date:20090102

Re: [OSM-talk] bug in josm or in my diplay?

2009-01-02 Per discussione Shaun McDonald


On 2 Jan 2009, at 05:54, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

 hi,
 in JOSM, when the connect the raw gps points option is enabled, when  
 I zoom in
 less than 15M, the whole screen becomes yellow (my raw gps points are
 coloured yellow). On zooming out again, the screen restores and the  
 'coding
 error' dialog pops up. Is this a bug or something to do with my screen
 resolution?

The coding error details will tell us what the problem is.


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Re: [OSM-talk] bug in josm or in my diplay?

2009-01-02 Per discussione Kenneth Gonsalves

On Friday 02 Jan 2009 4:00:26 pm Shaun McDonald wrote:
  in JOSM, when the connect the raw gps points option is enabled, when  
  I zoom in
  less than 15M, the whole screen becomes yellow (my raw gps points are
  coloured yellow). On zooming out again, the screen restores and the  
  'coding
  error' dialog pops up. Is this a bug or something to do with my screen
  resolution?

 The coding error details will tell us what the problem is.

I was wrong. There is no error. The moment the zoom is less than 15 meters, 
the whole screen turns yellow. increase to over 15 meters and it is ok. 
However when enabling or disabling 'connect the dots', I get this error:

Path: trunk
URL: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/svn/trunk
Repository Root: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/svn
Repository UUID: 0c6e7542-c601-0410-84e7-c038aed88b3b
Revision: 1195
Node Kind: directory
Last Changed Author: stoecker
Last Changed Rev: 1195
Last Changed Date: 2008-12-31 00:36:58 +0100 (Wed, 31 Dec 2008)

Plugins: 
colorscheme;measurement;namefinder;osmarender;utilsplugin;validator;wmsplugin
Plugin colorscheme Version: 0.5.2
Plugin measurement Version: 12598
Plugin namefinder Version: 9236
Plugin osmarender Version: 9603
Plugin utilsplugin Version: 12677
Plugin validator Version: 12676
Plugin wmsplugin Version: 12609

java.lang.AbstractMethodError
at 
org.openstreetmap.josm.gui.preferences.PreferenceDialog.ok(PreferenceDialog.java:94)
at 
org.openstreetmap.josm.actions.PreferencesAction.actionPerformed(PreferencesAction.java:75)
at 
javax.swing.AbstractButton.fireActionPerformed(AbstractButton.java:2012)
at 
javax.swing.AbstractButton$Handler.actionPerformed(AbstractButton.java:2335)
at 
javax.swing.DefaultButtonModel.fireActionPerformed(DefaultButtonModel.java:404)
at 
javax.swing.DefaultButtonModel.setPressed(DefaultButtonModel.java:259)
at javax.swing.AbstractButton.doClick(AbstractButton.java:374)
at 
javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicMenuItemUI.doClick(BasicMenuItemUI.java:1688)
at 
javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicMenuItemUI$Handler.mouseReleased(BasicMenuItemUI.java:1732)
at 
java.awt.AWTEventMulticaster.mouseReleased(AWTEventMulticaster.java:289)
at java.awt.Component.processMouseEvent(Component.java:6099)
at javax.swing.JComponent.processMouseEvent(JComponent.java:3287)
at java.awt.Component.processEvent(Component.java:5864)
at java.awt.Container.processEvent(Container.java:2109)
at java.awt.Component.dispatchEventImpl(Component.java:4460)
at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:2167)
at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:4286)
at 
java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.retargetMouseEvent(Container.java:4465)
at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.processMouseEvent(Container.java:4129)
at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.dispatchEvent(Container.java:4059)
at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:2153)
at java.awt.Window.dispatchEventImpl(Window.java:2554)
at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:4286)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(EventQueue.java:604)
at 
java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(EventDispatchThread.java:275)
at 
java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(EventDispatchThread.java:200)
at 
java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(EventDispatchThread.java:190)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:185)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:177)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(EventDispatchThread.java:138)


-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate
NRC-FOSS
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/

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Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM Audio Mapping - Technical Issues

2009-01-02 Per discussione David Earl

JOSM Audio is designed to sync *continuous* audio with the GPX track. 
This means you don't have to fiddle with the recorder buttons every time 
you want a voice note, you can just leave it in a pocket; but nor do you 
have to listen to inordinate amounts of heavy breathing.

See the JOSM help file at 
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/HowTo/AudioMapping for details 
(or use Help while in JOSM, same thing).

I too have an Olympus recorder. The clock on mine is about 0.15% out, 
which means that a continuous sound track can be many tens of metres out 
after an hour's recording, so make sure you at least check whether you 
need to calibrate (as described in the help). I guess the time stamps 
for multiple files will suffer from the same problem too unless the 
recorder sampling rate and the time stamps run off a different clock.

Note that in the long play mode the Olympus recorder (well, my model, so 
I guess all of them) records 4 bit audio, so you'll need to convert it 
to 8-bit using Audacity or similar before it is usable in JOSM. This is 
quick and easy for one long file, but a bit tedious if you have to do it 
for many small files.

It would be relatively simple to extend the existing functionality to 
also process a folder full of time-stamped WAV files, one for each GPX 
waypoint; but really it is much easier just to record one long session - 
easier to record, easier to preprocess and easier to handle in JOSM.

Someone mentioned that someone has broken audio in a recent JOSM 
version. I haven't had a chance to check yet, but I have made no changes 
to the audio recently.

On a bike, I suggest using a cheapo PC headset (with a bit of sponge 
over the mic) rather than the built-in mic as it is completely hands 
free then.

David

On 01/01/2009 16:58, Gregory wrote:
 I got a new olympus digital voice recorder for Christmas, which means I 
 have to use http://code.google.com/p/odvr/ to download the recordings to 
 my linux/ubuntu computer. Unfortunatly when downloading the wav files 
 the recorded date gets lost, but a table of the times can be displayed 
 on the command prompt.
 
 How does JOSM Audio get the date/time of the wav files?
 I tried changing the linux files atime and mtime (last accessed/modified 
 time), but the location marker for the audio does not change. Is it 
 using the ctime (created time)? I can not change the ctime and it gets 
 set to the time the files were downloaded off the voice recorder.
 
 I have filled an issue with the odvr downloader, but I want to confirm 
 that it is the ctime that needs to be right for JOSM. I was recording 
 ~2sec comments as I passed a location, so I have a trip with 60 
 recordings waiting to be mapped.
 
 My final idea is maybe I could make a JOSM plugin (now I've learnt some 
 Java) that takes a fixed-width txt table of time stamps and names, and 
 match the times to an open gpx file to create waypoints. This would mean 
 I have to open audio files outside of josm, but at least I would know 
 where they were recorded. Such a plugin may help people with other media 
 problems, ao I wonder has something along those lines already been done?
 
 I've been told audio mapping is more amazing than photo mapping, and it 
 would be ideal cycling in these cold winter months. Sadly it's not going 
 to well yet, so I hope to get this sorted.
 
 Gregory Marler
 http://www.livingwithdragons.com
 
 
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM Audio Mapping - Technical Issues

2009-01-02 Per discussione David Earl

I should also have said that the system *does* also handle multiple 
files already if you modify the GPX file to refer to the relevant audio 
files at the correct time stamps (as described in the help file).

A preprocessor to do this automatically would be very handy for people 
who want to work in this way.

David

On 02/01/2009 12:17, David Earl wrote:
 JOSM Audio is designed to sync *continuous* audio with the GPX track. 
 This means you don't have to fiddle with the recorder buttons every time 
 you want a voice note, you can just leave it in a pocket; but nor do you 
 have to listen to inordinate amounts of heavy breathing.
 
 See the JOSM help file at 
 http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/HowTo/AudioMapping for details 
 (or use Help while in JOSM, same thing).
 
 I too have an Olympus recorder. The clock on mine is about 0.15% out, 
 which means that a continuous sound track can be many tens of metres out 
 after an hour's recording, so make sure you at least check whether you 
 need to calibrate (as described in the help). I guess the time stamps 
 for multiple files will suffer from the same problem too unless the 
 recorder sampling rate and the time stamps run off a different clock.
 
 Note that in the long play mode the Olympus recorder (well, my model, so 
 I guess all of them) records 4 bit audio, so you'll need to convert it 
 to 8-bit using Audacity or similar before it is usable in JOSM. This is 
 quick and easy for one long file, but a bit tedious if you have to do it 
 for many small files.
 
 It would be relatively simple to extend the existing functionality to 
 also process a folder full of time-stamped WAV files, one for each GPX 
 waypoint; but really it is much easier just to record one long session - 
 easier to record, easier to preprocess and easier to handle in JOSM.
 
 Someone mentioned that someone has broken audio in a recent JOSM 
 version. I haven't had a chance to check yet, but I have made no changes 
 to the audio recently.
 
 On a bike, I suggest using a cheapo PC headset (with a bit of sponge 
 over the mic) rather than the built-in mic as it is completely hands 
 free then.
 
 David
 
 On 01/01/2009 16:58, Gregory wrote:
 I got a new olympus digital voice recorder for Christmas, which means I 
 have to use http://code.google.com/p/odvr/ to download the recordings to 
 my linux/ubuntu computer. Unfortunatly when downloading the wav files 
 the recorded date gets lost, but a table of the times can be displayed 
 on the command prompt.

 How does JOSM Audio get the date/time of the wav files?
 I tried changing the linux files atime and mtime (last accessed/modified 
 time), but the location marker for the audio does not change. Is it 
 using the ctime (created time)? I can not change the ctime and it gets 
 set to the time the files were downloaded off the voice recorder.

 I have filled an issue with the odvr downloader, but I want to confirm 
 that it is the ctime that needs to be right for JOSM. I was recording 
 ~2sec comments as I passed a location, so I have a trip with 60 
 recordings waiting to be mapped.

 My final idea is maybe I could make a JOSM plugin (now I've learnt some 
 Java) that takes a fixed-width txt table of time stamps and names, and 
 match the times to an open gpx file to create waypoints. This would mean 
 I have to open audio files outside of josm, but at least I would know 
 where they were recorded. Such a plugin may help people with other media 
 problems, ao I wonder has something along those lines already been done?

 I've been told audio mapping is more amazing than photo mapping, and it 
 would be ideal cycling in these cold winter months. Sadly it's not going 
 to well yet, so I hope to get this sorted.

 Gregory Marler
 http://www.livingwithdragons.com


 

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[OSM-talk] [Talk-de] Ideen zur Open-Spatial-Database / Open-Yellow-Pages

2009-01-02 Per discussione Alexander Zipf





Hierzu suche ich seit geraumer Zeit nach Diplomanden o.ae., die das mal
evaluieren könnten.
hatte die Idee ja schon im Spiegel Artikel angedeutet...  

ps. dass ein raumbezogenes Branchenverzeichnis/Yellow Pages genau die
IdeeAufgabe des OGC OpenLS Directory Service ist, der u.a. auch in
OpenRouteService z.Zt. für ganz Europa (auch dort wo routing noch nicht
geht) zur Verfügung steht (search POIs), ist bekannt? Bisher werden die
Objekte lediglich auf der Karte als Symbol dargestellt, aber da ist
natürlich mehr möglich, wollten es nur erstmal nicht überladen.

beste Grüße
alexander zipf
On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 16:48:42 +0100, Tobias Wendorff
tobias.wendorff at uni-dortmund.de wrote:
 Möglich wäre z.B., ein offenes Branchenverzeichnis zu erstellen.
 OSM verfügt momentan noch nicht überall über Hausnummern. Wenn
 man aber schonmal in der neuen Datenbank Informationen zu den
 einzelnen Punkten sammeln würde, könnte man sie irgendwann mit
 den OSM-Daten permanent oder temporär verbinden, wenn die
 Hausnummern da sind.


Hört sich gut an.

Weiterhin kann man sich folgendes vorstellen:

* eine Datenbank mit temporären Zusatzinformationen oder Änderungen der
Karte durch Baustellen, Feste, Staus, Sperrungen,...
* eine Datenbank in der real gemessene Fahrt-Zeiten gesammelt werden.

Wer hat weitere Vorschläge?

Marcus





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[OSM-talk] [Talk-de] Ideen zur Open-Spatial-Database / Open-Yellow-Pages

2009-01-02 Per discussione Alexander Zipf

please ignore previous email - wrong list...
sorry!
az


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[OSM-talk] FW: JOSM Audio Mapping - Technical Issues

2009-01-02 Per discussione Alberto Nogaro

-Original Message-
From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On
Behalf Of David Earl
Sent: venerdì 2 gennaio 2009 13.18
To: Gregory
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM Audio Mapping - Technical Issues

Someone mentioned that someone has broken audio in a recent JOSM
version. I haven't had a chance to check yet, but I have made no changes
to the audio recently.

This has been fixed now. It only affected JOSM v1167 to v1184: GPX timestamp
reading was broken if there was a timezone but no fractional seconds.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Syntactic conventions for tags

2009-01-02 Per discussione Andrew Chadwick (mailing lists)

Jochen Topf wrote:
 On Thu, Jan 01, 2009 at 11:01:48PM +, Andrew Chadwick (mailing lists) 
 wrote:
 (Actually, I like the colon syntax a lot. Wonder if it's worth 
 formalising that a bit more, saying that either order matters, or order 
 doesn't matter?)
 
 Of course the order matters, otherwise its a different tag key.

But of course. What I'm doing here is descriptive, not prescriptive. A 
guide to patterns in how people tend to name things rather than how the 
DB and OSM XML constrain things, for the most part. Does that make sense?

There might be some usable technical fallout too.

 The Venn
 diagrams you describe are the wrong image, because sets are unordered.

Probably right. Too much seeing name:source as well as source:name in my 
local area, I guess.

 In most cases a colon is not a sign for a meta-tag as you describe there,
 but more of a namespace. This is most often used for external data
 attached to imports. See for instance all the keys starting with
 tiger:.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Any_tags_you_like#Syntactic_conventions_for_new_tags

Updated, based on 
http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Europe/En/top_undocumented_keys.html . Can 
you re-check? I've identified four patterns that seem to be present, do 
you see the same?

-- 
Andrew Chadwick


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Re: [OSM-talk] ITO animation for 2008

2009-01-02 Per discussione Peter Miller


On 1 Jan 2009, at 22:45, Inge Wallin wrote:

 On Thursday 01 January 2009 03:27:32 Ian Dees wrote:

 Can the guys at itoWorld talk about how they made this video? I'd  
 like
 to do a semi realtime rotating globe with edits. I think that'd be
 awfully neat.

 Just a tip:  You could probably use Marble as a base for this  
 application if
 you don't have a realtime rotating globe already.

 http://edu.kde.org/marble


Sorry for not getting back to you already.

Nearly all the code we use is our own proprietary Open GL 
(http://www.opengl.org/ 
) based App written by ITO that combines the key elements from the  
transport modeling world and film special effects to allow us to  
understand, manipulate, render and analyse very large transport  
systems. We designed this to combine a semantic understanding of the  
transport system together with fast rendering.

For this animation we used 52 weekly planet dumps and then rendered  
the individual lightning flashes in each week from the relevant planet  
dump. Each frame had all the planet data available to it and one of  
the tricks was to knock back the processing time to something were we  
could render 2000+ frames in a sensible amount of time.

I have a background in real-time transport management and modeling and  
my colleague Hal Bertram has a background in film special effects. You  
can read more about Hal's earlier  film work here 
(http://www.halbertram.com/about.html 
) including some details of when we worked together  in the late  
1980's at the Henson Creature Shop and his more recent work on Harry  
Potter and on Troy.

There is more detail about his techniques for high-speed rendering  
available (http://www.halbertram.com/trick/index.html) which I don't  
pretend to understand but his work at Henson in the 1990's was all  
about creating the ability for CGI characters to be rendered in real  
time so that the real actors and the crew could see what was proposed  
at the time the film was created rather than weeks later in post- 
production - and this of course had to happen on computers that was  
far slower than today's ones.

We have put in a good couple of years building up the code-base so  
that we can now do things like this relatively easily and we hope to  
do lots of new fun stuff with it in 2009. One of the things are  
wanting to do is make it possible for OSM Mapper users to create their  
own animations and large visuals through our website. We are working  
on speeding up the rendering processes to make this possible at the  
moment.

It is our intention to continue to support OSM contributors with free  
on-line products (such as OSM Mapper) and also to provide paid-for  
subscriptions for individuals and smaller organisations as well as for  
professional users for other map and transport based products to keep  
the show on the road.

We expect to offer subscribers to OSM Mapper the ability to create  
shorter animations for free, with larger ones available for  'pro'  
accounts, available for a modest annual fee, Pro accounts will be for  
people who want to burn more computer time and bandwidth creating  
larger animations or many of them. We are still figuring out the  
details, but I think you can be confident that it will be attractive,  
universal and affordable.



Regards,



Peter Miller
ITO World



   -Inge

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Re: [OSM-talk] ITO animation for 2008

2009-01-02 Per discussione Matt Amos

On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote:
 We have put in a good couple of years building up the code-base so
 that we can now do things like this relatively easily and we hope to
 do lots of new fun stuff with it in 2009. One of the things are
 wanting to do is make it possible for OSM Mapper users to create their
 own animations and large visuals through our website. We are working
 on speeding up the rendering processes to make this possible at the
 moment.

where did you get the cool music from? its credited to vincent gerès,
but a quick google didn't seem to fetch anything relevant.

cheers,

matt

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Re: [OSM-talk] Maritme borders

2009-01-02 Per discussione Steven te Brinke

IMO, the proposal of Gustav is better, because maritime borders clearly 
are administrative. Martijn suggests that there is a clear difference 
between country and maritime borders. However, it are different 
properties of a border: a border can be one or both. The half of the 
Dutch country border is a maritime border. So I would propose to use 
boundary=administrative on all maritime borders and use another tag to 
distinguish them.
Currently, borders are distinguished by admin_level. The wiki tells 
about admin_level: admin_level 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:admin_level=1 to 10 has been 
introduced in order that different borders can be rendered consistently 
among countries (doing this based on border_type would require knowledge 
of their hierarchy in each country). Based on this information, I 
conclude that every border has a border_type, but we tag it as 
admin_level for convenience. For example: border_type=province and 
inside(The Netherlands) implies admin_level=4. We mainly tag the 
admin_level only, because that one is the easier for rendering, but we 
think about it as border types and sometimes tag border_type too. So I 
would propose to use border_type for any border that has no admin_level 
defined. Thus the territorial sea will have admin_level=2 because it's a 
country border, but any other maritime border will only have border_type 
set. That works quite well with the current tagging: border_type is 
optional when admin_level is set, required otherwise. Also for rendering 
it's no problem: render borders based on admin_level and when that one's 
empty, use border_type. The only thing that remains is: which 
border_types are possible? Probably exclusive_economic_zone will be one 
of them.


Steven


Gustav Foseid schreef:
On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Martijn van Oosterhout 
klep...@gmail.com mailto:klep...@gmail.com wrote:


boundary=maritime?


or something like:

boundary=administrative
admin_maritime=territorial

?

 - Gustav



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Re: [OSM-talk] ITO animation for 2008

2009-01-02 Per discussione Peter Miller


On 2 Jan 2009, at 18:24, Matt Amos wrote:

 On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com 
  wrote:
 We have put in a good couple of years building up the code-base so
 that we can now do things like this relatively easily and we hope to
 do lots of new fun stuff with it in 2009. One of the things are
 wanting to do is make it possible for OSM Mapper users to create  
 their
 own animations and large visuals through our website. We are working
 on speeding up the rendering processes to make this possible at the
 moment.

 where did you get the cool music from? its credited to vincent gerès,
 but a quick google didn't seem to fetch anything relevant.


We got it off Jamendo about 3 years ago for another project and re- 
used it for this project. I tried to track him down on Jamendo and  
Google to give him credit without success before Xmas. No idea why.

If you want some music then this is a good site:
http://www.jamendo.com/en/albums



Regards,


Peter



 cheers,

 matt


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Re: [OSM-talk] ITO animation for 2008

2009-01-02 Per discussione Pieren

On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote:

 On 2 Jan 2009, at 18:24, Matt Amos wrote:

 where did you get the cool music from? its credited to vincent gerès,
 but a quick google didn't seem to fetch anything relevant.


 We got it off Jamendo about 3 years ago for another project and re-
 used it for this project. I tried to track him down on Jamendo and
 Google to give him credit without success before Xmas. No idea why.

 If you want some music then this is a good site:
 http://www.jamendo.com/en/albums


Is it Vincent Girès and not Gerès,
a belgian artist:
http://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/silence
editing under the name Silence ?

There is one Vincent Girès on Facebook. Not sure if it is the same
but most probably.

Pieren

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Re: [OSM-talk] ITO animation for 2008

2009-01-02 Per discussione Peter Miller


On 2 Jan 2009, at 22:05, Pieren wrote:

 On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com 
  wrote:

 On 2 Jan 2009, at 18:24, Matt Amos wrote:

 where did you get the cool music from? its credited to vincent  
 gerès,
 but a quick google didn't seem to fetch anything relevant.


 We got it off Jamendo about 3 years ago for another project and re-
 used it for this project. I tried to track him down on Jamendo and
 Google to give him credit without success before Xmas. No idea why.

 If you want some music then this is a good site:
 http://www.jamendo.com/en/albums


 Is it Vincent Girès and not Gerès,
 a belgian artist:
 http://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/silence
 editing under the name Silence ?

 There is one Vincent Girès on Facebook. Not sure if it is the same
 but most probably.

Quite right. Thank you, we had just sorted that out ourselves and have  
posted a correction on the vimeo site.

We will do him a proper credit on the vimeo page and email him to let  
him know and say thanks.


Thanks,



Peter



 Pieren


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Re: [OSM-talk] ITO animation for 2008

2009-01-02 Per discussione Matt Amos

On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com 
 wrote:
 On 2 Jan 2009, at 18:24, Matt Amos wrote:
 where did you get the cool music from? its credited to vincent gerès,
 but a quick google didn't seem to fetch anything relevant.

 We got it off Jamendo about 3 years ago for another project and re-
 used it for this project. I tried to track him down on Jamendo and
 Google to give him credit without success before Xmas. No idea why.

 If you want some music then this is a good site:
 http://www.jamendo.com/en/albums

 Is it Vincent Girès and not Gerès,
 a belgian artist:
 http://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/silence
 editing under the name Silence ?

 There is one Vincent Girès on Facebook. Not sure if it is the same
 but most probably.

it is indeed. for anyone else interested, i managed to find the track
- it is open electro from the eponymous silence
(http://www.archive.org/details/silence-silence). the vincent girès on
facebook seems to be the same one as here
http://www.untitledocument.net/about/, but strangely the eponymous
album is not mentioned.

cheers,

matt

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[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - internet_access (for inet cafes)

2009-01-02 Per discussione Stefan Hirschmann

Hi!

Now the proposal
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Internet_access
is in the voting phase. Please vote.

Cheers Stefan

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[OSM-talk] http://openstreetmap.org not working?

2009-01-02 Per discussione Peter Miller


Should the URL http://openstreetmap.org/ work?

I think I used to use it but today it just hangs and never returns  
anything.

For most of the day I thought it was that the servers were still down  
but I have now noticed that they do work from 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html



Regards,


Peter



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Re: [OSM-talk] http://openstreetmap.org not working?

2009-01-02 Per discussione Shaun McDonald


On 3 Jan 2009, at 00:00, Peter Miller wrote:


 Should the URL http://openstreetmap.org/ work?

 I think I used to use it but today it just hangs and never returns
 anything.

 For most of the day I thought it was that the servers were still down
 but I have now noticed that they do work from 
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html


Not had any problems here. Could this be your cache again?

Shaun


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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Fietspaden ***

2009-01-02 Per discussione Matthijs Benschop

Op Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:42:39 +0100, schreef Geert Schuring:


 Maar feitelijk is het (in veel gevallen) wel dezelfde weg. Ik heb
 geleerd dat een weg loopt van berm tot berm. Eventuele bermen om
 verschillende rijbanen te scheiden dus niet meegerekent.
 
 Waar haal je deze definitie vandaan?

Mijn rijinstructeur :P
 
 Zowiezo een middenberm de aanleiding te laten zijn voor 2x oneway lijkt
 mij erg overdreven. Zie dit voorbeeld:
 
 
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?
lat=52.082466amp;lon=4.900045amp;zoom=18amp;layers=B000FTF
 
 
 Dit voorbeeld geeft juist heel mooi aan waarom je fietspaden en
 gescheiden rijbanen *wel* apart moet definiëren. Laat het beeld dat
 Mapnik maakt even los, en denk puur aan het model dat je opbouwt in de
 OSM database. In de situatie van jou voorbeeld is het belangrijk dat een
 routing engine aanwijzingen kan geven aan een (brom)fietser aan welke
 kant van de steinhagenseweg het fietspad ligt, en dus bij welk
 verkeerslicht overgestoken moet worden. Ook is eenrichtingsverkeer op
 fietspaden vaak anders geregeld dan op de autoweg ernaast.

Aangehaalde voorbeeld gaf ik om een voorbeeld van een middenberm te 
geven. Het fietspad aldaar is idd juist getagged. Ben inmiddels al 
overstag en heb ook de voordelen van de losse fietspaden gezien. :)

 [..]

 Als ik werkelijk elk fietspad naast een weg ga tekenen dan wordt osm de
 lelijkste kaart die er is... En de voorbeelden heb ik al gegeven.
 
 Vergeet de kaart zoals we die nu visualiseren. De kaart bestaat niet,
 er bestaat alleen een model in een database, en aan de hand van een
 use-case dien je hiervan een visualisatie te maken, waarbij je alleen
 dat laat zien wat relevant is. Een autokaart hoeft dus geen fietspaden
 en voetpaden te laten zien, en een fietskaart kan ervoor kiezen om
 autowegen, tankstations en parkeerplaatsen gedeeltelijk weg te laten.

Bedankt voor je uitgebreide toelichting!



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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Fietspaden ***

2009-01-02 Per discussione Geert Schuring

- Original Message 
From: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list talk-nl@openstreetmap.org
To: talk-nl@openstreetmap.org talk-nl@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Fietspaden ***
Date: 02/01/09 18:20

 Op Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:42:39 +0100, schreef Geert Schuring:

 gt;gt; Maar feitelijk is het (in veel gevallen) wel dezelfde weg. Ik heb
 gt;gt; geleerd dat een weg loopt van berm tot berm. Eventuele bermen om
 gt;gt; verschillende rijbanen te scheiden dus niet meegerekent.
 gt; 
 gt; Waar haal je deze definitie vandaan?

 Mijn rijinstructeur :P

Ik vermoedde al zoiets. :) Het punt is dat een 'weg' niet hetzelfde is als
een 'way'. De weg zoals we die in nederland kennen wordt inderdaad
gekenmerkt door definities zoals jij noemde, maar een way is een abstract
object, gedefinieerd door een verzameling locatie punten. Waar een weg met
los liggende fietspaden voor de verkeerswet 1 weg kan zijn, is voor OSM elke
verschillende weg of pad een 'way'.

 gt;gt; Zowiezo een middenberm de aanleiding te laten zijn voor 2x oneway
lijkt
 gt;gt; mij erg overdreven. Zie dit voorbeeld:
 gt;gt; 
 gt;gt; 
 gt; http://www.openstreetmap.org/?
 lat=52.082466amp;amp;lon=4.900045amp;amp;zoom=18amp;amp;layers=B000FTF
 gt;gt; 
 gt;gt; 
 gt; Dit voorbeeld geeft juist heel mooi aan waarom je fietspaden en
 gt; gescheiden rijbanen *wel* apart moet definiëren. Laat het beeld dat
 gt; Mapnik maakt even los, en denk puur aan het model dat je opbouwt in
de
 gt; OSM database. In de situatie van jou voorbeeld is het belangrijk dat
een
 gt; routing engine aanwijzingen kan geven aan een (brom)fietser aan welke
 gt; kant van de steinhagenseweg het fietspad ligt, en dus bij welk
 gt; verkeerslicht overgestoken moet worden. Ook is eenrichtingsverkeer op
 gt; fietspaden vaak anders geregeld dan op de autoweg ernaast.

 Aangehaalde voorbeeld gaf ik om een voorbeeld van een middenberm te 
 geven. Het fietspad aldaar is idd juist getagged. Ben inmiddels al 
 overstag en heb ook de voordelen van de losse fietspaden gezien. :)

Ja dat las ik. Ik schrijf dit soort dingen eigenlijk voor iedereen die het
leest, en om mogelijk wat discussie los te krijgen.

 gt; [..]
 gt;
 gt;gt; Als ik werkelijk elk fietspad naast een weg ga tekenen dan wordt
osm de
 gt;gt; lelijkste kaart die er is... En de voorbeelden heb ik al gegeven.
 gt; 
 gt; Vergeet de kaart zoals we die nu visualiseren. quot;De kaartquot;
bestaat niet,
 gt; er bestaat alleen een model in een database, en aan de hand van een
 gt; use-case dien je hiervan een visualisatie te maken, waarbij je alleen
 gt; dat laat zien wat relevant is. Een autokaart hoeft dus geen
fietspaden
 gt; en voetpaden te laten zien, en een fietskaart kan ervoor kiezen om
 gt; autowegen, tankstations en parkeerplaatsen gedeeltelijk weg te laten.

 Bedankt voor je uitgebreide toelichting!

My pleasure.

Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.10

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[OSM-talk-nl] Standaard shop = department_store

2009-01-02 Per discussione Ronald

Sinds kort is er een nieuwe soort winkel bijgekomen:
de department_store
Graag wil ik de definitie weten van de department store (of in goed
Nederlands: het warenhuis) en wel gewoon praktisch.
Omdat in Nederland de winkels redelijk gelijk geschakeld is, heb ik het voor
mezelf dit vertaald in het volgende lijstje:
de Bijenkorf
V  D
Hema
Blokker

maar dit is voor discussie vatbaar, misschien hebben andere mensen andere
ideeën erover.

Ronald


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[talk-au] Upcoming (daytime) Brisbane Mapping Party

2009-01-02 Per discussione David Dean


If there are any Brisbane locals here, please consider attending the third
Brisbane mapping party which will be held on Saturday the 7th of February.
Unlike the previous two mapping parties, this one will be held in the
daylight (whoa!) and will be a little more ambitious as we have more time to
work with.

There will be a lunch and dinner social event as well to meet up with fellow
Brisbane mappers. More details are available at the wiki page:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Brisbane/Mapping_Parties/2009-02 .
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Upcoming-%28daytime%29-Brisbane-Mapping-Party-tp21262443p21262443.html
Sent from the OpenStreetMap - Australian Talk mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.


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Re: [Talk-de] INFAS Kreisgrenzen

2009-01-02 Per discussione Norbert Kück



Jochen Topf schrieb:
 On Thu, Jan 01, 2009 at 10:55:20PM +0100, Norbert Kück wrote:
 Du meinst die bestehenden Daten aus dem Import sind andersrum?
 Exakt. In Niedersachsen haben 1 und 2 die Rolle outer und in Freie  
 Hansestadt Bremen inner.
 
 Dann ist der Import da falsch. Oder jemand hat das nach dem Import schon
 geändert. Kann durchaus sein, dass der Import falsch war, das Skript,
 was die Daten konvertiert hat, war nicht perfekt und hat nicht unbedingt
 alle corner cases richtig behandelt.
Habe das sehr früh gesehen - sehr wahrscheinlich, dass das der 
Originalzustand war. Mir ging es um Klärung der mich verwirrenden 
Situation. Dieser Ort ist aber (auch wegen der Sache Küstenlinie=Grenze 
in einer Flussmündung) schon etwas spezielles.

Gruß
nk

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Re: [Talk-de] INFAS: xapi

2009-01-02 Per discussione kannix

Jochen Topf schrieb:
On Thu, Jan 01, 2009 at 06:28:59PM +0100, kannix wrote:
Aber auf mich wollte ja keiner hoeren, als ich

source=infas_geodaten_kreisgrenzen_import
source:ref=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue/Kreisgrenzen_Deutschland_2005

Fred und ich hatten uns diesen Vorschlag angeschaut. Der source:ref Tag
ist m.E. problematisch, da sehr ähnlich zu source_ref. Und gleich die
URL im source zu haben spart ein Tag. Irgendwie ist es ziemlich
unbefriedigend, dass jeder das source-Zeug verschieden handhabt. Aber
wenigestens ist nun die URL drin, damit man auch was finden kann dazu.
Es gibt so viele source-Tags, wo man nur raten kann, was sie bedeuten
sollen.

Keine Frage: die wichtigste Info ist drin. Bei meinem kurz+lang
Vorschlag sehe ich den Vorteil, auch einen Blick die Quelle zu erkennen
(kurz=source) und bei Interesse weiterfuehrende Infos zu erhalten (die
'Docks' der Editoren sind ja in der Regel so klein/kurz, dass auf den
ersten Blick nur ein http://www... zu lesen ist).

Bleibt die Frage, wie ich schnell (xapi) einen Satz Daten anhand einer
URL herausfiltern kann. Bei der Bearbeitung grosser Gebiete die einzige
Moeglichkeit, etwas Uebersicht zu behalten.
Das ist auch gleich mein Wunsch an die Editoren Josm und Merkaartor
fuers neue Jahr: Irgendeine Art von 'Layersteuerung' um -fuer den
Bearbeiter uninteressante- Objekte auszublenden...

Viele Gruesse, Dirk

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Re: [Talk-de] INFAS Kreisgrenzen

2009-01-02 Per discussione Detlef Reichl

Am Freitag, den 02.01.2009, 01:06 +0100 schrieb Frederik Ramm:
 der Umriss von Bremen 
 muss natuerlich outer in der Grenzrelation Bremen und inner in der 
 Grenzrelation Niedersachsen sein.

Jetzt hab ichs. Danke!

Grüßle, detlef


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Re: [Talk-de] Mapping Quality - News

2009-01-02 Per discussione Gary G:

hi marcus,

du kannst dir selber einen überblick verschaffen und nach belieben kalkulieren. 
die rohdaten werden von mir in *.csv bereitgestellt. wiki Mapping Quality. du 
findest die spalten Rad Source und Radius. nimm die mit source = auto.

es gibt meist nur für villages und towns einen wert, der (im moment) 
automatisch gerechnet wird. bei den cities/suburbs ist es schwierig (selbst mit 
menschlichem hirn) allgemeingültig die grenzen zu ziehen.

ps: es rechnet noch, denke aber, dass heute nachmittag ganz deutschland in 
einer neuen beta gerechnet und veröffentlicht ist.

ciao

gerhard
gary68


- original Nachricht 

Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] Mapping Quality - News
Gesendet: Fr, 02. Jan 2009
Von: marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com

 On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 21:22:28 +0100, Gary68 g...@gary68.de wrote:
  hi,
  
  wer möchte, kann sich mal 
  
  http://www.gary68.de/osm/qa/unmapped/hessen.png
  
  ansehen. neues:
  
  - radius daten können aus osm daten (tags) gewonnen werden - kann man
  hier noch nicht sehen. siehe auch
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapping_Quality
  - ich habe eine automatische erkennung der ausdehnung gebaut. sie
  funktioniert bei etwa 20% der places. das ist aber relativ, da sie
  unmapped places nicht berücksichtigt.
  
  die kreise beschreiben die (angenommene) ausdehnung
  - blau = osm (hier noch nicht zu sehen)
  - orange = auto
  - dunkel grau = default (wie gehabt)
  
  unter den kreisen stehen die radien.
  
  ich bin eigentlich erst mal ganz zufrieden :-))
 
 Cool.
 
 Kannst du mal für die automatische Erkennung
 Statistiken machen, wie gross eine place=city,
 place=village,... typischerweise ist?
 Damit könnten wir die geratenen Werte auf
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing#City
 durch bessere Schätzungen ersetzen.
 
 Marcus 
 

--- original Nachricht Ende 


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