Re: [Talk-us] Fall Editathon Seattle Edition
Battlegrid rules. Looking forward to seeing a clean area in the Seattle-Tacoma corridor! On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 4:49 AM, Kathleen Danielson kathleen.daniel...@gmail.com wrote: Mele, That resource page is awesome! We should definitely put that into our toolkit to help future editathon organizers! DC's Editathon is happening later today! KD On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 9:23 PM, Melelani Sax-Barnett saxb...@gmail.comwrote: Things went well in PDX too-- we had about 14 people who came and went throughout the day. Lots of newbies too! I did forget to take pictures though-- oops. Feel free to use/fork our resources page and slides here: http://pdxmele.com/editathon Repo: https://github.com/pdxmele/editathon Good luck to the other meetups this weekend! My best, Mele On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Good to hear you've been having a good time! Re: battlegrid: you're most welcome! I've shown it to the folks present at the SLC Editathon today, and everyone found it useful. Please don't hesitate to send any feedback or suggestions this way. We had a really good time here in Salt Lake. The turnout was good by our standards (5 people, 2 new). We did not accomplish a lot of mapping but we did discuss a potential Utah address points import extensively. Also, because we all agreed this is a pleasant way to spend a Saturday afternoon, we are introducing a new monthly event, the Saturday Mapternoon! If you're in the area, check us out: http://www.meetup.com/osmutah/ On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: We had a great first day of map hacking in Seattle. I'd like to especially thank Martijn van Exel for creating maproulette.org/battlegrid. Our group is attacking the misaligned roads in Washington State using Battlegrid. For those that haven't used battlegrid, it is a visual tool to find difference between OSM roads and current Tiger data. We are finding that the Tiger data is better than OSM, especially in rural/outstate locations. But Tiger data isn't perfect either. Hopefully down the road, the US Census Bureau can use our data to improve their data. I would also like to thank Tableau Software for hosting this weekend. -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 OpenStreetMap: Mapping with a Human Touch osm: Open Historical Map (OHM)http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Historical_Map / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] OSM and ISTE (k12 edtech conf)
Any OSM'ers headed to ISTE next week in San Antonio? I'll be there for my day job, but would love to meet up with any peeps interested in extending any of the SotM US and other ed discussions. Thanks, Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 OpenStreetMap: Mapping with a Human Touch http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Open Historical Map (OHM)http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Historical_Map / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] [Design] Banners on the Front Page
Richard's ideas make sense and are forward looking. I'm not sure there's value in bantering around precedence in this case. On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote: [wider issue, so cc:ing talk@] On 22/03/2013 15:32, Shaun McDonald wrote: On 22 Mar 2013, at 14:06, Harry Wood m...@harrywood.co.uk wrote: ...we have a strip down the left, and this screen real-estate is valuable space. Here more than anywhere users are eyeballing the graphics, text, and user interface elements we choose to put there. We have in the past chosen to put graphical banner ads promoting State Of The Map conferences and some other events, in the run up to these events. How about a rotating banner that rotates round showing all of the upcoming SOTMs? This would then minimise the vertical space needed. Actually, this is a great opportunity to devolve local marketing to local chapters. Let's call it the message space. Allow local chapters to choose what marketing message goes in that space for their country (subject to certain criteria, i.e. must promote OSM, mustn't give advantage to one commercial provider over another, mustn't look dog-ugly). Use GeoIP etc. to find what country the user is from. Serve the message for that country. So, to take this example, OSM-US decides its priority is promoting SOTM-US. It puts the banner there. US visitors therefore see it. Ideal solution for US visitors. Also ideal for Bulgarians who don't really want to know about a conference in SF; they have their own priorities. The beauty is that it doesn't have to be restricted to conferences. Let's say the French community has a project to map shops. Fine: they put a little banner there which clicks through to the project page. Or let's say the US community wants to focus on addressing. Same again. Of course, OSMF could still override for international messages (like the main SOTM conference), though it would be polite to give a couple of weeks' notice to the local chapters. Our local presence and local knowledge is our strength. Let's make the most of it. Richard __**_ design mailing list des...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/designhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/design -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 OpenStreetMap: Mapping with a Human Touch http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Open Historical Map (OHM)http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Historical_Map / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Reminder: February Historical OSM Hangout
Hello all - Just a reminder, we'll be having a Google Hangout (yes...) for Historical OSM tomorrow morning at 9am PT. Here's the link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/amVmZkBnd2hhdC5vcmc.h3tvknqiijv8d9pqi1fpeuo3bk On the agenda: - Topomancy's procurement of server hardware - Updates from historical projects, including the Munnin Project, among others - Need for wiki updates - Plans for setting up a non-profit to support this Looking forward to seeing you there tomorrow, Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] Civil War Mapping
For those who aren't familiar, there's more info about Historical OSM at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM and here: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/historic and we've just set up: irc: #hosm on freenode.net - Jeff On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org wrote: This is exactly the kind of stuff we'd love to have in the Historical OSM setup, which is close to being ready for playing around with. Looking forward to more updates! - Jeff On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: On 2/21/13 7:49 PM, Adam Schreiber wrote: Richard, I hope you enjoy the area. I've already done a bit of mapping at the Fredericksburg and Spotsylvania battlefields. i look forward to it. is there any particular mapping task i should look for at Spotsylvania? richard __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Civil War Mapping
And... I almost forgot - we're having a monthly hangout at 9am PT on the 27th: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/amVmZkBnd2hhdC5vcmc.h3tvknqiijv8d9pqi1fpeuo3bk Please join us! Thanks, Jeff On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org wrote: For those who aren't familiar, there's more info about Historical OSM at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM and here: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/historic and we've just set up: irc: #hosm on freenode.net - Jeff On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org wrote: This is exactly the kind of stuff we'd love to have in the Historical OSM setup, which is close to being ready for playing around with. Looking forward to more updates! - Jeff On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: On 2/21/13 7:49 PM, Adam Schreiber wrote: Richard, I hope you enjoy the area. I've already done a bit of mapping at the Fredericksburg and Spotsylvania battlefields. i look forward to it. is there any particular mapping task i should look for at Spotsylvania? richard __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] OSM US Server Infrastructure
+1 - great idea, Paul! On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 4:58 PM, stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote: Yes, I agree, Paul: us-only taginfo hosting would be excellent. -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Civil War Mapping
This is exactly the kind of stuff we'd love to have in the Historical OSM setup, which is close to being ready for playing around with. Looking forward to more updates! - Jeff On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: On 2/21/13 7:49 PM, Adam Schreiber wrote: Richard, I hope you enjoy the area. I've already done a bit of mapping at the Fredericksburg and Spotsylvania battlefields. i look forward to it. is there any particular mapping task i should look for at Spotsylvania? richard __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] Paweł's q: what can be done?
To answer your first question, I do. Others have voiced the same opinion - they'd like to see some organization, to know that their efforts are being applied for the most benefit. Your voice is noted, but there should be room for disagreement, no? One of the goals of a strategic exercise would be to test your thesis whether OSM's (and the OSMF's) damn good job so far, is damn good enough to continue to survive and thrive. The thesis that an organizing board reduces a community of thousands to the views of a handful seems contrary to what has gone on with many other successful OS projects. On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 12:57 AM, Robin Paulson ro...@bumblepuppy.orgwrote: On 2013-02-03 07:41, Jeff Meyer wrote: was: geocoding trademark thread I think Paweł has hit on a key question: does the OSMF have plans to operate and lead OSM in a more efficient, organized manner or not? what makes you think anyone wants to be lead, i certainly don't? or wants to be organised from above? we're all fully functional human beings, perfectly capable of organising ourselves, and doing a damn good job so far - look at where OSM and most other digital commons projects have got through self-organising. i disagree with any idea of a board, i think it's utterly wrong, it reduces a community of thousands to the views a handful of people can put across. -- robin http://**universitywithoutconditions.**ac.nzhttp://universitywithoutconditions.ac.nz- Auckland's Free University __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Paweł's q: what can be done?
was: geocoding trademark thread I think Paweł has hit on a key question: does the OSMF have plans to operate and lead OSM in a more efficient, organized manner or not? And, to an even more relevant issue: how many people like Paweł show up on the doorstep and don't bother engaging for the same reasons he mentions? There's a group working in parallel to put together a strategic plan, in the absence of one, but doing this without leadership and support from the top can be problematic. And, no, saying, That's great, go for it, isn't really support. I hope Paweł doesn't leave, but I cannot blame him for feeling the way he feels. His points are on target. Are there any plans in place for OSMF to address these types of questions by SotM 2013? - Jeff -- Forwarded message -- From: Paweł Paprota ppa...@fastmail.fm Date: Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 4:25 AM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Recent edits in the wiki / Trademark issue To: talk@openstreetmap.org On 02/01/2013 08:54 PM, andrzej zaborowski wrote: I agree with what you're saying although I can't help thinking that if the OSMF can't take the risk of having some things in the wiki, the solution, for everyone's benefit, is to move the wiki to a server that's not paid for by the OSMF. I'm positive finding such a server wouldn't be difficult (in fact the home page says it is hosted at UCL ByteMark -- so if the OSMF is neither hosting nor writing the content, should it accept the C+D? The admins *are* OSMF members, but they're not OSMF). The OSMF has at some point started assuming responsibility for what is being published in the database and now on the wiki. In the case of the database it makes sense for someone to give some level of warranty that the data in it in fact is legally usable, although the consequences of this step have had a terrible effect on the map and the community so far. +100 Current situation is getting silly to the point that I'm seriously considering abandoning this project and leaving history tab, vector tiles and my other projects unfinished just to have peace of mind and work in a sane project with sane organization behind it like KDE. On one hand OSMF is telling us they don't want any strategic planning and involvement, on the other they are redacting and editing data and wiki. And this is possible mostly because what Andrzej said - that they host the servers (which I am personally grateful for - to the admins - no to people who use it for political bullshit like this). This is NOT how a project should work and you will only discourage people by doing such stunts. Either finally get your act together and prepare a proper organization like KDE e.v (http://ev.kde.org/) or get out of the project and leave it be. There is still plenty of energy that will fill the void after you (I'm talking to OSMF). Paweł -- Forwarded message -- From: Paweł Paprota ppa...@fastmail.fm Date: Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 5:55 AM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Recent edits in the wiki / Trademark issue To: Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org On 02/02/2013 02:38 PM, Ed Loach wrote: As far as I can see, OSMF Ltd is very like KDE ev; compare http://blog.osmfoundation.org/**about/http://blog.osmfoundation.org/about/ and http://ev.kde.org/whatiskdeev.**php http://ev.kde.org/whatiskdeev.php Legal status is the least of what I meant. Compare what OSMF does with this quarterly report from the KDE foundation: http://ev.kde.org/reports/ev-**quarterly-2012_Q3.pdfhttp://ev.kde.org/reports/ev-quarterly-2012_Q3.pdf Not only is all this stuff happening but they also have people who prepare such a nice quarterly report. Also note fund raising efforts, expenses and donations, partners, new members etc. This is an organization that actually supports the community in their efforts. And they are not evil in doing that. What can be done to steer OSMF into that direction? Can it be even done at this point? Paweł -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Paweł's q: what can be done?
On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Finally, I am somewhat puzzled by the connection that you (and also Jeff) seem to make between the perceived lack of planning and the current trademark issue that spawned the thread. I didn't make that connection actually thought they were separate topics, hence I separated the thread. I was more worried about a motivated developer (who had demonstrated his commitment with code) leaving the community because of a perceived absence of leadership than I was about the trademark thing. - Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recent edits in the wiki / Trademark issue
Team - The OSMF BoD is doing the job for which its members were elected. Thank goodness. There's a trademark. We've been served notice (I believe). The board has made a decision. The chairman of the board (probably a (tm) term...) has communicated this decision. Fine, disagree, but please disagree with a plan for how to fund your alternate plan, describing in detail the source of new funds or what other OSMF activities should be de-funded to support this plan. Yes, it sounds silly to trademark geocode, yes, it's a US-only thing, but these issues are solved in courts, with real money for real lawyers, not well-reasoned arguments on email threads supported by personal moral and ethical constructs and not law. Personally, I'm glad the OSMF BoD is taking care of this so I don't have to. As Mr. W said, I'd rather be mapping... - Jeff On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Manfred A. Reiter ma.rei...@gmail.comwrote: On 01/02/13 17:49, Richard Weait wrote: @andres / @cartinus, such a trade mark has been issued by USPTO http://weait.com/content/trade-mark Anyone who cares to pick up this fight with their money, is likely to be able to do so very simply. Oh, come on: Get up, stand up... and I shot the sheriff come to my mind. I always hear money. Is that really all that counts. Let us fight and win and not behave like the octopuses want us to. +1 This would be much better publicity than we can get by connecting our social community with main stream social media. +1 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] Join us for Mappy Hour
Sorry to have missed this! Alex, thanks for hosting it on YouTube - it was very helpful! - Jeff On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: Join us for Mappy Hour with Ian Dees on OpenStreetMap US community server resources right now. Original announcement: http://www.openstreetmap.us/2013/01/osm-us-servers/ Youtube broad cast: http://youtu.be/w0sF_jvbqtE Interactive hangout on Google plus: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/cc2eb0aa8016d3be3746a824c83bd1d254edf0ee?authuser=0hl=en I'll be also taking questions on talk-us (iandees and lxbarth). ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Seattle JOSM / Seattle Import / US Editathon (a day later) underway
On IRC at osm-us on irc.oftc.net 15 mappers here right now, pics on the way -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] Go Map!! is in the Apple app store
The line / way drawing capabilities of Go Map are quite cool.
On Saturday, January 26, 2013, Kevin Peat wrote:
On 25 Jan 2013 22:20, Apollinaris Schöll
ascho...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'ascho...@gmail.com');
wrote:
have used Vespucci until a year ago. At that time the user interface was
way to complicated. I know it has improved since but cant test anymore
without a Android device.
I've used Vespucci a fair bit recently on my Nexus 7. Works great for
adding POI's or simple tag changes but not the interface for anything too
complex.
Kevin
--
Jeff Meyer
Global World History Atlas
www.gwhat.org
j...@gwhat.org
206-676-2347
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical
OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM
/ my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer
t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory
f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] Go Map!! is in the Apple app store
The line / way drawing capabilities of Go Map are quite cool.
On Saturday, January 26, 2013, Kevin Peat wrote:
On 25 Jan 2013 22:20, Apollinaris Schöll
ascho...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'ascho...@gmail.com');
wrote:
have used Vespucci until a year ago. At that time the user interface was
way to complicated. I know it has improved since but cant test anymore
without a Android device.
I've used Vespucci a fair bit recently on my Nexus 7. Works great for
adding POI's or simple tag changes but not the interface for anything too
complex.
Kevin
--
Jeff Meyer
Global World History Atlas
www.gwhat.org
j...@gwhat.org
206-676-2347
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical
OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM
/ my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer
t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory
f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] piwik.openstreetmap.org - what is it?
Christian - My apologies! What would it take to add other sites? What other sites did you have in mind? I take it www.openstreetmap.org is out of the question, as we're already running one for that. Or, is yours set up in a way that's more generic / anonymous than the core piwik? - Jeff On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.frwrote: It is also sad not to get any request to add sites to our piwik instance at OSM-FR to start gathering global statistics as I offered to do almost 2 weeks ago... 2013/1/24 Jan Kučera kozuc...@gmail.com It is sad we are running software whose results no one can see... 2013/1/10 Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr 2013/1/10 Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu: On 10/01/13 10:56, Christian Quest wrote: One single piwik instance, and all sites who wants to participate to the study just embed the same global piwik.js on their site. All analytics are done by this single global piwik db. ... maybe I miss something, but that's a basic feature I expect from piwik: gather data from more than one single site. Somebody has to manage adding them all, and allocating site ID values for them and keeping those up to date as sites come and go. Not to mention that if sites want to use things like goals and custom variables then those also have to be configured by somebody. All of which is before we even think about questions of hardware scaling for such an endeavour. Ok... where's the problem ? No hardware to deal with that ? We (OSM-FR) have some and the admins to take of it... and if it looks useful to collect these global data, why not try to setup something ? -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France - http://openstreetmap.fr/u/cquest ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France - http://openstreetmap.fr/u/cquesthttp://openstreetmap.fr/u/christian-quest ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Go Map!! is in the Apple app store
I'd like to highly recommend a brand-new, native, and free* iOS OSM editor: Go Map!! https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=592990211mt=8 The author is a member of the Seattle OSM community, so I'm biased, but I think it rocks. Regards, Jeff * as in free beer! -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] Go Map!! is in the Apple app store
I'd like to highly recommend a brand-new, native, and free* iOS OSM editor: Go Map!! https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=592990211mt=8 The author is a member of the Seattle OSM community, so I'm biased, but I think it rocks. Regards, Jeff * as in free beer! -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[Talk-in] Go Map!! is in the Apple app store
I'd like to highly recommend a brand-new, native, and free* iOS OSM editor: Go Map!! https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=592990211mt=8 The author is a member of the Seattle OSM community, so I'm biased, but I think it rocks. Regards, Jeff * as in free beer! -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
[OSM-ja] Go Map!! is in the Apple app store
I'd like to highly recommend a brand-new, native, and free* iOS OSM editor: Go Map!! https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=592990211mt=8 The author is a member of the Seattle OSM community, so I'm biased, but I think it rocks. Regards, Jeff * as in free beer! -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
[Talk-us] Go Map!! is in the Apple app store
I'd like to highly recommend a brand-new, native, and free* iOS OSM editor: Go Map!! https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=592990211mt=8 The author is a member of the Seattle OSM community, so I'm biased, but I think it rocks. Regards, Jeff * as in free beer! -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License Working Group 2013
Would this be an appropriate forum to discuss whether or own slippy map requires our own copyright mark? The response to this question in a separate thread on this list has been vague and non-definitive. Thanks, Jeff On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote: The LWG will hold its first post-license change meeting provisionally Tuesday 22nd January at 18:00 GMT/UTC. I would like to draw your attention to the following: We'll be discussing our future role and any input on that, preferably to this list, is most welcome. We've started putting together a remit document here: https://docs.google.com/**document/d/1D3KwSM_**BO7KkcbVADQVVn7eFwkD-** RNauMwidhhlVPsI/pubhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1D3KwSM_BO7KkcbVADQVVn7eFwkD-RNauMwidhhlVPsI/pub We welcome new members and diverse views. If you are interested in opening up geospatial data and imagery for anyone to use, please join us. You can contact me at my email address if you want more details or you can join us for one meeting to see if you like it. If you cannot or do not want to join us long term but have a particular issue that is important to you and it is in the best interests of OSM, we can make it a project and you can join us for one meeting or a few weeks. In the UK, example projects might be freeing up postcodes or public right of way route definitions. Do you have important issues in your country? Are you an organisation that is finding OSM data difficult to use for legal reasons? Mike Michael Collinson Chair, License Working Group __**_ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/legal-talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] (c) statement on openstreetmap.org slippy map?
from http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright: For a browsable electronic map, the credit should appear in the corner of the map. For example: On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote: On 17.01.2013 08:56, Jeff Meyer wrote: If we require others to put (c) OpenStreetMap contributors on their tiles [...] We don't. Like ourselves, they can also put it elsewhere, as long as it's findable. For example behind a link labelled Copyright and License, or an about box in an app. At least that was my impression from previous discussions on that topic and that's how I do it on my own maps. It's also the only practical solution when you have more than one source and limited screen space. That there is no copyright information on the mobile version of osm.org *at all* is undesirable, though - I used to consider this a bug. Tobias ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] (c) statement on openstreetmap.org slippy map?
I agree - we should practice exactly what we're requiring others to do, which is adhere to the terms of our own license. I do not, however, agree that the URL makes it clear that the data comes from OpenStreetMap - for example, data shown on www.foo.co could easily be from www.bar.org. Again - look at the Bing maps example. Everyone probably thinks all the data comes from just Microsoft, but it's clearly marked (c) 2012 Nokia. Also, to the discussions about whether we should do stuff just because Google (or Microsoft) does them. In general, I'd say no. In the area of legal protection, where they probably have a full-time staff of trademark and copyright lawyers, I'd say yes. On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 17.01.2013 02:29, Jeff Meyer wrote: Should we be marking our own map at openstreetmap.org http://openstreetmap.org with the same markings we ask others to use? This has been discussed frequently in the past. It is not necessary, from a legal point of view, that we create such markings. (The license requires that you make it clear that the data comes from OpenStreetMap but if your URL is www.openstreetmap.org then that makes it clear enough.) Personally, I do think that it might make sense to put such markings on the map even though they are redundant, for the purpose of instruction - some people might look at our web page and think I'll simply do as they do, they'll know what is right. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 __**_ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/legal-talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] (c) statement on openstreetmap.org slippy map?
Where is it? I didn't see any copyright on osm.org.
On Wednesday, January 16, 2013, Paul Norman wrote:
There is a prominent copyright license link on the openstreetmap.orgpage
outlining the copyright information in detail.
osm.org is a bit of a unique case because all the content on the site is
openstreetmap data and the copyright information is content in its own
right.
** **
*From:* Jeff Meyer [mailto:j...@gwhat.org javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'j...@gwhat.org');]
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:30 PM
*To:* legal-talk@openstreetmap.org javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'legal-talk@openstreetmap.org');
*Subject:* [OSM-legal-talk] (c) statement on openstreetmap.org slippy map?
** **
Hi legal types -
** **
Should we be marking our own map at openstreetmap.org with the same
markings we ask others to use?
** **
My impression is that you're supposed to mark a copyright in any use of
the copyrighted material - is that incorrect?
** **
This is the practice Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, and MapQuest use for their
maps.
--
Jeff Meyer
Global World History Atlas
www.gwhat.org
j...@gwhat.org
206-676-2347
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical
OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM
/ my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer
t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory
f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory
___
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] (c) statement on openstreetmap.org slippy map?
Paul - Are you talking about the link to Copyright and License under Help in the left-nav or the statement The data is free to downloadhttp://planet.openstreetmap.org/ and use http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Using_OpenStreetMap under its open license http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright, which is also in the left-nav? I would contend that neither of those are a copyright mark. If we require others to put (c) OpenStreetMap contributors on their tiles, I believe we are obligated to do the same in order to demonstrate that we are taking appropriate steps to protect our copyrights. - Jeff On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Martin Holmgren d95ma...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! Maybe you are talking about different versions of the site? I just checked with my phone, and on the mobile version I can't find any copyright information, as the left menu column displayed in the desktop version is hidden on the mobile site. Kind regards, Marty 17 jan 2013 kl. 05:26 skrev Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org: Where is it? I didn't see any copyright on osm.org. On Wednesday, January 16, 2013, Paul Norman wrote: There is a prominent copyright license link on the openstreetmap.orgpage outlining the copyright information in detail. osm.org is a bit of a unique case because all the content on the site is openstreetmap data and the copyright information is content in its own right. ** ** *From:* Jeff Meyer [mailto:j...@gwhat.org] *Sent:* Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:30 PM *To:* legal-talk@openstreetmap.org *Subject:* [OSM-legal-talk] (c) statement on openstreetmap.org slippy map? ** ** Hi legal types - ** ** Should we be marking our own map at openstreetmap.org with the same markings we ask others to use? ** ** My impression is that you're supposed to mark a copyright in any use of the copyrighted material - is that incorrect? ** ** This is the practice Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, and MapQuest use for their maps. -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Isn't the purpose of OSM and Contributors to credit or attribute the source of the map tile data? e.g. if FourSquare puts the OSM mark on their maps, they aren't showing that OSM has contributed to the 4sq map, they are attributing the source of their tiles to OSM. The fact that it links to, or mentions, OSM contributors isn't what this statement or mark is about. No one would call (c) Google.com a contributor mark. The fact that we elect to require reference to Contributors in our credits or to discuss Contributors on our copyright is something we choose to do because, well, because OSM rocks. My elaborate 2 cents... On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 16/01/13 19:08, Alex Barth wrote: ## Terminology: Contributor mark vs e. g. Attribution mark Some have pointed out that 'attribution mark' might be a more accurate name. That might be, I don't want to change up at the moment but definitely a discussion to be had if ever we use this term more officially on openstreetmap.org. I think the problem is that you are already locking in the terminology by using contributors in the URL of the landing page. In fact that's my main problem with the terminology - the proposed content is not at all what I would expect to see on a page with that URL as the URL suggests some sort of list of contributors. ## Design There were comments on the design being heavy on pictures and not using the current OpenStreetMap.org template. I'm thinking these are good things. With adjustments, I'd love to keep it this way. The pictures help us communicate that OSM is created by many many, many individuals, the full screen page allows us to focus the message. And yes, there is scrolling before hitting the links. This is good as we'll want to have the space for a couple of points to get across before people jump off. It's not the case that we've got great introductory properties to link to right now :) In the future this could change: E. g. as soon as we have great introductory material we could link this more prominently Get started mapping above the fold. Or we could come up with a variation of the page that offers a link into an editor placing you right where you left the map. That said, we should work on taking a stronger queue from the overall osm.org appearance to link this ad stronger to OpenStreetMap: https://github.com/**openstreetmap/openstreetmap-** website/pull/180#issuecomment-**12333532https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180#issuecomment-12333532 The scrolling itself is not the problem so much as the lack of visual cues that you can scroll - as I said on IRC it was only after you started talking about a link that I couldn't see that I realised there was anything below the fold as the giant picture had made it look like a fixed page. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Apologies for being rhetorical and passive in my prior post. Maybe is incorrect. The statement (c) OpenStreetMap contributors _is definitely_ a required credit. See: http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright You are free to copy, distribute, transmit and adapt our data, as long as you credit OpenStreetMap and its contributors. The page then goes on to describe how to do this credit. This web page defines our implementation of ODBL para 4.3.(a). Up to now, I'm not talking only about the existing copyright markings and not about the teardrop / hammer mark But, Alex has stated that he *does* want to replace that statement with a mark (sounds cool to me), so he's suggesting we amend the copyright and license terms, which might be doable under para 4.3 of the ODBL referenced by Paul (http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/). In addition, Alex is suggesting that the mark link not the existing copyright statement, but to a different contributors page, which seems (to this caveman lawyer) less likely to adhere to para 4.3. The function of credit/attribution/notification that ODBL-derived data was a source for a Produced Work is a requirement of the ODBL. So, we have a requirement for at least 1 mark that references at least source copyright, etc. It seems like the options are: a) Add a better sense essence of contributors modifiability to the existing copyright notice. b) Add another mark (a) seems more feasible, as I don't think OSM-related Produced Works want to add multiple marks to a single map (or would we), but who knows? We definitely need Legal WG input here. On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Paweł Paprota ppa...@fastmail.fm wrote: Isn't the purpose of OSM and Contributors to credit or attribute the source of the map tile data? Maybe, maybe not. More importantly - the fact that there's a discussion what this mark tries to communicate means that it fails to do it properly in the first place. At first glance I thought it was just sort of a banner to promote OSM but if it is to replace the legal attribution then it's not really doing that job. I support Kai's idea about separating the two functions. I like the Wikipedia example. It would be really cool to have a widely known edit button/symbol/mark sitting in the corner of embedded maps to show that the map is a living thing that can be corrected, enriched etc. I also agree with Tom - naming stuff *is* very important and is definitely not a side issue. Right now contributors mark suggests at least two different things - list of contributors or some kind of award for being a contributor and neither of them is true... This stuff should really be dead simple and intuitive, if you have to think about it as a user, explain, discuss then forget it, it won't work in the wild. Of course it's always harder to communicate more with less but that's the main challenge I see here... Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Alex - for the recent King County and City of Seattle disclaimers, I explicitly pointed them to the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/** wiki/Contributors http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors, and asked if putting the disclaimers on that page would suffice. They said yes. I don't know if that means the wiki page is the right or best solution, just that it indisputably worked for 2 sources. My impression is that there's also a mismatch between import sources who *should* be listed (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Import) and those who actually are. I'd be glad to compare and update the attributions... assuming no one else is dying to do it! ; ) - Jeff On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 15.01.2013 23:15, Alex Barth wrote: I'd like to understand better, have these parties been promised the /copyright location for credits? How do they wind up on there vs. on the wiki? Is there any leeway to merge them into (a better) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/Contributorshttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributorsand move them a click away from the page on OSM that's linked from maps? It's hard to say what is, or has been, promised. But we (=we the project, not we the OSMF) occasionally encounter potential data providers who have some sort of license that says you must provide attribution, without clearly saying where and how. Then we often explain OSM to them, saying you can't get attribution on the map, but your attribution will be in the object history and if you want we can put you on http://www.openstreetmap.org/**copyrighthttp://www.openstreetmap.org/copyrightwhich we ask people to link to when they use our data, and we ask them would that fulfil your demand for attribution? and if they say yes we can use their data. You'd have to check with LWG but I doubt that any of those listed on that page have been promised to be exactly one click away from the map; they probably have been promised to be listed on this page. Still it could be perceived as bad style if we move them to a less prominent place. I don't think that a Wiki page will do because the words on the copyright page are probably meant to be written exactly as they are there, and not subject to Wiki editing, for legal reasons. But that would really be something to discuss with the LWG. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] Updated Invitation: Historical OSM Hangout - Asia, Australia, Pacific @ Tue Jan 15 9pm - 10pm (talk-au@openstreetmap.org)
BEGIN:VCALENDAR PRODID:-//Google Inc//Google Calendar 70.9054//EN VERSION:2.0 CALSCALE:GREGORIAN METHOD:REQUEST BEGIN:VEVENT DTSTART:20130116T05Z DTEND:20130116T06Z DTSTAMP:20130116T045710Z ORGANIZER;CN=Jeff Meyer:mailto:j...@gwhat.org UID:o42n9b427l8t13nujugkbl1...@google.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-ru@openstreetm ap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk-au@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-au@openstreetm ap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=histo...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:historic@openstree tmap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=ACCEPTED;RSVP=TRUE ;CN=Jeff Meyer;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:j...@gwhat.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-in@openstreetm ap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-ja@openstreetm ap.org X-GOOGLE-HANGOUT:https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/amVmZkBnd2hhdC 5vcmc.o42n9b427l8t13nujugkbl1u9c CREATED:20130109T192740Z DESCRIPTION:I'd like to host a Historical OSM Google Hangout for those who have not been able to make past hangouts due to time difference issues.\n\n Our goal is to create a parallel version of the OSM stack for use in mappin g places as they've looked through history and to eventually create time-ba sed tiles or basemaps.\n\nTo learn more about this project\, please see: ht tp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM\n\nI believe this should be :\n0900 Moscow\n1030 Mumbai\n1400 Tokyo\n1600 Melbourne\n\nPlease confirm i f you can attend - I'd like to ensure a fun crowd.\n\nMy guess is that Engl ish will be the language of the call\, but if anyone would like to lead the effort in other languages\, please let me know.\n\nRegards\,\nJeff\n \nVie w your event at http://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEWeid=bzQybj liNDI3bDh0MTNudWp1Z2tibDF1OWMgdGFsay1hdUBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZwtok=MTQjam VmZkBnd2hhdC5vcmc1MThkNmEyNDA1NzVmMTcwYTVkM2M0MGU5YWRmNThiMTYyZTM4NmNkctz= America/Los_Angeleshl=en. LAST-MODIFIED:20130116T045709Z LOCATION:Google Hangout SEQUENCE:0 STATUS:CONFIRMED SUMMARY:Historical OSM Hangout - Asia\, Australia\, Pacific TRANSP:OPAQUE END:VEVENT END:VCALENDAR invite.ics Description: application/ics ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Historic OSM Google Hangout Link
It may not have been in the prior invite - my apologies!! https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/3464d1b49edc6d99fc15bb419fa7f26b3545205a See you soon, Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[Talk-in] Historic OSM Google Hangout Link
It may not have been in the prior invite - my apologies!! https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/3464d1b49edc6d99fc15bb419fa7f26b3545205a See you soon, Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
[OSM-ja] Updated Invitation: Historical OSM Hangout - Asia, Australia, Pacific @ Tue Jan 15 9pm - 10pm (talk-ja@openstreetmap.org)
BEGIN:VCALENDAR PRODID:-//Google Inc//Google Calendar 70.9054//EN VERSION:2.0 CALSCALE:GREGORIAN METHOD:REQUEST BEGIN:VEVENT DTSTART:20130116T05Z DTEND:20130116T06Z DTSTAMP:20130116T045710Z ORGANIZER;CN=Jeff Meyer:mailto:j...@gwhat.org UID:o42n9b427l8t13nujugkbl1...@google.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-ru@openstreetm ap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-au@openstreetm ap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=histo...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:historic@openstree tmap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=ACCEPTED;RSVP=TRUE ;CN=Jeff Meyer;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:j...@gwhat.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-in@openstreetm ap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk-ja@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-ja@openstreetm ap.org X-GOOGLE-HANGOUT:https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/amVmZkBnd2hhdC 5vcmc.o42n9b427l8t13nujugkbl1u9c CREATED:20130109T192740Z DESCRIPTION:I'd like to host a Historical OSM Google Hangout for those who have not been able to make past hangouts due to time difference issues.\n\n Our goal is to create a parallel version of the OSM stack for use in mappin g places as they've looked through history and to eventually create time-ba sed tiles or basemaps.\n\nTo learn more about this project\, please see: ht tp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM\n\nI believe this should be :\n0900 Moscow\n1030 Mumbai\n1400 Tokyo\n1600 Melbourne\n\nPlease confirm i f you can attend - I'd like to ensure a fun crowd.\n\nMy guess is that Engl ish will be the language of the call\, but if anyone would like to lead the effort in other languages\, please let me know.\n\nRegards\,\nJeff\n \nVie w your event at http://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEWeid=bzQybj liNDI3bDh0MTNudWp1Z2tibDF1OWMgdGFsay1qYUBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZwtok=MTQjam VmZkBnd2hhdC5vcmdkMmFiZTdmMGY3MzQwN2M3ZmNjMGRmOWJmZWZhOWE2NmEzODRkZmYzctz= America/Los_Angeleshl=en. LAST-MODIFIED:20130116T045709Z LOCATION:Google Hangout SEQUENCE:0 STATUS:CONFIRMED SUMMARY:Historical OSM Hangout - Asia\, Australia\, Pacific TRANSP:OPAQUE END:VEVENT END:VCALENDAR invite.ics Description: application/ics ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
[OSM-ja] Historic OSM Google Hangout Link
It may not have been in the prior invite - my apologies!! https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/3464d1b49edc6d99fc15bb419fa7f26b3545205a See you soon, Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [Talk-us] Is there a great geo event that we don't have on our calendar yet? Let me know!
OSM JOSM Training - Seattle, 27 Jan 13 http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Seattle/events/98810772/ On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.comwrote: How about the 2013 Free and Open Source Software for Geospatial North America (FOSS4G-NA) conference? It'll be May 22-24 in Minneapolis, MN http://foss4g-na.org/ On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: http://www.openstreetmap.us/calendar/ Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Simon - thanks! But... I didn't see any teardrops or armpits there - is there another place to look for past teardrops? On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/Logos#Logo_design_**competitionshttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logos#Logo_design_competitions Am 14.01.2013 19:12, schrieb Jeff Meyer: Are there any links to past design comps? Past teardrops? Dare I ask, past armpits? __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Ah now I see... they're really upside-down teardrops or pushpins/mapmarkers. Sorry to be so literal! On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: There was also http://www.crowdspring.com/project/2316224_openstreetmap-logo/access/which mainly had pins. Simon Am 14.01.2013 20:15, schrieb Jeff Meyer: Simon - thanks! But... I didn't see any teardrops or armpits there - is there another place to look for past teardrops? On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logos#Logo_design_competitions Am 14.01.2013 19:12, schrieb Jeff Meyer: Are there any links to past design comps? Past teardrops? Dare I ask, past armpits? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
I love everything except the icon and the absence of attribution text. (It's really an attribution mark, right? Calling it a contributor mark seems confusing.) It's almost as if the icon is intentionally nondescript, to drive questions about OSM's current branding. If so, that's probably a good discussion to have I'm all for that, too, just separately. -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 osm: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Taginfo updates
++1 Very nice! TagInfo rocks. : ) On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Great work Jochen! Great to see that TagInfo is being cared for so lovingly :) Martijn On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org wrote: Hi! Taginfo got a few updates. Details here: http://blog.jochentopf.com/2013-01-10-taginfo-news.html If you don't know taginfo already, have a look: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/ Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org
+1 to JM's request for putting together a plan to gather data. Moral and ethical questions aside, we don't know the value to OSM unless we test. I believe larger sites do things like offer a different home page to different users - e.g. one with these links, and then one without - in an attempt to compare two concurrent data sets, but I'm not sure how feasible that approach would be. The timeframe for the test is another data point - did the Comms WG have any thoughts on how to long to run this test? 3 months? 6 months? - Jeff On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org wrote: On 09/01/2013 01:37, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote: I may be a grumpy old dinosaur but I don't see how diluting the Openstreetmap brand into the bland broth of proprietary centralized social services that plague the Internet nowadays will bring any value... But that's just my worthless opinion [..] But first, can we agree that user behaviour data is the raw material ? Data-driven research : 100% of subsequent posts in this thread have indulged in bikeshedding about whether to place a Facetweet button on the home page, while my remark was merely introductory to the main point of feeding our discussion not with opinions but with facts mined from visitor activity. Anyway... Can anyone from the CWG give us a peek into the analytical tooling currently built into Openstreetmap's Web presence, what we can expect from it, what the future holds and what contributions are most welcome ? __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] piwik.openstreetmap.org - what is it?
Is it active? What reports does it generate? Any way to see what it's doing? Thanks! Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org
+1 to JM's -1's to my +1 comments ; ) On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org wrote: On 01/09/2013 08:49 PM, Jeff Meyer wrote: +1 to JM's request for putting together a plan to gather data. Moral and ethical questions aside, we don't know the value to OSM unless we test. Actually, moral and ethical problems must be defused preemptively - especially within a project that upholds exemplary values. Data retention policy sounds awfully corporate, but such document is the foundation for not unthinkingly drifting sooner and later into behaviours that we would not have condoned in the first place. Is anyone aware of such document somewhere around OSM ? Of particular importance is the anonymization of user data - an essential step if we wish to provide useful datasets to a group larger than a trusted core. I believe larger sites do things like offer a different home page to different users - e.g. one with these links, and then one without - in an attempt to compare two concurrent data sets, but I'm not sure how feasible that approach would be. That is called behavioural targeting. It is rather more advanced than what is usually needed to begin with and users don't like being aware that a specially skewed content has been served to them. That said, as an intermediary step, we might want to differentiate more strongly between logged users, non-logged users with a specific cookie and new arrivals. The timeframe for the test is another data point - did the Comms WG have any thoughts on how to long to run this test? 3 months? 6 months? We don't even know if they are aware of this thread... I'm cc:ing a few of them in case they aren't. -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] piwik.openstreetmap.org - what is it?
Tom - thanks for the reply. Good to know that it's there. As it is there, how are the reports and data currently used? I take it there's no way to anonymize? (I realize there are plenty of cases where anonymized datasets have been reversed to id individuals.) Thanks, Jeff On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 09/01/13 19:53, Jeff Meyer wrote: Is it active? Yes. What reports does it generate? Everything you see at http://piwik.org/ basically. Any way to see what it's doing? Not really. There are data protection issues that make it impossible to make access generally available. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/01/2013 00:17, Rovastar wrote: Just because I contribute to an 'open' database, does that mean I have to oppose anything that is 'closed' or proprietary?7 That depends on what you think of social welfare programs. ducks ; ) Absolutely not. I'm +1 for anything that might increase word of mouth or interest in OSM, including links to Twitter, Facebook G+, and the like, even if they have those insidious little linkie things on them. I visit sites that include those gremlins every day have never *not* gone to a site because of them. I also happen to use a cookie blocker for Facebook a Facebook specific browser. Twitter, in particular, already has a fair amount of OSM-related chatter on it. It's how I learned about the 1 millionth registration. twitter: https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] Invitation: Historical OSM Hangout - Asia, Australia, Pacific @ Tue Jan 15 9pm - 10pm (talk-au@openstreetmap.org)
BEGIN:VCALENDAR PRODID:-//Google Inc//Google Calendar 70.9054//EN VERSION:2.0 CALSCALE:GREGORIAN METHOD:REQUEST BEGIN:VEVENT DTSTART:20130116T05Z DTEND:20130116T06Z DTSTAMP:20130109T192740Z ORGANIZER;CN=j...@gwhat.org:mailto:j...@gwhat.org UID:o42n9b427l8t13nujugkbl1...@google.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-ru@openstreetm ap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk-au@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-au@openstreetm ap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=histo...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:historic@openstree tmap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=ACCEPTED;RSVP=TRUE ;CN=Jeff Meyer;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:j...@gwhat.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-in@openstreetm ap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-ja@openstreetm ap.org CREATED:20130109T192740Z DESCRIPTION:I'd like to host a Historical OSM Google Hangout for those who have not been able to make past hangouts due to time difference issues.\n\n Our goal is to create a parallel version of the OSM stack for use in mappin g places as they've looked through history and to eventually create time-ba sed tiles or basemaps.\n\nTo learn more about this project\, please see: ht tp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM\n\nI believe this should be :\n0900 Moscow\n1030 Mumbai\n1400 Tokyo\n1600 Melbourne\n\nPlease confirm i f you can attend - I'd like to ensure a fun crowd.\n\nMy guess is that Engl ish will be the language of the call\, but if anyone would like to lead the effort in other languages\, please let me know.\n\nRegards\,\nJeff\n \nVie w your event at http://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEWeid=bzQybj liNDI3bDh0MTNudWp1Z2tibDF1OWMgdGFsay1hdUBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZwtok=MTQjam VmZkBnd2hhdC5vcmc1MThkNmEyNDA1NzVmMTcwYTVkM2M0MGU5YWRmNThiMTYyZTM4NmNkctz= America/Los_Angeleshl=en. LAST-MODIFIED:20130109T192740Z LOCATION:Google Hangout SEQUENCE:0 STATUS:CONFIRMED SUMMARY:Historical OSM Hangout - Asia\, Australia\, Pacific TRANSP:OPAQUE END:VEVENT END:VCALENDAR invite.ics Description: application/ics ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[OSM-ja] Invitation: Historical OSM Hangout - Asia, Australia, Pacific @ Tue Jan 15 9pm - 10pm (talk-ja@openstreetmap.org)
BEGIN:VCALENDAR PRODID:-//Google Inc//Google Calendar 70.9054//EN VERSION:2.0 CALSCALE:GREGORIAN METHOD:REQUEST BEGIN:VEVENT DTSTART:20130116T05Z DTEND:20130116T06Z DTSTAMP:20130109T192740Z ORGANIZER;CN=j...@gwhat.org:mailto:j...@gwhat.org UID:o42n9b427l8t13nujugkbl1...@google.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-ru@openstreetm ap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-au@openstreetm ap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=histo...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:historic@openstree tmap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=ACCEPTED;RSVP=TRUE ;CN=Jeff Meyer;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:j...@gwhat.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk...@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-in@openstreetm ap.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=talk-ja@openstreetmap.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:talk-ja@openstreetm ap.org CREATED:20130109T192740Z DESCRIPTION:I'd like to host a Historical OSM Google Hangout for those who have not been able to make past hangouts due to time difference issues.\n\n Our goal is to create a parallel version of the OSM stack for use in mappin g places as they've looked through history and to eventually create time-ba sed tiles or basemaps.\n\nTo learn more about this project\, please see: ht tp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM\n\nI believe this should be :\n0900 Moscow\n1030 Mumbai\n1400 Tokyo\n1600 Melbourne\n\nPlease confirm i f you can attend - I'd like to ensure a fun crowd.\n\nMy guess is that Engl ish will be the language of the call\, but if anyone would like to lead the effort in other languages\, please let me know.\n\nRegards\,\nJeff\n \nVie w your event at http://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEWeid=bzQybj liNDI3bDh0MTNudWp1Z2tibDF1OWMgdGFsay1qYUBvcGVuc3RyZWV0bWFwLm9yZwtok=MTQjam VmZkBnd2hhdC5vcmdkMmFiZTdmMGY3MzQwN2M3ZmNjMGRmOWJmZWZhOWE2NmEzODRkZmYzctz= America/Los_Angeleshl=en. LAST-MODIFIED:20130109T192740Z LOCATION:Google Hangout SEQUENCE:0 STATUS:CONFIRMED SUMMARY:Historical OSM Hangout - Asia\, Australia\, Pacific TRANSP:OPAQUE END:VEVENT END:VCALENDAR invite.ics Description: application/ics ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [OSM-ja] Fwd: Historical OSM Hangout: 2013 01 09
Hello Satsoshi - Thank you for your note my apologies for writing in English. Your project sounds very interesting and I would like to discuss it further. Would you be free for a chat at some point online? I've also sent out a meeting notice for a Google+ meeting that might work better for Asia. I hope you can make it! Thanks, Jeff 2013/1/6 Satoshi IIDA nyamp...@gmail.com いいだです。 OSMで、過去のデータや歴史的なデータを扱いたいひとたちのテレカンファレンスがあるみたいです。 シアトル時間で9日のAM9:00なので、日本時間だと10日のAM2:00です。 今回話題に上がってるのはざっくりというと、 ・過去データOSM専用 Planetの構築について ・過去データOSM専用 Planetの、書き込みテスト用サーバ構築について（Sandboxってやつです） ・最初にどのあたりの地域をターゲットにしたらよいかの検討。地域ごとに分割していても可。 っていうかんじです。 個人的にすごく面白いテーマだと思っていて、 要望とかをまとめるとこんなかんじなのかなぁ、とおもっています。 ■要望と課題 ・OSMは「現在の」データにフォーカスしている ・OSMにおいて、過去のデータを表現したい ・特別なスキーマや Planetが必要だ ■どんなことにつかうの？ ・過去の時代ごとのデータを作成する ・過去に存在した都や文明、朝廷や地方のデータを作成する ・西暦1000年時点の世界データ、とか、が作成できる ・文明の勃興、日本の戦国時代の表現など ・昭和XX年頃に存在した店舗や農地、など、過去のPOI、Landuse履歴を作成する ・過去の商圏やLanduseはどうだったんだろう、どう変化したんだろうとか、分析に使える ・津波や地震被災地の過去データを保存できる ・津波によって変化したPOIデータを時系列で表現できる ・復興してゆくPOIやLanduseを表現する事ができる 開催時間が厳しいのと、会話が英語なのとで難しい面が多いかと思うのですが、 興味のある方どうでしょう？ 2013/1/3 Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org: Hello - Happy New Year! My apologies for cross-posting, and doing so in English, but I believe talk@ is read less in non-English speaking countries. If there is anyone interested in mapping historical locations using the OSM stack, please join us for the Hangout listed below, or let me know if you have any questions. You can learn a little more about the project at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM-Historic Most importantly, we are looking for participation from around the world! Regards, Jeff http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer -- Forwarded message -- From: Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org Date: Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:33 PM Subject: Historical OSM Hangout: 2013 01 09 To: OpenStreetMap Talk Mailing List t...@openstreetmap.org, histo...@openstreetmap.org Happy New Year! The next Historical OSM hangout will be held on 9 January 2013 at 9am Seattle time, 5pm London time. Apologies to those on the other side of the planet - we can shift the schedule on the next go-round. Link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/415172b9c7e5b8e3777d35dd974bafbdf0763d4f Topics will include: - Progress on getting the HO sandbox up and running - hopefully, we'll have the HO rails port a tile server of some sort running by then. -- hosm.gwhat.org (the rails port for HO) is temporarily down while I mess around with getting the baseline planet straightened out -- There's a crude outline of the steps for generating the baseline planet at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_Sandbox#Base_Planet_Setup (this needs to be cleaned up, for sure) - Suggestions from the community for initial historical mapping focus areas - if we can divide up the world into a variety of different projects - e.g. various locations at various points in time, with no overlapping areas, then we won't have to solve the issue of time-enabling tools out of the gate. Please let me know if you have any questions or suggestions. Thanks, Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja -- Satoshi IIDA mail: nyamp...@gmail.com twitter: @nyampire ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Future Look
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 2:00 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: what kind of data would you want to see? Data supported by numbers, external studies, some employment of the scientific method that include evaluation of alternatives or the absence of what has been done, rather than long speculations in email. Data kind of like what you ask for here: On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Without any research into this, you cannot conclude that those who sign up would have been mappers if only our web interface was more like Facebook. I've started putting together a collection of this type of information at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_Studies On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 2:00 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I would like a lean and project-driven organisation that supports individual, clear-cut projects - from the small let's build a system that allows mappers to invite everyone in their vicinity to an event to the large let's build a system that makes sure OSM editing still works if the university where our central server sits goes offline, or things like let's try to have one mapping party in each country of the world, whatever. Fantastic. If this is true, why are most of your reactions to suggestions explanations of why those suggestions are bad ideas? Why not just say, Hey, good idea. Go for it. Here's a link to the typical process for getting new features added? You do go on to loosely describe this process in more detail, and I'll probably adapt that for more wiki documentation. That said, your first reaction to the suggestion of adding routing to the home page is negative. Then, later, you describe one routing effort you've been working on as good - and - it sounds like someone's already made a decision to add it to OSM. On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 7:00 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: by the time we'll run it on osm.org it will be relatively mature. Criticizing an idea without revealing that you're involved with a similar project. What's up with that? Has a decision been made that that *is* the routing engine that will be added to OSM? If so, great. I look forward to it. Has that been publicized in the community? On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.de wrote: Please just step back for a moment and take into account to possibility that OSM is more like a market and less like an organization. Except, in an market, I don't have people telling me that I'm not allowed to buy Pepsi, Coke, Fanta, or whatever, even those items are for sale and I have the money and I'm not breaking any laws. The contrary seems to be the norm here on this other OSM lists. Richard's comments support this perception, as well as the perceptions about receptivity to new features. On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 2:09 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote: But really, why bother? You'll only get crap thrown at you for doing so. Every time there's even a modest layout improvement to the front page, all hell breaks loose on some forum or other and there's an outcry of Why wasn't I consulted?. Thing is, if you actually look below the surface of the lists and the diaries and the chat snipers and all of that, there's a huge, silent layer of contributors new and old, just as there's always been, quietly getting on with mapping the world (when, that is, they're not being angry-messaged by experienced users to say YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG). They're the guys who make OSM what it is, not the voices on the lists. But I'm not strong enough to ignore the noisy ones, and I wish I was. Agreed. Part of the reason I speak up on these lists is because the angry and discouraging voices shouldn't be allowed to dominate. - Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Future Look
Paweł - Please do not be discouraged by the voice of one person delivering an ad-hominem attack. There are plenty of people - including myself - who are excited by your sabotage of OSM efforts through OWL. Where can I send the dynamite? I encourage others who are supportive of your efforts to speak up. Too often, there is silence in response to rude behavior on these lists. Thanks, Jeff On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Paweł Paprota ppa...@fastmail.fm wrote: Hi Richard, I just came back from a few hours of skiing, full of enthusiasm to continue my work on OWL and interested how the discussion in this thread evolved and what do I see? Accusations of sabotage thrown at me... So basically - I think I start to understand what you said. Paweł __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Future Look
Oh, sure... drag me into the fray. In general, I agree with Paweł, Hans, and Cliff - there are a variety of services we could offer on the front page of openstreetmap.org that would make visiting it a much more rich experience and more inviting to newer users. For example, I'd like to use OSM for my routing, but I'm not sure why I have to go anywhere other than osm.org to do that. Another example: there's nothing that says simply, You can map your local area - learn how! or Add your business to this map, or Start mapping. Perhaps the real question we should ask is, Why should the casual visitor, who looks at our current home page after knowing about Google Maps, Bing Maps, Yahoo Maps, etc. ever come back to osm? Do we care? I think many of us have plenty of good reasons, none of which are obvious from the home page content. - Jeff On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.uswrote: I agree. We have so much good data, we just need to improve the map interface so more people come to OSM first. My friend Jeff Meyer just commented the other day that he wondered why we don't have an easy way for businesses to add their establishments to OSM. I know that Yahoo and Bing have it. Last year I helped my local gym out. They moved two blocks. Of course, OSM was fix on the day of the move. Bing and Yahoo had an easy web page to enter the new information. But if he had to go through the process of making the change in OSM it would have never happened. We can and shouldn't expect everyone to have the same interest in learn how to map. But we should make it easy to add and update data for businesses. On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 3:04 AM, Paweł Paprota ppa...@fastmail.fm wrote: Hello Clifford, Very interesting e-mail. It seems that as the project grows, there is more and more people feeling like there should be some kind of next level that OSM as a project and community should reach. I agree with that. It seems to me that OSM needs a full time staff that can work with the community to build OSM for the future. I would think that at the rate we are growing, we need to be planning for a much bigger future. Just a few days ago I replied to a mailing list thread about OSM's market share with my thoughts on precisely this topic you mention in the quote above: http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/pipermail/talk/2013-** January/06.htmlhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2013-January/06.html I am a developer so my area of interest is technical but I am sure that in other areas like working with the community, communication and advertising, data (handling vandalisms, imports) there is a similar need for more involvement. Sure it would be great to have the project run on volunteers - money (some people being paid) thrown in the mix always causes problems at some point - but I think it's becoming clear that OSM cannot reach that next level without some sort of push... After all, it's normal in other large projects/organizations that some people are working full time on it. Perhaps OSM needs to evolve a little bit more to embrace such model? The other problem is much simpler - where do you get the money from? I thought about OSM Foundation getting involved and trying to get some funding for the project. Not sure how that would work legally but at this point there has to be a way to get money for development - it's clear that many stakeholders and users of OSM want to see the project moving forward and I'm sure some of them are willing to donate money. Paweł __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Future Look
is a distinct theoretical possibility that only the tiniest fraction of Linux users will ever make use of; we must not allow ourselves get into this kind of thinking where a small group of map maintainers makes the great map for millions of people out there. So the next time you say that something must forward or needs a push or must be more usable, if you explain how that feature will help us form a stronger community of committed mappers I'll be much more likely to agree than if you just say our map page would be more useful then. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] Anyone ever talked about adding more Land Ownership data to OSM?
Isn't that true of all data in the database? On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 7:52 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Monday, January 7, 2013, Ian Dees wrote: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Nathan Mixter nmix...@gmail.com wrote: It would be awesome to include the land ownership data from BLM especially if we could do it for the whole US. Unfortunately that is probably not something that people would want to add because of the conflicts with other data. I wonder if we could include it on a limited basis or only include certain features. We just had this conversation a couple threads ago. This sort of land ownership border doesn't really belong in OSM because we can't improve it. It's already in OSM because some people imported the BLM data so they could see national park boundaries. Just because we can't improve it doesn't mean it can't improve the map. I disagree. If we can't improve it then the only thing it can do is sit in the database and become wrong. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Anyone ever talked about adding more Land Ownership data to OSM?
My apologies - my real point was that it doesn't seem that rules are being applied equally across different data sets. For example, requiring that any data imported into OSM have a lifetime maintenance plan seems like something that we don't require of *any* OSM data entry. Most data is entered with the *hope* and belief that others will come along and fix it. All of the rules about observability and verifiability apply to country and state borders, as well, as Mike states, but we include them and somehow improve them. Neighborhoods are not a relevant comparison. There can be defined boundary neighborhoods and human perceptions of those boundaries, and the two can have different outlines - they are both correct. The information discussed in the other thread - local parcel information - is on a completely different scale as this BLM data. Does that mean it's different? I don't know. Possibly. Some of the arguments (not all) against including parcel data were related to data density. I doubt those apply in the case of huge. The inclusion of this information - as a few others have mentioned, is extremely helpful when going across doubletrack and unimproved roads in the American west. Last year, I road a mountain bike from Durango, CO to Moab, UT with a group of friends. Whether we were in private, BLM, FS, or state land made quite a difference in what we could and could not do off the roads, which in turn could have helped us with route planning. And, we could have improved the data by tracking POIs at the boundaries of these lands - they're usually pretty well marked. I'd love to see the BLM data included. But, whether we want it or not, shouldn't we be fair in discussing reasons for or against this data or explicit in our exceptions? - Jeff On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org wrote: Isn't that true of all data in the database? OSM is built on surveyors doing surveys. That is we have people who go out and walk around with GPSes, or maps, and manually survey what's on the ground. Then when a second person goes to the same area, they are validatidating the original data. Maybe the second person has more accurate data in some part, or maybe there's been a change, etc. We've shown in studies that the number of mappers increases both the data density and the data accuracy over time. But this only works with ground observable data. Land owership isn't ground observable. Sometimes a feature, such as a fence is, but the actual land owership isn't. Therefore, it's not possible for a second observer to come in and provide either validation or updates to the data. Additionally, land ownership changes frequently. Lastly, there is only one authoritative source for this data. To recap: Land ownership data is only available from the government, which is the one authoritative source of this data. It's not something that the crowdsourcing model lends itself well to. And it changes rapidly. So what Ian has suggested, and I agree with him on, is that this data is a poor candidate for inclusion into the crowdsourced OSM data. That doesn't mean it can't be used alongside it. This land ownership data (assuming it's licensed properly) can be rendered on the same map as OSM data (there are many examples of using TileMill to mix data sources in just this way) and if the data is imported into a database, there can be queries made against the two sets, so it would be possible to see the land owner for a given POI, for example. This is the best of both worlds. It keeps the OSM focusing on its strength, and makes it easy to stay current and precise on the land ownership dataset. Someone else brought up boundries, so let's discuss boundries. Boundaries in OSM, especially in the US, have been an ongoing and constant problem. Boundaries are places where people are fiddling all the time, trying to get the exact levels right. In addition, much of the US has duplicate boundaries (places represented by areas, and nodes), arguments about the definition of spaces, disagreements in the data between municipal and census data, etc. And this data changes, and we have not (even after years of working on the problem) found a good way to conflate and update. Finally, on top of that, the information Flickr has collected is telling us that our idea of neighborhoods needs to be rethought,and really does not lend itself well to the OSM model. So there too, is a potential win for OSM. We could rely on current, highly accurate public domain boundry data and use that for rendering, geolocation and other places, while keeping it out of the OSM dataset. The result of this would be: 1. More up to date maps 2. More accurate maps 3. Better geolocation (forward and reverse) 4. Reduction in errors caused by flawed data in OSM 5. Less editing wars due to differences of opinion between mappers
Re: [Talk-us] Anyone ever talked about adding more Land Ownership data to OSM?
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:08 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org wrote: All of the rules about observability and verifiability apply to country and state borders, as well, as Mike states, but we include them and somehow improve them. Have we improved them? I probably misstated there - I was taking some of the prior comments on this thread that that's what OSM has done at face value. It sounds like that might not be the case. -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] Can Google use our buildings
Dave -
What is the collection date of the imagery used? I couldn't find reference
to it.
What would be the measure of relatively out of date? Outside of newly
developed areas, even imagery that is 5 years old could reasonably be
expected to be ~95% accurate over most of the country. (Based on building
completion estimates). So, isn't much of what's actually on the ground
actually depicted in imagery that's only a few years old?
Is there measured proof that filled maps are never QA'd? If so, why does
Google offer tools to do just that? If there is no proof, what is the basis
of your hypothesis?
What would stop OSMers from QAing this type of data collection prior to
inclusion in OSM?
Why is accuracy the primary measure of concern here? As opposed to, say:
completeness or consistency?
Would it be that big of a problem if someone mapped somewhere other than
where these building images are, as long as they were mapping?
Thanks, Jeff
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 5:28 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
I understand what why you're saying this, Nathan, but remember these
images are all, relatively, out of date. I would rather that gaps were left
to be filled with what's is actually on the ground rather than what was
there a few years ago.
I take pride that my city has newest buildings roads mapped in OSM
before *any* other mapping service. (I'm still getting around to adding the
old, been there for centuries, houses)
Having all areas filled with polygons of buildings doesn't actually
encourage users to refill it with up to date data. More often than not,
they think because *some* data is mapped it must be correct go map
elsewhere.
Personally I'd rather have (slightly) less, but more accurate data than
blanket inaccurate data. When I first started ('09) I thought the opposite.
On 07/01/2013 00:50, Nathan Mixter wrote:
I'm not sure if this link has been posted before, but for those wondering
how Google got their new buildings, there is a link at PC Magazine
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2411232,00.asp. Apparently they
recently uploaded 25M buildings done through an automated image recognition
software.
I've manually added most of the buildings in the city of Gilroy (
http://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/?lon=-121.56369lat=37.00553zoom=17) so I
was curious to find out where they got their data from. I thought maybe the
city or county had a secret source that I hadn't found. And I checked
everywhere I could to find buildings that could have been imported.
I was wondering if OSM could do the same thing. Could we buy as a group a
program like Feature Analyst, eCognition or Imagine Objective and add
buildings that way? We could combine the buildings with any existing
address points available. I checked into it earlier this year and one
program was about $2,000. But the money could be quickly raised. I know I
would be willing to donate.
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Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues
Robin - my apologies for my crankiness. You did not presume anything. On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 5:59 AM, Robin Paulson ro...@bumblepuppy.org wrote: the point i was trying to make is that perhaps the experience is alienating because of all the new software, ideas, concepts that someone who wishes to map has to learn. instead of more software, more tools, perhaps what they need is someone talking with them? maybe they are the types that don't read help guides, that if they can't understand it straight away give up, rather than search for help or advice? Yes, I believe it can be alienating because of all the tools. My goal is to have something more integral to the editing or observation experience, rather than taking people out of / away from OSM. It should be no more intrusive than say Nominatim. To you latter point, yes, I believe those types are 85+% of Internet users. I'm not a long-time OSMer, but I've been working hard in my local hood I think I'd benefit from such assistance. -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Historical OSM Hangout: 2013 01 09
Happy New Year! The next Historical OSM hangout will be held on 9 January 2013 at 9am Seattle time, 5pm London time. Apologies to those on the other side of the planet - we can shift the schedule on the next go-round. Link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/415172b9c7e5b8e3777d35dd974bafbdf0763d4f Topics will include: - Progress on getting the HO sandbox up and running - hopefully, we'll have the HO rails port a tile server of some sort running by then. -- hosm.gwhat.org (the rails port for HO) is temporarily down while I mess around with getting the baseline planet straightened out -- There's a crude outline of the steps for generating the baseline planet at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_Sandbox#Base_Planet_Setup(this needs to be cleaned up, for sure) - Suggestions from the community for initial historical mapping focus areas - if we can divide up the world into a variety of different projects - e.g. various locations at various points in time, with no overlapping areas, then we won't have to solve the issue of time-enabling tools out of the gate. Please let me know if you have any questions or suggestions. Thanks, Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-in] Fwd: Historical OSM Hangout: 2013 01 09
Hello - Happy New Year! My apologies for cross-posting, but I'm very interested in getting participation in Historical OSM from around the world. If there is anyone interested in mapping historical locations using the OSM stack, please join us for the Hangout listed below, or let me know if you have any questions. You can learn a little more about the project at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM-Historic Regards, Jeff http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer The next Historical OSM hangout will be held on 9 January 2013 at 9am Seattle time, 5pm London time. Apologies to those on the other side of the planet - we can shift the schedule on the next go-round. Link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/415172b9c7e5b8e3777d35dd974bafbdf0763d4f Topics will include: - Progress on getting the HO sandbox up and running - hopefully, we'll have the HO rails port a tile server of some sort running by then. -- hosm.gwhat.org (the rails port for HO) is temporarily down while I mess around with getting the baseline planet straightened out -- There's a crude outline of the steps for generating the baseline planet at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_Sandbox#Base_Planet_Setup(this needs to be cleaned up, for sure) - Suggestions from the community for initial historical mapping focus areas - if we can divide up the world into a variety of different projects - e.g. various locations at various points in time, with no overlapping areas, then we won't have to solve the issue of time-enabling tools out of the gate. Please let me know if you have any questions or suggestions. Thanks, Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
[OSM-ja] Fwd: Historical OSM Hangout: 2013 01 09
Hello - Happy New Year! My apologies for cross-posting, and doing so in English, but I believe talk@is read less in non-English speaking countries. If there is anyone interested in mapping historical locations using the OSM stack, please join us for the Hangout listed below, or let me know if you have any questions. You can learn a little more about the project at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM-Historic Most importantly, we are looking for participation from around the world! Regards, Jeff http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer -- Forwarded message -- From: Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org Date: Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:33 PM Subject: Historical OSM Hangout: 2013 01 09 To: OpenStreetMap Talk Mailing List t...@openstreetmap.org, histo...@openstreetmap.org Happy New Year! The next Historical OSM hangout will be held on 9 January 2013 at 9am Seattle time, 5pm London time. Apologies to those on the other side of the planet - we can shift the schedule on the next go-round. Link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/415172b9c7e5b8e3777d35dd974bafbdf0763d4f Topics will include: - Progress on getting the HO sandbox up and running - hopefully, we'll have the HO rails port a tile server of some sort running by then. -- hosm.gwhat.org (the rails port for HO) is temporarily down while I mess around with getting the baseline planet straightened out -- There's a crude outline of the steps for generating the baseline planet at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_Sandbox#Base_Planet_Setup(this needs to be cleaned up, for sure) - Suggestions from the community for initial historical mapping focus areas - if we can divide up the world into a variety of different projects - e.g. various locations at various points in time, with no overlapping areas, then we won't have to solve the issue of time-enabling tools out of the gate. Please let me know if you have any questions or suggestions. Thanks, Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [Talk-us] Adopt-a-highway representation in OSM
Is there a difference between deprecated and now used less frequently? Deprecated sounds pretty official, especially in our unofficious (word?) OSM society. On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 4:42 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 6:55 AM, dies38...@mypacks.net wrote: Whoa! Source is a deprecated tag, having been for years?! Good grief - the wiki has no indication that this is the case; http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source . Could someone please confirm that source is a deprecated tag and that it should no longer be used? --ceyockey You're right; the documentation didn't reflect that. The source tag is one of those things which has changed. We used to stick a ton of information on the object, but as time has gone on, we've moved metadata to the changeset. Another example of this would be created_by. Older objects in OSM have a created_by tag that indicates the editor used to create the object. Modern editors put that information on the changeset. The editor community has discussed making source a default tag in the editor when a secondary source is used, for example if you were to have a Bing imagery layer, source=bing would be automatically filled in. source has been generally deprecated by use. Editors no longer use them by default, and most mappers don't use them on objects. The fact the documentation didn't reflect that is frustrating and confusing, but not surprising. I've fixed the documentation and added a section about the old use. - Serge -Original Message- From: Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com Sent: Jan 1, 2013 9:31 PM To: dies38...@mypacks.net Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Adopt-a-highway representation in OSM Off list. I see you've put source and source:date tags on many objects. source on objects has been deprecated for years. I also see you've omitted those tags on your changesets (where they should be). Sadly changesets can't be edited once they've closed, but maybe you can use them in the future? - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Adopt-a-highway representation in OSM
Exactly. Where are these official declarations posted inside OSM? For example, Serge indicated source=* has been deprecated. Where is this (should this be) recorded? On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: deprecated is a pretty official declaration that something shouldn't be done/used anymore -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues
Russ - I agree that rules can be tricky. Would it be possible, to play around with the code you've written, to see what results it generates? The issue I'm trying to address is this: people who sign up for OSM then make 0 edits. Why? Is it because they cannot find the editor? Is it because they don't know what to edit? I'm trying to hit the latter question, which is where I think I'm trying to do something different from what Robin Serge discuss - there *are* people who don't know what OSM offers them that interests them. They haven't decided to go out for a walk yet, they haven't decided they're going to test the waters. OSM can be intimidating. How do we make it less so? - Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues
What do you mean, The wrong route? Is there a wrong route for recruiting and engaging new mappers? As for interacting, why are you presuming I have not done so? On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Robin Paulson ro...@bumblepuppy.org wrote: On 2013-01-02 07:26, Jeff Meyer wrote: I agree that rules can be tricky. Would it be possible, to play around with the code youve written, to see what results it generates? The issue Im trying to address is this: people who sign up for OSM then make 0 edits. Why? Is it because they cannot find the editor? Is it because they dont know what to edit? have you tried good old human interaction? rather than trying to second guess them and spending a lot of time creating some tool which doesn't address the problem, maybe ask why they don't contribute? this isn't at all answering the question you asked, but i think you may have asked a question which takes you down the wrong route. -- robin http://**universitywithoutconditions.**ac.nzhttp://universitywithoutconditions.ac.nz- Auckland's Free University __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] An admin_level for CDPs?
a good idea. And for other *SAs designated by the OMB (not the Bureau of the Census)? What about those? Finally, while there seems to be no argument that New York City is 5, and LAFCos in California are 7, what about MPOs? These are a odd blend of where a locality's transportation planning agency wants to qualify for federal money, so they create an MPO per federal Code which qualifies them for it. This MPO becomes a de facto and de jure administrative boundary, for both local and federal reasons, effectively bypassing state-level government. Do we want to assign MPOs an admin_level tag in OSM? (I'm guessing no, but I feel the need to offer due diligence that at least this question was asked). SteveA California __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] parcel data in OSM
Why does imports mean not crowdsourced, if the crowd determines which imports are source-able? Why doesn't public-domain data that the crowd has funded count as crowdsourced? No one has been able to provide directly observable verifiable information about Ptolemy, yet there is still a Wikipedia page about him. My concern about this entire discussion is that the whole import vs community argument is employed even when there is a community behind an import. On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 3:21 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 31.12.2012 06:49, Steve Coast wrote: Therefore I don't see why each country or state (i.e. Mass. and their own imports) can't have it's own solution which reflects the cultural realities there. Your argument seems to be, essentially, that the cultural reality there is that they have no need for a crowdsourced map. If that is so, then maybe we should just accept that, and move on to places where there is such a need? When you say that Waze has not failed, I wouldn't know - Waze has zero publicity where I live, and their website offers a choice of United States - Italy - Spain - Israel - Rest of world. It may be a big thing in the States but over here it usually doesn't even get a mention when people are talking about map data. You're also talking of ten or twenty crowd-sourced maps of the world, and making it sound like a threat to OSM. The real threat to OSM is to rely on imported data. If 99.9% of data in the US comes from imported sources, then those ten or twenty other crowd-sourced maps can simply import the same, and boast: Our map has only 0.1% less than OpenStreetMap, and we're growing! You say that most users don't care where their data comes from, they just use whatever is in the package. Which also means that user adoption of OSM is worth little; if there's OSM on the iPhone today, there might be OtherSM (which offers 99.9% of the data that OSM has plus more favourable licensing terms) on the iPhone tomorrow and there goes your user base. Any advantage we want to have over the competition that you paint on the wall can only come through a large community that cares for our data, a community committed to OSM, doing work that cannot be easily replaced by 50 programmers from some outsourcing company. In one sentence of your long post you mention the hope that imports could actually enlarge the community: If we could hand wave a yes it would change a lot of things and create positive feedback in more people resources to fix the map. I've heard that quite often. If only we import just a little more, then our map will suddenly cross some usability threshold and we'll have more users contributing quality data than we can wish for. I guess it's a matter of faith. I can't prove you wrong but there's no evidence to support that hope either. Anyway. Maybe I'm completely wrong. Your lament about us having given up on the output side is worth discussing calmly, at another time, in another thread. It rests on the same assumption that more users means more mappers, and I don't like the wording, but it might not be *entirely* wrong. The question is, however, if the means we have available would allow us to not give up on the output side, or if trying to acquire the necessary means would make us give up on something else. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] House Numbers
Frederik - Very cool! My numbers look about right. (probably exactly right. ; ) ) Thanks, Jeff On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 4:05 PM, nicholas ingalls nicholas.inga...@gmail.com wrote: 6137 Looks good for me. I collect a *lot* of addresses simply by walking. Cheers, ingalls On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.orgwrote: Hi, I've made a program that counts how many house numbers someone has added. It uses object history, so it should be able to correctly award the count to the person actually adding the addr:housenumber tag. I don't yet know what will happen with this, but before I make further plans, here's the current list of all accounts that have added addresses, and how many: http://www.remote.org/**frederik/tmp/housenumbers.htmlhttp://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/housenumbers.html It would be great if you could find your name on the list and do a quick sanity check in your head whether this looks right or not. According to this list, 208 accounts have added more than 10k house numbers - if any one of them has actually surveyed that many houses they should be awarded a prize! A further ~ 1400 have done between 1k and 10k numbers, and ~ 4600 have done between 100 and 1k numbers. It is quite possible that the program has bugs so if you notice something strange, do mention it. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] what to do cues
Are there any tools that can tip users to what they could do in a particular map area? For example, for a given bb(zoomsome min) in a browser window, is there anything that says: - Hey, relative to other (or selected best-practice examples) areas like the one you're viewing, this area has: -- Fewer addresses - learn how to add -- Fewer buildings - learn how to add -- Fewer POIs - learn how to add -- POIs that would normally have buildings, but don't (e.g. schools) -- Zorro Ways - learn how to fix -- There's a park with no trails - learn how to add -- etc. In general, I'm thinking of something that will help new users answer the question, How can I help?, particularly for their local 'hood without sending them to too (too) many off-map web resources. Or even a suggestive OSM Inspector? - Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] parcel data in OSM
I am very sympathetic to what I sense to be Jason's (and Michael's and others') frustrations. It's quite clear there are a *very* large number of imports that have contributed to the body of data that is OSM (Incomplete list here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Import). Hopefully, this frustration hasn't gone to waste. : ) I think this thread has generated some thoughtful commentary (see: Ian's statements below a great email off-thread that Serge sent me) that I hope will be integrated into DWG-sanctioned guidelines for imports. For those not on imports@, I've sent a separate note to the DWG asking for clarification on where to look for their guidelines. - Jeff On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: Your original question was what should the exact criteria be for including an 'open space' parcel in OSM? and I think your answer is that there shouldn't be exact criteria. As frustrating as it is sometimes, there aren't exact criteria for anything in OSM. Having said that: you should map things that are verifiable by another mapper on the ground (parks, schools, hospitals, named open spaces) and you should not import generic parcel data. You agreed with that in your second sentence, but there were plenty of messages in this thread talking about it :). -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] parcel data in OSM
What's frustrating about distinguishing between useful not useful data imports is that there isn't much information available on the wiki other documentation about how to distinguish between the two. At least, I haven't been able to find much of the good information that's in the minds of the old-timers and the comments of this thread on the wiki or other documentation. So... people can take the time to come up with what they think is a good idea, to go looking for guidance, to follow what guidelines are available, to prep data, to find what seem to be relevant comparable past imports, and then be told in email that what they've been working on is unacceptable. I think this problem is fixable by transferring this knowledge onto the web pages, which is what some of us are trying to do with the wiki. In the mean time, I'm saying it can be frustrating to follow every rule you can find and then to be told you're still doing something incorrectly. FWIW, I'm also sympathetic to the frustrations of people who end up cleaning up after the imports that do go awry. - Jeff On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: There sure is a huge amount of imported data in OSM, but I don't see what's frustrating about distinguishing between useful and not-useful data imports. What we've been discussing here is what sort of data should be imported and if it's useful. On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org wrote: I am very sympathetic to what I sense to be Jason's (and Michael's and others') frustrations. It's quite clear there are a *very* large number of imports that have contributed to the body of data that is OSM (Incomplete list here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Import). Hopefully, this frustration hasn't gone to waste. : ) I think this thread has generated some thoughtful commentary (see: Ian's statements below a great email off-thread that Serge sent me) that I hope will be integrated into DWG-sanctioned guidelines for imports. For those not on imports@, I've sent a separate note to the DWG asking for clarification on where to look for their guidelines. - Jeff On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: Your original question was what should the exact criteria be for including an 'open space' parcel in OSM? and I think your answer is that there shouldn't be exact criteria. As frustrating as it is sometimes, there aren't exact criteria for anything in OSM. Having said that: you should map things that are verifiable by another mapper on the ground (parks, schools, hospitals, named open spaces) and you should not import generic parcel data. You agreed with that in your second sentence, but there were plenty of messages in this thread talking about it :). -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] parcel data in OSM
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: The open space layer from MassGIS was imported several years ago. This has encouraged people to map out many of the hiking trails. How do you make the connection from The MassGIS open space layer was imported to this has encouraged people to map out many the hiking trails? You're asserting a causal relationship where I see two unrelated events. Maybe it's only evident when you have local knowledge? ; ) Seriously, I could imagine a situation where handing people a map with parks outlined and asking them to fill in the trails with GPX tracks might be a bit less daunting than giving them a blank map and asking them to figure out park boundaries (usually something that you would defer to an expert to share) as well as the trails. But, that's just my guess - I'm curious what Jason's perspective might be. -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] Community for wiki maintenance
In addition to cleanup, is there anyone with familiarity with wiki tools like infoboxes, templates, classes, etc.? There are a variety of areas where adding some structure to wiki-contained information would be very helpful. Thanks, Jeff On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 8:18 AM, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.comwrote: I would be happy to help out with improving the wiki (and do this already). If anyone has any pages that they think could do with improving then please add them to the wiki cleanup page. Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] Proposed import: Alaska Boroughs/CPDs
Paul - I'm grateful for your efforts here. I'd like to use this import as a test case for further discussing our current import guidelines and policies. In particular: - Is 3 days a suitable duration for reviewing proposed imports? - Should there be an entry for this import on the Import Catalogue page? - Should the Alaska import use a separate account from other imports you've coordinated? Yes, these q's may sound a little snarky (hopefully in a friendly way ; ) ), but I am sincerely interested in resolving answers to these questions so we can help clarify guidance moving forward. (my take on the answers are: no (2 weeks minimum), no (that page is a disaster), and no clue.) Thanks, Jeff On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 3:58 AM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: From: Paul Norman [mailto:penor...@mac.com] Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Proposed import: Alaska Boroughs/CPDs Given that the comments received have been generally positive and the concerns raised are addressed I'm going to go ahead and start post- processing the data so I can merge it in as well as figuring out how the heck to identify all the existing imported borough/CPD boundaries, all tagged differently. Completed successfully. Because the boundaries are now much less nodey the boundaries went from about 170k nodes to 25k nodes. I added wikipedia=* and website=* tags as applicable. Wikipedia tags should help Nominatim determine importance when there are two places with the same name. As most states aren't adding counties at the rate that Alaska has added boroughs I doubt it'll come up again but I documented the SQL I used to identify and delete the existing boundaries without conflicts on deleted nodes at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Alaska/TIGER_Counties. Thanks for cleaning this up. Toby ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] shawnee county landuse
Given the extreme concern many people have about protecting the integrity of OSM data, why not just get a brief email from Riley County GIS stating just that? If there's no explicit statement clarifying this on the web, an email from a county official would be better safe than sorry, no? On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: While we didn't discuss it in terms of this specific law, this does match my conversation with the Riley county GIS department. As long as names aren't used, they do not have any problems with their information being used in OSM. Toby On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 8:36 AM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Well I have been looking into the law today, and I talked to the gis expert at the county. First of all we are not importing the peoples names, so anyone doing a mass mailing would be be just getting the address. The data that we imported is being bought by many companies he said. And the address information is being also available from the post as well. I am going to talk to more people in the county or the state, but my first contact said there should be no problem. All we are importing is the fact that there is a house there with that number and the zipcode and the type of landuse. On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Sorry, I did not finish that. I have already written to legal about it. Trulia and Zillow are using this data in full. I have stripped out all personal and contact information so I think that it should not fall under the no selling of contact info clause. The data is basically PD/ disclaimed http://www.snco.us/Ap/B_prop/Disclaimer.shtm the relevant law is : Kansas Open Records Act Statement By accessing this site, you are required to make the following certification pursuant to K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2): the requester does not intend to, and will not: (A) Use any list of names or addresses contained in or derived from the records or information for the purpose of selling or offering for sale any property or service to any person listed or to any person who resides at any address listed; or (B) sell, give or otherwise make available to any person any list of names or addresses contained in or derived from the records or information for the purpose of allowing that person to sell or offer for sale any property or service to any person listed or to any person who resides at any address listed. maybe you could say that you can use osm to create an address db, but i think we should look into it mike On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 3:39 PM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: 2. What is the license that this data is under? I did not see a copyright statement. This is basically PD data from the government. under the open data act the only restriction is that the http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_45/Article_2/#45-216 -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 Free Software Foundation Europe Fellow http://fsfe.org/support/?h4ck3rm1k3 -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 Free Software Foundation Europe Fellow http://fsfe.org/support/?h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Imports mailing list impo...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Mass Edits in the US
To me, imports are any bulk transfer of data from an existing data source into OSM. They can be big (10's of 1000's of nodes) or small (10-40 nodes); they can be mechanized, curated (reviewed by eye and hand), or otherwise. I'm not sure a different name will help other than to create a faux taxonomy. If it looks like a duck * How will this import improve the community mapping effort? This first question might best be asked last, as much of the answer to this questions should be contained in answers to questions about the targeted import data and planned import process. Plus, asking this first is fairly aggressive. Someone has taken the time to get involved in OSM, to identify a data set, and to come forward to ask permission. Clearly, they have some idea that this would be beneficial. Listen first. Hear them out. Presume innocence. Last, this is a qualitative, subjective question with widely varying opinions and interpretations across the OSM community. Why derail the review on first question? * Would it perhaps be better to mix and match this data at the rendering stage, rather than adding it to OSM, since this data is unlikely to be edited by anyone anyway? (An extreme example for this is height contours - nobody would dream of uploading them into OSM, yet many a novice will mistakenly think it has to go into OSM to be on the map, right?) * Would it perhaps be better to stick this data into a WMS/WFS/Snapshot server/... and offer it to the mapper community as an additional data source instead of importing it outright? This is a great question. OSM could help inform potential importers prepare for this question by describing what types of data OSM *is* good at - e.g. roads, buildings, addresses, POIs, land *areas*, whatever I think that, when confronted with new third-party data sources, many people have a knee-jerk let's import that reaction which experienced OSMers should counterbalance by asking questions like the above. To improve efficiency and reduce frustration, we should document those questions so that the people planning an import have a chance to prepare answers to the questions before submitting ideas to the committee. I'll be adding many of the questions from this recent thread to the wiki (not that that's the perfect answer... just to record the data outside of email archives...) On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Frederik, On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 11:16 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I'm keen on the import process including a number of exit lanes - it should ask questions like: questions like: We talked about this a bit last night; I agree. Many times an import isn't useful for one or another reason. It could be license related, or data quality, or the data doesn't belong in OSM, etc. I would be happy if your working group would embrace this idea and find a name that doesn't explicitly say imports - what we need is people who help with the responsible use of third party data for the benefit of OSM - which might occasionally mean an import, but many other things as well. Name ideas welcome. I was hoping that large automated imports (like the tiger expansion) would be included, but maybe you're saying they're separate problems? - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Mass Edits in the US
On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: This will give step by step guidance to those who want to import data, and offer the larger community time to review and provide feedback. On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 7:16 AM, Josh Doe j...@joshdoe.com wrote: Excellent idea and a good time to do it. Cleaning up the wiki around US-related imports should be among the first tasks, and bringing together all the lessons learned from imports to date. -Josh What is stopping these this from happening without a committee? I appreciate the interest in reducing import frustration all around, but there's nothing stopping the wiki from being cleaned up in a way that fosters group discussion and there's nothing stopping people from turning lessons learned into well-defined rules. From the above example, what's the appropriate amount of time for the community to review the data? That seems like something we could define without a committee. I'm not saying we shouldn't have a committee, but I believe process definition - and not organizational structure is our current biggest issue with imports. Serge - thanks for taking the lead in bringing this idea forward. - Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Discussion culture Re: Imports and Mass Edits in the US
I agree with Ian's points, but we shouldn't give up on email. I fear that for many potential mappers newcomers, even IRC might be daunting. (*ducks* while people say, If you can't do IRC, you shouldn't be allowed to edit a map...) Phone and hangouts require greater than your average amount of coordination than might be required for casual questions. Forums are probably better for async communications, but email is the most proximate client for most people. Community is often cited as one of the primary goals of OSM. If we want to make it a community that's appealing for others to join, every community media - IRC, forums, email, phones, hangouts, meetups, etc. - should all be friendly. My suggestion? Follow the immortal words of Dalton from Road House, Be nice. There's no reason email can't be a friendlier environment. And, when people aren't being nice, they should be called out as exhibiting unacceptable behavior. A corollary of Ian's comments about the strengths of IRC, etc. is that people are unfriendlier on email because they can be. Unless we don't allow it. On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 10:19 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: On Dec 17, 2012, at 9:15 PM, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote: For my import, 80% of the useful feedback was off list in private emails because people don't want to deal with the rude behavior in the list. I made a bunch of decisions that might seem weird to people that just follow the list. But I assure you that I cared a whole lot what the 4 people who signed up actually help thought about all of the issues. This I find very interesting. To some extent it reflects my first impressions with OSM mailing lists. I know many people who are too daunted to subscribe, I find that is a shame. If it wasn't for friends in the offline world who got me started on OSM, I would have been way too intimidated by the lists to just jump in. Why is this? What can we improve? OSM is complex and the people willing to stick around long enough to know it are usually intimidating to the people who are new and uncertain about it. This imbalance is particularly strong on the mailing lists because it's so easy for a response to come off in the wrong way or for a huge number of people to respond in a flurry of OMG don't import that! Also, the asynchronous nature of the mailing list means pointless arguments are very easy to start and very hard to finish. I would much rather see people conversing in real time on IRC/phone/hangout where you're more immediately accountable for what you say or asking questions via the forums where it's a bit easier for threads to stay on topic. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] MassGIS Building Import - process
Paul - I've added a few comments and questions about changeset size and revert policies on the Import Guidelines Plan Outline wiki pages. Are there any recommended changeset size limits and/or revert plan practices? - Jeff On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 6:43 AM, nicholas ingalls nicholas.inga...@gmail.com wrote: If anyone has a problem relating to this I don't mind fixing it. The way to do it is simply to download all the data within the bounding box, then use either the search or the authors dialogue to select all the data uploaded by that particular user and remove. Then the data can be re-uploaded :) Cheers, ingalls On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 1:18 AM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: I notice that several of you are using uploads that involve 50k nodes per changeset. ** ** What is your revert plan if one of these long extended uploads gets interrupted? The JOSM reverter plugin will not handle this correctly. ** ** *From:* Jason Remillard [mailto:remillard.ja...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:12 PM *To:* talk-us@openstreetmap.org; impo...@openstreetmap.org *Subject:* [Talk-us] MassGIS Building Import - process ** ** Hi, I update the wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MassGIS_Buildings_Import It includes all of the emails from tonight. - The import account will be restricted to directly uploading the data. Any post fixes should be done with the normal account. - There will be a new upload tomorrow with simplified data, and the full massgis data osm replaced with an overlapping osm. This will be saved away for later incase anybody wants to do merges after this project is done. I will do Groton for sure Only two remaining issue - If we should restrict manual importing to a small group of people. I have gotten several feedback messages that letting everybody do it has ** ** turned out not to be a great idea on other imports. We are up to 5 people now, all of them have zillion changes to the map. This is not a problem yet. Honestly, I am not sure if people will be beating down the doors to help or not... - How hard do we work on the manual imports. Do we stop doing them if the data looks really good, and just run the script, or do we keep doing the manual imports until we tire of it. Running the script sooner, gets the map better quicker, and lighter OSM users can probably handle cleaning up the small 1/500 errors. After this, I think we are ready to roll this up and get to work. Thanks Jason. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] MassGIS Building Import - process
On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: 2. If you cannot be bothered to fix problems then why should others be? What is your plan for growing the community to a point where it can maintain the data you plan to dump onto OSM? What's an acceptable error rate? 0? What's the error rate for manual entry? I'd suggest that if Jason hits 1 error in 500 whatevers, that that's lower than manual entry. What are some specific examples of costs expected to be incurred by importing the building outlines the Massachusetts OSM community has identified? Could concerns about errors be addressed by a manual, building-by-building QA process that might address any error issues? What can he *do* to address your concerns? Rather than addressing the imports=good vs. imports=bad discussion, what are the steps Jason hasn't addressed that should be included in order to make sure that we are minimizing the potential for introducing problems into the OSM database. - Jeff ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Fixing shorelines
Muchas gracias!
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 7:49 AM, Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com wrote:
* Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org [2012-12-13 12:58 -0800]:
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com wrote:
I use tilestache to go between
JOSM's tile underlays and the ArcGIS REST interface).
Do you have a pointer to any docs of how to do this?
It's pretty simple. You use tilestache's URL template provider to proxy
requests to the REST server. It works as long as the server supports the
web mercator projection, which might be under any of the SRIDs 900913,
102113, 102100, 3785, or 3857. (The last is the current official code
from EPSG.) Here's what I use for Anne Arundel County's orthoimagery:
{
layers: {
AAOrtho2010: {
provider: {
name: url template,
template:
http://gis-world.aacounty.org/ArcGIS/rest/services/Ortho2010/MapServer/export?f=imagebboxSR=102113bbox=$xmin,$ymin,$xmax,$ymaxsize=$width,$heightformat=png24
},
preview: {
lat: 38.974,
lon: -76.595,
zoom: 10
}
}
}
}
For their vector-based data, I add `transparent=true` so I can overlay it
on aerial imagery:
AABasemap: {
provider: {
name: url template,
template:
http://gis-world.aacounty.org/ArcGIS/rest/services/Basemap/MapServer/export?f=imagebboxSR=102113imageSR=102113transparent=truebbox=$xmin,$ymin,$xmax,$ymaxsize=$width,$heightformat=png
},
}
___
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http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
--
Jeff Meyer
Global World History Atlas
www.gwhat.org
j...@gwhat.org
206-676-2347
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Fixing shorelines
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com wrote: I use tilestache to go between JOSM's tile underlays and the ArcGIS REST interface). Do you have a pointer to any docs of how to do this? -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] MassGIS Building Import - simplify
Does anyone have a good definition of overnoding for the purposes of OSM? Is it just whatever the algorithms for simplify line simplify way say is good with default parameters say? Thanks, Jeff On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, I would like to continue the discussion on the simplification of the MassGIS buildings in a new thread. In my town, there are 5427 buildings. 43,628 nodes, or 8 nodes per structure. I did a 0.25 meter simplify on the entire town, and the node count went down to 41,809. We are looking at an excess of 5%. 0.25 meter may seem tight, but consider that source data was from 30cm and 15cm per pixel, and I am sure the algorithms used do some kind of sub pixel interpolation. Until I can figure out how to do the simplification from my scripts, we will add instructions on the wiki on how to do a 0.25 meter simply on the source layer in JOSM first. Thanks Jason ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] MassGIS Building Import Start
I've added a link to this list from the Data Working Group's wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data_working_group#User_Blocks On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: From: Toby Murray [mailto:toby.mur...@gmail.com] Subject: Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] MassGIS Building Import Start I'm not sure if this page is actually linked to from anywhere but all account blocks and the reasons they were put in place are viewable by everybody on this page: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks It is linked from somewhere but I'm not sure where. Adding a more obvious link would be up to the rails developers but in all honesty I can't think of a good place to link it from. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] MassGIS Building Import Start
will not be included. First, MassGIS made no attempt at preserving the STRUCT_ID when they updated the data set to include the entire state. The MassGIS STRUCT_ID, is based on X,Y centroid, when they updated the building locations, all of the ids changed. Second, No actual scenario came up in the discussion on why somebody might want to link the OSM structure back to the MassGIS data. In fact, nobody could come up with a case where previous imports that did include the original id turned out to be useful to somebody. Thirdly, if somebody really, really does need to link the OSM building to the MassGIS source layer, they can always link them them based on the building centriods of the two sets, and to get even more precision, rolling the change sets back to the import time and doing a more exact match will always be possible. Basically, the STRUCT_ID is redundant with the actual building geometry. Lastly, including the STRUCT_ID is not free. It will be confusing to future mappers. What to do with the STRUCT_ID, when a building is moved, deleted, or copied/ pasted? The wiki will not have this tag documented, it will not be clear what it is for. If even one fix is not made because of confusion over the STRUCT_ID tag, we will have lowered the final quality of the map for no apparent benefit. *Credit* Credit to MassGIS will be included in all changeset comments. It will read as follows *Building Structures (2-D, from 2011-2012 Ortho Imagery) - Office of Geographic Information (MassGIS), Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Information Technology Division*. No source tag will be used on the buildings themselves. See talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2012-December/thread.html archive for a discussion. By including the credit in the change comment, it does not need to be managed by future mappers who will be correcting/improving on the data. For the people that want to know where specific data came from, the change history on the way will have all the needed information.* *** *Automated Import - Step 2 - Project Completion* Sometime after May 2013, the towns that have not been imported by hand or marked as skip will be imported directly by an automated script. This automated script will done under its own account. This script has not been written yet. - The import has been added to the catalog page. Omitting of the source tag, and massgis::id tag have already been discussed in talk-us. People where going both ways, but I would like to skip them at outlined above. However, we need help more than we need to get our way! If you feel strongly about the id and source tag, sign up to import a bunch of towns by hand and we can be made to change coarse. The user account has not been discussed yet. I am hoping to get some guidance. We are planning on using our own accounts on the hand imports. The automated import at the end of the project will get its own account, which I think is intention of the import guidlines wiki. If this is not acceptable, and we in fact do need our own account for each hand imported town, I will make a new OSM account, and give out its password out to everybody that asks for it to do the import. The last area I would like some help on. Could somebody look at the script in the data directory and verify that the MassGIS datum was correctly converted to the OSM datum. The output data is well aligned visually, but I have been warned in a private email that messing this up will results in 1 meter error, which may not be apparent with a visual inspection.*** * Thats it! Jason ___ Imports mailing list impo...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] MassGIS Building Import Start
IMO, the process by which blocks are placed, who does the asking of the user to follow the guidelines, and those with authority to block users needs to be documented and reviewed. If it already is, please provide a pointer. Strikes me as fairly ominous and potentially arbitrary. Can anyone point me to any documentation of this internal policing? On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:03 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: Imports which don’t follow the guidelines may be asked to stop or blocked. This includes imports where the appropriate community consultation wasn’t done, imports with legal problems, imports without a dedicated account, and various weird problems. ** ** Most cases are dealt with via a private message or a 0-hour block which forces them to log on to osm.org and read it. ** ** *From:* Jeff Meyer [mailto:j...@gwhat.org] *Sent:* Wednesday, December 12, 2012 6:56 PM *To:* Paul Norman *Cc:* Jason Remillard; impo...@openstreetmap.org; OpenStreetMap US Talk *Subject:* Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] MassGIS Building Import Start ** ** Paul - can you elaborate on the point about users being blocked if not using a dedicated account? ** ** The guidelines don't point this out it seems contrary to the spirit of there being no right way of doing things in OSM. (Not a policy I agree with, but que sera...). ** ** Who does the blocking? ** ** Thanks, Jeff ** ** -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] MassGIS Building Import Start
Paul - thanks for the link! I'll send a separate note to the DWG with my concerns. - Jeff On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Data_Working_Group ** ** *From:* Jeff Meyer [mailto:j...@gwhat.org] *Sent:* Wednesday, December 12, 2012 9:47 PM *To:* Paul Norman *Cc:* impo...@openstreetmap.org; OpenStreetMap US Talk *Subject:* Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] MassGIS Building Import Start ** ** IMO, the process by which blocks are placed, who does the asking of the user to follow the guidelines, and those with authority to block users needs to be documented and reviewed. If it already is, please provide a pointer. Strikes me as fairly ominous and potentially arbitrary. ** ** Can anyone point me to any documentation of this internal policing? ** ** On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:03 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: Imports which don’t follow the guidelines may be asked to stop or blocked. This includes imports where the appropriate community consultation wasn’t done, imports with legal problems, imports without a dedicated account, and various weird problems. Most cases are dealt with via a private message or a 0-hour block which forces them to log on to osm.org and read it. *From:* Jeff Meyer [mailto:j...@gwhat.org] *Sent:* Wednesday, December 12, 2012 6:56 PM *To:* Paul Norman *Cc:* Jason Remillard; impo...@openstreetmap.org; OpenStreetMap US Talk *Subject:* Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] MassGIS Building Import Start Paul - can you elaborate on the point about users being blocked if not using a dedicated account? The guidelines don't point this out it seems contrary to the spirit of there being no right way of doing things in OSM. (Not a policy I agree with, but que sera...). Who does the blocking? Thanks, Jeff ** ** -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Obtaining local govt GIS data (was: King County, Washington authorization)
I would highly encourage anyone who's pursuing these types of datasets to not be deterred by these statements force local authorities to confirm that this policy is indeed prohibitive. You can ask local authorities if the data will be opened or if they would release it for use in OSM under a license that is compatible with OdBL. You never know what people will say. And, even if you get an answer you don't like, the negative response can be a good reference for a follow on email to an elected commissioner, mayor, etc. asking how they view open data and the opportunity for greater public (yes, including commercial) use of publicly-funded data. I've started a very lame first draft of an email that could be used to ask for permission - please add to it, improve it, etc.: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sample_Data_Request - Jeff On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: On 12/11/2012 1:49 PM, Steven Johnson wrote: Interested to hear what experiences other mappers have had in other parts of the country. My county has virtually the same copyright, and sells a GIS DVD for $500. For the time being, I have given up the idea of any import - the biggest gain for me would be addresses, but other than that, not much; I don't care about buildings at the moment. I am keeping an eye out for any state legislation that might make taxpayer-funded GIS data public domain so that I can prod my local representatives to support it with confidence. __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] King County Data
No - not yet, but we should definitely take a look compare the two datasets for any potential differences. On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.uswrote: Jeff, Have you had a chance to look at the data from King County yet? Do they have more current addresses than Seattle? Seattle was as of 2009. Probably not much as changed as Seattle is pretty much built out, but there may have been some changes and additions. I remember the City Council approving skinny housing and detached accessory dwelling units (DADUs) or so called mother-in-law units. Not sure if they get their own house number. -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] King County, Washington authorization
All - FYI - King County Washington has authorized the use of their data in OpenStreetMap. No imports using this data (beyond possibly the Seattle Import) are currently planned, afaik. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#King_County.2C_Washington Regards, Jeff -- Forwarded message -- From: Horning, George george.horn...@kingcounty.gov Date: Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:05 PM Subject: RE: Recent Inquiry to King County Regarding King County's Data Policy To: Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org, Moses, Ann ann.mo...@kingcounty.gov Cc: Smith, Nick nick.sm...@kingcounty.gov Jeff – Yes, including the King County data disclaimers in the same manner as you are doing for the city of Seattle would be fine. Thanks for being conscientious about using the county’s data. When you have set up please send along a link. *George W. Horning* *King County GIS Center Manager* *_*__ *King County GIS Center* Department of King County Information Technology 201 South Jackson Street, Suite 706 Seattle, WA 98104-3855 *206-263-4801* FAX 206-263-3145 george.horn...@kingcounty.gov *From:* Jeff Meyer [mailto:j...@gwhat.org] *Sent:* Friday, December 07, 2012 10:26 AM *To:* Moses, Ann *Cc:* Smith, Nick; Horning, George *Subject:* Re: Recent Inquiry to King County Regarding King County's Data Policy Hi Ann - Thanks for your persistence on this topic! We (the local OSM group were just discussing the status of this request in email this morning. : ) Mr. Horning - Pleased to meet you. Regarding item #7, would including that statement on the OpenStreetMap contributors page meet that requirement? Here's a link to this page - you'll see the City of Seattle is using this page to meet their requirements for attribution. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#City_of_Seattle.2C_Washington There is a vibrant OpenStreetMap community in King County and we are all excited about the possibility for increasing the use of this public data. We just want to make sure we're doing it the right way. Any help you can provide with our efforts is greatly appreciated! Thanks, Jeff On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Moses, Ann ann.mo...@kingcounty.gov wrote: Dear Mr. Meyer, Based on your additional information, I was able to reach out to George Horning, King County’s GIS Center Manager. Mr. Horning recommended that I share the following link with you, which is available on the King County’s GIS Data Portal (http://www5.kingcounty.gov/gisdataportal/), and shows the King County GIS Center’s Terms and Conditions, which must be accepted by the user before they can download any data. Item 7 may be of particular interest in your situation. I have also included these terms and conditions at the end of this e-mail. While I am not sure if it would be applicable in your situation, I have also attached a copy of the form that is used by the King County GIS Center for individuals to request a custom data order. I hope this additional information helps! Note that I have included Mr. Horning as a “cc” on this e-mail. Please feel free to follow up directly with him regarding any additional questions you might have. Sincerely, Ann Moses King County Information Technology *Terms and Conditions* By accessing any data posted by King County (Data), you agree to these Terms of Use (Terms). These Terms may be updated or modified by King County at any time at its sole discretion. If you do not agree to these Terms, do not access the Data or download any material from it. 1. King County grants you a limited, revocable license to use, reproduce, and redistribute the Data in accordance with these Terms. 2. The Data is collected from various sources and will change over time and without notice. 3. The Data is provided to you on an AS IS and AS AVAILABLE and WITH ALL FAULTS basis without any warranty of any kind, express or implied, including without limitation the implied warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, accuracy and non-infringement, nor shall the distribution of this information constitute any warranty. 4. The Data is not intended to constitute advice nor is it to be used as a substitute for specific advice from a professional. You should not act (or refrain from acting) based upon information in the Data without independently verifying the information and, as necessary, obtaining professional advice regarding your particular facts and circumstances. 5. You use the Data at your own risk, and you assume the risk that the Data may provide incorrect information to you, as well as the risk that any material downloaded by you may cause loss of data or damage to your computer system. 6. King County and its officials and employees assume no responsibility or legal liability for the accuracy, completeness, reliability, timeliness, or usefulness of any information available from the Data nor do they represent
Re: [Talk-us] MassGIS building conversion
I would highly encourage retaining them. (of course! : ) ) Unless there's another plan for retaining some association, it could be very helpful in the future for referencing between OSM and MassGIS records. And... maybe there's other information in the Mass records that an OSMer might want to look up. There are other efforts to index buildings worldwide (outside of OSM, which does this in a way), such as the Built Works Registry ( http://builtworksregistry.wordpress.com/) that might also benefit from this. And, if/when semantic information is available, or until there's some sort of UUID for buildings, this storage could prove useful. My 2 cents... On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: Hi Paul - On Dec 10, 2012, at 6:06 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: Any future work with the data after it's imported will have to handle buildings without IDs. I included IDs in two of my imports and have found them useless. I think that without a clear plan to use them (i.e. one with code) you shouldn't be including government department specific metadata like this. How specifically did you find them useless? I mean was it just that to your knowledge nobody's using them or is there something inherently broken in the case of your imports (e. g. those id's change outside of OSM and hence can't be used as reference). Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Know of a local user group? Update the page!
Noticing how many of these user groups host sites outside of OSM, is there any update on making the OSM wiki more social / functional for local area community building? (followup to SOTM birds of a feather discussion) Seems suboptimal to have so much out of band activity without greater cross-community OSM social networking. Not saying it's broke, just could be better. : ) - Jeff On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: Hey everyone - If you're running / aware of a user group in your town, I'd love to ask you for a quick minute to update this page - thank you! http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_States Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Know of a local user group? Update the page!
Paul - good points. I said wiki and meant the Social elements of the OSM site - e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/pnorman. Agreed - standard wikis aren't the best for community building. -Jeff On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: I’d say the wiki is likely the least used of the various channels for local OSM communities. Because as part of the DWG I’ve had to contact local communities in various ways I’ve seen (in some kind of rough order resembling popularity) ** ** **- **Mailing lists **- **OSM.org forums **- **Facebook **- **Google groups **- **Other forums ** ** I don’t see the wiki used very often and I don’t think the wiki format is well-suited for a community to use to communicate. ** ** *From:* Jeff Meyer [mailto:j...@gwhat.org] *Sent:* Monday, December 10, 2012 3:38 PM *To:* Alex Barth *Cc:* talk-us@openstreetmap.org Talk *Subject:* Re: [Talk-us] Know of a local user group? Update the page! ** ** Noticing how many of these user groups host sites outside of OSM, is there any update on making the OSM wiki more social / functional for local area community building? (followup to SOTM birds of a feather discussion) ** ** Seems suboptimal to have so much out of band activity without greater cross-community OSM social networking. ** ** Not saying it's broke, just could be better. : ) ** ** - Jeff ** ** ** ** On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: Hey everyone - If you're running / aware of a user group in your town, I'd love to ask you for a quick minute to update this page - thank you! http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_States Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ** ** -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] MassGIS building conversion
Frederik - one question I have about changeset tags and things like correspondence tables - how easy will it be for people to discover that this data even exists? How will they know to look for it? Will they need to be software developers? For example, will a GIS expert from the state of Massachusetts who comes across OSM know to look for this information? - Jeff On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 12/11/2012 01:04 AM, Paul Norman wrote: Lots of people include IDs because they think they might be useful but very seldom are they actually used. I can second that. I have witnessed many imports painstakingly preserving the ID (because, after all, most of us are IT people and our brains are hard-wired to think that ID numbers *must* be useful - you know, you can cross reference things and stuff with IDs!) but I've yet to see anyone doing something useful with them. I have never seen anyone who actually imported IDs and had a plan when asked - inevitably, the answer was it might be useful someday, I don't know. Now one of the things we say we want to do is offer data for unexpected uses so it may sound short-sighted to throw out an ID just because you cannot envisage a good use for it at this point in time. On the other hand, preserving an ID in the database might send the wrong signal to mappers. Are they allowed to change something that has an official GIS ID? What if they split or merge objects that carry such an ID? Will their changes be overwritten later if they don't remove the ID? Etc. My suggestion would be to not import the ID, but create a correspondence table during import (imported object with ID #1234 as way #2345). Since any import has to be properly documented anyway, the list can be stored with the other logs/documentation. If one should really want to follow up on this later, one can check if the objects still exist and haven't been modified, and then update/amend them or do whatever other useful thing the ID enables one to do, without polluting the database or puzzling mappers. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] MassGIS building conversion
Hi Jason - Great to hear about the import. Sounds like some interesting data! Have you taken a look through the import checklist at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines? I've recently made some updates would love to have you walk through those steps to QA them. Also - it looks like there's already a MASSGIS import listed in the Import Catalog at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue. That project is found at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MassGIS, but I didn't see your name on that page, so it may be from a prior or older dataset import. If you follow the checklist, and set up a new import Wiki page, I think you'll end up answering most (if not all) of Serge's questions and we'll have (a) some good feedback on the import processes, and (b) an easier-to-find record of your answers. This may seem like some excess overhead, but it will help ensure that we're taking full advantage of past knowledge helping others learn from your experiences. Thanks! Jeff On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Everybody, Hi Jason! Last week the Massachusetts mapping department (MassGIS) released data for all of the buildings in the state. http://www.mass.gov/anf/research-and-tech/it-serv-and-support/application-serv/office-of-geographic-information-massgis/datalayers/structures.html I don't see a license related to this data, only a copyright notice on the page. Is there a separate license somewhere that says this data is usable? Since it is likely that next year we will be importing this data into OSM to support addresses, I figured it would be useful to convert the files to OSM format and share them. What is the script you're plannng to use for conversion? What is your mapping scheme? What is your plan regarding conflation with existing data? What is your plan regarding updates? - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Role of the Wiki
Hi Charlotte - Welcome thanks for speaking up - I believe many new members share your concerns those concerns should be addressed. I'm glad to see you've signed up for the Welcome Working Group. I'm not sure if the community is ready to implement your suggestions, as they are big big big : ), but I'm hopeful the WG will think of some ways to better serve the needs of newbies and then organize a plan to implement those methods. Looking forward to seeing what comes of it! Thanks, Jeff On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Charlotte Wolter techl...@techlady.comwrote: Martijn, ****Your reply illustrates what is wrong with with OSM's approach to giving members, especially new ones, the tools they need. ****The attitude that that information is there if you are willing to look for it is very flawed. Any organization that wants to be inclusive and to encourage others to participate needs to provide them with information that is definitive and easy to access. Otherwise, OSM runs the danger of being an exclusive club of insiders who know all the secrets, while everyone else is essentially left out of the party. ****Long-term, this will lead to OSM's demise. ****OSM needs to add a lot more people, if it is to meet its goal of making a feature-rich accurate map of the world. But the idea that a newer member should be willing to search through 10 to 12 information sources to find out how to map works completely counter to that goal. ****We need to create a Wiki that everyone can understand, use and reply on. ****I propose that we create a definitive wki, overseen by a working group. This would not mean that the wiki never would change. But it would enable a reliable, source of information for newcomers and, I believe, would greatly improve map quality. Charlotte Wolter X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 97.74.135.183 Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AswBAGuuv1BZELOWlGdsb2JhbABEgmy7MQgWDgEBAQEJCwkJFAQjgh4BAQEEAQEBNwYBBQoeBAcBAgECAQIGAQYFCwMKHggIAwEdAQUBDAEFARwGEwUPh2oDDwEDCKNhjy2FWg2JTgEFDItCaQuENgOIX4IqhRqDMliBVoEcihuDMBYphDOBTA DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=6APdrewqDZZdLC2COWmiXxbtOSRGw63NurY1elHBvfo=; b=lST4mlqEBn+pAkhJag1xnpsZ1OAkX0Lv2LPCuL37JcwGtcCbPPrIDpaWQ/leEhGRaL 4XD/AB6fXFN4UbSI68Rh8QnAJG8TyOcaQeYwwXmSlM5VPw6ZgduXiY6b1miSA2AYVEDd mpKo3/1JPkE4E860JkpMqNXpboUnX7MG7Yme1RAmq0SROrBpt3kQm7bRu7CAdcNBwCfL j7x+JY9bLiVntNzthGdpg27PEzEAIbwbu0GdV+k3XJQ0LyXXH6HZd0NhcJDUVpHmShwT B1lFEVXZ56PebFnaPne+GF2+zjQi+9VuCSX1T5BT68QlVPMiZTGdXwEjZjyWy8talGf0 D4Bg== From: Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 13:31:09 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: P4ZS_exVjnbwoWPY7qx6us3fr34 To: Scott Rollins organ...@gmail.com Cc: OpenStreetMap Talk Mailing List t...@openstreetmap.org, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com, Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org, OpenStreetMap US Talk talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Role of the Wiki X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA talk-us.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribetalk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us List-Post: mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org talk-us@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=helptalk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribetalk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe No place to learn what to do? The wiki may be overwhelming, sometimes outdated and incorrect, or even a vehicle for personal opinions on tagging and whatnot, but there are definitely resources to help you get started. All OSM editors have useful presets for common features, you can't really go wrong with those. The Map Features page[1] describes widely used common tags. learnosm.org is there to guide you through first steps in OSM. And if you're looking for help or if you don't feel confident about your edits, there's these and other mailing lists, IRC, help.osm.org and forum.osm.org. OpenStreetMap US hosts regular Virtual Mappy Hours you can join from anywhere. There's Facebook, LinkedIn and Google+ pages where helpful members are always willing to answer questions. Some of these resources may require a little effort on your part, and they may not all be as well advertised or interconnected as they should be, but you have to realize that OpenStreetMap is eternally a work in progress, run entirely by volunteers who are working really hard
[Talk-us] Seattle Address Import Redux
All - Thanks for the detailed, thorough, and helpful response to the prior email on subject. I probably should have made a couple things more clear before: - This is not intended to be an automated import - We are not planning to rush into anything quickly On that note, I've put together a more detailed plan on the wiki made some updates to various import-related wiki pages. I've tried to address and respond to all questions that have been asked so far. (Even if there may be some disagreement...) Please take a look at any of these and let us know how they can be improved (here, on the wikis, or in the wiki discussion pages, etc.). Plan: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Seattle_Import Import Checklist (Updated): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#A_checklist Plan outline (taken from the above plan): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Plan_Outline Data request email template: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sample_Data_Request These updates are just first steps could use assistance and improvement, especially if we plan to cover all of the addresses in the world. : ) As for last night's meeting, we had a great crew of 11 OSM'ers, none of whom had been involved for more than a year, several of whom have some python fu, at least 1 ringer developer, and all of whom were from different neighborhoods. The beer was copious and we had a most unwelcome trivia night announcer blasting our ears out. It was a night that may live in ear-ringing infamy. Regards, Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[OSM-talk] Role of the Wiki
Hi - N00b question here: What's the role of the wiki as a source of information in the OSM community? In my brief period here, I've been told things like this: - For tags: RTFW - For relations: do NOT read the wiki HELL YES read the wiki - Imports: the wiki's out of date (Also - I've received information off IRC that conflicts with both email wiki) In general, is there a method to when the wiki is or is not relevant? I'm hoping it's relevant as OSM continues to grow - reading through old email archives isn't super efficient (or clarifying). Thanks, Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Role of the Wiki
The info about tagging is helpful, but I'm also curious about the role of other parts of the wiki, too. The sounding normative vs. being normative distinctions is... subtle? to the under-initiated. On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:56 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: Roland Olbricht writes: In general: the wiki is only descriptive, but often it sounds normative. It is a good idea to - use tags or tag keys that have been used quite often http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/ - search the wiki for keywords of the thing to tag - read the relevant pages and take them as advice, not as a law - if the pages don't make sense to you or don't match, ask at http://help.openstreetmap.org - add an additional, new tag if the often used tags don't describe the situation appropriately My rule of thumb is: 1) If the wiki describes a tag, tag according to the description. 2) If the wiki is silent on a tag, then feel free to add it. 3) If the wiki describes something, and you think there's a better way, then feel free to tag that way, but follow rule #1 and #2. 4) But never change what the wiki says, because the people who came before you followed rules #1, #2, and #3. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-us] Fwd: City of Seattle imports
FYI - it has been suggested I forward this to talk-us. Apologies for missing the cc: on the front end. Please advise of any concerns. I expect that we will put out an update on the status of our plans after tomorrow night's meeting, so we are still a bit away from starting the import process there will be time to provide further input. Regards, Jeff -- Forwarded message -- From: Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org Date: Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:30 PM Subject: City of Seattle imports To: impo...@openstreetmap.org Cc: Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us All - The city of Seattle has recently granted permission to use data found at data.seattle.gov in OpenStreetMap. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#City_of_Seattle.2C_Washington A group of Seattle OSM'ers (led by Cliff Snow) are getting together to discuss the methods for importing and double-checking the information. http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Seattle/events/93524692/ The current plan is to focus on addresses and building outlines. Sources are currently suggested to be tagged as: source:addr=data.seattle.gov source:path=data.seattle.gov so as to accomodate other sourcing information for those points and ways, as appropriate. Data has been converted from shape to osm using pnorman's ogr2osm python scripts and some translation instructions Cliff has put together. At the meeting, we will discuss concerns about the import, methods of curating the data, how to divide up the work, and how to properly track data created through this import. A cursory review of the data has identified a variety of issues: e.g. non-existent addresses, misplaced addresses, including buildings that no longer exist, etc. So, we are not planning to just do a big bulk dump of information. More news to follow. Please advise of any concerns. Thanks, Jeff -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
