproduce the work that MapBox did collecting existing images. - a hiking map, like cycle map, show information posts and route relations on paths, trails, etc. - a public transportation map Perhaps digging deeper, - Equestrian layer - Boating/Water recreation layer - Hunting layer - ATV layer - a freshness map, anything older than a year is very dim/missing. - address map, areas without addresses are marked in ugly bright purple. - etc I am sure we could think of many others. Bottom line, If we build this kind of stuff on the US OSM servers, are we going to be allowed into osm.org layer menu or not? Thanks Jason. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
On 21/02/13 15:05, Jason Remillard wrote: I wanted to confirm the major reason we only have 4 layers on osm.org, is a resourcing issue, rather than a political issue. It's a nobody has proposed a layer that meets the criteria laid out in the policy issue. This is (astonishingly) one area where we do actually have a well defined written policy: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Strategic_working_group/New_Tile_Layer_Guidelines Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
There are two separate issues here. - the use of a trademark to refer to the routes in question - copyright of the route itself (in the sense that the sequence of way segments is considered a creative work, or potentially protected as a database) Both claims cannot simply be dismissed IMHO, the former however is not really a big concern. In the worst case we could give the routes descriptive names and leave it at that. The later could have substantially more impact. French courts have, as courts around the world, have found that they have jurisdiction in cases where content has been distributed in their country via the Internet regardless of where the servers are located. This clearly could rise to a level of having an impact on the OSMF and the central infrastructure. IANAL Simon Am 21.02.2013 13:59, schrieb Nick Whitelegg: IANAL but just a thought... is it legal anyway to copyright route references? That is what the GRs appear to me to be to my eyes. Can the Department of Transport copyright the reference M25 in the uk and prohibit its use in all other publications? Nick -Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: - To: legal-t...@openstreetmap.org From: Pieren pier...@gmail.com Date: 21/02/2013 12:24PM Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France Hi all, I'm submitting here a question about the legality of keeping French long hiking routes called GR or GRP or PR in OSM. All these routes are very well known, have sign posts and references on the ground, e.g. the GR20 in Corsica (but many are still missing or very incomplete in OSM). See these examples in [1a] and [1b]. These routes have been created by the national hiking sport federation (FFRP, Fédération Française de Randonnée Pédestre). You can see them on the ground by the trail marks visible at regular intervals but also on most of the commercial maps in France. But we are facing two legal issues in France. The problems are not new but become more critical in my opinion (see below). First issue : it is the hiking route names themselves. For all of them created by the FFRP, the names are registered trademarks and cannot be used without permission (see question below). Second issue : the routes themselves are copyrighted. The list of trademarks is listed in the legal page of the FFRP web site([2]) : - (some are just used in books or commercial maps but) - GR® - GR Pays® - PR® - ... à pied - les environs de ... à pied - Sentiers des patrimoines are very common (especially the first 3 : GR, GR Pays (or GRP) and PR followed by a reference number. Question : the FFRP itself is an editor of hiking bookguides or has contracts with the IGN (the French state establishment for geographical information) for publishing commercial hiking maps, giving them royalties in return (an important income for the federation). So the FFRP is always actively contacting or bringing actions (sue) against private competitors or simple websites using their trademarks and routes on maps or book editors not paying any fees (see e.g. [3]). But some web sites seem to use them without fee ([4]). It seems that the FFRP is tolerating non-commercial use. Since 2009, 2 or 3 OSM contributors (including myself) tried to contact the FFRP to get the permission they request to use their copyrighted route names into OSM, wihout any reply until now. Earlier last year (Feb 2012), two members of the French local chapter met them physically and presented OSM. They showed some interest but repeated again and clearly that using the GR, PR, etc trademarks is not allowed without permission, a permission they didn't provide during that meeting (minutes available here [7]). They also didn't say anything about the future. it seems finally that they are looking for a replacement of their current map data provider (IGN) but they want to preserve their current commercial model. Note that the sign-posts (trail marks) are also protected (like a logo). After that meeting, we are several people thinking that we have the remove all references of the trademarks of the FFRP into OSM db, usually tagged in name or ref, either on ways or route relations or both. What's your opinion ? Second issue : it is maybe a more specific French issue here because the routes themselves can be copyrighted when they are considered as original work. A famous case confirmed this with the IGN (publishing the FFRP maps) sueing a guidebook editor [5] and confirmed by the highest court in France (1ere chambre de la cour de cassation de Paris, decision of 30 june 1998 [8]. I don't know if this is the same in other countries but a significant part of the OSM community in France would consider deleting the FFRP hiking routes completely (and not only the trademarks mentionned in Q1). Personnaly, I think that a route is not considered as an original work (or not enough original) in many jurisdictions. But still, keeping
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
Am 21.02.2013 16:08 schrieb Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com: - an overhead image layer + mapnik style. We could reproduce the work that MapBox did collecting existing images. - a hiking map, like cycle map, show information posts and route relations on paths, trails, etc. - a public transportation map The hikebikemap for hiking/biking/terrain and öpnvkarte for public transport would be great! :) -Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
Hi Tom, Yes, I know about the process. It is good that it is setup :-) It seems like the technical aspects are addressed by hosting them on the us OSM servers. The soft / arbitrary criteria are judgment questions about where the OSM community is at. However, what I was really asking was given the context I described combined with the process as currently defined, would any of these layers have a chance of getting approved? Thanks Jason On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 21/02/13 15:05, Jason Remillard wrote: I wanted to confirm the major reason we only have 4 layers on osm.org, is a resourcing issue, rather than a political issue. It's a nobody has proposed a layer that meets the criteria laid out in the policy issue. This is (astonishingly) one area where we do actually have a well defined written policy: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Strategic_working_group/New_Tile_Layer_Guidelines Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
On 21/02/13 15:57, Jason Remillard wrote: It seems like the technical aspects are addressed by hosting them on the us OSM servers. The soft / arbitrary criteria are judgment questions about where the OSM community is at. However, what I was really asking was given the context I described combined with the process as currently defined, would any of these layers have a chance of getting approved? Well that's more or less impossible to say in advance... I didn't read the list in detail but I didn't notice anything which sounded like it would automatically fail to meet the criteria. Some of the criteria - like whether it's so garish it makes our eyes bleed when we look at it - are of course impossible to evaluate without a concrete implementation. There is of course the question of exactly how much choice we want to offer - there is some sort of limit on how many options you can show to a user without being completely overwhelming. So layers with a larger target audience would obviously better than those which looked like they would have a very niche audience. It's also worth bearing in mind the general mantra that the site is not intended as an end user destination - so this should be about show casing what can be done with OSM data rather than providing a service to a people engaged in a particular sport or whatever. Much of this is of course just my own thoughts, and at the end of the day it would be up to the whole of the operations group to decide. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
On 21/02/13 15:56, Martin Simon wrote: The hikebikemap for hiking/biking/terrain and öpnvkarte for public transport would be great! :) Well öpnvkarte was considered along with the current transport layer and the decision was that having two transport layers would be silly and that we preferred the one that we are currently offering. Nobody has ever asked OWG to consider hikebikemap. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
On Thursday 21 February 2013, Jason Remillard wrote: - an overhead image layer + mapnik style. We could reproduce the work that MapBox did collecting existing images. I don't think you will have much success with the licensing here. Aerial imagery rights go for muchos $$$. I think you're forgetting we don't have things like bing imagery. We are granted the right to use it for a very specific (rather obscure in commercial terms) purpose. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
MapBox? http://mapbox.com/blog/open-aerial/ On 21 February 2013 16:36, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: On Thursday 21 February 2013, Jason Remillard wrote: - an overhead image layer + mapnik style. We could reproduce the work that MapBox did collecting existing images. I don't think you will have much success with the licensing here. Aerial imagery rights go for muchos $$$. I think you're forgetting we don't have things like bing imagery. We are granted the right to use it for a very specific (rather obscure in commercial terms) purpose. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
On 21 February 2013 13:29, Hans Schmidt z0idb...@gmx.de wrote: yes, I know that especially for African countries, this could get messy. There are many other examples where this would clearly give benefits, though. For problematic cases one could develop something special. It gets messy in a lot of places in the world. To pick just one example that I know well : Ireland has both English and Irish names everywhere, but which one goes into the name tag can be very tricky to figure out. There are a few areas of Ireland where the Irish name is the dominant one, but the boundaries are fuzzy and osm doesn't have a relation for them. Some places use an Irish name in an English-dominated area, and vice-versa. There's even a town that uses English for its name, but Irish for the name of its train station. It's just too messy, I do not see how defining a default language for a region could deal with such cases. Remember that which language is selected for the name tag is sometimes very contentious, and that it gets sorted by the local mappers rather than by the sysadmin of some mapnik server. Besides, I actually think that adding the redundant name:XX tag is actually simpler than modifying the code of many renderers to take something completely new into account. On the other hand, it should be very easy to check that if a place has at least one name:xx tag, it should also have one that matches the name tag either inside the editor or via a bot. -- Vincent de Phily ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
From: Jason Remillard [mailto:remillard.ja...@gmail.com] Subject: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org Hello Everybody, I wanted to confirm the major reason we only have 4 layers on osm.org, is a resourcing issue, rather than a political issue. Basically, we do not have enough disk, cpu, bandwidth, and people to host them in the UK. The only layer which uses OSMF resources is the layer labeled Standard, also known as osm.org mapnik. Given that others[1] are successfully providing a wide variety of layers, it doesn't seem like devoting OSMF resources to another worldwide non-debug layer is necessary. So assuming: we can host them on the US OSM servers, the servers can handle it, and the map quality is good, etc, etc. Would there be any problem adding the following map layers to osm.org? I don't think these concerns should impact if it goes on osm.org, but a world-wide tile layer can take substantial resources, and is this what local chapter wants to be doing? [1] e.g. http://mapstyle.petschge.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
On Thursday 21 February 2013, Joseph Reeves wrote: MapBox? http://mapbox.com/blog/open-aerial/ If you look at the phases table at the bottom of http://mapbox.com/blog/mapbox-satellite/ From what I can tell, only Phase 1 is going to be open. So I don't know if that will be good enough for most people (outside the US). robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
Somewhat off topic, but there is http://www.opengeoserver.at/ which is financed at least partly by wikimedia and I expect that they would gladly include further open imagery sources. Simon Am 21.02.2013 18:11, schrieb Robert Scott: On Thursday 21 February 2013, Joseph Reeves wrote: MapBox? http://mapbox.com/blog/open-aerial/ If you look at the phases table at the bottom of http://mapbox.com/blog/mapbox-satellite/ From what I can tell, only Phase 1 is going to be open. So I don't know if that will be good enough for most people (outside the US). robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 12:29 PM, Hans Schmidt z0idb...@gmx.de wrote: Btw, for multilanguage stuff, I'd want a JOSM plugin somehow in this form: http://www.abload.de/img/josm92o58.jpg First, in JOSM you could select based with the Overpass API what you want to download: All nodes for Japanese prefectures (in my example), all cities in Germany etc. Then, JOSM would display these things in a tabular form, where it would first analyse which name:xy tags are present, and then display them like that. This would give the following advantages: 1. You could easily see where there are missing items 2. If there are two similar name tags (in my case, ja_kana and ja_hira), they could be merged. 3. The input is _much_ faster than opening every node on the map, adding a new name:xy tag etc, pressing ok, selecting the next one etc. 4. If you want to add a new translation, just add a new column. In my opinion, without some tabular based approach, the multilingual project cannot be successful, because the input is _way_ to cumbersome. +1 This is why we (well, all credit goes to user mpele) started with our own transliteration plugin (Serbian Cyrillic - Serbian Latin) [1], based on the tag editor plugin: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/TagEditor It could be a nice idea to extend this to a more general purpose multilingual editor, with e.g. copy source lang to dest lang option, more transliteration filters, etc. M [1] http://svn.mpele.iz.rs/SerbianTransliterator/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
I have been working on an indoor editor for OSM. Using a new indoor-specific editor or not, it is easy to add indoor map data to OSM. But doing this places a lot of data in the database that appears very ugly and very difficult to work with for a person not well versed in indoor maps in osm. Basically it looks like garbage. Indoor map data is a good candidate to use for an additional Layer in OSM. And by layer here I don't mean a tile layer on the OSM slippy map, as was used in this thread, or data tagged with the layer property tag. I mean a separate database layer. There has been talk about layers a number of times. I looked up one of the most recent discussions and pulled out this link from Jochen Topf discussing the idea. http://blog.jochentopf.com/2012-09-23-multiple-layers-for-osm.html Jochen's proposal is to implement Layers of the data by just using a different instance of the database. The same idea was suggested to me by John Novak, of using a new instance of the database to host indoor map data. And he specifically suggested petitioning to use the US servers to host this database. If nothing else, the separate database could be used as a staging area to test the idea of indoor map data and allow it to get some support in other editing tools before introducing the data into the regular database. Or maybe it would just stay as a separate layer. So if there are resources available I'd propose using them to create a copy of the database and the associated infrastructure to serve as a Indoor Map database. And I am sure there are other layers that would also be useful. Dave On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: From: Jason Remillard [mailto:remillard.ja...@gmail.com] Subject: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org Hello Everybody, I wanted to confirm the major reason we only have 4 layers on osm.org, is a resourcing issue, rather than a political issue. Basically, we do not have enough disk, cpu, bandwidth, and people to host them in the UK. The only layer which uses OSMF resources is the layer labeled Standard, also known as osm.org mapnik. Given that others[1] are successfully providing a wide variety of layers, it doesn't seem like devoting OSMF resources to another worldwide non-debug layer is necessary. So assuming: we can host them on the US OSM servers, the servers can handle it, and the map quality is good, etc, etc. Would there be any problem adding the following map layers to osm.org? I don't think these concerns should impact if it goes on osm.org, but a world-wide tile layer can take substantial resources, and is this what local chapter wants to be doing? [1] e.g. http://mapstyle.petschge.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
On 21/02/2013 15:05, Jason Remillard wrote: - Boating/Water recreation layer The water sports layer that is currently in OpenSeaMap could use a wider audience. This covers all sport=... features that are in-water as well as the whitewater features. The current location is somewhat obscure and inclusion as a layer in the OpenStreetMap main map would be a much better place for it. To view it, go to http://map.openseamap.org/map/ and from the View drop-down de-select everything except Sport. Then browse to an area where mapped water sports are known to exist. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
PS: See http://map.openseamap.org/map/?zoom=14lat=54.42942lon=10.2249layers=BFFTFFF0FF ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] uMap Project 0.2.0
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Yohan Boniface yohanbonif...@free.frwrote: Hi open mappers, A quick email to notify that I've frozen a 0.2.0 version of uMap. Demo still at http://umap.fluv.io. This is looking great, and will be very useful. Thank you! -Josh ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
Resources invested in hosting various useful tile layers and tools would only help in getting more people to switch to openstreetmaps and support the project. Why can't we have a larger donation drive and support such services which are central to the project and helps its growth? -- Arun Ganesh (planemad) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Planemad http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] ÖPNV-Relationen
Hi! Habe nun etwas herum probiert und muss feststellen, dass der Fehler wo anders liegt. Was habe ich gemacht: * Diesen Weg am nordwestlichen Ende kurz vor der Kreuzung gesplittet: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/32231837 . Zwei zusätzliche Tags drauf und hochgeladen. * JOSM musste 63 Elemente hochladen - dies dauerte eine mittlere Ewigkeit dafür und endete mit einem Konflikt. * Konflikt: Hochladen fehlgeschlagen, da der Server eine neuere Version von einem Ihrer Punkte, Linien oder Relationen hat. Der Konflikt wird durch ein Objekt vom Typ Relation mit ID 2.513.035 ausgelöst. Der Server hat Version 2, Ihre Version ist 1. Ein Blick in der Relationschronik zeigt, dass Version 2 gerade eben von mir selbst erzeugt wurde: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2513035/history Hier liegt das grundlegende Problem: das ist ein Konflikt mit mir selbst, den es so nicht geben darf. Nun wählte ich Ganzen Datensatz synchronisieren. Es wurden 48 Konflikte entdeckt, alle ausschließlich in Relationen, darunter auch eine Abbiegebeschränkung mit drei Members. Im Konfliktlösungsdialog wird ein Member auf beiden Seiten (Meine Version/Deren Version) rot markiert, die Liste ist aber soweit ich das beurteilen kann identisch. Alle 48 Konflikte wurden gelöst in dem ich immer Deren Version verwendete. Ein weiterer Hochladeversuch war dann erfolgreich, allerdings sind die Daten nun korrupt: dieser Weg ist doppelt http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/206492740 und http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/206490629 und die Relationen sind gleichmäßig über beide Wege verteilt. Ich werde versuche diese Stelle wieder zu bereinigen und dann ein Ticket bei JOSM aufmachen. vg, Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] ÖPNV-Relationen
Hi! Habe nun etwas herum probiert und muss feststellen, dass der Fehler wo anders liegt. Was habe ich gemacht: [...] Hier liegt das grundlegende Problem: das ist ein Konflikt mit mir selbst, den es so nicht geben darf. Danke für das detaillierte Recherchieren. Die gedoppelte Relation ist allerdings in der Tat ein JOSM-Bug. Vielleicht sollte man eine Operation Wege teilen auf der Main API implementieren. Das würde nebenbei auch die Qualität der Daten-Historie verbessern. Viele Grüße, Roland ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] ÖPNV-Relationen
Am 20. Februar 2013 21:27 schrieb Stefan Tiran stefan.ti...@student.tugraz.at: Für mich als Öffi-Benutzer ist es schon sehr interessant zu wissen, ob ein Bus die Autobahn verwendet oder nicht, da sich das deutlich auf die Reisegeschwindigkeit auswirkt. Leider ist es so, dass im ländlichen Raum fast jeder Kurs einer Linie einen abweichenden Verlauf hat. Das ist aber für mich nur viel mehr noch ein Grund dafür, warum es wichtig ist, dass diese Daten in freier Form verfügbar sind. Ich kann das immer noch nicht so ganz verstehen: Woher kommen denn eigentlich die Infos, wo der Bus lang faehrt? Die Fahrplane die ich so kenne geben nur Haltestellen an, der Weg dazwischen wird nur schematisch dargestellt. Klar kann ich den Weg mappen, den der Bus HEUTE genommen hat. Das wird sicher auch sehr oft zutreffen. Aber darauf verlassen kann ich mich doch sowieso nicht. Der Weg kann sich sowohl kurzfristig aendern (Stau, Baustelle, persoenliche Vorliebe des Fahrers), als auch ohne Ankuendigung langfristig (Routenanederung, Neukalkulation wg. Spritpreisen etc.), da ja in den Plaenen der Weg eben NICHT angegeben wird. Genauso widersinnig ist es aber im entgegengesetzten Fall: Strassenbahnen koenen zwischen zwei Haltestellen selten mehr als einen Weg waehlen. trozdem sind die Schienen in der Routenrelation erfasst. Wozu? Gruss, Chaos ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] ÖPNV-Relationen
Am 21. Februar 2013 11:31 schrieb Ronnie Soak chaoschaos0...@googlemail.com: Ich kann das immer noch nicht so ganz verstehen: Woher kommen denn eigentlich die Infos, wo der Bus lang faehrt? von Leuten, die den Bus kennen, bzw. schon benutzt haben und wissen, welchen Weg er nimmt. Die Fahrplane die ich so kenne geben nur Haltestellen an, der Weg dazwischen wird nur schematisch dargestellt. ist aber in der Regel festgelegt, das entscheidet soweit ich weiss nicht der Busfahrer, wie er genau zur Haltestelle kommt. Klar kann ich den Weg mappen, den der Bus HEUTE genommen hat. Das wird sicher auch sehr oft zutreffen. Aber darauf verlassen kann ich mich doch sowieso nicht. Der Weg kann sich sowohl kurzfristig aendern (Stau, Baustelle, persoenliche Vorliebe des Fahrers), m.E. kommt nur Baustelle in Betracht, der Fahrer darf AFAIK normalerweise die Route nicht ändern, und auch ein spontaner Stau wird normalerweise nciht zu einer Routenänderung führen. als auch ohne Ankuendigung langfristig (Routenanederung, Neukalkulation wg. Spritpreisen etc.), da ja in den Plaenen der Weg eben NICHT angegeben wird. das wiederum kann man mit Ortskenntnis lösen (indem man bemerkt, dass der Bus jetzt anders fährt, ggf. auch den Busfahrer fragen, ob das dauerhaft ist). Genauso widersinnig ist es aber im entgegengesetzten Fall: Strassenbahnen koenen zwischen zwei Haltestellen selten mehr als einen Weg waehlen. trozdem sind die Schienen in der Routenrelation erfasst. Wozu? Vereinfachung für Auswerter der Daten, ggf. auch Redundanz zur Sicherung der Datenstabilität (zumindest irgendwas bleibt noch in der db und hilft beim Rekonstruieren falls mal durch Vandalismus oder Anfänger ein paar Haltestellen gelöscht werden oder so). [Immer ausser] selten ist ausserdem nicht ausreichend sicher m.E. um sich darauf zu verlassen ;-) Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] ÖPNV-Relationen
Am 21. Februar 2013 09:25 schrieb Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: Habe nun etwas herum probiert und muss feststellen, dass der Fehler wo anders liegt. Was habe ich gemacht: * Diesen Weg am nordwestlichen Ende kurz vor der Kreuzung gesplittet: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/32231837 . Zwei zusätzliche Tags drauf und hochgeladen. * JOSM musste 63 Elemente hochladen - dies dauerte eine mittlere Ewigkeit dafür und endete mit einem Konflikt. ist ggf. die Internetverbindung in der Zwischenzeit getrennt worden? Das vermute ich z.T. als Ursache für Konflikte, die ich gelegentlich mit mir selbst hatte. Wenn diese komischen Nachrichten kommen (alles oder nur den problematischen Teil synchronisieren?) habe ich bisher noch keine zufrieden stellende Lösung gefunden, beides sorgt endlos für Kettenkonflikte. Hier gibt es z.B. ein Ticket dazu (vielleicht nicht ganz derselbe Fall?): https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/7416 Hier liegt das grundlegende Problem: das ist ein Konflikt mit mir selbst, den es so nicht geben darf. +1 (dürfte) Alle 48 Konflikte wurden gelöst in dem ich immer Deren Version verwendete. Ein weiterer Hochladeversuch war dann erfolgreich, allerdings sind die Daten nun korrupt: dieser Weg ist doppelt +1, auch schon so beobachtet, nehme normalerweise auch immer deren Version in der Hoffnung, dadurch nichts von anderen zu zerstören. _Ein_ Weg doppelt ist noch harmlos ;-) Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] OSM-Daten wieder zusammenführen
Hallo, für ein Projekt haben wir einen Ausschnitt von OSM-Daten (Quadrat) lokal (mit JOSM, als .osm-File) bearbeitet. Nun stehen wir vor dem Problem, dass wir den Datenausschnitt vergrößern wollen. Ist es möglich die neuen Bereiche herunterzuladen und dann irgendwie unsere mit den neuen Daten von OSM zusammenzuführen? Oder müssen wir den gesamten Randbereich dann manuell wieder verknüpfen? Danke für Ideen und Tipps. Tom ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] ÖPNV-Relationen
Hi. Ich sehe mehrere Gründe, warum man die Wege/Straßen selbst sinnvollerweise mit in die ÖPNV-Relationen aufnehmen sollte. Ich gebe euch aber auch recht, dass das momentane Schema der Relationen und vor allem der riesenrelationen in bestimmten Fällen problematisch ist, dazu ganz unten mehr. Am 21.02.2013 11:31, schrieb Ronnie Soak: Am 20. Februar 2013 21:27 schrieb Stefan Tiran stefan.ti...@student.tugraz.at: Für mich als Öffi-Benutzer ist es schon sehr interessant zu wissen, ob ein Bus die Autobahn verwendet oder nicht, da sich das deutlich auf die Reisegeschwindigkeit auswirkt. Leider ist es so, dass im ländlichen Raum fast jeder Kurs einer Linie einen abweichenden Verlauf hat. Das ist aber für mich nur viel mehr noch ein Grund dafür, warum es wichtig ist, dass diese Daten in freier Form verfügbar sind. Ich kann das immer noch nicht so ganz verstehen: Woher kommen denn eigentlich die Infos, wo der Bus lang faehrt? Variante 1: Ich setze mich in den Bus und fahre mit, ggf mit laufendem GPS-Logger. Variante 2: Ich sehe die Busse von außen und kann damit einzelne Streckenabschnitte eindeutig zuordnen (wegen StVO bleibt oft nichts anderes übrig, zumindest in der Stadt) Variante 3: Der Nahverkehrsverband rückt die Daten in ausreichend freier Form raus. Die Fahrplane die ich so kenne geben nur Haltestellen an, der Weg dazwischen wird nur schematisch dargestellt. Klar kann ich den Weg mappen, den der Bus HEUTE genommen hat. Das wird sicher auch sehr oft zutreffen. Aber darauf verlassen kann ich mich doch sowieso nicht. Der Weg kann sich sowohl kurzfristig aendern (Stau, Baustelle, persoenliche Vorliebe des Fahrers), Innerstädtischer Busverkehr wird meines Wissens nicht wegen Staus umgeleitet normalerweise, zumal Bushaltestellen bei sinnvoller Einrichtung innerstädtisch so nah beieinanderliegen, dass die Stauumfahrung bei nennenswerten Staus auch nicht viel bringt. Bei Baustellen hast du vermutlich recht, aber da gilt, was fürs Routing in OSM auch gilt: Wenn die Baustelle sehr lange besteht, wird entsprechend angepasst, wenn sie kurzfristig ist, sind die Daten eben nicht aktuell und perfekt - das ist aber kein ÖPNV-Problem. Ob Fahrer tatsächlich die Freiheit haben, sich ihre Strecke auszusuchen, weiß ich nicht; da müsste man vermutlich mal Profis fragen. Hier (Kreise Paderborn und Höxter) hab ich das als sehr regelmäßiger Busfahrer aber noch nie erlebt, dass Busse unterschiedliche Strecken je nach Fahrer nehmen (okay, den einen Busfahrer ausgenommen, der gepennt hat und falsch abgebogen ist; der hat aber auch deutlich geflucht, als er auf der Landstraße wenden musste...). als auch ohne Ankuendigung langfristig (Routenanederung, Neukalkulation wg. Spritpreisen etc.), da ja in den Plaenen der Weg eben NICHT angegeben wird. Und die man dann eben genauso nachtragen muss wie man den ursprünglichen Streckenverlauf. Genauso widersinnig ist es aber im entgegengesetzten Fall: Strassenbahnen koenen zwischen zwei Haltestellen selten mehr als einen Weg waehlen. trozdem sind die Schienen in der Routenrelation erfasst. Wozu? Zunächst mal zu der Frage, wozu man die Strecke selbst über die Haltepunkte hinaus in die Routen mit aufnehmen sollte: i) Busse gerade im ländlichen Raum halten nicht an jeder Ecke. In manchen Fällen bieten die Verkehrsunternehmen als Service in den Abend- und Nachtstunden an, dass Busse auch zwischen Haltestellen auf Anfrage halten. Im Padersprinter in Paderborn halten Busse ab 20 Uhr maximal einmal zwischen zwei Haltestellen [1]. Dafür ist es aber notwendig zu wissen, welche Strecke der Bus nimmt. ii) Wie lange ein Bus fährt, lässt sich außerdem, solange keine Fahrpläne bekannt sind, grob anhand von Streckenlänge und -verlauf abschätzen. iii) Liniennetzpläne sind entweder schematisiert (dabei wären die Straßen unnötig) oder aber auf der echten Karte abgebildet, was nur mit den Wegen machbar ist. Die andere Frage ist die der technischen Umsetzung: Wir haben in OSM momentan nur atomar zu bearbeitende Objekttypen: Das gleichzeitige bearbeiten einer Relation ist dadurch unmöglich und führt technisch bedingt zu Konflikten, selbst wenn es sich um die A7 handelt und die beiden Bearbeiter in völlig unterschiedlichen Gegenden Kleinigkeiten korrigieren, ohne die Attribute anzutasten. Bisher wird das Problem oft mit den gruseligen Master-Relationen umgangen, so dass eine Relation eben nicht mehr die A7 enthält, sondern die A7 in Hessen, A7 in NRW und sowas. Ich könnte mir hier vorstellen, dass auf Dauer das Versionierungsschema angepasst werden könnte, indem man Bearbeitungen differenziert betrachtet: - Änderungen an Attributen sind immer eine volle neue Version des gesamten Objekts und führen mit allen anderen Änderungen des Objekts zu Konflikten. - Hinzufügungen/Löschungen von Elementen aus einer Relation bzw. Nodes aus einem Way beziehen sich jeweils nur auf einen Teilabschnitt des Objekts, also z.B. nur den Bereich zwischen bus_stop Bahnhof und
Re: [Talk-de] OSM-Daten wieder zusammenführen
Zitat Tom Müller: für ein Projekt haben wir einen Ausschnitt von OSM-Daten (Quadrat) lokal (mit JOSM, als .osm-File) bearbeitet. Nun stehen wir vor dem Problem, dass wir den Datenausschnitt vergrößern wollen. Ist es möglich die neuen Bereiche herunterzuladen und dann irgendwie unsere mit den neuen Daten von OSM zusammenzuführen? Oder müssen wir den gesamten Randbereich dann manuell wieder verknüpfen? Kommt drauf an... (tm) Variante 1: eure Daten hochladen und danach alles mit vergrößertem Bereich wieder runterladen. Wenn ihr nicht wollt, dass eure Daten in der Datenbank landen: Variante 2: eure osm-Datei in Josm laden, Daten-runterladen-Dialog öffnen und unten links den Haken bei als neue Ebene laden rausnehmen. Den gewünschten Bereich markieren und runterladen. Josm führt dann eure Daten und die Daten aus der Datenbank zusammen, ohne eure Daten zu verändern. Zur Sicherheit mal alles vorher ausprobieren und mit Kopien arbeiten. hth ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] ÖPNV-Relationen
Am 21. Februar 2013 12:21 schrieb Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de: i) Busse gerade im ländlichen Raum halten nicht an jeder Ecke. Das ist ortsspezifisch. Hier halten die Überland-Busse eigentlich schon an fast jeder Ecke, auch zwischen Ortschaften, alle paar hundert Meter bis alle paar km gibt es Bushaltestellen (meistens nur ein Schild, kein Häuschen, keine Bank, ...) als sog. Bedarfshaltestellen, d.h. wenn dort jemand steht und winkt oder aussteigen will hält der Bus, sonst nicht. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM-Daten wieder zusammenführen
Servus, zur Variante 2 möchte ich auf http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Legal_FAQ#3b._Wenn_ich_Daten_von_OSM-Daten_abgeleitet_habe.2C_muss_ich_sie_weiterverbreiten.3F hinweisen. (Nur dass es nicht zu bösen Überraschungen oder Konflikten kommt, wegen der Lizenz.) LG Jimmy Am 21.02.2013 12:42, schrieb Michael Buege: Zitat Tom Müller: für ein Projekt haben wir einen Ausschnitt von OSM-Daten (Quadrat) lokal (mit JOSM, als .osm-File) bearbeitet. Nun stehen wir vor dem Problem, dass wir den Datenausschnitt vergrößern wollen. Ist es möglich die neuen Bereiche herunterzuladen und dann irgendwie unsere mit den neuen Daten von OSM zusammenzuführen? Oder müssen wir den gesamten Randbereich dann manuell wieder verknüpfen? Kommt drauf an... (tm) Variante 1: eure Daten hochladen und danach alles mit vergrößertem Bereich wieder runterladen. Wenn ihr nicht wollt, dass eure Daten in der Datenbank landen: Variante 2: eure osm-Datei in Josm laden, Daten-runterladen-Dialog öffnen und unten links den Haken bei als neue Ebene laden rausnehmen. Den gewünschten Bereich markieren und runterladen. Josm führt dann eure Daten und die Daten aus der Datenbank zusammen, ohne eure Daten zu verändern. Zur Sicherheit mal alles vorher ausprobieren und mit Kopien arbeiten. hth ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] ÖPNV-Relationen
Ich kenne hier in Belgien 2 Linien (selbe Strecke) die frei wahlen dürfen wie die erste 20 Kilometer von Leuven nach Aarschot zu gehen (305 und 306). Wenn sie dabei Haltestellen vorbeifahren würden, werden sie nicht halten. Ich habe die in OSM eingetragen über die meist übliche Route (Autobahn). Das ist eher Ausnahme. Polyglot 2013/2/21 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com Am 21. Februar 2013 12:21 schrieb Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de: i) Busse gerade im ländlichen Raum halten nicht an jeder Ecke. Das ist ortsspezifisch. Hier halten die Überland-Busse eigentlich schon an fast jeder Ecke, auch zwischen Ortschaften, alle paar hundert Meter bis alle paar km gibt es Bushaltestellen (meistens nur ein Schild, kein Häuschen, keine Bank, ...) als sog. Bedarfshaltestellen, d.h. wenn dort jemand steht und winkt oder aussteigen will hält der Bus, sonst nicht. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-in] OSM Mumbai Workshop this FRIDAY 22 Feb
Will try and be there. Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel -Original Message- From: Shekhar Krishnan shek...@topomancy.com Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 23:41:16 To: talk-in@openstreetmap.org Reply-To: OpenStreetMap in India talk-in@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-in] OSM Mumbai Workshop this FRIDAY 22 Feb Dear All: With Mikel Maron and Arun Ganesh, we are organising an OSM Mumbai Mapping Workshop/Party this FRIDAY 22 FEBRUARY from 2-6pm in South Mumbai near VT/CST Station. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mumbai/StudioX The page above is still in the works, and suggestions and comments from existing OSMers in Mumbai are most welcome. Please RSVP soon as we can only host 20 (twenty) participants, to confirm see the page. Best, S.K. -- Shekhar Krishnan Topomancy LLC http://shekhar.cc http://topomancy.com ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
[Talk-it] mi ci date un'occhiata??[pla3]
qui http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.66898lon=12.64619zoom=15layers=M ho aggiunto la strada e le rotonde che vanno da via nettunense a via ardeatina, siccome e' la prima volta che lo faccio, qualcuno esperto puo' dirmi se va bene oppure se c'e' qualcosa che andrebbe fatto diversamente??? grazie :-) ciao :-) P ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] mi ci date un'occhiata??[pla3]
2013/2/21 yahoo-pier_andreit pier_andr...@yahoo.it qui http://www.openstreetmap.org/?**lat=41.66898lon=12.64619** zoom=15layers=Mhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.66898lon=12.64619zoom=15layers=M ho aggiunto la strada e le rotonde che vanno da via nettunense a via ardeatina, siccome e' la prima volta che lo faccio, qualcuno esperto puo' dirmi se va bene oppure se c'e' qualcosa che andrebbe fatto diversamente??? Questa rotonda non è tale, manca l'attributo junction=roundabout, gli attributi highway=tertiary_link e secondary_link sono errati. http://osm.org/go/xcW6pcmDD-- Anche alle altre rotonde manca junction=roundabout. Poi non sono rotonde (usare la funzione disponi i nodi in cerchio di JOSM). Qui c'è un segmento duplicato sovrapposto: http://osm.org/go/xcW6rGJaN-- I nomi si scrivono con l'iniziale maiuscola. Quindi Via Nettunese e non via nettunese. Qui mi sembra che manchi una strada di accesso alla rotonda (vedo solo quella in uscita): http://osm.org/go/xcW6q0qcf-- Inoltre, la strada unclassified parte dalla rotonda ma non è collegata a questa: http://osm.org/go/xcW6qySMo-- In generale le strade della zona non mi sembrano allineate alle Ortofoto. Qui mi sembra strano che ci sia un pezzo tertiary in mezzo a due tratti secondary: http://osm.org/go/xcW6sgJh Infine noto una Ex Ferrovia Albano Laz. - Nettuno (tra l'altro non si usano abbreviazioni). Però dalle ortofoto non vedo nessuna ferrovia abbandonata. Secondo me se è stata smantellata non deve essere mappata. Noi descriviamo la realtà, non la storia. Ciao, Andrea. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] mi ci date un'occhiata??[pla3]
Secondo il wiki è corretto usare railway=abandoned per vecchie ferrovie la cui infrastruttura è stata smantellata. Probabilmente sarebbe meglio farlo solo nei casi in cui lantico tracciato è comunque ancora in qualche modo riconoscibile, quindi in qualche modo ancora realtà e non solo storia. Non conosco la situazione della ferrovia in questione. Ciao, Alberto From: Andrea Musuruane [mailto:musur...@gmail.com] Sent: giovedì 21 febbraio 2013 09:45 To: openstreetmap list - italiano Subject: Re: [Talk-it] mi ci date un'occhiata??[pla3] Infine noto una Ex Ferrovia Albano Laz. - Nettuno (tra l'altro non si usano abbreviazioni). Però dalle ortofoto non vedo nessuna ferrovia abbandonata. Secondo me se è stata smantellata non deve essere mappata. Noi descriviamo la realtà, non la storia. Ciao, Andrea. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] mi ci date un'occhiata??[pla3]
2013/2/21 Alberto Nogaro bartosom...@yahoo.it Secondo il wiki è corretto usare railway=abandoned per vecchie ferrovie la cui infrastruttura è stata smantellata. Probabilmente sarebbe meglio farlo solo nei casi in cui l’antico tracciato è comunque ancora in qualche modo riconoscibile, quindi in qualche modo ancora realtà e non solo storia. Non conosco la situazione della ferrovia in questione. Alberto, per smantellata intendevo che non si vede neanche il tracciato originario dalle ortofoto, al suo posto ci sono case, e altro. Ciao, Andrea. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] quanto tempo ci mette di solito a registrare le variazioni?[pla2]
Il giorno 20 febbraio 2013 21:07, yahoo-pier_andreit pier_andr...@yahoo.itha scritto: un'altra cosa, come si fa a fare un piazzale largo dove si puo' anche parcheggiare?? Disegna la strada principale, quella di traffico, normalmente (dovrebbe avere il nome della piazza o del largo). Poi disegna una way chiusa che delimita l'area del parcheggio, e taggala amenity=parking. Puoi aggiungere parking:condition:area=free/disc/ticket/... (vedi qui [1] ), name=* (di solito si usa il nome della piazza, ma se c'è un nome specifico tipo Parking Cittadella o Parking Garibaldi usa quello). Puoi anche mettere parking=surface (oppure underground, o multi-storey, ma qui è un parcheggio normale di superficie). Se ci sono corsie nel parcheggio, taggale highway=service, service=parking_aisle. Personalmente preferisco aggiungere service=parking_aisle solo su quelle corsi che sono *veramente solo* corsie per girare nel parcheggio; di solito individuo una corsia di passaggio che ti permette di andare dalla strada al parcheggio e viceversa, e quella la metto solo highway=service. Ad esempio [2] [3] Ciao, Simone [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:parking:condition [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.323391lon=8.394746zoom=18layers=M [3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.334468lon=8.419443zoom=18layers=M ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Saluti ed aiuto con sensi unici FVG
Il giorno 20 febbraio 2013 17:56, Marco_T toto...@libero.it ha scritto: bruno bruno at anche.no writes: Ho dato un'occhiata solo a via Pranuf, e mi sembra tutto ok: la via è al contrario rispetto all'originale (che era da Via Stentarie a Via Udine), oneway è impostato e osrm la percorre in quel senso, da destra verso sinistra. Su Google Maps è disegnata allo stesso modo, e da Street View risulta che quello è il modo giusto. In effetti osrm funziona correttamente, mentre il primo e il terzo motore di routing (del link precedente) vanno contromano. Mah!. Grazie 1000 per la risposta. Ciao. Può darsi che abbiano dati vecchi? Non tutti i consumatori aggiornano i dati con la stessa frequenza o nello stesso momento. Ciao, Simone ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] incontro domani
Vorrei ricordarvi che domani ci incontriamo dalle 18:30 h alla birreria di Eataly, Airterminal Stazione Ostiense. Sulla relativa pagina nel wiki ci sono solo 3 persone inscritte per ora, ma speriamo che ci viene qualcuno in più, se avete intenzione di venire aggiungetevi all'elenco: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rome/Incontro/22-2-2013 ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] quanto tempo ci mette di solito a registrare le variazioni?[pla2]
Il giorno 21 febbraio 2013 11:14, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com ha scritto: 2013/2/21 Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com: Disegna la strada principale, quella di traffico, normalmente (dovrebbe avere il nome della piazza o del largo). Poi disegna una way chiusa che delimita l'area del parcheggio, e taggala amenity=parking. Puoi aggiungere parking:condition:area=free/disc/ticket/... (vedi qui [1] ), non conoscevo ancora parking:condition, per indicare se (e quanto) costa parcheggiare al solito si usa la chiave fee: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fee fee=yes/no è il metodo più diffuso, ma trovo che parking:condition sia migliore: - permette di uniformare il tagging dei parcheggi ai lati delle strade (parking:condition:left, parking:condition:right, parking:condition:both) a quello delle aree di parcheggio (parking:condition:area); - dà più informazioni - fa parte di uno schema di tagging ben costruito, che è usato dalla principale mappa di parcheggi [1] Ciao, Simone [1] parking.openstreetmap.de ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] mi ci date un'occhiata??[pla3]
2013/2/21 Andrea Musuruane musur...@gmail.com: In generale le strade della zona non mi sembrano allineate alle Ortofoto. in generale abbiamo deciso di dare precedenza alle ortofoto del PCN (dal 2008) rispetto a quelli da Bing per l'allineamento/posizione (ovviamente se ci sono stati modifiche nel mondo reale, per ciò che si trova lì la realtà ha la precedenza ;-) ). Questa decisione deriva da tanti osservazioni che confermano finora che le foto del PCN sono georiferenziate migliormente rispetto a Bing (ma Bing ha una risoluzione più alta e quindi serve per derivare dettagli che non si vedono nel PCN). ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] quanto tempo ci mette di solito a registrare le variazioni?[pla2]
2013/2/21 Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com: Il giorno 21 febbraio 2013 11:14, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com ha scritto: 2013/2/21 Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com: Disegna la strada principale, quella di traffico, normalmente (dovrebbe avere il nome della piazza o del largo). Poi disegna una way chiusa che delimita l'area del parcheggio, e taggala amenity=parking. Puoi aggiungere parking:condition:area=free/disc/ticket/... (vedi qui [1] ), non conoscevo ancora parking:condition, per indicare se (e quanto) costa parcheggiare al solito si usa la chiave fee: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fee fee=yes/no è il metodo più diffuso, ma trovo che parking:condition sia migliore: - permette di uniformare il tagging dei parcheggi ai lati delle strade (parking:condition:left, parking:condition:right, parking:condition:both) a quello delle aree di parcheggio (parking:condition:area); - dà più informazioni - fa parte di uno schema di tagging ben costruito, che è usato dalla principale mappa di parcheggi [1] Va bene che potrebbe essere un metodo per aggiungere ulteriori dettagli, ma non è introdotto ampiamente, anzi il tag per aree non si trova da nessuna parte nel wiki, e quindi si dovrebbe far notare questo fatto ad un principiante che chiede aiuto. Quella proposta non è ancora consistente: Per esempio dice: parking:lane:both:parallel=* e sotto: Examples parking:lane:both=parallel In più la pagina è esplicito che non si applica a parcheggi (prima frase:) The keys parking:lane=* and parking:condition=* define whether or not the highways themselves have parking, on which sides, and with which conditions. For parking in designated areas, please see Tag:amenity=parking. Quindi per me le informazioni riguardando un parcheggio si trovano sopratutto qui: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dparking Se vogliamo poi aggiungere ulteriori dettagli con un tag come quello proposto per le lanes, benvenga. ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] quanto tempo ci mette di solito a registrare le variazioni?[pla2]
Il giorno 21 febbraio 2013 12:06, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com ha scritto: 2013/2/21 Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com: Il giorno 21 febbraio 2013 11:14, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com ha scritto: 2013/2/21 Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com: Disegna la strada principale, quella di traffico, normalmente (dovrebbe avere il nome della piazza o del largo). Poi disegna una way chiusa che delimita l'area del parcheggio, e taggala amenity=parking. Puoi aggiungere parking:condition:area=free/disc/ticket/... (vedi qui [1] ), non conoscevo ancora parking:condition, per indicare se (e quanto) costa parcheggiare al solito si usa la chiave fee: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fee fee=yes/no è il metodo più diffuso, ma trovo che parking:condition sia migliore: - permette di uniformare il tagging dei parcheggi ai lati delle strade (parking:condition:left, parking:condition:right, parking:condition:both) a quello delle aree di parcheggio (parking:condition:area); - dà più informazioni - fa parte di uno schema di tagging ben costruito, che è usato dalla principale mappa di parcheggi [1] Va bene che potrebbe essere un metodo per aggiungere ulteriori dettagli, ma non è introdotto ampiamente, anzi il tag per aree non si trova da nessuna parte nel wiki, e quindi si dovrebbe far notare questo fatto ad un principiante che chiede aiuto. Quella proposta non è ancora consistente: Per esempio dice: parking:lane:both:parallel=* e sotto: Examples parking:lane:both=parallel In più la pagina è esplicito che non si applica a parcheggi (prima frase:) The keys parking:lane=* and parking:condition=* define whether or not the highways themselves have parking, on which sides, and with which conditions. For parking in designated areas, please see Tag:amenity=parking. In realtà questo significa che la definizione di dove si trova il parcheggio viene fatta con un altro tag. Non implica che il sistema di condizioni non sia applicabile. Quindi per me le informazioni riguardando un parcheggio si trovano sopratutto qui: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dparking Se vogliamo poi aggiungere ulteriori dettagli con un tag come quello proposto per le lanes, benvenga. Ammetto che la pagina wiki non è proprio il massimo. Tuttavia, sia l'implementazione di parking.openstreetmap.de, sia quella dei preset di JOSM (preset aggiuntivi, vanno scaricati) sono consistenti. Forse bisognerebbe allineare il wiki a quanto risulta dall'implementazione. Ciao, Simone ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] quanto tempo ci mette di solito a registrare le variazioni?[pla2]
propongo di usare parking:condition=disc ecc. (perchè si tratta del modo generico, poi nel caso si dovesse applicare solo da un lato (di un highway) si aggiunge un :left / :right come previsto). ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] incontro domani
Mannaggia... io sarei anche venuto a conoscervi, in qualità di neo-romano-importato (ma vecchio mappatore), però giusto domani devo rientrare a Torino per le votazioni... Sarà per un'altra volta :-) Maurizio. Il giorno 21 febbraio 2013 11:07, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com ha scritto: Vorrei ricordarvi che domani ci incontriamo dalle 18:30 h alla birreria di Eataly, Airterminal Stazione Ostiense. Sulla relativa pagina nel wiki ci sono solo 3 persone inscritte per ora, ma speriamo che ci viene qualcuno in più, se avete intenzione di venire aggiungetevi all'elenco: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rome/Incontro/22-2-2013 ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] incontro domani
2013/2/21 Maurizio Daniele maurizio.dani...@gmail.com: Mannaggia... io sarei anche venuto a conoscervi, in qualità di neo-romano-importato (ma vecchio mappatore), però giusto domani devo rientrare a Torino per le votazioni... Sarà per un'altra volta :-) si, spero che lo faremmo più spesso adesso. ciao, Martin PS: mi ricorda un po' la bibbia questo fatto che ciascuno deve ritornare nella sua città per votare 1 In quei giorni un decreto di Cesare Augusto ordinò che si facesse il censimento di tutta la terra. 2 Questo primo censimento fu fatto quando era governatore della Siria Quirinio. 3 Andavano tutti a farsi registrare, ciascuno nella sua città. ;-) ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] mi ci date un'occhiata??[pla3]
On 21/02/2013 11:31, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2013/2/21 Andrea Musuruane musur...@gmail.com: In generale le strade della zona non mi sembrano allineate alle Ortofoto. in generale abbiamo deciso di dare precedenza alle ortofoto del PCN (dal 2008) rispetto a quelli da Bing per l'allineamento/posizione (ovviamente se ci sono stati modifiche nel mondo reale, per ciò che si trova lì la realtà ha la precedenza ;-) ). Questa decisione deriva da tanti osservazioni che confermano finora che le foto del PCN sono georiferenziate migliormente rispetto a Bing (ma Bing ha una risoluzione più alta e quindi serve per derivare dettagli che non si vedono nel PCN). in questo caso, le ortofoto non so quando siano state fatte, la strada in questione e' stata aperta 1 mese fa, io l'ho fatta con i tracciati del navigatore OSM, per le parti che ancora non esistevano, per quelle che gia' esistevano ho cercato di fare i raccordi, sono insicuro su una zona che ripercorrero' a breve con il navogatore e verifichero' ciao :-) grazie P. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] mi ci date un'occhiata??[pla3]
On 21/02/2013 09:44, Andrea Musuruane wrote: 2013/2/21 yahoo-pier_andreit pier_andr...@yahoo.it mailto:pier_andr...@yahoo.it qui http://www.openstreetmap.org/?__lat=41.66898lon=12.64619__zoom=15layers=M http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.66898lon=12.64619zoom=15layers=M ho aggiunto la strada e le rotonde che vanno da via nettunense a via ardeatina, siccome e' la prima volta che lo faccio, qualcuno esperto puo' dirmi se va bene oppure se c'e' qualcosa che andrebbe fatto diversamente??? Questa rotonda non è tale, manca l'attributo junction=roundabout, gli attributi highway=tertiary_link e secondary_link sono errati. http://osm.org/go/xcW6pcmDD-- ok mo vedo Anche alle altre rotonde manca junction=roundabout. ok appena trovo l'attributo lo modifico Poi non sono rotonde (usare la funzione disponi i nodi in cerchio di JOSM). si, l'ho scoperta ieri ok... Qui c'è un segmento duplicato sovrapposto: http://osm.org/go/xcW6rGJaN-- lo devo eliminare cioe', se una strada poi diventa una rotonda, devo interrompere la strada, inserire la rotonda, e come risultato non avere segmenti sovrapposti I nomi si scrivono con l'iniziale maiuscola. Quindi Via Nettunese e non via nettunese. anche Via??? Qui mi sembra che manchi una strada di accesso alla rotonda (vedo solo quella in uscita): http://osm.org/go/xcW6q0qcf-- mo guardo Inoltre, la strada unclassified parte dalla rotonda ma non è collegata a questa: http://osm.org/go/xcW6qySMo-- ok mo vedo In generale le strade della zona non mi sembrano allineate alle Ortofoto. la strada e' stata aperta da un mese, non so le ortofoto di quando sono, io le ho fatte con OSMtrack, quelle nuove, quelle che gia' c'erano le ho lasciate li' Qui mi sembra strano che ci sia un pezzo tertiary in mezzo a due tratti secondary: http://osm.org/go/xcW6sgJh la realta' e' cosi', la secondary (come concetto di secondary io intendo una strada abbastanza larga) e' stata appena fatta, la tertiary (come concetto di tertiary intendo una strada stretta e bruttarella come asfalto) c'era gia' prima e cosi' l'ho lasciata Infine noto una Ex Ferrovia Albano Laz. - Nettuno (tra l'altro non si usano abbreviazioni). Però dalle ortofoto non vedo nessuna ferrovia abbandonata. Secondo me se è stata smantellata non deve essere mappata. Noi descriviamo la realtà, non la storia. non l'ho messa io, se ci faccio una scappata vedo se c'e' ancora qualche pezzo di binario,,,:-) :-) :-) Ciao, Andrea. grazie :-) ciao :-) P. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] mi ci date un'occhiata??[pla3]
On 21/02/2013 09:44, Andrea Musuruane wrote: 2013/2/21 yahoo-pier_andreit pier_andr...@yahoo.it mailto:pier_andr...@yahoo.it qui http://www.openstreetmap.org/?__lat=41.66898lon=12.64619__zoom=15layers=M http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.66898lon=12.64619zoom=15layers=M ho aggiunto la strada e le rotonde che vanno da via nettunense a via ardeatina, siccome e' la prima volta che lo faccio, qualcuno esperto puo' dirmi se va bene oppure se c'e' qualcosa che andrebbe fatto diversamente??? Questa rotonda non è tale, manca l'attributo junction=roundabout, gli attributi highway=tertiary_link e secondary_link sono errati. http://osm.org/go/xcW6pcmDD-- ho trovato solo tertiary link, dove sta il potlach (quello da browser) l'attributo junction =roundabout? ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] incontro domani
On 21/02/2013 11:07, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Vorrei ricordarvi che domani ci incontriamo dalle 18:30 h alla birreria di Eataly, Airterminal Stazione Ostiense. Sulla relativa pagina nel wiki ci sono solo 3 persone inscritte per ora, ma speriamo che ci viene qualcuno in più, se avete intenzione di venire aggiungetevi all'elenco: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rome/Incontro/22-2-2013 ciao, Martin non sono molto pratico di roma, domani dovrei trovarmi a frascati, come potrei arrivare all'incontro??? macchina?? macchina metro?? macchina pulman?? grazie :-) ciao :-) P. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] incontro domani
Il 21/02/2013 17:57, yahoo-pier_andreit ha scritto: non sono molto pratico di roma, domani dovrei trovarmi a frascati, come potrei arrivare all'incontro??? macchina?? macchina metro?? macchina pulman?? grazie :-) ciao :-) P. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it Prendi la metro B e scendi a Piramide. Da lì, seguendo i cartelli nei sottopassaggi, arriverai in men che non si dica a Eataly ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] incontro domani
Il giorno 21 febbraio 2013 18:33, Caterpillar caterpilla...@gmail.com ha scritto: Il 21/02/2013 17:57, yahoo-pier_andreit ha scritto: non sono molto pratico di roma, domani dovrei trovarmi a frascati, Prendi la metro B e scendi a Piramide. Da lì, seguendo i cartelli nei sottopassaggi, arriverai in men che non si dica a Eataly Beh, da Frascati dovrebbe prima prendere il treno fino a Termini... Andare da Eataly Roma in auto per chi non è pratico direi che è almeno sconsigliabile. L'alternativa è auto fino ad Anagnina e poi Metro A (fino a termini) + Metro B (fino a Piramide) -- Maurizio Daniele - maurizio.daniele (a) gmail.com ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] mi ci date un'occhiata??[pla3]
On 21/02/2013 09:44, Andrea Musuruane wrote: 2013/2/21 yahoo-pier_andreit pier_andr...@yahoo.it mailto:pier_andr...@yahoo.it qui http://www.openstreetmap.org/?__lat=41.66898lon=12.64619__zoom=15layers=M http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.66898lon=12.64619zoom=15layers=M ho aggiunto la strada e le rotonde che vanno da via nettunense a via ardeatina, siccome e' la prima volta che lo faccio, qualcuno esperto puo' dirmi se va bene oppure se c'e' qualcosa che andrebbe fatto diversamente??? Questa rotonda non è tale, manca l'attributo junction=roundabout, gli attributi highway=tertiary_link e secondary_link sono errati. http://osm.org/go/xcW6pcmDD-- Anche alle altre rotonde manca junction=roundabout. ho provato a correggere la cosa in JOSM ma poi il potlach (quello da browser) non me lo riconosce, come devo fare??/ ciao, :-) grazie :-) P. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] incontro domani
2013/2/21 Maurizio Daniele maurizio.dani...@gmail.com: Il giorno 21 febbraio 2013 18:33, Caterpillar caterpilla...@gmail.com ha scritto: Il 21/02/2013 17:57, yahoo-pier_andreit ha scritto: non sono molto pratico di roma, domani dovrei trovarmi a frascati, Prendi la metro B e scendi a Piramide. Da lì, seguendo i cartelli nei sottopassaggi, arriverai in men che non si dica a Eataly Beh, da Frascati dovrebbe prima prendere il treno fino a Termini... Andare da Eataly Roma in auto per chi non è pratico direi che è almeno sconsigliabile. L'alternativa è auto fino ad Anagnina e poi Metro A (fino a termini) + Metro B (fino a Piramide) Io ci andrei in macchina, o anche col treno se conviene (stazione Ostiense). Certo anche con autobus e Metro B è raggiungibile, ma dalla Metro si camina quasi mezzo chilometro sotto terra, è più vicina la stazione dei treni: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=41.871302mlon=12.486826zoom=18layers=M/ Si trova dentro la nuova/vecchia ex-stazione, il cosidetto AirTerminal, pensato per servire come hub al aeroporto di Fiumicino ed inaugurato per i mondiali nel 1990. Non ho mai capito perché non è rimasto in funzione, ma adesso al meno ha trovato un utilizzo dopo anni di degrado e inutilizzazione ;-) http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stazione_di_Roma_Ostiense Visto che si tratta di venerdì sera alle 18:30 mi aspetto una situazione relativamente ottimale al riguardo di parcheggi gratuiti e liberi nelle circostanze (se non vanno tutti da Eataly). Per arrivare in macchina andrei da dietro (Circonvallazione Ostiense o Via Capitan Bavastro verso Piazzale 12 Ottobre 1942 oppure da via Ostiense verso via Matteucci). ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-lt] Openlayers galimybės vizualizuoti?
Ačiū Tomai už atsakymai, bet 3 klausimo atsakyme, tu paminėjai kaip pasiėmi duomenis ir analizuoji juos, čia manau nėra sudėtingas reikalas, pasiemi duomenis, susiimportuoji į savo DB, o poto tiesiog visokius duomenu bazės pjuvius darai. Aš labiau norėjau sužinoti čia kaip darot dėl tarkim kokių piliakalnių sukėlimo į OSM, jei turime tik piliakalniu sąraša excel formatu, nemanau kad rankomis deliojate kokiame JOSM, manau kažkaip automatizuotai supučiat viską į OSM (jei taip, tai kokiu maždaug budu). P.S. Manau reikėtu kažkur surašyti rekomendacijas, ar šiaip sistemas, kurias naudoja OSM programuotojai, manau gal tada atsirastu daugiau norinčiu prisijungti programuoti, nes dabar matai kad yra tarkim užduotis padaryti CSV importą ir atvaizdavimą duomenų, bet nežinai nei kur, kaip daryt, jei ir padarysi pas save lokaliai, ar tai savo serveryje, tai irgi kažkokia bus manau nesamonė, nes nebus kažkur centralizuotai, pas Toma serveryje vienokie kodai ir vienokius dalykus daro serveris, pas Ramuna vel visai kitaip padaryta ir vel tik pas ji serveryje, koks nors kitas programuotojas susikurs irgi kažką pas save, tai gausis visur išmėtita po skirtingus serverius. Pvz.: Pas mane tarkim koks csv importas ir atvaizdavimas, pas kokį Tomą guli piliakalniai, pas Ramuna tarkim viešojo maršuto koks impportavimas. Būtu manau kažkaip patogu jei viskas būtų vienoje vietoje, nu turiu omenyje kad yra kažkokia sistema, ir programuotojai galėtu sukurti kažką tarkim pradžoje pas save, o vėliau galėtų ištestave kažkaip integruoti į kažkokią bendra sistema (gal net ir į ta pačia openmap.lt), nu kaip panasiai maps.lt, ateini ir matai vis kazkokių naujų feature, tai atvaizduoja ten kažkokius rinkimus rezultatus, tai kuriuose rajonuose serga gripu (gripo apidemija paskelbima), tai kokia parduotuvių tinklą (pvz IKI) ar dar kažką, tada manau galėtume pasiskirstyt kas tarkim kokius duomenis analizuoja ir daro importavima, nes dabar pilnai suprantu kad Tomui ar Ramunui viską daryt vieniems ir sudėtinga. Ta pati Tomo duomenų analyzė susijusi su Gatvėmis. Jei būtu ne pas Tomą o kažkur bendrai, tai tarkim Tomas galėtu padaryt gatvių analizę, koks nors kitas žmogus kokį tarkim viešbučių analizę, dar kitas kažkokią kita analizę ir viskas būtų vienoje vietoje, ir būtų visiems paprasčiau viską surasti ir sužiūrėti ko trūkstą OSM, nes tas lakstymas per daug URL irgi nėra geras sprendimas. Nu tikiuosi supratote ką aš čia prirašiau. 2013/2/21 Tomas Straupis tomasstrau...@gmail.com 2013 m. vasaris 21 d. 09:21, Paulius Masiliūnas rašė: 1) Kokia programine kalba pagrinde naudojat (Python, Ruby, PHP, ar dar kažkokia kita) ar čia jokio skirtumo, kokia moki tokia ir naudoji? Mano atveju: 1. Duombazės pusė PostgreSql plsql. 2. Puslapiai php + javascript 3. Darbų tinginizavimui (automatizavimui) kažkiek bash/perl Ramūnas gal kažką daugiau naudoja? 2) Jei darote kažkokius duomenų atvaizdavimus, tai ar kuriate savo mapserver kaip pvz,: openmap.lt, ar tiesiog paimate openstreetmap.org map ir kuriate layer savus (pirmu variantu reikia dar gerai moket susikonfiguruoti serverį). Yra savi mapnikai, bet ši dalis jungiantis naujiems programuotojams nėra būtina, visada galima naudoti arba standartinį openstreetmap tile serverį, arba openmap.lt (jei nereikia stabilumo - tai ir samogitian variantą). 3) Jei darote kažkokių duomenų importavimą iš kitų šaltinių, kur tuos duomenis talpinate, ar pas save serveriuose ant koki PostgreSql (o gal MySQL), ar kažkur centralizuotai, kažkaip iškart į openstreetmap.org sistema. Mano atveju duomenys (Lietuvos) kasdien susirenkami iš downloads.geofarbrik.de ir osm2pgsql pagalba sukeliami į lokalią postgresql db. openmap.lt atveju schema žymiai sudėtingesnė, galingesnė, lankstesnė, platesnė ir pan., bet ten jau Ramūno daržas :) -- Tomas ___ Talk-lt mailing list Talk-lt@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lt ___ Talk-lt mailing list Talk-lt@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lt
[Talk-lt] Duomenų sinchronizacija
Kadangi tema pakrypo link duomenų sinchronizavimo, tai pradžiai apie tai. Štai pristatymas, kurį buvau paruošęs mūsų susitikimui: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0sWMShmYsbRaVdKT21Md3dNdEU/edit?usp=sharing Pristatymas ruoštas su mintimi, kad aš pasakosiu, tai vien iš skaidrių mintis gali būti neaiški, bet kryptį turėtų būti galima pagauti. Taigi šiek tiek apie sinchronizavimo dalį (13 skaidrė „Sinchronizacijos schema“). Idėja tokia: sukurti ne konkrečių duomenų importavimo įrankius (daug), o abstrakčių duomenų (tipų) sulyginimo/importavimo mechanizmą (vieną). T.y. 1. Randame kažkokius (bet kokius) išorinius šaltinius. 2. Parašome jiems transformacijas į mums suprantamą formatą. 3. Darome periodinius sulyginimus su OSM esamais duomenimis. 4. Skirtumus apdorojame rankomis arba automatiniais skriptais (kas konkrečiai naudojama priklauso nuo situacijos su tendencija į 100% automatizavimą). Tokiu būdu pradinė realizacija bus kiek sudėtingesnė, bet ilgainiui (atsiradus daugiau duomenų šaltinių) turėtume laimėti: 1. tokiu būdu „darbus“ galima pasiskirstyti: vieni ieško šaltinių, kiti daro transformacijas, treti dirba su duomenimis (mažiau dviračio perišradinėjimo) 2. tas pats mechanizmas veiktų ir kaip esamų duomenų tikrinimas ir išorinių duomenų pasikeitimo sekimas Dabar prie konkrečių klausimų: 2013 m. vasaris 21 d. 10:09, Paulius Masiliūnas rašė: Aš labiau norėjau sužinoti čia kaip darot dėl tarkim kokių piliakalnių sukėlimo į OSM, jei turime tik piliakalniu sąraša excel formatu, nemanau kad rankomis deliojate kokiame JOSM, manau kažkaip automatizuotai supučiat viską į OSM (jei taip, tai kokiu maždaug budu). Piliakalniai - nelabai geras pavyzdys, nes jie kaipo tokie man asmeniškai labai įdomūs, todėl su kiekvienu piliakalniu aš padarau gerokai daugiau, nei kad tiesiog įkeliu duomenis. Bet automatizuojamoji pusė tokia: skriptai aptinka, kokių piliakalnių dar nėra OSM'e arba kurie yra, bet duomenys šiek tiek skiriasi (žodžiu eile sql užklausų apdorojamos ir paklaidos/netikslumai). Taigi visi pradiniai išoriniai duomenys suskirstomi į „YRA“, „NĖRA“ ir „BEVEIK“. Tada sukuria man xml failą, kurį atsidarau JOSM'e ir per jį galiu duomenis tiesiog nusiųsti į OSM DB (realiai prieš nusiuntimą rankomis padaroma daug kitų pakeitimų/papildymų, dažniausiai piliakalnio info įkėlimo changeset'e būna ~1000 objektų). Jei klausimas apie automatinį OSM DB duomenų keitimą, tai yra eilė variantų, nuo tiesioginio API naudojimo, iki jau paruoštų visokių python skriptų ir pan. Apie šitai, manau, kiti daugiau papasakos, nes aš pakankamai nedaug visiškai automatinių pakeitimų darau. P.S. Manau reikėtu kažkur surašyti rekomendacijas, ar šiaip sistemas, kurias naudoja OSM programuotojai, ... Čia yra dvi dalys: 1. Patarimai, kaip panaudoti OSM savo kuriamame puslapyje/produkte (tarkime kaip kompanijai įsidėti žemėlapį su savo tarkim parduotuvių koordinatėmis ir papildoma informacija) 2. Kaip prisidėti prie „bendro“ OSM produktų/paslaugų rinkinio plėtimo. Dėl pirmo punkto - yra planai sudėti į wikibooks informaciją. Dėl antro punkto - kiek pamenu, Ramūnas sutiko (Ramūnai, pataisyk, jei klystu), kad viską galima dėti į openmap.lt (darant pull requestus į openmap.lt git'ą). openmap.lt yra vienintelė vieta, kur guli LT daryti „production“ produktai. Pas mane guli tik visokie PoC, pasibandymai, pasižaidimai ir pan. Ir samogitian negarantuoja ir nesiruošia garantuoti jokio stabilaus „uptime“. manau gal tada atsirastu daugiau norinčiu prisijungti programuoti, nes dabar matai kad yra tarkim užduotis padaryti CSV importą ir atvaizdavimą duomenų, bet nežinai nei kur, kaip daryt, Yra LABAI daug dalykų, kuriuos galima padaryti. Manau netikslinga (o gal ir neįmanoma) aprašinėti, kaip visus juos reikėtų daryti. Tuo labiau, kad visa OSM ekosistema pastoviai keičiasi. Tai gali gautis, kad per daug darbo bus įdedama veltui atnaujinant tokius aprašymus. Mano galva, jei kas nors nori užsiimti kokia nors užduotimi: 1. Savo sugalvota 2. Kitų anksčiau pasiūlyta (https://www.pivotaltracker.com/projects/462023 - įjunkite dalį „ICEBOX“) Reikia apie tai parašyti į talk-lt. Tada bus aišku, ar yra kitų, norinčiu užsiimti pasirinktu darbu. Tada bus galima ir konkrečią užduoti aptarti/patarti. vaje koks ilgas laiškas gavosi... aš pats tokius retai teskaitau... :-) -- Tomas ___ Talk-lt mailing list Talk-lt@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lt
Re: [Talk-lt] Openlayers galimybės vizualizuoti?
2013/2/21 Paulius Masiliūnas paulius...@gmail.com Ačiū Tomai už atsakymai, bet 3 klausimo atsakyme, tu paminėjai kaip pasiėmi duomenis ir analizuoji juos, čia manau nėra sudėtingas reikalas, pasiemi duomenis, susiimportuoji į savo DB, o poto tiesiog visokius duomenu bazės pjuvius darai. Aš labiau norėjau sužinoti čia kaip darot dėl tarkim kokių piliakalnių sukėlimo į OSM, jei turime tik piliakalniu sąraša excel formatu, nemanau kad rankomis deliojate kokiame JOSM, manau kažkaip automatizuotai supučiat viską į OSM (jei taip, tai kokiu maždaug budu). P.S. Manau reikėtu kažkur surašyti rekomendacijas, ar šiaip sistemas, kurias naudoja OSM programuotojai, manau gal tada atsirastu daugiau norinčiu prisijungti programuoti, nes dabar matai kad yra tarkim užduotis padaryti CSV importą ir atvaizdavimą duomenų, bet nežinai nei kur, kaip daryt, jei ir padarysi pas save lokaliai, ar tai savo serveryje, tai irgi kažkokia bus manau nesamonė, nes nebus kažkur centralizuotai, pas Toma serveryje vienokie kodai ir vienokius dalykus daro serveris, pas Ramuna vel visai kitaip padaryta ir vel tik pas ji serveryje, koks nors kitas programuotojas susikurs irgi kažką pas save, tai gausis visur išmėtita po skirtingus serverius. Pvz.: Pas mane tarkim koks csv importas ir atvaizdavimas, pas kokį Tomą guli piliakalniai, pas Ramuna tarkim viešojo maršuto koks impportavimas. Būtu manau kažkaip patogu jei viskas būtų vienoje vietoje, nu turiu omenyje kad yra kažkokia sistema, ir programuotojai galėtu sukurti kažką tarkim pradžoje pas save, o vėliau galėtų ištestave kažkaip integruoti į kažkokią bendra sistema (gal net ir į ta pačia openmap.lt), nu kaip panasiai maps.lt, ateini ir matai vis kazkokių naujų feature, tai atvaizduoja ten kažkokius rinkimus rezultatus, tai kuriuose rajonuose serga gripu (gripo apidemija paskelbima), tai kokia parduotuvių tinklą (pvz IKI) ar dar kažką, tada manau galėtume pasiskirstyt kas tarkim kokius duomenis analizuoja ir daro importavima, nes dabar pilnai suprantu kad Tomui ar Ramunui viską daryt vieniems ir sudėtinga. Ta pati Tomo duomenų analyzė susijusi su Gatvėmis. Jei būtu ne pas Tomą o kažkur bendrai, tai tarkim Tomas galėtu padaryt gatvių analizę, koks nors kitas žmogus kokį tarkim viešbučių analizę, dar kitas kažkokią kita analizę ir viskas būtų vienoje vietoje, ir būtų visiems paprasčiau viską surasti ir sužiūrėti ko trūkstą OSM, nes tas lakstymas per daug URL irgi nėra geras sprendimas. Nu tikiuosi supratote ką aš čia prirašiau. Pauliau, mintis graži, bet problema tame, kad nėra vaisto nuo visų ligų. Yra daugybė individualių atvejų, kuriems reikia taikyti unikalius sprendimus. O pagaminti tris paprastus prietaisus yra lengviau nei vieną universalų. Juolabiau, ne pirmą kartą susiduriam su iniciatyvos trūkumo problema - kalbėt lyg ir kalbama, bet tik vienetai imasi realių darbų. Kitas dalykas, aš pats visai nenoriu įsileisti į savo daržą nesaugaus kodo. Taip rizikuočiau ne tik naujai bet ir anksčiau sukurtais dalykais, o pradėjus keisti kodus lieku nesuprastas... Dėl visiems suprantamų priežasčių taip pat nenorėčiau nelegalių arba neaiškios kilmės duomenų host'inti. P.S. openmap.lt kodas yra atviras, pasiūlymų ir kontaktų forma veikia. ___ Talk-lt mailing list Talk-lt@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lt
Re: [Talk-lt] Openlayers galimybės vizualizuoti?
2013/2/21 Tomas Straupis tomasstrau...@gmail.com Nors galutinis tikslas ir yra gauti prieigą prie aktualios adresų db, bet... pačiai pradžiai mums labai praverstų ir tiesiog OFICIALUS LEIDIMAS „pasižiūrėti ir nusikopijuoti“ duomenis iš tarkim vilnius.lt/zemelapis/ į osm... Eitume per trūkstamų gatvių sąrašą, rastume gatves vilnius.lt/zemelapis/ ir suvestume į osm. Manau gan greit turėtume pilną Vilniaus gatvių sąrašą... Pritariu. Gan greit pagaminčiau persidengiančius sluoksnius su aiškiai matomom klaidom ir trūkumais. ___ Talk-lt mailing list Talk-lt@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lt
Re: [Talk-dk] OpenStreetMap ved Open Data Day lørdag 23. februar
On 20-02-2013 11:41, Soren Johannessen wrote: Hej alle sammen På lørdag afholdes den internationale Open Data Day http://opendataday.org/ i byer verden over. Alle tiders. Jeg regner med at dukke op. Nationalmuseet i København lægger lokaler til den danske begivenhed. Som tillæg til dagen har jeg fået lagt et begynderkursus i OpenStreetMap ind på denne dag fra kl. 13.30 til kl. ca 16.00. Hvis der er nogen af jer erfarne, som har tid og lyst i det tidsrum til at være klar til hjælpe nybegyndere med svar/hjælp, mens de selv er gået i gang med at lære det grundlæggende kortlægning - Så må I meget gerne møde op. Jeg har skrevet lidt om selve OpenStreetMap kursus den dag her http://www.microformats.dk/2013/02/20/l%C3%A6r-openstreetmap-til-open-data-day-l%C3%B8rdag-23-februar-2013/ Med venlig hilsen Søren Johannessen ___ Talk-dk mailing list Talk-dk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-dk ___ Talk-dk mailing list Talk-dk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-dk
Re: [Talk-se] Lomma kommun
Kan meddela att importen är färdig, och alla valideringsfel är åtgärdade (det tog sin lilla stund). Just som jag blev klar fick jag dock ett halvsurt meddelande från http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/pnorman som påpekade att jag inte frågat importgruppen om lov innan importen... Förhoppningsvis betyder inte det att alla redigeringar återställs, men på tonen känns det som att det finns en risk... Bland annat klagade de över att jag inte skapat ett eget konto för importen, något jag inte kände till behövdes. De andra invändningarna var som sagt att jag inte kontaktat import-maillistan och inte hade dokumenterat importen på wikin. Han frågade också om jag fått communitiens tillstånd så jag länkade hit, till en diskussion han ju dock inte kan läsa. Skulle kännas lite småbittert att få ett par dagars arbete ogjort pga formfel, men det hoppas jag verkligen att vi slipper. /Andreas PS: Min åsikt om http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import_guidelines är att den innehåller en hel del vettigt, men att den tyvärr utgår helt och hållet ifrån att importer är av ondo, istället för motsatsen. 2013/2/18 Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com: 2013/2/18 Andreas Vilén andreas.vi...@gmail.com: För tydlighetens skull: inget i Lomma och Bjärreds tätorter är importerat än. Det som finns där är sådant som mappats tidigare. Radhusområdet du länkat till är väl precis så som vi ska mappa sådana? Jag kommer att försöka åstadkomma det med importen, även om jag sett att datan i nuläget på vissa ställen ger ett gemensamt hus för flera adresser. Vad är det i Habo ljung som ser skumt ut? Husen har olika nyanser eftersom de använder olika typer av hustaggar. Det är bara bra i min mening och vi bör ju inte tagga för renderingen. Ingen av de vägarna i Flädie krockar med byggnaderna - att väglinjerna blir breda i Mapnik så att det ser ut som att de krockar med byggnaderna är ju inte mitt fel. Det är ju inte helt ovanligt med byggnader som går precis i gatlinjen ute på landet. /Andreas Trevligt med data från fler kommuner, och snabbt jobbat Andreas! Jag hoppas original versionen av denna data kommer att läggas upp på Lommas hemsidan också. Jag är lite oroad över vad som händer när/om Lomma släpper ny data om 5 år med nya byggnadsformer. ___ Talk-se mailing list Talk-se@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
Re: [Talk-se] Lomma kommun
2013/2/21 Andreas Vilén andreas.vi...@gmail.com: Skulle kännas lite småbittert att få ett par dagars arbete ogjort pga formfel, men det hoppas jag verkligen att vi slipper. Alla motgångar känns bittra. :-) Nu finns det för mycket plus för detta, ska vi ta upp det om import på talk listan? Jag tittade lite på data, intressant att building=roof rendras annorlunda än building=[house|garage] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.67263lon=13.078796zoom=19 Sedan skulle det vara trevligt att få veta hur Lomma har spec:at sin data, i.e. jag gissar att building=roof lika gärna kan innebära helt inbyggd veranda som kanske är en liten förskjutning av meningen med den taggen. MvH Erik ___ Talk-se mailing list Talk-se@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
Re: [Talk-se] Lomma kommun
Ja, det var strikta regler med att få någon form av godkännande från en importgrupp, sådant dödar ju engagemang. Hur som helst känns det hela som du har gjort rätt, vad jag vet så har inte så många andra större importer gjorts i Sverige tidigare. Hoppas importen inte försvinner och så vet vi ju om detta till nästa gång iaf. Med vänlig hälsning -- Christoffer Holmstedt Den 21 februari 2013 09:49 skrev Andreas Vilén andreas.vi...@gmail.com: Kan meddela att importen är färdig, och alla valideringsfel är åtgärdade (det tog sin lilla stund). Just som jag blev klar fick jag dock ett halvsurt meddelande från http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/pnorman som påpekade att jag inte frågat importgruppen om lov innan importen... Förhoppningsvis betyder inte det att alla redigeringar återställs, men på tonen känns det som att det finns en risk... Bland annat klagade de över att jag inte skapat ett eget konto för importen, något jag inte kände till behövdes. De andra invändningarna var som sagt att jag inte kontaktat import-maillistan och inte hade dokumenterat importen på wikin. Han frågade också om jag fått communitiens tillstånd så jag länkade hit, till en diskussion han ju dock inte kan läsa. Skulle kännas lite småbittert att få ett par dagars arbete ogjort pga formfel, men det hoppas jag verkligen att vi slipper. /Andreas PS: Min åsikt om http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import_guidelines är att den innehåller en hel del vettigt, men att den tyvärr utgår helt och hållet ifrån att importer är av ondo, istället för motsatsen. 2013/2/18 Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com: 2013/2/18 Andreas Vilén andreas.vi...@gmail.com: För tydlighetens skull: inget i Lomma och Bjärreds tätorter är importerat än. Det som finns där är sådant som mappats tidigare. Radhusområdet du länkat till är väl precis så som vi ska mappa sådana? Jag kommer att försöka åstadkomma det med importen, även om jag sett att datan i nuläget på vissa ställen ger ett gemensamt hus för flera adresser. Vad är det i Habo ljung som ser skumt ut? Husen har olika nyanser eftersom de använder olika typer av hustaggar. Det är bara bra i min mening och vi bör ju inte tagga för renderingen. Ingen av de vägarna i Flädie krockar med byggnaderna - att väglinjerna blir breda i Mapnik så att det ser ut som att de krockar med byggnaderna är ju inte mitt fel. Det är ju inte helt ovanligt med byggnader som går precis i gatlinjen ute på landet. /Andreas Trevligt med data från fler kommuner, och snabbt jobbat Andreas! Jag hoppas original versionen av denna data kommer att läggas upp på Lommas hemsidan också. Jag är lite oroad över vad som händer när/om Lomma släpper ny data om 5 år med nya byggnadsformer. ___ Talk-se mailing list Talk-se@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se ___ Talk-se mailing list Talk-se@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
Re: [Talk-se] Lomma kommun
2013/2/21 Christoffer Holmstedt christoffer.holmst...@gmail.com: Ja, det var strikta regler med att få någon form av godkännande från en importgrupp, sådant dödar ju engagemang. Hur som helst känns det hela som du har gjort rätt, vad jag vet så har inte så många andra större importer gjorts i Sverige tidigare. Hoppas importen inte försvinner och så vet vi ju om detta till nästa gång iaf. Det har gjorts många dåliga importer, och folk som importerar är oftast inte så engagerade i data när de är färdiga med importen. E.g. det var någon som importade en massa berg MED NAMN SKRIVNA SÅ HÄR, felstavade dessutom, när jag mailade honom så sa han till mig att fixa det själv då, jag har gjort mitt. ___ Talk-se mailing list Talk-se@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
[Talk-se] Utbredningen av skoterleder det senaste året
Som ni kanske har märkt så dyker det upp lite vägar/leder taggade med snowmobile = designated / yes. Dessa leder syns bl.a. på http://skoterleder.org/ Det är en del nya OSM:are som vi har fått in den vägen som aldrig haft kontakt med OSM tidigare. Här kan man se utbredningen av skoterleder det senaste året: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t44fRWtCek Det har tagit fart nu sista veckorna med många nya områden. På filmen kan man se att bland annat Hudiksvall var en större ort ett tag och att den svenska gränsen ändades admin level och det tog ett tag för mig att ändra så att gränsen renderade igen! Mvh Henrik ___ Talk-se mailing list Talk-se@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
Re: [Talk-se] Lomma kommun
Hej, Jag gjorde så att endast det vi kategoriserat som skärmtak när vi mätte in byggnaden är building=roof sen byggs ju sen ibland till med väggar runt om efteråt osv...Enligt OSM definition så är det 2väggar eller färre väggar och det stämmer rätt bra med vår definition. /Johan From: erjo...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:08:28 +0100 To: andreas.vi...@gmail.com CC: talk-se@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-se] Lomma kommun 2013/2/21 Andreas Vilén andreas.vi...@gmail.com: Skulle kännas lite småbittert att få ett par dagars arbete ogjort pga formfel, men det hoppas jag verkligen att vi slipper. Alla motgångar känns bittra. :-) Nu finns det för mycket plus för detta, ska vi ta upp det om import på talk listan? Jag tittade lite på data, intressant att building=roof rendras annorlunda än building=[house|garage] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.67263lon=13.078796zoom=19 Sedan skulle det vara trevligt att få veta hur Lomma har spec:at sin data, i.e. jag gissar att building=roof lika gärna kan innebära helt inbyggd veranda som kanske är en liten förskjutning av meningen med den taggen. MvH Erik ___ Talk-se mailing list Talk-se@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se ___ Talk-se mailing list Talk-se@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
Re: [Talk-se] Utbredningen av skoterleder det senaste året
2013/2/21 Henrik Rosvall hen...@skoterleder.org: Som ni kanske har märkt så dyker det upp lite vägar/leder taggade med snowmobile = designated / yes. Dessa leder syns bl.a. på http://skoterleder.org/ Kul att det går bra Jag mailade med en skoter kartläggnings nybörjare som jag hittade på: http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/newestosm.php?zoom=6lat=62.48003lon=17.28149layers=B00TTT Det är ganska uppenbart att man måste hjälpa folk ganska mycket innan de förstår hur man karlägger, det tog mig tre mail innan jag förstod att han taggade snowmobile = designated på GPX filen. MvH Erik -- /emj ___ Talk-se mailing list Talk-se@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
Re: [Talk-es] nomenclatura de los municipios
me parece muy bien lo que decís, yo también mapeo de todo, pero bueno mi comentario solo iba por si pasabais por algún municipio y lo veíais de paso. pero veo que si hacéis eso dejáis de mapear tracks, una pena. Ricardo, no te la cojas con papel de fumar, por favor. Mira lo que yo mismo puse en mi único comentario de momento al respecto: Ahora bien, si mientras uno mapea otras cosas se da cuenta de que una aldea está como capital, le cuesta cinco segundos corregirlo. Y se agradece por lo tanto el aviso a navegantes (no pun intended) Creo que David López no ha dicho nada distinto a lo que comenté yo previamente en el mensaje al que él respondía. Y me reitero, como aquí no hay un equipo organizado en un objetivo concreto común (por ejemplo, mapear todas las calles de los municipios de más de 100 habitantes), cada cual aporta lo que puede y cuando puede. Como nadie le va a decir a los demás a qué tienen que dedicar sus esfuerzos, toda contribución es bienvenida. Yo por supuesto no voy a dejar de hacer lo que me interesa para hacer cosas que me parecen de menos interés personal, pero sabiendo que la situación con los municipios es la que es, pondré atención en el futuro (como pongo atención, por ejemplo, a arreglar rotondas allí donde veo una con errores, o a corregir los crossing ways, o cien cosas más, las cuales no son mi objetivo, pero me cuesta poco arreglar). Que a los contenidos de OSM en España les falta cantidad y calidad no lo pone en duda nadie, sólo hay que darse un paseo con cualquier render por Austria, Alemania e incluso UK, y comparar con España, y ver qué enormidad de trabajo nos queda por hacer. Yo por mi parte y en la medida de mis limitadas capacidades estoy pontificando a ver si alguien del entorno en que me muevo se anima a contribuir a OSM, pues hasta la fecha la gente se las apaña rapiñando mapas de terceros (Topohispania y otros Topo-loquesea varios), en lugar de llorar tanto con que tal sendero falta en Topohispania, o tal pueblo aún no existe en Topopirineos. Pero por desgracia, en el país de los 6 milliones de parados, somos ¿unas docenas? los que añadimos contenidos a OSM con cierta regularidad y en cantidad. Y nada más lejos de mi intención de desanimar a ninguno de los pocos que contribuyen, así que si en algo te he ofendido, me disculpo en lo posible. Un saludo. -- Jose Luis Domingo Lopez Linux Registered User #189436, Linux Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS (3.2.0-38-generic-pae) ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-ar] Límites
Muy bueno!
Que feriado productivo!
Para que vean cómo avanzó ayer el relation del admin_level=2 de Argentina:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/286393
http://tareas.openstreetmaps.com.ar/job/7
El render propio ya lo tenemos, solo que por ahora renderea igual que
OSM.org, si tienen algun pedido para renderear algún tag avisenme por
esta lista o postéenlo.
Mañana actualizo el postgis con el .osm.bz2 de Geofabrik actualizado con
lo de ayer.
Por cierto, si quieren meter el TMS nuestro en JOSM tienen que ir a Edit
- Preferences - TMS / WMS - + TMS y poner el siguiente url schema:
tms[18]:http://tiles.openstreetmaps.com.ar/mapnik/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png
On 20/02/13 20:33, Horacio Castellaro wrote:
Hola. Ya está subido el límite del mar territorial, que es el que
tienen casi todos los países en OSM. Por supuesto, sólo subí el límite
de la porción continental americana. Quedaría pendiente el mar
territorial argentino que rodea a Malvinas, las otras islas del
atlántico Sur, y el mar entorno a la Antártida Argentina.
También se podría subir la Zona económica exclusiva y el límite de la
plataforma, pero no sé que opinan.
Bueno, seguramente todo esto vamos a poder incluirlo cuando tengamos
nuestro propio render (o como se llame).
Con respecto a las líneas de costa, que anteriormente formaban parte
del límite del territorio argentino, ahora sólo conforman las
relaciones de las provincias correspondientes. Esto mismo sucede en
todos los países que pude ver.
Abrazo!
--
*Horacio José Castellaro*
Geógrafo
Celular: (54 9 11) 6584-5633
Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires.
República Argentina.
El 20 de febrero de 2013 01:03, Horacio Castellaro
castell...@gmail.com mailto:castell...@gmail.com escribió:
Hola. Yo tengo digitalizado los límites del mar territorial a
partir de un atlas escolar del IGN. LO estuve tratando de subir,
pero no me funciona el JOSMno descarga los datos.
--
*Horacio José Castellaro*
Geógrafo
Celular: (54 9 11) 6584-5633 tel:%2854%209%2011%29%206584-5633
Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires.
República Argentina.
El 19 de febrero de 2013 22:41, Facundo Suárez
facu...@svarez.com.ar mailto:facu...@svarez.com.ar escribió:
Yo estuve viendo algo de los limites. Iré haciendo a medida
que pueda
y como dije en el mismo post, me hago siempre referencia al
mapa de
arg500k. Estoy medio retirado ultimamente por razones
laborales mas
que nada, pero ya volveremos...
El día 19 de febrero de 2013 17:05, Gonzalo Gabriel Pérez
zalit...@gmail.com mailto:zalit...@gmail.com escribió:
Límites:
Ya que estamos con el tema de límites y que incluso hay un
post (
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=19672 )
sobre el mismo...
¿qué opinan acerca de que subamos los maritimos?
Hasta contar con datos de origen nacional podríamos tomar
como base estas
fuentes:
http://www.marineregions.org/downloads.php
http://gcmd.nasa.gov/records/GCMD_MRJBoundary_CD.html
De última no tocamos la parte en litigio con los ingleses,
pero al menos
tendríamos mucho mejor la línea que serpentea feo por
nuestra costa.
Sobre Ulil:
Si bien hay que tener en cuenta que Ulil ya tiene un
prontuario importante,
las últimas ediciones que hizo no estan mal (excepto lo de
las sendas
peatonales que no las encontré). En todo caso como dijo
Werner, no aportan
mucho más que lo que ya estaba.
En algunos países europeos las líneas ferroviarias están
dibujadas al
detalle y eso es algo que tal vez a algunos colaboradores no
les interesa
demasiado, pero que a los que nos interesa el mundo
ferroviario y su
historia si.
Me parece muy sensato que cuidemos al editar de no poner una
cantidad
excesiva de nodos y tags por ejemplo, por una cuestión de
performance, pero
tampoco me parece bien que nos limitemos a dibujar lo mínimo
mientras en
Europa y EEUU están de fiesta subiendo datos masivamente.
Podemos llegar a
un equilibrio editando con algo de sentido común.
Si veo alguna macana de este muchacho la reviso, y si se va
de mambo aviso.
Saludos!
___
Talk-ar mailing list
Talk-ar@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-ar@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ar
Re: [Talk-ar] Límites
Yo considero que cada pais tiene que cargar su EEZ reclamado, total
técnicamente no son excluyentes (en OSM) y se pueden solapar, y donde
suceda tal cosa, implica conflicto (*), luego podemos renderear a gusto
en osm.ar
* = quizá podamos tagear las partes en conflicto con
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/reclaimed = yes , o conflict=yes ?
Fernando.
On 21/02/13 11:51, Horacio Castellaro wrote:
Hola! Inventemos un tag para colocar nuestro mar territorial completo,
así lo rendereamos nosotros, pero queda almacenado en OSM.
Alguien tiene experiencia en eso?
Abrazo!
--
*Horacio José Castellaro*
Geógrafo
Celular: (54 9 11) 6584-5633
Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires.
República Argentina.
El 21 de febrero de 2013 11:49, Fernando cor...@fernando.com.ar
mailto:cor...@fernando.com.ar escribió:
Muy bueno!
Que feriado productivo!
Para que vean cómo avanzó ayer el relation del admin_level=2 de
Argentina:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/286393
http://tareas.openstreetmaps.com.ar/job/7
El render propio ya lo tenemos, solo que por ahora renderea igual
que OSM.org, si tienen algun pedido para renderear algún tag
avisenme por esta lista o postéenlo.
Mañana actualizo el postgis con el .osm.bz2 de Geofabrik
actualizado con lo de ayer.
Por cierto, si quieren meter el TMS nuestro en JOSM tienen que ir
a Edit - Preferences - TMS / WMS - + TMS y poner el siguiente
url schema:
tms[18]:http://tiles.openstreetmaps.com.ar/mapnik/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png
On 20/02/13 20:33, Horacio Castellaro wrote:
Hola. Ya está subido el límite del mar territorial, que es el que
tienen casi todos los países en OSM. Por supuesto, sólo subí el
límite de la porción continental americana. Quedaría pendiente el
mar territorial argentino que rodea a Malvinas, las otras islas
del atlántico Sur, y el mar entorno a la Antártida Argentina.
También se podría subir la Zona económica exclusiva y el límite
de la plataforma, pero no sé que opinan.
Bueno, seguramente todo esto vamos a poder incluirlo cuando
tengamos nuestro propio render (o como se llame).
Con respecto a las líneas de costa, que anteriormente formaban
parte del límite del territorio argentino, ahora sólo conforman
las relaciones de las provincias correspondientes. Esto mismo
sucede en todos los países que pude ver.
Abrazo!
--
*Horacio José Castellaro*
Geógrafo
Celular: (54 9 11) 6584-5633
Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires.
República Argentina.
El 20 de febrero de 2013 01:03, Horacio Castellaro
castell...@gmail.com mailto:castell...@gmail.com escribió:
Hola. Yo tengo digitalizado los límites del mar territorial a
partir de un atlas escolar del IGN. LO estuve tratando de
subir, pero no me funciona el JOSMno descarga los datos.
--
*Horacio José Castellaro*
Geógrafo
Celular: (54 9 11) 6584-5633 tel:%2854%209%2011%29%206584-5633
Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires.
República Argentina.
El 19 de febrero de 2013 22:41, Facundo Suárez
facu...@svarez.com.ar mailto:facu...@svarez.com.ar escribió:
Yo estuve viendo algo de los limites. Iré haciendo a
medida que pueda
y como dije en el mismo post, me hago siempre referencia
al mapa de
arg500k. Estoy medio retirado ultimamente por razones
laborales mas
que nada, pero ya volveremos...
El día 19 de febrero de 2013 17:05, Gonzalo Gabriel Pérez
zalit...@gmail.com mailto:zalit...@gmail.com escribió:
Límites:
Ya que estamos con el tema de límites y que incluso hay
un post (
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=19672 )
sobre el mismo...
¿qué opinan acerca de que subamos los maritimos?
Hasta contar con datos de origen nacional podríamos
tomar como base estas
fuentes:
http://www.marineregions.org/downloads.php
http://gcmd.nasa.gov/records/GCMD_MRJBoundary_CD.html
De última no tocamos la parte en litigio con los
ingleses, pero al menos
tendríamos mucho mejor la línea que serpentea feo por
nuestra costa.
Sobre Ulil:
Si bien hay que tener en cuenta que Ulil ya tiene un
prontuario importante,
las últimas ediciones que hizo no estan mal (excepto lo
de las sendas
[Talk-ca] Tracé de parcours pour une course?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Bonjour, J'aimerais fournir les cartes pour les parcours de course d'une activité organisée dans mon quartier, à l'aide d'OSM. Nous avons 5 parcours (1,2,5,10 km). Quel outil me permettrait de montrer ces parcours en ligne, en les incluant sur une page web? J'aimerais bien offrir aussi les GPX ou autres fichiers pour ceux qui voudraient les intégrer à leur GPS/téléphone. Voici un outil OSM que j'ai trouvé: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Show_Your_Journey Si vous en connaissez d'autres j'aimerais bien savoir lesquels. Merci pour toute information, Fabian - -- Fabian Rodriguez http://openstreetmap.magicfab.ca -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: PGP/Mime available upon request Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlEm1EoACgkQfUcTXFrypNVOiQCglErteKMYjJvAoN3vbiljQQs8 JA8AoO69W5GjkqcWHDBjY1Dz8Ji1Cex6 =F/Fr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Tracé de parcours pour une course?
Fabian, maybe I'm misunderstanding what exactly you're looking for, but why don't you use a service like http://www.GPSies.com to create the routes and then embed the maps on the web page? GPSies offers several OSM-based map layers (with MapQuest as the default). If you already have gpx files for the routes, you could also use openlayers: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Openlayers_Track_example A+, Harald. 2013/2/21 Fabian Rodriguez magic...@member.fsf.org: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Bonjour, J'aimerais fournir les cartes pour les parcours de course d'une activité organisée dans mon quartier, à l'aide d'OSM. Nous avons 5 parcours (1,2,5,10 km). Quel outil me permettrait de montrer ces parcours en ligne, en les incluant sur une page web? J'aimerais bien offrir aussi les GPX ou autres fichiers pour ceux qui voudraient les intégrer à leur GPS/téléphone. Voici un outil OSM que j'ai trouvé: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Show_Your_Journey Si vous en connaissez d'autres j'aimerais bien savoir lesquels. Merci pour toute information, Fabian - -- Fabian Rodriguez http://openstreetmap.magicfab.ca -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: PGP/Mime available upon request Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlEm1EoACgkQfUcTXFrypNVOiQCglErteKMYjJvAoN3vbiljQQs8 JA8AoO69W5GjkqcWHDBjY1Dz8Ji1Cex6 =F/Fr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca -- Please use encrypted communication whenever possible! Key-ID: 0x34cb93972f186565 ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Vers une mise à disposition d'un rendu FR (était: osm13 est opérationnel !)
Pour le drapeau sur les mairies, je trouve aussi qu'il n'est pas parlant, d'où le ticket que j'avais ouvert, demandant que ce soit le drapeau du pays concerné qui apparaisse et ce, sur les mairies, préfectures, ambassades, ... Pour les logos de La Poste et de la SNCF, n'y a-t-il aucun problème à les utiliser ? Certains peuvent être très pointilleux (pour ne pas dire 'chiants... Non, je ne l'ai pas dit !) sur l'usage possible de leur logo. Francescu Le 21 février 2013 08:55, Jo. perche...@gmail.com a écrit : Le 21 février 2013 00:01, PierreV belett...@hotmail.fr a écrit : Sinon j'ai trouvé un double nom pas loin de chez moi: http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=14lat=46.68232lon=-0.39861layers=B0 Pour le double nom Hérisson, il y a un nom donné à la zone résidentielle. Ça peut en être la cause. D'ailleurs quelle est la recommandation d'édition concernant les nom de zone ? Faut il les mettre ou pas ? Il y a également une aire sans nom ni tag autour de la mairie, ce serait à contrôler. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Cordialement, Francescu GAROBY ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Vers une mise à disposition d'un rendu FR (était: osm13 est opérationnel !)
Dans mon coin il y a un truc qui ne va pas au niveau des gares sncf. Si l'on regarde la carte générale, on voit le logo SNCF sur une micro gare : celle de Carnot à St Etienne (http://osm.org/go/0ApGrGcSr--). (il faut dire qu'à st etienne il y a pas moins de 4 gares sncf). Mais aucun tag sur la gare principale, celle de Chateaucreux ( http://osm.org/go/0ApMAbF0v--), ni non plus d'autres importantes, comme celle de Saint Chamond (http://osm.org/go/0ApObXVso--). À Lyon, la gare de Part Dieu n'apparait qu'au zoom 16 http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=16lat=45.75968lon=4.86163layers=B0alors que d'autres nettement moins importantes apparaissent dès le zoom 13 ( http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=13lat=45.75884lon=4.8345layers=B0) Pour l'organisation du SOTM ça risque de pas franchement être pratique pour ceux qui s'y rendent, que de rechercher un train PARIS-GARE DE LA GORGE DU LOUP (à Lyon) en ignorant l'existence de la la gare de la Part Dieu :-) Problème de rendu, ou de base ? No know... Le 21 février 2013 08:55, Jo. perche...@gmail.com a écrit : Le 21 février 2013 00:01, PierreV belett...@hotmail.fr a écrit : Sinon j'ai trouvé un double nom pas loin de chez moi: http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=14lat=46.68232lon=-0.39861layers=B0 Pour le double nom Hérisson, il y a un nom donné à la zone résidentielle. Ça peut en être la cause. D'ailleurs quelle est la recommandation d'édition concernant les nom de zone ? Faut il les mettre ou pas ? Il y a également une aire sans nom ni tag autour de la mairie, ce serait à contrôler. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Les dérives de rue : Des textes à promenades http://drivrsdu.fr/des-textes-a-promenades/ ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Vers une mise à disposition d'un rendu FR (était: osm13 est opérationnel !)
Pardon, j'ai oublié d'indiquer de quel ticket je parlais. C'est celui-ci : http://trac.openstreetmap.fr/ticket/236 Francescu Le 21 février 2013 09:25, Francescu GAROBY windu...@gmail.com a écrit : Pour le drapeau sur les mairies, je trouve aussi qu'il n'est pas parlant, d'où le ticket que j'avais ouvert, demandant que ce soit le drapeau du pays concerné qui apparaisse et ce, sur les mairies, préfectures, ambassades, ... Pour les logos de La Poste et de la SNCF, n'y a-t-il aucun problème à les utiliser ? Certains peuvent être très pointilleux (pour ne pas dire 'chiants... Non, je ne l'ai pas dit !) sur l'usage possible de leur logo. Francescu Le 21 février 2013 08:55, Jo. perche...@gmail.com a écrit : Le 21 février 2013 00:01, PierreV belett...@hotmail.fr a écrit : Sinon j'ai trouvé un double nom pas loin de chez moi: http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=14lat=46.68232lon=-0.39861layers=B0 Pour le double nom Hérisson, il y a un nom donné à la zone résidentielle. Ça peut en être la cause. D'ailleurs quelle est la recommandation d'édition concernant les nom de zone ? Faut il les mettre ou pas ? Il y a également une aire sans nom ni tag autour de la mairie, ce serait à contrôler. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Cordialement, Francescu GAROBY -- Cordialement, Francescu GAROBY ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Vers une mise à disposition d'un rendu FR (était: osm13 est opérationnel !)
Et moi j'ai oublié de mettre le lien vers la carte générale stéphanoise qui montre le problème de la distribution des logos sncf : http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=12lat=45.44577lon=4.42526layers=B0 Le seul logo SNCF qu'on voit est une gare complètement secondaire, et il y a deux gares importante (st etienne chateaucreux et st chamond) qui n'ont pas de logo. Sans compter un peu plus loin, celle de Lyon Part Dieu qui n'a pas de logo non plus à ce niveau de zoom. Cordialement, je pense que j'ai fini cette fois ci. Le 21 février 2013 09:26, Francescu GAROBY windu...@gmail.com a écrit : Pardon, j'ai oublié d'indiquer de quel ticket je parlais. C'est celui-ci : http://trac.openstreetmap.fr/ticket/236 Francescu Le 21 février 2013 09:25, Francescu GAROBY windu...@gmail.com a écrit : Pour le drapeau sur les mairies, je trouve aussi qu'il n'est pas parlant, d'où le ticket que j'avais ouvert, demandant que ce soit le drapeau du pays concerné qui apparaisse et ce, sur les mairies, préfectures, ambassades, ... Pour les logos de La Poste et de la SNCF, n'y a-t-il aucun problème à les utiliser ? Certains peuvent être très pointilleux (pour ne pas dire 'chiants... Non, je ne l'ai pas dit !) sur l'usage possible de leur logo. Francescu Le 21 février 2013 08:55, Jo. perche...@gmail.com a écrit : Le 21 février 2013 00:01, PierreV belett...@hotmail.fr a écrit : Sinon j'ai trouvé un double nom pas loin de chez moi: http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=14lat=46.68232lon=-0.39861layers=B0 Pour le double nom Hérisson, il y a un nom donné à la zone résidentielle. Ça peut en être la cause. D'ailleurs quelle est la recommandation d'édition concernant les nom de zone ? Faut il les mettre ou pas ? Il y a également une aire sans nom ni tag autour de la mairie, ce serait à contrôler. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Cordialement, Francescu GAROBY -- Cordialement, Francescu GAROBY ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Les dérives de rue : Des textes à promenades http://drivrsdu.fr/des-textes-a-promenades/ ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Vers une mise à disposition d'un rendu FR (était: osm13 est opérationnel !)
ARG NON Je crois que j'aurais mieux fait de ne rien faire aujourd'hui ! La gare qu'on voit celle de la terrasse, encore plus microscopique que celle de Carnot ! Encore plus étrange, on la voit au niveau de zoom 12 http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=12lat=45.4lon=4.4036layers=B0mais plus au 13 http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=13lat=45.43887lon=4.41775layers=B0 . Encore plus fort, le logo semble placer sur une passerelle, et non sur le batiment ? http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=19lat=45.4645lon=4.37998layers=B0 Et voici donc cette fantastique gare de La Terrase, plus importante donc que celle de Lyon part dieu : http://goo.gl/maps/xfPEx Et c'est promis je ne publie plus rien de la semaine maintenant ! Le 21 février 2013 09:32, Ista Pouss ista...@gmail.com a écrit : Et moi j'ai oublié de mettre le lien vers la carte générale stéphanoise qui montre le problème de la distribution des logos sncf : http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=12lat=45.44577lon=4.42526layers=B0 Le seul logo SNCF qu'on voit est une gare complètement secondaire, et il y a deux gares importante (st etienne chateaucreux et st chamond) qui n'ont pas de logo. Sans compter un peu plus loin, celle de Lyon Part Dieu qui n'a pas de logo non plus à ce niveau de zoom. Cordialement, je pense que j'ai fini cette fois ci. Le 21 février 2013 09:26, Francescu GAROBY windu...@gmail.com a écrit : Pardon, j'ai oublié d'indiquer de quel ticket je parlais. C'est celui-ci : http://trac.openstreetmap.fr/ticket/236 Francescu Le 21 février 2013 09:25, Francescu GAROBY windu...@gmail.com a écrit : Pour le drapeau sur les mairies, je trouve aussi qu'il n'est pas parlant, d'où le ticket que j'avais ouvert, demandant que ce soit le drapeau du pays concerné qui apparaisse et ce, sur les mairies, préfectures, ambassades, ... Pour les logos de La Poste et de la SNCF, n'y a-t-il aucun problème à les utiliser ? Certains peuvent être très pointilleux (pour ne pas dire 'chiants... Non, je ne l'ai pas dit !) sur l'usage possible de leur logo. Francescu Le 21 février 2013 08:55, Jo. perche...@gmail.com a écrit : Le 21 février 2013 00:01, PierreV belett...@hotmail.fr a écrit : Sinon j'ai trouvé un double nom pas loin de chez moi: http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=14lat=46.68232lon=-0.39861layers=B0 Pour le double nom Hérisson, il y a un nom donné à la zone résidentielle. Ça peut en être la cause. D'ailleurs quelle est la recommandation d'édition concernant les nom de zone ? Faut il les mettre ou pas ? Il y a également une aire sans nom ni tag autour de la mairie, ce serait à contrôler. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Cordialement, Francescu GAROBY -- Cordialement, Francescu GAROBY ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Les dérives de rue : Des textes à promenades http://drivrsdu.fr/des-textes-a-promenades/ -- Les dérives de rue : Des textes à promenades http://drivrsdu.fr/des-textes-a-promenades/ ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Vers une mise à disposition d'un rendu FR (était: osm13 est opérationnel !)
Bonjour, Chez moi, j'ai résolu ce manque en ajoutant operator=SNCF. Cedric Le 21/02/2013 09:32, Ista Pouss a écrit : Et moi j'ai oublié de mettre le lien vers la carte générale stéphanoise qui montre le problème de la distribution des logos sncf : http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=12lat=45.44577lon=4.42526layers=B0 Le seul logo SNCF qu'on voit est une gare complètement secondaire, et il y a deux gares importante (st etienne chateaucreux et st chamond) qui n'ont pas de logo. Sans compter un peu plus loin, celle de Lyon Part Dieu qui n'a pas de logo non plus à ce niveau de zoom. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
2013/2/20 Balaitous balait...@mailoo.org: Pour ce qui est du risque juridique, si j'ai bien compris, OSM a demandé à la FFRP l'autorisation, mais n'a pas reçu de réponse. Donc la FFRP est parfaitement au courant et a choisi de laisser faire. OSM est toujours a temps de retirer les relations en question en cas de demande explicite de la FFRP. Dans ce genre de cas, l'absence de réponse ne vaut pas accord. Et il faudrait ensuite expliquer notre différence de traitement à ceux qui contribuent à partir d'images google ou de cartes IGN qu'il faut effacer leurs contributions à eux mais pas celles de la FFRP. Alors que dans tous les cas, il s'agit de sources dont nous n'avons pas reçu d'autorisation. wikipedia publie les itinéraires de manières suffisamment détaillée pour pouvoir les recréer sur une carte. Quelqu'un sait-il s'ils ont eu des débats à ce sujet ? ont-ils une autorisation pour cela ? Wikipedia contient aussi de nombreux points géoréférencés sur des cartes google. C'est pourquoi OSM n'a jamais importé les POI géoréférencés chez-eux. Le problème des droits liés aux données géographiques n'a jamais été leur tasse de thé. Et c'est aussi pourquoi ils comptent sur nous pour être irréprochables de ce côté-là. Wikipedia est aussi un produit final, libre et gratuit. Alors qu'OSM n'est qu'une base de données, utilisable par une multitudes d'applications, gratuites ou commerciales, qui pourraient entrer en concurrence directe avec les produits de la FFRP. Pieren ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Vers une mise à disposition d'un rendu FR (était: osm13 est opérationnel !)
Le 21 février 2013 00:01, PierreV belett...@hotmail.fr a écrit : Génial ce nouveau rendu! Désolé si je fait trop de commentaires, mais autant en profiter de faire un rendu qui soit adapté aux Français! Au zoom 14 les noms des hammeaux et lieux dits apparait... est-ce que c'est possible d'y différencier le ou les bourgs principaux avec une police non italique ou en gras? comme pour le zoom 15? http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=14lat=46.43702lon=-0.28113layers=B0 Je n'ai pas encore trop faire de tuning de ces niveaux... je remonte petit à petit. Sinon j'ai trouvé un double nom pas loin de chez moi: http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=14lat=46.68232lon=-0.39861layers=B0 Ah oui... on a un landuse=residential + un place=village pour un gros hameau. Bien sûr pas de relation entre eux, donc pas d'admin_centre pour me permettre d'éliminer les noms liés. En fait, le place=village devrait basculer sur le landuse, ça serait plus logique et du coup on aurait un seul nom ;) Pour la baguette est-il possible de la mettre a 45° et/ou un chouilla plus gros? car a plat ca fait une sorte de trait. J'y pense, j'y pense... je vais la refaire. Je ne suis pas graphiste, je bricole au mieux Tu rajoute un ticket ? - http://trac.openstreetmap.fr/ C'est génial de mettre en avant les gares, la poste, les pharmacies, les hopitaux pour des zoom plus gros. Le drapeau pour la mairie est une bonne idée, mais la première fois que je l'ai vu, je me demandais ce que ca représentait? donc un texte mairie est peut etre a accompagner? En plus au zoom 15 il disparait, alors qu'il apparait dès le 14: http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=15lat=46.31886lon=-0.58659layers=B0 Et meme au zoom 14 quand un nom est par dessus il n'apparait pas exemple pour Niort alors qu'on oit bien les mairies annexes: http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=14lat=46.32597lon=-0.45319layers=B0 C'est tout le problème du fonctionnement par couche de Mapnik et de la gestion de proximité des objets à dessiner. Je pense qu'au zoom 15, le drapeau est trop proche d'un autre texte déjà présent et donc il a sauté. Il faut que je trouve un moyen de gérer un peu mieux les priorités dans les requêtes SQL sinon ça oblige à faire des requêtes SQL séparées ce qui charge évidemment plus le serveur pour calculer les tuiles. Je découvre petit à petit les interactions entre mapnik et postgis... Pour les Temples Protestant serait-il possible de les faire apparaître avec une croix voire même avec une croix huguenote plutôt qu'avec un carré? http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=19lat=46.32314lon=-0.46065layers=B0 Oui... un autre ticket ? Pour les églises (catho, protestants, ou autres), campings, et offices de tourismes est-il possible de les afficher dès le zoom 15 comme pour les hopitaux? Ce sont des points de repère que l'on donne assez souvent pour des personnes qui ne connaissent pas une ville... Ticket ? Il faut dire que j'ai surtout testé en milieu urbain... très chargé. Autre proposition: je ne pense pas que c'est utile de les mettre sur le rendu osmfr, mais serait-il possible de rajouter des calques de pistes cyclables, transports en communs, et d'altimétrie que l'on cocherais pour activer en transparence par dessus le rendu osmfr? Je suis plutôt partant pour des calques transparents complémentaires légers de ce type. J'avais même pense à gérer les petits logos comme. Dernière idée, il n'est pas possible de mettre sur http://tile.openstreetmap.fr un calque bing, mais si l'auteur de francetopo le veut bien, on peut éventuellement mettre un calque francetopo voire même peut etre un rendu 3Liz ou un autre rendu fait par des français? Francetopo est (me semble-t-il) en Lambert 93... ça va pas coller très bien sur du Google Mercator. Je suis d'accord sur le principe de répertorier différents et pouvoir switcher facilement de l'un à l'autre car ça me semble utile pour les faire découvrir et montrer la diversité des usages des données OSM en terme de rendu... sans parler des autres usages. Le 21 février 2013 00:09, Frank Villaro-Dixon fr...@villaro-dixon.eu a écrit : À Genève, avec toutes les missions et consulats, ce drapeau fait penser à un consulat aussi. Ces drapeaux là sont bleus, non ? Ils proviennent du rendu par défaut. Les drapeaux gris je les ai ajouté pour les amenity=townhall uniquement. Le 21 février 2013 09:25, Francescu GAROBY windu...@gmail.com a écrit : Pour le drapeau sur les mairies, je trouve aussi qu'il n'est pas parlant, d'où le ticket que j'avais ouvert, demandant que ce soit le drapeau du pays concerné qui apparaisse et ce, sur les mairies, préfectures, ambassades, ... Ca va être nettement plus difficile à gérer... mais pas impossible non plus, juste besoin d'une requête spécifique un peu plus lente (remonter à l'admin 2)... et puis avoir une panoplie de petits logos des drapeaux. Pour les logos de La Poste et de la SNCF, n'y a-t-il aucun
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
Le 21 février 2013 11:25, Pieren pier...@gmail.com a écrit : 2013/2/20 Balaitous balait...@mailoo.org: Pour ce qui est du risque juridique, si j'ai bien compris, OSM a demandé à la FFRP l'autorisation, mais n'a pas reçu de réponse. Donc la FFRP est parfaitement au courant et a choisi de laisser faire. OSM est toujours a temps de retirer les relations en question en cas de demande explicite de la FFRP. Dans ce genre de cas, l'absence de réponse ne vaut pas accord. Et il faudrait ensuite expliquer notre différence de traitement à ceux qui contribuent à partir d'images google ou de cartes IGN qu'il faut effacer leurs contributions à eux mais pas celles de la FFRP. Alors que dans tous les cas, il s'agit de sources dont nous n'avons pas reçu d'autorisation. Je ne suis pas d'accord, la FFRP n'est pas une source sauf si, bien sûr, on recopie à partir du contenu d'un topoguide FFRP ce qui n'est pas le sujet ici, mais bien ce qu'on constate factuellement sur le terrain où ce dont on a connaissance (le GR/Chemin de Compostelle qui passait devant ma maison !). Il faut se méfier des analogies un peu rapides. -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France Week-end SOTM-FR à Lyon, les 23-24 février prochains: http://openstreetmap.fr/sotmfr2013 ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
2013/2/21 Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr: Il faut se méfier des analogies un peu rapides. C'est une analogie dans le sens que c'est le même droit d'auteur qui protège ces sources. Pieren ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
