Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
From: Alex Barth [mailto:a...@mapbox.com] Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark My initial writeup could have been clearer: This RFC _does_ seek to replace the currently recommended line (c) OpenStreetMap contributors linking to http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright with a visual mark linking to a future http://openstreetmap.org/contributors. Examples of the visual mark can be found on http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/examples.html and the suggested /contributors page can be found at http://yhahn.github.com/byosm. osm.org/copyright would be linked from osm.org/contributors in the future, more below. I question if the hammer is a notice ... reasonably calculated to make any Person ... aware that the Content was obtained from the Database ... and that it is available under [ODbL]. The example notice for satisfying 4.3 is Contains information from DATABASE NAME, wich is made available here under the Open Database License (ODbL) I've cc'ed legal-talk@ because if this is even allowable is a legal question. Regardless I'm not in favour. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Alex Yes, there is at least a handful of contributors have had the link specified in discussion or/and agreement. While it is unlikely that it was put in writing that it should be one click away from the map, it would seem to be rather devious to simply move it without at least consultation. On top of that there is a vocal group that thinks that the attribution and licence presentation as it is now is not prominent enough, moving it further away is undoubtedly going to be opposed. One thing the work leading up to the licence change showed was that how we document and administrate imports and other data sources doesn't scale and leads to a mass of essentially undocumented (for example attribution requirements) and orphaned imports. So yes I believe we will need to change and merge both attribution locations, but simply merging the two lists is not going to address the underlying issues (which IMHO not difficult to get a handle on). Simon Am 15.01.2013 23:15, schrieb Alex Barth: Frederik - On Jan 11, 2013, at 12:03 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: the copyright page we're using now might be better suited for that, not least because many third parties who give us their data are promised attribution via that page and it might not be good to put that behind too many clicks. I'd like to understand better, have these parties been promised the /copyright location for credits? How do they wind up on there vs. on the wiki? Is there any leeway to merge them into (a better) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors and move them a click away from the page on OSM that's linked from maps? Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Thanks again everyone for reviewing and weighing in. I'll try to summarize feedback here and identify adjustments and open decisions. I've added all I'm seeing actionable right now to the pull request on OSM.org [1]. I'm not aiming to close down the thread for good here, so please respond if I'm missing anything or if clarifications bring up additional suggestions. My next actions are to work with Saman (copied) on first adjustments based on feedback here. While many suggested improvements, I am hearing general agreement to further pursue this proposal and work on implementing it. ## Clarifications My initial writeup could have been clearer: This RFC _does_ seek to replace the currently recommended line (c) OpenStreetMap contributors linking to http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright with a visual mark linking to a future http://openstreetmap.org/contributors. Examples of the visual mark can be found on http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/examples.html and the suggested /contributors page can be found at http://yhahn.github.com/byosm. osm.org/copyright would be linked from osm.org/contributors in the future, more below. This is intricately linked to the goal of this proposal being to better promote OSM's openness on any OSM based map by: - making it more compelling to click through to OSM - providing a real entry point to understanding and working with OSM on the destination page ## Hammer mark This has probably been the most discussed issue :) There have been multiple voices expressing concern with the suggested hammer-in-teardrop mark. The main ones were: 1. It should have some textual component saying OpenStreetMap or OSM 2. It should be more prominent 3. It is not unique/compelling enough Points 1 and 2 are easy adjustments, 3 is the tough one. I do sense we have agreement on a visual element instead of just a text line but we're not quite excited about the hammer. I'd love to follow up on this topic separately, rehashing how we got to the current mark and suggesting alternatives. ## Terminology: Contributor mark vs e. g. Attribution mark Some have pointed out that 'attribution mark' might be a more accurate name. That might be, I don't want to change up at the moment but definitely a discussion to be had if ever we use this term more officially on openstreetmap.org. ## Legal requirement As the page osm.org/contributors is to be the first one linked from a map it needs to fulfill legal requirements. I suggest we adjust the text on osm.org/contributors to explicitly reference ODbL and link to an updated openstreetmap.org/copyright. https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180#issuecomment-12293006 ## Attributions There are currently attributions to specific data sources on http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright (Austria to United Kingdom). These need to be accomodated on `/contributors`. I see this as an opportunity to add an important facet to `/contributors`. https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180#issuecomment-12333486 ## Refine message There were suggestions to focus the message more on encouraging potential mappers. I think that's a good idea. One way of doing this could be to replace Learn more about OSM with Get started editing. That would be ideal, there is obviously the problem of not really having a spot to link to to 'just get started mapping'. Another one is to just tweak the language we're using. https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180#issuecomment-12333756 ## Design There were comments on the design being heavy on pictures and not using the current OpenStreetMap.org template. I'm thinking these are good things. With adjustments, I'd love to keep it this way. The pictures help us communicate that OSM is created by many many, many individuals, the full screen page allows us to focus the message. And yes, there is scrolling before hitting the links. This is good as we'll want to have the space for a couple of points to get across before people jump off. It's not the case that we've got great introductory properties to link to right now :) In the future this could change: E. g. as soon as we have great introductory material we could link this more prominently Get started mapping above the fold. Or we could come up with a variation of the page that offers a link into an editor placing you right where you left the map. That said, we should work on taking a stronger queue from the overall osm.org appearance to link this ad stronger to OpenStreetMap: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180#issuecomment-12333532 [1] Related pull request on osm-website: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180 On Jan 11, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: Over here at MapBox we see a need to better communicate the open and contributory philosophy of OpenStreetMap on our maps. In striving to build a true data commons
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
From: Alex Barth [mailto:a...@mapbox.com] Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark My initial writeup could have been clearer: This RFC _does_ seek to replace the currently recommended line (c) OpenStreetMap contributors linking to http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright with a visual mark linking to a future http://openstreetmap.org/contributors. Examples of the visual mark can be found on http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/examples.html and the suggested /contributors page can be found at http://yhahn.github.com/byosm. osm.org/copyright would be linked from osm.org/contributors in the future, more below. I question if the hammer is a notice ... reasonably calculated to make any Person ... aware that the Content was obtained from the Database ... and that it is available under [ODbL]. The example notice for satisfying 4.3 is Contains information from DATABASE NAME, wich is made available here under the Open Database License (ODbL) I've cc'ed legal-talk@ because if this is even allowable is a legal question. Regardless I'm not in favour. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Hi, may I throw a related, but slightly different concept, out there for discussion? I think some of the confusion between contributor mark and attribution mark is that they may be entirely different things. From the design I have seen so far it seems indeed more like a contributor mark than an attribution mark, but you are planning on using it as an attribution mark I'll give an example to try and clarify what I mean by contributor mark as opposed to attribution mark: Wikipedia have OpenStreetMap integration into articles. I.e. if you open a geocoded wikipedia article you can click in the top right corner on either the globe symbol in e.g. the English Wikipedia or the textual link Map in e.g. the German Wikipedia which opens an inline map into the article showing the place based on an OSM map. There were considerations on adding an edit link to the map, as it would a) be fitting to Wikipedia and b) help OSM gain new contributors as it can capitalize on the huge user base of Wikipedia. However, one concern with adding an edit link was to explain to the Wikipedia user why after clicking on the edit link they suddenly landed on this odd page called OpenStreetMap which wants a new user name and password from you. How does this relate to Wikipedia where they actually wanted to be? What is the concept behind OpenStreetMap? How and what can I edit? So the idea was to redirect first time map editors (not logged into OSM and don't have an OSM cookie) via an explanatory contributor page before sending them to the editor page. To Wikipedia users the concept of users editing the content is already familiar, but on many other third party sites that use OSM maps, the relation between the page they came from and OSM is likely even less clear to users. Therefor having people redirect through a explanatory page would be even more helpful. I think the contributor page as presented here could be a really nice basis for such a page. So instead of replacing attribution, the contributor mark is an additional component acting as a well recognizable edit this map button with the underlying explanatory page for new contributors. OSM could then encourage everyone who uses OSM maps to add this contributor mark / button to really try and capitalize the growing share of OSM users into new mappers by providing a more user friendly integration. To Website providers this would also be a benefit, as with including a few lines of simple html / javascript, they can help improve the maps they are using and identify them selves as real supporters to the OSM movement. In that case imho the size and design of the current proposed contributor mark is much more appropriate than as an attribution mark Thoughts? Kai -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/RFC-OSM-contributor-mark-tp5743962p5744950.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On 16/01/13 19:08, Alex Barth wrote: ## Terminology: Contributor mark vs e. g. Attribution mark Some have pointed out that 'attribution mark' might be a more accurate name. That might be, I don't want to change up at the moment but definitely a discussion to be had if ever we use this term more officially on openstreetmap.org. I think the problem is that you are already locking in the terminology by using contributors in the URL of the landing page. In fact that's my main problem with the terminology - the proposed content is not at all what I would expect to see on a page with that URL as the URL suggests some sort of list of contributors. ## Design There were comments on the design being heavy on pictures and not using the current OpenStreetMap.org template. I'm thinking these are good things. With adjustments, I'd love to keep it this way. The pictures help us communicate that OSM is created by many many, many individuals, the full screen page allows us to focus the message. And yes, there is scrolling before hitting the links. This is good as we'll want to have the space for a couple of points to get across before people jump off. It's not the case that we've got great introductory properties to link to right now :) In the future this could change: E. g. as soon as we have great introductory material we could link this more prominently Get started mapping above the fold. Or we could come up with a variation of the page that offers a link into an editor placing you right where you left the map. That said, we should work on taking a stronger queue from the overall osm.org appearance to link this ad stronger to OpenStreetMap: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180#issuecomment-12333532 The scrolling itself is not the problem so much as the lack of visual cues that you can scroll - as I said on IRC it was only after you started talking about a link that I couldn't see that I realised there was anything below the fold as the giant picture had made it look like a fixed page. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Isn't the purpose of OSM and Contributors to credit or attribute the source of the map tile data? e.g. if FourSquare puts the OSM mark on their maps, they aren't showing that OSM has contributed to the 4sq map, they are attributing the source of their tiles to OSM. The fact that it links to, or mentions, OSM contributors isn't what this statement or mark is about. No one would call (c) Google.com a contributor mark. The fact that we elect to require reference to Contributors in our credits or to discuss Contributors on our copyright is something we choose to do because, well, because OSM rocks. My elaborate 2 cents... On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 16/01/13 19:08, Alex Barth wrote: ## Terminology: Contributor mark vs e. g. Attribution mark Some have pointed out that 'attribution mark' might be a more accurate name. That might be, I don't want to change up at the moment but definitely a discussion to be had if ever we use this term more officially on openstreetmap.org. I think the problem is that you are already locking in the terminology by using contributors in the URL of the landing page. In fact that's my main problem with the terminology - the proposed content is not at all what I would expect to see on a page with that URL as the URL suggests some sort of list of contributors. ## Design There were comments on the design being heavy on pictures and not using the current OpenStreetMap.org template. I'm thinking these are good things. With adjustments, I'd love to keep it this way. The pictures help us communicate that OSM is created by many many, many individuals, the full screen page allows us to focus the message. And yes, there is scrolling before hitting the links. This is good as we'll want to have the space for a couple of points to get across before people jump off. It's not the case that we've got great introductory properties to link to right now :) In the future this could change: E. g. as soon as we have great introductory material we could link this more prominently Get started mapping above the fold. Or we could come up with a variation of the page that offers a link into an editor placing you right where you left the map. That said, we should work on taking a stronger queue from the overall osm.org appearance to link this ad stronger to OpenStreetMap: https://github.com/**openstreetmap/openstreetmap-** website/pull/180#issuecomment-**12333532https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180#issuecomment-12333532 The scrolling itself is not the problem so much as the lack of visual cues that you can scroll - as I said on IRC it was only after you started talking about a link that I couldn't see that I realised there was anything below the fold as the giant picture had made it look like a fixed page. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Isn't the purpose of OSM and Contributors to credit or attribute the source of the map tile data? Maybe, maybe not. More importantly - the fact that there's a discussion what this mark tries to communicate means that it fails to do it properly in the first place. At first glance I thought it was just sort of a banner to promote OSM but if it is to replace the legal attribution then it's not really doing that job. I support Kai's idea about separating the two functions. I like the Wikipedia example. It would be really cool to have a widely known edit button/symbol/mark sitting in the corner of embedded maps to show that the map is a living thing that can be corrected, enriched etc. I also agree with Tom - naming stuff *is* very important and is definitely not a side issue. Right now contributors mark suggests at least two different things - list of contributors or some kind of award for being a contributor and neither of them is true... This stuff should really be dead simple and intuitive, if you have to think about it as a user, explain, discuss then forget it, it won't work in the wild. Of course it's always harder to communicate more with less but that's the main challenge I see here... Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
The edit concept is very interesting. This was something crossing my mind as well when writing up the response to design feedback today. If we had very direct instructions for editing in OSM, we could push users pretty directly to that. The main problem for using the edit paradigm as a guiding light for the mark proposed here is that many maps made of OSM data aren't actually live updated or not updated at all. This led us to throw away an early version of the mark which used an edit pen. I hope to share more of our previous mark designs soon in a follow up post, I think this is worthwhile fleshing out more. My second point is this: The central idea of this proposal is to promote OSM even if OSM is really just providing the data. I feel we won't get much pick up if we promote an additional element for maps that are produced works, ever more often on mobile, ever more often composed from mutliple sources. It's clear now that the hammer won't be an acceptable replacement to © OpenStreetMap contributors but I'm hoping we can come up with something that is all of the below: - satisfactory from a legal standpoint - attractive to click through - sticky as a symbol On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, may I throw a related, but slightly different concept, out there for discussion? I think some of the confusion between contributor mark and attribution mark is that they may be entirely different things. From the design I have seen so far it seems indeed more like a contributor mark than an attribution mark, but you are planning on using it as an attribution mark I'll give an example to try and clarify what I mean by contributor mark as opposed to attribution mark: Wikipedia have OpenStreetMap integration into articles. I.e. if you open a geocoded wikipedia article you can click in the top right corner on either the globe symbol in e.g. the English Wikipedia or the textual link Map in e.g. the German Wikipedia which opens an inline map into the article showing the place based on an OSM map. There were considerations on adding an edit link to the map, as it would a) be fitting to Wikipedia and b) help OSM gain new contributors as it can capitalize on the huge user base of Wikipedia. However, one concern with adding an edit link was to explain to the Wikipedia user why after clicking on the edit link they suddenly landed on this odd page called OpenStreetMap which wants a new user name and password from you. How does this relate to Wikipedia where they actually wanted to be? What is the concept behind OpenStreetMap? How and what can I edit? So the idea was to redirect first time map editors (not logged into OSM and don't have an OSM cookie) via an explanatory contributor page before sending them to the editor page. To Wikipedia users the concept of users editing the content is already familiar, but on many other third party sites that use OSM maps, the relation between the page they came from and OSM is likely even less clear to users. Therefor having people redirect through a explanatory page would be even more helpful. I think the contributor page as presented here could be a really nice basis for such a page. So instead of replacing attribution, the contributor mark is an additional component acting as a well recognizable edit this map button with the underlying explanatory page for new contributors. OSM could then encourage everyone who uses OSM maps to add this contributor mark / button to really try and capitalize the growing share of OSM users into new mappers by providing a more user friendly integration. To Website providers this would also be a benefit, as with including a few lines of simple html / javascript, they can help improve the maps they are using and identify them selves as real supporters to the OSM movement. In that case imho the size and design of the current proposed contributor mark is much more appropriate than as an attribution mark Thoughts? Kai -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/RFC-OSM-contributor-mark-tp5743962p5744950.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Apologies for being rhetorical and passive in my prior post. Maybe is incorrect. The statement (c) OpenStreetMap contributors _is definitely_ a required credit. See: http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright You are free to copy, distribute, transmit and adapt our data, as long as you credit OpenStreetMap and its contributors. The page then goes on to describe how to do this credit. This web page defines our implementation of ODBL para 4.3.(a). Up to now, I'm not talking only about the existing copyright markings and not about the teardrop / hammer mark But, Alex has stated that he *does* want to replace that statement with a mark (sounds cool to me), so he's suggesting we amend the copyright and license terms, which might be doable under para 4.3 of the ODBL referenced by Paul (http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/). In addition, Alex is suggesting that the mark link not the existing copyright statement, but to a different contributors page, which seems (to this caveman lawyer) less likely to adhere to para 4.3. The function of credit/attribution/notification that ODBL-derived data was a source for a Produced Work is a requirement of the ODBL. So, we have a requirement for at least 1 mark that references at least source copyright, etc. It seems like the options are: a) Add a better sense essence of contributors modifiability to the existing copyright notice. b) Add another mark (a) seems more feasible, as I don't think OSM-related Produced Works want to add multiple marks to a single map (or would we), but who knows? We definitely need Legal WG input here. On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Paweł Paprota ppa...@fastmail.fm wrote: Isn't the purpose of OSM and Contributors to credit or attribute the source of the map tile data? Maybe, maybe not. More importantly - the fact that there's a discussion what this mark tries to communicate means that it fails to do it properly in the first place. At first glance I thought it was just sort of a banner to promote OSM but if it is to replace the legal attribution then it's not really doing that job. I support Kai's idea about separating the two functions. I like the Wikipedia example. It would be really cool to have a widely known edit button/symbol/mark sitting in the corner of embedded maps to show that the map is a living thing that can be corrected, enriched etc. I also agree with Tom - naming stuff *is* very important and is definitely not a side issue. Right now contributors mark suggests at least two different things - list of contributors or some kind of award for being a contributor and neither of them is true... This stuff should really be dead simple and intuitive, if you have to think about it as a user, explain, discuss then forget it, it won't work in the wild. Of course it's always harder to communicate more with less but that's the main challenge I see here... Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Why is it clear that the hammer couldn't be a replacement for the OSM copyright? Has the Legal WG stated that a symbol that linked to our copyright license statements would not meet the requirements of the ODBL? Right now, I think we're all speculating. On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: The edit concept is very interesting. This was something crossing my mind as well when writing up the response to design feedback today. If we had very direct instructions for editing in OSM, we could push users pretty directly to that. The main problem for using the edit paradigm as a guiding light for the mark proposed here is that many maps made of OSM data aren't actually live updated or not updated at all. This led us to throw away an early version of the mark which used an edit pen. I hope to share more of our previous mark designs soon in a follow up post, I think this is worthwhile fleshing out more. My second point is this: The central idea of this proposal is to promote OSM even if OSM is really just providing the data. I feel we won't get much pick up if we promote an additional element for maps that are produced works, ever more often on mobile, ever more often composed from mutliple sources. It's clear now that the hammer won't be an acceptable replacement to © OpenStreetMap contributors but I'm hoping we can come up with something that is all of the below: - satisfactory from a legal standpoint - attractive to click through - sticky as a symbol On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, may I throw a related, but slightly different concept, out there for discussion? I think some of the confusion between contributor mark and attribution mark is that they may be entirely different things. From the design I have seen so far it seems indeed more like a contributor mark than an attribution mark, but you are planning on using it as an attribution mark I'll give an example to try and clarify what I mean by contributor mark as opposed to attribution mark: Wikipedia have OpenStreetMap integration into articles. I.e. if you open a geocoded wikipedia article you can click in the top right corner on either the globe symbol in e.g. the English Wikipedia or the textual link Map in e.g. the German Wikipedia which opens an inline map into the article showing the place based on an OSM map. There were considerations on adding an edit link to the map, as it would a) be fitting to Wikipedia and b) help OSM gain new contributors as it can capitalize on the huge user base of Wikipedia. However, one concern with adding an edit link was to explain to the Wikipedia user why after clicking on the edit link they suddenly landed on this odd page called OpenStreetMap which wants a new user name and password from you. How does this relate to Wikipedia where they actually wanted to be? What is the concept behind OpenStreetMap? How and what can I edit? So the idea was to redirect first time map editors (not logged into OSM and don't have an OSM cookie) via an explanatory contributor page before sending them to the editor page. To Wikipedia users the concept of users editing the content is already familiar, but on many other third party sites that use OSM maps, the relation between the page they came from and OSM is likely even less clear to users. Therefor having people redirect through a explanatory page would be even more helpful. I think the contributor page as presented here could be a really nice basis for such a page. So instead of replacing attribution, the contributor mark is an additional component acting as a well recognizable edit this map button with the underlying explanatory page for new contributors. OSM could then encourage everyone who uses OSM maps to add this contributor mark / button to really try and capitalize the growing share of OSM users into new mappers by providing a more user friendly integration. To Website providers this would also be a benefit, as with including a few lines of simple html / javascript, they can help improve the maps they are using and identify them selves as real supporters to the OSM movement. In that case imho the size and design of the current proposed contributor mark is much more appropriate than as an attribution mark Thoughts? Kai -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/RFC-OSM-contributor-mark-tp5743962p5744950.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On Jan 16, 2013, at 5:23 PM, Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org wrote: Why is it clear that the hammer couldn't be a replacement for the OSM copyright? Has the Legal WG stated that a symbol that linked to our copyright license statements would not meet the requirements of the ODBL? No idea about the legal viability of the hammer. I'm saying this more from gauging the overall excitement around the hammer. Saman and I are planning on sharing more the thinking behind the specific hammer mark and ideally come up with something better. Also: many have noted that there should be at least a textual reference to OpenStreetMap in the contributor mark, that's at least a given adjustment in my mind. Right now, I think we're all speculating. On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: The edit concept is very interesting. This was something crossing my mind as well when writing up the response to design feedback today. If we had very direct instructions for editing in OSM, we could push users pretty directly to that. The main problem for using the edit paradigm as a guiding light for the mark proposed here is that many maps made of OSM data aren't actually live updated or not updated at all. This led us to throw away an early version of the mark which used an edit pen. I hope to share more of our previous mark designs soon in a follow up post, I think this is worthwhile fleshing out more. My second point is this: The central idea of this proposal is to promote OSM even if OSM is really just providing the data. I feel we won't get much pick up if we promote an additional element for maps that are produced works, ever more often on mobile, ever more often composed from mutliple sources. It's clear now that the hammer won't be an acceptable replacement to © OpenStreetMap contributors but I'm hoping we can come up with something that is all of the below: - satisfactory from a legal standpoint - attractive to click through - sticky as a symbol On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:58 PM, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, may I throw a related, but slightly different concept, out there for discussion? I think some of the confusion between contributor mark and attribution mark is that they may be entirely different things. From the design I have seen so far it seems indeed more like a contributor mark than an attribution mark, but you are planning on using it as an attribution mark I'll give an example to try and clarify what I mean by contributor mark as opposed to attribution mark: Wikipedia have OpenStreetMap integration into articles. I.e. if you open a geocoded wikipedia article you can click in the top right corner on either the globe symbol in e.g. the English Wikipedia or the textual link Map in e.g. the German Wikipedia which opens an inline map into the article showing the place based on an OSM map. There were considerations on adding an edit link to the map, as it would a) be fitting to Wikipedia and b) help OSM gain new contributors as it can capitalize on the huge user base of Wikipedia. However, one concern with adding an edit link was to explain to the Wikipedia user why after clicking on the edit link they suddenly landed on this odd page called OpenStreetMap which wants a new user name and password from you. How does this relate to Wikipedia where they actually wanted to be? What is the concept behind OpenStreetMap? How and what can I edit? So the idea was to redirect first time map editors (not logged into OSM and don't have an OSM cookie) via an explanatory contributor page before sending them to the editor page. To Wikipedia users the concept of users editing the content is already familiar, but on many other third party sites that use OSM maps, the relation between the page they came from and OSM is likely even less clear to users. Therefor having people redirect through a explanatory page would be even more helpful. I think the contributor page as presented here could be a really nice basis for such a page. So instead of replacing attribution, the contributor mark is an additional component acting as a well recognizable edit this map button with the underlying explanatory page for new contributors. OSM could then encourage everyone who uses OSM maps to add this contributor mark / button to really try and capitalize the growing share of OSM users into new mappers by providing a more user friendly integration. To Website providers this would also be a benefit, as with including a few lines of simple html / javascript, they can help improve the maps they are using and identify them selves as real supporters to the OSM movement. In that case imho the size and design of the current proposed contributor mark is much more appropriate than as an attribution mark Thoughts? Kai -- View this message in
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
The current legal requirement is only about a text because no official icon was existing. If one is chosen, what prevents us to upgrade the requirements to leave the choice between the © OpenStreetMap contributors or the new chosen icon ? -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France - http://openstreetmap.fr/u/cquesthttp://openstreetmap.fr/u/christian-quest ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On Jan 16, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr wrote: The current legal requirement is only about a text because no official icon was existing. If one is chosen, what prevents us to upgrade the requirements to leave the choice between the © OpenStreetMap contributors or the new chosen icon ? That could work well. -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France - http://openstreetmap.fr/u/cquest ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Hi Christian, On 16.01.2013 23:33, Christian Quest wrote: The current legal requirement is only about a text because no official icon was existing. The current legal requirement is not about a text specifically; as Paul has written, the current legal requirement is: notice ... reasonably calculated to make any Person ... aware that the Content was obtained from the Database ... and that it is available under [ODbL]. It is not for us to upgrade these requirements (it would require Open Data Commons to issue a version 1.1 of their license with changed wording). What we could do is agree that a certain logo/icon/wording is reasonably calculated to make any person aware... and so on. OSMF does have a little bit of leeway there; if they were to say this counts then it would be hard for anyone to construct a case against it. However it is important to keep in mind that contributors have only authorized OSMF to redistribute their data under ODbL (via the contributor agreement), not under ODbL with any fancy interpretations that OSMF would like to add. If OSMF were to stray too far from the path, contributors could claim that OSMF violated the contributor agreement and OSMF's right to distribute the data was therefore void. I wouldn't want to go there! I think the reasonably calculated is is a relatively high hurdle. Especially when an icon is newly introduced, it can hardly be said to be reasonably calculated to make any person aware...! Personally, I think this is practically impossible without including at least the word OpenStreetMap spelled out in letters (if not ODbL 1.0 as well). Even our, relatively well-known, current logo would be a difficult sell as reasonably calculated because it isn't *so* well known. This does, however, border on the discuss in legal-talk where you're likely to find more expert answers. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On 16/01/13 22:33, Christian Quest wrote: The current legal requirement is only about a text because no official icon was existing. If one is chosen, what prevents us to upgrade the requirements to leave the choice between the © OpenStreetMap contributors or the new chosen icon ? To me the copyright symbol, ©, is understood worldwide to have a specific meaning, replacing it with a new made-up symbol loses the meaning completely. I do like the idea of a small, clickable icon to identify OSM, but I don't see how that replaces the well understood © symbol and attribution statement. I would be happy to reduce 'Openstreetmap' to 'OSM' for brevity. MapQuest have a small icon that they request people embed into any site using their Open map tiles (based on OSM data). I believe they follow its use to help them build stats or some such. It looks fine, but I add © Openstreetmap contributors too, as per the licence we spent so long struggling to implement. -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Why not keep the © Openstreetmap contributors bit and add a Report an issue / Add to the map type button or text? This would then link to a very simple page as proposed (but themed to better match OSMs brand) which also explains how to add a bug/notice using [1] and how to get more involved with editing using Potlatch2 / iD. Rob [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Tasks#OpenStreetBugs.2Fnotes_integration ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On 16.01.13 20:08, Alex Barth wrote: My initial writeup could have been clearer: This RFC _does_ seek to replace the currently recommended line (c) OpenStreetMap contributors linking to http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright with a visual mark linking to a future http://openstreetmap.org/contributors. Attribution (which is what you talk about) consists of naming the author and the license. Naming the author (expressis verbis: naming OpenStreetMap contributors) directly on the website is a good feature that shouldn't be omitted. It stays there on screenshots and leaves no doubt that it comes from OSM. BTW, I don't like your hammer drop symbol (even don't see an explanation for it). The link serves as the second thing: naming the license. This is twofold: - stating ODbL for the data - stating CC BY-SA for the map tiles (especially for the default ones) Of course, the link landing page (could read /copyright, /license -- /contributors for me seems not so good) could be made more pleasant, could be an overlay window etc. Naming (for Austria) Wien, Vbg. and Tirol (plus the wording!) on /copyright was requested by the CC BY license holders (which came from the fact that there already were such attributions). /al ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Frederik - On Jan 11, 2013, at 12:03 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: the copyright page we're using now might be better suited for that, not least because many third parties who give us their data are promised attribution via that page and it might not be good to put that behind too many clicks. I'd like to understand better, have these parties been promised the /copyright location for credits? How do they wind up on there vs. on the wiki? Is there any leeway to merge them into (a better) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors and move them a click away from the page on OSM that's linked from maps? Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Hi, On 15.01.2013 23:15, Alex Barth wrote: I'd like to understand better, have these parties been promised the /copyright location for credits? How do they wind up on there vs. on the wiki? Is there any leeway to merge them into (a better) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors and move them a click away from the page on OSM that's linked from maps? It's hard to say what is, or has been, promised. But we (=we the project, not we the OSMF) occasionally encounter potential data providers who have some sort of license that says you must provide attribution, without clearly saying where and how. Then we often explain OSM to them, saying you can't get attribution on the map, but your attribution will be in the object history and if you want we can put you on http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright which we ask people to link to when they use our data, and we ask them would that fulfil your demand for attribution? and if they say yes we can use their data. You'd have to check with LWG but I doubt that any of those listed on that page have been promised to be exactly one click away from the map; they probably have been promised to be listed on this page. Still it could be perceived as bad style if we move them to a less prominent place. I don't think that a Wiki page will do because the words on the copyright page are probably meant to be written exactly as they are there, and not subject to Wiki editing, for legal reasons. But that would really be something to discuss with the LWG. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Alex - for the recent King County and City of Seattle disclaimers, I explicitly pointed them to the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/** wiki/Contributors http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors, and asked if putting the disclaimers on that page would suffice. They said yes. I don't know if that means the wiki page is the right or best solution, just that it indisputably worked for 2 sources. My impression is that there's also a mismatch between import sources who *should* be listed (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Import) and those who actually are. I'd be glad to compare and update the attributions... assuming no one else is dying to do it! ; ) - Jeff On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 15.01.2013 23:15, Alex Barth wrote: I'd like to understand better, have these parties been promised the /copyright location for credits? How do they wind up on there vs. on the wiki? Is there any leeway to merge them into (a better) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/Contributorshttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributorsand move them a click away from the page on OSM that's linked from maps? It's hard to say what is, or has been, promised. But we (=we the project, not we the OSMF) occasionally encounter potential data providers who have some sort of license that says you must provide attribution, without clearly saying where and how. Then we often explain OSM to them, saying you can't get attribution on the map, but your attribution will be in the object history and if you want we can put you on http://www.openstreetmap.org/**copyrighthttp://www.openstreetmap.org/copyrightwhich we ask people to link to when they use our data, and we ask them would that fulfil your demand for attribution? and if they say yes we can use their data. You'd have to check with LWG but I doubt that any of those listed on that page have been promised to be exactly one click away from the map; they probably have been promised to be listed on this page. Still it could be perceived as bad style if we move them to a less prominent place. I don't think that a Wiki page will do because the words on the copyright page are probably meant to be written exactly as they are there, and not subject to Wiki editing, for legal reasons. But that would really be something to discuss with the LWG. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
When I started reading the proposal I liked the idea. Some icon to say I use OSM data behind this, and I'm proud! instead(well in addition to) the compulsory attribution. But the faded teardrop took me ages to find on the examples, and then I just though what, is that OSM?. It doesn't remind me of OSM at all (although to be fair, it's new and not in use yet). But it's small, not proud. I'm also with the majority of people that disliked marker/teardrop icons in previous design comps. (although I did like the 'armpit' design) Markers are what people can add to OSM, not what it is. I like the simplicity of the page the hammer tear links to, and the presentation of the 3 points. Although I'm not a fan of 80% of the screen being a photo, I'm also not a designer. Has it been thought how the photos would be chossen, and when/how they would be updated? Is it going to be another task like Image of the Week and Map Task of the Month? -- Gregory o...@livingwithdragons.com http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logos#Logo_design_competitions Am 14.01.2013 19:12, schrieb Jeff Meyer: Are there any links to past design comps? Past teardrops? Dare I ask, past armpits? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Simon - thanks! But... I didn't see any teardrops or armpits there - is there another place to look for past teardrops? On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/Logos#Logo_design_**competitionshttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logos#Logo_design_competitions Am 14.01.2013 19:12, schrieb Jeff Meyer: Are there any links to past design comps? Past teardrops? Dare I ask, past armpits? __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
There's some teardrop designs on this page (which is linked to from the logo design competitions): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Logo On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Jeff Meyer j...@gwhat.org wrote: Simon - thanks! But... I didn't see any teardrops or armpits there - is there another place to look for past teardrops? On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/Logos#Logo_design_**competitionshttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logos#Logo_design_competitions Am 14.01.2013 19:12, schrieb Jeff Meyer: Are there any links to past design comps? Past teardrops? Dare I ask, past armpits? __**_ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talkhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Ah now I see... they're really upside-down teardrops or pushpins/mapmarkers. Sorry to be so literal! On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: There was also http://www.crowdspring.com/project/2316224_openstreetmap-logo/access/which mainly had pins. Simon Am 14.01.2013 20:15, schrieb Jeff Meyer: Simon - thanks! But... I didn't see any teardrops or armpits there - is there another place to look for past teardrops? On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logos#Logo_design_competitions Am 14.01.2013 19:12, schrieb Jeff Meyer: Are there any links to past design comps? Past teardrops? Dare I ask, past armpits? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM / my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Hi, On 01/11/2013 03:26 PM, Alex Barth wrote: Over here at MapBox we see a need to better communicate the open and contributory philosophy of OpenStreetMap on our maps. I fully agree with that vision and I think overall one of the key things of that is that people using services made with OpenStreetMap (such as Foursquare, Mapbox or our skobbler) can be better encouraged to become active OSM community members. So we would be definitely supportive of such a standardization and better communication. On 01/11/2013 05:03 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: The symbol itself I find too unobtrusive though; we should encourage people making maps from OSM to actually have OpenStreetMap written on the map and not a little symbol. I think it really depends on where you use it, in the Web definitely people should be encouraged to write the full name, but on mobile reality is most companies don't put anything on the map and put it either before using the map as a disclaimer or in the about sections (such as Apple does) so the hammer would be a significant improvement on mobile to the status quo. It's also standard for building a brand identity to have multiple representation (see Mercedes where you either have only the 'mercedes star' or the star the font 'Mercedes Benz'. That's the same what I would do for this attribution once with text and once without depending on context, space, etc. On 01/11/2013 05:03 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Also, we in OpenStreetMap have often positioned ourselves as more than just markers on a map, and logo suggestions involving the typical map marker teardrop have been rejected (loudly) in the past because of that. If we try to fit all symbolism in the logo it will certainly fail, so I think here we have to make a compromise and foremost a logo must be catchy and easy to identify. Even the best logos (e.g. Twitters bird) catch only part of the identity (in this case freedom) and not every single aspect of a service. Best regards, Philipp ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Hi, On 13.01.2013 12:46, Philipp Kandal wrote: I think it really depends on where you use it, in the Web definitely people should be encouraged to write the full name, but on mobile reality is most companies don't put anything on the map Even if they display a Google map? Also, we in OpenStreetMap have often positioned ourselves as more than just markers on a map, and logo suggestions involving the typical map marker teardrop have been rejected (loudly) in the past because of that. If we try to fit all symbolism in the logo it will certainly fail Yes. The problem with the teardrop logos in the past was not that they were missing symbolism, but using the wrong symbolism - essentially suggesting that OSM was about placing markers. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Am 13.01.2013 um 12:46 schrieb Philipp Kandal philipp.kan...@skobbler.com: On 01/11/2013 03:26 PM, Alex Barth wrote: Over here at MapBox we see a need to better communicate the open and contributory philosophy of OpenStreetMap on our maps. I fully agree with that vision and I think overall one of the key things of that is that people using services made with OpenStreetMap (such as Foursquare, Mapbox or our skobbler) can be better encouraged to become active OSM community members. So we would be definitely supportive of such a standardization and better communication. +1 On 01/11/2013 05:03 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Also, we in OpenStreetMap have often positioned ourselves as more than just markers on a map, and logo suggestions involving the typical map marker teardrop have been rejected (loudly) in the past because of that. If we try to fit all symbolism in the logo it will certainly fail, so I think here we have to make a compromise and foremost a logo must be catchy and easy to identify. Even the best logos (e.g. Twitters bird) catch only part of the identity (in this case freedom) and not every single aspect of a service. while this might be true there is still an open question whether a hammer is the best symbol to choose from. (One could argue that it is a good representation for someone actually doing something, but on the other hand it's also a symbol for something not done in the most precise way ). Personally if I had to choose from these two: http://www.deutschesinstitut.it/Newsletter/bilder/ddr_hammer_sichel.png I would have chosen the compasses. ;-) cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
This is a very nice idea! But before discussing the logo, maybe a simple redesign of the osm logo in a smaller version allowing readibility but keeping the magnifier and the map would save lot of talk. I'm no expert, but somebody with real talent could make something in that idea: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Yvecai/logo Yves ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
I also would like to echo that it is a good idea. Perhaps if people don't like the hammer/bubble it would make sense to have a logo design contest or something. Personally I think anything that is simple and appealing and makes it clear to people can click on it is great. Best, -Kate On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:42 AM, yvecai yve...@gmail.com wrote: This is a very nice idea! But before discussing the logo, maybe a simple redesign of the osm logo in a smaller version allowing readibility but keeping the magnifier and the map would save lot of talk. I'm no expert, but somebody with real talent could make something in that idea: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Yvecai/logo Yves ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Thanks for taking the time to review and respond everyone so far. It's great to see that there is general support for this idea (there are certainly a couple of issues to work through). I'd like to give people more time to weigh in before responding to the threads that are emerging in this discussion, please don't take my silence as absence from the discussion in the meantime. On Jan 12, 2013, at 4:07 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 01/12/2013 12:45 AM, Johan C wrote: The message in my opinion should invite people more to act themselves instead of relying on others to create a map. That's a very good point. We've occasionally used the phrase made by people like you and me or so, to make it clear that we strive to include everyone instead of having creators on one side and consumers on the other. But I like your take a look and join in too. (and this of course preferrably in the correct language version) I'm sure our community would provide translations quickly. This is also the first time where I think that we might perhaps want to give translators the option of exchanging the imagery as well. I'm not a communications expert but it is quite possible that an image that works great for Europe and the US suddenly is problematic in India or Japan. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Over here at MapBox we see a need to better communicate the open and contributory philosophy of OpenStreetMap on our maps. In striving to build a true data commons for contributing and distributing geographic knowledge, OpenStreetMap relies on map users being aware of the openness of its underlying data. At the same time there is room for improvement how we all (the OpenStreetMap community) attribute map data - the ever-expanding range of OSM based maps in the world are an incredible communication channel to talk to individuals who are potential contributors, and encourage them to choose open data or support the OpenStreetMap project in other ways. ## Proposal Inspired by successful campaigns like Intel Inside and Fair Trade, this RFC proposes an OpenStreetMap contributor mark for use on OpenStreetMap based maps. The goal of the OSM contributor mark is to be adopted by as many OSM data users as possible and on as many OSM based maps as possible, thus creating more awareness of the value of free and open geographic data. With these goals in mind - the mark should be compelling and recognizable (i.e. not generic). - it should work off maps in cases where thumbnail maps need to be attributed e.g. in mobile devices - the mark should be clearly distinct from common map user interface elements. - the mark should link to a page on openstreetmap.org that explains the openness of OSM data and its local, community driven nature. Based on this thinking, we have developed a mark that links to a corresponding page for OpenStreetMap.org. This work is captured in a pull request to openstreetmap.org, but you can review it on the demo instance I will walk through here. Pull request: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180 ### Example usages Here are some example maps using the OSM contributor mark: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/examples.html (none of the organizations or individuals used on these examples have officially endorsed this proposal yet, including osm.org). ### Linking back to OSM The contributor mark on these maps link all back to the same page that should be ultimately hosted on `openstreetmap.org/contributors`: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/ (just a demo domain, this should live ideally on `openstreetmap.org/contributors`) The osm.org/contributors communicates key OpenStreetMap features: - Powering map data in hundreds of applications - Local knowledge - Community driven - Open data A learn more button invites to explore more. The main purpose of this page is to feature OpenStreetMap as a community powered project. Hence we worked with pictures of individuals where possible. *We are currently reaching out to photographers and individuals on pictures to get copyright permissions and model releases, if you're on one of these pictures or if you're the photographer of one of these pictures, please get in touch with me.* ### Configurable tiles and wording By modifying the URL to osm.org/contributors specific tile sets and map providers can be featured, like in this example of a link from a Stamen map: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/index.html?name=Stamenimage=tile.stamen.com/watercolor/10/164/396.jpgvendor=StamenvendorURL=maps.stamen.com ### Linking back to OSM based services Organizations who provide OSM based services can choose to set a discreet link from the bottom of osm.org/contributors to their web sites: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/index.html?name=skobblerimage=http://tiles2.skobbler.net/osm_tiles2/11/511/806.pngvendor=skobblervendorURL=skobbler.us http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/index.html?name=foursquareimage=https://dnv9my2eseobd.cloudfront.net/v3/foursquare.map-0y1jh28j/13/2342/3134.pngvendor=MapBoxvendorURL=mabox.com ### Easy to configure It's easy to create your own variation of the page by clicking on add to your map on the bottom of the page, check it out: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/ ## Next steps I am pretty excited about this proposal, as it provides a better way to present the virtues of the OSM project. I'm looking forward to everyone's feedback and hope we have something we want to launch together. Please just respond here or grab me on IRC if you'd like to discuss. This campaign can only gain true momentum if we can get as many as possible to join in. Roughly the next steps are: - Feedback on this thread - Adjustments based on feedback - Ideally: launch on osm.org A hat tip to Young Hahn who developed the concept and design for this proposal. -- Alex ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On 01/11/2013 03:26 PM, Alex Barth wrote: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/ (just a demo domain, this should live ideally on `openstreetmap.org/contributors`) Looks good as far as I understand the proposal... One thing came to me at a quick glance - the new /contributors page does not have any visual references to the osm.org website styling, there is no chrome or even OSM logo there. Isn't that going to be confusing to the user to see such very different page that is part of the website? Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: ## Proposal Inspired by successful campaigns like Intel Inside and Fair Trade, this RFC proposes an OpenStreetMap contributor mark for use on OpenStreetMap based maps. The goal of the OSM contributor mark is to be adopted by as many OSM data users as possible and on as many OSM based maps as possible, thus creating more awareness of the value of free and open geographic data. this sounds like an interesting idea. it's worth noting that the ODbL requires a textual attribution, and we suggest a link to the copyright page [1] where it is appropriate to the medium. are you suggesting that the OSM contributor mark would be an additional, voluntary, on-screen display? from your examples it seems that you'd consider this mark to be a replacement for the required textual attribution - is that right? also, i am confused by the contributor part of it - isn't this an OSM data user mark? With these goals in mind - the mark should be compelling and recognizable (i.e. not generic). i find this hammer-in-teardrop symbol to be very generic, and not very compelling. - it should work off maps in cases where thumbnail maps need to be attributed e.g. in mobile devices - the mark should be clearly distinct from common map user interface elements. - the mark should link to a page on openstreetmap.org that explains the openness of OSM data and its local, community driven nature. this sounds like a general about page to me. which is fine - we need a good about page, and the example you've given looks good. a few points i noticed: - its very graphically heavy - the explanation its trying to provide is mostly off-screen, and (at least on my display) initially occupies a tiny area in the lower left of the screen. if this is the important part of the page, rather than the picture, shouldn't it be more prominent? - as ppawel has already pointed out, it's pretty radically and confusingly differently styled to the rest of the OSM sites. - (minor) probably better to link to learnosm than the wiki? seems rather cruel to subject someone to the wiki when it might be only the second OSM page they see ;-) cheers, matt ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote: a link to the copyright page [1] oops, forgot to add the footnote last time [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
On Jan 11, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Paweł Paprota ppa...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 01/11/2013 03:26 PM, Alex Barth wrote: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/ (just a demo domain, this should live ideally on `openstreetmap.org/contributors`) Looks good as far as I understand the proposal... One thing came to me at a quick glance - the new /contributors page does not have any visual references to the osm.org website styling, there is no chrome or even OSM logo there. Isn't that going to be confusing to the user to see such very different page that is part of the website? I'm not worried about not using the openstreetmap.org chrome, it would be actually distracting. What matters is that this page clearly communicates what OSM is about and that it links back to OSM. It works much like a full screen ad. We did take care though to use OSM typical styles like the font and the colors. Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
Hi, On 01/11/2013 03:26 PM, Alex Barth wrote: Over here at MapBox we see a need to better communicate the open and contributory philosophy of OpenStreetMap on our maps. I see two aspects: 1 - standardising map attribution (your teardrop+hammer symbol) 2 - making a nice about page Both are not necessarily connected but can be. Your about pages look impressive! There is certainly room for such a campaign type set of pages somewhere on OSM where we can steer newcomers who want to see a slide show or so. Personally, I'd even like the openstreetmap.org start page to be very simple with a few links - one to your pages, one to the map, and perhaps a couple more. I'm not sure however if that set of pages (which is high on visuals and low on facts) would be the prime target for someone clicking on a map attribution somewhere; the copyright page we're using now might be better suited for that, not least because many third parties who give us their data are promised attribution via that page and it might not be good to put that behind too many clicks. Standardising map attribution is often asked for and I welcome the effort. The symbol itself I find too unobtrusive though; we should encourage people making maps from OSM to actually have OpenStreetMap written on the map and not a little symbol. I don't see why we should be content with a mini icon when both Google and Bing require much larger attribution - it looks like we wanted to acknowledge that we're not as great as them! Also, we in OpenStreetMap have often positioned ourselves as more than just markers on a map, and logo suggestions involving the typical map marker teardrop have been rejected (loudly) in the past because of that. I find the hammer-and-teardrop symbol visually appealing but it might not be the right symbol for OSM. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
I love everything except the icon and the absence of attribution text. (It's really an attribution mark, right? Calling it a contributor mark seems confusing.) It's almost as if the icon is intentionally nondescript, to drive questions about OSM's current branding. If so, that's probably a good discussion to have I'm all for that, too, just separately. -- Jeff Meyer Global World History Atlas www.gwhat.org j...@gwhat.org 206-676-2347 osm: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer osm: Historical OSMhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_OSM my OSM user page http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer t: @GWHAThistory https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory f: GWHAThistory https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
I agree with the other comments. Some text is needed, though perhaps it can be compressed to something like Made By OSM? I do like the symbol in itself, but it's too subtle here and needs to somehow evoke the OSM brand. * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com To: talk@openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:26 AM Subject: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark Over here at MapBox we see a need to better communicate the open and contributory philosophy of OpenStreetMap on our maps. In striving to build a true data commons for contributing and distributing geographic knowledge, OpenStreetMap relies on map users being aware of the openness of its underlying data. At the same time there is room for improvement how we all (the OpenStreetMap community) attribute map data - the ever-expanding range of OSM based maps in the world are an incredible communication channel to talk to individuals who are potential contributors, and encourage them to choose open data or support the OpenStreetMap project in other ways. ## Proposal Inspired by successful campaigns like Intel Inside and Fair Trade, this RFC proposes an OpenStreetMap contributor mark for use on OpenStreetMap based maps. The goal of the OSM contributor mark is to be adopted by as many OSM data users as possible and on as many OSM based maps as possible, thus creating more awareness of the value of free and open geographic data. With these goals in mind - the mark should be compelling and recognizable (i.e. not generic). - it should work off maps in cases where thumbnail maps need to be attributed e.g. in mobile devices - the mark should be clearly distinct from common map user interface elements. - the mark should link to a page on openstreetmap.org that explains the openness of OSM data and its local, community driven nature. Based on this thinking, we have developed a mark that links to a corresponding page for OpenStreetMap.org. This work is captured in a pull request to openstreetmap.org, but you can review it on the demo instance I will walk through here. Pull request: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180 ### Example usages Here are some example maps using the OSM contributor mark: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/examples.html (none of the organizations or individuals used on these examples have officially endorsed this proposal yet, including osm.org). ### Linking back to OSM The contributor mark on these maps link all back to the same page that should be ultimately hosted on `openstreetmap.org/contributors`: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/ (just a demo domain, this should live ideally on `openstreetmap.org/contributors`) The osm.org/contributors communicates key OpenStreetMap features: - Powering map data in hundreds of applications - Local knowledge - Community driven - Open data A learn more button invites to explore more. The main purpose of this page is to feature OpenStreetMap as a community powered project. Hence we worked with pictures of individuals where possible. *We are currently reaching out to photographers and individuals on pictures to get copyright permissions and model releases, if you're on one of these pictures or if you're the photographer of one of these pictures, please get in touch with me.* ### Configurable tiles and wording By modifying the URL to osm.org/contributors specific tile sets and map providers can be featured, like in this example of a link from a Stamen map: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/index.html?name=Stamenimage=tile.stamen.com/watercolor/10/164/396.jpgvendor=StamenvendorURL=maps.stamen.com ### Linking back to OSM based services Organizations who provide OSM based services can choose to set a discreet link from the bottom of osm.org/contributors to their web sites: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/index.html?name=skobblerimage=http://tiles2.skobbler.net/osm_tiles2/11/511/806.pngvendor=skobblervendorURL=skobbler.us http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/index.html?name=foursquareimage=https://dnv9my2eseobd.cloudfront.net/v3/foursquare.map-0y1jh28j/13/2342/3134.pngvendor=MapBoxvendorURL=mabox.com ### Easy to configure It's easy to create your own variation of the page by clicking on add to your map on the bottom of the page, check it out: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/ ## Next steps I am pretty excited about this proposal, as it provides a better way to present the virtues of the OSM project. I'm looking forward to everyone's feedback and hope we have something we want to launch together. Please just respond here or grab me on IRC if you'd like to discuss. This campaign can only gain true momentum if we can get as many as possible to join in. Roughly the next steps are: - Feedback on this thread - Adjustments based on feedback - Ideally: launch on osm.org A hat tip to Young Hahn who developed the concept
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
I also like the idea to have something identifying reuse of OSM data without mixing it with using the OSM logo (see other recent discussion about this here on talk@). On the graphical side, it should be more visible than the draft... the ribbon idea looks nice too or use a smaller but full corner like a page flip one. Ribbon or corner allow to have some text which is difficult or impossible with an icon or logo. Instead of Made by OSM, I would prefer Made with OSM as the tiles or the whole site using OSM cannot be considered made by OSM. A pages linked should graphically attractive like the one in the draft, where I would see a few simple messages like: - you can help, improve, contribute - you can (re)use, - free licence 2013/1/11 Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com: I agree with the other comments. Some text is needed, though perhaps it can be compressed to something like Made By OSM? I do like the symbol in itself, but it's too subtle here and needs to somehow evoke the OSM brand. * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com To: talk@openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:26 AM Subject: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark Over here at MapBox we see a need to better communicate the open and contributory philosophy of OpenStreetMap on our maps. In striving to build a true data commons for contributing and distributing geographic knowledge, OpenStreetMap relies on map users being aware of the openness of its underlying data. At the same time there is room for improvement how we all (the OpenStreetMap community) attribute map data - the ever-expanding range of OSM based maps in the world are an incredible communication channel to talk to individuals who are potential contributors, and encourage them to choose open data or support the OpenStreetMap project in other ways. ## Proposal Inspired by successful campaigns like Intel Inside and Fair Trade, this RFC proposes an OpenStreetMap contributor mark for use on OpenStreetMap based maps. The goal of the OSM contributor mark is to be adopted by as many OSM data users as possible and on as many OSM based maps as possible, thus creating more awareness of the value of free and open geographic data. With these goals in mind - the mark should be compelling and recognizable (i.e. not generic). - it should work off maps in cases where thumbnail maps need to be attributed e.g. in mobile devices - the mark should be clearly distinct from common map user interface elements. - the mark should link to a page on openstreetmap.org that explains the openness of OSM data and its local, community driven nature. Based on this thinking, we have developed a mark that links to a corresponding page for OpenStreetMap.org. This work is captured in a pull request to openstreetmap.org, but you can review it on the demo instance I will walk through here. Pull request: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180 ### Example usages Here are some example maps using the OSM contributor mark: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/examples.html (none of the organizations or individuals used on these examples have officially endorsed this proposal yet, including osm.org). ### Linking back to OSM The contributor mark on these maps link all back to the same page that should be ultimately hosted on `openstreetmap.org/contributors`: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/ (just a demo domain, this should live ideally on `openstreetmap.org/contributors`) The osm.org/contributors communicates key OpenStreetMap features: - Powering map data in hundreds of applications - Local knowledge - Community driven - Open data A learn more button invites to explore more. The main purpose of this page is to feature OpenStreetMap as a community powered project. Hence we worked with pictures of individuals where possible. *We are currently reaching out to photographers and individuals on pictures to get copyright permissions and model releases, if you're on one of these pictures or if you're the photographer of one of these pictures, please get in touch with me.* ### Configurable tiles and wording By modifying the URL to osm.org/contributors specific tile sets and map providers can be featured, like in this example of a link from a Stamen map: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/index.html?name=Stamenimage=tile.stamen.com/watercolor/10/164/396.jpgvendor=StamenvendorURL=maps.stamen.com ### Linking back to OSM based services Organizations who provide OSM based services can choose to set a discreet link from the bottom of osm.org/contributors to their web sites: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/index.html?name=skobblerimage=http://tiles2.skobbler.net/osm_tiles2/11/511/806.pngvendor=skobblervendorURL=skobbler.us http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/index.html?name=foursquareimage=https
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
I like the spirit of this, and I think it's a necessary and welcome idea. When Stamen did the Nike Grid Run project a few years ago, the one place where it was not possible to display correct attribution was on the TV ads, so a significantly smaller but still compliant contribution marker would have been helpful. I think it should be textual though, and in my opinion a memorable link to more useful information. What about osm.org/c ? Small, obviously a URL, can be easily tucked away in a corner in the same way as the hammer mark, but when seen it can be acted-on regardless of medium. /c would redirect. -mike. --- michal migurski http://mike.teczno.com On Jan 11, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: I agree with the other comments. Some text is needed, though perhaps it can be compressed to something like Made By OSM? I do like the symbol in itself, but it's too subtle here and needs to somehow evoke the OSM brand. * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com To: talk@openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:26 AM Subject: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark Over here at MapBox we see a need to better communicate the open and contributory philosophy of OpenStreetMap on our maps. In striving to build a true data commons for contributing and distributing geographic knowledge, OpenStreetMap relies on map users being aware of the openness of its underlying data. At the same time there is room for improvement how we all (the OpenStreetMap community) attribute map data - the ever-expanding range of OSM based maps in the world are an incredible communication channel to talk to individuals who are potential contributors, and encourage them to choose open data or support the OpenStreetMap project in other ways. ## Proposal Inspired by successful campaigns like Intel Inside and Fair Trade, this RFC proposes an OpenStreetMap contributor mark for use on OpenStreetMap based maps. The goal of the OSM contributor mark is to be adopted by as many OSM data users as possible and on as many OSM based maps as possible, thus creating more awareness of the value of free and open geographic data. With these goals in mind - the mark should be compelling and recognizable (i.e. not generic). - it should work off maps in cases where thumbnail maps need to be attributed e.g. in mobile devices - the mark should be clearly distinct from common map user interface elements. - the mark should link to a page on openstreetmap.org that explains the openness of OSM data and its local, community driven nature. Based on this thinking, we have developed a mark that links to a corresponding page for OpenStreetMap.org. This work is captured in a pull request to openstreetmap.org, but you can review it on the demo instance I will walk through here. Pull request: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/180 ### Example usages Here are some example maps using the OSM contributor mark: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/examples.html (none of the organizations or individuals used on these examples have officially endorsed this proposal yet, including osm.org). ### Linking back to OSM The contributor mark on these maps link all back to the same page that should be ultimately hosted on `openstreetmap.org/contributors`: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/ (just a demo domain, this should live ideally on `openstreetmap.org/contributors`) The osm.org/contributors communicates key OpenStreetMap features: - Powering map data in hundreds of applications - Local knowledge - Community driven - Open data A learn more button invites to explore more. The main purpose of this page is to feature OpenStreetMap as a community powered project. Hence we worked with pictures of individuals where possible. *We are currently reaching out to photographers and individuals on pictures to get copyright permissions and model releases, if you're on one of these pictures or if you're the photographer of one of these pictures, please get in touch with me.* ### Configurable tiles and wording By modifying the URL to osm.org/contributors specific tile sets and map providers can be featured, like in this example of a link from a Stamen map: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/index.html?name=Stamenimage=tile.stamen.com/watercolor/10/164/396.jpgvendor=StamenvendorURL=maps.stamen.com ### Linking back to OSM based services Organizations who provide OSM based services can choose to set a discreet link from the bottom of osm.org/contributors to their web sites: http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/index.html?name=skobblerimage=http://tiles2.skobbler.net/osm_tiles2/11/511/806.pngvendor=skobblervendorURL=skobbler.us http://yhahn.github.com/byosm/index.html?name=foursquareimage=https
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
+1 On 01/11/2013 08:27 PM, Michal Migurski wrote: I like the spirit of this, and I think it's a necessary and welcome idea. When Stamen did the Nike Grid Run project a few years ago, the one place where it was not possible to display correct attribution was on the TV ads, so a significantly smaller but still compliant contribution marker would have been helpful. I think it should be textual though, and in my opinion a memorable link to more useful information. What about osm.org/c ? Small, obviously a URL, can be easily tucked away in a corner in the same way as the hammer mark, but when seen it can be acted-on regardless of medium. /c would redirect. --- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark
I very much like the proposal, thanks for doing that. The goal to achieve more awareness is great, let's act to achieve that goal. Several things have been said about the mark. I think having text like osm.org/c there is a + 1. Intel Inside has text. FairTrade has text. Maybe for the mark (next to the text) also a tweak of the present OSM logo (left top of osm.org) could do the job. For the process: please make adjustments and send in the next draft. Putting it on osm.org seems like a must: if our page doesn't have it, why should others use it? About the text: *OSM is built by a community of local mappers that keeps data about roads, cafés, subway stations, and much more up to date every day.* It might create false expectations, Last Sunday I drove on a quite important primary road. My OSM navigation let me down. Later I found out that it was due to a turn restriction error which was already there for 1,5 year. The message in my opinion should invite people more to act themselves instead of relying on others to create a map. I'm not a communication expert, but maybe something like this: 'Openstreetmap is built by a growing community that wants to create the best map in the world. Take a look at your neighbourhood and join in to experience the fun of adding data about roads, shops and so on. (and this of course preferrably in the correct language version) Cheers, Johan 2013/1/11 Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl +1 On 01/11/2013 08:27 PM, Michal Migurski wrote: I like the spirit of this, and I think it's a necessary and welcome idea. When Stamen did the Nike Grid Run project a few years ago, the one place where it was not possible to display correct attribution was on the TV ads, so a significantly smaller but still compliant contribution marker would have been helpful. I think it should be textual though, and in my opinion a memorable link to more useful information. What about osm.org/c ? Small, obviously a URL, can be easily tucked away in a corner in the same way as the hammer mark, but when seen it can be acted-on regardless of medium. /c would redirect. --- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
