Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

3/1/2005  10:06 PM

Hi Mic,

On 2/27/2005 Mic Cullen wrote:

MC> The same, but my statement stands: if you have any idea as to what you're 
doing,
MC> the downsized output from a higher quality quality camera is going to be 
better
MC> than from a cheaper one. I don't think this is much of a stretch for people
MC> who've done both and who know what they're doing.

It is sad to see you challenged by ordinary English. This was about
the resolution of the pictures, not the quality of the camera.
Besides, the quality of the optics influences the quality of the
picture much  more than the electronics.

Next week we are starting digital photography 101 and have one opening
available.

-- 
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

3/1/2005  10:00 PM

Hi Tony,

On 2/27/2005 Tony Boom wrote:

TB>  In an ideal world yes, but you tick the box for one message and forget to
TB>  untick it, what happens then? Achilles and all his mates come charging in.

TB>  How about a button on the header pane that works on a per message basis.
TB>  It only appears if the message is html and requires images to be
TB>  downloaded. You click it, the pretty pictures appear and then it defaults
TB>  to off for the next message?

This is how it works in Foxmail.

-- 
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

3/1/2005  10:13 PM

Hi The,

On 2/27/2005 The Final Cut wrote:

TFC> Pocomail, incredimail, eurora, Express plus are all email
TFC> clients that their programmers don't code browsers
TFC> they all have great html supports too!

Duh, they use IE.

-- 
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

3/1/2005  9:33 PM

Hi Leif,

On 2/27/2005 Leif Gregory wrote:

LG> Hi Goncalo,

GF>> If it's something you can switch on or off then you're in no more
GF>> danger than being alive.

GF>> I'm sure you manage to get a better justification!

LG> People in general do need to be protected from themselves. It makes it
LG> rough on those of us in the know, but if it means my mom and dad are
LG> protected I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of so-called "functionality"
LG> to do that.

I have been out of town and just now could get my messages. You said
this very well! We who are in the know have a responsibility to look
out for those who aren't, at least until they have time to play
catchup. However, you will always have the newbies. Let's stop being
selfish and address the common good and contribute to a safer, more
private Internet.

-- 
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

3/1/2005  9:50 PM

Hi Leif,

On 2/27/2005 Leif Gregory wrote:

LG> Hi Goncalo,

LG> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, at 17:01:39 [GMT +] (which was 10:01 AM where
LG> I live) you wrote:
GF>> I really don't care about other users, I care about my needs and
GF>> if I can accomplish them with the software I'm using.

LG> Exactly the poor attitude Tony, Paul and I are trying to curtail. The
LG> completely selfish, me first attitude. Let the rest of the world
LG> suffer as long as I get what I want.

LG> Cookidence...

AMEN!

-- 
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


KT> Hello Goncalo,
KT> On Sunday, February 27, 2005 you wrote:

>> Why  not  integrate,  as  an option, the IE engine into the TB? You
>> don't  want  to  use  it,  fine, stick with internal render engine.
>> People who don't mind do as they want to.

KT> No.  This  would  be a security flaw, and would influence not only
KT> the  ones  that  turn  the option on, but also the others. Besides
KT> IE's engine is quite old and relatively poor.

I  tend  to disagree. If it's old and poor I don't really know, what I
know is that it renders better looking pages than Firefox 1.01.
I  don't  see  why  it would be a security flaw if you could determine
which engine would render your html emails.


KT> Ritlabs  used  to  use an external HTML viewing engine and dropped
KT> it.  I'm  not sure if they would be in favour of using another 3rd
KT> party software for that. If they did, however, I'm quite sure this
KT> should  rather  be  Gecko -- since Presto is not embedable (I made
KT> this word up, sorry ;D).

Dunnow.  Don't  care about their tech choices as long as the result is
good.


-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

Yes my son, long ago mail was read 1 packet at a time.



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Cees]

Het was op zondag 27 februari 2005 om 22:13 uur dat jij iets schreef over 'html 
whitelist wish' :

Hallo Tony,
  
GF>> ui ui ui estou a tremer cheio de medo!
TB>  Sorry, don't speak Klingon.

 whahahahahaa.. :-))

-- 
regards, 
 Cees

Coming soon: Windows for Nintendo!
__
The Bat! 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha [A12F0392] running on Windows XP 5.1 build 2600 
Service Pack 2



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


TB> Hello The,

TB>   A reminder of what The Final Cut on TBBETA typed on:
TB>   27 February 2005 at 21:44:40 GMT +0100

TFC>> hahahaha I hope you are not serious!

TB>  Do you see me laughing?

TB>  Can you see his rouge image? That little boy he's just about to throw off
TB>  the cliff? I'm not risking that for the sake of html!

ui ui ui estou a tremer cheio de medo! :)

-- 
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Goncalo Farias

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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


GF>> Old soldiers never die,

TB> They just go on and on and on about the war :)

Hmmm... I better start signing my emails! :)


-- 
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Goncalo Farias

Blessed our young they will inherit our national debt.



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


DC>> I don't think any of us said it had to be 'right now' And as I've
DC>> said before, I agree that bug fixes should come first.

TB> I know, and you are right, html should be available for those that
TB> want  it. But can you see my point? Those of us that don't want it
TB> will be left with an unsupported version full of bugs.

I can't understand why. Isn't the check box to enable/disable enough?


TB> Fix  all  the  bugs  first,  then  implement html and at least the
TB> people  who  don't  want  the  update  will  have at least a fully
TB> working client, including IMAP of course.

?

-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

Je suis Marxiste, tendance Groucho!



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


DC> Tony Boom wrote:
>> Hello Leif,
>>  Also the reason I bowed out of the discussion. I want a bug free Bat
>>  before they make any new additions, they want html right now and Sod
>>  everyone else.

DC> I don't think any of us said it had to be 'right now'  And as I've said
DC> before, I agree that bug fixes should come first.


I said it too. :)

-- 
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


TB> Hello Goncalo,

TB>   A reminder of what Goncalo Farias on TBBETA typed on:
TB>   27 February 2005 at 20:53:00 GMT +0100

GF>> ahahahahaha...

TB>  You laugh all you want but I have a wife and family whom I love very much
TB>  and I'm certainly not going to put them at risk for the sake of a html
TB>  argument, I'd rather go back to using Outlook Express.


LoL!


-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

Old soldiers never die, they just fade away..



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :

GF>> I  don't  know and it really doesn't matter much, after all we're just
GF>> expressing our points of view.

TB>  Just so long as it doesn't differ from his too much you should be OK now
TB>  drop it will you *please*!

ahahahahaha...

-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

We believe men should fight their own battles.



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


TB>  You bet wrong. I'm not risking that, that's for sure. Now I think it best
TB>  we change the subject.

I  don't  know and it really doesn't matter much, after all we're just
expressing our points of view.



-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

73% of statistics are made up on the spot.



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


GF>> Sure  I do. He is the moderator. Did I said anything offensive? I
GF>> didn't call lemming to anyone, did I?

TB> It's  not  the moderator part that you need to worry about. Why do
TB> you think NO ONE else is arguing with him least of all me?

I'll bet you're going to tell me...

-- 
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Goncalo Farias

I KNEW I shouldn't have loaned my Sword+3 to the thief...



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


TB> Hello Goncalo,

TB>   A reminder of what Goncalo Farias on TBBETA typed on:
TB>   27 February 2005 at 20:05:59 GMT +0100

GF>> I  said  exactly  what he said. If he wants to be part of the solution
GF>> fine, if not, please step aside...

TB>  You don't know who he is do you?

Sure  I  do.  He  is  the  moderator. Did I said anything offensive? I
didn't call lemming to anyone, did I?

-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

You can't soar with dragons if you work with gargoyles.



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


TB> Hello Goncalo,

TB>   A reminder of what Goncalo Farias on TBBETA typed on:
TB>   27 February 2005 at 19:48:59 GMT +0100

GF>> So, do me a favor, be part of the solution or else...

TB> Oh dear, oh dear oh dear. Don't ya just love it when they get violent
TB> because they're losing an argument :)

What? You're from the supporting team? :)

I  said  exactly  what he said. If he wants to be part of the solution
fine, if not, please step aside...


-- 
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Goncalo Farias

Many would be cowards if they had courage enough.



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


GF>> Yeah,  right.  With  less then 2% of market share the last time I
GF>> saw some statistics their must be very popular.

LG> Yeah,  Mozilla  based  browsers are sucking up some serious market
LG> share.

Mozilla is not related to Opera, the example given by you.


LG> That  is  positively  the absolute worst idea you've yet proposed.
LG> You  want  to  tie TB in with IEs browser? RITLabs would be better
LG> suited  just  putting  a bullet into their own head. Tie in a nice
LG> secure e-mail program to the world's most notable security sieve!

Whatever, I said IE like I could have said Gecko or something else.
But  I  think  you're being a little paranoid with the security stuff.
They are much better.


GF>> It's  not?  Then  I must hallucinating because I receive loads of
GF>> HTML emails.

LG> More lemmings?

Shouldn't you moderate yourself?



GF>> It  may  not  be  official but it SURELY is part of email current
GF>> usage.

LG> Yes, and a fat lot of good it's done us. More spam, more expolits,
LG> more non-techy users having their e-mail blow up in their face and
LG> dragging  all their friends down with them by kindly sharing their
LG> "special" HTML e-mails just because they're in their addressbooks.

Like  I said, I real problems with HTML messages (mostly replying) but
you're not pointing out solutions. Probably you don't care with that.

You  seem to be caring with anonymous people security. TB has too much
options for normal non-techie users.

-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

He's mostly dead, Jim.  Get Miracle Max.



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :

GF>> Isn't  it exactly the same attitude you're exhibiting? Did anyone
GF>> mandate  you  to  define what is allowable or not in email usage?
GF>> What  feature  can  or  cannot  be included? What alternatives to
GF>> current features can be implemented or not?

LG> You're confusing someone who actually cares about TB being a truly
LG> good  product,  and  someone  who  wants  TB to be another lemming

You're wrong. I care about TB but I want it better you seem to want it
your  way. I paid for every paid version since I'm registered. I don't
mind paying I mind with bugs.


LG> application  who  follows bad practices just because everyone else
LG> is doing it.

Unfortunately TB isn't the only email client and it must be compatible
with   everybody.   What   good  is  an  email client if I'm unable to
exchange (or read) emails with (from) everybody else?


LG> Do me a favor. If you aren't going to be part of the solution, at
LG> least don't be part of the problem.

That  really applies to you too, don't you think? I have troubles with
HTML  emails that don't seem to affect you. So, do me a favor, be part
of the solution or else...

-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

Happiness is your favorite program moving to Windows.



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Cees]

Het was op zondag 27 februari 2005 om 18:34 uur dat jij iets schreef over 'html 
whitelist wish' :

Hallo Greg,

GS> Ok now you have me thinking. IIRC didn't you publish a quite lengthy
GS> installation for the MyGate plugin or was it MailTraq?
GS> If you used both which is better?

 as  always I'm doing several things at the same time... ahdh... sorry, can't
 help it. :-)

 Created  a  real  IMAP4  useraccount in TheBat! ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) for testing
 purposes... lot of new options to me. I'll figure them out.

 Secondly...  I'm  using  MailTraq  as  a mailserver (among other things: for
 IMAP,  I  got  influenced  by  Allie   ) and am struggling to get that
 newsserver  bit  to  work.  Which  is  harder  than  I thought. And the HELP
 function helps but just a teensy weensy bit ;-))

 I'll let you know when it works.

-- 
groeten, 
 Cees

A gun gives you the body, not the bird.

The Bat! 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha [A12F0392] running on Windows XP 5.1 build 2600 
Service Pack 2



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


TB>> Also  the reason I bowed out of the discussion. I want a bug free
TB>> Bat  before they make any new additions, they want html right now
TB>> and Sod everyone else.

TFC> Didnt  you  say  earlier in the threat that this feature has been
TFC> requested for around 4 years?

And  I  said  that  I  wanted  TB  bugfree  first of all. They tend to
misreading some parts...

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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


DC> Goncalo Farias wrote:
>> It's  really  easy  then.  They could provide us users a way to choose
>> between  the HTML internal engine or the IE engine. That way, everyone
>> would be happy! :)

DC> Err, Wouldn't using the IE Engine be a big security hole?  Gecko (From
DC> Firefox/Mozilla) would be a better idea.

What ever. It was just and example. They could use Webster Pro control
to cut the development (HTML 3.2 is fully supported, including Frames)
or something else... I don't care about their technical approach.

-- 
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Goncalo Farias

** ERROR **  Unable to insert witty tagline.



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Cees]

Het was op zondag 27 februari 2005 om 18:19 uur dat jij iets schreef over 'html 
whitelist wish' :

Hallo Greg,

>> Cookidence...
>> Tagline of the day:
>> "deja moo," the feeling that you've heard this bull before.

GS> ROFLMAO!!!

 Yeah! I stole that one immediately for my own taglinelist hehehe... it's
 great!

-- 
groeten, 
 Cees

I don't care who you are, Fatso. Get the reindeer off my roof!

The Bat! 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha [A12F0392] running on Windows XP 5.1 build 2600 
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :

GF>> I  really don't care about other users, I care about my needs and
GF>> if I can accomplish them with the software I'm using.

LG> Exactly  the poor attitude Tony, Paul and I are trying to curtail.
LG> The  completely  selfish,  me  first attitude. Let the rest of the
LG> world suffer as long as I get what I want.
LG> Cookidence...

Isn't  it  exactly  the  same  attitude  you're exhibiting? Did anyone
mandate  you  to  define what is allowable or not in email usage? What
feature  can  or  cannot  be  included?  What  alternatives to current
features can be implemented or not?


--
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

"Hi, I'm Barney..."  Now you're extinct.



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


GF>> It's  part of the new era. RITLabs surely won't straighten up the
GF>> usage of email, they must go along with the major players and the
GF>> major players do have GOOD HTML support.

LG> So if your friend jumps off a bridge, you're going to do it too?

No comments. It doesn't apply.


LG> Remember  Opera?  They refused to improperly render HTML pages due
LG> to  sloppy  markup.  They  caught flack over it for sure, but they
LG> stuck to their guns. They're still very popular.

Yeah,  right.  With  less  then 2% of market share the last time I saw
some statistics their must be very popular.


LG> The  reason  other  "players" have good HTML support is that these
LG> other  player  also  write  browsers. They implement their browser
LG> into  their  e-mail product. Do I have anything against TB writing
LG> their  own  browser...  Nope.  Would  I rather they spend the time
LG> making   TB   a  better  and  more  solid  product  for  *e-mail*.
LG> Definitely.

Why  not integrate, as an option, the IE engine into the TB? You don't
want  to  use  it, fine, stick with internal render engine. People who
don't mind do as they want to.

Who  are  you  anyway  to impose your view and your way to others? Why
can't the product have alternatives just because you don't like them?
I don't like IMAP. Did you saw me requesting to cut it off TB?


GF>> If I had the same attitude that a few other showed up I would say
GF>> something like "I don't use IMAP, I don't care if it has bugs or
GF>> not I rather have HTML rendered correctly" but I find both things
GF>> important.

LG> IMAP is part of e-mail. HTML isn't. Poor argument.

It's  not?  Then  I must hallucinating because I receive loads of HTML
emails.

It may not be official but it SURELY is part of email current usage.


-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

He who fart in church, sit in pew



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :

GF>> the  misuse  of the technology they were providing. Now they made
GF>> it  more  secure  (not perfectly secure) without cutting down the
GF>> functionality that people had.

LG> Sure  they  did.  MS hosts a page listing hundreds of applications
LG> they broke by trying to fix their mistakes.

Can  you  post  the  link?  I'm  curious.  Even  though,  they  broke
third-party apps not their own! :)


GF>> some  people just don't know any better. The car makers don't put
GF>> speed  limits  in their cars because they might be bought by some
GF>> lame driver that may kill himself.

LG> You've  never  heard  of  governors?  They're  on  nearly every US
LG> military  vehicle. And many high performance vehicles have them in
LG> case  you  loan your car to your kid. You put a key in, and enable
LG> the governor.

Correct  me  if I'm wrong but isn't this example what we're requesting
and that you prefer not to have because most people might not know how
to enable the 'governor'? You prefer to not have the technology rather
than  have  it  there  but  disabled  by default. I find that attitude
wrong.


LG> So  let's  look at it for people who are incapable of being a safe
LG> driver.  They  lose  their license, they are put in jail, they are
LG> required  to  have  interlock  devices installed in their vehicles
LG> (drunk  driving).  ISPs  already  shut  down  spammer  accounts or
LG> accounts  of  people doing things illegally. Are you ready to have
LG> your   ISP  shut  down  your  account  because  you  enabled  some
LG> functionality   without  fully  understanding  the  ramifications?

I don't qualify for that example! :)


LG> something that could have simply been mitigated by not opening the
LG> door in the first place, then go for Outlook. Friends love friends
LG> who send them viruses and spam.

Yeah,  RitLabs  must  be  tremendously  happy  with  you sending their
customers to other software vendors just because you believe that your
vision and needs are better then everybody else.


GF>> Make  an  easy mode for 'rookie' users and a Power mode for power
GF>> users.

LG> Yeah  right.  The first time a user has to turn on "advanced" mode
LG> just  so  they  can  see  images in HTML messages, they'll have it
LG> enabled and then god knows what else they'll turn on.

And so what? Are you the cop of email world? Do you dictate the rules?
Warn them about the dangers of turning that option ON.


GF>> I like to be able to do everything and then choose what I don't
GF>> want to do just because I want to not because I can't.

LG> For tech savvy users this is fine. I worked for AOL for a while in
LG> DSL  tech  support.  I'm  not  going  to  say  all  AOL  users are
LG> boneheads,  but  as a techy, AOL people scare the living daylights
LG> out of me!

Cars aren't sold just for good drivers, big maniacs can also buy them.


GF>> I disagree. That sort of speak is good for the "big brother
GF>> watching you".

LG> Yeah, preventing images in HTML mail means RITLabs is watching you.
LG> Makes a lot of sense. You win.. and I quote.. "Plase..."

Your  vision  and how you're defending it is, not Ritlabs. They didn't
post any position on this.



-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

If anything -can't- go wrong, it will



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


LG> Hi Goncalo,

LG> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, at 14:07:07 [GMT +] (which was 7:07 AM where
LG> I live) you wrote:

GF>> I'm sure you manage to get a better justification!

LG> Let's expound a bit on this though Goncalo. Why exactly is it that
LG> IE  is  so  vulnerable in so many ways? It's because IE, like many
LG> other  Microsoft  products,  tries to do it all. Well, that's only
LG> part   of  the  reason,  they  try  to  integrate  so  much  cross
LG> application  functionality  is  a  better  answer.  They  did this
LG> because  users  wanted  this  and  users  wanted that. They did it
LG> because  Microsoft  wanted  a  bigger market share. They wanted to
LG> dominate. They wanted to be able to do it all.

I  disagree.  It's  vulnerable because MS was unable to anticipate the
misuse  of  the  technology they were providing. Now they made it more
secure  (not  perfectly secure) without cutting down the functionality
that people had.


LG> But  they screwed up. Users began to realize that functionality at
LG> the  cost of security wasn't acceptable. Microsoft won the browser
LG> war, but it was a short lived win. What good are the spoils of war
LG> if they really are spoiled and tainted.

Power comes at a cost. It's not acceptable to have limits because some
people   just  don't  know  any better. The car makers don't put speed
limits  in their cars because they might be bought by some lame driver
that may kill himself.


LG> Now  granted. IE made their primary mistake because everything was
LG> "on"  by  default.  But  my point is that Microsoft gave the users
LG> what  they  wanted  without  ever  trying  to tell them why it was
LG> risky.  The internet used to be a wonderful place, now you have to
LG> check, double-check and triple check just about everything you do.
LG> Popups  were  a  great  idea  at  first.  A  nice  way  to display
LG> information  without  disrupting the flow of the visitors browsing
LG> of their main site. Now we have a whole box of bandaids to prevent
LG> popups.

MS didn't realize how their technology could be misused...


LG> What  I'm  getting at is that the populace in general needs people
LG> like  Tony  and  Paul  and myself to try and keep the sanity. Most

Plase...


LG> people  on  this  list  are  more  tech savvy than the rest of the
LG> population,  and  for every user we have here on the list, we have
LG> 20 that aren't. People who won't know why enabling the download of
LG> images  can  be  a  Bad Thing (tm), or why clicking the "Go to our
LG> website to validate your bank account" links almost never take you
LG> to  your  bank, or why Nigerian scams are just that, scams. People
LG> are  *still*  getting sucked into those scams. How long have those
LG> been around? Forever. But they still get people.

Make an easy mode for 'rookie' users and a Power mode for power users.


LG> People talk about applications nannying them. I agree, for us, the
LG> people  in  the know, hate it. I hate it. But you tell me a viable
LG> way to protect those not in the know and I'll go along with it.

You  don't really convince me that you hate that. In fact, you seem to
like  it alot.

I  like  to be able to do everything and then choose what I don't want
to do just because I want to not because I can't.


LG> People  in  general  do  need  to be protected from themselves. It
LG> makes  it rough on those of us in the know, but if it means my mom
LG> and  dad are protected I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of so-called
LG> "functionality" to do that.

I  disagree.  That sort of speak is good for the "big brother watching
you".


-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

Editing is a rewording activity.



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :

LG> If  it's  an e-mail function, then go for it. I'd just much rather
LG> have   RITLabs   sink   200  hours  into  IMAP  rather  than  HTML
LG> functionality. IMAP belongs to e-mail, HTML doesn't.

It's part of the new era. RITLabs surely won't straighten up the usage
of  email,  they  must  go  along with the major players and the major
players do have GOOD HTML support.


LG> is  RITLabs going to get it right without dedicating ungodly hours
LG> to  it.  Hours  which  could  be  spent on IMAP, plugin API etc. I
LG> remember  saying ages ago, that I would like to see the plugin API
LG> really  fleshed out, and then people could write an HTML plugin if
LG> they wanted.

If  I  had  the  same  attitude that a few other showed up I would say
something like "I don't use IMAP, I don't care if it has bugs or not I
rather have HTML rendered correctly" but I find both things important.


-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

Mental tangibility has been achieved...go figure.



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :

A> Hi Paul,
A>  On 27/2/2005 6:21 AM, you wrote:

A> At  least  not  for  the foreseeable future. Most clients with very
A> good  HTML mail displaying capabilities either use the IE rendering
A> engine  or  are  part of an established browser, i.e., Operamail or
A> Mozilla/ThunderBird.

It's  really  easy  then.  They could provide us users a way to choose
between  the HTML internal engine or the IE engine. That way, everyone
would be happy! :)

-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

Robot:  Your plastic pal who's fun to be with.



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

2/27/2005  8:20 AM

Hi Mary,

On 2/27/2005 Mary Bull wrote:


MB> This is so that I can protect myself from inadvertently putting a
MB> graphics image into a message-text bodyin the View Folder window.

MB> I am just one old-lady user. But I think perhaps there are others with
MB> my needs using TB!, or out there as potential users, and it would be
MB> so simple to respect this need of mine by having the capability OFF by
MB> Default.

MB> I have, in the past, actually been distracted and clicked Send, on the
MB> warning box that comes before a message is Sent, without intending to.
MB> At a computer screen, even the best of us make mistakes, I think. I'd
MB> like for the individual user to be able to choose, in regard to this
MB> particular functionality, the amount of risk for mistakes that the
MB> user is comfortable with.

MB> Note, however, that I do not object to others accepting more risk than
MB> I do. :)

Agreed. Gee-whiz functionality at the expense of privacy and security
is too high of a price for me to pay. I do object to others taking
risks if doing so has an impact on others. Irresponsibility begins as
soon we allow our actions to negatively affect someone else.

-- 
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

2/27/2005  6:29 AM

Hi Mic,

On 2/27/2005 Mic Cullen wrote:

MC> If you have even a vague clue as to what you are doing, that statement is
MC> utterly false.

My monitor only shows 96 dpi, what is yours?

-- 
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

2/27/2005  6:19 AM

Hi Leif,

On 2/26/2005 Leif Gregory wrote:

LG> Happy Tony? Now you drug me into this! :-)

Very well said!

-- 
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[NetVicious]

sábado, 26 feb 2005 at 18:55, it seems you wrote:

> That would be fine with me.  Even just a checkbox in the prefs to
> enable/disable the button's fuctionality and include/remove it from the
> toolbar would be fine with me.  In fact, it's a very good idea to make
> it inactive completely unless someone wants to make it active.

What about a messagebox with a confirmation as TB does now when trying
to open an attachment?

-- 
  /\/ Using The Bat! 3.0.2.10 Professional
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Moderator of Spanish TBUDL
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Roger Phillips]

Hello Tony,

Saturday, February 26, 2005, 10:12:08 PM, among other things, you wrote:

TB>  Er no, I want The Bat as it is with all the bugs ironed out before any
TB>  completely new untested extras are added.

TB>  We've had this discussion in the past a dozen times, why add new things
TB>  that will introduce a plethora of new bugs before the old ones are sorted?

You've  written  a  lot lately on this thread, but this message really
gets to the the crux of the matter.

I  don't  use  IMAP  at  all,  but sorting this should be of paramount
importance from the point of view of marketing.

HTML  I  only  use  very  rarely  for  special circumstances. As it is
installed  now  it  is  adequate for everything except graphics and as
others have pointed out there is a very simple work around for viewing
them.   Putting  this  capability into TB should IMHO be well down the
list  of priorities.


-- 
Best regards,
 Roger  

Flying with The Bat!, version 3.0.2.10, with antispam BayesIt! 0.8.0 Release,
on Windows XP, version 5 1, build 2600 and Service Pack 2   
   



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Ron Cameron]

Hello Tony!

On Saturday, February 26, 2005, 2:03 PM, you wrote:

Tony> Hello Goncalo,
Tony>  The Bat html free... Where are they all now? They've all jumped
ship and
Tony>  are now sitting firmly on the fence and it appears, I am the
only one who
Tony>  is keeping true to my original convictions.

I am who bought and use the Bat because it didn't have HTML support.
I hope it stays that way and yes, I do believe in change.
If i want to look at the HTML page and all the images, then I double
click and see it. To me I have had no problems... maybe  I am doing
something wrong.
I would like to see TB progress in other areas first.
Well, I am ready for all the email telling me how narrow minded I am and
I can't think.. well i do have a delete key that works...

-- 
 
IMHO
Have A Happy,
Ron Cameronmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
:usflag: :Ron_Cameron: :Flag-US-IA:
Using :tbflaga: The Bat! v3.0.2.10 :beta: on Windows XP 5.1 Build on a Pentium 
III 700 MHz with 768 MB
Percentage of spam email in the last 24 hours = 5



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


TB> Hello Goncalo,

TB>   A reminder of what Goncalo Farias on TBBETA typed on:
TB>   26 February 2005 at 15:20:50 GMT +0100

GF>> Users  like  you  are of big prejudice for business, scaring customers
GF>> away!

TB>  Boo!

AAA... :)

-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

What is the meaning of life in 50 words or less



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


TB> Hello Goncalo,

TB>   A reminder of what Goncalo Farias on TBBETA typed on:
TB>   26 February 2005 at 15:17:47 GMT +0100

GF>> They  want an enhanced version with what other clients have best,
GF>> you  seem  to  want  a client tailored to your personal needs and
GF>> tastes!

TB> Er no, I want The Bat as it is with all the bugs ironed out before
TB> any completely new untested extras are added.

TB> We've  had  this discussion in the past a dozen times, why add new
TB> things  that  will introduce a plethora of new bugs before the old
TB> ones are sorted?

I  agree  with you completely on this! I already expressed that too on
the   list!   The   difference   seems  to  be that I define this HTML
support as buggy and you don't.

I  don't  really  care much for the images links to show but I do care
for  malformed  pages,  images  pasted  directly  to  HTML emails that
disappear even though the email size clearly shows that the images are
there (but not interpreted) etc etc...


-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

Lao-tze of Borg: Be like water. Water does not resist.



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


TB> Hello Goncalo,

TB>   A reminder of what Goncalo Farias on TBBETA typed on:
TB>   26 February 2005 at 15:11:53 GMT +0100

GF>> Is  it too much to have an option to enable full HTML support?

TB> I'm going to make one last comment on this subject. For years most
TB> people on this list have in the past voiced *very* strong opinions
TB> about keeping The Bat html free... Where are they all now? They've
TB> all  jumped  ship  and  are now sitting firmly on the fence and it
TB> appears,  I  am  the  only  one who is keeping true to my original
TB> convictions.

There  is a word for that... err... what was it... er.. ah, EVOLUTION!
:)

Kidding! Now seriously, it's a need, it's not fashion or something...



-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

Sex's evil, evil's sin, sin's forgiven, so let it begin!



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Cees]

Het was op zaterdag 26 februari 2005 om 21:03 uur dat jij iets schreef over 
'html whitelist wish' :

Hallo Tony,
  
GF>> Is  it too much to have an option to enable full HTML support?

TB>  I'm going to make one last comment on this subject. For years most people
TB>  on this list have in the past voiced *very* strong opinions about keeping
TB>  The Bat html free... Where are they all now? They've all jumped ship and
TB>  are now sitting firmly on the fence and it appears, I am the only one who
TB>  is keeping true to my original convictions.

 Uh  I  just  sent my opinion to the list.. wait a couple of seconds.

 I'm on YOUR side. ;)

-- 
groeten, 
 Cees

Clinton could screw-up an IRON ball!!

The Bat! 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha [A12F0392] running on Windows XP 5.1 build 2600 
Service Pack 2



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Dennis Hays]

Hello Mary,

Saturday, February 26, 2005, 11:52:12 AM, you wrote:

> Hello David!

> On Saturday, February 26, 2005, 10:33 AM, you wrote:

>>> The perfect option will be a button or something to load the images of
>>> the current mail. And this should be made manually every time.

--snipped--

> Are we getting close to consensus here? If so, please meet me on TBOT
> for some more savory pecan recipes. :)

TB!'s history has been one of penultimate user configuration. As long
as the default is as Nancy Reagan waould say, "Just say No", then I
wouldn't see why anyone would object. In this instance, the user puts
himself/herself at risk, if wanted. I have no objection.

Dennis


  -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
 Dennis Hays / HaysDesign
 http://www.haysdesign.com
 Sent on Saturday, February 26, 2005 at 11:58 AM USA Eastern
 -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
 ICQ: 200045507 / AIM: edennishays 
 yahoo: dennishays / Jabber: dennishays



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/26/2005 Thomas Fernandez wrote:

PVN>> They can selectively download attachments when circumstances
PVN>> warrant it on a case by case basis. If the configuration files
PVN>> are made inaccessible to the user so they are protected from
PVN>> themselves,

TF> Please do not protect *me* from myself. I do not take well to
TF> nannying. If I cause a problem to my system by downloading images, it
TF> will be my own fault and I will have to deal with it. TB is an email
TF> client for grown-ups.



2/26/2005  10:59 AM

Hi Thomas,

Sorry that you saw the need to remove this from your reply;

PVN>> ...themselves, and, none of this stuff is turned on by
PVN>> default, I might be able to accept the built-in ability as long as
PVN>> usability and performance are not affected.

This invalidates the legitimacy of your response. TB is a client for
all people, even those who choose to modify the facts. I hope this is
not representative of all the "grown-ups."

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/26/2005 David Calvarese wrote:

DC> All we want is the option to be able to view it correctly
DC> withough having to use a web browser, thus letting us reply to it if we
DC> need/want to.



2/26/2005  10:57 AM

Hi David,

I have never been challenged to reply to an HTML message. What is the
problem?

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/26/2005 Mic Cullen wrote:

MC> But as an analogy, that's one of the most ridiculous I've seen. Ever.

2/26/2005  10:51 AM

Hi Mic,

Seems right at home with some others that were offered.

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Cees]

Het was op zaterdag 26 februari 2005 om 16:30 uur dat jij iets schreef over 
'html whitelist wish' :

Hallo Thomas,
  
 
___\/___
  o/\o
 
TF> Please do not protect *me* from myself. I do not take well to
TF> nannying. If I cause a problem to my system by downloading images, it
TF> will be my own fault and I will have to deal with it. TB is an email
TF> client for grown-ups.

 Amen to THAT!

 btw,  what has happened to all the shortcuts? As I recall shift+spacebar was
 the  combination  for  quicktemplates.  Why did all the combinations we were
 used to have to change or just plain vanish?

-- 
regards,
 Cees

Scully, you are the ONLY one I trust - Mulder (3x23)
__
The Bat! 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha [A12F0392] running on Windows XP 5.1 build 2600 
Service Pack 2



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avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2004 ALWIL Software.
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 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[NetVicious]

sábado, 26 feb 2005 at 16:39, it seems you wrote:

> We are not talking about this. We are talking about the *option* of
> whitelisting newsletters individually for download of images. The
> option will be turned off by default, and who wants to whitelist any
> address does it on his own risk. I sincerely do not understand your
> objections.

The problem here it's this:

Spammer   A   sends  a  spam-mail  to  you  with  the  from  email  as
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  In  your  TB! you have this address in the
whitelist of downloading images.

The  mail has a transparent image from a php file with a serial number
linked in a database with your mail.

Now  the  spammer  knows  you  email account it's readed, and you hace
read the spam mail.

The perfect option will be a button or something to load the images of
the current mail. And this should be made manually every time.

-- 
  /\/ Using The Bat! 3.0.2.10 Professional
 /  \  / \  / Windows XP (5.1.2600 Service Pack 1)
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      Last 24 hour Spam% it's 56%
Moderator of Spanish TBUDL
Spanish Translation Coordinator of The Bat!







 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


DC>> :) And at the moment, I AM using Thunderbird and not TB!.

TB> In that case join a thunderbird list and don't come on here saying
TB> Thunderbird  can  do  this and Thunderbird can do that. If html is
TB> THE  ONLY  thing  The Bat can't do compared to all the others then
TB> bugger off and tell the Thunderbird list that.

Users  like  you  are of big prejudice for business, scaring customers
away!


-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

I think a SysOp Needs Nine Lives - I need ten.



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


TB> Hello David,

TB>   A reminder of what David Calvarese on TBBETA typed on:
TB>   25 February 2005 at 20:39:45 GMT +0100

DC>> Poco might be missing a lot of the advanced features... But it at least
DC>> has all the basics

TB> So has a pencil and paper.

TB> What fascinates me is all these newcomers come on here singing the praises
TB> of all these other crap email clients but they still want to use The Bat,
TB> why?

They  want  an enhanced version with what other clients have best, you
seem to want a client tailored to your personal needs and tastes!

-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

One on-topic post a day keeps the moderator at bay.



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


TB> Hello David,

TB>   A reminder of what David Calvarese on TBBETA typed on:
TB>   25 February 2005 at 19:39:29 GMT +0100

DC>> Someone  on this list called Pocomail a 'child's toy', but it's a
DC>> child's  toy  that  has basic functionality that TB! is currently
DC>> lacking

TB> And  the reason TB is lacking it is because it's taken us years of
TB> campaigning to keep it that way.

No comments!

TB> I don't see why your so adamant to get full html support. You keep
TB> comparing  TB  to  all  these other email clients, if they're that
TB> good and do what you want then use one of them.

Because  you're  not  alone in the world and definitely TB! is NOT the
only email client and text mode is NOT the only mode to send emails.


TB> Incredimail  does  html  pretty well, it's crap at everything else
TB> but it'll do what your asking.

That's  not the point, is it? Why must others have a lame html support
just to satisfy a few ones?

Is  it too much to have an option to enable full HTML support? Is your
opinion  so  well  supported  to  be imposed to the wide majority that
doesn't  subscribe  the  beta  list  but would really like to have the
full HTML suport?


-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

Word Perfect Support can't be beat!



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Cees]

Het was op zaterdag 26 februari 2005 om 12:30 uur dat jij iets schreef over 
'html whitelist wish' :

Hallo Tony,
  
TB> Hello Tim,

TB>   A reminder of what Tim Casten on TBBETA typed on:
TB>   26 February 2005 at 12:16:42 GMT +0100

TC>> Don't give rit any ideas..Please!

TB>  Why not, pretty pictures one minute, realistic mooing, meowing and
TB>  cock-a-doodle-do sounds the next, what more could one want? :)




-- 
groeten, 
 Cees

In Tennessee it is illegal to use a lasso to catch a fish.

The Bat! 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha [A12F0392] running on Windows XP 5.1 build 2600 
Service Pack 2



---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0508-3, 25-02-2005
Tested on: 26-2-2005 14:23:35
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2004 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Ethan J. Mings]

Saturday, February 26, 2005, 5:48:47 AM, you wrote:

A>> Of course, if someone were to tell you that templates are for the
A>> lazy, you'd say they didn't know what they were talking about,
A>> wouldn't you?

>  OK, I concede defeat, go ahead, Incredibat here we come :)

If I remember correctly, the next beta is due out early next week. It
will be interesting to test and see what has been fixed and what is
still needing to be fixed.

In the meantime, if people really want other features (e.g., HTML etc)
there are other products on the market.  Why not use them and let's
stay focused on seeing what the next beta will really look like under
beta testing.

As an aside, one of the emerging trends here is that HTML messages are
being replaced by PORTALS where people log in, check their messages,
complete action items and log out.  The focus is on reducing e-mail
and providing an online place where people can keep track of
assignments, activities and results.  If anything, people want less
e-mail in their busy lives regardless if its text, HTML or IMAP!

Just an observation from my small corner of the world.

Jerry

-- 
Ethan J. Mings
Principal, The Desk



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


TB> Hello The,

TB>   A reminder of what The Final Cut on TBBETA typed on:
TB>   25 February 2005 at 12:37:15 GMT +0100

TFC>> You must be kidding to think ppl would have to switch to another
TFC>> email client if thebat download images from web

TB>  Must I? Why not ask them!
TB>  Your new to this list so you don't know the past 4 years history of this 
subject.

Well,  I guess this page definitely doesn't cover ALL registered users
NOR  all  the important registered users or their needs. For instance,
for home email TB! gives me no trouble but when it come to the company
email,  where everybody uses MS Outlook and send them through Exchange
servers, I can't really tell why but a different sort of bugs arise:

1. Aditional white line are added.

2.  square  symbols  show  up  (I believe those squares are TABs but I
really can't tell.)

3.  Images pasted directly to the HTML email (Outlook) don't showup in
TB!  but in same cases when that same message is replied by one of the
OutLook  recipients  the original BMP shows up as ole0.bmp. Why wasn't
it there in the first place?


TFC>> Well that will make me keep Thunderbird and forget to buy a license of
TFC>> thebat for my wife and I

TB> So your using a non registered version then? Strange as it identifies here
TB> as being registered. By your own admission you must be using an illegal
TB> cracked copy.

For his wife...


-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

Wit and wisdom are rarely seen together.



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Tim Casten]

Hello Tony,

Saturday, February 26, 2005, 5:48:47 AM, you wrote:

>  Incredibat here we come :

Don't give rit any ideas..Please!  :)

-- 
Best regards,
 Tim



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/25/2005 Allie wrote:

A> Furthermore, if
A> TB! loaded the images, what would make it compromise the machine more
A> than if Opera were to load those same images?


2/25/2005  9:09 PM

Hi Allie,

If you must click on an icon and wait for a browser to load there is
opportunity to think about your action. On the other hand, since most
people do not even remember lunch it is easy to forget that the images
are loading automatically until there is a problem. I much prefer to
make the choice on a case by case basis. Also, some of those I work
with have a 300 baud shortwave radio connection for email or a 7500
cell phone connection costing 4.5 cents/min. They surely do not want
HTML nor do they need it. They can selectively download attachments
when circumstances warrant it on a case by case basis. If the
configuration files are made inaccessible to the user so they are
protected from themselves, and, none of this stuff is turned on by
default, I might be able to accept the built-in ability as long as
usability and performance are not affected.

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/25/2005 AC Martin wrote:

AM> BTW, if the neophyte is curious about TB! not loading images, they'll
AM> ask us and we'd be the first to tell them to *simply* open the message
AM> in their browser, leaving them at risk, even if we warn them. :)

2/25/2005  8:12 PM

Hi AC,

Speak for yourself. Those I work with are using Opera and have some
instruction in responsible internet usage. It in their ignorance that
most problems occur. In a majority of cases the images in the HTML
messages I receive are superfluous eye candy.

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Goncalo Farias]

In reply to  :


TB> Hello The,

TB>   A reminder of what The Final Cut on TBBETA typed on:
TB>   24 February 2005 at 22:38:25 GMT +0100

TFC>> wow that's sad to see thebat users to closed mind

TB>  Nothing to do with closed minds. Most people on here chose TB!
TB>  specifically because of it's inability to handle html. You go changing
TB>  that and everyone will have to find another client.

Really?  I'm  not  included  in  that  list!  I  would like to see TB!
display HTML emails correctly



-- 
Best regards,
Goncalo Farias

THIS IS NOT A TAGLINE  It's just a stupid statement...



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/25/2005 David Calvarese wrote:

DC>  We just want the option to be able to click
DC> a button and have it display them if we want it too.  And possibly being
DC> able to tag an address in the address book to 'Display Remote Images' or
DC> even 'Trust HTML email from people in your address book', though both of
DC> those have dangers to them.

2/25/2005  4:16 PM

Hi David,

You already have the button to click...it's called an icon that shows
on the left side of the message display.

What will you do when a worm hijacks your dear grandmother and begins
sending HTML trash which your e-mail client gladly opens because you
told it you trust your grandmother? Ay yi yi!!

In war, love, sports and email the best defense is an offense. TB is
defensive because of its offensive design. Please get in your T-bird
and ride into the sunset. No more do we want to hear drivel on how to
screw a Bat!

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/25/2005 David Calvarese wrote:

DC> Someone on this list called Pocomail a 'child's toy', but it's a child's
DC> toy that has basic functionality that TB! is currently lacking.  Both
DC> the HTML/Image issue as well as (IIRC) proper IMAP support.

2/25/2005  2:25 PM

Hi David,

Conversely, POCO is missing much of TB's functionality and has had
perpetual stability issues.

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/25/2005 Dennis Hays wrote:

DH> What we all have in common, on this list, are the reasons we
DH> originally came to TB! And, from a marketing point of view,
DH> these have to be respected. I don't think most of us looked at
DH> this product because of its fine HTML viewer.


2/25/2005  2:27 PM

Hi Dennis,

How true!

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/25/2005 Dave Gorman wrote:

DG> Granted, there are many end users who will not know the ramifications of
DG> their choices. Buy why should my computing experience be diminished or
DG> made more inconvenient for no reason other than to prevent the stupid
DG> users from screwing things up?



2/25/2005  2:19 PM

Hi Dave,

Unless you are forced to use a program under duress you have choices.
Let's allow each of to be free to make those choices. Maybe someday
you will have the privilege of supporting many types of users in many
different cultures and gain an understanding of the importance to not
put the opportunity to be inappropriate in front of the user.

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/25/2005 Richard Wakeford wrote:


RW> someone. Alright, there are many people out there who don't know how to
RW> do that but I want my pictures in my camera to be of the highest quality
RW> possible thank you :-)


2/25/2005  11:00 AM

Hi Richard,

A 1600x1200 picture reduced to 320x240 for viewing in a newsletter
will look worse than the same picture taken at 640x480. Why waste the
resources for an inferior product?

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/25/2005 Mark Partous wrote:

MP> You silly boy, the group of long-time users said, you don't know what you
MP> are talking about.

MP> And at the end of another day of nice driving in their beloved old car, all
MP> went to sleep in their bed.

MP> Not without opening the doors of their car of course!  :-)


2/25/2005  10:42 AM

Hi Mark,

I'm curious. What do you say to the people who have a dead 2 year-old
who strangled himself by pressing the up button on the window with his
knee because his dad forgot to set the window lock?

If features are irrelevant why are there so many types of cars
available?

Give me the ability to prevent the user from changing the settings
_and_ make the choices available during the setup process and maybe...

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/25/2005 Mark Partous wrote:

MP> Content : one company logo and a table of values, 2 pages in total.
MP> Size: 912 kb.

MP> After reformating by me : 54 kb. with a minimal loss of quality (if one 
looks
MP> carefully, it can be seen in the logo).


2/25/2005  9:14 AM

Hi Mark,

HTML messages will not heal this major ignorance. It is a similar
problem to someone using a 1600x1200 picture in a small part of a
letter. I try to educate these people. Some are willing, some not.
Just this week I received a one page letter with a small picture
created in M$ word that was 2.29 mb! I reformatted it in OpenOffice
and it was only 66k. Even though this person was in a foreign country
I had them download Irfanview and then called last night to explain
how to resize and enhance the picture. As long as software developers
and camera makers insist on defaulting to total bloat this problem
will exist. At least with a large attachment I can choose to download
it. With HTML messages I have no choice if I need to know the content
and I make myself vulnerable in the process.

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/25/2005 Dave Gorman wrote:

DG> unusability of any of these. Outhouse and Outhouse Express especially
DG> are in a class of their own when it comes to bloat and security flaws.
True, the outs are in a class by themselves. However, Thunderbird
emulates more of the "look & feel" of the outs than I care for. Also,
its editor is primitive compared to MicroEd.

DG> I do like TBird's *optional* downloading of HTML images and proper
DG> display of HTML formatted emails. Some of the newsletters and so forth
DG> that I receive by email are actually readable without having to open
DG> them in the browser! And since it is *optional*, I am not by default
DG> opening myself to the security risks of downloading any and all images.
I work almost exclusively with neophyte users all over the world.
Having this option is one way for the ignorant to become vulnerable.
Most of my subscriptions have a text only option which I use
exclusively. When your internet access is paid for by the minute the
typically 1/5 size of a text message pays dividends.

DG> However, when it comes to TB, usable IMAP is far more important to me
DG> than anything to do with HTML. If we want to talk about unusable IMAP,
DG> TB truly is without peers among MUA's that claim to support IMAP!
I understand. However, virtually all the people I support do not have
IMAP as an option, nor is it desirable in most instances.

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/25/2005 The Final Cut wrote:


TFC> 3. peers? show me some and your sources



2/25/2005  7:34 AM

Hi The,

Eudora, OE, Outlook, etc.

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/25/2005 The Final Cut wrote:

TFC> You must be kidding to think ppl would have to switch to
TFC> another email client if thebat download images from web.

TFC> As mentionned _many_ times, that would work with a
TFC> whitelist and the most important, the option would be disabled by
TFC> default.

2/25/2005  6:44 AM

Hi The,

Some day you will experience circumstances that change your mind.
Until then please continue using Thunderbird and allow TB to be what
it was designed to be...a very powerful _and_ secure email client.
Thunderbird has many peers. The Bat! has none! We do not want your
ideas to destroy that!

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Paul Van Noord]

On 2/25/2005 Tony Boom wrote:

TFC>> wow that's sad to see thebat users to closed mind

TB>  Nothing to do with closed minds. Most people on here chose TB!
TB>  specifically because of it's inability to handle html. You go changing
TB>  that and everyone will have to find another client.


2/25/2005  4:27 AM

Hi Tony,

Amen! Very well put and expresses my opinion exactly! If formatting is
necessary, create a PDF and send as an attachment. I work with people
all around the world and TB is a primary tool to maintain their
ability to exist in their conditions without harassment or threat to
their lives.

Please Maxim do not corrupt TB with the same junk as Outlook/OE and the
wannabes like Thunderbird.

--
Take Care,
Paul

The Bat! v.3.0.2.10 on Win2k SP4 



 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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Re[2]: html whitelist wish

[Cees]

Het was op donderdag 24 februari 2005 om 22:18 uur dat jij iets schreef over 
'html whitelist wish' :

Hallo Peter,
  
PM> PLEASE, not again. We have had this for so many times over and over.
TFC>> I really hope this will be implemented in thebat so we can
TFC>> see mailing list in html format.
PM> I don't. Use a browser if you need content that wasn't sent along with
PM> the message. The Bat! is an email client, not a browser. And I don't
PM> want her to be.

 AMEN to that!

 If you want THAT kinda crap... use that bitch that's called Outlook Express!
 Let's  keep  TheBat!  the decent email client it is and NOT change it into a
 Microsoft Monster.
 
-- 
regards,
 Cees

Let's face it: I'm a ghost, you're a witch, he's a fallen angel; anything's 
possible! - from: Hex

The Bat! 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha [A12F0392] running on Windows XP 5.1 build 2600 
Service Pack 2

pgpvJvCZtrDk0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

 Current beta is 3.0.9.1 Deep Alpha | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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