[Talk-hr] Biljar klubovi

2009-09-22 Thread Valent Turkovic
Ako imate biljar klubove/kafice u svome gradu mozete ih ovako oznaciti:

sport=billiard
billiard:pool=yes/no
billiard:snooker=yes/no

kao primjer:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/503859442



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ???

2009-09-22 Thread Dennis Bollyn
Kristoff,
I don't think a license that forbids commercial use of the data is compatible 
with openstreetmap. Doing so would in my opinion be counter to the spirit.
Best regards,
Gyrbo

- Oorspronkelijk bericht - 
Van : Kristoff Bonne [mailto:kristoff.bo...@skypro.be]
Verzonden : dinsdag , september 22, 2009 08:37 AM 
Aan : talk-be@openstreetmap.org
Onderwerp : [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received 
information ???

Hi All, 


After I managed to receive the official streetmap data from my 
town-administration, I'm now quering the neighbouring towns for the same 
thing. 


Now, IMHO, what would help to persuade the administrations is a bit more 
legal security on the use of this information. After all, this 
information does also have a commercial value (when they are also 
licenced to the commercial streetmap companies) so it might be usefull 
to provide the same kind of thing. 

So, I don't know how the discussion on the vzw is going, but perhaps 
one of the things that I would concider it to be for it, would be to 
draw up a formal licence-agreement (perhaps you can ask legal support 
from one of the other open-source related organisation on this) and to 
be the party which who (say) a city council or a town's administration 
can sign this agreement. 


IMHO, the license would need to contain something like this: (this is 
just a rough idea, I tried to balance the rights of both parties as much 
as possible). 
- the city-council is copyright-owner of the information and remains it 
to be; including in furher copies of this information 
- the city-council permit the information to be entered into the 
openstreetmap-server, under the open-documentation licence 
- no commercial use of this information is allowed (this would stop the 
commercial companies from copying the streetmap-information from the 
openstreetmap-server instead of asking (read: pay for) it from the 
city-councils. 



It would then be usefull if the vzw would enter this kind of information 
into the openstreetmap-server. The situation now is that -as I am the 
person who received the informaton from my city-council and who uploaded 
it- if any legal problems would arrize this would all trace-back to me! 

So, if information received from thirth-parties would be uploaded by an 
account which is owned by the vzw; this would also safeguard the 
volonteers who do the work from being legally draged into a court-case 
if problems would arrize (e.g. with the commercial streetmap-companies). 



I think, if you have an organisation that works with volonteers, it's 
always your responsability to make sure these volonteers are as much 
protected as possible. (this is a bit in the same line as the message 
I posted earlier on assurence for volonteers who take part in a 
streetmapping-event). 


Any comments or questions welcome! 


Cheerio! 
Kr. Bonne. 

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ???

2009-09-22 Thread Ben Laenen
Kristoff Bonne wrote:
 Hi All,
 
 
 After I managed to receive the official streetmap data from my
 town-administration, I'm now quering the neighbouring towns for the same
 thing.

A little question:

would it be possible to setup some server to host the files we get this way, 
so everyone in the project can make use of it? Or for later reference should 
the person who got the data disappear? Of course it should come with the 
metadata that the file is under the same license as OSM.

Because I still remember that mysterious railway gps tracks dataset someone 
got from NMBS or other railway company for usage in OSM (about two years ago I 
think), and then no-one ever heard of him again. So there's that useful data 
somewhere, except no-one can use it because the data disappeared with the 
person.

Greetings
Ben

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ???

2009-09-22 Thread Luc Van den Troost
If it is data that can be transformed in a GPX file it should be the
most easy to upload it as a 'track' that is public? 

For other data that should be public available, isn't there some
existing - osm - server that could host it? 

I have plenty of place on a server where only bandwidth can be a
problem, limited place on a server where bandwidth is no problem. 

Luc / Speedy


On Tue, 2009-09-22 at 14:23 +0200, Ben Laenen wrote:
 Kristoff Bonne wrote:
  Hi All,
  
  
  After I managed to receive the official streetmap data from my
  town-administration, I'm now quering the neighbouring towns for the same
  thing.
 
 A little question:
 
 would it be possible to setup some server to host the files we get this way, 
 so everyone in the project can make use of it? Or for later reference should 
 the person who got the data disappear? Of course it should come with the 
 metadata that the file is under the same license as OSM.
 
 Because I still remember that mysterious railway gps tracks dataset someone 
 got from NMBS or other railway company for usage in OSM (about two years ago 
 I 
 think), and then no-one ever heard of him again. So there's that useful data 
 somewhere, except no-one can use it because the data disappeared with the 
 person.
 
 Greetings
 Ben
 
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[OSM-talk-be] 2e Antwerps OSM cafe

2009-09-22 Thread Luc Van den Troost
Dag allen, 

3 maanden geleden hadden we ons eerste Antwerpse OSM-cafe. Een informele
vergadering met - vooral in Antwerpen aktieve - mappers.

Een van de conclusies van de bijeenkomst was toen dat we dat eens
regelmatig moesten doen. 

Vandaar dat ik zou voorstellen op 25 oktober, vanaf 13 uur, opnieuw
bijeen te komen bij ons thuis - Van Boendalestraat 8, 2000 Antwerpen -
zie http://www.bb2000.be/stratenzoeker 

Ik zorg eens te meer voor koffie en koffiekoeken - zeker voor degenen
die vooraf laten weten dat ze komen - Internet is uiteraard ook
beschikbaar en dit maal zorg ik ook voor meer fietsenstalling...

Dingen die besproken kunnen/mogen/moeten worden:

*** Toestand van de kaart in Antwerpen:

De meeste straten, ook in de gebieden die op de luchtfoto's onder een
wolk schuilgaan, zitten erin. De meeste straten zijn ook benoemd en
voorzien van de juiste tagging qua aard en hoofdrijrichting.

Gaten in de kaart zijn er nog: 
zie ook http://www.bb2000.be/stratenzoeker/state.html
2030 Luchtbal: enkele onbenoemde straten in de hoek van
Groenendaallaan / Noorderlaan - tegenover Metropolis - maar vooral nog
wat ontbrekende straten in het havengebied tussen Albertdok en
Noorderlaan. 
2040 BeZaLi: nog 60 onbenoemde straten vooral in Zandvliet en ook nog
wat in Berendrecht. 
2060 Noord: nog enkele ontbrekende straten, vooral dan wat stegen en
ingesloten pleintjes
2100 Deurne: nog 34 onbenoemde straten, vooral in Deurne noord, de buurt
van het Sportpaleis
2170 Merksem: nog 106 - van de 250 - straten zonder naam. Eigenlijk
bijna de hele hoek tussen Lambrechtshoekenlaan en de Bredabaan. 
2180 Ekeren. Nog 35 onbenoemde straten, vooral wijk Schoonbroek,
'edisonwijk' en nog wat in Rozemaai. 
2610 Wilrijk  2660 Hoboken: wat missende straten her en der. Is ook het
gebied met de meeste wolken...

*** Dingen in 't stad waar nog wel meer werk aan is:
- fietsen in tegenrichting
- huisnummers
- restricties - no left turn, no right turn, ...
- maxspeed en andere restricties

Hieromtrent eventueel afspraken en tips

*** De haven. een lastig gebied...
In de haven zijn een heel aantal straten uit de officiele lijst
verdwenen, een aantal zijn gelegen in een prive concessie of in het
beveiligde 'afgesloten' gebied van de haven. Praktische tips hoe we dit
aanpakken. 

*** POI's. Van welke is het nuttig om 'volledigheid' na te streven en
welke zijn eerder facultatief? 

*** Wat als de kaart 'af' is... Uiteraard moet die verder geupdated
worden en zo, maar eens Antwerpen af is is het misschien ook tijd om
hierrond eens wat promo te maken, de kaart ruimer 'in gebruik' te
krijgen en zo... Maken we daarrond een 'aktieprogramma' en zo ja, hoe
doen we dat? 


Mag ik hierbij nog eens vermelden dat ook mappers die niet in Antwerpen
aktief zijn meer dan welkom zijn. Een face-to-face bijeenkomst is de
beste plaats om allerlei praktische problemen het snelst besproken en
opgelost te hebben. Ook sommige dingen eens 'zien doen' leert je vaak
meer dan 500 x de wiki lezen...


Praktisch:

2e Antwerps OSM Cafe
zondag 25 oktober, 13 uur
Van Boendalestraat 8, 2000 Antwerpen
openbaar vervoer:
De lijn / Franklin Rooseveltplaats op 200 m
NMBS / Centraal station op 500 m

Wie komt geeft bij voorkeur een seintje vooraf, anders zijn koffiekoeken
niet gegarandeerd ;-)

Luc / Speedy





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Re: [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ???

2009-09-22 Thread Kristoff Bonne
Ben,


The ESRI-files I received as been converted to points and ways and have
been uploaded directly to the OSM-server in that form.

But, concidering storing the original files in some central place, the
issue is that I have a spoken agreement with the person who provided
these files for uploading them to the openstreetmap-project. I have
never spoken to him about giving these files to other people or
something like that.

That's exactly one of the reasons why I think some kinf of written
agreement would not be a bad thing. At least, it provides clearity on
who does what, what information is stored where, etc.

In the end, this is in the interest of everybody!



Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.

Ben Laenen schreef:
 Kristoff Bonne wrote:
   
 Hi All,


 After I managed to receive the official streetmap data from my
 town-administration, I'm now quering the neighbouring towns for the same
 thing.
 

 A little question:

 would it be possible to setup some server to host the files we get this way, 
 so everyone in the project can make use of it? Or for later reference should 
 the person who got the data disappear? Of course it should come with the 
 metadata that the file is under the same license as OSM.

 Because I still remember that mysterious railway gps tracks dataset someone 
 got from NMBS or other railway company for usage in OSM (about two years ago 
 I 
 think), and then no-one ever heard of him again. So there's that useful data 
 somewhere, except no-one can use it because the data disappeared with the 
 person.

 Greetings
 Ben

   


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ???

2009-09-22 Thread Kristoff Bonne
Hi Dennis and all others.


I just checked at it looks like you are right. To bad the license-system
does not allow (e.g.) the user to select between a commercial use
barred or commercial use allowed license per data-element they enter.

After all, on everything that is upload is some metadata attached, so it
would be perfectly possible to encode this distiction inside the database.
The


But, besides this point, I still think it would be interesting to have
some kind of formal license-agreement that a thirth-party can sign (even
it just is a copy of the normal license of the openstreetmap-project
adding we provide out data to 'openstreetmap.be vzw' who have to right
to enter them into the openstreetmap-server on out behalve.


A lot of organisation like some kind of formal agreement they can look
at, be verified by their legal department and be signed by the
schepen or somebody else.
(it's actually a great opportunity to invite the press and get some
coverage for the openstreetmap-project).



Perhaps somebody should contact an organisation like the FFII to get
some advice on this; as they probably have more experience with this
kind of legal issues.



Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.

 Kristoff,
 I don't think a license that forbids commercial use of the data is compatible 
 with openstreetmap. Doing so would in my opinion be counter to the spirit.
 Best regards,
 Gyrbo

 - Oorspronkelijk bericht - 
 Van : Kristoff Bonne [mailto:kristoff.bo...@skypro.be]
 Verzonden : dinsdag , september 22, 2009 08:37 AM 
 Aan : talk-be@openstreetmap.org
 Onderwerp : [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received 
 information ???

 Hi All, 


 After I managed to receive the official streetmap data from my 
 town-administration, I'm now quering the neighbouring towns for the same 
 thing. 


 Now, IMHO, what would help to persuade the administrations is a bit more 
 legal security on the use of this information. After all, this 
 information does also have a commercial value (when they are also 
 licenced to the commercial streetmap companies) so it might be usefull 
 to provide the same kind of thing. 

 So, I don't know how the discussion on the vzw is going, but perhaps 
 one of the things that I would concider it to be for it, would be to 
 draw up a formal licence-agreement (perhaps you can ask legal support 
 from one of the other open-source related organisation on this) and to 
 be the party which who (say) a city council or a town's administration 
 can sign this agreement. 


 IMHO, the license would need to contain something like this: (this is 
 just a rough idea, I tried to balance the rights of both parties as much 
 as possible). 
 - the city-council is copyright-owner of the information and remains it 
 to be; including in furher copies of this information 
 - the city-council permit the information to be entered into the 
 openstreetmap-server, under the open-documentation licence 
 - no commercial use of this information is allowed (this would stop the 
 commercial companies from copying the streetmap-information from the 
 openstreetmap-server instead of asking (read: pay for) it from the 
 city-councils. 



 It would then be usefull if the vzw would enter this kind of information 
 into the openstreetmap-server. The situation now is that -as I am the 
 person who received the informaton from my city-council and who uploaded 
 it- if any legal problems would arrize this would all trace-back to me! 

 So, if information received from thirth-parties would be uploaded by an 
 account which is owned by the vzw; this would also safeguard the 
 volonteers who do the work from being legally draged into a court-case 
 if problems would arrize (e.g. with the commercial streetmap-companies). 



 I think, if you have an organisation that works with volonteers, it's 
 always your responsability to make sure these volonteers are as much 
 protected as possible. (this is a bit in the same line as the message 
 I posted earlier on assurence for volonteers who take part in a 
 streetmapping-event). 


 Any comments or questions welcome! 


 Cheerio! 
 Kr. Bonne. 

   
 

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] licence-agreement for using 3th party received information ???

2009-09-22 Thread Ben Laenen
Kristoff Bonne wrote:
 Ben,
 
 
 The ESRI-files I received as been converted to points and ways and have
 been uploaded directly to the OSM-server in that form.

About which municipality are we actually speaking btw? From which town did you 
get the data?


 But, concidering storing the original files in some central place, the
 issue is that I have a spoken agreement with the person who provided
 these files for uploading them to the openstreetmap-project. I have
 never spoken to him about giving these files to other people or
 something like that.

But by uploading to OSM you're basically doing just that: giving it away to 
other people. Except that when you don't make the file itself available 
somewhere, some people may have a slightly harder time extracting the dataset 
from OSM again. But it's possible nonetheless, and he could then make an ESRI 
file again from that and distribute that under the CC license, and so we end 
up with the same file you started with, except a possible quality loss.

So I do not understand your point here. By giving it to OSM through you he 
basically said it's OK to distribute under OSM license. So you can make the 
file by itself available under the same license. It'll stay under the 
copyright of whatever organization made the ESRI file, but would just get a CC 
license stamp.

You just never know what will happen in future with the data, and we might 
need it again, and you may not be around then.


 That's exactly one of the reasons why I think some kinf of written
 agreement would not be a bad thing. At least, it provides clearity on
 who does what, what information is stored where, etc.
 
 In the end, this is in the interest of everybody!

Well, it would look more formal, but in the end an OSM Belgium vzw wouldn't be 
more official than you as a private person. You could have signed a contract 
with him just as well if you want a written agreement to be sure no problems 
could arise in future. I don't think the envelope of a non-profit organization 
would mean its members aren't vulnerable to those claims.

Greetings
Ben

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS map copyright expiry dates, FOI request

2009-09-22 Thread Peter Miller

On 21 Sep 2009, at 10:30, Ed Avis wrote:

 Good work!  This must mean that if we see Ordnance Survey maps in  
 secondhand
 shops with a copyright date of 1958 or earlier, we should buy them  
 and start
 scanning them in.

 (I know about the npemaps site; is there some other collection of  
 out-of-
 copyright maps to contribute to?)

Warper is pretty neat. Check it out here:
http://warper.geothings.net/layers

There is a lot of discussion on talk-gb about all this at present -  
focusing in particular on aerial photography but I believe that Warper  
was originally set up for old maps (discussion titled openstreetmap's  
first flight and 'Verticality metre, was: Re: OpenStreetMap's first  
flight!').
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2009-September/thread.html

Fyi, Steve Chiltern already has a complete set of very clean Series 7  
OS inch/mile maps published in the late1950's that have lived in  
vertical hangers in a university all their lives (so there are no  
creases etc). He is starting to digitise them as they come out of  
copyright over the period End 2008 to end 2010.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/7th_Series

Regards,


Peter

 -- 
 Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

2009-09-22 Thread John McKerrell
Because I'm convinced it needs a level of moderation that would end up  
requiring that we host the photos anyway. Also flickr (for instance)  
costs money above 200 (I think) photos. I would hope that someone  
(possibly me) would write something to let you suck images in from  
flickr when the OSV API can provide for that.


On 21 Sep 2009, at 22:55, Ian Dees wrote:

This is a great idea, but why not just use Flickr or some similar  
photo site that offers an API for geotagged photos?


The only unique thing we'd need to add is a method of recording the  
orientation (X degrees from magnetic north, Y degrees inclination, Z  
degrees field of view) of the photo at a given position (if known)  
so that we can later build a StreetView-type interface for these  
images.


Such information could be stored with Flickr's API as machine tags.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 4:45 PM, John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net  
wrote:
So, after talking about my ideas for an OpenStreetView project at  
SOTM way back in July I've finally got things together enough to  
launch a site. I announced it on pho...@openstreetmap.org a few days  
ago to get some initial opininos but I think it's time to get a few  
more people looking at it. It does seem to be running a bit slow and  
I didn't have a huge amount of success with processing large numbers  
of photos earlier today but I want to get more images live on it by  
the time I give a talk about it on Thursday morning so I'll give you  
all a chance to get uploading. Please take a look at the email below  
for more instructions, it's definitely not perfect but it's  
functional for some specific uses.




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Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?

2009-09-22 Thread Lester Caine
Roy Wallace wrote:
 On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
 Can I check? Are there people here who are suggesting that, in my case,
 they want to draw all four ways (yes, I know the footpath hasn't been
 mapped yet) as  a single way  specify the differences with lane tags?
 Camp one is - single way with lanes=4 + bridge section
 Camp two would prefer all elements mapped in which case the bridge WOULD
 be a separate element.
 
 Camp three: multiple ways representing paths of travel, grouped with a
 bridge relation to indicate they share a common bridge. This could
 probably be seen as a compromise, and is (I think) a good interim
 solution, if not a very-long-term solution.

That is simply camp two ...
The bridge relation would have to have a physical presence at some point!

The point I am trying to make is that the two camps HAVE to co-exist. 
What we are looking for is a way to 'rough in' the data, and provide a 
macro level view of things, and then add the NECESSARY detail below that 
so that micro mapping can simply be added to the macro model.

If that means a half way house of detailing the fine content of a way by 
splitting into multiple tracks, then the 'holder' for the bridge slots 
in to that model and can be expanded in detail later.

At some point it WILL become necessary to create elements like bridges 
as 'paintings' with accurate graphic detail, but the higher level view 
only needs the single way with a bridge flag - and there is no reason 
that could not be provided as a tag on a single macro level view of the 
way? At the macro level THAT makes sense, while once one breaks a way 
down into it's component tracks, a tag on that view may be of more 
advantage to fine detail routing, while a separate bridge element makes 
more sense for rendering in the smaller scales?

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php

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Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?

2009-09-22 Thread Lester Caine
Roy Wallace wrote:
 On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 12:20 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
 A bridge should probably have its
 own geometry.  And if a bridge has its own geometry (polygon or line and
 width) and a layer tag you don't even need the relation, do you?  Anything
 in the area of the bridge with the same layer is located on the bridge.
 
 I like the idea.
 
 BUT I shouldn't have to measure the bridge to be able to indicate that
 a section of way(s) goes over a bridge.
 
 Using an area to mark a bridge in this way should be *optional*, in
 the same was as a POI can be marked as a node or an area. Therefore, a
 bridge relation would still be useful to indicate that multiple ways
 share a bridge, for when the bridge geometry is unknown.

Which is exactly the same rule as applies elsewhere. A car park can 
exist simply as a POI tag, or as fine detail, perhaps even with parking 
bays. The point is to make things transparently scalable. At the 
'county' level you don't need the shape of the car park, just a tag to 
it's presence so you can indicate where they are. Same with any object?

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
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Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?

2009-09-22 Thread Lester Caine
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
 2009/9/21 Anthony o...@inbox.org:
 Osmarender does a pretty good job of those bridges:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=27.95907lon=-82.53907zoom=17layers=0B00FTF
 Notice how it combines the two ways heading south into one bridge even
 without any additional information besides the fact that the two ways are
 close together.
 
 there are many cases of parallel bridges though, where you don't want
 them to render as one because they are two (or more), so being close
 cannot be the criteria.

And details like two or three deck bridges also require a little more 
information, although the layer model would at least keep cars off the 
train level ;)

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map scale

2009-09-22 Thread Tom Hughes
On 22/09/09 03:44, Andrew Errington wrote:

 I'm pretty sure there used to be a scale on the map[1] in the lower left
 corner.  Yesterday I noticed it was no longer there.

Correct see http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/1704 for the reasons.

Tom

-- 
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http://www.compton.nu/

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

2009-09-22 Thread Claudius
Am 21.09.2009 23:45, John McKerrell:
 To try it out, head over to http://openstreetview.org/

 You'll need to sign up for an account, verify your email address and
 then log in.

The most important question for me: Why don't you use OSM's own OAuth 
infrastructure [1]? I don't feel comfortable signing up at yet another 
site and I don't want you to having to deal with keeping your user's 
data safe besides coding.

Claudius

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Oauth


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[OSM-talk] good news: shapefile usage of ramsar sites for openstreetmap.org

2009-09-22 Thread Roman Neumüller

Good news: we can use the shapefiles of wetland.org (1)!
:D

Roman

(1)
http://ramsar.wetlands.org/GISMaps/DownloadGISdatasets/tabid/769/language/en-US/Default.aspx

--- Forwarded message ---
From: PECK Dwight p...@ramsar.org
To: Roman Neumüller em...@katpatuka.org
Cc: stephan.fl...@wetlands.org stephan.fl...@wetlands.org
Subject: RE: RE: shapefile usage of ramsar sites for openstreetmap.org
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:27:06 +0300

Greetings, many thanks for your message. As far as we are concerned, we
consider all of the Ramsar site data and products, including those that
Wetlands International prepares for us, to be in the public domain. We
only ask that the use of any data should be dated so that users can judge
the currency and accuracy.

Best regards, Dwight Peck.

**
Dwight Peck
Communications Officer
Ramsar Convention on Wetlands
Gland, Switzerland
p...@ramsar.org, www.ramsar.org


-Original Message-
From: Roman Neumüller [mailto:em...@katpatuka.org]
Sent: 22 September 2009 10:15
To: Ramsar Mailbox
Subject: Fwd: RE: shapefile usage of ramsar sites for openstreetmap.org

Hello,

I contacted Stephan Flink from wetlands.org to ask if openstreetmap.org
could make use of their shapefiles of Ramsar sites under Creative Commons
Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 license. He adviced me to ask the Ramsar
Secretariat to confirm that there are no restriction to use this data (see
correspondence below).

Please let me know if there are any legal restrictions in using the data.

Greetings
Roman Neumüller

--- Forwarded message ---
From: Flink, Stephan stephan.fl...@wetlands.org
To: Roman Neumüller em...@katpatuka.org
Cc:
Subject: RE: shapefile usage for openstreetmap.org
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:52:33 +0300

Dear Roman,

I'm not aware of any legal restrictions to display the shapefiles in OSM
other than the following ToU
(http://ramsar.wetlands.org/Home/tabid/719/ctl/Terms/Default.aspx). As
Wetlands International is the caretaker of all Ramsar Site information and
the ownership of the data lies with the Ramsar Secretariat in Switzerland
(ram...@ramsar.orgmailto:ram...@ramsar.org), I suggest contacting the
Secretariat to ensure that this is indeed the case.

Best wishes,

Stephan Flink

-Original Message-
From: Roman Neumüller [mailto:em...@katpatuka.org]
Sent: vrijdag 18 september 2009 16:14
To: Flink, Stephan
Subject: RFI: shapefile usage for openstreetmap.org

Hello Stephan,

I see that I can download shapefiles of Ramsar sites from wetlands.org.
Are there any legal restrictions for conversion and usage of these
shapefiles under the wiki map project http://openstreetmap.org (OSM)?

OSM's content is available under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike
2.0 license...

Greetings
Roman Neumüller
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.112/2387 - Release Date: 09/21/09 
17:55:00
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

2009-09-22 Thread John McKerrell

On 22 Sep 2009, at 08:55, Claudius wrote:

 Am 21.09.2009 23:45, John McKerrell:
 To try it out, head over to http://openstreetview.org/

 You'll need to sign up for an account, verify your email address and
 then log in.

 The most important question for me: Why don't you use OSM's own OAuth
 infrastructure [1]? I don't feel comfortable signing up at yet another
 site and I don't want you to having to deal with keeping your user's
 data safe besides coding.

I could say that when I started coding this OSM's OAuth support wasn't  
actually released but the more honest answer would be that doing it  
this way was easiest and hence quickest. I wanted to get something out  
there so that we can try this out and see how it goes. If you don't  
want to enter your details that's fine and understandable. The code is  
open source and available on github so anyone can add that support but  
I'll probably do it before long if noone else does and it's stopping  
people from signing up.

John

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Re: [OSM-talk] USB Serial converters - any recommendations?

2009-09-22 Thread Nick Whitelegg
 [snip mostly PL2303 recommendations]

Thanks for the replies on this.

My converter is a PL2303 based one, the kernel module detects it when it's 
plugged in, but... I can't get data out of it using gpsbabel, it reports 
Timeout - no data read or similar. 

Maybe I just got a cheap-and-nasty converter, despite it having the most 
compatible chipset.

Thanks,
Nick

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Re: [OSM-talk] USB Serial converters - any recommendations?

2009-09-22 Thread Liz
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
 Maybe I just got a cheap-and-nasty converter, despite it having the most
 compatible chipset.
that's why after failing with the aten, which will work in a newer kernel one 
day, i bought the belkin



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Re: [OSM-talk] sports=billiard and sports=snooker ?

2009-09-22 Thread Valent Turkovic
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:21:50 +, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/315158528
 
 I don't like stuff which forces me to split thing with ;. It's
 unsemantic.

I followed your lead and tagged it the same, I'll enter this in wiki so 
others have easier way of tagging billiard clubs.



-- 
pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt
http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/
linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless
registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org.
ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic


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Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?

2009-09-22 Thread Peteris Krisjanis
2009/9/22 Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com:
 Hi Peter
 I can suggest to add bridge's physical form to this. Otherwise yeah,
 why not. It would also help to indicate where bridge actually starts
 and ends to help routing software logic.


 Why would routing software need to know the extent of a bridge?

For routing software for example to say: Turn there, go across the
bridge and then after 100 meters go left?

Bridge is kinda very big object in every town or city. Giving
perspective where it starts and where it ends you give additional
information for routing software to inform it's user how to find
things relatively to the bridge.

 Cheers
 Dave F.

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-- 
mortigi tempo
Pēteris Krišjānis

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Re: [OSM-talk] good news: shapefile usage of ramsar sites for openstreetmap.org

2009-09-22 Thread Emilie Laffray
Roman Neumüller wrote:
 Good news: we can use the shapefiles of wetland.org (1)!
 :D

 Roman

 (1)
 http://ramsar.wetlands.org/GISMaps/DownloadGISdatasets/tabid/769/language/en-US/Default.aspx


Very nice!!!

Emilie Laffray



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Re: [OSM-talk] good news: shapefile usage of ramsar sites for openstreetmap.org

2009-09-22 Thread Jason Cunningham
I am worried there might be some copyright issues

The sites within the UK will probably have been mapped using the British
Ordnance Survey, and therefore should have copyright restrictions.

A quick internet search shows that data is available to download in the UK,
but with some conditions(?).
http://www.jncc.gov.uk/ProtectedSites/SACselection/gis_data/terms_conditions.asp

I think the status of the data needs to be very carefully checked.

Jason
user:jamicu



2009/9/22 Roman Neumüller r.neumul...@gmail.com

 Good news: we can use the shapefiles of wetland.org (1)!
 :D

 Roman

 (1)

 http://ramsar.wetlands.org/GISMaps/DownloadGISdatasets/tabid/769/language/en-US/Default.aspx

 --- Forwarded message ---
 From: PECK Dwight p...@ramsar.org
 To: Roman Neumüller em...@katpatuka.org
 Cc: stephan.fl...@wetlands.org stephan.fl...@wetlands.org
 Subject: RE: RE: shapefile usage of ramsar sites for openstreetmap.org
 Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:27:06 +0300

 Greetings, many thanks for your message. As far as we are concerned, we
 consider all of the Ramsar site data and products, including those that
 Wetlands International prepares for us, to be in the public domain. We
 only ask that the use of any data should be dated so that users can judge
 the currency and accuracy.

 Best regards, Dwight Peck.

 **
 Dwight Peck
 Communications Officer
 Ramsar Convention on Wetlands
 Gland, Switzerland
 p...@ramsar.org, www.ramsar.org


 -Original Message-
 From: Roman Neumüller [mailto:em...@katpatuka.org]
 Sent: 22 September 2009 10:15
 To: Ramsar Mailbox
 Subject: Fwd: RE: shapefile usage of ramsar sites for openstreetmap.org

 Hello,

 I contacted Stephan Flink from wetlands.org to ask if openstreetmap.org
 could make use of their shapefiles of Ramsar sites under Creative Commons
 Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 license. He adviced me to ask the Ramsar
 Secretariat to confirm that there are no restriction to use this data (see
 correspondence below).

 Please let me know if there are any legal restrictions in using the data.

 Greetings
 Roman Neumüller

 --- Forwarded message ---
 From: Flink, Stephan stephan.fl...@wetlands.org
 To: Roman Neumüller em...@katpatuka.org
 Cc:
 Subject: RE: shapefile usage for openstreetmap.org
 Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:52:33 +0300

 Dear Roman,

 I'm not aware of any legal restrictions to display the shapefiles in OSM
 other than the following ToU
 (http://ramsar.wetlands.org/Home/tabid/719/ctl/Terms/Default.aspx). As
 Wetlands International is the caretaker of all Ramsar Site information and
 the ownership of the data lies with the Ramsar Secretariat in Switzerland
 (ram...@ramsar.orgmailto:ram...@ramsar.org), I suggest contacting the
 Secretariat to ensure that this is indeed the case.

 Best wishes,

 Stephan Flink

 -Original Message-
 From: Roman Neumüller [mailto:em...@katpatuka.org]
 Sent: vrijdag 18 september 2009 16:14
 To: Flink, Stephan
 Subject: RFI: shapefile usage for openstreetmap.org

 Hello Stephan,

 I see that I can download shapefiles of Ramsar sites from wetlands.org.
 Are there any legal restrictions for conversion and usage of these
 shapefiles under the wiki map project http://openstreetmap.org (OSM)?

 OSM's content is available under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike
 2.0 license...

 Greetings
 Roman Neumüller
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[OSM-talk] OSMXAPI stable?

2009-09-22 Thread bernhard
Hi all

I would like to show the XAPI to my students.
But it seams that all XAPI Servers are very slow or out of function.

The students should learn something about Location Based Services and my 
idea was to show
how to retrieve Points of Interest from OSM.

With XAPI it would be easy:
wget 
http://www.informationfreeway.org/api/0.6/node[amenity=restaurant][bbox=15.5337,48.1732,15.7161,48.2362]
 
-o osm.xml


But if the XAPI is not working I have to cancel that.
Or is there a similar service I can use for that?

thanks

Bernhard

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSMXAPI stable?

2009-09-22 Thread Peter Körner
bernhard schrieb:
 Hi all
 
 I would like to show the XAPI to my students.
 But it seams that all XAPI Servers are very slow or out of function.
Or overloaded :) Maybe you could allocate a server at your university as 
another xapi server ;)

 The students should learn something about Location Based Services and my 
 idea was to show
 how to retrieve Points of Interest from OSM.
 
 With XAPI it would be easy:
 wget 
 http://www.informationfreeway.org/api/0.6/node[amenity=restaurant][bbox=15.5337,48.1732,15.7161,48.2362]
  
 -o osm.xml

 But if the XAPI is not working I have to cancel that.
The Query works for me. If you want to be sure, save a offline-version 
of the output for the worst-case.

 Or is there a similar service I can use for that?
You can use the default api's map-call to get *all* elements in a bbox 
and let your students filter it manually :)

Peter

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Re: [OSM-talk] good news: shapefile usage of ramsar sites for openstreetmap.org

2009-09-22 Thread Morten Kjeldgaard
Jason Cunningham wrote:

 I am worried there might be some copyright issues
 
 The sites within the UK will probably have been mapped using the British
 Ordnance Survey, and therefore should have copyright restrictions.

 I think the status of the data needs to be very carefully checked.

I am sorry, but I don't understand. Roman references an email from the
communications officer of Ramsar, and you are worried? You say the sites in
U.K. have probably been mapped by BOS? What kind of authority do you
represent to convince us that your concerns should be ours as well?

I would counter that the British government -- if they indeed stood for the
measurements of the data -- has probably signed copyright over to the
Ramsar organization.

You don't seriously believe that the Ramsar data has different copyrights
attached depending on what nation it comes from?

AFAIAC we've gotten the data to use with the only (very reasonable) premise
that it be dated. I think we should just say thank you and be very happy.

Cheers,
Morten

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSMXAPI stable?

2009-09-22 Thread Roland Olbricht
 But if the XAPI is not working I have to cancel that.
 Or is there a similar service I can use for that?

You can use OSM3S. Just send a post request with content

http://78.46.81.38/api/poi?bbox=15.5337,48.1732,15.7161,48.2362amenity=restaurant

You should receive a gzip-compressed osm file.
This request is a short cut for the request to

http://78.46.81.38/api/interpreter

with POST data:

osm-script timeout=180

query type=node
  bbox-query w=15.5337 s=48.1732 e=15.7161 n=48.2362/
  has-kv k=amenity v=restaurant/
/query
print mode=body/

/osm-script

A comprehensive (but not yet complete) documentation of OSM3S can be found at
http://78.46.81.38

Feel free to experiment with other queries or ask for other short cuts. 

Cheers,

Roland


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

2009-09-22 Thread malenki
John McKerrell wrote:

[a lot about OSV]

Questions: Housenumbers would not be a privacy problem I hope?

Because of privacy, selecting the relevant pictures and rotating them I
anyway review all the pictures before I upload them.

I quite often make photographs of the ground when the highways surface
changes, Parking place starts here, ands here - are these kind pictures
welcome also?

Are there kinds of pictures you would not like to see on your server?

Regards,
malenki


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Re: [OSM-talk] Map scale

2009-09-22 Thread Ed Avis
Tom Hughes tom at compton.nu writes:

I'm pretty sure there used to be a scale on the map[1] in the lower left
corner.  Yesterday I noticed it was no longer there.

Correct see http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/1704 for the reasons.

Would it be possible to show the scale bar for zoom levels 15 and above
(where scale is pretty constant, unless you have a freakishly large web
browser window) and omit it for lower zoom levels?

Or is the problem that it would need to change as you slip the map north
and south?

-- 
Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com


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Re: [OSM-talk] Map scale

2009-09-22 Thread Tom Hughes
On 22/09/09 16:45, Ed Avis wrote:
 Tom Hughestomat  compton.nu  writes:

 I'm pretty sure there used to be a scale on the map[1] in the lower left
 corner.  Yesterday I noticed it was no longer there.

 Correct see http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/1704 for the reasons.

 Would it be possible to show the scale bar for zoom levels 15 and above
 (where scale is pretty constant, unless you have a freakishly large web
 browser window) and omit it for lower zoom levels?

Scale is more or less constant across the viewport, yes, but not across 
the whole world.

 Or is the problem that it would need to change as you slip the map north
 and south?

Exactly.

Tom

-- 
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http://www.compton.nu/

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

2009-09-22 Thread malenki
malenki wrote:

[not enough :)]

It would be nice to have p...@openstreetmap.org on gmane.

For moderating photos: 
1) It would be handy to be able to see the pictures in full resolution
since its a difference if a car with licence plate is photographed with
a 320x240 cam of a mobile phone or with a 12MP SLR. The thumbnails
aren't much helpful there.

2) If there are just few people like me who log  photograph all day
long for OSM, soon it will be hard work moderating all the thousands of
pictures. At my most productive day I made 1740 of them...

Regards
malenki


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Re: [OSM-talk] [josm-dev] New JOSM Address Interpolation plugin

2009-09-22 Thread Mike N.
This was an attempt to create a titled horizontal rule.   Is there a
 native Swing component for this?

 I think a JSeparator is your friend there. Adding some indentation or
 border will make you even more happy there.

  I converted this to a conventional border.  Also, based on a suggestion, I 
reordered the inputs so that it can perform an autodetect of numbering 
scheme when entering the combo box.It only needs to be manually changed 
for the cases of both even or odd numbers for the 'all' numbering scheme.
 


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetView

2009-09-22 Thread malenki
malenki wrote:

[still not enough :)]

For moderating: right now I moderated several photos until I cam onto a
visible license plate. This I masked and added the tag licenceplate,
left the masking area, clicked mark as safe and save - and then an
error showed up:
| There was an error saving your changes

Now moderating is stuck at this one photo, I can't go on. Marking as
unsafe and saving the change gives no reaction of any kind.

Besides there seems to be no way (atm) to edit several pictures in a
row. MArking some and clicking mask sections showed up only the
first.

Regards
malenki
(I hope you don't mind me sing this thread fur bug reports.)


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSMXAPI stable?

2009-09-22 Thread Norbert Hoffmann
bernhard wrote:

But it seams that all XAPI Servers are very slow or out of function.

All ROMA and TRAPI servers seem to be (near) down. So the TaH clients all
connect to XAPI or API. This makes a) XAPI and (less) API slow and b)
brings the renderspeed down to about 200 Z12-tiles per hour.

Norbert

PS: Mumin doesn't show data for tah.openstreetmap since some days


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSMXAPI stable?

2009-09-22 Thread Jeremy Adams
 bernhard wrote:
 
 But it seams that all XAPI Servers are very slow or out of function.
 
 All ROMA and TRAPI servers seem to be (near) down. So the TaH clients
 all
 connect to XAPI or API. This makes a) XAPI and (less) API slow and b)
 brings the renderspeed down to about 200 Z12-tiles per hour.
 
 Norbert
 
 PS: Mumin doesn't show data for tah.openstreetmap since some days

This is correct.  Mat's server went down last week for a database rebuild.
It should have been back online by now, so maybe he's having trouble.

My server is several hours behind atm.  I believe it's caused by the NHD
data that's being imported.  This is slowing down the update process so much
that it sometimes takes 2 - 3 minutes or more to apply one of the minute
updates.  I've contacted Blars to see if we can figure something out to
speed the process up, but for now we'll have to wait it out.

-Jeremy



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[OSM-talk] feasibility - different use of openstreetmap

2009-09-22 Thread Tim Litwiller
Introduction:
For my work we have a need for mapping fields agricultural sections of 
land for growing crops. We already put the legal description of the land 
in the our invoicing \ work order system and other information about the 
field, but we need a way to quickly print a high quality aerial photo of 
the section that the land is in and the outline of the field.  I only 
need to cover 10 counties in central Kansas at least to start with, and 
I can get the free US Gov aerial photography and the field outlines from 
USDA.

Question:
Would it be possible/feasible to setup a map server like openstreetmap 
that shows all the street/roads along with my aerial photography and 
field outlines, and then make a search for the field by customer, by 
legal description or by field name?


If this in not the correct group for this, then what group would I ask 
this question? I realize the your system is about street and I want to 
misuse it for land areas, but it is such a nice system and looks like a 
great framework to start building what I need from.


Thanks

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Re: [OSM-talk] feasibility - different use of openstreetmap

2009-09-22 Thread Ciarán Mooney
Hi,

 If this in not the correct group for this, then what group would I ask
 this question? I realize the your system is about street and I want to
 misuse it for land areas, but it is such a nice system and looks like a
 great framework to start building what I need from.

I'm afraid I don't have an answer to your question. However you are
not misusing OSM! We care about all geographic features, the name
OpenStreetMap is has become a bit of a misnomer.

I'm sure someone will be along soon with an answer to your actual question.

Ciarán

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Re: [OSM-talk] feasibility - different use of openstreetmap

2009-09-22 Thread Dave F.
Tim Litwiller wrote:
 Introduction:
 For my work we have a need for mapping fields agricultural sections of 
 land for growing crops. We already put the legal description of the land 
 in the our invoicing \ work order system and other information about the 
 field, but we need a way to quickly print a high quality aerial photo of 
 the section that the land is in and the outline of the field.  I only 
 need to cover 10 counties in central Kansas at least to start with, and 
 I can get the free US Gov aerial photography and the field outlines from 
 USDA.

   
I'm afraid I don't have your answer either Tim, But I'm interested that 
you got field outlines.
One thing the UK is missing in rural areas are these.
I guess the UK equivalent would be DEFRA? Does anybody know if they have 
this data?

Cheers
Dave F.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Should Bridges be independent of their ways?

2009-09-22 Thread Roy Wallace
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
 Camp one is - single way with lanes=4 + bridge section
 Camp two would prefer all elements mapped in which case the bridge WOULD
 be a separate element.

 Camp three: multiple ways representing paths of travel, grouped with a
 bridge relation to indicate they share a common bridge. This could
 probably be seen as a compromise, and is (I think) a good interim
 solution, if not a very-long-term solution.

 That is simply camp two ...
 The bridge relation would have to have a physical presence at some point!

In that case, just to clarify, I meant
Camp 2a) All elements mapped with the bridge as a *separate* element
(e.g. an area, not a relation)
Camp 2b) All elements mapped with the bridge as a grouping of elements
(a relation, including the ways on the bridge and optionally the area
indicating the bridge surface, etc.)

These are both covered by
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Bridges_and_Tunnels

 The point I am trying to make is that the two camps HAVE to co-exist.
 What we are looking for is a way to 'rough in' the data, and provide a
 macro level view of things, and then add the NECESSARY detail below that
 so that micro mapping can simply be added to the macro model.

Agreed.

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Re: [OSM-talk] feasibility - different use of openstreetmap

2009-09-22 Thread Jukka Rahkonen
Dave F. davefox at madasafish.com writes:


 I'm afraid I don't have your answer either Tim, But I'm interested that 
 you got field outlines.
 One thing the UK is missing in rural areas are these.
 I guess the UK equivalent would be DEFRA? Does anybody know if they have 
 this data?

Every EU country must have Land Parcel Identification System (LPIS).  Almost all
countries base it on orthophotos, which must be pretty accurate (RMSE 2.5 m)
and no more than five years old. An example from Czech republic is good reading
as an introduction http://www.lpis.cz/index_en.html. In short, very fine images
exist, as well as very accurate data about actively used fieds. In most coutries
neither images nor field parcel data are free but they can be used only for
administrating and controlling farmer subsidies.


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[OSM-talk] routing - US interstate type junction -Wichita, KS

2009-09-22 Thread Tim Litwiller
There is a junction on the north end of Wichita KS, that does not route 
correctly in the southbound direction.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.7627lon=-97.3218zoom=14layers=B000FTF

I downloaded the openstreetmap for Garmin from na1400.info and noticed 
it there so I tried the same navigation from 
http://www.yournavigation.org/ and it did the same thing. I added 
bridges to this intersections map a few days ago - but the na1400.info 
data doesn't have my changes yet. I have looked at the tags on the 
sections of the road and don't see anything unusual.

cloudmade.com seems to have an older version of the data and on there 
the routing works.

I would like to fix this and if I messed it up I apologize and want to 
learn from this so it doesn't happen again.
If someone has time to find the problem - please let me know what it is.

Thanks



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Re: [OSM-talk] feasibility - different use of openstreetmap

2009-09-22 Thread Richard Weait
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Tim Litwiller t...@litwiller.net wrote:
 Introduction:
 For my work we have a need for mapping fields agricultural sections of
 land for growing crops. We already put the legal description of the land
 in the our invoicing \ work order system and other information about the
 field, but we need a way to quickly print a high quality aerial photo of
 the section that the land is in and the outline of the field.  I only
 need to cover 10 counties in central Kansas at least to start with, and
 I can get the free US Gov aerial photography and the field outlines from
 USDA.

Interesting background and use case.  Thank you for sharing.

 Question:
 Would it be possible/feasible to setup a map server like openstreetmap
 that shows all the street/roads along with my aerial photography and
 field outlines, and then make a search for the field by customer, by
 legal description or by field name?

Yes.  Absolutely.  And provide it all as a web interface either with
or without usernames and passwords.

Many folks are doing similar things.  Here is a site that will print a
pdf map of a city for you with OSM data and an index.

http://www.maposmatic.org/

You'll change a few things.  You'll layer aerial images under the road
info.  You'll search on customer / field information rather than city
names.  And you'll only work in Kansas instead of France.  ;-)

Sounds like fun!

 If this in not the correct group for this, then what group would I ask
 this question? I realize the your system is about street and I want to
 misuse it for land areas, but it is such a nice system and looks like a
 great framework to start building what I need from.

This is not misuse!  ;-)  ... such as street maps... is just one
popular use.

From the front page of the wiki:
OpenStreetMap creates and provides free geographic data such as
street maps to anyone who wants them. The project was started because
most maps you think of as free actually have legal or technical
restrictions on their use, holding back people from using them in
creative, productive, or unexpected ways. 

Best regards,
Richard

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Re: [OSM-talk] routing - US interstate type junction -Wichita, KS

2009-09-22 Thread Mike N.
One thing I see at that intersection is that where the roads split with the
connector to 254, the southeastern link appears to be tagged wrong.   If you
start from the north, working south:

  A way named as carrying US 81, State 15 and State 96.   Also relation
named 135 south.
  Split with a connection to 254  -  Problem
  US 81, etc also continues south.

  The problem connector is also named US81...etc, as well as containing the
routing relation 135 South.   I believe that is what disrupted the routing.

--
From: Tim Litwiller t...@litwiller.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:04 PM
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [OSM-talk] routing - US interstate type junction -Wichita, KS

 There is a junction on the north end of Wichita KS, that does not route
 correctly in the southbound direction.

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.7627lon=-97.3218zoom=14layers=B000FTF

 


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Re: [OSM-talk] routing - US interstate type junction -Wichita, KS

2009-09-22 Thread Mike N.

  The problem connector is also named US81...etc, as well as containing the
 routing relation 135 South.   I believe that is what disrupted the 
 routing.

  A further clarification - the connection from 81 to 254 would be a 
secondary_link , since the road to which it connects is secondary.If it 
connected with another motorway, the connecting road would be a 
motorway_link.

  A *_link way usually does not have a name except for unusual cases.

   As an option (not required for routing), if the connection to 254 is 
marked as an exit, you would place a motorway_junction and enter the name(s) 
as shown on the sign, separated by semicolons, and the exit number. 
Another option is to add a 'ref' tag to the secondary_link with just the 
exit number.   Eventually turn-by-turn instructions could make use of that 
information.

 


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Re: [OSM-talk] routing - US interstate type junction -Wichita, KS

2009-09-22 Thread Richard Weait
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Tim Litwiller t...@litwiller.net wrote:
 There is a junction on the north end of Wichita KS, that does not route
 correctly in the southbound direction.

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.7627lon=-97.3218zoom=14layers=B000FTF

 I downloaded the openstreetmap for Garmin from na1400.info and noticed
 it there so I tried the same navigation from
 http://www.yournavigation.org/ and it did the same thing. I added
 bridges to this intersections map a few days ago - but the na1400.info
 data doesn't have my changes yet. I have looked at the tags on the
 sections of the road and don't see anything unusual.

 cloudmade.com seems to have an older version of the data and on there
 the routing works.

 I would like to fix this and if I messed it up I apologize and want to
 learn from this so it doesn't happen again.
 If someone has time to find the problem - please let me know what it is.


where 254 W ramp merges into 81 S, there was an errant node that
required a 178 degree turn left, then 178 degree turn right after a
few yards.  This was bad for my neck at 70 MPH, so I removed it.  ;-)
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/505128415/history

That sort of thing happens to me when I edit with potlatch and fumble
the mouse.  Not an analogy.

If you are fixing TIGER stuff, remove the tiger:reviewed=no tags, or
change them to yes.

I consider layer=0 redundant and leave it out.  Others don't.  ;-)

Interstates, US Routes, State Routes, anything with a highway shield
sign, should have a ref=number, so I-254 is ref=254

TIGER had nodes that joined each overpass to each road passing below.
Detach those nodes, then delete them.  If they add important shape,
move them enough that they don't overlap.

None of this should break routing.though.

There are a couple of typos lay=0

Do you ever change from a layer to a layer more than +/-1?  I wonder
if that will break routing?

Have fun!

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[OSM-talk] The OpenStreetMap website is now translatable at Translatewiki

2009-09-22 Thread Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
The main OpenStreetMap website (http://openstreetmap.org) can now be
translated on the web using Translatewiki. I originally floated the
idea in July[1] and after meeting up with the maintainers of
Translatewiki at Wikimania 2009[2] we made it happen. Nikerabbit and
Siebrand (Translatewiki guys) have done some great work on making this
happen.

If you want to translate OpenStreetMap site you can now do so at the
Translatewiki site:

http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:OpenStreetMap

Since it was imported yesterday from the OpenStreetMap SVN server
we've had 1500 edits to the translations by 10 different users. 9 of
those are to languages that didn't have translations already (although
they're still small):

 Stats for yesterday:
http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Translating:OpenStreetMap/stats/trunkoldid=1521779
 Stats for today:
http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Translating:OpenStreetMap/stats/trunkoldid=1527284
 Stats for *now*:
http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:OpenStreetMap/stats/trunk

These translations aren't automatically being synced back to the
OpenStreetMap SVN repository yet. Me and Nikerabbit have been fixing
bugs in the import/export process required to make this happen. Those
bugs don't affect translations on Translatewiki.net, but it might be a
few days before we can start committing back so the translated strings
will show up on the OpenStreetMap site.

So please go to Translatewiki and help make OpenStreetMap available in
your language!

1. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2009-July/016127.html
2. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2009-August/016707.html

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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] The OpenStreetMap website is now translatable at Translatewiki

2009-09-22 Thread Eugene Alvin Villar
This is great!

But which OSM components does this cover? I'm assuming this only covers the
main OSM website (and the wiki indirectly since MediaWiki is already in
TranslateWiki) but not Potlatch, and the other editors.


On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 7:13 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
ava...@gmail.comwrote:

 The main OpenStreetMap website (http://openstreetmap.org) can now be
 translated on the web using Translatewiki. I originally floated the
 idea in July[1] and after meeting up with the maintainers of
 Translatewiki at Wikimania 2009[2] we made it happen. Nikerabbit and
 Siebrand (Translatewiki guys) have done some great work on making this
 happen.

 If you want to translate OpenStreetMap site you can now do so at the
 Translatewiki site:

http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:OpenStreetMap

 Since it was imported yesterday from the OpenStreetMap SVN server
 we've had 1500 edits to the translations by 10 different users. 9 of
 those are to languages that didn't have translations already (although
 they're still small):

  Stats for yesterday:

 http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Translating:OpenStreetMap/stats/trunkoldid=1521779
  Stats for today:

 http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Translating:OpenStreetMap/stats/trunkoldid=1527284
  Stats for *now*:
 http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:OpenStreetMap/stats/trunk

 These translations aren't automatically being synced back to the
 OpenStreetMap SVN repository yet. Me and Nikerabbit have been fixing
 bugs in the import/export process required to make this happen. Those
 bugs don't affect translations on Translatewiki.net, but it might be a
 few days before we can start committing back so the translated strings
 will show up on the OpenStreetMap site.

 So please go to Translatewiki and help make OpenStreetMap available in
 your language!

 1. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2009-July/016127.html
 2. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2009-August/016707.html

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Re: [OSM-talk] routing - US interstate type junction -Wichita, KS

2009-09-22 Thread David Lynch
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 16:55, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote:

  The problem connector is also named US81...etc, as well as containing the
 routing relation 135 South.   I believe that is what disrupted the
 routing.

  A further clarification - the connection from 81 to 254 would be a
 secondary_link , since the road to which it connects is secondary.    If it
 connected with another motorway, the connecting road would be a
 motorway_link.

Actually, I'd say that the most common method (and what it sounds like
the map features page on the wiki says) is to tag the higher of the
two road classes for *_link, rather than the class of the road being
connected to. So the correct tag would be motorway_link when leaving
or joining a motorway regardless of the class of the other road,
trunk_link if one road is a trunk and the other is anything other than
motorway, and so on.

It also looks like, from what I can see on aerial photos, the
highway=motorway designation could apply further east for another
couple miles, but I'll let someone with local knowledge make the
decision there.

-- 
David J. Lynch
djly...@gmail.com

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Re: [talk-au] Australian bushwalking tracks

2009-09-22 Thread John Smith
2009/9/22 Liz ed...@billiau.net:
 This is probably redundant, but water supplies should have a point
 identifier. If you are prepared to drink stream or river water, I hope
 you have what you need to make it safe.

Depends where it is coming from, but dad always used to say if the
horses would drink it, it was safe for us to drink. :)

 As for the suitability for bike or walking use, anyplace you can walk
 too, I can get my bicycle. I would appreciate things like staircases
 being marked, but I can walk them. If it is in the city and it has
 disabled access, I don't have to get off my bicycle.

If you are bored enough you can also enter the number of steps, and I
think it was on the main talk list but you should have the direction
of the way from bottom to top of the stairs.

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Re: [talk-au] Distributing Garmin maps

2009-09-22 Thread John Henderson
John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:

  The only requirement is that you attribute the data to OSM.

Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:

  In a manner suited to the medium you need to acknowledge the licence.
  The stuff I've put onto my Garmin has OSM on the map page of
  settings so that would be fine.
  Not exactly sure how it gets there, though.

Thanks John and Liz.

I'll make sure the acknowledgement is loud and clear.

The map I'm producing now show up on the Garmin as OSM street map, Area 
63240001, Sep 2009.  I'm using mkgmap to prepare it, and 63240001.img 
is an intermediate file produced on the way to the gmapsupp.img final 
Garmin file.  So that label is applied somehow by mkgmap in my case.

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Re: [talk-au] Distributing Garmin maps

2009-09-22 Thread Matt White
John Henderson wrote:
 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:

   The only requirement is that you attribute the data to OSM.

 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:

   In a manner suited to the medium you need to acknowledge the licence.
   The stuff I've put onto my Garmin has OSM on the map page of
   settings so that would be fine.
   Not exactly sure how it gets there, though.

 Thanks John and Liz.

 I'll make sure the acknowledgement is loud and clear.
   
I think I've been popping something like copyright OpenStreetMap.org 
CC-by-SA on the maps I've been making... or something like that. On the 
wrong computer at the moment...

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Re: [talk-au] Australian bushwalking tracks

2009-09-22 Thread James Livingston
On 22/09/2009, at 5:56 PM, John Smith wrote:
 If you are bored enough you can also enter the number of steps, and I
 think it was on the main talk list but you should have the direction
 of the way from bottom to top of the stairs.

Regardless of what the talk list may have said, I think that half of  
the existing steps in the database are mapped in the ascending  
direction and half are mapped in the descending direction. So as the  
wiki page suggests, I'd tag direction=up/down on them.

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Re: [talk-au] Our own satellite imagery?

2009-09-22 Thread Liz
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, Matt White wrote:
 So what does the commercial imagery cost? I don't even know who supplies
 itor what the licensing is like
In my mailbox today
www.aerialimpressions.com.au
We are conducting aerial photography in your area over the next 4 weeks
Save $200 Now $119 Receive 10 proofs of your home or property for just $119 
(incl GST)


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Re: [talk-au] Our own satellite imagery?

2009-09-22 Thread Liz
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Liz wrote:
 In my mailbox today
 www.aerialimpressions.com.au
 We are conducting aerial photography in your area over the next 4 weeks
 Save $200 Now $119 Receive 10 proofs of your home or property for just
 $119 (incl GST)
 http://aerialimpressions.com.au/gallery/twnTN010.jpg

looks quite usable for our purposes
but of course its copyright :-(


and here is the commercial cost
New Aerial Survey System
 We now have a new mapping system allowing us to shoot full surveys of any 
area. Pricing for this service starts at $50 per Sq Km ( 20 Sq Km Min.)

When we have a legal entity then we can start negotiating with companies like 
this for use of their photos

 


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Re: [talk-au] Our own satellite imagery?

2009-09-22 Thread Liz
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Liz wrote:
  http://aerialimpressions.com.au/gallery/twnTN010.jpg

 looks quite usable for our purposes
sorry, if you get to that image from the website, with the same name you get a 
reasonable size file not a thumbnail


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Re: [talk-au] Our own satellite imagery?

2009-09-22 Thread Matt White
Liz wrote:
 On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Liz wrote:
   
 In my mailbox today
 www.aerialimpressions.com.au
 We are conducting aerial photography in your area over the next 4 weeks
 Save $200 Now $119 Receive 10 proofs of your home or property for just
 $119 (incl GST)
 http://aerialimpressions.com.au/gallery/twnTN010.jpg
 

 looks quite usable for our purposes
 but of course its copyright :-(
   
At least one of their products is marked as copyright free... (Aerial 
Photography CDROM of Melbourne)

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Re: [talk-au] Our own satellite imagery?

2009-09-22 Thread John Smith
2009/9/22 Liz ed...@billiau.net:
 On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Liz wrote:
  http://aerialimpressions.com.au/gallery/twnTN010.jpg

 looks quite usable for our purposes
 sorry, if you get to that image from the website, with the same name you get a
 reasonable size file not a thumbnail

http://www.aerialimpressions.com.au/gallery/twn010.jpg

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Re: [talk-au] Our own satellite imagery?

2009-09-22 Thread John Smith
2009/9/22 Liz ed...@billiau.net:
 and here is the commercial cost
 New Aerial Survey System
  We now have a new mapping system allowing us to shoot full surveys of any
 area. Pricing for this service starts at $50 per Sq Km ( 20 Sq Km Min.)

Tad more expensive that sat imagery, wonder what they charge for
archive imagery.

 When we have a legal entity then we can start negotiating with companies like
 this for use of their photos

Did you or anyone else have a chance to look over the association
rules, if so was there anything I missed? or something that should
have been in there?

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Re: [talk-au] Fixed map image for city wiki page?

2009-09-22 Thread James Andrewartha
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Ben Kelley wrote:

 There is no reference to an image in the body text of the page. That's what 
 I'm getting at. How does the image get there? How
 is it included?

It's included from this template code on the third line of the source:
 
{{place|name=Sydney|type=City|area=Australia|image=Image:Sydney0708.png|lat=-33.8626|long=151.209|zoom=11}}

James Andrewartha


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[talk-au] Graphical view of postcodes

2009-09-22 Thread John Smith
I've quickly made up a simple OSM style sheet to show town/postcode
names and shaded postcode areas, green ones have been reviewed, red
haven't been reviewed and blank areas haven't been imported.

http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=7ll=-32.836,147.697layer=00B00FF

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] [Fwd: [Osmf-talk] Fwd: Local Chapter Working Group Update - Looking for Volunteers]

2009-09-22 Thread Thomas Bibby
Hi all,

Just wanted to bump the issue of a local chapter, prompted by the
announcement of postcodes today [1].

It seems to me that precisely now is the time for a group to be established
and (amongst other things) meet with the Minister and press for the postcode
database to be freely available, as well as other data held by OSi and other
state agencies.

Otherwise we could have a situation like in the UK where the database is
copyrighted and a huge amount of volunteer effort is required to create a
free alternative.  OK postcodes may not form part of the map per se, but
free postcodes when combined with free maps offer lots of interesting
possibilities.

Equally, government agencies hold data that, if freely available (under an
appropriate licence), could take the Ireland OSM project forward by many
years.

I'm not aware of any other group that is applying pressure on our government
to free our data.  It seems like we're nearly there [2],[3], but that the
licence offered specifically states non-commercial (link is broken on the
Department's site).

Even if there are only a few people interested, I think it is worth setting
up a local chapter of OSM in Ireland, and I'm certainly willing to draft a
constitution/set up a website/act as secretary/whatever else is necessary.

I can't see any evidence of any further work being done by the OSM
Foundation on this since the post in December 2008, but I don't see this as
something we should wait for (and we could always set up the group anyway,
possibly not using the OSM name if necessary)

Maybe getting our government to release free data is unlikely, but the
benefit that it would provide to the OSM project (and indeed society as a
whole) means that giving it a try is worth the effort, and I believe an
approach as a group is the most appropriate one.

I appreciate that others have done much more thinking about datasets and
licences than I have, and would appreciate any feedback or thoughts.

Cheers,

Thomas.

[1] http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0922/1224254988303.html
[2] http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Spatial+Data/
[3] see comment at http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/?p=163
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Re: [Talk-br] Importação IBGE - Municípios do RS

2009-09-22 Thread Rodrigo de Avila

Claudomiro Nascimento Junior escreveu:

Senhores,

Não consigo forçar a renderização das fronteiras. E o pior é que a 
fronteira Brasil/Uruguai que eu editei para usar os novos dados acabou 
sumindo da camada mapnik (apesar dos dados estarem no BD 
corretamente). O jeito é esperar um refresh completo do mapa.
Para o Osmarender, estava aparecendo até pouco tempo, numa região que eu 
renderizei. Mas agora não está mais aparecendo.


Em tempo: quando eu puxo uma área pequena pelo 'Exportar...' do osm.org, 
vem td certinho. Mas quando puxo uma área grande pelo osmxapi, tem 
alguns caminhos que não aparecem. Aparecem alguns pontos do caminho, mas 
não o caminho inteiro.


Isto acontece com algum de vocês também?

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+55 51 9733.3488 . rodr...@avila.eti.br mailto:rodr...@avila.eti.br . 
www.avila.eti.br http://www.avila.eti.br


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Re: [Talk-br] Natal, região Nordeste e apresenta ção

2009-09-22 Thread Junior, Claudomiro
Bem vindo Braulio,
 
Então não vai ser difícil deixar Natal como a cidade mais bem mapeada do NE, 
não? :-)
 
[]s

  _  

From: talk-br-boun...@openstreetmap.org 
[mailto:talk-br-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Bráulio Bezerra da Silva
Sent: terça-feira, 22 de setembro de 2009 13:33
To: OpenStreetMap Brasil
Subject: [Talk-br] Natal, região Nordeste e apresentação


Saudações a todos,

   Meu nome é Bráulio, sou estudante de Engenharia de Computação da UFRN e 
estou mapeando a cidade de Natal desde sexta passada. E eu aceito: estou 
viciado. Não tenho GPS, mas as imagens do Yahoo são o suficiente por enquanto. 
O trabalho está sendo muito prazeroso por várias razões.
Há mais alguém da região nordeste aqui? Não ouvi falar em ninguém, vendo os 
arquivos dessa lista. As seguintes cidades já têm algumas ruas além das BRs e 
das rodovias estaduais (que foram importadas do IBGE, pelo que eu entendi):
- Maceió, Feira de Santana, Fortaleza, Vitória da Conquista e Natal.
A maior surpresa foi Feira de Santana, com o seu grande anel circular em 
volta da cidade e um número imenso de ruas. Bem que o responsável por isso 
poderia se apresentar, se ele estiver por aqui. As capitais que não têm quase 
nada ainda são:
- Recife, Salvador, Aracaju, João Pessoa, Teresina e São Luiz
É muito pouco. Recife principalmente, que eu achei que seria a cidade mais 
completa do nordeste, não tem absolutamente nada mapeado.

Bem, é isso, por enquanto. Tenham uma boa semana

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Re: [Talk-br] Natal, região Nordeste e apresenta ção

2009-09-22 Thread Arlindo Pereira
Seja bem-vindo, Bráulio!

É, o OpenStreetMap vicia mesmo. ;)

[]

2009/9/22 Bráulio Bezerra da Silva brauliobeze...@gmail.com

 Saudações a todos,

Meu nome é Bráulio, sou estudante de Engenharia de Computação da UFRN e
 estou mapeando a cidade de Natal desde sexta passada. E eu aceito: estou
 viciado. Não tenho GPS, mas as imagens do Yahoo são o suficiente por
 enquanto. O trabalho está sendo muito prazeroso por várias razões.
 Há mais alguém da região nordeste aqui? Não ouvi falar em ninguém,
 vendo os arquivos dessa lista. As seguintes cidades já têm algumas ruas além
 das BRs e das rodovias estaduais (que foram importadas do IBGE, pelo que eu
 entendi):
 - Maceió, Feira de Santana, Fortaleza, Vitória da Conquista e Natal.
 A maior surpresa foi Feira de Santana, com o seu grande anel circular
 em volta da cidade e um número imenso de ruas. Bem que o responsável por
 isso poderia se apresentar, se ele estiver por aqui. As capitais que não têm
 quase nada ainda são:
 - Recife, Salvador, Aracaju, João Pessoa, Teresina e São Luiz
 É muito pouco. Recife principalmente, que eu achei que seria a cidade
 mais completa do nordeste, não tem absolutamente nada mapeado.

 Bem, é isso, por enquanto. Tenham uma boa semana

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-- 
Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr.

Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br
Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com

Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br
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[Talk-br] Feliz Aniversário Lista!

2009-09-22 Thread Claudomiro Nascimento Junior
Pena que não me lembrei disso antes, mas dia 11 fez um ano que o Vitor criou
essa lista...

Happy, happy!

Quantos usuarios já temos?
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Re: [Talk-br] Feliz Aniversário Lista!

2009-09-22 Thread Vitor George
Legal!

Passou muito rápido!

Parabéns aos 32 membros da lista! ;)


2009/9/22 Claudomiro Nascimento Junior claudom...@claudomiro.com

 Pena que não me lembrei disso antes, mas dia 11 fez um ano que o Vitor
 criou essa lista...

 Happy, happy!

 Quantos usuarios já temos?

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Re: [Talk-br] Feliz Aniversário Lista!

2009-09-22 Thread Bráulio Bezerra da Silva
E quantas ruas e pontos de interesse o Brasil tem? Temos que começar a
dividir...

2009/9/22 Vitor George vitor.geo...@gmail.com

 Legal!

 Passou muito rápido!

 Parabéns aos 32 membros da lista! ;)


 2009/9/22 Claudomiro Nascimento Junior claudom...@claudomiro.com

 Pena que não me lembrei disso antes, mas dia 11 fez um ano que o Vitor
 criou essa lista...

 Happy, happy!

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[Talk-br] Site do OpenStreetMap agora é traduz ível no Translatewiki

2009-09-22 Thread Vitor George
Oi pessoal,

Agora as traduções do site principal serão feitas no translatewiki.

Talvez agora fique um pouco mais fácil de manter a tradução integrada.

Abs,
Vitor

-- Forwarded message --
From: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 8:13 PM
Subject: [OSM-dev] The OpenStreetMap website is now translatable at
Translatewiki
To: OpenStreetMap t...@openstreetmap.org, OpenStreetMap development 
d...@openstreetmap.org, OpenStreetMap local contacts 
local-conta...@openstreetmap.org, mediawiki-i...@lists.wikimedia.org


The main OpenStreetMap website (http://openstreetmap.org) can now be
translated on the web using Translatewiki. I originally floated the
idea in July[1] and after meeting up with the maintainers of
Translatewiki at Wikimania 2009[2] we made it happen. Nikerabbit and
Siebrand (Translatewiki guys) have done some great work on making this
happen.

If you want to translate OpenStreetMap site you can now do so at the
Translatewiki site:

   http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:OpenStreetMap

Since it was imported yesterday from the OpenStreetMap SVN server
we've had 1500 edits to the translations by 10 different users. 9 of
those are to languages that didn't have translations already (although
they're still small):

 Stats for yesterday:
http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Translating:OpenStreetMap/stats/trunkoldid=1521779
 Stats for today:
http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Translating:OpenStreetMap/stats/trunkoldid=1527284
 Stats for *now*:
http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:OpenStreetMap/stats/trunk

These translations aren't automatically being synced back to the
OpenStreetMap SVN repository yet. Me and Nikerabbit have been fixing
bugs in the import/export process required to make this happen. Those
bugs don't affect translations on Translatewiki.net, but it might be a
few days before we can start committing back so the translated strings
will show up on the OpenStreetMap site.

So please go to Translatewiki and help make OpenStreetMap available in
your language!

1. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2009-July/016127.html
2. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2009-August/016707.html

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Re: [Talk-is] Beðni um aðstoð Fisfélagsins vi ð að taka loftmyndir af Höfuðborgarsvæð inu fyrir OpenStreetMap

2009-09-22 Thread Thorir Jonsson
Í AIP (Flugmálahandbókinni - sjá hér
http://www.caa.is/FlugmalahandbokinAIP/AeronauticalInformationPublication/)
síðu BIRK AD 2-19 lið 2.23.2 stendur:

2.23.2 Flug fisa í flugstjórnarsviði BIRK

Fisum er einungis heimilt að fljúga gegnum flugstjórnarsvið BIRK á
leið til og frá flugæfingasvæðinu Sletta.  Öll önnur flug fisa í
flugstjórnarsviði BIRK er háð undanþágu frá yfirflugumferðarstjóra.
Beiðni um undanþágu skal berast með 24 tíma fyrirvara milli 08:00 og
16:00 virka daga.  Yfirflugumferðarstjóri getur sett takmarkanir á
heimild sína.  Gerð er krafa um talstöð og að flugmenn hafi hlotið
þjálfun í talstöðvaviðskiptum við flugumfeðarstjórn.


Vid thyrftum thví ad fá adstod einhvers sem er med talstöd í fisinu
sínu (og sjálfsagt væri ekki verra ef vidkomandi hefdi ratsjársvara -
hann er líka naudsynlegur ef vid viljum taka svædid í kringum BIKF).
Er einhver hér sem uppfyllir thessar kröfur og er tilbúinn ad adstoda
vid svona loftmyndatöku?

Bestu kvedjur,
Thórir Már

p.s. afsakid skortinn á Íslenskum stöfum, en thetta er skrifad med
dönsku lyklabordi.



2009/9/20 Þórir Tryggvason tho...@tmail.is:
 Þeir eru nú engu að síður mjög duglegir að fljúga hérna yfir Grafarholtið þó
 það sé takmarkað... :)

 /ÞT

 2009/9/19 Ágúst Guðmundsson a...@teigar.net

 Flugstjórnarsvið Reykjavíkur sem er um 12km frá miðju
 Reykjavíkurflugvallar er takmörkuð umferð allra flugfara, fisa sérstaklega.
 Auk þess er takmörkun yfir þéttbýl svæði borga og bæja.

 Þetta er í reglugerðum.

 Kveðja
 Ágúst

 -Original Message-
 From: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason [mailto:ava...@gmail.com]
 Sent: 19. september 2009 19:29
 To: Ágúst Guðmundsson
 Cc: Arni Geirsson; si...@isb.is; Hans Kr.. Gudmundsson; e...@skapa.is;
 OpenStreetMap in Iceland
 Subject: Re: Beðni um aðstoð Fisfélagsins við að taka loftmyndir af
 Höfuðborgarsvæðinu fyrir OpenStreetMap

 Það vissi ég ekki. En loftmyndir af öðrum svæðum væri gott að hafa líka.

 Hvar er hægt að nálgast reglugerðirnar um þetta? Á þetta við um allt byggt
 ból á höfuðborgarsvæðinu eða Reykjavíkurborg sérstaklega?

 2009/9/19 Ágúst Guðmundsson a...@teigar.net:
  Fis mega ekki fljúga yfir höfuðborginni nema með sérstöku leyfi.
  Það gæti verið áhugi einhverra með önnur svæði en höfuðborgina sjálfa.
 
  Kveðja
  Ágúst
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason [mailto:ava...@gmail.com]
  Sent: 19. september 2009 17:42
  To: Ágúst Guðmundsson; Arni Geirsson; si...@isb.is; Hans Kr..
  Gudmundsson; e...@skapa.is
  Cc: OpenStreetMap in Iceland; Postlisti Fisfelags Reykjavikur
  Subject: Re: Beðni um aðstoð Fisfélagsins við að taka loftmyndir af
  Höfuðborgarsvæðinu fyrir OpenStreetMap
 
  Hérna er dæmi um fólk sem gerði svona í Stratford á Englandi fyrir
  nokkrum dögum síðan:
 
     http://milliams.com/verticalitymetre/map.html
 
  Hægt er að smella á punktana til að sjá myndir.
 
  Hérna er bloggpóstur um málið:
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Milliams/diary/7969
 
  En hvernig er það, er einhver í þessu félagi sem hefur áhuga fyrir þessu
  eða er ég að tala fyrir óháhugasömum eyrum?
 
  2009/9/5 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com:
  Hæ öllsömul.
 
  Fyrir það fyrsta: Ég sendi þennan póst á þá sem voru listaðir sem
  Tengiliðir á fisflug.is sem eru stjórnarmeðlimir félagsins. Ég vissi
  ekki betur og það getur vel verið að annar vettvangur eigi betur við.
 
  En til að koma mér að efninu. Ævar heiti ég og hef samband við ykkur
  því að í frítíma mínum legg ég til gögn í OpenStreetMap verkefnið:
 
  http://is.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap
 
  OpenStreetMap er frjáls (og ókepis) kortagrunnur af öllum heiminum
  (þ.á.m. Íslandi) sem hver sem er getur lagt gögn í og tekið gögn úr
  sér að kostnaðarlausu. Við erum komin með ágætis kort af Íslandi
  eftir nokkura ára framlög nokkura einstaklinga:
 
  http://osm.org/go/e1obM--
 
  hér má t.d. sjá höfuðborgarsvæðið:
 
  http://osm.org/go/e0UvhIF-
 
  En af hverju er ég að hafa samband við ykkur?
 
  OpenStreetMap á Íslandi er nær eingöngu búið til upp úr GPS ferlum.
  Þ.e. einhver áhugasamur notandi labbar/hjólar/keyrir um eitthvað
  svæði og teiknar kort upp úr ferlunum. Hér má t.d. sjá hvernig
  Akranes var teiknað upp:
 
  http://blip.tv/file/1624794
 
  En það væri mun fljótlegra að kortleggja ef við værum með loftmyndir,
  og það er þar sem þið komið inn.
 
  Einu loftmyndirnar sem við erum með aðgang að eru Landsat myndir frá
  NASA sem eru í það lágri upplausn að við erum heppin að geta teiknað
  stór vötn og ár upp úr þeim. Aðrir myndagrunnar eins og t.d. grunnur
  Loftmynda.is og SPOT5 grunnur LMÍ kosta morðfjár sem nokkrir
  hobbýistar hafa ekki ráð á.
 
  Því vildi ég kanna hvort áhugi væri hjá einhverjum félagsmanni eða
  félagsmönnum ykkar til að fljúga um t.d. Höfuðborgarsvæðið með
  einhvern áhugasaman einstakling frá OpenStreetMap verkefninu sem
  myndi taka myndir af jörðu niðri. Við svo varpað þessum myndum á
  þekkta punkta á jörðu niðri (e. control points) og teiknað upp
  nákvæmara kort út frá því.
 
 

Re: [Talk-de] OSMbugs

2009-09-22 Thread Mitja Kleider
Hallo Dimitri,

Am Dienstag, 22. September 2009 schrieb Dimitri Junker:
 wie kann ich alle OSM-Bugs eines Gebietes als gpx herunterladen? Ja ich
  habe den As GPX file link unten links entdeckt. Allerdings lädt der nur
  die Bugs die auch angezeigt werden, nicht aber die die beim reinzoomen
  auch noch erscheinen würden.
Es werden normalerweise maximal 1000 Bugs angezeigt. Mit dem limit-Parameter 
kann die Grenze auf bis zu 10 erhöht werden, darüber sollte man den 
kompletten SQL-Dump verwenden.
Wenn du nur offene Bugs brauchst, kannst du noch open=yes anhängen.
Gary hat dazu zwei Beispiele geschrieben:
 
http://openstreetbugs.schokokeks.org/api/0.1/getGPX?b=47.4t=55.0l=5.9r=15.0limit=10
 
http://openstreetbugs.schokokeks.org/api/0.1/getGPX?b=47.4t=55.0l=5.9r=15.0limit=10open=yes

Gruß,
Mitja

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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographisc her Namen (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Martin Trautmann
Bei solchen Namen würde ich auch eine Reihe von Schreibvarianten erwarten:

Dr.-Karl-Eduard-Zachariae-von-Lingenthal-Straße

Dabei bin ich mir nicht mal sicher, ob der gute sich eher als Carl schreibt.

Wer hat das den Großkmehlenern eingebrockt?

Variationsmöglichkeiten:
- mit oder ohne Doktor
- Karl oder Carl
- Zacharie oder Zachariae
- Lingenthal oder Lingental
- Abkuerzung K.
- Abkuerzung C.
- Abkuerzung E.
- Abkuerzung v.
- Leerzeichen statt Bindestriche


Schon gefundene Varianten dazu:
Dr.-Z.-von-Lingenthal-Str.
Dr.-K.-E.-Z.-von-Lingenthal-Str.
K.-E.-Z.-v.-Lingenthal-Str.
Z.-v.-Lingenthal-Str.
Dr. Carl Eduard Zachariae von Lingenthal Straße
Dr.-Karl-Eduard-Zacharie-von-Lingenthal-Straße

Oder was hat wohl die Aachener beim AachenMünchener-Platz geritten?

Schönen Gruß
Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] All in One Karte und Anzeige von Maxspeed

2009-09-22 Thread Fabian Schmidt


Am 22.09.09 schrieb elchtrei...@gmx.net:


Ähm nee, das hatte ich vorerst rausgenommen, da ich die kleinen
Schildchen eingebaut habe. Ich denke mal prinzipiell, könnte ich das
wieder einbauen, wenn es gewünscht ist.


Also ich bin aus den oben genannten Gründen, wieder dafür, daß an die
Straßennamen anzuhängen. Ja es ist ein Hack, aber er funktioniert ganz gut.


Für nicht numerische Werte empfinde ich es als störend, insbes. wenn die 
Beschreibung der Geschwindigkeitsbeschränkung länger wird als der 
Straßenname. Kannst Du die rausfiltern, falls Du die maxspeeds wieder in 
den Straßennamen nimmst? Oder per sed-Skript, XSLT o.ä. ein paar häufige 
Werte ersetzen?



Fabian.
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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographisc her Namen (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Georg Feddern
Moin,

Martin Trautmann schrieb:
 Oder was hat wohl die Aachener beim AachenMünchener-Platz geritten?
   

mit dem Eigennamen sind sie immer gut versichert ... ;-)

Gruß
Georg

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Re: [Talk-de] All in One Karte und Anzeige von Maxspeed

2009-09-22 Thread Adiac
Am Dienstag 22 September 2009 00:22:28 schrieb Christoph Wagner:
 Ich meine an sich ist das ja auch n blöder Hack, den Maxspeed in den
 Straßennamen zu knallen, aber vorübergehend wohl ganz ok.

 Gibts da noch mehr Meinungen?
Bei einer Adresssuche muss ich erst die Hausnummer eingeben, dann die Straße.
Wenn die Straße nun verschiedene Abschnitte mit unterschiedlichen 
Geschwindigkeitsbeschränkungen hat, steht sie mehrfach in der Auswahllist was 
diese, wie ich finde unnötig aufbläht.

MfG

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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographisch er Namen (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Martin Trautmann

 Martin Trautmann schrieb:
  Oder was hat wohl die Aachener beim AachenMünchener-Platz geritten?

 
 mit dem Eigennamen sind sie immer gut versichert ... ;-)

Interessant ist da die Strassensuche im Stadtplan von Aachen:

Aachener-Münchener-Platz (fehlerhaft)
Aachener-und-Münchener-Allee (richtig)
Aachener-und-Münchener-Platz (false)
AachenMünchener-Allee (fehlerhaft)
Aachen-Münchener-Platz (fehlerhaft)
AachenMünchener-Platz (richtig)

1834 hiess sie eben noch Aachener und Münchener. Das hat sich viele 
Jahrzehnte gehalten, wobei die Gesellschaftsbezeichnungen dahinter gelentlich 
mal wechselten.

Auch 1979 war die AMB (Aachener und Münchener Beteiligungs-AG) ja noch ganz 
ertraeglich. Die Umbennung in AachenMünchener erfolgte wohl 2005, wird auf 
http://www.generali-deutschland.de/internet/amb/amb_inter.nsf/docs/Historie_Teil6#2005
 aber nicht ausdruecklich erwaehnt. 

Diese BinnenKapitälchen sind so ein schrecklicher ZeitGeist...

Schoenen Gruss
Martin
-- 
GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

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Re: [Talk-de] All in One Karte und Anzeige von Maxspeed

2009-09-22 Thread Jürgen Frank
Hallo Christoph,

ich kann mich Kais Ausführungen nur anschließen :-)

Elchtreiber schrieb:

 Hallo Christoph,

 Elchtreiber schrieb:
 Hallo,

 hab nur ich das Problem, da? die All in one Karte auf einem 60CSx
 keinen
 Maxspeed mehr anzeigt?!


 ?hm nee, das hatte ich vorerst rausgenommen, da ich die kleinen
 Schildchen eingebaut habe. Ich denke mal prinzipiell, k?nnte ich das
 wieder einbauen, wenn es gew?nscht ist.
 Es gab aber auch einige Stimmen, die das eher verwirrend fanden.
 Ich meine an sich ist das ja auch n bl?der Hack, den Maxspeed in den
 Stra?ennamen zu knallen, aber vor?bergehend wohl ganz ok.

 Leider sind die kleinen Schilder bei einer Autofahrt nicht mehr zu  
 sehen. Ich hab letztens noch auf der A9 jede Menge  
 Geschwindigkeitsbeschr?nkungen
 gefunden, die nicht in der Karte vorhanden waren. Das kann man aber  
 nur
 machen, wenn das auch bei 120 km/h noch zu erkennen ist. Das ist bei  
 den
 kleinen Schildern leider nicht mehr m?glich.
 Auf dem Fahrrad finde ich das auch noch schwer. Nur zu Fu? sollte  
 das klappen.
 Leider mappe ich nichts zu Fu?, so viel Zeit habe ich dann auch  
 nicht...

 Also ich bin aus den oben genannten Gr?nden, wieder daf?r, da? an die
 Stra?ennamen anzuh?ngen. Ja es ist ein Hack, aber er funktioniert  
 ganz gut.
+1

 Ansonsten hab ich in letzter Zeit einige bugs - naja behoben will  
 ich
 nicht sagen, aber eher umgangen.
 Es gab beispielsweise eine Zeit lang 2 Adresslayer im Men?. Das lag
 daran, dass eine (und zwar die letzte) erzeugte Kachel von mkgmap  
 nicht
 transparent geschaltet wurde und deshalb nicht mit gruppiert werden
 konnte.
 Ich hab das Problem behoben, indem ich alles hinterher nochmal  
 explizit
 mit gmaptool auf transparent setze.

 Super, das macht das Abschalten nat?rlich einfacher, wobei ich  
 gestehen
 mu?, da? ich fast nie einen Layer abschalte, da ich zum Mappen auch  
 alle
 Infos haben m?chte...

 Weiterhin ist noch von meiner Seite aus geplant, einen Fahrrad- und
 Wanderroutenlayer, einzubauen. K?nnte aber noch n bissel dauern.
 Gibts da Pr?ferenzen, wie sowas aussehen soll?

 Das w?re Superklasse. Ist es m?glich die Stra?en mit eigenem Radweg,  
 dann
 auch in dem Fahrradlayer nochmals zu haben, damit da das Routing  
 sauber funktioniert?!
 Ich lass mich mal ?berraschen...

 An dieser Stelle nochmals ein ganz gro?es Dankesch?n f?r die All in  
 One Karte. Ohne die h?tte in meiner Ecke ein ganzer Ort keine  
 Hausnummern.
 Wenn man sieht, was man Mappt, dann geht das doch einfacher ;-)
+1

 Gru?
 Kai

Gruß

Jürgen
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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographisch er Namen (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Martin Trautmann


   Oder was hat wohl die Aachener beim AachenMünchener-Platz geritten?
 
  
  mit dem Eigennamen sind sie immer gut versichert ... ;-)
 
 Interessant ist da die Strassensuche im Stadtplan von Aachen:
 
 Aachener-Münchener-Platz (fehlerhaft)
 Aachener-und-Münchener-Allee (richtig)
 Aachener-und-Münchener-Platz (false)
 AachenMünchener-Allee (fehlerhaft)
 Aachen-Münchener-Platz (fehlerhaft)
 AachenMünchener-Platz (richtig)

Schade, dass er in der OSM noch nicht benannt war:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.770734lon=6.086983zoom=18layers=B000FTF
Ist geändert. Den Tag building site habe ich aber belassen - ist das keine 
endgültigere Platzgestaltung?

vgl. 
http://www.webgeo.regioit-aachen.de:9001/ac_stadtplan/entry.jsp?mapWidth=685mapHeight=600#

Die Gegend liefert mit maps.google.de oder Stadtplandienst.de exemplarisch 
unbrauchbare Ergebnisse. Was OSM zeigt, ist nicht so viel schlechter...

-- 
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Re: [Talk-de] Relationen in JOSM 2176

2009-09-22 Thread Wolfgang Wienke
Hallo!
Carsten Gerlach schrieb:
 Naabend,
 
 Am Montag 21. September 2009 21:30:01 schrieb Wolfgang Wienke:
 Josm zeigt jetzt Relationen an.
 
 Das tut JOSM schon länger. Was meinst du genau?
 
 Kann man das irgendwo abstellen?
 
 Probier mal Alt+R (das zweite Symbol von unten auf der linken Seite).
Das hilft nicht weiter.
Wenn ich im Relationseditor eine Relation bearbeite war es früher so 
(V1860???), dass bei Anklicken eines Wegstücks im Relationseditor dieses 
in JOSM gelb markiert wurde. Dies ist wichtig, um die Reihenfolge von 
Wegstücke korrekt herzustellen. Diese Anzeige funkioniert jetzt nicht mehr.



-- 
Mit freundlichen Gruessen

  Wolfgang Wienke

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Re: [Talk-de] OSMbugs

2009-09-22 Thread Dimitri Junker
Hallo,


Es werden normalerweise maximal 1000 Bugs angezeigt.

Das war bei weitem nicht das Limit, ich bekam da 30 Bugs. 
http://openstreetbugs.schokokeks.org/api/0.1/getGPX?b=47.4t=55.0l=5.9r=
15.0limit=1000 00open=yes


danke, damit klappt es, habe es in taho eingebaut. Man kann da also jetzt 
neben den Karten auch diese gpx laden.

Gruß
Dimitri

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Re: [Talk-de] Relationen in JOSM 2176

2009-09-22 Thread Georg Feddern
Moin,

Wolfgang Wienke schrieb:
 Hallo!
 Carsten Gerlach schrieb:
   
 Naabend,

 Am Montag 21. September 2009 21:30:01 schrieb Wolfgang Wienke:
 
 Josm zeigt jetzt Relationen an.
   
 Das tut JOSM schon länger. Was meinst du genau?

 
 Kann man das irgendwo abstellen?
   
 Probier mal Alt+R (das zweite Symbol von unten auf der linken Seite).
 
 Das hilft nicht weiter.
 Wenn ich im Relationseditor eine Relation bearbeite war es früher so 
 (V1860???), dass bei Anklicken eines Wegstücks im Relationseditor dieses 
 in JOSM gelb markiert wurde. Dies ist wichtig, um die Reihenfolge von 
 Wegstücke korrekt herzustellen. Diese Anzeige funkioniert jetzt nicht mehr.
   

Richtig, das Anklicken alleine funktioniert nicht mehr, dafür ist jetzt 
der von Carsten genannte Button zuständig:
Linke Spalte, der vierte von oben bzw. der zweite von unten.
Die Funktionalität des Relation-Editors wurde umfangreich erweitert, so 
dass das einfache Anklicken/Markieren nicht mehr zur automatischen 
Auswahl in JOSM führen darf (hätte wieder andere Seiteneffekte).
Man kann in JOSM ausgewählte Objekte ja jetzt auch gezielt vor oder 
hinter einem in der Relationselementeliste markierten Element einfügen.
Man könnte allerdings das automatische Markieren per Doppelklick auf das 
Element implementieren - ist aber Ansichtssache.

Gruß
Georg


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Re: [Talk-de] Relationen in JOSM 2176

2009-09-22 Thread Martin Siegel
Wolfgang Wienke schrieb:
 Wenn ich im Relationseditor eine Relation bearbeite war es früher so 
 (V1860???), dass bei Anklicken eines Wegstücks im Relationseditor dieses 
 in JOSM gelb markiert wurde. Dies ist wichtig, um die Reihenfolge von 
 Wegstücke korrekt herzustellen. Diese Anzeige funkioniert jetzt nicht mehr.
Das hab ich auch schon vermisst, bis ich den Button auf der linken Seite 
unter dem Mülleimer entdeckt und ausprobiert habe. Damit wird das im 
Relationseditor ausgewählte Objekt auch in der Kartenansicht ausgewählt.

Gruß: Martin Siegel

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Re: [Talk-de] Grenzen / Amtlicher Gemeindeschlüssel / Postleitzahl-Gebiete

2009-09-22 Thread Tobias Wendorff
Hallo Tirkon,

Tirkon schrieb:
 Ich habe mit dem Rechtezeugs nicht viel am Hut. Aber kann ich mit
 Bezug auf eine beliebige Quelle, die geschütztes Material als Public
 Domain veröffentlicht, meine Hände in Unschuld waschen?

Wenn sie wirklich PD ist, musst Du auch keinen Bezug auf die
Quelle nehmen, denn unter PD ist alles erlaubt.

Hinweis:
PD ist in Deutschland nicht möglich, da mein sein Urheberrecht und
alle damit verbundenen Pflichten und Nutzen nicht aufgeben kann.
Eine Alternative, die ziemlich ähnlich ist, ist möglicherweise CC0.

Grüße
Tobias

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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographischer Na men (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Tobias Wendorff
Martin Koppenhoefer schrieb:
 eher nicht. Ich würde vermutlich Straße eintragen. Sind das evtl.
 Kapitälchen auf Deinem Schild? Das kommt ja auch vor. Meine Straßen
 heißen sowieso via, largo, pizza, piazzale, viale, viadotto, vicolo,
 traforo, circonvallazione, tangenziale, ... da kommt man mit der dt.
 Rechtschreibung nicht weiter...

Das ist jetzt ein Scherz, oder?

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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographisc her Namen (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Tobias Wendorff
Hallo Martin,

Martin Trautmann schrieb:
 1. Anwendung der Neuregelung der deutschen Rechtschreibung:
 http://www.stagn.de/Portals/0/ANWENDUNG%20DER%20NEUREGELUNG%20DER%20DEUTSCHEN%20RECHTSCHREIBUNG.pdf
 
 Das wurde aber doch nur eine Empfehlung?

Ich denke, dass es nur eine Empfehlung ist, da der StAGN bei uns
keine hoheitlichen Aufgaben übernehmen kann. Die Namensbildung
übernehmen die Länder, welche es aber an die Katasterbehörden
weitergeben.

Wenn Du Dir anschaust, wer alles im Ausschuss sitzt, wird glaube
ich eine Art Zwang statt Empfehlung erkennbar:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A4ndiger_Ausschuss_f%C3%BCr_geographische_Namen

Das amtliche Regelwerk gibt es hier:
http://www.ids-mannheim.de/reform/regeln2006.pdf
http://rechtschreibrat.ids-mannheim.de/download/regeln2006.pdf

Zitat aus Seite 5: Das folgende amtliche Regelwerk, mit einem
Regelteil und einem Wörterverzeichnis, regelt die Rechtschreibung
innerhalb derjenigen Institutionen (Schule, Verwaltung), für die
der Staat Regelungskompetenz hinsichtlich der Rechtschreibung hat.

Die Verwaltung muss sich also an die neue Rechtschreibung halten,
die Katasterbehörde gehört aber zwangsmäßig dazu.

Daher entstehen also auch die Probleme, die wir derzeit haben:
In der einen Liste stehen die neuen Straßennamen, auf der Straße
jedoch die alten. Die Verwaltung muss sich schließlich anpassen.
Sinnvoll wäre hier natürlich, ALIAS-Namen zu führen.

Daher ist das vielleicht so:
Ich empfehle Dir, die Namen zu übernehmen, sonst kannst Du
Dich auf eine lange Diskussion mit uns und der Bevölkerung
einstellen.

 Wie sollte man nun aber eigentlich folgende Namen schreiben?
 http://www.cite-baden-baden.de/05-presse/citezeitung/2005-08/2005-8-Lo.pdf
 * De Beauvoir-Weg
 * St. Exupéry-Weg

§ 50 obiger Regeln:
Man setzt einen Bindestrich zwischen allen Bestandteilen mehrteiliger
Zusammensetzungen, deren erste Bestandteile aus Eigennamen
bestehen.

Somit *müssten*, regelkonform, überall Bindestriche zwischen kommen.

  * Zola-Weg

§ 51 obiger Regeln:
Man kann einen Bindestrich in Zusammensetzungen setzen, die als
ersten Bestandteil einen Eigennamen haben, der besonders hervorgehoben
werden soll, oder wenn der zweite Bestandteil bereits eine
Zusammensetzung ist.

 Ist das aus der Empfehlung ableitbar?

Nein, aber aus der amtlichen Regelgung. Es gilt aber nur für
neue Namen, nicht für vorhandene.

 Und was ist richtiger: Dresdner oder Dresdener Straße, Frühling- oder 
 Frühlingsstraße?

Das kommt ja darauf an, ob es sich um einen Eigennamen oder einen
Appellativa handelt.

Viele Grüße
Tobias

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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographisch er Namen (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Martin Trautmann

 http://www.stagn.de/Portals/0/ANWENDUNG%20DER%20NEUREGELUNG%20DER%20DEUTSCHEN%20RECHTSCHREIBUNG.pdf
  
  Das wurde aber doch nur eine Empfehlung?
 
 Ich denke, dass es nur eine Empfehlung ist, da der StAGN bei uns
 keine hoheitlichen Aufgaben übernehmen kann. 

 Wenn Du Dir anschaust, wer alles im Ausschuss sitzt, wird glaube
 ich eine Art Zwang statt Empfehlung erkennbar:

Nein, das bezweifle ich - dafuer erfolgt die Namensgebung in der Regel auf 
Gemeinde-Ebene, die sich nicht immer um besseres Wissen scheren.


 Daher entstehen also auch die Probleme, die wir derzeit haben:
 In der einen Liste stehen die neuen Straßennamen, auf der Straße
 jedoch die alten. Die Verwaltung muss sich schließlich anpassen.
 Sinnvoll wäre hier natürlich, ALIAS-Namen zu führen.

Ja, zusaetzlich.

http://www.cite-baden-baden.de/05-presse/citezeitung/2005-08/2005-8-Lo.pdf
  * De Beauvoir-Weg
  * St. Exupéry-Weg
 
 § 50 obiger Regeln:
 Man setzt einen Bindestrich zwischen allen Bestandteilen mehrteiliger
 Zusammensetzungen, deren erste Bestandteile aus Eigennamen
 bestehen.

Da sind wir uns einigermassen einig. Allerdings ist die Abkuerzung St. weit 
ueblicher fuer Sankt. Richtig waere also der Saint-Exupéry-Weg

 Somit *müssten*, regelkonform, überall Bindestriche zwischen kommen.

Die Wege sind recht jung, die Stadt hat sich nicht um irgendwelche Empfehlungen 
gekuemmert. Da ging aber, vgl. URL, ohnehin viel schief.

   * Zola-Weg
 
 § 51 obiger Regeln:
 Man kann einen Bindestrich in Zusammensetzungen setzen, die als
 ersten Bestandteil einen Eigennamen haben, der besonders hervorgehoben
 werden soll, oder wenn der zweite Bestandteil bereits eine
 Zusammensetzung ist.

Also eine Empfehlung der Empfehlung - beliebig schwach und unscharf abgegrenzt, 
so dass die Adenauer-Str. wohl beliebig ueblich sein kann, oder was auch immer 
heute neu benannt wird.

  Und was ist richtiger: Dresdner oder Dresdener Straße, Frühling- oder 
  Frühlingsstraße?
 
 Das kommt ja darauf an, ob es sich um einen Eigennamen oder einen
 Appellativa handelt.

Wie unterscheidest du das? Wenn es im Ort auch eine Leipziger Strasse gibt, 
dass ist Dresden ein Gattungsbegriff (fuer eine ostdeutsche Grossstadt), sonst 
aber ein Eigenname? In der Regel deutet auch nichts auf die Herren Frühling, 
Frieden oder Friedhof hin - ich vermute, da geht es viel mehr um zufaelliges 
Sprachgefuehl, ob ein Fuell-S eingefuegt wird oder nicht: Bahnhofstrasse, aber 
Bahnhofsplatz.

Schoenen Gruss
Martin
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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographisc her Namen (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Tobias Wendorff
Florian Lohoff schrieb:
 Sicher nicht? Meiner Praktischen erfahrung nach nehmen die das
 gerne und aendern auch die Schilder - alleine in den letzten 4 Wochen
 in Rheda-Wiedenbrück 2 Straßen gefunden bei denen die Stadt bestaetigt
 hat das es neue Schilder gibt ...

Das klingt super. Aber wie gesagt: Ich hätte Angst vor Haettenschweiler ;-)

 Es geht drum das die Schilder typischerweise gut gepflegt sind
 und wenig Schreibfehler aufweisen da sie typischerweise an exponierter
 Stelle stehen und von vielen betrachtet werden. 

Ich habe bislang noch nie erlebt, dass Schilder gut gepflegt werden,
daher können wir hier nicht auf einen gemeinsamen Nenner kommen.

 Aber es sei dir ueberlassen zu mappen was du willst - Ich halte
 das anwenden von Rechtschreibregeln anstatt dem Stumpfen uebernehmen der
 Realitaet fuer einen groben fehler ...

Nur, weil ich über ein Thema schreibe, muss ich nicht der
gleichen Meinung sein. Wenn mich zukünftig ein Auftraggeber
bittet, den Standort von fünf Braunkohlekraftwerke in Essen
zu planen, werde ich vielleicht auch nicht ablehnen können.

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Re: [Talk-de] JOSM: Relationseditor

2009-09-22 Thread Matthias Versen
Georg Feddern wrote:

 Ein zirkulärer Bezug entsteht im Relationseditor doch eigentlich nur,
 wenn die gerade bearbeitete Relation selbst als Element mit eingebunden
 wird.
 Also ist die Nummer des beanstandeten Elements die Nummer der gerade
 bearbeiteten Relation.
 Oder denke ich da gerade an deinem Problem vorbei?

Es geht auch komplizierter :

Relation A enthält : Relation B
Relation B enthält : Relation C
Relation C enthält : Relation A

Ich weiß schon warum ich Relationen als Member in Relationen nicht mag :-)

Matthias


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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographischer Na men (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am 22. September 2009 14:40 schrieb Tobias Wendorff
tobias.wendo...@uni-dortmund.de:
 Sinnvoll wäre hier natürlich, ALIAS-Namen zu führen.

 Daher ist das vielleicht so:
 Ich empfehle Dir, die Namen zu übernehmen, sonst kannst Du
 Dich auf eine lange Diskussion mit uns und der Bevölkerung
 einstellen.

was willst Du denn dann mit den Alias-Namen machen? Zusätzlich
rendern? Oder in der Datenbank lassen, damit alles seine Ordnung
hat, bis die Kommunen neue Schilder aufgestellt haben? Im letzteren
Fall gäbe es ja die langen Diskussionen trotzdem, wenn die
Bevölkerung nicht vor dem Diskuttieren in unserer db nachsieht.

Ehrlich gesagt: ausser OSM-lern und Leuten, die wirklich nichts zu tun
haben, wird das niemandem auffallen ;-)

Geht lieber mappen :D, die Lösung für Gründliche ist ja schon da: bei
der Gemeinde nachfragen, alles andere ist reine Spekulation.

Gruß Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographischer Na men (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Tobias Wendorff
Martin Koppenhoefer schrieb:
 Geht lieber mappen :D, die Lösung für Gründliche ist ja schon da: bei
 der Gemeinde nachfragen, alles andere ist reine Spekulation.

Wieso muss man immer gleich mappen gehen, um für OpenStreetMap
etwas Gutes zu tun? Ich helfe derzeit einem großen deutschen
Wanderportal dabei, auf OSM umzusteigen (vorher ATKIS). Alleine
von dort haben wir mehrere hundert km neue Wege importieren
können, wo im OSM bislang nichts war.

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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographisch er Namen (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Tobias Wendorff
Hallo,

Martin Trautmann schrieb:
 Nein, das bezweifle ich - dafuer erfolgt die Namensgebung in der Regel auf 
 Gemeinde-Ebene, die sich nicht immer um besseres Wissen scheren.

Gerade im Osten wirst Du nicht in jeder Gemeinde eine
Katasterbehörde sitzen haben :-)

 Da sind wir uns einigermassen einig. Allerdings ist die Abkuerzung St. weit 
 ueblicher fuer Sankt. Richtig waere also der Saint-Exupéry-Weg

Laut Wikipedia heißt die Person mit vollem Namen Antoine Marie Roger
Vicomte de Saint-Exupéry. Es ist daher schon ziemlich Brutal,
man St.-Exupéry schreibt. Oder kürzt man es im Französischen
genauso ab?

 Somit *müssten*, regelkonform, überall Bindestriche zwischen kommen.
 
 Die Wege sind recht jung, die Stadt hat sich nicht um irgendwelche 
 Empfehlungen gekuemmert. Da ging aber, vgl. URL, ohnehin viel schief.

Dass Namen mit Bindestrich geschrieben werden, war auch vor der
Reform schon so...

 Also eine Empfehlung der Empfehlung - beliebig schwach und unscharf 
 abgegrenzt, so dass die Adenauer-Str. wohl beliebig ueblich sein kann, oder 
 was auch immer heute neu benannt wird.

Es ist keine Empfehlung der Empehlung, sondern eine Möglichkeit
der amtliche Regelung. Ich habe mich nicht auf die Empfehlung der
StAGN bezogen, denn diese kennt keine Paragraphen.

Nehmen wir mal das hier: Hamburg-Mannheimerstraße auf Basis der
Versicherung Hamburg-Mannheimer. Es wäre somit möglich,
Hamburg-Mannheimer-Straße zu schreiben.

 Wie unterscheidest du das? Wenn es im Ort auch eine Leipziger Strasse
 gibt, dass ist Dresden ein Gattungsbegriff (fuer eine ostdeutsche
 Grossstadt), sonst aber ein Eigenname? In der Regel deutet auch nichts
 auf die Herren Frühling, Frieden oder Friedhof hin - ich vermute, da
 geht es viel mehr um zufaelliges Sprachgefuehl, ob ein Fuell-S
 eingefuegt wird oder nicht: Bahnhofstrasse, aber Bahnhofsplatz.

§§ 37 und 59: Dort ist Bahnhofstraße auch als Beispiel gegeben.

Wie ist die richtige Bezeichnung für das Füll-S? Ich finde nichts
dazu.

Grüße
Tobias

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Re: [Talk-de] Rollstuhlrouting-Portal online!

2009-09-22 Thread Tobias Wendorff
Adiac schrieb:
 oder hat jemand noch weitere Ideen dazu?

access = wheelchair ?

 Ein access=no heißt doch Zugang für Niemanden.
 Wie wäre ein access={key|eurokey|centralkey} (ich kenn’ die Schlüssel nicht)?

Ich kenne nur zwei offizielle lokale Namen:
Deutschland, Schweiz, Österreich: Euroschlüssel
Italien: EuroChiave

Ich glaube, der internationale Name ist wirklich Eurokey.

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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographischer Na men (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Mirko Küster
 Wieso muss man immer gleich mappen gehen, um für OpenStreetMap
 etwas Gutes zu tun? Ich helfe derzeit einem großen deutschen
 Wanderportal dabei, auf OSM umzusteigen (vorher ATKIS). Alleine
 von dort haben wir mehrere hundert km neue Wege importieren
 können, wo im OSM bislang nichts war.

Ich hoffe die sind halbwegs aktuell und von Wanderern erfasst. Ansonsten 
kannst du gleich ein FIXME mit dranhängen. In letzter Zeit erfasse ich 
ebenfalls Wanderwege, allerdings direkt vor Ort. Viele dieser Wege wurden 
hier z.B. mal im Rahmen einer ABM in der Mitte der Neunziger angelegt, 
wurden aber seither nicht gepflegt. Viele Abschnitte sind mitlerweile quasi 
unpassierbar oder verlegt, teilweise aufgelassen und nicht mehr 
ausgeschildert. Die stehen aber alle noch in den aktuellen Wanderkarten 
drin. Auch auf diversen Seiten, wo veraltete Pfade angeboten werden.

Deswegen ist mappen manchmal die besser Methode ;-)

Gruß
Mirko 


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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographisch er Namen (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Martin Trautmann

 Gerade im Osten wirst Du nicht in jeder Gemeinde eine
 Katasterbehörde sitzen haben :-)

Gerade im Osten ist das aber oft schon zentralisiert, z.B. bei einem 
Landesvermessungsamt, wo im Westen die Staedte noch ihr eigenes Sueppchen 
kochen.

 Laut Wikipedia heißt die Person mit vollem Namen Antoine Marie Roger
 Vicomte de Saint-Exupéry. Es ist daher schon ziemlich Brutal,
 man St.-Exupéry schreibt. Oder kürzt man es im Französischen
 genauso ab?

Ja, mit der Unterscheidung St. = Saint, Ste. = Sainte.


 Dass Namen mit Bindestrich geschrieben werden, war auch vor der
 Reform schon so...

... und wurde auch vor der Reform schon oft genug falsch gemacht.

 Es ist keine Empfehlung der Empehlung, sondern eine Möglichkeit
 der amtliche Regelung. Ich habe mich nicht auf die Empfehlung der
 StAGN bezogen, denn diese kennt keine Paragraphen.
 
 Nehmen wir mal das hier: Hamburg-Mannheimerstraße auf Basis der
 Versicherung Hamburg-Mannheimer. Es wäre somit möglich,
 Hamburg-Mannheimer-Straße zu schreiben.

Das waere IMHO sogar recht zwingend vorgeschrieben, im Unterschied natuerlich 
zur Mannheimer Strasse.
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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographisch er Namen (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Tobias Wendorff
Martin Trautmann schrieb:
 Gerade im Osten wirst Du nicht in jeder Gemeinde eine
 Katasterbehörde sitzen haben :-)
 
 Gerade im Osten ist das aber oft schon zentralisiert, z.B. bei einem 
 Landesvermessungsamt, wo im Westen die Staedte noch ihr eigenes Sueppchen 
 kochen.

Meinte ich doch damit.

 Laut Wikipedia heißt die Person mit vollem Namen Antoine Marie Roger
 Vicomte de Saint-Exupéry. Es ist daher schon ziemlich Brutal,
 man St.-Exupéry schreibt. Oder kürzt man es im Französischen
 genauso ab?
 
 Ja, mit der Unterscheidung St. = Saint, Ste. = Sainte.

Dann ist es ja doch noch akzeptabel, wenn aber auch stark irritierend.

 Dass Namen mit Bindestrich geschrieben werden, war auch vor der
 Reform schon so...
 
 ... und wurde auch vor der Reform schon oft genug falsch gemacht.

Meinte ich doch damit. ;-)

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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographischer Na men (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Tobias Wendorff
Mirko Küster schrieb:
 Ich hoffe die sind halbwegs aktuell und von Wanderern erfasst. Ansonsten 
 kannst du gleich ein FIXME mit dranhängen. In letzter Zeit erfasse ich 
 ebenfalls Wanderwege, allerdings direkt vor Ort. Viele dieser Wege wurden 
 hier z.B. mal im Rahmen einer ABM in der Mitte der Neunziger angelegt, 
 wurden aber seither nicht gepflegt. Viele Abschnitte sind mitlerweile quasi 
 unpassierbar oder verlegt, teilweise aufgelassen und nicht mehr 
 ausgeschildert.

Wir haben Wanderwege und Straßen schon unterteilt - aber ja, sie
sind aktuell. Da liegt ja die Macht des Portals und die Macht soll
dann auch zurück nach OSM fließen und die Macht von OSM ... you know.

 Die stehen aber alle noch in den aktuellen Wanderkarten 
 drin. Auch auf diversen Seiten, wo veraltete Pfade angeboten werden.

Dann würde das Portal niemand nutzen. Ich will noch keine Namen nennen,
da dies bald eine Marketing-Firma übernehmen wird.

 Deswegen ist mappen manchmal die besser Methode ;-)

Dann müsste ich ja jedem Mapper auf die Finger schauen.
Ich habe in letzter Zeit viele schöne kleine Anwendungen für
OpenLayers gebastelt, die ich jetzt endlich anwenden kann.

Mappen tue ich selbst meistens eh nur dort, wo noch nichts ist.
Bald mache ich endlich die Hausnummern in Werl fertig - die habe
ich schon vor einem halben Jahr fast komplett gemappt, aber noch
keine Zeit gehabt, sie einzutragen.

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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographisch er Namen (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Martin Trautmann

  Wie unterscheidest du das? Wenn es im Ort auch eine Leipziger Strasse
  gibt, dass ist Dresden ein Gattungsbegriff (fuer eine ostdeutsche
  Grossstadt), sonst aber ein Eigenname? In der Regel deutet auch nichts
  auf die Herren Frühling, Frieden oder Friedhof hin - ich vermute, da
  geht es viel mehr um zufaelliges Sprachgefuehl, ob ein Fuell-S
  eingefuegt wird oder nicht: Bahnhofstrasse, aber Bahnhofsplatz.
 
 §§ 37 und 59: Dort ist Bahnhofstraße auch als Beispiel gegeben.
 
 Wie ist die richtige Bezeichnung für das Füll-S? Ich finde nichts
 dazu.

Ich vermute: Fugenlaut
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugenlaut#Verwendung
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Re: [Talk-de] Relationen in JOSM 2176

2009-09-22 Thread malenki
Georg Feddern schrieb:

 Wenn ich im Relationseditor eine Relation bearbeite war es früher so 
 (V1860???), dass bei Anklicken eines Wegstücks im Relationseditor
 dieses in JOSM gelb markiert wurde. Dies ist wichtig, um die
 Reihenfolge von Wegstücke korrekt herzustellen. Diese Anzeige
 funkioniert jetzt nicht mehr. 

Vor drei Wochen schrieb ich das in den JOSM-Bugtracker:
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/3400

Richtig, das Anklicken alleine funktioniert nicht mehr, dafür ist
jetzt der von Carsten genannte Button zuständig:
Linke Spalte, der vierte von oben bzw. der zweite von unten.

Wenn ich die Elemente im Relationseditor auswähle, darf ich für jede
Selektion, von der ich wissen will, wo sie liegt, einmal Knöpfchen
drücken -.-
Diese Handhabung finde ich umständlich. Es war ein Vorzug des
(alten) Relationseditors, sofort zu sehen, was man ausgewählt hat
und wo das Element liegt.

Wenn ich die Stücke in Josm auswähle, darf ich jedes kleinste
Stückchen einzeln anklicken (z.B. Brücken) - auch nicht optimal

Die Funktionalität des Relation-Editors wurde umfangreich erweitert,
so dass das einfache Anklicken/Markieren nicht mehr zur automatischen 
Auswahl in JOSM führen darf (hätte wieder andere Seiteneffekte).

Welche? Ich kann mir keine vorstellen.

Man kann in JOSM ausgewählte Objekte ja jetzt auch gezielt vor oder 
hinter einem in der Relationselementeliste markierten Element einfügen.
Man könnte allerdings das automatische Markieren per Doppelklick auf
das Element implementieren - ist aber Ansichtssache.

Wie soll das mit mehr als einem Element funktionieren?

Gruß
malenki



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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographisch er Namen (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Martin Trautmann

-
 Meinte ich doch damit.

 Dann ist es ja doch noch akzeptabel, wenn aber auch stark irritierend.

 Meinte ich doch damit. ;-)

Wir sind uns wieder mal einig :-)
Martin
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Re: [Talk-de] Rendern von Photovoltaik-Kraftwerken

2009-09-22 Thread malenki
André Riedel schrieb:

In Osmarender ist das Icon in leicht geschrumpfter Version [1]
integriert (rev. 17749 und rev. 17751). Muss jetzt nur noch von den
t...@h-clients übernommen werden. 

Sehr schön! Ein Kraftwerk in meiner Nähe war schon gerendert, als ich
nachschaute.

Eventuell sollte man das Icon doch kleiner rendern, aber so häufig
wird es ja auch noch nicht verwendet (95mal [2]), als dass man davon
überrannt wird.

Vielleicht sähe es auch gut aus, wenn die Icons mit etwas größerem
Abstand dargestellt würden. Würde das renderseitig umgesetzt?

Sollte ich vielleicht noch die Zwischenräume der einzelnen Solarzellen
auf dem Panel vergrößern? Im Moment kann man sie gerade so erahnen.

Ein kleiner Schönheitsfehler: Straßen, die durch eine
Photovoltaik-Fläche führen, werden von den Icons überdeckt:
http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=50.90843517100747lon=13.373085386377397zoom=16layers=BF000F

Gruß
malenki



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Re: [Talk-de] Bildung und Rechtschreibung geographisch er Namen (Straßen etc.)

2009-09-22 Thread Tobias Wendorff
Martin Trautmann schrieb:
 Ich vermute: Fugenlaut
 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugenlaut#Verwendung

Die Verwendung der Fugenlaute folgt dem Sprachgefühl und ist nicht
immer einheitlich. ;-))

Im gesamten Regelwerk taucht das Fugenlaut nicht auf. Ah, steht
auch unterschwellig so bei Wikipedia:

Das Weglassen eines in der Alltagssprache üblichen und als richtig
empfundenen Fugen-s ist kennzeichnend für das Amtsdeutsch und findet
außer in Behörden insbesondere in der Versicherungswirtschaft
Anwendung.

Wenn man die Regeln konform auslegt, gibt es also den Fugenlaut
anscheinend nicht. Das werde ich gleich einmal anfragen. Danke
für den Hinweis an beide Martins!

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